Really shit journalism from Skyscrapernews, so way off the mark and full of untruths. These guys are doing exactly what the journos do at the MEN.

The reason Dandara left Shepherd Robson was that the six staff working on the Chapel Wharf project left Shepherd Robson as they were poached by Hodder.

When Shepherd Robson approached Dandara with new staff to work on Chapel Wharf, Dandara quite rightly did not want the new staff who knew nothing of Chapel Wharf development but wanted people who they had worked with throughout the scheme. Shepherd Robson did NOT walk away, they were dismissed from the project and which people and which company do you think Dandara went to ?

Had the journos at skyscrapernews done some homework they would know Shepherd Robson do have a good portfolio but on this occasion were not capable of doing the job and it had nothing to do with budgets it was because Shepherd had lost the six people working on the Chapel Wharf project to a competitor.

This all said and done it does not change my opinion that the Chapel Wharf development and in particular the tower is terrible and should be re-designed

A. You tell us the truth.
B. You tell us the truth.
C. Nothing has changed.

Understand what you're saying Mr Manchester however a recent article from The Architects Journal also reports on the situation along similar lines.


News - 21/03/2007 - Architect denies Chapel Wharf claims

Sheppard Robson has hit back at claims it did not have the resources to carry out the Chapel Wharf scheme in Manchester, after being replaced on the controversial high-rise project.


Developer Dandara, which has turned to local firm Hodder Associates to take the huge skyscraper development forward, said the decision to change design teams was based on Sheppard Robson’s lack of a ‘strong core team’ and ‘resources’ in the city.


However, Sheppard Robson has disputed the allegations, stating that, contrary to Dandara’s claims, the practice actually walked away from the job because of ‘issues’ about the potential quality of the enormous 41-storey scheme next to the Lowry Hotel on the River Irwell (pictured).


A spokeswoman for the firm said: ‘The split was amicable – but did not relate to our resourcing of the project or the strength of our team in Manchester – we've just moved to bigger offices.'


She added: ‘There were other issues that influenced our decision to leave the project.


‘We felt we couldn't achieve the quality of building appropriate to the site with the funding made available by Dandara.'


Despite winning planning permission last year, the scheme has not been well received by CABE, which has now examined the designs on three separate occasions.


The last time the scheme was reviewed, back in March 2006, the design watchdog said it still had fundamental concerns with the project despite revisions to the original proposals.


The report reads: ‘We repeat that we think that the basic problem is one of overdevelopment; we have yet to see any evidence to suggest that the combination of this quantum of development, with the types of building forms chosen [tower and podium slab block], in this arrangement, can produce an acceptable solution.'


It goes on: ‘We do not wish to comment on what we see as minor amendments to the scheme, as, as we have said previously, our concerns cannot be resolved by tinkering with the design; a fundamental rethink is required.’


The Architects' Journal






Interesting insight though. The plot thickens.....

When Shepherd Robson approached Dandara with new staff to work on Chapel Wharf, Dandara quite rightly did not want the new staff who knew nothing of Chapel Wharf development but wanted people who they had worked with throughout the scheme.
They wanted to keep the same people that had made such a terrible job of it, oh how commendable! Exactly what the project did need was a team of fresh people with a different perspective. In any case the individuals working on projects often change, particularly when the design stages are finished and the building is being drawn up for construction; prior knowledge of a scheme does not necessarily engender a team with any extra ability to work on it, continuity is just easier.

The site t'other day.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/garybaldy/CRW_0515.jpg

Thanks for that Mr Manchester. It just goes to show.

Thanks for that Mr Manchester. It just goes to show.


Hi guys I can only tell what I know from I know to be the truth from an unbiased position. I have no axe to grind against Dandara or Shepherd. I just wanted people to know the truth. I stilll think Chapel Wharf is terrible development and such a wasted opportunity, great height but shit design. I really hate the Edge development and next to this will be Chapel Wharf surely two of the worst designs to grace the skyline of Greater Manchester. But at least we can cut through the bulllshit regarding the architects and their masters. Their is still no getting away from the fact Shepherd lost their staff to a competitor then cried foul when they lost the job. Surely a good example of look after your staff or pay the price. The world of business in this great city of ours is still as ruthless as it ever was !

Fair enough Mr Manchester.

Let's have another look eh lads?

http://i2.tinypic.com/t685ll.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j159/rolybling2/chapelwarf.jpg

The tower's a little plain vanilla, but not that bad.
Pity there's not a tad more open space by the river, or a little more top dressing to cap it off.
But the tower's OK I reckon. It keeps coming back to that multistorey car park podium.

Sorry about the image width mucking up the thread.

^^ I've seen a lot worse renders and that's what buildings seem to be judged on in these here parts....

apart from the cladding it doesnt really look much better than a council block in the 1960's!

Another render.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/SalChapelWharfB6403.jpg

Our renders are better than your renders....

That's what SSC is all about when you think about it.

I'm thinking of doing a body-swerve but no-one will miss me anyroad...:(

I'm thinking of doing a body-swerve but no-one will miss me anyroad...:(

Sorry? What did you say your name was again?
:lurker:

Sorry? What did you say your name was again?
:lurker:
Wotdidatellya.....

Wait 'til ya see my renders pal.....

Just a thought....


The ITV programme "The X Factor" have booked the Lowery Hotel at Chapel Wharf for auditions for their 2007 series.

These auditions start on May 15th and end on June 7th.

Perhaps construction work will be delayed until after these auditions have finished due to the obvious sound issues that the construction yard would cause for the network (one of many possible implications).

Surely ITV would have ensured that major building work would not interfere with the filming schedule of their highest rated TV show?


Just a thought...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/XFactorTitles.jpg

Just a thought....


The ITV programme "The X Factor" have booked the Lowery Hotel at Chapel Wharf for auditions for their 2007 series.

These auditions start on May 15th and end on June 7th.

Perhaps construction work will be delayed until after these auditions have finished due to the obvious sound issues that the construction yard would cause for the network (one of many possible implications).

Surely ITV would have ensured that major building work would not interfere with the filming schedule of their highest rated TV show?


Just a thought...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/86/XFactorTitles.jpg

The X Factor have used the Lowry for the past two years and the contestants que all the way on the bridge side. I cannot see how the construction could interfere anyway as they use the function rooms which are the riverside in the middle of the hotel. Considering some of the Psycho's who do the auditions any construction noise would surely be more pleasant than some of the screeching.

Yeh, interesting point, but I doubt it would affect it too much. As Mr-Manc said, they've been using it for the past two years, at which some point construction of The Edge would have been going on.

None of these are Chapel Wharf but all are pretty close by (especially the final shot).

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u180/markydeedroppics/TheLowryHotelManchester.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u180/markydeedroppics/TheEdgeSalford.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u180/markydeedroppics/RiverIrwellBridgeManchester.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u180/markydeedroppics/RiverViewSalfordandManchester.jpg

Today.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/Picture3975.jpg

Looks like the site is ready for construction to start.

Looks like the site is ready for construction to start.

more or less!

so when will it people?! :)

By my definition of construction, it has already started and has been for months. A lot of piling work was being done last time I went by.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/232/508697151_06312056e9.jpg?v=0

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/232/508697151_06312056e9.jpg?v=0

oh come on, dont be so agest? there is nothing wrong with those buildings,

Nothing to do with age. Raquel welch is fit, my gran isnt.
Actually, I just dont like how it interacts (..lacks) with the river side etc.

cnvert the car park to park and walkway then. It will fit in, just needs the Council to compulsory purchase it.

Taken today.

Great vantage point to capture the progess over the coming years.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/Picture4014.jpg

Hey guys the bottom right hand side of the Lowry Hotel that used to be the sales and marketing suite with Countryside Properties for the Edge is now being fitted out for Dandara for the Chapel Wharf development.There was a guy putting up Dandara signs and the guys inside said they were starting work to fit it out for Dandara. And there seems to be plenty activity behind those hoardings! :)

Who fancies a job then?!!

http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSeeking/job30125992.html

Who fancies a job then?!!

http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSeeking/job30125992.html
lol @ not one mention of 'Salford' in that description :ohno:

With opening the expansion of our Northwest operation we are now seeking to employ an extremely talented Senior Project Manager for our Landmark new Scheme, Chapel Wharf, in Manchester City Centre.Comprising of almost 1000 units of residential accommodation housed in a fantastic 40+ storey tower and a further 20+ storey building this project will be one of Manchester’s jewels.

One of Manchester's jewels? - you've got to laugh. The proceeds from this dire, dire development will in all likelihood help to finance a genuine "jewel" in Leeds - Dandara will be developing co-developing Criterion Place over there.

Don't know if the first render has ever been seen? The second one certainly has.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/af.jpg

Spring 2010... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Yeah, pretty sure its been shown before Jerb. That or there was a smiliar one.

The site today. Well, they've taken the container off the site. Progress!?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c388/Corris_/P06-06-07_14.jpg

Well, at least there's some open space in that part of the city centre now.. ;)

Hello all, ive been one of them freaky lurkers for a while now, thought it was time to join. Hope i can contribute something worthy, i'll start with this.

i know its just a 'BOX' as we hear so much but i like it!!!

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa68/123manclass/pano3.jpg

ive also included 3 hardmen street and and lighthouse in there!!

Sorry, i hope prestwich red doesnt mind me using the pic!!! thanks

Hello all, ive been one of them freaky lurkers for a while now, thought it was time to join. Hope i can contribute something worthy, i'll start with this.

i know its just a 'BOX' as we hear so much but i like it!!!

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa68/123manclass/pano3.jpg

ive also included 3 hardmen street and and lighthouse in there!!

Welcome Crazy. Thanks. Looks great. :)

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa68/123manclass/pano3.jpg

Messing about and doing another bad job of it. :colgate:

Possible future view. Chapel Wharf and Ramada site.

BTW. Doesn't the Irwell look impressive in that pic. Clean and full.(for once)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/x.jpg

Ramada is ripe for a Tower, would bookend Deansgate Perfect and would create an amazing canyon with No.1 Deansgate

You can put another tower in the foreground aswell!
:gossip:

Dont any of you read the AJ?

You can put another tower in the foreground aswell!
:gossip:

Dont any of you read the AJ?

Stop it.

Don't you answer your PM's anymore your Lordship?

**

Yeah sorry about that.
I'm back - thats all that matters eh?

Yeah sorry about that.
I'm back - thats all that matters eh?

Yeah sorry about that.
I'm back - thats all that matters eh?

Yeah! That's all that matters. :wink2:

Erm.... Like that? The only piece of vacant land left.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/xsx.jpg

You can put another tower in the foreground aswell!
:gossip:

Dont any of you read the AJ?

If it was in AJ, it can't be that much of a secret?

Go on then. :poke:

Erm.... Like that? The only piece of vacant land left.


Are you sure? :wink:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/garybaldy/lrw.jpg

Cheers for the snippet Longy , personally i would'nt miss that building ,, but i would have prefered that horrible brown building over the road next to Mark Addy's to be dropped instead ( forgot its name)
If all the rumoured and planned tower's in this area come off this is where Manchester's main cluster will form .

Is this the little one overlooking the river? I don't think i'd miss it either. It hogs a bit. Cheers.

Blimey, so just in the space of a few hundred metres of the River Irwell, heading north, you'd have the 16 storey Leftbank, CJC, maybe a taller Manchester House and Albert Bridge House on the right, a bit further down, the 40 Storey LRW Tower, then the 40 Storey Chapel Wharf Tower, 20 Storey Edge Towers and 25 storey North Tower on the Left, then the Ramada Redevelopment (crying out for a tower), then the 46 & 31 Storey Greengate towers, followed by the 20 storey Tempus Tower!

Road canyons are boring, we'll have a river canyon!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/xsx.jpg

now u see those 3 buildings to me just look to grey, and there's not enuff windows. im not too keen if i am honest

I worked for six months in the Tax Office at Aldine House (my first proper job), and I fell in love with it then.

Since when it has grown on me further.

Salford cannot be so blind as to allow the demolition of their best sixties building complex?

I worked for six months in the Tax Office at Aldine House (my first proper job), and I fell in love with it then.

Since when it has grown on me further.

Salford cannot be so blind as to allow the demolition of their best sixties building complex? but they probably will. Would be a tragic loss.

I dont think there is any intention to demolish the whole complex - just bits of it - including the LRW offices.

I dont think there is any intention to demolish the whole complex - just bits of it - including the LRW offices.


could they not be subtly steered over the road to the neo-georgian "Ralli Courts" complex? If there is one 70s development I would dearly like to see removed, it is that one.

I dont think there is any intention to demolish the whole complex - just bits of it - including the LRW offices.that’s the best part, the relationship of the black box in the courtyard of the white offices is that part most worth keeping.

could they not be subtly steered over the road to the neo-georgian "Ralli Courts" complex? If there is one 70s development I would dearly like to see removed, it is that one.I agree. That immediate side of the river looks a mess and the new developments so far have just added to the ad hock cityscape, the only part that is coherent and legible is the LRW offices. With the proposed work to establish a link through to the riverside by the Lowry the complex could really be able to shine. The neo-Georgian and nasty PoMo over the road will never look good and is slap bang in the way of extending Spinningfields to Salford Central and Chapel St.

Bruntwood have started to get a little re-development happy of late, half their portfolio is either in the midst of gutting/refurbishment/extension, or being proposed/flattened for new build. For a company built on giving 50-70’s unloved offices a lick of paint it is a massive change of strategy. All the new A grade offices going up around town must have given them quite a scare.

I love that building, both in its own right, because it's such high quality and LRW clearly pulled out all the stops on it, and because that and aldine house respect the river rather than being built up to it. I can see where bruntwood are coming from - having two stories and one occupier on a site right next door to spinningfields must look like money being burned to them. But they'd defo be off my christmas card list. Any chance of putting the breaks on them longy?

Hi guys,

Just a quick Update on Dandara - Chapel Wharf Project, not read previous posts - so i might be repeating a few things.

The Architects in place for the scheme are now Hodders Associates.

The Acquired commercial unit at Lowry Hotel covered in blue advertising is set to be the sales and marketing suite for the proposed project.

The project is set to be rebranded - Aura.

Theres a real sense of progress now - still at early stages, there wont be much activity for a few months, but watch out for a ballon..............

Catch you laters peeps........

SE

Aura? What the fuck!

Aura, Axis, Origin, Lumieire, they're buildings not the latest line from celebrity perfumiers.

Hi guys,

Just a quick Update on Dandara - Chapel Wharf Project, not read previous posts - so i might be repeating a few things.

The Architects in place for the scheme are now Hodders Associates.

The Acquired commercial unit at Lowry Hotel covered in blue advertising is set to be the sales and marketing suite for the proposed project.

The project is set to be rebranded - Aura.

Theres a real sense of progress now - still at early stages, there wont be much activity for a few months, but watch out for a ballon..............

Catch you laters peeps........

SE

BITN? Another Dandara employee? Give us some new renders then. :naughty:

C:\Documents and Settings\Yashwantlal Suthar\Desktop\aura

you wanted a fresh new render here it is:

You need to upload it to http://www.imageshack.us/ silent bob :)

Has this been redesigned then or what?

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2044/aurasq6.png

try again

cheers Silent Bob at the Irwell

eeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr thats not fresh... or new...

Sorry, its the first time I saw it, and thought I would post it.

Appologies if its been on before or displayed in the past somewhere else.

Has this been redesigned then or what?
Nope same old cack low rise and podium, bearable tower. Lets hope Hodders don’t want to associated with the shite as it was and get brutal with the scheme, in every sense. If only CABE had some real power, we should not be seeing schemes going ahead that the national body for architectural quality refuses to comment on because its of such lowly ambition and blatant commercial cynicism.

Im really surprised that a practice of Hodder's standing has not only taken on the project but allowed Dandara to use their name in a press release.

I hope Silent Edge's comments (who appears to be more on the construction / consultancy side than development) in post 803 are indicative of a comprehensive overhaul of the project rather than progress of the appalling consented scheme.

Hodder have done some cack recently though have they not?

Are you thinking of their Water Street scheme? If so, I completely agree. Former Stirling prize winners too. tut tut.

Very sad because their portfolio up until recently was flawless and ive seen one or two things by them which look,at best, poor and, at worse, cynical.

I quite like the fact that the developers don't give a shit about the city or its people. Very urban, definately something about urban layers. :yes:



:dunno:

Latest on this one??

Latest on this one??

That about sums it up at the moment. New project manager wouldn't comment and tried to hide his apperance.

http://www.perfect.co.uk/2005/10/tumbleweed_head_falls.jpg

Oh dear. Another tower not being built then.

:ohno:

Oh dear. Another tower not being built then.

Site is cleared. Advertised for a project manager.(probably got one now) It's going ahead. They all are!! :banana:

Surely the longer this site remains empty the better?

No building is better than being stuck with a bad building, especially as there are so many better proposals out there chasing the same investors.

Seems there has been plenty of frantic turd polishing going on at Dandara in what is surely an acknowledgement of the paucity of Chapel Wharf's design.

Revised application concerning amendments to the facade treatments, landscaping and ground floor commercial / retail uses goes before committee TOMORROW

http://i6.tinypic.com/6f67oeq.jpg

further images: http://iclipseweb.salford.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/05132331.pdf

link to full application http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=JKWV8BNP40000




As you can see, it STILL looks utterly shit. An improvement yes, but still shit because they have failed to acknowledge that the problems with this project do not stem from the cladding but from the dire form and massing thanks fundamentally to the obscene overdevelopment of the site and the cynical cost-saving measure of positioning the car parking in an ungainly podium. This has the effect of isolating the apartments blocks from the street and reducing the quality and quantity of public realm, so essential to service the needs of nearly 1000 apartments.



I refer once again to CABE's rational and well argued comments from their design review panel.

We think that the streets and podium spaces will feel oppressive and will have a low environmental quality


Quite simply, we think the blocks are placed too close together, and that issues of daylight, wind, views and privacy have not been fully addressed. We are particularly concerned about the single aspect, north facing flats at the base of the blocks; the flats will have a low environmental quality and will not be, in our view, acceptable places to live

We do not think that the proposal has properly addressed Chapel Street, both in terms of how the blocks and podium engage with the street edge or in terms of the visual impact the blocks will have on the street

In terms of the overall massing, we think that there is not enough differentiation between the slab blocks and the tower. The slab block forms are ungainly, and we think that the heights should be substantially reduced. We find the chosen splayed geometry of the three slab blocks quite curious, as it works against basic townscape principles and does not appear to offer any obvious benefits


To conclude, we feel that the basic planning of the site needs to be rethought from first principles, with the forms working with basic urban design principles (fronts and backs, street frontages, pedestrian and vehicular routes), rather than treating the buildings as objects in isolation. We think that the basic problem is one of overdevelopment; we have not seen any evidence that this quantum of development can be acceptably provided on this site


Really, really damning comments and perhaps indicate why I feel the development will make for such a poor investment as compared with other schemes around the city.

What CABE are saying is the the fundamental faults with the scheme cannot be rectified by minor adjustments to the positioning of the various slabs. Rather they stem from fundamental over development of the site and a quite cynical cost saving measures such as stuffing the car parking above ground in ungainly podium structures. Dandara should be utterly condemned for dumping such a greedy and horrible scheme on the city.

Them fiddlying round the edges with it only makes thing worse.

Its the old 'wobbly table leg' syndrome where you start taking bits off the other three legs to compensate and end up with nothing.

This scheme is fundametally flawed and i have feeling Salford will see that. I do however think it is too late and this will be waved through.

Sadly, yes I think it will be waved through too. The planners have tied their hands by consenting the previous outline and detailed applications for the site. What worries me is the consistent support the URC have lent this scheme. They seem to have been somewhat effective in raising design aspirations for Central Salford and are a standard consultee for all significant planning applications in the area but their support for this, one of the most prominent and affecting applications in the city, despite CABE's damning verdict is both baffling and alarming.

The tower on its own would be fine, but the huge hulking block next to it is a no no.

At least the project is still alive i guess

I actually reckons this looks good from a distance, with the 2 talls, good from the river, and good from Chapel St, it's just the bit in between the river and road.

Above level car parking is always goin g to be difficult to make work. Imperial point at the Quays, could get away with it as the Quays at the time was largely undeveloped, Fusion on Middlewood Locks can get away with it, as there's nothing else there (at present), but this for all intents and purposes is City Centre.

My only guess is that Salford URC were desperate to get their Chapel St Regeneration kicked off and thought that this scheme could give it a focal point ie the tower and a critical mass ie 1,000 aparrtments.

With a good portion of this scheme serving the prestigious Lowry Hotel, the main failings may well in practice be passable and I do not feel it is a write-off in every sense.

Importantly this should be one of five towers rising at the same time along with the other of Manchester's major schemes.

5 Towers rising in 2008? That'd be fab.

Piccadilly, Canopus (x2), Chapel Wharf and Gravity, all over 100m!

5 Towers rising in 2008? That'd be fab.

Piccadilly, Canopus (x2), Chapel Wharf and Gravity, all over 100m!

:drool: 2008 it is then. :)

PS. Don't forget Mediacity which will be by far the biggest project.

5 Towers rising in 2008? That'd be fab.

Piccadilly, Canopus (x2), Chapel Wharf and Gravity, all over 100m!

Warning! Wishful thinking detected! :nuts:

I would be over the moon if all 5 of those would be u/c next year. I would be happy if 3 are u/c. I'm expecting 2 or 3 in reality...

I still like it. I like the thought that 1000's of people would pay a fortune to live in these hell holes, these hell holes in central Salford. I like that it's overdeveloped. Like HK or something, really urban.

I still like it. I like the thought that 1000's of people would pay a fortune to live in these hell holes, these hell holes in central Salford. I like that it's overdeveloped. Like HK or something, really urban.

When did you get a marketing job with Dandara Kids? Reserve me two, two bedroom apartments please.(one for myself and the other to let) Cheers. :)

^^ Sure. What would you like, luxury or double luxury?

^^ Sure. What would you like, luxury or double luxury?

Seeing as your a mate and you've only just started at Dandara, I'll have the penthouse apartment. Any chance you can throw the parking in for free? :lol:

Reserve me two, two bedroom apartments please.(one for myself and the other to let)

£40 p.w. including parking spot, and an introduction to your dealer - this is my final offer.

Can't quite believe they're planning on building deck-access flats in downtown Salford. This is like Church St carpark meets Hulme Crescents.

Seeing as your a mate and you've only just started at Dandara, I'll have the penthouse apartment. Any chance you can throw the parking in for free? :lol:

:happy: I think i just got myself an extra cubicle wall.

Gone in. (sort of)

http://iclipseweb.salford.gov.uk/AniteIM.WebSearch/Results.aspx

I see the 'in' access road to the Lowry hotel has now closed, the site border is now against the hotel carpark, so only one in/out car option. Does this mean some action is imminent?

Why is this thread in this section?

Well... we did at one point put our faith in this one actually being under construction.

Maybe we were being too optimistic.

Digger on site today, could work (eventually) be starting again?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/1616895160_1340871114.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2404/1616877490_9a9c8274dc.jpg

Probably not..

Probably not..

Nope it ain't happin just yet, you will need to wait at least another year or two for this now, don't be fooled by the diggers, mark my words!:(

I know. I'm not being fooled!

Nope it ain't happin just yet, you will need to wait at least another year or two for this now, don't be fooled by the diggers, mark my words!:(


If it's because of a redesign I'll wait.(probably isn't)

It was working properly for all of ten minutes (SCC's planning portal) before it imploded again. (The leisure facility is attached to the main tower)

Managed to salvage this.

07/55596/FUL

Lowry Hotel
50 Dearmans Place/Chapel Wharf
Salford
M3 5LH

Erection of a pedestrian bridge link between The Lowry Hotel and proposed leisure facility

Hodder Associates

http://iclipseweb.salford.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/05305120.pdf

Financial Times

CITY HOUSING PLANS 'MOTHBALLED' AS BUY-TO-LET CRISIS INTENSIFIES

The government's plans to accelerate home-building are under threat from the growing crisis in the buy-to-let sector, which is leading builders to "mothball" city centre developments until demand from investors picks up. A slump in the demand for residential investments in areas such as the Midlands and the North has delayed the building of hundreds of new homes. Dandara, which specialises in city centre building, has delayed the next phase of development of a major construction project in Manchester, citing the "material impact on the buy-to-let market" of tightening lending criteria in the current credit crunch.

Well this one can be taken out of the construction forum then!

Credit Crunch report on Channel 4 News.

Just showed Dandara's St Georges Island scheme and said Dandara have suspended their future proposals until all of their current apartments have sold.

That's Canopus and Crown gone aswell. Which development is next?

Credit Crunch report on Channel 4 News.

Just showed Dandara's St Georges Island scheme and said Dandara have suspended their future proposals until all of their current apartments have sold.

That's Canopus and Crown gone aswell. Which development is next?

Canapus and Crown ar'nt Danadra's jerb ,,, There will always be developments thats dont materalise , as Fergie says its squeaky bum time the developer's that are more confident will take the risks , and build .

Canopus and Crown ar'nt Danadra's jerb ,,, There will always be developments thats dont materalise , as Fergie says its squeaky bum time the developer's that are more confident will take the risks , and build .

I know H. I should have worded it differently. Soz. West?

Not as bad as we thought. I don't mean the proposal, I mean the possible delay in construction.

Buy-to-let schemes put on hold as demand flags
09:40 | 19.11.07

A growing crisis in the buy-to-let sector is leading builders to 'mothball' city centre developments until investor demand picks up. Financial Times

A slump in residential investment demand in areas such as the North and the Midlands is leading to the delay of hundreds of new homes.

Dandara, a city centre building specialist which has about 3,000 homes either under construction or going through the planning process, is to delay the development of the next phase of its land bank in Manchester until existing schemes are sold.

'We will release the next phase of our land bank sometime in the new year,' said Hugh McGuinness, sales director at Dandara. 'It might be a little later now than it would have been.'

Steven Stone, chief executive of Crest Nicholson said: 'The recent tightening of lending criteria by the major building societies has had a material impact on the buy-to-let market, particularly in the oversupplied city centre apartment markets outside London,'

Kevin Cammack, analyst at Kaupthing, said there were two markets. 'There’s been a divergence between the professional and the amateur investors.'

Amateurs who buy small numbers of homes have been 'hammered by the lending criteria, while for the professional [who typically buys 20-40 homes at a time], the money is still there.

From MC.

Make your own mind up. ^^

Busy bees

Dandara Lettings celebrates its busiest period ever for rental properties


With individuals treading carefully in the property market, there seems to be a more solid trend for renting and Dandara are one company who are illustrating this point.

Formed just over a year ago to offer a bespoke lettings service for tenants, Dandara Lettings is now managing over 300 properties in developments such as The award winning Lock Building on Whitworth Street West, Spectrum on Blackfriars Road and the Castlefield based developments; Base, 360 and Saint George’s island.

Dandara affords its success to Manchester’s thriving economy. Vicky McCarrick, Dandara Lettings Manager comments: “Home to some of the largest universities in the UK and as a growing centre for business and finance, with the largest financial services sector outside London, Manchester is attracting huge inward investment. As a result, Manchester seems to be enjoying an influx of young professionals.

“With many aspiring to stylish city-centre living at an affordable price, Dandara’s offering is proving to be extremely popular amongst this growing market and as an increasing number of both landlords and tenants seek us out through recommendation, we are confident that demand will continue to rise.”

It comes as no surprise to Mick Wardrobe of M1 that Dandara Lettings has experienced such high demand: “The rental market is currently booming in Manchester because of the high number of both professionals and students in the city.

“There is always going to be a requirement for good quality, contemporary apartments in prime city centre locations that offer a good standard of living and value for money. This combination of both is in short supply elsewhere in central Manchester, but Dandara’s unique product allows tenants to live the lifestyle that they desire.”

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/2305ChapelWharfBlockB_pic1.jpg

What's changed?

erm... nothing. I just haven't seen it for a while :)

What's changed?

Still shit.

I like the outside tables... rather generous balconies down there I wouldn't mind one... even if they are slightly overlooked and perhaps prone to having empty cans of Stella thrown at them

I like the outside tables... rather generous balconies down there I wouldn't mind one... even if they are slightly overlooked and perhaps prone to having empty cans of Stella thrown at them

I quite like the footstool in the flat on the sixth floor.

Spoke to Lady at at Dandara next the Lowery Hotel, she seemed to be under the impression that they were gearing for a February start (both sales and construction) that was a few weeks ago

probably prior to dandara's mothballing decision

MEN Homes today, page 4-5:

Dandara says reports they have mothballed their Chapel Wharf scheme are untrue, with ground work starting this week.

MEN Homes today, page 4-5:

Dandara says reports they have mothballed their Chapel Wharf scheme are untrue, with ground work starting this week.

Hope so but has anyone seen the site this week?

B4mmy, looks like you may need to move this thread once again!

MEN Homes today, page 4-5:

Dandara says reports they have mothballed their Chapel Wharf scheme are untrue, with ground work starting this week.

Believe it when I see it!!

Believe it when I see it!!

Ditto.

It is probably unrelated but they were painting all the hoardings around the Lowry and tarting it up on Saturday and generally making more of a seperation between the site and the hotel.

Passed the site on the train today, heavy machinery being moved in...

Is it possible that its only the podium section with new facilities for the Lowry that is getting built? If it is the broader development starting for real, I hope its just the tower on its own and not the sundry horrific low rises.

What the f**K!! Have we had a new batch of workers come in from eastern europe all of a sudden?!!

This is unbelieveable!

If I remember correctly the tower was the first phase. So its quite possible that by the time the tower's done changes to the market could stop the short silver turd ever coming to fruition.

Mind you the parking will be under the shorter building. Would it be going against some planning rules and contracts for apartments with parking if they built the tower and then based on the economics of it all decided against the shorter building? Surely they'd have to build a car park anyway, even if there were no flats above it. Imaging being stuck with a naff multi-storey car park next to the tower.:uh:

So much for the perceived slow down! I'm sure just the high value tower phase will be built, as its the bit overlooking the water, this will add sales value. I would'nt be suprised to see Dandara then sell of the remaining surface plot as carparking will I assume be under this for the tower element.

Fancy shmancy website holding thingy...

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4651/cfwu2.jpg

So much for the perceived slow down! I'm sure just the high value tower phase will be built, as its the bit overlooking the water, this will add sales value.

Plus the Lowry were keen on the tower getting built too.

Did Hodder take this over from SR? Did they amend the design of the tower?

If this is about to start the next few months will be very interesting in the Manc forum with Greengate , Axis , and Gravity also definatly starting .
It's like the 53 , you wait for ages then 4 come at the same time :laugh:

Don't forget Piccadilly! ;)

Don't forget Piccadilly! ;)


Shhhh ,,, thats the fucker ive been waiting for for 2 years , im saying nowt about that one till it bloody starts :)

Did Hodder take this over from SR? Did they amend the design of the tower?


yeah I posted images of the updated facade design a while back. Its still the same shit underneath though.

I really hope this awful development does not scupper any of the better quality schemes out there.

NOTE TO INVESTORS - INVEST IN QUALITY. DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THIS DEVELOPMENT!
(see various CABE design reviews (http://www.cabe.org.uk/default.aspx?contentitemid=1825)).

Seems there has been plenty of frantic turd polishing going on at Dandara in what is surely an acknowledgement of the paucity of Chapel Wharf's design.

Revised application concerning amendments to the facade treatments, landscaping and ground floor commercial / retail uses goes before committee TOMORROW

http://i6.tinypic.com/6f67oeq.jpg

further images: http://iclipseweb.salford.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/05132331.pdf

link to full application http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=JKWV8BNP40000




As you can see, it STILL looks utterly shit. An improvement yes, but still shit because they have failed to acknowledge that the problems with this project do not stem from the cladding but from the dire form and massing thanks fundamentally to the obscene overdevelopment of the site and the cynical cost-saving measure of positioning the car parking in an ungainly podium. This has the effect of isolating the apartments blocks from the street and reducing the quality and quantity of public realm, so essential to service the needs of nearly 1000 apartments.



I refer once again to CABE's rational and well argued comments from their design review panel.

We think that the streets and podium spaces will feel oppressive and will have a low environmental quality


Quite simply, we think the blocks are placed too close together, and that issues of daylight, wind, views and privacy have not been fully addressed. We are particularly concerned about the single aspect, north facing flats at the base of the blocks; the flats will have a low environmental quality and will not be, in our view, acceptable places to live

We do not think that the proposal has properly addressed Chapel Street, both in terms of how the blocks and podium engage with the street edge or in terms of the visual impact the blocks will have on the street

In terms of the overall massing, we think that there is not enough differentiation between the slab blocks and the tower. The slab block forms are ungainly, and we think that the heights should be substantially reduced. We find the chosen splayed geometry of the three slab blocks quite curious, as it works against basic townscape principles and does not appear to offer any obvious benefits


To conclude, we feel that the basic planning of the site needs to be rethought from first principles, with the forms working with basic urban design principles (fronts and backs, street frontages, pedestrian and vehicular routes), rather than treating the buildings as objects in isolation. We think that the basic problem is one of overdevelopment; we have not seen any evidence that this quantum of development can be acceptably provided on this site


Really, really damning comments and perhaps indicate why I feel the development will make for such a poor investment as compared with other schemes around the city.

What CABE are saying is the the fundamental faults with the scheme cannot be rectified by minor adjustments to the positioning of the various slabs. Rather they stem from fundamental over development of the site and a quite cynical cost saving measures such as stuffing the car parking above ground in ungainly podium structures. Dandara should be utterly condemned for dumping such a greedy and horrible scheme on the city.

You mean this?! :)

cabe design review comments to date:

Chapel Wharf

Review date: 23 June 2005

Lead designer: Sheppard Robson

Client: Dandara

Local authority: City of Salford

Region: North West

Description: A scheme for two tall buildings for residential, office, retail, and leisure use, with car parking and landscaping.


CABE also commented on this scheme on 01 September 2005 and 01 March 2006.

We have a number of fundamental concerns about this project, and sense that overall, too much accommodation is being proposed for the site. Our concerns relate mainly to the site planning and the massing of the slab blocks.

We find the site planning problematic on a number of levels. The issue of fronts and backs is confused. One half of Clowes Street is planned as a ‘back’, with the substation and car park ramp elevation, but it leads into a ‘front’, the new entrance square to the newly built Edge and proposed tower. We think it is unfortunate that these two residential buildings are accessed by what is in effect, a service road. Similarly, the main entrance into the scheme, the road between Blocks B and E leads into the Lowry Hotel service yard. The site planning lacks basic legibility and as such, will be difficult to comprehend.

The front and back issue is linked to the proposed ground floor uses. We are concerned that the continuous 'skinning' of the ground floor slab blocks with commercial/retail uses will not be sustainable, and would suggest that a more realistic ground floor use strategy, related to a developed front and back street strategy, (ie concentrating retail on the fronts) is put forward.

We do not think that the proposal has properly addressed Chapel Street, both in terms of how the blocks and podium engage with the street edge or in terms of the visual impact the blocks will have on the street. No street elevations were produced for the presentation. Whilst we are aware that the status of the site across Chapel Street is unclear, we do not think that the relationship between the two sites has been considered; one would expect, for example, that the existing routes under the railway viaduct (which might at some later stage be opened up, and would change the way people move through the wider area) might have a bearing on the way the scheme is planned. Similarly, we do not think that the pedestrian desire lines from the bridge have been taken into account.

However, our main concern relates to the planning and massing of the three slab blocks. Quite simply, we think the blocks are placed too close together, and that issues of daylight, wind, views and privacy have not been fully addressed. We are particularly concerned about the single aspect, north facing flats at the base of the blocks; the flats will have a low environmental quality and will not be, in our view, acceptable places to live. The supplementary information provided (wind and sun studies, and the reduction of the block widths) do not allay our fears. Whilst we do not have any particular concerns with the design of the tower itself, our general concerns about the site planning and environmental impact, in relation to the tower, still apply.

On a more positive note, we are pleased to see that generally the flats are wider than they are deep, and that the ends of the blocks are animated with windows, and do not have the (sadly) more usual, blank, flank wall.

In terms of the overall massing, we think that there is not enough differentiation between the slab blocks and the tower. The slab block forms are ungainly, and we think that the heights should be substantially reduced. We find the chosen splayed geometry of the three slab blocks quite curious, as it works against basic townscape principles and does not appear to offer any obvious benefits.

To conclude, we feel that the basic planning of the site needs to be rethought from first principles, with the forms working with basic urban design principles (fronts and backs, street frontages, pedestrian and vehicular routes), rather than treating the buildings as objects in isolation. We think that the basic problem is one of overdevelopment; we have not seen any evidence that this quantum of development can be acceptably provided on this site.

http://www.cabe.org.uk/default.aspx?contentitemid=1823

Chapel Wharf

Review date: 01 September 2005

Lead designer: Sheppard Robson

Client: Dandara

Local authority: City of Salford

Region: North West

Description: A scheme for two tall buildings for residential, office, retail, and leisure use, with car parking and landscaping.


CABE also commented on this scheme on 23 June 2005 and 01 March 2006.

Whilst we note that there have been some positive changes to the scheme – there is now more clarity between fronts and backs, and with the pedestrian and vehicular routes for example – we do not think that our fundamental concerns about the scheme have been addressed. We repeat that we think that the basic problem is one of overdevelopment; we have not seen any evidence to date to suggest that the combination of this quantum of development, with the types building forms chosen (tower and podium slab blocks), in this arrangement, can produce an acceptable solution.

We think that the streets and podium spaces will feel oppressive and will have a low environmental quality (wind, light). We find the podium space problematic in terms of the number of unusable left over spaces (where the geometries of the podium and blocks do not meet). We do not think that it is acceptable that the main entrance to Block E is via steps and the podium. We are concerned about the number of north facing, single aspect flats, particularly those at the base of the blocks.

We would like to stress that our concerns do not relate to the actual flat plans, or the architectural treatment of the elevations, both of which we think are fine.

To conclude, whilst we think there are some improvements, our fundamental concerns about the scheme remain as before. We do not believe that our concerns can be addressed by modifying the height and location of the blocks (raising/lowering, shifting north/south etc); we think that a fundamental rethink is required.

http://www.cabe.org.uk/default.aspx?contentitemid=1825

Chapel Wharf

Review date: 01 March 2006

Lead designer: Sheppard Robson

Client: Dandara

Local authority: City of Salford

Region: North West

Description: A scheme for two tall buildings for residential, office, retail, and leisure use, with car parking and landscaping.


CABE also commented on this scheme on 23 June 2005 and 01 September 2005.

The changes made to the scheme do not address our fundamental concerns. We repeat that we think that the basic problem is one of overdevelopment; we have yet to see any evidence to suggest that the combination of this quantum of development, with the types of building forms chosen (tower and podium slab block), in this arrangement, can produce an acceptable solution.

We do not wish to comment on what we see as minor amendments to the scheme, as, as we have said previously, our concerns cannot be resolved by tinkering with the design; a fundamental rethink is required.

http://www.cabe.org.uk/default.aspx?contentitemid=1824

www.chapelwharf.com

"Tallest residential tower in Greater Manchester" ??

^^ Beetham is mixed use. They're not obliged to assume other developers' proposals will be built when making marketing claims, but of those farther down the line, Piccadilly Tower will be mixed and Gravity is shorter. Tower A at Canopus Greengate will be taller, but they're either assuming theirs will be released to the market and completed first, or they're simply judiciously ignoring it. Either way, there's nothing wrong with the claim.

I think the towers fine but the lower building is just wrong. Surely the planners must see the implications of a building that literally blocks out light to most of the surrounding buildings too?

Chapel Wharf won't going ahead, so I wouldn't worry!

^^Then why create a brand new website asking to 'register your interest'?

That'd be a waste of money.

This'll happen, like it...or not.

Any tekky nerds out there able to hack that website and alter the wording and perhaps include a link to the cabe report?
What about registering ones interest and include something in the Message box along the lines of "This developement is shit and i am interested to see it fall on its arse"?

lol.

^^Then why create a brand new website asking to 'register your interest'?

That'd be a waste of money.

This'll happen, like it...or not.

Chogmook there is no chance that Chapel Wharf is going ahead, you are going to end up with egg on your face with your last comment. It won't go ahead with Dandara or it's current design. It will be rescued by another developer such as Laing or Bruntwood no doubt. :)

Chogmook there is no chance that Chapel Wharf is going ahead, you are going to end up with egg on your face with your last comment. It won't go ahead with Dandara or it's current design. It will be rescued by another developer such as Laing or Bruntwood no doubt. :)

Here's hoping! You got inside info?!! ;)

Chogmook there is no chance that Chapel Wharf is going ahead, you are going to end up with egg on your face with your last comment. It won't go ahead with Dandara or it's current design. It will be rescued by another developer such as Laing or Bruntwood no doubt. :)

Neither Bruntwood or Laing have anything like Chapel Wharf in their current portfolio so i will be very surprised if they enter into the high density residential sector with such a scheme.

was thinking that m'self.

thought i'd put these in here in case they aren't all in here

# 07/55026/REM
http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=JKWV8BNP40000

Land Bounded By Chapel Street/Barlow Croft/Clowes Street/Dearmans Place/River Irwell
Salford 3

Details of the external appearance and landscaping in respect of the erection of two buildings (40 and 19 storeys) comprising 603 apartements, commercial, retail and leisure together with associated car parking and servicing

# 05/50479/FUL
http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=IEVT9TNP40000

Land At Chapel Wharf
Bounded By Chapel Street, Clowes Street And
River Irwell
Salford 3

Demolition of existing buildings and erection of two blocks of 40 and 19 storeys comprising 552 apartments, 988sq.m offices (A2 and B1), 290sq.m retail (A1 - A5) and 1963sq.m leisure (D1/D2) with 228 car parking spaces and associated landscaping.

# 05/49877/OUT
http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=IAVHWGNPO1000

Land Bounded By Chapel Street/Barlow's Croft/Clowes Street/Dearmans Place/River Irwell
Salford 3

Outline application for the erection of six buildings of 13, 19, 25 and 40 storeys comprising 990 apartments and 5088sq.m of commercial, retail and leisure uses (A1 - A5, B1, D1 or D2) plus new primary substation and associated car parking (787 spaces) and landscaping.
Acroy Limited C/o Dandara Limited

i don't remember the last one

/OUT was the outline app
/FUL was the full app
/REM was the alterations to the design

Simple!

Dandara are a major player in the manchester development market and I reckon this scheme will go ahead, albit different, I have no doubt that a tower of significant height will get built on this site.
The amount of time, money and effort that has gone into this project, failure is not an option. Plus they have a track record of getting large projects built.

Compared to BSC these guys are A1.

Dandara seem to be really pushing the sales of the liked of Specturm and Saint Georges Island. After leaving my details for Chapel Wharf some time ago I've recently had salesmen call and emails trying to draw my attention to other Dandara developements.

Whether is a desperate push to get more sales or a proactive push to offload existing flats and proceed with Chapel Warf is anyone's guess. I suspect the former.

Probably a bit of both, Dandara have stated they aren't proceeding with any new builds while they have so many unsold units around the city.

dandara's chapel wharf site

it's a monster to have to walk round. thing is there is nothing on the site to fence in!!!

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1709ChapelWharfBlockA_pic6.jpg

Hotel and deliveries? Is there another building that backs on to it or something? The other could be just keeping people off the land.

The deliveries for the Lowrey used to go in that way before they put that gate up

Website should be live in 4-6 weeks.

I was talking to someone* the other day who reckons this isnt going to happen.

*someone who matters and not just some one.

I was talking to someone* the other day who reckons this isnt going to happen.

*someone who matters and not just some one.

Not what I've just been told. Then again, who would you believe? :lol:

I was talking to someone* the other day who reckons this isnt going to happen.

*someone who matters and not just some one.

Agreed Longford I have been saying this for months now, it won't happen because Dandara aren't big enough and don't have the expertise to build this project. This project will require a lot more than their previous developments, after all we are talking about a fair sized tower not just some cloned style apartments. My guess is that the site will get sold on. I would really like to see this happen but I just can't see it happening with Dandara.

Agreed Longford I have been saying this for months now, it won't happen because Dandara aren't big enough and don't have the expertise to build this project. This project will require a lot more than their previous developments, after all we are talking about a fair sized tower not just some cloned style apartments. My guess is that the site will get sold on. I would really like to see this happen but I just can't see it happening with Dandara.

On the contrary, Dandara are very capable of building this tower. It's whether the numbers add up and if they can hold their nerve like West and Ballymore are doing.

Dardara are building the V Tower in Brum are'nt they ?

I have big doughts that this one will happen , let wait and see .

On the contrary, Dandara are very capable of building this tower. It's whether the numbers add up and if they can hold their nerve like West and Ballymore are doing.

Sorry to contradict you there Jrb but I doubt they will be building Chapel Wharf, to my knowledge they have never taken on a tower project it is totally different from building apartments, a guy that I was speaking to in the Bridge pub today from a very well known solicitors in Manchester House said to forget about Chapel Wharf as Dandara are shedding staff at an alarming rate and have even shown partners in his practice around their offices with a view to taking on their lease, that doesn't sound like the sort of company thats going to be around for long let alone build a tower. I guess it will be another let down just like Crowngate, lets hope this is all wrong I would love to see Dandara build Chapel Wharf.

Sorry to contradict you there Jrb but I doubt they will be building Chapel Wharf, to my knowledge they have never taken on a tower project it is totally different from building apartments, a guy that I was speaking to in the Bridge pub today from a very well known solicitors in Manchester House said to forget about Chapel Wharf as Dandara are shedding staff at an alarming rate and have even shown partners in his practice around their offices with a view to taking on their lease, that doesn't sound like the sort of company thats going to be around for long let alone build a tower. I guess it will be another let down just like Crowngate, lets hope this is all wrong I would love to see Dandara build Chapel Wharf.

Dandara didn't have highrise knowledge, but they had employed the guys who had done Beetham for Carillion. That said they are shedding staff at an alarming rate, and these guys may have already gone

Cheers to SleepyOne for the heads up

http://www.hodderassociates.com/projects/chapel-wharf/1.jpg

http://www.hodderassociates.com/projects/chapel-wharf/2.jpg

http://www.hodderassociates.com/projects/chapel-wharf/3.jpg

http://www.hodderassociates.com/projects/chapel-wharf/4.jpg

http://www.hodderassociates.com/projects/chapel-wharf/5.jpg

http://www.hodderassociates.com

http://www.hodderassociates.com/projects/chapel-wharf/chapel-wharf.pdf

them new renders look pretty nice. i really like the one where you can see how it interacts with the river all looks pretty good to me. Is it just the general quality of the build that people didnt like? or its look?

them new renders look pretty nice. i really like the one where you can see how it interacts with the river all looks pretty good to me. Is it just the general quality of the build that people didnt like? or its look?

two issues I think:

- the lower block intrudes catastrophically into Chapel Street and the old flat-iron market area.

- the podium creates a very poor pedestrian environment along the Salford river-bank, and by the Lowry Hotel

Basically there is too much development fitted into the site.

dandara in this weeks urban life have said that enquiries in spectrum have been high last month and they now plan to start Chapel Wharf this year once the last phase of spectrum reaches near completion.

Won't be anything happening onsite until summer 2009 at the earliest. Dandara need to offload more units at Spectrum first.

dandara in this weeks urban life have said that enquiries in spectrum have been high last month and they now plan to start Chapel Wharf this year once the last phase of spectrum reaches near completion.

Thought so.
Received a promotion from Dandara in the post and there was a section on this development stating that it was starting later this year.
:banana:

Did you miss Jrb's post there Ste?

Did you miss Jrb's post there Ste?

Lol, sorry having a blonde moment.....I think its the heat

Glasgow development on hold

Published: 25 June 2008 12:09 Last Updated: 26 June 2008 14:23

The credit crunch claimed its latest victim this week with news that a £200 million apartment development in Glasgow has been put on ice until market conditions improve.
Developer Alburn has been pursuing proposals for a site at Tradeston on the south bank of the Clyde since being chosen by Glasgow City Council as its preferred development partner for the site in November 2003.

Planning permission for the project, which would have seen the construction of 943 apartments, was granted in 2005.

Work on the first stage of the 10 year development - a 313 apartment block with 3,500 sq m of commercial space - had been pencilled in to begin work in the spring but speaking to Construction News this week Auburn property director Nigel Kinnaird said the scheme was now on hold.

He said: "We have completed demolition work but we will not be going to a tender any time soon.

"We have become victims of the market. We will look at the project again next spring."

Alburn is understood to have approached a number of main contractors to price the project prior to the decision to put the scheme on hold, although Mr Kinnaird said there had been little interest in taking on the scheme.

But he said he was still confident the scheme would be delivered as soon as the property market strengthened.

Elsewhere, rival residential developer Dandara has rebuffed claims that it has had to put a hold on starting new projects due to a lack of activity on some of its key sites.

The firm has planning approval for two of the UK's tallest residential tower schemes - the 50-storey V Building in Birmingham and the 40-storey Chapel Wharf scheme in Salford.

The Birmingham project was given planning approval in January while permission for Chapel Wharf has been in place since 2006 and work had been expected to start on both this year.

Industry sources claimed this week that the developer had put starts on new developments on hold until it cleared sales on its existing schemes, but this was denied by the Isle of Man-based firm.

A Dandara spokeswoman said that, while a start on the V Building had been delayed, this was due to design changes rather than poor trading conditions.

And Peter Lackey, managing director for Dandara North, said: "Dandara remains fully committed to developing its sites across Manchester and Salford and is progressing with its development strategy as planned.

"We are concentrating our efforts on completing our flagship scheme, Spectrum."


http://www.cnplus.co.uk/News/2008/06/glasgow_development_on_hold.html

Blame Spectrum for the delay on the 2 towers!!! :lol:

"We are concentrating our efforts on completing our flagship scheme, Spectrum."

Substitute that for.....

"We need to sell more apartments at Spectrum and St Georges Island first."

Why not just say that?

Substitute that for.....

"We need to sell more apartments at Spectrum and St Georges Island first."

Why not just say that?

I think your right there jerb but it is difficult to admit that your having problems raising finance. Despite what we my think of Dandara's development efforts to date it does highlight the problem everyone in the building industry is having trying to raise finance at the moment. The gnomes are only going to back sure fire bets so developers are having to recycle capital to reduce leverage. I think all developments have slowed down but have not stopped - yet. They could still do but my guess, for what it is worth, is that the majority will complete. The reason: I just feel there is a lot of momentum in the City and capital has to expand somewhere - where is there better than Manchester on current economic metrics (outside London that is). So I can forgive them being economical with the truth - why put the wind up your investors - just wish they were better developers.

In today's MEN, but not online.

Dandara are moving out of their office under the Lowry Hotel and are relocating to their units at the Spectrum development. They will be leasing or selling their present office and have laid off more staff. They still have 40 staff. Cost cutting springs to mind.

In today's MEN, but not online.

Dandara are moving out of their office under the Lowry Hotel and are relocating to their units at the Spectrum development. They will be leasing or selling their present office and have laid off more staff. They still have 40 staff. Cost cutting springs to mind.

From Crains.

Dandara selling its office building
By Simon Binns


Isle of Man-based property developer Dandara has put its 12,205 sq ft office near Manchester city centre up for sale.

The company will move its 40 staff based in the Dearman’s Place office, next to the Lowry Hotel in Salford, into commercial space at its own Spectrum development on Chapel Street, which borders Salford and Manchester.

Dandara had occupied the two-storey office for three years and is now seeking a buyer for the building.

DTZ has been appointed to market the property.

car park

http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=K78LNENP00B00

08/56957/COU

Use of land for temporary car park for 309 spaces

Acroy Limited

Dandara

lol.

There's going to be a lot of temporary car parks around the city by the end of this year!

...and no one able to afford the congestion charge to get into the city and use them!

If you can afford to park you can afford the congestion charge. The parking prices make the congestion charge look like those lost pennies you don't know what to do with.

Yeah parking fees during those hours of the C Charge are indeed akin to comparing the price of a good bottle of Claret with a half of Holts.

Back on thread, there is nothing more depressing and typically British to see a piece of urban blight turned into a temporary car park.

I recall without pleasure the scruffs on what is now Urbis and what is opposite Piccadilly Station.

Wrong wrong and wrong in so many many different ways.

Yeah parking fees during those hours of the C Charge are indeed akin to comparing the price of a good bottle of Claret with a half of Holts.

Back on thread, there is nothing more depressing and typically British to see a piece of urban blight turned into a temporary car park.

I recall without pleasure the scruffs on what is now Urbis and what is opposite Piccadilly Station.

Wrong wrong and wrong in so many many different ways.

agreed.

i do not see the justification in temporary car parks. it even serves to depress the construction of multistorey car parks throughout the city. i would have things grassed over if building work does not commence immediately after demolition. part of a section 106 agreement? "agreement to grass over site if not utilised for construction within 6 months". spinningfields effectively has this, and that's surely because if it didn't the image and quality of spinningfields would be mired. if private estates are doing this up and down the country out of choice isn't that a good case for the council to enforce this where a development isn't on a private estate i.e. just a plot surrounded by other owners' plots. sorry for the rant but look at manchester on google earth and it shows how run down car parks make the place. :rant:

car park

http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=K78LNENP00B00

08/56957/COU

Use of land for temporary car park for 309 spaces

Acroy Limited

Dandara

Refused by SCC planning.

Decision doc:
http://iclipseweb.salford.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/06681481.pdf

Car park :bash:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4112504298_5f42fac9e8_b.jpg

is there a planning application relating to this that we've missed?

Refused by SCC planning.

http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=K78LNENP00B00

Decision doc:
http://iclipseweb.salford.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/06681481.pdf

Decision appealed, appeal upheld :bash:

SCC were spot on with the reasons it should be refused:
1. The approval of a temporary consent for car parking on this site has the potential to set a precedent for further such proposals
...
3. It is considered that the grant of consent for temporary car parking would be contrary to the regeneration objectives for this area. A temporary car parking use could be difficult to remove once established and its operation may act as a disincentive to its redevelopment for other uses in the medium term.

Car park :bash:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2570/4112504298_5f42fac9e8_b.jpg

Good picture, where was it taken from? Nice seeing the edge apartments with little outdoor spaces.

They've been building it for about a week now, i've watched from my brothers pad at the century buildings.

Yes interesting photo. It's taken from a high floor of the Premier Inn tower (City Heights Apartments).

I know because this was taken from the roof by me:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8306/dsc01600.jpg

Yes interesting photo. It's taken from a high floor of the Premier Inn tower (City Heights Apartments).

I know because this was taken from the roof by me:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8306/dsc01600.jpg


An ugly dreary mess .

there's always one :|

An ugly dreary mess .

*Kevin*

As first names go, you can't get much uglier and drearier than that.

I really like that picture, and I'm not just saying that to be contrary.

Someone once said that as you walk around 80% (?) of your view is the sky.

What a sh*t country we live in!

*Kevin*

As first names go, you can't get much uglier and drearier than that.

cheers jerb

:lol:

Manchester developer Bruntwood has also appointed Stephenson Bell on the former Riverside park site next to the Lowry Hotel, which forms part of Chapel Wharf. That should also start next year.

From
http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/Property/General/Central-Salford-URC-outlines-regeneration-plans_15397.asp

Extension app goes before committee next week, recommended approve,

http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=KRRPYJNP05I00

Still being advertised on the hotels section of Knight Frank's site, price on application,

http://search.knightfrank.com/hotels-for-sale/uk/north-west

It's this one, Chapel Wharf,

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=243356

I see..I was confused by the line "Now Acroy Ltd have been given a further approval for the outline scheme" Who are Acroy, have they taken this on from Dandara?

Acroy are Dandara, just a separate entity in order to contain liabilities I guess.

http://portal.gov.im/pvi/CompanyDetails.aspx?company=104696C

'Registered Office: Dandara Group Head Office, Isle of Man Business Park, Cooil Road, Braddan. IM2 2SA'

bokos lifonifesto weeeee jesazineaeo

Extension app goes before committee next week, recommended approve,

http://publicaccess.salford.gov.uk/publicaccess/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=KRRPYJNP05I00

Still being advertised on the hotels section of Knight Frank's site, price on application,

http://search.knightfrank.com/hotels-for-sale/uk/north-west
Any chance of the 125m+ tower ever actually going ahead, though? I can't imagine a hotel project getting credit in times like these.

"In times like these"? These are excellent times for hotels in Manchester! 97% central Manchester occupancy last month due to the concerts!

"In times like these"? These are excellent times for hotels in Manchester! 97% central Manchester occupancy last month due to the concerts!
That's an impressive figure - but it's due to peak demand.

I was referring to the state of the markets right now, and the limited availability of credit - especially for projects a bit grander in scale than they need to be. (i.e. tall glass towers, when a flatter slab on a bigger plot would rake the cash just as easily with lower build costs)

That said, perhaps demand really is there. We'll see. I really hope this goes ahead either way, because in my books this is definitely a looker. This, 17 NWS, and a revived 1HS would give us a wonderful little mini-scraper boom to get us through the glum years.