Design competition raises the bar for canalside living Aug 8 2005
By Neil Connor


Architects are being invited to submit plans for a cutting edge Birmingham city centre development as part of a prestigious competition.

The plans would need to safeguard redundant buildings and uncover the hidden River Rea in the Warwick Bar area, which is at the heart of the city's Eastside district.

The regeneration plan is centred on a 1.9 hectares (4.56 acres) site where the Birmingham- to- London Grand Union Canal meets the Digbeth Branch Canal.

The Warwick Bar Conservation Area includes three statutory listed buildings built by the canal company in the 1840s and 50s, and a locally listed canal warehouse from

1935.

The project is being spearheaded by a partnership between Birmingham City

Council and waterside property developer ISIS, who are inviting 35 leading urban design practices from across Europe to masterplan the development.

Six practices will be shortlisted and their concepts judged in November, following a selection process administered by MADE, The Architecture Centre for the West Midlands Region.

Judges have called for ideas that will build on the success of creative industry hubs The Custard Factory and The Bond in the south of Eastside.

The development would also have to be sustainable, a model for future development in Birmingham, and support the existing rich diversity of flora and fauna in Eastside.

ISIS head of regeneration Mike Finkill said: "Warwick Bar is an exceptional waterside location distinguished by its canals, architecture and wildlife.

"The partners' vision is for mixed- use development bringing about a vibrant and animated waterside, and creative and leisure activity for the widest possible range of people.

"Warwick Bar has the potential to deliver a powerful statement of waterside regeneration to the city region and beyond."

The council's cabinet member for regeneration Coun Ken Hardeman (Con Brandwood) said: "Warwick Bar is a key location that will provide economic stability, diversity and vitality. A distinctive and sophisticated creative quarter, linking to the existing regeneration of Eastside.

"The people of Birmingham will benefit from the development of an environmentally sustainable, mixed use, neighbourhood alongside the canal."

http://www.starling101.btinternet.co.uk/canals/Images/warwick_bar.jpg

im expecting some good ideas for this area....but again, it can all be cast into doubt with the f*cking chemical factopry!

This sounds really interesting...is ISIS british waterways own development arm ? in which case it could take them years to find developers to build the designs, if they dont change them. If not this could happen quite soon as this area is ripe for this and only a few mins walk from masshouse and Millenium Point.

It was supposed to be a media centre and plans were drawn up when eastside was first proposed.

But it looks like this could be a the next step on this theme, the design competition strategy is a good one, Birmingham needs more of these.

as for Mcdermaid, they must be confident something can be sorted out or would not be pursuing this !!! I hope x

Imagine that picture with Masshouse, City Park Gate and Martineau Towers built - a mini skyline :yes:

Imagine seeing this rising cluster while walking down the canals with narrowboats floating past you, people jumpin on water taxi's while you roam the cafes and shops of Birminghams little venice (sounds nice doesnt it) ;)

http://www.starling101.btinternet.co.uk/canals/Images/warwick_bar.jpg

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2121/future9la.png

lol, most of the towers you talk of will not be seen from this view and i have to say unfortunatly, you rending is wildly optermistic and unlickely! :(

lol, most of the towers you talk of will not be seen from this view and i have to say unfortunatly, you rending is wildly optermistic and unlickely! :(

Ssssh - they will ;) :hahaha:

Good News :cheers1:

Architects survey waterside contest site Aug 19 2005
By Neil Connor


Leading architects were in Birmingham yesterday as part of a prestigious competition to revitalise part of the city.

The firms were taking part in a site visit of the Warwick Bar area of Eastside, which is set to become one of the city's premier entertainment districts.

The architects have been invited to submit plans for the cutting edge city centre development, and the proposals would have to safeguard redundant buildings and uncover the hidden River Rea in the area.

At least six Birmingham architects attended a site visit yesterday, including Associated Architects, Bryant Priest Newman, D5, Glenn Howells Architects, and Kinetic AIU.

The regeneration plan is centred on a 1.9-hectare (4.56 acres) site where the Birmingham- to- London Grand Union Canal meets the Digbeth Branch Canal.

The Warwick Bar Conservation Area includes three statutory listed buildings built by the canal companies in the 1840s and 1850s, and a locally listed canal warehouse from 1935.

The project is being spearheaded by a partnership between Birmingham City Council and waterside property developer ISIS, who have invited 35 leading urban design practices from across Europe to masterplan the development.

Six practices will be shortlisted and their concepts judged in November, following a selection process administered by MADE, The Architecture Centre for the West Midlands Region.

Judges have called for ideas that will build on the success of creative industry hubs The Custard Factory and The Bond in the south of Eastside.

The development would also have to be sustainable, a model for future development in Birmingham, and support the existing rich diversity of flora and fauna in the area.

Yesterday's event with the architects was also attended by Richard Green, Birmingham City Council's director of Eastside regeneration, Jayne Bradley and Joe Holyoak from MADE, Mike Finkill, director of regeneration at ISIS, and Rosemary Coyne, the council's Eastside sustainability officer.

so do we all think that this will mirror almost directly the sort of stuff we saw at the mailbox competition?????

It what way, architecture possilbly. Id guess we will see more bars and cafe's like the mailbox.
Although there wont be a huge market for it untill all the major projects in this area are finished. ie. student and apartments like city park gate.

It wouldnt suprise me but its good to hear that the council are pushing through design competitions and also thats its gonna be an entertainment district. I alswys thought our Canals are being blogged up with dead apartments. Id expect to see a few high-rise proposals from the architects, and lets hope Glen Howells gets his wish and builds his 28 storey whatever glass tower here. It would be quite marvellous ;)

Well just looking at some work ISIS are doing in Manchester, there currently building a 23 storey residential tower and some other stuff, looks a good quality design, so whatever these architects come up with, its gonna have to be good to win the competition ...

This is ISIS Wharf in Manchester, maybe this is Glenn Howells, opportunity to win a brum design comp :yes:

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1724ISISWharfTower_pic1.jpg

not sure about the manchester tower (hating overhangs lol) but this is very promising news... however, am more aware that our site needs to be alot more sympathetic to surrounding buildings!

Masterplanner announced for Birmingham's Warwick Bar area

21 November, 2005

Waterside Regeneration company ISIS and Birmingham council announce that Kinetic AIU will draw up mixed-use plan for 1.9 ha site.

http://www.building.co.uk/index.asp?navcode=498

^^That's excellent news. KAIU has an ex-Glen Howells member and don't forget - they're the ones who designed Tate Tower!

It will be good to see this moving!

Anyone else suspect that council have noticed an election looming? ;)

it better not be all election hype!!!!!

These were the 7 shortlisted finalists ...

- AZHAR architecture
- DSDHA
- FAT
- S333
- Kinetic AIU
- Jeppe Aagaard Andersen
- Sarah Wiglesworth

It seems to me landscaping is what the council were really bothered about and none of these groups bar maybe AZHAR and Kinetic actually design anything worth mentioning about

I want the Wiggle to win, all the other sound like really weak tags, other than "Jeppie"

what amazing projects has this comapny deisgned pictures please?????????

I want the Wiggle to win, all the other sound like really weak tags, other than "Jeppie"

What about FAT?

I think there was only Kinetic because the rest sound like made-up names...

Pirlo - there quite a new and small group but other designs include

Lumiere, Manchester

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/lumiere%20building/lumierebuilding1

Aston Locks, Birmingham

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/aston%20locks/astonlocks1

Tate Tower, Birmingham

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/tate%20tower/tatetower1

Turku, Finland

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/turkuvision/turkuvision5

wow those look nice, hopefully we get something like that (oh and tate tower)

These were the 7 shortlisted finalists ...

- AZHAR architecture
- DSDHA
- FAT
- S333
- Kinetic AIU
- Jeppe Aagaard Andersen
- Sarah Wiglesworth

It seems to me landscaping is what the council were really bothered about and none of these groups bar maybe AZHAR and Kinetic actually design anything worth mentioning about
:nuts: That's a very sweeping statement. I don't think any of them would have been shortlisted if they didn't design anything worth mentioning. I'm unfamilliar with a couple of these but S333 are a very good practice and I like some of the work FAT have done too. And good to see a local practice in there.

http://www.fat.co.uk/fat_readme.html
http://www.s333.org
http://www.jaaa.dk/
http://www.swarch.co.uk
http://www.azhararchitecture.com/

Now excuse me if im wrong Foxtrot, but do you see any practices there which actually have masterplanning experience at a high degree? Im sure the project will be very good (because they've chosen Kinetic) but I dare to see what Glen Howells came up with if these small time companies beat him to the shortlist.

do you see any practices there which actually have masterplanning experience at a high degree?
yes. look under urban design on the s333 site.

I'm into my landscape architecture and land art. It's a few years old now but the dutch mountain was brilliant

But I want to live somewhere designed by Sarah Wigleworth! It may be a 'orrible 60 urban nightmair, but "Sarah Wiglesworth", what a great name!

Do we know exacly where this is? Looking on the map I cant see anywhere obvious as the canals arent really shown, but looking on google earth which has high res of part of the area, I can see something that looks like a canal cutting. Or is it further over to the east where the larger canal is shown on the map?

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/map.jpg

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/photo1.jpg

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/photo2.jpg


Is this the warwick bar the same as typhoo basin?

I believe Tyhoo Basin is the area arrowed in green the second pic on the south side of Fazeley Street. Warwick Bar is the canal junction on the north side of Fazley Street. This has the Gun proofing House at the end of Banbury Street, the T Mobile drive in and the Bond Gallery (Old Digbeth ice house) backing onto it.

Probably previously posted, but I found some more photos of the existing site on the website of a development co which appear to have redeveloped some sites just along the way, with map etc. Lots of interesting stuff on this site.

http://www.thebondco.net/location/canals.htm

a bit o/t but i see this site urban heaven has a pic of mine at the top of it. no link though... please link back to skyscrapernews somewhere if you use our stuff on your site, im all for creative commons non commercial use but with attribution.

Do we know exacly where this is? Looking on the map I cant see anywhere obvious as the canals arent really shown, but looking on google earth which has high res of part of the area, I can see something that looks like a canal cutting. Or is it further over to the east where the larger canal is shown on the map?

Is this the warwick bar the same as typhoo basin?
I've walked the canals around the Digbeth area several times, so I know the area quite well. The map you've got from Google is wrong I've doctored it here ... (guess which bits I've added)
http://www.truplex.com/personal/ssc/WarwickBarArea.jpg
Warwick bar and Typhoo basin are not the same thing but they're very close to each other.
Typhoo basin is the body of water on the south-west side of Fazeley Street, which used to serve the Typhoo Tea factory. Warwick bar is the special lock at the top-end of the Grand Union canal which used to stop water flowing between canals owned by different companies.

Apologies if this sounds sad, but I've just had a second look at that Google map and can't believe the mess they've made of High St Deritend. Just look at all those 'one-way street' arrows going all ova-the-place! It's like a map for drunk drivers. The bizarre thing is, it's not even a one-way street.

So if I go along Fazeley street I should be able to look over the wall of that bridge where the road kinks and see this historic canal area.

I know this project is still years off but it excites me it will mean Brum has more than just one smart canal area.

So if I go along Fazeley street I should be able to look over the wall of that bridge where the road kinks and see this historic canal area.
You sure can - if you're tall enough to see over the wall. Don't expect to see much though. The wharf is enclosed by old warehouses. You can't walk round it, but expect that to change over the next few years :)
On the opposite side of the road there's access to the towpath and you can walk round to Warwick bar. There's a couple of information boards where you can read about the history of the area (which is where I get all my knowledge from).

Wow, there is so much potential for Birmingham in this case because it has so many canals. Have a look at the Leeds end of the Leeds & Liverpool Canal to see how great this could look.

In Thursday's Birmingham Post Nov 23 2005
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Birmingham's first wind farm could be built in Digbeth if proposals for a sustainable mixed-use development on the historic Warwick Bar site go ahead.

Concept designs by Birmingham architects Kinetic AIU, revealed as winners of a competition to master-plan the site, include 11 wind turbines - ten placed along the canalside and another incorporated into a tall building which would greet train passengers arriving from London.

The turbines are one possible way of generating energy on-site, as part of plans by developers ISIS to deliver a carbon-neutral development.

A TALL BUILDING.....what are they again?

I've seen the pics of the development and yes there is one tall building in the scheme on the canal edge don't know how tall, but the scheme which is huge by the way can only describe it as very impressive with new squares and extensive work to the street areas in the development.

And some details about what will be there:

homes, offices, cafe, bars, shops, restaurants, film centre, auditorium, international art gallery and a hotel.

Source EGI

oooooh, how did u manage to see it?

I am studying real estate and my lecturer was advising on the scheme and she showed us renders, which should be available soon. Actually i wanted to borrow then to scan in but she wouldn't give them to me.

Soooo... what was it like? Please tell all.

well the images were renders so they just set out the shapes and layout of the scheme, But the tower is a glass rectangle which reduces in width for the last few floors, the wind turbines sit on the opposite side of the river and the rest of the buildings are relatively high glass blocks, one of which appears to sit on stilts in the canal and there is a weird flat curved bridge running over the river near the tower.

Sounds cool. Has anyone got any idea when we can start to see this happening.

Plus, how tall was the tower? I'm assuming it was nothing to shout about.

The maximum tower height for this part of the city is im guessing is just shy of 23 storeys. But this international art gallery is the bit that gets me most intrigued. Could Commerce and BCC know something which only 9 other companies know. Ill find out within the next 3 days. Promise :cheers1:

Photo in today's Post! :)

Article in today's Ppst

Now a wind farm in . . . Digbeth Nov 24 2005




By Terry Grimley Arts Editor


Birmingham's first wind farm could be built in Digbeth if proposals for a sustainable mixed-use development on the historic Warwick Bar site go ahead.

Concept designs by Birmingham architects Kinetic AIU, revealed last night as winners of a competition to master-plan the site, include 11 wind turbines - ten along the canalside and another incorporated into a tall building which would greet train passengers arriving from London.

The turbines are one possible way of generating energy on-site as part of plans by developers ISIS to deliver a carbon-neutral development.


The scheme could also make a start on liberating the River Rea from the brick culvert which has constrained it for over a century. On one side the wall would be replaced by a stepped series of grassed terraces designed to accommodate flooding.




Warwick Bar is probably the most important surviving Victorian industrial canalside location in the city. The 1.9 hectare (4.56 acre) site is bounded on one side by Fazeley Street, on two by canals and on the fourth by the River Rea.


There are three nationallylisted and one locally-listed buildings on the site, and the land across the canal includes the only area of wilderness in the city centre, providing an important resource for wildlife.


Kinetic was selected from a shortlist of seven in a competition organised by regional architecture centre MADE ( Midlands Architecture Design Environment) on behalf of ISIS, a specialist waterside regeneration company linked to British Waterways. MADE has just relocated to a listed 1840s building at Warwick Bar.


The shortlisted practices, taken from 45 submissions, included firms from Denmark and Holland.


ISIS regeneration director Mike Finkill said: "As a developer we have a sustainability charter and have selected Warwick Bar as an exemplar and a test-bed. That is why we are working closely with colleagues at Birmingham City Council and the Eastside Sustainability Advisory Group."

..

Wind turbines, hmm, well, I guess they are quite tall strutures so we should be giving them the thumbs up. They must look quite impressive close up although I normally associate them with bleak countryside rather then urban feature.

Still I guess its all trendy to be renewable/sustainable at the moment so it should help attract any government assistance that might be available. It would also be quite a landmark.

Wind Turbines are really impressive for such a simple thing. 10 of these including 1 on a taller building will look either very awkward or very intriguing. Im hoping its the latter, and will definately give Birmingham the chance to be identified easier.

More from today's Post.

Bold vision for city quarter Nov 24 2005
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Venice and Stockholm have been the inspiration for plans aimed at transforming an historic part of Birmingham city centre. Arts Editor Terry Grimley looks at the proposals...

The much-trumpeted transformation of Digbeth into Birmingham's new media quarter has been slow to take off but an ambitious vision for the Warwick Bar site, unveiled last night, could set new aspirations for the area.

In contrast to previous proposals for the canalside conservation area, which adopted a low-key, low-rise approach reflecting the existing Victorian buildings, competitionwinners Kinetic AIU envisage an intensive mixed-use development including seven large blocks within a network of streets and squares.

The vision is for a mixed community living and working on the site, with a strong emphasis on sustainability, flagged up by 11 tall wind turbines incorporated into the model.

Bob Ghosh, director of Kinetic, said inspiration had been taken from the mix of buildings and spaces in Venice and a recent dockside development in Stockholm, as well as the rich industrial history of the site.


Possible uses include a film centre and auditorium, up to 600 new homes, flexible business space, cafes, bars, shops and restaurants. It is suggested that the canalside Banana Warehouse could be converted into an art gallery.


" It's all about placemaking," Mr Ghosh said. "It's important to get a lot of people on the site - a living, working community with a dynamic mix of uses.


"There are ambitions to make this the media quarter, and for independent production companies this site could be the natural progression from the Custard Factory.


"A key aspect of it is the way the existing buildings relate to new buildings. The scale of the former Fellows, Morton & Clayton building is huge, so we think we can justify some pretty imposing buildings on this site, both architecturally and in terms of scale. And we would like to think some of the buildings can be world-class."


He added that a number of different architects were likely to design individual buildings, in order to achieve diversity. It is hoped the development could set a precedent for what is already being called Birmingham's 'Lower Eastside', the area of Digbeth south of the Birmingham-Coventry railway line, where wellestablished creative-industry developments such as the Custard Factory and The Bond have more recently been joined by relocated media organisations such as Screen West Midlands and Vivid.


Most of the area is still occupied by generally lowquality industrial buildings, with a sprinkling of historic survivals.


While there is little visible evidence of the area being transformed, there are plans in the pipeline. Across Fazeley Street from Warwick Bar, leading Birmingham practice Glenn Howells Architects has designed a large development - mixed, but mainly residential - at Typhoo Wharf, while across the canal there are plans to redevelop the UB40 recording studio site. However, Warwick Bar could lay down a benchmark for future Eastside development in terms of sustainability.


" The real difference between ISIS (the waterside regeneration company) and other developers is that they have a real commitment to ideas of community and sustainability," said Mr Ghosh.


"They are very keen to develop a community on this site, with people of all backgrounds and, for example, affordable child care." While emphasising that the designs so far represent only the outline concepts of the competition-winning practice, ISIS regeneration director Mike Finkill said he was optimistic that a development of similar scale could be delivered.


"To get to a proper masterplan we have to consult with a much bigger group of stakeholders, and until they have had their input it is not possible to say what shape the scheme will eventually take. But there is enough in that concept to convince me that we have appointed the right designers.


"We were also impressed by a lot of the ideas put forward by other competitors."


As well as organising the competition, regional architecture centre MADE ( Midlands Architecture Design Environment) - previously hosted by the Royal Institute of British Architects' West Midlands office - has become the first design-focused organisation to take up residence at Warwick Bar.


"We wanted a place with character that reflects the work we do, has a story in itself, and wasn't just one of the hundreds of serviced offices in the city centre," director Julia Ellis explained. "We were also keen to be in Eastside.


"Everything we do is collaborative and this is an exemplar project and process.


"We believe there is a lot of talk about quality in the designed environment, but what we need are real live examples such as this one," she added.

does anyone know what isis has done so far, are they part of British Waterways, if they are to achieve the mix they talk about there would have to be hefty public subsidy !!! Hope AWM have significant funding for this as nothing has happened in the last 6 years with this site ?

sorry to sound pessemistic, but if places like the custard factory are having problems getting funding for expansion, for the same kind of schemes, why shoudl this be any different ?

Hope I am wrong!!!

well if im not mistaken, ISIS are in schemes from london canary wharf to towers in manchester...they really do like their towers!

thats good to know !! are they the actual developers or do they act as agents for British Waterways, drawing up schemes and then selling/partnering with other private developers ! anyone know ?

ISIS have a web site: http://www.isis.gb.com/index.htm

It say that Warwick Bar should have a planning application in by next summer. There is also a proposal for the Icknield Loop

Bob Ghosh, director of Kinetic, said inspiration had been taken from the mix of buildings and spaces in Venice and a recent dockside development in Stockholm, as well as the rich industrial history of the site.


It would be great if this guy had an illicit affair with the Transport Secretary and they (somehow) had a baby.

It could be called "Ghosh Darling"

i've got the pictures from the post anyone want to see it?

Yes yes yes

give me a minute to upload them

Rather!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/pirlo_21/scan0003.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b249/pirlo_21/scan0004.jpg

there you go!!

Cool, cheers pirlybird :)

Fab! Really cool - and it keeps the character of the area. There are so many good buildings here - lets not have it too modernised!

Good work Pirlo :)

I did note the article says that the individual buildings will be designed by other firms, with Kinetic doing the masterplanning (and the odd building).

i actually had to steall the article from the library so that i could post it here, glad you guys like it

mmm. I like it. are the turbines in the park on on the roof of a building?

Tower no taller then 50m :(

Tower no taller then 50m :(

I don't think there should be a monster - it is too sensitive an area. That 15 storey will do nicely :)

To sensitive? this area could easily accomodate an 80m tower. cutting it short again, the layout however looks nice. a good brother for Brindley Place

Yes a good borther for Brindley Place... I eat and drink there... When at work...!
Very unusual plan... Brillinat though. Has enormous carachter... Nice to see mass development heppening outside of the city center area. Hopefully this will bind the City Center with areas like this together... More urbanisation I say...
Shame though that the tower is not more clear in the render given...
I look forward to see it in construction soon...!

Kinetic have updated their website with renders of the site.

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/masterplan.jpg

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/modelrender.jpg

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/aerial.jpg

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/model.jpg

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/pickfordsquare.jpg

Thanks for those pics. It looks very promising and futuristic, the last image imparticular - which for some reason reminds me of a scene in Tron.
I really like the idea of the wind farm. It's novel without being tacky and shows the city is thinking green. Will be a great sight when arriving into Birmingham on the train.

V v v cool..... :)

Woot fantastic stuff.

Now I can orientate myself the long street it fronts is Fazeley street. Looks like one of the main entrances to the site will be in front of you as you come to the top of Pickford Street with the original buildings retained. Or at least the fronts.

Have they changed the shape of the canal on there with all the little inlets and stuff dunno if thats what it is already like.

Looks like in addition to the canals as marked by Steve e-b the rea is around there too, with a little aquaduct across it, presumably thats already there I might go and try to take a photo of it.

Just think if another US president comes after this is up and running we can take him first to Brindley place, then for a quicky at Typhoo basin before coming to Warwick bar for last orders. I'm telling you we'll never get rid of him.

Is this one of the developments being affected by McDiarmids? I really want this to get going ASAP.

nope it wont be effected

... the rea is around there too, with a little aquaduct across it, presumably thats already there I might go and try to take a photo of it.
The aquaduct taking the canal over the river is already there. From what I remember of my towpath walks it's a brick bridge with a high wall. When you peer over the top you can see the river running along in a straight concrete trough.
One thing I'm really looking forward to in this development is how they 'release' the river from the straight-jacket it's in at the moment. The Rea should be an asset to the city, something people sit beside on summer days - eating their lunch in a city-centre park. I hope the landscaping in this project goes some way to addressing that.

Been down there today whilst on the way shopping with my missus. She waited in the car looking slightly impatient about my geeky behaviour whilst I took a few snaps. I am sure this is nothing new to those of you who have been down there.

Standing on the bridge on Fazeley street looking towards the frontage of the site. The first two are the historic buildings which are going to be retained , with what looks like a large pedestrian entrace here. Looks like this was originally some kind of freight handling facility with offices at the front? As you can see the back of the old building has scaffolding all over it.

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/shot1.jpg

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/shot2.jpg



To give an idea of scale, from further down the street facing the other way, you can see the retained buildings on the right, we can see the city centre lumbering towards us in the shape of the masshouse tower. We just need to join this all up now its all there get on with it ffs.

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/shot3.jpg



Looking down the canal on the section behind the development. That bloke was giving me funny looks as though I was taking photos of him.

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/shot4.jpg

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/shot5.jpg

http://www.zen46653.zen.co.uk/pictures/shot6.jpg

The area around here including Typhoo basin which will be regenerated will be massive. I know momentum may seem slow at times but you can just glimpse a whole new side of Brum being opened up here and joining up with the offices and ressy towers in the city centre. The streets are long and straight and flat down here giving it a completely different feel to other parts of Brum.

If this and Typhoo Wharf are done well, which lokoing at the masterplan should be the case, then I think this will be absolutely spectacular.

Thanks for the photos Cookoid.Loads of potential there.I wonder what the population of the area is?I imagine it doesn't hit five hundred even.

ISIS Waterside Regeneration, Warwick Bar, Birmingham , Visionary Award £10,000:

PROJECTS said: "A successful PROJECT application has been made by the Director of ISIS Waterside Regeneration in association with MADE for an artist to join the design team and develop an urban design scheme for the Warwick Bar area of Eastside in Birmingham.

"The design team will include an architect, ecologist and an artist and will progress an outline planning scheme to be registered for approval at the end of 2006. The project brings together a partnership of public private interests of British Waterways, AMEC Investments Ltd and Morley Fund Management.

"Full endorsement has been given to the scheme by the Arts Ambassador for Eastside Regeneration, a former urban designer with Birmingham City Council who promotes the arts at the heart of this regeneration scheme and the ability of both ISIS and MADE to achieve a viable scheme."

is any residential development here affected by mc dermuid ? as its right next to typhoo wharf ?

Planning application due summer '06

I think this is going to be one of the most important projects in the UK. ISIS are doing good things at Islington Wharf in Mcr and have other schemes dotted around the UK. They are a JV between British Waterways Amec and someone else...

what makes you say this is going to be sooo important?

Don't know - just feel that it will be a benchmark development that will truly kickstart the Digbeth side of things.

please dont think i understand the i[portance it will have to digbeth...it will be major....but in the UK?

There was an article in the Sunday Times about this scheme. No pictures, just said the same as Bio - Landmark water scheme...

I think this is going to be a very important development for Birmingham. This is proper hardcore urban regeneration and I think some of the nearby properties will be changing hands to developers well before this is compelte. And of course Typhoo basin is literally over the road.

Heres a recap on this, include the latest Google earth imagary and repost my images which got lost when I moved isp. In the first one I have marked where I have taken photos from.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Cookoid/warwick1.jpg


Plonking in the new development. Looks like that are keeping most if not all of the existing frontage to Fazeley street, and cutting a "hole" in the big warehouse type building half way down the street on the first shot. Whats that to the north? It appears to be somewhere lorrys come to dump shit.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Cookoid/warwick2.jpg


The pics of existing
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Cookoid/shot1.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Cookoid/shot2.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Cookoid/shot3.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Cookoid/shot4.jpg

People on the upper floors in the new flats at Masshouse will get a nice view of this development.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c261/Cookoid/shot5.jpg

Thanks for that cookie

Good work Cookoid!

Kinetic are keeping the "Banana Factory" (and old wharfside warehouse) but as much of the existing is just warehousing and tin sheds (not historic) it will go and be replaced.

It is amazing that an area with so much potential is unexploited as yet.

The article that Rich mentioned was largely talking about ISIS in Mcr (as that is underway/almost ready) but, as with Park Central, I think Birmingham will be leading the UK in terms of getting families in the city centre and creating truly sustainable communities. And amongst the setting of the most exciting bohemian architecture.

Lets make no bones, this area is Birmingham's most important historic area. This is where it all began folks. The river Rea forded under the Bullring and this is where the market that started Birmingham off was set up. Then during the industrial revolution, Digbeth and Deritend was the powerhouse of the city. Prior to that Digbeth was filled with metalworkers. Birmingham was and is an industrial city and this development is sympathetic to the small industrial nature of its surroundings. In the not-too-distant future, tourists will be flocking to the newly-populated and developed Digbeth and Deritend to savour the Irish Quarter and feel the vibe of one of the UK's most historic areas. :)

The Sunday Times article is on Hugh Pearman's website...

http://www.hughpearman.com/2006/02.html

The funny thing about this development is that I think they're planning on having the Brindleyplace-style design process that's become fairly standard for large scale peices of urbanism, where one firm of architects masterplans and the individual buildings are done by a variety of different firms.

Normally that's great because it means you get a less monolithic feel than when the whole thing is done as a single set piece, but looking at that you wish they'd just give the whole damn thing to Kinetic, because it looks magnificent - great architecture and great urbanism at the same time.

I agree Bileduct - I think Kinetic would do a great job - but are they big enough?

I think I read somewhere that they are going to keep the best building for themselves but at least they will be involved in concepts and design brief, and quite possibly in approving designs. I trust they will appoint suitably 'cool' architects.

do we know at wat stage in planning all this is...ive forgotten

I don't think it has gone for planning yet but BCC areright behind it.

One of the best features is atthe bottom of the site (on the right) which I hope they do something with - the canal crosses the river on an aqueduct :)

ISIS anticipate start on-site in summer 2008 :)

just another 2 years lol

Not bad. They are submitting for Planning end of this year, and they don't seem to be in much of a rush to design (which is refreshing) - they are giving themselves a year!

just fustraiting lol

Blimey that is quite a while. I assume some demolition/clearing might happen before then?

BTW did you know that the guy in pics 3 & 4 was cruisin?..(this area of canal towpath is historically a gay cruising area..

BTW did you know that the guy in pics 3 & 4 was cruisin?..(this area of canal towpath is historically a gay cruising area..

Rofl no I didnt. Little old innocent me engaging in my geeky pastime didnt suspect a thing about that bloke, although looking back I guess it was obvious. Anyway he wasnt having lot of luck on his cruise. No wonder he was looking at me lol shit he was probabaly expecting me to come down and offer to bum him or whatever.

Rofl no I didnt. Little old innocent me engaging in my geeky pastime didnt suspect a thing about that bloke, although looking back I guess it was obvious. Anyway he wasnt having lot of luck on his cruise. No wonder he was looking at me lol shit he was probabaly expecting me to come down and offer to bum him or whatever.
yeah quite funny really...I notice he was watching you snapping away, you can just imagine the conversation;
Him " Hi saw you takin my picture"
You " Er no actually I'm just er working for the council"
Him " Oh right wanna do some more work over there?"
...lol :lol:

Inland waterways - cruising - do I detect a late April fool? ;)

But he looks like Christopher Biggins! Woudln't touch him with yours!

Oh, hang on, just looked in the Mirror, oh the Irony...

Hello does anybody have any latest on this development by any chance? I ask because its maybe the most tasty of the lot in one sense.

I caught a glimpse of a model of the UB40 studio redevelopment which is adjacent to the Warwick Bar scheme. Very reminisant of the first phase of Jupiter next to the canal. The only slightly interesting bit is that they have incorporated a replica of the murial which is painted on the current building but on the new buildings two gable ends are nearly touching the the spark is in the gap.

Bump.

Just a reminder that this scheme by ISIS (and Kinetic Architects) is due for a planning application this spring, and work due to start autumn next year :)

Erebus - any news?

ISIS' schedule also has planning consent for Icknield Port Loop for this summer, with work beginning by winter :)

Erebus - any news?

I already emailed Kinetic yesterday after rediscovering the Wikipedia article and through previous experience in the past, they take a good while to reply...

Tower looks a good height and design - about 16 storeys and 50-60m

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/nightshot.jpg

Nice work aswell, love the neon lighting

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/canalshot.jpg

and more fantastic design

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/warwickbarwaterside.jpg

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/elevation.gif

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/L0plan.gif

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/courtyard.jpg

Surrounding developments

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/siteaerial.jpg

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/modelcloseup.jpg

Very cool.
I like it.

btw, did anyone see the pics in the Pink Paper of the plans for Manchesters Gay Village - Origin. Quite funky design which these remind me of in modernity.

FM: On the surround developments picture, the abandoned viaduct is highlighted - do you know what's going on with that?

Thanks for the pictures. It looks awesome. It'll be interesting to see how the societies will take to this seeing as it is in the conservation area.

FM: On the surround developments picture, the abandoned viaduct is highlighted - do you know what's going on with that?

Something to do with the rumoured spur to divert some services from BNS into Moor St. & Snow Hill maybe? Not sure how practical that would be 'cos the trains driver would have to swap ends. :dunno:

The link between Moor Street and New Street tracks is closer to Camp Hill. The other spur up near Soho junction.

They did look into viaduct but said it would be too expensive to rebuild but I think there is a plan to extend it as there is land available where it would continue. Will find out from my friend who knows people at Network Rail.

one of my planning tutors is heavily involved in this, so when the next semester starts i shall see if i can get some more info on this

:uh: exactly the sort of quality needed for this part of town. Excellent

Absolutely wonderful. Cheers Molly/Sim :pepper:

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/canalshot.jpg

Interesting how they have put windows in the big brick curved wall :)

I just dont think anything across the UK can rival eastside - every projects so different and we're keeping most worthy things that of are already there. So much more that we havent seen plans for aswell.

True, but I'm still a bit miffed that it isn't the green quarter it was supposed to be. "Sustainable Eastside" was just a joke...

Wow, this looks great

is there a timescale, startdate, is it funded or is this just a pipedream ? would be interesting to see this finally start as this area of town is crying out for development

True, but I'm still a bit miffed that it isn't the green quarter it was supposed to be. "Sustainable Eastside" was just a joke...


Turbines are still there, infact theres a 15m one attached to the tower ;)

I think this will be the only green development in the whole of Eastside. Ah well, better than nothing! :)

:carrot:

This looks exciting, and should be a great addition to this area to.

Nice.

This is a terribly neglected stretch of canal in the city, so good that it'll be utilised in this.

I first heard about the Eastside proposals in 1999, it was all supposed to have been pretty much developed by 2008!

This looks lovely, just the kind of thing I was hoping to see. :banana:

I really hope they make the best use of the great potential from the canals overall in eastside.

Im happy atlast to see something drawn up but im really sad a sit appears to not have any heritage buildings in them pictures? Its just modern future tech build again? why cant they make some nice old looking new buildings like them apartments by the island on the canal section opposite malthouse ( well kind of opposite?) I think gas street basin would juts piss all over this if its going to be just ugly new boring builds i cant say its even cool really too :( its just ugly i think and bland?

Iwant to ask anyone from the pics where does it interest the eye and make you feel delighted??? ijust cant find it? Its souless, just like many older people felt some parts of the bullring were looking souless too which used to be the market areas?

To me i await this project with excitment as much as any, but from this kind of pictures who can just not feel dissapointed and see bland bland souless build its so flat even if there is one curvy building in the background. I know some of that area is pretty shitty now but come on man make it look cosey or something? Yes what will the conservation people think? Id stand with them all the way if they have any qualms. because what an attractive beautful sight this could be? I mean do toursits do you think flock to such areas? i think not tourists go to where is old nice architecture where there is monuments etc... Travelling is pretty much my life and i watch programs you never see new places been visited or labelled as like tourist areas not as far as i can remember anyway? unless its Tokyo akihababra district or shibuya but apart from that new builds dont do jack shit for peoples viewing pleasures ( like Dubai's new plans horrid). Wouldnt you thin kthey cold just try make it beautiful? even if it means recreating simular designs of the past?

This kind of look is souless to the ground it appears i really hope the conservationists can get proposed much better buildings and unique ones that are in tune with some of that area.

I think that this development looks great, I love the use of the wind turbines too. Personally I would much rather see cutting edge modern architecture then pastiche 'old looking' new buildings which is all most of our modern suburban housing estates seem to deliver.

I'd say these proposals represent generic contemporary design more than cutting-edge architecture. Nonetheless it all seems to be of a generally good standard.

There's a line to be drawn between pastiche and having a good interaction with the existing built environment. Thing is, there's pretty much sod-all to be interacting with here, unless we want buildings that fit in with the whole post-industrial scrubland mojo. And to be fair, this site is never going to be a tourist draw, so I think that catering to the functional needs and wants of the prospective occupiers with some decent quality modern architecture takes precedence over developing a collection of outstandingly photogenic buildings.

I thought Kinetic were just the masterplanners and are not proposing the detailed design of all the buildings, but indications of some of the buildings (hence some look more detailed tha others) so what you see here may well only be an indication, I like the tower and the green building, which appear the most detailed, personally a cutting edge high tech area for media and technology firms would really boost this area whch is practically derelict...and compliment the artistic renaisassance happening along heath mill lane..with the custard factory, vivid, uce, ikon and several smaller art businesses now taking residence

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/canalshot.jpg

Interesting how they have put windows in the big brick curved wall :)

It's really good to see they are retaining this wall.

It really is something to look at, so it'll be a real feature in the new development.

As I understand it "The Bond" business complex is in the middle of this. A mate of mine has a business in there. Is it staying and being absorbed or is it going to get the bullet?

As I understand it "The Bond" business complex is in the middle of this. A mate of mine has a business in there. Is it staying and being absorbed or is it going to get the bullet?

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/L0plan.gif

I believe the bond is the site towards the bottom right hand side of this image - with the courtyard. So I guess not.

Could be wrong though.

It's really good to see they are retaining this wall.

It really is something to look at, so it'll be a real feature in the new development.

They cannot demolish it, it is a listed building with the added protection of being in a conservation area. :)

I'd say these proposals represent generic contemporary design more than cutting-edge architecture.

.



Really?

Where else have you see these walk the plank balconies



http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/warwickbarwaterside.jpg



I cant say I agree with Dreamtime. I find symphony court boringly suburban compared to this. I also think there has been attempts to make it in keeping with the limited character in the area including the wall mentioend above.

Like it. Hope it gets to delivery quickly. Lots going on at the moe..

Really?

Where else have you see these walk the plank balconies



http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/warwickbarwaterside.jpg


I think there was a Manchester or other northern city similar proposal. Not sure if it was built. There is a tendancy with Alsop type ones to be more designs that reality.

Wasn't there a plan for a northern city such as Wakefield (im guessing randomly) with weird developments round a lake. Im sure it was something that was in the Northern Supercity thing.

apologies im waffling.
:nuts:

[QUOTE=mk61;13853164

I believe the bond is the site towards the bottom right hand side of this image - with the courtyard. So I guess not.

Could be wrong though.[/QUOTE]


:) Thanks mk

The alsop development around a lake was Bradford (adjacent to the town hall), would have been pretty impressive

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/articles/2007/02/13/park_plans_bradford_feature.shtml

Really?

Where else have you see these walk the plank balconies



http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/warwickbarwaterside.jpg



I cant say I agree with Dreamtime. I find symphony court boringly suburban compared to this. I also think there has been attempts to make it in keeping with the limited character in the area including the wall mentioend above.

They're out of the ordinary, I'll give you that.

Interesting roof features - and wind turbines!


http://www.isis.gb.com/UserFiles/Image/developments/warwickbar01.jpg

http://www.isis.gb.com/warwickbar/index.html?u=42&item=61

Yea i reckon it looks alot better from the top than on street level according to the pictures so far, the top view looks aweosme and going green in the city centre but the street level in my opinion is as ugly & plane as hell no detail or something of interest to capture the eye (wont be winning any architectural design compaetitions) very dissapointing at base level me thinks:ohno:

This isn't plain at all, in my opinion. It is a unique and funky design. You acn't go too over the top because this is a conservation area, and the Digbeth, Deritend and Bordesley High Streets Conservation Area is just next door. The grass roofs look great, whilst being eco friendly. I wonder what the "cracks" are? It'll be interesting to see if it is glass.

In my opinion, this really can win awards. It will revitalise this somewhat tired location with studios, apartments, and retail. This is very exciting and I don't see why we should be beating this rare opportunity down.

From the site MK61 linked to..

Stages:
Planning application: Summer 2008
Planning consent: Winter 2008/09
Start on site: from Summer 2009

Two years until they start on site. I have to day i am slightly disappointed with the timescale. The quality of the renders suggested an earlier planning application date.

Still plenty of time for the designs to change in this case

From the site MK61 linked to..

Stages:
Planning application: Summer 2008
Planning consent: Winter 2008/09
Start on site: from Summer 2009

Two years until they start on site. I have to day i am slightly disappointed with the timescale. The quality of the renders suggested an earlier planning application date.

Still plenty of time for the designs to change in this case

Its very dissapointing that Isis seem to be taking there time with this, do we know how quickly comparable schemes in Manchester etc were pushed through.

I believe that the images we see are simply kinetics masterplan. The individual buildings are going to seperate architects with Kinetic designing one or two

As I say, they don't seem to be in a hurry

Do we know how long it takes to design a scheme like this to the point where a full planning application can be produced? I remember talking to an architect at CZWG who said it can take well over a year for what might seem a relatively small project.

There are reasons for this start date. Its not just because they cant be bothered to start with it. I personally think it should start around this time.

There are reasons for this start date. Its not just because they cant be bothered to start with it. I personally think it should start around this time.

who implied they couldn't be bothered.

It just seems that this scheme is not a top priority for them as its been on the drawing board for seven years.

Can you elaborate on the long gestation for the scheme or is it a commercial secret

Well, Isis certainly seem to be concentrating on Icknield Port Loop with Glenn Howells at the moment, and they aren't a huge company so maybe 2 local projects are too much?

cheers bio

that makes sense

I can't remember if this has been put up before but it has only just appeared on this council website:

Warwick Bar
Conservation Area
July 2007
Draft Character Appraisal
and Draft Supplementary Planning Policies

http://80.86.36.120/vault/XDDocStore_7/0226928_Warwick%20Bar%20CA.pdf

nb: its 6mb

Its also got nice new logo:
the Birmingham Plan
birmingham’s local development framework.

well im just hopeful of the outcome now i just wont try to read into the pics we got at first sight.

Some new pictures and such on the Kinetic website. I'm just going to post the lot so some are bound to have already been posted.
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/masterplan.jpg
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/modelrender.jpg
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/model.jpg

Representing our industrial heritage I see! This is called Pickford Square.
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/pickfordsquare.jpg

http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/alongside.jpg
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/canalshot.jpg
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/courtyard.jpg
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/elevation.gif
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/L0plan.gif
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/modelcloseup.jpg
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/nightshot.jpg
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/siteaerial.jpg
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/warwickbarwaterside.jpg

From the looks of some of these. It looks as though some have been taken from documents indicating that a planning application could be imminent.

well, thinking outside the box srings to mind!

Thanks for the update Erebus.I'm looking forward to this one.

unfortunetely its about getting it past the pretty pictures stage first!

That's a bit gloomy woodie!

Not too conident on this one then?

cant blame the man just look how shite it looks, Iv'e said it before and i dont care to say again how blocky it looks and bland too, I think i'd almost prefer the present state. Maybe i can say it looks very urban or something lol! anything is better than bland f*****G blocky shite. I really cant see what people see in it to eben think it could win awards etc.. to me its appears like another classic example of modern bollox architecture that makes an area just more ugly.

Atleast in Tokyo theres enough classy buildings and state of the art modern designs that make you piss yourself silly! but all this modern bland stuff should be washed down the toilet peace out!

I wouldnt call it Bland! The Green building is unique with those balconies, and the tower is pretty damn nice in my opinion. Yes some of the Low rise stuff is pretty similar and unadventurous, but not every new building can be unique and world class. It would look a mess.

cant blame the man just look how shite it looks, Iv'e said it before and i dont care to say again how blocky it looks and bland too, I think i'd almost prefer the present state. Maybe i can say it looks very urban or something lol! anything is better than bland f*****G blocky shite. I really cant see what people see in it to eben think it could win awards etc.. to me its appears like another classic example of modern bollox architecture that makes an area just more ugly.

Atleast in Tokyo theres enough classy buildings and state of the art modern designs that make you piss yourself silly! but all this modern bland stuff should be washed down the toilet peace out!

Quite opinionated!

This is a conservation area Mark so there will be nothing too crazy - they have to respect the industrial past of the area.

I see that the the massive brick walled buidling (I think there's a photo by Smiley in the old canal thread),it's next to the green building in the photo below) will be plugged with glass as part of the new development.It's an amazing ...er...wall of brick.:)


http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/canalshot.jpg
.

i love this covered shed like building and am happy they have to incorporate it so well into the sceme!

You're right Nacho! It's quite spectacular.

Am I correct in thinking the one canal goes over the other? *just noticed it's the River Rea* In terms of the overall design, I like it. It's a pretty depressing walk around there at the moment, so hopefully this can be fast-tracked and gotten on with. I bet The Bond and the Ikon 2 feel the same because they're out on a limb a bit at the moment.

I wouldnt call it Bland! The Green building is unique with those balconies, and the tower is pretty damn nice in my opinion. Yes some of the Low rise stuff is pretty similar and unadventurous, but not every new building can be unique and world class. It would look a mess.

Sadly not quite unique anymore. There is at least one in East London like that.

Some pretty stunning buildings going up in East London, between Liverpool Street and Stratford.
There is one that I was particularly excited about when I saw it today, would suit Birmingham better ;)

What I want to see as well is how it integrates with the land surrounding it and other bits so there is an urban grain that flows through rather than funky looking buildings, cross road, then 200m of traditional then, another eclectic mix.

Quite opinionated!

This is a conservation area Mark so there will be nothing too crazy - they have to respect the industrial past of the area.

But how is that design respecting the past??? Its just same as what we always see i think?

I know u cant have world class everywhere in one place but look at the apartments opposite the NIA looking from the malt house balcony and parts of brindley place are atleast quite attrictive, so for a exciting area as this making our canal area's stand out is to me just a dissapointment as the way it stands by them boring bland building shots we just saw.

Well I'm going to wait to reserve judgement on this development. These are, after all, just initial renders - still waiting to go through PP.
The buildings are very box, lets call it "regular", shaped but they do have some interesting features. The balconies have already been mentioned and there's also this building. It appears to take a cue from the cube with its mesh like covering - almost like a mosi net has been draped over it.
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/pickfordsquare.jpg

That image looks like its come straight out of Tron.
And to keep with the movie theme this one has clearly been inspired from Pirates of the Caribbean: those ghost boats moored on the left could only be owned by Davy Jones himself.
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/courtyard.jpg

one has clearly been inspired from Pirates of the Caribbean: those ghost boats moored on the left could only be owned by Davy Jones himself.
http://www.kinetic-aiu.com/images/projects/warwickbar/courtyard.jpg

:lol: Well spotted Steve.

Model from Baskerville House exhibition as part of Climate Change Festival plus image from one of the boards around town for same festival.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/Planning%20Images/31MahyWar2.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/Planning%20Images/31MahyWar3.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/Feltip/Planning%20Images/31MayWarwimage.jpg

And it just so happens that I got an email from ISIS today saying that they are aiming to submit the planning app during summer. :)

Thanks for the pics feltip!

Also, can this title be changed? This isn't on the River Rea, it's next to the Grand Union Canal. :)

When you take this proposal together with Andover St it appears to me that the plan is those relatively few standout industrial buildings that do remain will no longer have any context with the area. I think the area is going to lost its character and its a shame. To me we need smaller scale development in keeping with the currrent environment. I really cant see how 'historic layers are used to influence the form of the new buildings' in these images. I also dont see why a high density solution is necessary for this area. I would suggest a low rise low density solution that blends into the current environment rather than detracts from it.

Well, I agree with you to a point with this scheme. I think that the Fellows Morton and Clayton building will look out of place but that is the only building. They appear to have incorporated the Banana Warehouse very well and brought back into use well too.

Digbeth cannot solely look like an industrial area. What will set Digbeth apart is the combination of the industrial architecture with unique modern architecture. If Digbeth is to become this vibrant quarter that the council are trying to focus their attentions on, then it is design like this that we should be seeing. The architecture of the area needs to reflect it's usage.

So, I think this design is fantastic. If it incorporates the current buildings well as opposed to keeping them for the sake of keeping them, then this will really work. Plus, the canal really needs revitalisation. When I walked along the canal a few months back, I saw about 2 people in all, this thing rotting away and the former toll house or pumping station (can't remember) completely overgrown with graffiti covering the plaque commemorating it. It's a real shame.

That looks very nice .

Sorry to disagree but I dont support what appears to be an unimaginative top down approach to developing this area. Small scale organic approach to development should be the major aim with the intention of retaining the current feel of the area (that is the point of a conservation area isnt it?) The thing that really fired my interest in the city's development was Parkinson's masterplan - here are a few quotes from it;


(The council's development plans) must show how diversity and grittiness can be achieved in different parts of the city centre. This should lead to a greater concentration of resources on existing but under-used areas like the Jewellery Quarter, the Custard Factory or the area around the Hippodrome. It will particularly need to show how the area which has the greatest potential - Digbeth - will be developed in ways that capitalise upon its existing graininess and ensure that standard development does not eliminate Digbeth’s distinctive qualities

More grit and authenticity

6.49 Despite all the progress of recent years, the city centre seems to respond to major national developers rather than local developers or end users. Many argue that the city centre is overdeveloped, that it does not have enough areas with grit, diversity, and authenticity. There is no area with the quality of the Northern Quarter in Manchester or Ropewalks in Liverpool. The city centre needs to have much more diversity. Business tourism is all right on the west and the retail has grown. The Eastside and Digbeth is a major opportunity to do a different kind of urban development.


Capitalise on the Custard Factory

6.74 There is a flourishing TV media and digital scene. That should be supported and expanded. More generally Birmingham should do much more to develop the cultural and creative industries around the Custard Factory and the Bond. At the moment these areas are not making the impact upon the city centre which they should and are a crucial missed opportunity. The lack of connectivity between them and the city centre is absolutely crucial. At the moment the area feels very cut off - and people say it is. But in fact it is very close to the city centre. There are opportunities to reduce the road scale and improve the feel and appeal of the approach areas. More generally the city council has not really seen the potential of these areas. Partly it is the grand projet mentality. Partly it is the failure to recognise the potential of creative industries. Partly it is a lack of imagination about what a vibrant dynamic creative city should look like. This is one of the most exciting parts of the city which has authenticity, grit, great buildings, waterways. In other cities it would be a jewel. It is absolutely critical that this area is developed in the right way for the city. It certainly must not be overdeveloped or sanitised by conventional development.

I think the recent proposals for the area tend more towards sanitising standard developments and are not a 'different kind of urban development'


It would be much much harder to develop the area in the approach suggested and take much longer but I think it would be worth the attempt

Sorry to disagree but I dont support what appears to be an unimaginative top down approach to developing this area. Small scale organic approach to development should be the major aim with the intention of retaining the current feel of the area (that is the point of a conservation area isnt it?) The thing that really fired my interest in the city's development was Parkinson's masterplan - here are a few quotes from it;


(The council's development plans) must show how diversity and grittiness can be achieved in different parts of the city centre. This should lead to a greater concentration of resources on existing but under-used areas like the Jewellery Quarter, the Custard Factory or the area around the Hippodrome. It will particularly need to show how the area which has the greatest potential - Digbeth - will be developed in ways that capitalise upon its existing graininess and ensure that standard development does not eliminate Digbeth’s distinctive qualities

More grit and authenticity

6.49 Despite all the progress of recent years, the city centre seems to respond to major national developers rather than local developers or end users. Many argue that the city centre is overdeveloped, that it does not have enough areas with grit, diversity, and authenticity. There is no area with the quality of the Northern Quarter in Manchester or Ropewalks in Liverpool. The city centre needs to have much more diversity. Business tourism is all right on the west and the retail has grown. The Eastside and Digbeth is a major opportunity to do a different kind of urban development.


Capitalise on the Custard Factory

6.74 There is a flourishing TV media and digital scene. That should be supported and expanded. More generally Birmingham should do much more to develop the cultural and creative industries around the Custard Factory and the Bond. At the moment these areas are not making the impact upon the city centre which they should and are a crucial missed opportunity. The lack of connectivity between them and the city centre is absolutely crucial. At the moment the area feels very cut off - and people say it is. But in fact it is very close to the city centre. There are opportunities to reduce the road scale and improve the feel and appeal of the approach areas. More generally the city council has not really seen the potential of these areas. Partly it is the grand projet mentality. Partly it is the failure to recognise the potential of creative industries. Partly it is a lack of imagination about what a vibrant dynamic creative city should look like. This is one of the most exciting parts of the city which has authenticity, grit, great buildings, waterways. In other cities it would be a jewel. It is absolutely critical that this area is developed in the right way for the city. It certainly must not be overdeveloped or sanitised by conventional development.

I think the recent proposals for the area tend more towards sanitising standard developments and are not a 'different kind of urban development'


It would be much much harder to develop the area in the approach suggested and take much longer but I think it would be worth the attempt

to an extent i agree, but firstly to point out, the purpose of a conservation are is to enure new development is not to the detriment of sensitive areas and new developments are justified.

now whilst i agree in your idealist view (no offense), i just cant help but think that it i near impossible to enforce or police unless the area is covered by atleast and outline planning consent...

i think this is the right way to develop large areas of places such like digbeth. allow smaller plots to be developed individually but we still need to keep in check the larger plot, plots which many of the smaller developers who have the benefit to add to the area wouldnt touch with a barge pole!

^^Exactly, and Warwick Bar is an example of site that smaller developers probably would not want to get into. You've got a Grade II listed building, a locally listed building, other listed buildings, a filled in canal basin (went round and behind the Banana warehouse) and wharf and god knows what chemicals are in the ground!

Here's an old map from 1890. You can see one basin clearly (Warwick Wharf area) and another just a few metres north of this. You can vaguely see the shape of the larger basin in satellite images today (below map). Chances are, most of this basin is actually intact such as the original brickwork. This will need to be cleared. Also, the material that has filled it in is probably waste material which is contaminated as a result of industry nearby. I don't know when the canal basin was filled in but looking at a hand drawn map from 1970, it was before the 1970s. Factories stretched all along the street down to the Forge Tavern. There were plenty of wharfs here and just north, following the River Rea, was a huge wharf called the Corporation Wharf.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Erebus555/Old%20pictures/Maps-OrdnanceSurvey1-2500-Epoch1-Bi.png

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d101/Erebus555/wharfwarwick.png

now whilst i agree in your idealist view (no offense)

None taken! But - they aren't my views they are the views of the highly regarded professor which the city presumably paid an awful lot of £ to in order for him to produce a report on a vision for the city centre, which they now appear to be about to ignore?

The city planners played very little part as I understand it in the development of the Custard Factory; one of the most admired cultural regeneration projects in UK if not wider. I dont know about the Bond. But I think the CF landed in their lap. Parkinson is saying they should capitalise on this good fortune and use their powers to encourage similar style development.

But the evidence instead is of top down blocks of fairly limited quality if you can judge from the pictures. I cant dispute your arguments about the difficulties of small scale development on the sites as I dont know enough about that.

As I understand it most of the typhoo factory is going to go too? - Bah!

^^The Typhoo tea factory isn't going, it's being refurbished. It's going to be a mixture of new build and refurb though. Not too sure what is going on with it - it seems to have gone quiet!

Typhoo was housing led, but the developers have probably missed that boat....would be great to have custard factory mark II there

this issue here is that us planners can only legitimately work within the confines of planning law and planning policy, and especially local authorities are rarely the people carrying out the work (normally private developers).

as a result, its extremely hard to plan and recomend things such as the custard factory and whilst i accept its an amazing asset, it can only develop over time by itself. you cant pan things like that with all the will in the world. yes we can designate conservation areas and listed buildings, and yes we can control general uses and scales, but beyond that, unless it can be demonstrated in court that more specific details are support by and in the interests of the public, nothing more can be done.

the council are not stupid and is a development is out of place, even if it conforms with policy, they will try to encourage investors to develop suitable developments.. but in the end, it is not for the councilt o decide, and if it conforms with policy, there is very little they can, and even less they can be seen, to do!

the council are not stupid and is a development is out of place, even if it conforms with policy, they will try to encourage investors to develop suitable developments.. but in the end, it is not for the councilt o decide, and if it conforms with policy, there is very little they can, and even less they can be seen, to do!

This is a bit disheartening!

The council have the vision to commission a city centre masterplan, a brilliant document is written to near universal acclaim, and all along the mechanisms to deliver it don't actually exist as the market is pretty much king?

Or does policy come with some teeth attached?

Genuinely interested to know how you are all aiming to deliver the Big City Plan etc within these constraints you mention.

That's a bit detached isn't it? "How you are all going to deliver..."

How we are all going to do it is better. Anyone can comment on planning applications, and whilst officially the council's powers are restricted on enforcing policy rather than moulding the city in their image, they can get pissy over the most minor things and therefore give a clear signal that a scheme needs to go back to the drawing board.

Tbh if councils had the power to over-prescribe things, we would be back in the 60's and 70's and there would be no design flair in new buildings.

^^^ exactly bio, and that is one of the beauties of the planning system. it can protect our historic assets and ensure to a degree that the mistakes of the 60's arent made again by virtue of protecting the past, but also allowing mr joe blogs to make comment on everything that gets built (so long as joe blogs is proactive enough to get involved)

and the big city plan is slightly different in that it is a masterplan document which is being adopted as a document known as an Area Action Plan (AAP), the same type of document being used to redevelop longbridge. Now AAPs have to pass through a lot of processes including atleast 3 public consultation statges (issues and options, prefered options and examination in public) and has to pass through an independant government planning inspector ...very time consuming yes, but in a general rule of thumb, the more stages planning policies pass through, the more weight it gains, and hense the more influence it has.

however, this is again restricted to the remit of what is allowed in planning ...in the public interest for example, is a project detrimental to its contect and surrounding etc... but beyond that, we can have policies we would like developments to confirm to but that doesnt stop developers ignoring them if they have just cause for doing so ...going through the appeal system for example.

do not worry that all these policies arent water tight, in my opinion they shouldnt be, and the planing system is not there to say how a city should look.. it is there to set parametres of acceptance, and within those parameter a developer if free to do what they like, and that is how you get a good development. city planning departments dont have all the answer, and nor do developers, but in the best situations, they both work together and produce great things.... brindley plave anyone?!?!?!

Ahhh, intelligent Woodhousen is finally back!

Tbh if councils had the power to over-prescribe things, we would be back in the 60's and 70's and there would be no design flair in new buildings.

There are loads of good 60s buildings in Brum and loads of average new ones. You cant rule design flair out of two whole decades. The best new areas like Brindley Place are the ones where my guess is that the council got (U)most(U) involved, and well done to all involved for that.

Personally I'd like to see the council take a similarly very close interest in the development of Digbeth and use its powers to the fullest extent to help it develop along the lines of the Masterplan. I'm not saying Digbeth should be preserved as it is - there are sites that need new build, although not all that many as you might think. And I have to say those renders for the area near Fellows Clayton are horrible. Sorry! They should be smaller scale, but if that isnt possible then something more in keeping with the historic build; and the materials are surely important - modern cladding will most likely look dreadful in this area.

As for getting involved I'll comment when and where I can as I have done previously eg in favour of airport runway extension ...(I'm not opposed to everything!)

but look at it this way... the money comes from private developers. the moment a local authority starts getting too big for its boots, the sooner the developers and investors stick their fingers up at the council and invest elsewhere...

and so not to play devils advicate, but regeneration of varying forms, styles, impacts and success if much better than no development at all!

It's a fine balance and we can all play our part by commenting.

I agree Joe that the council will have been highly involved in BP but that is with a single, large, wealthy developer whereas it is more difficult with a multitude of smaller ones.

Personally I think Warwick Bar looks great and is keeping the good buildings whilst getting rid of the rubiish, and making a 21st century design statement and ticking as many boxes as possible.

Found this blog article about Warwick Bar and a meeting this person had with ISIS which is worth a gander

ISIS meeting @ MADE 16th May 2008
by James Evans on Mon 19 May 2008 05:35 PM BST
This meeting threw up some more interesting people, Nick Bird from ISIS and Pam who is an ethno-botanist. Pam used to work at the Winterbourne Botanic Gardens, and is working with none other than Jon Sadler on his OPen Air Laboratories (OPAL) project. Small world. We discussed RG and then ISIS' plans for Warwick Bar, all interspersed with more general comments on regen. As there were fewer people this time I'll endeavour to group the things people said into distinct topics...

1. Families and long-term viability

ISIS are very concerned to attract families to their developments, as this ensures long term viability of projects. The problem is that this requires all sorts of infrastructure that developers can't provide in isolation. The need for good schools is perhaps one of the most intractable, and Pam has been doing some work with them in this vein. She mentioned the work of Birmingham Futures, who have evidence that young pros would like to stay in the city centre when they have kids. The need for long term viability is driven financially by the potential for pension funds to invest in developments that are seen as a safe long-term bet. Assumedly ISIS are keenly aware of this because they are part-owned by the Igloo fund already.

2. The need for distinctive developments

The second key priority for ISIS is to create more distinctive developments. The more generic developments aren't selling currently, a trend that is exacerbated by the credit crunch. We actually discussed the kinds of things that would be useful for architects and designers to know about a place, and that RG might be able to deliver. He was interested in local knowledge, like little stories about what buildings and what aspects of buildings matter, little routes that are used, special places and so forth. Julia mentioned the development in Manchester that was branded and marketed around a rare water plant that was found on the site.

3. Use of emotional mapping

This is the stuff that Phil talks about in the last entry on the blog, where we sorted Steph out with a crude emotional sensor and let her loose in Eastside with a GPS. The specifics have been covered, but it is worth noting how ISIS responded to the possibilities. Nick could see the utility of being able to turn qualitative data into quantitative, and it was felt that if enough walks could be amalgamated to identify places that are generally liked or disliked then it would be a powerful tool to use to persuade planners to do things. He mentioned the need to persuade them to spruce up Fazeley St.

4. Consultation over Warwick Bar

OK so this was where we first got an idea of what exactly it might be that we might do for these people. They want to consult key stakeholders about Warwick Bar, both in general and in terms of the specific creative industry needs that the development might meet. We now have a list of people who we need to do walking interviews with. We discussed whether we would need to be more prescriptive about the interviewing process (e.g. confine them to Warwick Bar, tell them to focus on one or two topics), but it was felt that it would be more interesting and revealing if we stuck to the original format, and MADE followed up our work with more focused sedentary interviews.

5. Health and waterways

ISIS seemed quite interested in the idea of doing some research on how people use waterways recreationally, both on the water, and by the water on towpaths. This started as a concern with the ways in whcih Warwick Bar is used, and developed into a discussion about the possibility of a more general nationwide research project. in terms of Warwick Bar, Nick mentioned that Birmingham is Britain's 'canal city'. Recreation and waterways also keys into a load of government research priorities - sustainable transport and climate change, fitness and obesity. ISIS have projects in Manchester that they would be keen to get us involved with too.

There are a number of angles that could be taken on this research, ranging from description of usage to identifying motivations for use, to design issues that may be used to encourage use. Then there are the different user categories, ranging from cyclists and joggers to fishermen and canal boaters. Myself and Phil had a very brief chat afterwards about the possible ways to package the research. A CASE studentship springs to mind, but I felt a more heavyweight project may be possible. Either way, ISIS would be a great partner given the topic. Note to self - email nick sketching some possibilities...

6.What to do for the Lab if we get no funding!

In general, do less for a shorter period of time! I need to talk to Dan about the portraits. Julia rightly commented that these are potentailly very important, as they are like 'a personal invite' to participate further. She also mooted the idea of forming an artists group to liaise with the architects after the lab. It was also suggested that Pam could provide photos of 'urban nature' from around Eastside to project at the lab, and she suggested that we could get groups of kids value mapping around Eastside.

As an aside, the book seemed to go down quite well, which has got to be a good sign too...

http://blogs.rescuegeography.org.uk/blog

http://thebondco.net/index.htm

I drive by this every time I go into town and only just noticed they have a website, there's some good pictures on there and a bit of interesting history about the canals in this area.