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View Full Version : "Stop building tall residential towers!" says government


source27
August 26th, 2005, 06:12 PM
Israeli housing ministry and technion researchers organized a committee
this week to deal with a future crisis of residential skyscrapers which are likely to become slums in 15 years because in a research done by the technion it was found that tall buildings over 10 floors would need major repairs and replacement of fire equipment, elevators and exterior, and this would cost about 1 million dollars per building for a 10-20 storey buildings.
As these buildings are mostly for medium to high socioeconomic families, they wont be able to spend that amount when the time comes for repairs, the building's value will come down and it will eventually turn into a slum.

The research also showed high maintanance prices of 1-2 dollars per sqm
for these towers for cleaning, elevators, security and pool or gym.

When asking similar type builders and planners in Hong kong, America and Europe how they tackle this problem they advised: "just dont build them at all in the first place".

The research found that towers near coastal areas tend to decay even faster and so need even larger amounts for renovation in quicker periods.
A 30 storey tower near the coast would need renovation in 10-15 years
of its facade, and elevators, if not built out of totally resisnant materials.
Some facades start to crack, or fall of, like ceramic tiles.

This is a known problem in all the world, but builders and contractors dont like to mention it to buyers. They hide the maintenance costs, which often reach 500-1000$ a month for a tower, so only luxury towers can afford a normal level of mainanence but even these wont like to pay millions over renovations in 10 years from now, but will sell for lower prices to even weaker buyers and move to new apartments, so these will deteriorate.
In Sea and Sun project, after 15 years already the facade needs renovation, as the towers are very close to the sea.

This is a problem not talked about in most coastal cities. Some build quickly with no garantee by the builder and so the building will deteriorate causing the initial great investment to turn sour.
The taller the building the more expensive the requirements for maintenance and for future renovation, about 20 percent of its value in future.
More apartments does not mean spreading the costs, but instead means more use of the equipment such as elevators which will need to be replaced more often, or a maintenance firm, which even increases the costs.

A lot of 20 storey towers in Israel are already being built or in the pipelines which may turn into slums, they warn. The policty should be to build these
only for luxury clients that can afford it, and to build much lower - 3-10 floors only, for middle class.

article in hebrew from Haaretz 26/8:

עלויות מרקיעות שחקים

מאת אריק מירובסקי




פרויקט סי אנד סאן. שחיקה של החומרים בשל הקירבה אל הים

תצלום: גיא רייביץ

במגדלי תל אביב החליפו פעמיים חברת ניהול, בהתחלה עקב אי שביעות רצון מהמחיר שגבתה החברה המקורית שפעלה במקום, ולאחר מכן עקב אי שביעות רצון מאיכות השירות שנתנו שתי החברות האחרות. בסוף חזרו לחברה הראשונה; מרפסות במגדל סי אנד סאן היוקרתי שבצפון תל אביב החלו להתקלף, עקב הקירבה לים, ואחרי 14 שנות אכלוס, חברת הניהול במקום תיאלץ להתחיל בעבודות שיפוץ. ברבי קומות באזורים פחות יוקרתיים בארץ נמצא שהתחזוקה ירודה ושהדיירים אינם מסוגלים להשתלט על תחזוקת המבנים בכוחות עצמם. "רבי קומות", סבורים החוקרים שבדקו את הנושא, "הם פצצה מתקתקת שניצבת לפתחנו".

המחקר שנערך על ידי המרכז לחקר עיר ואזור בטכניון והוזמן על ידי משרד הפנים, מורה כי כדי לתחזק ברמה נאותה רבי קומות של 10 קומות ויותר, צריך לשלם 1.2 דולרים למ"ר בממוצע בחודש, כך שבעלי דירה בגודל ממוצע של 100


מגדלי נאות גולדה בנתניה. הדיירים לא הצליחו לתחזק הפרויקט

תצלום: ניר קידר
מ"ר צריכים לשלם דמי ניהול חודשיים של 540 שקל. כמה יכולים לעשות זאת? מי שהתפתה ורכש פרויקט שבו יש גם חדר כושר, שמירה ובריכה, ישלם כבר דמי הניהול של 2 דולרים למ"ר בממוצע לחודש, כלומר 900 שקל לדירת 100 מ"ר.

מנכ"ל האגודה לתרבות הדיור, ראובן צדוק, מספר על פרויקטים בבאר שבע ובאשדוד, שאינם מיועדים לאוכלוסייה עשירה, שבהם התלהבו קוני דירות ממה שראו בפרוספקטים, מבלי ששאלו את עצמם מה העלות של הבריכה, חדר הכושר או השומר.

אבל הצרה הגדולה ביותר היא רבי הקומות. מערכות המעליות, המים, כיבוי השריפות והאחרות מתבלות, וכל 15 שנים בממוצע נדרשות להחלפה, או לשיפוץ יסודי. המחירים של אלה, מעריכים בטכניון, יגיעו למיליון דולר למגדל, או ל-20% משווי הדירות שבו. אין כיום, לא בפרויקטים עממיים ולא ביוקרתיים, מחשבה לגבי השיפוצים הכוללים שיצטרכו לערוך בפרויקטים אחרי 15 שנים, ומניסיון העבר בישראל, רובם יתדרדרו ברמת התחזוקה שלהם, מחירי הדירות שבהם יירדו בצורה דראסטית והם ייהפכו למפגעים הן לתושבים הן לסביבה.

"כבר כשמדובר במבנים קטנים יחסית של 4-3 קומות, ועד הבית מתקשה לטפל במקרים של זיפות גגות, או טיפול בצנרת ביוב. חברות הניהול, שאמורות להחליף את ועד הבית ואמורות להיות מקצועיות יותר, פועלות בפרויקטים גדולים יותר ומורכבים יותר, אולם גם אצלן אנו מבחינים בבעיות כשמגיעים לרמות תחזוקה קצת יותר גבוהות. כשמדובר ברמות תחזוקה שיידרשו למבנים הללו בעתיד, כמו החלפת מערכות, אין לכך היום מענה בארץ", אומרת המשפטנית ומתכננת ערים פרופ' רחל אלתרמן, שעומדת בראש צוות המחקר.

כחלק מהמחקר נבדקו כמה רבי קומות בארץ. בפרויקט מגדלי תל אביב שבו 2 מבנים בני 34 קומות, עם 230 יחידות דיור, משלמים הדיירים דמי ניהול חודשיים של 1.5 דולרים למ"ר. תחזוקת הבניין, לדברי צוות המחקר, טובה מאוד.

בסי אנד סאן יש 250 דירות. מנכ"ל חברת הניהול של המקום, אילן ביקובסקי, אמר לחוקרים כי החלק השני של הפרויקט נבנה באופן יותר איכותי מהחלק הראשון, עקב הפקת לקחים. הבעיה העיקרית של הפרויקט היא קירבתו לים, שגורמת לבעיות בחזיתות ובחומרי הציפוי ולשחיקה חמורה בכל החומרים. בסי אנד סאן משלמים הדיירים דמי ניהול של 2.5 דולרים למ"ר, עקב הימצאות 2 בריכות שחייה, חדר כושר ושירותים נוספים בפרויקט.

בצמרת רבי הקומות בישראל ניצבים מגדלי צמרת של אלרוב, ברחוב פנקס בתל אביב. הדיירים משלמים שם דמי ניהול של כ-2.7 דולרים למ"ר, ורמת התחזוקה גבוהה. ואולם עורכי המחקר מזכירים, כי גם שם וגם במגדלי תל אביב, טרם הושלמו הפרויקטים, ולחברת הניהול של היזמים יש אינטרס לנהל את המבנים ברמה גבוהה, לפחות עד תום מכירות הדירות.

בפרויקטים שמיועדים לאוכלוסייה ברמה כלכלית גבוהה, יש בעיות שדורשות הקצאת עלויות גבוהה יותר מאשר לפעולות הניקוי הרגילות, והדיירים לא תמיד שבעי רצון מחברות הניהול המטפלות במבנים.

סכנת הידרדרות לסלאמס

ומה המצב בפרויקטים העממיים? לא טוב. מגדל בן 9 קומות באור עקיבא שנבנה לפני 10 שנים; מגדלי המגורים "נאות גולדה" בני 16 קומות בנתניה שהוקמו לפני כ-8 שנים; ומגדלי מגורים בני 14 קומות בראשון לציון מערב שהוקמו לפני 8 שנים נבדקו ונמצאה בהם תחזוקה לקויה ברמות משתנות.

"זה לא מפתיע", אומרת פרופ' אלתרמן, "אם אוכלוסייה במעמד גבוה מתקשה לתחזק מבנים רבי קומות, ולא תמיד מוכנה לשלם דמי ניהול שפרויקטים כאלה צורכים, אין שום פלא שבפרויקט הנתנייתי, האוכלוסייה לא הצליחה לתחזק אותו, וגם בפרויקטים כמו מגדלי הפארק בני ה-8 בראשון לציון מערב, הכניסה מוזנחת. דמי אחזקה נאותים במבנים הללו אינם בהישג יד של כל אחד".

בעקבות המחקר, כינס יו"ר ועדת הכלכלה של הכנסת, ח"כ אילן ליבוביץ (שינוי) ביום שלישי שעבר פורום חשיבה, שיגבש פתרון לבעיית רבי הקומות. הפורום כלל בכירים מבנקים למשכנתאות, אנשי ביטוח שעוסקים במקרקעין ובביטוחי משכנתא, להם אינטרס מובהק שהדירות ישמרו על ערכן. נציגיהם הביעו חשש, שכשרבי קומות יוזנחו, אחד הדברים שיקרה הוא ירידות בשווי הדירות.

ליבוביץ עצמו סיפר שהוא מוטרד מהבעיה. "תחזוקת בתים משותפים, מאז שהוחל בהקמת רבי קומות שמיועדים למעמד הביניים, נהפכה למלכודת", סיפר ליבוביץ. "אני לא מוטרד בנוגע לעתיד של מגדלי צמרת, או בפרויקטים המיועדים למאיון והאלפיון הגבוהים. אבל כשבשכונת הנשיא ברחובות מתוכנן מבנה של 27 קומות שמיועד לזוגות צעירים ולמשפרי דיור אני שואל את עצמי, האם לא מדובר במשהו שייהפך בעוד שנים לסלאמס?"

מנהל מחוז המרכז של האגודה לתרבות הדיור, דורון ישראלי, סיפר שחברות הניהול זוכות לביקורת רבה, בפרויקטים רבים בהם הן פועלות: "אנחנו ישראלים, ואנחנו מכירים את זה היטב. חברות הניהול מחפשות את הרווח ולא את מתן השירות", אמר. אנשי האגודה דיווחו על מקרים רבים שהובאו אליהם בנוגע לחיכוכים בין הדיירים לחברות הניהול.

יש להניח שעם הזמן והתרבות הפרויקטים שמנוהלים על ידי חברות הניהול, במקביל לדרישות והבקרה שמפעילים הדיירים, רמתן של אלה תשתפר. אולם גם אז, במתכונתן הנוכחית, הבעיות העקרוניות לא ייפתרו.

source27
August 26th, 2005, 06:59 PM
I wonder if this is true how so many towers are being built around the world for low and middle income residents?! anyone got ideas?

dov
August 27th, 2005, 01:31 AM
in france,there is no one single residential skyscraper which didn't become a slum.
10 billions dollas have been spent just this year by the government to destroy high rises to replace them by low rise buildings.

Azazel
August 27th, 2005, 12:14 PM
From the looks of it, it seems that the problems aren't something that can't be tackled - and I don't see how would renewal costs be lower for 6-8 storey buildings -it's the same: elevators, water systems, etc.

I think that design of the systems should be highly regulated, to include an easier replacement of the water and elevator systems.

source27
August 27th, 2005, 12:41 PM
azazel - in 6-8 stories you have less expensive fire equipment + 1 elevator instead of 2-3/. Anyways, with the huge building spree in the gulf and here, just imagine what this region will look like in 15 years: crumbling highrise slums..

but on the other hand, in haifa blocks that were built in thr 60's look pretty good and havent turned into slums - on the contrary these blocks have been looked after better than the lowrise rows of 3-4 floor housing ("shikunim") so I dont know where they checked or maybe it is mostly relavent to coastal highrises very close to the sea
but again, I think they over-exagurated the problem on one hand - but it isnt dealt with at all in israel on the other hand..

KettleWhistle
August 27th, 2005, 12:41 PM
Shalom everyone. I found this forum from a link on Israelforum.com

But to get back to the subject, I'd have to say that slums are more of a cultural phenomena than an engineering problem. I came to Israel from L.A. about a month ago, and I really enjoy living in a highrise.

Aside from that, many cities in the U.S. are revitalizing and building up as more and more people move to bigger cities.

source27
August 27th, 2005, 12:45 PM
kettle-whistle, the article was reffering to a unique situation where highrises are targeting middle-income families who in 10-15 years time may move out of them
facing the enormous costs of renovation, there is no public funds today for renovations it is mostly private initiative, but the costs will mean that owners of flats
in highrises may sell them cheap and move out, and then these are destined to become
slum-like.

And I posted the link on Israelforums!
welcome :)

KettleWhistle
August 27th, 2005, 12:58 PM
kettle-whistle, the article was reffering to a unique situation where highrises are targeting middle-income families who in 10-15 years time may move out of them
facing the enormous costs of renovation, there is no public funds today for renovations it is mostly private initiative, but the costs will mean that owners of flats
in highrises may sell them cheap and move out, and then these are destined to become
slum-like.

And I posted the link on Israelforums!
welcome :)
Thanks for posting the link!

I'd say that the solution would be private building funds. If, say, there is a building inspection that suspects that renovation will be needed in 10 years, then the residents should be able to start a saving fund for these projects. Either way, it's good that they are forseeing these problems, since that should make them easier to tackle when the time comes.

But Israel is a small country, and up is the way to go!

source27
August 27th, 2005, 01:27 PM
we all know up is the way to go the question is how much up and for who.
Israel can still afford to build only 10-12 floor towers.
There were ideas in the commitee to make contracters more responsible and
have them allocate funds for renovations, or the residents, but I dont think
it would work - people would be put off buying these apartments from the
start and contracters would be put off building them so you would get
no high density housing... that would also be a disaster.

[MakkabI]
August 27th, 2005, 02:06 PM
KettleWhistle
Welcome to Israel's forum :)

ZOHAR
August 27th, 2005, 03:01 PM
KettleWhistle
welcome to Israeli forum!!

and about this article i live in 8 storey building and we pay 120 NIS i think 900NIS it's not so many ......

ZOHAR
August 27th, 2005, 03:03 PM
and it's so stupid to say "stop build tall buildings" Israel is not Russia,USA,Turkey we are very small country!!

TalB
August 27th, 2005, 05:53 PM
It's not like Israel can have another sprawlsville after latest population increase.

source27
August 27th, 2005, 06:32 PM
its not an automatic question of sprawl vs. tall.
you can build 8-10 stories high and still avoid sprawl,
and you can build a 25-storey tower with semi or detached homes
around it (like they do here to get a mixed neighborhood of middle
and upper class), for example:

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5134/givatshmuel8pc.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Azazel
August 28th, 2005, 12:30 PM
but on the other hand, in haifa blocks that were built in thr 60's look pretty good and havent turned into slums - on the contrary these blocks have been looked after better than the lowrise rows of 3-4 floor housing ("shikunim") so I dont know where they checked or maybe it is mostly relavent to coastal highrises very close to the sea
but again, I think they over-exagurated the problem on one hand - but it isnt dealt with at all in israel on the other hand..

That's the reason why I call bullshit. :) Just look at Neve Sheanan, and the buildings there ( in the Yizraeliya block, and Aba Hillel Silver street). They're pretty old, 25 years old, IIRC. and they are 20 stories high. I don't see them turning into slums. What I do feel is that this something that was cooked up in order to reverse the historic decision not to approve private one/two storey homes in the entire centre any more.

dov
August 28th, 2005, 12:39 PM
One question:most of the cities in france have municpal laws that compel owners of a buildings to renovate or paint it when it is in bad state esteatically speaking (let's say,every 10 or 15 years).Are there the same kind of laws in israel?

source26
August 28th, 2005, 01:11 PM
no there are no such laws in Israel whatsoever,
but some municipalities like Tel Aviv in certain areas
(like the "white city" buildings) acn force people
who want to add floors or make changes to include a renovation of the facade.

KettleWhistle
August 28th, 2005, 01:29 PM
and it's so stupid to say "stop build tall buildings" Israel is not Russia,USA,Turkey we are very small country!!

I don't know about Turkey, but high-rises actually worked out in Russia. In the U.S. tall buildings are becoming more and more appealing because they aren't taxed nearly as heavily as private houses and the maintenance costs are lower.

Now I live on the 18's floor of a 20-storey apartment building, and it's great. I really wouldn't trade it for a house.

P.S. Thanks for the welcomes guys!

P.S.S. Coming from California, I wonder what are the earthquake dangers in Israel. Does anyone have any info about that?

source26
August 28th, 2005, 03:25 PM
I wrote about earthquake warnings for israel on this forum a week ago look for that post!

ZOHAR
August 28th, 2005, 08:32 PM
yes but what do u think about Gush Dan no place in this area......!!!!

Citystyle
August 29th, 2005, 10:43 AM
So not going up means going out. Dumpfuckes seem to run this world over.

theKD80
August 30th, 2005, 07:41 AM
Israel has to build up, and it needs dense housing. Israel does not have a lot of land, and it really needs to preserve what open space it has. I think the problem of slums may be a problem elsewhere, but in Israel where most of the housing seems to be dense and there are a lot of residential highrises this shouldnt be as big of a problem, just look at all the res skyscrapers that are being planned.

source26
August 30th, 2005, 07:57 AM
we dont have a lot of land - true
but all arab villages for example dont build over 3 floors and mostly they live in villas which waste much more land than even Israeli cities, this is the biggest problem.
Every father splits his lots to his children there, so they cant also live on agriculture and so they turn it also into land for building..

Also we designate about 30 and in future 50 percent of israel as open space and nature reserves so that means from the little land we got, subtract another 30-50 percent

dov
August 30th, 2005, 12:29 PM
The high-rise time bomb

By Arik Merovski

The Tel Aviv Towers has changed its management company twice - once because of discontent with the high fees charged by the original company, and once because of dissatisfaction with the quality of the work of two other companies. In the end, Tel Aviv Towers rehired the original company.

Due to proximity to the sea, the balconies in the upscale north Tel Aviv Sea and Sun project began to peel 14 years after residents first moved in. The management company is only now beginning to renovate them. In less prestigious high-rises, residents have been unable to pay for adequate maintenance on their own. Investigators employed to examine the issue say that "High-rises are a ticking bomb waiting to blow up in our faces."



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Research commissioned by the Ministry of the Interior and conducted by the Center for Urban and Regional Studies of the Technion-Israel Institute of Technology concludes that $1.20 per square meter per month is required to finance reasonable maintenance of high-rise buildings of 10 or more floors. In other words, owners of apartments of 100 square meter must shell out NIS 540 in monthly management fees. How many owners can afford this? Those who decide to live in a project with a fitness center, security system and swimming pool would have to pay $2 per meter per month - NIS 900 for a 100 meter apartment.

This problems are not unique to high-rises. Better Homes Association director Reuven Tzadok says that residents of projects in Be'er Sheva and Ashdod, not targeted toward a wealthy population, were attracted by lovely pictures in real estate brochures and purchased their homes without asking about the price of that very pool, fitness center and security guard refered to above.

But the biggest problems will be faced by residents of high-rises. Elevators, water, fire extinguishing systems and other features sustain wear and tear, and must be replaced or completely renovated every 15 years on average. Technicians say that this repair and replacement will cost millions of dollars per high-rise building - about 20 percent of the value of every apartment. There is currently little thought being devoted to the need to renovate new buildings 15 years from now, and our experience teaches that most of them will deteriorate. The market price of these buildings will plummet and they will become a hazard to their owners and the environment.

"Even in coop apartment buildings of three-four floors, resident committees have difficulty addressing problems like tarring the roof or repairing sewage pipes. Management companies, which replace resident committees in larger, more complex building projects, are supposed to be more professional. But we find that they also appear to have problems handling slightly more complex levels of maintenance. When we consider the levels of maintenance these buildings will require in the future, like replacing entire systems, we find that there is no answer [to the problem] in Israel," says attorney and Technion professor of urban planning Rahel Alterman, who led the research.

Several high-rises were examined in the study. Residents of the Tel Aviv Towers, two 34-story buildings with a total of 230 units, pay management fees of $1.50 per meter per month. Researchers say the buildings are very well maintained.

The Elrov Tzameret Towers on Pinkas Street in Tel Aviv is one of the most exclusive high-rise projects in Israel. Residents pay $2.70 per meter per month in maintenance fees, and the maintenance is at a high level. But researchers say that construction of the Tzameret Towers and the Tel Aviv Towers is still not complete, and that the developers' management companies have an interest in maintaining the buildings at a high level until the apartments are sold.

Potential slums

What is the situation in more modest projects? Not good. A nine-floor high-rise in Or Akiva, built 10 years ago; the 16-floor Naot Golda project in Netanya, built eight years ago; and a 14-floor building in western Rishon Letzion were all found to have deficient maintenance.

"This is no surprise," says Prof. Alterman. "If the upper class population has difficulty supporting high-rises, and is not always prepared to pay the necessary fees to maintain a project, it is no wonder that residents of an intermediate project do not adequately support its maintenance. Even projects like the eight-year old Park Towers in Rishon Letzion have shabby entrances. The funds required to maintain such building are not available to everyone."

In response to the study, MK Ilan Leibowitz (Shinui), chairman of the Knesset Economics Committee, recently convened a conference to address the high-rise issue. The forum included senior representatives of mortgage banks, and insurance officials, who insure real estate and mortgages. The latter have a vested interest in ensuring that these buildings maintain their value. Their representatives expressed fears that the selling price of high-rise apartments would decline in response as a result of neglect.

Not worried about the rich

Leibowitz also expressed concern. "The maintenance of cooperative apartment buildings has been a trap since the advent of high-rise buildings constructed for the middle class," Leibowitz says. "I am not concerned for the future of the Tzameret Towers, or for projects built for the upper percentile or the top thousandth. But when they plan a 27-floor building in the Hanassi neighborhood of Rehovot for young couples or families who want to improve their lot, I ask myself if this won't turn into a slum a few years from now."

Better Homes Association central region director Doron Yisraeli says that management companies are frequent targets of criticism in many projects. "We Israelis know how this works all too well. Management companies are interested in turning a profit - not in providing service," he says. Association staff cite many examples of conflicts between residents and management companies.

Technion researchers divided the maintenance required in buildings into four levels: The first level includes the most elementary services required to clean the building and maintain the grounds. The second level includes periodic renovation and repairs like tarring the roof.

The third level includes comprehensive repairs and replacement of systems required to return a building to its original state - for example, replacement of elevators and comprehensive renovation of exterior surfaces. The fourth level entails advances and improvements, beyond the original state of the building, to ensure that the building maintains a level quality similar to that of new buildings of its type.

Economist Dani Ben Shahar calculated the high cost of maintaining such buildings in the future. He predicts that problems, which begin at the third level of maintenance, will cost residents millions of dollars, or 20-25 percent of the value of their apartments. "Apartment owners will obviously not be able to cope with these payments, if they are collected only when the need for repairs arises," Ben Shahar says.

Don't build them

The researchers examined how similar problems are handled abroad. They found that Europe, Hong Kong and the United States concluded years ago that it is not wise to build projects which have too many floors, except in cases where the buildings attract wealthy residents. "Their experience teaches that high-rises of 20, 30 or 40 floors, built 30-40 years ago for young couples, deteriorated and now require a fortune to renovate. When we asked professionals abroad what they advise we do to maintain these buildings in Israel, they answered simply, `Don't build them!'"

Their advice came too late. There are dozens of buildings of 20 or more floors in the pipeline. Some have been approved, and more are awaiting approval.

What should be done? The participants in the conference agreed that funding must be established during the marketing phase of building projects to assure high-level maintenance in the future, including money to support long-range repair and improvements. It is not reasonable to expect residents to shoulder the burden of such costs alone, as this would make it impossible for them to purchase the apartments.

Some participants said that contractors should "accompany" these projects after construction is complete by contributing to these funds from their profits. "If this acts as a disincentive to contractors and prevents them from building high-rises - that's a good thing," they said at the conference.

Azazel
August 30th, 2005, 12:52 PM
Due to proximity to the sea, the balconies in the upscale north Tel Aviv Sea and Sun project began to peel 14 years after residents first moved in. The management company is only now beginning to renovate them. In less prestigious high-rises, residents have been unable to pay for adequate maintenance on their own. Investigators employed to examine the issue say that "High-rises are a ticking bomb waiting to blow up in our faces."


Sea and Sun is a private example, and personally, deserves every bad thing that happens to it, since it's in breach of construction codes.

source26
August 30th, 2005, 01:07 PM
I hope all the rich towers of the sea-front rot so fast that they stop building them, they have enough money to repair them every year anyhow!