An Air France jet has just crashed at Pearson it's an A340

Passenger jet on fire at Toronto airport
Last Updated Tue, 02 Aug 2005 16:53:30 EDT
CBC News
An Air France jet with as many as 200 people aboard has skidded off a runway while landing at Toronto's Pearson International Airport, bursting into flames and sending thick black smoke pouring into the air.

There is no word on the condition of the passengers and crew members on board the A340, with the plane still burning an hour after the 3:50 p.m. crash.


The Air France jet burst into flames after skidding off a runway at Toronto's Pearson Airport Tuesday.
The jet has a capacity of about 200 people.

The airplane was trying to land in bad weather when it skidded off the runway just metres from one of Toronto's busiest roads, Highway 401.

"There was quite a downpour. The visibility was really bad, with lots of lightning," said John Finday, a CBC News journalist who was at the airport at the time of the accident.

The jet crashed through barriers and ended up in a small ravine at the far west end of the airport, the fuselage tipped down and the aircraft's tail in the air.

"An Air France plane landing on runway 2-4 left went off the end of the runway in the area of Convert Drive and the 401 area in Mississauga," Peel police Sgt. Glyn Griffiths said at about 4:30 p.m. "Unknown at the time of any injuries. Flame was seen from the plane. And full response by all emergency vehicles."

The incident happened as most operations at the airport were grounded because of the severe thunderstorms that had been reported in the area.

Rescue crews are on the scene.

i was just watching it on CNN.

i'll keep watching to know more about.

god 200 people dead thats horrible. can you imagine what their families feel.

And on my birthday too, sad day...:(

That's tragic. I hope it's not too bad...

The Smoke Can Be seen from Toronto's far Suburbs
http://www.uploadhut.com/upload/239074.jpg??
http://www.uploadhut.com/upload/239076.jpg??

Up close:
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/pix/pearson_smoke050802.jpg

Guys, apparently the people got out, including the crew.. which is very good news !
they say no tragedies, maybe a couple of injured, but nothing too bad..

"god 200 people dead thats horrible"

all reports say no fatalities

hmm not surprising.. this "tropical storm" is insane..

Everyone made it out alive...according to some news channels.

I litterally missed it by mere seconds going by on the 401. All I can say was the weather around the airport was bad, real bad. Lightning was everywhere. I'm going by the crash site tomorrow, so i'll see if I can snap a few pics on my way to work.

Update: Only 14 minor injuries reported, good news.

I was driving around the Mount Hope area and holy! never seen so many airplanes and buses at Hamilton Airport before. That's when I knew something bad has happened.

Apparently all air flights have been ground at Pearson tonight.

I think I'll grab my camera and take pictures of Hamilton Airport and show just how many buses and airplanes that's there.

I think I'll grab my camera and take pictures of Hamilton Airport and show just how many buses and airplanes that's there.

Done! lol. Figured I could take pictures since I live close to the airport and is bored.

You can see a couple of airline tails at this picture
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/DCP_1357.jpg

The place was PACKED with buses and taxis
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/DCP_1349.jpg

Couple of Air Canada airplanes diverted to YHM, there starting flights to YHM finally next month.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/DCP_1353.jpg

News reporter on the site with special city buses to take some passengers to the GO station
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/dahammer/DCP_1354.jpg

I just now arrived back into London from Toronto....it was just an utter mess on the 401. I was about 10 minutes of east of pearson on the 401 when the crash occured and it was just standstill traffic forever....then they closed all the westbound lanes down and I had to take the 427 south down to the QEW to get out of the city. The smoke from the crash was just insane...you would think that all the passengers would've died, but i'm glad to hear they all got out before the plane exploded. I'm also surprised by the amount of coverage this is getting in the states considering no one died. As soon as I got home, I went to cnn and they have it all over the front page with a whole bunch of video links and stories about the crash.

AHAHA - that first picture of hamilton international is awesome, hi. Ahahaha wow.

EVERYONE IS OKAY! THIS IS A MIRACLE! OMG! Thank God everyone is fine!!!

These are the first shots of the burned out hull:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/sk8rboiiii/2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/sk8rboiiii/4.jpg

Its not a miracle at all that these people are alive. It is due to the hard work of the engineers that designed this plane and the crew that operated it today.

^ No, it's a miracle! I saw Mary Magdalene's face in the smoke cloud. :lol:

I bet the crash was not as bad as it seems be. The impact could not have been great judging from the outcome. The plane probably tipped and the wing hit the landing strip causing a lot of friction and sparks. The thought of lighting striking the plane sounds unlikely.
I wouldn't call this a miracle at all. Though the passengers had one hell of an experience...welcome to Canada folks!

lol

yo..I would call this a miracle. What if u were in that plane and u survived, you woulden't call it a miracle ? the plane was on fire

I bet the crash was not as bad as it seems be. The impact could not have been great judging from the outcome. The plane probably tipped and the wing hit the landing strip causing a lot of friction and sparks. The thought of lighting striking the plane sounds unlikely.
I wouldn't call this a miracle at all.

Not only is this a miracle, but it is in fact unprecedented. If up to about 50% of the passangers survived, maybe I'd agree it's about standard in this type of a situation. Smoke inhalation is obviously a serious culprit in these accidents, and the fact that everyone escaped just in the nick of time is completely unheard of.

From CNN.com:

NTSB: Most crashes survivable

From Mike M. Ahlers
CNN Washington Bureau
Wednesday, August 3, 2005 Posted: 0214 GMT (1014 HKT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The apparent successful evacuation of all 309 people aboard an Air France jetliner that crashed Tuesday in Toronto is a dramatic illustration of a theme that the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board has highlighted for years. (Full story)

Contrary to widespread public opinion, most airline accidents are survivable, the NTSB says.

"Fatal accidents ... receive extensive media coverage. Nonfatal accidents, however, receive little coverage. As a result, the public may perceive that most air carrier accidents are not survivable," the NTSB wrote in a March 2001 report.

Safety experts say that misperception is one reason passengers do not pay attention to the mandatory safety briefings at the beginning of every flight. The NTSB said it studied aircraft accident survivability to address that mistaken belief and identify factors that could further increase survivability.

According to the NTSB, there were 568 airline accidents from 1983 through 2000, 71 of which resulted in at least one fatality. Some 95.7 percent of the occupants survived those accidents. In raw numbers, 51,207 occupants survived; 2,280 died.

Accidents in which most or all passengers die, such as TWA Flight 800, which exploded in midair off New York's Long Island in 1996, account for a small percentage of all accidents, the NTSB study shows.

"Contrary to public perception, the most likely outcome of an accident is that most people survive," the report says.

The report attributes many factors as contributing to passenger's survivability: cabin structural integrity, seatbelts, seat design, child restraint systems, fireproofing, exit design and evacuation procedures.

The NTSB also has studied evacuation procedures on commercial planes. It studied 46 evacuations -- successful and unsuccessful -- involving 2,651 passengers between September 1997 and June 1999.

As a result of that study, it issued 20 safety recommendations and reiterated three other safety recommendations to the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration -- including making all newly certified commercial airplanes meet evacuation demonstration requirements.

Wednesday » August 3 » 2005

Experts long sought fix for perilous ravine
Bridge too expensive

Tom Blackwell
National Post

Wednesday, August 03, 2005

For decades, pilots have been pushing Toronto airport authorities to fill in or build a bridge across the ravine into which an Air France jet slid yesterday, bursting into flames.

A coroner's jury first recommended that a causeway be installed across the gully after a 1978 crash eerily similar to yesterday's mishap. In that incident, an Air Canada DC-9 aborted takeoff and ended up in the ravine, killing two passengers and injuring 105 others.

But the causeway was never built, with officials saying in 1980 that doing so would be prohibitively expensive.

In fact, a second runway was built within the past couple of years parallel to the one where the 1978 accident occurred, and the new route also ends just before the steep, 15-metre drop into Etobicoke Creek.

Charts used by most of the world's pilots when flying in to Pearson International Airport don't even show the ravine, said one airline pilot yesterday, asking not to be named. "So this crew would not be aware that the hazard exists," said the aviator.

Captain Bob Perkins, another pilot and an official with the Air Line Pilots Association, said his union and the International Federation of Airline Pilots Associations have never stopped pushing for the runway overrun to be extended across the ravine.

International civil aviation organization recommendations would also appear to require such an extension, he said.

"For a runway like that, there should be at the very least a 1,000-foot overrun area," said Capt. Perkins. "You kind of wonder, sometimes, [why it hasn't been built]."

In 1978, Air Canada Flight 189 plunged into the gully after aborting takeoff and skidding beyond the end of the runway. A tire had burst and pieces of it were sucked into one of the engines.

A Transport Canada report at the time blamed a number of factors, including the fact that the pilots did not apply the brakes soon enough after first noticing trouble. Air Canada later sued the manufacturer over the tire problem.

A coroner's jury recommended a causeway over the gully, an idea rejected by Transport Canada, which then managed the airport. A department official said in 1980 that it would be "an enormous expense," estimated by the government at $1.3-million in 1973 dollars.

The 1978 crash occurred on Runway 23 Left. The Air France plane was landing on Runway 24 Left, which runs parallel to 23 (now called 24 right) about 400 metres to the south.

Just beyond the end of both runways lies the creek and ravine.

Capt. Perkins said it is too early to say whether the ravine made the Air France mishap potentially more dangerous.

But, he said, "it certainly could be an issue, something I'm sure we'll be looking at in the context of the incident today."

The 1978 accident came less than a decade after what still rates as the worst crash in Pearson history.

All 109 passengers and crew died when pilots inadvertently deployed the spoilers while the plane was still airborne, causing the plane to fall toward the runway, wrecking one engine.

The crew tried to pull up and go around, but the plane exploded while circling for a landing. The accident was partly blamed on faulty design that allowed the spoiler handle to perform two different unrelated tasks -- lift to arm and pull to deploy.

WORST CRASHES IN CANADIAN HISTORY

SEPT. 3, 1998 A Swissair MD-11 jet flying to Geneva from New York crashes off the coast of Nova Scotia, killing all 229 people on board. Federal Transportation Safety Board investigators eventually blame a fire in the cockpit caused by faulty wiring and spread by flammable insulation.

DEC. 12, 1985 An Arrow Air DC-8 carrying American soldiers home for Christmas crashes while taking off in Gander, Nfld., killing all 256 on board. Investigators conclude the crash was likely caused by the crew's failure to de-ice the plane after a light spell of freezing rain.

JUNE 23, 1985 Air-India Flight 182 crashes into the Atlantic Ocean near the coast of Ireland en route to London from Montreal, killing all 329 on board. Investigators eventually conclude the crash was caused by a bomb, but the investigation into who is responsible spans nearly two decades and culminates in the acquittal earlier this year of Ripudaman Singh Malik and Ajaib Singh Bagri.

JULY 5, 1978 An Air Canada DC-8 jet crashes while

landing at Toronto International Airport, killing 109. The plane was en route to Los Angeles from Montreal. Some reports attributed the crash to a disagreement between the captain and co-pilot about when to deploy landing gear.

NOV. 29, 1963 A Trans-Canada Air Lines DC-8 jet crashes four minutes after takeoff from Montreal, killing 118 people. Several causes were considered, most of them mechanical.

AUG. 11, 1956 A Trans-Canada Air Lines North Start disappears en route to Calgary from Vancouver. The plane isn't discovered until May 13, 1957, on Mount Slesse in B.C. Sixty people are killed in the crash.

AND OTHER CLOSE CALLS:

MAY 26, 2003 A chartered Airbus A321 gets caught in a hail storm en route to Manchester from Cyprus. Lightning strikes the plane and hailstones as big as golf balls puncture its nose, but none of the 221 passengers are seriously injured.

SEPT. 15, 1999 A Boeing 757 splits in three after skidding off the runway while landing in torrential rain at an airport in northern Spain. All of the 236 passengers and nine crew on the Britannia flight from Wales survive.

AUGUST 13, 1996 A Learjet landing at a Royal Air Forces base in Northwest London en route from Spain overshoots the runway, tears through a fence and hits a van on the highway during rush hour. The passenger and two pilots, as well as the van driver, escape with minor injuries.

JULY 23, 1983 A Boeing 767 en route to Edmonton from Montreal runs out of fuel at 40,000 feet over Red Lake, Ont., forcing the pilots to "glide" to an air base in Gimli, Man. The near disaster stemmed from a faulty fuel gauge and a series of conversion errors by the pilots, which led them to believe (incorrectly) that they had enough fuel. No one was seriously injured. The plane became known as the Gimli Glider.

Source: CanWest News Service
© National Post 2005




Copyright © 2005 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest Global Communications Corp. All rights reserved.
Optimized for browser versions 4.0 and higher.

Has anyone seen the amazing Discaory Channel show "Mayday"?

Wednesday » August 3 » 2005
...
Tom Blackwell
National Post
...

For decades, pilots have been pushing Toronto airport authorities to fill in or build a bridge across the ravine into which an Air France jet slid yesterday, bursting into flames.

A coroner's jury first recommended that a causeway be installed across the gully after a 1978 crash eerily similar to yesterday's mishap. In that incident, an Air Canada DC-9 aborted takeoff and ended up in the ravine, killing two passengers and injuring 105 others.

But the causeway was never built, with officials saying in 1980 that doing so would be prohibitively expensive. ...

THANK GOODNESS THE CAUSEWAY WAS NEVER BUILT!
Yesterday's 'best case' outcome from the crash may have been a grand - sclaw disaster if the causeway was built, and the A340 slid all the way to and on to the 401 - THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A DISASTER!

tried my best, the morning was too dark to take a good pic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/CrazyCanuck07/DSCF0173.jpg

yeah you can just see the top of all that rubble...nice try

http://www.bjones4.dsl.pipex.com/AF358_3.jpg

http://www.bjones4.dsl.pipex.com/AF358_4.jpg

http://www.bjones4.dsl.pipex.com/AF358_2.jpg

http://www.bjones4.dsl.pipex.com/AF358_5.jpg

http://www.bjones4.dsl.pipex.com/AF358_6.jpg

Why any of you would try to play this down, I have no idea at all.

Let's just be elated- 309 people survived a horrible situation to be in- they got out just in the nick of time!

tried my best, the morning was too dark to take a good pic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/CrazyCanuck07/DSCF0173.jpg

I hope you weren't driving when you snapped that shot.

Rubber-neckers piss me off. Best-case scenario, when compounded they can slow traffic to a crawl; at worst, they can cause wrecks.

I work in an office building right at the end of the runway. The weather was insane (horizontal rain and massive lightning strikes) for about 5 minutes right about the time of the crash. The weather had been changing quickly all afternoon from heavy rain to sunny blue skies with in 5 minute periods. However, there was minimal wind until around 4:00pm. The weather changed so quickly I'm really not surprised the plane was cleared to land. Glad everyone is ok. Also glad there is no bridge else the plane may have slid right into our parking lot and over my car with me in it.

Horizontal rain? possibly vertical? lol

I was on SSC while it was raining on Tuesday.. and I never ever knew a plane woud crash on that very hour :laugh:

god 200 people dead thats horrible. can you imagine what their families feel.

everybody survived :weirdo:

yes everybody surviving was a miracle but i believe the inhilation of the smoke would be more dangerous than the actual crash...seeing as tho it was just a hard landing..nevertheless..i'm glad that there were only minor injuries

This is all that's left:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/sk8rboiiii/892370.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y162/sk8rboiiii/AF358-02a.jpg

Unbelievable!

I just heard that the NTSB of Canada does not have the software to download data from the "black box" or the other flight recorders on that Air France plane and that they have to be sent to France for that. Are we backward or are the French using some secret computer language? Or maybe it is a hardware issue to tap into them?

^ Why not send it to the U.S.? It's $30 and a UPS delivery truck away.

I'm just assuming it has to go to the Airbus headquarters or something.

From New York Times:

Going Down, but Not Dying, With the Ship


By MICHELINE MAYNARD
Published: August 7, 2005

AFTER an Air France jet skidded off a runway last week in Toronto and burst into flames, all 309 passengers got out alive.

The amazing thing is, their good fortune is not that unusual. Since 1999, passengers, crew and pilots have walked away from commercial jet crashes around the world at least a half-dozen times, with few injuries or deaths.

There were no deaths in a plane crash in Toronto last week.

And in the United States, of the 26 passenger jet accidents that took place from 1983 to 2000, 1,525 of the 2,736 passengers and crew, or 56 percent, survived, according to the National Transportation Safety Board, which investigates accidents.

It's hard to generalize about why some crashes are deadly and others not, said Arnold Barnett, professor of statistics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who has spent years studying plane crashes. The speed of the airplane, its weight and the angle at which it hits the ground - those and other factors could make the difference. Still, Mr. Barnett said, "as long as the landing is somewhat controlled, and doesn't take place in an irreversible plunge, it does seem like we have a very high survival rate."

Because of the danger of fire, one of the biggest elements in surviving a crash is knowing how to exit, experts said. "The seat back cards are there for a reason, and so are the flight attendant safety announcements," said Robert W. Mann Jr., an industry consultant based in Port Washington, N.Y. "The margin between a (miraculous?), safe evacuation and horrific tragedy can be mere seconds."

A well-trained crew may be even more important. Flight attendants and pilots hustled all the passengers off the Toronto plane in an estimated 90 seconds. Although she read the card of emergency instructions during the flight from Paris, one passenger, Lisa Popow, said the instructions she received from a flight attendant were more helpful in getting her off the plane.

Ms. Popow, 17, had instinctively thought to exit from the front of the jet, but saw flames in that direction. "It was good that she told us to come to the back, because of the danger," Ms. Popow said in an interview last week.

Bad weather seems to have played a role in nearly all the walk-away crashes of the past few years, including the one in Toronto.

In Gerona, Spain, in 1999, for example, a Britannia Air jet crashed next to the airport, after a storm knocked out the electricity that powered the airport's runway lights, making it impossible for the pilot to see the ground. The Boeing 757 charter jet full of vacationers bounced over a line of shrubbery after it hit the runway, then broke into three pieces when it hit the ground.

Nonetheless, all 236 people on board survived the crash, even though it took rescue crews 17 minutes just to find the wreckage, and an additional 53 minutes for them to evacuate the plane.

That same year, a jumbo jet operated by the Australian carrier Qantas slid off a runway after landing in a storm in Bangkok. All 409 people on board survived the crash, but it took unprepared rescue crews 90 minutes to get them off the plane, leaving them sitting in the dark in a driving rainstorm.

Still another storm-related crash occurred that year, when a China Air jet landed in horrible weather in Hong Kong. One wing struck the runway, breaking off as the plane caught fire and flipped over. Only two of the 315 on board were killed.

One passenger, Joemy Tam, told Radio Hong Kong that passengers found themselves strapped into seats that were hanging in the air. Two women, he said, were "lying on the ceiling."

These days, Mr. Mann said, collision-warning systems, excellent pilot training and strict government regulations have made flying so safe that pretty much the only problems occur at takeoff and landing.

There has not been a major jet accident in the United States since November 2001, when an American Airlines jet crashed shortly after takeoff from Kennedy Airport in New York, killing all 260 people on board.

In fact, Ms. Popow, the Air France passenger, said after her experience:

"The chances of a plane crash are very slim, and the chances of it happening twice are extremely slim. So I would get on a plane again."