:) Just need the prana building cleaning now

http://tinypic.com/9up4bl.jpg

http://tinypic.com/9up4jd.jpg

http://tinypic.com/9up4qa.jpg

As brown buildings go that's not bad actually. Makes the original Westside look well dated though!

I quite like West2 - it's quite interesting to look at - especially the balcony line that goes at an angle and the window arrangement.

Can we knock down West1 now? It looks pants! Or at least can they finish it (i.e. put some cladding on :laugh: )

Nice pics U475F btw :)

Wow!! I really need to get down Brum for a look round last time I saw this it was still covered in scaffolding.....I think I actually like this, and i love the shot with HCT in the background

i like it now..... after all the disproval of this building, it really aint that bad...... aint gona win any competitions mind u but still!

Not that impressed by this. Look at U's first photo - the two buildings are similar yet completely different. If the new building (does it have a name?) had a steel extension that matched the top two floors of the original building, then the two would blend together.
Still, with Orion and HCT just yards away, this project was never going to (or needed to) excite.

The bright sunny weather is certainly helping it's appearence in those photo's....I wonder how it looks on a dull dreary day? It's still turned out better than I'd hoped even if it does look a little awkward.

That aint half bad - I look forward to seeing a complete Orion, HCT, Orion 2 and hopefully another highrise to the right of it in a few years time.

It does add some visual interest to that side of the street. Not as bad as we were all thinking, not at all. Either side needs work now :yes:

guess which way i went home. Some shots from the other side

http://tinypic.com/a1n883.jpg

http://tinypic.com/a1n8k4.jpg

HEHEHE, IMAGINE IF U SPENT £400,000 ON ONE OF THOSE FLATS AND YOU ENDED UP WITH A ROOM LOOKING DIRECTLY THROUGH A WINDOW OF THE BROOOK CLINIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

My effort from today taken from Holloway Circus....bloody stupid purple taxi >(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Robdann/Construction%202/WestsideextAug7th2005.jpg

not to my likeing is this

Its fine, not a bad addition at all ... damn purple cab, would've been a great picture aswell :(

Cant wait for JB to start rising, and hopefully Alexandra Theatre will moved and they redevlop the shitty NCP car park next to HCT with another Orion sized tower.

Infact this site here, next to Westside is perfect for Bionsonics two mysterious towers ... ummm

http://tinypic.com/9up4jd.jpg

not to my likeing is this

Are you Yoda in disguise Pirlo??

yep!

Keep the alex theatre (rebuild the entrance to it) and demoilsh the carpark. not a bad thing really - posh apartment blocks and a theatre go well together i think

Good pics Foxtrot & Smiley - I must admit - I like the look of Westside and West2 from John Bright Street - I love the layering of old, not so old and new.

Infact this site here, next to Westside is perfect for Bionsonics two mysterious towers ... ummm

:laugh: I can categorically state that the twin towers do not belong here!

I don't think I would like any more highrises along this bit - it would make it pedestrian-unfriendly. The NCP should go and the low-rise sections should be set-back I reckon - just to open things out a little more.

Incidentally the jungle drums are beating and rumours are Stephenson Tower is being converted into an office block. It's gonna take some converting if this is true! I can't see it myself - small floorplates and the upgrading of the building would be difficult, BUT it would be a difficult building to demolish, and it is in a prime location!

Can you categorically state where they are? :hahaha: anymore news on them?

Stephenson tower into an office block? umm ... some how this one doesnt seem feasible, unless they knock it down and build a new one. The cladding is hard enough to replace let alone turn the floor plates, lift shafts etc into a workable office block.

Increase in height could be a possibility, but I cant see a block from the 70's being turned into offices unless they are willing to spend millions on installing vents etc. Its a waste of money, they might aswell knock it down and start again. :yes:

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/633StephensonTower_pic1.jpg

I thought it would probably bite the dust with any future New Street station redevelopement

I thought it would probably bite the dust with any future New Street station redevelopement

Yeh - maybe and replace it with what Liverpool and Brighton seem to be doing, a gateway tower. You cant build thee sort of buildings arounf a train station because they get dirty amazingly easily. It needs to be a material which looks smart and thats easy to clean. I tell you what, when you come in to Birmingham by train Orion doesnt half look big :yes:

I haven't been to Liverpool for a while (and I've never been to Brighton) - what are their gateway towers like? Resi or commercial?

New Street's going to have a glass (or similar) roof - I wonder how they'll clean it?

Liverpool Grand Central Station - Hotel and Residential

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/2918GrandCentralLimeStreet_pic2.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/2918GrandCentralLimeStreet_pic3.jpg

Ah, gotcha. So they're not built yet then?

Seems to be quite a trend for building towers next to the railway station - I wonder if we'll get one?

It would be quite difficult to knock down Stephenson, but then again I guess they could give it the same treatment as the Post & Mail.

that Liverpool scheme looks fantastic

Yeh you never know, maybe they will develop the whole area around New Street ...

Brightons Station Tower - Floors 42 (Mixed)

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/348NewEnglandSquare_pic1.jpg

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/348NewEnglandSquare_pic2.jpg

The Brighton Scheme got rejected.

There really is a trend of building tall beside railway stations, Eastgate in Manchester, Criterion in Leeds, the two towers in Liverpool. All about gateways these days.

can you class a recladded rotunda as a gateway tower

can you class a recladded rotunda as a gateway tower

You could, but I think McClaren is the most vocal gateway tower and its further away. It always strikes me when coming in on the train from the north. When Masshouse is built (check out Caw ;)) that area will be STUNNING :yes:

infact it would seem aswell that the liverpool one has been rejected too. i see your point BC but your two examples are shit lol (unless the liverpool developers have a go)

but, you never know. i heard that also in some of the possibilities for the new street site they they want to keep stephensopn tower......... but other want to demolish it and also build new tower(s). will have to watch this space!

anyway, remember, the birmingham high places document suggest the new street site is a good area for highrises and states a tall building should be buiilt!

Oi they are good examples ;) Liverpool's developers are very positive that they will win thier appeal, according to Gothics site.

I just dont see how they can keep stephenson tower, there's just no obvious reason why it should stay.

P.S Interesting stuff Woodhousen - will these be released at the same time that New Street masterplan is, or will they be seperate developements?

no, as far as i am aware, it is all the same scheme named "THE BIRMINGHMAM GATEWAY".....how original.....anyway, its a totally new masterplan with the station at the city of it!

Oh that be good then ... lol and yes a very original name. Do you know when we shall see it?

Even if Stephenson was upgraded, I can't see that as being the Gateway to Birmingham - hardly very impressive!

I think New St is submitted for planning by Christmas so we shall find out what they have in store ;)

the site of the odeon by chance?

Dunno about the Odeon - I'd like to see it go but I doubt if they could stick a tower there - problems with overshadowing especially with the Rotunda being resi.

thats thats just what ive heard...what have you heard?

I couldn't possibly say, but the redevelopment of New St is a property hotspot and it would be a wasted opportunity if something wasn't done. The station itself will be impressive enough but the land there is probably the most expensive in Birmingham...

......don tu think thats funny BC...what u were panning is what te council have been planning all along!

Do you mean me and not BC :???:

I am not planning anything :) The council have designated New St Station as a potential highrise point haven't they? We just have to wait for the revised plans to be released to see if they are going to take advantage of the redevelopment opportunity.

Incidentally I think BC mentioned a document called "City Heights" - I can't find it! Any hints?

no, i meant BC, reg the liverpool and brighton thing.

i cant find that city heights thing either.

do u av any idea when the new street thing wil be released?

I dont think the City Height's document has been finished yet :cheers:

....well lets just hope that it is a new document as it will have to be open to public consultation.....and then we can have our say.....


though where do u get the idea that they are righting a new guuideline?

This is all I've read - Its relatively knew, but theres still stuff relating back to the old guidance.

http://www.crworld.co.uk/aware/CR%20Heights%20Birmingham%20City%20Council.pdf

The main bit that caught my eye was ...

... "Due to Birminghams Internation Airport's close proximity to the city, the Cival Aviation Authority imposes height constraints on all building development. The City Heights database helps plan the location of new tall buildings to avoid those areas where restrictions apply" ...

....... well this isn't a new planning guidelines but infact it does just sound like a computer program or something that works in conjunction with "high places"

by the looks of it it just uses ordinance survey data to add land height to building height - the bullcrap 242m above sea level will still apply (lets hope the broad street tower people dont see this as the'll probably have to chop 10 storeys off..)

Ghostdog - the CAA ruling is rubbish. its just there to stop huge numbers of high towers being proposed here there and everywhere. I personally have no belief ... actaully I have confidence in it as there is already a 152m built and a 122m U/C - It can be broken if really wanted to, its just a matter of who will and who wont.

ehhw Stephenson, Gala Casino tower and all those ugly towers need to removed, when developing new street. otherwise they will spoil it.a reclad wont work only CCT shoulds stay, all that needs is big glass windows on it and a pyramid and it will look like something from cananry wharf,

Ghostdog - the CAA ruling is rubbish. its just there to stop huge numbers of high towers being proposed here there and everywhere. I personally have no belief ... actaully I have confidence in it as there is already a 152m built and a 122m U/C - It can be broken if really wanted to, its just a matter of who will and who wont.

the document makes it very clear that 242 is a limit and that extra hoops will have to be cleared to go higher (who would bother when building in Manchester is much easier). The 122m U/C you mention must be HCT but we all know that its only that height because CAA insisted the original height was too much and Beetham couldnt be bothered to take ages pushing for the high version. I know the ruling is rubbish but it does exist I'm afraid and I have no doubt that it has already resulted in the cancelling/dwarfing/moving-to-manchester of many concepts in designers offices...

btw I have to say the Arena Central Sweeptakes thread is a pathetic indication of the state of Brum - noone even dare admit going for the original height that was given planign permission despite 52 storeys being planned in Leeds etc. Of course you guys aren't stupid, you're giving these predictions (slightly higher than alpha tower etc) because you realise that Bimingham is a second-class city when it comes to proposals and you dont want to be disappointed - its sad, Arena Central is meant to be a real landmark tower but Birmingham is so pathetic at projects that even your mini-tower projections will probably be seen as over-ambiitous.

the document makes it very clear that 242 is a limit and that extra hoops will have to be cleared to go higher (who would bother when building in Manchester is much easier). The 122m U/C you mention must be HCT but we all know that its only that height because CAA insisted the original height was too much and Beetham couldnt be bothered to take ages pushing for the high version. I know the ruling is rubbish but it does exist I'm afraid and I have no doubt that it has already resulted in the cancelling/dwarfing/moving-to-manchester of many concepts in designers offices...

btw I have to say the Arena Central Sweeptakes thread is a pathetic indication of the state of Brum - noone even dare admit going for the original height that was given planign permission despite 52 storeys being planned in Leeds etc. Of course you guys aren't stupid, you're giving these predictions (slightly higher than alpha tower etc) because you realise that Bimingham is a second-class city when it comes to proposals and you dont want to be disappointed - its sad, Arena Central is meant to be a real landmark tower but Birmingham is so pathetic at projects that even your mini-tower projections will probably be seen as over-ambiitous.


Well the ruling is what the ruling is, if people want to get around it they can try. I'd like you to explain in plain english what 'second class city' and 'pathetic at projects' means. If what you mean is low in height then kindly say so. Neither 'second class' nor 'pathetic' are words I'd use to describe recent and forthcoming projects in my city.

just beacuse something is low does not make it second class look at selfridges and the soon to be built CUBE, i rather have that then something tall, and generic, which does not generte dissucsion

Off the top of my head:
Bridley place,
the bullring,
masshouse,
HCT,
the mailbox,
new street station,
Broad st. tower,
Orion,
Rotunda refirb,
Arena central (which is gonna happen)


All of these projects are world class!

We shouldn't expect major highrises till the completion of the City Centre re-structuring development program by 2010-11. After that and in period of 5-10 year the development will shift to highrise constructions. Based to Birmingham's economic magnitude I expect to re-gain the second position quite easily.

with second class i was talking about skyscrapers, the low predicted heights for AC reflecting peoples realisation that birmingham is pretty impotent in this area - quite why a dull 12 floor extension to a building is on a skyscraper forum I'll never get. Perhaps we should move the birmingham forum to midrisecity.com (joke!)

As for world class - well the bullring certainly is, but the rotunda, orion, broad street tower and masshouse... no chance

oh yes, the cube does look good though

Erm.... just because brum isnt building many tall's at the moment. Niether was london til the last few years. And Manchester is only just starting to enter the highrise world. (Most of those buildings in both cities are still on the drawing boards anyway).

And by the way the Rotunda, Broad street tower, masshouse and Orion will all be apartment blokes (when finished) worthy of any major world city. Just not as tall.

well, word on the grape vine is that AC will be announced in the next 3 weeks?

Just for the record:

"With effect from the 10 February 2003 the CAA ceased to be the contact point for safeguarding consultations falling within the safeguarded area of an officially safeguarded aerodrome.

Further details regarding the transfer of safeguarding can be found from the website of the Office of The Deputy Prime Minister"(this is from the CAA by the way)

So the CAA ruling doesn't apply because the CAA are no longer involved. I am trawling through the ODPM stuff to find something...

And Arena Central will be announced in October by all accounts.

ok that sounds good, but why are all the papers and politicians still quoting the limit? I remember there was a thing on Midlands Today recently where a local councillor said that a building taller than HCT wasnt possible due to the regulations..

a case of the left handing not knowing what the right hand is doing

because BCC impossed a height limit thinking that the CAA required it (which they did)...but then the CAA cooled off n the council still aint said out!!!

Woody - 3 weeks? how positive are you about this? I look forward to it.

P.A Ghostdog, have you just come on here to rustle a few feathers because its certainly working. Manchester might be building just a little bit taller, but you forget, Brum's skyscrapers will look just as tall as yours thanks to the land which we lie on.

Not only that but projects such as the Mailbox, Cube, Fort Dunlop, Eastside, Masshouse, Orion 1 & 2, Holloway Circus Tower, BST, Colmore Plaza, Gun Quarter, Irish Quarter, Westside, Arena Central, Holiday Wharf, Southside, Post Box, Jupiter, Typhoo Wharf, Park Central, City Park Gate, Belgrave Middleway Tower etc arent part of a city with a pathetic approach to projects, nor are they second rate developments which you so politely put it.

:cheers1:

well said

:applause: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse: :horse:

You tell him BC

ghostdog :puke: :runaway:

I reckon Ghostdog is right about the Councillor, Midlands Today and HCT (sounds like a scandal!) - when HCT was granted PP it had to be shortened. But things have changed now and with the amount of proposals on the board at the moment there's no need to worry about regarding Brum's status as a city. The council have seen sense on the tram v underground option and when it boils down to it the main problem with local government is over a library.

Expectations over the height of AC have lowered because of what has happened to HCT. Nothing to do with Birmingham as a city - if Manchester was at the same height as Brum it would be having exactly the same problem if the airport was close. Birmingham has the advantage (and disadvantage) of having a very close major airport and a very central major railway station, and lesser towns and cities would not be able to deliver the quality and scale of project that Birmingham is undertaking now.

Developers are taking tentative steps toward addressing the relaxation of the CAA rulings and Birmingham is the city that is winning the awards for efforts on regeneration - not just national, not just European but global awards. Councils and governments travel from all over the world to see what is happening here.

I don't know whether Ghostdog is from Manchester, and he sounds like a Brummie ex-pat (the frustration) but I do know that this city is confidentally stepping forward with its redevelopment. Many sources say that Birmingham is currently trailing Manchester in terms of trendiness and is a few years behind Manchester in terms of redevelopment, but 15 years ago a sleeping giant woke up from a post-industrial malaise and whilst Birmingham has never lost its crown, it is in the process of making sure it holds on to it.

Birmingham New Street, Rotunda, Arena Central, Brindley Place, Bullring, Broad Street Tower, Library of Birmingham, Mailbox, Cube, Masshouse, Martineau Galleries, HCT, and Park Central are testimony to this.

In a way the second phase of this being better than first thought actually makes the whole thing look replusive, it makes the first phase look even worse and stuck together they look a complete mess. Not the kind of thing that should be going up, theres even mistakes that need to be brought down without adding more to the list.

Looking good from Holloway Circus
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Robdann/Construction/Westside27aug2005.jpg

and here's its arse end
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Robdann/Construction/Westside27thAug2005.jpg

I've just noticed in my first pic that there seems to be a dead body on the grass :runaway:

I got stuck in the traffic so I'm never one to miss a photo oppurtunity......excuse my bug splattered windscreen :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Robdann/Birmingham%204/SkyscraperAlley27aug2005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Robdann/Birmingham%204/SkyscraperAlleyAug27th2005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v173/Robdann/Birmingham%204/SkyscraperAlleyAugust27th2005.jpg

There always a traffic jam there.
Its because every one drives slowly to marvel at HCT!

Is that what the dead guy's doing in my first picture?

:rofl:
good idea for a pic that!

WOW, HOLLOWAY CIRCUS..........F*CKING WOWO ...gr8 improvement from the building site its been for the last 2 years.......who'd of thought it was possibel to sun bath on a trafiic islands lol.......


Westside looking good two...looks massive!

WOW, HOLLOWAY CIRCUS..........F*CKING WOWO ...gr8 improvement from the building site its been for the last 2 years.......who'd of thought it was possibel to sun bath on a trafiic islands lol.......


Westside looking good two...looks massive!

He's probably just passed out after 1 too many.

wasn't there a music venue under that building? Or the old bit at least, is it still going? That was What's his faces Beer Keller wasn't it?

^ There was Mr Bill's BierKeller, and next door, The Foundry, bless its soul. the first pub I ever got served in that was, back in 1998, watching Rootjoose for the first time :(

Saw Muse there for free before they were big as well, in the upstairs bar with about 10 people there. Had to move their guitar strings to get a seat, and me mate nicked a couple of packs. Great days they were.

I don't know whether Ghostdog is from Manchester, and he sounds like a Brummie ex-pat (the frustration) but I do know that this city is confidentally stepping forward with its redevelopment.

Just saw this, you got it pretty much right I'm a brummie born and bred, have been away for a few years but am back for a while. I do get a bit frustrated when I see much smaller cities throughout the world getting better things than my beloved home (eg undergrounds, true skyscrapers etc.) and even more frustrated when I see people's relatively low expectations of the city (we really shouldnt be gushing about stuff like Westside and the Postbox/Jewellry box etc here) but I guess I just need to be a bit more patient... :soon:

I dont know how long ago it was now but I think I was still a teenager when the news of birmingham building "Europe's biggest syskcraper" (AC) was spreading through the city, loads of people I met seemed to be talking about it and there was geniune excitment. This coupled with the plans I heard for a couple of 1000 footers in Paradise forum got me excited about the possibility of Birmingham looking more like the American cities I have always been fascinated by. It's a shame that the reality is a little less exciting and we have four pages dedicated to a 12 storey box and several hundred messages to the vapourware that is AC which, whatever height it comes to, certainly wont now be Europe's tallest scraper.

wel i think GD it was more a cose of too hiher expectations...... it was the rumours of 800ft AC and 1000ft PC towers that got me interested and thats how i found this forum...... btu that was never really going to happen was it!?!?!?!?!? and now, anything that ISN'T a 800ft tower and 1000ft eems a little dissappointed........ however one thing i have learnt from visiting such skyscraper cities is that yes........ skyscrapers are nice......but skyscrapers and only bad skyscrapers can totally ruin a city!!!!