http://www.thefranklin.co.za/images/joburg3.jpg

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http://www.thefranklin.co.za/images/main_img2.jpg

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NAME: The Franklin
LOCATION: Pritchard St., Newtown
STATUS: U/sales and refurbishment
FLOORS: 19
HEIGHT: ???
USE: Residential

-previously an office building; built in 1990
-In the heart of the Financial District and bordering Newtown
-Walk to popular restaurants like Moyo, the Market Theatre and the World of Beer
-Only 76 luxury Apartments and Penthouses
-Un-refurbished apartments from R319 280
-Refurbished apartments from R550 000
-Penthouses from R990 000 to R4,5m
-Stefan Antoni designed
-Breathtaking views
-24 Hour security
-Central reception
-Exclusive office & conference facilities
-Basement parking
-Gymnasium & Wellness Centre
-Swimming Pool & Spa
-Exclusive Street Cafés & Restaurants
-VERY lucrative rental possibilities

guys was this one of the Urban Hip Hotels? nearing completion? when do they expect people to start moving into the inner city developments?

I see big levies for owners if there are only 76 units

Very fancy, for Joburg CBD, who's gonna stay there?

It will be a boutique hotel too, so that might drop the levvies.

"Very fancy, for Joburg CBD, who's gonna stay there?"

I've read somewhere that some big shot American backetball player has bought an apartment here.

And Mike.. I'm not really sure when people will be moving in. I'm sure by the end of the year however.

I think I must tell my cuz to buy a flat here, he work at ABSA & only finishes work at 11pm everyday! & he lives in Kayalami!

how is it coming? they gonna have any entertainment in the evening? cos it looked completely dead around there tom

that first pic reminds me of the cticc for some reason..

I think it's cos the CTICC juts out dramatically infront of the Arabella Sheraton. Although the building jutting out in this pic isn't anything near like the CTICC.. :lol:

And ye it's still kinda dead at night around there, but the Newtown nightlife will hopefully spread soon..

The apartments look great.

How did this one finally turn out?

It's opened for business and people have moved in, but they haven't been as successful as the other inner city developers in integrating the surrounding community. There are no 'exclusive street cafes' etc in that area of the CBD. Which is disappointing I guess, but I feel they've targetted the wrong market, who are not prepared to move out of Sandton just yet.

I agree with you Joburg, but if you drive around the area now, you will see that street hawkers have been moved away from the area and the area is quite clean. I think we will see some Cafes and so frth coming there soon, by the way its just 5 minutes walk from Newtown.

According to Urban Ocean they are soon set to refurbish the two storey buildings in front of the Franklin. It forms part of the second phase of the development.

This one is really creeping along... Some of the floors are occupied. others under renovation. People living here says it feels a bit post-apocalyptic, and they wish the construction would stop. The gym is open. And the shops in front are slowly closing one by one, as their leases expires (or so I assume).

The lobby - feels a bit post-nuclear doesnt it?
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/DSC01015.jpg

The building is rather nice
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/DSC01017.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/DSC01019.jpg

Street view - taken from entrance
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/DSC01016.jpg

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/DSC01023.jpg

The Star "They , Urban Ocean, intend to replace the stores with Woolworths, two cofee shops and a resturant"

All this will happen on the 2 stories on the left side of the pic ^^

^^ Oh that's good news. Do you have a link for the article Pule? Woudl be good to read it.

And thanks for the photies Yarrick. The whole buildings seem quite isolated - sorta like a swanky Manhatten apartment block bunged in the middle of... erm.. Africa. :)

Page 21 of today's The Star but hey its a controvesial story.

pule can we get that article from the net

Most retailers have already been moved and work have started.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f119/Puleza/Johannesburg/P1080846.jpg


http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f119/Puleza/Johannesburg/P1080845.jpg


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This is a beuty.

One of Urban Ocean babies, I can't wait for resturants, woolies and coffee shops to be completed and open for business.

I need an educated opinion from the group. I have the opportunity to invest in the Franklin, what do you guys think? I am in London and would love to hear some recent and local opinions on this and would like to see some new photos. Any concerns you have with the specific area of the building? And the developers, Urban Ocean - what are you opinion on them?
Thanks all!

If you're planning on renting the place out to cover a bond, I don't think it's worth buying it because I don't think you would get as high a rent as you should get for the place - maybe R8000 to R10 000 at the most. As for returns, I guess in the future you could get a higher return but certainly not in today's climate. Property market here still climbing out of recession. Urban Ocean should be given credit for the fact that they were essentially the first private property developers to have some faith in the city, but they have certainly pitched their market offering too high and so at least two of their developments have ground to a halt because I think their prices were just too expensive for the city still.

If you're going to invest in the city, I would go with another developer - maybe Pace (www.pace.co.za). Their apartments are cheaper and so you could say buy 4 apartments for the price of 1 in the Franklin, and not only get higher returns at the end of the day, but also collectively gather more rental income from all 4 of them. Also, I think these apartments are better positioned - many of them are in Braamfontein which I think will develop considerably once Gautrain's Park Station comes on board. But certainly there is no point in investing in expensive apartments because the inner city isn't Sandton yet..

This said - this isn't perhaps a very considered opinion as I have never invested in property. But I guess keep asking around.

If you're planning on renting the place out to cover a bond, I don't think it's worth buying it because I don't think you would get as high a rent as you should get for the place - maybe R8000 to R10 000 at the most. As for returns, I guess in the future you could get a higher return but certainly not in today's climate. Property market here still climbing out of recession. Urban Ocean should be given credit for the fact that they were essentially the first private property developers to have some faith in the city, but they have certainly pitched their market offering too high and so at least two of their developments have ground to a halt because I think their prices were just too expensive for the city still.

If you're going to invest in the city, I would go with another developer - maybe Pace (www.pace.co.za). Their apartments are cheaper and so you could say buy 4 apartments for the price of 1 in the Franklin, and not only get higher returns at the end of the day, but also collectively gather more rental income from all 4 of them. Also, I think these apartments are better positioned - many of them are in Braamfontein which I think will develop considerably once Gautrain's Park Station comes on board. But certainly there is no point in investing in expensive apartments because the inner city isn't Sandton yet..

This said - this isn't perhaps a very considered opinion as I have never invested in property. But I guess keep asking around.

it all comes down to price! how much are you paying in the Franklin?
im guessting that you are looking at a bachelor unit? I think in the boom these units were attracting asking prices as much as a million rand for a 60m unit (very overpriced) the market is much slower now and since the Franklin has not developed as quickly as many had hoped there are quite a few owners trying to offolad units. This means that you can pick up a luxury unit in a prestigeous building in the slick part of town for a reasonable price - i would guess you should try around R650 00- R700 000 for a 60 square meter unit.

I am not a fan of the pace developments, the units are far too small, you may get a fair rental return but long term they will never be very desirable property. braamfontein is also aimed more at the student market while the south western district of the city (financial distric and govermnent precinct) sees demand for corporate rentals.

alternatively buy a cheap large unit in an older building like ansteys in the south west of town - get a good ROI and see what happens.

I like the Franklin, at the right price i think it is a good buy.
AND ALWAYS REMEMBER! the market is in a slump, offer at least 20% below asking price! the seller can always negotiate the price higher, but you can never negotiate the price down!

Hi guys. Thanks for you replies. Here is the rub.....
I can get a 68m2 unit for R900k.....which i thought wasnt bad. I have never invested in this area, but per m2 its comparable to investments ive made in Hatfield. If you say im looking at R8000-R10k rent a month, I would be pretty happy. Now you have offered Pace as an alternative, but as Brian says its tiny. And also, with Franklin you get the aparthotel element for the WC and beyond as welll.....?
Any other comments guys? Im thinking of popping over to have a look and if anyone is able to show me some alternatives that would be awesome. Thanks!
Ben

offer 750.

HI Brian
I am a big fan of the low offer and has worked a charm here in the UK, however I have the following concern. Just how bad and low is the demand for units like this? This is the ONLY unit available in the building (bar 4 much larger units). I do want it and would I simply be shooting myself in the foot by alienating the developer with such a low offer?
Thanks

^^ I don't think so. It's a good time to offer low. Plus I don't know if Urban Ocean owns the unit, but from my own layman's perspective (and this would all be conjecture), the company doesn't seem to be doing too well considering the cancellation/postponement of two other developments in the city.

Hi Joburg.
Which other projects have been put on hold or cancelled? Shakespreare place?
Thanks

Shakespeare place has been on hold for ages but me believe that I will once again be realised especially with buildings around it being seriously upgraded at the moment with hotel being planned for 2010. The other factors making me believe that the development will be realised is the fact tha Olitzki Property holding is also busy upgrading its properties in the vicinity, including the current upgrading of Fox street around Carlton Centre which will realise Olitzki's dream of making it fully pedestrianized with restaurants. We have also learnt as per Jakes and joburgcentral.co.za that the former IBM building will is being upgrade and turned into offices. I just hope the Retail Improvement District ugrade, which include Oppenheimer Park, Eloff and Kerk streets will happen soon as they will drive the nearby drive developments like Shakespeare.

Any further information on this one? I've always thought this was an absolutely sexy project-- even the marketing images are beautssss.

Is a Woolworths still going in?

*gets really nostalgic about when this development was his Joburg obsession back in high school*

my bf and I went looking for a place here and got to see some of the finished apartments, which look fantastic! great, quality finishes.

but the building still has a heck load of work to do on it. the lobby is still under construction, and currently construction is underway to build a restaurant just off the lobby so that it would actually be quite decent as an apartment hotel. i think they're hoping to get this done before WC 2010, but everyone we spoke to in the building was quite skeptical about this.

nevertheless, Urban Ocean (or whoever develops it now) really has done a great job fitting quality finishes to the building, and the building differs markedly from the Pace developments that are a bit slapstick to be honest.

As for Woolies, apparently the deal didn't go through. but there are two other woolies' just up the road anyway really..

This one is VEERY slow to really get off the ground. I think FNBs new block on its doorstep will help, and actually create demand for the restaurants and accommodation
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/Johannesburg1237.jpg

As they have been working on this for years I presume that the construction is now done?

^^ No not nearly. A number of apartments are done, however, with people living in them. I was myself looking to rent myself, and they're good deals too! Plus the finishes are really good quality. But the lobby area is going incredibly slowly, simply because (I think) the developers don't have as much money as they thought they would have. There are still plans for a restaurant downstairs, and when we went to check it out there were builders... albeit only about 2 :)

Urban ocean's dreams are just too big. All of their developments are dragging. They should rather do amazing mid-level developments.

I also know a couple of people who live in the building. But man, this is such a slow development!

According to the doorman, about 80 people live in the building. I had a look at three apartments, and I must say, these are great spaces. 1 bedrooms perfect if you are alone, and the 2 bedroom I saw on floor 15 is spectacular, with amazing views.

Looooong corridors
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/P2150053.jpg

Lift Lobby
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/P2150059.jpg

Confirmed that a restaurant is opening soon
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/P2150061.jpg

Views
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1 Bedroom
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/P2150058.jpg

The upgrade did these shops a lot of good. I actually like the eclectic mix!
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/P2150062.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/P2150064.jpg
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Sexy! This view is awesome:

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/granova/P2150054.jpg

The one bedroom unit rents for R5500 a month. Add R350 for parking. It is probably between 30 and 40m2.

^^ I reckon we saw the exact same place. R5500 is a fantastic deal

^^ I reckon we saw the exact same place. R5500 is a fantastic deal

For the finishes, the location, the view - def worth it! Although I rent an apartment in Killarney 2.5 times the size for the same amount!