Granary Wharf Development

Plans to turn Granary Wharf at Leeds Canal Basin into a unique waterside village at the heart of the city incorporating a major new public square, have been submitted to the city council.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/images/2005/04/28/leeds_canal_basin_203_203x152.jpg
Artists impression of the development

Waterside regeneration specialists ISIS are proposing a scheme that encompasses commercial, residential, retail and leisure in one of the city’s best-loved, but sadly under-used quarters.

Bordered by Leeds rail station, Holbeck Village and the waterways of the River Aire and the Leeds / Liverpool Canal, the site, currently used as a car park, has suffered in recent years from lack of use, and failed to maximise its potential as part of the city centre on the waterfront.

The mixed-use scheme on the two and a half acre site comprises three buildings, set within a waterside public environment. A major new public space centred around the historic graving docks extends to around 7,400 square metres or 70% of the total site.

The application proposes three buildings providing 213 apartments in two of the blocks, with the final building providing office space. The existing retail and bar units within the arches will be retained and complemented by a further 32,000 square feet of commercial retail and leisure uses in the ground floor space of the three new buildings, which the developers hope will add vibrancy and activity to the public square and water space.

The scheme will improve connections between Holbeck and the City Centre with the introduction of several new footbridges across the River Aire and the canal.

ISIS has worked closely over the last 18 months with Leeds City Council and other stakeholders to develop the concept with Leeds-based architects Carey Jones. They have devised plans which protects sight-lines of the Italianate Holbeck towers from the railway station.

The historic graving docks will be restored and made the focal point of festivals and family fun days within the main area of public realm. ISIS is targeting high quality independent leisure and retail, rather than national chains, for ground floor occupiers and is working with the existing commercial operators at Granary Wharf to include them into the newly completed scheme.

Nigel Jacques, director of Carey Jones said: "The site provides a major opportunity for Leeds to take forward its regeneration agenda and further demonstrate an innovative approach to the built environment. The masterplan, jointly developed with Leeds City Council, offers the site the potential to become a place to live, work and recreate, all anchored by high quality public space."

The masterplan, jointly developed with Leeds City Council, offers the site the potential to become a place to live, work and recreate, all anchored by high quality public space."

Waterfront sh@gpads, awesome! ;)

This is the full scheme, with a 15 storey nicely finished block at the front which does look very good on the display boards, and two mediocre blocks behind. I would agree that more open space would be better, and the middle block should be integrated into the other two, to create that middle space as a park and public space, perhaps for bands to play etc, which has become a traditional function of Granary Wharf over the years,

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid167/pff15dcbeb0d13da33555fc34e8827243/f43f8b21.jpg

I would probably agree, there does seem to be some open space in between the right and middle building.

It looks awful. It will transform this attractive part of Leeds into a clutered and overly intense area. I echo the complaints concerning the lack of public space and would add the additional critsicm that all three blocks are just plain ugly, with no reference to the history of the area and no attempt to be original. They make even Blue look good, and that's really saying something.

There's going to be an interesting discussion at the next City Centre Plans Panel this week. The revised plans for Granary Wharf are due to be submitted by ISIS with changes outlined below. I quote from the papers to be considered at the meeting:

Site and Surroundings
A 2.54 ha site located to the south of Leeds railway station and situated in the northern part of Holbeck Urban village. Neville Street runs to the east of the site. It is bounded by the railway arches to the north, the River Aire to the east and Leeds Liverpool Canal to the south. Buildings of note within close proximity of the site include Blue, Green Flag Offices and the Hilton hotel. The whole of the site lies within the Canal Wharf Conservation Area. There are a number of listed buildings within this including Leeds/Liverpool Canal Warehouse, river lock and retaining walls, the basin dock and retaining walls, the lock keepers cottage to the west, and two cranes.
The open part of the site is mainly used for surface car parking and there are no significant structures present. The application site also includes a large section of the arches underneath the railway station currently comprising car parking , a vacant nightclub, existing retail and food and drink units, and the former Festival Market which is now closed. The site extends to the southern side of the canal and river to link with the southern side of Victoria Bridge.

The Proposal
The scheme last presented to Members comprised a multi level development in 3 blocks (A, B & C) up to a maximum of height of 15 storeys with a mix of office, leisure & commercial use, an option of 213 or 272 flats, 2 bridges and car parking.

Some of the key issues raised on this scheme at Panel and the workshop included :
1. Proposal creates an impression of overdevelopment of site.
2. Relationship of buildings to public space and the waterfront. Scheme not intimate but rather oppressive.
3. The level of public space on site.
4. Relationship of development to adjoining listed buildings.
5. The quality of the architecture – did not reflect the historical / special character of the site.
6. Lost opportunity to open up the arches and create a special place

The scheme has undergone significant design review to attempt to address these issues, in particular the relationship of building to space and the quality of architecture to reflect the special character of the site. The proposals are currently being redeveloped with a view to submitting revised plans.

In summary the developing changes are as follows :
Building A - Will comprise commercial at ground floor level with 100 residential units above. The general format of Building A remains the same with a step up in height from 4 storey at the southern end up to 14 storey at the northern end adjacent to the railway arches. However, it has undergone significant design/architectural development.

Building B – The building has been redesigned both in use and form. It is now proposed as an hotel use with a smaller footprint than the original office scheme to create an improved relationship to the public space and waterside and open up key views across the site to Holbeck. As opposed to its predecessor, which was part 6 and part 7 storey in height, the revised (hotel) building is now 14 storey in height.

Building C - Building C originally extended to 14 storeys in height comprising ground floor commercial with 113 residential units above in a rectilinear form. The building has been redesigned and now takes the form of a circular tower extending to 22 storeys. This reduces the building footprint, creates a slender building form in terms of key view points across the site and frees up greater public space at site level.

So, in the picture below, Block A is the one on the right and remains broadly the same in outline and function. The others shrink in girth but gain in height. It'll be interesting to see how it will all look.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid167/pff15dcbeb0d13da33555fc34e8827243/f43f8b21.jpg

Building C -The building has been redesigned and now takes the form of a circular tower extending to 22 storeys.

Good to hear the developers are senistive to context of the site and its significance. i've seen the model and plans at the ISIS exhibition room down Granary Wharf and i quite liked them as they were. the site certainly needs something.

http://www.leeds-cityscape.co.uk/photos/09-04-2005/Approach%20by%20Canal.jpg

Walking down there with neutral eyes, the Dark Arches is pretty darn incredible IMO and unique to Leeds. I've always liked its characterful seediness, but maybe it's time to steam-clean the interior and convert some of the car parking spaces.

22 storey residential tower - well I guess that's for the best, a bit taller, and giving much more open space in the so called 'public realm'. Hope they release a few images of the redesign. Does sound fundamentally different though. The hotel idea is quite good, perhaps some sort of boutique operator. Please please please not a Travelodge or Holiday Inn. This site need cache.

The revised formal planning notices are now pinned to various lamposts around and near the site. It confirms the 22 storey tower and hotel use. Will now be very noticeable from the train as I guess it will be about 60m in height.

A visit to Leonardo methinks!

The revised formal planning notices are now pinned to various lamposts around and near the site. It confirms the 22 storey tower and hotel use. Will now be very noticeable from the train as I guess it will be about 60m in height.

A visit to Leonardo methinks!

aha, saw those at the weekend. Would be interesting to see how they've addressed the concerns raised with the first scheme. I wonder how soon ISIS will start with this one if it gets planning. They are doing the ISIS Wharf scheme over in Manchester which looks like one huge development. Perhaps we should ask the car park attendants how long they've got to left to work. Always a winning question in my book.

aha, saw those at the weekend. Would be interesting to see how they've addressed the concerns raised with the first scheme...........

See post 6 above for a summary of earlier concerns and what has been done to address them. The revised proposal came to the City Centre Plans Panel on 10 November last year. Members views on the revised scheme were as follows:

"Application 20/190/05/FU – Multi level development of leisure, hotel, office, commercial and flats with new footbridge(s) and car parking – Granary Wharf, Leeds Canal Basin Ls1Further to minute 16 of the meeting held on 26th May 2005, Members received a further presentation on the proposed development on behalf of the applicants. Plans, photographs, drawings and artist’s impressions were displayed at the meeting. The Civic Architect, Mr Thorp, introduced the application and referred to the workshop arranged for 22 November in Manchester where other examples of waterside development/regeneration projects would be seen for comparative purposes.

Members were informed that the development would consist of 3 buildings all of different shape and form, a layered building which would be adjacent to the riverside and would be for residential use, a straight, robust building which would be the hotel and the cylindrical tower which would be a marker building for the site and be for office/commercial use. As well as the hotel having uses at its base with restaurants and bars opening onto the canal, there would also be a bar on the top floor providing views of the city.

The spaces between the buildings would become public realm and the intention was to develop an animated, well lit safe place, 24 hours a day. Regarding materials for the scheme, these would consist of masonry, metal, timber and different types of glass.

Members agreed that the scheme was an improvement from that presented previously, but raised the following:
• Concerns about the height, scale and massing of the buildings
• pedestrian access needed to be addressed
• that greater emphasis should be place on the area under the arches and that it should not be converted to car parking
• the need for the scheme to provide connectivity to the city
• that there should be minimal car parking on the site, apart from a taxi drop-off points, and for residents on site, the possibility of a car club could be explored

RESOLVED - To note the presentation and the comments now made"

Saw the application notice today (I know, a bit later than everyone else saw it), it is a full application, so if approved, work could theoretically start straight away, that is as soon as the design is complete.

This could be the next high rise to start as they are a proper development company (unlike some I could mention). The guy at the exhibition said they are doing the one at the other end of the Lds-Liv canal in Liverpool in time for the 2008 culture bash and wanted one at this end too, as well as a big development in Manchester.

No news, only some images from Castlefield, Manchester.

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/001ewm/lg/ManCasfdBarca99404.jpg

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/ic0/23.jpg

Planning application going in. Civic trust against this, not sure if I agree.

From Leedstoday.net

Battle for soul of the waterfront

Conservationists fight scheme they say will ruin historic area
By DAVID MARSH municipal reporter
HERITAGE experts and conservationists are fighting plans for a muli-million pound scheme they claim will ruin the historic heart of Leeds's waterfront.
Councillors will tomorrow consider a proposal to build offices, flats, a hotel, bars and restaurants in the Canal Basin, which lies behind the Hilton Hotel and alongside the Dark Arches.
The development, drawn up by Isis Waterfront Regeneration and recommended for approval by council planning officers, includes a 22-storey circular tower and two other blocks up to 14 storeys high.
It also proposes a footbridge across the river, improved pedestrian links from Victoria Bridge and car parking on the former festival market site within the Dark Arches.
But the development site forms part of the Canal Wharf conservation area – Leeds's transport hub during the industrial revolution – and the scheme has run into opposition from Leeds Civic Trust, English Heritage and Friends of the Earth.
Trust director Kevin Grady said: "It is shocking that council officers are recommending approval of such a staggeringly insensitive and inappropriate scheme which, in its physical impact, is directly at odds with all the strategy documents produced by the council for the Canal Basin and the Dark Arches in the last 10 years.
"Totally contrary to planning policy, the planning officers are supporting the erection of one 22-storey residential block and two 14 storey blocks – which will dominate what is the largest south-facing open space on the city centre waterfront."
Mr Grady said in a study commissioned by Yorkshire Forward, the regional development agency, internationally-renowned urban designer Fred Koetter described the Dark Arches as iconic and said it should be used for shops, cafes and galleries.
Mr Grady said: "If this application is approved they will be turned into a hotel and residents' car park." He added: "We feel that the Leeds public will be appalled if planning permission is given for a scheme like this, which treats the city's historic environment in such a cavalier fashion."
Mr Alastair Dickens, regional managing director of Isis, said his company appreciated it was a sensitive site and the area was currently used as no more than a car park.
He said: "The challenge has been to create a viable and sustainable scheme which will attract people to the site for many years to come.
"Some 70 per cent of the area will remain open space but that does put some pressure on the height of the buildings we need to achieve."
david.marsh@ypn.co.uk

Yeah, it will totally ruin the charachter of the car-park that sits there now.

This is what it says on the website:

Leeds Granary Wharf
Location: City centre site adjacent to the Leeds and Liverpool Canal, the River Aire and Leeds Central Railway Station.

Vision: A new public square uniting the city and the waterfront as a vibrant destination for Leeds city centre. 260 apartment homes designed for the widest possible audience, commercial and business opportunities and a first-class community focussed hotel.

Architects: Carey Jones, CZWG and Allies & Morrison

USP: The only vibrant waterside destination in Leeds city centre.

Stages:

Planning to be granted: Spring 2006
Start on site: Autumn 2006
Hotel opens: Christmas 2007
Phase 1 completed: Spring 2008
Phase 2 completed: End 2008
http://www.isis.gb.com/developments/leeds_granary.htm

I quite like it tbh. I don't see whats wrong with it; it's not like the arches are getting demolished. Small arts and craft shops along side eateries can still go there to keep its traditional, cultural feel.

It's one of the best pieces of land available in Leeds, waterside, next to the train station, and bang next to the city centre. What price was paid for the land? It's inevitable that a high density development is to be built here, and I'd much prefer these tall buildings with 70% open space, than an equally dense, but lowrise building that envelops the entire site. The canal and riverside stretches right through Leeds, so there's plenty more land to build smaller, cosier developments, but in a prime site like this, you have to expect tall developments.

Tall buildings here, along with the other tall, or 14 storey + buildings in this area, it should give the whole area a new exciting feel- shoudl be good with BWP just over the river.

Mr Grady said in a study commissioned by Yorkshire Forward, the regional development agency, internationally-renowned urban designer Fred Koetter described the Dark Arches as iconic and said it should be used for shops, cafes and galleries.

Mixed feelings on this, I agree with Koetter up to a point. But the area has never been successful in this regard (if it has ever had the opportunity to succeed?). I've always thought new buildings would be a welcome addition to this aprt of town. But I'm not sure about these Carey Jones blocks. They look a bit too tall for their central position - taller towers on the flanks of the development by all means.

http://www.isis.gb.com/images/developments/granary01.jpg

I've been very impressed recently by Grady's knowledge of Leeds' history and his willingness to pick a fight. But, it's alarming that he doesn't seem to have that much genuine influence over what goes on. For example, the Civic Trust was set up to stop tragedies like the demolition of the old Westminster Bank, and now the council planners want to get rid of Eastgate in its entirety. Is there a sense that they;re just pushing anything through for the skae of profit, without knowing or caring anything for the historical fabric of the city?

Reminds me a bit of Liverpool's Albert Dock- if you look carefully there are some good sized public spaces between the buildings, and the water opens it up- I don't think it is too tall at all.

Reminds me a bit of Liverpool's Albert Dock- if you look carefully there are some good sized public spaces between the buildings, and the water opens it up- I don't think it is too tall at all.

I agree with you on this one Leeds No.1 but perhaps if the buildings were reduced in hight by 1 floor it would be more sympathetic with the area.

Yeah I think I mgiht agree with you there; I'd get rid of those penthouses on top and put a roof garden or something there.

I'd like to see the arches used like di Livio suggests, with open space all the way to the water... Maybe create something like Singapore waterfront with lots of small city centre reasonably priced restaurants/bars with outdoor seating. All mingled with the skyscrapers... This could be the 'sweetener' for planning permission for ONE very tall (and profitable) tower on this important site:
http://matwils.demonweb.co.uk/International/images/Singapore%20-%20Bars.jpg

No news, only some images from Castlefield, Manchester.

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/001ewm/lg/ManCasfdBarca99404.jpg

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/ic0/23.jpg

A little reminder of the site:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/Kesaph/GWharfApr06.jpg

(Actually would be good to get a GreenBank render from this angle)

I think the development would be great but without the middle block, both because it's bland and because the whole development would be much more appealing with the large public open space in the middle centred on the docks, framed by the better designed taller buildings.

(I think I told Isis this at the first public consultation)

I think the development would be great but without the middle block, both because it's bland and because the whole development would be much more appealing with the large public open space in the middle centred on the docks, framed by the better designed taller buildings.

(I think I told Isis this at the first public consultation)

I'd agree with that. As well as extending the basin a bit more in the middle section.

Hey I know..lets build three huge ugly tower blocks on the site? Aw, just remembered that's what they want to do anyway.

Hey I know..lets build three huge ugly tower blocks on the site? Aw, just remembered that's what they want to do anyway.

And it has been approved - see YEP.

Yes, but only just apparently..........

Yes, but only just apparently..........

The vote was 4 to 3. Unfortunately that is good enough.

The vote was 4 to 3. Unfortunately that is good enough.

Its good enough for me. I like the look of this. Its certainly going to bring some much needed life to this site, which has been in a desperate state for years. Civic Trust et al need to get real here; who would buy such a valuable site then give it over for a few Covent Garden style novelties?

Yeah I hope this development gets going soon. I think it could gentrify into quite a classy area; I have a feeling the original craft shops will be driven away to replaced by more VQ style shops. I do support this but hopefully if it happens the craft shops can find equally good locations elsewhere- maybe the arches area can be extended; its not like all the areas under the arches have been developed.

I think this will be good for the area -

From the wharf's view point, at least it's a new development and brings life to the area. That is much better than a derelict car park which blots the surrounding area.

From the local area's point of view it is excellant as it visually links BWP, Blue, Whitehall etc with the station and the rest of city centre.

It would be nice to see a good city centre park here or a very tall building, but what are the chances of a park? It's prime land. Considering there will be some public space I do like this scheme. A feeling of being narrowed into a gap between a tall intimidating building and the water I always think gives places a sense of excitement.

I think this will be good for the area -

From the wharf's view point, at least it's a new development and brings life to the area. That is much better than a derelict car park which blots the surrounding area.

From the local area's point of view it is excellant as it visually links BWP, Blue, Whitehall etc with the station and the rest of city centre.

arrrgh, mixed feelings. Seeing Castlefield, and having been there on a summers day, I really like the use of the arches and the open space in front of them. But then, 3 months of summer is fine, but doesn't help with the rest of the year.

Added to that, the land's worth a packet, ISIS are specialist riverside regeneration developers and whilst there have been big complaints, the revised scheme is rumoured to answer some of the concerns, although I've not seen anything to justify how they've done that.

Undoubtably, it needs something, and soon, tis a blot when arriving at the station - I pray they've not cocked up the revised application - and think that if the circular 20 storey tower is done sensitively, could look really special. That said, the scale does seem out of place for the location.

the emotive nature of the site means someone is always going to be upset - I can't make a decision until I've seen detailed plans. Rob has been - to the first presentation at least - and I'll trust his comments as he's seen it in the flesh.

What are the heights of the 3 blocks?

Views from Blue will disappear...

bonus eh..he he.

bonus eh..he he.
Unfortunately it's one of Blue's redeeming features...won't want to be living in there when this goes up.

views of blue will be lost as well though - even better.

I agree with the views expressed here about Blue - it is a disappointment. Interestingly, the Civic Trust fully approved it and even praised it at the planning stage. Unless in 'the flesh' it is not quite what it seemed then, it may incline one to think that the judgment of the CT is not always to be admired.

views of blue will be lost as well though - even better.

lol. It started off as quite a smart apartment block.


http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/littleneville.jpg


http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/images/littleneville2.jpg

Exactly - that's what pisses me off so much about it. If it were built with decent materials such as salvaged red bricks then I wouldn't have any problems. The old renders promised a taller (18 floors) and higher quality building than the one we have now.

Exactly - that's what pisses me off so much about it. If it were built with decent materials such as salvaged red bricks then I wouldn't have any problems. The old renders promised a taller (18 floors) and higher quality building than the one we have now.

This leads me to ask a general question: can renders and materials change from what has actually been approved by the planning committee ? If so, after all - and it will usually be for the worse - they can't very well be asked to demolish the building !
I seem to remember something like this happening with the Crown Plaza Hotel in Wellington Street when it was built 12 or so years ago after which an architectural journal described it as " a baffling exercise in controlled ugliness". I heard that the brick colour it was supposed to have had when approved was changed to a darker colour when it was actually built. The lighter colour might marginally have improved its appearance.

I believe that any changes have to be passed by the planning commitee.

I believe that any changes have to be passed by the planning commitee.

I am sure you are right. But if the changes are made, what then ? As I said the committee can't really ask the developer to demolish the building. I suppose as it is being built inspections are made at various stages, but I would think only with the issue of safety of the building in mind and not any changes for the worse in the aesthetics. Does anyone with professional knowledge know ?

Further to my last, and regards Blue. It seems from what I have seen of the renders before it was built, and from comments by others, that there is a difference from what was planned and what we are now stuck with. It is certainly not the building which the Civic Trust went out of its way to praise - before it was built !

Look's to me like it was originally meant to be clad in the very same materials the council are now trying hard to discourage,terracotta tiles and grey plastic. :nono:

I looked at the application itself in 2002 and the collection of renderings included matched those of the civic trust website and not what was built. It could've been proper bricks rather than the terracotta tiles - I can't remember. Neither can I remember any ammendment to the application. Usually we're all looking over the planning lists like hawks, so it's a bit odd that something could've sneaked through without anyone noticing. The present website won't stretch that far back, so you'd need to go into the leonardo building to find out if an ammendment was made.

Water travesty!
Actor who plays soap dodgy property dealer blasts plans for canal basin
BY DEBBIE LEIGH
TELEVISION wheeler and dealer tycoon Jimmy King is usually to be found sailing close to the Emmerdale wind trying to cut dodgy property deals.
In real life the actor who plays him, Nick Miles, has very real scruples about the dangers of development and threats to heritage – and blasted a decision to build homes, hotels and offices on one of Leeds's most industrially historic sites.
Mr Miles told the YEP developers were "desecrating our history" with their plans for Leeds Canal Basin.
He was horrifed when he read in the YEP that the city centre plans panel had backed the project. He said: "They are going to brutalise what is an ancient, historical spot. It made me really sad. It's the wrong development, in the wrong place.
Contrasts
"Every time I walk over there at weekends it is full of youngsters with their dads coarse fishing. I think that's a great thing – this will take that facility away.
"The plans get a big thumbs down from me.
"It's not like Leeds is short of brownfield sites."
His attitude contrasts sharply with his Emmerdale character who currently has the other villagers up in arms over his new project – a major housing development.
Last week city planners approved in principle the housing, hotel and office development despite bitter opposition from conservation organisations including Leeds Civic Trust, English Heritage and Friends of the Earth.
The development includes a 14-storey hotel, 22-storey and 14-storey apartment blocks, a footbridge over the River Aire and boat moorings.
Campaigners said Leeds would be missing a chance to create a Covent Garden of the North – a place of entertainment, cafes, galleries and shops.
Mr Miles said he would prefer that to the plans now in place but ideally he thought it should be preserved as "a beauty spot".
Drama
"It could simply be parkland if it just had a place for kids to play and some benches. It's a beautiful place to have a bit of open space in the centre of Leeds.
"With the drama of the Dark Arches next to it, it's a great place to visit."
After joining the Yorkshire soap the actor bought a flat at the award-winning Round Foundry in Holbeck – and said it was a perfect example of how to redevelop an area without losing its heritage.
Kevin Grady, Leeds Civic Trust director, said he was delighted someone with a high profile was prepared to speak out about the plans.
He added: "Everything that anybody can say about their feelings on the proposals will be welcome. I felt sure that if the general public were aware of what was involved they would be horrified."
A model of the canal basin scheme is on show at the Dark Arches until April 21.
debbie.leigh@ypn.co.uk

12 April 2006

I don't think this should be taken any more powerfully jsut because its a celebrity saying it- so what; they're usually thicker than everyone else anyway. In general I agree it should be a park but its city centre location so near to the station and riverside in the heart of the developing business quarter makes it quite clear money is to be made on that site; in other words it will never be a park. But I want this plan to go ahead its better than it staying as it is; a forgotten but important area of the city.

Can somebody explain to me the glorious history of this car park, and explain why it needs saving?

I would have thought it's fairly clear that even though it's currently used as a car park, the canal basin is an extremely historically and architecturally sensitive site befitting of a suitable scheme similar to Castlefields or West India Dock.

Nothing remains of it's history though, at the moment it's just a big slab of tarmac, and anything is an improvement.

Nothing remains of it's history though, at the moment it's just a big slab of tarmac, and anything is an improvement.

Agreed, but when it's developed then that's it, there's no reclaiming the site. Leeds is really lacking a characterful chill out area with trendy waterfront bars, restaurant and boho shops in a historical context. This site is the only such site in Leeds and if we want to be challenging the other big UK cities then it is an opportunity that needs to be taken.

The recent development in Leeds has regenerated the city however we are in danger of having a characterless city centre if such prime sites are not utilised to their full potential.

Yeah but the lower ground floors of these buildings can be filled with restaurants and small shops which can also extend into the dark arches; how would character be lost by building buildings on tarmac? There already is major retention of history in HUV anyway.

Yeah but the lower ground floors of these buildings can be filled with restaurants and small shops which can also extend into the dark arches; how would character be lost by building buildings on tarmac? There already is major retention of history in HUV anyway.

Not the same LN1, if it's too built up then the whole chilled out vibe will be lost. I'm not opposed to high rise development on the site, but it needs to be low density in order for the character to be retained. See the earlier pix of Castlefield and also parts of the Newcastle Quayside for what would be ideal for the site.

Yeah I know what you mean exactly but lets be honest; the site must have an astronomical land value which will only increase and people are gonna want to capitalize on it. So whats the chances of it being what we all would want it ot be in a utopian world?

I can see both points of view, but even if it were changed into a park, is it going to be full of people relaxing etc. We do not have a massive need for loads of green spaces in this manner. 99.9% of people in Leeds live in the suburbs and travel into Leeds for work. There are plenty of places to relax outside of this car park and access to the riverside is improving all the time. I would say that the existing areas need a bit of a clear up and then more people will use it.

It's.............a car park. It's NOT something I'd show a tourist for Christ's sake. Surely that's the barometer you'd measure its worth by? Would a tourist ber impressed by this site? No. Has anyone here, or anyone you know, used this site in the past/regularly for recreational purposes (heroin usage aside). Personally, if I want to relax, carparks tend to be low on the venue of choice list.

It's.............a car park. It's NOT something I'd show a tourist for Christ's sake. Surely that's the barometer you'd measure its worth by? Would a tourist ber impressed by this site? No. Has anyone here, or anyone you know, used this site in the past/regularly for recreational purposes (heroin usage aside). Personally, if I want to relax, carparks tend to be low on the venue of choice list.

This site is a mess and it has been for years. Hardly anyone visits....other than to park their car or to walk through quickly en route to the city centre. Its nonsense to talk fondly about the Covent Garden of the north: where is the developer who is saying he wants to create such a thing? Originally I'd hoped it might be a site for Leeds' answer to Bridgewater Hall in Manchester. But a healthy dose of realism is needed by those "campaigners" who clearly have no sense of what is needed to make something commercially viable.
The plans - now passed and hopefully soon to become real - will provide space at ground floor level which will enable the kind of uses we all want to see. And there will still be plenty of space for lads to fish with their dads...

I don't think this should be taken any more powerfully jsut because its a celebrity saying it- so what; they're usually thicker than everyone else anyway.

lol.

I wonder how many of the objectors to the scheme have actually bothered to go along to the exhibition and see what's been proposed. With the exception of the central block, it's a well-designed scheme, and the cylindrical tower offers a use for the site whilst maintaining a good amount of land around it - it doesn't overwhelm the area.
As it is, the basin feels barren and unattractive.

It's.............a car park. It's NOT something I'd show a tourist for Christ's sake. Surely that's the barometer you'd measure its worth by? Would a tourist ber impressed by this site? No. Has anyone here, or anyone you know, used this site in the past/regularly for recreational purposes (heroin usage aside). Personally, if I want to relax, carparks tend to be low on the venue of choice list.
Umm, I regularly visit and walk through it. Last summer, it was choc full of people sipping a cold lager outside the Home bar a la Smoggie's bo-ho bollix (smog man, youz been in the smoke too long fella). It certainly hasn't been a drug den for many years.

This dev is vital for the success of HUV. Plus, the connection to the train station at one end will ensure many people in future will be in the area, passing through, working here, relaxing whatever.

Trust me, come back in 5 years and enjoy!

lol.

...With the exception of the central block, it's a well-designed scheme...

Central part was way better on a previous version. Should not have changed it. In genereal, ISIS always produce quality developments, just compare this:
http://www.isis.gb.com/developments/brentford.htm
to Brewery Wharf - similar settings, similar look, but nicer, to my taste.

Definitely, once the peoject completed, along with the Dark Archers restorations, it will be popular and trendy place.

I assume this is a new image of the 'unwanted' central block.

It's the first image (in my opinion) that has made it look half decent.

http://www.isis.gb.com/images/developments/granary01.jpg

The ISIS site also has this info on the programme -

Planning to be granted: Spring 2006
Start on site: Autumn 2006
Hotel opens: Christmas 2007
Phase 1 completed: Spring 2008
Phase 2 completed: End 2008

I assume this is a new image of the 'unwanted' central block.

It's the first image (in my opinion) that has made it look half decent.

http://www.isis.gb.com/images/developments/granary01.jpg

The ISIS site also has this info on the programme -

Planning to be granted: Spring 2006
Start on site: Autumn 2006
Hotel opens: Christmas 2007
Phase 1 completed: Spring 2008
Phase 2 completed: End 2008

hmmm, very blocky and seems to sit right on the waters edge. Why do they release strange grainy concept drawings. Why not utilise the skills of someone like Dibbers to give you a lifelike perspective - look at how exciting Clarence Dock looks on the renders, and seems to be turned out! He even made the plastic panels on Whitehall Road look okay on the render!

The trick is attracting a top notch hotel operator. Hilton won't like that, lets hope its not another budget Holiday Inn type thing. Hmm, who'd fit the bill? Something like the MyHotel brand, they have a 'boutique hotel in Portland Square just off Tottenham Court Road would have massive kudos.

Absolutely agree with magic - this site needs something, and soon. Will properly 'connect' the station with BWP / Tower Works and HUV.

The scheme reminds me of a one-armed bandit machine.
Give it another pull and we might get three liberty bells.

Visited an exhibition today. It was well worth it only for 1 poster with the Dark Archers vision. It is cropped on a Web site and brochure, full-size it looks brilliant! If it ever looks like this, and without a Big Issue seller at the entrance, I could live happily ever after.

http://www.holbeckurbanvillage.co.uk/history/images/darkarches_001.jpg

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/2_canal%20basin_sketch_410.jpg



http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_model_410.jpg



Canal Basin, Leeds
Client ISIS Waterside Regeneration
Status Ongoing
Construction cost £40 million

An ambitious vision for Leeds Canal Basin has developed and evolved over time through an interactive workshop approach working directly with officers of Leeds City Council, Yorkshire Forward and other stakeholders. The vision will transform the site, currently used as a car park, into a place which will truly contribute to the vitality of Leeds.

Canal Basin was identified through detailed urban design analysis as a key location for the southern expansion of the city centre. Its proposed development plays a key role in fulfilling the aspirations of the Leeds Urban Renaissance Agenda by introducing a range of landmark buildings set in the context of stunning public waterfront spaces which will link through to the city centre and the wider Holbeck Urban Village. ‘Renaissance Leeds’, a document supported by Leeds City Council states that:

"there is no real sense of the promise of this place and that this magnificent water course running through the city cries out to be an important public destination central to the life and identity of Leeds"

Carey Jones have submitted a 23 storey residential tower as part of the overall application for the trio of buildings and has intentionally been designed with a strong architectural form. Its circular plan is derived as a response to the sites considerable number of curves, evidenced by the radial edge of the basin, sweeping curve of the viaduct, curved sides of the listed bridge, all of which are reinforced by the sweeping movement of people and cars around its edge. The intentionally simple compositional extrusion of this circular plan into a cylinder reinforces the building as a geometric object of solidity. This simple and straightforward massing intentionally creates a robust architecture of permanence.

I actually really like that; the model shows that there will be a substantial amount of public space even if there isn't loads. It will make an exciting entrance by rail into the city.

Good find DiLiv! Think it's a shame to lose the open space near the arches and the water - perhaps could do with losing the middle building....

Its circular plan is derived as a response to the sites considerable number of curves, evidenced by the radial edge of the basin, sweeping curve of the viaduct, curved sides of the listed bridge, all of which are reinforced by the sweeping movement of people and cars around its edge. The intentionally simple compositional extrusion of this circular plan into a cylinder reinforces the building as a geometric object of solidity. This simple and straightforward massing intentionally creates a robust architecture of permanence.
Who writes this nonsense!?!?

Yeah it could do with losing the middle building- but whats the likelihood of that!? And I notice it is an L shape, but the space inside the L is at the back- surely it should be at the front by the water to make the most of it? Basically rotate it so the L becomes a ¬ or somin like that so the back is against the rail lines.

I think the L shape is intended to make a commercial plaza which fronts units underneath the arches.

ook explains alot!

A compromise would be to have the right-end of the middle building on 'stilts' rather than a ground floor, to keep open space for pedestrians from the arches to the waterfront...

I disagree - having a building on stilts segregates it from the surrounding area removing the direct interaction betwen people and the place.
A building that has a strong footprint will work to create a more engaging environment than one that hovers above, casting shadows over the space. I think a building on stilts would deter people from using the space making it a void, almost no go area for users, thus totally defeating its purpose.

Spose so - I was just hoping to retain some form of open space between the arches and the water...
The idea to rotate it would be good - how about a backwards L? _l
Is the tower clad in wood? Would be interesting!

This project will be on site this Autumn, for completion in 2008 ! according to an article about ISIS in this week's Estates Gazette. The article gave a run down of their major schemes, of course including Granary Wharf.

Excellant news if it happens as planned. That'll be another 20+ st tower under construction by the end of the year.

Thats nice- I suppose the council were keen to do something on this site ASAP. By 2008 there should be quite an acknowledged skyline!

http://static.flickr.com/43/82682747_44e0c51239.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/43/82683111_19cf18f4c1.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/43/82684825_1a14ccc813.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/40/82685386_9669d41d2e.jpg?v=0 ..

..

Wow, where did you find those shots????

Interestingly, I saw a planning application notice today to begin the refurbishment of the Dark Arches and Neville Street. It would be great to see an imaginative lighting scheme enhancing the views of the river making its way through the arches.

Wow, where did you find those shots????

No.1's Flickr site.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=leeds

Theres a really good photo of BWP from under the arches- infact theres many good BWP photos- also some good skyline shots and good night shots.

Visited an exhibition today. It was well worth it only for 1 poster with the Dark Archers vision. It is cropped on a Web site and brochure, full-size it looks brilliant! If it ever looks like this, and without a Big Issue seller at the entrance, I could live happily ever after.

http://www.holbeckurbanvillage.co.uk/history/images/darkarches_001.jpg

Me again!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/idenby/darkarches.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/idenby/darkarches.jpg

With the extra footfall engendered by BWP and other schemes in the area it makes sense to transform the Dark Arches into an upmarket retail development that this illustration depicts.

Yeah you have to walk past a helluvalotta 'dark arches' filled with rotting wood doors, car parks and tramps before you get to the three shops still open down there at the moment! I hope they reopen the market though. It seems weird it sat there disused all this time...

With companies like Lilywhites and Ocean failing to make enough profit to pay the rent, even on the Headrow, is there a chance that the comparatively inaccessible Dark Arches could end up with a lot of empty shop units?

Nice rendering btw. Reminds me of the cloisters at Fountains Abbey.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an24393470-v.jpg

With companies like Lilywhites and Ocean failing to make enough profit to pay the rent, even on the Headrow, is there a chance that the comparatively inaccessible Dark Arches could end up with a lot of empty shop units?

For Ocean and Lillywhites they withdrew as part of wider withdrawls as Ocean branches were also in Manchester and Liverpool and Lillywhites at one point had branches in Nottingham, Newcastle and the Lakeside Centre all of which are now closed so I would doubt they withdrew purely because of Leeds and anyway these two chains had failed to compete successfully in the retail market such as by overpricing against the competition and the resultant lack of custom.

As for the Dark Arches surely to make it a success it would need to find a successful niche and also access which is comparatively poor should be improved between the Dark Arches and the Retail core. Also rents should reflect its out of the way location to try encourage more indendpent retailers. It would not surprise me that a high number of Leeds residents had never heard of Granary wharf as a location for shopping when the festival market I believed it was called was opened so promotion of the area is a must to make this a success.

I remember about 10-15 years ago in it's heyday there were loads of independant gothic/oriental/hippy etc shops down there, the market and performers every now and then. They then spent a little money on rennovating it (new lighting etc) but then it mysteriously seemed to all but close. There's only about 4 shops and a restaurant left now...
To be honest though, if I was a visitor to the city, there is no way I would go down there looking for shops!... Maybe when the new station entrance is built they could include access to down there.

so is this project going ahad or not????

I remember about 10-15 years ago in it's heyday there were loads of independant gothic/oriental/hippy etc shops down there, the market and performers every now and then. There's only about 4 shops and a restaurant left now...
To be honest though, if I was a visitor to the city, there is no way I would go down there looking for shops!

Yes, I used to visit the Dark Arches shops a few times a year, not so much for what was on offer, but just becuase it offered something slightly different to the main shopping areas of the city, and had quite a nice "vibe" to it.
I'm not sure how many people driving past the entrance from outside the city would ever notice that there is anything of intrest down there now though, it just looks like a dark, slightly grubby archway.

a welcome use for the area before development


http://www.acrossthetracksfestival.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

a welcome use for the area before development


http://www.acrossthetracksfestival.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

Wow, that's a great line up. I've seen British Sea Power, The Chalets, Yes Boss and The Young Knives live this year and they're all excellent. Bromheads Jacket I'm deserate to see and I've heard very good things about Sh!t Disco.

Might have to make a trip up to Leeds that weekend!

http://www.holbeckurbanvillage.co.uk/news-events/stories/images/GranaryWharfArtImp.jpg

From the ISIS website

Stages:

Planning to be granted: Spring 2006
Start on site: Autumn 2006
Hotel opens: Christmas 2007
Phase 1 completed: Spring 2008
Phase 2 completed: End 2008

I'm starting to get quite interested in this project, could be really good project if done well, combined with a revamp of the dark arches.

Could it end up rivalling Clarence Dock ? (when all units are taken including those in Blue)

Could it end up rivalling Clarence Dock ? (when all units are taken including those in Blue)

It definitely could, and will I think. Maybe even Blue would piggyback on it's success, and get some tenants.

Blue is half empty because no-one wants to live / sleep next to one of the busiest stations in the country with constant announcements. Another example of people will buy anything. I think that this development will also suffer from the same thing. Especially, as they have put the residential element next to the station buildings again. It is a bit like the Green Building in Manchester being next to Oxford Road station.

IMO Blue flats are empty because they are priced as "luxury" apartments, when they "budget" in fact. If anything, I think Granary Wharf may steel some of it's tenants (I am sure there are very few owners-occupiers). What I meant (probably Rob as well) is that empty shop/restaurants units should be taken to serve Granary Wharf/HUV.

When we say Blue is half empty - is there still apartments the developers haven't sold? Or have they all been sold for buy-to-let and failed to be let?

Anyone think 'Mill Hill' will see some investment, as an obvious link between the shopping quarter and a revitalised Granary Wharf (and hopefully Criterion)?...

I agree Blue has been quite a disapointment architecturally however surely they would have sufficent sound insulation to prevent residents hear the tannoy say 'Cycling, skateboarding and rollerblading within this station building is prohibited' amongst other announcements every five minutes must be seriously annoying and akin to torture. Blue is featured on the titles to BBC Look North. Mind you with the construction of Granary Wharf Blue should be more hidden from view from most angles however it would be a major concern if Blue was to be predominately unoccupied but surely if priced right and as this end of town improves then the occupancy will surely improve in the future. Also does anyone think Blues yellow cladding reminds me of the infamous yellow tiles of the Arndale Centre in Manchester?

http://www.leeds-cityscape.co.uk/photos/09-04-2005/Blue2.jpg

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/001ewm/lg/man_cc_arndaleview.jpg

I agree Blue has been quite a disapointment architecturally however surely they would have sufficent sound insulation to prevent residents hear the tannoy say 'Cycling, skateboarding and rollerblading within this station building is prohibited' amongst other announcements every five minutes must be seriously annoying and akin to torture. Blue is featured on the titles to BBC Look North. Mind you with the construction of Granary Wharf Blue should be more hidden from view from most angles however it would be a major concern if Blue was to be predominately unoccupied but surely if priced right and as this end of town improves then the occupancy will surely improve in the future. Also does anyone think Blues yellow cladding reminds me of the infamous yellow tiles of the Arndale Centre in Manchester?

Hasn't the Hilton Hotel been plagued by these station announcements all these years ? I have heard no complaints about it. Perhaps Blue may have to end up as a hotel !

There's a bulldozer and a couple of small drilling rigs from Norwest Holst soil exploration unit working at the western end of the site, roughly on the spot where Carey Jones' circular residential towers is due to stand.

Interesting and good news.

As this is an ISIS project, I have every expectation it will progress on schedule (unlike almost every other major project in Leeds).

I'm sure this will be the next tall (20+) tower to start in Leeds, unles Mayfair gets going but little sign of that at the moment, if Mayfair hasn't started soon I will suspect yet another delay in that project.

just a reminder to wet your apetites -

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_model_410.jpg

Interesting and good news.

As this is an ISIS project, I have every expectation it will progress on schedule (unlike almost every other major project in Leeds).

I'm sure this will be the next tall (20+) tower to start in Leeds, unles Mayfair gets going but little sign of that at the moment, if Mayfair hasn't started soon I will suspect yet another delay in that project.

just a reminder to wet your apetites -

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_model_410.jpg

The circular building certainly does wet the appetite but the other two buildings leave much to be desired i'm afraid.

I have to agree all three buildings are quite unremarkable by their shape. The most crucial point will be the cladding, if they use high quality materials it might just save the day. If cheap tiles... better not to think about it.

Rob, I understand you were present at the planning meeting, did they present the cladding samples?

Interesting and good news.

As this is an ISIS project, I have every expectation it will progress on schedule (unlike almost every other major project in Leeds).

I'm sure this will be the next tall (20+) tower to start in Leeds, unles Mayfair gets going but little sign of that at the moment, if Mayfair hasn't started soon I will suspect yet another delay in that project.

just a reminder to wet your apetites -

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_model_410.jpg

thanks for the update chaps. I agree, ISIS are funded by Morley Asset Management who are a part of Aviva Insurance - one of the biggest in the UK. I have no doubt they will get cracking on with this sharpish.

That model hasn't assuaged my fears I'm afraid. The circular tower looks a little like the Spiracle, and the stepped block on the right will block out Blue and looks kind of interesting, but by god what is that turgid mess in the middle. Not optimistic on that one.

Hmm, I really like the round tower and think it will actually complement the Tower Works towers nicely. The right hand looks to have potential and as Jimbo points out will block out view.

However the middle building looks like one of my favourite Whitehall Road Carey Jones monstrosities, I await the news that it is terracotta clad! It also gives the feel of overdeveloping the site which doesn't look to have the level of public space that was promised.

Obviously ISIS need to get their yield and so I feel that a better option would be to increase the height of the circular tower and the rear sections of the right building and replace the middle one with a lower rise building or at least one with a far smaller footprint. Et voila more public realm space and a less over developed feel.

What think ye Ladies and Gentlemen?

The blue to me is an architect trying to make a bland building catch your eye. It seems to be the bain of modern developments across the country to liven up a design with the misuse of colour that really doesn't suit the colour range of the sky in the UK. A better material would of been a tone that suited the garish 'yellow' cladding in a maybe bronze colour? or even a monotone pattern?.

-----

New images from ISIS Web site, have not seen them before:

http://www.isis.gb.com/UserFiles/Image/Leeds%20Granary%20Wharf/11844_GRAN_WHARF_BLK_C_01.jpg

http://www.isis.gb.com/UserFiles/Image/Leeds%20Granary%20Wharf/11844_GRAN_WHARF_BLK_A_01.jpg

It's really hard to say if it will block the view, or will need to be blocked.

Do CJ have a monopoly in Leeds, why they have to design just about everything? I think a healthy competition would wake them up. Or a couple of denied applications. They are having a bit of a lough now.

[QUOTE=JOliver]http://www.isis.gb.com/UserFiles/Image/Leeds%20Granary%20Wharf/11844_GRAN_WHARF_BLK_A_01.jpg

I fear the stepped block may be built entirely from the cheapo cement render that adorns Clarence House, creating another ludicrous monstrosity that makes one frankly ashamed to be from Leeds.

Mention of Carey Jones reminds me, nearby City House was in fact designed by the notoriously corrupt architect John Poulson.

[QUOTE=JOliver]http://www.isis.gb.com/UserFiles/Image/Leeds%20Granary%20Wharf/11844_GRAN_WHARF_BLK_A_01.jpg

I fear the stepped block may be built entirely from the cheapo cement render that adorns Clarence House, creating another ludicrous monstrosity that makes one frankly ashamed to be from Leeds.

Mention of Carey Jones reminds me, nearby City House was in fact designed by the notoriously corrupt architect John Poulson.

I thought Clarence House was going to be done with cladding like No1 City Square?

The stepped block isn't carey jones is it? I thought it was CZWG. I thought the middle block was Carey Jones doing.

Also I've seen a render of Clarence house on a property website which shows a metallic cladding like BWP.

The stepped building is indeed by CZW, the central block is by Allies and Morrison, and the circular tower is Carey Jones. As for the palette of materials:

"Regarding materials for the scheme, these would consist of masonry, metal, timber and different types of glass." (from the presentation to the City centre Plans Panel last autumn)

Instead of doing what i should have done today, I have lost my architectural virginity and redesigned the middle block!

I'm not an architect (obviously) just very bored (the illegal regal I smoked helped inspire me). I know it's crap but it was a laugh to do.

The people in the block on the right now have an unhindered view. The new building is meant to be slightly curved with the bottom bit having arches built in for specialist retail units.

The building is supposed to represent half a railway arch, given the location, and it's meant to be clad in a nice blue to represent the canal.

The golden "rods" which appear to support the arch indicate the destination of the canal, Rodley!

Seriously, it was fun. Move over Sir Norman Foster.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g127/willholian/5_canalbasin_model_4103.jpg

More and bigger windows are needed in the circular building! Now i come to mention it... a lot of the developments, past and present in Leeds have a distinct lack of glass! The need for this is especially important in developments using poor cladding materials

^ Good point there about the glass, Leeds John. I find that too many of the high-rise buildings of the past era look rather monolithic and dull, partly because of the choice of surface used. Glass often (but not always) adds a certain elegance and lightness to a project by reflecting the surrounding buildings and the sky. Metal can also have this effect.

I expect Gordon Carey will offer Mistertee a job within hours.

I know the stepped block isn't CJ. My concern about the cladding is based on one of the other 'houses' in the CDock development, the one below

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/news/clarence%20dock_275.jpg


Didn't know the middle block was Allies and Morrison. doesn't bode well for Monksbridge Forge does it? A pity because Aedas and Make were involved at one point

I went to one of the restaurants behind the Mailbox a few weeks ago and was thinking Leeds should have its equivalent waterside village. While not a total catastrophe, I feel the ISIS development is a bit of a wasted opportunity (like most developments in Leeds)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/birmingham/your_birmingham/walk_through_time/images/photos/mailbox_canal_203x152.jpg

You clearly have nothing positive to say about Leeds.. Why is that?

You clearly have nothing positive to say about Leeds.. Why is that?

I think you're being quite unjust to di Livio. He(?) always has something interesting to say even if it isn't entirely uncritical of what's happening in the city. The point di Livio makes about the Leeds waterfront is a very good one though and is endorsed by the Civic Trust among others. There are at least three waterside developments that included restaurants in their plans, and which featured prominently in the renders presented to the public. However, in all three cases, what we have in place of the restaurants proposed is offices. Now, I find that strange in a city like Leeds where new restaurants are opening almost weekly. Are we really saying that no restaurateur wants to open on a waterfront site with all the opportunity that entails?

And before anyone talks about footfall and technical stuff like that, we should remember that there are some very fine eateries in the most unprepossessing places. Anthony's and Room manage to flourish on Boar Lane which would not be the first destination of most gastronomes. Hansa on North Street has been doing good business for years, long before the Northern Quarter was invented.

On the subject of restaurants, by the way, I went to Loch Fyne in City Square on Tuesday and the food was lovely. Good, fresh fish and seafood nicely cooked (ie simply!) and not expensive for what it was. It was also surprisingly big for what looks like a rather cramped corner site from the outside. Bit like the Tardis, I suppose.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/2341GranaryWharfResidentialBuilding_pic2.jpg

Original image of resdential block A

http://www.isis.gb.com/UserFiles/Image/Leeds%20Granary%20Wharf/11844_GRAN_WHARF_BLK_A_01.jpg

Latest image of residential block A

I really like this block, have done since it was presented in the original scheme. I haven't seen the finishes so don't know what quality they are, but I like the overall appearance. It seems to have changed shade, but I like the new warm tones, different from most of what is going up now.

We are all agreed the middle building is the weak point of the scheme. It is the one that overdevelops the site and eats up the middle ground public space. Mistertee is quite right with his design concept, it should be tall and slender, hence leaving much more precious space. But, then there is money to consider ... back down to earth ...

Larger night view, from CJ site

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/7_canal%20basin_image_400.jpg

interesting shape but I don't like the brown. is there any way of making them change their minds? chocolates? begging, organising a demo?

You clearly have nothing positive to say about Leeds.. Why is that?

WTF? Constructive criticism mean anything to you? :bash:

You clearly have very little sensible to say, who can forget your thought provoking and intelligent thread entitled 'Why not carpet bomb Bradford' ?

He(?)

;)

Perhaps I've been a bit hasty in condemning the ISIS plan. I'd just like to see it develop into a vibrant, public place, a destination rather than a load of apartments with a few shops attached. But that could still happen given time, here and at Clarence Dock.

Larger night view, from CJ site

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/7_canal%20basin_image_400.jpg
its just hit me what this reminds me of - those flats overlooking the centre of Sheffield - Park Hill is it? Urg. I know its a different shape and all that but its just the colour oand the windows and the way they interact.

You clearly have nothing positive to say about Leeds.. Why is that?

You don't get it. It's because we like Leeds we criticise it. It's a complicated emotion.

I went to one of the restaurants behind the Mailbox a few weeks ago and was thinking Leeds should have its equivalent waterside village. While not a total catastrophe, I feel the ISIS development is a bit of a wasted opportunity (like most developments in Leeds)


I would agree. That whole canalside area would have been ideal for some radical proposals. A few years ago I had an idea for the section near the station, where BWP and all those boring low-rise clones are now. It was vaguely similar in some ways to the later Alsop proposals for Bradford City Centre, except that the lake would be a proper residential marina and, to compensate for the loss of land due to the body of water, you would then build high next to it.

One of the problems that I noticed with Leeds City Centre at the time was that it did tend to feel a bit claustrophobic in places, especially when emerging from the station (of course now you can also get out at City Square). In order to appreciate tall buildings properly, you need plenty of space somewhere near them. Building a lake/marina and then a couple of really high iconic towers would create a feeling of distance and height - what I sometimes call the 'Loch Lomond Effect'.

Bit of a pompous name but you understand what I mean. Skyscrapers look great next to flat expanses of water (Manhattan, Miami, etc.).

Of course, we all have these big ideas but most of us never know anyone who could implement them!

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_sketch_410.jpg

I think we can appreciate all these better ideas and more ideal ways of doing things, but at the end of the day it's all down to money. Developers generally have very little margin and can really only afford fairly basic designs and have to make every square foot possible commercially viable.

On the list of expensive luxuries are fancy cladding, building much taller than necesary to leave more space, and retail units that are not really going to sell as they are a bit out of the way. These things are probably not viable with most developments. Reasons are varied, but you have to realise that as with everything, this is one of the most expensive countries in the world to build in, on top of that steel prices have shot up in recent years, and government regulations have tightened up and dreaming up new regulations all the time making construction projects more and more expensive (mostly paperwork operations like all the H&S and CDM regulations which easily double the office based personnel and add site personnel requirements on big projects like these).

I wouldn't knock Carey Jones, most of you haven't a clue about the amount of work architectural companies like this have to do. Designing a large building project isn't just drawing a rectangle and picking your finish out the Terecotta catalogue. They are limited by financial and client constraints, and the work behind the scenes they have to do to get everything to work together and pull all the engineering trades together is phenominal, there will be thousands of engineering drawings and documents to prepare and negotiate to conclusion and all to a tight timescale and financial restraints.

Not many companies are capable of taking on this level of work on a number massive of projects simultaneously, Carey Jones are very experienced now in this kind of work, and are a great asset to Leeds.

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/6_canal%20basin_image_410.jpg

Another discussion in a series – Carey Jones, saint or evil :) Once they've been branded a local hero. Maybe one day they'll be called a local Dirty Harry?

Not long ago someone made a very good summary of their good, bad and ugly jobs – no point repeating it. Obviously they know better how to run their business, but there is one tendency I noticed. If someone need to do a dirty job to make a few quid, who do they call? Correct, CJ. They'll do whatever they're asked (no judging whatsoever, we all have to make a living), any ugly-looking office or hotel. No offence, but a respected agency should not put its name on anything like this:

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_hot_lrg/8_hotel,%20thorpe%20park_410.jpg

or

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_res_lrg/3_east%20bank_410.jpg

They are indeed nothing but rectangles in bad finish. Even Dibbers could not polish them :)

On the other hand, if you need a nice-looking development that would sell for a premium, would you come to CJ? Not likely. If you position yourself low, you will end up low, no matter how good you are. A good example is KW Linfoot. They needed to turn an ugly building into something they can sell (no more), and CJ delivered it for them (West Point). But for the upmarket projects they hired Aedas and Ian Simpson.

Speaking about Architecture job in general, yes it ain't easy. But what job is? And yes it is expensive to build. But it's hardly much more expensive to build a nice building, than an ugly one. And as someone who cares about Leeds, I'd wish to see more of nice ones. After all, someone posted that rents on Leeds are higher than in NY! Doesn't it alone command a design premium?

I quite like those buildings =/ Simple and uniform. I like CJ- its just they need to explore new designs and ideas- as does Ian Simpson- I don't want to see every Simpson tower in the same glass pattern.

Went past this avvie. Piling work on the circular tower is under way! At least I think they call it piling...vertical drills making deep holes...if they plan to erect the entire scheme simultaneously the whole place will be crawling with cranes soon.

Are they setting up the foundations or are they just testing the ground?

Well whatever it is, its progress isn't it! Quite exciting; if its true, it will mean Clarence House, Bridgewater Place and this under construction at the simultaneously, and possibly The Plaza and Lumiere joining the construction club!

Went and had a nosey round there on Saturday (as they seem to have finished and have gone now). They have done two test drillings, one on either side of the tall circular tower. The two areas were still fenced off with steel tubing and a couple of contaminated water tanks still left around inside.

Not exactly started yet, but a clear sign that things are heading the right way and still looking on schedule. This will be assisting detailed design of the foundation piles, so a start on site could be only months away.

Went and had a nosey round there on Saturday (as they seem to have finished and have gone now). They have done two test drillings, one on either side of the tall circular tower. The two areas were still fenced off with steel tubing and a couple of contaminated water tanks still left around inside.

Not exactly started yet, but a clear sign that things are heading the right way and still looking on schedule. This will be assisting detailed design of the foundation piles, so a start on site could be only months away.

City Inn plans first overseas hotel in £330m expansion
By Dominic Walsh

CITY INN, a private hotel developer and operator backed by Bank of Scotland, is planning a £330 million expansion programme over the next four years that will see the chain make its first foray overseas, The Times has learnt...........

It is also developing a 284-room property in Manchester, due to open next year near Piccadilly Station, while in Leeds it has secured planning consent to build a 333-room hotel on a canalside site close to the city’s main railway station.

From the Times today: Times Online Article City Inns (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9064-2301910,00.html)

came across this by accident, but it seems that City Inn could be operator lined up for Granary Wharf. I could be wrong, but the canalside location close to the station is a dead ringers for Canal Basin. Sadly not the top end operator I was hoping for, but more concrete news that the scheme is getting going.

It will probably be one of the biggest hotels in Leeds, 333 rooms in a 14 storey hotel building. I don't know anything about City Inn hotels, not one of the budget names you hear around. Good find by the way.

well a little more:

go to the news section on the Allies and Morrison website, and click on the 10th story - confirmation of planning permission being granted for the hotel element of the Canal Basin development - with City Inns being named as the operators. This seems to be gathering pace.

Allies and Morrison (http://www.alliesandmorrison.co.uk/)

as aviator mentioned - nothing on Monksbridge Forge though - shame!

When is this starting

well a little more:

go to the news section on the Allies and Morrison website, and click on the 10th story - confirmation of planning permission being granted for the hotel element of the Canal Basin development - with City Inns being named as the operators. This seems to be gathering pace.

Allies and Morrison (http://www.alliesandmorrison.co.uk/)

as aviator mentioned - nothing on Monksbridge Forge though - shame!

I couldn't find it. Where abouts is it?

Not to sure about the design, looks incredibly blocky. I liked the hand drawn designs, it looked more like red brick then I think.

Found it......not too impressive, I must say.

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_model_410.jpg

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/6_canal%20basin_image_410.jpg

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/7_canal%20basin_image_400.jpg

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_sketch_410.jpg..

Higher and higher!!

We are getting towards the Canary Wharf solution - quality high rise surrounded by water, but on a lower Leeds scale! Unfortunately, I think that we have now lost all the office development from this site, to be replaced by 1 hotel, and two residential blocks. I think a greater mix of uses would have been more beneficial. Put another 10 stories of offices under the circular tower, and we will be getting there.....

please no more 'terracotta'!!!!!!

Is it teracotta ? Can't tell from these images.

I thought the tower was wood?
Not the best source, but sounds like the earliest development will start after August, as they are apparently already planning a repeat of the music festval that was on that site this summer http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/articles/2006/07/31/blast_across_the_tracks_feature.shtml

Also the tower would be the ideal location for a rooftop restaurant, as the circular design would allow a rotating floor, views of Critereon (hopefully) and Lumiere and I'm sure the rest of town too. Plus all the trade from the hotel on the doorstep...

I thought the tower was wood?
Not the best source, but sounds like the earliest development will start after August, as they are apparently already planning a repeat of the music festval that was on that site this summer http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/articles/2006/07/31/blast_across_the_tracks_feature.shtml

Yes, I believe the tower is indeed clad in wood.
The ISIS regeneration website states that development will begin any time now, and as we know test digs have taken place already. I found an article that stated ISiS loaned the land to the festival organisers so to speak this year, as they already own it, but I definitely think by next years festival development will have started and Across the tracks will be moved elsewhere.

By then (hopefully) Clarence Dock will have been generally completed, finishing touches? In other words, a site for 'Across The Tracks' until the completion of Granary Wharf, when it can be moved back, unless it becomes established at Clarence Dock.

probably already said this before, but I like the circular tower and stepped block closest to Blue, but despair at the monolithic middle block which appears to be the new City Inn hotel (though applaud the opening of a hotel in such a location).

was in Leeds a month ago and spotted some info and hoardings inside one of the vacant units in the arches, but cars still using the site. Any sign of contractors yet, or perhaps a permanent shutting of the car park?

the site plan shows an encouraging amount of public space, with plenty of scope for a few decent bars and shops on the ground floor. another little footbridge across the dock just to the side of Heathcotes would be brilliant and much better link the site with BWP, but probably not a priority. A direct footlink down to Granary Wharf from the farthest station platforms (12-17!?!) definitely a priority.

Yes onto platform 17; however, if they are to do this, some ticket-gate needs to be built too; not just stairs OR alternatively get rid of the ticket gates all together. I think ticket gates are good actually; but they should be autmoatic not manual as they are.

I agree, a link to Platform 17 is vital in the near future, its annoying getting off the train and having to walk around the whole station to get to BWp. (Especially when that little shortcut staircase near the taxis is closed, which it seems to have been alot recently.)

Well, folks, it's good news - at least for those of us who like this development!

Full planning permission has just been given for the proposal, so fingers crossed for an early start. The ISIS website lists an autumn start date and they've done some preparatory soil sampling.

One thing I'm curious about is that a new pedestrian bridge will be part of the development and I can't for the life of me imagine where it could be placed.

Thats great news. I think this scheme is really good especially the tower and what is needed for this area. so is this to be started some time this month

Fingers crossed for a quick start then.

I agree, a link to Platform 17 is vital in the near future, its annoying getting off the train and having to walk around the whole station to get to BWp. (Especially when that little shortcut staircase near the taxis is closed, which it seems to have been alot recently.)

I seem to remember this has actually been proposed?

On 30 March Leeds City Centre Plans Panel, following planning officers' recommendations for approval, gave Planning Permission for the erection of two 14-storey buildings (a hotel and an apartment block) and one 22-storey building (a round residential tower, with restaurant and bar on the ground floor) on the large waterside open space which is the historic Leeds and Liverpool Canal Basin. They also sanctioned the turning of the historic Dark Arches Festival Market into a car park for hotel users and apartment residents.

May 06 Newsletter: http://www.leedscivictrust.org.uk/index.htm

If I had known they were turning the shopping into car parking I would have been 100% against - can't believe they've let this happen - it was truely unique, one of the few places for independant shops too. This plus the loss of open space by the water.

None of the councillors sounded impressed and those who voted in favour only did so as it was 'better than nothing'.

Hmm it is a shame to loose the Granary Wharf festival village but sadly it was always a bit of a white elephant being out of the sticks of the main shopping area. Wasn't Granary Wharf more popular as a development in terms of patronage and occupancy during the 1990s after it opened and how come did it decline to such an extent resulting in its total closure with this development. What options would there have been for retaining this site as a place for independent shops. Perhaps the largely derelict Kirkgate near the Corn Exchange could be used to fill that function in the future for the independent retail which can be lacking at Leeds at the moment.

Also will this development of car parking take up all of the Dark Arches or will part be still undeveloped? Isn't there some really weird stuff down there such as storage areas for goods to Leeds station that have been unused since Victorian times and even rumours of a secret underground link between City Station and the old Royal Mail building that is now West Point.

I thought they were going to revitalise the shopping area, not eliminate it completely. It will be a missed opportunity in my opinion, I dont see why they couldnt have had two taller buildings, one space left for cars, then brought the public realm in combination with the shops and the waterfront. Would have been a bit like Albert Dock in Liverpool, which combines the waterfront with some superb shopping.
In answer as to why it declined, you have to look at two factors. 1, when they started to charge for parking, and 2, when they jacked up the rents for the shops, forcing many out of business. Terrible really, and now look whats happened. I feel though this is an ok development, that simply running ramshod over the little occurences that make the city individual will destroy the urban grain and render some of the most promising areas for redevelopment heartless and cold.
Has this development started? I noticed a sign that said ISIS on it at the entrance to Granary Wharf that may have been a directional sign for contractors arriving on site, but didnt notice any actual activity.

i think they have a project office in the Lock Keepers Cottage bit on the left handside as you come over the bridge from Water Lane. One of the glass fronted units overlooking the dock have renders and info boards on the development in.

Agree, a shame that the Dark Arches are no more, I remember them being a great little location back in the early 1990s, but I think that might have been before the Corn Exchange really took root etc. They seem to have lost their cache and impetus over the last 10 years, and I wonder if the gradual loss of units was simply down to an uneconomic / unviable location compared to the regeneration and growth (Corn Exchange, Briggate, the Light etc) of the CBD.

ISIS are probably making the most of the site, and I must admit using the Arches as a car park isn't such a bad idea.

Coming round the the 22 storey resi tower. The hotel is still tripe though.

I spoke to staff in one of the few shops remaining down there (still some nice little places left down there - and suprisingly reasonably busy too). I was shocked to find the market had closed, but I hadn't been down there for a few years (too many people like me?). They said the market had been closed so that it would make way for the redevelopment - but they were under the impression the market would be kept and reopened. I was hoping the redevelopment was going to really reinvogorate this unique Leeds asset by increasing footfall/awareness...

http://www.baumanlyons.co.uk/files/dark%20arches%20visual_362px.jpg

So does this mean we won't see the development proposed above?
Shocking that it could be used as a car park for more apartments and a hotel. FFS, the Dark Arches are unique. It really pisses me off that some philistine property developer can be sat toasting his success in some new build Linton mansion while one of the great achievements of the industrial revolution in Leeds is turned into even more of a car park than it is at the moment.

All that talk last year of introducing a cultural/artistic element to HUV and Granary Wharf has been shown up for what it was, the tossing of tossers.

:mad: Sorry, i should think rationally before i post.

I'm wondering if we WILL see the above development, but with usual mix of Subway, Starbucks et al...? Then the area that was the market turned into parking - such a waste.
Yes there's the Markets and the CornX, but they serve a different market to that of Granary Wharfe. There's also Merrion Market but that's just weird.

http://www.baumanlyons.co.uk/files/dark%20arches%20visual_362px.jpg
So does this mean we won't see the development proposed above?
Calm down di Liv. This is the road/walkway from Neville Street. The ISIS development will make this MORE likely to happen sooner. Because it will provide an attractive gateway into the whole ISIS development - a fact which the developers will be very aware of.

The loss of the shops under the arches is no biggie. I mean, who shopped there? And the reality is, hotels and apartments are much easier to sell if there is parking provision.

This whole development will finally start to connect Water Lane/Globe Road to the city core in a meaningful way. Now we only need a snazzy new entrance to the station and it's done. Which if you think about it, is now MORE likely to happen. Enough footfall to justify it - hotel users, residents, office workers from BWP, Round Foundry etc etc.

For me, the development of this part of Leeds and into HUV (and now a possible arena) are the most enticing. Come back in 10 years and you won't recognise the place. And believe me, 10 years can fly by!

Calm down di Liv.

Some clear-headed thinking there, magic.
You're right, the Dark Arches has never developed in the way it was supposed to (i guess that's why it is a huge car park at the moment), so my 'build it and they will come' philosophy is flawed. As at Clarence Dock, the hotel and apartments will actually give people a proper reason to wander down to Granary Wharf, so that the disappearance of the markets doesn't automatically mean the disappearance of the restaurants and the solitary Ainsleys cafe.

A-ha (the exclamation, not the Scandanavian '80s group)

They could develop it as a venue for conferences, or for music events; like The Cockpit, or bars and restaurants over shops. I do think it should be something other than a car park though. Hopefully it will be the case that as the ISIS development attracts more people here, there will be more demand for space around here, therefore resulting in later development of the car park. A replacement car park could be provided on Water Lane, or the dark arch area could be extended further under the viaducts to provide more parking.

The underground shops were a bit of a commercial failure, a good idea but it didn't work. More people are more likely to walk through and see these brick caverns when it is used as a car park! At least people will be going in there in big numbers regularly. Also, I think the arched units at the edge of the Victorian Granary Wharf will still be for retail use.

I always remember it being quite busy in the late 80's/early 90's - they used to have events in school holidays... Speaking to the shop keepers it sounded like the market stall holders were forced out. It was hardly well advertised to visitors either - the dark arches aren't the sort of place you pass, and if you do pass them you they hardly look inviting...

Calm down di Liv. This is the road/walkway from Neville Street. The ISIS development will make this MORE likely to happen sooner. Because it will provide an attractive gateway into the whole ISIS development - a fact which the developers will be very aware of.

The loss of the shops under the arches is no biggie. I mean, who shopped there? And the reality is, hotels and apartments are much easier to sell if there is parking provision.

This whole development will finally start to connect Water Lane/Globe Road to the city core in a meaningful way. Now we only need a snazzy new entrance to the station and it's done. Which if you think about it, is now MORE likely to happen. Enough footfall to justify it - hotel users, residents, office workers from BWP, Round Foundry etc etc.

For me, the development of this part of Leeds and into HUV (and now a possible arena) are the most enticing. Come back in 10 years and you won't recognise the place. And believe me, 10 years can fly by!

^^ couldn't agree more - interesting news about the Arena in HUV - the old Reality extension site behind the Commercial pub must be a real possibility.

I always remember it being quite busy in the late 80's/early 90's - they used to have events in school holidays... Speaking to the shop keepers it sounded like the market stall holders were forced out. It was hardly well advertised to visitors either - the dark arches aren't the sort of place you pass, and if you do pass them you they hardly look inviting...

I seem to remember it being a bit more grungey than it is today, with stalls set out in the main area like an eastern bazaar. TBH I never liked the sanitised market complex that replaced it, it was more exciting when it seemed like a genuinely dangerous place to be. i remember being terrified by the thought of falling into the water and being swept away.

http://static.flickr.com/91/276053717_de12ad450a.jpg?v=0

wuss!

wuss!

I was only eight years old!

Reading Even Flow's post in the Criterion Place thread sent me to the Knight Frank annual report on the Leeds office market which he quoted. and I spotted this on page 4:

"ISIS are also in the process of bringing forward a mixed use development on Granary Wharf which will further boost the vibrant offer in the city by including a number of bar and restaurant opportunities such as a roof top restaurant within the four star City Inn Hotel."

That's great news as long as a) they don't decide to squeeze in a few more bedrooms and b) they don't give the franchise to McDonalds.

On the subject of restaurants opening, it's good news that Sous Le Nez are opening at Bridgewater Place. I also read the other day that the people behind La Grillade have bought the Portland pub on Great George Street. It will reopen as as a restaurant/bar called the Water Hole (which is what it was called when I first came to this fair city at the back end of the 80s).

This area is fast becoming the hotel district of the city. With this, Hilton, queens and the proposed hotel in Criterion Place there's going to be plenty of choice in the future.

I've got a sneaky suspicion the Hilton will be the Criterion hotel, and then the Hilton building demolished for another tower (I hope anyway).

Looks like Isis are gearing up for a launch of Granary Wharf in February 2007. They have taken a full page advert in P&D advising of the launch but are advising interested parties to register early if interested to avoid dissapointment. They are selling it as a fully integrated destination rather than just a collection of residential blocks, which is great if true. They describe the launch as the next big thing to hit the Leeds residential market in the new year.

Looks like Isis are gearing up for a launch of Granary Wharf in February 2007. They have taken a full page advert in P&D advising of the launch but are advising interested parties to register early if interested to avoid dissapointment. They are selling it as a fully integrated destination rather than just a collection of residential blocks, which is great if true. They describe the launch as the next big thing to hit the Leeds residential market in the new year.

marvellous, expect they may end up with a gym built in, and the hotel guarantees a couple of bars and restaurants possibly. Both the proximity of the site to the station, City Square and HUV, and the waterside location make it one of most prime city centre sites IMO. City Inns have already signed up for the hotel element, so I'd expect they'd want a start to be made asap.

First sign will be closure of the car park then. Eyes peeled team!

They advertised for contractors to tender for the hotel in CN a few weks ago, perhaps that will start first as they are well advanced with signing up the hotel operater.

ISIS Waterside have updated their website, the main news seemingly confirming a spring (I guess sometime between Feb and April) start on site:

http://www.isis.gb.com/leedsgranary/index.html?u=22

Leeds Granary Wharf

Location: City centre site adjacent to the Leeds and Liverpool Canal, the River Aire and Leeds Central Railway Station.

Vision: A new public square uniting the city and the waterfront as a vibrant destination for Leeds City Centre. 275 apartment homes designed for the widest possible audience, commercial and business opportunities and a first-class community focussed hotel.

USP: The only vibrant waterside destination in Leeds city centre.

Architect: Carey Jones, CZWG and Allies & Morrison

Stages:

Planning to be granted: Autumn 2006
Start on site: Spring 2007
Hotel opens: Winter 2008
Completed: Spring 2009

Good that this is starting soon would certainly improve this underused end of town which is pretty much a car park at present and does not reflect its former role as a industrial site. Bit odd and vague 'estate agents' term for USP though: the only vibrant waterside destiation in Leeds. :| What about other potential sites such as Wellington Place, Tower Works, former Thistle Hotels HQ and Clarence Dock which if developed rightly become 'vibrant' in the future? How tall will the cylindrical building be and will a redevelopment of the dark arches including the former Granary Wharf festival village be tied in with this development?

First sign will be closure of the car park then. Eyes peeled team!

It's started!

The car park under the railways arches is closed, there are piles of wooden posts and plywood, and sections of metal fencing are going up along the front of the arches that house the teppanyaki restaurant and Bar Home.

seriously! Wow! Is that just from today ... I hope so cos I walked past there this weekend and I never noticed any changes and I'd hate it if I were just stoopidly blind!

Well. This is strange; its rare that we hear of developments actually starting in Leeds! 22 storey tower to look forward to here. ISIS states a start on site of Spring this year- once its started its all good! By the summer there should be quite a change; Lumiere, Granary Wharf, Opal- Clarence Dock opens this year..

It's started!

The car park under the railways arches is closed, there are piles of wooden posts and plywood, and sections of metal fencing are going up along the front of the arches that house the teppanyaki restaurant and Bar Home.

Well that is good news that this development is started. Is there any chance someone could post some pictures of the construction on site. Also surely the development of this should surely mean that they should speed up the opening of a southern entrance to Leeds city station from this development (and perhaps also have a railway station entrance to serve Criterion Place when that is developed). Also has there been any notable change within Granary Wharf Festival Village itself or has nothing occured there yet?

Wow, started? Excellant news. What a good start to 2007.

Went past at the weekend and definately nothing happening, but these things are most likely to start on a Monday.

The hotel is due first, but the residential tower is not too far behind so could start at the same time, they have done test drills for it already.

We'll have to watch this one very carefully. :)

It's started!

The car park under the railways arches is closed, there are piles of wooden posts and plywood, and sections of metal fencing are going up along the front of the arches that house the teppanyaki restaurant and Bar Home.

^^

thanks aviator

lots of positive news in the New Year. My fav project down here (Richard Roger's 122 Leadenhall Street - aka the Cheesegrater), is just about to make a start with demolition of the current building, and with things like Round Foundary phase 2, Manor Mills, Granary Wharf and Lumiere breaking ground, there will be plenty to hold our attention as BWP finishes construction.

Am rather excited about this development now - especially the 2 residential blocks at either end, hopefully will be massive improvement on the gaudy and dated looking 'Blue' development which is only 3 years old.

A digger is on site today, possibly digging foundations for the marketing suite, it was quite hard to tell at this early stage.

A good view of this is obviously from upstairs in the station, you can see most of the site easily.

Bloody hell, I'm only out of the country for 3 days and it's all kicking off already! At this rate Criterion will be starting by the time I'm back in the country! ;)

I would laugh if when you got back, all the projects had been completed too and there were 100 storey buildings or something stupid being built. And you had missed all the excitement :D

i think its great this is actually starting, everything takes so long in leeds hopefully this portends a change...

..

Five past noon.

Subliving.

Sorry but is this the development that has a circular 20 storey building and a waterfront project if it is great.

I believe so; 22 storeys though isnt it?

Im sorry if its been stated numerous times previously but im just too lazy this evo to look back... what is the tower going to be clad in? is it wood? because that would be just peachy, a wood clad tower is a must have for the city!!!!

I seem to remember someone saying it was wood, yes.

..

It will also build up the density around the station approach; will start to feel like you're entering a real city! (As opposed to a fake one =/) But anyway you know what I mean. Currently on entering the city by train, it feels rather run down- a failed effort at regeneration although once you pass through to the other side of the station its like a whole other world. Its just first impressions.

OK, folks, the first pics of the development. I didn't quite get the Lord Mayor cutting the first sod but pretty close, nonetheless.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/10%20Jan%202007/P1010201.jpg?t=1168468318


It looked weird with the excavator below ground level while the water in the canal basin was so high.

This second one is especially for Jimbo. I want you to take a good look at your beloved Blue because you ain't going to be seeing it in such a smack-you-in-the eye such a way for very much longer.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a178/apm22/10%20Jan%202007/P1010202.jpg?t=1168468457

That ground floor retail unit in Blue will hopefully be taken as it becomes a more desireable area with the Granary Wharf development.

..

lol alright it wasnt that funny! I was just thinking when I was typing that "wth does it mean when you say a real city!" but how else would you say it!?

..

I would laugh if when you got back, all the projects had been completed too and there were 100 storey buildings or something stupid being built. And you had missed all the excitement :D

lol :D

It'd certainly be impressive if they were all completed in 3 months!

From those photos they are starting on the stepped 14 storey block first. I presumed the hotel is in the first phase as that is being pushed forward now. Perhaps they will go up at the same time.

lol i know exactly what you mean.

some things are just hard to put into words.

I think you two are living in your own little world. :nuts:

This second one is especially for Jimbo. I want you to take a good look at your beloved Blue because you ain't going to be seeing it in such a smack-you-in-the eye such a way for very much longer.

thanks sport. perhaps I've been a little scathing, but I remember the first proposal (18 storeys, taller, without the stepped nature) and rather liked that. Was disappointed the design changed and then disappointed by the overall finish. I think the bright blue hoarding on ground level doesn't help much - if they had a nice bar open there, glass fronted and double height it might help the overall effect.

The basin looks v. full, wonder if they need to do lots of reinforcing(propping?!?) of the canal basin walls before they start construction? Suppose, as the canal basin is man made the substrate should be fairly solid to start with. Not as if they are building Battery Park City from landfill (a good chunk of NY's financial district was built on landfill from the original Twin Towers site dumped inbetween old pier/wharves on the Hudson River facing New Jersey). Pardon short Jimbo digression, spotted a link and was pining for another trip Stateside.

The river is pretty darn high at the moment anyways, it was spilling over the banks at Allerton Bywater today in torrents, very high indeed!!

Had a look around today. I'm sure the high water isn't going to cause any problems here.

The hoarding frame is starting around the circular tower end of the site.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid222/pebabe529d5832df381c5c591c957b208/eb1cf5fe.jpg

Also, at the 14 storey stepped block end, excavation is now progressing, I expect we'll see drilling rigs in the not too distant future.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid222/p3eec83d97b18c4a78a2b2273e58c832f/eb1cf556.jpg

thanks rob, all systems a go-go then. Excellent observation point from the station concourse, next to the Starbucks Bar above the tracks.

Have we worked out who has the construction contract for this?

Its quite an interesting site logistically, I expect that little bridge over the canal to be receiving a quite hefty stream of construction traffic into the site. The little tracksuited scallies who seem to live for fishing off the canal basin are probably hacked off with being moved off their favourite site.

I love the way we are starting to use the river more!

I love the way we are starting to use the river more!


Yes, it is odd that despite being some distance from Leeds' post-industrial re-awakening, it's only now that these important waterside spaces are being redeveloped.
However, there is the risk that these locations are available only to a certain class of people and because of this, they may find it difficult to be accepted as part of the core of Leeds as opposed to its periphery.

..

Like moving into Criterion tower 2 then demolishing?

I say either demolish it and build a skyscraper on site (suitable site), or strip it down K2 or West Point style and pretty much start again. That doesnt mean to use the same design as those at all, but that concept. Hilton should go into Criterion though yes.

The Hilton does need something doing to it, it doesn't make a very good impression at all when approaching the train station and is looking increasingly worse as all these new developments come on stream around it. They are showing it up for the grubby eyesore it is. I think the idea suggested by LeedsLad to relocate it within the smaller tower of Criterion would be terrific. This would probably bring Hilton's flagship hotel in the city up to the standard and style of its counterpart contained within the Beetham Tower in Manchester.

I can't believe I've only just looked at this thread the past few days and just found out yet another tower is going on site in Leeds (the circular one)...unbelievable, in a good way though! Should be an exciting couple of years construction wise for Leeds, the skyline will be transformed.

As for the Hilton they should certainly rework that and isn't there meant to be a Hotel at Criterion Place which Hilton could occupy perhaps releasing the old Hilton for a radical reclad into offices, residential or perhaps another hotel. As for Granary Wharf is the planned southern entrance to Leeds City Station part of this development and is there any plans into how this would look and link into the ISIS scheme?

Totally agree, the upper half of the Hilton is long overdue a reclad or something, at least. The lower half was re-done a few years ago and doesn't look bad.

I don't think the link from Granary Wharf into the station is part of the Isis scheme, I believe it was proposed by Network Rail, but not a serious proposal at this stage.

The next good thing for this area would be to get the st. steel panels with the fancy lighting scheme fitted in the Neville Street tunnel, it is approved now so the sooner the better.

The next good thing for this area would be to get the st. steel panels with the fancy lighting scheme fitted in the Neville Street tunnel, it is approved now so the sooner the better.

Remember reading about this in the YEP, was there to be sound as well as lighting ? Will be a massive improvement, on the current dark damp and dismal amber floodlit state, and as lots already do walk under Neville Street Bridge, even more for the enjoyable walk to and from HUV, Halifax, BWP.

http://www.baumanlyons.co.uk/files/neville%20street%20visual_362px.jpg
Is that dibbers artwork ?

The Hilton does need something doing to it, it doesn't make a very good impression at all when approaching the train station and is looking increasingly worse as all these new developments come on stream around it. They are showing it up for the grubby eyesore it is. I think the idea suggested by LeedsLad to relocate it within the smaller tower of Criterion would be terrific. This would probably bring Hilton's flagship hotel in the city up to the standard and style of its counterpart contained within the Beetham Tower in Manchester.

I can't believe I've only just looked at this thread the past few days and just found out yet another tower is going on site in Leeds (the circular one)...unbelievable, in a good way though! Should be an exciting couple of years construction wise for Leeds, the skyline will be transformed.

The Hilton certainly does need something doing to it. Demolishing it would be the best thing that could happen (obviously with the hotel moving into the smaller Criterion tower as you've just said) and replacing it with a better building - and that would only leave City House as the remaining eyesore (hopefully something will be done with that).

this part of town could be a really great lively well-used district in a few years time... if the hilton does go to criterion (hopefully as a 5 star) then the building to replace it could provide a more attractive way through to granary wharf. i really hope that a large number of shops line dark neville st after its refurb, as it would really entice people down through to holbeck. i always wonder how shops down there stay afloat but if there were more then it could become more of a destination. its only 2-3 mins walk from the shopping core after all.

A demolished Hilton could be the location of the southern entrance to the station; clearly, it shouldnt take up all this space; so offices or more retail could be provided there.

..

A demolished Hilton could be the location of the southern entrance to the station; clearly, it shouldnt take up all this space; so offices or more retail could be provided there.

What a cool idea.

It would be a better location than at Granary Wharf, as to put it at Granary Wharf would mean relaxation and leisure space taken up by a considerable structure in an area that is already small. It would also block some of the arches up.

Putting it where the Hilton is would also be better for people themselves; going directly down to serve Bridgewater Place, Criterion Place, Green Flag, ASDA etc. In comparison with Granary Wharf, an average office worker would have to work their way across the other side of the river either by Victoria Bridge or the bridge over the canal. I dont think I worded that very well, but basically saying about pedestrian flows. The Hilton is alot more well located and central than Granary Wharf in relation to the growing office district.

Wow, this site was a hive of activity earlier today! Numerous JCBs, workmen etc beavering away, the whole site is now boarded off as well. Should see some piling soon I would have thought.
As with Opal, I have a number of shots of the site but cant upload them from this PC. Grrhhhhhhhhhh.....

Forgot to mention, its Laing O Rourke building this.

Try and get the pics up even flow.

Laing O'Rourke, the job is in good hands then.

Wow, this site was a hive of activity earlier today! Numerous JCBs, workmen etc beavering away, the whole site is now boarded off as well. Should see some piling soon I would have thought.
As with Opal, I have a number of shots of the site but cant upload them from this PC. Grrhhhhhhhhhh.....

Forgot to mention, its Laing O Rourke building this.

thanks for that news, Lumiere and Granary Wharf are going to be our two high profile projects for the next couple of years. I hope the finish of this scheme stands up to criticism.

thanks for that news, Lumiere and Granary Wharf are going to be our two high profile projects for the next couple of years. I hope the finish of this scheme stands up to criticism.

Don'y forget Opal Tower (under construction) and The PLaza, ( starts construction in the Summer) both of which will make a big impact on the city skyline.

thanks for that news, Lumiere and Granary Wharf are going to be our two high profile projects for the next couple of years. I hope the finish of this scheme stands up to criticism.

Don't forget Opal Tower (under construction) and The PLaza, ( starts construction in the Summer) both of which will make a big impact on the city skyline.

The station really should clean it's windows.....

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5528/1000569vd2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5161/1000571jr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

An attempt to peek through the shutters.....
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5416/1000555jl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and finally a particularly poor effort even by my point and click standards

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/971/1000556dj1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

There hitting this site HARD. Settign a good example to all those fannying about not doing anything (ahem greenbank)

The station really should clean it's windows.....

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5528/1000569vd2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5161/1000571jr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wow. Priceless photos, Even Flow.
It seems like they're really motoring with this one.

Oh dear, I could hardly recognise the place.

Oh dear, I could hardly recognise the place.

Don't worry, there should still be plenty of open space.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v429/Kesaph/GWharfApr06.jpg

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_urbmast_lrg/5_canal%20basin_model_410.jpg

amazing were did you get that model?

I wonder will the developer be bringing waterfront bars and cafes out here, or will it be another waste of the waterside space we have in our city?

Subliving.

I believe there is retail in the base of at least one of the blocks.

leedsthebest, the model and more info can be found here...
http://www.careyjones.co.uk/portfolio/details.php?page_id=581

I think the model sells the scheme really well, it looks a nicely balanced development with three very individual buildings, and a nice layout of open space.

Great news, yet another major development on site in 2007.

Have they started work on the Tower site, or is it the other 2 mid rise blocks?

Is there some significance to the round tower - if you look at diLivios pic above, the site appears to have a circular concrete area there already?...

To be honest, I think its just a coincidence...

Great news, yet another major development on site in 2007.

Have they started work on the Tower site, or is it the other 2 mid rise blocks?

As can be seen on this photo taken this morning, construction has begun only on the lower rise buildings. As is usually the case, the tower will be in the final phase of building.


http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q281/nosmo2/CIMG1768.jpg

Has it all gained planning permission because as weve see with the gateway the tower is the final phase and still were waiting for approval thistower is a difference from the rectangular buildings and should be constructed primarily i think to lure the buyers into the area but as long as the construction of the tower is seen soon im ok with it.