Eastgate Quarters Development [Archive] - Page 2

ls12

July 20th, 2006, 01:38 PM

In todays YEP,

City's £700m retail masterplan submitted
A MULTI-million pound retail masterplan that would bring a John Lewis department store to Leeds has taken a significant step forward.

An artist's impression.
The developers behind the proposed £700m transformation of the city centre around Eastgate, the Headrow and Lady Lane today confirmed they had submitted a bid for outline planning permission for their scheme.
If successful, the project would create up to 5,000 jobs.
The one million sq ft area earmarked for the facelift would become home to two department stores, including a John Lewis's to rival the company's branches in London's Oxford Street and Manchester's Trafford Centre.
Homes
It would also boast more than 100 smaller shops, as well as 600 homes and 2,700 car parking spaces.
Planners say a range of galleries, civic squares and cafes would give the development a classy European feel.
If all goes smoothly, building work could get under way by early 2008 with a view to completion in 2011.
Welcoming news of the application, Leeds City Council's deputy leader, Coun Andrew Carter, said: "This redevelopment will help Leeds maintain its standing as a major retail and economic centre."
The Eastgate and Harewood Quarter proposals have been submitted by the Leeds Partnership, a joint venture between Hammerson UK Properties and Town Centre Securities.
Hammerson's Rob Hancox said today: "Leeds needs to be able to compete with its European counterparts.
"This scheme will add a quarter again to the size of the city centre."
Ann Humphries, retail development director at John Lewis, said: "We are delighted to have found the right location to serve Leeds.
"We know that many customers already visit our department stores, and we are excited at the prospect of providing them with a John Lewis closer to home."
If council chiefs give the bid for outline permission the thumbs-up, more detailed plans will still have to be approved before construction can begin.
20 July 2006

onix

July 20th, 2006, 03:26 PM

di Livio

July 20th, 2006, 03:32 PM

Trinity Quarter was supposed to start back in 2000 and still no sign of it.

Lady Lane
http://www.leedstoday.net/getEdFrontImage.aspx?ImageID=364882

Leeds No.1

July 20th, 2006, 05:14 PM

The last report was that the Trinity Quarter should start right about now; July 2006. But still, don't really know what to say about that as it quite clearly hasn't started.

As for the Harewood Quarter, well I've never seen that artists impression before but it looks good. Hope its underway in 2008!

JOliver

July 21st, 2006, 03:59 PM

Yes looks like timescales slip another year, their current Web site says:

"Subject to outline planning permission being granted, the detailed design of the scheme will be drawn up, with an aim to start work onsite in early 2008. It is estimated that the scheme will be completed in 2011."

Bugger, this is the development Leeds needs the most I would say (out of all currently proposed).

Leeds No.1

July 21st, 2006, 06:20 PM

I agree, but I suppose its good that its even moving.

Fred2

July 21st, 2006, 08:19 PM

>>>>Bugger, this is the development Leeds needs the most I would say (out of all currently proposed) .>>>>>

And to think that it could have been up and running if the planning committee had not decided to choose the present dilatory developer.

JOliver

July 21st, 2006, 08:46 PM

Fred2

July 23rd, 2006, 01:58 AM

What choices they had at the time, if you happen to remember?

Can't remember the exact details now, but I believe a scheme by the then owners of the Leeds Plaza Centre was rejected in favour of the present developers. I think the rejected scheme was slightly less ambitious than the one we now await, but Trinity would have already been open if it had been chosen.
I can't judge the relative merits of both schemes and it could be that the council was right to choose the present scheme - but there has certainly been a very long delay for some reason. It is essential for the reputation of Leeds as a prime shopping city that this and the Harewood/Eastgate schemes are built as quickly as possible.

di Livio

July 23rd, 2006, 03:10 PM

The TOPS estates scheme was described by the Civic Trust as a 'dumbed down' version of the Miralles/Stanley Bragg/Lend Lease scheme, involving the re-cladding of the abominable Saville House and Burton Arcade.

The last we heard of the Trinity Quarter was in Janurary when a notice went up on Commercial Street about a public meeting at the Town Hall.

aviator

July 23rd, 2006, 06:00 PM

Can't remember the exact details now, but I believe a scheme by the then owners of the Leeds Plaza Centre was rejected in favour of the present developers. I think the rejected scheme was slightly less ambitious than the one we now await, but Trinity would have already been open if it had been chosen.
I can't judge the relative merits of both schemes and it could be that the council was right to choose the present scheme - but there has certainly been a very long delay for some reason. It is essential for the reputation of Leeds as a prime shopping city that this and the Harewood/Eastgate schemes are built as quickly as possible.

The scheme as we currently have it is the original proposal as submitted by the Universities Superannuation Scheme and their partners (name escapes me). TOPS Estates then submitted a rival proposal as a spoiler; bear in mind that this was for a site they didn't actually own. So, the city council had two proposals on the table, one of which they supported as having been worked up over some time in partnership with USS, the other of which came from nowhere, so to speak.

Then we had the fun and games of two rival public presentations within days of each other. I went to both and the TOPS one was, in my opinion, pants. The USS one, as far as I can recall it, had the merits of the Miralles glazed roof, the fact that it was trying to restore some of the vanished streetlines in that area, and the fact that they'd taken proper account of the lovely Holy Trinity Church on Boar Lane.

I can't remember if both applicatiuons got planning permission but, obviously USS were in the stronger position as they actually owned the site. There were some issues about potential CPO, at which point TOPS went to law.

You can begin to see why the whole thing has been so protracted...........

JOliver

July 23rd, 2006, 06:24 PM

I thought these unfortunate events happend to the Trinity Quarter, not Harewood/Eastgate?

Fred2

July 23rd, 2006, 06:26 PM

There were some issues about potential CPO, at which point TOPS went to law.

You can begin to see why the whole thing has been so protracted...........

Well no. I think it is quite a long time since the issue was settled and still no start on the scheme.

onix

July 23rd, 2006, 10:36 PM

Subliving

July 23rd, 2006, 10:56 PM

Well, in fairness, it's a huge project. Would you prefer it to be rushed and suck, or wait a year longer, and have an excellent development that is an asset to the city. I really don't agree with rushing things jsut to get it done, rather than waiting, planning and getting it right.

Subliving.

onix

July 24th, 2006, 04:14 PM

Subliving

July 24th, 2006, 04:52 PM

i know but its just such a long wait. just a bit disapointed.

I guess I'd just prefer to see them get it right. Expecially on such a huge development. The only completed large-scale development in Leeds which can really compare in terms of size and location is the Merrion Centre (which if you look on Google Earth is almost the size of the Harewood Eastgate Quarter), and I doubt many people here have a great affection towards that monstrosity.

I want them to get such a huge project right, because I don't want to look back in 30 years time and wish to god that the planners had spent a little while longer on the details.

Subliving.

jimbo

July 24th, 2006, 10:20 PM

I guess I'd just prefer to see them get it right. Expecially on such a huge development. The only completed large-scale development in Leeds which can really compare in terms of size and location is the Merrion Centre (which if you look on Google Earth is almost the size of the Harewood Eastgate Quarter), and I doubt many people here have a great affection towards that monstrosity.

I want them to get such a huge project right, because I don't want to look back in 30 years time and wish to god that the planners had spent a little while longer on the details.

Subliving.

absolutely. Remember the masterplanner of Harewood/Eastgate is Terry Farrell who was responsible for Quarry House......... better to get the scheme right. There shouldn't be any of the conflicting developer issues as witnessed in the Trinity Quarter unless Hammersons and TCS fall out, which doesn't make sense as its a joint venture which spreads a bit of the development risk in the first place.

a few other issues, the site is huge, contains a mix of light industrial, commercial, retail and residential. The main issue is that CPO (compulsory purchases orders) are required from the council so the developers can buy out all other interested landowners which range from whoever owns the car park space (maybe NCP?), the individual shop units along the top of Vicar Lane, and individual residents who own apartments in the bookends. Its all a rather long term plan, but I'm sure that the timescale was always for a 2008 start. That's not too, bad and lets face it we've got Lumiere virtually locked on for the start of next year which should keep us occupied!

onix, just think, you might be old enough to have an alcoholic drink by the time they break ground. Or perhaps open John Lewis. hmmmm. :scouserd: :)

Subliving

July 24th, 2006, 10:37 PM

absolutely. Remember the masterplanner of Harewood/Eastgate is Terry Farrell who was responsible for Quarry House......... better to get the scheme right. There shouldn't be any of the conflicting developer issues as witnessed in the Trinity Quarter unless Hammersons and TCS fall out, which doesn't make sense as its a joint venture which spreads a bit of the development risk in the first place.

a few other issues, the site is huge, contains a mix of light industrial, commercial, retail and residential. The main issue is that CPO (compulsory purchases orders) are required from the council so the developers can buy out all other interested landowners which range from whoever owns the car park space (maybe NCP?), the individual shop units along the top of Vicar Lane, and individual residents who own apartments in the bookends. Its all a rather long term plan, but I'm sure that the timescale was always for a 2008 start. That's not too, bad and lets face it we've got Lumiere virtually locked on for the start of next year which should keep us occupied!

onix, just think, you might be old enough to have an alcoholic drink by the time they break ground. Or perhaps open John Lewis. hmmmm. :scouserd: :)

I just hope to god they don't make it all with the same design. The way I see it is that each building is individual. Schemes in which every building looks the same date very quickly. As I mentioned before, large-scale schemes like Merrion, Trinity, Headrow and to some extent St John date extremely quickly. Contrary to this, schemes such as Briggate, in which each building is individual (yes I know they weren't all built at the same time) can appeal to everyone, as they have something for everyone.

I think you'll know what I'm saying, but I'm not putting it very well... someone care to put it better for me?

Subliving.

jimbo

July 24th, 2006, 10:45 PM

I just hope to god they don't make it all with the same design. The way I see it is that each building is individual. Schemes in which every building looks the same date very quickly. As I mentioned before, large-scale schemes like Merrion, Trinity, Headrow and to some extent St John date extremely quickly. Contrary to this, schemes such as Briggate, in which each building is individual (yes I know they weren't all built at the same time) can appeal to everyone, as they have something for everyone.

I think you'll know what I'm saying, but I'm not putting it very well... someone care to put it better for me?

Subliving.

largescale masterplans like Brindley Place in Brum and Paternoster Square in London can seem samey, dull, bland, monotonous and identikit?

Sort of agree (I eat lunch in Paternoster Square most days), and I think its symptomatic of a huge brand new development - the issue being most of it is new, shiny, clad in interesting mix of colours and facades with funky glass etc, which might seem somewhat anathema and overbearing in one big lump to the city centre of Leeds with its classic arcades and Broderick designed grandiose buildings........(think I have been a little effusive on that one, but something along those lines maybe subliving?).

Harewood / Eastgate, if they retain and integrate part of the bookends and the church / chinese supermarket can succeed in a similar manner to the fantastic conversion and new build of the Leeds Perm buildings, now the Light. I think you need a little heritage included within massive new build schemes etc, gives them a little more character IMO.

Subliving

July 24th, 2006, 10:50 PM

largescale masterplans like Brindley Place in Brum and Paternoster Square in London can seem samey, dull, bland, monotonous and identikit?

Sort of agree (I eat lunch in Paternoster Square most days), and I think its symptomatic of a huge brand new development - the issue being most of it is new, shiny, clad in interesting mix of colours and facades with funky glass etc, which might seem somewhat anathema and overbearing in one big lump to the city centre of Leeds with its classic arcades and Broderick designed grandiose buildings........(think I have been a little effusive on that one, but something along those lines maybe subliving?).

Harewood / Eastgate, if they retain and integrate part of the bookends and the church / chinese supermarket can succeed in a similar manner to the fantastic conversion and new build of the Leeds Perm buildings, now the Light. I think you need a little heritage included within massive new build schemes etc, gives them a little more character IMO.

Thank you, that's exactly what I'm trying to say. If you blanket a huge area with the same design, it just ages so quickly. Even the Merrion style works on a small scale, i.e. Burton at the top of Briggate. But put the same design over several acres and you've had it in terms of long-lasting design.

Subliving.

Even Flow

July 24th, 2006, 11:42 PM

I just hope to god they don't make it all with the same design. The way I see it is that each building is individual. Schemes in which every building looks the same date very quickly.

Subliving.

Individual architects firms are to design each building, and there will be a range both nationally (and possibly internationally?) from what I was told at the exhibition a few months back.
This is a very good move in my opinion and shows the developers are giving peoples concerns alot of thought.

Subliving

July 24th, 2006, 11:54 PM

Individual architects firms are to design each building, and there will be a range both nationally (and possibly internationally?) from what I was told at the exhibition a few months back.
This is a very good move in my opinion and shows the developers are giving peoples concerns alot of thought.

Thank god for that! Thank you for putting my mind to rest there. I just had the image of a huge, samey scheme that had no character or atmosphere.

Subliving.

aviator

August 4th, 2006, 01:59 PM

From today's YEP:

"Millgarth police station could be demolished as part of a £700m plan to transform the Eastgate area of the city

The YEP understands that West Yorkshire Police have been talking with Town Centre Securities, Hammerson UK Properties and Leeds City Council about the possibility of leaving Millgarth. There are fears the city centre police station will not be replaced by the cash-strapped force. Sources say negotiations are proceeding "reasonably well", although no firm decisions have been taken on the future of the site of the police station – estimated to be worth around £5m an acre.

Linda Railton, director of estates for West Yorkshire Police, said: "We have been examining for some time the policing requirement in relation to the buildings in Leeds and have been in discussion about the potential relocation of Millgarth in line with the development plans. Any relocation of the Millgarth Police Station would involve agreeing a city centre provision for policing."

As reported in the YEP earlier this year West Yorkshire Police earmarked 17 front counters for closure, including Cleckheaton, Batley, Shipley, Otley, Rothwell and Ossett, as part of moves to save the force more than £1m over the next two years. City centre residents and workers now fear that if Millgarth goes they could be left without a vital helpdesk, which is currently open 24 hours, every day.

West Yorkshire Police Federation chairman Tom McGhie, representing rank and file officers, said: "I think it's important that we still maintain a police presence in the city centre - for the people that work there and people that visit." The Leeds Partnership, a joint venture between TCS and London-based Hammerson, submitted its outline plans for the Eastgate and Harewood quarter to the council last month.

The one million sq ft area earmarked for the facelift is east of Vicar Lane to St Peter's Street, stretching from Kirkgate Market north across Eastgate to the inner ring road, with the police station within its boundaries. The plot would house two department stores, including a John Lewis's, more than 100 smaller shops, 600 homes and 2,700 parking spaces.

James Crawford, investment director at TCS, said: "It would just be better laid out and a better scheme if it included the police station - as opposed to excluded it, but that is subject to agreement." He added: "I don't think there will be too many people sad to see it removed from there - it's such a beastly building."

Millgarth Police Station, on Millgarth Street, was built more than 30 years ago and is widely regarded as a blot on the landscape - Leeds Civic Trust has described it as "arguably the ugliest building in the city". West Yorkshire Police Authority member, councillor Richard Lewis (Lab, Pudsey) said relocating would hopefully mean better provision for the police and the public. "My personal view is that Millgarth was always a monstrosity and was never a user-friendly building."

Whatever people think of its fortress-like appearance it will always hold a unique place in crime folklore as the home of the Yorkshire Ripper incident room. The investigation generated so much paperwork the floor had to be reinforced because of fears it might collapse under the weight.
04 August 2006"

Obviously there's a long way to go before the horrid abortion bites the dust and I have no great faith in the YEP's accuracy. But this is some of the best news I've heard for ages.

di Livio

August 4th, 2006, 03:23 PM

"[I][B]Millgarth police station could be demolished...

http://www.fodbold-fanatic.dk/Tardelli1982.jpg

onix

August 4th, 2006, 03:58 PM

Fred2

August 4th, 2006, 04:53 PM

they should also demolish the bus station. that is also vile.

No chance. It's only been up a few years.

di Livio

August 21st, 2006, 01:28 PM

Alphie

August 21st, 2006, 07:46 PM

These were red on the model at the exhibition. I asked the architect chap who was there about them and he said they were a part of their vision for the Headrow as a revamped boulevard. The poles were meant to suggest some sort of sculpture etc. which would mark the major junctions and 'signpost' the Headrow from vistas across the city.

...I didn't really get it either.

di Livio

August 21st, 2006, 08:27 PM

It could do without a series of spikes distracting attention from the increasing/decreasing heights on the Headrow. But some sort of sculpture on Quarry Hill would be just the ticket.

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/discover/images/20031125_550618470.jpg

Leeds No.1

August 21st, 2006, 08:55 PM

Well I think basically it means they would be landmarks that state 'THIS IS The Headrow'. Making it a class above the other streets. Probably relating to the 'Magnificent Mile' concept. Landmarks are always put at important and strategical places; in this plan at major junctions by the looks of it and on Quarry Hill- because well there wouldnt be much point in putting a landmark on a little service back street to a deserted shopping centre for example. ie people want to be able to see it. If you notice, the central landmark will be the first sight of the city centre for many people coming into Leeds, particularly by bus. An purple ray of light though would be quite a good idea I would think though!

It would attract people to The Headrow; The Headrow would be an anchor for tourists to Leeds. For example, because you can find the landmarks from anywhere (as signposts) and make ideal meeting points, it would mean people start on The Headrow and explore outwards into the rest of the centre. If that makes sense, it would basically promote The Headrow as a major location not just in Leeds, but in the north of England.

To start with, not many cities have a landmark road like The Headrow- Princes Street, Oxford Street are a few I can think of. Glamming it up would take it up a league- could attract some big retail names too.

I've always thought that Briggate had the names, but The Headrow had the atmosphere and the grandeur of a city street, but it has few major retail names on it and the attractions on it are spread out too much. People should be enticed to start at the Town Hall and work their way down to Quarry Hill- currently you get to Dortmund Square; realise there isnt much down The Headrow except Primark and bus stops so go down Lands Lane, and only cross back over The Headrow to get into Primark.

di Livio

August 21st, 2006, 09:57 PM

I've always thought that Briggate had the names, but The Headrow had the atmosphere and the grandeur of a city street, but it has few major retail names on it and the attractions on it are spread out too much. People should be enticed to start at the Town Hall and work their way down to Quarry Hill- currently you get to Dortmund Square; realise there isnt much down The Headrow except Primark and bus stops so go down Lands Lane, and only cross back over The Headrow to get into Primark.

Agreed. Replacing some of those dodgy pubs where people start drinking from 9am and the betting shops and housing advice centres with retail would be a smart move. But Leeds people are so set in their Lands Lane ways it's unbelievable.
They also need to re-pave and landscape the Headrow so that it's less of a space and more of a street. Outside Lewis's the direction of the road doesn't match the direction of the buildings. Infuriating. For me at least.

jimbo

August 21st, 2006, 10:14 PM

A closer look at the Farrells concept.

And if you do look closely you can see tall purple spikes at the junction of Vicar Lane and the Headrow and on Quarry Hill.

http://www.leeds-cityscape.co.uk/eastgate_and_Harewood_image.jpg

not only that - but look at the top of York Road - it appears that it has been turfed over! Not only that, but the Headrow has sprouted a veritable forest of trees. Its a wacky image though. Look at the large building at the top right of the site - suppose that is what they were thinking off for New York House. Instead, well, they'll get Carey Jones New York House by the look of it.

Hey ho, looking forward to the planning app. What happened to liveat27eastgate? Wonder if he got the compulsory purchase order, or bought out of his flat for a close to or above market rate. If those apartments are starting to clear, then we're clearly moving in the right direction.

Val Verde

August 21st, 2006, 10:16 PM

Agreed. Replacing some of those dodgy pubs where people start drinking from 9am and the betting shops and housing advice centres with retail would be a smart move. But Leeds people are so set in their Lands Lane ways it's unbelievable.
They also need to re-pave and landscape the Headrow so that it's less of a space and more of a street. Outside Lewis's the direction of the road doesn't match the direction of the buildings. Infuriating. For me at least.

Agreed The Headow could be one of the best streets in Britain but at present it is rather underused particularly since the demise of Lewis's (latterly Allders) and Schofields in the past fifteen years have reduced that streets role as a first tier shopping street. Also wouldn't it be a good idea if the Victoria Quarter was extended northwards to include a new entrance on The Headrow surely that would start to regenerate this area. Another interesting note is how those two empty shop units between Primark and Lloyds Bank which have been empty for at least five years and probably a lot longer has been taken on by Bose which surely is a good thing. Surely with the impending Eastgate Quarter this would see this street reinvigorated further in the future.

http://www.leeds-cityscape.co.uk/eastgate_and_Harewood_image.jpg

As for the Eastgate Quarter is the blue shop shown on the middle of the picture the proposed location for the second flagship that was intended to be Selfridges but would probably be someone else since they stopped their UK expansion. Any tips for who this would be which I guess could be a relocation from Briggate for House of Fraser whose building on Briggate are rather small as opposed to other branches in other major cities or maybe it could be someone like Fenwicks perhaps or maybe even a foreign department store chain? Should be good looking forward to this development however would hope they would include a decent size square and a new railway station that I mentioned earlier to serve this development.

Smoggie_Si

August 21st, 2006, 10:47 PM

Another interesting note is how those two empty shop units between Primark and Lloyds Bank which have been empty for at least five years and probably a lot longer has been taken on by Bose which surely is a good thing.

Excellent a bit of much needed class for Eastgate. I trust that the shop next door selling statues of spliff smoking aliens and bulldogs in bowler hats is still open? :D

I know that I'm not known as one of the most positive members of these forums but I have to say that having seen that render and despite all my previous rants, I'm feeling really chipper about the Harewood Quarter . It looks like a really sympathetic remodelling of Eastgate retaining the bookmarks as well as the Templar Hotel and Templar House. The new build elements look interesting and a really good mix of designs rather than a homogenised mass from one architect.

I'm also loving the New York House tower, infinitely better than that Carey Jones sh!te that was proposed beforehand and if things couldn't get any better are those some roof gardens I spy? Number 1 will be delighted! ;)

Leeds No.1

August 21st, 2006, 11:44 PM

Yes it was originally planned to be Selfridges, which again yes is unlikely. House of Fraser relocation is quite possible actually; but on the other hand, a good department store at the lower end of Briggate I would still like to keep. A foreign store might be welcome- whatever it is, I would expect it to be high end with it being in the particular location. There isn't a TJ Hughes in Leeds- I'm not sure if I really want one, but if House of Fraser do relocate, then the current Hosue of Fraser building may be an ideal unit. The first Harvey Nichols outside of London relocated to Leeds; maybe we could hope for the first Harrods! Tbh, I doubt it though; possibly under a different name though? Anything could be done with it; but what we do know, is that it will be a prime unit for a department store.

Infact; if this will bring 100 new stores, what will they be? There are already most stores in Leeds; I heard a while ago 136 chains were looking for space in Leeds. I have no idea who they are. So far for the Harewood Qtr we have John Lewis. I guess Mango would be interested- but really, what isn't there? I think it's designer shops/high end high street brands that will fill many of the units. We know there is an interest for designers to move into Leeds- Louis Vuitton will open soon in the VQ- The Light also houses some well-priced shops and there are others dotted here and there.

di Livio

August 22nd, 2006, 09:11 PM

Dan B

August 23rd, 2006, 02:26 PM

http://www.leeds-cityscape.co.uk/eastgate_and_Harewood_image.jpg

I see the ghost of Alsop still haunts the area then...

di Livio

August 23rd, 2006, 04:17 PM

I see the ghost of Alsop still haunts the area then...

It's only a masterplan at this stage, and a very good one at that.

JOliver

August 23rd, 2006, 05:48 PM

I see the ghost of Alsop still haunts the area then...

I trust you comment on mushroom-like structures Daniel? Fear them not. In fact, Alsop never proposed building them in Bradford as well. They are just used as for "something to be designed and built in the future". He was never comissioned (unfortunately, if you ask me!) to designe anything for Bradford (or Leeds). His masterplan is a great document, I do recommend everyone interested in city developments read it (can be downloaded or they can even post it to you - see http://www.bradfordurc.co.uk/.... (http://www.bradfordurc.co.uk/publications.asp?nav=company&subnav=publications)

Val Verde

August 23rd, 2006, 08:44 PM

I trust you comment on mushroom-like structures Daniel? Fear them not. In fact, Alsop never proposed building them in Bradford as well. They are just used as for "something to be designed and built in the future". He was never comissioned (unfortunately, if you ask me!) to designe anything for Bradford (or Leeds). His masterplan is a great document, I do recommend everyone interested in city developments read it (can be downloaded or they can even post it to you - see http://www.bradfordurc.co.uk/.... (http://www.bradfordurc.co.uk/publications.asp?nav=company&subnav=publications)

Well I am not keen on Alsops building of the arts centre in West Brom which has gone bust even before its open (as I saw on BBC 10 O Clock News yesterday) and it appears like a B&Q DIY Centre with squiggaly windows which is not a good thing in my opinion.

http://www.thepublic.com/img/building3.jpg

As for Eastgate its actually Terry Farell who is designing this scheme which is good because he is a well known architect designing a building in Leeds and is well known for buildings such as MI6, offices above Charing Cross railway station and the old TV-am building in London and up north has designed buildings such as the Deep in Hull and the Centre for Life in Newcastle. Sure would hope that this development would not only reinvent the shopping centre from being a dull soulless environment that would look the same in Aberdeen as it would in Yeovil with the same old chain stores and decor into something that would reinvigorate the Leeds as a whole into a world class city centre. Also would hope looking at the renders that there would be statement landmark buildings that would make a same impression of Leeds as Selfridges does to Birmingham.

Leeds No.1

August 23rd, 2006, 08:48 PM

I really like those squiggly windows. Leeds was a world class shopping centre when it started out- with its grand arcades. The grand arcade needs a bit of treatment. Its status will be restored, Im sure.

Orgoglioso

August 30th, 2006, 11:40 PM

hi i'm new

I was just wondering if this project is officially approved because i was on their site and they're still talking about proposals. However town centre securities sound quite optimistic it's a sure bet.

Orgoglioso

August 30th, 2006, 11:40 PM

Orgoglioso

August 30th, 2006, 11:42 PM

sorry double post :bash:

Rob

August 31st, 2006, 08:39 PM

Hi Orgoglioso. It isn't approved yet, but it is more than just a proposal as full plans have been prepared and a full planning application has been made. They will certainly get permission as they have taken account of various group's requirements, but will no doubt have to make one or two changes. The council have also started making compulsary purchase orders on some of the land that the developers don't yet own.

Orgoglioso

August 31st, 2006, 09:43 PM

thanks, i really hope it does go ahead. I think this is a great development

di Livio

September 22nd, 2006, 07:22 PM

An update for the eastgateleeds.co.uk website.
There are now detailed files on the application for planning permission.

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/proposals_planning.htm

Leeds No.1

September 22nd, 2006, 08:45 PM

When you see the amount of analysis and investigation into this scheme throguh the PDF files, you can see why it takes so long for things like this to get going!

Val Verde

September 22nd, 2006, 10:25 PM

Noticed some interesting info on potential retailers looking at expansion in Leeds other than John Lewis on pg 60 of the Eastgate Retail PDF file (I guess these might not neccissarily open in Eastgate but could open at old Lewis's or Trinity Quarter instead) http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/downloads/LP05/Retail%20Statment/EASTGATE%20RETAIL%20STATEMENT%202006%20FINAL%20SUBMIT.pdf. It includes:

* House of Fraser (100,000 - 200,000 sq ft) which they mentioned are interested in relocating (Guess they could be the possible second flagship after John Lewis replacing their outdated store on Briggate perhaps which is in dire need of redevelopment as well as the adjacent and vomitously ugly Market St Arcade :puke: )

* TJ Hughes (25,000 - 150,000 sq ft) (Don't know much about them as I never been in one are they like a modern day version of the old Co-op department store which used to be on Albion St till about a decade ago where Wilkinsons now is?)

* TK Maxx (50,000 sq ft) Second city centre store

* Adidas (8,000 - 10,000 sq ft)

* Top Shop (25,000 sq ft) Second city centre store (as listed in the pdf perhaps replacing the St Johns Centre branch?)

* Nike (3,500 sq ft) (Wonder why that is planned to be under half the size of a possible adidas store?)

Good to see some possible names for retailers interested in Leeds City Centre as well as secondary stores for Top Shop and TK Maxx cementing popularity of those retailers. A recouring theme within the PDF seemed to be the lack of large department stores in the city. However they seem to have given up on Selfridges opening up in Leeds as they don't seem to promote them as a possible new tenant especially as there was hype a few years ago that they could be expanding into Leeds which now appears to look very unlikely to happen. :cry: Also what about Fenwicks I would imagine they could possibly be interested in entering the Leeds market and maybe some other department store could perhaps open.

Finally I looked through the various pdfs and nothing (what I could find) mentions a railway station to serve this development (near to the bus station) which I believe could vastly improve access for Eastgate Quarter. Wonder why they could not think of that?

Leeds No.1

September 22nd, 2006, 10:55 PM

A railway station, if it were to be built, would not be in the Eastgate/Harewood Qtr area. Quarry Hill more like.

Topshop I think you mean a 3rd city centre store- there is already one on Briggate, and one in the St. Johns Centre.

I have been in TJ Hughes Glasgow, and another one somewhere, can't remember though. Pretty average department store, but one that a city the size of Leeds should really have. Just like BHS kinda thing really.

Selfridges are unlikely because they have cancelled expansion; we think. But the future isnt completely gone for them in Leeds; but I wouldn't get any hopes up at all on a Selfridges.

John Lewis is a confirmed tenant.

Addidas would be good; I went past, what Im guessing is their flagship store, on Oxford Street the other day. Had quite a smart appearance and didn't attract chavs to what I saw. A Nike store would be good too.

Really what we're saying is we're wanting new tenants when possible, or improvements on existing stores like House of Fraser. If House of Fraser relocate, the current House of Fraser and Market Street Arcade could be redeveloped in the same was Harvey Nichols was. It could be attractive to a branch of a London department store; the first outside London like Harvey Nichols was, maybe?

Ex-Allders I'm sure would have been perfect for Selfridges but oh well.

Heals and Mango are some major chains missing from the city centre at the moment- I hope they take advantage of the numerous retail schemes upcoming. Fenwick would be a great addition, but unlikely I think.

Typhoo25

September 23rd, 2006, 03:39 AM

Recent business news stated that Selfridges were in real trouble in their existing stores and that they need to see an upturn in trading to prevent massive problems in the future.

I would imagine for future stores there has to be a lot of concessions in the likes of Debenhams and Allders that want their own stores now.

di Livio

September 23rd, 2006, 10:23 AM

TJ Hughes is a budget department store, the experience of which is not unlike stepping through a time vortex and finding yourself in the Lewis's of the 1980s.

There's a Fenwick's in York so i can't see them setting up in Leeds. Never been that impressed with it anyway, it's too much like John Lewis. I'm not a huge fan of department stores, with the possible exception of Selfridges they seem a bit old hat to me.

If you want to know what the Eastgate development will be like go and have a look at the Bullring in Birmingham. It has larger size regular stores like Dixons XL, Topshop, River Island, etc; upmarket designer stuff (which i presume will fill Ebenezer Street); one-off stores like Adidas and Nike; and an array of chain-based eateries (might we see the return of Betty's to Leeds?).

What gives me cause for concern however is the failure of stores like Lilywhites to maintain a presence in Leeds. Can Leeds really sustain such a large expansion of the central shopping grid?

Leeds No.1

September 23rd, 2006, 12:16 PM

Yes it can. I think Lilywhites could return to Leeds if a decent sized unit was made available. Current House of Fraser maybe?

I was thinking about Betty's earlier actually. I think particularly now that the city is more upper class, it could return. I think it would have to be very select over where it buys a unit though. Im not sure if Eastgate/Harewood Qtr would be suited to it. Riverside might be better? Or Millennium Square somewhere?

Leeds can sustain a strong shopping area- stores close and move because of the lack of floorspace mainly. The units in central Leeds are generally quite small compared to other cities.

I generally am impressed by department stores, but they have to have a good store. ie John Lewis could present a fantastic, flagship store, such as the one on Oxford Street; or the one in Buchanan Galleries is impressive. Some however are really rather shabby and in need of renovation. Department Stores bring the reputations of cities up IMO. London is famous for its department stores.

JOliver

October 5th, 2006, 08:43 PM

...

JOliver

October 5th, 2006, 08:44 PM

....

JOliver

October 5th, 2006, 08:44 PM

An article from Property Week

Leeds united

Hammerson and Town Centre Securities have teamed up for the latest in a new wave of shopping centres.
29.09.2006
By Laura Chesters

Hammerson has unveiled plans for a massive city centre shopping centre in Leeds that is the latest in a new generation of shopping centre design.

The latest exclusive images of the scheme, masterplanned by Sir Terry Farrell and developed in conjunction with Town Centre Securities, show how architects are hoping to recreate city streets rather than dumping big centres in the middle of a town.

The scheme, which was submitted for planning in June, is unveiled amid mounting fears that the sheer size of the town centre shopping development pipeline in the UK may force power to slip from landlords to retailers.

New schemes are now attempting to rise above the competition by creating more than just the traditional shopping environment.

The Leeds Partnership has thought much earlier about the design and retail mix of the 1.2m sq ft (111,482 sq m) scheme. Each part of the scheme will be designed by different architects with Farrells as masterplanner.

This echoes Grosvenor’s approach at its £800m Liverpool One project.

The partnership already has one of the most important ‘lead retailers’ on board. John Lewis has agreed to anchor the scheme with a 260,000 sq ft (24,154 sq m) store. John Lewis is now effectively part of the partnership, taking a keen interest in all aspects of design.

Consumer spending

Farrells partner John Letherland says: ‘We think the Leeds scheme is the next step on from the Bullring. The next step in ‘in-town’ retail design. From the outset we have benefited from Hammerson’s vision for the scheme.

‘The project is a great marriage between big-scale thinking and retail expertise. For us it’s about good-quality urban thinking brought to the city centre context in an exemplary way.’

A study by Verdict Research suggests a building boom in town centres will put downward pressure on shop rents and force landlords to offer retailers better incentives.

This is supported by the Colliers CRE report released in June, which predicted that the 53m sq ft (4.9m sq m) of new floorspace, to be completed by the end of the decade, and the planned opening of 61m sq ft (5.6m sq m) for the 2012 Olympics, represents a 14% rise on the amounts predicted last year.

Jon Emery, Hammerson development director, says: ‘We take the view that increasingly, the city centre product is under more and more competition, be it from out of town, supermarkets or the internet.

‘We have to think carefully why consumers come to city centres. With Farrells we will offer exciting environments, not monolithic malls.’

‘There is a relatively small number of retailers and one could be in danger of creating the same as everywhere else,’ says Emery. ‘We don’t totally agree with the criticisms made by the Clone Town Britain report, but there is definitely a danger of a drift toward this.

‘We need to differentiate our scheme from others and we are working hard on this from the research we do. The danger, again, could be to go mass market. But with clever design of the environment and retail mix we want to deliver what the customers want but not in the same way as elsewhere.’

http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/2897/leedshw2.jpg

Light-hearted: glazed canopy at centre of masterplanner Farrells’ retail scheme

JOliver

October 5th, 2006, 08:46 PM

....

di Livio

October 6th, 2006, 01:45 PM

Great find J.O.
I love the 'cathedral of shopping' that is the proposed galleria.
Good job the original red-brick and glass Harewood Quarter fell through, this could be very special.

Subliving

October 6th, 2006, 02:04 PM

That design looks lush! I hope they could get that sort of delicacy into the support columns, and still maintain the strength necessasry to create such a fluid looking glazed roof.

I feel sorry for the guy who'd have to clean it though.

Love the space in there! It's like an enormous version of The Light. Anyone know if this is an actual plan, or simply a concept?

Subliving.

Leeds No.1

October 6th, 2006, 05:34 PM

It looks awesome :) Its the concept of atriums that fascinate people- so big, airy and spectacular. It will be a real attraction in the city centre! I must say though, to the ineducated public, it would appear the case that this is one big shopping centre, rather than part of a larger scheme to recreate outdoor streets and public spaces; people tricked into a view that it could be a new Arndale or Merrion.

jimbo

October 6th, 2006, 07:39 PM

that sort of effect is prevalent all over the place. the Eaton Centre in Toronto has a similar soaring 'cathedral' type effect.

Anyhoo, more promising news abounds. Shame they aren't starting in 2007 though. Wonder if all the CPOs are going through okay - would be a travesty for this to get delayed, though those retailers and flat owners who own their own units should be being remunerated fairly (and at a premium) for the hassle.

SimCity4

October 6th, 2006, 08:14 PM

So is this pland to start in 2008

di Livio

October 7th, 2006, 01:30 PM

the Eaton Centre in Toronto has a similar soaring 'cathedral' type effect.

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~shmat/photo/toronto/04bceplace.jpg

Leeds No.1

October 7th, 2006, 04:56 PM

di Livio

October 7th, 2006, 06:00 PM

imo other than the roof in that building, itsn ot that impressive. It looks to have no life in it; it should be the central feature, where all exits and entrances to shops and cafes are; rather than off smaller little side corridors. In there, there are no balconies; the upper levels should be accesible within the atrium, not just the ground floor- ie in the light you can be in the atrium from the top floor. In the Eaton centre, it looks to me that you can't be in the atrium unless you are at ground level.

Yup, with the exception of the roof it's fairly soulless. I think it may have been a regular street which, like Fred Koetter's concept for Briggate a few years ago, covers over the original street pattern, not unlike our own VQ.

BCE Place Galleria

http://www.massipfons.com/images/00004067p.jpg

Anyway, i got it wrong, this be the eaton centre...

http://www.nocom.ca/modular_wiring/photos/Eaton-Centre_large.jpg

Leeds No.1

October 7th, 2006, 06:15 PM

I prefer the galleria- if only it had more life. Anyway, thats not the point. The victoria quarter works because it is original buildings with character contrasting to the modern roof.

The Royal Armouries atrium is a good example of what I want to see; not the actual design of it, but the way the lifts go down the sides of it, and the walkways around the upper levels of the atrium; trying to better explain the idea of being part of the atrium rather than looking into the atrium from the upper levels.

di Livio

October 22nd, 2006, 03:10 PM

The Eastgate/Harewood Quarter made World Architecture News.com

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/project/uploaded_files/434_385%20leedsebenezer2.jpg

Vision for Leeds city centre

Finalised application submitted
The Leeds Partnership has recently submitted a finalised planning application for the Eastgate and Harewood Quarter of Leeds’ city centre. The master plan design, led by Farrells architects, illustrates aims to create a £700 million, 1.2 million ft² (100,000m²) retail-led city centre regeneration. The key aim of the design is to incorporate Leeds’ historic legacy with a contemporary European ambience. The largely derelict site will be transformed into a number of different buildings with many diverse uses, including: new department stores (notably a flagship John Lewis store), over 100 new shops, bars and restaurants, cinemas, a gym, offices, flats, a crèche and other community facilities. The development will provide 600 new homes and as many as 5000 new jobs.

SimCity4

October 22nd, 2006, 07:15 PM

thats really good news that they have submited the Finalised application, so by early 2007 this should have been aprooved "hopfully".

andy_wakey

October 22nd, 2006, 08:07 PM

Looks so great! Leeds needs a shiny new shopping area in its city centre

Typhoo25

October 22nd, 2006, 09:47 PM

This development will really take Leeds back into the big league and this should prove to be a real attraction. The knock on effect into other areas should be interesting aswell as other centres try and keep up as a new area opens up. Merrion Centre, St Johns and Shopping Plaza will all have to pull their socks up to keep up with this and Trinity quarter.

I would imagine that many of the larger units in Leeds could become available as the high street retailers scramble into the new shopping area which in itself will freshen up all the other parts of the town.

SimCity4

October 23rd, 2006, 07:07 PM

is this planned to start in 2008 or late 2007

Rob

October 24th, 2006, 07:33 PM

2008.

They said at the exhibition that it would all be built at once, not the usual phasing that takes about two centuries to complete. To get an idea of the scale of this, get over to the Paradise development in Liverpool, which is similar in scale and is all being built at once.

Even Flow

November 9th, 2006, 07:37 PM

An interesting planning app was approved this week.

06/03335/LI/C

Leeds Partnership

Listed Building application to renovate and repair external fabric of the building.

Templar House
Lady Lane
Leeds
LS2 7LP

Approved 31/10/06
City and Hunslet

First sign of activity in the Eastgate Harewood scheme??

di Livio

November 9th, 2006, 10:16 PM

First sign of activity in the Eastgate Harewood scheme??

Activity might still be some way off, encouraging news nevertheless. Could be a beaut if she's treated right.

Even Flow

November 20th, 2006, 04:57 PM

This was discussed at the last plans panel earlier this month. Agenda is here : http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000173/M00001081/AI00004435/0603333OT.pdf , the outcome isnt yet known, yet this line " it is hoped that officers will be in a position to bring a full report with an officer recommendation to a special panel in February 2007," suggests that either they could not reach a decision or that this was just an interim discussion???

An interesting read if you have the time though, I skimmed through it and there are a couple of snippets of interesting info.

The 25 storey residential tower is still under consideration,
The development will be built simultaneously, taking 48 months.
The opening estimate is now 2012.
The lyons building may be demolished or retained, this is till undecided.
The car park will have almost 3000 spaces (This seems a lot!)
The public spaces will form a number of new squares, totalling 25% of the total development space.
The development should be "internationally recognisable".

Even Flow

November 20th, 2006, 08:12 PM

SimCity4

November 20th, 2006, 08:29 PM

is it still going to be finished in 2012 and when are we likely to hear if its aproved or not as it was submited for planning in June

jimbo

November 20th, 2006, 10:07 PM

With regards to my last post, I've just been speaking to someone who confirmed what I was starting to think, Jan/Feb 2007 is decision time for the outline. Start on site has been pushed back to the start of 2009, which is disappointing seeing as the lady told me at the exhibition they were aiming for the end of 2007................ :ohno:

2009? What the smeg do they need 2 years to do? If interim planning is agreed at the start of 07, it doesn't take 2 years to push the full app through. Additionally, CPOs won't take that long to enforce either. Arggh!

48months - are you sure, 4 whole years to build the entire thing - if its simultaneous, you'd think it would be somewhat quicker. I can understand Lumiere being a 3 year build programme due to the 3-4 storey basement excavation and logistics re: height, but compare Harewood Eastgate to White City down here in the Village, and that's going to be open in early 2008 having started on site early/mid 05 - and that's way bigger, with new tube stations, tube sidings, a new station and all sorts of other stuff on top of the actual shopping centre.

anyhoo, top sleuthing evenflow.

P.S. are you a plumber or fluvial specialist? - intrigued by your name. sort of :)

Leeds No.1

November 20th, 2006, 10:37 PM

They don't need that long at all. However, if it is to be a world project (as they keep going on; world class etc) then they are clearly envisaging that a documentary will be produced about its construction; a bit like the documentary made about the channel tunnel, or maybe an educational video for geography or something. So clearly, a good storyline needs to be in place for this to happen. And whats more exciting than an epic tale of delays, designs and construction. This is the real reason; dont let all these stories cover up the truth: I certainly wont. ¬_¬

Rob

November 21st, 2006, 09:13 PM

To see how long it would take, look at Paradise Street in Liverpool, which is the nearest comparison in size. It certainly won't take four years to build if they get on with it big scale as Grosvenor have in Liverpool. I'm also sure John Lewis's won't put up with any major delay.

Val Verde

November 21st, 2006, 10:49 PM

Intresting document regards to Eastgate especially the past applications for shopping centres on this site which date back to 1977. Does anyone on here know about any of these axed earlier schemes for Eastgate? They should certainly retain the Lyons building in this development though and also appears John Lewis is to be the only anchor for this development. Surely despite the loss of Selfridges they could aim to incorporate another major department store in this development. Also what was John Lewis's decision to locate at Eastgate as opposed to Trinity Quarter or the old Lewis's department store? Does anyone know?

Leeds No.1

November 22nd, 2006, 12:31 AM

I think Allders already had a development plan so it was out of the question. Trinity Quarter; simply too small. If it were to be the whole quarter, or even half the quarter, that would be fine; but the units are alot smaller, and there are more of them. Rather than 3-4 large units. JL will be 260,000sq. ft- Trinity Qtr is 260,000sq. ft. So really, I think its to do with size.

LeedsLad

November 22nd, 2006, 01:11 AM

I heard there was a shopping centre planned at the time when Milgarth Police station was built. They even built the reception to Milgarth on the 3rd/4th floor as the entrance was going to be through the shopping centre over some sort of bridge/link...

di Livio

November 22nd, 2006, 03:24 PM

Even Flow

December 16th, 2006, 01:33 PM

onix

December 16th, 2006, 03:51 PM

leeds the best

December 16th, 2006, 10:09 PM

I love this project it has everything in one and a beutiful design.
now all we need is a selfridges and a arena.

di Livio

December 17th, 2006, 02:07 PM

2009. oh dear.

Well it's certainly much earlier than i was expecting, and at least we know it has a good chance of actually starting on that date.
Youn can't say fairer than a planning application within the next few months.

SimCity4

December 17th, 2006, 08:31 PM

2009 is a few years away but atleast there not rushing at what will be an exelent scheme and one of the best in England.

Skychaser 2005

December 17th, 2006, 11:45 PM

I think if we had not had Trinity Quarter starting in a couple of months, this could have been really bad news for Leeds retail scene, but with Trinity taking its first tennants in a couple of years time, there will be a release of quality retail units to cover the stop gap before Eastgate launches.

leeds the best

December 18th, 2006, 12:00 AM

DOes anyone know a shop retailers list for tq yet what type of shops do t=you think will be their.

onix

December 18th, 2006, 12:11 AM

SimCity4

December 18th, 2006, 08:51 PM

From the Estates Gazette 2007 preview - Leeds
Trinity Quarter and Leeds Shopping Plaza will now be built seperately. Land Securities' Plaza is scheduled to open in 2009. Trinity Quarter's owner USS, has asked Jones Lang La Salle to find it a development partner.

Capital & Counties Broad Gate scheme will begin trading in 2008. Agents believe this, along with Harewood Quarter shopping centre which is due to be completed in 2011, will boost prime rents.

How correct is the finishing date of Harewood Quarter. it will be really good if is correct better than 2013.

Skychaser 2005

December 18th, 2006, 10:59 PM

JOliver

December 18th, 2006, 11:30 PM

" Trinity Quarter's owner USS, has asked Jones Lang La Salle to find it a development partner. "

I don't understand this line. Does this mean the project can't begin until a partner is found? That could take months or years.

I thought this project was beginning on site in Feb??

As I understand it, USS is just a pension fund with big £££. Obviously they don't have the expertise to oversee the development process. So yes untill the developer is found, the work won't start. From what we've seen so far, I'll be happy if it's HBG and not Simons (we had enough delays).

Smoggie_Si

December 19th, 2006, 11:40 PM

DOes anyone know a shop retailers list for tq yet what type of shops do t=you think will be their.

:gaah:

Do you think we all possess mystic powers or summat?

Every single thread on the Leeds forum seems to contain at least one post from you asking when it is going to start or the like.

jimbo

December 19th, 2006, 11:47 PM

:gaah:

Do you think we all possess mystic powers or summat?

Every single thread on the Leeds forum seems to contain at least one post from you asking when it is going to start or the like.

:lol:

i confidently predict that the Trinity Quarter will contain a number of retail outlets. One of them (at least) will sell clothes.

Smoggie_Si

December 19th, 2006, 11:58 PM

i confidently predict that the Trinity Quarter will contain a number of retail outlets. One of them (at least) will sell clothes.

:lol:

Behold the Leeds soothsayer!

But does anyone know when it's likely to start? :runaway:

;)

Subliving

December 20th, 2006, 04:48 PM

:lol:

Behold the Leeds soothsayer!

But does anyone know when it's likely to start? :runaway:

;)

Yes.

Subliving.

Leeds_John

December 20th, 2006, 07:01 PM

So does anyone know when is this gonna start? hehe

Subliving

December 21st, 2006, 05:33 PM

So does anyone know when is this gonna start? hehe

I'd assume somebody would!

Subliving.

di Livio

January 15th, 2007, 03:00 PM

Mr. Ian Andrews,
Chief Planning and Development Services Officer
Leeds City Council
Leonardo Building
2 Rossington Street
Leeds
LS2 8HD

30 September 2006

Dear Mr. Andrews

Planning Applications 06/03333/OT/C
Harewood Eastgate Quarter, Leeds

We have had many discussions with the architects and developers over the few years that this application has been gestating. We have always supported the possibility of a John Lewis store coming to Leeds and adding to the retail opportunity. However, through all our discussions the developers have not been able to convince us why it needs to take the form that it does. So while there are many aspects of the final scheme which we can support there are also many to which we must officially object. These can be considered under the following headings:

1. The effects of comprehensive redevelopment;
2. Diversity of uses and activity;
3. Greenspace/urban realm
4. Indicative Building Form and Heights

Concerns that we had on the issue of transport appear to have been resolved during the course of discussions, but we believe greater consideration needs to be give to the issue of retail volume

1 Comprehensive redevelopment
Clearly with two large vacant sites used for surface car parking, the proposals here were always going to be large scale. Selective demolition of some buildings may be appropriate, and the townscape study was a sensible means of deciding what does not contribute positively. Yet no justification is provided for the demolition of some of those identified as of good quality. We still believe that there is no intrinsic need to demolish some of the better buildings on the site: in particular the Lyons Warehouse and Circle House, both of which could have made a positive contribution to the final scheme if retained. Stitching new development into valued existing city fabric is more sensitive and ultimately more successful than wholesale clearance which destroys city image and collective memory along with the fabric.
We do feel that the changes that have been made to the scheme in terms of the Blomfield buildings and bookends are an improvement. Though we do not normally believe pastiche or reproduction is the best way to develop, in this case the rebuilding of the southern side of Eastgate in a Blomfield inspired design will provide the strong axis which was always intended.
However, this merely illustrates how important it is to retain those elements which can provide character, continuity and contrast with the new. The Light is a good example of how successful this approach can be

2 Diversity of uses and activities
Moreover, creating a vibrant and interesting "place" with its own identity and character is more likely to be successful if it uses elements of the existing, particularly if it already has a character of its own. This applies to uses as well as buildings
The comprehensive redevelopment approach taken will destroy the embryonic Chinatown which is developing in the area. Rather than sweeping such diversity away the proposal should embrace and nurture the existing specialist markets, restaurants and other uses which could give variety and richness to an otherwise sterile shopping experience. John Lewis may well provide a major draw for shoppers, but imagine how much more vibrant and exciting this place could be with a wider diversity of uses and activities.
The approach has also resulted in the loss of social housing, south of Bridge Street. Replacement will almost certainly not be as good in terms of location, amenity (the loss of real gardens in the city centre!) and we question the degree of consultation with the actual residents as opposed to English Churches management.

3 Public realm and Greenspace
On many occasions we have promoted the idea of more green space in the city centre and this appears to be supported by all we discuss it with - except the City Council. A development as large as this is the opportunity to create a pocket park - sufficient space maybe away from the major activity routes where an oasis of grass and trees in the sunlight might allow somewhere for casual relaxation.
The proposal does now include some formal grass in Blomfield Square. This is to be welcomed but does not go far enough towards providing the sort of space the city needs. The plans are slightly deceptive as it could be assumed without closer scrutiny that the similarly coloured but private, first floor green spaces for residents in the new flats are public.
Much is made in the application of the creation of new public spaces. While some of these - Blomfield Square, Templar Square - are significant spaces (though hardly the "green destination" described by the applicants), some do stretch the imagination a little. Millgarth Square and the Bridge Street space for example are both outside the site, and the Hope Street space under the viaduct requires more thought in its use as a link between Eastgate and Mabgate/Regent Street.
From the beginning of discussions we have emphasised how important it is to create a link to the northeast which will be pleasant for pedestrians. What is provided is a narrow pavement between an inactive frontage (apart from underground vehicle entrances) and a busy road. This aspect must be improved.

4 Indicative Building Form and Heights
The parameter plans show the flexibility which the applicants wish to be built in to the heights and sizes of the blocks. It is interesting that all the visual images provided appear to show the smallest likely heights. There should be a maximum limit, and as this is highly unlikely to be reduced on submission of detail designs, the visuals should be honest enough to illustrate the scheme as it is actually intended. If the outline is seeking approval for the siting and massing of buildings these should be precisely defined at this stage. Furthermore, the heights shown should be reduced in the areas closest to the Eastgate axis where otherwise they will dominate these buildings. Horizontal dimensions should be fixed, based on the appropriate heights for spaces between them. A policy of flexibility could result in spaces of completely different character from those suggested.
Whilst this proposal is an outline application, more detail should be provided of the buildings which will replace existing buildings so that judgements can be made as to whether they are actually an improvement on those to be demolished.

5 Retail volume
A John Lewis store will be a major bonus for Leeds. However, this proposal as a whole adds 1.25 million square feet - almost a 30% increase on the city centre's existing 4.3 million square feet of retail space. This is at a time when the retail sector is not as buoyant as it was. Has the planning authority considered what impact this level of increase will have on the remainder of the retail sector in the city when it is complete? There is a very real danger that other parts of the city centre will suffer from retail blight as a result: will the Trinity Quarter ever be redeveloped for example? Will shoppers venture further into the city centre than Vicar Lane? The local authority should be very sure that this proposal will not adversely affect the viability of the rest of the city centre.

In summary, we object to

the comprehensive development approach resulting in the loss of key buildings and recommend an approach based on sensitive renewal
The loss of existing culturally diverse uses and activities in the area
The inadequate amount of green space within the public realm and
The flexibility given to the proposed building heights and sizes.

We also urge the planning authority to carefully consider our comments about the effect of the scheme on the viability of the rest of the city centre's retail business.

Yours sincerely

Kevin Grady
Director..

JOliver

January 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM

..

Who's the whining fella?

Monsoon

January 15th, 2007, 03:50 PM

Director of what? he has some very intelligent points in there, don't disagree at all.

ahmedd

January 15th, 2007, 05:39 PM

Who's the whining fella?

Kevin Grady, Director of Leeds Civic Trust.

It's not alll whining they actually offer some good ideas which if incorporated could lead to a much better development.

JOliver

January 15th, 2007, 06:31 PM

Kevin Grady, Director of Leeds Civic Trust.

It's not alll whining they actually offer some good ideas which if incorporated could lead to a much better development.

Thanks, I thought so.

While there are some good points (development of Chinese Quarter is the one I liked) I can't agree with their conclusions - they should have Supported the scheme with some comments rather than Objected to it.

The amount of benefits it will bring to the city is enormous and well outweighs the loss of 2 building and Chinese shops - which I am sure will re-open elsewhere as they are indestructible.

Height objections are just laughable - there is not a single really high rise building planned.

This objection shows that Leeds Civic Trust are living in their own weird world, mile away from Leeds real life. No offence to Fred though as he probably was not involved in this :)

Leeds No.1

January 15th, 2007, 06:36 PM

Id say the points are valid. But he is stupid for not submitting that letter much earlier in its development- if this stops the project from progressing, itll be ages before it is built. We really need to get on and build it. People like him will stop the city from moving on.

JOliver

January 15th, 2007, 08:23 PM

Well let's go point by point then.

1. Comprehensive redevelopment
The 2 building in question hardly the best buildings Leeds ever had, and, although I'd prefer them being kept and renovated I won't be crying to see them go if they will give way to quality new builds. Improvements planned for Headrow alone compensate such (probable) loss.

2. Diversity of uses and activities
To call a few shops a Chinatown is more than exaggeration. Yes that would be "nice to have" addition to the quarter, but to say they are destroying it is not true.

3. Public realm and Greenspace
Why nobody is objecting to a massive car park on this location? Yes it's kind of obvious that parks are good, I doubt it is economically viable to build a large park on such a prime location. I bet it will cost them a small fortune to buy the land and relocate everyone, so can't expect them to create anything Harrogate-like. A little square and tree-lined pedestrian streets would do for me.

4. Indicative Building Form and Heights
Sorry but the times of 2 storey buildings in city centers are over. Build it AHAP (as in ASAP)!

5. Retail volume
Again, the more the better. Should drive the rents down and bring more retailers to Leeds, hopefully independent as well and not just chains.

Personally, I disagreed with every single point they've made as well as conclusions.

Feel free to disagree with me :)

Leeds No.1

January 15th, 2007, 08:29 PM

The car parks are underground and multi storey arent they?

Green Space- put it on the rooves. 2 storeys is a bit of an exaggeration; theyre about 5/6/7 to my knowledge.

JOliver

January 16th, 2007, 12:16 PM

The car parks are underground and multi storey arent they?

Not now :) My point was, why CT does not object to what is bad now, i.e. these ugly car parks and awful police station, and object to massive improvements being proposed? Just trying to be original, I think.

Green Space- put it on the rooves.

In Budapest there's a huge shopping centre along the railway lines with absolutey terrific park/playground/sculptures etc on the roof.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/33011540_8004b4aac9.jpg

More here: http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=westend+centre+budapest&m=text

Why not to build one for Leeds?

Even Flow

January 26th, 2007, 01:24 PM

di Livio

January 31st, 2007, 03:36 PM

No news, but i found some images of the original Ebenezer/ Wood Street area.

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/26/26.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/23/2002819_89992923.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/64/2002815_27088564.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/52/2002819_65259952.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/83/2002819_48475283.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/52/2003717_64652652.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/62/2002814_12630862.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/25/25.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/51/2005120_63219851.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/06/2002318_49903506.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/43/2002318_90678043.jpg

Fred2

January 31st, 2007, 03:52 PM

di Livio

January 31st, 2007, 09:07 PM

[QUOTE=di Livio;11568134]No news, but i found some images of the original Ebenezer/ Wood Street area.

Wood Street was on the west side of Vicar lane and NOT in the Eastgate/Harewood area to be developed.

It followed the line of one of the original 60 burgage plots off Briggate and was demolished in 1896/7 to make way for Queen Victoria Street (designed by Frank Matcham) - now part of our elegant Victoria Quarter.

I quickly wrote down a list of old city centre streets earlier today and i was going through Leodis trying to find them. I think I meant to say Union Street/George street, etc, but not wood street which i think housed a slaughterhouse at one time.

5th Elevation

February 1st, 2007, 01:41 PM

Is the plans panel on Feb 8th a special one to discuss this scheme?
I know there is a scheduled panel meeting next Thursday, which seems to be the standard once a month affair, but then there is also one a week later, and it must be getting to the time to discuss the outline permission for this?

Plans Panel meeting on 8th February IS to discuss the outline application - Officer's report is over 100 pages long with 107 conditions ........

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/moderngov/Published/C00000173/M00002850/$$ADocPackPublic.pdf

Looks like they're recommending approval, though

Even Flow

February 1st, 2007, 02:28 PM

Thanks for the confirmation.

I'll read the report later if I get the chance, but what I think now is that there will be quite a few reservations, and that the decision is really still on a knife edge.

The last report to the council was met with a number of questions about why certain aspects hadnt been addressed satisfactorily, so there are still some things to iron out........

di Livio

February 1st, 2007, 03:13 PM

Much appreciated, 5th elevation.

ahmedd

February 1st, 2007, 05:16 PM

I may have missed this, but 48 month build with retail opening in 2012 (5 years away!) where will we be in the shopping rankings by then?

di Livio

February 1st, 2007, 05:38 PM

I may have missed this, but 48 month build with retail opening in 2012 (5 years away!) where will we be in the shopping rankings by then?

Don't forget Broadgate, although it isn't anything like the size of Eastgate, it's still quite a significant development.

http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/img_hr/HeadrowAlldersdetail.jpg

Fred2

February 1st, 2007, 07:07 PM

I may have missed this, but 48 month build with retail opening in 2012 (5 years away!) where will we be in the shopping rankings by then?

Ahmedd, be careful what you say or people like Subliving and No. 1 will be down on you like a ton of bricks for being so pessimistic ! But of course you are right ! di Livio mentions Broadgate - but that will only be replacing the much missed Lewis's/Allders.

onix

February 1st, 2007, 07:30 PM

5th Elevation

February 1st, 2007, 10:24 PM

Thanks for the confirmation.
The last report to the council was met with a number of questions about why certain aspects hadnt been addressed satisfactorily, so there are still some things to iron out........

I checked and it's the only scheme on the agenda -would be odd if they allowed a special meeting only to turn it down! I reckon it's a dead cert.

Even Flow

February 1st, 2007, 11:41 PM

I thought the reasoning behind this being the only item on the agenda was because it would take so long to discuss and come to an agreement.
There is an awful lot to talk about and there are a number of very good points raised in opposition by various people. I dont think it will be a case of turning up and saying "yep it all sounds wonderful."
I'm all for the scheme and think it's vital for the city to get this done. However, we dont want to look back in 20 years and think, "you know what, why DID we knock down that old building to build this glorified mall?"
It needs to be outstanding and something that everyone can be proud of. I think the proposals are good, and I was impressed when I had a closer look, but there are small issues to be resolved still.
Hopefully it will achieve outline planning and the issues can be resolved at detail level.

Fred2

February 2nd, 2007, 12:16 AM

di Livio

February 4th, 2007, 06:45 PM

A widgy new image of Eastgate.
If only the convention was taking place in London. Anyone in Cannes anytime soon?

http://www.mipim.com/images/100517/pictures/leeds_78x78_mipim2007.jpg
Retail and regeneration key focus for Location Leeds
8 January 2007

Leeds will be displaying its impressive retail credentials at MIPIM 2007 where it will take a dedicated exhibition stand for the first time.

The city will showcase plans for the Eastgate & Harewood Quarter, a £700 million retail-led development, which will create over 1 million sq ft of brand new retail space in Leeds. A joint venture by Hammerson and Leeds-based Town Centre Securities, the development will reinforce the city’s position as one of the UK’s prime shopping destinations.

A planning application has already been submitted for the landmark scheme, anchored by a new 260,000 sq ft John Lewis department store and designed by internationally renowned architect Sir Terry Farrell. Work is expected to start on site in 2009 with completion scheduled for 2012.

Location Leeds, the marketing umbrella under which the city promotes itself at MIPIM, will also be showcasing Holbeck Urban Village, a major regeneration programme which aims to create a new business and residential quarter close to the city centre.

The urban village is expected to attract investment of up to £800 million and work has already started on Greenbank, a residential development of 700 apartments by George Wimpey City. Early in 2007, Isis will start work on a mixed-use redevelopment of Granary Wharf featuring three buildings set in a waterfront location and combining apartments, a hotel and retail space.

Elsewhere within the urban village, work has started on phase two of the Round Foundry, a mixed use development featuring buildings designed to meet the highest environmental standards. In a unique collaboration, city living specialist K.W.Linfoot Plc and design-led property developer YOO have also started on the first phase of a new residential development at Manor Mills.

JOliver

February 5th, 2007, 01:39 AM

...and work has already started on Greenbank, a residential development of 700 apartments by George Wimpey City...

If only...

SimCity4

February 5th, 2007, 09:06 PM

they defently made a mistake there

jimbo

February 5th, 2007, 11:50 PM

they defently made a mistake there

they probably just meant the marketing suite. Good to see Leeds get such a good centrepiece at MIPIM. All our property guys go out there for the booze and connections, damn them.

Even Flow

February 9th, 2007, 01:13 PM

there are still some things to iron out........

but................ it's a goer........:banana: :banana:
Outline planning achieved, work to strart 2009 hopefully.

di Livio

February 9th, 2007, 03:00 PM

but................ it's a goer........:banana: :banana:
Outline planning achieved, work to strart 2009 hopefully.

Cool.

Not especially relevant, but i did notice CABE or RIBA had mentioned the split level in the galleria seemed more like a conventional shopping centre, like the Bullring, rather than a large, covered public space like the Galleria Vittorio Emanuelle in Milan. I'd prefer more public space tbh. If you look at Paradise Street in L'pool, they have a large green space in the middle of the development, oh, and a tower designed by Cesar Pelli.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Martin_S/DevelopmentSummary/Liverpool%20One/L1-Pelli.jpg

Any chance of the individual buildings in Eastgate being designed by someone a bit more impressive than Carey Jones or DLA?

di Livio

February 9th, 2007, 03:33 PM

Hammerson, Town Centre Sec says awarded Leeds' project planning permission
02.09.07, 5:10 AM ET

LONDON (AFX) - Hammerson PLC and Town Centre Securities PLC's said they have been awarded planning permission by Leeds Council to regenerate a major site in the centre of Leeds.

Hammerson and Town Centre Securities submitted a planning application in July 2006 and a development agreement for the scheme was signed with the council in December last year.

Construction is due to begin in 2009, with completion scheduled for 2012. The total cost of the development is estimated at 675 mln stg, of which Hammerson's 90 pct share would amount to 610 mln stg.

The 100,000 m2 retail-led scheme is being developed in a 90:10 joint venture between Hammerson and Leeds-based property company Town Centre Securities. The scheme will be anchored by a 24,000 m2 John Lewis store and will include over 100 retail units...

silverriver

February 9th, 2007, 03:41 PM

are there any caveats/amendments? (i really hope they have to keep the chinatown) or is it too early a stage for that sort of thing...?

Even Flow

February 9th, 2007, 04:07 PM

£700m city complex gets go-ahead

Planned new John Lewis store in Leeds.

« Previous « PreviousNext » Next »
View GalleryBy David Marsh Municipal Reporter
A £700m complex that will create up to 5,000 jobs and change the face of Leeds city centre has been given the go-ahead.
The huge development will include a John Lewis department store and more than 100 smaller shops.
It will be a major boost to the city's reputation as one of the UK's top shopping destinations.
Members of the council's city centre plans panel last night approved in principle the scheme.
It also includes 600 homes, 2,700 car parking spaces, offices, a gym, cinema, medical centre, creche, hotel, a church drop-in centre, restaurants, cafes and bars.
They gave planning officials authority to formally approve the application once conditions covering a range of issues including transport, highways and affordable housing had been agreed with the developer, the Leeds Partnership – a joint venture between Hammerson UK Properties and Town Centre Securities.
Inquiry
Details of the project will now be sent to Local Government and Communities secretary Ruth Kelly.
Providing she does not "call in" the planning permission for a public inquiry, work could start early next year and it is expected to take about four years.
The development will be built on a 25-acre site taking in land either side of Eastgate and bounded by Vicar Lane, New York Street, St Peter's Street, George Street and Harewood Street.
A key feature will be a new arcade which will run from Vicar Lane to the John Lewis store and be half the length of Briggate and twice the height of the Victoria Quarter.
The so-called "bookend" buildings at the bottom of Eastgate will be retained, although re-located 12 metres further up Eastgate.
The buildings on the north side of the street designed by Sir Reginald Blomfield will be retained, but the 1960s built terrace on the south side will be demolished.
Pedestrianised
Eastgate will be pedestrianised and a new public square created around the former petrol station, now a fountain.
Kevin Grady, Leeds Civic Trust director, said the trust supported many aspects of the plan but was concerned about the amount of demolition, particularly of Circle House and the Lyons works building. He said the scheme did not contain enough green space.
He added it could "destroy the embryonic Chinatown that was developing in the area."
Other objectors said the site of the John Lewis store was outside the city's prime shopping area and they were concerned at the impact it might have on the city's traditional shopping heart.
John Richards, Chief Executive of developers Hammerson plc, said: "This is a significant milestone for the Eastgate and Harewood project."
Edward Ziff, chairman and chief executive at Town Centre Securities, added: "The regeneration will bring a rundown area of the city into public use, by providing a fantastic living, working and recreational environment."
Leader of Leeds City Council and executive member for development, Coun Andrew Carter, said: "We are confident we now have a scheme that is one of the most bold and innovative developments Leeds has seen for many years."
But Coun Jim McKenna (Labour, Armley) said the development was not sufficiently well connected to Quarry Hill and voted to reject the application.
The panel agreed four to two to approve the planning principle.

Comment
Last Updated: 09 February 2007
http://www.leedstoday.net/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleID=2037746&SectionID=39

I said it wasnt cut and dried..............the main thing is it's approved though.

di Livio

February 9th, 2007, 04:11 PM

http://editorial.jpress.co.uk/web/Upload/LEED//TH1_92200725JOHN-LEWIS-1.jpg..

Val Verde

February 9th, 2007, 04:24 PM

Good news regarding the development of Eastgate. When is it planned to commence is it 2009 or will it begin sooner than this? Couldn't understand the following quote though:

But Coun Jim McKenna (Labour, Armley) said the development was not sufficiently well connected to Quarry Hill and voted to reject the application.

I wonder why he blocked the application surely the development of Eastgate would bridge the gap between the city core and Quarry Hill and should enable spin off developments to occur there which have been ludicrously long in achiving.

Also will we hear anything regarding any other anchor tenants for Eastgate other than John Lewis as I remember that there is to be two department stores for this site with Selfridges originally to occupy the other site. With Selfridges now cancelling their expansion wouldn't we see someone else come along perhaps a relocation of House of Fraser which I read were intreseted in doing or perhaps someone more interesting? Still quite critical regarding the demolition of the China Town as I believe much of the buildings there should certainly be retained as opposed to demolished and would add so much character to this development.

onix

February 9th, 2007, 04:51 PM

Subliving

February 9th, 2007, 05:16 PM

The so-called "bookend" buildings at the bottom of Eastgate will be retained, although re-located 12 metres further up Eastgate.

Eh?

Subliving.

Monsoon

February 9th, 2007, 05:26 PM

ahh, yes they mentioned that at the public consultation, there going to put jacks under, and move them!

Subliving

February 9th, 2007, 05:31 PM

ahh, yes they mentioned that at the public consultation, there going to put jacks under, and move them!

Err, am I being stupidly gullible here? Are they seriously going to do that?

Subliving.

jimbo

February 9th, 2007, 06:03 PM

..

ha, that sums up TCS's risk taking approach. A joint venture normally goes along the lines of 50:50, occasionally for big schemes going to 70:30 in favour of the bigger developer who can absorb the risk. 90:10? Bloody hell, its hardly worth it, and for Hammerson, TCS's involvement mitigates virtually nothing. That said, Hammerson are up there with Land Sec and British Land, and no doubt bullish enough about this to proceed with this current structure.

As for TCS, well, I've said this before, but look at their flagship scheme on Whitehall Road. Only building with pre-lets confirmed, and now to be trumped by Wellington Place and definately HBG at Monksbridge Works, the latter on site and digging around in the mud before the first offices come on stream in late 2008. The TCS Whitehall Road site is still a car park, and the cracking multicoloured frontage office building infront of the Cobbetts offices is currently a landscaped, grassed over plot with advertising hoardings.

Yes, the bookends are to be jacked up and moved up the hill. Not the first time something like this has been done, and we should applaud the fact that they are so integral to the scheme.

It'll take several years to sort out the current tenants, issue compulsory purchase orders and the like, and then clear it all. This is positive news, but a shame its not a 2008 start.

Its still too early to start hearing about pre-lets for the other retail units I think. Clearly John Lewis have a long term store strategy, but for other established retailers, this scheme is out in the medium to long term, i.e. virtually 5 years till effective completion, so doubt they'll yet be actively signing up. Could be wrong though.

Ruth Kelly - a name to send shivers up the spine. This has none of the big issues like the impact on viewing corridors of St Pauls Cathedral, or 150m towers next to the River Thames that she normally gets involved in. Yes, the issues re: the old church, Chinatown and the Lyons Building are material, but I understood the planning application was quite sympathetic and sought to retain some of these (definitely the church?!?)

There's been an embryonic Chinatown there for 20 years, and its still embryonic. That's a bollocks argument by the Civic Trust. This developments plus points far outweight the couple of negative issues.

Monsoon

February 9th, 2007, 06:05 PM

hydraulic jacks i presume..

di Livio

February 12th, 2007, 03:07 PM

There's been an embryonic Chinatown there for 20 years, and its still embryonic. That's a bollocks argument by the Civic Trust. This developments plus points far outweight the couple of negative issues.

It could actually make the Chinatown more important to the city core if it moves towards Vicar Lane and updates its facilities. At the moment it's unequivocally minging, imagine what our friends from Hangzou would make of Lady Lane in its current state.
However I'm sad to see the quirky Chinatown Arcade bite the dust.

Rob

February 13th, 2007, 09:54 PM

hydraulic jacks i presume..

I would think too heavy. It won't be like one of those wooden mansions or churches you see on 'Monstermoves', I think it's normal to dismantle in these circumstances.

I could be wrong though, there may be equipment out there that will do it.

Fred2

February 14th, 2007, 02:08 AM

It could actually make the Chinatown more important to the city core if it moves towards Vicar Lane and updates its facilities. At the moment it's unequivocally minging, imagine what our friends from Hangzou would make of Lady Lane in its current state.
However I'm sad to see the quirky Chinatown Arcade bite the dust.

There really isn't enough in Leeds to make a proper Chinatown. Anyway one Chinese shop has relocated to Vicar Lane where there are now three empty shops adjacent and another a bit lower down.

Leeds No.1

February 14th, 2007, 08:02 PM

There really isn't enough in Leeds to make a proper Chinatown. Anyway one Chinese shop has relocated to Vicar Lane where there are now three empty shops adjacent and another a bit lower down.

Enough what?

Fred2

February 14th, 2007, 09:14 PM

Enough what?

Enough Chinese shops/restaurants etc. in one area to form a proper focus.

Leeds No.1

February 14th, 2007, 09:30 PM

There are enough to have a small chinese district in the city centre; and if you were to attract chinese outlets from across the whole city, a china town similar to that of any city could be formed.

Fred2

February 14th, 2007, 09:35 PM

There are enough to have a small chinese district in the city centre; and if you were to attract chinese outlets from across the whole city, a china town similar to that of any city could be formed.

Is there really all that much more than this (admittedly taken nearly two years ago)?

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q281/nosmo2/PIC00672.jpg

Leeds No.1

February 14th, 2007, 10:02 PM

Theres the chinese arcade, and the 3? Chinese Supermarkets.

Fred2

February 14th, 2007, 10:11 PM

Theres the chinese arcade, and the 3? Chinese Supermarkets.

So how many shops/restaurants/ are there altogether?
And how does the Chinese population here compare with that in Manchester or Liverpool? There is a small Chinese community centre on North Street.

Val Verde

February 14th, 2007, 10:39 PM

leeds the best

February 14th, 2007, 10:42 PM

Fred2

February 14th, 2007, 10:50 PM

Isn't it true that when Leeds had made a twinning with Hangzhou in China that they recieved a China town gate as a gift but had nowhere to put it hence been left somewhere in storage at an undisclosed location unless someone could tell me otherwise (picture below shows Manchesters entrance gate).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/Manchester_Chinatown.jpg/450px-Manchester_Chinatown.jpg

Also what was the original reason for flattening much of the land to the east of Vicar Lane for nothing except car parking surely leaving such land barren for so long has affected that areas prospects until recently with the planned Eastgate quarter.

That land has been vacant for years.
I know for certain that the original buildings on Templar Street were demolished in 1907 (i.e. a century ago) and have never been built on since. Nearly same time lag for the land south of Eastgate. There used to be municipal baths on Union Street at one time. A scheme for 4 storey retail, hotel, and flats in Harewood Street was approved in October 2000. That was a TCS development but when Hammerson came on the scene with the north side of Eastgate under its belt a joint development of the whole area was then decided.

Leeds No.1

February 14th, 2007, 11:46 PM

aviator

February 14th, 2007, 11:52 PM

..............And how does the Chinese population here compare with that in Manchester or Liverpool?

3447, according to the last census

Fred2

February 14th, 2007, 11:54 PM

I dunno but Newcastle has a bit of a Chinatown thing going on. Yes Leeds is twinned with Hangzhou and theres the Hangzhou festival thing in Leeds, or at least there used to be. Chinese Lanterns are usually strung across lots of streets, and always Lands Lane.

Away from the number of chinese establishments in this area, there's also lots of chinese restaurants around town that are popular and Im sure would show interest. Maxi's and Wokmania are clearly some of the main ones.

Of course there are a number of Chinese restaurants dotted all over the city but a proper Chinatown must surely entail a reasonable number of Chinese establishments/stores in one street or nearby streets ? What there now is in Templar Lane in the old Lyons tailoring factory is but a pale reflection of what such a place should be like. To me it does not constitute a Chinatown.

The Oil

February 15th, 2007, 01:54 AM

So wheres the gate now ? mmmm..
A possible chinatown sis needed somewhere maybe at the north end of chapletown the one closest to the city centre to add to the great food places on that side of the city.

The Gate is in storage, it's too big to put anywhere. It's 15 metres tall apparently. Embarrassing considering we've had it for years and it's a gift from a twin city. I asked about it during the presentation for the Harewood quarter and was told it would be used in the development. We'll see...

di Livio

February 15th, 2007, 03:11 PM

rhinomatt

February 15th, 2007, 05:06 PM

I agree that it could be done! However I must say that I am a big fan of integration and intergenerational communication. Therefore I do not know whether I could support this. Chinese businesses alike all other ethnic minority businesses should be encouraged to be part of the city CBD instead of sticking together. I mean people often complain that ethnic minorities take over communities and stick together but people seem to support this in business terms. So I say have no china town and just have Town!

Rob

February 15th, 2007, 08:41 PM

The Gate is in storage, it's too big to put anywhere. It's 15 metres tall apparently. Embarrassing considering we've had it for years and it's a gift from a twin city. I asked about it during the presentation for the Harewood quarter and was told it would be used in the development. We'll see...

That's great if it's true. This is an excellant opportunity for a decent Chinatown to start if hosted by part of this huge scheme. Also a great opportunity for the developers if they could see it .. the colour and originality of having a Chinatown as part of the outdoor complex is a great opportunity.

Not sure that I agree with you Rhinomat (but fully respect your view). I like to see some diversity, society is being pushed into being very clone-like in trying to make everyone the same. I like to see some cultural variety and I think it sparks life up a bit.

Val Verde

February 15th, 2007, 09:55 PM

There's a small nucleus of Chinese businesses around Templar Lane. If they were properly housed and marketed, a small Chinatown could develop. I guess you need restaurants to make it work properly.

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/56/5556.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/48/3848.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/37/5437.jpg

Look at all those buildings full of life and everything. Granted whilst manufacturing would obviously have declined but its a shame they did not have any forward thinking back then to just convert such spaces into retail, offices, homes etc and could potentially have been made as a really vibrant east end of the city centre which is so clearly lost when it was a flattened for nothing but car parking. :ohno:

Shame really although there is Eastgate to look forward to which should be good and with regards the point by Di Livio made earlier regarding the mix of architects for the scheme would obviously be a good idea in that it would create variety in the buildings to create varied spaces that act like genuine streets as opposed to generic polar white shopping centres (re: Leeds Shopping Plaza, St Johns Centre, White Rose Centre). Does anyone know the total number of stores that will roughly open in this development too?

Leeds No.1

February 15th, 2007, 10:09 PM

Its meant to be about 100 new stores isnt it? Well "over 100" so that really means somewhere between 100-110 I think.

The Leeds Shopping Plaza and Headrow Centres are true shopping centres, but the St. John's Centre is more of a covered street in shopping-centre format. ie its a major through route from Lands Lane/The Headrow to Merrion Street and onto the Merrion Centre.

The Oil

February 16th, 2007, 01:17 AM

That's great if it's true.

Why Rob, are you questioning the validity of my information?:)

No great detective work on my part, it was in the YEP (although I would question the validity of anything they write!) about 6 months ago.

joeyB_86

February 16th, 2007, 03:02 AM

Fred2

February 16th, 2007, 11:07 AM

I think there needs to be a hell of a lot made of the relocation of china town. It is essential to the diversity of the city that china town is given a good location. Given the news about the chinese gate as well, it seams like a chinese quater could be a distinct possibility for the city (I say quater i mean thirty second as it wouldn't be nearly big enough to encoperate a quater or eighth or even sixteenth, hehe). Given the diversity around the top half of the city (especially merion market), surely there could be made enough room here to see a china town blossom. Or if not a china town, maybe we could see the blossoming of a truely internationalist quater; that would be amazing!!!

joe

As I have stated before, there is already a Chinese shop on Vicar Lane. There are two or three adjacent empty shops puls the Grand Arcade. Taken together and actively encouraged, this could form the nucleus of some sort of a Leeds Chinatown. It would bring life back to that area and especially the arcade.

joeyB_86

February 16th, 2007, 03:19 PM

Yeh it would be nice to see it there but I would like to see more of an internationalist zone rather then a half arsed cluster of chinese shops/ restuarants. It seams like most of the developement in this area (that is Eastgate) is very ordinary. Its good to get new department stores and retail units and all (For jobs and that) but you have to ask what it does for the city as a community. I'd much rather have a vibrant internationalist shopping quater, bringing together the main international identities that have made Leeds their home. I think a China Town as part of this would be excellent and truely unique. Eastgate of course will bring jobs and Im sure it will look pretty but really; who needs more fastfood, coffee shops, nexts, topshops and all your other basic shops. I think we should aim for something more exciting and exuberant.

Joe

:banana:

Fred2

February 16th, 2007, 04:21 PM

joeyB_86

February 16th, 2007, 05:04 PM

yeh true! I wasn't really talking about scrapping the Eastgate scheme and starting another. I just think that if such scheme is given the go ahead, a lot of money needs to be put into saving the little man.

Joe

Fred2

February 16th, 2007, 06:39 PM

Rob

February 16th, 2007, 08:52 PM

Why Rob, are you questioning the validity of my information?:)

I'm questioning the validity of the developer's imagination and vision, and desire to carry through what they say (I didn't doubt your information for one second).

The Oil

February 17th, 2007, 01:36 AM

Tell that to the developers.

Don't bother, they're not interested.

If you're after an area of Leeds that could house independent, ecletic eateries from around the world look no further than the Merrion Market. It's already started, I bet the rent is dirt cheap, how good would it be to walk in there to find every stall or plot taken by food stores or cafes from various cultures. At the moment it's half dead but it could be brilliant.

Fred2

February 17th, 2007, 08:53 PM

Don't bother, they're not interested.

If you're after an area of Leeds that could house independent, ecletic eateries from around the world look no further than the Merrion Market. It's already started, I bet the rent is dirt cheap, how good would it be to walk in there to find every stall or plot taken by food stores or cafes from various cultures. At the moment it's half dead but it could be brilliant.

Admittedly, I haven't visited the Merrion Market for a few weeks, but it wasn't exactly an exciting place to visit then and I doubt it has much improved in that short time scale. It seems that markets in general are not thriving in Leeds. In the lower part of Kirkgate Market, in particular, there are now many empty stalls giving it a very sad and despondent air.

joeyB_86

February 17th, 2007, 09:42 PM

Fred, remember that the area around Merion market is going to be one of the most developed area in the next three years; and all of this will be student developments. Students would go mental for an area with vintage clothes and authentic international cooking. Look at Hyde park for example. Given the right advertising and investment, Merion market could be a great pull for the area and revitalise the old, perhaps outdated, market system.

Fred2

February 17th, 2007, 10:49 PM

Subliving

February 17th, 2007, 11:18 PM

If it's going to rely on students only for its success it will only be busy two thirds of the year.

Well they're okay then! Most shops rely on the Christmas period to tide them over until towards the end of Spring. Similar scenario wouldn't you say?

Pre-Christmas, my small boutique in Victoria, London, was taking £98k per week. After Christmas, they are struggling to break £15k a week. Same goes for the Leeds store, although the figures were more like £120k and £20k.

Subliving.

aviator

February 18th, 2007, 12:43 AM

Admittedly, I haven't visited the Merrion Market for a few weeks, but it wasn't exactly an exciting place to visit then and I doubt it has much improved in that short time scale. It seems that markets in general are not thriving in Leeds. In the lower part of Kirkgate Market, in particular, there are now many empty stalls giving it a very sad and despondent air.

Fred, mon vieux, you've often raised the issue of the number of empty market stalls. But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If you're trying to point out the way that the shopping patterns of the citizens of Leeds are changing, then I'm with you. If you trying to suggest that the number of empty markets stalls is indicative of a decline, then I part company with you.

aviator

February 18th, 2007, 12:44 AM

Admittedly, I haven't visited the Merrion Market for a few weeks, but it wasn't exactly an exciting place to visit then and I doubt it has much improved in that short time scale. It seems that markets in general are not thriving in Leeds. In the lower part of Kirkgate Market, in particular, there are now many empty stalls giving it a very sad and despondent air.

Fred, mon vieux, you've often raised the issue of the number of empty market stalls. But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If you're trying to point out the way that the shopping patterns of the citizens of Leeds are changing, then I'm with you. If you're trying to suggest that the number of empty markets stalls is indicative of a decline in the city's retail offer, then I part company with you.

The Oil

February 18th, 2007, 01:16 AM

Admittedly, I haven't visited the Merrion Market for a few weeks, but it wasn't exactly an exciting place to visit then and I doubt it has much improved in that short time scale. It seems that markets in general are not thriving in Leeds. In the lower part of Kirkgate Market, in particular, there are now many empty stalls giving it a very sad and despondent air.

It's not an exciting place to visit now but with a bit of vision it could be great.

I must have been reading this forum for too long because I was thinking about the voice of doom known as Fred2 today. Kirkgate Market was absolutley HEAVING about 1pm. Where are these empty stalls you bang on about? In the outside bit? You exaggerate the decline of the market to the point of becoming a parody of yourself.

Fred2

February 18th, 2007, 02:34 AM

Fred, mon vieux, you've often raised the issue of the number of empty market stalls. But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If you're trying to point out the way that the shopping patterns of the citizens of Leeds are changing, then I'm with you. If you're trying to suggest that the number of empty markets stalls is indicative of a decline in the city's retail offer, then I part company with you.

It is probably the former reason though rents the Council charge for stalls is a big factor - see my reply to OIL.

Fred2

February 18th, 2007, 02:39 AM

It's not an exciting place to visit now but with a bit of vision it could be great.

I must have been reading this forum for too long because I was thinking about the voice of doom known as Fred2 today. Kirkgate Market was absolutley HEAVING about 1pm. Where are these empty stalls you bang on about? In the outside bit? You exaggerate the decline of the market to the point of becoming a parody of yourself.

I suggest visit during the week especially Tuesday which is supposed to be market day. The empty stalls (at least ten) are mostly at the bottom end of the covered market. I even went into the market office to ask why there are so many empty stalls and a bloke there suggested it was a combination of factors the most important of which was the high rents charged by the Council.

Leeds No.1

February 18th, 2007, 02:48 AM

Id say the market was quite a thriving place to be honest. It should only get better with development in the east, ie more people going to the east other than just to go to the market/bus station/WYPlayhouse.

The Oil

February 18th, 2007, 03:02 AM

I suggest visit during the week especially Tuesday which is supposed to be market day. The empty stalls (at least ten) are mostly at the bottom end of the covered market. I even went into the market office to ask why there are so many empty stalls and a bloke there suggested it was a combination of factors the most important of which was the high rents charged by the Council.

10???? On a Tuesday? Is that all? Out of how many?

Frederico, get out of your self indulgent I'm-dead-old mentality. Market Day doesn't exist anymore. If it did, i, like many on this forum, would have a half day each week. I put it to you that your descriptions of the demise of Leeds Market are HUGELY exaggerated.

Leeds No.1

February 18th, 2007, 03:05 AM

Tuesday is just as much of a market day than any other day except Wednesday and Sunday isnt it?

The Oil

February 18th, 2007, 03:39 AM

Tuesday is just as much of a market day than any other day except Wednesday and Sunday isnt it?

Unsurprisingly No1 I think you're missing my point. Nobody bemoans the death of the Victoria Quarter when some shops stand empty, as they do. The Market is THRIVING.

Leeds No.1

February 18th, 2007, 10:54 AM

I think its quite the opposite actually. The point that tuesday is just as much of a market day as every other day (except wednesday/sunday where it closes earlier) is meant to say that the market is thriving.

And btw, there are about 800 stalls on Kirkgate Market, and about 40 outside. So 10/800.

LeedsLad

February 18th, 2007, 12:07 PM

So are we guessing at the demolition of the 'Shellys' building, and the Headrow centre being extended to form a complete rectangle floorplate?

I think what would make the centre infinitely more successful would be for a main entrance to be where HMV currently stands, so that people could flow through more easily from the Headrow to Central Square. At the moment for me it's always a cheeky short cut through HMV, down the escalators and out...

Fred2

February 18th, 2007, 01:06 PM

10???? On a Tuesday? Is that all? Out of how many?

Frederico, get out of your self indulgent I'm-dead-old mentality. Market Day doesn't exist anymore. If it did, i, like many on this forum, would have a half day each week. I put it to you that your descriptions of the demise of Leeds Market are HUGELY exaggerated.

Well OIL, I bet I visit the market more often than you - but usually on weekdays and have been doing for some years. The lower part is certainly NOT thriving as it once was. And yes my eyesight is perfectly good !
Next time I do go, not only will I will count the number of empty stalls, but I shall get the correct number from the market office.

Leeds No.1

February 18th, 2007, 01:16 PM

Id say it still was a thriving place; although to an extent I agree that not as much as at one time. I remember having to spend hours being dragged round the market, and it was more lively than it is now. But I would still say its a very lively place; probably just not doing as well at the moment because of the improvement of the high-street and the new glitz and vibrancy of Leeds City Centre has put the market in a shadow. For the moment. I believe it will become a more vibrant place when the Eastgate Qtr is completed. Footfall will be higher in the area.

The market could do with a revival to wipe away the stereotypical idea of a market and bring it into line as a great market, like it should be. More attention could be drawn to the architecture of the Edwardian Hall. I bet most people never look up to the roof in there. Oh and they could do with banning smoking in there.

In my experience, people don't go to the market because:
-It's considered cheap and tacky
-Fear of crime
-Dirty
-Out of the way (Unless people are going to the bus station or CornX, I dont think people really go across to the other side of Vicar Lane.

I think the centre of the core has gradually shifted west- for me at least, I go to the west of the city centre far more than I ever used to. Possibly because of The Light/Station/Millennium Square/Places to eat.

Val Verde

February 18th, 2007, 01:49 PM

Don't bother, they're not interested.

If you're after an area of Leeds that could house independent, ecletic eateries from around the world look no further than the Merrion Market. It's already started, I bet the rent is dirt cheap, how good would it be to walk in there to find every stall or plot taken by food stores or cafes from various cultures. At the moment it's half dead but it could be brilliant.

Yes it is an area that desperately needs investment but why couldn't they expand such independent alternative type stores along the largely derelict Kirkgate to the bottom of the Market? Surely doing that would provide an expansion for the Corn Exchange and could make it into Leeds's equivalent of Camden Town and could act as a tourist attraction?

Liam

February 18th, 2007, 02:18 PM

Fred2

February 18th, 2007, 03:27 PM

Nationally, markets are in decline and that's a fact. Leeds' market seems as though it's future for now is safe. It's use can only increase with an increasing population within the city centre....correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe, but I recently visited Huddersfield Market and found it excellent. Dewsbury Market was mentioned in the paper only the other day as having won some sort of award.

Fred2

February 20th, 2007, 02:50 PM

di Livio

February 20th, 2007, 02:58 PM

Re my posting #452 and the attack on me by OIL (Frederico, get out of your self indulgent I'm-dead-old mentality!) and No. 1, I went down to the market this am. There are nearly 30 empty (permanent) stalls in the lower part of the covered market. That's quite a high percentage of that particular area of the market. Even higher up, a quarter of the butchers stalls in Butcher's Row are empty. Kirkgate Market is NOT thriving !

But does it need to be thriving all the time to rake in a profit?
There are lots of stores in Leeds that survive without making money every day of the week (I think Aviator mentioned Tiger of Sweden as an example of this).

Fred2

February 20th, 2007, 05:05 PM

But does it need to be thriving all the time to rake in a profit?
There are lots of stores in Leeds that survive without making money every day of the week (I think Aviator mentioned Tiger of Sweden as an example of this).

Tiger, no doubt, depends on low volume high value turnover - the opposite of the market !

di Livio

February 20th, 2007, 05:55 PM

Val Verde

February 20th, 2007, 05:57 PM

So what do you suggest to revitalise Kirkgate Market then Fred?

Whilst it is a strong asset for Leeds they should certainly broaden the clientele using Kirkgate and they should include stuff such as world foods, ethical foods (eg: fair trade / organic / free range / carbon neutral), more independent clothing which as I mentioned before could expand the sort of ideas behind the Corn Exchange into Kirkgate Market and perhaps for the snob in me open a nice espressso bar or two. :D Finally do they still allow smoking in the market buildings?

Surely to have the best market then you should have something for everyone something I believe Kirkgate lacks as it still ponders to that typical working class demographic that traditionally used markets in the past but today uses supermarkets. Surely they would need something different to entice people back.

Leeds No.1

February 20th, 2007, 06:29 PM

Ok, bad example. But if, say, you;re a flower seller in the market, you're never going to be selling a large quantity of flowers every day of the week. Maybe Friday and Saturday sales are enough to keep you in business.

The future of the Markets interests me a great deal. Will it continue as a viable 'working-class' space, or will it, in time, become another middle-class space like VQ. I've heard the Arndale market in Manchester has gone 'upmarket' recently, and there's an indoor farmers market doing good business in London. The markets hall end of the market would be a good location for atracting the middle-class pound.

The VQ is not middle-class, it is very high class! Middle class=The Light I would say; and thats the top end of middle class (lower class being common high street).

I wouldnt want the market, or at least not all of the market, to become "upmarket". It needs to retain character. Fairtrade, Organic, Ethnic etc would all be good to keep the market going. The market however has been moving upmarket I have noticed. Some stalls are less market like now and better furnished. Particularly on the eastern side of the Edwardian Hall. There are also some units towards the bottom that are quite good- Liberty's Cafe, Panasonic, Greggs, Ainsleys; these have all gentrified the market. I realise these aren't high class brands but its the concept of them! Chains and units that look "good".

I dont know if smoking is allowed in the market, but if it isnt, people certainly take no notice of it.

Fred2

February 20th, 2007, 07:17 PM

So what do you suggest to revitalise Kirkgate Market then Fred?

Well, excessively high rents (and some repressive restrictions) on the part of the Council may, as I have mentioned, be a factor. If so, they are cutting off their nose etc..... All I know is that other markets (I have also already mentioned Huddersfield and Dewsbury of the local ones) seem to be doing well and appear to me to be more attractive - without necessarily going upmarket and catering for the more moneyed classes.

Val Verde

February 20th, 2007, 07:28 PM

Well, excessively high rents (and some repressive restrictions) on the part of the Council may, as I have mentioned, be a factor. If so, they are cutting off their nose etc..... All I know is that other markets (I have also already mentioned Huddersfield and Dewsbury of the local ones) seem to be doing well and appear to me to be more attractive - without necessarily going upmarket and catering for the more moneyed classes.

Whilst I agree with you that charging high rents for Kirkgate Market are in effect a shot in the foot do you believe they should broaden the clientele of Kirkgate Market should encourage higher footfall and hence a revitalisation of the market and create a market that is relevant for the 21st Century. Also whats happened to plans to replace the supposedly temporary 1970s Market buildings? I know the market is one of your pet issues on this forum and have you ever e-mailed Leeds City Council about the concerns regarding the market?

Fred2

February 20th, 2007, 07:59 PM

Whilst I agree with you that charging high rents for Kirkgate Market are in effect a shot in the foot do you believe they should broaden the clientele of Kirkgate Market should encourage higher footfall and hence a revitalisation of the market and create a market that is relevant for the 21st Century. Also whats happened to plans to replace the supposedly temporary 1970s Market buildings? I know the market is one of your pet issues on this forum and have you ever e-mailed Leeds City Council about the concerns regarding the market?

Perhaps as a first step they should contact Huddersfield and Dewsbury to see what they are doing right in running successful markets ! Of course the so-called temporary market should long ago have been replaced ! I am sure the city council is regularly contacted by the traders in the market. It is, after all, their very livelihood that is at stake and of great concern to them. My interest, as that of everyone else here, is more general and is to do with the overall success of the city -particularly as a retail centre.

di Livio

February 21st, 2007, 04:05 PM

The VQ is not middle-class, it is very high class! Middle class=The Light I would say; and thats the top end of middle class (lower class being common high street).

Trust me, i know quite a bit about class. People tend to develope a class consciousness when they leave home. VQ is also often about people living beyond their means by buying on credit.

Subliving

February 21st, 2007, 04:15 PM

In my experience, I would only half agree with you on that point, di Livio. Working there for a long time, you can sense who actually has the money to be in there, and those that are there as an aspiration and goal. I'd say it's split fairly evenly into those two camps. However, there are plenty of people in there who truly can afford just to drop 5k in a store without blinking. I know, because I recieved the commission from this type of sale every day of the week throughout last year.

Subliving.

Monsoon

February 26th, 2007, 05:36 PM

CABE's comments:
www.cabe.org.uk/default.aspx?contentitemid=1766&refid=365&sl=3.2.3&field=drr_search&term=Yorkshire%20and%20Humber,%20Leeds%20City%20Council&type=7&addparams=%26dr_string%3d%2band%2b(ci.regions%2blike%2b'Yorkshire%2band%2bHumber')%2band%2b(ci.LocalAuthority%2blike%2b'Leeds%2bCity%2bCouncil')%26refid%3d365%26sl%3d3.2.3

Eastgate

Review date: 04 January 2007

Lead designer: Terry Farrell Partnership

Client: Hammerson

Local authority: Leeds City Council

Location: Templar Street and Harewood Quarter, Leeds.

Region: Yorkshire and Humber

Description: Large new retail and residential development with associated services and car parking.

Summary

We support the aspirations of this project to develop a diverse, mixed-use and integrated new quarter within a neglected part of Leeds. The site analysis has been carefully considered and many of the issues raised in the CABE publication Design Reviewed: Town Centre Retail have been acknowledged and addressed. Whilst we welcome much of the scheme’s design approach and acknowledge the positive moves to integrate this new area of development with its surroundings, we have some concerns. We feel that the inevitable tendency for retail-led proposals to focus inwardly has created some areas of weak connectivity with the city around it; the multi-level Galleria space is of particular concern in this regard. With a scheme of this importance it is regretful that it is subject of an outline application only.
Connectivity

We welcome the improvements made to connectivity through and around the site as it exists through Lady Lane and Eastgate with the town centre and Quarry Hill, and the sensitivity to the historic street patterns. We feel that the proposal is based upon sound principles of integration; however, there are some areas where it could be more robustly pursued. We note that the underlying conflict between an inward looking shopping centre and a traditional city street pattern plays its part in undermining efforts to integrate the development into the city.

Given the location of the ring road at its northern edge we are not surprised to observe that the development turns its back to the north. However, we feel that the architects will need to make more of existing connections, since it is unlikely that any others will be introduced due to the presence of the ring road, indeed the underpass might become an important entrance to the site. The ring road already makes a significant negative impact on the city and the site, and we would urge the architects to consider carefully how to avoid reinforcing this considerable barrier; for example both department stores and multi-storey car parks are types that tend to generate forbidding and unanimated elevations and the presence of both on or next to this northern edge is not reassuring. We would urge the architects and client to think carefully about the location of the anchor store.
Levels

Given the significant changes in level across the site, we recognise the considerable challenge of integrating a retail proposal. Broadly speaking we feel that the scheme successfully introduces a convincing urban grain to the site and uses it to tackle the changing levels. For example, we welcome the way that the area to the south of Eastgate seeks to reinforce the connectivity between Kirkgate and the city centre, and intelligently resolves the issues of the level change.

In our view, the Galleria and the north-south covered street are less successful. With three levels of balconies, all integrating at street level in different locations, we consider this to be less like an arcade or galleria and more like a shopping mall, albeit with the aspiration to be integrated into the city. There is an inherent challenge in creating a space such as this that feels integrated and part of the city, and in this case the potential to integrate is exacerbated by the changes in levels.
Site axis

The predominance of the Galleria as the primary focus of the development is reinforced by its strong east-west axis running parallel to Eastgate. With the anchor store and car park at the end of this axis and next to the ring road, the development shifts the focus of activity away from its former location on Eastgate and we wonder whether Eastgate should be reinforced and remain as the primary street.
Existing buildings

Broadly speaking we welcome the intelligent and sensitive approach to removing and replacing existing buildings. We accept the removal of the existing ‘bookends’ and their reconstruction slightly further west along Eastgate as a way of retaining the character they afford and their significance to the area.

We welcome the creation of the new Blomfield Square at the intersection of north-south and east-west routes; it also has a promising role in the diagonal desire line to the new department store from the existing shopping areas south-west of the site. The configuration of built form defining the new square and the way it embraces the filling station suggest that it has the potential to become a positive and significant new public space.
Galleria

A traditional arcade or galleria is typically level, meeting a street at each end, and adding to rather than detracting from the permeability of the city. In addition they typically have the quality of an external space due to the use of external finishes for floors and elevations. In this case the galleria forms an entrance to a department store and incorporates several changes of level that are not conducive to creating legible movement network.

We believe that far more clarity is required on the nature of this internal space; which is the main street level and therefore the main route through, and how do the architects intend to characterise it? We think that multi-level walkways and cross bridges are characteristic of internal mall shopping environments rather than a covered or open street pattern. More thought should be given to how the change in level can be exploited to provide better integration.

On a more detailed point, we support the natural ventilation rather than an air-conditioned environment, and would also encourage keeping to a minimum the hours during the night that the Galleria is closed. Given the mix of uses and the likelihood of the Galleria being occupied by different people throughout the day, we feel that there are some management challenges ahead for the Galleria, which will not be made any easier by the many levels.
Multi-storey car park and department store

Our views regarding these two buildings are that as an anchor store, the department store building feels somewhat ‘tucked away’ and should be a much stronger presence rather than the edge of a car park. It is important to ensure that the elevations will not be detrimental to creating attractive places around all its edges and we welcome the intention to reduce the impact of potentially blank walls of both buildings through sculptural wall solutions. Wherever possible the overall permeability of the site should be enhanced by new development. However, we do acknowledge and welcome the increased diversity of use and visitors to this part of the city centre.
Architecture

We note and welcome the design guidelines that will inform the next stages of design but as we have not seen any detailed architecture we cannot comment on this aspect of the proposal yet. We note that the architects recognise the challenge of creating buildings from large blank boxes such as the department store and car park. We also recognise the potentially sculptural form of the Galleria roof.

However, there need to be adequate controls that all of the architecture, which may be done by many hands, lives up to the potential implied so far. And since many parts of this scheme will be viewed from above, the fifth elevation – the roof – will need very careful consideration to manage its impact.
Sustainability

Preparing a masterplan at this scale gives the opportunity to build-in a strategic approach to sustainability, and in particular, energy use. We would recommend strongly that the team addresses these matters at this stage given the inefficient use of energy that is often associated with retail developments. We would also encourage the team to set targets (such as BREEAM/EcoHomes ratings), as the only meaningful way that aspirations can be tested against firm proposals.
Conclusion

Notwithstanding our reservations, we believe that this project has much to offer Leeds. Our one significant regret is that for this important part of the city, the scheme is an outline application, providing restricted assurances on the ultimate quality of this large new development.