I finally made it over to St. Paul. I have to give the camera back, so I figured I should get it done.

I just went down Selby towards downtown and took shots, then the battery gave up. There is so much more in St. Paul, but this is just a start:

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/8853/10vd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/5703/22ti.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/7249/38yi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/3348/42ab.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/3607/59ne.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/707/63eh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/2708/70qd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/8123/80eg.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/2057/97tv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/7611/100wz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/3542/119qq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/5074/122vf.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/513/139nl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/218/147ef1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/3392/153hs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/5631/169zc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/7889/175jd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I think I saw my car...

Thanks again, Anti-Cheesehead! Saint Paul definitely has some gorgeous neighborhoods.

It's too bad your camera didn't last you into downtown - I would have really loved to see views from Harriet Island looking up the bluffs at the skyline, as well as Landmark Center and Rice Park.

I think I saw my car...


Is this your Suzuki? :laugh:

http://img313.imageshack.us/img313/2708/70qd.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The difference in between Minneapolis & St. Paul must be like day & night I bet.

well it depends on which parts you're in of course since they bleed together a bit, but that old saying: "St. Paul, last of the east coast cities. Minneapolis, firts of the west coast cities" is a good idea, course not that extreme. Cosmo vs historic basically.

well it depends on which parts you're in of course since they bleed together a bit, but that old saying: "St. Paul, last of the east coast cities. Minneapolis, firts of the west coast cities" is a good idea, course not that extreme. Cosmo vs historic basically.

Yeah, it really depends on where you are in each city.

Check this out:

Minneapolis
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7091/17oz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

St. Paul
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8213/29rj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I found an excellent site with tons of pictures of St. Paul.

http://www.geomyidae.com/

Here are some pics from that site. Some of these are from as far back as the 1850s:

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8886/18gb1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5431/28jv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9808/35bz.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5527/45nk.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/1314/52pm.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5346/60kz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2253/79yc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3817/84gh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I think St. Paul is one of the most under-appreciated cities in the midwest. Nobody seems to know anything about it. Someone on this site even wondered if St. Paul was a suburb of Minneapolis. St. Paul is gorgeous. St. Paul has awesome historic neighborhoods.

Saint Paul has some fantastic architecture...sorry to ressurect such an old thread.

Sorry I missed this. St. Paul is very attractive. Unfortunately, I have not yet made it to the Twin Cities, but I get the sense that St. Paul is more stately and reserved than Minneapolis, which strikes me as being younger and more energetic. Is that accurate?

Sorry I missed this. St. Paul is very attractive. Unfortunately, I have not yet made it to the Twin Cities, but I get the sense that St. Paul is more stately and reserved than Minneapolis, which strikes me as being younger and more energetic. Is that accurate?I think that is a fair statement. I've lived in both for long periods, the way I describe it is that Minneapolis aspires to be one of the great cities of the world, St Paul is perfectly comfortable being a pleasant midsized midwestern city.

Minneapolis is "hip" and has most of the nightlife. St Paul has more families and is more rooted.

St Paul is stolidly democratic but in a mainstream way. Minneapolis is much more liberal and is seemingly moving farther to the left as time goes by, I think it is trying to catch the bay area, the Green Party wins sometimes.

People in St Paul think Minneapolis is annoyingly pretentious. People in Minneapolis don't go to St Paul because "there is nothing to do there". Those are the stereotypes anyway, but they make a good team. The fact that they are different from each other makes the metro stronger as a whole.

One thing to keep in mind about St Paul is that it is fairly blue collar culturally. People who have money aren't showy about it though they do like nice things (until I returned to Minneapolis full time I had forgotten there were yuppies in the twin cities). Most of the pictures you see at SSC are from the neighborhoods west of downtown and south of 94 which are the most upscale ones. Frogtown, the east side and the west side (which is south of downtown) are all more modest but still cool.

St Paul also has less crime than Minneapolis and is probably one of the safest central cities you will find in a major American metro. Instead of having ghettos it has mixed race working class neighborhoods that some people in the suburbs who don't get out much think are ghettos.

well it depends on which parts you're in of course since they bleed together a bit, but that old saying: "St. Paul, last of the east coast cities. Minneapolis, firts of the west coast cities" is a good idea, course not that extreme. Cosmo vs historic basically.

Haha good one. This will surely become one of my favorite quotes of all time.

Sorry I missed this. St. Paul is very attractive. Unfortunately, I have not yet made it to the Twin Cities, but I get the sense that St. Paul is more stately and reserved than Minneapolis, which strikes me as being younger and more energetic. Is that accurate?

Generally, yes, and yes to what everyone else has already said.

Technically, St. Paul isn't that much older than Minneapolis, but it seems like it is because it's older areas are more intact and get more positive exposure. Summit Avenue in St. Paul is the most significant and famous historic area in Minnesota.....and I don't even have any pictures of it!

Minneapolis tore down a lot more during the urban renewal in the 60s and a good portion of Minneapolis's older areas suffered and continue to suffer from ghetto-ization. St. Paul fixed up some of their problem areas (like the area that these pics are from), while Minneapolis's continue to fester.

Another difference is that St. Paul has much more interesting topography, Minneapolis is generally flat, and St. Paul is hilly with great views.

Minneapolis tore down a lot more during the urban renewal in the 60s and a good portion of Minneapolis's older areas suffered and continue to suffer from ghetto-ization. St. Paul fixed up some of their problem areas (like the area that these pics are from), while Minneapolis's continue to fester.

Another difference is that St. Paul has much more interesting topography, Minneapolis is generally flat, and St. Paul is hilly with great views.

I generally agree with you, but I think it's worth noting that several of the historic areas of Minneapolis have improved noticably during the past decade:

* Historic St. Anthony area (East Hennepin)
* Milling District
* 9th Street Historic Area (from Portland to Chicago)
* parts of Phillips--Franklin Ave/Midtown

Also, while St. Paul's topo is more interesting (its a bit like Cincinnati, only less so), Minneapolis redeems itself due to the lakes and Minnehaha Creek

The Twin Cities are certainly not twins, but they definitely compliment one another!

I generally agree with you, but I think it's worth noting that several of the historic areas of Minneapolis have improved noticably during the past decade:

* 9th Street Historic Area (from Portland to Chicago)
* parts of Phillips--Franklin Ave/Midtown


These are some of the areas that I am talking about. There are a lot of old properties in these areas that were not kept up and eventually torn or burnt down and a lot that are still standing should be or are condemned. Some of these places are/were grand old houses and mansions, and if they were in a better location, they'd be desirable. Look at all of the new crap on Portland ave and all over Phillips, they had to tear down A LOT of old stuff for all of this new affordable housing. Same thing on the northside, lots of new housing up there, but it came at the expense of the old housing that nobody cared about. It's sickening that an old house with fine craftsmanship, someone's pride and joy, can be turned into a house for crackhead squatters, then become a victim of arson, and eventually the bulldozer, and cheap, tacky affordable housing with vinyl siding is put in it's place.

I don't know how old the Minneapolis forumers are, but can any of you remember when the houses you saw east of 35W in Minneapolis were all boarded up or half burnt down? Some of it is still intact, but a lot of those old places have been torn down. If you saw some of these neighborhoods 20 years ago, they wouldn't even be recognizable.

Minneapolis is much more liberal and is seemingly moving farther to the left as time goes by, I think it is trying to catch the bay area,

Was that sarcasm, or a serious statement? If serious wow! I didnt know it was that liberal...

Was that sarcasm, or a serious statement? If serious wow! I didnt know it was that liberal...Perhaps a bit of hyperbole but not by much.

Minneapolis has a 13 seat city council. At one point a few years ago 5 members were gay, two others were Green Party. The Republicans don't even field canidates in city elections.

The city is a magnet for people from the northern plains who are too weird, too gay or too liberal to stay where they grew up. It is part of what makes it less rooted than St Paul, St Paul is full of people who are from St Paul.

Ok I will be reserving a down town condo in Minnie once I graduate law school ;)

Perhaps a bit of hyperbole but not by much.

Minneapolis has a 13 seat city council. At one point a few years ago 5 members were gay, two others were Green Party. The Republicans don't even field canidates in city elections.

The city is a magnet for people from the northern plains who are too weird, too gay or too liberal to stay where they grew up. It is part of what makes it less rooted than St Paul, St Paul is full of people who are from St Paul.

Pretty close, but I think it was only ever four gay members (Gary Schiff, Scott Benson, Robert Lilligren, and ???? (can't remember the fourth)), and only one Green Party member has been on the council at one time (Natalie Johnson-Lee until she was defeated by Don Samuels last election...Cam Gordon is now serving the University/Seward areas). I think that's right?

Pretty close, but I think it was only ever four gay members (Gary Schiff, Scott Benson, Robert Lilligren, and ???? (can't remember the fourth)), and only one Green Party member has been on the council at one time (Natalie Johnson-Lee until she was defeated by Don Samuels last election...Cam Gordon is now serving the University/Seward areas). I think that's right?I wasn't sure if it was four or five, my memory is hazy at times and I didn't bother to look it up. As for the other point Johnson-Lee and Dean Zimmerman were both Green Party members and served at the same time, they both lost but Gordon won so the Greens kept a seat.

These are some of the areas that I am talking about. There are a lot of old properties in these areas that were not kept up and eventually torn or burnt down and a lot that are still standing should be or are condemned. Some of these places are/were grand old houses and mansions, and if they were in a better location, they'd be desirable. Look at all of the new crap on Portland ave and all over Phillips, they had to tear down A LOT of old stuff for all of this new affordable housing. Same thing on the northside, lots of new housing up there, but it came at the expense of the old housing that nobody cared about. It's sickening that an old house with fine craftsmanship, someone's pride and joy, can be turned into a house for crackhead squatters, then become a victim of arson, and eventually the bulldozer, and cheap, tacky affordable housing with vinyl siding is put in it's place.

I don't know how old the Minneapolis forumers are, but can any of you remember when the houses you saw east of 35W in Minneapolis were all boarded up or half burnt down? Some of it is still intact, but a lot of those old places have been torn down. If you saw some of these neighborhoods 20 years ago, they wouldn't even be recognizable.
This reminds me of a question I was going to ask: How is the infill/gentrification scene doing in Mpls?

I wasn't sure if it was four or five, my memory is hazy at times and I didn't bother to look it up. As for the other point Johnson-Lee and Dean Zimmerman were both Green Party members and served at the same time, they both lost but Gordon won so the Greens kept a seat.

Oh yeah, I forgot about Zimmerman...you'd think his conviction would have helped me remember!

I think that is a fair statement. I've lived in both for long periods, the way I describe it is that Minneapolis aspires to be one of the great cities of the world, St Paul is perfectly comfortable being a pleasant midsized midwestern city.

Minneapolis is "hip" and has most of the nightlife. St Paul has more families and is more rooted.

St Paul is stolidly democratic but in a mainstream way. Minneapolis is much more liberal and is seemingly moving farther to the left as time goes by, I think it is trying to catch the bay area, the Green Party wins sometimes.

People in St Paul think Minneapolis is annoyingly pretentious. People in Minneapolis don't go to St Paul because "there is nothing to do there". Those are the stereotypes anyway, but they make a good team. The fact that they are different from each other makes the metro stronger as a whole.

One thing to keep in mind about St Paul is that it is fairly blue collar culturally. People who have money aren't showy about it though they do like nice things (until I returned to Minneapolis full time I had forgotten there were yuppies in the twin cities). Most of the pictures you see at SSC are from the neighborhoods west of downtown and south of 94 which are the most upscale ones. Frogtown, the east side and the west side (which is south of downtown) are all more modest but still cool.

St Paul also has less crime than Minneapolis and is probably one of the safest central cities you will find in a major American metro. Instead of having ghettos it has mixed race working class neighborhoods that some people in the suburbs who don't get out much think are ghettos.

This has got to be one of the most concise and accurate comparisons I've seen. Nice work, Somnifor.

A great thread to rerun!

I would like to make a request to any of the Minnesota members here to show us some pics of the State capital building up close and from the inside. That would be great. I think the Minnesota capital building is one of the more beautiful in the nation.

I would really like to see some more Minneapolis and St. Paul. Really interesting stuff.

*sniff*

actually a friend from wisconsin just visited and i took him around the selby neighborhood today. needless to say he was impressed.

we even saw a cop on a horse in the dead of winter - not sure what the point of that was, but it was interesting.

*sniff*

actually a friend from wisconsin just visited and i took him around the selby neighborhood today. needless to say he was impressed.

we even saw a cop on a horse in the dead of winter - not sure what the point of that was, but it was interesting.
It's not that unusual, Milwaukee has several year round policemen on horses.