What's the latest crane count? 22?

a hell of a lot.

-

What's the latest crane count? 22?
At the last count, it was 24.

At the last count, it was 24.

I make it 22 as of today - not including the one at Horsforth which is too far out.

I've not been home for a month, but this might be fairly accurate?!?

BWP = 3
Gateway = 4
St James = 4
New York Street apartments = 2
Roberts Mart = 1
Clarence Dock = 2
CityPoint = 1
Protodale = 3
Plaza = 2

Total = 22

I've not been home for a month, but this might be fairly accurate?!?

BWP = 3
Gateway = 4
St James = 4
New York Street apartments = 2
Roberts Mart = 1
Clarence Dock = 2
CityPoint = 1
Protodale = 3
Plaza = 2

Total = 22


Only one at Clarence Dock now

Only one at Clarence Dock now

Is there still one on the office building on Whitehall Road. Ditto at St. Georges Crypt ?



And now folks - where do you think the next cranes will appear ?

I've not been home for a month, but this might be fairly accurate?!?

BWP = 3
Gateway = 4
St James = 4
New York Street apartments = 2
Roberts Mart = 1
Clarence Dock = 2
CityPoint = 1
Protodale = 3
Plaza = 2

Total = 22

BWP = 3
Gateway = 4
St James = 4
New York Street apartments = 2
Roberts Mart = 1
Clarence Dock = 1
CityPoint = 1
Protodale = 3
Plaza = 2
Whitehall Office block = 1
Gt George St apartments = 1

Total, 23

Is there still one on the office building on Whitehall Road. Ditto at St. Georges Crypt ?



And now folks - where do you think the next cranes will appear ?
Could be City Square House. It looked as if something was starting to happen there the other day.

Could be City Square House. It looked as if something was starting to happen there the other day.

I agree.

Yes I noticed changes on the site since I last saw it too. And the fountains in city square were working, as well as the bars looking good in millennium square- everything was in good shape! except someone tried to pickpocket me on the market...
I noticed PC world will be opening underneath Cavendish House and Primark has obviously proved popular. Works also look underway at Allders... Bridgewater Place looked smaller than I expected though- it looks taller on the webcam- well I think it does... Things are starting to come along on Briggate too- good to see that things are coming along, hope the next visit is as promising as this one.

I expect some more cranes soon at Clarence Dock though the Franklin House one will be down soon.

Did anyone spot the new tower crane ?

A brand spanking new 'Comedil' topless too !

try looking around the New Briggate area for a certain large 'cultural' venue.

BWP = 3
Gateway = 4
St James = 4
New York Street apartments = 2
Roberts Mart = 1
Grand Theatre = 1
CityPoint = 1
Protodale = 3
Plaza = 2
Whitehall Office block = 1
Gt George St apartments = 1

23 total.

There is a crane in ...
....wait for it...
Horsforth!

only a nipper mind, but they all count!

Yeah I think we already knew lol. You mean the one next to the station?

That's the baby.

lol! yes..old news! But we'd best enjoy it while it lasts!

Have you noticed how it's in a deep dip so that although it's a decent height for Horsforth you can't tell!



There's also the little tower crane on the Headrow that seems to have been missed... but I best keep quiet about or you'll have me certified and locked up.

There is a crane in ...
....wait for it...
Horsforth!

only a nipper mind, but they all count!

As you have been answered, that is old news. But should we really count it for Leeds ? It is over 6 miles from the city centre - almost as far as Wakefield !

As you have been answered, that is old news. But should we really count it for Leeds ? It is over 6 miles from the city centre - almost as far as Wakefield !
I don't think the crane in Horsforth is counted in the official count... it is just a nice little side. :)


It's not as far out as Wakefield! We frequently walk into the city to shop around from Horsforth.... err.... well sometimes!

I don't think the crane in Horsforth is counted in the official count... it is just a nice little side. :)


It's not as far out as Wakefield! We frequently walk into the city to shop around from Horsforth.... err.... well sometimes!

Keen hikers are you ?

Its not that far from Horsforth- City Centre- I mean its far enough but its not really hiking distance. Its probably the same distance as crossing Harrogate, which I regularly do. The distance you walk in the city centre while shopping is probably more than the walking distance anyway... I've walked Harrogate-Leeds before- and it doesn't take as long as you might initially think- the time goes quite fast anyway.

Keen hikers are you ?

... sometimes. :)




( ..either that or too tight to splash out on a bus ticket. ;) )

Its not that far from Horsforth- City Centre- I mean its far enough but its not really hiking distance. Its probably the same distance as crossing Harrogate, which I regularly do. The distance you walk in the city centre while shopping is probably more than the walking distance anyway... I've walked Harrogate-Leeds before- and it doesn't take as long as you might initially think- the time goes quite fast anyway.

Good for you Leeds No 1. I take it you would think nothing of doing this with a family in tow. Six miles to town. Walking whilst shopping, then six miles back to Horsforth laden with shopping bags, complaining and flagging wife, screaming, exhausted kids. No doubt you would be prepared to do this every Saturday - whatever the weather. But not to worry, the time would go quite fast !

The distance from Horsforth station to Leeds station is more than five miles as the crow flies and probably more than six miles to walk.

Good for you Leeds No 1. I take it you would think nothing of doing this with a family in tow. Six miles to town. Walking whilst shopping, then six miles back to Horsforth laden with shopping bags, complaining and flagging wife, screaming, exhausted kids. No doubt you would be prepared to do this every Saturday - whatever the weather. But not to worry, the time would go quite fast

Blimey Fred, someone got out of bed the wrong side this morning! ;)
What did LN1 say wrong?

yeah well you could get the bus or train back...

Past the crane in Horsforth 5 minutes ago (in the car) looks like the project is nearing completion there.

lol I thought like it looked like it was nearly completed weeks ago.. I think its quite slow moving. What is it anyway? I see it like every 2 weeks when I get the train into Leeds...

Yuppy flats me tinks. Quite snazzy though!

You've walked from Harrogate to Leeds???

That is 15.5 miles!!!! Must take nearly 5 hours!!!!!!!
http://www.multimap.com/map/aproute.cgi?client=public&startx=430257&starty=455258&endx=429828&endy=433981&startrd=&starttown=Harrogate&startpc=&startcountry=GB&endrd=&endtown=Leeds&endpc=&endcountry=GB&rn=GB&qs=q&starttime=09:09&input_rt=aproute_pan&lang=

That's similar for me walking to Middleton from Sale - fucking hell, good effort.

Yeah I know- I didnt walk to Leeds for a day out in Leeds as an alternative to the train/bus though if thats what you thought I meant. It was a day walk type thing- well 1/2 a day...
Also its more like 10-11 miles. 15.5 is from Harrogate Town Centre-Leeds City Centre, bearing in minda tht I didnt start in Harrogate Town Centre or have a final destination of Leeds City Centre (Although I ended up there anyway).
Time = Distance/Speed so 12miles/3mph=4 hours. Average walking speed is 3.5mph or somin, although I probably do more 4, but taking the terrain into account it would have been more like 3. So it takes about 4 hours.

Blimey Fred, someone got out of bed the wrong side this morning! ;)
What did LN1 say wrong?

No. Just making the point to Leeds No 1 that the Horsforth crane is rather a long way from Leeds city centre. He makes light of that - OK, that's his opinion.
I don't think it should be included in the Leeds crane count - that's my opinion.
:)

well its still in Leeds...

well its still in Leeds...


So are Otley and Wetherby etc. (and they are even further away) - so what ?

well this is the Leeds crane count, not the Leeds City Centre crane count, and Wetherby are Otley are in Leeds (Although debated by some), but Horsforth is certainly in Leeds and is well established as Leeds, so shouldn't any crane across Leeds be counted? It is the case that cranes across Manchester, not just the city centre are counted, and probably for other cities.

It is the case that cranes across Manchester, not just the city centre are counted, and probably for other cities.

Our current crane thread only lists those in Manchester City Centre or Salford Quays.

Our current crane thread only lists those in Manchester City Centre or Salford Quays.


Thank you CAW - that's what I thought.

Doesn't make a difference though, it's only one crane! Count it!

I understand where your coming from, but let say a 65 storey monster was to be built in Guiseley (Leeds) whould it come under its own Guiseley thread then?

FUCK MANCHERSTER.....

CAW123 Exackley!!

Well, I think in the future we can expect at least 1 crane at the airport, so would we be counting that? (Just as a more realistic example). Its not very nice to swear btw...

FUCK MANCHERSTER.....

I do wonder what the city of Mancherster has done to upset you! Is this place similar to Manchester at all? :laugh:

Have we got any photos of big groups of cranes in the centre of Leeds?

MANCHESTER IS UP IT'S OWN ARSE, JUST LIKE THE PEOPLE OF MANCHESTER....

Well to an extent I might agree with that but could also apply it to London, but you don't have to say it like that...
Also I'm not sure if there are any good pics of groups of granes in Leeds, but there are groups of cranes in Leeds. Its a similar scenario to the fact that there are good skyline viewpoints from the A61, M1 and M621 yet theres no pictures of the skyline from there so in other words, the only proof is to go and see for yourself in judging these things.

MANCHESTER IS UP IT'S OWN ARSE, JUST LIKE THE PEOPLE OF MANCHESTER....

Without wording it quite like that fair comment, but it is important that we don't make ourselves look like a bunch of wankers here mate. Please don't forget this thread is 'Leeds Crane Count' and we could do without making this thread into another 'Is Leeds playing catch up' thread.

We all have our likes and dislikes about each and every city. We get annoyed when people say 'my city is better than yours', but everyone has a different opinion.

The best way to view your city is to try see it from the outside looking in, not the inside looking out. I was in Leeds last Monday, although I love Leeds, Leeds still has a long way to go before joining the premier league of cities, likewise I feel Manchester has many faults too, but it is nearer to joining the premier league of cities than Leeds is.

So Leeds Lad, be proud of Leeds, but don't talk others down.

Without wording it quite like that fair comment, but it is important that we don't make ourselves look like a bunch of wankers here mate. Please don't forget this thread is 'Leeds Crane Count' and we could do without making this thread into another 'Is Leeds playing catch up' thread.

We all have our likes and dislikes about each and every city. We get annoyed when people say 'my city is better than yours', but everyone has a different opinion.

The best way to view your city is to try see it from the outside looking in, not the inside looking out. I was in Leeds last Monday, although I love Leeds, Leeds still has a long way to go before joining the premier league of cities, likewise I feel Manchester has many faults too, but it is nearer to joining the premier league of cities than Leeds is.

So Leeds Lad, be proud of Leeds, but don't talk others down.


Well said Smartcity. And Leeds lad watch your language.

Be proud of Leeds? This is my city, i was born here and i will die here, i have seen leeds prosper and develop at an outstanding rate, and i will support this city until the end. through my rose coloured lenses this is the best city in this tiny island, i stand back and watch. Manchester is Manchesater, not Leeds....

cough cough, splutter......er well anyway, what was that about cranes pics?

Manchester is Manchesater, not Leeds....

Leeds No.1 made a reference to how we were doing things on the Manchester forum and I merely corrected him. I think I have been civil in this thread but sadly you have not. Your outburst was totally uncalled for.

what has any of this to do with the Leeds crane count, where all fools.... Get a grip.... CUNTS

Be proud of Leeds? This is my city, i was born here and i will die here, i have seen leeds prosper and develop at an outstanding rate, and i will support this city until the end. through my rose coloured lenses this is the best city in this tiny island, i stand back and watch. Manchester is Manchesater, not Leeds....

I am also very proud of Leeds and was born here, I think, much before you, Leeds lad. That does not blind me to the realities - nor does it entitle me to swear. Express your strong opinions by all means, but please don't lower the tone.

we're not where

I would suggest that the Manchester people could quietly leave this thread.

Please let us deal with this idiot in-house. :gunz:

well I'm proud of Leeds and don't live there, infact I wasn't even born in the UK, and have lived in other places other than the north of england. I don't agree that Manchester is particularly ahead of Leeds, because each city does better in different aspects. I do think however, Liverpool and Sheffield are behind Leeds and Manchester, despite Sheffield having some aspects of a large city like an arena.
Where cities rank is a matter of opinion, not fact. For example one city might have double the amount of shopping floorspace but it all might be rubbish charity shops, TKmaxx type things and whatever, so in other words its quality not quantity, and opinion that matters.

Catching up a bit here, you can certainly walk from Horsforth (South side) to Leeds City Centre in about one and a bit hours and have done many times. Horsforth is very much in Leeds and so the crane should count, it is after all a Leeds crane count. However, it must be coming down soon so it won't be a point of contention soon anyway.

And Leeds Lad, don't forget you are a representative of this city that you, I and all of us are so proud of. If you disrespect others, it drags us down to a lower status and that is not what we want. Praise Leeds by all means (as I and others do), but don't pull others down; the contents of this forum will show which is the better place.

Where cities rank is a matter of opinion, not fact. For example one city might have double the amount of shopping floorspace but it all might be rubbish charity shops, TKmaxx type things and whatever, so in other words its quality not quantity, and opinion that matters.

It's not just a matter of opinion as there are a number of objective criteria one can judge by. But look at it another way. Assume all the people in Manchester are as proud of their city as we are of Leeds; they will hands down because there are many more of them than us !! :)

It's not quite like that though, and that just sparks another argument about whether there are more of them than us (or Loiners I should say), when the facts say there are and some opinions don't (or do). Bearing in mind that in this case, most places in Greater Manchester certainly do not count.

It's not quite like that though, and that just sparks another argument about whether there are more of them than us (or Loiners I should say), when the facts say there are and some opinions don't (or do). Bearing in mind that in this case, most places in Greater Manchester certainly do not count.

Oh dear Leeds No 1 - back to this same old and stale argument. Greater Manchester (which does include outlying places like Wigan and Rochdale) = 2.5 million. Leeds (which also includes outlying places like Otley and Wetherby) = 715,000. No contest !

If people are going to compare the populations of the respective cities or conurbations at least use the same criteria. To say Manchester has a pop of 2.5m and Leeds just 0.71m is a ridiculous as saying Leeds (0.71m) is nearly twice the size of Manchester (0.4m pop of the MDC of Manchester). The likes of Bury, Bolton, Rochdale and Wigan are no more a part of Manchester than Wakefield, Dewsbury, Huddersfield etc are a part of Leeds.

The ‘core’ cities of the respective conurbations show that Manchester has a pop of about 1.3m and Leeds about 0.7m. If you widen this out to the conurbations that the cities dominate then Manchester’s is about 2.3m and Leeds about 1.5m

Manchester is a larger city than Leeds, no one would dispute this, but when people say it pop is 2.5m I have to laugh!

Oh no Groundhog day....

Oh no Groundhog day....


Thought it might be, being new to the forum!

There is so much crap spouted about the pop of the respective cities with people from both manipulating the figures to suit there views.

I am not saying I am the number one authority but I have a degree in Urban Studies and part of my dissertation compared the two cities. The figures I have cited above are what I used after doing research and were generally used by academics circa 1995 (doubt they have changed much in the last decade).

Thought it might be, being new to the forum!

There is so much crap spouted about the pop of the respective cities with people from both manipulating the figures to suit there views.

I am not saying I am the number one authority but I have a degree in Urban Studies and part of my dissertation compared the two cities. The figures I have cited above are what I used after doing research and were generally used by academics circa 1995 (doubt they have changed much in the last decade).

Well there has been the 2001 census since then - better to use more up-to-date figures than 1995 (which were probaly only the 1991 census fifures anyway). This is still a silly and pointless argument. Just look at any good motoring map and see the respective size of the Manchester and Leeds conurbations. Disregard the administrative boundaries - these are completely artificial - unless you are a council tax payer !

The good point about this is that Leeds, pro rata, is doing very well.

This has nothing to do with the census figures which work on MDC’s and County Councils, it is how the academics work out the ‘city’ and ‘conurabtion’ populations which are different from simply quoting MDC’s or CC figures. Anyway the census figures for 1991 and 2001 are not that different, neither area has seen a significant change over that decade.

You are right about the administrative boundaries being irrelevant. The Leeds conurbation figure is not worked out on the pop of West Yorks just as the Manchester pop is not worked out on the GM figure as both counties include areas that are not part of the conurbation. The local government re-org of 1974 shoved into both West Yorks and GM towns that were not part of the conurbations but were included for administrative reasons i.e it was better to put then in those counties than others for the sake of costs when providing local services.

Regarding the ‘Core City’ this is worked out on the immediate area that the cities dominate. In the case of Manchester this includes the likes of Salford and Stretford and Leeds includes the likes of Pudsey and Morley. It doesn’t include satellite towns that whilst being part of the conurbation, have a relatively strong independence i.e Stockport and Wakefield.

I agree that Manchester is far larger than Leeds as my figures stated but if you are saying Manchester has a pop of 2.5m you are including an awful lot of people that live in independent towns in GM whilst omitting similar towns in West Yorks when quoting Leeds a figure of 0.71m.

Oh no Groundhog day....

OK Simon. Look at it another way. The number of people who look to Manchester city centre as their premier local shopping, leisure and cultural centre. what they call 'going to town'. Compare that number with any similar number regarding Leeds.

Anyone using that phrase living in, say, Bowden a suburb of Stockport, and even places in North Cheshire beyond the Greater Manchester boundary, will mean Manchester city centre. Anyone living in, say, Idle a suburb of Bradford, or Wrenthorpe a suburb of Wakefield, will mean Bradford city centre or Wakefield city centre respectively, and NOT Leeds.

I do tire of Manchester/Leeds debates. I love Leeds, but face facts, Manchester is bigger. Go there. Why does it matter about population size? Leeds needs first and foremost to get over it's inferiority complex about big brother Manchester and get on with trying to go 'up a league'.
If you wish to quarrel about statistics, I'm afraid that Fred is right. Bradford IS Bradford - not Leeds.

news hot off the press - one of the Gateway cranes has disappeared. Boo hiss, down to 21 cranes in Leeds City Centre (not including Horsforth - which patently isn't in the City Centre). Back on thread please chaps.

Do the people of Bolton, Rochdale, Wigan and call town Manchester city centre? I think not, I have friends who live in Wigan and Bolton and they call town their local centre. Again you are not comparing like with like.

Bradford and Wakefield are not part of the core city of Leeds, just as the towns above are not part of the core city of Manchester. And just as you mention places in Cheshire there are places beyond West Yorks that will call going into town, going to Leeds. I have lived in a couple.

Further the vast majority of people in Bradford, Wakefield and other towns will consider Leeds as the premier premier local shopping, leisure and cultural centre of the area.

This is all academic anyway. You keep believing and quoting what you think is right. I’ll stick to the criteria that university academics use…………….is the fact I have said the core city pop of Manchester it nearly twice that of Leeds not enough? I know Mancs like to beat their chests but this is getting daft!

I do tire of Manchester/Leeds debates. I love Leeds, but face facts, Manchester is bigger. Go there. Why does it matter about population size? Leeds needs first and foremost to get over it's inferiority complex about big brother Manchester and get on with trying to go 'up a league'.
If you wish to quarrel about statistics, I'm afraid that Fred is right. Bradford IS Bradford - not Leeds.


I have said Manchester is far bigger but if people are going to compare the two cities, be it the core city or conurbation they must compare like with like. There is so much ignorance, people see figures quoted in the press and the like, then is it any wonder that people get into debates.

Fred is not right, he is not comparing like with like. You believe him if you want. I'll stick to what I studied in at Uni :)

I also have had various doses of academia so you are not unique Simon. Anyway you have got me wrong I live in Leeds and am Leeds born (77 years ago) and bred and proud of the city - but not blinkered. The pop of the built up area of Leeds is c 500,000. What is the pop of the contiguous built up area of Manchester ? Of course there are many overlaps but the number of people who mean Manchester when they say 'going to town', in the sense that I have defined it, is much larger than those referring to Leeds in that way.

Well for most West Yorkshire towns, Leeds is seen as the premier shopping destination. Here in Harrogate, the word 'town' is rareley used. More people go to Leeds for shopping and leisure than Harrogate, and Harrogate is reffered to as Harrogate not town, to avoid confusion between Leeds and Harrogate. In other words that is not a relelvant point to make. With or without Salford, Manchesters population for the core urban area is still smaller than Leeds- add it up.

The contiguous built up area does not define a core city population, it is more complex.

My research was on the what other academics defined as the core city pop, I didn't decide it myself.

Anyway I have said all I want to say on this. I'll leave the thread to the cranes!

PS. Sorry for calling you a Manc, bit of an insult to a Loiner!

Simon - how the DfT (and therefore presumably) the government see it, since these are the people that make decisions on our lives, e.g. whether to build a tram line etc. I'd suggest their opinion on the matter is somewhat more important, in reality, than ours.

Anyway..

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_transstats/documents/page/dft_transstats_505711.hcsp

A few quotes...

in the West Midlands, Coventry is completely separate from the main built-up area around Birmingham;

in Greater Manchester, Wigan, Bolton, Bury and Rochdale are separate from the main built-up area around Manchester;

on Merseyside, the river Mersey separates the Wirral from the rest of the area;

South Yorkshire includes the separate conurbations of Sheffield, Rotherham, Barnsley and Doncaster.

West Yorkshire includes the separate conurbations of Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Wakefield, and Halifax;

in Tyne & Wear, the river Tyne divides Newcastle and North Tyneside from Gateshead and South Tyneside, while Sunderland lies further south on the river Wear.



Followed by...

# West Midlands: has the highest population (just over 2.6 million), the highest population density (29 people per hectare) and the highest average earnings and GDP per head. It has the highest daily traffic flows on its major roads (28 thousand vehicles in 1998), and the highest number of cars registered per thousand population. It also has the highest annual number of bus journeys.
# Greater Manchester: the population is just under 2.6 million, very close to that of West Midlands. It has the largest number of households, approaching 1.1 million. It also has the highest proportion of its workforce travelling to work by car (75 per cent) and has the largest increase over the last ten years in cars registered per head of population.
# Merseyside: has experienced the greatest population decline between 1981 and 1996of nearly 7 per cent. It has suffered the largest decrease in employment, down 10 per cent since 1987, and has the lowest GDP per head of population. Its major roads have the lowest average daily traffic flow (20 thousand vehicles in 1996).
# South Yorkshire: had the lowest population density in 1996, at 8 people per hectare. Over the last ten years it has experienced the greatest increase in traffic flows on its major roads, but it has one of the lowest rates of total road casualties per thousand population.
# West Yorkshire: experienced a 2 per cent population increase between 1981 and1996, while population fell in all the other former metropolitan counties. It has the largest land area, and a low population density (10 per hectare). It has seen the highest increase in employment, up 4 per cent since 1987.
# Tyne & Wear: has the smallest population (1.1 million in 1996) and the smallest area. It also has the lowest average household size at 2.33 persons per household. It has the highest proportion of its workforce travelling to work by public transport - 18 per cent by bus and coach and 3 per cent by rail, according to the 1997 Labour Force Survey. It has the lowest number of cars registered per thousand population (272).


So, whatever, mine our your opinion on the status of certain places is, the government (DfT) specifically consider the areas to have the characteristics as described above.

news hot off the press - one of the Gateway cranes has disappeared. Boo hiss, down to 21 cranes in Leeds City Centre (not including Horsforth - which patently isn't in the City Centre). Back on thread please chaps.

For the record -

BWP = 3
Gateway = 3
St James = 4
New York Street apartments = 2
Roberts Mart = 1
Clarence Dock = 1
CityPoint = 1
Protodale = 3
Plaza = 2
Whitehall Office block = 1
Gt George St apartments = 1

Total, 22 (excluding Horsforth)

Expect new ones at City Sq House, Robert's Wharf and perhaps Clarence Dock budget Hotel soon.

Clarence Dock is down is it not ? Others for La Salle etc will soon go up however.

Clarence Dock is down is it not ? Others for La Salle etc will soon go up however.

He has missed out the Grand Theatre on his list, so that will still be 22.

He has missed out the Grand Theatre on his list, so that will still be 22.

indeed - Clarence Dock was gone on Sunday, but the flat topped Grand Theatre crane is definately up and running on Harrison Street. Also expect a crane at Clarence Dock Holiday Inn Express and City Square House where the demolition works seem to have pretty much finished.

When is city square house due for completion?

Metrolink, my view is not my view (how many times do I have say it!) but that taken from academic texts of numerous sources in the mid-1990’s. If I still had access to Sheffield Hallam universities libraries I could quote you a source or two. The initial quotes you cite simply describe the geographical characteristics of the conurbations of England and are of course correct. But the geographical outlay alone of an area does not determine a core city area. I am not sure what the relevance of the second seris of quotes to anything I have said is though?

In the final year of my degree I did a 12,000 word dissertation on Manchester’s ambition to become a major European city (on a par with Barcelona, Milan, Lyon etc) and part of the study was to compare Manchester with it nearest rivals in England and Wales, which economically are Birmingham and Leeds. The ‘core’ city area of a region does not depend entirely on the continuous built up area around a city (would even the most patriotic Brummie claim that Wolverhampton or Walsall was part of Birmingham?) which some people seem to base their views on, neither is it determined by MDC boundaries which others seem to use. The size of the primary centre and it’s dominance over the surrounding area and the extent of that dominance determine the core city area, the fact an area is joined to main city by a continuous built up area is irrelevant (it will be of course when making certain decisions with regards to planning or transport as the info you cite on that post is probably relating to). The extent of the dominance is also determined by the relative independence of the other satelite centres so whilst Oldham and Stockport are part of the main GM conurbation they are classed as sufficiently independent to be not part of the core city (although because of the arbitary way in which MDC boundaries were drawn up in 1974 parts of Oldham and Stockport MDC’s are classed as part of the core city). Stretford and Salford on the other hand are part of the core city as Manchester’s dominance over them is far greater. Such criteria are used the world over, eg New York has a core city pop of about 7m whilst the greater NY area pop is around 17m.

People are certainly entitled to disagree with me but what I am saying is not something I thought up in my own head recently!

BTW – the conclusion of my study was that Manchester had little chance of realising it’s ambitions although they are far better than those of Leeds which hold similar ambitions.

OK Simon. So how, in your 12,000 word dissertation, did you find the centres of Manchester and Leeds compare ?

You know, people in Oldham or Stockport, when they want to shop in Harvey Nichols, will not think of looking for such a store in their respective towns - it will be to the Manchester store that they will go. Similarly, music lovers in those two towns will not be primarily drawn to a Saturday night concert in their respective town halls. It will be to the Bridgewater Hall that they will travel. In each of these two typical cases it is going 'to town' for the good citizens of Oldham and Stockport. This is NOT the case with, say, Leeds and Bradford.

So someone from Bradford looking to shop in Harvey Nics will wander the streets of Bradford and not nip on a train to Leeds!!??? Someone from Wakefield when wanting to see a play will wander the streets of Wakefield and not go to the Leeds playhouse!!???

Your whole arguments do not compare like with like. I would suggest to you that if there were a few housing estates linking up south Leeds and north Wakefield you would consider Wakey to be part of Leeds. This seems to be the premiss you are working on when declaring Stockport of Oldham to be part of the core city area of Manchester. It is more complex mate.

The centre of Leeds dominates, economically and culturally, the likes Wakefield in a similar way to Manchester dominates the likes of Stockport. The fact the satellite towns of Leeds do not form one continuous built up area does not make the dominance of Leeds any less.

So someone from Bradford looking to shop in Harvey Nics will wander the streets of Bradford and not nip on a train to Leeds!!??? Someone from Wakefield when wanting to see a play will wander the streets of Wakefield and not go to the Leeds playhouse!!???

Your whole arguments do not compare like with like. I would suggest to you that if there were a few housing estates linking up south Leeds and north Wakefield you would consider Wakey to be part of Leeds. This seems to be the premiss you are working on when declaring Stockport of Oldham to be part of the core city area of Manchester. It is more complex mate.
The centre of Leeds dominates, economically and culturally, the likes Wakefield in a similar way to Manchester dominates the likes of Stockport. The fact the satellite towns of Leeds do not form one continuous built up area does not make the dominance of Leeds any less.


Yes but someone from Bradford going to shop in Leeds Harvey Nick's will not say they are 'going to town' but 'going to Leeds'. Is that the case with the good citizens of Oldham and Stockport ? And it so happens that there aren't any estates linking Wakefield with Leeds - still lots of green fields (and rhubarb farms) between them. Also Oldham and Stockport are in Greater Manchester. Wakefield (and Bradford etc.) are quite separate administratively from Leeds.

But, Simon, you still haven't told us what your research shows about the relative attributes of Manchester and Leeds city centres.

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall Fred!

Yes there aren't any estates linking Leeds and Wakefield, what I said was that if there were you would probably consider Wakey to be part of Leeds. It is not about what someone in Wakey or Oldham considers to be 'going into town', if most academics used that argument much research wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on.

As for Greater Manchester it is nothing more than a name as I have said it covers large areas that even the most patriotic Manc would have trouble saying are part of ‘Manchester’. Manchester has no more control over any of the other MDC’s of that county that Leeds does over the MDC’s surrounding it. This point you have made is completely irrelevant.

As for the relative attributes of the two centres, without going into too much detail Manchester is obviously far larger in terms of office and retail space, it is the second largest commercial centre in Britain, just ahead of B’ham. Economically is it more powerful than Leeds and undoubtedly benefits from the location of its truly international airport which raises the profile of the city globally (this was one of the key advantages the city has over both Leeds and B’ham). It has a far greater concentration of both head and regional head offices than Leeds and perhaps more importantly more international firms locate their. When questioned many of the directors of these overseas firms would cite the airport as the key factor in their choice of location. This is highlighted further by the boom in the office market in the south of the conurbation. Overall the city is looking to compete with B’ham for the title of Second City, something Leeds cannot hope to do at the moment. That said Leeds is probably top of the next rank of cities that includes Liverpool, Newcastle and Sheffield and has enough positive attributes to be considered a threat to Manchester in terms of attracting business. Eg. It’s proximity to east coast ports and the likely increase in UK trade with the EU would encourage more distribution firms to locate in the Leeds area. Also it’s excellent legal and financial services were more than a match for Manchester and in the legal sector it was considered in the mid-1990’s that the city would soon reach a critical mass in that area so that most law firms looking to move out from London would automatically choose the city for a northern base, whether this has been achieved now I don’t know? Culturally Manchester is also superior to Leeds in terms of theatres, music and broadcasting although the shopping and light entertainment (bars/restaurants) faciltities of both cities compare favourably. Overall Manchester had and indeed still has more going for it than Leeds at the moment there is no denying this.

All this said both cities and indeed every city in the UK suffers from the dominance of London (one of the 3 dominant ‘World Cities’ the others being New York and Tokyo), both culturally and economically and none of them can ever really hope to compete with the likes of Barcelona and Milan because of this dominance.

So Leeds and indeed Manchester keep dreaming about becoming a major European city, it aint going to happen any time soon!

As for the relative attributes of the two centres, without going into too much detail Manchester is obviously far larger in terms of office and retail space, it is the second largest commercial centre in Britain, just ahead of B’ham. Economically is it more powerful than Leeds and undoubtedly benefits from the location of its truly international airport which raises the profile of the city globally (this was one of the key advantages the city has over both Leeds and B’ham). It has a far greater concentration of both head and regional head offices than Leeds and perhaps more importantly more international firms locate their. When questioned many of the directors of these overseas firms would cite the airport as the key factor in their choice of location. This is highlighted further by the boom in the office market in the south of the conurbation. Overall the city is looking to compete with B’ham for the title of Second City, something Leeds cannot hope to do at the moment. That said Leeds is probably top of the next rank of cities that includes Liverpool, Newcastle and Sheffield and has enough positive attributes to be considered a threat to Manchester in terms of attracting business. Eg. It’s proximity to east coast ports and the likely increase in UK trade with the EU would encourage more distribution firms to locate in the Leeds area. Also it’s excellent legal and financial services were more than a match for Manchester and in the legal sector it was considered in the mid-1990’s that the city would soon reach a critical mass in that area so that most law firms looking to move out from London would automatically choose the city for a northern base, whether this has been achieved now I don’t know? Culturally Manchester is also superior to Leeds in terms of theatres, music and broadcasting although the shopping and light entertainment (bars/restaurants) faciltities of both cities compare favourably. Overall Manchester had and indeed still has more going for it than Leeds at the moment there is no denying this.



Thank you Simon - and doesn't this have a teeny weeny bit to do with the relative populations ? As a proud Leeds 'Loiner' or 'Leodensian', this is one of the realities of life I urge people to accept - with grace. (And don't bang your head too much Simon - it will hurt !) :)

That said Leeds is probably top of the next rank of cities that includes Liverpool, Newcastle and Sheffield
Oh come on! Leeds is way above in ranking of all these cities! These are more equal to Bradford. Leeds is one of the top ranking cities in the UK and no twisting of words is going to change that. If Leeds were not a valid rival to Manchester why would we so frequently get so many hot headed Mancs irrelevantly diving in and invading topics on here fighting for their lost corner!


Yes there aren't any estates linking Leeds and Wakefield, what I said was that if there were you would probably consider Wakey to be part of Leeds.
Eh?

Wakefield is not part of Leeds... pont blank it's just not. It is not a matter of just tieing it to Leeds with a strip of buildings! If that were so Bradford would also be Leeds... wich it is not... it is Bradford.


Yep... Groundhog day indeed! I wondered why cranes had become such a hot topic! Worried me for a moment that you'd all been overcome by a serious bout of Autism! ;)

The fact Manchester is superior does not add any weight to the argument that it’s pop is roughly 4 times that of Leeds though which some people seem, yourself included, say is the case. Indeed if its pop was 4 times that of Leeds you would expect Manchester to be far far more dominant over it’s neighbour. I have already stated that the pop of the core city is twice that of Leeds and that Manchester is superior economically and culturally, I would never deny this because it is true. However when comparing populations people have to use the same criteria for both cities.

Molly,

Leeds is superior to the 3 cities economically and commercially but culturally there are strong arguments that it is lagging behind the other 3. You seem the passionate sought who loves Leeds but often you have to take a step back when comparing our city with others. Leeds should aim to compete with Manchester but this doesn’t deny the fact that Manchester is way ahead in many areas. This is something to be ashamed of, it should spur the city on, we should be proud of the fact that we have caught up with Manchester over the last 15 years. In the 1970’s and 80’s Manchester dominance over Leeds was far greater than it is now.

BTW – none of those 3 is anything like Bradford, they are all streets ahead. Lets not be daft!

As for my point on Wakefield you don’t understand what I am saying, Wakefield is not part of Leeds and Oldham is not part of Manchester. Indeed I remember going to Uni with a couple of lads from Oldham and neither of then said they lived in Manchester, they lived in Oldham.

Oh sorry I've not read all your posts... just your last one.... I look at quality of life..... schools services etc... local attractions etc... city layout and attractiveness.... climate... and property prices and good property investment... etc... etc... and prospects for the future rather than historical placement and total population to rank a city. Over crowding in my mind would not be an asset. ;)

My personal preference would be that Leeds offers a better quality of life even than London and certainly Manchester.... which places it as a high ranking UK city. The placement of Mancherster and London is historical.. this does not mean they have as bright a future as an up and comimg city like Leeds. Regarding the aspects of life that matter Leeds is a top rate city to live in. This is why I choose to live in Leeds and not in Manchester. :)

As for Liverpool, Newcastle and Sheffield.. the location and geography of their areas lets them down... so I doubt they will have the potential for such bright futures. Being attatched to Leeds actually offers Bradford a better future because with a little more demolition it would not be such a bad place to live. ;)

Simon - see what I mean about accepting the realities of life with grace ?

I have already stated that the pop of the core city is twice that of Leeds and that Manchester is superior economically and culturally, I would never deny this because it is true.

Again, thank you Simon. Whether it is 4x or just 2x, you agree it is considerably larger. In which case I again say that, pro rata, Leeds is doing well.

Fred I have no idea what you are on about with me accepting the realities of life with grace! I presume you think I have changed my views in this little debate which I haven’t far from it.

From the very start no where on this thread have I denied that Manchester is considerably larger than Leeds or that economically, commercially and culturally it is superior to Leeds. I simply replied to your post which used one set of criteria to define the pop of Manchester and another to define that of Leeds. I do think however that my arguments on the pop of the relative cities hold a little more depth than yours old boy ;-)

Lets leave it at that, even I am getting bored of this now!

All I was saying yesterday with my link to the DfT web site is the people that make important decisions, such as transport infrastructure, see the cities as described in that article.

Some time ago someone posted popultation density maps of all the major conurbations, i.e. all the metropolitan areas, they were very interesting and very informative. If someone could find them again I would be very grateful.

Since there is no agreed definition of what a city is, isn't is pointless even trying to say that the population of x is y whilst the population of a is b.

For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds makes Manchester about 6 times the size of Leeds, however, using strict political boundaries Leeds is nearly 2 times the size of Manchester.

We all know the reality is somewhere in between, after all some bits of places in Rochdale (e.g. Middleton) are well and truely part of Manchester, whereas some parts of Leeds it is questionable if they are in Leeds, for example Selby, Morely etc.

Surely, for the purpose of this discussion forum - i.e. about cities and their infrastructure, the important thing is what business and governments view that particular 'city'. For example, if the DfT considered Manchester to be 6 boroughs in one conurbation, with 4 'satalite' towns, then the style and requirements of a transport infrastructure will be very different from that of say Leeds that is (as far as the DfT are concerned) a seperate city from the other towns / cities in west yorkshire.

So, in my opinion, you are never going to agree on which city is bigger and by how much, as quite simply, depending on how you decide to measure the size you'll get different results, the important thing is how business / government view the respective areas.

Fred I have no idea what you are on about with me accepting the realities of life with grace!
I do think however that my arguments on the pop of the relative cities hold a little more depth than yours old boy ;-)

Lets leave it at that, even I am getting bored of this now!

When I wrote that it was not referring to you, but to others on this thread who will not accept, with grace, that Manchester is larger (and in many areas) better than Leeds.

OK, old boy, I bow to your superior (academic) knowledge, and I do agree it is getting boring ! :)

I'm pretty sure Manchester is ahead of Leeds, Leeds may be just ahead of Liverpool, and both are ahead of Newcastle and Sheffield, which are all ahead of Bradford, Nottingham and Leicester (looking at commercial, cultural, population, and of course built environment). Of the eight chosen core cities (Bris, Birm, Nott, Sheff, Liv, Man, Leeds, Newc), Leeds and Manchester are the two that are highlighted as being of European significance.

Anyway - update -

BWP = 3
Gateway = 3
St James = 4
New York Street apartments = 2
Roberts Mart = 1
Grand Theatre = 1
CityPoint = 1
Protodale = 3
Plaza = 2
Whitehall Office block = 1
Gt George St apartments = 1

Total, 22 (excluding Horsforth)

if you are talking cranes then manc is the front runner with over 50 in the city centre alone! Anyhoo, keep those cranes a coming, you're halfway to manc levels, but there is a lot of development on the way for yas, so you never know!!

Leeds should aim to compete with Manchester but this doesn’t deny the fact that Manchester is way ahead in many areas. This is something to be ashamed of, it should spur the city on, we should be proud of the fact that we have caught up with Manchester over the last 15 years. In the 1970’s and 80’s Manchester dominance over Leeds was far greater than it is now.
Simon, I agree with most of what you've written but I disagree with this statement. In my opinion there has been no "catching up". Yes, I agree that Leeds is no longer as dominated by Manchester as it once was, but I'll give you a very simplified and exaggerated example to make my point clear.

Imagine X = 2 and Y = 4. Y is 2 greater than X, but is twice the size. Major "domination" I'd say. Imagine, then, that both grow. Now X = 10 and Y = 12. The gap between the two is still 2, so X has not closed the gap at all, but now the difference between the two is only 20% rather than 100%, so the perceived "dominance" no longer exists. This is basically how I see the development of Leeds and Manchester.

EB - I think a better analogy would be x=2 and y=4 at the start, i.e. difference of 100% or 2, by the end x=6 and y=9, i.e. the gap is still expaning, but Leeds is appearing to do better due to the low start, Leeds is doing well, very well, however, this seems to forget the fact Manchester is also, see the crane count for an idea of developments, BBC move, tram expansion, rapidly growing airport, M60 increasing capacity, 76k sports stadium, political parties adding the city to their conference locations... the list goes on. I am sure Leeds could also point to some strong growth areas, however, I'd suggest very few of them are actually ever going to catch Manchester up, e.g. arena.

picked a bad example there- an arena will probably be built in Leeds soon, and while smaller than Manchester's, it promises to be of much higher and more modern quality. As for the airport, Leeds' is also growing- growing too fast really in that the building's/stand areas aren't big enough proved by the fact that the 2nd runway had to close, although the problem will be lessened. I don't think its a good thing about the M60 at all so I don't see your point, but the M1/M62 are also being widened... so...

picked a bad example there- an arena will probably be built in Leeds soon, and while smaller than Manchester's, it promises to be of much higher and more modern quality.

Don't be silly.


Let's keep this thread about LEEDS CRANES people. If you want to start a thread about how cities should be defined, feel free to do so in the City Talk section of the forum. No more posts about anything other than cranes - please?

picked a bad example there- an arena will probably be built in Leeds soon, and while smaller than Manchester's, it promises to be of much higher and more modern quality. As for the airport, Leeds' is also growing- growing too fast really in that the building's/stand areas aren't big enough proved by the fact that the 2nd runway had to close, although the problem will be lessened. I don't think its a good thing about the M60 at all so I don't see your point, but the M1/M62 are also being widened... so...
Newer doesn't mean higher quality. The MEN is consistently amongst the top 5 arenas in the world for quality and is consistently the top arena in the world for events.

Secondly, airport. If the airport was expected to require the capacity then it would be built. New stands and check-in desks are being built at MAN, with rumours flying around about a new terminal.

Your final point about motorways, well when you have an orbital motorway then maybe it's expansion could be compared. :)

Oh dear we have attracted the Manchester critics ! We have enough of our own, including me - but I hope my strictures arise out of affection and concern for my old home town, Leeds. In spite of everything I can complain about and decry, it is doing well pro rata compared to Manchester.

Those are all such crappy Earlybird things to say. I don't know why you waste your time saying things that don't mean anything especially when it will be ignored as this is in the Leeds forum, not the Manchester forum although I'm sure with your logic Manchester is probably part of Leeds.

Never bloody ends!

I would ask how many of those 50 cranes are actually in manchester!


I wont though, hence the exclamation and not question mark.

grego - not answering you, just making a point, if you are going to use the ludicrous political boundaries about 50 of them are in 'Manchester' - ther are actually getting on for 60 in the city centre, of which a couple or over the Irwell.

Point of order, if we are going to insisit on seperating Manchester and Salford, the presumably Salford Quays comes into the equation.

If this were the case, and we are comparing the city to into account the position of where the cities were in 15 years ago, then Salford is blasting away both Manchester and Leeds - see the Quays, Irwell side of city centre, plus they even have a tram line!!!

EarlyBird, ref Manchester dominance of Leeds 20/30 years ago, it was greater then. Manchester has a far longer history of being a major commercial centre than Leeds and pre-1990 was undoubtedly the number one choice for many firms choosing to open a regional head office in the North, this isn’t the case any more, Leeds, through clever, astute marketing and work by the council and other bodies such as the LDA has muscled in on what in the 1970’s Manchester would have considered to be it’s business by right. Look also how Harvey Nics chose Leeds for it first store outside London, they simply would not have considered Leeds in the 1980’s. My mum and auntie used to often travel from Leeds to go shopping in Manchester in the 1970’s, they don’t feel the need to now!

Also Leeds has pushed it ‘city region’ area further west into what was previously Manchester’s area as a result of it’s growth. In the 1970’s Manchester hegemony covered a large part of West Yorkshire, this isn’t the case any more, further sign that Leeds has caught up Manchester. Leeds has also been pushing its city region further north and in the mid 1990’s when I did my studies there was evidence that Leeds was taking business away from Newcastle, 90 miles north.

Leeds now has a critical mass in many areas of business that it didn’t have pre-1990 such as the banking, financial and legal sector. This allows it to compete to a more level playing field with Manchester. I doubt that Leeds will ever catch Manchester, as the latter has one major advantage, its airport. It also has a higher pop but this alone does not preclude dominance, Frankfurt in Germany is a real powerhouse of a city compared to the likes of Hamburg yet is has half the population. History is also important, since the industrial revolution Manchester has been seen by the wider country as the industrial, cultural and commercial capital of the north. Such views are hard to change overnight and tend to be self perpetuating. Other more obscure factors such as Manchester Uniteds continuing presence in the Champions League raise the profile of the city throughout the major cities of Europe.


Anyway the north is big enough for 2 cities to dominate, Manchester in the west and Leeds in the east. The region has a pop greater than that of many European countries such as the Netherlands and Switzerland and a vast market of people to draw upon. The future is bright for both cities.

oh no Groundhog day...

Other more obscure factors such as Manchester Uniteds continuing presence in the Champions League raise the profile of the city throughout the major cities of Europe.

There is little to find fault with in your detailed analysis, Simon, but the obscure factor you allude to is not necessarily so obscure and insignificant. Football is very big business and MU is on of the most suceessful of clubs both on the field and financially. Those soccer millionaires living in North Cheshire must certainly be having an effect on house prices and the local economy generally. Needless to say no such effect in Leeds !

Indeed Fred - why is the football industry obscure?

It is a mature and stable industry in this country, in Greater Manchester alone there must be over 250 professional footballers earning anything from 20k / year to 120k / week.

Manchester United alone employ over 500 other staff to run the club, the turnover of such businesses is huge - bigger than many businesses I'd guess you'd consider to be not obscure.

Do you consider the financial city of London to be obscure since that is an industry that several people earn very large amounts of money from?

As Fred points out, Manchester benifits greatly from Manchester United, you try booking a hotel room in the city when there is a home game (even try for tonight with England playing another home game at Manchester United's home ground) - the impact on the Manchester economy for the 2 England games, and the RL final on Saturday is estimated at being over £100m - hardly obscure.

I do find it strange that somehow people seem fame, or economic impact due to the football industry as some how being of less meaning than from other industries such as financial markets etc.

It is an obscure factor and relatively unimportant compared to others, it would certainly be near the bottom of any table of factors in the success of the local economy. Put it this way if Manchester United went bankrupt tomorrow the effect on the economy of the area would be negligible, you would hardly notice it. The GDP of GM is about £30bn per year.

The effect in marketing the city across Europe is far more important than the direct financial impact on the local economy. Put it this way the impact of Manchester United not qualifying for the CL for 10 years would probably have more of an impact on the local economy that them getting relegated, losing 20 millionaire players and the associated drop in turnover.

Business does not care what comp a football team is playing in or it’s fame but the business leaders of Milan, Lyon and Frankfurt who see the name ‘Manchester’ plasterered on their TV screens will have the profile of the city raised in their minds.

if you are talking cranes then manc is the front runner with over 50 in the city centre alone! Anyhoo, keep those cranes a coming, you're halfway to manc levels, but there is a lot of development on the way for yas, so you never know!!

This thread has nothing about Manchester... it is simply a basic update to track the ups and downs of the crane population in Leeds city centre area...that is the middle bit of the city rather than the boring edge bits.



it is not a highly interesting thread nor in any way a controversial thread...

nor is it even possible to have any remotely interesting debate about the topic... a crane is a crane...

( ....although of course they come in several different types, sizes and colours. ) But this thread not only limits itself to cranes, and at that cranes in the middle bit of the city... but also only includes tower cranes... so how exciting is that!

The GDP of GM is about £30bn per year..

That is with a total population of 2.4 million. Can you tell us the GDP of Leeds with 0.715 million population ?

I think it's about £10bn and predicted to rise by 30% in the next 6-7 years. This growth is predicted to be both higher than the regional and national average.

£13bn according to no 'ordinary city' web site

Accordsing to http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_economy/NUTS3_Tables_1-12.xls

it has the following GVA figures (2002)...


Greater Manchester 36470
Greater Manchester South 23884 (Trafford, Stockport, Salford, Tameside and Manchester)
Greater Manchester North 12586 (Wigan, Rochdale, Bury, Bolton and Oldham)

- massive north / south divide in the 'city'.



West Yorkshire 30767

Bradford 6083
Leeds 13114
Calderdale, Kirklees and Wakefield 11569

Well one Leeds city council document cites it as £10bn with a predicted rise to £13bn in the next 8 years.

A Northern Way doc cites it as £12.5bn in 2003 and predicted to rise to £13.7bn by next year

Just goes to show there are lies, damned lies and statistics. To be honest from reading both docs the Northern Way one looks more reliable as it cites specific figures for the whole region. That said you wouldn’t expect our city council to get it wrong!

Metrolinks source backs up the £13bn figure so I reckon that’s correct one.

This also shows that the GDP per head is remarkably similar for GM and West Yorks and both are only behind Cheshire in the whole of the north which highlights the success of both Leeds and Manchester. If you take Leeds MDC on it's own this is higher than Cheshire though.

Whichever figures are correct I think it still bears out what I have been saying many times; that Leeds is doing very well po rata with Manchester !

Accordsing to http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_economy/NUTS3_Tables_1-12.xls

it has the following GVA figures (2002)...


Greater Manchester 36470
Greater Manchester South 23884 (Trafford, Stockport, Salford, Tameside and Manchester)
Greater Manchester North 12586 (Wigan, Rochdale, Bury, Bolton and Oldham)

- massive north / south divide in the 'city'.


West Yorkshire 30767

Bradford 6083
Leeds 13114
Calderdale, Kirklees and Wakefield 11569


I note form these figures that Leeds GDP is pro rata with that of the more affluent Greater Manchester South. Do the maths ! :)

Second crane went up at the theatre this weekend,
new update;

BWP = 3
Gateway = 3
St James = 4
New York Street apts = 2
Roberts Mill apts = 1
Grand Theatre = 2
CityPoint = 1
Protodale = 3
Plaza = 2
Whitehall Office block = 1
Gt George St apartments = 1

Total, 23

With the new crane at Roberts Mill apts the crane count is now 24 (not counting Horsforth if there is still one there)

With the new crane at Roberts Mill apts the crane count is now 24 (not counting Horsforth if there is still one there)

The Horsforth crane has gone.

Driving along the M62 yesterday I saw a very large crane about half a mile away. Could have been alongside the M62 further east from the M621 junction - possibly at the new business park where the De Vere hotel is planned.

Anyone know what this is for?

The office park at the M621/M62 junction is the Capitol Park (I think). Which park was that hotel planned for ?

There is a crane in Halton on the A63. its not a tower crane and only temporary though.

The office park at the M621/M62 junction is the Capitol Park (I think). Which park was that hotel planned for ?

It is planned for Capitol Park, guess the crane may be for that development, but from a distance it seemed huge (way taller than I'd have thought necessary for a hotel) ...I'll try and check it out this weekend.

Expect to see a crane or 2 behind Velocity soon, they've started ground works on the new Manor road site.

THE MANOR ROAD SITE? WATS GOIN UP THERE?

Have a look at the Holbeck Urban Village thread

There is a crane in Halton on the A63. its not a tower crane and only temporary though.

Probably nicked from one of the city centre building sites :runaway:

Out of interest what's the current crane count in Leeds?

Gone down a bit recently -

BWP = 3
Gateway = 2
St James = 4
New York Street apts = 2
Roberts Mill apts = 2
Grand Theatre = 2
Protodale = 3
Gt George St apartments = 1 (probably go soon)
Clarence House = 1
West Point = 1 (new small one has gone up to side/rear of building)

Total, 21

LaSalle should be on its way soon, but the base isn't in place yet (as of last weekend)

Gone down a bit recently -

BWP = 3
Gateway = 2
St James = 4
New York Street apts = 2
Roberts Mill apts = 2
Grand Theatre = 2
Protodale = 3
Gt George St apartments = 1 (probably go soon)
Clarence House = 1
West Point = 1 (new small one has gone up to side/rear of building)

Total, 21

LaSalle should be on its way soon, but the base isn't in place yet (as of last weekend)

One of those at the Grand Theatre has gone but there's also the crane at City Point on East Parade, so the total is still 21.

One of those at the Grand Theatre has gone but there's also the crane at City Point on East Parade, so the total is still 21.

nice one, on par with Sheffield then.

Noticed the crane for the stepped up apartments on New York Street,opposite the Markets was being dismantled, however with a second crane going upfor Clarence House,no change on numbers.

I recken there should be some new ones reaching for the skies pretty soon,with the second phase of City Island coming on.

Gone down a bit recently -

BWP = 3
Gateway = 2
St James = 4
New York Street apts = 1
Roberts Mill apts = 2
Grand Theatre = 1
City Point = 1
Protodale = 3
Gt George St apartments = 1 (probably go soon)
Clarence House = 2
West Point = 1 (new small one has gone up to side/rear of building)

Total, 21

Just out of interest, went through Bradford today and there are three tower cranes up (not sure if that's a record or not).

There's one at a Thornton Road mill conversion/part new build, one at the Gatehaus site, and one nearby at another residential conversion/part new build site. There is also one in Shipley at the Victoria Mills conversion/part new build.

Just out of interest, went through Bradford today and there are three tower cranes up (not sure if that's a record or not).

There's one at a Thornton Road mill conversion/part new build, one at the Gatehaus site, and one nearby at another residential conversion/part new build site. There is also one in Shipley at the Victoria Mills conversion/part new build.

The city seems to be moving in the right direction, with apartment conversions increasingly prevalent.

Wakefield and Huddersfield are following suit too, should see cranes up in those places from time to time.

Another one up at Clarence Dock (I know somebody mentioned this on the Cla. Dock thread), I think there is going to be bit of a 'crane fest' there later this year with three up and I'm guessing another three to go up.

I'd expect another to appear on Burley Road soon. That rancid wee tiled block between the Triangle and Protodale sites was a surprising pile of rubble last night, so whatever's happening here can only be good.

2 going up at City Island phase 2- that should make 24

Update -

BWP = 3
Gateway = 2
St James = 4
New York Street apts = 1
Roberts Mill apts = 1
Grand Theatre = 1
City Point = 1
Protodale = 3
Clarence Dock = 5 (+1 base)
City Island phase II = 2
West Point = 1 (new small one has gone up to side/rear of building)

Total 24 (+base) 25 within a week or two.

St James's is probably getting another 3 once the carpark starts. Drilling rigs were seen there last week, they have since gone.

Bradford's Crane Count half way to double fiqures.

Gatehaus, Little Germany 1
Eastbrook Hall, Little Germany 2
Empress, Sunbridge Road 1
Student Acc, University 1

Bradford's Crane Count half way to double fiqures.

Gatehaus, Little Germany 1
Eastbrook Hall, Little Germany 2
Empress, Sunbridge Road 1
Student Acc, University 1

Add Victoria Mills, Shipley, 1

There's now 6 cranes on the Clarence Dock site now making 25 in all, but by the sound of not for much longer. I don't think it will be long before we see the 30 barrier broken!!

Gosh we are keen this year. If any of you are rich and happen to own just a bit of space in the city centre, rent a crane for the next few weeks just to boost it a bit :)

Just been down to Brighton yesterday & today (where there's a measely 2 cranes working on the slowly crumbling tatty old resort), and driving back into Leeds (j3 of M621) with the sun blazing and the air shimmering, the forest of cranes that you meet coming in is little short of breathtaking, 13 visible in one apparant cluster alone (C.Dock, Gateway, St James etc) and others scattered all around looked fantastic, our other shiney new clad towers all looked great too. A real sight for sore eyes.

I'd like some of these southern 'northaphobics' to get out of their boring overpriced 'home counties' and come and have a look at the great northern cities we're building now.

Oh, I went past Clarence Dock yesterday and saw someone (smartly dressed) taking photos of the cranes and skyline, it wasn't one of you lot was it ?

I'd like some of these southern 'northaphobics' to get out of their boring overpriced 'home counties' and come and have a look at the great northern cities we're building now.

Would that be a subtle dig at a certain BrightonBoy? :lol:

I nearly caused a ruckus last week when I told a tableful of Londoners that Leeds was a brilliant city, in a strident Yorkshire voice.

This sums it up nicely: http://www.greenbankleeds.com/index.php?section=location

This sums it up nicely: http://www.greenbankleeds.com/index.php?section=location

Must correct a couple of points from that link.

How do you define the best University?

For quality, it's got to be Oxford or Cambridge.

For popularity it's University of Manchester (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4948604.stm)

Latest data Britain's Best City for Business (http://www.omis.co.uk/Downloads/BBC06.pdf)

Must correct a couple of points from that link.

How do you define the best University?

For quality, it's got to be Oxford or Cambridge.

For popularity it's University of Manchester (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4948604.stm)

Latest data Britain's Best City for Business (http://www.omis.co.uk/Downloads/BBC06.pdf)


I'd take marketing like that on the Greenbank website with a pinch of salt.

Must correct a couple of points from that link.

How do you define the best University?

For quality, it's got to be Oxford or Cambridge.

For popularity it's University of Manchester (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4948604.stm)

Latest data Britain's Best City for Business (http://www.omis.co.uk/Downloads/BBC06.pdf)

Yes, Manchester is the most popular university in the country after merging two of its prestige Universities (Manchester University & UMIST). The intention of the merger being to make it the most popular in Britain, one of the biggest in Europe, etc, and that's what's happened. A clever move on the part of those involved.

On a separate point, the 'best' university is, of course, highly subjective. But the way newspapers conduct these surveys is to take into account various considerations such as quality of teaching, accomodation, city life, etc (which is rather subjective in itself). I'm not sure whether you can call any university 'the best' (and these surveys would probably be scorned by most people who attend the universities themselves) , however, Leeds does offer a good spread of positive reasons to study there, even if most Leeds students seem to take their BA in 'Whingeing about Leeds'.

Yes, Manchester is the most popular university in the country after merging two of its prestige Universities (Manchester University & UMIST). The intention of the merger being to make it the most popular in Britain, one of the biggest in Europe, etc, and that's what's happened. A clever move on the part of those involved.

That's true.

On a separate point, the 'best' university is, of course, highly subjective. But the way newspapers conduct these surveys is to take into account various considerations such as quality of teaching, accomodation, city life, etc (which is rather subjective in itself). I'm not sure whether you can call any university 'the best' (and these surveys would probably be scorned by most people who attend the universities themselves) , however, Leeds does offer a good spread of positive reasons to study there, even if most Leeds students seem to take their BA in 'Whingeing about Leeds'.

I agree.

Manchester and Leeds are very popular university destinations though.

They are using old data. For years the most popular university, according to UCAS applications, was always either Leeds or Nottingham. Things must have changed.

They are using old data. For years the most popular university, according to UCAS applications, was always either Leeds or Nottingham. Things must have changed.

As di Livio pointed out.

The University of Manchester merged with UMIST (University of Manchester Institute of Science and Technology) to create the UK's largest University.

MMU (Manchester Metropolitan University) is the 4th most popular in the UK.

Leeds has a HE student population of 91,732

Please keep this thread for cane counts. Thankyou

whats the crane count at now guys?

Correct me if I'm wrong, three have come down at Opal Court along with one or two others, but more one has gone up at Clarence Dock and more to follow soon.

BWP = 2
Gateway = 1
St James = 4
New York Street apts = 1
Roberts Mill apts = 1
Clarence Dock = 7
City Island phase II = 2
West Point = 1 (small one to side/rear of building)

Total 19

Correct me if I'm wrong, three have come down at Opal Court along with one or two others, but more one has gone up at Clarence Dock and more to follow soon.

BWP = 2
Gateway = 1
St James = 4
New York Street apts = 1
Roberts Mill apts = 1
Clarence Dock = 7
City Island phase II = 2
West Point = 1 (small one to side/rear of building)

Total 19

Thats not looking as healthy as it did last year.

But consider the amount of projects on the verge of commencement, and that many of these projects have been going for a while and are looking to be finished soon revealing an update to the city with Clarence Dock, BWP, Gateway, Jimmys, West Point all finished or near completion next year with a whole new host of developments to refresh the crane count.

2 bases at st james's

7 at CDock is phenomenal! Imagine how many there would be there if they had tried building it all at once!! This truly is a development of massive proportions.

This might seem like a daft question but I'll ask it all the same. Would I be right to assume that part of the planning process involves getting the agreement of the city council about when a project will actually start on site?

The reason I ask is that I was walking along East Street the other day from the South Accommodation Road towards the city centre. Within a short stretch you have the huge Barratt's development on the right hand side. Following shortly after, on the opposite side of the road, is the Robert's Wharf development, with the East Street Mill complex almost opposite. Finally of course, you've got the Gateway development. There were road restrictions in two places and it made me think that there could be gridlock along East Street if all the other proposed developments (Lowfields, Flax Place, etc) were actually under way at the same time.

So, I've always assumed that the city planners had a schedule of works, underway and proposed, and some kind of ready reckoner to help them assess whether a development's start date was going to overload the city's normal running (traffic movement, pedestrian access and the like) given the building activity already on the go.

It's not a burning issue but it would be nice to know if I'm barking up a gum tree.

But consider the amount of projects on the verge of commencement, and that many of these projects have been going for a while and are looking to be finished soon revealing an update to the city with Clarence Dock, BWP, Gateway, Jimmys, West Point all finished or near completion next year with a whole new host of developments to refresh the crane count.

I think it's a blip of a lot of projects finishing major construction at once, which was expected. There probably won't be many for a while (with the exception of St James, and Clarence Dock) but I think there should be a fair few going up later into the year and early next year; (Granary Wharf, hopefully Mayfair, Brewery Wharf last phase, Mayfair tower, Leeds Uni Rose Bowl, possibly Blenheim Court all spring to mind).

I think it's a blip of a lot of projects finishing major construction at once, which was expected. There probably won't be many for a while (with the exception of St James, and Clarence Dock) but I think there should be a fair few going up later into the year and early next year; (Granary Wharf, hopefully Mayfair, Brewery Wharf last phase, Mayfair tower, Leeds Uni Rose Bowl, possibly Blenheim Court all spring to mind).

At to that the Plaza tower which is expected to start in August, and certainly one or two at the Manor Mills scheme in HUV which has already broken ground.

I predict that there will more cranes in Leeds than ever before by the end of this year. Just look at the projects which are beginning.

How about 30 as a guesstimate

There appears to be another site on the way that will almost certainly have at least one crane. I didn't notice work starting before, but there are now two large pile drilling rigs at the site on Burley Road right next door to Opal Court, they are a fair size so it should be a biggish development.

The only planning application I remember for the area was for a ten storey student apartment block, so I assume this must be it.

I see that another crane has gone up in Horsforth near the Shell petrol station. This is the second crane for Horsforth within 12 month!

There appears to be another site on the way that will almost certainly have at least one crane. I didn't notice work starting before, but there are now two large pile drilling rigs at the site on Burley Road right next door to Opal Court, they are a fair size so it should be a biggish development.

The only planning application I remember for the area was for a ten storey student apartment block, so I assume this must be it.


When did the name change to Opal Court take place ? I thought it was called Portodale.

I see that another crane has gone up in Horsforth near the Shell petrol station. This is the second crane for Horsforth within 12 month!

That's not a proper toewr crane, it's one of those semi mobile unmanned cranes.

However, there is another full size one going up at St James.

BWP = 2
Gateway = 1
St James = 5
New York Street apts = 1
Roberts Mill apts = 1
Clarence Dock = 7
City Island phase II = 2
West Point = 1 (small one to side/rear of building)

Total 20

A new crane went up today next to Opal One. I think it is for phase 2 of Opal which is being advertised now.

There is another development almost directly across Burley Road near Triangle, which has been under construction for some time and piling has been done, so I expect a crane up there too some time soon.

BWP = 2
St James = 6
The Iceworks = 1
Clarence Dock = 7
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 1

total down to 19.

1 down and 1 up this weekend.

The one down was the second crane at the Iceworks.

I only saw it briefly, but I think the new one is the York Place development, it was in the right area and I have read about works starting there soon.

http://www.brewsterbye.co.uk/images/york.jpg

Image courtesy of the architect Brewster Bye

Another change as BWP crane 2 came down but Opal 1 phase 2 gained a second crane, so the total remains unchanged.

BWP = 1
St James = 6
Clarence Dock = 7
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1

total 19.

next year should be a good year for tower cranes in Leeds with the new builds planed esspecialy La Lumiere with 4 really high tower cranes

Hasn't the tower crane at York place come down

Hasn't the tower crane at York place come down

Let's hope not - it only went up a couple of weeks ago :)

i must of being thinking of a differant build the one near the bus station for sum reason i thought it was called York Place

i must of being thinking of a differant build the one near the bus station for sum reason i thought it was called York Place

not a prob - close but no cigar. the site near Kirkgate and the bus station comprises the two affordable apartment blocks known as Iceworks and ....... yikes, can't remember. Anyway, that'll be New York Street....

New York Street (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&GridE=-1.53773&GridN=53.79639&lon=-1.53773&lat=53.79639&place=New%20York%20Street%2C%20LEEDS%2C%20LS2&db=GB&scale=5000&search_result=New%20York%20Street%2C%20LEEDS%2C%20LS2&lang=&keepicon=true)

....more in reference to our historic town than the American metropolis I'd wager

Anyway, that'll be New York Street....

....more in reference to our historic town than the American metropolis I'd wager


Definitely, and not to be confused with New York Road (built 1910) - now part of the (north eastern) Loop.

thanks Jimbo it was New York Street that i was thinking of as i remember whatching it being taken down while whating for the coach to Manchester

I yesterday noticed a base for a new crane o n a site being prepared (for more student accommodation?) on Burley Road.

whats the crane count at the moment

There are 2 cranes over the road from Opal Court 1. One of them has been there for a while the other has been erected in the past 2 weeks. Im not sure whether or not this is counted in the Leeds crane count as i dont no leeds aswell as others as ive only lived here for 5 weeks

i'm going into town tomorrow so i will check them out

Yes, there's now 4 up on Burley Road. Two for Opal phase II, and 2 for the development on that hilly triangular site directly across the road from Opal.

There are two large cranes near the Evening Post building. Does anyone know what they are building there as I can see it from my flat. It's been slowly growing and the crane is pretty tall so it must be over 10 or 15 floors? If anyone knows what the building is called it would be much appreciated as I would like to know whether or not it will make the view out of my lounge more interesting. Thanks

There are two large cranes near the Evening Post building. Does anyone know what they are building there as I can see it from my flat. It's been slowly growing and the crane is pretty tall so it must be over 10 or 15 floors? If anyone knows what the building is called it would be much appreciated as I would like to know whether or not it will make the view out of my lounge more interesting. Thanks



Go to the City Island phase 2 thread and you shall see all

Time for an update, -

BWP = 1
St James = 2 (4 blue ones seem to have gone now)
Clarence Dock = 7
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block = 2
Manor Mills = 1

Base in place; Brewery Wharf 1 = 1

total 19.

...with more to follow

http://static.flickr.com/78/175330392_f4b9e685b4.jpg

..

http://static.flickr.com/78/175330392_f4b9e685b4.jpg

..

fantastic picture, i love the way all the cranes are pointing in more or less the same direction

I love cranes I don't know if it was a windy day on the pic but crane jibs spin freely & the longest arm always gets blown around with the wind! They'd come crashing down if they were rigid!! :ohno:

theres now only 1 crane at St Jameses hospital. saw it being taken down

Crane going up next to Trinty One...I think the development is called Quay One??

Time for an update, thinning out a bit for the time being -

BWP = 1
St James = 1
Clarence Dock = 4
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1

Base in place;
Brewery Wharf One = 1
Opal tower = 1

total 18.

http://static.flickr.com/78/175330392_f4b9e685b4.jpg

..

Wow what a great picture, does anyone know where it was taken from?

Wow what a great picture, does anyone know where it was taken from?

I didn't take it, but that looks like BWP to the far left, and the yellow blocks in the centre of the frame look like the student accomodation at Clarence Dock.

Not me - but rather a posh lamp post for such a derelict street?!

it's the junction of south accomodation rd & east street. the unused road will be used once the east street buildings such as echo come online.

it's the junction of south accomodation rd & east street. the unused road will be used once the east street buildings such as echo come online.

Thanks ahmedd

I didn't take it, but that looks like BWP to the far left, and the yellow blocks in the centre of the frame look like the student accomodation at Clarence Dock.

I know you didn't take the photo, but you certainly do have a talent at finding all these great pics. Keeo uo the good work

New crane newly erected in the Leeds suburb of Yeadon next to Morrisons. I believe its a new health centre that's under construction.

Do any of the cranes have Christmas lights this year..?

..just wondering. :cheers2:

Do any of the cranes have Christmas lights this year..?

..just wondering. :cheers2:

Sadly not, I think there were one or two last Christmas.

anyway, updating the list -no more BWP crane :( although it looks a proper grown up young building now it's fully independant.

St James = 1
Clarence Dock = 4
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block (Concept House?) = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1

Base in place;
Brewery Wharf One = 1
Opal tower = 1

Total 17

p.s. haven't counted the Yeadon, don't think Fred would approve as he didn't even count the Horsforth one ;)

So are we counting suburban ones or not :S We have St. James- I wouldnt say that was central :S

So are we counting suburban ones or not :S We have St. James- I wouldnt say that was central :S

Doesn't matter either way. The last St James' crane came down earlier this week.

Oh ok. Bit of a decline in cranes at the moment, but Im sure 2007 will bring a number of new ones. Goodness; the tallest crane for Lumiere is gonna be huge!

if things haven't changed things they are still having 4 tower cranes, 2 for the smaller tower which will be taller than the Bridwater tower and 2 for the really tall tower, its going to look awesome.

Don't expect a 180m crane to suddenly appear, they'll start off short and grow with the tower.

New crane going up today at the last phase of Brewery Wharf. Think its for the 12 storey apartment block.

Anyone got the latest crane count????

As far as I know, from what I saw last weekend -

St James = 1
Clarence Dock = 4 (still 4, probably not for much longer)
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block (Concept House?) = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1
Brewery Wharf One = 1

Base in place;
Opal tower = 1

Total 17

If anyone knows different, please shout out.

Many thanks Rob..

After a walk around this sunny weekend -

Clarence Dock = 4 (still 4 yesterday)
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block (Concept House?) = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1
Brewery Wharf One = 1
Gateway = 2
Opal Tower = 1

Total 18

The number's going up again, with more to follow ...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid223/p2900e0e9c0a461982c7cf3db80934678/eac8fe20.jpg

The Opal Tower crane

A third crane is currently going up @ The Gateway.

I will post an image when I get chance.

A third crane is currently going up @ The Gateway.

I will post an image when I get chance.

Thanks Da Bomb, That's n..n..nineteen.

Clarence Dock = 4 (still 4 yesterday)
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block (Concept House) = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1
Brewery Wharf One = 1
Gateway = 3
Opal Tower = 1

Total 19


There's a big cluster of cranes ahead of you again when you come off Junction 3 of the M621, like there was around 6 months ago, they look good in the sunlight.

what and where are brewery wharf and the quay.
I thought brewery wharf finnished a while ago and i did not realise ocons concept house was approved yet but yet good news.
It would be interested to see how tall this new phase of The Gateway will be.

what and where are brewery wharf and the quay.
I thought brewery wharf finnished a while ago and i did not realise ocons concept house was approved yet but yet good news.
It would be interested to see how tall this new phase of The Gateway will be.

1 Brewery Wharf is the last remaining site in the whole Brewery Wharf development. It is situated between Waterloo Apartments and the Jury's Inn Hotel.

Sounds like a false alarm on the third Gateway crane, back down to 18.

Clarence Dock = 4 (still 4 yesterday)
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block (Concept House) = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1
Brewery Wharf One = 1
Gateway = 2
Opal Tower = 1

Total 18

Brewery Wharf 1 is the blue and yellow crane, very colourful, you can' miss it. Quay 1 is across the road from Trinity 1, filling in a small space (near Rose Wharf I believe.

Sounds like a false alarm on the third Gateway crane, back down to 18.


Here's the proof of the third crane boys & girls.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2052/18022007275xb1.jpg

Good, three back on for Gateway then ...

Clarence Dock = 4 (still 4 yesterday)
City Island phase II = 2
Opal phase II = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block (Concept House) = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1
Brewery Wharf One = 1
Gateway = 2 + 1 base
Opal Tower = 1

Total 19

I don't know if Bradford still has 4 cranes up (2 at The Gatehaus + 2 others), but Shipley is in the running now with 4 up.

Victoria Mills = 3
Baildon Road flats = 1

I don't know if Bradford still has 4 cranes up (2 at The Gatehaus + 2 others), but Shipley is in the running now with 4 up.

Victoria Mills = 3
Baildon Road flats = 1

Yes we're catching up with Leeds I guess.

There is a little white crane up in South East Leeds (South of Temple Newsam) im guessing for some kind of industrial construction, dunno if that counts?

There is a little white crane up in South East Leeds (South of Temple Newsam) im guessing for some kind of industrial construction, dunno if that counts?

There should be two there it's for the renewal works at the knostropp sewage works, I went to an Yorkshire Water exhibition a couple of weeks ago at the Round Foundry Media centre, they said there would be two cranes on site.

These works will reduce the size of the spralling complex, making available land next to the East Leeds Link Road.

Clarence Dock = 4 (still 4 today)
City Island phase II = 2
Opal 2 = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block (Concept House) = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1
Brewery Wharf One = 1
Gateway = 3
Opal Tower = 1
Broadway (ex Allders) = 1
Waterloo appartments = 1

Total 21

*** back over 20 again ***

Not quite our record peak of 24 early last year, but heading the right way again.

Not sure if this is a new crane or not, but spotted one near the large crane for the last phase of Brewery Wharf. Its near the Tetley site. Not massive, but probably good 6 floors +

Clarence Dock = 4 (still 4 today)
City Island phase II = 2
Opal 2 = 2
York Place = 1
Burley Road residential block (Concept House) = 2
Manor Mills = 2
Quay 1 = 1
Brewery Wharf One = 1
Gateway = 3
Opal Tower = 1
Broadway (ex Allders) = 1
Waterloo appartments = 1

Total 21

*** back over 20 again ***

Not quite our record peak of 24 early last year, but heading the right way again.


Rob - Any chance of the number of storeys next to each development ie. Opal Tower (25) - 1

Rob - Any chance of the number of storeys next to each development ie. Opal Tower (25) - 1

Go on then;

Clarence House (20) = 2
Le Salle (10) = 2
City Island phase II (20) = 2
Opal 2 (10) = 2
York Place (6) = 1
Concept House (12) = 2
Manor Mills (9) = 2
Quay 1 (8) = 1
One Brewery Wharf (13) = 1
Gateway (12) = 3
Opal Tower (26) = 1
Broadway (8) = 1
Waterloo appartments (5) = 1

Total 21

The one you saw Skychaser is the Waterloo apartments crane (small orange topless crane)

There are two large new cranes along the route of the new east Leeds road, some way from the city centre. They look like Laing O'Rourke's white Comodil cranes, not sure what they're for but they are quite tall.

Is concept house the unite student tower.

Yes.
I thought it was before, but went up Burley Road to check last week.

I was driving back into Leeds along the M1 yesterday afternoon (by the way,Bridgewater Place looked fantastic, glistening in the distance) and I spotted two cranes over to the right. They were white, flat-topped ones, and definitely not in the city centre. From that distance, it was difficult to guess a location but it was obviously east Leeds. I wondered if they were connected to the East Leeds link road but that's as far as my guesswork took me. Do any of you wise folks have more information?

How East is East? It could have been for the IRR7 or as you say, East Leeds Link Road. Can't think of that much development out of the central-area to the east. The area is generally undeveloped as there is no transport (hence East Leeds Link Road).

There was an 'additional' and quite massive crane at Clarence Dock overnight that seemed to spend the evening in an erect position - pic below shows it at 7am this morning - it's a temporary one that has been helping to dismantle the tower crane in front of Clarence House (hence the stub to the right). Thinking about it, these are not white though...

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/8818/clarhouse050407sf4.jpg

Whole of Clarence Dock is now down to two tower cranes as of end of today - one at Clarence House and one at La Salle.

I was driving back into Leeds along the M1 yesterday afternoon (by the way,Bridgewater Place looked fantastic, glistening in the distance) and I spotted two cranes over to the right. They were white, flat-topped ones, and definitely not in the city centre. From that distance, it was difficult to guess a location but it was obviously east Leeds. I wondered if they were connected to the East Leeds link road but that's as far as my guesswork took me. Do any of you wise folks have more information?

These are for the new sewage works! They are to move the big storage tankers into place, once works are complete don't think there will be much overground, so not new buildings I'm afraid. Interestingly the work will reduce the area used already used for the current sewage works and will release land for development in an area that is adjacent to the new link road.

Is this the sewage works they have promising that will get rid of the nasty odour that hangs around that area?

Yes we're catching up with Leeds I guess.

More crane activity in Shipley, one came down but another was taking it's place (in a different location) at Victoria Mills today. Looks like a bit of rivalry between Shipley and Bradford (City)?

Confirmed - a white tower crane is now emerging at the Echo site on East Street - currently just visible. Can't imagine it will be all that tall though.

It's about time this was updated:

City Island phase II (20) = 1
Opal 2 (10) = 2 --> (coming down soon)
York Place (6) = 1
Unite's Concept House (12) = 2
Manor Mills (9) = 2
Quay 1 (8) = 1
One Brewery Wharf (13) = 1
Gateway (12) = 2
Opal Tower (26) = 1
Broadway (8) = 1
Waterloo apartments (5) = 1
Echo (15) = 1
One St Peters Square (16) = 1

Total 17

Coming soon ... Granary Wharf hotel, Monkbridge Office, The Plaza!

And hopefully Lumiere within the next few months.

Subliving.

And hopefully Lumiere within the next few months.

Subliving.

there's nothing quite like a huge erection, hey subliving :banana:

there's nothing quite like a huge erection, hey subliving :banana:

Oh you have no idea.

Subliving.

I don't know if Bradford still has 4 cranes up (2 at The Gatehaus + 2 others), but Shipley is in the running now with 4 up.

Victoria Mills = 3
Baildon Road flats = 1


Bradford has I think, 1 or 2 at the Gatehaus (though as the main glass tower has now topped out, I imagine it or they will be taken down soon), 1 or 2 at Eastbrook Hall and occasionally one seems to pop up at Lister's Mill. There was one at the Empress Apartments site but that's been taken down a while ago as the project is pretty much complete.

Hopefully we'll get more up in the air if and when Citygate, The Channel Development (now approved), The Beehive Development and... eugh can I even mention the name, The Broadway Shopping Centre ever get going.

Victoria Mills looks like a pretty spot on development, should really post some pictures up in the Bradford section.

We went through central Bradford on Saturday, the GateHaus seems to have suddenly shot up to full height, and I have to say looks brilliant. it really suits the area it's in, it kind of looms out at you as you come past the solid stone buildings but with a light and transparent look. When you look right there's the leasure exchange and traditional new offices, and left is that modern looking glass office, that whole area is starting to look quite good (perhaps for the first time in a century).

And hopefully Lumiere within the next few months.

Subliving.

Probably not for quite a few months yet. A lot to do first.

Confirmed - a white tower crane is now emerging at the Echo site on East Street - currently just visible. Can't imagine it will be all that tall though.

Given how tall this one ended up, I think I'll refrain from attempting to predict crane heights in future... :doh:

:lol: it is massive for a poxy little 15 floor block. Seems to be the tallest crane in Leeds.

Maybe something taller than we expected is coming! Or maybe the floors will be ratherwide- ie high ceilings. Or maybe its just a tall crane =/

It's becuse it's a luffing jib type, so the tower part has to be higher than the building, but then the jib goes up from there to make a really tall crane.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p4c855321e84281168e132c5ebc644bfc/e99e2e74.jpg