not exactly a positive stement, lots of ifs and buts.

Yeh its still not fully conclusive, I wonder what the malaysians have instore for us? I hope its similar to what they have in KL or Langkawi.

I saw that tower up near Time ball, nothing fancy about it, just a big metal pole with neons on it

^^ i really like the timeball tower.

The malaysians are the ones that have been holding things up for years. thank god they are on the way out.

from nearly deserted to full...good to see the turnaround. ooh and the moyo's is looking GREAT. nearly ready to open

Durban’s uShaka shopping mall posts 95% occupancy

(Retail) Durban’s uShaka Village Walk, the retail component of the marine park, recently signed lease extensions worth R8,3m, pushing the occupancy of the shopping mall to 95%. The value of new leases over the next ten years amounts to R51,5 million.

This is the first time the leases have been renewed since the marine park opened three years ago, according to uShaka Marine World’s (uShaka) chief operating officer, Bongani Xaba.

“Many of the tenants were due to renew at the end of the first three year lease period,” says Xaba, but 39 of the 45 lessees have re-signed for an additional three to five years. In fact, a number of the tenants such as Clothesline and Butik Asia have not only extended their leases but their premises as well. Piranha Surf doubled its space to include the Jeep, Billabong, Quicksilver and Roxy brands. Others, such as Wimpy have indicated the intent to expand within the next six months.”

New developments for the year ahead include the new beach activity centre offering deep-sea diving, surfing, kayaking, bicycle tours and team building options, which opened this month.

when I was there last year it was a bit slow and I thought the shops were overpriced for the touristy things. Good concept though but need regular footfall to work

^^ the main problem is that locals have no need to shop there for the stores do not meet daily needs.

Tourists dont stay in the area long enough, for at present there is no accomodation.

So its a lose lose situation. Until the hotels are up and more people are living in the area, the village walk will struggle. Yes it does bloody well on weekends, but what about the other 5 days in the week? give it 2 years. when the mall is up and running next door it wil stimulate more traffic for it.

On weekends the atmosphere at Ushaka Village Mall is the best of any mall in Durbs, bar none. Live bands, costumed parades, etc. It will only get better when there's a bigger resident population and hotels are close by.

^^& I think Ushaka's got the best KFC in durbs too!

KFC is KFC, what changes?

Actually some KFC's are definately better than others. Depends on management though... And I can imagine that the KFC at Ushaka just has a better view?

KFC is KFC, what changes?

What kind of a question is this? I really do not think that it needs an answer. Mike you contributing a lot to the forum but lately your comments are just way out of the purpose of the forum. We all know that KFCs serve the same food but the setup can be different. Hold your horses bro.:bash:

Yoh, its was a joke, but yes the view is an added bonus to the KFC :D

What kind of a question is this? I really do not think that it needs an answer. Mike you contributing a lot to the forum but lately your comments are just way out of the purpose of the forum. We all know that KFCs serve the same food but the setup can be different. Hold your horses bro.:bash:

dude you the one taking it serious. i was merely stating that kfc is kfc is kfc is kfc. the food is always the same. i dont know where u sucking everything else from, there was NOTHING wrong with MY comment. whoa up betty

I think we are missing the point of the point discussion?

Ok guys, its been awhile since i have done a good ole picture update from the Point, so here are some shots taken yesterday. Work is coming on nicely!!

The following pictures show the new Timeball Tower which is up. There is a ball that falls every ten minutes. when it reaches the bottom, it shoots up to the top signalling the start of a new hour. there are other things that show which hour it is, but i think you get the point. Nice looking modern structure which harks back to the original timeball tower that was situated in close vicinity that fulfilled the same function back in the early days of Durban. Whats great to see is that the new development is bringing back all the lost history from the area and giving it a modern interpretation.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6079.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6080.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6107.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6108.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6081.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6082.jpg


These pictures clearly show the Quays (right) and the nearly completed Quayside (left). The canal in front of them is still to be further widened in the next phase of point development.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6084.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6085.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6088.jpg

back view of quayside

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6102.jpg

another back view, with Dolphin whispers on the left

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6103.jpg


This is the Rope Shed, which i recently mentioned in the East Point thread. Its an historic building that has been renovated and is now occupied by 1 firm on the upper level and will shortly be home to retail on the ground floor.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6091.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6092.jpg


Point Bay is also (finally) coming along nicely, it is opposite Point Bastille (the old prison now completely renovated)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6093.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6099.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6104.jpg


This is an image from the top of the canal system looking back towards the city. From left to right the developments are: Point Bay, The Sails, The Spinnaker, Point Bastille. There are many more developments lining the canal but you cant see them from this spot probably due to the beautiful palms.


http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6097.jpg


Looking back at the Timeball Square from Ushaka. Buildings from left to right are: Quayside, The Quays, Point Bay, Millenium Tower (on the bluff in the distance), The Sails, S on Timeball Hotel, Timeball Tower, Horizon Views, Marine Point and Dockpoint.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6111.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6112.jpg


Finally here are some more shots of the Spinnaker, which is rapidly reaching topping out.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6110.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6083.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6090.jpg

Mike, those pics are stunning, the point is really on fire. Thanks for posting them.

How does the Timeball Tower look at night? Does the ball light up as its goes up and dwon?

they say it is lit up at night, but i have not been down at night yet to see it myself. romansa lives right there, so he should be able to tell us more about the tower than i can. but i know it is lit up in changing colours. and it looks great during the day!

Great pictures. Some of those canal shots look wonderful.

Thanks for posting, Mike. The pics are great and I see differences from just 3 weeks ago when I was last there. These pics make me feel like I'm at home, which I am missing dearly.

Pule, the tower does, indeed, light up at night. Blue and red lights. At night, the blue lighting makes for a stunning match with the blue lighting at the top of Quayside and the blue lighting of the Millenium Tower.

Oh, and thanks for posting the pic on the Rope Shed. I didn't even know this existed, and I live there!!! Looks very cool.

Thanx for the pics Mike, what would we do with out you!

best pic ever for Durban is that shot looking up the canal with the palms on either side, simpley amazing

Thanks for the stupendous update Mike! It's looking really good.

Love this pic (I think it's the one Giles was also talking about)

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6097.jpg

its my new screen saver, Mike cheque is in the mail

hehe thanx guys!! Yeah i love that pic too. sorry about the bad light, will have to go down to that spot again sometime in mid morning when the sun isnt shining into the lense.

All in all i think you can all get a sense of the fantastic new city that is developing here at the point. with the addition of a sizable new commercial heart as well (with the new 33F commercial tower and the space in the buildings uc AAA grade office space in the point is already totalling 47000m2). This area is now showing the sceptics just how amazing some of us have always known it will be...ooh i tingle at how amazing it will be in 2010.

You're a star Mike. That was also my favourite pic too. Sums up Durbs perfectly: stunning sub-tropical city with canals and a new emerging skyscraper zone.

And what a pity about San Raphael! Along with the Pearls development, that was my favourite new building in the whole country. Now that stunning new highrise in JHB (can't remember itsname off-hand now) will take that title.

Regarding the Timeball, is the ball in question that tiny metal sphere? Or will a larger ball be placed on it in the future?

I think the ball is that tiny one.

Pitty the Point has small balls

And what a pity about San Raphael! Along with the Pearls development, that was my favourite new building in the whole country. Now that stunning new highrise in JHB (can't remember itsname off-hand now) will take that title.

What stunning new JHB tower. Hasent been one there for donkeys:bash:

Tried looking for it but can't find it in the Projects section. It's a stunning (proposed?) blue highrise tower with cool lighting. Can anyone help with this? I'm not sure if its confirmed yet but it's very cool.

tell us more and how come we never seen or heard about it befre?>

seers maude?

ya i think thats the one he's talking about. the 1 pic of it does make it look good, but night shots generally always do. we need a day shot to see and analyse it. from other angles too!! and its not blue glass jerome, those were the lights off it.

And anyway...still gotta see the designs for the 2 new point highrises. The one i found out about the other day (33F) which is almost entirely glass i'm told. And the one adjacent to the spinnaker. The 33F is entirely commercial, the other i found about today and it is half commercial, half hotel.

This is great consolation news, Mike. I hope they both go ahead. San Raphael was my favourite, by far. Please keep us posted about this.

I think the office block will be great for the area. Will make the people mover more viable too, and also increase foot traffic in the new malls planned for the area.

oNtAMk9oMkA

Must admit this is looking set to be one of the most exciting dev's in SA atm. The moment we start seeing (another) a 30 floor scraper starting to rise will it then become the most exciting :p.. Any news on the Durban port entrance widening??

the youtube clip says its 18 months starting in 2005 so it should be finnished?
Any pics of it?

Must admit this is looking set to be one of the most exciting dev's in SA atm. The moment we start seeing (another) a 30 floor scraper starting to rise will it then become the most exciting :p.. Any news on the Durban port entrance widening??

The port entrance has been closed to the public for a few months. The construction equipment is moving in to excavate the site. i dont know all the timeframes but completion is supposed to be end of 2009/early 2010

Hi guys, Im am not new to this forum but have never posted before, from Johannesburg.

Concerning this project, would it be possible for someone to post information regarding the individual projects happening here.
Like a list (and links to such projects if possible) for EG:

Completed buildings,
Under Construction Buildings,
projects that have been rejected or pulled out and
future developments

in this area. This project is one of my fav and the official website is never updated:(:(

Thanks alot guys and look forward to many many discussions.
All the best.

Hi there Luf and welcome!

All the individual projects are to be found on the Developments List (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=384655) Thread. In future if you are looking for a project this is the first place to go. It is found at the top of the page in the Projects section.

Each of the developments taking place at the Point are listed there with links to their individual threads, where further information on the status of the projects can be found.

Here is the List of projects in the Point:

Complete

-The Quays
-Marine Point
-Quayside
-Point Bastille
-Harbourview Heights
-Dockpoint

UC

-The Spinnaker
-East Point
-The Sails
-Point Bay Apts.
-QuayWest Hotel
-Dolphin Whispers
-Heritage Square
-The Towers @ Quayside

Approved and awaiting construction

-Shaka's Gate
-The Palms
-One Point One Seven
-The Mast
-The Stevedores
-S on Timeball

Canned Projects

-San Raphael tower


Future Projects

-Express by Holiday Inn
-Point Mall
-Findle Tower
-Westpoint

Thank you very much Dysan1!

I can not believe i never saw that project section:P
San Raphael Tower canned:(? I just thought it was put on hold for now.

^^ sadly it has been canned and all of us on the forum are devastated.

However, i have it on good authority that there are 2 additional towers for the point that are due to be announced shortly. Both over 30F. and the San Raphael site will now be available for another high rise tower, as it is one of only 6 sites at the point zoned for high rise buildings.

UC

--Heritage Square


Hold up, hold up, Heritage Square is under construction? They never tell me anything? We never even complete the designs because we were told the designs were being revised.

Anyway, Mike, this mall they going to build, any idea on the location? will it be near Ushaka or on the phase 2 of the Point?

Heritage Square

The hoardings and netting are up, demolition of the internal area's and "bad architecture" buildings has been completed. If you drive past you can see that the street facades are being held up by poles, and there is nothing behind them except rubble.

Point Mall

The mall straddles the canals right next to ushaka and opposite dockpoint. as i have said before, its a 45 000m2 mall, hotel, 10 000m2 offices and 120 apartments, all fully integrated into each other in one development, with the canal running thru the centre of the shopping mall, with glass ceilings over the canal section. Impressive? i think so!

oh okay, thats just the demolition team in, I thought they started building.

regarding the mall, its sounds blady impressive, thinking of opening up a shop or 2 in there.

Hi there Luf and welcome!

All the individual projects are to be found on the Developments List (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=384655) Thread. In future if you are looking for a project this is the first place to go. It is found at the top of the page in the Projects section.

Each of the developments taking place at the Point are listed there with links to their individual threads, where further information on the status of the projects can be found.

Here is the List of projects in the Point:

Complete

-The Quays
-Marine Point
-Quayside
-Point Bastille
-Harbourview Heights
-Dockpoint

UC

-The Spinnaker
-East Point
-The Sails
-Point Bay Apts.
-QuayWest Hotel
-Dolphin Whispers
-Heritage Square
-The Towers @ Quayside

Approved and awaiting construction

-Shaka's Gate
-The Palms
-One Point One Seven
-The Mast
-The Stevedores
-S on Timeball

Canned Projects

-San Raphael tower


Future Projects

-Express by Holiday Inn
-Point Mall
-Findle Tower
-Westpoint

What about Skyhomes????

hehe you are in love with SKYhomes. I should put it under canned, but for some reason the guy who was developing it still has some hope that he will built it.

The Superblock

Information has been a little thin on the Mall development, but i hope the following will clear alot more up. It seems that the mall, apartments, offices and hotels will be developed by ONE developer as a Super project offering over 110 000m2 of lettable/saleable space. Here are some bits of information on the development and an image of the entire point, to give everyone a clearer idea of where everything is to be built.

Superblock

1) 110 00m2 of Mixed use bulk which will be released as a single Superblock, that will consist of a 45 000m2 shopping centre and 35 000m2 of hotels. The remainder will be used for offices and residential apartments.

7 additional sites facing the marina and deep water canals are up for release as well, with alot of interest shown by previous point developers as well as international ones.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/pointplan2007.jpg

Has there been any news on the cruise line terminal?

The cruise line terminal is still under negociation between the DPDC and Transnet. Transnet own the land where the DPDC want to build the terminal. If the DPDC get the go ahead to build the terminal, transnet want to know what they get in return for they will be losing valuable berthing and container handling area's. Its a delicate situation. Transnet wants the terminal out of its existing spot for that is a prime place for further container handling too. i guess its a balancing act of priorities at this point.

Some details on Moyo, the new restaurant opening at Ushaka. When I visited last week, refurbishment was at an advanced stage. Even the guys who make sand castles for a living had created one saying "Moyo opening soon". I wonder if they will open in time for the Beach Africa fesitval? In any event, when it's complete it will have one of the best locations in the country. Their space overlooking the beach, pier, and harbour mouth is special. In time they may even have views of the new small craft harbour, if it gets approved.

--------------------------

Moyo: The African restaurant with a recipe for success
Written by moyo

Thursday, 28 June 2007

[Pressportal.co.za] The tourist season is upon us and local restaurants are gearing up to provide international quality fare to the expected discerning hordes. However, there are few restaurants that offer a truly African experience, one that entertains, informs and sates all at the same time, in perfect harmony. moyo is as much about entertainment, ambience and atmosphere as it is about culinary delights. Guests are cocooned in the rarefied atmosphere of a truly African experience, with dancing, singing, face-painting and typically African food with a modern twist. For tourists and locals alike, moyo is almost a holiday within a holiday, where the guest feels more like a visitor to an old friend’s home, than just a restaurant patron. At moyo Stellenbosch on the Spier Wine Estate, it is obvious from your first step into this African village type restaurant, whether you sit perched high on a tree house veranda or sit below the Bedouin style gazebo’s, that this is no mere restaurant. Open to the elements, yet carefully and skilfully protected from the worst of them, your eyes wander in amazement at the surrounds and in anticipation of what is to come. And disappointed you are not, attentive yet unobtrusive service is the order of the day, eating and being entertained at a pace that you dictate.

The inspired menu circumnavigates the continent with large North African influences combined with Central and Southern African nuances. So whether it is tabouleh, potjies or tagines, ostrich, springbok or gemsbok, you are really spoilt for choice. And if you have a preference for fish and seafood, there is a huge array for selection.

Whilst each of the 4 restaurants has their own very individual feel, a familiar ambience runs through them all, and with the newly established retail outlets attached to the restaurants, taking a little bit of moyo home with you becomes possible. All the products available to purchase are sourced from the African continent. Chairs, tables, cushions and many other pieces used to furnish the restaurants are manufactured in-house and are also available to purchase.

The fifth moyo is due to be opened in 2007 and building has commenced at the Durban location. Plans are afoot for a further moyo towards the end of 2007.

Contact Details
Dries van der Merwe
moyo
073 180 3445
deis@moyo.co.zaThis e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it
www.moyo.co.za

http://www.pressportal.co.za/content/view/548/53/

spoke to waitors that were in training a few weeks back and they said they open on 1 July, so sunday....

Cool, should have a long waiting list, that end of Ushaka was rather dead because of the shitty places they had there, lets hope this place gives that area good vibes.

Here are another collection of update photos taken on saturday

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6149.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6150.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6148.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6147.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6153.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6156.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6157.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6159.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6160.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6162.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6164.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6166.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6170.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6173.jpg


The new Moyo at the point - doing final touch ups

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6175.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6176.jpg

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c128/dysan1/IMGP6177.jpg

Thanx for the pics Dys

Mike are there any people around as it looks so sterlie and clean with not much life. Obviuosly once more opens it will but it looks like 10am tuesday down there

BTW looks great and very neat

the pics were taken at about 3pm on saturday. Ushaka and the beaches were packed. There were quite a few couples walking about and sitting on the lawns and loadsa cars driving by to look. However as there are no retail facilities open yet there is little to get most people to talk the walk around the canals. i reckon by year end when stores and cafes are open it will start getting a buzz.

But it is terribly well manicured and looked after and the the street furniture is top draw.

Reach for the Skies

THE development of Durban has been a hot topic lately with a number of large scale projects being given the go-ahead.Group Five confirmed on June 6 that it and its consortium partners had signed the R6,8bn contract with Airports Company SA for building King Shaka International Airport.And Fin24.co.za said on Monday Group Five had won a R1,8bn contract from Transnet to widen Durban’s harbour by 100m and increase its depth by 6m.

The 45ha Durban Point Waterfront has expanded dramatically since its inception in 2003, with its infrastructure and luxury developments taking shape. To date, 19 developments have launched, with seven under construction and six completed. The rapidly changing waterfront has resulted in more risk-averse investors and owner-occupiers turning their focus to the waterfront’s numerous investment opportunities and the sought-after lifestyle it offers.

Improvements include a R300m budget by the eThekwini Municipality for infrastructural investments, intended for the provision of electricity, road extensions, landscaping and beachfront rehabilitation. The municipality’s road-improvement programme has ensured that both Point Road and Shepstone Road have become one way, four lane roads. Point Road will become the main one-way route out of the new Point Waterfront. While some work has been completed, both roads are subject to an aesthetic and capacity upgrade.

For the past several years the eThekwini Municipality has been working on its iTrump, or Inner Thekwini Regeneration and Urban Management Programme, which incorporates a Better Buildings Programme. As a result, several problem buildings in the Point area have been targeted and either earmarked for improvement or closure.

Investor confidence in and around the harbour area is growing as a result. Nevertheless, astute investors will always require solid motives to invest, which is why the year-to-date figures released at the end of last year are worth taking note of. These figures saw the Durban Point Waterfront as the highest-performing area in KwaZulu-Natal, with year-on-year growth pegged at 45%. Although sceptics may argue that these figures are distorted because they come off a low base, KwaZulu-Natal off-plan specialist Apartmentbox says one merely has to look at Cape Town’s V&A Waterfront as an example of similar potential.


“Over the past 15 years, Cape Town has managed to create a thriving tourist economy out of its V&A Waterfront. Property prices at the V&A have gone through the roof, to a point where South Africans are seeing value in paying international prices for plush quayside apartments. Apartment prices are now up to R60000/m²,” Apartmentbox says. Pricing for the Durban Point Waterfront is about R17000/m², roughly a third of the V&A and half that of prime Umhlanga Rocks. This pricing allows a window of opportunity for investors as prices are expected to climb sharply in the first quarter of next year.

Another prospect that will have a significant impact on prices if approved is the new luxury yacht marina, which is expected by October this year.

Apartmentbox is marketing the 29-storey Spinnaker at the Durban Point Waterfront — the only high-rise development in the area (um no). The R250m luxury apartment block will be completed this year and is a located at the foot of uShaka Marine World. The development is welcomed by the city in its vision to have a landmark building at the entrance to the Waterfront “to reflect the style and grand characteristics that the Point Waterfront intends to deliver”.

The Spinnaker consists of 91 luxury apartments, eight office suites and four high-street retail outlets. Due to its towering stature, the building offers dramatic views of uShaka, the ocean, city and bay. It is the first building in KwaZulu-Natal to offer dual-terraces where views of the ocean and bay can be enjoyed off separate terraces.

Waterfront developments are reaching levels as high as R22000/m², while the Spinnaker is offering apartments with sea and harbour terraces at an average R14000/m². Eighteen apartments are still for sale.



PRICE: Apartments from R995000
CONTACT:Apartmentbox, Hugo La Reservee 073 213 6795 or 031 312 0540

Can Durban’s waterfront surpass La Caudan Waterfront? Yes


(Comment) A few weeks ago I revisited Port Louis the capital of Mauritius after a 18 year absence. The change was unbelievable. Probably the most outstanding change was the development of the city’s Le Caudan Waterfront, overlooking the country’s busy harbour, and the impact it has had on the city.

From what I can make out it was opened in 2004 and has gone from strength to strength.

The reason for it becoming one of the most popular leisure and shopping places in the Mauritian capital, for both locals and tourists, is the wide variety of things to do and see. There is a themed casino, handcrafts, cinema, as many as 140 shops, restaurants, pubs, fast food outlets, hotels and a marina for pleasure craft and yachts. It is certainly listed in virtually all tourism information about the country.

While I do not know how long it took to develop Le Caudan I could not help but compare it to the development of Durban’s Point Waterfront, which was launched in 2003.

Durban’s waterfront, a mix of residential, commercial and retail is said to be the most exciting developments for the city. Unlike Le Caudan and Cape Town’s Victoria & Albert Waterfront the Durban Point Waterfront started with the residential element rather than the commercial probably because it was launched in the midst of a residential property boom.

Phase one of the Durban Point Waterfront development sites are sold out and phase two will be released at the end of the year.

There are 14 mixed-use sites in various stages of construction and planning and a breakdown of usages so far shows 77% is residential 6% hotels, 13% retail and 4% offices and showrooms. Certainly it seems that the various aspects have sold reasonably well.

The proposed 40 000 square metre shopping centre is still being negotiated and will probably be finalised towards the end of the year, after which it will only be a matter of time before construction starts. So until then this leaves little or no commercial or retail other than uShaka Marine World.

Further it is expected that it will be another 18 to 24 months before the “active edges” restaurants, pubs and shops that will help bring the development to life will start to come on stream.

The Point Waterfront is exceptional from an architectural and design layout point of view; the proposed marina is superb and will be a huge attraction for people from around the world, if it goes ahead.

I believe that if our waterfront is to be successful and exciting and a catalyst for the regeneration of the city precinct around it, it is urgent that the shopping element and the active edge be developed as soon as possible.

While I am not privy to the issues around the development I think ideally the shopping mall should have been developed concurrently with the residential component.

If the Point Waterfront turns out to be anything like Le Caundan we are in for a very exciting precinct with enormous potential.

Keith Wakefield
CEO of Wakefields Estate Agents

Submitted: 13 Jul 2007

When is Moyo gonna start operating?

Thanx Mike. I just hope that I will have time to go there this coming weekend.

Todays Mercury got something about Vetches Pier, didnt get a chance to read it, but it didnt look good.

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1692/page7306430dh8.jpg

Vetch's Pier plan faces rethink
July 19, 2007 Edition 1

Tony Carnie

THE controversial plan that will elbow out Durban's water-sports community from Vetch's Pier for a new yacht marina and commercial waterfront development has run into an obstacle.

The provincial Department of Environmental Affairs is unhappy with aspects of the marina plan and the mandatory environmental impact report lodged by the deve-lopers.

It has now insisted that a public meeting be held soon to discuss and clarify a new "compromise" plan negotiated between the eThekwini Metro and the Durban Point Deve-lopment Company.

The latest developments follow a series of objections from the city, watersport enthusiasts and members of the public over the perceived privatisation of a popular public beach.

Some of the central concerns raised by the provincial environment department include the likelihood of overcrowding at the beach, the legality of alienating a public amenity and the need to explain who will win and who will lose if the plan goes ahead.

According to a letter sent to the Durban Point Development Company spokesman Neels Brink, the provincial environment department's internal review task team had identified several "short- comings" and issues which required clarity.

Brink was not prepared to discuss what modifications were being considered when The Mercury spoke to him yesterday.

"When we go public everyone will see what is there . . . You are trying to pre-empt the legal public process," he responded when asked whether Durban Point Development Company had modified its original layout plans.

However, City Manager Michael Sutcliffe has confirmed that the city had asked the company to change certain aspects of the proposal and it is believed the deve-lopers were told to scale down the size of the yacht marina and to create a larger public beach area.

Sutcliffe said the eThekwini Metro Council supported the concept of a new small craft harbour, but the city's professional planning team did not agree with some of the developers' proposals.

From the perspective of urban design, the city wanted to see a "unique urban environment - not just a huge blob of concrete or a glorified shopping centre".

Sutcliffe believed the city had come up with a proposal, which was technically feasible.

Asked whether the proposed modifications would address the concerns of watersport clubs, which were worried about being "cooped up" in small premises, Sutcliffe said: "I think we are getting there . . . we were able to workshop a number of issues, but it's not going to satisfy everyone."

He suggested it was unrealistic to expect either a status quo situation or a maximisation of development. However, it appears that land ownership of the site may represent a significant legal stumbling block for the developers.

The Department of Environment Affairs and the Durban Paddleski Club have questioned who owns the land and the adjoining sea, and whether it is legal for the company to alienate it.

Sutcliffe said the ownership issue was still being discussed with Transnet Chief Executive Maria Ramos and Chief Operating Officer Louis van Niekerk. "It's not something we have resolved yet, but I'm hoping we will get a breakthrough."

In his letter to Brink and the environmental impact assessment project team, Malcolm Moses of the provincial Environment department said there was no proof or clarity on who owned the Vetch's site and whether the company was entitled to alienate this land if it was sold or leased.

Comment

Moses said his department had been informed that the final layout plans had undergone "several changes" and the public should be given an opportunity to comment on the changes.

He noted that the length of the beach at Vetch's would be reduced by nearly 100m when the harbour mouth was widened and uShaka beach had been created specifically to mitigate the loss of beach.

"Will the small craft harbour confine current users of Vetch's to a smaller area and will this result in the overcrowding of uShaka beach? Please provide a detailed response," wrote Moses.

The department also wanted clarity on whether adequate parking facilities would be provided and what would be done to address the fate of the water sports clubs and seine-netters.

Moses also raised concerns about a social impact assessment study conducted by the University of KwaZulu-Natal Centre for Environmental Management, noting that more information was needed to assess the distribution of benefits and costs of the affected people.

The department also expected clearer responses to the concerns raised by interested and affected groups, rather than just the deve-lopers' preferred options.

http://www.themercury.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3941024

great so a bunch of canoests with a run down clubhouse and no intention of ever doing anything abouit it, hold up billions of rands in world class internationially accaptable development. Next they will cry when the 4 big beachfront hotel sites get sold as "there will be too many poepl on OUR beach, boo hoo", Fuck I hate NIMBYS

talk about prioritys in the wrong place when one considers they always compalined about the state of the old point area(massive open areas, tank fars, crime, vagrents etc) and then they complain when development has to happen to fund the upgrade

They a bunch of wihner's, someone needs to shut them up. You know, when it comes to more serious problems, these are the folks that will sit back & act like its not their problem, as you said, they were so many complaints from these same bunch of people that the Point was'nt a safe area, now as Durban Council & Moorelands do up the point, they start moaning & claim land that doesnt even belong to them in the first place???

i think you guys are slightly missing the point that the department made. they have no problem with the development per se, but more the problems that still have to be resolved, hence why it cannot pass anything yet. There is no clarity on land ownership and if one is allowed to build over the ocean, and if so who is entitled to develop there. secondly the development cant be seen to be forcing the water community into extiction for even though is disagree with many of their views you cant disagree that that beach area is the only one in the whole durban area suited for many sports and that needs to be retained. What needs to be achieved is a good balance that holds onto the attraction and recreation associated with the sports community while realising billions in property investment.

At the moment i think both sides refuse to compromise and hence why the department is not willing to push anything through.

Changing the topic now...

Moyo at ushaka is a 3 story development and from the looks of things not only african inspired. but indian as well to suit the local influences.

I read yesterday in East Coast Living Magazine that once the current Moyo has settled down worl will begin on the second phase of the development, which will entail moyo developing a 3 story glass encased bar on the end of ushaka pier! now that sounds bloody fantastic.

ive seen all this talk about Moyo but sort of resturant is it? Ill be back in a few weeks and have an evening spare and want to try something new

Mike back to the contentious issue of the day, is it not proposed to have 4 beachfront resort sites from Ushaka up to the SCH as discussed previously?

I think Shearaton was banded about as some stage

I think thats still going to happen

Mike back to the contentious issue of the day, is it not proposed to have 4 beachfront resort sites from Ushaka up to the SCH as discussed previously?

I think Shearaton was banded about as some stage

To my knowledge they are completely unaffected by these squables. But will now be 3 larger hotels instead connected to the superblock mall site.

Regards moyo, its african inspired food.

To my knowledge they are completely unaffected by these squables. But will now be 3 larger hotels instead connected to the superblock mall site.

Regards moyo, its african inspired food.

Mike any news on how these hotel site will be sold/tendered? and what are the zoning resitictions on them? I was led to belive they would be big beachfront resort properties 300-400keys and up to 20F.

Is this correct?

It would then look a bit like umhulunga with 3 or 4 cabanna beach type projects

Mike any news on how these hotel site will be sold/tendered? and what are the zoning resitictions on them? I was led to belive they would be big beachfront resort properties 300-400keys and up to 20F.

Is this correct?

It would then look a bit like umhulunga with 3 or 4 cabanna beach type projects

They wont be cabannas style due to the shadow restrictions. they will either be thinner and taller or shorter and squat. prob in the region of 250-300 each

Hi guys, a but off the topic, but i was just wonder if anyone knows of a well updated (picturewise aswell) website with regards to the point. The official site is really outdated, nearly a year now (i wonder why?). Please let me know. Thank you
Luf

Hi guys, a but off the topic, but i was just wonder if anyone knows of a well updated (picturewise aswell) website with regards to the point. The official site is really outdated, nearly a year now (i wonder why?). Please let me know. Thank you
Luf

For updates on individual developments either visit their threads on here, or visit their websites.

The official website only deals with the masterplan and points out the developments. No it is not very good, thats why we have the best info on the web right here. :)

Guys i have moved all the postings regarding the SCH to its own thread. In future please post all matters related to SCH in that thread and leave this thread for updates on current developments, picture tours, new development announcements or queries about the area.

Thanx

Dysan1

took an evening gondola ride along the canals the other nite and it was a great experience. its well lit and the views of the millenium tower and construction works are great, so too are all the palm trees. will sort my pics out and then post them later in the week

I'd love to see what that clock thingie looks like at night.

^^ thats with my pics. its lit up with white, blue and red lights in circular bands

Hey Guys. Any new news regarding this development? Any shops plan on moving in anytime soon? Was in Durban about a month ago and went to the area. Nice new little coffee bar there (beside the point i think its called), very very nice. It still seems like no body lives there though, at night its dead:). Any one know how the occupancy is coming along? (perminant and holiday homes)

All the best

I haven't been to that coffee shop yet but plan to check it out soon.

Just as an update on the area, a special iconic structure is fast going up at the entrance to the Point Waterfront, just after the cobbled paving of Mahatma Gandhi / Point Road begins (just before the Ushaka turnoff). A tower of sorts, similar to the Timeball tower, is already up. Not yet finished but already looks very nice.

Also, some of the apartment buildings are coming along at breakneck speed. I can see some of them being ready before year end.

to be fair you cant open shops and cafes in a construction site, u need a mass of completed buildings first. i think from december we will see more places opening.

also seen that new entrance feature..looks good. wonder what it fully entails

to be fair you cant open shops and cafes in a construction site, u need a mass of completed buildings first. i think from december we will see more places opening.

also seen that new entrance feature..looks good. wonder what it fully entails

Hi I´m new in this forum.
Is it possible to get some new pic´s of the point area from someone of you ???? :)

Are there any news about the SCH ????

Hi & firstly welcome Urmel, news pics are a tad bit hard to get now a days, most of us hardly have time to go around taken snaps, but when we do find the chance we will put them up, unless Jerome can take a quick few snaps today & post it *hint hint* ;)

Regards SCH, it now has its own thread, you can find out all the latest news on the development there.

Hi Urmel, Welcome to the forums..

Ill am trying to get to Durban at the end of this month and i will for sure be going to check out the point. So updated pictures will be coming soon.

Welcome Urmel, these Durban boys are lazy, we the Joburgers end up going there and taking pics for them. First it was me and now Luf is also going there to do it for the Drubanites. Don't worry they good with excuses.

Okay, so I am pathetic with pics (still haven't posted a single one yet despite taking out dozens. Sigh!).

However, I can report some Point-related developments:

1. "Besides the Point", the new cafe in Albert Terrace that has received good reviews, is moving. In about 3 weeks it will begin operating from Marine Point. Am quite excited about this as this is a much more prominent location (diagonally opposite Timeball Tower).

2. The major demolition work for the Stevedores is now complete. I assume the actual building and interior renovations will commence soon.

3. Spinnaker is coming along very nicely. The top three balconies under the spindle have been painted yellow. Not sure if this entire line will be painted such but several colour options have been painted on the lower levels and they seem to have gone with yellow.

4. The old building that is alongside the power station above the North end of the canal (the Ushaka end) has been totally demolished. This parcel of land is where the mall is set to start from. I can only assume that we are a step closer to the mall groundwork commencing.

5. Work on Dolphin Whispers has recommenced. It was on-off but now I see workers on site every day.

6. The Sails is fast reaching completion.

7. Another development at the South end of the canal (can't recall its name now) is also fast nearing completion. Workers have started the interiors on some apartments.

8. The iconic tower feature at the entrance to waterfront is almost complete. Final bricklaying is being done. Seems as if cobbled rockwork is the theme (same as the walls around the canals and walls of the Sails).

Thanks for the upday RomanSA.. How is the stevedores looking? You think its going to be a good one? I cant find any new pictures of what the final product is going to look like.

Im abit sad that "Beside the Point" is moving, really really like what they did with the place but at the same time its going to make marine point look great.

Thanks for the up date. and Pule - LOL at your comment mate:)

Welcome Urmel, these Durban boys are lazy, we the Joburgers end up going there and taking pics for them. First it was me and now Luf is also going there to do it for the Drubanites. Don't worry they good with excuses.

you do? think i have taken enough over time, and do still update. in general the whole SA forum is bad with update images (jakes doing well tho) and we dont see anything from CT

Jerome thanx for the update buddy! didnt think the whole "beside the point" was moving, thought that some of it was staying in its current location.... thats what the paper said.

good to see the mall is closer to reality!

Yellow on the spinakker????

Jerome thanx for the update buddy! didnt think the whole "beside the point" was moving, thought that some of it was staying in its current location.... thats what the paper said.

Dysan1, what do you mean? That there will be like 2 "beside the points"?
just split up?

I'm not sure if the current restaurant will remain where it is or move completely. I do know that "Besides the Point" is opening at Marine Point. They have already started the internal refurbishment and already have their logo on the window. I was told they are opening in 2 weeks but I am adding an extra week just in case they are delayed. It will be cool sitting on the Marine Point patio and watching people swim through the peep holes in the pool above the restaurant.

Yellow on the spinakker????

Sad but true. I can't imagine this being the undercoat. If this is the colour, I hope it looks nice when it's finished. Sigh!

Yellow mellow, the other project Jerome mentioned that must be near completition is Point Bay, they have started with the interiors & are pouring the basement slab today... yes the last slab they pouring is the one right at the bottom.

Regards the Stevedores, still waiting for my renders from R & V architects, but we are still busy with designs for the place, because of the canal that flows into the place, most of the proposed retail on ground floor including the piazza that was going in the middle is scraped. with all of the retail now being on the far right of the project where the current loan standing building is. The project will still have a great feel to it with the whole canal thing being a major draw card. Now more apartments have been added as well because the offices have been scraped with a few being above the retail segment.

When I get more, I will report on it.

As I said before regarding 1.17, the project has been canned & not sure whether any new developer has taken over it, but Im sure they will allocate a new technical team to the project, & if we are apart of it you can expect updates from me ;)

Thanks for the updates guys. Any news on The Palms? Has this one been scrapped or just taking a while to get off the ground?

Not sure about the Plams but there are "For sale" signs on 2 plots currently:

1. The first is "1.17", which we knew folded a few months back.

2. The second is directly next to the Sails on the site that was earmarked for the Sharia-compliant hotel. I assume it isn't going ahead now. However, that is a *prime* plot (right on Timeball Square) below Timeball Tower so can't see that being vacant for too long. Hope whatever replaces it rises quickly as given its location I don't want to see an empty plot for too long.

DB not good to hear that they cutting back on the commercial as it will keep the area much more alive than empty holiday flats

Not sure about the Plams but there are "For sale" signs on 2 plots currently:

1. The first is "1.17", which we knew folded a few months back.

2. The second is directly next to the Sails on the site that was earmarked for the Sharia-compliant hotel. I assume it isn't going ahead now. However, that is a *prime* plot (right on Timeball Square) below Timeball Tower so can't see that being vacant for too long. Hope whatever replaces it rises quickly as given its location I don't want to see an empty plot for too long.

The S hotel on Timeball is def still going ahead! its not starting work until the sails is complete and until life starts coming to the area to warrant the hotel

Also not to happy about the fact that they cutting down on commercial but hopefully if Point tower and all the others start construction and finally get occupied that commercial will help the area out alot.

Romansa what is the iconic structure at the entrance? What does it look like and does it serve any practical purpose? I've barely been in Durban for the last month or two and am starting to feel I'm missing out on stuff!

It's a steel tower, about 15m tall, I would estimate, on a raised-slanted triangular stone-walled base. Similar in style to the Timeball Tower.

That entrence is going to look great, So can we get an update on Built, U/C, Canned, under negotiation (like Shakas gate) and future?

Yeh I know, the retail aspect of the Stevedores was amazing, but one must look at it in the eyes of the buyer, if you own a boat, you not going to want to park it infront of someones coffee shop, by the apartments being on the same level as the boats it will give the owner easy access to his boat.

One thing I love about Durban is THE POINT, its very different from the "othe durban"...

These people should start with Shaka Gate, I remeber when I was at Ushaka last time some foregners, I think they US, liked Shaka Gate.

yeah pule, as everyone can see i really LOVE the point development, it is just such a great idea and it looks amazing. Why is Shakas Gate taking so long? Last time i was in Durbs i also heard alot of people talking about it. It will bring much needed livelyhood to the area. Any news on this one? I hope its not going to be canned.

Yeh I know, the retail aspect of the Stevedores was amazing, but one must look at it in the eyes of the buyer, if you own a boat, you not going to want to park it infront of someones coffee shop, by the apartments being on the same level as the boats it will give the owner easy access to his boat.

buddy you will be lucky if you can get a rowing boat to this dev. it will be a tiny canal like the one going past Dockpoint. just a bit of water to look at. i'd much rather have the cafes than this

yeh it is a pretty puny canal, & it cant be all that deep, even if they did have cafe's on the ground floor it still would have been cool to have than along side the canal.

Durban's Point Waterfront takes shape
24 Oct 2007 - Inet Bridge -

Intro
After decades of delays and controversy, the city’s Point Waterfront precinct is taking shape with phase 1 of the redevelopment sold out

By Nicola Jenvey

After decades of delays and controversy, the city's Point Waterfront precinct is taking shape with phase 1 of the redevelopment sold out.

This follows research released last year by YDL Property Wealth Education showing that Durban properties trade at significant discounts to comparable cities internationally. This offers investors some of the cheapest coastal real estate available anywhere.

Comparative pricing indicated the Point precinct offered luxury apartments for R22000 a square metre against the R33000 a square metre demanded for apartments on the Umhlanga Ridge and R50000 a square metre to R68000 a square metre in the Victoria and Alfred Waterfront.

The eThekwini Municipality identified the Point as the third leg in the public sector investment initiative, linking the area with the central business district around the International Convention Centre and the Suncoast Casino site to the north.

Public sector investment into the three nodes aims to precipitate exponentially greater private sector capital to boost economic development for Durban.

The move is also expected to rejuvenate the city's domestic tourism market by creating new products and interests.

This would become another pillar alongside the growth in business tourism experienced in the decade since the convention centre opened its doors.

Phase I of the Point redevelopment involved 15 land parcels launched several years ago, and have translated into multibillion rand properties on the key sea and harbour view sites.

These include the renovation by Blue Plum Developments of 29 Edwardian row houses � originally incorporating the old Port Supervisors' residences � to create Dock Point.

Blue Plum Developments director Michael Shannon said that the two-year project on the houses initially built in 1906 was SA's largest Edwardian reconstruction to date. More than half of the properties have been sold, commanding prices between R3,25m and R3,75m.

The company also developed the contemporary apartment block Marine Point with apartments on the market for up to R2,5m. Last year the Point Bastille, Dock Point and The Quays on Timeball developments were completed.

Point Bastille developer Horst Keil said the former derelict structure had been the jail built in 1932 to house black prisoners who were serving out their time as dock workers.

The "challenging redevelopment" converted the listed entity into apartments, shops and restaurants while respecting the historic value.

Key Projects director Greg Cryer said the R120m Quays and R160m Quayside on Timeball developments were sold out before construction began, while the Quaywest Hotel development brought to the market the opportunity for investment into a hotel room pool.

The trilogy accounted for 24% of the 15000m� of the retail space and 8000m� of the office space for phase I.

Among other developments also bearing witness to the redevelopment of the area were: the R400m Shaka's Gate with 220 apartments and penthouses; The Sails on Timeball, which was among the largest developments in the precinct, with 170 apartments as well as retail, entertainment and office accommodation and a hotel; and the R80m Dolphin Whispers commercial and residential development.

Business Day

http://www.eprop.co.za/news/article.aspx?idArticle=9481

Cross-post from Marine Point thread...

------------------------------------

I recently mentioned in this thread that the restaurant that has been receiving rave reviews, 'Besides the Point', was going to be moving to the apartment block, 'Marine Point'. I am pleased to announce that it has now officially opened. The interior is still being done up (paintings still to be hung up etc) but it's already looking great and is buzzy, even in its infancy.

I gave it a try and it was FANTASTIC. Friendly owners/managers, service staff, and chefs (who come out and meet patrons). But with a witty name like 'Besides the Point', what more can you expect? A special mention must go out to current co-owners, Charlie Good and Herman Chalupsky, who go out of their way to make every patron feel special.

Service was super-quick and the food was also fantastic. I highly recommend it to Durbanites and visitors to Durbs looking for a new place to hang out. The restaurant is situated diagnonally opposite Timeball Square and the landmark Timeball Tower, i.e. 30 seconds walk from the Point Waterfront centrepoint. When all the surrounding developments are done (and they're coming along very quickly), this location will be hard to beat.

Here goes, 'Besides the Point' restaurant pics...


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/BTP029.jpg



http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/BTP010.jpg



http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/BTP011.jpg

Ah my mate Herman.
Looks a bit sparse and very unfinnished

Doesnt look bad at all, being one of the 1st to open in the area, Im sure it will build up a reputation & clientel in no time.

despite people's negativity regarding the point, i think it will be a success. I like the architecture, the vibe is going to rock as soon as those buildings open. The streetscaping is nice, the canals look good. Lot of attention to detail. And on a wednesday morning with miserable weather, Ushaka was filled with visitors. To such an extent that I got irritated because you have to wait in line.

despite people's negativity regarding the point, i think it will be a success. I like the architecture, the vibe is going to rock as soon as those buildings open. The streetscaping is nice, the canals look good. Lot of attention to detail. And on a wednesday morning with miserable weather, Ushaka was filled with visitors. To such an extent that I got irritated because you have to wait in line.

i could not agree more. people's negativity will change when they can experience the area first hand. alot of people struggle to understand concepts and want to see the finished result. and that will impress them.

regards the restaurant, great to see it busy and great to see places opening in the area! the decor is a bit bland from those pics tho, and hopefully it will be stunning once fully complete. jerome, visit is in order!

Finally have some time to post some recent pics of the Point.

Timeball Tower at dusk

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/ESC021.jpg


Point Waterfront at night from Ushaka. Notice the three blue light structures that compliment each other (Timeball Tower, Millenium Tower, and the Quays).

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/ESC036_edited.jpg



The views from some of the buildings at the Waterfront. The only point in the city where you can see the skyline of the Esplanade, city centre, and the Golden Mile.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/ESC039a.jpg

damn, nice pics.

Timeball tower, facing north.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/ESC027.jpg


Spinnaker at dusk

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/ESC007a.jpg

Colourful. Thank you, Jerome!

Great pictures Romansa ty. Btw, what building do you live in there? Harbour View Hights right?

Roman you beauty! brilliant pics!

Excellent pics Jerome! Keep them coming :)

WOW jerome those pics are fantastic!! so glad you finally know how to post. Spinnaker and the whole point is looking great! more more more!

Great Pics guys! Love the night lighting effects they are doing - Timeball and Millenium towers look awesome at night.

spinnaker:) !!!

Okay, here's some pics showing why the Point Waterfront is unique in the country and going to be hard to beat when complete. These pics are at sunset from both sides of the Point peninsula...

To the *EAST* of the Point Waterfront (bordering the Indian Ocean)...

Golden sands, and the gorgeous and warm (winter: 18-20 celcius; summer: 21-25 celcius) Indian Ocean...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/I063.jpg


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/I057.jpg

At the end of this pier is where Moyo's glass bar is going to be constructed. Imagine the views!!

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB095a.jpg

Here's some pics from Moyos at Ushaka, the North end of the Point Waterfront. The location is fantastic. I've hosted overseas friends who have visited the Moyos near Stellenbosch and they loved this Moyos more, mainly because it has a spectacular location (beach and frequent views of ships entering the busiest harbour in Africa and the Southern Hemisphere) and a far more relaxed atmosphere than any of the other Moyos (people are bare feet, in bikinis, shirtless, tropical music playing in the background etc, etc. In short, it feels like you're on an tropical island). Here's why...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB103a.jpg


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB106a.jpg


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB108a.jpg


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB100a.jpg


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB109a.jpg

Drinks at a waterfront where you actually see significant ships sailing...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB115a.jpg

Now for sunset views to the *WEST* of the Point Waterfront (from along Mahatma Gandhi Rd)...

Views of the 9th busiest harbour in the world, in action...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Clipper212a.jpg

Here's a night pic of the almost complete tower at the entrance to the Point Waterfront. Tiling is almost complete and looks as if a fountain over the tiles is to follow...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Clipper216a.jpg

Nice pics.

Exellent stuff Jerome

That pic of the beach with the helicopter in it is my fav, ......& not coz it has those bikini chicks walking by ;)

......& not coz it has those bikini chicks walking by ;)

Guilty concious.

^^lol, no jus because of my reputation :D

Ai, tog, RomanSA. Always the jabs at poor old Cape Town. "Drinks at a waterfront where you actually see significant ships sailing". I just don't see Point ever being able to compete with the V&A in terms of architectural character (or are you going to throw in a couple of century old buildings, a timeball tower from 1894 and an excavated battery from 1714 too?) and quaintness, which in my mind has a lot more to do with the general character and feel of the place than a few ships floating by in the distance. So Point Waterfront being "hard to beat" - I don't think we're gonna see anyone trying to beat it, because it is just in a completely different league. Not better or worse, but probably just a little less special.

oh you boys never stop do you. Good old fasioned banter

Yes, well... someone's gotta do it. Cape Town and Durban will never be at peace! :lol:

it will, I was a full on pro Durbanite and still am but now own a farm in the Cape and Im at peace, so if I can do it anyone can

No, I know YOU are at peace. But in these forums it's always about which ICC is better, CTICC or DICC. Which airport, which hotels, who's got more blue flag beaches, which stadium is better located, Green Point or Moses Mabida, which waterfront is better, V&A or Point, which shopping centre is bigger/better, Canal Walk or Gateway, ect. etc. etc. Need I go on? I'm just saying that there will ALWAYS be rivalry and just a tad animosity between the two cities. I'm not saying it is bad...

Our water front is BIGGER than yours, lol ;)

Ai, tog, RomanSA. Always the jabs at poor old Cape Town. "Drinks at a waterfront where you actually see significant ships sailing". I just don't see Point ever being able to compete with the V&A in terms of architectural character (or are you going to throw in a couple of century old buildings, a timeball tower from 1894 and an excavated battery from 1714 too?) and quaintness, which in my mind has a lot more to do with the general character and feel of the place than a few ships floating by in the distance. So Point Waterfront being "hard to beat" - I don't think we're gonna see anyone trying to beat it, because it is just in a completely different league. Not better or worse, but probably just a little less special.

With all due respect, Caisson Boy, it's true: you don't see ships sailing from the V&A Waterfront. My overseas colleagues and I spent a week at a conference in CT last month. We stayed downtown at the Arabella Sheraton. Needless to say, with little else to in that area at 4.30pm-5pm (when the conference ended), we would invariably head to the V&A. After the 3rd straight day going there we were bored out of our minds. Essentially, it's just one massive mall. How many times can you go a mall without intending to shop (or eat) and not get bored? Granted the view of Table Mountain is stunning but we even got tired of that after the 2nd day and staring at it for 3 hours (we were at a restaurant facing it). Yes, there are quaint buildings and it is charming (CT is more than 350 years old, so it *should* boast quaint buildings!) but we didn't feel as if we had many activity options there, aside from shopping and dining. The V&A and Point Waterfronts offer different things (which is a good thing; you don't want carbon copies of developments in different cities). We just felt that, despite it being a waterfront, there were no significant ships to see, no views of the open ocean, and no place where we felt we could truely unwind. This is where the Point Waterfront has an advantage, if you're looking for more than just a visit to a collection of malls and restaurants. Go to the North end and you have the 5th biggest Marine Park in the world (with 4 separate set of activities). Go to the east end and you have views of the Indian Ocean (where you see ship activity practically every few minutes), where you can sunbathe, surf, dip your feet or swim in a warm ocean, go scuba diving(!!), sailing (the latter two being the reasons why objections have been raised to the proposed small craft harbour). Walk to the South end and you are at the mouth of the harbour (temporarily out of bounds because of the widening of the harbour mouth). Here you get closer views of the ships sailing by, the Millenium Tower, and the undisturbed lush vegetation of the Bluff Headland (the top of which will be developed into a separate but connected development with proposed link to the Point Waterfront; plans posted elsewhere). Go to the South West end and you have views of a massive working harbour. Go the centre and you have a network of canals where people go canoeing, etc. None of these involve dining or shopping, unlike the V&A where almost all activities are centered thereon. These factors and options make the Point Waterfront "special". The current range of options at the Point I've highlighted exclude the up and coming commercial developments (malls, restaurants etc) that are being developed. If the proposed small craft harbour gets the go-ahead (seems to be moving in that direction, in some form or the other), there will be a new yacht basin, complete with new entertainment options (sailing, cruising etc). At this point (no pun intended, LOL!) the V&A doesn't offer such a range of activity options. The good thing is that the Point Waterfront is still being developed and has so much of potential (let's not forget the quite developed V&A was sold earlier this year for R7 billion; the undeveloped Point Waterfront was valued last year (with just current developments, excluding new phases not yet released and developed) at R6 billion. Not bad for a new waterfront in the making.

Oh, and the Point *does* also have old, quaint, historic buildings from the turn of the century that are being restored. I'll be posting pics of them soon. Keep a look out. Yes, the V&A is "special" but I would certainly not say that the Point Waterfront is "probably just a little less special". They're different. It depends what you're looking for and how you define "special".

......more Point shots.....


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010247.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010248.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010250.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010252.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010256.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010257.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010258.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010259.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010260.jpg

wow the point is looking impressive esp. spinnaker shame about the other high-rises thou

...its even more impressive up close....those apartments are HUGE....these gonna be kewl once complete.....

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010266.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010265.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010264.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010262.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/P1010261.jpg

^^Point Bay, my bitch :D

where is dolphin wispers then, next door filling the gap up the round building?

^^No wait, I think most of them are Dolphin Whispers,
pic number 2 & 4 are Point Bay

double post

Yes, yes. I know the Point Waterfront will be 22 times the size of the V&A when complete. That is truly massive. But I still doubt whether size is everything and whether it will make up for the loss in character associated with a more intimate setting like the V&A. LET'S JUST AGREE THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR DIFFERENT THINGS.

I'm sorry that you found Cape Town such a bore. Maybe you should have tried a few of our myriad of attractions instead of just sitting in the waterfront all the time.

^^ now now boys. They are vastly different. The V&A is the benchmark, the durban point - the pretender to the title. they both need to constantly up their game and both provide fantastic opportunities for their respective cities.

Hey guys here's an update on all thats going down at the Point waterfront from a development perspective, listing new and upcoming stores as well.

The Sails on Timeball is basically complete and transfers are taking place. The entire office component has been taken up by Old Mutual properties on a 5 year lease at rates of R105/m2. Retail stores to open in the development include: Ftv lounge, a Jazz bar, Mugg and bean, 3 fashion boutiques and 3 upscale restaurants.

A new surf ski and dive shop is opening next to the "besides the point" restaurant.

A newly upgraded three storey historical building situated near the corner of Point Road and Browns Road was recently occupied by a shipping company, who leased the entire building for 5 years. Their staff compliment is approximately 150 people. The building right next door to this one has also just been let out and it is believed that it will accommodate approximately 60 people.

East Point have also managed to secure a quality business tenant for their commercial component, which is located in the old restored “harbour rope shed”. While the Spinnaker have completely leased out all their commercial space.

Rates achieved are between R90/m2 and R125/m2, easily matching the prime commercial nodes across South Africa.


Please find more project specific info in their threads

.....i think we have to wait and see because both the V&A and the Point are still under construction.....who knows what the Dubai people gonna do with the V&A??....overall, i just love both of them....


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Oct2007/P1010267.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Oct2007/P1010268.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Oct2007/P1010269.jpg


.....dolphin show is cute alright...but love this Aquarium especially the Shark tank.....


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Oct2007/P1010275.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Oct2007/P1010276.jpg

...sorry people....i don't know why all these pics looks so crappy...but hope you got the idea.....

...sorry people....i don't know why all these pics looks so crappy...but hope you got the idea.....

You do take good pics but the problem is tha they are too bright. Which camera are you sing? You can search on the web and you will definately get a forum where they will advice you as to what you need to do so that you can atke better pics.

^^ now now boys. They are vastly different. The V&A is the benchmark, the durban point - the pretender to the title. they both need to constantly up their game and both provide fantastic opportunities for their respective cities.

Problem with the Point Development is a lack of vision on the part of Brink and Sutcliffe. Instead of trying to create something unique, they are copying the V&A's small craft harbour. If this is a failure it will eventually detract from the value of the development.

The Clipper event has showcased Durban's current Marina and is a great marketing tool for the pending regeneration of the Victoria Embankment. Although this is a way off why do we need a Marina AND a small craft harbour. Instead of 2 similar facilities the City should be trying to do something unique at the Point ie: big boats in the Marina and hobies / windsurfers / divers / ski boats ect at the SCH.

Great pics Upington, yeh there are abit bright, check your exposure settings on the camera.

Upington, you might also consider a lens hood as a quick alternative to messing with exposure settings. The hood is a pain in the ass to attach and remove, but if you plan on taking several shots in bright sunlight, it's worth the trouble.

But the pictures do look good nonetheless!

Problem with the Point Development is a lack of vision on the part of Brink and Sutcliffe. Instead of trying to create something unique, they are copying the V&A's small craft harbour. If this is a failure it will eventually detract from the value of the development.

The Clipper event has showcased Durban's current Marina and is a great marketing tool for the pending regeneration of the Victoria Embankment. Although this is a way off why do we need a Marina AND a small craft harbour. Instead of 2 similar facilities the City should be trying to do something unique at the Point ie: big boats in the Marina and hobies / windsurfers / divers / ski boats ect at the SCH.

think this discussion needs to be kept to the SCH thread. But in brief i do believe the city definately needs the sch. The Durban marina is barred from ANY extra berths, and we have far too few already anyway.

and the lack of vision comment is stupid. all involved have shown great vision and faith in an area no one would touch 10 years ago.

....thanks guys....appreciate all the advise.....reduced brightness on the Pearls, Gateway and Pier and it made a huge difference....THANKS!!

think this discussion needs to be kept to the SCH thread. But in brief i do believe the city definately needs the sch. The Durban marina is barred from ANY extra berths, and we have far too few already anyway.

and the lack of vision comment is stupid. all involved have shown great vision and faith in an area no one would touch 10 years ago.

Methinks the stupid tag should go to the guys who believe that a sch at Vetch's is a good idea.......:nuts:

With regards to The Stevedores, plans still have to be approved for the latest revion, i.e addition of the canal, so dont expect much till next year.

Hey guys, back from a a nice week in Durbs, was ment to post pictures of Durban Point but i left my memory card there so will be going down in a week or so again and ill post them.

Went to the Point and i was shocked to see how development is coming along. It is such a beautiful area, looked so clean and squiky, canals look great and so are the developments there. The Sails looks almost complete, should be 100% done by end of Jan. from the looks of it. The Spinnaker is a beaut up close, also should be done soon soon. The Stevedores i see they have demolished the whole of the inside, ready for construction, prob. next year? One thing i could not find was East Point, Any news on this? has this one started, finished or canned? I looked around the rope shed (which looks really cool) and found nothing. Point Bay and Dolphen Whispers are also comming along very nicely, i just wish they would hurry up and get them done so people can move in and so can the shops. Moyo is the bomb. It is amazing and has done wonders for the area. Cape Town Fish Market is also really nice, ate there and the food was good.

Some concerns i had: The watersports clubs look worst than any picture i have ever seen, they are so run down and look like cheap shacks. Cant wait for this to be bashed down. The beach in front of the development (Not Ushaka beach) was a real disapointment: It was very dirty, cans and plastic all over the place and those damn metal pipes are still sitting there waiting to cut some kids foot off. The beach really needs a face lift.

Apart from that i was really really impressed with the area. It is a really great development and 5 - 6 years from now will be Durbans most admired area i believe. Pictures are coming soon i promise. If any one knows of or hears of any new developments please let us know asap!

All the best

^^ Water Rat's response to the above will be interesting :)

.....i was really impressed by its size myself....cherry on cake....you can walk around the development despite being under construction.....if you mean the beach below, it looks on the land uses map its part of the controversial small marina...????

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/1550804047_ad844d8c9c_o.jpg

^^ Water Rat's response to the above will be interesting :)

i agree that the Point is 'looking' good - whether or not it will, in time, overcome its fatal flaws remains to be seen.

I also agree that the clubs are looking tatty - no lease / no tenure/ = no motivation to spend anything on making them more attractive.

The situation with the beach can be put down to 'sabotage' by the City. They wont spend any money on maintaing or cleaning it up because it assists their cause to destroy it.

The big picture hasnt changed though ........without watersports what does Durban really have to offer? Or are we all turning into a bunch of fat cat wimps who prefer to guzzle down cuppacinos in fancy coffee shops instead of getting involved in some form of sporting/ recreational activity ? If the former is true the clubs will go; if the later is true the fight to keep this venue for watersports will continue .........

^^Why blame the council? surely if the clubs love the beach & area so much they should take into their responsiblity to do the area up. Im pretty sure some the memebers of the clubs are well to do. What is there if they just hire some people to clean the area up & do some upgrades to the 'shacks' to make them look more presentible & not an eye sore? I know its none their responsibilty to do so, but if you have a maid thats not cleaning your room & every week piles of clothes stack up & dust is everywhere, are you just going to leave it there until she decides to do something about it or will you clean the mess yourself?

Thanks for the responses guys. Water Rat, whats going on with the SCH? Are you guys still in discussion with the City and the developers at the moment or is everyone being very quite regarding it?

BTW Water Rat which of the clubs do you belong to?

^^Why blame the council? surely if the clubs love the beach & area so much they should take into their responsiblity to do the area up.

I strongly agree DB, even though i believe that it will be great for Durbs to have watersport and believe that those guys must be supported, I also say that they must prove to the council that they care about their sport and clean up the area. They can consult with property companies to help with landscaping and with plans to make the area better for the sport. WaterRat, I think this is the challenge for you to take action. I'm sure even investors will have interest if they see you doing something. You can't just be opposed to the planned developments with you not conducting yourselves in a proper manner. Clean up the area for God's sake.

Im pretty sure some the memebers of the clubs are well to do.
Again its their sports and they need not to even be told but they should have been proactive and cleaned up the area.

What is there if they just hire some people to clean the area up & do some upgrades to the 'shacks' to make them look more presentible & not an eye sore?
That will help the poor and they can have a stand and say they helping the poor so that council will not have an alternative and help them.

Some great images of the point development and harbour widening... for the full selection of images go to the Durban harbour thread

http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/Harbour%20Entrance/img/DHEW%202007-11-02_062.jpg

http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/Harbour%20Entrance/img/DHEW%202007-11-02_074.jpg

the density is starting to show! looking so good and makes me tingle to think how it will look

Those are breath taking pics and all this makes me feel like an excited 5 year old boy, damn!!!

Is the whole Point gonna be done in 2012?

nope, it will take a bit longer than that cos the sch delay

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/2157848065_c1d190930d_b-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/2157858429_5f2dd0c3d0_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/2158647212_a9e6deb20e_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/2144242889_d716a3183e_b.jpg

mike will all those grass banks eventually be buildings?

Yes. That's where the mixed use mall / residential development is going up.

First, HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone!!

Now, onto business...

We've seen many pics of the new developments at the Point. However, a few weeks ago it became evident that there is an apparent misconception that the Point Waterfront doesn't have any historic buildings. I promised to correct this impression and finally had the time to do so.

Below, some of the historic buildings in the Point Waterfront area that have been / are being faithfully restored. When the area is complete it will showcase a good mix of historic and modern buildings.

Now, onto the photos...

The Dockpoint restored townhouses (25 in total) represent the largest Edwardian restoration project in the country. All have exquisite wrought-iron work on them. This project excludes the neighbouring restored Edwardian buildings (such as those housing the HQ of Illanga Newspapers and occupied for the last few years just down the road and opposite the Sails), and the almost complete 2 large Edwardian townhouses at the corner of Timeball Boulevard and Browns Rd.


Dockpoint

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-005.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-006.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-007.jpg


Harbour Dredging Services building

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-161.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-171.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-164.jpg


Ports Authority Building

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali019-1.jpg


Restored public toilet

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali023.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali025.jpg


Back of Spinnaker (historic building facade was left intact and has been faithfully restored)

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali015.jpg


The historic Point Prison (which held black prisoners) in its new guise: Point Bastille development

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-191.jpg


Beautifully restored historic building just before entrance to the Waterfront

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali014.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali009.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali008a.jpg


Beautifully restored historic buildings on Mahatma Gandhi Road overlooking the harbour (which neighbour the soon to be restored Heritage Square). Love the colour they have brought to the area

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali047.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali048.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Diwali029.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-146.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB015.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB019.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB028.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/DiwaliB020.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/Dec1-144.jpg

those are some great pics jerome, so glad to see that some of those buildings have had a wonderful paint job since i was last down there. cant wait til they are filled with galleries, shops and bars

fantastic tour of Durbans historic architecture. who actually occupies thoise point rd buildings? theye were once stevedores buildings if i remember correctly

one other question, what happenms to the end of the canal in pic 1 of the post before, will it go to the sea or stay termonated like that?

WOW, nice pics. Keep them coming Jerome.

Those are great pics! Great to see those beautiful buildings being restored.

one other question, what happenms to the end of the canal in pic 1 of the post before, will it go to the sea or stay termonated like that?

Well, if the proposed plans of the Stevedores development is approved, the end of the canal at the bottom of pic will be extended under the road into the courtyard of the Stevedores. A portion of the Stevedores has already been demolished in anticipation of the proposal being approved.

The other end of the canal (at the top of the pic) runs under Timeball Boulevard and joins the spine of the main canal. The part of the canal leading to the sea is at the end and to the right of Browns Rd. This won't be done until the EIA of the small craft harbour is approved.

Thanks for the compliments, guys. I have more pics of historic buildings waiting to be renovated or being renovated. Very exciting to see the transformation. Will post pics in due course.

fantastic tour of Durbans historic architecture. who actually occupies thoise point rd buildings? theye were once stevedores buildings if i remember correctly

Thanks. However, these are just a tiny portion of the city's historic buildings.

The green building (4th from bottom) houses C2C (Cape to Cairo) nightclub. Santova House (the building in the 2 pics below C2C) houses offices of a harbour-related firm. Same with the blue building, as far as I know. Red and white building is still being restored and I'm not sure who is occupying or about to occupy that premises. Peach building at the end houses some boat-related business (repairs?), I think.

Hey guys, check out this youtube video. Very cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNtAMk9oMkA

Hi guys, am newbie here, great discussion

Just comment to romanSA regading 1.17. Is back on again and being marketed by PWR. The last I heard was that 23 residential options and 7 retail options have been taken, this before the christmas holidays.

Welcome Arstelz.

Welcome, Arstelz!

Yes, there are new 'for sale' signs on the 1.17 plot, and the development is being marketed and sold by PWV. There are also 2 renders. Looks very different from previous incarnations. Latest version appears to be a more modern design, although it's difficult to reall tell as it's a side-view render. However, it's being marketed as having it's own private canal, which are included in the render, so it seems as if the mini-canal leading from the main canal spine is definitely going ahead.

A further update is that Heritage Square is scheduled to begin construction in April 2008 for a Dec 2009 completion date.

Hey hey welcome Arstelz! please introduce yourself and let us know a bit more about u! The new 1.17 sounds great

Hi Guys thanks for the welcome, I have put a blurb in the shebeen area, but I am a civil engineer from Joburg currently in Zambia looking to retire at the Point

Hope this is not repeating what people have already seen, but since I took a few pics......

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc67/stevehanauer/Durban%20Point/23012007002.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc67/stevehanauer/Durban%20Point/23012007003.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc67/stevehanauer/Durban%20Point/23012007004.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc67/stevehanauer/Durban%20Point/23012007005.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc67/stevehanauer/Durban%20Point/23012007006.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc67/stevehanauer/Durban%20Point/23012007007.jpg

Nice pics, thanks for posting Crazy.

New pictures are always appreciated in a construction area. Thank you!

still looks a bit quite down there

half the developments are not finished, give it by the end of the year me thinks.

From actually looking at the site what is there is great, but you'll be waiting more than a year for it to be buzzing as planned. Just getting to the only 'functioning' hotel (the Quays - 3rd and 4th pics, and with a staff compliment of 2!!), one has to wind through various construction sites, and as we know there are more to follow...
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on the hotel, but it is really just a building with rooms at this stage, which is being mainly utilised by the Royal Hotel as extra beds. Well, another few years and that area will be a real drawcard for Durban...

What makes a waterfront successful?
February 06, 2008 Edition 1

Jeff McCarthy

KWAZULU-NATAL has at least two relatively successful urban waterfront developments at Richards Bay and the Point, and it is possible that a third will soon be established at Port Shepstone.

In all of these cases, the typical mix is upmarket apartment accommodation, the prime of which fronts on to a canal, bay/ocean, or river with direct access to moorings for small craft.

Usually integrated into such developments are tourism and commercial facilities that would be of interest to outsiders.

South Africa's most successful waterfront is undoubtedly Cape Town's V&A Waterfront, much of which was recently sold to an international consortium for billions of rands.

The V&A Waterfront is said to be the most visited tourist attraction in South Africa, beating even Kruger Park.

A substantial number of upmarket residents live there, co-existing with five-star hotels, and part-time lofts for the global ultra-elite, like Sir Richard Branson. Why is this not happening at Durban's Point?

An architect who is one of several in the original design there recently remarked: "The problem is that nobody lives there."

This may be a slight overstatement, but any visitor there - outside of peak holiday season - can't help but notice the empty streets and number of vacant flats in the area.
Many urban waterfronts are places used for holidays or seasonally.

During a recent (January) visit to Frejus Waterfront in the south of France, I noticed that about 90% of the roller blinds on windows were raised.

In winter, many northern hemisphere urban waterfronts clearly demonstrate their part-time nature.

However, this part-time character is much less evident in similar places that have been designed as urban villages for people to live in, and who might just happen to have a boat.

A case in point is the celebrated Port Grimaud, also in the south of France, which has earned many accolades from, among others, Britain's Prince Charles, who heaped unstinting praise on the place in the preface to Francois Spoerry's remarkable book on it, A Gentle Architecture.

Social interactions

Even in the dead of winter with a 10C noon temperature and a 80km/h Mistral wind blowing, many locals in Port Grimaud can be found going about their local business, probably wending their way ultimately to the local open-air market, bar or brasserie, where people and their social interactions are the core of waterfront life, and boats the mere backdrop.

Even so, boat trips through the canals attract the interest of tourists to the area, still in late autumn or winter.

Port Grimaud is a place that is welcoming to visitors, but which also warns you on entrance that there is 24-hour camera surveillance, and a wide range of social rules to be obeyed, so that all may have fun without annoying each other.

This is not evidently announced on entry to the nearby, yet winter-desolate, Frejus waterfront, which happens to back on to a relatively poor residential area, with a fairly high proportion of immigrants.

By contrast, inland of Port Grimaud is relatively benign, with not much to write home about, but inoffensive, used car lot and mixed land use territory.

Could this be the key difference? The approach to waterfronts?
Let us probe this possibility further.

On a recent trip to New York City in mid-early winter/December, I made it my business to see what was happening with urban waterfronts there.

It is often forgotten that Manhattan alone has more than 30km of urban perimeter fronting on to water, and adjacent New Jersey, Brooklyn and Staten Island - all looking directly at the Manhattan skyline - have even more frontage.

So presumably there have been opportunities galore for Point-type developments in this, the world's most entrepreneurial city (which incidentally attracted a record 46 million visitors, who spent more than R200 billion - enough spend to fuel the equivalent of 10 new Gateway shopping centres, last year).

Despite such spectacular attractiveness and economic might, combined with tens of kilometres of potentially convertible waterfront, waterfront development here has been relatively slow and has received mixed reactions. (See for example two good books on the subject - Philip Loplate's Waterfront: A Walk Around Manhattan, and Kevin Bone's The New York Waterfront).

Of course, like Durban, New York has for long been a working, industrial port, and major portions of this frontage will thus never really be suitable for the type of waterfront development we are now seeing at Durban's Point.

Indeed, major sections of Manhattan were cut off from the water by freeways, and socially and physically hostile rail and warehouse districts - the sort of environment in which many a Mafia movie has been filmed in.

On the other hand, like at Durban's Point, major stretches of especially older, former docking areas on Manhattan have since lost their relevance for shipping, and adjacent piers and warehouses have fallen into disuse.

However, for almost 20 years now there has been a city hall-led crackdown on crime such that even the Mafia have left Manhattan, and their (mainly Russian) replacements now apparently hold court mostly in Brooklyn.

So safe are the lower west side Manhattan port warehouse districts, that even absent-minded-professor-I, and my diminutive Franco-Mauritian wife, were walking though them for a distance of about 5km with not a homeless person or loiterer in sight, not a policeman, and also not a hint of social threat.

Thirty years ago if I had done that, I would surely have been mugged at the very least, and no sane middle-class woman would have been seen near me (in fact, 30 years ago on those same streets, a policeman scurried over to me advising me to please not park anywhere there or my car would disappear).

On the whole, then, excellent law enforcement has enhanced the prospects for waterfront revival.

And, also on the whole, those Manhattan waterfronts that have had somewhat better approaches or "backdoor hinterlands", such as those on the East Side or near the financial district (in the south), have developed sooner and better than others have.

Not threatening

This same set of factors presumably partly explains the relatively strong early start of Cape Town's V&A Waterfront versus Durban's Point.

The former has the advantage that its land side entry zones are not nearly as threatening as the approaches to Durban's Point are (here my wife would definitely not walk with me on the sidewalk, even for 100m).
The complexity of the matter of relative waterfront performance, however, cannot simply be boiled down to matters of relative qualities of the approaches there and crime control.

Returning to New York, despite the truly stunning success of Manhattan as a whole, its waterfront developments are just so-so, either in comparison to other Manhattan districts, or compared to better Mediterranean waterfronts like Port Grimaud.

The problem is that in virtually all of New York, waterfront developments have been somewhat artificial but without the Manhattan social buzz, and it is this social emptiness that sets them apart from more successful waterfronts elsewhere, including the V&A Waterfront and Port Grimaud.

Philip Loplate in his book alluded to earlier, quotes the director of the (New York) Metropolitan Waterfront Alliance on the problem: "The fight to create waterfront access was won by the aesthetes. Decades of decay and encroaching blight had to be beaten back. Flowers replacing corrugated steel."

Yet, as Loplate himself observed of even one of the most successful waterfront developments near the financial district: "The final, most telling irony is that (it) feels like a stage set. It incorporates all the most up-to-date urbanistic wisdom, but it's not fully alive . . . there's no street life, no pedestrian flow . . . (it is) veddy, veddy propuh, using the finest materials and carefully detailed. Meant to be looked at, not played in".

Coming back to Durban's Point, the key issue is whether it can/will become a more "lived in" precinct, safe and with people playing alongside each other by agreed and enforced social rules, with its back to relatively friendly or at least sterile entrance-ways?

If so, it should be able to join the ranks of the internationally more successful waterfronts.

If not, as some of the New York cases suggest, all the money in the world is unlikely to help it.

Prof Jeff McCarthy is a KwaZulu-Natal development consultant

Thanks for the article Water rat. Agree on some statemants and disagree on others.

Can you please give us an update on whats happening with the SCH? Last i heard was that a dissision would be made this January. Please let us know whats happening.

Thanks mate

I remember phase 1 of the V&A opening and it was the biggest white elephant ever, took 5 years to stabalize as a destination and then took off. The point will have the same growing pains and as its constantly under construction its not an ideal place to live at present

Thanks for the article Water rat. Agree on some statemants and disagree on others.

Can you please give us an update on whats happening with the SCH? Last i heard was that a dissision would be made this January. Please let us know whats happening.

Thanks mate

hi Luff - agree about the article. I quoted verbatim from the version printed in the Mercury last week.

I'm not sure that a decision will be made in the near future. too many unanswered questions at this stage.

A few months ago (Nov '07) Issue 6 of the newsletter "To the Point" was published. It contained a few additional renders of the new proposed hotel and marina development that is currently being evaluated re: EIA. I don't think these have been posted.


Looks quite sweet.

Enjoy...

----------------------

Overview of revised Small Craft Harbour

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/scan0004.jpg


North-facing view

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/scan0001.jpg


East-facing (sea-facing) view

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/scan0003a.jpg

West-facing view from current Vetch's pier

Little strip of water would be the snorkling / scuba diving lagoon


http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/ja65sin/scan0003b.jpg

Wow nice.

looks pretty shweet to me, but something tells me theres going to be moaning about this design as well.

Courtesy of the guys from pixmanimages.co.za

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_008.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_017.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_021.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_026.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_029.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_035.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_039.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_040.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_042.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_044.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_047.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_069.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_076.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_077.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_079.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_086.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_097.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_100.jpg

WOW! Those pics are amazing. The best of the harbour widening I've seen so far, by far. Good find, DB!

My other comments and questions:

1. I'm amazed at how much progress has been made on the new North pier. Impressive!

2. It must be freaky being the operator of those earth-movers at the tip. What if the ground becomes unstable and just collapses as its being dug? The mover would sink super-fast because of its weight. Hope the operators have good insurance!

3. I'm amazed at how calm the waters are within the old pier and new pier, and the latter is not even complete. Makes me wonder whether the concerns re: rough waters in the proposed SCH are warranted as both ends of the SCH will have (longer) piers which will have a major calming effect, as is apparently the case now.

4. I'm curious about the 2 north-facing mini-piers sticking out the old pier being demolished. Purpose?

Absolutly amazaing pics . I hope the excavator operators have been tested and able to swim

went to this guys site and looked at the wideing project files from Dec and whats happening at the wkhaling station? Looks like a precast year but its on the wrong soide of the harbour and the blocks would need to be transported across the harboutr mouth

looking good. thanx for the update.

Regards that Jeff McCarthy article... places take years to settle. who in their right mind would move into some of the canal apartments now as u are hemmed in by construction. I know many people with apartments that are empty down there, but they plan to move in when construction chills and there are places to go. it still needs more time

Does anyone have a diagram on the port widening? Trying to picture what is going on

The major change will be that the Northern Pier (where that suicidal oke is using the excavator) will be removed, and new Northern Pier constructed further to the north. You can see the beginnings of the new Northern Pier (it's currently much shorter than its soon-to-be-removed predecessor) in several of the pictures. There will be other changes (for instance, an upgraded sand dredging system), but the most noticeable change will be the wider harbour mouth facilitated by removing the old pier and constructing a new one further north.

lol, I wouldnt want to be that oke in the digger up front, maybe if it were a submarine type one then maybe.

Eish... those are some AWESOME photos...

Still trying to wrap my mind around what it will look like when its done.

Can you guys post the "BEFORE" pics of the development.

Before

http://www.camera-africa.com/J22/Durban-aerial_large.jpg

Now

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DHEW20620Feb202008_042.jpg

After

http://i25.tinypic.com/11udll0.jpg

Heres some pics of the service tunnel

http://www.tunnels.mottmac.com/scaled/ae27d08f.jpeg

http://www.concretesociety.co.za/images/Durbantun.jpg

& found out who they guys with the big cahoonah's to be playing with an escavator on the Pier
http://www.ttmarine.co.za/

Is the water treatment plant vanishing in all of this or are they going to build around it?

http://i25.tinypic.com/11udll0.jpg



Nice one DB!! Thanks

Thanx DB.

DB you forgot to extend ( I mean paste) the pier

Is the water treatment plant vanishing in all of this or are they going to build around it?

it is going...i dont know if a new one is being built or incorporated somehow into the point dev plans

DB, thanks for your artwork! Much better than my words.

4. I'm curious about the 2 north-facing mini-piers sticking out the old pier being demolished. Purpose?

I am too. I grew even more curious after taking SA Boy's advice and looking at the other pictures taken by this fellow. In his first picture set (http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/Harbour%20Entrance/index.html) (from November 2007), those two mini-piers do not appear. (See here (http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/Harbour%20Entrance/DHEW%202007-11-02_019.html) for example.) As for their purpose... :dunno: I can't figure out why anyone would build two piers smack in the middle of what will eventually be the shipping channel.

My first thought was that the mini-piers are being built in order to haul rubble from the existing pier to the site of the new pier. I decided against this explanation because:
1.) As I wrote above, the mini-piers will need to be demolished once construction finishes
2.) Wouldn't it be easier to haul the rubble from the existing pier back to land, then haul it out along the new pier, dumping it and extending the new pier with each load?

So I'm stumped by these piers. (Also stumped by the activity SA Boy spotted (http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/Harbour%20Entrance/DHEW%202007-11-02_049.html) near the old whaling station on the ocean side of the Bluff.)

The whole project is being kept pretty low key & nobody seems interested in it. Even in the media the port expansion hold has also just gone done the drain with no one following up on it. No idea what the mini piers are for & doesnt make sense if they are dumping rubble on that end.

Regards to the Whale station, also a big angaaz

Vetch's is a national treasure
Boating and yachting clubs have put up a strong fight against council's plans to relocate them. John Vassilaros of the Durban Paddle Ski Club puts their case
February 22, 2008 Edition 1
John Vassilaros

Who would have believed that our municipality would one day team up with a private developer, go headlong against well-founded objections and deny its ratepayers access to its most valuable asset - the Indian Ocean at Vetch's beach?

For many of us, this facility is one of our special attractions and the prime motivating force for wanting to live in this city. Sadly, the municipality's intentions are now abundantly clear. "Go with our inflexible iconic proposals" is their stance, no matter how unfeasible and disastrous these may turn out, no matter that the EIA (environmental impact assessment report) for the small craft harbour has not been approved and is seemingly running into difficulties, or be damned. The Durban Paddle Ski Club was served eviction notices during the Christmas period, strangely enough, the day after the lawyers closed office for the festive season.

Together with the Durban Ski Boat Club, Durban Undersea Club and Point Yacht Club, we contribute an estimated R500 million a year to the economy, sustaining 4 100 jobs in the process, according to an economic assessment by Cyrus Rustomjee. These clubs have been created, funded and run by the public without ever receiving any financial assistance from the government or the municipality.

Not only do these clubs take care of all the safety requirements, thus relieving the port authorities of this responsibility, but also offer the public all the necessary boating amenities promoting a healthy outdoor environment. As Durban strives to promote itself as a major coastal holiday destination, the watersports clubs add life, vibe and character to this city. Our municipality has an obligation to provide recreational facilities for its citizens, but in the case of boating, not only has it failed dismally, but it is now attempting to destroy what the public has created. This is disgraceful.

The Durban Paddle Ski Club has always deliberately kept fees to a bare minimum, thus making the sport affordable even to the lowest income groups. Current fees are R290 a year. Vetch's Beach is unique and a most valuable asset to this city, offering its citizens and visitors most ocean-going activities such as skiboating, sailing, spear fishing, snorkelling, scuba diving, paddle skiing, surfing, wind surfing, sunbathing, safe swimming and other beach related pastimes. It is a truly all-round family beach found nowhere else along the country's coastline. If the proposed small craft harbour is approved, most of these activities would cease to exist, robbing many citizens of their only access to the ocean, and in its stead, chunks of concrete for the elite.

The Durban Paddle Ski Club has never been opposed to the Point development, but it is the creation of a small craft harbour on Vetch's Beach that we find unacceptable.

As a 50% shareholder, the municipality has for far too long been hiding behind the club and has not taken responsibility for the rights of its own citizens. It has allowed a private developer to dictate to the whole city and the boating fraternity what we should accept. Despite hundreds of concerns and objections raised by the public and various organisations since 2003, the original plans for the craft harbour have hardly changed.

There can be no doubt that the municipality and its developer allies have been ignoring the needs of the citizens as this development is driven by greed to achieve maximum profits for a select few at the expense of the ratepayer. Is that what the city really wants?

After careful consideration including getting advice from professional accountants and environmentalists, at considerable cost, we find the proposal made to the clubs totally unreasonable and economically non-viable. It requires us to raise and service a loan in excess of R20 million to construct a suitable building to accommodate the four existing clubs.

With additional costs from municipal rates and levies, membership to such a club, which by law must remain a non-profit organisation, will be out of the reach of the ordinary citizen.

There are also huge doubts as to whether all of the approximately 3 000 current combined members will retain their membership, as most of the current natural attractions will disappear should the craft harbour be approved. Going along with this deal would be committing financial suicide.

A memorandum of agreement was drawn up by the club approximately a year ago and although negotiations are still taking place, to date no club has signed it.

The Durban Paddle Ski Club were the first to identify all its pitfalls and made it clear that we had no intention of ever signing it, even though all the clubs were threatened with eviction should we not sign. Project director Neels Brink and city manager Mike Sutcliffe now seem desperate for the clubs to sign this agreement to prove to the authorities that the boating clubs "have been accommodated," and are attempting to evict the paddle skiers to intimidate the other clubs to co-operate.

These bullying tactics are shameful to the supposedly transparent and fair EIA process and only help to raise the level of mistrust that has existed since day one between the public and the club.

At present, the ( should read DPDC )club is negotiating with Transnet to buy the land below the high-water mark, including the seabed of Vetch's Beach, with a figure of R55 million being mentioned in the press.

In a letter dated August 1 2007 to Max Singh of Pravin Amar, the consultants, Brink makes the following comment: "We believe the above documentation provides ample proof of the legitimacy of our position to apply for this approval and believe that the substance and detail of the commercial agreements between the club and Transnet is not for public disclosure and need not be finalised before this application can be finalised."

In other words, he is prepared to use more ratepayers' money to purchase the beach to evict the same ratepayer off our property and keep us in the dark until the deal is done. So much for the "Batho Pele" principles of transparency, fairness and access to information. This suggests to us the seemingly devious means that the developers have apparently resorted to.

The Durban Paddle Ski Club have reported this matter to Marthinus van Schalkwyk, the Minister of Environmental Affairs, who has taken this issue seriously and is currently investigating it from a national level. The eviction notices we have received have been anticipated and are nothing more than punitive measures for our stance, which we believe, is within our constitutional rights. We are now left with no option but to let the legal process take its course.
Brink's allegations that the clubs are restricting access to the public can only be described as lame and quite pathetic. Ever since the clubs were formed, more than 50 years ago, not a single complaint has been lodged from the public regarding access to this beach.

The Durban Paddle Ski Club provides access to the public at all times through our property and we invite the developers and the public to come down and see for themselves. In the economic assessment of the EIA by Rustomjee, he makes the following comment: "Extreme care should be taken with Vetch's Pier during construction such that this valuable asset and diving attraction is not lost."

In conclusion, we find the eviction notices arrogant and vindictive, and show a presumption by Sutcliffe and Brink that the small craft harbour will be approved despite the fact that the issue of land ownership below the high-water mark has still not been resolved.

We believe that the beach and the seabed do not belong to the municipality, not to Transnet, not any private company, but to the public. We believe that this piece of paradise is worth fighting for, and we shall do everything to preserve it, not only for our members and the public, but for future generations.

The whole project is being kept pretty low key & nobody seems interested in it. Even in the media the port expansion hold has also just gone done the drain with no one following up on it. No idea what the mini piers are for & doesnt make sense if they are dumping rubble on that end.

Regards to the Whale station, also a big angaaz

some ideas from my contacts :

New sand pump scheme to remove littoral drift sand that piles up against south pier and that is responsible for the formation of the sand bar.

construction of dolosse to refurb the south breakwater.

no idea about the little piers coming off the northern breakwater.

lots of money to spend on a project that was to serve expansion of the port ,that has now been put on the back burner.

Thanks for the article water rat! One thing i really really disagree on is this point:

[QUOTE]Brink's allegations that the clubs are restricting access to the public can only be described as lame and quite pathetic. Ever since the clubs were formed, more than 50 years ago, not a single complaint has been lodged from the public regarding access to this beach.

This is bullshit! when I was there i walked up to that security gaurd at the your boom and was turned away saying i that this was private property and i must access the beach from Ushaka. I argued with him and created quite a stir! Some members of the club approached me and started shouting at me saying that i had no right to walk through there car park to get to the beach. I eventually told them wear to shove it and walked around. I saw the same thing happening to a couple with an eldely person as well. They made an ealdly person walk all the way to ushaka because they claim that the land is PRIVATE property and for members ONLY.

Thats my rant:)

Thanks for the article water rat! One thing i really really disagree on is this point:

[QUOTE]Brink's allegations that the clubs are restricting access to the public can only be described as lame and quite pathetic. Ever since the clubs were formed, more than 50 years ago, not a single complaint has been lodged from the public regarding access to this beach.

This is bullshit! when I was there i walked up to that security gaurd at the your boom and was turned away saying i that this was private property and i must access the beach from Ushaka. I argued with him and created quite a stir! Some members of the club approached me and started shouting at me saying that i had no right to walk through there car park to get to the beach. I eventually told them wear to shove it and walked around. I saw the same thing happening to a couple with an eldely person as well. They made an ealdly person walk all the way to ushaka because they claim that the land is PRIVATE property and for members ONLY.

Thats my rant:)

hey Luff i fully agree with you.

All is not well in developer land

Durban's Point project sinks

One of the Point Waterfront's plush developments is set to lose millions of rands after serious defects in construction caused the structure to "skew".

Some of the city's well-known business personalities have suffered huge financial losses.

Among those who have suffered losses with the liquidation of the property development company, Dolphin Whispers, is former president Nelson Mandela's granddaughter, Nandi Mandela and five Durban businessmen, Henry Masinga, Vaughn Charles, Marcel Henry, Rajen Naidoo and Craig Simmer.

Simmer is also involved in the running of the embattled Remant Alton, the company which runs the crumbling former Durban Transport bus service.

The city is planning to take back the bus service from Remant Alton after several attempts to bail it out have failed.

Dolphin Whispers has been liquidated after its directors allegedly failed to complete one of the Point Waterfront's multi-million rand up-market residential buildings.

The building is part of the Durban Waterfront Precinct, which is the city's residential and commercial development flagship project aimed at rejuvenating the Point Waterfront area.

Pietermaritzburg liquidator, Kurt Knoop, said Dolphin Whispers has been liquidated, because its directors "failed to furnish" the bond holder (Ithala Bank) with guarantees.

The bank, which lent the property development company R54-million for the construction of the building, requested more guarantees after the company ran into what they termed "serious financial shortfalls" which at present sit at R14-million.

The construction of the building began in 2005 and the contractor was Prainder Civils and Earthworks.

The liquidator said that in 2007 the architect and an engineer refused to sign a certificate for the project after serious structural defects were found.

Late in 2007, litigation between Dolphin Whispers and Prainder Civils and Earthworks CC began and eventually the contract was terminated.

Knoop said that in November last year, another contractor, Dezzo Projects was appointed to correct all serious structural defects in the 10-storey building.

"Dezzo Projects has also stopped working because there is no money to pay staff and to finance the remaining construction needed to complete the project," he said.

"Ithala Bank stopped payments because Dolphin Whispers failed to provide the bank with guarantees."

He said the estimated shortfall stood at R14-million as a result of additional costs caused by delays.

People who have paid deposits for apartments will have to wait another 16 months before they can occupy their properties, he said.

Knoop has assured buyers who had already paid for their apartments they would not lose.

"People who have paid deposits will not lose their money, it is with the attorney," he said.

Knoop said they were considering two options to ensure the building was completed.

"Liquidators can sell the building as it stands or continue building it and pay the creditors," he said.

Dolphin Whispers' attorney, Neeraj Ramnarain said it was unfortunate that the company was liquidated.

"My clients do not oppose the liquidation. We seek to finalise the order. An advertisement will be placed in newspapers this week," said Ramnarain.

He said his clients could suffer a "huge" potential financial loss as a result of the liquidation.

Ithala Bank spokesperson Zama Mosery declined to comment.


• This article was originally published on page 1 of The Daily News on March 14, 2008



The economic fall out from the failed development, known as Dolphin Whispers, could be severe. This, coupled with uncertainty on global stock markets caused, in part, by reckless lending in the American property market, could put the Point Development back by years. It is rumoured that some developments in the precinct have been canned due to lack of support, escalating costs and higher interest rates.

So how does this effect Vetch's? If the development is stalled for some years, the precinct could slip into a state of limbo. If this happens and some developers are forced into bankruptcy,buildings could be auctioned off at a fraction of their value.Will buyers want to purchase 'luxury' apartments on a perpetual building site? Could we see buildings being taken over by 'slumlords' with the inevitable consequences?

If there is even the slightest possibility that this scenario could become reality, Dr Sutcliffe and Neels Brink should be called upon to provide the clubs' management and with a full report on the current status of the development.We have the right to know; the DPDC is, after all, trying to force us into spending r20 million to build a new club in an elite environment. Are we being pushed into marketing the DPDC at our expense?

This is bullshit! when I was there i walked up to that security gaurd at the your boom and was turned away saying i that this was private property and i must access the beach from Ushaka. I argued with him and created quite a stir! Some members of the club approached me and started shouting at me saying that i had no right to walk through there car park to get to the beach. I eventually told them wear to shove it and walked around. I saw the same thing happening to a couple with an eldely person as well. They made an ealdly person walk all the way to ushaka because they claim that the land is PRIVATE property and for members ONLY.

Thats my rant:)[/QUOTE]

Luf you amaze me with your arrogance

If you where a member of a golf or rugby club or any other private club for that matter and you where paying to be a member of that club how would you like the general public just wondering through your property. And just to get the record strait once again as you chaps appear to have attention defecate disorder. The beach does not belong to the clubs it is free to be used by any member of the public and the upkeep of the beach is the responsibility of the city council… now what part of this are you unable to understand.

Mr. Brink has alleged in the press that one of the reasons he is evicting our club, is to provide the
citizens of Durban access to Vetch’s Beach, as the clubs have been restricting access through their
gates and fences. Very noble of him. But he has twisted and misinterpreted the facts. We rightfully
view this contention as clutching at straws – what he contends can only be described as lame and quite
pathetic. It is amazing and significant that ever since the clubs were formed over 50 years ago, not a
single complaint has ever been lodged from the public regarding access to this beach. But now that
Mr. Brink has financial interests on the Point, he acts suddenly as the philanthropic protector of
citizens’ rights. It disturbs us that even the municipal manager made similar allegations at a public
meeting in October 2006.

Vetch’s Beach is a Government-appointed launch site designated for the boating fraternity of the city.
It’s as simple as that. All the clubs are mandated by The Harbour Master to operate there and in
accordance with South African Maritime Law all persons operating a vessel within his jurisdiction,
MUST belong to one of the clubs.

If Mr. Brink had bothered to read his own Social Impact Assessment undertaken by Professor Di Scott and
her team at the University of Natal, he would have noted the following statement: “Vetch’s Beach is a
public beach that is accessible and affordable to the public.” Furthermore, 80% of the beach survey
respondents were non-club members. How did they get there? For Mr. Brink’s information, the Durban Paddle
Ski Club provides access to the public at all times through our property and we invite him and the public
as well to come down and see for themselves. But please do not bring your cars down, because the municipality
has provided no parking facilities at all. Mr. Brink’s comments become even more feeble, when one thinks
of the vacant properties on either side of our site that are still being fenced off by his own company.
Access through the old abandoned National Sea Rescue building, which has become a haven for dozens of
illegal aliens, is being denied to the public by Mr. Brink’s own fence and gate. It is also quite ironic
that during the Christmas period, lifesavers acting under the instructions of the municipal manager prevented
the public from entering the water on Vetch’s Beach.

Who exactly is denying access? Mr. Brink also fails to inform us that should the small craft harbour be approved,
the whole stretch of beach will be buried under concrete and steel and will be lost to the public for ever.
But why would he worry about that? He isn’t going to hang around. As soon as he has collected his bounty,
he would be off on his next venture to destroy somebody else’s paradise some place else.
In the economic assessment of the EIA undertaken by Dr. Cyrus Rustomjee, he makes the following comment:
“Extreme care should be taken with Vetch’s Pier during construction such that this valuable asset and
diving attraction is not lost.” It is an absolute disgrace, that an economist that is not even familiar
with the area, has the wisdom to recognize the value of Vetch’s Pier, while Ezemvelo Wildlife, who are
mandated to protect this popular and unique reef, choose to remain silent as our own municipality is
prepared to smother it with tons of concrete. We are also extremely disappointed at the lack of concern
shown by the diving fraternity regarding the future of Vetch’s Pier, as the destruction of this reef will
have an immense impact on their sport.

In conclusion, we find the eviction notices arrogant vindictive and presumptuous on the part of Dr. Sutcliffe
and Mr. Neels Brink that the small craft harbour will be approved despite the crucial fact that the issue of
land ownership below the high-water mark has still not been resolved. We believe that the beach and the seabed
do not belong to the municipality or Transnet or any private company or individual, but to the citizens of this
country. We believe that this piece of paradise is worth fighting for, and we shall do everything within our power
and our legal rights to protect it and preserve it, not only for our members and the general public, but for future
generations. If it takes the smallest of all the clubs on the Point to stand up for the rights of the people,
while others sit on the side and watch, then so be it. While we are prepared to take this issue to the highest
court if need be, our municipal manager and our city fathers should, in the meantime, be hanging their heads in shame.

great look whos back

no idea about the little piers coming off the northern breakwater.

[/QUOTE]

They have hit a rock outcrop, possibly an extension of limestone reef.
The groins are to stop the sand covering the rock while they extract it

The economic fall out from the failed development, known as Dolphin Whispers, could be severe. This, coupled with uncertainty on global stock markets caused, in part, by reckless lending in the American property market, could put the Point Development back by years. It is rumoured that some developments in the precinct have been canned due to lack of support, escalating costs and higher interest rates.

So how does this effect Vetch's? If the development is stalled for some years, the precinct could slip into a state of limbo. If this happens and some developers are forced into bankruptcy,buildings could be auctioned off at a fraction of their value.Will buyers want to purchase 'luxury' apartments on a perpetual building site? Could we see buildings being taken over by 'slumlords' with the inevitable consequences?


This is exactly what I've said on the Dolphin Whispers thread. It looks like the Point will be Hillbrow all over again. It isn't just rumoured that developments have been canned as it is already known that the two towers planned for the Point, San Raphael and The Mast, were canned last year for this exact reason. The market simply cannot sustain massive inflationary pressures and escalating building costs at this time...and everyone will be subjected to the 60% increase in electricity prices from Eskom too!

This is exactly what I've said on the Dolphin Whispers thread. It looks like the Point will be Hillbrow all over again.

As usual, you are a beacon of optimism.

I don't want to waste my time replying to your throwaway line above so I'll simply say that there is a **big** difference between the Point Waterfront and Hillbrow. Perhaps you should visit both again.

Though i agree with alot of points Mosi-oa-Tunya makes, i find it hard to believe that the Point will turn into another Hillbrow. I visited the area a few days ago and it still looks amazing. Point Bay is also most complete and the Sails have really made the are more lively (Kids where playing soccer by the canal and people where walking up and down)

I get the feeling that the Point Management is concentrating so much on getting the SCH sorted out that it is to the detriment of the rest of the area.

I have also complained and complained to you guys (and to the City Council) and i am pleased to report that the beach was looking great. That damn pipe had been removed and little was very well under control.

I just wish things where abit faster and actually happening. If any one has any new news regard the point please let us know.
Have a great (short) week guys!

As usual, you are a beacon of optimism.

I don't want to waste my time replying to your throwaway line above so I'll simply say that there is a **big** difference between the Point Waterfront and Hillbrow. Perhaps you should visit both again.

Well, the same thing was said about Hillbrow in the 1970s. I was there and remember vividly the area's decline following the 1976 riots and the turmoil in the 1980s. It was the area to be at that time with Ponte City, etc. You were probably not old enough to remember. As you may recall all the business had moved en mass to Sandton. The way that it declined was sad and I fear the same might happen to the Point as businesses and people flee the inner city decay and grime and relocate to Umhlanga. When the economy was booming sure the Point can be sustained but now we are in a downturn, I cannot be too sure that Umhalanga will put the Point under due to increased competition in a fast shrinking market.

I just wish things where abit faster and actually happening. If any one has any new news regard the point please let us know.
Have a great (short) week guys!

I've been missing the pics too. I hope the Durban folks can get them posted. I wish things were happening faster too just like I wish SA economy would grow faster and that the ANC get it's act together on Eskom.

@RomanSA

I believe you live at the Point. Could you give us some feedback on the area.
What you think about and the progress thats being made, what you like and dislike.
Would be nice to get a response from some one who actually lives there.
Thanks alot mate, looking forward to what you have to say:)

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DSC07481Large.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DSC07670Large.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DSC07671Large.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/DSC07683Large.jpg

Some really bad Pano's!!!

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/pano1Large.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/pano2Large-1.jpg

what will happen to that bank that looks like its colapsing into he sea in the first pano?

Dno, ask ratty boy

that will form part of the seaward reclamation of land if the sch goes ahead

Read this article in the paper (the star i think) yesterday.
http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=4332641

Durban Point Waterfront sits at crossroad
April 2, 2008

By SAMANTHA ENSLIN-PAYNE

Durban - Durban Point Waterfront, the city’s flagship upmarket residential, retail and leisure development, is at a crossroad. Environmental approval for a small-craft harbour will unleash a new phase of shopping centres, office blocks and residential developments, taking the project to completion.

But if the green light for this harbour is not provided, the future of the area will become uncertain.

Colin Sher, the sales manager for the Durban Point Development Company (DPDC), said last week: “We have to be confident we will get environmental approval. We can’t think about not getting it.”

The company is a joint venture between Rocpoint, a subsidiary of Malaysian group Renong, and the Durban Infrastructural Development Trust, owned by the eThekwini Municipality. Metallon Properties has a contract to manage the development.

Since April 2003, when the project was launched, and April 2005, sites worth R200million were sold where developments worth about R1.8 billion have been built. Of the 14 developments, predominately residential, 12 have been completed.

The city has spent about R300 million while the DPDC has spent about R166 million providing bulk services and roads. The project also includes uShaka Marine World, which opened in 2004.

“Huge costs are still to come,” Sher said.

Pending environmental approval, about R735 million will be spent to build the small-craft harbour and deep water canals, which will be linked to the harbour through a lock system. This will be funded from further land sales. The project could be completed in about 2012.

But some property owners are nervous about whether the small-craft harbour and the subsequent investment will materialise. There have been strong objections to the harbour, as it will provide less space for the watersport clubs currently based on the site and will affect marine life.

The provincial department of environmental affairs and tourism could not be reached to comment on when the record of decision would be issued.

Those holding property must be all too keen to see the harbour, which will be home to luxury yachts, go ahead.

Cecily Deetlifs, the principal of Tyson Properties uShaka, said recently that a lot of people who bought in the area had been unable to get rentals to cover their bonds.

“We’re getting some distressed sales,” Deetlifs said, advising people to hold onto their properties.

Nic Steyn, the developer of Point Bay, said sales had slowed due to the general dampening of the property market countrywide and more specifically the pending decision on the small-craft harbour. “But we are still getting inquiries and some sales,” Steyn said.

Of the 69 apartments at Point Bay, 63 have been sold. Apartments of 98m² with two bedrooms and two bathrooms have sold for about R1.4 million, while the 300m² penthouse sold for R7.5 million.

Michael Shannon and Alan Burke have restored Dock Point Edwardian houses into upmarket homes through their Blue-Plum Developments, and built Marine Point – a block of open-plan residential apartments.

Shannon said recently that at Marine Point, completed in late 2006, 23 of the 27 apartments available had been
sold for between R975 000 and R2.4 million. He said there had been second sales and sellers had seen price increases on their original purchase of between 10 percent and 20 percent.

Dock Point houses were selling for between R3.2 million and R3.8 million.

Of the 25 units, nine were still up for sale. Shannon said the value of these homes had increased to between R14 000 to R15 000 a square metre from R12 200 in 2006.

Compared with Cape Town prices, however, the Durban Point Waterfront appears to be good value. At the Victoria and Alfred Waterfront in Cape Town, residential property sells for between R40 000 and R60 000 a square metre.

But the development is now in a lull. Sher said further land could not be released for sales until approval of the harbour.

As a result, about a year has been lost in the timetable for the whole development, meaning momentum has slowed.

The Point, as an unfinished development, offers little in the way of supermarkets and other services, which has made it unattractive to tenants.

Sher said the DPDC was ready to release a 110 000m² site on which a 40 000m² shopping centre would be developed Another aspect that could turn investors off is the approach to the Point Waterfront, which is along Point Road – known as the city’s red light district.

But already developments at the Point Waterfront have encouraged the refurbishment of office blocks along Point Road.

Properties in areas close to the Point Waterfront, such as South Beach, some parts of which have slipped into decay, are now fetching prices three times higher than what they were a few years ago.

:ohno:

that will form part of the seaward reclamation of land if the sch goes ahead

Dysan, Heard anything new about the SCH? Been rather quiet for a few months in terms of press releases, which is quite worrying

^^ well if it is still in the EIA phase we not going to get any releases. when a decision is made thats when we will know and can chat, until that point we have to push them to hurry it up. it doesnt worry me that a decision isnt final, it worries me that i dont know that date for when it is to be made

Thanks for the reply mate, i agree, also worries me regarding the date. But i suppose these things take time.

The only reasons sales sped up of Point bay was the because the sales team used the SCH as a catalyst & if this doesnt go ahead we going to have some unhappy tenants!

^^ Yip, some very very unhappy tennants.

What you guys think, Should we hear if it does or does not go through within the next month or two?

I think no matter what the decision is going to be, we are going to see appeal after appeal..

Yeah, there will be appeal after appeal on this issue, esp if it gets the green light, and I honestly think it will be coming from short sighted people.

Durban needs something like this SCH to position itself positively in the international Tourist market, and the people who have those "super" yachts(not the things like Octupus, but like ForePlay). Can you just imagine how amazing it will look to be at uShaka and looking out into the SCH and seeing a scene somewhat reminiscent of Monaco?

Toxic, everytime I see Monaco I remember the fact that I need to play lotto. That's one place that I have to visit before I die but if SCH goes through, why should one go to Monaco? Durban relly need this and I just wish that the decision goes the way of the developers.

Pule : My thoughts exactly.. :).

I will visit Monaco before I die... it just HAS to be done, and preferably over the F1 weekend. But over the A1 weekend, if we play it properly, Durban can have a similar vibe to Monaco, even though the track doesn't come very close to the area the SCH is planned for.

Its the one thing Durban lacks in the bay really, is lots of pleasure boats like there should be...

Pule : My thoughts exactly.. :).

I will visit Monaco before I die... it just HAS to be done, and preferably over the F1 weekend. But over the A1 weekend, if we play it properly, Durban can have a similar vibe to Monaco, even though the track doesn't come very close to the area the SCH is planned for.

Its the one thing Durban lacks in the bay really, is lots of pleasure boats like there should be...

i cant believe how naive you guys are ......if the sch does get the go ahead do you really think that someone will buy a r24 million rand yacht ( thats what Foreplay cost ) ? what will he do with the yacht when it leaves its mooring - cruise up to the metroplis of Richards Bay? Last weekend i sailed a 42' sailing boat from richards bay to durban. It was a great sail. But it would have been a crap voyage on a boat like Foreplay. Our sea is too rough and lumpy for cruising motor yachts.

This is why i believe that the focus should be on smaller craft - hobie cats and fishing boats; the like of which are suited to Durban's sea conditions.

A small craft harbour wont do anything to change the fact that the East Coast of South Africa simply isnt for cruising boats. Go ask sailors for their view. The mistake that is being made is that the sailors are being ignored in favor of the property developers and marketing types who have probably never sailed on the ocean off Durban.

Looks like there's a pre-emptive legal attempt to ensure the development is not held up by objections....

---------------------

Durban Waterfront developers seek court order

Date: Tue 08 April 2008

The Durban Point Waterfront developers have applied to the High Court for a declaratory order to ensure there were no legal obstacles and time delays in proceeding with the development.

In particular it wants to ensure that the Durban Paddle Ski Club vacates its premises on 30 June in terms of an eviction notice given in December last year, says a report in The Mercury. But paddle ski club chairman Johnny Vassilaros said he had been expecting the legal action and the club would defend its position.


Full report in today's Mercury (accessible to subscribers)