We sing 'Flower Of Scotland' at EVERY game. That's the difference. You sing dambusters to annoy Germans.

You can't even admit that England fans singing '2 world wars and 1 world cup'/'dambusters' etc is embarrassing. Do you think these are acceptable songs 60/87 years after the wars ended, when a World Cup is being played in Germany? Nobody else will be singing these types of songs, everybody else has moved on.

The fact that you think this is acceptable behaviour shows you're just like the rest of the loud mouthed, yobbish England fans. You simply don't understand why nobody likes England.

Listen and learn from other fans, it's for your own good. Show some humility, stop being aggressive and people will start to accept you into the world of football. If you go to the World Cup - watch the Swedish fans and you will learn how to act in a commendable, decent manner.

We sing 'Flower Of Scotland' at EVERY game. That's the difference. You sing dambusters to annoy Germans.

I don't sing Dambusters at all, as it happens. And Scottish fans sing Flower of Scotland ten times more often when they play England than when they play any other country. I don't suppose that that is entirely a coincidence. As I said, you're a hypocrite.

You can't even admit that England fans singing '2 world wars and 1 world cup'/'dambusters' etc is embarrassing. Do you think these are acceptable songs 60/87 years after the wars ended, when a World Cup is being played in Germany? Nobody else will be singing these types of songs, everybody else has moved on.

Excuse me, but when did you see me justifying England fans singing Dambusters? I didn't. It happens. But I don't participate. Every country's fans sings rude songs about certain other countries. It would be a nonsense to claim otherwise. For English fans, it's Germany. For Scottish and Argentinian fans, it's England. You claim to be a Glasgow Rangers fan. Are you trying to tell me that Celtic and Rangers fans never sing (incredibly offensive) songs about the other? You know very well that they do. Well, there you have it. Football fans are like that. They have their pantomime villains and they sing songs about them. Stop being such a Mary Poppins and trying to make out that it is only the English who do it.

The fact that you think this is acceptable behaviour shows you're just like the rest of the loud mouthed, yobbish England fans. You simply don't understand why nobody likes England.

Yawn. I've already told you that I don't participate. And you are a bigot, simply out to agitate hatred. You're a very sad and bitter individual.

Listen and learn from other fans, it's for your own good. Show some humility, stop being aggressive and people will start to accept you into the world of football. If you go to the World Cup - watch the Swedish fans and you will learn how to act in a commendable, decent manner.

I don't need lessons in decent behaviour, thanks. You, on the other hand, do.

I personally don't sing either dambusters/great escape either but the fact their sung when England play nations other than Germany IMHO shows its based more on national pride rather than dislike for the Germans much like Flower of Scotland. You'll get the small minority who take things further but thats hardly unique to the English. One thing you won't get anymore is masses of racist chanting which sadly is still alive and well elsewhere.

I'm a bigot? Explain that one? Do you know what bigot means?


"And Scottish fans sing Flower of Scotland ten times more often when they play England than when they play any other country"


Hahahahaha, rubbish, we have only played England once at Hampden in the last 15 years. We always sing it loud and proud. We sing it as loud as we can at every game, so unless we all sneaked in megaphones, it would be impossible to sing it any louder.

Scotland makes up less than 10% of the UK population, but in both wars, Scottish soldiers made up 20% of the British army. So per head of population, we suffered more than England during the wars. So how come we don't sing dambusters etc?

We don't because we have moved on. There is nothing wrong with rivalry, but songs mocking the deaths of millions of Germans is unacceptable, especially when the World Cup is in Germany. The world has moved on, but your fans have been left behind and are living in the past.

Listen and learn. Stop arguing and simply listen to those that are trying to help you. Can't you see that all the non English fans on the board are trying to show you what makes a good fan? Just listen to them, that's all it takes.

The world has moved on, but your fans have been left behind and are living in the past.

Erm.......so the 'Remember Bannockburn 1314' flags you see at scottish games are an example of letting go of the past?

And how do you explain the chanting of 'Stand up if you hate England' or is that just your way of being friendly?

Scotland makes up less than 10% of the UK population, but in both wars, Scottish soldiers made up 20% of the British army. So per head of population, we suffered more than England during the wars. So how come we don't sing dambusters etc?

I'd guess mainly because they don't provide the same seperate identy from the rest of the union that the likes of Flower of Scotland does. The English as the majority are generally less interested in differentiating themselves from Britan as a whole.

Erm.......so the 'Remember Bannockburn 1314' flags you see at scottish games are an example of letting go of the past?

And how do you explain the chanting of 'Stand up if you hate England' or is that just your way of being friendly?


I have never seen a 'Remember Bannockburn 1314' flag at a Scotland game. I'm sure there are a few, but hardly any. It's a harmless flag anyway. Bannockburn was so long ago that it cannot offend anybody.

'Stand up if you hate England' is rivalry. You don't see the Scotland fans mocking the London Blitz. That would be the equivalent of England fans singing the 'Dambusters' to the German fans. We know where to draw the line.

Scotland fans aren't perfect anyway. But they are a hundred times better than England fans.

There is a simple test. Ask any citizen in any European country who they would rather have visit their city. Every single one of them will tell you that they would rather have Scotland fans than England fans. Everybody in Europe will tell you that Scotland fans are infinitely more friendly and sociable.

Just ask the people who live in Nuremberg, Cologne and Frankfurt. Out of all the 32 teams, can you guess which is the last one they wanted in their cities? I will give you a clue, it begins with E.

I'm a bigot? Explain that one? Do you know what bigot means?

Do you know what bigot means? You are bigoted regarding anything to do with the English. You are incapable of objectivity. Instead you allow your mind to be clouded by chip-on-shoulder bitterness. You are clearly unreasonably prejudiced about anything the English do or say, which renders any comments you make about them worthless to anyone but yourself.

Scotland makes up less than 10% of the UK population, but in both wars, Scottish soldiers made up 20% of the British army. So per head of population, we suffered more than England during the wars.

Yawn. We're not going to have a discussion about history. Go talk to someone who's interested. And you have the nerve to call the English arrogant! Jeez!

There is nothing wrong with rivalry, but songs mocking the deaths of millions of Germans is unacceptable

What songs would those be? It's hysterical. You're making it up as you go along! For your information, the Dambusters theme was about an event which killed millions of............cubic metres of resevoir space. Duh!

The world has moved on, but your fans have been left behind and are living in the past.

But not the Scots, eh? Bannockburn was 691 years ago and yet, in your words, you still sing Flower Of Scotland "as loud as you can at every game". I suppose it's one rule for you Scots and another for the English? Besides, name me a country whose people don't sing songs about famous military victories in the past. I bet you can't.

Listen and learn. Stop arguing and simply listen to those that are trying to help you. Can't you see that all the non English fans on the board are trying to show you what makes a good fan? Just listen to them, that's all it takes.

I repeat. I don't need lessons in good behaviour. You do.

You don't see the Scotland fans mocking the London Blitz. That would be the equivalent of England fans singing the 'Dambusters' to the German fans. We know where to draw the line.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Of all the ridiculous things you have written, this has to be the funniest of the lot. How monumentally thick do you have to be to compare the bombing of strategically important dams in the industrial heartland upon which wartime Germany depended with the senseless and strategically stupid blitz on English cities, in which over 40,000 people died?

In reality, there were deaths as a result of the bombings. That happens in war. The majority of the victims were actually Ukrainian POW's who were being held just below one of the dams. But the vast majority of people who sing about the Dambusters only know the film. And in the film, there are very few deaths on either side. So those who sing the song are only singing a song about the triumph of British ingenuity (Barnes Wallaces' bouncing bombs) and courage (the pilots and crew of the Lancaster bombers) over the enemy. They are not gloating over anyone's death.

You did more than just generalize. You wilfully misrepresented what I had written and fabricated allegations.

Hey, take it easy it's YOU that started complaining about something as stupid as the size of the stadiums that England is going to compete in. What is sad is that when England loses, there is always an excuse. I'm sick and tired of it. Just act like regular people and say that your teams weren't good enough or lucky enough to win. Making excuses is the worst thing that a person could do.

But why shouldn't we complain? If you go to a restaurant and receive terrible service or terrible food, do you not complain? If you don't highlight the inadequacies of that restaurant's product, how is that restaurant ever to improve? That analogy applies to every business or institution on the face of the planet.

No I don't I go there and if I don't like the food or service I don't complain and make a stupid scene, I say thank you at the end and never go back. There are another thousand restaurants in my city that I could go to, so why should I complain if luck has it and I don't like a few of them. That's called being courtious, I guess no one taught you that.

I read those Olympic threads for long enough to see that Greek people are equally as capable of arrogance as the English or any other nation on earth. It is not a uniquely English characteristic.

Defending something that you believe in is not being arrogant. The Greeks in those forums thought that the media made them the villains and I believe that many misinformed people came and bashed the Athens Olympics because of what the media said. They made a swimming pool without a roof the biggest deal of the Olympics when I know that during the Summer months in Athens, It won't matter. The media made it sound like their athletes couldn't swim because they would sweat too much in the water because it was 35 degrees outside. Give me a break.

When I think of Scotland I think:
Being Mean.
Scottish Ancestry.
Kilts and Tartan.
Bagpipes.
Language.
Whisky.
Pubs.
Haggis.
Loch Ness Monster.
The Weather.
Somehow Football does not come to mind, oh well. Carry on. :)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Of all the ridiculous things you have written, this has to be the funniest of the lot. How monumentally thick do you have to be to compare the bombing of strategically important dams in the industrial heartland upon which wartime Germany depended with the senseless and strategically stupid blitz on English cities, in which over 40,000 people died?
Sorry JimB but you're posting absolutely BULLSHIT !!!

I think most germans know more about german-warcrimes than you do know about allied-warcrimes !

Off course bombing english cities is absolutely inexcusable, but so is the bombing of german cities.

[QUOTE]Hey, take it easy it's YOU that started complaining about something as stupid as the size of the stadiums that England is going to compete in.

I didn't complain merely for the sake of it. I started what I hoped would be a serious discussion about FIFA and their flawed policy with regards to stadium allocation. Please don't tell me that you think that it is a good and clever thing that the seeds in group B will play ALL their group games at small stadiums while the other (supposedly smaller) teams in the group will play at least one or two games in big stadiums. Well? Surely FIFA have got this badly wrong? No one with any sense can possibly disagree. Therefore it was perfectly legitimate to start a discsussion on the subject.

What is sad is that when England loses, there is always an excuse. I'm sick and tired of it. Just act like regular people and say that your teams weren't good enough or lucky enough to win. Making excuses is the worst thing that a person could do.

What is the relevance of saying something like that? We're not talking about results. The World Cup is still six months away. No one is making excuses. I'm simply talking about doing the fairest thing for genuine football fans. So please stay on topic.

if I don't like the food or service I don't complain and make a stupid scene, I say thank you at the end and never go back. There are another thousand restaurants in my city that I could go to, so why should I complain if luck has it and I don't like a few of them. That's called being courtious, I guess no one taught you that.

There's nothing discourteous about complaining, provided you do it in the correct manner. In fact, it's far more courteous and mature to complain than it is to sulk silently and then never give people a second chance to prove themselves. For all you know, the manager or owner of that restaurant / hotel / shop / institution could be completely unaware of things that are going wrong and they will be highly appreciative that you have taken the time to bring it to their attention in a civilized manner rather than them never finding out but suddenly finding themselves out of business / in trouble. That's why some businesses in England will have a little sign on a counter or window saying, "If you're happy with our service / product, please tell others. If you're unhappy with our service / product, please tell us." People want to know when they're doing things wrong - simply because they want to put them right. But I guess that you never thought about that.

Defending something that you believe in is not being arrogant. The Greeks in those forums thought that the media made them the villains and I believe that many misinformed people came and bashed the Athens Olympics because of what the media said. They made a swimming pool without a roof the biggest deal of the Olympics when I know that during the Summer months in Athens, It won't matter. The media made it sound like their athletes couldn't swim because they would sweat too much in the water because it was 35 degrees outside. Give me a break.

I'm not getting into the specifics of those Olympic threads because they were endlessly repetitive and tiresome. I will only repeat that the attitude of some of the Greeks posting on those threads was arrogant in the extreme - particularly with regard to their cultural heritage and the comparative lack of cultural heritage of other nations. I'm not trying to suggest that all Greeks are arrogant or that Greeks are any more arrogant than other nationalities. They're not. They're no better and no worse than anyone else. I only mentioned it as a counterpoint to your wildly generalized and inaccurate accusations about the arrogance of the English.

Sorry JimB but you're posting absolutely BULLSHIT !!!

I think most germans know more about german-warcrimes than you do know about allied-warcrimes !

Off course bombing english cities is absolutely inexcusable, but so is the bombing of german cities.

Oh Lord! Here we go again! Wilful misrepresentation of what I wrote!

1. I wasn't saying that the blitz was a war crime. I said that it was "senseless and strategically stupid". Had the luftwaffe not been diverted, by Hitler's warped thinking, into bombing London and other cities, and had it instead continued to target all the RAF bases along the south coast of England, then the RAF would have been on its knees within a matter of weeks and the Luftwaffe would have had control of the skies and the German navy could have safely launched an armada on England without threat from the skies.

2. I am perfectly aware, thank you very much, of the bombing of German cities by the allies - and particularly the bombings of Dresden and Cologne. And I believe them to be equally as senseless and strategically stupid (particularly since there was virtually nothing of strategic value in Dresden) as the bombings of English cities by the luftwaffe.

So please stop accusing me of things that I have not written!

Thank you!

Arrrrggghhh!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Of all the ridiculous things you have written, this has to be the funniest of the lot. How monumentally thick do you have to be to compare the bombing of strategically important dams in the industrial heartland upon which wartime Germany depended with the senseless and strategically stupid blitz on English cities, in which over 40,000 people died?

In reality, there were deaths as a result of the bombings. That happens in war. The majority of the victims were actually Ukrainian POW's who were being held just below one of the dams. But the vast majority of people who sing about the Dambusters only know the film. And in the film, there are very few deaths on either side. So those who sing the song are only singing a song about the triumph of British ingenuity (Barnes Wallaces' bouncing bombs) and courage (the pilots and crew of the Lancaster bombers) over the enemy. They are not gloating over anyone's death.

You missed the point - Singing songs about the London Blitz would be mocking the deaths of Englishmen. Just like singing 'dambusters/2 world wars and 1 world cup/etc' is sung to mock the fact that Germany lost the war and millions of Germans died in the process.

Are you trying to say that England fans sing Dambusters as a tribute to Operation Chastise and Barnes Wallis?

No. Of course they don't. They sing it to wind up Germans because Germany lost World War 2.

You are not fooling anybody here. Most English fans wouldn't have a clue who Barnes Wallis was.

I have seen in action England fans singing these songs. They are the types of morons you see getting totally drunk every weekend in British city centres. Loud mouthed lager louts that civilised people cannot stand. They are not singing it as a tribute, they are singing it because they are mindless morons who are simply trying to mock Germany.

Does anyone know if there a facility to "lock" a thread? Since I started it and since some people are determined to ignore the initial purpose of the thread and would rather that it became just an excuse to abuse English people, I think that it's time that it was closed.

Nothing is going to come from further discussion, sadly, other than further mud slinging and bigotry. It's a shame that we can't just have a civilized discussion without it degenerating into chauvinism.

I have seen in action England fans singing these songs. They are the types of morons you see getting totally drunk every weekend in British city centres. Loud mouthed lager louts that civilised people cannot stand. They are not singing it as a tribute, they are singing it because they are mindless morons who are simply trying to mock Germany.

And you've also doubtless seen Celtic and Rangers fans in action totally drunk every weekend in cities all over Scotland - singing songs that mindlessly mock the other side about the battle of the Boyne and fenian blood or IRA atrocities etc. etc.

But that's okay, because they're Scottish.

Yet again, your hypocrisy is truly astounding.

I think I should add that the theme of 'Flower Of Scotland' is not about a single victory. It is about how enemies can live together and still have national pride and strength. The song highlights that instead of fighting the English, the best way forward was for Scots to work alongside the English whilst still keeping our own sense of identity.

We sing it as our National anthem. There is nothing anti-English about it at all. Quite the opposite. The line 'Those days have gone now' means that people must move on and leave past differences where they belong - in the past.

Something the English football fans should learn.

And you've also doubtless seen Celtic and Rangers fans in action totally drunk every weekend in cities all over Scotland - singing songs that mindlessly mock the other side about the battle of the Boyne and fenian blood or IRA atrocities etc. etc.

But that's okay, because they're Scottish.

Yet again, your hypocrisy is truly astounding.

A lot of Rangers/Celtic fans are morons, more so than any other club in Scotland. I can admit this. You cannot admit that England (alongside Turkey) have the most moronic fans in Europe. That's the difference.

I am humble enough to admit it, you are too arrogant to admit it.

I think I should add that the theme of 'Flower Of Scotland' is not about a single victory. It is about how enemies can live together and still have national pride and strength. The song highlights that instead of fighting the English, the best way forward was for Scots to work alongside the English whilst still keeping our own sense of identity.

We sing it as our National anthem. There is nothing anti-English about it at all. Quite the opposite. The line 'Those days have gone now' means that people must move on and leave past differences where they belong - in the past.

Something the English football fans should learn.

You're not fooling anyone. The venom with which the Scots sing that song makes their feelings about the English quite clear. They only sing the rest of the words because they have to - not because they believe in the sentiment.

I could even suggest that, when singing Flower of Scotland, the Scots are deliberately mocking the English for all the deaths that they suffered in the battle of Bannockburn. But then, I wouldn't want to be quite as ignorantly judgemental as you.

A lot of Rangers/Celtic fans are morons, more so than any other club in Scotland. I can admit this. You cannot admit that England (alongside Turkey) have the most moronic fans in Europe. That's the difference.

I am humble enough to admit it, you are too arrogant to admit it.

More wilful misrepresentation.

I have admitted on a number of occasions already on this thread that England do have a minority of violent and unpleasant fans who do a great disservice to the rest of us.

You, however, have arrogantly been absolutely determined to insist that the majority of English fans are violent and unpleasant and that is why I continue to argue against you. There's nothing arrogant about my behaviour at all.

That's this john mackie a scottish artist once said about scotland? Its a place "where the men are men and the sheep are nervous". :sly:

You're not fooling anyone. The venom with which the Scots sing that song makes their feelings about the English quite clear. They only sing the rest of the words because they have to - not because they believe in the sentiment

Sorry, but that's total bollocks. Utter nonsense.

How many Scotland games have you been to?

I go to all the home games and some away games. I know how we sing the song. How do you know?

Incidentally, the only time I have witnessed large crowd trouble was when england fans ran amok in Glasgow city centre. What a coincidence!! I have been to dozens of home games, lots of away games, and the only time I have seen mass disorder was when England visited.

The majority of England fans are ill-mannered. They are loud mouthed, arrogant and yobbish. A minority may commit violence, but the majority of them are still rude, crass idiots.

I think I should also point out that my posts refer to England football fans, not the English in general. I have been to quite a few England rugby internationals and you get a much better, more cultured type of fan at England rugby games.

That's this john mackie a scottish artist once said about scotland? Its a place "where the men are men and the sheep are nervous". :sly:

That's Aberdeenshire. A lonely place where sheep are your friends.

1. I wasn't saying that the blitz was a war crime. I said that it was "senseless and strategically stupid".
I said it ! It wasn't just "senseless and strategically stupid". It was a war crime ! (on both sides)


How monumentally thick do you have to be to compare the bombing of strategically important dams in the industrial heartland upon which wartime Germany depended with the senseless and strategically stupid blitz on English cities, in which over 40,000 people died?
Dambuster were also used to demoralize german civilization ! Same to the bombing of London, Coventry etc.


Off course it's not the majority, but there are quite a lot who sing such shit. imo more than what i call an 'minority' !
I've been to quite a few matches against english teams and i nearly allways met some stupid troublemakers. I wasn't seeking for them ;-)

But back to topic: England's gonna play in small stadiums and some fans may please us with their 'songs'. Same as it ever was

Sorry, but that's total bollocks. Utter nonsense.

How many Scotland games have you been to?

I go to all the home games and some away games. I know how we sing the song. How do you know?

Oh, I see. You are allowed to "know", beyond a shadow of doubt, what every English football fan is thinking when he hums Dambusters but I am not allowed to know how Scots are thinking when they sing Flower Of Scotland.

Riiiiiiggghhhht!

Yet again, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Incidentally, the only time I have witnessed large crowd trouble was when england fans ran amok in Glasgow city centre. What a coincidence!! I have been to dozens of home games, lots of away games, and the only time I have seen mass disorder was when England visited.

Well, you obviously never attended an England Scotland match at Wembley, then. Always loads of trouble and the Scots are every bit as responsible as the English.

The majority of England fans are ill-mannered. They are loud mouthed, arrogant and yobbish. A minority may commit violence, but the majority of them are still rude, crass idiots.

I repeat. You are a bigot. You are so unreasonably prejudiced towards the English that no one can take your opinion seriously.

I don't suppose that you're interested in the truth, because it doesn't perpetuate your jaundiced view of the English, but here it is anyway. There were 20,000 English fans in Japan and not one incident of trouble. Quite the opposite, in fact. English fans were universally praised for their excellent behaviour and their friendly demeanour. The reason? Because, with the new laws (preventing travel for the minority of trouble makers) effective for the first time, the MAJORITY of decent England football fans were allowed to get on with enjoying the World Cup just like everyone else. Likewise in Portugal, there were 70,000 England fans following the team and not one incident of trouble. Again, England fans were praised for their friendly behaviour. Not only did they create a superb atmosphere at England games but they also turned up in huge numbers to watch games not involving England. That really is the definition of entering into the joyful spirit of major football tournaments.

You don't know anything about the majority of England football fans so please stop talking out of your arse.

Oh, I see. You are allowed to "know", beyond a shadow of doubt, what every English football fan is thinking when he hums Dambusters but I am not allowed to know how Scots are thinking when they sing Flower Of Scotland.

Riiiiiiggghhhht!

Yet again, your hypocrisy knows no bounds.



Well, you obviously never attended an England Scotland match at Wembley, then. Always loads of trouble and the Scots are every bit as responsible as the English.



I repeat. You are a bigot. You are so unreasonably prejudiced towards the English that no one can take your opinion seriously.

I don't suppose that you're interested in the truth, because it doesn't perpetuate your jaundiced view of the English, but here it is anyway. There were 20,000 English fans in Japan and not one incident of trouble. Quite the opposite, in fact. English fans were universally praised for their excellent behaviour and their friendly demeanour. The reason? Because, with the new laws (preventing travel for the minority of trouble makers) effective for the first time, the MAJORITY of decent England football fans were allowed to get on with enjoying the World Cup just like everyone else. Likewise in Portugal, there were 70,000 England fans following the team and not one incident of trouble. Again, England fans were praised for their friendly behaviour. Not only did they create a superb atmosphere at England games but they also turned up in huge numbers to watch games not involving England. That really is the definition of entering into the joyful spirit of major football tournaments.

You don't know anything about the majority of England football fans so please stop talking out of your arse.

Scotland fans cleaned up their act 20 years ago, England haven't. We all know the water cannons will be out in the summer.

As I said, a minority may cause violence, but the majority are loud mouthed and ill-mannered. Just ask the residents of any city in Europe that England have visited.

You may quote Portugal, but one or two tournaments without total mayhem does not make you good fans. I you can go 15-20 years without causing widespread disorder, then you can come back and say things have changed.

You actually class not causing trouble in Portugal as some kind of achievement. Everybody else just classes not causing trouble as normal behaviour.

Well done. You didn't ruin a tournament. You must be so proud. Do you want a chocolate medal?

Scotland fans cleaned up their act 20 years ago, England haven't. We all know the water cannons will be out in the summer.

As I said, a minority may cause violence, but the majority are loud mouthed and ill-mannered. Just ask the residents of any city in Europe that England have visited.

Ask them!

You are a bigot. You will therefore believe what you want to believe in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

I don't doubt that England fans still have a bad reputation all over Europe. But that is the unfortunate consequence for the majority of decent English football fans - no one pays them any heed because everyone is too busy concerning themselves with the loutish minority.

Therefore, all England fans are unfortunately tarred with the same brush.

You may quote Portugal, but one or two tournaments without total mayhem does not make you good fans. I you can go 15-20 years without causing widespread disorder, then you can come back and say things have changed.

Try learning to read properly. I never said that our minority of bad fans were completely gone and that there would never be trouble involving England fans again. I said (and it really is so boring that I have to repeat this just for your sake) that, because of new laws preventing England's bad minority from travelling to the last two major tournaments, the majority of decent England fans were finally allowed to enjoy themselves at major tournaments. 2,000 louts were banned from travelling to Portugal and 70,000 England fans were therefore able to enjoy themselves and participate fully and amicably with every other football fan who was there.

I don't know whether you've ever done maths in your life but - outside of your own strange, bitter, bigoted little world - 70,000 over 2,000 constitutes a very significant majority.

You actually class not causing trouble in Portugal as some kind of achievement. Everybody else just classes not causing trouble as normal behaviour.

Well done. You didn't ruin a tournament. You must be so proud. Do you want a chocolate medal?

Try not to be such a fool all your life. I've only had to mention England fans' good behaviour over the past two tournaments because of your persistent abusive behaviour and your bigotry, spite, bitterness and ignorance.

So, who want's the Scots to join the Premiership? lol

It always makes me laugh how the Scots can chant 'Stand Up if you HATE England' all the way through an international game (I've been there and heard them) and yet their biggest clubs beg to join our league shortly afterwards. It really takes the biscuit to hear them accuse us of anti-scottish racism.

Oh well, thanks bubomb. You're reminding me why I left Scotland.

So, who want's the Scots to join the Premiership? lol

It always makes me laugh how the Scots can chant 'Stand Up if you HATE England' all the way through an international game (I've been there and heard them) and yet their biggest clubs beg to join our league shortly afterwards. It really takes the biscuit to hear them accuse us of anti-scottish racism.

Oh well, thanks bubomb. You're reminding me why I left Scotland.

Sorry, but the vast majority of Rangers fans don't want Rangers in England. We are proud to be Scottish. It's only celtic who want to be in England, because they class themselves as Irish and not Scottish, so they don't care if they leave the Scottish league.

and if you knew anything about Scottish football, you would know that over 80% of those who follow Scotland are not old firm fans. Most travel from Aberdeen, Dundee, Ayrshire etc to watch Scotland.

Pfft. We'd fill a stadium out against whoever, for whatever purpose. We filled out vast American stadiums for our tour there where we played the US and Colombia with just our 3rd choice players and was a total meaningless friendly. I do not know one other country that would do that for their football team.
Fill out the stadiums you say? Stange... because I was at the USA v. Engalnd game in Chicago. There were probably about 3000 unsold seats in the upper deck at Soldier Field. And the stadium was about half-half between the English and the American fans. I'm not saying that this is unimpressive. Filling a stadium 5,000 miles away from your home country with 25,000 fans is impressive. But that's less than half the stadium, not the whole stadium as you claim. Please stop exaggerating.

"What songs would those be? It's hysterical. You're making it up as you go along! For your information, the Dambusters theme was about an event which killed millions of............cubic metres of resevoir space. Duh!"

And a about 2000 civilians. Lovely people.
We're not singing about the Somme or Dünkirchen anyway, you're obviously living in a time bubble.
This is, in some way, blatant racism, a collective humiliation and vile mockery of a group of people just because of their nationality.
It's only sung when German teams are the opposition, so it's not a general way to celebrate "british heroism".


"I am perfectly aware, thank you very much, of the bombing of German cities by the allies - and particularly the bombings of Dresden and Cologne. And I believe them to be equally as senseless and strategically stupid (particularly since there was virtually nothing of strategic value in Dresden) as the bombings of English cities by the luftwaffe"

And yet a huge part of ignorant english supporters glorify those events.

From AWIMB:
Atleast at Bremen we get to sing "One Bomber Harris" again
"Vy iz it zat your towns outskirts are all post vwar buildings?"

Repulsive.
And this is not an exception, this is common mindset. You are humilating yourself with those songs.
It's like bubomb said, we'll take a horde of drunken scotsmen anytime over your lot, even if you are sober.

And a about 2000 civilians. Lovely people.

Nope. A total of just under 1300 people died, of which 750 were Ukrainian prisoners of war. The remainder were split between German military personnel and civilians.

We're not singing about the Somme or Dünkirchen anyway, you're obviously living in a time bubble.
This is, in some way, blatant racism, a collective humiliation and vile mockery of a group of people just because of their nationality.
It's only sung when German teams are the opposition, so it's not a general way to celebrate "british heroism".

I'm not living in any sort of time bubble. Christ on a bike! How many times do I have to repeat that I don't sing any of those songs? Are you being deliberately obtuse? Besides, as I've said before, all countries have songs about past military victories. The point is that the vast majority of those who sing the Dambusters theme are not, as bubomb and you have tried to imply, specifically and deliberately celebrating and mocking the deaths of millions of Germans in World War 2. They are, more generally, celebrating victory.

And yet a huge part of ignorant english supporters glorify those events.

A huge part? How the hell would you know? Have you travelled extensively with England supporters? Have you polled every single follower of England? Of course you haven't. So stop talking out of your arse. That person who posted on AWIMB (and let's face it - Arsenal fans are not the brightest) is just one person. You simply cannot extrapolate from that that the majority of England supporters hold the same vile views. It's utterly nonsensical and is, in fact, racism on your part to assume that most English football fans do.

Repulsive.
And this is not an exception, this is common mindset.

More bollocks. If you must post xenophobic crap, I suggest that you and that bloke on AWIMB go and find a room and shout yourselves hoarse at each other.

You are humilating yourself with those songs.
It's like bubomb said, we'll take a horde of drunken scotsmen anytime over your lot, even if you are sober.

I am not humiliating myself because I don't sing those songs. Really, you are being deliberately obtuse, aren't you? And as I've said before, I don't doubt that you'd rather welcome the Scots than the English. That's because our bad minority have given all English fans a bad reputation and, unfortunately, people like you are too bigoted to give those of us decent England fans a chance.

Can we now stop this discussion? We've had a few days of peace and I had hoped that no one would dredge this thread up again.

Nope. A total of just under 1300 people died, of which 750 were Ukrainian prisoners of war. The remainder were split between German military personnel and civilians.


Hope that makes you feel better. Wonder why you make all that fuss about Coventry then...


The point is that the vast majority of those who sing the Dambusters theme are not, as bubomb and you have tried to imply, specifically and deliberately celebrating and mocking the deaths of millions of Germans in World War 2. They are, more generally, celebrating victory.

So we are to blame if we don't accept that innocent celebration ? It's just a little banter, you know...
What about italian opposition ?
Morons.



A huge part? How the hell would you know? Have you travelled extensively with England supporters? Have you polled every single follower of England? Of course you haven't. So stop talking out of your arse. That person who posted on AWIMB (and let's face it - Arsenal fans are not the brightest) is just one person. You simply cannot extrapolate from that that the majority of England supporters hold the same vile views. It's utterly nonsensical and is, in fact, racism on your part to assume that most English football fans do.

Desperately trying to turn tables on me.... just sad.
Face it, it is folklore, it's a integral part of english terrace culture. Last time (Bayern) against Chelsea the whole "Bridge" entertained themself with that kind of crap, Stuttgart supporters were greeted with spread out arms at Ibrox.... etc pp.
The announcer told Bayern supporters to sit down because it's "antisocial", didn't hear him telling the Chavs to stop singing that vile crap, obviously this is perfectly acceptable.


More bollocks. If you must post xenophobic crap, I suggest that you and that bloke on AWIMB go and find a room and shout yourselves hoarse at each other.

Who's the xenophobe ?

Hilarious thread. I think all WC games should start at 10pm local time so the English can catch re-runs of Coronation Street before the game.

We all know that the English have a huge following but what are you complaining about? Cologne and Frankfurt are two of the best stadiums out there. Would you rather watch your team play in Stuttgart where you'll be a mile away from the pitch??? Well, would you? Answer me!

Hope that makes you feel better. Wonder why you make all that fuss about Coventry then...

Hahahaha! This is ridiculous. I didn't complain about Coventry at all. You're the one who started the discussion about the Dambuster song! You are becoming increasingly obtuse and, considering your starting position, that's some feat!

So we are to blame if we don't accept that innocent celebration ? It's just a little banter, you know...
What about italian opposition ?
Morons.

Do try to keep up. I never said that those songs weren't annoying or offensive. I merely ridiculed bubomb's claim that those England fans who sing the Dambusters theme are specifically and deliberately mocking and celebrating millions of German deaths.

Desperately trying to turn tables on me.... just sad.

No. What is sad is your determination to view the majority of English fans as, violent, loutish, unfriendly, unpleasant and racist. If you actually took your anti English goggles off for one second, you would know that there are thousands upon thousands of English fans who are as friendly and well behaved as fans of any other nation.

Stuttgart supporters were greeted with spread out arms at Ibrox.

Surely not. The Scots are all lovely, jolly little people. Never a harsh word has ever left their mouths. The Scots don't live in the past and dredge up historic enmities. At least, that's what bubomb's been telling us.

Who's the xenophobe ?

You, of course, for your bigoted views about the English.

We all know that the English have a huge following but what are you complaining about? Cologne and Frankfurt are two of the best stadiums out there. Would you rather watch your team play in Stuttgart where you'll be a mile away from the pitch??? Well, would you? Answer me!

Thank you!

It's good to know that there is someone, at least, as well as me who prefers to discuss the original intention of this thread rather than use it merely as a vehicle for chauvinism.

I understand your point but I'd prefer to put it this way: wouldn't it only be fair that England, as seeds for group B, should play at least one of their group games at Dortmund, Munich or Berlin, where more of our fans would get a chance to see the team? Don't you agree that it is rather ridiculous that, of all the teams in group B, England (the seeds) get to play in the smallest stadiums?

That's probably true. Would have been better to switch venues for the Sweden v Paraguay (Berlin) and England v T&T (Nuremburg) games.

That's probably true. Would have been better to switch venues for the Sweden v Paraguay (Berlin) and England v T&T (Nuremburg) games.

Sweden will have a lot of fans in Germany to. Why should they be moved?
I think they should keep the stadiums as they are, it is a lottery, so it is just bad luck for England.

ATHENS OLYMPIC STADIUM

http://www.wavingtheflag.com/photos/Athens5.jpg
http://www.stadiumguide.com/oaka3.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Olympic_Stadium_of_Athens.jpg/800px-Olympic_Stadium_of_Athens.jpg

ABUJA NATIONAL STADIUM


http://www.fussballtempel.net/caf/NGR/Abuja3.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/caf/NGR/Abuja.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/caf/NGR/Abuja_A.jpg

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/africa/nigeria/abuja_stadium2.jpg

All associations will get their fair share, the English Übersupporters won't enjoy any preferential treatment. If (and that is a big 'if') there are additional tickets available, the FA can claim these.

Sweden will have a lot of fans in Germany to. Why should they be moved?
I think they should keep the stadiums as they are, it is a lottery, so it is just bad luck for England.

I'm not suggesting that anything could or should be done for the coming World Cup. It's too late now. It was, however, undeniably a cock-up or (for the conspiracy theorists!) a fix by FIFA to have group B's seeds play all their games at the smaller stadiums and they need to make sure that the same thing doesn't happen at the next World Cup.

All associations will get their fair share, the English Übersupporters won't enjoy any preferential treatment. If (and that is a big 'if') there are additional tickets available, the FA can claim these.

You could argue that England being seeds is an achievement on their part(even if the seeding system is less than perfect) and so merits prefferential or at least equal treatment to those who failed to making the seedings. Brazil have afterall receieved the benefit of thye 3 large stadia because their world champions so the presedent has been set.

As I said I don't think this is some plot agenst England on FIFA's part but rather a result of overly politcally correct allocation of games(which i'd guess is likely FIFA's doing since I remember similar things happening at previous WC's). If you look at the fixture list you'll notice that every stadium hosts 4 games in the opening round and in every case 2 of those games feature seeds. Thats a misuse of resources if you ask me since it leaves you with silly fixtures like Tunisia vs Saudi Arabia being played at the Allianz Arena. What should have been done IMHO was for the bigger grounds to host more seeds games than the little ones.

Those are incredibly similiar.

It really does look like exactly the same stadium with a different roof. The only obvious differences are the roof and the different colored track.

You could argue that England being seeds is an achievement on their part(even if the seeding system is less than perfect) and so merits prefferential or at least equal treatment to those who failed to making the seedings. Brazil have afterall receieved the benefit of thye 3 large stadia because their world champions so the presedent has been set.

As I said I don't think this is some plot agenst England on FIFA's part but rather a result of overly politcally correct allocation of games(which i'd guess is likely FIFA's doing since I remember similar things happening at previous WC's). If you look at the fixture list you'll notice that every stadium hosts 4 games in the opening round and in every case 2 of those games feature seeds. Thats a misuse of resources if you ask me since it leaves you with silly fixtures like Tunisia vs Saudi Arabia being played at the Allianz Arena. What should have been done IMHO was for the bigger grounds to host more seeds games than the little ones.
Just take it from another point of view.
Every city should be able to watch at least 2 world-class teams !
And that is also fair !

Or take it form the following point of view:
What's about a fully controlled reservoir (like Italy'90) for the english team where every group-stage-match is scheduled.

Once again: It's a WORLD cup ! Every person in the whole wide world has the same possibility to get a ticket for a game !!!

Surely not. The Scots are all lovely, jolly little people. Never a harsh word has ever left their mouths. The Scots don't live in the past and dredge up historic enmities. At least, that's what bubomb's been telling us.

You, of course, for your bigoted views about the English.


I thought I said Rangers and celtic have a huge number of morons in their support!!

Maybe I imagined it!!

You could argue that England being seeds is an achievement on their part(even if the seeding system is less than perfect) and so merits prefferential or at least equal treatment to those who failed to making the seedings. Brazil have afterall receieved the benefit of thye 3 large stadia because their world champions so the presedent has been set.

Argentina, the Netherlands, Italy, Czech Republic, Spain, France are all big guns, incredibly none of them will play their group stage matches Berlin, Dortmund or Munich.
So you are not alone.


"a fix by FIFA to have group B's seeds play all their games at the smaller stadiums "

Or Group E's, or group C's, or Group G's, Group D's or Group H's....

Surely a mean sprited fix, targeted solely at the FA and their Übersupporters.

I hope the Germans have made sure their water cannons are working fine. They will need them.

I thought I said Rangers and celtic have a huge number of morons in their support!!

Maybe I imagined it!!

You also wrote:

Scotland makes up less than 10% of the UK population, but in both wars, Scottish soldiers made up 20% of the British army. So per head of population, we suffered more than England during the wars. So how come we don't sing dambusters etc? We don't because we have moved on.

Or maybe I imagined it?

Argentina, the Netherlands, Italy, Czech Republic, Spain, France are all big guns, incredibly none of them will play their group stage matches Berlin, Dortmund or Munich.
So you are not alone.

Maybe not. But, in that case, FIFA have cocked up even more. Surely it wasn't that difficult to organise that the seeds of each group should play at least one group game at one of the bigger stadiums? Simply incompetence on their part.

the FA and their Übersupporters.

Try not to be such a facetious prat. No one has claimed that England fans are better than any others.

You also wrote:



Or maybe I imagined it?


Yes, I did write that. Rangers and celtic fans are different to Scotland fans. Rangers and celtic fans make up less than 20% of the Tartan Army.

and the Rangers and celtic fans that are in the Tartan Army are from the well-behaved Rangers and celtic fans.

Ask anybody from Europe what they thought of the Scotland fans when they visited. Then ask them what they thought of the England fans when they visited. Compare and contrast their answers.

Once again: It's a WORLD cup ! Every person in the whole wide world has the same possibility to get a ticket for a game !!!

This is the crux of the whole matter.

The truth is that the vast majority of tickets will be allocated to sponsors and agencies and those who don't really want them and the only people who will be able to get tickets for the games (other than the ridiculously tiny combined 16% of tickets allocated to the competing teams) will be those who can afford to pay tout prices. And, in the case of England games - when demand will be phenomenal - the tout prices will be exorbitant.

FIFA are effectively bankrolling touts. Soon, I'm sure, they will draft a Touts' Charter, which will enshrine touts' rights while putting those horrible, ordinary, genuine football fans in their place.

Yes, I did write that. Rangers and celtic fans are different to Scotland fans. Rangers and celtic fans make up less than 20% of the Tartan Army.

and the Rangers and celtic fans that are in the Tartan Army are from the well-behaved Rangers and celtic fans.

Ask anybody from Europe what they thought of the Scotland fans when they visited. Then ask them what they thought of the England fans when they visited. Compare and contrast their answers.

Completely irrelevant. You said that Scottish people (rather than specifically the tartan army) don't sing Dambusters because Scottish people have moved on. You've been caught out and you're now trying to wriggle out of it!

Completely irrelevant. You said that Scottish people (rather than specifically the tartan army) don't sing Dambusters because Scottish people have moved on. You've been caught out and you're now trying to wriggle out of it!


Now you are playing on words.

Scotland has 5 million people. They have moved on from Germany and WW2.

Old firm attendances are 110000 each week. Lets say 25% of them sing bigoted songs based on past events. Thats 27500 out of 5 million. That is 0.55%. I rest my case.

Face facts - Scotland fans are better than England fans. You know it, I know it, Europe knows it. No amount of arguing by yourself is going to change this fact.

Scotland has 5 million people. They have moved on from Germany and WW2.

Old firm attendances are 110000 each week. Lets say 25% of them sing bigoted songs based on past events. Thats 27500 out of 5 million. That is 0.55%. I rest my case.

Oh, but, stereotyping a whole nation on the basis of a minority is the whole point of this thread as far as you're concerned, isn't it?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander...

Face facts - Scotland fans are better than England fans. You know it, I know it, Europe knows it. No amount of arguing by yourself is going to change this fact.

Duh!

We're not actually discussing whether England fans are better or worse than Scotland fans. At least, I've not mentioned anything of the sort. I've merely been responding to your ridiculously bigoted claims about the so called majority of English fans.

Oh, but, stereotyping a whole nation on the basis of a minority is the whole point of this thread as far as you're concerned, isn't it?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander...



Duh!

We're not actually discussing whether England fans are better or worse than Scotland fans. At least, I've not mentioned anything of the sort. I've merely been responding to your ridiculously bigoted claims about the so called majority of English fans.

I said my arguments were for English football fans, not England in general. England rugby fans are much nicer people.

Try not to be such a facetious prat. No one has claimed that England fans are better than any others.

Hilarious, every single post of your lot implies that. "We have the biggest following" "We deserve bigger stadia" "In Portugal we even overwhelmed the home side"
The whole thread revolves around the inadequate treatment of the superior Engerlund crowd, not about discussing the general idiocy of FIFA.
If England had got what you propose, none of you would have called for justice.... even if that meant Argentina, Netherlands etc were still excluded from the bigger stadia.

I said my arguments were for English football fans, not England in general. England rugby fans are much nicer people.

Gross sterotyping and bigotry are still gross stereotyping and bigotry, whether directed at a whole nation or at a set of football supporters.

Gross sterotyping and bigotry are still gross stereotyping and bigotry, whether directed at a whole nation or at a set of football supporters.

Not if it's true.

Bubomb, stop embarrinsing yourself with just ridiculas arguments. Quite amusing that your arguing the Scots are less bigoted than the English when pretty much everything you post onm this forum is evidense is driven by it.

Surely a mean sprited fix, targeted solely at the FA and their Übersupporters.

As I said I don't think its a fix agenst England so please stop trying to use that straw man argument but the fact that one of the seeded teams ends up with the second lowest allocation of tickets in the entire tournament doesnt strike me as good organisation(the likes of Gelsenkirchen while smaller than the big three have 10,000 more seats than Nuremberg). Theres no definitive right or wrong but to me more importance should be attacted to putting the best games on the biggest stage than pleasing local councils. I'm sure the German fans would preffer to watch the likes of Argentia more than they would Togo aswell even if it involves a drive of an hour or two.

Bubomb, stop embarrinsing yourself with just ridiculas arguments. Quite amusing that your arguing the Scots are less bigoted than the English when pretty much everything you post onm this forum is evidense is driven by it.

Why would I be bigoted against the English? I said their Rugby fans are fine. I often went on holiday in England when I was young and loved it, and yes, some of my relatives are English.

It's just their football fans that are bellends.

Hilarious, every single post of your lot implies that. "We have the biggest following" "We deserve bigger stadia" "In Portugal we even overwhelmed the home side"
The whole thread revolves around the inadequate treatment of the superior Engerlund crowd, not about discussing the general idiocy of FIFA.
If England had got what you propose, none of you would have called for justice.... even if that meant Argentina, Netherlands etc were still excluded from the bigger stadia.

There's a huge difference between stating known facts (that England fans travel in bigger numbers to tournaments than those of other nations) and claiming that England fans are better than those of any other nation. Surely it's not that difficult for you to see the distinction?

And I've already said that Holland, like England, have also been dealt a pitiful hand by FIFA. French and Italian fans, on the other hand, don't travel to international tournaments in huge numbers, so they will not be unduly inconvenienced by playing in smaller stadiums. And because the World Cup is in Europe, Argentina will not have a huge following in Germany either. So of course, I'm not going to make a case for those teams as well.

Not if it's true.

The above statement is merely proof of your bigotry.

You really are a foul hypocrite.

Why would I be bigoted against the English? I said their Rugby fans are fine. I often went on holiday in England when I was young and loved it, and yes, some of my relatives are English.

It's just their football fans that are bellends.

Saying that England rugby fans are fine doesn't make you any less of a bigot.

It's like the racist who spends half his time telling disgusting jokes about black people but then turning to his black colleague and saying, "No offence, mate. You're alright."

Saying that England rugby fans are fine doesn't make you any less of a bigot.

It's like the racist who spends half his time telling disgusting jokes about black people but then turning to his black colleague and saying, "No offence, mate. You're alright."


Don't be so sensitive. Some racist jokes are hilarious. It's just a joke, no harm done. Did you hear about the Scotsman that dropped 50 pence? It hit him on the back of his head.

Why is it always white, middle class people who are offended by racist jokes? My black mate at uni couldn't give a sh!t about racist jokes. He often told them.

This has gone off topic.

Don't be so sensitive. Some racist jokes are hilarious. It's just a joke, no harm done. Did you hear about the Scotsman that dropped 50 pence? It hit him on the back of his head.

Why is it always white, middle class people who are offended by racist jokes? My black mate at uni couldn't give a sh!t about racist jokes. He often told them.

This has gone off topic.

It's not a question of whether racist jokes are funny (though they are undeniably in poor taste). It's about the mentality of people who persistently make such jokes. Besides, I only used racist jokes as an analogy. Here's a different analogy:

Indiscriminately abusing English football fans as thugs, louts, racists and yobs but then excusing yourself by saying that that small minority of English people who follow rugby are "fine", is like the racist who spends half his time abusing black people that he doesn't know in a racist manner but then turning to a black colleague and saying, "No offence, mate. You're alright."

It's not a question of whether racist jokes are funny (though they are undeniably in poor taste). It's about the mentality of people who persistently make such jokes. Besides, I only used racist jokes as an analogy. Here's a different analogy:

Indiscriminately abusing English football fans as thugs, louts, racists and yobs but then excusing yourself by saying that that small minority of English people who follow rugby are "fine", is like the racist who spends half his time abusing black people that he doesn't know in a racist manner but then turning to a black colleague and saying, "No offence, mate. You're alright."

Nah, that's a rubbish analogy. It would only work if England football fans weren't yobs. In general, they are.

Nah, that's a rubbish analogy. It would only work if England football fans weren't yobs. In general, they are.

You don't know 99.99999999% of England fans so you can't possibly claim to know what they're like. You base your opinion on all of us on the actions and behaviour of a minority.

Classic bigotry.

You seem to be quite happy with your bigotry. Do you also perceive all Jews as Fagin? All Arabs as Bin Laden?

I wouldn't be surprised.

You don't know 99.99999999% of England fans so you can't possibly claim to know what they're like. You base your opinion on all of us on the actions and behaviour of a minority.

Classic bigotry.

You seem to be quite happy with your bigotry. Do you also perceive all Jews as Fagin? All Arabs as Bin Laden?

I wouldn't be surprised.

I have seen England fans in the flesh many times. I know how most of you think and act, as do the poor people of European cities each time you visit.

A minority are violent, a majority are rude, ill-mannered loudmouths.

Those 2 stadiums where made by same companies i think or designed be same company something like that but they are other stadiums that look very similiar.

Here is something similiar

http://www.squashpics.com/cg98/CG98%20-%20Impressive%20main%20stadium%205223.jpg

I have seen England fans in the flesh many times. I know how most of you think and act, as do the poor people of European cities each time you visit. A minority are violent, a majority are rude, ill-mannered loudmouths.

You know nothing of the sort. You only think you know because you see the minority of loutish England fans and, as a consequence of your antipathy for and bitterness towards the English, it suits you to assume that all England fans are the same. You therefore pay no heed to the majority of English fans who are as decent as fans from any other nation.

I repeat (since clearly your memory is faulty and your comprehension is limited): 70,000 England fans in Portugal and no trouble, with England fans praised for their excellent behaviour and friendly demeanour. All because 2000 louts and trouble makers were banned from travelling.

Argue with yourself until you are blue in the face or chase your tail for hours on end (both, no doubt, highly productive pastimes by your low standards) but you cannot change the fact quoted above. England's bad fans - for all the high profile shame that they heap upon all decent England fans - are nevertheless very much in the minority. It is only your stubborn arrogance, your ignorance, your stupidity and your bigoted nature that are perpetuating this discussion. Time for you to get another bone to chew. There's a good boy.

They're both just boring bowls.

You know nothing of the sort. You only think you know because you see the minority of loutish England fans and, as a consequence of your antipathy for and bitterness towards the English, it suits you to assume that all England fans are the same. You therefore pay no heed to the majority of English fans who are as decent as fans from any other nation.

I repeat (since clearly your memory is faulty and your comprehension is limited): 70,000 England fans in Portugal and no trouble, with England fans praised for their excellent behaviour and friendly demeanour. All because 2000 louts and trouble makers were banned from travelling.

Argue with yourself until you are blue in the face or chase your tail for hours on end (both, no doubt, highly productive pastimes by your low standards) but you cannot change the fact quoted above. England's bad fans - for all the high profile shame that they heap upon all decent England fans - are nevertheless very much in the minority. It is only your stubborn arrogance, your ignorance, your stupidity and your bigoted nature that are perpetuating this discussion. Time for you to get another bone to chew. There's a good boy.


Let's ask the people of Europe then?

When in England come to vist, what have been your experiences, good or bad? Not just the hooligans (as they are banned supposedly, but we all know the water cannons will be out in 6 months time), the normal ones as well.

Anybody in Munich? Did you all have a good laugh with 10000 England fans singing WW2 songs? Were they great fun?

Please let us know about these fun loving England fans.

Anybody in Munich? Did you all have a good laugh with 10000 England fans singing WW2 songs? Were they great fun?

1. How do you know what percentage of England fans were singing WW2 songs? Answer: you don't.

2. Yet another example of your hypocrisy: Persistently telling racist jokes is just harmless banter, according to you. But humming the Dambusters theme is disgusting, disgraceful, vile, loutish and racist. Go figure.

1. How do you know what percentage of England fans were singing WW2 songs? Answer: you don't.

2. Yet another example of your hypocrisy: Persistently telling racist jokes is just harmless banter, according to you. But humming the Dambusters theme is disgusting, disgraceful, vile, loutish and racist. Go figure.


Millions died in Germany in WW2, so songs glorifying this are wrong. I also wouldn't make racist Jewish jokes about WW2 in front of Jews or Germans, as this would be very offensive.

Making racist jokes in front of people who don't mind then is ok, as it upsets nobody.

Will you admit that these '2 world wars/1 world cup' style songs are wrong to sing whilst in Germany? Yes or No please.

If you say No, then you simply cannot understand why so many people find England fans offensive, and therefore there is no point in explaining it to you. If you say No then you are simply a typical ignorant England fan who has no repect for others. Gerrmans are genuinely disgusted by these songs. Everybody else can see that these songs should not be sung at the World Cup, can you?

Vote: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=296198

Vote: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=296198


Just as I thought. Thanks for the link.

Millions died in Germany in WW2, so songs glorifying this are wrong. I also wouldn't make racist Jewish jokes about WW2 in front of Jews or Germans, as this would be very offensive.

Making racist jokes in front of people who don't mind then is ok, as it upsets nobody.

Millions of Africans have died as a consequence of racism. But, hey, it's okay to make racist jokes? Duh!

If you can't see why making racist jokes isn't merely harmless fun, regardless of who is present, then you really are even more stupid than I thought and you therefore have no right to pass judgement on anyone else's behaviour.

And I've already said on a number of occasions (as you would have noticed, even if you had the attention span of goldfish) that I don't sing any WW2 songs. So it is safe to assume that I don't approve of them.

The difference between you and me, however, is that I have integrity. If something is wrong, it is wrong. You, however, would presumably say that it's quite alright for the English to sing songs "mocking and celebrating the deaths of millions of Germans" as long as there are no Germans present?

And I've already said on a number of occasions (as you would have noticed, even if you had the attention span of goldfish) that I don't sing any WW2 songs. So it is safe to assume that I don't approve of them.


It ok to make racist jokes about Africans as long as they are funny and nobody is offended. I probably wouldn't say one in front of an African incase he takes the huff.

Anyway, you have admitted that most England fans are crass idiots. That is a start. Well done.

Vote: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=296198

I don't speak German.

What does the poll ask? Who are the most likely fans to cause trouble at the World Cup?

If so, then I would agree that it's most likely to be the English. Sadly, the last two tournamente have been too good to be true and I can't believe that the police security and intelligence operation, preventing the trouble makers from travelling, will work quite as well as it did in 2002 and 2004.

But that still doesn't alter the truth - which is that the vast majority of England fans are as decent and friendly as fans of any other nation.

It ok to make racist jokes about Africans as long as they are funny and nobody is offended. I probably wouldn't say one in front of an African incase he takes the huff.

Anyway, you have admitted that most England fans are crass idiots. That is a start. Well done.

I have admitted nothing of the sort.

But I am glad that you have admitted that you are a racist as well as a bigot. That is a start. Well done.

I have admitted nothing of the sort.

But I am glad that you have admitted that you are a racist as well as a bigot. That is a start. Well done.


If telling a racist joke makes you a genuine racist, then yes, I am a racist, along with nearly every single person in the UK.

If telling a racist joke makes you a genuine racist, then yes, I am a racist, along with nearly every single person in the UK.

Hahahahahahaha! Maybe that's what goes on in your bigoted, little world. You do like your gross generalisations on the basis of flimsy evidence, don't you?

I repeat: if you don't understand why telling racist jokes is wrong, regardless of who is present, then you are stupid beyond belief and you have no right to pass judgement on anyone else's behaviour.

They do look remarkably similar.

The top tier in the Abudja stadium is slightly higher than the top tier of the Athens stadium.

Hahahahahahaha! Maybe that's what goes on in your bigoted, little world. You do like your gross generalisations on the basis of flimsy evidence, don't you?

I repeat: if you don't understand why telling racist jokes is wrong, regardless of who is present, then you are stupid beyond belief and you have no right to pass judgement on anyone else's behaviour.


You sound like a nancyboy, politically correct liberal. Grow up. You have never told a racist joke? Christ, you must be the life and soul of the party.

You wouldn't last long in Glasgow if you are that soft.

You sound like a nancyboy, politically correct liberal. Grow up. You have never told a racist joke? Christ, you must be the life and soul of the party.

You wouldn't last long in Glasgow if you are that soft.

I'll give you this: you have some front to make those sort of accusations after your endless fannying and whining about the behaviour of the English on this thread.

The truth is, though, that most civilized, intelligent people don't tell racist jokes once they have grown up. And I seem to get on fine at parties without feeling the need to make racist jokes. Doubtless your excuse is that you simply lack the imagination or the wit to do anything else.

The truth is, though, that most civilized, intelligent people don't tell racist jokes once they have grown up.

Bullshit!

I always think it's funny how the people that don't have any (close) friends among other cultures are the ones to get most upset about racist jokes. I am not saying that's you, I'm just stating a general fact.

In my steady groups of friends there are only mixed couples. Couple of Dutch, Indonesians, Antilleans and some more. No one is dating someone the same race, so you can say we're pretty multicultural. Funny thing is that we all make racist jokes about each other and it really gives us some good laughs.

As a matter of fact you can beat racism more with making jokes about each other's differences and laugh about them instead of trying so hard to be political correct. Most of the time it's the political correct people that have the problem, and that's why they try so hard to be political correct...

Bullshit!

I always think it's funny how the people that don't have any (close) friends among other cultures are the ones to get most upset about racist jokes. I am not saying that's you, I'm just stating a general fact.

In my steady groups of friends there are only mixed couples. Couple of Dutch, Indonesians, Antilleans and some more. No one is dating someone the same race, so you can say we're pretty multicultural. Funny thing is that we all make racist jokes about each other and it really gives us some good laughs.

As a matter of fact you can beat racism more with making jokes about each other's differences and laugh about them instead of trying so hard to be political correct. Most of the time it's the political correct people that have the problem, and that's why they try so hard to be political correct...

That's a very different situation and, as it happens, quite the opposite of what bubomb was suggesting. I'm well aware that many people of many races (Jews particularly) tell jokes against their own race and that, among a group of multicultural friends, jokes are made about each others' race.

But for white (for the sake of example) people to tell racist jokes about black people or Asians only among other white people (as bubomb suggested) has far darker implications. If persistent and unchecked, it breeds disrespect - even contempt - for people of other races. It is not a shared humour, like the situation you describe above. It is a one way street only.

That's a very different situation and, as it happens, quite the opposite of what bubomb was suggesting. I'm well aware that many people of many races (Jews particularly) tell jokes against their own race and that, among a group of multicultural friends, jokes are made about each others' race.

But for white (for the sake of example) people to tell racist jokes about black people or Asians only among other white people (as bubomb suggested) has far darker implications. If persistent and unchecked, it breeds disrespect - even contempt - for people of other races. It is not a shared humour, like the situation you describe above. It is a one way street only.

Rubbish. Do you read 'The Guardian' by any chance? It's a joke, no harm done. Bloody shandy drinking Southerners.

Rubbish. Do you read 'The Guardian' by any chance? It's a joke, no harm done. Bloody shandy drinking Southerners.

Not rubbish at all. I can guarantee you that a child who is brought up in an environment where parents and their same race friends are perpetually making disparaging or offensive jokes about people of other races is far more likely to grow up a racist than a child who hasn't been subjected to such an environment.

Bloody stunted, spotty fried Mars Bar eating jocks.

Not rubbish at all. I can guarantee you that a child who is brought up in an environment where parents and their same race friends are perpetually making disparaging or offensive jokes about people of other races is far more likely to grow up a racist than a child who hasn't been subjected to such an environment.

Bloody stunted, spotty fried Mars Bar eating jocks.

If that's the case, then why doesn't Scotland have a much larger race problem than London?

Where I live, nearlly everybody is white, but I have never met a genuine racist in Scotland.

If you tell people what they can or cannot say, then those people will begin to resent the groups of people who they are not allowed to talk about. If black people dictated what jokes I can tell, I would soon begin to resent black people.

I should point out that it is middle class white people who try and force their politically correct opinions on normal people, not blacks or any other minorities.

I don't speak German.

What does the poll ask? Who are the most likely fans to cause trouble at the World Cup?

If so, then I would agree that it's most likely to be the English. Sadly, the last two tournamente have been too good to be true and I can't believe that the police security and intelligence operation, preventing the trouble makers from travelling, will work quite as well as it did in 2002 and 2004.

But that still doesn't alter the truth - which is that the vast majority of England fans are as decent and friendly as fans of any other nation.

Yes, it's a competition between Poland, England, Holland, Germany and Serbia-Montenegro. I actually think Poland has a good chance of winning the Hoolicup, they seem well prepared and they had a run in with some German hools a couple of weeks ago.

This is what your average England fan is like -

http://66.98.238.16/compfuse/media/19imjtolllg/britfight.wmv

If that's the case, then why doesn't Scotland have a much larger race problem than London?

Where I live, nearlly everybody is white, but I have never met a genuine racist in Scotland.

If you tell people what they can or cannot say, then those people will begin to resent the groups of people who they are not allowed to talk about. If black people dictated what jokes I can tell, I would soon begin to resent black people.

I should point out that it is middle class white people who try and force their politically correct opinions on normal people, not blacks or any other minorities.

Hahahahahahahaha!

For fuck's sake! So now the English are more racist than the Scots as well? Bloody hell! You really are a caricature of a bitter, chippy jock.

What next?

The English are all cowards?

The English are all rapists?

The English are all paedophiles?

The English are all serial killers?

Go on, bubomb. We're all waiting with bated breath for your next risible claim.

We have gone so far off topic that there is no point discussing the issue of racist jokes any further. We will simply have to agree to disagree.

"So now the English are more racist than the Scots"


Who said that? Nobody said that. Why are you so quickly on the defensive? You are acting like everybody is out to get England. I didn't even imply England was more racist, yet suddenly that's what you are thinking.

Who are you trying to convince with all your arguments? Me, or yourself?

"So now the English are more racist than the Scots"


Who said that? Nobody said that. Why are you so quickly on the defensive? You are acting like everybody is out to get England. I didn't even imply England was more racist, yet suddenly that's what you are thinking.

Who are you trying to convince with all your arguments? Me, or yourself?

Apologies. I misread your last post. Thought you had said that London has a much larger problem with racists than Scotland.

But still, trying to imply that there are no, or only very few, racists in Scotland....who are you trying to kid? I know that we have loads of them in England and I know that you have loads of them in Scotland too.

I would like if someone posted pics or links to any proposed, under construction or finished sports facilities in Dubai and Qatar. I heard about this supposedly amazing sports facility in Qatar and also about some in Dubai.

not again

^ I dont remember seeing a thread for it

new Kaiserslautern pics

http://www.1fck.de/albums/album155/IMG_0138.sized.jpg
http://www.1fck.de/albums/album180/IMG_0796.sized.jpg http://www.1fck.de/albums/album180/IMG_0797.sized.jpg http://www.1fck.de/albums/album180/IMG_0792.sized.jpg http://www.1fck.de/albums/album181/IMG_0822.sized.jpg http://www.1fck.de/albums/album193/IMG_1020.sized.jpg http://www.1fck.de/albums/album193/IMG_1041.sized.jpg http://www.1fck.de/albums/album193/IMG_1040.sized.jpg

a walkway up to the stadium

http://www.1fck.de/albums/album158/IMG_0261.sized.jpg

:)

and I found another pic of the impressive proposal of gmp for Valencia.
If anyone has detailed information about the financing of this stadium pls post.

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_business/images/news/valencia_1.jpg

and here is a nice ZDF video about the Veltins arena in Gelsenkirchen.

the documentary is somewhat spoiled though by too many old and grumpy people who claim that half a lifetime ago when there wasnt the money involved in the sport and when there werent any stadium tourists, it was all better.
Nevertheless its a nice insight into the Veltins arena and the fan-culture in Germany

enjoy:

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/inhalt/27/0,4070,3181595-5,00.html

(double click on the video to watch with full screen)
:) :)

and a new pic of the new arena in Duesseldorf uc
http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_arenen/images/news/duesseldorf_14_12_2005_1.jpg

i think it better if you check the middle east forum ,the guys over sure will help you ;)

Abuja stadium is nicer

Borjomi is the best place i have ever been!!!!!!!!

I think they should be in South Korea since europe is holding 2006.

for russia its SOCHI SOCHI SOCHI SOCHI

s there snow in Georgia and Bulgaria? I really didn't know that.
:hammer:
honestly, do you even know where Georgia and Bulgaria are?
IMO it will be that city in South Korea, I forgot its name but it got 2nd last time, and with the games in Torino next month, they like to rotate continents

Jaca, in Spain will bid too for these olympic games

estadio jalisco ....guadalajara mexico (65,000)

http://img303.imageshack.us/img303/6164/10qa2.jpg

Istanbul Ataturk Olympic Stadium:
http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/4484/untitled1sd5yz.jpg

Istanbul - Sukru Saracoglu Stadium(Fenerbahce) (52.000)

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/2451/untitled1sdsd0yg.jpg

Istanbul - Inonu Stadium (Besiktas) (32.000)

http://img431.imageshack.us/img431/7668/untitled1sdsdf7qb.jpg

JACA JACA JACA JACA JACA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In your opinion, what was the best world cup final since 1966 ?
I don't talk about the result but about the game itself.
I think the worst was 1994 with a 0-0 but there were spectacular games too.

here's a couple random US stadiums from Local Live

Quest Field, Seattle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/hfhf.jpg


Citizens Bank Park, Philadelphia
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/hhggd.jpg


Lincoln Financial Field, Philadelphia
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/gf_curtis/hgjghg.jpg

1970 Brazil vs Italy in my opinion.

1986 Mexico: Argentina v. Germany.

1986 Mexico: Argentina v. Germany

Maradona won the World Cup on his own. Argentina without Maradona would of been average at best. Many teams at the World Cup were better than Argentina, but with Maradona in he team they became world beaters. Same goes for Napoli. Poor provincial team going nowhere. Maradona arrives and they win 2 Italian leagues in a row and the UEFA cup. He really was a one man team.

Pele was great, but he was surrounded by superb players which made his role far easier. Brazil would have probably won the World Cup without him.

but Maradona - he won the World Cup on his own. A genuine footballing genius that will never be seen again.

Glasgow Stadiums -


Ibrox -

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/8431/ibrox49zq.jpg


Hampden -

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/4011/hampden4as.jpg


Parkhead -

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/7208/parkhead6zo.jpg

Best...1970 a Pele inspired Brazil def Italy 4-1



Worst...1994 Brazil def Italy in a penalty shootout :bleep:

As seen here -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/mexico/estadio_azteca/120.jpg

I've seen three so far....and no one of them were really good...

'94 brazil vs italy, 0-0 tie....

'98 france whooped brazil

'02 germany didn't really have a chance

In Brasil the fans are against renovating the stadiums, because they are against SEATS in stadiums.

Right.

Anyways, having seats makes it SAFER.

Instead of hundreds trying to cram in a tight spot (chance of injuries, even death), you have your own little space.

My vote: 1986 Mexico: Argentina v. Germany.

1998

Great Britain v Australia, 1992 @ Wembley Stadium (Rugby League).

Well, you didn't specify which World Cup Final it was :runaway:

:jk: Ok ok, so you meant football. Hmmm....I would have to say England v West Germany also @ Wembley.

Nothing compare to Mexico'86 Argentina-Germany 3-2 Final!
Nothing worst than Italy'90 Germany-Argentina 1-0 Final!

I wish one day we'll see.... Brazil vs Nigeria in World Cup final
(remember how Nigeria won the Olympic Gold Medal by outclassed both Brazil and Argentina??)

Ataturk Olympic was built in 2001.... But... where? Can you tell me a reference? Airport, Highway, River?

I am listing and marking a lot of stadiums around the world.
I find all of Buenos Aires... All of Sao Paulo... all of London, except Fulham's Craven Cottage... In Istambul, only lacks to find the Ataturk Olympic.

Berlin Olympiastadion was under construction when they took the pictures.
It is in the west of the town.

Berlin: 52 30 54 31 N 13 14 28 48 E elevation 212ft Eye alt 2164ft

I think thats right, its near there anyway

I think, "nya Råsunda"
50 000 or 60 000 people and it been the biggest stadium in Scandinavia.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/sport/0512/24/SPORT-24s69-rasunda-896_368.jpg

Are people there still talking about maybe doing a euroleage? They talked about it a few years ago i remember with teams from Netherland, Belgium, Scandinavia and a few other countries....

I heard Scotland mentioned in a similar proposal...

I heard Scotland mentioned in a similar proposal...

I really don't see FIFA liking that idea.

It will never happen.

Parken by far. I see I'm not alone here.

It will never happen.
That's for sure. I'm sure Celtic would love it (and maybe Rangers too) but it's a pipe dream and nothing more.

Great Britain v Australia, 1992 @ Wembley Stadium (Rugby League).

Well, you didn't specify which World Cup Final it was :runaway:

:jk: Ok ok, so you meant football. Hmmm....I would have to say England v West Germany also @ Wembley.

He said the World Cup.

THE World Cup.

There's only one World Cup that can be the THE World Cup.

And that's the Football World Cup.

Rugby?

Please.

He said the World Cup.

THE World Cup.

There's only one World Cup that can be the THE World Cup.

And that's the Football World Cup.

Rugby?

Please.


Daft egg chasers

As far as I know....Botswana has only one stadium. National Stadium in Gaborone, 22,000 capacity, and rather uninspiring.

But the country with the worst stadiums (that goes for Cricket Stadiums too) is India.

mexico has one good one, Azteca, which may also need some modernization to it

Oh we have a few good ones not just one, and they will build a new stadium in Guadalajara, here some renders http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=296880

Right.

Anyways, having seats makes it SAFER.

Instead of hundreds trying to cram in a tight spot (chance of injuries, even death), you have your own little space.

Agree

Rugby?

Please.
This thread is about Football (soccer) World Cup.
I will soon post the same about Rugby

Wich RWC final was the best ?

BOSH!

http://www.tanahaka.de/pics/wilko_1.jpg

He said the World Cup.

THE World Cup.

There's only one World Cup that can be the THE World Cup.

And that's the Football World Cup.

Rugby?

Please.
Yesterday 09:53 PM

Small mindedness lives.

As an Aussie I HATE to admit this but for a thriller of a game, 2003.

Johnny Wilkinson should have been shot at birth. Damn Pommy bastard!!!

I'm totally biased and proud of it! 1966!!!! The summer of love and great football :D

I'm totally biased and proud of it! 1966!!!! The summer of love and great football :D

and a dodgy Russian linesman!

1998-St Denis: France - Brasil

Q: Country with the worst quality football stadiums?
A: Most of countries in Eastern Europe.

What about this for a crap national football stadium!!

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/samoa/toleafoa_blatter_football_fields/130.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/samoa/toleafoa_blatter_football_fields/120.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/samoa/toleafoa_blatter_football_fields/110.jpg

nice scenery though!

^^ At least the grass looks ok

Q: Country with the worst quality football stadiums?
A: Most of countries in Eastern Europe.

Maybe for European standards the stadiums are bad quality but not in they still have much better quality than Africa, Middle East and even most counries in South America. Take a look at the bids for Euro 2012. Poland/Ukraine and Craotia/Hungary are both in the last 3 and beat out Greece and Turkey and why don't you take a look at the stadiums they are going to build, get more up to date!

those planes flying overhead at Ellis park in 95...with madiba handing over the trophy to franscois pienaar.....more than priceless!!!! Nothing can compare

Maybe for European standards the stadiums are bad quality but not in they still have much better quality than Africa, Middle East and even most counries in South America. Take a look at the bids for Euro 2012. Poland/Ukraine and Craotia/Hungary are both in the last 3 and beat out Greece and Turkey and why don't you take a look at the stadiums they are going to build, get more up to date!

That's exactly what I was trying to say. Sorry for confusin u. :cheers:

Parken is the best stadium in Scandinavia. My reasons are:
1. It is an all-seater stadium!
2. Every seat is covered!
3. It has no columns that effects the view!
4. It has a retractable roof. (Columns are needed when the roof is closed!)

If anyone can beat these 4 demands, surprice me!
(I know Stockholm is getting a new stadium, but is doesn't exist yet!)

Nya Ullevi

Spain's stadiums are wonderful too: Santiago Bernabeu, Camp Nou, Estadio de la Cartuja, Mestalla, Vicente Calderon...

wrong thread, oopps

Parken is the best stadium in Scandinavia. My reasons are:
1. It is an all-seater stadium!
2. Every seat is covered!
3. It has no columns that effects the view!
4. It has a retractable roof. (Columns are needed when the roof is closed!)

If anyone can beat these 4 demands, surprice me!
(I know Stockholm is getting a new stadium, but is doesn't exist yet!)

I've heard before that Parken has a retractable roof but I have never seen a pic of it closed before. So if it does have a retractible roof, can someone post a pic of the stadium while it is closed?

I've heard before that Parken has a retractable roof but I have never seen a pic of it closed before. So if it does have a retractible roof, can someone post a pic of the stadium while it is closed?

http://www.fck.dk/grafik/billeder/2132005205738_LILLE-0051.jpg

But the roof sucks because it needs some extra columns to support the roof, and those columns blocks the view for many of the best seats for football (Including my season ticket seat). So it is only used for football when the weather is very bad, and would have meant a cancelling of the match without it.
A national team, UEFA cup, Champions League or a normal league match have never been played under the roof, only a couple of Royal League matches and one danish cup match.

Those blacks flags hanging from the roof is called "drapes", and they should make the sound quality better for concerts.

http://www.fck.dk/grafik/billeder/2132005205738_LILLE-0051.jpg

But the roof sucks because it needs some extra columns to support the roof, and those columns blocks the view for many of the best seats for football (Including my season ticket seat). So it is only used for football when the weather is very bad, and would have meant a cancelling of the match without it.
A national team, UEFA cup, Champions League or a normal league match have never been played under the roof, only a couple of Royal League matches and one danish cup match.

Those blacks flags hanging from the roof is called "drapes", and they should make the sound quality better for concerts.

The columns-situation should get sorted out (i.e. get rid of columns) when/if they get the D-stand rebuilt, though.

But yes, it sucks that they're needed now. The retractable roof is mainly a concert/other possible indoor'ish events-roof right now.
The column on the C-stand doesn't block that much of my view though :D And anyway, it's really rare that we have weather so bad that it requires a roof for football.

Gotta be the big one in Sweden, it's the most graceful out of all of them.

http://www.fck.dk/grafik/billeder/2132005205738_LILLE-0051.jpg

But the roof sucks because it needs some extra columns to support the roof, and those columns blocks the view for many of the best seats for football (Including my season ticket seat). So it is only used for football when the weather is very bad, and would have meant a cancelling of the match without it.
A national team, UEFA cup, Champions League or a normal league match have never been played under the roof, only a couple of Royal League matches and one danish cup match.

Those blacks flags hanging from the roof is called "drapes", and they should make the sound quality better for concerts.
warent there talks about using it against this sundays game against Schalke 04? I thought i heard that?

MY GOD!! When did Parken get a retractable roof? and how come nobody told me!!

Didn't you get the memo?

You must've been out.

MY GOD!! When did Parken get a retractable roof? and how come nobody told me!!
2001 i believe it was...

Didn't you get the memo?

You must've been out.

My secretary will get a good blastin for this outrage!!

This is my favourite Scandinavian stadium -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/index.php?template=stadionlisten&stadion=Stockholms%20Stadion&foto_ordner=Schweden/stockholms_stadion&id=1454

images from outside?

asdf

the delli alpi home to juventus and there two hundred supporters is a perfect example of a disastrous waste of money. the problem with many stadia in italy is that their not actually owned by the clubs for example the olimpico in Rome

I'm not sure who has the worst stadiums, obviously there is Africa, but you can't really expect a gret deal there. For a developed country, I'd have to say Poland, and most surprisingly, Italy!

Their playing american football in a soccer stadium because the NFL played one or two actual season games in Mexico to broaden the audience i guess and for money. They are also thinking about trying to play at Wembly stadium when its finished. They probably wont get to do that though.
Are you serious??? American football played at Wembley....THE Wembley..the home of (proper) football...is this some kind of joke??? That's like inviting a redneck yokel to give a speech at the Nobel Prsie winners convension...its just not right! If Americans wanna force that shit onto other countries, fine, but you cannot pollute Wembley! No offence intended btw :tongue2:

Everything doesnt matter, English stadiums are the best!
:okay: English and Spanish stadiums are deffinately the best :)

I'm not sure who has the worst stadiums, obviously there is Africa, but you can't really expect a gret deal there. For a developed country, I'd have to say Poland, and most surprisingly, Italy!


Are you serious??? American football played at Wembley....THE Wembley..the home of (proper) football...is this some kind of joke??? That's like inviting a redneck yokel to give a speech at the Nobel Prsie winners convension...its just not right! If Americans wanna force that shit onto other countries, fine, but you cannot pollute Wembley! No offence intended btw :tongue2:


:okay: English and Spanish stadiums are deffinately the best :)


Message to Americans - You thought I was bad!!!!!! Look at this idiot!!

^^ Get a grip on ureself Bubomb, I'm just havin a laugh, and I am certainly not gonna take any crap from you of all people, not when ure such a clear anti-English, jealous loser who agrivates just about everyone on these threads. You aint very popular on the 'Twickenham Stadium' Thread either are you eh, not after posting all the riddiculous shit that marked you as a deluded, bitter Scotsman. The worst thing about you is, no matter how many people you annoy (and you have annoyed a lot), you never seem to learn, that's why I do not want to start another arguement with you, becasue from what I've seen of you, it would be like talking to an exceptionally bland brick wall.

I am pretty sure botswana or sudan have worse stadiums than argentina or italy

The worst stadiums for who they are.

Any Stadium at all.



http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/RELIANT_STADIUM/Reliant.png


This one please...I'll place it in Stanley Park, Liverpool...and it will be the new Home of Liverpool FC.

Somebody place Bank of America Stadium from Charlotte, NC to Glendale, AZ. Oh, put in a bigger Daktronics ProStar display, put a retractable field on it, and change the seat colors to Cardinal Red and Black.

I'd have this at White Hart Lane

http://www.rp-online.de/layout/showbilder/1491-porto_ap_fcporto.jpg

http://www.fcporto.pt/Imagens/8553.jpg

Can it be a golf course? If so, I'd take Augusta National and bung it just across the street from my place.

Stadium wise, I'd take Lord's and make it the local clubs cricket ground.

Allianz Arena moved to Southampton, UK as the home of Southampton FC :)

http://img148.echo.cx/img148/3295/aa019lf.jpg

and this stadium could be Southampton's athletics facility...

http://www.mit.edu/~suebel/MunichPhotos/68-OlympiaTurmView-Stadium.jpg

http://www.ce.ntu.edu.tw/photo/spatial/spa8bThe%20Munich%20Olympic%20Stadium,%20Munich.jpg

new Wembley for Galatasaray :D

a mix of Bernabeu, Nou Camp and Highbury-stadium as the Amsterdam Arena :)
Celtic Park as the National stadium of the Netherlands :banana:

^ I think you're better off with the Amsterdam Arena....

^ I think you're better off with the Amsterdam Arena....

:bash: Not. Arena sucks as a football stadium.

if we can mix
New Wembley+Allianz Arena+Da Luz
for Galatasaray
:D

^ now you're just getting greedy!

^^^
:D
hey
we are waiting since 1994 for a new stadium (4 different projects-> 0 new stadium)

Anybody want the Metrodome in Minneapolis. We don't.

:bash: Not. Arena sucks as a football stadium.
why? whats wrong?

I'll take New Wembley or the San Siro and bring one of them to Chicago for our 2016 Olympic bid.

^ trust me with San Siro you wouldnt get past the USOC bidding process let alone the IOC shortlist :D!

Any Stadium at all.



http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/RELIANT_STADIUM/Reliant.png


This one please...I'll place it in Stanley Park, Liverpool...and it will be the new Home of Liverpool FC.

i agree with you, eddy. there's just something about the reliant stadium. it's just awe-inspiring. all i'd ask for as a red is a distinctive kop end be put in, that's it.

Allianz Arena in Chicago. For what, I don't know. Just to stare at the pretty colors I suppose.

[QUOTE=Madman]http://img148.echo.cx/img148/3295/aa019lf.jpg



QUOTE]

this will be great as East Tijuana, recreation center

Da Luz in blue, and a retractable roof over the hole for the new Cowboys stadium.

new Wembley for Galatasaray :D


Why? It would almost never be full, would it? I think your better of with new ali samiyen or what it is called.

Personally im am happy with our new upcoming stadium for GAIS (http://www.gais.se)

^^^
yeh
90,000 would be too much
but 75,000 would be good :D

There is a huge demand
but the people want a new stadium

Any Stadium at all.



http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/RELIANT_STADIUM/Reliant.png


This one please...I'll place it in Stanley Park, Liverpool...and it will be the new Home of Liverpool FC.

They'd want a few changes I'd guess such as the roof covering all the seats when open plus the exterior doesnt really say soccer/football stadium to me at the moment.

The ideal stadium for Liverpool would IMHO be something similar on the inside but with multi tiers and directors boxes on three sides then one massive uninterrupted stand as a new kop end.

Oh yeah..the exterior.

I think its more like a shopping centre or something.


I just chose that one because IMO it's the best stadium in the NFL...not my fave...but certainly the most pratical for soccer.

Istanbul Ataturk Olympic Stadium:
http://img342.imageshack.us/img342/4484/untitled1sd5yz.jpg


Nice.



I havn't been on google earth in a while...might take a few screen grabs of some stadiums.

I found something interresting on worldstadiums today that baghdad will have a new stadium built in 2008 with 80.000 seats.
If anyone has pics or infos pls post them !

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/baghdad_olympic.jpg

Worldstadiums (http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/baghdad_olympic.shtml)

I would be willing to bet my life for a fiver that this stadium is not built in the near future. I'm sure they will build a stadium one day, but it will be a long time away.

more info....

http://www.cbuilding.biz/Completed%20Projects/Pic5.htm

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here we go...


Copenhagen Chosen Host City For 2009 IOC Congress

Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 6:11 am ET (GamesBids.com)

Copenhagen Denmark has been chosen by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to host the 13th Olympic Congress and the meetings of the Executive Board in 2009.

The victory came after a 59-40 vote against Cairo in the fifth and final round.

According to the IOC, the 13th Olympic Congress will bring together all the constituent parties of the Olympic Movement to study and discuss the current functioning of the Movement and define the main development axes for the future.

The host city for the 2016 Summer Olympic Games will also be elected at the 2009 meeting.

Athens, Busan, Riga, Singapore, and Taipei were eliminated in earlier rounds. Mexico City and Lausanne opted out from bidding.

"We are deeply moved that you've given us your confidence to host the 2009 session...on behalf of my people, my government, my organization, thank you from the bottom of our hearts" remarked Denmark's IOC member Kai Holm to the IOC session after the vote.

There were concerns that Muslim outrage over cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed printed in a Danish newspaper had put the IOC members in a difficult position to vote for Copenhagen, but Rogge had insisted the vote would have no relation to the International situation. He said, “we are speaking of a sporting session in 2009 and it will not have an impact. If Copenhagen wins it will be from membership that is absolutely universal from 70 countries".
--------------------
The Election For The 13th IOC Olympic Congress

2/04/06 - Editor

The election for host city of the 13th Olympic congress in 2009 is quietly hidden in the agenda of this month’s IOC session in Torino, but it is quickly heating up. IOC members will make their decision on February 8th – and they will be choosing the location for what is perhaps the most important Olympic meeting in years to come.

More than a mere session, an IOC congress happens no more than once a decade and was last held in 1994 in Paris.

According to IOC documents “…The Olympic Congress brings together representatives of parties that make up the Olympic Movement, i.e. the IOC, National Olympic Committees, the International Sports Federations, the Organizing Committees for the Olympic Games, the athletes, representatives of coaches, officials and the media as well as other participants and observers.”

This time the IOC has approved eight cities. Still in the running are Athens, Cairo, Copenhagen, Lausanne Switzerland, Busan South Korea, Riga Latvia, Singapore and Taipei. Mexico City dropped out of the running last month.

The large number of interested cities is probably a surprise to the IOC – the last bid was for an IOC session in 2007 where the host city of the 2014 Olympic Winter Games will be elected, and it attracted only three bidders. Guatemala City defeated Durban and Copenhagen in August 2004 but the overall election campaign drew very little interest from the press.

Perhaps the high-profile 2012 Olympic Games bid election held last year at the IOC session in Singapore raised the overall appeal for hosting IOC meetings. Not only did that meeting attract a record number of delegates and members of the media, but it hosted internationally famous people and world leaders such as British Prime Minister Tony Blair, Hilary Clinton and David Beckham among dozens of others. The Raffles Center in Singapore grabbed headlines around the world.

For 2009 the stakes will be higher. Early conservative estimates suggest that 7,500 people will attend the congress including IOC members, NOC and sports federation representatives, and members of the media, and that number is expected to increase over the next two years. The meeting could be the most important in sports history to date.

On the meeting agenda will be the election of the next IOC president or the acceptance of current President Jacques Rogge for an additional term; a vote on what sports will be added or dropped for the 2016 Summer Games; and the election of the host city for the 2016 Summer Games which is already shaping up to be a battle similar to the 2012 bid. Special congress agenda items will cover issues important to the future of sport and the Olympic movement.

It’s no wonder that several cities want to be part of this event. In many cases countries that aren’t yet capable of hosting the Olympic Games will take this opportunity or others like it to participate and raise their profiles within the Olympic movement.

The campaign for the 2009 Congress kicked off in late October of last year when the IOC published the list of accepted candidates. But the IOC isn’t making it easy for these cities to present themselves in the best possible light – and there must be concerns that the members won’t have enough information to make the best decision.

The IOC has allotted only ten minutes for a single representative of each bid to present shortly before the vote takes place. The presentations will be verbal and will not contain any audio-visual material. Fallout from the bid bribery scandal of almost a decade ago means that bid representatives may not contact any IOC members directly, so in many cases members will have to cast their votes based on what they read in an IOC compiled fact sheet and the bland ten-minute presentations.

Another challenge created by the IOC is accepting bids from nine candidates (of which eight still remain). The IOC will use the same voting procedure that is used to elect Games hosts – a winner is declared after receiving 50 per cent plus one of the number of votes cast. Additionally, IOC members who represent countries that are on the ballot may not cast a vote, which means that on the first ballot less than 100 votes will be split up eight ways. This will result in very narrow voting margins in the early rounds and the possibility of overall favorites falling off the ballot before getting a serious chance.

It is widely accepted that the two leading contenders are Copenhagen and Busan. The drawbacks for the other bids are that Athens’ recently hosted the 2004 Olympic Games, Singapore’s hosting of the IOC session last year, security concerns with Cairo and Taipei, and lack of facilities in Lausanne and Riga. However with the current voting and campaign process this theory may never come to fruition and the competition will still be open to all. Expect a surprise or two.

Regardless of the outcome, it is clear that the IOC needs to reform the site selection process for official meetings now that they are becoming almost as glamorous as the Games themselves

muslims of Egypt will have another reason to burn the danish embassy... :jk:

They are having a hard enough time re-building their country. A new stadium really shouldnt even be thought about until many more infastructures are put in place.

at least this one won't have to be equipped with shredders.

One of my main gripes about these new 'Ikea flat-pack' stadiums that are popping up everywhere, is the end of the traditional floodlights. Being an 80's kid, the first thing you would look for when going to a game in the car with your dad would be the towering floodlights. So let's see some great floodlights that are still in use!! (the commie bowls always had amazing ones) -


Russia -

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/RUS/Dinamo_Moskva_A.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/RUS/Dinamo_Moskva.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/RUS/Kirov_A.jpeg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/RUS/Kirov.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/RUS/Petrovskiy_A2.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/russland/petrovskiy/190.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/russland/petrovskiy/170.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/russland/petrovskiy/100.jpg


Ukraine -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/ukraine/nsk_olimpiyskyi/120.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/UKR/Olympiyskiy_A.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/UKR/Olimpiyskyi_UEFA.jpeg


Poland -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/polen/stadion_slaski/100.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/polen/stadion_slaski/120.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/polen/stadion_slaski/130.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/polen/lech/140.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/polen/lech/160.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/polen/lech/240.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/polen/lech/270.jpg


Bulgaria -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/bulgarien/vassil_levski/180.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/BUL/Vassil_Levski2.jpg


Romania -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/rumaenien/lia_manoliu/110.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/rumaenien/lia_manoliu/120.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/rumaenien/lia_manoliu/140.jpg


Hungary -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/ungarn/puskas_ferenc_stadion/270.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/ungarn/puskas_ferenc_stadion/140.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/ungarn/puskas_ferenc_stadion/120.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/ungarn/uelloi_ut/170.jpg


England -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/england/deepdale/140.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/england/deepdale/110.jpg


Italy -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/friuli/230.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/friuli/100.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renzo_barbera/210.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renzo_barbera/240.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renzo_barbera/290.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renzo_barbera/300.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/oreste_granillo/170.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/oreste_granillo/100.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/giglio/120.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renato_dall_ara/100.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renato_dall_ara/130.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renato_dall_ara/170.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renato_dall_ara/160.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/renato_dall_ara/110.jpg


Scotland -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/schottland/firhill_stadium/410.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/schottland/firhill_stadium/310.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/schottland/firhill_stadium/120.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/schottland/firhill_stadium/140.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/schottland/firhill_stadium/260.jpg

the reebok:

http://www.duesselhopper.de/Bolton4.jpg

I can't believe I forgot about the Reebok!!

Alfred McAlpine Stadium -

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/england/alfred_mcalpine_stadium/120_am.jpg

not forgetting our aussie cousins - the MCG (old pic but how huge are those floodlights! strewth!):

http://www.fussballtempel.net/ofc/AUS/MCG_A.jpg

Melbourne Cricket Ground (MCG)
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9067/mcg135ya.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/sirbugalugs/dawnpics/pics%200141_filtered.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b140/DrunkOku/Drunkills%20random%20crap/P1000562.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/auboy/mcg.jpg


Not your usual type of lights, but still flood lights nonetheless. They are 85meters tall, so quite high.
The MCG has been redeveloped over the past 3 years in the buildup to next months commonwealth games, so thats why there is a running track and the rigging overhead that's not normally there.


AAMI Stadium (Adelaide)
http://www.afana.com/img/ADE_WCE_QF9.jpg
http://www.mawsonlakeshotel.com.au/images/superbox/footballpark.jpg
http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/photos/aami6.jpg

WACA (Western Australia)
http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/photos/waca1.jpg
http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/photos/waca2.jpg

SCG (Sydney Cricket Ground)
http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/photos/scg.jpg
http://www.rediff.com/sports/austour/sydn1.jpg

GABBA Brisbane
http://www.thegabba.org.au/graphics/images/Gabba%20Aerial%20Completed.jpg



Just a few of Australias ones that i could pull up.

De Kuip (Stadion Feijenoord), Rotterdam, The Netherlands
http://www.nordostfussball.de/stadien/steuropa/nl_de_kuip/rotterdam03.jpg

Parkstad Limburg Stadion, Kerkrade, The Netherlands
http://www.beijen.net/frank/club/sroda-jc2000.jpg

Arke Stadion, Enschede, The Netherlands
http://www.voortmanstaalbouw.nl/staalbouw/referenties/afb/Foto%20Arke%20Stadion1.jpg

Koning Boudewijn Stadion/Stade Roi Baudouin, Brussels, Belgium
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/belgium/brussels_koning_boudewijn1.jpg

Floodlights are here to stay in at least the cricket playing nations - the Telstra Dome's lights led to a lot of fielders losing the ball. It's fine for football, but lights that are merely mounted on the roof just make a small white ball very hard to find.

Wolves were the first team to play a football match under floodlights against Honved in Wolverhampton, England.

The match was shown live on BBC1

Great thread! those Eastern Bloc stadiums are superb!

cool post. The architecture of those light supports are interesting ... being more vertical than american floodlights. I wonder what the difference is in light coverage, vertical as opposed to horizontal. I agree with your assessment, that its great traveling to the stadium and seeing those lights looming in the distance.

Great thread, I too remember as a kid travelling to a game and always looking out for the floodlights. Does anyone know of a Stadium under construction at the moment that will have traditional floodlights?

Some from baseball

http://static.flickr.com/31/48511170_1d1aaffaef_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/26/56316341_63c3aed269_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/29/36552030_7c7b2d58d0_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/14/19818000_36b0b9e5d6_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/21/27551412_4da9946d50_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/23/31689241_d7e96394f9_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/19/23174962_d790f0cc21_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/13/18005995_2ea86fbb26_b.jpg

Wolves were the first team to play a football match under floodlights against Honved in Wolverhampton, England.

The match was shown live on BBC1


Are you sure? I thought it was Lisburn Distillery on March 25, 1953, who were the first club ever to play a competitive match under floodlights in the British Isles. I don't know about Europe or worldwide though!!

http://blue.srv2.com/~lisburn/Book%20review%20-%20Sunday%20Life.htm

Wolves v Honved was 6 months later -

http://home.swipnet.se/~w-57029/wolves/flood.htm

The Olympic Stadium in Amsterdam got floodlights in 1934. The first game under artificial lights in Europe was also played here, Ajax - PSV on 23 october 1929. Philips had borrowed tram wires from Amsterdam Public Transport and hung them at 15 metres high across the The small Pitch . It was a miracle that the ball never hit any of the 64 lights.

Are you sure? I thought it was Lisburn Distillery on March 25, 1953, who were the first club ever to play a competitive match under floodlights in the British Isles. I don't know about Europe or worldwide though!!

The MCG had its first football match played under floodlights in 1879. :) The technology wasn't very well developed though - and it took over 100 years before the MCG had the current lights installed in 1985.

http://www.fussballtempel.net/concacaf/MEX/Olimpico_Mexico2.jpg

http://www.pumas.unam.mx/imagenes/instalaciones/estadio-01.jpg

Mexico City, Olympic Stadium

Some more info about he MCG light towers:

The MCG light towers were first used for an event on the 17 February 1985, for a World Series Cup one-day international between Australia and England.

The light tower system comprises of 6 light towers which stand between 72 and 78 metres high (equivalent to a 24 story building) with the head frame a further 10 metres higher (72 to 88 metres overall).

The foundations for the towers consist of 4 reinforced concrete piers which are set down in depth from 7 to 12 metres depending on the sub surface structure. Each of the hollow tubular steel towers contains about 130 tonnes of steel. The diameter reduces from 4.2 metres at the base to 2 metres at the top. There are between 12 and 14 landings connecting ladders inside each tower. The head frames of the towers are angled in at 15 Degrees in order to provide optimum levels of light.

Power to the light towers is supplied off an 11kV electrical ring main into a transformer inside the base of each tower, which reduces the voltage down to 415 volts. The total power consumption at any given time is approximately 1800Kilowatts.

Total Consumption for a year would be approximately 720,000kWh, this is based upon a running time of 400 hours over a twelve month term.

For comparison, your average 3 bedroom home with an airconditioner and 4 family members consumes approximately 390kWh per month or 4680 kWh per year.

Each light tower has an average of 140 no. 2KW (2000-Watt) Metal Halide lamps within the head frame. The number of lamps in each tower varies relative to their position to the central wicket area. The lamps have an effective life of approximately 5000 running hours and about 30 lamps on average are replaced each year.

The vertical design level of illumination is 1500 lux. The most recent checks carried out in February 2004 averaged 1800 lux. The levels of lighting are achieved by the computer generated individual setting of all 844 lamps to predetermined angles to provide maximum coverage of the arena without any shadowed or dark spot areas. Computer simulation of tower shadows was used to position towers so as to minimise shadows on the pitch area.

Average illumination is 15-20 times that of domestic lighting, which is more than sufficient for the demands of colour TV broadcasting.

You will notice that in the head frame of the towers where the lights are mounted that there are gaps or what appears to be blown lamps, this is in actual fact spaces where lights are not required as they would not improve the optimum level of lighting.

The lights take approximately 10 minutes to become fully illuminated. If the lights are turned off they can not be turned back on for another 15 minutes as they require time to cool down and then warm back up (re-strike time).

The Athens Olympic stadium had huge floodlights before renovation for the 2004 Olympic games. Now the lights are across the roof.

Pre-Olympics:
http://www.stadia.gr/oaka/oaka7apoolympic.jpg
http://www.stadia.gr/oaka/oaka.jpg
http://www.stadia.gr/oaka/oaka3.jpg

During/Post-Olympics:
http://www.stadia.gr/oaka/oakaworks35.jpg
http://www.stadia.gr/oaka/oakaworks40th.jpg
http://www.stadia.gr/oaka/oakaolympics1.jpg

Very impressive for a state high school. Texas 5A football is the best in the nation.

http://www.cfisd.net/bond/esc/esc1.jpg
http://www.cfisd.net/bond/esc/esc3.jpg
http://www.cfisd.net/bond/esc/ESC6.jpg
http://www.cfisd.net/bond/esc/esc4.jpg
http://www.cfisd.net/bond/esc/ESC%20site%20plan.jpg
http://www.cfisd.net/bond/esc/ESC5.jpg
http://www.cfisd.net/bond/esc/ESC%20with%20stadium.jpg

Other nice Texas state high school football facilities.

Garland (near Dallas, TX):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/lobos/vsnorthgarlandbi/6.jpg

Round Rock (near Austin, TX):
http://www.agcaustin.org/content/public/photogallery/Installation%202004/Aerial%20View.jpg

DeSoto:
http://img99.echo.cx/img99/9176/bendial22oi.jpg
http://img42.echo.cx/img42/931/bendial31dx.jpg
http://img93.echo.cx/img93/8211/bendial19im.jpg

Jesse Owens stadium (near Dallas):
http://12.45.130.5/SS/bin/site/content/DISD/ImagesAUSTIN/835/Gallery/5%20-%20Stadium%20070705%20002.jpg
http://12.45.130.5/SS/bin/site/content/DISD/ImagesAUSTIN/835/Gallery/5%20-%20Stadium%20070705%20003.jpg

Waco ISD Stadium (Waco, TX):
http://www.wacoisd.org/images/backsidehome_slide.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/texas/waco_isd.jpg

Kimbrough Stadium (Plano, TX):
http://www.planowildcatqbclub.org/new_stadium/images/13_january4_jpg.jpg
http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/rantanamo/HighSchoolStadiums/Kimbrough2.jpg

Scharbauer Sports Complex (Midland, TX)
http://www.ci.midland.tx.us/gallery/Fb%20pics/fb83.jpg
http://www.ci.midland.tx.us/gallery/Fb%20pics/fb98.jpg
http://www.ci.midland.tx.us/gallery/Fb%20pics/fb2.jpg
http://www.ci.midland.tx.us/gallery/Fb%20pics/fb5.jpg
http://www.ci.midland.tx.us/gallery/Fb%20pics/fb9200.jpg

Dragon Stadium (Southlake Carroll High School- near Dallas, TX):
http://img6.photobucket.com/albums/v19/rantanamo/HighSchoolStadiums/DragonStadium2.jpg
http://www.shwsports.com/big/carrolls2.jpg

Galena Park Stadium (near Houston, TX):
http://www.flexicoreoftexas.com/pix/5_02/stadium2.jpg



There are tons more that I didn't post. Will post if y'all want to see more.

Simply amazing for high school facilties.

High School!!!!!!!!! OMG!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

I was wondering about standard of big stadiums like the one in Pyong Yang, Maracana, Teheran etc. Are they up to date as far as spectator comfort, amenities. Maracana looks like giant hole that can hold a whole lot of people, it´s legendary but it´s far from being good for spectators.

I guess the phrase "it's bigger in Texas" applies to high school sporting venues.

I sincerely doubt any of these stadiums are upto scratch.

As for Pyong Yang- in a country that cares more for developing WMDs whilst starving its population to death, probably wouldn't even care less if the seats were made out of wood, to someone getting stampeded or plunging to their deaths from the upper tiers at the annual Communist festivals they constantly seem to have there.

The best stadiums are usually much smaller, better quality and more beautiful.

great venues. Post as many as you like. The only unfortunate thing is perhaps the double sport pitch markings
I think all this american school and college sports is fantastic. I wish we could have that kind of thing in europe instead of small towns hosting low level teams fighting for promotions that their town can never really sustain anyway.

Oh aye, big doesn't mean best when it comes to stadiums.

I'd sooner have the Reebok Stadium in ths country than say...the Pyong Yang.


The Maracana is currently going through a refit...it's now an all seater.

I was wondering about standard of big stadiums like the one in Pyong Yang, Maracana, Teheran etc. Are they up to date as far as spectator comfort, amenities. Maracana looks like giant hole that can hold a whole lot of people, it´s legendary but it´s far from being good for spectators.

Even the Nou Camp is pretty average once you're inside. And the less said about the old Wembley the better.

the large US college stadiums are a mixed bag. the majority of seats are typical bench style college seats. The club levels and suite areas though, are as nice as any stadium in the world. Often nicer as to entertain fat cat alumni that donate to the schools and athletic programs.

The larger NFL stadiums are as nice as any that you'll find anywhere as well with all of the modern amenities.

I sincerely doubt any of these stadiums are upto scratch.

As for Pyong Yang- in a country that cares more for developing WMDs whilst starving its population to death, probably wouldn't even care less if the seats were made out of wood, to someone getting stampeded or plunging to their deaths from the upper tiers at the annual Communist festivals they constantly seem to have there.

The best stadiums are usually much smaller, better quality and more beautiful.

I wouldnt actually be supprized if Pyongyang has pretty good facilties, it certainly doesnt look like a typical commie stadium and from what I'v heard the north koreans do tend to invest massively in that kind of figurehead project.

Here are some old pictures of Ullevi Stadium. It was built for the football world cup in 1958 and was expanded for the athletics world championships in 1995. In 1993 everyday league football left Ullevi for the renovated Gamla (old) Ullevi. Since then the number of big events has increased for every year. This year it will host the european championships in athletics. And Rolling Stones will play there the 10th of June.

http://web.comhem.se/~u31224091/Ullevi5.jpg

http://web.comhem.se/~u31224091/Ullevi4.jpg

http://web.comhem.se/~u31224091/Ullevi3.jpg

http://web.comhem.se/~u31224091/Ullevi2.jpg

http://web.comhem.se/~u31224091/Ullevi7.jpg

Estádio Cícero Pompeu de Toledo (Morumbi), São Paulo

http://www.fussballtempel.net/conmebol/BRA/Morumbi_A.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/conmebol/BRA/Morumbi3.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/conmebol/BRA/Morumbi5.jpg

MY GOD!! When did Parken get a retractable roof? and how come nobody told me!!

Its more a fold-out roof than retractable. Its a white fabric between steel girders.
It only cost around £10 million and is a simple construction that I think can easily be added to any venue with existing stands of a level height.

A coloumn is needed to support the added weight as the existing roofs werent designed for it but it doesnt matter much as the roof was only added to make Parken a concert venue.

I am also beginning to hate soccer stadiums with athletics tracks how boring and stupid!!!
I totally agree!

TORINO OLIMPICO STADIUM - 2006 WINTER OLYMPIC GAMES

MCG - 2006 COMMONWEATLH GAMES

BERLIN OLYMPIC STADIUM - 2006 FIFA WORLD CUP

GO wild....

Just like the title says:

What is the biggest sporting event held in your country every year?

For Australia I would probably go with the Melboune Cup.

Just like the title says:

What is the biggest sporting event held in your country every year?

For Australia I would probably go with the Melboune Cup.
For the USA, The Indy 500, the largest single day annual sporting event in the world. Nationally though, the Superbowl is probably bigger.

I'm not a huge fan of either...

Do you mean a competition as in a league, or a one-off game as in a Cup final? The biggest event in Scotland by far is the SPL, but the Scottish Cup final, World Cup qualifiers and some Rugby games have massive interest which is far far bigger than your average SPL game. But the 228 SPL games in total far outweigh one big final/qualifier.

he said annual event - that suggests an event not a league..!!

Then Indy 500?? mmmmm...NO. ....

For the U.S.
1. Super Bowl (by a big margin)
2. National Championship College football
3. world series/baseball
4. college basketball national championship
5. Indy 500 or Kentucky Derby

he said annual event - that suggests an event not a league..!!

No, the SPL is an annual event. It is played annually and is an event that takes place over a number of weeks every year.

'What is the biggest sporting single day event held in your country every year' is what I think you are trying to say!!

Then Indy 500?? mmmmm...NO. ....

For the U.S.
1. Super Bowl (by a big margin)
2. National Championship College football
3. world series/baseball
4. college basketball national championship
5. Indy 500 or Kentucky Derby

Ahem. Google is your friend. In the future, use it before you post. Use this link: www.fuckinggoogleit.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_500
"the largest single-day sporting event worldwide in both on-grounds attendance and international audience (recent estimates placing the latter in excess of 320 million)."

Like the thread asks, The Indy 500 is the biggest annual sporting event in the world, which of course makes it the USA's biggest annual sporting event. 750,000 attend bodily, it's televised worldwide and has participants from everywhere in the world.

But, as I stated, it isn't the most popular or culturally relevant event in the USA, particularly when you consider tv audience. It's just the biggest. Too bad the thread title is "Your countries biggest annual sporting event?", Not "Your countries most popular sporting event that is ignored by the rest of the world", or your little list may have some credibility in relation to this thread.

Yes, believe it or not, the most popular sporting event in the USA isn't the most important sporting event in the world. It's a big world out there...

By the way, Indy annually has #4 on your list as well.

Well if you are talking in terms of international standing Australias biggest sporting event is the Australian F1 Grand Prix held in Melbourne.

I would imagine the UK's biggest annual sporting event would be the London Marathon. With almost 50,000 runners and upwards of half a million spectators lining the route

http://www.london-marathon.co.uk/site/spectators/

Well it was always the July handicap, or maybe the comrades marathon, but now I thinks its deff the A1 grand prix, in Durban, South Africa

In terms of the amount at stake I'd say the division 1/championship playoff final would be near the top.