Bradford City Centre Regeneration [Archive]

Dan B

July 19th, 2006, 03:03 PM

Hmmm, thought I'd put up a few pictures of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of the new designs for Bradford City Centre (of course my own opinion but I think you'll find I'm right...).

The Good:

The Gatehaus, Little Germany, Leeds Road

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1082/gatehaus1zc7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Perhaps the best design I've seen that's actually under construction.

www.thegatehaus.co.uk (http://www.thegatehaus.co.uk/)

The Channel (Opposite Forster Square Retail Park)

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5680/thechannelpic3largefx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/1082/thechannelpic1largetd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7679/chan3dcommarch200620lrnl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/9234/thechannelpic2largemi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Definitely one of the key developments for Bradford, the designs here are very interesting and actually surpass some of the designs in Leeds which have been getting a little formulaic. It should also provide a decent station approach into Forster Square Station, similar to the one found when entering Leeds Central Station.

www.bradfordchannel.com (http://www.bradfordchannel.com/home.htm)

Goitside Regeneration (Incorporating Thorton Road, West Gate and the area in between)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9476/714ly5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1636/713fw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5708/712rz4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I like these designs a lot, and the area of Thorton road is in dire need of some attention. The last design is particularly striking with an impressive roof feature and would do well to replace something like Highpoint, though I have seen other designs for this, less good I might add.

www.acanthus.co.uk (http://www.acanthus.co.uk/project.aspx?mid=4&sectorID=7&type=a&pid=209)

Broadway Shopping Centre

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/711/bradfordbroadway1mi2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Although did prefer this design:
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4989/broadwaybradfordkirkgatesqjo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/300/bradfordbroadway2xa0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Not sure what this roof is about though with the beams and overhang, it makes it look like a shed, it'd be fine without.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9164/broadwaylinedraw5hm6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Not too bad, but I'd change that green colour to a more light blue turquoise.

Having put this under good, there is however some other computer generated designs which look pretty awful and give the place the look of 60's buildings, sometimes even of the same view as the sketches:

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3219/debsrearsun2pi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
This is pretty horrible, grimly functional, reminds you of what was there before.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/912/debenhams1qp3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I certainly hope this is not the result and that it turns out more similar to the sketch of this. Look at the buildings to the background to the left and right. Just look at them! 60's carbon copies written all over.

www.benoy.com (http://www.benoy.com.hk/projects/project.asp?ID=36&s=Master+Planning)

www.connectingthecity.co.uk (http://www.connectingthecity.co.uk/)

The Bad:

Odeon Site

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7067/odeon24gejz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Awful, a cold and sterile building.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1462/odeon39lujk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
As generic as can be, let's make Bradford look just like every other city! Plus what would be the point of the screen if they've already put one up in Centenary Square?

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8353/odeon10fbja6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
And as for this one...Well it's the better of the 3, mainly because it retains the towers. But this has a rather silly use of colours, particularly the purple at the front, and what's with all the modernist windows? I thought we tried to escape that era in our history. I know it has a different and distinctive style (but as Mike Priestley put it would ''suffer from Millennium Dome-itis'' and I'd have to agree with him), the original Odeon was distinctive, impressive and imposing all rolled into one. It also would have made for a fantastic concert venue of 3,000 seats, I've been told that it has perfect acoustics and that St. Georges doesn't come close (also how are they going to develop St. Georges? there's no where to go). Even if the structure was unstable, they could've at least retained the frontage and built a new design feature like a glass roof that slopes down like an atrium and comes down at the back, integrating both new and old in the design.

The council doesn't pay much attention to the views of local people, it professes to consult them and then promptly ignores them. It also screams ''Propaganda Machine''.

http://www.kingsdr.demon.co.uk/cinemas/borg.htm

The Ugly

Asquith Residential Tower, Manchester Road

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5483/viewupzw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3444/viewdownpo6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/2323/aerial3dsmkt2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Blurgghh, awful, so bad it hurts to look at it. And look, it comes ready boarded up, so when the bulldozers come in 30 years later, the builders'll be all set for demolition. How could anyone call this stylish? It's horrific and as close to the 60's as we've come, instead using glass a bit more this time. Seriously how could the same architects who came up with the Gatehaus come up with this? Either change the colour of the glass and get rid of that wood or don't build it at all.

http://asquithproperties.com/manchester_road.asp

And thus brings an end to my extensive list. Hope we can have some discussions on the designs.

Oh yes and one last thing, I forgot to put:

The Sad

The Odeon or New Victoria, Princes Way

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/306/12may06am00311661640x480jq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

RIP New Victoria.

di Livio

July 26th, 2006, 10:17 AM

Went over to Bradford yesterday for the first time since last year and the whoile of Broadway has vanished! The whole city centre seems to have improved tenfold overnight.

I wish the same could happen to the Leeds Shopping Plaza.

JOliver

July 26th, 2006, 10:57 AM

Hmmm, thought I'd put up a few pictures of the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of the new designs for Bradford City Centre (of course my own opinion but I think you'll find I'm right...).

Great stuff Daniel, thanks a lot for this thread! Was dying to see the Broadway design, you simly can't find it anywhere!

Mostly agree with your classification, apart from the Odeon proposals, I do admire the colourful variant with preserved towers, it's probably the best thing to happen to Bradford in a long time. Sure when it's built (fingers crossed they select this variant, I know that most of the residents support it, but will they be heard?) it will add a lot of charecter to the city.

One thing which is not mentioned often, Broadway will only cost half of proposed Harewood/Eastgate quarter (350m vs 700m). If this will be reflected in size and quality, Bradford will join Leeds in terms of quality retail space, overnight. Well untill H/E is built, which is a long way yet.

Leeds No.1

July 26th, 2006, 12:27 PM

Bradford Lad

July 26th, 2006, 02:22 PM

I hope the city centre does change quickly! We could end up with 2 metropolises (metropoli'?) as part of one big megalopolis! With Bradford and Leeds as major hubs, it really could be a strong European competitor. Maybe they could put the siteless Kite Tower in Bradford- spark regeneration there!

Yes, Bradford is improving and this will only benefit the wider region. Leeds is the key economic driver for the region but if Sheffield and Bradford could become bigger players than they currently are, the Yorkshire region would become even more competitve than it presently is.

I would love to see West Yorkshire thriving with two metropolises which create knock on effects for smaller towns and cities within the region. Greater cooperation between local authorities will also drive the economic prospects of the region forward.

Dan B

July 26th, 2006, 06:15 PM

Mostly agree with your classification, apart from the Odeon proposals, I do admire the colourful variant with preserved towers, it's probably the best thing to happen to Bradford in a long time. Sure when it's built (fingers crossed they select this variant, I know that most of the residents support it, but will they be heard?) it will add a lot of charecter to the city.

One thing which is not mentioned often, Broadway will only cost half of proposed Harewood/Eastgate quarter (350m vs 700m). If this will be reflected in size and quality, Bradford will join Leeds in terms of quality retail space, overnight. Well untill H/E is built, which is a long way yet.

The colour use is perhaps less extreme than I thought, the blocks seem to have the traditional sandstone colour on the sides facing outwards while keeping the colour within the plaza space. However that front glass part uses bright yellow, purple and pink, these would not be as bad if they were simply lights illuminating the inside areas, but as solid colours along the top, I can't help feeling that looks tacky. My own personal preference would be to keep the building as it is of course doing it up a lot while at it, but at the front where there is currently some horrible concrete on the first floor, replace with a glass entrance, making it more open. The roof also looks a bit concrete-esque so here a glass roof to cover this might be in order, bringing it to slope down around the back to cover or replace the buildings to the back which aren't so nice. At the back here a new public square could be created with say an underground car park underneath. the next address along houses a car dealership currently, and this site (despite being in business I don't think too many people would be sad to see it go) could be replaced with something like the Casa Mela, also now being closer to the college, fulfilling one of it's functions as an introduction to the college. I doubt this'd get listened to, but I think it would be preferable, saving the odeon for use as a decent sized music venue, which is one thing I think the city really needs. St. Georges is too small, apparently has bad acoustics and rarely attracts good bands (Motorhead being the only one I can see in the forseeable future) the rest of the time hosting such acts as Jim Davidson, enough said.

If ofcourse the council go ahead with there plans, I would prefer to see the Casa Mela, hopefully also in the plaza it creates, it could be used for music events like Millenium Square in Leeds. As for people supporting this one the most, this probably is true, however given the option for refurbishment it would be a different story. The majority who posted on some BBC boards here centainly thought so:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/restoration/odeon_cinema.shtml

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/articles/2006/05/12/odeon_options_feature.shtml

As for the second part of your post, it is good to see that Bradford's shopping centre is getting the rough equivalent investment as Leeds. However this is only for the first stage of Broadway, I have seen outlined the second part, which would replace the post office, it makes it almost twice as big. This is a good sign, I just hope there are enough shops and not too many apartments and that the designs turn out more similar to the sketches and not the CG renders.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6393/maplargezh7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This picture shows the extent of the Broadway development, stretching it seems, all the way to Forster Square Station. Channel area is also shown.

Speaking of the channel, I've just heard some dissapointing news about it's development. It seems there are currently debates about it's height and density. It appears they've already had to cut down the height to 13 storeys rather than the 20 storeys shown in the renders (on my above post). I don't know why density and height are such an issue here. This is the perfect spot, just off from the city centre and not really intruding on anyone's view, furthermore actually giving them something to look at. Now Bradford seems to have cut its aspirations short (again).

Read further here:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/newsindex/display.var.847499.0.conflict_over_height_delays_350m_plans.php

Went over to Bradford yesterday for the first time since last year and the whoile of Broadway has vanished! The whole city centre seems to have improved tenfold overnight.

Hmm not exactly overnight, as that space has been empty with not much work going on for a while now, although there's been delays it seems work might start in the second half of 2006. Unfortunately I think I'll have finished Uni by the time it's done, but I might stick around after, I'm hopeful for the cities future and having Leeds nearby is always an advantage.

di Livio

July 26th, 2006, 06:50 PM

Hmm not exactly overnight, as that space has been empty with not much work going on for a while now, although there's been delays it seems work might start in the second half of 2006. Unfortunately I think I'll have finished Uni by the time it's done, but I might stick around after, I'm hopeful for the cities future and having Leeds nearby is always an advantage.

It's important not to underestimate the depressing effect of the old Broadway development.

Val Verde

July 26th, 2006, 08:33 PM

JOliver

July 26th, 2006, 08:33 PM

...I have seen outlined the second part, which would replace the post office, it makes it almost twice as big. This is a good sign, I just hope there are enough shops and not too many apartments and that the designs turn out more similar to the sketches and not the CG renders..

Even more of good news Daniel! Did not know about the post office - it is huge and every time I pass it I think that it is asking for demolition. Not that it's ugly, a typical RM Depot, just the place it occupies right in the city centre.

Combined with the Chanel it would make a great entrance to the city.

I guess to wish something to be done to the retail park there is a bit too much.

Dan B

July 26th, 2006, 08:56 PM

It's important not to underestimate the depressing effect of the old Broadway development.

Certainly, the old Broadway was a horror: dark forboding structures, tacky Reebok, Nike and Addidas symbols up in some of the windows, just general bad architecture. It makes me wonder why they didn't go ahead and get rid of Arndale house as well, the eyesore that it is, which strangely enough looks as though it's bigger from further away; a blot on the landscape if you will.

I just found a few more little pictures of the Channel and Broadway schemes from Robinson Architects who designed the Channel and are doing a few bits and bobs to Broadway. However not all the pictures and renders I see agree with one another, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4565/004qg4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
A sketch of the Channel development

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5891/001vu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
A view of what the new Forster Square might look like, a lot like Millenium Square actually.

I just found another article about Broadway from the T&A about incorporating asian influences into the design. I'm all for the inclusion of asian shops and the like, but I don't see why we can't have neutral architecture. The article also revealed construction would start in the second half of 2007! I'm sorry but I don't see why they have to delay it for that long.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/newsindex/display.var.848452.0.call_to_let_east_meet_west_in_world_class_broadway.php

JOliver

July 26th, 2006, 10:43 PM

I just found another article about Broadway from the T&A about incorporating asian influences into the design. I'm all for the inclusion of asian shops and the like, but I don't see why we can't have neutral architecture.

I think what they are trying to propose is to have a mix of east/west stores, which is not a bad idea, just isn't it a bit early for such discussion, especially as construction is not going to start for another year (sad really!). Also, I would assume anyone who pays the rent can get a space.

What I can't understand - and hope that won't hurt anyone's feeleings - is the proposal to include prayer facilities. In a shopping mall? :shocked:

Dan B

July 26th, 2006, 11:00 PM

Bradford does look an awful lot better with the old Broadway demolished. However isn't there a very small part of it still standing where HMV is (is it to be kept as a reminder of the awfulness of the previous redevelopment in the 1960s?). Also is the new Broadway to be all open air or will parts be enclosed is there ever any plans to demolish or at the very least reclad the abysmal Kirkgate (nee Arndale) centre and why are the majority of shops in Bradford City Centre closed on Sundays. Surely that would give an open goal to out of town developments and also what other major retailers are planning on opening at Broadway other than Debenhams?

An interesting point about Bradford is why there is an empty shop displaying signs for Dillons Booksellers even though that chain ceased to exist in 1999. Has this been empty for 7 years!?

Yeah, I'm not sure why that's been left, especially with Arndale House. The new Broadway seems to be a sort of half open air half enclosed development with glass coverings part way into the shopping centre covering the ground floor, on the second floor there appears to be walkways between some of the buildings. I think some buildings exceed 2 storeys, but I'm not really sure.
As for other major retailers, I believe BHS and H Samuel are also opening stores. I assume BHS taking the other department store in the project.

You can read more here: http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/newsindex/display.var.836852.0.when_will_broadway_building_work_start.php

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Kirkgate Centre would be reclad, but have seen no designs. It's certainly preferable to demolision, seen as it's just gone through a refurbishment inside. I hope they get it right when they do and do it soon. As for the shops being closed on sunday, I'm really not sure, old religious ties? It certainly makes it hard to shop. Another thing should be the opening of shops longer than 5pm in the summer months. The shop you metioned being empty for so long, probably was just that. There are apparently quite a lot of unused buildings in the centre. This is beginning to see a reversal, but because Bradford still suffers from an image problem (Bradford Riots etc.) it is in a bit of a vicious circle; empty buildings, no investment, empty buildings get worse, investment declines. I'm hoping this is coming to an end though now, with new interest and pride in Bradford.

Dan B

July 26th, 2006, 11:06 PM

I think what they are trying to propose is to have a mix of east/west stores, which is not a bad idea, just isn't it a bit early for such discussion, especially as construction is not going to start for another year (sad really!). Also, I would assume anyone who pays the rent can get a space.

What I can't understand - and hope that won't hurt anyone's feeleings - is the proposal to include prayer facilities. In a shopping mall? :shocked:

Yeah, Prayer facilities? I don't think religion should have such an influence in public buildings. This should be reserved for Mosques and Churches. The university does have such prayer facilities, but then half the students are Muslim, so that would kind of make sense.

Neilynoo

July 27th, 2006, 01:43 AM

Dan B

July 27th, 2006, 01:04 PM

I was driving through Bradford at the weekend and noticed a few tower cranes up at the Leeds Road end of town. It was good to see. I worked in Bradford all through the '80s and before Leeds road was widened, would daily visit the Junction Pub at the bottom of Vicar Lane or eat at the Italian restaurant upstairs just by BHS. Bradford seemed quite vibrant then but lost its way in the '90s somehow. Glad the trend is starting to reverse and effort being spent to spruce the place up again.

Indeed and here what they're building and restoring:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3366/eastbrookhallbs6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The restoration of Eastbrook Hall and it's conversion into apartments.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3929/large1on3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The Gatehaus, which will offer 142 apartments and cafe's and bars on the ground floor I think also.

It's nice to see restoration work and designs sympathetic to the built environment (use of sandstone on Gatehaus) while offering up a modern twist (Fin-shaped glass tower).

It's interesting that Bradford took a plunge in the 90's, I always thought things got a bit better after the 80's, but I suppose not in this case. I think with the riots of 2001 it hit a low, I spose a sort of boom and bust, that being the bust. I think it can only get better from now on, provided everything goes ahead. As for such things as italian restaurants, I believe there's a sort of underground one on Market street but can't figure out where exactly. This seems interesting as it gives the city a sort of European flavour, which the built environment offers quite well, it just needs to be utilised. I'm sure the Centenary Square development helped this no end.
Talking of Centenary Square, does any one know what sort of design will come of the building to the back of it where a red crane currently stands? I've heard it'll be apartments (again), I just hope it has an inspired design in such a central location.

Da Bomb

July 27th, 2006, 06:38 PM

Da Bomb

July 27th, 2006, 07:01 PM

Middle East to sink millions into city

By Will Kilner

Middle Eastern investors are being lined up to pour hundreds of millions of pounds into Bradford's regeneration, it was revealed today.

Bosses of the Abu Dhabi firm bankrolling the proposed £90 million student village in Listerhills say their scheme is expected to open the floodgates to other overseas investment funds.

A delegation of businessmen representing four Middle Eastern investment funds will visit the city next month to be briefed by Bradford Centre Regeneration (BCR) on its key future projects.

Mohammed Ikhlaq, chief executive of Projenco Al Khaleej, the Abu Dhabi oil and gas consultants funding the Listerhills scheme, was in Bradford this week to see the five-hectare site for the first time.
continued...

The proposed mixed-use development, which has already been granted outline planning permission, would include student accommodation, shops, restaurants, work units and a hotel.

Mr Ikhlaq said: "If this goes smoothly, the guys who are coming over as part of the delegation will be able to see an example of the exciting opportunities that exist in Bradford.

"This is a great chance for a lot more Middle Eastern money to come into this area.

"But this (Listerhills) is a flagship project which we have to get right."

Mr Ikhlaq said delays caused by planning or land acquisition issues could prove off-putting to other overseas investors who have their eyes on Bradford.

He said: "Traditionally, we have seen a lot of investment from the Middle East in London and the south, but this is the first time we have really diverted our attention to somewhere like Bradford. It's crucial to get it right."

Mr Ikhlaq, who was educated at Cardiff University and now lives in Abu Dhabi, is on the board of three other investment companies. He said he was first attracted to Bradford by the regeneration model presented to him.

He said: "The model of Liverpool and Leeds was offered and we were then told that Bradford was in a very opportune and advantageous position for investment, whereas it was too late for Leeds or Liverpool because it's already happened there."

Mr Ikhlaq said Projenco Al Khaleej's investment in the Listerhills site could rise to more than £100 million if full planning permission is granted for everything proposed. And he said his company was already aware of three more major regeneration projects in the city.

Mohammed Ishtiaq, director of International Energy Projects, the European investment wing of Projenco Al Khaleej, said he was working closely with BCR and Bradford Council to bring about some of the proposed regeneration projects.

He said: "We will invest in the key projects which the city and the Council wants to see."

Marc Cole, BCR's director of regeneration, said: "We are delighted that an investor from as far as Abu Dhabi has seen the potential in Bradford. Mr Ikhlaq's substantial investment in the Listerhills Urban Village will bring student accommodation, hotel, offices and leisure space and will significantly revitalise the area.

"We recognise the importance of attracting investment from national and international sources. We continue to work with new investors to develop a desirable city in which to live, work and learn."

Dave West, regeneration projects manager for Bradford Council, said he also expected the Listerhills project would act as a catalyst to the regeneration of the surrounding area.

He said: "If the Listerhills site becomes a bridging link to help the university and the college link in with the city centre, it's doing a fantastic job."

And Clive Wilson, director of estates for the University of Bradford, said: "The university is trying to remodel itself and if the area around can do likewise the whole learning village becomes more vibrant."

This has since been approved.

£90MILLION URBAN VILLAGE PLANNED FOR BRADFORD CITY CENTRE

24 July 2006

Outline planning consent has been granted for the Listerhills urban village, a mixed-use development which is set to bring student accommodation, key worker housing and leisure facilities to the area. The scheme is being developed by Mi7, with principle investment from International Energy Projects, the investment wing of Abu Dhabi-based oil and gas consultancy Projenco Al Khaleej.

Mohammed Ikhlaq, Chief Executive of Projenco Al Khaleej, said he was first attracted to Bradford by the regeneration model presented to him: “The model of Liverpool and Leeds was offered but we were then told that Braford was in a very opportune and advantageous position for investment.”

The Listerhills development will be located in the heart of the Valley area of Bradford – one of the four distinct regeneration zones of the city centre, identified by Will Alsop’s visionary Masterplan. Bradford Centre Regeneration (BCR) is the local URC tasked with spearheading the renaissance of the city centre.

Mohammed Ishtiaq, Director of International Energy Projects, said: “A couple of years ago we began researching potential investment opportunities in Bradford. After briefings with BCR and Bradford Council we decided to invest in the Listerhills scheme. It is an ambitious project that will become a bridging link to help the University of Bradford and Bradford College connect with the city centre.”

The development will consist of four key phases of building work, with the first stage expected to commence early next year. Phase one incorporates student accommodation, healthcare facilities, a bookshop and a laundry. Bradford University has already agreed to take 500 of the 600 student units, which are scheduled to be completed in 2008.

Plans for phase two feature a 600 space multi-storey car park and 150 residential apartments. The third phase is set to include 150 residential units, varying in size, to cater for key workers such as nurses and teachers. Further retail units are to be introduced on the ground floor, including, a convenience store and café.

The final stage is expected to include a 120-room hotel, 60,000 sq ft of offices and a banqueting hall. Talks are underway with existing building owners in close proximity of the site, to purchase additional land over the next six months. Subject to agreements the development is expected to cover nearly three acres of land and will act as a catalyst to aid the regeneration of the surrounding area.

Commenting on the anticipated benefits of this scheme, Marc Cole, Head of Regeneration at BCR, said: “The Listerhills development is a catalytic project that is set to integrate the education facilities with the Valley Neighbourhood Development Framework and the city centre, whilst triggering more investment and development to regenerate this section of the city.

“This project will bring huge benefits to the area, including the creation of new jobs and the arrival of new businesses that signal the significant confidence in the city.”

This project has triggered a surge of interest from the Middle East. Already there are plans to bring a contingent of businessmen from four Middle Eastern businesses to meet with BCR and Bradford Council to hear more about the key projects involved in the renaissance of the city.

Other planned mixed-use developments

Listerhills urban village is one of many mixed-use projects that are emerging on the city’s skyline, some of these include:

• Gatehaus – the mixed-use development, already under construction, will incorporate residential apartments and commercial offices.

• Channel urban village – the £350million waterside project is set to feature a mixture of shops, restaurants, offices, leisure and healthcare facilities.

• The Odeon – the flagship project will include a hotel, residential and education facilities.

Maud Marshall, Chief Executive of BCR, said: “Bradford has a wealth of iconic buildings and stunning architecture, these new developments will boost the landscape of the city centre and are paving the way to make Bradford a great place to live, work and learn. A range of high-quality mixed-use developments will allow us to compete with other major European countries.”

Da Bomb

July 27th, 2006, 07:04 PM

Talking of Centenary Square, does any one know what sort of design will come of the building to the back of it where a red crane currently stands? I've heard it'll be apartments (again), I just hope it has an inspired design in such a central location.

I think what your talking about is the redevelopment of a pub into 30+ apartments which I have forgotten the name of.

Bradford Lad

July 29th, 2006, 04:13 PM

The regeneration currently taking place in parts of Leeds, Sheffield and Bradford can only benefit the region as a whole. It appears to be an exciting time for the region.

Dan B

July 30th, 2006, 01:10 AM

I think what your talking about is the redevelopment of a pub into 30+ apartments which I have forgotten the name of.

Ah, I've found out, it's called the Empress Pub and will become Empress Apartments:

''New homes could end Empress reign
From the Telegraph & Argus, first published Tuesday 26th Oct 2004.

A landmark apartment building may be built on the site of the Empress pub in the heart of Bradford city centre.

Councillors will tomorrow consider a planning application by IDS Ltd of Horsforth for an "unashamedly modern" building overlooking Centenary Square on the prime site.

The 1970s pub beside the modern Aldermanbury office block would be pulled down if the regulatory and appeals committee approves the move.

And officers are recommending members to approve plans for a building which would contain a car park, offices and 40 apartments including penthouses with bird's eye views of the changing face of the city.

The proposal for the seven-storey building in Sunbridge Road comes as an unprecedented boom in city living hits Bradford.

Asquith properties and Landmark Development Projects are the main companies which have transformed existing buildings into scores of apartments which have been quickly snapped up by buyers.

Asquith has almost finished building a new development and is about to construct another in a car park at the junction of Manor Row and Hamm Strasse.

Today the plans for the building on the site of the Empress were welcomed by Marc Cole, director of operations for Bradford Centre Regeneration - the joint venture company set up to spear head the renaissance of the city centre.

He said: "I think it is a substantial improvement on what is there already.

"The mass and scale fit and anything bringing more residents in the city is welcome."

He added the use of the ground floor for offices would also bring vitality to the city during the day.

Bradford Council planning manager Dave Preece will tell the committee the existing building is an eyesore which does not make a good contribution to the architecture and history of the area.

He will tell members the new building would be "unashamedly modern", but would respect the proportions and solidity of the Victorian buildings beside it.

Committee chairman Councillor Stanley King (Con, Heaton) said: "On the face of it, it looks a good development. It looks as though it will blend into the street scene.

The design has a hint of the late 1930s facade of Sunwin House."

Russell Baker managing director of Asquith Properties said: "It is an endorsement of Bradford city centre as a place to live."

And Richard Morton director of Landmark Development Projects Ltd said Bradford should encourage more modern architecture.

The committee will be recommended by Mr Preece to approve separate applications to demolish the pub and construct the new building.

The developers propose using stone, glass and coloured panels and the building would have a flat roof.''

So 7 storey's and the first floor is offices. Shame they didn't return the first flloor to it's original function; a good old pub. Perhaps they could've added a floor and put the offices on the second floor. I mean who wouldn't want to live on top of a pub, you'd live at your local. Ah well, spose your surrounded by establishments there, but no real pubs. Aside from that it seems it'll be ''unashamedly modern'' but apparently similar to Sunwin House, which looks like this:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2711/g1936acz6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Although It's gone under a refurbishment since then which I can't understand why, as it now looks worse:

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/4263/sunwin1sj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2171/sunwin2ap5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hopefully the councillor was commenting that it looked like the original 30's design and not the refurbished one. Still can't find any designs, but the site currently looks a bit like this:

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4214/7e884fe2df63fbb2ab48fa3715e1b83b405640x480qh9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah, bit unconstructed. Just hope it's imposing enough as it'll be overlooking Centenary Square, some sort of geometric roof feature would be nice, but apparently it has a flat roof, we'll have to wait and see again.

Anyway, onto to Listerhills Urban Village. This seems good, as what's there currently is hardly the pride of victorian style warehouses, it's pretty run down to be honest. The designs I've seen for this are very good actually, seems to have an older influence in some of the designs, like Georgian crescent terraces:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/62/villagesquarevz9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Sort of archaic, but a really interesting idea, I like it. There is also some newer looking buildings in this project:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4128/studenthallssmallersk9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A lot of the new designs are in Adobe Acrobat format though, so I'll put a link to that in at the end. As for the investment here, the project is supposed to be part of the 'Ecoversity' project at the Uni and should incorporate Carbon costing, wind power and solar panels, so I'm a little worried that some of these guys are associated with oil companies and such. Hope it doesn't hinder the project's original aims. In other University related news, I've discovered a webcam showing the progress of the new atrium building, which looks almost done:

http://www.brad.ac.uk/admin/estates/A13013.php

The site also says it will be used for music events. I certainly hope so, it would be ideal.

Anyway here's the link to an Adobe Acrobat presentation:

http://www.brad.ac.uk/admin/ecoversity/resources/ecoversity.pdf

Rob

July 30th, 2006, 08:16 PM

That looks like a really great development for Bradford University, with an increase in volume and most of all quality facilities for students. It will certainly help overturn the problems the university has reportedly had in attracting students, as they will be coming to impressive new facilities and residential developements rather than slummy old ones.

A great step for Bradford as a whole, as students boost the local economy no end.

Leeds No.1

July 30th, 2006, 08:36 PM

Rob

July 30th, 2006, 08:39 PM

It's probably not so much Bradford, more to do with the poor facilities and fairly run down area it is in (although the facilities are improving all the time). Hull University is in one the best areas in Hull near some very nice housing, and has some really good halls of residences etc.

Dan B

July 31st, 2006, 02:02 AM

I didn't know Bradford was finding it hard to attract students.. With nothing against Hull, Hull is a much worse place and attracts lots of students! Maybe Bradford should market itself as a forward thinking city, and use Leeds as an advantage. For example it could boast that Leeds was less than half an hour away and then go onto what Leeds has, to get people to go to Bradford. Marketing means advertise to the target- more than advertising. Thats what is important for Bradford to consider.

Hmmm, could be hinted at, but I'd disagree on the whole on making this central, it'd be like selling out the city just cause it's close to Leeds. Bradford has to assert it's own identity more, which is what the regeneration is all about. They did try and market the Uni on it being a cheap place to live, and I have admit that got me here, my other major choice being Bath Spa, which would've cost the earth and while looking nice is not a huge city, may get bored quite easily, not so if you have Leeds next door and some fairly good entertainments in the city itself. Of course Leeds shouldn't be ignored, it's very handy, but Bradford has a really good Museum, twinned with that excellent cinema facilities (Pictureville & IMAX aswell as the cinema complex) and decent Theatrical facilities (Alhambra in particular).

That looks like a really great development for Bradford University, with an increase in volume and most of all quality facilities for students. It will certainly help overturn the problems the university has reportedly had in attracting students, as they will be coming to impressive new facilities and residential developements rather than slummy old ones.

A great step for Bradford as a whole, as students boost the local economy no end.

Now as for a few other things, I can see why there's a been a downturn. The first most prominant was the riots. I read an article on the BBC that suggested there was a drop in students right after this happened. It has however increased, seeing its largest increase this last year. Where else it fails though are on such things as Nightlife and Music. Although there's an easily manageable collection of bars, clubs and pubs and you can get a pretty decent pub crawl, there just isn't enough of them. Bradford was also deemed the second to last out of 22 for its nightlife. The ''west-end'' is far too small and needs to expand beyond that if it is to encourage some decent business. Students and other people see it as being a bit rubbish and so go to Leeds, there then is fewer people out in Bradford and demand might decrease as a result. The only way to break the cycle is to provide more. Don't get me wrong I like a number of the bars and clubs in town and the Love Apple and Wetherspoons are nice additions, but the rest aren't too classy and there just isn't enough. A jazz club would be nice.

Music is the other thing. It's hard to spot a decent gig in Bradford and there's only really St. Georges Hall, Rio's and a place called the Town and Country (county?) Club which are big enough gig venues to hold bigger bands. The Odeon would have helped this out, but the council are too busy developing mixed use apartment-hotel-office-restaurant-cafe-culture-thingies. They want to sort this out if they ever want to increase business in the city centre and stop the exodus over to Leeds.

As for your point on slummy accomodation, I don't think they were awful, there is some asbestos in some halls but they're knocking them down, they're also knocking all the other 60's looking one's down as well, but your point is taken, this will definately encourage more students. Just to show you the extent of demolision of these here's a rather crudely edited aerial photograph of the area, which also shows where the Listerhills development will be and it's relation to other city centre developments:

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6456/bradfordcitycentreeditedjpgbn0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The red crosses signify the demolision of the student halls, the white area is the student village, the blue shows room for expansion, the yellow circles shows a nice area of houses discussed below and the green is the areas of city centre developments to put it in perspective with the rest presenting the Bowl area, The Odeon, Broadway, The Channel and Highpoint. Bit meticulous I know, but I think this shows the extent of what's going on.

It's probably not so much Bradford, more to do with the poor facilities and fairly run down area it is in (although the facilities are improving all the time). Hull University is in one the best areas in Hull near some very nice housing, and has some really good halls of residences etc.

Hmm, facilities aren't so bad, it's all fairly competent, but of course I'm all for improvement and enlargening the campus with further facilities cannot be a bad thing. As far as teaching goes and learning facilities it's not bad at all though, decent library aswell. I read the University also came 3rd for science in the UK after Oxford and Cambridge, pity I don't do science! As for the surrounding area, I'd say this was partly true. The Shearbidge area is a bit run down, I'd know I'm living there next year, plus those two dark satanic mills up there don't help (a clean-up would do it well though) also next door to a tipping zone. However in the main student area between Great Horton Road and Morley street there are some rather nice houses, good pubs as well. I recommend The Westleigh and MacGrory's on Easby Road. Cheers!

Bradford Lad

August 11th, 2006, 12:17 PM

Interesting times regarding the regeneration currently taking place within the cities.

Dan B

August 12th, 2006, 02:42 PM

As I mentioned before about the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of the new developments, some guy's written a book about the Good, the Bad and Ugly of the already built enviornment. Here's the BBC report, thought it might be of interest:

'The Good, the Bad and the Ugly!'
Chris Hammond is passionate about Bradford's architecture, so much so that he's just published his very own walk around the city centre pointing out not only the best but the worst buildings along the way.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6468/architecturecityhall203203x152gv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Bradford: An international city?

Chris Hammond believes that buildings tell you a lot about a place. He says: "All you need to do is lean back and let buildings speak to you." As a trustee of Bradford Building Preservation Trust he has led several walks around the city centre. Now he's made his walking "notes" available in a new book, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1595/architecturesunbridgehouse203203x152wm8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The good?

We asked Chris if he had to name his favourite building in the city, what would it be? He believes his answer may surprise some people: "I think the good thing, part of it, is Centenary Square and that really is a really great success story - the development of the bars, and so forth, complements City Hall as well as the streets leading off. But I think my favourite building has got to be a curious one - it's the old Co-Op building on Sunbridge Road which looks a little bit like a ocean-going liner. It's designed in what is called the international style. It's just been listed as a building of special historical interest, the same as the City Hall has. To me it gives a little whiff of the seaside in Bradford. It's very much modelled on a pavilion in Bexley-on-Sea in an international open sanatorium sort of style."

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1446/highpointzj0.png (http://imageshack.us)

And his least favourite? "It's a choice between the Arndale Kirkgate Centre, a sort of semi-windowless block of concrete, or just above it, the former West Yorkshire Building Society - that great almost windowless block, which, if you come from outside Bradford on the hills, you see this monster sticking up. I say to people on the walk, it's a little bit like the Ministry of Love in George Orwell's novel, 1984. Out of the four ministries, this was the most horrific - windowless of course, it's a torture place. Orwell says people didn't go near the place because of the guards around it. To me that's Bradford's equivalent."

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5938/architectureforstersquare465465x200wi6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The ugly? These buildings have now gone!

But despite these 'warts' Chris has a lot of good things to say about the look of the city centre. Many of its buildings, he believes, reflect a time when Bradford regarded itself as an international city with trading links stretching far across the world: "There's a huge wealth of Victorian buildings still remaining in Bradford. A large swathe was demolished in the 1960s." Now buildings put up in the 1960s and 1970s are being demolished: "You've got this great big empty space in the centre - in some ways it would be nice if it stayed an empty space with market stalls and things."

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6224/architecturekirkgate203203x152tc0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The bad?

Chris adds: "Above that, and around Manor Road and Cheapside, you've got some wonderful bank buildings and classical buildings and mills and warehouses. Quite unlike, say, Leeds. I think the architectural quality of some of the buildings in Bradford exceeds Leeds quite considerably. If you go back 40 years, Bradford certainly was a wealthier and architecturally better endowed city than Leeds. It was also much more of an international city too. Leeds was still a West Yorkshire town, but Bradford was a little bit like Liverpool, with merchants from all around the world buying and selling wool and cloth and so forth. The architecture reflects that. Bradford is like Liverpool or Glasgow in the aspiration of its buildings and it still reflects this even though in the 1960s a huge amount was demolished in the city centre as a huge redevelopment programme got underway, but that's all gone now.

"When the redevelopment went up people thought it was a good thing - dirty black Bradford after the war then new white Portland stone buildings with safe underpasses separating the pedestrians from traffic. Of course, it all went sour. The buildings weren't very well built, the limestone didn't fit in very well, the underpasses instead of being safe became quite the opposite. The deterioration in social behaviour which took place in the late 60s was quite unforeseen by the architects and developers of the time, so it became almost out of date ten years after being built."

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/2613/architecturekingjohn203203x152dd5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Looking up! King John tears up the Magna Carta

But as a new look city centre starts to take shape, what's to stop this happening again? Chris is optimistic: "I'm quietly confident. We're not going to get a Norman Foster or Richard Rodgers to do it, but the architects are a good commercial practice...I think the big plus for the proposed development is that it's going to be clad in Yorkshire stone and it will link in Little Germany with the city centre which the previous scheme blatantly didn't. It's also going to link in with the Aire corridor up towards Shipley where there are proposals for canal-side villages. So it's not just a city centre redevelopment, it's looking at the whole structure of the centre of Bradford which is very promising.

"Good architecture is a key factor to attracting people into the city - architecture like we find in Centenary Square and the extension at the back of Waterstones bookshop in the Wool Exchange which is superbly done. If we get that quality of building it will at least emulate in some way the Victorian buildings too."

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/7900/architecturewoolexchange203203x152dc1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Looking up: Bradford's great Wool Exchange

Chris suggests we all look more closely at the buildings around us: "The thing about architecture is you don't need to know lots about it. All you need to do is stand back and let the building speak to you. Be careful not to get mowed down by cars or other shoppers, just take a bit of time and look up at the upper storeys which are often unchanged and which people don't normally see...I think in general people notice the smaller buildings more than they notice big ones. People's vision is limited to ground floor level, they probably never look up at tall buildings and the details above them." His new book will help us do just that!

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly is published by the Bradford Building Preservation Society. The Society buys and converts redundant buildings that other developers are unlikely to take on. For more details check out the BBPT website.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/articles/2006/08/10/bradford_architecture_walk_feature.shtml
http://www.bbpt.org.uk/index.asp

I'd mostly agree with him here. It does look like the Yorkshire Building Society Building or Highpoint will get a complete reworking:

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/120/image1glassgd0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5845/5vz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.pulselifesupport.co.uk/highpoint.html

Of course anything's better than what it is, but I'd of prefered something like one I mentioned before:

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5075/712xs2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Would've stood out much more, Hope it gets put in somewhere in the city.

As for other ugly buildings, I'd add these to the list:

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/1835/arndalehousegb9.png (http://imageshack.us)
Arndale House

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/5638/jacobswellphotocq0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Jacob's Well

Hope they're demolished as soon as possible. A replacement for Arndale House would be a good spot for a tall Skyscraper, standing out from the rest.

Bradford Lad

August 12th, 2006, 06:23 PM

The new found confidence in the regeneration of our built environment is not only good for attracting inward investors into our towns and cities but it also encourages more people to relocate to Yorkshire.

Rob

August 12th, 2006, 07:11 PM

Dan B

August 12th, 2006, 08:43 PM

The Pulse site mentions this Highpoint conversion starting in spring. Has work started yet ?

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/120/image1glassgd0.jpg

It will transform central Bradford, as the ugly block can be seen for miles as it is on such a high elevation, to transform it into an attractive and taller building will look great and almost dominate the Bradford skyline. It'll start to give Bradford a little bit of a 'city look' back.

I haven't been up that way in quite a while so I'm not sure whether anything's being done. On my last visit to Bradford last monday, I had a look across the city from the top of the Richmond Building, it didn't seem like anything was going on, but I'm used to things being delayed. But the addition of 4 floors will make it even more of a landmark while completely altering it's Aesthetics. Still would've hoped for perhaps a better design element, something a bit more striking and the use of a sandstone colour would've helped, while it can be done incredibly badly (police station), it can work (Law Courts), but anything's an improvement. I think (from counting windows) that it'd be 13 storeys now. Anyway, there's a couple of pdf's here of the Market region development covering the Highpoint designs. There's a bigger picture on the first and on the second another proposed version (curved building with a rather interesting roof):

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0861EB51-4E4C-4DA0-BB21-6426764345D1/0/6RecommendedApproach.pdf

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0C457A20-9CBB-4DD2-AF6C-1002CF975F45/0/7PriorityInterventions.pdf

Bradford Lad

August 13th, 2006, 12:28 AM

I for one cannot wait until some of these developments and conversions are completed.

Dan B

August 13th, 2006, 12:26 PM

I for one cannot wait until some of these developments and conversions are completed.

Yeah, me too, though not sure if I'll see it all by the end of my time at Uni. As for progress, I counted 5 cranes in the city centre the other day. 3 on Gatehaus, 1 on the restoration of Eastbrook Hall and another on the Empress Pub Apartments site. I'd expect this number to rise dramastically once Broadway and further still The Channel get on the go. Just wish it wasn't delayed till the second half of 2007. I read the first phase of the Gatehaus should be finished by the end of this year, with the glass fin completed by late 2007. Things are looking up.

Speaking of Eastbrook Hall, it now has an official website:

http://www.eastbrookhall.com/

Oooh, Quick update, Highpoint is now listed on skyscrapernews.com, it has been approved and will be 13 storeys and 40 meters high, bigger picture as well this time:

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/6403/4895highpointpic1wk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/

di Livio

August 13th, 2006, 12:39 PM

The 'World Mile' idea sounds fantastic, and quite similar to one i had for Leeds a few years ago.

Bradford Lad

August 13th, 2006, 11:53 PM

The 'World Mile' idea could bring further benefits to the city by attracting people from outside Bradford to visit this unique shopping zone.

Dan B

August 14th, 2006, 02:39 PM

The 'World Mile' idea sounds fantastic, and quite similar to one i had for Leeds a few years ago.

The 'World Mile' idea could bring further benefits to the city by attracting people from outside Bradford to visit this unique shopping zone.

It seems this'll mainly be put in practice through a shake-up of the road network an improvement in shop frontages to 'go' with the building more and trees and such. More an aesthetic improvement than a vast overhaul and rebuilding work. It seems that the one way bus loop will help no end, leading to an increase in pavement width and the pedestrianisation of many roads up the top of the Market. I find it hard to get around up there, so this de-scalement of roads will aid such a world mile. The covered street (hopefully like an arcade) by Highpoint should be encouraged. More of these arcades like they have in Leeds. Hopefully the project will go through, and we'll see the benefits in a few years.

Da Bomb

August 14th, 2006, 10:00 PM

Bradford Lad

August 14th, 2006, 11:48 PM

Da Bomb

August 15th, 2006, 03:28 PM

NEW VICTORIA PLACE CHOSEN AS WINNER IN DESIGNER-DEVELOPER COMPETITION

New Victoria Place, designed by Langtree Group plc, Artisan and Carey Jones Architects, has been announced as the winner of the international designer-developer competition to develop Bradford’s Odeon site.

The mixed-use development will create a vibrant new public square framed by four new buildings offering premium offices, high quality affordable studios and one, two and three bedroom apartments. With a new 100-bedroom hotel and an exciting three storey café and restaurant facing the new square and the Alhambra Theatre, New Victoria Place will be a landmark in Bradford.

Investment in New Victoria Place, which will kickstart the office market in the city centre, will be in the region of £55m. Subject to planning approval, work on site will commence in the summer of 2007, with the development scheduled to be completed in 2009.

Judged against criteria outlined at the beginning of the competition, the Langtree/Artisan/Carey Jones entry outscored entries from the other two highly competitive finalist teams - Bioregional Quintain/Studio Egret West and PPG Land Limited/Dyer. The final decision was made by a panel of experts, including renowned architect Glen Howells.

Launched nearly 18 months ago the prestigious competition received 18 expressions of interest from acclaimed architects and developers. Finalists were selected in September 2005 with final proposals received in March this year. This was followed by an extensive public consultation.

The criteria for judging the winner were cost, deliverability and viability, architectural quality, contribution to cityscape, innovative design, maximisation of development potential and programme.

New Victoria Place was particularly commended for its strong and commercially sustainable financial plan. The development will be built speculatively and is not dependent on any pre-let units.

Langtree, Artisan and Carey Jones Architects have extensive experience of designing and developing similar schemes, transforming neglected areas into highly desirable locations and playing a key role in the regeneration process.

Maud Marshall, Chief Executive of Bradford Centre Regeneration (BCR), said: “I’m delighted to announce New Victoria Place as the winning entry. The scheme is crucial in the regeneration of Bradford. High quality mixed-use developments are essential to booming UK cities. New Victoria Place will ensure Bradford is able to emerge as a major northern city, moving it forward, as it begins to stand shoulder to shoulder with cities such as Leeds and Manchester.

“Offering a strong, commercially sustainable development which has an extremely strong business model, New Victoria Place will play a crucial role in the city’s renaissance.”

Councillor Andrew Mallinson, Regeneration and Economy Portfolio Holder at Bradford Council, said: ”It has taken a significant amount of time and expertise to ensure that Bradford benefits from the best possible scheme for the former Odeon site. The winning group has demonstrated not only a stunning, deliverable design but also the track record and experience to make it happen.”

Jan Anderson, Executive Director of Environment, for Yorkshire Forward, said: "Renaissance on the scale of the Odeon site takes a long time to deliver and is a long-term investment. The first phase of the scheme has resulted in the selection of the New Victoria Place scheme as the one which will bring the most benefit to the City of Bradford, and continues the transformation of the city centre.”

Simon Peters, Regional Director of Langtree Group, said: “We are proud to be selected as the winning team and we believe that New Victoria Place will be an important landmark for Bradford, and a key fixture in the huge regeneration of the city. Not only will the development set an architectural benchmark in the city, it will also give Bradford the facilities needed for it to really prosper.”

Carol Ainscow, Chairman and Chief Executive of Artisan, added: “We share Bradford’s vision for the future of the city and are delighted that we will now be part of delivering that vision. The whole team looks forward to working with Bradford Centre Regeneration and the people of Bradford to deliver a place of which we can all be very proud.”

Mike Harris, Director at Carey Jones Architects, concludes: “We are proud that our scheme has been selected from a shortlist of three such highly respected design-development teams. We believe our unique design coupled with ‘cutting edge’ residential and commercial expertise fulfilled the judges’ criteria to be innovative, sustainable, distinctive and ultimately deliverable.

“Langtree, Artisan and Carey Jones now look forward to delivering a high quality mixed use scheme that will provide the city with a new public square and a vibrant 21st century leisure destination that complements Bradford’s historical fabric.”

Bradford Centre Regeneration will now work closely with the winning designers/developers to ensure the design is of the highest standard and the facilities are appropriate.

Key information on New Victoria Place:

• Around 80,000 sq ft of premium office space
• New 100-bedroom hotel
• 205 apartments
• Leisure/retail space covering 10,000 sq ft
• Around 20,000 sq ft planned to be taken up by Bradford College
• 124 parking spaces

Here are some images of the winning proposal.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4179/arialzl8.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6532/publicsquarelr4.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/983/hotelji0.jpg

A truly fantastic development. Love the black hotel.

Just what Bradford has been crying out for!

:)

Dan B

August 15th, 2006, 05:02 PM

Here are some images of the winning proposal.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4179/arialzl8.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/6532/publicsquarelr4.jpg

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/983/hotelji0.jpg

A truly fantastic development. Love the black hotel.

Just what Bradford has been crying out for!

:)

You must be joking? What we have here is an awful piece of generic toss.

Lest we forget what we're getting rid of here:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3076/newvicja9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I wouldn't mind so much if this was put somewhere else, say the remaining bit of Broadway or instead of that out of place car showroom just up the road, but right on top of what is already a landmark is complete lunacy. This council never ceases to amaze me in it's complete rejection of the public's view. You can see from their pdf document on the consultation shown on the URC website that those that hinted at prefering the Casa Mela were in the majority by about 100 'votes', and what about that initial poll in the T&A where something like 87% voted to retain the towers. On that judgement I would have provided schemes which all included this. No one mentions the 4,000 sign petition to save the Odeon either. Here is certainly a case of Bradford bulldozing it's history (again).

''All the more shame to it.'' - J.B. Priestley

JOliver

August 15th, 2006, 05:15 PM

Dan B

August 15th, 2006, 06:29 PM

Bitterly disappointed by this decision. What was the point in "public consultations", if they are completely ignored? As Daniel, I would not mind this development anywhere else in the city, but please not on this site. Sorry to be cynical, but was Carey Jones involved because they know how to deal with local councils? I do hope the development will meet strong opposition at planning phase, and personally will submit an objection (even if it to be ignored).

The Council? Under Carey Jones's thumb? Why NEVER!

Hahah, yeah, it's a sure thing, the Scots Lady Maud Marshall, head of the BCR doesn't know much about Bradford, she commented at the meeting to discuss the Odeon's future with the Bradford Odeon Rescue Group how she disliked the Odeon's ''50's'' design. 50's? 50's?!?!? It was built in 1928! It even said so in their leaflets. The fool. This is a complete disregard of the past, atleast the SEW design included some of the former building.

As for Maud Marshall, would you trust this woman?

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/3347/maudmwp4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BBC also have an article on it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/articles/2006/08/15/odeon_decision_feature.shtml

They also mention how the former building played host to both The Beetles and The Stones, I read elsewhere that John Lenon left a 'was here' note in the back stage area, and it allegedly has fantastic acoustics, not to mention an art deco ceiling above the piece of crap they put to cover it during the 60's. Surely a building with this much history could only be used for one thing: a fairly large concert venue. While the red brick is a bit off and the concrete on the ground floor is horrendous, the white stone work and green turret roof are immaculate. Of course you must ignore the weeds growing, which by the way the council refuse to get rid of (I wonder why), but this is all restorable. Why they couldn't just house the development to the back of the Odeon instead of that makeshift carpark and car dealership I don't know. They seem to have something against it. By now you'd think they'd get rid of the 60's buildings first and foremost, yet many are still standing.

As for their plans on St. Georges,I can't see what they're gonna do. There's no where to go with the T&A being right next door; the only way they could expand. 1,500 seats is widely considered a small concert venue, why I might add it doesn't attract many major bands. I've also heard this has awful acoustics. The Odeon would have been capable of twice the seats.

The rejection idea sounds good, I might write one too. Organise a protest? Heheh.

Of course this website is in favour of Skyscrapers but let's see this in perspective and sense people. This development could be anywhere and should be in place of some dump of a patch of wasteland not an iconic cinema of the 30's, the golden age of cinema. It might increase the height, but doesn't gain anything in heritage, it stands to make Bradford a more generic city. As for Multi-culturalism, that building has a moorish style already, we're actually demolishing a building that stands to vary the architecture from various influences and compliment the Alhambra next door. Aren't we also forgetting the big 3: Museum, Theatre, Concert Venue? The 'west end' should've had this addition, but instead it'll have a few offices, apartments and a few resturants or cafe's. Really doesn't add much does it? Plus being barely open to the public as a site for yet more living space or work space.

The council are fools.

Oh and to further my argument, I just found some interior shots prior to it's 60's overhaul (which by the way has not actually taken away any of this, just covered it up). I didn't even realise it was this good/big. It is truely huge:

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4690/nvint1vu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7034/nvint2pk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.kingsdr.demon.co.uk/cinemas/newvi3.htm#intro

Bradford Lad

August 15th, 2006, 06:50 PM

Actually this was the best option of the three. Leeds and other major cities have had these kind of developments before and i for one believe it to be a very good design.

The big screen really stands out on the development. BCR are working hard to deliver a thriving, modern and sustianable city centre for Bradford. Over 40 different projects are underway or about to commence.

Once all these developments are built Bradford will hopefully take its place as a leading British city. The regneration currently taking place within Yorkshire's major cities will only benefit the long term success of the region.

Bradford Lad

August 15th, 2006, 06:52 PM

Actually this was the best option of the three. Leeds and other major cities have had these kind of developments before and i for one believe it to be a very good design.

The big screen really stands out on the development. BCR are working hard to deliver a thriving, modern and sustainable city centre for Bradford. Over 40 different projects are underway or about to commence.

Once all these developments are built Bradford will hopefully take its place as a leading British city. The regneration currently taking place within Yorkshire's major cities will only benefit the long term success of the region.

Da Bomb

August 15th, 2006, 08:16 PM

di Livio

August 15th, 2006, 08:26 PM

di Livio

August 15th, 2006, 08:27 PM

Priestley could never forgive Bradford council for demolishing the Kirkgate market, and he was right. I'm disgusted with this decision but not entirely surprised.

Bluegate74

August 15th, 2006, 08:42 PM

Bradford is not the only city that blatenlty disregards the views/petitions of the local people unfortunately. You just have to look over the Pennines to Manchester who went to great lengths to get peoples views on the redevelopment of Picadilly gardens, a commenst book was set up in the town hall for peoples views, mostof whom were against building over half of the gardens and even more against the concrete pavillion that was planted facing the bus staion.

Surprise, surprise the book 'disappeared' when the publics views were called in and the resulting abortion of a scheme, losing a third of the space went ahead regarldess.

In Liverpool also, there was huge public concern over the demolition of 'Quiggleys' a large Victorian building houseing crafts shops and creative industries, but it was bulldozed regarldess, despite it being shown that it could have been accomodated into the much larger schemes for the area it stood in.

The Labour party has done its utmost to stifle debate and public consultation, in all aspects of life lately, and its set to get even worse in the planning/development sphere, if they get there way to fast track large, controversial schemes and deny the public their say. :scouserd:

You must be joking? What we have here is an awful piece of generic toss.

Lest we forget what we're getting rid of here:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3076/newvicja9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I wouldn't mind so much if this was put somewhere else, say the remaining bit of Broadway or instead of that out of place car showroom just up the road, but right on top of what is already a landmark is complete lunacy. This council never ceases to amaze me in it's complete rejection of the public's view. You can see from their pdf document on the consultation shown on the URC website that those that hinted at prefering the Casa Mela were in the majority by about 100 'votes', and what about that initial poll in the T&A where something like 87% voted to retain the towers. On that judgement I would have provided schemes which all included this. No one mentions the 4,000 sign petition to save the Odeon either. Here is certainly a case of Bradford bulldozing it's history (again).

''All the more shame to it.'' - J.B. Priestley

Rob

August 15th, 2006, 09:00 PM

Dan B

August 15th, 2006, 09:09 PM

I also thought this was the best proposal of the three.

I understand that Bradfordians want to hold on to their heritage but each time I see this building it looks worse and worse and probably beyond repair.

To me personally it doesn't hold any wow factor.

I suppose tastes are tastes, but I still think this new build is nowhere near as unique as the Odeon, the only twin towers in the centre, not to mention it's shear capacity for large scale events, something lacking with the current Bradford music scene being practically non-existant, unlike Leeds which has many venues. As for being beyond repair, it'd be nice if Yorkshire Forward would've actually let in an inspector, which B.O.R.G demanded. They did agree to have one, still no news on whether they actually got an independent inspector.

Priestley could never forgive Bradford council for demolishing the Kirkgate market, and he was right. I'm disgusted with this decision but not entirely surprised.

Bradford is not the only city that blatenlty disregards the views/petitions of the local people unfortunately. You just have to look over the Pennines to Manchester who went to great lengths to get peoples views on the redevelopment of Picadilly gardens, a commenst book was set up in the town hall for peoples views, mostof whom were against building over half of the gardens and even more against the concrete pavillion that was planted facing the bus staion.

Surprise, surprise the book 'disappeared' when the publics views were called in and the resulting abortion of a scheme, losing a third of the space went ahead regarldess.

In Liverpool also, there was huge public concern over the demolition of 'Quiggleys' a large Victorian building houseing crafts shops and creative industries, but it was bulldozed regarldess, despite it being shown that it could have been accomodated into the much larger schemes for the area it stood in.

The Labour party has done its utmost to stifle debate and public consultation, in all aspects of life lately, and its set to get even worse in the planning/development sphere, if they get there way to fast track large, controversial schemes and deny the public their say.

Sad, it really is sad and is really a pity to see that the same thing's been happening elsewhere.

However to bring some brighter news or atleast mixed which I posted on another thread, but found relevant to the regeneration effort as a whole:

''Also some further news to mention. Skyscrapernews have an article on the Channel Development and list what I'll dub 'Spiral House' as a 22 floor, 67m building. It also mentions they haven't said whether this one's height'll be compromised yet. Hopefully not. Anyway here's the story:

http://img343.imageshack.us/img343/4349/thechannelpic1largecm4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

2006-08-15 > Divided Opinions On Bradfords Channel

You wouldn't think of Bradford as much of a skyscraper city and you'd be right but if Magellan Properties get their way this could soon be changing.
The Channel is the centrepiece of the Will Alsop master-plan to regenerate the centre of Bradford from one of Britain's dingiest cities, raped by decades of industrial recession, into one of the brightest.
Magellan have hired Robinson Architects to design the detailed work of the scheme that will include over a dozen blocks creating 2600 new homes, trendy bars, offices and hotels all overlooking the 1 million gallon piece of water the development is named after, all costing a cool £350 million.
Unfortunately the developers have hit a hitch, Bradford City Council. The council are upset over the height of the scheme and have already had some of the taller buildings in it reduced to 13 floors although the tallest building, a spiral tower of 22 floors seems to remain at present. All of this is still far above the 5-7 maximum that the area is supposed to have according to the master-plan.
Some argue that reducing height, and by implications density, would reduce the prestige of the whole scheme that is supposed to be the centre-point of 21st century Bradford, a strange decision when almost every other city in the UK is building bigger and size does matter.
Critics also say that it shows just how out of touch the council are with the urban realities of today, particularly when they so desperately need increasing amounts of urban regeneration and are not in the position to pick and choose that other cities such as Leeds now find themselves in.
Supporters of the council claim that the master-plan shows a good and idyllic image of what Bradford could be like and just because other places do it, or developers want it, there's no reason to sacrifice quality for an overbearing development.
Rather than get into an intractable position both sides are now looking to an independent panel to thrash out once and for all. This will create a delay on the scheme of several months but the end result should be a design that everyone can live with.

http://www.skyscrapernews.com/index.php

Hopefully the council will make a good decision on this (for once). But looking at Skyscrapernews, you'd think Bradford was certainly on the up, having 3 mentions and having two skyscrapers added to its list in the last few days.''

Dan B

August 16th, 2006, 02:20 PM

The loss of the old cinema building with it's unique dumpy towers and all it's history is a great loss to Bradford, I would agree entirely.

However, this building was really lost some years ago, it is derelict beyond repair, structural surveys carried out recently found corrosion in the structure beyond what is economically viable and the building is generally beyond economical use anyway. It could probably stand there unused for many more decades collecting cobwebs, but is that what Bradford wants ? Isn't that the image that Bradford is now trying to shake off ? The whole city has been sat derelict collecting cobwebs for decades while most other cities have moved on at a pace, I don't think this has done Bradford any favours. It is now thankfully finally showing the first signs of movement at last.

The winning proposal had to be this one, it couldn't be any other. One loosing proposal was too clinical and souless for this site, the other was a little too 'wackey', the winning design was the only balanced and sensible option. It is definately not 'generic toss' it is actualy quite a good collection of modern but conservative architecture in a well balanced and thought out mid-size development, it suits and sits in this sensative site quite well.

Oh it is, and a lot of people agree with me:

BORG victory - Odeon to be assimilated
Submitted by Baht At on Wed, 16/08/2006 - 10:14. Blind Smileys
The supporting fiddle is reporting that Maud the Borg has succeeded in destroying one of the better buildings in Bradford so that it can be replaced by a featureless glass block. Interestingly it also reports that the previous allegations that the building was structurally unsound were complete utter rubbish and that the only reason for demolishing this piece of Bradford history is on the flimsy grounds of economics - given the past history of economic considerations leaving vast holes in Bradford (the Rawson Market fiasco, the current Broadway fiasco) it's a fair bet that the building will be demolished to leave a building plot when the developers decide that only more bland city-living cells are economic and that a landmark building just won't wash.

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11741

Here's the T&A Article:

''It's the end for Odeon twin towers
Exclusive By Will Kilner

An artist's impression of the winning design

The former Odeon cinema and its twin towers will be demolished after a radical scheme was picked for the redevelopment of the site.

The T&A can exclusively reveal that The New Victoria Place' mixed-use design has been chosen by a panel of expert judges in an international design competition.

The winning scheme outscored two other finalists - one of which would have retained the former cinema's distinctive twin towers. The proposal, which will see investment of about £55 million, is designed by Langtree Group, Artisan and Carey Jones Architects.

It will create a vibrant new public square framed by four new buildings offering premium offices, affordable studios and one, two and three-bedroom apartments.

continued...
With a new 100-bedroom hotel and a three-storey caf and restaurant facing the new square and the Alhambra Theatre, New Victoria Place is designed to be a landmark in Bradford.

The development will also include 124 parking spaces and about 20,000 sq ft of space earmarked for use by Bradford College to provide a city centre presence.

It is hoped the scheme will revitalise the offices market in the city centre.

Subject to planning approval,work on the site will start in summer 2007, with the development scheduled to be completed in 2009. Maud Marshall, Chief Executive of Bradford Centre Regeneration, which ran the competition, said: "I'm delighted to announce New Victoria Place as the winning entry.

"The scheme is crucial in the regeneration of Bradford. High quality mixed-use developments are essential to booming UK cities.

"New Victoria Place will ensure Bradford is able to emerge as a major northern city, moving it forward, as it begins to stand shoulder to shoulder with cities such as Leeds and Manchester.

"Offering a strong, commercially-sustainable development which has an extremely strong business model, New Victoria Place will play a crucial role in the city's renaissance."

Councillor Andrew Mallinson, Bradford Council's executive member for regeneration and economy, said: "It has taken a significant amount of time and expertise to ensure that Bradford benefits from the best possible scheme for the former Odeon site.

"The winning group has demonstrated not only a stunning, deliverable design but also the track record and experience to make it happen."

Jan Anderson, Executive Director of Environment, for Yorkshire Forward, which owns the Odeon site, said: "Renaissance on the scale of the Odeon site takes a long time to deliver and is a long-term investment.

"The first phase of the scheme has resulted in the selection of the New Victoria Place scheme as the one which will bring the most benefit to the City of Bradford, and continues the transformation of the city centre."

Pick of the top landmark ideas

Today's eagerly-awaited announcement on the Odeon cinema follows an 18-month process which began with the launch of a prestigious designer-developer competition.

The competition encouraged teams to come up with ways of transforming the derelict site to create a new landmark for Bradford.

The proposed redevelopment of the site is a flagship project for Bradford Centre Regeneration and Yorkshire Forward, who hope it will come to symbolise the ambitions of the city centre.

The Odeon site, bought by Yorkshire Forward in May 2003, is considered to have strategic importance in the wider regeneration of the city.

The difference of opinion regarding the future of the site prompted an intense public debate in June this year.

Representatives of the Bradford Odeon Rescue Group (BORG) clashed heatedly with leaders of the Bradford Centre Regeneration team, who ran the designer-developer competition.

Since the debate, residents have expressed annoyance that the cinema has been allowed to become overgrown with weeds, creating a city centre eyesore. Yorkshire Forward has said it would not be the best use of public money to remove the weeds.

With the intensity of feeling and nostalgia surrounding the former cinema, today's announcement is unlikely to be the end of the discussion, with the next steps in the process likely to create more interest.

It is expected that a planning application will be submitted by the developer in Autumn this year.

The contest itself sparked immediate interest and there were 18 expressions of interest submitted by top-rated architects and developers.

Three finalists were selected in September 2005 with final proposals received in March this year.

The final decision, announced today, was made by a panel of experts, including renowned architect Glen Howells.

Before the decision was reached, an extensive consultation process took place to gather views from the public.

The consultation involved an exhibition at the National Museum of Photography, Film and Television where the plans were showcased.

More than 3,000 people visited the exhibition to inspect the plans and offer opinions.

Other core consultation channels included Bradford Centre Regeneration's website and the post, with 3,524 leaflets mailed to Bradford residents.

A total of 16,500 leaflets were distributed across the district and 1,493 feedback forms were completed and returned.

A detailed report on the consultation process, released to the Telegraph & Argus today, concludes that "the total number of positive responses received outnumbered negative comments expressed."

A total of 44 per cent of participants liked the fact that the designs offer a connection to the heritage of the city, while 36 per cent said the designs had an appealing appearance.

Older people were more likely to mention the city's heritage than younger residents, according to the consultation report.

When responding under the category "reflects Bradford's heritage," 36 per cent of residents believed it was important to retain the original towers from the existing building, while 12 per cent said it was important to have a mix of old and new in the designs.

BCR said a good cross-section of the community had taken part in the consultation, with nearly equal proportions of men and women represented and a good spread of different age groups.

The modern appearance of the buildings was also mentioned as a positive factor by 13 per cent of participants.

Although the feedback forms did not prompt residents to express a preference between the three designs, 337 chose to do so.

Casa Mela got the nod from 221 respondents, New Victoria Place was the best design in the eyes of 87 people, while the Pivot attracted 34 votes.

A total of 12 per cent said they did not like any of the three designs and the same percentage thought the existing building should be renovated.

The physical appearance of designs was the main thing people disliked about the proposals, with 55 per cent expressing their dislike.

There were fears that the style of the buildings could be seen anywhere, with 13 per cent saying the designs did not reflect the area.

Concerns were expressed that the building materials were impersonal, were not harmonious with the city centre, were too modern and too tall.

Judged against criteria outlined at the beginning of the competition, the Langtree/Artisan/Carey Jones entry outscored entries from the other two highly competitive finalist teams - Bioregional Quintain/Studio Egret West and PPG Land Limited/Dyer.

The criteria for judging the winner were cost, deliverability and viability, architectural quality, contribution to cityscape, innovative design, maximisation of development potential and programme.

New Victoria Place was commended for its strong and commercially-sustainable financial plan. The development will be built speculatively and is not dependent on any pre-let units.

Langtree, Artisan and Carey Jones Architects have extensive experience of designing and developing similar schemes, transforming neglected areas into highly desirable locations and playing a key role in the regeneration process.

Simon Peters, regional dDirector of Langtree Group, said: "We are proud to be selected as the winning team and we believe that New Victoria Place will be an important landmark for Bradford, and a key fixture in the huge regeneration of the city.

"Not only will the development set an architectural benchmark in the city, it will also give Bradford the facilities needed for it to really prosper."

Carol Ainscow, chairman and chief executive of Artisan, added: "We share Bradford's vision for the future of the city and are delighted that we will now be part of delivering that vision. The whole team looks forward to working with Bradford Centre Regeneration and the people of Bradford to deliver a place of which we can all be very proud."

Mike Harris, director at Carey Jones Architects, said: "We are proud that our scheme has been selected from a shortlist of three such highly-respected design-development teams. We believe our unique design coupled with cutting edge' residential and commercial expertise fulfilled the judges' criteria to be innovative, sustainable, distinctive and ultimately deliverable.

"Langtree, Artisan and Carey Jones now look forward to delivering a high quality mixed-use scheme that will provide the city with a new public square and a vibrant 21st century leisure destination that complements Bradford's historical fabric."

Bradford Centre Regeneration will now work closely with the winning designers and developers to ensure the design is of the highest standard and the facilities are appropriate Plans to demolish the current building and replace it with a new development have angered some residents of the district.

There will be a further chance for residents to comment on the scheme and the application will be determined by Bradford Council by Spring 2007.

Work is expected to start on site during Summer 2007 and is due for completion in 2009.

Why the twin towers could not be saved

BCR says a structural report of the Odeon building shows that retaining it is possible, but not financially viable.

A guide for companies wanting to develop the city centre site was drawn up by council officers before the competition was launched.

The paper outlined the Odeon's historic importance and that any replacement must be a "landmark".

It told developers that retention and refurbishment of the Odeon, while possible, was not financially viable.

It also made clear that a part-demolition with the retention of the towers was not possible because of structural issues.

THE LOSING FINALISTS

Bradford Pivot (PPG Land Limited and Dyer).

Mixed-use building to shop, relax, learn, live and work.

Lower floors containing retail and leisure space

Articulated facade creating a partially-covered public space which the main entrance atrium opens on to.

Education space above a Yorkshire stone podium.

Pedestrians able to pass through the building on this level.

Residential, office and restaurant upstairs.

Casa Mela (BioRegional Quintain and Studio Egret West).

A graceful building on the outside illuminated by Bradford Festival colours on the inside.

Towers retained and miniature towers added.

Mixed use development of hotel, homes, flexible workspace and front-of-house facilities for Bradford College.

A Grand Foyer' - a triple height covered public meeting space.

Flexible space to host events, including drama and music.''

''A total of 44 per cent of participants liked the fact that the designs offer a connection to the heritage of the city, while 36 per cent said the designs had an appealing appearance.

Older people were more likely to mention the city's heritage than younger residents, according to the consultation report.

When responding under the category "reflects Bradford's heritage," 36 per cent of residents believed it was important to retain the original towers from the existing building, while 12 per cent said it was important to have a mix of old and new in the designs.

BCR said a good cross-section of the community had taken part in the consultation, with nearly equal proportions of men and women represented and a good spread of different age groups.

The modern appearance of the buildings was also mentioned as a positive factor by 13 per cent of participants.

Although the feedback forms did not prompt residents to express a preference between the three designs, 337 chose to do so.

Casa Mela got the nod from 221 respondents, New Victoria Place was the best design in the eyes of 87 people, while the Pivot attracted 34 votes.

A total of 12 per cent said they did not like any of the three designs and the same percentage thought the existing building should be renovated.

The physical appearance of designs was the main thing people disliked about the proposals, with 55 per cent expressing their dislike.

There were fears that the style of the buildings could be seen anywhere, with 13 per cent saying the designs did not reflect the area.

Concerns were expressed that the building materials were impersonal, were not harmonious with the city centre, were too modern and too tall.''

Note: 221 respondents suggested Casa Mela, compared to 87 and 34. It has the majority by about 2/3rds. Plus 55% expressed dislike at the look of the proposals. While the article says it would be difficult to retain the Odeon or the towers, it does not say it is impossible. It is not ''Financially Viable''. Sort of reminds of that film Falling Down, where a man being dragged into a police car shouts out ''I am not economically viable''. So cost rather than any sense of history governs this more. For life of me, I can't figure out why they didn't shift the design up the road a little on to a bigger site, turned the buildings round 90 degrees, placing the public space between the current Odeon and the new development. I say again: who cares about a car dealership (apart from Owners and Boy racers of course) There are so many places that could be rebuilt, without a cry of destroying the history.

There's also a video you can view here, featuring the infamous Maud the Borg:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/index.php

Anyway, a few more people that back my thoughts:

''Fight goes on to save Odeon say campaigners
By Will Kilner

Campaigners have vowed to battle on to block plans to knock down the former Odeon cinema and replace it with a striking new building.

Yesterday the Telegraph & Argus exclusively revealed that "The New Victoria Place" design had won an international design competition for the redevelopment of the site in Bradford city centre.

The radical proposal, which sweeps away the existing building, has angered some people who wanted to see the twin towers, if not the whole cinema, retained and restored.

Others have welcomed the proposed mixed-use building, saying its hotel, apartments, offices, caf and restaurant will attract investment to the West End.

continued...
But the Bradford Odeon Rescue Group (BORG) has vowed to continue fighting the demolition of the former cinema, despite yesterday's announcement by Bradford Centre Regeneration, which ran the competition.

Although the New Victoria Place design has won the competition, beating off opposition from a design which would have retained the twin towers, it must still go through Bradford Council's planning process.

It is at that stage that BORG now intends to make an impact, lobbying planning officers and members of the planning panel to block the scheme. A Bradford Council spokesman said: "The proposals for the Odeon will require planning consent.

"When an application is submitted it will be advertised for three weeks and during this period members of the public will be able to make representations for and against the proposals."

Bradford historian Andrew Bolt and Bradford Civic Society have also expressed their dislike for the winning plan, which they say has no regard for the history of the city or the Odeon's surroundings.

But the scheme has received a cautious welcome from city centre Councillor Sajawal Hussain (Lab), who enthused about the major investment.

He said: "I think it's a good idea to have some sort of investment in the city centre. It will create new jobs.

"This current building is very old and does not look good at all but, having said that, I have reservations about getting rid of the historic features.

"I think things such as the towers should have been preserved and a lot of people share that view.

"Their opinions should have been taken into account during consultation."

Meanwhile, Bradford North MP Terry Rooney said it was great to see something of "architectural merit" replacing the Odeon.

And Maud Marshall, Chief Executive of BCR, said the mixed-use building would be crucial to the city's regeneration.

The new development will create a vibrant new public square framed by four new buildings offering premium offices, affordable studios and apartments.

There will be a 100-bedroom hotel and a three- storey caf and restaurant, as well as space set aside for Bradford College.

e-mail: will.kilner@bradford.newsquest.co.uk

VIEWS ON TOP PLAN

Bradford North MP Terry Rooney: "The reality is there's no architectural merit in the old building. It's sad, but it's come to the end of its life. It has been an eyesore for a long time and I'm glad something of merit is going to replace it."

Norman Littlewood, Bradford Odeon Rescue Group: "We have worked so hard and this news is very disappointing. There are very few people who like what they are going to replace it with, but they are steamrollering forward. We will continue to fight the demolition."

Bradford historian Andrew Bolt: "I think it's a disgrace. A building like that should be preserved because of its status in the city. Its rounded format makes it look palatial. The past Lord Mayor of the city, William Illingworth, designed the building and we owe it to him to save it."

Anthony Mann, chairman of Bradford Civic Society: "Out of all three designs, that one is probably the more hideous and unimaginative. It is modern architecture at its worst. In ten years it will look outdated, in 20 it will look scruffy and in 30 they will want to knock it down.''

I wouldn't quite say it is the worst of the 3, the pivot would've been dire, but certainly he's got it right when he says it's unimaginative.

Plus this new development is focused towards offices, and sure enough they are needed. However, there are so many other spaces ample for this development, as I mentioned above. The city also needs entertainment. MUSIC!!! St. Georges, while a nice building, just isn't big enough, and is more suited for classical concerts. It cannot cope with the new reverb and such from modern instruments.

At the very least Casa Mela, would've if not retained, rebuilt the towers carefully, integrating it well with a more exciting design. Wild colours aside, it was certainly a favourite with the public and detailed the possibility for music events there, nothing I can see for Victoria Place, which has a complete detatchment with the public, the nearest you get is a 3 storey restaurant and hotel, neither being exactly free. I know you have to pay to see music, but it certainly would be more a public building, an entertainment venue, which is truely huge. While it would be hard work to restore, it is not detailed as impossible and I think people keep making the mistake of seeing it how it is rather than how it could be, something I saw at one of the university's galleries, with a render of how it might used to have looked, with Alhambra style lights, looking truely fashionable.

I don't think we've heard the end of this. Hopefully residents will kick up a fuss about their views being considered and then promptly ignored, so a bunch of elitist architects could make the decision for them.

J.B. Priestley in English Journey (written in the 1930's) prided the city on it's local democrary, I think he'd be ashamed of it now.

JOliver

August 16th, 2006, 03:05 PM

I envisage mass opposition, if not fight against demolition, if it is to go ahead. So many people seem to take it close to their hearts.

Rob

August 16th, 2006, 07:08 PM

So many people seem to take it close to their hearts.

But do they ?

''When responding under the category "reflects Bradford's heritage," 36 per cent of residents believed it was important to retain the original towers from the existing building''

Bearing in mind this is 36% of the mere 1493 respondants, the other 400,000 odd Bradford district residents obviously aren't too bothered !

JOliver

August 16th, 2006, 08:22 PM

Well do not forget, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Also, there were NO direct questions about retaining towers, so people must have just added this as a comment, like I did for example, which just make this number look different.

In general I agree there are relatively few people that would raise their voice in similar situation. But in this case I just hope it will be enough to be heard.

Dan B

August 16th, 2006, 09:27 PM

But do they ?

''When responding under the category "reflects Bradford's heritage," 36 per cent of residents believed it was important to retain the original towers from the existing building''

Bearing in mind this is 36% of the mere 1493 respondants, the other 400,000 odd Bradford district residents obviously aren't too bothered !

Well they only handed out approx. 16,000 and in the city of Bradford itself there are closer to 300,000 as aposed to the district. As for low turn out don't ever underestimate the power of apathy, not just in Bradford but in any city.

As for the main point you made:

''A total of 44 per cent of participants liked the fact that the designs offer a connection to the heritage of the city, while 36 per cent said the designs had an appealing appearance.

Older people were more likely to mention the city's heritage than younger residents, according to the consultation report.

When responding under the category "reflects Bradford's heritage," 36 per cent of residents believed it was important to retain the original towers from the existing building, while 12 per cent said it was important to have a mix of old and new in the designs.

BCR said a good cross-section of the community had taken part in the consultation, with nearly equal proportions of men and women represented and a good spread of different age groups.

The modern appearance of the buildings was also mentioned as a positive factor by 13 per cent of participants.

Although the feedback forms did not prompt residents to express a preference between the three designs, 337 chose to do so.

Casa Mela got the nod from 221 respondents, New Victoria Place was the best design in the eyes of 87 people, while the Pivot attracted 34 votes.

A total of 12 per cent said they did not like any of the three designs and the same percentage thought the existing building should be renovated.

The physical appearance of designs was the main thing people disliked about the proposals, with 55 per cent expressing their dislike.

There were fears that the style of the buildings could be seen anywhere, with 13 per cent saying the designs did not reflect the area.

Concerns were expressed that the building materials were impersonal, were not harmonious with the city centre, were too modern and too tall.''

Note: 221 respondents suggested Casa Mela, compared to 87 and 34. It has the majority by about 2/3rds. Plus 55% expressed dislike at the look of the proposals. While the article says it would be difficult to retain the Odeon or the towers, it does not say it is impossible. It is not ''Financially Viable''. Sort of reminds of that film Falling Down, where a man being dragged into a police car shouts out ''I am not economically viable''. So cost rather than any sense of history governs this more. For life of me, I can't figure out why they didn't shift the design up the road a little on to a bigger site, turned the buildings round 90 degrees, placing the public space between the current Odeon and the new development. I say again: who cares about a car dealership (apart from Owners and Boy racers of course) There are so many places that could be rebuilt, without a cry of destroying the history.

Yes only 36% STATED that, however 221 people as apposed to 87 and 34, highlighted the Casa Mela as their choice. This in turn means the retention of the twin towers. As I said above 2/3rds favoured the Casa Mela thus the towers remaining and a large public support. No doubt if a 4th option of complete and extensive renovation of the building was added, that would be the larger majority, though I spose it still wouldn't help seen as they make a habit of not listening to the public.

My personal view as highlighted above would be the Victoria Place put instead of most of Car Dealership next door, the demolition of a few run down buildings inbetween the two and the creation of a much larger square, as well as perhaps a foyer (a la Casa Mela) to the back of the Odeon building instead creating a very active square for music and cultural events, both indoor and outdoor. The pedestrianisation of Princes Way and part of Thorton Road would also help this, with a tunnel going underneath. This would also create links with the rest of Goitside, extending the west-end with some new clubs or bars or gig venues out of some of the old mill buildings there.

I can dream anyway.

JOliver

August 16th, 2006, 10:21 PM

Yes only 36% STATED that, however 221 people as apposed to 87 and 34, highlighted the Casa Mela as their choice. This in turn means the retention of the twin towers. As I said above 2/3rds favoured the Casa Mela thus the towers remaining and a large public support. No doubt if a 4th option of complete and extensive renovation of the building was added, that would be the larger majority, though I spose it still wouldn't help seen as they make a habbit of not listening to the public.

I tried to remember what the question were, and all of them - if I am correct - were of very generic type, i.e. "do you think design is important", I should have felt something was way dodgy in it back then, but it was my first "public consultations" experience.

Anyway, life goes on. After all, if a super-casino decision goes for a pair of cowboy boots, is there anything left to be surprised?

JOliver

August 17th, 2006, 12:09 AM

Nice link Daniel (http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk), just found there:

At the Odeon, Bradford Centre Regeneration is exhibiting three designs at the National Museum of Film and Photography for its destruction. The plans were described by Blind Smiley Group spokesman Maud Marshall as "high quality plans". Given that two of the three plans are bog standard glass faced carbuncles that architects dump anywhere without consideration for the surroudings I'm not quite sure what she's been smoking but can I have some? The other plan "Casa Mela" has no chance of being built since it looks like some thought has gone into trying to fit in with the surrounding area rather than sticking out like a sore thumb.

Da Bomb

August 17th, 2006, 12:59 AM

I might have to take back my original statement and vote for the restoration of the "twin towers".

J.A.W

August 17th, 2006, 03:56 PM

i am so apalled and disappointed about the odeon plans - theres only 1 out of 3 that keeps the beautiful and valuable towers and that one is a spanishy childish mish mash that belongs in disney. i tell you - if that is built it will be demolished within 20 years if not less. I wouldnt consider demolishing the towers - they are a valued landmark by us Bradfordians if not the council, and the WHOLE biulding is vastly superior to any of the proposals, and could be easily restrored - interior reconstructed for a meaningful attractive use, there is a great big wasteland across the road staying empty and scruffy in prime land, where they can develop, but why knock down something so perfectly iconic to US so it can be fully appreciated again and im talking about it all not just the towers - they would look crao standing there alone with a primary coloured lego invading their well deserved environment they could knock some windows into the palin brick walls, and have a nice civilised courtyard in the middle or something - the interior is so flexible if you cleared the cinema stuff out

Val Verde

August 18th, 2006, 10:58 AM

J.A.W

August 18th, 2006, 01:33 PM

Unfortunately Bradford council is Bradford council - its no leeds with its organised and appreciative heritage body - its too determined to compete commercially and livivng all my life here - bradford council works for tself - not bradfordians - and it wouldnt hesitate to flatten the troublesome 'uneconomic' odeon building (like it did to kirkgate market or the arcade) for something that brings in more commerce.
Im glad that other people seem to be equally sceptical about the disgraceful options put forward. its sad that bradford puts all its effort into a ludicrous and impossible and very unpopular alsop masterplan thats so incredibly nonsensical and when it comes to the really important issues of preserving the actual spirit of the city, its all too quickly rushed through with very little thought and consultation so we end up with yet another glossed over series of regeneration opportunities that in Bradford council style - are either monotonous but lucritive insensitive developments or disgustingly inappropriate and childish fantasies
Bradford does have a rich past that is supposed to enrich our city, but it is being wiped out in place of monotonousisation and faceless international and meaningless CRAP

Dan B

August 18th, 2006, 02:55 PM

Looking at the proposals for Highpoint only fills me with great disappointment as I feel it is very much an opportunity missed.

With its elevated position it can be seen from all gateways into the city centre.

I personally think that this building should be completely demolished and replaced by a tall iconic building of considerable quality.

What on earth are the BRC thinking of re-cladding the single worst building in the whole of Bradford!!!

I think the Bradford locals should be asking the BRC for an explanation for some of the proposals being put in place.

I really think Bradford is just one tall iconic building away from people to start standing up and taking notice of what’s going on in the city and putting it well and truly on the map. Until that happens there isn’t much hope I’m afraid.

Just bringing us back to the Highpoint development for a second. I think these two would've been more the thing you're thinking of Da Bomb, far better designs:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5696/highpointdesignaf0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I like this one, looks a bit fantasy land-ish, but not Alsop-ish (God No!). The windows don't look so defined, and maybe white stone or sand stone would texture the building a bit more. The Glass arcade by it looks a nice idea, bringing back the arcade to Bradford.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4625/712uh7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
As for this one, it fits in well with the rest of the building and the roof adds an interesting feature, almost reminiscent of the Sydney Opera House.

They are both preferable to this one:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7042/4895highpointpic1tz7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Which by comparison is particularly unimaginative. Still though, anything's an improvement.

J.A.W

August 18th, 2006, 03:00 PM

is this highpoint in place of the brown concrete corduroy building opposite morrisons?

Da Bomb

August 18th, 2006, 03:47 PM

is this highpoint in place of the brown concrete corduroy building opposite morrisons?

Yepo!

As for the other designs Daniel they are a little better, but i think they should be replacing this building with something in the 20-30 stories range. A real beacon for the new Bradford.

J.A.W

August 18th, 2006, 04:19 PM

But i love that building! It may be the the most insensitively brutal object for miles, but its so impressive, its just temporarily out of fashion - in a couple of decades wed wish it was there again, theres so much about it that is superior than any of it's replacement options, like its stone-coloured concrete - needs cleaning thats all, its geometry is satisfying and dramatic and the architecture is quality just in its fashion - black spot of 30 or so years. Im telling you by 2030 itd be listed. i arent joking - we criticise bradford council for demolishing the old market back then, but as we dont have foresight we cant see that we are doing the same thing. We do need to demolish lots of bad qaulity 60's and 70's developments because they were nasty and cheap, but this is an satisfying quality landmark, that needs a good scrubbing and 20 years to be appreciated. But these relacement designs seem as rushed and cheap as the hated 60s stuff demolished around broadway. I can think of acres and acres of wasteland on prime sites begging to be developed, not demolishing good examples of architecture. When we're adjusted to mid 20th century design, the current tower will be more highly valued than the Kohinoor building nearby or even the odeon as an interesting building from the past in need of protection.

J.A.W

August 18th, 2006, 04:44 PM

i sound like a crackpot dont i

Dan B

August 18th, 2006, 05:11 PM

I tried to remember what the question were, and all of them - if I am correct - were of very generic type, i.e. "do you think design is important", I should have felt something was way dodgy in it back then, but it was my first "public consultations" experience.

Anyway, life goes on. After all, if a super-casino decision goes for a pair of cowboy boots, is there anything left to be surprised?

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/4330/odeonformot5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here's the form, it's very non specific, you can't exactly vote on it. If they'd have provided 4 options: entirely new (Pivot), some element of the original building (New Victoria Place, just barely!), Retention of Odeon Towers (Casa Mela) and Complete Renovation (New Victoria Concert Hall, as suggested by B.O.R.G.) with the ability to actually vote, fair would have been fair. However the way they've gone about it is far from democratic for instance jumping the gun with an initial vote in the T&A, not allowing the mention of renovation before the council had even discussed it. There are many more of these instances mentioned on the Bradford Odeon Rescue Group website: http://www.kingsdr.demon.co.uk/cinemas/borg.htm

One thing that surprised me was that the leaflet actually had a picture that cast the Odeon in quite a good light:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9531/odeonpictureib0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

If you notice how pristine the white stone and green turret are here. The brick needs cleaning though, but wouldn't be difficult. The ground floor needs some work though, perhaps glass with white stone pillars intersecting it would look good and where the Board is, put a high and welcoming arch way.

i am so apalled and disappointed about the odeon plans - theres only 1 out of 3 that keeps the beautiful and valuable towers and that one is a spanishy childish mish mash that belongs in disney. i tell you - if that is built it will be demolished within 20 years if not less. I wouldnt consider demolishing the towers - they are a valued landmark by us Bradfordians if not the council, and the WHOLE biulding is vastly superior to any of the proposals, and could be easily restrored - interior reconstructed for a meaningful attractive use, there is a great big wasteland across the road staying empty and scruffy in prime land, where they can develop, but why knock down something so perfectly iconic to US so it can be fully appreciated again and im talking about it all not just the towers - they would look crao standing there alone with a primary coloured lego invading their well deserved environment they could knock some windows into the palin brick walls, and have a nice civilised courtyard in the middle or something - the interior is so flexible if you cleared the cinema stuff out

I agree with you mostly here, although I feel they could tone down the Casa Mela by using Stone for the material design. I think it was that it would have Festival Colours on the 'inside' and a more modest and respectful sandstone from the out. The front meeting space thing could also have been improved with the same white stone as on the turrets and changing those purple, yellows and pinks into meer illuminated lights. I think it could've of looked classy, but still the original odeon building is still the most impressive. Rather than a courtyard, I'd maintain it's basic original structure, using it as a concert venue with 3,000 seater capacity, which would speak volume to acts who might normally overlook Bradford as a place to perform. The rather unconvincing and frankly baffling proposal to do up St. Georges is just silly, it has bad acoustics, only 1,500 capacity with no where to expand. With the Odeon, St. Georges could focus on classical or acoustic music, comedy acts and other events that don't really involve modern instruments. The Odeon apparently has brilliant acoustics as I heard from some people at the Odeon debate.

Mentioning that, it was interesting to watch, Maud Marshall got increasing angry and short tempered and very cold the whole time, whereas the main representative for BORG, John Pennington was well humoured and an excellent orator (he by the way, saved the Midland Hotel from demolition).

As for other places to site this development, I could think of many: last remaining bit of Broadway where Arndale Hose is, opposite City Hall where the Hilton Hotel, Sick inducing carpark and some other office building currently is, the other side of Thorton Road where that expanse of car parks is as J.A.W mentioned, preferably along side the pedestrianisation of this part of Thorton Road. Though my preference would be the current site of the Car Dealership, which interestingly is disregarded as existing by the New Victoria Plan:

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/8529/arialpa6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

See to the left of the picture, it has two tall-ish long buildings. They are not currently there. They know something we don't? If this is more damned apartments and offices it'd be an utter waste of space.

But i love that building! It may be the the most insensitively brutal object for miles, but its so impressive, its just temporarily out of fashion - in a couple of decades wed wish it was there again, theres so much about it that is superior than any of it's replacement options, like its stone-coloured concrete - needs cleaning thats all, its geometry is satisfying and dramatic and the architecture is quality just in its fashion - black spot of 30 or so years. Im telling you by 2030 itd be listed. i arent joking - we criticise bradford council for demolishing the old market back then, but as we dont have foresight we cant see that we are doing the same thing. We do need to demolish lots of bad qaulity 60's and 70's developments because they were nasty and cheap, but this is an satisfying quality landmark, that needs a good scrubbing and 20 years to be appreciated. But these relacement designs seem as rushed and cheap as the hated 60s stuff demolished around broadway. I can think of acres and acres of wasteland on prime sites begging to be developed, not demolishing good examples of architecture. When we're adjusted to mid 20th century design, the current tower will be more highly valued than the Kohinoor building nearby or even the odeon as an interesting building from the past in need of protection.

I n the words of John Mackenrow: ''You Cannot Be Serious!''

J.A.W

August 18th, 2006, 07:06 PM

''You Cannot Be Serious!''

of course I knew someone would say that
but im afraid i am in all sincerity, but i shant go on about that i dont think - as much as orwell's bradfordian ministry of love is my frend - its an embarrasing one

Dan B

August 19th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Oh dear i am speechless about the plans for the Odeon. Whilst those buildings by Carey Jones appear of a reasonable quality it is no substitute for what is a landmark building in Bradford city centre which although derelict at present could be refurbished although radically but still keeping some features such as the refurbishment of the Odeon in Leeds into Primark and it could be used by the people of Bradford as opposed to property investors. Bradford Civic Trust or whoever is responsible for heritage issues in Bradford should certainly campaign to save this building as it would be an act of vandalism to flatten such a prominent building which would be akin to demolishing the Corn Exchange in Leeds for a multi storey car park and it is crazy how a building that defines Bradford could be demolished for something that could be built anywhere (although with yellow brick cladding ;)). When is the Odeon planned to be demolished?

RIP: Odeon Cinema Bradford 1928 - 2006 :(

I know, it's quite rediculous isn't it? I came past that Odeon a while ago (although didn't know what it was) but it certainly looked worth keeping, and with the Bradford Odeon being even more imposing and grand, I can't believe they're so desperate to get rid of it, of course it's better suited to a Music Venue than a shop or department store. Indeed these buildings despite the 'faithful' sandstone, are of a 'put 'em anywhere' variety, and that one on the end looks plain horrible from Thorton Road, being even more of a souless modernist block.

The building will begin demolition in summer 2007 if we can't do anything to save it, a real shame and a missed opportunity to reinvigorate the music scene, they've had past glories (The Cult, Terrorvision, Smokey) the most they can muster now is the bassist from Franz Ferdinard, whereas Leeds have The Kaiser Chiefs (while I don't personally like them, they do raise the profile) the Leeds Festival, Frequent gigs at Millenium Square and a proposed 12,000 seater Arena. It's really not proportionate.

As for the other designs Daniel they are a little better, but i think they should be replacing this building with something in the 20-30 stories range. A real beacon for the new Bradford.

Hmmm, 30's unlikely, at the most 22 is what your aiming for with two polar opposite towers (in design that is: Spiral Tower and Manchester Road Development). But still this is a height improvement and the building is very visible from everywhere. As for the other designs, I really like them, it's nice to see some new buildings which aren't your usual nothing but glass design. With the storeys you'd suggest, some typical glass thing would be all the more likely. A good compromise between Glass and other materials such as stone is what we should be aiming for. The Gatehaus is a good example.

J.A.W

August 20th, 2006, 01:14 AM

Rob

August 20th, 2006, 01:45 PM

But i love that building! It may be the the most insensitively brutal object for miles, but its so impressive,

Interesting taste in 'impressive' architecture, you realise you may be in a bit of a minority there.

Dan B

August 20th, 2006, 02:59 PM

Any mention of economic viability makes me SEETHE - our medieval cathedrals cost thousands of pounds a day to keep them in good nick, ...you know, .. i say no more.

im going to start writing letters - it will probably be useless, but ive got almost a year to try my personally best effort. I hope i shant be alone in at least trying

Economic Viabilty hate those words, crystalised very powerfully in Falling Down.

I think I'll join you in writing letters, I think I can make quite a strong argument as I've been doing a little research into some of the 'cooler' gig venues in the country, I noticed a few similarities in them:

Brixton Academy:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/74/brixtonacademytf2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5896/brixtonacademyih0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wikipedia Entry:

''Carling Academy Brixton
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Brixton Academy)
Jump to: navigation, search

Carling Academy BrixtonThe Carling Academy Brixton is a large music venue in Brixton, South London with a capacity of 4,921. It was built in 1929 and opened as one of four Astoria cinemas. In 1972 the Astoria closed and the building was used as an equipment store by the Rank Organisation.

It re-opened as a music venue in 1983 and was called the Brixton Academy, a name that it kept until mid 2004 when it was renamed as the Carling Academy. It is currently run by the Academy Music Group and hosts a range of live acts and club nights.

As one of the biggest non-arena venues in London it attracts many big names and has seen many famous bands perform there. The venue has also been voted venue of the year several times in the annual NME awards. However, it should be noted that Carling sponsors the NME Awards and so the legitimacy of this award is questionable.

The nearest tube and train station is Brixton.

Trivia

The record for the band with most consecutive appearances at this venue is currently held by The Chemical Brothers who made 6 appearances in 2005. Massive Attack, The Clash, The Prodigy, Bob Dylan and Hard-Fi have all played five consecutive nights at the venue.''

BUILT IN LATE 20'S/EARLY 30'S, ART DECO STYLE, FORMER CINEMA!!

London Astoria:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7053/londonastoriano4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wikipedia Entry:

London Astoria
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
London Astoria
Venue
Location: Soho, London
Spaces: 1
Layout: theatre style
Promotions: G-A-Y
Licensing
Capacity: 2,000
Licensing authority: Westminster
Business
Opened:
Owner: Mean Fiddler

The London Astoria is a music venue at 157 Charing Cross Road in London. It has been leased and run by Mean Fiddler Music Group since 2000.

It opened as a Crosse & Blackwell pickle factory and has been a music hall and a theatre. It is now exclusively a music venue with a capacity of 2,000. The Astoria is connected to the Mean Fiddler such that the two venues can function as a single venue where needed. By far its busiest nights are the G-A-Y promotions.

It has played host to many up-and-coming bands, such as Radiohead's performance for MTV in 1994 and the grunge band Nirvana in 1989, as well as world famous bands wishing to play low-profile shows, including The Rolling Stones in 2003, and Oasis's first performance of their 2005 tour. Blur also played a five-night residency in 2003. The venue plays host to the popular nightclub G-A-Y, which sees many celebrities visit and perform music for the assembled crowd.

Mean Fiddler acquired the lease for the London Astoria in May 2000, 'securing the future of live music at one of London’s most famous rock ‘n’ roll venues.'

However, the Freehold was recently [late June '06] sold from Compco Holdings property group Derwent Valley Central for £23.75m, who plan to convert the site to a combination of shops, flats and offices to raise money during the Olympics. It will continue to be rented to the Mean Fiddler group for £1m per year until 2008.

BUILT IN LATE 20'S/EARLY 30'S (well I assume from design), ART DECO STYLE, FORMER THEATRE!!

(Though it looks like this one's under threat for shops, flats and offices. Sound familiar?)

Manchester Appolo:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6958/82cq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9620/vemanchesterapol002gz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1673/mancapollosx4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wikipedia:

Manchester Apollo
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Manchester Apollo is a concert venue in Manchester. The venue sits in between Manchester's two other major venues (the MEN Arena and Manchester Academy), being smaller than the Arena but larger than the Academy.

The Manchester Apollo was originally built as 'ABC Cinema Ardwick' in 1930. It was designed by architects Peter Cummings, Alex Irvine and R Gillespie Williams. It's original purpose was as a cinema and variety hall. It was opened by famous 1930s actress Margaret Lockwood. It has been known as the Apollo Theatre and latterly as Labatt's Apollo and the Carling Apollo, Manchester but it has recently reverted back to 'Manchester Apollo'.

Locally known as 'The Apollo', it is a listed building with a standing capacity of 3,500 (2514 standing, 986 seats). It also hosts seated events to a capacity of 2693. Split into two levels, the upstairs contains permanently fitted seating, whereas the larger downstairs can be altered to suit the event; both levels view a single concert stage. The venue has no air conditioning apart from in the 'Whiteroom' hospitality area (accessible only by those who have a Whiteroom credit card) and can get uncomfortably hot in warm weather. The Apollo operates a no smoking policy, although you can still smoke in all areas outside of the auditorium itself.

The Apollo hosts a large number of primarily popular music based concerts and other events throughout the year. The venue can feel more intimate than the MEN Arena for both fans and artists, and recent years have sometimes seen successful bands perform at both the Apollo and the Arena on differing dates to create different atmospheres and reach different audiences.

It has a distinctive red ceiling and raked floor giving an excellent view of the stage from anywhere in the auditorium. Merchandise is sold in the lobby, whilst there are three bars. The ground floor has two bars one off to the left hand side of the stage and one at the rear. There is also a bar on the second floor.

Concert management and advertisement is handled by Live Nation, and first aid cover is provided for all its events by St. John Ambulance.

BUILT IN LATE 20'S/EARLY 30'S, ART DECO STYLE, FORMER CINEMA!!

Also note the latter of these is of around the same size of the Odeon, and that none of these buildings are either as impressive or imposing as The Odeon or New Vic can and should be.

I think I'll make a BIG mention of this when I write a letter. Maud Marshall says how Bradford is thinking like a small city when it doesn't want this new development. Just look how much an impact it would make if it could play with the big guys, that'd be a statement if I ever saw one and could even reverse the trend of the exodus over to Leeds for the mid-size venue Leeds lacks (as it will get the Arena I'm sure). Also note how Leeds has no venues of this kind or concert venues for that matter (for now anyway), if you ignore the Univeristies, it has none.

Could put Bradford ahead, which is the least I could say for a few offices, apartments and cafe/restaurant thingies.

Wouldn't this be a better future for Bradford?

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5999/12may06am00311661640x480ot0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

BUILT IN LATE 20'S/EARLY 30'S, ART DECO STYLE, FORMER CINEMA!!

di Livio

August 20th, 2006, 04:49 PM

It would certainly compliment the Alhambra next door, and the Pictureville Cinema.

Dan B

August 20th, 2006, 05:50 PM

It would certainly compliment the Alhambra next door, and the Pictureville Cinema.

Exactly, and of course already does, why take it away? By the way, which one's the Pictureville Cinema, I've gone in the place and watched films there, but don't know which one it is from the outside. Might it be the one with the green or copper roof? If so I see your point.

The King

August 20th, 2006, 08:26 PM

to demolish this building would be a crying shame as this building could be incorperated and if done right would be one of the countrys finest examples of old and new fusion of a building development, just like the light in leeds. to loose this building would be nothin short of a scandal with so much unused space in bradford to demolish a building of such merit would be such a shame.

Da Bomb

August 21st, 2006, 01:16 AM

The former Odeon building would make an aswesome live music venue with a little TLC.

Bradford Lad

August 21st, 2006, 01:24 AM

di Livio

August 21st, 2006, 12:59 PM

Interesting read in today's Daily Mail (not exactly a publication i would want a subscription for). It's the usual characterisation of Bradford as a problem city. The guy comes across as a bit of a prick actually, with his day return London journalist style.

Apartheid Britain
by GEORGE ALAGIAH

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/parents/features/images/alagiah.jpg

11:23am 21st August 2006

Forty-odd years ago the playground at St John's College in Portsmouth was the place where I learned how to become British, but today, for tens of thousands of immigrant children, school may be the very place that prevents them from becoming British. Could it be possible that the very isolation of thousands of immigrant children in education breeds an indifference, even contempt, for the nation outside their enclave? Certainly, if you want to understand the mentality of the enclave, there is no better place to go than Bradford.

IT WAS the kind of conversation I'd had in a hundred taxis in a hundred foreign cities. 'Park Grove Hotel, please.' 'Park Hotel?' 'No, no — Park GROVE Hotel.' 'Grope Hotel?' 'NO — GroVVVVVe Hotel! With a V!' 'Don't know V. Where is V?' Life as a foreign correspondent had been punctuated by these sometimes comical, always infuriating encounters with drivers who could barely find their way out of an airport car park, let alone the destination I had in mind. In this case, though, I wasn't on assignment in a strange land, and it wasn't an airport.

It was Bradford railway station, though it was very quickly beginning to feel like another country.

'What about your controller, maybe he'll know.' I pointed to the two-way radio through which a voice was blaring out instructions in a language I couldn't understand. Every now and then I'd catch the odd place name in English. 'OK, OK, I ask.'

I couldn't be sure if the driver was asking the right question until he got to the name of the hotel. This time he had it bang on, but the controller's reply made me feel like I was heading into my own version of Groundhog Day. 'Park Hotel?' 'Give me that thing,' I shouted.

It was late at night and I was very tired.

'Look, I've already explained it to your driver and shouldn't have to explain it to you. The place is called Park Grove Hotel and I've showed him on the map that it's somewhere off Keighley Road.' 'Is it near the Mitsubishi garage?' 'How the b***** hell should I know? I'm here for the first time and if I knew where the hell the Mitsubishi garage was I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you over a microphone, would I?' 'Please don't be using dirty language.'

'You're a fine one to talk about language. Some plain and simple English would be nice.' Well, that was what I wanted to say but I didn't.

Instead I apologised. It occurred to me that I should treat this a bit more like one of my reporting assignments abroad. Over the years I had come to realise that in most countries — especially Muslim ones — the casual swearing we take in our stride is considered deeply offensive.

'Look, all I know is that it's opposite the Bradford School of Management.' 'Oh, you should have told the driver. Everybody is knowing the management school.' So it was my fault. At least we were on our way. Now I could do what I had always done on assignment.

Taxi drivers are often the reporter's first source of information in a foreign land — and survival in a strange and often dangerous place is about making friends. This wasn't a war zone, but it was beginning to feel quite strange. In any case, old habits die hard. 'So how long have you been a taxi driver?'

'Twenty-seven days,' he said with a brevity and accuracy at odds with everything else that had happened that evening. I could see why finding the hotel had turned out to be such a palaver. 'Have you just come to England?'

'England very nice.' 'No, I was asking whether you have just come to England. Where were you before you started driving this taxi?' 'I work in textile.' 'In a factory?' 'Yes.' 'How long were you working in the factory?' 'Fifteen years.' 'Fifteen years! You mean 15 months.' 'I no understand.' 'Have you been in Bradford for 15 years? You came here in 1990?' 'Yes.'

'Fifteen years very long time. If you came here 15 years ago, why you don't speak English very good?' By now I had slipped into the broken English that had become like a second language on the road. 'English no good. All mans in textile is Asia. Speak Pakistan language.' This was why I had come to Bradford. It was the first inkling that what many said about the place was true. Countless newspaper articles, academic theses and government reports had alluded to the way in which Bradford's Asian community had evolved into a world of its own. Now I had some first-hand evidence.

Here, the ring road around the city is like a boundary. The inner neighbourhoods are almost entirely peopled by Asians, while the whites live outside. The division is accentuated by the relative prosperity of the two groups. Some of the outlying villages are amongst the wealthiest 50 per cent in the country. Yet nine out of ten of the city's 24 council wards are in the poorest 10 per cent.

That there should be such a distinct division of a city along ethnic and racial lines a generation after Britain began a legislative programme to bring about exactly the opposite outcome is staggering. Has Bradford grown apart despite multiculturalism — the principle behind every race-related law since the Race Relations Act in 1967 — or because of it?

Has institutionalised tolerance for diversity led to institutional indifference to separation? These questions are important because Bradford in the North-West and Tower Hamlets in the South are merely two examples in a pattern of urban settlement that is as prevalent as it is alarming. In Halifax, in Luton, in Southall, in Leicester and so many other cities where immigrants have settled, there is a version of separate development.

It surely wasn't inevitable that multiculturalism would lead to this phenomenon. At its best, multiculturalism helped protect immigrants from racism and so helped them to reap the rewards of hard work. Multiculturalism created the social space in which so many of us have prospered.

If some have been left behind, it is partly to do with their own preference for hanging on to an identity which has more to do with the home they have left than the home they are supposed to be making here in Britain. Multiculturalism was the perfect excuse for those who wanted to ring-fence their communities.

In continuing to exert control over their communities, these most conservative elements within the immigrant communities could exploit the ample opportunities afforded under multiculturalism — most notably the public funding of difference in the name of diversity.

However you define it — whether you call it segregation or isolation, whether you think people live in ghettos or enclaves, whether you think it all comes down to race or poverty — one thing is clear: it is happening. You only need to take a walk in any one of the places I have mentioned (and that list is by no means com-plete) to know that for hundreds of thousands of people the great dream of multiculturalism is not working.

Under the banner of diversity we have consigned too many people to an also-ran status. They are trapped on the outside track while the rest of us make progress on the inside one.

RIZWANA Mahmood knows all about separate development. As a child she crossed the divide on a daily basis. She is the product of a brief experiment in bussing Asian children from Bradford's city centre to schools on the outskirts. The word bussing brings to mind images of frightened black children running the gauntlet of an angry white mob in America's Deep South. But it happened in West Yorkshire, too, and — incredible as it seems — for one little girl it was a lot of fun. What's more, to meet her today is to question the hoary old convention that bussing is always bad, that it flows from a racist philosophy, and that anyone who endured it must be damaged for life.

There are many ways to describe Rizwana, but damaged is certainly not one of them. I'm not sure what I was expecting when we met, but even at 100 yards I could see that this woman broke the mould.

Something about the way she waved at me — the sheer abandon with which her arms semaphored above her head — told me Rizwana Mahmood had something I hadn't yet encountered on the streets of Bradford. The Jewish might call it chutzpah, I'd call it confidence.

She stepped round her bright blue (brash would be another description) 4x4 and shook hands. She was dressed in jeans and a short jacket, and her eyes sparkled. 'I remember the bus to school so well,' she said. 'It was the A56A. My mum would give me about 20 pence every day and before getting on the bus we used to nip into the sweet shop. We had to finish all the sweets on the journey because we weren't allowed to take anything like that into school.'

What the bus gave Rizwana, and eventually her brother as well, was the opportunity to mix with white children, something that was denied to thousands of children then and still is today.

'It was scary at first. I remember it being quite daunting. But quite quickly I made friends. You know, kids are kids.'

She still has the 'memories' book she began writing as a teenager, noting down some of the seminal moments in her young life.

On the face of it there is nothing extraordinary about the things she remembers, until you realise that the generation of children who attend Bradford's inner-city schools today couldn't even begin to comprehend what Rizwana is talking about.

'My best friends were: Gary Hay-lock, Shawn Holdsworth, Fiaqa Iqbal and Fatima Patel. I had the best time of my life with these four although sometimes I ended up having major fights with Fiaqa and Gary.'

There are schools in Bradford now where it would be virtually impossible for any child to list both English and Asian pupils among his or her friends.

In 2005, there were 38 primary schools in which children from ethnic minorities made up over 75 per cent of the school roll — often the figure was as high as 98 per cent.

In some schools the only English children left come from families that are so dysfunctional they are unable or unwilling to take the trouble to relocate their children.

Here's another entry from Rizwana's school diary:

'The best part of school was Christmas. I loved Christmas time, when Santa came to our party and gave us presents. I loved rubbing my face on his pretend beard.'

It's difficult to imagine any latter-day Santa being allowed to be that intimate with a child these days — that too has changed. More importantly, the extent to which Christmas is celebrated varies from school to school.

While many of the predominantly white schools have studiously broadened their religious education to include non-Christian religions — marking Diwali and Eid-ul-Fitr is commonplace — the Asian-dominated schools have not necessarily gone the other way. They have become de facto faith schools.

Yet Rizwana is no less a Muslim today for having accepted the odd present from a make-believe Santa when she was a child. What she gained was an experience she could share with millions of other children in this country.

Friendship at school spilled over after hours. She was invited to the homes of her white friends and they came to hers. Her parents' openness to this kind of experience was in stark contrast to the attitude of some of their Pakistani neighbours.

'We were looked on as sort of snooty. I think it was because my mum was educated and wanted us to be outgoing.'

Rizwana didn't say it in so many words, so let me do it for her — there was and still is a bias against integration within Bradford's Pakistani community. If it was understandable in those early days of immigration when the community was new, it is unconscionable now.

And yet it persists — a by-product of the religious and social exclusivity of the community coupled with a failure of the state to offer any viable alternative.

In 1975, the Race Relations Board decided that bussing Brad-ford's Asian children into white communities contravened the Race Relations Act. The board

argued that because children were only being bussed in one direction, it was being done on the basis of racial or ethnic identity rather than educational need.

But surely that was the whole point! The parents of white children out in the suburbs would no doubt have objected to their children being bussed into inner-city schools, which by definition were underachieving in the most significant area — language.

They would have been right, too. It wasn't their children who needed the extra help.

Bussing in Britain differed in one significant way from its more famous counterpart in America. There it was supported and pursued by liberals desperate to smash a hole through the colour bar that still survived in the South.

It was opposed by the redneck racists who saw it as yet another assault on their way of life. Here it was the other way around. In Britain it was the left that opposed the policy and social conservatives who were its proponents.

The fact that it was a policy designed to integrate immigrant children was lost in the whirlwind of political correctness that swept the country in the Seventies and Eighties.

The Left's response was a knee-jerk

reaction to the fact that those who called for action were often white families in areas with growing numbers of immigrants.

In those early days of multiculturalism, immigrants who complained were deemed to have a grievance, but white families who voiced their fears ran the risk of being labelled racists.

Some of them no doubt were, but there was a wilful refusal to accept that for many white parents the rapid recasting of their communities presented a genuine challenge for which they were ill-equipped and unprepared.

It shouldn't be so difficult to understand what these people were thinking. Immigrants need only to look back at the history of the countries from which they came to get an inkling of what it must feel like to be confronted with foreign customs and ideas.

After all, what was it that our parents and grandparents most despised about the British colonialists who lorded it over vast tracts of Asia and Africa? The land-grab aside, wasn't it the way they never really bothered to learn our languages, eat our food or wear our clothes?

Rizwana's story alone is not an argument in favour of bussing, nor do I think it was the best way of

dealing with the problem. Children should be able to get everything they need from an education — whether it is academic excellence or social interaction — from their local school. That is how you build cohesive communities.

But what Rizwana's story does show is it will take some other, equally radical form of social engineering to break down the separate development of children.

Without reforms to the admissions system, schools will continue to replicate the social mix — or lack of it — of their catchment area.

For her own part, Rizwana considers herself lucky to have gone to school in those years. What bussing gave her was a glimpse of a world beyond the geographically separate and psychologically blinkered community she lived in.

Once she'd seen what was on offer outside, she wanted more. But it wasn't the bright lights and loose ways so feared by the Pakistani community's elders that enticed her — it was the notion of opportunity.

The idea that you could aspire to something more than merely repeating what the previous generation had done.

'Bussing gave me the ability to interact,' she says. 'It's given me tolerance. It's given me a bigger

picture and the skills to communicate. Kids today don't have that — we're failing them.'

The extent of that failure became obvious in devastating form on July 7, 2005 when four young men, three of whom grew up a short drive away from Bradford, in Leeds, targeted the capital's transport system.

Whatever else motivated the suicide bombers, an alienation from the country in which they lived must surely have been a factor.

The bombers may have had British passports, they may have had Yorkshire accents and worn the street garb of all urban youth, but just how British did they feel?

More importantly, did we, in Britain, set any sort of standard, demand any sort of behaviour, offer any form of encouragement that might have enticed them away from the savage influences of those who persuaded them to turn the capital's trains and buses into charnel houses?

We need to re-examine multiculturalism, the policy that has underpinned race relations in this country for the best part of 40 years.

We need to accept that a part of the way in which it has been implemented may have delivered something we never envisaged or intended. Otherwise, we risk a backlash that might unhinge everything that has been achieved since modern immigration to Britain began.

ADAPTED from A Home From Home by George Alagiah, published by Little Brown, on September 7, at £17.99. ©2006 George Alagiah. To order a copy for £14.99 (plus £1.95 p&p), call 0870 161 0870.

J.A.W

August 21st, 2006, 01:09 PM

that all sounds reasonably familiar

di Livio

August 21st, 2006, 02:15 PM

Rather pissed off that my comments weren't published on the Daily Mail website. Ha, ha, ha, methinks I've been blacklisted, as I can;t get published on the BBC websites either.

Bradford Lad

August 21st, 2006, 07:40 PM

moving on

Dan B

August 22nd, 2006, 04:53 PM

The Odeon was once an impressive building but now i do feel the New Victoria Place development will act as major catalyst for Bradford reestablishing itself as a major economic driver for the region. I do believe that heritage should be preserved, for example St Georges Hall, the City Hall and the Waterstones are impressive buildings which is testament to the Bradford's former glories but new developments which are sympathetic to the older built environment can and will help to create a vibrant city centre.

Yeah, but why does this catalyst have be right on top of one of the city's landmarks? I've listed before many other preferable places it could go, which would go someway towards the complete destruction of 60's architecture. The other buildings you mention are of course worth preserving, however, in terms of St. Georges Hall, the place isn't big enough to accomodate larger touring bands, even though it's a stunning building. Art deco former cinema's seem to have a sort of cool attacted to them, as they're often the sites of well known mid sized venues. I think Bradford's missing out on this chance to reinvigorate the music scene and bring people over from Leeds. They could get someone in like Mean Fiddler to organise it and take charge of it's renovation. Wouldn't it also be a good idea to get some of the bands from the area like New Model Army to support it's renovation for the provision of a good music venue for Bradford, any representatives of the local music scene should be getting 100% behind saving it.

Let's look at it this way, what's gonna encourage people to come over more? A newly done up 3,000 seater music venue, the likes of which Leeds does not currently have or some offices, apartments, hotel, few cafes or restaurants, yada yada.

Anyway about this article

It's the usual characterisation of Bradford as a problem city. The guy comes across as a bit of a prick actually, with his day return London journalist style.

Yeah he did seem a bit cocky. As for his point, it was quite true and I don't think we can keep avoiding the subject. However his likening of the community not integrating to British Imperialism is hardly valid. I think there's quite a difference between going to live in a country and using Gunboat diplomacy to take a stranglehold of it.

Rather pissed off that my comments weren't published on the Daily Mail website. Ha, ha, ha, methinks I've been blacklisted, as I can;t get published on the BBC websites either.

It's to be expected of the Middle-England Moraliser.

Bradford Lad

August 22nd, 2006, 08:37 PM

[QUOTE=Daniel Brassington]Yeah, but why does this catalyst have be right on top of one of the city's landmarks? I've listed before many other preferable places it could go, which would go someway towards the complete destruction of 60's architecture. The other buildings you mention are of course worth preserving, however, in terms of St. Georges Hall, the place isn't big enough to accomodate larger touring bands, even though it's a stunning building. Art deco former cinema's seem to have a sort of cool attacted to them, as they're often the sites of well known mid sized venues. I think Bradford's missing out on this chance to reinvigorate the music scene and bring people over from Leeds. They could get someone in like Mean Fiddler to organise it and take charge of it's renovation. Wouldn't it also be a good idea to get some of the bands from the area like New Model Army to support it's renovation for the provision of a good music venue for Bradford, any representatives of the local music scene should be getting 100% behind saving it.

True, Bradford is in a need of a major venue for live music, but i do feel that the New Victoria Place development is going to be situated in the best place.

The new devlopment will make the west end vibrant and help improve Bradford's night time economy.

As for a location for a new music venue, i hear the council are going to spend fifteen milllion pound transforming St Goerges into a major concert venue.

Dan B

August 22nd, 2006, 11:29 PM

True, Bradford is in a need of a major venue for live music, but i do feel that the New Victoria Place development is going to be situated in the best place.

The new devlopment will make the west end vibrant and help improve Bradford's night time economy.

As for a location for a new music venue, i hear the council are going to spend fifteen milllion pound transforming St Goerges into a major concert venue.

Help improve Bradford's night time economy? How? I didn't see clubs and bars labelled in the design. The most there'll be is a restaurant and cafe etc. Probably something at best similar to the thing on centenerary square. Now I know that's not bad, but it doesn't make up for the possibility of a proper sized concert venue.

And how exactly are they going to 'transform' St. Georges? Just have a look at how boxed in the site is:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8916/stgeorgeshallkf9.png (http://imageshack.us)

There's no way to expand, it has Bridge Street on one side, Hall Ings on another, the Telegraph and Argus offices and Printing Room to the back and the Victoria Hotel and the Square to the right. It would still be the same old 1,500 seater thing it is. Another issue is the poor acoustics I hear it has (pun unintended), I know this can be solved, but why bother when you already have one with far better acoustics anyway? Another sound issue is that apparently the ceiling has been cracking, which is caused exactly because of new sound technology which the victorian hall wasn't built for. If they want to make it a world class venue, with even more rock music, the problem would only worsen. It is better suited to something like Classical Music, Acoustic Music and Comedy etc. Just look at the current line up: sparse, incredibly sparce: the only worthwhile band we have in the next 6 months are Motorhead, the rest of the time we can look forward to Journey South and no doubt more Jim Davidson shows... Enough said. By comparision an entirely new renovation would speak in volumes, with the addition of new victoria place and a plaza in between. Here's a rather crudely edited photo I did, to show my idea:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/4083/odeonideaie2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The yellow bit on the road shows the pedestrianisation of that length of Thorton Road and Princes Way, the yellow square would be a new public square/plaza and the white bit at the back of the Odeon would be a sort of Casa Mela type forum space. The black things are of course the layout of New Victoria Place. This whole place would be easily accessible from the West End and help extent it with maybe some new clubs or bars down there into the 'cliffside'. Why choose when you could have both? And if they're forever gonna complain about costs Bradford and particularly the Thorton Road area will never improve.

di Livio

August 24th, 2006, 01:29 PM

I'm after a book on Bradford's history, any suggestions?

Dan B

August 24th, 2006, 01:51 PM

I'm after a book on Bradford's history, any suggestions?

Hmm, I saw one once at the University library, following J.B. Priestley in relation to his home city. It showed a few buildings in I didn't recognise, no thanks to the architectural purges of the 60's and 70's. Other than that, I know of a website with many old photographs and information on former buildings:

http://www.bradlibs.com/localstudies/vtc/lostbradford/index.htm

It would certainly compliment the Alhambra next door, and the Pictureville Cinema.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6931/1021331035c5f61ef2fsd1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I think this illustrates that point quite well. Certainly hope it isn't added to the list of former buildings.

oootle

August 24th, 2006, 03:10 PM

http://www.bradlibs.com/localstudies/vtc/lostbradford/webimages/LB042r.jpg

interesting photo showing High Point being constructed in the background

Dan B

August 28th, 2006, 07:34 PM

Is it just me or has this site been down for absolutely ages, well 4 days or so.

http://www.bradlibs.com/localstudies/vtc/lostbradford/webimages/LB042r.jpg

interesting photo showing High Point being constructed in the background

Yeah, it looks a lot cleaner, white even. The building would've look better if they'd have started with sandstone cladding, but oh well, atleast something's being done to it now, however limited it's scope.

Back to the Odeon, there's a number of interesting views on the T&A website. Mike Priestley has one on the Odeon's heritage within the city, which I agree with, although think he could've gone on to it's possible uses.

''Odeon’s ties that bind...
By Mike Priestley
So now we know. If Bradford councillors decline to step in and put a stop to it, the distinctive building known variously as the New Victoria, Gaumont and Odeon will be demolished and a mediocre-looking structure which could be part of any modern city or town centre anywhere will go up in its place - unless, of course, the second part of the plan fails to go ahead for some reason, or is delayed, and Bradford is left with another big hole in its cityscape!

The councillors' involvement in deciding on the eventual planning application will be the first brush with democracy for this project, which has so far been driven by "the market".

The nearest it has come to it has been a "consultation" during which Bradford people were presented with three options (which didn't include keeping the present structure) and were asked for their views on them, but were not invited to say which they preferred. It wasn't a vote.

continued...
Nevertheless, 221 went ahead and expressed their preference for the scheme which would have retained the twin towers.

No chance. Unspecified "structural issues" have apparently ruled that out. Instead the scheme preferred by the "panel of experts" is the one that a mere 87 people said they liked best.

Those who are guiding this project through with such determination perhaps haven't appreciated the reason why so many Bradford people, mostly of the older generations, have such a passionate, stubborn, even obsessive attachment to the Gaumont and its towers.

It's more than a building, or a place which as the city's main entertainment centre for decades holds so many fond memories for them. It's a symbol of the Bradford that most of them (of us) grew up in, a Bradford which has changed in recent decades almost beyond recognition.

These older, indigenous Bradfordians have seen what they once felt to be their city steadily slipping away from them, architecturally and culturally. Some much-loved buildings of the past have long-since vanished: Swan Arcade, Kirkgate Market, Rawson Market, Busby's store Brown, Muff's (Rackham's) stands empty in Market Street. The home-grown Sunwin House, the "Co-op Emporium" of precious memory, has been taken over by a national store chain.

Apart from City Hall and the Cathedral (and Eastbrook Hall's facade which is painstakingly being taken apart to be reassembled as the front of a new development in Chapel Street), only three city-centre icons remain to serve as reminders of what once was: the splendid Wool Exchange, the Alhambra, and the Gaumont. The loss of any of those would hack through a major strand that binds people to their past.

And that's why the prospect of its demolition has provoked such anguish and anger.

Even though at present no-one has come forward with a commercial scheme to restore the Gaumont and turn it into the concert hall and performing-arts centre it could be, and though it seems unlikely that the money to achieve that could be found in the foreseeable future, a lot of people would prefer to see it preserved in its present unused state in the hope that one day its time will come.

For them, its demolition would be a loss too far. And that's why they're making such a fuss about the plan to flatten it and the way they believe it's been forced on the people of Bradford.''

The T&A recieve alot of letters about the Odeon, and none are in favour of it's demolition:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/features/featuresletters/

They also have some views on the Channel development, where I've seen a few in support but others are a bit too afraid of heights. They shouldn't complain about it's architecture, yes it's modern, but they could do a lot worse and would be wise to accept it. As for Broadway, a number of people think putting a lake or park in here would be better. I'm inclined to agree in theory and thought this myself. However, such a large plot of land would be somewhat wasted, it would also mean the increasing of height for surrounding developments which they're also against, meaning Bradford would not be able to boost it's economy in terms of shopping etc.

After having a look through some of the unsorted pictures on the Bradford Vision website, some of the city centre's problems become quite apparent to me. Particularly in the 'Market' area buildings that are of merit are often not used to their full potential and have uncorresponding shop fronts and offensively bright signs all about the place. This should be a big focus of regeneration efforts, there's a real lack of class, but it's easily mendable.

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/misc.html

Amongst the photos were a few of a rather Gaudi-esque building, which has to be a new favourite, albeit like others it's not used to it's full potential:

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5646/09jun06am20028zq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/5187/09jun06am20040dx1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Not sure where this is, but it looks ace.

Bradford Lad

August 29th, 2006, 12:28 AM

[QUOTE=Daniel Brassington]Help improve Bradford's night time economy? How? I didn't see clubs and bars labelled in the design. The most there'll be is a restaurant and cafe etc. Probably something at best similar to the thing on centenerary square. Now I know that's not bad, but it doesn't make up for the possibility of a proper sized concert venue.

Leeds for example has an abundance of bars, restaurants and clubs and the New victoria Place development will help improve Bradford's offer in relation to this by attracting more people into the city centre.

There are plans to improve st Georges Hall by spending £15m bringing the venue into the 21st century. The need for a large scale music venue is not just something Bradford lacks but one thing which Leeds lacks as well. Which at this moment in time is not a main priority with me.

Dan B

August 29th, 2006, 04:29 PM

Leeds for example has an abundance of bars, restaurants and clubs and the New victoria Place development will help improve Bradford's offer in relation to this by attracting more people into the city centre.

There are plans to improve st Georges Hall by spending £15m bringing the venue into the 21st century. The need for a large scale music venue is not just something Bradford lacks but one thing which Leeds lacks as well. Which at this moment in time is not a main priority with me.

If Leeds already has an abundance of bars, restaurants and clubs, what chance is there in attracting people over from Leeds? On the other hand Leeds does not currently have a single actual Concert Hall, whereas Bradford could have two, one small sized and one medium. Leeds will get the arena but will not have a medium sized music venue to counterbalance it. Of course it has the refectory but it's hardly a designated music venue is it? You also say both Leeds and Bradford lack this, surely the best argument for the Odeon being kept. Even if it isn't a priority with you, to many others it is, especially students, me being one myself. There tends to be a trend of people going over to Leeds to watch bands, this wouldn't have to always be the case and could infact reverse to an extent. St. Georges just isn't up to standard in its size, sound quality and its reputation, which for the most part is the standard variety concert venue; i.e. places where the Chuckle Brothers perform. This can still exist for those that want that, but a new niche focusing on music could be attained with the Odeon.

Could you honestly see any faults with having both? New Victoria place (moved a bit up the road) and The New Victoria Concert Hall based around a square, doubly boosting the economy.

If you restore it, they will come.

Bradford Lad

August 29th, 2006, 06:50 PM

If Leeds already has an abundance of bars, restaurants and clubs, what chance is there in attracting people over from Leeds? On the other hand Leeds does not currently have a single actual Concert Hall, whereas Bradford could have two, one small sized and one medium. Leeds will get the arena but will not have a medium sized music venue to counterbalance it. Of course it has the refectory but it's hardly a designated music venue is it? You also say both Leeds and Bradford lack this, surely the best argument for the Odeon being kept. Even if it isn't a priority with you, to many others it is, especially students, me being one myself. There tends to be a trend of people going over to Leeds to watch bands, this wouldn't have to always be the case and could infact reverse to an extent. St. Georges just isn't up to standard in its size, sound quality and its reputation, which for the most part is the standard variety concert venue; i.e. places where the Chuckle Brothers perform. This can still exist for those that want that, but a new niche focusing on music could be attained with the Odeon.

Could you honestly see any faults with having both? New Victoria place (moved a bit up the road) and The New Victoria Concert Hall based around a square, doubly boosting the economy.

If you restore it, they will come.

I see your point

di Livio

August 30th, 2006, 02:09 PM

Is Manningham, particularly the area around Lister Mill's, the centre of the south Asian community in Bradford?

http://www.testmeat.co.uk/photos/images/listermills.jpg

It's worth having a gander at Urban Splash's plans for loft apartments on site

Dan B

August 30th, 2006, 04:33 PM

I see your point

Thankyou.

Is Manningham, particularly the area around Lister Mill's, the centre of the south Asian community in Bradford?

It's worth having a gander at Urban Splash's plans for loft apartments on site

Nice Model, where'd you get the picture from?

Yeah, Manningham is apparently the centre of the South Asian Community. I've only really been up there once to have a look at the Mills up close and Lister's Park (apparently the best in the country) and of course Cartwright Hall. Didn't think Manningham was that bad when I went up there, as I'd heard people calling it a dump before, it was of course the scene of the riots, but there's been masterplans here as well, it made some improvement, although there's a lot on the plans I haven't seen actually done.

As for the Mills, I found an article on the T&A website with a picture of the next stage of development:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3754/listermillsroof265126fullqi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Unfortunately it's a bit small and I can't find the original source. From what I can make out it has some more wacky shapes on it this time, like bubble structures on the roof and orange things on the ground. See what they're trying to do, but I don't think it really works, best keep it in it's old grandure, not to add in modern bits that don't fit.

Anyway, here's the article:

''Getting ready to raise roof at mill!
By Sunita Bhatti

How the next phase of Lister's Mill will look
Planning approval has been granted for the second phase of the Lister Mills redevelopment scheme which includes a unique roof-top development incorporating a dramatic eye-catching design.

The aptly-named Velvet Mill' project will include 24 duplex apartments, transforming this landmark building by adding another 170 apartments ranging from one to three-bedroom properties.

The contemporary roof structure will be made of steel with glass sliding doors and timber decking which will all be constructed off site and be hoisted into place when ready.

This construction is set to follow in the footsteps of the mill's founder, Samuel Lister, by challenging traditional design and using new and innovative building methods.

continued...
The design has been inspired by yarns of silk, which were produced by the mill in the 1800s when it was the largest industrial powerhouse in Europe.

Architect David Morley said: "Working within the constraints of the mill, and with the creativity of Urban Splash has proved to be very exciting and produced interesting results.

"Instead of trying to closely match the new with the old, we have used bold new interventions to design something that reflects the ambition of Bradford and expresses the new life being given to this building."

So far Urban Splash has developed the Silk Warehouse made up of 131 apartments which is part of a £100 million investment into the site over ten years.

And work is expected to start on community space for the Manningham Mills Community Association which will be a mix of office space, creche, caf bar and IT facilities.

Simon Gawthorpe, managing director at Urban Splash Yorkshire, said: "We are delighted with the news that the Velvet Mill has received planning. This announcement is a fantastic endorsement for Bradford's regeneration as a whole and we will be working hard to ensure Velvet Mill meets the expectations of our potential buyers and the local community."

The public sales launch of Velvet Mill will take place later this year and the developers are hoping that the unusual and unique design will generate even greater interest.

Maud Marshall, chief executive of Bradford Centre Regeneration, said: "Lister Mills is an iconic development and a real symbol of Bradford's renaissance. The second phase will bring more high quality urban living to the city. Such developments are crucial for making Bradford into a desirable place in which to live, work and enjoy."

Ever notice how Maud the Borg comes out with exactly the same comments on every single quote of her?

From a view of the whole model the site is quite huge:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6403/manninghammodel4465x300tg7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Also found this little plan. The wavy roof seems interesting, just not sure if it would go with the rest of the features. As for some other features, it seems some of the glass roofs have been removed from one bit and have cylinders in place, seems like a poor mistake there.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9229/list2cm6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

di Livio

August 30th, 2006, 04:54 PM

Also found this little plan. The wavy roof seems interesting, just not sure if it would go with the rest of the features. As for some other features, it seems some of the glass roofs have been removed from one bit and have cylinders in place, seems like a poor mistake there.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9229/list2cm6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thanks fo the info.
That was an unsuccessful competition entry btw.
You can read more about Lister Mill's on the Urban Splash website (Space to Live)

http://www.urbansplash.co.uk/us.php

Val Verde

August 30th, 2006, 08:44 PM

Excellent to see the next phase of the regeneration of Listers Mill which is such a prominent landmark building for the Bradford area. However there are a few questions. 1. When is this development due to be finished? 2. Is it purely residential or will there be other facilities such as offices, shops, restaurants or even tourist attractions as well as those mentioned in DB's post which surely would be possible considering it is such a large building? 3. Has there been any development in the surrounding area that has spun off from the regeneration of Listers Mill? 4. I hope this is not the case but Listers Mill is not a gated community is it? 5. How successful has this development been in resulting a high number of owner occupiers as opposed to people purely investing in the property on the site as an investment?

Rob

August 30th, 2006, 09:45 PM

Is Manningham, particularly the area around Lister Mill's, the centre of the south Asian community in Bradford?

I wouldn't say it is. It is in the predominantly Muslim Oak Lane area, but certainly not the South Asian epicentre as it is near the edge of the dense terraced housed urban area and borders on the more villagey bits of Heaton which is quite mixed race.

Dan B

August 30th, 2006, 11:01 PM

That was an unsuccessful competition entry btw.

Oh thank God, just noticed they were planning to put a big blue block on top of the Chimney! Also it would do away with a significant amount of buildings to the back there with stupidy colourful replacements, seems they were trying to make a mockery of it or just have their heads in cloud-Alsop land.

Excellent to see the next phase of the regeneration of Listers Mill which is such a prominent landmark building for the Bradford area. However there are a few questions. 1. When is this development due to be finished? 2. Is it purely residential or will there be other facilities such as offices, shops, restaurants or even tourist attractions as well as those mentioned in DB's post which surely would be possible considering it is such a large building? 3. Has there been any development in the surrounding area that has spun off from the regeneration of Listers Mill? 4. I hope this is not the case but Listers Mill is not a gated community is it? 5. How successful has this development been in resulting a high number of owner occupiers as opposed to people purely investing in the property on the site as an investment?

1. - 2007 (well that's what they say anyway)
2. - Hmm they'll be a number of comunity facilities from what I can gather. Apparently they'll be some sort of performance room or workout area for a disabled theatrical group and some galleries as well as offices.
3. - There's a Manningham Masterplan that has many pdf's to it.
http://www.mymanningham.org.uk/01_projects/masterplan.html
Should give some indication to follow up projects in the area. So far it's been some blue painted flower boxes, bins and street lamps, but I'm sure much more is to come as detailed in the plans.
4. - I think there's currently a Wall at the front inbetween the two main mills, but I should think this would get taken down, making it more open.
5. - A substantial amount have been sold so far I think, if you check the Urban Splash website, it lists the apartments sold. http://www.urbansplash.co.uk/us.php

I found another interesting article here: http://www.propertyinvesting.net/cgi-script/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=specialreports.db32&command=viewonex

Was good to read a mostly positive article from an outside source without the usual propagandising of the T&A and Bradford Coucil.

I also now know that the Gaudi-ish building mentioned above is on Manningham Lane:
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7055/mannlane03ej2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Unfortunately just up the street from this architectural horror:
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4736/10may0620006df7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Can't believe John Pennington once put his name to that (now the Town and Country Club), it is however much better inside and play's host to some decent music acts, well, some of the time.

Baht'at

August 31st, 2006, 01:06 AM

Firstly the Gaudi-esque building refered to above is on Manningham Lane near Belle Vue Barracks. Arghhh - just noticed you'd found it.

Secondly it appears that the Broadway development has to all intents and purposes collapsed with Debenhams not signing up as an anchor tenant and Westfield not willing to proceed without them. They aren't even bothering shifting the heaps of crushed stones around anymore!

Thirdly I wouldn't bet on the Victoria Place development either - a chunk of it is supposedly for Bradford College and I'm not sure that the past expansion of the education sector can continue.

Fourthly does anyone know anything about the green post box on Nelson Street:

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/miscf/06Jun06am%20067.jpg

di Livio

August 31st, 2006, 12:25 PM

I wouldn't say it is. It is in the predominantly Muslim Oak Lane area, but certainly not the South Asian epicentre as it is near the edge of the dense terraced housed urban area and borders on the more villagey bits of Heaton which is quite mixed race.

Thanks for that, Rob.
Although it completely discredits an essay i've been writing this week. Darn.
In it, I mention something about investors hesitating over the Broadway development after the riots in 2001.

Secondly it appears that the Broadway development has to all intents and purposes collapsed with Debenhams not signing up as an anchor tenant and Westfield not willing to proceed without them. They aren't even bothering shifting the heaps of crushed stones around anymore!

I hope this issue can be resolved. It's a bit embarrassing if Bradford can't hold on to a Debenhams store.

di Livio

August 31st, 2006, 12:55 PM

i came across this, looking in the Evening Standard 'have your say' section for 'perceptions of Bradford'. 1990? Ho, ho, ho.

Had the misfortune in 1990 being sent by the company I was working for to customer sites in Bradford, Leeds and Barnsley.The most inhospitable, unfriendly, insular, drab, depressing places I've ever had the bad luck to go to.

i was sat in a departmental function yesterday when all of a sudden everyone starts having a go at 'northerners' and their 'behaviour'. Obviously no one realised where i was from, and i, like a good northerner, kept a dignified silence.

Baht'at

August 31st, 2006, 06:15 PM

Well nothing is happening at Broadway as you can see (about 11ish this morning)

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/miscf/P8311446.jpg

JOliver

August 31st, 2006, 08:33 PM

Firstly the Gaudi-esque building refered to above is on Manningham Lane near Belle Vue Barracks. Arghhh - just noticed you'd found it.

Secondly it appears that the Broadway development has to all intents and purposes collapsed with Debenhams not signing up as an anchor tenant and Westfield not willing to proceed without them. They aren't even bothering shifting the heaps of crushed stones around anymore!

Thirdly I wouldn't bet on the Victoria Place development either - a chunk of it is supposedly for Bradford College and I'm not sure that the past expansion of the education sector can continue.

Fourthly does anyone know anything about the green post box on Nelson Street:

Hi there, are you Baht At who frequently contributes to http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/? You've got a few fans here if so.

Val Verde

August 31st, 2006, 08:39 PM

Secondly it appears that the Broadway development has to all intents and purposes collapsed with Debenhams not signing up as an anchor tenant and Westfield not willing to proceed without them. They aren't even bothering shifting the heaps of crushed stones around anymore!

Oh my god that surely must be of extreme embrassement for Bradford. Have you got a source for this as surely this would certainly dent Bradfords self confidence which has slowly been recovering since the 2001 riots as many reasonably sized towns have branches of Debenhams and it would be better to have awful buildings of what was there as opposed to the rubble now due because they were used for business, retail etc. Wonder what we will see here now an expansion of the Forster Square retail Park or maybe that Alsop lake. This is just embrassing and would imagine it to be a huge political scandal if true as it seems Bradford City Council and Bradford City Regeneration should have done so much more to save this development and some serious restructuring needs to be done of those two entities and heads must roll if Bradford is to be left with a half of its city centre being rubble. :ohno:

Rob

August 31st, 2006, 09:21 PM

I did read an article in the T&A a couple of weeks ago that the start date is slipping, and Bradford Council have asked the developers for a start on site date, but were not given an answer. See the link below -

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/search/display.var.836852.0.when_will_broadway_building_work_start.php

Baht'at

August 31st, 2006, 10:00 PM

Dan B

September 1st, 2006, 01:20 AM

JOliver I am of course he, web-master ordinaire and fotografeur shocking!

Val Verde
As to Broadway - no source as such other than an absence of confirmation when you ask around. You can see from the T&A article (which I must confess to not having seen but I tend to dismiss the T&A as being too much in the pockets of the council) that Debenhams seemed to be in the driving seat. I can only assume that they didn't get what they wanted and went off in a huff.

There is also this from the Wibs (http://www.bradford.libdems.org.uk/news/96.html) which has a certain logic to it - if Westfield have limited resources then they are going to go with White City rather than Broadway.

You also have to remember that Bradford isn't like cities of a similar size, firstly the ethnic mix perhaps militates against the rather dowdy middle class values of Debenhams, secondly the centre has been run down for so long that the majority of people have got used to shopping in Leeds and thirdly Bradford is becoming more of a dormitory town for Leeds than anything else.

Personally I think that if the area was nicely landscaped it would make a nice park and by removing so much retail space it would ensure that the rest of the centre was fully occupied, at the moment if it does open I can see the rest of the centre being denuded of any other shops at all - as it is one of the pound shops on John Street has closed down.

Hmm, so it's not for definate, but it's been strucken a blow. It does seem Debenhams is in the driving seat with this one, unfortunately. As for the ethnic side of it, I read an article about some Asian businessman discussing some specialist shops, restaurants and the like for Muslim dress and food, that should cover that side of it and Westfield were willing to accomodate it. They also suggest prayer facilities, but I think public space should be strictly secular, keep Churches to Churches, Mosques to Mosques, Synagogs to Synagogs and Temples to Temples.

Your idea about rejuvinating the rest of the centre and reusing it is certainly a decent one, however, I'm not sure if there are any particular buildings large enough or in fiting with the modern department store, of which there is only currently one in the centre: Sunwin House. Though certainly, if not for shops alone but for offices and apartments, they should be looking within the built environment.

One of the things it can of course do is act as a catalyst for the rest of the area. If Bradfordians then have department stores and other shops they might be more willing to stay in the centre than hop on the train to Leeds.

As for the park, it's a nice thought and a pretty good setting for it, but again it's a fair chunk of the centre knocked out there. It seems though that something similar might occur on the current site of the Police Station and Magistrates Courts. It's already part a park, and would look good as a sort of compromise between a park and a square, with what will now be a pool instead of the lake, hopefully downsized aswell. If Channing Way is gotten rid of to further seque between Centenery Square and this new park, it could create one big park in the centre. Hopefully this will mean, with the proposed business park running up the Manchester Road area, that Princes Way could be pedestrianised with the road running underneath in a tunnel, as it is such a barier from that end into the centre. I'd also hope they make good use of this space of land; an underground car park with a road leading off from Princes Way would be an excellent entrance into the city. I've seen it done in Maastrict in Holland and they had steps and lifts that ran right up into the square, would be good to see this in Bradford.

Thirdly I wouldn't bet on the Victoria Place development either - a chunk of it is supposedly for Bradford College and I'm not sure that the past expansion of the education sector can continue.

All the better if it doesn't happen, relocate to it to the Car Dealership, where, I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem the peak of architectural excellence or have any historical links, and, oh yeah, is not capable of being a decent Music Venue. Another point is that one of the councillors was sceptical about the use of the hotel in the development, seen as there are already enough in the centre. In fact all the more reason to get rid of this:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3615/06may04am20004fe4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
(Of course another image of yours Baht'at)

It really is grim and awful adjacent City Hall. Why they choose the Odeon for demolision before this I really don't understand. Bloody Maud.

There's atleast one good piece of news though, work on the Gatehaus is coming along:

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2595/p8311508yz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It may be just apartments but they'll be damn good looking one's. Having said that I've heard there'll be some office space and cafe-bar type developments on the ground level, providing an active frontage, which is good to make a city look alive. As for that car place, somehow I think that'll need going.

Dan B

September 3rd, 2006, 05:12 PM

Some more information about the Channel Project. They're planning to use local workmen, which should be good to stimulate the Job market in construction for quite a few years:

''Developers pledge to use local labour
By Will Kilner
It would be a "crying shame" if hundreds of construction jobs needed to build a £350 million city- centre development were to go out of the district.

That's the message from regeneration boss Councillor Andrew Mallinson who says Bradford Council is doing everything it can to encourage people into the industry.

The company behind the Bradford Channel urban village have announced that 250 construction workers will be needed in the first phase of the ambitious ten-year project.

continued...
And Bradford Channel Limited (BCL) says it will look to use "local labour" as it seeks builders, electricians, plumbers and heating engineers for the construction of 1,000 top-quality apartments along with shops, bars and offices.

Harold Robinson, chairman of Magellan Properties, which fronts the BCL partnership, said: "We will look to use local labour as far as we can. We can insist that the contractor uses local labour and we intend to.

"In any one period of constructing a block, which may take 18 months at a time, there will be about 250 people employed constructing that block over that period.

"We are going to be building continuously for about ten years, so there are lots of opportunities."

Bradford Council's regeneration portfolio holder Coun Mallinson (Con, Craven) said: "We are working as hard as we can to make sure we have the right skills available.

"During the planning process all companies involved in the city's regeneration programme have been made aware of our requirements - which include local employment.

"At the moment we have a shortage of those with basic construction skills and we are encouraging people to join the industry which can be highly paid.

"There will be so much construction work in Bradford alone over the next 15 to 20 years anybody that goes into the industry now is getting themselves a safe job."

The urban village is designed to revitalise a slice of the city centre with prestigious buildings surrounding a central water feature. The project is based on the Will Alsop masterplan for the city.

Maud Marshall, chief executive of Bradford Centre Regeneration, said: "The Channel urban village will be an exciting addition to the landscape of Bradford and will create a significant number of jobs for the local community."

As well as the employment created in the construction phase, the development is designed to create 750 permanent jobs and spin-off employment.

When the hotel featured in the plan is up and running, it is estimated that 200 staff will be needed to run it.

Meanwhile, BCL believes at least 300 more jobs will be created in the site's offices.

Mr Robinson said: "This should be an exciting time for Bradford. We at The Channel can't wait to get started and see our vision for a Bradford for the 21st century become a reality.

"We believe our scheme is just what is needed to kick-start the regeneration in the city. Bradford is already one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the country and we're determined to give it some of the infrastructure to reflect that status."

BCL is in talks with the Council's planners over the outline details. The plans are not expected to go before committee until November.''

Also details how they'll be a hotel and shops and restaurants etc. on the ground floor, which will be good to continue the city centre up that way, alongside the eventual (if it ever happens) Broadway extension. I'm all for this project, as what's there currently is a mix of waste ground and a few shed-like stores and supermarket's. Can't see why people complain about the height. The tallest are only a few meters taller than the City Hall clock tower and none go higher than the Lister's Mill Chimney.

Seems work on the Empress Apartments is also coming along, from some of Baht'at's photo's. Shame they couldn't include a pub on the ground floor though:

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/2333/060831camera20pm20052xb5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I've heard the designs quite dull though. Something like this would've look fantastic here, jotting out from the Centenary Square development:

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/7272/712tt3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I think buildings have to make a statement, rather than hide away, afraid to make an impact (not to encourage wacky Alsop stuff though), there's been some awful examples of cheap and fake sandstone: here in particular where they also don't seem to understand the idea of having the same street level:

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/5900/060831camera20pm20022zx7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/6103/060901camera20074wc3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is just offensive and that grey cladding serves only to cheapen it further.

di Livio

September 3rd, 2006, 09:40 PM

This is just offensive and that grey cladding serves only to cheapen it further.

Yikes. Is that the Rawson Quarter?

Dan B

September 3rd, 2006, 09:55 PM

Yikes. Is that the Rawson Quarter?

Yep, appaling isn't it?

And here's the culprit's:

http://www.stainforth-construction.co.uk/index.php

Interesting to note, they were the same one's to ruin Sunwin House (T.J. Hughes). If you want a cheap job doing, come to them.

Baht'at

September 7th, 2006, 05:37 PM

Yikes. Is that the Rawson Quarter?
Bad isn't it - but better than the hole that was there for years because the council screwed up on the funding for it.

Which of course brings us back to the hole where Broadway was!

Dan B

September 7th, 2006, 08:55 PM

NEWS PEOPLE!

Valley NDF is apparently released according to the T&A:

''Britain's first city centre science business park, a European-style boulevard, and proposed major changes to Bradford's inner ring road were revealed today.

A detailed proposal to transform Thornton Road into a stylish boulevard lined with cafes and trees is one of the top priority projects contained within the Valley Neighbourhood Development Framework, the third of the four key zones in Bradford's "Birth of a New City" regeneration initiative.

The new blueprint covers a large part of the west side of the city centre.

The draft document also proposes the country's first city centre science park alongside a landmark residential scheme on the site of the former gasworks in Thornton Road. Another of the proposed priorities involves creating a park on the slopes of the reopened Bradford Beck below Bradford College and the University.

continued...
The blueprint has been described as a detailed interpretation of Will Alsop's city centre masterplan but it also con tains substantial revisions.

Dave Preece, Bradford Council's group planning manager, said the area covered in the Valley had now been extended to join up an area where Mr Alsop left a gap between the valley neighbourhood and the markets zone.

The Valley NDF also focuses on Goitside, which was not included in the original city centre masterplan.

Mr Alsop's iconic Bridge of Learning, which would have linked the university, college and city centre, has been axed.

The idea was considered a "bit wacky," according to Mr Preece, who said there were more practical ways of linking the three.

Mr Alsop's plan for a wetland on the site of the former gasworks has also been dropped because levels of contamination made it impractical, according to a consultation team led by the Urban Economic Development Group (URBED).

And his vision of a vast park alongside Bradford Beck has been scaled down because increased property prices mean it is no longer possible to turn over so much land to open space.

Mr Preece, unveiling the blueprint on behalf of the Council, said: "This report contains some quite substantial changes to the original masterplan."

The Council will present the proposals to the public at an exhibition running from Monday until Wednesday, September 13, in the new reception area at City Hall.

Comment forms will be available and people have a three week period, up to October 2, to view the blueprint at planning offices in Bradford, Keighley, Ilkley, Shipley and the libraries in Bradford, Keighley, Shipley, Bingley and Ilkley.

Comments should be sent to the Planning Implementation Group, Bradford Council, Transportation Design and Planning Department, FREEPOST, BD818, 8th floor, Jacobs Well, Bradford, BD1 1BR.

See Regeneration Features on this website''

Interesting how that link on the end wasn't really a link at all and that no Valley NDF is on the Council's website. Hopefully they'll put it up tommorow, as all there is now is a crappy little picture, which apparently is supposed to show some amazing business park or boulevard, all it looks like to me is some throwback to the 60's concrete blocks with dodgy shapes:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/564/montage1276195fullpe3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Interesting how these look a lot like those three corridor 60's apartment blocks that infest the place around Manchester Road and the Cathedral Area(Which could easily be done up in a sort of organic revamp, using wood and natural colours). Just hope Thorton Road won't look like some brutalist nightmare with a bit more so called 'style'.

Although it's currently a dump of a road, it has the right topography to be a very good introduction to the city, hopefully with decent mid to high risers. I could imagine it being similar to Oxford Road in Manchester as it is similarly flat unlike alot of introductory roads into the centre. I personally liked these designs from Acanthus architects:

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/1389/714cf3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6828/713sv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9822/712tq1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

These would all be fantastic along Thorton Road. Good to see Alsops plans have been scaled back or entirely gotten rid off. They just aren't practical, that and everything he makes is horrid.

This is just a draft so hopefully design will be radically changed.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/display.var.911757.0.rebirth_of_the_valley.php

http://www.acanthus.co.uk/project.aspx?mid=4&sectorID=7&type=a&pid=209

Gallery North

September 10th, 2006, 11:11 PM

Well nothing is happening at Broadway as you can see (about 11ish this morning)

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/miscf/P8311446.jpg

Is this a lack of foresight on behalf of the developers or what?
I cannot understand why they would partake of such a project unless they had some firm commitments.
However, being in Bradford on Friday I thought I would take this picture of the project so far.
A Bradford Pyramid looks like the order of the day. :jk:

The Bradford Pyramid

http://www.gallerynorth.co.uk/forum/Bradford.jpg

Dan B

September 13th, 2006, 03:23 AM

As I've mentioned before the Valley NDF has been released, I've now seen you can view it and download it here on the council website:

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/environment/land_and_premises/planning/the_valley_ndf.htm

There's also a T&A article that details the possibility of a 25 STOREY TOWER! This being at the former Gasworks Listergate development.

'''Exciting' welcome for Valley blueprint
By Will Kilner

Plans for the redevelopment of the Valley area of the city are studied by a visitor
A major regeneration blueprint was greeted with "excitement" when it was officially launched to the public at a special exhibition yesterday.

The latest detailed interpretation of Will Alsop's masterplan, covering a city centre zone known as the Valley, is being showcased in the new reception area at City Hall, where eight giant information panels provide pictures and descriptions.

And as residents of the district are beginning to discover, the so-called Neighbourhood Development Framework, or NDF for short, is more exciting than its cumbersome name suggests. The document contains plans to create the UK's first city centre science park and a European-style boulevard on Thornton Road. Major changes to the inner city ring road are also proposed as part of a grand plan to regenerate the area.

A steady stream of people have been visiting the exhibition, which runs until tomorrow, and many have expressed enthusiasm for the content of the Valley NDF. Satnam Thiara, from the Bolton area of Bradford, said: "Plans like this are good for the city. I'm impressed and I hope it continues throughout Bradford."

continued...
He said he was especially keen on the plans for more urban living. The NDF proposes a Goitside Urban Village and a landmark residential development, rising up to 25 storeys, on the former gasworks site off Thornton Road.

Taqu Mir, of Duckworth Lane, Bradford, said the plans were "excellent" and would be great for the Valley area.

But he said: "I'm interested in buying an old mill in the Paradise Street area for my car body kits business but, if the road is going to be going through there, I'm wondering if it will be subject to a compulsory purchase. That's a bit worrying but, if it didn't go through the mill, the plan would probably be quite good for business."

Anthony Mann, chairman of Bradford Civic Society, welcomed the latest NDF and said it should be embraced.

He said: "We like the linear park and the ideas for the bottom of the college. It's exciting. Let's get on with it."

Professor Chris Taylor, vice chancellor of the University of Bradford and Chair of the Neighbourhood Development Framework for the Valley, said: "One of the most crucial aspects of this plan is to create an improved linkage between the educational quarter of Bradford and the city centre.

"It will help Bradford to reap the economic benefits of being a university city by encouraging our staff and students into the life of the city centre."

- What by having the second worst nightlife in the country? Where are the clubs and bars?

I thought I'd also post some of the images from the document for the benefit of the forum. Pdf's are notoriously bad to get images from, involving a whole big process of printing off and then scanning. If anyone knows of another, please tell me, it's very time consuming at present. As I'm gonna be busy for the next few days, I'm just posting the pictures, I'll later post my view point.

Valley NDF designs and plans:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4995/goitsidemasterplanqw7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/586/valleyndf1ax0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/504/valleyndf2ox4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/8539/valleyndf3sl6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1271/valleyndf4uv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7893/valleyndf5oh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2433/valleyndf6uy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6315/valleyndf7ae9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'll refrain from commenting right now, as I'm really tired, though I do have my opinions particularly on the archtecture and apropriateness of the use of the buildings.

One other rather important matter. I recently stumbled across a new video called Bradford Squared showing an updated version of the masterplan. This was mentioned in a T&A article a few weeks back and it's by the same one's that made the Alsop one. I'd say if anyone's interested in Bradford's regeneration they should watch this video. It's quite well made, while a little cheesy in parts and shows renders of the new city park and pool (interesting to note the multistorey car park also dissapears), the new magistrates courts (which looked a bit terrible, I'm glad that it's just a draft, one firmly in the Alsop camp, which means it's certain not to appear), A part of the Broadway development (which in this render has got worse again, looking like some in-part concrete monstrocity, again I blame it on the Alsop alegiances with the guys that made this), it then moves on to the Asquith Tower on Manchester Road, which springs up out of the ground while panes of glass add themselved to the structure, and which by the looks of it, has significantly improved with highly reflective glass instead of the dark glass showed before (still has the yellow or wooden bits though, bit pointless if you ask me, they should make those slightly contrasting strip mirrors or something), from there we're taken to the Channel Urban Village, which looks much the same except one of the buildings looks like it's been changed from a red clad to a sandstone one, next comes the Gatehaus, stunning as ever and then it finishes on Highpoint.

Here's the video, it's definately worth the watch to see what they're planning, hopefully with some adjustments:

http://www.squintopera.com/item.php?id=68

They also had a render of the casa mela on the site, looks so much better and livelier than Victoria Place, while I wouldn't want to see the Odeon go, this'd be an acceptable replacement:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/561/cgi03xh3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Dan B

September 24th, 2006, 02:38 AM

Some news on the Channel Development:

'Crunch time for Channel building'
By Will Kilner

The smaller towers of the Bradford Channel scheme
A showpiece development designed to kick-start Bradford's regeneration is at a "critical stage" in the planning process, it was revealed today.

Independent reviewers are ready to scrutinise plans for the £350 million Bradford Channel scheme, near Forster Square, after negotiations between the developer and planners broke down.

The team behind the proposals, Bradford Channel limited (BCL), say they have "compromised enough" on the proposed height of the buildings during long-running discussions with Bradford Council's planning department.

If the landmark scheme had to be further diluted it would lose its striking element and would no longer be viable, according to BCL.

continued...
The Urban Economic Development Group (URBED) has just been appointed as the independent consultant charged with the task of deciding if the scheme needs to be further revised or is acceptable in its current form.

URBED will hold a workshop involving all interested parties in a fortnight, before reporting back with their recommendation in the first week of October.

BCL are desperate not to make more concessions, having already made major revisions to the scheme's two iconic tower developments, with the office tower reduced from 22 storeys to 13 and the residential tower down from 25 storeys to 22.

The wrangling over the height of the towers comes at a time when Leeds City Council looks set to grant planning permission for the 52-storey Lumiere development.

The original proposal
"It's an interesting contrast. I don't think Bradford is ready for anything like that, but it is certainly ready for a 20-odd storey development," said Harold Robinson, chairman of Magellan Properties, which fronts the BCL partnership.

"The major cities throughout the world are competing for the tallest building. We are not part of that competition, but Bradford has got to start somewhere," he said.

The ten-year Channel scheme, which would require 250 construction workers during the first phase, would see the creation of a large canal basin surrounded by 2,600 apartments, about 30 shops, bars, cafes, gyms, creche, a hotel and offices.

The scheme forms a strategic part of the city centre masterplan, as the 1.25 hectare site takes up the lion's share of one of the four neighbourhood quarters pinpointed for regeneration.

Mr Robinson said: "It's a critical time for the scheme. We hope URBED will report back with a recommendation that's acceptable to us, Bradford Centre Regeneration and the planning authority.

"We would have liked to have done what we originally proposed, but we still think what we have now will create an image of a 21st century urban village.

"We have still got one tower which will be visible for people coming down Shipley-Airedale Road or from Broadway, so people will know we are here.

"We think we have compromised enough. Any more and it loses its striking element and if we compromise more the viability of the scheme is also brought into question."

Bradford Council said it would be "inappropriate" to comment with the review pending. A spokesman said the council would respond once the results of the review were known.

Wish it would be allowed to stay the same as the first plans. As it is, it's good that the BCL are standing their ground and refusing to go any lower. The tallest one's will be a 13 storey office tower and a 22 storey residential tower. Hopefully these will remain as they are and not go further. As for the spiral design, I can't really see it on this new render, which would be immensely dissapointing if that design wasn't used. Here's the render:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4328/channel3282813fullzt5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

as compared to this, the original:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7109/channel2282814fullns3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It seems much more blocky and has less of the curves than the original, one of the most interesting features of its design aspect.

JOliver

September 24th, 2006, 05:44 PM

bradfordlass

October 7th, 2006, 11:23 PM

Driving through Bradford the other day, down Manchester Road towards the city centre. There are some 'regenerated' flats on the left (3 towers of them). On top of them are steel structures, looking very much like solar panels and a large 'radar' type structure, one of which was turning.

I ask...Do these structures serve a purpose or are they just decorative?

Been trying to find a photo of them but have had no luck :-( .

Dan B

October 9th, 2006, 05:50 AM

I think Bradford council have got it all wrong – there task is to make city look nicer, not uglier. So far this year all their decisions have been all wrong. First Odeon – just look at the beauty that they rejected – now Channel. From sleek and nice it became short, blocky and ugly after the redesigning exercise. After the Broadway news I won't be surprised if developer pulls out of this project altogether.

Agreed, the Odeon being a prime example of a council having lost touch with its public, ignoring opportunities for entertainment, nightlife and culture, which all seem irrelevant in the council's and BCR's grand scheme, besides their idea that putting cafe's everywhere will solve their problems. Exactly what would attract people to live in the city if there was nothing to do when they got their? If you build apartments build them further out and leave that area of the city for nightlife, entertainment, music and culture. The amount of clubs in Bradford is ridiculous; any other city of its size would have far more. I suppose there's reasons for it i.e. nearby Leeds sucks people in, 22% of the population are Muslim and the majority of those don't drink, and half of the student population are also Muslim, leaving about 5,000 who might invest into the scene, and even then would probably go to Leeds often. Having said that though, the cycle has to be broken somewhere and doing nothing will not help it. Recently I saw on Glydegate Square that a cafe bar was opening in the small building there, opposite Walkabout and Wetherspoons. I could see bottles inside, so it will be part of the nightlife scene, and would work well in summer if plenty of tables and chairs are put out around it. However this is all too little, Jumping Jaks has closed down, there's been a missed opportunity on Morley Street where a classy bar could have been, is now just student accommodation and the vacant building opposite Wardley House remains so.

Anyway, onto the Channel. It does seem a vast disappointment especially if the Spiral Tower is lost. I would think a lot of forward thinking people would be disappointed when they see promises like these:

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4427/060904camera20026wu0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

not actually being constructed as shown. As for the density argument, why would this be a problem? Based on this argument high density cities like New York would be completely unworkable. As for the height argument, the tallest one would only be one metre above City Hall Clock tower at 67 metres and none are as tall as Lister's Mill Chimney.

As for Broadway, it might not be all doom and gloom, a more reassuring piece in the T&A had this to say:

''Broadway construction 'will start in New Year'
By Will Kilner

A regeneration chief has moved to reassure people about the progress of Bradford's £300 million Broad-way shopping scheme.

Councillor Andrew Mallinson, Bradford Council's executive member for regeneration, said there was "great confidence" developer Westfield would start construction work in the new year.

Westfield had previously stated it had hoped to start work in the second half of this year.

Coun Mallinson said building work had yet to start because the Australian company was still signing up retailers to take lettings in the shopping centre.

Debenhams and BHS are the main tenants to take space in the yet-to-be-built centre. There will be more than 80 other shops, 171 apartments and 1,800 parking spaces.

Coun Mallinson said Westfield had already invested heavily in the Broadway project and was fully committed to it, but the apparent lack of progress has led the Liberal Democrat group to call for an urgent report into the future of the Broadway scheme.

Councillor David Ward said he feared Westfield was either being side-tracked by its increased involvement in London's White City shopping scheme or was struggling to find tenants for the Broadway Centre.

He said: "It seems to me that something has gone badly wrong."

Coun Ward said his group would be putting down a series of questions for the next meeting of Bradford Council to press for answers as to why major construction work was yet to start.

He said he had already called for an urgent report into the future of the development, while group leader Councillor Jeanette Sunderland had been seeking talks with the Council's director of regeneration.

Westfield has declined to comment on Coun Ward's claims.

A Bradford Council spokesman said it had spoken to Westfield about the change of contractor for the White City development and was confident it would have no implications for the Broadway development.

Coun Mallinson said: "We are still waiting for Westfield to come on site.

"There's great confidence Westfield will be on site early next year.

"There is still an issue around Westfield signing up lettings. With the amount of money it has invested so far, it would be ridiculous for it to walk away now."

Westfield acquired the Broadway development in December 2004, when it took over the parent company of Stannifer, the firm which had been spearheading the scheme.

A Council spokesman said: "There are likely to be some changes to the scheme and the planning department are discussing these with Westfield."

The spokesman said the Council was not yet in a position to say what these changes might be.''

So could start early next year, if Andrew Mallinson is to be believed, though I'm sure misleading the public this far down the line would result in absolute outrage if it came to pass that it failed. As it seems the white city project should not inflict damage on the project, but then, nothing's for definite.

Some of the questions I have about the project though are on the designs and how they seem to contradict each other:

Broadway Kirkgate Square:

This:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/7770/broadway2ng9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Or this:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5996/broadway6gz6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Or this?:

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2329/broadwaygy1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

From looking at the plans of the project it seems the latter is most likely, although my personal favourite was the first.

Hall Ings/Leeds Road/Well Street Junction

This one seems to get worse as it goes along:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7479/broadway3cm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Starting off as a nicely modern, stylistic and overall aesthetically pleasing design. Then changes to this:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7255/broadway4mq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Far uglier in this CG render and very much altered, but it gets worse:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4451/bradfordvideo5oa1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Some nasty concrete and multicoloured structure. Hopefully this is just because of Squint-Opera's allegiances to Alsop and his wackiness. But why should they try to rework an already superior design? As a side note the green column would be nice if it was done in weathered copper.

Some more sketches of Broadway:

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4941/broadway1ea9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This seems to be on the new Forster Square. My only problem with it is the needlessly warehouse shed like roof and beams.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/6092/broadway5vq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This one appears to show the point in the development where Bolton Road and Canal Road meet up. Some of the metal rails and the roof could do with getting rid of, and instead making the curved part somewhat taller.

Having mentioned squint opera, I should probably put up the rest of the renders from their video Bradford Squared:

City Centre Park and Pool:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1020/bradfordvideo1rg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/8289/bradfordvideo2fq9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/497/bradfordvideo3bw6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The pool (shallow and drainable) appears to be a third of the size of the original lake, although I find it encroaches on some of the greenery and layout of Centenary Square over to the left of the picture. It also seems to redesign the square, although this is unlikely as it's fine as it is. I disagree with the idea of having buildings on that site as it would detract from the idea of the park, it should revert to the original plans of the business forest on the other side Princes Way with that pedestrianised with a tunnel underneath. It's also interesting that the Multi-storey car park disappears in the video, hopefully it's replacement would come in the form of an underground one below the new park site with pedestrian links to the surface.

The New Magistrates Courts:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5002/bradfordvideo4av5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This occupies the make-shift car park near to the Law Courts and Victoria Hotel. The designs as current are less than inspiring and quite ugly. Hopefully the final thing will be a lot more aesthetically pleasing.

Manchester Road Asquith Tower:

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6703/4735asquithresidentialtowerpic1fz2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Interesting to see how this has turned into this:

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/1443/bradfordvideo8ro9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A vast improvement and just what I was thinking in how they should change it, with highly reflective glass. However it would look better without all the yellow bits, as this picture shows:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8560/bradfordvideo7cw4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

What would be more suitable would be jutting out mirrored glass parts, so as to create a contrast while allowing for non-windowed parts for the interior.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4291/bradfordvideo9os4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Bradford Channel:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5002/bradfordvideo10nx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A street scene of what could have been. All very impressive and beautiful buildings surround.

The Gatehaus, Leeds Road

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6811/bradfordvideo11vr5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another nice shot of this actually being built project, currently on it's fifth storey I believe. Not sure if there's that much space at the front for that greenery. Seems strange that they cut back on shape and curves at the Channel development, while this one is a very good example of such aesthetics actually being constructed.

Highpoint:

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8194/bradfordvideo12ux2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7701/bradfordvideo13sv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Windows seem oddly large in this render. Really wished they'd gone for something more adventurous with this, but at least it's changing a very ugly eyesore into something alright and 4 storeys higher.

You can watch the Bradford Squared video here:

http://www.squintopera.com/item.php?id=68

Driving through Bradford the other day, down Manchester Road towards the city centre. There are some 'regenerated' flats on the left (3 towers of them). On top of them are steel structures, looking very much like solar panels and a large 'radar' type structure, one of which was turning.

I ask...Do these structures serve a purpose or are they just decorative?

Been trying to find a photo of them but have had no luck :-( .

I know them well and can see them from my bedroom window. There is in fact 5 of them and on their roofs are Solar Panels and Wind Turbines (radar type structures). They power half the building's lights and add an aesthetically pleasing design to them. As well as this, the recladding of the structure no doubt helps to keep in heat and thus cut costs, similar to the aims of the Richmond Building with it's recladding scheme.

Here are the original plans:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8189/largejb1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6910/smallkk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Although turned out much better, here's a picture I took from the train:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3661/ecofriendlyapartmentsep0yt4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

They have a really futuristic feel about them, and should be common policy undertaken for blocks of flats from the 60's and 70's.

Oh yes and one last thing, they light up in blue until 12 midnight and then again in the early hours until it becomes light.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7908/26013318933faeaa29ces9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Rob

October 11th, 2006, 07:43 PM

The non-existant developers of the Broadway Shopping Centre has just featured on Look North. Still no sign of anyone and they couldn't contact anyone for the programme. Doesn't look too promising.

Val Verde

October 11th, 2006, 07:51 PM

Just been a report on BBC Look North now about the seemingly still born Broadway shopping Centre scheme. It can be seen at the following link: http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?q=Bradford+shopping+centre&scope=all&edition=d&tab=av&recipe=all

Still no news on what is happening which is the whole theme of that report however with no action it looks like its been quietly cancelled which I posted eariler that it would be disasterous for this city. Would anyone have any ideas as to what will go on this site now?

Dan B

October 12th, 2006, 01:20 AM

The non-existant developers of the Broadway Shopping Centre has just featured on Look North. Still no sign of anyone and they couldn't contact anyone for the programme. Doesn't look too promising.

Just been a report on BBC Look North now about the seemingly still born Broadway shopping Centre scheme. It can be seen at the following link: http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?q=Bradford+shopping+centre&scope=all&edition=d&tab=av&recipe=all

Still no news on what is happening which is the whole theme of that report however with no action it looks like its been quietly cancelled which I posted eariler that it would be disasterous for this city. Would anyone have any ideas as to what will go on this site now?

Hmm, best not to jump to conclusions, after all that report was repeating the same concerns as previously stated by the Lib Dems and Baht'at on here. Since those concerns were raised there was an article in the T&A which I included in my last post. This seems the key bit:

'' A Bradford Council spokesman said it had spoken to Westfield about the change of contractor for the White City development and was confident it would have no implications for the Broadway development.

Coun Mallinson said: "We are still waiting for Westfield to come on site.

"There's great confidence Westfield will be on site early next year.

"There is still an issue around Westfield signing up lettings. With the amount of money it has invested so far, it would be ridiculous for it to walk away now." ''

I would tend to agree, having gone this far, it probably is unlikely for them to give up having lost several million pounds in the investment up until now. After all the report did say it could be delayed until next year and not cancelled, which is what I thought anyway.

I do of course still criticise these delays. Surely actually making the thing would build confidence in possible outleters, instead of waiting for everyone to sign up. If I knew it was certainly going ahead that'd make me wanna sign up.

One thing this report could do is kick their arses into gear, letting them know we're still waiting.

LeedsLad

October 12th, 2006, 10:15 PM

Dan B

October 13th, 2006, 02:26 AM

On Look North tonight it said the delay was in waiting to find a major retailer to sign up... Have to say this is much needed for Bradford, but as it stands (a flat area of rubble) this scheme could still easily be downscaled or cancelled (cheaper than building a huge empty mall)... Good luck Bradford!!

I think you've got that wrong. Nowhere on the Look North report does it say that it is because of finding a major retailer to sign up. As we all know Debenhams, BHS and J.H. Samuel (not sure if that's the right name) have all signed up, taking up the two department stores and the latter probably a large shop. It is probably other smaller shops where it is running into problems. Surely it makes sense to actually build it though, if retailers knew it was going up surely that'd boost confidence. Certainly hope it doesn't get downscaled, that'd be a vast dissapointment for everyone.

On another note, coming home from Leeds tonight, the taxi driver told us that Bradford used to have loads of clubs, and then around ten years ago they all started closing down and being demolished. He seemed to think this co-incided with Leeds regeneration. Could anyone tell me more on this, as he seemed to suggest it used to be better than Leeds, something I found hard to believe given it's current state.

birkyboy

October 13th, 2006, 09:15 PM

Dan B

October 14th, 2006, 05:19 PM

Tonight's T&A might clear up a few unfound rumours. 'Westfield totally committed to Bradford' After all ready spending £50 Million on the site the scheme is definitely going ahead.

As for Bradford being a better night out 15years or so a go it probably was. I used to go out into Bradford nearly every Saturday night and Leeds on Friday after finishing work. Those were the days.

Bradford. Had Cloud Nine, Jb's, Blue lace, Mr Craigs (for short time) Ely Mcflys, Berlins, 5th ave, Vips, dukes/silks, Dollars and Dimes.

Leeds Mr Craigs, Confetti's, Conservatory, Oscars, The Bond, Hustlers, The Guilford, stumps

Is what I rememeber

Overall Bradford was superior plus you could get a good curry.

Things have changed, but after 5 pints most places are the same to me.

Cheers for the news, good to hear some reassurance.

They've also got new images:

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3010/bradfordbroadwayinsideli3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The first internal picture of the project, looks quite nice and stylish.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9898/bradfordbroadwayoutsideib0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Not the worst rendition, given the last two they presented of this end of the project, however still not as good as the original sketch which had a greater sense of togetherness. As for this one, the Debenhams store doesn't look too bad, but they definately shouldn't put the Westfield sign up, it'd look very tacky. The building off to the left seems to have changed. It's now white and brown, which isn't the Bradford colours at all. A mix of sandstone, blue, black and reflective glass is the best option, as in the original. I also cannot see the Bridge on this render, which seemed a nice idea to connect it up with the law courts. Looks like they had the best ideas to begin with and then went back on them, also notice the cylindrical glass tower seems to have gone, unless it is that from this perspective you can't see it.

Here's the article from the T&A:

''Broadway developers say: 'We're totally committed'
By Jo Winrow

Exclusive new artists' impressions, above and below, of how Bradford's new Broadway shopping centre will look after its completion
The developer behind Bradford's £300 million Broadway shopping scheme has given an unequivocal guarantee that the centre will go ahead.

"We are not walking away from Bradford. We have spent £50 million already and the scheme is definitely going ahead. We are totally committed to it," said Westfield's director of corporate affairs Simon Holberton.

Mr Holberton admitted that the early demolition of buildings had perhaps "raised expectations" but went on to say: "We are not walking away from it. We have just got to do it the right way. These things take time.

"The scheme is attracting interest from very significant retailers and we are in discussion with them and others about taking large spaces.

"We are proceeding with it as expeditiously and carefully as we can and it's on course."

Mr Holberton would not be drawn on a start date for construction or when the massive shopping centre would be opening its doors to shoppers as he said it would be against company policy.

However, he did say: "When the centre opens it's going to be full of retailers who are going to really excite the people of Bradford. We don't want to open something that's just half empty. We are working very hard to ensure that when it opens it's going to have a full complement of retailers. We want to do all that preparation ahead of time."

His reassurances follow criticisms in some quarters about the pace of the development.

Bradford councillor David Ward has said: "To us it's a tragedy that this development has slowed down. In fact it has ground to a halt."

Coun Ward (Lib Dem, Idle and Thackley) has been calling for answers as to why major construction work has not yet started. He previously told the Telegraph & Argus he feared Westfield was struggling to find tenants for the Broadway shopping centre.

Talks have been taking place between Bradford Council planners and Westfield - the world's largest retail operator - for a number of months concerning small changes to the plans. They are currently in the process of checking that pre-construction planning conditions are complied with.

The complex will include 100 shops, two department stores, 171 apartments and a large car park, with retail giants Debenhams and BHS among the main tenants.

The T&A has previously reported the Council's regeneration chief Coun Andrew Mallinson being confident Westfield would start construction work in the new year. Last month he said building work had yet to start because the Australian company was still signing up retailers.

Westfield acquired the site in December 2004, when it took over the parent company of Stannifer, the firm which had been spearheading the scheme.

It began dismantling and demolishing the empty buildings at the end of last year. But there has been an apparent lack of activity in the past few months leading to speculation about its future.''

From this article it seems the place will be having more shops (100) and less apartments (171), Previously the amount of apartments was higher and shops lower (90, 80, 70 even). Good to see they're more firmly focused on retail. Can't see why the council planners keep wanting to change designs, the original sketches were far superior to these CG's they keep churning out. Speaking of which, here's some more from architects Benoy:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/116/bradfordbroadwayskectch1pj5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another sketch, similar to the one above but with a bit more of the square things, really find these pointless, the original sketch had them drawn out but in shapes of glass in the same colour, would've worked a lot better in subtlety.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/627/bradfordbroadwayskectch2ce6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It seems the Cylindrical tower is gone, as this design shows, it's now very angular in the background, although it may still be cylindrical in some parts as other plans show:

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/9026/bradfordbroadwayplan2qo1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This probably gives the best indication of what the site will look like overall, although this might be outdated. Interesting to note that the white and brown building mentioned earlier might actually be a car park, seeing the route of the ramp. I can't understand for the life of me why they don't just make one huge underground car park, it's such a space saver, although I read somewhere that was a government decision, their logic is illogical. Could've made more space for shops, offices or apartments if they have to. From this image it also seems the cylindrical building is dissected by a rectangle, so maybe there is both, a pure cylinder would've looked nive though. The curviness to the top of the picture looks like a good addition, elsewhere though design seems a bit on the lazy side i.e. to the right, with the low rised buildings with grass to the back. I assume this is where the apartments will be, but it just looks out of place.

The Car Park and ramp area:
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6682/bradfordbroadwayrender1bu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Really getting sick of these squares and rectangles, do they really need to put in the Bradford Regeneration symbols everywhere?

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8397/bradfordbroadwayplan1tg6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

With this image it seems to change again, the cylindrical one is all sorts of shapes on this except for one bit of it which still has a curved element on it. As for the apartment bit, the discontinous aspect of it seems ratified, with one long building. Still these renders don't give much of an indication of architecture besides shape.

Moving on, the decline in the club scene seems quite a sad one, that was quite a list and some of those were mentioned by this Taxi Driver, particularly Cloud Nine. Also seems like there were more independant clubs in those days. They're all chain clubs and bars these days, with the exception of the Love Apple, 1 in 12 (which has some incredibly dingy surroundings, probably suitable for an anarchist club) Rio's, Penningtons and possibly Bambooza (but I'm not sure about that one).

Is there any particular reason that it's gone so downhill though? Surely it can't just be Leeds getting itself on it's feet.

As for other news, it seems recladding/painting work is going on around the Manchester Road area. An office is being repainted, and actually looks not half bad, in white's and greys, instead of the concrete building it is, it now looks sort of futuristic, though it isn't all done yet. Further recladding work is going on one of the 'Y' shaped flats near the eco-friendly one's. It seems the one's around here will get a full facelift, I'm hoping either in a wood-ish organic style or similar to the yellowish eco-friendly one's. If this is carried out on all of them, Bradford will actually be quite pioneering in ammending some of the design mistakes on social housing from the 60's and 70's. I'm also hoping the 3 quite tall one's near the back of the Museum will be in for a reclad.

The Empress Apartments site is also coming along and seems to have reached it's full height, not quite as impressive as I'd have hoped, but I spose it stands out enough. As for it's design I'm still rather confuzzled.

birkyboy

October 16th, 2006, 01:32 PM

Daniel, the club/pub scene is totally different now. 10/15years ago City Centre drinking was confined to Friday/Saturday nights and may be the odd Thursday night. Now most places are open 7 days a week and though not packed there seems to be a reasonably heathly crowd probably encouraged by drinks promotions.

The quality of the establishments was better then though. Cloud Nine in it's hey day was quiet upmarket there was nothing in Leeds which could compare. Ely mcflys was a smashing little basement bar again fairly well to do. But now all these vertical drinking establishments seem to be much of muchness to me.

However i have noticed a few (well a couple) of small little bars opening up, theres one in Litle Germany opposite the design exchange and the kiosk thing in Glyde Gate recently opened. A couple more are planned for Little Germany so all may not be lost.

di Livio

October 19th, 2006, 01:33 PM

Another view of Victoria Place (Carey jones)

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_mix_lg/3_odeon%20cinema%20development,%20bradford_410.jpg

JOliver

October 19th, 2006, 04:44 PM

Looks much nicer than on previous renders, a shame it has to replace a nice historical building. We just had a bitter discussion on another thread about lack of historical buildings.

di Livio

October 19th, 2006, 05:30 PM

Looks much nicer than on previous renders, a shame it has to replace a nice historical building. We just had a bitter discussion on another thread about lack of historical buildings.

Cool. Which thread?

birkyboy

October 19th, 2006, 05:35 PM

Look fine to me, but nothing out of the ordinary. I just cant understand why the two domes cant be kept and incorporated into this new build.

JOliver

October 19th, 2006, 10:02 PM

Cool. Which thread?

The one you and Liam exchanged a few compliments :)

Dan B

October 19th, 2006, 10:55 PM

Another view of Victoria Place (Carey jones)

http://www.careyjones.co.uk/images/upload/arch_mix_lg/3_odeon%20cinema%20development,%20bradford_410.jpg

Look how little they know the city!

As well as trashing all over a building that the city considers (or atleast its residents) part of its heritage (last building by architect and former lord mayor William Ingleworth, at time of build largest cinema outside London), they have the idiocy to think Wardley House of the NMPFT is further up Thornton Road. Look to the bottom right of the picture. Seriously with people this disconnected with the place, the city really isn't safe in their hands. Again I'll say it wouldn't go amiss (although I do still hate the the furthest building on the right) on another site of less importance, but right on top of a city centre landmark. They have as much consideration, competance and forethought as they did in the 60's. They insult our intelegence through the lack of their's.

As for what will really be around this area, the council plan to build yet another College Building at the site of the car park opposite the Love Apple and Wetherspoons:

Work set to start on £14m college centre
By Dan Webber

Michele Sutton and Andy Welsh on the site where part of the redevelopment of the college will take place
Building work on a £14 million state-of-the-art sports and science centre for Bradford College students will begin in the new year.

An empty hall of residence will be demolished off Trinity Road to make way for the 32,000 sq metre building.

Construction work on the two-storey complex is set to begin next February, Bradford College bosses announced today.

The building, scheduled to open to staff and students in 2008, will feature fitness and sports science suites, science labs and facilities for the teaching of engineering and construction courses. The new sports facilities will be open to the public.

The project is the first phase of the college's plan to invest up to £60 million on new buildings and move closer to the city centre.

Subsequent phases planned include the demolition of the Westbrook and Randall Well buildings to make way for a new complex nearer the city centre. The college is also planning to use the redeveloped Odeon building as a gateway to its Westbrook campus.

College principal Michele Sutton said she wanted the institution to play an integral role in the regeneration of the city.

She said: "Bradford College is offering its full support to the city's regeneration.

"We know a more inspiring Bradford will help attract more students to the city. We are also fully aware of our role in Bradford's rebirth by providing better learning opportunities in better facilities.

"Our bold ambitions to create a state of the art learning environment will help us become one of the most innovative education providers in the country making Bradford a leader in education."

Mrs Sutton said the new centre would allow students to access state-of-the-art technology.

She said: "It will enable us to have a good mix of students on the site and will provide exciting, new and sustainable features which will be a first for Bradford."

Andy Welsh, the college's director of corporate services, said: "This is incredibly exciting for Bradford College. We are looking forward to making a real contribution to the city centre and the city generally."

College leaders said they were pleased to see an emphasis placed on knowledge and learning in the Valley phase of the Bradford Centre Regeneration masterplan, announced in last week's T&A.

Mrs Sutton said: "A key milestone in this vision has already been achieved with the announcement that plans for the new Odeon development will include college facilities creating a gateway to the city centre and allowing more people access to learning."

Mrs Sutton said the plan to create a park running alongside Bradford Beck, below the college's campus, was also welcome.

She said: "Green, open spaces in and around the college environment will have huge benefits to staff and students using these areas as a retreat from work and study."

Apparently then, the two main modern college buildings will be going. Can't say I'm sad, but what will replace them? Why not simply redevelop that site and leave the car park site for the use of a large club or a number of them.

It seems all the coucil is concerned with is for places to live and places to work, they don't seem to give a shit about leisure, entertainments, culture and music, past of course their little cafe culture notions.

As for other developments the University Atrium has now opened, although is still not really finished. They celebrated the University's 40th anniversary the other day:

''40 years at the forefront of learning
By Dan Webber

The Lord Mayor of Bradford, Coun Choudhary Rangzeb, and the Lady Mayoress, Zaheda Rangzeb, enjoy the celebrations
Alumni, past and present, as well as guests from throughout the city, marked the University of Bradford's 40th anniversary at a special ceremony which combined music and memories.

Internationally-acclaimed violinist and honorary graduate Tasmin Little performed alongside the university's own orchestra during the event, held in the institution's new £5 million atrium which was also officially opened.

Forty years ago to the day the Bradford Institute of Technology was granted a Royal Charter, making it the UK's 40th university.

Four decades on, the seat of learning is ranked one of the best in the country in several fields and is known throughout the world for the quality of its research and teaching.

Speaking at the anniversary ceremony, Vice-chancellor Professor Chris Taylor, said: "Forty years ago we became the UK's fortieth university.

"Our history goes back further than the founding of the university - with the original Mechanics Institute opening about 175 years ago."

Former Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson was the university's first chancellor - remaining in the role for nearly 20 years until retiring in 1985.

"He officially opened the Richmond building and served the university with great commitment," said Prof Taylor.

Professor Chris Taylor speaking at the anniversary event
"Now we have become a modern, successful, happy institution committed to staff, students, knowledge transfer, the city and social regeneration.

"Our admissions are flourishing and our campus is becoming regenerated."

The university remains a favourite of Yorkshire students, with 60 per cent of this year's undergraduates hailing from the county.

Bradford is also rated extremely highly by employers from all sectors, and has the best graduate employment figures of any university in the north of England.

It is recognised as the UK leader in widening participation to all levels of society and is now led by new chancellor and former cricket superstar, Imran Khan.

Prof Taylor believes the university has reached such dizzy heights thanks to one factor - the quality of its staff. To emphasise the point, 15 members of staff who have been with the university since day one were presented with long-service awards during the ceremony.

However, Prof Taylor sounded a note of caution when he reminded everyone that it had not all been plain sailing.

Applications for 2001 dropped 25 per cent following the Bradford riots and 9/11.

Today, the university is recognised as an important factor in the rebirth of the city.

Prof Taylor and director of estates Clive Wilson are working hand-in-hand with Bradford Centre Regeneration (BCR).

He said: "BCR has been tasked with regenerating the city centre area. The gateways are being modernised and people are living in the city again."

BCR chief executive Maud Marshall said her organisation's fortunes were "entwined" with those of the university.

She said: "Between the university and the regeneration company there exists a special relationship.

"Our fortunes are entwined. The vice-chancellor is a prominent member of the board. We are both intent on building an academic quarter and a thriving city which will be the envy of many and the twin of Leeds."

Mrs Marshall said she had been especially impressed by the new Eden Project-style atrium, designed by Saltaire architects Rance, Booth and Smith.

She said: "The atrium will act as a springboard for the regeneration of the campus and provide a meeting place for students."

The new four-storey building provides a stunning first-impression for visitors. It will provide a one-stop shop for student services, and includes Fair Trade catering provision, IT connection points and space for social and special events.

Supported on lightweight steel trusses, the structure is clad in the same special hi-tech cushion material used by the Eden Project in Cornwall and the Magna Airship in Rotherham.

Further development planned at the university includes the complete refurbishment and re-cladding of the Richmond building and a new gateway entrance to the site on Great Horton Road. Plans have also been mooted for the construction of the largest sustainable student village in Europe.

World-famous violinist Tasmin Little, who officially opened the atrium as well as performing at the anniversary celebration, said she was a big fan of Bradford.

She said: "I have known Bradford for years because my father was born here. I really feel Bradford is my second home and one I am proud of."

Mrs Little said she had been impressed by the acoustics.

"What a wonderful space - to think last time I came I parked my car here! It's also got fantastic acoustics. I have known some concert halls which have not got acoustics as good."

Lord Mayor of Bradford, Councillor Choudhary Rangzeb, and the Lady Mayoress, his wife Zaheda Parveen Rangzeb, were guests of honour at the event.

Coun Rangzeb said he believed the university played a vital role in supporting the city's economy.

"I think the university is playing a vital part in the economic regeneration of the city.

"The students bring a wealth of knowledge and money to the city.

"Bradford is privileged to have the university and I wish it every success in the future."

Bradford Chamber president Richard Wightman said: "I know from my own personal experience that the university has a long tradition of graduate placements which have been extremely valuable to many Bradford firms.

"The spin-offs which have been generated by the university have been numerous."

Steve Barker, 56, began working in the university's engineering, design and technology department in July 1966.

He said: "It is completely different from 1966. We have gone from slide rules to computers, and university scarves to baseball caps."

Unfortunately imageshack is being a bastard at the moment and won't let me load up any photo's.

Here's a link though:

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/photogalleries/photogalleriessocialevents/photogalleriessocialeventsuni/index.var.0.0.0.php?s=y

and a link to the permanent webcam, it's impressively illuminated at night:

http://www.inf.brad.ac.uk/home/webcams.php

I'll try and take some decent photo's of it, as soon as I can get my camera working again, as well as attempt to upload them which is currently impossible. Anyone know any other websites you can use to upload photo's with?

Typhoo25

October 20th, 2006, 10:04 AM

Dan B

October 23rd, 2006, 01:45 AM

Around 1989, Bradford was a much better night out than Leeds. The clubs were of a much better standard and some real good bars as well. Within the space of two years they all closed down, I think this was on the back of the massive club on Manningham Lane opening (cannot remember the name), which foir about 6 months was a fantastic place and then it went down market and let anyone in. Good days for Bradford, the shops were actually ok then also and there seemed to be much more of a buzz around the place. I think the Frog & Toad closing devastated the city and it will never recover from this.

Might that club be Pennington's? The building with the absolutely horrific architecture of cheap purple columns and the like? I believe it is now called the Town and Country Club, it is however much more impressive on the inside judging from the BBC 360 degree view things. How exactly did that end up making all the other clubs close? Was it too large for it's own good?

Where were all these clubs by the way? Are any of the buildings they were in still standing? Just wondering how it used to look, with it now centering on the Queen's Hall. Although having said the nightlife isn't great, it wasn't bad last time I went to Livingstones. Nicely full and everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves as well as there being a lack of trouble. Well it was student night, maybe that's why.

I'll ask again, anyone know of any other sites you can load up pictures with? imageshack is not working.

birkyboy

October 23rd, 2006, 05:52 PM

Daniel, Penningtons is much more impressive inside. Years ago 15years approx. the building was dollar and dimes, then changed to the the Palace (same group as the one in Blackpool), then loads of cash was spent on it and changed its name to Maestros. Was in the hands of the same group as Tall Tress in Yarm I think, then John Pennington of Midland Hotel fame and now the Tramshed Took it over, then Town and Country. Think iwas also a bit of a White Elephant. Massive place must hold upwards of 3000 on two levels but too far out of town.

To answer your other question the buildings which hosted these clubs are mostly still there.

Cloud Nine. Manor Row, Building was half derelict when Cloud Nine was in there, now its Broadgate House Apartments. The door way is still there and the downstairs bar is now occupied by a coffee bar.

Jb's was underneath Cloud Nine.

Just up the road Corner of Manor Row and Upper Piccadilly was Vips. Old Police Stn now being or shortly to be turned into flats.

Berlins still on Manor Row on Three levels, was a lap dancing place last time I looked, now closed and up for sale.

5th Ave, the boilerhouse now entrance to the lift/stairs to Forster sq Stn

Blue Lace, demolished for the Broadway Scheme was opposite the T&A Building on three floors.

Ely Mcflys, Door way still there PeaceHall Yard. Think its used as storage for Superdrug.

Bradford nightscene moved to the so called West End about 5/7 years ago. To large units owned by the multi nationals.

I would think on the whole Bradford is probably better now then then the quality of customers has somewhat dropped but I guess that goes for most places.

But its wrong to compare with Leeds years ago it was better but so was nearly every where else.

bantam

October 26th, 2006, 08:29 PM

Dan B

October 27th, 2006, 12:16 AM

Now then boys and girls. I've been on this site for a while now but mainly restricted my posting to Nottingham threads as that's where I now live, but I've been getting quite interested by all this talk of Bradford's redevelopment. My brothers and other relatives still live there and I go up for City matches quite a bit, so I come up regularly.

I know a lot of people on here think it's an outrage that they're demolishing the Odeon, but I for one don't see much architectural merit in it. It's very bland and I probably wouldn't even notice it if it weren't derelict. I know Bradford's council have made many balls ups in the past concerning its historic buildings and I love good quality old buildings (we may never see any more buildings of true quality ever again the way things are going), but I really don't think it's anything special and I really don't mind it being demolished (a bit controversial I know). However, I do object to them putting up more bland rubbish to replace it. That's a prime spot in the city centre and deserves a building of real quality that could put Bradford on the map. It's a real missed opportunity I think by the looks of it.

As for Alsop's lake/general craziness I think it's ridiculous - the city centre needs to be carefully rebuilt with buildings that are sympathetic to it's grand old ones. Also having a lake in the middle of the city centre basically says to me "we can't attract any companies or residents to city centre so we thought we'd just fill it with water". Not a good impression for outsiders I don't think. Does anyone know if the council are still seriously considering this? I saw a promotional video made by the council for Bradford on youtube and it had all Alsop's designs in it.

I can't say I agree with you, the Odeon is of quite an impressive build, it is just at the moment in worse for wares. The red brick is perhaps not the most impressive possible, although this comes very much with the Art Deco style. As for other parts, yes the concrete on the ground floor is rather tacky and looks a disgrace, but this can be completely changed, the orange columns are also nasty, but all of this is subject to change if they ever really bothered. As for the white stone, this is where the quality really shines through, and it is almost immaculate, though is blanked out by all the weeds the council has let grow there. There is also intricate detail in greek patterning along the sides, as well as the two green domes and generally the towers looking very impressive and imposing, not to metion how well they go along side The Alhambra. The building merely needs extensive restoration work, as it's full potential is not being realised, not just in architecture, but in usage. It's possibility to hold over 3,000 people inside makes it an excellent choice for use as a concert hall. It once played host to The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and Buddy Holly. Infact the Beatles started several of their tours here and John Lenon signed one of the walls in the backstage area. Surely a piece of rock history. In terms of concert halls neither Bradford or Leeds have one of this size. There is talk of an arena in Leeds, but not the mid-size venue. Having said that though, one of plans seemed to be to also include that size venue in the complex as well. Rather than centralising it, they should offer it up to the surrounding area. Let Leeds have the arena, but let Bradford have the mid-size concert hall, surely one of the few things you could use to attract people over from Leeds for. What's really missing in this whole regeneration scheme is culture. Music is a part of that, and for such a 'West End' they need something in the way of this, not Offices, Apartments, a Hotel and a few cafe/restaurant thingies. Unless of course they count culture as being desperate to become some fake-middle-class stereotype phoney pastiche.

By the way you should back travel through this thread, I posted some photo's of how the insides used to look, and could look again.

As for your other inquisitions, the Lake is to realistically become a pool, and one that is drainable. It will be a third of the size of the original design and about 4 smallish developments of offices and one apartment will come to one side of it. I really disagree with the idea of putting new developments here. It completely ruins the idea of a central park with plenty of space, it is best to leave this place open plan, as a true park. If they really have to build here, they should keep it at 1 storey bar developments, but ideally nothing at all. More public space and greenery to make a true park in the centre. The pool has also been hinted as being drainable for as well as cleaning, certain performances, not sure how this'd quite work and how shallow it'd be exactly, but we'll have to wait for more detailed proposals till we see that.

The Alsop video is pretty out of date by now. You can be assured that his wacky arcitecture will not hit the city (although his idea for the interchange, minus the wierd shapes on the top of buildings, looked quite impressive, with it's curvaceous roof, although it looked rediculously high in the video, but would work if lower down). There has been a new and updated video released, it is more realistic, although still presents some pretty shody architecture. I'm hoping probably not what will go up in the end. The tower on Manchester Road in it's revised reflective glass looked alright though (would still get rid of the yellow strips though).

You can have a look at some of the images from the new video a few pages up that I've posted. To actually view the video go here:

http://www.squintopera.com/item.php?id=68

daveylad2

October 27th, 2006, 12:56 AM

If that Odeon building was in Leeds I'd be well pissed off it was going to be demolished.

bantam

October 29th, 2006, 12:55 PM

the Lake is to realistically become a pool, and one that is drainable. It will be a third of the size of the original design and about 4 smallish developments of offices and one apartment will come to one side of it.

That sounds a lot better. Any renders of the revised plan?

Dan B

October 29th, 2006, 11:12 PM

That sounds a lot better. Any renders of the revised plan?

Yes, I posted some of the images on the page before this (ok two pages before now that it's gone onto the next one, either way page 9). There is also the video I mentioned on my last thread from Squint Opera, the same guys that made the Alsop video:

http://www.squintopera.com/item.php?id=68

Some of the architecture shown on these is still not brilliant, although these are mainly where there hasn't been prior plans of design shown before. Such developments as the Gatehaus and The Channel still look great, whereas the new magistrates courts which we've not seen a render of before this video looks truely horrible. As for others they've made both detriments and improvements. For instance their 'version' of the Broadway Shopping Centre is terrible with a horrific use of concrete, whereas their design of the Manchester Road skyscraper is looking much nicer for it with reflective instead of black glass.

As for the pool, I like the way they've cut it down, I cincerely hope they don't vastly edit Centenary Square as I find there's no need. I like the idea of getting rid of the road that goes past City Hall, but I don't think new buildings should be placed on the site, as I had thought the business park would be along the Manchester Road corridor with a pedestrianised Princes Way. (By the way if you don't know what streets I'm on about, it helps to look at google earth)

Baht'at

October 31st, 2006, 03:33 PM

You folks might be interested in the spoof copies of the T&A that have fallen into my lap

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11761

Particularly the Bucket and Rubble Zones!

Dan B

October 31st, 2006, 11:03 PM

You folks might be interested in the spoof copies of the T&A that have fallen into my lap

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11761

Particularly the Bucket and Rubble Zones!

Nice, I laughed a lot, it's so true.

I do think that Broadway will come after Westfield's reassurances, but the delay is a bit much.

Top marks on the Centenary Square Bucket by the way.

Did you make these?

Baht'at

November 1st, 2006, 09:48 AM

Nice, I laughed a lot, it's so true.

I do think that Broadway will come after Westfield's reassurances, but the delay is a bit much.

Top marks on the Centenary Square Bucket by the way.

Did you make these?

Alas no they are by that great satirical author Anonymous.

The Fugitive

November 2nd, 2006, 01:28 AM

Dan B

November 2nd, 2006, 05:04 PM

I wish they'd get a move on with some of these highly trumpeted plans for the regeneration of parts of the city centre. The fact that the city isn't getting any real tall building schemes of any note should be enough to at least ensure that any schemes that DO pass muster should compensate for the lack of any real impact they will have on the skylne by being at least a bit daring and not so bloody pedestrian as to resemble - ooh - only about 4,000 other town centre projects being readied through the consultation stage.

Parts of the city centre are in geniuine decline at the presnet time.

True, although there are a number of high-rise schemes in the works: The Channel (opposite Forster Square Retail Park), Manchester Road and The Former Gasworks Site on Thornton Road. These schemes all have proposals for buildings in the 20-something storey range.

The problem is that these schemes keep getting scaled back by the council, so they don't come off as being any special or impressive. They seem to have done this to the Channel designs and now seem far less impressive, not just in height but in overall standard of architecture.

There is currently an 11 storey building going up along Leeds Road called The Gatehaus. The design for this is very impressive, especially for its glass 'fin'. It's already at 5 storeys, so hopefully we can see this complete by next year.

I'd outline the parts around Thornton Road as a Regenerate ASAP area, there has been a plan lauched for this area, though I disagree with building use. They should at least extend the club district which is very small at present, and there really is no need for that many apartments. I also disagree heavily on their schemes for the Odeon.

One particular building that needs some attention is the Kirkgate Centre. They need to reclad that place, it really is quite depressing to walk up Darley Street.

Baht'at

November 3rd, 2006, 12:31 PM

Still no outer ringroad and no free city centre bus .... I don't think anyone's heart is in sorting Bradford out anymore.

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11763

di Livio

November 3rd, 2006, 02:40 PM

One particular building that needs some attention is the Kirkgate Centre. They need to reclad that place, it really is quite depressing to walk up Darley Street.

Please. It's an abomination with little relationship to the street it's on.
And to think it replaced what was one of the best buildings in Yorkshire...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bradford/content/images/2006/08/10/architecture_kirkgate_203_203x152.jpg http://www.bradlibs.com/localstudies/vtc/lostbradford/webimages/LB003r.jpg

Dan B

November 3rd, 2006, 05:58 PM

Still no outer ringroad and no free city centre bus .... I don't think anyone's heart is in sorting Bradford out anymore.

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11763

Another problem with the transport around here I found was the trains. I was quite suprised to find that trains run from Leeds Central Station to Huddersfield up until past 1 o'clock. Last Train to Bradford runs at a few minutes past 11! How can they have this level of inequality in their service, and last time I checked Bradford is a bigger place than Huddersfield. The train certainly beats the extortionate taxi fares round here, which if your unlucky enough to pay on your own, are around £18! Something needs to be done about this, for if your seeing a band play (something much more likely in Leeds) it usually finishes in time for a late train like the one to Huddersfield.

Please. It's an abomination with little relationship to the street it's on.
And to think it replaced what was one of the best buildings in Yorkshire...

I fully realise what it replace, so don't 'please' me. My comments bare to the facts of pragmatism. Yes it's a horrendous piece of cack, but you can't just get rid of an entire shopping centre like that. What would you have them do, leave it as it is?

SimCity4

November 4th, 2006, 12:07 AM

The Hudersfield trains are to Manchester Airport so run throught the Night.

di Livio

November 4th, 2006, 02:16 PM

I fully realise what it replace, so don't 'please' me. My comments bare to the facts of pragmatism. Yes it's a horrendous piece of cack, but you can't just get rid of an entire shopping centre like that. What would you have them do, leave it as it is?

The 'please' wasn't sarcastic, you cheeky young scamp. :nono:

Dan B

November 4th, 2006, 09:24 PM

The 'please' wasn't sarcastic, you cheeky young scamp. :nono:

heheh

Dan B

November 8th, 2006, 09:42 PM

We have news. As much as I hate Maud Marshall, it seems they've interested retailers or something. Anyway, the most Important news is in a new date for the project.

'Retailers visit a success'
By Mark Casci
Comment

Maud Marshall
A visit from a national consortium of retailers will "without a doubt" lead to investment opportunities in Bradford's numerous commercial developments, according to Maud Marshall, the head of Bradford Centre Regeneration.

She was speaking after a consortium from the British Council of Shopping Centres visited the city to see what it has to offer.

The delegation of 45 retailers, architects and agents from the BCSC toured the city, looking at retail projects, as well as viewing presentations on what future developments will mean for Bradford.

Among the places visited were the Kirkgate Centre and the site of the ten-acre Broadway development, where work is due to get underway in January.

continued...
Once completed the development will consist of 54,600 sq metres of retail space alongside three residential and office buildings.

The visit was organised ahead of the BCSC's annual conference which takes place today in Manchester where the consortium's findings will be one of the topics of discussion.

Mrs Marshall said: "This was an excellent opportunity for Bradford to showcase its emerging retail offer - primarily through Broadway and recently refurbished Kirkgate shopping centre and also through further development.

"Without a doubt this will mean increased investment opportunities. There were some really big players here and the feedback has been very positive. The visit will also bolster links with leading retailers and strengthen Bradford's position in the process."

Those sentiments were echoed by Tony Reeves, chief executive of Bradford Council, who said: "More and more people are beginning to see what Bradford has to offer and this event should help generate business opportunities for the future."

Peter Miller, director of development, design and construction at Westfield, the company behind the multi-million pound Broadway development, was among those who attended the event.

He said: "There were plenty people who came here to Bradford for the first time and I think everyone was pleasantly surprised with the way the city looks and what opportunities exist here.

"What is important now is that we build on that."

So January, just a further two month wait, not too bad. I think people were perhaps being a bit too quick to judge on here, I think most projects will go through a period of inactivity before finally getting moving. My biggest concern though is the architecture which seems to get worse as it goes along.

listerpark

November 9th, 2006, 03:45 AM

Baht'at

November 9th, 2006, 07:34 AM

We have news. As much as I hate Maud Marshall, it seems they've interested retailers or something. Anyway, the most Important news is in a new date for the project.

So January, just a further two month wait, not too bad. I think people were perhaps being a bit too quick to judge on here, I think most projects will go through a period of inactivity before finally getting moving. My biggest concern though is the architecture which seems to get worse as it goes along.

Methinks Maud the Borg speak with forked tongue. Given that Westfield say that White City and Derby are more important than Bradford there certainly won't be any work other than shifting the rubble next year.

Given that she speaks of the "recently refurbished" Kirkgate centre I think we can safely conclude that she walks round with her eyes shut ..... it still looks hideous to me.

Actually now I look again it was the Toothless and Gutless that said Janurary so I shouldn't blame the awful Scot.

LS19

November 9th, 2006, 10:34 AM

Baht'at

November 9th, 2006, 12:10 PM

What Bradford needs is what they should have done over 100 year ago. Connect the 2 railway stations and operate through trains. The existing New Pudsey line can then be converted to a light rail system. Also reduces the need for crews to change ends at Interhcnage.

This gem always puzzles me when it is advocated as away of improving the use of Bradford, logically the only thing this would do would allow those people not wanting to get off in Bradford stay on the train.

Sure it would be nice in the fullness of time but frankly it wouldn't increase the number of people using Bradford and it might even result in a reduction in the frequency of services as the duplications on the Leeds route are eliminated.

As for light rail services I doubt they can be funded given that the Leeds scheme has been canned by the government.

Bradford doesn't even merit a free city centre bus from Metro even though Leeds and Huddersfield have both been given one.

Dan B

November 10th, 2006, 07:12 AM

I think anything has to be an improvement on the facilities that are in Central Bradford at the moment. Although I do like the variety of independent retailers in town, I think it's important to have more big names here too.

Speaking of architecture I do hope though that once the Broadway development has arrived that the huge stretch of land that is the HIDEOUS Forster Square retail park can be recycled into something more pleasant. It has to be the most depressing strip of corrugated iron and imitation stone ever thrown together - it takes about 15 minutes to walk from one side to the other, having to dodge cars, pushchairs, and the railway bridge/Hamm Strasse is not my idea of retail therapy. I mean what WERE they thinking when they allowed that development?

Rant over!

Seconded, it's not the worst retail park I've ever seen (they do tend by definition to be nothing special), but still they shouldn't be making stuff as uninspired as that anymore, I mean those types of stores can surely be housed in more aesthetically strong buildings than that. Poor mock stone is something I definately despise, although better examples can be found nearby there at an office down the road near the Bradford Desert (that being Broadway).

As for plans for this site, there was a few from a group called Bradford Waterways, involved with the reinstatement of the Canal.

http://www.bradfordwaterways.co.uk/
(Although I can't stand this site for it's really annoying banner that repeats all the time...)

Anyway, their idea was to involve the space of the retail park as part of a sort of semi-water based retail/commercial/residential sort of development, as you can see below:

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/9683/bradfordcanalen6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/998/fgallery31bp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Not sure how this'd make up for the number of stores there though, perhaps with less emphasis on water as here they seem to have several lakes, just one will surfice in the neighbouring Channel Development. I would like to see further development along this coridoor, I guess depending on how much active industry there is further along, either way a site this grotty (including the channel site) should never be this close to the city centre.

I think the T&A prove themselves to be spineless again in their comment on it:

Forster Square Retail Park.

Its critics fear that this popular development at the end of Canal Road - which ten years ago was a wasteland after a huge shopping-centre plan fell through - has taken trade away from the more traditional shops in the city centre and point out that it's nothing more than a line-up of big tin sheds of the sort that can now be seen in any town and city. However, major retailers are more than happy to occupy space there and the shoppers flock to it.

That may be true, but they don't bother refuting any of the claims of its poor design, cause they know it's right. Can't they be a bit more critical? The only dissenting voice there is Mike Priestley, but aside from that, nowt.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/regeneration/rebirth/rebirthspecial/display.var.721836.0.bradford_a_work_in_progress.php

Methinks Maud the Borg speak with forked tongue. Given that Westfield say that White City and Derby are more important than Bradford there certainly won't be any work other than shifting the rubble next year.

Given that she speaks of the "recently refurbished" Kirkgate centre I think we can safely conclude that she walks round with her eyes shut ..... it still looks hideous to me.

Actually now I look again it was the Toothless and Gutless that said Janurary so I shouldn't blame the awful Scot.

I think she was refering to the interior when see said about the refurbishment, it'd be nice to see something on the outside too! As for Westfield, I believe they said they were still 100% dedicated to the project as they said here to refute the claims of abandoning it:

Broadway developers say: 'We're totally committed'
By Jo Winrow

Exclusive new artists' impressions, above and below, of how Bradford's new Broadway shopping centre will look after its completion
The developer behind Bradford's £300 million Broadway shopping scheme has given an unequivocal guarantee that the centre will go ahead.

"We are not walking away from Bradford. We have spent £50 million already and the scheme is definitely going ahead. We are totally committed to it," said Westfield's director of corporate affairs Simon Holberton.

Mr Holberton admitted that the early demolition of buildings had perhaps "raised expectations" but went on to say: "We are not walking away from it. We have just got to do it the right way. These things take time.

"The scheme is attracting interest from very significant retailers and we are in discussion with them and others about taking large spaces.

"We are proceeding with it as expeditiously and carefully as we can and it's on course."

Mr Holberton would not be drawn on a start date for construction or when the massive shopping centre would be opening its doors to shoppers as he said it would be against company policy.

However, he did say: "When the centre opens it's going to be full of retailers who are going to really excite the people of Bradford. We don't want to open something that's just half empty. We are working very hard to ensure that when it opens it's going to have a full complement of retailers. We want to do all that preparation ahead of time."

His reassurances follow criticisms in some quarters about the pace of the development.

Bradford councillor David Ward has said: "To us it's a tragedy that this development has slowed down. In fact it has ground to a halt."

Coun Ward (Lib Dem, Idle and Thackley) has been calling for answers as to why major construction work has not yet started. He previously told the Telegraph & Argus he feared Westfield was struggling to find tenants for the Broadway shopping centre.

Talks have been taking place between Bradford Council planners and Westfield - the world's largest retail operator - for a number of months concerning small changes to the plans. They are currently in the process of checking that pre-construction planning conditions are complied with.

The complex will include 100 shops, two department stores, 171 apartments and a large car park, with retail giants Debenhams and BHS among the main tenants.

The T&A has previously reported the Council's regeneration chief Coun Andrew Mallinson being confident Westfield would start construction work in the new year. Last month he said building work had yet to start because the Australian company was still signing up retailers.

Westfield acquired the site in December 2004, when it took over the parent company of Stannifer, the firm which had been spearheading the scheme.

It began dismantling and demolishing the empty buildings at the end of last year. But there has been an apparent lack of activity in the past few months leading to speculation about its future.

They are a Multi-national Company so I'm sure they handle several projects simultaneously. As for Derby and White City, aren't these already on the go? Shouldn't it therefore mean a spread of resources would resolve itself by the end of the completion of the Derby one, I'd say they can handle a bit of overlap.

As for what work exactly, it's anyone's guess, but couldn't they have got all the rubble shifted over these past four months in time for the project start?

The T&A might be completely spineless, but I don't think they just make up complete lies. Given their allegiances they probably have sources in higher places (i.e. Westfield), I wouldn't disbelieve a January start date.

This gem always puzzles me when it is advocated as away of improving the use of Bradford, logically the only thing this would do would allow those people not wanting to get off in Bradford stay on the train.

Sure it would be nice in the fullness of time but frankly it wouldn't increase the number of people using Bradford and it might even result in a reduction in the frequency of services as the duplications on the Leeds route are eliminated.

As for light rail services I doubt they can be funded given that the Leeds scheme has been canned by the government.

Bradford doesn't even merit a free city centre bus from Metro even though Leeds and Huddersfield have both been given one.

Agreed. I think it makes sense to allow people to have a look at the place in between journeys, although if it's people in a hurry, they should try and operate a metro tram/bus type thing to seque between the two. As for the free city centre bus, why is Bradford always so behind on these things? Is it cost or just general incompetency within the council (or maybe both conveniently, given the councillors salaries).

Baht'at

November 12th, 2006, 07:46 PM

They are a Multi-national Company so I'm sure they handle several projects simultaneously. As for Derby and White City, aren't these already on the go? Shouldn't it therefore mean a spread of resources would resolve itself by the end of the completion of the Derby one, I'd say they can handle a bit of overlap.I think you are seriously over-estimating their resources (remember Multiplex?) there was serious doubt as to whether they would be able to cope with White City and I will wager that they can't and Broadway won't see any action in 2007.

I don't think the T&A are lying as such merely giving life to early optimistic predictions long after their sell-by date.

Anyway given Westfield's reputation for dirty tactics to ensure their centres are the only game in town once built we might be better off without it.

Dan B

November 15th, 2006, 01:39 AM

I think you are seriously over-estimating their resources (remember Multiplex?) there was serious doubt as to whether they would be able to cope with White City and I will wager that they can't and Broadway won't see any action in 2007.

I don't think the T&A are lying as such merely giving life to early optimistic predictions long after their sell-by date.

Anyway given Westfield's reputation for dirty tactics to ensure their centres are the only game in town once built we might be better off without it.

What happened with Multiplex (that being the company they were merging with right?) did it fall through?

I really don't know enough about the company, I was just assuming they'd have the capabilities.

As for the T&A, it could be quite possible, but it's hard to view it as an early prediction, after all, weren't they supposed to make way in 2005 in time for it to be open in 2007? Lost that date by a long shot. If they hold it back any further, people are going to be getting seriously pissed off here.

You have a point about Westfield, I did read their entry in Wikipedia and it did detail your typical Multi-National Corporation scandals and crime. There not exactly the best guys you want around, trouble is, pretty much all MNC's are like this, who can forget Coca Cola killing off traid unionists in South America and Nescafe producing a brand of addictive milk for babies in Africa. They are as a definition utter shits. My point being there's often no one else to turn to, especially in Bradford's case, which suffers from an image problem it's trying to overcome, not least helped by the media.

I'm thinking maybe the UK has more laws in force to stop this kind of market domination happening, we're probably nowhere near America in the sheer 'Free-ness' of the Free Market, i.e. the wrath of Wal Mart.

Perhaps though, with the additional retail space it can attract people back to Bradford to do their shopping here rather than in Leeds. One big thing the new development will offer are department stores, something Bradford either has none of or is seriously low in provision. If it can act as a catalyst then maybe there is some hope for Bradford.

JOliver

November 15th, 2006, 02:15 AM

Dan B

November 15th, 2006, 03:30 AM

With centres like this it's hard to expect high quality architecture from Westfield I am afraid.

Westfield shopping centre at Miranda, Sydney, Australia

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f6/Mirandawestfield.JPG/794px-Mirandawestfield.JPG

Bleurgh! That makes me want to run a mile, it's worse than the Kirkgate Centre, cheapest thing I've ever seen.

While Bradford Broadway won't be as bad as this, it does still seem to have cheapened:

This:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7479/broadway3cm1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As apposed to this:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/9898/bradfordbroadwayoutsideib0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

While there's many other renders/sketches posted on this thread (you'll have to back tread up the pages for those) this offers up a good comparison. You can see how the cohesive and respectful (to local materials) design here have been changed to something of substandard. For a start they changed the mainly glass and sandstone build to a white and brown building rather randomly. I don't see the bridge anymore. The building to the far left in the background, while sandstone looks a bit cheap, as for the one to the far right, it's hard to make out really, but perhaps better than some other previous designs. As for the most prominent Debenhams building, they've also cheapened the effect there. The rectangle with the coloured shapes is pure rubbish next to the more subtle shaped glass effect in the first sketch, which could've been lit up at night or something for an additional effect. As for the green column, it looks friggin' clad with cheap green panels. It needs to be built all out of the same material in a seemless column or something. They better not put up the Westfield signs, if they do we'd need petitions to take 'em down. Oh yeah one other thing I miss is the cylinder build in the background looming up over the whole thing. They've ruined a potentially well made project, it's by Benoy, the same architects who did the Bullring in Birmingham. Something tells me Westfield told them to scale it down, or the council...bastards...

JOliver

November 15th, 2006, 10:45 AM

^^ I am afraid I agree with you that this left part behind Debenhams now look like cheap student accomodation, or the very same blocks that were demolished to get way for this development. Do we need another Kirkgate in Bradford?

This guy running along dual carriageway really says it all about attention to detail in this project.

Baht'at

November 17th, 2006, 01:35 PM

The Toothless and Gutless has "exclusive" coverage to the plans for "the bucket zone"

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11773

Good news is that they plan to knock down the NCP car park, bad news is we already know what happens when they knock something down in Bradford - they don't build for the next 20 years or so.

The Longford

November 21st, 2006, 08:31 PM

Cant say ive ever wandered over to the Leeds forum but hey ho! :wave:

Couldnt find a Bradford Skyline Pictures thread so thought i'd bung this in here.
Was in Bradford on Saturday so took some pics. Here is just one.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f85/garybaldy/bradford-1.jpg

di Livio

November 21st, 2006, 08:46 PM

Guh?
From an independent article about girls aloud.

In cherry-picking a redhead from Runcorn, two blondes from Ascot and Derry, and two similarly pretty brunettes from Newcastle and Bradford, Popstars' creators were mindful of the "catch-all" template that proved so fruitful for the Spice Girls.

Today, I meet Cheryl Cole (née Tweedy) and bandmate Walsh at Highgate Studios in north London. Cole - pink tracksuit, hotel-issue slippers, occasional use of the "F" word - is the most vocal, while Walsh - mustard Sixties-style coat, black jeans, homely Lancashire accent - comes on like a younger, shyer Melanie Sykes...

The cameo came about when the girls stumbled across the Gallagher brothers while working at the same studio, Cole's less forward band mates goading her to make the introductions. "Noel went, 'Our kid! Come on out - it's Girls Aloud!'" laughs Walsh. "We had our photo taken with them - it meant a lot to me coming from their neck of the woods."

Dan B

November 22nd, 2006, 02:25 AM

This guy running along dual carriageway really says it all about attention to detail in this project.

I believe he's on a bike, as for the dual carriageway, last time I checked, this wasn't one... I believe that's the fault on attention to detail, traffic doesn't tend to be too bad on Hall Ings at the moment (at this point anyway), so really don't see the need.

Can’t say I’ve ever wandered over to the Leeds forum but hey ho!

Couldn’t find a Bradford Skyline Pictures thread so thought I'd bung this in here.
Was in Bradford on Saturday so took some pics. Here is just one.

Nice one Mr. Longford, captures the Bradford Skyline well (not the easiest ever due to hills) and I think you’ve caught pretty much every Landmark you could've caught with this view. How did you capture it by the way? It looks like a wide-angle shot that I first thought was some photo's put together, but it's all the same. Either way, it'd make for a nice banner. As for some of the landmarks on this photo, they will soon be gone or transformed, largely due to this:

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/3238/bradfordbowlndf2er1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/340/bradfordbowlndf3qs6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7492/bradfordbowlndf4dv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5271/lakedesignpx4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/8665/bradfordbowlndf1eq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
(If your wondering what red/pink means, it's improve access and movement or transport)

I went down to City Hall today and had a look at the exhibition of the Bowl Neighbourhood Development Framework (NDF). I scanned these images from one of the booklets they were handing out (seems the council can't be arsed to put the whole document on their website). After a while I got chatting to the guy that was attending the thing. I asked him many a question and shared some ideas I'd had. The guy was generally quite neutral though, so there wasn't so much debate, just seemed to say that criticisms were welcome and that the designs were not for definite and could be altered. He said a lot more, but I can't be bothered to go into all that.

As it is, the plan is based around a 15cm deep pool (not much I know) with a few fountains scattered around (I personally would like a nice big one in the middle). The idea is to make it safer (I could imagine a few idiots/children drowning themselves), cleaner (capable of being drained, cleaned and refilled every night) and provide for a greater multitude of functions i.e. Ice Rink in winter, and outside venue for events (when drained), hopefully for music, like Leed's Millennium Square. The lake would've been nice in theory, but it's just not practical.

After that comes the immediate surrounding business 'forest' (I don't think they liked the term 'business park'), which will be mainly offices, but with bars and restaurants and the like on the ground floors. They've gone for a sort of nature feel around the developments, and although I'd personally prefer this to just be simply park space, I guess it's an improvement nonetheless. A few problems I have though are with just how much they seem to be reworking centenary square. The grass spots seem to be removed in favour of parallel lines running right across the square. What exactly will become of the Bradford Fire memorial? If you wanted a sure fire way to annoy some Bradfordians that'd be it. My other concern would be alteration of Norfolk gardens, I don't mind the roads going, but the current grassy area gave people places to sit, now they seem to want to fill it with water and a bar development (which could go in place of the residential development on the other end to be honest).

Anyway, after that comes a rather half hearted attempt to ratify the problems of the Interchange. They're getting rid of the NCP which I can only applaud them for, as well as the Office next door, unfortunately there's no way of getting rid of old Mr. Hilton, but I'll be glad to see the back of the current bridge and tunnel entranceway that smells of piss. It seems that they're also building some offices along Bridge Street in conjunction with the interchange, but don't know much else about them. One thing they're not doing though is tackling the central problem here, the interchange itself. It needs a major reworking to bring it all together, doubt they'll do anything though.

Across the road from there is the new Magistrates courts development, which will probably incorporate some mixed use element into it as well, such as law based business and the like, probably some more bar/cafe/restaurant things as well knowing the council. A bit further up from here, opposite Little Germany, is a reworking of some underused office site and the like, into a new urban village, although I'm personally a bit sick of so much residential development, the guy at the display said it would be quite open to the public with some more parkland and community space.

One of my biggest worries of the whole thing though, is what exactly they're doing to the NMPFT. It seems to be joined onto with this Lightwave project. The good point is that it provides access across Princes Way via a connecting footpath, the bad point is that is will either replace or completely obstruct the view of the curved glass frontage of the museum. A further point is the apparent removal of the Pictureville Cinema (the only cinerama open to the public in the world apparently) and the Cafeteria. All seemingly to make it more streamlined, and due to the gross negligence of some of these planners. As for the rest, the business forest continues across the other side of Princes Way and Hall Ings, on both sides of Manchester Road. The Library has gone (though having looked more closely at the building, it is of a considerably higher quality then some of the replacement suggestions). The other things this tends to replace is the car park to the back and about one other office. On the other side of Manchester Road, a real eye sore is gone: Jacob's Well. This will be replaced by two twin structures apparently, occupying the former car park on the site as well. I imagine they all have underground one's (car parks) on site, as well as a new Multi-storey behind the NMPFT, which should also compensate for the removal of the NCP car park on Hall Ings.

That would pretty much sum it up, except for their lack of firm decision making in dealing with the inner ring road. The guy I was talking to, said they eventually would in the future, but that will be decades forward. They just need to begin a tunnel at the end of Manchester Road, have it run under the building site of the lake area so it curves around to meet with Thornton Road and have it resurface somewhere along there. This I think is the only solution to the problem with the inner ring road at this point. As for the busses, I imagine a semi-pedestrianised area with a bus loop going around would work quite well.

Oh yeah, and one last final, final point, on the whole the architecture displayed here (with the exception of the rather interesting 'U' shaped building) is all pretty pants. I'm rest assured though that this was Alsop's work, and as the guy told me, all projects will be undertaken after design competition's for them, this is just a guideline.

Aghh, bloody hell, remind me not to do that again, that went on far longer than it should've done. Oh well, guess I got my thoughts out about this one. I'd Like to hear your own thoughts. Anyone?

Guh?
From an independent article about girls aloud.

Quote:
In cherry-picking a redhead from Runcorn, two blondes from Ascot and Derry, and two similarly pretty brunettes from Newcastle and Bradford, Popstars' creators were mindful of the "catch-all" template that proved so fruitful for the Spice Girls.

Today, I meet Cheryl Cole (née Tweedy) and bandmate Walsh at Highgate Studios in north London. Cole - pink tracksuit, hotel-issue slippers, occasional use of the "F" word - is the most vocal, while Walsh - mustard Sixties-style coat, black jeans, homely Lancashire accent - comes on like a younger, shyer Melanie Sykes...

The cameo came about when the girls stumbled across the Gallagher brothers while working at the same studio, Cole's less forward band mates goading her to make the introductions. "Noel went, 'Our kid! Come on out - it's Girls Aloud!'" laughs Walsh. "We had our photo taken with them - it meant a lot to me coming from their neck of the woods."

Welcome to the Twilight Zone...

Baht'at

November 22nd, 2006, 01:22 PM

listerpark

November 30th, 2006, 01:20 AM

Over the last few days I've noticed at least a few small signs of life at the Broadway site. A little blue JCB and a workman seem to be doing SOMETHING! Although I can't see any appreciable difference to be honest.

http://xs409.xs.to/xs409/06483/jcb.jpg

Maybe when you see how tiny it is compared with the site it's easier to understand why!

http://xs409.xs.to/xs409/06484/nfc.jpg

On a different subject, nothing has happened to the highpoint building yet. The developers website still states that work will begin in Spring 2006.

http://www.pulselifesupport.co.uk/highpoint.html

This has clearly never happened, although I'm perhaps one of the few people who like the building the way it is. I love its brutality! It's a shame that the building is just lying empty (like so many others).

I hope by this time next year all this doubt and cynicism about the future of the city has started to fade. Having lived in Leeds all my life before moving to Bradford 18 months ago, I remember that 10 years ago people said exactly the same things about Leeds' regeneration as they of Bradfords now. I see no reason why Bradford shouldn't enjoy a similar success. Eventually.

Rob

November 30th, 2006, 08:56 PM

Having lived in Leeds all my life before moving to Bradford 18 months ago,

That's a little unusual, many people tend to head in the opposite direction. After a few years in Bradford I had a strong desire to move to Leeds (that was ten years ago now, and i've not looked back since).

ChrisV

December 1st, 2006, 12:29 AM

the city centre needs to be carefully rebuilt with buildings that are sympathetic to it's grand old ones. Also having a lake in the middle of the city centre basically says to me "we can't attract any companies or residents to city centre so we thought we'd just fill it with water".

A voice of sanity at last on this thread. Apart from its distinctive absence of a major river or other large body of water, stagnant or otherwise, Bradford has - or had - the distinction of being the only major English city built mainly of stone (not a lot of people seem to know that). All this concrete and plate glass and acreage of gaudy colours will just turn it into Anytown Anywhere, even more than the disastrous infestation of 'pension fund concrete' tat did in the grotty 1960s.

Bradford once had the only really decent main railway station in the whole of the West Riding, the now vanished Exchange terminus. We may never see its like again, but at least the opportunity should be taken to link the city's two dead end branchlines to form a through route (scheme shelved 90 years ago) AND provide a high quality central station on it. With electrification of the direct line to Leeds the Aire Valley commuter trains could then serve both cities rather than the current split service, and potentially put Bradford on a north-south main line. Nothing new about this idea, but its complete absence from current plans shows the poverty of imagination or even plain commonsense.

Oh, and of course for local transport bring back clean quiet smooth-running trolleybuses (particularly suitable for such a hilly city), but the modern systems being increasingly introduced in Europe and worldwide, not the even then outdated British system which Bradford soldiered on with as the last UK operator till defeated by the lack of spare parts in the early 1970s.

Baht'at

December 1st, 2006, 05:59 AM

as well as an updated site (all the way from v4.5 to v5.0 beta2!) I have two items of relevance ....

a rather pessimistic view from the times http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/12308

and a view of the Highpoint building
http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11799

di Livio

December 1st, 2006, 03:04 PM

Bradford has - or had - the distinction of being the only major English city built mainly of stone (not a lot of people seem to know that).

Erm, there is Newcastle

http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/~lucia/big_photos/Newcastle/GreyStreet0_070505.jpg

ChrisV

December 1st, 2006, 10:38 PM

"Erm, there is Newcastle"
- erm, no there isn't. There are a few stone buildings and even streets like the one in your picture in the posher part of the city centre, but Newcastle, whether upon Tyne or under Lyme, is predominantly brick, or was before the concrete age and Dan Smith.

For example, last time I was in beautiful downtown Benwell on a wet Saturday afternoon, with such shops as were not boarded up closing mid-afternoon already, there wasn't much stone building to be seen, but plenty of brick ones in varing states of dereliction. That was a few years ago, and by now I guess there may not be much building left at all there.

ChrisV

December 1st, 2006, 10:43 PM

But full marks to Newcastle for managing to keep that lot in your photo. Imagine what would be left of it by now if it had been in Bradford.

Dan B

December 7th, 2006, 04:14 AM

I've got another little picture of the rubble zone:

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11785

I wouldn't personally hold my breath waiting for the bucket zone to go ahead - I think circa 2064 might be the start date.

Projects are 'scheduled' for progression to completion in the space of ten or fifteen years, whether this is likely to stay on course, it's anyone's guess, but the first step should be to get the New Magistrates Courts built, seen as there's nothing stopping them, this should get started as soon as possible, hopefully with a better design than this:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8195/bradfordbowlmagistratesay8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After the current one goes and the new one gets set up (current site of a makeshift car park, nothing exactly physically stopping its construction), then progress can be made with the City Park.

From then on it is 'expected' to continue on from there to these new developments:

New Interchange Entrance:

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/1271/bradfordbowlinterchangebk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Whatever you say about it, it does promise a much better introduction to the Trainstation, my worry though is that they're only interested in creating the introduction, not any changes to the actual station.

Business Park:

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8889/bradfordbowlbusinessparuv2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Architecture aside, my main worry here is the way it seems to do away with the Pictureville Cinema, quoted as the best cinema in Britain by one commentator, and of course the only Cinerama one, not something you want doing away with.

But here's how it all fits in to the bigger picture anyway:

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9725/bradfordbowloverview2rj7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4273/bradfordbowloverviewdj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The idea of the building stretching out over Princes Way from the Museum now makes more sense, as it won't now spoil the curved glass frontage. Also it might be of interest to hear that the Museum's changed its name from the National Museum of Photography, Film and Television (an obviously long winded and limiting name) to the National Media Museum, where they plan to extend into Radio and the Internet and further modern media like gaming and interactive technologies. It also comes with a new logo:

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7928/nationalmediamuseumig0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I got some of these images and renders off the Bowl Neighbourhood Development Framework (NDF), which they've now decided to put online. You can view it here:

http://www.bradford.gov.uk/environment/land_and_premises/planning/the_bowl_ndf.htm

The NDF also shared some pictures of on going developments I commented on a while ago:

As for other news, it seems recladding/painting work is going on around the Manchester Road area. An office is being repainted, and actually looks not half bad, in white's and greys, instead of the concrete building it is, it now looks sort of futuristic, though it isn't all done yet. Further recladding work is going on one of the 'Y' shaped flats near the eco-friendly one's. It seems the one's around here will get a full facelift, I'm hoping either in a wood-ish organic style or similar to the yellowish eco-friendly one's. If this is carried out on all of them, Bradford will actually be quite pioneering in ammending some of the design mistakes on social housing from the 60's and 70's. I'm also hoping the 3 quite tall one's near the back of the Museum will be in for a reclad.

The Empress Apartments site is also coming along and seems to have reached it's full height, not quite as impressive as I'd have hoped, but I spose it stands out enough. As for it's design I'm still rather confuzzled.

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5431/buildingworkwj5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I think this pretty much illustrates what I was going on about here. The Empress Apartments have come on quite a bit, and the stone cladding is now visible, which looks pretty similar to the Thomas Cook office building next door, not the best potential, but again not the worst.

We probably shouldn't forget that we already are seeing plenty of developments, the Manchester Road flats are particularly notable:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4706/manchesterroadflatsxc4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9914/manchesterroadflats2ri8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4784/manchesterroadflats3aw9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This as well as the Gatehaus development, currently at six storeys (full height) for the accompanying buildings, and at 3 storeys for the 11 storey glass fin section, soon we might even see the stone and glass cladding going on. For now we have these renders:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4619/gatehaus1el3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2849/gatehaus2lt1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'll try and get some new construction photos of this, pretty much in the concrete frame part of construction right now, but I think we should be following the development of this one, made by the same architects as the Channel Urban Village, well atleast as it (The Channel) was supposed to be constructed originally before the bastards at the council decided to scale it down to something mundane looking.

There's also this at the University:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1386/dsci0066et5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I apologise for my lack of camera skills, but here's the new atrium anyway, attached to the newly recladded Richmond Building.

Over the last few days I've noticed at least a few small signs of life at the Broadway site. A little blue JCB and a workman seem to be doing SOMETHING! Although I can't see any appreciable difference to be honest.

http://xs409.xs.to/xs409/06483/jcb.jpg

Maybe when you see how tiny it is compared with the site it's easier to understand why!

http://xs409.xs.to/xs409/06484/nfc.jpg

On a different subject, nothing has happened to the highpoint building yet. The developers website still states that work will begin in Spring 2006.

http://www.pulselifesupport.co.uk/highpoint.html

This has clearly never happened, although I'm perhaps one of the few people who like the building the way it is. I love its brutality! It's a shame that the building is just lying empty (like so many others).

I hope by this time next year all this doubt and cynicism about the future of the city has started to fade. Having lived in Leeds all my life before moving to Bradford 18 months ago, I remember that 10 years ago people said exactly the same things about Leeds' regeneration as they of Bradfords now. I see no reason why Bradford shouldn't enjoy a similar success. Eventually.

It's atleast something I guess, perhaps activity will increase bit by bit in the next few weeks anticipating work beginning to go ahead.

I'm not sure what's happening with the Highpoint building either, it really should've got underway by now. I have a permanent view of it from my window, so if I see any signs of life, I'll let you know.

ChrisV "Erm, there is Newcastle"
- erm, no there isn't. There are a few stone buildings and even streets like the one in your picture in the posher part of the city centre, but Newcastle, whether upon Tyne or under Lyme, is predominantly brick, or was before the concrete age and Dan Smith. But full marks to Newcastle for managing to keep that lot in your photo. Imagine what would be left of it by now if it had been in Bradford.

Very true, I could only really think of Bath as another example of that extent of stone work. A real pity how the 60's ruined so much and left us without many of the fine buildings it used to have. Darley Street used to be a completely different story:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2171/darleystreetim6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A voice of sanity at last on this thread. Apart from its distinctive absence of a major river or other large body of water, stagnant or otherwise, Bradford has - or had - the distinction of being the only major English city built mainly of stone (not a lot of people seem to know that). All this concrete and plate glass and acreage of gaudy colours will just turn it into Anytown Anywhere, even more than the disastrous infestation of 'pension fund concrete' tat did in the grotty 1960s.

Bradford once had the only really decent main railway station in the whole of the West Riding, the now vanished Exchange terminus. We may never see its like again, but at least the opportunity should be taken to link the city's two dead end branchlines to form a through route (scheme shelved 90 years ago) AND provide a high quality central station on it. With electrification of the direct line to Leeds the Aire Valley commuter trains could then serve both cities rather than the current split service, and potentially put Bradford on a north-south main line. Nothing new about this idea, but its complete absence from current plans shows the poverty of imagination or even plain commonsense.

Oh, and of course for local transport bring back clean quiet smooth-running trolleybuses (particularly suitable for such a hilly city), but the modern systems being increasingly introduced in Europe and worldwide, not the even then outdated British system which Bradford soldiered on with as the last UK operator till defeated by the lack of spare parts in the early 1970s.

The lake is no longer a lake and is now a shallow pool a 3rd of the size, making it capable to be drained and cleaned, drained to have performances on, or frozen over in the winter and it will also feature fountains. I can't say it's a bad idea to be honest and follows some of the concepts used next to Sheffield Town Hall with the Peace Gardens and fountains. It by the way, also makes space for a number of office developments with bars, restaurants and pubs on the ground floors. Overall, it gives a good centrepiece to the city, whether or not Bradford has an affinity with water.

I agree fully with your opinion on the architecture, with the except of the 'U' shaped building, Alsop's stuff here is all pretty dire. Luckily this will not be the final result and design competitions will be held.

As for the stations, it is a shame they aren't connected, but given the city and the shape it's currently in, I couldn't see where a new central station could go and where the tracks would go, without piling through half a dozen buildings. If they had any forethought in the 60's, they would've made the interchange out of the old Exchange Station, by still having the reduced number of tracks, but turning the freespace into the bus station. Of course in those days the ironically fascist nature of modernism was in full swing and they destroyed past landmarks regardless.