Musharraf accepts Jewish invitation

By Edith M. Lederer, Associated Press Writer | August 23, 2005

UNITED NATIONS -- Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has accepted an invitation from a leading Jewish organization to speak about his campaign to promote moderate Islam among Muslims around the world, the Council for World Jewry said.

Musharraf since 2003 has been urging Muslims to embrace a strategy of "enlightened moderation" as the best way to counter extremism and terrorism.

Council chairman Jack Rosen said Musharraf's speech next month in New York will be the first time a Muslim leader with international stature publicly calls for moderation in the Muslim world not only at an event for Americans but at an event sponsored by the Jewish community.

"He's going to be speaking to a constituency that's been demonized by many extremists in the Muslim world," Rosen said in an interview Monday.

Rosen said he and two colleagues from the council, which is part of the American Jewish Congress, were invited to meet Muharraf in Islamabad in May. During their talk, they discussed Muslim extremism, terrorism and the need for reconciliation.

Out of that meeting came an invitation for Musharraf to speak to the American and Jewish communities about his call for enlightened moderation and the changes needed in the Muslim world and the West to achieve it, Rosen said.

Musharraf recently accepted, and the Council for World Jewry is organizing an event that will take place soon after a U.N. summit in New York that Secretary-General Kofi Annan has invited world leaders to attend from Sept. 14-16.

In a 2004 speech to the Organization of Islamic Conference, which represents 57 predominantly Muslim countries, Musharraf said his strategy of "enlightened moderation" had two prongs.

One requires the Muslim world to shun militancy and extremism and promote socio-economic progress to achieve its "emancipation." The other requires the West, especially the United States, to resolve "with justice" all political disputes in which Muslims are engaged and to assist in economic and social improvements in deprived Muslim countries, Musharraf said.

"This doctrine is a refreshing doctrine compared to what we've been hearing for the last 10 years from the Islamic world," said David Twersky, who accompanied Rosen to Islamabad.

"He doesn't blame everything on the West. He takes a lot of responsibility," Twersky said. "For example, he says most Muslims being killed in the world today are being killed by other Muslims."

Phil Baum, the third council member on the trip, said it has been very difficult to find moderate Muslim leaders to speak out publicly. He noted that President Bush had recently assigned one of his closest colleagues, Karen Hughes, to work on this issue in her new job at the State Department.

"What we would hope to do is spark other moderate community leaders in joining him in speaking out against extremism and terrorism, something that's been very difficult to find in the last few years," Baum said.

Twersky said what Musharraf is trying to do "is more than pushing the envelope."

"He is really trying to change the rules of the game," Twersky said. "Right now, those rules keep various parts of the world population from communicating with each other. He is trying to change those rules, and he is doing it in a very dramatic fashion by accepting the invitation to the September event."

http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2005/08/23/pakistani_leader_accepts_jewish_invitation/

Very good but I know extremists in pakistan have tried a number of times to kill Musharaf and that a huge portion of pakistanis support Bin Laden and he is probably hiding in some village there.

Anyway, its good that pakistan has a high class of moderate educated and liberal people, and although he is a military general who promises democracy I can understand why democratically pakistan may turn into iran if these are implemented..

Its good that he i willing to speak out in public and call for moderation in the islamic world because too many other arab leaders (uhhm uhhm, who said amer mussa? uhhm uhhm) are afraid to do so or only try to hide behind excuses..

Good news!

really nice

Very good but I know extremists in pakistan have tried a number of times to kill Musharaf and that a huge portion of pakistanis support Bin Laden and he is probably hiding in some village there.

Anyway, its good that pakistan has a high class of moderate educated and liberal people, and although he is a military general who promises democracy I can understand why democratically pakistan may turn into iran if these are implemented..

Its good that he i willing to speak out in public and call for moderation in the islamic world because too many other arab leaders (uhhm uhhm, who said amer mussa? uhhm uhhm) are afraid to do so or only try to hide behind excuses..

Sorry Source26. But I beg to differ with you.

There are extremists in Pakistan, as in any other part of the World. We recently saw an extremist Pat Robertson say 'Lets kill the Venuzvelan President'.. We also heard a US Congressman say 'Lets bomb Mecca' .. such comments themself are preaching terrorist acts.

Anyways, support for elements that spread hate, and extremism has declined in Pakistan majorly. The majority of the population is now focussed on to President Musharraf's forward thinking policies. The people do NOT want terrorism or extremism, they want progress and development, which they are now getting. Pakistanis are very hospitable people, you can only see that, when you visit Pakistan. :)

I also support the establishment of Pak-Israel relations in all fields. From education to defence to economy. :)

ok well thats good news, I bet if there were relations you would see thousands of tourists that want to discover pakistan from Israel, after all it is a huge unknown country to us and probably to many in the world,
I bet most europeans and americans only heard "pakistan" in relations to nuclear weapons, like they hear about contries only when american interests with them are screwed up.. (ie. venezuela)

I hope what you say is right and not many follow extreme islam because it is very easy to be extremist, like the examples you mentioned I can give you many more in every country it is what the population do and who they follow that counts.

Anyway Musharaf has certainly made Pakistan much more heard about and more understood than previouly.

Great news. Hope to live and see it happens.

Musharraf to 'bridge gap' in meeting with US Jews

ISLAMABAD (August 27 2005): President Pervez Musharraf will meet with US Jewish leaders in a bid to "bridge the gap" between the two religions, his spokesman said on Thursday. Spokesman Major General Shaukat Sultan confirmed that President had accepted an invitation by the American Jewish Congress to speak about his campaign for moderation in the Muslim world.

"This is a good opportunity to bridge the gap," Sultan told AFP. "It is a way to start clearing up misperceptions and misunderstandings and we hope that it will prove good for world peace."

Musharraf would address the group in New York on September 17 after attending a UN Summit, Jack Rosen, chairman of the American Jewish Congress Council for World Jewry, said on Thursday. It was an "unprecedented opportunity", Rosen added.

Copyright Agence France-Presse, 2005

Watch it Sultan, before you know it some people will accuse you of treachery and B/S like that.

:runaway:

It is nothing but a PR exercise!

It could actually backfire on Musharraf... though I can't gather what he seems to gain from it (maybe support for Pak interests from AIPAC or trying to dent the upbeat indo-israel relations?? :nuts: :dunno: )...

vengeance what I dont get is what YOU get out of writing that
stupid comment?

Musharaf is trying to dent this or get support there...
get out of this forum you sick hateful person!!
your mouth will backfire on you..

It is nothing but a PR exercise!

It could actually backfire on Musharraf... though I can't gather what he seems to gain from it (maybe support for Pak interests from AIPAC or trying to dent the upbeat indo-israel relations?? :nuts: :dunno: )...
Do you have something against the atempts in trying to give a better perspective for Israel from Musarraf?

this guy vengance is a sri lankan guy who is trying to ruin every thing.

It is nothing but a PR exercise!

It could actually backfire on Musharraf... though I can't gather what he seems to gain from it (maybe support for Pak interests from AIPAC or trying to dent the upbeat indo-israel relations?? :nuts: :dunno: )...

That is a very realistic evaluation of this feeble attempt on part of Musharraf. I am a Pakistani and I am one of the more moderate Pakistani's who support peace with India and Democracy in Pakistan. Let me tell you this, being fully aware of the internal situation of Pakistan I can safely say that this can very well backfire at Musharraf.

Jewish appeasement on part of our leadership is not what Pakistan needs right now. Pakistan is on a slow but steady course towards modernizing itself and eliminating extremism, and such acts can derail such a fragile process.

Fact of the matter is that our Northern Areas which have been overwhelmed with Afghan Refugees fleeing the fighting and unrest in their country. These people make up the brunt of the extremist element in Pakistan. The mainstream Pakistani's namely, Punjabi's, Sindhi's, Muhajirs and Balochis are very hospitable and moderate people. Pakistan is in a process of trying to reverse the extremism that has taken root in our society due to the dispersement of Afghans all over Pakistan. And while 80% of our country consists of Moderate people, we simply cannot just neglect the remainder of our people and adapt policies which are against their beliefs.

So Source26, what vengeance said might not have been what you were wanting to hear but nonetheless it is a very realistic evaluation of this situation.

Pakistani delegation to visit Palestine

MEHMUD AHMED

ISLAMABAD (August 30 2005): The Foreign Office said on Monday that a visit by a Pakistan delegation to Gaza and Al-Quds (Jerusalem) was being worked out with the host officials. This will be the first official visit by a government delegation since the creation of the local authority to administer Gaza and parts of West Bank more than a decade ago.

Gaza is under the direct administration of a Palestinian Authority that was created under late Yasser Arafat and is now headed by President Mahmoud Abbas who visited Islamabad in May. The visit is being arranged in response to his wishes, the Foreign Office spokesman said.

In a statement read out at his weekly news briefing for the media here on Monday, Muhammed Naeem Khan said that a Pakistan delegation's visit was being planned since then.

A significant event that occurred recently, he said, was the evacuation of Gaza areas by the Jew settlers which was welcomed by Islamabad as a positive step. He hoped that this would lead to the establishment of an 'independent Palestinian state' realising the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people.

When pointed out that Israel still 'oversaw' most of the affairs of the Palestinian Authority, on whose visa the Pakistan delegates would be travelling to Gaza and, particularly, Al-Quds, Naeem said the procedures in this respect were being worked out.

Al-Quds, the Arabic name for Jerusalem, meaning 'heavenly abode of the blessed' in Hebrew, is a sacred city for Muslims to which the Israelis moved their capital from Tel Aviv after wresting it completely from the Jordanians in 1957. The Arabs have been demanding its restoration to the Palestinian Authority as capital of an 'Independent' Palestine.

He could not specify the dates for the visit by the delegation and said that the proposal was still in the melting pot and the dates would be announced after finalisation of procedural matters.

There was no agenda yet for talks as it would be a goodwill visit in response to the proposal of Palestinian leaders.

The composition and size of the delegation and its leader could not be ascertained, but one thing was certain that the visit would take place most likely after the visit of President Pervez Musharraf to the New York where he would also address the Jewish Congress of America next month.

Copyright Business Recorder, 2005

its good, pakistan should have relations with isreal, forget the arabs, they are a backwards countries.

1) Jerusalem was always our capital, not from 1967.

2) Israel did not "wrestle" (huh?) its way to reuniting our capital, the arab countries lost another war to destroy us.

3) Jerusalem was never in 3000 years a capital of any other nation or country but the kingdom of Israel, and thats the way its going to stay.

4) Muslims face Mecca, we face Jerusalem. so holy as it is to muslims or christians, its the holiest to Jews.

5) Palestinians have NEVER had control of any prat pf the city and anything they make up or falsify to say otherwise is their problem not ours.

6) If any Israeli Government EVER gives into false palestinian demands and gives back even one INCH of the old city, the backlash among world jews will be something the world really hasnt seen before and I promise you this will end any chance ever for peace.

7) Al Aqsa was built over our temple. It is shocking that palestinians cannot accept that it is only hundreds and not "4000" year old like they falsly claim. They are destroying jeish archaelogy on the temple mount like turning solomon's stables into a mosque. Al kuds reminds us of Kots, which in hebrew is thorn.. that is what their presence is, and if they continur to be this than
just like arab threats about al aqsa you will have enough jewish people who will take things also into their own hands to stop the islamization of our history..

7) Gaza and West bank will forever have to be under Israeli security control, air or land, because they are inside our country and small areas, so Israel will forever have to be involved in things like land crossings and air travel, unless theres some heavenly peace and even then air space and water ways are so narrow and tight that without cooperation with Israel the palestinians wont get anything, they should have understood that little thing by now but they are always hard of learning..

Jerusalem is not something you can swop, share, divide, leave or forget.
If the want they can make abu dis or abu dat their capital, but they must not even think of us ever giving up any part of Jerusalem.

"6) If any Israeli Government EVER gives into false palestinian demands and gives back even one INCH of the old city, the backlash among world jews will be something the world really hasnt seen before and I promise you this will end any chance ever for peace."


Source,i really agree with you for most of your points exept this one:
As a jew from diaspora,i can tell you that if israel decides to give back east jerusalem to the palestinians to solve the conflict,most of the jews will back it for one reason:
World jewry is a inconditional supporter of israel and its decisions.When sharon was telling that netzarim was as important as tel-aviv,most jews was agree with him,and 3 years after,exactly the same persons say that finally if we want to have a hope of peace,we have to support the disengagement.
Israeli jews decide,diaspora jews follow,it works like that.

I dont know about "east" jerusalem - what do you call east?
because if you think their flag will be on the old city walls,
like their leaders think, than I have go news for them,
hell will freeze over before we let this happen.
any israeli P.M like barak who will even discuss this will
face all sorts of things we dont want to think about..
As a secular - I myself am telling I will do whatever it takes
to stop this, and we wont sit so peacefully if there
will be more disengagements also. Its time to get rid of
Israeli governments who only work for American interests and
not those of Israel.

Wow, Source26 you sound like Kyle's mom in South Park :laugh:

:jk:

^^ Not really, What episode?

^^ Not really, What episode?

What episode? Every episode in which theres Mrs. Broflofski. :laugh: I dunno, while I was reading what he wrote, his words starting taking the voice of Kyle's mom in my head. :tongue3:

Pakistan takes to the world stage

By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - Despite the bad international press it receives for some of its policies, Pakistan remains an integral part of the US-led "war on terror", and Islamabad is increasingly taking a more active role on the world stage in promoting "enlightened moderation" as the best way to counter extremism and terrorism.

The most important development in this US-prompted initiative is that President Pervez Musharraf will address the American Jewish Congress (AJC) in New York on September 17 - the first leader of a Muslim country to do so.

The Washington-based online newspaper South Asia Tribune quoted a memo from the chairman of the Council for World Jewry (CWJ), Jack Rosen, to top leaders in the Jewish community: "I am pleased to announce that President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan has accepted an invitation I extended to him last May in his Islamabad office to address the most pressing global problem – the need for Muslims to embrace modernity with openness and tolerance." The CWJ is part of the powerful AJC.

The memo also disclosed that Musharraf had indicated he had tested the domestic Pakistani waters over the Israel issue and felt that diplomatic ties could only follow an Israeli-Palestinian agreement. Pakistan has no diplomatic ties with Israel, and its official position is support of the Palestinians' call for an independent state and demands that Israel end its occupation of Palestinian territory.

Rosen disclosed that before requesting Musharraf to speak to the Jewish community, he consulted President George W Bush at his Texas ranch, who gave his approval. But the process started when Musharraf himself invited Jewish leaders to Islamabad, Rosen's memo revealed.

"At President Musharraf's invitation, I went to Islamabad last May with AJC-CWJ vice chairman Phil Baum and director David Twersky. During our discussions, which addressed the Israeli-Palestinian situation, terrorism and relations between the Islamic world and the West, we proposed that he publicly address a broad sector of the American Jewish community in New York. I am pleased to announce that President Musharraf has accepted our invitation."

Backchannel diplomacy between Israel and Pakistan started soon after Musharraf came to power on October 12, 1999. The main initiator of dialogue was former chief of army staff, retired General Jehangir Karamat, a close friend of Musharraf and once his immediate boss in the army.

After retirement, Karamat, whom Musharraf refers to by his initials, JK, joined a US think-tank. Pakistani diplomat and now UN envoy in Baghdad, Jehangir Ashraf Qazi, was another player in the backchannel diplomacy. He met Israeli diplomats in the US as well as in Israel.

JK's vision emphasized better Israel-Pakistan relations as a way to helping establish Pakistan as a regional powerbroker. He initiated debate when he was chief of army staff, and when he was forcibly retired by former premier Nawaz Sharif, who installed Musharraf in his place, Musharraf embraced the idea.

"Officially, Pakistan does not recognize Israel, and nobody is allowed to travel to Israel on a Pakistani passport. However, unofficially, Pakistan International Airline [PIA] staff are allowed to visit Israel and they are welcome by Israeli authorities. PIA book seats for pilgrims for Saudi Arabia and then takes the passengers from Amman [Jordan]. After opening channels with Israel, Pakistan will have limited diplomatic ties and open trade of both commercial and military goods," said a top Pakistani official in an exclusive briefing with Asia Times Online. :)

Insiders say that in this emerging friendship, Israel has been the more keen. In the many backroom meetings, Israeli diplomats assured Pakistan that they did not consider Pakistan as their enemy, and wanted Pakistan to play its role in taming hardliners in the Jewish state.

Pakistan's vision

Pakistan-Israel relations are only one aspect of Pakistan's strategic vision in today's changing geopolitical world. Islamabad aims to position itself in the middle of the power game between China, Russia and the US.

The US has relocated its focus to Eastern Europe from Western Europe, with the chain stretching up to Russia. The US is not an "empire" in its basic ambitions, it aims to trade interests with various regions. Key to this is its strategic presence in Afghanistan and in the Central Asian republics.

China, too, has its eyes on the region and has already succeeded in Russia at the expense of the US. Since the emergence of the China-Russia strategic partnership, bilateral trade between the two countries has risen dramatically, and by 2010 is estimated to reach up to US$80 billion.

China is planning to increase its oil imports from Russia by 50% in 2005 to 70 million barrels. More than $6 billion in Chinese loans has been provided to Rosneft, the main state-owned oil exporter to China. A central interest is now Siberia, where nearly half of all the proven oil reserves of the former USSR lie, as do 70% of all Russia's coal reserves. Siberia is Russia's largest producer of oil, the second-largest for coal and a major center for metal industries. Some 140 out of 200 of the largest enterprises in Siberia are weapons manufacturers.

This growing alliances between China and Russia has effectively upset US designs, and Russia is now becoming a ring, separated from US post-Cold War investments from Eastern Europe to Central Asia. At the same time, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which includes Russian and China and four Central Asian states, has spoken against the presence of US military bases in the region, and Uzbekistan has demanded the evacuation of the US base in its country.

At the same time, both China (Muslim-majority Xinjiang province) and Russia (predominately Muslim Chechnya ) face home-grown separatist movements, while Islamist movements in the Central Asian republics are a threat to the interests of both Beijing and Moscow.

Therefore, the two countries are looking for an alliance with Pakistan to combat these regional and domestic problems.

Another official involved in Pakistan's strategic decision-making said, "The situation is very well settled in Pakistan's favor. China and Russia seek Pakistani assistance to combat terror, and therefore they are ready to extend ideal investments in the country. Despite this, the US cannot push Pakistan out of its camp as its [the US's] presence in Afghanistan is heavily dependent on Pakistan. And US interests in Central Asia and Russia are of major importance to the US, it cannot afford to retreat from the region. Pakistan has already removed all its hang-ups over Israel and its obsession with its strategic depth concepts. Now it is interested in strengthening its grip in the present power game and prove itself as the lone South Asian powerbroker."

Pakistan has already reaped some rewards. Recently, Islamabad and Beijing signed contracts for the construction of four warships for the Pakistani navy. The F-22P frigates will add to the operational capabilities of the Pakistani navy and also help guard the sea boundaries of the country, according to a statement from Pakistan's Defense Ministry. The frigates will be equipped with helicopters specially designed for anti-submarine warfare, with surface-to-surface-to-air missiles and numerous associated self-defense systems. The agreement also involves the transfer of technology between the two countries.

Pakistan and China are likely to implement 19 trade and investment agreements worth US$350 million in the next five years. Bilateral trade between the two neighbors now stands at $2.5 billion.

Chinese investors have shown a keen interest in Pakistan's oil and gas sector, telecommunications, information technology, ports and shipping, infrastructure projects, housing, pharmaceutical, chemicals and engineering. Currently, 30 Chinese companies operate in Pakistan.

(Copyright 2005 Asia Times Online Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us for information on sales, syndication and republishing.)

Syed Saleem Shahzad, Bureau Chief, Pakistan Asia Times Online.

I guess that I can consider Pervez Musharraf to be pro-Israel in some of his latest works.

I have a great article but i think it well offend certain members.

BTW

I hope Musharraf does not recognize Israel for the sole reason we have to stabalize our country first and then take action. Should we recognize Israel? YES
Should we do it now? NO

It will be better for both nations.

I have a great article but i think it well offend certain members.

BTW

I hope Musharraf does not recognize Israel for the sole reason we have to stabalize our country first and then take action. Should we recognize Israel? YES
Should we do it now? NO

It will be better for both nations.

Which is exactly what I'm trying to say. Please dont post anything that pisses anyone off!

Pakistani FM & Israeli FM Will Meet In Turkey

Just heard the news on ONE World News. Pakistani Foreign Minister, Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri, and Israeli FM would meet up in Turkey for talks.

http://pakistanidefenceforum.com/style_emoticons/PDFEmotionIconsv10/PakistanFlag.gif

Good. More relations the better. I just hope it isn't rushed.

Kasuri to meet Israeli FM in Istanbul

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Pakistani Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri is expected to meet his Israeli counterpart Silvan Shalom in the Turkish capital Istanbul today, Aaj News channel reported on Wednesday.

The channel reported that Kasuri was scheduled to leave for London from Malta, where he was on an official visit, on Wednesday, but his flight schedule was suddenly changed. He arrived in Istanbul through a special plane on Wednesday at 10pm PST.

The foreign minister will address a joint press conference with his Turkish counterpart Abdullah Gul in Istanbul today, the report said.

Pakistan and Israel have no diplomatic relations so far, but a Pakistani delegation will visit Gaza and Al Quds on invitation by the Palestinian President Mahmood Abbas, the report added. Meanwhile President Pervez Musharraf will also address the American Jewish Congress in New York on September 17.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_1-9-2005_pg7_32

"6) If any Israeli Government EVER gives into false palestinian demands and gives back even one INCH of the old city, the backlash among world jews will be something the world really hasnt seen before and I promise you this will end any chance ever for peace."


Source,i really agree with you for most of your points exept this one:
As a jew from diaspora,i can tell you that if israel decides to give back east jerusalem to the palestinians to solve the conflict,most of the jews will back it for one reason:
World jewry is a inconditional supporter of israel and its decisions.When sharon was telling that netzarim was as important as tel-aviv,most jews was agree with him,and 3 years after,exactly the same persons say that finally if we want to have a hope of peace,we have to support the disengagement.
Israeli jews decide,diaspora jews follow,it works like that.

Dov, that is true in a lot of ways, but not all ways, here in Los Angeles, the disengagment was supported by the conservative and reform jews, but the orthodox and some others were very opposed. Perhaps the US jewish community more closely resembles Israel in its political make up,

I supported disengagment, but what kind of people would we be if decided to give up our most prized and cherished city, Judaism is too connected with Jerusalem to simply give it away to another people, how can we as jews exist as a nation, without that which defines our nation - Jerusalem.

When I say Jerusalem I of course mean the old city, the other nieghborhoods have to me much less significance,

however, in the end I am not Israeli, I can not dictate to Israeli's how to live their lives,

Which is exactly what I'm trying to say. Please dont post anything that pisses anyone off!
Haha we have 2-3 member in own subforum who would just slap me if i posted it so i wont.

Jerusalem post:


Sep. 1, 2005 9:11 | Updated Sep. 1, 2005 14:35
Israel-Pakistan diplomatic ties on the horizon
By JPOST STAFF AND AP


After the first high-level meeting between Israel and Pakistan, Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom expressed hope on Thursday that Israel and Pakistan would announce the forming of diplomatic ties during the September 14 59th UN General Assembly in New York.

"We still have to finalize several issues before a formal announcement, issues I would rather not elaborate on at this time," Shalom told Israel Radio after meeting Pakistani Foreign Minister Khursheed Kasuri in Istanbul.

Shalom hailed the move as a "breakthrough, the first-ever meeting," and continued, "We hope to form diplomatic ties. [President] Musharref initiated [the talks] and Sharon welcomed the idea and asked me to go. We met yesterday for dinner and there was a very good atmosphere. Today's meeting was also very good."

Israel, Pakistan Foreign Ministers Meet

By BENJAMIN HARVEY,
Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 23 minutes ago

ISTANBUL, Turkey - The foreign ministers of Israel and Pakistan, met publicly for the first time Thursday, a diplomatic breakthrough that follows Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip.

Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom hailed the meeting as "historic" and said that following the Gaza withdrawal it is "the time for all of the Muslim and Arab countries to reconsider their relations with Israel."

The meeting in Istanbul was at the initiative of Pakistan's President, Pervez Musharraf, and Shalom said he hoped that it would eventually lead to full diplomatic relations with Pakistan.

"I am sure that this meeting will be followed by more meetings in the future," Shalom said. "We hope that finally it will lead to full diplomatic relations with Pakistan as we would like it with all Muslim and Arab countries."

Israel has diplomatic relations with only four Muslim countries — Turkey, Jordan, Egypt and Mauritania.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Khursheed Kasuri called the meeting "a gesture to underscore the importance that we in Pakistan attach to Israel ending its occupation of Gaza."

"It is important that Israel is encouraged to continue to pursue the course of peace and vacation of its occupation," he said.

"The meeting today does not mean recognition," Kasuri added. "That stage will come following progress toward the solution of the Palestinian problem."

The meeting was held at the Fours Seasons Hotel, a former Ottoman prison. Security was extremely tight; Turkish and Israeli security officials searched bags and even disassembled photographers' cameras.

Turkey, an overwhelmingly Muslim country that has good relations with Israel, was chosen as a neutral venue. Shalom and Kasuri informally met Wednesday night at a dinner in Istanbul, Israeli officials said.

Musharraf, a key U.S. ally in the Subcontinent, has been gradually moving toward conciliation with Israel, despite the influence of a powerful Islamic radical party in Pakistan.

The Pakistani president accepted an invitation to address an interfaith conference this month organized by the Council for World Jewry while he is in New York to attend the U.N. General Assembly.

The Arabic-language television station al-Jazeera has quoted Musharraf as calling Sharon a "great soldier and courageous leader" after announcing his plan to end Israel's occupation of Gaza. Pakistan says Israel must abandon all other territory it captured in the 1967 Mideast war and clear the way for an independent Palestinian state.

Sporadic articles in the Pakistani press also have appeared in recent years urging a reassessment of Pakistan's refusal to consider diplomatic relations with Israel.

Zalman Shoval, a former Israeli ambassador to Washington and a foreign policy adviser to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, said Israel would welcome relations with Islamabad, and has been quietly working toward that goal.

"There have been contacts on different levels with Pakistani officials for several years," Shoval told The Associated Press. "Even I myself had contacts with the Pakistani ambassador during my tenure in Washington and I always heard the willingness and desire to establish relations at the right moment," he said.

"Israel is of course interested in widening its official diplomatic relations with as many countries as possible and especially Muslim countries," he said.

Associated Press writer Arthur Max in Jerusalem contributed to this report.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.ist10109011110.turkey_israel_pakistan_ist101.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.ist10209011110.turkey_israel_pakistan_ist102.jpg

Pakistani Foreign Minister Khursheed Kasuri, left, shakes hands with his Israeli counterpart Silvan Shalom in Istanbul, Turkey, Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005. The foreign ministers of Israel and Islamic Republic of Pakistan, met publicly for the first time, a diplomatic breakthrough that follows Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom hailed the meeting as 'historic' and said that following the Gaza withdrawal it is 'the time for all of the Muslim and Arab countries to reconsider their relations with Israel.

Musharraf embrace judasim? :lol:

1) Jerusalem was always our capital, not from 1967.

2) Israel did not "wrestle" (huh?) its way to reuniting our capital, the arab countries lost another war to destroy us.

3) Jerusalem was never in 3000 years a capital of any other nation or country but the kingdom of Israel, and thats the way its going to stay.

4) Muslims face Mecca, we face Jerusalem. so holy as it is to muslims or christians, its the holiest to Jews.

5) Palestinians have NEVER had control of any prat pf the city and anything they make up or falsify to say otherwise is their problem not ours.

6) If any Israeli Government EVER gives into false palestinian demands and gives back even one INCH of the old city, the backlash among world jews will be something the world really hasnt seen before and I promise you this will end any chance ever for peace.

7) Al Aqsa was built over our temple. It is shocking that palestinians cannot accept that it is only hundreds and not "4000" year old like they falsly claim. They are destroying jeish archaelogy on the temple mount like turning solomon's stables into a mosque. Al kuds reminds us of Kots, which in hebrew is thorn.. that is what their presence is, and if they continur to be this than
just like arab threats about al aqsa you will have enough jewish people who will take things also into their own hands to stop the islamization of our history..

7) Gaza and West bank will forever have to be under Israeli security control, air or land, because they are inside our country and small areas, so Israel will forever have to be involved in things like land crossings and air travel, unless theres some heavenly peace and even then air space and water ways are so narrow and tight that without cooperation with Israel the palestinians wont get anything, they should have understood that little thing by now but they are always hard of learning..

Jerusalem is not something you can swop, share, divide, leave or forget.
If the want they can make abu dis or abu dat their capital, but they must not even think of us ever giving up any part of Jerusalem.

You make up such s*** that it is unbelievable! :nuts:

Btw, where was your jewish kingdom after rome destroyed you to help protect jews in holocaust, crusades, inquisition (when you cried and came running to seek shelter of muslims..)?


Such deragatory and inflamous talk will lead no where (and in fact, will not help Israel if it wants a peaceful existance in the region).


US wouldn't always be there to protect and cuddle you, 'lil israeli! :cheers: ;)

Musharraf embrace judasim? :lol:

Oh shut up! ;)

Your own leaders have back door relationships with Israelis (even the ayatollahs of Iran :D ) and many of them even recognized the state (jordan, egypt, palestineans) to whom the Palestine problem concerns the most!!

Didn't qatar have israeli liason office open not so long ago (was closed and moved to some other place..).

So lets wait and see if Pak-Israel diplomatic relations are announced on Sept.14th, when Musharraf is in America.

You make up such s*** that it is unbelievable! :nuts:

Btw, where was your jewish kingdom after rome destroyed you to help protect jews in holocaust, crusades, inquisition (when you cried and came running to seek shelter of muslims..)?;)
Do you have a point?
No.
I didn't think so.


Such deragatory and inflamous talk will lead no where

US wouldn't always be there to protect and cuddle you, 'lil israeli! :cheers: ;)
Nobody is really worried. Who runs the world? Not the US, not you and not your friends and brethren. People don't run things here. You still don't understand, do you? The inquisition didn't achieve your goal. The crusades didn't achieve your goal. The holocaust didn't acheive your goal. You still don't get it.

But you are correct that your derogatory talk will not lead you anywhere.

Palestinians 'worried' about Pak-Israel meeting

(Updated at 2325 PST)

GAZA CITY: The Palestinian Authority on Thursday said it was "worried" about Pakistan's first high-level diplomatic contact with Israel as the Jewish state continues to occupy east Jerusalem and the West Bank.

"It is not good to give Israel gifts before it really implements the peace process, not only in Gaza, but in Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem," deputy prime minister Nabil Shaath told reporters.

"We are worried about this because it's not a good time to start relations with Israel," he said, 10 days after Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's government completed its historic evacuation of all Jewish settlers from the Gaza Strip.

"The right time for this relationship with Israel is after Israel withdraws from... all land occupied in 1967 and solves the refugee issue," Shaath said, adding that he thought Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas was of the same opinion.

The West Bank leader of Islamist fundamentalist movement Hamas denounced the meeting and urged Islamic and Arab states not to fall into the trap of seeing the Gaza pullout as synonymous with the end of occupation.

"We condemn any relationship between an Islamic state and the Israelis and we ask Pakistan to go back on this agreement, especially as the Palestinian people have not yet been given their rights," said Hassan Yussef.

Israeli diplomatic sources said Thursday's meeting between Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom and his Pakistani counterpart Khurshid Kasuri could pave the way for the establishment of diplomatic ties.

Do you have a point?
No.
I didn't think so.



Nobody is really worried. Who runs the world? Not the US, not you and not your friends and brethren. People don't run things here. You still don't understand, do you? The inquisition didn't achieve your goal. The crusades didn't achieve your goal. The holocaust didn't acheive your goal. You still don't get it.

But you are correct that your derogatory talk will not lead you anywhere.

What do all these events have to do with me?

Thank your european buddies if you must! ;) ;)

marshall your stinky fart can cause another holocaust.

Vengeance aka Marshall? oh crap!

Could be him. I guess Zohar should do his thing now. Get more background info on Vengeance, and see if its really Marshall.

Sharon, Musharraf may meet this month - Jerusalem Post

A summit between Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf in New York later this month will be dependent on domestic Pakistani and Arab world reactions to the public meeting Thursday between the two countries' foreign ministers, a senior diplomatic official said Thursday.

The official said it was too early to discuss such a Sharon-Musharraf summit, even though Musharraf personally initiated Thursday's meeting, and Sharon okayed it.

Sharon dispatched Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom to Istanbul on Wednesday night, where he had dinner with his Pakistani counterpart Khurshid Kasuri. They met again Thursday morning but this time, for the first time, ended that meeting by making it public and holding a press conference.

Shalom hailed the meeting as a "historic first" and said that after the Gaza pullout, it was "time for all of the Muslim and Arab countries to reconsider their relations with Israel."

"I am sure that this meeting will be followed by more meetings in the future," Shalom said. "We hope that finally it will lead to full diplomatic relations with Pakistan, as we would like with all Muslim and Arab countries."

Kasuri called the meeting "a gesture to underscore the importance that we in Pakistan attach to Israel ending its occupation of Gaza." "It is important that Israel is encouraged to continue to pursue the course of peace" and end its occupation, he said.

"The meeting today does not mean recognition," Kasuri noted. "That stage will come following progress toward the solution of the Palestinian problem."
Musharraf, who faces stiff opposition in Pakistan by the radical Islamic party -MMA, to the move, quickly downplayed its significance and said that it did not mean that Pakistan was recognizing Israel.

Musharraf, speaking to reporters in the South Western Pakistani City of Quetta, said that while the talks in Istanbul were "the first formal contact between our two countries," they did not represent recognition of Israel.

"We will not recognize Israel until it resolves the Palestinian issue," he said.

Nevertheless, in Jerusalem diplomatic officials said that the importance of an open and public meeting between the two foreign ministers should not be underestimated.

The official said that an important signal was sent when Pakistan – which is the only Islamic Nuclear Power, is home to the world's third largest Muslim population and is an important symbol for both the Islamic and developing worlds – was willing to turn up for a public meeting with Israel.

Officials in the Prime Minister's Office hailed the development as a "reaping of the fruits of disengagement" even before the withdrawal from Gaza has been completed.

The ministers met in Istanbul at the Four Seasons Hotel, a former Ottoman prison not far from Topkapi Palace, seat of the Ottoman sultans for almost 400 years.

Israeli officials said that Musharraf called Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who then called Sharon to arrange the meeting. Turkey, which has often said in the past that it would like to play a more active role in the peace process, was chosen as a neutral venue at Musharraf's suggestion and was happy to oblige.

Israel gets its first diplomatic reward for Gaza pull-out
By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor
(Filed: 02/09/2005)

Israel reaped the first major diplomatic reward for its evacuation of the Gaza Strip yesterday when Pakistan, the world's second most populous Muslim nation, agreed to a meeting and public handshake between the foreign ministers of the two countries.

The unprecedented encounter between Khursheed Kasuri, Pakistan's foreign minister, and his Israeli counterpart, Silvam Shalom, took place on neutral territory at a hotel in Istanbul.

In a further sign of a thaw in political tensions, Jordan's King Abdullah was expected to visit Israel as early as next week, according to Israeli sources.

Pakistan's move was immediately denounced by Islamist parties that called for nationwide protests. The Palestinian Authority expressed alarm that Israel was being given "gifts" while it still held on to the West Bank.

In Istanbul, Mr Shalom hailed the meeting as a "historic first", and a further step towards its acceptance in the Muslim world.

He said: "I am sure that this meeting will be followed by more meetings in the future. We hope that finally it will lead to full diplomatic relations with Pakistan as we would like it with all Muslim and Arab countries."

Mr Kasuri described the meeting as "a gesture to underscore the importance that we in Pakistan attach to Israel ending its occupation of Gaza".

Mr Kasuri was adamant that the meeting did not amount to formal recognition of the Jewish state, a point emphasised later by President Pervez Musharraf who declared: "We will not recognise Israel unless the Palestinians get their homeland or there are signs of an accord in this direction."

Musharraf said the meeting had the backing of Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas.

Egypt and Israel yesterday signed an agreement to deploy 750 Egyptian soldiers along Gaza's border with Sinai, allowing Israeli forces to withdraw from the corridor while preventing the smuggling of weapons into the Gaza Strip.

US denies role in Istanbul meeting

By Our Correspondent

WASHINGTON, Sept 1: The US State Department on Thursday welcomed a meeting between the foreign ministers of Pakistan and Israel but said the United States played no role in arranging the event.

“It is a good thing but totally an initiative of the government of Pakistan and represents a strategic calculation by Islamabad based on their own interests,” a State Department official told Dawn. “The US played no role in it.”

The official said the meeting was not about the Middle East peace process, “it’s about Pakistan and Israel.” Pakistan, he said, always had “a clear, principled stance on the Middle East peace process”.

He said that although the US played no role in arranging the Istanbul meeting, “we always encouraged Pakistan to engage with the Israelis in a positive way. We are hoping that Pakistan will exercise leadership in Geneva with the International Committee of the Red Cross to permit the Israeli Red Cross to become a full member of the international community.”

Describing the talks as a “getting-to-know meeting,” the official said it’s “a good political development for Pakistan in a lot of ways and the US welcomes it.”

He said President Pervez Musharraf was engaged in “a major campaign” to demonstrate Pakistan’s image “in a different light than it seems.”

The official described President Musharraf’s scheduled meeting with the American Jewish Congress in New York later this month, and another one with women groups as linked to his efforts to improve Pakistan’s image.

“The meeting with women groups will be good because of the story of the Mukhtaran Mai case,” said the official.

“The Pakistanis are exercising their diplomatic creativity on behalf of Pakistan’s interests,” he said.

UK: When approached for comments on the meeting, the British foreign and Commonwealth office spokesman described it as a “positive step,” APP adds.

ANNAN: Secretary-General Kofi Annan had noted with “great interest” the meeting, a United Nations spokesman said.

“The secretary-general is aware of the reports concerning the meeting” between the two foreign ministers, the spokesman told APP in New York.

http://www.dawn.com/2005/09/02/top5.htm

Arabic newspaper, Islamic groups condemn meeting between Israeli, Pakistani foreign ministers, as well as plan by President Gen. Pervez Musharraf to address Jewish group in New York. London-based al-Quds al-Arabi: talks 'reward' Sharon for 1.5 tons of settlement rubble

(Roee Nahmias and Associated Press)
Radical Islamic groups around the world wasted little time in responding to Thursday's meeting between Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom and Pakistani counterpart Khursheed Kasuri Thursday.

"The president has rewarded Sharon for destroying settlements and leaving a million-and-a-half tons of rubble," fumed Abdul Bari Atwan editor-in-chief of the London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper."In doing so, he has also rewarded him (Sharon) for continued building of the racist wall and expanding settlements in the West Bank.

"The most dangerous thing is that he has given Sharon these rewards just days before he goes to the United Nations, where he will be received as a peacemaker by the entire Muslim world," said Atwan.

Islamist protests
In addition, radical Islamic groups called on supporters to rally outside mosques across the country on Friday to condemn the first formal talks between Pakistan and Israel, saying the talks were a step toward diplomatic recognition.

"We urge the people to fully participate in today's rallies to tell the rulers that we will not allow them to
recognize Israel," said Ameer ul-Azeem, spokesman for Mutahida Majlis-e-Amal, an opposition coalition of six Islamic parties.

The comments came a day after Pakistani Foreign Minister Khursheed Kasuri met with his Israeli counterpart, Silvan Shalom, in Istanbul, Turkey.

Ul-Azeem also criticized Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf for arranging Thursday's meeting without consulting parliament, and for planning to send a delegation to Jerusalem. Islamabad has not announced a date for the visit.

No recognition
Pakistan, a Muslim country that in the past has taken a harder line against Israel than some Arab countries, met with the Israelis following the demolition of Israeli communities in the Gaza Strip, which was completed last week.

After Thursday's landmark meeting, Musharraf told reporters that the government had made no decision to establish formal ties with Israel.

"Pakistan will not recognize Israel until the establishment of a free and independent state for the Palestinian people," He said, adding that Thursday's meeting "does not mean that we have recognized Israel."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3136780,00.html

------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope that the relations develop, but if hate for Israel and extremism will only increase then this should be reconsidered. Maybe the Pakistanis aren’t ready yet. Also, the Pakistani-Indian conflict is a problem because Israel is very close to India in many levels including sharing military technology.

Last update - 14:59 02/09/2005


Jordan's King Abdullah to visit Israel publicly for first time

By Aluf Benn and Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondents

Jordan's King Abdullah will visit Israel next week and meet with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to discuss the aftermath of the disengagement, Israeli officials said.

Although Abdullah has previously visited Sharon in secret at his Sycamore Ranch, this will be the king's first public visit to Israel.

The Israeli officials said the meeting was coordinated by the head of the Mossad, Meir Dagan, but officials in Jordan are denying reports of the planned visit to Israel. Jordan regularly denies such reports until a fixed date is set for a visit.

Sharon and Abdullah met in February, at the Sharm el-Sheikh summit in Egypt, and Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz met with the Jordanian king last month in the Jordanian port city of Aqaba.

Political sources in Jerusalem said the visit was part of the ongoing support taht regional and world leaders are showing toward Sharon in the wake of the evacuation of the Gaza Strip and part of the northern West Bank. Amman also wishes to strengthen its role in the peace process with the Palestinians, fearing an escalation in the West Bank that could spill into Jordan.

What do all these events have to do with me?

Thank your european buddies if you must! ;) ;)
Once again, you have nothing to say. Are you on drugs? Do you generate random words with which to respond?

Your dreams will never be realized. Face it. Go look at your own post. The Nazis couldn;t achieve your dream. The crusaders could not. The inquisition coud not. Neither can you.

Last update - 14:59 02/09/2005


Jordan's King Abdullah to visit Israel publicly for first time

By Aluf Benn and Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondents

Jordan's King Abdullah will visit Israel next week and meet with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to discuss the aftermath of the disengagement, Israeli officials said.

Although Abdullah has previously visited Sharon in secret at his Sycamore Ranch, this will be the king's first public visit to Israel.

The Israeli officials said the meeting was coordinated by the head of the Mossad, Meir Dagan, but officials in Jordan are denying reports of the planned visit to Israel. Jordan regularly denies such reports until a fixed date is set for a visit.

Sharon and Abdullah met in February, at the Sharm el-Sheikh summit in Egypt, and Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz met with the Jordanian king last month in the Jordanian port city of Aqaba.

Political sources in Jerusalem said the visit was part of the ongoing support taht regional and world leaders are showing toward Sharon in the wake of the evacuation of the Gaza Strip and part of the northern West Bank. Amman also wishes to strengthen its role in the peace process with the Palestinians, fearing an escalation in the West Bank that could spill into Jordan.
This is a good thing. Abdullah has been pragamatic from the beginning. His father was pragmatic also. His country has benefited from their relationship with Israel.

Silvan Shalom and the Pakistani foreign minister looked like twins..
Silvan is such a joke, I wonder what language they spoke in,
because he knows very little english (yes, our FOREIGN MINISTER!)

The actual reason for the warming of relations was none other than
his wife, Judy, who heard there's some great shopping deals to be
found in Islamabad :lol:

Judy also urged him to help the United States after huricane Katrina, commenting that she was shocked to hear the water level is rising,
so many people must have lost their entire designer clothing collection
of summer 2005, not just the shoes.
:lol:

(from the hebrew satirical website 'our foreign minister judy' :)

This is great news, alot of pakistani jews are now israelies. I hope the palestine issue will be settled soon. Pakistan and and Israel have alot to offer eachother. I think some of your lost tribes are settled in northern pakistan, their is alot of jewish influence on our Pathan and Kashmiri cultures.

Silvan Shalom and the Pakistani foreign minister looked like twins..
Silvan is such a joke, I wonder what language they spoke in,
because he knows very little english (yes, our FOREIGN MINISTER!)

The actual reason for the warming of relations was none other than
his wife, Judy, who heard there's some great shopping deals to be
found in Islamabad :lol:

Judy also urged him to help the United States after huricane Katrina, commenting that she was shocked to hear the water level is rising,
so many people must have lost their entire designer clothing collection
of summer 2005, not just the shoes.
:lol:

(from the hebrew satirical website 'our foreign minister judy' :)

I actually saw the interview. A clip was shown on all Pakistani news channels, they both talked in English. But, the way the Shalom was speaking, anyone could make out he was not fluent in English. He was kinda readin' off the paper. :tongue3:

They also used smiles to communicate. :lol:

This is great news, alot of pakistani jews are now israelies. I hope the palestine issue will be settled soon. Pakistan and and Israel have alot to offer eachother. I think some of your lost tribes are settled in northern pakistan, their is alot of jewish influence on our Pathan and Kashmiri cultures.

I never knew that Pathans and Kashmiris had Jewish influence. How come ? Can you please elaborate ? This is a very interesting bit of info.

Pakistan may lift ban on Israeli travel

Pakistan Times Wire Service

ISLAMABAD: An Israeli newspaper Haaretz has quoted Israeli official as saying that the meeting between the two states foreign ministers in Istanbul “was expected to be followed by confidence-building measures, such as a relaxation of Pakistan's ban against travel to Israel”, reports PPA.

Israeli Foreign Minister Shalom said he and Kasuri had decided to take several diplomatic steps that are still in the initial stages. He refused to elaborate, but suggested that the countries may begin by sending ministerial delegations.

Meanwhile according to Israeli Radio, FM Shalom said: "I think there was a major breakthrough today in the relations between us and Pakistan."

"Of course, we ultimately want diplomatic relations, but we decided that from now on, the relations will be open, the relations will be good," he added.

The Israeli minister also said that "Pakistan, as the second largest Muslim country after Indonesia, undoubtedly has value of great importance, has central value."

Shalom also praised Musharraf, for initiating the meeting, and said the Pakistanis had informed the Palestinians about it.

Shalom said he and Kasuri had decided to take several diplomatic steps that are still in the initial stages. He refused to elaborate, but suggested that the countries may begin by sending ministerial delegations.

An Israeli foreign ministry official was also quoted by Haaretz newspaper as saying "There is no conflict whatsoever between Israel and Pakistan and no logical reason why the two countries could not have a constructive and positive bilateral relationship."

Source: Pakistan Times

is israel a safe place for muslims/pakistanis to go?

MQM hails Pak-Israeli contact

Staff Report

KARACHI: An important meeting of the coordination committee of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) was held here on Thursday where, apart from other issues, the reported meeting between the Pakistani and Israeli foreign ministers was discussed.

The meeting was chaired by the committee’s convener, Dr Imran Farooq. Dr Farooq Sattar, deputy convener of the committee, Anwer Alam, in charge coordination committee Pakistan, joint in charge Abdul Haseeeb and other members attended the meeting. Members of the coordination committee from London, including senior deputy convener Tariq Javed, also participated over phone.

The coordination committee issued a statement after the meeting, which stated that wars are not solution of problems, but ultimately negotiations and discussions are the only means to solve problems.

After fighting for so many years, Israelis and Palestinians are also seeking resolutions of their disputes through dialogue. As a result, Palestinians and some Arab states have recognised Israel.

The government of the United Kingdom also decided to sit at the negotiation table to resolve the conflict in Northern Ireland, after engaging in fighting for many years, the MQM statement said. It further said negotiations are going on in different areas of the world for peaceful resolution of disputes and that proves that negotiations should not be abandoned but should continue.

The coordination committee said: “Those who are opposing negotiations and dialogue are not in fact interested in resolution of disputes, but they use disputes to exploit the emotions of common people for their political interests.

Source: Daily Times

If the ban is removed. I can assure you I'd be visiting Israel. :)

is israel a safe place for muslims/pakistanis to go?
As safe as it can get. again, we have 1.3 million Muslims of our own citizens (20%).

Once again, you have nothing to say. Are you on drugs? Do you generate random words with which to respond?

Your dreams will never be realized. Face it. Go look at your own post. The Nazis couldn;t achieve your dream. The crusaders could not. The inquisition coud not. Neither can you.

You like to put words in others' mouth don't you? ;)

Considering what Nazis were and believed in, I don't think I can qualify as their poster blue eyed blond as they wanted the whole world to be!! :lol:


Calling people Nazis when you have nothing to say is really low and shows your own intellectual capacity everythingisgone!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/01/pakistan.israel.ap/index.html
Pakistan, Israel to hold meeting

Thursday, September 1, 2005; Posted: 2:14 a.m. EDT (06:14 GMT)

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) -- Pakistan's foreign minister was set to hold talks Thursday with his Israeli counterpart on the situation in the Middle East, a landmark diplomatic meeting between the countries, two Pakistani newspapers have reported.

The Dawn newspaper said the meeting, to be held in Istanbul, Turkey, between Khursheed Kasuri and his Israeli counterpart, Silvan Shalom, was taking place "in response to Israel's keenness to establish contact with Pakistan."

The two countries -- which don't have diplomatic ties -- decided to hold the meeting in Turkey because it is a "neutral" country, Dawn said. Turkey is a predominantly Muslim nation that has diplomatic relations with Israel and is a close friend of Pakistan.

According to another Pakistani newspaper, The Nation, Turkey also facilitated the Israel-Pakistan meeting. Neither newspaper cited sources.

The two foreign ministers will focus on the developments in the Middle East peace process, Dawn reported.

There was no official confirmation of the reported talks. Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed, who is also the chief government spokesman, said Thursday: "I have no information about the meeting."

Pakistan backs the Palestinians' call for an independent state, and demands that Israel pull out from the Palestinian territories under its occupation.

Representatives from Israel and Pakistan had been secretly holding talks for the past several months through diplomatic and "informal channels," with Pakistan insisting it would wait for an appropriate time to make the overtures public, Dawn said.

"After the Israeli pullout from Gaza, Pakistan signaled to the Israelis that it was 'now ready' for an overt contact," the English-language newspaper said.

President Gen. Pervez Musharraf, a key U.S. ally in the war against terrorism, has angered Pakistani opposition groups by calling for a debate on whether Pakistan should recognize the Jewish state.

Musharraf is also expected to speak at a Jewish interfaith conference in New York later this month.

The Foreign Ministry has said that Musharraf's participation in the meeting in New York, organized by the Council for World Jewry, a leading U.S.-based Jewish organization, should not be seen as a move by Pakistan to recognize Israel.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Calling people Nazis when you have nothing to say is really low and shows your own intellectual capacity everythingisgone!

Calling people Wahhabis when you have nothing to say is really low and shows your own intellectual capacity Vengeance.

I see u have something in common :rofl:

Pakistan can help resolve ME issue

Kasuri briefs president, PM on Istanbul talks

By Raja Asghar

ISLAMABAD, Sept 3: President Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz on Saturday said that Pakistan’s ‘growing stature’ could help achieve a just settlement of the Palestinian problem.

The two leaders, according to a foreign ministry statement, said this when Foreign Minister Khurshid Mehmood Kasuri briefed them about his meeting with his Israeli counterpart Silvan Shalom in Istanbul on Thursday.

The statement quoted both the leaders as reiterating that there was “no change in Pakistan’s position on Israel” but saying that Islamabad “wants to play a positive role for the resolution of the Palestinian dispute based on justice and equality”.

“Pakistan today is in a position to play this role in view of its growing stature in the international community and in the (Muslim) Ummah,” the statement reported what appeared to be the gist of their remarks in their first meeting with Mr Kasuri since his talks with Mr Shalom.

It said ruling Pakistan Muslim League president Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain was also present at the meeting. The briefing followed a debate in the National Assembly on Friday when opposition members criticized the first high-level talks between Pakistan and Israel with some seeing it as a policy change to recognize the Jewish state occupying Palestine and others complaining of parliament being bypassed in an important foreign policy matter.

Musharraf said: “Pakistan will not recognize Israel until the establishment of an independent Palestinian state” and that Islamabad “took leaders of the Islamic countries in the Middle East into confidence” before the Kasuri-Shalom meeting.

The President, who is due to address the American Jewish Congress in New York later this month, justified the process of engaging with other faiths as being “in line with the teachings of Islam and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him)” and recalled that the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) kept channels of negotiations open with other religions.

The president said that Islam, being a religion of peace, “has lived in peace and harmony with other faiths for centuries and can do so in the future as well”.

The Prime Minister said that Mr Kasuri’s meeting with the Israeli foreign minister was “in no way recognition of Israel and any decision in this regard would be taken in the supreme national interest after due consultations”.

The statement quoted Mr Kasuri as saying his talks with Mr Shalom were held in a ‘cordial atmosphere’ and that he told him that Pakistan’s gesture demonstrated that “the Islamic world will respond positively if Israel is ready to accept the imperatives of peace by respecting the fundamental rights of the Palestinians to live in freedom and peace in their own homeland”.

The foreign minister said he emphasized at the Istanbul meeting that Pakistan would “like to see that the process started with the (Israeli withdrawal last month) from Gaza is continued in the West Bank”.

Source: Dawn News

Lifting the ban on flights between Israel and Pakistan is a step in the right direction.

I get to visit Tel Aviv, and Haifa :D

We are waiting :) Dont forget Jerusalem

Jerusalem is holy land for the Muslims, Christians, and Jews. So, I'll definately go there, Insh'Allah. :)

living on the holy land must be fun, i mean there is so much history there, there could a ancient treasure just under my home.

‘Pakistani minister due in Israel soon’

JERUSALEM: As a follow-up of the recent meeting between the Israeli and Pakistani foreign ministers in Istanbul, Islamabad will soon send senior officials led by a federal minister to Tel Aviv to promote ‘diplomatic relations with Israel, the Middle East Study Centre quoted a statement by the Tel Aviv-based International Organisation of Jews as saying on Monday. However, the centre did not name the minister. The centre also said Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf had a covert interaction with a noted Jewish figure in Islamabad two months ago. In the meeting, the president feared he would have to face a public backlash at home if he allowed diplomatic relations between Pakistan and Israel. “However, Musharraf promised Islamabad will gradually advance towards formal Pak-Israeli relations,” the centre added. The centre also claimed Musharraf had allowed Pakistani Christians to visit Jerusalem. Separately, Jordan said on Monday that Pakistan was a sovereign state and was free to establish diplomatic relations with Israel or any other country. online

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_6-9-2005_pg1_10

Kong, do u live in Israel?

Calling people Nazis when you have nothing to say is really low and shows your own intellectual capacity everythingisgone!
When you learn how to read, let me know. And you accuse me of putting words in other people's mouths. You make a good hypocrite. Look it up.

FM Shalom interviewed by Pakistan Post

7 Sep 2005
Exclusive interview published in "The Pakistan Post"
September 7, 2005

(reprinted with permission)

Pak-Israel contacts go back to 15 years: Meeting with Kasuri surprised US: Pakistan not a terrorist state: Muslims in Israel’s parliament and Arabic official language of Israel: Extremists distort Islam and use its name to justify violence: Pakistan can play a positive role in ME peace: Palestinians have to end Intifada

Muzamal Suherwardy

Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs of Israel Silvan Shalom Tuesday revealed that low-level formal contacts between Pakistan and Israel date back 15 years. In a first-ever interview by any Israeli minister to a Pakistani newspaper, he told The Post that Israel does not consider Pakistan a terrorist state. He said his recent meeting with the Pakistani foreign minister was not held under any US pressure. According to Mr Shalom, Pakistan and Israel can work together to show the rest of the world that Muslims and Jews can live together in a friendly environment. “If Pakistan had good formal relations with Israel, it can play an important role in resolution of the Palestine issue.” He said Israel is not against Muslims, which is evident from the fact that Arabic is an official language of Israel and there are some one million Israeli citizens of Arab origin comprising Muslims, Druze, and Christians. About Israel’s nuclear capabilities and plans, Mr. Shalom said Israel neither possesses nor will be the first country to bring nuclear weapons to the region.

Following is the complete text of the telephone interview:

The Post: What is Israel’s stance on the Kashmir issue in terms of UN resolutions and other international commitments?

Shalom: Israel has supported the Simla Agreement between Pakistan and India since 1972 and the resolution of all issues between them by peaceful means. We welcome the rapprochement between Pakistan and India over the past several years and hope that they will reach an agreement in the near future.

The Post: President Musharraf clearly stated that formal diplomatic relations with Israel are not possible before the formation of a Palestine state. How much time do you think it will take?

Shalom: Israel has taken a very courageous and bold step demonstrating its deep commitment to reaching a lasting agreement with the Palestinians and its willingness to make tough and painful concessions. The complete pullout of all civilians and military personnel from the Gaza Strip and the evacuation of four settlements from the West Bank present the Palestinian leadership with an unprecedented opportunity. The ball is today in the Palestinian court. The question is how they avail the opportunity. Israel would like to return to the roadmap and negotiate a permanent settlement with our Palestinian neighbours. We have been trying to negotiate peace for over 10 years. The roadmap clearly states that in its initial phase, the infrastructure of terrorism must be dismantled. The Palestinian leadership must take the peace process out of the hands of terrorists and lead the Palestinian people to a new phase of nation-building and growth.

The Post: The perception one gets from the Israeli media is that all Muslims are terrorists. An Israeli newspaper even said that all Muslims are snakes. Will you care to comment?

Shalom: Israel is the cradle of the world’s three monotheistic religions - Islam, Christianity, and Judaism and the Israeli people comprise individuals from all three faiths. In fact, more than one million Arabs comprising Muslims, Druze, and Christians, are citizens of Israel. Muslims serve in Israel’s Parliament and Arabic is an official language of the State of Israel.

Historically, Muslims and Jews lived side by side in peace and in many places in Israel they still do. The extremists who distort Islam and use religion to justify violence do not represent all Muslims. Israel has no quarrel with the Muslim world and seeks to establish dialogue with Muslim countries like Pakistan. I hope the next time you interview me, it will not be over the phone, but rather here in Jerusalem.

The Post: In Islam marriages with Jews are permitted but there is lack of mutual trust between Israel and the Muslim World. Do you think Palestine is the only reason or are there other reasons?

Shalom: Again, I do not think that Israel is in conflict with the Muslim world. And I must remind your readers that five successive Israeli Prime Ministers have been trying to negotiate a peace agreement with the Palestinians. Israel is committed to reaching a lasting agreement and has most recently demonstrated this by the historic withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in its entirety and from four settlements in the West Bank. What we need now is a Palestinian partner who is willing to dismantle the infrastructure of terrorism and is ready to take on the task of nation-building. I hope that Abu Mazen proves to be this partner. Unfortunately, much of the Muslim world does not read about the positive steps that Israel takes in their local newspapers. The virulent anti-Semitic and anti-Israel reportage present in many media outlets is so unfortunate because it obstructs the path to dialogue and cooperation. It is regrettable that in some Muslim countries the leaders are more willing to take steps toward the recognition of Israel than their peoples.

The Post: Who do you think was responsible for the 9-11 and 7-7 attacks? Do you approve Pakistan’s policy towards terrorism?

Shalom: The destruction of the global terrorist network knows no boundaries and the goal of the terrorist is not just to destroy life, but to destroy a way of life. Terrorism strikes against democracy, against freedom and advancement, against development and human rights. It is incumbent upon the entire international community to ensure that the forces of stability triumph over those of devastation and chaos and to stand unified against all those who use violence as a tool of policy. Since September 11, the international agenda has shifted to the threat that terrorism poses. Under the leadership of President Musharraf, Pakistan has opposed both terrorism abroad and militancy at home. Israel welcomes this stance and believes that the international community must remain steadfast in its fight against extremism and must continue to support forces of stability and moderation.

The Post: Can there be any confidence building measures (CBMs) between Pakistan and Israel in view of your latest talks with our foreign minister? Can such CBMs help in any way?

Shalom: I discussed many issues in my meeting with Mr Kasuri, among them steps that our respective countries can take to lead to a wider dialogue. Our meeting was very constructive and he left me with a positive impression. I hope that our meeting last week in Istanbul was the first of many and will one day lead to the establishment of diplomatic relations.

The Post: How do the people of Israel perceive Pakistan? Do they recognize it as a threat or a state supporting terrorism?

Shalom: The people of Israel do not view Pakistan as a terrorist state, but unfortunately, public perception about Pakistan is vague, as our peoples do not share consistent contact. I am confident that the similarities between our nations could serve to pave the way for mutual respect and understanding and eventually cooperation and collaboration in myriad fields. Pakistan and Israel have much in common. For example, both nations lived under British occupation and were established by the vision of national religious identity.

The Post: Some say that Israel today stands as an isolated and controversial state among the world community and that this is the failure of Israeli foreign policy?

Shalom: Israel enjoys wide support in the international community and has close allies and friends spanning the globe. When I took up my position as foreign minister, I announced as two pillars of my foreign policy agenda the strengthening of relations with Europe and the Arab world and I believe that we have been successful on both fronts. In diplomacy, results are not often instantaneous, but rather the result of a steady and strong process. I am confident that the majority of the world knows today that Israel truly seeks peace with its Palestinian neighbours and is ready to make painful compromises to ensure a better future for the entire region.

The Post: Can you tell us exactly when the direct or indirect contacts between Pakistan and Israel started and at what level?

Shalom: I can confirm and acknowledge that the direct contacts between Pakistan and Israel started a long time ago. For long we have been trying to make some progress for a public meeting of our officials but it took us a very long time. However, I am happy that it has come at this good time. For Israel, Pakistan is a very important country. It is the second largest country in the Muslim world. I hope that in the near future relations between Pakistan and Israel will grow. In terms of past contacts, I can confirm that the contacts were direct and also indirect, but most of the time it was direct but in a low profile. In my position, I can confirm that the contact existed some 10-15 years ago. During my tenure as the foreign minister, which has been a little more than a year, there were many direct contacts between Israel and Pakistan but these were in low profile too.

The Post: Some perceive that US is the real moving force between the direct Pakistan-Israel talks. Is the U.S playing any role in these talks?

Shalom: No. I can assure you that this meeting was a surprise for the US. Let me tell you that the US Secretary of State Dr. Rice called me after this meeting. She commended and congratulated me for this and said it was a pleasant surprise. However, the US supports good and cordial relation between Israel and Pakistan and favours these direct contacts.

The Post: As per the Middle East roadmap, Israel will have to vacate the settlements from the West Bank too. Are you planning to go ahead with that even after the trouble faced by the Israeli government in the Gaza? Some quarters think that since West Bank settlements will be more difficult, Israel may pull back from doing that?

Shalom: Israel is in full mood to follow the roadmap, but the roadmap has phases. We need to go step-by-step. We’ve taken the first step in Gaza, now it is Palestinians’ turn to dismantle the terrorist network and other Intifada infrastructure. If they do so it will be much easier for us to follow the next phase. Let me make it very clear that it is very important that Israel gets a good response from the Palestinians after Gaza pullout. If the suicide bombings continue, it will halt any progress on the road map. Peace will encourage the Israeli people to move ahead with the roadmap. If rockets are fired on our cities from Palestinian areas, how can we talk about peace and following a roadmap?

The Post: It is believed that Israel has more than 200 nuclear weapons. How do you comment on that?

Shalom: Let me make it very clear that Israel will not be the first to bring any kind of nuclear weapons to the region. Israel is not dealing in that. Israel will never be the first to bring non-conventional weapons to the region.

The Post: How do you foresee the future of Pakistan-Israel relations?

Shalom: Pakistan for long has not been a friendly country to Israel, but now that is changing. We have many things in common. Both of us are religious states. We are a Jewish state and Pakistan is a Muslim state. With good relations towards each other we can be a model for other states of the world as to how religious states can be friends and this will be good for the peace of the world. This will help the people of the world to understand that there is no conflict between Muslims and Jews. In this way we can contribute positively to world peace.

The Post: What message would you like to give to the people of Pakistan?

Shalom: I want to tell the people of Pakistan that Pakistan and Israel have no conflict. We have neither territorial disputes nor any economic dispute. Israel wants good relations with the Muslim world. Israel has always been comfortable with the Muslims. Even I was born in an Islamic country, Tunisia. My family and I were very comfortable with the Muslim families we lived with. Pakistan and Israel can work together for the benefit of their people and better lives for the people of both countries. In regard to Palestine, Pakistani people must keep in mind that countries like Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey are more helpful for Palestinians as they have good relations with Israel. Pakistan can play a positive role in the settlement of Palestine issue if it has good relations with both Israel and Palestine.

Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Speeches+by+Israeli+leaders/2005/FM+Shalom+interviewed+by+Pakistan+Post+7-Sep-2005.htm

lets hope that all of the talks will accomplish something, and if they will than the future look's bright :)

FM Shalom interviewed by Pakistan Post



Shalom: I want to tell the people of Pakistan that my wife Judi told me she wants to shop till she drops (and hopefully she will one day) in Islamabad. You do not know what a chequebook she has - she can single handedly revive a third world nation if she feels like spending a bit.

Even I was born in an Islamic country, Tunisia. And when Judi heard it she said "lets go shopping in Tunis!" and so I told tunisia economic minister he doesnt know what he's missing and he opened direct flights the very next day. Judi was so excited she dyed her hair from dark-orange to orangy-red in honour of tunisia, and had another nose job just so she could look pretty
when she visited the jews left there, she said they were so out of fashion she would donate them a pair of italian shoes each, at least!
Also please tell me does Pakistan have famous movie stars? If so, please inform them my wife would like, no - tell them she demands - to be photographed with each of them, as soon as possible and if madonna should happen to visit pakistan tell her she cant leave until she meets judi.. it would really further world peace - with her, in our home. I am so grateful if you could do this, I really dont want to be shouted at by her..

Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Speeches+by+Israeli+leaders/2005/FM+Shalom+interviewed+by+Pakistan+Post+7-Sep-2005.htm

:lol:

lol

Calling people Wahhabis when you have nothing to say is really low and shows your own intellectual capacity Vengeance.

I see u have something in common :rofl:

See I haven't said anything anti-semitic (in the sense like some arabs want to destroy israel, want to kill all jews etc.) while you criticize other sects as mushrik / kaafir and have said that suicided bombings are religiously permitted as long as you have some reason.. :crazy:

I dont know about "east" jerusalem - what do you call east?
because if you think their flag will be on the old city walls,
like their leaders think, than I have go news for them,
hell will freeze over before we let this happen.
any israeli P.M like barak who will even discuss this will
face all sorts of things we dont want to think about..
As a secular - I myself am telling I will do whatever it takes
to stop this, and we wont sit so peacefully if there
will be more disengagements also. Its time to get rid of
Israeli governments who only work for American interests and
not those of Israel.

You call yourself secular !!!!!!!!! I wonder what an extremist Jew would say more

[B]Pakistan can help resolve ME issue


Just solve your problem with India first

secular or not like any muslim wont give up mecca for peace dont expect any jew to give up jerusalem..
dont ask other people to do what you wouldnt do - thats called hypcracy..

Abbas says welcomes first Israel-Pakistan talks

Fri Sep 9,11:05 AM ET

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/nm/20050909/2005_09_09t110646_450x316_us_mideast_palestinians_pakistan.jpg

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said on Friday he welcomed the first public talks between Israel and Pakistan last week, a step powerful Palestinian militant groups greeted with hostility.

The meeting between Israeli and Pakistani foreign ministers in Turkey signaled a diplomatic breakthrough between Israel and a major Muslim nation. It was spurred by Israel's pullout from occupied Gaza, land Palestinians want as part of a future state.

Abbas told Israeli Arab newspaper Kul al-Arab that Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf informed him of the talks beforehand and assured him that full diplomatic relations between Pakistan and Israel would await the formation of a Palestinian state.

"I could not say 'no', and I said to him: 'As long as the issue will serve the Palestinian cause, then let it be,"' Abbas, breaking a public silence on the talks, told the newspaper.

A spokesman for Hamas, a powerful Palestinian militant group sworn to Israel's destruction, said Abbas's support for the talks hindered the Palestinian national cause.

"This is a very dangerous act to encourage other countries to normalize ties with the occupation," said Sami Abu Zuhri. "It represents serious harm to the Palestinian cause and misleads public opinion, since occupation remains on our land."

Israel evacuated all 8,500 settlers from Gaza and is to have all military forces out by next week.

But it continues to expand Jewish enclaves in the West Bank where 245,000 settlers live, stripping Palestinians of land at the heart of their aspirations to a viable state.

Militant groups also condemned Pakistani leaders over the dialogue with the Jewish state and staged protest rallies, which fell flat.

Palestinian Deputy Prime Minister Nabil Shaath said initially that it was premature for Pakistan, a staunch backer of Palestinians, to offer diplomatic "gifts" to Israel.

Israel has full diplomatic ties with four major Islamic countries -- Egypt, Jordan, Turkey and Mauritania -- and has sought to establish links with others.

But Muslim states have generally demanded Israel first pull out of all territory it occupied in the 1967 Middle East war.

yes but abu alah was quick to come out to the media and say "now is not the right time yet bla bla bla" the palestinians also said the same when jordan signed peace with israel.. they are always so afraid of peace and peace talks its amazing

More good news folks,

Israel allows imports from Pakistan

TEL AVIV, Israel | September 11, 2005 6:11:59 PM IST

Israel Sunday decided to allow its citizens to import goods from Pakistan for the first time after the two countries established ties earlier this month.

State-owned Israel Radio said that Industry and Trade Minister Ehud Olmert signed a decree allowing all Israelis to import anything from Pakistan, even without an import license.

The decision came after the foreign ministers of the two countries met publicly for the first time in Istanbul, Turkey, and announced their decision to launch diplomatic ties for the first time since Israel's establishment in 1948.

woow good news...

Sultan I heard a Pakistani businessman ordered via email beauty products
from the dead sea and from israeli herbs.. so maybe soon at your shops :)
I wouldnt mind a pakistani restaurant like some in London

Sharon meets Pakistan's Musharraf at UN - official
14 Sep 2005 18:37:59 GMT

Source: Reuters

(Recasts with spokesman, background, previous JERUSALEM)

UNITED NATIONS, Sept 14 (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon shook hands with Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf at a reception during the U.N.'s World Summit on Wednesday, a spokesman for Sharon said.

"They shook hands. Musharraf introduced his wife to Sharon and he said, 'Nice to meet you'," Sharon spokesman Asaf Shariv said.

He said there was no discussion of diplomatic issues at the reception held at the United Nations for international leaders attending the summit.

The Israeli and Pakistani foreign ministers met in Istanbul on Sept 1, the first public bilateral talks.

Israel said the event signalled a normalisation of ties, but Pakistan said it would not recognise the Jewish state until a Palestinian state was created in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Riding high on international accolades for his Gaza withdrawal, Sharon plans to meet a slew of foreign dignitaries at the United Nations. Israeli television said Musharraf had declined an invitation for talks with Sharon during the summit

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L14284451.htm

yes but abu alah was quick to come out to the media and say "now is not the right time yet bla bla bla" the palestinians also said the same when jordan signed peace with israel.. they are always so afraid of peace and peace talks its amazing
Why would you want to destabalize your country just to please another?

It doesnt make sense hence the lack of peace talks but between Israel and Pakistan thier are no peace talks needed since we never went to war.

President Musharraf and PM Sharon shake hands at UN

UNITED NATIONS (updated on: September 15, 2005, 02:09 PST): Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon shook hands at a reception at the United Nations on Wednesday, two weeks after their governments held their first public talks.

"I was standing and he came in a group and he joined the group and he shook hands with me," Musharraf told reporters.

"He asked me how I was. I asked him 'How are you?' And that's very good."

Sharon's spokesman Asaf Shariv said there was no discussion of diplomatic issues during the brief encounter and Israeli television said Musharraf had declined an invitation for talks with Sharon during their stay in New York.

But the gesture at the reception, held for leaders attending the UN World Summit, would probably have been until unthinkable until Sharon removed Israeli troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip, ending 38 years of occupation.

Israel said the event signalled a normalisation of ties, but Pakistan said it would not recognise the Jewish state until a Palestinian state was created in the still-occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

Riding high on international accolades for his Gaza withdrawal, Sharon plans to meet a slew of foreign dignitaries at the United Nations.

Copyright Reuters, 2005

Why would you want to destabalize your country just to please another?

It doesnt make sense hence the lack of peace talks but between Israel and Pakistan thier are no peace talks needed since we never went to war.

I was reffering to the palestinians trying to sabotage peace talks between
Jordan and Israel, and threatening muslim countries not to normalize relations
always saying "its not time yet" and then making statements like ahmed qorea
(abu alla) that any such move is hurting their cause.. of course this is a sad joke.

JPost.com » Middle East » Article


Sep. 15, 2005 0:59 | Updated Sep. 15, 2005 7:55
'Fatwa' forbids relations with Israel
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

The Palestinian Religious Scholars Society on Wednesday issued a fatwa (Islamic religious decree) forbidding normalization with Israel.

The fatwa came in response to a surprise ruling earlier this week by Muhammad Sayyed Tantawi, head of Egypt's al-Azhar Mosque University, in favor of normalization with Israel.

"Islam does not prohibit normalization with other countries, especially Israel, as long as this normalization does not affect religion," Tantawi, one of the Arab world's leading Muslim scholars, wrote.

Condemning Tantawi's stance, the Palestinian Religious Scholars Society said his ruling was tantamount to supporting infidels, a move that is banned by Islam. "This is like sharing with the infidel in his evil deeds," it added.

Criticizing Egypt's agreement to deploy border guards along the border with the Gaza Strip, the Palestinian "scholars" said they were expecting the head of al-Azhar to issue a fatwa "calling for the mobilization of Muslim armies to expel the Jews from the rest of the lands of Palestine instead of deploying troops to defend the enemy's borders."

The Palestinian group is headed by Sheikh Hamed Bitawi, who also serves as head of the Palestinian Authority's Sharia Appeals Court in Nablus. Bitawi is also known as a senior Hamas official in the West Bank.

The attack on Tantawi, one of the world's most influential Islamic leaders, comes amid mounting tensions between the PA and Egypt after thousands of Palestinians illegally crossed the border into Egypt over the past three days.

Looks like Pakistan's move has triggered a chain reaction

Israel-Pakistan ties: Improvement due to Gaza pullout: Musharraf

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: President Pervez Musharraf said on Friday that the steps taken by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to vacate Israeli settlements in Gaza and some settlements in West Bank had helped improve Israel-Pakistan relations, APNA news channel reported.

The channel said Musharraf told a press conference in New York that Israel was a reality and that many countries had already recognised it. The channel quoted him as saying that it was earlier prohibited in Pakistan to contact Israel, but his government was trying to end the impression.

“‘Vacating Palestinian territories is an important step and to recognise Israel depends on the establishment of an independent Palestinian state,’ he added,” the channel reported.

“He praised Sharon for vacating Palestinian territories, saying it was a positive step, which had led to a meeting between the Israeli and Pakistani foreign ministers in Istanbul,” the channel added.

The channel quoted him as saying that he thought recognising Israel was a step-by-step process and that nobody could sprint without learning to walk first.

Musharraf denied a stalemate in the Indo-Pak peace process, saying India and Pakistan had pledged to resolve all issues including Kashmir, the channel reported.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_17-9-2005_pg7_44

good move
==================================================

Musharraf breaks new ground in meeting with Jewish leaders
(AFP)

18 September 2005

NEW YORK - Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf held an unprecedented meeting on Saturday with leaders of the American Jewish Congress as part of his campaign to press for moderation in the Muslim world.

Musharraf is the first leader of a Muslim nation, which has no diplomatic relations with Israel to hold a public dialogue with Jewish leaders, officials of the Council for World Jewry said.

The Pakistan military general was given a standing ovation and big round of applause as he stepped into the conference room for the meeting cum dinner at a leading hotel in New York.

“I cannot imagine that a Muslim and that too a Pakistani and more than that a man in uniform would ever get such a warm reception and such an applause from the Jewish community,” Musharraf said, as gave a military salute to the audience, which included Pakistani Americans.

Jack Rosen, the chairman of the American Jewish Congress, described the function as “an unprecedented evening.” It resulted from two years of secret talks, culminating with a May meeting with Musharraf in Islamabad.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan spoke before the congress in January last year but his nation already has diplomatic relations with Israel, congress officials said.

“President Musharraf’s decision to be with us tonight is an act of individual courage, leadership and vision,” said Rohen, who is also chairman of the Council for World Jewry, which includes the American, French and Russian chapters of the Jewish community.

Sharing the dais with Musharraf, senior US legislator Tom Lantos, a Hungarian Jew who resisted the Nazis and then narrowly escaped the Holocaust for America, greeted the Pakistani leader as ”a man of vision.”

“At a time when the civilized world is engaged in a global war against extremist Islamic terrorism, you have emerged as the quintessential Muslim leader of moderation, decency, reason, and acceptance of pluralism,” said the Democratic Representative of California.

Musharraf, who seized power in a bloodless coup in 1999, is a key US ally on its “war on terror” and has repeatedly spoken out against extremism in the Moslem world.

He unveiled his so called “enlightened moderation” doctrine encouraging Muslims to embrace pluralism, openness and tolerance at the Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) last year.

The meeting with the Jewish leaders came three days after the Pakistani leader shook hands with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon when they ran into each other at the UN summit here.

Two weeks earlier, their foreign ministers met in Istanbul in the first official contact between the Jewish state and Islamic Republic (IR).

Pakistan has stressed that it will not officially recognise Israel until the Palestinians get their own independent state.

Israel has long hoped that its historic withdrawal from the Gaza Strip after a 38-year occupation could usher in a new period in Israel’s hitherto largely non-existent ties with many of the world’s Muslim countries.

It currently has full diplomatic relations with only three Arab states -- Mauritania, Egypt and Jordan -- and a handful of Muslim majority states including Turkey.

President Pervez Musharraf speaks at an American Jewish Congress dinner in New York. The unprecedented meeting with leaders of the American Jewish Congress is part of his campaign to press for moderation in the Muslim world.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050918/capt.sge.iva23.180905043458.photo00.photo.default-267x384.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050918/capt.nydk10509180415.musharraf_world_jewry_nydk105.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050918/capt.nydk10109180352.pakistan_world_jewry_nydk101.jpg

wow - there's a council for world jewry?!..
everyday you learn something new :)

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pag...d=1127010246579 (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1127010246579)
Sep. 18, 2005 8:57 | Updated Sep. 18, 2005 9:43

Musharraf: Israel must leave the West Bank soon

By DAVID HOROVITZ
NEW YORK

In a landmark, unprecedented address to American Jewish leaders late on Saturday night, just days after he had shaken hands with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon at the UN General Assembly, Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf urged Israel to show its "courage," and the Jewish community to use its influence, to solve the "Palestinian dispute once and for all."

He said this required Israel to pull out of the West Bank and agree a solution in Jerusalem that respected the city's "international character."

Resolution of the conflict, which Gen. Musharraf asserted lay "at the heart of terrorism in the Middle East and beyond," would "usher in a period of peace and tranquility in the Middle East and perhaps the whole world."

Among other things, it would certainly enable Pakistan to formalize full diplomatic relations with the Jewish state, he indicated.

Speaking briefly to The Jerusalem Post shortly before making his address, Musharraf said he had no timetable for such ties. "We need to sit down and talk more [with the Israelis]," he told The Post, "and see how to move forward We ought to be taking more steps."

While unanimously praising Musharraf for addressing the gathering, arranged after two years of preparations that coincided with the formal opening of contacts between Pakistan and Israel, some Israeli and American Jewish participants expressed discomfort with some of the president's comments, and especially his intimation that Israel's presence on land it captured in the 1967 war constituted the root cause of Islamic terrorism.

Dan Gillerman, Israel's Ambassador to the UN, told The Post that he considered this assertion to be "very problematic." Still, Gillerman said, at least there was now finally an opportunity to pursue a dialogue on this and other issues directly with the Pakistanis.

Gillerman added that he wished Musharraf had "gone further" of late and agreed to full ties with Israel. Again, though, now that direct contacts had been initiated, Israel could and would try to "push him along a little faster."

The Pakistani leader described the groundbreaking dinner meeting, attended by a large cast of Jewish leaders and dignitaries assembled by the American Jewish Congress, as "a historic occasion."
Also present were Pakistani ministers, officials, dignitaries and journalists, Americans of Pakistani origin and a smattering of international diplomats.

He used the event to pledge that Pakistan ultimately intended to cement full diplomatic relations with Israel, and spoke warmly and at length about the need for a return to the centuries of positive interaction between the Islamic and Jewish communities and to end the past six decades' "aberration" in that record of cooperation and co-existence.

He vowed personally to help educate his people about the strong history of warm Jewish-Islamic ties.

At the same time, however, his recipe for healing placed the overwhelming onus on Israel.

He stressed that terrorism "cannot be condoned for any reason or cause" and that both Israelis and Palestinians "must shun confrontation and pursue peace and reconciliation."

But he then went on to say that Israel's rightful desire for security would remain "incomplete, until the creation of an independent and viable Palestinian state is assured." Israel, he said, "must come to terms with geopolitical realities and allow justice to prevail for the Palestinians They want their own independent state and they must get it."

Specifically, he continued, the welcome Israeli decision to pull out of Gaza should be followed "soon" by an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank. And later, for the sake of "durable peace and harmony between Israelis and Palestinians – indeed between Israel and the Muslim world," there would have to be a final settlement on the status of Jerusalem that would "respect the international character" of the city.

Over 1,400 years ago, he said, Caliph Omar annulled the 500-year exile of the Jewish people and invited them to return and build their homes in the Holy City. This kind of "gesture of reconciliation and realism" was now "required of Israel."

In a short question and answer session after his speech, when asked why he was not prepared to follow the lead of a country like Turkey, which enjoyed full ties with Israel while simultaneously highlighting its support for Palestinian statehood, the general said that "57 years of bitterness hatred and animosity cannot be undone so fast."

To try to sprint when barely walking risked "derailing the whole process," he said. "We have to be a little patient I need more support in my endeavors to be able to take the Pakistani people along with me. The people of Pakistan are too involved with the Palestinians and the establishment of a Palestinian homeland."

They had, he said, already "come a long way" in accepting Israel's right to exist. But as Israel moved toward enabling the establishment of a Palestinian state "side by side with a secure Israel," this would "allow us the flexibility" to fully normalize ties.

Asked whether he felt able to publicly champion Israel's legitimacy in his contacts with the rest of the Muslim world, and to convey the message that Israeli territorial concessions would have to be met with a curtailing by the Palestinians of the demand for a "right of return" for refugees to Israel, Musharraf gave a vague response. He said all "the modalities" would now have to be considered, but that he hadn't really given much thought to these kinds of specifics.

One of the most telling sentences in his speech came near the beginning, when he expressed pleasure at speaking "to so many members of what is probably the most distinguished and influential community in the United States."

Officials traveling with Musharraf privately confirmed that the president regards the support of US Jewry as an immensely valuable factor as he seeks to solidify his ties with the US administration.

One senior Pakistani official also cited, as central factors in the warming of ties, Musharraf's recognition of common interests with Israel in the war on terror, a desire for a Pakistani role in peacemaking and a belief in inter-faith dialogue.

In a conversation with The Post, one of the president's most trusted ministers, Dr. Nasim Ashraf, the minister of state for human development, said Pakistan also hoped it might now begin to build the kind of military partnership with Israel enjoyed by India.

It would be excellent, Ashraf said, "If Israel could open up its military relationship" to Pakistan.

Musharraf devoted much of his address to the potential for Judaism, Christianity and Islam to serve as "a source of hope, tolerance and peace," rather than being "pitted against each other."

He bitterly rejected talk of a clash of civilizations between Islam and the West, and also rejected "attempts to associate Islam with terrorism."

Islam, he said, was a "religion of tolerance, compassion and peace" and those who denied this were engaged in "a hate campaign."

Nonetheless, he acknowledged that "most of those involved in terrorist acts, as well as most of those who suffer the consequences of these acts, are Muslims. Obviously there is a deep disturbance and malaise within Islamic societies."

This, he said, stemmed from "festering" problems such as those in Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan and Iraq, which had "given rise to a deep sense of anger, desperation and humiliation in the Arab and Muslim populations."

The consequent terrorism and extremism, he said, had to be addressed separately. "Terrorism has to met head on with all the force required to suppress and eradicate it." In the case of extremism, on the other hand, "the battle has to be won in the hearts and minds of the people."

He said that the "misuse of religion to spread militancy, hatred and violence has to be suppressed." But at the same time, political disputes exploited by terrorists "to justify their criminal actions" had to be resolved. And among those ripe for resolution, he said, were the Palestinian and Kashmir disputes.

He did not have "an iota of doubt" that the Israeli-Palestinian problem "lies at the heart of terrorism in the Middle East and beyond." Peace in Palestine would revive the historical ties between Judaism and Islam, he insisted, and "extinguish the anger and frustration that motivates resort to violence and extremism."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/626131.html

Musharraf to U.S. Jews: Key to full ties is Palestinian statehood

By Shlomo Shamir, Haaretz Correspondent, and News Agencies

NEW YORK - Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf told U.S. Jewish leaders on Saturday that granting the Palestinians statehood would help stop Islamic terrorism and lead to full diplomatic ties between Pakistan and Israel.

Speaking to the American Jewish Congress at a groundbreaking dinner that opened with the sharing of bread and Koranic prayers, Musharraf, the guest of honor, said his Muslim country had "no direct conflict or dispute with Israel" but that Pakistanis had deep sympathy for Palestinian aspirations for a separate state.

"Israel must come to terms with geopolitical realities and allow justice to prevail for the Palestinians," he said, describing a Palestinian settlement as the key to security for Israel and an end to Middle East terrorism.

"As the peace process progresses towards the establishment of an independent Palestinian state, we will take further steps towards normalization and cooperation, looking to full diplomatic relations," Musharraf said to lengthy applause.

Musharraf also said he welcomed the Gaza disengagement and that he hoped Israel would soon withdraw from the West Bank as well.

Jewish leaders in New York stressed the importance of the AJC event to Jewish-Muslim relations.

The event, which some 300 people attended, came after Musharraf's September 1 meeting with Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom in Turkey, the first formal high-level contact between Israel and Pakistan.

"Pervez Musharraf represents an important and large Muslim country whose influence reaches beyond the circle of Muslim states," a prominent American Jewish official told Haaretz. "The significance of his appearance before a Jewish audience cannot be overstated." :)

Musharraf, who was in New York for the opening of the United Nations General Assembly, shook hands with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon during a chance meeting at UN headquarters. There was also a second meeting between the foreign ministers of both countries last week.

But Musharraf downplayed his handshake with Sharon, telling the Arabic-language Saudi newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat it "had no political implications."

Contacts between the AJC and Musharraf began a few months ago, mediated by prominent personalities in Pakistan and the United States. Musharraf accepted the invitation to speak to the organization last May, when he met with AJC officials in Islamabad.

Meanwhile, in an interview published Saturday in Asharq Al-Awsat, Musharraf defended his country's recent gestures toward Israel. He said they were designed to support the Palestinians and pressure Israel into realizing their rights.

"We want to strengthen the Palestinian cause and support it. We want to try to influence Israel to establish a Palestinian state," he said. "We won't have a role to play if we don't deal with them. But if we talk then we can at least ... exert pressure and use our clout."

I say to my brother Muslims: The time for renaissance has come.

Musharraf’s speech to Jewish

Congress history-making event

NEW YORK: A US newspaper has said President Pervez Musharraf’s address to the American Jewish Congress (AJC) in which he was expected to expound his vision of enlightened moderation, would be an history-making event.

The Manhattan Sentinel, in an article ahead of the President’s address, said the event "might eventually claim its own significant place in history."

President Musharraf was to speak at a gathering of the American Jewish Congress here on Saturday evening.

The article by Azra Goldstein was headlined "Historic Breakthrough." It said President Musharraf has taken up the cause of moderation and has been striving for it.

Quoting from President Musharraf’s article that appeared in the Washington Post last year, the writer said the Pakistani leader calls enlightened moderation a way "to stop the carnage in the world and to stem the downward slide of Muslims."

She quoted President Musharraf as saying in that article: "I say to my brother Muslims: The time for renaissance has come.

The way forward is through enlightenment...We must adopt a path of moderation and conciliatory approach to fight the common belief that Islam is a religion of militancy in conflict with modernization, democracy and secularism."

I think now is the right time to use the hug smiley to represent the positive realtionships between Pakistan and Israel. :hug: