Bradford City Centre Regeneration [Archive] - Page 9

Mezzo

November 13th, 2009, 01:52 PM

There was an article in Monday's Media Guardian about hopeless local newspapers:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/09/local-newspapers-democracy
Sadly the T&A doesn't get a mention, but this passage may as well have been written about them:

There's one respect in which the local press is confronting power: by campaigning against the free papers published by local authorities (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/27/council-newspapers-mps). These, the papers say, are propaganda sheets, which provide a biased view of council business. Does that sound familiar? In his book Flat Earth News, Nick Davies cites a survey of press releases issued across two months by Northumberland county council. Ninety-six percent of them were turned into stories by local papers. In many cases the papers copied the releases verbatim; in no case did they add any information. They might as well have been published by the council.Today, the same columnist has written a follow up piece about GOOD local papers:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/12/local-newspapers
Here's a snippet:

The Doncaster Free Press (http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/) also does well: "The [Doncaster Free Press] has been openly critical of the local council and business elite since the Donniegate scandals of the 1980s. A good recent example is the building of bus lanes that was ordered by central government … drivers must cross the bus lane to join the highway and there have been three serious accidents that I am aware of … The local newspaper has opposed this from the start."
Here are the other papers that readers recommend: "The Sentinel has long been a thorn in the side of what is probably the most ineptly run city council in the UK. Almost every week there is a probing report or comment on Stoke-on-Trent City Council's latest farago. To illustrate my point you only need to take a look at today's editorial (http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/news/Sentinel-Leader-badly-awry/article-1499759-detail/article.html)."
Although I would argue that Stoke is NOT the most ineptly run city council in the UK (guess where the honour goes), it's a shame that we don't a paper like the Free Press or Sentinel here in Bradford.

BROADSWORD

November 14th, 2009, 02:25 PM

Maybe this forum's Bradford related link should be renamed "Barrelscraper City" - in honour of CBMDC's hopeless attempts to do anything right.

The Midas touch in reverse. Whatever they do, turns to crap.

I think that the council has a secret weekly meeting of senior management. They try to come up with the most useless, inept, bungling and wasteful ideas to "regenerate" the city - and alienate public opinion at the same time. And the winner gets the go ahead.

Lucky they can always count on Porky Austin Clarke and the Toothless and Gutless to give them full and unquestioning backing.

BROADSWORD

November 14th, 2009, 05:58 PM

I really must get round to starting my thread about the Toothless and Gutless - and the part it has played to make Bradford the wonderful city we all love so well.

Here's a story that Porky Austin Clarke doesn't like to mention.

A few years back the T&G was full of eulogies about a seemingly amazing Bradford athlete. One Zaf Shah, a 10k specialist.

Not a week went by without reporting on his achievements. How he had been picked to run in the Commonwealth Games, his incredible speed (his 10k time got faster almost by the day, and he claimed to be one of the fastest in the UK) and how he was a model to his community.

CBMDC loved him - they wheeled him out at many civic functions and dinners, made him a community representative for sport in the city and generally idolised him.

It was also picked up by other media. He got tv interviews and write ups in the national press. A local health club used him in their advertising, shops gave him free kit, and more. What a guy. This went on for years. Eventually the T&G hailed him as our "Olympic hopeful." Oh yes kids, he was going to run for the UK and get a medal. Phew!

But...

Local runners kept saying: who IS this man? Never seen him at a race. Or training at a track or with an athletic club. Zaf who?

So they did some checking with the athletics world. No one had ever heard of him or seen him. He'd never run a race - and as for the Commonwealth Games claim - he dropped out two days before with a convenient "injury." Then changed his mind and said it was an "entrant issue." There's a lot more about old Zaf - and his claims and fantasies - but you get the idea.

The Yorkshire Post and Athletics Weekly finally exposed him as a fraud. Also on tv. He did a bit of running ok. But not at any quality level. He'd suckered everyone - and especially the T&G - which flat refused to report the deception. Even though they were alerted several times over some years that the man was a phony. The editor's excuse - when challenged - was that this "was not in the public interest." Oh really?

The point of my post is: it tells you everything you need to know about the T&G's take on issues in the Bradford. Ie: it's one of the most censored newspapers in the country - and is a propaganda peddler for the council.

Shah dropped out of sight and has never been heard of since. As you do.

More T&G gossip to come.

If you want get Porky into a screaming rage - ask him if he's given any more money to the BNP lately. Oh yes folks - it's true.

emma72

November 14th, 2009, 09:57 PM

The Midas touch in reverse. Whatever they do, turns to crap.

:lol:

*-City Of Bradford-*

November 14th, 2009, 11:18 PM

If you want get Porky into a screaming rage - ask him if he's given any more money to the BNP lately. Oh yes folks - it's true.

Waaaat!

BROADSWORD

November 16th, 2009, 06:18 PM

Porky Austin Clarke paid money to the BNP after the last council elections.

The Toothless and Gutless fabricated a story about a prospective BNP councillor. Accusing him of violence and other activities.

After complaints, the T&G refused to apologise or recant the lies.

Legal action was brought against them and they lost.

Porky had to pay damages and costs to the BNP man. To give the guy credit, he then donated it all to a charity.

Porky had a screaming gibbering fit. It was posted several times on the T&G forum by several people. Instantly wiped and the posters got banned.

So - as I said - if you want to really - like really - piss off old Porky, ask him if the T&G has paid any more money to the BNP. Why not give him a call?

Ain't life fun?

PS: Several people have asked questions about T&G policy lately on their joke "forum." Wiped of course. The T&G must be one of the most censored newspapers in the UK.

g1ne

November 18th, 2009, 03:11 PM

Looking at Westfield's own website, it does seem a bit coincidental that they practically decided to stop work on Broadway as soon as they got the go ahead to build the massive and very expensive Stratford City Development on the London 2012 Olympic site, supposedly to be the biggest shopping centre in the UK, which(despite the recession that they're blaming for not building Broadway) looks to be going on at speed, in an effort to be ready by 2011. To me it appears we've been shafted in favour of the publicity of producing a much-much higher profile development. We may get the shopping centre we need so badly, but sadly it looks like not until the Olympics are over, lol, just in time for Xmas 2012, which all the retailers would love, given the sales over this time of the year make up the majority of a financial years figures, allowing them to trade through 2013, as well as it being a quick and easy way to rapidly fill the units & establish the centre. Like I say, all seems coincidental to me.

BROADSWORD

November 19th, 2009, 05:58 PM

The Broadway Shopperwoppa - being built and opened by the end of 2012?

Like **** it will. As it takes at least 3 years to build, if they started tomorrow, they couldn't do it. And they won't be starting until some vague distant date in about 5 years time. If ever.

I have to admire your optimism.

The Shopperwoppa has about as much chance as:

Maud Marshall giving up her pension...

Porky Austin Clarke being the editor of a real newspaper...

CBMDC to stop pumping out lying propaganda crap...

PS: As I mentioned Porky... I hear his reporting staff are now refusing to deny that the Toothless and Gutless is in some sort of deal with the council about the "news" they print about Bradford. Hmmm...

birkyboy

November 19th, 2009, 08:09 PM

read this interesting article, have to agree with it all.

Bradford is a relief after contemporary Leeds. Its railway stations may be pathetic, its post-war towers may seem to think they’re in Plymouth, but there’s no debating the murky beauty of the city, supporting its one-time claim that while Leeds was famous locally, Bradford is famed internationally. The local stone is sombre and powerful as the architecture (usually local firms like Lockwood & Mawson), mostly neoclassical with experiments in gothic and moderne. Yet presumably because of its reputation for poverty and civil unrest, Bradford largely did not enjoy the boom’s dubious benefits.

From the raised park adjoining the excellent Telegraph & Argus building (and its recent imitation, the “Gatehaus”) you can survey the vast hole torn in the centre of Bradford which is its main legacy. Westfield had planned to have a mall built and finished here by early 2008 (as some local signs proclaim). In autumn 2009 they still haven’t started work. Of course this gives the city the exceptional chance to reject the shopping obsession that has torn the heart out of so many others. The space potentially awaits a park, public housing, if Bradford has the guts.

As it is, the Westfield Hole is a purple-fenced mass which reorients the city’s geography, impossible to miss, with its propaganda posters practically insulting Bradford. “Urban Energy”, “Cafe Culture”, “City Living”, all those Blairite Urban Renaissance clichés — one of them is currently defaced by the graffito “BEST AMONG RUINS”.

Aside from the hole, the city has gingerly attempted the Mancunian approach to regeneration (though Bradford’s buildings are mostly better), adapting and reusing some warehouses and mills. This works reasonably well in Little Germany. This hilltop area, marked by a mural celebrating the foundation of the Independent Labour Party nearby, presents a series of canyon-like views and rich juxtapositions, particularly at night when it is utterly deserted.

At the other side of town is a very similar warehouse district (rebranded “Goitside” by the Bradford Civic Society), in a state of advanced ruination.

What we have here is a Victorian Detroit, in the powerful, poignant meeting of scale, grandeur and decay. What is less picturesque are the (architecturally fine) Edwardian council tenements nearby, boarded up, littered with drug paraphernalia, smelling of piss. It’s proof positive that success has nothing to do with architectural quality — in Manchester or Leeds these places would have been gentrified a decade ago.

Nonetheless, this area is one of the most awesome urban environments in Britain, with the 19th century’s dark power aided by some bizarre sixties fortresses on the horizon — John Brunton & Partners’ outrageous High Point, the side of Bradford University Tower where local stone is put to more Corbusian uses. The view over the Obelisks of Undercliffe Cemetery is equally breathtaking.

Another instance of the Manc Young Professional approach is Manningham Mills — one of Urban Splash’s “successes” in that the new flats have been selling, although they couldn’t resist adding a few pods to the roof of their restoration job. Yet Manningham has a reputation for, shall we say, civil disputation, and the gating of even the car park shows Urban Splash’s “bravery” only goes so far. The irony of a factory where a massive strike helped give birth to the Labour Party becoming luxury apartments is doubtless not lost on Manningham.

The other restoration success story is Saltaire. A few miles out of the city, this was a factory boss’s utopia, the Total Mill Town. It’s far more severe than its garden city successors, yet is clearly very popular indeed — we go there during a packed Saltaire Festival, with the demographic markedly more affluent than in Manningham. It sets a standard of cohesion and organisation which puts the “organic” development of nearby milltowns in the shade.

Leeds No.1

November 20th, 2009, 12:35 AM

I agree with it too, but not really sure it's a good article. It's essentially celebrating Bradford's 'failure'... not a good thing really.

MattN

November 20th, 2009, 09:05 AM

Celebrating seems a bit too strong a word, in fact it seems more of a lament that manages to acknowledge the interest and atmosphere to be found in the city, which is true. The catastrophes are of course a great shame, but it doesn't deny this.

BROADSWORD

November 20th, 2009, 09:33 AM

Check out the latest issue of CBMDC's naked propaganda gibber: "Community Pride", Nov 09 issue.

Forget for the moment that the council is blowing at least half a million quid a year (the true figure) of public money to advertise itself with misleading twaddle and examine its contents.

Particularly the main story about "Steady progress on district's regeneration."
Sounds like the lies coming from the eastern front via Goebbels.

Full of claims and boasts - such as "the city centre park will act as a catalyst for further investment...putting Bradford on the map as a tourist and business destination..." How? Why will a small shallow pond behind city hall create a stampede of companies and visitors up the M1, desperate to come to Bradford?

Utter bollocks of course. So nothing new then?

I'm thinking of doing a rival publication called "Community Shame." Telling it like it really is in this doomed city.

MattN

November 20th, 2009, 10:01 AM

So now the place is doomed again? make your mind up!

birkyboy

November 20th, 2009, 10:41 AM

What this article does is to emphasis the enormous potential the city centre and its close surroundings offer. Its hugely frustrating that very little of it is realised.

BROADSWORD

November 20th, 2009, 12:48 PM

Dear Glossy,

"Doomed..."

It was a sarcastic term.

Obviously went flying way over your head.

BROADSWORD

November 20th, 2009, 12:58 PM

A quote from Community Bollocks (aka Community Pride)...

Our Vision: "By 2020 Bradford will be a vibrant, prosperous, creative, peaceful, diverse and inclusive place where people are proud of their shared values, and work together to secure this vision for future generations."

Note: we're almost half way there to this fantasy dreamland...

When you've finished with the sick bucket, you might ask CBMDC why, since this fatuous garbage was first issued in 2001, that this "vision" is now further away than ever. Why the city is in a far worse condition, on every social index, than it was a decade ago? And whose fault it is.

ahillyar

November 21st, 2009, 09:44 PM

I've just seen CBMDC's seasonal poster campaign:

"Visit Bradford City centre and step into Christmas..."

You'll probably step into something alright. But it won't be Christmas.

I can't believe that the key Christmas shopping period has started and the repaving of the city centre streets is still ongoing

The very slow progression on this project is making the city centre even worse than it already is.

BROADSWORD

November 24th, 2009, 06:41 PM

Today's Toothless and Gutless shows Bradford's Strategic Director of Culture, Tourism and Sport - one Jane Glaister - knocking back the champagne (paid for by the public)and announcing that "there is lots more to do" in spending even more public money on "many varied and exciting projects.' This was at an all expenses "conference" - paid for - you guessed it at the back there- with yet more public money.

Exciting? You need to get out more Janey.

And can anyone explain what is the difference between a director - and a "strategic" director?

Oh - just realised. Strategic directors get paid twice as much. Want a pay increase? Just tell your employers that you want your job of burger flipper changing to strategic burger flipper. Instant pay rise.

So the Bradford Bullshit Factory never stops its relentless production of propaganda twaddle. And we believe it all - don't we boys and girls? You bet.

Just check this out from Janey: "We have much to learn from the past and how it informs our future. It is essential that people are able to access opportunities to become involved in such projects and that the impacts of such work are felt."

Still awake? If being a boring, self important tw*t was an Olympic event, this woman would be UK team captain.

*-City Of Bradford-*

November 28th, 2009, 09:38 PM

Bradford Christmas Lights have gone up, and the Light Night Thursday Shopping is back on. Here's just a quick peak of what it's like:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2490/4141444788_d73270ec2a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620/4140681401_6234fcf9f0_b.jpg

The Christmas Lights Switch on was also a success with Grupo-Puja being the main act. City Hall was also lit up rather nicely:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2694/4106293956_51b4a0fca4_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2770/4105522429_a5e66d315f_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2791/4106285246_0845fa03da_b.jpg

The Empty Units in Forster Square have now been taken over by DFS with a new and stylish glass front:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2687/4140688699_1f5516f00c_b.jpg

And that's pretty much it:)

ahillyar

November 29th, 2009, 12:22 AM

Are they not exactly the same Christmas lights they've had up Darley Street for many many years?

BROADSWORD

November 29th, 2009, 08:08 PM

See CBMDC's Number One Son still at it.

Well... everyone needs a hobby. No matter how sad. Truly and desperately sad.

But the show must go on. And just in folks...

See the Swiss people have been actually been given a democratic vote about what can - and in this case can't - be built in their own country. They've rejected the building of any more mosques (or is just minarets). The people have spoken. Wow. Lucky bastards to have been given the choice.

Now if only us suckers in Barfdord had the same rights on what could be built in the city. It would be goodbye pond. Goodbye Willy Allslop. Goodbye toytown. Goodbye canal.

di Livio

December 26th, 2009, 04:52 PM

Am I sad enough to post on Boxing Day? Apparently i am.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/3843320231_109ae1a278_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3418/3843320537_052db7e42e_o.jpg

Dan B

December 26th, 2009, 09:53 PM

Saw these photos when my computer was down, on flickr weren't they? They could've stopped there and we'd still be alright. Heartbreaking.

Dan B

December 26th, 2009, 09:57 PM

Baht'at

December 27th, 2009, 10:59 AM

Only too true. When growing up I used to think The Sentinel was a national newspaper given the quality of them especially the Sunday. I tended to think most local papers had that air of professionalism, not so when you read the pages of the T&A. that's why the url is http://www.perrysarsewipe.co.uk

Wonder if they'll sue me like the Daily Fail for http://www.hurrahfortheblackshirts.co.uk

Dan B

December 27th, 2009, 03:23 PM

that's why the url is http://www.perrysarsewipe.co.uk

Wonder if they'll sue me like the Daily Fail for http://www.hurrahfortheblackshirts.co.uk

:lol:

Dan B

December 27th, 2009, 11:31 PM

The first stage of the new paving is about complete in town minus some of the street furniture and features. Photos are fairly scarce of it, though came across this one:

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/322/newpavingbradford.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2ndwitch/4172871756/

Displays some of the curved paving sets where the streets meet. I guess the new paving isn't bad and it does amend the tarmac problem. I only hope they are reusing the stone they've taken away to replace some of the other paved streets in the centre with this more unified streetscape style. Otherwise it's a waste of good stone. I guess they're moving onto the next streets after the winter sales. Anyone noticed that strip lighting on the pavement? What's that all about?

Also seen another building's set on fire up my end, The Interfaith Education Centre on Listerhills Road:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6978/interfaitheducation005g.jpg

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/4821822.Blaze_rips_through_Interfaith_Centre/

Shocking but not entirely surprising. The second building to go up in flames on this section of road in a little bit more than a year.

ahillyar

January 5th, 2010, 06:45 PM

Probyns stationers which has been on the corner of Ivegate for donkeys years is closing down. They blame falling city centre trade.

They are moving to Halifax Road, Woodside and will function mainly as business to business.

So if you want stationery in Bradford, it's WHSmith as your only option

MarkJF

January 6th, 2010, 10:55 AM

What this article does is to emphasis the enormous potential the city centre and its close surroundings offer. Its hugely frustrating that very little of it is realised.

I was in the centre yesterday, as always I spend some time walking around, I don't know why, morbid curiosity I suppose, whatever, I always find it upsetting. I thought about the article and a comment came back to me, "What we have here is a Victorian Detroit" and how true that is. But, just like modern day Detroit, it is an unstoppable and accelerating decline.

So, sorry Birkyboy it's too late for potential, it's too late to salvage anything.

Baht'at

January 6th, 2010, 10:34 PM

lazygamer

January 7th, 2010, 01:10 AM

The weather has at last brought a major new structure to Bradford:

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/files/bsg/gx-20%20243.preview.JPG

I guess not many people were sitting outside drinking coffee so the Costa staff built a snowman. Indeed a skyscraper snowman.

Most impressive. The Greggs bag is a masterstroke.

In fact I'm most impressed no-one's added two snow 'balls' to the base of it and pointed it in the direction of Westfield.

The Odeon Crusader

January 20th, 2010, 01:08 PM

I am reliably informed that Maud Marshall will conclude her excellent seven years of regeneration progress in Bradford this week...

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7334/maud.jpg

I would like to thank her personally for a job well done. Simply compare the city centre we have now to how it was in 2003 to realise just how far Maud (and BCR) have taken us towards a new and revitalised Bradford. I'm sure you will agree her original £125K per annum salary (that will have increased every year due to inflation and topped up with generous expenses) was worth every penny...

We all need to watch this YouTube film again and wish Maud every success for the future - she will be missed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHTqMBFOHUY&feature=channel

*-City Of Bradford-*

January 23rd, 2010, 08:41 PM

I am reliably informed that Maud Marshall will conclude her excellent seven years of regeneration progress in Bradford this week...

What can I say? Maud has preformed below expectations. The amount of money spent on BCR and the outcome has unfortunately not been value for money. Despite some successful ideas and projects such as the concepts taken from the Master plan, the various developments in Little Germany the strong efforts put in to try and get people to invest in the City Centre, the progress has been limited. Also Yorkshire Forward and BCR's idea of demolishing the Odeon for a 'New Victoria Place' was the final nail in the coffin for the organisation in terms of public support. But I'd like to thank the team at BCR for attempting to try and Save Bradford from its constant decline. I have some good memories of the team and the 'Question and Answer' session which they held. Also I liked the 'Birth of a New City' thing on the Lister Mills tower:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/images/2006/03/08/manningham_mainforhomepage_altcheat203_203x152.jpg

Probably wouldn't be very appropriate now.

I hope the New Regeneration team will have better luck in trying to save Bradford from its constant decline and try to listen to public opinion instead of completely ignoring it.

Dan B

January 24th, 2010, 01:35 AM

Came past Maud in the city centre the other day, dunno if she recognised me from the time I was arguing with her over the demolition of the city centre at one their 'Public Consultation' evenings. Just thought, you've failed us, wonder who's next up to fail us. I don't suppose she'll be staying in Bradford long now the money's up and position gone, along with what I heard was possibly free accommodation in Little Germany (though don't quote me on that one).

In other news noticed this article on a restoration project I've noticed many times on Manor Row but never really knew what was happening with it:

Bank dips into the coffers to back £1.4m plan to create apartments

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6112/courtlr1jpgdisplay.jpg

8:05am Wednesday 20th January 2010

* Comments(2)

By Will Kilner »

A derelict listed building in Bradford city centre is being transformed into apartments in a £1.4 million regeneration project.

Investec, an international specialist banking group, has been praised for deciding to push ahead with the restoration and conversion of the former County Court, at 27 Manor Row, after the original borrower, Bonum Developments, hit difficulties.

The historic building, which has been disused for about a decade, is now being transformed into 14 stylish apartments.

Investec has appointed Bradford-based Solo Construction as the sub-contractor to carry out the work on the property.

John Marriott, a property consultant for Investec, said: “It’s a beautiful, iconic building and it would be a real shame to let it disintegrate.”

With the building’s history in mind, Mr Marriott said Investec had taken on the “moral responsibility” of putting it back into use. He said continuing with a development could sometimes be the best way for a bank to protect its investment.

Darren Ingham, director of Solo Construction, said: “Because of the economic climate, we have seen a lot of construction companies having financial trouble.

“Investec Bank has done Bradford a big favour and it should be commended for its strategy.”

Anthony Sanderson, site manager for Solo Construction, said: “Instead of having it as a derelict building, the bank took the decision to put the funding into converting it into apartments.

We have been set back because of the weather, but now we are really pressing ahead. We are aiming to finish at the end of July.”

Mr Sanderson said a lot of specialist work was needed to restore the building’s historic features, many of which had been exposed to the rain in recent years.

Councillor Adrian Naylor, Bradford Council’s executive member for regeneration, said: “It’s obviously good news for Bradford, especially if we are beginning to see the confidence return in terms of banks being willing to back developments.

“We hope this is the first step in seeing a resurgence in the market.”

The former courthouse, built in 1859, was turned into a pub in 1990, but has been empty since about 2000.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/4860132.Former_Bradford_County_Court_conversion_back_on/

Don't know if this involves the adjoining building called Sub Club or something similar, which also seemed to be under restoration up to a point. Becoming a pub again wouldn't be bad, but I suppose it would be quite a lot more isolated now with the majority of the clubs having moved elsewhere.

Should also mention, besides a gigantic advertising banner for Santander on the side of High Point, there's also now an updated render of the project to renovate the building put up on one side of the building. It doesn't look quite as bad as previously feared, but overall looks pretty cheap and disappointing with lots of white panels and not of the good kind. The first proposal for this really didn't look that bad, it's a shame that one never got going. This will certainly be lowest common denominator architecture and probably worse than the current building. The banner/poster also said it would be new for 2011.

The Odeon Crusader

January 24th, 2010, 11:47 PM

wonder who's next up to fail us.

This is Maud's replacement... from Ireland (via Yorkshire Forward) Barra Mac Ruairi

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8505/barra150pix.jpg

He looks like a real BARRA boy! :lol:

Val Verde

January 28th, 2010, 01:07 PM

From today's Guardian an article praising Bradford (with comments forum for anyone wanting to comment). http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/28/in-praise-bradford

In praise of… Bradford

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2177/3541326031_4174599c81.jpg
The Yorkshire city of Bradford has had a battering lately and lives with a great hole in its heart, where over 500,000 square feet of development have been stalled by recession. It deserves better as a place which led the world for a century in quality woollen textiles – and built a landscape of sandstone industrial palaces to celebrate the fact. Now it leads again with the news that the Yorkshire Building Society, charmed, wooed, and this week betrothed to its counterpart in Chelsea, is to remain firmly based on the ring road, *overlooking the Pennines. In this, the directors have followed the example of their counterparts at Morrisons, who run the country's fourth largest supermarket from Gain Lain, round the back of the Thornbury roundabout. Bradford requires such loyalty to prosper once more, and although its cautious citizens are notorious for always keeping their macs on in case of rain, they often come good in this respect. Sir Titus Salt built an entire suburb round his alpaca mill at Saltaire, which the late Jonathan Silver brilliantly resurrected in the 1990s as an arts and business c*entre. Silver's widow Maggie and brother Robin maintain the business, prosperously and now at the centre of a World Heritage Site, with help in kind from another devoted Bradfordian, David Hockney. Add the Brontë village of Haworth, Ilkley Moor, the National Media Museum and the best curries in Britain, and relocating should be a no-brainer for other firms, especially those *watching the pennies post-recession and fed up with London costs.

Interesting article and whilst Bradford does of course have it's strong points such as Saltaire and Haworth (but with both some distance away from central Bradford they could both be classed as being outside Bradford anyway) surely it does have it's many problems such as a complete failure to regenerate with debacles such as Westfield and the Odeon and not trying to integrate with Leeds imo, social problems such as racism, unemployment and crime and what appears to be a complete lack of action to address such issues.

Surely i'd have thought Bradford has been having problems for a long time (as opposed to just lately) perhaps going back to the 1960s / 1970s whenever the textile industry had started to decline as well as the misguided redevelopment seen in Bradford City Centre at that time (eg: development of the now demolished Broadway, demolition of Kirkgate Market for the Kirkgate Centre and demolition of Exchange station for what is now Bradford Interchange as well as a failure to encourage cross-community cohesion at the time.

Wonder who wrote the article as the article doesn't give any names (someone in Bradford City Council / Regeneration perhaps).

di Livio

January 28th, 2010, 01:50 PM

social problems such as racism, unemployment and crime and what appears to be a complete lack of action to address such issues.

A bit of harsh critique there, Val.
Everyone knows Bradford is a sleeping giant.

di Livio

January 28th, 2010, 02:20 PM

Check out the comments section of that article. There's a real unnecessary hatred of Bradford from some of the posters.

aviator

January 28th, 2010, 02:28 PM

Check out the comments section of that article. There's a real unnecessary hatred of Bradford from some of the posters.

True enough but those poster will be the ones spewing bile after other articles in the Guardian online. And you should read some of the posts in the Times and the Telegraph online.

There are also some positive postings about this article, including one by Martin Wainwright.

MattN

January 28th, 2010, 03:13 PM

Surely i'd have thought Bradford has been having problems...

I honestly couldn't say, certainly an interesting train of thought you had there though! :lol:

As for the rest, I can only repeat what I often find myself saying to certain people these days, poor old Bradford. It's taken some terrible knocks but it still has its glories, constantly rubbing its nose in it won't help matters! Nice to see such an article really.

Val Verde

January 29th, 2010, 05:04 PM

A bit of harsh critique there, Val.
Everyone knows Bradford is a sleeping giant.

Were you being literal or sarcastic di Livio (no flaming intended)?

Whilst I might have been harsh to Bradford in the last post it does seem to be one of those cities which does certainly have issues and seems to have a more negative profile in the national media (although of course Leeds does have similar issues relating to racism, unemployment and crime as well to an extent as most large northern cities do (although there is less overt racism in Leeds as opposed to Bradford imo although there are still issues) and certainly I'd have thought their council had in part failed in their regeneration although Bradford must certainly have a disadvantage in being so close and hence overshadowed by Leeds surely you would have thought Bradford would have made more of it's close proximity to Leeds as opposed to completely struggle if you compare Bradford's development compared with towns and cities in close proximity to Manchester and Birmingham for instance.

I would have thought it would be right to acknowledge that a lot of Bradford's problems does stem back a long time to it's misguided redevelopment of the 1960s as well as the decline of its textile industry though.

*-City Of Bradford-*

January 31st, 2010, 02:22 PM

Yessss! At last!

Big game plans for old building

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/resources/images/1178732/?type=display

A decaying mill building in Bradford city centre is being transformed into a laser tag arena where new infrared technology from the US will be used in Europe for the first time.

Laser Adventures Ltd, which already operates a successful LaserZone centre in Huddersfield, is spending about £200,000 converting Anderson Mills, at 114 Thornton Road, in the Goitside Conservation Area.

Bradfordian Paul Simmonds, the company’s owner, described LaserZone as an exciting laser tag game that uses computer-controlled equipment so players can score points by shooting opponents with infrared beams. He said he was awaiting delivery of a pioneering ZetaBlast system from Advanced Avionics in Michigan, US, which will be the first of its kind to be imported to Europe.

Work is under way to turn the first and second floors of the imposing mill into a professionally-themed, 8,000 square foot laser arena in the style of a maze to allow players to hide from each other.

Mr Simmonds, 38, of Low Moor, said: “We used to have a couple of laser tag centres in Bradford, but they have all shut down.

“Having it over two floors at the new one in Bradford is great because people will have to look above and below for other players, as well as to the sides.

di Livio

January 31st, 2010, 03:40 PM

Were you being literal or sarcastic di Livio (no flaming intended)?

No, I really do think Bradford is a sleeping giant (not sarcastic).

Dan B

January 31st, 2010, 04:52 PM

Yessss! At last!

Noticed that article myself, although I imagine I'll probably never use it, except if me and some friends want to go for some oh so ironic fun (huh-huh-huh). Anyway, this is 114 Thornton Road, good to see a wider range of uses and actual use of one of these buildings in Goitside:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3193/114thorntonroad.jpg

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=BD1+2DX&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bradford+BD1+2DX,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ei=OWtlS54ZiIzSBNDQrckG&ved=0CAkQ8gEwAA&ll=53.793734,-1.761332&spn=0.001866,0.005681&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.793684,-1.761174&panoid=C38mLR7XB8vPpQlHKppcKQ&cbp=12,1.09,,0,-15.41

Only gonna be on two floors though, guess the rest will remain empty unless there's someone else occupying it. Also always noticed a renovation project next door to this one, which you can see if you look right on the google streetview link. The scaffolding's come down and a horrible concrete roof's been added as well as new window frames, but nothing seems to be happening with it and it seems not to have been fitted on the outside. I presumed they were building apartments here, but who knows.

Thought this probably deserved a mentioned:

Company set up to steer Bradford progress transfers responsibilities

10:01am Friday 29th January 2010

* Comments(9)

By Will Kilner »

Today marks the final day of operation for the company set up to drive through Bradford’s regeneration.

After a nine-month handover period, Bradford Centre Regeneration (BCR) has now officially transferred its activities to Bradford Council, bringing an end to the regeneration company’s six-year existence.

Removal men were yesterday loading desks and filing cabinets into a van outside BCR’s offices at Broadway House, Bank Street, Bradford.

The company has played a part in some of Bradford’s most hotly-debated developments, spearheading plans for a mirror-pool City Park and running a designer-developer competition for the redevelopment of the former Odeon cinema.

BCR chief executive Maud Marshall said regeneration would now move into a new phase.

She said: “Over the past months, I have been working closely with BCR’s three key partners – the Council, Yorkshire Forward and the Homes & Communities Agency – to ensure that the priority projects for the regeneration of the city centre continue to progress.

“During my time in Bradford, BCR has successfully put in place a clear strategy of attracting private sector investment and positioning the city, creating a comprehensive regeneration framework.

“I now pass the reins to Barra Mac Ruairi, strategic director of regeneration, and Mike Cowlam, assistant director of regeneration, at the Council and the new team within his department.

“The Council will build on the success of BCR in engaging the private sector in a clear vision for the regeneration of the city, in building strong public/private partnerships, in attracting developer interest, in promoting design quality, and in positioning the city centre regionally, nationally and internationally.”

The Council’s executive member for regeneration, Councillor Adrian Naylor, said: “Following the handover and the hard work that has gone in over the last few years, it’s now time for the people of Bradford to see some of the benefits and part of that is the delivery of the City Park, which is happening now.”

Since its creation in March 2003, BCR has spent more than £35 million of public money on land assembly, property maintenance and infrastructure works. Over that time, the company also had operating costs of about £6m, with salaries accounting for more than £3.5m of that.

Funding partners say public sector investment through BCR has facilitated £180m being invested by the private sector in property development in Bradford. Meanwhile, £340m of private sector commercial property transactions have taken place, £484m of private sector property development has started and schemes totalling a further £711m of investment have been given planning permission.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/4879797.Council_takes_over_city_s_regeneration/

Very much doubt much different will come of this, but it's interesting to note how BCR has changed tactics since it's earlier 'spearheading', now their role was merely to initiate contracts to provide regeneration, rather than actually getting the whole ball rolling which they were previously championed as. It's very easy to adjust your role in a city by changing the nature of your PR courtesy of the T&A, though I think or hope that most people see through this, rather than falling gullible to this variety of truth adjustment.

MattN

February 10th, 2010, 11:51 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8507598.stm Just saw this on the Nottingham Westfield thread, concerning the uses of abandoned building sites at Westfield Bradford, Wellington Place and Holbeck.

aviator

February 11th, 2010, 08:53 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8507598.stm Just saw this on the Nottingham Westfield thread, concerning the uses of abandoned building sites at Westfield Bradford, Wellington Place and Holbeck.

I think this must be part of a piece that was doing the rounds yesterday. There was an item on the BBC's early morning show that contrasted the lack of activity at Westfield Bradford with Wellington Place, the Green Building at the Round Foundry and a development in London, all of which had tried to mitigate the lack of building progress on their sites.

On a more positive note, the footage showed off the talents of the Bradford graffiti artists as well as the splendid Victorian architecture across the road from the site.

Dan B

February 13th, 2010, 07:17 PM

I think this must be part of a piece that was doing the rounds yesterday. There was an item on the BBC's early morning show that contrasted the lack of activity at Westfield Bradford with Wellington Place, the Green Building at the Round Foundry and a development in London, all of which had tried to mitigate the lack of building progress on their sites.

On a more positive note, the footage showed off the talents of the Bradford graffiti artists as well as the splendid Victorian architecture across the road from the site.

Was nice to see the story getting picked up upon in the national media, that lack shot just shows how bad it is, though as posted in the Westfield thread they are now grassing over about half of the site and turning it into a temporary park, or at least they plan to.

Not only do we have an empty site but empty shops as well, more than a 5th of the city centre in fact:

Bradford 'second worst' for empty shop premises

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4725/closedshops38agjpgdispl.jpg

7:00am Thursday 11th February 2010

* Comments(24)

By Will Kilner »

A new study has revealed that Bradford is the second worst city in the country for boarded-up shops, although regeneration chiefs insist the situation is improving.

A report by the Local Data Company, published today at a retail summit hosted by the British Property Federation, shows that 22.5 per cent of shop units in Bradford were vacant at the end of 2009.

Wolverhampton, which has a 23.9 per cent vacancy rate, is the only city in the UK with a higher percentage of empty shops.

The new study comes only a fortnight after Bradford Council released its own statistics showing that 14 per cent of shops in Bradford city centre were vacant in late 2009.

Councillor Adrian Naylor, the Council’s executive member for regeneration, said: “It’s not clear how broadly they (Local Data Company) have done their survey in terms of whether they have taken into account the outlying areas as well as the immediate city centre.

“If we are looking at the city centre, then the indications are quite positive. Studies by our city centre team show that, up to September 2008, we had 55 empty units, which went up to 69 in March 2009, but then came down again by late 2009. We are seeing a reduction from the peak.

“However, until confidence returns to the retail sector for people to open or expand businesses, we are going to be in a similar situation because people have still got to borrow money from the banks and pay business rates.”

Val Summerscales, of Bradford Chamber of Trade, said: “The number of empty units in Bradford does fluctuate from month to month.

“I’m concerned that we are the worst in Yorkshire but, hopefully, the interim measures on the Broadway site will put a bit more positivity back into Bradford.”

Meanwhile, the latest report shows that Keighley is the seventh worst place in Yorkshire for empty shops, with 8.3 per cent of units standing empty, while Skipton has a five per cent vacancy rate.

Across the UK as a whole, vacancies have continued to increase over the last two quarters, although at a lesser rate than before.

According to data collected between July and December 2009, 12.4 per cent of shops stand empty across Great Britain.

Liz Peace, chief executive of the British Property Federation, said: “The fact of the matter is that Brits now do a lot more shopping over the web, so we’re seeing a fundamental re-shaping of high streets.

“The next Government will need to balance cuts in spending with ideas for reinvigorating regions that have suffered from years of under-investment.”

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/5000671.Bradford__second_worst__for_empty_shop_premises/

(Already posted by Sadbrad on the Westfield thread, but thought it was pretty relevant here)

Quite an embarrassing figure and makes me wonder why Bradford didn't qualify for that scheme to make use of empty shop premises by creating art installations, I think Leeds did. Maybe they were using the council's own damage limitation (i.e. lying) figures.

I think this is about the worst case in the city, Rawson Place:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9265/2246347747890250ae3db.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/atoach/2246347747/

Don't think Help The Aged is even open now. Only Smorgasbord remains open as far as I know and that was a more recent fixture and stands on the corner of the street, thus gaining trade from Duke Street. I guess the hideous Rawson Market replacement (practically) on the other side of the road doesn't exactly help. Anyone have photos of the original?

Anyway, noticed some photos posted on flickr of some of the new 'Heritage Streets' that work is currently being done on:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8242/4346668860af5e8ce16eb.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chairman8/4346668860/in/set-72157608004538510/

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7633/4345913037d0ea33e995b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chairman8/4345913037/in/set-72157608004538510/

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3448/4346661212bc92bbb078b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chairman8/4346661212/in/set-72157608004538510/

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2154/434665874037426ef5e3b.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chairman8/4346658740/in/set-72157608004538510/

Not sure what to make of them. I guess it does create a continuous familiar streetscape if a little homogenised. The main benefit is probably the potential reuse of the stone slabs elsewhere on other streets in the city if indeed this is being done, given the introduction of new paving stones set out like small linking streets. There's also the fanning out setts which can look good, but used at a crossroads to create a square of some kind sort of fails given they all go in the same direction. This would tend to work more on a simple straight street with one direction or the other for pedestrian traffic. I would hope the rest of the replaced stone is to be reused as it would be a waste otherwise. Could use it to resurface Kirkgate for a start, a street I thought needed much more attention along with some of the streets on the north end of the city centre. I did also notice that Tyrell Street seems to be noticeably unlevel now, even though it's on a slope I'm sure it was level before the new street works, or at least you didn't notice it. It seems to slope down to a dip somewhere just off the middle of the road whereas it could just be levelled. I don't know if any of that made sense to anyone, not sure if it does to me, hard to describe exactly what I mean.

And now for something completely different...

Will probably never happen now but I stumbled upon this video for the proposed/approved Midland Mills redevelopment showing the collection of buildings that could have arose around there including The Channel. It all just seems preposterous now though:

http://www.ads-designs.com/animation/midlandmills.html

aviator

February 14th, 2010, 12:10 AM

I tell you what, Dan, never mind the situation about the percentage of retail space lying unused. Those pics you've posted show that there is some fantastic architecture in Bradford. Look at the first photo as a great example of what's to be discovered.

di Livio

February 14th, 2010, 08:36 AM

I was in Bradford yesterday and the architectural quality is stunning, even up by North Parade. It's just a shame so many of the facades are covered in grime. With the Park construction, the demolition of the Police HQ and the Southgate development, it's perhaps the first time in my lifetime that Bradford actually looks to be improving. Many of Bradford's new buildings seem to be more attractive than those in Leeds because there is some effort made to build using traditional materials of a decent quality (below).
I came out of the National Media Museum in the afternoon and the domes of the Odeon cinema looked magnificent wedged between the Alhambra and Southgate.

http://cdn.wn.com/ph/img/ed/f9/a7ae0d16da669df3cd554aa16cd5-grande.jpg

LeeT

February 14th, 2010, 05:03 PM

The city does indeed still boast some excellent Victorian architecture. Unfortunately that's about all it has going for it, other than chav watching.

The future looks grim to me. I moved here in 1988 just after the 'Bradford's Bouncing Back' campaign, and I'm still wondering 'when? probably never'.

We can at least thank the Westfield fiasco for not placing us firmly in the No1 spot for empty retail units. If that wasteful project had gone ahead what percentage of the city centre would have been vacant then?
What was the supposed cost of that? £300m or so. If the council regen goons thought there's any way on earth that more empty shops in Bradford could generate £600 profit from every man, woman and child in the city just for the building, let alone the running costs of the centre and it's shops they needed their bumps feeling. Thankfully it doesn't look like it'll happen for the foreseeable future.

I took a wander round town the other day. All was looking forlorn even given the great weather. The bottom of town near the hole was especially depressing. I went into HMV (3 staff, 8 customers), Game (2 staff, 2 customers) and Superdrug (2 staff, 1 customer) and had a quick chat to staff in each. After all they had the time, it wasn't like there was anybody to serve. All confirmed that the area was doing badly but all suggested the repaving is making matters even worse at the moment.

The old Rawson market area does look the worst of all of course where there is a whole row of empty shops, and the near deserted new units opposite. Funny that, the Fish Market was really good.

I'm concerned too for the road where Traffords and Pratts used to be. It's one of the only streets in the centre of town with a fair number of independent shops. It is also the only row which tried to cater for the wealthier shopper. With Pratts and Errick's nearby having gone it's all begun to get a bit grim. It's so heavily geared towards employment agencies in a time when there are and will continue to be fewer and fewer jobs around.

I can't help thinking that Santander will close the Alliance and Leicester too. They don't need 3 branches in the centre and the A&L has poor disabled access and is tiny. If they can get out of the contract and close it they will.

I think we need to think what city centre shops are for. For many young folk they're for comparing products before you go home and order them on the internet for 20% less. Anything else you can buy at the supermarket.

I'm pretty sure it'll be a lot worse next year when spending cuts, higher taxes, unempoyment and increased inflation and falling house prices take their toll. Perhaps we'll see more growth in the pound shop and cheque cashing pawnbroking sector.

I can't help feeling the city centre Park in the Heart and other public realm developments such as new paving and street obstacles (sorry furniture) are just taking spending money from peoples pockets to polish a turd.

I know this post expresses what will be an unpopular sentiment here and that it's is a very pessimistic view. I think many normal folk feel similarly pessimistic too. I wish it were otherwise.

Slightly off topic
What are the chances of the developments around the University/Thornton Rd getting scaled back further now Uni budgets are to be cut?

*-City Of Bradford-*

February 15th, 2010, 12:58 AM

Yes-Bradford seems to have an endless list of problems. But there's nothing I can do, it's up to the Council and its partners. All I/we can do as residents is to actually use the place and support its businesses.

All the rest is not in our hands.

However, this looks EXTREMELY worrying:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=9948&op=13&o=global&view=global&subj=328480505521&id=1732218794#!/group.php?gid=328480505521

Sickening stuff, lots of talks of violence, and even pictures of members holding guns captioned "ready for the muslims". Other comments read ,"we just had a run with the pakis in bradford today again edl bradford will be WW3 no one can miss it.FACT." But they admin have deleted much of the racist comments now, but trust me-there were plenty of threats/extreme stuff.

It's like a new form of terrorism is emerging from the past.

I fear the end of Bradford is coming...Déjà vu 2001.

di Livio

February 15th, 2010, 09:56 AM

I fear the end of Bradford is coming...Déjà vu 2001.

Stop overreacting. The EDL are like a travelling hooligan support, and provided the police handle it well, they can be easily contained.

*-City Of Bradford-*

February 15th, 2010, 12:45 PM

Stop overreacting. The EDL are like a travelling hooligan support, and provided the police handle it well, they can be easily contained.

That's what they said in 2001 :?

ahillyar

February 15th, 2010, 11:04 PM

The repaving is killing off what trade there is left in Bradford. It's been going on for years, still isn't finished and people are getting fed up having to walk through mud and dodge diggers and rubble walking around the shops.

The muck slapped up across Zavvi's windows makes the empty unit even worse than it was already.

Babaloo

February 16th, 2010, 09:49 AM

Apologies if this has already been posted. Quite an upbeat article on Bradford in the Guardian over the weekend:

Bold Bradford

Helen Ochyra spends a weekend in Bradford and finds a city full of bold contradictions

Helen Ochyra
The Guardian

Overshadowed by its bigger, bolder neighbour to the east and somewhere most people have only a vague knowledge of, Bradford is an overlooked destination when it comes to the city break – but it is somewhere that I have always wanted to go.

One of the success stories of the industrial revolution, Bradford was once known as the "wool capital of the world" – a title far more honorific than it now sounds – and thanks to its boom years, has attracted a substantial immigrant community. After London, Bradford has the UK's highest proportion of Muslims and the youngest, fastest-growing population. But despite its multiculturalism – and resulting proliferation of curry houses – in 2009 Bradford was found to be the third most English city in England, boasting one of the country's highest ratios of fish and chip shops per head and large numbers of quintessentially English cricket clubs, Morris dancing troupes and holiday camps.

Thanks to this confusing dichotomy I arrive in Bradford unsure of quite what kind of culture I might find. My first destination is Saltaire, wool baron Titus Salt's vast mill and surrounding planned community. Arriving here, it's hard to imagine quite how revolutionary this place was when it first began to spring up in 1851. At the time this was a quiet rural spot, dissected by the river Aire and the Leeds and Liverpool canal, and representing a real escape from the grime and grit of Bradford's smoke-spewing factories. Although Salt's Mill was the largest factory in Europe in its day, its workers enjoyed a quality of life far superior to their city-based counterparts, living in neat rows of sandstone houses built upwind from the factory to avoid the fumes, with their own hospital, school and educational institute.

Although now sucked into Bradford's urban sprawl, Saltaire remains an idyllic backdrop to a weekend stroll and I spend a couple of hours soaking up the peaceful atmosphere of its well-planned streets. Although uniform in style, the houses vary in size and positioning, reflecting the differing statuses of their occupants. The squat terraced houses on Caroline Street open straight on to the road, indicating their tenants' lower status, while those on Albert Road are semi-detached with space between their front doors and the street. These belonged to the company bigwigs and would have looked out over open countryside – something which is hard to imagine now.

The mill itself remains as Salt built it, complete with Italianate detailing and skyscraping chimney, but with the wool industry all but dead, it has now been put to good use as home to the world's largest collection of David Hockney's work. I knew Hockney as the painter of that regular fixture of art roundup-type books, "A Bigger Splash", but was unaware of the vast spectrum of styles he has employed. I was fascinated to see photo montage, line drawings and even a red metal, abstract postbox created from one of his designs. The mill is an ideal space for exhibiting art, with its high ceilings, large arched windows and almost cathedral-like scale – and there's plenty of room for selling the ubiquitous art postcards too. There's an irony here in how this oh-so-middle-class retail emporium has made its home in such a working-class space and I wonder what Titus might make of what his greatest project has become.

Despite it's postindustrial demise, Saltaire remains a real working town and as I leave the mill I am engulfed in waves of schoolchildren heading home. Battling against the flow I make my way over to Shipley Glen where this area's other main attraction, the Shipley Glen Tramway, is located. This is England's oldest working cable tramway, dating from 1895, and provides a charming excursion through woodland to Trench Wood, the site of Shipley Glen Pleasure Grounds, one of the England's first amusement parks. Nothing remains of it now, but in the late 19th century this was the place to be on a weekend afternoon.

This afternoon, however, it's raining, so I head back into Bradford for what I've been looking forward to all day: a curry. Thanks to its huge Pakistani contingent, Bradford is known for its myriad high-quality curry houses and I'm spoilt for choice. I've heard good things about Omar Khan's and I'm not disappointed. It's a welcoming place with that warm glow Indian restaurants specialise in, with their customary curry-orange walls, red tablecloths and plush but old-fashioned carpets. Although I'm dining alone I can't resist ordering all the trimmings and end up with a table groaning with copious metal dishes and drooped with the largest naan bread I've ever seen. Everything is delicious and although it may not be the best curry I've ever eaten, it would certainly make the leaderboard.

Fully sated I head back out into the cold with a spicy glow to keep me warm and make my way to the part of town I'm told retains the lion's share of the city's Victorian buildings. But Little Germany is not only home to row upon row of grand 19th-century warehouses, it is also the location of a thoroughly modern theatre.

Bradford Playhouse is leading the city's charge on the art world. Open to all comers, this multistory space hosts exhibitions, installations, performances and everything in between by whoever wants to produce them. Volunteer Aid Todd says that their philosophy is: "Whatever your thing is, come here and do it" – and they are. On any given night any number of different events can be taking place in venues as diverse as the white-walled basement bar and the 1930s 290-seat auditorium. Anyone can produce art here and this openness has led to an incredibly avant-garde eclecticism which celebrates the cutting edge and pushes the boundaries of art further than most places dare.

Back in November, dancer Rita Marcalo outraged many with her 24-hour performance, Involuntary Dances, during which she sat in a cage in the bar and attempted to induce an epileptic fit. It didn't work, but the reaction was fierce and by staging it the Playhouse proved they were indeed "serious about embracing anything".

Their critics have been vocal but one thing's for sure, in the last three months more people have visited the Playhouse than they did when local am dram groups held it in their grip. Creative director Eleanor Barrett says: "They used to get audiences of five on a Saturday night – now it can be 300! All we did was give it back to the people."

Art of a slightly more traditional persuasion is on my agenda the next day as I head to Bradford's must-visit attraction, the National Media Museum. This is the most visited museum outside of London, and one I've wanted to explore for some time. Arranged over seven floors, the museum provides a fantastic overview of film and television with its interactive displays. I am particularly absorbed by the Experience TV exhibition, which charts the art form's history and shows visitors the most watched and most iconic moments ever screened. I find myself moved by the Berlin Wall coming down, smiling at the lifting of the World Cup by Bobby Moore and reduced almost to tears by the twin towers crumbling – all testament to the extraordinary power of television and its ability to record our history so much better than anything that's come before.

Also on this floor is an outpost of BBC Leeds where you can watch journalists at work, and several fake studio sets including one where you can have a go at reading the news and another where you can stand in front of computer-generated backdrops including Downing Street and Coronation Street. Predictably this is the busiest part of the museum so I retreat to the sixth floor to daydream over the collection of David Puttnam's awards, including his best picture Oscar for Chariots of Fire.

Some may question Bradford's right to be home to this national museum, but the city has cultural watchdog Unesco on its side and last year beat such celluloid icons as Cannes and LA to be awarded the prestigious title Unesco City of Film. It may not scream about its filmic legacy but Bradford has been quietly making classic movies and churning out famous screen names for decades, including such greats as Michael Rennie, Timothy West, Mollie Sugden and, more recently, Slumdog Millionaire screenwriter Simon Beaufoy.

With the nod from Unesco came a new lease of life for Bradford, and the opportunity to show the world what it's been hiding: a vibrant cultural side. Now's the time to discover it.

More places to visit in Bradford

• Ten-minute treat

Drop into the Sweet Centre (106 Lumb Lane, Bradford) for a speedy Indian breakfast of mild spiced chickpeas (choley) and start the day with a warm curry-induced glow.

• Lunchtime challenge

Step back in time with a ride on the 1950s-themed Keighley and Worth Valley Railway and try to guess just how many films and TV shows it's appeared in (hint: one is The Railway Children).

• Night out

Wow your eyes and confuse your brain with a 3D Imax film at the Media Museum. Current films include Journey to Mecca, which tells the story of Ibn Battuta, ocean epic Deep Sea, and box-office hit Avatar.

:)

di Livio

February 16th, 2010, 10:46 AM

^^
Yeah, I read that in the Guardian on Saturday. Helen doesn't appear to be the brightest button in the box, but it's good publicity for Bradford.

*-City Of Bradford-*

February 16th, 2010, 09:55 PM

Was in one of the Holiday Express Meeting rooms last week, slightly impeded view of the City Centre.

Eastbrook Hall:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4357155077_f5b7a66877_b.jpg

Eastbrook Hall, Westfield Hole and Valley Parade:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2716/4357155071_71eb89850c_b.jpg

Law Courts, Highpoint and all the rest:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4017/4357155065_a07f3a4f1b_b.jpg

silverstealth

February 20th, 2010, 06:37 PM

Noticed that article myself, although I imagine I'll probably never use it, except if me and some friends want to go for some oh so ironic fun (huh-huh-huh). Anyway, this is 114 Thornton Road, good to see a wider range of uses and actual use of one of these buildings in Goitside:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3193/114thorntonroad.jpg

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=BD1+2DX&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bradford+BD1+2DX,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ei=OWtlS54ZiIzSBNDQrckG&ved=0CAkQ8gEwAA&ll=53.793734,-1.761332&spn=0.001866,0.005681&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.793684,-1.761174&panoid=C38mLR7XB8vPpQlHKppcKQ&cbp=12,1.09,,0,-15.41

Only gonna be on two floors though, guess the rest will remain empty unless there's someone else occupying it. Also always noticed a renovation project next door to this one, which you can see if you look right on the google streetview link. The scaffolding's come down and a horrible concrete roof's been added as well as new window frames, but nothing seems to be happening with it and it seems not to have been fitted on the outside. I presumed they were building apartments here, but who knows.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/114%20thornton%20road/andersonhouseexteriorsm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/114%20thornton%20road/114thorntonroadpillarssm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/114%20thornton%20road/114thorntonroadsm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/114%20thornton%20road/114thorntonroadwinchsm.jpg

I took these March 2009.

http://bradfordinfocus.fotopic.net/c1669156.html Here today, gone tomorrow.

Dan B

February 24th, 2010, 12:55 PM

^ Are those the first two floors of that building? Do you think they'd be sympathetic to the design and layout of the mill's internal space or just pile on through with the usual Lazer Quest 'furnishings'?

I tell you what, Dan, never mind the situation about the percentage of retail space lying unused. Those pics you've posted show that there is some fantastic architecture in Bradford. Look at the first photo as a great example of what's to be discovered.

True, but there's only so much waiting around for discoveries you can do. You should also see the opposite side of the street, the Rawson Market rebuild, horrendous.

I was in Bradford yesterday and the architectural quality is stunning, even up by North Parade. It's just a shame so many of the facades are covered in grime. With the Park construction, the demolition of the Police HQ and the Southgate development, it's perhaps the first time in my lifetime that Bradford actually looks to be improving. Many of Bradford's new buildings seem to be more attractive than those in Leeds because there is some effort made to build using traditional materials of a decent quality (below).
I came out of the National Media Museum in the afternoon and the domes of the Odeon cinema looked magnificent wedged between the Alhambra and Southgate.

http://cdn.wn.com/ph/img/ed/f9/a7ae0d16da669df3cd554aa16cd5-grande.jpg

It's a massive shame the council are so hell bent on getting rid of The Odeon, it is now framed perfectly. Seems they want more of the glass boxes with a twist than the Art Deco duo currently in place.

Also I wouldn't say that Thomas Cook building is a good example. Take a close look at the building materials, it's just a poor imitation of the old stone used in this town, not sure what it replaced either.

I took a wander round town the other day. All was looking forlorn even given the great weather. The bottom of town near the hole was especially depressing. I went into HMV (3 staff, 8 customers), Game (2 staff, 2 customers) and Superdrug (2 staff, 1 customer) and had a quick chat to staff in each. After all they had the time, it wasn't like there was anybody to serve. All confirmed that the area was doing badly but all suggested the repaving is making matters even worse at the moment.

I can't help feeling the city centre Park in the Heart and other public realm developments such as new paving and street obstacles (sorry furniture) are just taking spending money from peoples pockets to polish a turd.

I'd probably agree that the street repaving work is having a negative effect at the moment, though the way I see it is it being a temporary inconvenience in the long run. I don't know how much of a correlation there is between a good public realm and a successful high street, but I guess it helps, not sure if it could give it that big a push though, lowering rents might just help out too. I guess after these initial streets, other streets like Kirkgate that have much worse paving jobs at the minute might get the same treatment hopefully using the stone slabs that have been taken away and replaced by the new 'street' layout. It seems they're doing the last few now of the initial run. Doubtlessly cause further difficulties elsewhere, though they have managed it in such a way that it still allows for pedestrian traffic flows, 'spose if they could just quicken the pace a bit, though I don't claim to know the difficulty of the work.

In terms of the City Park, it's just not a Park, far too much paving, with a 'pool' far larger than it needs to be, two of the greens being removed and engulfed as a result.

The old Rawson market area does look the worst of all of course where there is a whole row of empty shops, and the near deserted new units opposite. Funny that, the Fish Market was really good.

Does anyone have any pictures of what the old market looked like before they did away with the vast majority of it? Also why exactly? I never quite understood the situation with that building, wasn't there some long disagreement about it?

I'm pretty sure it'll be a lot worse next year when spending cuts, higher taxes, unempoyment and increased inflation and falling house prices take their toll. Perhaps we'll see more growth in the pound shop and cheque cashing pawnbroking sector.

I know this post expresses what will be an unpopular sentiment here and that it's is a very pessimistic view. I think many normal folk feel similarly pessimistic too. I wish it were otherwise.

God, find me a noose:lol:. It's probably true though and I don't want to know what the next year looks like financially, spending cuts along with higher taxes sounds a pretty raw deal, but ultimately there's little choice, B Town wont be fairing to well though I imagine.

Your post has been quite enlightening and interesting over all, I think a lot of people here recognise the problems with Bradford and don't walk around wearing rose tinted spectacles all too often like certain Guardian journalists.

Slightly off topic
What are the chances of the developments around the University/Thornton Rd getting scaled back further now Uni budgets are to be cut?

I think they already have, the build quality on the refurbishment of the Communal Building (Student Union) on University Campus is appalling, and looks to have been value costed from the initial renders which promised a nice, clean design overall. What we're getting is grey window frames with varying shades of green and blue cladding in between the windows. The glass atrium also looks pathetically cheap.

Should post more on this hopefully with photos on the University/College thread when I get time.

Yes-Bradford seems to have an endless list of problems. But there's nothing I can do, it's up to the Council and its partners. All I/we can do as residents is to actually use the place and support its businesses.

All the rest is not in our hands.

However, this looks EXTREMELY worrying:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=9948&op=13&o=global&view=global&subj=328480505521&id=1732218794#!/group.php?gid=328480505521

Sickening stuff, lots of talks of violence, and even pictures of members holding guns captioned "ready for the muslims". Other comments read ,"we just had a run with the pakis in bradford today again edl bradford will be WW3 no one can miss it.FACT." But they admin have deleted much of the racist comments now, but trust me-there were plenty of threats/extreme stuff.

It's like a new form of terrorism is emerging from the past.

I fear the end of Bradford is coming...Déjà vu 2001.

Thankfully it's not going ahead now:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/5023292.EDL_cancels_rally_after_leader_arrested/

Apologies if this has already been posted. Quite an upbeat article on Bradford in the Guardian over the weekend:

:)

I don't mind positive aspects being found in Bradford but not articles where they seem entirely one sided, almost just to promote the city, or alternatively just endlessly criticise it. I think some balance is required in more of these articles, weighing out the pros and cons and acknowledging them, so we don't just end up with completely polarised articles on the same city, which would make the place out to be two completely different cities. Journalists will be journalists, either with their own or the paper's agenda, I'd just like to see a little more honesty and/or a little less myopia.

silverstealth

February 26th, 2010, 11:52 PM

They are the top 2 floors.. When I met the chaps converting it they appeared to have a real interest in the building.

silverstealth

February 27th, 2010, 12:06 AM

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/bradford%20postcards%20sm/rawsonmarketjuly1899sm-1.jpg

Rawson Market, July 1899

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/bradford%20postcards%20sm/markethallbradford1905watermark.jpg

1905

Dan B

February 28th, 2010, 02:30 PM

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/bradford%20postcards%20sm/rawsonmarketjuly1899sm-1.jpg

Rawson Market, July 1899

So was this the frontage along John Street or Rawson Place? I know that part of this still remains in the form of the former Rawson Hotel, now some fireworks distributor, or at least it was. Can't tell where exactly it would adjoin on to though. I note the similar looking entrance on the left side of the elevation, but that could be another with the present remaining door being hidden from view on the plan. Hard to tell with basically two dimensional drawings. I might immediately think it was the John Street frontage, though the rest of the building along there also looks relatively old, sandstone, darkened features, not a great deal of design features, but a relatively good quality build (with some more modern additions courtesy of The Rawson Quarter), unless they did actually put some effort in here:

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/1610/johnstreetrawsonplace.jpg

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.795925,-1.757082&spn=0,359.99929&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=53.795925,-1.757082&panoid=VDV9-8dBBBp18LZFg6KIvg&cbp=13,98.57,,0,-9.36

This in comparison to the inexcusable frontage along Rawson Place:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/450/rawsonquarter.jpg

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.796309,-1.756076&spn=0,359.99929&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=53.796309,-1.756076&panoid=UEfRlmGcVDMiZwhbIcIfGw&cbp=13,187.21,,0,-14.04

This by the way to those not in the know is the opposite side of the street to the row of architecturally accomplished yet abandoned buildings with all but one To Let. Purely in terms of architecture, the Ying to its Yang.

So how did this come into being? Was the old market building the subject of a fire as usual?

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/bradford%20postcards%20sm/markethallbradford1905watermark.jpg

1905

A massive shame as always. Is there a reason all the shop fronts seem to be bricked up on this illustration?

silverstealth

March 1st, 2010, 01:44 AM

I think the shop fronts were bricked up in the illustration because the postcard was probably created at the point of build prior to the shops being let.

I dated it 1905 because that is when is was posted, but the card could have been around for years..

Here is another crying shame..

St Andrews Vicarage, Lister hills, Bradford.

Built in 1853 to the design of James Mallinson, at one point the church now a burn't out shell housed bells provided by Pott's and Son's Leeds.

The vicarage although a crumbling wreck of a place still retains some of its Victorian Features..

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/standrewsplacecarsm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/standrewscharredsm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/standrewsandviceragelisterhills1sm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/standrewschurchfiresm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/standrewsvicaragebuilt1858sm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/standrewsvicarageupstairssm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/bradfordchurchupstairslanding26thfe.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/bradfordchurchhousestairs26thfeb201.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/bradfordchurchhouseparlour26thfeb20.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/st%20andrews%20listerhills/fireplace1sm.jpg

The Odeon Crusader

March 2nd, 2010, 05:27 PM

Some answers to questions about Rawson Market.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/1610/johnstreetrawsonplace.jpg

Here's the original John Street frontage as seen from the same angle...

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8725/dsc03308i.jpg

Unfortunately, this section of Rawson Market was bomb damaged by the Germans in August 1940 during the Second World War...

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2709/dsc03310i.jpg

The Odeon Crusader

March 2nd, 2010, 06:12 PM

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/bradford%20postcards%20sm/markethallbradford1905watermark.jpg

This is actually the Darley Street corner of the original Kirkgate Market!!!

*-City Of Bradford-*

March 3rd, 2010, 07:00 PM

Unfortunately, this section of Rawson Market was bomb damaged by the Germans in August 1940 during the Second World War...

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2709/dsc03310i.jpg

They bombed Bradford?! http://www.imbruglia-inside.com/smiley_shocked.gif

Yeah, it isn't a major link for railways and it is more ''appropriate'' but they could've easily still used half of the exchange still or just spaced out the number of tracks, I spose the law court isn't bad looking, but yeah the interchange is atrocious, they've tried to pretty it up a bit with some traditional paint and flower boxes but it doesn't really make up for it. I found some revamp designs for it though dating from 2004, doesn't look too special though:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7785/bradprefplan800tv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3/bradprefelevs800qa4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Has this been scraped then?

Dan B

March 3rd, 2010, 08:15 PM

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8725/dsc03308i.jpg

Unfortunately, this section of Rawson Market was bomb damaged by the Germans in August 1940 during the Second World War...

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2709/dsc03310i.jpg

God, another fantastic building in Bradford now sadly gone. Did it get demolished straight away after the war or during it? Does anyone know when the current building on that stretch dates from? Also wondering what existed on the North Parade side.

Thanks for the clarification Odeon Crusader.

They bombed Bradford?! http://www.imbruglia-inside.com/smiley_shocked.gif

It was World War II. What did you expect?

Has this been scraped then?

Dunno, don't really care for it, looks horrendous.

jpaul81

March 3rd, 2010, 08:49 PM

They bombed Bradford?! http://www.imbruglia-inside.com/smiley_shocked.gif

Has this been scraped then?

Unfortunately the Department for Transport refused Metro's application for funding if i remember right.

I agree the interchange is a joke for a city of Bradford's size. It may only be small-medium but there is no reason why it can't be made into decent enough station. like Dan B suggests the platforms could be spaced out a bit. Maybe a new roof, shops, cafe etc.. to bring it in line with other smallish but busy stations. I always thought the interchange was a wasted oppertunity considering the footfall it generates..

Dan B

March 3rd, 2010, 11:19 PM

Unfortunately the Department for Transport refused Metro's application for funding if i remember right.

I agree the interchange is a joke for a city of Bradford's size. It may only be small-medium but there is no reason why it can't be made into decent enough station. like Dan B suggests the platforms could be spaced out a bit. Maybe a new roof, shops, cafe etc.. to bring it in line with other smallish but busy stations. I always thought the interchange was a wasted oppertunity considering the footfall it generates..

When I was saying about spacing out the tracks I was referring to what could've been done with the old Exchange Station, maybe including the bus station under one of the two massive trainstation arches. Obviously can't be done now though. Ultimately agree on a new roof and shops etc. This'd need to be a good quality overhaul, otherwise it's just not worth doing and I think that proposal shown above would indeed make the station look worse. Like a cheap tin shed basically. It may be a more major station, but I see New Street in Birmingham is getting quite the impressive redesign, might be nice to see something similar in Bradford, though obviously the concept of linking up or indeed building a new central station on the Westfield site is often being championed, though don't know what current transport funding can do for us.

MattN

March 4th, 2010, 12:53 AM

jpaul81

March 4th, 2010, 08:49 PM

When I was saying about spacing out the tracks I was referring to what could've been done with the old Exchange Station, maybe including the bus station under one of the two massive trainstation arches. Obviously can't be done now though. Ultimately agree on a new roof and shops etc. This'd need to be a good quality overhaul, otherwise it's just not worth doing and I think that proposal shown above would indeed make the station look worse. Like a cheap tin shed basically. It may be a more major station, but I see New Street in Birmingham is getting quite the impressive redesign, might be nice to see something similar in Bradford, though obviously the concept of linking up or indeed building a new central station on the Westfield site is often being championed, though don't know what current transport funding can do for us.

I agree Bradford would unlikely get funding for a new central station, so a revamp of the interchange would seem the only realistic option.

To be honest think i would settle for a station the just felt more like a proper train station rather than a tin shed that looks worse than most suburban stations.

jpaul81

March 4th, 2010, 08:55 PM

New Street is one of the most important hubs in the country, and is also massively under-capacity, hence the large central government funding. It's not just to make it look nice. You just can't compare it with Bradford Interchange in any respect I'm afraid.

I think your being a little harsh. Bradford interchange (train station) has an annual passenger usage of around 2 million, so it is still relatively important on a regional level although abviously not in the same league as new street and other mainline hubs.

MattN

March 4th, 2010, 11:14 PM

jpaul81

March 5th, 2010, 09:21 PM

I'm not being harsh, I'm just being realistic, you can't make a case for funding any upgrade of Bradford by drawing parallels with New Street. New Street is essentially at the crossroads of the nation's rail network with 13 platforms and over 17 million passengers a year. It has been established that it needs a rebuild in order to be able to cope with the demands placed on it, whereas the only complaint being levelled against Bradford Interchange is that it could look a bit nicer. Bradford isn't a rail hub at all, bar a few people that might walk across to Forster Square. You just can't compare them.

I acknowledge that Bradford interchange is in a completely differant category to mainline hubs like New street and leeds city.

However it sits on a key leeds-manchester corridor (important enough for network rail to spend 8 million on the mill lane junction to cut journey times) and is Bradford's principal station after all. I don't think it would be unreasonable to spend 2 or 3 million making the station look respectable - a fraction of the hundreds of millions that will no doubt be spent on New street.

And don't forget the station will host the new Grand Northen Bradford - Kings cross service later this year so capacity may become an issue depending on the success of that service.

Harpal

March 5th, 2010, 09:57 PM

Just wanted to give an update on the city park. Found some images from www.bradford.gov.uk/citypark (http://www.bradford.gov.uk/citypark)
http://www.cityparkbradford.co.uk/photos/march_2010/2010_03_04.jpg
You can see that the Southgate complex in the corner has topped out. Im glad that half of the old police station, which I feel is an eyesore has gone. I personally can't wait for the Odeon to also be given the same treatment as long as its replaced with something of architectural merit. Does anyone know if the other half of the old police HQ will be demolished?
Something thats also interesting is some artefacts that Yorkshire Water has found at the city park site, which includes these cool looking lion heads, hopefully they will be put on display somewhere.http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C62AC8F7-F5F7-48C5-8FB5-3A0A88960D4F/0/LionHeads.JPG

Dan B

March 5th, 2010, 10:55 PM

I acknowledge that Bradford interchange is in a completely differant category to mainline hubs like New street and leeds city.

However it sits on a key leeds-manchester corridor (important enough for network rail to spend 8 million on the mill lane junction to cut journey times) and is Bradford's principal station after all. I don't think it would be unreasonable to spend 2 or 3 million making the station look respectable - a fraction of the hundreds of millions that will no doubt be spent on New street.

Problem with only £2m - £3m being spent on it would be that it'd likely look like that proposal on the previous page which is pretty awful. I'd happily wait until there's something really good being proposed as opposed to what we can afford. Imagine it'll be a long waiting time.

Just wanted to give an update on the city park. Found some images from www.bradford.gov.uk/citypark (http://www.bradford.gov.uk/citypark)

You can see that the Southgate complex in the corner has topped out. Im glad that half of the old police station, which I feel is an eyesore has gone. I personally can't wait for the Odeon to also be given the same treatment as long as its replaced with something of architectural merit. Does anyone know if the other half of the old police HQ will be demolished?
Something thats also interesting is some artefacts that Yorkshire Water has found at the city park site, which includes these cool looking lion heads, hopefully they will be put on display somewhere.

Welcome to the forum.

We do have a thread on City Park:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=685300&page=9

Post anything on the subject there, there's a few threads on the various projects up and down these pages, have a look out for them, just so you know.

There's an even more recent shot taken today from the webcam, looks like most of the rubble's already almost gone.

Can't agree with you on the Odeon, if it goes we'll be regretting it for half a century or more, and in the meantime we'll have yet another patch of rubble in the city centre. Check this thread as to whether something of architectural merit will replace it:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=720360&page=6

I think the answer is no.

The other half of the Police Station will eventually be demolished if a second phase of the city park involving building a business district around it ever materialises.

Interesting stone ornaments there, wonder what former building they came from?

The Odeon Crusader

March 6th, 2010, 05:51 PM

Just wanted to give an update on the city park. Found some images from www.bradford.gov.uk/citypark (http://www.bradford.gov.uk/citypark)
http://www.cityparkbradford.co.uk/photos/march_2010/2010_03_04.jpg

Very interesting image... here's the same area being redeveloped way back in August 1969 - almost from the same angle:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7228/dsc03318w.jpg

I'd be surprised if 40 years pass before the area is regenerated again to remove all traces of the City Park when history eventually proves it was a bad mistake...

ahillyar

March 8th, 2010, 11:57 PM

Most of that Interchange scheme seemed to be based on providing a level link from bus to train bceause some people are too lazy to get off a bus, go downstairs and then back upstairs to get on a train.

All they need to do is give the platform area a clean up and a lick of paint. Concourse side is near enough ok really.

*-City Of Bradford-*

March 14th, 2010, 11:29 PM

Might you have any further images or information on the project?

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs154.snc3/18173_1373452179547_1329065992_1030755_1163688_n.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs134.snc3/18173_1373452139546_1329065992_1030754_3078264_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs134.snc3/18173_1373456059644_1329065992_1030759_4050353_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs254.ash1/18173_1373452219548_1329065992_1030756_2467133_n.jpg

Launch Party was on Saturday in Centenary Square.

Dan B

March 15th, 2010, 06:22 PM

Launch Party was on Saturday in Centenary Square.

When and where did you quote me from? I honestly can't remember when I posted that.

Coincidently I was looking to post about this after seeing an article about how the plan for the new youth centre had the financial backing now to start:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/5058036.Mill_youth_centre_gets___5m_boost/

The planning application is approved as well so it should start sometime soon.

Do you have any bigger images of those designs that you could repost? Couldn't see them on the planning application.

Managed to get these from the planning application and a YEP article:

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/4316/th11211200937005copy.jpg

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/businessnews/Derelict-mill-be-turned.5819108.jp

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9536/millymca3.jpg

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9752/millymca1.jpg

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/96/millymca2.jpg

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8180/millymcasideelevation.jpg

http://www.planning4bradford.com/online-applications/propertyDetails.do?activeTab=relatedCases&keyVal=005FNZDHLI000

Bit of a strange design at the back I have to say, though if it ultimately leads to the retention and continued use of the mill at the front it can't be a bad thing, and possibly injecting some fun into the more dour and grandiose nature of the older Bradford buildings.

Dan B

March 15th, 2010, 07:51 PM

Also news on the rounding up of the streetscape works at the end of next month:

First phase of Bradford city centre heritage project nearing completion

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/454/pavementlr3jpgdisplay.jpg

9:39am Monday 15th March 2010

* Comments(5)

By Will Kilner »

A £1.6 million programme to improve streets in Bradford city centre is due to be finished by the end of next month, the Council has revealed.

The first phase of the Heritage Streets Project, focusing on Tyrrel Street, Bank Street and Hustlergate, started in March 2009 and is now nearing completion.

The scheme has involved the resurfacing of streets with natural stone paving, the installation of new street furniture and the creation of three new public squares for shoppers to enjoy.

Councillor Anne Hawkesworth, Bradford Council’s executive member for environment, said: “The majority of paving work on Tyrrel Street, Bank Street, Hustlergate and New Market Place is now complete, although we still need to repave at the bottom end of Piece Hall Yard, where it reaches Hustlergate, and the section of Hustlergate behind Goldsmiths.

“Other outstanding works include constructing a granite seating plinth around the base of the lighting column in New Market Place, installing three below-ground electrical sockets for the outdoor markets, new signs, painting of street furniture and cabling and commissioning of the automatic bollards.”

Part of Kirkgate at the bottom of the shopping centre has also been dug up. Coun Hawkesworth said the work, near McDonalds, would allow an automatic bollard to be installed. Six more bollards are being installed on nearby streets.

Coun Hawkesworth said: “This will be a physical means of stopping vehicles entering the pedestrian precinct outside certain allotted times. There will be no further works taking place on Kirkgate. We hope to complete all work by the end of April.”

The work is being carried out by Birse Civils, the Tadcaster-based contractor that is also constructing the City Park, on the other side of Centenary Square. As part of the Heritage Streets Project, workers had to re-waterproof the culvert of the Bradford Beck, which runs beneath Tyrrel Street.

When they exposed the beck at the end of last year, they found urgent repairs were needed to the concrete on the culvert roof.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/5061352.Upgrade_for_streets_is_all_sett_/

Looks as though they aren't actually going to continue with the rest of the pedestrian streets, which I thought they would've used the removed stone slabs to pave. Perhaps they're taking a respite to minimise the continuous period of disruption. Given some other spots seem to have been repaved in very similar lower quality paving to what was there before, it's a shame they aren't pushing for the whole or most of the centre to be paved in this higher quality style, and don't know what will now become of those removed slabs. It would at least be nice to see Kirkgate given the same treatment linking up the currently broken connection between Darley Street and Bank Street which have both been done in the same new design.

*-City Of Bradford-*

March 15th, 2010, 08:22 PM

When and where did you quote me from? I honestly can't remember when I posted that.

Back on page 65...

Do you have any bigger images of those designs that you could repost?

Nope. I stole those from photos from Facebook. I actually have got back on teack with my involvement with this project, but I've had to stop once again. Don't you just hate exams http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/smilies/angry_smiley.gif

The Odeon Crusader

March 16th, 2010, 01:52 PM

Very interesting column written by COB in the new edition of Community Pride that plopped through my letterbox like a wet turd this morning... I say interesting because he states he wants to join the new regeneration team headed by Barra Boy (the new Maud, and apparently 100 times worse than her)!!!

You are a young guy, COB and you are taking your education aspirations quite seriously. Please do not allow yourself to be associated with the failures of Bradford's laughable regeneration.

Just because half of the Tyrls cop shop has been pulled down and "work is gathering pace" on the City Park, the benchmark of a true successful city centre regeneration is public endorsement and support.

The team you hope to join do not have that - they are endlessly derided by the Bradford public.

ahillyar

March 16th, 2010, 08:14 PM

Talking about continuous disruption, YEDL have this week dug up part of Darley Street presumably for electrical works, parking trucks on the new precinct, rubble piled up everywhere etc, so Bradford's permanent building site continues.

LeeT

March 19th, 2010, 07:21 AM

Odeon Crusader - great photo of the 1969 development work. Thanks. The removal of half the police station has improved the view approaching the bottom end of great Horton Road. I quite like it.

Sorry, I have no camera so no photo from me I'm afraid.

Dan B further up on this page with reference to a facelift for the Interchange you said

'I'd happily wait until there's something really good being proposed as opposed to what we can afford'.

Are you sure? That sounds like Council think. Surely an affordable tin of paint is better than a grand design accompanied by a financial black hole?

I hope I got the wrong end of your stick and that's not what you meant.

The Odeon Crusader 'the new regeneration team......are endlessly derided by the Bradford public'. Haha.....too right.

ahillyar 'so Bradford's permanent building site continues'. Yes, but the obstacles have been moved to keep the street scene fresh and interesting.

Dan B

March 19th, 2010, 04:35 PM

Dan B further up on this page with reference to a facelift for the Interchange you said

'I'd happily wait until there's something really good being proposed as opposed to what we can afford'.

Are you sure? That sounds like Council think. Surely an affordable tin of paint is better than a grand design accompanied by a financial black hole?

I hope I got the wrong end of your stick and that's not what you meant.

I meant that based on that design posted on the other page, I'd really not have something like that put up, which I think looks worse than the current building. I wouldn't be against a bit of station beautification in the form of redecoration if it did look decent. I would much prefer a better looking station to the one we have now, though the practicalities are only too apparent, and as you say we could end up with further financial black holes. I suppose on that basis I might argue for another site that would (I hope) cause little disruption when the new one was being built. Trainstations aren't exactly the best buildings to simply renovate as they're used on an almost non stop basis. Probably the two saddest words in the dictionary, but if only they hadn't demolished Exchange Station and divided it in two to become a train and bus hub. No chance in that now though. We had grand stations in the past and it looks were doomed to have pathetic ones from now until the future.

Also spotted an article on the Kirkgate Shopping Centre coming into criticism for its external appearance:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/220/kirgatems21jpgdisplay.jpg

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/5068122.Shopping_centre_looks__absolute_disgrace_/

Which is very true, it's hideous, but I'm guessing the city has very little money for aesthetics right now. Tin of paint anyone?

ahillyar

March 19th, 2010, 08:20 PM

Also spotted an article on the Kirkgate Shopping Centre coming into criticism for its external appearance:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/220/kirgatems21jpgdisplay.jpg

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/5068122.Shopping_centre_looks__absolute_disgrace_/

Which is very true, it's hideous, but I'm guessing the city has very little money for aesthetics right now. Tin of paint anyone?

In the comments, people have noticed that the interior isn't that great either with the one of the flagship stores, WHSmith's looking very tired and scruffy and seemingly having a permanent staff shortage.

LeeT

March 20th, 2010, 02:43 AM

I arrived in Bradford 1988 so never saw the old Exchange Station. I can't help but agree it would be preferable to keep one central station. I also don't much like the designs on the other page.
The Birdcage or Birds Nest or whatever it was called bar in the interchange was always interesting for a 'cultural experience'. Thank God that's gone at least.

The Kirkgate does look like some architect made a scale model in cardboard with it's skin stripped off to reveal the corrugation, had no inspiration for a final cladding and so went with that. It really is ugly. I can't help being cynical and think Caddick are just touting for business though. If all we can afford is a tin of paint maybe we can get some of the primary schools involved in painting the Kirkgate. When they've done with painting the hoardings round the 'hole' of course.

ahillyar

March 21st, 2010, 01:51 AM

One cheapo feature of the Kirkgate is how only 2 sides have the latest 'Kirkgate Shopping' branding, the other 2 entrances still have the old K K K K K signs from decades ago.

mark*ie

March 21st, 2010, 08:21 PM

*-City Of Bradford-*

March 21st, 2010, 09:37 PM

From the Daily Telegraph,
"Bradford: Britain's worst tourism city 'dangerous, ugly and boring'

Link below,...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/7476314/Bradford-Britains-worst-tourism-city-dangerous-ugly-and-boring.html

I'm sick of Bradford always getting a bad press! It's not the greatest place in the world, but it's no worse than any other city of it's size.

And this survey... a travelodge survey of 5000 people. Lets face it, most people don't think much of Bradford and these 5000 people probably have never been here before. And It's quite rich coming from Travelodge, hardly the worlds best hotel....

lazygamer

March 21st, 2010, 10:30 PM

To be fair to Travelodge:

"We live in a world of misconceptions, and often don't realise it," said Travelodge spokeswoman Shakila Ahmed. ''A significant proportion of the images of cities we have in our minds may be biased, out of date and not in tune with reality.''

I don't think they're selling the survey as a 'where not to go' list, even if that is how it will be seen (newspapers love the bottom 10 of any list much more than the top 10).

Leeds No.1

March 22nd, 2010, 04:13 AM

I'm sick of Bradford always getting a bad press! It's not the greatest place in the world, but it's no worse than any other city of it's size.

Well, think about this a bit though. I think Bradford has a lot of potential, but I think it is worse than other comparable cities.

I mean there's what, 300,000 people in Bradford? Similar to Cardiff, Nottingham or Leicester. When you put it into perspective, Bradford seriously underperforms. It is what one should consider a major city, but ranks below not just Leeds, but Sheffield, York and Harrogate also in terms of business. It quite clearly has not had the critical level of investment needed either. To use Cardiff, Nottingham and Leicester as examples, they have all had a significant amount of investment allowing themselves to start promoting the city as a destination.

Bradford can't afford to promote itself now. People will come and then not go back. Its too much of a risk. Once the regeneration of the city centre is well underway and nearing completion, then it can promote itself.

It is obvious that Bradford is completely overshadowed by Leeds. It must start to embrace Leeds rather than work against it. It's making steps to doing this, but I still feel it tries to compete- Westfield for example.

Bradford loses out to Leeds at the moment, but it doesn't have to be like this. I believe the key to Bradford's success is transport. Bradford has to be one of the worst connected UK cities in both road and rail transport. I mean, is it a coincidence that the most thriving areas of Bradford are to the north on the Airedale and Wharfedale corridors?

Get Manningham Station, Low Moor & Bowling Jcn Station reopen for a start.

Bradford doesn't deserve the press it gets, but equally I don't think you can kid yourself that Bradford is where it should be for a city of its size.

Leeds No.1

April 26th, 2010, 04:09 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8643058.stm

Dan B

April 26th, 2010, 10:22 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8643058.stm

Nice one there by Emma. She used to post here as emma72 but hasn't been on in ages. I'm sure her surname's changed though. Here's her facebook group:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49724601709

Is this getting national attention then?

David Cameron like everyone else familiarly blames it on the recession, obviously ignorant of the other 3 years beforehand during which it stood dormant. Also thinks one visit on one day is enough to claim he actually gives a damn.

Leeds No.1

April 26th, 2010, 10:44 PM

Dan B

April 26th, 2010, 11:14 PM

Oh really? That's interesting. I remember her yeah- she does seem to post now and then. I'm very happy to see she has aired those views to David Cameron who clearly has no grip on issues outside the South East.

He used it as an opportunity to have a go at Yorkshire Forward, the only organisation that has consistently stood up for the interests of this region. The councils often perform poorly. He evidently can't even start to imagine what Bradford, or any northern city, needs.

Agree on David Cameron except for on Yorkshire Forward. Not too many people are chuffed with them in Bradford for their ownership of The Odeon and majority financing of it's replacement New Victoria Place. They've frequently ignored the desires of the Bradford public on this one and kept the building in a terrible state, some would say deliberately vandalising or allowing damage to continue unchecked (cut pipes flooding the front of the building). They were also meant to finance part of the City Park project to the tune of £10m, this actually ended up being £6m and something rather surprisingly when I saw the figures quoted somewhere recently.

I see it as no bad thing if they are done away with. I know there's still the arena for Leeds they're involved with, though in Bradford they've shown nothing but scorn for the plan of an equivalent mid-sized venue that the protesters champion and that I cannot abide.

Rob

April 27th, 2010, 10:46 AM

Dan B

April 27th, 2010, 11:08 AM

Yes, well done and well said Emma. Watching Mr Cameron while Emma was speaking, he sat quietly and listened intently which he very rarely does.

His weak excuses which followed were the recession, which Emma later pointed out that the scheme collapsed before the recession, and blaming Yorkshire Forward, which is the only major regional funding body and has been universally proven as a success, which the Conservatives are planning to scrap! When Cameron first came to power, he seemed to be talking about helping the north and visited the region quite a bit, but since then it seems his loyalties have reverted to the traditional Conservative priorities (ie. cuts in spending for the north, no high speed rail, no trolley bus for Leeds, and scrapping the RDAs).

Is the full video available anywhere and what programme was this a part of? Would like to see what his response was to her stating the fact the scheme was already going nowhere, did he have one? As for RDAs though, particularly Yorkshire Forward, I can't stress enough how little they're viewed as 'universally proven as a success'. The Odeon as I mentioned above being the main contentious issue here. They are not working for the public on this issue, and if they no longer exist there will be no further funding for the New Victoria Place development, I hope.

Leeds No.1

April 27th, 2010, 11:33 AM

There's a hustings on tonight on the BBC Yorkshire hosted by Harry Gration. I think its coming from Leeds though. Perhaps its part of that? I did try and find the full programme but to no avail.

I think that Yorkshire Forward have done far more for the region than the councils. Both YF and LCR have been important quangos that have united the region and forced it to work together- they need to be given more powers and become more democratic. Their investment and work in Sheffield City Centre, Holbeck Urban Village and Science City York are notable case studies of their work.

Leeds No.1

April 27th, 2010, 12:28 PM

Found it. Was on last night's Look North:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/england/realmedia/looknorthyorkslincs/looknorth?size=16x9&bgc=C0C0C0&nbram=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1

The Odeon Crusader

April 27th, 2010, 03:07 PM

Hopefully there will be further woes for the existing Conservative Council to come. BORG's Mark Nicholson is standing as an Independent candidate for Clayton and Fairweather Green in the local Council election. What's his main policy? See below...

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3497/promopic.jpg

Interestingly enough, he will be directly up against Cllr David Servant (Conservative), who was one of the "Guilty Five" who approved the demolition of the Odeon last September.

This will be very interesting - Servant deserves to be crushed!!!

Dan B

April 27th, 2010, 09:02 PM

Would offer my support to Mark Nicholson but not my constituency. Closest thing to a party that seems to care about things like Westfield and The Odeon would seem to be the Lib Dems, and find myself more politically inclined towards them then either of the other two. I know this is a Conservative/Lib Dem coalition council, but it seems the Conservatives are mainly the ones driving things here.

Found it. Was on last night's Look North:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/england/realmedia/looknorthyorkslincs/looknorth?size=16x9&bgc=C0C0C0&nbram=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1

Unfortunately it only updates to the latest day so no chance of catching it now as far as I know.

There's a hustings on tonight on the BBC Yorkshire hosted by Harry Gration. I think its coming from Leeds though. Perhaps its part of that? I did try and find the full programme but to no avail.

I think that Yorkshire Forward have done far more for the region than the councils. Both YF and LCR have been important quangos that have united the region and forced it to work together- they need to be given more powers and become more democratic. Their investment and work in Sheffield City Centre, Holbeck Urban Village and Science City York are notable case studies of their work.

Made more democratic = Yes.

Given more powers = God no.

How about making them actually answerable to the people, following people's suggestions when they put them forward 10,000 billion times? How about not vandalising buildings they own to try and force a demolition decision? Working well (except for in Bradford) seems to be the case.

silverstealth

April 29th, 2010, 12:05 AM

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/Lisa%20Appignanesi/thetyrlsapril2010southgatesm.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff74/silverstealth_bucket/album%20name/Lisa%20Appignanesi/thetyrlscloserapril2010southgatesm.jpg

April 22nd 2010

The Odeon Crusader

May 8th, 2010, 01:08 AM

News just in... David Servant has been unseated in the ward of Clayton and Fairweather Green by the Labour candidate Sinead Engel.

Mark Nicholson's campaign literature no doubt contributed to this welcome development. BTW, Mark managed to secure 399 votes - not bad for a Joe Public candidate's first stab!

Mwmbwls

May 22nd, 2010, 09:47 AM

Forgive me if this topic has already been beaten to death in previous threads but this report from the Telegraph and Argus is interesting. It covers not only a proposal for a cross city link but mentions in passing a proposed Westfield Shopping Centre - what is the staus of this project. Have any S106 agreements been put in place?

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8178722.Plan_for___100m_rail_link_across_city/?ref=rss
quote
Businessmen unveil ambitious plan for Bradford rail viaduct
Exclusive By Chris Holland »

Ambitious £100 million proposals for a cross-rail link through Bradford to put the city back on the map and generate economic growth have been unveiled by a group of businessmen.

The proposals would replace the rail Interchange and Forster Square stations with a new glass-sided four-track central station on a new viaduct across Leeds Road providing views of the Cathedral quarter and linking into the planned Westfield retail mall.

Movers behind the plan include two prominent businessmen Andrew Mason and John Pennington, who is also a Bradford councillor.

They say that linking less than one mile of rail track to join up the two halves of the city would put Bradford at the heart of West Yorkshire’s rail network, including links to a proposed new rail route to Leeds-Bradford International Airport, and enable the district to benefit from a predicted surge in rail travel.

The plan would take about five years to complete and they will lobby local and central government to back it as part of an integrated transport strategy.

The campaigners believe the development would encourage new investment and boost job creation, including attracting civil service jobs from London because of cheaper office space in Bradford.

The cross-rail link would run from the Interchange under Bridge Street, cross the site of the former Exchange Station in a 38ft wide strip passing between the Law Courts and Vicar Lane.

It would sweep across Hall Ings at the bottom of Leeds Road on an arched viaduct, navigate Well Street before descending near St. Peter’s House, Forster Square and Lower Cheapside. Gradually the lines would reach ground level to the east of the present Forster Square station and join the existing Shipley line.

The redundant lines to Forster Square would be retained as sidings for freight traffic which is expected to grow. The campaigners say the new station would become ‘Bradford International’ as part of the national railway network and extending to Europe.

It will also incorporate the already planned new magistrates’ Court centre in Exchange Square.

Andrew Mason, managing director of Shipley-based Newmason Properties and chairman of the Bradford Property Forum, said: “The case for a cross-rail link between the two existing stations is overwhelming. Bradford must be on the national railway network rather than two cul-de-sacs.

“One central station will provide a new 24-hour gateway to the city centre and join a district divided by two halves where one cannot reach the other without re-direction through Leeds – and all because we are one mile of track short.”

The cross-rail group has involved architects and civil engineers in drawing up the technical details of the plan.

They have been assured that the route is capable of carrying ‘heavy rail’ and the drop between the Interchange and Foster Square would not be an issue.

They say that 80 per cent of the land needed was already in public ownership. The central station development would mean using some of the land earmarked for the Westfield shopping site and the group has been speaking with the Australian developers whose plans are on hold.

They believe that when the Westfield development does proceed, it would be scaled down to meet changed trends and economic conditions.

John Pennington, who used to own Bradford’s Midland Hotel and Pennington’s night club in the city, said: “With the fastest growing population in the UK we should re-visit our ‘model city’ with the old blinkers removed. In a local economy where entrepreneurship remains, where the youth need hope and jobs, we must provide the tools to enable success.

“Bradford is at the bottom of its cycle and worth a punt by investors, but only if the infrastructure allows people to come and go cheaply, efficiently and conveniently.

“We are the sixth largest city in England yet have a dead end motorway at the M606, two dead end stations and an inner ring road that finishes at a T-junction. We must recover from a cul-de-sac of decline.”

The group also includes Paul Mackie, chairman of Bradford quantity surveyors RPP Ltd, and Roger Owen, former property director of Morrisons supermarkets.

The idea has also won support from Gerry Sutcliffe, MP for Bradford South, and Shipley MP Philip Davies.

WHY WOULD THE CROSS-RAIL LINK BE NEEDED?

Why the cross-rail group says the time is right for the development. * Rail passenger journeys in the district have risen by 60 per cent in the past decade and are forecast to grow by another 45 per cent by 2050. * Network Rail will spend £530m for a 40 per cent increase in trains in the north with 700 extra services. * This will carry 3.5 million extra passengers and provide better services from Leeds and Sheffield to the north east and north west, but only pay ‘lip service’ to Bradford. * Cross-rail would make Bradford an attractive proposition. * It would be greener by encouraging more rail travel with shorter journey times and cheaper travel. * It would provide an uninterrupted circular route from Bradford to Shipley, Leeds, Wakefield, and Halifax in both directions and link Ilkley and Skipton to Halifax and Huddersfield. * It would provide direct access to Transpennine services, including Manchester Airport, Harrogate and York and national routes to Scotland and London. * With improvements at Baildon station it would link into the proposed new Leeds-Bradford Airport rail link.

quote

Yorkshire Boy

May 22nd, 2010, 11:06 AM

All I can say is: DO IT NOW!!! :banana:

Bradford has been waiting for it's single train station hub for ages now, and it damned well needs to happen.

As for Bradford being the 'heart of west yorkshire's rail network', I do believe Leeds has that title, but even still, this will no doubt have great impacts on the city and its economy. This definately needs to happen. Being Bradford however, it could take decades... but still, worth a try.

Harpal

May 23rd, 2010, 05:18 AM

The central train station is definitely a brilliant idea, but I cant see us getting the funding with the current government making cutting the deficit its main goal (which I cant see them doing), we're always overlooked when it comes to these sort of things. This is gonna cost £100million potentially more but I want to quote this comment from the article

"leeds was given five hundred million to refurbish its station also a similar amount to complete its inner ring road,sheffield also has had its station updated and its inner ring road finished, so its about time bradford was given its fair share to get this scheme going but with people like councillor greaves we dont stand much chance."

I think its about time we see some of this money coming our way. This station would be great for business. Its also a shame the council is not showing world cup matches on the big screen this year.

Val Verde

May 29th, 2010, 08:05 PM

Has anyone on here noticed the fire at Natashas School Uniform shop on the corner of Grattan Road and Barry Street yesterday? http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8192330.Firefighters_tackle_clothes_shop_blaze/

Streets closed by fire in centre of Bradford
9:17pm Friday 28th May 2010

Print Email Share Comments(1) By Hannah Baker »

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/resources/images/1314646/?type=display

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/resources/images/1314647/?type=display
Dozens of firefighters tackled a massive blaze at a clothing store in Bradford city centre last night.

Crews from seven fire stations were called to Natasha School Uniform Shop, on the junction of Grattan Road and Barry Street, after the fire broke out at about 4.30pm.

Several roads in the area were closed to traffic and pedestrians as firefighters fought to keep the blaze under control.

A strong wind wafted plumes of smoke across the surrounding streets as the fire spread upwards to a kick-boxing studio above the shop.

Paul Chand, who owns the Castle Hotel opposite the shop, said: “I saw a little bit of smoke and then all of a suddenly there was smoke all over the place.

“We saw the people working in the shop come outside before the fire took hold. It’s like a film. You can’t really believe how quickly it spread. It’s unbelievable.

“We were asked by the police to close. They said anything could happen. If the building explodes it could smash the windows.”

Passers-by stopped to take photographs on their mobile phones as the plumes of smoke rose about 90ft into the air.

An aerial ladder platform was used by one crew to reach the floor above the shop and firefighters wearing breathing apparatus and carrying oxygen tanks disappeared into the building.

Akhmad Hussain, of Toller, whose 23-year-old daughter was working in the shop when the fire broke out, was waiting anxiously nearby.

He said: “My daughter rang me and said the ‘shop is on fire’ and asked if I could come straight down so me, my wife and my brother came straight here.

“This last couple of years they have worked really, really hard. They had ordered all the stock for summer.”

Anyone know how extensive damage is and if it could be yet another case of another attractive Victorian building falling into disrepair as a result of a fire in Bradford? Are there any more pics of this online? http://www.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Grattan+Road,+Bradford&sll=53.79513,-1.757444&sspn=0.003251,0.01369&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Grattan+Rd,+Bradford,+West+Yorkshire+BD1,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.795036,-1.757491&spn=0,0.02738&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=53.79513,-1.757444&panoid=fb24e6VpCzbZECvZy_2w0w&cbp=12,149.85,,0,-9.34

Dan B

June 4th, 2010, 12:31 AM

^ I went right past it on the day, thought next door Rio's had gone up in smoke. Thought another Bradford building would be a goner then, but turns out its mainly the shop interior that's gutted and the building should survive. The owner seemed to vouch to carry on the business in spite of it.

Did depress me a bit at the time, first the Stephen Griffiths murders, then this to top it off at the end of the week.

LaserZone

June 13th, 2010, 04:01 AM

Hi Dan,

I've been wanting to reply to this for ages but it took forever to get the account activated by an admin.

Noticed that article myself, although I imagine I'll probably never use it, except if me and some friends want to go for some oh so ironic fun (huh-huh-huh).

So how come you think you'll never come down? Your money is as good as anyone elses and I'm quite sure my staff would be happy to take some off you in exhange for some non-ironic fun! :banana:

At the end of the day, playing lasertag is great fun, no matter how old you are and it also has the benefit of being good exercise too!

It's also a great leveller - the oldest player we've had at our Huddersfield site was 76 years old and with one family group who came, the grandma came 2nd in her first game and won the next 2 games - something her grandkids were not impressed with!

Anyway, this is 114 Thornton Road, good to see a wider range of uses and actual use of one of these buildings in Goitside:

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3193/114thorntonroad.jpg

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=BD1+2DX&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Bradford+BD1+2DX,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&ei=OWtlS54ZiIzSBNDQrckG&ved=0CAkQ8gEwAA&ll=53.793734,-1.761332&spn=0.001866,0.005681&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.793684,-1.761174&panoid=C38mLR7XB8vPpQlHKppcKQ&cbp=12,1.09,,0,-15.41

Our building looks a mite better now with a great sign out the front to make sure we're hard to miss...

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=386811021421&v=photos&ref=search#!/photo.php?pid=4607946&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=386811021421&id=717661930&ref=pf

The link goes to our Facebook group and it also has pictures of out 1-of-a-kind arena too!

Only gonna be on two floors though, guess the rest will remain empty unless there's someone else occupying it

And that's a big fat NO! We have a 15 year lease on the WHOLE BUILDING!

We have party rooms and conference facilities on the basement level, the ground floor is our reception area and cybercafe and the lasertag arena is on the 1st & 2nd floors. We took the 3rd floor so we didn't have other tenants in the building and have some ideas on what to do with the space at a later date.

Why not come down and see us for yourself - I guarantee you won't see anything else like it in the UK! We only close 3 days a year, Xmas Day, Boxing Day & New Years Day.

Val Verde

June 29th, 2010, 09:04 PM

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4745532491_6703f479fb_b.jpg

Prime Minister David Cameron and the rest of the coalition cabinet were in Bradford today (Odsal Stadium to be exact): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10440848.stm

Coalition cabinet meeting in Yorkshire
Page last updated at 07:43 GMT, Tuesday, 29 June 2010 08:43 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version The away-day is the cabinet's first since the general election David Cameron's coalition cabinet has come together in Bradford for its first meeting outside London.

The prime minister is continuing the practice, revived by predecessor Gordon Brown for the first time since the 1920s, of hosting away-day meetings.

As under Labour, the day will include visits by ministers related to their areas of responsibility.

The main themes of the visit will be business and regional growth. The meeting was at the Grattan Stadium.

David Cameron pledged to bring his cabinet to Bradford after he was confronted by a resident of the city during his election campaign.

Emma Heal said the state of the city centre was "a disgrace" and she blamed Bradford's Conservative council for the stalled progress of the Broadway retail development, which was put on hold by developers during the recession.

Mr Cameron said it was "difficult sometimes to get these things done, particularly in a recession."

Analysis
Continue reading the main story
Norman Smith,
Chief political correspondent, BBC Radio 4
When Gordon Brown was Prime Minister Tory MPs lost no time in attacking him over the bill for his regional cabinet meetings - estimated to cost up to £200,000 a time. Now expect Labour MPs to return the favour - but with an added edge. For how, many will ask, in this age of austerity, when claimants are facing cuts to their benefits, departments are having to make savings of up to a third in their budgets and public sector workers are having their pay frozen, can the coailtion justify spending this sort of money on cabinet away days? No 10 insist they will be keeping the cost as low as possible and that the government is keen to listen to the views of the public. It's also perhaps a bit extreme to bar ministers from ever leaving SW1 again because of the cost of train tickets. Nevertheless - don't be surprised if we don't see many more regional cabinet meetings in the foreseeable future.
He said Conservative councils had a "pretty good record" across the country, providing the "cleanest streets" and "lowest council tax".

The first cabinet meeting away from London or Chequers since 1921 was held in Birmingham in October 2008.

A month later, Gordon Brown took the Labour cabinet to Leeds in West Yorkshire for a meeting which was dominated by the government's response to the Mumbai attacks.

The cost of holding cabinet meetings in the regions came under fire after West Yorkshire Police revealed the force spent £138,000 on security for the Leeds event.

Before Tuesday's visit to West Yorkshire, a Number 10 spokesman said: "Everything is going to be done to keep the cost to an absolute minimum."

Downing Street said the broad theme for Tuesday's meeting was boosting regional economic activity and helping businesses grow.

In a speech on Monday Mr Cameron warned that Britain had to learn to "earn its way in the world" again if it was to remain prosperous.

Speaking to a conference of chief executives, he said: "I think too many people in this country are living under the delusion that a prosperous past guarantees a prosperous future."

Does seem slightly suspicious of me that Cameron, Clegg, Osbourne et al had visited Odsal stadium as opposed to say somewhere like the National Media Museum, Alhambra Theatre, Bradford Town Hall or one of the hotels in Bradford City Centre where they can see for themselves the poor state of the city centre including the Odeon, Westfield etc although I guess they wanted to avoid Bradford's citizens other than those yes people in the various later meetings they went off to (although Odsal is at least in rather a poor condition in itself of course).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Bradford_Odeon.jpg/800px-Bradford_Odeon.jpg

Also it was mentioned on Look North that Yorkshire Forward had spent around £100,000 on repairs to the Bradford Odeon cinema even though it is mooted for demolition. Seems rather wasteful to me when it should surely have gone towards getting the Odeon back into use.

Leeds No.1

June 29th, 2010, 10:15 PM

I'm sceptical to how much they understand the issues though. They think the same things that work in the South East will work here. The nature of the economy here is very different and requires different measures.

emma72

June 30th, 2010, 06:38 PM

Its hard to see how they could understand the issues if they didn't even take the time to visit Westfield site.

Does anyone know exactly who it was Cameron went to see? were there just hand selected from the conservative party safe list or was there a real cross section of the community.

Fair play to Mr Cameron for bringing the Cabinet but for heaven sake if you're going to come make sure its not just photo opportunity!

Yorkshire Boy

June 30th, 2010, 08:09 PM

Its hard to see how they could understand the issues if they didn't even take the time to visit Westfield site.

Exactly. And what conclusions did they come up with from this cabinet meeting? Probably nothing to do with Bradford's dire situation, if anything.

I hate it when politicians blame the recession when it comes to Westfield stalling, when it was clearly put on hold before hand.

Leeds No.1

June 30th, 2010, 09:09 PM

The thing that annoys me about Cameron is that his whole agenda is money based. He doesn't care about people or the standard of living. Everything is about cutting costs and getting the economy back on track, because when the economy growing everything will be fine and all our problems will have gone.

Get real. We need catalyst regeneration projects, especially in Bradford, not only to facilitate economic growth but improve the standard of living in Bradford. And of course in reality, people are more bothered about their standard of living than they are the economy.

MattN

June 30th, 2010, 11:19 PM

I notice that you castigate Cameron for using purely economic factors to measure success and make plans, and then do exactly the same thing yourself. Regeneration, standard of living, its all based on the economy/money/material wealth!

Leeds No.1

July 1st, 2010, 02:32 AM

Yes but I recognise a very fundamental point: that money doesnt equal happiness. He doesn't.

Val Verde

July 20th, 2010, 12:33 AM

From the YEP claims that the axing of Yorkshire Forward will see question marks over the future of sites in Bradford City Centre. http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/Bradford-Question-mark-over-future.6426623.jp

Bradford: Question mark over future of prime sites

Published Date: 19 July 2010
THE scrapping of a regional development agency has raised questions about the future of several prime sites in a West Yorkshire city.
Yorkshire Forward snapped up seven strategic plots – valued at £10 million – in Bradford between 2003 and 2006.

However, since the new Government pulled the plug on the organisation's funding, fears have arisen over the fate of the valuable sites, which include the city's former Odeon cinema, the old city centre police headquarters and land at the former Furniture City warehouse site.

Yorkshire Forward is now believed to be reviewing its strategy for all its assets, including its Bradford portfolio.

The derelict Odeon building had been earmarked for demolition to make way for the £40 million New Victoria Place development.

Wonder if this could mean any increased chance of the Odeon saved from demolition (although more likely this would be just left derelict for a few more years perhaps). On another note the new Jurys Inn Hotel will be opening on Thursday. http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/business/8280569.__20m_Jurys_Inn_hotel_set_to_open_its_doors/

Lord Mayor to officially open new city site that created 70 jobs
8:46pm Monday 19th July 2010

Print Email Share By Chris Holland »

A new £20m city centre hotel which has created around 70 jobs will officially open its doors this week. The Lord Mayor of Bradford Coun Peter Hill will officially open the Jurys Inn hotel on Thursday Jurys Inn Bradford is one of the major businesses taking space in the £50 million Southgate development, near the corner of Thornton Road and Godwin Street will also include the new head office of Provident Financial from September.

Bradford Council agreed a commercial loan to developers McAleer and Rushe to complete the scheme which has been repaid with interest. Coun David Green, Bradford Council’s executive member for regeneration and economy, said: “The opening of Jurys Inn is great news for the city and shows major businesses have confidence to invest in the city centre. “This hotel should help to bring visitors to Bradford as the regeneration of the city centre moves forward. This development will enhance this area of the city and the relocation of Provident Financial will bring hundreds more office workers into the centre.”

Good news to see the opening. However is there any indication of average occupancy rates for hotels in Bradford which must surely be lower than hotels in the likes of Leeds, York and Harrogate i'd have thought.

*-City Of Bradford-*

July 20th, 2010, 12:06 PM

Yorkshire Boy

July 20th, 2010, 12:29 PM

Val Verde

July 20th, 2010, 09:36 PM

It's a joke is that Southgate Complex, looks like one of those 'modern' cheap flats in Leeds - no offence. It's ruined the scenery which was otherwise fairly stunning (with City Hall/Odeon/Alhambra...)

Wasn't there just a surface car park where the Jurys Inn hotel is now, although of course I was always against the loss of the Victorian buildings which were demolished as part of the wider Southgate development for Provident Financial. When will Provident move into Southgate?

On another note the new M&S distribution centre at the ProLogis had opened. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bradford-west-yorkshire-10697877

Jobs boost as M&S warehouse opens in Bradford

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48421000/jpg/_48421794_003482508-1.jpg
The centre will distribute furniture and food to Marks and Spencer stores A Marks and Spencer distribution centre that will create hundreds of jobs in West Yorkshire has been opened.

The 1.1m sq ft (102,000 sq m) building, on the ProLogis Park off the M606, is the one of the largest warehouses in the UK.

Marks and Spencer said the centre would employ more than 1,200 people when it becomes fully operational next year.

The company said Bradford was chosen for the site because of its "fantastic" transport links.

The centre was officially opened by Marks and Spencer chairman Sir Stuart Rose and council leader Ian Greenwood.

Economy benefits

It will distribute furniture and equipment such as shelving to Marks and Spencer stores initially and will send out tinned and packet foods next year.

Darrell Stein, Marks and Spencer's logistics and IT director, said: "This is an exciting day for our business. Bradford will deliver better service and better availability for our customers and it is a key part of our strategy to prepare our supply chain for the future.

"As an area, Bradford has fantastic transport links, a rich pool of resource and talent and has provided us with the support to deliver a facility to be proud of. We're delighted to be here and look forward to a bright future in West Yorkshire."

David Green, Bradford Council's executive member for regeneration and economy, said: "This site will provide hundreds of jobs for residents, contribute millions of pounds to our economy over many years and act as a catalyst for further growth."

Certainly a very large and welcome development providing a ignificant number of job.

Dan B

July 21st, 2010, 11:05 AM

I'm not sure I agree with you there CoB, I didn't think it was too bad. Jury Inn along with the new Pcf building is it? (can't remember). Though, saying that I only saw it from Centenery Square so it could be awful from other angles for all I know.

Looks relatively sleek and inoffensive to the surrounding buildings, I thought they'd done well with it myself! ... at least we're getting some investment!

If you looked at it from Centenary Square you probably saw its best side, the part clad in sandstone blocks, which I'd have to agree does look decent. Further along Thornton Road though there's just this fairly awful looking yellow render, and that takes up most of the building.

Here's what you probably saw:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chairman8/4802763990/in/set-72157608004538510/

This from the Thornton Road angle:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chairman8/4802151171/in/set-72157608004538510/

There's quite a few more shots from that guy, I'll have to ask him if I can upload some onto the Southgate thread, could really do with an update, given it's nearing completion and the second crane was just taken down.

Wasn't there just a surface car park where the Jurys Inn hotel is now, although of course I was always against the loss of the Victorian buildings which were demolished as part of the wider Southgate development for Provident Financial. When will Provident move into Southgate?

Yeah just a surface car park as well as 1-11 Godwin Street of course as you mention. Certainly not worth the loss, strange though that the most architecturally strong element of the design replaces the decent Victorian architecture it swiped away. Just makes you think they could've placed that part of the design elsewhere on the site, maintained 1-11 Godwin Street and developed it as a standalone building as more of a boutique hotel, whilst improving the quality of the rest of the design, perhaps making it taller in places, breaking it up a bit more, not making it so bloody long. But with a company that asked for a £6m loan in the first place, this I don't think you're gonna get. Still surprised this was all they could do with £45m, wouldn't be exactly astonished if it was value costed. The difference in aesthetics between sandstone block cladding and cheap yellow render is only too clear. Even makes the tacky plastic-like window cladding look better, another feature of the design which could have been improved and then some.

As for when Provident Financial move into the Southgate Complex, I suggest you read your previous post as you've already answered it.

Yorkshire Boy

July 21st, 2010, 11:30 AM

Yeah, that's right DanB, I think I saw it's best side. Saying that though, I still don't think it looks too bad. Compared to say the tax revenues office at Forster Square station this has a lot more glass.

It's no Gatehaus, but for something to be built in these turbulent times IN Bradford is pretty much a miracle so I think it could of been a lot worse. Though of course, the council did prop them up didn't they?

Leeds No.1

July 21st, 2010, 11:33 AM

Something I had thought earlier is does today's announcement of the recommencement of Trinity in Leeds put Bradford's Westfield in an even more unlikely position?

Harpal

July 26th, 2010, 03:42 PM

Just wanted to show some photos I took the other day, not brilliant quality, but I dont claim to be a pro photographer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52440159@N06/4830097185/

Does anyone know whats going to happen to the old fire station, its just behind the new police station and I know we have new station on leeds road, but this is a real eye sore. Anyone know if theres any plans to do anything at this site?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52440159@N06/4830710418/in/photostream/
This is Jacobs Well and I think this takes the award for being the ugliest building in Bradford. Although its quite nice inside, it looks very neglected on the outside. Any plans to moe the council offices out of here? I'd very much like to see this bulldozed, dare I say another hole in the ground would better to look at.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52440159@N06/4830710276/in/photostream/
The new bus canopy looks almost finished. Again I don't think this is very aesthetically pleasing, but I suppose its better than the old bridge that was there before, thoughts?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52440159@N06/4830097185/in/photostream/
I like the new PFG head office from this angle, but like someone said in another thread I think the Jury's Inn section looks slightly poorer quality materials have been used. At least we have another hotel in city centre, does anyone know if the gym is open to the public wouldnt mind going there? theres not many gyms in are city centre.

Yorkshire Boy

July 26th, 2010, 04:32 PM

Sorry Harpal but your pictures came up with those red x's :redx:

Not sure about the bus canopy. To me it seems a bit useless/unneccasary considering you can catch the same busses from interchange which is just up the road.

Yeah, I like the PFG building too, a nice amount of glass which is greatly needed in Bradford IMO. Obviously it's not the greatest of designs nor materials, but it's still a welcomed addition.

Haven't really checked out the Jury's Inn building so much, I've only seen it from Centenery Square so I can't judge it yet, but from what I saw it seemed relatively ok.

I'll be down in town tonight anyway on my way to work so I'll have a good old gander before my shift starts.

Val Verde

September 27th, 2010, 07:25 PM

Plans by Bradford Council to press ahead with a regeneration scheme along the Canal Road corridor between Shipley and Bradford City Centre. http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8415232.Council_set_to_push_ahead_with___500m_regen_vision/

Council set to push ahead with £500m regen vision between Shipley and Bradford

7:30am Monday 27th September 2010

Bradford Council is set to press ahead with ambitious regeneration plans by setting up a public-private company to develop a £500 million ‘eco-settlement’.

The Council’s Executive will be asked to agree to the formation of a Joint Venture Company (JVCo) to develop a huge area of land between Bradford and Shipley.

The project will be the central section of a wider scheme along the Canal Road Corridor.

Detailed plans for the first homes are scheduled to be completed by the start of 2012 and development should begin before 2013. A business plan will go before the Executive which sets out the terms of the joint venture between Bradford Council and development firm Urbo Regeneration Ltd.

Councillor David Green, portfolio holder for regeneration and economy, said this was the first step to transform the 100-acre swathe of brown-field land into a development of “high-quality” homes. “I am sure that there is real commitment to delivering this,” he said. “It is the vehicle that will allow us to work with the private sector in getting the development off the ground.”

Under the proposals, the Council will transfer a package of land, valued at £3.7m, into the JVCo.

That includes Frizinghall allotments, sites near Poplar Crescent, Gaisby Lane, Powell Road, Stanley Road and Queens Road, and other Council-owned brown-field areas around Canal Road.

The Council may use Compulsory Purchase Orders to buy more land for the development, if necessary.

Urbo Regeneration will attract investment from private developers to build on the site. Builders’ merchants Arnold Laver – a principal shareholder in Chesterfield-based Urbo – will have its Canal Road base relocated elsewhere in the district.

Coun Green is expected to act as the Council’s representative on the board of the JVCo, giving the authority a say on its major decisions.

The Council will not be expected to invest any taxpayers’ money into the scheme without being reimbursed by the JVCo, according to the proposed plan. Any profits made will be spent on public works for the future developments The Executive will be asked to approve the business case and endorse the JVCo until 2013 when it meets on Friday. Members will also be asked to approve Coun Green’s appointment to the JVCo board.

Coun Green said: “The joint venture puts in place the structures that make it easier to attract investment because all the interested parties in the area will be involved in one company.”

A report to the meeting says the Canal Road Corridor is one of four areas in the Leeds City Region partnership earmarked for urban ‘eco-settlements’.

It states: “The Council’s aspiration is to transform the Canal Road Corridor area into a ‘great place’ made up of a series of high-quality sustainable neighbourhoods where local people will want to live and work.”

Well the Canal Road corridor is certainly a logicial route for regeneration to the north of Bradford City Centre with plenty of potential although it could be yet another case of words and no action of course. Is there any update on plans to improve Canal Road (which there should certainly be the room to allow for future widening of the road) or potentially opening a railway station in Manningham which would support these plans? Is the reinstatement of the Bradford Canal along this corridor still planned or has that been ditched?

Also a new Toys R Us is opening at the Manningham Lane Retail Park at a site formerly occupied by Netto. http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8385926.1_500_applicants_for_50_jobs_at_new_Bradford_store/

Guess it is good to see someone new in this end of Bradford.

Dan B

September 27th, 2010, 07:46 PM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/52440159@N06/4830097185/in/photostream/
I like the new PFG head office from this angle, but like someone said in another thread I think the Jury's Inn section looks slightly poorer quality materials have been used. At least we have another hotel in city centre, does anyone know if the gym is open to the public wouldnt mind going there? theres not many gyms in are city centre.

Do you mind if I upload your shots on your behalf to the thread for the development?

Harpal

September 29th, 2010, 01:35 PM

Do you mind if I upload your shots on your behalf to the thread for the development?

Thats fine Dan, no need to ask.

Has anyone seen this in T&A im currently in Nottingham so only just seen it online. This just makes me angry that the council should have to borrow money which was promised and received in bits and then squandered by an inept council. After almost 10 years of "regeneration" what can we possible say has happened in Bradford to keep up with the development of its people. Sack the whole council and their pay should be put into a new council for the people, something that if a success would show the rest of the country how to run services. Controversial maybe, but its high time citizens of Bradford had a real say in Bradford and not people living miles away pretending to be locals in the worst council and joke in Britain.

Can 'pay-back' scheme work for Bradford?

9:53am Thursday 23rd September 2010

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* By Jim Greenhalf »

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg wants to boost regeneration schemes across Yorkshire by giving local authorities new borrowing powers.

Councils already borrow money for capital projects, with pay-back terms measured against revenue income from taxes and grants.

What Mr Clegg is proposing is for councils to borrow millions of pounds for major schemes in advance of income from those proposed developments.

This would be like Bradford Council borrowing money against the anticipated income from Westfield’s proposed Broadway shopping mall.

Borrowing against unknown tax revenues from hoped-for schemes is not without at least one obvious risk. If anticipated revenue income falls short of the loan repayments, who picks up the bill? Council tax payers.

According to research by the Financial Times, this has happened in Chicago, where this policy, known as Tax Incremental Funding, began. The need to service the total debt accrued by 165 TIF schemes has been blamed for a “hole in the city budget”.

The English version of TIF is known as Accelerated Development Zones (ADZ). The 2010 Budget contained proposals for this method of raising money for capital projects to be piloted across the country. But that was before the General Election and Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne’s looming Comprehensive Spending Review.

Bradford Council leader Councillor Ian Greenwood, who has already announced budget cuts of £38m over the next three years, is wary of the cost of borrowing.

He said: “As a rule of thumb, for every £1m we borrow, we have to pay £100,000. Prudential borrowing is sensible and we do that; but where budgets are being slashed you would not want to borrow in a way that would affect your current financial position badly.”

Mr Clegg, who also leads the Liberal Democrats, maintains the proposal would liberate local authorities by unlocking growth.

“Labour rattled on about decentralisation, but they held the purse strings tight. We are different, we are liberal,” he said.

But with the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s cuts package looming on October 20, concern has already been expressed widely that necessary spending reductions must be balanced by investment in schemes that keep the economy going.

In plants, growth can be accelerated by cutting back. Similarly, economic recovery can be encouraged by slashing waste, getting rid of dead wood and concentrating resources on growth.

Recovery also comes down to what Andrew Mason, chairman of Bradford Property Forum, has said often enough in the past: Britain must build its way out of recession.

This is the nub of a 48-page report, Funding And Planning For Infrastructure, by the Local Government Association chaired by Baroness Margaret Eaton, former Bradford Council leader and Conservative councillor for Bingley Rural.

It states that an estimated £500 billion is needed to pay for repairing crumbling roads, improving poor housing, inefficient power generation and pollution, combating delays in rail services and meeting the needs of a growing number of elderly – including an extra 800,000 people aged 65 by 2012.

Road congestion, travel delays and lost production resulting from all this could cost an extra £22 billion a year by 2025.

The association maintains that investment in major projects drives economic growth, and that central to this is using the £250 billion capital base of local authorities to borrow more imaginatively – not recklessly, however.

Given the problems we’ve got, Baroness Eaton says in her foreword to the report: “It will be crucial for both central and local government to rise to the challenge.

“The Government will need to work to follow through on its commitments to localism and decentralisation. It will need to move towards removing the plethora of appraisal and bidding processes, excessive bureaucracy, control and inspection regimes that have built up over the years to allow funding to be targeted to the needs of places, joined up at local level and spent on local priorities.”

Among the proposals other than Accelerated Development Zones, outlined in the report, are development tariffs and local authority bonds.

The first simply means asking existing businesses in particular areas to pay a bit extra. This money then goes back into improving the infrastructure of that particular area.

Local authority bonds were scrapped in the 1980s. The Local Government Authority says offering tax-exempt bonds to the public could draw upon the estimated £68 billion of household savings in the UK.

Harpal

October 3rd, 2010, 12:30 AM

Im sick of seeing Westfield working on the Broadmarsh shopping centre in Nottingham when they should be building in Bradford. Im a young Bradfordian, so I want somewhere to go and shop on my own doorstep rather than go to Leeds by train or bus. When I hear a statistic like Bradford has the fastest youngest growing population outside London, it makes me think why our great city is not seeing the investment it needs.

On a side note im also tired of going through Leeds to get to anywhere like Nottingham by train, we have two train stations in Bradford surely they should be able to handle direct trains to other big cities. It would be more attractive to business if this were the case IMO. Its good to see a London train from Bradford interchange, but what about those cities within a 100 mile radius.

I have grown to like the park around what should have been a shiny new centre, but Bradford needs a new shopping centre. It would create jobs and attract more people to shop, which creates more money - its a cycle that will work. Bradford is currently not in the top 50 shopping destinations in Britiain, for a city of our size this is laughable. I hope the development starts within the next 2 years.

Does anyone know what's happening with the old Odeon building? Are people going to be debating over it for another decade without anything happening? Did O2 ever get to see the petition and facebook group people set up to get it to become a concert venue? I think if nothing new is going to replace the building it should be salvaged and made into a concert venue. Doesn't that link in to its past, I heard beatles played there, so it would be a good idea if only someone with the investment could come forward.

Harpal

October 3rd, 2010, 12:57 AM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Bradford_exchange_1_rail_station1872170_5d672f8d.jpg

Ive just seen this picture of Bradford train station from 1961, why can the interchange not look like this anymore??

Look at the grandeur of the station then.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Bradford_exchange_2_train_station_1872152_eb1a2f58.jpg

Just seen these pics on wikipedia, someone must have added them recently. I thought with the progression of time things are supposed to get better.

cmj

October 3rd, 2010, 01:51 PM

Ive just seen this picture of Bradford train station from 1961, why can the interchange not look like this anymore??

Bradford has the dubious honour of having both its remaining stations 'downsized' (rather badly), Forster Square also used to be bigger and a little closer to the city centre.

spionkop64

October 4th, 2010, 04:16 AM

[QUOTE=Harpal;64698801]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Bradford_exchange_1_rail_station1872170_5d672f8d.jpg

QUOTE]

Is that Bradford's answer to John Betjamin? A remarkably similar pose to the statue at St Pancras.

Dan B

October 4th, 2010, 10:52 PM

Saw this on the T&A website, looks slightly horrible right in front of those three nice mill buildings on Canal Road:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9729/trav1jpgdisplay.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Travelodge plans to open new hotel in Bradford

10:10am Monday 4th October 2010

Comments(28)

By Will Kilner »

Travelodge is planning to open a new city centre hotel just months after publishing a survey naming Bradford as the city visitors least wanted to visit.

Barnfield Construction, of Nelson, Lancashire, has applied for planning permission to build a 69-bedroom hotel in Mill Street, near the Royal Mail sorting office at Forster Square, Bradford.

The applicant has agreed the development with budget hotel chain Travelodge, according to a document submitted in support of the application.

Councillor David Green, Bradford Council’s executive member for regeneration, said: “We are pleased that this application has come in. It will form part of work to get developments in Bradford off the ground, some of which have been mothballed.”

In March, Travelodge angered community leaders in Bradford by releasing a survey that listed the city as the place travellers least wanted to visit due to it being “dangerous, ugly and boring.”

A month later, it published another survey naming the Bradford accent as one of the least sexy in the country, just ahead of Birmingham and Wolverhampton.

The new hotel building would include 275 square metres of commercial units at ground level, while there would also be a detached commercial unit at the south-eastern end of the site.

The developer said the hotel would fit within the ambitions of the 15-year masterplan for the ‘Channel’ neighbourhood of the city centre.

Dan B

October 4th, 2010, 10:53 PM

Saw this on the T&A website, looks slightly horrible right in front of those three nice mill buildings on Canal Road:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9729/trav1jpgdisplay.jpg

Travelodge plans to open new hotel in Bradford

10:10am Monday 4th October 2010

Comments(28)

By Will Kilner »

Travelodge is planning to open a new city centre hotel just months after publishing a survey naming Bradford as the city visitors least wanted to visit.

Barnfield Construction, of Nelson, Lancashire, has applied for planning permission to build a 69-bedroom hotel in Mill Street, near the Royal Mail sorting office at Forster Square, Bradford.

The applicant has agreed the development with budget hotel chain Travelodge, according to a document submitted in support of the application.

Councillor David Green, Bradford Council’s executive member for regeneration, said: “We are pleased that this application has come in. It will form part of work to get developments in Bradford off the ground, some of which have been mothballed.”

In March, Travelodge angered community leaders in Bradford by releasing a survey that listed the city as the place travellers least wanted to visit due to it being “dangerous, ugly and boring.”

A month later, it published another survey naming the Bradford accent as one of the least sexy in the country, just ahead of Birmingham and Wolverhampton.

The new hotel building would include 275 square metres of commercial units at ground level, while there would also be a detached commercial unit at the south-eastern end of the site.

The developer said the hotel would fit within the ambitions of the 15-year masterplan for the ‘Channel’ neighbourhood of the city centre.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8428426.Another_new_hotel_planned_for_city/

Also, another hotel? Why?

Harpal

October 5th, 2010, 12:22 AM

Saw this on the T&A website, looks slightly horrible right in front of those three nice mill buildings on Canal Road:

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9729/trav1jpgdisplay.jpg

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8428426.Another_new_hotel_planned_for_city/

Also, another hotel? Why?

I can see where your coming from, but if there wasnt a need I dont think a company as big as Travelodge would be building a new hotel here. That said I think it will be a cheap build and not look as good as the old mill buildings. I think there are more advantages though, like jobs in construction and the workers.

What im not understanding is this part "The new hotel building would include 275 square metres of commercial units at ground level, while there would also be a detached commercial unit at the south-eastern end of the site. " Commercial units, when so many are empty in the city centre. I wonder what tenants will take these. It seems more and more units are being built, regardless of tenants occupying them???:nuts: Possibly a coffee chain like you see in some travelodges??

Looks like there's going to be plenty of bed spaces for visitors in Bradford, now if only there were more attractions, like a big shopping centre, concert venue - odeon. Council needs to be thinking ahead of the big water feature, that alone no matter how big is not going to attract people. When was the last time somebody came to stare at water :lol:

MattN

October 5th, 2010, 12:31 AM

Well, a lot of people take trips to look at waterfalls, rivers, lakes, the sea, even fountains ;).

Couldn't resist pointing this out, but of course you are right in that a city does generally need more to offer to attract people.

Harpal

October 5th, 2010, 12:39 AM

Does anyone know if Prologis Park is now open and operational. I know it was supposed to create hundreds of jobs with the M&S site???
http://www.prologisbradford.co.uk/index.php?cat_id=74&level=1

Dr Pepper

December 25th, 2010, 11:21 PM

Without wishing to annoy anyone here I was wondering in which of the following stages these Will Alsop plans are currently in.

1. Staying in fantasy land.
2. Just waiting for the money.
3. Will be used as basis for other schemes.
4. Permanently cancelled due The Economic Climate.

http://skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/327AlsopPlansWackinessForBradford_pic1.jpg

http://skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/327AlsopPlansWackinessForBradford_pic2.jpg

http://skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/327AlsopPlansWackinessForBradford_pic3.jpg

http://skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/327AlsopPlansWackinessForBradford_pic4.jpg

Leeds No.1

December 25th, 2010, 11:45 PM

It's one large masterplan- different elements are at different stages. Some remain in 'fantasy land', but others have been brought forward and are now in progress. The City Park is one example- the lake has been toned down to a mirror pool now though, and is under construction I believe.

It's a shame that it has been watered down in my opinion. Infact I think it could potentially be quite dangerous to Bradford. Will Allsop's plan is an opportunity to get Bradford back on its feet by making an impact. But if this is toned down to a standard where it doesn't put Bradford on the map, it'll just be another failed white elephant regeneration scheme.

albionfagan

December 26th, 2010, 12:56 AM

I hope this goes ahead in full format, Bradford's got such a rich heritage in architecture and it's a shame that it gets overlooked for the eyesore that is the majority of Leeds.

di Livio

December 26th, 2010, 01:25 PM

I hope this goes ahead in full format, Bradford's got such a rich heritage in architecture and it's a shame that it gets overlooked for the eyesore that is the majority of Leeds.

Oh look, it's the Ragged Trousered Antagonist, once again trying to compensate for the shame of originating in Hull.

legolamb

December 26th, 2010, 08:15 PM

He's right though. Bradford does have a more impressive stock of historic architecture in general than Leeds.

albionfagan

December 27th, 2010, 03:40 AM

Perhaps I shouldn't have phrased my appraisal of Bradford in such words that were disparaging to Leeds, it only feeds ridiculous trolls like Di Livio who think I have something against Leeds.

All I meant was that Bradford is unfairly though of in the public mindset, when in fact it's got glorious archictectural history, far superior to its neighbour Leeds and in fact to the majority of Yorkshire(with the possible of exception of York). This isn't saying Bradford is better than Leeds, obviously Leeds is far more advanced in terms of business, transport, nightclubs and racist extremists....

legolamb

December 27th, 2010, 11:31 AM

...

di Livio

December 27th, 2010, 07:08 PM

albionfagan

December 27th, 2010, 07:27 PM

di Livio

December 29th, 2010, 12:39 PM

It upsets me that you find me to be a 'bigoted hooligan' when in fact I stand diametrically opposed to that. Ok, sometimes my comments on Leeds have been a bit unfair and the humour has been missed, but usually you'll find that at its foundation are solid and pertinent points.

Your comments are consistently and intentionally offensive. Outright prejudice cannot be passed off as anything other than what it is. If you want to be seen as anything other than a hooligan, you should stop acting like one.

Dan B

December 31st, 2010, 01:49 AM

Can't we all just get along?

lazygamer

December 31st, 2010, 02:21 AM

Can't we all just get along?

Course not. We wouldn't be Yorkshire folk otherwise.

Aaronj09

December 31st, 2010, 01:03 PM

I hope this goes ahead in full format, Bradford's got such a rich heritage in architecture and it's a shame that it gets overlooked for the eyesore that is the majority of Leeds.

Bradford has beautiful architecture, very true. But most of the city centre is filthy and a haunt for the homeless and the drunk, no offence to Bradford, I want to see the city progress into what it once was. And yeah, Opal and Plaza are god-awful but I cannot think of any other buildings which are really stand-out ugly, BWP isn't too bad and there's some fine peices of Architecture around Westgate/Park Row/Park Square and King Sreet is good looking.

di Livio

December 31st, 2010, 06:31 PM

Bradford has beautiful architecture, very true. But most of the city centre is filthy and a haunt for the homeless and the drunk, no offence to Bradford, I want to see the city progress into what it once was. And yeah, Opal and Plaza are god-awful but I cannot think of any other buildings which are really stand-out ugly, BWP isn't too bad and there's some fine peices of Architecture around Westgate/Park Row/Park Square and King Sreet is good looking.

Bradford has some of the best deep cut stonework in western Europe - Little Germany and the area around the Wool Exchange, for example, is stunning - but it also has some dreadful, run down post-war architecture (eg. the Kirkgate Centre).
I've always had a soft spot for Bradford though.

Anyone who thinks Leeds is an eyesore should check out Wiggley's Google Streetview thread.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1255297

MarkJF

January 1st, 2011, 12:13 AM

Bit of a daft argument, Leeds is lovely city centre and has far more quality structures than Bradford, it is grandeur, Bradford is not. :ohno: However, Bradford does have a few jaw droppers of a quality that Leeds does not. IMO.

I got a great book for Xmas "Lost Victorian Britain: How the Twentieth Century Destroyed the Nineteenth Century's Architectural Masterpieces" Good bits about Bradford from the '60 as we lost our arcades, stations and hotels in the hopeless pursuit of Leeds, all culminating in what we have today, a dead zone.

Harpal

January 5th, 2011, 06:41 PM

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8769173.Now_shoe_shop_to_shut_after_50_years/?ref=mr

So another retailer is due to close after 50 years of being in the city centre. I feel sorry for the shop manager who makes some very valid points, like how the urban park should have been made into a car park. A car park would have brought people in and im sure they wouldnt mind paying a small amount, which would again generate some money. If only the council listened to its people, theres no point holding consultation meetings after retailers are closing. Pretty poor Bradford council.

MarkJF

January 6th, 2011, 10:38 AM

The park is not a park, it is some grassed earth mounds with kids murals for eye entertainment and with a cheap tarmac pathway bisecting it.

It should have been a car park and no parking charge should have been levied, last throw of the dice and Bradford didn't even roll it.

FreddyFresher

January 7th, 2011, 02:36 PM

MarkJF

January 7th, 2011, 03:24 PM

Surely a car park would not be any sort of solution to the plethora of Bradford's problems - it would be a stop gap that would work in the short term only. Putting a car park there would be a fine example of the planning decisions, made by councils, that we now deride as ill thought through.

I agree, but I didn't say it was solution to anything I said it should have been a car park, rather than what it is now, a short cut from nowhere to nearly nowhere.

Footfall is dropping, shops are closing, it really is desperate, free parking (in the city centre) would have provided a short term fillip. Grassy mounds, children's "murals" and a tarmac pathway does not bring £1 to the city centre's retailers.

FreddyFresher

January 7th, 2011, 05:49 PM

Are there any pictures? I haven't seen what progress the park has made yet.

I think the park is a good idea as part of wider regeneration, but I'm doubtful that will all happen any time soon.

MarkJF

January 10th, 2011, 10:54 AM

Are there any pictures? I haven't seen what progress the park has made yet.

I think the park is a good idea as part of wider regeneration, but I'm doubtful that will all happen any time soon.

I'd agree, because retailing is finshed as a future for Bradford. But, calling something a "park" doesn't make it a park, if it is not one. Prefixing it with "Urban" only makes me mad!

It is, again, some earth mounds, grassed over, surrounded by a ply-board "wall" which hides (mostly) a building site. Through the "park" runs a poorly surfaced, and all too obviously temporary, tarmac pathway. The ply-board wall has childrens murals, why? I have no idea, but like parades have drum bangers and whistle blowers, they just do.

You'll find a couple of pics here (http://s1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb395/markxjr/), bleak is the word.

ahillyar

January 12th, 2011, 12:01 AM

There is also no drainage (what with it being a converted building site), meaning whenever it rains, the paths are flooded with standing water and the grass is waterlogged for a few days afterwards.

MarkJF

January 13th, 2011, 10:06 AM

You couldn't make it up. :lol:

Flooding (http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8784057.Flooded_Urban_Garden_to_be_dug_up_to_stop_flooding/)

Harpal

January 13th, 2011, 10:16 PM

You couldn't make it up. :lol:

Flooding (http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/8784057.Flooded_Urban_Garden_to_be_dug_up_to_stop_flooding/)

I cant believe that the council is wasting money like this. They need to turn it into a park and ride.

MattN

January 14th, 2011, 01:46 AM

Where would you ride to?

cmj

January 14th, 2011, 10:26 AM

Where would you ride to?

Leeds :lol:

MattN

January 14th, 2011, 04:12 PM

I didn't dare say it...or Halifax. ;)

Leeds No.1

January 15th, 2011, 11:17 AM

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Video-special-report-The-millions.6691485.jp
Video special report: The millions spent on schemes left unstarted in Bradford's regeneration game

15 January 2011
Mark Casci and John Roberts

MORE than £10m of taxpayers' money was spent on consultants for regeneration schemes in Bradford city centre – even though work failed to start on four of the city's six key projects.

Figures obtained by the Yorkshire Post show that since 2003 a private company set up to administer new building works in the city commissioned a total of £10,599,846 in external consultants' services.

The multi-million-pound spending comes despite the fact that four of the six main priority projects have yet to see any major development work.

The company founded to handle regeneration projects, named Bradford Centre Regeneration (BCR), spent more than £2m on consultants for projects which have either stalled or have never been started.

These include the mothballed Westfield shopping centre, plans to develop the city's former Odeon cinema site, designs for a "business forest" and an ambitious scheme to create a so-called urban village in the Bradford canal basin with offices, flats and high rise towers.

Of the projects that have been started, one was to improve the city centre's streets and another is a city centre park – due for completion later this year.

The figures emerged as part of a Yorkshire Post investigation into spending on Bradford's troubled regeneration programme. The £10.6m spent on consultants was all public money, provided by Bradford Council, Yorkshire Forward and the Housing and Communities Agency.

A spokesman for Bradford Council said that spending was used to "provide specific expertise and capacity to add to the expertise available within the council, BCR and Yorkshire Forward on issues like land acquisition, land management assisting with legal and contractual documents".

However, the cost has been attacked by many of the city's politicians, and Bradford Council's new regeneration chief accused his predecessors of concentrating on ambitious eye-catching announcements and impressions rather than actual development.

Coun David Green, who took over the regeneration portfolio last May, said: "You have to ask why spend that level of money on schemes that are still waiting to be started let alone completed.

"It just goes back to a lot of our money being spent on artists' impressions and the background stuff when they have not spent their energies on delivering or getting private sector partners to deliver on the ground."

Coun Green, who now intends to raise the issue of consultancy spending at a meeting of all of the city's councillors this week, also acknowledged that the current economic climate coupled with the dissolution of Yorkshire Forward meant regeneration would be tougher to deliver. But he maintained the council was now focused on delivery rather than just plans.

But his predecessor, Coun Adrian Naylor, said that the spending supported a long-term vision for the city centre, including projects being led by private developers.

The consultancy spending included £1.8m on the city centre park, £1.6m on New Victoria Place – a plan to demolish the former Odeon cinema and create a hotel and apartments – and £55,084 on the urban village scheme named the Bradford Channel Project.

Also included was a £500,000 consultancy bill for the Westfield Shopping Centre on Broadway, a project seen as the city's flagship regeneration programme .

The centre was due to have been finished in 2008 according to initial plans and scores of properties and buildings were demolished to make way for the site in 2005, a process which cost the taxpayer £4.31m.

However, the project was beset by continual delays with retailers proving unwilling to sign up to it, leading Westfield to announce it was suspending work in 2009. The debacle has left a vast 10-acre hole in the city centre which has since been turned into an "urban garden", currently closed to the public due to flooding.

The city park project is the only one to have seen major development work or to be given a definite completion date.

Harpal

January 15th, 2011, 10:00 PM

Leeds No.1

January 15th, 2011, 10:14 PM

I don't know too much about Bradford Council, but the decisions they've made don't seem to have been great. Having said this, I don't think everything can be put down to the council- Westfield and other developers, as well as external causes such as the success of Leeds are all to blame.

I remember Bradford dispersed the airport sale funds among wards of the city- stupid idea. Should have been kept together to deliver a flagship catalyst project like in Leeds.

Aaronj09

January 15th, 2011, 11:32 PM

Keep in mind Bradford was actually the better city out of Leeds and Bradford about 20 or 30 years ago, things change.

ahillyar

January 16th, 2011, 12:28 AM

Bradford struggles to compete with Halifax thesedays never mind Leeds!

The council's handling of the Westfield fiasco, is the root cause of most of Bradford city centre's problems. 5 years ago only the Westfield site was an issue, now it has spread so almost everything between Kirkgate and the Interchange (besides Waterstones) is pretty much dead.

In fact besides the Kirkgate Centre, Kirkgate itself and Darley Street, what else is there in Bradford?

di Livio

January 16th, 2011, 03:28 PM

Keep in mind Bradford was actually the better city out of Leeds and Bradford about 20 or 30 years ago, things change.

Leeds had the signficant University though, so Bradford wasn't 'better' in that respect.

LeedsLad

January 16th, 2011, 04:15 PM

I do feel sorry for the residents of Bradford. But remember Trinity was at risk of becoming a hole in the ground for a while there too, and Eastgate probably wasn't far off being the same.

I'd agree with the point about the airport money - in 20/30/50 years Bradfordians will likely be unable to point to whatever it is that their money has been spent on, or any benefit, whilst Leeds will have attracted countless numbers of daytrippers and weekend stop overs, publicity grabbing events and regenerated a whole area of the city centre, whilst also perhaps boosting the number of restaurants, hotels and bars the city can support...

Perhap's it is time that Bradford 'did a Salford' and branded itself a part of Leeds, with Leeds postcodes, telephone numbers etc.

Leeds No.1

January 16th, 2011, 05:07 PM

That's what I believe too. I'm not sure it has to the extremes, but by modelling itself as essentially 'commuterville' for Leeds, it could get back on its feet. Many large settlements have done this, and largely to their success (Wolverhampton, Birkenhead, Gateshead, Salford...).

LeedsLad

January 16th, 2011, 05:14 PM

We already share an airport, and the 2 cities merge at the border.
Improve transport links between the 2 cities (road & public transport), and Bradford to market itself in such a way and it will flourish.
Companies want a Leeds address, a Leeds prescence, access to the Leeds workforce and infrastructure - so they could locate in Bradford, claiming this as Leeds. I think this could be a way forward..?

MattN

January 16th, 2011, 05:31 PM

LeedsLad

January 16th, 2011, 05:55 PM

Bradford isn't really comparable to Salford though, the size differential is much greater (although more ambiguous perhaps), and Bradford's historic centre is rather more than a few hundred metres away from Leeds'.

In what way will Bradford 'flourish' by marketing itself as commuterville? What exactly would be different about the place? Commuterville almost implies somewhere with no economic activity of its own so is it even possible for such a place to flourish? Would this involve abandoning the city centre of somewhere with about 300,000 people whilst much smaller places around a quarter the size like Wakefield (the same distance away from leeds) and Halifax continue to flourish relatively speaking?

I personally wouldn't go for 'commuterville', but I'd certainly go for being part of wider Leeds. I do think that companies would locate there more if they thought it would bring the benefits of Leeds (workforce/image/address/population/infrastructure etc), with lower costs (rent/wages/taxes etc).

Also the reason I say implement transport between the 2 is to bring them 'closer' together. A 10 minute journey time between the 2 centres would be a huge boon. And we all like huge boons.

Other than modern additions (Quays/Lowry etc) - what is left of Salford centre anyway? Not much as far as I could see?

MattN

January 16th, 2011, 05:59 PM

The Docks are not the historic centre but the area around Chapel Street. Indeed there isn't much left, that is precisely my point! It's directly adjacent to Manchester City Centre so has effectively ceased to exist, Bradford is somewhat further from Leeds (and somewhat bigger) so the earlier attempt at suggesting its relationship with Leeds is the same is flawed.

I don't think for Bradford to end up like Salford is a sound aspiration.

LeedsLad

January 16th, 2011, 06:10 PM

Oh don't get me wrong, Salford is a dump! But it has arguably benefitted more from trading on Manc's name than trying to go it alone. Look at all the businesses etc located there, telling everyone they are in Manc. Even the BBC is at it!

I don't propose Bradford sells it's soul and becomes simply West Leeds. What I do propose is building much stronger links and trading on the name. Postcodes, Telephone numbers, addresses etc.

How many visitors to Manc do you imagine stop in Salford hotels? Probably quite a few.
How many to Leeds stop in Bradford? Probably next to none. As you say, not quite as close, but a fast transport link would bring them closer. Look at Xscape Leeds - where is that? Castleford... Look at Ikea Leeds - where is that?... Batley(?)...

MattN

January 16th, 2011, 06:17 PM

You're suggesting that they change the postcode and the phone code and change it to a subsidiary of Leeds on addresses? Why exactly would Royal Mail et al go to such expense? All these things are just there to help the operation of the post/phone services, not to help further anyone else's agenda. Not going to happen.

Ikea at Birstall is mere metres from the city boundary, neither that nor Xscape are really places, just individual destinations which presumably draw people from a wide area so they will use a big place name (having said that, on Xscape's home page it says Castleford).

What sort of fast transport link do you suggest? They are already within 20 minutes of each other, the connections between the two do not jump out at you as being bad compared to anywhere else. Doing it just so people stop in hotels there and jump on this 'fast link' to Leeds is absurd. Still none of you are really offering any insights as to what tangible results you think these vague strategies will deliver to Bradford or the implications for the city centre.

Leeds Troll

January 16th, 2011, 06:28 PM

I'm not bashing Bradford here, but i think it's going to always fail now that Leeds - leads the economic area of West Yorkshire, Bradford unfortunately is in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's too close to Leeds therefore it fails economically, i'm not saying Bradford can't improve itself slightly as time goes on, it's just i very much doubt that Bradford can become sucessful. Leeds imfraid is the hub and financial centre of West Yorkshire urban zone, i think in the future we could see Bradford merging into Leeds as Leeds grows outwards, although that may be a long way off.

LeedsLad

January 16th, 2011, 06:33 PM

All the little things help - perhaps those things cannot be changed. We obviously disagree, but take my points on Xscape, Ikea etc.

Look at this hotel, showing the benefits to Salford: http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1313467_new_holiday_inn_in_salford_given_manchester_name

Bradford needs to decide what it wants to be, being next to Leeds makes it very hard (I don't want that to sound like gloating). Bradford is always going to struggle to be a leader in shopping or business (Leeds/Sheffield has that title for Yorkshire), tourism is pretty much wrapped up by York/the Dales etc - so what's left for Bradford? Perhaps you have a better solution?

Leeds No.1

January 16th, 2011, 06:44 PM

Well, do you have a better idea...?

MattN

January 16th, 2011, 11:37 PM

If either of you could actually articulate what tangible things would result from Bradford marketing itself as being part of Leeds or whatever, I'd be interested to hear it. That and how Wakefield has managed, or Halifax, despite being vastly smaller than Bradford and just as near. It's not always about being a regional 'leader' or a superlative, lots of places aren't but that doesn't mean they cease to have any purpose or existence of their own (like my previous examples).

Since that hotel has been built at media city, a rather large new development due to accommodate large numbers of BBC staff and functions, it does presumably have a rather large market anyway. Also it is within two miles of Manchester city centre and is part of the same urban area (you are in Salford the moment you leave Manchester city centre heading west). These two things make it rather different to someone just building a hotel somewhere in Bradford and saying 'it's near Leeds'.

di Livio

January 17th, 2011, 11:32 AM

Leeds has a certain degree of affluence in the city centre and the prospeorus suburbs, but you could argue there is little difference between the inner cities of Leeds and Bradford, or Manchester for that matter. How has East Leeds benefitted from investment in the city centre? It may as well be situated where Bradford is.

Rob

January 17th, 2011, 11:49 AM

An interesting debate.
I personally don't think that Bradford would benefit from effectively shutting up shop and pretending to be part of Leeds. It is too large an entity, and too independant and different in character (despite being geographically quite close). I think Bradford should try to get back up on it's own two feet, it should develop the centre as best as it can in the long term including working towards a much reduced Broadway scheme, but also continue developing its regional town centres like Keighley, Ilkley, Bingley and Shipley which are a lot of Bradford is made up of.

Leeds No.1

January 17th, 2011, 01:44 PM

But places like Shipley and Ilkley thrive exactly because they have great transport links to Leeds. They're all feeding off the success of Leeds; most are in Leeds' TTWA.

Bradford Centre only needs to act as a local service centre. Otherwise it would be better for it to develop as a place of parks and museums.

As for Leeds, I do think there is difference between Leeds' inner city/East Leeds compared to other cities. They haven't benefitted as much as they should have done, and there are still many parts of Leeds that are pretty bad, but East Leeds is no Mosside. The inner city to the north is definitely not as bad. Armley and Beeston to the south and west must be the worst parts of the inner city, but Holbeck is slowly starting to benefit from the City.

LeedsLad

January 17th, 2011, 01:51 PM

Rob

January 17th, 2011, 06:09 PM

But places like Shipley and Ilkley thrive exactly because they have great transport links to Leeds. They're all feeding off the success of Leeds; most are in Leeds' TTWA.

That is only partly the case, they are also succesful (to a level) in their own right. Most people who live in these semi-independent centres loyally live, work and leisure in them without going to other bigger centres very often, perhaps as an occasional special big trip out. I still believe there is a market for them to have relatively succesful local economies, with an appropriate level of shops and other facilities being available in them.

yorkshiredude

January 17th, 2011, 07:08 PM

Probably shouldn't launch into this, only having the read the last page of the thread, but I will anyway.

I don't think there is anywhere like Leeds-Bradford in the UK. Salford borders Manchester City Centre, likewise Gateshead and Newcastle. Bradford city centre is at the centre of where 300,000 people live - and I think it's big enough to have it's own identity and offer something different to Leeds.

Leeds will always be a dominant city economically, it's retail and culture offer will always be bigger and more appealing - but there is no reason why Bradford can not have its own unique culture and leisure offer and an economy that functions as part of the 'Leeds City Region'. This seems to be the current approach to things in Bradford - there is no evidence of it being successful yet - but when we climb out of this recession, maybe.

Of course, improved rail links to Leeds and Manchester would help the city a great deal.

MattN

January 18th, 2011, 12:51 AM

I don't suggest Bradford close, lose it's name, become totally residential.

I guess in the main what I am suggesting is, that with fast travel times between the two city centres, Bradford city centre could become a viable alternative to the outer reaches of Leeds city centre.

So for example, business may see locating in Bradford City centre, as a viable alternative to say Latitude, or Indigo Blu etc.

At present, Bradford has poor access to the Leeds workforce, train links, infrastructure etc. Put a fast link between the two, and Bradford city centre becomes as quick to get to as the outer city centre. This will become more important if/when HS2 is built. I don't propose one city with one centre, but one city region with 2 centres.

Again - eg hotels. Would I stop in a hotel named Holiday Inn Bradford if visiting Leeds? No. Would I stop in Holiday Inn Leeds City region, ten minutes from Leeds city centre? Perhaps.

You keep talking about this fast link, but the fact is it only takes twenty minutes to travel from centre to centre as it is. How much time would it be possible to take off that? I can't see any such link ever being justified.

You say you wouldn't stop in a Holiday Inn Bradford or whatever, but what name a hotel uses is entirely up to them. If they are trying to target a certain market then they already choose whatever name they think will help, irrespective of whatever spiel the local authority uses so I can't see what you are proposing to change here. If people are visiting Leeds then they will probably just stop in Leeds anyway since I can't imagine how staying in Bradford would be in any way advantageous in itself. It might be a bit cheaper or whatever but then you'd have the cost and the travelling, and certainly where Holiday Inns are concerned I can't imagine the price difference would amount to much or that their customers would be worried over a few quid.

Also the Leeds City Region covers a lot more than Leeds and Bradford, and has many centres of varying size and importance.

MarkJF

January 18th, 2011, 08:51 AM

Matt, with respect, (because I care deeply about Bradford too) you keep asking for an answer that you keep getting given, marketing & perception. Why do you think a motorcycle shop to the West of Bradford, never mind Leeds, is called Ducati LEEDS?

I am moving my business out of Bradford to a Leeds postcode as a soon as I find a suitable unit. Peoples perception of Bradford is of, frankly, a dump. A place, maybe, for 2nd rate businesses who can't afford to be in Leeds, I can't afford that perception for any longer I am afraid.

I'd snap up the offer of a Leeds post code and 01132 number thank you, it would enhance my business immediately.

LeedsLad

January 18th, 2011, 01:15 PM

Matt my point is - locate your office/hotel at/near the Mint or Latitude, and your staff/customers have a 10min+ walk to the station. Bring the rail journey down to 10 mins and Bradford with it's cheaper rents becomes a viable alternative to Bradford.

And if you've ever travelled Leeds/Bradford by train, you will know it trundles at a poor pace for the whole journey at present.

And OK I used the Holiday Inn name, but a range of hotels vary prices depending on location...

As Mark says - it's all about marketing/perception. For years now Bradford has had a bad reputation, whilst Leeds has risen and risen. How do you easily undo all those preconceived misconceptions people have about Bradford?

We obviously disagree and won't change each others perspectives, but those are my answers to your questions.

MattN

January 18th, 2011, 05:11 PM

But ultimately, nobody is going to fund a new railway to halve a twenty minute journey time so that someone might open a hotel in Bradford! And that seems to be what you base this strategy on. Most trains all over Britain and Europe are similarly slow, especially when connecting places so close together.

Nobody is going to change the postcodes or telephone codes either, they exist for the operational purposes of telecommunications and postal operators and nothing else. They might reflect people's preconceptions about the place they concern, but you are of course not going to improve perceptions about a place by covering up all reference to it and pretending it doesn't exist. If this approach was deemed to aid someone's marketing strategy, then I assume they would be expected to fund the massive logistical exercise that changing all these codes would entail, because it would be to nobody else's benefit (certainly not Royal Mail or BT's et al).

Leeds No.1

January 18th, 2011, 05:29 PM

Harpal

January 18th, 2011, 10:05 PM

Not necessarily a new rail line, but an electrified line into Bradford Interchange and/or regular fast services along the line (ie Leeds City - Bradford Interchange - Halifax - Huddersfield) could reduce journey times. An average journey time now of around 23 minutes is poor for a distance around 12km.

Added to this, the rail network only serves the city centre, Frizinghall and north Bradford- which as mentioned, has brought it into Leeds' TTWA. More efficient connections into Bradford stations to connect with rail services into Leeds would do the city well.

As a proud Bradfordian I diagree entirely, what Bradford needs to do is to expand its train stations and possibly connect the two as has been proposed before. The train station should increase its services to big cities without passing through leeds, like the current Grand Central service to London. I know this would be hard to do, with Leeds being the hub that it has been made into. Bradford is a big enough city to warrant its own large train station in my opinion. I dont want to have to pass through Leeds unnecessarily.

Harpal

January 18th, 2011, 11:30 PM

Just seen this on the Bradford Council website about New Victoria Place. It says start date 2011 and completion 2013. So is this going ahead this year? will the Odeon finally be demolished?

New http://www.investinbradford.com/Resources/Invest%20In%20Bradford/Develop%20Bradford/Documents/10%20NEW%20VICTORIA%20PLACE%20%20%20%20%20%20%201%2011%202010.pdf (http://www.investinbradford.com/Resources/Invest%20In%20Bradford/Develop%20Bradford/Documents/10%20NEW%20VICTORIA%20PLACE%20%20%20%20%20%20%201%2011%202010.pdf)

tomd89

January 19th, 2011, 12:57 AM

I must admit this looks pretty nice, the Odeon is an absolute dump at the moment. Aside from the 2 towers, the rest is just a pretty cheap theatre/cinema from the 20s complete with imitation tile stone. Ultimately it would be nice if the two towers could be saved and and incorporated into this new development, but if they have to go this looks a quality replacement.

MarkJF

January 19th, 2011, 09:33 AM

tomd89

January 19th, 2011, 05:57 PM

Harpal

January 19th, 2011, 11:30 PM

It looks "blah" to me. Should complement the Alhambra perfectly!

The Odean is an iconic structure, instantly recogniseable as "Bradford", is the new struture? No! It's another McStructure from anytown just like the banana buidling opposite and what a success that has been.......... We give up our history and sense of permanence far too easily, no wonder Bradfordians are such an apathetic lot, many have nothing to look back on or refer to.

I reiterate I am a proud Bradfordian. These are examples of what makes Bradford better than other cities ala Leeds to me:

Bradford City Hall
http://www.thecabbie.co.uk/images/uploads/thumbnails/1267803807-Bradford%20Town%20Hall70x70.jpg
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/5357/bradford_city_hall.jpg

Cartwright Hall
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/03/31/033170_6222b00d.jpg

Little Germany
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_y3UCnN5oamM/TAVolo1CRnI/AAAAAAAAAE0/lesflRlRSLk/s1600/DSC_5803-copy.JPG
http://www.bradford-apartments.co.uk/resources?type=resource&name=Readin

Lister Mills
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3536/3821922276_4bf1deef26.jpg

Wool Exchange
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3271/2714159900_8b7470a282.jpg?v=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wool_Exchange_roof_Bradford.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/200918766_bba3a32a65.jpg?v=0

St Georges Hall
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/westyorkshire/bradford/Pa117968.jpg

Midland Hotel
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/westyorkshire/bradford/Pa117942.jpg
http://static.laterooms.com/hotelphotos/laterooms/727/gallery/midland-hotel-bradford_030320091920458393.jpg

Great Victoria Hotel
http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/3524/great_victoria/great_victoria_hotel_bradford_600.jpg

Bradford Cathedral
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/westyorkshire/bradford/Pa117952.jpg
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/westyorkshire/bradford/Pa117956.jpg

Yorkshire Penny Bank
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/12498777.jpg

Bradford University school of management
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4578258830_6b5a0dba6c.jpg

Victorian housing
http://imganuncios.mitula.net/mount_royd_bradford_92065897035866461.jpg

Round the corner from my house, Bolling Hall
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2279/2241767398_90e710c0c8.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8667085@N05/2241767396/in/photostream/#/photos/8667085@N05/2241767396/in/photostream/lightbox/
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4435393097_464646a82d.jpg
http://img3.photographersdirect.com/img/28706/wm/pd2427967.jpg

The above all represent Bradford in a better light to me than the Odeon. If the New Victoria Place was built, with the Odeon towers or without, it could be the start of a new buisness quarter in Bradford imo.

albionfagan

January 20th, 2011, 01:36 AM

Aaronj09

January 20th, 2011, 05:40 AM

^ Most bad comments made about Bradford are actually posted by Bradfordians themselves.

Those are lovely pictures, I especially like the Wool Exchange, Bradford has a lot of potential, I think, to be a tourist city like York, many people seem to forget its there though.

gothicform

January 20th, 2011, 06:38 AM

I reiterate I am a proud Bradfordian. These are examples of what makes Bradford better than other cities ala Leeds to me:

Bradford City Hall
http://www.thecabbie.co.uk/images/uploads/thumbnails/1267803807-Bradford%20Town%20Hall70x70.jpg
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/5357/bradford_city_hall.jpg

Cartwright Hall
http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/03/31/033170_6222b00d.jpg

Little Germany
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_y3UCnN5oamM/TAVolo1CRnI/AAAAAAAAAE0/lesflRlRSLk/s1600/DSC_5803-copy.JPG
http://www.bradford-apartments.co.uk/resources?type=resource&name=Readin

Lister Mills
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3536/3821922276_4bf1deef26.jpg

Wool Exchange
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3271/2714159900_8b7470a282.jpg?v=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wool_Exchange_roof_Bradford.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/200918766_bba3a32a65.jpg?v=0

St Georges Hall
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/westyorkshire/bradford/Pa117968.jpg

Midland Hotel
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/westyorkshire/bradford/Pa117942.jpg
http://static.laterooms.com/hotelphotos/laterooms/727/gallery/midland-hotel-bradford_030320091920458393.jpg

Great Victoria Hotel
http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/3524/great_victoria/great_victoria_hotel_bradford_600.jpg

Bradford Cathedral
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/westyorkshire/bradford/Pa117952.jpg
http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/westyorkshire/bradford/Pa117956.jpg

Yorkshire Penny Bank
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/12498777.jpg

Bradford University school of management
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4578258830_6b5a0dba6c.jpg

Victorian housing
http://imganuncios.mitula.net/mount_royd_bradford_92065897035866461.jpg

Round the corner from my house, Bolling Hall
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2279/2241767398_90e710c0c8.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8667085@N05/2241767396/in/photostream/#/photos/8667085@N05/2241767396/in/photostream/lightbox/
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4435393097_464646a82d.jpg
http://img3.photographersdirect.com/img/28706/wm/pd2427967.jpg

The above all represent Bradford in a better light to me than the Odeon. If the New Victoria Place was built, with the Odeon towers or without, it could be the start of a new buisness quarter in Bradford imo.

when we get better weather later this year i am *definitely* going to bradford. these look stunning!

MarkJF

January 20th, 2011, 09:02 AM

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2805/98596301.png (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/98596301.png/)

You really think this gives a good image to those visiting Bradford, looks like the sort of thing that you would find in some depressed seaside town. Yes I admit it would have been a good building in its heyday, but its cheap construction and lack of maintenance mean its way past its best now. It was an excellent theatre, a so-so cinema and now there just isn't a use for it. It's a shame that we can't see a return to its grand theatre heritage but its just not going to happen. The planned replacement looks a little bland yes, but it is of good quality (no grey plastic in sight) and will show some investment in the city, certainly better than a derelict building.

I disagree again. The Alhambra is not a cheap contsruction and it has been there for 80 years, twice as long as the now demolished 1960's centre! How long will the new structure be there? No matter how long, it's still a McStructure that adds nothing to Bradford, never mind complimenting it's neighbouring buildings and no visitor would give it a 2nd look. Lack of maintenance? It has (deliberately) been allowed to fall into disrepair.

IMO you just don't give upon structures like the Odeon, they can never be replaced.

MarkJF

January 20th, 2011, 09:07 AM

Stunning pictures of Bradford, shame this thread full ignorant comments about Braford and seem to care little about it, rather just wanting to add it to Leeds population for bragging rights over other cities.

Don't let them Bradfordians!

The negative comments are not about Bradford per se, but specifically, about the centre of Bradford. They are entirely valid.

di Livio

January 20th, 2011, 10:00 AM

I reiterate I am a proud Bradfordian. These are examples of what makes Bradford better than other cities ala Leeds to me:

Bradford has some of the best deep cut stonework in western Europe, but the images you've carefully selected don't indicate the depressing spaces which can exist between and around those buildings. Many of Bradford's Victorian buildings are dirty and neglected, while the Kirkgate Centre disfigures the main shopping core beyond repair. Don't get me wrong, I like Bradford and spend a lot of time there, but the general feeling most people get from visiting is that it is lacking in prosperity and not really a 'modern' city. Leeds might not be perfect, but there are at least spaces which suggest it has some sense of prosperity and modernity.

Harpal

January 20th, 2011, 11:27 PM

Bradford has some of the best deep cut stonework in western Europe, but the images you've carefully selected don't indicate the depressing spaces which can exist between and around those buildings. Many of Bradford's Victorian buildings are dirty and neglected, while the Kirkgate Centre disfigures the main shopping core beyond repair. Don't get me wrong, I like Bradford and spend a lot of time there, but the general feeling most people get from visiting is that it is lacking in prosperity and not really a 'modern' city. Leeds might not be perfect, but there are at least spaces which suggest it has some sense of prosperity and modernity.

I can see why you would think Bradford is not a modern city, but I think Bradford only lacks in shopping facilities. Its better for eating out, culture and hospitality in my opinion than Leeds. In fact many of Leeds' restaurants have their roots in Bradford. For the best culinary experience you simply have to come to Bradford, thats one of the only attractions that the city makes full use of. Its been tarnished by bad publicity though, like race tensions, which I have never experienced and I feel are always blown out of proportion and I live about a mile outside the city centre. I might be biased, but I have nothing but love for this city. We just have to see out the hard financial times with good old working class grit.

ahillyar

January 20th, 2011, 11:36 PM

MarkJF

January 21st, 2011, 08:49 AM

Skychaser 2005

January 21st, 2011, 07:26 PM

I can see why you would think Bradford is not a modern city, but I think Bradford only lacks in shopping facilities. Its better for eating out, culture and hospitality in my opinion than Leeds. In fact many of Leeds' restaurants have their roots in Bradford. For the best culinary experience you simply have to come to Bradford, thats one of the only attractions that the city makes full use of. Its been tarnished by bad publicity though, like race tensions, which I have never experienced and I feel are always blown out of proportion and I live about a mile outside the city centre. I might be biased, but I have nothing but love for this city. We just have to see out the hard financial times with good old working class grit.

Harpal, what planet are you living on. Leeds City Centre has one of the best restaurant scenes in the UK with over 100 to choose from, with some of the biggest names in the restaurant business in the UK having restaurants in the city, Bradford has one of the worst restarant scenes in the UK. I should know, I work in the city. Yes there are many fine Indian restaurants in the suburbs, but the City Centre has no real choice. It is such a shame, but it is a ghost town and few would choose to have a meal out in the city centre.

Harval, please also explain how Bradford is better than Leeds for culture and hospitality? I am finding it hard to compare the two with Leeds dominating these areas of city life.

Harpal

January 21st, 2011, 07:54 PM

Harpal, name them, the good city centre restaurants, then name ones that do not serve curries, my family don't eat them. You will not be able to name 3. Saying Bradford is better for "eating out than Leeds is plainly ridiculous. Please take a walk around Leeds on a Friday 8pm, then do the same in Bradford. One will be thriving with would-be diners, one will be a ghost town.

Erm lets see...

Chino Thai (its NOT Indian) its Chinese and Thai food.

http://www.chinothai.co.uk/images/frontopic.jpgHeres a great review (http://www.yelp.co.uk/biz/chino-thai-bradford).

Corniche Restaurant
Great Victoria Hotel,
Bridge Street,
Bradford,
BD1 1JX

http://www.hotels-world.com/images/2//org/111/hotelPhoto/7607_Great_Victoria_Hotel.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/2794172882_279eb9d937.jpg?v=0
This offers a mix of Englisha and European influenced food. Apparently Corniche was a White Rose Award Finalist (http://attractions.yorkshire.com/thedms.aspx?dms=13&nearby=1&feature=1&GroupId=3&venue=2182004). Not eaten here yet, but looks quite swanky.

The Russian Restaurant
15 Manor Row,
Bradford,
BD1 4PB -
0871 9606084

http://restoran.us/ukir/rr.jpg

Yorkshire's only Russian restaurant is in Bradford. Read some stunning reviews here (http://www.sugarvine.com/leeds/search/restaurant_search.asp?restaurant=45431)

Napoleons Casino and Restaurant
37 Bolton Road
Bradford
BD1 4DR
01274 391820

http://www.napoleons-casinos.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/FD94E26D-FD3B-48B2-A096-EFAB7819446B/0/rest_lg.jpg http://www.napoleons-casinos.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/5D7B0C08-5AEF-417B-B30A-BDA7EC39A0A1/0/gaming_lg.jpg
http://www.napoleons-casinos.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/DEBDA4E3-20E7-4510-8C04-CB8B74101759/0/cardroom_lg.jpg
This looks like a stunning place to eat, even if its just a full English or fish and chips.

If you like Italian try

Mama Mia
3 Upper Piccadilly
Bradford
West Yorkshire
BD1 3PE
01274 733834

http://www.qype.co.uk/place/332362-Mamma-Mia-Bradford/photos/236713

This is a 25 year old family owned Italian in the city centre, I suppose one difference between Leeds and Bradford is that small family owned restaurants can compete alongside the chain restaurants. Leeds is just like any other city, dull and cut from the same cloth imho.

Angelo's Ristorante and Pizzeria
48 - 50 Great Horton Road,
Bradford,
BD7 1AJ

http://www.bradfordfoodguide.com/images/102625314.jpg

Yes these are all in the city centre and if you like Indian cuisine, then you can go on to the Mumtaz's, Aagrah's, Akbars and Prashad (runner up on Gordon Ramsay's best restaurant), which are about a mile from the city centre. If i'm honest though I avoid these Indian restuarants because they are too busy, I prefer Kashmir Restaurant - which is smack bang in the west end and Omar Khan's. Theres also Lahore's. Im sure if someone wanted to eat out they can afford a taxi. It would cost less than the parking in Leeds city centre.

di Livio

January 21st, 2011, 07:56 PM

Harval, please also explain how Bradford is better than Leeds for culture and hospitality? I am finding it hard to compare the two with Leeds dominating these areas of city life.

Noooooo!!! Let's not have a pointless CityTalk playground fight.

Harpal

January 21st, 2011, 08:00 PM

Noooooo!!! Let's not have a pointless CityTalk playground fight.

Lets just agree to disagree, because Im definitely not backing down from my opinion lol.

aviator

January 21st, 2011, 09:17 PM

Lets just agree to disagree, because Im definitely not backing down from my opinion lol.

Actually, di Livio wasn't disagreeing with you and he's always had encouraging things to say about Bradford.

I don't understand how you think you are helping to fight Bradford's corner by slagging off Leeds. If you think Bradford has a lot to offer and loads of potential (and I'd agree with you), then say so without denigrating its neighbour.

MarkJF

January 21st, 2011, 10:39 PM

Leeds No.1

January 21st, 2011, 11:38 PM

And of course you can get Akbars, Aagrah and Mumtaz in a City Centre location with Leeds.

Aaronj09

January 22nd, 2011, 07:42 AM

OK, Bradford is better if you look to look at old buildings, Leeds is better if you like to have a good time, enjoy shopping, enjoy having shopping centres which are actually under construction instead of a hole, like to get drunk and vomit all over the street and mess up the city centre every Saturday.

See what I did there? I made both Leeds and Bradford look bad!

Harpal

January 22nd, 2011, 07:34 PM

Harpal, give over, that list is pathetic for a City of Bradford's size, surely you can see that?

I've been to all those places.

Chino - Struggling, it's warmed buffetville, you can eat all you want for peanuts.
Victoria/Corniche - Closes an re-opens so often and under so many names I can't keep track. I think the hotel is now in receivership isn't it?
Russian Restaurant - I have been here, I went because I don't expect it to be around for long, it was totally dead. The food and service was very good. If the owners have the sense and/or cash, they should transfer to Leeds, it's an unusual and good menu.
Angelo's - Just a cheap in 'n' out pizza, pasta place neither here nor there, Mamma Mia's is much better but struggling, was very busy place in the late 80's and early 90' but the footfalll has gone.
Casino - 20+ years past it's heyday.

I hoped that you would mention the Russian restaurant because that place deserves to succeed but they are flogging a dead horse in Bradford.

Harpal, the centre is a dining dead zone, be told, these places will be very quiet tonight, Friday! They'll be quiet tomorrow too. You are clutching at straws, as Skychaser had already mentioned, Leeds has over 100 eateries.........

Since when did quantity equate to quality. 100 eateries in Leeds and at least half of them will be mcdonalds and Pizza huts, dont try to deny it. Yes leeds has mumtaz and akbars - but where did they originate, Bradford. You can never beat the original.

As for the nightlife, yes I would say its better in Leeds, but to say Bradford is dead is plain silly. Bradford has clubs that are closer to each other in the west end - I find Leeds is far too spread out. If Bradford was dead - multi million pound clubs like Tokyo's wouldnt survive. Theres no need to wonder aimlessly neither as there's restaurants on the doorstep, other clubs like Flares, Cocos etc and theres still plenty of bars. I bet pound for pound you will find Bradford better imo.