Ok, so I get the blame for pointing out the rubbish that some people were posting on here.

Maybe if more than just Fred2 had objected to the crap that was being posted then I would not have had to post as much as I did - however, at the start off this thread there was very little comment from the Lioners pointing out the ridiculous nature of some off No1's posts.

Compare this to how EB is smacked down regularly (and I have here) by Mancs, and I think that goes some way to explaining the reaction in this thread.

Keep the nutty fringe element under control, that way the outsiders won't take offence and come in all guns blazing.

FFS, it's like a primary school playground in this thread. Several people need to read through their posts and hopefully realise how utterly stupid they look to the rest of us. :bash:

The sad thing is that this thread will be kicked off yet again in about 2 months with the usual suspects posting the same load of rubbish. Please take it to the city bashing thread in city talk.

Looks like we're reaching D-day on this fight stuff...

Its best to keep this City vs City crap out of project forums. Forumers who have been here for more than 2 weeks should know that topics like this will end up in a firefight.
It sadly overshadows project discussion and messes it up for those who want to talk about the development of the city.
Why on earth a newbie would just come along and create this topic as their first post is beyond me :ohno:

Why on earth a newbie would just come along and create this topic as their first post is beyond me :ohno:

Coz he's got a problem....?

That's nearly all I have to say having read today's posts. Metrolink provides a very logical argument against what he probably sees as a very puerile and meaningless thread.

The relative status of cities isn't really about infrastructure like motorways, trams lines, and posh shops......it concerns more the real economy; the volume of things like media production, volume of transactions handled by domestic and overseas banks, academic research, venture capitalists and accountants etc.

Yes, Leeds is an important regional capital, and so are Manchester and Birmingham.

Is Leeds catching up? Never needed to really.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

if you all want to express your love for your respective cities, then i have some advice for you. close this window. turn off your computer. step, blinking, out into the evening sun, and DO SOMETHING. anything. for god's sake, don't keep this thread going any longer.

OK I could only read so far before I have to say something....

Here goes..Leeds as nice and as pleasent as it is..is definitely playing catch up with Manchester, no question. When Leeds have the busiest airport outside of London, the busiest mainline rail station outside of London, The largest student population in Europe, The largest University in the country, is the only city in the UK outside of London that shows up on the European list of top 20 business destinations, Public transport that befits a big city and 25% of the whole of the UK's motorway network running through it.. THEN it can claim to be on a par with Manchester..until then there is no argument really. As for all this population nonsense, Old Trafford is less than a mile from Manchester City Centre, does anyone on here seriously believe that anyone living in OT doesn't say they live in Manchester?? They don't pay their council tax to MCC but when they jump on a bus or tram and its says City Centre; which city do you think they are heading towards? Salford? NO obviously not. Our city-region has a population approaching 3.16m, even my own parents who live in Leigh (under Wigan council control) say they live in Manchester, its nearly 20 miles from the city centre. If we only count the actual city boundaries then London is the smallest city in the UK, tiny in fact. Wembley is in Middlesex and the Houses of Parliment are in the City of Westminster. Oh and all this talk on here about counting The West Mids as Birminghams conurbation is a nonsense. The West Midlands is a REGION not a county, Birmingham is in the County of Warwickshire. Greater Manchester is a county, our region is The North West, should we include everything in the North West? No of course we shouldn't. Leeds in my opinion is a better city then Birmingham in lots of ways and it knocks spots off Liverpool too, but remember..while you catch up with Manchester, Manchester won't be standing still, all the time Leeds in growing so is Manchester and wer'e already miles ahead. Im sorry if this ruffles some feathers but theres no escaping it. Whoever posted this thread in the first place was always on to a loser..sorry.

Yeah that's why it's called the County of the West Midlands because it's not a county what the????, of course the West Midlands is a county. Birmingham is not in Warwickshire any more than Manchester is in Lancashire. Try getting your facts right first. Also Birmingham New Street and Glasgow central have a lot more passengers each year than Manchester Picadilly.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Stations/stations/BirminghamNewStreet/Default.aspx

and our coach station is the Hub of the Uk network as is our motorway network and the M6 Stafford to Birmingham is the busiest stretch of Motorway in Europe. The NEC is the busiest exhibition space in Europe and the biggest in the Uk.

http://www.necgroup.co.uk/visitor/thenec/

But so what who cares about all these petty facts. Birmingham is a bigger city than Manchester and better positioned in the centre of the country, you could go on for ever.
If you include where your parents live 20miles from the city centre as Manchester then can I include Stratford on Avon 20miles from Birmingham and Warwick and Leamington Spa and Coventry and Wolverhampton anywhere else within a 20 mile radius. Please get your facts right before coming on these forums again.

' the busiest mainline rail station outside of London, The largest student population in Europe, The largest University in the country, is the only city in the UK outside of London that shows up on the European list of top 20 business destinations' Leeds has already claimed all of those succesfully though, whether it is true or not- theres nothing concrete to say it is or isnt. Birmingham NS, Leeds and Glasgow Central are all busier stastions, perhaps if Victoria and Picadilly were merged it might be able to compete.

So glad this has started again - Roly, you need a good slap, some off those figures about train station, university are very hard to backup irrefutably (as has been discussed elsewhere). There was also no need whatsoever to start having a go at Brum, this conversation was nothing to do with Brum, comments like the one you made were only going to provoke a reaction.

No1 - I also guess you'd be able to provide undeniable evidence for any off your claims, especially the one about being in the top 20 places to do business - I do look forward to this.

Hasn't this thread been done to death now, most people have had their say, and have a good idea where the two cities lie, prehaps that is what we should do, leave this to lie.
(Maybe an admin could lock it).

Well if Manchster is in the top 20 places to do business in Europe, but Leeds is the best place to do business in the UK then sureley it comes somewhere between Manchester and the top place to do business in Europe. www.uksfavouritecity.com has a factsheet which shows sources of facts to back them up.

@LN1 Oh right so Leeds City Councils website says Leeds is the best place for business in the UK and that means its true? My soursce is http://www.thenorthernway.co.uk/docs/appendices/manchester.doc
read and weep.

@BRUMMIE NICK The West Midlands IS a REGION, not a county. Just like Notts is in The East Midlands, but is in the County of Nottinghamshire..no??

As for my facts and figures..take a look for yourself, do some research, I did.

Oh shut up all of you and grow up. This thread has been done to death on countless occasions. Don't even consider transfering the argument to the relocating from the US thread either.

Have the school holidays not finished yet?

Roly - seriously, this has all been discussed before, give it a rest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Midlands_metropolitan_county) suggests that there is a county called the West Midlands.

Lioners - Leeds is described in http://www.thenorthernway.co.uk/docs/appendices/leeds.doc in the Northernway document - essentially a government document.

Are there any Leeds admins who could close this thread?

Metrolink who do you think you are exactly? Just because youve had your say(and plenty to say by the looks of it) does it mean no one else can?
It may have been discussed before but I responded after reading it for the first time. What is a forum for? Train spotting?

Roly - you rely on a link which extends the definition of Manchester to a City Region with a population of 3,159,573. When you start going down that road Manchester will always win hands down against Leeds. After all, the total population of West Yorkshire (which cannot be called Leeds City region) is only just over 2 million !

Roly your very confused, it's like this

Manchester City, in the county of Greater Manchester in the region of the North West

Birmingham City, in the county of the West Midlands in the region of the Midlands

of course the West Midlands is a county just like Greater Manchester look it up anywhere. Didn't I tell you not to come on here again till you have researched your facts.

Sorry Leeds forumers that I have to reply to this very misinformed person (being polite) on your thread.

Well I concede Brummie Nick.. I did look it up and the West Mids is indeed a county, soz for being such a dim wit. I was told a while back by a brummie that it was in Warwickshire and I just assumed he would know what he was on about, obviously not. I always thought the West Mids was a county until he told me oherwise...Go on then, give me a slap I deserve it.

Does this mean that Leeds isn't playing catch up with Manchester?

Roly - you rely on a link which extends the definition of Manchester to a City Region with a population of 3,159,573. When you start going down that road Manchester will always win hands down against Leeds. After all, the total population of West Yorkshire (which cannot be called Leeds City region) is only just over 2 million !


Your'e right Fred2 I am relying on that way of calculating the population because anyone who lives in the conurbation sees it as such. People living in Stretford for example(under Trafford council) say they live in Manchester, its 2 miles from the centre, a suburb if you will. Yeah I may have manipulated the figures to suit my point but, the old local government boundaries do not accurately depict the true area of Manchester, you all know this, its nothing new. Hopefully Labour will go ahead with its plans to re-define our boundaries as it is long long over due. For the record I like Leeds and always have, I like its people and its attitude but to say its on a par with Manchester is simply untrue, fair enough your city lines make Leeds a "bigger city" technically, but our city centre is vast compared to Leeds. Im not trying to slag Leeds off so don't jump on me for having my OPINION.

Roly your very confused, it's like this

Manchester City, in the county of Greater Manchester in the region of the North West

Birmingham City, in the county of the West Midlands in the region of the Midlands

of course the West Midlands is a county just like Greater Manchester look it up anywhere. Didn't I tell you not to come on here again till you have researched your facts.
Isnt the West Midlands both a county AND a region. Officially, the midlands is not one region, but split into 2, West Midlands and East Midlands:
http://www.english-nature.org.uk/images/map4.gif
Are there no other counties in the West Midlands region apart from the West Midlands county?
God, I've confused myself now :dizzy:

Hey Accy the links don't work on that picture :nuts:

No I think Brummie Nick is right I looked it up, but your right the west mids is also a region

WOW! From 'what should Leeds do next to become a better city' to 'is the West Mids a county or a region'!?!?! Someone remind me NEVER to compare Leeds to Manchester EVER again! :bash:

Your'e right Fred2 I am relying on that way of calculating the population because anyone who lives in the conurbation sees it as such. People living in Stretford for example(under Trafford council) say they live in Manchester, its 2 miles from the centre, a suburb if you will. Yeah I may have manipulated the figures to suit my point but, the old local government boundaries do not accurately depict the true area of Manchester, you all know this, its nothing new. Hopefully Labour will go ahead with its plans to re-define our boundaries as it is long long over due. For the record I like Leeds and always have, I like its people and its attitude but to say its on a par with Manchester is simply untrue, fair enough your city lines make Leeds a "bigger city" technically, but our city centre is vast compared to Leeds. Im not trying to slag Leeds off so don't jump on me for having my OPINION.

It's alright Robly - but this discussion is rather sterile. I note that Leeds City Region with a population of 2,771,912 is mentioned. It supposedly includes Bradford and York - cities with strong independent economies. It's a ludicrous definition - just as including, say, Warrington in the Manchester City Region !
:)

Fred - you are right, the definition of a city region is vague beyond all belief and as such pretty meaningless when making comparisons.

The documents do give a good example of how the cities are though, and not wanting to stir up any major arguements again, I think I can say without controversy, that the Northernway describes Greater Manchester area as a sinlge conurbation centred on Manchester, in W Yorks, Leeds is the biggest player, however, there are also strong and independent towns / cities.

WOW! From 'what should Leeds do next to become a better city' to 'is the West Mids a county or a region'!?!?! Someone remind me NEVER to compare Leeds to Manchester EVER again! :bash:
Please dont. We dont want it.

I have stayed off this thread for a few days hoping all the Manchester bashing Leeds and the Leeds bashing Manchester would have stopped. Why am I not surprised?

I have never posted anything bad about Manchester on the 'Manchester metro area threads'. Is it too much to ask for others to do the same? If Leeds does not interest you METROLINK and others alike, then simply don't visit the Leeds forum pages. and Leeds people, the same should apply to us visiting the Manchester threads.

ANY MORE POSTINGS ON THIS THREAD WILL JUST SHOW OTHERS WHAT COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOTS YOU REALLY ARE!! :sleepy:

' the busiest mainline rail station outside of London, The largest student population in Europe, The largest University in the country, is the only city in the UK outside of London that shows up on the European list of top 20 business destinations' Leeds has already claimed all of those succesfully though, whether it is true or not- theres nothing concrete to say it is or isnt. Birmingham NS, Leeds and Glasgow Central are all busier stastions, perhaps if Victoria and Picadilly were merged it might be able to compete.

Leeds NO1 still burying your head in the sand and living in denial about our city of Leeds. More ignorant and arrogant statements that bring ridicule to our city and you don't even come from Leeds. Leeds No1 you just give people the ammunition with your silly statements

The facts are Leeds stations has about 5 million less footfall than Manchester Piccadilly and thats just one of Manchesters city centre train stations, Manchester is rated 13th in Europe as a business city, Leeds is 42nd. The only reason Leeds was once the largest uni in the UK was because cities such as Manchester and London had several Uni's not just one like Leeds. Manchester is now the Uk's largest Uni.

Of course there is much concrete evidence to back up these claims, Leeds has never rated anywhere near 20th as a European business city,and has always lagged behind the likes of Manchester. I think you made that one up yourself. Even the dreamers at Yorkshire Forward wouldn't go that far.

I can only come to the conclusion that you make such silly claims about Leeds because you like to bring ridicule upon our city or that you are a 13 year old child. Either way please stop it !

well why dont you stop posting crap about manchester which isnt true on a leeds thread. Leeds doesn't have one uni either.

ANY MORE POSTINGS ON THIS THREAD WILL JUST SHOW OTHERS WHAT COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOTS YOU REALLY ARE!! :sleepy:

What about if I draw a line under it. Do you think that would work?
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

There is the line. :lock:

well why dont you stop posting crap about manchester which isnt true on a leeds thread. Leeds doesn't have one uni either.

Leeds No1 tell which statements I have made which aren't true about Manchester and I will gladly come to HARROGATE beg for your mercy ! :bash:

Leeds No1 tell which statements I have made which aren't true about Manchester and I will gladly come to HARROGATE beg for your mercy ! :bash:

fucking shut your pie hole.

Leeds No1 tell which statements I have made which aren't true about Manchester and I will gladly come to HARROGATE beg for your mercy ! :bash:

who's arse are you licking in Manchester?

This shit has got to epidemic levels. It's got to that point were I say bye. I'm sorry for shit stirring in my other two posts. I don't see why we can't discuss Leeds on our own forum without outsiders spoiling things. It's not as bad on the Manchester forum, I don't care what you say Caw. Caw you have allot to answer for anyway. You are as bad as the other children on here. Do your job fella. We have no Leeds mod, so we are open to Spam, Spam and more Spam. For fucks sake Gothic make Rob or somebody a moderator.

At least I can back up what I say.

This shit has got to epidemic levels. It's got to that point were I say bye. I'm sorry for shit stirring in my other two posts. I don't see why we can't discuss Leeds on our own forum without outsiders spoiling things. It's not as bad on the Manchester forum, I don't care what you say Caw. Caw you have allot to answer for anyway. You are as bad as the other children on here. Do your job fella. We have no Leeds mod, so we are open to Spam, Spam and more Spam. For fucks sake Gothic make Rob or somebody a moderator.


Whatever truth you have on your side, Daveylad, please watch your language - we are not all so foul-mouthed here in Leeds !

says alot for other people, everyones knows who they are.

Erm, No1, your high horse is nothing more than a pygmy pony. You'd do well to get off it before you're challenged once more and this pathetic circle of shite continues.

Whatever truth you have on your side, Daveylad, please watch your language - we are not all so foul-mouthed here in Leeds !

I apologized in the other thread about my language, but I know for a fact swearing can be censored on these type of forums. It's up to the people that run it as to what they let go. S**t, C**t <----- That is what would happen if you posted a bad word and they wanted to stop it.

Jesus you lot, get a life.

Does it matter who's playing catch up??! I'm sure they've both got their good and bad points. But then if you're completely honest, at least both places are on a par in one respect... they're both a bit grim.

ANY MORE POSTINGS ON THIS THREAD WILL JUST SHOW OTHERS WHAT COMPLETE AND UTTER IDIOTS YOU REALLY ARE!! :sleepy:


So the idiots continue........

I apologized in the other thread about my language, but I know for a fact swearing can be censored on these type of forums. It's up to the people that run it as to what they let go. S**t, C**t <----- That is what would happen if you posted a bad word and they wanted to stop it.


No Daveylad, it's up to YOU, and all of us, not to use that sort of language on this forum. Why should we have to descend to the lowest level ?