I hate hometown boosterism. But, since this forum is for the West Coast and the Interior West, I thought I'd open up a thread for probably the most interior of Interior West cities, Salt Lake City. I think we can all agree that in terms of size and density, SLC is way behind the coastal cities but, hey, you try building Manhattan in the Great Basin (without gambling - nod to Vegas) and see what you can do :). Anyway, the reason I live here is because I got a good, inexpensive education at the University of Utah, love to ski, and it's a pretty easy city to live in due to low housing costs, cheap transportation, and a Delta hub at the airport that allows you to be anywhere in North America within a few hours. I'm not Mormon, and the fact that the Utah State Legislature is 90% Mormon can be frustrating (more abortion bills, anyone?), but where I live (Salt Lake City proper), Mormons are the vast minority and there is a respectable nightlife for a city of this size. Anyway, 'nuff talk, more watch.

Downtown from the West
http://www.parcgateway.com/images/hp_gateway.jpg

Downtown from Main St. Plaza
http://www.r-vision.cz/images/usa/10%20Salt%20Lake%20City/017%20Downtown%20of%20Salt%20Lake%20City.jpg

A satellite photo that gives you some idea of the topography of SLC and the Wasatch Front
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/earth/usa/images/srtm_020602_2_browse.jpg

The obligatory pic of Temple Square Downtown.
http://www.temple-square.org/inline/home-temple-square.jpg

Gateway pedestrian mall on the West side of Downtown.
http://www.cooltownstudios.com/images/gateway-utah.jpg

The University of Utah campus. This is about 2 miles east of Downtown.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6811/370/1600/campussummer_big.jpg

Main Street, Downtown
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6811/370/1600/trax2.jpg

Alta Ski Area, one of the 7 major ski resorts that are abou 30 mins. from Downtown SLC
http://www.met.utah.edu/jhorel/homepages/dzumpfe/Feb03-Alta.jpg

Anyway, that's just a quick walkabout of Salt Lake. Hope you found it illuminating.

Whackos?
Well, Im a Mormon and I find your title offensive and rude.

Salt Lake City has great geography - the mountains are very close to the city and are scenic mood elevators. Downtown never died and it's marvelous to see real-world retail in a western city. As far as the Mormon influence goes, the worst aspect, imo, is the greater difficulty in getting a drink. It's not impossible, just harder. The Gateway project is nice, but like all those other "lifestyle" New Urbanist projects, seems artificial and overplanned. The suburbs are horrendous and dispiriting. Apparently Utah objects to sign ordinances too, and the interstate from Provo to Ogden is horrifying.

I doubt I could live in a place where the dominant influences are so overwhelmingly reactionary. True, SLC is a liberal oasis, but you're always aware how the pod people are close by, taking notes, and planning some comeuppance for the secular heathens.

I lived in Orem, Utah for 6 months in June to Dec, 2000. It was nice place, but not for me. I cannot answer why because it could be offensive to some of you.

There is about 1.3 million people living from Odgen to Provo/Orem in the metro area of 80 miles long. Salt Lake City only has 181,000 people living there, and the metro is 1.3 million. That is impressive amount of people in the metro with a city with only under 200,000.

I'm truly happy where I am now, Seattle! :D

Salt Lake City...I've been there once, won't go again. Im not sure what it was about the city or even the state for that matter, but I felt out of place there. It could have been the religion, climate or anything else, I just didn't like it.

One thing I was impressed by was the cleanliness. I found maybe one piece of trash on the sidewalks. It was kinda creepy, yet efficent and expected. Nice city for some people, just not for me.

Good job trying to represent the Interior west though, we don't get much of that here. ;)

Don't Mormons believe that people of African descent to be cursed; something along the lines of when Cain killed Abel, God cursed him by turning him black, and all people of African descent are of his seed? I hope this isn't true, because that's about the most racist thing I've heard! FYI, I was told this by a Mormon, but said only the most fundamentalist Mormons, like the ones still practicing polygamy, believe this. But still, if it's in your bible, that is enough to make me never want to go to Utah.

I think people have the right to whatever religion they please, however the people going from home to home all too much in Salt Lake trained to sell religion like a sewing machine not even being able to answer basic questions, yeah thats pretty whacko.

Great Salt Lake pictures by the way! I love Salt Lake.

^The king has to go to Jehovahs Witnesses though....:)

My friend lived in Layton and I have been to SLC many times. It is a pretty huge area really. Very long versus wide. I like it. It is a clean metropolitan area and does have some beautiful geography surrounding it.

I was borne in SLC and I lived there untill about 14. Its a great City for those how like the out doors. I heard from most of my family that the city life is getting better to. Its not for me (I LOVE BEER). I got to live in NYC for a few years and even my home town of Seattle is too small (its getting good though) All I have to say to people is that im not LDS but I have more then enough respect for them and for those people who dont like what they do to SLC or for SLC need to get out. I thought this was about architecture. Anybody know of any cool projects happening down there?

!!!!!!!! GO JAZZ !!!!!!!!!!! :righton:

Don't Mormons believe that people of African descent to be cursed; something along the lines of when Cain killed Abel, God cursed him by turning him black, and all people of African descent are of his seed? I hope this isn't true, because that's about the most racist thing I've heard! FYI, I was told this by a Mormon, but said only the most fundamentalist Mormons, like the ones still practicing polygamy, believe this. But still, if it's in your bible, that is enough to make me never want to go to Utah.

That crap about Cain and Abel is from the the king James Bible. That would be the one that all christians use not just mormons so Utah is the least of your worries if you are avoiding religious racism :hammer:
Check out the freek from TX thats in the White House :nuts:

That crap about Cain and Abel is from the the king James Bible. That would be the one that all christians use not just mormons so Utah is the least of your worries if you are avoiding religious racism :hammer:
Check out the freek from TX thats in the White House :nuts:
Learn how to spell freak; then come and talk to me. No, actually I'll respond anyways. Although I am far from being an expert on the King James Bible, I am quite sure it doesn't speak of "black people" as being the cursed seed of Cain. I do realize the bible tells the story of Cain and Abel, but I haven't ever heard any christian I know say some crazy shit about race like that; but hey, maybe it does I don't really care. Also, again I'm no expert, but I do know that Mormons use a different bible. Now, they may use your "regular" King James version, too; but I know for a fact they have a totally different bible that talks about prophets here in North America, and golden tablets or something like that. Like I said, I know a Morman guy who is originally from Utah; and we have had many discussions about a lot of topics regarding that religion. Don't be so defensive anyway, you said you weren't Mormon, and all I did was ask a question.

Why dont you go directly to a Mormon Church and ask them what their beliefs are. I dont believe in debating religious doctrine on the internet.

I can say that we are taught values such as Charity, Love and Respect. We also believe that families are the basic unit of society and parents are responsible for teaching their children how to be good people. Not exactly a whacko concept-at least in my opinion. But if that's whacko then I glady accept that title.

What I do know is that Salt Lake City didnt even exist before the Mormons got there. They were forced out of their homes in NY, Ohio, Illinois and Missouri by govt officials and mobs who persecuted them relentlessly simply for what they believed in. Fathers and Sons were killed, Mothers and Daughters were raped. Its the reason the Mormons left the midwest.

So they arrived in a desolate and dusty bowl and they turned it into an organized, treelined city. There the Church was allowed to develop and grow without outside persecution.

The Church founded the city and remains the single most influential force there by far.

I don't know why it's considered wrong to point out obvious things, like the LDS church's longstanding prohibition of blacks from their priesthood (conveniently removed by Spencer Kimball in a 1973 "revelation"). It wasn't just blacks who bore the mark of Cain. Native Americans themselves are judged to be flawed (the Lehi). It stems from an elaborate mythology of tribes of Israel battling one another in ancient history and the cursed tribe somehow getting lost and relocating to North America. This fairy tale is a central precept of Mormon theology.

I assume all religions have weird dogmas and beliefs (the virgin birth, anyone?). In a sense, Mormonism is the 19th Century Scientology, attempting a religious answer to an anthropological question, namely, how did Indians come to North America if the Bible makes no mention of them? How LDS survives its rather humorous origins shows that people are more than willing to suspend their rational thought process if the social organization is supportive and friendly. Cafeteria Catholics know this all too well, to the point, even , of disregarding huge areas of church dogma.

Ok pardon me for not being on you level of intelligence. Im guessing you have never misspelled anything before :master:

Your question about mormons being racists was more of a statment otherwise why would you ask this "question" in an architeciture forum when you could ask your expert friend. I did say that im not mormon but I have a lot of respect for them and it is sick misinterpretations of the bible like your dumb question that fuel religious groups like the KKK. Oh I guess you have never heard them since you have never heard of other christians that use the king james bible and are racists. The fact that mormons use a nother bible as well is not the subject unless you are claiming that there is racist stuff in there to. By the way did your friend tell you its called the Book of Mormon and FYI there is nothing in it about Cain and Abel.

I don't know why it's considered wrong to point out obvious things, like the LDS church's longstanding prohibition of blacks from their priesthood (conveniently removed by Spencer Kimball in a 1973 "revelation").
Yes, the Church did that and then changed its stance. I would think that the Church would be lauded for becoming more inclusive.

It wasn't just blacks who bore the mark of Cain. Native Americans themselves are judged to be flawed (the Lehi). It stems from an elaborate mythology of tribes of Israel battling one another in ancient history and the cursed tribe somehow getting lost and relocating to North America. This fairy tale is a central precept of Mormon theology.
Sorry if I choose to follow the convictions of my heart as opposed to your rantings. There's a promise at the End of The Book of Mormon...that if you read, ponder and pray about the book with real intent and a sincere heart, you will come to know of its truthfulness by the holy ghost and I believe the peace and warmth I felt when I prayed about it was just that. Either you believe it or you dont. I dont see the need to criticize those who dont agree with you when this is something that is totally subjective-not a very liberal and inclusive thing to do if you ask me. And certainly not very tolerant.

How LDS survives its rather humorous origins shows that people are more than willing to suspend their rational thought process
Its called Faith. Pure and Simple. Christianity by its very nature requires that one suspend rational thought.

Its not easy being a person of color who is Mormon and a Liberal Democrat. I get a hard time from all sides, but I cant deny what I believe to be true. Everything else has to take a back seat.

And I thought the cities in the Bay Area had the best views in the country....
Wow...SLC looks awesome....It looks so clean and quiet and the views...man those views are to die for..:drool:....

Ok pardon me for not being on you level of intelligence. Im guessing you have never misspelled anything before :master:

Your question about mormons being racists was more of a statment otherwise why would you ask this "question" in an architeciture forum when you could ask your expert friend. I did say that im not mormon but I have a lot of respect for them and it is sick misinterpretations of the bible like your dumb question that fuel religious groups like the KKK. Oh I guess you have never heard them since you have never heard of other christians that use the king james bible and are racists. The fact that mormons use a nother bible as well is not the subject unless you are claiming that there is racist stuff in there to. By the way did your friend tell you its called the Book of Mormon and FYI there is nothing in it about Cain and Abel.
I really don't understand your defensivness. I asked the question, because the Mormon religion is THE defining trait of Utah. You are the one who got hostile because I asked a legitimate question. I said some guy I knew told me those things; I didn't know if it was correct. And sorry, as I am not planning to become Mormon, I never thoroughly researched his claims. But, after seeing a thread on Utah, and assuming I would get a yes or no answer, and a simple explanation, I asked. But then YOU dancer, start saying how bush is some racist, like I and the state of Texas are responsible for some guy from Connecticut who moved here when he became an adult. And, then telling me my question whether a state which is ran by said religion teaches racism, is "dumb" (by the way, nice job adding the 'b' at the end). If it doesn't teach those things, why not just say so? Oh, one more thing. The difference between the KKK and the Mormons is that the KKK is a criminal organization that is NOT a religion. And although you are claiming that the KKK is a "religious group", I and mainstream America have another name for them....a hate group.

Yes, the Church did that and then changed its stance. I would think that the Church would be lauded for becoming more inclusive.


Sorry if I choose to follow the convictions of my heart as opposed to your rantings. There's a promise at the End of The Book of Mormon...that if you read, ponder and pray about the book with real intent and a sincere heart, you will come to know of its truthfulness by the holy ghost and I believe the peace and warmth I felt when I prayed about it was just that. Either you believe it or you dont. I dont see the need to criticize those who dont agree with you when this is something that is totally subjective-not a very liberal and inclusive thing to do if you ask me. And certainly not very tolerant.


Its called Faith. Pure and Simple. Christianity by its very nature requires that one suspend rational thought.

Its not easy being a person of color who is Mormon and a Liberal Democrat. I get a hard time from all sides, but I cant deny what I believe to be true. Everything else has to take a back seat.

I really don't care what you believe. Religious superstitions are interesting, but in no way terrible. IMO, astrology is a crock, and so is Scientology, as is Christian Science, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, New Age, etc. What most religions have in common are nutty beliefs all gussied up as "faith", as if that somehow excuses their irrationality and surreality.

Why is it off limits to say what's obvious to anyone who's ever taken a science class? We can have opinions about anything and everything but once the "faith" word is invoked, we're all supposed to shut up? Again, what you believe is not important to me. But religion is necessarily a subject in the public square: it injects itself politically, both in elections and in public education, it demonizes people it considers outside the fold, it fosters idiocy in the form of anti-evolution "science", it creates sectarian strife, and has generally been the vehicle for much human unhappiness. And you're a bigot if you say anything against it!

I really don't care what you believe
Yet at the end of the day, that's what it all boils down to. Ones personal beliefs.

Why is it off limits to say what's obvious to anyone who's ever taken a science class? We can have opinions about anything and everything but once the "faith" word is invoked, we're all supposed to shut up?
Who says you cant say what you want? People who belong to contraversial religions are used to people coming up to them giving them the 3rd degree..its part of the territory.

Invevitably, a post about SLC will turn to religion. That's fine, I think it's healthy to acknowledge the elephant in the room. Mormonism breaks down like this: it was a sect that ultimately pushed out of the Midwest in the 1800's because its leader, Joseph Smith, was trying to create a theocracy on the banks of the Mississippi River in the city of Nauvoo, Illinois. Smith took on multiple wives (some as young as 14) and when a non-Mormon newspaper published his extra-marital exploits, he, as the Mayor of Nauvoo and spiritual head of some 15,000 Mormon citizens, ordered the press destroyed. He was thrown into jail by Illinois authorities and ultimately succumbed to an angry mob that lynched he and his brother, Hyrum, but not before firing several shots into the approaching mob. His successor, Brigham Young, held his finger to the wind and decided to get the hell out of dodge. Thus began the great westward migration.

Young, after sending several scouts to scope out areas between the mostly-uncharted area between the Sierra Nevada and the Rockies, led the Mormons to Utah, where, in a fit of theatrics, declared "this is the place." Later, it was Young's intent to establish an independent, theocratic state in the Great Basin of which he would be the supreme leader. This, however, never worked out due to the intervention of the U.S. military which was dispatched to Salt Lake City to keep an eye on Young' shenanigans. As a result, SLC is the only city in the west where the military base, Fort Douglas, had its guns turned toward the city.

As the world grew smaller through the introduction of the railroad, telegraph, and a steady stream of new residents into the Salt Lake Valley, the Mormon Church evolved, eventually allying itself rather than confronting the federal government. This evolution continues, as the Mormon Church's growth has started to decline at the same time the internet has flourished. Most non-Mormon's in Utah are familiar with the real story of the Mormon church and increasingly, its members are too despite the admonishment to avoid satanic, "anti-mormon" literature. The Salt Lake Tribune has recently published a series of reports that establish two notable phenomena: the Mormon church only has 4 million active members despite the claim that there are 11 million members and growing and, within a few decades, Mormons will be the minority in Utah. This can certainly be evidenced by the burgeoning cosmopolitanism in Salt Lake City. Our mayor (who is villified by the Mormon political establishment in Utah) is an extremely progressive politician who has gained worldwide attention for his efforts to combat global warming and other environmental concerns on the local level. Many Mormons in Utah see him as a political aberration, but the changing demographics in the Salt Lake Valley would state otherwise.

I am a big Rocky Anderson supporter (the mayor's name) because of his push for higher densities, public transit, and nightlife options. We are starting to see more infill projects in the city and increasingly, more people are moving downtown and contributing to the city's somewhat-anemic pulse. There are a few promising projects in the queue for Downtown SLC, and as they come about, I'll be sure to post them.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Invevitably, a post about SLC will turn to religion
You dont suppose it was the inference to "Religious Whackos"?

LOL

Touché. But the post itself was about SLC and its evolution out from a cultist backwater to a dynamic, cosmopolitan city.

And I'll stop calling Mormons religious whackos the day they formally apologize for institutionalized racism (instead of hiding behind "it was revealed"), persecution of gays and lesbians, and the subjugation of women.

I do not believe in tolerance for intolerance.

Really interesting post Rocky Mountian.

I was wondering have you ever seen (an now I seem imature) the mormon south park episode. I don't know its credibiltiy but I can say that if any of it is true that mormonism isn't all that its made out to be.

South Park can be very educational :)

Excellent post Shawn.

The history of any religion is a mixed bag, of course. Inevitably, we bring human failings and desires into our most otherworldly of concerns. Religion, properly understood, is always being revealed and expanded. We no longer condone slavery, or treat women as chattel, and even the humanity of homosexuals is now a given. But some religions take pride in not evolving. They get mired in their own authoritarianism. And ultimately they substitute dogma for spirit.

But the post itself was about SLC and its evolution out from a cultist backwater to a dynamic, cosmopolitan city
Ironic that you should say that because The Church itself is by far the biggest driver of Cosmopolitanism in The Salt Lake Metro.

And I'll stop calling Mormons religious whackos the day they formally apologize for institutionalized racism (instead of hiding behind "it was revealed")persecution of gays and lesbians, and the subjugation of women.
Oh go ahead and call us whatever you want... I just found it odd that you needed to start you thread about such a nice city with such a negative tone. Oh well.

SDFan, if the South Park episode you're referring to is the one where everyone's in hell and wondering just how the pun they got there, then yes, I've seen it and laughed heartily. The whole absurdity of Mormonism being the absolute truth and humanity's 5000+ years of religion and philosophy being thown by the wayside is wondrously conveyed.

Although I myself am not a religious person, I have no problem with it as long as it doesn't find its way into the lives of people who don't share its beliefs. This is exactly why me and a growing section of the population in Utah are getting fed-up with the (slim) Mormon majority determining what we can drink and when, who we marry, what we do with our bodies, and saddling us with an unfair share of the tax burden. Fortunately, there are enough redeeming qualities about this place that make it attractive to people like me and others in the growing non-Mormon population. We are growing and in the process, cultivating a great city that will get even greater.

SDFan, if the South Park episode you're referring to is the one where everyone's in hell and wondering just how the pun they got there, then yes, I've seen it and laughed heartily. The whole absurdity of Mormonism being the absolute truth and humanity's 5000+ years of religion and philosophy being thown by the wayside is wondrously conveyed.

Oh yes there was that one, which was a great episode. The one Im refering to though is when a Mormon family moves into town, probably one of there greatest episodes. imo that is. They basically tore apart little bits of there philosophy and with that everything came undone. Great episode se if you can find if you haven't seen it.

Oh yes there was that one, which was a great episode. The one Im refering to though is when a Mormon family moves into town, probably one of there greatest episodes. imo that is. They basically tore apart little bits of there philosophy and with that everything came undone
Fiction indeed...LOL

Fiction indeed...LOL

I can't say if it is or isn't.

OK Nic. If it was really "a simple question" and not a statment then why the long drawn out mormon bashing that followed the "simple question?" Why not just state your question and let the conversation take place. You could simply ask "Don't Mormons believe that people of African descent to be cursed; something along the lines of when Cain killed Abel, God cursed him by turning him black, and all people of African descent are of his seed?" Even this is an obnoxious way of asking a "simple question" but not as bad as asking Don't Mormons believe that people of African descent to be cursed; something along the lines of when Cain killed Abel, God cursed him by turning him black, and all people of African descent are of his seed? I hope this isn't true, because that's about the most racist thing I've heard! FYI, I was told this by a Mormon, but said only the most fundamentalist Mormons, like the ones still practicing polygamy, believe this. But still, if it's in your bible, that is enough to make me never want to go to Utah. You dident ask a simple question and so you wont get a simple answer. You were trying to be obnoxious by making a statment and hiding behind it by saying it was a simple question because you put a question mark behind it!
Check out the freek from TX thats in the White House
then YOU dancer, start saying how bush is some racist, like I and the state of Texas are responsible for some guy from Connecticut who moved here when he became an adult.
I was out of line about the Texas bashing though and you have a good point. I apologise for that one.

Ironic that you should say that because The Church itself is by far the biggest driver of Cosmopolitanism in The Salt Lake Metro.


Can you explain how? This is a confusing statement because the two largest contributors to the area's economy is 1) the twice-yearly Outdoor Retailer Conference and 2) the Sundance Film Festival. Neither of these things are related to the church.

Cos·mo·pol·i·tan (kzm-pl-tn) composed of people from or at home in many parts of the world
There are 4-5 Spanish Speaking Wards,4-5 Portuguese Speaking Wards in Salt Lake, over 20 Tongan Wards and a host of other foreign language wards. Why do you think this many foreigners have moved to Salt Lake? Because they wanted to go skiing?

I suppose if you were to take the strictest definition of "cosmopolitan," people from other nation-states do come due to their membership in the Mormon Church. However, sizeable East African, Eastern European, Latin American, and Southest Asian populations are in SLC and not because of the Mormon Church. But I think you're missing the point, which is cosmoplitan in terms of overall diversity that comes from representing different communities, whether they be ethnic, religious, economic, political, etc. Using different languages in order to reinforce sameness in areas other than language is not becoming of a true Cosmopolis, so it does not matter to me how many wards speaking different languages there are as they all preach from the same damn lesson manual.

I suppose if you were to take the strictest definition of "cosmopolitan,"
as opposed to the loosest definition?

However, sizeable East African, Eastern European, Latin American, and Southest Asian populations are in SLC and not because of the Mormon Church.
Sizeable perhaps, but these other groups are dwarfed by the number of foreigners who have come to because of the church.

so it does not matter to me how many wards speaking different languages there are as they all preach from the same damn lesson manual
You can rest assured that they bring their food, music, dance, art and cultural traditions with them.

I know that the LDS church has played a huge part in the immigration of alot of Tongans/Samoans in Utah County. I remember knowing a few from my boarding school in Provo and they took us to this huge cultural festival at the Utah Valley College (I think thats what its called) and it was crazy to see all the traditions that these people have kept even in a very judgemental society.

Whackos?
Well, Im a Mormon and I find your title offensive and rude.

Same- the title is completely rude!

Sizeable perhaps, but these other groups are dwarfed by the number of foreigners who have come to because of the church.

What? Do you know how many Latin American immigrants live in the Salt Lake Valley?

Some people on here should be ashamed of themselves. This is lame.

Salt Lake City is a very beautiful city and it has one of the best backdrops in the world.

I live there.

My only experience in SLC was a six hour layover between Greyhounds on a journey out to the northwest. Could have had something to do with the desolation of I-80 through Wyoming or the large farting woman beside me, but as the Hound pulled into SLC I felt a sense of peace and joy that I can remember to this day.

The city was beautiful, and remarkably clean; especially downtown. I immediately began to see why. Maybe two steps off the bus, some guy was giving me the choice to extinguish my already lit cigarette or contribute $300 to the city budget. Pretty standard today, but 9 years ago smokers had rights, damn it, and being told you couldn't smoke at a bus stop was like being told you couldn't smoke at a bar, or behind a dumpster. But of course the result was a floor I would've have eaten off of if you were buying. Since you weren't there I went out to the street to smoke the rest of my dinner.

Again I was taken by the lack of gum/garbage/filth/dirt/crust/must/pus on every surface and on all of the faces of all the people who where missing altogether. We were in front of the bus stop! The few people I did see just added to the surreal atmosphere: A horse drawn carriage (the touristy kind, but still), an old couple walking hand in hand, a few huge families of blond headed kids. It was starting to get vaguely creepy at that point, when a fellow traveler produced a joint, and not a minute too soon. We smoked it and spent the next few hours walking around, digging the disney-esque lighting of the big church and even catching a few minutes of some type of service in a big circular room. The Tabernacle?

And then I had to leave.
The moral of the story is: Don't forget the weed.

The moral of the story is: Don't forget the weed.

So true, my friend. You were only here for six hours, yet in that short time you discovered the key to survival in our fair city.

Next time you're here - and high - be sure to check out this in the North Visitor's Center in Temple Square.

http://myweb.cableone.net/kevinowen3/images/dsc01505.jpg

This giant Jesus......talks. Seriously. And it's in a giant room with planets and stars painted on the walls. It does not get any weirder - or any fascinating - than this.

#41
outoftime
Cash-Register User




Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 10 My only experience in SLC was a six hour layover between Greyhounds on a journey out to the northwest. Could have had something to do with the desolation of I-80 through Wyoming or the large farting woman beside me, but as the Hound pulled into SLC I felt a sense of peace and joy that I can remember to this day.

The city was beautiful, and remarkably clean; especially downtown. I immediately began to see why. Maybe two steps off the bus, some guy was giving me the choice to extinguish my already lit cigarette or contribute $300 to the city budget. Pretty standard today, but 9 years ago smokers had rights, damn it, and being told you couldn't smoke at a bus stop was like being told you couldn't smoke at a bar, or behind a dumpster. But of course the result was a floor I would've have eaten off of if you were buying. Since you weren't there I went out to the street to smoke the rest of my dinner.

Again I was taken by the lack of gum/garbage/filth/dirt/crust/must/pus on every surface and on all of the faces of all the people who where missing altogether. We were in front of the bus stop! The few people I did see just added to the surreal atmosphere: A horse drawn carriage (the touristy kind, but still), an old couple walking hand in hand, a few huge families of blond headed kids. It was starting to get vaguely creepy at that point, when a fellow traveler produced a joint, and not a minute too soon. We smoked it and spent the next few hours walking around, digging the disney-esque lighting of the big church and even catching a few minutes of some type of service in a big circular room. The Tabernacle?

And then I had to leave.
The moral of the story is: Don't forget the weed.
Ha Ha Ha I like that. That was a good story. Belive me I dont forget the weed when I go there. Just my own history nothing against Mormons

I attended the University of Utah and lived in Salt Lake City for two years and was an Urban Planning major. I learned alot about the urban history of Salt Lake City including the famous(and sometimes infamous) Mormon Grid. The city itself is very clean...almost too clean, like outoftime stated, in a Twilight Zone way. The downtown area is extremely safe compared to other downtown areas, if I had 10 kids I would feel very comfortable walking around with them after 10pm. The most noticable architecture is pretty much reserved to the Wells Fargo building, the Capital, and of course the Temple, however the beautiful mountainous terrain closely surrounding the city greatly overshadows any building constructed. The Mormon religion is noticible in almost every aspect of Utah and for that matter Salt Lake City. Being from Dallas, the strong Mormon influence took me a long time to get used to. The weather was also a big time shocker. The snow provides endless fun for skiiers and snowboarders. However, the so-called "Inversion", a period of about two months where clouds get trapped in the Salt Lake valley for a combination of freezing temperatures, snow, fog, and no sight of the sun, was one of the breaking points that lead me to transfer back to Texas and attend Texas A&M. Despite that, I see great potential for Salt Lake City as a tourist destination and a very diverse city...just need to open the adverstisement doors alittle more. And Rocky Mountain Shawn is right, the city life can be fun for those of us who like to drink and party like the rest of the country. I recently went back to visit and celebrate my 21st birthday...I had no problem gaining one of my worst hang-overs the next morning, despite Utah's strange liquor laws. It was a fun two years, but Texas was calling my name everyday of the two years I was in Utah.

So true, my friend. You were only here for six hours, yet in that short time you discovered the key to survival in our fair city.
word...save up the reefer for the "Inversion"

I can enjoy this city perfectly fine without drugs. And no, I'm not Mormon.

But still, I live here and this is my home. It's a great city with excellent scenery, a cultural life that's more than any outside visitor would really expect, and terrific weather. (I love the weather here!). And since when did the inversion last 2 months? 0_o. It rarely, if ever, lasts more than 2 or 3 weeks, and usually it lasts maybe a week. It's also a safe, clean city, as many people have pointed out already, although it definitely has its fair share of ugly spots (drive from Davis County anyone?) and not-so-safe spots (Kearns, West Valley), although those places are average for the normal city.

Salt Lake City is also a victim of urban sprawl. Sometimes urban sprawl is just too much (Phoenix anyone?), but here it's not too much and most of the development that's taking place in the suburbs is very environmentally-concsious and, for the most part, not overdone. Salt Lake City also has great transportation options, although the north-south orientation makes travel congested and not much can be done about that. Salt Lake City is just a great city overall, even if its politics are a bit screwed up.

Ya I like Salt Lake City. It is a very long and narrow urban corrider though. Nice surroundings though and it is a nice place. Like SLC, Boise also has inversions in the winter!

Rocky Mountain Shawn you better watch out they're going to duck you like a little bitch in the hood.

Of course Salt Lake City is no longer the place just for religious wackos anymore. It has been replaced by the United States as the place just for relgious wackos nowadays.

^^ Very true.

The LDS faith has taken a back seat in the arena of whacked out religious movements thanks to Scientologists, Neo-Con Republicans, and Muslim Jihadists.

http://myweb.cableone.net/kevinowen3/images/dsc01505.jpg

While I don't recall the Jesus statue talking, that is an interesting room.

Hey, young feller, I don't like your tone with this "religious wackos" nonsense. I bet you're one o' them elitist Commie/Pinko DЭMOCЯATS that think anybody that don't buy into your brand o' sophisticated socialism and enlightened secular philosophies is just a dumb ol' turd from the 1850's. Now, I'm a gettin' just about as fed up as I can with yer kind a goin' around and puttin' everybody with a different opinion than yours down. You understand me?

why go out of your way to talk about mormons as wackos?there services are pretty standard boring stuff just like baptists and methodists they're only wacko because they don't criticize you this way.makes me wonder if there religion isn't better than yours

digging the disney-esque lighting of the big church and even catching a few minutes of some type of service in a big circular room. The Tabernacle?

And then I had to leave.
The moral of the story is: Don't forget the weed.

...besides the "big building" is a temple, a concept your little unweeded mind obviously cannot grasp and they don't hold "services" in the Tabernacle but conferences and concerts... it's very sad and funny to see someone criticising a greater world he cannot fathom thru the smoke of a joint.

Hey, this talk about Mormons is not cool and not true! Mormons are not wackos and there are more people in SLC who aren't Mormon than there is who are Mormon. I'm a Mormon and I'm not a whacko! And as for you people who think Mormons are religious whackos, you should go to all of the Mormon monuments and buildings in Downtown SLC and see for yourselves that Mormons are not whackos! Oh and for your information eyrie, Mormon services are not boring and are not like any other religions services! You are not a Mormon like me so there for, please stop critizizing them!

I agree with Zargyle and Starcode on page two!

Touché. But the post itself was about SLC and its evolution out from a cultist backwater to a dynamic, cosmopolitan city.

And I'll stop calling Mormons religious whackos the day they formally apologize for institutionalized racism (instead of hiding behind "it was revealed"), persecution of gays and lesbians, and the subjugation of women.

I do not believe in tolerance for intolerance.


None of that is true at all Rocky Mountain Shawn! I agree with bay area on page 1! You should be ashamed of yourself!

Why dont you go directly to a Mormon Church and ask them what their beliefs are. I dont believe in debating religious doctrine on the internet.

I can say that we are taught values such as Charity, Love and Respect. We also believe that families are the basic unit of society and parents are responsible for teaching their children how to be good people. Not exactly a whacko concept-at least in my opinion. But if that's whacko then I glady accept that title.

What I do know is that Salt Lake City didnt even exist before the Mormons got there. They were forced out of their homes in NY, Ohio, Illinois and Missouri by govt officials and mobs who persecuted them relentlessly simply for what they believed in. Fathers and Sons were killed, Mothers and Daughters were raped. Its the reason the Mormons left the midwest.

So they arrived in a desolate and dusty bowl and they turned it into an organized, treelined city. There the Church was allowed to develop and grow without outside persecution.

The Church founded the city and remains the single most influential force there by far.

Bay area is right about us Mormons! I'm a Mormon and I know for a fact that the stuff he wrote in the quote above is true so don't critizize it!

I wanted to see things I dont know about SLC in this thread.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2mr8vhi.jpg

Imknid of did to The-E-Vid I kind of did too!

I'm glad I am an unaffiliated Buddhist/Taoist at times like this...


also- Confucius can get bent.

Why dont you go directly to a Mormon Church and ask them what their beliefs are. I dont believe in debating religious doctrine on the internet.

I can say that we are taught values such as Charity, Love and Respect. We also believe that families are the basic unit of society and parents are responsible for teaching their children how to be good people. Not exactly a whacko concept-at least in my opinion. But if that's whacko then I glady accept that title.

What I do know is that Salt Lake City didnt even exist before the Mormons got there. They were forced out of their homes in NY, Ohio, Illinois and Missouri by govt officials and mobs who persecuted them relentlessly simply for what they believed in. Fathers and Sons were killed, Mothers and Daughters were raped. Its the reason the Mormons left the midwest.

So they arrived in a desolate and dusty bowl and they turned it into an organized, treelined city. There the Church was allowed to develop and grow without outside persecution.

The Church founded the city and remains the single most influential force there by far.

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

Wanting the Church not to have influence in Utah is the same that telling Obama not to govern the United States..

Utah was founded by the Church...and of course the Church has to be the most powerful influence here.

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

Wanting the Church not to have influence in Utah is the same that telling Obama not to govern the United States..

Utah was founded by the Church...and of course the Church has to be the most powerful influence here.

As long as the majority of people in the state are LDS. That number has been decreasing and I suspect the religious influence will decrease to the same degree. With that said, I find the state to be a great place.

I'm not a Mormon and I think that Utah and SLC rock! But then I'm a bit of a wierdo in that I don't have a fetish for grit.

I have gone to SLC three times. Once as part of a summer vacation and twice for skiing. It is very nice and seemed livable. It is not very cosmapolitan though and it is a LONG drive to any place that is.

I think it is getting overpopulated. It is a high desert environment and the effects of too much pollution are becoming pronounced. So I'll be happy to visit there while living elsewhere.

Oh, and yes, I've never seen such a clean city anywhere. I

great

Don't Mormons believe that people of African descent to be cursed; something along the lines of when Cain killed Abel, God cursed him by turning him black, and all people of African descent are of his seed? I hope this isn't true, because that's about the most racist thing I've heard! FYI, I was told this by a Mormon, but said only the most fundamentalist Mormons, like the ones still practicing polygamy, believe this. But still, if it's in your bible, that is enough to make me never want to go to Utah.


Mormons only make up between 20-25% of Salt Lake City now and only 45% of Salt Lake County. So, it doesn't matter so much what Mormons believe, since they're a minority now.

The Book of Mormon doesn't mention Cain or black people being the cursed seed of Cain. The Mormon prophet Brigham Young said that about black people, but it was never Mormon doctrine.



Learn how to spell freak; then come and talk to me. No, actually I'll respond anyways. Although I am far from being an expert on the King James Bible, I am quite sure it doesn't speak of "black people" as being the cursed seed of Cain. I do realize the bible tells the story of Cain and Abel, but I haven't ever heard any christian I know say some crazy shit about race like that; but hey, maybe it does I don't really care. Also, again I'm no expert, but I do know that Mormons use a different bible. Now, they may use your "regular" King James version, too; but I know for a fact they have a totally different bible that talks about prophets here in North America, and golden tablets or something like that. Like I said, I know a Morman guy who is originally from Utah; and we have had many discussions about a lot of topics regarding that religion. Don't be so defensive anyway, you said you weren't Mormon, and all I did was ask a question.

Oh, and yes, I've never seen such a clean city anywhere.

However, there are random occasions in the Winter where atmospheric temperature inversions make the entire valley around SLC extremely smoggy and nasty looking. Not that they are alone in that problem. Santiago, another mountain city, has that same issue.