cont'd from http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=5206226#post5206226

Swell, back to it.

damnn....

Well we're Movin' on Up!
Movin' on Up!
To the east side!
Movin' on Up!
To a dee-luxe apartment in the sky, We're movin' on up!
Movin' on Up!
To the east side!
Movin' on Up!
We've finally got a piece of the pie!

wow...thanks for that. we needed it. weezy would be proud.

so.....about those new buildings. i don't know, but i feel an update coming on. i'll dole out the assignments and we'll hopefully compile something wonderful by the end of the week. we'll need some construction photos of the national at old city. comcast center photos aren't really necessary at this time, not much has happened. i'm going to need someone to brave columbus blvd and get waterfront square. the new apartments at 34th and chestnut is unseeable right now, but someone could take a picture of the walled of street if they feel compelled. someone get the penn dorm towers. get some avenue north shots and that of the new philadelphia school district administration building (both on broad street). and if symphony house is doing anything remotely intereing at this time, let us know. and also, 23 condominiums and there's a loft right next to the train tracks (u guys might know what i'm talking about). all right, take ur assignments and get crackin'

do you all hate me?

Lol no one hates you. Its just that theres really nothing that exciting going on right now so people dont feel the need to post in here.

I agree w/ Sweetkisses----it's been quiet out there.

OK, here's one to get you excited:

801 Chestnut, 41 stories

801 Chestnut Street is a new, mixed-use high-rise development in the heart of downtown Philadelphia. Located in Center City, this 41-story tower will offer 300 new high-tech, luxury apartments with the desirable Washington Square location and views. Situated on a one-acre site, 801 Chestnut is the second development in the Philadelphia area for Clark Realty Capital, L.L.C. Amenities include a pool, a fully equipped fitness center, and a lounge on the seventh floor. Apartments feature 9-foot ceilings, floor-to-ceiling windows, and private terraces. The community is within walking distance of Independence Mall, City Hall, and a plethora of restaurants, theaters, and other entertainment options.

Address: 801 Chestnut Street
Developer: Clark Realty (of St James fame)
Architect: Brennan Beer Gorman
Completion: Sep 2009

http://www.clarkrealty.com/images/photos/projects/1321-Chestnut.jpg

Plus one I got of Cira Centre Monday afternoon:

http://www.pbase.com/image/48763350.jpg

Wow that residential tower looks great! How tall is it?

I just dont think 801 Chestnut gonna happen.... It's suppose to be part of that 8th & Market complex which included a Target. We havent heard anything in a yr from those developers...

i agree, i do like the design of that building. and what was this 8th and market complex you speak of? that is news to me.

Well I sure as hell hope that gets built. It will help build up a Center City skyscraper core so well.... Cross your fingers!!!

i agree, i do like the design of that building. and what was this 8th and market complex you speak of? that is news to me.

here is an article from last yr in the Philadelphia Business Journal about the complex i was talking about...

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/stories/2004/12/13/daily16.html?t=printable

Does anyone have any new info on Mandeville Place ? what are the chances of seeing that building actually go up. it is awesome looking and is easily (or would be easily) the cities best looking skyscraper.

^ Well in the Philadelphia magazine, it said it was scheduled to break ground in early 2006. So cross your fingers and hope it gets approved!

Philly named 'Next Great City'

Wednesday, September 28, 2005; Posted: 11:16 a.m. EDT (15:16 GMT)


An car drives along Chestnut Street past Independence Hall in Philadelphia.
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Philadelphia (Pennsylvania)
Arts, Culture and Entertainment
Libraries and Museums
or Create Your Own
Manage Alerts | What Is This? PHILADELPHIA, Pennsylvania (AP) -- Ask any Philadelphian what the city is known for and the response might be cheesesteak or that scene in "Rocky" when Sylvester Stallone runs up the art museum steps.

But the October issue of National Geographic Traveler says there are lots of other good things to eat in Philly -- and you should actually go inside the museum after goofing off outside.

The magazine delves beneath pop culture to reveal the historical, artistic and gastronomic layers of Philadelphia, a place it has christened America's "Next Great City."

"This is a city that has been greatly overlooked," said Keith Bellows, the magazine's editor-in-chief. "It's the last great opportunity for anyone who wants a terrific urban life in the Northeast."

Impressed by Philadelphia in recent visits, he had to convince his staff that the City of Brotherly Love would be the next hip metro area. "They kind of all looked at me like I had lost my marbles," Bellows said.

But he dispatched his contributing editor, Andrew Nelson, to find out for himself.

What the author said he discovered was a Philadelphia that's no longer the city of "gritty urban decay" portrayed in the Rocky Balboa saga, nor "D.C. on a bad hair day." Long in the shadow of New York City and the nation's capital, Philadelphia now can flick that supposed chip from its shoulder and stand tall on its own merits.

It's been a long time coming. While the city has plenty of history -- it's where the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were drafted, and it's home to the Liberty Bell -- urban decay had crept in as people fled to the suburbs in the 1970s.

That has turned around in a big way.

There's a condominium building boom downtown, where the number of restaurants -- highlighted by ventures from well-known restaurateurs Georges Perrier and Stephen Starr -- has tripled since 1992. And the magazine called the Old City area, with its vibrant arts and nightlife scene, the liveliest urban neighborhood between SoHo in New York and SoBe in Miami.

A walkable city that bridges the old and new, Philadelphia boasts stately 19th-century neighborhoods, the Champs Elysees-inspired Benjamin Franklin Parkway and, soon, wireless Internet access throughout its 135 square miles.

Such revitalization efforts, together with a marketing campaign and high-profile events such as the Live 8 concert, have put Philly back on the map, city officials said.

Since 2000, the number of visitors to the city has grown by 21 percent to 25.5 million, said Meryl Levitz, president and chief executive of the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corp.

But Bellows said the city's self-image still needs a little work: "Philly has a little bit of an underdog sense of itself and it doesn't even realize how great it is."


:) I thought you guys might find this interesting. Good news for Philly.

^Sorry, I forgot to cut out those ads. The article was on cnn.com

yeh, i heard about that article. its exciting for the city. and the murano has a real website about itself themuranocondominum.com. and i went to the navy shipyard (for the job), and if revitalization takes place there like is planned, it would be great. beautiful old buildings and new developments and parkspace. it could be a real destination thats for sure, and the proposed extension of the broad street subway would be a friggin windfall to that area. the weather was great today, i'm in a fantastic mood. talk to you fellow skyscrapercitzens later.

I hope all this acclaim bring more jobs! If we get that, watchout rest of the world!!!!

Concrete is being poured into the Comcast site tonight everyone.

any recent renderings of the Comcast Centre? And, why 975 ft.? Just add, at least, another 25 ft. and there you go! 1,000 ft. ! :)

Very interesting. Comcast in Philly and Trump in Chicago are both having their cement trucks lining the streets today and tomorrow.

^ Cool!!!

the tivoli, in the art museum area, has a facade that looks much more substantial than the renderings made it look like. it looks darker, richer, and makes it look established, as if it were there longer than it has. the tower is high at this point, i couldn't tell if it was trying to go any higher. and drexel university is building a high rise dorm on 33rd and race? if any body can find any possible news on that, posting it would be an obligation on ur part. haha. alright, thats my news.

No new renderings, StevenW. What we've seen is what we're getting.

A few images I got of the core:

This is from last Saturday:

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/50094340.jpg

This is from this afternoon, one week later:

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/50094338.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/50094339.jpg

Man, all this tlak of "concrete" and "pouring" is getting me re-excited about this project... :)

I thought this was an interesting take on the Philly skyline at dusk by Howard Watson... imagine CC filling it up!
http://www.wesellfineart.com/art_by_artists/hwatson/images/PhiladelphiaSkylineDusk.jpg

^ Thats a nice pic. Comcast will look amazzzing in that spot!

They replaced 2LP with some odd looking tower and apparently they moved the Citigroup Center from East 53rd Street to Walnut Street;) but otherwise that's a neat one.

nice shots, volguus zildrohar. :)

LOL... that skyline painting has always confused me so much for the exact reasons Volguus stated.

how do you post pictures? i found the new drexel dorm, and its on intechconstruction.com, but cannot for life of me find out how. i'm not dumb i swear

To post a photo, you must type this code:

[ img ] ADDRESS OF IMAGES GOES HERE.jpg [ /img ]

Without the spaces in the brakcets, though. SSC's coding is all effed up.

how do you post pictures? i found the new drexel dorm, and its on intechconstruction.com, but cannot for life of me find out how. i'm not dumb i swear

Image as requested
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/drexelsite1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/drexel.jpg

pretty damn ugly if u ask me... lol

thanks builder. i'm almost upset that you put it up, but i know you did it for the good of the thread. but u think its ugly? perhaps i'm biased being a drexelite and all (altho i don't feel like it could cloud my judgement that much), but i think it has its strong points. it is reminiscent of cira centre in the aspect of it being this modern building located next to conversteed rowhouse mansions all around. this are looking up for this once neglected neighborhood that bordered penn but was never as good. now all drexel's campus needs now is WAWA. o wawa how we love ur deli sandwiches on drunken nights....

^^I like it!

[QUOTE=dieselpolo now all drexel's campus needs now is WAWA. o wawa how we love ur deli sandwiches on drunken nights....[/QUOTE]

Taco Lou's was the best on those drunken drexel nights for me!!! Is it still around?

taco lou's is still there and he's still just as popular with long lines. to be fair, we trade off with buying corporate (wawa) and small business (lou's) drunk munchies.

lol maybe it just doesn't "render" well...will have to see it in it's setting once it's built ;-)

Concrete is being poured into the Comcast site tonight everyone.

Glad to hear it. It's great that a project like this is a definite go. The Cira Center looks real nice and very distinctive. Kind of reminds me of the Hancock Tower in Boston, except more wedge-shaped (a good thing). It's good to know that Philly will be getting some more skyscrapers and adding to its already great skyline.

Now if only it could get more subway and light rail lines :lol:

any recent renderings of the Comcast Centre? And, why 975 ft.? Just add, at least, another 25 ft. and there you go! 1,000 ft. ! :)

A spire would definitely put Comcast over 1000 feet, but it doesn't have to have one. It's still a really tall building that will alter the Philly skyline in a big way (just as One and Two Liberty Place did in the 80's).

Glad to hear it. It's great that a project like this is a definite go. The Cira Center looks real nice and very distinctive. Kind of reminds me of the Hancock Tower in Boston, except more wedge-shaped (a good thing). It's good to know that Philly will be getting some more skyscrapers and adding to its already great skyline.

Now if only it could get more subway and light rail lines :lol:
Agreed about the subway. SEPTA sucks. To be the second largest city on the east coast, we can do MUCH better.

when are they supposed to start construction on the residences at the ritz carlton
?

Residences At The Ritz is supposed to start next month according to the condo boom article in Philadelphia Magazine.

^^^ If that's true, then finally we'll have a building next to the Meridian Plaza to fill in that gap. It might not be as tall as City Hall, but at least it will look good!!!

Whats everyone think of the DOMUS project going up on 34th & Chestnut? I'm happy that they are pumping all this investment (7 million to be exact) into University City but I think they would have been better off w/ a 30 story highrise....

by the way here is a link for more info on the DOMUS project:
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=3535907

Luxury Living Complex Breaks Ground in University City

October 14, 2005 -

It's billed as a 7-million dollar project unlike anything ever before in the city of Philadelphia. We're talking five-star luxury living and a retail complex on the order of a boutique hotel!
The groundbreaking project is at 34th and Chestnut in University City. Currently the land was kind of an eye sore and made for no man's land. That's all changing. Someone is pumping in $7 million to build luxury apartments and they are betting that some well off renters will want to live here. The ground breaking was largely a formality. Workers are already at work at the complex, a joint venture of ten.

The project will restore neighborhood vitality to a part of West Philadelphia. The site has the vitality and the built in energy and momentum to make it successful.

It is called Domas. It promises 290 high-end rental apartments. It will cost $1,500 to $3,000 a month to be near an ivy league university.

"People want to live where they work. It's a pedestrian friendly project that we're working with and we're proud to be here today. "
The plan is to have the building up and operating in about two years.

Domus will be a tremendous asset to University City. But it's a $70 million dollar project not $7 M.

How will this project do with rents at $1500-3000 per month? 300 units. I think you'll see alot of Penn students and UPHS workers move in. I don't think they will have the same problem with slow vacancy that the St.James tower has had. The location is ideal. You can get 4 penn students pitch in $500 bucks each for a glitzy new 2 bedroom apt., no sweat for mom and dad. Thats a big step up from a 150 year old dorm room at the same price.

University City is really taking off. Penn also announced a new $232 M medical center will break ground next week on the site of the old civic center. There is currently a couple of 9 story mixed use buildings being done on 40th + Chestnut. Along with a half dozen additional buildings going up associated with Univ. of Penn

Moth thanks for the correction. More news on the way, check out the new mixed use office building they are planning for 5th & Walnut. For more info check out the website: http://www.cbaarch.com/

http://www.cbaarch.com/5thWalnutSketch.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/JohnStreetSucksBig2/5thWalnutELEV.jpg

University City is really taking off. Penn also announced a new $232 M medical center will break ground next week on the site of the old civic center.

Here is the rendering:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/about_uphs/images/CAMexterior_450px.gif

This project broke ground this past week, its called 1352 Lofts. Its near the corner of South & Broad St and will be 5 storeys tall with ground retail. IMO this sucker should have been taller.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4872/1431/1600/Picture%20012.jpg

Found this on the net, liked it a lot,maybe the last winter we'll have view of the skyline before Comcast Center rises up...

http://www.wesellfineart.com/art_by_artists/ressler/images/WinterSkyline.jpg

Since i'm going crazy with visuals & no one has posted a pic of the skyline in ages on this website, here u go:
http://www.film.org/images/locations/IMG0002.jpg

Alright, one of mine.

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/26541022.jpg

:)

Great pics. just tryin to visualize comcast center in each photo. Cant wait for some steel to rise !!

The beginning of the core are starting to rise now.

Photo taken 10/15/05 by nimrod at SkyscraperPage:

http://www.pbase.com/nimrod0472/image/50776773.jpg

And from Kelvin, a building engineer by trade, at SSP:

Backfilling is almost complete and wall and column construction is in progress as well. Prior to the next pour, all of the exposed rebar "cages" will be enclosed by the steel panel formwork. Expect concrete within a week's time.

Nice. Its good to see more progress.

I can only pray, at least, that the contractors take the Comcast Center to 1000+ feet, no spire, just a couple floors!!!

it will take more than prayer. although, if i prayed to anything, i would pray with you on this one. Comcast Center needs to be 1000+ feet.I would add one more slight setback about 50 feet in height or so. This would take CC higher than the US Bank Tower/LA and BofA in Atlanta; although, 975 feet is going to be unbelievably tall when complete. Liberty One is only 845-850 feet to it's roof. only a razor-thin spire gets it to 945.The spire is all but invisible once you get about 7-10 miles away, depending on visibility. this building is a full 125 feet taller all the way to the roofline :)

Then you'd have to pray that the base of the tower core is being built stronger than the plans call for.

i dont realistically expect to see more height than advertised. True, to add that amount of height, you would need a stronger base than current plans. im just saying it would be nice. but than again, i have a feeling if the tower was 1025 feet, i would want 1050, and so on and so on.

i have no doubt that i will very pleased with the final result as will the rest of philadelphia

Now if only some steel would start rising....... yeah, i know, patience.

i don't like the new penn medical center. to me it looks so suburban-office-parkish. albeit a better looking one than most but nontheless. i expected more from penn and making most of their buildings "urban streetscape" friendly. that whole corrider around the hospital is not very walkable at the moment but i thought with the demolishing of the civic center that they would put something else up. in its defense, i've only seen the 2 renderings so the depth, materials, the way it fits in with the existing environment might win me over.

According to Igna's blog, we're gonna have a duplicate Dockside. That's hurt. :bash:

But on the positive side Opus (37 storeys tall) gained zoning approval today. The outline of Opus is next to IBX on my next post below.

Coutersy of Swinefeld on the other forum.... this is originally from Philadelphia Magazine (October issue). :eek2:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2333/philly20168lf.jpg

Coming into the city from the east side I-676
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/city1.jpg
Random shot in the city
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/philly2.jpg
A nice shot I took with a nasty digital zoom, but u can really see the skyline with the cira to the left
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/Philly3b.gif

I like the last picture

I'm curious where did you take the last pic from? It looks like somewhere in South Philly to me...

BTW, I recently did some internet research on Philadelphia Culture and found some statistics that might interest or surprize you:

Museums:
- the Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts is the oldest art museum in the country, founded in 1805 by Charles Willson Peale, a painter himself who fathered distinguished artists, such as Rembrandt, Raphaelle, Sarah and Anna Peale

-Philadelphia was home to Thomas Eakins, whose penetrating portraits of 19th-century Philadelphians make him arguably the greatest American painter. And this area has nurtured several "schools" of art, from the Pennsylvania Impressionists to the Ashcan school, led by Pennsylvania Academy teacher Robert Henri

Dance:
-50 professional dance companies including the world renowed Philadanco a world renowed modern dance company.
http://www.gophila.com/culturefiles...danco/index.htm
- world-class ballet troupe - PA Ballet - http://www.gophila.com/culturefiles...allet/index.htm

3. Public Art
Philadelphia has more public art than any other American city, according to a recent survey of outdoor sculpture sponsored by the Smithsonian Institution.
-250 scluptures by Alexander Milne Calder
http://www.gophila.com/culturefiles/intros/publicart/

4. Historical Attractions:
The list of historic attractions in Philadelphia and its countryside spans the centuries and covers every theme in American history. Not even gonna list them too many

5. Theatre
- In the last quarter century, Philadelphia has witnessed a huge growth of professional theater activity, and more than 125 productions now originate in Philadelphia in a season. The Walnut Street Theatre, originally built as a circus in the early 19th century, is the oldest continuously producing theater building in the United States, where many luminaries of both the 19th and 20th century performed
http://www.gophila.com/culturefiles...aters/index.htm


6. Philly's Fairmount Park is the world's largest city park system.
http://www.gophila.com/culturefiles...mount/index.htm

-Not to mention the diverse archeticture, numerous art schools & possibly a R&B Hall of Fame in the future
:eek2:

I'm curious where did you take the last pic from? It looks like somewhere in South Philly to me...

Ur right, I took that shot just after the linc on 95

Ive been watching this forum for months and finally decided to join. I lived in Philly from 2000 until May of this year. Im originally from Charlotte. Initially I was excited about moving back south. Charlotte has changed alot indeed, but Ive recently come to realize I ACTUALLY MISS PHILADELPHIA. Can you imagine?
Having said that, Im in the process of making plans to move back to Philly. I need some input though. I plan on going to college once I move back. IN the interim, where would be a good place to seek solid employment? I lived in Southwest Philly before in the Eastwick area. This time I want to be either in CC or at least closer to CC. Any ideas on areas with rents say no more than 600-700$ per month. Space isnt really an issue. I can manage with as little as 500sq feet. Im not bringing my car(this time), so thank god for the good pt in philly.
Any help from you guys is greatly appreciated.
btw- sorry if i have posted this reply in an inappropriate thread.

hey, with that kind of rent, you could get great deals in the university city area. and i'm sure in center city past south street you could find stuff too. and look around the art museum area. obviously you shouldn't be looking at places with full page color ads in the real estate section, but there are some great quiet deals happening. good luck man

hey, with that kind of rent, you could get great deals in the university city area. and i'm sure in center city past south street you could find stuff too. and look around the art museum area. obviously you shouldn't be looking at places with full page color ads in the real estate section, but there are some great quiet deals happening. good luck man

i totally forgot about University area. I love that area. Thanks for the reminder

University City ROCKS!

I dunno what part of U.C. U've been to but the part I saw was as trashy as S. Philly. Guess it all depends what matters to u

ok, i lied before. i like W hotels. philly should get one. its not dire, but it'd be cool

I dunno what part of U.C. U've been to but the part I saw was as trashy as S. Philly. Guess it all depends what matters to u


Are you out of your mind?

90% of University City is world class. Maybe 10% of University City would be considered run down(Mantua) Which leads to the question what the hell were you doing in a remote drug trafficking area anyway?

I'm from Baltimore and always liked Philly. Baltimore reminds me of a small Philly.

Baltimore is also booming with approx 4,000 upsale new condo's/townhouses under construction and 2,000 new hotel rooms(including Four Seasons, Hilton Convention Hotel, and Ritz Carlton Condo's). Love to make it up to Philly in the next year.

Buider have you checked page 3 of this thread? University City is booming, in one week, $300 million have been invested in just two projects.

Yea, UC is really booming. I dont know where youve been Builder.

Yeah seriously, not only did I spend the first couple years of my lfie in the University City District (in Wlanut Hill, one of the nicest neighborhoods in West Philly), but UC is beautiful, booming, and has its own distinct characeter. Even Mantua isn't so decayed and is rather nice atleast in apprearance. But anyway... I love South Philly too, so maybe it is all about what matters to me.

Can you imagine if Penn gets its way w/ the Postal Office and the surrounding land? They've already purchased the land, its so riped for growth. If i was a realtor I would invest in Univeristy City before any other area of Philly bc theres gonna be explosive growth 5-10 yrs from now.

Maybe I should invest in a good strip joint?

Maybe..... :cool:

I don't know if any of your are famaliar w/ the Marina View Towers, but according to the billboard on 95 south (around cottman) 65% of the units are sold!!! So this proposal looks like a go!!!

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6222/marina69qz.png

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/852/marina45vk.jpg

Great! Now if only mandeville, murano and all of those other various projects can do the same.

^patience my dear..... Supposedly Murano is to break ground next month. I don't know what the chances are of it actually happening.

I've started a thread for Comcast Centre in the international Construction Updates section. I was going to wait till it started rising but I just couldn't help myself :) It's going to be a great tower, a worthy successor to One Liberty Place.

The thread is located here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=272692).

great photo that shows u where the comcast tower will be
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/comcast_uc022.jpg
Photo found @ http://phillyskyline.com/

If anyone is dwn by the cira tonight, it's lit up blue ! I'll see if I can get a shot tonight

I already did.

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297043.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297045.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297048.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297049.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297050.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297051.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297044.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297046.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297047.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297054.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297053.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51297052.jpg

Good work on the shots!

Another masterpiece by the one & only VZ! I think Cira Center is the architecurally most beautiful skyscraper in Philly.

Schweeet...

wow, u took a lot.

So whats going on with Marina view? what going on with the waterfront?Im getting impatient. I want to see progess.:?

More of Cira Centre from tonight (10/27).

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379789.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379793.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379797.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379796.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379805.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379803.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379800.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379807.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/phillytrax/image/51379790.jpg

My guess is Marina View won't break ground until next yr. Can't wait to see what other patterns & symbols Cira can draw up.

Hmmm, so it looks like that "condo boom" was all talk. I mean seriously, the best designed condo(mandeville), most likely isnt going to happen. I was on skyscraperpage, and they said 10 rittenhouse is dead, 1706 is dead, nothing on mandeville, murano (only 15% sold)... I knew it was too good to be true.

Someone from another forum did a rendering of the comcast tower from camden, hot! :eek2:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/attachment5ua.jpg

That was SJ's from SSP using a Sasso image.

Sweetkisses, 10 Rittenhouse is not dead. The person who said that was using it in context with another lower-profile project that got NIMBY-ized.

There are a lot of projects going on right now but many of the high profile proposals just seem to be sitting there for various reasons. If they happen, they happen. If they don't, it was a fun ride.

Comcast Center looks massive in that rendering, it really is a lot taller than Liberty I.

It will rise to 975 feet, 30 feet taller than the spire of Liberty One. However without the spire, liberty place is around 840 feet high. That's a nice big gap.

^ Thats like an 130 ft difference. Woooow.

I returned today from a visit to Philadelphia, and let me say, I was extremely impressed. I had not been to Philly since I was a teenager, and so I had no idea how vibrant the city was, or has become. I was taken by: the quantity and variety of life around Rittenhouse Square Park, the gorgeous townhomes of the area around Drexel and U Penn and of course Society Hill,the quantity of mass transit seemingly available in the central area, and the overall high quality of skyscrapers, both old and new.

,the quantity of mass transit seemingly available in the central area...

Seemingly being the operative word here.

I returned today from a visit to Philadelphia, and let me say, I was extremely impressed. I had not been to Philly since I was a teenager, and so I had no idea how vibrant the city was, or has become. I was taken by: the quantity and variety of life around Rittenhouse Square Park, the gorgeous townhomes of the area around Drexel and U Penn and of course Society Hill,the quantity of mass transit seemingly available in the central area, and the overall high quality of skyscrapers, both old and new.
I'm glad you liked it. Not to many people say that about this fair town.:)

I'm glad you liked it. Not to many people say that about this fair town.:)

Oh, I love Philly too. It's like a home-away-from-home for me. I've probably spent more time in Philly than in any other top-tier city.

^ Thats cool.Come up soon!

^ Thanks, Sweet. It's been too long.

I think both you guys are coming at the right time to Philly, a lot of transformations taking place w/ a renewed vigor that hasn't hit this city since the 50's. I feel that vibe when I go to Center City like I used to when i lived in NYC. I lived in Center City from 98-00, & there was a livliness to it, but no where like what it is now. From the "Bridge" in University City to WFS along Del Ave to St. James along Washington Sq, the city is expanding at an alarming rate w/ new amenties & living arrangements in just the past 2 yrs. Anyways, glad u guys enjoyed & hopefully you come back soon.

^ I didn't ride mass transit so I didn't really get a good feel for it. Hell, in this country the mere EXISTENCE of a subway, tram lines, etc. is impressive to an urbanist. I loved the tramways (or whatever they are called locally).. they seemed very European. I like how they enhance the streetscape by blending in with it, rather than being set apart. I wish Chicago had some of those.

I also LOVED the narrowness of the streets, despite feeling a bit cramped when a bus was in the other lane. Narrow streets mean the average view takes in less asphalt and more gorgeous facades. Cities built later are too car accomodating (or buggy-accomodating I suppose, at the time). I wish Chicago's streets were narrow like Philly's.

Philly isn't recognized enough for its virtues in my opinion.

^ I didn't ride mass transit so I didn't really get a good feel for it. Hell, in this country the mere EXISTENCE of a subway, tram lines, etc. is impressive to an urbanist. I loved the tramways (or whatever they are called locally).. they seemed very European. I like how they enhance the streetscape by blending in with it, rather than being set apart. I wish Chicago had some of those.

I also LOVED the narrowness of the streets, despite feeling a bit cramped when a bus was in the other lane. Narrow streets mean the average view takes in less asphalt and more gorgeous facades. Cities built later are too car accomodating (or buggy-accomodating I suppose, at the time). I wish Chicago's streets were narrow like Philly's.

Philly isn't recognized enough for its virtues in my opinion.
Get the word out there.:) ;)
But seriously, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself.

IMO NYC has the best transit system in the US. Wish Septa would follow some of their ideology & procedures.

Thanx for the compliments ChicagoLover, I also have a lot of luv for Chitown. Chicago has the best enviormental surroundings in terms of topographical geography. Where else in continental North America do you have a large body of water, a beach THEN & huge skyline & skyscrapers all packed together so closely? South beach doesnt cut it for me....

The Cira Center is one slick building. I hope they light that up blue every night.

The default color for the LED's will be white, same as the other buildings in Center City but, as we've seen, the lights will change for special occassions and holidays.

*PHILADELPHIA* is extremely underrated!!! Lotta people talk about Philly being too close to NYC...fuck that!!! People seem to not realize that Philly is a very large city...feels much larger than 1.5 million people and I swear people will be really impressed by the skyline once they first see it and the vibrancy.

At least NY has a good transit system.

*PHILADELPHIA* is extremely underrated!!! Lotta people talk about Philly being too close to NYC...fuck that!!! People seem to not realize that Philly is a very large city...feels much larger than 1.5 million people and I swear people will be really impressed by the skyline once they first see it and the vibrancy.

It's a metro of 6 million, 4th largest TV market, 2nd largest city on the East coast... Philly is no small potatoes... IMO once Comcast Center goes up, I think we have the 3rd best skyline in the US behind Chi & NYC... I base that on the blend of old & new architecture, good density, & good spatial arrangement (unlike ATL, Miami).

i wonder what the mentality of my fellow skyscrapercity people are feeling. after hearing that several of the condo towers planned might not even get built (especially a favorite of mine: the murano) and on top of that, the septa strike creating havoc with our mass transit system (and seriously threatening my hope that philly would make two more subway routes to allow for what i like to call "crazy growth" to the philadelphia area). it sucks, but i think its a blemish that we almost had to get (septa strike) to REALLY get people, especially the people who could fix it, to realize that having philly's mass transit system is a commodity that we cannot afford (literally, the strike is costing the city revenue) to lose. and we can FORGET about an olympic bid until this stuff gets cleared up. and with the condos....you can't build million dollar digs if there aren't enough millionaires willing to buy them (altho there are plenty around here). it just takes time. alright...............discuss

o, and H&M is expanding the first store and building another in center city. and i love philadelphia.

Well, I'm glad to see there are still things goin on in Philly. I will be movin there in about 5 months. :) Needless to say...I'm excited.

i wonder what the mentality of my fellow skyscrapercity people are feeling. after hearing that several of the condo towers planned might not even get built (especially a favorite of mine: the murano) and on top of that, the septa strike creating havoc with our mass transit system (and seriously threatening my hope that philly would make two more subway routes to allow for what i like to call "crazy growth" to the philadelphia area). it sucks, but i think its a blemish that we almost had to get (septa strike) to REALLY get people, especially the people who could fix it, to realize that having philly's mass transit system is a commodity that we cannot afford (literally, the strike is costing the city revenue) to lose. and we can FORGET about an olympic bid until this stuff gets cleared up. and with the condos....you can't build million dollar digs if there aren't enough millionaires willing to buy them (altho there are plenty around here). it just takes time. alright...............discuss
This is what I said earlier in this thread. THe condo boom is all talk. There are plenty more conversions than there are high rise condos in the works right now. Oh well...

Well, I'm glad to see there are still things goin on in Philly. I will be movin there in about 5 months. :) Needless to say...I'm excited.
5 months?! wow thats no time :)

Of course there will be more conversions than condo construction bc its cheaper!

I was walkin thru U.C. and was pleasantly surprised to see an awesome view of Cira @ 34 & Walnut. my camera is in a thousand little pieces in Silver Spring train station in D.C. volguus zildrohar cud u take this one, if u havent already>?

Already got some from Hill Square.

These are from back in June:

http://www.pbase.com/image/52044905.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/52045005.jpg

So, I was curious and wondering if someone can update me on these projects: (I can't post pictures...I forgot how...haven't been back to this site in awhile)

CORPORATE

Liberties Walk (under construction)

The Navy Yard (under construction)

Two Pennsylvania Plaza (proposed)

Convention Center Expansion (delayed)


RESIDENTIAL

Symphony House (under construction)

Waterfront Square (under construction)

Mandeville Place (proposed)

10 Rittenhouse Square (proposed)

The Murano (proposed)

Residences at the Ritz (proposed)

1300 Buttonwood (proposed)

1601 Vine Street (proposed)

1919 Market (proposed)

1441 Chestnut (delayed)


CULTURAL

Schuylkill River Park (under construction)

Penn's Landing (delayed)


TRANSIT

Reconstruction of EL in West Philly (under construction)

Penns landing is cursed.
Out of 10 residential projects, only 2 are in the works.Not good at all.

"10 rittenhouse square" is to start construction on nov15th see web site http://www.arcwheeler.com/

^ Is there any clearer definition for "sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet"?

Wow thats good news. Lets hope it really goes through.

the sales office for "10 Rittenhouse Square" , 33 story condo and retail complex confirmed that construction will start nov 21st

^ Good.

Hmmm, so it looks like that "condo boom" was all talk. I mean seriously, the best designed condo(mandeville), most likely isnt going to happen. I was on skyscraperpage, and they said 10 rittenhouse is dead, 1706 is dead, nothing on mandeville, murano (only 15% sold)... I knew it was too good to be true.

Do you think that has something to do with the excellent stock of old townhomes/rowhouses already available in and near center city? I think that a boom will happen eventually after the city's momentum has picked up a little more steam.

10 Rittenhouse is happening.

Mandeville Place is not dead.

The Murano looks like a go for January.

Just because a project does not move forward at lightning speed doesn't mean it isn't happening at all. There is a surge in condo construction - not all highrise. Some type of demand has to be there or these projects wouldn't even be announced.

NC, the supply of row/townhomes around CC has little to do with it mainly because such housing was occupied long long ago. The only places you'll find swaths of such housing to be found are in neighborhoods farther out from Center City and generally in areas that aren't touted as great neighborhoods.

It would be so cool if RATR and Mandeville were approved. I'm sick of looking at that unsightly parking lot next to the Ritz.

i thought ratr was approved for a second too, but i guess its not. the murano is one of my favorites so i think it great that that one seams to be heading in the right direction. and how do u guys feel about waterfront square. do u thiink it will help turn the waterfront into a neighborhood. u know, if all the zoning issues eventually get resolved

Waterfront Square, for now, will be a gated community so I don't see how that fact alone would contribute to the development of any type of community outside its own gates.

10 years down the line, after these projects have finished there may be some type of neighborhood environment but then again look at the condo and apartment towers that line The Parkway. Do you see people mingling in the streets there?

ur right, i don't.

How come the slanted part of the Cira Center isn't illuminated with those LED's??? I like the lighting, especially with the green color, but is it that the developers were too lazy to put them on that part or what??? Just wondering!

^ because thats the way its supposed to look.

The LED's panels aren't made to attach to the windows at an angle. When I took the Cira Tour last month I took a close look at them. The effect they'd have on the interior would leave much to be desired.

In addition, the LED's can be nearly impossible to see when you're standing more than a certain angle of degrees from them. Placing the panels on already angeled panes would mean the topmost floors would only be visible from higher up and far away.

philly. u gotta love it. i have nothing to say today but i feel like the forum needed a post

how about atlantic city. the bella condominiums and the pier at caesars. i don't feel like pretending i know how to post a picture on this forum so i'm sure someone will do it for me. and AC is close to philly and they don't have their own thread so this is all but appropriate don't you think? i thought so.

Demolition for the site of The Murano begins next week and is scheduled for completion in Q3 2008.

From globest.com (Read the article here (http://www.globest.com/news/419_419/philadelphia/140429-1.html)).

JV Plans $165M, 42-Story Murano Condos on Market Street

By Marita Thomas

PHILADELPHIA-Murano, a 42-story, curved, glass-clad condominium tower, is planned for the parcel at 2101 Market St. at the intersection of N 21st Street, which now contains a Budget Rental unit and surface parking lot. Murano’s developer is a joint venture between locally based P&A Associates and Los Angeles-based Thomas Properties, which has an office here and owns or manages several Center City office buildings, including Commerce Square and 1835 Market St.

Randy Scott, the Thomas SVP who heads the office here, tells GlobeSt.com the all-in development cost “is approximately $165 million.” The architect is Chicago-based Solomon Cordwell Buenz Associates, which designed the St. James 45-story rental residential tower on Washington Square owned by P&A Associates.

Murano will contain 302 residential units and 9,000 sf of ground-floor retail. “The ground-floor space has ceilings of about 14 feet with floor-to-ceiling glass,” Scott says. “We think, because of the building’s proximity to the Market Center, a home furnishings tenant might be suitable and we’ve been approached by people who’d like to open a restaurant.”

The residential units range from 742 sf to more than 2,000 sf. The selling prices begin in the high $300,000s and reach to $2 million, Scott says. CitiHabitat, an affiliate of Corcoran Group, is handling marketing and sales.

Scott says demolition at the site will begin next week and completion is scheduled for third quarter of 2008. Asked if he had concerns about an over-supply of condos in Center City, he says, “I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned, but we’re optimistic that we’re at the beginning of the trend, and this location is ideal and ripe for residential development. We’ve had our eye on West Market Street for some time and see this as the third step of development there, following Commerce Square and 1835.” Asked if a fourth step was in the works, he answers, “there’s nothing to write about yet.”

This will be a sweet addition to the Philly skyline. Here is a rendering of the 475 feet tall Murano:

http://www.philly.com/images/philly/inquirer/11690/136658495450.jpg

This is good news.

Is it me, or is Westbrook not the most overrated player in football right now??? I like the fact that he is a good playmaker, but he's not a great RB, and I mean running the ball. I see a lot of fans comparing him to Marshall Faulk and LT, but he's nowhere close to those two, as both have proven to be strong runners as well as good recivers and all-around players, and both look to be a lock in the HOF. As a matter of fact, he's the worst RB in the NFC East, behind Portis, Barber, and Jones. I don't even think that he's worth the money or the time to keep in the team because he hasn't proven to me that he can be a dependable runner when we need it!!! Just stating my two cents, and I liked TO last year, and was willing to give him a second chance in Philly, but he's turned into an asshole and jeopardized his career of playing in the NFL, and even his chances of making it into the HOF are slim to none because he's proven that he's not a team player, period!!! I might be a little late on the TO subject, but that's how I feel about the Eagles. Can anybody say 6-10???

^^^^that has NOTHING to do with anything! haha. but we're glad u shared

Is it me, or is Westbrook not the most overrated player in football right now??? I like the fact that he is a good playmaker, but he's not a great RB, and I mean running the ball. I see a lot of fans comparing him to Marshall Faulk and LT, but he's nowhere close to those two, as both have proven to be strong runners as well as good recivers and all-around players, and both look to be a lock in the HOF. As a matter of fact, he's the worst RB in the NFC East, behind Portis, Barber, and Jones. I don't even think that he's worth the money or the time to keep in the team because he hasn't proven to me that he can be a dependable runner when we need it!!! Just stating my two cents, and I liked TO last year, and was willing to give him a second chance in Philly, but he's turned into an asshole and jeopardized his career of playing in the NFL, and even his chances of making it into the HOF are slim to none because he's proven that he's not a team player, period!!! I might be a little late on the TO subject, but that's how I feel about the Eagles. Can anybody say 6-10???

You gotta aslo keep in mind that since T.O. is gone, Westbrook is gonna see double teams on every play. Also the running game has to do w/ the offensive line, not just the runner. I would agree he has to improve but I think the whole team in general has too. But this season is lost, so I rather get the high draft pick & re-tool for next yr. I like Reggie Brown's game so far.

What's the word on the Rivage site in East Falls? Is this going to happen?

Um so this thread is really dead.

Is it me or is it all the "knowledgeable" fans at www.700level.com dumb as bricks??? :bleep: :bleep: :bleep: :mad: :mad: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: I keep telling them that Westbrook isn't worth his contract and isn't a better RB than Tiki, Portis, or LT, but I guess they're drunk on the green kool-aid!!!!! Personally, I liked Staley better as the Eagles RB than Westbrook because he's reliable on the run while Westie has yet to prove that and please don't use the GB game as an excuse because GB has a very weak defense!!!!

Don't get me wrong, but I'm a die-hard Phila sports fan, but if I see there's something wrong, I'm going to speak out against it and what's wrong with the Eagles is Andy, Banner, and Lurie. Andy can't coach, Banner can't look for good talent, and Lurie is clueless!!!!!!! I get tired of being compared to the Pats because unlike the Eagles, the Pats proven themselves to win when it matters the most while we choked on nothing but McNabb's Chunky soup!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :soapbox: :soapbox: :soapbox:

And as much as I hate TO for what he did to the Eagles, I wonder why NOBODY is standing up for McNabb???? It has something to do with his contract, and I love McNabb as a QB, but the contract is killing the team (i.e. Vincent, Taylor, Staley, Trotter, Douglas, Simon, etc.). Holla!!!!

i played with some existing renderings of comcast and the murano and added them into this view from 676 east. this is my first photoshop involving skyscrapers

http://www.pbase.com/image/52995801.jpg

^ Excellent!I know that the Murano is a definite go so this is really good.

Demolition of the Budget Rent-A-Car is done so it looks like things will proceed as planned for groundbreaking next month.

Hey, when did they start lighting up Cira Center? I was just in Center City tonight and it looks awesome. Is that going to be a permanent thing or is it temporary?

That particular lighting scheme wasjust for last night's opening ceremony. On a regular night there will just be solic LED's (they've been blue for the past few weeks bt I've heard white would be the default).

^ what he said.

Well, maybe not. The twinkles are on again tonight but this is still opening weekend. I'd be very surprised if it continued beyond that.

Heh, there's Times Square, the Vegas Strip and now Cira Centre. How do you like that? :)

I hope it dosnt continue to be like that every night.It would be more special if it were just on for special events and occasions.

just so I'M clear, the murano is going to be next to the trader joes right? old city 205 is one of my favorites too.

The Murano will be on the same block as Trader Joe's, the northwest corner of 21st & Market.

Here is a new condo project...developed by Parkway Corporation.

The sign just went up two days ago, photo on the site takes up the entire surface lot and it 7 stories tall.

The website, unfortunately, does not have photos yet.

pearl condo 11 & vine (http://www.thepearlcondos.com/)

Looks like Opus's design of 1919 Market is a go, it has been approved by the CCRA & Philadelphia Zoning Commision.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1269/opuseast2uj.jpg
Pic Coutersy of SuPhilly from ssp

Opus looks beuatiful. Extremely exciting!

Any renderings for the Pearl condos?

The Opus looks great.

I'm very jealous. Phily gets buildings like the Opus. In Baltimore, we get CRAP like this. Want to trade? :poke: Two goats, a pig, and a Graves for an Opus.

City OKs high-rise over Metro station
Cordish Co. to build condo-apartment tower near Port Discovery. Michael Graves architect.
http://home.comcast.net/~jonathanpreston/cordish.jpg

I'm very jealous. Phily gets buildings like the Opus. In Baltimore, we get CRAP like this. Want to trade? :poke: Two goats, a pig, and a Graves for an Opus.

City OKs high-rise over Metro station

wada_guy that's pretty bad, in fact thats horrible. I feel for you.


2006 major tower construction in Philly

Comcast Center- underway
Symphony House-underway
Waterfront square towers 1 +2 underway Towers 3 + 4 to commence shortly.
Murano-Jan
Residence at Ritz Carlton-Jan
Opus 1919 Market- June
10 Rittenhouse-?
1441 Chestnut?

and how can I forget the best of them all-- Mandeville.

http://www.mandevilleplace.com/images/Mandevile_Ads_print.jpg

I don't think there is a start date for Mandeville, unfortunately I don't think there is much of a market for this high priced condo in our area.

-I believe Marina View along Del Ave will be a go next yr as well.
-Looks like WFS Tower III has already begun
-10 Rittenhouse just got approval from a zoning judge so it lets like a go (however, there is no start date on the website) http://www.10rittenhouse.com/

^ I still have hope for Mandeville :)

i like mandeville, but the condos are so expensive. i feel like we could have it built in the next few years, but not right now. i like opus and murano and i'm excited for the ritz. does anybody care about metroclub? its not high rise, but its a great concept. lets talk about stuff. is naval square looking good now too? and what is this rumor about naval square 2? and in what i think is a nicely built up suburb of philadelphia, willow grove. it is going thru a revitilization. they are tearing down a home depot to replace it with a central park, restarurants, hotels and they're re routing york rd (rt 611) to make the area walkable hopefully. and cira centre looks great at night!

I've always liked Willow Grove area & i was unaware of this new project. Glad to hear it. I always felt Willow Grove had a nice blend of a small town "Main St" feel mixed with a touch of urban vitality.

I most excited about Murano & Opus prjects b/c it extends the skyline westward & populates Center City w/ more residents while providing some nice towers. I'm so-so about the Ritz, I like the design of 1441 Chesnut a lot better. The Metro Club looks hot, i wish they would add some pizzaz to the lighting of this building to highlight its presence. Maybe some neon?

Looks like Opus's design of 1919 Market is a go, it has been approved by the CCRA & Philadelphia Zoning Commision.
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1269/opuseast2uj.jpg
Pic Coutersy of SuPhilly from ssp

That rendering of the condo looks a lot better than the previous ones. Hopefully they put the parking lot underground. Wish it was a little taller, but not taller than the IBX tower, just a little taller than Commerce Square.

Yea, it was the 3rd revision for the current Opus design. I wish it was taller also considering the price range of 250K to 800K & the hot condo market, I would think they wouldn't have too much trouble selling. I'm grateful for all the projects that are coming to fruition but my New Year's wish is for some propsed projects w/ immense HEIGHT in 2006!!! wishful thinking on my part...

wanderer, there will be six levels of parking, three underground and three above ground but tastefully hidden.

sorry my last response was so choppy and all over the place. i was watching tv. i'm usually more coherent

I'm not sure if anyone said this already, but if Mandeville were to get built, how tall would it be?

607 feet, 43 stories.

^ thanks

Looks like another one for Philly in 2006! 1441 Chesnut gained approval from the zoning board today. I personally love this design.
http://www.phillyskyline.com/123abc/1441chestnut.jpg
pic courtesy of B-love's website: www.phillyskyline.com

<Comcast Center> I never hear anyone mention the phase 2 part of this project, which is supposed to be a smaller 16 story tower....does anyone know anything about this as far as where this would be or any design info for it? Or has it been killed?

I think Phase 2 is a wait & see project. From what I remember, vendors & other subsides of Comcast would move into this tower if there was a need for it. I've seen the design somewhere but it was nothing to write home about. Just a regular squarish office building.

It would be a 16-story, 250,000 square foot building on the southwest corner of the block. Currently, as has been said, it's an option in case more space is needed in the complex.

It's on the lower left here.

http://www.ramsa.com/images/zooms/comcast1stImage.jpg

thanks for pointing that smaller one out, I'd seen that but didn't realize it was the building..Looks like such a funny option when you size the two side by side lol

Yes, I rather save that spot for maybe some other highrise in the future. Since Comcast Center is only at 70% filled as of right now, they can use the other 30% for vendors or whoever needs the space & save that prime piece of real estate for something else.

i should do more research, but what about this business tax that has lead philadelphia to lose 100,000 jobs this past decade? i'm concerned regarding our apparent love of urban real estate and our current condo boom, because these well-paying jobs are the very things that make these new condo towers possible: well-heeled people that can afford to buy them.
on another note, do u think we could get some pictures of schuylkill banks and what most people consider a horrible looking building, that new edgewater. and there is also 23 condos, and the huge converted loft building a block away from edgewater next to the train tracks that i'm innterested in. do we think that schuylkill banks will transform that waterfront area into a potential hot spot for cafes, shops, an outdoor concert location?
and one more thing. are the residences at the ritz carlton and chestnut 1441 on the same block? if so, how close will their facades be because they seem too close. lets discuss

Looks like another one for Philly in 2006! 1441 Chesnut gained approval from the zoning board today. I personally love this design.
http://www.phillyskyline.com/123abc/1441chestnut.jpg
pic courtesy of B-love's website: www.phillyskyline.com

Wow, I really love that design too. Lucky Philly. Philly is really getting some amazing buildings in the next few years. Can't wait to see what's next.

^ I know. I can't wait either.

I spend most of my time on the Baltimore forum, and people all over these forums keeps talking about how Baltimore is such experiencing such a boom, but it looks as though Philly is experiencing an even bigger boom. Philly is definitely seeing more quality scrapers, for sure. The Mandeville looks a lot taller than 607 feet in that rendering that was posted, but it might just be the angle in which it's positioned compared to other buildings. But that one is amazing. Beautiful look and appears to be in a very quality location.

so much for holding ny transit in such high esteem. apparently strikes in public transit can happen anywhere. at least its illegal in america's largest city. (still dreaming of another subway line)........

http://www.mandevilleplace.com/images/Mandevile_Ads_print.jpg

This is one beautiful building, so worthy enough to be part of Chicago skyline. :jk:

I shall ask Santa Claus that I wish for Mandeville to be u/c next year in Philly.

^It is magnificent. We all pray it will be built.... And when I say "we" I mean me.

Oh yeah, about 1441 Chestnut, I donno if anybody mentioned this yet but I think they made a bunch of design changes. In that article from a while ago, teh small rendering showed a slightly shorter and different looking building which a modified crown. Also it said many times in the article that it would 585 feet tall, or somethign like that.

I'm looking forward to the "official" Murano groundbreaking next month. What project is everyone else looking forward to in 06? Mandeville prolly will take another year if anything is really going to happen. I hope in 06, Mahoney (1441 Chesnut) & Spencer (RATR) come to some kind of conclusion, hopefully as a joint venture (although wishful thinking on my part).

Construction costs are going through the roof by the hour. I'm just glad to see Murano is a definite go.Add Comcast,Symphony House,and Waterfront Square is locked in as they nearly have 1000 units sold (966) to be exact according to the advertisements.

I'm done with Ritz carlton and 1441 Chestnut. If they happen it's a bonus as far as I'm concerned. These guys have serious issues to delay each others projects for the past 5 years, you have to wonder just how serious they ever were. Could possibly all be a front simply waiting for the market to maximize before they sell their acre of prime real estate.

I think the smaller projects have a chance- 205 Old City, 101 walnut,Marina View and Opus. The top half of Two Liberty going condo is also a pretty sure bet. Not a problem as it will take 600,000 sf of office space off the market. If Comcast has that magnet effect that it may, you will be looking at the need for a couple new major office towers in the next 5 years.

I also think we will hear the beginnings of a few yet unannounced major condo/projects along both rivers and especially university city.The DAG has listed a proposal by Caesar Pelli for a 30 story condo at 30th + Chestnut. I also look for an announcement on the huge plot of land directly north of Waterfront Square. Not to mention the 700 Delaware Ave.project with two 40 story towers and townhouses adding up to over 1000 units.

Mandeville
10 Rittenhouse
Meridian condos

Very skeptical for me

Hey, how come the IBX building changed it's name??? Does IBX still operate in that building??? It's nice to dedicate the building after somebody, especially when they died, but I looked at the Emporis site, and I was thinking "where the hell is that", and later found out that it was the IBX. Do people still call it IBX???

Yes, IBX still operates in that building & I believe it was named after its CEO who recently passed away. Cruces, it was announced today that plot of land north of WFS will be part of a Chicago Billionare's desire to build a 450 million casino complex, there are renderings here, pretty sweet if you ask me: http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/business/13496835.htm

If they build another Pelli 30 story tower in University City, they should rename the district after Ceaser Pelli, lol.... That would be sweet - good info Cruces....

^ I definitely think they will build another tower in UC by Caeser Pelli. I mean why not? Cira Center was so successful.

:speech: I don't know how many developers have asked Santa for more skyscrapers - but I'm sure that a great many have made their New Year's resolution for 2006 for "more skyscraper additions" to both New York and Philly.

I recall last New Year's where there were empty lots on the 42nd street corridor in Manhattan, now - a year later - steel beams rising - The Orion looks done on the exterior. Now, there is a new lot for a new construction project at Dyre St.!!

On the Philly front, I look forward to seeing the beginning of Comcast Center.

My last trip to Philly was New Year's day for the Mummer's of 2005 and the Cira Centre's outer windows were being added.

I will be bringing my trusty digital camera again this year.

With another warm New Year's, New York and Philly will be ringing in the new year with more construction projects for 2006. :speech:

First, the Cira Centre, now the Comcast Center (still want it to be at least 1000+ feet!!! ;) ), and in the future Mandeville, Cira 2, 1441, RATR, and Waterfront Square!!!

P.S. Thinking about going back into time and changing the subway system. In other words, extending thee BSL to Jenkintown and Essington, the MFL as a four track subway from 69th St to 2nd St, and a two-level subway extending from Spring Garden and Frankford into the NE via Castor Ave and the Blvd in the Far NE, and adding a 5th St-Passyunk Ave line, a Phila Crosstown Line w/ Arch St spur to Penns Landing, a Norristown line, the two Chestnut Hill lines, and maybe converting routes 101 and 102 in Montgomery and Delaware counties into subways from 69th St to Drexel Hill, then elevated the rest of the way. Just a thought. And I'd make sure the commuter rail has intercity service to Reading, Lehigh Valley, Lancaster, and environs.

do my fellow skyscrapercity citezens like the idea of slots in philadelphia? i am still iffy. i think my main qualm is that the casino's would be cheesy, sorta like a luxor or something. luxor is fine in las vegas where they do themes (and they do them well and uncheesily), but i think it'd stick out like a sore thumb in a historical city like this. it'd be like a circus on one block and a piano recital on the other. but it will bring jobs, and if its done right, development on the waterfront won't just be slot machines but development. and then my other prob is that it wouldn't fit in with the city grid. when u surround a development like that with a parking lot, it gets real suburban and hopefully planners can see that keeping it as an urban casino with flair is the way to go.

If they are going to do slots, it better be done right or else it shouldnt be done. Thats my opinion.

A Philadelphia success story
Southwest's quick growth in city shows its potential in Denver
By Chris Walsh, Rocky Mountain News
December 30, 2005

PHILADELPHIA - Stroll through Philadelphia International Airport and it quickly becomes clear which airline dominates the City of Brotherly Love.
Dozens of US Airways ticketing counters stand sentry inside the airport's five terminal buildings, and the carrier's name takes up a good chunk of space on arrival and departure screens.

But another airline, tucked away in a corner of Terminal E with only a handful of check-in counters, has been getting most of the attention lately.

Low-cost king Southwest Airlines entered Philadelphia a year and a half ago with just over a dozen flights. But it swiftly has become the city's second-largest carrier, driving down airfares, ratcheting up the pressure on US Airways and helping boost the airport's passenger traffic by 30 percent since its arrival.

Southwest's story in Philadelphia provides a potent example of the airline's potential in Denver, where it will start service Tuesday.

Just how fast Southwest grows at Denver International Airport remains to be seen, and it certainly faces a tough battle against industry giant United Airlines and homegrown low-cost carrier Frontier Airlines, DIA's largest carriers.

But Southwest could become as much of a force in the Mile High City as it is in Philadelphia, experts say. And it likely will ramp up quickly at DIA if demand is strong.

"Initially, they are the proverbial gnat on the elephant's butt," said Scott Hamilton, an aviation consultant at Leeham Co. LLC in Sammamish, Wash. "But Southwest doesn't go into a market like Denver with plans to simply be a bit player. The question is, are they happy to have 50 flights a day, 80 or 200?"

The 'Southwest Effect'

At Southwest's ticketing area in Philadelphia, large banners advertise job openings for ramp agents and new flights to Florida. Lines form throughout the day, and passengers frequently swarm the automated check-in kiosks.

Numbers, though, tell the story best.

During its first 20 months in the city, Southwest:

• Increased its employees from a couple of dozen to nearly 190.

• Boosted its daily nonstop flights at the airport to 53 from 14.

• Added service to 11 new cities and increased its number of gates to eight from two.

• Captured a 10 percent market share of passenger traffic at Philadelphia International Airport, while US Airways fell about 5 percentage points.

The airline's arrival in Philadelphia is a classic example of the so-called Southwest Effect, a phenomenon in which fares drop drastically and more people end up flying when the carrier comes to town.

Southwest helped lower airfares in Philadelphia on some routes by as much as 70 percent in the months after its arrival. Fares have crept up a bit since then but are still well below pre-Southwest levels, according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

This year, Philadelphia's airline passenger traffic has jumped 15 percent compared with 2004, much of which the airport attributes to Southwest.

"They've changed things here quite a bit," airport spokesman Mark Pesce said. "We've seen how the lines at security checkpoints increased because of Southwest."

The airline's arrival in Philadelphia also helped fuel a $185 million renovation and expansion that will combine the security areas for the airport's D and E concourses. Southwest, which leases gates on both concourses, will be a prime beneficiary.

Keeping airport costs low

Southwest's decision to restart service in Denver after a failed run in the mid-1980s is as baffling to many industry experts as the carrier's move into Philadelphia.

The airline typically bypasses large airports in favor of smaller, cheaper and less crowded ones on the outskirts of metropolitan areas or in nearby cities. In Chicago, for instance, Southwest flies out of Midway rather than the much larger O'Hare International Airport.

That strategy allows Southwest to keep its average airport costs at an industry-best $5 per passenger. It's also a key reason behind the airline's stellar financial track record: 32 consecutive profitable years.

The assumption in Philadelphia was that Southwest would skip the main airport and base itself in Allentown, Pa., 60 miles to the north.

"Many people thought Philadelphia was off our radar screen because it was too congested and because US Airways had such a dominant presence," said John Minor, Southwest's Philadelphia station manager.

Similarly, the assumption along the Front Range was that Southwest would fly out of Colorado Springs rather than Denver. Industry watchers thought DIA's costs were too high - Southwest left the old Stapleton International Airport for just that reason - and the competitive situation too heated.

But Southwest saw the right mix of business conditions and an opportunity to lower fares.

In Philadelphia, several gates in close proximity to the airfield became available, allowing Southwest to alleviate some congestion concerns. And US Airways had plunged into bankruptcy, weakening the city's main carrier.

In Denver, airport fees dropped considerably in recent years and are now more aligned with Southwest's cost structure. The airline also has seen strong demand for Denver service from its customers in other areas of the country.

Here for the long haul

Southwest's CEO has made it clear he sees a wealth of potential in the Denver market, recently saying the airline "looks forward to a lot of future flights" at DIA.

It certainly seems to be headed in that direction.

Southwest has cemented three- year deals with two local TV stations to sponsor the broadcasts of Colorado Rockies, Denver Nuggets and Colorado Avalanche games, indicating that it intends to be here for the long haul. And the carrier recently added to its schedule temporary nonstop Saturday flights from Denver to Oakland, Calif., and San Diego for two months starting in February, in part to test the markets.

"I think you're going to see a wider variety of cities from Southwest out of Denver," said Dave LaPorte, Southwest's Denver station manager. "And our typical modus operandi is to operate a high number of flights to each destination."

The carrier has some room to grow at DIA, where it leases two gates on Concourse C. Southwest typically operates at least 10 flights a day at each gate. With an initial 13 daily flights from DIA, the carrier still can handle at least seven more at its current gates.

There also are two additional open gates on Concourse C, and DIA is finalizing plans to build two more. DIA said it is building the new gates to meet overall projected growth and that they are not reserved for any specific airline.

But Southwest certainly could be a leading candidate.

"If the market responds, as most do when Southwest comes in, then we would expect the carrier to add flights and gates next year," said Vicki Braunagel, co-manager of DIA.

Regardless of its growth levels, the airport will get a big boost from Southwest's arrival. DIA officials estimate that Southwest will help the airport draw another 1.5 million passengers next year. And consumers already have won: Southwest has forced down round-trip fares from DIA on the routes it will serve by as much as $100.

Competition ramps up

What does it all mean for United and Frontier?

It's difficult to say.

Some industry watchers think Southwest presents a major threat to the city's entrenched carriers. It also could take market share from airlines such as America West, Delta and Continental, which have a smaller presence at DIA.

Not only does Southwest offer some of the industry's lowest fares, but it also is known for its fun, friendly customer service.

In Philadelphia, Southwest quickly built legions of loyal fans such as John Kidwell, who flew Southwest to Tampa Bay, Fla., with his two children this month.

"I just like them better than most of the other airlines we've flown," Kidwell said. "The people who work on the plane are so laid-back. They're not as pushy and by-the- book as everyone else."

The carrier also has industry-leading on-time stats, meaning passengers are reasonably assured they'll leave - and arrive - when they're supposed to.

United and Frontier have matched Southwest's initial fares, but they could feel the pain financially as Southwest grows and they lower more ticket prices. Profit margins and growth plans could take a huge hit, some observers say.

On the other hand, Denver could prove to be much more difficult for Southwest to enter than Philadelphia and other cities.

Philadelphia was ripe for growth with just one dominant carrier and little low-cost competition before Southwest came. In Denver, though, the competition is already heated.

United and Frontier also have built strong loyal followings in the Mile High City, and neither will cede territory easily.

"Nobody in their right mind starts clapping as an investor when Southwest comes into town," said Jeff Linroth, who runs a financial advisory company in Longmont and owns Frontier shares. "But I think there's enough product differentiation between the two that Frontier will be able to continue to do what they've been doing and execute their growth plan."

In addition to live TV in every seat, Frontier prides itself on customer service and a fleet full of new planes. It also provides much more service from Denver than Southwest will, about 125 nonstop daily departures to 48 destinations.

Frontier and United also go up against Southwest in other markets.

"We've been competing with Southwest for years in other markets, and we're ready to compete with them in Denver," United spokesman Jeff Green said.

United points to its ability to connect passengers through its other hubs to destinations worldwide. The airline, which is set to emerge from bankruptcy protection in February, has a coveted frequent-flier program and about 400 daily departures at DIA.

"The ball is in United and Frontier's court," Evergreen-based airline consultant Mike Boyd said. "If they respond aggressively and come out swinging, they'll be able to do battle. If they underestimate Southwest, someone's going to die."

The dream scenario for DIA is one where all carriers thrive from increased passenger traffic.

Much of Southwest's growth in Philadelphia has come from an overall increase in passengers. US Airways lost market share, but it increased its passenger numbers by roughly 1.5 million in the first 10 months of this year compared with the same period in 2004. Its daily departures have jumped by about 50.

"I've got my doubts that Southwest could be as strong here as they've been in Philadelphia," said Bruce Strand of Denver-based aviation consulting firm TeamSAI. "But I do think Southwest, United and Frontier can all grow in Denver."

Potential for big growth

Southwest will start with a small presence in Denver.

• Service: 13 daily nonstop flights, starting Tuesday

• Cities: Phoenix, Chicago, Las Vegas. One-stop service to dozens more cities. From February through March, will fly on Saturdays to Oakland, Calif., and San Diego.

• Gates: Two on Concourse C

• Employees: About 40

• Fares: Lowered them on some routes by as much as $100

But if Philadelphia - one of Southwest's newest markets - is any indication, the carrier could grow quickly here.

• Service: Boosted daily nonstop flights to 53 from 14 since its May 2004 arrival in Philadelphia

• Cities: Added 11 new markets

• Gates: Increased to eight from two

• Employees: 190, up from a couple of dozen

• Fares: Lowered prices on some routes by up to 70 percent

• Market share: 10 percent, now the city's second-largest carrier

Happy New Everyone!

We all pretty much knew about the Southwest impact on PHL International already. It'll be a great addition to Denver's airport. I know Frontier Airlines runs direct flights btwn Philly & Denver I would be curious to know if the average r/t ticket drops even further bc i believe Frontier is already a discount airliner. Also having worked at Comcast Corporate, I know some corporate employees do a lot of traveling back & forth btwn these 2 cities since Comcast has a regional HQ out in Denver - so I know there is demand for striaght flights btwn these 2 cities.

http://img304.imageshack.us/img304/2912/lillederue10os.png

casino-wise, sugar house is the best! o man, we can only hope

I guess I am going to have to ask what that picture is norteam59?

Whatever it is - it looks hot.....

naval square is looking great. thats also one of my favorite residential construction projects. i like the pearl and the graduate hospital and such around jefferson university hospital will be a nice addition to the neighborhood. stuff stuff, lets get some pictures here people, like completed tivoli captures and other stuff people have forgot about. maybe i'll do it one of these days.

I guess I am going to have to ask what that picture is norteam59?


Sorry if I 'expresses badly because I do not speak English. (lycos translation)
It' is a tower in Lille (France). here that misses photographs, as I not is nothing on Philadelphia, I 'thus put concealed there.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=134730

Sorry if I 'expresses badly because I do not speak English. (lycos translation)
It' is a tower in Lille (France). here that misses photographs, as I not is nothing on Philadelphia, I 'thus put concealed there.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=134730

Ok, I'm not sure if you just apologized for inadvertently putting that photo in the Philly thread, because, you're right, that translation leaves something to be desired. It's a beautiful building, and we're glad you're proud of it, but let's not post that in this thread. Thanks anyhow.

I thought it was a rendering of the Cigna Annex in Center City after some "modifications". I was kind of wondering where the Bell Tower, suburban station building and Comcast Center were. nice picture just the same...

what is that crane out of the cira center doing? window washing? and the edgewater this isnt THAT bad. it would be great if there was some services on street level around it too so that it could have some community appeal. a place to eat by the river...whodathunkit? i would eat there. and i'm still obsessed with naval square, don't like the gates, but i love those townhouses. i can't wait for domus on 34th and chestnut. and the east falls complex is exciting too. in east falls they are also building an Arthur Ashe complex for sports and all around family togetherness. (aww). and i still want a W hotel. let's face it. philly needs some more hotel rooms and W's are cool. Thank goodness for the Sofitel tho.

and the edgewater this isnt THAT bad. it would be great if there was some services on street level around it too so that it could have some community appeal. a place to eat by the river...whodathunkit?

Not a bad idea but the CSX tracks prevent any immediate access to the river.The best we can hope for at this point is a nice landscaping job to the west of the complex. They are supposed to be renovating the waterworks into a restaurant, but then again they were supposed to do that in 2003,2004, and 2005, and now its 2006 and I still don't see anyone working on the transformation. They talk a good game in this town.


As far as the Edgewater, that is brutal. 150 continuous horizontal feet of drab concrete. This apartment complex is without question a serious eyesore. The Edgewater developer gets his ass kicked if he proposes this monstrosity in New York, Chicago, Boston,LA,Sea,Miami or SF.

ooo, idea, it could make edgewater look classy then. have climbing vines grow on the building and dramatic landscape lighting....ooo i can see it now. it could work people.
and i've given up (altho i shouldn't there's always hope) that the Delaware river, will be a neighborhood to walk around in. i feel like it'll always be a destination spot where u have to take a car or plan to go there. its a shame really...

skyscraperpage forum is better. i still gots love for ya tho.

Here is the story on the new Trump Tower in Philly.

trump tower article (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/13695425.htm)

The building from what Ive seen looks o.k, but Philly deserves better IMO.

I like it personally. It's not AMAZING but it'll look nice around all those buildings there. I'm excited for it.

I think it's a preliminary design. Remember Comcast Center in its original design as One Pennsylvania Plaza? It will change. For those of you who haven't seen it, here is a rendering:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4872/1431/1600/trump.0.jpg

^Don't see a pic...

The pic won't come through no matter how many times i try to re-post so if you want to see a rendering, go to this site:

http://changingskyline.blogspot.com/

The pic won't come through no matter how many times i try to re-post so if you want to see a rendering, go to this site:

http://changingskyline.blogspot.com/


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/trump6.jpg

http://ksk1.com/infopages/planning/transitinfo3.html

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8934/transitinfo3137qj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

KSK was a member of the Roosevelt Boulevard Transportation Investment Study team that prepared a Transportation Investment Study for much needed transit improvement alternatives for Northeast Philadelphia. KSK lead the team in reviewing land use impacts of each alternative and in conceptualizing the physical nature of each for public discussion. This included planning and conceptual design for transit-oriented development for several of transit alternatives proposed.
Project: Roosevelt Boulevard Transportation Investment Study: Station Studies

Client: Philadelphia City Planning Commission, Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, and the Mayor’s Office of Transportation

Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

There should be an Apple store in the Gallery.

Here is a rendering of the new National Jewish American Museum that is going up on 5th & Market.

http://www.nmajh.org/images/index/bottom_buttons/2_future_nmajh.jpg

:omg: Trump is planning a Philadelphia skyscraper?

Finally! :okay:

Am I the only one that likes the Trump Tower?

I like it. It's not stand-outish but it'll look nice and will be veyr contrasting and bold next to other buildings right around there like Waterfront Square.

Looks like there's a lot of exciting projects happening in Philly right now! I really want to go there soon. Boston has a site, archboston.com where it talks about all the new projects going up in our city, along with some photo tours of the city. I was wondering if Philly had anything like this and if so could someone give me a link?

the best site for that is www.phillyskyline.com (Not my site but it is the best site out there for all the info on Philly projects).

What do u think about these condos? I don't know if I like it or hate it..
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y47/jayr05/PHILLY%20FEB06/000_0620w.jpg

SeE some photos of philly
CLICK TO VIEW PHOTOS (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=7512916#post7512916)

I would have liked for them to add the addition towards the street instead of verticle. Nothing worse than a sprawling parking lot remaining on Market Street.

That limestone on 23 was imported from Italy. It's not a bad retro but i really would have liked to lose that parking lot.

When I looked at the rendering, it looked like there would be some type of landscaping where the parking lot is. I might be wrong though.

Hi Philadelphia. I just spent a long weekend in your city and was amazed at all the development. Not just City Center, but in the neighborhoods, too. Lots of new condo buildings, condo conversion of historic buildings, and tons of single houses being renovated or newly built everywhere. I have been visiting Philadelphia for years, but I have never seen so much development at once. Mostly I was in Fishtown, Northern Liberties, Art Museum, Italian Market area, all over City Center. The highlight of my visit was First Friday in Old City. It was very cold & windy, but still lots of people out visiting art galleries.

Glad you had fun expat.

For the past 5 years Center City has been improving steadily. You notice a difference with each passing season. Last spring was more vibrant than the spring before, I'm sure this spring will seem more vibrant than last spring as more and more housing and condo renovations finish up and become occupied. Also the suburbanites are making center city their weekend -go to spot- which is a good thing.

Maybe I'm wrong here but I think the day will soon arrive that the long time Philadelphians will yearn for the old days when they could get a seat at their local coffee shop or buy a beer for $3 dollars. Center City and its fringe neighborhoods are going to be changing a bunch in the next decade. In the Spring you have to stake out a spot in Rittenhouse square by 10 am or you are out of luck. Nearly every inch of that park is used up.

Expat, I'm glad you took the time to spend time in the great city of Philly. Hopefully you'll be back soon. :)

Next month, i.e., April, both The Resdiences at the Ritz, and 10 Rittenhouse Square will start construction. 10 Rittenhouse Square finished demolition 2 weeks ago. So by May we should have Comcast, Murano, 10 Rittenhouse Sq, Ritz, Symphony House, the 3rd Waterfront Sq tower, Marina View tower, all under construction. A good start don't you think!

Not to mention the smaller projects and conversions. Edgewater,Marina View,22 Front, Domus,101 Walnut,1352 Lofts etc..

I was around 10 years ago when Philly was on the ropes. there wasn't anything happening just a mass exodus of people. All this new development is tremendous.

Why don't some of you people check this (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=100914) out if you haven't already.

Ummm, is this thread officially dead? lol....

i passes 1919 market st yesterday and they do have a billboard with the picture of the Opus East's 38 story condo tower. Whether or not this means something is iminent is another question.

Can anyone post some recent photos of the Comcast Center building site? I was in Philly in July and I fell in love with the building (render)! How many stories does it already have by now?
Thanks, :okay:

apetrella, 1919 Market is good for launch later this spring.

JohnnyMass, there is a Comcast Center thread here at SSC and here (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=100987) on SSP. I suggest the SSP thread. It's updated more often by, well, people who live here.

Thanks volguus!:okay: awesome pics!

Some thoughts on the Comcast Center
A building 975 feet high could easily contain 80 stories of residential floors and at least 70 stories of tranditional office floors. Comcast chose 57 stories with hights of 14 to 17 feet. One reason stated is to gain the LEED certification. But 70 or 75 stories at say 12 to 14 feet would contain 30 to 40% more rentable space. Of course if the market was deemed unable to support this rental space one would be hesitant to build it. In any event the economic equation must mean that the LEED certification and any ancillary benefits to employees must offset the lost of potentially 40% more rental revenue. Anyone in the building/developemnt field understand what is going on here from a rental market point of view?

lol looks like we've all discovered the Threads on SSP while this site was getting it's self together

From: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/0430biz-philadelphia-southwest04.html
___________________________
Southwest stretching wings in US Airways hub
Dawn Gilbertson
The Arizona Republic
Apr. 30, 2006 12:00 AM
PHILADELPHIA - The bright blue planes with the red bellies aren't the fixtures they are at Sky Harbor International Airport, the ticket counter just a fraction of the size.

Southwest Airlines may not be as in-your-face in Philadelphia as it is in Phoenix, but the nation's leading discount airline is a definite player, a familiar and fast-growing rival to the new US Airways.

Southwest began service at Philadelphia International in May 2004 with 14 daily departures. It now has quadruple that amount and is looking to add many more. This month, it announced plans for seven additional flights, including to two new cities. It has expanded in Philadelphia faster than in any other new market.

"We don't intend to be small for long," said John Minor, Southwest's Philadelphia station manager. "We intend to grow much larger than we are."

The airline snared 8.2 percent of the passengers boarding planes in Philadelphia last year, up from 3.5 percent in 2004. The biggest chunk of the gains came from US Airways. The market share for the Tempe-based airline fell nearly 3.1 percentage points.

Still, US Airways' continuing dominance in Philadelphia is clear: Its market share totaled 64 percent last year. The airline has 444 daily departures from Philadelphia, vs. 58 for Southwest.

In contrast, the market share in Phoenix of the combined America West-US Airways is 49 percent, to Southwest's 29 percent. US Airways has 311 daily flights, Southwest about 200.

Minor admits that the best scenario for Southwest would have been for the old US Airways to go out of business or shrink dramatically in Philadelphia, distinct possibilities before the merger with America West surfaced last spring.

Southwest had driven US Airways largely out of Baltimore after it rapidly ramped up service there in the mid-1990s.

When the airline entered Philadelphia, it told airport officials it would take as many 25 gates if they were available, Minor said. In Southwest's turn-planes-around-as-quick-as-you-can model, that equates to 250 daily flights, more than the airline has in Phoenix or in any other city.

It certainly wasn't the only airline with contingency plans should US Airways die.

US Airways, of course, survived. The merged airline, America West-US Airways debuted in late September, with new management and $2.5 billion in cash. And far from retreating in Philadelphia, it is plowing millions into its operation there, even growing internationally.

"We've got a tough fight," said Minor, who worked for US Airways for years before joining Southwest in 1999. "I think there's room for both of us to live here."

Rivals redux


The America West executives running the new US Airways are all too familiar with Southwest. They are fond of saying they successfully have competed with it for years in Phoenix and Las Vegas and will do the same thing in the US Airways hubs of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and, when the time comes, Charlotte, N.C.

Scott Kirby, the US Airways executive vice president, held the same title at America West. He said the new US Airways has more advantages over Southwest in Philadelphia than it did in Phoenix. The airline is significantly larger, has more international service and flies non-stop to countless business-travel markets in the region.

"A lot of Philadelphia business travelers need to fly to small markets up and down the East Coast that Southwest doesn't service," he said. "They need to fly internationally, and they want to be in a single frequent-flier program."

He added, "Those customers are going to tend to choose US Airways, if for no other reason than Southwest can't meet their needs."

He said Southwest also faces the daunting challenge of snagging more gates in Philadelphia. It currently has eight.

"It is a very constrained airport," Kirby said. "It will be a harder place for them to grow."

Grab for gates


Southwest CEO Gary Kelly repeatedly has said gate space is a challenge in Philadelphia and that the airline aggressively works with the airport to find more.

A game of musical gates is under way with the bankruptcies of Delta and Northwest, providing potential vacancies, Southwest believes. It has its eye on four Delta gates it plans to turn into five gates.

Charles Isdell, director of aviation in Philadelphia, said that it won't happen overnight, but there is the possibility of gate relocations and other moves to accommodate the nation's largest discount carrier.

Minor sees Philadelphia eventually becoming a megastation, Southwest's designation for cities with more than 100 departures a day. Phoenix, Chicago and Las Vegas are the Texas-based airline's largest megastations, each with 200-plus flights a day.

"There's a huge population here that wants relatively inexpensive fares," Minor said.

As with all cities Southwest enters, the airline's low fares stirred up new demand in Philadelphia as well as luring passengers from other airlines.

"They brought out a whole new population of customers that I guess were just staying home before," Isdell said.

Stories abound of travelers from outside the city driving to Philadelphia to catch a Southwest flight. The New York Times did a feature about New York-area residents driving two hours to save money on a flight. Southwest doesn't serve the three major airports in metropolitan New York, just Islip on Long Island.

Falling fares


In the first full quarter of Southwest's operation in Philadelphia, airfares fell 15.8 percent across the board, more than in any other city, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. US Airways, of course, matched on routes where the airlines compete.

Fans of Southwest wish it served more cities non-stop from Philadelphia so fares would drop. US Airways fliers can pay $1,000 round trip for a last-minute flight from Philadelphia to Buffalo. The most Southwest charges between Baltimore and Buffalo, the same distance, is $198 roundtrip.

"My biggest disappointment is some of the markets they're not in, like Minneapolis and Detroit," said John Esaia, who lives in the northern suburbs of Philadelphia and flies about five times a year.

Jane Pond isn't enamored. The retired emergency-room nurse from Philadelphia has watched the reality-television show featuring Southwest and decided it's not her style.

"I would never fly them because I really want to have a seat. I want to be able to upgrade (to first class)," the 61-year-old frequent flier said.

Pond said Southwest's fares from Philadelphia to Manchester, N.H., where her niece lives, are cheaper than US Airways'. Southwest round-trip fares on the route range from $78 to $198 plus tax; US Airways, $78 to several hundred dollars.

Still, no sale for Pond.

"It's just not worth it to me."