If you look at the Echo 'Capital of culture' section on the website there is an article referring to Brian Sewell's recent comments that Liverpool being awarded the European Capital of Culture award is 'Ludicrous'. If you are not familiar with Mr. Sewell he is a London art critic who has a stuffy attitude to anything ourside the M25 ring road. I sent in a letter to the Echo to be published in response to this article and the comments made. Whether or not it will be published or not is a different matter:

It didn't surprise me to read at some point that Brian Sewell would find the notion of Liverpool being European Capital of culture as 'Ludicrous'. The London art critic has in the past fired off his misconceptions about towns outside London. Not so long ago he suggested that Geordies were not sophisticated enough to appreciate the 'Cobra exhibition' at the Baltic Centre for Contemporary Art. He was invited to Newcastle and shown around the gallery by locals. He eventually swallowed humble pie (and some of the local brown ale) and realised London did not have a monopoly on cultural and artistic events. I would invite Mr. Sewell to come to Liverpool and have a look at the range of Galleries and Museums we have on offer. I think he will be pleasantly surprised!

It looks as though we still have a few image battles left to fight but if it is only the likes of Brian Sewell saying we are philistines then I can live with that.

I started this thread to generate debate about the cities image. I realise there are a lot of proud scousers but I am also interested in the the opinions of those outside the city looking in. I think Brian Sewell doesn't represent all opinions.

Brian Sewell may be stuffy and strange-of voice, but he does his damnedest to push this plain speaking, no nonsense, populist persona at every opportunity. I'm sure he says these things just because it fits his image; as someone who does actually have a lot of knowledge about art, he must surely really know that there are fine art collections outside London.

You do have a point there. He trades on his poshness doesn't he ? If he spoke with a more normal tongue he wouldn't have the level of celebrity he currently enjoys.

I saw a documentary on channel 5 where he went on a pilgrimage from Canterbury, through France to the festival at Santiago de Compostella in Spain. It was an old pilgrim route of the middle ages and on the way he made his criticisims of various things. They ranged from religious architecture, art and festivals.

The last episode was funny mind. All his ponposity was quashed when he had to burn the clothes he had traveled the pilgrimage in and swim in the sea. Trust me, Brian Sewell doesn't look good bollocko.

Brian Sewell aside, Liverpool every now and then has it's knockers. Building this city up again and being positive is the only long term way of dealing with these ridiculous attitudes.

What doesn't help is the fact that Liverpool FC soccer fans can't seem to stay out of the news, for all the wrong reasons. During the telecast of the Liverpool v Sophia Champions League qualifier, reference was made to the violence that has mared this clubs past, Heysel, Rome, Hillsborough and the latest epeisode in Varna, Bulgaria. The announcers did not elaborate on the rights and wrongs of each incident but just lumped them all together. They showed a clip from last Saturday's home game against Sunderland which featured a message to free Michael Shields. The slant they put on the story was that Mr. Shields was a convicted violent soccer thug who was sentenced to 15 years for the attempted murder of a local Bulgarian man. They (the announcers) dont have the time nor the inclination to elaborate so the whole city of Liverpool is tared because of some of the fans who support the team that carries the city's name.

Question: Why is it mostly Liverpool FC fans who seem to attract the violence? Why are Everton fans less violent?

I think you have opened a can of worms there Sloyne. Be prepared for yet another Liverpool/Everton argument quite soon.

What doesn't help is the fact that Liverpool FC soccer fans can't seem to stay out of the news, for all the wrong reasons. During the telecast of the Liverpool v Sophia Champions League qualifier, reference was made to the violence that has mared this clubs past, Heysel, Rome, Hillsborough and the latest epeisode in Varna, Bulgaria. The announcers did not elaborate on the rights and wrongs of each incident but just lumped them all together. They showed a clip from last Saturday's home game against Sunderland which featured a message to free Michael Shields. The slant they put on the story was that Mr. Shields was a convicted violent soccer thug who was sentenced to 15 years for the attempted murder of a local Bulgarian man. They (the announcers) dont have the time nor the inclination to elaborate so the whole city of Liverpool is tared because of some of the fans who support the team that carries the city's name.

Question: Why is it mostly Liverpool FC fans who seem to attract the violence? Why are Everton fans less violent?

There are not ıs the short answer. If you look at the arrest statıstıcs of Lıverpool fans and compare them wıth those of other large clubs, Lıverpool fans are comparıtvely one of the better behaved set of fans - although far from perfect lıke those of every club.

They just seem to get out more. :)

Question: Why is it mostly Liverpool FC fans who seem to attract the violence? Why are Everton fans less violent?

Don't talk utter tripe. Liverpool where the top English club side in Europe for most of the 70's and 80's without a hint of violence till 1984. You should be asking why the people of Rome decided after the game that year, to go round beating, Knifing and mugging scousers after they lost the Final? the following year in Brussels with more Italians up for it and Liverpool fans deciding enough is enough against these so called Ultras where sadly it spilled into the death of 39 people in a crumbling stadium. Why mention Hillsbrough when that had nothing to do with violence also Varna, according to the Echo, Sankey was an Everton fan along for the ride with his mates. The most things Liverpool use to get up to in Europe was thieving like most fans did travelling abroad then.

On Everton you'll have to ask the author of "Scally" why Everton's hooligan firms were called the "Everton Charming men", "Snorty 40" and "County road cutters" ?

Question: Why is it mostly Liverpool FC fans who seem to attract the violence? Why are Everton fans less violent?

That must be the most stupid statement this decade. :gaah:

What planet are you from really? :ohno: :weird:

Am I supposed to say something erudite and informed about Brian Sewell? Let me think......

What an utter twat......I cringe every time I hear that man's effete voice. He said similar nasties about the Lowry Arts Centre in Manchester, how it had nothing to do with art. (Maybe I'm telling the wrong people.....LOL)

Perceptions of Liverpool..........ok

Liverpool's architecture is MUCH more impressive than almost any English regional city. The areas around the cathedrals and Aigburth are beautiful. And the terraced houses in Kensington and Edge Hill are more substantially built than typical Lancashire mill town terraces. This is probably because Liverpool was never an industrial city per se; it's a port and commercial centre, just like London, as you lot know.

It actually looks like a real city, with a real cosmopolitan past. It feels like a real city too, the inhabitants are not 'provincial' in any way. Fast talking, intelligent, cultured, informed, sophisticated and witty. Will that do?

What happened to Liverpool in the 1970s and 80s was almost criminal. In 20 years time, when the population increases to near where it was 30 or 40 years ago, and the economy booms too (it's starting already), what a fuckin fantastic city it's going to be. One of Europe's gems.

My honest opinion.

That must be the most stupid statement this decade. :gaah:

What planet are you from really? :ohno: :weird:
Well the tv announcers pointed out that the week before the Heysel deaths the other Liverpool team and it's fans were playing a game against Rapid Vienna in Rotterdam, Holland, WITHOUT incident. They made the observation that it must be something about the Liverpool FC fans. Unfortunately, the perception around the world is that followers of Liverpool FC, are violent. Red, if you don't like the message, please don't shoot the messenger.

Thanks for your kind words Jongeman. :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Don't talk utter tripe.
"Tripe" it may be but it is what the sports world are showing on TV and it is Liverpool FC fans that have the bad reputation and preaching to me, or this forum, about how bad other fans are and how placid Liverpool fans are just won't do it. It is Heysel, Rome, Hillsborough and Verna that is in the news. It doesn't matter to the tv producers just who is at fault but even if Liverpool fans are the victims it doesn't really matter to them.

Two weeks ago my son and I went to a local pub to watch the Everton V Villareal game. Just after Villareal had scored their first goal a couple of guys entered the bar. The older of the two (in his late 50's, early 60's) started to berate the Everton supporters, goading and using obscenities, so much so that the bar staff asked him to tone it down or be eveicted from the bar. He continued his provocative remarks but without the obscenities. Later I overheard a Manchester United fan (Man U game was televised before the Everton game) explain to the barman that Liverpool FC fans are the worst in Britain. At the time I was in no mood to correct him.

The day before at the same pub their was almost as many Everton supporters as Liverpool fans. Everything was good natured and it seemed to me that the Everton supporters were also supportive of Liverpools efforts and cheered each of Liverpools three goals.

Have you ever thought that the type of response you have made could be construed as belligerent? Is it really neccessary to come across so harsh? I got the impression, from your post, that I am fortunate to be 3,000 miles away from you, or am I also guilty of having the wrong perspective?

Question: Why is it mostly Liverpool FC fans who seem to attract the violence? Why are Everton fans less violent?
I've noticed recently that Everton fans are actually behaving worse than Liverpool fans on a more regular basis, espescially DURING games. It always seems that Liverpool fans get to see the worst side of the press which is rather sad. Its probably based on history.
Thats why the press start screaming for blood whenever Milwall fans put a foot out of line.

Let's not start a slanging match. I've got a new chant for both sets of fans to use :D:

"Brian Sewell went to Rome to see the Pope..."

"Tripe" it may be but it is what the sports world are showing on TV and it is Liverpool FC fans that have the bad reputation and preaching to me, or this forum, about how bad other fans are and how placid Liverpool fans are just won't do it. It is Heysel, Rome, Hillsborough and Verna that is in the news. It doesn't matter to the tv producers just who is at fault but even if Liverpool fans are the victims it doesn't really matter to them.

Two weeks ago my son and I went to a local pub to watch the Everton V Villareal game. Just after Villareal had scored their first goal a couple of guys entered the bar. The older of the two (in his late 50's, early 60's) started to berate the Everton supporters, goading and using obscenities, so much so that the bar staff asked him to tone it down or be eveicted from the bar. He continued his provocative remarks but without the obscenities. Later I overheard a Manchester United fan (Man U game was televised before the Everton game) explain to the barman that Liverpool FC fans are the worst in Britain. At the time I was in no mood to correct him.

The day before at the same pub their was almost as many Everton supporters as Liverpool fans. Everything was good natured and it seemed to me that the Everton supporters were also supportive of Liverpools efforts and cheered each of Liverpools three goals.

Have you ever thought that the type of response you have made could be construed as belligerent? Is it really neccessary to come across so harsh? I got the impression, from your post, that I am fortunate to be 3,000 miles away from you, or am I also guilty of having the wrong perspective?

I don't think iv'e said anything to controversial to be honest, just telling it how it is or was, and if you don't understand what used to go in football that's not my problem. If you want to listen to badly researched nonsense in the media, a laughable Manc (Red Army say no more), or a couple of dickheads winding everyone up, then it's up to you. :cheers:

I'll sleep comfortably tonight even if you do feel badly of me plus Everton got beat.......Oh well always the Waffa Cup :cucumber:

I guess Liverpool FC will have to carry the City yet again.....:baeh3:

Ps i can understand the negative portrait of Liverpool fans because of the Heysel disaster but why doesn't the awards for best fans, we sometimes win like in Istanbul never get a mention? We are tarred by the small small small minority and due to one past shame any discrepancies so called Liverpool fans do is blown up more than if it was any other club. FACT!

L11, are you Crocky?
I've lived down South for so many years, mainly mix with Arsenal, Spurs and Luton supporters. I have never ever come across situations that Sloyne describes. There is a feeling however that Everton is a racist club, mainly due to the spectacle of the banana throwing in John Barnes' first season. I just tell them it's ignorance and we were just as bad in away games, the season before we signed Barnes.

Well as a season ticket holder and a supporter who travels to aways games as much as possible i think what i've just read is media hyped, stereotypical shite. Liverpool fans are one of the best behaved supporters in the country! Yes we take a lot of supporters around the country and i admit a lot of them aren't even scousers but with the shear amount of people we takes theres going to be the odd knobhead.

Oh and before people start talking about hills and heysel your actually best looking up what happened before commenting on them. As i'm sure with most if not all people from Liverpool and even outside Liverpool it is not a subject that people like talking about as what happened that day caused so much pain. I no it makes me very sad and i wasn't even born when it happened.

On the whole, I think Liverpool gets a good press in this country nowadays. There's always the odd dickhead journalist/pundit.
Sloyne appears to have had a horrendous recent couple of weeks and my heart goes out to him.

The article Zod's referring to is a good read.
Article (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/capitalofculture/news/tm_objectid=15887652&method=full&siteid=50061&page=1&headline=actually-brian--it-s-pretty-good-here--name_page.html)

I think some of the best ambassadors for Liverpool are the forumers on the SSC.

The standard of the posts in the Liverpool section are excellent and when ever I have posted anything to do with trams on here you all seem very friendly.

Having never been to Liverpool, my impressions through this site are positive.

Although my impressions of some of the council and their lack of vision are not so positive.

In my experience there is a mixed perception of Liverpool and its people. The media only seems to report anything negative that goes on and apart from football people outside the city seem to know little about us, a lot of people, mainly southerners say that they are pleasantly surprised when they visit the city.

I started working in Liverpool City Centre in 2000 and the managing director of our organisation came up from London, he made it clear that he felt inconvenienced coming to such an outpost and that we should be grateful that we have been given the opportunity to work. He also made several patronising comments about the "£2.99 we spend each lunchtime in the butty shop is going back into the local economy"

I went away to London in June to play in a football tournament and one lad who was with us came out on the piss the night before, he seemed to believe that being a scouser was a badge & upped his accent so that anyone in earshot would know he was not from London. He got loads of weird looks and everyone thought he was a typical lairy loudmouth and stupid scouser. It really pissed me off that he acted this way and all of us were cringeing whenever he opened his mouth. I also remember going away to Tenerife and some lads in a bar were playing pool with broad OTT scouse accents, when I walked over to them I found out that they were from Formby but were playing the "scouse card" to the limit. If you have people acting like this everytime they go out the city limits no wonder lots of people think we are knobheads.

Liverpool also gets the tag of "Self pity city" due to Hillsborough, Kenneth Bigley, James Bulger and to a lesser extent Micheal Shields & Anthony Walker now. It doesnt help our image that we are allegedly "hooked on grief" as Boris Johnston says and get defensive everytime someone criticises the city. I sit next to a Geordie girl in work and she watched teh Sun apology programme over Hillsborough and could not believe that the families were still bitter about it, she said that some scousers are morbid and obsessed with death.

Add to now, our councillors seem to be stuck in the past and don't seem to have any people who can look to the future. Outside investors must look at the city and see so much negativity, the likes of Chieftain must think that they are trying to build a skyscraper in Royston Vasey, not Liverpool, the amount of negativity & opposition they have come accross.

You can only change the perception of people once they actually come here but all the negativity that comes out of the city puts people off.

I feel that some of these developments are sparking a lot more positivity. Everyone on this website is enthused each time they hear a new development is going up or an old building restored. It is a slow process but things are coming together at a quicker rate now than ever. I think this will change the perception of people in general for this city and there will be even more pride in our environment. This will eventually rub off on the people, first of all in the city itself and it will eventually spread out of the city walls that we are a vibrant city once more. Some will accuse me of being too optimistic here but that is understandable. A lot of scousers have been negative for quite a long time. Downtrodden and accepting some kind of working class status brand. Have a read of this article from the Guardian archive that was a feature on downtownliverpool.

http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/estuary/liverpool.htm

It underlines the shifts of Liverpool's fortunes over the years, how the landscape has changes and the perceptions of the city from scousers themselves and those from the outside looking in.

You can only change the perception of people once they actually come here but all the negativity that comes out of the city puts people off.
Unfortunately it is the negativity that is reported. Th eplus is that very few people watch soccer in North America so the comments on Heysel etc., have all been heard before.

On a less positive note; The guy who was bad-mouthing Everton in the Frigate & Firkin was at it again last night. He was ejected from the bar just after half time but continued to cause a disturbance by swearing and issuing threats. He threw a tire-iron at the bar window and was arrested. The police say he is charged with causing a disturbance, wilful damage, issueing death and bodliy harm threats and being drunk in a public place. His name is Grady. Funny, he wasn't even in the pub for either of the Liverpool v CSKA game.

L11, are you Crocky?
I've lived down South for so many years, mainly mix with Arsenal, Spurs and Luton supporters. I have never ever come across situations that Sloyne describes. There is a feeling however that Everton is a racist club, mainly due to the spectacle of the banana throwing in John Barnes' first season. I just tell them it's ignorance and we were just as bad in away games, the season before we signed Barnes.

Indeed i am, as iv'e lived here mosy of my life. Moving to Portugal next year though....which is nice!

Sloyne should go into a pub in Liverpool when one team or the other is playing, the vile pettiness that the sets of fans have sank to recently has gone over the top. The so called 'friendly derby' is no more i'm afraid. Everton fans blame ALL Liverpool fans for Heysel and their demise and we dislike them because of the names they give us like "Wall-pusher" and "Murderer". Everton do have the tag of being racist but it's wrong to single them out as it's again a small small small minority of dickheads dragging them down. Liverpool did have it bad before Barnes but i think it is diminished due to our support also being from the 4 corners of the globe and you can see on match day the amout of nationalities, creeds, cultures like Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Chinese, Japanese, Thais, Irish, Blacks you name it, Liverpool has the appeal of the world massses. :cheers:

Sloyne should go into a pub in Liverpool when one team or the other is playing, the vile pettiness that the sets of fans have sank to recently has gone over the top.
But, although it is wrong, it could be expected in Liverpool, the home of both teams. It is when it spills over into places as far flung as the USA, Canada, Australia, NZ etc., that it becomes a problem and, reinforces the UK gutter press stereotyping. Whether it be Liverpool, Everton, Manchester United, Leeds, Milwall or any other English team, it is England and Liverpool in particular, that is tarred.

I would like to say one other thing; It is a sport, the players are as loyal as Benedict Arnold or Judas Iscarriot. It is only SOME of the fans who act like Neanderthals. I know of families whose members support different teams, without rancour. I have a picture of a headstone in Allerton cemetary with the emblem of both teams, husband supporting one team the wife supporting the other. My granddaughter and her freinds have a expression that fits the soccer sectarians like a glove, it is; "Get a life", it's only a sport.

Question: Why is it mostly Liverpool FC fans who seem to attract the violence? Why are Everton fans less violent?

What bollocks. I supose it Liverpool scals kicking off in Castillia last night then?

Bullshit charading as fact needs to be challenged. What cowboy media outfit spouted these claims Sloyne?

PS may I also suggest YOU check your facts before maiking such a poor remark.

Indeed i am, as iv'e lived here mosy of my life. Moving to Portugal next year though....which is nice!

you can see on match day the amout of nationalities, creeds, cultures like Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Chinese, Japanese, Thais, Irish, Blacks you name it, Liverpool has the appeal of the world massses. :cheers:

Me Mum and Dad lived close to the Stonebridge Inn for 20 years.

Agree about the appeal LFC have with different cultures. Loads of kids of Pakistani and Bangladeshi extraction wear their LFC tops with pride down herehttp://skyscrapercity.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

?????

What cowboy media outfit spouted these claims Sloyne?
Pay-Per-View, but I have also seen similar claims on Fox Sports World and the History Channel , in fact the History Channel program was an hour long and called The Centuries Worst Sports Disasters and it opened with footage of Liverpool fans being crushed to death, one of them my cousin Peter Tootle, at Hillsborough. Out of the hour long program Liverpool FC disasters were the predominant featured events.

PS may I also suggest YOU check your facts before maiking such a poor remark.
I don't think you understand, it is NOT MY FACTS but what I see and hear through the media here in North America. Also, it's what every other viewer sees and hears over here.

Helloooo!!!!!! remember the "messenger/message" adage?????????

Question: Why is it mostly Liverpool FC fans who seem to attract the violence? Why are Everton fans less violent?

Is that not your statement/question?

Is that not your statement/question?
OK! Sorry. However, and according to the "cowboy media outfits" it is the violence associated with soccer and Liverpool supporters in particular that is reported. I can't help that.

No, but you then went on to aid and abet an incorrect view, while introducing a misguided opinion of your own.

Our own worst enemies?

Fox, BBC and Disney Corp are 3 media organisations that I know have portrayed Liverpool FC in particular in a false light, are 3 were and continue to be challenged, all 3 have withdrawn, edited and removed material as a result.

If anyone witnesses this lazy reporting then do something about it.

Why is it mostly Liverpool FC fans who seem to attract the violence? Why are Everton fans less violent?

Or rather, why does an exıled Canadıan Everton fan thınk that Lıverpool FC fans - one of the best behaved club's followıngs ın the Premıershıp attract vıolence and that Everton fans - who have a worse hoolıganısm problem than Lıverpool - are less vıolent?

Actually, we know the answer to that one: for the same reasons that the ManU fan that Sloyne met hıs bar claımed that Lıverpool fans are the worst ın the country whılst ın realıty Man U fans have a worse record for crowd trouble than Lıverpool.

shall we start a proper thread titled "Who has the most knobhead fans, Liverpool or Everton" instead?

Yes and we can get Brian Sewell to judge it too.

Actually John in this context it's relevant.

It's about perception and it highlights how perception can and does clash with actuality.

On the good news front, just had a couple of people up from Kent, they've often been through Liverpool to th IOM (the only place you have to go through Liverpool to reach!) but never spent time here.

They really enjoyed the city, they're impressed with the amount of development going on, absolutely loved the cathedrals. Neither had a negative view of Liverpool but they didn't really have a view at all. Now they have.

Or rather, why does an exıled Canadıan Everton fan thınk that Lıverpool FC fans - one of the best behaved club's followıngs ın the Premıershıp attract vıolence and that Everton fans - who have a worse hoolıganısm problem than Lıverpool - are less vıolent?
I have nine siblings, eight support Liverpool, two Everton. My wife supports Liverpool, both my parents supported Liverpool my granddaughter and two nephews support Manchester United. I have a relative killed at Hillsborough (Peter Tootle) and another left brain damaged (Paul Dunn). I am a constant booster of the city of my birth. I was in the same pub for both Liverpool v CSKA Sophia games, I am happy when Liverpool win and happy when Everton win. I detest sectarianism in any shape or form and I consider blind rabid support for one team and hatred for another, as sectarianism. I have no time for bigots, racial, religious, political, ethnic or soccer. I believe them to have the inteligence closer to neanderthals than modern day humans.

My post was meant to be about the perception of Liverpool and not what some soccer fans wish it to be. I didn't phrase my submission very well, for this I apologise. However, I have found that the rest of the world views Liverpool with a fondness unequaled by any other British city and certainly not with the disdain and, sometimes, hatred displayed by the UK gutter press and some of your fellow UK citizens toward Liverpool. It is unfortunate that these types dwell on the city's negatives but, the negatives are also part of the perception of the city by those of us in the big wide world beyond Anfield Road and Goodison Park.

Brian Sewell is a good writer. Londoners like him because he is now about the only serious writer left on the Evening Standard. While out-of-towers look at London as a place for fun or shopping or whatever, in reality it’s a vast work camp comprising mean, dehumanising workplaces where countless hundreds of thousands suffer each day in cramped and airless conditions. There we toil, doing work whose pointlessness causes us to veer between boredom and rage and back again several times in the same day. Bullying is rife, everyone is exhausted, no-one has slept well, everyone has a cold, no-one is happy, everyone has just come back from a pointless and tiring weekend away in some dingey European city, and the journey home is to a piece of space that is half the size that anyone else in the country would regard as humane, and costs twice as much, and there is the fear that you will be blown up by some retarded peasant with a grudge en route to your hutch. There is only one evening newspaper, and it’s shite, the newish female editor having sacked all the good writers and stuffed if with stories about cushions, the nutritonal value of mushrooms and why it’s cool to have a haircut like Kevin Costner.

But Brian Sewell has hung on in there, and expresses his opinions honestly and well. He has been the only one who speaks honestly about the race issues plaguing London for years, and while I often disagree with him he provides a five minute burst of honesty and candour once a day to temporarily distract me from the horror as my train drags its old wheels through the endless suburbs.

As for perceptions of Liverpool, well my own perception has changed as a result of joining this Forum and watching the antics of Council members there. Councillors who oppose progress represent an insular and dieing city – not the vibrant and progressive and ambitious Liverpool I know from relatives and friends and that I experience when I visit. The political culture of Liverpool is diseased.

I have nine siblings, eight support Liverpool, two Everton.

You may want to check on the Math in that statement, Sloyne. ;)

You may want to check on the Math in that statement, Sloyne. ;)
9 sibling + me = 10 children, if 8 of the children support one team and 2 support another that would make it 10. I know, I should have written "I have nine siblings, eight of us support Liverpool and two of us support Everton" . Boy we are picky today. ;)

It`s a blessing to welcome the stranger.

Usually we (Liverpool) do it extremely well.

Some times at home and some times else where.

Many years ago I met Brian Sewell in Kensington (London - not Liverpool :) ) - he was a kind host.

Grand yes.

Evidently not needing a 99p Mac. (Although he might enjoy one.)

Regarding `Hillsborough` - Dickenson was to blame along with the police cover up.

It`s never been resolved.

Hence the bitterness.

They did not carry out the necessary crowd control and denied that they falsified `time of death` - they did not act to the need only the perception.

Whilst Liverpool may not be any more perfect than any other city - it is generally very very friendly en mass.

If however you kick a people when they are down they might just kick back despite their more general peaceful inclination.

Not every one is `Anthony Walker` - RIP

Liverpolitan - I have no doubt that Brian Sewell represents perfectly the drugery, misery and the near inhumanity of London. He knows how to be a contentious bastard and how to use big words, and he also knows how to make money out of them. That's why he does it.

What he does wrong is that he comments on cultures that he has absolutely no idea about. We don't fully understand Imperial Belgian culture, or White South African culture, or Jewish culture. If you don't belong to them, you can't.

Brian Sewell assumes that HIS culture is ascendant, meaning that it's the most important and therefore the most legitimate. And anything that differs from his received and brainwashed idea of what constitutes the 'norm' , he perceives to be inherently wrong.

Don't pay too much heed to this man. He may well sound posh and clever, but he's actually a bit of a thick fucker. Trust me

I just feel I should say this.

In the UK, Liverpool FC supporters DO NOT have a reputation for violence.

I take exception to, and I resent any suggestion that they do. Maybe in North America, but that's ignorant bullshit.

And this is coming from a Mancunian.

sure they do. LCFC supporters are infamous for their violence. recent examples include the bosnian civil war, the iraq war and lets not forget rwanda - all started by lcfc. millwall supporters on the otherhand are peace loving pacifists who sing songs around the camp fire and walk around naked smoking pot. ;)

I heard that LFC supporters started the LA riots as well

I heard that LFC supporters started the LA riots as well
The Los Angeles riots are attributed to the "perception" by the residents of Watts that they were being victimised by the LA police department. Racism, deprivation, unemployment and a lack of opportunities were also a factor. I don't think that the real grievances of a deprived community should be trivialised.

The Liverpool (City & FC) is totally different, it is your own media that perpetuate the stereotype and offer the ammunition to the rest of the worlds media outlets. The Echo, with it's continuing coverage of the James Bulger tragedy at every opportunity, is a very good illustration and it doesn't help Liverpools image. Perhaps they do, but I don't hear of the Manchester Evening News resurecting the Hindley, Brady murders on every anniversary.

I was taking the piss, as was gothic about Bosnia, Iraq & Rwanda. What would a bunch of LFC fans be doing in South Central LA in the early 90's?, got on the wrong flight for a european away game??

If you want to have a go at me for trivialising a riot then have a go at gothic for trivialising those 3 wars, when combined are slightly more serious than the riots.

Flamin' 'eck Arnie, I think Sloyne was using LA as an example of perception!

I too lived in London and was a regular reader of the Evening Standard (what else?). This newspaper, a clone of the Daily Mail, seemed to be aimed exclusively at an upper middle class section of the community who lived north of the river in fashionable suburbs such as Islington, Hampstead, Chelsea, Notting Hill etc. These people spent half their time telling everyone how much their house was worth and the other half going to parties, every single one of which was graced by Tara Palmer-Tomkinson.

As for the rest in London, this was populated by two types of low grade people, a good sort who drove late night taxis and a bad sort who stole your Rolex watch.

Brian Sewell started on the Standard simply as an art critic but, in the mid-nineties, branched out into writing weekly articles on any issue that took his fancy. In one article, he lamented about the threatened Albanian architectural and art treasures and made the point that rescueing this ancient civilization would cost less than 'saving Liverpool from its self-inflicted problems'.

I was really annoyed at this swipe against my home-town in a totally unrelated article and wrote to tell him so. I suggested that he make a trip to Liverpool to see for himself the art treasures that existed in the city. He gave me a terse reply in which he said that he knew Liverpool fairly well and would rather visit the slums of Tirana (capital of Albania) than set foot in Liverpool. I then sent him a four page letter pointing out some of the good points of the city and he replied that he would visit Liverpool 'in sackcloth and ashes'. I think he was being sarcastic.

Despite all this, I still enjoyed reading Sewell's articles. He is an intelligent, well informed and honest writer even if he does spread himself too thinly and try to be an expert on everything.

I think his main drawback is his snobbery. His upper-crust clipped vowelled English is probably as exagerated as the Scouse accents that people from Formby put on, as an earlier forummer mentioned.

Sewell's family comes from Ireland and Wales, so his ethnic background is very similar to the people of Liverpool. Perhaps, for that reason he feels he needs to present himself as a pillar of the London establishment.

I find it easier to brush off the criticisms of people such as Sewell than I do that of people who don't have any axe to grind. This morning, I was talking to a young Chinese lady who is now living in Kensington. Her comments about the lack of education of the people she has to live with and their lack of ambition together with the behaviour of children in the area where more cutting as they obviously had a lot of truth in them. It was probably worse for her as Chinese people tend to have an old-fashioned Miss Marple view of England.

What I'm saying is that we need to be open to criticism but not be too concerned about the Brian Sewells of this world.

Martin S

Very well said.

I lived in London once, and regularly bought the Manchester Evening News from Euston (how sad is that?)

Maybe Brian's never really left the confines of his Edwardian Villa in St John's Wood, with its faux-Regency boudoir

The Chinese lady could have been talking about people absolutely anywhere though.

That`s about it really!

:)

Martin S

Very well said.

I lived in London once, and regularly bought the Manchester Evening News from Euston (how sad is that?)

Maybe Brian's never really left the confines of his Edwardian Villa in St John's Wood, with its faux-Regency boudoir

The Chinese lady could have been talking about people absolutely anywhere though.

I used to buy the Liverpool Echo at Euston, (whenever it arrived) so we may have bumped into each other there.

Brian lived in Kensington (London) and then, for some reason, (ran out of money?) moved to Wimbledon. This allowed him to write long articles on the shortcoming of District Line trains.

I think the Chinese lady's comments were fairly general although she did express a preference for smaller towns like Chester.

Brian sewell is a tit and a big attention seeker anyway so who gives a shit what he thinks, all he does is pretend to be posh and talk with a ridiculous accent, he's about as posh as Charlie Slater in Eastenders. He just has a go at other cities to get attention, he must know that not every piece of great art is concentrated in London. If he doesnt then he's a bigger tit than I thought he was when I started typing the 1st sentence of this post.

With regards to the Chinese woman you spoke to Martin, I worked for an Iranian guy in an Italian restaurant (he blagged everyone he was Italian but had never set foot on Italian soil). He said he hated the English as they were all lazy, lacked ambition and expected everything on a plate, there was something in it I understood as a lot of people I know are lazy but he only ever employed people who were working on the side and expected them to work 12 hour shifts for 15 quid, maybe they were just not soft. He also used to believe while he was in Iran that all Englishmen wore suits and bowler hats and was surprised when he came to Liverpool to see "Everyone wearing tracksuits". He was not in a position to pass fashion tips as he wore the same jumper every day bought from Cheema Fashions in South Road, Waterloo

I think foreign people and British people are different in their perceptions of work but I think the dependancy/dole culture that was always tagged on Liverpool is nationwide.

The company I work for recently offered me a position in London, I said I wouldn't go back there even if they doubled my salary, they said in all seriousness how about if we tripled it, I told them I'd rather stay here for half of what I earn now. They asked me what's the problem with London? I told them I lived there once already. I think scousers remind me of New Yorkers ie New Yorkers see themselves as New Yorkers not Americans same way Scousers see themselves as Scousers not English, if anything they seem to have more of an affinity with the Irish,

I think scousers remind me of New Yorkers ie New Yorkers see themselves as New Yorkers not Americans same way Scousers see themselves as Scousers not English, if anything they seem to have more of an affinity with the Irish,

And it's all clearly evident on our relationship with those from other parts of Britain. Even on this forum certain persons insist on treating you ike an ethnic minority that you're allowed to take the piss out of. It comes from the stick Irish used to get in England. It's now deemed wrong, so scousers are the next best thing.

And it's all clearly evident on our relationship with those from other parts of Britain. Even on this forum certain persons insist on treating you ike an ethnic minority that you're allowed to take the piss out of. It comes from the stick Irish used to get in England. It's now deemed wrong, so scousers are the next best thing.

How is it clearly evident may I ask?

Regarding this forum, Things like that only happen on occasion by idiots. And to be fair, Ive seen us 'Mancs' get stick, 'Brummies', 'Cockneys', 'Geordies' etc many a time.
Slightly self-pitying if I dare say so.

How is it clearly evident may I ask?

Regarding this forum, Things like that only happen on occasion by idiots. And to be fair, Ive seen us 'Mancs' get stick, 'Brummies', 'Cockneys', 'Geordies' etc many a time.
Slightly self-pitying if I dare say so.

You're right, it is occassionally and by idiots. Mancs get stick as do Brummies, Cockney's and Geordies. However, I don't feel any of these are as comparable with the 'scouse self pity magical myster tour, shell suit' bullshit people from Liverpool get. I think Geordies come next. I've heard Geordies being almost regarded as a completely different race of people by some.

I've heard Geordies being almost regarded as a completely different race of people by some.

Yes the fat pie eating viking bastards.

Interesting really, this is about perceptions of Liverpool but what of OUR perceptions of elsewhere?

With regards to prejudice:

Scousers: Salt of the earth working class people who wear shell suits, rob everything that isnt pinned down, go on about Liverpool all the time whenever they are outside the city, everyone is related to one of the Beatles and think that they invented footy.

People from Yorkshire:Flat cap wearing wippet flying its grim up north coal miners who speak their mind at all times. Leeds men have dyed hair, wear earrings and have loads of tatoos.

Brummies: Dozy boring voiced people.

Cockneys: Wide boy jellied eel eating West Am supporters or people who think that there is nothing north of Watford.

Mancs: Scouse hating, arrogant and with annoying accents

Geordies: Fat bald lairy men who only wear bar coded footy tops at all times or scary women who drink like fishes

Woolybacks: Slow witted pie eaters who have no fashion sense. Woolyback in itslef is an insult

Welsh: Sheep shaggers & speak a stupid extinct language.

Scottish: Stupid kilt wearers, impossible to understand, tightarse, inferiority complex about English, piss heads, support crap footy teams and talk about battles against the English from centuries ago.

Irish: drunken jolly slow witted people

I am not prejudice at all!!!!!!!!!

With regards to prejudice:

Scousers: Salt of the earth working class people who wear shell suits, rob everything that isnt pinned down, go on about Liverpool all the time whenever they are outside the city, everyone is related to one of the Beatles and think that they invented footy.

People from Yorkshire:Flat cap wearing wippet flying its grim up north coal miners who speak their mind at all times. Leeds men have dyed hair, wear earrings and have loads of tatoos.

Brummies: Dozy boring voiced people.

Cockneys: Wide boy jellied eel eating West Am supporters or people who think that there is nothing north of Watford.

Mancs: Scouse hating, arrogant and with annoying accents

Geordies: Fat bald lairy men who only wear bar coded footy tops at all times or scary women who drink like fishes

Woolybacks: Slow witted pie eaters who have no fashion sense. Woolyback in itslef is an insult

Welsh: Sheep shaggers & speak a stupid extinct language.

Scottish: Stupid kilt wearers, impossible to understand, tightarse, inferiority complex about English, piss heads, support crap footy teams and talk about battles against the English from centuries ago.

Irish: drunken jolly slow witted people

I am not prejudice at all!!!!!!!!!

I`m impressed!

Thank you!

Did anyone see the programme on Friday about the north/south divide ? Brian Sewell was his pompous self again. He said everyone in places like Rochdale should contract the plague and die. Well done Brian, we love you !

I think that this site gives Mr Sewell too much publicity!. All he is is a pompous self opinionated attention seeker. He should contract the plague and die instead

Brian Sewell said everyone in places like Rochdale should contract the plague and die.
In this country he would be arrested and charged with incitement to violence and racism.

In this country he would be arrested and charged with incitement to violence and racism.

I watched the programme. Did anyone else?

It was a huge pisstake on Southern perceptions regarding up t'north.

I watched the programme. Did anyone else?

It was a huge pisstake on Southern perceptions regarding up t'north.


I am working in London and some of the locals down here thought it was "the best piss take they have seen , between them and us."

Sewell and Winner are masters of the "piss take" and the usual north south banter was some of the best (and predictable) TV I have seen in ages.

I did feel sorry for Noddy Holder ,the poor Midlands came out very badly, but no doubts about the winner:...........................................................
US, NICE NORTHERN CHAPS

Two Liverpool related items made our local press this week. The latest appeared in todays (Sat. 10, Sept.) Toronto Sun and was a story with a Liverpool byline and was to do with the razing of the home of the former Beatle, Ringo Starr. It quoted Cnlr. Flo Clucas, the city councils executive member for housing as saying; "Ringo Starr lived in the Madryn Street house for about three months before he moved to Admiral Grove, where he lived for about 20 years".

The other item appeared earlier in the week and was pertaining to Liverpool city council opting for a highway instead of a hospital pointing out that a major urban hospital would generate 5,000 plus jobs, attract a confluence of medical professionals and help maintain a critical mass of jobs in the downtown core that would justify the expenditure on mass transit and other infrastructure that goes along with a vibrant metropolitan city centre.

The paragraph was in relation to a story about Toronto Princess Margaret and the Toronto Womens Hospital joining forces to develop a new joint facilty within the downtown core.

By the way, 25 years ago when LIverpool first started talking about upgrading and extending the Edge Lane route into the downtown core, Toronto was putting the blocks on the Allen Expressway, a highway that would have fed traffic from Highway 401 into the Downtown core. For those familiar with Toronto, the highway only extends as far as Eglington Avenue, a distance of about two miles.

The above two items only re-enforce the perception that Liverpool is led by dolts with no, or very little, imagination whatsoever. But maybe, as the old saying goes, Liverpudlians get the government they deserve.

Something to sing about
February 25, 2005

Sidney newspaper




City with a musical soul ... Albert Dock with the famous Liver Building in the background. Photo: Steve Meacham

A revitalised Liverpool is making the most of its Beatles connection, reports Steve Meacham.

Roll up! The magical mystery tour is waiting to take us away. And this tour is all the more magical because there's really no mystery about where we are headed.

From the the two-up, two-down Coronation Street-like terrace where George Harrison was born to one of the most famous thoroughfares in the world, Penny Lane. To the middle-class home that bred the self-proclaimed working-class hero John Lennon. And to the overgrown garden that gave its name to one of the most influential pop songs recorded, Strawberry Fields Forever.

My two brothers and I, all Beatles nuts, have met in Liverpool for a few days to sample some of the new attractions that have helped transform a dead-end, deadbeat city into one of Britain's buzziest tourist destinations.

In the past few years, the many museums and galleries now housed in the old warehouses of historic Albert Dock have won many awards.

But the recent renaissance is nothing compared to what will happen now that Liverpool has won the right to call itself the European City of Culture in 2008.


When Liverpool won the honour in 2003, it caused considerable consternation. London hacks were instantly sent north to see whether the judges had taken leave of their senses. People were used to Liverpool's truculent image and its desolate decline after World War II, culminating in the Toxteth riots in 1981.

Twenty-four years later, the city's inhabitants boast about "the new Liverpool" and are looking forward to the celebrations in three years. For the first time in generations, civic pride is not confined to the city's traditional diversions - soccer, comedy and music.

If the regenerated waterfront is the heart of the new tourist industry, the city's Beatles legacy is its soul. In hindsight, it's amazing Liverpudlians took so long to create first-class Beatles attractions. But now they are cashing in with a vengeance. Even the airport has been renamed John Lennon International.

We've already spent a few hours at the Beatles Story, an excellent multi-media museum that occupies part of the Albert Dock complex. It's an articulate and informative account of the history of the world's most famous pop group, with audio headset commentaries by Paul McCartney, Cynthia Lennon (John's first wife), George Martin (who produced their songs) and Alan Williams (the pop promoter who "gave away the Beatles").

Naturally, the exhibition is particularly strong on the Beatles' early Liverpool years. There are recreations of the Kasbah Coffee Shop (owned by the mother of the group's first drummer, Pete Best), the Cavern Club (where the Beatles played more than 200 concerts before they became famous) and the NEMS music shop owned by Brian Epstein (who became the group's manager and mentor).

You can even sit in a mock aircraft and hear the noise that greeted the Beatles when they arrived for their breakthrough tour of the United States, with thousands of screaming fans confirming that Beatlemania had crossed the Atlantic.

So primed, we boarded the vintage 1960s bus decorated in the blue and yellow colours familiar from the film Magical Mystery Tour (the original vehicle was sold for $1.25 million to a Hard Rock Cafe in Orlando). The two-hour tour is so popular you have to book. Our wise-cracking guide looks far too young to have been around when the Beatles were in their heyday, but he knows his stuff.

Soon the bus is passing Liverpool's huge Anglican cathedral. "This is where Paul failed his audition for the choir," the guide says. "But he got his revenge when the premiere of his Liverpool Oratorio was held here. He invited the choirmaster and said, 'Remember me? You said I wasn't good enough'. And the choirmaster said, 'It's because I said you weren't good enough that you became such a success'."

Next stop is the Empress pub, where Ringo Starr's stepfather played piano and which became the cover shot for Ringo's first solo album, Sentimental Journey. Then it's on to 12 Arnold Grove, the tiny terrace where George Harrison, the Beatle who had the poorest upbringing, was born. Perhaps significantly for someone who became a notable gardener in his later years, there's not an inch of greenery anywhere.

In Penny Lane we stop to see the road sign, now painted on a wall because tourists kept souveniring the metal version. Our guide shows us where, in the words of the song, the barber shaved another customer and the bank where the banker never wears a mac. "And that's where pretty nurses used to sell poppies from a tray. Now you'll just find some unemployed bloke selling The Big Issue."

At St Peter's Church, Woolton, where McCartney first met Lennon, there's a gravestone for someone called Eleanor Rigby. "Is that coincidence?" the guide asks. "Paul swears he'd never seen the gravestone when he started writing the song."

Now we're moving through the leafy suburb where Lennon was raised by his formidable Auntie Mimi; her house, Mendips, is now owned by the National Trust.

And on to the most significant of McCartney's childhood homes, where he and the teenage Lennon wrote their early songs in the back room because the acoustics were better.

The tour ends at the new version of the Cavern Club, built in 1984 from the original bricks on roughly the same site. But first our guide points out the latest Beatles venture, the Hard Day's Night Hotel, with 100 themed rooms, which is due to open this year.

Later we take a ride on the Ferry Cross the Mersey, where a teenage Starr worked for a week as a steward before getting bored.

The ferry is a good way to appreciate Liverpool's maritime heritage. The hour-long round trip gives you a sense of how the wide, grey waters of the Mersey made Liverpool the most important port of the British empire. Millions of emigrants began their long journeys to Australia and the Americas here, symbolised by a moving statue facing the Mersey.

As we return to the wharf in front of Liverpool's iconic Liver Building, we gaze up at the odd-looking "Liver Birds" which perch on top of it. An old joke explains why the two birds face different directions. The one gazing out over the Mersey is supposed to be the female hoping to see her husband return safely from the sea. The one gazing into the town is meant to be the male hoping to find the pubs open.

From here, it's a short walk to the cafes, restaurants and museums of Albert Dock. Among them is the northern outpost of the Tate Gallery, with an impressive array of paintings by 20th-century giants such as Picasso and Modigliani. Then there are the award-winning Maritime Museum and the magnificent multimedia Museum of Liverpool Life, which charts the social history of the city.

However you spend your time, you'll have to agree - this is the most exciting Liverpool has been since the Beatles were playing twice a day at the Cavern

The so called 'friendly derby' is no more i'm afraid.

In the main, that's not true.

The problem is that the focus of most is on the loud, borish, uneducated minority.

I've sat in the home parts of Anfield loads of times, never had any bother, always had a good laugh (except in the main when we lose). Similarly I've drunk with my mates in the pubs around Anfield before and after the games (for the last ten years), and again, had no problems.

Facts are, there are idiots who support both teams, and they'll always kick off. There'll always be kids who know no better joining in stupid chants, and singing stupid songs.

It does make me laugh when 100% employment, crime free utopian places like Manchester, Newcastle, London and Middlesbrough sing "sign on" though.

It does make me laugh when 100% employment, crime free utopian places like Manchester, Newcastle, London and Middlesbrough sing "sign on" though.

So true. My favourite one is "In your Liverpool slums" which the Man Utd fans sing to us every year. Love that one. I even remember the Geordies singing "Feed the Scousers, let them know its Christmas time" last season!

:rofl:

So true. My favourite one is "In your Liverpool slums" which the Man Utd fans sing to us every year. Love that one. I even remember the Geordies singing "Feed the Scousers, let them know its Christmas time" last season!

Driving back from Man City the other week, we got stuck outside a housing estate with a concrete 'play area' in front of it.

There were about ten kids, dressed variously in grubby vests, backwards baseball caps, and bizarrely nightgowns, smashing up tellies, pallets, and then lobbing the smashed bits at each other.

Presumably the locals assume they're all bussed in from Walton.

I watched a Derby match on the wide screen in the Copplehouse a couple of years ago. The place was heaving with red and bluenoses. Some terrible banter and the language was outrageous, but no hint of violence :cheers:

In the main, that's not true.
But that doesn't matter, the readership, in the main, will believe it. It is like the quote by Bill Bryson in his book 'Notes From A Small Island' when he said about Manchester that, "Manchester is a airport with a city attached" . He has, according to Curly Turd on the Manchester forum, recanted this statement but, the millions of his readers don't know this and have the same impression of that city that Bryson gave them.

The readership of the Sydney newspaper will have the erronious impression of Merseyside derby games but this can be remedied by sending letters to the editor of that newspaper and correcting the article. If enough are sent I'm sure at least one will be printed. Unfortunately, for Manchester, the same remedies are not available when statements appear in book form.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2431/agrave3jq.jpg

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2431/agrave3jq.jpg

Nice one Paul. There's a few similar headstones near to my Mum and Dad's grave in Anfield Cemetery. Mum and Dad were both Liverpool supporters and me and my brothers often joke that they'll come back to haunt us, as their grave looks towards Goodison :toilet: :)

But that doesn't matter, the readership, in the main, will believe it.

But nearly everything, be it TV, radio, newspapers, whatever, still have the image of the '84 Milk Cup Final when it comes to the Liverpool Derby. Well, everything I've seen or heard for the past 21 years ;)

You don't think have anything to do with Evertons recent form do you?

One of the few Positives (just brushing away the chip off my shoulder!) that the media prints about Liverpool is how friendly our Derby games are. :cheers:

But nearly everything, be it TV, radio, newspapers, whatever, still have the image of the '84 Milk Cup Final when it comes to the Liverpool Derby. Well, everything I've seen or heard for the past 21 years ;)

That was one amazing day,everything was great except for Handsons blatant handball (just brushing the chip off my shoulder). :)

I bunked into the '86 Cup Final. What a game! :cheers:

http://footballfocus.xsmnet.com/facup/prog/prog1986.jpg

Alan Robinson ?

Never forget ;)

I bunked into the '86 Cup Final. What a game! :cheers:


So did I and the replay of the milk cup final at maine road. :cheers:

The first half was excellent at Wembley.!! :)

The first half was excellent at Wembley.!! :) :)

One of the few Positives (just brushing away the chip off my shoulder!) that the media prints about Liverpool is how friendly our Derby games are. :cheers:

If they're friendly they aren't real derbies are they? ;)

Friggin' media, Chris. Tomorrow's chip paper :)

If they're friendly they aren't real derbies are they? ;)

We've about over 200 mersey league derbies now and if Everton don't pull their fingers out you mancs will catch us up in about 20 odd years. :okay:

http://footballfocus.xsmnet.com/facup/prog/prog1986.jpg

I bet we never got a free-kick for that either.

Should've landed on the bastards ankle, or preferably his neck. :rant:

I bet we never got a free-kick for that either.
He was clearly stamping on a Red God :)

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2431/agrave3jq.jpg
Paul, would you please acknowledge the source of the picture you posted. Thank you.

For those interested, the headstone in Pauls submission is located in the Springwood section of the Allerton cemetary, near the crematorium.

Should've landed on the bastards ankle, or preferably his neck. :rant:
Alright Mark. Talking of bastards. No, not you :) What's this I here of Scum's Ronaldo being arrested on rape charges? Just heard it on BBC News 24 a minute ago.

(Way OT, apols)

Not sure. The Mancs were talkng about it on the Sold Trafford thread last week. Must've been a child or invalid, because I can't see that scrawney chinless rat overpowering any woman.

Alright Mark. Talking of bastards. No, not you :) What's this I here of Scum's Ronaldo being arrested on rape charges? Just heard it on BBC News 24 a minute ago.

(Way OT, apols)

There was a story a couple of weeks ago about an allegation about a footballer.

Ronaldo was in that there london at (I think) a party of Jermain Defoe..

However, there were 2 (two) footballers accused by the rapee.

Not sure. The Mancs were talkng about it on the Sold Trafford thread last week. Must've been a child or invalid, because I can't see that scrawney chinless rat overpowering any woman.
LOL! Priceless! I shouldn't laugh really.
:rofl:

Not sure. The Mancs were talkng about it on the Sold Trafford thread last week. Must've been a child or invalid, because I can't see that scrawney chinless rat overpowering any woman.

Raped your Mother/daughter/sister has he?

If not why the vitriol?

Paul, would you please acknowledge the source of the picture you posted. Thank you.

For those interested, the headstone in Pauls submission is located in the Springwood section of the Allerton cemetary, near the crematorium.

Sloyne I took that picture myself but it is actually in West Derby Cemetery,the grave you talk of is a different one completely. :)

Alright Mark. Talking of bastards. No, not you :) What's this I here of Scum's Ronaldo being arrested on rape charges? Just heard it on BBC News 24 a minute ago.

(Way OT, apols)

He'll get off with it like Clayton Blackmore did in the past.

He'll get off with it like Clayton Blackmore did in the past.

Say what you really mean. "He plays for the scum so he's bound too." :ohno:

Blackmore, Robson, edwards and now Twinkle Toes.

He looks more likely to get KB'd from Garlands than fancy a woman.

Say what you really mean. "He plays for the scum so he's bound too." :ohno:

No if it was man I'd say he was guilty. :)

Raped your Mother/daughter/sister has he?

If not why the vitriol?

Ha! He hasn't got it in him. As stated in the other thread, I don't like him because he's a whinging cheat. Talented? Yes. Rapist? I doubt it, but that's for the courts to decide.

We also hate Van Persie because he plays for United, if that is your twisted logic.

Sloyne I took that picture myself but it is actually in West Derby Cemetery,the grave you talk of is a different one completely. :)
Not so Paul, I took that picture where I said I did and posted it on a number of web-sites including a few Liverpool related sites. For anyone who would care to check, the headstone is within site of the Ungi grave site, toward the Springwood Road side and is just steps away from my mother-in-laws resting place in Allerton cemetary. My mother-in-laws grave number is 407 so I would estimate the headstone depicterd in the picture is in the 200 plots. Please don't have me prove it to you in open forum.

He's not had a tampon string in his hair for over a year now. He was probably seeking a fashionably United coloured one straight from the lady's parts.

Not so Paul, I took that picture where I said I did and posted it on a number of web-sites including a few Liverpool related sites. For anyone who would care to check, the headstone is within site of the Ungi grave site, toward the Springwood Road side and is just steps away from my mother-in-laws resting place in Allerton cemetary. My mother-in-laws grave number is 407 so I would estimate the headstone depicterd in the picture is in the 200 plots. Please don't have me prove it to you in open forum.

Well I'd love to see the so called pic you took because I took this in West Derby Cemetery and I stick by that,so please do try to prove me wrong,and if you don't believe me I'll retake it with the date in the corner just to prove you wrong. :)

Well I'd love to see the so called pic you took
I'll do better than that, I have had someone aquainted with the Lamont family get some information for me. I have the phone number of three of the Lamont brothers, Gerrard, Jimmy and Gary, and one of the sisters Denise, and the address of two of them. If you PM me I will provide you with them.

please do try to prove me wrong,and if you don't believe me
No I don't believe you and yes, do take another picture for me.

I'll do better than that, I have had someone aquainted with the Lamont family get some information for me. I have the phone number of three of the Lamont brothers, Gerrard, Jimmy and Gary, and one of the sisters Denise, and the address of two of them. If you PM me I will provide you with them.


No I don't believe you and yes, do take another picture for me.

I'm afraid your lying and I can smell bullshit a mile away,you don't know any of them because it's in West Derby and I will get a photo later.

I'm fascinated by this. Really, I am! :)

I'm fascinated by this. Really, I am! :)

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/5318/a13ma.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/327/a22pc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Well Gareth since you live in West Derby can you please confirm that poking above the trees in the clock tower on Lowerhouse Lane,and when I move slightly to the left you can also confirm the the block of flats is Langholme Heights at the east Lancs end of Lowerhouse Lane.

I can confirm the flats and the clock tower. Know this area back to front. Up there every couple of weeks.
Paul, this is about half a mile away from my Mum's house and if you go back down Lower House Lane, there's a little Jewish cemetery, then a row of shops and the Western Approaches on the corner of Storrington Avenue / Lower House Lane.

I can confirm the flats and the clock tower. Know this area back to front. Up there every couple of weeks.
Paul, this is about half a mile away from my Mum's house and if you go back down Lower House Lane, there's a little Jewish cemetery, then a row of shops and the Western Approaches on the corner of Storrington Avenue / Lower House Lane.

I'm also willing to back this up. :)

I can confirm the flats and the clock tower. Know this area back to front. Up there every couple of weeks.
Paul, this is about half a mile away from my Mum's house and if you go back down Lower House Lane, there's a little Jewish cemetery, then a row of shops and the Western Approaches on the corner of Storrington Avenue / Lower House Lane.

So what the fuck is Sloyne on then offering to give me phone numbers to the Lamont family :runaway: Would he really have gave me a phone number and had the person go along with his story just to prove this grave was in Allerton. :jippo:

Dave I live right by the ******** ****** ***** that's why I was able to provide this pic in super quick time.No doubt he still wont have it but I have proved him to be seriously crazy,he's been spending too much time in America. :weirdo:

I'm also willing to back this up. :)


Thanks Lads,your both in the line of fire now because this could go on. :)

Like I wrote in a previous post before this "which cemetery?" cropped up, there are similar headstones in Anfield Cemetery, indentical apart from the names (errrm, obviously :) ) They also come in black if you want one :)

Thanks Lads,your both in the line of fire now because this could go on. :)
On the other hand Paul, you may have superimposed the pics! :) :runaway:

On the other hand Paul, you may have superimposed the pics! :) :runaway:

Don't go there Dave that'll be his get out clause,I wouldn't know how anyway. :)

So what the fuck is Sloyne on then offering to give me phone numbers to the Lamont family :runaway: Would he really have gave me a phone number and had the person go along with his story just to prove this grave was in Allerton. :jippo: :
Better still, call 151-233-3005 and give the name of the last person intered and the date of that interment and they will give you the plot number. The phone number is for Allerton Cemetary. Easy really. Maybe a "disinterested" third party would like to call and confirm this?

Can't believe, though not impossible, that there are two identical headstones in two different Liverpool cemetaries.

On the other hand Paul, you may have superimposed the pics! :) :runaway:


Our Paul wouldn't do that,a surely! :omg:

Anyhow, I'm sure Sloyne will post his picture so we'll have a better idea of how this mix up came about.

Better still, call 151-233-3005 and give the name of the last person intered and the date of that interment and they will give you the plot number. The number is for Allerton Cemetary. Easy really.

Can't believe, though not impossible, that there are two identical headstones in two different Liverpool cemetaries.

Dig up your picture, Sloyne. I'd like to compare them.

Like I wrote in a previous post before this "which cemetery?" cropped up, there are similar headstones in Anfield Cemetery, indentical apart from the names (errrm, obviously :) ) They also come in black if you want one :)

If Hannibal Lechter comes over from Canada he knows where I live now and I may be needing it.I think I'll remove where I live or I might end up as lunch. :eat:

So what the fuck is Sloyne on then offering to give me phone numbers to the Lamont family :runaway: Would he really have gave me a phone number and had the person go along with his story just to prove this grave was in Allerton. :jippo:

Dave I live right by the Jewish Cemetery on Lowerhouse that's why I was able to provide this pic in super quick time.No doubt he still wont have it but I have proved him to be seriously crazy,he's been spending too much time in America. :weirdo:
Paul, I used to play footy on the Dwerryhouse playing fields many years ago. Happy Days! :cheers:

Our Paul wouldn't do that,a surely! :omg:

Anyhow, I'm sure Sloyne will post his picture so we'll have a better idea of how this mix up came about.

Or copy mine. :naughty:

Dig up your picture, Sloyne. I'd like to compare them.
Jesus Gareth! Can't you think of a more suitable phrase than "dig up?" :) :cheers:

Paul, I used to play footy on the Dwerryhouse playing fields many years ago. Happy Days! :cheers:

Remember ROMA (Royal Oak Muirhead Avenue) great name,and East Villa. :)

Our Paul wouldn't do that,a surely! :omg:
Anyhow, I'm sure Sloyne will post his picture so we'll have a better idea of how this mix up came about.
There is no point, my picture is exactly the one Paul D plagerised. I used a Minolta Dimage A1 set at maximum resolution. We, my wife and I, visit this cemetary at least twice a year and while she is tending her mothers grave I wander around the plots reading the inscriptions. Like I said, this headstone is about 100 paces in from the crematorium wall and about 200 paces down toward Springwood Avenue from the Ungi grave site.

Turnig into the cemetary from Springwood Avenue, take the second pathway on the left, (the crematory wall is on the right) and go down about 100 paces then turn left and look around in that area. There is a water spigot potruding from the crematorium wall and the headstone is in one of these rows.

Has anyone asked why I would claim this photo as one taken by me? Just what purpose would I have for doing this? Dave Wood (Scouserdave) is constantly complaining, and rightly so, about his pictures being plagerised and I don't think I am any different in that respect. I now consider Paul D a plagerist and liar and will discount anything he publishes.

Unfortunately, I won't be returning to Liverpool until the spring but, I am determined to expose this plagerist for what he is and I won't forget next time we are in that cemetary.

I wonder would someone on the forum care to do me a favour? I need to someone to pick up, from Allerton Cemetary, the result of a grave search I have requested. The cost of a grave search is ten pounds, I will get a international money order and send it via FedEx, prior to whoever will assist me in collecting the result of the search. I have the name of the person at Allerton, who will give you the documentation.

Thanks in advance.

Good grief - let the dead rest in peace!

Is anybody loosing any royalties?

A spirited bit of banter nevertheless :runaway:

:) :cheers:

I now consider Paul D a plagerist and liar and will discount anything he publishes.

And a master forger. :ohno:

If you knock at ours next time your here and I'll take you over the road and show you personally,it wouldn't be a problem.

if anyone on the forum just reads back a bit they'll know who the liar is,now put me on your "Ignore List" and leave me alone FFS. :cheers:

Ahh, Mr. D, Master Forger of Old Liverpool Town.

Can you knock out a few fivers for us mate? I want to go down the pub tonight and I'm not paid until the end of the week. Cheers. :cheers: ;)

For fake's sake! :)

Paul, didn't it take you about six months to figure out how to upload pics into the intenet? you must be on one hell of a learning curve if you've figured out how to steal other peoples pics, and forge pics of such quality. I salute you! :D

Ahh, Mr. D, Master Forger of Old Liverpool Town.

Can you knock out a few fivers for us mate? I want to go down the pub tonight and I'm not paid until the end of the week. Cheers. :cheers: ;)

I wouldn't put you in that situation because that may have GRAVE consequences for you if your caught. :bowtie:

Paul, didn't it take you about six months to figure out how to upload pics into the intenet? you must be on one hell of a learning curve if you've figured out how to steal other peoples pics, and forge pics of such quality. I salute you! :D

Much longer and then I got her to do it. :)

Much longer and then I got her to do it. :)
"Her?" Is that your alter ego, Maggie?
Poli and Patrick. What a pair :)

"Her?" Is that your alter ego, Maggie?
Poli and Patrick. What a pair :)

Don't you fuckin start you'll have everyone on my case now. :D

Ahh, Mr. D, Master Forger of Old Liverpool Town. Not forgetting Paul's hitherto unknown genius for EXIF data manipulation too :).

^ He's the master of metadata manipulation. And other alliterations.

Oi, Orangeade, where's my Rotterdam tourist info? ;)

Sorry matey, I'll send you something later today. My mum's been in hospital for the last couple of days so I've had other things on my mind.

Oh, sorry to hear about that MO. I hope she's ok.

Piss taking apart, I don't doubt that Patrick has taken a similar pic in Allerton cemetery. Though supplying this thread with names of members of a Lamont family was unnecessary, however.

But why go off on one at Paul when to me, it's obvious that Mr D as taken all the Peggy Lamont headstone pics so far on this thread?

Oh well, tea time beckons.

Food, yummy, black bean sauce!

:eek2:

Food, yummy, black bean sauce!

:eek2:
Nah, spag bol tonight :)

Paul D. If, as you say, you took the picture and that is the first time you posted it to the web, then you might wish to tell me how come I posted the same picture to a number of websites a couple months ago?
Thanks in advance.

Paul D. If, as you say, you took the picture and that is the first time you posted it to the web, then you might wish to tell me how come I posted the same picture to a number of websites a couple months ago?
Thanks in advance.

It was originally posted on the hacked Liverpool hidden charms thread and was not the first time I posted it and I never said it was. :)

It was originally posted on the hacked Liverpool hidden charms thread and was not the first time I posted it and I never said it was. :)
Could you provide me with the aproximate date of the first posting? Thanks in advance.

Why don't you just leave me alone because it's getting a bit tedious now,you have been made to look a fool with my photographic evidence and they were verified as being taken in West Derby Cem to TWO of our respected members.1/Where is the photo you say you took and why haven't you posted it yet??(please do) 2/Where is the link to the website you say you originally posted it on??(please provide) 3/Why is my photographic evidence not enough for you?? If I remember rightly it was only recently you were having trouble putting up pictures on this forum so why are you so good at it on other forums?? Please provide the link to the forum you are supposed to have originally posted the pic on and the original picture or you will lose even more credibility(if that's possible). :cheers:

Why don't you just leave me alone because it's getting a bit tedious now,you have been made to look a fool with my photographic evidence
But that evidence is fake. It contains all the same shots of the stone, taken from EXACTLY the same perspective, not the slightest variarion in angle, shadows, elevation or depth etc. If you look at the background of both pictures, one has an opened grave covered with a plywood red coloured board with a cross monument next to it and a grassed area seperating it from the graves behind. The second "proof" picture has a square headstone next to it and a pathway seperating it from the graves behind. In eitherr picture some items of the other would appear in both, in yours none do. Even a blind man can see they are fake. I admit there are some who will refuse to see this, earlybird mentality I will call it. I have irrefutable proof that I posted this picture to other websites sometime back. I also have the name of the stonemasons who made the stone and the date the sited it (installed it). Which all leaves you with very little wiggle room. Wrong date and I provide the web site links and name and phone number of the monument company and your screwed. Go for it Paul D.

But that evidence is fake. It contains all the same shots of the stone, taken from EXACTLY the same perspective, not the slightest variarion in angle, shadows, elevation or depth etc. Even a blind man can see that. I admit there are some who will refuse to see this, earlybird mentality I will call it. I have irrefutable proof that I posted this picture to other websites sometime back. I also have the name of the stonemasons who made the stone and the date the sited it (installed it). Which all leaves you with very little wiggle room. Wrong date and I provide the web site links and name and phone number of the monument company and your screwed. Go for it Paul D.

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/327/a22pc.jpg


http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/5318/a13ma.jpg


http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2431/agrave3jq.jpg
and the original pic,I have to admit they all look the same,even down to the different flowers on the latest pictures. :runaway:

Not the slightest variation in angle hey,I think someone needs to make an appointment with the opticians.Now about that link to the other forum and oh yes the picture you took,please provide the link and post your original picture.(or can't you)

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/327/a22pc.jpg


http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/5318/a13ma.jpg


http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2431/agrave3jq.jpg
and the original pic,I have to admit they all look the same. :runaway:

Not the slightest variation in angle hey,I think someone needs to make an appointment with the opticians.Now about that link to the other forum and oh yes the picture you took,please provide the link and post your original picture.(or can't you)
Look at the backgrounds man. A pathway in one and a grassed area in the other and an open grave with a red plywood safety covering in the other. And look at the surrounding gravestones, not even the one on the right of the picture match. One is a cross and the other, obviously, a solid rectangular monument. What happened to the pathway between shots? If you compare the original pictire with the doctored efforts you will see grass and other monuments behind the grave, nary a path in sight. How do you explain this away? How about the date you took the original picture?

You obviously haven't noticed one has a tower block in it and the other a clock tower you fuckin knob suggesting a different angle and you blind as well as stupid,link and picture please.

Will someone tell this tit that everyone knows who's telling the truth because I'm getting annoyed with his stupidity now. :weirdo:

Will someone tell this tit that everyone knows who's telling the truth because I'm getting annoyed with his stupidity now. :weirdo:
I can superimpose anything anywhere. The pics are a fake. HOW ABOUT THE DATE YOU TOOK THE PICTURE?

The angle's about 60 degrees different between the shots.

In the first shot ^^ the white cross visible in the second is hidden behind the stone in question. In the second, Paul seems to be standing just to the left of the path visible in the first and has pointed his camera at the monument to which is in the opposite direction to the path. That's why the path isn't visible on the second shot.

Looking at both pics, if Paul is a photoshop whizz, photo-forger, he's bloody good one - look at the reflection of the path on the gravestone in the first pic, and the darker appearence of the stone in the second, as in this shot the photographer is between the brightly lit path and the stone. And all this with the engraving clearly and convincingly visible in both shots. Maybe I should ask him for some dodgy fivers, this guy's got the skills to forge the bills! ;)

Anyway, I'm sure I'm not the only one uneasy about having an internet discussion about the grave of an old lady who died only four and a half years ago and whose relatives may have internet access.

Actually Sloyne, you can see the base of the cross visible in the second picture at the very top of the third picture. Have a closer look at the corners of the gravestone Sloyne. It is a 3D object, shown at different angles in all three pics.

Paul, I suggest you go out and fill your memory card with pictures around the site, leading all the way to the front gates where the sign stating what cemetery it is, if this bothers you still.

Can this eternal discussion not be moved to the `sky bar please?

"Perceptions of Liverpool" is meant to be a thread about how the city region is percieved both locally and in the media etc.....

Admitedly it started about proud supportors on opposing sides sharing common earth.

Get the picture!

:eek2:

Just being dropped full stop would be nice but I just can't see that happening. :sleepy:

Well, if you are talking about perceptions of Liverpool, I'd suggest that the news today that the BBC's move north will have a very positive effect on this.

With a good proportion of the media in the north, I'd expect that they way the north is portrayed should improve greatly.

I have a feeling that the objects in Paul D's photo's are aligned similar to this.
The two lines symbolise the two different shots.

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/5070/westderbycemetryj4kg.jpg

And on and on it goes....That first photo which has caused all the trouble was taken using a Konica Minolta Z2 on the 7th of May this year. Yesterday's cemetary shots were also taken using a Z2. "Paul's" Crosby beach photos on the Hidden Charms thread were taken with a Z2. Those pre-hacking photos of Paul with his family at the Red Squirrel reserve at Formby were taken with a Z2. Guess what? Paul owns a Z2. Sloyne, however, says he owns a Minolta A1 and used it for the offending photo. Go figure.

And on and on it goes....That first photo which has caused all the trouble was taken using a Konica Minolta Z2 on the 7th of May this year. Yesterday's cemetary shots were also taken using a Z2. "Paul's" Crosby beach photos on the Hidden Charms thread were taken with a Z2. Those pre-hacking photos of Paul with his family at the Red Squirrel reserve at Formby were taken with a Z2. Guess what? Paul owns a Z2. Sloyne, however, says he owns a Minolta A1 and used it for the offending photo. Go figure.

Thanks Mersey Orange. :)

I can superimpose anything anywhere. The pics are a fake. HOW ABOUT THE DATE YOU TOOK THE PICTURE?

Patrick, you wrote that you took your pic at full resolution. I think your camera is a 5 megapixel. That would make the pixel size 2608 x 1952 and file size at around 2Mb. Could you please post the full resolution image?

[2 mins later]
And the links you posted your pic to. Ta.

And on and on it goes....That first photo which has caused all the trouble was taken using a Konica Minolta Z2 on the 7th of May this year. Yesterday's cemetary shots were also taken using a Z2. "Paul's" Crosby beach photos on the Hidden Charms thread were taken with a Z2. Those pre-hacking photos of Paul with his family at the Red Squirrel reserve at Formby were taken with a Z2. Guess what? Paul owns a Z2. Sloyne, however, says he owns a Minolta A1 and used it for the offending photo. Go figure.

Just checked the images info in Photoshop and it's all as MO writes, plus lots more data.

Well, if you are talking about perceptions of Liverpool, I'd suggest that the news today that the BBC's move north will have a very positive effect on this.

With a good proportion of the media in the north, I'd expect that they way the north is portrayed should improve greatly.

White City or Salford, makes no difference - still another city, another perspective. Nothing in this for Liverpool at all, and I think you know it. Hopefully the licence fee settlement will scupper it. This has been discussed on other threads.

Jeez! For a moment........! :)
http://www.itn.co.uk/news/1168633.html

Poli, I'm not suggesting Liverpool will get loads of jobs, what I am saying is we'll have less program, such as Wife Swap, that often make out northerners to be backward scroungers, funded by the hard working south - this move will hopefully start to reverse this trend, which will benifit the perception of all northern cities.

Poli, I'm not suggesting Liverpool will get loads of jobs, what I am saying is we'll have less program, such as Wife Swap, that often make out northerners to be backward scroungers, funded by the hard working south - this move will hopefully start to reverse this trend, which will benifit the perception of all northern cities.

No it will not. Manchester-based broadcasters have happily rubbished Liverpool for decades, whether they are from Granada or the BBC. There is no generic "northern" identity to project or protect, it's a fantasty.

White City or Salford, makes no difference - still another city, another perspective. Nothing in this for Liverpool at all, and I think you know it. Hopefully the licence fee settlement will scupper it. This has been discussed on other threads.

Quite correct.

Manchester - a vast and soon to get vaster television infrastructure

Liverpoool - a couple of small radio stations.

A disgusting and indefensible state of affairs for a city that has come up with so much creative talent over the years.

god you like your victim status don't you

Ref: (http://)

Agree with most of the survey, but the standard of driving in Liverpool has dropped dramatically in the last 4 years.
--------------------------
Capital of courtesy

Oct 21 2005

By Nick Coligan, Liverpool Echo


LIVERPOOL has been named as the second most polite city in the country.

A new survey saw the city pass a series of "courtesy tests" with flying colours.

Researchers checked whether shop assistants said please and thank you, and whether people going into public buildings held the door for those behind them.

Drivers were observed to see if they thanked those who let them into rush-hour traffic from side roads, while passers-by were assessed for their willingness to stop and help someone who had dropped their shopping.

The research found that people in Liverpool were polite 70% of the time, second only behind Newcastle, where the figure was 77%.

It comes as a welcome boost to the city as it prepares for Capital of Culture 2008, when thousands of tourists will flood into Merseyside.

Ed Oliver of the City Centre Stores Committee said: "This research is typical of the people of Liverpool - they are generally very helpful. They will go out of their way to help people with information and good service.

"It is just part and parcel of being from Liverpool, and people from Newcastle are very similar."

The ECHO's Capital of Courtesy campaign checks out politeness and helpfulness at shops and organisations around Merseyside.

Two firms that regularly produce top results are Mersey Ferries and fashion store Karen Millen.

Jennifer Brady, manager of Karen Millen's Bold Street store, said: "We just tell our staff to be positive, motivated and enjoy their day.

"We try to give every customer the ultimate shop. If we are not polite, they might not come back again."

Mark Dowd, chairman of Mersey Ferries' owner Merseytravel, said: "We like to think all our people understand people and our staff are a great example of that."

In the Readers Digest survey, the north emerged more polite than the south.

god you like your victim status don't you

Oh come on Tranny (-that's who you are isn't it?) There's no need to start resorting to that rubbish. It is perfectly legitimate for tax payers in Liverpool to want a fair share of the benefits that come from a state-imposed corporation.

People in this country are forced by the state to pay for the BBC- so why shouldn't we all enjoy jobs and prosperity from it? Is that really so unreasonable?

All other considerations aside, Liverpool does produce one hell of a lot of media talent for the UK.

I'm sure if London tried to snatch all the jobs back from Manc- it wouldn't make you a 'victim' to want to know why, or to complain about it.

god you like your victim status don't you

On the contrary. As you can see, a bit of digging exposes the flaws in the "Move to Manchester" project.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/evidenced_policy/

White City or Salford, makes no difference - still another city, another perspective. Nothing in this for Liverpool at all, and I think you know it. Hopefully the licence fee settlement will scupper it. This has been discussed on other threads.

:lol:

As far as I'm concerned, Liverpool shouldn't worry too much about having state-owned rubbish locate here. Our strategy should be to attract private enterprise. If the Mancs want to slurp shit out of London's hands then let the miserable, horrible pigs enjoy themselves for once. :cheers:

bladders -the point of the move up north is not to spread the jobs, but to change the culture of the BBC to be more 'northern'.

This is what will benifit Liverpool.

How does maintaining the southern baised culture help Liverpool (as Poli suggests).

I'd suggest the people of Liverpool have more in common with Mancs that those people of London.

You seem upset that none of the jobs are going to Liverpool - do the people of Warrington get upset that the passport office is in Liverpool?

As far as I'm concerned, Liverpool shouldn't worry too much about having state-owned rubbish locate here. Our strategy should be to attract private enterprise. If the Mancs want to slurp shit out of London's hands then let the miserable, horrible pigs enjoy themselves for once. :cheers:

:lol:

bladders - I presume you'll be campaigning for the passport office to leave Liverpool then???

Our strategy should be to attract private enterprise.


The reason Flybe are leaving Liverpool for Manchester - not enough business customers for Liverpool.

The reason Virgin won't got half hourly from Liverpool to London (6 trains an hour in the morning from Manchester) is due to lack of business traffic.



I think you have a very long way to go o catch up with the Manchester economy.

bladders -the point of the move up north is not to spread the jobs, but to change the culture of the BBC to be more 'northern'.

This is what will benifit Liverpool.

How does maintaining the southern baised culture help Liverpool (as Poli suggests).

I'd suggest the people of Liverpool have more in common with Mancs that those people of London.

You seem upset that none of the jobs are going to Liverpool - do the people of Warrington get upset that the passport office is in Liverpool?

Making the BBC more 'northern' will not really do anything for Liverpool, no more than making it Welsh of 'midlanese'.

Also, the passport office hardly has the prestige or cultural prestige that a major BBC operation would bring.

bladders -the point of the move up north is not to spread the jobs, but to change the culture of the BBC to be more 'northern'.

This is what will benifit Liverpool.

How does maintaining the southern baised culture help Liverpool (as Poli suggests).

I'd suggest the people of Liverpool have more in common with Mancs that those people of London.

You seem upset that none of the jobs are going to Liverpool - do the people of Warrington get upset that the passport office is in Liverpool?

Well perhaps the offices could be split equally between all of the big cities so that it is a truly national TV corporation?
That sounds fair to me.

Ultimately it doesn't matter- Manchester will need to attract a lot of the necessary skills from Liverpool (and prob Leeds) anyway.

[QUOTE=Metrolink]
I'd suggest the people of Liverpool have more in common with Mancs that those people of London.
[QUOTE]

Bloody rubbish. How do people identify? Probably most people with their country mainly, whether they say that is England (or Wales, for those in the Liverpool Bay area across the border), or Britain.....and then probably nearest big city, and town, and bit of town - it depends who you are talking to. If I meet someone from China, I don't bother trying to explain the part of my town I am from, but for someone local I will.

Just because I was born in Liverpool, why should I feel more in common with someone from Manchester than I do with someone from Dublin or New York or Bristol? It's more of that "fantasy region" stuff.

This "northern identity" stuff is just nonsense.

Christ, I thought this thread was supposed to be about PERCEPTIONS OF LIVERPOOL??

It starts off well enough then sinks into....well.....just read it from the beginning like I just did!!!!

Who's footy fans are most violent..
That grave stone isn't where you say..
Why can't we have a piece of the BBC pie..


If you want to know what peoples perceptions of Liverpool are, just read this thread again and you might get a good idea.

PS: I can't honestly believe SLOYNE posting someones phone number on a world wide forum simply to try and prove his point. You dickhead

The reason Flybe are leaving Liverpool for Manchester - not enough business customers for Liverpool.

The reason Virgin won't got half hourly from Liverpool to London (6 trains an hour in the morning from Manchester) is due to lack of business traffic.



I think you have a very long way to go o catch up with the Manchester economy.

Damn right. And that is why it is so wrong that a state-run enterprise should arbitrarily decide to give 2,000 highly paid jobs to one city! And, if you study the plans, it is far more than that - they are talking about an "MIT" effect, with a campus to attract other related industries and jobs.

Read the original document on the link I provided (you might have to join to access it in the files, cant remember, but you can join and then leave if you want), it is a despicably thin and poorly researched case. There was a high level political decision to move to Manchester and then the rest was just done to justify that decision.

This decision stinks and will not do.

incoming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reason Flybe are leaving Liverpool for Manchester - not enough business customers for Liverpool.

The reason Virgin won't got half hourly from Liverpool to London (6 trains an hour in the morning from Manchester) is due to lack of business traffic.



I think you have a very long way to go o catch up with the Manchester economy.

Read my post cretin. That's why "our strategy should be to attract more private enterprise."

This will happen anyway with all the major improvements in the infrastructure. There is nothing special about Manchester- it just started regenerating earlier. Things will change over the next few years for Liverpool. I will bet you any amount of money on that- it is obvious.

After all, Lpool was the 2nd richest UK city up til the 1960s. As Strauss famously said "It happened, and therefore it can happen again." This is the case for all events in human history.

What the Manc SSC forum shows is that a lot of Mancunions are completely and utterly thick and pig ignorrant. That is certainly my experience. So there is no reason to assume the city's prosperity is guaranteed forever.

We'll be back before long, don't worry about that Tranny :cheers:

Read my post cretin. That's why "our strategy should be to attract more private enterprise."

This will happen anyway with all the major improvements in the infrastructure. There is nothing special about Manchester- it just started regenerating earlier. Things will change over the next few years for Liverpool. I will bet you any amount of money on that- it is obvious.

After all, Lpool was the 2nd richest UK city up til the 1960s. As Strauss famously said "It happened, and therefore it can happen again." This is the case for all events in human history.

What the Manc SSC forum shows is that a lot of Mancunions are completely and utterly thick and pig ignorrant. That is certainly my experience. So there is no reason to assume the city's prosperity is guaranteed forever.


We'll be back before long, don't worry about that Tranny :cheers:

dream on blabberpants, you've got some nerve calling Mancs pig ignorant when all you do is call people names, you show Liverpool up.

dream on blabberpants, you've got some nerve calling Mancs pig ignorant when all you do is call people names, you show Liverpool up.

As I've already pointed out flower- I will debate with anybody who has a reasonable mind. When the likes of you go round spouting meaningless statisitcs and getting your thong in a twist becuase somebody says Chicago is bigger than Manchester, it becomes obvious that you are boring and stupid- and it is far more enjoyable to insult you than to try to reason with you.

Go back to polishing your nails sausage jockey!

I'm still waiting for Patrick's pic and links to prove Paul D is the lying schweinhund that he claims.

I'm having an early night tonight btw Pat :cheers:

deary me...THINK of something a bit more original mate, if thats possible.

Call me ALL THE NAMES YOU WANT!!!!! knock yourself out, theres nowt else to do in the Pool

deary me...THINK of something a bit more original mate, if thats possible.

Call me ALL THE NAMES YOU WANT!!!!! knock yourself out, theres nowt else to do in the Pool

It's obvious why you couldn't find any restaurants- none of the ones in Liverpool serve the kind of meat you're after do they? Off you pop love. :wave:

It's obvious why you couldn't find any restaurants- none of the ones in Liverpool serve the kind of meat you're after do they? Off you pop love. :wave:

Fuckin hell Blab :uh:

is that the best you can do? try again you illiterate, poorly educated wall pusher

You got this idea im some sort of limp wristed queen, well think again, I'd knock you out in no time at all

Do you carry bricks in your hand bag or something?

LOL yeah I found em' on the floor at Heysel, had to move a few dead bodies out the way first though

You see Dave- this one's a nasty shit. I found this out the other day.

You see Dave- this one's a nasty shit. I found this out the other day.

Apologies Blab :bash:

Well you might want to think about who your calling names blabbergob, you've made me sink to that level with your tirade of phobic abuse..you started it

anyway...Perceptions of Liverpool?

Roly, time to come move on mate!

We've got enough to discuss on the Manchester forum! :)

Well you might want to think about who your calling names blabbergob, you've made me sink to that level with your tirade of phobic abuse..you started it

You've got to be capable of sinking to such a disgraceful level in the first place. No one makes you.

Roly, time to come move on mate!

We've got enough to discuss on the Manchester forum! :)

Probably best :cheers:

Roly, time to come move on mate!

We've got enough to discuss on the Manchester forum! :)

I'm multi tasking...no you're right :runaway:

Well you might want to think about who your calling names blabbergob, you've made me sink to that level with your tirade of phobic abuse..you started it

There you go blaming other people for your own choices. There's no need to disrespect the dead because I was taking the piss.

Best if you stay away now cock.

sloyne, do you think you could do me a favour and lay off the insults a bit? the rest of you guys, calm down too please. ive locked this thread for now so everyone can take a time out.