check this shit out http://www.manutd.com/newquadrant/home.sps?itype=9189&icustompageid=1257&quadssplash

there is too much to post of here but there are loads of videos, pictures and artices on the new stands. I'll just post some of the interesting facts.

Prices(these are shocking).
Sports Bar - £1,600
Lounge Bar - £1,850
Executive Lounge - £2,820
Evolution Suites - £6,500
Fine Dining - £7,500
Super Suites - £264,375(mad or what)

New Seats Set For Current Season Debut

Fans who attended the 4-2 win against Fulham will have seen it for themselves: the expansion of England's biggest club stadium is continuing apace.

Construction work on Old Trafford's new North-East and North-West quadrants is going so well that club officials and building contractors Laing O'Rourke are confident fans will use parts of the new stands before the end of this season.

United's project manager Gary Hebblewhite says the club is delighted with the progress, especially as building work has had to be stopped - and a clean-up job done - before each and every home match during 2005/06.

"With a development like this spectator and visitor safety is paramount," says Gary.

"But with our experience of expanding other areas of the stadium over the past decade we believe that there has been very little disruption on match days.

"There've been times when we've had a lot of home games in a short space of time but we've got a procedure in place that we feel has been a real success and we've managed to maintain the capacity."

Gary says fans will begin to notice changes inside OT during the next stage of the project, the internal fit-out.

"You can see the impact of the development externally but the real impact will come when we remove the gables between the North and East, and the North and West stands," he says.

"This will create a bowl effect, which is when fans will see the sheer scale of the development. I anticipate that being by the end of February."
As with previous developments at the stadium, supporters could be allowed into sections of the new stands earlier than the official opening. Birmingham in March has been mooted by the press but Gary insists it’s far too early to suggest a date.

"With any major development you've got to make sure that all the life-safety systems are working as they should do," he says.

"That means emergency lighting systems, fire alarm systems, exit gates, turnstiles and so on require testing.

"At this stage we allow stewards and other members of our matchday safety team to review the new areas. Only when these exercises have been done will we consider opening the new areas for spectator use.

"We've done this on all our major developments and we will be looking for opportunities to use these areas prior to next season."

It's not just the construction work that's making excellent progress. Sales of 2006/07 hospitality packages have gone so well that only a few packages now remain in the five new areas.

Join One United - And Sit In The New Quadrant Seats

Manchester United is delighted to announce that a number of seats for Old Trafford's new Quadrants will be available before the end of the current season, increasing the interim* capacity to over 70,000.

An allocation of tickets for the brand new seats will be made available to New One United Members. To become a Member, please call 0870 442 1994 or visit manutd.com/oneunited.

To be entered into the ballot for new Quadrant seats, New Members will have to apply for tickets to one of the following three matches:

# Birmingham - 26 March (apply from Friday 10 February)
# Sunderland - 15 April (apply from Friday 3 March)
# Middlesbro' - 22 April (apply from Friday 10 March)

New Members who apply for two or three of the above fixtures will be guaranteed a ticket to at least one of the matches. Please note, this promotion does not include the Arsenal or Charlton games. You can apply for one ticket per Member.

To apply for tickets, please call 0870 442 1999 or visit manutd.com/tickets.

There are, of course, many other benefits to joining One United including £5 off the full match ticket price, discounts for the Museum, Megastore and Red Cafe, and a special commemorative George Best poster in your membership pack.

One United Members will also be invited to register their interest in purchasing a new season ticket for 2006/07. (Click here for more information).

*The capacity of Old Trafford will be over 76,000 when the new Quadrants are completed for the start of 2006/07.

Two renders.
http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_12871.jpg&obj=iip,1.0&wid=806&hei=600&rgn=0,0,0,0&cvt=jpeg
http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_12870.jpg&obj=iip,1.0&wid=1024&hei=762&rgn=0,0,0,0&cvt=jpeg

check this shit out http://www.manutd.com/newquadrant/home.sps?itype=9189&icustompageid=1257&quadssplash

there is too much to post of here but there are loads of videos, pictures and artices on the new stands. I'll just post some of the interesting facts.

Prices(these are shocking).
Sports Bar - £1,600
Lounge Bar - £1,850
Executive Lounge - £2,820
Evolution Suites - £6,500
Fine Dining - £7,500
Super Suites - £264,375(mad or what)

New Seats Set For Current Season Debut

Fans who attended the 4-2 win against Fulham will have seen it for themselves: the expansion of England's biggest club stadium is continuing apace.

Construction work on Old Trafford's new North-East and North-West quadrants is going so well that club officials and building contractors Laing O'Rourke are confident fans will use parts of the new stands before the end of this season.

United's project manager Gary Hebblewhite says the club is delighted with the progress, especially as building work has had to be stopped - and a clean-up job done - before each and every home match during 2005/06.

"With a development like this spectator and visitor safety is paramount," says Gary.

"But with our experience of expanding other areas of the stadium over the past decade we believe that there has been very little disruption on match days.

"There've been times when we've had a lot of home games in a short space of time but we've got a procedure in place that we feel has been a real success and we've managed to maintain the capacity."

Gary says fans will begin to notice changes inside OT during the next stage of the project, the internal fit-out.

"You can see the impact of the development externally but the real impact will come when we remove the gables between the North and East, and the North and West stands," he says.

"This will create a bowl effect, which is when fans will see the sheer scale of the development. I anticipate that being by the end of February."
As with previous developments at the stadium, supporters could be allowed into sections of the new stands earlier than the official opening. Birmingham in March has been mooted by the press but Gary insists it’s far too early to suggest a date.

"With any major development you've got to make sure that all the life-safety systems are working as they should do," he says.

"That means emergency lighting systems, fire alarm systems, exit gates, turnstiles and so on require testing.

"At this stage we allow stewards and other members of our matchday safety team to review the new areas. Only when these exercises have been done will we consider opening the new areas for spectator use.

"We've done this on all our major developments and we will be looking for opportunities to use these areas prior to next season."

It's not just the construction work that's making excellent progress. Sales of 2006/07 hospitality packages have gone so well that only a few packages now remain in the five new areas.

Join One United - And Sit In The New Quadrant Seats

Manchester United is delighted to announce that a number of seats for Old Trafford's new Quadrants will be available before the end of the current season, increasing the interim* capacity to over 70,000.

An allocation of tickets for the brand new seats will be made available to New One United Members. To become a Member, please call 0870 442 1994 or visit manutd.com/oneunited.

To be entered into the ballot for new Quadrant seats, New Members will have to apply for tickets to one of the following three matches:

# Birmingham - 26 March (apply from Friday 10 February)
# Sunderland - 15 April (apply from Friday 3 March)
# Middlesbro' - 22 April (apply from Friday 10 March)

New Members who apply for two or three of the above fixtures will be guaranteed a ticket to at least one of the matches. Please note, this promotion does not include the Arsenal or Charlton games. You can apply for one ticket per Member.

To apply for tickets, please call 0870 442 1999 or visit manutd.com/tickets.

There are, of course, many other benefits to joining One United including £5 off the full match ticket price, discounts for the Museum, Megastore and Red Cafe, and a special commemorative George Best poster in your membership pack.

One United Members will also be invited to register their interest in purchasing a new season ticket for 2006/07. (Click here for more information).

*The capacity of Old Trafford will be over 76,000 when the new Quadrants are completed for the start of 2006/07.

Two renders.
http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_12871.jpg&obj=iip,1.0&wid=806&hei=600&rgn=0,0,0,0&cvt=jpeg
http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_12870.jpg&obj=iip,1.0&wid=1024&hei=762&rgn=0,0,0,0&cvt=jpeg

Andy, is that the same render twice? Any chance you can post more renders / photos esp. from inside??

Andy, is that the same render twice? Any chance you can post more renders / photos esp. from inside??
Yep there were two sizes. I thought people have different screen sizes may as well post them both. I couldnt many pics but on that link they are about 10 videos.

Got a screengrab of the interior. Quality's quite pap, so apologies.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88/faggotbrain/OTinterior.jpg

Stretford.

Probably been seen before?

http://www.millerpartnership.com/manchester.htm

Looking at that image I posted, what does eveyrbody think about joining the stands up? I was thinking the third tier of the North would be freestanding leaving some blocked views right up in the corners. But I don't know, it looks like the quadrants may have an elevated top tier, so the third tier of the North actually links properly to serve as a "third tier" for the corners. If you see what I mean. Look at this pic of The Valley.

http://www.pictureblinds.co.uk/footballgrounds/images/Charltonfg.JPG

Now the new corners are at a steeper angle than the bottom tier of the main stand. I know this doesn't happen but it looks like it in the pic - the corner with it's steep angle appears to link directly onto the second tier of the main stand up by the top. This is what I'm imagining the top and 2nd tier of OT to look like by the corners. But sintead of being another tier, it'll be one like OT had pre-North stand (by which I mean OT always appeared 2 tiered but it wasn't, it just had a kind of concrete step up from the lower part of the stand to the higher).

I don't know, I'm talking gash. It takes a special (read - Joey Deacon) type of mind to understand my head.

So that white line coming from the corner of the North's 3rd tier may actually be a concrete wall, like you see either side of the new stand at Stamford Bridge.

I think they had some clearer pics that showed it was very Charltonesque. It was in the uk sports and cultural forum I think.

http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_13186.jpg&obj=iip,1.0&wid=800&hei=595&rgn=0,0,0,0&cvt=jpeg

updates posted in the world forums' stadiums and sports arenas section (w/ thanks to those who posted them):

Here's a picture taken in the last few days of Old Trafford with the new area visible. No seats in yet, but it looks good!

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7269/dfg5pb.jpg


:cool:

...

Here's a couple more.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/corner1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/WeasteDevil/corner2.jpg

new seating in the north-west quadrant (from manutd.com):

http://picsrv.manutd.com/?fif=/manu/img_10_13169.jpg&obj=iip,1.0&wid=230&hei=159&rgn=0,0,0,0&cvt=jpeg

...

More:

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/563/cimg0201small3ps.jpg

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/435/cimg0188small8pv.jpg

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/3792/cimg0192small5un.jpg

Seems all the theories were cack, the corner wall seems to exist where they meet the ends and the North stand.

According to David Gill (wanker) from the Brum match onwards United will be making £3m per game more than previous to the ground expansion - just goes to show how you can rip those execs off doesn't it?

Surely thats £3M per game in total

£3M / 70,000 fans = £42.85 each on average

I'll try and get some pics from Stretford T2 on Sunday

I'll try and get some pics from Stretford T2 on Sunday

nice one. :okay:

Watpol - you are correct - I miss read a report on an interview.

Plus, it is 76,400 capacity, which works out at about £39 per person - given I pay £24, there must be loads of people paying very high prices.

Probably going to end up with say, 65,000 fans paying average of £30 each (for now), makes £2M (top members price is 36 quid)

10,000 execs paying average of £100 a match gives another £1M



Now which group of fans will uncle Malcolm be most interested in?...

Does OT have anything close to 10,000 exec seats? I'd guess that if uncle Malcom redevolps the south stand it will have a bucketload of exec seating and boxes.

Does OT have anything close to 10,000 exec seats? I'd guess that if uncle Malcom redevolps the south stand it will have a bucketload of exec seating and boxes.

They could redevelop the South Stand like this.
http://65.17.213.56/fotos_galerias/fotos/oct272004/6.jpg

Pictures taken from Stretford End Tier 2, United v Newcastle 12th March 2006
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/pa296/DSC00094.jpg
The open wall to the stand and open back of the quadrant made it a freezing day in T2
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/pa296/DSC00096.jpg
Although the wall has gone, the 'frame' is still being demolished, giving an idea of how the view between North and Stretford End (West) stands will change
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/pa296/DSC00099.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/pa296/DSC00095.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/pa296/DSC00097.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/pa296/DSC00098.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/pa296/DSC00100.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e229/pa296/DSC00095.jpg

Cool pics, The stadium looks huge now.

For a short time before the completion of the new Wembley, Old Trafford will be the biggest stadium in Britain, with a capacity of 76,400 (overtaking the Millenium Stadium).

They could redevelop the South Stand like this.
http://65.17.213.56/fotos_galerias/fotos/oct272004/6.jpg

That would be one way to avoid building over the rail lines but I doubt it would happen as not only would it cause bad PR but I doubt theres enough demand for that many directors boxs outside Columbia ;).

The latest fasion seems to be luxury seating rather than masses of directors boxes aswell. I expect a Glazier built south stand would have 1 extra tier like the ends so it can wrap alot easily then have some luxury seating at the front and maybe another row of directors boxs right ontop of the current set.

For a short time before the completion of the new Wembley, Old Trafford will be the biggest stadium in Britain, with a capacity of 76,400 (overtaking the Millenium Stadium).

One of the main reasons why i don't mind the pre world cup friendlies being played at OT as it would hold that many and would look like a new stadium anyways(well nearly)

For a short time before the completion of the new Wembley, Old Trafford will be the biggest stadium in Britain, with a capacity of 76,400 (overtaking the Millenium Stadium).

At the rate Wembley's going, Twickenham will take the title back from Old Trafford first! :D

^^ Great news for english sport

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xc/57078893.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A80984388E75E9E7CF09964C4E1A915646

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xc/57078887.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A80984388E75E9E7CFBDCB56BB3E92595D

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xc/57078848.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A80984388E75E9E7CF879D000F7E7BD7FE

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xc/57078846.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A80984388E75E9E7CFFC8261F5D8587EEF

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xc/57078720.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A8D6D8FD301946FD079055630963112FAC

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xc/57078956.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A82A7712C6ED68F8BFC5F7BE74998492DA

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xc/57078706.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A8D6D8FD301946FD071D842B4D5671C9AA

MEN on ground work
Thursday, March 16, 2006

'UNITED'S stadium developments will provide the impetus for a new battle with Chelsea for Barclays Premiership supremacy, according to financial experts.

United’s 7,500 new seats in Old Trafford’s quadrants should provide the club with an extra £16million a year.

Meanwhile, rivals Arsenal’s annual income is expected to increase by up to 50% when they move to their new stadium next season.

But Dan Jones, a partner in Deloitte sports business, warned that Liverpool need to get back on the stadium bandwagon quickly or risk being left behind.

Jones said: “New and redeveloped stadia are the key reason why English clubs have generally pulled ahead of their European competitors.

“Stadium developments are absolutely fundamental to any club wanting to compete at the top and the extra income going to Arsenal and Manchester United should help them compete with Chelsea.”

Arsenal earned £115million in income last year but the move to the Emirates stadium has been predicted to lead to matchday takings leaping from £35million to £70million a year, with the Emirates sponsorship bringing in a further £10million annually.

That would see the Gunners earn around £160million, overhauling Chelsea and bringing them much closer to United, who earned £166million in revenue last year, as well as cementing a position in the top five of Europe.

United, like Arsenal, have also looked to harness the corporate market with the development of the quadrants. One-third of the extra capacity will be corporate seats linked to top-of-the-range dining facilities.

Chelsea have begun to contemplate moving grounds themselves now, while Liverpool’s efforts to do so have until now been thwarted, and that could prove hugely costly.

Jones added: “Liverpool’s turnover was £122million last year when they won the Champions League so they cannot really do much better than that.

“Whether they move to a new stadium or redevelop Anfield, it is essential they do something. Every season they are £35million behind Manchester United on matchday takings.

“One can see with Newcastle the benefits that can be gained by getting your stadium right.

“They have done very well and finished just outside the top 10 in Europe in terms of earnings despite not having a very good time on the pitch.”

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/tommyfg/Image009.jpg
tonights game against shitty birmingham.only half used tonight and the attendance was still 69,500.will look mint when fully seated.

Quadrants could've looked better. Looks very piecemeal.

Simply put, they couldn't have been built any other way due to the different angles of the North and goal end's second tiers. I believe the North stand's second tier has a slightly smaller gradient than the goal ends, hence the weird wavy tier in the corners, to attempt some form of cohesive join. It just wasn't possible to extend the tier perfectly round because of that. All in all, it may not be aestheticly beautiful, but it appears to be a great bit of engineering.

Great engineering, granted, but painfully short-sighted planning. Even if they weren't to do anything else for another 30 years or so, having a long term masterplan would've been an idea. They had one when the first tier bowl was completed didn'ty they? :?

The redevelopment looks fine, I know what you mean about piecemeal, but uniformity isn't really a problem with the corners, is still looks great, espeically since I presume the two quadrants are mirror images.

With the roof being so steep and low, the ground is very imposing and funnels the sound to the pitch, unlike a lot of modern stadia with flat or backwards sloping roofs (Newcastle springs to mind).

The only bug bear is the south-stand, which although bigger than most grounds main stands, is just a tiddler now... probably another 10 years before the clubs finances will permit looking at that....assuming the crowds still pour in!

Roll on the Arsenal match (76,000)!

They did indeed. Christ knows what they were thinking when they built the North Stand with that roof. It seems they were simply thinking of saving money instead of thinking what it'd mean longterm. They've been very short sighted, but you know what, I really don't mind it one bit. Instead of evolving into another faceless bowl, OT will one day have a pretty unique bowl structure which will only add more character to the place. And people complain about the South Stand, but I've always loved it. The wee old main stand, with it's lovely in-stand dugouts, directors and official seats, gets a spanking views of the football and 3 awesome stands. It may look daft from the air, but it must be a quality experience watching the games from halfway in the South Stand.

The stands funnel the sound down to the pitch do they? My god! The munching and slurping of 76,000 prawn sandwiches will drive fat Mr Rooney mad with hunger... ;)

I must visit again when Everton have a half decent team and see it for myself. :)

Actually, I'd also be able to see the new south stand and the massive glazed dome roof, with the starue of old man Wayne outside by the time that happens.....

Great engineering, granted, but painfully short-sighted planning. Even if they weren't to do anything else for another 30 years or so, having a long term masterplan would've been an idea. They had one when the first tier bowl was completed didn'ty they? :?


The north stand was built with the corners in mind, it was clearly stated, prior to construction that it was extendable.

The same was true of the East and West stand tier 2 expansion a few years ago.

There is no problem with the `fit' of these new segments. The view from the 3rd tier would be too far from behind the goals to see the other end of the pitch.

The ground will look great on three sides.

There was and always has been a masterplan with OT ever since 1965 (?) when the 1st United Road cantilever stand was built.

However, I am not aware of any plans now for the redevelopment of the south stand...which is a shame because that would give a capacity of 94,000 ish, the same as Barca are allowed with seating restrictions (not the old 100,000+ they could get). Just to give you the scale of the OT redevelopment.

stuff Chelsea for us as well Bunnyman.. that could make things interesting!

The 1965 Masterplan was to continue the cantilever stand all around the ground with the Stretford end basically mimicking the scoreboard. (I don't believe that all standing Stretford propaganda)

The Taylor report made that masterplan obsolete.

stuff Chelsea for us as well Bunnyman.. that could make things interesting!
That would make things very interesting. Also win aganist West ham would cut their lead down to 9 and it they bugger up at the weekend could be six(if we also win)but I cant see Birmingham doing anything.

Taking shape nicely!... (more at www.manutdpics.com - use 'quadrant' as the search word)

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=203494&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=203483&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=203493&mediatype=2

The 1965 Masterplan was to continue the cantilever stand all around the ground with the Stretford end basically mimicking the scoreboard. (I don't believe that all standing Stretford propaganda)

That's correct.

Mmm, I've got a picture in a book somewhere with everything done but the Stretford End which is still its good old propped-up-by-pillars-standing-shed self with "Wonderfuel Gas" stamped in Manchester City colours on the roof advertising hoarding.

It's quite amazing how far football advertising and merchandising have come. Others ads in the photo are such: Range Warehouses, Eccles Glass Company, Peter Hunt's Pies, Stamford Van & Car Hire, Ian Skelly Motors, Buxton Gill Ltd., ....

The only white seats are those saying "Manchester United".

Thats a bloody good find "raswok15". What it needs now is the North Stands struts painting white to match the ends.
I can name a couple of other things that could be done with Old Trafford and also around Old Trafford with out expanding the ground.

1.
They could re-fit Stretford End with offices or what ever they want and give it a glass finish like they have done with the East Stand. Looks abit silly with a massive hole in each side of the stands.
2.
Replace the bridge at the Stretford end with a new one, that bridge is a death trap waiting to happen.

Asthetically from the outside, Old Trafford is ugly.

Asthetically from the outside, Old Trafford is ugly.

It's not conventional no! I wouldn't say that it is beautiful, and I wouldn't say that it is ugly either. It's a unique stadium, nothing else in the world looks like it at all, and I like that.

Asthetically from the outside, Old Trafford is ugly.

Old Trafford is awesome looking, your kidding your self if you think it is ugly.

sup westiedevil, manu_lift_prem from the caff. do you think theres a chance of promotion. who sould i ask about it?

take it you all have heard SAF speaking about bringing OT up 92.000 seater with the development of the south stand. :eek2:

Wembley will have to bow down to Old Trafford if that happens. Then if the other two corners where done 100,000 easy.

That's correct.

Mmm, I've got a picture in a book somewhere with everything done but the Stretford End which is still its good old propped-up-by-pillars-standing-shed self with "Wonderfuel Gas" stamped in Manchester City colours on the roof advertising hoarding.

Archibald's original design, was actually the same height as the main stand all the way around, so, when United completed the stadium by rebuilding the old Stretford End, it almost mimicked the old plans. Although, I'm not sure if it was planned to be roofed all the way around. 100,000 capacity was the original design. Went down to 60,000 due to a rising costs.

As for Old Trafford, no, it's not pretty, but ironically, I think it was, prior to the huge extentions. However the great thing about the stadium, is that the views are very good from almost every seat. Plus the stands are very close to the pitch. The problem with new stadia, is that the stands are always a bit too far awat from the pitch. It's not beautiful, but it's a great footballing arena.

I have my doubts about a prem stadium that can seat 90-100,000 and consistantly fill it. I think OT will be at or almost at capacity with the 76,000, but it only takes a downward change in on-field performance, or even an economic recession and there may be problems.
At a time when the (arguably) biggest club in Italy (Juventus) are vacating the c80,000 Del Alpi to relocate in a more condusive new 35,000 seater it makes you wonder if the football 'bubble' has burst in Italy and could be working it's way westward to England.
I'm not sure the Glazers are aware of how fickle rank and file football supporters can be once they realize they're being ripped-off.
The working man can only afford so much.
I can see OT in the future having to rely on in-bound charter flights bringing in 'fans' from the far east and N. America...

Juve's always had shite support. They've always filled the San Siro whenever they've had to play a home fixture in Milan, though. It's where most Juve fans come from.

Nothing to do with the bubble, in their case.

That said, I do think it will burst. But we shouldn't forget that we pay a lot more than fans in other countries. Prices will top out and then come down, I feel. They have to.

Juventus were threatening to leave Turin about 10 years ago and relocate to Reggio (Emiglia as opposed to Calabria).

Most of their fans come from Southern Italy and they get huge crowds when they play at places like Lecce and Bari, a little like United away to Wimbledon.

do you think theres a chance of promotion. who sould i ask about it?

I've asked for you!

I dont understand why no one goes to watch Juventus its in a big city yet no one goes, funny city. Most people normally support there local team, yet Torino have seemed to outlaw the club.

The Glazers arnt running the club on their own, they may own it but I think they will take advice of the United Management team(as most of them are still at the club). I cant see prices rising next season because of the new season tickets and more member tickets. I would wait to see if you can fill the ground next season, if not the one thing you dont do is rise prices because you will lose the fans that you do have.

take it you all have heard SAF speaking about bringing OT up 92.000 seater with the development of the south stand. :eek2:

I heard that too at the end of the 'Nam' game.

With regard to someone saying it's ugly, I think it looks bloody marvelous. Would be interesting to see if da managment carry out a feasibility study on seeing if it's worth 'completing' the stadium!

I've asked for you!

thanks weastie, appreciate it.

OT is a unique stadium, not like others. the same playing surface Built in 1909, and has no plans to do what most other clubs decide to do, "re-locate and build a new stadium" coaf coaf arsenal. :sleepy:

Did anyone no why they have left the strettie end empty? its because in the long term that is where they are going to put the changing rooms and offices when they eventually demolish the south stand. That will only be on a tempory basis tho.

I have my doubts about a prem stadium that can seat 90-100,000 and consistantly fill it. I think OT will be at or almost at capacity with the 76,000, but it only takes a downward change in on-field performance, or even an economic recession and there may be problems.
At a time when the (arguably) biggest club in Italy (Juventus) are vacating the c80,000 Del Alpi to relocate in a more condusive new 35,000 seater it makes you wonder if the football 'bubble' has burst in Italy and could be working it's way westward to England.
I'm not sure the Glazers are aware of how fickle rank and file football supporters can be once they realize they're being ripped-off.
The working man can only afford so much.
I can see OT in the future having to rely on in-bound charter flights bringing in 'fans' from the far east and N. America...

I'd say that if the bubble did burst in the UK then having a large capacity could actually become even more important since your not going to be able charge as much per seat. I think people overestimate the effect lack of sucess has on the pitch aswell, Man Utd were afterall the best supported team in the country thoughout most of the 70's and 80's.

Personally I think that if/when the south stand is devolped they'll do the corners at the same time and make it a two tear structure to link directly with the ends with a few rows of luxury seats at the front of the new tier.

As far as I am aware Utd have been the best supported team every season since 1960ish...some stat bod must know....so that would be 47 years of glory hunting, cockney reds then....

Also, Utd biggest attendances were far bigger than even the new expansion will allow...for now!

Newcastle in the late 80's had a league crowd under 10,000 (i was there)..jonny come latelys...cup crowds, horrific turnouts!
Liverpool-shocking cup attendances and some league games not sold out

Utd...even during the fuel strike, at its worse had 63,000 for a euro match

erm....no one else even comes close!

ahhh, the arrogance....

I remember the opening home game against Tottenham in 1976, 2-0 at half time then lost 3-2 at full time. Couldn't see a thing only remember seeing the attendance on the electronic scoreboard, 60,723.

Taking shape nicely!... (more at www.manutdpics.com - use 'quadrant' as the search word)

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=203494&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=203483&mediatype=2

http://www.manutdpics.com/previewimage.php?mediaid=203493&mediatype=2


Good job, these were the pics I wanted to see.

As far as I am aware Utd have been the best supported team every season since 1960ish...some stat bod must know....so that would be 47 years of glory hunting, cockney reds then....

Also, Utd biggest attendances were far bigger than even the new expansion will allow...for now!

Wrong.

No you are aware.

He's not wrong.

In fact bar 8 seasons we've had the best attendances sinces the 50's.

He is.

Anyway, I'll be visiting myself in a few week, hopefully with both corners completed.

Just checked. Barring 10 seasons post 1955. Furthemore, we had the highest attendance in the country in 1974, whilst in the second division.

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

He's spot on, ok, not every season. But 40 out of the last 50 isn't bad, is it.

^^This all known facts why the hell is an arguement brewing

Wrong.

No you are aware.

Eh?

If I was aware I would not of put "as far as I am aware"

Since, you know I am wrong, which years/club(s) were they 2nd (or worse?) in the league attendance tables since 1960?

United had gates of 83,260 v Arsenal in 1948, 82,771 v Bradford Park Avenue and 81,771 v Yeovil Town in 1949, they were an main road due to OT being out of action due to war damage.

United had the highest UK average of the last century 57,552 (1968) and this century 67,748 in 2005 (which will of course be beaten this season).
If anybody is interested Arsenal last averaged over 40,000 in 1972 (up until 1989 the ground held 57,000), Spurs in 1968 (up until 1988 it held 48,000), Liverpool’s highest ever average was 48,127 in 1973.

Eh?

If I was aware I would not of put "as far as I am aware"

Since, you know I am wrong, which years/club(s) were they 2nd (or worse?) in the league attendance tables since 1960?


He was being pedantic. Not every year. As my link pointed out.

But post 1955, we've had the best attendances, 40 seasons out of 50.

First pics by me from tonights game vs Westham with the West Quad full of seats.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0978.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0977.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0976.jpg

First pics by me from tonights game vs Westham with the West Quad full of seats.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0978.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0977.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/andysimo123/DSCF0976.jpg

very impressive in its size but looks a bit messy to me, but then i would say that wouldn't i :D

I sat in the North West Quadrant tonight, the view was excellent.

I sat in the North West Quadrant tonight, the view was excellent.
How much that cost you? £30?

How much that cost you? £30?

£37, but being the good fan I am I decided to pay up! Don't get many opportunites to go, best taking the chance while I can.

Newcastle in the late 80's had a league crowd under 10,000 (i was there)..jonny come latelys...cup crowds, horrific turnouts!
Liverpool-shocking cup attendances and some league games not sold out

Utd...even during the fuel strike, at its worse had 63,000 for a euro match

erm....no one else even comes close!

ahhh, the arrogance....

I started to follow football in the 90/91 season and for years it was unheard of for them to not have a full house. It is only in recent seasons in the early rounds of domestic cups and europe that the stadium has not been full. The lowest I can recall was about 47,000 against Leicester(I think) in the league cup a couple of years ago. This still beats any other club aside from Sunderland(just) and Newcastle.

Here is an idean i think the board should consider for a new south stand. They should knock the existing one down next summer and build a new first single tier. that should be completed within the pre season then they should put up a tempory roof just like they did for the quadrants.

Then aleast the new foundations will be already in place and when the time is right they could start covering over the railway and building behind the two corners and new 1st tier without any effect on the capacity. what does everyone else think?

very impressive in its size but looks a bit messy to me, but then i would say that wouldn't i :D

Yes the new seats do seem to sit a bit awkwardly from Andy's photos. Maybe they'll look more even when fully occupied.

I started to follow football in the 90/91 season and for years it was unheard of for them to not have a full house. It is only in recent seasons in the early rounds of domestic cups and europe that the stadium has not been full. The lowest I can recall was about 47,000 against Leicester(I think) in the league cup a couple of years ago. This still beats any other club aside from Sunderland(just) and Newcastle.

I remember United getting 29,000 against Everton in 1992 when there was no Stretford End. Just a big gap and a couple of cranes.

£37, but being the good fan I am I decided to pay up! Don't get many opportunites to go, best taking the chance while I can.
Bloody hell, I would never pay that. I only paid £26.

69,500 attendence!!! When will all the seats be opened up for spectators?

wednesdays game against west ham.http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/tommyfg/Image004.jpg

Must say the atmosphere last night - despite being a totally non important match - was spot on in tier 3.

Think the corners being removed has made the atmosphere miles better, each part of the ground can hear each other now, which stimulates more and more singing.

Next season.

Looks like the one in NW quadrant may be done by the last couple of games this season, i.e. about 72k capacity, however, NE quadrant is miles behind and won't be open until next year, making it 76,400 capacity.

Must say the atmosphere last night - despite being a totally non important match - was spot on in tier 3.

Think the corners being removed has made the atmosphere miles better, each part of the ground can hear each other now, which stimulates more and more singing.
It was a petty shit atmosphere in the first half but when Ruud scored the 2nd half started rocking. I would have loved to have been up in Stretford End but I was in the next best place right next to the away fans. They went quite in the 2nd half "We forgot, We forgot, We forgot that you were here WE FORGOT THAT YOU WERE HERE!"

NW Quad looked nearly there to me last night. Theres a difference between being ready for spectators and being finished.
Sat in the NE Quad last night got covered in concrete dust. Also, the roof wasnt finished and there was wooden panels blocking some areas. Its no where near 'finished' but is open. I suspect that the NW will be open in the next two games for spectators but that United wont put in all of the fancy corporate facilities until the summer break.
My guess is 70K broken next home game and 75K broken before end of season. With bits to finish I think the max attendence of over 76K wont be reached to next season though

Went last night. One thing for me that was worrying was getting home. I really think United need to extend the bridge over the canal or provide another one. It really feels like another 7,000 people may make it unsafe. Also, when people were going under the metro line it came to a stand still and then on the other side people queuing for the alty tram were all the way back to the tunnel ramp reducing capacity. I feel that this issue again could become dangerous with another 7,000 people at the ground. Someone needs to widen the tunnel, or more likely, put in a bridge to ease the congestion in the tunnel. This could become a serious issue if its not deal with over the summer. Also, the trams are now so inadequate its untrue. We really need another 6 doubles at least.
With regards to further expansions, i reckon these will be blocked by the council unless public transport, mainly trams, are improved. This would need to be in the form of Phase three with the Trafford Centre link and more trams. It wouldnt surprise me if the council tries to limit any further increases in capacity to those that could be accomodated 100% with extra public transport provision.

Gavin - people have said exactly the same things as you every time the stadium has been made bigger - yet somehow it continues to 'work'.

I remember people complaining about lack of trams, lack of capacity on the bridges etc when it was first announced the capacity was to go from 45k to 55k with the north stand expansion.

Not to say you aren't correct, but all those issues have been around for 10-15 years now.

And don't forget Barcelona cope with 95,000 crowds in an area also in a suburban setting. A lot of people will walk a fair way to their car or transport.

I'll get some pix of this for you guys when we get a few decent days weather..watch this space

The seat arrangement looks bit... messy?

There is a metro line either side of Camp Nou.

Maybe Isaac, but I doubt 98,000 people get it, and besides theres a Metrolink line either side of Old Trafford :)

Very true, but a six car metro train can shift a lot of people. I would think a lot of people walk to Camp Nou and a lot of out of towners come in by coach. I seem to remember a lot of dusty waste ground around the stadium.

what about the congestion on the train lines up from surrey? :runaway:

The capacity problems of Metrolink could very much be solved by phase 3.

There'd be a new depot storing 55 trams next door to OT tram station, and with the possibility of turning trams at OT and Trafford Bar would enable 'short running'.

Also, the possibility of Trafford Centre line would be able to create easily sufficient capacity.

The problem we have a the moment is simply due to the terrible lack of capacity that was paid for with phase 1 and 2 when the systems were built, and could be relatively easily fixed during phase 3.

Note - the stadium stop proposed near Citeh's ground would have 3 platforms, enabling trams to be 'held' for the rush - not repeating the mistakes of the past.

The atmosphere was good for the West Ham game, especially in Stretford End Tier 2. It was funny when we started singing old player songs and then "Quadrant give us a song"

The 70,000 barrier should be broken for the Arsenal game, I'm looking forward to it.

As for the transport I just leave 2 minutes early and get the train from the station at the ground which has lots of carriages, luckily I've had no problems this year.

The atmosphere was good for the West Ham game, especially in Stretford End Tier 2. It was funny when we started singing old player songs and then "Quadrant give us a song"

The 70,000 barrier should be broken for the Arsenal game, I'm looking forward to it.

As for the transport I just leave 2 minutes early and get the train from the station at the ground which has lots of carriages, luckily I've had no problems this year.
I hate fans who all leave early, I dont see a point in going and paying £26 if your gona leave early and also what happens if United score a last mintue goal, your'll have missed it for no reason what so ever. I always stay to the very end and its not hard getting out.

Agree Andy, early leavers do my head in as well.

Anyway, the seemingly good news regards progress on Metrolink today should help resolve any transport problems in the longer term.

Only ever left early once, and I missed Jimmy Greenhof's third against Newcastle. Heard a great song that day. If you were there you'll know what I mean.

The capacity problems of Metrolink could very much be solved by phase 3.

There'd be a new depot storing 55 trams next door to OT tram station, and with the possibility of turning trams at OT and Trafford Bar would enable 'short running'.

Also, the possibility of Trafford Centre line would be able to create easily sufficient capacity.

The problem we have a the moment is simply due to the terrible lack of capacity that was paid for with phase 1 and 2 when the systems were built, and could be relatively easily fixed during phase 3.

Note - the stadium stop proposed near Citeh's ground would have 3 platforms, enabling trams to be 'held' for the rush - not repeating the mistakes of the past.

That's good news, ever wandered why Feyenoord host so many European finals, check the 8 platform rail station next door.

Looks as though Old Trafford will be hosting England games until 2007, according to the BBC website. Wembley it appears will further delayed making OT the natural alternative due to the venues capacity.

Good news for the city, further boosting it's profile and allowing neutrals to see the 76,000 venue in all its glory.

Still looking forward to seeing Wembley completed, but I feel there's a good argument to play at least a couple of England games in the North.

Problem is the FA need all the money possible from Wembely, therefore all England games will be played in London, even the FA Cup finals will be there to raise extra cash.

I'm sure I read that all semis will be played there as well. It'll be half empty for them.

I worry that the Champions League final may never return to OT because of Wembley, who put's forward the stadium, is it UEFA or the hosting FA ?

I'm sure I read that all semis will be played there as well. It'll be half empty for them.

I worry that the Champions League final may never return to OT because of Wembley, who put's forward the stadium, is it UEFA or the hosting FA ?

I'm pretty sure it's UEFA that recommend them, I was watching an article on BBC N24 a few weeks ago around the new Wembley being considered for a future Champions League final. It talked a lot about UEFA drawing up a short list.

I'm pretty sure it's UEFA that recommend them, I was watching an article on BBC N24 a few weeks ago around the new Wembley being considered for a future Champions League final. It talked a lot about UEFA drawing up a short list.


They already have a shortlist. You need 5 stars for an ECF and 4 stars for a UEFA final. The Council House will get that soon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:UEFA_5_star_stadiums

i love MAN UTD
I AM VENEZUELAN
I LIVE IN BARQUISIMETO,VENEZUELA

I WILL GO TO MANCHESTER IN THIS SUMMER

GLORY,MAN UTD,GLORY MAN UTD

Nike earn around £1 million pounds per game at the megastore. As I said my mates work in there and they have said 98% of the customers in there spend over £150 on match days. They have like 20 tills in there working none stop on a match day in stupid que's. I've been in there before the match and turned round befour I even got anywhere near the till.
I think United earn around £2 million a game from the ground ticket sales, drinks, food, meals, programs and the other shite they sell.
I bought at www.store.manutd.com (shipped via DHL or UPS) but I live in Barquisimeto,Venezuela(Southamerica) I spend 115 US$ for every order

Nice one fella.

PS it's GLORY GLORY MAN UNITED

i love MAN UTD
I AM VENEZUELAN
I LIVE IN BARQUISIMETO,VENEZUELA

I WILL GO TO MANCHESTER IN THIS SUMMER

GLORY,MAN UTD,GLORY MAN UTD

¡Bienvenido!

¿Porqué tienes interes en Manchester United?

I hate fans who all leave early, I dont see a point in going and paying £26 if your gona leave early and also what happens if United score a last mintue goal, your'll have missed it for no reason what so ever. I always stay to the very end and its not hard getting out.

Agree totally with that, not only at the end of the game but leaving early for half team to get a pie or whatever- the guy next to me on Wednesday left about 2 minutes before half time and missed Ruud's goal. It would be the ultimate tragedy for me if I'd paid my money and missed the only goal of the game.

¡Bienvenido!

¿Porqué tienes interes en Manchester United?
por que me gusta el MAN UTD desde los 10 años de edad

i'm big fan since 1985 i 'm red till i die

Fergie said there's going to be 75,000 at the Arsenal game, so they must be opening up the other quadrant. Its going to look quality i think when its full of people but i still don't like the design. It does look very messy with 4 different levels of seating and the Berlin wall on one side.

I can't believe they didn't have a long term strategy, i was told years ago it was to be 3 tiers all the way around. However it does add alot more character to the ground and aleast OT doesn't look like all these new stadiums today that have all been designed the same, (The new Library, Stadio De Luz in lisbon, the councel house) These are all just souless buildings with no character at all. I'm sure they'll sort out the stadium when we eventually do the sounth stand and corners, most likey be 2 tiers with millions of posh seats. Oh well aleast it'll be the biggest stadium in GB and bigger than wembly!

...at least OT doesn't look like all these new stadiums today that have all been designed the same, (The new Library, Stadio De Luz in lisbon, the councel house) These are all just souless buildings with no character at all. I'm sure they'll sort out the stadium when we eventually do the sounth stand and corners, most likey be 2 tiers with millions of posh seats!


These `soul less` sdadiums you refer to.... they are PERFECT in design. Old Trafford is a huge stadium with bits and bobs tagged onto it over the years. Nobody would want to build a stadium like OT from scratch. If imperfection = `character` in your eyes, then so be.

The Emirates Stadium has perfect viewing positions, with the largest seating/legspace of all club stadiums in Europe. Even the seats right up in the back of the top tiers arent too far away from the pitch, unlike at the back of the North/East/West stands at OT where you need a telescope to see whos on the pitch. And where are the large screens at Old Trafford?

And mentioning the `pitch`... did you know that Arsenals stadium will have the very best pitch in the world? How? Well.... the stadium is designed from the outset to promote a good playing surface. A better surface than at Highbury? Is it possible?? You bet it is! Unlike OT pitch which resembles a bog for the winter months.

So... to cap it all.... Emirates stadium has better more comfortable seating, and a better pitch to play football on. Sounds good?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/rolybling/P1010081.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/rolybling/P1010085.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y139/rolybling/P1010080.jpg

OT certainly will have some unique character to it when its completed, and I'm far warmer to the idea that essentially they have never moved, yet they have managed to produce one of the largest stadia in Europe, from what was once a mess, its an impressive achievement. But you can't say other stadia have no soul, because they're new and they're not ugly - which OT is, though hopefully it will be less so, when the South Stand is redone - I certainly did not get the impression during '04 that Da Luz was souless and lacked character. The Emirates has not been tested yet, but again it hardly seems souless in the way that St Mary's or other flatpack, conventional, undramatic stadia are.

You're a bloody diamond with that camera Roly, thanks once again.

Looking a lot better from the outside now. Those new quadrants seem to be giving the old cattle shed a look of cohesion, quality and gravitas finally.

I notice the topmost pointy bits of the new extensions have lost their asymmetric form. Shame. Lets the side down somewhat.




http://www.unitedlinks.co.uk/neq2.jpg

Breaking News- Man Utd new shirt deal has fell through!

nothing's ever simple with utd is it?

Good. An online Casino isn't really appropriate. Plus you can't wear the name of a gambling company in many countries.

Is the perspective/angle wrong on that render? I'm much happier with the external view of the new quadrants than the interna views..

LG it's the new sponsor shirt

LG it's the new sponsor shirt

Reports suggest it's AIG (American International Group):

http://potrebitel.jnews.co.il/insurance/aig/aig.gif

Another Intelligent Goal

ain't it good

Another Income Guaranteed

Could be anyone on the front of the shirts. I can name 10 companies names that have been chucked around. United will likely be in talks with alot of different companies and people.

There will be an announcement at a press conference at Old Trafford this afternoon...

£56.5m over 4 years.
Can still beat Chelsea at some things.

14.1m a year. Mansion were offering more, apparently.

Why would United not go for the largest deal?

Wider 'business' opportunities with AIG. Problems with having a gambling company - wouldn't go down well in some parts of the States and Islamic countries. AIG being a US country and that.... although I'm not convinced that there is much money to be made from the septics.

I think it had something to do with the gambling issue. The NFL would've not been happy with Glazer's association with an online gambling firm. I think the Glazers used them to get a better deal with another company. It's a pretty good deal, regardless though, especially considering they didn't have long to find a suitable one.

And AIG was involved with the takeover. So, it probably worked out better for everyone.

Also, the touted Mansion figures only came from...Mansion. They probably bumped up the figures to put the eventual agreement between AIG and United in the shade.

And gain some free publicity.

Next years ST prices!!!! Plenty of empty seats I predict!!!!!!!!!!!

East/West Lower £479
North Stand Tier 3 £546
West Stand Tier 2 £594
East/West Stand Upper £594
Family Stand £594
NE/NW Quadrants and EL132 £613
North Stand Tier 2 £690
South Stand Lower £728
North Stand Tier 1 Lower £728
South Stand Upper Wings £824
North Stand Tier 1 Upper Wings £824
South Stand Upper Centre £844
North Stand Tier 1 Upper Centre £844

Next years ST prices!!!! Plenty of empty seats I predict!!!!!!!!!!!

East/West Lower £479
North Stand Tier 3 £546
West Stand Tier 2 £594
East/West Stand Upper £594
Family Stand £594
NE/NW Quadrants and EL132 £613
North Stand Tier 2 £690
South Stand Lower £728
North Stand Tier 1 Lower £728
South Stand Upper Wings £824
North Stand Tier 1 Upper Wings £824
South Stand Upper Centre £844
North Stand Tier 1 Upper Centre £844


What are this season's prices?

Also, the touted Mansion figures only came from...Mansion. They probably bumped up the figures to put the eventual agreement between AIG and United in the shade.


Gill said he turned down a bigger deal. (Probably Mansion.)

And AIG was involved with the takeover. So, it probably worked out better for everyone.

Perhaps it's in lieu of their fee.

Next years ST prices!!!! Plenty of empty seats I predict!!!!!!!!!!!

East/West Lower £479
North Stand Tier 3 £546
West Stand Tier 2 £594
East/West Stand Upper £594
Family Stand £594
NE/NW Quadrants and EL132 £613
North Stand Tier 2 £690
South Stand Lower £728
North Stand Tier 1 Lower £728
South Stand Upper Wings £824
North Stand Tier 1 Upper Wings £824
South Stand Upper Centre £844
North Stand Tier 1 Upper Centre £844

Quick look.... West Stand Tier 2 (Stretty end)

2006-7 £594 20% increase!!! Will pay, no choice, can't support the Divs!

2005-6 £494
2004-5 £440
2003-4 £408
2002-3 £399
2001-2 £380
2000-1 £361

What are this season's prices?


About 20% lower!!!

About 20% lower!!!


Fuck. What a rip off.

Glaizer needs to pay of the hedge funds, and it's going to be the fans who end up paying.

Fucking shit to be honest, but very very predictable.

I've got an FC United season Ticket. Haven't used it yet.

I've got an FC United season Ticket. Haven't used it yet.

Whats the point in that?

Why do fans in England always get shafted? Spain, Germany and Italy - much cheaper prices.

So if my ticket has gone up 60%+ in 7 seasons you can see how the Glazer's (or anyone with the money) can buy Utd...it's like your house mortgage....in another 7 years ...revenues will be circa £100m a season from season ticket sales...easily enough to pay the interest on the debt......

With the season ticket increase (£10m a season more) + capacity increase (£10m a season more) + sponsership news (£6m a season more) + whatever other deals are to be done ...then the Glazers/United are £26m a season better off!!

So that would profits of c£70million a season and debt repayments of approx £30m...easily affordable and with room to spare.... no wonder they got the money from the banks!

Cos clubs in Europe are not owned by Yanks trying to afford the hedge fund interest rates???

Still annoying these increases... at least after 3 years of poor fare we can look forward to 2 up-front and a decent midfield next year....a team/club worthy of the stupendous amount of money we plough in each year...

I think United should offer some kind of repayment scheme for fans, direct debit payment or some other inducement other than buying with their credit card... it would not be ideal but at least would help people pay for the ticket.

Thing is, will people pay those prices???

I seriously doubt it.

London clubs pay as much, if not more. Arsenal fans will pay a lot more at their new ground. Glazer's a cunt...and he'll fuck the fans over more, in future. But he's doing what every club 'owner' does in this country. Shaft the fans. It's getting ridiculous.

Thing is, will people pay those prices???

I seriously doubt it.


That's what I'm trying to get at. When will the fans say 'no'.

I'm sure there will be a limit. I hope so.

I don't know what my limit would be.... at least with United the money was always there to be seen...

the stadium (which is light years better than the crumbling bowls on the continent..eg the SanSiro is a disgrace to a toilet)

Wayne Rooney
Carrington

...and urm Rio's wages!!

When Utd play crap (3 years!) I only get annoyed at the cost when I see players who can't trap a bag of cement (©Fletcher & O'Shea) and control a ball further than I can kick it (©Greavsie ).... the suits have never really entered in the equation..... bo**ocks to that...

KENYON, when he let Ronny got to Barca for £1m that was annoying!

Whats the point in that?

I used to have one at Old Trafford, I hardly used that either.

This one's cheaper

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4882640.stm

Its done.

A saw the Montreal Canadiens a couple of years ago. It was 60 pounds a ticket and those were mid priced.

AIG = Ashely Is Gay apparently.

Next years ST prices!!!! Plenty of empty seats I predict!!!!!!!!!!!

East/West Lower £479
North Stand Tier 3 £546
West Stand Tier 2 £594
East/West Stand Upper £594
Family Stand £594
NE/NW Quadrants and EL132 £613
North Stand Tier 2 £690
South Stand Lower £728
North Stand Tier 1 Lower £728
South Stand Upper Wings £824
North Stand Tier 1 Upper Wings £824
South Stand Upper Centre £844
North Stand Tier 1 Upper Centre £844
Where did you get that from? because this is a fucking joke. There is no need to put them up 20%. They are going to make an extra £16 million+ from the new seats and then they have just got a new sponsor worth £14+ million a year. Thats £20 million extra per year no bloody need for it.

If that extra £20m goes towards signing the next Cantona or Keane to propel them back to No1 then most people will be happy.

If that extra £20m goes towards signing the next Cantona or Keane to propel them back to No1 then most people will be happy.
I mean its an extra £20 million year before rising ticket prices.

I mean its an extra £20 million year before rising ticket prices.

Certain people did predict this.

Maybe they can get a new Cantona AND Keane then :)

Much as it was all predictable...UTD are still cheaper than most, considering they are easily the biggest draw in UK football then I guess we are lucky!?!?!

If Roman still charges Chelsea fans obsene money then what hope has anyone else?

The difference between now and say 15 years ago is the availability of matches on Sky, and hooky foreign showings in pubs....at least now we have a choice to go to the match or not..... although it may end up like the rugby with a load of toffs eating out of hampers on the forecourt!!!

Despite being a Liverpool fan since childhood, I actually think pretty highly of what Manchester United have done over the years with Old Trafford. It is essentially an adapted structure -- after all, it has been in use for 97 years and if I'm not mistaken there are still a few parts of the original structure in the lower level of the South Stand -- and yet, despite the screw up on the angle of the second tier of the North Stand in the mid 1990s, it still works coherently. It was a very simple design to start with and essentially kept very simple, and apart from that one deviation from the script they have pretty much kept to a plan. Arsenal had little choice but to vacate Highbury; apart from being a listed architectural masterpiece rather than a basic but easily adaptable structure, they don't have the luxury of being on an industrial estate with room to grow, so they had to go and steal the industrial estate next door . . . .

One thing Manchester United have always been about with regard to fans is volume, rather than charging the maximum (although the whole Premiership is getting awfully expensive). I remember in the 1980s Simon Inglis in his excellent football ground guide pointing out that you could get two main stand seats in the best section and parking at Old Trafford for less than the price of one comparable seat at White Hart Lane. I think the new "quadrants" are a good sign of at least some possibility of continuing that tradition -- after all they will end up 16,000 seats ahead of Arsenal overall and with a far lower proportion of premium seating.

I hope Liverpool get their stadium situation sorted out. During the dark depths of the 1980s, Man Utd were the only club never to drop below 40,000 for average attendance -- Liverpool were the only other one never to go below 30,000 for a season average. So Liverpool kind of have that tradition of volume support too -- only they're seriously running out of seats to sell.

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/57292316.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A8E08AB6303F3BD1974854FFF91D748C6E

On a releated note, I think we now see how the Glazers propose to finance their leveraged buyout of the soccerball kickerz . . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_utd/4895330.stm

If they sell out the quadrants along with the rest of the stadium on the new price scheme, it adds up to a 25 percent increase in seat revenue. I guess no more "two-for-the-price-of-one" vis a vis Tottenham, even if Man Utd lamely plead that they are simply at the Premiership average.


Nice choice of image Gavin, though it really does show that they need to put transparent panels in the north stand roof. With everything canted down like that I'll bet it feels claustrophobic.

Got tickets for the Sunderland game - NW quandrant tier 2. Anyone sat round there? Is it a decent view, or are all players like ants on a cabbage leaf?

Got tickets for the Sunderland game - NW quandrant tier 2. Anyone sat round there? Is it a decent view, or are all players like ants on a cabbage leaf?
You phone up on the ticket lines? because I have tried getting through and its a joke.

You phone up on the ticket lines? because I have tried getting through and its a joke.

It is a joke mate. All you get is commentary of goals whilst your on hold for 10 minutes. I booked on the net. Kept on saying the server was busy, but I just carried on trying.

you won't be giving fergie a wave.

depends if you at the back or not, if so then the far corner flag will be tiny.

Should be bouncing like an easter bunny on Friday!

you won't be giving fergie a wave.

depends if you at the back or not, if so then the far corner flag will be tiny.

Should be bouncing like an easter bunny on Friday!

I'm hoping the atmosphere will be awesome if nothing else! I think it's row 7...

I am row 38 so you will be 7 from the `drop'..that should be a perfect spot to be honest...I would prefer to be 10-15 rows lower down at least...virtually last to leave the ground so far back!

We play the Macums before Chelsea play Bolton so should be 4pts behind with goal difference closer than the current 8.

Then we play Spurs before Chelsea play Everton.... will probably have clearer idea of how close we can get to Chelsea after that.... could be a tremendous weekend.

Press went overboard about the West Ham result, no one doubts theire home record, it is their recent, appalling (for a championship chasing side) away form.... if we can get them to drop points at 2 of Bolton/Blackburn/Newcastle then we could (in theory) be only 3 point behind.... then the game at Chelsea will have a big say.

In recent times the big difference is that Utd & Arsenal in former years played attacking/exciting football. Chelsea, I just don't rate as a force, they are consistent but their best is below Arsenal/Utd's now and in former seasons.

That is why there is a chance...we play a consistent team in Chelsea but if we both play well, I think utd are better and will win the Stamford Bridge match.

If things go Pete Tong then we can look forward to next season, with a couple of cheeky buys.... finishing 5pts ish behind Chelsea, with our midfield will be an astonishing performance this year in itself

Beating Chelsea to the league will be incredible.

What has helped United... scoring goals, 100+ again this season, better than anyone else by quite a margin.... thanks to Rooney, Ruud, Saha.

Chelsea need a striker, why Roman has not bought one decent one in his 3 seasons is beyond me... it is critical to achieving in crunch games... Chelsea don't do this...they are just consistent, never brilliant or flowing.

I am row 38 so you will be 7 from the `drop'..that should be a perfect spot to be honest...I would prefer to be 10-15 rows lower down at least...virtually last to leave the ground so far back!

We play the Macums before Chelsea play Bolton so should be 4pts behind with goal difference closer than the current 8.

Then we play Spurs before Chelsea play Everton.... will probably have clearer idea of how close we can get to Chelsea after that.... could be a tremendous weekend.

Press went overboard about the West Ham result, no one doubts theire home record, it is their recent, appalling (for a championship chasing side) away form.... if we can get them to drop points at 2 of Bolton/Blackburn/Newcastle then we could (in theory) be only 3 point behind.... then the game at Chelsea will have a big say.

In recent times the big difference is that Utd & Arsenal in former years played attacking/exciting football. Chelsea, I just don't rate as a force, they are consistent but their best is below Arsenal/Utd's now and in former seasons.

That is why there is a chance...we play a consistent team in Chelsea but if we both play well, I think utd are better and will win the Stamford Bridge match.

If things go Pete Tong then we can look forward to next season, with a couple of cheeky buys.... finishing 5pts ish behind Chelsea, with our midfield will be an astonishing performance this year in itself

Beating Chelsea to the league will be incredible.

What has helped United... scoring goals, 100+ again this season, better than anyone else by quite a margin.... thanks to Rooney, Ruud, Saha.

Chelsea need a striker, why Roman has not bought one decent one in his 3 seasons is beyond me... it is critical to achieving in crunch games... Chelsea don't do this...they are just consistent, never brilliant or flowing.

Couldn't agree more with practically everything you say. Chelsea tonking West Ham at home was no surprise. And they've got a tough run-in. The fact that both our next two games fall ahead of Chelsea's will show us what they're made of.

I don't however see Newcastle away as a stumbling block like many do - I see that as three easy points. I see Everton as a potential unforeseen banana skin. I know it's at home, but when Everton are in the mood, they're a bastard to play against.

I know there's only five games left, but if we win all ours (including the 6 pointer), I think we have a great chance. I can see Chelsea droping the other four points. Don't get me wrong - Chelsea are still favourites to win the league - but they'll really have to work hard to win it.

As as you say, if we don't win it this year, to come so close with the season/personnel we've had in the past 9 months, it's damn impressive.

If we manage to bag Diarra in the Summer, we'll be a proper force next season...

Couldn't agree more with practically everything you say. Chelsea tonking West Ham at home was no surprise. And they've got a tough run-in. The fact that both our next two games fall ahead of Chelsea's will show us what they're made of.

I don't however see Newcastle away as a stumbling block like many do - I see that as three easy points. I see Everton as a potential unforeseen banana skin. I know it's at home, but when Everton are in the mood, they're a bastard to play against.

I know there's only five games left, but if we win all ours (including the 6 pointer), I think we have a great chance. I can see Chelsea droping the other four points. Don't get me wrong - Chelsea are still favourites to win the league - but they'll really have to work hard to win it.

As as you say, if we don't win it this year, to come so close with the season/personnel we've had in the past 9 months, it's damn impressive.

If we manage to bag Diarra in the Summer, we'll be a proper force next season...
Ye there are alot of stories going around about that Diarra.
Stuff like:
United have already set up a deal for him which will be done this week.
Lyon wont sell him for less that £25 million which I think is stupid.
Lyon are waiting for Real to put an offer in.
Diarra doesnt want to go to United he wants to go to Real.

All of them un-true apart from one, theres a skysports top story on their website and its "Lyon warn United over Diarra", its the only true story but you know what chair men are like they talk full of shite. Hes qotued as saying "But people have to know he will be more expensive than Essien." The thing is Essien isnt worth £25 million its only because Chelsea put an offer in of £30 million and then Lyon said then wanted the same amount of money which had nowt to do with them. Now they are doing the same thing again, I dont think United will pay over £20 million for him.

Ye there are alot of stories going around about that Diarra.
Stuff like:
United have already set up a deal for him which will be done this week.
Lyon wont sell him for less that £25 million which I think is stupid.
Lyon are waiting for Real to put an offer in.
Diarra doesnt want to go to United he wants to go to Real.

All of them un-true apart from one, theres a skysports top story on their website and its "Lyon warn United over Diarra", its the only true story but you know what chair men are like they talk full of shite. Hes qotued as saying "But people have to know he will be more expensive than Essien." The thing is Essien isnt worth £25 million its only because Chelsea put an offer in of £30 million and then Lyon said then wanted the same amount of money which had nowt to do with them. Now they are doing the same thing again, I dont think United will pay over £20 million for him.

I can see this turning into the big drawn out transfer saga of the Summer...

I've got my hopes the new regime will bring a bit of professionalism to the arena and expertise.

Regardless of what the anti-Glazer brigade.....

..... ( I am not in favour of the debt, but couldn't give a toss if it's dodgy school meat seller Edwards snr, or flasher Edwards Jnr, Knightrider Knighton, Mad Dog Murdoch, my Pa's pension fund, or some new franchise owner in-charge of the club cus there is nothing that can be done about it).......

say, I feel these guys will cut to the chase unlike Kenyon who had Chelsea on his mind and the city suits.

I am more hopeful of the good old days when Cantona & Andy Cole just arrived with no warning.

Maybe the Glazers can just say yeah/nay with a couple of quick phone calls. Not sure about french league signings...Chelsea have bought dross for £46m from their in the last 2 summers...have to be sure...I would prefer Villareal/Argie boy Riquelme who is just class and is about to knock the Arse out of Europe. He doesn't defend or track back they say.....Cantona anyone!?

I've got my hopes the new regime will bring a bit of professionalism to the arena and expertise.

Regardless of what the anti-Glazer brigade.....

..... ( I am not in favour of the debt, but couldn't give a toss if it's dodgy school meat seller Edwards snr, or flasher Edwards Jnr, Knightrider Knighton, Mad Dog Murdoch, my Pa's pension fund, or some new franchise owner in-charge of the club cus there is nothing that can be done about it).......

say, I feel these guys will cut to the chase unlike Kenyon who had Chelsea on his mind and the city suits.

I am more hopeful of the good old days when Cantona & Andy Cole just arrived with no warning.

Maybe the Glazers can just say yeah/nay with a couple of quick phone calls. Not sure about french league signings...Chelsea have bought dross for £46m from their in the last 2 summers...have to be sure...I would prefer Villareal/Argie boy Riquelme who is just class and is about to knock the Arse out of Europe. He doesn't defend or track back they say.....Cantona anyone!?

I'm not a Glazer fan at all, but you'd have thought we were previously owned by angels - anyone who's read Betrayal of a Legend knows that the Edwards family were as crooked as f*ck.

Riquelme's a lot stronger on the ball than people give him credit for, and I think he'd be better suited to the Prem than say Seba...but he'd need a dedicated Diarra or Makalale sort behind him.

Isnt Riquelme more of a right winger, than a central midfield player? I wouldnt mind it if he did come him just hope he can kick some life into the midfield.

Nobody think Nolan is good enough?

Isnt Riquelme more of a right winger, than a central midfield player? I wouldnt mind it if he did come him just hope he can kick some life into the midfield.


He's their playmaker. In the mould of Veron. Not sure if England's suited to him. And he needs a team built around him.

We've been awesome of late. With or without a brilliant centre midfielder. Giggsy's been class.

Considering we have 3 left-backs at the club..Johnny, Mickey, Gabby oh and the boot boy Eva can't we have ooh I dunno maybe 4 midfielders next year IN TOTAL.

£25-35 million should see 2 class midfielders (proven) and a a youngster coming in...

maybe Ballack still, the "Chelsea have signed him" boys doth protest too much for a done deal.. how many times do they need to say he is signing for them for them to realise he maybe is keeping his Real/Utd/Milan options open....

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/57292316.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19364A19ADEE617E8A8E08AB6303F3BD1974854FFF91D748C6E

truely awesome :eek2:

That pic reminds me of St. James's park... surely the other quadrant will be full next game?

Fire crews called to Old Trafford
Firefighters were called to tackle a blaze at Manchester United's Old Trafford football ground.

Crews were called at about noon after a fire started at the rear terrace on the seventh floor of the stadium where building work is taking place.

The fire service said it was put out within 40 minutes by three fire engines and an aerial appliance.

More than 25 firefighters dealt with the fire and building workers were cleared from the site.

Scaffolding and a gas cylinder being used at the building site at the ground were involved in the incident, said a spokesman for the fire service.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4903262.stm

The police are suspecting arsene

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/jordi20012002/OTrafford.jpg

I watched it live from my office window....

Liverpool supporters got the popcorn out.

Not sure after today's fire....Sunderland next up on Friday evening, they may be open some up though c72,000 for Friday...nice little earner.

People criticise the roof angle but it means all the noise is channelled towards the pitch. Too many new build grounds/stands such as St.James's, Emirates, Middlesborough etc etc have roofs which do not add to the acoustics.

The stands at OT in my opinion seem to hunch over the pitch, adding to the effect of their size, if they ever complete the south stand it will be easily the most impressive stadium for atmosphere and effect. The new wembley justs looks to bright and airy...not imposing itself depsite its size.

I bet the roof design does give a better atmosphere due to all that sound being 'trapped' and channeled down to the pitch.

Take another look at the roof on the emirates stadium, you'll notice that it is also angled in a similar way to that of 3 out of 4 stands at old trafford although at a smaller angle. Acoustics, along with other factors, contibuted to that decision.

Can see todays fire on this picture...

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=4/10106113962.jpg&s=x11

Fly - going to be loads of empties for Sunderland I suspect - tickets are on General Sale.

Fly - going to be loads of empties for Sunderland I suspect - tickets are on General Sale.

And £38 a pop, daylight robbery!

Indeed, and with the price rises next year I expect it will become a regular occurance.

Glazer has seriously under estimated how fragile the situation is with what people will be willing to put up with in my opinion.

And £38 a pop, daylight robbery!
38 quid? I've just been on the site. Its £31 if your not a member and £25 if you are.

That's a cracker Toady!
But the paintshop job is a bit of a weird do. Looks like Lee Van Cleef 'caging it off' in the ring with Tyson.

I stole it from somewhere else.

What was the outcome of this 'event'?

^^ The cage fight? Cleef won - shot tyson in the chin.
The fire was put out quickly enough, a bit of damage but nothing else to report Toady.
Nice to see you in these parts! You ever make it back into the city proper of late?

Not since about last October.

Back for the semi though, I hope my seat isn't charred. Got my eyes on a little boozer by the Boddies brewery for a pre match snifter, cracking little place for pre and post arena drinks as well, should be quiet enough there - avoid the clash of the scals and mass section 60ing by GMP.

People criticise the roof angle but it means all the noise is channelled towards the pitch. Too many new build grounds/stands such as St.James's, Emirates, Middlesborough etc etc have roofs which do not add to the acoustics.


Umm this posts really shows ur irgnorance, the Emirates stadium roof is designed to add to the acoustics, it has also been criticised for having a sloping roof. c'mon if ur gonna post something at least do ur research!!!!

Umm this posts really shows ur irgnorance, the Emirates stadium roof is designed to add to the acoustics, it has also been criticised for having a sloping roof. c'mon if ur gonna post something at least do ur research!!!!

Fair enough, stand corrected.

Don't show your own ignorance of politeness though.

This isn't meant as a wind-up cos I feel genuinely sorry for you grass-roots ManU fans in terms of what the Glazers will be doing during their tenure at the ManU "franchise". However I can't help but think that you've enjoyed the massive riches that going plc at the right time brought and gloated for many a year how you've been the richest club in the world and wallowed in a trough of riches whilst lauding how successful you suddenly became. However what you have seen with the arrival of the Glazers is the downside of going publicly listed ie. you're on sale to anyone who has the money, pretty much regardless of their motives. (The "ManU- not for sale" banners did raise a wry smile last year when the club had actually been sold on the open market some 10 years earlier)

What are the views of ManU fans now that the Glazers have settled in a bit? I'd be interested to hear. As far as the season ticket prices are concerned a 20% rise is always a bummer but by premiership standards they're still pretty cheap, let's hope for your sakes it stays that way

Very good questions bob, did you think all that up for yourself?

You should really be concentrating on the sale of LFC whether there is a suitable buyer or not.

Because if one don't come with a wad soon, you don't get no new stadium.

This isn't meant as a wind-up cos I feel genuinely sorry for you grass-roots ManU fans in terms of what the Glazers will be doing during their tenure at the ManU "franchise". However I can't help but think that you've enjoyed the massive riches that going plc at the right time brought and gloated for many a year how you've been the richest club in the world and wallowed in a trough of riches whilst lauding how successful you suddenly became. However what you have seen with the arrival of the Glazers is the downside of going publicly listed ie. you're on sale to anyone who has the money, pretty much regardless of their motives. (The "ManU- not for sale" banners did raise a wry smile last year when the club had actually been sold on the open market some 10 years earlier)

What are the views of ManU fans now that the Glazers have settled in a bit? I'd be interested to hear. As far as the season ticket prices are concerned a 20% rise is always a bummer but by premiership standards they're still pretty cheap, let's hope for your sakes it stays that way

Well this is from the FC United forum, with regard a now infamous press conference yesterday



ok, we have asked five hacks who were there today for their on-the-record views - including the guy who asked the FCUM question - and this is the summary.

the hacks had been asking fergie for his views on various non-MUFC teams/issues, including Spurs, Chelsea etc etc.

"last question" was called and Stuart Mathieson of the M.E.N., who was sat near the front, piped up. Now he had been *instructed* by his superiors at MEN Sport to ask about the main story of their morning edition, which had been FCUM's promotion.

that story, mainly via the pic of the team celebrating, filled half of the back page. it was the first time since the start of the season that FCUM had been deemed worthy of a 'lead story'.

Mathieson, who is not a boat-rocker or trouble-maker and who, as a City fan, has no especial affinity for FCUM, did not ask the Q in order to get Fergie going or to cause aggro: his superiors wanted the Q put.

Mathieson, in light of the last few minutes' of people asking for the boss's views on how other teams were doing, asked Fergie for his views on "Karl Marginson leading FC United to promotion."

all 5 witnesses agree that Fergie said *something like* 'who? who?' OR 'who's that? who?'

all agree that the word 'who?' was in the response: witnesses vary on what that meant [see below]

after the question was repeated, all 5 agree that Fergie visibly angered, went bright red and replied sharply "you must be joking" and then left the room hastily.

now then: two hacks described his departure as 'storming off' and 3 said he just exited as fast as possible. All 5 do agree, however, that he was clearly very angry and that Mathieson had obviously pissed him off by asking the question. but it was the end of the press gig so although he was pissed off, it wasn't like he actually cut it short or owt. it might have looked like he was 'storming out' cos he was pretty annoyed and bright red but he would say he was on his way out in any event.

as for what he said, you will have to make your own interpretation as to what he meant by either of his replies. the latter reply could just be seen as simply a statement of his view that he shouldn't be expected to comment at all. some might argue that since he was commenting about other teams for the previous 5 minutes, it wouldn't be out of order for him to be asked by the local media rep about the local media's main story of the day. obviously that's what the MEN must have felt. others will say it was too provocative, given the obvious political sensibilities.

of the 5 hacks questioned, three - *including Stuart Mathieson* - felt that Fergie was partly thrown by the FCUM question and Karl's name and was either playing for time or asking for the question to be put in more clarified form. Two, however, felt it was more a 'who's he? who are they?' response, an affectation to pretend he didn't know to whom the questioner was referring. all agree, however, that 'hairdryer red' was Fergie's facial setting when he was asked it a second time.

as soon as Fergie 'stormed out'/exited sharply, a Man Utd official went straight over to Mathieson and made a remark about the MEN apparently becoming the official FCUM newspaper - presumably a reference to the back page that morning.
A couple of sources told us that the OT Marketing & Commercial Department suits had been "fuming" to them all morning about the press coverage of FCUM today and it might appear to some that a collective mindset had set in at OT over the coverage. The official then rather alarmingly said - and these quotes have *not* been supplied by Stuart Mathieson but by another journalist in the best position to know:

MUFC: "Has the M.E.N. got a press pass for FCUM games, then?"

MEN: "Yes, just as we have for Bury, Rochdale, Macc Town and all the other teams at that level who have enough fans to justify coverage in their local paper."

MUFC: "Well, maybe you won't be needing two M.E.N. passes for Old Trafford next season, then."

Another M.E.N. reporter told us: "That sounds like a threat to me. I just hope the management here have the balls to call their bluff."

A Sunday newspaper journalist who witnessed the exchange commented: "It's a disgrace. United seem to be threatening to blackmail the M.E.N. into choking off their coverage of FCUM or else. I can't believe they are even getting involved with this - they are ten divisions above them, aren't they?"

Marginson and FC United refused even to comment when hacks called about this and RI's understanding is that they have no wish to cause any argy-bargy over this.

Two mildly comic post-scripts. If there's one thing for sure, no matter how you interpret Fergie's comments, he knows who Karl M is: it was Fergie who personally sent scouts to watch the young Marginson play for Ashton in 1989 when he was an upcoming player. And on the forecourt today, as the hacks left, were a Korean TV crew who United's press office have been helping film a primetime special on Park and the Club. One asked where they'd been filming last night: "ah, we went to FC United - it was fun, lots of footage!" Oh dear...


Any opposition to the franchise is either ignored or quashed. But the protest does continue whether they like it or not

Well this is from the FC United forum, with regard a now infamous press conference yesterday



Any opposition to the franchise is either ignored or quashed. But the protest does continue whether they like it or not

:laugh:

FC United has nowt to do with Manchester United or Old Trafford create your own thread for it.

FC United has nowt to do with Manchester United or Old Trafford create your own thread for it.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

FC United has nowt to do with Manchester United or Old Trafford create your own thread for it.

You really are a fucking moron.

You really are a fucking moron.

The "f*cking morons'" watch football at Gigg Lane.

In fact you can post anything you like for or against Manchester United or FC United.

What shouldn't be tolerated is the self-appointed thought police who get all tetchy at the very mention of FC United like they threaten the very existence of the mighty Manchester United.

Why shouldn't FC United stuff get posted on a football based thread? I don't see Andysimo moaning away about the irrelevant shite being posted on the Inacity thread for example.

And not only has he the gall to tell people what they can and cannot post, he posts utter insulting drivel like 'FC United have nothing to do with Manchester United'.

That comment is so obviously ludicrous and ill-informed that it is beneath contempt.

So the accusation stands.

You really are a fucking moron.
No. FC United isnt Manchester United, its like talking about City in this thread. Also wtf has FC United got to do with Manchester United making there ground bigger? Thats right FUCK ALL, so piss off and create your own thread, am fed up of hearing about Glazer this and FC United that. Thats old news am looking forwards to the future.

No. FC United isnt Manchester United, its like talking about City in this thread. Also wtf has FC United got to do with Manchester United making there ground bigger? Thats right FUCK ALL, so piss off and create your own thread, am fed up of hearing about Glazer this and FC United that. Thats old news am looking forwards to the future.

A large portion of this thread has nothing to do with making OT bigger but is about general United-related issues. I don't recall anyone objecting to that. FC United is just as relevant to this thread as the identity of next season's shirt sponsor.

A large portion of this thread has nothing to do with making OT bigger but is about general United-related issues. I don't recall anyone objecting to that. FC United is just as relevant to this thread as the identity of next season's shirt sponsor.
Ye but FC United isnt United is it?

If this thread is to do with Stadia capicity am I allowed to comment on Droylsden FC's capacity of 3500?

If the future is paying £40 or £50 to sit with a bunch of glory hunters and day trippers in a near silent stadium, watching overpaid mediocrities (Mr Rooney honourable exception) then you are welcome to it.

The experience at Old Trafford today is a feeble mockery of what it once was, ruined by greed and the thought police (sit down, don't swear, don't sing).

I went to nearly every game at OT for 19 years (1986-2005). It has changed beyond recognition in all that time. The way the spirit of the club has been strangled and the best fans in football slowly priced out is a tragedy.

The Stretford End of 1986 or even 1993 would have sucked the ball into the Sunderland net. Tonight I saw empty seats with 10 minutes to go, Sunderland fans outsinging us all game and boos at the end.

I love United, they're in my heart, but I won't be part of its desecration any more.

At FC United the passion is still there. And we are all Reds - Manchester United fans, whether you like it or not.

If the future is paying £40 or £50 to sit with a bunch of glory hunters and day trippers in a near silent stadium, watching overpaid mediocrities (Mr Rooney honourable exception) then you are welcome to it.

The experience at Old Trafford today is a feeble mockery of what it once was, ruined by greed and the thought police (sit down, don't swear, don't sing).

I went to nearly every game at OT for 19 years (1986-2005). It has changed beyond recognition in all that time. The way the spirit of the club has been strangled and the best fans in football slowly priced out is a tragedy.

The Stretford End of 1986 or even 1993 would have sucked the ball into the Sunderland net. Tonight I saw empty seats with 10 minutes to go, Sunderland fans outsinging us all game and boos at the end.

I love United, they're in my heart, but I won't be part of its desecration any more.

At FC United the passion is still there. And we are all Reds - Manchester United fans, whether you like it or not.
Ok mate we were shit tonight, also am pissed off because I wasted £27 to United draw with the bottom team in the league when we should have hammered them 6-0 atleast, anyway made something just for you.

Ye but FC United isnt United is it?

It is and it isn't. It's like the holy trinity. In two parts. They're one and the same but different. The songs are the same. Everyone goes to watch big United in the pub afterwards. Everyone's still a red.

Not sure after today's fire....Sunderland next up on Friday evening, they may be open some up though c72,000 for Friday...nice little earner.

People criticise the roof angle but it means all the noise is channelled towards the pitch. Too many new build grounds/stands such as St.James's, Emirates, Middlesborough etc etc have roofs which do not add to the acoustics.

The stands at OT in my opinion seem to hunch over the pitch, adding to the effect of their size, if they ever complete the south stand it will be easily the most impressive stadium for atmosphere and effect. The new wembley justs looks to bright and airy...not imposing itself depsite its size.

They generate some incredible atmosphere in the US in roofless stadiums. In contrast, the University of Minnesota's football team, despite the benefit of playing in an indoor stadium that is notoriously noisy for its professional tenants, doesn't see any noise at home games at all except of the wrong kind when there is a visiting team such as Iowa that brings 30,000 fans with them, simply because U of M's own support is both small in quantity and quiet in voice. I think more probably depends on the fans themselves -- also some of the best US venues for atmosphere are the older ones with stands very close to the touchlines, such as Kinnick Stadium in Iowa City (college football, no cover at all) and of course Fenway Park in Boston (Red Sox, limited cover). OT is well endowed in this regard, a modern scale stadium with noisy fans, yet built basically on the original 1909 plan, so the fans are breathing down players' necks.

Fair enough, stand corrected.

Don't show your own ignorance of politeness though.

I think my posts was relatively polite actually, wots rude about it?

No. FC United isnt Manchester United, its like talking about City in this thread. Also wtf has FC United got to do with Manchester United making there ground bigger? Thats right FUCK ALL, so piss off and create your own thread, am fed up of hearing about Glazer this and FC United that. Thats old news am looking forwards to the future.


Thanks for creating us poor FC'ers our own thread Andy, I was worried that we didnt have a place in this world.

In response to why this thread turned in the direction of FC, somebody asked how fans felt about ticket prices and the new owners (what may I ask has that got to do with OT's expansion),

FC is a genuin response to these questions, because believe it or not, FC didnt exist this time last year, in fact we pretty much were sat in the same stadium you sit in week in week out. Do you remember why we were set up?

Now it saddens me that many felt obliged to stand by their principles and leave in protest, this has obviously offended you in some way. Obviously your not a United away supporter, because if you were, you would know that many of the people in the United away end are FC'ers. I wonder if they see the link between Big United and FC?

I never realised that 11 months could be so easily forgotten, but obviously shallow people have short memories.

Maybe you should stop being easily offended by a club 9 divisions below your franchise, and remember whats what


Here's an FC chant

Dont pay Glazer
Or Work for Sky
Still sing City are gonna die
Two United's but the Soul is one
As The Busby Babes Carry On

Is it OK to post it on here then Andy?

"When I broke the story that rebel Manchester United fans, alienated by the pending takeover at Old Trafford by Malcolm Glazer, were planning to form a breakaway club there were some people who dismissed them as crackpots.

Fourteen months on, FC United of Manchester are champions of the North west Counties second division.

And it seems even the suits at the so called Theatre of Dreams are now having nightmares about what is happening 12 miles away at Gigg Lane.

last week, when given the chance to acknowledge the achievements of Karl marginson and his team, Sir Alex Ferguson walked away from a press conference in some embarrasment.

I also understand the commercial department of the self styled biggest club in the world were less than impressed about the local rag devoting the back page to a 4 -1 win over Chadderton which sent them to within nine divisions of the Premiership itself.

There was apparantly even a vieled threat made to the paper that they would have their accreditation for United games removed if they continued to report a story which gives every football fan in Britain belief that sanity will one day be restored to the game.

FC United have pulled in average gates of 3,000 - more than many football league clubs - and their founders and supporters should be lauded for carrying out their threat to walk away from the most glamorous club in the country on principle.

But lets be honest, even if they win promotion for the next nine seasons, they will never rival Manchester United. So what is all the paranoia at Old Trafford?

Perhaps its the fact that while the Glazer clan talk about Manchester United being "a great franchise" the two words at the forefronf of the other United are Football Club.

maybe theyre worried the local council may offer FC an open topped bus parade of the city. More likely its the fact that while Old Traffords capacity will increase to 76,000 next season, United continue to lose their soul.

last week the club confirmed its ticket prices are to rise by 10 per cent and more next season as the Glazers attempt to raise enough cash to meet the debts they took out to complete theit takeover.

Why should a father break the bank to take his kids to the game when hes got Sky and can get his fix of live football bt shelling out £7 for adults and £2 for Under-18s across the town at Gigg lane?

That is the crux of the matter. At a time when the Glazers aredesperate to maximise rvenue streams they know that by doing so they risk sending more alienated supporters to the other side.

The Glazers obviously thought the battle was over, but it continues. Not only can the rebels raise a glass to their success on the pitch, they can also toast the fact that they hac=ve bloodied the nose of the United establishment.

Therse no longer only one United"

Let me tell you something.

For every idiot that left for pastures new with FC, there will be another 10 sheep to take their place.

OT will be full next season, and the season after that, and the season after that, etc, etc.

Malcom and Stretford couldn't give a shit. They ain't bothered. Honest!

Very good questions bob, did you think all that up for yourself?

You should really be concentrating on the sale of LFC whether there is a suitable buyer or not.

Because if one don't come with a wad soon, you don't get no new stadium.

difference is, we're looking for an investor not a buyer.

but anyway, i didn't post in here looking for a liverpool vs manu argument (the last footballing result between the two of us settled that argument just fine as far as i'm concerned). as 2 of the world's biggest clubs we have common problems with the "brand" bringing in glory-hunting fans and the spectre of increasing ticket prices, but as it stands it's potentially a bigger problem for your lot than us, given that the glazers' interest appers to be somewhat more business related than sporting. i have my opinions about manu which needn't be aired in this forum but i also have genuine sympathy for some of you supporters (and i make a distinction between "fans" and "supporters") who've been there through thick & thin only for big business to pull the carpet out from under your feet. what i AM interested in is the viewpoint of genuine supporters on how you feel about the success that going plc helped to achieve compared to the quandary that being plc has put you into now ie. no longer plc but owned by a man of questionable motives. i suppose what i'm really saying is "was it worth it?" short term gain for long term pain maybe?

let me reiterate that i don't want this to descend into an argument; my support for liverpool is incedental as far as this thread is concerned, i'm interested only in your opinions of what's going on at old trafford ([open grudging remark]nice ground btw, it's becoming pretty fucking impressive[close grudging remark])

Let me tell you something.

For every idiot that left for pastures new with FC, there will be another 10 sheep to take their place.

OT will be full next season, and the season after that, and the season after that, etc, etc.

Malcom and Stretford couldn't give a shit. They ain't bothered. Honest!

Please see previous posts, they are bothered.........


As for the "loyal" sheep replacing those people who have left, this isnt a constant tap. What people have done at FC is to carry out what they promised. The budget for the club was to see 1,000 supporters come over and support the club morally and financially. We've blown our boards predictions away, and we will continue to do so.

Meanwhile my old season ticket has gone up from 420 quid to 560 (Ive torched the letter so figures are from memory). How much more can people take? One person, my dad, will jack it in at the end of this season, after attending games since the late 60s, and I expect a couple of hundred to follow, my dad has nothing to do with FC, he's just had enough of being ripped off. FC is here to make sure these people stay with United, and not spend their Saturdays shopping at B&Q. These supporters are good people, they should not be so disenfranchised that they leave United altogether, thats what FC is about, carrying on the traditions aways from the exploitation of the Glazers.

And guess what? These "disloyal" desserters will be replaced, but who with? And will these people be there for Wigan V united next season, or perhaps that game against Reading, or maybe those early mickey mouse FA cup ties, or that game against a small european team.

75,000 seats to fill, a huge wod to pay off, and without the franchise knowing/caring, the tap is slowly turning itself off.......just watch.

420 quid to 560

I applied for some seats in the quadrant and they were quoting me anywhere between £1,850 to over £200,000.....! I reckon you got off lightly....

I applied for some seats in the quadrant and they were quoting me anywhere between £1,850 to over £200,000.....! I reckon you got off lightly....
Those are the boxes and executive seats. Normal seats are not £1,850, my dad has got his season ticket letter and its about £650 for the new quads. I was reading it and it says where new season tickets are and they are basicly all around the whole ground. So if you apply via One United and then get a form I recon your'll be able to apply for where ever you want to sit and have a chance of getting it. Down at the front behind the goals those seats are all now season tickets, there about £430 I think(which isnt bad but its a shit view).

Those are the boxes and executive seats. Normal seats are not £1,850, my dad has got his season ticket letter and its about £650 for the new quads. I was reading it and it says where new season tickets are and they are basicly all around the whole ground. So if you apply via One United and then get a form I recon your'll be able to apply for where ever you want to sit and have a chance of getting it. Down at the front behind the goals those seats are all now season tickets, there about £430 I think(which isnt bad but its a shit view).

Yes, I registered on Quadrant for coporate seats ... thats what they quoted me. So can you still buy single seats for about £500 then?

Yes, I registered on Quadrant for coporate seats ... thats what they quoted me. So can you still buy single seats for about £500 then?
Ye buts its gona be very hard getting them.

Please see previous posts, they are bothered.........


As for the "loyal" sheep replacing those people who have left, this isnt a constant tap. What people have done at FC is to carry out what they promised. The budget for the club was to see 1,000 supporters come over and support the club morally and financially. We've blown our boards predictions away, and we will continue to do so.

Meanwhile my old season ticket has gone up from 420 quid to 560 (Ive torched the letter so figures are from memory). How much more can people take? One person, my dad, will jack it in at the end of this season, after attending games since the late 60s, and I expect a couple of hundred to follow, my dad has nothing to do with FC, he's just had enough of being ripped off. FC is here to make sure these people stay with United, and not spend their Saturdays shopping at B&Q. These supporters are good people, they should not be so disenfranchised that they leave United altogether, thats what FC is about, carrying on the traditions aways from the exploitation of the Glazers.

And guess what? These "disloyal" desserters will be replaced, but who with? And will these people be there for Wigan V united next season, or perhaps that game against Reading, or maybe those early mickey mouse FA cup ties, or that game against a small european team.

75,000 seats to fill, a huge wod to pay off, and without the franchise knowing/caring, the tap is slowly turning itself off.......just watch.

What makes a loyal fan?
At what stage are you `allowed' to acquire a season ticket and not be a glory hunter? Says who? If you turn up you are a loyal fan. If you walk away, you are not a loyal fan.

Don't say you are skint?

Given up your SKY subscription?
Given up your mobile phone?
Not taken a 2 holidays this year?

MOST of the fans leaving UTD are not skint or disenfranchised they are on a crusade and are too big headed to back down now that they have asked the troops to come with them and UTD are still getting 67,000 every match.

Last August, these fans said the ground would not be full, they were wrong then and will be wrong again next season.

Cup games empty, always have been...at no stage from 1980-1996 did Utd get a 60,000 gate for a home cup match...the ground is now huge so of course these games won't be a sell out..does not mean the end of the club.

Given up a luxury to watch Utd, you betcha, ergo loyal fan.
Watching FC utd (still costs money!) = not a loyal Utd fan.

Bleat all you like but your `loyalty' was tested and failed. A new fan , who in your opinion is somehow abhorant, has taken your place and will hopefully remain loyal for the rest of thier lives. Unlike some unloyal fans.

It's nowt to do with money.

2 car household?
2 mobiles?
Obviously got broadband?

It's not the money its just fundamentalism of football. A crusade?

Good luck to you all but I am watching UTD and ALWAYS will. It's a honour and great fun (most of the time)

Stand up if you support the team (as the chant is this year)

Stand up if you support the team (as the chant is this year)

There was a similar chant last season too, "Stand up if your not for Sale", some people meant it.

Fucking hell - forget it.

This is what annoys me most about Glazer at the moment, the way he has turned red against red.

We all had a decision to make last summer, some of us still go, some stopped going, can we not accept we've made different decisions for different reasons.

Remember, at heart we're all red's, and hopefully we'll all, one day, have the oppurtunity to follow the same side without the hatred that Glazer has bought to the club.

It's nowt to do with money.

2 car household?
2 mobiles?
Obviously got broadband?

It's not the money its just fundamentalism of football. A crusade?



Ever been to Pendleton or Ordsall, United through and through places, do you reckon they can go OT.

What makes a loyal fan?


Judging by your post, people with money

Plain and simple

Fucking hell - forget it.

This is what annoys me most about Glazer at the moment, the way he has turned red against red.

We all had a decision to make last summer, some of us still go, some stopped going, can we not accept we've made different decisions for different reasons.

Remember, at heart we're all red's, and hopefully we'll all, one day, have the oppurtunity to follow the same side without the hatred that Glazer has bought to the club.

Your spot on, but it is one way traffic. For example, outside Gigg Lane this Saturday, Red Issue and United we Stand will be sold on the streets outside the ground.

Do you reckon Under The Boardwalk (The FC Fanzine), could be sold on the forecourt outside the megastore? I very much doubt it.

And at Gigg Lane we will chant the 2 Uniteds Song, yet people like the Fly will be chanting something very different. Sounds to me like some people are revelling in this turbalent time. Makes you wonder what their agenda is. There are some good people at OT, yet they're drowned out by apparent super reds, who want to create disharmeny between supporters, these people can go fuck themselves.

Ever been to Pendleton or Ordsall, United through and through places, do you reckon they can go OT.

The point is I would sacrifice all of the above luxury's before I stop supporting UTD.

What have you given up before jumping ship.

The reason, as with most is unlikely to be money.

It is a politcal point by the FC boys, fair enough but don't say you are skint... compared with 15 years ago most fans have mobiles and at least one foreign holiday a year...give those up and you can afford UTD.

Have you stopped driving your car recently? Costs me £50 a go...still drive everywhere..no choice...same with UTD I'm afraid!

Not having a go it's just affordability is relative..not all Utd fans are from Pendleton and are/were skint... maybe it's more to do with how crap the team is the last few years....Glazer is the excuse?

Grand - my post was not aimed at anyone in particular - I have friends and family that go to FC.

I personally chose to stay with 'Big United'.

Before anyone on here posts anti-FC or anti-'Big United' please please remember we're all reds, it's cITEH, Leeds, Scousers and cockneys we hate, not other reds that we've sat in the same stands with for years and years.

The point is I would sacrifice all of the above luxury's before I stop supporting UTD.

What have you given up before jumping ship.

The reason, as with most is unlikely to be money.

It is a politcal point by the FC boys, fair enough but don't say you are skint... compared with 15 years ago most fans have mobiles and at least one foreign holiday a year...give those up and you can afford UTD.

Have you stopped driving your car recently? Costs me £50 a go...still drive everywhere..no choice...same with UTD I'm afraid!

Not having a go it's just affordability is relative..not all Utd fans are from Pendleton and are/were skint... maybe it's more to do with how crap the team is the last few years....Glazer is the excuse?

I never said that my finances were the reason for giving my ticket up, more the fact that I made a a stand against Glazer and didnt want my club saddled with debt. I lost this fight so walked away, thank god for FC otherwise I wouldnt even be interested in going to football anymore

As for the rest of your tripe, congratulations on being in a position to afford a ticket. Im pleased for you really I am, What a model of economics you are.

Tell me something, when a 9 year old Salford lad wants to go to United, firstly what does he need to buy a ticket other then money, and secondly, how the fuck can he go. Then tell me, in 20 years time, is this grown up 9 year old lad going to have a strong affiliation to manchester United.

Your opinions and stance are so short term its like you've been listening too much to good old Uncle Malc.

And yes, I left because we werent successful, thats why Im supporting a team 9 divisions below United

Grand - my post was not aimed at anyone in particular - I have friends and family that go to FC.

I personally chose to stay with 'Big United'.

Before anyone on here posts anti-FC or anti-'Big United' please please remember we're all reds, it's cITEH, Leeds, Scousers and cockneys we hate, not other reds that we've sat in the same stands with for years and years.


Your more then spot on

So, 76,000 fans attend and kids are not getting in?
How big would you like the stadium and how many kids should be allowed in?

Arsenal are £300m in debt, have they stopped watching?
Real Madrid were/still are £200m in debt, are they still watching.
Barcelona were/are £100m in debt
Inter Milan
Lazio

It's not ideal but it is not the end of the world, unless you imagine it to be.

If your debt is 5 times your income, it's called a mortgage.
If your debt is 5 times your income, you leave your home and rent elsewhere..FC utd...

it's all an hysterical over reaction which 67,000 people this season find annoying but part of life....

So, 76,000 fans attend and kids are not getting in?
How big would you like the stadium and how many kids should be allowed in?

Arsenal are £300m in debt, have they stopped watching?
Real Madrid were/still are £200m in debt, are they still watching.
Barcelona were/are £100m in debt
Inter Milan
Lazio

It's not ideal but it is not the end of the world, unless you imagine it to be.

If your debt is 5 times your income, it's called a mortgage.
If your debt is 5 times your income, you leave your home and rent elsewhere..FC utd...

it's all an hysterical over reaction which 67,000 people this season find annoying but part of life....

Oh dear, I think that says it all

Oh dear, I think that says it all

Probably does.

Why would you disagree?

UTD turnover next season will be c£20m up on this year.
12% growth is very good for a mature business.

Give it 3 years and turnover would be c£220m with profits of c£80-£90m a season.

If you had access to finance as the Glazer's did, would you not have bought Utd?

If it goes pear shaped they can sell their stake, they may get the £800million back or maybe £600million or maybe £900million.

That is why we chat on forums and the Glazers own 2 sports teams.

He may look like a gimp and be a yank but are we saying he is thick and knows nothing about finance?

He predicted us lemmings would turn up this year and we did! Most of the statements about Utd from MUSA and the like have been shown to be scaremongering and so far wide of the mark?

Probably does.

Why would you disagree?

UTD turnover next season will be c£20m up on this year.
12% growth is very good for a mature business.

Give it 3 years and turnover would be c£220m with profits of c£80-£90m a season.

If you had access to finance as the Glazer's did, would you not have bought Utd?

If it goes pear shaped they can sell their stake, they may get the £800million back or maybe £600million or maybe £900million.

That is why we chat on forums and the Glazers own 2 sports teams.

He may look like a gimp and be a yank but are we saying he is thick and knows nothing about finance?

He predicted us lemmings would turn up this year and we did! Most of the statements about Utd from MUSA and the like have been shown to be scaremongering and so far wide of the mark?


IMUSA said that ticket prices would increase massively. Two years running they have been proved right. Was that scaremongering?

The 'increased turnover' you are so proud of is the direct result of ticket price rises. Both merchandising and media revenues are falling. The increase in the sponsorship deal is peanuts compared to the profit targets he has to hit.

Let me get this right. You are PROUD that United are increasing ticket prices at six times the rate of inflation to allow them to make more profits so that the already incredibly rich Glazer family can make a profit on their investment?

Marvellous!! I guess I'll just stop buying my kids clothes, holidays etc so that we can all go and watch United instead and make Uncle Malc his next £200 million.

How utterly clueless can you get.

`clueless'?

The new regime has come in on the back of repeated ticket price rises for the last 15 years. I am pointing out the rises are a continuation and not a function of the take-over. Public facts.

Clothes? `clueless' in your terms, did I say do not buy clothes? I said TWO foreign holidays, TWO mobile phones, TWO cars...luxury in our modern pampered world.. I would sacrifice these luxury's for a season ticket.

Loyal.

Not clueless.

Uncle Malc will be proud of the fans' loyalty, of their sacrificing 'luxuries' such as cars and phones (if you have ever had kids you will know that having two mobiles and two cars is far from a 'luxury'), so that he can buy another 'essential' mansion in Florida, or so that John O'Shea can buy himself a new 'essential' Aston Martin.

Your 'loyalty' is to the club, its fanbase and it ethos, as is mine. Your responsibility for paying off Glazer's debts and keeping the players millionaires is a different matter.

But if it makes you happy, so be it. I'm not going to turn this thread into a pointless onrunning argument about who's the biggest red.

My original point is that those who have chosen to keep going to OT should not be so keen to shout down any discussion of FC United. It smacks of paranoia that now seems to be part of the club itself, judging from the article above. FC United fans are passionate Manchester United fans and always will be. That is a 'public fact'.

Are you supporting the club/team or what it stands for?

There both different.

Qusetion for FC fans.

Who do you support? Manchester United or FC United?

Please don't say both.

Both is the answer. Sorry if it's not what you want to hear.

I will not pay to attend Man Utd home games. If I could afford it (I have two kids under two), and could get hold of tickets, I would go to Man Utd away matches.

I watch all Man United games on TV. I always want them to win.

I watch many FC United games in person. I always want them to win too.

FC United fans see themselves as a disenfranchised part of the Man Utd family, not a seperate entity. Think of Taiwan and China.

Both is the answer. Sorry if it's not what you want to hear.

I will not pay to attend Man Utd home games. If I could afford it (I have two kids under two), and could get hold of tickets, I would go to Man Utd away matches.

I watch all Man United games on TV. I always want them to win.

I watch many FC United games in person. I always want them to win too.

FC United fans see themselves as a disenfranchised part of the Man Utd family, not a separate entity. Think of Taiwan and China.

I understand your point ChorltonRed, unfortunately I still don't agree with you/it.

You can only support one club/team.

Imagine the scenario, FC draw United away in the FA cup.

Where would your loyalties lie?