continued from old thread.

oh...and

http://www.outabounds.com/images/nfl_buffalo_bills2.gif

:rock:

Downtown Buffalo Project Summary

RESIDENTIAL

COMPLETED
Development Units Type
Ansonia Center 59 Apartments
Bellasario Apartments 29 Apartments
City Centre 41 Condominium
Elk Terminal Lofts I & II 52 Loft Apartments
Ellicott Lofts 38 Loft Apartments
Holling Press Lofts 82 Apartments
Market Arcade Lofts 10 Apartments
Sidway Building 67 Apartments
Spaulding Building 19 Apartments
St. Mary Square 52 Condominium
The Netherland 6 Apartments
University Club (Bellasara) 14 Apartments
Watkins Apartments 6 Apartments
Total: 478

Under Construction
651-3 Main Street (Pierce) 4 Apartments
844-852 Main Street 29 Apartments
Buehl Bldg. Reno. 6 Apt. or Condo
Ellicott Commons 58 Apartments
Oak School Lofts 29 Loft Apts.
Total: 126

Proposed
112 Genesee Street 2 Apartments
456 Main Street (Bakers) 12 Apartments
504 Washington 6 Condos
537 Main St. (Grever's) na Apartments
Arctic Freezers na unknown
Artspace - 1219 Main 50 Lofts
Ben-Lin Warehouse 30-40 Condo
Elk Terminal Lofts III 12 Lofts
Greystone Hotel 26 Apartments
H.O. Oats na unknown
Hager Mills Lofts (141 Elm) 32 Apartments
Lofts at Elk Terminal 48 Lofts
North St. Y Senior Apts. 65 Sr. Apts.
Saturn Rings Building 20-25 Loft Apartments
Schmidt Lot Condos 36 Condo
Seneca Paper Lofts- 30 Apts.
Vernor Site 100-125 Condo
Waterfront Village 71 Condos/TH
Waterfront Village 50 Apts.
Total: 590-630

OFFICE

Project Developer Sq. Ft. Status
67 W. Chippewa Offices- Sherk/Macaluso 5,000 UC
Niagara Center- Acquest 290,000 DONE
100 Seneca St.- Paladino 76,000 PL
222 Genesee St.- WNY MRI 33,000 PL
285 Delaware Avenue- Uniland 110,000 proposed
361 Delaware (Pleu)- Paladino 30,900 UC
599 Delaware- Scheider 25,000 PL
487 Main Street- Carmina/Wood 14,400 DONE
505 Pearl- Croce 15,000 PL
737 Main Street- Avalon 15,000 UC
844-64 Main Street- First Amherst 4,600 UC
City Centre Annex- CityView 23,000 DONE
Court Street Tower- Paladino 290,000 proposed
Courtyard Mall Offices- Paladino PL
Elk Terminal- First Amherst 25,000 UC
Ellicott Commons- Burke 32,000 DONE
Federal Res. Bldg- Ciminelli 100,000 PL
HealthNow HQs- Duke 452,000 PL
Knights of Columbus Reno.- Jerge 54,000 DONE
Larkin Building- CityView 600,000 DONE
Michigan/S. Division Bldg.- Paladino 45,000 PL
Niagara Mohawk Bldg.- Iskalo 148,000 UC
Trico Renovation- Ciminelli 585,000 PL
Elm/Oak North Block- Uniland 84,093 proposed
Waterfront Village Office Bldg.- DiNapoli 150,000 proposed
Total 3,195,993

PUBLIC/OTHER

Project Status
AM&A's- Burke Purchase Study
Asbury Church- Righteous Babe UC
Augsburger Expansion Done
Auto Museum- Greasing Station UC
Auto Museum- Wright Gas Station UC
Bass Pro Shop (old Aud) PL
Bioinformatics Center UC
Bus Terminal Renovation PL
Children's Museum- 173 Elm Street PL
City Centre Ramp Expansion PL
Corn Exchange--- Ramada Plaza Hotel PL
Donovan Bldg- Transit Hub PL
ECC Dorm Study
ECC Hockey Rink Study
ECC Ramp/Transit Center PL
Erie Canal Harbor Parking Ramp PL
Federal Courthouse PL
Franklin, 204- Boutique Hotel? PL
Franklin, 294- Warehaus Club Done
Franklin, 333 Rehab/Restaurant Done
Genesee, 112 Reno/Apts. PL
Genesee, 85-91- Apts. PL
Genesee, 99-101- Rest/Apts UC
Hauptmann Research Center Done
High Street, 23 Reno. PL
Inner Harbor Excavation UC
Larkin Building Parking Ramp (762) UC
Larking Building Reno. Done
Main Street Retraffic PL
Main Street, 743-47 Reno. PL
Main Street, 888 Reno (restaurant) PL
Niagara Center Ramp UC
Oliver's Waterfront Restaurant PL
Pearl Street, 470 Mixed-Use PL
Public Safety Building Done
Shanghai Reds Done
West Huron Hotel Reno. PL

hey so...eastcoast, you wanna plot all of these? lol

hey so...eastcoast, you wanna plot all of these? lol

I could...it would make for a crowded map! I'll work on it!

I'm gonna talk to a friend of mine about making an interactive Flash file for this...something we can have instead of having to go on the forums, updates...eh I dunno.

well we now have a part II, not bad...we are talkin it up good on the Buff, I wish the building projects happened to be a quick as our threads.

Don't forget the massive outer harbor project. Many think that it is pie in the sky but the developers behind it are pretty big league and since it has been announced we have seen a lot more talk about improving access to the area and removing the skyway which makes me believe that the politicians are getting some pressure applied.

Oliver's (on Delaware) is planning a new waterfont restaurant? Where exactly is it going to be located?

I can't wait for the H.O. Oats conversion to come to fruition. Combined with the new builds @ Elk Terminal, the Ben-Lin Warehouse Condos, and the Bass Pro/transit center project the Cobblestone district will be well on its way to becoming a new hotspot of retail & residential activity.

BuffCity's Top 10 signs that Buffalo is back!

1. Atleast 1 or 2 3-4 star hotels will open
2. At some scale a tourism attraction area like (landing JAX, riverwalk SA)
3. Major show playing at shea's
4. A Banana Republic or other high end fashion retailer opens its doors someplace downtown
5. several more coffee shops open doors downtown
6. 24hr restaurant downtown
7. more street vendors
8. Main Place Mall will get a very nice anchor tenant
9. Sales tax will not surpass its current rate!
10. ALL residential units filled with constant demand for more

ways to get there...

1. Merger of city / county
2. main street traffic
3. federal money to revitalize the city
4. ECC Downtown
5. Bass Pro and canal museum completed
6. Waterfront development
7. NO Liberal mayor, we need a business friendly mayor (republican)
8. some buildings downtown need facade alterations
9. Convention Center needs to be more "welcoming"
10. Buffalonians need to keep the drive going!

^^ As for mayor, if I could vote it'd be for Gaughan, because of the whole regionalism thing, and because he's technically not a democrat or a republican - but someone who can think for himself!

I have to agree 100% on that, Buffalo would never elect a Republican, and can't afford another democrat...so I see Gaughn as the answer.

Oliver's (on Delaware) is planning a new waterfont restaurant? Where exactly is it going to be located?

I can't wait for the H.O. Oats conversion to come to fruition. Combined with the new builds @ Elk Terminal, the Ben-Lin Warehouse Condos, and the Bass Pro/transit center project the Cobblestone district will be well on its way to becoming a new hotspot of retail & residential activity.

Not sure if Olivers is still a "go". They were planning on building next to Shanghai Reds on the grassy parcel adjacent to the Waterfront Village Office Buildings (its on the cul-de-sac and on the water). They made their plans known when it was uncertain whether the owners of Crawdaddy's were going to rebuild. They did and Olivers said they were also proceeding, but nothing has happened and there's been nothing in the papers. I expect it to be dead. If that's the case- the city should re-market the property.

I would like to see a Ferry to Cleveland, Erie and Toledo/Detroit someday, that would make the Harbor busier, and we would likely see more development that would be less, residential on the water...like restaurants and other developments for entertainment.

There has been talk about a ferry route several times, I don't think a massive ship like Rochester got stuck with is neccessary, but a smaller lake going vessel would be nice, or perhaps a couple smaller units.

This would be a neat way to help the waterfront, that and considering Buffalo is a 4am drinking city, the ferry boats would look more like liberty boats for the Navy leaving a drinking port...lol

Falls casino offers Buffalo answers to many key questions

As the Seneca Nation prepares to select a site here, city officials can't ignore the lessons learned

By GAIL NORHEIM
NEWS NIAGARA BUREAU
8/16/2005

In only a few weeks, the Seneca Nation of Indians is expected to announce where it plans to open a casino in Buffalo, but the debate over the value of such a gambling operation will continue for years after it opens.
Niagara Falls can attest to that.

Although the Cataract City's status as a world tourist attraction colors the comparisons between the two cities, many of the key questions being asked in Buffalo these days are being lived out 15 miles downriver.

Such questions as:

How much public good comes from the use of a large tract of nontaxable land in the heart of the city?

How serious is the threat of eminent domain to neighbors of a Seneca casino?

Do state-negotiated casino revenues equal new municipal costs?

How does a casino affect neighboring businesses?

Answers to those questions have begun to emerge in Niagara Falls but continue to be argued 21/2 years after the Seneca Niagara Casino opened in the old Niagara Falls Convention Center on New Year's Eve 2002.

Several property owners in the shadow of the casino continue to face the loss of land to growing casino development. Local governments are fighting for a share of casino revenues. And many nearby business owners have yet to see any benefit from Seneca gambling.

All that hasn't tempered hopes for brighter economic days - or taken away the reality that the Senecas will employ 3,000 people in the Falls by the time it opens its new spa hotel late this year.

"It's small thinking to be opposed to the casino," said David Fleck, who owns the Howard Johnson hotel on nearby Main Street in Niagara Falls and has been in the local hotel business for 35 years. "Overall, it is going to be the driver for our economic recovery here. On the Canadian side, it didn't take three years (to see success). It took five years.

"You've got to kind of crawl before you walk, and maybe we're just starting to crawl."

Casino just a part

Niagara Falls development officials emphasize that the casino is only part of what Niagara Falls needs: a business-friendly atmosphere that will grow through a mix of development and residents who understand that lasting, positive economic change is built with persistence, over time.

It's an understanding also advocated by those looking to remake the Buffalo waterfront and downtown.

Three major issues involving casino development in Niagara Falls are worth watching in Erie County - because all three may well be played out in the region's largest city:

Eminent domain. Under their compact with New York State, the Senecas have rights to develop a 52-acre "footprint" around the Falls casino. The state is currently moving to seize 26 acres of that land from private property owners.

Buffalo Mayor Anthony M. Masiello advocates using eminent domain, if necessary, as a tool to help the Senecas develop their casino property in his city.

Local share of casino slots revenue. Under their compact, the Senecas, as a sovereign nation, are not required to pay property, sales or bed taxes but must provide 18 percent of slots revenues to state and local government in the first four years of operation of casinos they open, including one in Buffalo. That figure will rise to 25 percent by the eighth year of the 14-year agreement. The state gets three-quarters of that money; the "host community," one-quarter.

Niagara County and the City of Niagara Falls currently are embroiled in a lawsuit over which one is the host community and how the $11.2 million in revenues from last year gets split.

Is the same sort of legal fight inevitable between cash-starved Erie County and the City of Buffalo? Masiello said if a casino is wholly located within the bounds of a city, the compensating slots revenues should go to that municipality.

"I believe that's the intent of the compact," he said. "I was very, very involved in this whole process from the beginning, and I believe we're the ones who would be providing the majority of the services. The city should receive a full appropriation."

Economic impact. Critics say the Seneca Niagara Casino is operating like an economic nation unto itself and has had little spillover economic impact in the Falls. The Senecas and state and local development officials point out that the casino has created 2,400 jobs with 1,000 more expected by year's end to staff the new Seneca hotel.

Studying the impact

The Center for Governmental Research was hired by USA Niagara Development Corp., the state's development arm in the Falls, to study Seneca Niagara's impact during 2003 and 2004.

The 100-page document explains that restaurants and hotels haven't experienced an expected boost from casino patrons: "The casino attracts principally "day trippers,' and . . . these visitors patronize businesses outside the casino only infrequently."

While some restaurant owners say they believe the casino has hurt business, project director Kent Gardner said he didn't encounter that during his interviews. "No one said they lost business," he said. "They just didn't gain any."

Ernest Sternberg, a professor in the University at Buffalo's department of urban and regional planning, sees the large former convention center that houses the Falls casino as an isolated building. He said he wants a Buffalo casino to be different.

Sternberg, who has written several papers on local tourism planning, said he thinks many small "boutique" casinos along the Chippewa and Theater districts would encourage people to visit other businesses as well.

"I'm just offering some way to make it unique," Sternberg said.

Hope for change

Many hope the lack of spin-off in Niagara Falls will change with the opening of the spa hotel.

"One of the things we would recommend is there be a little more joint marketing, so when they come to the casino they can see what else there is to do," Gardner said. "There are a lot of bodies who are coming into Niagara Falls who weren't coming in before."

Business owners along Third Street in the Falls, which faces the casino and is currently undergoing a $3 million state streetscape program, would like just a few casino patrons to try out city restaurants and bars. Meanwhile, the city, county and school district all want something, too - a share of slots revenues.

With the condemnation of 26 acres for the Senecas, $1.5 million in property taxes will be eliminated from the tax rolls.

Niagara Falls city officials say slots revenue will help them cover related costs of losing part of their tax base, but not if they have to share a great deal of that money.

Still, that's exactly what Niagara County lawmakers want. They've sued in State Supreme Court, seeking three-quarters of the local share. They've complained they were left out of negotiations and not given any of the first year's revenues, and lawyers have argued in court that county government has felt the crunch on its deputy and jail services.

Recently, the Niagara Falls City School District was added to the county's lawsuit.

It's ultimately up to state lawmakers to decide how the money is appropriated, and little progress between key players has been announced in recent months.

When it does come, slots revenues is to be used to make up for added costs for police, water, sewer and street construction, economic development and job-creation projects and to fund a gambling addiction help center.

Masiello said he is not ready yet to think about whether Erie County will launch a similar revenue chase. Meanwhile, the mayor has raised the possibility of eminent domain in Buffalo, calling it a last resort.

Masiello said he hasn't offered eminent domain to the Senecas and hasn't even had discussions during the last few weeks with nation officials on where a casino may be located.

"I hope we can all come to a consensus and that it can be done without a . . . costly eminent domain procedure," he said.

e-mail: gnorheim@buffnews.com

none of y'all took notice of my bills' logo? i feel so unwanted. :(

none of y'all took notice of my bills' logo? i feel so unwanted. :(

No, the act of homage to the NFL's best team (you might not have heard it because it's not out yet) has not gone unnoticed.

Go Bills!

New Era Cap Co. will consider moving HQ to downtown area

By JONATHAN RIVOLI
News Business Reporter
8/16/2005

Derby-based New Era Cap Co. announced Monday that it is looking for a new home and will strongly consider moving its headquarters to downtown Buffalo by the end of 2007.

John DeWaal, New Era's vice president of marketing, said the 85-year-old baseball cap maker has experienced strong sales growth over the last few years and needs to expand its manufacturing and administration facilities to keep up.

"We've pretty much just outgrown our four walls here," DeWaal said.

The company's plan involves moving its headquarters, which occupies about 30 percent of the 100,000-square-foot Derby facility, to a place that will give it twice as much room. DeWaal said New Era has some specific downtown Buffalo sites in mind, but he declined to identify them.

By moving its headquarters, New Era will open up space to add manufacturing capacity in its Derby facility, about 20 minutes south of Buffalo. DeWaal said the company will be adding jobs, but it is too early to know when or how many.

New Era, the official supplier of on-field caps for Major League Baseball, sells over 2.5 million hats per year to customers as far away as Europe, Japan and China. It employs 1,500 people worldwide, including 500 in Western New York.

"We have built this local company into a brand benefiting from national and international visibility, making it logical to relocate its corporate headquarters to downtown Buffalo," New Era CEO Christopher H. Koch said in a press release.

New Era has been working with Buffalo Niagara Enterprise, a regional economic development cooperative, to obtain incentives from state and local government agencies, BNE president Tom Kucharski said. Both he and DeWaal declined to elaborate on what incentives New Era is seeking.

And despite its interest in downtown Buffalo, New Era is also looking outside the Western New York region. Kucharski said the company is looking at numerous southeastern states including Alabama, where New Era employs about 750 people at three manufacturing and distribution facilities.

But DeWaal insists the baseball cap maker is just covering its bases. "Our preference is to stay in town, but we're not going to totally close ourselves off to other outside possibilities," he said.

In 2004, New Era closed a 340-employee factory in Buffalo's Warehouse District, citing a lack of efficiency at the aging facility. A year earlier, an 11-month strike at the Derby facility crippled production. And like many apparel makers, New Era has expanded its production in China, where it works with contractors. But DeWaal said expansion at U.S. manufacturing operations such as its plant in Derby is crucial to meeting increasing demand because domestic facilities are much better at filling custom orders. Clients' orders can be placed and executed quicker, and transportation time is lower, DeWaal said.

The BNE needs to do everything in their power to get New Era to move its HQ's to downtown Buffalo. Any comments on where you'd like to see this 60,000 sq.ft building located if it comes to fruition?

The idea to move these guys downtown would be great...These are great hats and the thing about custom orders and domestic production being good for the company gives us more hope than none.

60,000 sq ft? even if they took this office space downtown, it would be great, a local private company downtown, adding to the tax revenue and utilizing all of downtowns assets...perhaps they could top off one of the half vacant towers or even put a neon sign up someplace to add some lights.

Will they move downtown? I dunno if the city can beat out the suburbs as far as incentives...who knows.


btw...I see the parking lot across from the Hyatt (old parking garage site) is about ready to take some blacktop and become Buffalo's newest most elegant parking lot...Wonderful huh!

My bet is they'll take existing space, not a new-build, and my guess is the Larkin Bldg. They used to have a manufacturing facility in the Exchange Street corridor, so they're familiar with the neighborhood. And for some reason I don't see them taking prime Class-A space along Main Street. Maybe the Trico Bldg. or Federal Reserve Bldg.

If they go for new- Court Street Tower or Uniland's Elm/Oak north block site. :dunno:

They might go downtown, Larkin is a very intelligent idea, Trico as well.

The Fed Reserve is "taken" from what I hear...but who knows.

I doubt Paladino is going to rely on New Era to build his Maguire building, thats gonna take a big tenant.

Here are some local (regional) companies who I have yet to see in downtown Buffalo with expanded space...

Citibank, Chase, Morgan Stanley, State Farm, Crown Plaza, Hilton, Clarion, McDonalds, Nordstrom, subway or a Ruby Tuesdays.

What we do have...
M&T Bank, First Niagara, HSBC, small Citibank, Sprint PCS, Radio Shack, KeyBank, Jamestown savings bank, Bank of America, TGI Fridays, Starbucks, Spot Coffee, Pearl Street Grille, Buffalo Savings Bank, Hyatt Regency, Hampton inn, Adams Mark Hotel...

there are more, but I would like to see some of this retail space take it up a knotch and become a little more high-end.

Give up on Nordstrom- they won't be a 'first-in' to downtown. They'll stick to the Galleria or Boulevard Mall if/when they come here- I think the closest are in Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Forget the chains, concentrate on the locals.

Who is the rumored tenant for Fed'l Reserve? I figured it was New York State (Ciminelli is on the Power Authority = connections). I was surprised when DOT picked 100 Seneca.

give up? Never. lol

Well from what I was hearing, it did not give me the impression the tenant was private...So I think NYS or one of the large State agencies are looking at it...but here, there is no telling. Should just be a Federal Reserve if you ask me.

if you're gonna hope for a downtown retailer that could actually bring some younger folks downtown to shop (a bit more realistic thant 40 yr old soccer mom heading down to nordstrom), I'd look at h & m...http://www.hm.com/us/start/start/index.jsp

there's none in the area...but there are some in syracuse and one in rochester (eastview mall in victor)....but they also build downtown, ny and sf...

its a popular store, more affordable stuff...plus most younger kids around here have probably been inside one in ny, albany, roch, syracuse, etc...

i'm not saying there's been any speculation about it, or anything like that...

i just think its a good store to look for to anchor the main place or something like that...

h&m I dunno, Buffalo would need a BIG Name to get people downtown to shop...unless Macy's, Lord & Taylor or Nordstrom made the move, I doubt we would see it actually happen. Plus, like already said, these places are at the malls in Amherst, Cheektowaga.

who knows.

By the time Main St. is opened back up to car traffic and the planned residential projects are completed then you may see some national retail downtown. But DT Buffalo will never see a full fledged department store with the Walden Galleria Mall (which already has a Lord & Taylor and a soon to be Macy's store) less than 10 miles away. When H&M eventually opens up in the Buffalo area, the most likely places for them to be built would be in/around the Galleria, Boulevard, and Eastern Hills Mall areas or in the city in the Delaware Consumer Square in North Buffalo.

h&m I dunno, Buffalo would need a BIG Name to get people downtown to shop...unless Macy's, Lord & Taylor or Nordstrom made the move, I doubt we would see it actually happen. Plus, like already said, these places are at the malls in Amherst, Cheektowaga.

who knows.

I guess to me thats why H & M works. Who's gonna go downtown to shop if something opens up? Probably younger people....so H & M works in that regard...plus I'd say its a much bigger name now than in the last few years...

I also doubt we'll see it happen...but I think it could work for H & M...not too mention the fact that any decent size department store opening up downtown would be looked at as a "messiah" to buffalo...people would practically get on their knees for h & m, just for taking a chance on the city

You know, I don't wanna sound like a prick, but I've never heard of that store and I've lived in 4 states and I'm only 24. Buffalo should try its luck with Bass Pro and from there, build off it.

I did go to the H&M site..nice stuff.

Buffy you gots ta git yer but out of Batavia. H&M is big time! But I have to say it probably is not your style. It is more for the metro sexual type male.

Man, I'm rolling on the floor here.

Metro-Sexual type male....hahaha

No, a bunch of us have had this talk, when buddies of mine rock the pink, I go with the a modified "Keith Richards" modern approach to style...I pass for prep but no a metro.

you know, it's as if you all have a vision of me sitting here in my trailor in a pair of Carhardts and a Rusty Wallace Tshirt...jeez.

...if that be the case, Bring on Bass Pro! lol

If you get too big name of a retailer downtown, people in the area won't be able to afford it. We're a transitioning region from hard core blue collar to light white collar. We're not exactly a rich 1.2 million people.

If you get too big name of a retailer downtown, people in the area won't be able to afford it. We're a transitioning region from hard core blue collar to light white collar. We're not exactly a rich 1.2 million people.

Hmmm- so does that make us dirty collar? :laugh:

Lets get an Urban Outfitters for the Chippewa or Elmwood Strip...
H&M would be a nice catch for the city. Even a Barnes & Noble or Borders downtown would be cool. I think Walden Books is still in Main Place, so there is somewhat of a market. By me, the Barnes & Noble and Borders are hangout places on weekends especially with the in-house Starbucks. Imagine them in the base of the Hampton Hotel (if it wasn't already full).

State to kick in $11M for Artspace project

New York state will pitch in $11 million in funding from various sources to spur development of the planned Artspace project on Buffalo's Main Street.

The announcement was made Thursday by Gov. George Pataki's office.

The money will be awarded through the state Division of Housing and Community Renewal to create a mixed-use building complete with commercial space, artist lofts, and housing.

"We are delighted that the Buffalo project has received this award," said a statement from L. Kelley Lindquist, president of Minneapolis-based Artspace Projects Inc. "This project has been blessed with great leadership from both the City of Buffalo and the State of New York. Thanks to that leadership, we can now proudly envision a permanent and affordable home for working artists and arts organizations on Main Street in Buffalo."

The entire project is pegged at $15.5 million, according to officials. It calls for the rehabilitation of the former Buffalo Electric Vehicle building and the construction of six townhouse-style buildings on adjacent vacant land.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/6645/artspace2ci.jpg


This is the first I've heard of the six new townhouse buildings in addition to the main Artspace building. The townhouse renderings looks downright cutting edge for Buffalo. Hopefully these units will inspire other developers to bring a little imagination to the table with their future projects instead of uninspiring dreck like you'll find in the Waterfront Village.

Good to see NYS give us a little cash to help get this Residential infill rolling. Artspace looks like a nice project...hope it all goes as planned.

Barnes and Noble would be great to see on Delaware near the chippewa intersection, or maybe on Main someplace...a good book is always worth a venture downtown.

Barnes and Noble would be great to see on Delaware near the chippewa intersection, or maybe on Main someplace...a good book is always worth a venture downtown.

There's already Old Editions (http://www.oldedition.com/), Walden Books, and the Central Library downtown. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for another book place to open up downtown for a while, especially B&N that has locations near the galleria and boulevard mall already.

If you get too big name of a retailer downtown, people in the area won't be able to afford it. We're a transitioning region from hard core blue collar to light white collar. We're not exactly a rich 1.2 million people.

it's definitely affordable...not a snobby kind of place at all...thats why I think it fits perfectly...

Well Barnes and Noble would be nice...thats all.

If ECC makes this move to a downtown campus, it would likely mean good things for Book stores and office supply places downtown.

Downtown might be in for one hell of a ride if all this stuff gets going as planned...I've already seen more progress in the last year than in the 10 years prior...so lets hope thats a good sign.

that metro sexual clothing is all generic India made garbage, real clothing stores like banana Republic, Eddie bauer seem to have the quality down better. Not saying that Banana Republic is not Metro, but I think Eddie Bauer is a safe bet for just being good mens clothing.

metro...lol, Im still laughing.

that metro sexual clothing is all generic India made garbage, real clothing stores like banana Republic, Eddie bauer seem to have the quality down better. Not saying that Banana Republic is not Metro, but I think Eddie Bauer is a safe bet for just being good mens clothing.

metro...lol, Im still laughing.

I'd pretty much agree...doesn't mean that it wouldn't do well...

Tax base, thats all that matters

it's definitely affordable...not a snobby kind of place at all...thats why I think it fits perfectly...

Yeah, i wasn't saying that particular place was "too expensive" for this area...everyone was posting that a really expensive place, in general, should put a store downtown.

I used to live in Jamestown, NY and Target wouldn't put a store there because it was "too poor" to support one of their stores. That's why we have 10-15 terrible Dollar General stores.

Great thread...seems like I learn something more about Buffalo everyday. While so many of my "creative class" friends leave Buffalo for cities with density and money, perhaps we can still turn this place around.

I've been writing and posting about the Artspace development and what it means for my little east-side neighborhood since last December. My blog is called Fix Buffalo (http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com) and here's the Artspace Archive (http://fixbuffaloarchives.blogspot.com/2005/08/about-artspace.html).

Future Home of Artspace

http://photos23.flickr.com/34743134_fb425a6191.jpg

Make sure to click on the neighborhood map (http://www.gmaptrack.com/map/locations/10/1799) to check the proximity of Artspace to other developments on the City's near east-side.

The blog, chronicles numerous cases of municipal malfeasance and for the most part stays focused on the 25 block neighborhood bounded by Main - Jefferson and Ferry - Utica. I've been covering the case about the old J. N. Adam "TB" Hospital 40 miles away down in Perrysburg, NY for those of you who may be interested. Here's the JN Adam Archive (http://fixbuffaloarchives.blogspot.com/2005/02/all-about-trathenperrysburgfranzcyk.html).

Later,

David

Fix Buffalo (http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com)

David welcome aboard....I see you made your way over from SSP!

What is the story behind the old school building behind the Squire Mansion? Its a beautiful structure that looks like it may have been a catholic elementary school- or was it part of the old ECC campus at one time? I saw an old sign on it saying it was going to be converted to apartments under the Griffin Admin! Guess that wasn't followed through on. Do you know who owns it and why its also being left to rot? :down:

Behind the Squier Mansion at the corner of Ellicott and Riley lies one of several former catholic complexes that are simply being "demolished by neglect." Here's the site St. Vincents (http://preserve.bfn.org/bam/main/stvin/index.html) that is in total disaray.

Perhaps the most interesting former catholic complex is the one located at Dodge and Parade. The former German Roman Catholic Orphan Home is now owned by the Erie County CAO. Here's the information. (http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com/2005/06/cao-on-dodge-street-for-those-of-you.html)

The Transfiguration Church located at Sycamore and Mills was once part of larger complex that has been parceled into seperate properties. The Islamic Society of NA owns a couple of the buildings. I've written extensively and photo-documented the Transfiguration Church (http://fixbuffalo.blogspot.com/2005/05/shrinking-city.html) in the past few months.

See this map (http://www.gmaptrack.com/map/iframe/10/33) for additional information about things on Buffalo's east-side that are falling apart.

The St. Vincents campus is now owned by Cash Cunningham, a local business man who recently finished restoring the Squier Mansion. I heard that NYC developer recently walked away from a deal to turn the place into lofts.

atleast there is activity

It looks like the Vernor Building demolition has been approved according to the Buffalo Place website. I'm looking forward to seeing renderings of the new residential units planned on that site as well as the former Schmidt Building parcel.


At their last meeting on August 5th, the City Preservation Board approved two Downtown projects and required innovative conditions to preserve architectural elements and the historic character of the Theatre Historic District.

The Board found no significant impact from demolition of the Vernor Building at 752 Main Street. This demolition was proposed to make way for a new mixed-use development to include 100- 125 residential units, 11,500 square feet of commercial space and covered parking for 125 vehicles, hidden from the street. Project developers are required to work with the Preservation Board on development of their plans before the demolition can proceed. A historic survey of the building and reuse in the new project of architectural elements such as the terra cotta dentils and columns capitals is required.

Construction of the Vernor site residential project must start within two years of demolition. The lot must be cleared, seeded with grass, fenced and maintained, with no parking allowed. Failure to comply with the conditions will cause a required $500,000 bond to be forfeit. The City would then use this fund for preservation of at-risk buildings in the City of Buffalo.

The Preservation Board also approved construction of a parking deck on a surface parking lot at 425 Pearl, behind Appraisal.com, also with conditions that make the building appropriate to the Threatre District

sounds kinda shady with that bond idea...grass lot, lots of those downtown.

lots of bonds have been helping buildings, but not helping Buffalo.

I am not sure why they need a two year grace period to put up the building. A vacant lot sitting 2 years is a lot of time. Why not just say "do not tear down the building untill you are ready to build new". And have a clause that another developer can use the site if they have their plans ready to go sooner. That should light a fire under their seat.

[i]Failure to comply with the conditions will cause a required $500,000 bond to be forfeit. The City would then use this fund for preservation of at-risk buildings in the City of Buffalo.

You mean the entity that allows buildings to rot will oversee a fund to preserve at-risk buildings???

:weird:

You mean the entity that allows buildings to rot will oversee a fund to preserve at-risk buildings???

:weird:

On top of that it is a fund created by allowing developers to tear down those buildings and then default on their promise to build the new structure that they claim could not be built unless the old one was removed resulting in no buildings at all. But hey...we need those shovel ready sites.

is there any reason this building could remain? or will it hurt the downtown housing market?

If the purposed site is not complete yet, why would you tear this structure down? Especially its the first showroom of the Pierce Arrow car company in the world, basically the American Rolls Royce of the 20s -30s.

why dont they develope on one of the sites that are ready to build on, there are lots of them...and after they all fill up, allow the fight over landmarks and preservation.

The Vernor case has dragged on for twenty years...the owner from Cleveland has wanted to demo it for at least 15 of those years with NO plans to redevelop. At least First Amherst has stepped up with a use for the site. There was talk of at least saving the facade but even that has proven too expensive. Water damage has made the building unstable- so down it goes because the city never forced the owner to repair it and the owner left it exposed to the elements knowing eventually it would either fall into the basement or the city would permit its destruction.

I guess this is a good way to ensure the site gets developed. I do like that they are not permitting surface parking and there is a good-faith bond required. And, First Amherst is a credible developer (Elk Terminal and Granite Works). Maybe there should have been a clause that after two years the city would gain control of the property too. It is a hell of a residential location.

as long as it does not turn into something in Carl's portfolio...if you all know what I mean?

Good News. The Buffalo Rising Blog reports that work has begun on restoration of this burned out Delaware Avenue mansion. The builindg was burned several years ago by an arsonist and has stood as a shell for several years. BRJ reports that the building will also have a massive new addition on the back side

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/193/37407619796080c74e9ow.jpg

see the full BRJ article here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/buffalorising/37407619/

Great News- its also encouraging to see that it is going to be mixed use- office and residential. Sure beats an emergency demolition after a fire and resulting vacant lot or parking lot!

Here's another mixed-use candidate....

Realty group eyes NFG's former HQ building
By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
8/29/2005

The former National Fuel Gas headquarters building on Main Street in downtown Buffalo has caught the eye of a New York City-based real estate investment group.
The investors, whose identity has not been made public, are in the final stages of the due diligence period leading up to purchase of the 21-story structure, according to a real estate source involved in the deal. He said the sale will be finalized by the end of September.

"Their intent appears to be very serious. This isn't just somebody with a casual interest in a possible investment," the source said.

The investment group has indicated the building has potential for a mix of commercial and residential tenants.

National Fuel spokeswoman Julie Coppola Cox said while there's been "steady interest" in the building, "no contracts have been signed."

Built in 1959, the glass and spandrel-glazed office tower in the 400-block of Main Street overlooking Lafayette Square, has sat nearly empty since late 2003 when National Fuel relocated its headquarters operations and 500 workers to an Amherst office park. The energy company has retained its Customer Service Center on the first floor of the building.

In December 2003, Buffalo construction firm LP Ciminelli announced it planned to buy the building, but the deal was declared dead in June 2004. While the building is considered to be well-maintained and well-located, its small floor plates, lack of on-site parking and a unusual ground lease situation have worked against its sale. Buffalo developer Carl Paladino proposed converting the office tower to a 70-unit, upscale condominium building, utilizing an adjacent site he owns for parking. However, Paladino never made a formal offer to National Fuel for the housing project.

Under a complicated ownership arrangement controlled by the New York City-based Tishmann Family Trust, whoever buys the building would be tied to a 40-year land lease which is said to run more than $160,000 annually. When National Fuel put the building up for sale, it was said to be asking more than $3 million. Real estate sources said the price has come down significantly in the past year.

The building is assessed at $4.3 million.

so Tishman might have a bright future yet?

with HSBC, and now Tishman...NYC might be helping Buffalo out quite a bit.

The building is actually quite nice, and I hope whoever decides to take it, can create a very modern building within, so if it ever needs tenants, it will be easier to get them.

The mansion on Delaware is a sad story, good to see some promising news come thru.

Was in Buffalo last night...doing some photography.

any news on Bass Pro?

Downtown supper club to be reborn: Developer Marc Alfieri has announced plans to transform the once grand Club 31, most recently Buddies tavern, into an elegant supper club at the corner of South Elmwood Avenue and Johnson Park.

Alfieri, whose resume includes the former Stuffed Mushroom on Main Street, Mulligan's Night Club on Hertel Avenue, the Comedy Trap chain and the current Crocodile Bar on Chippewa Street, said he and his partners will invest some $500,000 to recreate the Downtown dining nostalgia of Club 31.

Alfieri will partner with Jeff Mucciarelli and Tony Caggiano and plan on beginning to remodel the former club site by mid-September. Plans call for an upscale 100-seat restaurant with a bar area, separated by an "open kitchen" on the first floor. A banquet facility accommodating 70 would be on the second floor.

The building's exterior is also slated for restoration along with the addition of new porches and balconies for outdoor dining. The City Planning Board has already given its approval for building design. The new Club 31 is slated to be open by year's end.
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don't take this the wrong way anyone...but was Buddies a gay-club?

and what about this next place?

Interesting for sure. I didn't realize how many projects are underway here. If only they could annex some of the more dence suburbs, ya know? Unfortunatley nobody in the local government can seem to agree with eachother so id doubt it will happen any time soon.

The only thing is-people are moving out because of lack jobs, among other things. Most of those projects are appartments. We need jobs, not real estate. Who knows though, maybe things will work out.

Also...I want to see some nice restraunts pop up downtown! All they have currently are fast food places and cafes!

Also move some of chippewas bars to main st or something and replace them w/ restraunts, a street completley filled with bars isn't so smart.

Come to the Buffalo Wing Festival everyone!

Come on, with a name like "Buddies," do you really have to ask if it was a gay bar? Ha ha. Gay or str8, it really doesn't matter, the place was a dump. It is good to hear that the new owners are going to invest more than $500,000 into it for renovations. A swanky supper club at that location is more of an asset to the community than a run-down, dirty gay club. Now if the bar was better taken care of, like say Fugazi on Franklin Street, then maybe I wouldn't be so quick to say "good riddance" to Buddies. Also, as a resident of the West Village, very close to Buddies, I have to say that the partrons of that bar were not always very polite to the neighborhood. There have been several reports from my friends and neighbors who live on the park of guys who apparently hooked up at the bar, and were too cheap to get a room. I mean, who wants to walk past two "Buffalo Bears" getting it on in the back seat of a car parked on Johnson Park--and I've heard stories about them getting on on hoods of cars too. That's just gross, gay or straight. Club 31 will bring back a little class to the neighborhood, and I agree with the previous post that that's exactly what downtown needs, some more upscale restaurants. Though I have to disagree somewhat too, because there is a lot more downtown now than fast food joints. Papaya, The Chop House, EB Green's, Ya Ya Brewhouse, The Bijou, The Brownstown Seafood Bar, Fiddlehead's, Bellini's, Tempo, Prespa, Bacchus, The City Grill, Shanghai Red's are all places I go to quite frequently--and they are not fast food places. But we could always use more!

...AND I WILL DEFINITELY BE AT THE WING FESTIVAL!

Okay, I guessed right.

When I returned home from the service back in 2003, I went to Buffalo one night with some friends, well I remember going by this place...there was some guy outside who looked like the biker from the village people...I was like wtf was that a new Harley dealer downtown?

Nothing against gay bars, because everyone should be able to go where they want...but the sexual activity outside the confines of a private location or atleast not in public view is wrong, no matter what the preference.

Ah, I would not be too quick to break up Chippewa strip...it's the nightlife of WNY.

All I am saying is crime there is terrible. I'd like to keep the strip, I just want to see a few bars be moved elsewhere, and replaced with some other form of entertainment. Also, they should have cops patrol that street more often. Not the best place to be after midnight.

Of course they should keep the strip though, it's one of the few places downtown that are still active. I just think its sad what goes on there during the night.

Also, another random thought that poped into my head- I've heard that both Fuccillo and airport plaza jewlers are quite successful. If more businesses around here would advertise, it would probably help them alot.

From what I here and have experienced, Chipawa is quite safe. Of course they have had probelms with certain bars (all of which have been closed down by the city and if you pack that many drunks into so few blocks you are certain to have a few obnoxious block head try to test the density of each others skulls. But, all in all not a bad place to be. The only place I have ever experienced crime has been at a suburban mall.

I was actually looking for information on progress with the waterfront development and found this site thankfully. I was just curious if any of you have a site where there is more up to date information on the progress of the peace bridge expansion. I read a Buffalo News article about the design process a little while ago, but havent seen anything since.

Thanks

http://www.peacebridge.com/

Hehe, how obvious =p

Coincidentally, I had thought to search for Peace Bridge in google and got all the obvious sites, but thanks for the vote of confidence. I just thought there may be a public site run by someone with an interest that would have more up to date information. Like I mentioned the most recent information I have found is a news article. The posters on this thread just seem to find more information on Buffalo development then I have seen and being a waterfront guru I search for news all the time.

Also try the New Millenium Group website- not sure how often they update it, but they are active in the Peace Bridge debate:

http://www.nmgonline.org/Tools/Status/frontend/itemlist.asp?reset=1

And welcome aboard UBMed!

another Buffalo forumer....AWSOME.

Looks like the Buff is getting to be a pretty popular place.

^ As long as it doesn't turn into "in the Buff" lol

September is here...I think we have about 6-7 weeks before we see our first snow.

The parking garage on the Niagara Center is looking good.

September is here...I think we have about 6-7 weeks before we see our first snow.

The parking garage on the Niagara Center is looking good.

Looking Good? I hope you meant "It is looking like construction is coming along good." Parking garages are awful- especially when done Buffalo-style...

On a brighter note:

2 downtown warehouses to become lofts

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
9/2/2005

Two new downtown housing projects will turn warehouses into more than 50 residential lofts by the end of next year. :)

A group led by Buffalo architect Jake Schneider has unveiled plans to convert the long-vacant Seneca Paper Co. building at 210 Ellicott St., near Eagle St., into as many as 30 up-market lofts, plus a floor of office space. The $5 million project, the first residential project for Schneider, is scheduled to get under way by early January.

Meanwhile, developer Rocco Termini is launching a fourth apartment venture, with the goal of turning the Kasting's Flower Warehouse, at 362 Oak St., into a 24-unit apartment complex. Construction on that $4.5 million effort is set to get started next week.

These two new housing developments, which will both welcome their first tenants in 2006, join a growing list of downtown housing initiatives with the potential to deliver close to 400 new apartments and condominiums in the next 15 months.

"You can't have a great downtown without great housing, and I would argue that Buffalo is positioning itself as the urban capital of upstate New York," said Mayor Anthony M. Masiello. "We are lucky to have so many developers here with great talent and great vision who are giving us an eclectic mix of housing that rivals what you'd find in Chicago, Boston or San Francisco."

Schneider, along with partners David Resetarits and Tom Kiener, plans to reinvent the long-vacant, seven-story Seneca Paper warehouse as four upper floors of apartments and a single floor of office space. The building's first floor and basement are targeted as enclosed parking, with space for as many as 50 vehicles.

"It's an ideal loft apartment building," Schneider said. "It has lots of windows, nice high ceilings and very solid construction, and it has wonderful views to the east, of city neighborhoods and the Boston hills."

Most of the units will be two-bedroom apartments as large as 1,800 square feet. Some one-bedrooms, starting at 900 square feet, will also be part of the mix. The developers have not yet set prices for the units.

The Seneca Paper building should be ready for occupancy by next fall.

The Kasting's Flower Warehouse project on Oak Street is part of a growing enclave of downtown residential projects undertaken by Termini. His Ellicott Lofts and the first phase of Ellicott Commons are located directly behind the latest project, in the 600-block of Ellicott Street.

The "IS Lofts" project will feature one-bedroom units, with a European feel, that will rent for around $775 a month. Termini this week completed a financing package for the project, which includes state Community Preservation Corp. "work force housing" funds.

"This is the first project in the area to tap these funds," Termini said. "Twenty of the units will be designated for persons who earn 90 percent or less of the median income."


A model unit is slated to open in December with tenants arriving in March.

Probably can say by-by to Buffalo's new courthouse. The feds are going to be drained dry by New Orleans reconstruction needs.


Not that I do not feel for the terrible plight of the people there but, this is another example of the rustbelt being syphoned to pay for development in other parts of the country. This disaster was known to be imminent for a long time but the state of Louisiana and the citizens of New Orleans chose not to address it with their own tax money.

NY state gets penalized with high taxes because it takes care of its own.

The federal government has chosen to fund a $250M pork barrel bridge to nowhere in Alaska while drastically reducing levee spending. In the mean time the state of Louisiana refused over 40 years to raise the needed money through taxes in their own state. So now poor little old Buffalo will be asked to sacrifice so that its federal taxes is used to build the bridge in Alaska and to fund reconstruction in New Orleans

Im not saying I didn't want the new Courthouse...but come on it is not NEEDED. The important thing will be getting the largest port in the south up and running to restore economic conditions, if that fails Buffalo will lose more than a flashy courthouse.

btw...I doubt myself that the plans on the courthouse will be scrapped...they are gonna want a courthouse to handle the border and immigration trials (more serious) in Buffalo...thats homeland security down dirty...so I would not say its gone.

I think that the new courthouse is needed. Have you ever seen how tiny the current one is? I just hope that it's not dead in the water. Let's wait and see. In the meantime, here's some more good news to focus on:

Canisius opens tallest student housing dorm

Canisius College, on Thursday morning, officially unveiled Eastwood Hall, the tallest and largest dorm on its Buffalo campus.

The seven-story, 104,000-square-foot dorm will be home to 270 freshmen and sophomores and will help Canisius ease its student housing crunch. Eastwood is the first new dorm Canisius has constructed since the Delavan Townhouse projects that opened in 2001 and 2002.

The demand for on-campus housing at Canisius has increased dramatically during the past decade with some 76 percent of this fall's applicant pool indicating a desire to live on the campus.

Since 1995, Canisius has spent $63 million on eight new student housing projects.

"Canisius has placed the highest priority on creating first-class residence halls, classrooms and recreational spaces that are equal to any in the nation," said Rev. Vincent Cooke, Canisius president. "It allows us to attract more residential students from Erie County and beyond. That's not only good for Canisius, it's also good for Buffalo."

The $19 million project was designed by Cannon Design while GPS Construction was the general contractor.

Canisius has 11 student housing facilities that, combined, can handle 1,588 students or roughly half of its full-time 3,200 under graduate student population. A decade ago just 843 students lived in an on-campus dorm or housing facility.


...That's a lot more students living in Buffalo, instead of commuting, and that's a good thing! Canisius has done a lot for Buffalo.

i think the new court house is badly needed from an aesthetic viewpoint...we badly need something that looks new in our downtown...we also need height, which we really don't get from this court house...but it will look so nice down there.

Really? I think the new courthouse looks even uglier then the original! It's just out of place next to Statler and City hall. They need to change the design IMO. Lets see some art deco or something similar in the statler style, and heavy in decorations like the old prudential buildiing :)

^ the old courthouse building is probably one of the ugliest pieces of architecture in the history of the world...it is a semi-brutalist soviet looking building and should be torn down (if they don't already have plans)...I think 99% of Buffalonians will love having the new courthouse built...Buffalo badly needs any new building, and I think the new courthouse will add some nice diversity of architecture downtown...and I don't have a problem with the late-modernism/borderline postmodern style of the new building...we need something modern down there and I'm excited to be getting it....I'd prefer a 50 or more story building, but this will be nice

A 50 story courthouse! I don't know. I don't really care much about height though, just beauty. And I actually like the old courthouse, lol. But the way the city is set up is perfect for a picture, and if they are going to build a building taller then HSBC, they better make HSBC even higher! lol.

Buffalo City Court (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ah.bfn.org/a/archsty/jpegs/brut.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ah.bfn.org/a/archsty/&h=100&w=79&sz=9&tbnid=y4rl_gY0gbMJ:&tbnh=77&tbnw=60&hl=en&start=27&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuffalo%2Bcity%2Bcourt%26start%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN)

Beautiful!

I guess the new court isnt THAT ugly, but I just hope this doesn't mean the start of an era of tearing down architectural gems and replacing them with modern styles like what has happened in so many other cities. These old styles is what makes Buffalo Buffalo!

^ I didn't say a 50 story court building...i meant any type of building in general...I think the Buff needs more height...we def need more density especially between HSBC and Main Place but height is badly needed as well.

I wanna see Buffalo with a mighty skyline some day...something we can be proud of...we are certainly proud of a bunch of our buildings, but our skyline is sub-par

Excellent news about the 2 new loft projects. The Seneca Paper building renovation will hopefully bring some life to that dead block on Ellicott St. Now only if something would be done with the massive surface parking lot across the street from it.

Anyone scoop on whats going on with the mixed use project at the former Benlin Warehouse next to the HSBC Arena. There have been construction signs up for months but I have yet to see any activity at the site.

Excellent news about the 2 new loft projects. The Seneca Paper building renovation will hopefully bring some life to that dead block on Ellicott St. Now only if something would be done with the massive surface parking lot across the street from it.

Anyone scoop on whats going on with the mixed use project at the former Benlin Warehouse next to the HSBC Arena. There have been construction signs up for months but I have yet to see any activity at the site.

The parking lot was eyed for ECC expansion- but that is going nowhere. I'm hoping the Lafayette Hotel is redeveloped and Burke pursues the AM&As project. These two blocks in the center of downtown are bleak, and slowly we're starting to see development take place on the east side of Main.

I haven't heard what the timetable is for Benlin- they didn't include a schedule when the project was announced in January 2005. Its only been nine months- if we get into next Spring without any work started, it could be a sign of trouble. It would have been nice to have a restaurant up and running for the hockey season.

New Canisius College residence hall nearing completion

http://www.canisius.edu/images/userImages/chuckp/Page_7419/eastwood1.jpg

As far as the New Courthouse getting built, like I said before...it will still get built.

The Brutalist style court that we see at Niagara Square is the Buffalo City Court building, the federal court in Buffalo now is along court street, it's not a bad looking building more like a 1930's post office or something, but decent.

The new Courthouse will be blue and translucent, combined with the City Hall, Statler, State Court, Federal Court, Buffalo Athletic Club and a parking ramp...it should be fine.

Height would be nice...but density is much more important.

look at it this way, Buffalo needs morale before it can have an ego.

^I agree with height is nice, but density is more important.

see...I'm not dumb, lol.

DL&W is casino front-runner
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old riverfront terminal reportedly tops Senecas' list of 3 downtown sites

By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
9/7/2005

A downtown rail terminal and adjoining city-owned parking lot has emerged as the leading site for the Seneca Nation of Indians' Buffalo casino.
Sources with knowledge of the Senecas' undisclosed "short list" of three potential city casino locations said Tuesday the former Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad terminal, located at the foot of Main Street directly behind the HSBC Arena, is the leading candidate.

Built in 1917 as part of the DL&W rail and ship terminal complex, the nearly block-long, two-story structure is currently owned by the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority, which uses the ground floor to house and service its Metro Rail cars.

Neither Seneca nor NFTA representatives would comment on the rumored casino site on Tuesday. However, a Seneca source confirmed a contingent from the nation, which included officials of Seneca Gaming Corp. and the nation's Economic Development Committee, were given an extensive tour of the building in late August.

Seneca Nation President Barry Snyder Sr. said Sept. 1 he hopes to announce the Buffalo location by the end of the month. Snyder and Rajat Shah, a Seneca Gaming executive, confirmed the nation is focusing on three downtown sites for a 120,000-square-foot casino that would open by late 2007.

The vacant upper floor of the rail building - an enclosed space that's approximately the size of a football field and overlooks the Buffalo River - has long been viewed as the perfect location for the right development project. While it has sat largely idle since the early 1960s, it has been proposed as the site for everything from a shopping mall to museum space to an office complex, but none of the ventures progressed beyond the design stage.

The building's heavy-duty construction and open-floor plan are seen as making it well suited as a gaming venue. The sturdy construction, which includes foundation piers extending about 80 feet below the building, opens the door to adding several upper floors to the existing structure.

Another plus is its location - right in the heart of the emerging Erie Canal Harbor Entertainment District. It would offer easy access to HSBC Arena, the planned Bass Pro Shops store in Memorial Auditorium and an adjacent Great Lakes-Erie Canal museum, as well as the downtown waterfront and Naval & Servicemen's Park, which are both undergoing an ambitious reconstruction.

The Senecas also are said to be eyeing the so-called Cobblestone parking lot, situated less than 50 yards from the south end of the DL&W terminal, bounded by South Park Avenue and Perry, Mississippi and Columbia streets. The 900-vehicle lot would have enough space for large-scale parking decks that could be directly connected to the gaming hall.

The city-owned surface parking lot, which is used for Buffalo Sabres games and other HSBC Arena events, has been discussed as a future development site. In the late 1990s, the city promoted the idea of locating a $25 million amateur hockey complex on the site. At that time, planners already had envisioned construction of ramps to replace surface slots for rink and event parkers.

The Cobblestone district and the adjoining "Ohio Basin" neighborhood also have the potential to provide sites for the Senecas or private developers to create nearby housing for casino workers.

This is not the first Erie Canal Harbor/Cobblestone neighborhood site the Senecas have sized up. The nation is said to have made inquiries to HSBC Bank earlier this summer about its Atrium Building property on Washington Street.
________________________________________

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/80/vernor20014ie.jpg

Traffic might be a little hellish on hockey nights...and I'd hate to see all of that lot used for parking (parking is a street killer). At least use the portion fronting (Mississipi?) next to the Benlin Warehouse on the right open for residential or commercial use. Benlin is a planned residential loft project.

The site is far enough away from Chippewa and downtown offices as to not have a significant impact. No, there won't be any spin-off development from the casino. Has there been any spin-off development from the racino at the raceway? These are locals gambling. It may benefit by being near Bass Pro and feed off the out of towners that are said to be coming to visit their store. And its not true waterfront property that would be ideal for residential or open space- so its a good choice I'd say.

They didn't discuss the issue of the light rail trains. Would the NFTA now lease space from the Senecas on the ground floor for their operations. The terminal needs to become sovereign land in order to have gaming. Or will the NFTA relocate?

yeah, i'm not a big fan of the casino idea. However, it looks like its going to happen at this point. And I like this potential frontrunner site. Kind of out of the way, but not too far, and using some waterfront space, but not the most prime spot...

from what i gathered in the article, it almost seems that the 2nd floor is the proposed casino site, and the bottom floor might remain nfta operated, owned....not sure if the whole sovereignty issue needs to be attached to a ground level piece of land or if a "story" of a building will work...

interesting to see if another light rail stop is added a couple hundred feet from the last one...almost inside the casino...

This would probably be the best location for a casino. This area is developing into a kitchy tourist center and all the elements can work well together including the fact that people can easily take Metro rail up Main Street to their hotels. It is also outside the main part of downtown so it will not be this giant classless thing in the center of an area that needs to convey sophistication and importance.

The fact that Bass Pro is already planned is perfect in that people will know about both major attractions and will plan their trip based on that. If you are a Pittsburgher or Clevelandian you will know that a long weekend gettaway in Buffalo is packed with stuff to do. Visit Bass Pro, do some gambling, See a navy destroyer,take a boat ride, go to Niagara Falls. It can really work.

Most likely the clientel will not be the same for Buffalo's other attractions such as its fine restaurants, Albright Knox, Martin House (and other architectural gems) But they will bring in their own people. A good mix of types of people coming into the city is a plus.

Compare this to gamling in Detroit. What else do you do their except gamble. LAs Vegas has shown that even in the meca of gambling it is important to have other stuff going on.

again, i do like this spot...and agree with steel's comments...

and although we're aware that there is little development spinoff related to casinos, merging this project with bass pro and the already existing hsbc arena may make for a few more bars or restaurants down along the river or in the cobblestone district...

"In the 1830's The Canal Street area became well known for its boisterous saloons and "colorful" inhabitants. Paralleling the Erie Canal, Canal Street was known as "The wickedest street in the world." It was to house over 100 saloons and dancing houses, innumerable houses of ill repute and the attendant darker aspects of society which accompany those things. Lake sailors and canal sailors were a hard working bunch of men and they played hard as well. They rarely got along with each other. Their brawls were legendary; all part of the local color in the Canal District. "

http://history.buffalonet.org/1832-40.html

seems like an appropriate place for a casino then right? i'm not sure exactly where canal street was, but it was around this general area...

who wouldn't want to stop into the "canal street alehouse", or the "buffalo brothel saloon" after a sabres game?

here i go again,

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/buffalo_ny_1896.jpg

if you make this pic bigger, you know with the little button that windows lets you use when you hold your mouse over the pic, you can get a good idea of the canal, canal street etc...

looks like canal st was pretty much behind the current naval park...connecting erie st with main st...ending pretty much where the Aud is now, close to the proposed casino site...

how many people have friends who would want to visit the proclaimed "wickedest street in the world" in the "city of no illusions", damn that sounds awesome

so...i just walked down to the proposed site on my lunch break...i'll try and bring a camera tomorrow...

http://wnyheritagepress.org/photos_week_2004/dlw_terminal/dlw_terminal.htm

i found these online...but i'm pretty sure what i just looked at doesn't quite look the same...

but i definitely thinkg there is potential for a great site. seymour knox III way wraps around the back of the hsbc arena and points you right in the direction of proposed site...right to the back of a cobblestone street...its quite nice...

A new regional Geico HQ opened up in amherst and is expected to eventually house up to 25,000 jobs.

so...i just walked down to the proposed site on my lunch break...i'll try and bring a camera tomorrow...

http://wnyheritagepress.org/photos_week_2004/dlw_terminal/dlw_terminal.htm

i found these online...but i'm pretty sure what i just looked at doesn't quite look the same...

but i definitely thinkg there is potential for a great site. seymour knox III way wraps around the back of the hsbc arena and points you right in the direction of proposed site...right to the back of a cobblestone street...its quite nice...

Unfortunately they chopped off the office portion (three story part) of the building. Maybe the Senecas can restore it to its original condition. BTW- GEICO is going to be hiring up to 3000, not 25,000. Gosh- 25,000 people would require 5,000,000 sq.ft. of office space at 200 sq.ft. each!

Maybe it was 2,500 lol. Or maybe the news is screwed up in the head. The steel plant at it's peak housed 100,000 jobs though, although it covers alot of land space.

The portion of the terminal that was torn down was mostly a grand concourse. It was very beautiful but unfortunately with many beautiful things our society had no use for it.

Google does it again.

They have improved on their spectacular Keyhole satelite service with the new upgrade called Google Earth. It has now has 3 dimmensional buildings. They do not have whole cities yet but from the looks of it they are planning on eventually inputting all buildings.

Take a look

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9532/googleearth14gm.jpg

While I am on the subject. Here is a satelite pic of the DL&W terminal alongside HSBC Arena

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/6483/arena4ug.jpg

Just drove by that site today on my way home from work (Michigan St bridge), as I do every day. I have to say, having never thought of a site like that myself, it does appear to be the best overall location, for all the reasons mentioned previously. Seems like it could be a good anchor along with Bass Pro to help kick start the waterfront redevelopment. In and of itself I would say it's nothing, but it would definitely have a good role in the big picture scenario.

I have to say, though, it would be nice if they could actually reduce the parking lottage of that area. That has to be among the worst in the city. Some infill in that area would really help offset the "forgotten abandoned" look it has now, from Michigan St at least.

That Google stuff looks incredible! You wouldn't happen to be able to pull building dimensions off that stuff now, would you? What a boon to the SimCity BATer (such as myself) that would be. I could start whipping out medium quality "filler" buildings in no time, to supplement all the major ones for which I intend on doing high quality renditions of (eventually).

Google earth has been around for a pretty long time now no? It's pretty cool though. I don't think you can pull that stuff off of google earth to BAT with it. I've been using it for reference in my bats though. It has a cool measure tool as well.

Well lets take a look at the positive sides of the location of a possible casino being right there at the foot of main...

Waterfront access, small boats or ferry type boats can bring players right to the doors. Also Sabres, Museum goers and Bass Pro shoppers will have more to do while downtown. Overall this should lead to added Hotels, restaurants and perhaps more of an entertainment district down there...perhaps something very nice could happen here.

As far as NTFA taking the space on the bottom level...I thought a new Transportation Hub was part of the Bass Pro deal, and was the reason for the removal of the Donovan State Building? This is the way to go if thats the intent of that site.

Speaking of extending the Metro Rail...the I-190 Corridor would be ideal atleast until Larkin if not further.

Was down here last night...yes more photos.

A restaurant and bar with a patio overlooking the Buffalo River would be great. You are practically right on top of the water there. I imagine they'll build a new light rail maintenance facility and yard to the east of the present facility or in the old First Ward. I can't see a casino and light rail trains being a long-term mix especially if the Senecas take title to the building.

The rail line should continue in the direction of Larkin and Central Terminal...getting the East Side on the system might help get things back on track for that area.

I have mixed feelings about the casino idea as well. Wish it could be right in the city centre, but it is very, very, close to the waterfront and access to that trail I was on a couple of months ago walking along the marina. With that addition, there will certainly be more to do in Buffalo! :)

I wish the rail line could continue to the airport, it is definitely possible and we found out one day.

from URL=http://www.buffaloplaceereport.com/planning/main.html
Blue Cross/Blue Shield of WNY will come before the Buffalo Preservation Board to
request a certificate of activity for the design and construction of their proposed HealthNow Corporate Headquarters building to be located at 249 West Genesee Street. The proposal includes the construction of a 451,600 SF building and a 1,530 space parking garage on site. The office building will consist of four elements as follows:
- A one-story section connected to the historic Gas Works façade with a roof top terrace immediately behind the façade
- An eight-story tower with a curving curtain wall façade with sun shades along the southern exposure behind the one-story section with a more contemporary design with punched openings on the north & east facades
- A six-story operations center with punched window openings
- A seven-story atrium space that will connect the six and eight story portions of the building

The project will come before the Preservation Board because it is being constructed on the site of the former Buffalo Gas Light Company, a place of local historic significance. Buffalo's first architect, John H Selkirk, designed the arcaded Romanesque facade in 1859. It is the only feature of the Gas Light Company that still stands today. This outstanding feature is 250-foot in length and is constructed of ashlar stone. The City Planning Board will hold a public hearing on the project next week, Tuesday, September 13th at 8:00 a.m. in room 901 of City Hall. They will then consider the environmental impact of the project under the New York State Environmental Quality Review Act.

In other business, the City Planning Board will also consider design and site plan review for demolition of a building at 25 High Street, to be replaced with a new multi-story office building and parking for use by AIDS Community Services. This project has been presented by Evergreen Real Estate Properties.

see...I'm not dumb, lol.
I don't believe I ever said you were.

I see some work was being done on Main street right by the HSBC arena...preps for the Bass Pro? also, Donovan does not seem empty yet...still not hearing anything about a transit hub.

It could be part of Erie Canal Harbor- that work was supposed to restart this summer. The only lease that I've heard in connection to the State moving out of Donovan was DOT going into Paladino's 100 Seneca Street. He was planning a renovation for that building- possibly adding windows? Has that work commenced? I think the State was hoping to have leases secured before the end of the year for all the agencies moving out. I'd expect they'd be gone by mid-2006 and demo happening late next year (after asbestos removal?).

It could be part of Erie Canal Harbor- that work was supposed to restart this summer.
Was there ever any explanation why no work was done on the inner harbor all summer long? It's been a perfect summer for construction (almost no rain) and it sat rotting. I noticed they even had the little observation platform fenced off. I went down there with out-of-town friends while walking from the marina, and they were wondernig why I wanted to stop and look at an abandoned lot full of weeds and plastic. I said, "That will be a harbor in 2 years supposedly." Yeah right. If they completely wasted this summer, how will they get done in 2 years? (whatever "done" means)

Check out these pics of the Statler Building. Damn, they need to restore that building!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/buffalorising/sets/463925/show/

The Hotel Statler in the link is not the Statler Hilton Building that currently stands. It was an earlier Hotel on a different site that has been gone for over 70 years.

True- I believe the old Statler was located where Dunn Tire Park is now. What a building though- it looks like the Guaranty Bldg.- too bad it was demolished. :bash:

The old statler was awsome, the new one is great, Buffalo had money then...it was a place to be seen in, not today, not YET.

Things are coming together, new Mayor, new Governor will be interesting.

Lets get this forum up to speed. Here's some news from the Planning Board's September 27th agenda:

Benlin Building/26 Mississippi Street. Design and site plan review for the renovation of warehouses to offices, lofts & retail space.
http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/8796/benlinplanned0ub.jpg


Also noteworthy:

Western New York MRI. 700 Michigan Avenue. Request to review changes on exterior facing of building material from previously approved site plan on 7/27/04.

This project has been planned for a long time. It is at the corner of Genesee and Michigan and can be considered part of the Elm/Oak corridor.

Burchfield Penney Art Center. 1300 Elmwood. Design and site plan review for the construction of an art center and gallery.

this is such an awsome area...the cobblestone district is so genuine, most cities can only wish they still had the old style streets, Buffalo has something (again) that most others do not.


I imagine once a few of these projects get started others will follow. It sure would be nice to see a Hard Rock cafe' down by the arena there is still alot of options for the city...lets hope they figure it out right.

Private-sector job count keeps growing

The Buffalo Niagara region added 2,200 private-sector jobs in the past year, the state Department of Labor reported Thursday.

The year-over-year figures, a gain of 0.5 percent, are for August 2004 through this past August.

The area's unemployment rate was 5 percent in August, down from 5.6 percent in July and 5.3 percent in August of last year.

The Buffalo area was among eight upstate metropolitan regions adding private-sector jobs in the past year while three others, including Rochester, reported losses. In Rochester the number of private-sector jobs has decreased by 4,700, or 1.1 percent. The unemployment rate there, however, fell to 4.5 percent in August, compared with 5 percent in July and 4.8 in August 2004.

Labor department statistics show New York state private-sector employment was up 81,400, or 1.2 percent, in the past year. The statewide unemployment level declined to 4.7 percent, lower than 5.1 percent in July and 5.6 percent from last August.



© 2005 American City Business Journals Inc

this is such an awsome area...the cobblestone district is so genuine, most cities can only wish they still had the old style streets, Buffalo has something (again) that most others do not.


I imagine once a few of these projects get started others will follow. It sure would be nice to see a Hard Rock cafe' down by the arena there is still alot of options for the city...lets hope they figure it out right.

Here's the ideal candidate for the next conversion project in Cobblestone, the Peerless Supply bldg. to the west of Benlin. It is right next to the arena's parking ramp, and is the closest old building to Main Street and the river, Bass Pro, Erie Canal Harbor. The owner is sitting on a gold mine.

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8667/peerless4ek.jpg

ECC downtown will help with some of this infill, but it won't fill it completely. There seems to be some good signs for Buffalo, thats options...they have so much to work with.

If I was someone like Tom Galisano...I would BUY Buffalo.

I love the Cobblestone area...I could just walk around for hours, even though there's not much to see...

Here's hoping the Sabres can anchor that spot for years to come...

So who do you guys want to be mayor? Personally I don't think I 100% trust either of the canidates, but I would like to see Helfer win. Brown seems like a nice guy but I don't think he will be as effective of a mayor as Helfer, and for some odd reason, starting about a week ago I've been getting bad gut feelings about the guy.

^ me too, as I mentioned in the keys to bringing back Buffalo thread. I'm afraid that a Brown administration could be more regressive than Masiello. This man is not the answer, and I just hope we don't need to find out the hard way.

I'm an outsider, but it seems that Kevin Gaughan would have been the only candidate that would have enacted serious changes in the city of Buffalo that could not only stem decline, but bring back population to the city and Metro as a whole.
however, since he lost in the primary I need to learn more about the other candidates but as of right now I'd pick Helfer over Brown.

Byron Brown seems to have his hands already tied by too many special interest groups. If he gets elected it will be more of the same ol' same ol' Buffalo-style politics.

It is definitely not a race issue, despite Brown's campaign trying to throw the "race card" about Helfer's tv ads.
Brown just doesn't want to admit the facts to be truth.

...seems that Kevin Gaughan would have been the only candidate that would have enacted serious changes...

Darn tootin'!

i liked Gaughan the best too, it's a shame that the people that live in the city seem so blind minded.

Previously Reported, but some new details including Palladino getting other state tenants and Niagara Tower also getting a lease or two. No details on what renovations Paladino will undertake at 100 Seneca.

State DOT heading to 100 Seneca
By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
9/19/2005

The state Department of Transportation's Buffalo office appears to be headed to an address all its own as the state makes plans to vacate the Donovan State Office Building.

Based on documents filed with the city Planning Board, the local DOT office, with its 250-plus workers will relocate to 100 Seneca St., an office building owned by Ellicott Development Co. The DOT, the largest Donovan Building tenant, will be the sole occupant of the five-story, nearly 80,000-square-foot office building.

The expected lease would go a long way to secure the DOT's long-term presence downtown. Last fall, state DOT officials considered overhauling the regional headquarters system, potentially moving the bulk of local DOT functions to Rochester.

Carl Paladino, a principal of Ellicott Development, said it is premature to discuss the state's plans for the building, the former home of Empire of America Federal Savings Bank, and later Empire of America Realty Credit Corp.

For several years, the "Big E" logo and a large digital time and temperature display at the top of the building were downtown landmarks.

Jennifer Morris, a spokeswoman for the state Office of General Services, declined to comment on the expected DOT move except to say that the office is continuing to complete plans to relocate all of the Donovan Building's tenants from 125 Main St. to new quarters ahead of the planned demolition of the state-owned office tower.

Ellicott Development is said to be negotiating with the Office of General Services for additional Donovan Building tenants for two other downtown office sites. Iskalo Development, which owns the landmark Electric Tower at Roosevelt Square, is also said to be in line for state tenants. :)

Morris confirmed that the state's original timetable, which would have seen the Donovan Building vacated by the end of 2005, has been pushed back a few months.

"There will definitely be some offices departing by the end of the year, but the building probably won't be completely empty until the end of the first quarter of 2006," she said.

The McGuire Group, a nursing home operator with headquarters at 100 Seneca St., will move to 560 Delaware Ave. Erie Community College recently moved a training center out of the building.

Last December, the Office of General Services issued a request for proposals from downtown landlords for office space for the approximately 430 state workers housed in the Donovan Building, located near the foot of Main Street, across from Memorial Auditorium. The 146,000-square-foot state building is slated to be demolished to make room for a combination parking deck/intermodal transportation center, which will be linked to Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World store planned for Memorial Auditorium.

The Donovan Building is expected to be razed early next spring as construction gets under way for the Bass Pro project.

...Also interesting in this morning's Buffalo News:

Construction to begin on Main Street eye clinic
By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
9/19/2005

Plans for a new eye research and treatment center on Main Street near the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus are moving ahead.
Construction of the Ira G. Ross Eye Institute is expected to get under way next month. University Ophthalmology Services will develop the 22,000-square-foot medical complex at 1176 Main St., rehabilitating a building that fronts Main Street and adding a 7,000-square-foot structure at its rear.

The project also will include an enclosed walkway connecting to the Elizabeth Pierce Olmsted Center for the Visually Impaired. The $4 million project, which is being funded primarily through the University at Buffalo School of Medicine and Biomedical Sciences, will bring eye specialists and researchers under one roof.

The facility will contain examination/consulting rooms, an imaging center, pathology labs, administration offices and a medical library. The project also will involve landscaping, sidewalk and lighting improvements.

The project, first proposed in November 2003, received a green light from the Buffalo Urban Renewal Agency last week, along with $100,000 to assist in creating eight full-time jobs. The institute will focus on outpatient care, especially to the indigent, along with research opportunities for UB Medical School staff and students.

"This is another sign that the Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus is drawing further investment to that Main Street neighborhood," Buffalo Mayor Anthony M. Masiello said.

The planned Ira G. Ross Eye Institute and the Olmsted Center will be linked by more than a walkway. The new clinic will be named for the late second husband of Dr. Elizabeth Pierce Olmsted, who was president of Cornell Aeronautical Laboratories, which became Calspan Corp. Ross died in 1991.

e-mail: slinstedt@buffnews.com

59 story hotel in Niagara Falls Ontario...

was there saturday, lots of people....The US side is very American, while the Canadian side is very International, maybe thats the problem?

I dont know...anyways, back to Buffalo

good news here...

"As backhoes and bulldozers rumble across the site of Erie Canal Harbor, they offer the first visible signs the long-delayed waterfront project is under way.
The downtown site marks the western end of the Erie Canal, which launched Buffalo's rise to prominence in the 19th century. Completed in 1825, it linked Buffalo with Albany, creating a waterway between the Great Lakes and New York City, and dramatically transforming U.S. commerce, industry and immigration."


http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050920/1043505.asp

As much as I need a new job, badly...I enjoy working in the HSBC building, being able to watch all of this unfold....my view is looking south, directly at this site, the arena, the proposed bass pro, and the proposed casino...

more on the proposed casino site from the bnews...

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050920/1061130.asp


this part scares me a little...

"The Senecas also have had preliminary talks with the city about buying the so-called Cobblestone parking lots across South Park Avenue from the DL&W building. Owned by the Buffalo Urban Renewal Agency, the surface lots could readily hold large-capacity parking ramps, with overhead connections to the DL&W building. "

I'd hate to see those cobblestone streets be wasted by those parking lots becoming permanent fixtures (i mean, I understand the need for parking, but why not one humongous ramp using part of that space)...too much potential there...

And bad news....

Ya Ya Brewhouse is closing in the theater district. :cheers: :drunk:

Its the third restaurant to close in that location. I think its the layout- it is long and narrow and looks empty most of the time even when there are a bunch of people there. It just lacked atmosphere. That being said, the city (the landlord) needs to cut the space in half. Put offices or a gallery in the rear on Washington, and make the space fronting Main a small restaurant, deli, or bar.

:dunno:

yeah, i was just getting to that one too...

its too bad, i agree its the size...

and hopefully, something will be able to stick there when/if main st. opens to traffic...i think that will naturally extend the chippewa street down to main and washington...

I'd hate to see those cobblestone streets be wasted by those parking lots becoming permanent fixtures (i mean, I understand the need for parking, but why not one humongous ramp using part of that space)...too much potential there...

I also don't like the idea of the senecas owning these proposed ramps/the empty lots...

i think it greatly detracts from some of the positive of the dl&w site...namely expansion of the cobbleston district by tax-paying entities...

The Mayor was on the radio discussing both Bass Pro and the Casino this morning. He seems confident that both will become a reality and said that the Bass Pro negotiations were progressing nicely. He said that both the Sabres and Bass Pro would like to have the Casino in their midst. There is talk of also linking the Casino to the HSBC Arena either directly or through the parking structure.

Ya Ya Brewhouse - Good News. Good Riddance lousy food and even worse service.

I also don't like the idea of the senecas owning these proposed ramps/the empty lots...

i think it greatly detracts from some of the positive of the dl&w site...namely expansion of the cobbleston district by tax-paying entities...

I also agree- at the least, they should leave the first 125' of the block next to Benlin available for residential or commercial use. Imagine looking out your loft at Benlin and seeing concrete and cars peering back at you. Depressing.

I am all for Ramps over lots, it they have to build a ramp...it needs to look damn nice and if they need to build a ramp...building it right on an empty lot with full potential as a great living or business space is NOT a good idea. they gotta be very careful not to give the Senecas that they might regret later on.

Just thought you Buffalonians might like to know, Buffalo has again appeared on the City vs. City thread. I'ts going up agains Columbus OH. Buffalo has 100% of the vote as of right now, only because I am the only one who has voted lol, but still. Go defend your city's honor!

So what do you guys think of the canal renovations project? Do you think it will be succesful with tourism as speculated or just fail miserably?

Just thought you Buffalonians might like to know, Buffalo has again appeared on the City vs. City thread. I'ts going up agains Columbus OH. Buffalo has 100% of the vote as of right now, only because I am the only one who has voted lol, but still. Go defend your city's honor!

I am so sick of these friggin' polls lol

Lakefront project taking shape
James Fink
Business First

The proposed $350 million Buffalo Lakefront Development project - one that will transform portions of the city's waterfront into a vibrant new community - has passed a key milestone. Representatives from both the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority and the development team confirmed Wednesday that a memorandum of interest, a key step in the pre-construction process, has been completed with Buffalo Lakefront Development LLC. A formal signing of the MOI is expected to take place next week following the NFTA's Sept. 26 board of commissioners meeting.

"I'm really happy where we are right now," said Luiz Kahl, NFTA chairman.

But, before the first bit of dirt is turned on the project, many hurdles remain including signing a more detailed development pact between both parties, environmental reviews and securing another $10 million in state funding to ensure better access to the 120-acre parcel that runs along Fuhrmann Boulevard.

The Buffalo Lakefront team was selected by the NFTA this past January to develop the Outer Harbor property. Their multi-phased plan includes 360 public boat slips along the Seaway Piers, the development of more than 1,000 residential units and an array of projects including an indoor sports fieldhouse, concert amphitheater and possibly, a 300,000-square-foot convention and conference center.

The Buffalo Lakefront Development team includes nine members ranging from Uniland Development Co. to Opus East LLC to VOA Associates of Chicago.

Buffalo Lakefront Development officials said, pending receiving certain clearances from the state, work on the 360-slip, $6 million Seaway Piers marina could start as earlier as next year.

By the end of next year, a greenbelt walkway that would circle the property and insure public access should be completed.

Under the terms of its contract with the NFTA, development of the 80-acre portion of the property's north end - basically the residential component - must be completed by the end of 2015.

Some of the south end, bigger ticket projects are expected to be completed by then.

This is very much market driven," said David Gregory, NFTA general counsel. "No one expects Buffalo Lakefront to build empty buildings."

Carl Montante Jr., Uniland vice president, said his development team is expecting to invest between $30 million and $40 million before they sell the first condo or townhouse unit or land the first restaurant or retailer.

The entire project will be privately funded, save for the $32 million needed for the first phase of the long-discussed Southtowns Connector project that will provide easier access to the property off Fuhrmann Boulevard. Thus far, $22 million has been secured and lobbying efforts are underway to garner the final $10 million.

Without the improved access, the project is dead, Buffalo Lakefront officials warned.

"The public is calling for public access to our property, but the public has to be able to get there," said Carl Montante Sr., Uniland president.

Development of the north end property will generate about $3.2 million in revenues for the NFTA and between $7 million and $15 million in new tax dollars for both Buffalo and Erie County, officials said.

"We can help them and they can help us," Kahl said.

sure would be nice to see something happen out there...the most valuable undeveloped waterfront of any city in the US. lol *no for real, it is.

City vs. City...Buffalo vs. Columbus (haha) yea, I think there are some Buffalo bashers out there who won't show face here...let's find em'.

^^ I think Rochester is probably second in that dissapointing rank. There is Ontario Beach park, and Beach avenue. That's it.

yea but the Roch gets a pass because the city is not really built as a port city on a lake...its a mill city on a river.

Yeah, I guess that's true.

I hear there are schedule cuts for the Fast Ferry because of fuel costs?

yup, the just cut weekly trips in half. Most had expected that the CAT would start to lessen their number of trips because of the weather anyways, but I'm sure fuel has plenty to do with it too. We'll see what happens next spring, if they add more trips or not.

Found this little Bass Pro tid pit.

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5245/bassprobuff6fj.png

^ i saw that posted on the Bass Pro website...where is the Aud in all that that? are they gonna take the front off the building off and put a glass front on or something like that?

I also saw a better rendering of the building they are building on the old Gas Works site...it looks like they incorporated that facade better than the original rendering showed (about 1 or 2 months ago). Although it still doesn't look that good, borderline insulting.

^ i saw that posted on the Bass Pro website...where is the Aud in all that that? are they gonna take the front off the building off and put a glass front on or something like that?

I'd tend to believe that the Bass Pro picture is a cross section but who knows? Since this is their first urban style store, maybe they'll suprise us all and push the envelope by breaking away from their typical log cabin style exterior.

I think we will all be very suprised.

I really think its about time they get moving on the whole project NOW.

How many jobs will Bass pro bring to Buffalo?

Found this view of the progress at the Blue Cross Building.

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/537/bliuecross9yp.png

The big green patch at the Waterfront Village (stupid name) is where Paladino is suposedly building a gagillion condos. How long do you think it will take him.

well, if HealthNow employees demand them, (laugh) then it might happen within the next 25 years.

Perhaps Carl is not stupid, but rather did not run into the market in a city which up till now has been on the down for years. He might become very active once a few of our BIG projects get done and things start going our way.

you know hat would fuckin rock...trolley cars in the city...like hundreds of them.

...I almost forgot they were planning to build a new bridge. I wonder if it will ever happen. This is from todays Buffalo News.

Bridge panel urges jury to pick new cable-stayed design
By PATRICK LAKAMP
News Staff Reporter
9/28/2005

The New Millennium Group - which has championed a new signature Peace Bridge since 1999 - called on a design jury Tuesday to select a contemporary cable-stayed design.

And the group unveiled a concept it likes.

Swiss bridge designer Christian Menn now suggests a curved deck for a three-tower cable-stayed concept he proposed last year. The rendering shows a curve toward Lake Erie.

"We're not married to this particular concept," said Patrick McNichol, chairman of New Millennium Group's transportation action group. "This is one of many magnificent possibilities. Right now, it's the best we've seen."

The group's renewed push for a cable-stayed bridge comes as the design jury prepares to begin deliberating next week. The jury will first deliberate on whether to recommend a companion span or a replacement bridge. Then the jury will discuss what kind of bridge to recommend: a suspension, cable-stayed, steel arch or concrete, segmental span.

The current environmental study to decide what type of bridge to build started in spring 2000 following a ruling by State Supreme Court Justice Eugene M. Fahey in April that the authority's previous environmental study for a new bridge was flawed.

Robert G. Shibley, appointed by Mayor Anthony M. Masiello as the design jury's co-chairman, said the jury's first meeting earlier this month went well.

"We have made no decisions yet," Shibley said.

Shibley said he and co-chairman Ted Ogilvie of Canada "are working with a robust and well-informed binational team. The team has substantial technical capacity and has a strong grounding in our respective communities."

Menn is no longer under contract with the Peace Bridge Authority, although the design jury, if it chooses, could ask him to refine his concepts.

The Menn concept unveiled Tuesday could be built as a companion or replacement bridge with five or six lanes.

"The curved alignment requires three towers as . . . an alternative for the straight bridge," Menn said Tuesday in an e-mail to The News.

Such a bridge would be the longest curved cable-stayed bridge in the world, McNichol said. The estimated cost is $110 million, making it "within the authority's budget," he said.

Ron Rienas, the authority's general manager, said he doesn't know if that estimate is accurate or not.

"I don't know what that number includes," he said.

The authority listed the estimated construction cost of Menn's initial three-tower design - without the curved deck - at $110 million to $120 million.

All of Menn's concepts are being considered by the design jury, Rienas said.

"I'm not sure how helpful it is to come out at this stage of the process and take a position on a bridge," Rienas said.

But Shibley said he and Ogilvie welcome comments.

"We are glad to have the input," said Shibley, director of the Urban Design Project at the University at Buffalo's School of Architecture and Planning. "The concepts we are reviewing include opportunities for discussion on the merits of the Christian Menn proposal."

Earlier this month, the design jury received a technical briefing from consultants, Shibley said.

While the jury will not allow the public to attend its deliberations, transcripts of its working sessions will be available, he said.

e-mail: plakamp@buffnews.com

http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/2772/picture0084qq.jpg

Young find space in digs downtown

9/28/2005
By DONN ESMONDE

It took a young guy to understand. It took a young guy to know that they were out there, single folks and kid-less couples in their 20s, fresh out of college and not ready for the suburban house and lawn. He knew they were there, he knew it so well he went all-in, staked all he had. And he was right.
Because Eran Epstein was right, a downtown that goes to sleep early got a new shot of life. Because he was right, there is finally a youth encampment in the city's housing frontier. Because he was right, the folks downtown needs most - young singles and couples who come out after dark - now can afford to live there. Because he was right, others will follow.

Epstein is 30, big, friendly and equal parts smarts, ambition and energy. He came from Brooklyn to the University at Buffalo and discovered our secret: good, cheap real estate.

He progressed from buying doubles in University Heights to an apartment complex on Delaware Avenue - at the price of a four-bedroom ranch in Westchester County - to, now, the downtown frontier. Epstein's $8 million venture turned the nearly-vacant, 10-story Holling Press building at 501 Washington St. into 82 twenty-
something-friendly apartments. Located a block from the Hyatt Regency Buffalo, it officially opened Tuesday and already is half full.

"Every deal I ever made, if it failed, it would've been the end of me," said Epstein. "With a wife and two kids, I can't let that happen. That's how sure I was that this would work."

Of course it would work. Countless other downtowns are home to the young and restless. We are no different, only late. There is a legion of iPod owners all dressed up, but with no downtown place to go - until now.

It matters because downtown's vacant buildings are a decades-long embarrassment for all of us. It matters because downtown still is a ghost town when the workday ends or the weekend comes. It matters because it opens downtown to folks who can best revive it: People in their 20s who haunt clubs and bars and restaurants, who bring life to a too-dead zone.

Other downtown apartments are high-end nests for white-collar boomers and retirees. They can handle the $900-and-up monthly tab. Missing from the landscape were cheaper places for younger folks - the juice for downtown's fruit, the transfusion for its ills.

Epstein filled that piece. His apartments rent for less than $650. He opened the downtown door to kids fresh out of college and couples taking the first steps: bank tellers, customer service reps, student/waitresses. They are what downtown most needs, and now has - at least in token numbers. When this place fills up, Epstein will do a sequel in the vacant building across the street.

Carrie Jacobson - 28, single and just out of UB - has a one-bedroom apartment in Holling Place.

"The Niagara Mohawk building is my night light," she said. "It's right outside my bedroom window."

She grew up in Williamsville and says she likes downtown because "there's a lot more to do down here. There's a real movement of younger people who want the city to thrive. This is part of it, and I want to be part of it."

Others like her include Sarah Gray-
Gallagher - 25, from New York City and owner of the art gallery Sixworks. Her husband, Valiant, is a teaching intern and club disc jockey.

"The other (downtown) apartments we looked at," he said, "had borderline Manhattan prices. We can afford this."

"We can walk to the movies, to great restaurants," his wife said. "Chippewa is right around the corner." :cheers:

That is what is happening. What was dead was brought to life.

Eran Epstein built it, and they are coming. It is good for him. It is good for them. It is good for anybody who cares about this city.

awsome article...


think about it, people who are young, educated and ambicious are the most powerful force in the economy, and to have them living downtown is not only a sign (IMO) but and honor.

I still ponder the thought of moving myself and my girlfriend downtown and out of Batavia (Dutch for: Old Indian shitting spot) Buffalo has lots to offer, and to get there and enjoy it is worth some headaches.

maybe I'll begin looking for a job downtown and go that way soon.

Buffalo just has it all.

I was just about to post that Housing article, dammit! :)

As for the cable-stay bridge, I fell in love with that design the first second I saw it for the Peace Bridge (I used to think they were ugly until I opened my eyes). I want it! I want it! I want it! If this jury selects an identical companion span, I think they should all be drug out into the street and shot, but that's just my opinion.

Unfortunately its taken this long for a developer to capitalize on the young renter downtown with a product they can afford. Mark Goldman was preaching that a downtown comeback could be built on targeting the younger crowd. His point was they were willing to locate in new neighborhoods in order to be close to nightlife. They aren't afraid of downtown like their parents maybe are- they've been partying down there since they were legal (or not!). Thats why I'm hoping the new wave of condos will have affordable units- if they're under $150k, they should do really well IMO.

considering Buffalo still has yet to keep from it's brain drain, I would focus on keeping people in the city and metro before trying to convince the few who stay to move downtown. It only makes sense right?

the only way to counter the brain drain is to create and retain jobs, and job that are challenging and worth something to the community. There are many issues the city can focus on, it has to look at things more business friendly, otherwise all this construction will be in vain.

time to look at things the hard way, time to get things moving on the economic front...like fast.

Making Deals By Terminal


Posted by: Lynne Dixon, Reporter
Created: 9/28/2005 5:25:10 PM
Updated: 9/28/2005 5:41:01 PM


The Seneca Nation of Indians is working to make deals to buy up property near the old DL&W terminal, what some sources say is the frontrunner for a new casino downtown.

Several business and property owners in the old industrial first ward neighborhood say they've been approached by a broker representing the Senecas, making offers to purchase the property. "They wanted to know if I was interested in selling," said Ross J. Strawbrich, owner of Buffalo Motor & Generator. "I asked them to come up with a figure and it was very low."

"And I asked the guy, is this gonna be a done deal over there? He kind of shrugged his shoulders and said, yeah," added Rick Pyszczek of the Malamute Tavern.

"He said it's fast track. They're ready to make offers today," added Walter Peters Of Jentsch Welding Company.

Other business owners confirm they have contracts in hand from the broker, but have not yet signed any deals. One property owner says he even faxed over a counter-offer today, but has not heard back.

Asked what the plans would be for the property, developer Carl Paladino, who owns a big chunk of land in the area in question, and is a big casino proponent, said "I don't think they're looking for volumes of property. They're looking for sufficient amounts of property to house a casino and necessary parking they'd require to go with it." "They've represented to us that their interests are to operate a stand alone casino. They're not interested in building hotels, restaurants and competing as they do in Niagara Falls."

Meanwhile, casino opponents, and those expressing concern, spoke out at Buffalo Common Council chambers today, outlining data that shows gambling addicitons rise when there is a casino in the area. In fact, said Buffalo resident Joel Rose, seven percent of all visitors to casinos are addicted to gambling. "That 7% generates 30 to 50 percent of revenue for the casinos," he said.

Buffalo School Board Member and Buffalo businessman Chris Jacobs was also on hand at council chambers. He expressed concern over how casino gaming in Buffalo could ultimately impact families and children. Jacobs also had another concern. He is an investor in property directly across the street from the DL&W Terminal. Plans, he says, are for multi-use development: commercial, retail and residential. He's concerned about the negative impact that he believes a casino would have on such a development.

Did everyone fall asleep???

Next Planning Board agenda has a few new projects and some previously announced finally coming up for review:

*Three- 2500 sq.ft. Townhomes at 60 Brantford (near Elmwood and Forest)

*Epstein's senior apartment renovation project at 937 Broadway

*Plaza Groups renovation of 653 Main into retail and four apartments (they've been gutting this building for about a year now it seems!)

*Paladino again seeking to rezone the corner of Swan and Division from residential to commercial (residents of the infill homes previously fought him on this)

*One Ship Canal- Cobey Inc. seeking approval for a 90,000 mfg. facility (outer harbor/Union Ship Canal)

I drive by this every afternoon. Fix the damn place!

From the Buffalo News:
City takes Genrich to court (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20051003/1057801.asp)

After waiting more than two decades for the owner of a gutted and braced building at the corner of Genesee and Oak streets in downtown Buffalo to begin reconstruction, the city has turned to the courts for resolution.
Willard A. Genrich, owner of a string of historic buildings along Genesee Street, is facing five building code violations in a Housing Court trial, which began recently. The list of violations at the gutted corner building, located at 109-123 Genesee St., includes an absence of ceilings and floors and a lack of wiring and plumbing. Genrich was also cited for leaving the building vacant and not maintained and failing to file a letter of intent with the city Building Inspections office either to rehabilitate or demolish the structure.

After hearing testimony from two witnesses, City Housing Court Judge Henry J. Nowak reserved decision and gave the parties until Nov. 15 to submitted additional documents.

Genrich, who earlier this year proposed demolishing the corner structures to create parking for a restaurant/office project he's developing at 99-101 Genesee St., said he is working with a potential buyer who would bring the circa-1880s brick shell back to life.

"We've found a potential buyer and have it under contract to be sold," Genrich said. "He has a specific use in mind that would be very positive for the site and the neighborhood."

While Genrich won't reveal the identity of the potential buyer, sources said it is an Akron business owner who would develop a boutique hotel. The would-be developer's purchase contract, which also includes a small parking lot Genrich owns across the street, expires at the end of November.

"We had asked the city to hold off on the court proceeding until the buyer completes his due diligence. There is a clause in the sale contract that would jeopardize the deal if we are hit with penalties at this time," Genrich said.

If found guilty, Genrich's corporation, Platinumdome, faces fines, and he could be sentenced to jail time.

While Nowak's reserved decision gives Genrich time to complete the deal, Mayor Anthony M. Masiello, who threatened Genrich with eminent-domain proceedings in 2004, said he has run out of patience. "For nearly a quarter of a decade, he's had an opportunity to do something with those properties and hasn't moved off the dime. I'd love to see someone else get in there and do something with those great buildings, but I'll believe it when I see it," Masiello said.

While he goes toe to toe with the city over his corner property, Genrich is making progress converting an adjacent property to a restaurant and office complex. Work crews are installing plumbing and electrical service at 99-101 Genesee St. under a new timetable that targets a spring 2006 opening.

"We're trying to get as much done as possible before the snow flies, then use the winter to get the interior work completed, with a final sprint to an April opening. We're about a year behind where we wanted to be, but it's happening," he said.

Genrich has been working on the 117-year-old building, which housed Werner's Photographic Gallery, since 2004. A major effort has been the replacement of the jatrium window, which spans the building's third and fourth floors, overlooking Genesee.

While Genrich won't reveal the identity of the potential buyer, sources said it is an Akron business owner who would develop a boutique hotel. The would-be developer's purchase contract, which also includes a small parking lot Genrich owns across the street, expires at the end of November.


This is the most exciting development in that story- getting it out of Genrich's hands! I hope this pans out. The Mansion has been successful- is there room for another boutique hotel? Croce was planning one at 204 Franklin as well.

Senecas reveal city casino site
James Fink
Business First

The long-rumored and oft-discussed downtown Buffalo casino finally has a home, or at least one home site.

The Seneca Nation of Indians, Tuesday afternoon, confirmed acquisition of a nine-acre, two-city block group of properties that is slated to be home for a 100,000-square-foot casino.

The property, which the Seneca Nation closed on late Monday afternoon, is bounded by Michigan Avenue on the east, Marvin Street on the west, Perry Street on the north and South Park Avenue on the south. The land sits in the heart of the city's Cobblestone District, just a few blocks from HSBC Arena.

It is considered a big piece of an economic development puzzle in the Cobblestone District that includes the arena, the proposed Bass Pro store, the re-development of the inner harbor along with a host of residential and private-sector projects.

"If there is going to be casino in Buffalo, this is the right place to build it," said Richard Geiger, Buffalo Niagara Convention & Visitors Bureau president. "It really starts to give us some critical mass down there."

Whether the casino actually is built there or at another site such as the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority-owned DL&W Terminal, will be determined within the next few weeks, said Barry Snyder Sr., Seneca Nation president.

The casino's final location will be determined by on-going talks with the NFTA as well as a final court appeal by the Town of Cheektowaga, which is still attempting to lure the gaming venue to a Holtz Road site. That case will be heard by the New York State Court of Appeals on Oct. 19, the last step remaining from a 2004 lawsuit that forced the Seneca Nation to only consider Buffalo for its Erie County site and not a suburban location.

Also looming in the background are possible lawsuits from anti-casino groups who want an environmental impact statement performed, a process that could delay the project by more than one year.

For now, the Seneca Nation will be moving the casino site on a development fast track. The nation, according to a 2002 compact it signed with New York State, must have the site identified and under development by Dec. 9. The compact cleared the way for casinos to be constructed in Niagara Falls, Salamanca and Buffalo.

"We can no longer afford to wait," Snyder said. "Our goal is to create a dynamic environment and breath new life into downtown Buffalo."

The casino site is being hailed in most quarters as the best possible location for a downtown gaming venue. Other sites that were under consideration included the Statler Towers and Buffalo's Outer Harbor property. "To me, this is about economic development and a job-creation initiative," said Buffalo Mayor Anthony Masiello.

The casino is expected to employ 1,000 people and have an annual payroll of more than $50 million.

In its first year of operation, the casino will likely create between $25 million and $30 million in new revenues for the state, with between $5 million and $7 million of that making its way back to Buffalo and Erie County.

"This is absolutely the right thing for Buffalo," Masiello said. "It is not the be-all or the end-all, but its part of a niche economy we are building in the Cobblestone District."

about the land they've been buying...they said they bought it as a fall back incase the D&L thing doesn't work out. I'm actually rooting against the D&L site because it would be nice to demolish some of those awfully boarded up rundown buildings and have the casino there. But then again, if the D&L site becomes the casino, then those lots they've been buying will hopefully become a nice hotel, preferably decent height like the one in NFNY.

about the land they've been buying...they said they bought it as a fall back incase the D&L thing doesn't work out. I'm actually rooting against the D&L site because it would be nice to demolish some of those awfully boarded up rundown buildings and have the casino there. But then again, if the D&L site becomes the casino, then those lots they've been buying will hopefully become a nice hotel, preferably decent height like the one in NFNY.

Save those boarded up so-called rundown buildings for reuse. Cobblestone has so much potential and its because of those old warehouse you want to tear down. If D&L doesn't work out- the alternative site sucks. It might as well be at the Central Terminal. Its four huge blocks from Bass Pro and Erie Canal Harbor. No one is going to walk between the two. :bash:

Save those boarded up so-called rundown buildings for reuse. Cobblestone has so much potential and its because of those old warehouse you want to tear down. If D&L doesn't work out- the alternative site sucks. It might as well be at the Central Terminal. Its four huge blocks from Bass Pro and Erie Canal Harbor. No one is going to walk between the two. :bash:


Ha Ha Ha you silly little california boy. You, more than anyone should realize that Americans don't walk to or from casinos.

Buffalo State College is currently in design stages for a new 200 unit (approx 7 floors) student apartment Dorm. It will cost about $11M and will be located on the R parking lot which is located in the North West part of the Campus on Elmwood Ave. This is at the west end of a long string of Dorms along the Skajaquata Epwy. They expect it to open fall of 2007.

they could always take the Metro Rail...for one stop! lol

From Business First

Report says alleged slumlord caught in San Francisco

A California man considered to be a top slumlord in Buffalo has been arrested in suburban San Francisco, according to the San Francisco Examiner newspaper.



Yipeeeeeeeeee!!!!!

^ First name Albany, Last name New York? :)

I've decided I don't like the Casino. I think it will be a failure anyway when you can always take 20-30 more minutes out of your time to go to Niagara Falls, and the idea of it being in a historical corridor right inside downtown makes me cringe. Also don't forget ghetto is only a few blocks away. I hope people start filing lawsuits.

All the masiello does is ramble on about new jobs and money this will give the city. The truth is the city will only get a tiny portion of the casino's benifits, the rest goes to the Seneca nation.

Well if those folks can get together and find some way to require an environmental impact statement (which they should), that will delay this far longer than would be necessary. I say they should, because EISs don't study just impacts to the natural environment, but also impacts to the human (social & cultural) environment. It's not necessarily always a "tree-hugger's" last resort as it is commonly perceived.

And for that reason, I don't know why it was apparently never required in the first place. You don't try pulling something off like this without first trying to qualify and quantify the impacts that it's going to have, as opposed to these willy nilly claims that seem to be bouncing around like New York Islanders off the boards tonight.

Go Sabres!

I think the Senecas only need to have a casino site located and 'underway' by the end of the year to meet their requirements. Does a lawsuit suspend the clock? I'm not sure. They could argue that they were in the process of opening a casino by the deadline but couldn't because of an injunction.

Face it- any lawyer worth his salt could help prepare a mitigated negative dec for the casino. Name an impact and it can be mitigated.

This isn't swamp land with endangered species issues. This is an urban location, with the best highway access in Erie County. And, the building is not a landmark, it may be historical, but its not significant- at least not anymore. I'm anti-casino, but if there's going to be one, the City needs the best deal possible, in the best location, with some spin-off. AND, they need a plan to spend the proceeds wisely and not piss it away.

Casino in Niagara Falls...Falls, Casino, ummm State park.

Casino in Buffalo...HSBC Arena, Chippewa, Bass Pro, numerous restaurants, boat docking, metrorail.

Buffalo has provided more reasons to the Senecas to build than the city of NF did a few years back. Buffalo has many things that can spur from this, I'm glad they are building where they are...I want to see more lake based boating action involved with this and Bass Pro...make Buffalo a port city again.

Face it, Niagara falls is known world wide. Buffalo is nice, better then Niagara Falls IMO, but its not what I view as a place to gamble. Besides, I am anti-gambling anyway. There are even residents who hate the city they live in because they are ignorant of all the things you can do in Buffalo. Even if this casino is sucessful, I've heard that 15/16 of the profits go to the Seneca's. Also I don't see how a casino will bring water traffic to Buffalo. I do agree that Bass Pro would however. Also crime rates will skyrocket. Don't forget it's not far away from some of the less people friendly neighborhoods. And with a police force with rag tag funding, it won't help the situation at all.

The only good thing comming out of this would be the amount of jobs it will provide.

Regarding your statement, Proud Buffalonian, "The only good thing comming out of this would be the amount of jobs it will provide."

You say that like the jobs the casino will provide is a small thing. Thousands of people working, who are currently recieving welfare, is a huge thing. And here's an idea for those people who are "anti gambling." Don't freaking gamble! I am so tired of people feeling they have the right to limit my freedoms because they are "anti" whatever. If you don't drink or don't smoke, or don't gamble, then just be happy for yourself and keep your moral judgements to yourself for crying out loud. Damn, I bet you're fun at parties.

And insisting that the casino would just create crime is ridiculous. That theory would apply to any acitivity or signs of life downtown. It is a statistical probability that if there are more people downtown, then there is going to more crime. More people means more pockets to pick, more wallets and purses to snatch, more SUV's to car jack. It has nothing to do with a casino or gambling. The partying that goes down each week on Chippewa Street also has increased crime, noise, and traffic. (I know because I live around the corner.) Does that mean we should try and shut down that entertainment district? I doubt anyone would try to make that argument, and anyone who did would be a fool. Stop saying you want a vibrant city, and then complaining that there's crime. The things sometimes go hand in hand, and you have to take the bitter with the sweet, man.

That part of the city is currently dead, dead, dead. You can't do anything to kill it anymore, because there's already nothing going on. It has been like that for decades, generations. Finally, someone wants to do something to change it, and people cry about all the crime that's going to be created. Simply unbelievable! The only good thing about being reduced to nothing, is that the only way is up.

Does anyone have any photos of the West Village? Johnson Park, in particular, would be an awesome place to photgraph, as well as the most under rated, under appreciated, and under-photographed block in the city: Whitney Place between Georgia and Carolina Streets. Rabin Terrace in the West Village, Georgia Street, and that first block of Prospect would make great photo ops. I would love to see this quaint neighborhood (directly behind Hutch Tech High School) get some well deserved exposure.

Affordable space for artists on Buffalo’s Main Street
by queenseyes

Artspace Update: Artspace, the nation’s leading nonprofit real estate developer for the arts, is planning to develop a 60-unit “live/work” project at the historic Breitweiser Building at 1219 Main Street. Built in 1914 as an automobile factory, the Breitweiser is one of Buffalo’s most significant historic buildings.

Now it will live on, renovated and updated as an affordable home for artists and their families. The $15.5 million project will consist of 36 units in the five-story Breitweiser plus 24 units in six new four-plexes on vacant land immediately behind it.

Each unit will contain both residential space and sufficient additional space for a working studio. In all, the project will have six studio apart-ments, 26 units with one bedroom, 22 with two bedrooms, and six with three. Monthly rents will range from about $450 to about $895, including utilities.

Other project amenities will include high-speed internet access, off-street parking, easy access to rapid transit (the nearest subway station is only two blocks away), and 12,000 square feet of commercial space earmarked for creative and arts-friendly businesses. Construction will begin this fall, with completion expected near the end of 2006.

Artspace was established in 1979 to advocate for the space needs of artists in Minneapolis’ historic Warehouse District and effectively filled that role for a decade. By the late 1980s, however, it was clear that the problem required a more proactive approach, and Artspace made the leap from advocate to developer. Since then, the scope of Artspace's activities has grown dramatically. Artspace is now a national leader in the field of developing affordable space for artists through the adaptive reuse of old buildings, new construction, or both.

Over the last two decades, Artspace has completed 13 major “live/work” projects for artists and their families in Minnesota and eight other states, including Pennsylvania, Maryland, and Connecticut. Buffalo is the site of its first New York project. These projects have created more than 560 residential units for artists and their families.

Artspace is creating a no-obligation “interest list” for artists who would like to receive more information about this project, including application materials when they become available in late 2006. If you would like your name to be added to this list, please e-mail Wendy Thompson, Artspace Director of Asset Management, at wendythompson@artspaceusa.org. The subject line should say “Artspace Buffalo,” and the message can be as simple as “Please put me on the list.” If you don’t have email, call (612) 465-0260 and leave your name, address, and telephone number.

For more information about Artspace, visit the organization’s website at www.artspaceusa.org. For more information about the Artspace Buffalo project, visit www.artspacebuffalo.org.

Interested in the renderings and ground floor design of the project? Wed, Oct 12th, 10:30a, at Kleinhans Mary Seton Room, Senator Hillary Clinton will be in town to celebrate the Artspace Buffalo Project, along with Mayor Anthony Masiello, The City of Buffalo, and Artspace. Above Graphic: Architect’s rendering of new fourplexes and common area

Thanks Arete!

http:///img145.imageshack.us/img145/369/artspace0fy.jpg


Worth repeating

Hillary is going to be in town to preview the design.

Interested in the renderings and ground floor design of the project? Wed, Oct 12th, 10:30a, at Kleinhans Mary Seton Room, Senator Hillary Clinton will be in town to celebrate the Artspace Buffalo Project, along with Mayor Anthony Masiello, The City of Buffalo, and Artspace. Above Graphic: Architect’s rendering of new fourplexes and common area


I really like that this will be a sophisticated modern project. It shows that Buffalo is still capable of doing some quality buildings.

Even with Bass Pro next door I don't think people come to buy fishing equipment and gamble, that's not what people do from my experiences.

Also I never said the amount of jobs was a small thing. It is a big thing, and it will benifit those who need them desperatly. But when you say thousands, you really should say 1 thousand. Yes, that is a big number, but you make it sound like this will be bigger then it is. I think it will just be another version of something such as main place mall if you catch my drift.

And you cant say "dont gamble" and its fine. Gambling results in drunk drivers, increased banckruptcy, increase in murder rates, and thats only to top it off. I have to deal with that, weather I gamble or not.

The great thing about this casino location is that it will create a critical mass of activities that draw a lot of people. The chosen location is absolute geneous. Any other location in Buffalo and it becomes just a dumpy local Indian casino. (we have them here in the Chicago area and they are very very far from the Las Vegas glitz that everyone imagines.

But, this location will be magical. It will allow Buffalo's casino to excel into being a larger regional casino and will actually be able to complement the Niagara Falls casinos. With the critical mass of large scale tourist activities either present or planned for this neighborhood the casino can market itself to a larger area.

Think of it. You can have large numbers attracted to Bass Pro a Sabers game, the casino, and other smaller draws such as the Naval Park and Erie Canal Harbor. That is many thousands of people all mingleing around. If Bass Pro is done right it will draw in other new retail and restart Buffalo's retail core drawing even more people.

The way casino's are designed they do not add to street life but with the casino you can market to Cleveland and Pittsburgh for long weekend vacations and conventions. Having several linked activities alow people to justify the trip.

I might not travel 5 hours and stay in a hotel for a casino but, if I can also see a hockey game and get some gear and maybe see a show at Shea's it starts to sound like a nice get-a-way.

The mayor is also proposing using a dedicated portion of the casino money as a funding source for cultural institutions such as the BPO and Albright Knox. Now that is smart (one of the rare great ideas from that guy) You cover the low brow desires with the casino but also strengthen the highly important cuultural institutions that you need to attract and retain the educated proffessionals that create new businesses.

The casino will produce some negative side effects, of course. But the overall good will outweigh the bad, IMO. True, Proud Buffalonian, there may be more drunk drivers and murders, but as I said before, most urban expansion (in the U.S.) produces this. I used the Chippewa entertainment district as an example. Most people are please with what's going on there, but do you think that there are not more drunk drivers as a result? And more crime? How much has that impacted your life? When you say that you're going to have to deal with the problems of the casino, why don't you compare it to other places that have probably really not affected you that much, if at all. Here's an idea, why don't we just all abandon the city and dismantle it all together. Then there wouldn't be any murders or drunk drivers. And as far as an increase in bankruptcies, I can't even talk about that. If someone else doesn't know when to stop gambling, and they have to file bankruptcy, I don't see that as my responsibility. My problem? Maybe to some indirect degree...but that may be why there has been new legislation to make it harder for people to file for bankruptcy. So the rest of us people with values, morals, and self control won't have to shoulder the burden of those "other people." Buffalo and Erie County stand to gain a lot financially, as do their residents. I think that will offset any financial burden you might experience as a result of people not being able to control their gaming activities.

THe Sqeaky Wheel ( a media art center) is opening a new and enlarged gallery in the Ansonia building on the 700 block of Main Street. The gallery will be twice as larges as their old Elemwood and North location.


The 700 block is seeing some major transformation. The buildings accross the street are being renovated (I think), The Sidway apartments where recently completed and there are two major projects planned for thedevastated north west end of the block. Squeaky wheel will add a lot of life to the street. It will be great to see this block reborn.

This area of Downtown now has several major art desinations. Along with Squeaky wheel is Cepa Gallery in the market Arcade, and Hallwalls in the Riteous Babe Records building. Add these to the 8 or 9 theaters in the same area and Chippawa's huge nightlife draw and you almost have the makings of a real urban hood. Now we just need a few more people living in the area.

^^ please stop the dramatics. If Buffalo wasn't still in dire straits, we wouldn't even think of having a casino being located in this great city that has befallen hard times. As for myself, being a Canadian from the Niagara Region and going to school in Buffalo I can tell you that the benefits versus detriment to Niagara Falls, Ontario is a very slim margin. yes we have fancy, glitzy overpriced hotels, and beautiful landscaped parkways along the river, but I have heard countless stories of the horrific results of casino gambling. From people that are not incontinent wearing Depends-type adult diapers so that they can stay at a slot machine for hours on end, to people abandoning their kids in the car to go gamble on a sweltering summer day(locals, torontonians AND tourists from the states alike), people wasting their savings and families savings and families torn apart as a result, to my friend's own mother who fraudulently bilked a children's medical program to support for her and her husband's gambling habit, to a person who jumped out of the Brock Plaza right across from the duty free where I work in the summers, to the sickingly increasing number of bodies found in the niagara river (they cover up these statistics), to even my own pediatrician who when was being taxed to death due to a wrongly justified audit (which he thought tarnished his name and repuation even though he was one of the best doctors around) and to come up with money gambled his life savings of more than a half million dollars at Casino Niagara, then ended up committing suicide by walking into Lake Ontario and drowning. These things happen more than people think, or better yet, WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE.

I don't know if 1000 jobs is so great, when even more lives will end up in debt or in worse conditions due to a casino especially an already impoverished city like Buffalo. I've been to casinos before, but only bring with me a small amount of money and have my "fun" (if you can call it that) with friends and leave. But to people with addictive personalities, casino gambling is like crack, far worse than the negative impacts of the Chippewa district.

some proceeds do go back to the communities and charities and are helpful, but at the same time the Ontario government has had to employ people in jobs to help the gambling addicts recover, and the amount of people with a problem that don't seek help is astonishing.

For all the atrocities committed against Native Americans (raping, pillaging, given infectious diseases to eradicate them, forcing them on reserves with little job prospects (but giving them the right to sell cheap gas and cigs), trying to christianize and de-heathenize them since they were seen as "savages") letting them set up a casino is the least we can do. But why does it have to be in Buffalo? once one of America's greatest cities, that is starting to slowly but surely recover especially since casino gambling is already located just 20 some odd minutes down the thruway in the tourist towns of NF NY and ON.
once market saturation hits, are there going to be ANY discernable benefits of a casino?

Good points and a casino alone should not be seen as the way to reinvigorate a community. but there are at least 2 flaws in your argument. Buffalo is already sending gamblers to the Niagara falls casinos so currently it only looses. It gets nothing back form thoses 3 casinos. I think it would have been best if this second casino was in Niagara Falls NY with revenue shared with the entire metro area. That would have created a stronger critical mass of 4 casinos within a very close proximity making the area much more of a gambleing destination. The shared revenue would mitigate the negatives that Buffalo already gets from the existing casinos.

The second flaw is that people have addictive personalities of all types. We would have to shut down society to make it safe for these people. People are addicted to alchohol, shopping, stealling, cigarets, sex, you name it. Should we not have restaurants because people over eat? I just saw on TV how families have been devestated because a a memeber could not stop stealing. Should we eliminate all stores so that these people are not tempeted to steal? No of course not. We need to deal with the source of the problem which is a mental and personality disorder.

THe Sqeaky Wheel ( a media art center) is opening a new and enlarged gallery in the Ansonia building on the 700 block of Main Street. The gallery will be twice as larges as their old Elemwood and North location.


The 700 block is seeing some major transformation. The buildings accross the street are being renovated (I think), The Sidway apartments where recently completed and there are two major projects planned for thedevastated north west end of the block. Squeaky wheel will add a lot of life to the street. It will be great to see this block reborn.

This area of Downtown now has several major art desinations. Along with Squeaky wheel is Cepa Gallery in the market Arcade, and Hallwalls in the Riteous Babe Records building. Add these to the 8 or 9 theaters in the same area and Chippawa's huge nightlife draw and you almost have the makings of a real urban hood. Now we just need a few more people living in the area.

After the two residential projects go in on the west side of the block, there will only be two 'holes' left. One is the building that the operator of the Tralf bought a while ago. He was going to renovate it for residences and a performing space (743-47 Main):

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5598/743main2hh.jpg

Then there's the NE corner of Main/Tupper:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/818/743main0017jw.jpg

Avalon proposed this, a mixed use complex, but has since dropped the plan:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3879/maintupper1aw.jpg

Downtown Graphics used to be in the corner building but has since relocated to Larkin. I wonder if there is a redevelopment plan in the works. If not, it sure is one of the best locations for a 20 story condo tower !

I thought those one story buildings were being renovated

I thought those one story buildings were being renovated

Not the corner ones, but adjacent to them (and next to Stokes Seeds):

http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/7879/picture0075ni.jpg

The buildings at the corner I believe are owned by Main/Seneca who used to own Theater Place.

NYC, I've been meaning to get over to the west village for a shoot, but I only seem to get over to the city at night most of the time...perhaps a nice day this fall will allow it to happen.

very nice old houses there, and it's kinda secluded as well.

Thanks, Buff. If you were able to get some of those shots in the West Village, I'd be in your debt.

WIGS, for someone who started out his post with "Stop the dramatics," you sure wrote a few pretty dramatic paragraphs yourself. I don't think I've seen the words "rape" and "savages" in any threads lately. I agree with you that there are a lot of sad stories related to casino gambling, but I disagree with a lot of what you posted. I don't think that the city's financially hard times are the only driving factor behind the casino proposition. Even if the city was bustling with economic development, I think they'd still want the casino. Niagara Falls, Ontario isn't struggling, yet they're still expanding their casino mecca. If people, including your own friends, family, and pediatrician cannot control themselves around a poker table, that's a shame--but not my problem.

Gee, did that sound insensitive?

All I'm saying is that we should be careful when we ask the government to come in and protect us from ourselves by imposing laws to ban things. Millions of people die each year from heart disease. So maybe we should get the government to restrict our access to twinkies and McDonalds. That would save lives and money spent on public medical programs like Medicaid. Then we could always outlaw alcohol, and of course cigarettes. Those things have been killing people for centuries. While you're at it, maybe we could get the State to come in and ban swearing and harsh language, because it makes people feel bad and causes stress. We all know that stress causes health problems. My point in all this is, where does it end? Why should the people who are able to gamble responsibly, and enjoy doing so, be deprived of the oppertunity just because some other people can't control themselves? There is an issue of civil liberties here. Just for the record, I don't like casino gambling either, but I also don't like more laws that tell me what I can, or more to the point, what I CAN'T do. I also don't smoke, but I hate that F'ing smoking ban.

NYC you should watch what you say, I have a family member who died on chippewa strip a few years back, and more then one story of the same thing happening to some of my friend's friends. (or at least getting severley injured) I'm offended that you would say it doesn't really effect my life.

But on a different note, you are partly right in your comparisons, but there are differences. Firstly I think we have all the crime we can handle at the moment. Secondly Chippewa doesn't have any other groups to deal with such as the conflicts arising between the local government and the Seneca Indians.

Actually, I did consider the possibility that someone would respond to my post with a story of personal loss blamed on Chippewa Street. I am sorry if I offended you. Are you actively trying to change the conditions that exist on Chippewa that caused your family member's death?

NYC 007,
I suppose I was a little dramatic as well, but we both Americans and Canadians did treat Native peoples horribly and so now our gov'ts give them casinos as small reparations i suppose. I was just justifying why they (Native American tribes) should be allowed to operate them, but I just don't think a casino will solve any of Buffalo's problems.

have Detroit's casinos done anything really positive for the city? I think we need input from their residents.

My point in all this is, where does it end? Why should the people who are able to gamble responsibly, and enjoy doing so, be deprived of the oppertunity just because some other people can't control themselves? There is an issue of civil liberties here. Just for the record, I don't like casino gambling either, but I also don't like more laws that tell me what I can, or more to the point, what I CAN'T do. I also don't smoke, but I hate that F'ing smoking ban.

who says they are deprived when there are 3 casinos in Niagara Falls (ON and NY) and 1 in the southtowns lol

^ Because why should they have to drive half an hour or more, sometimes in notoriously bad Buffalo-winter weather, and/or have to cross an international border to gamble? Maybe people would prefer to gamble, knowing that if they lose at least some of their money will be going to their own local government(s) and not Niagara County or Ontario. Freedom of choice is a good thing. Are you considering Salamanca a "Southtown?" It's like an hour away from Buffalo, at least, in the Southern Tier.

I think the whole anti-casino thing is about dead.

look we have Niagara Falls and soon to be Buffalo with a full fledged casino, Salamanca with a full casino. Race tracks with gambling in Hamburg, batavia and canandaigua. Turning Stones casino way to the east.

Thats just on our side of the border, the two nicest shots are in Ontario but we are certainly getting numbers here.

It also has to be allowed to grow, people will travel to NY from all over the east, especially when ultra liberal places like Mass wont allow the word casino to even be spoken of.

I agree that the casino won't fix the problems, but it will create jobs, and unlike NF I think it will spur business with the combined effort of Bass Pro and the Erie museum. Jobs, tax base, reputation, investment...ect ect.

I think the Senecas has studied real well about casinos, how big to make them and where to build them...There is a reason they want a casino in Buffalo...maybe the people of buffalo are only a fraction of the business the expect.

Erie, Cleveland, Pittsburgh...

I want to see a renderinf of what they wanna build down here...hopefully something wild yet pleasing.

According to channel 2 news, a developer just unveiled plans to redevelop the entire coblestone district...all those boarded up abandoned buildings will become 36 luxury condos, retail stores, and offices. They said it will be integrated in with the inner harbor once that gets developed.

I'm sure there will be something in the paper about it tommorrow. I Just wanted to post the news minutes after being announced.

According to channel 2 news, a developer just unveiled plans to redevelop the entire coblestone district...all those boarded up abandoned buildings will become 36 luxury condos, retail stores, and offices. They said it will be integrated in with the inner harbor once that gets developed.

I'm sure there will be something in the paper about it tommorrow. I Just wanted to post the news minutes after being announced.

Entire Cobblestone District? Hardly, but this project is a start. This is old news- it was first announced in January but just got approvals from the city:

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/8137/benlin20059tt.jpg

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/8796/benlinplanned0ub.jpg

Those Cinci people are jumpin all down on poor ol' Buff. They can't stand that their city is being compared to a place as lowly as Buffalo.

i'm soooooo sorry east coast transplant...this is the first i've heard of this...sounded pretty important to me from what they were saying on the news, as if it was something that has been kept secret for a while and no one knew it...well it's good that they got approval for it...they said construction starts in Nov/Dec and will be finished by spring...they also showed pictures of everything, there were a couple more lots and buildings included, not just the one you show above, or maybe i misinterpretted it.

Those Cinci people are jumpin all down on poor ol' Buff. They can't stand that their city is being compared to a place as lowly as Buffalo.

That's exactly why I don't come over to this thread very often, only when you call me over. Too many Buffalo bashers on here, and idk why, it's not like the Buff ever did anything to anyone else except provide a route for their cities to be created. And that Herodotus is a fucking idiot for even starting that thread, clearly he had malicious intentions. Everyone knows that once the word "buffalo" appears in any thread, retards from around the USA and other no-name countries hop on board with the bashing as if their third world cities run by warlords and/or drug lords were somehow better.

The 10/7 WGRZ-TV news story disclosed that the four story building slated for office use will be the new corporate HQ's of none other than the developer of the entire project, Savarino Construction. Also confirmed was that the units will be for sale condos and not rentals.

Here's a repost of the Buffalo News article about the Benlin Warehouse conversion from January:

2 developers team up in Cobblestone District
By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
1/10/2005

A group of vacant industrial buildings in downtown Buffalo's Cobblestone District will see new life as housing, restaurant, office and retail space.

Two veteran Buffalo developers are partners in the $15 million project to remake the vacant Benlin Distribution Services complex, five buildings located along Mississippi Street, between Perry Street and South Park Avenue. The site is a block east of HSBC Arena.

Samuel J. Savarino, of Savarino Construction Services Corp., and Christopher L. Jacobs, of Avalon Development, are joining forces on the first-of-its-kind project in the Cobblestone District.

"We're pretty excited about jumping into this," Savarino said. "We realize there is some risk involved, but we're bringing a good marriage of skills to the project and are ready for the challenge."

Jacobs, a Buffalo Board of Education member who has carved out a niche of redeveloped downtown commercial buildings in the 700 block of Main Street, is similarly positive about the ambitious project.

"The group of buildings we've chosen has so much potential," Jacobs said. "We think we can create some critical mass by bringing residential, commercial and retail uses together, and make a significant impact on Cobblestone."

The phased project will begin with conversion of a five-story warehouse building at Mississippi and Perry into a 30- to 40-unit luxury apartment or condominium building. The first floor of the residential structure will be turned into a restaurant.

The one-story building directly behind it on Mississippi will be razed to make way for private garages for the residents.

As the development unfolds, a four-story building a few doors away will be converted into an office complex, and a dilapidated loading dock will be converted to an enclosed parking structure for the office workers. A one-story brick building in the middle of the block is targeted for retail use.

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1791/0110sketch1sm.jpg

"Even though it's a phased development, it will have immediate impact on the feel and look of Cobblestone," Savarino said. "We're planning to get some great lighting on the facade of the apartment/restaurant building, which you'll be able to see from the (Niagara Thruway). There will be clear signs of life."

Jacobs said a key feature of the project is that it can "stand on its own."

"It's great that Bass Pro is coming and other development is planned, but this project isn't dependent on anything," he said. "It can be successful in its own right."

For more than a decade, even before the first shovels went into the ground for construction of HSBC Arena, city planners have predicted that Cobblestone, a chiefly industrial neighborhood surrounding the sports facility, would be Buffalo's next development hot spot. But in the seven years since the $127 million arena made its debut, spinoff projects have been sparse, at best.

Mayor Anthony M. Masiello said the Cobblestone project is further evidence of the rebirth of downtown Buffalo.

"It's taken a little longer than we thought, but we always knew Cobblestone would take off. Nobody wants to be the first in, but now that Sam and Chris are making the investment, I think we'll see the momentum build," Masiello said.

While a number of vacant industrial buildings, circa 1900, are available for creative reuse, about a dozen businesses, employing some 200 people, are thriving in Cobblestone.

John McKendry, chief executive officer of of Niagara Insulations at 79 Perry, across the street from the proposed mixed-use development, said the project will be a welcome addition. "It's about time," McKendry said. "Maybe something will actually happen over there this time. I think we'll all coexist quite nicely."

Savarino and Jacobs come to the project with strong records.

Savarino's portfolio ranges from luxury housing units at 50 Waterfront Circle at Erie Basin Marina, to redevelopment of Central Park Plaza, to construction of the D'Youville College Sports Complex. He recently announced plans to convert the historic Corn Exchange Building downtown into a hotel, and is embarking on an overhaul of the vacant New York Telephone Co. building on Elmwood Avenue to a mix of apartments and commercial use.

Jacobs recently completed an interior renovation and facade restoration of the historic Stokes Seed Co. building at 737 Main. He is now converting two adjacent structures into office space.

i'm soooooo sorry east coast transplant...this is the first i've heard of this...sounded pretty important to me from what they were saying on the news, as if it was something that has been kept secret for a while and no one knew it...well it's good that they got approval for it...they said construction starts in Nov/Dec and will be finished by spring...they also showed pictures of everything, there were a couple more lots and buildings included, not just the one you show above, or maybe i misinterpretted it.

No need to apologize! It is a very important project- keep watching for news and tidbits and don't be afraid to share! I'm not local, so your eyes and ears are very important!!!

Clarence firm moving to Buffalo

A Clarence-based maker of compressor assemblies and other products for the oil and power industries plans to move its headquarters and a manufacturing plant to Buffalo.

Cobey will set up shop in the Lakeside Commerce Park, becoming the second major tenant alongside CertainTeed Corp. The small manufacturer has signed an agreement to buy 12 acres from the Buffalo Urban Development Corp. for $475,000, and will build a 90,000-square-foot complex for manufacturing, sales and engineering. The cost is $10 million.

The company will seek approval next week from the Buffalo Planning Board, and could have the necessary permits and financing in hand within a month, said Dave Stebbins, vice president of BUDC, which is an affiliate of the Erie County Industrial Development Agency. Site preparations are already under way, and Stebbins said the company might be able to break ground either later this year or in the spring.

The site, located along Route 5 near the Lackawanna border, is in an Empire Zone and is also a brownfield, so the company would be eligible for tax incentives under two state programs, Stebbins said. The ECIDA is also talking to company officials about other incentives, such as sales tax abatements or loans.

Cobey employs a few dozen workers in Clarence, where it has its headquarters, sales and manufacturing, and in manufacturing facilities in Cheektowaga and Blasdell. The Clarence operations will relocate to Lakeside, as will Blasdell, but the Cheektowaga operation will not move, said Robert J. Castle, one of the firm's co-founders.

Castle said about 20 jobs will move to Buffalo, and the company expects to add another 25 to 50 jobs over the next five years. "We think that consolidating and expanding our business is in our best interest for long term growth," he said by e-mail. "Our business is growing and in need of more space."

Founded in June 1987 by Castle and John J. Obey, Cobey designs and makes piping packages and systems to provide pressurized lubricating oil to industrial equipment. Clients in the oil, power-generating and air separation industries have included General Electric Co., Dow Chemical Co., various utilities and refineries, and major oil companies like ConocoPhilips, Royal Dutch/Shell, BP Amoco and Exxon Mobil Corp.

Its products have been installed in North and South America, Western Europe, Russia, Southeast Asia, Australia, the Middle East and North Africa. Earlier this year, a Russian-built Antonov AN-125 cargo plane, one of the world's largest, flew into Niagara Falls International Airport to pick up three compressor packages made by Cobey.

The company wanted to add a new production line and ran out of room at its current plants, so it began looking around for a new location earlier this year, Stebbins said. The Buffalo Niagara Enterprise economic development group showed them several sites, and officials settled on Lakeside.

BNE then brought BUDC into the process to provide incentives and negotiate the deal, Stebbins said. BUDC put three parcels together to meet Cobey's needs. The company plans a 72,000-square-foot manufacturing facility and 18,000 square feet for offices.

"This was a perfect example of how it's supposed to work," Stebbins said. "This was a lead that Buffalo Niagara worked on, and they brought it to us. It's a real good combination of economic development partners working together."

http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20051008/1036021.asp\ (http://buffalonews.com/editorial/20051008/1036021.asp)

I thought Ciminelli was going to be putting up some spec buildings at the Ship Canal property? They're another firm that has alot of talk- the only new construction they've done recently is at Colvin Woods. They're relatively dormant on the development scene, though they're trying to get the Muir Woods and Village Park expansion projects approved in Amherst.

For that matter- where are there any light industrial/distribution spec properties being built? The only ones I can think of are from Benderson in Cheektowaga off Broadway that you can see from the 90. When you hear the president of Duke speak of further development in Buffalo, we can only hope...

That's exactly why I don't come over to this thread very often, only when you call me over. Too many Buffalo bashers on here, and idk why, it's not like the Buff ever did anything to anyone else except provide a route for their cities to be created. And that Herodotus is a fucking idiot for even starting that thread, clearly he had malicious intentions. Everyone knows that once the word "buffalo" appears in any thread, retards from around the USA and other no-name countries hop on board with the bashing as if their third world cities run by warlords and/or drug lords were somehow better.

Had the same thing over at Simtropolis. Someone over there decided they were going to create a true-to-life model of Buffalo in SC4, and made the "mistake" of calling the city journal "The Queen City". Less than two pages into the thread some Cincy person had to come flying in with his defense of why Cincy is the "Queen City". Apparently they hold nicknames in very high regard there. Of course once the thread author posted a link to a bunch of "Queen City" cities, this person disappeared. Apparently didn't like it once those damned facts reared their ugly heads.

From the Buffalo Place E-report:

Cars Sharing Main Street Design Moving Forward!

Partners from the City of Buffalo, NFTA and Buffalo Place met with the Cars Sharing Main Street Consultant Team last week. The design work is being
organized and the consultants are collecting available information to guide their design work. One of the consultant’s first tasks will be to contact Main Street property owners, businesses and residents from Edward/Goodell to Scott Street to learn their concerns and issues.

Design work will provide for two lanes of traffic to share the Trainway with Metro Rail, and will include an attractive streetscape, a new signal system to resolve Main Street traffic engineering concerns and pedestrian and cyclist safety.

Please watch the Buffalo Place E-Report for updates and announcements regarding this important Downtown project. The first Public Meeting is expected in December.

Here's the website: http://buffaloplaceereport.com/

it will make one hell of a difference!

let me drive...I noticed in Toronto they have street cars, seems to work...they are not as heavy as our subway/rail cars...but still, as long as the people of Buffalo can handle it...wtf, lets go.

Developer plans condos on former Schmidt Building site
By SHARON LINSTEDT
News Staff Reporter
10/10/2005

Amherst developer Michael Joseph will add condominiums to his roster of residential projects along the 700 block of Main Street in downtown Buffalo.
Joseph, who redeveloped the Sidway and Ansonia buildings into apartments, plans to construct a four-story, 36-unit condominium complex at 736 Main St., on a vacant lot where the long-embattled Schmidt Building once stood.

Joseph, who signed a purchase contract for the property last October, originally considered a mix of condos and apartments but now wants to target pent-up demand for owner-occupied dwellings downtown.

"I think there are a lot of people who want to live downtown, but they want to own, not rent. They want equity," Joseph said.

The $9 million condo proposal, which will be filed with the city by early December, calls for enclosed ground-floor parking and retail, with a landscaped interior courtyard and three upper floors of residences. The two-bedroom, two-bath units, all with fireplaces, will range in size from 1,200 to 1,500 square feet and will be priced from $230,000 to $250,000.

Joseph said at that price, mortgage payments will average about $1,500 a month when income tax benefits are factored in.

"This is a pricing level that's comparable to monthly rent at many of the new downtown housing developments, but you'll also have an ownership stake," he said. "I have no doubt this will be successful."

The condo site had been home to a dilapidated two-story building owned by businessman Alex Schmidt. That structure was demolished in 2004 by court order following a lengthy tug of war between Schmidt and preservationists.

The parcel is also next door to the Vernor Building, a vacant, blighted, three-story structure that was once a Pierce-Arrow showroom. This building has been the subject of a two-decade preservation debate.

In August, the Buffalo Preservation Board ruled the building is now beyond repair, opening the door to its demolition if certain architectural elements are salvaged and the cleared site is not reused as a parking lot.

Bernard Obletz, of First Amherst Development, is proposing condominiums for the site. First Amherst owns Lofts at Elk Terminal in the Cobblestone District and has redeveloped several buildings in the 800 block of Main.

"I'm comfortable enough that there will be a positive resolution with the Vernor to proceed with my project," Joseph said. "I did Ansonia and Sidway with a lot of blight nearby, so even if it sits there another year or so, I'm not concerned."

The developer would like to start construction early next year.

this is great, a lot being developed!

Here's something to get the juices flowing- progress on the Granite Works project in the 800 block of Main:

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1087/80011iw.jpg

Under Renovation:
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/2708/846mainthumb5xk.jpg
Courtesy: Figmo, Buffalo Rising Journal

Projects like this are going to make a bigger impact on the city than any highrise building becasue it will erase the pervasive appearance of decay that wears on people and gives the city a bad image around the country.

If I had the choice to have every older gem filled with units or retail or getting more high rises than Toronto...I would say keep the tall ones and allow Buffalo to lick her wounds and become Very strong again.

Steel, that is perhaps one of the best replys you have ever said here...thanks

I'm thinking of doing a Tour (two part) of Genesee Street from The Airport to The NIMO...walking the entire distance and getting shots of all these renovation ready sites...just wanting some love...afterwards, going over to Broadway and doing the same. It's the East side...but I'll deal with it.

From the Airport to Downtown? :eek2:

Not only is that about 10 miles (guessing) but it passes through some rough neighborhoods! Start at Jefferson and walk towards downtown- its a short walk, and there's some outstanding 2-3 story commercial properties vacant and looking for investment. Plus infill homes to give the area some hope. A charter school renovated a building along that stretch (next to UniStage) and it looks great.

How about some pics of Oak School Lofts, Buehling, and Kastings Floral projects?

^ I drove down Broadway from Transit Rd in Depew right up to the Rand building a couple of weeks ago, and I didn't think it was really that bad looking. The worst looking part was actually right in against downtown.

Although my impression could also be swayed because it's the best way to get straight into or out of downtown without using an expressway - being right next to all the rail yards eliminates intersections...

^ I drove down Broadway from Transit Rd in Depew right up to the Rand building a couple of weeks ago, and I didn't think it was really that bad looking. The worst looking part was actually right in against downtown.

Although my impression could also be swayed because it's the best way to get straight into or out of downtown without using an expressway - being right next to all the rail yards eliminates intersections...

That is because most of it has been removed

Hey Guys...I've been frequenting this forum for quite a while, and finally decided to register. I've been following Buffalo development for quite a few years, as it's really exciting to see it all happen.
I moved into the new Holling Press building back in June, and I have to say that I love it. Prior to living here, I lived with two roomates at the Belesario. Although the amenities were nicer at the Belesario, we didn't have even close to the view that I have here. I'm a college student, and therefor do not need granite counter tops, a steam shower, etc. That considered, overall, I'm much more content at Holling. Not to mention, rent is significantly less. If you guys happened to catch the article on Holling Place in Saturday's homefinder, all of the pictures were of my apartment.

Hey Guys...I've been frequenting this forum for quite a while, and finally decided to register. I've been following Buffalo development for quite a few years, as it's really exciting to see it all happen.
I moved into the new Holling Press building back in June, and I have to say that I love it. Prior to living here, I lived with two roomates at the Belesario. Although the amenities were nicer at the Belesario, we didn't have even close to the view that I have here. I'm a college student, and therefor do not need granite counter tops, a steam shower, etc. That considered, overall, I'm much more content at Holling. Not to mention, rent is significantly less. If you guys happened to catch the article on Holling Place in Saturday's homefinder, all of the pictures were of my apartment.

Welcome DTBflo! So how many of the units are occupied at Holling? Has Epstein started with the 6 unit project across the street? Congrats on picking downtown to live!

Yes, welcome to the forum, DTBflo!

I'm pretty sure the building is close to 70 percent occupancy. Epstein has two other projects (Broadway and YMCA) that have to be completed before he's starting The Brownstone.

Has anybody here gone to check out the Oak School Lofts? I went about a month ago just to look at the model unit and was really impressed..

I would love to see pictures of the Buehl Block Lofts..

I think it is time to get out of downtown for a while. I posted this project a few months ago and did not get much reaction but it is actually the most important project in the city.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9084/aaamori6ug.jpg

This is the new visitor center for the restored Martin House (a major project in its own Wright (pun :) )). It is slated to start construction next year and will be a very sophisticated contemporary building. Many say that it will be a world class modern building something that is very hard for any city to build these days. If you want to know more about the competition that produced this winning design by Toshiko Mori look for a book called "Frank Lloyd Wright's Darwin Martin House Visitors' Center Competition...On Wright". It is published by the School of Architecture and Planning at SUNNY Buffalo.

Holling is awsome...and you rent those right?

If I could pick up a job in Downtown I would move there in a second...or anywhere that was downtown.

notice how many many people actually are living there now and not just "wanting" to?

It's turning around, it's getting better...finally.

I think it is time to get out of downtown for a while. I posted this project a few months ago and did not get much reaction but it is actually the most important project in the city.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9084/aaamori6ug.jpg

This is the new visitor center for the restored Martin House (a major project in its own Wright (pun :) )). It is slated to start construction next year and will be a very sophisticated contemporary building. Many say that it will be a world class modern building something that is very hard for any city to build these days. If you want to know more about the competition that produced this winning design by Toshiko Mori look for a book called "Frank Lloyd Wright's Darwin Martin House Visitors' Center Competition...On Wright". It is published by the School of Architecture and Planning at SUNNY Buffalo.

There isn't much to say but lets get started on it already! Martin, the Boat House, Graycliffe, Blue Sky Mosoleum, Wright Service Station- damn, for any architecture buff, we're going to be a must-see. Its just that the renovation is taking twice as long as the construction! :bash:

...And there are very few signs of life happening at the site of the Wright Service Station. There's a big sign there indicating where it's going to go, but it doesn't look like anything is going on. There is some information about it at www.pierce-arrow.com (because the filling station is somehow affiliated with the Pierce Arrow Museum) but the latest info at that website says, "In 2004, through the donation of materials and services totaling more than $250,000, construction on The Buffalo Filling Station by Frank Lloyd Wright™ will begin." But now that it's nearly 2006, and construction has not begun, what gives? Does anyone have any info on this project?

Invigorating Main St. pulse, old factory will be new haven for artists to live, work

By MARK SOMMER
Buffalo News Staff Reporter
10/13/2005


A project offering low-income, loft-style living and work spaces for artists - the most ambitious to be undertaken in Buffalo - was formally unveiled Wednesday.

The 60-unit project will be in and behind the historic 1914 building that housed Buffalo Electric Vehicle Co., an automobile factory, at 1219 Main St. It is the 19th project by Artspace Projects, the nation's leading nonprofit developer of space for artists and arts organizations.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., who helped secure critical funding, was on hand at Kleinhans Music Hall to celebrate the project's launch.

It was the second stop on her visit to Buffalo on Wednesday, sandwiched between an endorsement of State Sen. Byron W. Brown, Democratic candidate for Buffalo mayor, and support for a state promotional campaign for apples.

"This arts project will bring new life and activity into Buffalo, and further enhance the city's reputation as a creative arts destination," Clinton said.

"The arts are an engine for economic development. They clearly are the means by which we revitalize neighborhoods, buildings and communities."

Mayor Anthony M. Masiello hailed Buffalo Artspace as one in a number of projects that are populating downtown through conversions of historic buildings into lofts, apartments and condominiums.

The mayor said he hoped that Artspace Buffalo would also be a catalyst for more development of industrial structures for artists' living and work spaces.

The design by lead project architect Hamilton Houston Lownie Architects calls for 36 units in the renovated brick factory, also known as the Breitweiser Building. It was recently added to the National Register of Historic Places.

Sizes for the living/work spaces in the five-story building will range from studio to three-bedroom and feature 10-foot-tall windows and exposed concrete floors. The top four floors will be "hard loft" housing - flexible, multipurpose spaces without much trim or adornment, along with exposed masonry walls, ceiling structures and mechanical systems.

Twenty-four units are planned for a new building behind it that architect Matt Meier said will be "a hybrid industrial warehouse environment" that maintains the feel of a residential neighborhood.

Monthly rents will range from $450 to $895, including utilities. There also will be ground-floor commercial space for arts-compatible businesses.

The event brought an outpouring of local arts administrators seeking a glimpse of the Artspace design.

"The timing is really perfect, because we have so many new developments going on downtown," said Lawrence Brose, executive director of CEPA Gallery in the Market Arcade.

"People aren't waiting any longer for something to happen. They are just doing it, and that's really great."

Louis Grachos, director of Albright-Knox Art Gallery, said, "It's an exceptional project, and it's rewarding for me as a museum director to see initiatives like Artspace really taking over in Buffalo."

Clinton's and Masiello's help in bringing the project to Buffalo drew praise from Wendy Holmes, vice president of resource development for 26-year-old, Minneapolis-based Artspace. "We wish we could have this much support in our own back yard," she said.

The $16 million project - which includes $1.1 million from the private sector - is expected to open in December 2006. Interior work is scheduled to begin this December. For information, visit www.artspacebuffalo.org.

Clinton also appeared Wednesday at a fund-raising event for Brown in his campaign office and joined Rep. Louise M. Slaughter, D-Fairport, and officials from a trade association and JetBlue Airways in supporting a promotional campaign for New York State apples.

...And still more news from today's Business First of Buffalo:



Termini targets downtown lot for project


A developer has set his sights on a downtown surface parking lot for his next project.

Rocco Termini, president of Signature Development Buffalo LLC, is working with Buffalo officials on a multi-pronged project slated for a city-owned parcel along Ellicott Street that's nestled between the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority's headquarters and the main branch of the Buffalo & Erie County Public Library.

The Buffalo Urban Renewal Agency, during its Oct. 13 meeting, was expected to name Signature designate developer for the parcel. The designation will last for six months with another six-month renewal option.

"It's a perfect shovel-ready site in Buffalo," Termini said.

Termini said he is negotiating with an "unnamed" prospective tenant that could ultimately dictate what and how the parcel is developed.

Initial plans call for a 600-car parking lot to be included in the project with at least 300 of the spaces being built underground.

The remainder of the parcel would be used for the tenant's project.

Termini declined to identify the tenant, citing a confidentiality agreement.

The final cost and design of the project will be subject to the on-going negotiations, Termini said.

"We hope to have everything in place in the next 90 days," he said.

Hmmmm.....New Era Cap???? M&T?

This is a huge parking lot- the one that Giambra was eyeing as part of an expanded ECC. Signature/Termini were also looking at the AM&As site- I wonder if this changes things, especially with word that Forbes is also considering taking on AM&As. This lot can handle a ramp, offices and residential- it may even spur the owners of Lafayette Hotel to sell or redevelop if we're lucky.

Have any of you guys heard of this?

My office just today got an RFP (Request for Proposal) for a traffic impact study for a fairly large combination amusement park, retail, entertainment, and hotel/conference development in Wheatfield, near the end of the LaSalle Expwy, north of River Rd, and south of the Summit Park Mall.

Perhaps this is one of those "lifestyle" centers that Cyburbia thinks we need?

Have any of you guys heard of this?

My office just today got an RFP (Request for Proposal) for a traffic impact study for a fairly large combination amusement park, retail, entertainment, and hotel/conference development in Wheatfield, near the end of the LaSalle Expwy, north of River Rd, and south of the Summit Park Mall.

Perhaps this is one of those "lifestyle" centers that Cyburbia thinks we need?

It's the wizard of oz themepark.

Oh yeah, I thought I had heard something about that on the radio over the summer. Either way, it looks like it's supposed to be alot more than just a themepark. Should be interesting to see how it pans out.

here is what I think is gonna happen...

New Era - the new lot developed by Termini
ECC Downtown - AM&A's building
M&T - no expansion yet

btw...what is Forbes? looking at AM&A's?

Once the Seneca Buffalo Casino is built...there is a chance that the area around it will get some attention as far as "names" all those people are targets for places which need to advertise right?

I hear once the Casino is built, Hamburg will close down it's race track and casino operations.

here is what I think is gonna happen...

New Era - the new lot developed by Termini
ECC Downtown - AM&A's building
M&T - no expansion yet

btw...what is Forbes? looking at AM&A's?

Once the Seneca Buffalo Casino is built...there is a chance that the area around it will get some attention as far as "names" all those people are targets for places which need to advertise right?

I hear once the Casino is built, Hamburg will close down it's race track and casino operations.

My guess is New Era for Termini because thats the only big user I know thats out there looking. The State is looking, but they want to be in their new space in the next few months. M&T is rumored to be taking space in Uniland's new building on Delaware, thus Uniland just received approval for it to be five floors, instead of four. They wouldn't expand it if they didn't have a tenant lined up.

Forbes is a suburban home builder. Lasky, the owner, is a partner of Clover at the Ansonia Centre which they are selling (Lasky wants out).
www.forbeshomes.com
This would be his first downtown project, but he has partnered with MJPeterson on infill homes on the east side. They are a name builder, that many recognize, thus they bring credibility and some money to the table.

was it Chase financial that was also looking for space as well, thats my guess for unilands Delaware project.

the state will IMO go to the NIMO, only because the developer turned that to class A for a reason, and there have been no rumors about tenants if I'm not mistaken.

I kinda like it when the State rents instead of owns buildings, the land belongs on the market for business, not as a showcase like Albany.

edit***the article was already posted above.****

seargentcm, where do you work? I was working on a lot of traffic impact studies when i was out in california. I actually have an interview next week with a company for a job doing them here in buffalo.

^GPI, formerly Pratt & Huth. One of the (if not the) premier land development engineering consultants in the area, they were bought by GPI (out of Babylon) a year or so ago. They're expanding rapidly, and they already had work in the Buffalo area with the Bridge Authorities so the buyout was apparently a win-win situation.

They hired me and a few others (one moved here from Fresno) because they're looking to diversify more into the highway side of things. Now we just need some highway stuff to actually come out. I'm counting on those increased Thruway tolls to start throwing some work our way.

^I interviewed with GPI's Albany office a couple months ago. Are you guys hiring by chance? lol

They were on a hiring binge (yes, a hiring binge in Buffalo) during the summer, but it was more for the land development side. Hired a couple of UB grads with their Masters in Urban Planning, or something like that. As for their transportation section (I say section, but we haven't been able to work as such yet), they transferred a guy from Albany, whose family actually lives in Cleveland, as does he on weekends. Then they picked me off of the NHDOT, and the other guy off Caltrans. He took the job because his wife was from here, he's always liked visiting here, her family is in Rochester, and he had been transferred from Sacramento to Fresno and didn't care for having a 2 hour commute when he lived 10 miles from work.

The branch manager is looking at adding another survey crew sometime next year, but in the meantime, if nobody leaves, we're going to need to find a new office if anybody else is hired!

I know they just acquired a company in Ohio, I forget exactly where. Somewhere around Cleveland I think.

As for others around here, I had also applied at TVGA in Elma, they called and said they were interested, but never got back to me. Of course even if they had, I had already accepted this one. There was also a job in Elmira I applied and interviewed for, and I think probably would've gotten, with Hunt (they're doing alot of the NY 17 / I-86 stuff). They were also looking to start a Rochester office, so had I taken that job I probably would've had the option of transferring there. But that interview was the same day as GPI, and I already knew I had that one if I wanted, plus they didn't get back to me for another 2 weeks and the compensation wasn't as good. With GPIs I've only lost a step from all the state benes in NH. Not to mention health care here costs less than half of what the state contract there costs.

Well that's enough about me lol.

was downtown tonight, on Elmwood and up at Delaware park..peaceful night in the city.

They need to light a few buildings up at night in Buffalo...we have the damn architecture, why are we hiding it, Rand Building, Buffalo Historical Society, Albright Knox, Statler Hotel and Central Terminal.

nightlife was okay tonight, for a cold thursday, say people on Forest, Elmwood, Chippewa and....Genesee LOL.

^ I agree.
we should start a petition to get the Rand building lit up at night.
Here's a postcard (undated) showing it lit up:

http://www.andrle.com/vintage/views044a.jpg

perhaps the original lighting would be the best.

perhaps the original lighting would be the best.

Buff You do a lot of drivin in ta the Buff

I like the laser beam shooting from the pole on top.

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/6360/acs2bt.jpg

Here's the rendering of Clover's Aids Community Services Bldg. going up on High Street. Not spectacular, but it could be worse.

I like that it hugs the corner. I hope they are not puting too large of a parking lot on the site. I think that site is bigger than this building. It is good that it hugs the corner. This corner needs a lot of work. There are some parking lots and trashy motels around here.

I like that it hugs the corner. I hope they are not puting too large of a parking lot on the site. I think that site is bigger than this building. It is good that it hugs the corner. This corner needs a lot of work. There are some parking lots and trashy motels around here.

I agree- at least there's no parking out front! The corner that this is facing is North and Washington. I believe there is a bank at North and Main. Time to get it down and redeveloped.

^Don't you mean High and Washington?

^Don't you mean High and Washington?

yes, my bad! High Street!

You guys probably already know about this website, but if you don't you should check it out. There's tons of good discussion, "news," and photos.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/printthread.php?threadid=61788&perpage=753