i was wondering if there is any possibility for a member state or an autonomous region to just leave the union be an independent country legally or the only way is to fight for it? what im the most interested in is any state in the usa.
and please dont be offensive cos its not supposed to be a fight place about quebecios euskadi or ulster etc... only pure laws politics visions and possibilities. thats all.

I think it would be very difficult to do that. I dont think war would be involved like it was in the civil war. Plus, no state really wants to and no politician would propose to do it. Plus there is no method set up to do this.

In the US, the Constiution says a state can not leave the Union once it has entered the Union.

so technically theres no way to do it even if there was a poll and the results would come out 51% for the leave? im really curious about that

"In the US, the Constiution says a state can not leave the Union once it has entered the Union." Wow, so this could only happen if the state turned protestant?

I can't see why a state would.

I would like to do that

many blue state voters thought about secession after the last election :)

I can't see why a state would.

Take Quebec, Canada for example.. they felt that the french culture should leave them apart from Canada..

many blue state voters thought about secession after the last election :)

Blue cities, not states. I don't think many in southern Illinois would like to be seperated from the rest of NY considering they were red.

^^point taken. however if you review what i wrote.. i referred to the "blue state voters" wanting to secede.
and in reading what you wrote... did you really mean to mix southern illinois and new york?

Didn't they have a referendum abou independence in Quebec in 1997? So it is possible to peacefully secede in Canada.

I can't see why a state would.

ok lets just set up a simple case, like lets say hawaii (its a group of islands very far from the mainland and about 50% of the population is japanese and hawaiian) for instance has got a new very local patriot governor and he/she doesnt agree with the federal politics and decide to leave the union. and ppl vote 51% for being independent. so whats next ?

ok lets just set up a simple case, like lets say hawaii (its a group of islands very far from the mainland and about 50% of the population is japanese and hawaiian) for instance has got a new very local patriot governor and he/she doesnt agree with the federal politics and decide to leave the union. and ppl vote 51% for being independent. so whats next ?

There is no next. Hawaii is as locked into the union as is Kansas.

The Civil War resolved the issue, using verbs. Prior to the war, people would make statements such as The United States are.... Afterwards, the noun/verb agreement became The United States is.......

Czechoslovakia split peacefully into the Czech Rep and Slovakia a few years ago, but there are not many examples of peaceful splits.

It seems grossly unfair that states in the US can only leave by violent means even if 100% of the population wants independence.

and even the soviet union split into several countries peacefully however its socialist republics was locked into the union just as in the usa and even the soviet was not the most "free and peaceful" country in the world. so the point is that the only way they can do is the way of the yugoslav states... thats very sad i think. and how about other countries? like australia ?

Belgium split in 1830 to futile resistance from NL, as did Luxemburg! Norway! More recent: Slovenia.

More recent: Slovenia.

Slovenia wasn't entirely peaceful although compared to the other wars in the Balkans it was relatively bloodless.

Slovenia declared independence on June 25 199, took control of border crossings and held soldiers in Yugoslav federal barracks who were stationed in Slovenia. The Yugoslav army then sent in tanks and bombed ljubljana airport and some of the border checkpoints. By mid-July though the Slovenians were still in control and the tanks were called off to concentrate on attacking Croatia which had declared independence at the same time. About 70 people died in the Slovenian war of independence.

"In the US, the Constiution says a state can not leave the Union once it has entered the Union." Wow, so this could only happen if the state turned protestant?
Yes, and BTW South Carolina trying to turn into protestant.

No state would ever want to leave the union, whether by violent or non-violent means.

Yes, and BTW South Carolina trying to turn into protestant.

What does this mean?

No state would ever want to leave the union, whether by violent or non-violent means.

"ever" is a very long time. Do you really think that the USA in its present form will be around in 1,000 or 5,000 years??

What does this mean?
If they(SC) protest and go to war or something with the US,they might be able to leave the Union.

No state would ever want to leave the union, whether by violent or non-violent means.

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/

what happened to the last queen of Hawaii? i thought it was british territory before becoming a US state?

Didn't they have a referendum abou independence in Quebec in 1997? So it is possible to peacefully secede in Canada.

Yes. They held their 2nd referendum in 1995.

The idea of large soverign nations & centralized power is outdated. The emergence of city-states will profoundly change the face of International politics in the future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_Sovereignism

what happened to the last queen of Hawaii? i thought it was british territory before becoming a US state?

Hawaii was an independent (and absolute) monarchy before a group of American businessmen staged a coup sometime in the 1890s. They then proclaimed a "republic of Hawaii" and petitioned for annexation by the USA.

But anyway, the idea of any state wanting to leave the union is still purely hypothetical. If it ever comes to pass that a significant majority of a state's population wants to leave the union (say in 100 years for an as-of-yet unforseen reason), my guess is that the state would be allowed to go. Secession isn't illegal per se. I think unilateral secession is illegal. So if the federal government agreed, the state would be allowed its independence. And if it were shown through democratic elections that a significant majority wanted out (ie not 51%) there would be a lot of pressure on the federal government to not stand in the way.

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/

The Hawaiian independence movement is entirely confined to the native Hawaiian population, which makes up only 20% of the total population. The rest of the state is made up of Asian and Caucasian-Americans, who don't feel any longing for a native Hawaiian centered country and culture. And only a smallish minority of the Native Hawaiians is for independence. So although there is a movement there, it isn't a serious one, confined as it is to a community that itself makes up a small percentage of the total population.

what happened to the last queen of Hawaii? i thought it was british territory before becoming a US state?


I think it was Spainish territory.

No state will be leavibg the Union for a very long time. Even if a state did there would probably be cut down into counties, maybe even cities.

Picture California spliting. San Francisco metro countries would probably support the idea, but all the way in San Diego and Imperial Counties you would get great resisitance to seperation from the US.

So an entire state wouldn't be able to split, maybe a group of counties that some how found a way to over power one of the greatest military nations on earth. All of this is unlikely in the USA.

^^^ Maybe more likely (although still highly improbable) would be for a group of States to break away, maybe some of the NE States or some of the Southern states together.

No, before the US annexation, Hawaii was an independent state. The Spaniards weren't anywhere close to it, I reckon.

^^^ Maybe more likely (although still highly improbable) would be for a group of States to break away, maybe some of the NE States or some of the Southern states together.


But still, I can't think of any event that would cause one state, or a group of states, to *want* to secede.

But still, I can't think of any event that would cause one state, or a group of states, to *want* to secede.

What if GWB and the republican congress changed the constitution so that a president could serve infinite terms and he was duly re-elected ten times while never winning a single NE State?

What if GWB and the republican congress changed the constitution so that a president could serve infinite terms

i thought im the only one who ever dared to think about it :D

But still, I can't think of any event that would cause one state, or a group of states, to *want* to secede.

I can, but so far there really isn't great reason to. Believe me when I say this though. Bush will not cause, nor any American president as of now, a state or group of States to leave the Union. It'd be dumb and the party of states that even hints at it will be shut down by the rest of the Union.

Bush is not going to cause the end of the world or even thsi country for that matter. :sleepy:

What if GWB and the republican congress changed the constitution so that a president could serve infinite terms and he was duly re-elected ten times while never winning a single NE State?

I think thats impossible.

In the US, the Constiution says a state can not leave the Union once it has entered the Union.
That's what ammendments are for...

In the US, the Constiution says a state can not leave the Union once it has entered the Union.

Article 4. Section. 3.
Clause 1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.

Hmmm...If congress becomes mostly "blue" then "blue cities" can edject from their state.

One great example= Eject Chicago + metro out of Illinois and Illinois will be forgotten, oh no... I am just Kidding.

What if GWB and the republican congress changed the constitution so that a president could serve infinite terms and he was duly re-elected ten times while never winning a single NE State?

Ever heard of checks-and-balances?

Regardless, that would require an amendment to the constitution:



The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

I don't see any states separating from the US anytime soon. But I think we could see parts of states separating from the rest of the state, like Huntsville will do if that Roy Moore moron is elected governor of Alabama :bash: .

ex-yugoslavia is a perfect example of peacefull seperation.

ex-yugoslavia is a perfect example of peacefull seperation.

i thought u dont even know what is irony goran :)

i always thought texas was the only state that could legally leave the union(read it somewhere)

i always thought texas was the only state that could legally leave the union(read it somewhere)

Nope.