Baltimore Development News 6 [Archive]

jpreston02

September 4th, 2005, 02:28 AM

StevenW

September 4th, 2005, 02:37 AM

Anyone think that the NBA might allow Baltimore serve as the Hornets temporary home until New Orleans is rebuilt. I mean our arena is underused and we have the demographic and the market to handle a NBA team. Does anyone have any thoughts on this....(clearly there are more important things to worry about in regards to New Orleans but I thought this might be a nice break from the depressing stuff)

That;s an interesting idea. Maybe e-mailing the Mayor about that NBA situation might not be a bad idea. :)

StevenW

September 4th, 2005, 02:42 AM

In regards to 300 East Pratt - I have Harvey Schulweis' (the developer) email address but he was very mum the last time I emailed him. In fact I think he was a little suprised that he was contacted, and in his two emails to me he seemed a little annoyed. (A lot of Google searching turned up his working email address)

I don't know if SLCE architects of New York are still on this project. They've done some great tall ones in NY so I hope they're still involved.

In regards to Maglev, yes it's an extremely costly project. Perhaps too expensive, especially the cost of a ride without any government subsidies. But, the recent transportation bill passed by congress and signed by the President contained over $2 Billion for America's first maglev.

In 2001, the Secretary of Transportation chose Pittsburgh and Baltimore/Washington for the final environmental studies. I believe once all the environmental studies have finished, the Secretary of Transportation makes the final call on which project "wins." I don't know where they stand on the Final Environmental Impact Statements, both project websites are pretty stale. Now that there's Federal money again, maybe these projects will liven back up.

The other interesting aspect of Maglev is its implications with the Washington Metro. A longterm study was released that examined the possiblity of the Washington Metro making it's way all the way up to Fort Meade, and then possibly on to Baltimore. In either case, both projects are decades away. Though the Maglev could probably be built in 10 years once the location has been selected.

I have talked with an e-mailed SLCE if they were still a part of 300 east pratt and they said, "NO". :( Said, "someone else was on that project". :(
Let's hope it's taller and a MUCH better design. I like the idea of a glass and steel tower soaring high in the sky. And it should be around 600 ft. tall. :D

StevenW

September 4th, 2005, 02:43 AM

BTW, I'd like to see a tower allot like the new "Signature Tower" that's being built in Nashville. It's awesome! :)

jay130

September 4th, 2005, 02:59 AM

In regards to 300 East Pratt - I have Harvey Schulweis' (the developer) email address but he was very mum the last time I emailed him. In fact I think he was a little suprised that he was contacted, and in his two emails to me he seemed a little annoyed. (A lot of Google searching turned up his working email address)

I don't know if SLCE architects of New York are still on this project. They've done some great tall ones in NY so I hope they're still involved.

In regards to Maglev, yes it's an extremely costly project. Perhaps too expensive, especially the cost of a ride without any government subsidies. But, the recent transportation bill passed by congress and signed by the President contained over $2 Billion for America's first maglev.

In 2001, the Secretary of Transportation chose Pittsburgh and Baltimore/Washington for the final environmental studies. I believe once all the environmental studies have finished, the Secretary of Transportation makes the final call on which project "wins." I don't know where they stand on the Final Environmental Impact Statements, both project websites are pretty stale. Now that there's Federal money again, maybe these projects will liven back up.

The other interesting aspect of Maglev is its implications with the Washington Metro. A longterm study was released that examined the possiblity of the Washington Metro making it's way all the way up to Fort Meade, and then possibly on to Baltimore. In either case, both projects are decades away. Though the Maglev could probably be built in 10 years once the location has been selected.

Thats interesting....Pittsburgh is the only other city that is in contention. No offense to anyone from Pittsburgh but it seems like a slam dunk for the Balt-Wash corridor which is much more populated and is a good starting point for further expansion to the remaining major cities on the east coast. (i,e Philly, Ny and Boston) I dont really see the benefit of putting this in Pittsburgh unless their are serious transportation issues or a serious need to link western PA to eastern PA.

Furthermore with the expansion of the Bases in MD,it seems like there will be a need to have adequate transportation between baltimore and washington and everywhere in between. Just my thoughts...

* can anyway tell me too how to post pics do you need imageshack or something?

StevenW

September 4th, 2005, 03:07 AM

If they are your own pictures, yes, upload them to an image server. If not, just right click on the picture and click properties, then you'll see the url address. High-light the address and copy it. Then come to the forum and post it in the reply box by putting a in front of the address you paste then imediately after put then click the "post quick reply" button. Hope that helps some. Oh yeah, you can use the regular "post reply" button and paste the address in the image box. :D

Furiine

September 4th, 2005, 05:42 AM

Hey guys, I went to the Maryland/Navy game at M&T tonight with a couple friends (Maryland won by the way.) :cheer: :D Anyways, they redirected us to park on a grassy area besides a building in South Baltimore. On the way back, we sidetracked around Race Street and I caught a glimpse of a lot of renovated homes and scaffolds going around, but they were near a freight line. The area's looking better. :cheers:

waj0527

September 4th, 2005, 03:11 PM

I went to the game too. What a great game it was. There's really no reason why the Terps and the Mids cant do this more often. After the game there was such a great show of sportsmanship on both sides. The Terps stood respectfully behind the mids as they did the traditional march over to the brigade to sing their fight song. The Mids did the same as the Terps rushed over to the Maryland student section to sing the Maryland Fight song.

Kudos to the Ravens front office staff for making this happen. It was such a good event for the state and the city. Ravens Stadium is such a nice venue and its so underused. We get the NCAA Lax Championships every couple years and the ACC lax championships are here again this spring. Hopefully, we can get a bid for the ACC Football Championship game in the near future.

Navy plays in Baltimore each of the next four years. There's no reason why Maryland cant play Navy or Miami or Florida State or whomever in Baltimore once every other year or so. (or Landover even).

JAB323

September 4th, 2005, 04:47 PM

Does Anyone Have Any Renderings of One Light Street And 300 East Pratt Street

Baltimoreguy

September 4th, 2005, 05:17 PM

One light street was posted a long time ago. It was changed to a 28 story apartment tower.

StevenW

September 4th, 2005, 05:48 PM

300 East pratt
Last rendering ever released:
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/6300_e__pratt-thumb.jpg

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/6slcepropelev-thumb.jpg

and.. the old One Light Street proposals
the new one is about half the height and just residential. Very bland. I'll try to find it.

The older One Light Street proposals:
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/6genslerfillat-thumb.jpg

robert parsons

September 4th, 2005, 08:27 PM

i think that renaming bwi is just a waste of money right now!!! they should use that money towards the schools or better transportation. but we have to honor someone who hates baltimore by renaming more things after that person. here i am again blowing off steam again and wasteing my breath. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: maybe to save money they can hire kids and make some interesting grafitti art with his name or go to walmart and buy a couple of cans of spraypaint and use the money elsewhere?

JAB323

September 4th, 2005, 09:14 PM

Is Water Tower The Tallest Under Contruction, And So How Tall Is One Light Street And 300 East Pratt Street, And St. Regis Tower Supposed To Be :eek2:

seanlax5

September 5th, 2005, 04:10 AM

where's St regis supposed to be

and what happened to tearing lower I-83 and opening up the prjects for direct access to the CBD?

jay130

September 5th, 2005, 06:39 AM

does anyone know how many fortune 500 companies baltimore has?

PeterSmith

September 5th, 2005, 06:47 AM

does anyone know how many fortune 500 companies baltimore has?

I am by no means positive on this one, but I don't think it is all that many. I think this is one area that Baltimore lacks in. I want to say there are two. Constellation Energy being the largest, and I think there is one more, but I can't remember what it is. Constellation was just named one of the fastest growing Fortune 500s in the country too. There are quite a few other companies in Baltimore that are growing and might make the list in the coming years, but I think there are only two at the moment. This isn't all that surprising though with all the competition in the region. The Baltimore suburbs have one or two more I think, also.

PeterSmith

September 5th, 2005, 06:53 AM

I made a nice tour of the Baltimore waterfront this afternoon. I took 80-some pictures and four movies, which I'll post in the coming days. But I just wanted to say that, and it's not anything new, that I have never seen Baltimore so alive. The Inner Harbor was packed with tourists from all over the world. I heard at least a dozen different languages being spoken. I took my first view at Harbor East and it looks really nice. It had a decent amount of street activity, but you can tell that there is a great amount more coming in the coming months. 800 Aliceanna has quite a ways to go, and the renovation of that plaza in front of City Hall is in under way as well. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to take a look at the Westside or even the Westside of the harbor at the Zenith or anything. Anyone know how that is coming along?

JAB323

September 5th, 2005, 02:32 PM

Fortune 1000 - Maryland

Baltimore

Constellation Energy Group # 167
Legg Mason, Inc. # 757
Vertis, Inc. # 874
NeighborCare, Inc. # 937

Bethesda

Lockheed Martin Corporation # 47
Coventry Health Care, Inc. # 371
Host Marriott Corporation # 486
Marriott International # 493
USEC, Inc. # 949

Columbia

W.R. Grace & Co. # 696

Sparks

McCormcik & Company, Inc. # 639

Towson

Black & Decker Corp. # 359

StevenW

September 5th, 2005, 05:14 PM

Is Water Tower The Tallest Under Contruction, And So How Tall Is One Light Street And 300 East Pratt Street, And St. Regis Tower Supposed To Be :eek2:

At 341 ft. tall, yes, currently, the Water Street Tower is the tallest under construction. The latest released design for One Light Street is around 280 ft. to 300 ft. tall. That, IMO, is very sad for such a premeire site downtown. 300 East Pratt Street, at the latest released design is supposed to be anywhere from 400 ft. to 450 ft. tall, maybe. No specifics really, sorry. :(
St. Regis's tower height is not known. They said they were to build a "World Class" tower there, so it might be very tall or maybe kinda tall. We should see this month as announcements are supposed to be officially released this Sept. barring no bumps along the way. :) Hopefully this will be our new "tallest". :D

StevenW

September 5th, 2005, 05:17 PM

StevenW

September 5th, 2005, 05:20 PM

where's St regis supposed to be

and what happened to tearing lower I-83 and opening up the prjects for direct access to the CBD?

St. Regis will be built at 414 Light Street, (or the old McCormick site). :D

As for the I-83 proposal, I think it was pretty much turned down by the city.
I may be wrong. If so, guy, then please help me out on this one.

StevenW

September 5th, 2005, 05:21 PM

jaysonjaz

September 5th, 2005, 05:47 PM

Anyone think this banner above looks a bit like Baltimore's inner harbor?

http://207.44.228.232/images/PIX/forumheaders/5.jpg

StevenW

September 5th, 2005, 06:07 PM

http://webpages.charter.net/spookious/Forum/csweeney.gif

Well, maybe if you "squint" your eyes just right.... ;)

jay130

September 5th, 2005, 06:37 PM

jay130

September 5th, 2005, 06:39 PM

BTW, which of these two One Light Street Tower designs do you guys like the best and/or do you think would have "fit" into the skyline best?

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/6genslerfillat-thumb.jpg

Personally, I like the left design. :) Much more futuristic. :D

I like them both, but I would agree the left is really distinct and futurstic looking bothe either of them would be a great addition to our skyline...it seems to me that Baltimore has a nice skyline it just doesnt have a really distinctive one yet

Furiine

September 5th, 2005, 08:26 PM

Here's an interesting article by Dan Rodricks concerning the Terrapin Run proposal in Allegany that would build 4,300 homes to ease the economic woes of the county. He has some interesting points. Unless they intend to make Cumberland a place of commerce, I agree that housing there probably won't help much. As far as I'm concerned, diverting the proposal in a similar form in Baltimore would be the most beneficial.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/realestate/bal-md.rodricks05sep05,1,2514827.column?coll=bal-realestate-headlines-1

HERE'S A suggestion for Michael Carnock, the developer in Columbia who wants to build 4,300 homes in Allegany County in the belief that people will be willing to drive incredible distances to work - 200 miles round trip to Washington, 180 miles round trip to Gaithersburg, 140 miles round trip to Frederick - and pay incredible amounts of money for gasoline so they can live there:

Come to Baltimore. Build houses here.

We have block after block just waiting for what you guys call "in-fill."

Instead of destroying open space in the mountains of Western Maryland, right near Green Ridge State Forest, come to Baltimore and develop homes here. We've got plenty of space, primed for redevelopment.

We have old rowhouses that need renovation and plenty of residents looking for construction jobs. We have access to the commuter rail and BWI, and a reputation as a relatively affordable place to live for people who work in Washington. And we have amenities, including the best medical care in the world for the aging baby boomers you say you see as your primary customers. We'll even get the governor and the mayor to throw some serious tax breaks your way - a Republican and a Democrat working together to save open space and to bring redevelopment where it's needed.

OK. End of pitch. I'm trying to be nice.

What I really wanted to say was this: Carnock's idea of building 4,300 homes in a rural county with no jobs to offer - essentially, a remote and isolated bedroom - comes at a time when private developers and government agencies should be working closely to rebuild old communities and develop smart new ones in and near urban centers. It comes as a new generation of Americans discovers the city life their parents spurned, and as the nation faces the reality of rising energy costs and personal and governmental debt that could forever change lifestyles in this country.

So all that makes Carnock's Terrapin Run one of the most asinine schemes to come down the pike in years.

I mean, this is thinking 50 years behind the American clock: Buy cheap land in a rural area, get the local officials, all desperate to show "growth" of any kind (even if it doesn't create enduring jobs) to approve your plan, and build houses in the middle of nowhere, where there's no infrastructure, and argue that there's a "market" you are serving.

You may not even have enough well water for all the homes you propose to build. No problem. You just buy more land so you can tap into another natural resource, a nearby creek, to serve your development.

Carnock, who acknowledges not having enough well water on the 1,000 acres he's acquired for the project, has applied to the state for a permit to draw water from nearby 15 Mile Creek. (Will there be any left for the trout?)

Here's hoping the state says no.

And here's hoping the governor of Maryland makes a deal with this guy: Take those 1,000 acres in Allegany and make them a gift to the state, for forest or parkland. In return, the state will swing you a nice tax deal on property acquisition in Baltimore or some older suburb. We'll even give you a list of areas begging for redevelopment. You have to commit to building homes with a wide range of styles and prices, so that the tax breaks support housing for a range of income levels. But you can live with that, can't you?

I understand why Allegany officials approved Carnock's plan for Terrapin Run last week. They're just trying to get something going in a county that tied itself to industry years ago - unlike adjoining Garrett County, which remained primarily agricultural - but can't seem to attract new industry.

And maybe it shouldn't. Maybe it was the scattered, smelly industry that kept Allegany from becoming a thriving resort area years ago. Maybe now Allegany is meant to have a smaller population that serves a tourist economy.

If conditions in the North Branch of the Potomac River continue to improve, the area between Westernport and Cumberland should become a fantastic destination, especially for those who like to fish and paddle and do that bed-and-breakfast thing. More hike-and-bike trails in the hickory-and-oak forests will attract Washingtonians and Baltimoreans, the kind who read Outside and Men's Health, for long weekends. Rocky Gap is there, and a Nicklaus-signature golf course. All of that is very appealing and deserving of the state's support.

What's not appealing and deserving of the state's support is Terrapin Run. It promises to be just another eyesore along a highway, a swath of suburbia plunked down in a rural place that should be left open and green. Vast tracts of houses and condos, congested roads and shopping centers - if people of Allegany County want that, I have a suggestion: Move here.

We've got plenty to go around.

StevenW

September 5th, 2005, 08:47 PM

interesting article

PeterSmith

September 5th, 2005, 09:49 PM

I read that article this morning. I am usually not a big fan of Dan Rodrick's, but with this how can you argue. Suburbia has gotten way out of hand. It's a complete waste of resources that could be put to better use. The only reason I could see a large majority of people wanting to move to Allegheny County is fear of crime, which is a viable fear, but I feel the impression is far worse than the reality.

StevenW

September 6th, 2005, 12:33 AM

JAB323

September 6th, 2005, 12:44 AM

Has 300 Eat Pratt Street Been Approved?

Furiine

September 6th, 2005, 02:18 AM

I wish most all people would embrace living in dense urban cities rather than suburban s-p-r-a-w-l.

It's so much more convenient and economical. And I wish that big businesses would start creating and marketing better powered vehicles than oil/gas powered ones.
I know they are starting to intruduce hybrid cars and all, but it's to slow going. We all need to start providing a better environment for us and the next generations to come.
Suburbia just feeds the sprawly, unefficient, car-needy and mindless land wasting.
Yeah, have a few small towns outside of bigger cities, but make sure they have the same concept of growth. NO SPRAWL! :(
That's my rant of the day! :D :rant: :)

A suburb should ideally be a liaison for a bigger city, maybe being an addition to what a center city has to offer. It shouldn't be a case where the nucleus of a city is flushed into the 'burbs. That's not right. You can't stop people from wanting homes with yards and pools, but it should at least be done around a central plan! It shouldn't try to be distanced from the city. But the mentality of sprawl is based around avoiding the woes of the city. Once a reputation is in place, such as bad crime or noise, it's hard to shake off the reputation. I have never even lived in Baltimore, but whenever I'm up close to boarded up buildings and a seedy area, it just doesn't faze me. I wouldn't be prancing around the city like I'm in heaven, but things often aren't as bad as they seem. I really think the problems are magnified such that it makes it seem worse than the way things actually are. I'll probably move to Baltimore once I'm out of college, no matter what the cynics say. Well, one reason is because very few places in MD have affordable housing anymore and also because I've grown warm to the city ever since I've learned more about it. I tell you, I've lived in the Annapolis suburbs for a long time and it grows tiresome. Actually, my precinct isn't that sprawled, it's actually full of nice, dense rowhomes, but much of the surrounding area is too "suburban" for my taste. I swear, if it wasn't for Annapolis the city itself, the whole area would be a mass of suburbia. Well I guess the upside is that it's a small peninsula, so sprawl can't live up to its widespread potential.

Brian21

September 6th, 2005, 02:43 AM

I know I mentioned this earlier but has anyone seen Canton Tower lately? They made one of the tower cranes taller, and it seems they still have a little ways to go on the tower. This building seems like its going to be taller then it was proposed to be. It already looks like its at or about 300 ft tall. :)

robert parsons

September 6th, 2005, 04:01 AM

hey guys as far as light st designs go i like the one on the left more , it goes great with the nations tower and the william donald schaffer tower. last i heard they were still planning to tear down 83 and make it a blvd up to penn station. they were also suppossed to open up the water in the fallsway.

jay130

September 6th, 2005, 04:06 AM

Brian21

September 6th, 2005, 04:12 AM

^Its not official, they were just talking about it several months ago, and it has been quiet since then. :)

scando

September 6th, 2005, 04:25 AM

I wish most all people would embrace living in dense urban cities rather than suburban s-p-r-a-w-l. It's so much more convenient and economical. And I wish that big businesses would start creating and marketing better powered vehicles than oil/gas powered ones.I know they are starting to intruduce hybrid cars and all, but it's to slow going. We all need to start providing a better environment for us and the next generations to come. Suburbia just feeds the sprawly, unefficient, car-needy and mindless land wasting. Yeah, have a few small towns outside of bigger cities, but make sure they have the same concept of growth. NO SPRAWL! :(That's my rant of the day! :D :rant: :)

I've watched this drama all my life and I really think it is a mad cycle. You always seem to have a certain percentage of people who want to live at the edge of the burbs. They move to whatever place is the edge and that "spoils" things for the people that were at the edge (where it was) so those people have to move again. Each cycle leave behind the edgevilles of the past. Since WWII, Edgeville north of Baltimore city has moved from Towson, all of the way to Pennsylvania where it's now colliding with the edgevilles of York PA. I know people who have moved 3 or 4 times in order for that reason and now just seem to be pissy about that evil thing they call "traffic" but don't seem to have a clue as to how much they contribute to it.

What a lot of people, especially from the burbs don't seem to understand is that infill building and rejuvenation of the city works to everybody's advantage. Not only does the city get better, but since population is concentrated, open space is preserved, the suburbanites that fantasize being country folk by going to farm stores, etc, can continue getting what they want for longer and postpone their next move to the next edgeville. Drive times, gas use, general congestion and frustration are all impacted by this. Smart Growth isn't just a conspiracy of egghead planners that want to "stop growth" but it's actually in all of our interests in that it helps us to keep things the way we like them.

CU_rak

September 6th, 2005, 04:47 AM

^^Word.
I think that 75% of the motivation behind suburbia is based on an illusory ideal. The country life. Ahhh, the ease of life in the fresh air, open space, green lawns, and quiet tranquility of the country. Little do people realize that the more they buy into this ideal, the more they contribute to the degradation and disappearance of real open space and natural surroundings. Everyone wants their little piece of the country, and once they get it, they resent other people wanting the same thing in their neighborhood. Please stop the madness! Suburbia is now about traffic, strip malls, SUV's, cookie-cutter houses, and alienation from society. We try to escape the realities of modern life but we are simply recreating them.
:soapbox:

jay130

September 6th, 2005, 06:37 AM

I've watched this drama all my life and I really think it is a mad cycle. You always seem to have a certain percentage of people who want to live at the edge of the burbs. They move to whatever place is the edge and that "spoils" things for the people that were at the edge (where it was) so those people have to move again. Each cycle leave behind the edgevilles of the past. Since WWII, Edgeville north of Baltimore city has moved from Towson, all of the way to Pennsylvania where it's now colliding with the edgevilles of York PA. I know people who have moved 3 or 4 times in order for that reason and now just seem to be pissy about that evil thing they call "traffic" but don't seem to have a clue as to how much they contribute to it.

What a lot of people, especially from the burbs don't seem to understand is that infill building and rejuvenation of the city works to everybody's advantage. Not only does the city get better, but since population is concentrated, open space is preserved, the suburbanites that fantasize being country folk by going to farm stores, etc, can continue getting what they want for longer and postpone their next move to the next edgeville. Drive times, gas use, general congestion and frustration are all impacted by this. Smart Growth isn't just a conspiracy of egghead planners that want to "stop growth" but it's actually in all of our interests in that it helps us to keep things the way we like them.

So true, I love city life and I love the ability to be able to escape to the country when I need a break but that is jeporadized when suburbs and rural areas are overdevelp, I use to live in Owings Mills and that use to be a beautiful area but now its overdeveloped and there is little open space.

SoBoChris

September 6th, 2005, 03:19 PM

Just a few of my thoughts on recent discussions.

I've always lived in the city and always will. I could really care less about what goes on in the "'burbs" They can hoot and holler till the cows come home, which of course will be never since they moved all the farms out.
........................................................................
I can't ever see a day when the lower part of 83 won't be there. It would be a traffic nightmare for people coming and going into the city from there. If, and that's a big "IF" it ever does happen, I'm certain it will be years and years and years away.
........................................................................
The Canton Crossing Tower is HUGE! I see it everywhere!! Coming home from work I see it standing tall from Fort and Riverside Avenues.

Brian21

September 6th, 2005, 03:38 PM

^Whats the official height that Canton Crossing Tower was proposed at? Has to be well over 300 ft. possibly up to 400ft. As SoBoChris said this tower is huge and it can be seen from virtually everywhere :) Is it possible that they've upped the floors quietly.

I can honestly say that I think Canton Tower is the tallest building under construction in Baltimore right now. :)

SoBoChris

September 6th, 2005, 04:19 PM

Eerik

September 6th, 2005, 05:34 PM

I've watched this drama all my life and I really think it is a mad cycle. You always seem to have a certain percentage of people who want to live at the edge of the burbs. They move to whatever place is the edge and that "spoils" things for the people that were at the edge (where it was) so those people have to move again. Each cycle leave behind the edgevilles of the past. Since WWII, Edgeville north of Baltimore city has moved from Towson, all of the way to Pennsylvania where it's now colliding with the edgevilles of York PA. I know people who have moved 3 or 4 times in order for that reason and now just seem to be pissy about that evil thing they call "traffic" but don't seem to have a clue as to how much they contribute to it.

What a lot of people, especially from the burbs don't seem to understand is that infill building and rejuvenation of the city works to everybody's advantage. Not only does the city get better, but since population is concentrated, open space is preserved, the suburbanites that fantasize being country folk by going to farm stores, etc, can continue getting what they want for longer and postpone their next move to the next edgeville. Drive times, gas use, general congestion and frustration are all impacted by this. Smart Growth isn't just a conspiracy of egghead planners that want to "stop growth" but it's actually in all of our interests in that it helps us to keep things the way we like them.
...don't forget the duplication of infrastructure. Each time a new development district reaches capacity, additional resources are needed to build new roads, water and sewer, electrical conduits, schools, etc. The cost of local road widening is expensive enough, but factor the cost of adding a lane to an Interstate...the cost per mile. It's ridiculous.

jay130

September 6th, 2005, 05:42 PM

Hate to ask so many questions, but does anyone know if there are any plans or developments in the works to look at building Baltimore a new Arena and also what the plan is or the Mechanic

cause I was thinking it would be a cool idea to have a waterfront arena similar to what they have in Sydney, but in concept only not in design but I think the waterfront has become so developed they're probably arent to many available parcels around....thoughts on this

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3192/img70mc.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img70mc.jpg)

jay130

September 6th, 2005, 06:17 PM

Random Photos of Baltimore Old and Newer....I had forgotten how much of the city was submerge under water with Isabel and that was no way near as bad as katrina..so I can only imagine the destruction a CAt. 4 hurricane can do to a city

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/2708/locustpoint7kb.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=locustpoint7kb.jpg)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5022/070405h5uq.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=070405h5uq.jpg)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/403/070205a6bc.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=070205a6bc.jpg)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/9501/070405d8le.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=070405d8le.jpg)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5443/pennlightsthumb9pl.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pennlightsthumb9pl.jpg)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/1723/tysonstreet5gt.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tysonstreet5gt.jpg)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8994/flood34io.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flood34io.jpg)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/9743/flood53zz.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flood53zz.jpg)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5360/flood49hf.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flood49hf.jpg)

Brian21

September 6th, 2005, 06:42 PM

^yeah I used to work in fells point. The first floor of my office building had 5 ft of water in it :eek2:

As for a new arena, their was one proposed with the Hackerman Convention Center hotel project but of course when they didn't choose Hackerman's project that also meant no new arena. The new arena would have sat on the parking lots right next to Camden yards, but as you already know thats where that hideous convention center hotel will go. :bash: But I'm confident that we'll get a new aren sometime in the future.

SoBoChris

September 6th, 2005, 07:42 PM

Okay, I'm going to hand type an article from today's Daily Record. Forgive any typos.

Superblock super stalled?

Proposed retail strip for Baltimore's West Side remains in limbo

By Jen DeGregorio
Daily Record Business Writer

On many levels, Baltimore's West Side is thriving: The reopened Hippodrome Theatre is attracting national stage shows. More than 1,500 new apartments have opened to residents since 1999. And the city soon will launch streetscape upgrades on Howard Street.

But sorely lacking is a key part of the West Side that has come to be known as the "superblock," a retail center bordered roughly by Clay, Fayette, Howard and Liberty Streets.

After more than five years, the Baltimore Development Corp. has yet to acquire properties there, keeping the superblock's property owners and buildings in a state of limbo.

Jerald Goldfine, a Philadelphia resident who owns three superblock properties, recently took matters into his own hands when he made the winning bid of $1.5 million at auction for the Lot Stores building at 117-119 W. Lexington Street.

Now, Goldfine is working on plans to convert 31,000 square feet of empty space in the building to apartments and office space. He is even flirting with the idea of opening a health club there.

"We believe in [the West Side's] future and we've shown by example that we want to be there by investing in its future now," Goldfine said.

But his plans are contingent on the BDC's cooperation. The Lot Stores building has been under the threat of condemnation since 2000.

In February, the city named a team of developers charged with revamping that building and other superblock properties. But the BDC hasn't acquired superblock properties via eminent domain, a process whereby the government can take privately owned property for a public use.

Goldfine's company, Carmel Realty Associates, was awarded the right to develop the former McCrory's store building at 117-121 N. Howard Street and 227 and 229 W. Lexington Street. Goldfine said he submitted plans to develop a larger portion of the superblock but was denied.

"Our project continues to be unresolved, because we never finalized it with the BDC," Goldfine said.

The BDC's failure to settle a contract with him has Goldfine suspicious that the BDC has not finalized plans with other developers, either.

BDC President M.J. "Jay" Brodie told The Daily Record in August that his organization is negotiating with developers and will soon finalize plans.

But Goldfine said he has not been privy to those negotiations.

"We've been waiting for them to get back to us as we've been waiting for years," he said.

Now, Goldfine is waiting once more, this time to meet with the BDC about developing the Lot Stores building.

"We are really hoping that BDC will be receptive to us [enlarging] our participation in the West Side," he said.

BDC officials did not return phone calls, but Brodie told The Daily Record after last week's Board of Estimates metting that the BDC would consider new ideas for the Lot Stores building. The board - a five-member panel that includes Mayor Martin O'Malley, City Council President Sheila Dixon and Comptroller Joan Pratt - meets once a week to consider planned expenditures by the city.

Attorney John C. Murphy said the West Side has suffered because of uncertainty about the superblock.

"It's awfully hard on the individual businesses that are remaining because the area right now really looks like a ghost town," he said.

Murphy represented Goldfine and other business owners in a lawsuit last year against the BDC. They alleged that the city's economic development are failed to release information on how it selected developers for the superblock. The Baltimore City Circuit Court case was decided in the BDC's favor in March. Murphy has appealed the ruling.

"Why, in the greatest real estate boom that Baltimore has seen, is the superblock...sitting and it looks like a third world country over there?" Murphy asked The Daily Record in an interview last month.

"Nothing happens. That's the mystery," he said.

jaysonjaz

September 6th, 2005, 08:04 PM

Thanks for handtyping that! Interesting article :)

waj0527

September 6th, 2005, 09:47 PM

I was forced to detour through the Superblock today. That whole area certainly has potential. I hope that potential is realized soon.

JAB323

September 6th, 2005, 10:03 PM

I Wish tey would hurry up and give us some info on saint regis tower, I heard somewhere that it could be 56 floors :eek2:

Brian21

September 6th, 2005, 10:39 PM

yeah I'm very anxious to hear about the St. Regis project too. 56 flrs would be awesome, but I say what the heck push it up 4 more flrs and make it an even 60 :)

StevenW

September 7th, 2005, 12:18 AM

Superblock super stalled?

http://www.mddailyrecord.com/newspics/superblock.jpg

StevenW

September 7th, 2005, 12:21 AM

56 floor St. Regis? :? :? :?

Where did you get that info?

JAB323

September 7th, 2005, 01:50 AM

I saw 56 on some website i found on a search engine, and then in a couple other forums there were some guys talking about being 40-60, somewhere in there :bash:

StevenW

September 7th, 2005, 02:07 AM

Well, if it's 56 stories then I'd be pretty happy. That might put it around 600 ft. tall, maybe. But, just to be a bit greedy, I'll say make it 70 stories and over 700 ft. tall! ;) :D

MasonsInquiries

September 7th, 2005, 02:42 AM

Either the tower has quietly grown higher than planned, or its sitting on land that's higher in elevation.

If you go to the Canton Crossing website, there is a link to a slideshow with the progress of the tower. The last slide was taken on August 4th, so it isn't the most up to date, but still, its something. Here's the link:

http://www.cantoncrossing.com/slideshow/index.html

yeah, i drove by there today. it's gotta' be more than just 20 floors. maybe they're just making the ceilings higher or something.....lol. i'm so revved up about this canton crossing project that i sometimes just drive by there & just vision it myself. you can see it all the way from 395 coming into the city. i was really in shock. but i think the best part of that canton crossing project is going to be when the midtown condominiums are built right next to the 1st mariner tower. i think it's going to be something like 28 or 29 floors.

MasonsInquiries

September 7th, 2005, 02:56 AM

56 floor St. Regis? :? :? :?

Where did you get that info?

if baltimore ever got a 56-story tower, i would literally hit the floor. that would definitely be something.

StevenW

September 7th, 2005, 04:05 AM

yes it would.

StevenW

September 7th, 2005, 11:10 AM

"For sale: swanky life in the sky"
:)

After a decade spent creating his ultimate bachelor penthouse pad, bank executive, developer and Baltimore Blast owner Ed Hale is ready to move on and trade even higher up.
By Jill Rosen
Sun Staff
Originally published September 7, 2005

In the lobby of the Anchorage Towers in Canton, someone's swept the coins at the bottom of a burbling fountain into the shape of an anchor.

Clearly that's not where Ed Hale's been throwing his money.

Fourteen flights up in the penthouse, Hale, chief executive officer of 1st Mariner Bank, developer and owner of the Baltimore Blast professional soccer team, has used more than a little of his spare change to create a swank bachelor pad with breathtaking views of the city he has literally worked his way to the top of.

But Hale wants to cash out and trade up. To move just feet down Boston Street into the top of a 17-story office tower he's building there, Hale is selling the condo he spent a decade molding to fit his definition of man-about-town luxury.

At an asking price of $2.275 million, the property is the fourth-most-expensive for sale in Baltimore.

"My mom says to me, 'Eddie, why move? Your place is so beautiful, and you only have to drive a mile,'" the entrepreneur says, playfully imitating a worried, maternal tone.

His answer? Because I can, Ma.

And because the new place will be bigger, better, grander -- some of Hale's favorite adjectives and vocabulary words he must have mastered while designing and furnishing his spacious Anchorage quarters.

Behold the custom woodwork, the furniture, rugs and accessories from all corners of the globe.

Behold the art, pastoral paintings in thick, gilded frames that cover nearly every available inch of wall space.

Behold the relentlessly masculine palette, the cognac leathers and dusky walls that evoke an Englishman's library and cleverly mask whatever remains of Hale's Highlandtown patois.

"People think being born in Highlandtown and raised in Edgemere that I'm a wild man and my pedigree's not good," says Hale, who is 58. "But I've always had conservative taste. Always."

The penthouse's least conservative feature is also its most coveted: the view.

It's sheer extravagance, this sweeping Baltimore panorama that Hale's vantage point allows. While most city residents thrill to glimpse specks of skyline or water from rooftop decks, nearly the entire city bows before Hale's two balconies.

The neon lettering of Domino Sugar, M&T Bank Stadium, downtown's skyscrapers and the brick- and Formstone-lined streets of Fells Point and Canton -- all his for the taking.

"I never get tired of it," Hale says. "Whoever comes here is gonna have the same feeling."

Prestigious address
Hale moved into the Anchorage in 1996. He snagged the unit for $500,000 from Baltimore developer Louis Grasmick, who reserved the penthouse for himself when he built the tower but never lived in it. Hale bid anonymously, figuring, "Every time somebody like me tries to buy a place, they jack the price up."
At the time, before pricey townhouses crowded the shoreline, the building, aside from HarborView tower in South Baltimore, was probably the most prestigious waterfront address.

Yet Hale says the condo he bought was a mess, thanks to young renters who had "trashed it." He also found cheap fixtures, an awkward layout and a bathroom the color of a little girl's lollipop.

"Garish would be the word," he says, joking that he had to rip the "monster hot-pink hot tub" out in a hurry before anyone from the old neighborhood saw and "got the wrong idea."

The only assumption one could glean these days from the penthouse is that testosterone guided its design, an amalgam of Field & Stream, GQ and Buckingham Palace sensibilities.

"It's pretty much my taste," Hale says after a quick walk through its two-story, 3,800-square-foot, three-bedroom, 3 1/2 -bath expanse.

The silly pink tub?

He replaced it with a sleek, black marble, accented it with gold fixtures and strategically hung a few paintings of nudes nearby.

Though the master bedroom isn't huge, a mirrored wall makes it seem more so. The 20-foot living room ceilings need no such amplification.

International decor
Souvenirs from Hale's travels spice up the living areas. A cloisonne vase from Hong Kong. A screen from Japan. A weathered sideboard from Denmark. Rugs everywhere.
"I see things I like and buy them," Hale says matter-of-factly.

It probably wasn't purposeful, but the kitchen screams "bachelor" louder than any room in the house.

Though his real estate agent calls it "gourmet," any cook worth his salt would sniff over the electric stove, the modest cabinet space, the absence of any bells or whistles that Emeril Lagasse would deem worth a "bam."

Glass-fronted cabinets spill the secrets -- cans of soup and tuna, an assortment of dried spaghetti and box after box of Stove Top stuffing.

But after a hard day of wheeling and dealing, when he settles in for the evening with perhaps a nice bowl of Progresso chicken noodle, one room in the house draws Hale like no other.

It's the cozy TV nook, with its leather armchairs, brass nautical accessories, a couple of stuffed mallards perched on the maroon walls. Suspense novels by John Grisham and Tom Clancy fill the bookshelves, and a pair of 20-pound barbells rest on a wool carpet.

In here, sitting at the scratched leather-top table, is where Hale feels most creative; where, in solitude, he has rounded out concepts for everything from Canton Crossing to the Maryland Business Council.

Despite the penthouse's assets -- and whatever intangible bragging rights come from buying a business mogul's place -- it has spent a lonely six months on the market. In all that time, Hale's agent Bonnie Fleck has shown it seven times.

Fleck guesses that's because she has tried to keep quiet the fact that it's Ed Hale's place.

"You don't want people coming just to see what the place is like," she says. "You know, most people in Baltimore want to know about Ed Hale -- what he does and how he lives."

But because Hale wants the transaction tidied up by May so he can move cleanly into the new place, they're getting more aggressive. The ad's going national, Fleck's hired someone to build a Web site (www.baltimorepenthouse.com), and they've cut the price a bit -- it's down from $2.5 million.

Fleck also knows the space isn't for everyone. "It takes the right person for this type of property," she says. Maybe an executive. Maybe a doctor. Maybe someone from Washington or New York who won't sweat when they hear how much it costs.

What Hale and Fleck are hoping for is a Leroy Merritt.

Merritt, a local developer and self-proclaimed "house-aholic," drove this spring to an auction for the famed Sherwood Mansion in Guilford. After looking over the property for an hour, he bought it for $2.52 million.

Told recently about the penthouse and how Hale wants him to swoop in and buy it, Merritt just chuckled, saying, "So they want someone crazy?"

JAB323

September 7th, 2005, 09:10 PM

Yeah It's Pretty Hard to miss 1st Mariner Bank Building if you're in the city, I would be really amazed if they added floors, I'd be willing to bet that, it's either higher ceilings, where it sits, the elevation of the land or something like that, can't wait until the whole canton crossing project is complete

Furiine

September 7th, 2005, 09:56 PM

Is the crown of Canton Crossing beginning to take shape or is the "main bulk" of the building still being bult?

SoBoChris

September 7th, 2005, 10:13 PM

Is the crown of Canton Crossing beginning to take shape or is the "main bulk" of the building still being bult?

I believe, though don't hold me to it, the crown is beginning to take shape. From what I saw on Monday, it appeared that way to me, so "topping out" shouldn't be too far removed from now.

Brian21

September 7th, 2005, 11:02 PM

^ yeah I agree the crown is beginning to take shape. However the tower does look taller than proposed. As JAB323 said it could be because it sits on elevated land, or the floors are higher, or either they quietly increased the flrs, but all in all this tower looks like it will be between 350-400ft tall :) . I can't wait till they start on the apartment towers. When are they going to begin on those anyway?

Guys correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like once Canton Crossing with 1st Mariner Tower, and the four 28-30 flr apartment towers are complete Baltimore will have yet another skyline. :)

seanlax5

September 7th, 2005, 11:08 PM

seems like the rest of the country might actually pay attention and put baltimore on their maps, like the weather channel... :runaway:

StevenW

September 7th, 2005, 11:17 PM

according to the article above the tower is still just 17 stories tall. I guess each flor may well be 15 to 16 ft. per floor though. :) That still makes a tall building. :D Well over 300 ft. tall!

StevenW

September 7th, 2005, 11:22 PM

BTW, this link is not working for me: http://www.baltimorepenthouse.com)/

How about you guys? :?

JAB323

September 7th, 2005, 11:59 PM

You gotta take out the )

StevenW

September 8th, 2005, 12:14 AM

yeah, I just figured out what it was.... :crazy:

StevenW

September 8th, 2005, 10:59 AM

An upper-deck, London-style view of Baltimore's tourist attractions

Hop-off, hop-on bus rides set for downtown, beyond
By M. William Salganik
Sun Staff
Originally published September 8, 2005

Now, it will be possible to get an upper-deck view of Baltimore without buying a ticket for the Orioles or Ravens.

The Greater Baltimore Committee is scheduled to unveil this morning a hop-off, hop-on tourist loop service to be plied by signature double-decker London transit buses with their tops sheared off. The bus route will connect the Inner Harbor to attractions outside of downtown.

Baltimore will become the second U.S. operation for the Big Bus Co., which operates in Philadelphia, as well as London and Dubai.

Donald C. Fry, president of the GBC, said his business group had been hearing for years that "the harbor is obviously a great tourist venue, but there are so many places in the city not tied directly to the harbor."

The buses will link to the Baltimore Museum of Art and the Maryland Zoo in Baltimore to the north, the B&O Railroad Museum and the Babe Ruth Museum to the west and Little Italy and Fells Point to the east.

"It's great news - the tourism industry has been waiting for this for a long time," said Nancy Hinds, vice president of public affairs for the Baltimore Area Convention and Visitors Association, one of the sponsoring advertisers for Big Bus.

Because the bus provides a narrated tour and point-to-point transportation, "it's also a marketing tool for the hospitality industry," Hinds said.

In its effort to launch a tourist loop, Fry said, the GBC several years ago consulted the Maryland Transit Administration, which operates public buses but decided not to offer the service.

Then, one day about 18 months ago, Fry was in Philadelphia and saw the double-decker in operation. Fry said he and zoo President Elizabeth "Billie" Grieb met with Big Bus initially. Then, GBC made it an attractive proposition for Big Bus by helping line up other potential advertisers, including the National Aquarium in Baltimore, Harborplace, Port Discovery and a hotel trade group.

"Baltimore is at the point Philadelphia was five years ago - it needs something to pull it together on the tourism side," said Jim McDonald, vice president of product development for Big Bus USA. He said Big Bus, which has been operating in London for 15 years, has been looking to expand in the United States.

He said Baltimore will start with two or three buses, which were shuttling tourists around the streets of London until being shipped here a few weeks ago. The Philadelphia operation, which began with two or three buses three years ago, has 20 vehicles in its fleet, he said.

"They've broken a few tree branches, but other that that, it's great," said Cara Schneider, media relations director for the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corp.

She said she did not think the double-deckers drew more tourists to Philadelphia, but they might have helped some attractions outside the city's downtown.

She said the Big Bus and amphibious duck tours arrived there about the same time. Both commercial operations have been successful enough to expand their service and attract competing fleets of double-decker buses and duck tours, Schneider said.

Baltimore, too, has a duck fleet. Ed Green, Baltimore director of Ride the Ducks, said he was not sure whether Big Bus would have an impact on his five-duck flock. The ducks offer an 80-minute tour, but they do not go farther north than Mount Vernon and do not offer a hop-off option.

A Big Bus ticket is good for 24 hours of getting on and off the bus. It will cost $25 for adults, $22 for senior citizens and students, and $10 for children ages 4 to 14. Children younger than 4 can ride free.

Service will begin Saturday, with initial operating hours from 9:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. During the winter, the schedule might be cut to weekends only.

McDonald said the fall start "gives us an opportunity to do a dry run, and put together advertising and marketing" before expanding operations next spring as the tourist season resumes.

Copyright © 2005, The Baltimore Sun | Get Sun home delivery

StevenW

September 8th, 2005, 11:01 AM

Aiming high downtown: transportation with a view

Cable cars would glide up to 95 feet above streets
By John Fritze
Sun Staff
Originally published September 8, 2005

Baltimore isn't known for its skiing, and tourists don't flock to the Inner Harbor for snow-capped mountains. But two entrepreneurs are looking past the obvious and toward the sky. They're looking for ski lifts.

They see eight-person cable cars soaring up to 95 feet above city streets. They picture sightseers and commuters, their faces pressed against Plexiglas windows for a view. They think, with a little luck, that a ski-lift style gondola might be the next big thing in urban transit.

Crazy? Maybe. Maybe not.

Baltimore brothers Trey and Peter Winstead are getting attention - and money - for their three-year-old dream of stringing a cable-car system a little more than a mile, from the Baltimore Convention Center to the western edge of Fells Point.

The $30 million project - the latest in a long line of transit ideas proposed for the area -could ease downtown traffic, the Winsteads say, and provide a respite for tired tourists. At 12 mph, the high-wire trip would take 6 1/2 minutes.

Gondolas would stop at the end of Thames Street, Pier Six, the World Trade Center and the Convention Center. The brothers envision a $6 day pass.

"This idea was a pipe dream," said Peter Winstead, 27, who describes himself as the one who grounds in reality his brother's out-there ideas. "But we also thought maybe it could work. While it's not the typical way to do transportation in urban environments, it could really pay off."

Last month, the city Board of Estimates sponsored a $38,000 state grant for the Winstead brothers to study potential ridership for the enclosed, climate-controlled cars.

Construction costs would be raised from private investors, the brothers said.

A similar system shuttles tourists from Manhattan to Roosevelt Island in New York City, and Philadelphia has poured the foundation for a lift that would run to Camden, N.J., though that project has been stalled for years.

The Baltimore Lift, as the Winsteads call it, would be distinctive in its style and in the mix of tourists and commuters its creators would hope to attract. Twenty-two towers would hold the cable and 97 cars aloft.

"It's long overdue," said Bob Brown, 48, a Hyatt Regency sales manager who lives in Baltimore. "Of course there would be people willing to use it."

Even if Baltimoreans accept a downtown cable car system, the approval of a bevy of planning and transportation officials - which ones is not clear - would be required.

Baltimore's zoning code, not surprisingly, is silent on gondolas.

Questions remain about the design of the supporting towers and who would inspect the system. Also unclear is what would happen if people chose not to ride.

"I think we'd use it because we're tourists, but if I lived here I don't think I'd be digging it," said Greg Hawkes, 48, a Yorktown, Va., resident, as he walked with his family near the Inner Harbor's Power Plant.

"It could be kind of an eyesore."

Assessing the system's feasibility and potential use, which the Winstead brothers are doing now, is critical, said Andrew Frank, executive vice president of Baltimore Development Corp.

"It's a very intriguing idea as a way of moving people east to west in a short time period," said Frank, whose agency supported awarding the grant.

Before the BDC spends money on a gondola system or even backs the concept, Frank said, the Winsteads must show that it can be built and can draw riders, overcoming the skepticism resulting from elaborate transit ideas proposed for the harbor that have failed.
City officials pitched an elevated "people mover" during the 1970s, but the plan fizzled when funding ran dry. A similar idea came and went in the early 1990s when Oriole Park at Camden Yards opened.

But the Winstead brothers, nephews of former state Transportation Secretary David Winstead, are determined to build the system in Baltimore, and their sales pitch attempts to refute some of the criticisms.

A gondola, they say, would cost less to build and to operate - about $3 million a year - than the cumbersome elevated-track proposals of the past. and, unlike a monorail, a cable car has no visible horizontal structure to obstruct views.

The cable, from a distance, would be all but invisible. The system would run on an 800-horsepower electric motor and would be quiet and emission-free.

Baltimore architect Klaus Philipsen said gondolas have a chance in Baltimore and elsewhere. Philipsen, who founded the firm ArchPlan, said people shouldn't dismiss it just because the idea didn't come from a government office.

"It could be done in a way that would not disturb the skyline, and that would be rather attractive," said Philipsen who, with other members of Baltimore's chapter of the American Institute of Architects, reviewed the proposal this year.

"I would recommend that one takes it seriously."

Detroit, Syracuse, N.Y., and Portland, Ore., are considering similar gondola systems.

Peter Winstead, who works for a commercial real estate developer, said he and his brother devised the proposal after they moved to downtown Baltimore in 2002. They were taking long, expensive cab rides between Fells Point and Federal Hill, and they were sick of it.

"We were finding ourselves driving everywhere to get anywhere," he said. "There's got to be a better way to do this."

Trey Winstead, a 30-year-old construction project manager and civil engineer, wrote his senior thesis at Vanderbilt University on cable transportation.

As their idea took shape, the brothers contacted a leading ski-lift manufacturer, Leitner-Poma of America Inc. Representatives of the Colorado-based company who have visited Baltimore say the project is doable.

"It's still public transportation, but without the inconvenience of the crowds," said Leitner-Poma's Alain Lazard. "It doesn't use the street. It doesn't have to stop at red lights."

And cable cars are safe, he said, running reliably on snowy, windy mountainsides. Cables are replaced every six to seven years, Lazard said, and are checked throughout the day for wear with magnetic sensors.

Before the Winsteads can begin thinking too seriously about the nuts and bolts, they must be sure they would have a steady stream of customers. Recently proposed downtown development, they said, is one factor that could help their project maintain momentum.

At one end of the proposed route, city officials are hoping to build a $305 million convention center hotel. At the other, private builders are looking at vacant land on the edge of Fells Point, particularly the former Allied Signal plant.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Well, comments anyone? :D

:)

StevenW

September 8th, 2005, 11:03 AM

http://www.mddailyrecord.com/newspics/bigredbus.jpg

Double-decker buses coming to downtown Baltimore>

Double-decker buses, once only a pleasure for tourists in London, have made their way to Baltimore.
-KARA KRIDLER

and...

Baltimore conventions get big boost
The agency responsible for attracting visitors to Baltimore signed a two-year convention deal that is expected to bring a total of more than $40 million in direct visitor spending.

-KARA KRIDLER

StevenW

September 8th, 2005, 11:10 AM

Double-decker bus service to begin in Baltimore
Julekha Dash
Staff
Those double-decker buses synonymous with the city of London will soon make their debut in Baltimore.

London's the Big Bus Co. will begin operation Saturday, taking tourists to attractions throughout the city in Little Italy, Fells Point, Mount Vernon, Charles Village and Druid Hill Park.

The addition will address a perennial problem that has vexed tourism operators in Baltimore: the lack of transportation for tourists to make their way to attractions located away from the Inner Harbor.

The buses will include live tour guides who direct visitors to Baltimore attractions and restaurants. It will operate on a continuous one-hour loop from 9:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. Those hours will be curtailed during winter months.

Big Bus, which operates its tour service in Philadelphia, will charge $25 for adults, $22 for students and $10 for children between the ages of four and 12. Riders will be able to hop on and hop off the bus for that price during a 24-hour period. The bus will take visitors close to more than 30 attractions, including the National Aquarium in Baltimore, the Washington Monument, the Baltimore Museum of Art, and Camden Yards.

The Greater Baltimore Committee, which works to improve Baltimore's business climate, helped the bus company develop an operating plan and recruit 14 initial sponsors, which include Comcast Corp., M&T Bank Corp., and the Maryland Zoo in Baltimore.

waj0527

September 8th, 2005, 01:40 PM

http://www.mddailyrecord.com/newspics/bigredbus.jpg

Thats actually pretty damn cool. I like it a lot. Dubai, London, Philly and Baltimore.

jay130

September 8th, 2005, 03:22 PM

Gsol

September 8th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Gsol

September 8th, 2005, 04:03 PM

Sorry to waste a post, but clicked on the wrong button and there is no way to void the error.

scando

September 8th, 2005, 05:06 PM

A few months ago The Sun ran a story about streetcars running up Charles Street to connect downtown with the BMA. I suggested these buses would be a quicker and less costly alternative. They also offer the flexibility to alter routes or quickly add new ones. They are very popular in New York. I am glad to see they will be on Baltimore's streets soon.

Their imposing visibility will attract riders as the streetcars were supposed to do.

The cable cars are a risky venture, the cars pose a danger - remember the balloon ride? Do you want to get stuck 95' above Pratt St. swaying in some flimsy cramped car with seven other people? A better way to get around downtown is to get the Red Line built.

A short fix is to upgrade the water taxi system into a dependable commuter operation. Actually, I thought this was in the works. Wasn't a franchise awarded for the operation of a regularly scheduled sytem. Weren't they supposed to coordinate with the MTA?

All of a sudden, a proliferation of edgy, iffy, short-line transit options...The double decker buses sound good and more doable than the street cars, but the $25 per day price is rediculous. In all my many trips to NYC, I have never ridden those buses there because of the price, in spite of all the guys out on the sidewalk that do everything short of abduct you and force you onto them. They're about $35 there while an all-day subway ticket is $7. The water taxis are charging $8 per day; will the buses be 3 times better? Again, using MTA in the same area is $3.50 per day and due to the short distance, not a bad ride.

On the cable cars, the same design has been used safely for decades in Euro mountain resorts; it has been quite reliable.

In the meantime we also have those "duck-boats" that drive around with all the quacking tourists; even they are cheaper than the proposed double deckers.

I think the water taxis are supposed to eventually coordinate with MTA so there is a substitute for bad weather. The other thing they were required to do immediately is have a weather notification on every boat.

jaysonjaz

September 8th, 2005, 05:32 PM

Baltimore's zoning code, not surprisingly, is silent on gondolas.

Funny!

I like the Gondola idea a lot. I do worry that it has the potential to be an eyesore, but I think when its all said and done, we'll appriciate the addition it makes to the skyline. They are a much more reasonable price as well. $6 for all day is do-able for even us cheap Baltimoreans. I would use it all the time if they cut it down to $2 one way.

As far as buses go. I also think they're a good idea, but just a bit pricey. Obviously if they have sucessful opperations in London and Philly, they have an idea of what touists will pay for that service. I guess its not too bad if you think of how much you would pay to take a taxi from point to point. It still leaves us locals looking for a viable trasit option.

I say bring on the street-cars

jaysonjaz

September 8th, 2005, 05:35 PM

A short fix is to upgrade the water taxi system into a dependable commuter operation. Actually, I thought this was in the works. Wasn't a franchise awarded for the operation of a regularly scheduled sytem. Weren't they supposed to coordinate with the MTA?

It seems like to me they consolidated into one company and raised their prices. I would like a cheap one way or round trip fare. I don't need to ride a water taxi all day long. I just need an easy way to get from Federal Hill to Canton or Fells Point and back again. As long as the round trip price is higher than the cost of parking, most people will not use these services.

Gsol

September 8th, 2005, 06:16 PM

A problem with the Baltimore water taxis operation is that the boats are too small, they are not up to a commuter standard. New York has recently iniated a water taxi service that serves midtown and lower Manhattan, with service to the Brooklyn waterfront. These boats are about the size of a double decker bus. They are used by tourists and some commuters. It's a bit pricey, between $5-$15, each way, depending on the lenght of ride.

I think something like this can work, but the boats need to be brought up to standard. The Baltimore waterfront is ripe for this type of operation, circuitous routing can serve Ft. Mchenry, Federal Hill, downtown, Fells Point and Canton. If done right it could alleviate traffic and be quite a nice peacful ride.

PeterSmith

September 8th, 2005, 09:04 PM

Hey all. Looks like a lot has been happening in Baltimore since I was last at the forum. I just moved over to England for a semester and haven't had internet access. They have me living in a place with NO ELECTRICTY! But on a couple of issues.

Glad to hear Canton Crossing is looking good. It's been a long time since a building in Baltimore impressed us in the end rather than let us down. Is Canton Crossing really going to include four 20-28 story condo towers? I thought it was just one.

As for the double decker buses, I still prefer the idea of a cable car. A cable car gives the impression of more permanent development, and will more likely be used by all people, residents and tourists alike, and therefore cheaper. A double decker bus would be an improvement on those Duck trucks they have driving around the city now though, quacking everywhere.

Also, about the pictures I promised everyone, I'll try my best to get them online ASAP, but without a home computer that might be hard. Anyhow, good to see a lot is going on. And I hope even more will happen before the next time I get to a computer.

Take care, everyone.

JAB323

September 8th, 2005, 09:38 PM

jaysonjaz

September 8th, 2005, 09:44 PM

I was wondering if anyone knew if there is a Greater D.C. section, but since I'm here I'll post my question. has anyone heard about the ripley street housing building in Silver Spring. A couple reports including emporis saidit was an approved 33 floor building, well over 300 feet, any info would be appreciated, I'll go look myself too :runaway:

The DC forum is right down from ours in the Northeast and Midatlantic thread

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=206767

I know nothing of Silver Spring

StevenW

September 9th, 2005, 12:31 AM

I was wondering if anyone knew if there is a Greater D.C. section, but since I'm here I'll post my question. has anyone heard about the ripley street housing building in Silver Spring. A couple reports including emporis saidit was an approved 33 floor building, well over 300 feet, any info would be appreciated, I'll go look myself too :runaway:

Yeah, emporis is all I found.... :(

http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/nc/ne/?id=101165

MasonsInquiries

September 9th, 2005, 01:24 AM

jaysonjaz

September 9th, 2005, 03:14 AM

i mean, the BDC has already talked about extending the subway system significantly with NEW red, purple, blue, yellow, green, and orange lines that would pretty much cover the entire mass of the city

Ok.. you can wait for that and maybe your children will get to ride the orange line. As for me, I'd like something that works now. These guys can get this thing built in less than a year and at a fraction of the cost.

If it sucks and is a total failure, it can easily be torn down and packed up. If it works, then we'll finally have a fixed east west mass transit thats affordable and noteworthy

MasonsInquiries

September 9th, 2005, 03:36 AM

Ok.. you can wait for that and maybe your children will get to ride the orange line. As for me, I'd like something that works now. These guys can get this thing built in less than a year and at a fraction of the cost.

If it sucks and is a total failure, it can easily be torn down and packed up. If it works, then we'll finally have a fixed east west mass transit thats affordable and noteworthy

but it's the LOOKS of it, jaysonjaz. just look at it. it looks like a clothesline with revolving clothes hanging in someone's back yard. it truly looks hideous. c'mon now. Ya' gotta agree with me here.

http://www.baltimorelift.com/images/index/left.jpg

but i would definitely wait the 10-12 years for the NEW subway system to be built. atleast this way, my trips throughout the city would be 10 times safer.

Furiine

September 9th, 2005, 04:15 AM

It's a conceptual drawing, though, not a set in stone look. It's always bound to be redesigned and it could likely look somewhat different from that. If the wires are staightened and don't assume the hyperbolic/catenary, power-line look, it may end up looking more like an elevated light rail. The only major difference being that the tram cars aren't touching a ground rail and aren't long like trains.. The problem is, though, it may be harder to keep the wires suspended without having a catenary shape, so it would be more noticeable if it were to have the sagging power line look...

I'm also thinking that, in a day where gas prices are high and there isn't enough immediate money to fund more heavy rail construction, you have to go with what is both functional and cost-effective. They can work around the aesthetics, the main part of the project is to make it functional as a mass transit network.

scando

September 9th, 2005, 04:23 AM

The BDC can't be serious about this project. they just can't. this would become the biggest joke that baltimore's inner harbor has ever known. i thought it was an absolutely BAD idea then, and i think it's an even WORSE idea now. it really would make the harbor look cluttered and SUPERtacky. what's the direct purpose for this? i mean, the BDC has already talked about extending the subway system significantly with NEW red, purple, blue, yellow, green, and orange lines that would pretty much cover the entire mass of the city traveling-wise. this cable project would become a MAJOR laugher if built. it just doesn't fit in.

It may not be all that crazy. It isn't really a replacement for rapid transit but a novelty and supplement like water taxis that is specific to a relatively small location. The BDC and the GBC can talk and release studies all they want but they don't have billions to spend on subways. The only thing under serious consideration now is the red line (probably Bus Rapid Transit, not subway) and that will be one line that goes east to west, blocks from the waterfront. It it happens it is still about 10 years out. Other lines are pretty far removed in time and quite hypothetical. Baltimore will never have a credible transit system as long as they wait for the State and Federal govts to fund billion dollar systems; we'll all be either old or dead before that happens. There has to be a better, cheaper, faster solution to moving people. This might be worth a try. Relatively little invested but a big possible gain.

jay130

September 9th, 2005, 04:30 AM

I dont know that it is really the answer though, I mean at full capacity the lifts arent going to be able to transport massive amount of people from one point to another and in addition I have to agree if they dont deviate by much from the conceptual drawing its going to look super tacky

SoBoChris

September 9th, 2005, 04:37 AM

Eerik

September 9th, 2005, 07:09 AM

StevenW

September 9th, 2005, 10:56 AM

The price to ride the double-decker buses is way to expensive. They should cut the price in half, (at least), in order to fill to capacity relatively quicker than just waiting around and begging tourists to pay the exorbitant prices and waiting much much longer to fill.

As for the gondalas, well, strickly for tourism, I'd say go ahead a give it a try, (as long as they pick a decent route and design. I mean, really, you can't seriously believe that the gondalas could or should be used for a "mass transit" of any kind. I mean, it's a novel way for tourists, (or locals, every now and again), to get around the Harbor to take in some views and rest a while from all that walking through-out the Harbor area.

As for the Canton Tower, I agree it is an optical illusion. Nothing else there, (until the condo towers are built near it), is anywhere near as tall or massive as this newly constructed tower. AND the floor-to-ceiling ratio is a MAJOR factor too considering it's an office tower. But having said that, it still is a nice looking optical illusion. ;)

scando

September 9th, 2005, 01:07 PM

The Canton Crossing tower is getting close to topped out. Looking out my window from a couple miles away as I write, it appears that the steel being erected now will be the cap of the building that is seen in the pictures. In perspective, looking out at the landscape in that area, everything else is low and flat, mostly row houses. The other most conspicuous building on that part of the horizon is the Natty Boh building, which from my view, looks taller than CC (at least Mr Boh's wink is higher). Neither are all that tall in the great scheme of tall buildings but both tower over their 2 and 3 storey neighbors.

NewBaltimore1980

September 9th, 2005, 01:58 PM

I’ll throw in my two-cents worth:

Double-decker buses
Tourists. At the rates proposed to fund this venue, not one local Baltimorean will seriously use the buses as a means of mass transit. Too expensive!

Gondolas
Same thing. Aside from their aesthetic appeal, or lack thereof, they will be too expensive for the locals to use as transportation. If the tourists want to use them, fine; but I agree, tacky would be an understatement.

Canton Crossing
The height factor is a result of optical illusion. (Ever notice how the moon looks huge on the horizon?) There is nothing else nearly as tall as the tower in the immediate area, so it dwarfs the entire area. The site is what, not more than five feet above the water table? So it isn’t topography that makes it stand out. It’s the floor to ceiling ratio.

Jones Falls Expressway Demolition
South of Chase Street. Not this year, but next year, look for funding in the five-year development program the city publishes. Feasibility studies are being conducted, and the area targeted has not been renovated nor refurbished. All of that construction is north of Chase Street.

Pride of Baltimore II
I read in the BBC and saw it again in the Sun that the Pride of Baltimore II was in a bit of a mishap. Apparently a squall snapped the two masts of the ship during a race from England to Spain. The ship was severely damaged. Costs of repairs are in the $200-275,000 range.

1. Double Decker Buses are not meant to be for mass transit, they are made for tourists to see parts of Baltimore that are not normally seen. They provide a safe means of transportation to go to some of the Baltimore attractions that normally are not accessible by tourists because of the crime in the area. I am actually amazed that Big Bus thinks Baltimore is a good location for this and hope it connects the zoo and JHU (art museum) to the Harbor. Tourists will pay $20 to get on this bus, I did it in London, New York, Washington, Paris. To be honest, I will probably do it in Baltimore because even as a resident, I have not seen all the tourist attractions in the city.

2. This is a tacky idea that these guys got money from because they must be friends with some congressman. No one is going to use this for mass transit (and that is not the purpose). It will turn the harbor into an amusement park. However, if its going to bring money into the city and additional tourist, then go ahead and build it.

waj0527

September 9th, 2005, 02:17 PM

Yeah...the gondolas pretty much suck. Maybe for another city or even another section of this city, but not right next to City Center and over the Inner Harbor.

I'd be so pissed off if Baltimore approved this crap.

Gsol

September 9th, 2005, 03:55 PM

waj0527

September 9th, 2005, 04:15 PM

I dont know if you guys know or not, but the DuBurns Center has been opened as an intake center for displaced residents of New Orleans.

jaysonjaz

September 9th, 2005, 04:35 PM

I am getting ticked off at the city and state's wasting of limited monetary resources on projects of dubious benfit. The dedication, I believe, of $300k for an amusement park ride (gondolas) and, as I read today, 21mil bucks to bail out the racetrack industry are examples of such financial extravagances. Let the horses gallop out of town and put gondolas in ski resorts and canivals.

This city vitally needs to build public transit infrastructure so that residents and tourists alike can ciculate around the city. If Baltimore truly wants to attract more residents and workers in the CBD, then they better invest in a means to get people to their jobs. The streets are near capacity and enough space is dedicated to parking cars.

It's time to stop dancing around this issue. Politicos should get serious about public transportation for ALL uses and forget about carnivals rides and needless subsidies for passe industries, such as horse racing.

I agree that we need to work out our public transit issues, but $300K is an absolute bargain. The city is willing to spend $300 million on a city owned hotel, so that amount is just a teeny tiny drop in the bucket. If it solves any transit issues it will be worth it.

It really surprises me how many of you are against this. Am I the only one who is really for it?

SoBoChris

September 9th, 2005, 05:45 PM

I agree that we need to work out our public transit issues, but $300K is an absolute bargain. The city is willing to spend $300 million on a city owned hotel, so that amount is just a teeny tiny drop in the bucket. If it solves any transit issues it will be worth it.

It really surprises me how many of you are against this. Am I the only one who is really for it?

I think you must be! I hate it!! This is for tourist. It isn't in any way going to improve public transit. Those things just aren't equipped to handle the volume. I could see this sorta thing in Las Vegas where there's already an amusement park atmosphere, but not Baltimore. It would be an eyesore, and most certainly not amusing to the people who'd be forced to look at it everyday.

SoBoChris

September 9th, 2005, 07:06 PM

ps. I say take the 300k and put it towards finally starting work on renovating Charles Center Plaza! That project has been on hold for years and years.

jay130

September 9th, 2005, 07:27 PM

I am getting ticked off at the city and state's wasting of limited monetary resources on projects of dubious benfit. The dedication, I believe, of $300k for an amusement park ride (gondolas) and, as I read today, 21mil bucks to bail out the racetrack industry are examples of such financial extravagances. Let the horses gallop out of town and put gondolas in ski resorts and canivals.

This city vitally needs to build public transit infrastructure so that residents and tourists alike can ciculate around the city. If Baltimore truly wants to attract more residents and workers in the CBD, then they better invest in a means to get people to their jobs. The streets are near capacity and enough space is dedicated to parking cars.

It's time to stop dancing around this issue. Politicos should get serious about public transportation for ALL uses and forget about carnivals rides and needless subsidies for passe industries, such as horse racing.

I dont understand why this is such a hard concept for the city and the state to wrap their brains around. They should be looking at population projections and making the necessary developments necessary to make sure that Baltimore growth can be sustained...also that Baltimore workforce is moblized. I think these lifts are a horrible idea for that area and 300,000k could be the down payment on an impact study for another line of transit.

NewBaltimore1980

September 9th, 2005, 07:41 PM

I dont know if you guys know or not, but the DuBurns Center has been opened as an intake center for displaced residents of New Orleans.

Oh boy!

I like how all of a sudden we can provide housing for everyone for New Orleans but we cannot provide housing for the homeless in Baltimore. Its such a double standard (even though I don't agree with ANY public housing).

How about instead of voucher and debit cards the displaced residents, we set up a system where we can help them establish in a new job that will provide them the means to start a new life. Don't just give handouts and create another welfare state.

I think the best option would be for the government to provide temporary housing and jobs to begin to rebuild New Orleans. Let the residents of New Orleans rebuild New Orleans themselves with temporary assistance until they can get back to their homes. Don't just open every stadium in the country and make these people think they can't do it themselves, THEY CAN!

waj0527

September 9th, 2005, 09:09 PM

I dont understand why this is such a hard concept for the city and the state to wrap their brains around. They should be looking at population projections and making the necessary developments necessary to make sure that Baltimore growth can be sustained...also that Baltimore workforce is moblized. I think these lifts are a horrible idea for that area and 300,000k could be the down payment on an impact study for another line of transit.
Whats your telephone ext. at the Maryland Population Control Research Center in College Park? I'd love to be further educated on the finer points of population projection and sustainablity by an expert.

JAB323

September 9th, 2005, 10:24 PM

I was wondering if anyone would be up to taking new pics of canton crossing, and posting it, that would be great :)

jay130

September 9th, 2005, 10:46 PM

Whats your telephone ext. at the Maryland Population Control Research Center in College Park? I'd love to be further educated on the finer points of population projection and sustainablity by an expert.

1-800-fuck-off

StevenW

September 9th, 2005, 11:23 PM

Come on guys, play nice............

StevenW

September 9th, 2005, 11:26 PM

BTW, wouldn't this project be better to discuss?

http://www.nc3d.com/video/baltimoreSkoda.jpg

http://www.nc3d.com/video/baltimoreTrolly.jpg

Thanks to Cirrus's www.beyonddc.com website. :)

StevenW

September 10th, 2005, 12:16 AM

Oh yes, a couple renderings of Canton Tower and the other high-rises that'll be built AND some pix from "intitald" from SSP.

http://www.wbcm.com/images/KSI056a3D04.jpg

http://www.ariumarchitects.com/arium%20images/Projects/CFH-Canton%20Crossing/CantonTower-OctagonLouvers2.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961256.03440006.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961258.DSC07395.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961260.DSC07406.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961261.DSC07407.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961263.DSC07409.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961264.DSC07411.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961266.DSC07414.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961267.DSC07415.jpg

Furiine

September 10th, 2005, 12:22 AM

Great pictures. This is my favorite. :)
http://i.pbase.com/v3/09/580409/1/48961258.DSC07395.jpg

CU_rak

September 10th, 2005, 12:49 AM

Beautiful!! Thanks Steven!
Lockwood place looks good! (although I still can't understand why they didn't build a tower behind it) The westside is really coming along, I walked around there a few weeks ago, and it felt a lot safer than just a couple years earlier. As soon as the Abell building gets renovated, it will be a really desireable area. This has probably been asked before, but when is the Four Seasons scheduled to begin construction?
Here's a pic of the site with a welcome visitor! $$$ :yes:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8886/picture0109gy.th.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0109gy.jpg)

Furiine

September 10th, 2005, 12:56 AM

It seems like they would probably break ground soon, so the whole Harboreast vision is completed around the same time. I don't mean all the buildings go up at once, I mean that one building will begin construction, then another one a little later. I'm aiming for either this fall or early winter 2006.

fanofterps

September 10th, 2005, 01:32 AM

ARHAUS.COM upscale home funishing retail will occupy the first 2 levels of the "Vue" (parcel B) along with 7 screen foreign film movie house, and 4 to 5 other retailers to be named.

It seems like they would probably break ground soon, so the whole Harboreast vision is completed around the same time. I don't mean all the buildings go up at once, I mean that one building will begin construction, then another one a little later. I'm aiming for either this fall or early winter 2006.

StevenW

September 10th, 2005, 10:45 AM

jaysonjaz

September 10th, 2005, 01:24 PM

You guys all need to go eat at Maggie Moore's across from the Hippodrome. Its a fantastic remodeling/reuse of an old historic building. Its just a gorgeous building.

NewBaltimore1980

September 10th, 2005, 02:11 PM

You guys all need to go eat at Maggie Moore's across from the Hippodrome. Its a fantastic remodeling/reuse of an old historic building. Its just a gorgeous building.

Jayson how is the food? More importantly, how is the beer selection?

jaysonjaz

September 10th, 2005, 04:11 PM

Jayson how is the food? More importantly, how is the beer selection?

Good food.. not sure about the beer.. I only ordered a Guiness.. they have a nice bar downstairs and a more quiet dining section upstairs.

JAB323

September 10th, 2005, 09:17 PM

I'm sure i've heard it before but, who is developing 300 east pratt street :? :? :? :?

Ron C

September 11th, 2005, 01:07 AM

Hello all. Or should I say "guten Tag"?

I haven't been able to read the board much since moving to Germany in July, but now that we have our own house and real internet service, I've finally been able to catch up with the message board. And it seems that there's plenty to catch up with. Clearly there will be a lot of new and exciting changes to see when we return to Baltimore in two years. But, meanwhile, I have to say that I've been enjoying the different approach the Germans have towards urban development.

Despite having lived in downtown Baltimore City (Federal Hill/Otterbein) for the last 12 years, we decided to rent a house in a small village (7,000 pop) about 12 miles south of Heidelberg. In fact, it takes only a few miles to go from the center of Heidelberg to rural farmland and small villages. What is really nice is that each village has its own town center with at least some basic shopping, though they are starting to build shopping centers on village outskirts that are drawing shoppers out of the towns. What you don't see at all here in Germany, though, are huge, sprawling housing developments planted in the middle of farmland miles from anything. Rather, all new housing is built right on the edge of existing towns.

The bigger cities (and most of the smaller ones) all have really good mass transit. Heidelberg has only about 150,000 pop (city), yet they have half a dozen streetcar lines, an extensive bus system, AND commuter trains. Busses, even those that travel out to the small towns, are all coordinated, and you can easily connect between them and the streetcars or commuter trains without waiting more than 5 or 10 minutes for your connection.

Another great thing they have here are the numerous center city underground parking garages. They are all municipal garages, well located, and well identified by directional signs throughout downtown. And they are cheap! You can park for hours for only a few euros. And best of all, they haven't torn down any of the old buildings for unsightly above ground parking garages that ruin the downtown streetscapes.

Here are a few pictures I've taken so far of Heidelberg and surroundings.

On the right is the guesthouse we stayed in when we first arrived. It is conveniently located right
on one of the streetcar lines. The train approaching has come from downtown Heidelberg.
http://www.digistash.com/data/a51c896c9cb81ecb5a199d51ac9fc3c5/full_6347_p88319.jpg

Here is a shot of the Altstadt (old city) taken from the middle of the Neckar River. The old castle is on the left.
http://www.digistash.com/data/a51c896c9cb81ecb5a199d51ac9fc3c5/6466_p90359.jpg

This is a view of the Alte Brücke (old bridge) with the castle in the background.
http://www.digistash.com/data/a51c896c9cb81ecb5a199d51ac9fc3c5/6466_p90360.jpg

This is the center of our little village, Rauenberg.
http://www.digistash.com/data/a51c896c9cb81ecb5a199d51ac9fc3c5/full_6347_p88307.jpg

And this is our house. It's the left side of a Doppelhaus (duplex).
http://www.digistash.com/data/a51c896c9cb81ecb5a199d51ac9fc3c5/full_6347_p88303.jpg

StevenW

September 11th, 2005, 02:48 AM

Very nice, Ron. :)
So, will you be coming back to Baltimore in 2 years? :)
BTW, I like that little village.

StevenW

September 11th, 2005, 02:40 PM

RTKL moves forward with design of new student residence hall

MICA and Baltimore city officials approve Design of the new building at 1601 Mount Royal Avenue

RTKL Receives Approval from MICA and Baltimore City Officials for the Design of the New Student Residence Hall at 1601 Mount Royal Avenue
RTKL has received approval from Maryland Institute College of Art (MICA) and Baltimore City officials on the design for a new student residence hall at the college's campus. The 215-bed facility will be located at 1601 Mount Royal Avenue, at the intersection of North Avenue, alongside the Jones Falls Expressway (I-83). The approved plan, a refinement of the conceptual design selected as the winner of a design competition, features a contoured design that maximizes the small 22,000-square-foot site. RTKL will spend the next several months finalizing details of the design. Construction is slated to begin in early 2006 with occupancy expected in fall of 2007.

A planning meeting with city officials on Thursday, August 18 garnered preliminary approval for the design, which emphasizes continuous interior and exterior spaces in a 360-degree orientation. A signature entrance on Mount Royal Avenue opens into the public areas of the building's two-story base, upon which rests a six-story residential drum, anchored by a 10-story fritted glass studio tower facing North Avenue.

"The strength of the design lies in the way it addresses the complex requirements of the site, the needs of MICA and its students, and the best interests of the surrounding community,” said Doug McCoach, RTKL Vice President-in-charge of the project. “The building's relationship to the urban context is outstanding. It will engage passersby both on the street and traveling on 83."

MICA President Fred Lazarus observed, “The project team has worked closely with our staff and students to refine the design to meet the unique needs of student artists, as well as to provide a landmark that will serve as an appropriate gateway to our campus and the Mount Royal Cultural District. The design process has been truly collaborative, and the results are spectacular. We are proud that throughout our history, MICA has been able to maintain a very high standard for the quality of architecture on our campus. This building, a key component of our Campus Master Plan, continues that tradition.”

The new building will be set within a landscaped exterior plaza partly sheltered under the overhang of the residential drum. A wall that at one end creates a base for the tower and gateway to the plaza from North Avenue will curve around the site. Landscaping of the plaza and along the wall, by Maryland-based Higgins-Lazarus, will echo the materials used throughout the campus, providing continuity to the streetscape on Mount Royal Avenue.

At the building's plaza level, a gallery, café, and a 3,600-square-foot multi-use performance space integrates the residential facility with the campus community and Bolton Hill neighborhood. The second story features offices, meeting spaces, and student services, as well as laundry and other shared facilities for residents.

Rising above the base, the residential glass drum offers several different apartment-style housing options of two, three or four single bedrooms with a common living area. All apartments enter off the open-air, inner courtyard, designed to serve as a civic amenity for residents. A handrail system lines inner walkways, which provide a consistent pathway on each floor.

The fritted glass studio tower anchoring the residential drum houses the building's vertical circulation and elevators and is designed to offer appropriate ventilation for the artists' studios, which will allow work in a range of media. In addition, several two-bedroom apartments in the tower incorporate dedicated studio space. The tower's location, offering northern light, was selected with artists' needs in mind, and views into the tower from I-83 and North Avenue will provide a glimpse into the work of MICA's student artists.

While the building's design has evolved during the design process, it maintains the integrity of the original scheme by a team of designers from RTKL's London office. It was the winning design of an inter-office, young designers competition held in November 2004 and judged by a panel of MICA, RTKL, and community leaders. The original design featured a studio tower level with the drum, as well as more distinct masses of residences.

The project team, headed by McCoach, includes Project Manager Mark Kendall, Project Architect Shawn Reichart, and a multidisciplinary group based out of the firm's Baltimore office. “The collaborative effort of the expanded design team, which has incorporated RTKL engineers and Higgins-Lazarus from the start, has greatly enhanced the design and played a key role in reaching the next step in the development process,” McCoach says.

The residence hall at 1601 Mount Royal Avenue will serve as an architectural anchor to the northern end of the school's campus. MICA anticipates the building will be fully occupied by the fall of 2007.

About RTKL:

RTKL is a worldwide architecture, engineering, planning and creative services organization. Founded in 1946, the firm specializes in providing its services across the full development cycle to create places of distinction. With projects around the globe, RTKL is an idea-driven firm providing innovative customized business solutions and seamless delivery to clients in commercial, cultural and governmental www.rtkl.com.

About Maryland Institute College of Art:

Maryland Institute College of Art (MICA), founded in 1826, is consistently ranked among the very top tier of visual arts colleges in the nation and enrolls approximately 1,400 undergraduate students and 200 graduate students from 48 states and 47 foreign countries. MICA offers programs of study leading to the BFA, MA, and MFA degrees, as well as post-baccalaureate certificate programs and a full slate of credit and noncredit courses for adults, college-bound students, and children. MICA is also recognized as an important cultural resource for the Baltimore/Washington region, sponsoring many public and community-outreach programs, including more than 100 exhibitions by students, faculty, and nationally and internationally known artists annually, as well artists' residencies, film series, lectures, readings, and performances. For more information, visit www.mica.edu.

Media Contact:

Cheryl Knauer, MICA (410) 225-2300/pr@mica.edu

Alice Ockleshaw, RTKL (410) 537-6086/aockleshaw@rtkl.com

http://www.rtkl.com/images/newsimages/mica_finalredering.jpg

I think it's a pretty nice design. :) It should add to Baltimore's unique architecture. :D

JAB323

September 11th, 2005, 03:01 PM

Baltimoreguy

September 11th, 2005, 06:18 PM

The 1st Manier Tower is nearly topped off. At 330 Feet it will the tallest building in Maryland outside of downtown Baltimore. It looks taller than it is becasue there are no other highrises near it. Once the three condo towers are built also 300 feet tall each. It sdhould be pretty impressive. The Zenith has a big crane on site. The VUE is going to to huge still working on the first floor. The apartmetns at the end of fells street is topped off and looks like a pretty big building.

scando

September 11th, 2005, 07:30 PM

Yeah, I agree, it would ad to Baltimore's unique architecture. I was just thinking, I couldn't remember the name of it, but there was an old clock tower in the city. It was demolished I know that, but wasn't there a plan a while back to rebuild one with the orginial clock. What ever happened to that plan. From what I remember that clock tower dated back to the turn of the century. Didn't it stand near city hall, not really sure, hope you guys can help.

I believe that it was called "The Tower Building" (duh) and it was demolished back about 1984. It had a mid-rise building with a taller part that supported a huge clock. At the time there was some planned office building that was going to incorporate a rebuilt clock into it, but it never happened. I believe that several months ago, someone found a picture of the proposed building and posted it here. At the time there was an uproar about demolishing the ornate old building but the promises of the developer put a salve on the controversy. Like many promises that developers make to preservationists, it turned out to be a lie. Is it any wonder that there is so much mutual distrust? I wonder if there is a warehouse somewhere with the remains of the clock.

For some pix and history, refer to http://www.mdhs.org/library/baltarch/Page17.html

StevenW

September 11th, 2005, 08:12 PM

http://mdhsimage.mdhs.org/library/images/xaccesslive/bromotower_1.jpg

What a shame that it's gone.... :(

JAB323

September 11th, 2005, 08:44 PM

Yeah, its too bad it's gone, wasn't it taller than the bromoseltzer

StevenW

September 11th, 2005, 09:03 PM

Yes, I believe it was taller.

scottbbfm

September 11th, 2005, 11:48 PM

Hi everyone, I've been reading the posts in the forum for a couple of months now, but just recently registered.

Anyway, I wanted to make a couple of observations.

1. I was just down at the harbor (I live downtown) and walked by the area of the 'proposed' cityscape building. Some of you may not know this, but there is an artists co-op in the first level of one of the units that is supposed to be torn down called Current, and plastered on the window is a large poster, clearly satiracal in nature, condemning the Cityscape proposal. I find this to be in extremely poor taste, especially when these artists are in the unit rent free per Mayor O'Malley. I wonder if he knows about it? They should just be happy they are in there rent free, and probably rent free for a very long time if you consider how long it takes to get stuff done around here.

2. Baltimore is really coming along, The biggest thing this city needs to do get the city to the next level is worry about transportation to the Harbor East/Fells Point/Canton/Patterson Park areas. I feel this is the key to making Baltimore on par with the other 4 NE cities. For everyone living in on the West Side or Mt. Vernon area or Federal Hill areas, its simply too far to walk to. Its even too far to walk between the eastern areas. With the influx of people expected, the cross town traffic is just going to be miserable. President street is already miserable, Fleet street is a major pain, and I'm sure Alcienna is going to be the same way once all the retail opens up. The city showed some foresight by building the parking garage over there, but they really need to put the Redline on the fast track. The gondolas just aren't going to do it either. We need the redline, pronto!

3. I'm for the convention center hotel, but that design.......pulaaase.

4. With the Zenith and the rest of the west side gaps being filled in, the Water Tower, and the Vue, and some of the smaller residential projects going on, (Those other projects I'm not holding my breath on) Baltimore city is really going to be a great community to live in.

StevenW

September 12th, 2005, 12:34 AM

Welcome, scottbbfm! :)
It's good to have you here. :)
Please feel free to post any time. :)
That's really something about the Cityscape situation. I guess some people aren't greatful for anything.
I have a couple of renderings you may like:

300 east pratt street....
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/6slcepropelev.jpg

and the latest one light street rendering/proposal.....
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/3003/28baltimore-onelightstreet.jpg

What do you think about their chances of going up soon? :D

scottbbfm

September 12th, 2005, 12:55 AM

lol, I guess it depends on your definition of soon. I'd say I'm more confident with 300 E going up soon. However, I feel the city "needs" one light more than 300. 300 is already a good location and area. Putting a building there isn't going to make a difference for the city besides an addition to the skyline. However, a more residential spot a little further north of the harbor is probably more beneficial and would help "connect" the city a little more. Baltimore Street still leaves something to be desired, and a successful residential building on that corner would surely help. After 6pm, that area is for the most part dead. Would the Mcdonalds (which btw is probably the WORST mcdonalds on the planet, I have some great stories from that place if anyone is intersted) be forced out through imminent domain?

PS where and when did you get that light street rendering?

StevenW

September 12th, 2005, 01:29 AM

Well, with this one light street proposal, I don't think that McDonalds would leave. I think I remember someone saying that they would move into the new structure, maybe. I may be wrong on that though. :D
However, about the rendering....
I forget where I got it. Peter Filliat's site still has the older renderings of One Light Street. "Go figure". :?

BTW, any insight you can offer, ie; inside stories, pictures, renderings and/or news you hear will be greatly appriciated here I assure you. :D ;) :)
I envy you living downtown and all.
Oh yeah, personally, I want 300 built before One Light Street because I don't really like the current proposal for One Light Street. I wish that spot would be reserved for a "World Class Type Tower" of some sort. I would like to see a mixed use type of development there that would consist of residential/condo, hotel, office and retail with some parking. :D

StevenW

September 12th, 2005, 02:26 AM

http://www.starwoodenews.com/20050603/images/harborpoint.jpg

The Westin Harbor Point, Baltimore, Maryland
Opening June 2007
260 guestrooms
9,000 sq ft meeting space

:D

robert parsons

September 12th, 2005, 04:55 AM

the zenith site has been cleared. the concrete barriers are up in the street and there is a bunch of metal molds on site for the concrete pileons to go in place. bayview is coming along nicely. they also have a huge parking structure going up on the east side of the site.

Furiine

September 12th, 2005, 05:11 AM

I drove around Baltimore city yesterday (mostly up North Ave, Greenmount Ave/York Rd, down Charles and Saint Paul St, around downtown, and around Canton, Fells Point, and Patterson Park.) I caught a glimpse of Harboreast. I was pleasantly surprised by how much nicer things were looking. Canton Crossing didn't honestly strike me as being as tall as discussed, though from some angles (like looking south from O'Donnell St) I can see where some of the "illusory" height came from. It looks considerably taller from various angles, though as you go up Boston Street it still looks a little stubby. Maybe it's just the elevation of the terrain. Either way, it still looks like it's about 330 feet and I couldn't really make out if the crown was being formed or not. It still kind of looks like there are a couple more floors being added.

Gsol

September 12th, 2005, 05:21 AM

jaysonjaz

September 12th, 2005, 07:18 AM

Some of you may not know this, but there is an artists co-op in the first level of one of the units that is supposed to be torn down called Current, and plastered on the window is a large poster, clearly satiracal in nature, condemning the Cityscape proposal. I find this to be in extremely poor taste, especially when these artists are in the unit rent free per Mayor O'Malley. I wonder if he knows about it? They should just be happy they are in there rent free, and probably rent free for a very long time if you consider how long it takes to get stuff done around here.

I drove by it and was offended at first, but now I'm mostly amused by it. They are mostly poking fun at whats driving the market right now.
"Commute to DC!!!" "Overpriced condos!!"

I think its mostly tongue in cheek. :)

JAB323

September 12th, 2005, 01:04 PM

Such a waste of space. I agree with Gsol it does look like a suburban hotel, they could do a lot better

JAB323

September 12th, 2005, 01:05 PM

By the way, what is the latest on Cityscape, haven't heard much from them lately

PeterSmith

September 12th, 2005, 03:08 PM

I agree. I am often quite disappointed in the lack of self-esteem Baltimore has for itself. There is plenty more, I feel at least, that people would want to live in this city for besides the fact that they want to live in DC, but can't afford it. Oh well, whatever works best, I guess.

SoBoChris

September 12th, 2005, 03:46 PM

What's Silo Point without silos?
Architecture: Edward Gunts
Changes suggested for the Locust Point grain elevator

Architecture Column
Originally published Sep 12, 2005

What would Silo Point be without its silos?

That's the question now under consideration by local architects planning to convert a huge grain elevator complex in Locust Point to a 218-unit condominium development called Silo Point.

The 297-foot-tall grain elevator, visible from many parts of the city, dates from 1923. It ceased operating in 2002, after part of the state-owned pier that linked it to the waterfront fell into the harbor. It is targeted for conversion to upscale residences as part of a $400 million "planned unit development" that also includes 121 luxury townhouses, commercial space and parking for more than 500 cars.

Early plans by Parameter Inc. of Baltimore called for the high-rise "elevator" portion of the property to contain residences with panoramic harbor views and for the windowless lower section, where grain was stored in 110 silos, to become a multi-level garage for the residents' cars.

As architects developed their design, they began to explore the idea of demolishing much of the silo section and leaving fewer than a dozen of the cylinders visible to passers-by. In place of the silos they proposed to build a multi-level garage wrapped by condominiums on the perimeter.

Even with the additional condominiums, the project would not exceed the number of residences permitted by the Planned Unit Development legislation approved by City Council. But eliminating most of the concrete grain silos would significantly alter the composition - and erode the visual element that inspired the name Silo Point.

The proposed change troubled at least two members of Baltimore's Urban Design and Architecture Review Panel, which reviewed the latest plans last month.

"I'm disappointed that we're not seeing more of the silos," said panel member Deborah Dietsch. "If you're going to keep the silos, you need to keep more of them."

"Ideally, it would be nice to keep more silos," agreed panel member Mark Cameron.

The plans also have drawn concerns from nearby residents. They told the design review panel that the developer initially indicated that the windowless silo walls were to remain intact and that a garage would be constructed inside, and they didn't mind such an approach because it would take cars off the streets

without invading anyone's privacy. But if condominiums rise where the silos were, they say, residents of the existing rowhouses will have new neighbors peering directly into their yards and windows.

"This is not the way it was sold to the community," said Joyce Bauerle, president of the Locust Point Civic Association. "This is a different ballgame. ... We're going to have all these people looking down on us."

Design panel members agreed that taking down most of the silos and replacing them with a garage wrapped with condominiums represented a significant change, and they asked the architects to study the idea further.

The panel members said they would like to see the architects explore two design directions - first, plans that emphasize the retention of silos along the perimeter, and second, plans that eliminate the silo portion altogether and show another location for parking and condominiums - a "community friendly" design that would put any new residences farther away from existing rowhouses.

They also urged the development team, headed by Patrick Turner, to work closely with the community as it evaluates options. "We're not convinced that there has been sufficient interaction with the community," said panel member Mario Schack.

The architects say they are studying both options and intend to schedule another meeting with the review panel. Besides Parameter, the design team includes Garth Rockcas- tle, an architect and educator who is dean of the University of Maryland School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation.

One issue that would have to be addressed if the silos disappear altogether is what the project would be called. No-More-Silos Point? Used-To-Have-Silos Point? What's The Point? Without those brooding silos, it just wouldn't be the same.

jpreston02

September 12th, 2005, 05:33 PM

SoBoChris

September 12th, 2005, 05:57 PM

I found this on the opening page of the Parameter website. This might be the new design the article is talking about, but I'm not entirely sure.

http://home.comcast.net/~jonathanpreston/param_splash.jpg

Well, I can say that it definitely isn't what the garage portion would look like if they keep the silos that are currently there.

jeremai

September 12th, 2005, 06:16 PM

Yep, that's the design they are talking about. I was pretty surprised when I first saw it too. The pic below shows how close the silos are to the rowhomes. Imagine only the end three silos remaining and the rest being apartments. I wouldn't want all those windows overlooking my property either.

http://images3.fotop.net/albums3/jeremai/Locust_Point/100_0532.jpg

jay130

September 12th, 2005, 06:51 PM

http://www.starwoodenews.com/20050603/images/harborpoint.jpg

The Westin Harbor Point, Baltimore, Maryland
Opening June 2007
260 guestrooms
9,000 sq ft meeting space

:D

Hey steve have they decided on a site for this

Brian21

September 12th, 2005, 09:10 PM

Has anyone emailed Arc Wheeler lately? I'm wondering when we are going to hear something on the St. Regis project. I'm sorry guys I'm being impatient :)

SoBoChris

September 12th, 2005, 09:33 PM

BTW, Happy Defenders Day! 191 years ago today, Baltimore single-handedly saved the USA from becoming once again a colony of the British empire.

Brian21

September 12th, 2005, 10:03 PM

Wow awesome! :)

Thanks for that SoBoChris, who says us Southern High Grads aren't educated ;)

Ron C

September 12th, 2005, 10:18 PM

Steve where did you get the rendering of the Westin? It looks like a suburban hotel or something you would see at a highway exit, certainly not a big city hotel.

Good to hear from Ron C again. A note for Ron. If you can get to Manheim, Germany, I believe they have the only revenue service urban monorail system (not an amusement park ride). I think readers of this site would be interested in it. This is a unique conveyance that might be interesting enough for tourists and transport the locals around the CBD as well. This is more practical than a moving clothes line.

Steven, yes, we will be returning back to Baltimore in 2 years. I imagine a lot will have changed in that time.

Gsol, I haven't really gotten to Mannheim yet. It's not considered a tourist hot spot. But when I get a chance, I will look for the monorail you talk about.

I do know, though, that the Germans were among the early developers and testers of Maglev. I remember seeing a test section of it a number of years ago, as I recall, somewhere in the north of Germany. I don't know where it all stands now, but I'll try to find out.

(Gary, How are you doing? When I get my old PC delivered later this week, I will send you an email. I'm using a new laptop and don't have my old address book with me.)

MasonsInquiries

September 13th, 2005, 12:43 AM

BTW, Happy Defenders Day! 191 years ago today, Baltimore single-handedly saved the USA from becoming once again a colony of the British empire.

It's always good to get a history lesson every now & then. it's good for the mind. :) :) :) :okay: :okay: :okay: :okay: :okay:

MasonsInquiries

September 13th, 2005, 12:54 AM

JAB323 Such a waste of space. I agree with Gsol it does look like a suburban hotel, they could do a lot better

Steve where did you get the rendering of the Westin? It looks like a suburban hotel or something you would see at a highway exit, certainly not a big city hotel.

Well, again, you guys have to remember WHERE this westin hotel is being built. it's being built on a peninsula that's been in limbo for some time now because of the "toxic" issue that harbor point has had to deal with. you can't make buildings but so high because of THIS reason. i think it looks fine by the way considering the circumstances. at first, they weren't going to build anything there at all, so let's be extremely grateful for this. it looks fine. personally, i could definitely see myself staying in it in 2007 when it opens its doors. it's gonna' look wonderful.

StevenW

September 13th, 2005, 01:08 AM

Hey steve have they decided on a site for this

I got this rendering and info from the www.stregis.com website. "Star Hotels".

I guess it is planned for one of the acres of the 27 acre parcel of land that is called: "Harbor Point". Earlier there was a rendering of both Harbor East AND Harbor Point. Maybe someone could post it again. Because in it, you notice that most all the buildings are low to mid-rise buildings. So, that must be the "theme". :?
Who knows? Maybe, with more time, plans may change and we might see one or two high-rises in the mix at Harbor Point. :) Let's hope. :)

BALTIMORE -- Baltimore's High Flyer balloon, which was next to Port Discovery, is now deflated.

Balloon Over Baltimore Inc. said it has decided to take it down until a final decision about its future comes. The organization said it will wait because city has already announced plans to redevelop the land.

The once popular tourist attraction was shut down after last July's accident when the helium-filled balloon got stuck 200 feet in the air and, at one point, slammed into city police headquarters and stranded 16 passengers.

City officials have encouraged a mixed-use plan that would include shops and residential space. The city will accept proposals through October.

JAB323

September 13th, 2005, 01:58 AM

Where on Stregis.com did you go to to get the rendering

waj0527

September 13th, 2005, 03:38 AM

Baltimore Business Journal - 4:36 PM EDT Monday

Tower Hill part of plan picked for Charles Street
Heather Harlan
Staff

The Baltimore Development Corp. picked a group that includes Tower Hill Development & Consulting LLC to redevelop two lots that include the former Chesapeake Restaurant along Charles Street.

Called Station North Development Partners LLC, the group is planning a mixed-use project that would encompass a 13-story residential building with ground-level retail, 15,000 square feet of office space, a 190-space parking garage, five lofts and 11 townhouses. Another building replacing the existing parking lot at the corner of North Charles and Lafayette streets would house an ice cream shop, gallery, studio and office space for the Schuler School of Fine Arts.

Station North Development's plan calls for the renovation of the former Chesapeake Restaurant building, considered somewhat of a downtown landmark.

In addition to Baltimore-based Tower Hill, the selected group, which has entered into a six-month negotiating privilege with the Baltimore Development Corp., also includes Michael and Alan Shecter, the Miller Group, Stephen A. Masciola, Century Engineering, Whiting-Turner Contracting Co. and Peter Fillat Architects Inc.

The winning team's proposal beat out one that called for a new Everyman Theatre and another involving an apartment complex.

"Station North Development Partners have proposed an exciting mixed-use project that will build upon existing community strengths and bring new life to the southern gateway of the city's Station North Arts and Entertainment District,'' said M.J. "Jay'' Brodie, president of the Baltimore Development Corp., in a prepared statement.

Gsol

September 13th, 2005, 03:42 AM

(Gary, How are you doing? When I get my old PC delivered later this week, I will send you an email. I'm using a new laptop and don't have my old address book with me.)

Ron I am doing fine. But as soon as you left the Orioles collapsed. Now the Ravens are off to a bad start. Can you come back sooner?

Gsol

September 13th, 2005, 04:03 AM

I will type a portion of this article from today's Baltimore Business Journal.

The Baltimore Development Corp. picked a group that includes Tower Hill Development & Consulting LLC to redeveelop two lots that include the former Chesapeake Restaurant along Charles St.

Called Station North Development Partners LLC, the group is planning a mixed-use project that would encompass a 13-story residential building with ground-level retail, 15,000 sq ft of office space, a 190-space parking grarge, five lofts and 11 townhouses. Another building replacing the existing parking lot at the corner of North Charles and Lafayette streets would house an ice cream shop, gallery, studio and office space for the Schuler School of Fine Arts.

Gsol

September 13th, 2005, 04:04 AM

NewBaltimore1980

September 13th, 2005, 05:57 AM

Here goes Stephen "I hate all development" Strohl again trying to use his one sided bias to influence the Canton Association in the below email. I for one love the proposal and will be attending the meeting. Its a great design to liven up the water front in Canton. Finally a waterfront destination in Baltimore for the residents, not just the tourists. This could be as nice as the Georgetown waterfront in DC, although don't get excited about it because Mr. Strohl is bound to crush this one too.

http://www.iconatcanton.com

The web site for the Cignal Corp Development is as follows:
http://www.iconatcanton.com/. You will notice that the web site contains two images without any supporting text. It became very clear from a discussion I participated in earlier this afternoon that this is the same plan that was presented earlier this summer. The plan, as you may recall, calls for a condo building 30 stories high (with 5 stories of parking) along the waterfront with an adjoining 11 story building in the front for a hotel with some 35 townhomes and small retail.

I would encourage you to come out to the CCA Public Meeting on Tuesday, Sept. 27th (doors open at 6:30 pm at the Church on the corner of S.
Ellwood and Dillon) to hear directly from the developer and our City officials.

--
Stephen Strohl
President
Canton Community Association (CCA)
P.O. Box 5125
Baltimore, MD 21224
Phone: 410-342-0900 (24 hour voice mail) http://www.cantoncommunity.org

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Cignal Corp Boston Street building update & presentation at the
CCA Public meeting, 9/27.
From: "Canton Community Association" <broadcast@cantoncommunity.org>
Date: Mon, September 5, 2005 1:55 am
To: <announcements@cantoncommunity.org>

An update on Lighthouse Point:

As you know, the proposal that Cignal Corporation presented to the
community at St. Casmir's Hall for the development of the parking lot
between the Boatel building and Tindeco in effect died largely because
of the concerns and questions raised by the public at that meeting, as
well as by Councilman Kraft's refusal to introduce the necessary
legislation to effect the changes sought. At that time, Coucilman Kraft
made it clear that the community should be prepared to see another
proposal for the site because the developer had the right to do so and
he anticipated that it would do so.

Within the last few days, Councilman Kraft has been advised by the
City's Department of Planning that it wants to proceed with the
development of the site. He was advised that, if the community wanted
to be part of the process, he should let them know of the Department's
position. The Councilman said that Planning Department's intention is
to proceed with this project was made very clear to him.

The Councilman has spoken with Mr. Cignarelli, a principal of Cignal
Corporation, who has advised the Councilman that while he wants
development of the site, he also wants community input. The Councilman
reiterated the community's concerns to Mr. Cignarelli, as he did with
the Planning Department, and he strongly advised Mr. Cignarelli of the
need to address the community's concerns.

At the July 28th St. Casimir's meeting a number of individuals requested
that the developer's plans be placed on a web site for easy access by
everyone with interest in the project. It is our understanding that the
plans will be available effective Friday, September 9, 2005. The
website address will be forthcoming once that information has been made
available.

In addition, we have been informed that Mr. Cignarelli will be
presenting this proposal to Design Review on September 15. While this
is not a public hearing and public testimony will not be taken, i.e., we
would not be able to talk, the meeting is open to the public.

Cignal Corp will be at our Public meeting on Tuesday, September 27,
2005, to present the project for its review and consideration. Council
President Sheila Dixon is the previously scheduled speaker and she will
also be in attendance. If you are concerned about building and
development issues along the waterfront in Canton, I would encourage you
to help us get the word out and come on out on Tuesday, 9/27. Meeting
details are posted on the CCA's web site at
http://www.cantoncommunity.org/cca/meetingschedule/meetingschedule.html.

Thank you.

Stephen Strohl
President
Canton Community Association (CCA)
P.O. Box 5125
Baltimore, MD 21224
Phone: 410-342-0900 (24 hour voice mail)
http://www.cantoncommunity.org

***********
Subscription to the Canton Community Association's (CCA) email list, Announcements, is voluntary. CCA will not share your email address with any other organizations. To unsubscribe at any time, send an email to majordomo@cantoncommunity.org with the words "unsubscribe announcements" in the body of your message.

To contact CCA please use the information below:
Canton Community Association (CCA)
P.O. Box 5125
Baltimore, MD 21224
410-342-0900 (24 hour voice mail)
info@cantoncommunity.org

waj0527

September 13th, 2005, 01:47 PM

Thats a pretty building. But Im not holding my breath.

PeterSmith

September 13th, 2005, 02:01 PM

PeterSmith

September 13th, 2005, 02:03 PM

Here it is

http://www.pfarc.com/images/05010/02.jpg

http://www.pfarc.com/images/05010/01.jpg

Gsol

September 13th, 2005, 03:26 PM

Sorry for the multiple posts, but the site is really acting up and is difficult to work with.

Gsol

September 13th, 2005, 03:29 PM

That is the first time I have seen a rendering of that Canton tower. It looks very nice. I would love to see it go up, as I'm sure most of us would, but again, the chances look slim.

As for the 13-story condo above the Chesapeake Restaurant, I posted a rendering of it a while back, but i can't remember where I got it from. It kind of reminds me of a mini-The Gallery at Harborplace. It doesn't really fit in with the architecure of Charles Village, but it should add some more life to the area...not that Charles Village is lacking in that department.

From the rendering you posted it looks like the old Cheasapeake restaurnat building has something growing out of it. It makes you want to walk around and find out where that new building is. From the rear of the site, you can notice that the new structure is affixed to the older one by steel posts.

The whole structure should be brick. It will make people look up, take notice and scratch their heads - "what the heck....". I agree that it will breathe life into a up-and- coming area.

As for the Canton project. One of the best new developments I have seen. But knowing the history of the community board, it will not happen.

Gsol

September 13th, 2005, 03:31 PM

That is the first time I have seen a rendering of that Canton tower. It looks very nice. I would love to see it go up, as I'm sure most of us would, but again, the chances look slim.

As for the 13-story condo above the Chesapeake Restaurant, I posted a rendering of it a while back, but i can't remember where I got it from. It kind of reminds me of a mini-The Gallery at Harborplace. It doesn't really fit in with the architecure of Charles Village, but it should add some more life to the area...not that Charles Village is lacking in that department.

From the rendering you posted it looks like the old Cheasapeake restaurnat building has something growing out of it. It makes you want to walk around and find out where that new building is. From the rear of the site, you can notice that the new structure is affixed to the older one by steel posts.

The whole structure should be brick. It will make people look up, take notice and scratch their heads - "what the heck .....?". I agree that it will breathe life into a up-and- coming area.

As for the Canton project. One of the best new developments I have seen. But knowing the history of the community board, it will not happen.

Brian21

September 13th, 2005, 04:23 PM

Yeah that rendering of the canton tower looks awesome. Guess we have to wait to and see if it will happen.

Brian21

September 13th, 2005, 04:29 PM

Yeah that rendering of the canton tower looks awesome. Guess we have to wait to and see if it will happen.

SoBoChris

September 13th, 2005, 05:19 PM

I wonder how many of us it would take to out number their "no" votes?

jaysonjaz

September 13th, 2005, 05:44 PM

Does that community board have ultimate authority? How come what ever they say goes?

Brian21

September 13th, 2005, 05:56 PM

Is anyone else having trouble with the site? Its been acting really funky lately. Its running extremely slow and sometimes doesn't even come up.

NewBaltimore1980

September 13th, 2005, 06:45 PM

Does that community board have ultimate authority? How come what ever they say goes?

No Community group has ultimate authority. They have no legal jurisdiction over anything because the residents did not agree to their terms. The only community associations that have any merit are those that the residents all agree to be part of when they purchase the property. If these guys have the money and time (which they do) they could sue to get this tower built.

The good thing is that the city seems to think the same as I do, that the Canton Community Group is out of control and is irrelavant because they do not agree to anything. That is why the city ignored the first meeting and is going right to the planning commission. This project is good for the city, its residents and canton.

The good thing about the planning commission is that they give the community a chance to voice opinion, but they only take it as one consideration in a very big decision to build new developments. I personnally think this project will be built minus the hotel.

jeremai

September 13th, 2005, 07:29 PM

Is anyone else having trouble with the site? Its been acting really funky lately. Its running extremely slow and sometimes doesn't even come up.

Yep, it took all morning just to get this thread to load. Seems to be OK right at the moment though.

SoBoChris

September 13th, 2005, 08:47 PM

Yeah, I say a bunch of us here crash their "no to all developments now and forever" meeting and vote yes to everything!

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but does the city council person have to endorse any proposal in their district in order for it to go before the entire city council? If they go to these meetings and the association, (ie. the voters) shoot a proposal down, don't they feel obligated (pressured) to do the same or else face possible defeat in the next election?? In a way, the association has their council person in their back pocket.

I could be wrong. I don't know much about politics.

ps. yes, this site has been very slow lately, this morning especially.

JAB323

September 13th, 2005, 10:12 PM

Whats the latest on Slender Waterfront Development, Southern Shore

MasonsInquiries

September 13th, 2005, 10:26 PM

Thats a pretty building. But Im not holding my breath.

so beautiful, so elegant, so gracious, so nice. it would fit PERFECTLY with the area in canton. you can count me in at that meeting on Tuesday, September 27th. i'll definitely be there

http://www.iconatcanton.com/images/icon.jpg

MasonsInquiries

September 13th, 2005, 10:26 PM

StevenW

September 13th, 2005, 10:29 PM

http://www.iconatcanton.com/images/icon.jpg

I love this tower and overall project. WHY would he NOT want this project? :? :? :?
:crazy:

MasonsInquiries

September 13th, 2005, 10:32 PM

this darn website acts funky when it wants to. UUUGGGHHHH!!!!!!!! :bleep: :bleep: :bleep: :bleep: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

PeterSmith

September 13th, 2005, 10:45 PM

Brian21

September 13th, 2005, 10:59 PM

That building is gorgeous :eek2:

StevenW

September 13th, 2005, 11:03 PM

I hope this tower get's built. How far is it from the other Ed Hale towers? :?

StevenW

September 13th, 2005, 11:20 PM

MasonsInquiries

September 13th, 2005, 11:33 PM

Yeah, that building looks too good not to go up. If I was in Baltimore I'd definitely be at that meeting. Actually, I might be - as the whole England thing is not working out. When and where is the meeting again?

CCA Public Meeting on Tuesday, Sept. 27th (doors open at 6:30 pm at the Church on the corner of S. Ellwood and Dillon).

and BELIEVE ME, i'm gonna' break my neck to get to this meeting. i truly feel that the more people show up, the more the doubts will blow in the opposite direction which will lead to this building eventually being put up. i'll find this church yet as long as there's a such thing as "mapquest".....lol. like you said peter, this tower looks to good not to go up.

StevenW

September 13th, 2005, 11:35 PM

I'd love to see more angles of this tower. :)

MasonsInquiries

September 13th, 2005, 11:39 PM

I hope this tower get's built. How far is it from the other Ed Hale towers? :?

according to this map (and i know exactly where tindeco wharf is), i would say this project's about a good 3 blocks from canton crossing.

http://www.iconatcanton.com/images/siteplan.gif

SoBoChris

September 13th, 2005, 11:53 PM

Yeah, this is definitely something to fight for! I can't see any one good reason why the CCA would be against this. I mean look at it!! It just screams class and elegance.

StevenW

September 13th, 2005, 11:56 PM

Yep, and it would most definately blend well with the Ed Hale towers making a nice little skyline worth a "glance or two". ;)

robert parsons

September 14th, 2005, 02:12 AM

the new tower will complament the skyline nicely and fill in the gaps between hale's tower and the brown apt tower accross from safeway. most of the land in front of the site accross boston st is a small park then there is the church with the school next to that. the townhouses are a block over from the park so people cant say its blocking there view of the water. exxon has torn down there gas storage takes in between boston and odonnel sts to add more parking for brewers hill development. too cool! :)

scottbbfm

September 14th, 2005, 02:15 AM

I think we are all in agreement on this one.....viewed from the water/95, it will really start to link the harbor together. Connecting Canton Crossing to the Icon to Harbor East to Downtown where hopefully the St. Regis and 300 E pratt will go up, and around to Harbor View, and possibly further down if they can ever get the Key Hwy development together, and then down to Silo Point. A very Miami'ish skyline, with Baltimore flair, which I don't think is a bad thing.

Question: how did Hale get past Kraft and Strohl to get the Canton Crossing project underway?

StevenW

September 14th, 2005, 02:21 AM

"Question: how did Hale get past Kraft and Strohl to get the Canton Crossing project underway?"

Good question.......

scottbbfm

September 14th, 2005, 03:20 AM

not that I'm against this project at all, but I think everyone should realize that this is a very, very tight site, and I can imagine how some people may be opposed to the density of the area. There is only a very skinny parking lot between Tindeco and those shops and apt building that is there. Everyone should look at the satellite pic on google (I wish i knew how to post that) and Imagine 2 15+ story buildings on the site.

Based on the PUD, the broad side of the building does not face the water. However, I think this should be a benefit to the developer and community because it would in essence block fewer water views. You can't really see the water that well from ground level at that site anyway, its blocked by the yacht club and bo brooks. However it would block the view down Boston Street from a fairly significant distance. But as we all agree, its a very elegant view!

Good luck to this developer!

Furiine

September 14th, 2005, 03:53 AM

The design is bland, but some bland is nice. This building gives bland a great name, because it's make to look bold and pretty classy looking.

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 04:12 AM

The thing I like most about this project is that both the hotel and condo units are on the same parcel. They appear to be of the slim and tall variety, which is the very best for any resident with a water view. It isn't like the developer is trying to block the view from those in rowhouses; they've made an attempt, and in my opinion, a successful attempt at satisfying the wants and needs of the Canton community.

Gsol

September 14th, 2005, 04:52 AM

The project looks like a mini United Nations Tower. What a great addition this would be to the skyline. It's one of the best I've seen proposed in quite a while. Of course some of the best proposals have not been build like the original One Light St.

Did someone mention there were gas tanks on the site? If so how could the community not feel this proposal is better than looking at gas tanks?

StevenW

September 14th, 2005, 11:08 AM

NewBaltimore1980

September 14th, 2005, 02:05 PM

so beautiful, so elegant, so gracious, so nice. it would fit PERFECTLY with the area in canton. you can count me in at that meeting on Tuesday, September 27th. i'll definitely be there

http://www.iconatcanton.com/images/icon.jpg

I will be there as well, and I will stand up to Mr. Strohl. They problem with CAnton is that the majority of residents want development, but they don't want to waste their time on the Canton Community Assoc and its pessimistic outlook on life. Therefore the people who want to continue growth don't go to the meetings.

NewBaltimore1980

September 14th, 2005, 02:09 PM

Go Ms. Dixon!!!

"Baltimore's planning director said this week that people can't kill a perfectly reasonable development just like that" - Quote of the Day!

Proposal for high-rise in Canton resurrected
City panel to review plan; Dixon considers support
By Jill Rosen
Sun Staff
Originally published September 14, 2005
Plans presumed dead for a Canton waterfront high-rise are very much alive.

Despite intense community opposition and a vow in August by the councilman representing Canton not to support the project, Baltimore's planning director said this week that people can't kill a perfectly reasonable development just like that.

"That kind of attitude of 'We don't want anything' is not acceptable," Otis Rolley III said. "I don't think it's necessarily the best idea just to shut stuff down."

Canton residents, who thought they had quashed the plan for a 30-story condominium tower and a 15-story hotel on a Lighthouse Point parking lot, were appalled to learn that the Icon proposal is back - and unchanged. The city's architectural review board will consider the design tomorrow morning.

"We're just in a state of shock. We're very, very, very upset that this is even being considered," said David Keller, a member of the Canton Cove condominium association board. "We believe that 'Just say no' is the proper response."

Officials with Cignal Corp., Icon's developer, insist the project, with distinctive architecture and destination restaurants, is one that people in Southeast Baltimore should embrace.

"We're still committed to an absolute landmark, signature building," said Marco Greenberg, Cignal's vice president. "We're still very convinced that the project will bring excitement and energy to Canton."

Keller and other community leaders are certainly excited and energized - furiously e-mailing and strategizing, trying to figure out how to stop the development.

Their general sentiment is that the Icon's height and density are too much for the neighborhood.

Cignal, a Maryland firm known in Southeast Baltimore for upscale residential projects such as the North Shore pier homes, wants to transform Lighthouse Point, which it bought an interest in this year.

The idea is to fill in the nondescript retail nook, now home to a handful of shops including a bagel place and a Blockbuster video store, with a hotel and high-end stores and restaurants.

Anchoring it all would be a 295-foot condo tower, a sleek glass-and-metal high-rise that would easily dwarf everything on that side of the harbor. A head-turning building that people can't miss is the goal.

Rolley, who advocates using density to revive urban settings, sees little wrong with Cignal's proposal. He's confident that somewhere between the developer's sweeping plan and the community's visceral distrust lies a compromise.

"I'm not fully comfortable with the height and density, but I think we can get there very quickly," he said.

But Cignal needs more than Rolley's support to build the Icon.

To proceed, the firm needs the City Council to approve a major amendment to Lighthouse Point's planned unit development. The amendment would allow Cignal to build more on the property than the city had permitted the original developer.

To get the matter before the council, a council member has to introduce a bill. Councilman James B. Kraft appeared to have blocked the project a month ago by refusing to do that.

Kraft said this week that unless the community warmed to the plan, he would not introduce the legislation. However, Council President Sheila Dixon is considering it.

Dixon said yesterday that she has met with the developer and will attend a community association meeting in Canton this month.

"I don't know all the issues, and with all the development going on in that community, I'm sure there are a whole host of issues," she said. "I need to hear both sides and look at what's going to be best for the community and the city."

Though city planners say the Lighthouse Point planned unit development is built out, Greenberg said Cignal believes the company could build something smaller there without a major amendment. But that "something" would probably be shorter and squatter, blocking views to the water in ways that a tall, slender tower would not.

"Do you allow that to happen or do you work out a compromise?" Dixon asked, pointing out that with a shorter building, "The community could be even more upset."

Greenberg said Cignal preferred the taller buildings - it's the design, he said, "that makes the most sense." He said Cignal was willing to listen to community input, "as long as that input is not saying we can't build anything."

The Icon is designed to complement redevelopment efforts Cignal has already begun at Lighthouse Point.

The firm is making drastic changes to the boat hotel there, a four-level structure used for boat storage, apartments and the small shopping area with the Blockbuster and other stores.

The company is replacing the boat storage with 57 condos and parking and dressing up the warehouse-style exterior.

Altogether, Greenberg and city planners say, the Icon and the boat hotel renovations will transform a forgettable plaza into a hot spot.

That's exactly what community leaders fear. Boston Street can't handle the traffic, they say, and the lot can't handle the development.

"The community at large is a little suspicious of a building that tall and that concentrated in that space," said Steven Strohl, president of the Canton Community Association.

Longtime Canton homeowner Marcy Sagel knows she's in the minority, but she said such development would keep the neighborhood thriving.

"I was impressed, and I told them I was impressed," she said. "I thought the architecture was pretty fabulous."

At a hastily called meeting over the weekend at Kraft's office to try to smooth relations between Cignal executives and community leaders, the reception was considerably cooler.

The meeting apparently served mainly to rekindle neighborhood outrage that cooled in the month after people assumed the project was foiled.

"I think," Strohl said, "both sides felt, 'Why don't they get it?'"

Brian21

September 14th, 2005, 03:19 PM

Thanks for posting that article NewBaltimore,
So theres a good chance that this project will go forward. Awesome :)

Pinoy2.0

September 14th, 2005, 04:18 PM

Hey guys...I was wondering if you could answer my question (couldn't find it skimming through all these damn Baltimore Development threads!). What is the pretty large structure being built in Baltimore? :) I was just up there ( I lived up there for 5 years, but not good w/directions) and going from Edmonson to 95 to Exit 36 or Exit 38...anyway there was large (Huge) steel structure on the left side of I-95 (maybe near O'Donnell street???) about 12 stories high already. Sorry for the ambiguity and my sense of horrid directions.

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 04:33 PM

Gsol

September 14th, 2005, 04:36 PM

The Sunpaper online page in teasing the story seemed to take a negative view of it. The tease was "Congested Plan for High-rise in Canton is Resurrected." They are already editorialzing by the use of the word "Congestion" right up front.

If any of you guys have any clout in that community use it. Get people to write to Counsel President Dixon, she could be a powerful ally. She becomes mayor if O'Malley makes it into the governor's office. What a landmark project this would be and a real feather in her cap.

Pinoy2.0

September 14th, 2005, 04:40 PM

Ok, thanks...I think that's it. It's prob. def. it if you can see it from I-95.

On a side note:

Man, I'd love to know what went on to get that bad part of Canton into what is now Ray Lewis' grill - that small strip mall (GNC/CVS type stores)...some condo/apt.'s near the waterfont on the other side of the street...to go along with all those nice little restaurants. That place was crack houses a few years ago! Amazing. I wonder how they do that.

Molo

September 14th, 2005, 05:31 PM

They did it by allowing forward thinkers in to invest big bucks.

The CCA plants flowers and has bitch sessions.
Movers and shakers transform drug strips into communities.

The Inner Harbor was objected to right??
Look at it now. The objectors of that don't do TV interviews now. They don't want anyone to know they don't have vision for a greater Baltimore.

Harbor East was what?? I don't even know. Look at it now. It may become the CLD (central living district) in the city.

People want to invest an move into Baltimore after years of neglect. How can anyone want that trend to reverse itself??

Capt.B

September 14th, 2005, 05:41 PM

Hey guys. First time becomming a member and posting, but I've been reading for a while. All of this stuff is so interesting and right up my alley.

I live outside baltimore, and bring charter boats in from Annapolis all of the time.

My favorite area by far is Locust Point, and I have been following Silo Point, which is how I first learned of this forum months ago. At the time, I was looking at buying a shell on Reynolds Street. In fact, it was probably one of the rowhouses pictured with the silos in the background (a few pages back). After seeing the preliminary renderings for silo point, I am kicking myself already. You guys may or may not know, but, at least at the time, There was an agreement with the developer whereby they were allowing each rowhouse on that side a Reynolds a small plot for a parking pad or even garage. The unit is very close to the silos as it is, but even so, I'd love such a great building behind my house. They make window shades to keep people from looking in your windows... Not to mention the completion of Slio Point should send property values skyrocketing even more all throughout Locust Point. Can't wait to see that project completed.

Everything in Canton looks great as well. With how I have seen Baltimore all of these years, I am most familiar with the waterside, and every new building going up looks even larger from the harbor.

Keep up the good work, and as I learn of any developments I'll comment as I can.

B

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 05:43 PM

Hey, maybe the CCA is concerned for the well being of the city rats. I mean if you take away all of the open fields and unattended lots where grass grows six feet in the air (which might obstruct some of their view of the water), where will all the rats have to run and play and carry diseases?? I mean, what's a city without happy rats??? I think the CCA is anti-development and pro-rats! *rolls eyes*

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 05:57 PM

Hey Capt. B! Welcome to the forum. I'm excited about silo point as well. For me to see this bulky grain elevator change into a beautiful centerpiece for Locust Point, is really a great feeling.

BTW, as I'm sure you've noticed, we shoot the shit quite a lot on different developments as they arrise. Feel free to add your two cents as well!

Hugh Jaramillo

September 14th, 2005, 06:19 PM

ICON at Canton Tower Development

First of all welcome to all of the new posters to this forum. I hope that you will find it as interesting and informative as I do on keeping abreast of development issues in the Baltimore metro area. We have an interesting assortment of individuals and I hope that the new posters will feel free to share their views/opinons on this forum.

I don't want to get my hopes up too high just yet, but I am really glad that the ICON at Canton development is back in the running. I just hope that this time the nay sayers will be exposed for what they really are, petty and ignorant individuals who's only interest is to hold up progess that in Baltimore has been slow in coming after many, many years of neglect and abandonment. I just wonder what drives these small minded people but they are just not representative of public opionion as a whole, they just make it seem like that when they constantly are saying NO to everything that is being proposed. If I can make it I would like to go to the meeting on the 27th and voice my opinion too, even though I don't live in the neighbourhood I think things like this have major implications for the health and survival of the city in general!

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 06:36 PM

If I can make it I would like to go to the meeting on the 27th and voice my opinion too, even though I don't live in the neighbourhood I think things like this have major implications for the health and survival of the city in general!

My thoughts exactly! I'm going to the meeting as a representative of the City of Baltimore.

jpreston02

September 14th, 2005, 07:48 PM

While I do love the proposed tower and am certainly for the project, there are two issues that stand out with any significant development like this in a residential area: traffic & parking. Now if the developers and the city are confident that neither of those issues will present a problem, then what else is there really?

As has been discussed, the CCA seems to be pretty anti-development. They present the position that everyone in Canton hates this project. Like NewBalt says, I am sure they are radically misrepresenting the entire community's position.

Here in Locust Point we'll be hearing from Mark Sapperstein tonight who now owns the Chesapeak Paperboard site. Supposedly he's contemplating a commercial center with avenue-type shopping, a big box store, medical center and other businesses, all with access from Key Highway.

I have a feeling that Key Highway is on it's way to becoming the Boston Street of South Baltimore. There's numerous projects ongoing right now on Key Highway, and they haven't even finished the new urban renewal plan! I can't wait to see some towers like the one proposed for Canton come to the Key Highway corridor. If the economy holds out, it's going to be a busy 5-10 years.

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 08:02 PM

Hensel Phelps picked to build convention hotel

O'Malley calls Colo. company 'premier contractor'; Employee-owned business listed among top construction firms for such projects

By A Sun Staff Writer
Originally published September 14, 2005, 12:20 PM EDT

Mayor Martin O'Malley and City Council President Sheila Dixon today announced the selection of Hensel Phelps Construction Co. as the design-builder for a 750-room Baltimore Convention Center headquarters hotel.

Hensel Phelps was pre-qualified by the Baltimore Development Corporation in March for the hotel project and was selected from the three respondents to the city's request for proposals. The other respondents were FaulknerUSA of Austin, Texas, and Whiting-Turner Contracting Company of Baltimore.

"I am proud today to announce the selection of Hensel Phelps as the design-builder for the Baltimore Convention Center headquarters hotel," O'Malley said. "The city of Baltimore is ranked among the world's best tourist destinations, and today it is only appropriate that we choose a premier contractor to build our city's premier hotel."

In a release, the mayor's office said that the Greeley, Colo., company was picked based on its experience, financial records, litigation and safety record, with the expectation that, given its detailed price submission combined with its hotel experience and designing and building expertise, the company will complete the project within the budget.

Employee-owned and founded in 1937, Hensel Phelps' eastern division is based in Chantilly, Va.

The company has also been involved in the Hyatt Denver Convention Center hotel (2005); the Renaissance Providence Hotel (2005); the Southwest Airlines terminal at Baltimore-Washington International Airport (2005); the San Jose, Calif., Marriott (2003); the Pittsburgh Marriott Renaissance (2001); the Sacramento, Calif., Sheraton Grand Hotel (1999); and the Pentagon renovations (through 2010).

Hensel Phelps is listed among the Engineering News Record's (ENR) top 100 design-build or construction managers-at-risk firms, as well as ENR's top 25 builders of hotels, motels and convention centers.

The Baltimore Convention Center headquarters hotel will be constructed on city-owned lots bounded by Pratt, Howard, Camden, Russell and Paca streets in the Inner Harbor West urban renewal area.

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 08:08 PM

jpreston02

September 14th, 2005, 09:35 PM

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 10:22 PM

Ah yes, the Rec center. I spent many afternoons there after school. I went to Francis Scott Key # 76. I forgot that I have a dinner date tonight at 8, so I most likely won't be able to make it. If you feel like it, let us know what went down. I'm very anxious to hear about it.

I know what you mean about Port Covington. It's pretty secluded. From Hanover Street you'd have no clue that there was anything behind Locke Insulator.

I agree that something must be done about McComas Street. Unfortunately with I-95 directly overhead, I don't know what can be done.

At the RAG meeting a few months ago, we heard from the Baltimore Aquarium about their expansion plans that's going to be by the Hanover Street Bridge. Anyway, in one of their illustrations, the intersection at Hanover and Cromwell would be converted into a traffic circle. I don't particularly care for them, but I think it would be better then what's going on there now.

StevenW

September 14th, 2005, 10:23 PM

1st of all, WELCOME Pinoy2.0 and Capt. B! Please feel free to post any time. :D
We are glad to have you here! :)

About the above article, look at this part: "Rolley, who advocates using density to revive urban settings, sees little wrong with Cignal's proposal. He's confident that somewhere between the developer's sweeping plan and the community's visceral distrust lies a compromise.

"I'm not fully comfortable with the height and density, but I think we can get there very quickly," he said."

He has a problem with the height and density. :( That probably means that this project, (if built at all), will end up being two small towers at 10 to 15 stories each. :(

I hope not! As a matter of fact I'd love it if someone at the meeting, (uhem!), would raise the question of perhaps a taller, more slender tower, say 40 stories tall! ;)

:)

StevenW

September 14th, 2005, 10:30 PM

Just got this e-mail in today, check it out:

1st, my e-mail to them:

"Hi,

What can you tell me about the proposed 30 story tower at 2700 Boston
Street? I hope it gets built. It's nice. Do you have renderings of it? More
info is appreciated. Thanks.

Steve Wyatt"

And now, their responce:

"Steve:

Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding our newest project in the 2700
block of Boston Street. If you have not already done so, you may view
renderings at www.iconatcanton.com.

By copy of this e-mail, I am requesting Marco Greenberg of our staff to
provide you with some additional information. Thank you again for your
interest in our development projects.

Joe Maranto
jm@cignalcorp.com "

----------------------------
Well, sounds good. When I get the info I'll let you guys know what it is. :D

MasonsInquiries

September 14th, 2005, 10:30 PM

HOWDY Pinoy2.0 and Capt. B. Welcome to the forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MasonsInquiries

September 14th, 2005, 10:46 PM

MasonsInquiries

September 14th, 2005, 11:02 PM

I will be there as well, and I will stand up to Mr. Strohl. They problem with CAnton is that the majority of residents want development, but they don't want to waste their time on the Canton Community Assoc and its pessimistic outlook on life. Therefore the people who want to continue growth don't go to the meetings.

i think we'll all have a couple of choice words for mr. strohl......lol. might be more than he can handle.

StevenW

September 14th, 2005, 11:12 PM

good link: http://baltimore.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2005/09/12/daily24.html?jst=b_ln_hl

:D

Pinoy2.0

September 14th, 2005, 11:15 PM

Thanks Steven and Mason.

I was wondering, is there a page where all the renderings and status of proposed/approved/pending/etc projects are instead of sifting through all these Bmore threads/pages? I feel kinda lost reading every post (from 2002) trying to figure out what's what. :)

Anyway, I was wondering what the five (or so) tallest buildings (mixed use, office, residential...whatever) that are being planned in/near Bmore are. Excluding the Icon and the mariner bank...

StevenW

September 14th, 2005, 11:18 PM

i just went on Hensel Phelps website. i've never heard of them, but it looks like they do pretty good work. i think we should be expecting something much more classier & sleekier than that boxy piece of Sh@#$%*& from RTKL.

www.henselphelps.com/projectexperience.htm

I hope it's better. :)

SoBoChris

September 14th, 2005, 11:53 PM

The Locust Point Civic Association is meeting tonight at 7:30 in the Locust Point Recreation center at 1627 Fort Avenue. (Fort & Richardson).

My dinner plans fell through. I'll be able to make it to the meeting.

Capt.B

September 14th, 2005, 11:54 PM

Pinoy, from what I have gathered, there are a number of planned, or at least talked about, high rises coming. most are pictured at some point in the posts.

Silo Point, the old ADM grain elevator in Locust point, is to be converted into upscale condominiums, parking garage, and other mixed use.

300 Pratt and One Light Street are talked about frequently on the forums, but while there have been renderings, the seem somewhat back-burner.

There's another I am not as familair with called St Francis. I may be wrong, but someone will correct me there.

a few downtown hotels are planned, but not extremely tall, the convention center and the Westin.

Well there's a start anyway.

Hood

September 15th, 2005, 12:04 AM

The Locust Point Civic Association is meeting tonight at 7:30 in the Locust Point Recreation center at 1627 Fort Avenue. (Fort & Richardson).

I just heard big box, I didn't hear Target. Wow, I didn't realize the site was so big. That would be great to have a Target so close. WalMart is pretty ghetto, I know what you mean. But I think the worst part about Port Covington is the terrible access roads and signage from Key Highway. After moving to Baltimore it took me 8 months just to figure out where the heck Walmart was. They really need to blow up McComas street and reconfigure it.

Even from Hanover you can't take a left onto E. Cromwell, you have to turn right and then go straight. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Access from the highway is awful as well. If they want more shops (as were planned) to go in there, they need to fix the traffic flow problem! My guess is that retail numbers are down there simply because people feel it's too much of a hassle to get there, even though it's so close to South Baltimore. Just my 2 cents.

Big box brings desolate parking lots, crime (most of the RAG reported crime happens at port covington and this target will become ghetto like that since everyone who can drive to wal mart will drive to target) and traffic from the rest of the City. I am very much against that site becoming another slice of uninspiried development. Lets get smart and put a place not a sea of asphalt and a big box. Lets increase the street grid, and add come mixed use density. Some housing, stores, offices. Lets make our neighobrho more alive, not dead.

StevenW

September 15th, 2005, 12:14 AM

1. St. Regis Hotel/condos/retail/parking tower: (This one will be announced sometime this Month!) This tower C-O-U-L-D be Baltimore new TALLEST! :) We'll see! :D
2. The Zenith: a 23 story condo at Paca and Pratt streets. (Being built right now.)
3. One Light Street: a condo/apartment project that is in "limbo" right now. J.J. Clarkes project. It's latest rendering shows a 25 story tower. Probably no taller 300 ft. tall.
4. 300 East Pratt Street: a favorite of mine personally. Last rendered as a 34 story condo/apartment tower with parking and retail. Probably no taller than 400 ft. tall. It was supposed to be announced sometime this month or next month.
5. Water Place Tower: at 414 Water Street. a 32 story tower (including the already existing garage) that will have apartments and condos, I believe. It will be 341 ft. tall. Construction is to start in a month I believe.
6. Conway Street Westin (Believe Team) Hotel. On HOLD for now. It was a 43 story hotel that would have risen to over 446 ft. tall. If the hotel is brought back to fruition it might be scaled down a bit. :(
7. The Vue: a condo tower in Harbor East. it will be over 300 ft. tall and around 29 stories. Construction has already started. :) I like this one, too. :D
8. could someone else please fill in the rest? :D
..........

SoBoChris

September 15th, 2005, 12:32 AM

Big box brings desolate parking lots, crime (most of the RAG reported crime happens at port covington and this target will become ghetto like that since everyone who can drive to wal mart will drive to target) and traffic from the rest of the City. I am very much against that site becoming another slice of uninspiried development. Lets get smart and put a place not a sea of asphalt and a big box. Lets increase the street grid, and add come mixed use density. Some housing, stores, offices. Lets make our neighobrho more alive, not dead.

I don't think its the ones who drive that cause the crime as much as it is those to catch the bus. The #64 bus runs right through Cherry Hill which is about as ghetto as you can get. The bus makes a stop at Port Covington. Of course the #1 bus runs along Fort Avenue, but it doesn't go anywhere near Cherry Hill. I don't think Cherry Hill residents will make the effort to go to a Target that you need two buses to get to, when you have the Wal-mart right there.

I don't know what I feel about this Target. Initially it sounds exciting to have it right down the street, but I may change my mind after the meeting.

Are you going, Jeff?

scottbbfm

September 15th, 2005, 01:23 AM

Another Tower Crane is going up in Harbor East, located on top of the location of the Vue....things are moving along

JAB323

September 15th, 2005, 02:32 AM

Hey, StevenW you said something about a St. Regis Rendering, couldn't find it on their website

StevenW

September 15th, 2005, 03:25 AM

No, I meant I got a rendering of another project going up at Harbor Point done by "Star Hotels", the company that runs St. Regis as one of it's brands. There has not been any renderings released of the proposed St. Regis tower yet. Like I've said before, this month sometime the announcement will be made concerning their plans and perhaps some renderings of this most exciting project. I e-mailed them several weeks ago and they said this tower will be "World Class", "Very Tall", perhaps a "New Tallest for Baltimore", and of the best quality in design. Boy oh BOY! I can't wait! :D

StevenW

September 15th, 2005, 03:28 AM

Another Tower Crane is going up in Harbor East, located on top of the location of the Vue....things are moving along

Yes, the VUE will be the tallest tower for Harbor East so far, so it should make for a truly exciting "watch and see" show! ;)
And just imagine when the 4 Seasons towers go up! :D :D :D One tower should rise close to 300 ft. maybe. At least 280 ft. tall. :) :runaway:

scottbbfm

September 15th, 2005, 04:08 AM

Well as far as I know, the Marriott is still going to be the tallest over there....I ate at James Joyce tonight (pub in harbor east) Construction has moved to the second floor of 800 alceianna. The second tower crane only has the 'tower' part setup as of tonight, no 'crane' Saw no signs of the parking lot being broken ground on (where the seasons is going to be)....James Joyce prefered you to park there and would validate for $4

PeterSmith

September 15th, 2005, 12:20 PM

Well, I won't be able to make it to the Canton meeting, but I'll be sure to write the officials about my feelings. Someone said they will be attending not as a resident of Canton, but as a resident of the City of Baltimore. It is very important for us all to exercise this right. Canton is BLESSED to be located on Baltimore's waterfront. Most neighborhoods don't have such priviledges. And we can all agree that the waterfront is the lifestream of Baltimore. In being situated so, Canton is one of the premier places that developers look to when they are looking to invest in Baltimore. It isn't fair for the residents of Canton to deny the other areas of the city such capital investments. The residents of Canton may be satisfied with things staying the same in their quiet streets and flower gardens, but for the rest of the city this means economic stagnation, which inevitably leads to economic decline - because big business is not satisfied with stagnation, only growth. If investment is turned away from Canton, can we really expect investors to look elsewhere in the city? If the Icon is not built, is it logical to think the developers will turn to a vacant lot on Greenmount Avenue for their project? Not likely. Understandably, Canton residents enjoy their way of life, and don't want that to change. But they are choosing the live a certain way at the expense of others. For most people in the city of Baltimore development isn't a matter of whether they want it or not, it's a matter of need. They need it to better their way of life. They needs the jobs and they needs the tax revenue to go towards schools, infrastructure, law enforcement, etc. Development breeds more development. And for the majority of the city, and cities everywhere, we survive on that principle. If you're not growing, you're in decline. Stagnation is not a permanent charactersitc. It's only a small minority that can afford to sit on their hands and not think about anything save the parking space outside their window. That's how I feel at least...course my judgment is clouded by how beautiful that building would look in our skyline, so don't take me seriously.

SoBoChris

September 15th, 2005, 02:54 PM

Okay, here's the jist of last night's meeting for Locust Point. There will not be any big box stores in Locust Point. After coming to my senses, I realized that would have been a bad idea. Now the developer, Mark Sapperstein, indends on putting in boutique type stores. Specialty grocery stores like Graul's or Eddie's were mentioned as a possible tennant. A few residential units were also in his plans. One major selling point I believe was that an opening would be made along Key Hwy for traffic to come and go instead of relying solely on Fort Avenue and Woodall Street.

We voted to endorse the concept of changing the zoning of the site from the current heavy industrial, to mixed use.

Also, Silo Point was mentioned since Mark Sapperstein is involved in that as well.

It seems pretty certain that the silos must go. They are said to be structurally unsound.

Also, the extention of Key Highway deep into Locust Point was said to have been started. I believe it will be a year before it is open to traffic.

jpreston02

September 15th, 2005, 03:11 PM

I don't think its the ones who drive that cause the crime as much as it is those to catch the bus. The #64 bus runs right through Cherry Hill which is about as ghetto as you can get. The bus makes a stop at Port Covington. Of course the #1 bus runs along Fort Avenue, but it doesn't go anywhere near Cherry Hill. I don't think Cherry Hill residents will make the effort to go to a Target that you need two buses to get to, when you have the Wal-mart right there.

I don't know what I feel about this Target. Initially it sounds exciting to have it right down the street, but I may change my mind after the meeting.

Are you going, Jeff?

Initially I was excited at the prospect of this kind of retail so close. But as I thought about it some more I realized that, as the ever insightful JeffBaltimore points out, Big Box is desolate and would not at all maintain the urban fabric of South Baltimore/Locust Point.

That being said, Big Box on that site is dead. Sapperstein met with a few members of Locust Point and realized that was not the best kind of use for this stellar 20 something acre property. So the meeting commenced with some consultants from a Bethesda consulting firm who specialize in mixed-use projects. Their presentation, though off-topic and too long, gave some insight into other mixed-use projects that they've been apart of. I think it will be good to have them on board.

Many residents raised concerns such as contamination, traffic and parking. Ultimately though, with the main entrance on Key Highway, hopefully Locust Point can avoid any traffic problems. There's no significant contamination to speak of, and the site will contain ample parking.

There's no design yet, and no sq. foot numbers on retail. But Sapperstein wants to build a mixed-use with residential (an apartment tower), a boutique grocer and a mix of other retail. Like I said it's all preliminary because the property is zoned industrial. So Otis Reilly was there fielding questions on zoning. In order for this project to happen, Sapperstein will have to go through a PUD process and the Planning department will need to amend the master plan of Locust Point.

However, when it was all said and done, the community voted overwhelmingly to support in concept a mixed use development on that property. There will be a steering committee to lead the community involvement in the PUD process. I think the planning department, and Ed Reisenger our councilman, will be supporting the project based upon the results of the civic association vote.

I'm not sure how tall the tower will be. Because of all the hostility in the room I didn't want to raise a contentious issue like height. (By asking Otis about height restrictions on the LP master plan).

So it'll surely be a long process. But it's all part of what's changing in South Baltimore/Locust Point and I'm exctied to be a part of the process.