I thought I would start off a new Elphinstone Place Construction thread since the one we had got deleted when the forum got hacked.

http://tinypic.com/9uor3r.jpg


When is construction due to start on this?

I DO like this tower. What's the progress on the planning app? Fully approved awaiting appointment of main contractors?

One of my concerns about delayed builds is that costs tend to rise more quickly than potential revenue over time and as such, profit margins get squeezed. And if they're not careful, squeezed to the point that it becomes uneconomic to build in it's present state...which gives rise to a revised planning app to reduce costs which means lower quality builds...

Any property experts out there care to explain this phenomena or am I talking out of my proverbial?

Good man ross - one of the forums most important threads reborn.

Magicrealist: Approved awaiting construction :)

As for the Construction start date? Who knows. The most up to date knowledge so far is that Elphinstone have shortlisted 5 contractors to build the structure, but I'm unaware whether the winner has been chosen yet.

Remember that the old Strathclyde Headquarters have still to be demolished, so construction on the actual skyscraper probably wont start now until next spring :(

But alas, we have plenty of montages to keep us going until then.....

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/401ElphinstonePlace_pic6.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/401ElphinstonePlace_pic10.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/Untitled-1.jpg

And some home made attempts:

Thanks to Russell for these outstanding montages:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/Glasgow_city_centrecopy.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/100_2641copy.jpg

A few done by me:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/Newviewlarge.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/Elpblackandwhite.jpg

I dont like the delay - starting to worry a bit to be honest...

great stuff Ross :) ... what a wonderful iconic addition this building will be to the Glasgow Skyline, this building will be seen from afar from all angles of the city its lens flare shinning will sparkle gloriously...lets hope Cheepside can match it with something as equaly wonderful. :)

here, here....

no news yet when demolision will start?

The only news is on the official elphinstone site which says that demolision should start in 2005 with construction starting in 2006. Hopefully they will get their finger out and get a move on :)

Oh dear. I have performed searches on Google, Yahoo and Alta Vista.

Absolutely no word on demolition or construction dates.

I may explode with fury if this keeps up for much longer. We've waited enough already, for God's sake!

Oh dear. I have performed searches on Google, Yahoo and Alta Vista.

Absolutely no word on demolition or construction dates.

I may explode with fury if this keeps up for much longer. We've waited enough already, for God's sake!

I wouldnt worry David - It will go up, just look at HCT in Birmingham, It was suppose to be a 600ft but its just scraped the 400ft mark, but at least its been built.

This one will come up before you know it. Feel sorry for us Brummies and Arena Central - when it was first proposed it would've been the tallest skyscraper in Europe :( Were still waiting for the revised masterplan

Cheers Brum Culture. I cant believe the fiasco surrounding Arena Central though! I genuinely do feel sorry for you guys down there being promised something as huge as that, and then having to wait for ever to see what actually happens, all the while finding out that the height just keeps on decreasing :(

HTC is lookin' pretty damn good, btw :)



Found this lurking around page 6 of the google search.

Its totally crap, mind, and so outdated it makes my head hurt.

http://www.elphinstoneplace.com/

Cheers Brum Culture. I cant believe the fiasco surrounding Arena Central though! I genuinely do feel sorry for you guys down there being promised something as huge as that, and then having to wait for ever to see what actually happens, all the while finding out that the height just keeps on decreasing :(

HTC is lookin' pretty damn good, btw :)




Yep 13 years is a damn long wait - ohwell next few weeks it should be released hopefully with a 135m+ tower :cheers:

Being 134m is it all residential or mixed? or does that include the spire?

We've just had a new 39 storey residential tower proposed, btu we havent a clue on how tall its likely to be. :dunno:

Thanks :cheers:

When I was driving back from Scotland on the M6, I sort of had to take a detour to see my old haunts, and have a peak at the the HCT tower - it looks good - almost Elphinstone-like except for the base!

Being 134m is it all residential or mixed? or does that include the spire?

We've just had a new 39 storey residential tower proposed, btu we havent a clue on how tall its likely to be. :dunno:

Thanks :cheers:
Its 134m to the roof - the spire in the renderings is actually a lazer beam/light beam coming from the top.

So its the full 440ft of skyscraper :):)

And yeah its mixed - 20 odd floors of offices, swimming pool in the base, lots of residential and (and this is the best bet for us) a restaurant/skybar on the 34th floor - bloody great!!

That's a nice-looking cluster coming along there. I particularly like that shot of the M8: with a proper cluster in place, it will look very much like an American downtown freeway (their motorways tend to go right through CBDs whereas ours nearly always by-pass: the M8 of course is an exception to this).

Them hills look beautiful as well, and I can imagine the city looking great from up there. :cheers:

Ta very much Pobbie.

Cant wait to see the cluster come into fruition myself. That is if I still havent lost my eyesight to old age by the time they actually finish it...

The dungeon inspired principle facade of the (ex) Strathclyde regional council HQ.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/gleegie2/Elphinstone.jpg

Just what IS that fenced off platform supposed to be?

Chaps some fairly good news - Elphinstone have built a new website, and have included some new stuff about Elphinstone Place. The new website is infinately better than the old one.


First off, the dates of proposed demolition of the old site and construction of the new have not changed. According to the site, Elphinstone are still waiting for permission to demolish the old Strathclyde head quarters. Scheduled for a 2005 demolition and a 2006 start.

------------------

And now for the new stuff. First off, a pdf comparing our little Elf to the worlds biggest 'scrapers and to the UK's buildings:

http://www.elphinstone.com/nmsruntime/saveasdialog.asp?lID=182&sID=345

------------------

And now, more interestingly so, they have produced an interactive Panorama of Glasgow with Elphinstone Place. It's ripe for a little montage in its own right - I'll try stick Elmbank into it. (Russell mate - you should give it a shot too - your last results were nothing short of Jaw-dropping). I don't like the colour of the tower in the picture, however:

http://www.elphinstone.com/web/site/Commercial/elphinstonePlace/elph_panorama.asp

------------------

Here is an interactive detailed breakdown of the component sections of the tower and its base. Can't wait to see the views from the 34th Floor Skybar/restaurant :happy:

http://www.elphinstone.com/web/site/Commercial/elphinstonePlace/elph_breakdown.asp

------------------

And finally, some of the previous renders, but enlarged for the new site:

http://www.elphinstone.com/web/MultimediaFiles/UNTITLED-9_large.jpg

http://www.elphinstone.com/web/MultimediaFiles/UNTITLED-8_large.jpg

http://www.elphinstone.com/web/MultimediaFiles/UNTITLED-11_large.jpg

------------------

So there you go. All the updates from the new site. Could this indicate that the ball is about to start rolling? I hope so....


The link to Elphinstone's Homepage (there is some stuff about the Elphinstone Village on it aswell): http://www.elphinstone.com/web/site/home/home.asp

Their old website was shockingly bad - it's good to see that've improved it. Also good that the schedule hasn't slipped and it's still go. Seems a bit funny that they would produce a drawing to show how tiny it is in the relative scheme of things - maybe to assuage fears that it would be overbearing?

Call me cynical...

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5941/elph29vm.jpg

Ayrshireman - enough!

Don't ruin the dream... :lol:

Sorry, I couldn't resist it! :)

Sorry, I couldn't resist it! :)

resistance is futile- you will be assimulated....

opps wrong forum!

And now, more interestingly so, they have produced an interactive Panorama of Glasgow with Elphinstone Place. It's ripe for a little montage in its own right - I'll try stick Elmbank into it. (Russell mate - you should give it a shot too - your last results were nothing short of Jaw-dropping). I don't like the colour of the tower in the picture, however:

Im not even sure how to save that image David?
Your right though the tower does seem a bit dull and flat in that render.
I might try a wee drawing without all the multis that are for the chop.

Im not even sure how to save that image David?
Your right though the tower does seem a bit dull and flat in that render.
I might try a wee drawing without all the multis that are for the chop.
Here you are my good man. A cheeky use of the "Print Screen" button and i bit of enlargement later and hazza:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/Elphpano.jpg

Its a pretty pish base picture though - bland and low res...

So is this to be built then and when?

So is this to be built then and when?
As it says at the start of this thread, it is approved to be built.

Demolition of the buildings on the site of Elphinstone Place should begin soon, and construction of Elph will begin early/mid 2006.

Hmmmmmm......

David, The Boy - are you drunk, or just feeling inarticulate?

David, The Boy - are you drunk, or just feeling inarticulate?
As usual maccoinnich, a lurvely mix of both.... :happy:


Nah I ain't drunk, I'm just mildly frustrated by the lack of progress with good ol' Elphy boy. I find it incredible that even after 3/4 of a year after it was granted approval, absolutely nothing has happened. I know this is serious business - £100 million is a shed load of money for a city like Glasgow, but you would think that the city would be desperate to get the ball rolling with such a prestigious development.

This skyscraper gives Jonny(International)Six-Pack something to connect Glasgow with, even if he's just passing through.



Acch it's no use though - this rant has been produced by 10 other forumers 100 times before (including me). Ain't gona make any difference...


Unless Elphinstone are reading this and agree with me whole-heartedly..... :)

Since its a Big Building i thought i'd put up a Big Montage it deserves lol.

i think start dates will be early january.
who done the pencil drawing BTW?.. i think it was one of the forumers as far as i recall a while back. :) its a lovely illustration whoever done it.



http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7550/elphinstoneplmon3gs.jpg

Since its a Big Building i thought i'd put up a Big Montage it deserves lol.

Is the size of your montages proportional to the size of the building then? We're screwed if, say, a 60 floor building is ever proposed...

Now, I'm eager as everybody else to see this be built, but, is it just me, or do the room arrangements in that plans look a little awkward? Of course, this only affects those who live there, but they just don't look particularly well arranged or convincing. Anyhow. Think of the views though...

Nice one M_Riaz - usual high standard of montagery (mon-taj-er-ie) :D

The pencil drawing was done by Russell(1) - it's absolutely awesome.



Early January isn't so bad. But grrrrr, I wanted this b-hatch to be finished by the time I finished Uni.. fat chance of that happening now..

That is absolutely stunning pencil sketch (calling it a 'sketch' just doesn't seem to do it justice!). Really amazing - fantastic job Russell.

And it shows the Eagle building - my favourite office block in Glasgow.
While we're talking about big buildings - does anyone have the lastest on Elmbank?

(mon-taj-er-ie) LOL i was looking that word up david is there such a word ?
or did you just make it up. :)

Me, the 7th Earl of Rochester, make up a word? With my reputation? Well yes actually, I did. Carry on. (God I loved the Fast Show - they don't make comedy like that any more :(). Glad you liked it though...


Chief I emailed zm architects a few months back, but the weren't willing to give me any details or dates. I think that it has been submitted for planning permission (again - obviously it's previous, 17 story incarnation was approved shortly before the complete redesign). I reckon if it has been submitted then we should hear about it around March(ish).

Too long, if you ask me. The schematics of Elmbank look stunning, the development is even more adventurous than Elphinstone, and the cladding sounds superb :)

We shall have to wait and see.... One thing is for sure, with Alan bringing Cheapside back into the picture, things could get very interesting over the next year or so...

May i just ask, what tower is closest to the height of this on? I mean like proposed or approved, not completed. Thanks mates.

Thanks for the update dude... much appreciated.

(Let's see if I can avoid starting another fight here).

May i just ask, what tower is closest to the height of this on? I mean like proposed or approved, not completed. Thanks mates.
Hey man there are two towers close to Elphinstone Place in terms of height.

The first is the planned Dalmarnock Tower that should be situated in the East End of Glasgow. It is estimated that the tower will be about 42 storys tall and stand at 143m (470ft) which would make it 30ft taller than Elphinstone Place.


The second is the proposed Elmbank Tower(s) situated in Charing Cross. The tower should sit in front of the Premier Lodge hotel, about 300 yards away from Elphinstone Place (will create a nice cluster hopefully).
Elmbank comprises of 2 towers - a 28 story, 107.5m (352ft) cylindrical tower and a 17 story, ~50m (~160ft) tower joined on to it.


So those are the 2 main towers that rival Elphinstone in terms of height, but there is also a ~100m (315ft) tower proposed near Glasgow's exhibition centre as part of a new "Urban Village"


The tallest tower in Glasgow at present is the Glasgow Science Centre Tower at 133m (436ft), but this is only an observation tower (tourist attraction).


I hope that answers your question mate - for a comprehensive run-down on all of Glasgow's projects go to Gleegieboy's fantasic site, http://www.futureglasgow.co.uk/ for everything you could ever need to know about the city and it's proposals :)


--------------


No worries Chief - and you can start as many fights as you like - I'm up fer a gid rumble ma sel', ya baas :bash: :):)

Are we exited about Elphinstone Tower, Place... whatever..... because of the height of it or because of it's Architecture.

I see that a few of the Computer generated images on this thread show the tower looking slightly different.

In some the wrap around at the top is pronounced, in others it seems to be a silhouette behind a glazed barrel.

In some images the tower looks to have irregular thickness, in others it looks uniform.

In some images there seems to be a mast, in others there is not.

I know that the Architects - Cooper Cromar have played around with this tower(s) for the last three years like kids in a kindergarden discovering plasticine. Is there a fixed image yet?

Do we like the height or do we do we like the Architecture? Or in fairness, is it too early to judge?

Its the height, we have to keep up appearences...

Oh Vlad get over yourself... we are excited because it's a big development in a prominent place with a prominent design. Sorry we don't all get erect over shoddy 60's tripe.

jeezoh as ma grannie says!

Oh Vlad get over yourself... we are excited because it's a big development in a prominent place with a prominent design. Sorry we don't all get erect over shoddy 60's tripe.

:lol: :lol: Jeezoh back! Dont overreact and take all my words too seriously Crusty, come on, Ive no complaints about this one...

Though weve yet to see how shoddy this one is ;)

Hey man there are two towers close to Elphinstone Place in terms of height.

The first is the planned Dalmarnock Tower that should be situated in the East End of Glasgow. It is estimated that the tower will be about 42 storys tall and stand at 143m (470ft) which would make it 30ft taller than Elphinstone Place.


The second is the proposed Elmbank Tower(s) situated in Charing Cross. The tower should sit in front of the Premier Lodge hotel, about 300 yards away from Elphinstone Place (will create a nice cluster hopefully).
Elmbank comprises of 2 towers - a 28 story, 107.5m (352ft) cylindrical tower and a 17 story, ~50m (~160ft) tower joined on to it.


So those are the 2 main towers that rival Elphinstone in terms of height, but there is also a ~100m (315ft) tower proposed near Glasgow's exhibition centre as part of a new "Urban Village"


The tallest tower in Glasgow at present is the Glasgow Science Centre Tower at 133m (436ft), but this is only an observation tower (tourist attraction).


I hope that answers your question mate - for a comprehensive run-down on all of Glasgow's projects go to Gleegieboy's fantasic site, http://www.futureglasgow.co.uk/ for everything you could ever need to know about the city and it's proposals :)


--------------


No worries Chief - and you can start as many fights as you like - I'm up fer a gid rumble ma sel', ya baas :bash: :):)
Thanks mate. I wish I went on the observation tower when I visited past summer

cheers chief and Riaz :okay:

In some images there seems to be a mast, in others there is not.

Its a beam of light, i made the same mistake
hope they keep this little detail.

Are we exited about Elphinstone Tower, Place... whatever..... because of the height of it or because of it's Architecture.

I see that a few of the Computer generated images on this thread show the tower looking slightly different.

In some the wrap around at the top is pronounced, in others it seems to be a silhouette behind a glazed barrel.

In some images the tower looks to have irregular thickness, in others it looks uniform.

In some images there seems to be a mast, in others there is not.

I know that the Architects - Cooper Cromar have played around with this tower(s) for the last three years like kids in a kindergarden discovering plasticine. Is there a fixed image yet?

Do we like the height or do we do we like the Architecture? Or in fairness, is it too early to judge?
Sorry Socceroo I meant to answer your question earlier.


I like this tower for a great deal of reasons.

First off I think it looks awesome. Admittedly questions have been asked about the base of the scraper, but IMO the whole structure just oozes the sort of quality we should come to expect of developments around that area.

The height is perfect. The glass facade and tower design is perfect. The positioning is more than perfect.

From the Kingston Bridge it will be a towering symbol of Glasgow, from the canyon section of the M8 it will be an immense glass monument towering over the busy traffic below.


Everything about this tower is bang on, although I did have a soft spot for the Trinty Tower incarnation before Elphinstone Place.


Me? Enthusiastic?....

Pity its not a bit taller though, everything going up in England seems to be a good 50m taller, maybe they could revise the height :rant:

Pity its not a bit taller though, everything going up in England seems to be a good 50m taller, maybe they could revise the height :rant:
Afraid not champ - as it is, Elphy will stand only 1 ft below Glasgow Airport's radar ceiling. So going any taller at that particular position and elevation is not possible (for now.......)

Everything about this tower is bang on, although I did have a soft spot for the Trinty Tower incarnation before Elphinstone Place.

aye i agree with you david although i like Elpninstone trinity got to me too, i was sorry it never went ahead... if it were up to me i would have opted for the TRINITY. :)

Nah, Trinity had this postmodern skyscraper look about that is very common everywhere, and I don't like much at all. Elphinstone has a simple, well thought out, chic, sexy appeal to it.

Trinity reminded me too much of some of the stuff that's gone up in Dubai... which would've pissed me off because instead of glorious sunshine and warmth we get pissing rain and cold!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/Glasgow_city_centrecopy.jpg

What a fantastic render this is,, i really hope this get built :)

Aye its a cracker - credit to John Glenday for the picture and Russell Davies for adding in that beast :)

So, I was bored on a very long ScotRail journey home yesterday, and I picked up a free copy of "Insider: Scotland's Business Magazine", which interestingly enough, had a section on commercial property.

Anyway, taken from the profile of Ken Ross, chairman of Elphinstone:

Elphinstone's next commercial proejct is a 150,000 sq ft of Grade A office next to the flagship Elphinstone Place residential tower - still currently due to be Scotland's tallest building. Demolition of the former Strathclyde Regional Council offices is scheduled to commence in February. Ross confirms he is in discussions about 'naming rights' with a potential funder of the the office development.

Early January does it start? Cool, not long...

great news about having a date scheduled for the strathclyde offices' demolition. let's hope it means things will get a move on upwards too, i can't wait for it to grow! was in birmingham after hct had topped out in march and whatever you think of the tower, it looks huge and really imposing, especially from the leaner side angle. and elf will be taller! glad that the thinner end is facing the front - it'll look huge from the motorway and i hope will be lit to some extent 'cos it'll look amazing at night time :)

That's good news. But we have to remember that it'll still be a very, very long time before we actually start to see this building rise. Excavation of the basements & carparks, all the foudnations and other stuff that happens below grade always takes ages. Once the building finally starts to rise, I'm sure it'll climb very quickly. But that stage may be a year or more away yet. :(

Ah brilliant news!

About bloody time.


Can't wait to be there when they knock down those shite old council buildings :happy:

I was browsing some of the world forums, and came across a picture that I think gives a really good idea of how Glasgow will look with a great big tower jutting in to the flat skyline. Good as the renders we already have are, I always have in the back of my mind that it's not the real thing.

Sorry for the hugeness of the pic, but it really did remind of how Glasgow might look in a couple of years:

Montparnasse, Paris:

http://gregindie.perso.cegetel.net/appart/5.jpg

I like the Javel area just to the west of the Eiffel Tower, nice packed cluster of towers there. Thats just what needs to tower over the M8 :)

http://www.cmolter.de/images/parisbild01.jpg

Item 3D demolition of Strathclyde House 3/4/11 to make way for Elphinstone Tower. :)

http://www.glasgowcitycouncil.co.uk/committee_minutes/public/extdocviewtop.asp?CID=1826&DATE=25/01/2006&TIME=11:30&DAY=Wednesday&PAGE=1


Glasgow City Council
Development and Regeneration Services (Property) Sub-Committee
Report by Director of Development and Regeneration Services
Contact: Jim Lindsay Ext: 78483
Progress Report on the disposal of Strathclyde Houses 3, 4 & 11
Purpose of Report:
1. To advise Committee on progress made on the redevelopment proposals for the vacant offices at SH3, 4 & 11.
2. To seek approval to regulate the detailed terms of the Advance Demolition Agreement which constitutes part of the conditional contract between the Council and the Elphinstone Group for the sale of the property.
Recommendations:
That the Sub-Committee:
• Notes the progress made to date in securing the redevelopment of Strathclyde Houses 3,4 and 11.
• Authorises the Director of Development and Regeneration Services to implement and
finalise the terms of the Advance Demolition Agreement to facilitate redevelopment of the buildings at this location.
Ward No(s): 17 - Anderston

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5461/elphinstoneplmap1rs.jpg

ADVANCE DEMOLITION AGREEMENT
Securing an early demolition benefits both parties. From the Council’s point of view it will remove buildings which are in poor condition, and a drain on the Council’s Office Accommodation budget. At present the annual cost to the Council of maintaining the buildings in terms of maintenance, rates etc. is circa £200,000. From Elphinstone’s viewpoint it allows them to accelerate their Development Programme with the benefit of a cleared site rather than would be the case if demolition were delayed until all the pre-conditions for development were to be purified. The conditional missives between the Council and Elphinstone currently provides for payment to the Council by Elphinstone of a refundable deposit of 10% of the purchase price, namely £801,650, when three of the pre-conditions have been purified (namely Lands Tribunal aspects, termination of sub-station leases and traffic regulation orders). It is proposed that if an early demolition arrangement is agreed to and proceeds, no such deposit will be payable by Elphinstone and instead Elphinstone will absorb the whole costs of demolition. In the event that the demolition proceeds and the development does not ultimately proceed the Council will be obliged to take back the site with buildings demolished and pay to Elphinstone the sum £801,650 being a sum equivalent to the 10% deposit. Committee should note that the tender cost to Elphinstone of carrying out the demolition are however in excess of £1 million, and they would remain fully responsible for funding the excess between the final cost and the 10% deposit price. The basis of this proposal was previously agreed between the former Director of Development and Regeneration Services, the former Director of Financial Services and Elphinstone Ltd.
At this time, discussions continue between the Council’s solicitor and Elphinstone’s legal representatives on the detailed terms and conditions of the Advance Demolition Agreement.

Great news... cheers mate.

I know it's still early doors and all that... but it's a bit worrying that they don't even have permission to start demolition yet - look like another few months of waiting.

Plus, there's still the possibility that the tower will never happen.

awww god, as per usual on this forum pessimism (if thats how ye spell it!) why dont we look on the bright side of things for the once?!?!

that lovely new Etap hotel is just about to begin being built and CHQ may even start soon too! nah really there is a lot to be looking forward to, Elphinstone Pl, which WILL get built, it will i say!!....and GH2o - which btw is quite clever, ye know h2o and its being by the sea and all...hardeehar...and my personal favourite, the dixon street tower, which btw does anyone ken whats going on there??

and sorry i havent posted in a while, i have been keeping up with whats been happening though, although some of the debates on here are a bit deep for a wee boy like maself ye know.

Hmmmmm - it's good news to a point, I suppose...


Seriously though - this tower just has to go ahead! I have been more irrational in my support of Elphinstone Place than of any other project in Glasgow, big or small. And so to see it taking so long for anything to happen is just killing me!



For now, have a look at this view, and then imagine it with Elphinstone AND Elmbank. Mwwwgggauuugh

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/park-circus.jpg

:drool:

Glasgow Herald, Yesterday - Confirms Demolition of old SRC buildings will commence next month!

Also, Elphinstone as a company in a fairly healthy financial position which hopefully should give them added confidence to press the button.

Nice one Gerome - great news!

And Welcome to the the Forum :)

gah, I was looking for this site yesterday, mind I only really stayed in the retail core, just getting acquainted so to speak ;)

Which way would you head from Queen St station to get to this site? I recognise some of the surrounding buildings in the render, but I'm still lost I'm afraid!

cheers

from Queen St head down to St Vincent St and then walk west until you come to the M8... you cant miss it :)

According to an article last week in the Herald Newspaper, demolition of the existing building on the site is to start next month, with construction to be complete sometime in 2008.

Thanks mrglasgow - slightly old news (see above), but good news none the less! 2008 is a long way away, mind you...

Welcome to the forums :)

Was just reading in ET that the Strathclyde regional council HQ will be given the Glasgow multi coloured floodlighting treatment before it bites the dust next month, should look pretty impressive :)

Thank you posters for keeping us all up to date with Elphinstone Place progress.
Projects like this are often subject to some delays...but once the way is clear construction will be business-like. Time is money.
Elmbank should be here soon too.
PS A third of all Scots live in the Greater Glasgow area.

Your welcome Longstreet :)

I hope your right with the construction - Leed's tallest building, Bridgewater House stood untouched for a couple of months, only the core (built all the way to the top ( 110m )) had been finished at the time....

And Elmbank is coming, just a matter of time :)

Regeneration Switch On
Tuesday 21 February 2006

From the Construction News email

A spectacular, multi-coloured floodlighting scheme will illuminate Glasgow's night sky to signal the beginning of a major regeneration project at the city's Charing Cross area.

Each night from dusk until one o'clock in the morning from today until Sunday, the installation will flood the former Strathclyde Regional Council offices on the corner of St Vincent Street and India Street with a series of colours before they are demolished to make way for Scotland's tallest building, Elphinstone Place.

Elphinstone, the Glasgow-based property developers who are constructing the 39-storey Elphinstone Place, have commissioned Scottish-based, Irish artist Jim Buckley to illuminate the facades of the buildings with 25 computer controlled lights normally used for major rock concerts.

The lighting project, called FADE, is being officially switched on by Cllr Steven Purcell, Leader of Glasgow City Council, at a private view next week.

Ken Ross, Chief Executive of Elphinstone, said: "We're delighted to be working in partnership with the council on Elphinstone Place - a landmark for Scotland and an innovation building which will become recognised internationally. We are investing over £1m in the demolition process alone.

"We wanted to mark the fading of the past with an inspiring and powerful display of light that will take us into an exciting and rejuvenated future."

Jim Buckley who designed the lighting installation said: "I felt that the title FADE was ideal for a number of reasons. The lights will have a softening effect and almost wrap the building in light as one colour slowly fades to another. This work also reflects the changes that will take place on the site as the former use, history and memories will fade as the building is demolished and Elphinstone Place begins to establish its own identity and presence on the site."

its good to finally see this one get off the ground.. its a good and as of yet original design which is good

is there any sign of this development putting confidence in similar developments up there?

Ah brilliant news!

About bloody time.


Can't wait to be there when they knock down those shite old council buildings :happy:

Boy David's comment of 19/12/05 concurs entirely with my [and I think most others's] view of the shitey old council buildings. Why are we spending money on illuminating this crap prior to demolition? I would rather see the money spent on a few more tonnes of explosives to make sure!

In terms of timescales for this job my view would be as follows:-
Completion of demolition - Aug 2006
Main Contractor Start Aug 2006
Complete Substructure - Dec 2006
Complete Structure - Dec 2007
Complete External Envelope - July 2008
Handover [not that we're bothered after the envelopes done]- Feb 2009
Still good going though as this converts to an average monthly spend of over £2.5m per month which is hefty for central Scotland.

I would rather see the money spent on a few more tonnes of explosives to make sure!
:D


Shame that we're still a long way off seeing it rise I suppose, but as they say, good things come to those who wait.....




Woodhousen, as of yet, only two other truely mixed use towers are in the pipeline. Proposed (nearly ready for approval) is the 107.5m Elmbank tower, and in the pre-planning stages we have the 143m Dalmarnock Tower.

So we are looking at a few "skyscrapers", but we have 4 more 25-30 story towers approved or proposed, so it's looking quite good :)

I'm with Gerome on this one.
I saw this sorry-arsed slum all lit up last night....it happened to be the night Villarreal and their fans were in the city for the game with Rangers. All the people on the M8 coming back from Ibrox could hardly have missed this sight. Spanish fans probably now think we proudly light up crumbling crap as a matter of course. Oh happy day when it finally goes.

:D


Shame that we're still a long way off seeing it rise I suppose, but as they say, good things come to those who wait.....




Woodhousen, as of yet, only two other truely mixed use towers are in the pipeline. Proposed (nearly ready for approval) is the 107.5m Elmbank tower, and in the pre-planning stages we have the 143m Dalmarnock Tower.

So we are looking at a few "skyscrapers", but we have 4 more 25-30 story towers approved or proposed, so it's looking quite good :)

and trust me, from experience it is good to have a small number of firm proposals than a massive amount of pie in the sky proposals...

has that Dalmarnock tower actually been unveilled yet. last i heard it was nothing more than a reference in an article with no pictures or anything?

alright guys, anyone got a photo of the floodlighting yet? be nice to see it before the demolition begins :)

be nice to see it before the demolition begins

Believe me, I was thinking the same thing. That is, until I drove past it the other night. What a waste of money - lighting up a fugly building that's about to be torn down!

I know it's supposed to signify Glasgow's ongoing regeneration, blah blah blah - whatever. It look stupid and crap. Gah.

There. Glad I got that out of my system! :)

fair enough man! here's to the rise of its replacement then :cheers:

I just saw the old strathclyde council building lighting scheme today as I came over the Kingston Bridge. God it's Hideous! When I drove past it was a vile sickly greenish yellow colour.:puke: I thought it was supposed to change colour?

Its big, its shiny, it doesnt hit the ground with any grace and its remarkably uninteresting. Interesting thing actually, i was trying to think how many interesting tall buildings there were and i suspect there are really quite few. There is a lot of SOM or Pelli or Johnson tripe but few genuinely challenging and interesting skyscrapers. Obviously we have Mies, we have the HK&S bank and the Gherkin (as much as i find Foster's work increasingly fatuous). Of the top of my head i can think of very few that are genuinly exciting. The Torre Agbar i dont mind, but it is indicative of what tall buildings are about and their architectural limitations. Its about getting a decent profile and wrapping a reasonably interesting skin around it. Of course that sounds more simple than it actually is but mostly its all about extruded floorplates with a nice shiny coat and thats all Elphinstone is.

Yeah, but a big part of the 'appeal' of skyscrapers isn't necessarily in their funkyness/aesthetics as it is in their sheer bulk and size. I don't mean that in a 'OMG I love big huge tall shiny buildings' fanboy way, but as someone who actually just appreciates skyscrapers for their sheer size and the ingenuity that goes in to man building something so big.

Of course, that doesn't mean they shouldn't make an effort to look nice, but it's very hard to make something that size both interesting and elegant. Quite often the beauty comes about through simplicity of design rather than trying to make it overly clever/complex.

What else do you want from Elphinstone? What would you have done if you were the architect on it?

Yeah, but a big part of the 'appeal' of skyscrapers isn't necessarily in their funkyness/aesthetics as it is in their sheer bulk and size. I don't mean that in a 'OMG I love big huge tall shiny buildings' fanboy way, but as someone who actually just appreciates skyscrapers for their sheer size and the ingenuity that goes in to man building something so big.

Of course, that doesn't mean they shouldn't make an effort to look nice, but it's very hard to make something that size both interesting and elegant. Quite often the beauty comes about through simplicity of design rather than trying to make it overly clever/complex.

What else do you want from Elphinstone? What would you have done if you were the architect on it?

Thats very tricky to say but to my mind you need to think of skyscrapers in a very simplistic and graphic way and thats about their profile above anything else, whether that is through slenderness or shape. Elphinstone does neither really. It doesnt do quite enough with the top and with that floorplate its really not quite tall enough (something to do with it appearing on radar if it was any taller i beleive) to be slender.

On the other hand you could go for something very simple and elegant with a nicely detailed skin. Again it misses the mark. The plan form is too articulated and the cladding looks to be pretty conventional though in detailed design that might improve.

I think the principle of a tall building there is fairly sound though and it will improve a part of the town blighted by the likes of the Hilton but something so tall and significant should really have been world class.

blighted by the likes of the Hilton

I love the Hilton! Maybe big AD was right about you all along.... hmmm....

I think you couldn't be further off the mark here outofchaosaworld.

For a start, I really like the Hilton too, but thats not really important.


Elphinstone Place is spot on in my opinion. I have already explained why in this thread, and so I'm not going to go over it all again. But if you were looking for a world class master piece akin to foster's gherkin or the likes, then you have seriously misjudged the situation.

Glasgow is not London, New York, Hong Kong etc etc. As a city we do not yet deserve iconic architecture on a World Scale. That is not to say that the architects shouldn't try their best, of course, but I feel you have set the bar far too high here.


So the base isn't ideal, but the tower is an understated beauty.

It's funny, I would have said the way it hits the ground was particularly adept, the tear drop profile is unique and the way it is angled to "point" at the motorway works, the public artwork and foyer is overly generous in a scheme of this type. You can boil all architecture down to floorplates.

I would only agree that glass curtain walling is becoming overcommon, unless you do something new with it, glass that refracts light differently dependant on the angle of the sun for instance. Glasgow to my mind demands more masculine material, ideally stone and metals.

and, yes an odd (I presume deliberate) choice of target. I guess you refer to its antiurban design, ironic given that it's the most urban location in the city, doublly ironic that Elphinstone will go a good way to correcting it.

[QUOTE=The Boy David]

Glasgow is not London, New York, Hong Kong etc etc. As a city we do not yet deserve iconic architecture on a World Scale. That is not to say that the architects shouldn't try their best, of course, but I feel you have set the bar far too high here.

[QUOTE]

No harm in trying though. Look at Newcastle it has the angel of the north and the millenium bridge. The angel of the north has certainly recieved alot of attention on a world scale. - if I remember it was on the front page of the new york times ( or something similar ) on the first day of the new millenium.

Glasgow is not London, New York, Hong Kong etc etc. As a city we do not yet deserve iconic architecture on a World Scale. That is not to say that the architects shouldn't try their best, of course, but I feel you have set the bar far too high here.

That's most ridiculous statement I've ever read on here, and all the more surprising as it's from someone who normally stands as the voice of reason. Even ignoring Glasgow's built heritage (Mackintosh, Thomson, Hamilton, Burnett, Salmon, G,K&C, etc, etc), and that there are some very good firms working there at the moment (Elder & Cannon, Gareth Hoskins, GM+AD), the idea that Glasgow doesn't deserve good architecture is just a little... odd. Why on earth not? At what point does it gain the right to good design? Frankly, plenty of new architecture in London is utter crap. Barring the really famous skyscrapers of New York, plenty of them are utterly mediocre.

Is Elphinstone Place going to one of the worlds great, canonical buildings? No. And I'm sure even Coopar Cromar would admit that if they were feeling candid. But will it make a positive impact on the city, and the area around it? Certainly. Doesn't make it above criticism though. Personally I look forward to seeing finished.

Oh, and the Hilton is shit. Officially. Says me.

To be fair maccoinnich, you're right to have picked up on what I said. But I think the problem is more the way in which I phrased my last post.

I don't mean to say that Glasgow doesn't deserve world class architecture. I merely mean that in it's current state, the city is not ready for something truly groundbreaking.

And you are quite right - even if you do ignore Glasgow's heritage (which is of an incredibly high standard for the most part), we do have some awesome practices in the city, all of whom are producing outstanding work. But looking back to days gone by, the architectural extravagance of the some of the city's finest buildings were included to reflect the wealth of the city at that time. Once 2nd city of the empire, Glasgow could throw money at it's public works because it was a rich, productive and important world city.

Now, Glasgow is still only a shadow of it's past glory. Sure, it's heart and soul are still present, but in terms of world importance, it's been scratched right off the map.

And so there is a reason why cities like Glasgow are not yet ready for radical architecture. If there wasn't, Foster wouldn't have pulled out of the SECC arena (or would have done a better job in the first place), and Zahid wouldn't have pulled out of the Transport Museum. Elphinstone Place is a stepping stone (hopefully) to greater things. In London, first came Tower 42, then came the Gherkin.

Glasgow needs to re-establish itself on a higher stage before it is ready for truly landmark architecture.

I hope I'm right in saying that GM+AD's Cheapside proposal will be another major stepping stone in this process.

But Boy David,

Surely landmark architecture is part of the process of Glasgow re-establishing itself on a higher stage.

Look what the Guggenheim did to Bilbao.

yeh whats up with the Hilton? Always thought it was a pretty tidy form, quite chunky looking, even if it does look as if its been hoisted right outa Texas lol

Surely landmark architecture is part of the process of Glasgow re-establishing itself on a higher stage.

Look what the Guggenheim did to Bilbao.
Thats a good point murdomac.

But surely that is the roll of our new transport museum/concert arena?


Elphinstone Place will be a landmark, yes, but a 440ft "skyscraper" (hardly) does not have the same influence as an important public building like the Guggenheim - the two buildings are too different to be compared.

I would certainly agree that you cannot compare Bilbao's Guggenheim with Elphinstone Place........up to a point!

What the main point was the principle of landmark architecture.

That is....................should a city be "world class" before it can have landmark buildings or does it need land mark buildings before it can be world class?

You appeared to subscribe to the former view while I was making the case for the latter.

Meanwhile if we do not look out Glasgow will slip further behind the likes of Manchester.

Where is big Alan when you need him? Or OutofChaos or simplyred. Or indeed Sandy Cromar himself!

You would think that more than just an odd architect or two would engage in these debates. Especially as the exchange of views are carried out in such a friendly good natured manner.

By the way where is Vladimir these days?

woah hold on a minute murdomac, I think I've made myself clear on these matters, you don't set out declaring you're going to create a world class piece of architecture, so many things that you don't have control of can happen. Invariably, those that do state that as an objective, fail.

You just always strive to be challenging and put in the effort to make it the best it can be, no matter what the project or location or city. That's where my opinion differs greatly from someone like outofthisworldcomessomeonewhoquackslikeaduck.

I am staying clear of the Elphinstone debate because I don't particularly think it's a challenging enough or beautiful tower and would have nothing very positive to say as a consequence ......... but that's not to think it would not be good for the city. I think it will be.

and of course we deserve world class architecture, just few cities actually achieve it but we already have a world class building in the Burrell, just not a skyscraper, not yet.

Thanks Alan,

You think that Elphinstone Place will be good for the city but it could be even better if it was designed better. That is fair. Better to have something significant that is flawed than nothing at all.

Let's keep our fingers that it will happen.

Alan, is there really a need to be so childish about it? Differences of opinion and arguing your point is all well and good, but treating other with such little respect and resorting to childish name calling and 'I know who you are' comments really isn't neccesary.

Yes, your reputation and what you and your firm have achieved is to be admired, but I have to say I'm disappointed in your attitude on here of late.

Meanwhile if we do not look out Glasgow will slip further behind the likes of Manchester.


Interesting comparison. I rather think that Glasgow is currently slightly behind Manchester but that is partly a function of where each is city is on the curve of post-industrial redevelopment. Glasgow has been at it for some time longer and as such we have suffered from a lot of building being done in the 80s where timidity reigned stylistically. Manchester has started to really reinvent itself only fairly recently and as such the change has been quite startling. There is a real confidence there and big projects to match that.

We are on the verge of another significant phase of development in Glasgow though and that will serve to alter the character of the city. Mostly for the good based on what is currently being proposed though most of the work is being undertaken on the fringes of the city. Manchester's recent redevelopment is to a degree more visible.

Of course we have had the very excellent public realm works on Buchanan Street but i do feel the city centre could do with a shot in the arm. The most obvious targets are George Square and St Enoch Square (oh to get rid of that horrid shopping centre). With real ambition major redevelopment of both Argyle Street and Sauchiehall Street should also be considered. Both are major streets suffering from the migratation of retail away and are for the most part pretty shoddy.

Accch well guys - this is one topic that we'll just have to rest on until we see the finished product.

Personally, I can't wait.

Any building, irrespective of its form, function or typology, is ultimately derived from all of the circumstances surrounding its gestation, whether that is the brief, budget, site, planning restrictions, bloody narrow mindedness, practice capability or any other determining factor (or any other combination) that you may care to think of. In many ways, they are both hostages to fortune as well as one-off prototypes.

Will Alsop aside, I do not think that any architect sets out to do bad buildings. Unfortunately, the succesful delivery of a building, whether it is one which is ultimately applauded, slated or seen to be merely middle of the road, is a direct consequence of these external factors, and only to be truly appreciated when the final result is there for all to see.

And of course it is right we should aspire to do they very best that we can with every project or opportunity we receive in order to influence and improve both the built environment and the quality of people's lives, but I also believe that it is naive to think that every building could or should be world class. (Many could simply be better!)

We should also be wary and avoid the 'sexy light flare Photoshoped' CGI and other imagery that in many instances does nothing more that put many proposals on a pedestal, which in reality they often fail to live up.

Elphinstone Place may not ultimately be considered an equal alongside many of the great and the good skyscrapers either built, under construction or proposed elsewhere in the world, but that shouldn't prevent it being a good thing, either for Glasgow or for Scotland.

Elph construction? We are now in mid March and that bloody awful sorry-arsed slum is still gaping at me every time I'm on the M8. For psychological reasons I need to see building come down very soon.

See what I mean? I'm so at the end of the rope my syntax is all shot to hell. I missed the word "that" in my last post.

well I'm disappointed chief that you should feel like that , perhaps if you read the posts more carefully you'd understand. Soccerroo picked it up right away.

Now to remind you, this is what I wrote:

"think myself it's an architect, probably from one of the big commercial practices running three PPP jobs with four students and a technician because of the ludicrously low fee bid and on top of that being shafted by the contractor or building architectural flotsam that the city "needs".

Finding some consolation in thinking that it's not the building that's important or that it's what the client wants and making it into he AJ top 100"

It was only through pressing that I could confirm that outofchaosapersonthatquackslikeaduckwalkslikeaduckisinfactaduck, is connected with a firm of commercial architects, heavily into PPP and involved in development at Anderston

If you have an interest you should declare it right away, that's all.

Now read the posts.

(knocks quietly...pops head round door and apologises for interrupting)

Incidentally outofchaos, why the handle?

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread (not much construction going on) but anyway, i was wondering if someone could illuminate the PPP process a little. I mean: is it simply driven by lowest bid wins?

The reason I bring it up is because I went to a "Leeds City Council Tender Day" last year where they explained the new processes by which the council awards tenders for the £500m of work out there. Apparently the original model of low-bid wins has been ditched. The reason: it didn't work.

The shiny "new" idea is to build a matrix of influencing factors and give each a weighting. I can't exactly remember them all but one example I do remember is this. If the council tenders for supply of plastic cups it weights cost with 95% and quality of service (inc delivery times, SLAs etc) with 5% (there are several others of course but you get the point). Then each bid is scored against each factor and the weighting applied. So the company who scores very highly on quality of service will lose out to the low cost supplier everytime on this tender.

At the opposite end was a tender for the supply of a nursing home where - unsurprisingly - the quality of service was given a much higher weighting, say 80% and cost 20% (pace the ability of the council to measure these things effectively...stop laughing at the back).

So. Does any of this apply to PPP in Glasgow? And if not why not, cos I came away with the impression that it was a bloody good idea!

The real problem is, of course, obvious to see: how do we identify, agree on and then measure the "quality factors" required of a new school? And then apply the same to the companies out there willing to bid. I mean, all this is wonderful in theory if there are several bidders. What about if there are two, one or even none?

I am reminded of Jamie Oliver who - quite rightly - was disgusted that children are being fed a diet of rubbish on 60p a day. Not only from a nutritional and long term health point of view but more startlingly was from the behavioural side. He seemed to prove conclusively IMO that badly fed kids behave badly and underachieve. Well nourished kids behave and perform better.

Can "better made" schools do the same?

(nods with appreciation, slips quietly through the door, closing it silently behind him)

well I'm disappointed chief that you should feel like that , perhaps if you read the posts more carefully you'd understand. Soccerroo picked it up right away.

Now to remind you, this is what I wrote:

"think myself it's an architect, probably from one of the big commercial practices running three PPP jobs with four students and a technician because of the ludicrously low fee bid and on top of that being shafted by the contractor or building architectural flotsam that the city "needs".

Finding some consolation in thinking that it's not the building that's important or that it's what the client wants and making it into he AJ top 100"

It was only through pressing that I could confirm that outofchaosapersonthatquackslikeaduckwalkslikeaduckisinfactaduck, is connected with a firm of commercial architects, heavily into PPP and involved in development at Anderston

If you have an interest you should declare it right away, that's all.

Now read the posts.


Any normal person would have just asked....

In my travels through internet land i have always been of the view that it is what one says that matters more than who they are. Anyone who has to spout their real world credentials has usually lost the argument and i feel no particular need to justify myself, my arguments stand or fall on their own.

That being said, since this is obviously such a big issue to some i have no issue in clarifying. I post in an entirely personal capacity though i am employed by Aedas who are the architects for the Cuprum building. I am not personally involved in said project in any manner. We are indeed a large practice globally however in reality we operate at a much smaller scale on a local basis and we are of course very involved in PPP though we certainly dont run PPPs with teams of students. We have an experienced and talented team of qualified architects which is why we are so successful and how we can command decent fees for this sort of work.

(knocks quietly...pops head round door and apologises for interrupting)

Incidentally outofchaos, why the handle?

Sorry if this is in the wrong thread (not much construction going on) but anyway, i was wondering if someone could illuminate the PPP process a little. I mean: is it simply driven by lowest bid wins?

The reason I bring it up is because I went to a "Leeds City Council Tender Day" last year where they explained the new processes by which the council awards tenders for the £500m of work out there. Apparently the original model of low-bid wins has been ditched. The reason: it didn't work.

The shiny "new" idea is to build a matrix of influencing factors and give each a weighting. I can't exactly remember them all but one example I do remember is this. If the council tenders for supply of plastic cups it weights cost with 95% and quality of service (inc delivery times, SLAs etc) with 5% (there are several others of course but you get the point). Then each bid is scored against each factor and the weighting applied. So the company who scores very highly on quality of service will lose out to the low cost supplier everytime on this tender.

At the opposite end was a tender for the supply of a nursing home where - unsurprisingly - the quality of service was given a much higher weighting, say 80% and cost 20% (pace the ability of the council to measure these things effectively...stop laughing at the back).

So. Does any of this apply to PPP in Glasgow? And if not why not, cos I came away with the impression that it was a bloody good idea!

The real problem is, of course, obvious to see: how do we identify, agree on and then measure the "quality factors" required of a new school? And then apply the same to the companies out there willing to bid. I mean, all this is wonderful in theory if there are several bidders. What about if there are two, one or even none?

I am reminded of Jamie Oliver who - quite rightly - was disgusted that children are being fed a diet of rubbish on 60p a day. Not only from a nutritional and long term health point of view but more startlingly was from the behavioural side. He seemed to prove conclusively IMO that badly fed kids behave badly and underachieve. Well nourished kids behave and perform better.

Can "better made" schools do the same?

(nods with appreciation, slips quietly through the door, closing it silently behind him)


The PPP judging process is something of a black art but it does basically function in a similar manner to which you describe. Cost is only part of the equation and it typically doesnt make up the major part of the score.

That being said there are certain thresholds that need to be acheived in order for a bid to be acceptable. A bid might be of the absolute highest possible quality but if its above the council's affordability level it cant be considered.

There is flexibility there though. Through the clarification process and often through BAFOs or revise and confirm stages the council can negotiate with the bidders to either bring a quality bid down to an affordable level or an affordable bid up to an acceptable level of quality.

Judging quality is of course a difficult thing to do but it must be as objective as possible and have an audit trail. This is public money that is being spent and it must be possible to display that the best value for that money is being acheived. In order to do that the judging party usually has to establish what would be varying levels of answer to the questions they are asking before the tenderers submit so they have a reference to judge against and each tenderer has to answer these set questions. All the various stakeholders will get to comment on the proposals and usually a group of technical advisers advise on the quality of the proposals in their respective fields.

Different authorities take a different view of cost versus quality. Some have a unitary charge that they have budgeted for and can afford and want to get the maximum they can within that figure. Others have other projects that they want to fund through savings in the PPP project.

Ultimately there are also differing aspects to 'quality'. Most projects are driven by educationalists and, rightly so, its educational quality that is the priority. Consequently they may prefer to see a set of simpler school designs that allow suffcient savings to allow an additional school to be built. This is where PPP is at the mercy of the client. Many of them include refurb schemes as part of their business case. These are unattractive to contractors and funders and usually result in variant schemes for new build solutions. Where that happens there is less slack within the budget to make the most of each school.

The other key difficulty is if a council goes ahead with a funding shortfall and has to make up the difference by selling off 'surplus' land. Sport Scotland are wise to this and require like for like replacement of sports pitches but the downside of this means that external play space is limited and the building footprint has to be kept as compact as possible.

Well anyhoo,

From Elphinstone's site. It's nothing new, but hey...

http://www.elphinstone.com/web/site/News2006/February_2006.asp

Spotlight shines on Glasgow’s regeneration

A spectacular, multi-coloured floodlighting scheme will illuminate Glasgow’s night sky to signal the beginning of a major regeneration project at the city’s Charing Cross area.


Each night from dusk until one o’clock in the morning from Tuesday 21 February until Sunday 26 February, the installation will flood the former Strathclyde Regional Council offices on the corner of St Vincent Street and India Street with a series of colours before they are demolished to make way for Scotland’s tallest building, Elphinstone Place........... (continued in web link)


Still waiting....

quote from some pishy newsletter email thing today....

Elphinstone is to issue tenders documents soon to four major firms for the development of Scotland's highest tower.



Elphinstone was given permission of Elphinstone Place, the 134m-high block in Glasgow, in December 2004, but some design problems have held up the mammoth project

A spokesperson said: "A project of this scale takes time. We are putting a lot of energy into developing this project as best we can, that is the reason everything has taken so long to get off the ground."

Local demolition firm, Whiteinch, is due to begin work at the site in april, and will tear down a 1960's office complex at the Vincent Street site over the next nine months.

Four firms, Baflour Beatty, Laing O'Rourke, Sir Robert McAlpine and Bovis Lend Lease pre-qualified for the deal.

Designed by Cooper Cromar, the 40-storey building will tower over Glasgow's current tallest structure, the Science Centre tower.

Once completed, the mixed-use development will compromise 208 luxury apartments, 20,950 sq ft of office and retail space with leisure facilities and a swimming pool.

Thanks for that, Bingo Bango - I wonder what problems they were having with the design... will they have changed it again, maybe?

9 months is soooo long to wait though - why will it take so long to clear the site? Surely it's close proximity to the road doesn't slow things down that much?


In fact - at this rate, it will be another year before Elphinstone rises above ground. Thats a bit crap. :(

'Fraid it does Boy David. There's no way the Scottish Executive would allow you to proceed with a demolition strategy that could in anyway impinge on the M8. Think of the chaos if it was forced to close! That concrete stair tower on the corner of Newton Street and St Vincent street is going to be especially problematic. And remember in this instance you have to go down before you can go up. There is currently only a single storey basement so that too will have to be dug out first....

Perhaps the existing buildings also have Asbestos problems considering the era they were built.

I think it's going to be at least very late 2007/early 2008 before we see anything significant rise above ground. As gweilo said, they need to go down first - 5 floors plus foundations down!

I'd thought the council might have facilitated by closing the M8. It would only take 4/5 hrs and on a Sunday would cause minimal disruption. Even at that it would still cost the city economy though, that cost is being passed on to the developer. Fair enough.

I really cannot see why you would need to close the M8 to take down the old 1960's building.

If it's taking 9 months to take down the building, it would be appear that they will be using the wee robotic crunchers to nibble away at the structure and take the debris away internally.

I like the idea of the new building and its height, i am not particularly fond of the design, the location is okay but it is going to be stuck next to the building which Mowlem just rennovated - Portcullis House? which is itself a bit of an ugly manifestation which could have done with being demolished with its neighbour.

Totally agree with you on the last point there, socceroo. Canny believe they kept that monstrosity there when it's going to be sandwiched between elphinstone and elmbank!

Sadly, cold, hard economics have a lot more to do with whether a building stays or goes, rather than anything to do with aesthetics.

How true.

If it's taking 9 months to take down the building, it would be appear that they will be using the wee robotic crunchers to nibble away at the structure and take the debris away internally.

Aye - that's what puzzles me too - the building isn't that big. It's not a tower block by any means - surely a controled demolition on the site should be fairly straight forward?

Aye - that's what puzzles me too - the building isn't that big. It's not a tower block by any means - surely a controled demolition on the site should be fairly straight forward?

the thing with a controlled demolition is the impact that has as all the debris hits the deck. the explosion itself isnt too harmful but bringing all that rubble down forcefully onto a retained surface (ie the side walls of the M8) would be too dangerous.

A similar thing was encountered at Glasgow Harbour, meaning the demolition of the old stores was time consuming.

Better that than having half the site end up in the clyde, or in this case on the M8 Southbound....

Great looking building congrats! BTW I'll be in Edinburgh and that area on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. It'll be great to catch up on my ancestry!

Great looking building congrats! BTW I'll be in Edinburgh and that area on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. It'll be great to catch up on my ancestry!
Cheers mate! Enjoy yourself in Edinburgh, and good luck with catching up on your ancestry :)


=====================


Thanks Bingo - it's clarified things for me, but has also removed all hope of a swift demolition :(

Sent another Email to Ken Campbell asking about the progress of big Elphy, got this response:

David,

Demolition has now commenced on site if you have a look. It will take several months. We are arranging for a webcam to be installed nearby which will then be linked to our Elphinstone web site.

There is no major change to the design which received planning consent. You may be aware from the media that we illuminated the building in changing colours before demolition commenced. The lighting was switched on by Stephen Purcell, Leader of Glasgow City Council.

Ken Campbell
Director
Elphinstone
So good news I suppose - work has officially started on the demolition process.

One step nearer to Glasgow's first Skyscraper :)

You certainly go right to the top, don't you?

She even spelled our beloved leaders name incorrectly, eh steph ;) At least its underway!

You certainly go right to the top, don't you?
Would you expect anything less?


==================================


Well folks its that time of the year again.......... for some more Montages! I spent a wee while just there using some new base pics that I found. Tell me what you think :):

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/GoodRender.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/Otherrendersmall.jpg

ahh you can never have too many montages, good job.
love the view over kelvingrove. The more I look at elphy though the more I wished the facade less resembled the Beetham's we are seeing going up, not that they are bad id just like a little more individuality.

The reality of the Beetham towers (apart of course from the Liverpool one which is going to be absolutely bloody marvellous ;)) is rather less than the renders i fear. The one in Birmingham is particularly unconvincing in real life with all that forced and pointless randomness in the glazing which is much less floaty and ethereal than it looks in this faded renders.

I thought Manc's looked more than the renders.

---------------------------

India Street has been sealed off.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/gleegie2/eldel.jpg

http://www.**************************/php-cgi/gallery2/d/8111-5/08CH0206+345.jpg The reality of the Beetham towers (apart of course from the Liverpool one which is going to be absolutely bloody marvellous ;)) is rather less than the renders i fear. The one in Birmingham is particularly unconvincing in real life with all that forced and pointless randomness in the glazing which is much less floaty and ethereal than it looks in this faded renders.

Beetham Birmingham looks just fine, it would certainly be a graceful addition to the Glasgow skyline too!

I don't agree. I think the random, turquoise glazing really cheapens the look of the place... If it was finished using a continuous, tinted glass like many of the great american scrapers HCT would be in a different class altogether.

http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/Media?MEDIA_ID=74223 I don't agree. I think the random, turquoise glazing really cheapens the look of the place... If it was finished using a continuous, tinted glass like many of the great american scrapers HCT would be in a different class altogether.

I know it's not quite an American skyscraper, but do you mean like the Hyatt in Birmingham? Personally, I think they are old hat now.

I think they are old hat now.

Unfashionable eh? Fashion is a dangerous thing in architecture and doing things just because they are 'now' rather than because they are right is a recipe for mistakes.

Erm, let me re-think that actually... Yes you are right FLD, that mirrored tint look is dated, kinda like the Moat House. Actually I am thinking more in the lines of the Sony Centre in Berlin:

http://www.josef-gartner.de/referenzen/images/Sonyweb.jpg

Very similar in design to Elphinstone and finished in a way I would personally be pleased to see emulated. The facade of HCT reminds me of the colour scheme on my paddling pool when I was five!

Yes, that looks better. The new Deutsch Post tower in Bonn is also a superb building & built of quality materials, I wish our cities here could get something on the lines of these buildings. I hated HCT when I first saw it, but it has grown on me. I stayed at the Radisson there a couple of months ago on the 18th floor, & the patterns on the windows do look ok. It probably will date the building in 20 years time or so, but then all buildings date eventually.

It looks like the demolition of the former strathclyde council building is progressing slowly but steadily. The windows about five floors up were being removed when I passed today and the interior looked as if it was beeing gutted. I'm so glad we're finally seeing some activity on the site. Elphinstone predict that the demolition will take 9 months so construction should start january/february 2007 :)

EDIT:
I borrowed gleegie's photo and made a crude rendering. The proportions are wrong etc but you get the idea

From this:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/eldel.jpg

To this(Sort of :) )
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/elphinstoneplace.jpg

http://www.skyscraperpicture.com/bonn05.jpg

Yes, it is very similar to the Deutsche Post Tower in Bonn, it is a superb building. I hope Glasgow's is as good as this!

Elph's way superior to those German towers. Cold, sterile, corporate. Look strangely isolated too, ours'll be embedded.

The colour, slenderness, art and patternetion of Elph give it much needed zip.
http://www.futureglasgow.co.uk/extra/rainbow_pan.jpg

Lovely stuff Gleegie - very artistic :)

Here is a small update on the demolition currently taking place:

They seem to be slowely chipping away at the building on the site of the tower and it is now entirely covered in scaffolding. Also the top floor of the old strathclyde council building is covered in scaffolding.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/DSC00115.jpg

Does anyone have any idea how long the demolition is going to take and when this beauty will start to rise?

Apparently they're waiting for Hell to freeze over first... read it in the Scotsman somewhere, I think.

I'm on site on Thursday so will see wat I can find out :)

I'm on site on Thursday so will see wat I can find out :)
Ohhhh - on site you say?

What you gona be doing on the site Crusty? Helping knock it down, brick by brick I hope :)

I'll get you a piece if you want ;) heh

Well was at the former SRCHQ today and we're looking at December 06 as the earliest completion date for the demolition (dependant on them getting the road closures they need) which really is a logistical nightmare! The western block (the site of the actual tower component of Elphinstone) will be gone first, which is simply down to the fact the lift shaft can be used to dispose of the debris safely from the upper echelons to ground level where it can be transported from site... unfortunately this is not an option for the SRCHQ building.

So still quite a wait befoe we see any actual work on Elphinstone...

I'm pretty sure I'll be married, chartered and even have a wee bairn on the way before we see Elphy completed.

Have a look at this, Ladz:

http://www.elphinstone.com/web/site/Commercial/elphinstonePlace/elphinstone_webcam.asp


One step closer, eh?

:happy:

Nice one David! If you change the camera view to "development" it pans out - I take it this means the whole of Elphinstone will be visible in this shot when complete? Gives a good impression of how big it will seem!

That's a pretty snazzy webcam they've set up there. Most other development webcams I've seen are a picture thats updated every 10 minutes or something similar. However we get a live video webcam that you can even change where it points! I'm impressed!

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4230/fivesquarehiltonglasgowhiltonhotelglasgowptz120061017kq6.jpg

They seem to be progressing well with the demolition of the building on the corner but does anyone know when the demolition will start on the old strathclyde council hq?

This One:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1231/fivesquarehiltonglasgowhiltonhotelglasgowptz120061017lj8.jpg

They've started round back.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y265/gleegie2/12.jpg

Great shot Gleegie :)


Get13 - according to le official website, the whole lot should be down by Feb '07...

Also, I thought the entire complex (including the shit they're demolishing the now) was the old Headquarters?

Also^2, it is a fairly swanky webcam;- Have that, Beetham Manchester, Liverpool and Brumingham :D

I dont think until this is built anyone can imagine how good its going to look. The location is just incredible. Go over the bridge and imagine a glistening emerald skyscraper pearched on that sight. Theres gonna be car crashes man! Is the design 100% finalised then? No chance of an extra 10 or 20 storeys?;)

Well at least we can rename this Eliphinestone Place Demolition - for ages absolutely nothing was happening - really good to see some demolition!!!!!!

Then we can rename it back to construction full and proper!

Well at least we can rename this Eliphinestone Place Demolition - for ages absolutely nothing was happening - really good to see some demolition!!!!!!

Then we can rename it back to construction full and proper!
Hehe indeed :)

But yeah, it's great to see things finally starting to move like this, although the progress you can see on the Webcam has been like that for at least 2 weeks now - this must be one hell of a delicate operation.

Feb 07 is a long way off yet, but I'll be surprised if they're finished by then....

Also^2, it is a fairly swanky webcam;- Have that, Beetham Manchester, Liverpool and Brumingham :D

Acht at least Beetham got decent architects for the Liverpool tower ;)

Not AEDARSE then?? :doh:

Momus what have you been told about channelling the malevolent spirit of the late Mr Dunlop? ;)

Sorry......couldn't resist.

Not AEDARSE then?? :doh:

How long had you been waiting to use that one then?

I used it 3 seconds after I thought of it....

Demolition is progressing quickly now. The building on the corner is basically gone:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonhote.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-1.jpg

Nice update get13 :)

Long way to go yet though.

Walked/ran pas the site tonight, the area was looking great/urban in the rain... To think we'll have something special here in 2 years time puts a smile on me face.

That area round there looks a bit...drab and uninspiring...to say the least. Hopefully this tower should divert people's attension away from the ground level buildings....

:cheers:

Why are you 'drinking' while saying that?

because he is an alcoholic, you insensitive jerk. give the guy a break he is struggling here man!

Dam straight!! No need to kick a guy when he's down! :(

I have a habit of using that smilee at the end of each post for some reason...

:cheers:

is it to make yourself feel better about who you are? remember, the first step is admitting you have a problem.....


...addiction to smileys can seriously damage your credibility ;)

:) Good to see Elphinstone Place eventually coming together...well nearly, at last.


Just to let you all know that I still keep up to date with the forum, eventhough I don't contribute much or at all nowadays. Too busy with uni and drinking and the like.

But keep up the good work guys! This forum may not have as many members as Manchester or Birmingham, but in terms of quality or discussion, usually without bickering or bitching, this forums definitely of a higher standard.


:)

Glad your still around, Ross - this forum has missed your enthusiasm of late :)

----------------------

Am I one of the only people who really likes the concrete/urban feel of Charing Cross (even the ugly bits)?

Glad your still around, Ross - this forum has missed your enthusiasm of late :)

----------------------

Am I one of the only people who really likes the concrete/urban feel of Charing Cross (even the ugly bits)?

Yeah, Nice to see we haven't lost everyone on this site!!

Yup it has gone very quiet these days. I'm still about but rarely post, still check the pages about twice a day!
Great to see Elphinstone progressing! It's difficult to imagine just how much of an impact it will have on Glasgow's skyline!

It's picking up again slowly, but surely.

One of things that I used to think was pretty great was that we had such a range of people. Alan can be a bit difficult to deal with at times, but he is a good architect, passionate about what he does, and certainly the only well known architect who participates in this kind of thing. Gweilo was (and it seem a shame to say was) our touch point on New Urbanism etc, and given the current debate around Tornagrain at Inverness, that would be a welcome voice to have again. Soceroo is a contractor, Murdomac a developer (correct me if I'm wrong on that). Chief is a services engineer in training. Outofchaosaworld and Solidred are architects, and I'm there are a few others who are as well, but don't state so. There are a fair few architecture students, I think. There are others who have nothing to do with the construction industry, but their passion shows through.

Anyway, if anyone I've mentioned is still reading this, I'll stop massaging egos, and just say that the diversity that we had around here is a great thing, and I hope it picks up again.





Oh, and I take that Elphinstone is going ahead then? I can understand the rationale of clearing a site, but presumably they wouldn't be bothering with a webcam etc if they weren't going ahead?

Update

The corner building is gone now so the old hq should now really get going. Hopefully We'll begin to see some real progress on it soon. The sooner it's gone the better :banana:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-3.jpg

Just to remind everyone what we're waiting for:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/Untitled-6.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/Untitled-4.jpg

2007 ,, is going to be a great year for skyscrapers starting in the UK ,, really looking forward to seeing this beaut start .

I have a habbit of looking more than I post but I will try to break this habbit.
also it may take a while to build the tower but the form and hieght may appear quicker than we think

Trust me... they won't. Take however long you're expecting it to take and then double it. At least then you won't be disappointed.

It will take months below grade before you see anything of interest starting to rise. And they've not even cleared the site yet, let alone begun digging. No test boreholes for the piling works yet either - long, long way to go my friend!

Lyonners are sympathizing with you Glasgowers as we're waiting for the construction of a 117m high tower. Works on site began last month.
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=305208&page=22

Vous avez deja un tour de 165m à Lyon, ce n'est pas mal! :rock:

http://www.zoxx.net/~chrystelle/Lyon_2004/images/tour_credit_lyonnais_s.jpg

Update

It looks like the top floor is gone. I'm hoping it starts to progress quickly now. Only 8(?) more floors to go. :)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-4.jpg

EDIT Here's a morphing image showing the progress from November(It may take a while to load)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/export.gif

Nice one get13 :)

Love the morph :D

guess you can do a whole morph for demolition to complete build! - and run it on fast - much quicker than to build it for real!!

guess you can do a whole morph for demolition to complete build! - and run it on fast - much quicker than to build it for real!!

Yeah I should be able to. I'm saving the images from the webcam every now and again. I'll start saving them regularly once construction starts. It should make a pretty good video. :)

I'll look forward to seeing this rise, I'll be moving to Glasgow Uni in September :)
When is this due to be completed (sorry if it's been said everywhere...I am a lazy git)

I'll look forward to seeing this rise, I'll be moving to Glasgow Uni in September :)
When is this due to be completed (sorry if it's been said everywhere...I am a lazy git)
The structure itself will probably be finished mid 2008, with the building opening in late 2008/early 2009. So a bit of time to go yet.

So you'll still be at the uni by the time its finished. Hooray! In fact, it should just about be rising above ground when you start in September, so you don't have to wait long to watch it grow first hand :)

It's gona be a cracker, I tell thee.

:D Thanks. I'll probably be at the Uni for 5 years, if I go ahead with the teacher training.
I'll be visiting Glasgow in March for one of the Uni Open Days again, should be good.

what's the general reaction from our architecturally inclined buddies to this building? personally, as well as being chuffed about the height (137m is gonna look huge on our stumpy skyline), I'm quite pleased that its an interesting looking structure. when I see it in the renders it looks pleasingly different from all angles - its going to make a great centre piece for postcards and the like - eg aerial shots with it, the motorway, the mitchell and the river. can't wait to see her rise...

For me, what really makes it special is the location. There could not be a better location for Scotland's tallest. The view while driving over the Kingston bridge towards the city will be breathtaking. The m8 is already an incredibly interesting drive through Charing Cross. Imagine what it'll be like when this is finished. :)

Half of the main building is gone :)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/Elphwebcam.jpg

Wow, they've progressed quickly on the top floor from yesterday. Here's another morph for everyone showing demolition progress from November until yesterday(Again it may take a while to load. Be patient :)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/Morph280107.gif

Wow, that is real progress! Can't wait to see even more happen.

The large yellow arm thing with the jaw on the end (I don't know the proper name for it) started working on the front of the building tonight. It's all gone now except for the front. It should be down in no time :D

The elphinstone website says the site should be cleared by April however if they keep going at this rate it'll be finished early.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-5.jpg

These two pictures show the progress made in an hour and a half. Look at the top left of the building.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-7.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-8.jpg

Heres some pics showing progress taken at the weekend:

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/newtonyman/HPIM4170.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/newtonyman/HPIM4173.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i52/newtonyman/HPIM4172.jpg "Welcome to Charing Cross"

Great Shots Tony! Shows you just how bare they've had to strip it before knocking the building down.


Another section of the building has been taken away, btw - we're half-way there :D

why do they skoosh water onto the building while the grabby-demolition machine is eating its way through the structure?

dust

D'Oh! Seems obvious now.

i would imagine with its close proximity to the M8,
dust could be a problem

It is also better for the workers health Id imagine!

Once finished the view form the M8 (kingston Bridge) should be amazing...
Thanx for the piccies Tony :)

Up in Glasgow this weekend. Coming in on the train on Friday night was pretty special... amazingly lit up trees and the red suspersion bridge to the west, and the kingston bridge and city to the east.

Also, was absolutely delighted to see with my own eyes that the old SRC building is finally gone! Bring on 'Elphy'.

Hope you had a good time back home, chief :)


Here's the latest - it's sooo close to being finished (above ground, at least)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y124/the_boy_david/demo.jpg

Anybody know if the Tower has passed all Planning hurdles, got a Warrant and has been put out to tender yet?

Not sure - last I heard (and this was about a year ago), Elphinstone had 5 folks up for the tender to build the thing; I can only presume that they've chosen someone by now...


As for planning, I think it has been cleared to go for sometime now - I may be wrong though?

Went past the site a couple of hours ago demolition seems to be coming along nicely. Going to look huge perched on that site, cant wait to see the doka rising. Anyone heard ANYTHING on Elmbank and the taller, slender tower redesign?

Anybody know if the Tower has passed all Planning hurdles, got a Warrant and has been put out to tender yet?

Outline planning has the go ahead as far i can gather.EP (http://www.elphinstone.com/web/site/Commercial/elphinstonePlace/elph_place2.asp)


BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4115315.stm)

http://www.elphinstone.com/web/MultimediaFiles/ELPH_PLACE2.JPG

Thanks for that Mori.

I see the demo is a couple of weeks away from completion and then about by my reckoning another 3 - 4 weeks to clear the rubble.

Founds will probably be over a year to complete on a job like that i would think the Piling will be a challenge.

So if the Piling starts this year we are looking at about 3.5 year build? Anyone got a completion date. I'd say 2010 / 2011.

I do not doubt your projections for a moment Socceroo but is is not interesting to ponder that the Empire State Building took 13 months to build bank in 1931.

I watched a movie about the Empire State building once. The construction was incredibly tightly controlled: there were deliveries of steel every 90 seconds or something ridiculous like that, and no on site storage. Once the steel arrived, it had to be craned away, ready to be incorporated into the structure, before the next batch arrived.

I think their health and safety procedures were somewhat more lax than today's:

http://www.unitedstatetravel.com/images/construction3.jpg

As I mistakingly posted elsewhere, I gather there are some major services diversions required on India Street once the demo is complete, and I am sure we all know what a law unto themselves the PU's are!

Not long to go now :D

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Get13/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-9.jpg

Out of interest, what is that green stuff on the side of the building that's adjacent to the demolition site? Is it just plastic sheeting or is it something else?

Plastic sheeting to keep the worst of the rain off of the exposed gable I would imagine.

Geeky question, but anyone know if it's steel or concrete framed?

GCC (http://www.glasgowcitycouncil.co.uk/committee_minutes/public/extdocviewtop.asp?CID=1648&DATE=21/12/2004&TIME=11:00&DAY=&PAGE=1&STATE=Live&FILE=Documents/Live/Development%20and%20Regeneration%20Services%20(Development%20Applications)%20Sub-committee/20046/1100_21_12_2004_1648_Report_Item%201b.pdf&DocId=4853&Index=d%3a%5cdtsearch%5cindexes%5cLive&HitCount=96&hits=25+26+27+b0+b1+b2+253+254+255+574+575+576+89d+89e+89f+b2c+b2d+b2e+c4c+c4d+c4e+e6b+e6c+e6d+1078+1079+107a+1260+1261+1262+146a+146b+146c+16e5+16e6+16e7+1955+1956+1957+1b5e+1b5f+1b60+1dd4+1dd5+1dd6+2018+2019+201a+21b1+21b2+21b3+2318+2319+231a+25a8+25a9+25aa+281a+281b+281c+2b0a+2b0b+2b0c+2d9b+2d9c+2d9d+2fd2+2fd3+2fd4+31a1+31a2+31a3+3397+3398+3399+3602+3603+3604+3807+3808+3809+3a1a+3a1b+3a1c+3c2f+3c30+3c31+3e34+3e35+3e36+40ca+40cb+40cc+42d0+42d1+42d2+) In actual fact it has full planning permision and was passed in 2004. :)

SITE AND DESCRIPTION

The area, subject to redevelopment proposals, comprises two contiguous sites which lie on the north side of St VincentStreet at Charing Cross, close to the M8 Motorway. Both sites comprise vacant office buildings, which date from the1960’s, last used by the former Strathclyde Regional Council as part of its 'Strathclyde House' headquarters complex.
The first site lies between Newton Street and India Street and is occupied by 'Clive House'. The second lies between India Street and Elmbank Street and is occupied by a building formerly known as Guardian Royal Exchange House. Including the solum of India Street, the site extends to 1.4 acres (0.566 Ha). The impact of the M8 Motorway on the fabric of the City, coupled with the comprehensive area based redevelopment that followed, can be seen in the area's established urban fabric and townscape characteristics.
This contains new and historical street patterns interspersed with listed buildings and modern office developments of varying architectural design, height and mass. Although the site lies outside the boundaries of
the Central Conservation Area, there are a number of listed buildings situated close by, including the former High School of Glasgow, 11-27 Elmbank Street, 39 Elmbank Crescent, St Columba’s Parish Church and the Kings Theatre. The Park Conservation Area, which includes a number of important landmark buildings, including the Trinity College Building and Mitchell Library, lies across the M8 Motorway to the west.

PROPOSAL

Planning permission is sought for a mixed development comprising residential, office, leisure, retail and
restaurant uses, plus associated basement car parking and external landscaping works. The proposed
development, which represents a significant urban regeneration project for both Glasgow and for Scotland,
comprises three principal elements:
(i) a 134 m high mixed use tower incorporating 202 residential flats, a high level restaurant on the 34th floor
(this is subject to Building Control approval), office, leisure and retail uses;
(ii) a smaller 7-storey office building incorporating ground floor retail/commercial uses; and
(iii) a large ‘covered street’ or atria positioned between both buildings on the axis of India Street.
The overall mix of uses, development form and means of access is considered by the applicant to adhere to the
strict urban design criteria contained within the City Council's original marketing brief for the site, consistent with
the policies of the City Plan. The tower anchors the corner of India Street and Newton Street close to the
M8 Motorway, introducing a major new ‘iconic building’ to the City Centre's skyline, highly visible from a number
of vantage points across Glasgow, primarily the west and southwest. The podium building, which adjoins the
tower, and the smaller office building have been configured in response to the established street pattern formed
by Newton Street, St Vincent Street and Elmbank Street, although the opportunity has been taken to increase
permeability by introducing a new street linking Elmbank Street and India Street. The development's plan-form,
scale and massing are not felt to prejudice the scope for redevelopment of potentially obsolete 1960’s/70’s
office buildings situated north of the application site.

Demolition has started again!:banana:
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/Elphinstone.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonhote.jpg
Nearly Done!:cheer:

Thanks for the updates Mr. B - nice pom poms!

Great! It should be down in no time. I can't wait to see this beauty rise. Hopefully the site clearance and enabling works don't take too long. :banana:

Quicker! Quicker!!

Unfortunately, below ground works always take much longer than we tend to anticipate. They have to excavate down about 6 stories (I think - or is it 4?) for the below grade parking/plant etc, then excavate foundations, do the piling, line the basement, build the basement & core up to ground floor level, then we start to see it rise.

Another of my very ill-educated guesses here, but I'd be surprised if we anything above ground by around this time next year. The good thing is that once it gets going, it'll fly up.

So close now :banana:

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3816/fivesquarehiltonglasgowxx8.jpg

oooooh Can't wait. It's like second Christmas:happy:

Great progress, but they've stopped at that point for two days now... just finish the job for godsake!


And I hate to agree with chief that it's really going to be ages until we see this thing rise... I'll be finished my post grad by the time Elphy tops out...

Wit the hell is rang wi agreein wi me? Ya bas!

Going to be April before the demo is finished......

Wit the hell is rang wi agreein wi me? Ya bas!
I'll ya bas ya, ya bas!

Hehe sorry chieftan - that totally came out wrong.... you knows wot I meant and all that, lolzzz :)

More gone...hopefully more soon!
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-1.jpg

So nearly there... :banana:

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/1209/fivesquarehiltonglasgowht0.jpg

Going...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-1.jpg

Going...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-4.jpg

Going...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-3.jpg

Gone!

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q95/The_Talking_orange/fivesquare-hiltonglasgow-hiltonh-2.jpg

Yippee! :banana2:

Finally! Thanks for the photo-updates!


Now this is the worst bit. Another year's wait until we see anything rise....


Patience is a virtue and all that...

Hi folks,

New member here. Have joined mainly because of Elphinstone Place - really looking forward to seeing the construction and completion of this project.

Don't be shy, say hello!

Chris

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Hi folks,

New member here. Have joined mainly because of Elphinstone Place - really looking forward to seeing the construction and completion of this project.

Don't be shy, say hello!

Chris

Welcome to the forums Chris!

Hello Chris. Good to have you join us. Welcome!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6528019.stm

Tallest tower 'worth 2,000 jobs'

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40652000/jpg/_40652777_tallesttowernight203300.jpg The landmark building will be completed in 2008

Scotland's tallest building will create 2,000 jobs when it is completed next year, its builders have announced.
The £120m project will see a 39-storey complex built on the site of the former Strathclyde Regional Council headquarters in Glasgow.

Developer Elphinstone revealed the jobs boost as they announced a tie-up with property specialists City Lofts Group.

The 134m tower will have a mixture of retail space, offices, a swimming pool and housing.

The site covers 1.4 acres on the corner of St Vincent Street and India Street in Glasgow's city centre and will include 208 luxury apartments and 171,000 sq ft of prestigious offices.

It will be built in the shape of a tear-drop, and will be 9m above the Glasgow Science Tower which is currently the tallest in the country.

The development, which has been given the name Elphinstone Place, will have more than 20,000 square metres of office and retail property.

It will also contain more than 200 luxury apartments, including four glass-fronted penthouse flats and a restaurant on the 34th floor.

Chairman and chief executive of Elphinstone, Ken Ross, said: "We are delighted to be working with City Lofts Group who bring specialised knowledge and experience of high-rise buildings to this flagship development in Glasgow.

"We look forward to creating a comprehensive landmark development that will regenerate the Charing Cross area of the city."

Elphinstone Joins Forces with City Lofts Group to Create Scotland's Tallest Building


Innovative Scottish property developer Elphinstone has teamed up with City Lofts Group, one of the UK’s leading companies specialising in residential and mixed use property development, in a joint venture to create Scotland’s tallest building.

Through City Lofts Elphinstone Limited, the two companies have acquired the 1.4 acre site on the corner of St Vincent Street and India Street in Glasgow’s city centre from Glasgow City Council. The site has planning permission for a £120 million, apartment, office and retail development including 208 luxury apartments and 171,000 sq ft of prestigious offices.

The development will support nearly 2000 jobs.

At 134 metres the building will be nine metres higher than Scotland’s current tallest structure – the tower at Glasgow Science Centre.

Chairman and Chief Executive of Elphinstone, Ken Ross, said: “We’re delighted to be working with City Lofts Group who bring specialised knowledge and experience of high-rise buildings to this flagship development in Glasgow. We look forward to creating a comprehensive landmark development that will regenerate the Charing Cross area of the city.”

Stuart Wright, Chief Executive of City Lofts Group commented: “Our joint acquisition of St Vincent Street demonstrates our continued commitment to expanding our operations, both in terms of the number of schemes we build and the diversity of their locations. We are looking forward to working with Elphinstone and its experienced team to deliver a landmark development on one of the most high profile and strategically important sites in Glasgow.”

Legal advice on the deal was provided by McGrigors for Elphinstone and by Harper Macleod for City Lofts Group. The joint venture company received financial and property advice from McClure Naismith and CB Richard Ellis respectively.

http://www.scottishproperty.co.uk/news/index.cfm?fuseaction=ViewFullStory&ID=7850

Hopefully this tower will be the first of many once people get used to a skyscraper in Glasgow and developers see the viability. I hate to say this as it sounds like a moan but I wish it was another 50 metres taller - purely because I love the design so much I'd like it to be Glasgow's landmark tower rising above the rest, I think theres a fair chance in the next decade other towers will end up being taller ( even Elmbank could end up a similar height if they are talking about a taller more slender design? ). But I cant wait to see it up, I cant imagine what it will look like after all these years of looking at the drab, dated entrance to the city centre as you come in from the bridge. I think its important we keep pace with the English cities as not to look like a dated backwater. Who knows what will come though with the hotels looking around and people like Dandara about who as well as Cheapside and the harbour say they are still interested in a 500-600'000sq ft development in Glasgow. Glasgow city centre believe it or not is the UK's largest regional office market outside London and its important we keep up a level of developments to match Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds - at present we're not. I'd love to see a large speculative development like Spinningfields in Glasgow ( Manchester, 2.5m sq ft of office space which is larger than the whole IFSD ). I think its a shame Tradeston wasnt considered for such a development as it seems like an ideal location and the current IFSD has finite space. But there has been a few large developments announced recently and I think things are looking good for Glasgow in the next few years ( I have no idea what impact winning the games bid would have on development in the city ).

I hate to say this as it sounds like a moan but I wish it was another 50 metres taller - purely because I love the design so much I'd like it to be Glasgow's landmark tower rising above the rest, I think theres a fair chance in the next decade other towers will end up being taller ( even Elmbank could end up a similar height if they are talking about a taller more slender design? ). Well, unless the CAA change the radar profile of Glasgow Airport, there isn't much chance of that I'm afraid...

I never knew that:) What Glasgow's limit set at?

Well, unless the CAA change the radar profile of Glasgow Airport, there isn't much chance of that I'm afraid...

Didnt think Glasgow Airport would been an issue seen as the city centre is not really on theflight path, for runway 05 or runway 23.

Infact, I dont think I have ever seen an aircraft over the city centre.

Could it possibly be the new sea plane service from the Clyde?

No i read somewhere that Elphinestone place is only 1metre below the height limit due to the Radar at the Airport

Thats a bit of a pisser, thats much lower than the English cities.

Well obviously buildings could be taller, but they would have to be nearer sea level or further away from the radar. Elphinstone Tower is an elevated position in comparison to say the Hilton.

exactly im also sure that if some developer wanted to build taller BAA could do something for the radar so that tall buildings don't get in its way. I hope they do build taller in that area. Elphinstone just looks so perfect in its location.

Not as if the building is going to move, or suddenly leap out in front of a plane.....amazing how they can deal with these issues abroad. And your mobile works on the underground too....Paris, Barcelona, New York....

Well that's what I've always thought - a skyscraper will make a massive, stationary imprint on any half decent radar system. But I suppose it would probably be distracting to air traffic controllers; the less clutter on their screens the better I suppose.

I've always wondered if there is some sort of transponder device that could be used to notify the radar system of what the building is, and thus to be removed from the system instead of identifying it such as you get with military transponders identifying friendlies....

Might not be possible, but hey ho...


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The distance from the radar increases the ceiling height - that's why East One in Dalmarnock can theoretically rise an extra 56m (plus it's probably nearer to sea level; while Elphinstone Place is probably a good 20m above it).


Anyway, it's super fantastic great smashing brilliant that they've got the whole thing lined up and ready to go. Site is supposed to be cleared by the end of April.

Let the drilling commence!







In 3 weeks.

And your mobile works on the underground too....Paris, Barcelona, New York....

Tell me about it, I travel the tube a fair fews times a year. It blows my mind that in London of all places you cant get a signal on the underground.

Tell me about it, I travel the tube a fair fews times a year. It blows my mind that in London of all places you cant get a signal on the underground.
That's a fantastically good thing, is it not?

The distance from the radar increases the ceiling height - that's why East One in Dalmarnock can theoretically rise an extra 56m (plus it's probably nearer to sea level; while Elphinstone Place is probably a good 20m above it).


Crazy when you think the east end of Glasgow is on the approach for runway 23 yet aircraft next to never fly direct over the city centre.

Yep it's not ideal, but then radar coverage heights are not sectionally adjustable: you can't have a low ceiling height, then a high ceiling height for the city centre, and then bring the ceiling height down again - radar, like light, travels in a straight line. In this case the radar ceiling is clearly at a slight angle to the ground, it must rise 10m or so per mile? (Glasgow airport is roughly 13 miles from the city centre, yeah?).



What puzzles me is how airports like Chicago Midway operate: Their radar ceiling must be at least 6 times that of ours, yet Midway is only about 5 miles away from downtown. How can they deal with such close proximity to such massively tall structures? (bear in mind that Chicago has just had a mammoth 2,000ft tower approved)...