#Durban Point Redevelopment

[JOSHYNOSHY]

PADDLE FUCKERS

[Xavixav]

Thorough article on the subject, in the April Property Magazine (question to Water Rat: can't the water sports clubs be accommodated further North on the beach?)

Neighbourhood watch
POINT taken?
Words: Anne Schauffer Photography: Sally Chance

When Herman’s Hermits crooned the golden oldie ‘There’s a Kind of Hush,’ they really got the Point, one which aptly describes the present communal holding of breath by those who’ve invested heart, soul and bank accounts into Durban’s Point Waterfront.

With R1-billion worth of property nearing completion in phase one – about 900 units – the eleventh-hour Environmental Impact Assessment objections to the proposal for the Small Craft Harbour and 150-berth yachting marina at Vetch’s Pier have put the brakes on the all-important phase two. More than simply stalling the momentum in terms of sales, development and, well, a real waterfront, it has the potential, say many, to scupper the

original concept. Neels Brink, MD of Metallon Properties and project director for the Durban Point Development Company, says bluntly: ‘Without direct access to the Indian Ocean, the Point project would essentially be no different to a waterfront at Hartbeespoort Dam or the centre of Bloemfontein.’ This certainly doesn’t mean all would be lost – but the bit that would set us apart certainly would be.

So what now? Nothing. It’s a waiting game while the various players debate the finer points.

In the meantime, there’s plenty of earth being moved around the Point Waterfront, and it’s not all mud slinging. The main players want – and are working towards – a practical solution to the impasse. And not only for personal reasons (whether it’s a water-sports club, a development or an investment) – but because we’re within sight of something potentially great for Durban. To put it mildly, the stakes are high.

Eddie Lahee, chairperson for the Point Watersports Club – a body formed specifically to represent the very vocal interests of the Durban Ski Boat Club, Durban Undersea Club and Point Yacht Club – is currently in renegotiation with the Durban Point Development Company to ensure that the clubs which have always enjoyed an existence at the water’s edge are not marginalised or priced out the water. He says: ‘We’re happy to cooperate with the development and want to see it go ahead, but we don’t want to lose the facilities we currently enjoy.’ These clubs – and a fourth, the Durban Paddle Ski Club – have for many years leased the land along the expansive stretch of beachfront, and have been assured of accommodation elsewhere at the Point development.

Frustratingly too, the delay plays into the hands of the average local, giving him the perfect excuse to sigh resignedly at what he perceives to be the same old two-steps-forward-one-step-back dance of Durban.

Key Projects is probably the first and largest developer at the Point, with both the Quays and Quayside already having been transferred into owners’ names. Only two out of 120 units remain unsold.

Greg Cryer, director of Key Developments, is unequivocal in his views about the indispensability of the Small Craft Harbour. ‘The SCH is absolutely critical to the success of the Point Waterfront development. Without it, the development of future top structures will progress at a snail’s pace, because the dream that has been sold is of a world-class, iconic development with features unlikely to be rivaled anywhere else in the world.’

Referring to the concerns raised by the water-sports clubs, he believes: ‘In a small concentrated area, it is possible to accommodate all interested and affected parties who could enjoy all the benefits of a well-managed, secure environment accessible to the public. Where else could a working SCH be found where one could learn to surf, snorkel, scuba-dive, sail, fish, charter sail, motor- or ski-boat?’ He adds: ‘The sense of arrival from the sea

could put Durban into the same league as other major cities around the world which have recognisable iconic structures such as the Sydney bridge in Australia.’

Turning back the clock a decade or so, the driving forces behind the Durban Point Waterfront concept were twofold. Firstly, uShaka Marine World needed a solution to its water reticulation system, hence the waterfront canals which form the spine of the development. Water is drawn directly from the sea, undergoes a filtration process to ensure it’s correctly treated for marine life, and is returned to the sea via the canals.

Secondly, the darkly degenerate Point Road area has long been earmarked by eThekwini municipality’s iTRUMP (Inner Thekwini Regeneration & Urban Management Programme) as ripe for a massive revamp. This initiative would not only rid Point Road of its ‘hell-run’ reputation as an unsafe, unsavoury area but – in terms of the City’s ‘Better Buildings Programme’ – either save or slaughter many of the dysfunctional and/or historically significant buildings in the area.

The result? The evolution of a sensational waterfront as a drawcard for tourists, a vibrant mixed-use environment for those with the wherewithal to work, live and play here, and a space for locals to access a host of sociable amenities a sandcastle away from the beach, ocean, marina and harbour.

In addition, a significant part of the charm of the Point Waterfront development is the juxtaposition of past and present, where listed buildings – such as the gracious 1906 Edwardian Port Supervisors’ houses (sympathetically restored by Michael Shannon and Alan Burke of Blue Plum Developments) – rub shoulders with sumptuous, glamorous high-rises.

Another player in this game is the National Ports Authority, currently effecting the long-discussed harbour widening and deepening project. The port of Durban handles the greatest volume of sea-going traffic of any port in southern Africa, and has embarked on a project of enlarging the entrance channel to enable safer access, as well as access to larger ships. The widened channel will be 220m wide, and a minimum of 16m deep, with work scheduled for completion around 2010.

Since the launch in 2003 of the Durban Point Waterfront, all land in precinct one, including the properties along Point Road owned by the Durban Point Development Company, has been sold. Almost 200 000m² of property have been sold to 14 property developers, with around R1.8-billion having been committed towards investment in the development of infrastructure and building complexes... excluding the initial R735-million cost of uShaka Marine World, and the R150-million loan recently granted to them.

City manager Mike Sutcliffe justifies the outlay of this loan in the following terms: ‘While uShaka did run at a loss for the first few years, this trend is not uncommon when compared with attendance figures of other international marine parks.’

The report is intent on explaining that uShaka should not simply be dismissed as a loss-making entity, as it had played a pivotal role in the regeneration of the Point area. In addition, at the Marine Park, the South African Association for Marine Biological Research (SAAMBR) is a Section 21 company, doesn’t generate profit and relies on uShaka for its funding. Mayor Obed Mlaba points out that while the project had incurred some loss, ‘it was not a money-spinning one but a strategic development initiative.’

The City committed R300-million over a five-year period for upgrading and developing infrastructure in the Point area. Still, there remain concerns about the notorious Point Road region. But, speaking to those who work there, the risks are historical perceptions rather than reality. Not that life is perfect there, but significant strides have been made in cleaning up the area in terms of grime, transforming the access roads, and installing a committed police force to eradicate crime. There is a solid, visible police presence and, in addition, the Durban Point Development Company has employed a private security firm within the precinct and installed an extensive CCTV surveillance system. Horst Keil, developer and converter of the 1932 Durban Point Prison building into a stylish apartment block, Point Bastille, says the Waterfront has had no reported crime and was recently voted safest area in Durban.

One of the general concerns about life at the Point is that, while most of the sites have mixed-use zoning – and developers are encouraged to use the ground floor for retail facilities, entertainment and restaurants opening out on to sidewalks and canals – it’s slow to happen. Aside from the difficulty of generating an interactive social climate in the midst of a gigantic building site, the apartments have primarily been purchased by investors, many intent on holiday letting. That leaves many blocks largely empty, lacking soul. Hopefully this is a temporary scenario, and history suggests most large-scale developments of this nature tend to go through a similar slow start-up stage.

But perhaps more relevant regarding the lack of ambience is the near absence of retail. When it comes to commercial versus residential, nobody has really satisfactorily answered the time-worn question of which is the smarter starting point: chicken or the egg. Keith Wakefield of Wakefields believes that, unlike Cape Town’s V&A Waterfront and other similar developments, Durban’s Point probably began with the residential component because it was launched in the midst of a residential property boom. It is also envisaged that it’ll take another 18 to 24 months before the active-edge restaurants, pubs and shops will come on stream.

Keith firmly believes: ‘If our Waterfront is to be successful, exciting and a catalyst for the regeneration of the city precinct around it, it’s urgent that the shopping element and the active edge be developed as soon as possible.’

Greg is convinced that had the go-ahead been given for the SCH, construction of the proposed shopping centre (40 000m², to lie adjacent to the 9 000m² of uShaka Retail Village Walk) would already have started.

‘The shopping centre would also make sense if the second phase of the residential land had been released to the market with the SCH having being approved.’ To the question of retailers dragging their feet, he feels ‘the retailers also need to be confident that the entire Point development will be a live, work and play space in the future.’

A number of big and boutique hotels are destined for designated sites, but are currently waiting for the light to turn green.

But there is a trickle of entrepreneurs currently integrating themselves into the area, like the popular Beside the Point coffee shop in Albert Terrace, Cargostore home requisites in Point Road, and funky Moyo restaurant at uShaka. These forerunners are targeting the sizeable workforce, apartment purchasers and renters, as well as the tourist market.

How have the investors done? Well, once the Waterfront moved beyond the twinkle-in-the-eye stage, investors were buying off plan at between R1 100 and R1 800 a square metre. Rumour has it that when phase two is given the green light, the figures will rocket to about R35 000 for the same privilege.

Cecily Deetlifs of Tyson Properties says the first apartments sold off plan for R1.4-million for two bedrooms, two bathrooms, two parkings... and one of those is now back on the market for R1.995-million – in an incomplete building.

Do they have views? Bly Scott-Williams of Tyson Properties shakes her head: ‘What’s a view? Most of these apartments have wonderful views, some down the canals, the greenery of the Bluff, and ships coming and going in the harbour. They aren’t all panoramic sea views, but they’re equally charming – and often even more so.’

Amusingly, Bly says the current ‘thumb suck’ when it comes to residential pricing is R1-million a bedroom: one bedroom apartment, one million; two bed, two million, and so on.

The drawcards of living at the Point Waterfront are obvious. Bly enthuses about the safety of swimming at Vetch’s and Addington: ‘Safest bathing areas because of the long continental shelf at Addington.’ A smile: ‘The lifeguards have a tough time staying awake because there’s so little to do. So safe! And,’ she adds, ‘it’s one of the few beaches on which you can walk your dog! Bottom line, everything’s so close to you.’

Ultimately, the public promenade will extend southwards from uShaka – so, says Neels, ‘you’ll be able to walk from one end of the beachfront to the other, all along the Golden Mile – right down to the new North Pier which the National Ports Authority will build as part of the harbour-widening project.’

And for those who prefer not to put their best foot forward, the City will take you for a ride on the new People Mover system. Ten luxury buses run at 15-minute intervals (from 6.30am until 11pm) between Suncoast, the beachfront, uShaka Marine World, West Street and through to the Victoria Market by way of Field Street. A single journey costs R4, and a day pass R15.

Peering into the future, if the various parties allow everybody a slice of that enticing Point pie, Durbanites can look forward to a safe, clean, vibrant environment of homes, businesses, entertainment and retail outlets, complete with the intoxicating sound and smell of the sea. The final investment figure in the area is estimated to round off in the region of R6-billion.

Likewise, if the powers that be manage to achieve their aim of a safe, world-class, well-managed environment, the Point Waterfront has to be one of the prime spots in Durban to build a nest. Or, at least, a nest egg.

The Durban Point Development Company states: ‘Ultimately, the Waterfront initiative is not an attempt to extend the city fabric, nor is it intended to transform the area into an extended theme park or tourist resort. Rather, it will develop as an important, well-defined addition to the city, and become a sought-after place to live, work and play.’

It’s fair to say that Durbanites are hoping against hope that our Waterfront can rise to the slogan emblazoned on our new People Mover buses: the future begins here...

[water rat]

[QUOTE=Xavixav;19518190]Thorough article on the subject, in the April Property Magazine (question to Water Rat: can't the water sports clubs be accommodated further North on the beach?)

sorry no.....nearest spot with similar conditions is Richards Bay - and thats already spoken for.

This legal battle will be intense. And it is really so unnecessary. If Brink and Sutcliffe werent such arrogant bullies, they could bring themselves to see someone elses point of view and learn to negotiate in good faith. Follow the string of correspondence and you will see why the clubs have dug their heels in. With a decent negotiator on the job this conflict situation would never have happened. So all of you who think that the clubs are the bad guys, should really be asking Brink & Sutcliffe a lot of tough questions.......you may just find some answers........think hard guys and it will become clear to you that Brink needs his ass kicked into line before he causes investors to lose even more than they already have.

[666PYC]

lets see how our justice system handles this one. The DPDC are yet to prove that they own the beach and still have the gall to try and evict the Paddleski Club.


Waterfront developers seek court order
April 08, 2008 Edition 1

BRONWYN GERRETSEN

Durban Point Waterfront developers have resorted to legal action to ensure that nothing stands in the way of the next phase of development, especially not the refusal of the Durban Paddle Ski Club to vacate its premises.

The development company yesterday applied to the high court for a declaratory order to ensure there were no legal obstacles and time delays in proceeding with the development. In particular, it wants to ensure that the club vacates its premises by June 30 in terms of an eviction notice given in December last year.

But paddle ski club chairman Johnny Vassilaros said he had been expecting the legal action and the club would defend itself.

Vassilaros said he was not opposed to development of the Point but that the creation of a small-craft harbour on Vetch's Beach, which would unleash a new phase of shopping centres, office blocks and residential developments, was "unacceptable".

Environmental approval for the harbour is still pending, but project director Neels Brink said he was confident approval would be given.

Premature

"We have found it necessary to go this route as we believe that the club will simply refuse to vacate its premises on 30 June. As we cannot allow prolonged court action after this date we have asked the court for a declaratory order to deal with the issues raised by the club," he said.

Any unnecessary delay in the commencement of the construction of the basement for a "super basement or block", which includes the club site, was estimated to cost about R2 million a month, said Brink.

The development company said the club's attorneys, in earlier correspondence, claimed that the notice to terminate its occupation was premature and that there was no reason to commence any eviction until the environmental approval for the harbour had been granted.

The club also contested the development company's right as the city's successor as owners of the land and hence its ability to enforce the lease agreement.

"Should the approval not be forthcoming we will still proceed with redevelopment, albeit along different lines," said Brink.

He said the development company was the legal owner of the land and part of the approach to the courts was to confirm this position.

The company claimed that of the four affected clubs only the paddle ski club had withdrawn from negotiations.

Vassilaros said, however, that after careful consideration and advice, he found the proposal made to the clubs "totally unreasonable and economically non-viable".

"It requires us to raise and service a loan in excess of R20 million to construct a suitable building to accommodate the four existing clubs. With additional costs from municipal rates and levies, membership to such a club, which by law must remain a nonprofit organisation, will be out of the reach of the ordinary citizen," he said.

[666PYC]

“original concept. Neels Brink, MD of Metallon Properties and project director for the Durban Point Development Company, says bluntly: ‘Without direct access to the Indian Ocean, the Point project would essentially be no different to a waterfront at Hartbeespoort Dam or the centre of Bloemfontein.’ This certainly doesn’t mean all would be lost – but the bit that would set us apart certainly would be”

The original concept of the Point redevelopment did not include the SCH. At no point in the conceptualising of the SCH, did Brink or his town planners approach the sailing community, or the existing users of the site to establish a need for the SCH. Access to the sea is pointless as a yacht under motor cannot be manuvered in the canals, this leaves only motorised craft. The average holiday maker renting one of the units will not be able to take there craft to sea as they are not licensed to do so. So who benefits from all this???

If any of you take the time to read the draft EIA the most obvious exclusion is a feasibility study for the SCH. In 2002 Brink presented the SCH to us without any allowance for the existing clubs. When I questioned him about this he replied that our life styles would have to make way for his financial gain. At this time I let him know I was going to become a thorn in his side. The blame for any delays in the development can fall squarely at the feet of Mr brink due to his arrogance or is that ignorance.

You can see the clubs as the bad guys but how would you like it if some developer came out of the blue and informed you that your beloved rugby or golf club was going to be wiped out for his financial gain without any recourse. I have read threads on this site where you where bleating about Sutcliffe’s proposal to move the sharks to the new stadium after 2010. You had the ordacety to complain! The sooner that eye sour is ripped down the better – take that sports fans.

Bly Scott-Williams of Tyson Properties stated The drawcards of living at the Point Waterfront are obvious. Bly enthuses about the safety of swimming at Vetch’s and Addington: ‘Safest bathing areas because of the long continental shelf at Addington.’ A smile: ‘The lifeguards have a tough time staying awake because there’s so little to do. So safe! And,’ she adds, ‘it’s one of the few beaches on which you can walk your dog! Bottom line, everything’s so close to you.’
Is this woman living on another planet, does she not realise these are the very things we are trying to retain while the develop is hell bent on destroying this part of our life style.


Greg Cryer, director of Key Developments, is unequivocal in his views about the indispensability of the Small Craft Harbour. ‘The SCH is absolutely critical to the success of the Point Waterfront development

O Greg, O Greg, O Greg if you honestly believe this you are in the wrong business. I your development cannot stand on its credentials possibly you have not done your homework. Any developer that goes into a development of this nature with his eyes open and than starts to cry fowl play when the EIA does not go his way gets no sympathy from me. Or possibly you all thought kissing up to the right politicians or greasing the correct palms was going to get you what you want welcome to the new South Africa. Greg stay away from any inland developments in your words without a SCH they are doomed to failure.

Ps:
JOSHYNOSHY – Thank god for you, you must be the last of the great intellectuals the world needs more like you

[Sand-Shark]

With a decent negotiator on the job this conflict situation would never have happened. So all of you who think that the clubs are the bad guys, should really be asking Brink & Sutcliffe a lot of tough questions.......you may just find some answers........think hard guys and it will become clear to you that Brink needs his ass kicked into line before he causes investors to lose even more than they already have.

I suppose a "decent negotiator" would be one that agrees to go with your solution?

Now you're concerned about the investors? First it was tidal waves, then the fact that nobody would bring their boats down, and now you're suddenly worried about all those greedy investors.

And a "decent negotiator" is meant to take this seriously?

[Pule]

“original concept. Neels Brink, MD of Metallon Properties and project director for the Durban Point Development Company, says bluntly: ‘Without direct access to the Indian Ocean, the Point project would essentially be no different to a waterfront at Hartbeespoort Dam or the centre of Bloemfontein.’ This certainly doesn’t mean all would be lost – but the bit that would set us apart certainly would be”

The original concept of the Point redevelopment did not include the SCH. At no point in the conceptualising of the SCH, did Brink or his town planners approach the sailing community, or the existing users of the site to establish a need for the SCH. Access to the sea is pointless as a yacht under motor cannot be manuvered in the canals, this leaves only motorised craft. The average holiday maker renting one of the units will not be able to take there craft to sea as they are not licensed to do so. So who benefits from all this???

If any of you take the time to read the draft EIA the most obvious exclusion is a feasibility study for the SCH. In 2002 Brink presented the SCH to us without any allowance for the existing clubs. When I questioned him about this he replied that our life styles would have to make way for his financial gain. At this time I let him know I was going to become a thorn in his side. The blame for any delays in the development can fall squarely at the feet of Mr brink due to his arrogance or is that ignorance.

You can see the clubs as the bad guys but how would you like it if some developer came out of the blue and informed you that your beloved rugby or golf club was going to be wiped out for his financial gain without any recourse. I have read threads on this site where you where bleating about Sutcliffe’s proposal to move the sharks to the new stadium after 2010. You had the ordacety to complain! The sooner that eye sour is ripped down the better – take that sports fans.

Bly Scott-Williams of Tyson Properties stated The drawcards of living at the Point Waterfront are obvious. Bly enthuses about the safety of swimming at Vetch’s and Addington: ‘Safest bathing areas because of the long continental shelf at Addington.’ A smile: ‘The lifeguards have a tough time staying awake because there’s so little to do. So safe! And,’ she adds, ‘it’s one of the few beaches on which you can walk your dog! Bottom line, everything’s so close to you.’
Is this woman living on another planet, does she not realise these are the very things we are trying to retain while the develop is hell bent on destroying this part of our life style.


Greg Cryer, director of Key Developments, is unequivocal in his views about the indispensability of the Small Craft Harbour. ‘The SCH is absolutely critical to the success of the Point Waterfront development

O Greg, O Greg, O Greg if you honestly believe this you are in the wrong business. I your development cannot stand on its credentials possibly you have not done your homework. Any developer that goes into a development of this nature with his eyes open and than starts to cry fowl play when the EIA does not go his way gets no sympathy from me. Or possibly you all thought kissing up to the right politicians or greasing the correct palms was going to get you what you want welcome to the new South Africa. Greg stay away from any inland developments in your words without a SCH they are doomed to failure.

Ps:
JOSHYNOSHY – Thank god for you, you must be the last of the great intellectuals the world needs more like you


666 from all I have read from you and water-rat, it seems like your problem is the consultation by the developer. If that's the case, what do you think will be a point of compromise from the both parties?

[Xavixav]

Question to understand what's at stake here: is the proposed small crafts harbour just about small crafts (in this case, why don't they just put them in the existing canals with an access to the sea, as it is the case in many marinas around the world), or is there more to it?

[666PYC]

666 from all I have read from you and water-rat, it seems like your problem is the consultation by the developer. If that's the case, what do you think will be a point of compromise from the both parties?

Pule what compromise do you suggest we make to satisfy the aspirations of the council and the developer, or are you suggesting that the developer has cart blanch to do as he wishes without consultation or compromise. Don’t forget we have leased that land from the council for the last 50years we are not the new kids on the block, and the council has a social responsibility towards its rate payers.

[Pule]

Pule what compromise do you suggest we make to satisfy the aspirations of the council and the developer, or are you suggesting that the developer has cart blanch to do as he wishes without consultation or compromise. Don’t forget we have leased that land from the council for the last 50years we are not the new kids on the block, and the council has a social responsibility towards its rate payers.


You not answering my question, may be I need to say it in simpler. What action need to be taken by you guys and the developers to have SCH going through? I'm asking this question because it seems like your problem is the fact that the developer decided to do things on his own without conculting you as you guys have said. Do you want to see SCH happening? What do you think is the obstacle?

[Durbsboi]

It all depends on the EIA for now Pule, but as Brink said he is confident that it will go through. So once that is through the only thing that can stop them is a court order from the paddlers

[Pule]

It all depends on the EIA for now Pule, but as Brink said he is confident that it will go through. So once that is through the only thing that can stop them is a court order from the paddlers

I do understand about the EIA DB, but its seems like this guys will even fight even if it goes the developers way.

[666PYC]

You not answering my question, may be I need to say it in simpler. What action need to be taken by you guys and the developers to have SCH going through? I'm asking this question because it seems like your problem is the fact that the developer decided to do things on his own without conculting you as you guys have said. Do you want to see SCH happening? What do you think is the obstacle?

Engaging the stake holders right at the beginning would have been the smartest move the developer could have made. I submitted a win win proposal to the developer, this was rejected as it had not come from there desk. We have on numerous occasions engaged with the developer at the public meetings where we have voiced our fears and solutions. At each meeting the developer’s solution is a slap in the face. I was asked to contact Alan Wijnberg the harbour engineer to come up with a compromise solution. We came up with a solution that would be acceptable compromise solution. At the last public meeting the developer unveiled a new proposal that is unacceptable to us. All along we have had to deal with these under hand tactics. The developer is not dealing with a group of hick fisherman, we are all Engineers, Architects, Quantity surveyors and professional people in ther own fields. Our input is as intellectually relevant as anything produce by the developer. You engage with local people with intimate knowledge of an area not alienate them as was the case at the point. Dr wijnberg admitted to me he had no expertise in the requirements needed to operate small craft. This is the adviser to the developer! This is why I was asked to give him a hand. You may slate jeer at Water rat and my self but our knowledge of the issues is hands on not gossip and hearsay.

Do we want to see a SCH yes but not there. The inner harbour is a more acceptable alternative than Vetches. My proposal included a hotel site and a residential component on an iconic palm fringed lagoon retaining all the existing interest groups. The SCH was situated in the South West corner of the Point precinct with access to the sea harbour and the canals. I brink was not so arrogant we could all have been patting each other on the back instead of butting heads – spilt milk. My option came out of the fears of the public and the developers from the first scoping report, this is what Brinks planners where suppose to do.

The biggest obstacle for the developer is legal. As much as you all want it to happen it cannot as the land does not belong to the city or the ports authority, it belongs to the citizens of South Africa. If the EIA does go the developer’s way it will most likely end up in the constitutional court.

[Pule]

Thank for the explanation, I wish we could hear the developer's comments on that. It seems like a complicated issue of which involves costs and it's definately a long process. As a Joburger I'm not that familiar with the harbour, if possibble please post the diagram or the deisgn of the solution that you presented to them the last time.

[Luf]

666PYC.. Thank you for your explanation. Though i am all for the SCH i do believe your voices should be heard and that you guys form a huge part of what the SCH is about.

I am also very intrested in your diagram/proposal.
Another thing: You proposed that the SCH be in the Harbour itself ( i think i know where and what you are talking about). What was the response from the developers regarding this? Why did they say that this would no work for them?

Thanks mate.

[water rat]

I suppose a "decent negotiator" would be one that agrees to go with your solution?

Now you're concerned about the investors? First it was tidal waves, then the fact that nobody would bring their boats down, and now you're suddenly worried about all those greedy investors.

And a "decent negotiator" is meant to take this seriously?

Sandy i think i have stated in previous posts that i am not anti the Point Redevelopment. Anything above the high water mark is not under criticism. I am therefore concerned that the developments ABOVE THE HW MARK maybe compromised by the delays caused by the sch dispute. My point is that if the sch is scrapped the development can forge ahead and get completed.

[adamandre]

There are a few scenarios at play here.

1. Now that the termination of the lease of the yacht club is imminent, they are questioning the legality of who owns the land. The yacht club had no problem signing the lease with the municipality whom for the duration of the lease were recognized by the yacht club as the lawful owners. Now conveniently they protest. In line with that thinking, it then follows that the yacht club illegally occupied premises as according to them the council with whom they signed a lease was never the owner.

2. To continue with the reasoning of the yacht club, if the premises they currently occupy belongs to the citizens of Durban or some other entity other than the council, it must be decided by them what the area is to be used for. Until then according to the prevailing logic the premises must be vacated as it belongs to all durbanites. So I guess anybody can park or use anything in that area as it belongs to everyone.

3. The EIA is a totally different issue from the termination of lease. I gather that the yacht clubs are not fighting the termination of the lease as this would be ludicrous since in their logic the people of Durban or the rightful owner, not the council must decide what to do with the area. They may not want clubs there. Until then they would be contradicting themselves if they decide that it must be used for their purposes. The majority of Durbanites may want something else. However, raising objections to the EIA of the SCH is a totally different story which is understandable.

4. The courts may look at the merits of environmental issues but will scorn at the right to have club premises on property that may belong to the public since the public must decide. Ultimately why not leave it open bare sand with no club. If u want to park your boat find a premises outside the area.

5. Economic benefit – raising environmental issues is totally different and understandable, but to say that the clubs at the point contribute to the Gross domestic product of Durban is a joke. It is only development (however being environmentally sound) that will contribute to job creation, decrease in crime and rejuvenate the city as a whole. I cannot see yacht clubs doing that. etc.

6. Why is there an actual need to have premises. If you choose not to have your boat in the proposed SCH then u must travel with it from home. At the VA waterfront there are no freebie premises. The premises seems more for social purposes. I don’t think the courts will look favourably on the point yacht clubs for them not to be vacated irrespective of whether the SCH is approved or not. That is a totally separate issue.

7. Finally if the council is the rightful owner then there is no dispute. The yacht clubs have to leave. By engaging in discussion with the yacht clubs to even allow them premises I think is very big on the part of the DPDC. Excuse my lack of knowledge because I cannot understand the need to have premises. If its for club meetings and socializing then why is there a need to specifically have it at a premises at the point. This is premium property. The dpdc is not stopping you from launching and now have offered u premium property. As far as I am concerned that should never have happened as at the VA waterfront u pay and u park your boat in the marina, else u bring it from another storage space but certainly no freebie club houses. There is nothing to compromise on. U can launch as normal – whats the need for premises? And who r u to decide for the people of durban that the place must be used for a clubhouse. The dpdc has compromised. U will be allowed to launch and they have unwittingly offered u premises be it at a premium.

[water rat]

hi Adamandre - see my responses para by para :

1. Now that the termination of the lease of the yacht club is imminent, they are questioning the legality of who owns the land. The yacht club had no problem signing the lease with the municipality whom for the duration of the lease were recognized by the yacht club as the lawful owners. Now conveniently they protest. In line with that thinking, it then follows that the yacht club illegally occupied premises as according to them the council with whom they signed a lease was never the owner.


( The Municipality has a social responsibility to provide the public with space to build sporting clubs. This is the same for gold, soccer, rugby, cricket,tennis ect. The land currently occupied by the clubs is therefore legally occupied in line with the laws of the land).
2. To continue with the reasoning of the yacht club, if the premises they currently occupy belongs to the citizens of Durban or some other entity other than the council, it must be decided by them what the area is to be used for. Until then according to the prevailing logic the premises must be vacated as it belongs to all durbanites. So I guess anybody can park or use anything in that area as it belongs to everyone.

( The citizens of Durban have not been asked to vote on whether or not they want the Council to spend their rates on building a small craft harbor at Vetch's. The Social Impact Study, which forms part of the EIR, clearly states that the majority of citizens - not club members - want Vetch's beach to remain undeveloped. And remember that that Vetch's beach is open to the public 24/7. Any insinuation that the clubs block the public's access to the beach is bullshit. Go down to the PYC and you will even be allowed to buy a meal/drink/use the toilets ect without being a member ).


3. The EIA is a totally different issue from the termination of lease. I gather that the yacht clubs are not fighting the termination of the lease as this would be ludicrous since in their logic the people of Durban or the rightful owner, not the council must decide what to do with the area. They may not want clubs there. Until then they would be contradicting themselves if they decide that it must be used for their purposes. The majority of Durbanites may want something else. However, raising objections to the EIA of the SCH is a totally different story which is understandable.

( If the council doesn’t want the clubs there they are obliged to relocate them to a site which provides similar features. If Vetch's Beach is turned into a SCH Hobie Cat sailing / windsurfing / Crocker paddleskiing will be impossible. Where do you propose that they relocate to ? )
4. The courts may look at the merits of environmental issues but will scorn at the right to have club premises on property that may belong to the public since the public must decide. Ultimately why not leave it open bare sand with no club. If u want to park your boat find a premises outside the area.

( Good idea - then we can still launch off the beach. The courts will need to take into account the provisions of the Integrated Coastal Management Bill. This may lead them to scorn the DPDC's desire to cover the beach in concrete rather than the clubs' arguments ).
5. Economic benefit – raising environmental issues is totally different and understandable, but to say that the clubs at the point contribute to the Gross domestic product of Durban is a joke. It is only development (however being environmentally sound) that will contribute to job creation, decrease in crime and rejuvenate the city as a whole. I cannot see yacht clubs doing that. etc.

( see the Financial Impact study of the EIR. The contribution is clear for all to see - unless of course the EIR is a 'joke'. )
6. Why is there an actual need to have premises. If you choose not to have your boat in the proposed SCH then u must travel with it from home. At the VA waterfront there are no freebie premises. The premises seems more for social purposes. I don’t think the courts will look favourably on the point yacht clubs for them not to be vacated irrespective of whether the SCH is approved or not. That is a totally separate issue.

( see response to paras 1 & 3 ).

7. Finally if the council is the rightful owner then there is no dispute. The yacht clubs have to leave. By engaging in discussion with the yacht clubs to even allow them premises I think is very big on the part of the DPDC. Excuse my lack of knowledge because I cannot understand the need to have premises. If its for club meetings and socializing then why is there a need to specifically have it at a premises at the point. This is premium property. The dpdc is not stopping you from launching and now have offered u premium property. As far as I am concerned that should never have happened as at the VA waterfront u pay and u park your boat in the marina, else u bring it from another storage space but certainly no freebie club houses. There is nothing to compromise on. U can launch as normal – whats the need for premises? And who r u to decide for the people of durban that the place must be used for a clubhouse. The dpdc has compromised. U will be allowed to launch and they hav!
e unwittingly offered u premises be it at a premium.

( you cannot compare the proposed sch at Vetch's with the V&A. The V&A was a deserted part of the commercial port of Cape Town. No recreational activity took place in the V&A prior to it being redeveloped. What would the playing public want with a deserted tank farm / empty warehouses / old and vacant buildings?

The V&A was therefore developed around what was previously part of a commercial port - not a public space with a public beach ).

[666PYC]

Adamandre where have you had your head berried over the last 5 years???

There are a few scenarios at play here.

1. Now that the termination of the lease of the yacht club is imminent, they are questioning the legality of who owns the land. The yacht club had no problem signing the lease with the municipality whom for the duration of the lease were recognized by the yacht club as the lawful owners. Now conveniently they protest. In line with that thinking, it then follows that the yacht club illegally occupied premises as according to them the council with whom they signed a lease was never the owner.
1. Adamandre In you short sited hatred of everything nautical you have completely mist the point. Now I need you to read this slowly and try to comprehend what is being explained to you.
1.There is no dispute as to who owns the land occupied by the Yacht club this land belongs to 2.The DPDC – right did you get that.
3.The Yacht club has a legitimate lease over the land they occupy – got that
4.The land we are questioning the ownership of is the land below the high water mark – do you understand this or do you need further explanation

2. To continue with the reasoning of the yacht club, if the premises they currently occupy belongs to the citizens of Durban or some other entity other than the council, it must be decided by them what the area is to be used for. Until then according to the prevailing logic the premises must be vacated as it belongs to all durbanites. So I guess anybody can park or use anything in that area as it belongs to everyone.
2. The land the club buildings are occupying dose not belong to the citizens of Durban (see comment above). The land did belong to the city of Durban but was purchased by numerous parties over the years, I don’t feel like going into all this you can do the research. The point is the buildings on the land legally belong to the members of the clubs in question, on land legally leased from the land owners ad as such have legal rights over the land while the lease is in place – this may piss you off but it is the law.

3. The EIA is a totally different issue from the termination of lease. I gather that the yacht clubs are not fighting the termination of the lease as this would be ludicrous since in their logic the people of Durban or the rightful owner, not the council must decide what to do with the area. They may not want clubs there. Until then they would be contradicting themselves if they decide that it must be used for their purposes. The majority of Durbanites may want something else. However, raising objections to the EIA of the SCH is a totally different story which is understandable.
3. Yes you are correct the EIA and the lease issue are separate. An agreement is in place with the landowners as to where and when we move the clubs. The argument between the clubs and the city council is how was it allowed that a valuable asset such as the beach and the clubs that provide a recreational service to the community be done away with for nothing more than financial gain for a handful of people who after making there money leave the area to go and destroy someone else’s life style.

4. The courts may look at the merits of environmental issues but will scorn at the right to have club premises on property that may belong to the public since the public must decide. Ultimately why not leave it open bare sand with no club. If u want to park your boat find a premises outside the area.
4.You really are showing you ignorance – THE CLUBS ARE NOT OCCUPYING PUBLIC GROUND! The boats are parked legally on ground leased from the landowners. I suggest you go and get a court order to have us removed and give us the opportunity to laugh you out of town.


5. Economic benefit – raising environmental issues is totally different and understandable, but to say that the clubs at the point contribute to the Gross domestic product of Durban is a joke. It is only development (however being environmentally sound) that will contribute to job creation, decrease in crime and rejuvenate the city as a whole. I cannot see yacht clubs doing that. etc.

5. You sound the type of obese slob that be-leaves that recreation and stress relief is to site in front of the TV stuffing his face with slupp chips while watching some mindless rugby match or golf tournament. Enlighten me you tower of intellect, what is it you presume is going to be put in your iconic SCH and who do you presume owns those craft?? I suggest you get a copy of the scoping report and read the economic benefits of the clubs in the area you will be amazed.

6. Why is there an actual need to have premises. If you choose not to have your boat in the proposed SCH then u must travel with it from home. At the VA waterfront there are no freebie premises. The premises seems more for social purposes. I don’t think the courts will look favourably on the point yacht clubs for them not to be vacated irrespective of whether the SCH is approved or not. That is a totally separate issue.

6. With every comment you slide further down the food chain. We are a club! You area obviously not a member of a club or you would never have made this embarrassing remark. A club is palace where people with a common interest gather to participate in there chosen activity, socialise and network ie a golf club. This is a world so far from your pathetic existence that I see no need to continue.

7. Finally if the council is the rightful owner then there is no dispute. The yacht clubs have to leave. By engaging in discussion with the yacht clubs to even allow them premises I think is very big on the part of the DPDC. Excuse my lack of knowledge because I cannot understand the need to have premises. If its for club meetings and socializing then why is there a need to specifically have it at a premises at the point. This is premium property. The dpdc is not stopping you from launching and now have offered u premium property. As far as I am concerned that should never have happened as at the VA waterfront u pay and u park your boat in the marina, else u bring it from another storage space but certainly no freebie club houses. There is nothing to compromise on. U can launch as normal – whats the need for premises? And who r u to decide for the people of durban that the place must be used for a clubhouse. The dpdc has compromised. U will be allowed to launch and they have unwittingly offered u premises be it at a premium.
7. You can pride you self on being on of the most ignorant individuals to have ever contributed to this site. You have the IQ of a small dog. I have so much to say on the subject, of boat ownership, licensing, mooring and club membership requirements but I just could not be bothered – You go back to you small mind numbing existence wherever that may be.

[Luf]

@666PYC, you are an idiot, arrogant and only out for your own gain.'

@Water rat, thanks for your reply, always a pleasure reading your posts (even though i might not always agree:))

[GregPz]

Mmm...I hope 666PYC is not your "decent negotiator"!!!

[GregPz]

...

[glyn_j]

ha ha, i love reading this thread!

[NORMAN F]

The Heritage Square four star hotel embracing the traditional architecture and character of the past with a modern boutique hotel interior will be managed by the Three Cities Group. This concept offers the serious investor the opportunity to secure a profitable foot hold in this exciting up market location both from an income and capital appreciation point of view.

Its prime location, Durban Point Waterfront within secure walking distance of eShaka and South Africa’s safest bathing beaches. Will establish The Heritage as the accommodation of choice for all visitors to Durban be they tourists or delegates to Durban’s busy International Conference Centre.

The fact that it will be the first established hotel in the area will certainly be an advantage; completion is scheduled for the latter part of 2009.The guaranteed return of 8% in the first year and the 2010 world cup in the second year will make a mockery of the projected occupancy percentages.

The link below will give you full details

http://www.heritagesquare.co.za

[NORMAN F]

The negative people who think that because they make a lot of noise there issues have value, this is not the case

I was disgusted with there performance at the last public meeting, they come up with a lot of mis-information, they cannot see because of their narrow vision what a great opportunity they have been offered.

The new Joint Watersports Club is destined to be the most viable club in Durban, do not be supprised when there is a wait list for membership.

New developments like The Heritage hotel due to start in the next three months will do a lot to bring confidence back into this prime development area

The Heritage Square four star hotel embracing the traditional architecture and character of the past with a modern boutique hotel interior will be managed by the Three Cities Group. This concept offers the serious investor the opportunity to secure a profitable foot hold in this exciting up market location both from an income and capital appreciation point of view.

Its prime location, Durban Point Waterfront within secure walking distance of eShaka and South Africa’s safest bathing beaches. Will establish The Heritage as the accommodation of choice for all visitors to Durban be they tourists or delegates to Durban’s busy International Conference Centre.

The fact that it will be the first established hotel in the area will certainly be an advantage; completion is scheduled for the latter part of 2009.The guaranteed return of 8% in the first year and the 2010 world cup in the second year will make a mockery of the projected occupancy percentages.

The link below will give you full details

http://www.heritagesquare.co.za

[dysan1]

666PYC - As you will see in the mail i sent to you, please refrain from personal attacks as it does very little to strengthen your argument. A desparate man reaches for such tools.

We all have varied views on this development and rightfully so. We all percieve its benefits in different ways and see it from different perspectives. Which is a good thing. However at the end of the day the decision for the greater good needs to be made. To constantly state that your way is the only way is as bad as if there was no dialogue between the city and the clubs.

[Durbsboi]

We all trying to gather what really is going on here (i.e the SCH situation, not this thread) but we can only sit & wait for the outcome because it ultimitly have no impact by us name calling each other here. So 666 I suggest you cut the shit & stick to the topic.

[water rat]

666PYC.. Thank you for your explanation. Though i am all for the SCH i do believe your voices should be heard and that you guys form a huge part of what the SCH is about.

I am also very intrested in your diagram/proposal.
Another thing: You proposed that the SCH be in the Harbour itself ( i think i know where and what you are talking about). What was the response from the developers regarding this? Why did they say that this would no work for them?

Thanks mate.

hi Luf and Pule

The port does not want to consider the inport option because they are planning to build the new passenger terminal in this area.Dysan has also mentioned that a new conference centre is being considered for the area.

I have posted a pic of the proposed inport site on the following blog :http://ratty01.blogspot.com

[dysan1]

^^ also the inport option has been completely ruled out by transnet as this area is needed more for shipping related activities. if they had their way they would close the yacht clubs that are already in the port

[Luf]

^^
Yeah i am sure they really need that area.
Surely from a security standpoint, having a yacht club in such an important harbour poses many security problems.. drugs, threat of terrorism etc. Just a thought.

Thanks Ratty/dysan for the explinations

[water rat]

^^ also the inport option has been completely ruled out by transnet as this area is needed more for shipping related activities. if they had their way they would close the yacht clubs that are already in the port

Yeah but they wont. Imagine the outcry if they did try something this drastic? Between the Durban Marina, Wilsons Wharf and Bluff Yacht clubs there must be nearly 700 boats moored.However the latest plan for the SCH ( Option S ) has only 110 moorings for 'small craft'.

If you read the minutes ( page 12 ) of the last public meeting, held in september last year,Pravin Amar Singh stated that :

“The SCH is not designed to be a yacht harbor; it is strictly for small crafts”.

Dysan you are brighter than i am with technology - can i post the minutes? if not i can email them to you if you would like to see them.

If the NPA does try and ban sailing craft from the harbor where will they go ? It is therefore absolutely clear that the SCH will not replace the current moorings inside the harbor.

So back to the drawing board .......

[Luf]

Ratty, is there talk of banning yachts from from the Port? Jeez that would be hectic if they do.

Would be really interesting to see those minutes mate, thanks!

[water rat]

Ratty, is there talk of banning yachts from from the Port? Jeez that would be hectic if they do.

Would be really interesting to see those minutes mate, thanks!

hi Luf - the following letter may give you some perspective about why the NPA will never ban all boats from the port. they have temporarily banned fishing but will reinstate the right soon, albeit under more controlled conditions.

Just imagine the international outcry of Africa's busiest port bans yachting?

letter reads as follows:

Port fishing ban is a cop-out
April 01, 2008 Edition 1


In the process of banning all boat fishing in the harbour Transnet is conveniently using harbour regulations to shirk its social responsibility.

Transnet's responsibility is to ensure that the port is both a commercial environment and a recreational area for the public.

Social responsibility requires a certain amount of effort and it is well-known and sufficiently documented.

Examples are:


The mangrove heritage site. This came about as a result of public protest at the way Transnet was destroying the ecology;


Cancellation of building a container terminal on the sandbanks. Cancelled because it would interfere with fish breeding grounds;


The very cordial relationship established between successive port officials and the recreational clubs;


This relationship ensured a well regulated environment in which both the commercial and the recreational interests were served.

Based on this long history, it is safe to say that the present day management are not prepared to make that extra bit of effort that is needed to ensure that they deliver on their social responsibility.

It is now up to us, the public, to ensure that they see the error of their ways.

R van der Krol

Executive Manager, Marine Services, Transnet (retired)

[water rat]

^^ also the inport option has been completely ruled out by transnet as this area is needed more for shipping related activities. if they had their way they would close the yacht clubs that are already in the port

Something else to consider is that, if the port bans yachts from the port and closes down Durban Marina and Wilsons Wharf, what will happen to the redevelopment of the Victoria Embankment? There is no successful waterfront anywhere on this planet that doesnt have boats as a focal attraction. And the beauty of it is that the yachts are provided as free 'eye candy' to the residents and public free of charge. If the powers that be put 2 and 2 together and get several, they should be encouraging yachting, not trying to kill it.

[NORMAN F]

Good to see that there are people positive about the Point The general negativity has not done it much good. I believe that the main three clubs have or are prepaired to sign the contract to combine and move to the site offered. It is a good time to join one of these Clubs at a low joining fee as I personally think that in a few years membership will be wait listed.

The talk about Point Road being bad is nonsence.
I drove down Park Street to Albert Park yesterday this was another experiance It was alive with people trading everyware, loud music and the smells of food. This was a true African experiance even if slightly scarey, good to see that the Old House Museum is still in existance

[water rat]

Something else to consider is that, if the port bans yachts from the port and closes down Durban Marina and Wilsons Wharf, what will happen to the redevelopment of the Victoria Embankment? There is no successful waterfront anywhere on this planet that doesnt have boats as a focal attraction. And the beauty of it is that the yachts are provided as free 'eye candy' to the residents and public free of charge. If the powers that be put 2 and 2 together and get several, they should be encouraging yachting, not trying to kill it.

seen on The Quays website (www.quays.co.za ).

Durban has three marinas for yachting purposes - the main marina opposite the Esplanade, served by the Point Yacht Club and Royal Natal Yacht Club, the Wilson's Wharf marina, used predominantly by motor craft, and the Bluff Yacht Club facility in the Silt Canal near Bayhead. The Point Yacht Club and Royal Natal Yacht Club give visiting yachts one week free membership during their stay. Both Clubs have good facilities, are very friendly to overseas guests and the security at the dock is first class. There is fresh water, but no electricity on the dock.

So lets consider the following scenario :

SaBoy finds that the Cape climate is too cold. After yet another family mutiny, a day on the water is cancelled. Only the seals and penguins that frequent the freezing Cape waters are seen out at sea. Humans huddle sensibly behind closed doors and open a bottle of the Cape's finest red.SaBoy realizes that Durban is a better spot for boating and thinks about buying an appartment at the Point. Only thing is the SCH is too small for his yacht. So he looks to the big marina to berth his pride and joy. But damn; the marina has been closed! Better buy the wife and kids some thermal gear and keep the boat in the Cape where the marinas can accomodate yachts and no just 'small craft'.

Closing scene - SaBoy sighing and final words - "wow that was close; would have dropped a packet if i hadnt listened to Ratty". He may be a pesky rodent to the likes of Sutcliffe and Co, but he knows his shit when it comes to boats......

[NORMAN F]

The contract required for the joint clubs to secure the site alongside the new North Pier includes a clause that all visiting Yachts and there crew will have full use of the clubs facilities during there stay, naturally subject the abiding to all club rules and regulations.Membership is also to be offered to all persons owning property in the Point Precient. The latter will be a great asset to the clubs financial turnover.

I have been lead to believe that larger yachts can be accomodated in the SCH. The moorings in the extention of the canals south of The Quays & Quayside would be restricted to smaller craft with draft up to 1.5m

The yacht I sail on occasionaly a Fast 42 would not be able to moore in the canals

[water rat]

The contract required for the joint clubs to secure the site alongside the new North Pier includes a clause that all visiting Yachts and there crew will have full use of the clubs facilities during there stay, naturally subject the abiding to all club rules and regulations.Membership is also to be offered to all persons owning property in the Point Precient. The latter will be a great asset to the clubs financial turnover.

I have been lead to believe that larger yachts can be accomodated in the SCH. The moorings in the extention of the canals south of The Quays & Quayside would be restricted to smaller craft with draft up to 1.5m

The yacht I sail on occasionaly a Fast 42 would not be able to moore in the canals

is a Fast 42 a 'yacht' or a 'small craft' by the designers of the SCH ?

[water rat]

is a Fast 42 a 'yacht' or a 'small craft' by the designers of the SCH ?

maybe my math is faulty....however please consider the following: if there are only 110 moorings available, how many will be kept free to accomodate visiting yacts?

I can tell you that, in recent times, international yachts ( and passenger ships ) are favouring Richards Bay. At this rate the Port of Durban will become known by international visitors ( tourists ) as an exclusively industrial zone which does not welcome any vessels if there arent carrying cargo. Do yourself a favor and speak to one of the crew on a visting boat and see what they say ......Durban doesnt feature favorably now; imagine how kak it will be when the yachts are restricted to the SCH?

Another anomoly in the system is that, in order for the SCH to meet the environmental requirements it will not have any bunkering ( refueling ) facilities.

And what happens when a yacht needs to be hauled out for repairs / a bottom clean / new anti fouling ect. As this wont be allowed in the sch they will have to go to Richards Bay. So why come to Durban in the first place!???

You tell me what Yacht's Captain/ Owner will bring a yacht to a port where it will not be allowed to take on fuel or do repairs?

again - back to the drawing board.......

[water rat]

if a big boat ( big by virtue of the fact that 19 people were on board ) cant handle our seas, how is a 'small craft' handled by a tourist going to handle the rough conditions we expereince on the coast of Soth Africa.......

the modernism "go figure" springs to mind....


Tourists die as shark-cage boat capsizes
13/04/2008 15:40 - (SA)

3 die on whale-watching trip

Two men from the United States and one from Norway died when the boat they were in capsized near Gansbaai on Sunday, a shark diving company said.

Chairperson of the Great White Shark Protection Foundation, Mariette Hopley, said the shark-cage diving boat had anchored just before a freak wave capsized the boat around 10:00 on Sunday.

The boat's crew had not started shark-cage diving when the wave struck.

Ten people on board were clients of Great White Shark Projects.

The other nine people were crew and staff members.

Other boats in the area went to help the stricken people.

One of the people swept off the boat was caught underneath the boat and had to be retrieved by divers.

The divers took the man to the mainland where paramedics managed to get a faint pulse, but were unable to revive him. He was certified dead.

The other two men were found drowned at sea and their bodies were retrieved.

The rest of the people on board were in a stable condition.

They were taken for X-rays to determine if they had internal injuries, Hopley said.

[Durbsboi]

Firstly thats Gansbaai, a good 1300 or so km's from Durban, secondly they say in the article. its was a "freek wave" which means its not common. So shit happens at times, I dont see how 1 incident can affect something big like this.

[water rat]

Firstly thats Gansbaai, a good 1300 or so km's from Durban, secondly they say in the article. its was a "freek wave" which means its not common. So shit happens at times, I dont see how 1 incident can affect something big like this.

True.....but it is a given that conditions on our entire coast are mostly too rough for small craft ......

what do you think of the numbers? ie:

SCH planned no of moorings = 110.
Currently moored in Durban = 700 ( ish )

[dysan1]

gees bugger you really have WAY too much time on your hands that you talk about in circles. we know the main marina's will not be closing, i was only saying that if the NPA got their way they would.

Secondly, with the new planned marina's in port shepstone, hibberdene, salt rock and tugela, there may well be many future day stops for vessels along the KZN coast.

[water rat]

gees bugger you really have WAY too much time on your hands that you talk about in circles. we know the main marina's will not be closing, i was only saying that if the NPA got their way they would.

Secondly, with the new planned marina's in port shepstone, hibberdene, salt rock and tugela, there may well be many future day stops for vessels along the KZN coast.

Dood, let me manage my time ......if you dont have time to read and digest posts then dont respond ......

Port Shepstone,Salt Rock and Tugela wont happen in our lifetimes.......progress with Hibberdene seems to have stalled ....

[Luf]

@Water rat, thanks very much for emailing me the minutes. Was an interesting read but it seems like there wasnt much tension there and everything was balanced (Might be wrong however). I just cant understand why the release of more info is taking so long!(sorry i am very impatient when it comes to development:) , i want things done yesterday:))

Water rat, if you dont mind me asking, what club do you belong to/represent at the point? PYC?

[water rat]

@Water rat, thanks very much for emailing me the minutes. Was an interesting read but it seems like there wasnt much tension there and everything was balanced (Might be wrong however). I just cant understand why the release of more info is taking so long!(sorry i am very impatient when it comes to development:) , i want things done yesterday:))

Water rat, if you dont mind me asking, what club do you belong to/represent at the point? PYC?

hi Luf

although i have quoted from them, the minutues are not a true reflection of the meeting.

in my capacity as The Water Rat i dont represent any club.

[666PYC]

gees bugger you really have WAY too much time on your hands that you talk about in circles. we know the main marina's will not be closing, i was only saying that if the NPA got their way they would.

Secondly, with the new planned marina's in port shepstone, hibberdene, salt rock and tugela, there may well be many future day stops for vessels along the KZN coast.


Hibberdene and Port Shepston are not options for marinas accepting yachts due to the rail and road bridges just back from the beach. Now before you bight my head off for not seeing the world through your eyes I am not saying these are not acceptable sites for marinas as port Shepston was a fishing harbour once. They are just not acceptable for sailing craft. Salt rock is just not a logical site for any kind of marina end of story. Tugela mouth has massive silting issues and is totally unsuitable in flood conditions

[dysan1]

^^ so why on earth are these being thoroughly investigated by people?

[Luf]

"in my capacity as The Water Rat i dont represent any club."

fair enough, thanks mate.

[666PYC]

^^ so why on earth are these being thoroughly investigated by people?

Possibly as ski boat harbors? The draught required and mast height just counts these sites out for sailing craft.

[water rat]

^^ so why on earth are these being thoroughly investigated by people?

read a book titled "Nil Desperandum" to learn more about the old port.
Port Shepstone used to handle cargo ships. However the cost of keeping the mouth dredged killed it.The book is a facinating account which deals with :

The building of the original Vetch's Pier / settlement of Richmond / the building of the port at Port Shepstone. Bayzley Beach is named after the engineer.

Until recent times you could still see bollards on the quay on the south bank of the river.

[666PYC]

read a book titled "Nil Desperandum" to learn more about the old port.
Port Shepstone used to handle cargo ships. However the cost of keeping the mouth dredged killed it.The book is a facinating account which deals with :

The building of the original Vetch's Pier / settlement of Richmond / the building of the port at Port Shepstone. Bayzley Beach is named after the engineer.

Until recent times you could still see bollards on the quay on the south bank of the river.

Hi water rat if you could let me know who printed this book I would love to get a copy. I’m going to try to load two images from google earth clearly showing the old warf at Port Shepston. The second shows the proximity of the rail bridge to the beach at Hibberdene.... (Lol ok so that didn’t work)

[water rat]

Hi water rat if you could let me know who printed this book I would love to get a copy. I’m going to try to load two images from google earth clearly showing the old warf at Port Shepston. The second shows the proximity of the rail bridge to the beach at Hibberdene.... (Lol ok so that didn’t work)

try Adams or Great Books at Gateway :

Great Books
Gateway Shopping Centre, Umhlanga, KZN
+ 27 31 566 2762
cell: 083 321 7872
fax: 086 688 2786 (South Africa only)
books@abcbook.co.za
www.abcbook.co.za


Paperback: 159 pages
Publisher: Covos Day Books,South Africa (29 Sep 2001)
Language English
ISBN-10: 062026358X
ISBN-13: 978-0620263580

[666PYC]

Thanks for this water rat I really enjoy this kind of book. cheers

[Durbsboi]

From pixmanimages.com May 2008

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[ToxicBunny]

I still want to know whats going to happen with that water treatment plant... makes no sense to widen the harbour but still have that thing jutting out into the new widened mouth.

[Luf]

Great pics mate thanks.. Looks to me like the treatment plant will close, makes sense, how can you have a apartments/shops/commerce looking onto a water treatment plant -apart from that the harbour needs to be widened.

I was at the point over the weekend, like a fool left my camera at home.
Things look really really quiet around there - Dolphin whispers has been stripped and is just standing there. Heritage Square has not started despite them saying it was going to start in April. No shops have opened. A little bit sad i must admit. What you guys think?

One thing that has improved is the Beach (i always complained about) - really really nice beach and i must admit its a pitty they have to remove it for the SCH. But the SCH will be much nicer:)

What you guys think the future of the point is?

[water rat]

Great pics mate thanks.. Looks to me like the treatment plant will close, makes sense, how can you have a apartments/shops/commerce looking onto a water treatment plant -apart from that the harbour needs to be widened.

I was at the point over the weekend, like a fool left my camera at home.
Things look really really quiet around there - Dolphin whispers has been stripped and is just standing there. Heritage Square has not started despite them saying it was going to start in April. No shops have opened. A little bit sad i must admit. What you guys think?

One thing that has improved is the Beach (i always complained about) - really really nice beach and i must admit its a pitty they have to remove it for the SCH. But the SCH will be much nicer:)

What you guys think the future of the point is?

the SCH 'aint gonna happen - watch this space .....or the one in the SCH thread ........

if our City Bundlers cant build a pier on time how the hell are they going to get a small craft harbor right. Check the pier at Umhlanga which is still closed to the public. Have you ever come across a more inept bunch of aresholes in your life ?

[dysan1]

ummm the pier is closed for the addition of stairs which were never part of the original plans you moaner

by the way, thanx for posting the overhead shots, the pier is developing nicely!

and LUF the beach is not disapearing, only a small percentage of it. go to the start of the SCH thread and u will see just how much beach will still be there.

[Luf]

Dysan, i never said it was disapearing, all i said was the beach in front of the clubs was looking really good. Last time i was there it was full of litter. I do know the plans of the SCH and i am in full support of it (sorry Ratty:))

@Ratty - driving through the CBD, i kinda agree with your view on the a-holes running the city - it was full of litter, taxis doing what they like and buildings falling apart. But still i looove durban and Marine Par. and Vic Embank. look so good +1 but still many issues to sort out. The durbs CBD is tiny, how hard can it be to sort it out?

@Dysan, didnt mean the beach was going to be distroyed, sorry mate. Whats your opinion on the current situation at the point - apart from the SCH?
The area looks so good i just wish those damn interest rates would just come down and shops would open up.

My rant/opinion/praise for the night.
Take it easssy.

[Durbsboi]

Just realised you can see the pool level of my clients penthouse in one of those pics, Im so stoked, I hope I get invited to the house warming :D

[666PYC]

LUF the beach is not disapearing, only a small percentage of it. go to the start of the SCH thread and u will see just how much beach will still be there.

Dysan / Luf the beach is being removed totally to build the super basement and realign the sea wall than an artificial beach (parched beach) is to be created. This beach is for the exclusive use of the combined club for boat launch and retrieval. I was part of the team that negotiated and designed that beach. If luf is referring to the total loss of a public beach yes it will be gone for good. Maybe you should all stop speculating and go strait to Brink and ask him to come clean. That beach is not for the use of the flat dwellers if this is what he has lead you to believe … shame.

[Luf]

^^ mate i understand clearly what the SCH development entails, and as you by now know i am in full support of it but at the same time understand where you coming from.

BTW - as you mentioned above, you said they you where/are involved. Any news you can tell us? I hear you have to all move into one club by the end of the month?

Eish this is taking waaaaay to long.

[dysan1]

we have said all along that the new beaches will be for everyone

[666PYC]

Luf everything revolves around the outcome of the EIA at the moment the process is in limbo. The clubs refuse to sign the memorandum of understanding as it gives the developers cart blanch to do as they please without any protection for the clubs. The site allocated for the new combined club is berried under the construction site for the harbour widening. The super basement is on hold due to the EIA process so the ski boat club has no need to relocate to the PYC site. The clubs as non profit organisation would be crazy spending money upgrading or relocating at the moment without some signed and legally binding agreements. No news one way or the other is as frustrating to us as it is to you.

Dysan1 I have to quote Neils Brink “The property East of the public promenade will be off limits to the public to produce a feeling of exclusivity” This includes the new beach as it was agreed in all the meeting pertaining to the beech that the beach is a launch site for the movement of vehicles and craft and not for public bathing. If you have any legitimate sauce that says other ways please let me know who this is so this can be taken to the next level.

If any of you are able to get down to the KZ-NIA at 160 Bulwer road Glenwood The house next to the NIA gallery. Pick up a copy of this month’s KZ-NIA Journal; it is dedicated to the point from the history, previous proposals and a retrospective of the development to date. It is a nice to have if you have an interest in the area.

[666PYC]

1. Beachsite SGM – 23 June 2008

Members are reminded that the Special General Meeting regarding the Beachsite relocation is scheduled for Monday 23 June and that the Notice and Supporting documentation can be viewed on the website www.pyc.co.za . Members will find that the documentation on the website will be updated from time to time as the negotiations are ongoing and there will be a number of additions and alterations between the first draft placed before Gencom and the final draft to be signed after the SGM

- If you have a real intrest in where things are at the moment you should read the documents on the PYC web site

[Durbsboi]

Just got a mail in from the Project Manager of the Harbour Widening project.

Just so you know what we are doing down at this end of Durban (when we are not sitting on the beach !), here are a few recent photos of the Durban Harbour Entrance Widening project. The dredger in a number of the photos is the Trailer Suction Hopper Dredger "Orwell" , currently deployed on the project. She is feeding sand into the Durban Beach Feeding Scheme, in order to maintain the replenishment of the beaches.
We will be demolishing the hopper that you see in some of the photos, and replacing it with a similar system located at A Berth adjacent the NSRI offices.

The NSRI Base, where our site offices are located, is the building with the blue roof located in the left background of image 023.

Image 042 shows the precast stockpile for the antifer cubes being used the reinforce the South Breakwater. These are 45T concrete cubes used in conjunction with the traditional dolosses that we are used to seeing.

The barge shown in image 033 is predredging the footprint of the New North Groyne, ahead of the end-tipping operation. The cranes at the root of the New North Groyne (image 023) and the South Breakwater (image 008) are the Mammoet portal cranes used to place the armour rock, dolosses and antifer cubes.

This part of the project (the Entrance Widening) is currently around 36% complete. The main upcoming event will be the arrival of the excavator dredger "Pinocchio" which will make rapid inroads into the excavation of the North Revetment, the line of which can be seen in image 023, where the Contractor has been working in excavations to place geotextile, filter layers and armour rock in the dry.

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[666PYC]

^^ Fantastic pics and update thanks

[Harkeb]

great indeed. So, will they also start building the new yacht club just outside by the mouth?

[Luf]

@Water Rat @666PYC

Hey guys, i believe you guys had a meeting yesterday (23rd June) with regards to the SCH and the furture of you club houses.

Can you guys give us info on what where the outcomes of the meetings?

[water rat]

@Water Rat @666PYC

Hey guys, i believe you guys had a meeting yesterday (23rd June) with regards to the SCH and the furture of you club houses.

Can you guys give us info on what where the outcomes of the meetings?

hi Luff - i understand that the DSC and PYC have voted to continue working with the DPDC to find a solution that will be best for the water sports community and tourism. This means that they are supportive of the Point Redevelopment and fully accept that they will have to move to alternate premises. The DUC will also meet soon or have already.

The PYC members also voted on whether or not they support the development of the small craft harbour. The result was a unanimous no. only abt 10% voted yes. Remember that these guys own boats and understand the sea and there boats place in a maritime environment. This vote will not prevent the clubs from negotiating with the DPDC in good faith; it just means that they do not believe that the SCH will provide any benifit to the sailing and ski boat fishing community.

[Luf]

Thanks Ratty - good to hear that you are all coming to the table to discuss the matter.
Please keep us updated.

[NORMAN F]

The pics are great and puts into perspective all the that is in progress, it is obvious that they are really working as a team and getting things done on schedule.

Regarding the SCH the following is a letter I sent to the editor of the Sunday Tribune, they published it on the 22nd June.

My motivation apart from being involved in the marketing of property in the Precient is to get beyond the negativity that has been prominant in the past.

Durban needs the Point waterfront to be sucessfull.

TWO SIDES TO A STORY

I have just received an emailed Durban Paddle Ski Club newsletter and must comment as I am involved in marketing property and firm believer that the Point Waterfront is essential to the recovery of the Durban tourist market

Having been personally involved with activities on the Durban Beach front since 1952 through my involvement with Surf Lifesaving I find it very difficult to rationalise the thinking of the Chairman of the Durban Paddle Ski Club. I accept that his Club does provide a facility for the paddle ski fishing industry that started as an offspring of the rescue /recreational craft developed by Pirates Lifesaving Club Member Fred Crocker. I have many fond memories of using these craft for surfing next to the old pier at the bottom of West Street and North Beach.

It is interesting to note that the current popular Fishing Ski is a development from the new generation of Glass Fiber Rescue craft. I believe that there are more than 3000 of these have been built, they are a common site on the top of all sorts of vehicles. This modern ski is launched and landed through the surf up and down the Natal coast where better fishing conditions exist. I have come across these craft over two miles offshore Umhloti whilst sailing.

By their own admission with only 300 members (not all who are active) they cannot claim to represent the paddle ski fishing fraternity.

I am led to believe that the principal three clubs are in discussion with the Metro over the contract to purchase the prime site next to the harbor mouth.

The proposed Small Craft Harbour will enhance access to water sports activities in Durban none of the activities listed in the newsletter will cease as a result of this development. My prediction is that the proposed Joint Water Sports Club will within the first three years become so popular that the may have to consider restricting membership. The combined membership and superb location will certainly generate more than sufficient funds to service any bonds over the property. The fact that the will own the property and no longer be a tenant is certainly a great advantage.

All the Clubs leases have expired and are now on a month to month basis at a nominal rental at the discretion of the Metro. The site they have been offered for R850 000.00 (commercial value R12 000 000.00) plus the establishing of proper hard launch and soft launch facilities makes it a no brainer not to grab the opportunity with both hands.

The comment that he does not know if non powered craft will be permitted to use the Small Craft Harbor is pure miss information. The soft launch are within the SCH is there to cater for sailing craft.

Another point of misinformation is that Vetches is a bathing beach, this is absolutely not true bathing is actually banned as it is used by motorized craft. Lifeguards have never been on duty on this beach as they are on all the legal bathing areas.

The general public cannot gain access to the area through any of the three major clubs as this is controlled by there security. Access is either along the beach from u Shaka or in the extreme South near the Paddle Ski Club, the only ablution facilities available to the public are at Adding ton Beach or e u Shaka

Having taken the trouble to read all the reports posted on the Point waterfront web site www.durbanpoint.co.za I am impressed by the depth and detail covered by them.

Those objecting to the project seem to be under the impression that the noise they make has value this is not true I was embarrassed by their behavior at he last public meeting.

[Luf]

^^ Great article Norman. I 100% agree with you. As you are invloved with the DPDC please please can you get them to update their website - it is over a year old and does the are NO justice.

If you dont mind me asking, what property are you invloved in? Heritage Square?

[NORMAN F]

Another great day in Durban, good day to get down to the Point where the World Cup Ski Series takes place today and tomorrow next to the eShaka pier. The question is will the long race be today or tomorrow, tomorrow will most definatly suit Oscar.

I am with Domain Properties and marketing the Heritage Hotel one of the only investments that has the oppertunity of liquidating the bond within 10 years even at 15% interest (www.heritagesquare.co.za)

Our next development on lot 3.5 is well into the planning stage.

Regarding the Point in general I wish I was involved with the DPDC to wake them up with positive feed back to the public, developers and prospective developers The lack of information from them is not doing the market any good.

[NORMAN F]

Another great day in Durban, good day to get down to the Point where the World Cup Ski Series takes place today and tomorrow next to the eShaka pier. The question is will the long race be today or tomorrow, tomorrow will most definatly suit Oscar.

I am with Domain Properties and marketing the Heritage Hotel one of the only investments that has the opportunity of liquidating the bond within 10 years even at 15% interest (www.heritagesquare.co.za)

Our next development on lot 3.5 is well into the planning stage.

Regarding the Point in general I wish I was involved with the DPDC to wake them up with positive feed back to the public, developers and prospective developers The lack of information from them is not doing the market any good.

[Luf]

Regarding the Point in general I wish I was involved with the DPDC to wake them up with positive feed back to the public, developers and prospective developers The lack of information from them is not doing the market any good.

Norman, get involved then:) It would be great to have a representative of DPDC on this forum. I recieved the email about your guys new development -Heritage Quays - ill make a new thread for it - it looks really good.

When is Heritage Square going to break ground?

[dysan1]

thanx for a great update norm!! where is site 3.5? and what type of developmeny will it be?

[water rat]

The pics are great and puts into perspective all the that is in progress, it is obvious that they are really working as a team and getting things done on schedule.

Regarding the SCH the following is a letter I sent to the editor of the Sunday Tribune, they published it on the 22nd June.

My motivation apart from being involved in the marketing of property in the Precient is to get beyond the negativity that has been prominant in the past.

Durban needs the Point waterfront to be sucessfull.

TWO SIDES TO A STORY

I have just received an emailed Durban Paddle Ski Club newsletter and must comment as I am involved in marketing property and firm believer that the Point Waterfront is essential to the recovery of the Durban tourist market

Having been personally involved with activities on the Durban Beach front since 1952 through my involvement with Surf Lifesaving I find it very difficult to rationalise the thinking of the Chairman of the Durban Paddle Ski Club. I accept that his Club does provide a facility for the paddle ski fishing industry that started as an offspring of the rescue /recreational craft developed by Pirates Lifesaving Club Member Fred Crocker. I have many fond memories of using these craft for surfing next to the old pier at the bottom of West Street and North Beach.

It is interesting to note that the current popular Fishing Ski is a development from the new generation of Glass Fiber Rescue craft. I believe that there are more than 3000 of these have been built, they are a common site on the top of all sorts of vehicles. This modern ski is launched and landed through the surf up and down the Natal coast where better fishing conditions exist. I have come across these craft over two miles offshore Umhloti whilst sailing.

By their own admission with only 300 members (not all who are active) they cannot claim to represent the paddle ski fishing fraternity.

I am led to believe that the principal three clubs are in discussion with the Metro over the contract to purchase the prime site next to the harbor mouth.

The proposed Small Craft Harbour will enhance access to water sports activities in Durban none of the activities listed in the newsletter will cease as a result of this development. My prediction is that the proposed Joint Water Sports Club will within the first three years become so popular that the may have to consider restricting membership. The combined membership and superb location will certainly generate more than sufficient funds to service any bonds over the property. The fact that the will own the property and no longer be a tenant is certainly a great advantage.

All the Clubs leases have expired and are now on a month to month basis at a nominal rental at the discretion of the Metro. The site they have been offered for R850 000.00 (commercial value R12 000 000.00) plus the establishing of proper hard launch and soft launch facilities makes it a no brainer not to grab the opportunity with both hands.

The comment that he does not know if non powered craft will be permitted to use the Small Craft Harbor is pure miss information. The soft launch are within the SCH is there to cater for sailing craft.

Another point of misinformation is that Vetches is a bathing beach, this is absolutely not true bathing is actually banned as it is used by motorized craft. Lifeguards have never been on duty on this beach as they are on all the legal bathing areas.

The general public cannot gain access to the area through any of the three major clubs as this is controlled by there security. Access is either along the beach from u Shaka or in the extreme South near the Paddle Ski Club, the only ablution facilities available to the public are at Adding ton Beach or e u Shaka

Having taken the trouble to read all the reports posted on the Point waterfront web site www.durbanpoint.co.za I am impressed by the depth and detail covered by them.

Those objecting to the project seem to be under the impression that the noise they make has value this is not true I was embarrassed by their behavior at he last public meeting.


tut tut Norman. I was also at the meeting and only 1 guy ( one / uno ) behaved badly.........or am i wrong?

[romanSA]

Good news for the Waterfront.

---------

Posted to the web on: 07 July 2008

Bonatla revives lapsed Durban waterfront deal
Nick Wilson

Property Editor

LISTED property company Bonatla Property Holdings announced on Friday it had revived a lapsed property deal involving the acquisition of an effective 50% stake in the Durban Point waterfront development in KwaZulu-Natal.

The company, which also announced that former Bonatla boss Niki Vontas had been reappointed as an executive director, said the acquisition, for R210m, would be settled by payment of R160m in cash and the balance through the issue of 100-million ordinary shares in Bonatla at 50c a share. This was payable within 120 days of the agreement being signed on Thursday .

Vontas resigned as boss of both Bonatla and Fairvest in 2004 after he was sequestrated in his personal capacity for a debt of R75m owed for put options held by certain company shareholders.

Vontas established put options to guarantee the share price of Bonatla would remain at a certain level to satisfy shareholders who had sold properties to the company. When the share price fell significantly, the shareholders demanded Vontas buy back the shares at the guaranteed price. This resulted in a High Court judgment against Vontas.

Vontas, who since his sequestration acted as a consultant to Bonatla, said on Friday he had been rehabilitated.

As far as the revival of the property deal was concerned, he said that when the waterfront property deal was announced in January last year there was a lot of “adverse publicity about the Durban waterfront”.

“People were going around saying that the major retailers wouldn’t be attracted to the waterfront.” He said Bonatla had now “discovered that there is overwhelming support by the majority of major retailers, including international brands”, as well as “world quality” hotel groups who want to relocate to the Durban Point.

He said last year Bonatla had found it difficult to “access” finance from the local investment market. Vontas said the company had found support from global investors and global financial institutions.

The proposed waterfront development deal would have seen Bonatla in effect buying half the shares in the Durban Point Development for R150m, allowing Malaysian company Renong to withdraw from SA.

The original sale agreement, dated January 8, showed the deal would be structured in such a way that Renong would sell its entire investment in Renong SA, whose main asset was 80,4% of a company called Rocunion, to Bonatla. Rocunion owned 100% of Rocpoint, which in turn owned half of the Durban Point Development Company.

In September last year Bonatla confirmed that the Durban Point deal “as it was previously announced” had lapsed.

Vontas said the other 50% of the Durban Point development was owned by the Durban city council. “We are going to engage now with the Durban city council in order to facilitate the development of the retail and hotel components of the Durban Point .”

Vontas said the ultimate value of the development of the Durban waterfront would exceed R10bn. He said Bonatla, which was suspended by the JSE from trading in July last year, had now put in an application to the JSE for the “lifting of the suspension”.

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A797323

[Luf]

^^ Thanks Roman - very interesting.

BTW mate, are there any new shops/bars etc at the point?

[dysan1]

good news Jerome, i think this has been a torn in the side holding things up

[romanSA]

Well, a new restaurant called Java Cafe has opened in Marine Point in place of "Besides the Point" cafe due to a change in ownership.

Also, I heard yesterday that a 800 seater convention centre is on the cards for The Sails. Although is tiny compared to the ICC, if this happens, I see more foot traffic for the area and more restaurants opening to cater for the delegates. If the ICC was only located in the Point Waterfront it would be an unbeatable venue / destination so I see this venue being very popular if it comes to fruition.

[Luf]

Yeah - if the ICC was at the Point i would be so brave to say it would prob. be the best/most popular convention centre in the world. We need to start seeing more people in the area - Coffee shops and a supermarket such as PnP or Spar.

I just cant believe how badly they market the Point - There is no advertisment any where. Living in JHB, no one i have spoken to has ever heard of it or knows whats going on and no property magazines feature it. You guys feel the same?

[dysan1]

it was featured alot a few years back, but the in your face coverage has gone. i think the delays with the ownership changes have not helped but i think a few more pushes with the new people on board, the mall rising and the beach hotels popping up will push in right direction. and def when the marina gets the go ahead things will be noticed again.

[NORMAN F]

I agree promotion of the Point has been dismal to say the least, even the local population are under the false impression that driving down Point Road is like running a mine field.

To much of misinformation and negative publicity distributed by the chairman of the Paddle Ski Club has been promoted by the press.

The highlighted section of the Bonella article is great news

The message need to be put across strongly that the Point Waterfront is the most secure are in KZN with its private security foot patrols backed by CCTV on every corner plus Metro and SAP patrols.

Durban needs the Point Waterfront and the Point waterfront needs the support of the Durban rate payers.

[Pule]

^^ If that's how the chairman of the Paddle Ski Club and his crew are playing the game then I think Durban Point management should also play aggresively. The majority rule, I'm sure most people would definately vote for the Point developments more than satisfying the needs of small groups of people. The Point will create more jobs for our poor people.

[water rat]

^^ If that's how the chairman of the Paddle Ski Club and his crew are playing the game then I think Durban Point management should also play aggresively. The majority rule, I'm sure most people would definately vote for the Point developments more than satisfying the needs of small groups of people. The Point will create more jobs for our poor people.

hi Pule the Social Impact study, which forms part of the EIR finds that the majority of people dont support development of the SCH at the Point. It is this issue that is creating the negativity. No one is against the redevelopment of the Point, its just the sch that is creating all the crap. At the moment the situation lies with the courts as the PSC is defending itself against the DPDC.

The Financial Impact study of the EIR also finds that the current activities contribute millions to the economy. Check out www.pravinamar.com for details.

[Luf]

@Norman - the promotion of the Point is a must - There is just nothing on it compared to say the Umhlanga Ridge New Town Centre. As you are involved in the Point please hammer the DPDC to starting doing something about it - maybe by starting to update their poor website.

[dysan1]

hi Pule the Social Impact study, which forms part of the EIR finds that the majority of people dont support development of the SCH at the Point.

I would love to know who this majority of people are. Cause lets be honest, the vast majority of people of all races and income levels couldnt give a toss about whats going on at the point and also probably dont even know about these plans

[NORMAN F]

I cannot see how four clubs with a membership of 3000 can contribute millions to the local economy.

Having been involved in sailing and lived in Europe and the USA it is my strong impression that Marina's have allways attracted tourist activity, the Point Marina will be unique in this regard, being alongside beaches and a theme park will ensure ite popularity.

The marina will be the focal point of all personal and tourist related water activities.

The delaying tactics are costing 100's of jobs in the building industry as well as the loss of millions of rands in rateable income for Durban.

I will be responding to the Chairman of the DPSC in Letters to the editor on Sunday in the Sunday Tribune

[Durbsboi]

I would love to know who this majority of people are. Cause lets be honest, the vast majority of people of all races and income levels couldnt give a toss about whats going on at the point and also probably dont even know about these plans

Hit the nail on the head there, go ask the normal citizen & I dont mean the man on the street, heck, go ask the rich man in the burbs or their shop-a-holic wife in the shopping centers about this project, no one will know what you talking about. It needs to be brought to a more public level than whats it at now. The majority of Durban need to know what they could possibly have in their own city & the forces that are stopping us from having it.

[Pule]

I cannot see how four clubs with a membership of 3000 can contribute millions to the local economy.

Having been involved in sailing and lived in Europe and the USA it is my strong impression that Marina's have allways attracted tourist activity, the Point Marina will be unique in this regard, being alongside beaches and a theme park will ensure ite popularity.

The marina will be the focal point of all personal and tourist related water activities.

The delaying tactics are costing 100's of jobs in the building industry as well as the loss of millions of rands in rateable income for Durban.

I will be responding to the Chairman of the DPSC in Letters to the editor on Sunday in the Sunday Tribune

I fully agree with you. Water Rat, I'm sorry buddy but deep inside you also know that this will definately contribute more to the GPD but the love that you have for your sport makes you ignore the true facts.

[666PYC]

Gentlemen in the last month I have been In Genoa Italy and Knysna, I got to see your image of utopia. O my god I hope this is not what you have planned for Durban In all the time I was in both marinas not one vessel entered or left these marinas. This only strengthened my resolve to fight for what is right and sustainable. Only a complete moron would substitute a thriving and active beach facility for a clinical and dead marina environment as I have witnessed. You may love the grave yard and clinical feel of the point but it’s not for me. Let’s not forget as developers you take the money and run leaving the rest of us to clean up the mess you have made. Norman F I would like to congratulate you on attending the public meetings and congratulations on your disinformation campaign. I remember you from the meeting and thanks for the chance to have a chuckle. As you are not part of the sailing community please don’t presume to speak for us. You may impress the less informed readers on this site but as I could care less about your selfish need to sell real estate to the detriment of all others.

Not one of you pro marina antagonists has any interest in the sea or anything nautical or to a large extent live in Durban. Your only interest is in financial gain from a distance. If the vast majority of sailors, fisherman surf skiers windsurfers divers etc etc don’t want the marina please enlighten me who the F*** is it intended for.

[JOSHYNOSHY]

Good point
This development will have a more of a negative results than a positive

I am not a sailor or paddler ect ect but I agree with you on that
This development is supposed to benefit the community and if that is not the case
then there is no point in building this marina

But it would make the area look nice though
But it must be a benefit to every party

[NORMAN F]

(As you are not part of the sailing community please don’t presume to speak for us.)

Having been activly involved in offshore sailing/racing since 1960 and having logged over 60000 miles of ocean sailing in SA, Europe and the USA. Your presumptions regarding my watersport activities is miles out.

I assure you that my support for the SCH is based on experiance through being involved in Durbans Beach activities for over 55 years and some time spent on the Durban Publicity Associaton.

I also have the ability to think outside the box and see the big picture. The fact that I market property in the Point Waterfront has no influance on thinking.

At least the principal Clubs managments are being realistic. the following extract from a club newsletter is self explanatory.

"Second Phase

As you are probably all aware, we are looking to buy a 4000sq meter site at a favorable rate from the developers. This site will be situated next to the newly completed north pier, where the curved wall of the sand pumping scheme is currently.
In the attached picture, our site will be located next where the current sand pumping scheme is.

The developers will build us a slip way of some 25 meters in the front of the club to the right as per the attached picture, - to the left of that will be an 80 meter stretch of soft launch that will be used for the launching of hobie cats, paddle ski’s and the like. This soft launch facility will be closed to the public and will be solely for the use of club members.

The developers have persistently requested that a boat stacking system be included in the planning in case the need for one arises in the future.
After much discussion, the developers proposed that they make available a further 1000 sq meters behind our site as well as we, in our planning make available 1300sq meters in case the need arises for the stacking system. Should the need arise, they will buy from us the 1300 at the same rate per sq meter that we paid for it, and build the boat stacking system behind our club. This will be a private venture and have nothing to do with the club. Should our members wish to use this facility, they will enter into a separate agreement.

With regard to the clubhouse, - we envisage a 2 to 3 story building being built on stilts, 3.5 meters above the ground. The reason for this is that it will give us a further 3000 sq meters of parking under the club to be used for boats and tow vehicles after they return from sea to enjoy the club facilities before going home. We are also negotiating to have the use of certain other common areas for casual parking.

We have also met with a finance institution to discuss the financing of the new club, we are currently working on finance issues.
We would like to leave you with this thought,- A bond of R15 million would attract a monthly repayment of approximately R150,000 per month, this divided by 3000 members = R50 per month, R600 per year.
We may loose some members but later gain new members arising from the development, so if we have to divide the R150 000 by 2000 members, it means R75 per month or R900 per year. We certainly feel that the club will be affordable to most members.
This is a very broad outline to show how the numbers make the burden lighter, - but please bear in mind we will only build the club to accommodate the membership at the time with plans to extend when the need arises.
The developers have also agreed that we can build boat storage underground on the site two back from us, - it is a site of about 2700 sq meters.
We will look at this but on a sectional title basis for boat houses.

Well, I think we have given you a broad outline of what has been, and is on the cards."

[Luf]

^^ Thanks Norman. That letter looks very promising. R75 a month is not bad at all and i am 100% sure that once more and more people move into the area and the club house and SCH built, more people will join.

BTW mate, what has happened with your site: HeritageSquare.co.za?

[NORMAN F]

Will check on the website and get back to you.
Regarding the joint Watersports Clubs my feeling is that they may have to wait list membership within a few years due to its location and popularity.

I would like to add impressions of the Heritage Hotel and the new project on 3.5on the Durban Hotel thread how do I go about it?

[water rat]

(As you are not part of the sailing community please don’t presume to speak for us.)

Having been activly involved in offshore sailing/racing since 1960 and having logged over 60000 miles of ocean sailing in SA, Europe and the USA. Your presumptions regarding my watersport activities is miles out.

I assure you that my support for the SCH is based on experiance through being involved in Durbans Beach activities for over 55 years and some time spent on the Durban Publicity Associaton.

I also have the ability to think outside the box and see the big picture. The fact that I market property in the Point Waterfront has no influance on thinking.

At least the principal Clubs managments are being realistic. the following extract from a club newsletter is self explanatory.

"Second Phase

As you are probably all aware, we are looking to buy a 4000sq meter site at a favorable rate from the developers. This site will be situated next to the newly completed north pier, where the curved wall of the sand pumping scheme is currently.
In the attached picture, our site will be located next where the current sand pumping scheme is.

The developers will build us a slip way of some 25 meters in the front of the club to the right as per the attached picture, - to the left of that will be an 80 meter stretch of soft launch that will be used for the launching of hobie cats, paddle ski’s and the like. This soft launch facility will be closed to the public and will be solely for the use of club members.

The developers have persistently requested that a boat stacking system be included in the planning in case the need for one arises in the future.
After much discussion, the developers proposed that they make available a further 1000 sq meters behind our site as well as we, in our planning make available 1300sq meters in case the need arises for the stacking system. Should the need arise, they will buy from us the 1300 at the same rate per sq meter that we paid for it, and build the boat stacking system behind our club. This will be a private venture and have nothing to do with the club. Should our members wish to use this facility, they will enter into a separate agreement.

With regard to the clubhouse, - we envisage a 2 to 3 story building being built on stilts, 3.5 meters above the ground. The reason for this is that it will give us a further 3000 sq meters of parking under the club to be used for boats and tow vehicles after they return from sea to enjoy the club facilities before going home. We are also negotiating to have the use of certain other common areas for casual parking.

We have also met with a finance institution to discuss the financing of the new club, we are currently working on finance issues.
We would like to leave you with this thought,- A bond of R15 million would attract a monthly repayment of approximately R150,000 per month, this divided by 3000 members = R50 per month, R600 per year.
We may loose some members but later gain new members arising from the development, so if we have to divide the R150 000 by 2000 members, it means R75 per month or R900 per year. We certainly feel that the club will be affordable to most members.
This is a very broad outline to show how the numbers make the burden lighter, - but please bear in mind we will only build the club to accommodate the membership at the time with plans to extend when the need arises.
The developers have also agreed that we can build boat storage underground on the site two back from us, - it is a site of about 2700 sq meters.
We will look at this but on a sectional title basis for boat houses.

Well, I think we have given you a broad outline of what has been, and is on the cards."

Hi Norman - just by way of an update, and assuming that you got retrieved the letter you refer to from the PYC's website, the vote that took place, subsequent to the positing of this letter was a unanimous NO FOR THE SCH.

Yes, the clubs are run by realists who understand that their only hope of survival is to continue negotiating with the DPDC. However their preferred scenario is that the Point Redevelopment is completed without the construction of the sch.

The majority of the people that attended the club's meeting and voted no for the SCH, are boat owners. If they dont see the need for the SCH why continue to support its development?

[666PYC]

Norman F you may have been part of the sailing community in the past but we are dealing with the present. Having been an offshore sailor does not make you a specialist in the requirements for beach cats and dinghies. My fight against the harbour is based on present day experience of the vetches beach site.

Lets trade accomplishments I race yachts of all types at the highest level in this country for the past 30+ years. I hold National titles in both catamaran and keel boat classes, 2nd places as skipper in vasco and Inhacer races. I have raced windsurfers since the 70s, I hold a skippers ticket and an open water 2 dive certificate. I race surf skies both singles and doubles and have competed in the world cups. This qualifies me to speak from a position of knowledge and not just pub gossip.

In the past I have held a PPL, glider and paraglide licences but would never be presumptuous enough to dictate to the flying community as to where airports should be placed to satisfy my own interests.

Your argument for the SCH is based on short term job creation and tourism needs at the detriment to the needs and requirements of the rate paying inhabitants of Durban who use the site in a sustainable manner at present. Your argument will be how much do we add to the city coffers. This is completely irrelevant; we provide a socially responsible benefit to the city, yes that right non profit. As an old time sailor having sailed in and out of many marinas you will know how elitist they are only allowing access to card holds. The beach at present is open to all, this allows the public to get up and close to the boats and the action.

Norman its my job to think outside the box its what I do for a living, being committed to a cause for the right reasons is a far cry from being narrow minded. I do not suffer fools gladly and if you wish to provide incorrect facts or misinformation I will correct you.

I have been fighting this on two fronts, firstly hands off the beach and secondly from the realisation that money and politics will always win out at the end of the day. You are telling me nothing new I have been fighting for our rights for the last 5 years. The 100m of launch beach and 25m slip are of my doing. Your friend Brink never included launch facilities or club facilities in the original scheme, He informed me his profits out wade any need to maintain my lifestyle, I don’t have time for this kind of stupidity. If we were consulted from day 1 non of the delays would ever have happened. Its all very well looking at us as the bad guys but lets not forget all the bullshit and double standards we have had to put up with over the last few years from the developers. Stand back and look at your selves ……

[shacky]

ok um you guys are welcome to start your own thread...in the meantime anyone got some photos of any developments?

[Luf]

@666PYC and @Ratty

As you both know i am all for the SCH and at the same time i fully understand why you guys are against it and i dont want your 'way of life' to change and 'hobbys' removed. What i want to know is: If the SCH does not go ahead, and the rest of the Point fully developed what is going to change with you guys? With all due respect, you can not have multi-million Rand developments/apartments over looking or next to your club houses which look very run down and 'messy'. By messy i mean trailors and old boats lying around plus the terrible car tracks you leave on the beach. I do read on a monthy basis all three news letters (especially PYC which is always updated) so i do know that this 'messyness' has been raised a number of times.
Will you upgrade your clubs, appeal to the public more in terms of the public using your Bar etc. On the many times i have been to the Point i have always wanted to come have a beer or five:) there and not been allowed in.


Another thing:

If the SCH does go ahead and you guys are evicted and costruction begins and eventually completed, Are you guys going to continue sailing? By this i mean will you embrace the SCH and the situation you would find yourselves in to the best of your abilities or will you just pack up shop and thats that, end your beloved past time?

Looking forward to what you have to say.

[dysan1]

guys please keep all the SCH related discussion in its thread. Thanx

[dysan1]

Will check on the website and get back to you.
Regarding the joint Watersports Clubs my feeling is that they may have to wait list membership within a few years due to its location and popularity.

I would like to add impressions of the Heritage Hotel and the new project on 3.5on the Durban Hotel thread how do I go about it?

upload your photos on a photo sharing site like photobucket, flikr or so and then paste those links into your message on here.

[NORMAN F]

Thanks I have gone to photobucket which link of the four offered should I use?

[dysan1]

the one that says

[water rat]

@666PYC and @Ratty

As you both know i am all for the SCH and at the same time i fully understand why you guys are against it and i dont want your 'way of life' to change and 'hobbys' removed. What i want to know is: If the SCH does not go ahead, and the rest of the Point fully developed what is going to change with you guys? With all due respect, you can not have multi-million Rand developments/apartments over looking or next to your club houses which look very run down and 'messy'. By messy i mean trailors and old boats lying around plus the terrible car tracks you leave on the beach. I do read on a monthy basis all three news letters (especially PYC which is always updated) so i do know that this 'messyness' has been raised a number of times.
Will you upgrade your clubs, appeal to the public more in terms of the public using your Bar etc. On the many times i have been to the Point i have always wanted to come have a beer or five:) there and not been allowed in.


Another thing:

If the SCH does go ahead and you guys are evicted and costruction begins and eventually completed, Are you guys going to continue sailing? By this i mean will you embrace the SCH and the situation you would find yourselves in to the best of your abilities or will you just pack up shop and thats that, end your beloved past time?

Looking forward to what you have to say.

hi Luff - i habe never heard of anyone being turned away from the PYC's Beach Club Bar. This is open to the public except when it is being hired for a private function like a wedding.

Sailing is a way of life not a hobby. I have already sold my hobie cat and bought a small keelboat instead. This way i know that i can continue sailing at sea off Durban.

Whether or not the sch is approved, the 3 clubs ( Ski boat / PYC / DUC ) have accepted that they will move to new premises that fit in with the Point Redevelopment.

[Luf]

hi Luff - i habe never heard of anyone being turned away from the PYC's Beach Club Bar. This is open to the public except when it is being hired for a private function like a wedding.

Thanks for your reply mate - good to hear that you will still move

With regard to the top quote. You know that security gaurd that stands by your boom to get in? He is the one who says that its members ONLY and that if he lets us in to clubs he will get into shit (understanable, so i dont argue and fight him as i dont want him to get into shit).

The one time i did question him, three goons (lack of a better word) came towards myself and my girlfriend and demanded i left the premises and that the clubs where for club members only and thats that. I left it at that but was sad that i was not able to have a few :cheers: at your clubs - i would of thought they would be thrilled with me spending my money there.

I will be in Durbs (to hopefully escape this weather here) at the end of the month and will try once again to come in for a drink on the saterday.

BTW i didnt mean to offend you by suggesting that your sailing was a hobby - i know you guys take it very seriously and i can see why - it must be just awsome sitting on your boat out there fishing or what not.

[water rat]

Thanks for your reply mate - good to hear that you will still move

With regard to the top quote. You know that security gaurd that stands by your boom to get in? He is the one who says that its members ONLY and that if he lets us in to clubs he will get into shit (understanable, so i dont argue and fight him as i dont want him to get into shit).

The one time i did question him, three goons (lack of a better word) came towards myself and my girlfriend and demanded i left the premises and that the clubs where for club members only and thats that. I left it at that but was sad that i was not able to have a few :cheers: at your clubs - i would of thought they would be thrilled with me spending my money there.

I will be in Durbs (to hopefully escape this weather here) at the end of the month and will try once again to come in for a drink on the saterday.

BTW i didnt mean to offend you by suggesting that your sailing was a hobby - i know you guys take it very seriously and i can see why - it must be just awsome sitting on your boat out there fishing or what not.


yes the parking is an issue. the sites that the clubs are on includes the parking area. this was never a problem until the beach became so popular. many of the clubs suffered problems due to theft. this was especially bad at the PYC where aluminium masts were stolen and sold for scrap. the best solution will be to park at the uShaka 'B' parking area and stroll down the beach to the PYC. The pizzas are great and the beer is cold.......

[Sand-Shark]

So Ratty, are you saying the area is a crime hot-spot and definitely needs the development to improve conditions? :lol:

[NORMAN F]

The area is certainly no crime hotspot, however the clubs are not patroled by the DPDC private security force and covered by their 24/7 CCTV installed on every corner in the developed area.

[dysan1]

norm where the pics u were gonna post mate?

[Luf]

Dysan1 Let me post some for Norman, it seems he is stuggling to post his new development.

[dysan1]

cool go ahead if you have them mate :) interested to see this new 3.5 development...is it also a hotel?

[Luf]

Dysan Posted. It looks like its a hotel and apartments Any news on that other building you mentioned - Habourside?

[NORMAN F]

Dysan1 Let me post some for Norman, it seems he is stuggling to post his new development.

Thanks Dysan/Luf
Much appreciated

[NORMAN F]

Interesting when looking through the threads.

Compared to Cape Town not much is happening in Durban.

A great number of projects proposed but not getting off the ground, I wonder if this is due to developers being ultra cautious by relying on selling off plan

[Luf]

mmm yeah dont know Norman - How many do they normally want to secure before the start construction? 50%?

When is heritage square starting?
BTW your website seems to still be dead.

[dysan1]

Interesting when looking through the threads.

Compared to Cape Town not much is happening in Durban.

A great number of projects proposed but not getting off the ground, I wonder if this is due to developers being ultra cautious by relying on selling off plan

plenty is happening it is just all out in umhlanga

[Luf]

plenty is happening it is just all out in umhlanga

True. Plus Umhlanga has good press on it - they advertise and every one knows about it.

When it comes to the Point Waterfront, no one knows anything about it - all they have is a website that hasnt been updated in 3 or so years. I read alot of property magazines and there hasnt been any mention of the Point for a long long time. I wonder why they do no advertising - i just can not understand their rational.

Also another thing is that the Point has nothing in terms of shops, eatarys etc. Who wants to move into a place where they have to drive a long way to get to a decent food shop like Pick and Pay, Spar, Woolies etc. The whole place looks empty especially at night.
They are in desprite need of hiring a good marketing team to promote the area.

It is a real pitty as i believe the Point could be the best spot in Durban, Way out doing Umhlanga Town Ridge

[Pule]

When we spoke about that about a week or so, I sent them email compalining about their marketing and I never even received an acknowlegment of receiving of them receiving that email. I think we need to flood them with emails.

[Luf]

When we spoke about that about a week or so, I sent them email compalining about their marketing and I never even received an acknowlegment of receiving of them receiving that email. I think we need to flood them with emails.

haha i wouldnt bother - i have tried, they never reply nor do they pick up their phones. looks to me like either they could give a damn or they have completely lost interest in the whole project.

[Pule]

^^ that's sad.

[NORMAN F]

I echo your sentiments, anyone got a very Big Firecracker. I have also been told personally when calling that he does not take phone calls, communication is only through his PA.

[Luf]

Norman, who does not take calls? This Colin oke?

How are your two developments coming along?
As you are in the Point area more frequantly than us can you please
give us some feed back on what is happening there? Has anything changed?

[dysan1]

True. Plus Umhlanga has good press on it - they advertise and every one knows about it.

When it comes to the Point Waterfront, no one knows anything about it - all they have is a website that hasnt been updated in 3 or so years. I read alot of property magazines and there hasnt been any mention of the Point for a long long time. I wonder why they do no advertising - i just can not understand their rational.

Also another thing is that the Point has nothing in terms of shops, eatarys etc. Who wants to move into a place where they have to drive a long way to get to a decent food shop like Pick and Pay, Spar, Woolies etc. The whole place looks empty especially at night.
They are in desprite need of hiring a good marketing team to promote the area.

It is a real pitty as i believe the Point could be the best spot in Durban, Way out doing Umhlanga Town Ridge

There have been some good articles this year on the point in the Property mag KZN edition.

But i agree. They should have had better foresight and developed the shops upfront. Its a scenario that works, just look at the V&A and at gateway. The malls came first and then all hell broke loose after.

[water rat]

There have been some good articles this year on the point in the Property mag KZN edition.

But i agree. They should have had better foresight and developed the shops upfront. Its a scenario that works, just look at the V&A and at gateway. The malls came first and then all hell broke loose after.

the problem here is that the developer and city manager tried to hide what they would do to the beach. And THEN;all hell broke loose!

Moral of the story for the 'Unholy Alliance' ( Brink & Sutcliffe ) - dont fcuk with the public ...they will kick your ass into line !

[water rat]

the problem here is that the developer and city manager tried to hide what they would do to the beach. And THEN;all hell broke loose!

Moral of the story for the 'Unholy Alliance' ( Brink & Sutcliffe ) - dont fcuk with the public ...they will kick your ass into line !

All's well with Caesar's empire
July 24, 2008 Edition 1


CANTERING home to my suburban villa the other day, I spotted the silhouettes of three imperial figures patrolling the parapet of the new Moses Mabhida Colosseum.

And what an impressive sight they were. The dying rays of the winter sun lit up their magnificent, gold-embroidered togas.

The first figure was male. Balding, with a handsome, distinctly Roman nose. You could tell from the way he carried his body that he was a man of authority.

The second man was slightly shorter in stature and the third member of the trio was female. She also strode purposefully about the parapet, weighed down somewhat by several tubes of parchment pinioned beneath her armpits.

Intrigued, I guided my horse and chariot off the Via Masabalala Yengwa towards the new public viewing platform in Via Walter Gilbert.

Luckily I keep a pair of binoculars to hand and it wasn't long before I could put a face to the three famous forms - Caesar Sutcliffe, Senator Kumar and Cleopatra Ellingson.

"Oh, Caesar . . . isn't this all just so beautiful! It's starting to take shape rather well, don't you think?" gushed Cleopatra as she unrolled another bundle of parchment plans.

"Yes, dear," grunted Caesar, "but it's only the start. I have great visions for this city. But we need to collect more money from the citizens . . . a lot more.

"By the way, Krishy, how are we doing in that department?" he inquired of the city treasurer.


"Well, frankly, Emperor, some of the natives are a bit restless. Mainly, those troublesome clans on the north side of the Tiber. They claim it's unfair to saddle them with rates adjustments of 100% to 300%. Actually, I'm worried they might have a point," he added hesitantly.

"Oh, Krishy, Krishy, Krishy. Come now. You've been an absolute genius raising revenue these past few years, but I'm not certain you fully grasp the finer points of politics," snorted Caesar.

"Look, the Tiberians have a lot of money. Far too much in my view, but there aren't very many of them at the end of the day. They're not likely to vote for us, so don't fuss about their bleating. We need to appreciate who butters our bread. Play one group off against the other, so to speak.

"Oh, by the by, I think you did a brilliant job exempting the majority of our voters from paying rates, or at least giving them a fat discount. And the nobles are also delighted that you managed to cut rates for 60% of industrial properties and 40% of the smaller businesses. Quite a masterstroke in my view," Caesar observed.

"Well, yes, thank you, Emperor. But, um, what if the Tiberians go to court?" inquired the treasurer.

"Court? Court, you say! Come, come, Krishy. Why do you think we built this great circus we stand on? Most Tiberians can't see beyond the next rugby match. Just give them some gladiators!

"All we have to do now is get their blasted rugby union to smash down that tatty old colosseum across the road and move across here. If we manage that, everyone will be happy.

"Now, why don't we all pop down to our new poverty upliftment plan on the beachfront. I want to see how the shopping arcades and luxury villas are coming along at the Point."

[Luf]

LOL ratty - well written and actually very funny but i dont agree to all of it.

I believe heavily in the Point and Urban regenaration. Great public works (stadia, gautrain and SCH:)) are a great way to solve our poverty issue. Sure it costs the rate payer money but isnt it nice to see your money being used rather than sitting in the bank or in the pocket of some fat cat.

Im going off the topic alot

Ratty you in the point alot - please could you try get some updated photos for us. Even of the beach with tons of sailors doing their thing - would be greatly appretiated.

[crazyloca]

That was fantastic.... hahahaha

Although I do agree with much of what you say Mr Rat, one cannot take away from what the overall point development has done to the area. I sailed a few races off vetchies before the upgrades began and it was a different world. Do you guys remember what Point Rd used to be? From Addington Hosp right across to Vic Embankment was virtually a no-go zone....

Yes, I agree that the main sailing club should remain within the harbour and from a sailing point of view the SCH is not justified... but that is no reason to attack the other successful projects on the go. The area needs a proper retail section (PnP / Woolworths etc), and then it really can become the CT Waterfront of Durban. This can be achieved with or without the SCH, and either way the success of the area will certainly benefit the clubs. So, I understand (and support) your tussle with the developers etc, but there's no point in generalising or referring to all the other projects / issues that they (developers / Sutcliffe) may be involved in...

[Luf]

^^ agree crazyloca.. agree.

The SCH will/would be awsome but i fully understand where you sailor guys come from - i myself would hate to see your hobby (or as ratty said your lifestyle) forced to change. All i wish for is both parties could sit down peacefully and make things happen. I know its easyer said than done but time is ticking and things have got to get going.

[crazyloca]

^^ agree crazyloca.. agree.

The SCH will/would be awsome but i fully understand where you sailor guys come from - i myself would hate to see your hobby (or as ratty said your lifestyle) forced to change. All i wish for is both parties could sit down peacefully and make things happen. I know its easyer said than done but time is ticking and things have got to get going.

I don't think resistance to the SCH is a hobby-lifestyle thing, its more about cost-benefit / necessity etc etc.
For example, in order to host 2010 we obviously need to upgrade stadia. To be financially viable, the rugby clubs need to play a role in their post 2010 operations. In Cape Town, they decided not to have an athletics track and it seems the WP Rugby will move .... all parties satisfied. The main point is that there was a need for the new stadiums, in order for 2010 to be hosted successfully.

The SCH however, did not arise out of a need for better infrastructure in sailing. In fact sailing was hardly considered! This was an idea to make Durban look like Monaco and Cape Town, but the fundamentals are not in place.

I think Ratty's irritation with Suttcliffe etc is because of the similarities between this and the new stadium. Instead of accepting that either they could have an athletics track OR the support of the rugby unions, they just took both and are trying to use their heavy handed powers to force rugby to comply. This is really not conducive to good relations.

Back to the SCH, the main questions are do we need it, will it be viable in the long run, will it benefit the city/clubs/public etc....
Well currently the sailing infrastructure within the harbour is really good. We all saw the lovely pics from the round the world race a few months back, and no one complained about facilities... for those who didn't see the pics:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=429911&highlight=around+the+world+race&page=4

This is not a 2010 infrastructure situation! Yes, it would be great to give all the clubs a good revamp to keep things in line with the redevelopment going on, and I'm sure they would support any such suggestions. As the clubs have pointed out, the SCH could likely even be damaging to the sport due to its limitations compared to the current clubs facilities and we all know that the natural conditions are not correct to try copy Monaco. I do love to dream, and when I first heard about this idea my eyes also lit up.....

[NORMAN F]

I do not believe for one minute that the SCH will affect sailing in any way, the main clubs The Royal Natal and the Point Yacht Club are both based in the harbor off the Esplanade plus there are the Bluff and Island Sailing Club at the bay head.

The Royal Natal Yacht Club, Bluff and Island Sailing Club will not be part of the Joint Water Sports Club, the only sailing component is a sub section of the Point Yacht Club.

With the above in mind how can anyone even suggest that the SCH will be to the detriment of sailing?

I can envisage sailing on a Saturday tying up at a mooring in the SCH. Partying at one of the restaurants that will spring up in the area or the Joint Water Sports Club. Sleeping on board (no drinking and driving problem) breakfasting ashore and sailing in race on Sunday.

Sailing offshore regularly I know of a handful of boat owners who are waiting for the frontline developments to happen in order to purchase apartments, there are current property owners in the area whose intention is to keep a boat in the SCH when it is developed.

I also believe the commercial aspect of Sailing and Deep Sea Fishing will centre and expand there activities from the SCH.

[NORMAN F]

Norman, who does not take calls? This Colin oke?

How are your two developments coming along?
As you are in the Point area more frequantly than us can you please
give us some feed back on what is happening there? Has anything changed?


You hit the nail on the head I have been trying to get information to use in letters to the editor on the Sunday Tribune from this source with no avail.

The Point is stagnant at the moment, even property under R10 000.00 sq.m that should have sold months ago is being ignored.

Heritage Square is moving forward slowly as the numbers really work. Still a few sales short of the trigger once this is reached we will launch Heritage Quays.

PS Ratty: Your eloquent writing reminds me of the late Cpt.Micky Thomas who always wrote a ditty after each overnight race highlighting the mistakes and dramas of that event. I wish that I had recorded them.

[crazyloca]

I also believe the commercial aspect of Sailing and Deep Sea Fishing will centre and expand there activities from the SCH.

Yes, I agree that the commercial side should benefit significantly....

[666PYC]

I do not believe for one minute that the SCH will affect sailing in any way, the main clubs The Royal Natal and the Point Yacht Club are both based in the harbor off the Esplanade plus there are the Bluff and Island Sailing Club at the bay head.

The Royal Natal Yacht Club, Bluff and Island Sailing Club will not be part of the Joint Water Sports Club, the only sailing component is a sub section of the Point Yacht Club.

With the above in mind how can anyone even suggest that the SCH will be to the detriment of sailing?

Norman F thanks for not disappointing me in completely missing the point again. We are not saying sailing as a howl will be affected by the SCH, Catamaran and dingy sailing off the beach will come to an end if the SCH goes ahead. As you are not involved in any of these disciplines it does not surprise me you are out of touch with the issues. :bash:

[NORMAN F]

Norman F thanks for not disappointing me in completely missing the point again. We are not saying sailing as a howl will be affected by the SCH, Catamaran and dingy sailing off the beach will come to an end if the SCH goes ahead. As you are not involved in any of these disciplines it does not surprise me you are out of touch with the issues. :bash:

:banana:
Please explain to me and others who read this thread why a Soft Launch area for the use of dinghies is shown on all the SCH lay outs. The size of this soft launch area is under discussions between the Clubs and the Point Waterfront.

[666PYC]

:banana:
Please explain to me and others who read this thread why a Soft Launch area for the use of dinghies is shown on all the SCH lay outs. The size of this soft launch area is under discussions between the Clubs and the Point Waterfront.


Norman F I ‘m sorry if I have a combatant attitude towards you its just I have been fighting for the rights of the beach users for the last 5 years. The developers have been dealing with bad faith all along. You try to give the impression that the developer out of the goodness of there hearts gave us a soft launch and club site, no you will be shocked at the shit we have had to put up with to get to where we are to day. The soft launch is only there because of my and Point water sports negotiations with Dr Wijnberg, we designed and modelled many options before coming up with the soft launch in its present position. The drawings you use as your defence where produced by my self. If there was enough time I would love to show you some of the incredible blunders the engineers made in there conceptual designs; through ignorance of the environment they are working in and the requirements of the end user.

Subsequent to our agreement with the developers they came up with the latest layouts presented at the last public meeting which destroys all the work done to this point. The new hotel site and the res. Blocks along the north pier disturb the wind to a point where sailing out of the confined harbour with a Hobie cat is going to be imposable. We have called for a wind study to be done by an independent specialist; to date there has been no response from the developers as with the revised sun study to rectify the embarrassing screw-up they made at the last public meeting. The sun study was just one example of the unprofessional rubbish we have had to put up with.

Norman F I am not Ratty he is an officer and a gentleman with infinite patients, I on the other hand am not. So if I come across as arrogant and confrontational that is because I have come to the end of my patens

[Luf]

^^Thanks for your explanation 666PYC

You say the soft launch is way to small for you guys, How big/long are you fighting for it to be?

[NORMAN F]

I hate to admit it but with the strengh of the prevailing winds at certain times of the year my personal feeling is that I would not lke to live in an apartment on the on the North Pier, They will be far to exposed to the elements. If no development takes place on the North Pier I will not shed any tears and would not personally recomend those sites to any prospective purchaser.

[NORMAN F]

The web site should be running later this week once the re-evaluation of units has been compleated.The larger Loft units have not been mooving these are being changed into smaller less expensive suites to meet the demand.

[666PYC]

“You say the soft launch is way to small for you guys, How big/long are you fighting for it to be?”

“I hate to admit it but with the strengh of the prevailing winds at certain times of the year my personal feeling is that I would not lke to live in an apartment on the on the North Pier, They will be far to exposed to the elements. If no development takes place on the North Pier I will not shed any tears and would not personally recomend those sites to any prospective purchaser.”

Hi guys to answer Luf’s question first, yes and no. The launch site as it is today is approximately 300m and gets congested at certain times of the year. The proposed soft launch is 100m. The difference is at present the beach is used by all the role-players whereas the proposed soft launch will be for non powered craft only. The ski boats will use the slipway. All thou the soft launch has been secured the access to the sea has now been compromised. The 100m is min to run a successful regatta.

Norman F I’m with you. In both cases when the North Easterlies are pumping and when the Westerlies come howling down the back of the bluff the last place I would want to be is in one of those properties. If you open a front window you will get sucked out the back like an aircraft depressurising. Moving air will flow around an object rather than over it due to gravity this will squeeze the air between the building causing an increase in velocity. It’s the turbulence caused in the lee of these buildings that has us to question the feasibility of sailing out of the SCH.

[NORMAN F]

I don’t think that any developer who has ever sailed regularly through the harbor mouth when the Easterly's and Westerly’s are pumping would entertain building on the pier.

I am sure that some of the Penthouse purchasers in the Sails have been disillusioned with the amount of usage they can enjoy from their exposed rooftop Pools and Jacuzzis.

[dysan1]

^^ but then surely the same applies to the amazing beachfront homes in clifton/camps bay and the like?? Its something people put with at times for the views. u have to do a balancing act

[666PYC]

^^ but then surely the same applies to the amazing beachfront homes in clifton/camps bay and the like?? Its something people put with at times for the views. u have to do a balancing act

I cannot comment on those properties but the point has a specific micro climate if I can call it that produced by the proximity to the bluff. The bluff has the same effect as a building would in increasing the wind speed as it tries to go round it instead of over it. The CSIR had a large steel frame at the base of the bluff just opposite the harbour mouth where they monitored paint and galvanising samples for exposure to the elements as this is the most corrosive spot in the country. The proposed flats area about 200m from this spot.

[dysan1]

hope the developers took this into account with the buildings, as rusting in a new unit is not on

[666PYC]

hope the developers took this into account with the buildings, as rusting in a new unit is not on

I don’t believe they have an understanding how corrosive that environment is. I have had 4 galvanised boat trailers rust out from under the boat from sitting in the boat park at the point. There is another problem at the site that happens every autumn; the cane on the south coast is burnt in autumn at about the same time the Weatherly’s start to blow. The fallout from the cane leaves a sticky residue on the rigging and the dust is whipped from the coal terminal at the harbour entrance. The dust sticks to the rigging and traps the salt; even stainless steel has no defence against this. The buildings closest to the harbour entrance are going to be subjected to this. Do you remember how grubby Thirstiest got from this environment?

[Luf]

666PYC if you dont mind me asking, what do you do? Are involved in the enviromental industry?

[NORMAN F]

It is not uncommon for the harbor mouth to experience winds in excess of 25 knots (44 Kph+). As 666PYC comments the funneling effect of the Bluff accelerates these wind speeds, buildings on the pier would in all probability add more velocity.

The draft caused by these conditions when an external door is opened could have serious consequences. Any units built on the pier would probably have to have a double entrance area creating an air lock at the front door. I am not an expert my comments are based from experience living on the beach front observation and common sense.

[Durbsboi]

hope the developers took this into account with the buildings, as rusting in a new unit is not on

you had to bring that up, lol, just stamped through an order for 150 fittings for Point Bay to be changed, they all chowed up, & not 1 tenant has moved in as yet, lol, Im gona kill that Lighting salesman, weather proof my arse!

[Luf]

you had to bring that up, lol, just stamped through an order for 150 fittings for Point Bay to be changed, they all chowed up, & not 1 tenant has moved in as yet, lol, Im gona kill that Lighting salesman, weather proof my arse!

What do you mean mate?

How is Point Bay looking otherwise?

[Durbsboi]

well the 1 type of outdoor fitting we purchased as per request of the architect got rusted so badly that some actualy fell off. So we had to order a new fitting & change them pronto because we handing over 14 flats next week.

Other than that Point bay is looking stunning.

[dysan1]

everything in those developments should be totally rust proof or i would demand the developer redoes my unit

[Durbsboi]

I know, but you know how it go's. We had the same problem at Westbrook with the developer insiting on using his fittings he bought from Bali, it didnt even last 2 weeks.

[NORMAN F]

Wow!! what can one say, The 2008 Olympic Opening Ceremony is a great example of getting it right first time.
I feel sorry for London they have to following that act in 2012.
China certainly raised the bar on opening ceremonies.
What will we do in 2010?

[Lydon]

I think we'll pull off something interesting to be honest. Guess we just need to wait and see!

[666PYC]

I have to report with regret that our old friend and spirited contributor to this thread NORMAN F has past away. I remember him as a tall grey haired gentleman passionate about the part he was playing in the redevelopment of the Point. We will miss his contributions

To: Water Rat
Subject: RE: The Tribune - 27 July 08 ( missed this one whilst away )

Norman Murdey passed away on 18th August.

Many Thanks,
Kind Regards,

Anne Watts

[Pule]

^^ Is this true?

[Luf]

:( It seems true, i phoned up Key Realtors.

I am really sorry to hear this, He was so passionate about the Point Development.

[Lydon]

That's really sad to hear. How unfortunate :(

[ToxicBunny]

He will be sorely missed... :(

His passion and devotion to the Point area were an inspiration.

[Pule]

May his soul rest in peace.

[Luf]

I was in Durban from friday until wednesday. The weather wasnt great, rather cold actually but took a drive to the Point.

Apart from Point Bay, which is now completed and what i could see about 10 flats had furniture in them, nothing much has changed. The area, as always, is looking awsome and i am still very impressed with everything thing.

With regards to Heritage Square, which the late Norman_F was working on,
nothing has changed.

Here is a shot of Point Bay, now completed.

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k359/Lufcus123/Stadiam%20and%20Point%20Bay/IMG_0010.jpg

[Durbsboi]

:( Norman F will be missed, rest in peace buddy

[Durbsboi]

Here is a shot of Point Bay, now completed.

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k359/Lufcus123/Stadiam%20and%20Point%20Bay/IMG_0010.jpg

Not completed yet, still fitting it out. Will try & get some snaps if I got for a site visit.

[romanSA]

This is very sad news. Rest in peace, Norman.

[dysan1]

I have to report with regret that our old friend and spirited contributor to this thread NORMAN F has past away. I remember him as a tall grey haired gentleman passionate about the part he was playing in the redevelopment of the Point. We will miss his contributions

To: Water Rat
Subject: RE: The Tribune - 27 July 08 ( missed this one whilst away )

Norman Murdey passed away on 18th August.

Many Thanks,
Kind Regards,

Anne Watts

Thank you for letting us know. It is deeply sad news and i wish his family comfort through this hard time. He definately was incredibly passionate about the Point and hopefully some of his passion will be carried forward into the developments he was working on.

[dysan1]

Thanx mate, Point Bay looks ALOT better in that picture than i thought of it in renders. Actually real nice!!

[Luf]

Not completed yet, still fitting it out. Will try & get some snaps if I got for a site visit.

Ah ok thought it was finished, looks pretty much done.

You guys heard anything about shops moving in?

I was chatting to what seemed like a site manager at a shop in the Sails and he said they where fitting a fashion bar there. I saw them building a few months back and very little looks different. Any one know if its a Fashion TV bar? To my knowladge Durbs doesnt have one.

[Durbsboi]

No news on the tenants for Point Bay, Woolies food pulled out

[Die Kapenaar]

Mystery project: A threat to Durban's Point?

September 11 2008 at 08:18PM

By Heinz de Boer and Rivonia Naidu

Developers of the prestigious Point Development Project have rubbished opinions that the mysterious new project on the Water World site could scuttle their ambitious sales plans and again plunge the Point into obscurity.

Durban Point Development Company marketing and sales manager, Colin Sher, on Wednesday said he was not concerned about a new luxury apartment project that has apparently been earmarked for the vacant site adjacent to the Suncoast Casino complex, saying any coastal upgrades could only be good for the city.

Sher was responding to concerns from the Democratic Alliance, which has called for the city and Suncoast (Tsogo Sun) to play open cards with the public and councillors.





Both city manager, Michael Sutcliffe, eThekwini's strategic projects unit head Julie-May Ellingson, and Suncoast executive director Mike Dowsley have refused to disclose what is being planned.

"We are at two different book ends," Sher said. "The northern one is Suncoast and we are the other. We do not see any development there as competition.

Rather we believe that where there are upgrades to the beachfront from the north to the south, the better it is for all of us."

DA caucus leader John Steenhuisen said there were strong indications that the Suncoast site would shift investor interests away from the Point.

He has also questioned secrecy over the new project, saying he had credible information that high rise luxury apartments, similar to those on the Point, were in the pipeline.

But the council's insistence that the project would have to incorporate some form of social housing has been the stumbling block in negotiations.

"My concern is that we would not want to undermine the Point sales campaign. A lot has already been invested there and units are simply not moving. Then there are the concerns about access, crime and the uncertainty over the small craft harbour," Steenhuisen said.

"Once the new development opens in a far more desirable location, we could see sales being seriously undermined in the Point."

Dowsley has refused to be drawn on the matter.

Premature

"The long-term future of the old Water World site is currently in its proposal stage. It is premature to comment on the outcome of these proposals," he said.

In July 2002, the Integrated Development Plan for the R1,4-billion Suncoast Casino Development said the developments would include a R884-million casino, together with food and beverage facilities, a R130-million cinema complex, children's entertainment facility, and restaurants, as well as a three star hotel, and a high adrenalin ride theme park adjoining the Water World Development.

While the casino, cinema, restaurants, children's entertainment facility and hotel were completed, plans for the theme park was scrapped.

While council has promised a progress report on amendments to the IDP within the next three months, Steenhuisen was certain negotiations were at an advanced stage.

"They've already started demolishing Water World, so surely they have finalised plans for the area," he said.


This article was originally published on page 5 of Daily News on September 11, 2008

[dysan1]

No news on the tenants for Point Bay, Woolies food pulled out

not surprised. there needs to be a more concerted effort to get people in

[Luf]

not surprised. there needs to be a more concerted effort to get people in

Well no one even knows the Point exists. The advertising/marketing team completely suck. You never hear of anything regarding the Point. I have attempted to email them regarding this but their email address dont work any more and telephones just ring and ring.

shucks i really dont know/understand whats happening with the Point anymore - my fav. development in SA.

[dysan1]

Well to be fair to them it is the building managements job to get tenants into the retail spots. And to be fair to them, until you are walking around a cohesive area that is not overrun with construction, not many tenants will be keen to move in.

Yes the DPDC do a shocking job. Its running has been handed about. Starting with Moreland, then a new upstart to a company run almost solely by Neels Brink now.

I dont think their experience is something to rave about, hence the lack lustre approach to communication

[Durbsboi]

http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_HD2.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_HD1.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_100a.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_124.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_119.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_120.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_122.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_118.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_115.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_117.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_108.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_069.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_080.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_087.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_086.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_092.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_091.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_053.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_041.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_032.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_028.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_026.jpg
http://www.pixmanimages.co.za/Aerial%20shots/5%20Sept%202008/DHEW05092008_011.jpg

[Pule]

Lovely collection thanks DB, to me the point is looking much more better than it was the last time I was there. When will the construction of the new mall start?

[GregPz]

Fantastic pics DB!! I haven't been down there in ages.

[dysan1]

Fantastic pics DB!! I haven't been down there in ages.

fantastic pics! and they fully support my earlier comment. its still a big construction site, i dont see retail succeeding just yet until the massive levels of building subside a bit and move to the newer areas of the point.

[GregPz]

Yeah it does still look like a building site. Surely it would help to release more plots, otherwise it's going to take forever to be truely appealing. And of course the small carft harbour issue needs to be sorted out...

[Caisson Boy]

Is this the waterfront that is supposedly going to be 22 times the size of the V&A Waterfront in Cape Town? Better start cracking then, because it ain't looking too booming at the moment...

[Durbsboi]

hold ur horses Mr Kaapstad, let the widening finish off. Whats more important? Rich monkeys holiday pads or a more suitable entrance to the harbour to accomodate bigger vessels?

[water rat]

hold ur horses Mr Kaapstad, let the widening finish off. Whats more important? Rich monkeys holiday pads or a more suitable entrance to the harbour to accomodate bigger vessels?

a bit of a mess really - since embarking on the multi million ( billion ? ) rand harbour widening project TNPA ( Transnet ) cancelled the plans to extend the container terminal. without this expansion we dont need the wider port.....

second problem is that a whole whack of real estate has been eaten up in the process .......

what is the net benifit to Durban :ohno:?

[Caisson Boy]

Mr Kaapstad

:lol:

[Luf]

hold ur horses Mr Kaapstad, let the widening finish off. Whats more important? Rich monkeys holiday pads or a more suitable entrance to the harbour to accomodate bigger vessels?

Mate i believe both could of been done at the same time.

With regards to no retail moving is due to the area being underconstruction, i just dont know if i believe that is the reason. It is just poor marketing and in a way a catch 22 situation.

I for one would not move into the area due to there being no retail and I for one would not open any retail because there is not enough people in the area.

An aggressive marketing campaign can only be benificial for everyone involved there, yet no one even knows whats happening at the Point. On talking to a PWR agent last time i was up there, she suggested that no retail was moving in because there was very little information avalible about the area. Neel Brinks and his team never bother picking up the phone and replying to emails let alone up date their website.

A quick search on the internet suggests that there is no retail space avaliable in the area, no estate agents have retail listed. I just find it weird when comparing it to other developments where alot of hype is made and constant news are provided.

BTW thanks durbs for the photos. Awsome stuff mate.

[dysan1]

a bit of a mess really - since embarking on the multi million ( billion ? ) rand harbour widening project TNPA ( Transnet ) cancelled the plans to extend the container terminal. without this expansion we dont need the wider port.....

second problem is that a whole whack of real estate has been eaten up in the process .......

what is the net benifit to Durban :ohno:?

They have not cancelled container terminal plans, they are reassessing the best options of achieving it. The bayhead dugout would be a R25billion plus development, you need to check everything before going for that. They also have the option of higher stacking (which they are now doing) and remote assembly points (which they doing) which speed up processes for quicker turnaround and less containers in the port. Also they improving rail links, which in the long run is also very important.

And we need the wider entrance for safety reasons, it was too narrow for most ships and it was a matter of time before something terrible happened.

[Luf]

And we need the wider entrance for safety reasons, it was too narrow for most ships and it was a matter of time before something terrible happened.

I never really got up close to it but it did seem quite narrow, the big ships just fitted it seemed.

[water rat]

I never really got up close to it but it did seem quite narrow, the big ships just fitted it seemed.

Unfortunately the experts dont agree. Yes the entrance needed to be deeper. But being wider does not necessarily make it safer.

The following from one of the most experienced pilots in the country may give you another perspective ....

quote

I would like to convey my concerns that the ultra widening of the Harbour Entrance could be supported by marine pilots that have not experienced the various weather and current flow conditions that will affect the safe mooring of vessels within Durban Harbour itself.

On many occasions with only modest size vessels at the Bluff, A Berth and Island View weather conditions made these berths a challenge with the existing channel width, let alone the planned new width.

I accept some arguments on paper that entrance channels must be of a minimum width for super large vessels, but yes for entrance channels of three times the Dbn harbour lengths.
I am also of the opinion that the extra extra width will NOT improve the general year round shipping approaches into and within Dbn Harbour...

You are aware that my 18 years as a senior pilot in Durban and some 9000 large vessel entries allows me some air time to voice my concerns for the long term successful safe business operations of Durban Harbour.

The thought that a wider channel will allow ships to pass in the channel will certainly not reduce turn round time at container berths, we went through that exercise about 1980 and your files will also reveal the extensive testing we did with the Shell Tanker about 1970 and the big whites ( Safmarine container ships ) about 1980. I believe that deepening is necessary and would be an advantage to reduce slewing. I am also not privy to the reduced surface area flow effects in the entrance with the various reclamations that have been done within the harbour itself.

In conclusion from my outside view, I trust that the advantages have been balanced against the disadvantages before the costly delays to efficient safe ship handling is not placed on the Marine Pilots shoulders in years to come.

unquote

Anyway the money has been spent and the land is lost forever.In years to come the magnitude of this error will manifest itself.

[Durbsboi]

Mate i believe both could of been done at the same time.

With regards to no retail moving is due to the area being underconstruction, i just dont know if i believe that is the reason. It is just poor marketing and in a way a catch 22 situation.

I for one would not move into the area due to there being no retail and I for one would not open any retail because there is not enough people in the area.

An aggressive marketing campaign can only be benificial for everyone involved there, yet no one even knows whats happening at the Point. On talking to a PWR agent last time i was up there, she suggested that no retail was moving in because there was very little information avalible about the area. Neel Brinks and his team never bother picking up the phone and replying to emails let alone up date their website.

A quick search on the internet suggests that there is no retail space avaliable in the area, no estate agents have retail listed. I just find it weird when comparing it to other developments where alot of hype is made and constant news are provided.

BTW thanks durbs for the photos. Awsome stuff mate.

Well in all honestly I would rather them finish of the widening project before getting people into the Point. I visited Point Bay the other week & the amount of dust & dirt caused by that widening is hectic. So if the guys at the point try to market the area now by giving tours, it obviously wont go down well with everyone. Although this project is being going on for some years now, I still believe once all the main aspects to the area are completed, ie. Canals, roads & the harbour entrance are completed, it will be the ideal time to get investors in.

Also with the completed projects like, The sails, Spinaker, Point Bay & others all of which have 80% occupancy or higher, there will be a need for retailers to move in & serve the needs of the residents. They cant eat out at Ushaka every night ;)

[dysan1]

everyone is entitled to their opinion on the widening and there will always be opposing views on these matters.

[Pule]

When will the widening be completed.

[water rat]

When will the widening be completed.

i think 2011.

[Pule]

Thanx WR.

[Durbsboi]

pics from Pule

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/Puzela/P1110883.jpg

This is Dolphin Whispers? well, its the one thats deemed unsafe.
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/Puzela/P1110878.jpg

Jeromes flat, lol

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g160/amgosai/Puzela/P1110871.jpg

[Luf]

Thanks. Pule, why cant you post your own pics mate?

I see those two big houses in the bottem pictures are finally being finished, i wonder what the hold up was about, they much be worth a fortune if those houses in dockpoint were going for 3mil.

Guys what was wrong with the Dolphin Whispers? I know nothing about engeneering so i have been wondering. Whats the solution, tear it down and start from scratch, surely not?

[Pule]

Because I don't have access to photo sites were I'm currently working and that's why I send them to DB.

[dysan1]

Thanks. Pule, why cant you post your own pics mate?

I see those two big houses in the bottem pictures are finally being finished, i wonder what the hold up was about, they much be worth a fortune if those houses in dockpoint were going for 3mil.

Guys what was wrong with the Dolphin Whispers? I know nothing about engeneering so i have been wondering. Whats the solution, tear it down and start from scratch, surely not?

They can fix it and get it to stand properly without tearing it down. Ithala is also continuing to finance it and it will be completed, when though is not something i can answer

[Luf]

^^ Thanks dysan1.. Interesting. A pitty it had to be this way as it is smack in the middle of the Point.

[romanSA]

Also, 'something' seems to be happenning with the Stevedore's site (end of 1st pic in DB's last post). When I left SA 3 weeks ago, they were tearing down the roof rafters. Looks like they are more or less done, from what I can see in that pic.

[Luf]

mmm why are they so secretive about everything there. Pule, did you see any new boards up? Hows Heritage Square coming along?

[dysan1]

There were boards up fro a development called Harbour Point. Its a 4/5F commercial development of 6000m2

[Pule]

mmm why are they so secretive about everything there. Pule, did you see any new boards up? Hows Heritage Square coming along?

Sorry buddy, I honestly didn't get deeper as I shot those from a distance because we were now on our way back to Jozi. But hey, if I had money, I would buy one papartment in the point.

[Luf]

no worries mate, yeah would also buy there! Such an awsome project. I just want to see more buildings up now. Damn property market;)

[Pule]

My favourate is the dock point.

[p2bsa]

^^
Dock Point was part developed by the founder of Durban-based JSE listed, ARB Holdings (electrical suppliers); and Chalupsky Properties (Dusi Canoe Marathon fame)...

[666PYC]

Just what was the Point?
November 09, 2008 Edition 1
Jani Meyer

'MUCH ado about nothing" is how a bemused guest described the proceedings of the Durban Point Development Company's "official launch". It was widely accepted that the final phase of the multi billion-rand Point Waterfront Development Project was to be set in motion. But instead it turned into a rehash of the first two phases of the development. Developers, investors and other stakeholders were convinced that Dr Zweli Mkhize, MEC of Finance and Economic Development in KwaZulu-Natal, would give the green light for the building of the small craft harbour - the third phase of the project. However, he said it could take weeks or even months for the Record of Decision to be finalised. Khulekani Ntshangase, the spokesman for Mtholephi Mthimkhulu, MEC for the Department of Agriculture and Environmental Affairs, said he was under the impression that the project had been approved. "I have to say I expected a public announcement and that arrangements had been made to place an advertisement for anyone who wants to appeal the Record of Decision." In the launch presentation Mkhize said he had been assured by his colleague, (Mthimkhulu), that the Durban Point Development Company application was receiving priority attention and that a decision could be expected within the next few months. Mkhize said that 10 years ago the Point Waterfront had been "teeming with slums" - a prime example of inner city urban decay. "Despite many attempts, none of the projects materialised, while cities like Cape Town have forged ahead with world-class development projects and tourist attractions such as the V & A Waterfront. It was only in 2000 that the project got off the ground."
He said together with the construction of the R7 billion Dube Trade Port, the R2.8 billion Moses Mabhida stadium, and the R1.8 billion project by Transnet to widen Durban's harbour, the Point Waterfront was part of the eThekwini Municipality's efforts at becoming one of the leading growth points in the country. "Increased investment in infrastructure leads to a boom in the construction sector, a priority because of its immense job-creation potential and the impact it has on our economy," Mkhize said. The Durban Point Development Company had earmarked R800 million in additional infrastructure investment for the small craft harbour. "The whole Durban Point Waterfront, once complete, will increase the municipality's rates base by between R80 million and R100 million a year," Mkhize said. However, while VIPs seemed upbeat, some developers and investors were visibly, and audibly, disappointed when Mkhize said the completion of the environmental impact assessment process and the issuing of the Record of Decision were by nature complicated and time-consuming considering the number of stakeholders who needed to be consulted. DA eThekwini Caucus leader, Cllr John Steenhuisen said he was also surprised that an announcement hadn't been made about the next phase. "It was a great presentation, but nothing we had not seen before," he said.

Project has lost as much as R500m
November 09, 2008 Edition 1
Tribune Reporter
The ANC-controlled eThekwini Municipality (Durban) is simply not qualified to act as a 50% shareholder in the Point redevelopment scheme. That is the belief of the IFP's spokesman on Economic Planning and Finance, Alex Hamilton, a former president of the Durban Chamber of Industry. In his view the project has lost as much as R500 million in potential income that would have been generated had "qualified business practice and professional diligence" been applied. Hamilton also queried what the city was doing to act on their oft-stated plans of regenerating the Durban beachfront as a whole, citing the filth and insecurity of Point Road. "Frankly, this loss of income over the past two years can largely be placed at the door of the city's procrastination and ignorance of business dynamics," said Hamilton. Durban businessman and director of a major development company at the Point, Jeremy Thorpe, supported Hamilton, saying that the Point project had been "a storybook vision handled with kindergarten application". Thorpe said the city had shown a complete lack of maturity and a woeful shortage of business acumen. "Developers have spent billions at the Point only to be left high and dry, relying on a highly questionable Environmental Impact Assessment for its future viability. How on earth can you initiate a project of this size and potential for the future of the city and then allow it to hibernate for more than two years?" he said. Thorpe also questioned the integrity of promising a small craft harbour, a crucial component of the entire development. "Early developers bought property there in the belief the small craft harbour was a fait accompli. It later turned out to be anything but a development certainty."Hamilton said the IFP had long since claimed that the amount of money lost in rateable income, further property sales and development opportunities at the Point was "huge". "Aside from the ongoing cost to the ratepayer of continuing to subsidise uShaka Marine World, I estimate that the two-year hiatus with the Point development has resulted in losses of up to R400 million in potential sales and probably a R3 billion loss in investment opportunities." Loss of rates for this period, Hamilton said, could have amounted to about R100 million. In the meantime, he said, two hotels could have been built as well as the long overdue shopping centre at the Point. "These were all geared towards creating the crucial human traffic component that will make the Point viable - as well as uShaka Marine World, for that matter." Aside from these losses, Hamilton further lamented the "blatant reneging" on promises made by the city that Mahatma Gandhi (Point) Road would be cleaned up and would itself become the focus of a complete upgrade. "It's extraordinary that so little has been done. Rebates to owners of those dilapidated buildings in order for them to redirect funds into upgrading the properties have been talked about but it has not happened." If the Durban beachfront were to receive a "complete upgrade" then why didn't the city use its urban regeneration arm iTrump more effectively, he asked. "They have the power to expropriate buildings and there are enough of these that could be targeted on the


Point water sports clubs agree terms with city
November 07, 2008 Edition 2
FRONT PAGE
Colleen Dardagan
AFTER 15 years of haggling, Durban's Point water sports clubs have agreed with developers on their future as negotiations are under way with the city for a R30 million loan to build new club facilities.Point Yacht Club commodore Campbell Alexander, who was at a Durban Point Development Company function, ostensibly to announce the completion of the small craft harbour environmental assessment process yesterday, said an agreement reached with the city and the developer brought much needed clarity to the water sport fraternity at Vetch's beach. "This means at least the Durban Ski Boat Club, Durban Undersea Club, the Durban Paddle-Ski Club and the Point Yacht Club, which merged their beach site facilities to form the Point Watersports Club, know where they stand now. "These clubs haven't had security of tenure at Vetch's for the past 15 years. The developer has agreed, regardless of whether or not the small craft harbour goes ahead, that they will be accommodated down there. They are being squeezed on to a much smaller piece of land, but at least there is assurance they will have a permanent home on what is a unique piece of coast," he said. Hilton Kidger, commodore of the Durban Ski Boat Club, confirmed that negotiations were under way for a loan from the city. "We are busy negotiating with the city for a R30 million interest-free loan, repayable over 30 years, to build a new clubhouse on 4 500m² in the corner of the new north pier in the proposed small craft harbour."Alexander said if the harbour was not approved, the money would be used to build a new facility as part of a general upgrade. "Eventually the existing clubhouse will be demolished. But we are excited at the prospect of building a long overdue new facility." The agreement will be renegotiated if the funding is not available. Kidger said the development of the small craft facility seemed inevitable. "We have always been opposed to the building of the small craft harbour, but Durban has to sort itself out and if this is what is needed then that's what we must do. However, I would think they have to clean up the squalor around here before this development will take off." Once construction gets under way, the water sports clubs will occupy the current Point Yacht Club/Durban Undersea Club facilities for an interim period. The head of strategic projects at the eThekwini Municipality, Julie-May Ellingson, said the agreement ensured the city fulfilled its mandate to accommodate water sports. Neels Brink, of the Point Development Company, who gave a detailed presentation on the new craft harbour, said the plans accommodated the different water sports.

Jazz band there for non-launch
Point marina approval stalls
November 07, 2008 Edition 1
PAGE 3
Tony Carnie
FINAL approval for a multibillion-rand yacht marina and five-star hotel at the Durban Point is unresolved, despite a lavish "official launch" reception yesterday for some of the province's top officials, politicians, businessmen and property developers. The Durban Point Development Company erected a large white marquee at Timeball Square, wining and dining guests and the media with a three-course meal and performances by a jazz band. It was expected the occasion would be used to announce the approval of the environmental impact assessment (EIA) process for "Phase 2" of the Point development project - despite conflicting reports from project opponents that the provincial environmental affairs department had refused to authorise it. But finance and economic affairs MEC Zweli Mkhize conceded that environmental authorisation for the most controversial phase of the R2.3 billion project was still unresolved and that a final decision would probably be made "in the next few weeks, or months" by environmental affairs MEC Mtholephi Mthimkhulu.
The development proposal has been the subject of heated public debate for several years, mainly because of a variety of concerns by the Durban watersport community and members of the public about the transformation of a popular public beach and leisure facility into a highly commercialised residential and retail property development. Early last year, a formal request for environmental approval was submitted to Mthimkhulu's department, but the process stalled in July 2007 when the department raised several concerns, including the alienation of state-owned land for private development, the erosion of public amenities and whether adequate space would be provided for the watersport community. It is also believed that the national environmental affairs department has raised concerns over whether the development is in harmony with the newly passed Integrated Coastal Management Bill. The Bill, which aims to protect the integrity of coastal landscapes and seascapes, has been approved by the National Assembly and National Council of Provinces, but has not been signed into law yet by President Kgalema Motlanthe.
Asked to comment on whether the function was planned originally to announce the go-ahead for a small-craft harbour and allied developments, project director Neels Brink, of Laurusco Developments, did not respond directly, but said that the wording on the invitation might have caused some confusion.
He also declined to comment on reports that the development company was now planning to lease, rather than buy, a section of the Indian Ocean alongside Vetch's Pier from the Transnet group.
However, Brink, deputy mayor Logie Naidoo and MEC Mkhize all used the opportunity to repeat their enthusiastic support for the project.
Naidoo said the addition of a small-craft harbour, a five-star, 24-storey hotel and other commercial developments would transform Durban into a world-class coastal city comparable with Dubai, San Francisco or Sydney.
Brink said the planners had gone to great lengths to ensure that the development was "extremely accessible" to the public, after criticism that the public would be excluded.
Mkhize said: "This project serves as a showcase of what can be achieved when the efforts of government are married with those of the private sector to bring development to our city, our province and the whole southern Africa region."
Johnny Vassilaros, chairman of the Durban Paddle Ski Club and a vocal critic of the development, who was not invited to the launch, said last night he had heard that attempts were being made to put political pressure on Mthimkhulu's department to authorise the project.
"We are being kept in the dark and we are alarmed that negotiations seem to be taking place behind the scenes."

[Luf]

Hey guys, an update of Heritage Quays: Construction to start in March/April 2009 and be complete in Dec 2009/Jan 2010.
With regards to Heritage Square, Apparently the the sale agreements are sitting at Investic as they are looking over it still and Construction will start in Jan/Feb 2009 - this date is continuely being pushed back.

Below is Heritage Quays:


http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k359/Lufcus123/Quay_014copy.jpg

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k359/Lufcus123/untitled.jpg

[dysan1]

The Point watersports club - joint clubhouse design proposal

http://www.dzmspace.co.za/images/spec10.jpg

[GregPz]

^^ What an improvement!

[romanSA]

Stunner! I love it. Fits in wth the modern designs from the precinct.

[ToxicBunny]

That would be brilliant... it would look v v impressive.

[Luf]

very very very nice!!

@Ratty your opinion mate?

[Durbsboi]

looks good

[water rat]

very very very nice!!

@Ratty your opinion mate?

nice on paper. however the reality of the clubs' situations may have a big influence to play. The Point Yacht Club ( one of the members of the PWC ) also has a club house on the esplanade. However their lease runs on a month to month basis. This club hosts the keel boat and dingy sailors. If they have to relocate from the Esplanade site to a new one in the vicinity of the esplenade marina, they will be faced with having to build 2 new club houses ie:

one at the marina and share in the building of the one at the point.

In this case i am not sure how many members will be able to afford the increased subs to pay for all of this development. Sure, everyone understands that they have to pay their way - it is the quantum that may be problematic......

[Luf]

thanks mate, what are the chance of them having to move from their club house on the Esplanade?

Have you got any information for us regarding the the situation with the clubs or any changes happening?

[water rat]

thanks mate, what are the chance of them having to move from their club house on the Esplanade?

Have you got any information for us regarding the the situation with the clubs or any changes happening?

all i know is that the matter is under negotiation.......

[fully-bru]

guys i hit a flipping cool cocktail bar down here on sat nite. Its called Fetish and its fully cool. 2 floors overlooking the canals. not much else around it now, but told two restaurants are opening soon. would be kif spot for afternoon drinks

[Durbsboi]

which building is it in?

[dysan1]

Its in the Sails. Went there yesterday and going back tomorrow, its real cool.

[romanSA]

Looks like one of the prime New Years eve parties will be at the Point. Will be good exposure for the area as most Durbanites don't even know it exists!

-----------------

New Years Eve Beach Party

New Years Eve on the Beach, from 3pm till sunrise, with Coco Loco, Ready D and the best of the rest in Durban.

New Years Eve is everyone's favorite time of the year, even the avid couch potato ventures out for a night on the town - or in this case the beach. Parties during the year, never quite capture the electric atmosphere of the night.

Stepping onto the beach at the Beach Club you will have no doubt that Durban has some of the best beaches in the world. The Beach Club is situated literally one step off the beach and is the perfect venue to bring in the New Year. We will be providing extra marquees in case of the traditional late afternoon shower, including a marquee on the roof for VIPs.

We passionately support the campaign for NO Fireworks this year by having a NYE Bonfire instead. We will also be making a donation to the SPCA to help with animals affected by fireworks, and encourage every animal lover to do the same.

A kicker sound system just wouldn't be the same without some kicker DJs. As far as House music goes you won't find someone more groundbreaking then DJ Coco Loco. Having recently returned from playing at Ministry and Pacha in London, he is representing Durban on a global platform these days. He will be joined by Green Junior, Agent K, Garuni, Funky G, Rod, DJM and the original crash nightclub DJs Mimi and Gavin.
As far as Hip Hop goes I just never get tired of Ready D, SA's number one Hip Hop DJ.

Your safety is very important to us so we will have tight security in the venue and around the venue as well as the inter-leading streets. We will work closely with local authorities and The Point Waterfront Committee who has done a fantastic job of making this a crime free zone. I think it has something to do with all the CCTV cameras.

We are going to kick off at about 3 in the afternoon so get down there early, get your parking spot and start your new years eve with your first sundowner. If you're keen to make up a five person volley ball team then drop us a mail at info@mrwhite.co.za.

Cash Bars will be run by the Mr Cocorozis crew in the Marquee's and inside the venue, so no drinks will be allowed to be brought into the venue.

For those of you coming in from out of town don't forget to book your flights and accommodation ASAP. You can contact Tara from Flight Centre on 031 2799606 who books all our DJs Flights, accommodation and car hire needs.

Tickets will be on sale from the 25th of November at Computicket and Idols Musgrave and Pavilion. The FIRST 100 TICKETS at all outlets will go for ONLY R100.
After that they will be R120 presale, and then R150 at the door.

VIP Tickets R300
• Private Rooftop area with marquee covering.
• Private bar.
• Snack Platters during the evening.
• Champagne at New Years Eve.
• Mixed Cd From Agent K.

Competition - WIN! WIN! WIN! WIN!
Enter online at www.mrwhite.co.za and you could win yourself 4 VIP tickets and a R500 bar tab for the evening. You can also get maps, DJ Profiles and directions online

Venue

Date: 31 December 2008 to 01 January 2009
Location: Beach Club, Durban

Cost: Early Bird R100 / Standard R120 / VIP R300
More info: Situated next to Ushaka Marine World at the awesome Point Waterfront Development. One step off the beach.
Turn left into Browns Road from Point Rd.

Contact: Chad
Company name: Mr White Productions
Telephone number: +27 82 853 5097
Email address info@mrwhite.co.za

http://www.bizcommunity.com/Event/196/40/14062.html

[Luf]

So the Bar finally opened, awsome stuff! What type of crowed is it, people from the Point area or people from the surrounding CBD? Please try get some pictures for us!

[dysan1]

^^ its really upmarket, kinda filled with the yuppy me me crowd of umhlanga and morningside. Only pics i got have mates in them, so i'll get some others another time. They have top DJ's from all over every fri and sat nite

[romanSA]

Four good things to report on:

1. I walked past the new cocktail bar in the Sails yesterday afternoon. While it was closed, it looks very upmarket (nice interior, double storey), and has a fantastic location (it opens out to the canal). It is sure to prove a hit (well, in its initial days anyway, once the public becomes more aware of it. However, Durban crowds are notoriously fickle so you never know).

2. A lot of progress has been made on the Stevedores development since our last update. The roofs have been totally stripped, and new window and door frames have been cut into the walls. I spoke to someone on site yesterday and he told me that work should be completed in the next 6-8 months. It will also not be going any higher and will comprise a mix between office, retail, and residential. Phase 2 will commence later this year (on the half of the development that's closer to the Ushaka parking lot end). He also told me that work is imminent on the Heritage developments (he told me he was the one who sold the sites). However, I will believe the latter claim only when I see crews on site.

3. The long-awaited bar at the end of the pier at Ushaka is immiment. Bar bridges have been installed and lounge chairs /beds installed. It looks great and needless to say, that location is absolutely amazing. It feels like you're on a ship. The set-up is only temporary as construction of a permanent (possibly enclosed) bar will commence in a few months.

4. Temp structures have been erected alongside the road leading to Point Bastille (and where the final phase of the canal will be constructed) for the waterclubs in anticipation of their temp relocation if the small craft harbour gets the go-ahead. the environmentalimpact assessment report on the harbour is apparently due in the next few months (rumours are by March 2009).

[Durbsboi]

wait......they working at Stevedores? why the f*ck werent we informed!

[romanSA]

I was wondering why you weren't updating us. DB, try and find out more about the plans and share with us. There's about 5 workers on site now doing mainly low-level work, but there has definitely been visible progress.

[dysan1]

Four good things to report on:

1. I walked past the new cocktail bar in the Sails yesterday afternoon. While it was closed, it looks very upmarket (nice interior, double storey), and has a fantastic location (it opens out to the canal). It is sure to prove a hit (well, in its initial days anyway, once the public becomes more aware of it. However, Durban crowds are notoriously fickle so you never know).

Yeah it doesnt seem to open on sundays. I only been on a evening on weekend, so i dont know if open during week yet. Sis's mate is running it so will chat to find out more

2. A lot of progress has been made on the Stevedores development since our last update. The roofs have been totally stripped, and new window and door frames have been cut into the walls. I spoke to someone on site yesterday and he told me that work should be completed in the next 6-8 months. It will also not be going any higher and will comprise a mix between office, retail, and residential. Phase 2 will commence later this year (on the half of the development that's closer to the Ushaka parking lot end). He also told me that work is imminent on the Heritage developments (he told me he was the one who sold the sites). However, I will believe the latter claim only when I see crews on site.

Nice to hear, this one has been dragging along (like most others not built yet in the area). I really liked the stevedores concept. DB big us more info man!

And the heritage hotel would have been a great addtion for the WC, i doubt it will be up and running by then now tho

3. The long-awaited bar at the end of the pier at Ushaka is immiment. Bar bridges have been installed and lounge chairs /beds installed. It looks great and needless to say, that location is absolutely amazing. It feels like you're on a ship. The set-up is only temporary as construction of a permanent (possibly enclosed) bar will commence in a few months.

loving this, the initial designs i saw for the glass structure were impressive to say the least. the permission to get this built has taken a long time, but i reckon will be worth it in the end! super setting over the ocean. J man gotta get some drinks there

4. Temp structures have been erected alongside the road leading to Point Bastille (and where the final phase of the canal will be constructed) for the waterclubs in anticipation of their temp relocation if the small craft harbour gets the go-ahead. the environmentalimpact assessment report on the harbour is apparently due in the next few months (rumours are by March 2009).

Thats good news. the next land releases towards the ocean will be great, but obviously a decision (+ or - is needed soon)

[romanSA]

Here's confirmation of the glass bar concept at Moyos. Will be a fantastic and iconic addition for the area, and I am confident it will get the necessary approval....

---------------------------------

Moyo moots multi-million rand glass cocktail bar for uShaka Pier

DURBAN’S landmark uShaka Marine World is set to boast a distinctive glass-encased cocktail bar that will also include alfresco dinning in a multi-million rand development on the uShaka Pier.

The ambitious plan, mooted by the enigmatic entrepreneur behind the moyo restaurant chain, Jason Lurie, is awaiting approval from the relevant authorities.

The development is part of an expansion of the current moyo restaurant at uShaka. According to Lurie, together with the original restaurant, it will represent an investment of more than R20 million.

“This will be a one-of-a-kind development in South Africa and possibly the continent, even globally. It is going to be another attraction for uShaka and bolster moyo’s uniqueness as the continent’s leading trendy African-inspired eating experience,” said Lurie.

The pier plan has been on the cards as an idea ever since he first secured the prime moyo site at the theme-park - a double-volume space that overlooks uShaka Beach and strategically opens out directly in front of the pier.

The moyo outlet at uShaka opened in 2007 and in this past December holidays has offered alfresco dining over the pier as an “appetiser” in anticipation of the development.

“Concept plans have been in the pipeline for a while, together with applications to get all the relevant environmental and other approvals. Only after we get all those approvals will we finalise the plans which |will incorporate the requirements |to make our concept become a reality,” said Lurie.

The planned multi-million expansion at moyo in uShaka also comes in the wake of Lurie’s growing restaurant business securing some R25 million from Mark Shuttleworth’s venture capital company - Here Be Dragons (HBD) - in September 2007.

The Durban extension is part of a broader expansion plan to open and invest in new moyo outlets in the most unique locations in South Africa and to possibly even take the entire moyo concept to strategic locations in Europe, America and even Asia.

Lurie also plans to extend the moyo brand with separate moyo |retail stores. He also plans to open boutique hotels in the hospitality |industry under the moyo name.

“Shuttleworth is one of South Africa’s icons and inspirational entrepreneurs, so the venture capital funding from one of his company’s is something big for us.

“It’s is not just funding, that’s just one part. To even be associated with something linked to him is huge - so there are also big branding opportunities with two positive and leading South African brands venturing into a partnership with international ambitions,” said Lurie.

“We will be growing together, but we are not rushing into things as can be seen by the fact that it has been more than a year since HBD has come on board. They have brought a lot of financial and corporate governance experience to the moyo business and this is mainly what we focussed on during the past year,” he said.

“We all know about the international financial crisis and its impact on the global and our own economies, so our vision to take moyo globally has now been made a little more difficult, but we have to plan long term,” said Lurie.

“While we are looking at locations like Chicago and New York in the US, and obviously London as well as some German cities, it also depends where the demand comes from. Asian and Middle-eastern countries like China, Japan and the Emirates are demand locations.

“We would like to at least have secured a few sites and partners in international locations before the |Fifa 2010 World Cup in South |Africa because our country and the soccer event will be on everyone’s lips,” he said.

“From a local perspective we have also had an introspective look at the business and all our operations, as well as new locations. Our aim is to have a moyo outlet in the major host cities and hotspots for the World Cup.

“Durban is certainly one of them, boasting the warmest weather in winter in South Africa and that’s smack bang in the middle of the World Cup. The beachfront and uShaka are going to be hotspots in the city during the event and I am glad the city has identified and is focusing on these areas.”

Commenting on moyo’s uShaka Pier plan, eThekwini Deputy |Mayor, Logie Naidoo, said while |he welcomed the cutting-edge development, the plans would first have |to go through the normal approval processes.
“I am well aware of this proposed development and, apart from the |approval processes, this is a spectacular project for the city and uShaka,” said Naidoo, who is also acting chairman of the Durban Point Development Company.

“Projects like these are what’s needed to add to Durban’s tourism and hospitality profile, and they also boost the economy. The moyo development will help put the city in good stead in the run-up to the 2010 Fifa World Cup. It will show the world what we are capable of and showcase world-class experiences and innovation,” he said.

Lurie agreed with Naidoo’s view of changing global perceptions about South Africa and the continent through the World Cup.

“For me, that’s what moyo was always about. Showing off the best of ‘Afrochic’ and taking it to the world. It’s about changing the ‘begging bowl’ and ‘undeveloped dark Africa’ perceptions with world-class African images, innovations and brands.”

“It is all about creating a positive, modern and sophisticated African brand. The name moyo - which is a loose translation of the Swahili word for soul - is a business which offers a truly unique African experience that draws local and foreign tourists,” he said.

Lurie and his diverse team had grown the highly successful contemporary African food, art, music and culture business to six outlets across South Africa. The latest moyo outlet is in Pretoria and another is planned for Cape Town.

http://www.travelwires.com/wp/?p=3602

[dysan1]

They have plans for a few additional rides to open at the waterpark and an extension to the aquarium offering

[Pule]

^^ that will be nice. Discover Africa was showcasing Durbs yesterday and boy that was one good tourism attracting 1 hour documentary. I wish that they could broadcast the same documentary around the world.

Does anyone of you have an idea as to why do Travel Channel feature Cape Town only in South Africa?

[Durbsboi]

Does anyone of you have an idea as to why do Travel Channel feature Cape Town only in South Africa?

Because the rest of the world think that SA only has 1 city :bash:

[Pule]

^^ true and it irritates the hell out of me.

[dysan1]

^^ its CT or Kruger...their buyers of programming are like that for all regions of the world though, narrowminded

Pule where was this program? do you know when it is on again??

[Pule]

^^ there we go Mike, http://africa-24.com/tvschedule.php

It's broadcasted on Sundays at about 09:00 and it's called Discover Africa on Africa Magic, channel 114. It's also being broadcasted on M-net but I'm not sure about its schedule on M-net.

[dysan1]

awesome thanx mate...never watch that channel

[Diggerdog]

Durban mob - how about some photos of Moyo and the bar on the pier?

[romanSA]

I live near but am not in SA currently. Perhaps one of the other Durban guys can find some time to do so.

[Pule]

^^ an SSC Durban tour can always bring us the best pics of the whole city ;)

[ToxicBunny]

I will see about taking a trip down there this weekend and see what I can get in terms of pics of the bar... Last weekend I stopped short of going all the way to uShaka... I'd already walked about 5kms so was a lil bit tired :p

[Durbsboi]

Im going to Benoni this weekend :(

[ToxicBunny]

Benoni or the Durban beachfront.. hmmmm.. lets see.... :p

[dysan1]

the bar on the pier has not been built yet

[romanSA]

Im going to Benoni this weekend :(

Lovely! How exciting! Maybe you'll bump into the hometown girl, Charlize.


Not.

:lol:

[ToxicBunny]

Surely they've started some kind of construction on it though? or is it still just in the planning phases?

[Durbsboi]

Lovely! How exciting! Maybe you'll bump into the hometown girl, Charlize.


Not.

:lol:

hahaha I wish......:bash:

[p2bsa]

According to my media sources -
the Durban Point EIA has been approved and will be announced in KZN Premier Sbu Ndebele's State of the Province Address in PMB tomorrow!!!

Hope it is correct!!!

[romanSA]

WHOA, Bro! If this is true (and let's hope it is!), this will be the best news that Durban has heard in years! Now let's see if this comes true...

[Luf]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!

I HOPE THIS IS TRUE!!

[Lydon]

Excuse my ignorance, but what will this result in exactly?

[Gulivar]

Lots and lots of buildings.

[Durbsboi]

And hotel's and maybe another resort :banana:

[romanSA]

Excuse my ignorance, but what will this result in exactly?

Well, for starts, a small craft harbour for yachts and small boats, a loch-canal system linking the current canals to the sea, extention of current canals, malls, apartments, hotels (including one planned on a new pier), new beach, scuba diving zone, etc. Needless to say, if this gets the go-ahead the whole Point will take off. This is what has been delaying most of the proposed development there.