http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/2005/week45/inter__cce69754-520d-4e42-90e2-509f27cdc91c_0be66fbf-d89a-49b4-a8a1-821a77a2acc7.pdf From 2005 but maybe still interesting.

I thought i'd put these up again as they seem to have disappeared from the Farrells website.


http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/lightbox/templar_cgi_large.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/lightbox/ladylane_cgi_large.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/lightbox/templar_st2_large.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/lightbox/harewood_cgi_large.jpg

^^ Have to say none of those images really inspire me - seems a bit at odds with the architectural shortslisted names that seem to be coming forward.

They are all just conceptual images. Nothing that will actually be built (I wouldn't have thought)

I dont know if it has been reported but all around this site is being dug up. I would have thought it is to do with either:

a) reruiting and updating gas/electricity/ water suppliers for the eventual scheme
b) the resigning of access to and around the area as was given the go ahead a few months ago.

^^ Those holes in the road have led me to this thread. Intrigued to know why the NCP car park is being dug up. Looks an exciting project. When can we start shopping?

2012 as far as I am aware

Thanks

I have just read a good chunk of the threads, it seems a very exciting project. Is it fair to say it will redefine the city centre of Leeds?

Car parking is already a problem without getting rid of the 2 major car parks for this development. Could cause chaos???

Car parking is already a problem without getting rid of the 2 major car parks for this development. Could cause chaos???

Much of the development on the New York Road side comprises multi-storey car parking. There may actually be more car parking spaces after construction than there are currently.

There will be 1700 car parking spaces. Of course, we should be encouraging public transport :)

I don't think it will redefine the City Centre- I would say this is already in the City Centre. It would be more accurate to say it will redefine the prime shopping core.

I don't think it will redefine the City Centre- I would say this is already in the City Centre. It would be more accurate to say it will redefine the prime shopping core.

As pedantic as Fred there, no.1.

I would say this is already in the City Centre. It would be more accurate to say it will redefine the prime shopping core.

Hahahaha, i think it depends what you mean to redefine I guess. I think it will redefine the city in that "Leeds" will gain a different meaning.

Just imagine, by 2012, a regenerated trinity, plaza, headrow centre, eastgate and trinity, alders, corn exchange, kirkgate market, west end, a finished clarence dock, the growth of the universities and the tall buildings. I would think that this would mean completely whole different means to what are attached to the name "Leeds".

Yes it will.

I only said that because someone asked... Its not redifining the City Centre though; the inner ring road defines that (at least to the north, east and west), and the riverside to the south (at the moment). But the Prime Shopping Core is only within the public transport box, with a few exceptions- most notably with SJ/The Light/Merrion Shopping Centres. This will completely break the shopping core and shopping patterns out of this neat box.

Yes it will.

I only said that because someone asked... Its not redifining the City Centre though; the inner ring road defines that (at least to the north, east and west), and the riverside to the south (at the moment). But the Prime Shopping Core is only within the public transport box, with a few exceptions- most notably with SJ/The Light/Merrion Shopping Centres. This will completely break the shopping core and shopping patterns out of this neat box.

I know, i was just being equally pedantic. That is, if you mean semantically defining or physically defining (as in boundaries) the city.

I know, i was just being equally pedantic. That is, if you mean semantically defining or physically defining (as in boundaries) the city.

Oh dear !

Thanks

I have just read a good chunk of the threads, it seems a very exciting project. Is it fair to say it will redefine the city centre of Leeds?

Car parking is already a problem without getting rid of the 2 major car parks for this development. Could cause chaos???

Hello flatcap.

New scheme has 2,700 spaces (sorry, No. 1, not 1,700). But they're obviously going to have to close down the exiting stuff for the couple of years it's going to take to build the thing, so Leeds city centre will be down a load of parking for quite a while. How long depends on the quality of the project managers they have - lets hope the somewhat cavalier way they were digging up Vicar Lane and Bridge Street the other day isn't going to be representative of the process going forward! (BTW looks like it's British Telecom they're shifting).

Oh dear !

:lol:

[QUOTE=5th Elevation;15887574]Hello flatcap.

New scheme has 2,700 spaces (sorry, No. 1, not 1,700). But they're obviously going to have to close down the exiting stuff for the couple of years


5th Elevation - either your maths is bad or my calculator is broken.

2012 opening and a couple of years to build it = 2 and a half years of design?

I am glad I am not one of the architects!!!

Cant wait till this little beauty is restored.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6228/1000903gd0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It could be a real gem once the dust's been blown of it. Didn't Aviator say it was the first non-conformist chapel in the city centre. It looks suitably austere for a chapel.

Definitely agree it will be a gem but it certainly isnt the first non conformist chapel in the city centre.

It was built 1835 and was predated by South parade Chapel built 1824-1825,Queen Street Independent chapel 1823-1825, and to beat them all Call Lane Arian chapel built 1691 when it is believed that between a quarter and a third of the Leeds population at that time were dissenters and was a hotbed of nonconformism.

It looks like the Lady Lane chapel is the oldest surviving chapel building in the centre.

Any road i for one will be glad to see it brought back to life

Definitely agree it will be a gem but it certainly isnt the first non conformist chapel in the city centre.

It was built 1835 and was predated by South parade Chapel built 1824-1825,Queen Street Independent chapel 1823-1825, and to beat them all Call Lane Arian chapel built 1691 when it is believed that between a quarter and a third of the Leeds population at that time were dissenters and was a hotbed of nonconformism.

It looks like the Lady Lane chapel is the oldest surviving chapel building in the centre.

Any road i for one will be glad to see it brought back to life

I think it was preceded on the site by a Roman Catholic chapel.

I think it was preceded on the site by a Roman Catholic chapel.

Yeah looks right,Parish registers for St Marys Chapel Lady Lane come to a halt in 1834.

Also found registers for Queen Street 1755 South Parade from 1781,old Chapel St Peters(as in Quarry Hill)from 1785 onwards etc etc so clearly these were quite well established before 1835.

Anyway its a digression

I've heard that the shortlist has been agreed for the architectural competition stage of this scheme- names from all over the world. Anyone heard of Kengo Kuma & Bjark Ingles? Our own homegrowm Thomas Heatherwick is also there.

Ooooooh very excited,

Heard from a couple of sources that the Jerde Partnership might be getting involved (www.jerde.com). I am a very big fan of these guys, lots of curves and natural stone (again sorry don't have interweb ability to post images). Have a look at Roppongi Hills, Japan, Kanyon in Istanbul and Zloty Tarasy in Warsaw.

Ooooooh very excited

Same here.
This is the Zlote Zarasy project in Warsaw.



http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/Plany/zt06.jpg




http://www.worldcam.pl/images/satellite_photos/max/281.jpg

hang on!!!

I thought the renders and everything was all done with the templar centre having a multi coloured roof etc...why are there archtitects competing at this late stage????

I'm confused!

and yes the warsaw pics look AMAZING!

hang on!!!

I thought the renders and everything was all done with the templar centre having a multi coloured roof etc...why are there archtitects competing at this late stage????

I'm confused!

and yes the warsaw pics look AMAZING!


Farrells drew up the masterplan. The renders were only indicative. The actual design process will involve a team of architects from across the world.

Ha!
Thats kina creepy actually, I was just thinking about that underground shoppping district in Rotterdam the other day, thinking that it provided a surprisingly nice space to shop in given the poor surroundings (many busy roads etc).
Seems that jerde designed that looking at their website!

Any idea of when the list of winners is likely to be announced 5th elevation?

Also, are there any whispers about the second anchor and when it will be unveiled yet as I heard one or two murmurings but dont want to let any cats out of the bag!

Ha!
Thats kina creepy actually, I was just thinking about that underground shoppping district in Rotterdam the other day, thinking that it provided a surprisingly nice space to shop in given the poor surroundings (many busy roads etc).
Seems that jerde designed that looking at their website!

Any idea of when the list of winners is likely to be announced 5th elevation?

Also, are there any whispers about the second anchor and when it will be unveiled yet as I heard one or two murmurings but dont want to let any cats out of the bag!

I think winners will be announced in two stages because the Jerde rumour came a lot later than the rest. Expect the first lot of winners being announced in a couple of weeks.

Plenty of whispers about the second department store. There's a big industry conference 1st week of November, so if I had anything to do with it I'd look to make an announcemnt then. Would also tie in nicely with the architects thing. One thing's for sure - it's another behemoth - around 200,000 sq. ft.

And idle speculation isn't letting the cat out of the bag - who do you think it is?

I think winners will be announced in two stages because the Jerde rumour came a lot later than the rest. Expect the first lot of winners being announced in a couple of weeks.

Plenty of whispers about the second department store. There's a big industry conference 1st week of November, so if I had anything to do with it I'd look to make an announcemnt then. Would also tie in nicely with the architects thing. One thing's for sure - it's another behemoth - around 200,000 sq. ft.

And idle speculation isn't letting the cat out of the bag - who do you think it is?


Check your PMs.

Check your PMs.

Done

Spent a bit of time wandering around the area again today, pretty much agree with the buildings to be kept/cleared. It's incredible to note the difference in detail between the originallly planned North side of Eastagte and the opposite side built in the 50's , which is frankly ugly (and going).
Cant wait for this development to get started, it's probably my favourite in the city.

Glad this will be staying.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5690/1000908yy6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Spent a bit of time wandering around the area again today, pretty much agree with the buildings to be kept/cleared. It's incredible to note the difference in detail between the originallly planned North side of Eastagte and the opposite side built in the 50's , which is frankly ugly (and going).
Cant wait for this development to get started, it's probably my favourite in the city.

Glad this will be staying.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5690/1000908yy6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Shame about the fountains,they are a bit pissy,lets have something with a bit more ooomph

Shame about the fountains,they are a bit pissy,lets have something with a bit more ooomph

This building will sit in a new public square away from the road. I'd do something else entiely with it - restore it and turn it into a cafe or something, maybe a ticket office for the playhouse, the opera etc etc?

Plenty of whispers about the second department store.And idle speculation isn't letting the cat out of the bag - who do you think it is?

Galeries Lafayette? :lol: They have a second store in Berlin.
That would certainly trump Selfridges.

Galeries Lafayette? :lol: They have a second store in Berlin.
That would certainly trump Selfridges.

By second store, do you mean first outside france? I'd far rather have Selfridges, GL may be french but its not exactly the same quality and level or prestige as Selfridges, its more akin to House of Fraser, with stores in most french towns of any size... however Fnac which was suggested on the questionnaire about which shops would we like, would be a great addition, much better than HMV/virgin/borders

Yeh i love that building, its a quaint touch to that part of the city, glad its staying!!!

By second store, do you mean first outside france? I'd far rather have Selfridges, GL may be french but its not exactly the same quality and level or prestige as Selfridges, its more akin to House of Fraser, with stores in most french towns of any size... however Fnac which was suggested on the questionnaire about which shops would we like, would be a great addition, much better than HMV/virgin/borders

Don't want to get anyone confused, by second store I meant second department store within the project.

I also walked around the site during the week examining some of the buildings, and looking at detail at No 1 Eastgate. Stepping back and taking it in I have to say this is an awesome building, complimenting the other 2 corner buildings. The detailing of the columns/pilaters and the little urns at the top are excellent. From recollection this part was built first prior to the war then the bit next door was built in the 50s? Not sure. Obviously this little gem will be kept but wondering about the chap adjacent. Just needs some reconfiguration I assuming for larger retail below.

I hear the Inquiry is kicking off soon. Haven't heard too much in the press?

Farrells drew up the masterplan. The renders were only indicative. The actual design process will involve a team of architects from across the world.

:banana:International architects should provide some pretty exciting buildings, perhaps out of the norm for what we are used to in this country. Are there any precedents in Leeds of internationally designed buildings that anyone knows?

By second store, do you mean first outside france? I'd far rather have Selfridges, GL may be french but its not exactly the same quality and level or prestige as Selfridges, its more akin to House of Fraser, with stores in most french towns of any size... however Fnac which was suggested on the questionnaire about which shops would we like, would be a great addition, much better than HMV/virgin/borders

personally I would welcome a foreign department store over a Selfridges. I don't want Leeds to be identikit more than it already is. I went to New York and shopped along the main shopping bits and it was boring. Full of the shops that you would get here, few exceptions...the only store I would like from NYC is Bergdorf Goodmans, now that's actually better than Selfridges in my eyes.

I'm sick of hearing about how Selfridges would be so good, most of the ones that's outside London are rubbish and it would just make us look sad in comparison to Manchester which has TWO.

A foreign newcomer to the retail market may give us some identity and create a destination shopping buzz. Why go to Leeds when it has most every shops that the other major shopping centres do?

Why go to Leeds when it has most every shops that the other major shopping centres do?


Especially when, as yet, there are a number which it DOESN'T have and there is little else to attract visitors. That's probably why Leeds hotels are struggling more than others to fill their rooms.

Leeds needs to have USPs, not the same as every other city and so should be actively pursuing other notable foreign stores that have an eye on expanding. It should look at gaps in the market and to its own history.

Eastgate could do well to have a DIY store as the only places to go for that sort of thing is Wilkinsons and that’s not a dedicated DIY store.

It needs to expand the ethnic foods/organic market by trying to capitalise on its polish/afro-caribbean/Indian/Chinese/thai populations.

I would prefer Eastgate to have differing rents, the established big stores to pay more (with the exception of John Lewis) and the smaller ones to pay less rent so there is a mix of niche market/boutique-y stores with the big ones. Retail variety would add interest. Once I visited the Bullring, and I thought ‘I won’t be going back for the shops as there’s nothing unique about it even though it’s a lovely development’.

More risk taking instead of high rents would pay off in the long run. Remember Morley town centre used to be a very popular shopping destination and then the council put up the rents and now it’s a charity shop town.

It would be lovely if they could have regular musical performances to attract visitors, maybe some from Leeds college of Music?

Also the building design has to be top notch as the main reason I visited Birmingham is to see the Bullring Selfridges section...I'm sure many other people visit a shopping centre for similar reasons. Organic shapes are quite big at the moment and it would be nice to have something bonkers with curves and spiky spires to act as a counterpoint to Lumiere and CP.

The Selfridges building is impressive, but most of the Bullring is a bland, suffocating mall space. The best thing about it is the size of the retail units imo.

its frustrating when you go into a shopping centre and its so badly done that even I can see it needs improvements.

the Merrion centre interior is vile.

I understand the need to keep costs down as much as possible to get the maximum profit but surely its more cost effective to have a lovely shopping centre with big units, real plants and trees, unusual lighting and permanent sculptures to add interest. Maintenance costs would be higher but VQ doesn't seem to suffer from that with its top end stores!

The Arndale, Leeds Shopping Plaza and Trafford centre doesn't look nice to me, it feels overly sterilised and just like any other normal shopping centre. Even the pool in the Trafford food court area just looks laughably naff. The Light looks nice but not quite right.

Maybe it's just my bizarre thinking but i actually think the Merrion Centre is fantastic. In a world of soulless shopping centres, the Merrion Centre's retro awfulness (plastic plants and late '60s design) seems reasonably characterful.
Commonplace in its own time, things like this mural in the Merrion cinema seem unique and beatiful today.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/399204114_fc9d99ed91.jpg?v=0

Maybe it's just my bizarre thinking but i actually think the Merrion Centre is fantastic. In a world of soulless shopping centres, the Merrion Centre's retro awfulness (plastic plants and late '60s design) seems reasonably characterful.

I agree. It isn't THAT awful in the way that many people make out.

Maybe it's just my bizarre thinking but i actually think the Merrion Centre is fantastic. In a world of soulless shopping centres, the Merrion Centre's retro awfulness (plastic plants and late '60s design) seems reasonably characterful.
Commonplace in its own time, things like this mural in the Merrion cinema seem unique and beatiful today.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/399204114_fc9d99ed91.jpg?v=0

beauty in the eye of the beholder? :nuts:

I think they should get rid of the ceiling, incorporate more natural lighting/ceiling covers that aren't mould green, replace plants with real ones and do something about the god awful entrances if only to avoid compensation claims. Not a huge update. The structure isn't too bad internally but does need updating. It just reminds me of those avocado bathroom suites!!!

Without the plastic plants, why carry on?

That's not me in the photo but, by gad, i wish i was sixteen again.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2312/1562860822_49c4d0d309_b.jpg

Without the plastic plants, why carry on?

do you have them in your house?:)

do you have them in your house?:)

lol. I can't even afford my own furniture.
But I do like them in bad-taste shopping centres.

I don't like the Merrion generally. There are elements of it that need preserving, such as that mural, and the chandelier in the cinema. Retro aspects like that could provide a unique envrionment, but it needs to be "retro" not "dated". At the moment its dated; a modern shopping centre with a retro twist would work.

Without question, the one thing that needs changing is the entrances. In particular the main entrance; what is with the ridiculously steep gradients!? A few escalators would be welcome, or travelators. If the "drop" to street level was moved right back to where the arcade splits, it would allow for a courtyard like there is in The Light.

In particular the main entrance; what is with the ridiculously steep gradients!? A few escalators would be welcome, or travelators.

There used to be an escalator there when it first opened.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/oootle/Leeds130.jpg

This is what the Merrion used to look like, the entrance more set back with escalators!

Well they should have kept it like that! The Light gives a sense of space which the Merrion needs. The re-instated area would have a glass front and roof to allow lots of natural light in, and Edwards would be able to have seating in that area, again like the restaurants in The Light.

Excellent picture Tomd89. Is that one of yours or is it something you found and look at the two way Merrion Street as well as the row of shops where Edwards Bar / Oceana is now and was this taken prior to the roof being installed?

Regarding the escalator just why did they remove them and considering the steep way into the Merrion from Merrion Street could they perhaps if the need ever arose create an additional level underneath the existing stores of the Merrion perhaps or would this be unpossible considering the use of that basement space for delivery / stockrooms.

Just about grammar here: how many "ands" were there in that sentence! And unpossible is not a word :) "Impossible" would probably work better

Must you?

And if you are going to correct someone else's grammar, it is probably for the best if you don't use bad grammar yourself.

Yes

back on track!!!

what timescale do you think the new worked up renders will be made public? I'd be interested to see what the architects come up with and whether it will look bland as in the orginal renders or whether LCC will try and go for a big statement building as in Bullring!

Done

Sent you another message to mull over...

Sent you another message to mull over...

Interesting, but I think I have the answer. Check your PM.

Some rather sketchy designs for Sheffield's almost identical Hammerson development are included on the website below.

http://www.sevenstone.co.uk/home.php


http://www.sevenstone.co.uk/images/design/architects.jpg


Bit cheeky this one (checkout the railcard destination)m but also quite funny

http://www.sevenstone.co.uk/sheffield.php


Sheffield Star newspaper -

Magnificent Sevenstone

Tony Belshaw

THE first glimpses of what Sheffield's £500 million Sevenstone retail development could look like have emerged - and they look very radical indeed.
Developers Hammerson have posted the first sketchy images and descriptions of what Sheffield city centre could look like in 2012 when the huge new shopping area is finally complete.

And they include a John Lewis store twice the size of the present one, wrapped in “sculpted fins” around the entire building and another creating the effect of “coalescing soap bubbles”.

Hammerson has refused to release the images to The Star but they can be viewed on the firm’s website.

The website says the concept for the new John Lewis store is for “an external wrap of sculpted fins that goes around the building. These fins will vary in frequency and rhythm giving glimpses into the various activities behind.”

Block two, just off Barker’s Pool and across from the City Hall has been designed as “a visual beacon” which will draw people towards it from Fargate.

It is described as having “a metal fabric of changing appearance, sometimes a mysterious veil, at other points a shading device or an oversized shop window into the store within”. Lighting within the façade will give the appearance of movement and the building will seem to ‘glow’.

Elsewhere block three, bordered by Pinstone Street, Cross Burgess Street, New Burgess Street and Barker’s Pool, will include some present buildings along with new ones all “wrapped in a façade of bronzed metal.” It adds: “Along the streets there will be covered walkways creating a colonnade that will not only protect walkers from the elements, but create spaces for people to meet, eat and watch the world go by.”

Block five, at the southern end of Sevenstone, between Cambridge Street, Charter Square and New Burgess Street, is one of the largest blocks in the scheme.

Hammerson says it wants to avoid creating “a monolithic structure” and are instead aiming for “the feel of a cluster of smaller elements, much like coalescing soap bubbles.”

The Eastgate website is currently off-line. This might suggest an update soon.

Interesting, but I think I have the answer. Check your PM.

any hints?:)

The Eastgate website is currently off-line. This might suggest an update soon.

Nope, it's just changed from .co.uk to www.eastgateleeds.com

Oh well, should hear some stuff soon enough.

[img

[img

You tease.

Liverpool's Paradise Street. I can't wait for this level of activity in Leeds.


http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/3712/img4840eo2.jpg



http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/998/img4836nl9.jpg

any hints?:)

Don't get too excited. Think existing mass market UK department store, but also think North of England flagship store.

And I'm with DiLivio in that Hammerson got their Sevenstone railcard thing wrong - who travels from Leeds to Sheffield city centre to shop???!!!???.

Is it one of the following?

http://www.debenhams.com/images/nav/top/debs_logo.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/Fenwick_%28department_store%29_logo.png

http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aaba_prd/on/demandware.static/Sites-hof-Site/-/default/v1194394860998/img/logo_hof.gif

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/02/MandS/en_GB/core/nav/logo._V7237464_.gif

http://next.co.uk/i/next/core/mainsite_logo.gif

I presume it will probably be one of the above and is there any reason why this second anchor cannot be annouced yet and if so do you know when the announcement of the second anchor will take place and also any other announcment of retail tenants as well as anything else for Eastgate such as a possible cinema? My bet is that it will be House of Fraser to allow their existing out dated store alongside Market St Arcade to be finally rebuilt to something to revitalise the bottom end of Briggate.

Is it one of the following?

http://www.debenhams.com/images/nav/top/debs_logo.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/38/Fenwick_%28department_store%29_logo.png

http://demandware.edgesuite.net/aaba_prd/on/demandware.static/Sites-hof-Site/-/default/v1194394860998/img/logo_hof.gif

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/02/MandS/en_GB/core/nav/logo._V7237464_.gif

http://next.co.uk/i/next/core/mainsite_logo.gif

I presume it will probably be one of the above and is there any reason why this second anchor cannot be annouced yet and if so do you know when the announcement of the second anchor will take place and also any other announcment of retail tenants as well as anything else for Eastgate such as a possible cinema? My bet is that it will be House of Fraser to allow their existing out dated store alongside Market St Arcade to be finally rebuilt to something to revitalise the bottom end of Briggate.


You presume correctly, the information I have is that it will be one of the above. I think the reason that there has been no announcement is that they tend to wait until legal documentation has been signed. No idea when other tenants will be announced.

For architectophiles, I have it on good authority that Gross Max has ben appointed for public realm design. Ful anouncement expected in a week or so for other architects.

Nope, it's just changed from .co.uk to www.eastgateleeds.com

Oh well, should hear some stuff soon enough.

Hmm, seems you were partly correct Di Livio, the new site address has preceded a new look. Different background, mostly the same info however, maybe there is more to come. It looks a bit threadbare at the moment with most of the images missing.

The only new bit of info I believe , is as follows,

1,450,000 sq ft of retail, restaurant and leisure experience
A highly visible prime location
Stunning and sophisticated architecture alongside sensitively restored heritage landmarks
2 department stores and 10 flagship retail units
130 retail and restaurant units in total.
An unrivalled unique ‘City Village’ for cutting-edge desirable designer brands
Retailing at its very best – with industry leaders
A unique choice of sophisticated aspirational restaurants and cafés
Over 500 residential units
An art house cinema
Parking for 2,700 vehicles with unrivalled accessibility
continuous footfall – 24/7 for shoppers, office workers, residents, visitors, socialisers and locals
Adjacent to the thriving Victoria Arcade, home to Harvey Nicholls
Expressive of nature in the heart of the city together with a variety of cultural experiences
A symbol of community pride – sharing and furthering Leeds’ ambition as a regional capital and dynamic European City
Environmental improvements – giving Leeds its missing quarters back to create a new shopping and entertainment heart for the city.

You presume correctly, the information I have is that it will be one of the above. I think the reason that there has been no announcement is that they tend to wait until legal documentation has been signed. No idea when other tenants will be announced.

For architectophiles, I have it on good authority that Gross Max has ben appointed for public realm design. Ful anouncement expected in a week or so for other architects.

I had a look at some of Gross Max's work and i have to say im left fairly unimpressed, some of his work looks bland, in some cases bleak and other cases just plain vulgar. I hope he doesn't create a square that looks like his other work, he seems to make things look slightly depressing!

Using some of what we know:
Next has relatively new/large unit on Albion St
M&S named as anchor for Trinity (?)
Debenhams has gorgeous 6 storey building next to VQ - unlikely to move?
So.... I would guess one of Fenwicks or HofF. Hopefully not TJ Hughes lol

I would say its gotta be HoF. Debenhams have quite a large store, and it was only done up and expanded a few years ago. TJ Hughes- don't see that they could be an anchor tenant. Fenwick don't seem to expand much. Next- maybe.

Sorry, this might be a silly question:

Is the armouries actually open at the mo and if so where do you get in and park?

I'm thinking about taking some friends there that are coming up from Nottingham for the weekend and just thought I'd get the obvious questions out of the way. :)

Using some of what we know:
Next has relatively new/large unit on Albion St
M&S named as anchor for Trinity (?)
Debenhams has gorgeous 6 storey building next to VQ - unlikely to move?
So.... I would guess one of Fenwicks or HofF. Hopefully not TJ Hughes lol

Excellent skills of deduction, Watson. However, a couple of extra bits of information may make you change your mind;

- Next has a confirmed it wants a much larger store in the city (probably about double the size of its existing) and it would probably trade two stores

- M&S has been named as the Trinity anchor store by the developer, not M&S - it's not technically part of their scheme

- The Debenhams shop is ridiculously small for a decent city centre store - it's less than half the size of a modern unit which means they can't sell their full product line

Hope that helps!

Yes the Armouries is open all year round. The car park is also the car park for Clarence Dock (it's the new multi-storey they built a few years ago). You can get to it by turning left onto Chadwick Street and following the road round, or from South Accomodation Road. Of course what you could do is park in the city centre and walk through to the Armouries so they see more of the city :)

Is there a canal-barge service yet on a sat? Perhaps I could drive into town and go on that? If so where do you get that from?

Just realised this is totally the wrong thread sorry Peeps. :bash:

An art house cinema is great news for Leeds as we havent got many choices of cinemas hear in Leeds

Excellent skills of deduction, Watson. However, a couple of extra bits of information may make you change your mind;

- Next has a confirmed it wants a much larger store in the city (probably about double the size of its existing) and it would probably trade two stores

- M&S has been named as the Trinity anchor store by the developer, not M&S - it's not technically part of their scheme

- The Debenhams shop is ridiculously small for a decent city centre store - it's less than half the size of a modern unit which means they can't sell their full product line

Hope that helps!


I have a longshot tip. I have heard that Hammerson are looking in the European market - perhaps a new player to the UK? Galeries Lafayette perhaps???

I have a longshot tip. I have heard that Hammerson are looking in the European market - perhaps a new player to the UK? Galeries Lafayette perhaps???

If that where true i would go to town with my Video Cam and film the spot where it could be! LOL

Oh and I do hope out of them it is HOF as the they could knock down where they are now and get rid of "The Ally of Doom" aswell to build a very nice 14 Story Harrods in its place! :) :banana: You all know its to be true!!!!

shame Booths couldn't move in!!!

my tip would be Debenhams as it is incredibly tiny for a Debenhams and its on the up.

M&S has a reasonably big store as it is.

HOF seems to have a nice size but rubbish layout.

I thought Fenwicks was struggling??? Is that correct?

I would hate it to be Next as I feel it is dated and low quality.

All that in mind, I'd love a foreign department store to come in and add some interest to the bland high street shopping. None of above would differentiate Leeds as a major shopping destination.

my tip would be Debenhams as it is incredibly tiny for a Debenhams and its on the up.

Have you ever been in Debenhams Harrogate? It's about the size of Boots in the Leeds shopping plaza.

not been in that...I'm not keen on harrogate out of some irrational reason. beautiful buildings but just not appealing to me!

wouldn't mind a bettys in leeds though.

shame Booths couldn't move in!!!

my tip would be Debenhams as it is incredibly tiny for a Debenhams and its on the up.

M&S has a reasonably big store as it is.

HOF seems to have a nice size but rubbish layout.

I thought Fenwicks was struggling??? Is that correct?

I would hate it to be Next as I feel it is dated and low quality.

All that in mind, I'd love a foreign department store to come in and add some interest to the bland high street shopping. None of above would
differentiate Leeds as a major shopping destination.

I've also heard FNAC (French retailer - Like Borders but better) www.fnac.com may also be interest - they would take something quite big

Speculation is pointless, but i'll put my money on it being Debenhams. The Briggate store seems adequate until you go to ones at Meadowhell or the Bullring. They're vast.

I've never been to Betty's; if you live in Harrogate, you don't tend to do the touristy things. I like Harrogate; nice place, lots of green space. Rubbish shopping though. Well, it's alright, but in the shadow of Leeds, not so good.

How big is Debenhams at the WRC? I've been in it- can't remember how big it was though. I haven't been to the WRC for at least 2 years...

Abercrombie and Fitch would be a good snaffle for the development. Only one in the UK at present, but then should everyone start wearing the stuff I'll have to start my wardrobe all over and surrender exclusivity rights.

Can't really get my head around the size of the scheme. Its an absolute whopper and will transform a huge chunk of Leeds.

ooo yeah...that would be a good brand! Don't wear the stuff but wouldn't mind window shopping!

i hate to say it but ive read theyre looking to expand to birmingham, glasgow, manchester and (slightly strangely) edinburgh... but not leeds atm... so even if we do get A&F in Eastgate it wont be a major coup. Their london shop is amazing tho...

i hate to say it but ive read theyre looking to expand to birmingham, glasgow, manchester and (slightly strangely) edinburgh... but not leeds atm... so even if we do get A&F in Eastgate it wont be a major coup. Their london shop is amazing tho...

albeit slightly ropey male models welcoming you into the store - In actual fact the A&C store in London doesn't stock all of the offer that typical US stores have and they are testing the market. If you have a look at the London one you'll notice its just loads of t-shirts and jeans - an upmarket GAP then...??

Edinburgh is kindof a key city for them - ie demographics catchment etc..

Abercrombie and Fitch would be a good snaffle for the development. Only one in the UK at present, but then should everyone start wearing the stuff I'll have to start my wardrobe all over and surrender exclusivity rights.

Can't really get my head around the size of the scheme. Its an absolute whopper and will transform a huge chunk of Leeds.

1.1m sq ft of retail - and then the rest of the goodies on top!

albeit slightly ropey male models welcoming you into the store - In actual fact the A&C store in London doesn't stock all of the offer that typical US stores have and they are testing the market. If you have a look at the London one you'll notice its just loads of t-shirts and jeans - an upmarket GAP then...??

Edinburgh is kindof a key city for them - ie demographics catchment etc..

try and A&F at South Street Seaport or on 5th Avenue in NY. The lady assistants made me spend far too much money once I'd rolled up my tongue and safely stowed it back in my pocket.

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/index.php

So is Terry Farrall the now official chosen architect?

Terry Farrell was in from the beginning as the masterplanner, and various individual architects are to be employed for each building or block/element

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/index.php


Yeah, as I said a few pages ago, it's interesting, but feels a bit transistional. It actually has far less information on than the previous incarnation, presumably because it's going to be redone again when the architects and designs etc are finalised. Some of the pages dont make a huge amount of sense, especially the architects page, as it makes it look like Terry Farrell is the only architect. It also asks for architects to submit schemes using a form which doesnt actaully exist on the new site. Still......

The main gripe I have is the lack of the video. Come on, bring back the cheesy video!!

Yeah, as I said a few pages ago, it's interesting, but feels a bit transistional. It actually has far less information on than the previous incarnation, presumably because it's going to be redone again when the architects and designs etc are finalised. Some of the pages dont make a huge amount of sense, especially the architects page, as it makes it look like Terry Farrell is the only architect. It also asks for architects to submit schemes using a form which doesnt actaully exist on the new site. Still......

The main gripe I have is the lack of the video. Come on, bring back the cheesy video!!

If you think this site is bad, take a look at the Sheffield development site, www.sevenstone.co.uk- Eastgate looks miles better.

The main gripe I have is the lack of the video. Come on, bring back the cheesy video!!

I wanted to show the video in a presentation, so i'm gutted it's been taken off.

I wanted to show the video in a presentation, so i'm gutted it's been taken off.

Di Livio,

It was produced by a firm called Squint Opera - try asking them direct. Failing that I may have a copy in my vast pantheon of Leeds city centre development cr@p.

I still have a signed Trinity Leeds mini rugby ball that someone (ahemEvenFlowahem) asked me to pick up at BCSC, and which is now cluttering up my otherwise pristeen desk.

Di Livio,

It was produced by a firm called Squint Opera - try asking them direct.

Cheers. Will do.

The main gripe I have is the lack of the video. Come on, bring back the cheesy video!!

"It's in our DNA" To want it back! lol

"It's in our DNA" To want it back! lol

Haha, it seems like a distant memory now though....

Will Pm you in a bit 5th Elevation.

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/2007/week45/inter__6a38ed03-3dbc-4621-9825-886a078a4b93_295c9bce-191e-45fa-a28b-ac817b775f51.pdf

Not stunningly interesting, but contains news about the sequencing of the cpo enquiry, including all the objectors.
Suggests it should be concluded before Christmas, which is good.

Also confirms Benoy architects are involved with the scheme in some capacity as 5th Elevation suggested a few weeks back.

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/2007/week45/inter__6a38ed03-3dbc-4621-9825-886a078a4b93_295c9bce-191e-45fa-a28b-ac817b775f51.pdf

Not stunningly interesting, but contains news about the sequencing of the cpo enquiry, including all the objectors.
Suggests it should be concluded before Christmas, which is good.

Also confirms Benoy architects are involved with the scheme in some capacity as 5th Elevation suggested a few weeks back.

Quality find! Interesting objectors include:

- West Yorkshire Police Authority (why???!!!???)
- West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive (aka Metro), which seems strange as the project doesn't affect them.

- West Yorkshire Police Authority (why???!!!???)


Yeah, I thought that was rather strange as well.......

This will affect the architecture of our John Lewis's if they push it through for Leeds - cornerstone of the whole Eastgate scheme:

"John Lewis to drop one-off store designs

Retailer seeks architectural brand

Retail giant John Lewis is set to perform a U-turn in its approach to architecture by appointing a single practice to design two dozen new stores in the next decade.

John Lewis has become known for appointing a variety of top practices to design bespoke department stores including Foreign Office Architects and O’Donnell & Tuomey. But the firm’s head of retail development, Jeremy Collins, this week admitted the chain was considering appointing a single architect to design all the outlets proposed under its huge expansion scheme. “We’re talking to a whole bunch of UK and international architects,” he said. “What we’re are trying to achieve is a distinctive look for our buildings that becomes synonymous with our brand. The company’s director of retail design and development, Gareth Thomas, added: “In 10 years’ time customers looking at one of our buildings should know it is John Lewis without seeing our signage.” The proposals — which include set material choices such as glass, steel and Portland stone — were immediately questioned by firms working on the landmark Leicester store, now under construction.

Head of retail at property developer Hammerson, Jon Emery, said: “I can see that would be of benefit to the business; I have concerns from an urbanist view. One of the charges levelled against retail is that every town has the same shops. This won’t help counter that. Each city needs a specific approach. It would be a shame if the architectural profession was not allowed to interpret their requirements.”

Alejandro Zaera-Polo, partner at Foreign Office Architects, also criticised the idea of a single practice. “I don’t know whether you need that architectural brand for a corporation. It might be more interesting if you don’t brand the stores.”

John Lewis aims to add 24 new stores to its existing 26 over the next decade.

John Lewis projects list

Completed

Peter Jones refurb, Chelsea - John McAslan, 2004
Oxford Street refurb - Wilson Mason & Partners, 2007
Cambridge - Chapman Taylor, 2007

In development

Paradise Street, Liverpool - John McAslan, opens 2008
Leicester - Foreign Office Architects, 2008
St David’s II, Cardiff - Benoy 2009
New retail quarter, Sheffield - O’Donnell & Tuomey, 2011
Northern quarter, Portsmouth - Chapman Taylor, 2011

Proposed new locations

Stratford due to open 2011
Oxford 2011
Leeds 2012
Crawley 2013
Preston 2014
Sprucefield, Belfast no date

BD Online, 30 November 2007, By Marguerite Lazell "

I can see JL point (why not save a few quid in sort of 3rd choice locations) but guess noone will be happy to see identikit store in their city.

I can see JL point (why not save a few quid in sort of 3rd choice locations) but guess noone will be happy to see identikit store in their city.

Trouble is JL don't pay for their own stores, developers do. Developers also generally pick architects for their own schemes (they absolutely DON'T let tenants!), and I can't see 26 different developers (let alone 26 different local authorities) agreeing to an identikit JL "box" and architect. The guy from Hammersons got it right - it's about what's right for the city, not what some occupier wants. What happens when they move out in 20 years time? 26 disparate boxes with a once common tenant scattered forlornly around the UK - a smaller, sadder Arndale scenario - euuurgh!

You also have to think what John Thorpe would say!!!!!!!!!. :ohno:

It is a terrible idea - but IKEA do it. Mostly out of town centres, thankfully, but I bet that has been an influence on John Lewis' thinking here. You don't have to see the sign on the front to know that big blue box is an IKEA store.

Let's just hope that this idea doesn't get very far.

I think Leeds should just about escape the clutches of this move as we should be too far progressed. (Hopefully, as it sounds like a terrible idea.)

I think Leeds should just about escape the clutches of this move as we should be too far progressed. (Hopefully, as it sounds like a terrible idea.)

Dont panic everybody, I have it from a reliable JL source that this is not their plan, they have been quoted out of context and each city will have individuality and its own architects. They see their store at Eastgate as their most important (and biggest) store outside Oxford St London and have grand plans.

Sleep easy everybody :cheers:

Ah good. Well I hope you are right! And quite rightly so- Leeds is the biggest city JL are not in by far; and it is their flagship city centre store you would hope; all the other city centre stores are in smaller cities. So it makes sense that it is their most important store I think. Im suprised they have gone so long without a store in Leeds tbh.

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/2007/week45/inter__6a38ed03-3dbc-4621-9825-886a078a4b93_295c9bce-191e-45fa-a28b-ac817b775f51.pdf

Not stunningly interesting, but contains news about the sequencing of the cpo enquiry, including all the objectors.
Suggests it should be concluded before Christmas, which is good.

Also confirms Benoy architects are involved with the scheme in some capacity as 5th Elevation suggested a few weeks back.

.................and for anyone who wants a bit more meat on this bone, a spot of light reading if you will......

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007/2007/week40/inter__6a38ed03-3dbc-4621-9825-886a078a4b93_6f14df23-9263-4dce-83fd-b90ec105ab4f.pdf

Warning! Loading this 125 page PDF may cause poor PC's such as mine to crash.......:nuts:

Dont panic everybody, I have it from a reliable JL source that this is not their plan, they have been quoted out of context and each city will have individuality and its own architects. They see their store at Eastgate as their most important (and biggest) store outside Oxford St London and have grand plans.

Sleep easy everybody :cheers:

Hmmmmmm. Doesn't seem out of context to me:

"But the firm’s head of retail development, Jeremy Collins, this week admitted the chain was considering appointing a single architect to design all the outlets proposed under its huge expansion scheme. “We’re talking to a whole bunch of UK and international architects,” he said. “What we’re are trying to achieve is a distinctive look for our buildings that becomes synonymous with our brand. The company’s director of retail design and development, Gareth Thomas, added: “In 10 years’ time customers looking at one of our buildings should know it is John Lewis without seeing our signage.”

I've heard of these guys, they're pretty high up the John Lewis food chain, and from what I understand what they say, goes. Your "reliable source" would have to be even higher up for me to believe you!

I will therefore maintain a fretful, sleepless state and look forward to an John Lewis identibox until confirmed otherwise.

And then there's the obvious question how comes you know so much? Are you somehow connected with the eponymous Partnership??????????

Why does it matter that someone can recognise a building as John Lewis though? Signs do the same job of telling people its JL store. But anyway; each design is gonna have to be tailored to meet the demands of the site/size etc. Eastgate's Store architecture isn't so important anyway; it's main entrance is from the Templar Arcade and backs onto the A61/Inner Ring Road. Of course, the other buildings are important architecturally.

"But the firm’s head of retail development, Jeremy Collins, this week admitted the chain was considering appointing a single architect to design all the outlets proposed under its huge expansion scheme. “We’re talking to a whole bunch of UK and international architects,” he said. “What we’re are trying to achieve is a distinctive look for our buildings that becomes synonymous with our brand. The company’s director of retail design and development, Gareth Thomas, added: “In 10 years’ time customers looking at one of our buildings should know it is John Lewis without seeing our signage.”


The context could equally be that they want people to know it's John Lewis without seeing the signage because the architecture is so unique and distinctive that it couldn't be anybody else. The only department store in town with experimental and radical architecture? - Must be John Lewis. It says they're talking to 'a whole bunch' of architects about making their buildings look 'distinctive'. That really could be interpreted either way.

And then there's the obvious question how comes you know so much? Are you somehow connected with the eponymous Partnership??????????[/QUOTE]

5th elevation,

As you seem to know too well, if you keep your ear to the ground in the property world it is amazing what you can learn. Sources at JL but not from the Partnership I am afraid.

And yes, sources are high enough to be confident that you will read this in a few months and not be dissappointed.

They have big plans but definately not Maccy D or IKEA type rollout !!! :lol:

I'm 100% confident we'll get a wow piece of architecture for the new Leeds store. However, getting a new John Lewis, a company with stores in every second rate town in the country, is not quite in the same league as getting a Selfridges. Will people outside Leeds be impressed?


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/318661731_c5c4cef531.jpg?v=0

They have big plans but definately not Maccy D or IKEA type rollout !!! :lol:

As long as it's not some poncey twee delicate flavour-of-the-month japanese type architect, I'll be happy. I can't stand chocolate box architecture.

I think you need someone capable of reflecting the corporate socialist ideals of John Lewis - good, solid, austere and value for money, a kind of "never knowingly undersold" for buildings.

As long as it's not some poncey twee delicate flavour-of-the-month japanese type architect, I'll be happy. I can't stand chocolate box architecture.


Hmm, a small hint there?
Didnt you allude to the JL building being designed by a Japanese architect a few months back....:)

Hmm, a small hint there?
Didnt you allude to the JL building being designed by a Japanese architect a few months back....:)

Looks like Mr. Flatcap knows more than I..............:sly:

News is pretty thin on the ground in general from this project. The website doesnt even bother having a news page anymore.
Everyone I speak to about it just says "The only thing I know is that is starts in 2009." Thats about it.
Someone somewhere knows what's going down though.........

News is pretty thin on the ground in general from this project. The website doesnt even bother having a news page anymore.
Everyone I speak to about it just says "The only thing I know is that is starts in 2009." Thats about it.
Someone somewhere knows what's going down though.........

I've not heard anything to suggest the project is slowing down. It does look like they're late announcimg their other department store operator and their architectural teams, but I've heard that both are underway (and flatcap seems to confirm that as well).

As you notice, CPO Inquiry is also sitting at the moment, so stuff is happening.

Not sure if anyone has posted this already, but have a look at the Sheffield Sevenstone SSC thread or the official Sevenstone website (www.sevenstone.co.uk) to see the types of architects Hammersons seems to be going for these days. Not sure I like the Aedas stuff......

I'm 100% confident we'll get a wow piece of architecture for the new Leeds store. However, getting a new John Lewis, a company with stores in every second rate town in the country, is not quite in the same league as getting a Selfridges. Will people outside Leeds be impressed?


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/318661731_c5c4cef531.jpg?v=0

Did you read the slating the Brum Selfridges received in Architectural Review ?

However, getting a new John Lewis, a company with stores in every second rate town in the country, is not quite in the same league as getting a Selfridges. Will people outside Leeds be impressed?

Considering the catchment area is Leeds, as well as Bradford, Huddersfield, Wakefield, York and surrounding areas, so as it's still the only John Lewis in the catchment area, why shouldn't the people be impressed?

This is true; their second store in the whole region. And Manchester/Birmingham have no John Lewis (you have to go to Trafford/Cheadle and Solihull respectively). To the north, the next store isn't til you reach Newcastle. The store will be a major gain for Leeds, and something people will travel for.

What's going on in this fickle world? For years everyone has been bemoaning the lack of large footplate units available to department stores in Leeds; the failure to secure JL, Selfridges and every other store has been perceived as a scourge on this city since Harvey Nicks bothered to join us. Received wisdom is that any large retail development is a dead duck without the securing of a major store like this, but suddenly, departments stores are no longer flavour of the month if you believe some posters.

Department stores aren't everyones sup of tea (certainly not mine), but they are a huge draw for any retail centre. Obviously, securing John Lewis is a coup for Leeds. Having Selfridges would be too, but not every city can have every store. This development will draw people from far and wide and will be a massive boost for Leeds. Christ, people travel from all over to go to Meadowhall and that's a shocking place to visit! City centre developments have a character that out-of-town centres completely lack, so Eastgate as part of the broader Leeds experience will push Leeds right up the destination league.

^^:applause:

I love department stores but agree whole heartedly with the comment

I love them too. They tend to be a statement of how good a city's shopping is too. What would London shopping be without it's department stores?

Did you read the slating the Brum Selfridges received in Architectural Review ?

No, but i don't rate it very highly myself. Most of the facade fronts surrounding streets which aren't really part of the Bullring, it has no relationship to these streets and you can spend hours in the Bullring without getting a glimpse of it. However the inside of the building is A1 funky.


My indifference to John Lewis springs from living in Sheffield for three years, where they a store on Barker's Pool. Granted it was a decent department store, but it felt very much stuck in the past, and not unlike the old Lewis's/Allders on the Headrow. JL isn't a bad addition to the city centre, but as a store it doesn't have much pizazz. And they're going to demolish the Labour Exchange to build it.

The biggest shopping development planned in Leeds for decades could have its own male shopping zone... if students in the city get their way.

Students from Leeds Business School, part of Leeds Metropolitan University, have undertaken research into how the male and female shopping experience differs as part of a series of projects sponsored by developer Hammerson plc.

The team of 60 students, who are currently studying MSc Marketing, MA International Business and BA Business Studies courses, have completed a number of projects that will be used to help shape Leeds's new £675m retail-led Eastgate Quarters development, a joint venture between Hammerson and Leeds-based Town Centre Securities, known as The Leeds Partnership.

Their latest research explores how gender affects the shopping experience more than any other variable such as age, race or socio-economic group.

The findings show that many of today's shopping centres place too much emphasis on female shopping needs despite the rise in solo shopping for both men and women as a result of societal changes.

One conclusion drawn from these findings is that developers of new shopping areas should consider the inclusion of male shopping zones.

Some of the other key results have revealed that while men tend to be single-minded and focus on purchasing specific items, women use shopping as a social and therapeutic activity.

In addition, men are more likely to enjoy trips to grocery stores but not malls, with the reverse being true for women.

Rob Hancox, assistant development director at Hammerson, said: "The findings from the students' research have proved very interesting and will now be considered as we move forward with Eastgate Quarters.

"It was obvious that everyone involved with this research worked extremely hard and the students should be proud of the results they have achieved.

"Many of these students have the potential to establish successful careers in retail.

"They could soon be helping us shape the future of the sector as we create one of the largest schemes of its kind in the UK, a scheme that will place Leeds firmly on the European retail stage.

John Temperley, senior lecturer at Leeds Business School said the key feature of the research was that it allowed students to combine academic and employability skills, meaning they were able to apply theoretical knowledge to an exciting new development.

Eastgate Quarters will be anchored by a 24,150 sq m John Lewis store and will include over 100 shops, office accommodation, restaurants and bars. Construction is due to begin in 2009, with completion in 2012.

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Male-Leeds-shoppers-need-39zones39.3595130.jp

Also, the CPO enquiry has been extended and adjourned until January.

re: the bookends being moved further up eastgate. I didn't know this but apparently the 'medieval' buildings in Manchester's Exchange Square were moved from elsewhere, and are in fact mock-ups of older buildings. Weird.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.mcdonagh1/images/old%20shambles.jpg


Of course, Leeds had its own pastiche Chester rows at one time.

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/44/9344.jpg

Another self-indulgent post.


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/106/315766883_b25728aa8f_b.jpg

Of course, Leeds had its own pastiche Chester rows at one time.

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/44/9344.jpg

Where was this located?

A male zone sounds good in a way! Just because it is clear there is more female retail provision than male. But then again, Id rather just see more male shops generally, or better male departments in shops.

Where was this located?

New Briggate.

I know these days that pastiche is supposed to be the spawn of the devil in architectural circles, but I quite like some of it, provided it is well-executed and of good quality.

So why did they pull those down - were they falling to bits, or had they just gone out of fashion?

I know these days that pastiche is supposed to be the spawn of the devil in architectural circles, but I quite like some of it, provided it is well-executed and of good quality.

So why did they pull those down - were they falling to bits, or had they just gone out of fashion?

It was for construction of the Inner Ring Road. Big shame as they did look rather nice and has a look resembling Libertys in London. Wonder why they couldn't have rerouted the Inner Ring Road round it as the top end of town would have looked so much better.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Liberty_%28store%29_London_UK.jpg

As for the old buildings in Manchester Di Livio they were rebuilt following the 1996 IRA bomb which was right near the originals and wrecked them.

Why don't we rebuild our tudor buildings then :) They would look good on the north of the Inner Ring Road. Around the City of Mabgate pub we could develop the City of Mabgate which would have a traditional feel to it!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/106/315766883_b25728aa8f_b.jpg[/QUOTE]

I have been thinking the light pole next to the pump station would be a great location for a huge city centre wind turbine. It always seems to be blowing a gale and what a great way of signifying the seriousness of sustainablity for a city than a beacon wind turbine that you can see from miles away.

Thoughts? :banana:

DOUBLE POST

Heres another picture of this old building from New Briggate with the Grand Arcade and what is now Gatecrasher on the right:

http://www.leodis.org/imagesLeodis/screen/19/20021017_69067019.jpg

What was it Di Livio? Was it a factory as the Universal Furnishing Company sign suggests? Shame to see all of it is just now an interchange as it would have made such a good place if it was done up. Would certainly be good to rebuild perhaps smaller scale of course when Eastgate is built. This shows whats there now looking to this site from the west.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/192/475905015_7ef24a76ff.jpg?v=0

Such a shame to see that area pretty much ruined. Would have been a great area; worth rebuilding.

Yes, a wind turbine would be good there! Although if a skycraper is going to go there, might get in the way a bit. Maybe above the bus station/markets area- massive low-rise open space essentially. What happened with that wind turbine that was going up in Leeds not too long ago? It was meant to be really tall- is it up? If it is, I haven't seen it.

the wind turbine isnt up yet from what I know they've only just started on the building in the last few months so the turbine will go up afterwoods

Heres another picture of this old building from New Briggate with the Grand Arcade and what is now Gatecrasher on the right:

http://www.leodis.org/imagesLeodis/screen/19/20021017_69067019.jpg

What was it Di Livio? Was it a factory as the Universal Furnishing Company sign suggests? Shame to see all of it is just now an interchange as it would have made such a good place if it was done up. Would certainly be good to rebuild perhaps smaller scale of course when Eastgate is built. This shows whats there now looking to this site from the west.



It was a parade of shops, one of which was upmarket men's outfitters Brills which eventually relocated to Roundhay. I agree that it was quite attractive. Far worse buildings have been retained !

Have any tenants been announced yet, officially?
Is there a chance that this will contain more prestige shops like Victoria Quarter, or will it be a mainstream shopping centre?

Have any tenants been announced yet, officially?
Is there a chance that this will contain more prestige shops like Victoria Quarter, or will it be a mainstream shopping centre?

The Harewood Courts side of the development (next to the markets) will be for prestige shopping (essentially an extension of the VQ). The Templar Arcade will be more for high street brands (and will include a John Lewis). Lady Lane (below) will include pretentious dining and drinking.



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/160/423133755_c6188c1142_b.jpg

Lady Lane (below) will include pretentious dining and drinking.

Haha, well phrased, pretensious dining and drinking! john Lewis is the only definite or highly probable anchor tenant announced so far?? :)

JLP are the principal anchor so far, however i've heard there is going to be an announcement soon on the next anchor. I'd guess that all of the department store retailers will be fighting over each other to get into the scheme with JLP sitting at the other end.

think tesco will be there too to service city centre living

think tesco will be there too to service city centre living

In fact bearing in mind the anchor store will be John Lewis there will in fact be a John Lewis Foodhall from Waitrose opening at the Eastgate Quarters and not Tesco unless they somehow squeeze into this development although could John Lewis object to a rival supermarket opening in the same development perhaps?

Anyway Tesco are supposed to be opening Express stores at Clarence Dock and I believe if they get past planning which had been previously blocked due to the planned store being too large for the area its in to open up at Bridgewater Place.

Maybe Tesco could open up on Roseville Road. ;)

hope not roseville road turning into an upmarket area ..maybe waiterose should move there instead.:)

Eastgate will not have Waitrose; it will have a John Lewis Foodhall as part of its department store. Waitrose are opening in... Meanwood? I think.

Marks & Spencer will be the 2nd department store. Looks like it will be their biggest store outside London.

Not sure what's happening with Briggate.

Marks and Sparks is supposed to be one of the anchors of Trinity Leeds. Maybe with Eastgate not opening until 2012 at the earliest, M and S may operate 2 city centre stores. Where was this news announced?

Maybe with Eastgate not opening until 2012 at the earliest, M and S may operate 2 city centre stores. Where was this news announced?

They are not likely to operate two such big stores, more likely to be a relocation. The Trinity people should be worried as they mentined Marks & Spencer quite a lot, possibly to draw in other Tenants even though it s not actually part of the redevelopment plans.

an official announcement will be made shortly I take it?

Just seen this and will add my coments below:
re: the bookends being moved further up eastgate. I didn't know this but apparently the 'medieval' buildings in Manchester's Exchange Square were moved from elsewhere, and are in fact mock-ups of older buildings. Weird.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.mcdonagh1/images/old%20shambles.jpg


The section on the left is an original medieval building but it was moved following damage by the bombing, the stone section is new and the rhs may be reproduction / fake. The medieval section had extensive restoration work carried out to it, and if you look closely when stood next to it you can see the new bit but is very well done IMO.
The new stone sections quirky round the back with a sticking out section to copy the timber but in stone.

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/Daveb_design/Other%20cities/DSCF0066.jpg

and in detail
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/Daveb_design/Other%20cities/DSCF0067.jpg

Going slightly of-topic........ An apology if this has been discussed before.

But would it be plausible to create a new ‘China Town’ in Leeds? Hangzhou, Leeds twin city have gifted a ceremonial gate, could we place this gate in Eastgate?. Would it mix with contemporary architecture the developers are looking for.

http://cantonese.options.biz.tm/cantoneseimages/chinatown/london_chinatown_3.jpg
London ChinaTown gate

Marks & Spencer will be the 2nd department store. Looks like it will be their biggest store outside London.

Not sure what's happening with Briggate.

Well if true and if they move out of their Briggate store it would surely be a big loss for Briggate to lose such a major store from it and in my opinion it would have been better had House of Fraser or Debenhams moved to Eastgate as opposed to M&S especially as the number of shoppers on Briggate would go down id have thought with the loss of M&S. Still at least it gives the original home of M&S such a large store and would we see the return of that mural showing the original Penny Bazaar which used to be seen at the Briggate M&S near to the rear Trinity Arcade entrance but had disappeard without reason several years ago.

Saying this store will be the largest outside of London though would it incorporate a home store inside and is there any indication where abouts on the Eastgate Quarter site it will be? Is it going to be located as shown below as I believe Selfridges the originally planned 2nd department store were going to be located prior to cancelling their expansion when they got taken over?

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/406/eastgateanchorsplanvl2.jpg

As for their present store building do M&S own it themselves or is it leased out or is it even owned by the owners of the Trinity Quarter. Surely such an already decent department store unit must sold to House of Fraser / Debenhams to allow the HoF at Market Street arcade to be finally redeveloped and to keep large quality department stores on Briggate.

Even though I support the Eastgate development it must surely in my view not be at the expense of existing shopping areas such as Briggate.

Going slightly of-topic........ An apology if this has been discussed before.

But would it be plausible to create a new ‘China Town’ in Leeds? Hangzhou, Leeds twin city have gifted a ceremonial gate, could we place this gate in Eastgate?. Would it mix with contemporary architecture the developers are looking for.

The preferred site for the gate is at what will become Blomfield Square; at the end of Eastgate/bottom of Quarry Hill. It will mark the entrance to the Quarry Hill development, and the continuing Headrow axis, if placed here. As a result, chinese shops could be encouraged to open in the Quarry Hill area, thus creating a new China Town.

As for the second department store, I thought the second anchor was on Ebenezer Street. Maybe not...

I don't agree that losing M&S from Briggate is "bad". Briggate is currently the main shopping street in Leeds, but it shouldn't be. Leeds has outgrown Briggate; it would make a good secondary street for Leeds but The Headrow should be Leeds' main street now. If Eastgate gets a large M&S that is good. Get a good proportion of Briggate's chains into Eastgate, then encourage Briggate to get more independent/smaller scale chains/designer shops I say. Shops like Schuh, Fatface, Office (ie what we see at the top of Briggate) are the type of shops we should encourage along the length of Briggate. A free department store unit would allow another department store to move in; probably not Selfridges. TJ Hughes? (Hope not but who knows). Fenwick or Hoopers could work well.

They are not likely to operate two such big stores, more likely to be a relocation. The Trinity people should be worried as they mentined Marks & Spencer quite a lot, possibly to draw in other Tenants even though it s not actually part of the redevelopment plans.

an official announcement will be made shortly I take it?

1st or 2nd week in January - I don't think that they want the announcement to be lost in the xmas closedown.

Marks & Spencer will be the 2nd department store. Looks like it will be their biggest store outside London.

Not sure what's happening with Briggate.

I almost feel a sense of relief that you are now certain enough to share the news with everyone, it seemed to have been 'almost' nailed on for a while now, but never quite definite!

For my part, I'm still as close to 100% as I can be that M and S are keeping the Briggate store as well, even if it looks slightly different by the time Trinity opens................;)

Money for nothing???? (hums :nuts:)

cant wait for all this to begin, bye bye to the old west yorkshire bus station on vicar lane though!!

If a construction start is anticipated 2009, when can we expect possible commencement on site preparation and appropriate demolition?

I think I will chain myself to the Lyons building when the bulldozers are about to move in. Such a shame the city is not making use of such a cool building.

I agree Joey.

I love that building and it's a massive shame that it's going. I don't see why it can't be built around. It really annoys me.

Agreed their decision to demolish the Lyons Building when they could so easily build around it is negative especially as their is no reason why this building should be lost. It certainly does have a funky roof top and you would have thought it would be retained to leave more characturful architecture within this development as well as that old chapel which thankfully is being kept.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Chinatown_Leeds.JPG/800px-Chinatown_Leeds.JPG

Certainly they should have followed the advice of the Leeds Civic Trust to retain high quality buildings especially as there is the room to build around and the long term benefits to the centre had such buildings been preserved would be much greater than had they being demolished although of course The Headrow itself won't be demolished except for a small portion to move the bookends up Eastgate.

http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-assesskey.jpghttp://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-assess.jpg

Word on the retail vine is that M+S will keep only a Simply Food on Brigate. Eastgate will be their Nothern Flagship Store. Full M+S product plus restaurant and food hall. Sounds exciting, shame its going to take so long to open.

Gotta be a blow to the developers of Trinity.

If this is true, Simply Food is not going to take the whole department store, is it? So what will this space be used for? There is certainly demand for a larger Topshop I think. A flagship Topshop for Leeds in the TQ would do well.

http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-assesskey.jpghttp://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-assess.jpg

The plan shows the building to be post 1945. That is not true; it was built earlier as a tailoring factory for S.H.Lyons ( trade name Alexandre). As per the plaque that is on the building on its Lady Lane frontage:-

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d122/mpfreed/CIMG2351.jpg

Here is a picture taken even earlier in that location from a book about the family and business:-

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d122/mpfreed/image-2-1.jpg

For my part, I'm still as close to 100% as I can be that M and S are keeping the Briggate store as well, even if it looks slightly different by the time Trinity opens................;)

Money for nothing???? (hums :nuts:)

Ahhhhhh! Just figured it out. Stuart Rose is a non executive director of (drumroll......) Land Securities. Can't see the Cheif Exec of M&S agreeing to close down a store that anchors a scheme being promoted by another company on whose board he sits.

Agreed their decision to demolish the Lyons Building when they could so easily build around it is negative especially as their is no reason why this building should be lost. It certainly does have a funky roof top and you would have thought it would be retained to leave more characturful architecture within this development as well as that old chapel which thankfully is being kept.
[/IMG]

I'm going to be a bir contoversial on this one. I think this is a "nice" building, but it is a 20th century pastiche of a 19th century design. Provided they replace it with something better and a bit more honest, I'd be happy, especially if they actually deliver on the architectural quality that they say they will.........

Ahhhhhh! Just figured it out. Stuart Rose is a non executive director of (drumroll......) Land Securities. Can't see the Cheif Exec of M&S agreeing to close down a store that anchors a scheme being promoted by another company on whose board he sits.

I couldnt imagine M and S contemplating the idea of abandoning Briggate entirely really. Thats why I couldnt quite digest the Eastgate news when I first heard it a while back.

Ahhhhhh! Just figured it out. Stuart Rose is a non executive director of (drumroll......) Land Securities. Can't see the Cheif Exec of M&S agreeing to close down a store that anchors a scheme being promoted by another company on whose board he sits.

indeed - two M&S's is not beyond the realms of possibility, and Eastgate gives them a blank canvass to develop, instead of being constrained by the layout and structure of their current old location. They'd be loath to give up a prime Briggate site, but the opportunity as co-anchor (sounds like Ron Burgondy) with John Lewis is quite a lure I'll wager.

Rose's position on the Land Secs board is up for change, they are splitting three ways (London/commercial property, retail, and Trillium), so will be interesting to see if he maintains a position - surely will on the retail arm which covers all the retial parks and shopping centres etc.

What concerns me - and perhaps someone can explain it in simple terms that I can understand - is what transport arrangements are planned for the development? Where will the bus routes and the siting of stops be for example, and what will car park provision be like at that end of town ? It will be quite a way to walk for a fully laden shopper from, say, Trinity to where John Lewis is to be sited - it is to be hoped that a (preferably free) bus service can be provided to cater for same !

If the freecitybus was developed to run bi-directionally, this would solve the problem.

It will be interesting to see what will replace the Lyons factory but I think we are loosing a bit of an eccentric gem. The parkinson building looks pretty "ancient Greece" to me, I don't think this is any reason to like it any less.

What concerns me - and perhaps someone can explain it in simple terms that I can understand - is what transport arrangements are planned for the development? Where will the bus routes and the siting of stops be for example, and what will car park provision be like at that end of town ? It will be quite a way to walk for a fully laden shopper from, say, Trinity to where John Lewis is to be sited - it is to be hoped that a (preferably free) bus service can be provided to cater for same !

All in the planning application in a huge amount of detail. In essence new major bus facilities on Vicar Lane, Eastgate retained for BRT, NGT (or whatever they're calling it this week) and the free city bus, new bus stop facilities on George Street, loads of work on the Headrow stretch up to Briggate.

I seriously doubt you'd get a developer to pay for a free bus service to take people from their car park to a competitor's scheme, though.......

It will be interesting to see what will replace the Lyons factory but I think we are loosing a bit of an eccentric gem. The parkinson building looks pretty "ancient Greece" to me, I don't think this is any reason to like it any less.

It's a bit mean to suggest that the Lyons building is being demolished without any consideration. The developers actually explored several different options of retaining the Lyons building in whole or in part, and showed the ideas they had worked through as part of the planning application. But none of the options really worked, apart from demolition. It comes down to the positioning of the Galleria, really; for the Galleria to work properly, the Lyons building had to go. The argument is that the Galleria is going to be such a superb addition to Leeds' architecture, that the loss of Lyons is justifiable (especially as there are varying views on the quality/significance of Lyons). Hopefully that will be the case, as it is a shame to lose Lyons; but it needn't be the end of the world, and if the new architecture is truly world class then I'll be satisfied.

I don’t know what all the fuss is about re the Lyons building. It is just a 1930’s factory with no special architectural merit. True it has a history, as I have shown, but plenty of other buildings with history have been/will be demolished in the cause of progress and, hopefully, improvement.

What was the building knocked down for the plaza called? I expect in future we will similarly miss the lyons factory; its such a cool building. I must go down and take pictures to highlight what i mean

Article from todays YEP saying that the Eastgate Quarter could harm existing shops according to the Leeds Civic Trust.

Apparently they claim that the development will harm stores closer to the station and the delays to the Trinity Leeds project is because of what they claim is nervousness of the developers of that centre against the Eastgate Quarters despite the clear knowledge on here that Trinity Leeds will start this month and they say the Merrion Centre, Lewis's and The Core refurbishments will be at advantage due to their location close to the Eastgate Quarter (even though id thought the distance to the Merrion is just as great as that to Trinity). :bash:

Surely Eastgate will be a hell of a lot better than having a shabby surface level car park what is there at present and will take Leeds's shopping up a gear which hasn't really had much development other than than the enlargement of existing shop units (re: M&S, Debenhams, Next) in the past 15 years. Anyway surely id thought Trinity has an advantage with its location adjacent to the existing business quarter as well as main railway station.

They also mention quite rightly though that the city centre does need more stuff like schools, health centres and parks but surely I can be criticial of them when they say "where is the high quality architecture, the spaces of character, the public art and the community". Surely whilst there could be more of it I cannot see Leeds being favoured negatively against other major cities. Finally they mention that they question the quality of the Opal Tower and Plaza tower and they claim they are not of high enough quality even prior to both buildings having been completed id have reserved judgement prior to their completions.

I wouldn't worry about the civic trusts defense against eastgate and trinity, the council will ignore them like what they are doing more and more. The council has brains and knows there is no sense in considering going against eastgate!

Article from todays YEP saying that the Eastgate Quarter could harm existing shops according to the Leeds Civic Trust.

Apparently they claim that the development will harm stores closer to the station and the delays to the Trinity Leeds project is because of what they claim is nervousness of the developers of that centre against the Eastgate Quarters despite the clear knowledge on here that Trinity Leeds will start this month and they say the Merrion Centre, Lewis's and The Core refurbishments will be at advantage due to their location close to the Eastgate Quarter (even though id thought the distance to the Merrion is just as great as that to Trinity). :bash:

Surely Eastgate will be a hell of a lot better than having a shabby surface level car park what is there at present and will take Leeds's shopping up a gear which hasn't really had much development other than than the enlargement of existing shop units (re: M&S, Debenhams, Next) in the past 15 years. Anyway surely id thought Trinity has an advantage with its location adjacent to the existing business quarter as well as main railway station.

They also mention quite rightly though that the city centre does need more stuff like schools, health centres and parks but surely I can be criticial of them when they say "where is the high quality architecture, the spaces of character, the public art and the community". Surely whilst there could be more of it I cannot see Leeds being favoured negatively against other major cities. Finally they mention that they question the quality of the Opal Tower and Plaza tower and they claim they are not of high enough quality even prior to both buildings having been completed id have reserved judgement prior to their completions.


I'm not sure that the YEP report is new news, if you get my meaning. The Civic Trust has long questioned whether the city centre could absorb the massive increase in retail space that Eastgate will bring. Much as I respect the YEP, I suspect that Hammerson's and the City Council have a better feel for the pent-up demand there is for retail space in this city. Many figures have been quoted for the numbers of retailers seeking to establish a presence in Leeds, or the ones (like Next) wanting to expand their operation here. The Eastgate website contains (or used to) a long, detailed report on the state of this demand and listed by name many of the companies seeking space in Leeds.

Nor do I believe that Hammerson's are going for a devil-take-the-hindmost attitude to the way that their development sits with the rest of the city centre retail offer. They know that, however attractive Eastgate and Harewood are, if the rest of the city centre becomes blighted in the way that Sheffield was for many years after Meadowhall opened, it will have a negative impact on Eastgate's operation.

Article from todays YEP saying that the Eastgate Quarter could harm existing shops according to the Leeds Civic Trust.

I must admit I've got very little time for the Civic Trust, ever since one of them at a prsentation I attended described himself as an "amateur" Town Planner. Why no leave it to the professionals, I thought. :ohno:

Article from todays YEP saying that the Eastgate Quarter could harm existing shops according to the Leeds Civic Trust.

Apparently they claim that the development will harm stores closer to the station and the delays to the Trinity Leeds project is because of what they claim is nervousness of the developers of that centre against the Eastgate Quarters despite the clear knowledge on here that Trinity Leeds will start this month and they say the Merrion Centre, Lewis's and The Core refurbishments will be at advantage due to their location close to the Eastgate Quarter (even though id thought the distance to the Merrion is just as great as that to Trinity). :bash:



The Civic Trust and the YEP fail to appreciate how different Trinity/Eastgate/Core/Merrion and Brodgate will operate when complete.

Eastgate will be a regionally dominant scheme with an offer directed to a catchment stretching over the north of England. 2500 spaces and a motoroway running to the front door will deliver shoppers from far and wide. (Leeds and Glasgow are the only Cities in the UK that have this). The Trinity scheme, although strong, will concern local shopping used predominantly office workers/those who want a quick shop from the south and to the West. And now without an anchor from what 5th Elevation has mentioned Land Sec will have to find a point of difference if they aspire to have the retailers they want.

The Core, which is small retail units and a foodcourt, Broadgate, which I believe is fully let predominantly to Sainsburys, and the Merrion, which will be dsicount retailing will all have differing offers from each other and all will work on their own. We can have a city totally let to Flash Harry retailers!

Broadgate is Sainsburys and TK Maxx.

Trinity could have H&M and Topshop as anchors, as long as they are large enough. BHS is an anchor, surely?

Broadgate is Sainsburys and TK Maxx.

Trinity could have H&M and Topshop as anchors, as long as they are large enough. BHS is an anchor, surely?

H&M and Topshop are not really anchors. BHS is good but its not a new offer.

If they are big flagship stores, I don't see why they can't be anchors. It could do the same thing VQ did- offer free rent for 10 years to someone like Harrods, Fortnum & Mason etc.

And now without an anchor from what 5th Elevation has mentioned Land Sec will have to find a point of difference if they aspire to have the retailers they want.

Didn't quite say that!

Even Flow is pretty confident M&S will stay in their existing store and trade from 2 locations. It is going to be confusing for retailers, though. On the one hand you'll have the Trinity developers arguing that the main M&S will still be on Briggate, but you'll also have the Eastgate developers arguing theirs is the biggest (and therefore best) M&S outside London.

Agree with you though that Trinity and Eastgate are not in competition as they don't compare in scale - one's an extension with no car parking or major anchors, one's a proper regional "shopping centre" (for want of a better term).

If they are big flagship stores, I don't see why they can't be anchors. It could do the same thing VQ did- offer free rent for 10 years to someone like Harrods, Fortnum & Mason etc.

A great idea and would do the trick. Sadly Land Sec's shareholders wouldn't look too favourably at it when the scheme made a huge loss!

A great idea and would do the trick. Sadly Land Sec's shareholders wouldn't look too favourably at it when the scheme made a huge loss!

Conversley, Hammersons and Town Centres shareholders would probably approve......

M&S are going to have a huge prescence in Leeds if that is their plan, as they (1) have opened a large store in the White Rose Centre, (2) the large Owlcoates is still going strong, (3) they are about to open a large unit in Crown Point shopping park, and now (4) the prospect of a flagship store in Eastgate, and (5) their existing (although perhaps to be reduced) store, all in addition to their metro stores at the station and elsewhere around Leeds.

They did have two stores on Briggate before their commercial dip, the current Zara store and it's neighbour was an M&S Robin store; a store branding type that came and went a few years ago used for their ex-Littlewoods stores they bought up.

M&S are going to have a huge prescence in Leeds if that is their plan, as they (1) have opened a large store in the White Rose, (2) the large Owlcoates is still going strong, (3) they are about to open a large unit in Crown Point shopping park, and now (4) the prospect of a flagship store in Eastgate, and (5) their existing (although perhaps smaller) store, all in addition to their metro stores at the station and elsewhere around Leeds.

They did have two stores on Briggate before their commercial dip, the current Zara store and it's neighbour was an M&S Robin store; a store branding type that came and went a few years ago used for their ex-Littlewoods stores they bought up.


M & S also had two stores for a while, some years before they set up in what is now Zara. Does anyone remember when they had the current HMV store on Lands Lane? I think it was just menswear that was sold there but it didn't seem to last very long.

I'd heard about M&S being the original tenant for the HMV unit, it must have been pretty small. HMV opened 95/96 I think so they were only there for 5 years.

Oh yes, I remember that now, I think they were in the current HMV store from the beginning of what was the Schofield Centre, and perhaps quit that when they took on the second Briggate store; it was around the same time anyway.

Oh yes, I remember that now, I think they were in the current HMV store from the beginning of what was the Schofield Centre, and perhaps quit that when they took on the second Briggate store; it was around the same time anyway.

I think they left Schofields during the mid 1990s due to the Briggate store having been on an expansion programme which at the start of that decade I believe what is now the top two floors of M&S were used as stock rooms and hence when they had the capacity following the conversion of that into retail space they moved everything onto one larger site and sold the Lands Lane store to HMV.

You could also mention in your posts regarding M&S's presence across Leeds about the prospects of a new store in Bradford at Broadway (when that finally is completed) as well as a huge M&S distibution centre planned to open for around 2010 at the junction of the M606 and Bradford Ring Road as well as stores around other towns and cities around West Yorkshire.

So are they definately keeping two city centre stores following the development of Eastgate? As for the Victoria Quarter Munro just how did it make such a loss when it opened? Was it due to the early 1990s recession and as for Harvey Nichols I presume they pay rent now and is there a similar incentive for a reduced rent for any of the department stores at Eastgate?

the website for eastgateleeds says 2 department stores. 1 is obviously john lewis. what's the other?

the website for eastgateleeds says 2 department stores. 1 is obviously john lewis. what's the other?

Marks and Spencers apparently. See post 909 onwards for details.

the website for eastgateleeds says 2 department stores. 1 is obviously john lewis. what's the other?

Wiggleyleeds, you've obviously not had a chance to review the pre-christmas banter on this (check earlier in the thread). 2nd department store will be Marks & Spencer, for (we think) their largest store outside central London. W also think they will be keeping their Briggate store. Announcement to be made next week.

thats good news but its a shame it isnt something a little more exclusive :(

the website for eastgateleeds says 2 department stores. 1 is obviously john lewis. what's the other?

"2 department stores and 10 flagship retail units" Does this know they know the 10 flagship's aswell then? :banana:

Morning All - see announcement on Estates Gazette. Its Official!

Hammerson signs M&S for Leeds' Eastgate centre
Paul Norman 14/01/2008 09:00


Hammerson and Town Centre Securities have agreed terms with Marks & Spencer to anchor their proposed 1.5m sq ft Eastgate scheme in Leeds.

The 193,750 sq ft store will comprise 150,000 sq ft of trading space.

Hammerson and Town Centre Securities gained planning permission for the scheme, located in the Eastgate and Harewood Quarters of the city, in February last year.

The scheme, to be developed in a 90:10 joint venture, will include 1.2m sq ft of retail and also be anchored by a 280,000 sq ft John Lewis store.

It will include over 100 shops, restaurants and bars, a hotel, offices, up to 600 homes and 2,700 associated car parking spaces.

Construction of Eastgate Quarters will begin in 2009, with completion in 2012.

The total cost of the development is estimated at £800m, of which Hammerson's 90% share would amount to £720m.

John Richards, chief executive of Hammerson, said: "I am delighted that one of the UK's most successful retailers has committed to our scheme. This is a major step forward in our bid to bring a retail offer of the highest quality to the people of Leeds and the surrounding areas."

paul.norman@egi.co.uk

That's good news you've posted there, Munro, and confirms what some of the forumers have been reporting. The news has also made it into today's edition of the YEP.

Typically, the YEP managed to get the size of the store wrong but the article does confirm that this new Eastgate store will be in addition to M & S's existing operation on Briggate.


"M&S, which began life on a Leeds market stall, said the new store would "complement" its existing outlet in Briggate rather than replacing it.

M&S said its new outlet would bring together a wide range of fashion across womenswear, menswear and childrenswear, as well as a full home offer and food hall with a bakery."

Anyone know where the M&S Store will be sited? Vicar Lane would be an appropriate location.

M & S also had two stores for a while, some years before they set up in what is now Zara. Does anyone remember when they had the current HMV store on Lands Lane? I think it was just menswear that was sold there but it didn't seem to last very long.

Well as they are a Leeds company in origin it seems quite appropriate. Perhaps they should've moved their HQ here rather than Chester. Chester for goodness sake.

Yes it would make more sense to have their HQ in Leeds. Oh well.

For some reason, I seem to think the M&S store will be on the north side of Templar Arcade, quite far west. Maybe not; I can't remember where I got this idea from.

Yes it would make more sense to have their HQ in Leeds. Oh well.

For some reason, I seem to think the M&S store will be on the north side of Templar Arcade, quite far west. Maybe not; I can't remember where I got this idea from.

I was thinking where the purple building (front) is on the original masterplan.


http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-iso.jpg

Oh... I also thought it might have been on Ebenezer St. So really we don't know is the bottom line here! Now we have 2 anchors, we need to find out the 10 flagships!

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/files/Internet2007/2006/week34/inter__5e727b5a-23a2-48e0-8762-b3093851a478_898f0311-5021-4d5f-abe8-a5e8c3f86e5e.pdf Might be somewhere in this?

In the YEP it says that M & S will have a 'massive new store....of 18,250 sq. ft'. Should not that have read sq.m. ? (It correctly says that John Lewis will be
26,000 sq.m.)

Incidentally, it is to be hoped that the recent downturn in business that M & S is experiencing (with its share price dropping like a stone) won't affect their plans for this and other proposed new stores!

I was thinking where the purple building (front) is on the original masterplan.


http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-iso.jpg

It's where the orange block is - in the area where the old cinema (now demolished) was.

It drives me insane all this doom and gloom about sale downturns! A proper downturn is when the sales go down, at the end of the day M&S have still increased there sales this year compared to last year which is a good thing! Just becuase it wasnt as high as expected everyone suddenly starts panicking.

It drives me insane all this doom and gloom about sale downturns! A proper downturn is when the sales go down, at the end of the day M&S have still increased there sales this year compared to last year which is a good thing! Just becuase it wasnt as high as expected everyone suddenly starts panicking.

Exactly. M&S made huge profits and are expected to make huge profits this year - share price does not really reflect the actual trading performance of retailers. Its their like for like sales. Lots of retailers have actually performed very well last year and especially over xmas, however those who don't really know their offer or point of difference have suffered.

The City guys see share prices fall and then the media get on the back of it and outline the wrong message to the public.

Exactly. M&S made huge profits and are expected to make huge profits this year - share price does not really reflect the actual trading performance of retailers. Its their like for like sales. Lots of retailers have actually performed very well last year and especially over xmas, however those who don't really know their offer or point of difference have suffered.

The City guys see share prices fall and then the media get on the back of it and outline the wrong message to the public.

Of course, M&S made huge profits and are expected to make huge profits this year - but not quite as huge as everyone - including the company itself - was expecting. Just compare its record with that of John Lewis. Hence the fall in the share price. It's now below the 400p offered by Sir Philip Green in his effort to buy out the company some years ago!

The question remains;could this (if sustained) affect plans for future expansion?

The chain might not be making as much money as they expected but there still making more money than the previous year, therefore the company is still growing. Expansion costs money, theyve done a lot of that recently, but in order for the company to increase there profits they must keep expanding so i cant see them halting the expansion, slowing don maybe but certainly not halting. And this announcement would hint that they have signed for a unit, in which case it will happen as i ould imagine for them to pull out would cost them a lot of money in penalties.

It's where the orange block is - in the area where the old cinema (now demolished) was.

Thanks for clearing that one up. It's good to see the blocks furthest away from the central shopping core have already been taken.

In the YEP it says that M & S will have a 'massive new store....of 18,250 sq. ft'. Should not that have read sq.m. ? (It correctly says that John Lewis will be
26,000 sq.m.)

It is to be 196,400 sq ft (according to Property Week). 18,250 sq ft would just about make a large corner shop!

They are a complete set of chumps at YEP!

And chumpettes.

So does 196,400 sq ft make it biggest outside London as rumoured? And the John Lewis is even bigger - would this also be a flagship outside London?
Furthermore, House of Fraser must surely be beginning to panic, since they already have a reasonably small store in Leeds?...

I seem to remember reading somewhere that John Lewis were planning to make the Leeds store their northern flagship. Which would make sense tbh when you think about it. House of Fraser need to sort out their store =/ a good refit externally and internally would be most welcome.

From the 100% accurate wikipedia:

M&S have over 520 stores located throughout the UK, providing nearly 1.2 million square metres (12.5 million square feet) of selling space. This includes its largest store located on Oxford Street, near Marble Arch, London, which has around 16,000 square metres (170,000 square feet) of sales floor. Outside London, the next biggest store is located in Warrington and the third largest store is located at Sprucefield Centre in Northern Ireland, which also has it's own homeware only store, the second of which opened in the UK. The fourth largest store will be the forthcoming branch at Silverburn Centre, Pollok in Glasgow which as of 25 Oct 07 becomes the largest Marks and Spencer in Scotland[[1]].

So depending on storage/servicing/staff area size, definately one of the biggest...

So does 196,400 sq ft make it biggest outside London as rumoured? And the John Lewis is even bigger - would this also be a flagship outside London?
Furthermore, House of Fraser must surely be beginning to panic, since they already have a reasonably small store in Leeds?...

http://www.cabe.org.uk/AssetLibrary/2829.jpg

Well I did read on the Manchester forum a rumour that the Marks and Spencer there could retake the part of their building currently occupied by Selfridges which was originally part of the M&S but had sold to them when they had trouble a few years back (and the Selfridges store had been rumoured to move either to the Spinningfields development site or to part of the old Lewis's department store in Manchester that is now occupied by Primark and until recently by TK Maxx. I remembered that was the biggest M&S outside of London when it had opened but is this planned Leeds store larger? http://www.manchesterconfidential.com/index.asp?Sessionx=IpqiNwIjNw7oJwP6IHqjNwB6IA&realname=Sleuth_11/01/2008

Marks and Expansion
Rumour of the week is that Marks and Spencer want back the other half of their building which they gave to Selfridges in 2002. Originally M&S had traded across the whole site but then found themselves rattling round the place as business dipped. Despite recent trading results they think they could do very good business across the full area once more. Sleuth will keep you posted.

Selfridges and Primark
The M&S rumour has led to another one that this might all be timed so that Selfridges could then move into the rapidly improving Piccadilly area – perhaps in the Lewis’s building now partially occupied by Primark. This way Primani and Armani could live side by side. Another rumour that Selfridges might move into the Affleck’s site should the stall-holders have to shift appears to be without substance.

Still a combined Briggate and Eastgate Quarter presence for M&S must surely be exceptionally high regarding floorspace and would be a major boon for Leeds.

Agree with your point regarding House of Fraser their existing store alongside the infamous Market St Arcade really desperately needs redevelopment and I wonder why they ever moved out of the Schofields building in the mid 1990s especially as that was a landmark department store or perhaps taken on part of the Leeds Lewis's building when Allders had went bust as opposed to splitting it into smaller retail units with flats and offices above especially as House of Frasers in other cities such as Kendals in Manchester and Rackhams in Birmingham have more floor space?

I wonder where in Leeds city centre they could possibly go if they relocated other than shudder the White Rose Centre which I doubt. Is there any possible room at Trinity Quarter for them especially with rumours other operators could perhaps open in Leeds in the future such as Fenwich which I read on here a while back and remember never say never regarding Selfridges. If they change ownership in the future could we see some change on that front although it is of course wishful thinking on my part.

Well as they are a Leeds company in origin it seems quite appropriate. Perhaps they should've moved their HQ here rather than Chester. Chester for goodness sake.

In fact Chester is home to the M&S Money division of Marks and Spencer (owned by HSBC) and the actual location of Marks and Spencer's head office is near Paddington station in Central London. Still did M&S ever have an office presence in Leeds?

Anyone see the article today in building design. Seems John Lewis and the developers are going for some young guns on this one. Intersting mix of architects.

Seems there will be some news in the next week or two if this article is right.

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=426&storycode=3104097&c=2&encCode=0000000001431a88

The council are saying Farrells are still involved "to a certain extent" - what does that mean :nuts:.

It would be great if the architects featured there were chosen. Very sharp, modern designs which I think look fantastic.

Bring on Eastgate!

Is John Lewis going to be the largest outside London at 260,000 sq ft? How does it compare in size with the flagship store on Oxford ST?

The firm, which is up against competition from Japan’s Kengo Kuma, Acme, and Jacobs Architecture, is due to present its designs for the prestigious retail project in the next week.

A decent nugget of information there.

Carmody Groake have just won a competition in Sheffield to design an extension to the Showroom cinema (Yorkshire's best imo) using their brand of stylish minimalism.

http://www.bdonline.co.uk/Pictures/468xAny/v/u/p/CarmodyGroarke_ready.jpg

http://www.cabe.org.uk/AssetLibrary/2829.jpg

Well I did read on the Manchester forum a rumour that the Marks and Spencer there could retake the part of their building currently occupied by Selfridges which was originally part of the M&S but had sold to them when they had trouble a few years back (and the Selfridges store had been rumoured to move either to the Spinningfields development site or to part of the old Lewis's department store in Manchester that is now occupied by Primark and until recently by TK Maxx. I remembered that was the biggest M&S outside of London when it had opened but is this planned Leeds store larger? http://www.manchesterconfidential.com/index.asp?Sessionx=IpqiNwIjNw7oJwP6IHqjNwB6IA&realname=Sleuth_11/01/2008



Still a combined Briggate and Eastgate Quarter presence for M&S must surely be exceptionally high regarding floorspace and would be a major boon for Leeds.

Agree with your point regarding House of Fraser their existing store alongside the infamous Market St Arcade really desperately needs redevelopment and I wonder why they ever moved out of the Schofields building in the mid 1990s especially as that was a landmark department store or perhaps taken on part of the Leeds Lewis's building when Allders had went bust as opposed to splitting it into smaller retail units with flats and offices above especially as House of Frasers in other cities such as Kendals in Manchester and Rackhams in Birmingham have more floor space?

I wonder where in Leeds city centre they could possibly go if they relocated other than shudder the White Rose Centre which I doubt. Is there any possible room at Trinity Quarter for them especially with rumours other operators could perhaps open in Leeds in the future such as Fenwich which I read on here a while back and remember never say never regarding Selfridges. If they change ownership in the future could we see some change on that front although it is of course wishful thinking on my part.



In fact Chester is home to the M&S Money division of Marks and Spencer (owned by HSBC) and the actual location of Marks and Spencer's head office is near Paddington station in Central London. Still did M&S ever have an office presence in Leeds?

Funny that the address on all their goods is Chester, no longer Baker Street.

Funny that the address on all their goods is Chester, no longer Baker Street.
Because they moved out of Baker street, its being redeveloped / or has being, as remember reading about the strip out and how long it was to take due to i think to it having asbestos in it, articule was probably in construction news.

Is John Lewis going to be the largest outside London at 260,000 sq ft? How does it compare in size with the flagship store on Oxford ST?

Oxford street is 366700 sq ft, but leeds store will be biggest provincial store, not much smaller if not same size as lewis's was

Oxford street is 366700 sq ft, but leeds store will be biggest provincial store, not much smaller if not same size as lewis's was

That'll do for me......lets get it started

Confirmation from PropertyWeek that the new M&S will be biggest outside London:
"Hammerson and Town Centre Securities have signed Marks & Spencer for its largest store outside London in Leeds."
Quite an achievement, particularly for a city centre store...

so does that mean, even tho we wont get selfridges, both the M&S and JohnLewis new stores will both be the largest outside london?

It seems so, yes.

john lewis cambridge is 280,000 sq ft, and john lewis solihull is 265,000 sq ft

I've updated the wiki M&S page to make mention of the new M&S store, as it lists the largest stores and future stores but no mention of leeds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marks_&_Spencer

Is John Lewis going to be the largest outside London at 260,000 sq ft? How does it compare in size with the flagship store on Oxford ST?

The Sheffield store will be either 260,000 or 269,000 sqft (theres a few conflicting numbers floating around), so pretty much the same size.

I think you should be in for an excellent design for the John Lewis. Carmody Groarke have some brilliant looking projects, and if it's a competition I would assume the other architects would be of a similar standard (I haven't looked at the others).

Jerde are involved in the plans to completely redevelop Coventry's tired looking precinct. Apparently, this means that the city is 'once again, leading the world in town planning'. :ohno:

It's nice to know that Hammerson's think such a lot of us:


Leeds is great and can be even greater


By Nigel Scott Business Editor


LEEDS is a city of opportunity and a "great place which could be better", according to a senior national property developer.

Robert Hancox is a director of developer Hammerson and project director of the Leeds City Partnership which has brought Hammerson together with Leeds-based Town Centre Securities to deliver the city's multi-million pound Eastgate development.

He will also be one of five keynote speakers at a major new business conference being staged by the Yorkshire Evening Post and Leeds Chamber of Commerce.

The event, at Leeds United's Elland Road Banqueting Suite on Wednesday, March 5, is being supported by Marketing Leeds and will launch a year-long series of business-themed events in the city under the city brand, Leeds.Live it.Love it.

The speakers will address four themes.

The Business of Finance will feature Yorkshire Bank operations director Glenn King and the Leeds-based bank's head of retail, Gary Lumby.

The Business of Communication will hear from Jonathan Refoy, head of property communications at Leeds-based ASDAWal-Mart.

The Business of the Built Environment will feature Mr Hancox and the Business of Change will be addressed by Ian Neild, a futurologist at telecomsgiant BT whose job is to predict the technological advances that will impact our lives.

Mr Hancox told the YEP his address would "look forward to where Leeds will be by looking back at where other cities we have invested in have been".

"Leeds is a great opportunity," he continued, "and we are trying to tap into that. It's a great place that could be better – and we want to create that."

He said one of the key things Leeds had in its favour was the extraordinary level of commitment shown by the private sector in investing in the city.

It's nice to know that Hammerson's think such a lot of us:


Leeds is great and can be even greater


By Nigel Scott Business Editor


LEEDS is a city of opportunity and a "great place which could be better", according to a senior national property developer.

Robert Hancox is a director of developer Hammerson and project director of the Leeds City Partnership which has brought Hammerson together with Leeds-based Town Centre Securities to deliver the city's multi-million pound Eastgate development.

He will also be one of five keynote speakers at a major new business conference being staged by the Yorkshire Evening Post and Leeds Chamber of Commerce.

The event, at Leeds United's Elland Road Banqueting Suite on Wednesday, March 5, is being supported by Marketing Leeds and will launch a year-long series of business-themed events in the city under the city brand, Leeds.Live it.Love it.

The speakers will address four themes.

The Business of Finance will feature Yorkshire Bank operations director Glenn King and the Leeds-based bank's head of retail, Gary Lumby.

The Business of Communication will hear from Jonathan Refoy, head of property communications at Leeds-based ASDAWal-Mart.

The Business of the Built Environment will feature Mr Hancox and the Business of Change will be addressed by Ian Neild, a futurologist at telecomsgiant BT whose job is to predict the technological advances that will impact our lives.

Mr Hancox told the YEP his address would "look forward to where Leeds will be by looking back at where other cities we have invested in have been".

"Leeds is a great opportunity," he continued, "and we are trying to tap into that. It's a great place that could be better – and we want to create that."

He said one of the key things Leeds had in its favour was the extraordinary level of commitment shown by the private sector in investing in the city.

I can't think of a place in the world that couldn't be better. Not sure what the fuss is about or is our city perfect?

I can't think of a place in the world that couldn't be better. Not sure what the fuss is about or is our city perfect?

I have a warm and fuzzy feeling now! what lovely people:banana:

Felt like taking a few random pics of the Eastgate area today, mainly because some of these buildings will be meeting their maker at the end of this year (hopefully).
This building on the left will be migrating 12m down the hill...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7643/1001001sw4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This building will be departing

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4972/1001002tj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6261/1001003jg7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This building is staying put..

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7817/1001004uh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

These on the right are staying for the most part, with the addition of an arch being cut through them to link to Eastgate. Of course, the Templar building nearest the camera is to be restored.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9095/1001005un7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The Lyons building is leaving us....

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/974/1001006ck3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

as is this rather non-descript affair...

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2536/1001007wm3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Creating in arch will be good; would mirror The Light's arch, and provide a useful link, improving connectivity.

I didn't realise the Eastgate building was moving down the hill, i thought it was moving up. (I'm not subtly challenging your claim btw :) ) That's good news. Shame about the Lyon's factory though (and the Labour Exchange)