Is football not that popular in Brazil then?

Oh it is. But just because everyone talks about the teams doesnt mean theyll go watch them.

In Brasil, the games arent aired on TV in the market they are played in (and in the market where the away team is from). Just pay-per-view. However it is on radio.

I remember in May, Globo, the biggest broadcaster decided to air a couple of games. The games were played Wednesday instead of on the weekend, and at 9pm instead of 4 or 6.

The game I watched had a stadium attendence of 250. Of which only 50 had payed for a ticket.

This is a first division game.

Games not on TV get a higher attendence. 10,000 for big teams, 5,000 for less popular teams. 20,000 for rivalry matches.

However, also note that this counts only the main league, not 2nd division and seperate cups. teams are relegated, so fans of a team continue to watch in the 2nd division. Libertadores, Sudamericana and Copa do Brasil are important.

Libertadores games do get sold out. Yesterdays game in Sao Paulo, (Sao Paulo - Chivas Guadalajara) had 66,860 people.

Interesting.

Everyone raves about The Premiership as a 'product', but 33,875 is a bit paltry as an average, really.

So, what will this season be? Since last year, Arsenal have opened the Emirates, a gain of nearly 22,000 seats and United have added 8,000 to the Quadrants. Balance that with the fact that Sunderland (49,000), Birmingham (30,000) and West Brom (28,000) have been replaced by Watford (22,000), Reading (24,000) and Sheffield United (33,000) and the seating gains at United and Arsenal are almost cancelled out. In fact, I calculate that there are only 2,187 more seats this season out of about 750,000 in total.

With similar fill rates to last year, the figure for next season will go up by about 115 to 39,380. Not much, and that very much depends on Arsenal selling out Emirates every game as they did Highbury...

05/06 Capacity ............T. Attend.............Ave. Att.............Fill %

Arsenal............38,419............725,499............38,184............99%
Aston Villa............42,573............648,124............34,112............80%
Birmingham City............30,016............520,448............27,392............91%
Blackburn Rovers............31,367............399,288............21,015............67%
Bolton Wanderers............28,723............480,036............25,265............88%
Charlton Athletic............27,111............497,721............26,196............97%
Chelsea............42,360............796,131............41,902 ............99%
Everton............40,260 ............700,347............36,860 ............92%
Fulham............22,500 ............392,430............20,654 ............92%
Liverpool............45,362 ............840,491............44,236 ............98%
Manchester City............48,000 ............814,269............42,856 ............89%
Manchester United............67,600 ............1,306,528............68,765 ............100%
Middlesbrough............35,100 ............540,799............28,463 ............81%
Newcastle United............52,387............988,609............52,032 ............99%
Portsmouth............20,220............376,951............19,840 ............98%
Sunderland............49,000............644,180............33,904 ............69%
Tottenham Hotspur............36,240............685,399............36,074 ............100%
West Brom. Albion............28,003............482,667............25,404 ............91%
West Ham United............35,647............641,109............33,743 ............95%
Wigan Athletic............25,138............391,587............20,610 ............82%

Total/Average 746,026............12,872,613............33,875............86%
39,265

06/07 Capacity............T. Attend.............Ave. Att............Fill %

Arsenal............60,000 ............1,133,032............59,633 ............99%
Aston Villa............42,573 ............648,124 ............34,112 ............80%
Blackburn Rovers............31,367 ............399,288 ............21,015 ............67%
Bolton Wanderers............28,723 ............480,036 ............25,265 ............88%
Charlton Athletic............27,111 ............497,721 ............26,196 ............97%
Chelsea............42,360 ............796,131 ............41,902 ............99%
Everton............40,260 ............700,347 ............36,860 ............92%
Fulham............22,500 ............392,430 ............20,654 ............92%
Liverpool............45,362 ............840,491 ............44,236 ............98%
Manchester City............48,000 ............814,269 ............42,856............89%
Manchester United............76,000 ............1,444,000............76,000 ............100%
Middlesbrough............35,100 ............540,799 ............28,463 ............81%
Newcastle United............52,387............988,609 ............52,032 ............99%
Portsmouth............20,220............376,951 ............19,840 ............98%
Reading............24,225............377,426 ............19,865 ............82%
Sheffield United............33,000............514,140 ............27,060 ............82%
Tottenham Hotspur............36,240............685,399 ............36,074 ............100%
Watford............22,000............342,760 ............18,040 ............82%
West Ham United............35,647............641,109 ............33,743............95%
Wigan Athletic............25,138............391,587............20,610............82%

Total/Average 748,213............13,004,648............34,223............87%
39,380

Still, it's much better than Serie A or La Primera Liga...

And its much much much more expensive to watch football in England and given that the percentage of seats sold is so high, I actually think the numbers for England are very impressive.

you exagerrate the influence of the relegated teams as sunderland did not have capacity crowds.

Arsenal will surely sell-out but I think the capacity increases may be cancelled out by drops elsewhere, like Blackburn and other small clubs where it has just become too
exepensive

What the figures on that site really shows, is just how much sports-attendance is a phenomenon of the english-speaking world.

Sport attendences should only be judged on percentage. Thats where UK and German fans come to the front. In certain countries you can walk into stadiums for free.

In both countries represented, you must pay huge prices and because of the restricted ticket allocations games which would be a sell-out tend to be 2,000 short to keep in with police and security restrictions.

If you look at percentage attendences for each league the Premiership and Championship are in the high 90's low 70's for each team. Move away to Italy and it drops as low as 30% for some teams.

Although saying that. Englands 2nd tier football is still the 5th most watched league in Europe. That says something.

damn, America does pretty damn well in regards to sports on that list. College football attendance is great---a much more exciting football (and basketball for sure) than the proffesional leagues.

Tottenham Hotspur............36,240............685,399............36,074 ............100%

:)

Come on Tottenham make the ground bigger!

damn, America does pretty damn well in regards to sports on that list. College football attendance is great---a much more exciting football (and basketball for sure) than the proffesional leagues.


with a population of 300 million living in the worlds richest country,i'd bloody well think America should do well on that list
but have a look at the UK,and the Aussies,if you really want to be impressed

with a population of 300 million living in the worlds richets country,i'd bloody well think America should do well on that list
but have a look at the UK,and the Aussies,if you really want to be impressed

But even considering the large population of the US, they still do well on that list.

Its impossible to compare north america, UK and Aus really as its different sports, different prices, different number of games, cost of attending, availability of tickets, capacities etc.

The only clear thing is that there are 3 places so far ahead of the rest, that its almost ridiculous. Strange.

Werder Bremen is to expand their stadium from 43.000 to 53.000 seats.
the stadium will be transformed into a pure football stadium.
The work could begin at the end of the year and the costs will be around 50 million euros (~65million dollars).

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/images/news/bremen_030806_01.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/index.php?template=news&news_id=940

Damn there are 2,419 games being played in the MLB?
Quite amazing.

18,965 as an average attendance for the NFL europe is also not bad I guess.

Its sad to see though that the attendance in Italy has gone down by 14,8 percent compared to the last year.
And I think that the next season might not be much better.

They should have torn down that piece of crap years ago and built a new football stadium in its place. That way they might have hosted a couple of world cup games as well.

Kings Dock Arena

The visitor destination 'complex' comprises a 10,000 capacity Arena; an auditorium with a capacity of 1,350; a multi-purpose hall of 3,600 sq metres; total exhibition capacity of 7,000 sq metres; and 18 additional meeting rooms.



The Arena has the flexibility to accommodate events from rock and pop concerts to children's entertainment, and from ice shows to international sporting events including tennis, boxing and gymnastics. The Convention Centre has been designed to be extremely flexible, capable of accommodating a wide range of meetings of varying size.

very interesting thanks

They should have torn down that piece of crap years ago and built a new football stadium in its place. That way they might have hosted a couple of world cup games as well.

Yeah maybe but keep in mind that they invested quite a lot of money into the stadium in the last decade.
They put in exec boxes and they just redeveloped part of the exterior.
They will nevertheless pull down the stands behind the goals and rebuilt them.

Maracanã Stadium, july 1950, Final of the IV World Cup, Brazil 1 x 2 Uruguay:

Attendance: 199.526

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/4684f035.jpg

is that it

Heres another nice pic of the Koelnarena:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/K%C3%B6ln_deutz_k%C3%B6lnarena.jpg/800px-K%C3%B6ln_deutz_k%C3%B6lnarena.jpg

SAP arena in Mannheim:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9c/Mannheim_SAP-Arena_20050723_100_0481.jpg/800px-Mannheim_SAP-Arena_20050723_100_0481.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/3/39/SAP_Arena.jpg/800px-SAP_Arena.jpg

Tui arena in Hannover:

http://www.mediatips.de/expo/expo_plaza_preussag_arena.jpg
http://data1.blog.de/blog/l/lordkev/img/TUI-Arena.jpg
http://www.hannover-scorpions.com/bilder/arena.jpg

is that it

well to be honest, Brazil only has one good stadium, and the Maracana isn't it

The best Stadium of Brazil:

Kyocera Arena (ex-Arena da Baixada), capacity: 32.000, owner: Clube Atlético Paranaense, Curitiba/PR
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/6773632f.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/d4f0cfe4.jpg

And the 2nd...

Edgar Proença Olimpic Stadium (Mangueirão), capacity:56.600, owner: Pará State, Belém, PA

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/Mangueiro.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/Mangueiro2.jpg

The best Stadium of Brazil:

Kyocera Arena (ex-Arena da Baixada), capacity: 32.000, owner: Clube Atlético Paranaense, Curitiba/PR
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/6773632f.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/d4f0cfe4.jpg


yeah i like that stadium if only it went ythe whole way round.

That list wouldn't be complete without the four largest Lichtenstein stadiums:

Rheinpark-Stadion Vaduz (4,548)

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/liechtenstein/rheinpark_stadion/100.jpg


Rheinwiese Schaan (2,230)

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/liechtenstein/rheinwiese/100.jpg


Sportpark Eschen-Mauren (2,050)

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/liechtenstein/sportpark_eschen_mauren/110.jpg


Leitawis Triesenberg (2,000)

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/liechtenstein/leitenwies/110.jpg

:cheer:

The figures for Australian Rules Football are staggering considering Australia's relatively small population.
if youve seen the game you'll understand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GClrwzgGxAM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSbGYvtgGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_--AC_rhRCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qk2ziEe19I

I'm in love with Do Dragão!!!

Me too!! :drool: The bars on top of the roof look a bit like the Telstra Dome in Melbourne aka "the Phone Dome" (Telstra is an Ozzie telecommunications company)

Biggest in Australia have been posted but I thought i'd post the capacities.

MCG- 100,000 (Melbourne)
Telstra Stadium- 83,000 (Sydney)
Telstra Dome- 56,000 (Melbourne)
Suncorp- 52,000 (Brisbane)


Some of these stadiums are very interesting. I like the first one and New Stadium in Valencia or something like that.

That list wouldn't be complete without the four largest Lichtenstein stadiums:

Rheinpark-Stadion Vaduz (4,548)

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/liechtenstein/rheinpark_stadion/100.jpg


Rheinwiese Schaan (2,230)

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/liechtenstein/rheinwiese/100.jpg


Sportpark Eschen-Mauren (2,050)

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/liechtenstein/sportpark_eschen_mauren/110.jpg


Leitawis Triesenberg (2,000)

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/liechtenstein/leitenwies/110.jpg

:cheer:

at least the country looks like a beautiful place

What's the population of Lichtenstein anyway?

Well, as already stated, listing the 4 best (not necessarily biggest) stadia is harder for the US because it's hard to compare basketball w/ American football w/ baseball; the stadia are just too different. So my Best 4 will try to balance them all. Also, my list takes "best" to mean modern, architecually pleasing, good amenties, etc. Aura, mystique, history, etc. are not taken into account. That list would look very different. In no order, I'd say they are:

Relient Stadium (Houston, football)
Soldier Field (Chicago, football)
Miller Park (Milwaukee, baseball)
Conseco Fieldhouse (Indianapolis, basketball)

What's all this talk about the EPL being so impressive? I'm not saying it isn't, but shouldn't we be talking about Germany if we are talking about impressive attendance figures. According to this the Bundesliga's avg. attendance per game was nearly 7000 more than the Premiership's.

What's the population of Lichtenstein anyway?

Over 33,000!

Wikipedia - Liechtenstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein)

I wanted to start a Top 10 England vs Liechtenstein stadiums thread but there aren't enough stadia in Liechtenstein. I guess I'll do Germany vs England instead. :D

I think its more the football league in general. The Championship and League 1 depite being lower tiers often have impressive attendances.

^^^lol!!! Liechenstein does look pretty with all the trees and mountains. Their stadiums just need a little work...

Camille Chamoun Stadium Beirut, Lebanon

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Jamie_Y/B97-05-004.jpg

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g240/Jamie_Y/beirut_chamoun.jpg


it has hosted the Arab Games in 1997 the Asian cup in 2000 and will be hosting the 2009 Francophone Games

Just one comment on the largest arena can it have a retractable roof? It would still be inside. If so here is Telstra Dome in Melbourne. Capacity is 53,300. Apparently (info from a site I can't remember)the Liverpool Stadium was modeled on Telstra Dome.

Telstra Dome
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4747/telstradomefromcowintreesculptureww5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7549/telstradomesignwf5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/584/telstradomeaerialik3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/764/telstradomeinterioriu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

And also the new stadium to be built in the Olympic Park Precinct. It will have a capacity of around 20,000 and will easily be able to be extended to 25,000. Melbourne can't build a new rectangular stadium with a capacity of over 20,000 till 2010 because of a contract with Telstra Dome. It is expected to be finished in 2008 and cost $100 million Aussie Dollars.

New Stadium
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4177/newstadiuminmelbournecr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7145/snewstadiumif1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/74/snewstadiumroofpatternfm5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8006/snewstadiummodelmj5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/4496/newstadiumpositionqy6.png (http://imageshack.us)

Very Interesting! Love numbers and that was fun to look at. Im going to the Barcelona, Chivas game at the LA Colisieum tomorrow and all 92,500 seats have been sold for some time now. cant wait.

^^^lol!!! Liechenstein does look pretty with all the trees and mountains. Their stadiums just need a little work...

not really, a country with a population of under 40,000 has no need for any big or even decent stadiums.

To put it in perspective, it has the same population as a small insignificant country town in Australia such as Dubbo.

That is why their biggest stadium is of the same standard as my local amatuer clubs.

I know it doesn't need stadiums but they still aren't great. lol. Imagine all of Liechenstein in the Telstra Dome...

53,000 56,000 same thong lol.. Thanx i'll edit.

with a population of 300 million living in the worlds richest country,i'd bloody well think America should do well on that list
but have a look at the UK,and the Aussies,if you really want to be impressed

Richest in the world per capita or in total???

What's all this talk about the EPL being so impressive? I'm not saying it isn't, but shouldn't we be talking about Germany if we are talking about impressive attendance figures. According to this the Bundesliga's avg. attendance per game was nearly 7000 more than the Premiership's.

Its way way way way cheaper to attend football in Germany compared to England, where its getting ridiculous.

Germany have almost double the population but fewer teams in their league.

The % of seats sold in England is still higher than Germany, where capacities are higher than in England because its the only major league in europe that allows standing areas.

The have only just gone past England for the first time ever, connected to the bulk world cup modernisation of venues.

Lower leagues are higher in England

England´s other sports are also attracting far higher crowds than Germany´s other sports.


Whats happening in Germany is great, but interest in footall is much higher in England

4 biggest of 4 small countries

STADE LOUIS II, MONACO 18 523

http://www.asm-fc.com/images/stade/0.jpg

http://www.asm-fc.com/images/stade/1.jpg

http://www.asm-fc.com/images/stade/6.jpg

http://www.asm-fc.com/images/stade/4.jpg

http://www.asm-fc.com/images/stade/5.jpg

http://www.asm-fc.com/images/stade/3.jpg

http://www.asm-fc.com/images/stade/7.jpg

HONG KONG, CHINA HONG KONG STADIUM 40.000

http://mishuna.image.pbase.com/u46/accl/upload/29677520.20040530ACMilanIMG_6041.jpg

http://www.venue.org/galleryphoto/1014601196HK_Stadium600.jpg

ESTÁDIO DE MACAU 15.000

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/asia/macau/macau_stadium.jpg

http://www.macau99.org.mo/photos/dailynews/991221c.jpg

SAN MARINO STADIO OLIMPICO 2.200

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/san_marino/serravalle_olimpico.jpg

So these are not in it yet (I scrolled trouht the whole thread, or did I miss a page)
Here we go
Bilbao (very not sure... but well)
http://i7.tinypic.com/214qdud.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/214qe78.jpg
Murcia
http://i7.tinypic.com/214qeky.jpg
Depor fucking dreams, a shame they did not go through with this!

http://i7.tinypic.com/214qlj9.jpg
http://i7.tinypic.com/214qnb6.jpg

Some more picks of La Coruna, this would have been an alien city landscape or something, very cool, but it didn't stick I guess
http://i6.tinypic.com/23svr09.jpg
http://i1.tinypic.com/23svr5f.jpg

Valencia, I believe a cap. of 70.000
http://i3.tinypic.com/23svrkl.jpg

http://i4.tinypic.com/23svrme.jpg

http://i3.tinypic.com/23svryv.jpg

http://i4.tinypic.com/23svs78.jpg

http://i4.tinypic.com/23svsbc.jpg

http://i3.tinypic.com/23svtop.jpg

http://i6.tinypic.com/23svts0.jpg

http://i6.tinypic.com/23svtyx.jpg

As shown under, this stadium will have the option of atletics and football in one stadium, without beeing to far from the field in case of footballgames

http://i2.tinypic.com/23svu45.jpg

http://i4.tinypic.com/23svucp.jpg

http://i1.tinypic.com/23svuc7.jpg

I think this will be a great stadium, with the caracteristic, futeristic Spanish architecture. (might be a non Spanish designagency, but atleast they know what they like in Spain/Valencia)

Here is Nicaragua:

Estadio Dennis Martinez (30 100):
http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/nicaragua/estadio_dennis_martinez/100.jpg

Estadio Nacional de Futbol (20 000) <- Think its U/C, this is just a render.
http://www.fenifut.org.ni/futbol/NuevasImagenesEstadio300805/PERSP1-web.jpg

Estadio Héroes Mártines (8 000):
http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/nicaragua/estadio_heroes_y_martines_septiembre/130.jpg

Estadio Cacinque Dirangén (7 500):
http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/nicaragua/diriangen/120.jpg

They are in serious need of a tune up!

what a great setting for a future champions league final and even a world cup final.

Wow! Valencia Stadium looks amazing :shocked:

5 Best Stadiums in England

#1 Highbury
http://www.stadiumguide.com/highbury4.jpg

#2 Old Trafford
http://www.stadiumguide.com/oldtrafford5.jpg

#3 Ashburton Grove
http://www.stadiumguide.com/ashburton1.jpg

#4 City of Manchester Stadium
http://www.stadiumguide.com/cityofmanchester3.jpg

#5 New Wembly
http://www.stadiumguide.com/wembleynew1.jpg

Also: St. James Park, Anfield (atmosphere), The Valley (Nice trees), Carrow Road, Craven Cottage (Classic), Villa Park, City Ground (Forest)

Worst: Stamford Bridge, White Hart Lane, Fratton Park, Hillsborough, Stadium of Light, The Riverside, Selhurst Park

http://i4.tinypic.com/23svucp.jpg


Is the field some sort of retractable roof ? If it is, then this stadium could hold big conventions, which will bring a lot of money to Valencia CF.

At least from that list I know that there are a number of leagues that get even a lower attedence than the WNBA.

And the 2nd...

Edgar Proença Olimpic Stadium (Mangueirão), capacity:56.600, owner: Pará State, Belém, PA

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/Mangueiro.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m158/cacobianchi/Mangueiro2.jpg
This stadium looks brilliant, such a normal design but the spikey things on the roof make looks so different & awesome

Denmark

Parken (All-seater 41 781) - Copenhagen
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/copenhagen_parken1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/copenhagen_parken2.jpg

Brøndby Stadium (29.000 - seats: 23.400) - Brøndby (Copenhagen)
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/copenhagen_brondby1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/copenhagen_brondby2.jpg

Århus Idrætspark (All-seater 21 000) - Århus
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/aarhus_idraetspark1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/aarhus_idraetspark2.jpg

Aalborg Stadion (16 000 - seats: 12 000) - Aalborg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/aalborg_stadion1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/denmark/aalborg_stadion2.jpg

Does anybody have some stats for the Champions League?

Does anybody have some stats for the Champions League?


The champions league is on that list(average attendance 39k)

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost for a ticket? As a student, going to the football here is cheaper than a night at the movies.

General admission at the MCG and Telstra Dome:
Adult: $18.50 (US$13, €11)
Concession: $11 (US$8.40, €6.50)
Junior (6-14 years): $2.20 (US$1.60, €1.30)

Children below the age of 6 get in for free.

I'm curious why the don't include the Champions League.

Its way way way way cheaper to attend football in Germany compared to England, where its getting ridiculous.

Well thats the problem of the Premierleague.
The tickets for a premierleague game are far more expensive than the tickets here for the Bundesliga or the spanish/french or italian league.
The attendancies have gone down in the last season in the premierleague whereas the Bundesliga is booming.
Maybe they should consider to lower the prices.
Paying around 50 pounds to see Portsmouth take on Charlton isnt very justified imo.


Germany have almost double the population but fewer teams in their league.


Germany has 83m inhabitants and England around 53m.
Thats not double the population.
But we do have fewer teams in our leagues and therefore the total attendance used to be bigger in the premierleague for quite a while even though we had bigger average attendancies since 2002 I think.


The % of seats sold in England is still higher than Germany, where capacities are higher than in England because its the only major league in europe that allows standing areas.

the Bundesliga has higher capacities even without stands.


The have only just gone past England for the first time ever, connected to the bulk world cup modernisation of venues.

No, we had the biggest average attendancies since quite a while now.
I think since 2002 or earlier.
The Premierleague was only ahead because it features more teams and hence more games are being played there.



England´s other sports are also attracting far higher crowds than Germany´s other sports.

dunno really.
We dont play rugby or Cricket but we do like Ice-Hockey,Handball and to a lesser extent Basketball.
the figures for the NFL Europe are also not bad considering that all but one team are german.
And theres also some interest in motor racing where the DTM for example surely attracts far more crowds than any motor racing even in England.




Whats happening in Germany is great, but interest in footall is much higher in England

No way.
As I said the Bundesliga managed to increase its attendancies continually in the last years whereas in the premierleague the attendancies are actually going back. (Not by much but still..)
the Sportschau (Germanys equivalent of Match of the day) is being watched by around 10million viewers each Saturday.
Match of the Day doesnt attract as many viewers I guess.
.

Northern Ireland

Casement Park - Co. Antrim GAA sports - Belfast - 32,000

http://antrim.sitesuite.ws/images/casementarialphoto.jpg

Windsor Park - Linfield F.C. and Northern Ireland International Football - Befast - 20,400 (14,400 Seats)

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/united_kingdom/northern_ireland/belfast_windsor.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40891000/jpg/_40891934_sven_windsor_park200.jpg

Ravenhill Ulster Rugby - Belfast - 16,000

http://www.scrum.com/heineken/00-01/venues/images/ulster.jpg

The Oval - Glentoran F.C. - Belfast - 15,000

http://www.shankly.com/shankly-ima/glentoranjpg.jpg
http://www.culturenorthernireland.org/up_images/2222OvalADJ.jpg

As you can see, N.I. doesn't really have an overabundace of World Class stadia...

Turkey is wrong

The champions league is on that list(average attendance 39k)

You are right ;)
I have overlooked that.

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost for a ticket? As a student, going to the football here is cheaper than a night at the movies.

General admission at the MCG and Telstra Dome:
Adult: $18.50 (US$13, €11)
Concession: $11 (US$8.40, €6.50)
Junior (6-14 years): $2.20 (US$1.60, €1.30)


In soccer Spanish League it depends a lot of the team. In a not important team, like Getafe CF, the prize of a season ticket (for 19 matches of the Liga) is between €160 for boys in the worst seat of the ground to €460 for adults of the best seats in the ground.

http://www.getafecf.com/abonos.asp

In a top team like Valencia the prices for the season ticket (for all the matches the Liga and Champions League), are between 230€ and 1700€. There are also VIP seats whose prices are about 8000 euros a season.

And for a single match it depends but is always more expensive. There are grounds where its very difficult to find a seat. In Nou Camp i think the cheaper tickets costs €20.

Finally in other sports tickets are cheaper. In Spanish basketball championship the prices for a season ticket (17 matches plus playoff) use to cost about 150-200 euros. The same price for a season ticket of a top handball team.

Well thats the problem of the Premierleague.
The tickets for a premierleague game are far more expensive than the tickets here for the Bundesliga or the spanish/french or italian league.
The attendancies have gone down in the last season in the premierleague whereas the Bundesliga is booming.
Maybe they should consider to lower the prices.
Paying around 50 pounds to see Portsmouth take on Charlton isnt very justified imo.



Germany has 83m inhabitants and England around 53m.
Thats not double the population.
But we do have fewer teams in our leagues and therefore the total attendance used to be bigger in the premierleague for quite a while even though we had bigger average attendancies since 2002 I think.



the Bundesliga has higher capacities even without stands.



No, we had the biggest average attendancies since quite a while now.
I think since 2002 or earlier.
The Premierleague was only ahead because it features more teams and hence more games are being played there.




dunno really.
We dont play rugby or Cricket but we do like Ice-Hockey,Handball and to a lesser extent Basketball.
the figures for the NFL Europe are also not bad considering that all but one team are german.
And theres also some interest in motor racing where the DTM for example surely attracts far more crowds than any motor racing even in England.





No way.
As I said the Bundesliga managed to increase its attendancies continually in the last years whereas in the premierleague the attendancies are actually going back. (Not by much but still..)
the Sportschau (Germanys equivalent of Match of the day) is being watched by around 10million viewers each Saturday.
Match of the Day doesnt attract as many viewers I guess.
.

Interest in football is way higher in England compared to Germany.
The 2 nations are of similar wealth per person but there is far more money in the english game despite Germany being the far bigger country.

Why is that if its not because of a far higher interest?

As for other sports, rugby alone attracts more than icehockey, handball and german-NFL combined do in Germany and add I would think cricket does the same and again England is far smaller than Germany and most of these tickets are also way more expensive.

However whats happening in Germany is great and I comletly agree, English football / english sport is incredibly over -priced. Its just not easy to do anything about as long as they keep filling the stadiums which the big clubs do.

Damn there are 2,419 games being played in the MLB?
Quite amazing.

18,965 as an average attendance for the NFL europe is also not bad I guess.

Its sad to see though that the attendance in Italy has gone down by 14,8 percent compared to the last year.
And I think that the next season might not be much better.

Also for baseball keep in mind that for every Major League team there are 6 or 7 Minor League teams that are associated with them. So really there are like ~12,000 to 15,000 professional baseball games a year in the US & Canada.

At least from that list I know that there are a number of leagues that get even a lower attedence than the WNBA.
So...? Your point is...

Interest in football is way higher in England compared to Germany.
The 2 nations are of similar wealth per person but there is far more money in the english game despite Germany being the far bigger country.

Why is that if its not because of a far higher interest?
I think domestically the leagues are probably on equal footing. That is to say, the EPL is as popular in England as the Bundesliga is in Germany. I think the difference in money (and by extension fan interest) is in foreign/overseas markets. The EPL is the most watched sporting competition in the entire world, and it's not becuase of English fans alone watching the games on TV. The reason there is so much more money in the Premiership than the Bundesliga is becuase of the millions and millions of followers the Premierleague has internationally, followers that the Bundesliga does not have. This also explains why the Bundesliga has higher ticket sales but still less money; their clubs make much much less globally off of TV rights and merchandising. I can think of only one German club (Bayern Munchen) that is on par with the likes of Arsenal, Man U, Chelski, and Liverpool as far as globall following is concerned.

^^I'd just like to clarify about my last post that I was talking only about the top flight leagues in each country. Nothing about the Football League or the lower German divisions. As far as that goes, there's no question there's more domestic interest in England.

I think domestically the leagues are probably on equal footing. That is to say, the EPL is as popular in England as the Bundesliga is in Germany. I think the difference in money (and by extension fan interest) is in foreign/overseas markets. The EPL is the most watched sporting competition in the entire world, and it's not becuase of English fans alone watching the games on TV. The reason there is so much more money in the Premiership than the Bundesliga is becuase of the millions and millions of followers the Premierleague has internationally, followers that the Bundesliga does not have. This also explains why the Bundesliga has higher ticket sales but still less money; their clubs make much much less globally off of TV rights and merchandising. I can think of only one German club (Bayern Munchen) that is on par with the likes of Arsenal, Man U, Chelski, and Liverpool as far as globall following is concerned.

Yes the english premiership is more popular globally, but overseas income is still relatively insignificant for european leagues.

It has far more to do with matchday income. Matchday income for a club like Arsenal will absolutely dwarf a club like Borussia Dortmund despite Dortmund having a bigger capacity.
It does matter whether you are selling £8 tickets or £50 tickets.

Out of curiosity, how much does it cost for a ticket? As a student, going to the football here is cheaper than a night at the movies.

General admission at the MCG and Telstra Dome:
Adult: $18.50 (US$13, €11)
Concession: $11 (US$8.40, €6.50)
Junior (6-14 years): $2.20 (US$1.60, €1.30)

Children below the age of 6 get in for free.



well,for my team.QPR,I pay £500 for a season ticket.Matchday prices are about £25.
Premier league matchday tickets seem to vary,according to the club,but anything from £25-£45
season tickets can vary too.I know Charlton do one for under £400,but the likes of Chelsea nd Arsenal,your looking at nearer a grand

Yes the english premiership is more popular globally, but overseas income is still relatively insignificant for european leagues.

That's true.


It has far more to do with matchday income.

No. It has to do with domestic TV deals and how the money is distributed.
Bayern Munich e.g. gets 100 Mio. less than big Italian clubs alone out of domestic TV deals - each season.

1. the Bundesliga is marketed as a whole. No German club can sell TV rights on their own. Which means less income for the big ones.
2. the earned money is distributed in a way that even the smaller clubs still get a decent amount of money - again to the account of the bigger clubs.

Clubs like Hamburg, Bremen, Leverkusen etc. could earn more money and Bayern Munich would be near equal in terms of TV income with other big european clubs if they marketed the TV rights on their own.

/Edit: I forgot: You also have to consider that pay-TV is almost demonised in Germany, because there is a long tradition of comprehensive free TV broadcasting of the Bundesliga. Free TV also meaning more viewers but less income for the clubs.

That's true.



No. It has to do with domestic TV deals and how the money is distributed.
Bayern Munich e.g. gets 100 Mio. less than big Italian clubs alone out of domestic TV deals - each season.

1. the Bundesliga is marketed as a whole. No German club can sell TV rights on their own. Which means less income for the big ones.
2. the earned money is distributed in a way that even the smaller clubs still get a decent amount of money - again to the account of the bigger clubs.

Clubs like Hamburg, Bremen, Leverkusen etc. could earn more money and Bayern Munich would be near equal in terms of TV income with other big european clubs if they marketed the TV rights on their own.

/Edit: I forgot: You also have to consider that pay-TV is almost demonised in Germany, because there is a long tradition of comprehensive free TV broadcasting of the Bundesliga. Free TV also meaning more viewers but less income for the clubs.

yes the german league sell their tv rights collectively, but so does England, only the english tv deal is bigger and their matchday income far higher and thats why they can share the tv-money while top english clubs are still able to compete with the top italian clubs who screw their own league completly financially which leads to the endless chaos and self-destruction in italian football.

Both tv-income and matchday income is higher in England than Germany despite England being a far smaller country. There is more interest in England, but german fans do get a far better deal.
Introduce some "german pricing" in english football and crowds would rocket, especially in the lower leagues where few clubs reach capacity.

As it is I wouldnt be surprised to see the german second league average to top the english second level this year. A relegated club like Koln will no doubt achieve higher averages than any 2nd level english club because prices arent a joke.

The problem in english football is that new stadiums seem to be so much more expensive to build in England compared to elsewhere. I dont know why that is. I think they do have more of the money-making business facilities in new english stadiums like the Emirates but it cant explain the difference

It means that too many english clubs are stuck in too small too old and massively overpriced venues.

Interest in football is way higher in England compared to Germany.
The 2 nations are of similar wealth per person but there is far more money in the english game despite Germany being the far bigger country.

Why is that if its not because of a far higher interest?

maybe because you are charging up to 60 pounds for a Charlton versus Portsmouth match?
Thats one reason.
The other was that we had the Kirch-crisis which lead to small TV-deals.
However we have a new deal since this year which is around the same as the Premierleagues deal.
Also we havent (yet) sold the name rights for the Bundesliga.
In Britain you have the Barclays Premierleague, and the Coca-Cola championship etc..
And I already gave you a comparison between the Sportschau and Match of the day.




As for other sports, rugby alone attracts more than icehockey, handball and german-NFL combined do in Germany and add I would think cricket does the same and again England is far smaller than Germany and most of these tickets are also way more expensive.

rubbish.
I just checked the stats.
The Ice-hockey league in Germany is doing fine.
Just have a look at all the arenas that are and have been built in Germany.
In Britain you simply dont have these facilities.
And cricket doesnt even have big stadiums.
theres Lords and the Oval.
They are both rather tiny.
And the Rugby league doesnt attract more than Ice-Hockey,Handball and Basketball combined.
We have the biggest Ice-Hockey and Handball league here, and our Basketball league is way bigger than in Britain.
the sport itself is far more popular here.

Btw: The DFL (the german Icehockey league) infact has attracted 2,034,222 viewers last season whereas the Guinness rugby league has attracted only 1,355,820.
To be fair though the average attendancy in the Rugby league was twice as high than in the DFL.
The cricket league btw. has attracted only 544,820 viewers in only 79 games.
The Handball Bundesliga however has attracted 1,390,158 viewers in 306 games.

Both tv-income and matchday income is higher in England than Germany despite England being a far smaller country. There is more interest in England, but german fans do get a far better deal.


the matchday income is higer because much more money is charged.
I actually do belive that the Premierleague probably charges higher prices for tickets than any other professional league.
What happens then is, that the attendancy figures are dwindling and the clubs wont feel the need to enlarge their stadiums.

Btw: How much does the Premierlague get with its TV deal overall?
I think that the Bundesliga and the Premierleague are not far apart on this matter.
The Bundesliga gets around 1,26 Billion Euros (1,6 billion dollars) for the next 3 years.

maybe because you are charging up to 60 pounds for a Charlton versus Portsmouth match?
Thats one reason.
The other was that we had the Kirch-crisis which lead to small TV-deals.
However we have a new deal since this year which is around the same as the Premierleagues deal.
Also we havent (yet) sold the name rights for the Bundesliga.
In Britain you have the Barclays Premierleague, and the Coca-Cola championship etc..
And I already gave you a comparison between the Sportschau and Match of the day.





rubbish.
I just checked the stats.
The Ice-hockey league in Germany is doing fine.
Just have a look at all the arenas that are and have been built in Germany.
In Britain you simply dont have these facilities.
And cricket doesnt even have big stadiums.
theres Lords and the Oval.
They are both rather tiny.
And the Rugby league doesnt attract more than Ice-Hockey,Handball and Basketball combined.
We have the biggest Ice-Hockey and Handball league here, and our Basketball league is way bigger than in Britain.
the sport itself is far more popular here.

Btw: The DFL (the german Icehockey league) infact has attracted 2,034,222 viewers last season whereas the Guinness rugby league has attracted only 1,355,820.
To be fair though the average attendancy in the Rugby league was twice as high than in the DFL.
The cricket league btw. has attracted only 544,820 viewers in only 79 games.
The Handball Bundesliga however has attracted 1,390,158 viewers in 306 games.

You dont understand cricket and rugby. There are several competitions and much focus on national teams.

Cricket has a total attendance for the 18 first class teams and the national team at about 2½ million.
The total rugby crowds are probably 3-4 million for all international and first level club game. Then there is actually another version of rugby which adds another 1½ million

Many of these rugby and cricket tickets are very expensive and difficult to get hold of.

This easily beats german icehockey and handball, (though of course these figures are for the german league only and would be a bit higher if international games were included but it wouldnt change much)



Then there is horseracing, almost 6 million attending over a year.

And of course lower league english football crowds are also still much higher than Germany.

Non football:

cricket 2½ million
Rugby U 4 million
rugby L 1½ million
Horses 6 million

compared to

Icehockey 2 million
Handball 1½ million
german-nfl ½ million
???
very rounded numbers obviously

You dont understand cricket and rugby. There are several competitions and much focus on national teams.

Cricket has a total attendance for the 18 first class teams and the national team at about 2½ million.
The total rugby crowds are probably 3-4 million for all international and first level club game. Then there is actually another version of rugby which adds another 1½ million

Many of these rugby and cricket tickets are very expensive and difficult to get hold of.

This easily beats german icehockey and handball, (though of course these figures are for the german league only and would be a bit higher if international games were included but it wouldnt change much)



Then there is horseracing, almost 6 million attending over a year.

And of course lower league english football crowds are also still much higher than Germany.

Non football:

cricket 2½ million
Rugby U 4 million
rugby L 1½ million
Horses 6 million

compared to

Icehockey 2 million
Handball 1½ million
german-nfl ½ million
???
very rounded numbers obviously

I just wrote an extensive answer to your post but when I posted it the server was down :bash:
So Ill keep it short this time

First of all:

Cricket gets only 1m per year.
Rugby gets 3m

Now you mention horseracing. Keep in mind that wintersports are immensely popular here in Germany.
They attract millions of viewers on TV.
I could also mention the DTM or other motorsport franchises that attract more than in Britain.
(The Formula one alos attracts more here btw)

And the lower football leagues in Britain do not get much more viewers than here in Germany.

the Bundesliga gets 7.000 more per game on average than the premierleague.
The 2nd Bundesliga however only gets 4.000 less than the Championship.
Keep also in mind that lower german leagues are not featured in that list since they are regarded as amateur leagues (kind of like College Football)

I just wrote an extensive answer to your post but when I posted it the server was down :bash:
So Ill keep it short this time

First of all:

Cricket gets only 1m per year.
Rugby gets 3m

Now you mention horseracing. Keep in mind that wintersports are immensely popular here in Germany.
They attract millions of viewers on TV.
I could also mention the DTM or other motorsport franchises that attract more than in Britain.
(The Formula one alos attracts more here btw)

And the lower football leagues in Britain do not get much more viewers than here in Germany.

the Bundesliga gets 7.000 more per game on average than the premierleague.
The 2nd Bundesliga however only gets 4.000 less than the Championship.
Keep also in mind that lower german leagues are not featured in that list since they are regarded as amateur leagues (kind of like College Football)

german amateur football is nothing like the NCAA. Its just amateur because pro football isnt sustainable at that level in Germany.
But yes german lower league crowds are catching up. Thats my point about the problems with the cost of attending games in england.

You have changed cricket crowds from ½ to 1 million but still its not all included.
Its like this..very roughly

County championship ½ million
twenty cup ½ million
1 day league + cup ½ million
England national team, all games 1 million

Rugby is difficult to look at for just England as the game is centred around competiton between the british nations, thus basically "english" money flows into the other nations.
But for all UK Ireland it seems to be like this:

english premiership 1.355.000
Celtic league 571.000
Heineken 971.000
6-nations 841.000
British home games v Southern hemisphere est. 500.000

I make that 4.2 million. this does include games in France in Heineken and 6-nations but certainly very close to 4 million british alone and
then of course the "other rugby code" could be added meaning another 1.5 million taking total british rugby crowds well past 5 million.

Comparing total crowds, (not just averages in football), for major sports in all Britain and Germany also shows the difference in numbers attending.

Britain
Football premiership 12.872.000
championship 9.724.000
league-one 4.271.000
league-two 2.482.000
conference 913.000
scottish 3.687.000


total british league-football : 33.949.000

Germany

Bundesliga 12.872.000
BL-2 4.415.000
Regional 2.155.000

total german league-football : 19.442.000

far higher numbers in England despite tickets being far more expensive , and of course Germany being a significantly larger nation.
Sure there are many more teams in the british numbers but thats because they attract crowds worth counting that far down. Lower german leagues may add a bit to the numbers but probably less than even lower brtish leagues.

Non football
Britain

Rugby 5 million
cricket 2½ million
horses 6 million

thats 13½ million for Britain´s other major sports

germany

Icehockey 2 million
handball 1½ million
German-nfl ½ million

thats 4 million for Germany´s other major sports.

Add to football and its: Britain 47½ million, Germany 23½ million and british numbers are kept down far more by sell-outs and expensive tickets in all the sports
Its pretty obvious as Wikipedia themselves conclude that sports attendances are highest in the english-speaking world, then followed by the rest of the developed the world

Here are the latest attendence stats for the Brasilian main league, Brasileirao Serie A. Currently the league is in mid season.

Position Team Average Attendence
1°) Grêmio-RS....22.594
2°) Internacional-RS....21.192
3°) Cruzeiro....17.748
4°) Santa Cruz....16.274
5°) Fluminense....13.679
6°) Vasco....13.326
7°) Fortaleza....13.222
8°) Flamengo....12.667
9°) Atlético-PR....10.914
10°) São Paulo....10.744
11°) Corinthians.…10.494
12°) Figueirense....10.415
13°) Palmeiras....10.036
14°) Botafogo-RJ....9.154
15°) Santos....8.552,50
16°) Paraná Clube ....7.736
17°) Goiás.…6.499
18°) Ponte Preta....6.491
19°) Juventude....3.916
20°) São Caetano....1.740

In terms of location on the current performance chart


01 São Paulo
02 Paraná
03 Santos
04 Cruzeiro
05 International
06 Fluminense
...
19 Fortaleza
20 Corinthians


Im actually going to a Paraná Clube game this weekend, they expect 15,000 people. Last game had 7,000

Now you mention horseracing. Keep in mind that wintersports are immensely popular here in Germany.
They attract millions of viewers on TV.
I could also mention the DTM or other motorsport franchises that attract more than in Britain. (The Formula one alos attracts more here btw)
...
the Bundesliga gets 7.000 more per game on average than the premierleague.

This Wikipedia compilation deals with live attendances, not TV, so inserts like Formula1 etc are only confusing here.
BTW, if motorsport franchises in Germany then snooker in Britain, ok?

Also statistical game averages mean nothing. Only total figures count.
Imagine a music concert (only one that year) in a small city like Bremerhaven with 7,000 folk music fans, and, on the other side, about 750 gigs in Hamburg (700 in small clubs, 50 in a big arena) with a total attendance of maybe 750,000.
Small city average: 7,000
Hamburg average: 1,000
Such numbers mean nothing, or is music in Bremerhaven more important than in Hamburg?

german amateur football is nothing like the NCAA. Its just amateur because pro football isnt sustainable at that level in Germany.
But yes german lower league crowds are catching up. Thats my point about the problems with the cost of attending games in england.

No. It is of course sustainable as a professional league.
Its juts a different philosophy.
Like College football in the US. They could also make it professional but they dont want to.
And they are comparable. The 3rd divisions get more specs (also on average) in England, then again there are about a zillion teams in the championship.
So you cant really compare the overall figure.


You have changed cricket crowds from ½ to 1 million but still its not all included.
Its like this..very roughly

County championship ½ million
twenty cup ½ million
1 day league + cup ½ million
England national team, all games 1 million

Rugby is difficult to look at for just England as the game is centred around competiton between the british nations, thus basically "english" money flows into the other nations.
But for all UK Ireland it seems to be like this:

english premiership 1.355.000
Celtic league 571.000
Heineken 971.000
6-nations 841.000
British home games v Southern hemisphere est. 500.000

I make that 4.2 million. this does include games in France in Heineken and 6-nations but certainly very close to 4 million british alone and
then of course the "other rugby code" could be added meaning another 1.5 million taking total british rugby crowds well past 5 million.


No. Im right with my figures. you cant just include international games.
We are talking about domestic sports here.
If you do that then I could do it aswell.
You also just cant include figures for the whole of Britain.
Scotland,Wales etc all have their own leagues so you cant just include them because it seems convenient.
The figures that Ive given for Cricket and Rugby are correct.


Comparing total crowds, (not just averages in football), for major sports in all Britain and Germany also shows the difference in numbers attending.

Britain
Football premiership 12.872.000
championship 9.724.000
league-one 4.271.000
league-two 2.482.000
conference 913.000
scottish 3.687.000


total british league-football : 33.949.000

Germany

Bundesliga 12.872.000
BL-2 4.415.000
Regional 2.155.000

total german league-football : 19.442.000.

again could you tell me why youve just switched from english football to british football?????
You cant include the scottish,welsh leagues.
they are independant.
at the same time I could also include the austrian or swiss leagues but they are also independant.
Just get your facts straight.
Ive given the correct figures according to Wikipedia.
And agin I stress that winter sports are very popular here in atttendances as is the DTM etc..
But I dont have the time to search out attendancy figures for that now.


Add to football and its: Britain 47½ million, Germany 23½ million and british numbers are kept down far more by sell-outs and expensive tickets in all the sports
Its pretty obvious as Wikipedia themselves conclude that sports attendances are highest in the english-speaking world, then followed by the rest of the developed the world

Complete rubbish.
For a start we are talking about english and not British figures.
youve just started to inlcude the stats for Scotland.
Again I could also inlude the stats for Austria or Switzerland hre.
Secondly you are forgetting winter sports,motor sports etc,etc...
I could also inlude lower Ice-Hockey leagues etc..

This Wikipedia compilation deals with live attendances, not TV, so inserts like Formula1 etc are only confusing here.
BTW, if motorsport franchises in Germany then snooker in Britain, ok?

Snooker???
Im quite a Snooker fan and I know that it gets some attendancies during big tournaments but overall it doesnt make any difference.
They usually play in small halls and have a few hundred specs but not more.
Dont confuse live audiences with TV figures.
And dont compare the DTM or Formula 1 with Snooker thats just bizarre.


Also statistical game averages mean nothing. Only total figures count.


Nonsense.
If you would only count total figures than the Championship would be one of the best attended leagues in Europe.
You are forgetting however that there are a zillion teams playing in the Championship whereas other leagues only feature 18 teams.
So the average attendancy is the most important factor here.

checker,

I included british figures because a sport like rugby is centred around inter-british competition

I then used Britain for all the sports, since my point was about higher attendances in the english speakingworld and since all of the UK is still significantly smaller than Germany why is it so wrong.
Its just rather obvious to wikipedia and just about everyone else that sports-attending is the highest in Britain, Australia and north america

checker,

I included british figures because a sport like rugby is centred around inter-british competition
I then used Britain for all the sports, since my point was about higher attendances in the english speakingworld and since all of the UK is still significantly smaller than Germany why is it so wrong.

Fine so I can include all of the german speaking world aswell?
I could also include austrian or swiss sports?


Its just rather obvious to wikipedia and just about everyone else that sports-attending is the highest in Britain, Australia and north america

Its not obvious and its simply not true.
The Bundesliga attracts 7.000 more per game on average. That alone is quite a difference.

The Bundesliga attracts 7.000 more per game on average. That alone is quite a difference.

Only because:

1. The average capacity of Bundesliga stadia is much higher than that of Premiership stadia.

2. Bundesliga ticket prices are much lower than Premiership ticket prices.

If Premiership stadia were, on average, as big as Bundesliga stadia and if Premiership ticket prices were, on average, the same as Bundesliga ticket prices, then there can be little doubt that average Premiership attendances would be at least as high as Bundesliga attendances. More likely, in fact, they would be higher.

Also, I don't think you can discount the numbers attending the lower divisions in England just because, according to you, there are a "zillion" teams. The point still remains that the demand to watch live lower league football in England is much greater than it is in Germany.

The large numbers of fans attending lower league matches in England are clearly fans that are lost to the Premiership - therefore having a knock on effect on potential Premiership attendances. This phenomenon doesn't affect the Bundesliga to anything like the same degree.

Finally, just to emphasise, Germany's population exceed's England's by more than 30 million.

P.S. One other point to consider:

The Premiership has 20 teams. The Bundesliga has 18 teams. An average attendance figure will always favour the league which has the fewest teams. For example, if the Premiership only contained 18 teams and we dropped the two that were worst supported last season, its average attendance would have risen to 35,400.

Similarly, if the Bundesliga contained 20 teams and we included the two best supported second level teams in Germany, the average attendance would have dropped to 39,718.

Btw: How much does the Premierlague get with its TV deal overall?
I think that the Bundesliga and the Premierleague are not far apart on this matter.
The Bundesliga gets around 1,26 Billion Euros (1,6 billion dollars) for the next 3 years.

Not far apart........if you call $1.5 billion not far apart!

The latest three year EPL domestic television deal for live games involved the sale of six separate packages (after the EU insisted that no one broadcatser could win the rights) to Sky and Setanta. Total value is £1.7 billion or $3.16 billion over three years:

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=sbd.preview&storyId=SBD2006050806

http://www.footballeconomy.com/rep_may_03.htm

P.S. This figure does not include the rights for overseas broadcast of Premiership matches. Nor does it include the BBC's Match of the Day highlights deal.

This is hilarious - the English simply cannot accept that Germans are simply miles better and more passionate about their football. Bigger stadiums, terracing, singing for 90 minutes, bigger crowds, much more passionate fans with atmospheres, fan displays and colour which is miles ahead of anything found in English stadiums!!

Why are the English so surprised??? Their international team is a world joke that has done nothing in 40 years and has been outperformed by teams like Greece, so why should their league be any better?? It's simply another case of deluded English people who think they are the best in the world at something, but every sane person outside of England clearly sees that England are utter crap at football!!

Remember all the posts about England have a good chance of winning the World Cup???? Totally deluded fools!! They will never change!


Germany have won 6 major tournaments and been in 12 finals (the last was 4 years ago)
Italy have won 5 major tournaments and been in 8 finals (the last was 0 years ago)
France have won 3 major tournaments and been in 4 finals (the last was 0 years ago)
Netherlands have won 1 major tournament and been in 3 finals (the last was 18 years ago)
Czechoslovakia have won 1 major tournament and been in 3 finals (the last was 30 years ago)
Spain have won 1 major tournament and been in 2 finals (the last was 22 years ago)
Greece have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 2 years ago)
Denmark have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 14 years ago)
England have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 40 years ago!!!)

Look at their record, the 9th best in Europe!!!! We haven't even taken into account South America!!!!!!!

scottish 3.687.000


Get your facts right, Scotland is 4.372.392, out of a population of 5 million!! Remarkable!!

That first link is awesome! What an amazing game :)

MG2

This is hilarious - the English simply cannot accept that Germans are simply miles better and more passionate about their football. Bigger stadiums, terracing, singing for 90 minutes, bigger crowds, much more passionate fans with atmospheres, fan displays and colour which is miles ahead of anything found in English stadiums!!

Why are the English so surprised??? Their international team is a world joke that has done nothing in 40 years and has been outperformed by teams like Greece, so why should their league be any better?? It's simply another case of deluded English people who think they are the best in the world at something, but every sane person outside of England clearly sees that England are utter crap at football!!

Remember all the posts about England have a good chance of winning the World Cup???? Totally deluded fools!! They will never change!


Germany have won 6 major tournaments and been in 12 finals (the last was 4 years ago)
Italy have won 5 major tournaments and been in 8 finals (the last was 0 years ago)
France have won 3 major tournaments and been in 4 finals (the last was 0 years ago)
Netherlands have won 1 major tournament and been in 3 finals (the last was 18 years ago)
Czechoslovakia have won 1 major tournament and been in 3 finals (the last was 30 years ago)
Spain have won 1 major tournament and been in 2 finals (the last was 22 years ago)
Greece have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 2 years ago)
Denmark have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 14 years ago)
England have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 40 years ago!!!)

Look at their record, the 9th best in Europe!!!! We haven't even taken into account South America!!!!!!!

Amazing!
Maybe you don't know, but it's a thread about Wikipedia figures and NOT a propaganda thread. Goebbels sends his regards!

Im quite a Snooker fan ...
Many thanks! Your reply is a clear evidence, that I'm right.
You and me watching snooker on TV, and cause I never saw DTM (though living in Germany), TV-snooker is more popular than TV-DTM, inside our tiny community!
You love statistics, you got it!

Snooker???
Nonsense.
If you would only count total figures than the Championship would be one of the best attended leagues in Europe.
You are forgetting however that there are a zillion teams playing in the Championship whereas other leagues only feature 18 teams.
So the average attendancy is the most important factor here.
Many words, but no content.
Once again: an average stat value is a complex result, and it's just impossible to take into consideration all the circumstances how the figures to be evaluated.

Two quotations:
It is easy to lie with statistics. It is hard to tell the truth without it. (Andrejs Dunkels)
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. (Leonard H. Courtney)

So, you'd better learn mathematics and statistics than watch Bundesliga.

How many names does that damn Celt get through.

This is hilarious - the English simply cannot accept that Germans are simply miles better and more passionate about their football. Bigger stadiums, terracing, singing for 90 minutes, bigger crowds, much more passionate fans with atmospheres, fan displays and colour which is miles ahead of anything found in English stadiums!!

Why are the English so surprised??? Their international team is a world joke that has done nothing in 40 years and has been outperformed by teams like Greece, so why should their league be any better?? It's simply another case of deluded English people who think they are the best in the world at something, but every sane person outside of England clearly sees that England are utter crap at football!!

Remember all the posts about England have a good chance of winning the World Cup???? Totally deluded fools!! They will never change!


Germany have won 6 major tournaments and been in 12 finals (the last was 4 years ago)
Italy have won 5 major tournaments and been in 8 finals (the last was 0 years ago)
France have won 3 major tournaments and been in 4 finals (the last was 0 years ago)
Netherlands have won 1 major tournament and been in 3 finals (the last was 18 years ago)
Czechoslovakia have won 1 major tournament and been in 3 finals (the last was 30 years ago)
Spain have won 1 major tournament and been in 2 finals (the last was 22 years ago)
Greece have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 2 years ago)
Denmark have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 14 years ago)
England have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 40 years ago!!!)

Look at their record, the 9th best in Europe!!!! We haven't even taken into account South America!!!!!!!

Hello, bubomb!

Just for a laugh, let's take your post at face value, rather than the trolling that it was meant to be!

1. No one is discussing atmosphere or flags and flares at football matches.

2. No one is discussing the English national team.

We are only discussing attendances.

Glad we got that sorted. Run along now, you little scamp (bless your little, cotton socks!).

Many thanks! Your reply is a clear evidence, that I'm right.

If you like to believe that :lol:

You and me watching snooker on TV, and cause I never saw DTM (though living in Germany), TV-snooker is more popular than TV-DTM, inside our tiny community!
You love statistics, you got it!

lol?
The DTM is on TV.
And Snooker is not popular in Germany. What the hell are you talking about.
The Snooker community is tiny here.
a friend of mine plays quite big tournaments here in Germany but you wont see them in TV because theres no interest.
However you do see the DTM on TV.
It is highly promoted and there are lots of popular drivers in there, some of them coming from Formula 1 like Jean Alesi.
Honestly: You dont seem to know much about sports or attendancy figures.


Many words, but no content.

Just figure what Ive stated and look for other threads where we have discussed this topic thoroughly.
Anna Maria with all respect: You dont seem to know much about sport statistics and your claim that only the overall atendancy counts shows that.
Maybe you want to read into the european leagues and how they are built up before you comment on this topic. ;)

Once again: an average stat value is a complex result, and it's just impossible to take into consideration all the circumstances how the figures to be evaluated.

All the circumstances?
It really isnt as difficult as you try to make it.


Two quotations:
It is easy to lie with statistics. It is hard to tell the truth without it. (Andrejs Dunkels)
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. (Leonard H. Courtney)

Absolutely: I just remember that I was being bashed before the last german elections because I refused to believe the statistics which saw the CDU/CSU miles ahead of the SPD.
However Anna, we are talking about sport attendancies here.
You can count all the poeple that go into a stadium and pay for a ticket.
Sure there are some differences but you can of course compare the Premierleague and the Bundesliga based on the average attendancy figures per matchday.
You cant compare the whole attendance because the Bundesliga for example features only 18 teams whereas the Premierleague features 20 .
Its a different philosophy.
Therefore the average attendancy is the best comparison that we have.
But also with 18 teams the Bundesliga still has a bigger overall attendance than the Premierleague.

So, you'd better learn mathematics and statistics than watch Bundesliga.

thanks for the advise Anna :lol:
Ill try to remember it

This is hilarious - the English simply cannot accept that Germans are simply miles better and more passionate about their football. Bigger stadiums, terracing, singing for 90 minutes, bigger crowds, much more passionate fans with atmospheres, fan displays and colour which is miles ahead of anything found in English stadiums!!

Why are the English so surprised??? Their international team is a world joke that has done nothing in 40 years and has been outperformed by teams like Greece, so why should their league be any better?? It's simply another case of deluded English people who think they are the best in the world at something, but every sane person outside of England clearly sees that England are utter crap at football!!

Remember all the posts about England have a good chance of winning the World Cup???? Totally deluded fools!! They will never change!


Germany have won 6 major tournaments and been in 12 finals (the last was 4 years ago)
Italy have won 5 major tournaments and been in 8 finals (the last was 0 years ago)
France have won 3 major tournaments and been in 4 finals (the last was 0 years ago)
Netherlands have won 1 major tournament and been in 3 finals (the last was 18 years ago)
Czechoslovakia have won 1 major tournament and been in 3 finals (the last was 30 years ago)
Spain have won 1 major tournament and been in 2 finals (the last was 22 years ago)
Greece have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 2 years ago)
Denmark have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 14 years ago)
England have won 1 major tournament and been in 1 final (the last was 40 years ago!!!)

Look at their record, the 9th best in Europe!!!! We haven't even taken into account South America!!!!!!!

amazing post. Not even remotely connected to the topic.

one can just feel the desperate need of an obsessively negative scot to relieve his frustrations by repeatedly presenting lengthy statistics that reveals nothing but his own bitternes.

I think funding should be made avialble for a special home where such scots could gather and tell eachother all these things endlessly

Not far apart........if you call $1.5 billion not far apart!

The latest three year EPL domestic television deal for live games involved the sale of six separate packages (after the EU insisted that no one broadcatser could win the rights) to Sky and Setanta. Total value is £1.7 billion or $3.16 billion over three years:

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=sbd.preview&storyId=SBD2006050806

http://www.footballeconomy.com/rep_may_03.htm

P.S. This figure does not include the rights for overseas broadcast of Premiership matches. Nor does it include the BBC's Match of the Day highlights deal.

thats incredible figures. up 66% on what was already the biggest football tv-deal. $1 billion per year and thats just for the live matches.
I hope it can help some of stadium plans to become reality.

Ideally, though not realistic, more of the cash should go to clubs willing to spend on their facilities, which is a long-term investment in football, rather than to clubs just offering even higher salaries to attract players

Some updated pics from Kaiserslautern:

http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49415-4/IMG_3189.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49427-4/IMG_3199.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49406-4/IMG_3181.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49448-4/IMG_3250.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49507-4/IMG_3264.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49519-4/IMG_3268.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49273-4/IMG_3098.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49276-4/IMG_3099.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49279-4/IMG_3100.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49282-4/IMG_3102.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49285-4/IMG_3103.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/6895-2/IMG_6508.jpg
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/7012-2/IMG_6660.jpg
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/7006-2/IMG_6658.jpg
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/7009-2/IMG_6659.jpg
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/7016-2/IMG_6661.jpg

Is the field some sort of retractable roof ? If it is, then this stadium could hold big conventions, which will bring a lot of money to Valencia CF.

I doubt you'd be able to hold conventions around all the hydraulic lifting gear and other gubbins!

Red Bull Park, Harrison, New Jersey (New York City).

http://www.mlsnet.com/images/2006/08/11/XJFoOv9S.jpg

Straylia

I love football (soccer) stadiums, but it's almost impossible to argue against the MCG as Australia's finest stadium...

Melbourne Cricket Ground - Melbourne, Victoria - 100,000

http://www.melbournephotos.net/images/2006-03-23%20Melbourne%20-%20MCG%20Commonwealth%20Games/MCG.jpg

Telstra Stadium (Olympic Stadium) - Sydney, NSW - 83,500

http://www.fussballtempel.net/ofc/AUS/Stadium_Australia_A.jpg

Telstra Dome Melbourne, Victoria - 64,000

http://www.fussballtempel.net/ofc/AUS/Colonial_A.jpg
(incidentally, my office overlooks TelstraDome from the 33rd floor, it's an inspiring sight)

Aussie Stadium - Sydney, NSW - 41,000

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/0/04/800px-Panorama-AussieStadium-Oct2005.jpg

Suncorp Stadium would be fifth - the saddest thing is that in a sports mad nation, there's nothing else worth shouting about - all the others are either too small or too old to get excited about from an architectural point of view.

This is the old design for the red bull stadium

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Redbullpark.jpg

Well, the new one is better, what can I say? way better!

DC United's new digs are going to be very cool, the stadium's going to have a hotel attached to it, very similar to Boca's stadium :
http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/MLS/dcu/stadium/poplar_point/

The renovation and construction of the stadium in Vzla is very great!!

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2006/0812/20060812_020835_stadium1111.jpg

http://saltlake.matchnight.com/sitegfx/new_rsl_stadium.jpg

Real Salt Lake, Sandy (Salt Lake City) Utah.

Stadium + development.

Funny aside: They had David Beckham at the official groundbreaking today. :lol:

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2006/0812/20060812_013136_rsl%20stadium%209711%20JU.jpg

Colorado Rapids, Prairie Gateway, Commerce City (Denver) Colorado.

Opening spring 2007.

http://www.coloradorapids.com/images/community/gallery10.jpg

http://www.coloradorapids.com/images/community/gallery9.jpg

http://www.coloradorapids.com/images/community/gallery108.jpg

http://www.coloradorapids.com/images/community/gallery112.jpg

http://www.coloradorapids.com/images/community/gallery106.jpg

Toronto FC, Exhibition Place, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Opening spring 2007.

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/imgs/stadium/2006/rendering.jpg

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/imgs/stadium/2006/aerial_view.jpg

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/imgs/stadium/construction_photos/2006/06/27/1.jpg

http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/imgs/stadium/webcam/2006/07/0727.jpg

http://67.15.129.139/5895/3/upload/p3400506.gif

http://67.15.129.139/5895/3/upload/p3400457.gif

GOOOOO TORONTO FC!


NYC stadium looks good but lacks in location considering its in another state.

I hope TFC gets good crowds! Watching a 90 minute match on a sunny/humid/smoggy Toronto summer day doesn't sound so fun! I hope in a few years they could install a roof!

^^^ True unfortunatly. Rod Laver and Vodafone arena aren't that bad but not amazing or high capacity. The new stadium for Melbourne looks cool but not very high capacity.

New Stadium
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5318/newstadiuminmelbourneaz7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

MCG at closing ceremony of Melbourne 2006 Commonwealth Games.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/677/closingceremonyfullhouseko8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/1564/closingceremonyilovemelbourne2tp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Wow thanks for the pics! It really seems like Melbourne is the sports and sports venue capital of Australia!

That interesting little football stadium is to have a capacity of around 20000, which is nice and friendly, but hardly likely to help in any future world cup bid.

The football authorities here are making noises about putting in a bid for 2018 - and I know that's a long way off - but I can't see them getting any joy...
We currently have 10 venues that can seat 40000 or more, but 5 of those are primarilly for Aussie Rules/Cricket (which makes them very poor for viewing football).
Sooner or later they will have to build something in Western Aus, South Aus, another dedicated soccer/rugby stadium in Melbourne, and a bigger stadium in Sydney (because the locals are already finding Aussie Stadium to be a bit too small), maybe even an increase in size for Bruce Stadium in our nation's capital -- only a couple of billion dollars... Shouldn't be a problem.

GOOOOO TORONTO FC!


NYC stadium looks good but lacks in location considering its in another state.

Actually, the "another state" thing can be a little misleading. Even though it's in another state it's closer to NYC than the suburban stadiums in Chicago, Dallas, and Denver, Colorado are to their namesake cities.

go afl go.

never realised how big aussie rules was here, compared to other sports around the world.

when perth gets a larger stadium the average overall would rise by 1000 or so.

El universitario can not be re-built as it is a Cultural Heritage of the World. They are even having problems with the renovation, i'm happy that they've finally began to work on it!!!

In the current Olympic Parks thread, Victory claimed that the MCG is used one day out of every three. While that amounts to an amazing 122 event/matchdays a year, I'm not sure I can dispute it.

The interesting question it begs is this: Does that make the 'G' the most prolific outdoor spaorts facility in the world? What kind of usage levels are normal among the other most famous grounds across the world?

NB I've decided to omit Arenas (indoor basketball/hockey/etc. venues), as they are inherently more versatile and there's already been one tedious argument somewhere else about whether the MEN in Manchester is more used than the NEC Arena.

Can anyone verify the MCG's usage with a list of events that take place each year? Only count events where the playing surface is used, so wedding receptions in the Hospitality areas don't count.

Here is my contribution: Old Trafford (football ground), Manchester. '*' denotes a loose average of recent years for types of game where the number is not pre-defined.

19 x Premiership home games

c.5 x Champions' League games (3 x Group Games, usually at least 2 other rounds)

c.3 x Carling Cup games*

c.3 x FA Cup games*

c.3 x Youth Team & Reserve Team fixtures*

c.1 x Pre-Season Friendly*

c.2 x England home fixtures*

c.1 x FA Cup Semi-final*

1 x Rugby League Grand Final

That's 38 matchdays. 38/365 equates to approximately a game every 10.5 days. Since Rod Steward (or was it Status Quo?) ruined the pitch in the summer of '91 which then (to many fans) helped to derail the '91/'92 Championship effort, the club has resisted the urge to cash in on the Stadium Rock circuit. I can only thnk of one concert since - and that was on the eve of Euro '96 as part of those festivities.

OT used to host at least one RL Ashes match every so often, but has since restricted rugby to the Grand Final - and even then with Sir Alex's grudging acceptance. As the stands have grown, the pitch has been more difficult to maintain, so there's been very little enthusiasm to do anything other than play first team fixtures on it. Only England, one FA Youth Cup Final leg and a Champions League final appear to have be welcome additions.

I expect most major venues to get above 50 uses a year, although I'm sure the new Wembley will only have something like 20 as part of its planning restrictions.

Anyone else?

I have to agree with you, At least 2 matches a week is played at Australia's MCG with the Australian Football League, Sometimes more. But thats only during the season, during the off season im not so sure, but i have my money on the MCG, or even Telstra stadium, a lot of games are played there for the National Rugby League.

Lol im not being biased, im just looking at it from my point of view.

The MCG would have been used less this year due to work before and after the Commonwealth Games to insert and then remove the athletics track.

AFL figures are taken from the fixture. http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=fixture&spg=2006

The MCG will see a total of 39 matches for the AFL season, and will host any home finals of Melbourne teams as well as the Grand Final regardless of whether a team from Melbourne actually plays in it. It'd get more matches in a typical year - the MCG was out of action for five rounds of the AFL season.

Telstra Dome been in use for the whole season and had to fill in for the MCG during the Commonwealth Games and will host a total of 54 AFL matches this year.


To the MCG, you still have to add domestic and international cricket tests and one-dayers and an annual soccer friendly. Telstra Dome will also get a few one-dayers and may also be used for rugby and soccer for big games.

Can anyone verify the MCG's usage with a list of events that take place each year? Only count events where the playing surface is used, so wedding receptions in the Hospitality areas don't count.

Well, looking at the MCG website, there are 39 regular-season AFL games at the G (though this is probably fewer than usual since the Commonwealth Games track had to be removed at the end of March so the stadium wasn't available for football for the first few rounds), and there are usually half a dozen finals games played there too. Call it 50 days for football.

In cricket, there's the Boxing Day Test (5 days), two or three ODIs in the VB Series, maybe a 4-day game against a touring side, and five 4-day games in the Pura Cup. Call it 30 days for cricket.

Very rough figures I know, but I reckon the playing surface is in use for at least 80 days a year - rather more than Old Trafford :)

Well the MCG are including State cricket matches in those numbers arent they..meaning many days of 2,000 crowds in a 100,000 capacity venue. That not really "using" the venue

surely the most used would be an american baseball stadium ? (If not counting indoor arenas)

I think its around 75 home games + play offs , and some teams sell-out all games

EADGBE I think most London stadiums have a limit on the number of events they are allowed to stage, I think Wembley, Twickenham, Arsenal and Chelsea do and they should have that, at least the bigger ones.

I think at the moment all NRL clubs in Australia have enough finds for a very long time, considering it's 50% owned by Rupert Murdoch.

The attendances for NRL have been up and down. The more popular and successful clubs like Brisbane Broncos, Canterbury Bulldogs and the cowboys just recently are averageing 25,000+ wit the broncos 35,000+.

Lower teams like south Sydney and NZ warriors are getting just over 10,000.

surely the most used would be an american baseball stadium ? (If not counting indoor arenas)

Rather, one that hosts both baseball and football - are there any such stadia left?

AFL matches are played a lot more than Baseball i think.

Dolphin Stadium?

I'd guess the record could depend on whether you include multi day cricket fixtures as a single events or each day as a separate event, personally I'd go with the latter as most of the tickets are sold on a day by day basis.

AFL matches are played a lot more than Baseball i think.

I hardly think so!!! Each team in the AFL plays 22 games in the regular season - with 16 teams that's 176 games. By contrast, each MLB team plays 162 games - and with 30 teams that's a whopping 2,430 games...

So by my reckoning, Dolphin Stadium will host 81 MLB games a year (more if the Marlins make the playoffs) and 8 NFL games (more if the Dolphins make the playoffs).

Ooh, hang on a sec - RFK Stadium is home to both the Washington Nationals and DC United. That's 81 MLB games and 16 MLS games, plus the occasional soccer international - probably putting it into three figures if either team makes the playoffs...

Rather, one that hosts both baseball and football - are there any such stadia left?

Candlestick Park?

Metrodome?

BTW, I'd count a 4-day cricket match as 4 days. It is after all 'in use' - even if the crowds are poor.

The usage of the MCG is even more astounding to us in England when you consider that it is one of Australia's premier cricketing venues. Here in England, there's an awful lot of opposition to anything that is likely to damage the 'square', let alone the wicket itself. CharlieP, could you ever imagine a rugby match being played at Lord's (which would be the equivalent of AFL at the G)?! The MCC members would be spluttering into their gins with every scrum or tackle.

I agree that the sheer fixture list of baseball makes those venues score well for high-usage. Anyone care to put a number on any of them?

Candlestick Park?

Nope, the Giants have moved to AT&T Park (right next to the Bay).

Metrodome?

Yes, good call.

CharlieP, could you ever imagine a rugby match being played at Lord's (which would be the equivalent of AFL at the G)?! The MCC members would be spluttering into their gins with every scrum or tackle.

Not Lord's, no, but don't forget that The Oval hosted some of England's earliest rugby internationals, and was the venue for the FA Cup Final for around 20 years at the end of the 19th Century...

I agree that the sheer fixture list of baseball makes those venues score well for high-usage. Anyone care to put a number on any of them?

Each MLB franchise plays 81 home games in the regular season.

McAfee @ Oakland? Surely that very specific stand orientation must mean that it hosts both the A's and the Raiders?

The only thing with NFL/MLB is that 8 fixtures on top of 81 isn't that big a deal. RFK seems to be in the lead (for the US) so far with what, 97?

Rugby (and FA Cup Finals) at The Oval 100 years ago is not really equivalent, to my mind because it was so long ago, there was less tradition, fewer games and a not today's pressure to have the surface ideally suited to whatever sport is being played on it. In short, I'd say it would have been far more accepted. I still feel that playing so many AFL games a season at the G and then playing cricket on it is astonishing enough to compare with playing say all Harlequins and England fixtures at Lord's.

It just shows the sense of 'this is my toy' ownership amongst the various sports bodies here that just isn't the same anywhere else in the world. I guess it's the price you pay for being the country that introduces formal, organised sport to the world. Far too rigid in lots of ways.

Allianz Arena: 19th May 2005 -> 13th May 2006: 49 football matches

McAfee @ Oakland? Surely that very specific stand orientation must mean that it hosts both the A's and the Raiders?

The only thing with NFL/MLB is that 8 fixtures on top of 81 isn't that big a deal. RFK seems to be in the lead (for the US) so far with what, 97?

Rugby (and FA Cup Finals) at The Oval 100 years ago is not really equivalent, to my mind because it was so long ago, there was less tradition, fewer games and a not today's pressure to have the surface ideally suited to whatever sport is being played on it. In short, I'd say it would have been far more accepted. I still feel that playing so many AFL games a season at the G and then playing cricket on it is astonishing enough to compare with playing say all Harlequins and England fixtures at Lord's.

It just shows the sense of 'this is my toy' ownership amongst the various sports bodies here that just isn't the same anywhere else in the world. I guess it's the price you pay for being the country that introduces formal, organised sport to the world. Far too rigid in lots of ways.

If other sports were played at english cricket grounds surely they would just use drop-in wickets as has been used in Australia for a decade now.

Anyway, I disagree. I dont like this over-use of multi-shared grounds.

England could easily do as Melbourne.

destroy Lords, the new emirates, Stamford Bridge, White Hart Lane, Upton park and let all them all share Wembley.

then destroy the Oval , the Valley, Craven cottage, selhurst park, Loftus road and let all them all share Twickenham.

Its what they call " ground rationalisation " in Australia and I dont think there is anything good about it except the financial savings. Most MCG events take place in a less than half-full Stadium. terrible. Its a great venue but an awful way to use it.
Historically the australian clubs did have their real home grounds and still try to retain them as training venues to at least pretend to have a home and some identity in a their own location.

I remember that Madison Square Garden was the most profitable followed by Acer Arena (Sydney Superdome).

Anyway, I disagree. I dont like this over-use of multi-shared grounds.

I don't have a problem with ground sharing per se, but it's a bad thing when:

(a) you end up with grounds that are a compromise to suit two sports and end up being a bad solution for both - New Zealand's rugby/cricket grounds are a prime example, as are American stadia such as Candlestick Park. Conversely, using the same stadium for soccer and rugby doesn't present any real problems, though PSG fans probably don't like the extra room at both ends of the Parc des Princes, and hurling and Gaelic football co-exist perfectly well.

(b) a team ends up in a stadium far, far bigger than its support warrants (e.g. Edinburgh at Murrayfield, NRL teams at Telstra Stadium etc.), especially when as you say they've left their more intimate home ground...

New stadium in Kayseri (Turkey) which is now uc.
Will take 2 years to finish.
capacity will be around 32.000
apparently they are also going to include restaurants and a cinema into the stadium.

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/images/news/kayseri_110806_01.jpg
http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/images/news/kayseri_110806_03.jpg

I don't have a problem with ground sharing per se, but it's a bad thing when:

(a) you end up with grounds that are a compromise to suit two sports and end up being a bad solution for both - New Zealand's rugby/cricket grounds are a prime example, as are American stadia such as Candlestick Park. Conversely, using the same stadium for soccer and rugby doesn't present any real problems, though PSG fans probably don't like the extra room at both ends of the Parc des Princes, and hurling and Gaelic football co-exist perfectly well.

(b) a team ends up in a stadium far, far bigger than its support warrants (e.g. Edinburgh at Murrayfield, NRL teams at Telstra Stadium etc.), especially when as you say they've left their more intimate home ground...

Of course Gaelic and Hurling exist perfectly well. The pitch is the same layout, size and the game goalposts are used. At the same time, however, GAA, Rugby and Football, as proposed for the new Northern Ireland multi-sports complext, don't sit together so well, both on the capacity and pitch size side of things. Unlike with an athletics track, for football and rugby at the Maze stadium, there is likely to just be enormous grass verges around the pitch which will make watching the game especially difficult.

And a slight correction - Edinburgh Gunners never really had a "home" as it were. A few years ago, there were only two Scottish rugby superdistricts - Edinburgh and Glasgow, now there are three, including the Border Reivers. Glasgow can't afford to return to Hughenden and Edinburgh Reivers became the Gunners and were basically left with nowhere else to go, due to financial problems. It's a ground sahre based on financial necessity, rather than stadium restrictions.

My vote would have to go to either Celtic Park or Ibrox. Given their size, they are never really used for anything other than football - concerts, internationals, semi-finals and finals are held at Hampden, so they do little more than Celtic and Rangers home games.

I don't have a problem with ground sharing per se, but it's a bad thing when:

(a) you end up with grounds that are a compromise to suit two sports and end up being a bad solution for both - New Zealand's rugby/cricket grounds are a prime example, as are American stadia such as Candlestick Park. Conversely, using the same stadium for soccer and rugby doesn't present any real problems, though PSG fans probably don't like the extra room at both ends of the Parc des Princes, and hurling and Gaelic football co-exist perfectly well.

(b) a team ends up in a stadium far, far bigger than its support warrants (e.g. Edinburgh at Murrayfield, NRL teams at Telstra Stadium etc.), especially when as you say they've left their more intimate home ground...

Well, I think there are many other considerations such as the identity of clubs. Groundsharing has happened in english football, though not on permanent basis. Charlton shared for a long time, 5-10 years, I think and suffered.

Also I think its more difficult to get planning permission for a 100 game-per-year large stadium rather than 25 games,particularly in London.

I like stadiums that fit well into their area on non-match days, ideally including facilties that can be used by the local community, and then in return, the area accepts some reasonable levels of congestion on a limited number of match days.

A big shared venue would probably have to be located more isolated from where people actually live, perhaps outside the city in the middle of a giant car park.

Saben cuando seleccionan los grupos y los equipos?

The San Siro has got to be up there in terms of football use, with all the european games played in addition to the league games of both AC and Inter.

...and by that logic, I suppose the Stadio Olimpico with Roma/Lazio - for the moment, at least. Have Torino moved from the Delle Alpi yet?

Does anyone have the usage rate for the Veltins Arena in Gelsenkirchen? Schalke and Rhine Fire, plus any number of concerts, internationals and a plethora of other events. There are some great pictures somewhere of it hosing a Biathlon event (Nordic skiing and rifle shooting), where the whole playing area was transformed into a snow course.

Saben cuando seleccionan los grupos y los equipos?

Ni idea.. Todavia no se sabe cuales van a ser los equipos invitados

The usage of the MCG is even more astounding to us in England when you consider that it is one of Australia's premier cricketing venues. Here in England, there's an awful lot of opposition to anything that is likely to damage the 'square', let alone the wicket itself. CharlieP, could you ever imagine a rugby match being played at Lord's (which would be the equivalent of AFL at the G)?! The MCC members would be spluttering into their gins with every scrum or tackle.

The MCC (that's the Melbourne Cricket Club I'm referring to here) isn't complaining because their members get reserved seats for every single match (of any sport) at the MCG. That's why all the tickets can sell out and still leave a few thousand empty seats.

go afl go.

never realised how big aussie rules was here, compared to other sports around the world.

when perth gets a larger stadium the average overall would rise by 1000 or so.

And then it's just our friends at Adelaide who need a bigger stadium. And maybe Brisbane when the bandwagon returns. :D

In the past, 5-10 years ago. The Skydome in Toronto hosted MLB(81 games) CFL (9 games) and NBA (42 games). Total of 132 sporting events. Throw in concerts, trade shows and conventions. Over 150 events. The NBA has moved out so the total is lower now.
In 1974-75 Shea stadium in NYC hosted both the NY Mets and Yankees. That total alone is 162 games. Throw in the NY Giants and Jets for 16 games and total is 178 sporting events. That is an amazing 1 game every 2 days! I don't think any stadium World wide has ever managed that!

Giants Stadium here in NYC/NJ hosts 2 NFL teams, 1 MLS team, and many concerts each year, plus other events such as motocross, religious crap, etc....

Giants have 8 home games plus preseason and playoff games.
Jets have 8 home games plus preseason and playoff games
Red Bulls have 16 home games plus playoffs, friendlies, and intenrational games

Several college football and soccer games are held there, as well as marching band contests, and high school soccer and football.

Bon Jovi and Springsteen alone probabvly have 20 days each or some crazy number like that.

And it was Named 2003 #1 TOP-GROSSING STADIUM WORLDWIDE by Billboard magazine

The usage of the MCG is even more astounding to us in England when you consider that it is one of Australia's premier cricketing venues. Here in England, there's an awful lot of opposition to anything that is likely to damage the 'square', let alone the wicket itself. CharlieP, could you ever imagine a rugby match being played at Lord's (which would be the equivalent of AFL at the G)?! The MCC members would be spluttering into their gins with every scrum or tackle.
There's no damage to the cricket square due to playing AFL games because it's not there during the winter months. The MCG use 'drop in' pitches which are curated elsewhere and literally dropped in after the football season. Also as invincible said, the 100k+ MCC members don't mind as they have 25,000 seats reserved for themselves all year round. :bash:

Ni idea.. Todavia no se sabe cuales van a ser los equipos invitados

Mexico y los Estados Unidos?

The San Siro has got to be up there in terms of football use, with all the european games played in addition to the league games of both AC and Inter.

I doubt it gets near the baseball stadia in terms of usage though - each tenant will play 17 games in Serie A, around three(?) Italian Cup games, then let's say for example that one has a good European run and plays 12 home Champions League games and the other just 6. That's still under 60 games a year...

The MCG is able to stage footy and cricket unlike Lord's in London simply because of the weather. I believe the Oval used to stage rugby and soccer a long time ago.

From this time of the year all you need to do to grow lawn is water and it grows in days. We don't get frosts like you do over in Blighty.

What may surprise as well is practically every cricket ground around the country, no matter what level is also used for football in the winter.

The split with the council generally works out to be Oct 1 to March 31st = cricket, April 1st to Sept 30th footy. Mind you, Sept is finals time and most grounds are not used and are able to be prepared for cricket season. Some grounds can be dodgy in the first couple of weeks of the cricket season, but a heavy roller can fix that up.

Dedicated grounds are becoming a little more common, but for most situations it is not necessary. You can split the costs by having co-tennants.

Ill post a few more pics of Kaiserslautern ;)


http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49296-3/IMG_3069.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/49307-3/IMG_3098.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/35678-4/Halle+-1+_Nord.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/35681-4/Halle+-1+Nord.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/35684-4/Halle+-1+-Nord.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/35708-4/Pressepl__tze.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/40918-4/TV_Bereich_Westtrib__ne.JPG
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/35251-4/IMG_7719.JPG

Here you can clearly see how the stadium has been built into the rock of the small mountain its built on:

http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/6692-2/IMG_5439.jpg
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/6683-2/IMG_5436.jpg
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/6677-2/IMG_5434_001.jpg
http://www.1fck.de/gallery/d/6680-2/IMG_5435.jpg #

Mexico y los Estados Unidos?

Mexico creo que ya esta confirmado.. De hecho aparece como equipo oficial en la pagina de la copa ;)... Estados Unidos todavia no se sabe, pero ya manifestaron que quieren participar!

New stadium in Kayseri (Turkey) which is now uc.
Will take 2 years to finish.
capacity will be around 32.000
apparently they are also going to include restaurants and a cinema into the stadium.

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/images/news/kayseri_110806_01.jpg
http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/images/news/kayseri_110806_03.jpg

i've never seen that design before, reminds me of the AZ Cardinals Stadium

Guys you forgot (I think) about the preseason of AFL or the "nab cup". How many matches is that. Plus in the Commonwealth Games it was used for athletics and the opening and closing ceremony. The closing ceremony was absolutly amazing!!! :)

^^ Yeah I know. looks quite similar

In the past, 5-10 years ago. The Skydome in Toronto hosted MLB(81 games) CFL (9 games) and NBA (42 games). Total of 132 sporting events. Throw in concerts, trade shows and conventions. Over 150 events. The NBA has moved out so the total is lower now.
In 1974-75 Shea stadium in NYC hosted both the NY Mets and Yankees. That total alone is 162 games. Throw in the NY Giants and Jets for 16 games and total is 178 sporting events. That is an amazing 1 game every 2 days! I don't think any stadium World wide has ever managed that!

NBA in the Skydome? That's nuts! Did they ever manage to sell out or did they do something with temporary seating like I've seen done with one of the college teams - and I think Seville Athletics Stadium for the Davis Cup(tennis)? Any chance of pictures?

Also, all four main NY MLB/NFL franchises in Shea Stadium in the mid-70's? Why was that? I though Giants Stadium was already built by then. Was Yankee Stadium being renovated? Why else would the Yankees playing at the home of the Mets?

indoor sports arenas take the cake for sure. i am not sure which one has the most events, but as an example, the los angeles staples center hosts games for the lakers, the clippers, the kings(NHL), the Avengers(arena football), and the sparks. I dont think any other single sports arena houses as many franchises, so this one may have the most events. that is 41 laker events , 41 clipper events , 41 sparks events, 41 kings events , 8 avenger games, and then you have concerts and other sports. To show the regularity of those events, using only august to december of this year, the staples center has 19 events including tim mcgraw concert, tool concert, cirque de soleil, WWE wrestling, boxing matches, bull fighting league. The offseason for basketball is likely the busy time for these sorts of events, so guestimate that in september there will be 11 events, and then do that with the other 4 months of NBA offseason and that is 55 events. That would total 41+41+41+8+41+55 or 227 events in one year for the Staples Center, or 1 every 1.5 days.

The Rogers Centre in Toronto hosts 81 Blue Jays games a year, 9 regular season Argonauts games (A CFL team plays 2 more games then an NFL game), 1 preseason Argonaut game, a couple soccer games (last year 2, this year 1) plus concerts, and other shows (Toronto Auto Show, Boat show, etc.)

Oops somebody beat me to the Skydome/Rogers Centre. But I frogot the Rogers Centre will also host an NCAA bowl game in January of next year.

Arenas are not included in this thread, Supertall. Strictly stadiums. Check the very first post.

NBA in the Skydome? That's nuts! Did they ever manage to sell out or did they do something with temporary seating like I've seen done with one of the college teams - and I think Seville Athletics Stadium for the Davis Cup(tennis)? Any chance of pictures?

Also, all four main NY MLB/NFL franchises in Shea Stadium in the mid-70's? Why was that? I though Giants Stadium was already built by then. Was Yankee Stadium being renovated? Why else would the Yankees playing at the home of the Mets?

The stadium used only a portion of the seats. This has actually happened numerous times in the NBA and even the NHL. I know that Detroit Pistons did it in the Pontiac SilverDome and Tampa Bay Lightning Did it in the SunCoast Dome? Usually it is done because it is the only option available.

As for Shea Stadium Hosting all four. You are right Yankee Stadium was being renovated and Giants Stadium was not yet built.

whoops, apologies.

Dolphins Stadium in Miami has to be up there. It has 81 baseball games a year (plus the occasional post season run), 8 NFL regular season games plus 2 or 3 preseason games (plus the occasional post season run), 5 or 6 games for Florida Atlantic University (college football) as well. Plus the Orangle Bowl Game plus the Super Bowl this year. Add to that the occasional concert and this place gets some use.

Edit: This year FAU is only playing one of their games at Dolphins Stadium

Qualcom in SD used to be up there too before the Padres left. They had Baseball (Padres), Football (Chargers), College Football (SD State) & the Holliday Bowl and the occasional Super Bowl.

The Metrodome in Minnesota has the Twins (baseball), Vikings (football) & the Gophers (College Football)

There are some baseball stadiums that occasionally hold over 300 games a year, but I don't think any of them crack the 10,000 mark for capacity.

Fargo, ND, and Hutchinson, KS have fields like this, but their capacities are only 3,000 or so.

This is proposed new stadium of Legia in Warsaw. It's expected to cost 462.5 milion zlotys ( around 115-120 milion Euros ). It will have 35 000 seats, closing roof and 2 500 vehicle underground car park.

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/5/3556/z3556665X.jpg

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/4/3556/z3556664X.jpg

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/9/3556/z3556669X.jpg

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/8/3556/z3556668X.jpg

http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/6/3556/z3556666X.jpg

The decision will be made till end of October and if it is accepted then the start of works will begin in summer-autumn 2007 and end in Late 2009.

I like it!!! specialy from the outside

It looks much bigger than 35.000.
Kind of in the region of the LTU arena in Duesseldorf.
I hope they are going to built this. I like the design.

The stadium used only a portion of the seats. This has actually happened numerous times in the NBA and even the NHL. I know that Detroit Pistons did it in the Pontiac SilverDome and Tampa Bay Lightning Did it in the SunCoast Dome? Usually it is done because it is the only option available.


The Hawks actually own the single game NBA attendence record at 62,046 when they played a game against the Bulls in the Georgia Dome, Im pretty sure it was in the 90s when Jordan was still playing.

Also, in 1989 and 1990, the Metrodome hosted the Twins, Vikings, Golden Gophers, and Timberwolves.

I'm pretty sure that I saw an All-Star game at the Georgia Dome on TV quite a few years ago. There was a crowd of over 35,000, so I knew it wasn't in a traditional arena.

Is it HBM from the Netherlands?
Well, I'm not sure they're from Holland, but yes that's the company. Further information about the new arena: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=386186

The most used stadium in the USA has to be Giants Stadium. But if you can prove me wrong please do so.

The most used stadium in the USA has to be Giants Stadium. But if you can prove me wrong please do so.
How about you first prove yourself right...

Giants stadium?

what maybe 24 NFL games per year...

what else?

It wouldn't even be the most used in NY/NJ, let alone the USA.

JJB Stadium, Wigan:

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/united_kingdom/england/north_west/wigan_jjb1.jpg

Wigan Athletic (football):

19 x Premiership games
2 x Carling Cup*
2 x FA Cup*
2 x Pre-season friendlies*

Wigan Warriors (rugby league):

14 x Super League games
3 x Challenge Cup*
1 x Pre-season friendlies

Great Britain Lions (rugby league):

1 x Tri-Nations game

= 44 fixtures.

Still not a lot for a ground with two tenants. I'm sure the groundsman would disagree, though!

Giants stadium?

what maybe 24 NFL games per year...

what else?

It wouldn't even be the most used in NY/NJ, let alone the USA.


Giants Stadium here in NYC/NJ hosts 2 NFL teams, 1 MLS team, and many concerts each year, plus other events such as motocross, religious crap, etc....

Giants have 8 home games plus preseason and playoff games.
Jets have 8 home games plus preseason and playoff games
Red Bulls have 16 home games plus playoffs, friendlies, and intenrational games

Several college football and soccer games are held there, as well as marching band contests, and high school soccer and football.

Bon Jovi and Springsteen alone probabvly have 20 days each or some crazy number like that.

And it was Named 2003 #1 TOP-GROSSING STADIUM WORLDWIDE by Billboard magazine


I could be wrong, but this is a heavily used venue. I'm not sure any other NFL stadium is used as much as this one is.

I'm still not buying it. Just about any baseball park at any level would still have more events than Giants Stadium. The Oakland stadium even hosts both sports!

Yo habia leido en el periodico el tiempo hace un año "y que" iban a invitar a Italia, Portugal y España.... eso lo dudo mucho, pa mi q fue un rumor ahi!

Yo tambien habia leido eso. Pero no creo que lo hagan debido al tema de que es copa America y no todos los equipos de America participan para que vengan a invitar a Italia, España y Portugal que son de Europa.. No lo creo conveniente! Deberian hacer la copa con todos los paises de America y ya!

No sean huevones y hablen en ingles. Sino vayanse a algun foro Venezolano de mala muerte, la gracia de Skyscrapercity es que gente de todas partes del mundo puede hablar de arquitectura sin que nigun idiota se ponga a hablar en castellano o en algun idioma distinto al ingles, gracias a lo cual gente de toda America, Asia, Oceania y el Medio Oriente, ademas claro de Africa y Europa, puede entender el contenido aqui expresado.

^^^ I basically asked them to speak in English so that everyone can understand what they're talking about.

I think that the Copa America should be exclusively for American teams, otherwise it would completely loose it's meaning.

True true, that and they'd easily win the thing...

Giants Stadium Calendar (http://www.stayinthemeadowlands.com/events/year.php?cid=219&catid=&m=11&y=2006). The darker boxes are days with events.

More than I thought, but still not the winner. For instance, September has 10 occupied days, but most other months are lower than that. I assume we aren't counting the flea market.

Zenit's new home :shock:
62.167
the winner project
http://www.fc-zenit.ru/images/stadium/new_space_1.jpg

http://www.fc-zenit.ru/images/stadium/new_space_2.jpg

the other ones
http://www.fc-zenit.ru/info/page.phtml?id=304

Zenit who? St Petrusburg? nice stadium by the way, it's massive!

are there other Zenits??!! :D
yes
St. Petersburg

sounds a bit alien doesn't (if you say it a couple of times fast) Wasn't there something simular in Zagred or something, or is the sun burning on my head again?
ZenitzenitzenitzenitZenitzenitzenitzenitZenitzenitzenitzenitZenitzenitzenitzenitZenitzenitzenitzenit!!!!!!

Zenith is Russian for star if I'm not mistaken. Nothing alien about it. skaP187 on the other hand sounds like a meteorite....

Zenit/Star/Alien/Meteorite... do I need say more...
I like the city though so GO ZENIT!!!

the other ones
http://www.fc-zenit.ru/info/page.phtml?id=304


I would have liked to see this one being built

http://www.fc-zenit.ru/images/stadium/new_mos_2.jpg

some updated pics from the stadium in Magdeburg uc:

http://www.stadion-magdeburg.de/9227/images/Aussichtsturm-2-07.08.06_001.JPG
http://www.stadion-magdeburg.de/9227/images/Stadion-03-01.08.2006.JPG
http://www.stadion-magdeburg.de/9227/images/stadion1-14.08.06.JPG
http://www.stadion-magdeburg.de/9227/images/Stadion-15-17.08.2006.JPG
http://www.stadion-magdeburg.de/9227/images/Stadion-21-17.08.2006.JPG
http://www.stadion-magdeburg.de/9227/images/Stadion-22-17.08.2006.JPG

Here's pictures of winner project of Zenit's stadium (its are big to post at forum so click on the links to see its).

http://www.gorzakaz.org/acts/JP1.jpg
http://www.gorzakaz.org/acts/JP2.jpg
http://www.gorzakaz.org/acts/JP3.jpg
http://www.gorzakaz.org/acts/JP4.jpg

^^ It seems to have a retractable field?
How sure is it that its going to be built that way?

new stadium for Partizan Belgrade, the tearing down of current stadium will happen at the end of this season:

(35 000 seats)
http://www.x-build.net/4images/data/media/1/pfc4.jpg

http://www.x-build.net/4images/data/media/1/pfc3.jpg

http://www.x-build.net/4images/data/media/1/pfc2.jpg

http://www.x-build.net/4images/data/media/1/pfc1.jpg

wow that looks nice!

its looks nice in the pics but thats about it i reckon

Good Question :D

Yo tambien habia leido eso. Pero no creo que lo hagan debido al tema de que es copa America y no todos los equipos de America participan para que vengan a invitar a Italia, España y Portugal que son de Europa.. No lo creo conveniente! Deberian hacer la copa con todos los paises de America y ya!

All team of America!!!!

I dislike stadiums with superdome roofs and so on .A new stadium should combine being modern but still being just a football stadium . Another aspect is of course the atmosphere. In a recent poll where they questioned soccer players from all 18 german Bundesliga clubs they quoted Hamburgs AOL Arena the favourite one.

that is quite simply, bollocks

to you maybe, but to me Hampden in king; only one dissapointment, it's no longer 140 000

---

Hampden is a magnificant stadium only let down by its capacity.
I think Ibrox Stadium is an even beautiful stadium but is let down by the team that play in it. :scouserd:

PS: St James is a horrible looking stadium!

would be great for Hawaii

any new photos??

It depends what format they go with. All one country, or split?

If split, they can do korea for asian games, Mexico for north america games, Dominican Republic for Latin American games, and Venezuela for the remaining ones.

And then the semis and finals will probably happen in the US again. How about New York or Boston this time?

Hawaii doesnt make sense. Its inconvenient for everyone time wise.

This thread is two months old, I'm not sure why that guy bumped it.

Hawaii decided to revert Aloha Stadium to all-football from now on, so it's definitely not going to happen.

I hope they include more countires for the WBC, like Nicaragua.

The Wall Stadium is one of a kind, unique in form, emerged from green shallow dune. The slanted colossal structure dominates on the surrounding areas by its solid form and height at the same serving as the main stand for spectators. Moreover the green dune serves as parking areas for spectators and canopy on the top of the stands.

The football playfield punctures the serene green dune at centre thus exposing the nature of the structure.

A new air conditioning system would be used in this open stadium so if I'm not mistaken it going to be the first opened air conditioning stadium in the world

Number of floors: B+G+4
Height: 60m
Plot area: 200,000sqm
Total built-up area: 233,775
Designed: MZ & Partners
Location:the state of Qatar, Doha.


www.mzandpartners.com

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http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1223/cam2nb6.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6628/allsmallinteriorcopy5zc5.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3720/intcam2copyvj8.jpg
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3386/dfvx8.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7497/cam3kr2.jpg
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5413/intcam1copyva6.jpg
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1341/generalvf3.jpg
:) .

Wierd but not bad

Can't see it actually being built. At least in the current form. Just seems a bit odd and definitely too much green!

"Wierd" that's why i like this project :)

Can't see it actually being built. At least in the current form. Just seems a bit odd and definitely too much green!
you will see it in real life in few years coz it's been approved :scouserd: and nothing imposible in architecture :wave:

Capacity?

weird....
but it kicks ass.....

First impression:

One of the best stadium designs I've seen... Ever.

This is really innovative, if not in function then at least in form. I really like the renderings.

What would the capacity be with this design?

the Matrix has you..

Capacity?
as far as i know , it's around 10 000 :)

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1341/generalvf3.jpg
:) .

Why would you place seats facing a wall instead of the playing field....

Because It's called the Wall stadium DERR! :jk:

Why would you place seats facing a wall instead of the playing field....
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
I believe this render is old one hehehehe
Some few details are being changed and if you notice, the height of the green dune is increased in the elevation render compared to the first render that I posted, so these chairs won't be set beside the wall , hopefully not :scouserd:

I have to agree with Köbtke, one of the best in terms of design. Very impressive, classy, futuristic, clean design.

I can se some similarities with the new Lo Stadio di Venezia (http://www.stadiumguide.com/venezia.htm) stadium in Italy, wich also is a nice stadium..

Great! Especially becouse of the hot temperatures around the gulf, indoor stadiums is a good idea. So that way its good.

But the design of the seats behind the goals are awful, the people sitting to thre right/left cant se half the pitch :P. I guess it wont be built like that tough.

Great! Especially becouse of the hot temperatures around the gulf, indoor stadiums is a good idea. So that way its good.

But the design of the seats behind the goals are awful, the people sitting to thre right/left cant se half the pitch :P. I guess it wont be built like that tough.

It's not indoor stadium. the Air conditioning system ,designed by a German company, will work in open space I know it sound like waste for energy but here in the Gulf Countries ,people like new staff and show-off .

That's certainly an avant-garde stadium!
I like it very much! :)

The more I look at it, the more I flipp, pfffff I don't know if I like it or not... (yep I'll sleep a night on it) If you smoke a big fat ass one and then look at it, damn I think you'll go out or will have the best trip you'll ever have, yeah matrix I guess!

I think its modern and unique, and for now Qatar doesnt need large stadium, so it will be in use for some time if everything works out. Relatively stylisticly pure throughout the design, creds for that.

Millenial:

Ok sry, of course it isnt indoor :P.

This is quite possibly the best stadium... EVER!!!

:grouphug:

New Zealand is considering building a new stadium in Auckland for the 2011 Rugby World Cup:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/5341224.stm

wut other facilities we can give wid football stadium plus wut other facilites can be give wid it

Because It's called the Wall stadium DERR! :jk:

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL , good one dude :)

here of new stadium which will be built in Algeria from here 2009

new stadium around algiers
http://www.dropshots.com/photos/109511/20060925/125457.jpg http://www.dropshots.com/photos/109511/20060925/125221.jpg


new complexe olympique in oran
http://www.dropshots.com/photos/109511/20060925/131751.jpghttp://www.dropshots.com/photos/109511/20060925/131856.jpg http://www.dropshots.com/photos/109511/20060925/131824.jpg

room polyvalante (algiers)
http://www.dropshots.com/photos/109511/20060925/132623.jpghttp://www.dropshots.com/photos/109511/20060925/132632.jpg http://www.dropshots.com/photos/109511/20060925/132641.jpg

stadium 5 juillet 80 000 places
http://mouloudia.org/photos/2005/champ/vs_usma/23.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/fr/thumb/3/3e/Finalmcausma.JPG/800px-Finalmcausma.JPG http://denbi.skyblog.com/pics/388926269.jpg

stadium omar hamadi
http://denbi.skyblog.com/pics/175147708.jpg
http://denbi.skyblog.com/pics/373026404.jpg


stadium hamed zabana in oran 60 000 places
http://hlm.de.gambetta.oran.free.fr/photos/oran_ramonico/stade_oran.jpg

stadium 19 may in annaba 65 000 place
http://www.dzfoot.com/clubs/img/stade_annaba_19juin.jpg

stadium 8 may in setif 65 000 places
http://www.dzfoot.com/clubs/img/stade_setif_8mai45.jpg

Vey nice projects

those new stadiums look very cool...

the first one looks cool. Does the "stadium 5 juillet" hold 80 000 people? cos if it does, just imagine when the bowl is complete! :eek2:

According to World Stadiums it is 66,000, with the ones in Oran and Annaba both holding 50,000. It puts the rather small looking stadium in Setif at 20,000 (a huge difference from the 65,000 claimed by the topic opener).

the first one looks cool. Does the "stadium 5 juillet" hold 80 000 people? cos if it does, just imagine when the bowl is complete! :eek2:

looks at and levels you!!!
it is derby match usma vs mca
is very crazy !!!
how Rio of janeiro has!!! with the maracana!!!


http://www.dzfoot.com/videos/mcausma201005.wmv

http://www.dzfoot.com/videos/usmamca06.wmv

where can i found out more about the first rendering you posted?

According to World Stadiums it is 66,000, with the ones in Oran and Annaba both holding 50,000. It puts the rather small looking stadium in Setif at 20,000 (a huge difference from the 65,000 claimed by the topic opener).

in 2003 at the time of the derby mca-usma the stage OF July 5 full A cracks!!! 99.000 person present, the FIFA has rapeler has the order the federation and the Algerian league of football for quil puts the world stage at the standards, it fu to close during a temp for restoration and to bring back exactly it 75.000 place asise has but the stage can contain 80.000 upright and assi aujourdhui, that of annaba and oran 60.000 places setif more than 45.000 place blida 55.000 places…

Now that the deadline for submissions has closed, the rugby unions of Arabian Gulf, Australia, Kenya, Netherlands, Russia, South Africa and USA are all in the running to host the 2009 Rugby World Cup Sevens.

An Arabian Gulf tournament would unquestionably be in Dubai, and a Kenyan one in Nairobi, but I don't know what the host cities would be under the other bids...

Advances - September 2006

MERIDA STADIUM
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer.JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(2).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(3).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(5).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(6).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(1).JPG

"CACHAMAY" STADIUM
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/visita-cachamay%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/visita-cachamay%20(5).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/visita-cachamay%20(6).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/visita-cachamay%20(7).JPG

JUANA "LA AVANZADORA" STADIUM
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0633.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0849.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0856.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0838.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0840.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0841.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0853.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0853.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0605.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0606.JPG

PUERTO LA CRUZ STADIUM
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce.JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(1).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(2).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(3).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(5).JPG

"PACHENCHO ROMERO" STADIUM
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mara%20(2).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mara%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mara%20(3).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mara%20(6).JPG
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/3948/zu5901g204eg8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3688/zu5901g205ai3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

"PUEBLO NUEVO" STADIUM
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/ta.JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/ta%20(2).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/ta%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/ta%20(6).JPG
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8665/vistatachiracg5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is how the stadiums look by now
http://www.venezuela2007.com/top4.jpg



ESTADIO METROPOLITANO DE MERIDA

PROYECTO

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/6340/1ni5.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5913/2xu8.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/32/3te2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

AVANCES

http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer.JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(2).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(3).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(5).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(6).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mer%20(1).JPG
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8795/mer5901g2014zn6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

ESTADIO CACHAMAY - Pto. Ordaz

PROYECTO

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/387/guayanab2kz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6419/guayanabaj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5570/guayanab4wh4.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3311/guayanab5pt8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

AVANCES

http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/visita-cachamay%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/visita-cachamay%20(5).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/visita-cachamay%20(6).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/visita-cachamay%20(7).JPG


ESTADIO JUANA "LA AVANZADORA" - Maturin

PROYECTO

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8782/monagasqd0.gif (http://imageshack.us)

AVANCES

http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0633.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0849.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0856.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0838.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0840.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0841.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0853.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0853.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0605.JPG
http://www.asivaelestadio.com/octubre/100_0606.JPG


ESTADIO JOSE ANTONIO ANZOATEGUI - Pto La Cruz

PROYECTO

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7046/4fb4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

AVANCES

http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce.JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(1).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(2).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(3).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/barce%20(5).JPG

ESTADIO "PACHENCHO ROMERO" - Maracaibo

AVANCES

http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mara%20(2).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mara%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mara%20(3).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/mara%20(6).JPG
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/3948/zu5901g204eg8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3688/zu5901g205ai3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

ESTADIO "PUEBLO NUEVO" - San Cristobal

PROYECTO

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/296/pueblonuevoaq0ww3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

AVANCES

http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/ta.JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/ta%20(2).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/ta%20(4).JPG
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/visita_conmebol/ta%20(6).JPG
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8665/vistatachiracg5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

ESTADIO MONUMENTAL DE BARQUISIMETO

AVANCES

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7527/la07g1tw2.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2255/la07g2wj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1816/la07g5kh4.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9245/la07g6fo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6280/la07g8te0.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8128/la07g9cq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1007/la07g11il9.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1777/la07g12ev6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7592/la07g16fv6.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7048/la07g13pb8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1929/la07g14nr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

ESTADIO AGUSTIN TOVAR "LA CAROLINA" - Barinas

PROYECTO

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1067/07maquetaaqr5.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/489/08maquetaaij3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

AVANCES

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/7016/ba12g01ii5.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3742/ba12g03ul3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3605/ba12g06nq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4408/ba12g07ld7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1545/ba4901g2014cr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7550/ba4901g2015jn9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

ESTADIO OLIMPICO DE LA UCV - Caracas

AVANCES

http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/copa/caracas/ca5901g%20(2).jpg http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/copa/caracas/ca5901g.jpg
http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/copa/caracas/ca5901g%20(3).jpg http://www.gerproinca.com.ve/copa/caracas/ca5901g%20(6).jpg

The following list from Pollstar Magazine list the top grossing arenas world wide. The figures are for all events hosted by the arenas excluding professional sports. IE, No hockey basketball arena football etc.
The list basically counts concerts, tradeshows, conventions etc.

I am particularily proud of #52, Saskatoon. At 11 300 seats it is one of the smaller arenas on the list and in a city of 230 000 one of the smaller cities on the list.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/879/13580250vt4.gif

Oh c'mon MSG isn't THAT great!

No it isn't but it has a shit load of events each year. That's what puts it near the top.

Pffft! Hey the ACC is at 11!

Yeah but look at Montreal! #4

So why don't professional sports count? Between preseason and regular season the ACC hosts around 100 NHL and NBA games alone, yearly.

They eliminated professional sports to level the field. The list is put out by an entertainment managment firm. So they are obviously looking at it from a different view. Look at MSG they host NBA and NHL all games soldout, and yet they still have other events which bring in huge numbers!

Yeah but look at Montreal! #4

Never been to the Bell Centre, I'm sure its a nice place though.

Go Manchester!!!! Top stuff!!

...one of the shortest posts I've ever made... :D

:cheers:

estan avanzadas las obras de algunos

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/166/1001273of7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9892/17yy7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1014/1gm0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2641/2ch1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2588/3wy4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2003/4cu8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2614/5rj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8144/6af2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/533/7pf9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1240/8ju5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9217/9nm0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8593/10vr2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9366/11id9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2166/12pn9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5615/13gu0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2604/14vx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/8738/15yj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3487/16bj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

An idiotic poll really. So MSG and the other arenas which stage pro sports every other night also are unavailable that day for trade shows.

Never ceases to amaze how some organizations twist facts and figures to suit their own purposes to push something.

Only one German Arena? That list is a joke.

^^ I would have added Kolnarena

An idiotic poll really. So MSG and the other arenas which stage pro sports every other night also are unavailable that day for trade shows.

Never ceases to amaze how some organizations twist facts and figures to suit their own purposes to push something.

Not really a poll. These are actual numbers of attendees for non sporting events. Despite the fact that MSG is so busy with sports events it is still #2 so obviously it is used quite frequently. #75 on the list is used for quite a few sporting events as well. Mainly hockey. But it has more open days than MSG. So why isn't it higher?

YAY! The JLC (John Labatt Centre) was 45th! Incredible. Lots of good venues up there.

The Bell centre deserves to be all the way up there. The acoustic is very good for a hockey arena, the seats are way closer to the action than at most modern arenas even when you're pretty high up in the stands.

Montreal Rocks!

Horrible list for so many reasons.

This list is horrible? Why? I think it is what it is. A list for people in the entertainment industry. These are the top 75 arenas last year in terms of attendance for nonsporting events. Plain and simple.

Manchester does it again, biggest league ground in the country and busiest arena by quite away.