Eastgate Quarters Development

[ps60]

Proposed Harewood/Eastgate Quarter Development

http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-site.jpg

The face of Leeds is changing at a rate not seen for a century, when it gained much of its present Victorian/Edwardian character. Some of the developments of that productive period were fairly large scale - what is now the Victoria Quarter, for example, or the widening of Boar Lane. But even those pale by comparison to the scale of some current schemes. To the west, redevelopment of the area between Wellington Street and the river is well under way and Kirkstall Road towards the viaduct will be transformed over the next few years. To the south, Holbeck Urban Village will soon be joined by Holbeck Student Village. The City Centre is also extending eastward toward Richmond Bridge, with a number of schemes for development along East Street.

But the proposed development which may have most impact on most people is that for the area east of Vicar Lane to St Peter's Street, stretching from Kirkgate market north across Eastgate to the inner ring road, where developer Hammersons has joined with Town Centre Securities in a bid to create a shopping extension equivalent to about a half of the present city centre retail area. Development of what is now mainly open car parking is long overdue, of course, and at its eastern edge, the fortress of Millgarth Police Station is arguably the ugliest building in the city. But the development site also encompasses Eastgate, which, with the Headrow, was another face-changing development when Sir Reginald Blomfeld's vision of a grand axis was constructed in the 1930s. The proposal also includes all the buildings between the Templar Street car park right down to Quarry Hill.

http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-iso.jpg

The intention is to bring two major department stores to Leeds - the larger being John Lewis Partnership and the smaller as yet uncertain (originally to be Selfridges), with the remainder of the site to be built mainly as retail units. A planning application has yet to be made, but it would seem that most of the existing buildings, including Eastgate itself, would be swept away by this 70s-style comprehensive redevelopment.

The Trust's planning committee has had a presentation of the proposals and our comments can be seen in full on the web site. We are happy to see these wasteland car parks brought back into more productive use. We are assured, though surprised, that Leeds can cope with another 1.25 million sq.ft of retail space (most to be supplied by this and the Trinity Quarter) but would hope to see the shopping experience build on the existing character, with specialist shopping adding to, rather than replacing, the existing Chinese quarter. Set against the desire for more high quality shopping, these businesses, along with the existing social housing, are equally valuable socially and economically, if not financially. The financial deficit needs to be equalised by the use of affordable rents for business as well as residential use.

http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-assess.jpg
http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-assesskey.jpg

We see little justification for the demolition of most of the buildings on the site. Stitching new development into valued existing city fabric is more sensitive and ultimately more successful than wholesale clearance which destroys city image and collective memory along with the fabric. Moreover, creating a vibrant and interesting "place" with its own identity and character is more likely to be successful if it uses elements of the existing. The Light is a good example. We are strongly opposed to the demolition of buildings which are sound, have a useful function, and contribute to the character of the area.

The scheme proposes to retain the axis of Eastgate in terms of vista and circulation, but not in terms of spatial quality. Opening part of this up to a public square is a nice idea, but not if its scale destroys the visual enclosure that defines the axis. The buildings on the north side of Eastgate are good enough to retain, though they could be made more permeable at ground level. The "bookends" at the east end of Eastgate create a specific visual image which is clearly distinctive and identifiable. This important duality, emphasising the Eastgate axis, is an image of the city which should be retained, though we would be happy to see the inclusion of the Appleyards roundabout into the scheme to increase pedestrian space.

http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/he-bookend.jpg

The proposals also provide the opportunity to create varied spaces. Such a large area needs variety, and that should include decent sized sunny green spaces with grass and trees to provide a quiet relaxing contrast to the tight, hard urban spaces and enclosed malls. Roof areas should certainly be 'greened', and should be publicly and easily accessible, to create usable areas out of normally wasted space.

Traffic generation also needs to be carefully considered. This development could add considerably to the load already borne by the city's roads, and we would not like to see this used as an excuse for yet more swathes of the city to be lost to dispiriting and wasteful traffic junctions.

This development presents an opportunity for Leeds to break the standard mould of sterile and temporarily shiny shopping malls. It could be an area of intimate spaces contrasting with grand vistas, of places for quiet contemplation contrasting with bustling movement, of modern architecture at its best to sit in harmony with the gently weathered fabric of the past. The developers have embarked on an extensive process of public engagement and our views have been given to them. Although we have not had a response yet, the planning application will soon be submitted, and we will then see how effective that process of public engagement has been.

This article is reproduced from the June 2004 edition of the Leeds Civic Trust Newsletter.

[jimbo]

Leeds based Town Centre Securities (who are developing the Harewood/Eastgate Quarter in conjunction with the FTSE index listed Hammerson property developers) have updated their development page to show a couple of thumbnail images of the concept designs for Harewood/Eastgate.

not much info and really just confirms what we knew already about public consultations etc.

Here's the link....

Town Centre Securities (http://www.tcs-plc.com/develop_port/develop_port.html)

there is also a link to the Russell Mellon Caps site which has some development shots of the new office on Whitehall Road.

[Leeds No.1]

Good find- every little bit of information helps!

[jimbo]

bit of text from YEP following annoucement of John Lewis. Only 5 years to go then!

EASTGATE AND HAREWOOD QUARTER – LEEDS
Evening Post, Leeds 26 April 2005

Shopping in Leeds today received a massive boost with the announcement that John Lewis is to open an department store in the city.

It will be part of a £500 million development creating thousands of jobs and further cementing the city's reputation as one of the country's top shopping centres.

The department store - due to open in June 2010 - will on its own create 900 jobs and will be the centrepiece of the proposed development of the area between Eastgate and the Kirkgate market.

Covering 1,000, 000 square feet the new Harewood Quarter will also include, leisure facilities, 500 apartments and 2500 car parking spaces.

It is to be developed by Hammerson and Town Centre Securities who have formed The Leeds Partnership. A planning application for the scheme will be submitted before the end of the year. Ann Humphries, retail development director of John Lewis, said: "We are delighted to have finally found the right location for John Lewis. We have been working
with Leeds City Council for a long time."

Coun Andrew Carter, council leader said: "The development is a vital component in the regeneration of Leeds City Centre."

"We are delighted that John Lewis has committed to the city and remain convinced that the combined skills provided by Hammerson and Town Centre Securities will ensure that the proposed scheme will meet the city's unique requirements.

John Bywater, managing director UK of Hammerson, said: "This development will bring a vibrant new element to Leeds city centre. The decision by John Lewis to be a central part of this new city quarter is a clear demonstration of retailer confidence in the strength of our proposal."

Edward Ziff, Town Centres Securities chairman and chief executive said: "This is a landmark project for us in our home city. Through our partnership with the council and with Hammerson we will be able to create a major regional destination which will become a blueprint for other towns and cities across the UK."

With the opening of a department store in Leeds, John Lewis will fill a major gap in its UK coverage. It is the latest announcement as part of its plans to open 10 new shops in new locations from 2007.

[Leeds No.1]

Does this confirmation of an opening of a John Lewis store in Leeds mean that the Eastgate/Harewood Quarter or at least this part is almost guaranteed to go ahead and be finished by 2010?
It should be an amazing place to shop and live in anyway by 2010- it may well be the 2nd destination for shopping outside London if it gets them built and it attracts the right shops.

[ps60]

500 apartments. Could this mean a tall tower (much taller than the original 20 storey - say 30/40/50?)

[Fred2]

Does this confirmation of an opening of a John Lewis store in Leeds mean that the Eastgate/Harewood Quarter or at least this part is almost guaranteed to go ahead and be finished by 2010?
It should be an amazing place to shop and live in anyway by 2010- it may well be the 2nd destination for shopping outside London if it gets them built and it attracts the right shops.

You would probably be right Leeds No.1 - except you can't expect the other city centres to be standing still waiting for Leeds to overtake them ?

[ps60]

You would probably be right Leeds No.1 - except you can't expect the other city centres to be standing still waiting for Leeds to overtake them ?
True. For Leeds to go up a few places, not only does the Harewood and Trinity developments need to happen, but others too. Big improvements to all the other shopping centres needs to take place as well, as well as that disgusting arcade opposite where the Trinity development will be.

[Leeds No.1]

True, but these are pertty big schemes will are complemented by extra shops in places like Clarence Dock and Quarry Hill, which should become mroe integrated with the city centre in the next few years.
I say Leeds might become a better place to shop than other regional cities, because Birminghams flagship retail development, the bullring is complete, and Manchesters is the Arndale. So as long as Leeds' outdoes these developments then it has real potential.

[Leeds No.1]

While the Trinity, Harewood and Eastgate Quarters with Kirkgate Market renovation, Briggate Pedestrianization, Allders and Primark, do you think that the city centre could improve on whats there before these are built, while we are waiting? The Headrow Shopping Centre looks a bit dead these days- I walked in today and it might as well have been closed. The Leeds Shopping Plaza and Merrion Centre also could do with something. The shopping centres seem to be a bit of a side attraction now, in comparison to streets. I dont really know, but I think that alot more shops could be fitted into the Headrow, Merrion and Leeds Shopping Plaza centres, particularly if they were redesigned. Most the shopping centres do not provide much of an interesting design or experience at the moment- they're just boring.
I find the light to be quite strange too- its a great building but to say by floorspace its the UKs 5th largest city centre shopping centre (apparently) it doesnt reflect it. Theres not much in there really, other than the cinema. While the council is waiting, could they put some money into the existing centre, particularly in repaving some streets, and generally sprucing it up... Some new healthy trees need planting along Albion Place too.

[Fred2]

Has anyone commented before about Briggate ? The buildings on it (especially on the west side) are all higgledy piggledy, and by and large it is architecturally unprepossessing compared with main shopping streets in some other cities. Still I suppose we can't complain - the steet (if not the buildings) is rather old dating from 1207 !

[Leeds No.1]

I agree, but I find that the upper end of Briggate is much nicer and more organised than the lower end. This is partly down to the pedestrianization, but it always has been better. Im not sure if its the shops, the buildings or what. Some buildings towards the bottom are a bit scabby really. When will the pedestrianization start again- the 2nd phase should've been finished by now...

[Fred2]

I agree, but I find that the upper end of Briggate is much nicer and more organised than the lower end. This is partly down to the pedestrianization, but it always has been better. Im not sure if its the shops, the buildings or what. Some buildings towards the bottom are a bit scabby really. When will the pedestrianization start again- the 2nd phase should've been finished by now...

The pedestrianisation of Briggate should have been completed by now. Apparently the hold up of the second phase was because of mounting costs. It should go ahead soon and be done in two stages - the second early next year.

[magicrealist]

The pedestrianisation of Briggate should have been completed by now. Apparently the hold up of the second phase was because of mounting costs. It should go ahead soon and be done in two stages - the second early next year.
Funny, I thought it was just about to start again - all the prelim work seems to have been done judging by the markings on the ground!

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[di Livio]

[QUOTE=Fred2]Has anyone commented before about Briggate ? The buildings on it (especially on the west side) are all higgledy piggledy, and by and large it is architecturally unprepossessing compared with main shopping streets in some other cities.QUOTE]

Maybe towards the Northern end of Briggate, but the section in the centre always looks elegant to me. Its higgledy-piggledyness is quite attractive. (imposing my views on others)

http://img1.travelblog.org/Photos/2154/5951/f/21877-View-of-Leeds-City-Centre-0.jpg


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4746659.stm

[di Livio]

http://www.tcs-plc.com/develop_port/development/images/3d.jpg http://www.tcs-plc.com/develop_port/development/images/3d2.jpg http://www.tcs-plc.com/develop_port/development/images/3d4.jpg http://www.tcs-plc.com/develop_port/development/images/3d5.jpg

Following the signing of a joint venture agreement between ourselves and Hammersons we have renamed the scheme the Eastgate and Harewood Quarter to be carried out by the Leeds Partnership, TCS and Hammersons in conjunction with Leeds City Council.
A further round of public consultation will take place on this major retail led regeneration scheme in Leeds City Centre prior to a planning application being submitted in the second quarter of 2005. This scheme comprises of around 1m sqft of retail together with 2500 car parking spaces, leisure and residential. More detailed information will be published following the next round of public consultation in September 2005.

It's encouraging to see images of the Calatrava's Toronto galleria in the consultation document.

http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/bce/BCE%20bay%20entrance.jpg

http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/bce/BCE%20Galleria.jpg

[ps60]

A further round of public consultation will take place on this major retail led regeneration scheme in Leeds City Centre prior to a planning application being submitted in the second quarter of 2005.
We're more than halfway through the third quarter, and no planning application has been submitted yet.

[di Livio]

We're more than halfway through the third quarter, and no planning application has been submitted yet.

Sorry, that news must be old.
I think the next phase involves a public consultation sometime in September 2005.

[LiveAt27Eastgate]

It's encouraging to see images of the Calatrava's Toronto galleria in the consultation document.

Ok, WHAT consultation document....I live in and own an apartment at 27 Eastgate and the lack of information is despicable!!

Mr PS60 can you please contact me direct as you seem to get lots of information from god knows where!! david@new2leeds.com

Also does anyone know who submitted a listing building status application for the "bookends". Despite previous posts about waiting to raise all objections until outline planning has been received, people are still objecting and we keep having to have further rounds of "consultation". Until outline planning is submitted we as owners are stuck living where we are, our properties are worthless, but once outline planning is submitted the law protects our interests. There is another consultaion stage once planning is submitted so there is no loss to anyone except the residents (and businesses) while pre planning applications progress.

[Fred2]

Ok, WHAT consultation document....I live in and own an apartment at 27 Eastgate and the lack of information is despicable!!

Also does anyone know who submitted a listing building status application for the "bookends". Despite previous posts about waiting to raise all objections until outline planning has been received, people are still objecting and we keep having to have further rounds of "consultation". Until outline planning is submitted we as owners are stuck living where we are, our properties are worthless, but once outline planning is submitted the law protects our interests. There is another consultaion stage once planning is submitted so there is no loss to anyone except the residents (and businesses) while pre planning applications progress.

The southern 'bookend' is occupied by Hoagy's and is due for compulsory purchase and demolition if supertram goes ahead.

[ahmedd]

Also does anyone know who submitted a listing building status application for the "bookends".

I think it may have been the Leeds Civic Trust. I understand your plight but do also belive that something should be done to save these buildings, as any plans I have seen are no where near as distinctive.

[di Livio]

[QUOTE=LiveAt27Eastgate]Ok, WHAT consultation document....I live in and own an apartment at 27 Eastgate and the lack of information is despicable!!
QUOTE]

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/pageView.aspx?view=&style=&typeIdentifier=26-9-2003-87995768&subTypeIdentifier=26-9-2003-57679332&menuIdentifier=19-1-2005-741219543&menuSectionIdentifier=4-7-2005-95967466&menuSubSectionIdentifier=&eGMSIdentifier=cce69754-520d-4e42-90e2-509f27cdc91c&searchTerm=

Click on the rather large hyperlink, and refer to 'Draft SPD'.

I would think the application for listed status almost certainly comes from the Civic Trust. It's frustrating to see the process held up even further, however they're clearly just doing the job they're supposed to do which is safeguarding Leeds' architectural heritage from the bulldozers. In my view, the bad guy here is Terry Farrell for not making more of an effort to integrate the exisiting fabric into the proposed scheme.

[ps60]

MAJOR development plans for Eastgate and the Harewood Quarter, Leeds, have made "significant progress" with a planning application for a large, retail-led, regeneration scheme.

So says Leeds-based Town Centre Securities (TCS), the property firm which is planning to develop the 20 acre site in conjunction with joint venture partner, Hammerson.

TCS said today that more than 1m sq ft of retail space would be part of the plan, alongside leisure and residential uses.

"This scheme should take another major step forward following the completion of negotiations to agree the pre-letting of the main anchor store," TCS added.

The news came as the firm unveiled preliminary results for the year ended June 30. Pre-tax profits climbed by 29 per cent to £8.5m (2004: £6.6m) while underlying profit before tax, excluding disposals and exceptional costs, rose by 2.5pc to £8.2m from £8m a year ago.

Over the past year the company has repurchased 3.7m shares at a cost of £11.7m, helping to boost both earnings and net assets per share.

Chairman and chief executive, Edward Ziff, said a strong performance from its investment property portfolio produced a revaluation surplus. Most of the group's property portfolio is represented by retail properties in Leeds, York, Glasgow and Edinburgh and some office properties in Leeds and Glasgow, including at Whitehall Riverside, Leeds, where the first major office building is due for completion early next year.

Yorkshire Evening Post - 09 September 2005

[Leeds No.1]

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/living/planning/LDF%20-%20consultations%20only/LDF%20consultation%20-%20Eastgate%20and%20Harewood%20Quarter%20online%20comments%20form/page.aspx?style=

[ps60]

http://www.leeds.gov.uk/living/planning/LDF%20-%20consultations%20only/LDF%20consultation%20-%20Eastgate%20and%20Harewood%20Quarter%20online%20comments%20form/page.aspx?style=
It says "Comments to be received no later than Wednesday, 20th July 2005". A bit late for that it seems.

[ps60]

I reckon that thanks to the cancellation of Supertram, we can say goodbye to this project.

[Leeds No.1]

Wouldn't be so sure... John Lewis confirmed a store opening here by Autumn 2010, in the Eastgate Quarter, so I think at least part of it will be built, even if not all.

[ps60]

Wouldn't be so sure... John Lewis confirmed a store opening here by Autumn 2010, in the Eastgate Quarter, so I think at least part of it will be built, even if not all.
But the Eastgate bit makes up only around 10% of the development. We've lost 90% of it at a stroke.

[di Livio]

I reckon that thanks to the cancellation of Supertram, we can say goodbye to this project.

Why so? It's not dependent on supertram, is it?

[Leeds No.1]

I dont think it is the Harewood/Eastgate Qtr, coz to start with JL confirmed a store here, secondly, Supertram isn't essential for it, is it? And thirdly, it says its a development of £2.4bn, and this is £500m....

[Metrolink]

I suspect the £2.4bn was a scare figure, to put pressure on people for a positive outcome, probably a combination of schemes that were near the trams, not doubt some of which will still go ahead.

[jimbo]

I suspect the £2.4bn was a scare figure, to put pressure on people for a positive outcome, probably a combination of schemes that were near the trams, not doubt some of which will still go ahead.

absolutely, there is no way TCS/Hammerson would throw toys out of the pram and can the Harewood/Eastgate Quarter on the basis of no supertram. To be frank, the site doesn't need Supertram to work. The rest of Leeds, including the locale around Clarence Dock, however, does.

[Stig282]

Why is it being called the Harewood Qtr? Just because of Harewood Street?

What used to be on the open parking?

[Rob]

Originally Posted by ps60
I reckon that thanks to the cancellation of Supertram, we can say goodbye to this project.

Why so? It's not dependent on supertram, is it?

I wondered exactly this.

The reason is that Look North reported yesterday that a major developer was cancelling a large project in central Leeds. It couldn't be for a residential, (if anything they should increase if the Supertram is cancelled) and it couldn't be an office as all the current ones are proceeding (City Sq House, King St), so I thought it must be a big retail scheme. It isn't the Trinity Qtr as they have put in a new planning application this week, so that just leaves the Harewood Qtr.

[Skychaser 2005]

I wondered exactly this.

The reason is that Look North reported yesterday that a major developer was cancelling a large project in central Leeds. It couldn't be for a residential, (if anything they should increase if the Supertram is cancelled) and it couldn't be an office as all the current ones are proceeding (City Sq House, King St), so I thought it must be a big retail scheme. It isn't the Trinity Qtr as they have put in a new planning application this week, so that just leaves the Harewood Qtr.


Personally, I think they may well be hype from Leeds City Coucil who are quite rightly so angry with the Government on this issue.

With Supertram or not, the transport issues in Leeds are not at the point which should affect a development if it has been soundly researched and costed

[Leeds No.1]

As no particularl developer or development was mentioned, it probably is a range of developments, possibly including this and Quarry Hill and possibly other schemes...

[jimbo]

As no particularl developer or development was mentioned, it probably is a range of developments, possibly including this and Quarry Hill and possibly other schemes...

oh come on - why would Caddick or Hammerson/TCS suddenly cancel Harewood/Eastgate and Quarry Hill because of Supertram. These are core city centre sites and supertram, although a great convenience which would reduce congestion (probably) would not make a blind bit of difference to people already in the city centre.

If any major scheme is cancelled it will be City One, most likely because the site is a total fringe site, its been delayed several times, there's been a total lack of decent information or public renders, and the design has been rebuked by CABE. To be frank, Jan Fletcher made her money through car dealerships, she has no major property development experience, especially regarding a £500m mixed use scheme on the edge of the city. In any property downturn or economic squeeze, this scheme seems like the one most likely to suffer, primarily as the main financial backer can't be anywhere near strongly capitalised enought to take such a huge punt on massive scheme.

That might be the gin talking, but seriously, I have doubts about City One.

[aviator]

oh come on - why would Caddick or Hammerson/TCS suddenly cancel Harewood/Eastgate and Quarry Hill because of Supertram. These are core city centre sites and supertram, although a great convenience which would reduce congestion (probably) would not make a blind bit of difference to people already in the city centre.

If any major scheme is cancelled it will be City One, most likely because the site is a total fringe site, its been delayed several times, there's been a total lack of decent information or public renders, and the design has been rebuked by CABE. To be frank, Jan Fletcher made her money through car dealerships, she has no major property development experience, especially regarding a £500m mixed use scheme on the edge of the city. In any property downturn or economic squeeze, this scheme seems like the one most likely to suffer, primarily as the main financial backer can't be anywhere near strongly capitalised enought to take such a huge punt on massive scheme.

That might be the gin talking, but seriously, I have doubts about City One.

Do I smell a breath of fresh air on this one? Agree with you almost totally Jimbo. My only caveat is that, if City One gets cancelled (which I frankly doubt), it will have nothing whatever to do with the tramway. It's right by the motorway, it is being increasingly surrounded by other new developments, and Jan Fletcher has spent donkey's years assembling the necessary parcels of land to let her put together a viable proposition. Trams or no trams, there are squillions of buses going past there.

Finally, if it's the gin you're after, get yourself down to Tesco where they're doing an offer on Tanqueray.

[Stig282]

if it's the gin you're after, get yourself down to Tesco where they're doing an offer on Tanqueray. multi grazi ;)

[MikeinLeeds]

[QUOTE=jimbo]oh come on - why would Caddick or Hammerson/TCS suddenly cancel Harewood/Eastgate and Quarry Hill because of Supertram. These are core city centre sites and supertram, although a great convenience which would reduce congestion (probably) would not make a blind bit of difference to people already in the city centre.

If any major scheme is cancelled it will be City One, most likely because the site is a total fringe site, its been delayed several times, there's been a total lack of decent information or public renders, and the design has been rebuked by CABE. To be frank, Jan Fletcher made her money through car dealerships, she has no major property development experience, especially regarding a £500m mixed use scheme on the edge of the city. In any property downturn or economic squeeze, this scheme seems like the one most likely to suffer, primarily as the main financial backer can't be anywhere near strongly capitalised enought to take such a huge punt on massive scheme.

Most likely to be the Taylor Woodrow scheme on the Calls, since the site has suddenly come back onto the market this week.

[Stig282]

Most likely to be the Taylor Woodrow scheme on the Calls, since the site has suddenly come back onto the market this week.

The redevelopment of the Chandlers?
They had PP approved for flats upto 6 floors IIRC

[Leeds No.1]

I don't see why it would be City One as the tram wasn't planned to go there anyway, and it also has good motorway links and not too far from the station...

[Rob]

It won't be City 1 because that's Jan Fletchers little baby, and she's leading the Leeds revival, also that is accessed directly from the motorway.

It also probably isn't Quarry Hill as that could be turned all residential, which would almost benefit from the lack of supertram. Could be Wellington Place as that is mostly office.

[Leeds No.1]

I don't see why any of these would be cancelled though because they are already in the city centre so really people should be walking or cycling... I don't think it would be Wellington Place because it's already turning into prime development space, and it also has good transport links with the Station and Inner Ring Road, with quick links to national motorways and the supertram wasn't going to go near it anyway, but go up Park Row from Boar Lane at City Square, even though a proposed extension west to Bradford could go along here, but why would that affect it seeing as this is in relation to the current scheme... tbh, there aren't that many city centre schemes that the supertram would serve. The universities, the Harewood/Eastgate, The Markets, Quarry Hill, Clarence Dock/Arena, Trinity Quarter are the ones I can think of... CD and Arena are already going ahead with the arena seemingly very keen to get built, Markets already exist thats just a renovation, Trinity Quarter already has the basis and proves will be succesful because of its surroundings so that leaves Universities and Harewood/Eastgate Qtr... Maybe the Harewood Qtr wont get built and the Eastgate Qtr. will (because John Lewis confirmed to open here)... Confusing!!!

[jimbo]

Do I smell a breath of fresh air on this one? Agree with you almost totally Jimbo. My only caveat is that, if City One gets cancelled (which I frankly doubt), it will have nothing whatever to do with the tramway. It's right by the motorway, it is being increasingly surrounded by other new developments, and Jan Fletcher has spent donkey's years assembling the necessary parcels of land to let her put together a viable proposition. Trams or no trams, there are squillions of buses going past there.

Finally, if it's the gin you're after, get yourself down to Tesco where they're doing an offer on Tanqueray.

Fair point, I know the Supertram line wouldn't go anywhere near City One, but with people suggesting Harewood/Eastgate and Quarry Hill would be cancelled, I had to disagree for the reasons I've already posted. I"m still not convinced by Jan Fletcher. Time will tell.

Similarly with Wellington Place, Supertram should make no difference at all to this going ahead. In the general context of conjestion and gridlock, yes, perhaps no Supertram may impact certain sites, however I think that media soundbite about £2.4bn of investment at risk has got us all clucking like a gaggle of overactive chickens having sighted a fox prowling the perimeter.

Tesco tripped planned on the morrow, will investigate the gin tip as current supplies of Gordon's are rather decimated.

[aviator]

Fair point, I know the Supertram line wouldn't go anywhere near City One, but with people suggesting Harewood/Eastgate and Quarry Hill would be cancelled, I had to disagree for the reasons I've already posted. I"m still not convinced by Jan Fletcher. Time will tell.

Similarly with Wellington Place, Supertram should make no difference at all to this going ahead. In the general context of conjestion and gridlock, yes, perhaps no Supertram may impact certain sites, however I think that media soundbite about £2.4bn of investment at risk has got us all clucking like a gaggle of overactive chickens having sighted a fox prowling the perimeter.

Tesco tripped planned on the morrow, will investigate the gin tip as current supplies of Gordon's are rather decimated.

Gordon's?? I'm a bit disappointed that you might settle for an inferior (37.5% proof) product. It's a common trick to lower the alcohol content without lowering the price; the same happened with Pimm's. Did you know you can make your own, by the way? 2 measures of full strength gin, ditto of red vermouth, and one measure of orange curacao. Something to bear in mind for next summer.

Anyway, back to the subject in hand. Like you, I'm not convinced by the Fletcher plans for Sweet Street but I think the Supertram proposals don't have much to do with it. In my opinion, there's still too much underdeveloped land between the city centre and Ms Fletcher's carefully assembled site to make her plans fully feasible at the moment. But, I suppose, time will tell. And the fact that Gvernment Office and the Highways Agency are set to move to Lateral, just across Sweet Street, can only help.

In the meantime, another Tanqueray is called for.

[Rob]

I think Jan Fletcher means well and is full of the same dreams and visions for Leeds as the rest of us on this forum (now heading up the Leeds marketing team). I just suspect her project may be a little over ambitious as raising that kind of funding is so difficult. However I think she's a bit of a star local character and certainly has my best regards and wishes.

[MikeinLeeds]

The redevelopment of the Chandlers?
They had PP approved for flats upto 6 floors IIRC


No; it's the Warehouse Hill site, by the Aire bar

[Leeds No.1]

http://www.harrogate.gov.uk/pdf/DS_LDF_HarrogateWorkshop.pdf After reading this, I woner if John Lewis have plans to open more than 1 store within the Leeds City Region, as this hints a John Lewis in the brackets, as well as the John Lewis which will be built in Leeds. It will be interesting to see if anything gets proposed in Bradford or another city. Im sure I heard there were to be major changes with John Lewis in Sheffield, but I don't blame them, Leeds/Yorkshire/Humber is a massive hole in their coverage at the moment.

[aviator]

There was a brief item on the early morning news today about the Civic Trust's objections to the proposed demolition of the "bookends" at the bottom of Eastgate.

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/43/9143.jpg

Frustratingly, there don't seem to be any details on this. The fact that the Civic Trust is objecting (rightly so, in my opinion) is nothing new; their views on the matter have been in the public domain since Hammersons announced their plans for the area. The only thing I can think of is that there is yet another public consultation underway or that Hammersons have presented more detailed proposals to the City Council.

Looking through the Trust's old newsletters, I found this from June 2004. It forms part of their comments on the whole Harewood/Eastgate Quarter plan:

"The Trust's planning committee has had a presentation of the proposals and our comments can be seen in full on the web site......We are assured, though surprised, that Leeds can cope with another 1.25 million sq.ft of retail space (most to be supplied by this and the Trinity Quarter)......"

Interestingly, this scepticism on the demand for such large amounts of new retail space contrast with the Estates Gazette regional update published at the end of December. It reports on the unfulfilled requirements of retailers seeking to move to Leeds, or to move to larger premises, or to open a second store when they already have a presence in the city. According to EGi Retailers Requirements, the amount of space being sought in the city centre is around 740,000 sq ft; this presumably includes the 260,000 sq ft that John Lewis will be taking in the Eastgate development. But there are also apparently at two other department stores (as yet unnamed) looking to move into the city.

[Loiner]

I would have thought that looking at how tiny most branches of stores are in Leeds compared to Birmingham and Manchester that there was a HUGE demand for additional retail floorspace in the city.

[Leeds No.1]

I would agree, and suppose have to seeing as its fact, that most Leeds stores are smaller and need massive extension. Maybe it's not too hard for them to satisfy this in the short term by reorganising the store or if it's a prime position an extension upwards is not out of the question. Some stores such as Virgin Megastore and HMV are big enough though- I heard from some source they are the biggest outside London. But still, most stores are smaller. I am suprised that the Allders store is to be split up though, as this was one of the large retail spaces in Leeds. I don't see why this wouldn't take a John Lewis for example. Primark is large however, compared to other Primark's. Does anybody know if the Trinity Quarter will include and large units? This small area, I would think, for a long time to come will be prime space in Leeds with the Harewood Quarter or without as it has been the shopping core for a long time, and is also the most central area with best access to transport ect. So I think smaller shops would be more likely to want to move into stores off Briggate or Commercial Street rather than Harewood/Eastgate Qtr., and large stores will want to move into the Harewood Qtr. I don't think the Briggate Stores would relocate to the Harewood/Eastgate Qtr. whether they needed extensions or not coz its such a prime street.

[Rob]

I heard the report on the radio the this morning. The Civic Trust member put over a fairly reasonable case that the Eastgate book-end buildings should and could be preserved, along with one or two other buildings towards the Chinese Quarter but not asking for everything to remain, and they acknowledged that is is much better in the city centre rather than in an out of town development ... ah, it's on Look North as I type ... they used the Light as an example of how a similar sized existing building can be intigrated into a new development, with a glazed roof spanning over and internal flooring in between.

[jimbo]

I heard the report on the radio the this morning. The Civic Trust member put over a fairly reasonable case that the Eastgate book-end buildings should and could be preserved, along with one or two other buildings towards the Chinese Quarter but not asking for everything to remain, and they acknowledged that is is much better in the city centre rather than in an out of town development ... ah, it's on Look North as I type ... they used the Light as an example of how a similar sized existing building can be intigrated into a new development, with a glazed roof spanning over and internal flooring in between.

sounds logical to me, and congrats on the 1000 post!

[aviator]

I was snooping around on the Council'w website this morning and came acroos the minutes of the 8 December meeting of the City Centre Plans Panel. This was an interesting item:

"Pre Application Presentation – Eastgate & Harewood Quarter – Proposal for Retail and Mixed Use Scheme - A64M, Eastgate, St Peters Street, George Street and Vicar Lane
Further to minute 61 of the meeting held on 13th October 2005, the Panel received a presentation brought by the applicants on the progress of proposals for the redevelopment of Eastgate and the Harewood Quarter. Mr John Thorp, Civic Architect, introduced the scheme by reporting that the proposals had been presented to CABE and agreement had been reached that the Eastgate corridor should remain the first focus of the scheme.

Mr Toby Denham updated the Panel with a storyboard presentation showing the emerging intention for the various uses of the buildings and levels within the scheme. Mr Denham highlighted the difficulties within the scheme caused by the change in gradient from North to South which was the equivalent of four storeys. Links between the upper levels had now been included within the scheme to connect the areas intended as a cinema, car park and restaurant via a series of bridges. Additionally, more thought had been given to the inclusion of further north/south footpaths to create better links at low level, and the scheme also now incorporated “cuts” through the proposed development which would enable residents to cut through buildings to access amenities more easily than using the main public thoroughfares.

Plans for the Galleria now included consideration of materials for the roof of the structure and links through to the development. The Panel went onto consider the following matters arising from the presentation:
- perceived encroachment onto Eastgate roundabout through the inclusion of new build in front of Millgarth Police station
- concern regarding the inclusion of a footbridge over the Inner Ring Road
- Concerns regarding design of the proposed John Lewis store
- Dominance of the development to Eastgate and impact on views from across the City
- Suggested inclusion of small individual subsidised retail units within the development

The Panel noted it was intended that a full application would be made in March 2006.

RESOLVED – That the contents of the presentation be noted and due to the complexity of the scheme, a workshop be arranged for the morning of the next appropriate Panel meeting and a summary pack of information to be provided to Panel prior to that meeting by the Civic Architect, Mr Thorp."

[Smoggie_Si]

I've just come back from a few days in Leeds and took some pictures of the buildings that I've been going on about in the Harewood Quarter.

Firstly the rather unhappy looking building whose name escaped me.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pd7f060ccdf43d31a7da3b5749ef8dd62/f0abbb4a.jpg

and

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pd0ff9e0c1e5b48ea05f6c8aa1771339f/f0abb9c3.jpg

Secondly the Chinatown building

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pe8e47b06b2f85df598a0bac6dee1ca46/f0abba81.jpg

These babies MUST be retained!

[di Livio]

to connect the areas intended as a cinema, car park and restaurant via a series of bridges.


Could be a City Screen art cinema, as they've been trying to get a site in the city for a good few years now.
Great find btw.


I think i'm right in saying that the windows in this pic were once filled with Victorian stained glass. It is in a 'right state', but I'm optimistic about this project now that March 2006 has been mentioned for a full application.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pd0ff9e0c1e5b48ea05f6c8aa1771339f/f0abb9c3.jpg

[aviator]

Could be a City Screen art cinema, as they've been trying to get a site in the city for a good few years now.
Great find btw.


I think i'm right in saying that the windows in this pic were once filled with Victorian stained glass. It is in a 'right state', but I'm optimistic about this project now that March 2006 has been mentioned for a full application.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pd0ff9e0c1e5b48ea05f6c8aa1771339f/f0abb9c3.jpg

I thought this former chapel would have made a splendid restaurant or over the top fashion store but it also occurs to me it might be the right building to house the cinema. Anyway, I agree with Smoggie that it's a gem. I would love to see it restored and brought back into use.

Anyway, this is how the chapel used to look in the 1950s:

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/48/3848.jpg

[Smoggie_Si]

Could be a City Screen art cinema, as they've been trying to get a site in the city for a good few years now.
Great find btw.


I think i'm right in saying that the windows in this pic were once filled with Victorian stained glass. It is in a 'right state', but I'm optimistic about this project now that March 2006 has been mentioned for a full application.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pd0ff9e0c1e5b48ea05f6c8aa1771339f/f0abb9c3.jpg

That'd be superb if an art house cinema was part of the Harewood Quarter. It could then be truely classed as a mixed use development bringing a new cultural resource to Leeds.

I know that there's the Hyde Park, but I'm ashamed to admit I very rarely go there for fear of my car being broken into. An art house cinema in the city centre would excellent and the chapel building would seem ideal.

Looks like there was an interesting building to the left of the chapel on Aviator's picture, anyone got a pic of what it looked like?

[aviator]

Looks like there was an interesting building to the left of the chapel on Aviator's picture, anyone got a pic of what it looked like?

This is the only one I could find

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/36/5436.jpg

[aviator]

From the Civic Trust's website:

"Leeds Civic Trust has decided to alert the general public to its major concerns about the proposed retail and leisure development of what is known as the Eastgate and Harewood Quarter of Leeds City Centre.

Basic details of the scheme:
The scheme is to be a joint development between London-based property company Hammersons and Leeds-based Town Centre Securities, with the architects Farells as the masterplanners. The scheme is being progressed under a development agreement between the developers and Leeds City Council.

It is a mixed retail, leisure, office and residential scheme on a 20-acre site bounded by the Inner Ring Road, Vicar Lane, George Street (on the north side of Kirkgate Market) and St Peter's Street/Regent Street.

It would add one-third to the existing shopping space in Leeds City Centre, providing arcaded streets, a glazed three-storey galleria, a 220,000 sq ft John Lewis Store on the north side of Eastgate and possibly another 190,000 sq ft store between Eastgate and Kirkgate Market. There would be flats for 2500 residents and 3000 parking spaces.


Leeds Civic Trust Director, Dr Kevin Grady said:
'The Trust wishes to encourage this development and at the request of Leeds City Council and the developers Hammersons and Town Centre Securities it has engaged in discussion with them about the proposals for almost two years. But at present we are exasperated because to date our comments appear to have fallen on deaf ears. The Council and the developers seem determined to steamroller this scheme through with very little alteration to the original proposals.'

The Trust's criticisms of the scheme are:

1. The Quarry Hill end of Eastgate will be demolished. This includes the imposing and distinctive 'bookend' buildings designed by Sir Reginald Blomfield as part of his 1920s grand design for the Headrow and Eastgate. In addition the entire south side of Eastgate will be demolished, thereby sacrificing the integrity of the whole street. This seems totally inappropriate at a time when the other parts of Blomfield's grand design (The Light, the Lewis's/Alders building, and the former Odeon Cinema) are being splendidly renovated. Because the Council and developers have always side-stepped discussion of the future of these buildings, in June 2005 the Trust applied to English Heritage for the Eastgate buildings to be listed. Dr Grady said: 'Even if the Secretary of State decides not to list these buildings, we feel sure that they are such a distinctive feature of the city's architectural heritage that most people in Leeds would like them to be saved.'

2. This is a comprehensive redevelopment scheme of a type not seen in Leeds since the 1960s and '70s. All but one of the buildings between Eastgate, Regent Street, the Inner Ring Road and Bridge Street would be demolished, including Circle House, Bridge Street Church, the Lyons/China Town Building and the sheltered housing. Large amounts of open land, currently used as car parking, on the north and south sides of Eastgate are available, and yet the developers have not provided a satisfactory explanation for why they need to flatten an existing area of generally sound buildings which house active uses. The developers say their scheme will offer variety and diversity, and yet it will sweep away an area whose distinctive quality is its variety and diversity, most notably the nascent Leeds China Town.

3. This massive scheme offers almost no new open space for public use. It is too tight-grained. A common complaint about Leeds City Centre is that it lacks squares and greenery. One of the benefits of a development of this kind must be the provision of pleasant green public spaces where people can sit in the sun and relax. What is missing on the east side of the city is a counterpart to Park Square - a quieter, softer, greener and more extensive grassed area to which shoppers, office workers and residents can escape.

Currently, the developers are undertaking public consultation. However, the Trust is dubious about this process because in its experience its comments have produced no fundamental alteration to the development proposals.


Leeds Civic Trust Chairman, Peter Baker, said:
'Frankly, we have been tremendously disappointed by the dialogue we have had with the developers and the City Council on this important scheme. They seem totally immovable on virtually all elements of the proposals. The Council's development brief for the site actually uses the developers' scheme to illustrate what is appropriate for the site; this hardly suggests that the theoretically impartial Council is receptive to alternative ideas about how the scheme should be designed.'

'While the Trust welcomes the investment in Leeds which this scheme would bring, and the boost to the city's retail offer created by a John Lewis store, this should not come at the price of sweeping away some of the most important and distinctive features of its townscape. Sir Reginald Blomfield's fine design for the grand avenue of the Headrow and Eastgate has recently been celebrated by adapting it for excellent development such as The Light and the conversion of the former Odeon Cinema to the Primark Store. There is a large amount of empty land on the north and south sides of Eastgate and it is unacceptable that the imposing Eastgate 'bookend' buildings (including Hoagies Bar) should be demolished just because the developers feel the need to bend over backwards to accommodate John Lewis's precise location requirement for its store.'

Mr Baker continued:
'We had hoped that the unthinking comprehensive redevelopment schemes which did such damage to the fabric of British cities in the '60s and '70s were a thing of the past. Yet the current proposals, as well as demolishing substantial sections of Eastgate, would see the loss of Bridge Street Church, the Lyons Buildings (which is the heart of the nascent Leeds China Town), Circle House (designed by the architects of Leeds University's Parkinson Building, and some social housing.'

'We have been expressing our serious concerns to the developers and the City Council for almost two years and yet the essential detail of the development proposals have not changed. Consultation is pointless if the developers and the Local Authority are not prepared to listen.'

'A first-rate development on this scale should combine good modern design with the conservation of valued townscape and longstanding amenities and uses. What typifies the problem with this scheme is that it leaves standing one of the ugliest buildings in the city - Millgarth Police Station - while demolishing Blomfield's imposing Eastgate buildings next door.'

'We understand that some modifications to the scheme will be produced in the New Year. We hope that this will be the opportunity for the designers to produce some radically improved proposals.'"

Oh dear!

[Simon22]

I sometime think the Trust is too backward looking in it views but on this occasion they think are correct. You cannot regain our architectural heritage once it has been levelled.

I suspect that money is talking very loud here, certainly far louder than the need to preserve some of these buildings.

What next? Clearing the Town Hall for a 60 storey tower and shopping plaza!

[The Oil]

Hmmmm, a tricky one this. Personally I would hate to see the Eastgate bookends get demolished but I'm not too bothered about the Lyons building or the snooker centre/Chinatown building. I think in this is an example of old buildings not necessarily being particularly attractive, they don't move me when I look at them and I wouldn't miss them at all. I'm also not sure one or two buldings can be described as a "nascent Chinatown"?!?
I'm amazed though that the Millgarth station is not included in these plans, it's one of the ugliest buildings in the City. Annoyingly this kind of stand off can only delay any devolpment on this site. I didn't realise it was as large as 20 acres either....

[daveylad2]

From Google Earth.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/davidlufc/578da5ad.jpg

I totally agree with the civic trust on this one. There is no excuse for knocking most of the buildings in question down, to make way for a development that in 10 or 20 years time will probably look as crap as the Leeds Shopping Plaza looks now. Most of the older buildings have stood the test of time. There is no reason why they can't be integrated into this development.

[Stig282]

Since when has GoogleEarth been at that resolution for Leeds!?!

Great way of showing what we're talking about - cheers daveylad

[Skopie]

About a month I think, I'm pretty sure all of West Yorkshire is at that resolution now. It's very handy for checking out development sites, but annoying as the images are a few years old and many buidings in Leeds aren't even built yet.

[Simon22]

About a month I think, I'm pretty sure all of West Yorkshire is at that resolution now. It's very handy for checking out development sites, but annoying as the images are a few years old and many buidings in Leeds aren't even built yet.


Wakefield definitely is aswell. I am sure I saw my car parked outside my house when I checked where I lived!

If you haven't already check out the 3D virtual reality map of New York (with the skyscrapers added of course!)

[Leeds No.1]

All the buildings on Eastgate I would say are OK, not as good as the buildings on The Headrow, but also not ugly or the sort of building that should be demolished. However, it is clear that these buildings almost create a wall that seperates Eastgate from the car parks on both sides. Possibly nobody has taken these to develop because with these buildings, it cuts off these quarters. So considering that factor, I would say that I think I would agree that these buildings should be demolished. They aren't that bad but for the sake of the rest of the area it might be a good idea to make this sacrifice. I would hate for these buildings to stand in the way of a developmetn that would push Leeds up a league and regenerate a whole section of the City Centre. While these buildings could be renovated, it's not like these are the only historic buildings in Leeds. So I think that this will be a case where initially people wll object to the demolition, but in the end when it's all built, people will see that while there was a disadvantage, the improvement to the whole area far outweighs the fabric that was lost.

As for Millgarth Police Station, I'd say jsut demolish it, and it doesn't matter if it's replaced or not. It would actually be quite a good site for a tall building IMO- especially being at a gateway location, which in this case is not an overused term, because it is at the gate to the city centre from the North, and the City Bus Station and Eastgate (which I tend to consider The Headrow) , considered by many to be Leeds' primary street

[Smoggie_Si]

As you'll probably all guess from my previous rants, I'm completely with the Civic Trust on this one. I have with my own fair hand drawn a rather beautiful diagram of what should stay and go. My colour choice has made it look rather like a chainsaw massacre and my hand wasn't the steadiest when drawing lines, but ho hum!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid199/pfdf74c500ccd396f2feaa1cc3c8dc793/f0a281a7.jpg

I think you'll all agree that I'm wasted as an IT consultant with artistic skills like that ;)

The blue outlines are buildings that must be retained IMO with the red sections being empty or buildings that can encounter a wrecking ball. I've left the section at the east of the site as I can't offhand thing what buildings are between Chinatown and the Job centre. I remember there's a nice little church and seem to recall the rest being pretty poor.

Anyway, point being that it's a bloody huge site. I don't buy that Eastgate is a barrier between the sites. It would be easy enough to open up sections of the ground floor of the north side to provide access or use it as the facade for a new build building beyond it. With the exception of the bookend, I don't really care what happens to the southern row.

I can't see why this wouldn't work to the developers advantage too. Historic character conversions can often command a premium rent and a small number of existing buildings sympathetically incorporated into the fabric of a new scheme will add character to the scheme and give it a more established feel.

Agree too about the lack of public space, it'd seem to be a great opportunity for another public square.

I feel that the developers are railroading the council to get approval, whatever the architectural cost, for a scheme that I don't really feel is needed anything like as badly as the Trinity Quarter. I think this as Harewood Quarter is on the outskirts of the existing city centre whereas Trinity Quarter is slap bang in the centre and an embarrasment to the whole area surrounding it.

It feels some great buildings are to be lost for a scheme that could end up as a white elephant for all we know. As someone posted a while ago, have we not learnt lessons from 60s and 70s city planning disasters?

The developers feel that they have LCC over a barrel and can force anything through. LCC MUST stand up to them

[di Livio]

Needless to say, this is a clusterf*ck of biblical proportions.

Whjat on earth the council are thinking is totally beyond me. Demolish Eastgate? The whole damn lot!? and to add insult to injury, they're going to leave Millgarth Police Station untouched!!! The whole situation stinks to high heaven. So much so, in fact, that I can't see them getting away with it. (it's a civic trust press release, so obviously it'll be in the YEP this week)
The idea that the Eastgate buildings present a barrier between the developments is ludicrous. If I can d*mn well walk around them, so can everyone else!

http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/eastgate4.jpg

http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/eastgate5.jpg

Anyway, must calm down a bit.
The essential idea behind the scheme appears to be an impressive one...

It would add one-third to the existing shopping space in Leeds City Centre, providing arcaded streets, a glazed three-storey galleria, a 220,000 sq ft John Lewis Store on the north side of Eastgate and possibly another 190,000 sq ft store between Eastgate and Kirkgate Market.

...but at what cost?

[di Livio]

... and i agree with everything in post #69

The bus station at Wellington Street has utterly vanished, as has the architecturally much more interesting Central Station which stood opposite, part of the site now taken up with something big and banal to do with the Post Office. While much of Vicar Lane bus station has disappeared, too, and been converted into a car park, the west range of buildings still stands, always intriguing to me as a child because built in a peculiarly edible-looking brick, so that mindful of Hansel and Gretel, I fancied it might be made out of ginger biscuits.

There's plenty more where this came from but readers may already be incensed by its inconsequence.

Alan Bennett
London NW1

http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/img_hr/HeadrowEnd.jpg

[The Oil]

Di Livio,
Where does that quote from Alan Bennet come from? Is he on about the National Express Coach Station as was? Wasn't that just a hole in the wall?

It seems this issue is really going to split the people on here. I think I might go and have a look at the area again. It's worth remembering that we have only seen a really rough outline plan so far, we can't make any real judgements until we see what they have in mind in detail.

I don't remember the Civic Trust kicking off about the Eastgate bookends when Supertram was still alive. The South Bookend was served a compulsory purchase order and would have been demolished. I wonder why this wasn't seen as a problem then and I wonder if the developers will mention this in response?

[Leeds No.1]

With the yellow shading along Eastgate, does that suggest it will be pedestrianised and renamed New Headrow? (As the label says...) There is no roundabout at Eastgate Roundabout (or Eastgate Circus as I hear some people say). If that is the case, then I do't agree I think The Headrow is one of the few streets that is better not to be pedestrianised. But then again maybe it's not like that at all.

[Smoggie_Si]

With the yellow shading along Eastgate, does that suggest it will be pedestrianised and renamed New Headrow? (As the label says...) There is no roundabout at Eastgate Roundabout (or Eastgate Circus as I hear some people say). If that is the case, then I do't agree I think The Headrow is one of the few streets that is better not to be pedestrianised. But then again maybe it's not like that at all.

Yep, Eastgate is to be pedestrianised and the roundabout will bite the dust. Eastgate and Headrow are currently only open to buses and taxis anyway.

[Leeds No.1]

Well isn't it quite a vital and major bus route? The roundabout at the end of Eastgate is quite nice though, with the fountain so I hope they don't get rid of that. I don't think this should be pedestrianised, soemtimes traffic makes a place excitign even if it is polluting. I realise it is clearly possible, but wouldn't it literally double the amount of traffic on Boar Lane which is the only other road that links the eastern city centre with the Transport Box... I do see why they are doing it though... but still. I wouldn't mind seeing Vicar Lane pedestrianised though, it would probably have a similar effect to what Briggate had. The Public Transprot Box would need to be extended out to encircle the bus station though, so probably would not happen.

I do think it would be better to keep the 'New Headrow' open to traffic but by no means use it as an excuse not to improve it. It could be reduced to one lane each way, more trees, benches- near pedestrianisation but not quite.

Anyway, I think it is quite likely the council will allow the demoliton of the various Eastgate buildings because I doubt they will want anything to block this scheme progressing...

[Even Flow]

If I were a betting man, I'd say the council will steamroller this one through, as I'm guessing they may be getting concerned about the lack of retail space available in the city centre, especially with the Trinity Quarter stuttering from one problem to another. Time will tell.

[di Livio]

Di Livio,
Where does that quote from Alan Bennet come from? Is he on about the National Express Coach Station as was? Wasn't that just a hole in the wall?

Sorry, should quote sources - London Review of Books (November, 2000)

Actually, i'm not sure he means Eastgate at all. I think he's referring to the old '30s bus station on Vicar lane. :runaway:


http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/28/2005630_9621828.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/79/2005630_40308779.jpg

[Leedsfella]

The roundabout structure is still there isnt it? next to the top right of the number 6 building...?

[Smoggie_Si]

Anyway, I think it is quite likely the council will allow the demoliton of the various Eastgate buildings because I doubt they will want anything to block this scheme progressing...


If I were a betting man, I'd say the council will steamroller this one through, as I'm guessing they may be getting concerned about the lack of retail space available in the city centre, especially with the Trinity Quarter stuttering from one problem to another. Time will tell.

Exactly and that's the concern. To lose these buildings would be short termism in the extreme. I'm not opposed to the Harewood Quarter, in fact quite the opposite I would love to see it go ahead, but I fail to see why these few buildings need to be sacrificed. The plot is so big that there's plenty of room for the refurbished old buildings and new builds to live side by side and
give Leeds a characterful new development rather than something really bland that ends up being an eyesore in 10 years and loses Leeds some really interesting and aesthetically pleasing buildings all in the name of plugging a short term need for more retail space.

Surely we all want something for Leeds to be really proud of and not a new St Johns centre?

[Smoggie_Si]

The roundabout structure is still there isnt it? next to the top right of the number 6 building...?

Yep the building in the middle of the roundabout is staying with the road being rerouted slightly.

[The Oil]

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/82/2002813_21216982.jpg

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/07/2002813_96867007.jpg

Here's some other views of the Lady Lane building the developers propose to demolish...

[LeedsLad]

It's my understanding that Milgarth police station was originally built as part of a previous masterplan for a shopping centre on the carpark behind, which never went ahead. And infact the original plan was that pedestrian entry to the police station would be through the shopping centre on the 3rd floor! They even built a doorway and a reception on the 3rd floor. When it was opened they had to build a new ground floor entry as the shopping centre never went ahead....

On another point, will this new development stretch so far as to make it a next-door neighbour to Leeds market? It would be good to see them linked in someway (perhaps the proposed new development at the market) so that shoppers could flow easily between the 2?

[Eastgatebuilding]

I am associated with a company that owns a substantially large building situated in the Eastgate development (not one of the developers!). I must say it's very interesting to read the views and opinions of those that post hear, especially those that are wishing a more sensitive approach to the scheme.

The reason I am posting is because there seems to be some confusion as to the reason why the developers are wanting to demolish virtually the entire area, and what is not being said in public although i'm sure a number of you have already figured it out. Despite the PR campaign that this is a mixed use development, in reality it's almost entirely retail driven. With that in mind it really all comes down to the CPO process.
One CPO is issued for the whole site (not for individual buildings) and elements can simply be left out that are to be retained (eg Listed buildings) because buildings that are not going to be knocked down have a good arguement not to be CPO'd. Therefore the more property that is to be demolished the more property will be subject to the CPO (or aquired via the threat of a CPO to Landowners through intimidation). My understanding directy from the LCC is that the freeholds will be transferred from them to the developers. Hence this is an opportunity for the developers to seize control of a massive third of the retail area of Leeds at a relatively cheap price. Additionally the LCC will be selling the land they own in the area at development value, unlike everyone else will be forced to. Lets remember that Town Centre Securities (the other developer is Hammersons) is a investment company not a development company, and already owns a substantial amount of property in Leeds (including the Merrion Centre).

The developers already have plans to carve up the site between them (north of Eastgate for Hammersons, south for TCS).
In the long term this is not a good thing for Leeds retail because it will create a monopoly of land in the city centre where there will be no competition between Landlords for retail tenants. The LCC are fully aware of this, yet various forces within will push forward with this scheme.

When it comes to which buildings will be retained, i'm afraid that the developers identified the buildings they wanted to keep a long time ago, and even the LCC's own SPD development doc included the words "The EXISTING listed buildings should be retained" (para 2.6) where existing actually means buildings listed prior to the document being adopted and does not cover buildings currently under consideration (eg the Eastgate bookends). That being said it will be difficult for them to knock down buildings that English Heritage recommend should be listed and retained. I can tell you that the developers already have a building lined up to be retained that is not listed as a token historic building to show how sensitive they are to the historic fabric (IMO), which interestingly does not effect their comprehensive redevelopment plans. No aspect of formal consultation has thus far altered their plans of which buildings are retained.

Whilst I acknowledge there are an huge number of other factors for demolition (access and layout etc) and while I do believe that redeveloping the area is a good thing, make no mistake this is mostly about two companies collecting a third of the city centre with a CPO process (which the developers are paying for entirely).

Just ask yourself this, as some have already said - why aren't they knocking down Millgarth Police station, the worst building there is? Are the LCC really up to a CPO/relocation fight with the police ?

Interestingly I think, in the end, this will all come down to an objectional hearing at the CPO and Planning Application stage (which will run in parallel to each other) where a decision will ultimately be made by an impartial Planning Inspector from the Planning Inspectorate. Even Listed buildings may not be protected as the LCC could have a go at getting Listed Building Demolition Consent confirmed from central government on the basis that the development will be in the public interest (creating new jobs etc).

[Leeds No.1]

That Lady Lane building planned to be demolished is a building I would much rather see retained than the Eastgate Buildings. I could see an excellent conversion of this building, and could be incorporated in the same way that the train building thing has been incorporated into the Wellington Place scheme.

[Rob]

Eastgatebuilding, thanks for the explanation.

I suspect LCC are thinking what I'm thinking ... there have been so many failed and abortive projects in this city, they want to make the way as smooth as possible for this large 'city changing' proposal. I recall they (LCC) got involved in the Trinty Qtr saga bending over backwards with trying to help out with CPOs of all the outstanding properties involved, and that one is still nowhere near starting yet, despite Leeds having the longest list of retailers in the UK waiting for a unit !

I don't personally expect the Civic Trust or other opposing parties will have much to worry about for many years yet, going by the current retail track record.

[Typhoo25]

As much as I would like to see some of the buildings retained, I would have to take the view of LCC and say that this is a 'nice to have' and is not nice enough to retain the buildings with the risk of everything else being undeveloped. The quicker this area is developed, the better. I would hope that public wranglings do not result in this being constantly put back as this is critical to the development of Leeds.

[SmartCity]

Good point Typhoo. Either way lets hope this gets off the ground soon.

[The Oil]

As much as I would like to see some of the buildings retained, I would have to take the view of LCC and say that this is a 'nice to have' and is not nice enough to retain the buildings with the risk of everything else being undeveloped. The quicker this area is developed, the better. I would hope that public wranglings do not result in this being constantly put back as this is critical to the development of Leeds.

And there lies the dilemma i suppose. There's no doubt that this scheme is critical to the future of Leeds but at what cost? It's difficult to be objective on here because we've all got an interest in the history and architecture of Leeds as well as all the current and future developments but we have to be realistic. I'd guess most people in Leeds wouldn't care if the Lady Lane buildings and the Chinatown buildings et al were trashed. I suspect reaction to the Eastgate blocks being demolished would be a bit different. They're much more visible and more impressive and feel like part of the fabric of Leeds.

Bottom line is what's best for the City? Giving the developers carte blanche to do what thay want or fighting for buildings that are largely anonymous to the public? Difficult....

[Simon22]

I'd rather keep the Lady Lane and Chinatown buildings! The Eastgate blocks are very bland IMO.

I can remember a visitor from London being completely underwhelmed by them!

[di Livio]

I can remember a visitor from London being completely underwhelmed by them!

Then again, when my sister came back over the xmas period, she commented on how impressive the whole Headrow scheme looked, including Eastgate.

I agree that most people in Leeds probably won't care about these buildings being demolished. I also agree that the scheme is critical to the development and success of the city over the next few years. However, i can't help feeling that if Farrell's had listened to the civic trust , and been a bit more respectful to the historic fabric of the city centre in the first place we wouldn't be in this mess, which looks like it may turn into a protracted and internecine dispute similar to the one surrounding the Trinity Quarter.


http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/24/2002108_17817324.jpg


http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/56/2002126_93957156.jpg


http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/59/2002812_76905459.jpg

[Leedsfella]

I personally think they should keep the 'bookend' buildings, they travel all the way down the Headrow from The Light, im sure a developer could somehow include them in proposals for this development.

As for the Chinatown buildings, well I was under the impression the LCC were going to try make that a proper Chinatown, I guess not, which is somewhat dissapointing because Leeds needs a big International qtr.

The car park next to the market, well development cant start soon enough, its a tip, but to think that they will be building a state of the art shopping centre on it, and leaving probably the ugliest police station in the county right next to it... well it takes the piss. Police relocation is a must if this little area isnt going to have a ''WTF'' impression on people.

[aviator]

As much as I would like to see some of the buildings retained, I would have to take the view of LCC and say that this is a 'nice to have' and is not nice enough to retain the buildings with the risk of everything else being undeveloped. The quicker this area is developed, the better. I would hope that public wranglings do not result in this being constantly put back as this is critical to the development of Leeds.

I'm afraid I can't agree with point of view, though I suspect I'm in a minority. We don't know what discussions have taken place in the background but I think there are some fundamental issues here. One is about sustainability - you can't say you're committed to supporting sustainable development ( as the City Council does) and then agree to the demolition of perfectly serviceable buildings.

Another is about respect for context and history; buildings don't have to be Grade 1 listed to be of merit and worthy of retention. And we have some excellent examples of adaptation and successful blending of old and new with the Light, the Victoria Quarter and the Carriageworks.

Another is about balancing the desire to see developments take place with accommodating the demands of developers. The Civic Trust has already made the point that, demolish or not, this proposal includes next to no public green space. That's called greed and the desire to maximise profit at all costs.

Do you really think developers with such a mentality are going to concern themselves with the quality of the design and build of what they're proposing? Just because Terry Farrell is producing the masterplan doesn't mean that he (or architects of comparable quality) will design the buildings that sit within the masterplan. As for this development being critical, I don't agree. There is a huge demand for retail space in the city and this isn't the only scheme on the go. The Trinity Quarter development, for example, has managed to clear the obstacles that were impeding it and there is the retail development planned for the Temple Mill. In addition, this was originally two separate proposals. I suspect that, if this one hit the buffers, TCS would go ahead with something like their original plan for the Harewood Quarter and let Hammersons fend for themselves. And if Hammersons walked, I believe other developers would jump in to fill the gap.

It's also worth remembering that it's 10 years since John Lewis first tried to establish themselves in Leeds. They were knocked back when the Leeds University plan to build a retail park on playing fields at Weetwood came to nothing. But here they are still, looking for premises in the city.

I really hope that the City Council has the courage to maintain the hard line with these developers and not let them drop into the heart of Leeds some mega shopping centre whose only virtue is the number of shops it offers.

[Leeds No.1]

Well, maybe the fact that there is hardly any green space in the development is proof that demand is so high. It's not like its impossible to put roof gardens on anyway. There are some buildings which I don't mind but I'd hate them to block the development. The Eastgate Buildings though- well they're pretty bland, they're OK but nothing I'd get excited about. I wouldn't mind if this development is very built up; Quarry Hill, right next door has some public spaces planned and it would be easier to incorporate them into that scheme. I must say though, it would be nice to have a large green space right in the heart of the city.

[aviator]

Well, maybe the fact that there is hardly any green space in the development is proof that demand is so high. It's not like its impossible to put roof gardens on anyway. There are some buildings which I don't mind but I'd hate them to block the development. The Eastgate Buildings though- well they're pretty bland, they're OK but nothing I'd get excited about. I wouldn't mind if this development is very built up; Quarry Hill, right next door has some public spaces planned and it would be easier to incorporate them into that scheme. I must say though, it would be nice to have a large green space right in the heart of the city.

What on earth are you talking about? Roof gardens are fine but, by their nature will only be accessible to residents or tenatnts of the building where they're located. So, what about the thousands of people milling about at ground level? A development of that size and scale without a decent amount of quality open space will be oppressive beyond measure.

Oh and, by the way, the Quarry Hill proposals have themselves been under severe criticism for the lack of public space they plan!

[Leeds No.1]

Yeah I kno. Roof Gardens- well why couldn't they be open to the public- if people can get up to the roof levels of car parks why not gardens. People don't think it could be done coz its not the common thing that is done, people don't think radically enough

[daveylad2]

I hope this building is a keeper.

http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/img_hr/Headrowbank.jpg
Actually apart from the vicar lane frontage the rest of this building along the Eastgate side is devoid of much detail.

I hope TCS/Hammersons can at least make a compromise and include this and
the 'bookends' into the scheme. I can live without the Lyons building and most of the others. If they can't reach a compromise and the whole lot has to go, then I'd rather not have the development, fuck em. I don't think it will be Leeds's loss in the long run. Losing historic buildings will be a much bigger loss, especially in about 10 years when the development loses it's gloss and it starts to look like complete tat.
I think we have lost too much over the years to let much more of the city's historic fabric meet with a wrecking ball.
I'm sure there must have been a similar situation 1978? when the Bond Street Centre (Leeds Shopping Plaza) replaced a massive chunk of the city. At the time it must have seemed like a great idea for a shiny and new modern mall to replace grotty old buildings. What are peoples opinions of those so called grotty and old buildings now we have seen similar buildings on Boar lane cleaned up?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/davidlufc/2002108_17103213.jpg

[SmartCity]

I just hope the new stuff is going to be of high quality.

[di Livio]

Do you really think developers with such a mentality are going to concern themselves with the quality of the design and build of what they're proposing? Just because Terry Farrell is producing the masterplan doesn't mean that he (or architects of comparable quality) will design the buildings that sit within the masterplan.

True, we've had three masterplans for the scheme so far, but we still don't have any idea what the development will look like from ground-level.

Leslie Stephen are the other architects involved with the scheme.

[di Livio]

Leslie Stephen are the other architects involved with the scheme.

Leslie Stephen, Virginia Woolf's Dad? That can't be right.
It could be Leslie Joseph... but that's another can of worms altogether.

[Even Flow]

So, here we are in March, supposedly time of the planning appication. Does anyone think we will actually hear any news about this, or are the civic trusts objections actually being taken into account by the developer, causing further delays?

[jimbo]

So, here we are in March, supposedly time of the planning appication. Does anyone think we will actually hear any news about this, or are the civic trusts objections actually being taken into account by the developer, causing further delays?

wasn't it going to be a planning application submitted by Easter? That was my understanding, but the ongoing debates re: the bookends might have kiboshed that. At least New York House and the Grand Theatre is giving us a bit of action in the Northern Quarter. I still think retention of the bookends (or part of them) in a similar format to the old Leeds Perm offices used in the Light would be the best course of action providing new build, but with a nod to the works of Blomfield in the 1930s.

[SmartCity]

There was something in the YP or YEP last week stating that progress was being made and that an application would be submitted in the spring.

[The Oil]

There is an exhibition lasting for a week opening on Saturday in The Victoria Quarter that will have "detailed information, a model of the plan and members of the development team that will explain proposals".

There is also a mock up picture which is pretty bad quality but interestingly includes the Eastgate bookends. John Lewis is absolutely enormous. Developers hope to be on site in 2008 with a 2011 completion date.

Source - YEP tonight, not available on the net yet.

[Even Flow]

This is good news, and I think I'll be down at some point next week to have a good look (and possibly ask some probing questions!). However, does no-one else think a 3 year build program is incredibly ambitious? I would have thought it would have been a phased development, starting as soon as possible with completion aimed for 2011. Maybe the demolition is scheduled before 2008?

[di Livio]

There is an exhibition lasting for a week opening on Saturday in The Victoria Quarter that will have "detailed information, a model of the plan and members of the development team that will explain proposals".

There is also a mock up picture which is pretty bad quality but interestingly includes the Eastgate bookends. John Lewis is absolutely enormous. Developers hope to be on site in 2008 with a 2011 completion date.

Source - YEP tonight, not available on the net yet.

Thanks for the tip-off.

Methinks the resurrection of the bookends is probably yet another YEP factual error.

[Fred2]

Thanks for the tip-off.

Methinks the resurrection of the bookends is probably yet another YEP factual error.


I would like to know what is so architecturally and aesthetically special about these bookends ?

[Leeds No.1]

It is a phased development because John Lewis say they aim to open Autumn 2010. So if it all finishes in 2011 that means it must be phased... There isn't all that much demolition to take place though; about 70% (random guess) is just car park...

[The Oil]

Full Article - Source YEP

Public can shape the £500m things to come
By DAVID MARSH
Municipal Reporter
PEOPLE are to be given a chance to help shape a £500m development that will change the face of a key part of Leeds city centre.
Developers will on Saturday unveil their latest proposals for a huge shopping, housing and leisure scheme to be built on over 20 acres of land either side of Eastgate and east of the Victoria Quarter.
The development is expected to create about 8,000 jobs and includes over 100 shops, 600 apartments, leisure and entertainment facilities, public squares, pedestrianised streets and 2,500 car parking spaces.
A £40m John Lewis department store will employ about 900 people.
The Leeds Partnership – a joint venture between developers Hammerson and Leeds-based Town Centre Securities – intends to submit an outline planning application within the next two months.
And on Saturday a week-long exhibition opens in the Victoria Quarter at which people will be able to have their say on the scheme.
Along with detailed information on the plan, a model has been constructed to give people an impression of the development. Members of the development team will explain proposals and answer queries.
Reputation
People can give their views via a questionnaire and everyone who submits a completed form will be entered into a draw to win one of five iPod Nanos.
Edward Ziff, Town Centre Securities' chief executive, said: "Leeds has a well-deserved reputation as a unique and lively city with a distinct character.
"We feel strongly that our proposals to redevelop the Eastgate and Harewood Quarter will build on that reputation. This is a hugely significant scheme and will make Leeds stand out as a major city not only within the UK but also in Europe.
"We look forward to hearing what the public thinks."
Jean Dent, the council's development director, said: "These are exciting times for Leeds. The proposals for Eastgate and Harewood Quarter are of major importance, representing a key part of the council's overall strategy."
If outline planning approval is given, the developers hope to be on site in 2008 with the scheme scheduled for completion in 2011.
Exhibition opening times are: Saturday 11am – 5.00pm; Sunday noon – 4.00pm; Monday 11am – 4.00pm; Thursday noon – 7.00pm; Friday 11am – 4.00pm; Saturday April 8 11am – 5.00pm.
david.marsh@ypn.co.uk

[LeedsLad]

The bookends are included in a photo/graphic in the YEP so I think they must now be part of the design?... Also there was a blue booklet inside the YEP with a photo of the bookends as they are now. Theres a website www.eastgateleeds.co.uk underconstruction.
Interestingly the photo in the YEP looks different to the sketch on the front of the blue booklet which looks different to the sketch inside the blue booklet... :S
Also complete lack of any highrise, except the tower underconstruction at the moment on the old ABC cinema site. I would have thought there would be scope for a 20+ tower in the NE corner of the development next to the Inner Ring Road...

[LeedsLad]

I would like to know what is so architecturally and aesthetically special about these bookends ?

I think it's because they are twinned (reasonably rare) and were a historic part of the original 'Grand Plan' for the Headrow. I'd like them to be kept simply so that a whole part of Leeds doesn't have a '2006 look'. Think Merrion Centre, which was a mass rebuild of a whole area - the entire thing looks dated now. I think places which mix old and new (like the Light) are much less succeptable to ageing in this way...

[Fred2]

and were a historic part of the original 'Grand Plan' for the Headrow.


Not so. They were built post war and have little in common with Blomfield's early 1930's design.

[di Livio]

Not so. They were built post war and have little in common with Blomfield's early 1930's design.

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/80/2002830_59754580.jpg

Yes, they were an afterthought, and probably not part of Blomfield's original masterplan, however the bookends have at least some character and are special to me because for many years they were my gateway to the city centre, and, er, clutching at straws, I haven't seen anything like them anywhere else.
Yes,they're of dubious quality and eccentric design, but i'd much rather have them integrated into the Eastagte Quarter as a piece of Leeds' history, rather than, as LeedsLad says, to have them flattened, thereby repeating the mistakes of comprehensive redevelopments such as the St John Centre, Merrion Centre, Schofields building, etc.
Check out the view of the whole area from the Playhouse cafe/bar. it doesn't have the quality or grandeur of Victoria Square ir the Victoria Quarter, but it's unmistakeably Leeds and highly distinctive, and therefore worth saving imho.

This is an encouraging comment...

The Eastgate and Harewood Quarter has a rich heritage which the Leeds Partnership wish to preserve. The architectural design of the new buildings and particularly the glazed galleria seek to complement the historic buildings which characterise the area while also forging a new identity.

I'm not against this development, in actual fact I find it positively pant-wetting, however, I'd like to see a sensitive redevelopment, not one which disregards the historical fabric.

[Leeds No.1]

Wasn't there a 20 storey highrise planned in the Harewood Quarter part of the scheme? I must say though, whatever happens I wouldn't mind not having one at all, and I'd hate for the lack of a tower to get in the way of this development.

[Even Flow]

Yes, in the initial sketch models for the scheme there was a tower of some sorts. However, it was always stated that the plans were open to change.

[LeedsLad]

In the YEP last night the only tall tower appears to be the one already currently under construction on the old ABC ('New York House'?)

[Leeds No.1]

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./ That website has now been constructed- rather speedy!

Oooh I like the idea of 'the magnificence mile'! How exciting heh; can see they're aiming high here!

[Leeds No.1]

And would ya look at that- after the debateable issue over city centre cinema's, it appears this development will include a 70,000sq. ft multiplex :)

"Eastgate itself will be revitalised. It will be lined with shops and bars, and the entrance halls for the new flats above them, facing a newly landscaped street. Traffic in this part of Eastgate will be limited to buses, taxis and bicycles. The ‘bookends’ at the east end of Eastgate, facing Quarry Hill, will be rebuilt further west, facing a new landscaped public square."

I also notice they use 'will' so seem to be quite determined!

[Even Flow]

"As part of our scheme, Eastgate will be transformed into a green pedestrian friendly street that allows for public transport and bicycles.

To make the street more pedestrian friendly, crossings will be improved and priority given to people on foot instead of cars."

So Eastgate is not to be pedestrianised then. Interesting, seen as how the eye level sections show people walking in what will essentially still be a road.
Still, lots of good stuff on the website.

[Leeds No.1]

It would be quite hard to pedestrianise it fully- it's the main route across the city centre- where else would buses go without going well out of their way?

[Even Flow]

Well, considering the developers carte blanche approach to the area, I'm sure there were other possibilities with regards to rerouting traffic through the area. Still, I'd like to detailed proposals before I criticise or praise elements of the scheme.

[di Livio]

I need more time to digest these proposals but at first glance most of the ideas for the masterplan are top draw. Eg. getting a mix of architects to design the various buildings on Ebenezer Street to create a Briggate-esque feel, thereby avoiding the monolithic insularity of schemes like the Bullring. Also good to see that the integrity of the Blomfield masterplan has been respected. I've got high hopes for this development. It should strectch the city core and make Leeds feel more cohesive and city-like.

However, it does appear that the old Labour Exchange will bite the dust in favour of the new John Lewis store. which is a shame as I've always regarded it as a contiunation of the Headrow scheme, down to Regent Street.

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/11/2002815_49998111.jpg

Harewood Street/ Ebenezer Street junction just before the First War. ( a certain irony in the name Ebenezer Street in a street now dedicated to spenthrift consumption)

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/43/2002318_90678043.jpg

[di Livio]

An Ian Simpson Tower on the Millgarth site would be a welcome addition to the scheme. :yes:


http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/aDayOut.png



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/illEbenezerSt.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/illHeadrow.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/illGeorgeSt.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/illLadyLane.jpg
(surely it's not the decrepit Chinatown building lurking in the background?!)



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/illResiQuarter.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/illEdwardSt.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/planOfLeeds.jpg



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/urbanMasterplan.png



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk./images/richAndVaried.jpg

[jimbo]

Amen to that - excellent site, lots of information, as di Livio says respect to Blomfield.

Shame the images are so small, peering at my laptop screen trying to make head and tail of it.

Shall have good old nosy over the next hr or so and report back with observations. Huzzah!

Sadly not coming home anytime soon - who's going along to the exhibition with cameras and notepads at the ready? Any feedback/photos from that would be most welcome - am going to try and get my parents to pay a visit for me.

[LeedsLad]

Just been down, knowledgeable friendly staff. Few people compaining about certain aspects which is understandable for such a big scheme. You can give your feedback on the website - someone should direct them to this page...
Very impressive model of all of Leeds City Centre...
Appears they're going to incororate Templar House and the Bookends etc. Looks like they're getting rid of the 'Chinatown' building which is a shame...
After initially proposing getting rid of the bookends they're now making them a bit of focal point of the whole thing...

[mike68]

Info learned today-
the bookends are being knocked down and rebuilt slightly further up Eastgate! and two new bookends built closer to the old filling station roundabout.

The old ABC cinema site is only being cleared, no building work is planned yet!
The developers of the Harewood Quarter are trying to aquire the land to include in their plans.

All looks very good though, well thought out and a good mix of new and old buildings.

[LeedsLad]

I thought they were being rebuilt further away, and 2 new bookends in their place, on an angle so as not to block views of original bookends. The 2 new bookends would form the edge to a public square. (Although intial sketches of the new bookends are ghastly).
I think they have been clever by locating the John Lewis store in the NE corner (the furthest corner from the rest of the city centre) because people will have to walk past all the other new shops to get there...
I'm still hoping they introduce a skyscraper in the NE corner...

[Stig282]

TCS & Hammerson are about to begin negotiatins with residents of the apartments at 28 & 29 Eastgate ahead of the submission of planning apps in 4 weeks time.
Apparently they will have to pay market value + 10% to the residents.


I'm suprised they are planning to pull down the bookends and rebuild them further west - are we sure this isn't just a ruse to get them down and then they change the plans and disregard them altogether? Or am I being too cynical?

A fantastic plan for urban regeneration! Has any city seen anything on this scale in recent years? did Manchester and Deansgate come close to redevelopment of this scale? (genuine question I'm not baiting!)

[Rob]

Was it one of you guys that I chatted with about Milgarth Police Station remaining, saying it should be pulled down or at least re-clad to match the scheme ?

[mike68]

Was it one of you guys that I chatted with about Milgarth Police Station remaining, saying it should be pulled down or at least re-clad to match the scheme ?

I think it might have been me! Was it around 12 o'clock?

[di Livio]

are we sure this isn't just a ruse to get them down and then they change the plans and disregard them altogether? Or am I being too cynical?

Time will tell. There is a danger the scheme could go belly up with the bookends freshly demolished and no shopping complex to show for it (worst case scenario). I mean, do they honestly plan to demolish the whole of the Western side and re-build it? What stays, what goes?

Other than that, it's an acceptable compromise, although it has to be said, not one I'm totally happy with (am i ever totally happy with anything?!)

As for the Chinatown warehouse, it doesn't look like it could have been realtsitically incorporated into the new development, and from a personal perspective, I'd rather efface awkward adolescent memories of time spent in 'Supa Snooker'.

[nevilstreetkid]

Hi guys i am new to this site but hope to get to know you all soon.I love all things LEEDS especially all the building old and new.looking foward to visiting the eastgate exhibition this week.someone told me last night that they are extending whiterose soon has any one heard any thing about it ?

[SmartCity]

Hi guys i am new to this site but hope to get to know you all soon.I love all things LEEDS especially all the building old and new.looking foward to visiting the eastgate exhibition this week.someone told me last night that they are extending whiterose soon has any one heard any thing about it ?

Welcome nevilstreetkid!

Someone on here mentioned it a while back, i'm not sure if it's true though. I know a while back they did apply for an extention but the council turned it down that time.

[LeedsLad]

They recently downsized Sainsbury to squeeze a few extra shops in - maybe they might try something similar elsewhere... Surely the parking will need to be expanded first as it's a nightmare... Always thought there was scope for a rail station there myself since the line goes right past.

[Skychaser 2005]

White Rose bought adjacent land around the centre some years ago to look at expansion. However I understand that Leeds City Council put a halt on major expansion for a period of years so as not to affect Leeds City Centre. I think it was 10 years, so I would think the time is close to new expansion plans being looked at. Can't remember when the centre opened, but I bet it is coming up to 10 years soon?

[Leeds No.1]

They are extending it I saw it in the planning applications either last month of the month before. Cant remember if there was a decision or not. Primark is also opening there for later this year.

[LeedsLad]

Anyone care to dig it up?
A roof for Briggate could help Leeds City Centre compete on those rainy days...

[Leeds No.1]

Can't say I support that. I don't think it would be bad or anything, and I don't think the design for the roof is bad but I love to go shopping in the sun in summer and really have Briggate as an outdoor location. But a similar roof I wouldnt oppose to on another street. And it doesn't rain much in Leeds as it is compared to its main retail competitors...

[di Livio]

Because of its covered streets and shopping centres, Leeds is better equipped than most to deal with the rain. There would be little point in covering Briggate, given that the Templar Arcade will do the same job (it looks as if it's twice the length of Queen Victoria Street, and could turn out like this...)

http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~shmat/photo/toronto/slides/04bceplace.jpg

[Rob]

Hi Nevillestreetkid, (my favourate route into central Leeds of course). The Eastgate exhibition is good, worth seeing and chatting to the representatives there, also worth filling the comments form in carefully, to make your views known if you would wish for a more dramatic and higher rise design for the scheme (not trying to put words in your mouth or anything ;))

[LeedsLad]

Roof Briggate and you can park in the new Eastgate/Harewood, stroll though the Market, go through the Victoria Quarter, shop on Briggate, go into Trinity Quarter, follow through into Leeds Shopping Plaza then get Free City Bus back to the car. Almost completely undercover!

[Leeds_John]

Toronto if im not mistaken di Livio?

[di Livio]

Toronto if im not mistaken di Livio?

You're not mistaken.
it's by Santiago Calatrava.

[Even Flow]

Well, I finally got myself down to the exhibition. For those of you who are thinking of going, it's worth it just to see the model of the entire city centre!
Overall, thinks look very promising.
Planning is going in at the start of May, they expect no problems.
Start on site is hoped for mid-late 2007, seems a very tight schedule when they are tendering each building to indivdual architects.
As stated, New York House is being held up in the hope they can acquire the scheme.
The Bookends are being moved by 12m. They are not sure about logistics yet.
A few people seemed to be getting quite angry, someone was upset about a chnatown building I believe.

[Fred2]

A few people seemed to be getting quite angry, someone was upset about a chnatown building I believe.

I think that building is an old tailoring factory. Owned by the Lyons family, the firm and its retail outlets went under the name of Alexandre.
Can't see much virtue in saving the building which dates from the 1920's/30's.

[di Livio]

A few people seemed to be getting quite angry, someone was upset about a chnatown building I believe.

I'm going tomorrow with nothing new to say... and i bet it'll be like the Trinity Quarter exhibition all over again - I go on the final day, when all the staff are fed up, and the only other person there is a tramp who's wandered in off the streets (who wasn't me as it happens, although I could use a haircut at the moment, and some new jeans, but that's another matter entirely)

Can't see much virtue in saving the building which dates from the 1920's/30's.

I agree it should probably go, but it's worth saying, that for a child of the '80s a reason to save it could be that it was built in the 1920s/'30s.

[Fred2]

I agree it should probably go, but it's worth saying, that for a child of the '80s a reason to save it could be that it was built in the 1920s/'30s.

As a child of the late 20's I take your point. - but that doesn't make it any more visually attractive !

[Leeds No.1]

Is the exhibiton open until tomorrow? I missed it today I might go in again tomorrow; could someone take some photo's of the model?

[Smoggie_Si]

I've been digesting the plans for the last week or so, I'm gutted to have missed the exhibition when I was back last week to pick up the new Smogmobile, so am having to base my comments on the ridiculously small thumbnail images on the website.

Overall I have to say I'm pretty positive about the proposals.

Positives:
Much mention is made of architectural quality, it's difficult to comment on whether that will be the case without seeing bigger renderings, but it's a good start! The fact that the new Eastgate buildings are going to be in keeping with the existing Blomfield style, but with a number of different architects used for the rest of the development should mean that it doesn't feel too pastichey.
Provision of public realm spaces.
The hideous New York House proposal has bitten the dust ;)
Retention of Templar House and the Templar Hotel will add some character to the scheme.

Negatives:
Chinatown building to go. I still feel that it's worth of retention.
I'm still unclear what is to happen to the north side of Eastgate. I can't understand the rationale for destroying it if it is to go. I would have thought opening up a section of the ground floor to allow pedestrians through would be an easy enough thing to do. I couldn't really care less what happens to the south side (bookend apart).

Moving the bookends by 18m! WTF! Seems like a huge cost for such a small distance, would have thought they could leave them where they are and work around them, 18m doesn't seem too significant a distance in the context of the size of the scheme.

Have to say I share Di Livio's cynicism that the developers will knock them down and accidently forget to put them up again! Oh whoops! Similar to how buildings seem to mysteriously burn down when development is proposed. ;)

[Leeds No.1]

I do think the Chinatown building could be retained but I'm not too bothered if it's demolished- I wouldn't want it to get in the way of the rest of the development. I hope the chinese supermarkets and chinese shops can establish a new china town area though so that the current china town isn't lost. Maybe on Quarry Hill?

[Smoggie_Si]

I do think the Chinatown building could be retained but I'm not too bothered if it's demolished- I wouldn't want it to get in the way of the rest of the development. I hope the chinese supermarkets and chinese shops can establish a new china town area though so that the current china town isn't lost. Maybe on Quarry Hill?

Agreed No 1. I feel far more strongly about the north side of Eastgate than I do about the Chinatown building. I wouldn't want retention of the latter if it jeapordised the scheme, however I can't see any justification for losing the north side of Eastgate and I would oppose the scheme if it were to go without a pretty bloody good reason.

Like I say, I can't see enough detail on the plans to know what the plans are for Eastgate itself.

[Smoggie_Si]

Aha! I've had another look and the site's been updated. From the site masterplan, it appears that the north of Eastgate will be largely untouched with the exception of removing a section half way along. However the colour coding doesn't make it very clear. Anyone else interpret it the same way as me?

If I'm correct, then I'm very happy indeed with the proposals. It even seems like a section of the Chinatown building is to be retained.

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/urbanMasterplan_large.jpg

[Leeds No.1]

What's confusing you about the colour coding? Eastgate will be altered slightly but nothing so major it wil ltotally change the look of it. The plan is to retain or move buildings to keep the same style but making the road restricted access by paving it but allowing public transport to use it. I must say that I would prefer to see this fully pedestriansied or no pedestrianisation but on the other hand- its really impossible to close it to public transport as it's such a vital route out of Leeds City Bus Station.

[Leeds No.1]

Also whats that small circular building right in the very middle of the inner ring road? Notice how the Quarry Hill buildings are on this plan.

[Smoggie_Si]

What's confusing you about the colour coding?

The shades of pinky purpley type colour all look very similar to me. Any ladies on the forum able to enlighten me as to the correct name for the colour? Hey I'm a bloke, I only know the name of 7 colours! ;)

[Smoggie_Si]

Also whats that small circular building right in the very middle of the inner ring road?

Strange, it seems to be under the Regent Street flyover where the council park vehicles at the mo. Can't imagine anything will be going there!

[Leeds No.1]

Magenta?

[ahmedd]

LN1 I always thought you were a bloke!

Importantly, Anyone notice how millgarth police station could be redevelped?

[LeedsLad]

They said not at all to me - 'they've just spent a lot of money on it with lots of specialist umovable equipment - there will be a new building next door to 'hide' it.
I'm hoping this might change with (what seems like the inevitable) Yorkshire Police 'Superforce'. Leeds has to be the natural home for any new Yorkshire Police HQ and I'd hope they could do something on the Milgarth site....

[LeedsLad]

I wondered what the little circle at the top right was - forgot to ask tho!!
The Grand Arcade could see a bit of a revival with this scheme hopefully too... Looks like Heaven and Hell was shut down?...
And if the Grand Arcade gets a boost, with the new shop fronts under construction with the Grand Theatre rennovation New Briggate could get a boost too with people walking from Briggate, down through the Grand Arcade to the new dev

[Leeds No.1]

(In rpely to Ahmedd coz I cba to quote it) Well I don't actually know what I am. I must remember to check soemtime!

[LeedsLad]

If anyone hasn't filled out their feedback yet how about suggesting it includes an IMAX?... A nice attraction which Leeds lacks at the moment...

[Stig282]

Are we trying to annoy all the other Yorkshire cities? cos that one would really get Bradford's goat!

[LeedsLad]

Bradford!?! It's just a suburb of Leeds isn't it? :runaway:
Only thing is I don't think it shows any decent films, but some Hollywood films make it to IMAX (eg Polar Express), whereas Bradford tends to show some film on Scuba Diving... Also not worth going all the way to Bradford for...
All in all Leeds could do with an IMAX as just something else for people to do (might as well have conference facilities while we're annoying other Yorkshire towns/cities).
Could someone suggest the IMAX for me then?... I've already sent my feedback :bash:

[Leeds No.1]

I don't really think it needs an IMAX when Bradford has one; although I wouldn't object if it was in the plans. I think it would be a better idea to get a major national museum there like Bradford's NMFPT or the NRM in York.

[di Livio]

So I finally got to the exhibition, and because of high winds and lack of haircut, I went there looking like the wild man of freakin' Borneo. I loitered for a while, evading the vulture-like circling of some random suit until the attractive girl with the beautiful eyes was free to talk.Then I made my move, asking a series of slightly embarrassing questions in an awkward manner.

What I got was this-

The bookends will be moved either brick-by brick or ,and this I find a tad unbelievable, by digging under the earth and scooping them up before moving them to another location (??!!)

Eastgate will be pedestriansed except for eco-friendly buses.

The Chapel is in, as is a section of the Lyon's Works.
The Labour Exchange is out. (having gone down there today, only the bookends and the chapel are worth keeping imo)

High-rise structures were avoided in the scheme to protect views of the Kirkgate market's domes. Ms. Bailey agreed that the police station is hideous, however, like New York House it's beyond the limits of the new design.

Selfridges are out, for the moment.

The developers are keen to maintain the Chinese presence in the area, but it's up to the existing retailers whether they want to stay or not.


Additions to the Eastgate buildings will be built in the Blomfield style, which on the model echo the arch opening to The Light


Personally, I loved the proposed scheme, and if the truth be told I quite fancied the Farrells representative, but then again, the way to a woman's heart is clearly not in discussing pedestrianisation and the works of Reg Blomfield! (my trivia on the shared architect for the Headrow and Regent Street fell a little flat, deservedly)

[Even Flow]

I believe you may have spoken to the same person as I did yesterday. I too was somewhat shocked when I heard about the possible lifting of the buildings by "Jacks", though apparently it is not set in stone. (No pun intended.)

[Leeds No.1]

Yeah maybe just a bit unbelieveable! Then again =/ would be quite funny to see an oversized digger come along and scoop the building up heh.

The rest seems quite good! Shame Selfridges are out though; they might be attracted back and surely will have some interest in Leeds in the future; to some extent its annoying Allders is being split; it was a huge store that would be perfect for a Selfridges/John Lewis. Maybe Selfridges will buy an old buildign and extend it... or they might never come. Only time will tell!

[Skopie]

I thought Selfridges had no plans to expand in the near future?

[Leeds No.1]

Yeah I dont think they do but I'm sure in the future they will want to expand to some extent.

[jimbo]

So I finally got to the exhibition, and because of high winds and lack of haircut, I went there looking like the wild man of freakin' Borneo. I loitered for a while, evading the vulture-like circling of some random suit until the attractive girl with the beautiful eyes was free to talk.Then I made my move, asking a series of slightly embarrassing questions in an awkward manner.

What I got was this-

The bookends will be moved either brick-by brick or ,and this I find a tad unbelievable, by digging under the earth and scooping them up before moving them to another location (??!!)

Eastgate will be pedestriansed except for eco-friendly buses.

The Chapel is in, as is a section of the Lyon's Works.
The Labour Exchange is out. (having gone down there today, only the bookends and the chapel are worth keeping imo)

High-rise structures were avoided in the scheme to protect views of the Kirkgate market's domes. Ms. Bailey agreed that the police station is hideous, however, like New York House it's beyond the limits of the new design.

Selfridges are out, for the moment.

The developers are keen to maintain the Chinese presence in the area, but it's up to the existing retailers whether they want to stay or not.


Additions to the Eastgate buildings will be built in the Blomfield style, which on the model echo the arch opening to The Light


Personally, I loved the proposed scheme, and if the truth be told I quite fancied the Farrells representative, but then again, the way to a woman's heart is clearly not in discussing pedestrianisation and the works of Reg Blomfield! (my trivia on the shared architect for the Headrow and Regent Street fell a little flat, deservedly)

Hard not to get an incredibly warm feeling (not that kind ;)) from the reports of the forumers who have visited the Harewood / Eastgate exhibition.

Hat tipping to current buildings most welcome. Only downside is continued presence of Milgarth police station. Idea to stay away from tall towers seems eminently sensible, don't want one big block looming over the rest of them.

Roll on planning applications and a start on site (though that still seems 1.5 years away at least). Will be a juicy construction contract for whoever gets it.

[Val Verde]

Does anyone think that it would be a good idea if a new railway station similar to Manchester Oxford Road or Manchester Deansgate could be built near to Leeds Parish Church and the A61 to serve this development (guess it would also be handy for the bus station, royal armouries, quarry hill and clarence dock as well). I submitted this question when I filled in the comments form on the Eastgate website. What would anyone on this site think?

[LeedsLad]

EXACTLY! I put the same on my feedback - there's currently just a grassy bank either side of the rails - perfect site for a second city centre station, just opposite the bus station for PROPER Integrated Public Transport....
No one wants to get on free city bus at the train station to get to the bus station -you have to do a complete loop of the city centre! And it must be getting on for a mile to walk between the two...
This development would be a good excuse for the council to force the developers to pay for it too!

[Fred2]

Does anyone think that it would be a good idea if a new railway station similar to Manchester Oxford Road or Manchester Deansgate could be built near to Leeds Parish Church and the A61 to serve this development (guess it would also be handy for the bus station, royal armouries, quarry hill and clarence dock as well). I submitted this question when I filled in the comments form on the Eastgate website. What would anyone on this site think?

Yes I think i would be a good idea, and it could be built on the site of the previous Marsh Lane Station. Incidentally, it was here that the very first Leeds passenger railway station was built in 1834 so it would have historic associations.

[LeedsLad]

I think Marsh Lane site is just a little too far out - not far by train but a reasonable walk on foot back to the bus station etc. The site opposite the bus station/next to bingo would be more handy/central...

[ahmedd]

I too visited the exhibition today, there were good ideas there, pedestrianise Eastgate, the tree lined boulevards and public spaces. There was a distinc lack of details such as materials that would be used and designs for builidings. I understand that these will be developed once outline planning permission is given.

Confirmed they are definately in talks to purchase the new york house site.

My suggestion was that they needed some statement buildings to make their mark like the Birmingham Selfridges.

[LeedsLad]

Does anyone think that it would be a good idea if a new railway station similar to Manchester Oxford Road or Manchester Deansgate could be built near to Leeds Parish Church and the A61 to serve this development (guess it would also be handy for the bus station, royal armouries, quarry hill and clarence dock as well). I submitted this question when I filled in the comments form on the Eastgate website. What would anyone on this site think?
Something like this?:
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/9807/leedsaerialmarket5lx.jpg

[LeedsLad]

My suggestion was that they needed some statement buildings to make their mark like the Birmingham Selfridges.
As long as it looks NOTHING like Birmingham Selfridges :eek2:
Image in 10 or even 5 years how crap it's gonna look?... Imagine if they had built something equivalent in the 60's/70's/80's??? Everyone would want it pulled down. I don't think it's particularly nice now never mind in a few years...
I do agree it has been a bit of a statement and gets a lot of attention. But then again so do stunning girls who go out with ugly rich guys... :bash:

[Val Verde]

Yes that is 100% what I'm thinking. It should have four tracks, with two platforms so that intercity trains can bypass this station with the other two tracks for stopping trains and the station should have basic facilities such as ticket machine, conveniece store, coffee shop, cash machines and toilets. Should be called Leeds Eastgate station to advertise the Eastgate quarter perhaps. Also the best location for other things I mentioned in my previous post on this thread.

[LeedsLad]

Yes that is 100% what I'm thinking. It should have four tracks, with two platforms so that intercity trains can bypass this station with the other two tracks for stopping trains and the station should have basic facilities such as ticket machine, conveniece store, coffee shop, cash machines and toilets. Should be called Leeds Eastgate station to advertise the Eastgate quarter perhaps. Also the best location for other things I mentioned in my previous post on this thread.

My absolute ideal (given the demise of Supertram) would be the introduction of Tram-Trains to do a loop of the city centre. It could leave the main rail line at this new station then head towards the new Eastgate Quarter...
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5788/leedsaerialmarket27cq.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3074/leedscentregoogleearth1nm.jpg

[Val Verde]

Thats an excellent idea as it'll mean Leeds will have it's very own Circle Line pub crawl. :cheers: Doubt Alastair Darling will allow it though. :(

[di Livio]

My suggestion was that they needed some statement buildings to make their mark like the Birmingham Selfridges.

I'd like to see the whole development featured in Architectural Review in 2011. Birmingham Selfridges is good to look at from certain points, but the rest of the development is quite bland and will probably age badly.

I'd like our development to really push the boat out in terms of modern design, with long-lasting building materials like granite, brick and stone, and a galleria designed by a world-class architect.

[di Livio]

Thumbs up for a small train station.

If the intention is to fulfill Blomfield's ambitions for the Headrow,would it not make sense to get rid of Headrow House at some stage, and replace it with the original hotel design? It would get rid of the hordes of lunchtime smokers from Dortmund Square.


http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/img_hr/HeadrowHouse.jpg



http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/23/9923.jpg

[LeedsLad]

I'd definatley suport that. Must be pretty rare to have an entire street as long as The Headrow with a uniform masterplan...
Only problem is who would pay to knock a large building down and replace it with a smaller one in such a prime site?
Is that another building I see next to it for the site of Dortmund Sq?
I find all this Blomfield stuff really interesting are there any websites that cover the subject?
Maybe a good display for the new Leeds museum?
Anyone else notice the Eastgate proposal includes a site for the Chinese Arch donated by Huangzhou our Chinese twin city? It's located between Eastgate Petrol Station and Quarry Hill?...
Anyone hear the story how we got the arch? It's pretty funny? A councillor received a scale model of it to approve, but he thought the model was the gift. Council are now left red faced with no-where suitable to locate the huge Arch!!

[Fred2]

Must be pretty rare to have an entire street as long as The Headrow with a uniform masterplan...

I find all this Blomfield stuff really interesting are there any websites that cover the subject?
Maybe a good display for the new Leeds museum?

However interesting the Blomfield master plan was it has to be remembered that it only covered one side of the Headrow (apart from the Barclays ? bank building at the corner of the Headrow and Vicar Lane). The bookends, so favoured by some, do not in my view accord with Blomfields plan and were erected some 20-40 years later.

[di Livio]

I find all this Blomfield stuff really interesting are there any websites that cover the subject?

http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk

[Even Flow]

Just announced on Look North that the police forces in Yorkshire are to merge. Feelings about this news aside, a chance to knock down that monstrosity that they are proposing to keep? (Milgarth).

[Fred2]

Just announced on Look North that the police forces in Yorkshire are to merge. Feelings about this news aside, a chance to knock down that monstrosity that they are proposing to keep? (Milgarth).


Let's hope so !

[Leeds No.1]

The plans show major remodelling for the police station though so it might looks quite good after remodelling; in the same way K2 was ugly as Dudley House before.

[di Livio]

I was told at the exhibition that Millgarth was 'crown land owned by the queen' (I had to repress any territorial feelings at that point), so any decision about the site would be down to the state rather than TCS.

[di Livio]

Noticed this large aerial with a visualisation of the scheme. I can't believe i didn't complian about the fact that we will no longer be able to see the bookends from Quarry Hill. I was told the exteriors on Regent Street will be developed in consultation with the civic architect John Thorp.



http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/image3Daerial_large.jpg

[Leeds No.1]

ypn.co.uk

Small firms 'kept in dark over compensation' claim
Businesses have to make way for £700m scheme

Andrew Robinson
SMALL businesses facing eviction to make way for a department store claim they are being kept in the dark about compensation.
Developers are pushing ahead with a £700m plan to revamp a large area of Leeds city centre in the Eastgate area, which will become a John Lewis store, 600 apartments, 2,500 car parking spaces, cinemas, a medical centre and 120 retail units. Up to 8,000 jobs will be created.
It will mean several businesses and around 60 residents will have to move out as their premises are bulldozed.
Around one-third of those affected have agreed on the amount of compensation but several businesses are holding out. It is likely they will be forced to go by a compulsory purchase order.
Businessman Bob Seaman, who owns waistcoat manufacturer Roberts, says he has not been told when he has to move nor how much compensation he will receive.
The business has been in Templar Street for 14 years and employs 12 staff.
"What they are doing is taking a liberty really – it's big business getting what they want. Manufacturing is dead, we are not given a chance at all. My chances of finding suitable premises are getting narrower. I am going to try to find premises elsewhere, but rents in other parts of the city centre are high."
Mr Seaman said Leeds' Chinese quarter – restaurants, shops and health specialists – will be destroyed by the development. "To have a Chinese quarter is good for Leeds.Our city will just become a place full of shops."
The 8.5 hectare scheme, backed by Leeds Council and led by developers Hammerson Plc and Town Centre Securities, is expected to be started in 2008.
The whole of Eastgate will be completely revitalised, lining it with shops, bars and new flats which will face on to a newly-landscaped street.
North of Eastgate will be a covered street with shops on two levels on either side and two new department stores, including a John Lewis store.
A spokesman for Hammerson said discussions with tenants, residents and landlords about compensation were ongoing. He expected 90 per cent of people would agree on compensation and the rest would be compensated following compulsory purchase.
He said businesses would be compensated for future earnings and others would be helped to relocate.
A Leeds Council spokes-man said the scheme would revitalise a run-down part of the city centre.
Council leader Andrew Carter said: "This scheme is one of the most exciting, bold and innovative developments Leeds has seen for many years. It will help achieve the council's mission of bringing the benefits of a prosperous, vibrant and attractive city to all the people of Leeds and will take the city up a league in terms of its retail competitiveness nationally and internationally."
It will secure massive private sector investment in the city and provide employment, he added.
"It is extremely important that people go and look at the plans and get the leaflets and tell the council and the developers what they think of the proposals."
Leeds Council's executive board will meet on April 19, from 1pm at the Leeds Civic Hall to consider the proposals.
Members of the public can gain further information about the plans and submit their views on the scheme through the website www.eastgateleeds.co.uk.
andrew.robinson@ypn.co.uk
14 April 2006

Its a small loss for a huge gain... Im sure they'll get over it! What do they expect in one of the country's most important city centres anyway; theres plenty of other places they can go in the city.

[Alphie]

I can't believe i didn't complian about the fact that we will no longer be able to see the bookends from Quarry Hill.

It does look like that from the visualisation but I was told quite pointedly by one of the architects that they were deliberately preserving that view. He showed me a diagram that did seem to suggest that.

I notice in the above article it mentions TWO department stores. Do you think this is a recent development or usual YEP inaccuracy?!

[Even Flow]

There have always been plans for two department stores. Originally it was to be John Lewis and Selfridges, but Selfridges have since announced they are cutting back their expansion plans, so the second department store is now unknown.

[di Livio]

Mr Seaman said Leeds' Chinese quarter – restaurants, shops and health specialists – will be destroyed by the development. "To have a Chinese quarter is good for Leeds.Our city will just become a place full of shops."

The so-called 'Chinese Quarter' is an insult to the community it is supposed to serve. I knew a guy from Guangzhou who visited one of his mates at Leeds Uni, and i have to say, i was a little bit embarrassed when he said he'd feasted at the Lucky Dragon (below), knowing what kind of area it is.

http://www.leodis.net/imagesLeodis/screen/81/2002813_25338381.jpg

A large Chinese supermarket has opened on Vicar Lane in a good location with decent facilities. Surely that is preferable to maintaining the shabby area around Eastgate.

[Fred2]

A large Chinese supermarket has opened on Vicar Lane in a good location with decent facilities. Surely that is preferable to maintaining the shabby area around Eastgate.


Hear hear !

[rhinomatt]

Hear hear !
:)

i just hope all this does not take away the feeling of the outdoor shoping leeds has to offer.

[LeedsLad]

Did everyone know (I assume they did, but I previously didn't) that there is a shopping arcade inside that building full of little Chinese shops? I always thought there were just the shops/restaurants at street level but you can go inside. Quite a hidden little gem! Places like this and the former Granary Wharfe market keep cities individual - it's a shame to see them go...
This should probably go on the Granary Wharfe thread but why did they shut down the market, and is it due to reopen??

[LeedsLad]

Interestingly in the YEP tonight, in the planning section, there are planning applications from 'The Leeds Partnership' for several 6m flagpoles atop several buildings in the area...

[Rob]

I noticed the flagpole applications, :? they're all over town ! :dunno:

[LeedsLad]

I assume they're a temporary marketing gimmic? Wonder if they'll get permission - one flag on one building is unlikely to get turned down, but the cumulative impact will be quite big - there's about 10 applications.
I wonder if this means they already own all the buildings?

[onix]

..

[Even Flow]

The projected start date is Q1 2007.

[onix]

..

[Leeds No.1]

Q1- 1st quarter? Dunno
John Lewis aims to open in Autumn 2010 so maybe its in phases- one starting 2007, the next 2008.

[onix]

..

[Even Flow]

Q1 means quarter 1- i.e Jan-March.
I went to the exhibition for the scheme and was told it would commence in the first quarter of 2007. They didnt mention phases, though it is possible it wont all be built at the same time. Completion is scheduled for the 4th quarter of 2010.

[Leeds No.1]

I just been on the JL site and the date has changed to 2011. So I expect building to be complete mid-late 2010 with openings in 2011.

[Monsoon]

This scheme looks really good, the architect I talked to at the exhibition was very smart, and new lots about sustainability and the environment. There were ideas even at this stage to use the heat from the shops to heat the flats air and water.
He had a very interesting idea of using the ground rock (which they have studied and found to be porous) as a heat source, by pumping wasted heat into it. (Don’t know how it works.)

The layout of the buildings was very good, no large shopping “plazas” just good streets like the best parts of Leeds’s CBD. Plus the use of more than one architect adds to my praise. Although the new bookends were hideous blue things. :tongue:

[di Livio]

The layout of the buildings was very good, no large shopping “plazas” just good streets like the best parts of Leeds’s CBD.

Yep, I really believe it will enhance the overall feel of the city centre with gallerys, pavement cafes, long streets and squares. It should also revitalise the urban fabric around Vicar Lane.

[onix]

..

[di Livio]

i even think just re-paveing some of the existing shopping streets would make them look alot better. look at brigatte, its looks ten times better with new paveing. just need to do the same down that street where vigin megastores and next are. would make it look great.

Agreed. I like the effect of the new paving on Briggate, even if i have doubts about the quality of the materials (would granite have been better?), and about some of the people who walk on the surface (chewing gum, etc) !

[Leeds No.1]

apparently Albion Street is to be re-paved. I don't mind the paving around Lands Lane and Central Square but its cracking up so needs sprucing up wit new paving even if its a similar design.

[di Livio]

Propertyexecutive.co.uk

Tuesday, May 02, 2006

Leeds pushes ahead with CPO for city centre redevelopment
Proposals for a major retail-led redevelopment in Leeds, planned as a new urban quarter for the city, have taken a step forward. Councillors have agreed to acquire the land needed using a compulsory purchase order (CPO).

Plans for the Eastgate and Harewood area of the city include a John Lewis department store, over 100 new shops, some 600 residential units, office space and new leisure and entertainment facilities. In addition, the 8.5 hectare site will be the location for cinemas, a gym, a medical centre and a new church.

It is claimed that the project - a collaborative venture involving the city council, John Lewis, Hammersons and Town Centre Securities - will also revitalise one of the city's oldest streets, Lady Lane.

On the current timetable, the scheme is expected to begin climbing off the drawing board in 2008 and be completed in 2011. In a related development, the council has started the next phase of consultation on the Action Area Plan (AAP) for the city centre.

[onix]

..

[di Livio]

The Kirkgate Market, designed by Brodrick?!!

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/theSiteToday_large.jpg

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/illGeorgeSt_large.png

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/illHeadrow_large.png

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/illEbenezerSt_large.png

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/illResiQuarter_large.png

http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/images/illEdwardSt_large.png

[Leeds No.1]

I don't see the link you're trying to make between Kirkgate Market, Cuthbert Brodrick and the Harewood/Eastgate Qtr- I know its designed by him and next to the Harewood/Eastgate quarter- what are you trying to say =/ You didn't know it was designed by him? Or you think the scheme will diminish the market that is so great coz it was designed by him?? Im confused

[onix]

..

[daveylad2]

I don't see the link you're trying to make between Kirkgate Market, Cuthbert Brodrick and the Harewood/Eastgate Qtr- I know its designed by him and next to the Harewood/Eastgate quarter- what are you trying to say =/ You didn't know it was designed by him? Or you think the scheme will diminish the market that is so great coz it was designed by him?? Im confused

The Market wasn't designed by Brodrick it was designed by John and Joseph Leeming of London. I think that is the point Di Livio is making?

[Leeds No.1]

Which one was designed by Brodrick then- the CornX and City Hall is it. I wish it would get demolished too but furthermore, the bus station was only rebuilt in 1996 or somin wasnt it? And in the 36 guide is listed as 'modern'. It just needs bringing up to date- the likelihood of it all being rebuilt is very unlikely.

[di Livio]

I don't see the link you're trying to make between Kirkgate Market, Cuthbert Brodrick and the Harewood/Eastgate Qtr- I know its designed by him and next to the Harewood/Eastgate quarter- what are you trying to say =/ You didn't know it was designed by him? Or you think the scheme will diminish the market that is so great coz it was designed by him?? Im confused

You should learn to communicate using telepathy, as I do.
(or is it apathy? :) )

The aerial photo has a box next to the markets saying it was designed by 'Broderick', whoever he was.

What i thought was quite interesting is the shared surface planned for Vicar Lane, which i hadn't noticed.
or is that simply too Alan Partridge?

[Leeds No.1]

Yeah I hadnt noticed that either. Maybe its a recent addition- If its to stay as a transport route I don't think shared surfaces are a particularly good idea- if it was to be fully pedestrianised fine but hmm. Thats just my opinion however. Ideally all city centre roads would be pedestrianised, but realistically it is impossible to get rid of traffic altogether. I would say it should be pedestrianised as much as possible- if you've been to Monks Cross, it is pedestrian friendly despite allowing traffic where necessary. The lanes should be narrowed and footpaths widened, with a wide middle footpath so that people can cross to the middle, effectively creating two small and narrow lanes- I suppose like superbusways. (I realise they would need to be a bit wider as not all transport using these would be superbuses)

[Leeds No.1]

And its telepathy ;p

[Val Verde]

Im not a fan of such shared surface schemes if that shared surface makes Vicar Lane look like the pavement and road is one entity as opposed to two because I remember when in Torquay once a road which appeared to be a pedestrian zone was actually a shared surface route and had bus traffic running down it causing potential confusion because the pavement and road looked the same. Surely if Vicar Lane were to have a shared surface then this could cause accidents and confusion as to where the pavement ends and where the road begins.

Anyway when does work start on Eastgate and has there been any news of any other high profile tenants other than John Lewis (and I guess Waitrose considering looking at a plan of Eastgate on the Eastgate website there is to be a "foodhall" located next door to John Lewis which I would imagine to be Waitrose considering it is John Lewis's sister company)?

[LeedsLad]

Interestingly in the YEP tonight, in the planning section, there are planning applications from 'The Leeds Partnership' for several 6m flagpoles atop several buildings in the area...

A few of these flagpoles got their decisions through today - some rejected, some accepted - wonder what theyre for?
'Eastgate Harewood Quater here soon' flags?

[Leeds No.1]

I thought they were Leeds Live it Love it ones; I heard rumours a while ago that flags would be used but then again maybe not.

[Stig282]

Right then sleuths, see if you can find info on this. I briefly looked but had no joy.

Property website tells me there are apartments for sale in the Harewood Qtr (with 200% return on investment *bollox*). Anyway there's no info as to what development, but there is a render...

2 bedrooms - Asking price of £106,995
http://images.primelocation.com/EMPIGR/images/EMPI999000142.JPG

An amazing new Development with 200% Return on investment! It is Fantastically placed, within walking distance of Leeds mailine train station and all city shopping, cafes, bars and restaurants

Studio, 1 & 2 Bedroom Apartments Prices from £106,995

# 200% Return on Investment!
# 10% of property value rental advance on completion!
# Long completion means up to 18 months of accrued equity!
# Part of £700m regeneration project
# Located in the Harewood quarter of Leeds
# Fantastically placed, within walking distance of Leeds mainline train
station and all city shopping, cafes, bars and restaurants.
# Within 7 miles of Leeds airport and with easy access to the A64.

[Fred2]

Looks like the development by Morris Properties announced about a year ago to be built in Skinner Lane between Regent Street and - Mabgate. If so, doesn't sound like the Harewood Quarter to me. Not surprised though asd their other poposed devlopment, Aire, next to Richmond Bridge, they advertised to be in the Northern Quarter !

[Stig282]

Now that you mention Morris, I remembered where I've seen this render before! here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=6490253&postcount=14)

As for being part of the £700m regen...more b'lox.

[Fred2]

Now that you mention Morris, I remembered where I've seen this render before! here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=6490253&postcount=14)

As for being part of the £700m regen...more b'lox.



The development was called '20/20' and I read about it in July last year after which I wrote to the company asking exactly where it was to be situated.

[Fred2]

Correction - it first appeared more than a year ago for it was featured in YEP Homes supplement of 3 June 2005. Long gestation !

[Fred2]

In spite of all the blurb, it is a bit of a walk to Leeds train station - especially if yoiu are lugging heavy suitcases !

[Leeds No.1]

Thats where freecitybus comes in! Even so, its not ages away!

[Fred2]

Thats where freecitybus comes in! Even so, its not ages away!

Didn't know the free bus went to Skinner Lane !

[JOliver]

Looks like the development by Morris Properties announced about a year ago to be built in Skinner Lane between Regent Street and - Mabgate. If so, doesn't sound like the Harewood Quarter to me.

Area there is too dodgy to be called "Fantastically placed". And sure you would not want to walk there from "Leeds mainline train station" alone after dark... Maybe that's why they target investors who would not bother visiting site themselves.

[Rob]

You can walk around there after dark, the general area is fairly buzzing with activity until quite late. I've been to one or two businesses around North Street in late evening and it has a fairly good atmosphere with busy character bars etc, and popular with a fair group of people. It would be a fair walk to the station though if someone wasn't fairly fit.

[jimbo]

You can walk around there after dark, the general area is fairly buzzing with activity until quite late. I've been to one or two businesses around North Street in late evening and it has a fairly good atmosphere with busy character bars etc, and popular with a fair group of people. It would be a fair walk to the station though if someone wasn't fairly fit.

don't get me started on the Northern Quarter - Reliance Bar, Hansas, Greedy Pig and some wicked apartment conversions! Hurrah.

[Stig282]

Mabgate is a far cry from the bustling Northern Quarter that is North Street.
The nearest existant residential to Mabgate is the converted shoe factory next the Shell Garage on Regent Street known as "Millwright". Great accomodation severely let down by location...

[JOliver]

You can walk around there after dark, the general area is fairly buzzing with activity until quite late. I've been to one or two businesses around North Street in late evening and it has a fairly good atmosphere with busy character bars etc, and popular with a fair group of people. It would be a fair walk to the station though if someone wasn't fairly fit.

Sorry mate, I will stand by my point. North Street is OK, Skinner Lane, especially after Regents Street is NOT. Fancy a drink there in a corner pub - what's it's called? :cheers: :gunz: :)

[JOliver]

don't get me started on the Northern Quarter - Reliance Bar, Hansas, Greedy Pig and some wicked apartment conversions! Hurrah.

Yeah it's all nice and cool - but don't go any further :) Last summer witnessed a cool fight there - 4 white blokes vs some 15 black brothers, both sides with knives, chains, hammers etc. Probably just left Reliance... :wink2:

[JOliver]

Mabgate is a far cry from the bustling Northern Quarter that is North Street.
The nearest existant residential to Mabgate is the converted shoe factory next the Shell Garage on Regent Street known as "Millwright". Great accomodation severely let down by location...

There is one on a corner of North and Skinner, called Fox Heyes I think.

Speaking of location, it does have a potential with plenty of sites just asking for re-developement. Who knows - maybe in 10 years time it will all change there?

[Stig282]

There is one on a corner of North and Skinner, called Fox Heyes I think.
That development is called Lovell House. And is the opposite side of Regent Street than Mabgate. It is far more 'populated' and definately cleaner.

Speaking of location, it does have a potential with plenty of sites just asking for re-developement. Who knows - maybe in 10 years time it will all change there?

As an investor/owner occupier would you be prepared to pay out and have to wait that long for a return?

[JOliver]

As an investor/owner occupier would you be prepared to pay out and have to wait that long for a return?

You're kidding, right? I personally think even better locations are too overpriced now to make a good investment, and in location like this - sorry, not me! :nono:

But still I will be happy to see more developments here, i.e. ex-British Gas site have a great chance as being right across the road from future John Lewis.

[jimbo]

A few of these flagpoles got their decisions through today - some rejected, some accepted - wonder what theyre for?
'Eastgate Harewood Quater here soon' flags?

The Leeds Partnership is new name of the initiative launched between LCC, Hammerson and Town Centre Securities. Sounds like these flagpoles are the start of the big advertising drive. They'll clearly be wanting to line up retail and commercial occupiers long before the scheme gets anywhere near completion.

[jimbo]

I think this might have been posted before, but its an epic visualisation of the Harewood Eastgate Quarter, and most of the rest of the city centre to be fair. I think that it has been left deliberately long distance and vague to show that the design would be undergoing almost daily change before submission for planning, but it still gives you a fine impression of the scale of the site etc. Bring it on!

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4518/image3daeriallarge1kx.jpg

Source: Harewood / Eastgate (http://www.eastgateleeds.co.uk/)

[Stig282]

Someone skilled enough could put Criterion in there, shame you can't get any of the other biggies in there as well!

Nice post Jimbo.

[aviator]

Here it is at last:

06/03333/OT/C Applicant: The Leeds Partnership

Outline application for major redevelopment involving mixed use to provide retail stores, restaurants, bars, and offices within use classes A1, A2, A3, A4, A5 and B1 and housing (class C3), cinema (class D2), gym (class D2), medical centre (class D1), church drop-in facility, creche (class D1), and hotel (class C1), with associated highways works, open space, landscaping, car parking, and pedestrian facilities.

Location: Eastgate and Harewood Quarter

Agent: CB Richard Ellis

[jimbo]

Here it is at last:

06/03333/OT/C Applicant: The Leeds Partnership

Outline application for major redevelopment involving mixed use to provide retail stores, restaurants, bars, and offices within use classes A1, A2, A3, A4, A5 and B1 and housing (class C3), cinema (class D2), gym (class D2), medical centre (class D1), church drop-in facility, creche (class D1), and hotel (class C1), with associated highways works, open space, landscaping, car parking, and pedestrian facilities.

Location: Eastgate and Harewood Quarter

Agent: CB Richard Ellis

Very rarely see the need for a dancing banana, but I think this might warrant it.

:banana:

n.b. what on earth is a church drop-in facility? Call in for a ten minute mea culpe? Somewhere to drop Grandma while you catch Spiderman 7?

[jimbo]

Whilst I appreciate the bookends and the fine avenue they create up Eastgate, they're not half ugly from behind.....

http://img321.imageshack.us/img321/3610/img08579vx.jpg

Not many redeeming features from this angle and they certainly won't add to the views of the residential blocks proposed in the current carparks in the foreground.

[Fred2]

Whilst I appreciate the bookends and the fine avenue they create up Eastgate, they're not half ugly from behind.....

Not many redeeming features from this angle and they certainly won't add to the views of the residential blocks proposed in the current carparks in the foreground.

Agreed. They are horrible. Why there has been this great concern to keep these 'bookends' I do not know.

[The King]

they feel that the book end are an integreal part of the headrow east gate westgate road and removing these would detract from the overall architectural vision of the architect of the headrow. IMO the removal of the worst element of the entire road would not be a major loss as these buildings are of little architectural merit.