Rochester Development News [Archive]

blangjr21

August 5th, 2005, 06:13 AM

Ren Square

The Ren Square project really is something that I wasn't too keen on at first, but now as it has gained some steam, you can't help but enjoy what it will do for an area of downtown Rochester that has surely seen better days.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/graphics/news/ren_square/timeline_1.jpg

That is what the square is supposed to look like, transforming empty buildings located on the corner of E. Main & N. Clinton

The structure will include three performing arts theatres, one large (2,500+) one medium (1,500+) and one traveling (500) seat venues. A Regional Transit Center, housing all incoming and outgoing busses in the Greater Rochester area, and the new MCC Damon Central City campus. The Damon Campus already exists in the Sibley building (located across from the liberty pole) but is in need of expansion as it only gets more students every year, and they are definitely due for an upgrade to the current facilities.

The project is already 50% funded at this point, and it looks as if the shovel will break into the ground by 2007 if all continues to go as planned.

Midtown Plaza
There is now a growing support to get rid of the Midtown Plaza "Mall" while keeping the Midtown tower, moving shopping into the Sibley Center, and to redevelope the current footprint of Midtown, into something much more feasible for a city of this size. Not much else has been proposed to this point, but there is definitely plans in the works.

PAETEC Park
My personal favorite, and possibly the most popular current project in the city, is PAETEC Park, the new 20,000 seat soccer stadium located close to the AAA Ballpark, Frontier Field. Construction is nearly complete on Phase I, and Phase II, and III will most likely continue through this summer, and will be complete by spring for the 2006 USL First Division season. With the highest attendence in the USL First Division since their inception Rochester was titled Soccertown USA as well as the best minor league sports town in the country in year 2005. We are very proud of this honor (although those in Buffalo will be quick to point out "minor" league (GO BILLS!))

http://www.rhinossoccer.com/setup/uploads/paetecpark1.jpg

Many more projects I didn't cover, but thats at least a start!

BuffCity

August 5th, 2005, 02:59 PM

Paetec looks great, but the looks of Ren Square are a little troubling.

Downtown campus is a good idea, and if the bus terminal needs expansion I would say do so. all the performing arts centers seems a little excessive, maybe they could put a museum in there or something instead.

Anyone been to San Antonio TX? the Riverwalk? thats what Rochester shoud look at building.

BuffCity

August 5th, 2005, 04:30 PM

ViaHealth skies clearing

System reports a better bottom line for 2004

Joy Davia
Staff writer

(August 5, 2005) — A fundraising project helped ViaHealth more than triple its bottom line in 2004, officials said.

ViaHealth, the health system that operates Rochester General Hospital, ended the year with a $21.5million surplus, up from $6.3 million in 2003. ViaHealth's foundation accounted for $9.7 million of that total. The foundation had launched a campaign that year to raise funds for the hospital's largest expansion project in almost two decades, officials said.

This is the second-straight year of positive financial results for the nonprofit health system, the region's fifth-largest employer with 5,263 full-time workers.

ViaHealth had suffered for years through multimillion-dollar losses. But the health system has since fixed its billing problems and downsized — including closing Genesee and Myers Community hospitals — and has made other moves to strengthen itself.

Rochester General, ViaHealth's core business, also boosted its bottom line by about 30 percent, recording surplus operational earnings of $11.3 million and a total surplus of $13million in 2004.

"It was a good year, but not a great year," said Richard Hogg, ViaHealth's chief financial officer.

The hospital benefited financially from more people getting certain services, he said. The number of people getting inpatient and ambulatory surgery, for example, was up 4 to 5 percent. He said growth areas included urology, general surgery and bariatrics, which is weight-loss surgery.

The hospital's 3 percent operational margin was about on par with the most recently reported performance of other area hospitals.

Strong Memorial, Highland and Park Ridge hospitals have had margins ranging from 2 percent to 4 percent.

Such margins are generally good for hospitals in New York, said Diane Ashley, executive vice president of Rochester Regional Healthcare Advocates, a hospital trade association.

About 53 percent of hospitals in the state failed to break even in 2003, which is the most recent data available through the Healthcare Association of New York State.

As a nonprofit, ViaHealth and its subsidiaries will use the extra money to upgrade equipment and reinvest in facilities. Rochester General, for example, is in the middle of an approximately $60 million project that includes a new parking garage and expansion of its emergency department.

The foundation has so far raised about $37 million toward a goal of $46 million for the project, said Diane Ewing, spokeswoman.

But not all of ViaHealth's subsidiaries had improved financial news in 2004.

Hill Haven nursing home and senior services lost $1.7 million, and Newark-Wayne Community hospital saw its net income dip to $160,420 in 2004, a drop of about 80 percent from the previous year.

blangjr21

August 5th, 2005, 05:27 PM

Couple of things to reply to:

We don't have a bus terminal right now, all there is are a couple of small glass shelters with lots of busses crowding in front of midtown plaza, so theres definitely a need for the terminal, with ridership over 100,000 (RGRTA Statistics) each day.

The need for performing arts centers is there, a very high demand has been placed, because we just don't have a good performing arts center, the Auditorium theatre was just refurbished last year, but only seats around 250-300 and is far too small for the productions that Rochesterians want to see.

Also with three world class museums (RMSC, Strong Museum, Memorial Art Gallery) I'm not thinking that at this point we need another, and the architecture of the Ren Square may leave something to be desired, but hey its being designed by Moshe Safdie and Associates the same architects who brought you this:

http://expo67.ncf.ca/expo_habitat_structure.jpg

I may not be supportive of the design, or the asthetics of the proposal, but i'm all for what is being included in the project.

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 05:59 PM

I'm here, Buff City (sorry, you caught me napping...lol).

There are many, many things going on in Rochester right now. Many of them the fruits of the former Democratic Mayor.

If you go to this site, you can catch up on the latest project development on Paetec Park. This is going to be an awesome structure, and one of the few things that city council, nor the builders, cheaped out on. When you're on the site, you'll be able to click on a picture and it will blow it up to a much larger size, affording you a greater view. It's pretty cool, but has only been updated to June 21st of this year. Check it out: http://www.rhinossoccer.com/stadium/

Then you have this:

Medical Arts Building
277 Alexander Street

In 1929, the Noyes Mansion was torn down to make way for the exciting new Medical Arts Building. Constructed in popular art deco style, the building served as the center for doctors, dentists and other health care providers to more effectively and conveniently serve their patients.

Like the other well-known art deco buildings in Rochester—Times Square Building, Little Theater and the Reynolds Arcade—the Medical Arts building featured angular, geometric shapes, black decorative details and streamlined aerodynamic design principles that mimicked the modern industrial age. After more than seven decades, the ten-story, 71,000-square-foot building had lost its largely medical clientele and much of its art deco detail. Flower City Management purchased the building with the purpose of restoring it to it's former glory.

Today, the Medical Arts Building is being transformed into an exciting new urban destination with upscale retail, commercial and Manhattan-style garden apartments conveniently located near downtown, the East End entertainment district and Park Avenue. Plumbing, electrical, fire protection, security, communications and windows have all been upgraded. And the building features a state-of-the-art high-efficiency heating and air conditioning system.

With the vision of Flower City Management and the Billone Family, this landmark will once again become an important part of Rochester's future.

The Temple Building project:

Loft Apartments Penthouse Lofts Work / Live Lofts Commercial Space Contact Us
CEI / Ownership Building History Building Restoration Tenant Directory Map of Downtown

The Temple Building was designed by Gordon & Koelber along
with Carl R.Traver and built in 1925. Featuring pinnacles, pointed
arches and decorative tracery, it is the City of Rochester's only
example of a 20th Century Neo-Gothic skyscraper.
Located in the heart of Downtown Rochester, at the intersection
of Liberty Pole Way, East Avenue, East Main Street and Franklin
Street,The Temple Building stands right between the Saint Paul
Quarter and the East End.

Additional development at Corn Hill:

Corn Hill Landing is in Rochester's central business district and is close to shopping centers, cultural sites and public transportation routes. This highly anticipated $20 million project includes 127 apartments, 15,000 square feet of office space and 14,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space.

Corn Hill Landing signifies a major event and step foward in pushing public and private investment along the Genesee River in Rochester, NY. Rochester, the third largest city in New York State, is referred to as the "World's Image Center", which marks Rochester as the home of such technology giants as Eastman Kodak Company, Baush & Lomb and the Xerox Corporation.

Corn Hill Landing from drawing to completion had the individual in mind. Almost every luxury apartment is unique with stylistic features such as; ceramic tiles, fireplaces, French balconies, vaulted ceilings, skylights and more. Appliances, such as washer and dryer, and all kitchen equipment are included. Individual storage areas are available with covenience in mind.

All of these luxury apartments are complimented by professionally decorated interior corridors secured by the latest in technology. You can ride the elevator to the private parking garage which is further secured with an electronic system.

Individual heating and cooling systems are using today's most sophisticated engineering offering each resident of the Landing the highest of energy efficiency. Corn Hill Landing uses geothermal technology to assist the cooling of every apartment.

Imagine, company is coming and you need some wine; hop on the elevator and make a quick stop at the boutique. Or, better yet, just take your companions on a short walk to one of the feature restaurants and entertain there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somewhere in our "New World" we lost the flavor that makes the traditional European Communities so wonderful. Corn Hill Landing has been designed by some of the finest architects along with one of Western New York's most respected developers, Mark IV Construction., Inc. Our goal is to fulfill the dreams of many people by providing a living environment that just cannot be found in this geographic region.

And the D&C article with a synopsis on most all of the projects, grouped together, with the actual number of condo's/apts. mentioned. Something the drivel from the developers/builders, didn't.

Aimee K. Wiles

Realtor Gar Lowenguth inside 228 South Avenue in Rochester which is being turned into loft-style condos. Lowenguth is listing the building for developer Pat D'Andria.
New sales plan aloft
Developers, buyers show more interest in city condos.

By David Tyler
Democrat and Chronicle

(January 31, 2003) -- Until recently, if you wanted to live in one of Rochester's growing number of converted loft apartments, you had to be willing to rent. Soon, you will be able to own.

Several developers say they are considering adding condominiums to their redevelopment plans. But their decision hinges on consumer demand, which seems to be increasing, thanks to low interest rates.

Developer Pat D'Andria has decided to turn 228 South Ave. into 13 loft-style condos. D'Andria will lease the building first, offering the units as apartments until the condo conversion process is complete. The renters will have an option to buy. Real estate agent Gar Lowenguth, who is listing the building for D'Andria, said he hopes to have the conversion completed by the end of the year.

The idea, Lowenguth said, is to bring something different to the housing market. ''In Rochester, you didn't have that alternative.''

Prices for the lofts will range from $140,000 to $240,000, he said. Lowenguth said he is so excited about the potential for condo conversions that he is working on two other projects. He declined to offer details.

Lowenguth said he received more than 120 calls about the space. ''I put the sign out and things just went crazy,'' he said. About 10 of the units are leased.

John Billone Jr. of Flower City Management, says he has received some interest from potential buyers in condos at his Medical Arts Building, 277 Alexander St. But Billone said he needs to see some more interest before making a decision.

Billone said he also is considering turning the old gymnasium at Sacred Heart Academy on Prince Street into about nine condos. Flower City renovated the old school building into loft apartments.

Billone said he decided not to proceed immediately at the Medical Arts building after an engineering study he commissioned suggested that banks might be reluctant to finance such a project. But Billone said he is not dissuaded.

''There is a market for it, I'm convinced. But sometimes it's tough to be the first person to do it.''

Not only is there a demand for the cool space provided by loft renovations, but low interest rates are making ownership easier, said Heidi Zimmer-Meyer, president of the Rochester Downtown Development Corp.

''If you're going to pay $1,000, $1,200 or $1,500 a month for one of these places, a lot of people are thinking, 'Why not earn some equity at the same time?' '' she said.

There are currently 77 renovated rental lofts downtown, Zimmer-Meyer said. An additional rentals 93 are in development. No other developers have committed to condos, she said, but many are looking.

John Piper, chief executive officer of the Realtors association, said loft-style space appeals to people who have owned houses and don't want to rent.

''They may want something different than the house with a yard,'' he said. ''They've been there and done that.''

Drew Costanza, who with his brother Jim is redeveloping the 14-story Temple Building on Franklin Street into a mix of lofts and office space, said he has received calls asking about buying one of the units. For now, though, the Costanzas are sticking to rentals.

''It's a question of whether you want to get paid up front or keep that revenue stream over the long term,'' Drew Costanza said.

Costanza said the lengthy, paperwork-filled process of converting to a condominium is also a deterrent. Developers must wait for the New York Attorney General's office to approve a condo conversion and approval can take up to a year.

That doesn't mean the Costanzas won't consider condos in the future.

The lure of unique spaces is attractive to Seth Kircher, 30, a Rochester resident who recently toured the South Avenue lofts. Kircher said he wants to support housing downtown, live in a ''different'' type of place, and likes the notion that he could sublease while building equity.

''Ultimately it looks like a good investment, too,'' he said.

Developers also are starting to think that. Even with 200 units available ''you're still talking about a very small segment of the market,'' Lowenguth said. ''I think there's plenty of room to grow.'' *

As I write this, I have no idea if the pictures I've downloaded are going to show up once I hit, "Post Quick Reply," so if they don't, I will have to put in the web link to ensure that purpose.

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 06:00 PM

Figures...they didn't show up. "Mr. Computer Literacy." Yup, that's me...lol

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 06:27 PM

Try this for one of the more exciting projects in WNY:

http://www.thesagamoreoneast.com/

BuffCity

August 5th, 2005, 06:28 PM

so there we have it, ownership of these loft joints are dependent on interest rates remaining low, this might be a key to infill in all the big Rust Belt cities of years past.

The old buildings provided huge areas, now not used, but converted they become awsome livable places worth more than 10 warehouses...and they usually have one hell of a view.

Buffalo and Rochester are both seeing this, hell Batavia even is...it's great because it leads to increased foot traffic and creation of residential neighborhoods ontop of commerical ones.

so where is all the construction for lofts and conversions in Rochester? inside the loop or outside and what streets?

blangjr21

August 5th, 2005, 06:29 PM

The Sagamore on East will be a real gem once its completed, some real high end living in the middle of the cities most popular area.

http://www.thesagamoreoneast.com/images/detail/Rendering.jpg

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM

This site gives you an overall view of the projects taking place in or near DT Rochester:

http://www.rochester-citynews.com/pdfs/downtown_developing.pdf

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 06:55 PM

This is another article giving you a bit more information on some of the newer projects coming of age:

Loft Living: Tech Culture Comes Home
by Justin Ziemniak
Loft living has become common with high-tech and business professionals with money to spare and the need for no-maintenance living.

They’re nothing like you’ve seen before... or at least I hadn’t envisioned the appeal until I took a tour of the Costanza Enterprises Inc.’s (CEI) loft apartments in the architectural and historic, 14-story Temple Building in downtown Rochester. Seeing what the hype is about, if I was a bachelor, I’d ditch my 2-story colonial for a trendy, industrial-décor loft apartment in a heartbeat.

Loft living is usually the result of old manufacturing, warehouse, or office buildings that have been converted into light, bright, open-style living or office spaces. They usually include an abundance of large windows with spectacular views, 25 foot ceilings, hardwoods or polished concrete floors, exposed brick and beam ceilings, exposed utilities and ductwork, and laundry hookups. You’ll find very few walls in most loft apartments, which makes for a very open, inviting living space with lots of natural light.

Loft space architecture is a mixture between modern décor with a striking commercial space or industrial edifice. High-tech gadgetry, alarm systems, high-speed Internet, several phone lines, and stainless steel kitchen appliances and accessories are the norm. Techies love these kinds of spaces because they offer wide open workspaces, can be used for both work and home living, and are normally central to large downtown businesses, restaurants, and entertainment venues.

With professionals and techies the prime target for loft apartments, developers make sure all the technological amenities are available to tenants. An abundance of Ethernet, cable and phone connections are typical, and many developers (such as CEI) have lit up their establishments with wireless Internet access.

“Connectivity is an expectation of the type of individual who is looking for loft living space,” claims Sean Phelani, Director of Project Development for the Rochester Downtown Development Corporation (RDDC). “It’s expected that Internet and other technology conveniences be there. When showing developers what we’re doing here in terms of loft spaces, they are blown away at how advanced the offerings are here in Rochester.”

CEI has went as far as purchasing their own telecommunications riser for the Temple Building so tenants can have their choice of providers when it comes to data and telecommunications services. In addition, fiber optic already installed throughout the living spaces will be ready for next-generation technologies such as video-on-demand and other data-driven services.

According to the 2004 RDDC housing survey, as of March 31st, 2004, there were 151 loft rental units available in the Rochester market, with 64 under construction and 18 more planned. Popular current loft spaces in downtown Rochester include the Knowlton Building, Michaels Stern Building, Smith-Gormley Building, and the Temple Building. According to the RDDC survey, there are 14 total loft living buildings, with more under construction.

Another big loft project going on right now (in addition to the Temple Building) is the 9-story Medical Arts Building renovation at 277 Alexander Street, which is slated to offer 31 loft apartments, according to the RDDC report. Flower City Management is renovating the building and converting the top three floors to luxury Manhattan Style apartments with roof decks, terraces, fireplaces, high-tech security system, and high-speed Internet. As extensive as it may sound, they plan to have apartments ready this year.

Loft apartments have been a boon to city living in major metropolitan areas like New York City and Boston, and only in past years have they been developed in the Rochester area. Lofts are becoming so popular and demand is so high that developers can’t furnish them fast enough. In fact, Costanza has sold out of their available lofts, except for two 1675+ sq. ft. loft penthouses on the 13th floor, which won’t be available until October. The remaining units have already pre-leased.

The majority of loft livers happen to be single professional males. Residents at the Temple Building lofts, located on Franklin Street include CEOs, Executive VP’s of major corporations, and other high-income, singles. According to Jennifer Hessley, Site Manager for the Temple Building, “75% of our residents are out-of-towners. They’re mostly highly-professional people in top management positions who relocated from big cities such as Boston, Manhattan and Houston. Our out-of-town tenants found out about us by searching the Internet and we conducted the whole transaction over the Net. The application process was simple with applications, floor plans, and CAD drawings being sent as PDF files, and the only face-to-face part of the deal was when I handed them the keys.”

“The main benefit for us moving into the Temple Building lofts was the ability to achieve commercial space without having to go through the official leasing agreements,” said Joe Morin, owner of ebizsitedesigns.com, who recently moved into the loft space in the Temple Building. He and girlfriend Mara chose the work-live loft space design so that they can operate their website design business there with separate address for the business and a professional atmosphere to invite clients to compared to a traditional home-based office. “We’re trying to obtain higher profile clients and the loft environment we chose that has a connected - but separate - work area makes our company office more official,” Morin added.

The Temple Building started out as a combination church and office space building in 1925. The temple was the venue for popular hotspot Heaven nightclub, which occupied the space in the ‘90’s. Today the temple sits idle, with future plans for the space undecided. The rest of the building is broken down into ½ office space and ½ residential loft space. Lofts reside on floors 2-7 and 13-14, with the latter being large, penthouse lofts.

The Temple Building lofts come in many different configurations, including six different one bedroom configurations, one studio layout, and 2 bedroom floor plans. Studios are priced at $750/month, 1 bedrooms fall in the range of $1,100– $1,650/mo, and 2-bedroom penthouses cost from $1,775–$2,050. You might say “that’s a mortgage payment,” but it’s the convenience of being in the city, the industrial atmosphere, no-maintenance living, and trendy lifestyle you are paying for. Not to mention, heated indoor parking garage, cleaning service, dry cleaning service, on-site security personnel, video phone intercom for the main entrance, digital ‘key fobs’ which wirelessly gain residents access to perimeter doors and unlock their floor when using the elevator, easy Internet connectivity, and the most beautiful city scenery outside your wall of windows.

“We’re fully wired for the future,” claims CEI President James Costanza. “We applied for economic development grants, and wired up the whole building in 2000. Each unit includes two Cat 5e, five fiber optic, cable and phone connections, plus our $20/month wireless Internet access, which transmits through the entire building, even outside and down Main Street.”

“Having so many different connections gives us a lot of flexibility in terms of connectivity and allows us to take advantage of future technology that becomes available,” says Morin. “The various connections are a real nice option, and we will probably utilize them sometime in the future. For now, we are a Road Runner Business Class customer, and have access to the wireless Internet offered in the building for redundancy.”

As I previously mentioned, loft apartments get leased quick, so finding available loft apartments may be tough. However, in searching the Rochester Downtown.com website, I found 16 lofts apartments available for rent. But if you’d rather buy than rent a loft living space, you may be in luck. According to the RDDC, 13 loft condos are to be constructed at Washington Square by American Site Developers. Unit pricing is not available nor is a construction completion date. Company officials could not be reached for details.

If you’re a single professional with a knack for high-tech, high-fashion, and high prestige, loft apartments may just be for you. Expect mortgage-like pricing, but there are many benefits that your money pays for. If you operate a small business, a work-live loft is ideal as you have a separate office area to bring clients into, closed off from the rest of your living area.

Keep your eyes peeled to the downtown developers, as many other old buildings may begin the conversion process, making them the next offering of loft apartments. It’s exciting to think of the possibilities from which old, architectural buildings can become beautiful places to live with the whole techie lifestyle theme.

Related Links:

Temple Building
Rochester Downtown Development Corporation
Medical Arts Building lofts

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 06:59 PM

Forgot to add--Welcome to our fine little Northeast homesite, blangjr21. Good to have another Rochesterian aboard!!

Tell your friends! It get's might lonely in here being the only guy representin' da Roch! lol

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 07:12 PM

Add these to the growing list of downtown residential properties. It's to be called, "Capron South Lofts."

I have nothing substantial to view on this upcoming project. All I know is that there is slated to be a total of 13 condo's within this building, but have no info on how much they will be priced at. Please read below for a much better description than I can provide.

228 South Ave. -- Capron South Lofts (Coming Soon)
Rochester, NY

Description: UNDER CONSTRUCTION---Lofts with Location. With a goal of welcoming residents in early 2007, American Site Developers have completed Phase I of the redevelopment of this multi-story building on the south side of the Washington Square neighborhood.

Skylights will light the fifth floor residences, and each of the other units will be flooded by the natural light provided by enormous turn-of-the-century window casements. Immediately adjacent to GeVa Theatre, the Lofts are within walking distance of numerous corporate towers, entertainment and restaurant venues, as well as the Genesee River. In addition to striking river and skyline views, residents will enjoy quick access to the Inner Loop and 490.

Amenities: Security, High Speed Internet, Cable Hookup, Balconies, Updated Kitchen, Elevators, ADA compliant, Laundry Hookups

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 07:14 PM

There will be a total of 13 loft-style condo's in the Capron South Lofts. Sorry. I left that out of the original article.

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 07:17 PM

This article could have been written for both Rochester and Buffalo (from the D&C):

The Key to ‘Re-Creating’ Downtown is More People
June 28, 2005

In the early 1990s, then Rochester City Councilman Gary Muldoon led a one-person campaign against downtown skyways.'I understand why people want them,' he said recently, after an expert panel recommended that we get rid of them. 'They are convenient and very nice,' especially in very hot or icy weather. 'But they take people off the streets,' killing street activity and storefront retail. And that's pretty much what happened along Main Street.The skyways 'add to the cocooning that's going on in our society,' Muldoon says. And if you're going to have a vital town center, people have to get out of their cocoons and interact.

Now that the Urban Land Institute has agreed with him, Muldoon jokes that he may have 'I told you so' chiseled into his gravestone.Getting rid of the skyways has always seemed like a smart idea to me, too, so I was pleased to see it included in the institute's list of suggestions. In 10 years, or maybe 15, we'll know if today's ripples of new construction and sudden splashes of ideas were the start of a downtown re-creation.Clearly, something is happening. There is at least a mini-housing boom under way, especially in the East End area, where Sagamore on East is selling high-end penthouse units. Symphony Place, Chevy Place, and the well-established Grove Place are thriving.

There is additional new housing in the Water Street area, the St. Paul Quarter, and in the Cascade District off West Main Street. Corn Hill Landing, under construction, will add more units to the mix, as will Capron South Lofts, at South Avenue and the Inner Loop.

In this context, the report may tell us something about where we are heading - or where we could be heading.The institute, based in Washington, D.C., has recommended transformative projects in more than 400 communities around the world. The panel used the word 're-create' to describe its plans for downtown Rochester - a sweeping series of changes that would breathe new life into the city and connect the east and west sides, now separated by empty spaces along Main Street. The panel says the city should demolish Midtown, except for the tower and the Euclid Building and fill in the vacant space with a park and new housing, convert the former Sibley's store to apartments, and add housing, retail and maybe an elementary school at St. Joseph's Square.

The Urban Institute also recommended building the transit center, part of the proposed Renaissance Center complex, above, not below, ground. It recommended against a casino, noting that casinos are designed to keep people off the streets and often have a negative impact on their neighbors. It recommended relocating the small Midtown Plaza stores to Main Street storefronts.

And most important, the panel creating a City Center Authority - with city and county officials included, but with a strong private sector presence - with the power to set priorities and drive developments forward. 'I found the suggestions almost startling,' says Jim Costanza, who co-owns the Temple Building, which now houses loft apartments, near the Liberty Pole. 'It seemed so accurate about what we need.' It is too soon to know if we have reached a turning point, but clearly - and often quietly - a new center city has started to emerge. And finally, people have started to understand that to make downtown work, we need to put more people on the streets - not help them get off the streets.

Malo

August 5th, 2005, 07:32 PM

Blangjr21, do you have any visuals on the proposed work they'll be doing down in Charlotte? This is all I've picked up so far:

Mayor William A. Johnson, Jr. today announced the selection of The Charlotte Harbor Group, a joint venture to be formed between local real estate developer Maplestar Development Company, and internationally prominent Lehman Brothers, as Master Developers for City-owned lands in the Port of Rochester.

The Charlotte Harbor Group was selected from responses to an advertised Request For Qualifications (RFP). They were chosen based upon the strengths of the nationally acclaimed finance, development and consulting team that they assembled for this project, and the vision they share with the community for the future of the Harbor area.

Speaking in reference to the quality of the development team, Brian Prince, President of Maplestar Development Company said, "Our global team has a foundation of local commitment that truly is inspired by community development objectives, as well as economic sustainability. Our team's current business activities, including the synergies with the Toronto-Rochester High Speed Ferry, add significant excitement to the potential development of the Port of Rochester."

Christopher McKenna, a Senior Vice President at Lehman Brothers stated, "We are excited and intrigued by the undeveloped waterfront in Rochester, NY. We look forward to being a part of the revitalization of that area!"

This vision foresees the Charlotte Harbor area of Rochester as a world-class waterfront destination - - a mixed-use community anchored by a recreational harbor and international ferry service, sustained by a community of residents and office workers, and energized by quality entertainment, food, recreation, and services.

A variety of housing types, including apartments, condominiums, live/work units, and townhouses would be woven together with walkable streets, parks and plazas. A "lifestyle center" is envisioned to play host to indoor and outdoor dining, festivals, events, destination shopping, and healthy recreational activities.

The year-round bustle of the ferry terminal, a critical mass of new Charlotte residents, and a local daytime office community will fill streets and businesses with people seven days a week, throughout each of the four seasons.

The world-class development team, led by Maplestar and Lehman Brothers, also includes Urban Strategies from Toronto, Icon Architecture from Boston, Smithgroup JJR from Madison, Wisconsin, and both ZHA and ZVA, market consultants from Annapolis, Maryland and Clinton, New Jersey.

These firms have been involved in successful projects across the nation such as Celebration in Florida, Baltimore's Inner Harbor, the Times Square Revitalization, Cleveland's Waterfront, London's Docklands, as well as developments in Charleston, South Carolina and Portland Maine, just to name a few.

The team also has Great Lakes development experience including Chicago's Navy Pier, Toronto's Waterfront Plan, and Racine, Wisconsin. Additionally, they have previous experience in the Rochester area's waterfront planning as well.

Mayor Johnson noted that "the depth of this development team, including the outstanding reputation of Lehman Brothers and the strong local commitment from Maplestar, combined with the outstanding market capabilities of their mid-coast consultants, and the incredibly respectable international architects and planners who will be involved with this project, reinforces our long-held belief in the potential of the Charlotte Harbor area and further validates the appropriateness of the investments we have been making."

Donald Zuchelli, Principal of ZHA, one of the preeminent marketing analyst companies in the nation with extensive experience in waterfront development, has stated his belief that "the project can be uniquely branded based upon the high speed ferry, its link to Toronto, an innovative mix of uses, and high quality urban design. We look forward to working with the City of Rochester and The Charlotte Harbor Group in applying lessons learned from our experiences in this type of mixed-use traditional neighborhood design."

With its designation as Master Developer, the Charlotte Harbor Group will work together this fall with the City of Rochester to define the final development mix, specific architectural and engineering designs, and the public approvals that will be necessary to undertake construction. Assuming the necessary approvals, a first phase of the development could start in 2005, with a mix of business and residences available for 2007.

BuffCity

August 5th, 2005, 08:06 PM

Malo,

Good to see you are posting this thread like nuts, to be honest...now we all know so it will certainly give you backbone in discussions.

Sagamore looks awsome, and I'm sure there are people in the city who would infill if they build this stuff.

Now that there seems to be atleast 2 full Rochesterians posting here this thread will have life...and I will post what I find as well.

I figured that a Rochester Thread as a sticky was a good idea...so thanks to Jmancuso it was initiated.

blangjr21

August 6th, 2005, 04:49 AM

I'm here to stay Malo! And as promised some pictures and proposals for the Charlotte area...

http://www.portofrochester.com/IM001633.jpg

http://www.portofrochester.com/IM001718.jpg

http://www.portofrochester.com/IM001719.jpg

http://www.portofrochester.com/IM001721.jpg

http://www.portofrochester.com/images/Charlotte4.jpg

Thats all I got/All I could really find, a good outlook on what they want the Lake Avenue, Charlotte, and all of that area of the city. It looks as if they want to build some new Apartments/Townhouses north of the Ferry terminal, with some boat slips and a new marina. The Patrick O'Rourke Bridge was just recently finished, and it looks great, its a four lane bridge over the Genesee. Looking really good so far, but lots of things left to finish.

BuffCity

August 6th, 2005, 06:13 PM

thats a nice area of Rochester, it almost seems (non-NY)

MasonsInquiries

August 7th, 2005, 05:13 PM

that project is going to look beautiful when it's done!! wow, VERY nice!

BuffCity

August 7th, 2005, 06:26 PM

although I'm not in favor of public ownership of the Ferry, I must say thats how Im getting to Toronto in late September. If the service could be eased, perhaps more convenient and a little more rider friendly, I'll bet alot of people will use this thing...but as of now it still has yet to click completely with the city and metro as far as support.

blangjr21

August 8th, 2005, 02:45 AM

I wouldn't be too quick to say support isn't here...nobody wants to see it fail, thats for sure, but not many people wanted it owned publicly (and who could blame them!).

On that note, I work at Wegmans Inc. and we just started selling the fast ferry tickets, its incredible how many we have sold recently...impressive to say the least.

Malo

August 8th, 2005, 05:24 PM

steel

August 8th, 2005, 05:31 PM

I wanted to take this opportunity to publicly thank Jmancuso and BuffCity for getting this thread up and running. It was an idea that was long overdue, IMO. You guy's ROCK!

blangjr21, I'm very happy to hear you say that you're in this for the long haul. We need more Rochester boyz in these Northeast threads. The Buffalo guy's represent their city very well. They are knowledgeable, excited, intelligent, and deeply committed to their city, and for that I have a profound amount of respect--especially when one considers the lack of respect that Buffalo gets around the country.

Perhaps you and I could chip in and buy some computers for some of the other Rochesterians, so that they too can be a part of this discussionary trend...Who knows, it may work...lol

Getting this thread up is your first step to greatness. The only reason Buffalo gets so much space on the board is that a few people post development and picture threads which attract other people who then post their stuff and it all builds untill you have a good strong base reping your city. I owuld recommend you do the same on SSP and on UrbanPlanet.

Malo

August 8th, 2005, 05:37 PM

thats a nice area of Rochester, it almost seems (non-NY)

It's an absolute gem of an area, and the fact that it is part of the city proper, makes it that much more exciting. What I have never understood, is why the city (until now) didn't capitalize on developing this area. You have the lake right there, its easy to get to, and you certainly have the public interest.

To be fair, there were a number of years when you had health issues surrounding the water quality of Lake Ontario, and I'm sure that, because it took many years to get that situation straightened out, many people saw Charlotte as a liability rather than an asset. Many of the buildings that housed businesses there fell into disrepair, and it didn't help that if you did go down there for some R&R, the only places to eat were sleazy, run-down burger joints, an Abbotts (that is always crowded), and of course the Penny Arcade with its motorcycle gang clientele. Not exactly "fun for the whole family."

It's fun and exciting to see Rochester finally put some thought and care into an area that has long been neglected. What they may finally be figuring out, is that this section of Rochester could be a huge summer destination, not only for the residents of the city and near suburbs, but for all of WNY. Gee, what a capital idea!

Malo

August 8th, 2005, 06:02 PM

Thats all I got/All I could really find, a good outlook on what they want the Lake Avenue, Charlotte, and all of that area of the city. It looks as if they want to build some new Apartments/Townhouses north of the Ferry terminal, with some boat slips and a new marina. The Patrick O'Rourke Bridge was just recently finished, and it looks great, its a four lane bridge over the Genesee. Looking really good so far, but lots of things left to finish.

Charlotte could be the new "place to be" if the developers don't get "head-up-their-ass-itis." I can envision deluxe condo's with picture book views of the lake, or a number of Sagamore East kind of buildings, with luxury apartments and condo's. High end residences, with high and middle end shopping. Good Italian, French, and American cuisine restaurants. Art fairs. Parades. Etc... Something to liven up the area and make it a place to see and be seen.

They could have high-rise condo's, kind of like what they've built in Toronto and Chicago, with fantastic views of both the lake and the city itself. They would have to keep them off to either side of Lake Ave., so as to not block the beach goer's access to the lake, or the view from the low-rise condo's, but I'd be willing to bet that the average person who doesn't necessarily want or need a big house in the 'burbs, or the person who doesn't really like the whole "downtown condo scene," would be particularly amenable to this kind of living arrangement.

Beyond that, the houses along the lake are big and beautiful, and are remnants of a by-gone age when it was very fashionable and desireable to live along Lake Ontario, and you still have a good mixture of middle-class residents there, as well as a few very upscale houses and people who have not allowed their neighbourhood to go to seed. Bringing back a higher-income resident would get the higher-end stores to surround them, knowing that they have the financial means to buy the goods they sell. The same with the restaurant trade. The good people of WNY would follow..

People would actually want to come to Rochester. Imagine that! On the same street that would take them to a Red Wings game, or a Rhino's game at their new MLS stadium--they could then leave those fine hallowed halls of sportsdom and make their way to the High Falls, or continue on to Charlotte for a good dinner, some shopping, and a stroll along the many new and beautiful walkways along both the lake and the river. Kinda get's me all misty-eyed. Give me a moment....

I'm better now.

steel

August 8th, 2005, 06:27 PM

BuffCity

August 8th, 2005, 06:34 PM

you know...looking at how the Ferry goes from Rochester to Toronto, who is to say the Rochester developers won't all of a sudden have some competition from Toronto developers? I mean, it's like a strategic move that would be great to see...own both sides for retail and residential...duhhh?!

Not saying Rochester won't move on this, infact Charlotte is busy as hell now, alot busier than what I remember it before. The Beach is nice, there are plenty of bars and pubs, restaurants and snackshops...it's a day in itself.

I'm glad Rochester is forming a waterfront worth talking about, we go there from time to time and I have a friend who lives right there...I guess it's the spot to be according to her.

I have to get a Ferry Ticket to Toronto and back for September 26th...will it still be running and what are the charges?

Malo

August 8th, 2005, 09:19 PM

Is there a riverwalk from the Ferry area to downtown? Is the river accessible over this distance. It seems to me a good strategy for Roch would be to develope a strong pedestrian and retail business freindly link along the entire river which connects downtown to the lake. Is that a possibility?

Steel, I don't see a riverwalk to downtown as a viable entity, mainly because of the distance from where the Ferry is docked in Charlotte, to the downtown area. You have to be looking at 10 miles distance from one another, and the cost would be prohibitively expensive, due to the amount of residential property that would be in the way along that route.

steel

August 8th, 2005, 09:24 PM

Steel, I don't see a riverwalk to downtown as a viable entity, mainly because of the distance from where the Ferry is docked in Charlotte, to the downtown area. You have to be looking at 10 miles distance from one another, and the cost would be prohibitively expensive, due to the amount of residential property that would be in the way along that route.

It could be a great bike route through the city to the lake though. The River and the Lake are Rchester's great assets. I notice that some of the river bank is quite steep and deep. These areas could be a beautiful urban park / nature area.

blangjr21

August 8th, 2005, 10:04 PM

To answer a question, there definitely is a bike path that follows along the Genesee River Gorge, through Seneca Park, the lower falls/turning pool area, and then to downtown. It's interesting that you would propose a riverwalk, but it's just not feasible because of the distance.

That vision though of visiting a Rhinos or Wings game and then going up north to the lake would be great, but a lot of work needs to be done to Lake Avenue to change that vision, in some parts it is bad news...and plus with all the Kodak property "Re-development" can anyone see this becoming a less traveled road.

I'm not saying that it would happen, but imagine 10 years from now a small industrial area at the corner of Lake and Ridge, what once was Kodak, it could happen, especially the way the people run that company. How can Fuji make all this money and have its American manufacturing in Greer S.C., oh yeah, because Kodak Execs. were too busy commuting to rochester every day in their corporate jets. Just an unbelievably bad way to run a business.

Anyways now that I'm off that horse, I can definitely see the University of Rochester/Strong Health complex growing rapidly in the next 5-10 years, and becoming a regional entity. They employ almost 24000 employees now, I can't imagine that number not going above 30,000 in the near future with the growth/expansion they are experiencing. A truly great asset to the community.

Which brings up the new Wilmont (I believe) Cancer Center expansion...I think that that will be going up soon.

blangjr21

August 8th, 2005, 10:17 PM

Just found this on the Democrat and Chronicles website:

Slaughter touts $400,000 for project on banks of Genesee

Jeffrey Blackwell
Staff writer

(August 8, 2005) — Congresswoman Louise Slaughter, D-Fairport, announced this morning funding approved for $20.2 million in federal transportation projects within her district.

The money approved last week by Congress in the six-year $286 billion highway and transportation bill includes funding for several local projects, including Brooks Landing development along the Genesee River near the University of Rochester.

The bill includes $400,000 for the project, according to a database compiled by Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonpartisan budget watchdog group.

Brooks Landing is a $17.2 million riverfront development plan that includes a four-story hotel, a restaurant, a public boardwalk and boat-docking facilities, as well as about 20,000 to 25,000 square feet of commercial and office space. It would be built near the end of the pedestrian bridge linking the UR River Campus to the 19th Ward.

The federal money is to be used to help pay for the reconstruction of Plymouth Avenue and improved vehicle and pedestrian access.

"This project has been on the drawing board in one way or another for 20 years," Slaughter said. "The (area's) current makeup belies the extraordinarily wonderful neighborhood that exists all around it. This project will flip that 180 degrees and make this area the community anchor."

Slaughter had a news conference this morning at the site of the development. It also was attended by Mayor William A. Johnson Jr.

She also announced funding for other projects within the 28th District, which includes parts of Monroe, Orleans, Niagara and Erie counties.

# The Inner Loop Improvement project is to receive $1.92 million for design and environmental studies exploring the possibility of raising portions of the highway from Clinton Avenue to East Main Street.

# The Erie Canal Aqueduct project is to receive $1.2 million to help turn the historic downtown aqueduct into a walkway and tourist attraction. The money is to be used for design and construction.

# The University Avenue ARTWalk project is to receive $1.6 million for the reconstruction of University Avenue between Goodman and Union streets. It also is to help fund extension of ARTWalk north and south of University Avenue, connecting the Village Gate shops and restaurants with the Rochester Museum and Science Center.

# The Monroe County Intelligent Transportation System is to receive $720,000 to help complete the countywide traffic management system.

I'd say the most important news is one of the following:
1) Brooks Landing-Would really improve the southern portion of Rochester, especially with the growth of the University of Rochester. Could help to facilitate some infill of the younger generations into a neighborhood that has really fallen in recent years.

2) Inner Loop Studies-Talking about raising some of the Inner Loop, often referred to as "Rochesters great mistake" I'd have to agree. It is encouraging though to hear that we may be raising at least some portions, if not all of it. It's an interesting drive if you ever have the time, but I'd definitely agree with removing it!

3) Erie Aquaduct- A great debate has become recently over whether or not they will fill in the tunnel that was once the Erie Canal Aquaduct downtown. I believe there was also talk of creating a White Water adventure ride downtown, with our interesting layout of the Genesee through Downtown.

I'm encouraged! And I'll drink to that :cheers:

Malo

August 8th, 2005, 10:36 PM

blangjr21--why the city has never thought to bring the area around Lake and Driving Park up to a level that would encourage and promote tourism, is beyond me.

You have absolutely gorgeous terrain all through that area around Maplewood Park, and yet it just sits there in the background. I know people that have lived in Rochester all their lives, and they don't know a thing about it being there! I know that RG&E (years ago) had a plant down there, but I haven't been down around there for 20 years of so. Also, the same thing holds true for the terrain around Lake Ave. and Hanford Landing Road. There has to be a 200+ foot drop-off going down to the Genessee River.

As a matter of fact, if anyone has pictures of the Genessee River as it runs through the north side of the city (not downtown pix), please post them so that everyone can get an idea of just what spectacular assets Rochester has, but does nothing with.

Perhaps its just been a monetary issue that has held the city back from promoting its beauty and grandeur to the rest of WNY and the nation...

blangjr21

August 8th, 2005, 10:52 PM

http://www.rocpic.com/pod/pod102503.jpg

http://www.naturalhighs.net/waterfalls/falls/lgpic/roclower0077.jpg

http://www.bcampbell.org/Rochester/GenVal.JPG

http://www.bcampbell.org/Rochester/DrPark.JPG

http://www.bcampbell.org/Rochester/VetBridge.JPG

Malo

August 8th, 2005, 11:44 PM

To look at those pictures and see the natural beauty that presents itself in our fair city, and then to not run and tell everyone you can get your hands on about it, to me, is a crying shame.

Why are there no boat rides down the Genesee? How about a fishing tournament? How about area's where one could pull over and take pictures? How about the city actually capitalizing on an asset that very few cities in this country can match?

BuffCity

August 9th, 2005, 07:19 AM

small commuter boats like on the Thames in London would be really cool.

Malo

August 9th, 2005, 08:01 PM

A bit more on Charlotte:

City receives 5 proposals for Port of Rochester development

WHEC-TV
Rochester, NYUSA - Friday was the deadline for companies to submit proposals for redeveloping the Port of Rochester. The city has been through this before but the deal was scuttled when the fast ferry shut down last year. Now it's at it again.

The city wants to develop 30 acres of land around the terminal creating what its plan calls an urban waterfront village. One of the areas they can develop is next to the terminal building, which right now is a gravel parking lot. One of the ideas is to build a hotel or marina.

On Friday NEWS 10NBC learned the city has received at last 5 proposals. It’s up to the city to choose one of them and then develop what the port will look like. Some want to see major development while others like charlotte the way it is.

“I'd love to see a casino down here. I'm not a gambler per se just the people it would draw, the income it would generate,” said Charlotte resident Mary Conjert.

“It probably could be done tasteful but I kind of like it simple,” said Charlotte resident Russ Conjert. (Russ then left the interviewer to get to his night English class at Charlotte Middle School. Russ, upon leaving, said; "I had know ID-a that this hole English thing was going to be so diffikult.")

But what people want is precisely why some experts say the port development won't work. “I don’t' think you're going to get a lot of interest from developers when it comes to Charlotte. It's not that easy to get to. It’s very seasonal and it's not that attractive especially when you compare it to the Finger Lakes and other alternatives,” said RIT Business Professor Bob Barbato. (Professor Barbato, a Rochester native, has had his NYS drivers license taken away recently, and any place other than Henrietta seems "far away" to him. Barbato went on to say; "But hey, what do I know, I'm kinda seasonal myself, and not all that attractive either. Plus, I'm a typical Rochesterian, and no matter what, I always try to see only the negative side of any really good ideas.")

The history of port development is about as up and down as the ferry service. In the fall of 2003 the city awarded the rights to develop 30 acres of port land to Maple Star, a company owned by the same men who owned the ferry. Plans included a marina, a hotel and parking lot but when the ferry shut down last September the city cut off all negotiations. Now it's back to square one.

“The city has done a lot and probably can't do a whole lot more in order to make it more attractive.What they can't change and what they won't change is how easy it is to get to. It's not that easy to get there,” said Barbato. (Barbato went on to say; "Sure, Charlotte is not all that easy to get to, which is why I keep complaining about it like an old woman--certainly not as easy to get to as my "dealer" over there on Clifford Avenue. Hell, my guy is not only easy to get to, he delivers!")

The city won’t say if any of the five proposals are from local firms. The last time around they only got one proposal and getting five this time shows the port has merit and is worth the investment.

Malo

August 10th, 2005, 08:11 PM

This link will give you at least a halfway-decent view of what to expect from the Temple Building project.

http://www.templebuilding.com/

steel

August 10th, 2005, 08:25 PM

That temple building is a pretty sweet project. How many apartments will it have?

BuffCity

August 10th, 2005, 09:07 PM

Very nice...thats what Rochester needs.

BuffCity

August 15th, 2005, 04:15 PM

I sent that link to a bunch of co-workers, now they are asking about downtown Rochester alot, saying how nice it could be if there was more to do there. They said it's nice to see that people with money would wanna live in the city core.

Malo

August 25th, 2005, 12:18 AM

News about the old Irondequoit Mall (now the Medley Centre)and how consensus of 'make it happen' greets idea for Medley Centre..

Alan Morrell
Staff writer

(August 24, 2005) — Residents had a chance Tuesday night to comment on plans to build a Target store in the Medley Centre parking lot in Irondequoit, which town officials hope will revitalize the beleaguered mall.

Seven people gave their opinions, along with town officials. The consensus: a big thumbs-up.

"If they shoot this down, they might as well say 'Forget about (the mall),' because who's going to want to come here?" said Sam Guagliardo, 41, of Titus Avenue. "People want to see something happening in this area. ... Let's make it happen."

Passero Associates, an engineering and architectural company, announced Target's plans on Monday. The 127,000-square-foot freestanding store would be built in the southwest corner of the mall parking lot and create 150 to 200 jobs, said John Caruso, a Passero vice president.

Tuesday's meeting was for an application to amend a special-use permit so Target could build the store. Town Board members tabled the application until they could get more information about issues such as traffic.

Developers hope to start construction Oct. 1 and open the store by September 2006.

Jim Frascati, an Irondequoit police officer who owns a travel company and security company, called Target's proposal a "great opportunity." He said he plans to open one of his businesses in the Medley Centre.

"You shouldn't have to drive to Eastview Mall to go to a Target store," he said. "You should be able to do so in Irondequoit."

Joe Staffieri of Angelica, Allegany County, said he plans to open a Pizza Stop restaurant in the Medley Centre on Oct. 3. Staffieri, who owns two other Pizza Stops in Rochester, said he has confidence in the mall.

"There's been more positive talk about this Medley Centre in the past five months than there was in the past five years," he said. "I think Irondequoit is going to be very proud."

Former Town Board member Richard Barone said Target, as a freestanding building, would draw customers from stores in the mall. Staffieri disagreed.

"The rising tide is going to lift all ships," he said. "You bring people in, they're all going to make money."

Other residents talked about taking advantage of the mall's proximity to the Port of Rochester and passengers arriving via the fast ferry.

Bersin Properties bought the 15-year-old mall from an insurance company for $5.2 million in May. At the time, Bersin officials said the company would spend $44 million to upgrade and redesign the property.

Adam Bersin, president of the company, said Monday that the mall is about 70 percent vacant.

Town approval of Target could accelerate other deals for the mall, Bersin said.

"We're close to a couple of major deals and Target will put them over the top," Bersin said Tuesday. "The interest of Target only makes them that much more confident in the future of the mall." He wouldn't name the other national retailers.

Meanwhile, the one major new store that has committed to the new mall has postponed its opening. Steve & Barry's University Sportswear had been expected to open by the end of this month.

The discount retailer will locate in the former J.C. Penney slot, but work on the store has been delayed because of contractor issues, said Rick Gomes, director of media relations for the Long Island-based retailer.

The proposed Target is a selling point to other retailers, Bersin said, because it would be only 250 feet away from the entrance to Kaufmann's.

That would be closer to the mall than the Target next to the Mall at Greece Ridge Center.

BuffCity

August 25th, 2005, 03:47 AM

if Target wasnt owned by the French, and was more veteran and troop supportive (they are against supporting either) I would be glad to see them...now I just like Kmart.

Malo

August 25th, 2005, 10:39 PM

Target has its headquarters in Minneapolis, and I believe they're still owned locally.

BuffCity

August 26th, 2005, 12:05 AM

I would check that...either way, if you dont support the troops or dont support veterans....FUCK em'!!!

Malo

August 30th, 2005, 10:37 PM

I would check that...either way, if you dont support the troops or dont support veterans....FUCK em'!!!

Now THAT I agree with :)

steel

August 30th, 2005, 11:03 PM

if Target wasnt owned by the French, and was more veteran and troop supportive (they are against supporting either) I would be glad to see them...now I just like Kmart.

The Target story about them being owned by the French and not supporting the American Veterans is a phony internet story generated by a right wing wack job. It can be easily checked out and it is common knowledge that Target is a Minneapolis company and that they support many many causes being one of the most generous corporate citizens in this country.

The real people who harm our troops and our country are the people who thrive on this kind of divisiveness and lies to further their agenda.

BuffCity

August 31st, 2005, 04:47 AM

if its a fake I'll go buy towels and shampoo tomorrow...lol

steel

August 31st, 2005, 06:02 AM

if its a fake I'll go buy towels and shampoo tomorrow...lol

It is fake.

Read here:

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/t/target-viet.htm

Malo

August 31st, 2005, 05:43 PM

if its a fake I'll go buy towels and shampoo tomorrow...lol

So....what kind of towels did ya buy, and how well does that shampoo work that you bought? lol

BuffCity

August 31st, 2005, 06:07 PM

Well I havent let the Germans in the house, and I have yet to start painting my feet or eating cusine...lol

Malo

September 6th, 2005, 09:22 PM

Good signs, both...lol

ROCguy

September 8th, 2005, 03:01 AM

Here are some somewhat final plans for Rennaissance square in Downtown Rochester. Here's the article that also has pictures of the architect's sketches....Rennaissance Sqauare Plans (http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050907/NEWS01/50907007)

The article is a little vague to say the least, but the sketches look great and look as though RennSquare could be a huge boost for downtown.

Malo

September 8th, 2005, 07:04 PM

I was really hoping for something a bit better than scribblings that look as though they were drawn on the back of a napkin...lol

I know this initial design will be re-done over and over many times in the next couple of years, but my first impression is one of a design that belongs in Atlanta, not Rochester. Especially with all of the clear glass over the top that clearly defines what the new construction will be. Does Moshe not know what kind of snowfall amounts we get every year? And how hard it will be to keep that clean?

Also, ROC guy, is there still widespread support/lack of, for the bus terminal, or is it just me that thinks there isn't, due to every time I read about this project in the D&C, the mere mention of it always includes the following phrases; " has drawn the most skepticism," or "opponents question," or "bus terminal will slow bus traffic," or the always popular-- "create a facility choked with diesel fumes."

Hell, sounds like a pretty popular idea to me--at least from what the D&C is saying...lol

Malo

September 8th, 2005, 07:17 PM

Well, well, looks like I got the answer already in today's D&C:

Underground terminal out in revised Renaissance Square plans

Gary Craig
Staff writer

(September 8, 2005) — Proposed site layout

The Renaissance Square underground bus terminal is no more.

Renaissance Square lead designer Moshe Safdie unveiled a conceptual design for the downtown project Wednesday evening that scrapped the original bus terminal plans and tackled head-on some questions skeptics had about the bus station.

As well, Renaissance Square became better defined, portrayed in renderings as an airy, well-lit downtown project combining public courtyards, ground-level retail space, gardens and greenery with its three major elements — a Monroe Community College satellite campus, a bus terminal and a performing arts center.

At a public forum that drew about 200 people to the Riverside Convention Center, Safdie acknowledged that most of the issues raised this year about Renaissance Square "were concerning the bus system."

For instance:

Won't an underground bus terminal be dark and oppressive?

Under the renderings shown Wednesday, the terminal moves to ground level and is draped by a glass structure designed to suffuse the facility with natural light.

Would a bus terminal along East Main Street detract from the appeal of Renaissance Square and thwart the hopes to enliven a blighted block at downtown's core?

The design now places the MCC campus and the performing arts center along East Main Street, with the bus terminal running east-west between St. Paul Street and North Clinton Avenue.

The terminal would be located off East Main Street, north of the campus and arts center.

Would commuting time be slowed by the original bus terminal plans, which called for buses to make as many as 11 turns while inside the facility?

As proposed now, the buses would make no more than three turns.

The distance each bus would travel within the terminal is sliced by almost three-quarters from the original plans.

"In a short amount of time, the design team has come a long, long ways," County Executive Maggie Brooks said about the conceptual design. "... I think it's starting to be real for people."

Looking for harmony

Safdie stressed that any architectural designs in the renderings were somewhat premature, and the designers have focused on how best to shoehorn the three projects into the plot of land. He said he was still convinced that there can be a harmony among the campus, arts center and bus terminal that could serve as a catalyst for future downtown development. The campus would be located along East Main Street, adjacent to the Granite Building, with a public courtyard area opening to the downtown thoroughfare. The courtyard would provide an unobstructed view of the historic Edwards Building on St. Paul Street.

"One of our objectives for the new college is to make it a real campus," said MCC President Thomas Flynn.

Bob Weiss, whose family has owned Weiss Jewelers on East Main Street for nearly 60 years, said he was impressed by the concept. Two years ago, he opposed the standalone bus terminal because he thought the Rochester-Genesee Regional Transportation Authority was steamrolling the project through channels with little public input or concern for merchants at the site.

Now, Weiss said, he hopes to see the family jewelry store remain as a retail operation in Renaissance Square. The project, he said, could breathe new life into downtown's dormant retail sector.

"Anybody who can get themselves a foothold into the (project) will be giving themselves a retail advantage," he said.

Tweaking still needed

Brooks said the performing arts center still remains a component in need of definition. Clearly, she said, a 2,800-seat facility would be part of the plans, but designers have to decide what else would be best for the facility.

Safdie agreed, saying planners were talking to the arts community to determine how many more theaters should be part of Renaissance Square.

Planners hope to have firmer cost estimates for Renaissance Square in a month. The project is now estimated to cost $230 million, and about $160 million has been committed.

Lift Line protest

At Wednesday's forum, a group of about 50 disabled residents and advocates protested because of RGRTA's decision this year to cut its Lift Line services for disabled riders to a Henrietta apartment complex, Stonewood Village.

The protesters began chanting at the forum's start and, when they would not relent, the forum was moved to another room at the convention center.

GCRAIG@DemocratandChronicle.com

steel

September 8th, 2005, 07:26 PM

Pictures Please !

Malo

September 9th, 2005, 05:40 PM

Try this: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050908/NEWS01/309080001&SearchID=73219841841081

ROCguy

September 9th, 2005, 09:20 PM

sargeantcm

September 10th, 2005, 12:40 AM

Not development per se, but Rochester related so I figured it belongs here.

From the Buffalo News, 09/09/2005

How Kodak Invented The Next Big Thing: The Digital Camera (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050909/1028920.asp)

ROCHESTER - Steven Sasson knew right away in December 1975 that his 8-pound, toaster-size contraption, which captured a black-and-white image on a digital cassette tape at a resolution of .01 megapixels, "was a little bit revolutionary."
When anyone asked, the Eastman Kodak Co. engineer ventured that it would become a commercial reality in 15 to 20 years.

It would be a quarter century, though, before Kodak began to capitalize on Sasson's breakthrough: the first digital camera.

In the meantime, the company that pioneered mass-market photography was busily amassing more than 1,000 digital-imaging patents. Today, almost all digital cameras rely on those inventions.

But Kodak's transition to a new world of photography was hindered by a reluctance to phase out celluloid film, its 20th-century gravy train.

Not until 2001 did Kodak begin selling mass-market digital cameras, though it leapfrogged Sony Corp. and Canon Inc. in 2004 for the lead in U.S. digital camera sales.

In the meantime, Sasson's fanciful alternative has gone from scientific curiosity to high-end novelty to America's most popular electronics gift, giving him unfamiliar star power late in his career and a few worries about his role in the steamroller effects of innovation.

After all, the toll of the digital-photography revolution on Kodak's work force "is enormous," he noted.

"Every once in a while," the garrulous, good-natured Sasson joked, "some of my friends say they're going to put my statue up at Kodak Park" - the mammoth but now rapidly shrinking film-manufacturing hub that George Eastman began erecting here in the late 1800s.

Sasson, now 55, never imagined as a relatively new Kodak hire in 1975 all the dazzling ingredients that have, in just a few years, put digital cameras in 50 percent of American households: fiber optics, the Internet, personal computers, home printers.

His invention began with a 30-second conversation.

Sasson, who'd recently earned a master's in electrical engineering, said his supervisor, Gareth Lloyd, gave him a "very broad assignment: He just said, "Could we build a camera using solid-state imagers?'" - a new type of electronic sensor known as a charge coupled device, or CCD, that gathers optical information.

Finding the literature on digital imaging to be virtually blank - Texas Instruments Inc. had designed a filmless but analog-based electronic camera in 1972 - Sasson drew on whatever wizardry was available: an analog-to-digital converter adapted from Motorola Inc. components, a Kodak movie-camera lens and the tiny CCD chips introduced by Fairchild Semiconductor in 1973.

He set about constructing the digital circuitry from scratch, relying on oscilloscope measurements to guide him. There were no images to look at until the entire prototype was put together.

Completing their final voltage-variation test in December 1975, Sasson and his chief technician, Jim Schueckler, persuaded a lab assistant to pose for them. The image took 23 seconds to record onto the cassette and another 23 seconds to read off a playback unit onto a television. Then it popped up on the screen.

"You could see the silhouette of her hair," Sasson said. But her face was a blur of static. "She was less than happy with the photograph and left, saying "You need work,'" he said.

But an overjoyed Sasson already knew the solution: By simply reversing a set of wires, the assistant's face was restored.

Sasson's show-and-tell presentations over the next year "met with a lot of curiosity, some annoyance," he said. "Many times people talked about all the reasons why it would never happen. But there were many people that quietly looked at it and said, "Boy, it's a long time, but I don't see that it won't happen.'

When Sony marketed the first filmless camera in 1981, a Mavica that worked off magnetic disks, Sasson thought: "Exciting development, wrong approach." It was based on television technology, "which had inherent limitations in image quality," he said.

Besides, Kodak wouldn't be rushed.

Considering that Eastman's $1 Brownie camera turned photography into a hobby for the masses way back in 1900, some critics insist Kodak discovered the "next big thing" and didn't bring it out quickly enough, letting Japanese rivals drive the digital-camera market.

The story is reminiscent of one of technology's biggest fumbles: In the 1970s, Xerox Corp. researchers in Silicon Valley invented seminal aspects of personal computing that were virtually ignored by the parent company and ultimately used by others.

But Chris Chute, a photography analyst at research firm IDC in Framingham, Mass., views Kodak as an easy target because it "keeps all doors open as long as possible until the real opportunities start to shape themselves."

Unquestionably, though, Kodak's dash to transform itself into a digital heavyweight has left a painful trail: Tumbling sales of film, which still accounts for the bulk of its profits, will soon drop its global payroll below 50,000 employees from a peak of 145,300 in 1988.

While most of Sasson's career has revolved around finding ways to capture, store, transmit and manipulate digital images, he now specializes in protecting Kodak's intellectual property.

His prototype will form the root of historical arguments against Sony in an upcoming patent-infringement trial over Kodak's digital-camera inventions from 1987 to 2003.

In looking back at Kodak's long road to the digital age, Sasson doesn't believe his employer ultimately was late to the game.

"As much as other people may have introduced cameras earlier, I submit those cameras probably were not very easy to use - or very good by image-quality standards," he said. "The mission is the same as George Eastman's: Take this very important art and turn it into something "as convenient as the pencil.'"

ROCguy

September 10th, 2005, 12:54 AM

Malo

September 13th, 2005, 09:50 PM

The problem, as I see it, is Rochesters' never ending, never ceasing, always evident--conservatism. It touches every aspect of that city, and while it has helped shape Rochester and made it the center for a goodly number of manufactured products--alot of the ideas that were invented there, were in fact initiated and put into service somewhere else. Unlike the risks that were taken by, and the lack of conservatism shown by, a company like Paychexx. Something that hasn't sprung up since..

ROCguy

September 14th, 2005, 01:05 AM

^^ Has monroe county ever not voted Democrat? I had always thought of Rochester as probably the most liberal great lakes city after Chicago. The city at least.

steel

September 14th, 2005, 02:39 AM

^^ Everyone at kodak and probalby Rochester knows that. It is such a damn shame that sony gets all the credit. Kodak essentially invented ALL photography, and have been getting screwed over for the past 20 years because of it. Now they don't even get credit for inventing digital photography? How screwed up.

Xerox invented the graphic mouse driven computer interface and sold it dirt cheap to Apple. Microsoft then copied it and made Seattle into a major city and a lot of wealthy people. too bad for Roch that Xerox was so short sighted.

Just imagin. Instead of the Microsoft windows operating system it was the Xerox operating system.

ROCguy

September 14th, 2005, 02:40 AM

Xerox operating system sounds cooler. lol

Malo

September 15th, 2005, 01:36 AM

^^ Has monroe county ever not voted Democrat? I had always thought of Rochester as probably the most liberal great lakes city after Chicago. The city at least.

Rochester has (almost) always voted Democratic. That notwithstanding, both Rochester and WNY are known to be amongst the most conservative area's of the country.

Look at Rochester businesses over the years. Bausch & Lomb invented the "contact"--only to fail to capitalize on its invention and have a number of other companies out-manuever and out-market them. There are many examples, and Steel and mine are just the tip of the iceberg.

As far as the voting record of Monroe County goes--unlike the biggest city within its borders--the county is a whole other political story. It is one of the few counties in this country that has been solidly Republican for as long as anyone can remember...

ROCguy

September 15th, 2005, 02:04 AM

Monroe County population-735,000

Rochester City Population-219,000

Only about 1 in three of monroe county residents live in the city, which is overwhelmingly democratic 3-1. Monroe county has always gone blue. I know that when I was in Greece last summer, I saw at least half the houses on most streets with Kerry/Edwards signs in their yards. I'm just not seeing the ultra conservativness of Rochester. I wouldn't call it an ultra liberal area either. I have always considered it very moderate.

BuffCity

September 15th, 2005, 06:26 PM

Republicans have always had a strong foot in the door in the county because all the wealth is in the suburbs, and usually the red team is better with taxes...look at the failure of the city of Rochester to keep competitive, yet they all love the blue team. I'm not sure if saying that Monroe county is now Blue or Red, it's definitly a moderate county doe to the suburbs getting stronger and the city getting weaker (voting)

Buffalo is much more blue than Rochester...look how much growing is going on there.

Taxes...Liberals love them, Republicans love to lower them, yet the areas of sustained growth are all pretty much "red-zones".... :eek2:

ROCguy

September 17th, 2005, 01:39 AM

Hey everyone, Rochester needs your vote in the City vs. City forum. It is barely beating ALBUQUERQUE by only two votes. I posted a great aray of pictures, and I think that helped it put it in the lead by a little but still, go support your city/region (does anyone here in the Northeastern forum see a fellow city get beat by a desert crap city?)

ECoastTransplant

September 17th, 2005, 04:33 AM

ROCguy

September 17th, 2005, 05:32 AM

Oh yeah, they basically elected the mayor the other day. Robert (Bob) Duffy won the Democratic primary on Wednesday. He is pretty much gaurenteed the position, because only city residents can vote, and in the city, democrats outnumber republicans 3-1. It will be interesting to see how Duffy's policies change the city, for better or for worse (but hopefully and likely for the better)

ROCguy

September 18th, 2005, 11:54 PM

Rochester a future leader in the Biotech industry? That'd be great.......http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050918/BUSINESS/509180315

sargeantcm

September 19th, 2005, 04:28 AM

Rochester a future leader in the Biotech industry? That'd be great.......http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050918/BUSINESS/509180315

I've also heard about biotech getting a strong foothold in Buffalo (as well as hydrogen research). Hopefully it can take off in both these cities, and we can have a new "silicon valley" to make up for all the past fumbles.

Come on, is there nothing going on as far as development in Rochester? There has to be some kind of announcement at least once/month regarding a new project, start of construction, opening, etc. What gives???

Yeah, there does seem to be a lack of that sort of posting in this forum, at least as compared to the Buffalo ones. However I think it includes some better city-related discussion, which is good enough for me.

BuffCity

September 19th, 2005, 06:24 PM

Biotech and energy research could rebound the region well.

gonna need some tax cuts if this is to be a reality.

ROCguy

September 20th, 2005, 01:07 AM

I've also heard about biotech getting a strong foothold in Buffalo (as well as hydrogen research). Hopefully it can take off in both these cities, and we can have a new "silicon valley" to make up for all the past fumbles.

Amen to that.... So does anyone have any opinion on the newly essentialy elected mayor of Rochester?

BuffCity

September 20th, 2005, 04:24 AM

Duffy will be a good mayor...Johnson is a lost soul...and hes an idiot.

either way, someone has some work to do.

ROCguy

September 20th, 2005, 11:18 PM

I have to say that while I was a Duffy fan, I'm surprised that citizens of the city voted for him. With the city's public schools being a top issue, his kids go to school in Brighton, I can't say that I blame him seeing as Brighton CSD is 5th in the country, but still, he lives in the city, he is going to be mayor of the city, his kids should probably go to school in the city... Even if it were a private schoo.

BuffCity

September 21st, 2005, 02:36 PM

someone just needs to cut the crime down, though usually jobs are the best way overall...and Democrats usually have a tough time getting jobs to come around.

A cop would clean things up a bit...he might be worth his time.

ROCguy

September 21st, 2005, 10:51 PM

^^Yeah, cheif of police is probaby why he was chosen. Rochester needs to bring it's crime down significantly.

Malo

September 22nd, 2005, 12:34 AM

Come on, is there nothing going on as far as development in Rochester? There has to be some kind of announcement at least once/month regarding a new project, start of construction, opening, etc. What gives???

If you go back to the first two pages of this thread I'm pretty sure that you will find what you're looking for in the way of developmental projects. The reason you don't see more about what's happening, is that Rochester is in the throes of electing a new mayor, and alot of the current projects that are on the board right now, are more than likely to stay right there until they figure out just who is gonna run the show...

Plus, it's Western New York. It always takes five years to do something, that in any other city would take two..lol

ROCguy

September 22nd, 2005, 01:10 AM

^^lol. I don't think you have to worry about what projects are getting passed and which aren't. Look up Duffy's agenda, he is going to be mayor. I'm not some super advocate or anything, but, come on, do you really think that the City of Rochester is going to vote in a Republican? It wouldn't be a bad thing, but it wouldn't be very likely to happen at all.

ROCguy

September 22nd, 2005, 01:24 AM

Holy crap, I gotta know, I'm don't live there right now and I won't for another year and some change, but is the City's housing market speeding up or what? I am seeng more and more beautiful houses, especially in the Browncroft and Park Avenue areas of the city, go up forsale and get bought up in the same month or week all the time on Nothnagle.com.... look at the first listing on this page, it just went up yesterday, and is already pending sale? Is the city the new place to be in Greater Rochester after all these years of absolute suburban movement and suburban hatred of the city?....... here's the page, these were all listed within the past 30 days.......... http://nothnagle.com/property/proplist.asp?VAR_AllowSaveSearch=1&VAR_PropCounty=&PRM_PropertyTypeCode=RES&PRM_Minimum_Price=100000&PRM_Maximum_Price=&VAR_PropCity=Rochester+NE&VAR_PropCity=Rochester+NW&VAR_PropCity=Rochester+SE&VAR_SchoolDistrict=&VAR_Custom4=&PRM_Minimum_Beds=&PRM_Minimum_Baths=&PRM_Minimum_Sqft=&VAR_Acreage=&VAR_FireplaceYesNo=&VAR_FireplaceType=&PRM_Waterfront=&PRM_zipCode=&VAR_NewlyBuiltHomes=&PRM_Status=&VAR_Photo=&VAR_PhotoGallery=&PRM_Minimum_DateListed=8%2F22%2F2005&VAR_PageSize=20

BuffCity

September 22nd, 2005, 08:38 PM

The Corn Hill area is nice...lots of new condo stuff there.

ROCguy

September 23rd, 2005, 01:57 AM

^^ yeah, cornhll landing is nice, just a bit out of place. Cornhill has traditionaly been the area with all of the older historic homes in the city (most being built from the 1830's-1860's) and now it is where all of the new contruction in the city is.

BuffCity

September 23rd, 2005, 08:14 PM

a little History, is there also an Art festival there yearly?

ROCguy

September 23rd, 2005, 09:55 PM

^^ Yup, Corn Hill Arts Festival in July.

ROCguy

September 24th, 2005, 07:59 PM

IT'S ABOUT DAMN TIME........http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050924/BUSINESS/509240315

BuffCity

September 24th, 2005, 08:04 PM

great news...it all starts with food

ROCguy

September 24th, 2005, 08:34 PM

^^ True, the way to ANYONES heart, is throught thier stomach. lol

I say that also because, for years, the only place anyone wanted to go to eat downtown was Dinosaur BBQ, that place is great and has some of the best ribs this side of the mason-dixon line, but the new high-scale restaraunts won't hurt, not at all.

BuffCity

September 26th, 2005, 04:03 AM

man...that place....oh wow, stories I can tell.

ROCguy

September 26th, 2005, 05:08 AM

lol, good stories or bad stories?

BuffCity

September 26th, 2005, 03:08 PM

all are great stories...the place is a riot.

you want food, get pulled pig sandwich here!

ROCguy

September 26th, 2005, 10:03 PM

^^ No, I hate their pulled pork (Of course I hate pulled pork in general) but their RIBS oh man their ribs. Never found any better.

sargeantcm

September 28th, 2005, 03:03 AM

ROCHESTER, New York (AP) -- Wineries in New York are drawing nearly three times as many visitors as a decade ago, making the wine industry the fastest growing sector in agriculture and tourism -- two of the state's biggest economic engines.

Of the 212 wineries that have sprouted from Long Island across to Lake Erie -- there were only 19 in 1975 -- each one had an average of 54 percent more visitors in 2003 than it did three years earlier, according to the latest survey by the New York Agricultural Statistics Service.

The typical winery more than doubled its tasting-room sales, with each visitor spending 49 percent more on average than in 2000, the agency said.

The throng of tourists will likely swell to more than 3 million this year, up from an estimated 2.5 million in recent years, New York Wine & Grape Foundation President Jim Trezise said.

"We have had an equal number of winery startups in the first five years of this decade as we had in the whole decade previously, so we've doubled the growth rate," Trezise said. "I would say that probably we will have over 300 wineries statewide within two or three years."

It's been especially energetic in the Finger Lakes -- 10,000 acres of vineyards encircling four of the 11 fjord-like lakes in west-central New York.

One of America's oldest grape-growing regions now has 92 wineries, a sixfold increase in 30 years. The tourist influx is spawning dozens of bed-and-breakfasts and upscale restaurants and a burgeoning array of antique and gift stores, farm and craft markets and festivals.

"There's a huge multiplier effect from wine-industry growth, not only in tourism but in manufacturing because you have to have tanks and barrels, bottles and labels and corks and everything else," Trezise said.

A report by MFK Research issued September 19 that is the most comprehensive survey of its kind in New York estimated that the wine-and-grape industry in New York contributed $3.3 billion -- directly and indirectly -- to New York's economy in 2004.

A long-awaited state law allowing the direct shipment of wines into and out of New York went into effect August 11. Many New York vintners think the potential for sales growth nationally exceeds the risk that the local market may turn more toward wines from other states.

New York churns out about 200 million bottles of wine each year, generating more than $1 billion in sales, and is the nation's third-largest wine producer behind California and Washington. The state industry employs an estimated 18,000 people, both full-time and part-time.

The survey recorded an estimated 4.14 million "person visits" to New York wineries in 2003, up from 1.44 million in 1993 and 384,000 in 1985. The actual number of tourists is less since most of those people visited more than one winery, Trezise said.

Long Island had 943,000 "person visits," up 76 percent from 2000 to 2003, and the Finger Lakes topped 2 million visits, a 53 percent jump, the survey found. More than a quarter of visitors came from outside New York, and per-capita spending averaged $20.50 in 2003, up from $13.75 three years earlier.

There are more than 3,700 wineries in the United States, the world's No. 4 wine producer behind Italy, France and Spain. California had 1,689 wineries last year, followed by Washington state with 323 and Oregon with 228, according to the WineAmerica trade association. New York was fourth on the list, although it produces more wine than Oregon.

ROCguy

September 28th, 2005, 03:15 AM

Call me crazy, and there is probably some bias in it... but I have always thought that the finger lakes wine region is much more beautiful than Napa Vally. It has, obviously, the Finger Lakes themselves, and is also very hilly. It also is one of the most beautiful places on Earth durring fall, which Napa doesn't really get. God I love Upstate New York.

Malo

September 28th, 2005, 06:02 PM

Mall awaits word on Target

Irondequoit Planning Board might vote tonight on fate of key store

Meaghan M. McDermott
Staff writer

(September 28, 2005) — IRONDEQUOIT — With the flick of a switch Monday, the bold reds, yellows and blues of a towering new entry sign at Medley Centre spilled out over Route 104, signaling what many hope will be the formal start of a new era for the former Irondequoit Mall.

The whimsical new sign isn't the only major development this week for the property. By late today, depending on the outcome of a possible vote by the town Planning Board, area residents could know whether a free-standing Target store is coming to the mall.

"I love Target," said Edith Linder of Rochester, who stopped Tuesday at Medley Centre with her son, Mark Linder, to walk and window shop. "I sometimes go all the way out to ... Marketplace (in Henrietta) to shop there, and one here will be so much closer."

Since buying the former Irondequoit Mall in May for $5.2 million, developer Adam Bersin, president of Bersin Properties LLC, has reinvested "millions" into the 15-year-old mall's interior, fixing its leaking skylights and adding new signs. He said he's also planning to upgrade parking lot lighting and restrooms, refurbish the mall's two-story carousel and install "the world's largest, most expensive kids soft play area."

The 2,500-square-foot MedleyKids area, with sound, lights and play structures, is set to be installed in early December, he said.

"It's designed for kids ages 0 to 7, and it's not child care or baby-sitting, but it's about parents and kids being together, playing together in a family-friendly area," he said.

The proposed Target is one of three major retailers Bersin has so far attracted to the mall. Discount sports apparel store Steve & Barry's University Sportswear is expected to open in November, as is Brazilian perfume and personal care retailer O'Boticario.

"The site has always had viability, but was not handled in a way that would enhance that and make the mall work to its full potential," said Town Supervisor David Schantz. To help spur mall redevelopment, Monroe County, Irondequoit and the East Irondequoit Central School District earlier this year granted Bersin Properties a 15-year package of tax breaks.

Bersin said the mall's new additions are "just the beginning, the tip of the iceberg" of his plans.

"The steps we've taken are tremendous but they are linked and all part of a larger strategy," he said. "We intend to deliver on our vision for a shopping center like nothing else seen in Monroe County."

He said he's negotiating with other national retailers and restaurateurs also interested in joining Medley Center, but cannot yet release those names.

On Tuesday, the Town Board approved minor zoning changes to help clear the way for the Target store, including passing new guidelines for the number of parking spaces required at the mall and amending the mall's special use permit, said Schantz.

Tonight, the Planning Board will hold a special meeting to discuss and possibly vote on granting preliminary and final site plan approval for the proposal.

If Bersin Properties receives all needed board approvals, construction on the project could begin within the next few months, said Schantz.

Malo

September 28th, 2005, 07:52 PM

Room with a view: the other big project

Prime riverfront real estate in Rochester --- and its current use
Matt Walsh

Five years from now (assuming the fast ferry's still around) what will a Torontonian visiting Rochester for the first time experience?

Posh housing? Streets lined with hip boutiques? A waterfront park? A combination of all those or something completely different?

That's the question city officials are starting to wrestle with now, as they enter the planning stage of Rochester's other big project. And like Renaissance Square, the task of planning a waterfront makeover for the Port of Rochester has fallen to a prestigious Boston-based architecture firm.

While the eyes of Rochester's civic and community leaders (and those who follow them) are focused on the shape Renaissance Square will take, this other, equally important design is unfolding here without much fanfare so far.

When Ren Square architect Moshe Safdie came to Rochester a few months ago to present a portfolio of his past work, it was to a crowded ballroom in the convention center. The event attracted nearly a thousand paying visitors.

For a representative of Sasaki Associates, by contrast, the setting was a City Council work session, held last week in a crowded boardroom. It was attended by a handful of Council members and community members.

To be fair, Renaissance Square is a larger, more expensive project right in the heart of downtown. It's also further along; the bid by Sasaki still has to be formally approved by City Council (likely at its October 11 meeting). And Safdie may be a slightly bigger name than Sasaki.

But for Rochester, the work of the latter may be as important as the former. Sasaki's team will be designing the city's waterfront redevelopment plan for a critical portion of Charlotte, arguably one of the city's important most neighborhoods. The area --- which runs from the CSX right-of-way in the south to Beach Avenue in the north and is bordered on the east by the GeneseeRiver and the west by Lake Avenue --- will become the heart of the "City by the Sea," as Rochester has dubbed Charlotte. The plan Sasaki is to create is just that: a plan for how to best use a particular piece of land, not a design for a building or set of buildings.

"It would be like our center-city master plan," explains Community Development Commissioner Linda Stango.

The chance to design the plan attracted the interest of a talented group of planning and architecture firms, city officials say. Of 13 original bids, four firms were invited to be interviewed by a committee of city officials and Charlotte residents.

"This was the cream of the crop," City Councilman Bob Stevenson told the group assembled at last week's Council work session. Stevenson, whose district includes Charlotte and who sat on the selection committee, said the choice of Sasaki was nearly unanimous.

The firm will have to live up to those expectations; Rochester is pinning its hopes for the waterfront development on a patch of about 30 acres surrounding the new ferry terminal.

The man who will guide the process is Varoujan Hagopian, the Sasaki principal who made the presentation to Council last week. During that meeting, he showed city officials and residents samples of similar work he's done elsewhere. Waterfront development, he said, is his specialty: "That's all I do."

The projects he put on display ranged from comparatively tiny waterfront parks in New York City and New London, Connecticut, to a river and canal in downtown Indianapolis and an entire new seaside district in Providence, Rhode Island.

It's far too early to guess what Sasaki's plan for Charlotte will look like. But it's the perfect time to ask how Sasaki, with Hagopian at the helm, will pilot the process.

Hagopian took pains to reiterate a few points about the process he follows, both in the Council work session and in a subsequent conversation with City Newspaper.

In what would probably sound like music to the ears of Ren Square critics, Hagopian repeatedly emphasized the importance of engaging average citizens in the planning process.

"The more participation with the community, the more we like it," he told the City Council work session. "We love the public process; I'll continue to say that." And continue he did, a short while later adding, "Ideas are generated working with the community."

Hagopian and his team will also get ideas from a close look at the region. He recounted taking a canoe trip down Indianapolis' White River despite warnings not to do so. He's also walked, biked, and driven through the cities he's been charged with redeveloping. That's part of his strategy to look at a project area in the context of both its immediate surroundings and the broader region.

"We always look at the regional area, because we need to understand the dynamics," explains Hagopian. That's because plans "have to be unique to a community," he says. "We don't like to borrow from [another] place and then bring it in here." It also translates into a bonus for the city, since it will get not only the plans for the project area but a look at surrounding areas through an expert's eye, and occasionally, free planning advice for areas not strictly inside the project's scope.

"It's part of our obligation to outline those things," Hagopian explains.

Also an obligation of his: planning with a mind to the area's market conditions, says Hagopian. After all, for his plan to succeed the city will have to convince private developers to implement it.

"You have to work with what the local socioeconomics allow you to," he says. To accomplish that, Sasaki partners with the firm ZHA, which provides market analysis for any of the components --- housing or retail space, for instance --- that might end up in the plan.

Coupling the design and economic elements that way is meant to help the city avoid the chicken-and-egg dilemma that Ren Square also faces: Do you plan for retail and entertainment businesses first and hope they attract people? Or grow a base for those businesses first by building housing?

This kind of planning could even allow the city to plan development in targeted phases --- for instance, building a certain number of housing units first, but leaving space for retail to come when a critical mass of residents has arrived.

Based on ZHA's market analysis, "we would also give you an absorption rate," for each proposed use, Hagopian told the Council work session. In layman's terms, that means they could predict how quickly housing units would fill with a critical mass of residents or retail space attract tenants.

The goal is "to get developers to say 'Hey, we know how to do that,'" and do it profitably, Stango adds, "so we don't come up with a plan that everybody loves but no one will build."

Malo

September 28th, 2005, 07:59 PM

With the Charlotte plan starting to take shape, the Downtown Rochester plan is already in flight. Here is an article that talks about what some of the new development downtown is going to mean for the City of Rochester from this point forward...

Looking for solutions at East and Main

BY TIM LOUIS MACALUSO

...Is downtown Rochester ready to pull out of its 30-year slump?

A panel of real-estate and development experts is in town this week, trying to come up with a strategy for revitalizing MidtownPlaza, the Sibley's Building, and the undeveloped land just north of the Renaissance Square and Sibley sites.

They'll be touring the sites and talking with more than 100 people closely associated with the area: government officials, commercial leasing people, developers, MonroeCommunity College students, contractors, Greater Rochester Enterprise staff, and arts representatives.

The group is part of the Urban Land Institute, a think tank that studies cities' toughest real-estate problems. They've been invited here by some of the region's major commercial real-estate and development companies --- Home Properties, Wilmorite, Conifer, Buckingham Properties, and Costanza Enterprises, for example --- and important downtown businesses such as Bausch & Lomb and RG&E.

There've been plenty of studies of downtown Rochester. But this isn't just another one, insists Heidi Zimmer-Meyer, president of the Rochester Downtown Development Corporation, host of the five-day ULI visit. "If it is," she says, "we've failed, because that is not what we need. What we need is a strategy that spells out very specific steps to be taken. Renaissance Square is going to spur a lot of investment interest in this immediate area. Where do we go with that? How do we leverage the long-term value out of that momentum?"

Zimmer-Meyer is convinced that there's a real chance that something concrete will come out of the ULI visit. There is growing interest in downtown Rochester, she says. The vacancy rate for Class A office space is lower than in the suburbs. New market-rate housing is expanding. And it's significant, she says, that real-estate developers are helping bring ULI here.

ULI has been invited to conduct sessions like this one in cities all over the world. Its specialty is pushing the public and private sectors involved in major urban projects to look at problems in a new way. In Milwaukee, ULI was asked to examine the Grand Avenue Downtown Mall. Like Rochester, it had seen a steady decline of retail and, ultimately, the departure of the anchor retailers for the suburbs.

ULI recommended that the City of Milwaukee play an active role in the rejuvenation of the mall and surrounding downtown neighborhoods, explore a festival marketplace concept, and give the downtown area a pedestrian-friendly makeover.

The result was a renewed mall, with Boston Stores, an anchor tenant, spending $40 million in renovations. Another $30 million came from area businesses. New market-rate housing was added, and it's more than 85 percent occupied.

The ULI team won't be given any parameters or restrictions as it prepares its recommendations. It will encourage Rochester to look at the broadest and best possible range of options for the area. What types of retail make the most sense? What types of residential space is needed? What types of traffic changes should be considered?

For example, says Zimmer-Meyer: "Under the typical zoning for downtown, people would say, You can't have an auto dealer downtown. Well, no, we probably don't want a bunch of cars in one big lot facing the street. But in New York and Chicago, you often have a beautiful retail showroom for a Mercedes dealer --- something that engages the person on the street."

The sites themselves will set some parameters, however. While ULI may recommend limited public funding for new development, the assumption is that new projects will rely heavily on private investment. Developers will want to make a profit, and these are complicated sites.

The structures involved are old, and some have weathered years of neglect. Some were built when materials like asbestos weren't considered a problem. The site that the public generally refers to as Midtown Plaza is actually several buildings.

"At the end of the day," says Zimmer-Meyer, "investors have to be able to look at these sites and, if we're talking about making, let's say, lofts out of the Sibley's site, there has to be a return on that investment for all the work that would be involved in redoing them."

Rochester, says Zimmer-Meyer, is at one of the most important crossroads it has ever faced.

Fifty thousand plus people work downtown. The East End has become a lively entertainment venue, especially on weekends. But the virtual absence of serious traffic downtown during peak business hours makes it clear that downtown, particularly its East and Main intersection, is a long way away from being a vibrant urban center.

The eight acres in the ULI study are more than just a bunch of buildings in the middle of downtown, says Zimmer-Meyer. Historically, they have been the region's primary retail center. They include the signature pieces of the city's urban landscape, and they are as much about essence and experience as anything else.

Zimmer-Meyer insists that the timing is right, for the study and for results. "The stars and planets are all lined up," she says.

This may well be Rochester's "tipping point," an expression recently made popular by writer Malcolm Gladwell, whose theory is that little events can accumulate and eventually build a momentum. Right now, developments worth nearly $500 million are underway in downtown Rochester. They include activity in major cultural institutions, large projects like Renaissance Square, and numerous market-rate housing projects.

"The difference in this effort with the ULI and past efforts like Vision 2000 is that those were studies, and they came out of the public sector," says Zimmer-Meyer. "They were largely based on hope. This is what I mean about the timing. Now we have everyone engaged in a true public and private-sector dialogue. We have the city and the county on board. We have investors who are showing real interest."

It's easy to find examples of cities that have succeeded at downtown renewal, especially when they're already in an economic upswing: Portland, Fort Lauderdale, and Austin, for instance.

But only 70 miles west of Rochester sits another story. Buffalo has made a huge investment in its entertainment and theater district with only mixed results. Many beautifully refurbished buildings along Main Street have little or no occupancy. Prime retail remains vacant, with light-rail trains rumbling past one empty store window after another. Even Niagara Falls, with its unparalleled natural wonder, has struggled to remain a relevant tourist destination.

"The local economy is a serious issue for all of us in Upstate New York," says Zimmer-Meyer. "We all have to be aware of the economy and the role it plays in this. And it's true: We're not in the kind of upswing that people have seen in cities like Portland and Austin. But we are not in the same shape as Buffalo, either. It is truly a shame what has happened there. I love that city. But they have fundamental problems in their economy, their management, and the politics, and we don't have that."

Rochester does have its own problems, though. "We're not really risk takers in Rochester," says Zimmer-Meyer. "We're pretty conservative, and we have an awfully hard time taking that chance to be bigger and better. The Fast Ferry was a huge test in that respect."

"Let me show you something," says Zimmer-Meyer. She turns around to one side of her small office, a perch on the 13th floor of 183 East Main Street. Work crews at Corn Hill Landing, one of the new housing developments under way, can be seen from her windows.

"Here it is," she says spreading a newspaper open and pointing to a story on the lower right side of a page. It's about the Rochester ferry, and there's a big, gleaming image of the vessel cutting through the water.

The newspaper is from Shanghai, China, published for American business people living there. "My daughter is there, and she sent it to me," Zimmer-Meyer says, smiling. "We lose sight of how important that project is to this area. This is just one of the international papers that picked that story up."

"We really only have two options here," says Zimmer-Meyer. "One, we can do nothing. Just let the market do its own thing. Things could languish that way for another 10 or 20 years. Or we can grab the opportunity and take very strategic steps that will guide it, and maximize the interest we have in the area. And the interest is here, and it's real."

ECoastTransplant

September 28th, 2005, 08:38 PM

But only 70 miles west of Rochester sits another story. Buffalo has made a huge investment in its entertainment and theater district with only mixed results. Many beautifully refurbished buildings along Main Street have little or no occupancy. Prime retail remains vacant, with light-rail trains rumbling past one empty store window after another. Even Niagara Falls, with its unparalleled natural wonder, has struggled to remain a relevant tourist destination.

"The local economy is a serious issue for all of us in Upstate New York," says Zimmer-Meyer. "We all have to be aware of the economy and the role it plays in this. And it's true: We're not in the kind of upswing that people have seen in cities like Portland and Austin. But we are not in the same shape as Buffalo, either. It is truly a shame what has happened there. I love that city. But they have fundamental problems in their economy, their management, and the politics, and we don't have that."

:nono: Has Zimmer been to Buffalo lately? Retail may be dead, but the rest of downtown is seeing unprecedented investment. Don't use the B-lo as an example of how not to revitalize.

Though he does have a point about the politics, economy and management. :dunno:

BuffCity

September 28th, 2005, 08:47 PM

FROM WHAT I SAW...

Bad news IMO Rochester...

I recently spent a full day up in Toronto, a BIG city and a city that Rochester has attempted to make ties to. I spent a full day on Yonge street, and then down at the SkyDome for the Rolling Stones Concert.

What bothered me...Toronto has EVERYTHING for Rochester, but Rochester has nothing for Toronto. Its' gotta be close to equal of a trade otherwise it is a failure, not even with a cruise ship docking it's not working. The city has NOTHING to say about Rochester NY, so I don't know how Rochester expects to make something there...I mean, come on...Toronto has so much, I think the Ferry will certainly fail after seeing what people in each city are doing, what is in and where the money should be spent...sad Rochester.

ROCguy

September 28th, 2005, 09:45 PM

^^ Way more people come from Toronto to Rochester on the ferry than Vice Versa, that is the point of one of the threads on the Toronto forum. Torontoans DO come to Rochester. But they don't all necessarily come FOR Rochester. Rochester is the gateway to the finger lakes, wine country, and it drasticaly shortens their trip to NYC. You also have to remember that Rochester's metro population is about 1.1 million, while Toronto's metro population is well over 6 million. No matter what, the smaller city is going to have more people coming to it that the largers city. Being the smaller city is the advantage in this situation, and would be so with any two cities. I have said from the beginning, when the Ferry first started running last summer; That it is an EXCELLENT summer activity and it would be popular during this time of the year. Low and behold, fall is here, temperatures are starting to cool down, and the Ferry's business is dropping. It should be made a summer affair rather than a year long thing. Either that, or make the ferry (or at least parts of it) a floating Casino. I think the latter would be the best decision. So many people are hell bent on building a Casino in DT Rochester, but it is a fact, that WOULD bring crime, and Rochester's first priority right now is to lower its crime rate. But, put a casino on a boat in the lake, and it's a win-win situation. No Casino downtown, leaves the area open for more family-oreinted ventures (which fits Rochester's charecter much more) and have the casino on the boat, which could probably get people to ride it year round.

Malo

September 29th, 2005, 04:35 PM

I know this store construction is not all that big a deal by most counts, but the fact that it is going to be one of the major anchors at the new Medley Centre is a big deal--and with the re-opening of the former Irondequoit Plaza, whcih has lain dormant for the past 10 years or so, sends a clear message throughout the Rochester Metro, that this side of town is now open for business. Look for other projects to come to light in support of this shopping centre.

Anyway, this is what the D&C had to say about it:

Target gets board's go-ahead

Store at Medley Centre aims for 2006 opening

Meaghan M. McDermott
Staff writer

(September 29, 2005) — IRONDEQUOIT — Bull's-eye.

By unanimous vote Wednesday night, the Irondequoit Planning Board gave developer Bersin Properties the go-ahead to build a 127,000-square-foot Target store at Medley Centre.

"This is a big step, but a baby step toward the vision of Medley Centre," said Adam Bersin, president of Bersin Properties, which purchased the former Irondequoit Mall in May for $5.2 million. When Bersin purchased the 15-year-old property, it was 70 percent vacant.

Since that time, Bersin has put millions of dollars into renovating the mall's interior and replacing the property's signs.

Target is the third large retailer to announce a move to Medley Centre since the change in ownership. Discount apparel outlet Steve & Barry's University Sportswear and Brazilian perfume and personal goods store O Boticário both plan to open in November.

"Typically, we measure redevelopment in years," he said. "But this property is a sleeping giant that's just beginning to wake up."

The store will be the fifth Target in Monroe County, joining those in Greece, Henrietta, Penfield and Webster. Another Target is in Victor, Ontario County.

ROCguy

September 29th, 2005, 09:00 PM

The Greece one does get pretty good business. I just don't see why the people of Irondequoit are so hell bent on getting one. I mean, it's an ok store, but nothing to write home about.

ROCguy

September 29th, 2005, 09:37 PM

It really doesn't have anything to do with development news, but this is an article I found in the "Letters to the Editor" section of the D&C. It reminds me of what really makes me love Rochester so much....it's people.

Pat on the back

Crew rescues woman, then mows her lawn

My neighbor, a senior citizen, recently fell while mowing her lawn. She was spotted lying in the gutter on Dorsey Road by some very compassionate people driving by in two vehicles. These three angels managed to keep my neighbor comfortable, while calling for an ambulance.

The response from the Barnard Fire Department seemed almost instantaneous, followed by Monroe Ambulance personnel. Both the Barnard and Monroe crews were so gentle and compassionate while at the same time being very professional.

As my neighbors and I watched, the Barnard crew finished mowing her lawn, weed whacked it and even blew the clippings off the driveway and sidewalks. When I mentioned to the Barnard crew that this was certainly above and beyond what was expected, they replied that "it's just the right thing to do. It will be one less thing for her to worry about."

In my haste to lock up my neighbor's house for her, I had neglected to close her garage door. I couldn't locate the control button to lower the door. Once again, the Barnard crew came through. They managed to open a window, find the garage door switch and closed the door. They also checked the other doors and windows.

This experience has reinforced in my neighbors and me how fortunate we are to live in the Barnard Fire District. Our thanks for a job well done seems like so little to say.

Our neighbor has had surgery and is well on the road to recovery, thanks to the prompt care and compassion of all those involved.

BOB JONES
GREECE

ROCguy

October 4th, 2005, 09:36 PM

DAMMIT!!! (http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051004/NEWS01/51004002)

Well, at least it's for the good of Wegmans. And it won't actually add to unemployment.

ROCguy

October 4th, 2005, 09:46 PM

Well, this isn't necessarily only Rochester's development news. but the whole state's. But it was in Rochester's newspaper so what the heck, I'll put it here....http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051004/NEWS01/51004004

u_u

October 5th, 2005, 12:17 AM

Anybody have and links to old rochester maps? I'm especially interested of ones that show downtown before the 490 and inner loop were constructed.

ROCguy

October 13th, 2005, 06:49 AM

Well.... the arches of the new and improved Troup-Howell Bridge are almost complete. Actually, this picture was taken on Monday the 10th, so they are probably done already. (this picture comes from rocpic.com, a website that has a picture of they day almost every day with great views of events and scenes in Rochester)........... here's the pic from Monday

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/nixter369/troup-howell.jpg
(I seriously hope they ditch that green ugliness on the bottom... the computer model of it doesn't show that on there, and it better not be on there when it's finished)

BuffCity

October 13th, 2005, 11:27 AM

ROCguy

October 13th, 2005, 05:08 PM

I don't know if they plan on lighting it up... but here is what it is SUPPOSED to look like durring the day when it's finished.

http://www.dot.state.ny.us/reg/r4/490gateway/trouphowell/images/troup_howell_brthm.jpg

ECoastTransplant

October 13th, 2005, 11:40 PM

man they better light that thing up...or do something or that will be a HUGE waste of cash. I never understood the point of it myself.

good to see the Rochester development forum is still going...I see a few new members here.

:old:

Looks like a stubby Peace Bridge. I thought they threw that design out a century ago. :weird:

ProudBuffalonian

October 14th, 2005, 06:19 AM

I heard some guy was arrested for some scandal involving about $100,000 in Rochester. Anyone have more information about it?

BuffCity

October 14th, 2005, 08:19 AM

did Tom need money for his campaign? lol

ROCguy

October 15th, 2005, 01:23 AM

I heard some guy was arrested for some scandal involving about $100,000 in Rochester. Anyone have more information about it?

I can't find the article... but some guy who worked for Kodak.... cheated the company and the town of Greece out of over 100.000 bucks a few months ago... It was the headline story on the paper yesterday if you can find it.

ROCguy

October 16th, 2005, 07:08 PM

Downtown news.....http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051016/NEWS01/510160329

ROCguy

October 18th, 2005, 09:57 PM

Well, it's not really development news. But this is a really funny article that was in the paper a while ago and was reposted on the website today. It's a list of things that everyon in Rochester is supposed to know about/ have done/ have strong opinions about..... It's "cute" (funny)

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050501/REALESTATE05/504280323/1128

and wow... the last three posts on this thread are from me. That's sad.

BuffCity

October 20th, 2005, 08:56 AM

does Rochester have anything "inside" for winter time recreation that is open to the public? like a Mall area, or some kinda forum thing.

Buffalo has Main Place, Lafayette Court, Market Arcade, Ellicott Square. Does Rochester have anything of the sort?

DallasTexan

October 20th, 2005, 09:53 AM

Main Place lol

ROCguy

October 20th, 2005, 09:14 PM

Greece Ridge mall... and Wegmans. lol

BuffCity

October 21st, 2005, 09:28 AM

Reynolds Arcade...?

ROCguy

October 21st, 2005, 10:56 PM

If this isn't positive development news for Rochester.... I don't know what is...http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051021/OPINION04/510210381

BuffCity

October 22nd, 2005, 01:04 AM

Kodak, come on...this company has made a huge blunder.

Xerox, got fat dumb and lazy.

Rochester needs it's own plan, no relying on these companys to be the wind in the sails.

Lower Taxes, lower taxes and lower taxes.

ROCguy

October 22nd, 2005, 02:54 AM

^^ That's kind of what the article was saying.... although Kodak is in rough water right now. it is still making the transition into a digital company.... and while it does this, it is shrinking, while other companies in the area are growing. The economy is diversifying. U of R has now taken Kodak's spot as the number 1 employer in the region with over 17,000 employees. I think the point is, that, while in the long run Kodak is going to become a better company, it's importance in Rochester is going to decrease. Rochester won't be so depenedent on it. If it does emerge as a more high tech digital company within the next several years (which most believe it will). It will probably add some jobs. but it won't become and overhelming employer.

BuffCity

October 23rd, 2005, 12:39 PM

U of R is the largest employer, and I bet it's because of the hospital. Considering what funds most of hospitals income (taxe money) this does not impress me and should not be a bragging point in Rochester.

ROCguy

October 23rd, 2005, 10:39 PM

It is because of the hospital. The university only has about 6,000 students. Do you think it is going to have 11,000 more employees than students? (by the way, people in Rochester have voted in favor, for whatever reason, of raising taxes if it provides jobs. 3 democrats for every 1 republican, taxes are of little concern to them)

BuffCity

October 24th, 2005, 02:45 AM

then the same people are watching their kids move to Phoenix and get jobs that pay more than they're own.

Point is...Jobs can't be provided by government as a whole weather directly or financially, thats called...a socialist state and I don't think we are there yet.

Healthcare is such a big business only because Medicare and Medicaide have become HUGE in NYS, how convenient that the government (U of R) takes care of the patients as well as bills them...yet taxes (our money) pays the medical bills and wages in the entire system.

fuckin great huh?

ROCguy

October 24th, 2005, 03:27 AM

Dude... you sound like Ann Coulter.

bjfan82

October 24th, 2005, 03:45 AM

When I lived in So. Cal. this past year the citizens of Huntington Beach and in Orange County also voted to raise certain taxes for whatever reason, in a 60-65% Republican County. I just thought that was interesting. I don't know how to read that except maybe people are willing to pay more in taxes if they feel it is a worth cause instead of percieving that their higher taxes will bail out other worthless programs.

I think everyone wants to lower taxes, but just don't do it the way Erie County did it - slashing so much taxes without downsizing the government. That's how you get huge deficits and a control board.

ROCguy

October 24th, 2005, 03:46 AM

I just don't see how you see UR as "the government" buffcity... it's a private university. It's not part of the SUNY system or anything like that. I'ts a business just like any other.

donbuy

October 24th, 2005, 05:23 PM

Food for thought: Keleida Hrealth System is the largest nonpublic employer in the Buffalo region with 9,724 workers.

Interesting article from Business First:

Pay increases for workers within Erie County are lagging substantially behind the national average, according to a new report from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The typical local employee earned 0.7 percent more during the first quarter of 2005 than in the same quarter a year ago, based on the bureau's figures for all workers covered by unemployment insurance.

That trailed the national increase of 2.2 percent in the same year-to-year span.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics releases quarterly wage reports for 322 U.S. counties, including six in upstate New York. Average earnings are derived from reports that all employers are required to file under unemployment-insurance laws.

Broome County, which includes Binghamton, fared the best of the six upstate counties included in the federal report. Wages for the average worker within Broome County increased by 2.0 percent between the first quarters last year and this year.

Oneida County (Utica), Erie County and Onondaga County (Syracuse) posted tiny year-to-year increases. Oneida was up 0.9 percent, Erie was up 0.7 percent, and Onondaga was up 0.1 percent.

Wages for workers in Albany were unchanged between the two years. And the final upstate county included in the Bureau of Labor Statistics' study, Monroe County (Rochester), suffered a drop of 1.8 percent in average wages.

Declines were reported in 35 U.S. counties, accounting for slightly more than one-tenth of the 322 counties in the study group.

The worst drop occurred in Clayton County, Ga., a southern suburb of Atlanta, where pay for the average worker was 6.0 percent lower in the first quarter of 2005 than in the same quarter last year.

Also experiencing substantial drops were Marin County, Calif., just north of San Francisco, which was down 5.6 percent, and Hamilton County, Ind., an Indianapolis suburb, which was down 4.3 percent

BuffCity

October 24th, 2005, 11:31 PM

I just don't see how you see UR as "the government" buffcity... it's a private university. It's not part of the SUNY system or anything like that. I'ts a business just like any other.

not saying U of R is public, but even though its a private university, it still gets government money in the form of grants and tuition funds. Also, I expalined my problem with public healthcare and how "some" private companies become HUGE benificieries of public policy...like Oil companies, healthcare companies and government contacted companies.

it's my beef guys, Buffalo learned or is learning it's lesson, but the fact is...you can't keep a city full of programs running if you tax the industry out and rely on the lower income residents who remain to carry the tax burden, fact is Buffalo needs an economic base.

Rochester will soon understand whats going on in Buffalo if it's doesn't already, they are taking losses all the time to China and just plain chapter 11.

btw...I'm very very Republican and Right wing - for those who had been wondering.

ROCguy

October 25th, 2005, 12:06 AM

^^ lol, I had that much figured out a whie ago. Didn't you see my Ann Coulter comment?

ROCguy

October 25th, 2005, 12:29 AM

Oh.... and here is some Development news for sure.

Feds give final OK to city's Brooks Landing project

Lara Becker Liu
Staff writer

(October 24, 2005) — As construction of Corn Hill Landing wraps up, another long-awaited riverfront project appears finally to be getting off the ground.

The U.S. Department of the Interior's National Park Service late last month gave its approval for construction of Brooks Landing, a $17.2 million development planned for the Brooks Avenue-Genesee Street area in southwest Rochester. The project is to feature an 80-room hotel, a 20,000- to 25,000-square-foot mixed-use building, an Erie Canal boat landing and a waterfront promenade that will link to the existing Genesee River trail system.

"This project has been on the drawing board in one form or another for at least 20 years," Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-Fairport, said in a printed statement released today. "The area's current make-up hides the wonderful neighborhood that exists all around it. The project will flip that 180 degrees and make the area a community anchor, improving not only the 19th Ward, but also the University of Rochester and areas up and down the Genesee River."

Approval by the National Parks Service was necessary in order to convert 1.38 acres of parkland into developable property on which the boat docks, promenade, hotel, restaurant and parking lot could be located.

The land is considered a part of Genesee Valley Park even though it is not physically connected to the park, has no park amenities – and, in fact, includes four lanes of South Plymouth Avenue.

The city offered 19.5 acres of vacant land adjacent to Turning Point Park in exchange for the 1.38 acres, but the conversion process took three years — a frustrating delay for Brooks Landing proponents.

"We love Genesee Valley Park — all 800 acres of it — and losing even one acre is something we don't take lightly," said Dana Miller, chairman of the Sector 4 Community Development Corp., which helped shape and fight for the project. "But we believe this is an excellent tradeoff. It will make it a much more people-friendly and usable area for the community."

Indeed, the project is seen as crucial for the revitalization of a part of southwest Rochester that includes the 19th Ward. Residents, business owners, the city and the University of Rochester community across the river expect Brooks Landing to become a retail destination, a link to UR and an impetus for change in the city's southwest section. The project is also central to the city's plan to develop one of its major waterways.

Fashun Ku, the city's commissioner of economic development, was not available for comment yesterday. But Miller said a ground-breaking could take place this year, and that construction could be completed at the earliest by the end of 2006.

BuffCity

October 25th, 2005, 01:11 AM

yea I saw it. lol :)

btw, the riverfront in Rochester, these townhomes are awsome, like the whole stretch from the Blue Cross to the Ford Street Bridge just looks so very impressive.

Can't wait to see the progress.

ROCguy

October 25th, 2005, 03:48 AM

Yeah... these new developments on the river are definitely an image improvement. I imagine they will be (or already are) hot properties.... Nobody has actually been able to live ON the banks of the river in a very long time.

BuffCity

October 25th, 2005, 10:10 PM

you know the Genesee is such a nice river, maybe if they could remove the trees and stuff from the river more towards downtown they could allow for some small boats or docks too...?

bjfan82

October 25th, 2005, 11:48 PM

ROCguy

October 26th, 2005, 12:49 AM

I think he's the latter too. He said he thought a gay community would benefit Buffalo. That's not something an evangelical conservative would say.

ROCguy

October 26th, 2005, 12:52 AM

you know the Genesee is such a nice river, maybe if they could remove the trees and stuff from the river more towards downtown they could allow for some small boats or docks too...?

I don't think there are that many trees by the river downtown.... here is a beautiful picture of the Genesee River a little north of DT.... they just couldn't get rid of these trees.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a221/nixter369/fallriver.jpg

sargeantcm

October 26th, 2005, 12:57 AM

^^ God no. That would be like the American side of the Falls (along with the lower river) developing into a mirror of the Canadian side. Talk about sacreligious travesties. That almost looks like Letchworth, or at least nowhere near civilization!

There was actually a commentary about that in the paper today, which is why I thought of it.

BuffCity

October 26th, 2005, 08:01 AM

yeah that would be sweet...maybe rochester should try getting investors to get more houses/apts up on the banks of the river like we're sorta trying to do here in buff w/the lake.

Buffcity, btw when u say you are very very right wing republican...are you saying that you are a gun toting, nascar driving, bible carrying republican? or are you just a NY Republican...conservative economically but moderate-liberal socially?

-I always wondered that, i get the impression you are the latter, but i'm not sure.

bj,

I am very pro-gun...I infact made a very "hippy" teacher cry in class in 11th grade because I was able to swing about every student against the brady law and anti-gun reforms. Yes, she teared and asked me to leave class. LOL

As for NASCAR, I used to be before it became so damn fake, I mean the days of Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty...this "stuff" now is like watching Go-Karts at Six Flags.

Bible, no I don't consider myself religious, but I am christian and I am not one to leave "under god" out of the pledge. I'm not consistant, but I'm a beleiver.

Social Issues, NO to gay-marriage, No to Social Governments Programs and Welfare, and No to the right to burn the American Flag.

I'm not a typical Religious right wing fanatic who has all 4 models of the ford f-150 in his front yard, I like to think I'm the Retro-Conservitive Republican type...you know Buckley, Reagan, Limbaugh, Savage, Churchill.

ROCguy

October 27th, 2005, 01:03 AM

Buffcity, you are not Limbaugh. (that was a compliment)

BuffCity

October 27th, 2005, 01:05 AM

yea, Limbaugh is worth millions, and I am living off my savings. LOL

ROCguy

October 27th, 2005, 01:07 AM

I was talking about the fact that , assumingly, you don't pop-pills and have the audacity to feel self rightous about telling other people they are wrong in doing so.

ROCguy

October 27th, 2005, 01:36 AM

God blessed his grace on thee....... Rochester that is......http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051026/NEWS01/510260329 Interesting isn't it? I'd like to go and see it in person myself (though it is in a not so nice area of town)

BuffCity

October 27th, 2005, 03:15 AM

I like Limbaugh, so you won't see me talking trash about him. lol

btw...I see alot of the Ferry Terminal food stand owners are pissed because they don't know what to do all winter...I bet they want Rochester to bail them out, or NYS.

Once again, this is going to end up a City, County and State operation, and all the tax payers just let it fricken happen. I hate that stupid damn boat, it has not done ANYTHING for Rochester and has been a bigger pain than anything else. Rochester should added the cash to the Airport and done something that way, but no...Johnson's folly.

amazing.

ROCguy

October 27th, 2005, 03:36 AM

yeah. johnson will never live that down. At least there will be a new mayor elected next month. I think the only way for the ferry to be a success now, is to either make it a summer only thing. or the better option IMHO, put a casion on the ferry. NOT DOWNTOWN, but the ferry... and business on it will skyrocket lol. (doesn't say much for the clientel, but hey, they'll take what they can get)

sargeantcm

October 27th, 2005, 04:02 AM

A bit off-topic, but you could consider it Rochester development - If you guys liked the egg that the Sabres laid in Rochester tonight against a vastly inferior team, we'll give you the Bills. They do it on a far more regular basis...

ROCguy

October 27th, 2005, 09:30 PM

Xerox signs $18 million deal with Office Max

David Tyler
Staff writer

(October 27, 2005) — Xerox Corp. said today it has signed a four-year, $18 million deal to place 1,280 digital printers and copiers at Office Max Inc. stores nationwide.

The systems include DocuColor 240/250 color multifunction machines that print, copy and scan, and CopyCentre c2636 digital copiers.

Xerox, which employs 8,330 people in Monroe County, also announced a five-year contract with Dow Chemical Co. to upgrade that company's document management capabilities with 3,500 new Xerox multifunction systems. Terms of that deal were not disclosed.

lol. I could have sworn I already saw (and have seen) xerox products at office max.

BuffCity

October 28th, 2005, 01:16 AM

the old Black bear aint dead yet huh? lol

good news

ROCguy

November 5th, 2005, 01:46 AM

Not sure if this counts as development news....But I suppose if you live in Rochester it would really suprise and maybe excite you (if you are into historical homes) there is actually a house for sale in Corn Hill (that rarely happens) and it's freaking BEAUTIFUL.. it has to be one of the oldest, built in 1853. Here is it's listing page....http://rochestercityliving.com/home_detail.asp?type=single&mls=524743

kirkunit

November 13th, 2005, 02:38 AM

Also not really development news but still something to end the annoying political discussion:

xcski.com/gallery/ gp_iag/101_0140_IMG

One of the better shots of downtown Rochester I have seen. I've always thought that Rochester's downtown was more photogenic than Buffalo's.

kirkunit

November 13th, 2005, 02:44 AM

Not sure how to use the "insert photo" option. Can someone help me out?

ROCguy

November 13th, 2005, 03:12 AM

the photo has to have true URL (you can pretty much only get those on search engines)... if it comes from anyplace else, you have to save it to your "my pictures" folder, then get an account on an image hosting site like http://photobucket.com/...... I'm sure somebody else can explain it better than I can to you...... Great to see another Upstate NY forumer on SSC by the way! Welcome.

kirkunit

November 13th, 2005, 04:17 AM

Success! Thanks for explaining the process to me.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/kirkunit/101_0140_IMG.jpg

kirkunit

November 13th, 2005, 04:26 AM

sargeantcm

November 13th, 2005, 05:08 AM

^^ I'm no Rochester resident, but without knowing anything else, I can tell you the picture is looking southwest, and that giant grass patch is the airport (KROC). You can see the runways and taxiways if you look closely. The major runways are aligned like a "7" with the top part of the 7 being swung around backwards. Yeah, I'm a Flight Sim geek lol.

Great picture, BTW. We don't see many aerials around here!

ROCguy

November 13th, 2005, 06:11 AM

Couple of questions for you Rochester residents out there. What is that gigantic grass field at the top of the picture? Also, what kind of nieghborhood comprises the housing in the bottom of the picture? I've only been to Rochester a few times, but know much about it's downtown through Emporis and rochesterdowntown.com (perhaps the best city downtown resource website I have ever seen). Don't know if everyone out there will agree, but I think Rochester has the most developed and impressive traditional skyline for a city of it's size (~200,000).

While I am the main Rochester forumer here on SSC ( there are a few others, but I am BY FAR the most prolific), I actually don't live there right now. I will be moving back in about a year and a half. I can however tell you that Sargeantcm is right, that picture is looking SW from either the NE corner of the city. The neighborhood you are refering to that in the bottom of the picture looks like it's the 14621 neighborhood and maybe a little bit of Beechwood. Those have traditionaly been the middle class blue collar neighborhoods of the city. Most of the homes would probably have been built between 1910's-late 1920's. There are a lot of little corner restaurants. Go to this site..... http://rochestercityliving.com/ to get a good analysis of Rochester's most popular neighborhoods. (click the neighborhoods link, on the second bulet on the left of the page)

kirkunit

November 13th, 2005, 06:22 AM

Thanks guys. I had no idea that the airport was so close to downtown.

ROCguy

November 13th, 2005, 07:04 AM

lol, the airport could fit in my side yard. They have remodeled it recently and it's very nice, but, it's tiny. it's no great accomplishment being in the city itself.

kirkunit

November 13th, 2005, 07:30 AM

Actually I'd like to see figures comparing the Rochester airport with the Buffalo/Niagara International Airport. You say that Rochester's airport is small, but I think Buffalo's is too. Anyone have the numbers on this?

sargeantcm

November 13th, 2005, 03:24 PM

The problem with Buffalo's is that it's completely hemmed in by the suburbs, perhaps even more than Rochester's (which at least has a relatively free end). If they wanted to expand, they'd have to extend the main runway over the Thruway .Right now the approach lights go across the highway, which looks neat at night. Of course if you don't know what it is, it looks like a bunch of flashing lights like there's an accident in front of you. Buffalo did actually extend their minor runway a few years ago when they tore the Westinghouse plant down, and now it actually functions as a second primary (I never saw commercial flights using it like they do now). As for expansions, I remember there being talk of building a larger regional airport in Wheatfield or something, but that probably went the way of population expansion statistics. Seems kinda dumb anyways, when you have an airport already in Niagara Falls, one that can handle 747s in fact.

I don't have enplanement stats for either, but here's a comparison of the geometrics, from airnav.com:

Buffalo-Niagara Int'l (KBUF)
Runway 5/23 - 8102' x 150' (asphalt/grooved, good condition)
Runway 14/32 - 7161' x 150' (used to be about 6000'?) (asphalt/grooved, good condition)

Airport Operational Statistics
Aircraft based on the field: 46
Single engine airplanes: 17
Multi engine airplanes: 14
Jet airplanes: 12
Helicopters: 3
--
Aircraft operations: avg 435/day
55% commercial
18% transient general aviation
18% air taxi
7% local general aviation
2% military
--
Selected Additional Remarks
- Heavy concentration of gulls, blackbirds & starlings up to 5000' on and in vicinity of airport
- Deer on and in vicinity of airport.

Greater Rochester Int'l (KROC)
Runway 4/22 - 8001' x 150' (asphalt/grooved, good condition)
Runway 10/28 - 5500' x 150' (asphalt/grooved, good condition)
Runway 7/25 - 4000' x 140' (asphalt, poor condition)

Airport Operational Statistics
Aircraft based on the field: 71
Single engine airplanes: 53
Multi engine airplanes: 11
Jet airplanes: 7
--
Aircraft operations: avg 412/day
33% air taxi
22% transient general aviation
22% commercial
21% local general aviation
2% military
--
Selected Additional Remarks
- RWY 10/28 noise sensitive area & RWY 04/22 preferential RWY.
- RY 07/25 closed to jet aircraft.
- Birds, deer & coyote on and in vicinity of airport.

So even the wildlife is a bit varied lol.

Looking at the operational statistics, Rochester's seems to be geared slightly more to general aviation, given the higher number of aircraft based on the field, and much less commercial traffic than Buffalo. I don't know about other airports around Rochester, but most of Buffalo's general aviation happens at Buffalo Airfield (9G0, about 3 miles south of the big airport, 151 ops/day), Lancaster, Lockport, Potoczak (Pendleton), Hamburg, Orchard Park, etc.

The longest runways in upstate, I believe, belong to Rome-Griffiss Airpark (KRME) - 11820', Plattsburgh Int'l (KPBG) - 11758', Niagara Falls Int'l (KIAG) - 9829', and Syracuse Hancock Int'l (KSYR) - 9003'. NYC's JFK has a 14572'.

ROCguy

November 13th, 2005, 11:22 PM

donbuy

November 14th, 2005, 03:39 PM

I don't have enplanement stats for either, but here's a comparison of the geometrics, from airnav.com:

Looking at the operational statistics, Rochester's seems to be geared slightly more to general aviation, given the higher number of aircraft based on the field, and much less commercial traffic than Buffalo.

Per NFTA and County of Monroe projections for 2005. Total passenger traffic at Rochester Monroe County Int'l Airport (ROC) is expected to be 2.85 million.
Total for BNIA (BUF) is expected to be 5.01 million.

The figures for both airports are for arrivals and departures combined.

kirkunit

November 14th, 2005, 04:55 PM

Thanks for finding the numbers on the airports.

Heres something from the D&C:

Visionary sees art gallery on downtown walls

Jeffrey Blackwell
Staff writer

(November 14, 2005) — Kenichiro Sato walks downtown and sees a perfect setting for a public gallery of photographs.

The walls of his museum would be the hard facades of city buildings — his audience, anyone strolling down a city sidewalk, riding in a car or waiting for a bus. The photographs would be the size of billboards and compact cars. Admission would be free.

"I don't see lots of exciting stuff downtown," said Sato, a 26-year-old student from Japan. "I want to make it a more vital city."

Turning downtown into an outdoor museum is an ambitious project, but Sato and a small group of volunteers are trying to create the Rochester Outdoor Museum of Art, or ROMA, nonetheless.

The plan is based on a project Sato completed for a public policy class at Monroe Community College. The idea is to hang 50 to 100 photographs ranging in size from 50-by-100-feet on the sides of buildings to several hundred smaller photographs of 8-by-10-feet in public places across the city.

The plan also includes an international photo contest, the winner of which would earn the right to display work at the museum along with photographers from Rochester and across the United States.

No advertising would be accepted, said Sato. But the entire project would serve as a tourism billboard for Rochester, he said.

"The thing about this project is that art is usually inside a building and doesn't change the environment of the town," he said. "This is new. (As far as we know) this would be the first museum like this in the world."

Sato has come a great distance to offer a hand to Rochester. He is from Sendai, Japan, and moved to the United States two years ago on a scholarship from the Nakamoto Museum of Contemporary Art. He worked for the museum for three years before coming to the United States to study two years ago.

Sato moved to Rochester a year ago after a year in New York City. He lives downtown and goes to school downtown. He does not have a car, so he spends much of his time downtown.

"This is the image center of the world, and there is nothing downtown to show that besides the Kodak building," Sato said.

As with most ideas for sparking life downtown, this one requires money, cooperation and a bit of good luck.

The cost of making the school project a reality is about $1 million. Sato and his group estimate that the cost of printing one 50-by-100-foot photograph would cost about $22,500. The photographs would be printed on vinyl sheets, which Sato said would be resistant to the elements.

Other costs would include lighting, installation, promotion and management.

Heidi Zimmer-Meyer, president of Rochester Downtown Development Corp., has seen many public art projects proposed for downtown and what most lack is funding. But public art, she said, will be an important ingredient in revitalizing downtown.

People are drawn to cities such as Barcelona, Spain, because of public works of art. Zimmer-Meyer said art can give a city an edge of interest, a connection to local culture and can just make people walking down the street feel good. "Art celebrates life and reminds us what is most important. If it is bold and edgy it can help to project ourselves out on to the streets. It would be a tremendous win for the community."

Sato and his team are hoping to create a nonprofit organization to help move the project forward and to raise money through corporate and private donations and grants. John Lam, a software engineer, is working with Sato on the project and helping him make contacts. He said they have met with a few city officials and local organizations such as the Rochester Downtown Development Corp.

"We have met so many people in a very short time and so far no one has had anything bad to say about it," said Lam. "Everyone is very enthusiastic."

Greg Marshall, vice president of marketing for the Greater Rochester Visitors Association Inc., said he was excited about the proposal when he first heard about it. He said it is the kind of project that could bring life and attention — as well as tourists — back to downtown. About 1.7 million people visit the area each year now, according to the visitors association.

Marshall has not yet met with Sato and his partners but is looking forward to doing so. He said creating a "buzz" about the proposal is the first step to moving it forward.

"I look out my window and see a dozen palettes," Marshall said. "You build buzz, and people start saying that this community can start getting back to a 'can-do' attitude."

But there are still many people who would have to be convinced of the project's potential for tourism, including building owners.

Sato said people have no farther to look for a success story than Central Park in New York City and "The Gates," an outdoor work of art by artists Christo Javacheff and Jeanne-Claude Denat de Guillebon. The work featured 7,500 saffron-colored fabric gates that decorated the walkways of the park. It was up for 16 days in February and drew more than 1 million people and $254 million into the city, Mayor Michael Bloomberg told CNN in March.

Companies have also used images to decorate their buildings on special occasions. Xerox Corp. wrapped three sides of its office building in Athens, Greece, last year with a mosaic of 27,000 employee photographs showing two children running through a park. It was placed on the building for the Summer Olympics in Athens.

Lam said there is little question people would travel to an outdoor exhibition in Rochester. Some of the millions of visitors to Niagara Falls each year might want to take the 90-minute drive to visit the museum. It could also provide a reason for ferry travelers from Toronto to spend the night in Rochester, he said.

"This is unique and it hasn't been done anywhere else in the world. ... Even if we got just 1 percent of those visitors (from Niagara Falls) to come here — people who would have not regularly come here — that would be a half-million a year."

Marshall also hailed the proposal as an example of a young person trying to bring change to downtown. "When we squelch the ideas of young people, that's when they take off for Boston," he said. "They want to live in a can-do community."

JBLACKWELL@DemocratandChronicle.com

Rendering:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a220/kirkunit/bilde.jpg

I've been wanting to see something like this placed on the Franklin side on the Buffalo Convention Center for years. It would definately make that section of street far more attractice. I don't think it makes sense for a large portion of a downtown however. You have to consider issues such as people not caring for the art you display and whether that art will still be considered attractive in 10 years. Also, in 10 years how will this stuff look when it's worn and faded-will it become an eyesore rather than art (think of the god-awful "art" displayed in the windows of the courtyard mall in downtown Buffalo)? If it gets done I think it will be interesting to see what happens, and I would definately make the drive to Rochester to take a look.

donbuy

November 15th, 2005, 03:02 PM

Ridership on the Rochester fast ferry dropped 43 percent in September compared with August, city officials said Monday.
Some 25,935 rode the Spirit of Ontario I in September between Rochester and Toronto, down from 45,811 in August and down 1.5 percent from the first month of operation in July.
The city-owned ferry lost $4.2 million from March to August, a Rochester Ferry Company LLC report in late October said.
The city’s business plan for the fast ferry projected a first-year loss of $700,000.

kirkunit

November 15th, 2005, 09:05 PM

Little bit of bad news.

Last dance: Metro 37 closes after 10 months

Jeff Spevak
Staff writer

(November 15, 2005) — Metro 37 Ultra Lounge has shut down after a 10-month run in the East End entertainment district.

Owner Peter Cristo, the former hotel developer who created the club from an abandoned garage at 37 Charlotte St., intended it as the first "ultra lounge" in Rochester. The art deco space, with its fusion-style restaurant, opened in February. It sought to attract the affluent over-30 crowd with high-end drinks and deejays playing techno music as scantily clad women danced.

Cristo could not be reached for comment; a telephone at his Rochester apartment had been disconnected. "Unfortunately, we have closed our establishment permanently," said a female voice on the club's answering machine. A local real-estate agent also confirmed that the property was for sale.

Metro 37 also insisted on proper dress that disallowed blue jeans, although that rule seemed to be rarely enforced.

Michael O'Leary, owner of the East End club Milestones, said one of Metro 37's problems was its high-end ambition didn't fit the district.

"He kinda tried to make his place an island, figuratively and literally," O'Leary said. "It was a tough location, and he didn't really try to emulate what was going on in the area. You really need to work with the neighborhood, at least downtown.

"Maybe a place like that, that would stand alone, would make it in the nice 'burbs'." JSPEVAK@DemocratandChronicle.com

Sounded like a cool place, but the first rule of business with clubs in Buffalo and Rochester should be NO DRESS CODE. Both cities have now lost a downtown club/restaurant recently as the YaYa Brewhouse in Buffalo closed a couple months ago. It also just suddenly stopped operating with no warning. I don't understand why the owners of these places just can't tell the public they're going to close before they actually do.

ROCguy

November 16th, 2005, 12:54 AM

donbuy

November 16th, 2005, 02:16 PM

oh, NOW you're going to take the D&C seriously? lol.

Anyways, you must have "skipped over" this one.
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051115/NEWS01/511150320/1002/NEWS
This was from the Rochester Business Journal, I never take the D&C seriously. But actually the data is a matter of public record.

ROCguy

November 16th, 2005, 07:29 PM

Donboy...I DARE you to say a positive thing about Rochester....DOUBLE DARE! lol.

donbuy

November 16th, 2005, 07:41 PM

Donboy...I DARE you to say a positive thing about Rochester....DOUBLE DARE! lol.
I guess high school let out early today.

ROCguy

November 16th, 2005, 07:47 PM

a ha ha ha.... I guess I have enough credits to graduate highschool plus 2 college credists, so I only have to go for half the day. Nice try at the cheap shot though.

North_Coast

November 17th, 2005, 12:47 AM

Looking at the operational statistics, Rochester's seems to be geared slightly more to general aviation, given the higher number of aircraft based on the field, and much less commercial traffic than Buffalo. I don't know about other airports around Rochester, but most of Buffalo's general aviation happens at Buffalo Airfield (9G0, about 3 miles south of the big airport, 151 ops/day), Lancaster, Lockport, Potoczak (Pendleton), Hamburg, Orchard Park, etc.

The longest runways in upstate, I believe, belong to Rome-Griffiss Airpark (KRME) - 11820', Plattsburgh Int'l (KPBG) - 11758', Niagara Falls Int'l (KIAG) - 9829', and Syracuse Hancock Int'l (KSYR) - 9003'. NYC's JFK has a 14572'.

Rochester's airport (ROC) accomodates mainly local (Fingerlakes Region) business travel. They also have a couple of great general aviation FBO's on the field, as well as a National Guard Heliport. I learned to fly at ROC and found that the private aviation and commerical traffic were well coordinated, but mixing jet traffic with our training touch-and-goes sometime got hectic. Lining up with the commercial jet traffic during takeoffs and landings took a lot longer at ROC than when flying out of one of the local private fields. Among the private aircraft relievers in the area are Brockport, Williamson and Batavia. Dansville also has a real nice field - a favorite destinaltion for local recreational/sightseeing flyers.

Buffalo/Niagara (BUF) gets the tourist traffic for Niagara Falls, ON and is used heavily by both Canadians and Rochesterians. That's why their emplanement number are so much higher. At one point, BUF/NF was drawing as much as 30% of our local (ROC) travellers. This happened because Southwest realized they could capture business from the entire region by locating at BUF.

Air carriers serving ROC responded by getting much more competitive. I fly frequently - and never on Southwest, and never out of BUF/NF. ROC still has further to go to recapture their own market back from BUF/NF. Bringing a competitor with as many routes as Southwest has into ROC would help. I still have a hard time getting competitve fares to points west, but I can take JetBlue for a quick flight to JFK to get anywhere I need to go.

Niagara Falls has a great but underutilized airport. SYR also has nice runways but it is also underutilzed due to competition from low fare carriers in Rochester and Albany. Southwest flies into Albany, and has had a big positive impact on traffic there - similar to Buffalo.

North_Coast

November 17th, 2005, 01:28 AM

Yeah, they picked the right guy. http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051113/OPINION02/511130320 I'm all "tingly" lol

Johnson NEVER talked with that much enthusiasm, or refered to Rochester as "the city I love". Rochester just made a great choice.

I had reservations about Duffy.. but he seems like an OK choice. He's not as well-travelled and eloquent as Johnson, but his head seems to be in the right place.

I think Johnson had a tremendous passion for the City. He was so passionate, that he sometimes got out of control. For example, the redevelopment of the Port and the reintroduction of Ferry service to Canada was a good idea. Johnson's oriiginal business case was sound.. but the recovery from the political battles with the County (remember the idiot County Executive that preceded Maggie Brooks?) resulted in compromises that resulted in a need to subsidize the service. Johnson's original plan was for two smaller boats - that would have accomodated business travellers a lot better, and would have provided redundancy to compensate for mechanical failures. I've used the Cat to get to Tortonto, but have needed to drive home due to poor schedulling that seemed more geared toward leisure travellers.

Johnson is a visionary - and I hope he continues to work alongside Duffy after January 1.

Duffy's post-election comments about self-defeatism in this community hit home with me. Residents who bitch about Rochester need to travel more. We tend to take our high quality of life here for granted.

sargeantcm

November 17th, 2005, 04:13 AM

^^ During one of my lessons we did a touch-and-go at BUF. Hectic is a good word to describe that, not to mention seeing that massive 150' wide expanse of pavement coming "up" to meet you for the first time!

So far I've only had two lessons, both from Buffalo Airfield. One of these days I'm going to continue and finish it, just need to get the time and the money. When I lived in NH, Concord's airport also seemed to be a nice little airport for that sort of stuff; but it never got off the ground, so to speak. Someday... I am proud to say I flew a plane before I drove a car.

BuffCity

November 17th, 2005, 04:44 AM

Johnson proved himself to be an idiot, hands down...simply put.

How is Rochester a better place now than before Johnson was mayor? and does being passionate about something justify his enormous stupidity?

That man was a mistake and just wasted Roachester's time.

I hope Duffy turns out better...for Rochester's sake.

bjfan82

November 17th, 2005, 05:05 AM

Johnson NEVER talked with that much enthusiasm, or refered to Rochester as "the city I love".

That is terrible that he couldn't atleast say that...how can you govern a city that you don't passionately love...for the love of God, our mayor refers to us as the "greatest city in the world."

donbuy

November 17th, 2005, 02:52 PM

Online help-wanted advertising in the Rochester metropolitan statistical area continued to decline last month, the Conference Board Inc. reported.
Online job ads in the area—which includes Livingston, Monroe, Ontario, Orleans and Wayne counties—were down to 4,400 in October from 4,600 in September and 4,700 in August.
The number represents only 0.82 new, online want ads per 100 people in the work force, compared with 0.87 in September. For the second month, Rochester surpassed only one other metropolitan area—Detroit—in new ads per 100 people in October. In Buffalo, some 8,000 new, online job ads were posted last month, up from 7,700 in September. The Middle Atlantic region—which includes Rochester and Buffalo—last month declined nearly 6 percent to 281,600 ads from 299,000 ads in September.
Nationally, the number of these ads dropped nearly 2 percent to 2 million from 2.04 million in September.

BuffCity

November 17th, 2005, 03:08 PM

I still think that the Ferry misfortunes continue to really shake business in the metro.

donbuy

November 17th, 2005, 04:29 PM

How so?

donbuy

November 17th, 2005, 06:50 PM

Buffalo-Niagara Falls: Since October 2004, the number of jobs has increased by 1,200 or 0.2 percent and the number of private sector jobs has increased by 2,300 or 0.5 percent. The area's unemployment rate was 4.5 percent in October 2005, compared with 5.3 in September and 5.0 in October 2004.

Rochester: Since October 2004, the number of jobs has decreased by 4,400 or 0.9 percent and the number of private sector jobs has decreased by 4,400 or 1.0 percent. The area's unemployment rate was 4.2 percent in October 2005, compared with 4.9 in September and 4.6 in October 2004.

Syracuse: Since October 2004, the number of jobs has increased by 3,200 or 1.0 percent and the number of private sector jobs has increased by 3,700 or 1.4 percent. The area's unemployment rate was 4.2 percent in October 2005, compared with 4.9 in September and 4.7 in October 2004.

ROCguy

November 17th, 2005, 09:35 PM

That is terrible that he couldn't atleast say that...how can you govern a city that you don't passionately love...for the love of God, our mayor refers to us as the "greatest city in the world."

That's what I'm sayin'. Duffy will do a much better job, he is also a lifelong resident of the city.... Johson didn't move to Rochester until he was in his 30's.

ROCguy

November 17th, 2005, 09:39 PM

I had reservations about Duffy.. but he seems like an OK choice. He's not as well-travelled and eloquent as Johnson, but his head seems to be in the right place.

I think Johnson had a tremendous passion for the City. He was so passionate, that he sometimes got out of control. For example, the redevelopment of the Port and the reintroduction of Ferry service to Canada was a good idea. Johnson's oriiginal business case was sound.. but the recovery from the political battles with the County (remember the idiot County Executive that preceded Maggie Brooks?) resulted in compromises that resulted in a need to subsidize the service. Johnson's original plan was for two smaller boats - that would have accomodated business travellers a lot better, and would have provided redundancy to compensate for mechanical failures. I've used the Cat to get to Tortonto, but have needed to drive home due to poor schedulling that seemed more geared toward leisure travellers.

Johnson is a visionary - and I hope he continues to work alongside Duffy after January 1.

Duffy's post-election comments about self-defeatism in this community hit home with me. Residents who bitch about Rochester need to travel more. We tend to take our high quality of life here for granted.

JOHNSON IS THE ONE THAT GAVE THAT BITCH MS. WONG ALL OF THE NEGATIVE STEREOYPES. You are right, that Rochester doesn't seem to realize how good they have it, community wise at least. But while I think Johsnon did have some good ideas (neigbhors building neighbors), he didn't really preform.

ROCguy

November 17th, 2005, 09:40 PM

donbuy

November 17th, 2005, 09:49 PM

Donboy, I get it, you don't like Rochester. Now will you shut up maybe? I mean, your compelete pessimism isn't needed here.

I like Rochester just fine, as a matter of fact I will be there the week after next for a meeting with some people at COMIDA. The people there are very professional and cooperative and I always have a good time when I am there. Don't blame the messanger if the news is not what your tender young eyes WISH it were.

sargeantcm

November 17th, 2005, 09:57 PM

donbuy

November 17th, 2005, 10:01 PM

Snow?

sargeantcm

November 17th, 2005, 10:03 PM

^^ Yup. The city proper and northtowns didn't/hasn't seen much (which is usually the case), but the southtowns and eastern 'burbs in particular got whalloped. No easing into this winter, that's for sure.

Before she got going with the presentation, she was talking about some of the unfavorable nicknames that Chicago has. One of our guys offered to trade some nicknames, she'd never heard any of them. He argued we should have the "windy city" title since we're actually windier (and we've made the Weather Channel at least 3 times this fall for it). So I don't know which one we'll dump on you guys.... :)

donbuy

November 17th, 2005, 10:07 PM

^^ Facts being facts, you do seem to be rubbing it in; whether you realize it or not. At least that's my impression.

On the other hand, yeah, your attitude (for lack of a better word) isn't helping Rochester, but just the same it isn't hurting it either (one opinion from Chicago does not a city break).

Speaking of Chicagoland, we just had a presentation today from someone from StormTrap (they make underground stormwater detention systems) who had never been to Buffalo before. What a good first day to visit lol.

The comment the boy quoted was taken directly from the Rochester Business Journal, I do not think they are biased against Rochester. You cannot intelligently discuss a region's economy without a heavy emphasis on data. To say a new apartment buiding is going up is fine for what it is, but for large metro areas to use anecdotal items is almost totally meaningless unless taken in the context of the total economic situation of an area.

I am sorry if Rochester is currently on a prolonged downward trend but to suggest it isn't in order to avoid hurting the ego of a blogger demeans the whole discussion. Is this intended to be a serious forum or just a 'pep ralley'? If rocguy is only interested in the pep ralley then perhaps he should contact the local Chamber of Commerce. I will admit I have little patience for hometown Harry's such as Rocguy that only want to see their City with rose colored glasses. I also have little patience for nitpickers such as Steel that want to pretend they are experts in areas that they are not, who make statements that they cannot backup with empiracle facts. In my opinion neither type are to be taken seriously.

sargeantcm

November 17th, 2005, 10:17 PM

^^ Whatever the case, we could all use some optimism after the past 40+ years off malaise. I think it would indicate the Rochester may be on the cusp of a minor-moderate slide, but I can't imagine it being as horrific as Buffalo's. The economy seems a bit more balanced than Buffalo's pre-1960, which seems to account for the lag in their drop-off.

Either case, if Upstate, and WNY in particular, is to rebound, we need Rochester. No matter what Buffalo does, Rochester still accounts for probably 35-40% of the urbanized regional population. Pretty hard to make a run at something as a whole when nearly half is dragging behind through the water...

I think the most positive aspect of those stats is the loss of ground experienced by the public sector in Buff and Syr. Hopefully Rochester will jump on that train soon as well... Is Monroe Co. on the brink of an Erie Co.-like meltdown yet? :)

donbuy

November 17th, 2005, 10:20 PM

donbuy

November 17th, 2005, 10:22 PM

^^
I think the most positive aspect of those stats is the loss of ground experienced by the public sector in Buff and Syr. Hopefully Rochester will jump on that train soon as well... Is Monroe Co. on the brink of an Erie Co.-like meltdown yet? :)

Monroe County should be in better shape financially than Erie County as the County Tax Rate in Monroe is nearly double that of Erie County.

ROCguy

November 18th, 2005, 03:21 AM

The comment the boy quoted was taken directly from the Rochester Business Journal, I do not think they are biased against Rochester. You cannot intelligently discuss a region's economy without a heavy emphasis on data. To say a new apartment buiding is going up is fine for what it is, but for large metro areas to use anecdotal items is almost totally meaningless unless taken in the context of the total economic situation of an area.

I am sorry if Rochester is currently on a prolonged downward trend but to suggest it isn't in order to avoid hurting the ego of a blogger demeans the whole discussion. Is this intended to be a serious forum or just a 'pep ralley'? If rocguy is only interested in the pep ralley then perhaps he should contact the local Chamber of Commerce. I will admit I have little patience for hometown Harry's such as Rocguy that only want to see their City with rose colored glasses. I also have little patience for nitpickers such as Steel that want to pretend they are experts in areas that they are not, who make statements that they cannot backup with empiracle facts. In my opinion neither type are to be taken seriously.

"the boy"... will you stop playing it off like I'm some naive little 10 year old? You are maybe 10 years older than me. And in all honestly, if you are going to try and condescend to a teenager over the internet, you are the immature one or " boy" here. You are rubbing it in, you aren't even attempting to be subtle about it. But that's ok, go ahead, because as is apparant, you are coming of as bit of an asshole to more people than just myself. You call it a "pep rally" when it's pure and simple optimism.... and FYI, that's what happens in all of the city DEVELOPMENT forums.

ROCguy

November 18th, 2005, 03:23 AM

ROCguy

November 18th, 2005, 03:25 AM

Monroe County should be in better shape financially than Erie County as the County Tax Rate in Monroe is nearly double that of Erie County.

Monroe county has an over 1 million dollar surplus in the budget at the end of fiscal 2005.

sargeantcm

November 18th, 2005, 04:33 AM

Hey - Erie County had far more than that in savings at the beginning of Giambra's reign. And now look at it.

So maybe Monroe Co should cut the property tax by 75% and wonder where the heck all the money went. And then cut the tourism budget to cover the hole. There should be a Nobel Prize in governing lol.

Glory is fleeting!

ROCguy

November 18th, 2005, 04:41 AM

lol, well, at least Erie County is getting over that ridiculousness, and hopefully their Monroe has learned from their nearby neighbors mistake.

ROCguy

November 18th, 2005, 04:47 AM

Here' some bitter-sweet economic development news for Rochester.

Tech jobs grow here; pay lags

Industry gains could be lost, Monster.com official tells group

Amy Wu
Staff writer

(November 17, 2005) — Productivity and the number of jobs are up in Rochester's technology industry. But area wages in the sector still trail the national average.

Jobs in information technology grew by 6.48 percent in the Rochester area during 2004. That's higher than the national growth average of 2.96 percent, and also trumps the 1 percent growth in all occupations, said Michael Coddington, vice president and general manager of small and medium businesses for Monster.com, the online job search company.

On Wednesday, Coddington, Timothy Wells, associate professor in the information technology department at Rochester Institute of Technology, and Bob Tobin, co-founder of staffing firm Tobin & Associates, discussed trends in Rochester's job market at a packed eBusiness Association seminar.

Coddington said that, according to information from the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics, area wages grew by 1.19 percent during 2004, compared with 2.15 percent nationally.

"People are doing more, but pay isn't keeping pace with productivity," said Coddington, a Rochester native who is based in Boston. While he's hopeful that Rochester's wages will catch up, he said the lower salaries could lead to significant turnover, which could be a problem as the community tries to retain talent in its work force.

Coddington said his current research shows about 55 percent of Rochester's tech work force is willing to move for opportunities, on par with national trends.

That's down from the 60 percent who were willing to move in October 2004, Coddington said. Tobin said a growing number of job seekers are arriving in the Rochester area to return to their roots or to seek a better quality of life.

To prevent brain drain, companies need to focus on their workers and be savvier marketers, he said.

"It's a competitive market," he said. "We need to treat talent the way we treat our customers."

Attendees said the session taught them a lot about workplace trends.

"I'm glad to see local market demand picking up, really pleased. (It's good to) keep track of supply and demand," said Steve Wallace, chief information officer for Constellation Brands.

Always on the search for good workers, Wallace said he found Timothy Wells' presentation on where the technology talent is headed helpful. "It's good to learn that the candidates are out there as opportunities come up," Wallace said.

So basicaly it's good that the jobs are coming, bad that the wages aren't rising as much. The part I bolded was my favorite sentance in the entire paper today.

donbuy

November 18th, 2005, 02:22 PM

Erie County is only getting more rediculous by the day. Do they really think they can tax their way to prosperity?

bjfan82

November 18th, 2005, 02:38 PM

donbuy

November 18th, 2005, 02:44 PM

Rochester Business Journal
November 16, 2005
Manufacturing conditions in New York improved this month, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York’s Empire State Manufacturing survey shows.
The general business conditions index rose to 22.8, up from 12.1 in October. The index level for new orders grew slightly to 25.9. Meanwhile, the shipments index rose to 27.6, up from 23.5 in October.
The unfilled orders index jumped to 15—its highest level since Sept. 2001 and up from 0.41 last month—with 28 percent of the respondents reporting an increase in unfilled orders. The index for number of employees rose to 16.9, and the average work week fell slightly to 11.8.
The future prices paid index retreated to 58.7 from 71.9, with 63 percent of respondents expecting to pay higher prices, and the index for future prices received was 37.5. The future general business conditions index rose 14 points to 46.9, with 55 percent of respondents expecting conditions to improve.

donbuy

November 18th, 2005, 02:47 PM

^ no i don't think they totally have to...the county executive cut taxes too much too quick without cutting jobs in county govt...don't get me wrong we def need to cut taxes and county jobs...but when he slashed taxes so much w/out having any other way to balance the budget, thats how we got in this mess in the first place...now since there are a lot jobs that have been cut, they are gonna have to raise taxes but not to the pre-giambra era rates. So if you compare are taxes from 10 years ago to now, they should still be less (but more compared to the last couple years).

And I believe someone said on this thread or forum that Rochester doesn't have this problem because their taxes are double ours.

Right, I can see from our data that the property tax rate in Monroe County is significantly higher than in Erie at the County level. It appears that Niagara County has the leanest government in the area based upon total local taxes levied per population. They may be aided by tourist to Niagara Falls paying sales tax. But isn't the real problem in upstate NY the property tax for the schools? I know some states, (Michigan is one I believe) have started to fund the Schools using Income Taxes instead of property taxes.

bjfan82

November 18th, 2005, 04:41 PM

you are correct...schools here are paid for by property taxes

ROCguy

November 19th, 2005, 12:50 AM

^ no i don't think they totally have to...the county executive cut taxes too much too quick without cutting jobs in county govt...don't get me wrong we def need to cut taxes and county jobs...but when he slashed taxes so much w/out having any other way to balance the budget, thats how we got in this mess in the first place...now since there are a lot jobs that have been cut, they are gonna have to raise taxes but not to the pre-giambra era rates. So if you compare are taxes from 10 years ago to now, they should still be less (but more compared to the last couple years).

And I believe someone said on this thread or forum that Rochester doesn't have this problem because their taxes are double ours.

That was donboy, he was being sarcastic. Come on now, he wouldn't say anything good about monroe co. lol. He thinks all of Greater Rochester is going to dissipate into nothingness and be lost forever.

Jerome

November 19th, 2005, 03:20 PM

What is the sales tax in Monroe County?

ROCguy

November 23rd, 2005, 02:48 AM

Greece again among safest municipalities

Victoria E. Freile
Staff writer

(November 22, 2005) — GREECE — Greece again has been recognized as one of the safest communities in the nation, town officials announced Monday.

According to Morgan Quitno Press, the Kansas research firm that publishes a book every year listing the safest U.S. cities with populations over 75,000, Greece was ranked as the 21st safest community in America. The ranking is based on the previous year's data; the latest statistic is for the year 2004.

In the 2004 edition (2003 data), the town was 13th on the list; this year 369 communities were ranked.

Town Supervisor John Auberger said he's pleased to see that Rochester's largest suburb is consistently recognized as a safe community.

"This continues to exemplify the work of the men and women of the Greece Police Department," he said.

Morgan Quitno uses the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual crime report to create the list, which is used by communities to promote their areas.

Greece, which dropped from America's third safest in 1997 to 18th safest in 2001, is no exception. The town's safety ranking has been used in past years on bumper stickers.

In 2003, the FBI failed to published the town's records, an error that kept Greece off the list.

Greece Police Chief Merritt Rahn said he was proud of the town's status and explained that the report helps him gauge how Greece officers can improve.

For the second straight year, the nation's safest community is Newton, Mass., a suburb of Boston, and the most dangerous is Camden, N.J.

Morgan Quitno also ranked 330 metropolitan areas in the nation and two upstate communities among the safest — Glens Falls, Warren County, is third and Binghamton, Broome County, is 13th.

ROCguy

November 23rd, 2005, 02:54 AM

Group ponders downtown plan

Brooks convenes panel to talk about Renaissance Square design

Joseph Spector
Staff writer

(November 22, 2005) — Sitting around a U-shaped table Monday, nearly 30 community leaders looked at the Styrofoam model before them.

The model depicts a new downtown Rochester, a city center anchored by a mammoth project aimed at revitalizing the city's struggling core.

The project, as all in the room already knew, is Renaissance Square. And each member of the group — from developers, planners, arts leaders and community activists — may all have a stake in it when construction is slated to begin in late 2007.

So Monroe County Executive Maggie Brooks brought them together for the first time Monday to discuss the $230 million project and seek their support for it.

"We're at the point now where we need community cheerleaders, community liaisons," she told the crowd huddled in a government conference room.

Renaissance Square calls for building a Monroe Community College campus, performing arts center and bus terminal on one-square block on East Main Street between North Clinton Avenue and St. Paul Street.

First announced in January 2004, the project would be the largest in downtown history and is a combined effort of the city, county, MCC and the Rochester-Genesee Regional Transportation Authority.

But Brooks, who is leading the effort, has been seeking community input about its designs. The county has held four public meetings, with more planned next year, and has formed five advisory committees to work on various parts of the project.

On Monday, Brooks convened the first meeting of a "community leaders" panel.

For the most part, the group was complimentary.

"This is a cornerstone to saving downtown," said local banker Joseph Rulison, chairman of the St. John Fisher College board of trustees and former chairman of the county's Industrial Development Agency.

The designs have changed in recent months. Once planned to be built underground, the bus terminal would now be built at street level.

And instead of originally sitting on East Main Street, the terminal would be built behind the MCC campus and the performing arts center — both of which will be facing East Main. A glass concourse lined with shops and other amenities would run through the middle of the property leading to the terminal.

John Lovenheim, a city neighborhood activist, warned that Renaissance Square shouldn't be built exclusive of the city's other development needs. The neighboring Sibley Building and Midtown Plaza are half-empty retail centers and could face further decline if Renaissance Square pulls away shoppers and businesses, he said.

"It's just going to create a new Midtown and we'll have two wastelands around it," he cautioned.

The biggest immediate decision facing planners is the scope of the performing arts center. Arts groups have recommended three theaters — a 2,800-seat theater mostly for traveling Broadway-style shows, an 1,800-seat theater and a 300-seat one.

But there has been growing discussion about whether all three would fit at the corner of North Clinton and East Main.

Some have suggested that the medium-sized theater be built down the street at East Main and Gibbs streets, across from Eastman Theatre.

Brooks said there is no final decision, but a report laying out the options may be released by year's end.

blangjr21

November 23rd, 2005, 08:42 PM

I worry about what will happen to the already established, and recently renovated auditorium center with all this talk of three seperate performance facilities...but hey, if the demand is there, build em!

ROCguy

November 23rd, 2005, 10:59 PM

HEY! Another Rochester forumer! Looks like you've been on here a few months, nice to see a post from you. I love your signature.... Anyways; I think that, unlike the ferry, most people in Rochester are 100% behind renessiance center.

bjfan82

November 23rd, 2005, 11:18 PM

does F11Roch post on here? I don't recall ever seeing him on here....he's been holding it down for Rochester on SSP.

ROCguy

November 24th, 2005, 12:14 AM

Never even heard of him.

But by the way, I found the article I was talking about a while ago. Donboy can "sit on it" after he reads this.

Cause for optimism

Indicators are positive for a resurgence of the region's economy.

(October 21, 2005) — As Eastman Kodak Co. struggles to reposition itself in the globalized, highly competitive marketplace, it's important to remember that progress is being made toward reducing local dependence on the onetime photo giant.

A recently conducted M&T Bank survey of 50 mid-size businesses that averaged $30 million in sales found that business activity was stronger than last quarter's.

The survey also found that local businesses are expecting growth in the near future, though it's likely to be slow.

These are all positive economic indicators, in addition to expected steady growth in service sector fields such as health care. Joel Seligman, the new president of the University of Rochester, was particularly optimistic about the contribution of his school's medical research arm during a talk this week sponsored by the Rochester Downtown Development Corp. The university, which has become one of the region's top two employers with 17,000 workers, has produced more than two dozen spinoff bio-technical businesses and hundreds of new jobs in recent years. Seligman is optimistic that more such businesses will be forthcoming.

Meantime, though Kodak reported more than $1 billion in third-quarter losses this week, the situation may not be as bleak as it seems. Foremost, sales jumped 5 percent and digital revenue grew 47 percent to $1.9 billion, topping film revenue for the first time. No question, the revenue figures bode well for Kodak's ongoing efforts to transition to a major digital imaging player.

Moreover, $900 million of the $1 billion-plus losses are attributable to accounting rules that required Kodak to write off deferred tax breaks from past operating losses.

Some Wall Street analysts, however, remain skeptical about Kodak's future. Others believe that as the company shores up its management, it will become more attractive to buyers, raising the prospect of its sale.

Consequently, the future is filled with uncertainty for both the local economy and Kodak. But for now at least, with Kodak focused on remaking itself as a digital giant and local businesses starting to percolate, there's reason for measured optimism.

blangjr21

November 24th, 2005, 05:00 PM

yep, rochester forumer for sure!

anyways, yea i would agree that the region is 100% behind the ren center...its just a matter of time before we sell that ferry.

ROCguy

November 24th, 2005, 05:37 PM

No, I don't think they will sell the fairy. The fairy could actually work if some of the new things being proposed actually happen. The smartest thing they could do is to put a casino on the ferry instead of downtown. But if it keeps on going the way it has for the past few months, that thing is history.

blangjr21

November 26th, 2005, 11:41 PM

Well some news in the paper today about the Pae Tec Park situation, not any real good news though, just reporting that they still haven't secured the funds for phase II...check it out at www.rochesterdandc.com

ROCguy

November 27th, 2005, 05:52 PM

Certainly some good development news for Rochester.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051127/NEWS01/511270333

Housing options expanding in core of Rochester

City hopes new, planned units will be one force that drives regrowth in hub

Brian Sharp
Staff writer

(November 27, 2005) — Paul Curtis was looking for something different when a job transfer prompted him to leave Manhattan for Rochester in 1985.

"I wanted to go from a 22nd-floor condo with a view to living in the country with some land," he said of what led him to Mendon. "I've been living in big cities all my life and always lived in apartments or condos, and I said, 'Time for a change.'"

This fall, that time came again. Separated from his wife, Curtis gave up his 3 acres for 1,000 square feet downtown at Corn Hill Landing.

"I wanted to go back to the city," the 58-year-old said of his apartment. "When I was living out in Mendon, there wasn't a great compulsion, except for special events or special activities, to go downtown. But once you're downtown ..."

Rochester is seeing the convergence of a number of downtown housing developments, including some such as Corn Hill that have been years in the making. About 300 new units are in the works, expected to expand center city offerings beyond 2,500 lofts, apartments and condominiums in the next year. Demand is strong. And officials say the downtown population, estimated near 3,300 inside the Inner Loop, might be nearing the critical mass needed to draw more services and retail, from a grocery store to trendy clothing shops.

"As the next wave of units comes online, we're waiting to see where that tipping point is," said Heidi Zimmer-Meyer, president of the Rochester Downtown Development Corp. "We could be getting toward that number, but we're not quite there yet."

Those moving downtown are coming from outlying city neighborhoods and the suburbs, particularly Brighton, Penfield and Pittsford. They're students and empty nesters, young professionals and retirees. Some center city residents are looking to downsize. Others, like Curtis, want the flavor of the East End or St. Paul Quarter.

Curtis, a former Eastman Kodak Co. marketing manager who now is director of business development at Archer Communications, said he likes to walk and shop and hopes more retail options emerge soon. For now, he enjoys being within walking distance or a short drive of restaurants, museums, theaters and the Blue Cross Arena at the Community War Memorial.

"It's close. It's convenient to everything, within minutes," Curtis said. "There's nightlife, there's activities. ... I like that feeling. I like the idea."

Developing midsized cities

While larger cities like Chicago and Cleveland have long focused on downtown living options, medium-sized cities such as Rochester, Buffalo and Syracuse have only recently become invested in such development, said Robert M. Silverman, associate professor in the State University of New York at Buffalo's department of urban and regional planning. The city has encouraged housing construction with financial support, including tax breaks and loans. The push began with Symphony Terrace, six luxury townhouses completed in 1998 at Gibbs and Grove streets. But it really gained steam about five years ago with 28 townhouses and 49 apartments called Chevy Place on East Avenue.

Construction on the most elaborate project to date got under way in spring 2004 and should be completed by May 2006. At $15 million, The Sagamore on East offers commercial space and 23 condominiums at East Avenue and Scio Street. The base price for the seventh-floor penthouses was $630,000, with another $150,000 in possible add-ons, said Pat Tobin, who is overseeing construction. The first residents began moving in two weeks ago. All but two condos have sold.

"We're probably just behind the eight ball a little," Tobin said of meeting downtown housing demand. "We're doing it in an amazingly fast way."

Unlike Tobin, most developers are converting vacant office space, spurred on by the city's Commercial Urban Exemption, which provides sizable tax abatement on improvements that convert center city properties into commercial and residential use. The program, begun in 2003, is slated to expire in March.

The mix of housing has, so far, varied in style, size and price — from The Sagamore on the high end to plans for 500-square-foot apartments that rent for $500 a month. What is relatively new to the market are the lofts, which rival apartments in number, each accounting for nearly half the current development, according to Zimmer-Meyer. A loft typically implies a large, open space with few walls in a converted commercial building.

Largely missing are families. Zimmer-Meyer explains: "We have the mindset that, to have kids, you have to have a yard, and downtown homes are not set up like that."

Silverman said families are often left out of the downtown housing equation. The goal must be to attract a diversity in lifestyle and income to trigger development of "things people take for granted in the suburbs, like the video rental, dry cleaner, day care," he said.

Corn Hill Landing, for example, includes space for restaurants, a bakery, a dry cleaner and a wine shop along with an optometrist and eyewear business.

Developers say downtown's momentum hinges on what happens with Midtown Plaza and Renaissance Square, a proposal combining a $230 million performing arts center, bus terminal and Monroe Community College campus.

For now, the housing construction remains in many ways an experiment.

"We have other properties on State Street which we are contemplating developing into additional housing. We could do another 16 units," said Singer Real Estate managing partner Doug Musinger, who is rolling out four new apartments on State Street near City Hall.

"Before we jump in headfirst, we're kind of putting the big toe in. We want to ascertain how quickly they rent, how good the market is and what kind of rents we can garner."

New dwellers diverse

Pamela Danger, 52, and her husband, Reinhard, 60, moved in April from Pittsford to the Temple Building downtown, which completed its second phase of redevelopment last fall and offers 39 units. The Dangers' daughter is in graduate school, and they decided to downsize, leaving behind a home for a 14th-floor loft that is about half the size.

They chose the East End because it was home to their favorite theaters and other entertainment options.

"We just about cut our house in half," Pamela Danger said. "We had a house sale and sold everything we owned down to the last dish. The only thing we kept was the bed and study desk and grand piano. ... After 25 years of marriage, it was one of the most difficult things I've had to do."

They put the china and other heirlooms in storage. She misses barbecuing, but there are no second thoughts.

"Our home was very traditional and a loft lends itself to more of a transitional feel, so it's working out quite well," Pamela Danger said. "It's almost renewing or cleansing."

Kevin VanValkenburgh, 29, grew up in Greece before moving to Phoenix and, most recently, Albany. He returned to Rochester and moved in with a friend on Cascade Drive, just inside the Inner Loop's western edge, then down to the Corn Hill area as he waited for Corn Hill Landing to begin leasing.

"There's a lot of stuff to do downtown," he said, whether it's the Geva Theatre or East End nightlife and restaurants. "I really enjoy hockey. I can see Blue Cross Arena from my apartment. My bank is right downtown."

His list is endless, all getting to the point that there is nowhere in the Rochester area he would rather live.

"It's a super-easy commute for me," said VanValkenburgh, a technician at John Holtz BMW in Henrietta. "I'm not in the traffic flow at all. It's relaxing."

Going forward

Jim Constanza is president of Constanza Enterprises, which renovated the Temple Building to offer 39 loft apartments. When that two-phase project began, the group was left to guess about the market that today is starting to define itself.

His renters have a median age of 38 to 40. Many are empty nesters. About half are younger, unmarried and have been in the work force five or six years. While the larger lofts have worked out well, he has learned the market's "sweet spot" is 800 to 1,100 square feet, for which rents can translate to a solid $1 per square foot.

"My position has kind of been that it may be coming to the end of the first phase of the boom," Constanza said. "For the second phase to materialize, we've got to do some really interesting things. ... We've got to do things that will impress people who otherwise may not consider downtown as an option to live."

He points to basic things like parking and traffic flow, but also opportunities with Midtown Plaza and Renaissance Square.

Vlad Schneyder agrees. He is overseeing a $1.5 million conversion of the Davie Building on North Water Street. His New York City firm, with other properties in Buffalo and around New York, began work this month and plans to put 36 smaller, low-rent apartments on the market in April.

"The last 24 months, occupancy rates certainly have increased," said Schneyder, whose firm also has rentals at 35 Chestnut St. But Rochester is not unique. "The shift that we've seen in the past four, five, six years, even in New York City, urban-style living is more in style right now."

What downtown needs are services. Schneyder suggests an upscale grocery or, in addition to The Little, which specializes in independent films, a second theater offering more first-run, mainstream movies. The big projects are needed, too.

"Having a ghost town in the middle of Rochester is certainly a detriment right now," he said, "a tremendous detriment that hopefully will go away."

blangjr21

November 29th, 2005, 05:54 AM

It was a very well written article with lots of good news in it...the art craft optical building will be my favorite city development in recent memory...will look very neat hopefully!

donbuy

November 29th, 2005, 03:17 PM

I will be in Rochester Thursday it will be interesting to hear COMIDA's opinion on this study.

Rochester is among worst in job losses

Rochester and many other American inner cities continue to shed jobs despite years of federal attention designed to bolster their economies.

Nearly half of the country's 82 largest municipalities lost jobs from 1995 to 2003, according to a new study by the Initiative for a Competitive Inner City. By comparison, only one of the surrounding metropolitan areas lost jobs during the same period.

Rochester is clustered near the bottom of the 40 cities that lost jobs, along with Miami; Grand Rapids, Mich.; and Detroit. The study generated negative publicity for Rochester, including a mention on Paul Harvey's nationally syndicated radio show.

According to the Department of Labor Statistics, the city of Rochester lost 15,000 jobs between 1995 and 2003, or 15 percent. This is the third highest in the nation after Detroit at 39,285 and Miami at 16,933 both much larger cities than Rochester.

'Sobering' data

The data about inner cities is "sobering," said Michael Porter, a Harvard business professor who conducted the study for the Initiative for a Competitive Inner City. "It suggests that there are relatively few inner cities that are thriving in the sense of job growth." Porter and his team analyzed how many jobs were added or lost in inner cities with more than 50,000 residents. They found that only 10 added jobs at a higher rate than surrounding metropolitan areas. All 40 inner cities that lost jobs did so faster than surrounding areas.

Among the best-performing cities: Jersey City, N.J.; Long Beach, Calif.; Tulsa, Okla.; and Anaheim, Calif.

Among the worst: Detroit; Grand Rapids, Mich.; Rochester; and Miami.

Economic development experts agree that tax incentives alone will not revive urban areas with depressed economies.

The cities should improve services and schools, build affordable housing and enact reasonable business regulations, Harvard's Porter said.

'No silver bullet'

"There's no silver bullet," he said. "To get it right, you've got to work on the fundamentals."

The danger in ignoring the problem is evident in France's recent nationwide rioting. Chronic urban unemployment was among the often-cited underlying causes of that unrest.

The Associated Press

blangjr21

November 29th, 2005, 08:34 PM

Very depressing news, thats for sure...didn't even want to read that article, but hopefully things are going to be turning around

ROCguy

November 30th, 2005, 01:10 AM

Yeah, that was a depressubg though not surprising article. All of Rochester's jobs are in the suburbs. Think about it, Paychex is in Penfield, Kodak is mostly in Greece, Xerox is mostly in Greece, Baucsh & Lomb is sort of in Gates mostly (not as much any more), UR and it's medical facilities are the only major employers (17,500 employees) that are actually in the City of Rochester. Most of the new companies being formed by former Kodak employees are in the suburbs too. Except for the restaurants, there has been a boom of restaraunts (and now high end housing) opening downtown...... by the way Donboy, I'm really lovin' how you waited until the first day of bad news comes out on the D&C to quote it.

kirkunit

November 30th, 2005, 01:30 AM

Any way to find out where Buffalo lies on that list? It has to be near Rochester and the bottom.

donbuy

November 30th, 2005, 02:31 PM

Any way to find out where Buffalo lies on that list? It has to be near Rochester and the bottom.
Buffalo was not at the bottom with Rochester, probably due to major hiring at local banks and support services downtown during the period studied. The chart I saw had Buffalo at number 53 of the 83 municpalities with inner cities greater than 75,000 population. Syracuse was not included in the study. The other 17 of the 100 studied were under 75,000 in population.

donbuy

November 30th, 2005, 02:41 PM

Rain doesn't dampen fervor of UAW picketing at Delphi

Amy Wu
Staff writer

(November 30, 2005) — Despite Tuesday's bad weather, about 220 Delphi hourly workers and retirees joined early morning and afternoon informational picket lines outside the company's Lexington Avenue plant.

The informational picketing, part of a nationwide protest, was intended to highlight what the union says is an unfair plan by management of the bankrupt auto parts maker to severely cut workers' pay and benefits.

The 6 a.m. picketing drew more than 120 workers, said John Huber, president of United Auto Workers Local 1097, which represents almost 1,500 workers locally, most at the Lexington plant. The UAW plans a rally and news conference Thursday at the Diplomat Party House in Gates.

donbuy

November 30th, 2005, 07:17 PM

North_Coast

November 30th, 2005, 11:29 PM

Rochester’s help-wanted advertising index continued to decline in October, the Conference Board Inc. reported.
The index fell to 14 last month from 16 in September and 20 a year ago. The index in Syracuse, however, has climbed in recent months from 72 in September to 76 last month.
Nationally, the help-wanted index remained unchanged in October at 38, but was up from 37 a year ago. Some 57 percent of labor markets showed rising want-ad volume, the Conference Board reported, up from 41 percent in September, but down from 75 percent a year ago.

How is the index defined?

Is the index constrained to just the city proper? Only 1/5 of our metro lives in the city. Not that the city is a bad place to live, but more because the suburbs here are a GREAT place to live. Any statistics based soley on the City of Rochester are irrelavent when applied to the metro.

I work in the "high tech" sector in Rochester, and several of the local firms I deal with are desparate for engineers.

ROCguy

November 30th, 2005, 11:36 PM

North Coast, don't listen to Donboy, and don't let him get to you. He will say anything negative about Rochester he can and NOTHING possitive. Notice all of the posative develpment news that I have posted and how the whiney little wus wouldn't even acknowledge them. Take anything he says with a HUGE grain of salt. He thinks he knows everything. You are right, the high tech sector in Rochester is doing very well and ANYONE in Rochester could tell you that . Donboy must have had a bad garbage plate or bad swim at Charlotte, because he deffinetly has issues with our great city (and even greater metro area)

donbuy

December 1st, 2005, 02:18 PM

How is the index defined?

Is the index constrained to just the city proper? Only 1/5 of our metro lives in the city. Not that the city is a bad place to live, but more because the suburbs here are a GREAT place to live. Any statistics based soley on the City of Rochester are irrelavent when applied to the metro.

I work in the "high tech" sector in Rochester, and several of the local firms I deal with are desparate for engineers.

You cannot judge an entire labor market by the shortage of Engineers. Even Detroit which is one of the 3 or 4 major cities currently doing as bad as Rochester economically has many firms with a difficulty attracting and retaining engineers. You picked a great profession to be in! But as you can see from this article in this mornings paper your profession seems to be an isolated oasis.

Ontario County's largest health system is cutting positions and laying off 25 workers because of financial losses.

The cuts by Thompson Health will likely affect Canandaigua's F.F. Thompson Hospital, which is the system's largest business and one of the county's largest hospitals.

Thompson Health, the largest employer in Ontario County, announced the cutbacks as part of a three-year plan to turn around its finances. The system will eliminate 47.5 full-time equivalent positions, through layoffs, attrition, vacancies and reduction in overtime, said spokeswoman Elaine Jackson.

The laid-off workers, in clinical and service areas, account for almost 2 percent of Thompson's 1,380 work force, said Jackson, who would not say which positions were affected.

Jackson also refused to detail the system's finances. But the hospital lost a total of about $4.8 million in operations from 2002 to 2004, state records show. Jackson said that trend has continued in 2005.

One physician who sees patients at F.F. Thompson said he was concerned. "But whether or not I'm worried, I don't know yet," said Eric Beyer, pediatrics chief at the Canandaigua Medical Group. "I don't know which job cuts they're specifically talking about."

***

You can go to the conference board website to see how the index is defined or if you prefer you can contact the Rochester Business Journal which posted the article. The survey is standardized and is a valid comparison used by businesses throughout the United States. It is for the entire regional labor market and not limited to the "City Proper". Seldom are these surveys, which we use extensively in our research limited to the City proper.

I will actually be in Rochester later today and look forward to some of the meetings we have set up with local government officials as well as with a couple of developers.

donbuy

December 1st, 2005, 03:10 PM

A monthly survey by the National Association of Purchasing Management-Rochester Inc. shows.

Some 20 percent of businesses reported better conditions this month, compared with 23 percent in October.

Employment declined this month, NAPM-Rochester reported. Twenty-seven percent of respondents reported more employment in November, down from 46 percent last month. Some 60 percent reported no change in employment, up from 54 percent in October.
Thirteen percent of businesses reported less employment in November. In October, no respondents reported less employment.

It should be noted that this survey is not weighted by the size of the organization thus a report of lower employment by Kodak (which could be in the thousands) is equally offset by an increase of one employee at a smaller facility. Thus this report is not usefull in projecting total jobs or in comparing one city to another, It is most useful in comparing a city to itself.

Jerome

December 1st, 2005, 04:19 PM

North_Coast

December 1st, 2005, 05:13 PM

Artiicle below is from the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle.

My comments: The orignal path of the canal systems throughout downtown Rochester are still evident today. The 490 expressway and the downtown inner-loop follow the old canal bed. The aqueduct that carried the canal over the Genesee River downtown is now the Broad Street Bridge, which was built over the aqueduct. The lower level of the bridge is an abandoned subway station that was built in the aqueduct. The aqueduct continues past the bridge under Broad Street for a couple of miles, then opens to another abandoned subway station that the City has proposed to fill in. Preservationist are fighting the proposal, and its likely the City will abandon the plan to fill it.

Here's the article. See link below article for picture.
------------------------
Tap Economic Potential of Canal-River Waterway

By Michael Hess

(December 1, 2005) — Close your eyes and take a trip for a moment. Imagine hopping aboard a water taxi at Corn Hill Landing, or the new Brooks Landing across from University of Rochester and riding across the Genesee River and into a lock where it joins the new Rochester Erie Canal north into downtown.

Making a left turn onto the Broad Street Aqueduct, you cruise over the Genesee River and west through the city. You can step off at — or within a block or two of — restaurants, hotels, theaters, apartments, the Riverside Convention Center, Blue Cross Arena, Frontier Field and Paetec Park.

Imagine visitors being able to water-shuttle into downtown directly from the hotels and shops already located on the present canal in historic Pittsford and our other picture-book canal towns.

In the winter, imagine skating through a downtown wonderland, sheltered from the wind by the canal walls, stopping for hot chocolate or a holiday ice light show at the new Inner Harbor.

The possibilities are endless, and developers and investors would fall over each other to get a piece of such action.

This is not fantasy. The Erie Canal is here, its old downtown route was here before, and much of its foundation remains in place. Urban canal/river development has been done with virtually 100 percent success in other cities around the world. It is the key to our future.

Canal redevelopment, and in particular the proposal to re-water the original downtown canal bed, can do far more for our region, and faster, than any other recovery plan on the table.

Most thriving, "destination" cities in the world have vibrant waterfronts as a key feature, and they are not limited to major coastal cities or warm climates. Indianapolis; San Antonio; Cleveland; Providence, R.I.; and other Rochester-like communities have exploited their water resources with resounding success.

In one of the most notable and inspiring efforts, Oklahoma City built the 1-mile long Bricktown Canal specifically to spur downtown development. When it opened in 1999 there was one restaurant on its banks; four years later there were around 20 restaurants, shops and clubs on the canal, and exploding development in the surrounding area. By 2003 its water taxi company (which was profitable within three months of launching) had carried more than half-a-million passengers.

All of the current and proposed high-visibility projects —high-speed ferry, casino, High Falls — would have a shot at success if they were part of a unified, bigger-picture plan to draw people here — and our world-famous canal is the ticket.

But sadly, the current plan for the existing, historic downtown canal bed is to spend $20 million to fill the former subway tunnel portion of it with dirt. The lack of vision and imagination is astonishing. If all the time, money and energy spent on disparate projects and divergent interests had been funneled into the treasure already in our back yard, we would be well on the road to prosperity already. Rochester exists because of the canal and can be revived by it. Google "Grasso/Zimmer" and "Bricktown Canal" to see how Rochester can become an American dream city, and start a public discussion that will make this our top priority.

Hess is president/CEO, RoadWired of Henrietta.

LINK TO ARTICLE: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051201/OPINION02/512010341/1039/OPINION

Jerome

December 1st, 2005, 06:01 PM

donbuy

December 2nd, 2005, 03:11 AM

Just got back to my hotel in Buffalo from an interesting day in Rochester. It was great to see first hand some of the plans that they have for the Medley Center. Hopefully they can land a couple of decent tenants to start the turnaround. They are aiming for mid-level retail similar to the Monroeville Mall outside of Pittsburgh but on a smaller scale. The demographics plus Eastview preclude most upscale tenants for Medley.

Heard from the locals about the problems facing the Fast Ferry and the old Kodak complex that just went up for sale again. Apparently a lot of toxins that scared off the current owner. Government officials are talking about State aid to help the cleanup. The fast ferry will likely sale out of town if not next year than soon after, the incoming crowd want to cut their losses on that one. It is more of an economic hindrence to keep the ferry than to dump it anyway.

Other than that mostly a meet 'n greet with the folks I talk to on the phone.

ROCguy

December 2nd, 2005, 04:29 AM

donbuy

December 6th, 2005, 02:32 PM

wada_guy

December 6th, 2005, 03:06 PM

Great article but it sounds like quite a pipe dream. If it will cost $20 million to fill it in, the costs of doing the outlined plan must be in the hundreds of millions. Silver bullets like this do not work. Ask Buffalo, or ask your fast ferry people. Then there is the idea that Rochester could ever be a vacation destination, I do not think it could. What would be the compelling reason to go there? It's not close enough to Niagara Falls, it does not have nationally significant architecture, sporting, or entertainment events. Is there another non-coastal city of 200,000 that is a tourist draw, especially a manufacturing city in a cold climate, without skiing?

You guys shoudn't sell your city short. Who would have thought that Baltimore would be a vacation destination? For those of you old enough to remember, in the 60's Baltimore, Newark, and Detroit were the butt of just about every urban joke. That's certainly not the case with Baltimore anymore.

We looked at our assets and we built upon them. In our case, it was the harbor and our history. In your case, the canal sounds like a great asset. How many other US cities have a "real" canal system AND history? People love that stuff.

Our downtown is absolutly booming. I never thought I would see 6 million dollar condos being constructed in downtown Baltimore. But I have! http://www.harborluxury.com/ I never thought I would see a return of retail downtown. But I have! I never thought the Inner Harbor would transform from a rotted warf district to one of the premier urban entertainment areas in the country, but it has.

What your town needs is a vision based on consensus of what you want your city to be. Then your leaders need to act on that vision and create a public/private partnership to make it happen. In our case, our citizens were our own worse enemy. Harborplace almost was voted down in referendum in the 80's. :wave: !

sargeantcm

December 6th, 2005, 03:38 PM

...In our case, our citizens were our own worse enemy...

Sounds like Buffalo and Rochester. I think I'm the only person in either city that firmly believes we need to LOSE more people. Flush these idiots out to Phoenix and St. Petersburg so we can build our cities the way we want without their negative interference.

North_Coast

December 6th, 2005, 06:38 PM

The Hype from the Monroe County politicians and the D&C;

Business investment in the county is up 90 percent over last year, Monroe County Executive Maggie Brooks said Monday, resulting in 3,700 new jobs and the retention of thousands more jobs.
Total investment tied to county incentive programs stood at $358 million through November, Brooks told more than 575 people during a luncheon hosted by the Rochester Downtown Development Corp. She said negotiations currently under way could result in another $40 million investment and 200 new jobs next year.
"There is true momentum when we talk about economic development in this community," Brooks said, adding later: "We're on the horizon for a new beginning."

The Facts from New York State;

Rochester: Since October 2004, the number of jobs has decreased by 4,400 or 0.9 percent and the number of private sector jobs has decreased by 4,400 or 1.0 percent.

Local employment data is heavily skewed by layoffs at Kodak. Kodak is continuing to deal with a "buggy whip" transition of their business (i.e. extinction of film), in technologies that the "blue-collar" film and paper production workforce will have a hard time being retrained for. Many of the workforce with limited skills will either have to settle for service industry jobs, or leave the area.

Meanwhile, the technology infrastructure continues to do well here - especially the companies with military contracts - the biggest being Harris RF Communications, ITT Space Systems, Ultralife,etc. Mainstays like Xerox and Bausch and Lomb have been doing quite well. Large optics companies like Thalles Optem, Navitar, QED Technolgies, Melles Griot, Optical Gaging Products etc. have also been enjoying a resurgence in business.

In the service sector, companies like Paychex and Constellation brands continue to expand. Constellation brands has been in aquisition mode over the past few years, and today Constellation Brands is the largest wine manufacturer/distributor in the world.

As you can tell, I feel upbeat about the regional economy.

ROCguy

December 6th, 2005, 09:07 PM

North Coast, save your breath. You are absolutely right and not at all alone, and everyone who really cares about Rochester (like me) knows that fact. Again, Donboy is a little nerdy loser who obviously has a bone to pick with Rochester. The area is doing much better echonomicaly in 2005 that it was a few years ago. Count out Kodak (which most Rochesterians do) and the Rochester economy is already doing outstandingly better. Look into kodaks future as a more digital company (Kodak took first place ahead of Sony this year in digital camera sales, with 20.8% of the US market), and the prospects are even better. You ask almost anyone who actualy LIVES there if they think the area is doing better than it has in recent years and they will say yes. Don't even pay any attention to whiney little Donboy. Oh yeah, and those "facts from new york state" are from Fiscal 2004, that was from March 04-march 05 things have changed. The 3700 were gained in the first 3 quarters of fiscal '05. Nice try though.... Oh yeah, I like how you also left out the last part of the artcle you little worm. Proving that your retarded comment "housing development is down" was total buslshit......

Here's the WHOLE article.

Business gets bright report

Brooks, Duffy give forecasts for 2006 to 575 leaders at luncheon

Brian Sharp
Staff writer

(December 6, 2005) — Business investment in the county is up 90 percent over last year, Monroe County Executive Maggie Brooks said Monday, resulting in 3,700 new jobs and the retention of thousands more jobs.

Total investment tied to county incentive programs stood at $358 million through November, Brooks told more than 575 people during a luncheon hosted by the Rochester Downtown Development Corp. She said negotiations currently under way could result in another $40 million investment and 200 new jobs next year.

"There is true momentum when we talk about economic development in this community," Brooks said, adding later: "We're on the horizon for a new beginning."

She was to have been joined at the leadership luncheon by Mayor-elect Robert Duffy. Instead, Duffy, who was with his wife as she underwent back surgery, appeared in a recorded video message. Patricia Malgieri, former head of the Center for Governmental Research, spoke on his behalf. Malgieri said she is aiding in his transition process as she did with retiring Mayor William A. Johnson Jr.'s administration, when Johnson took office in 1994.

Duffy spoke of collaboration and cooperation with the county. Duffy said he continues to assemble "the best talent possible" and added that, once in office, he would require weekly progress reports from each department head.

Malgieri added that with the promise of diversity, the Duffy administration will "look like the city."

"This will be a very inclusive process," she said of the transition. "Ideas are welcome."

Brooks' message omitted reports of Kodak layoffs, and the closing of Valeo Electrical Systems Inc. and Chase-Pitkin stores.

Instead, she listed new businesses and expansions at Bausch & Lomb, Xerox and MWI Inc., to name a few.

She said people must read beyond the headlines, and sometimes between the lines.

Highlighting another economic indicator, she said new construction during the past year hit $594 million in Monroe County, up 16 percent over 2004, with one-third resulting from new houses.

But gee, mr. Knowitall Donboy said this in another forum.

It is not the same thing at all, Nowhere in the D&C do they tell the reader that the total number of jobs has declined by 4,400 during the year. Instead they try to imply by using data gathered from a different survey that the economy is stable or improving. The D&C is the only major paper in the State that does not report the facts. Even the Rochester Business Journalk tells the complete story.

The year to year employment number coupled with the declining Labor Force and Job Count simply means that those they have found other jobs found them outside of the Rochester Area. They are likely temporarily commuting to the Buffalo or Syracuse area. After all from places such as Genesee or Orleans Counties it is less than an hours drive to work in Niagara Falls or Amherst. The idea that Orleans County should even be a part of the Rochester metro is debatable as most non governmental services such as Arbitron or Nielson include it under Buffalo. Genesee County was removed from the Rochester metro last year for similar reasons and is also included under Bufffalo for Arbitron and Nielson.

But to clue you in the employed data is by place of residence while the job total is by place of employment. It is obvious by the labor force and employment data as well as the decline in new housing starts that the Rochester area is in a slide that the Rochester paper does not wish to address.

I think your Rochester comments are generally off topic as this thread is titled Buffalo Gains Jobs. I suggest if you cannot cope with relevant facts and comparisons you should not put your sensitive eyes to my posts. Skip over them if you wish. It's your computer you can self edit what you read.

I'M TOTALY CALLING BULLSHIT ON YOU DONBOY.... BULL SHIT!!!!

Anyways, here's an article that points out an interesting fact. Homesale rates in the City of Rochester are actualy HIGHER than that of Monroe County as a whole. Do you think this is yet another indication that suburbanites are finally starting to invest and move into the city?...

Home sales decline in November, still up for the year

Frank Bilovsky
Staff writer

(December 6, 2005) — Sales of existing single family homes declined in November from the same month a year ago in the 11-county Rochester area, but sales for the year remained ahead of last year's numbers.

With a month to go this year, closings are at 12,209, 3.5 percent ahead of last year's pace. And dollar volume of sales is at $1.654 billion, 8.8 percent higher than last year's $1.521 billion, according to data compiled by the Greater Rochester Association of Realtors Inc.

But November's 1,109 closings were 4.9 percent below the 1,166 recorded in November 2004, and 5.9 percent lower than the 1,178 closings recorded in October.

November's median sales price of $113,000 was 8.7 percent higher than the same month a year ago and 0.9 percent above the previous month.

The average sale price so far this year is $135,520, an increase of 5.1 percent over the $128,975 reported for the first 11 months of 2004.

November listings were at 1,476, up 4.2 percent from November 2004. But those listings were down a whopping 22.1 percent from October.

So far this year, sales in Monroe County are up 2.8 percent at 8,094 houses while Rochester sales have increased 4.3 percent to 1,807 homes.

Susie

December 7th, 2005, 03:12 AM

You ask almost anyone who actualy LIVES there if they think the area is doing better than it has in recent years and they will say yes. [/B]

I have been reading this and other forums for some time and feel I must finally put in my thoughts. RocGuy you come across like a spoiled little kid that is homesick for a place you left long ago. It almost sounds as if you are in love with Rochester as if it were a replacement for a girlfriend.

I was born and raised in Rochester and have lived here all of my life, and I still do. I love this town but you know what? Donbuy is right. I am 44 years old and have seen this area decline dramatically over the last five years. My husband still works at Kodak and I know what is going on there. Neither you nor Northcoast should kid yourselves. MOST of the job cuts announced by Kodak have yet to take place. The data Donboy posted is current and do not reflect these future cuts. They will happen, ask anyone still employed at Kodak and they will tell you this.

It's cute the way you so desperately want to believe Maggie Brooks, and if she is telling the truth for a change, all it means is that without her "job gains" we would have lost almost 9,000 jobs in the past year instead of the 4,500 the State has confirmed.

So many of my friends have seen their sons and daughters move to other states after graduation that the situation here has become one of a massive brain drain. Rocguy... why did your family leave? Was it for a better opportunity? Those of you that still live here, look at your graduation class from high school and see how many remain. At my 25th year class reunion less than half of my graduating class for which we had an address still resided within the greater Rochester area. It's sad, but it is the truth.

Susie

December 7th, 2005, 03:17 AM

Constellation brands has been in aquisition mode over the past few years, and today Constellation Brands is the largest wine manufacturer/distributor in the world.

How many jobs has Constellation Brands added in the Rochester area because of these acquisitions?

ROCguy

December 7th, 2005, 05:25 AM

I have been reading this and other forums for some time and feel I must finally put in my thoughts. RocGuy you come across like a little kid that is homesick for a place you left long ago. It almost sounds as if you are in love with Rochester as if it were a replacement for a girlfriend.

I was born and raised in Rochester and have lived here all of my life, and I still do. I love this town but you know what? Donbuy is right. I am 44 years old and have seen this area decline dramatically over the last five years. My husband still works at Kodak and I know what is going on there. Neither you nor Northcoast should kid yourselves. MOST of the job cuts announed by Kodak have yet to take place. The data Donboy posted is current and do not reflect these future cuts. They will happen, ask anyone still employed at Kodak and they will tell you this.

It's cute the way you so desperately want to believe Maggie Brooks, and if she is telling the truth for a change all it means is that without her "job gains" we would have lost almost 9,000 jobs in the past year instead of the 4,500 the State has confirmed.

So many of my friends have seen there sons and daughters move to other states after graduation that the situation here has become one of a massive brain drain. Rocguy... why did your family leave? Was it for better opportunity? Those of you that still live here, look at your graduation class from high school and see how many remain. At my 25th year reunion less than half of my graduating class for which we had an address still resided within the greater Rochester area. It's sad, but it is the truth.

lol. and you come accross as a second account. Now now now, that's against the site rules. Not to metnion it's pathetic. I'm not, this is a good one, " in love with Rochester as if it were replacing a girlfrield" lol. I actually already have a girlfriend who plans on graduating and going to school up north as well. I just think the place get's a bad rap. And it being the area that I was born, where my entire family still lives, and have had many fond memeories spending Summers and the holiday's (either thanksgiving or Christmas/New years) and enjoyed the hospitality of the people, and the sense of the community that is hard to find in a lot of cities these days. So Donboy, ahem, I mean "susie", please lay off.

Susie

December 7th, 2005, 05:28 AM

lol. and you come accross as a second account. Now now now, that's against the site rules. Not to metnion it's pathetic.
What's a second account?

ROCguy

December 7th, 2005, 05:38 AM

What's a second account?

oooh "what's a second account", lol. ok.

Anyways... back to development news. Hot off the press. One word..... DUH!!!!!!

Ferry schedule cut back to 7 months; ship will sail elsewhere in winter

Jeffrey Blackwell
Staff writer

(December 6, 2005) — The proposed 2006 schedule for the high speed ferry announced today would eliminate winter sailings between Rochester and Toronto to open up opportunities to send the ship to a sunnier port in the off season.

Officials from Bay Ferries Great Lakes said there will be another season and it would begin March 31 and run through the end of October.

At the end of the season the ship could travel to another port, such as the Caribbean or the Bahamas, to bring in much-needed revenue, said Don Cormier, vice president, operations, Bay Ferries Great Lakes.

A specific winter location has not been determined.

The plan is similar to what Bay Ferries does with its other high speed ferry. The ship runs between Bar Harbor, Maine, and Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, from the end of May to the end of October, and then provides service at Port of Spain, on the islands of Trinidad and Tobago.

“We have always been successful in placing our other vessel in the off season and we believe that there is a realistic chance that we can place this vessel,” he said. “We have to follow a business plan that works.”

The details of the schedule have not been set. But Cormier said there would be 500 sailings in the 2006 season that would include increased services and packages for major events in both cities.

“We missed out on a lot of opportunities because we started late,” he said. “We will have a full season to take advantage of those marketing opportunities.”

The schedule is significantly shorter than what original plans called for. The ferry was originally pitched as a year-round floating bridge between the two cities. Earlier this year it was cut to a 10-month schedule.

The ferry is expected to cease operation for the winter at the end of December.

Cormier said the plan has the approval of the Rochester Ferry Co.

“The CAT realized close to 100,000 passengers in its first three months of service in 2005” said Ben Douglas, chairman of the Rochester Ferry Board, in a printed statement.

“The board is confident that the positive experiences and reliability of the product in 2005 has established a strong base for growth in 2006.”