View Full Version : Roundabouts: the whirlpool of life
Fargo Wolf July 7th, 2011, 02:20 AM Story from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13863498
Also includes a subsection in the differences between roundabouts and rotaries (which have different rules than roundabouts).
brewerfan386 July 12th, 2011, 10:09 AM Cheesy video about roundabouts by WisDOT:
P25WbwX2z5c
joshsam July 12th, 2011, 04:21 PM ^^Still don't get why there are so many vids about roundabouts in the USA on you tube? How many decades are do these thing are already in use?
ChrisZwolle July 12th, 2011, 04:27 PM Roundabouts are non-existent in many areas of the United States. In other areas, they were just introduced recently, just like turbo roundabouts are not yet very common in Europe.
Road_UK July 12th, 2011, 05:08 PM Any plans of getting rid of the Joure? (my English colleagues call it The Dzjoer Roundabout - see you at McDonalds) I always go that way from Calais to Northern Germany / Scandinavia, and so do my colleagues now, seeing that my nan in Sneek gives them breakfast and coffee whenever they're passing. We've managed to upset the locals once by blocking the street with five British registered vans!)
ChrisZwolle July 12th, 2011, 05:16 PM Joure is quite a bizarre name.
J as Y in you
ou as in (j)aw but replace the a with an o = ow
re = ruh
The J is neither pronounced like in French nor English.
Road_UK July 12th, 2011, 05:22 PM That roundabout is just as bizarre as the name of the place. But the burgers are good on the side of it. At peak times there are queues coming from either Sneek or Groningen. So at times they put slow moving vehicles on that roundabout, apparently to ease merging in traffic, but I reckon they are doing it to ensure queues on the roundabout itself...
mgk920 July 12th, 2011, 06:09 PM ^^Still don't get why there are so many vids about roundabouts in the USA on you tube? How many decades are do these thing are already in use?
They are very new in much of the USA, only appearing in any numbers here in Wisconsin since 2000. WisDOT (State of Wisconsin Department of Transportation) is building them all over the place now.
The public is still in its learning phase regarding them.
Mike
EricIsHim July 13th, 2011, 02:52 AM ^^Still don't get why there are so many vids about roundabouts in the USA on you tube? How many decades are do these thing are already in use?
The first actual real modern roundabout was only built in 1990 in Nevada just outside Vegas. But the rapid growth has only begun in the past 10 years, with just over 2000 roundabouts in the entire country, and highly concentrated in certain state in certain areas only. It is completely new to many people in the US.
julioacuesta September 10th, 2011, 04:17 AM Aquí en Perú no funcionan los óvalos, debido a que los conductores no respetan al peatón.
Saludos desde Perú.
////////////////////
Here in Peru do not work roundabouts because drivers do not respect pedestrians.
Greetings from Peru.
Penn's Woods October 27th, 2011, 05:48 PM A European (Belgian, specifically) point of view on proliferating roundabouts, for those who read French.
I'll translate when (1) I have time and (2) I have my reading glasses (which I forgot today), unless someone else feels like doing it first. The first link is an article by a political scientist that caught my eye; the second is from the same paper's car blog, commenting on the article.
http://www.lesoir.be/debats/chroniques/2011-10-25/la-civilisation-du-rond-point-872402.php
http://blog.lesoir.be/en-voiture-simone/2011/10/25/securite-routiere-un-politologue-evoque-la-surenchere/
joshsam October 28th, 2011, 04:58 PM ^^You don't have to do so much effort. French-->English google translation works surprisingly well. Interesting articles!
Penn's Woods October 28th, 2011, 05:41 PM ^^You don't have to do so much effort. French-->English google translation works surprisingly well. Interesting articles!
Still haven't found my reading glasses, so several paragraphs of French.... I saw that the articles were there, posted them here and made a mental note to read them.
Bought those glasses just last week, when I left the previous pair in a hotel near Chicago (which was the second time in three months I'd done that :bash: ), so I've been resisting assuming these are lost. But at this point, I'm tired of squinting at everything; I'll have to buy a new pair at lunchtime.
joshsam October 28th, 2011, 05:43 PM ^^It's gonna get expensive if you do that a lot :D
Penn's Woods October 28th, 2011, 05:51 PM ^^Non-prescription reading glasses cost $20 or less, if you don't care what they look like. But it all adds up; spent $600 on car maintenance this week too.
poshbakerloo October 28th, 2011, 06:38 PM Sheffield, England loves its roundabouts!
Here are some of the biggest and best!
From top left: Moore Street, St Mary's Gate, Arundle Gate & the big one aka Park Square
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x48/poshbakerloo/Roundabouts.jpg
italystf October 29th, 2011, 11:33 AM Modena, Italy: railway crosses a roundabout:
vVH_Fpn3BY0&feature=related
Nowax October 29th, 2011, 08:05 PM Krakow
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/5/2/9552.1314860813.jpg
bogdymol October 29th, 2011, 08:16 PM ^^ Am I the only one that noticed something is wrong in this so called roundabout?
jeremiash October 29th, 2011, 09:13 PM Well for one thing, it's not a roundabout, it just has roundabout in it's name (Rondo Grunwaldzkie, rondo meaning roundabout) :P Besides that it's just an intersection that is very functional for public transport. So you're right in noticing there's something wrong :)
Micbuk October 29th, 2011, 10:04 PM Try ...
The Magic Roundabout in Swindon, England was constructed in 1972 and consists of five mini-roundabouts arranged in a circle. It is located near the County Ground, home of Swindon Town F.C. Its name comes from the popular children's television series The Magic Roundabout. In 2009 it was voted the fourth scariest junction in Britain,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Magic_Roundabout_Schild_db.jpg/250px
Did you say no left or right turn ????
Right
Chilio October 29th, 2011, 11:24 PM Some new pictures of one of the few roundabouts in Bulgaria's capital, opened last year on Sofia's Ring Road (transit traffic on it goes directly beneath):
http://dariknews.bg/uploads/photo_topics/201110/photo_big_110194.jpg
http://dariknews.bg/uploads/photo_topics/201110/photo_big_110192.jpg
Source, with a lot of aerials of Sofia and infrastructure (http://dariknews.bg/view_photo_topic.php?photo_topic_id=4550&see_all=1)
P.S. Plus a bonus - why should people not try to go transit through roundabouts:
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/272/38743220.jpg
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8672/71024268.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/892/90664567.jpg
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/3699/56670670.jpg
Source of these pictures (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=67397347&postcount=1455)
Verso October 30th, 2011, 02:09 AM Krakow
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/5/2/9552.1314860813.jpg
Why is the lane for turning left (in the middle of the roundabout), right of the lane for driving straight forward? Ok, you'd have to make some turns, if you drove straight forward, but it still looks weird.
bogdymol October 30th, 2011, 08:07 AM Why is the lane for turning left (in the middle of the roundabout), right of the lane for driving straight forward? Ok, you'd have to make some turns, if you drove straight forward, but it still looks weird.
I was thinking at the same thing (look on the previous page).
ChrisZwolle October 30th, 2011, 10:16 AM It may be a bus facility in case bus and tram arrive at the same time.
jeremiash October 30th, 2011, 12:31 PM The inside of the "roundabout" is only for buses and trams. The inside lane is for trams mostly, that's why they made it a "forward" lane for buses as well. The outside lanes in the middle are for buses only.
Chilio November 2nd, 2011, 01:07 PM Another, more classical roundabout in Sofia:
http://dariknews.bg/uploads/photo_topics/201110/photo_big_110086.jpg
MattiG November 2nd, 2011, 02:58 PM Two unusual cases from Finland:
Pori. Intersection of two boulevards. For some reason, it is organized as a roundabout by just adding some traffic signs:
http://www.mattigronroos.fi/etc/Pori1.jpg
http://www.mattigronroos.fi/etc/Pori2.jpg
Does not look a roundabout.
Helsinki: A roundabout crossed by a street reserved for buses. In addition, there is a railroad, but it is currently not in regular use:
http://www.mattigronroos.fi/etc/Viikki1.jpg
The bus street runs from top-left to bottom-left.
http://www.mattigronroos.fi/etc/Viikki2.jpg
Non-standard traffic lights protect the bus street. Normally, similar ones are used at railroad and tramway crossings.
When the lights turn red, the whole roundabout traffic may be interrupted, because of waiting cars blocking the traffic flow.
rohjoe November 4th, 2011, 10:52 AM Railway Roundabout at intersection of Brooker Ave & Liverpool St, Hobart.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QX9U_xZRrfA/TrOjSXKg24I/AAAAAAAAAXM/Jhsi51a0F40/s800/Hobart.jpg
Some earlier views from the 1960s
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_Qvf0VJF5Do/TrOjQeLT4UI/AAAAAAAAAW8/0g0v6akiUbU/s800/Hobart%252520old%2525202.jpg
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1o03G3RaQio/TrOjQB8BkZI/AAAAAAAAAW4/mtgUvC665Ug/s800/Hobart%252520old.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2OaZLfIGH_A/TrOjPtM0hkI/AAAAAAAAAW0/y8VlSvycpro/s800/Hobart%252520%252520Railway%252520Roundabout.jpg
Archives Office of Tasmania
Penn's Woods November 4th, 2011, 04:56 PM ^^Why's it called "Railway Roundabout"? I see no sign of a railway. (Are there any on Tasmania?)
joshsam November 4th, 2011, 05:37 PM ^^Looks to me that roundabout could have a metrostop underneath?
gabrielbabb November 4th, 2011, 08:54 PM Some of Mexico City
Independence Angel Roundabout
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0J6wiDolkRE/TIElo2KuH_I/AAAAAAAAAKE/7Jmae2-0KrY/s640/Angelndep.jpg
Diana Cazadora (Hunter Diana) Roundabout
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4108/5060077347_21c87a05b3.jpg
Glorieta de Insurgentes
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ogOpjRLP3hA/S9VMJZ71uRI/AAAAAAAAANA/YW5TWCzdPk4/s1600/glorieta-insurgentes.jpg
Palm Roundabout
http://www.mexicomaxico.org/Reforma/images/GlorietaPalma.jpg
Glorieta Caballito
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd297/gabrielbabb/32645417.jpg
Cibeles Roundabout
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7BUM6cwu_aY/Sgi42gB3TLI/AAAAAAAAAAU/FQ7ZTxf2lZw/s400/cibeles1.jpg
Roundabout Fuente de Petroleos in Periférico and Reforma Avenue
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/49150364.jpg
italystf November 5th, 2011, 01:02 AM This is the very first roudabout ever built: Place Charles de Gaulle, Paris (1907):
http://allcity7.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1691&d=1296850242
In Italy the first roundabout was built in Lecco only in 1989, 30 years afrer our first motorways, complex interchanges and rest areas!
Nowax November 5th, 2011, 01:33 AM Hulanka Roundabout in Bielsko-Biala ( Poland : )
http://lh6.ggpht.com/-82fvnaAoq4Y/TUMHhbwhTpI/AAAAAAAAIIA/h7_4SQG7l4A/RONDO%252520HULANKA.JPG
gabrielbabb November 5th, 2011, 06:49 AM I don't know if this is the oldest but this roundabout was started in 1906 to conmemorate the centennial of Mexico's Independence
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3829/angeldelaindependencia1.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3511/3989790605_a5a63f2605.jpg
Penn's Woods November 5th, 2011, 07:25 AM This is the very first roudabout ever built: Place Charles de Gaulle, Paris (1907):
http://allcity7.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1691&d=1296850242....
Uh, no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_Circle
And I'm not saying Dupont Circle's the oldest either. It's just the first one I looked up. Because the plan for Washington, which goes back to 1790ish, has circles on it. I'd guess Charles de Gaulle is older than 1907 too, for that matter. Or Columbus Circle in New York....
Although, upthread, you'll find an argument about whether these sort of big urban circles are roundabouts at all....
Penn's Woods November 5th, 2011, 08:57 AM 1856: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Circle
And it wasn't just a big circular open space in which traffic (then horse-drawn) could go every which way: there's mention in the article of a statue of Washington in the middle of it dedicated in 1860, and streetcar tracks going around the circle by 1862.
Verso November 5th, 2011, 06:23 PM Something (http://maps.google.si/maps?hl=sl&ll=46.062158,14.573635&spn=0.001448,0.002411&t=k&z=19&vpsrc=6) that resembles a raindrop roundabout in Ljubljana.
HMMS November 5th, 2011, 07:05 PM Now that's what I call a mini-roundabout. :lol:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5411911224_20b8910832_z.jpg
From one of those little Sicilian islands.
Stufs from Italy...............:nuts::lol:
italystf November 5th, 2011, 10:25 PM Stufs from Italy...............:nuts::lol:
Never seen anything similar in Italy: it's an exception, not the rule.
pt640 November 6th, 2011, 08:16 AM This is the very first roudabout ever built: Place Charles de Gaulle, Paris (1907):
http://allcity7.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1691&d=1296850242
In Italy the first roundabout was built in Lecco only in 1989, 30 years afrer our first motorways, complex interchanges and rest areas!
^^
maybe not the oldest, but exciting to watch
E8P14JrB8hQ
seem November 6th, 2011, 08:17 AM Banská Bystrica, SK
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1065/ebce.png
ChrisZwolle November 6th, 2011, 10:31 AM Rotunda, Florida:
http://i.imgur.com/GY8Rf.jpg
Tom 958 November 6th, 2011, 12:59 PM ^^ Not a roundabout. :)
This should be fun: I don't understand how traffic lights at roundabouts work. Can someone explain it to me?
ChrisZwolle November 6th, 2011, 01:24 PM This should be fun: I don't understand how traffic lights at roundabouts work. Can someone explain it to me?
They basically regulate traffic like on normal T-shaped intersections with traffic signals, but you can only turn right onto the roundabout. Traffic signals are often installed at busy multi-lane roundabouts. (those that aren't turbo roundabouts). There is a traffic signal-controlled roundabout in my city, I think it handles about 100,000 vehicles per day in total.
x-type November 6th, 2011, 01:34 PM E8P14JrB8hQ
Paris, India :D
how many accidents happen there per day?
in HR there was problem with one quite large roundabout in Zagreb, and somebody got an idea to make regulation as in Paris or Rome. so, to erase all the signalization. now it is really dangerous because they don't drive too slow there, as in Paris.
ChrisZwolle November 6th, 2011, 01:40 PM The Place Charles de Gaulle roundabout is more unique because there are actually 12 streets which enter the roundabout, instead of the usual 4. There is no way you can control that many streets with traffic signals, so this "chaos" is actually the best solution for traffic flow. There are no motorways in central Paris, but the traffic volumes on the Champs Elysées is still very high, I think it may be even up to 100.000 vehicles per day.
x-type November 6th, 2011, 02:00 PM you are right. on Plaça Espanya in Barcelona they have installed traffic lights and they just make jams, although it is easier to navigate in the sea of cars with traffic lights.
italystf November 6th, 2011, 02:16 PM Bitonto (BA) :)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8503/bitonto.jpg
bogdymol November 6th, 2011, 02:44 PM Bitonto (BA) :)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8503/bitonto.jpg
Got ya (http://g.co/maps/89rgw)! It's not a countinue road!
But why did they do this road as such a perfect circle around this town?
Penn's Woods November 6th, 2011, 02:49 PM The Place Charles de Gaulle roundabout is more unique because there are actually 12 streets which enter the roundabout, instead of the usual 4. There is no way you can control that many streets with traffic signals, so this "chaos" is actually the best solution for traffic flow. There are no motorways in central Paris, but the traffic volumes on the Champs Elysées is still very high, I think it may be even up to 100.000 vehicles per day.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever driven in it? (I haven't, obviously.) I hear it's quite an experience....
bogdymol November 6th, 2011, 03:06 PM Just out of curiosity, have you ever driven in it? (I haven't, obviously.) I hear it's quite an experience....
I haven't driven in it, but I've been a passenger there. You just have to be extremely careful at other cars, but the principle is quite simple... for few seconds the traffic flow comes from one direction and after that from the other direction.
Speaking of traffic-light controlled roundabouts, we have 3 in my town (1 (http://g.co/maps/vcnsx), 2 (http://g.co/maps/tdykc), 3 (http://g.co/maps/3hqux) - street view available at all 3). All 3 of them are also tram lines interchange. At the 3rd one the traffic lights are installed but they never worked because some streets in that area are u/c. They will work from the end of the year I guess. We also had a 4th (http://g.co/maps/68e6x) roundabout with traffic lights, but during the last years they were turned off because the traffic is much better without them.
Minato ku November 6th, 2011, 03:13 PM The place de l'Etoile (only tourists call it Charles de Gaulle :D) is not a roundabout but a traffic circle.
The rules are different:
-In roundabout, cars inside the roundabout have the priority.
-In traffic circle, there is the priority to the right.
Place de la L'Etoile seems to have no rule but if we clearly look the traffic, we see that cars coming from right have the priority.
TTtsmBYIShA
There is no roundabout inside Paris city limits, as there is no Stop sign.
If you don't see any traffic light, the priority to the right rule apply.
zsmg November 6th, 2011, 07:20 PM Have there been any attempts in the past to control the traffic flow at place de l'Etoile?
joshsam November 6th, 2011, 07:37 PM ^^What are they gonna do? Build a superstack over it? It's fine the way it is. It's the best way...
Minato ku November 6th, 2011, 08:58 PM Have there been any attempts in the past to control the traffic flow at place de l'Etoile?
The traffic flow is controled by traffic light in avenues that lead in the traffic circle.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/Vincentthomas/Album%204/AvenuedeWagr.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/Vincentthomas/Album%204/AvenueKleb.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/Vincentthomas/Album%204/AvMarce.jpg
There is also a tunnel going under place de l'Etoile (Avenue Champs Elysées to Avenue de la Grande Armée).
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d107/Vincentthomas/Album%204/AvenueChamp.jpg
gabrielbabb November 7th, 2011, 04:39 AM They are more simple to manage in Mexico people already know how to deal with them, besides the traffic lights are perfectly sinchronized if there is more traffic so that all the cars can pass
UdRiYp_YVSU
joshsam November 7th, 2011, 10:02 AM ^^I agree, but in the case of paris, It's 12 streets entering the traffic circle, not 4 like in the vid of Mexico City you posted. So that's gonna be a hell of system they need to install in Paris of they want to do that...
zsmg November 7th, 2011, 10:37 AM ^^What are they gonna do? Build a superstack over it? It's fine the way it is. It's the best way...I was going to suggest traffic lights, a tunnel and proper road markings. Two of them are already there. :p
rohjoe November 7th, 2011, 08:52 PM ^^Why's it called "Railway Roundabout"? I see no sign of a railway. (Are there any on Tasmania?)
The railway once terminated at a station where the roundabout now stands but now terminates at the wharf area. Brooker Ave was constructed in the 1950s.
There certainly are railways here in Tasmania but they are freight only between the larger cities and ports (Burnie-Launceston-Bell Bay-Hobart). There has not been a passenger service since 1975.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0iUgjCAPO9k/Trg0vgRWdNI/AAAAAAAAAXY/FQqDVz-o67E/s800/Old%252520Map.jpg
©1993 - 2011 The Probert Encyclopaedia
Present day map:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ouCygNJDpY8/TrjIsaSp9hI/AAAAAAAAAXg/ZjH7JJR40d8/s800/Tasmap.jpg
©Tasmanian Government 1998
friedrichstrasse November 7th, 2011, 09:43 PM In Italy the first roundabout was built in Lecco only in 1989, 30 years afrer our first motorways, complex interchanges and rest areas!
:?
In Milan the first roundabouts were projected in 1912 city plan (example: piazzale Piola)
Minato ku November 7th, 2011, 09:55 PM ^^ It was a roundabout or a traffic circle ?
The first roundabout in France opened in 1984, now France with over 30,000 is the country with the most.
friedrichstrasse November 7th, 2011, 10:01 PM Yes, of course a traffic circle, as the Place de l'Etoile posted before...
Anyway, modern roundabouts exist in my homecity (Lodi, Lombardy) since the first 1970s, so many years before 1989...
italystf November 7th, 2011, 11:15 PM There is no roundabout inside Paris city limits, as there is no Stop sign.
If you don't see any traffic light, the priority to the right rule apply.
Really? If a local dead end street meet an important boulevard must traffic on boulevard stop to give priority?
In Italy the priority to the right rule is virtually non-existent. Every intersections, except maybe some between 2 dirt roads in the countryside, has stop or yield signs.
Yes, of course a traffic circle, as the Place de l'Etoile posted before...
Anyway, modern roundabouts exist in my homecity (Lodi, Lombardy) since the first 1970s, so many years before 1989...
Are you sure they weren't traffic circles that were later reconverted in roundabouts?
friedrichstrasse November 7th, 2011, 11:21 PM Yes! Now I understand what you mean: are "roundabouts" only the ones with free circle priority?
So it could be, I remember of such roundabouts since about 1993...
BTW, in Milan you can still find some old roundabouts with priority on the right, example piazza Aspari (http://maps.google.it/maps?q=Milano&hl=it&ll=45.471718,9.221518&spn=0.000942,0.002642&sll=41.442726,12.392578&sspn=16.486837,43.286133&vpsrc=6&hnear=Milano,+Lombardia&t=k&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.471761,9.221555&panoid=7X5nt9X3VcfnWBOD4vqPvg&cbp=12,359.19,,0,9.5)!
Minato ku November 8th, 2011, 12:42 AM Really? If a local dead end street meet an important boulevard must traffic on boulevard stop to give priority?
Even the Peripherique beltway has the priority to the right, it means that the cars coming inside this freeway have the priority over the cars already running on it.
xrtn2 November 18th, 2011, 03:47 PM The roundbouts in brazil are very wrong, see
http://i.imgur.com/tofmv.jpg
poshbakerloo November 18th, 2011, 04:35 PM In England we have had them for a long time. I'm not sure when the first one was but I know several where built in the 1920s-30s particularly around the London suburbs...Our motorway network has too many lol
The is the awful junction between M60 & M62, one of the busiest interchanges in the country but due to it being a roundabout its one of the worst as all the traffic that is changing direction has to share the name roads...
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x48/poshbakerloo/M60-M62-M66-1.jpg
Sheffield's 'Hole in the road' aka Castle Square it was as a good idea in the 1960s but has since been filled in and all the roads around it downgraded...
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x48/poshbakerloo/Holeintheroad6-1.jpg
Birmingham's Inner Ring Road, this side of it has now been removed...
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x48/poshbakerloo/Birmingham1999-2.jpg
Satyricon84 November 25th, 2011, 07:39 PM Taken by me in Dillenburg (Germany)
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/374840_2660321436289_1503535189_2813239_999709435_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/378636_2660328116456_1503535189_2813245_939203851_n.jpg
DanielFigFoz November 25th, 2011, 07:51 PM In the UK the term 'traffic circle' isn't used
Mark19 November 25th, 2011, 09:13 PM i like roundabouts, they are so much better than traffic lights because, in traffic light you have to stop at least 2 min, in roundabout the traffic is fluid
the only problem y when the street is of 3 lanes and the roundabouts is of 2 lanes, its so dangerous
and they are so much cheaper than built "bridges"
examples here of my country
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9381833.jpg
El Salvador
San Salvador´s beltway
tradephoric February 3rd, 2012, 07:20 PM There are actually quite a few modern roundabouts that have been constructed in America since 1990. All 50 stats have at least 1 modern roundabout constructed. According to RoundaboutsUSA website there are over 2,600 modern roundabouts operating in the USA, not including the many small neighborhood traffic calming circles or the large 'monster-size' rotaries encountered in the northeastern states.
Here's a short video showing the evolution of modern roundabouts in America:
nGeHi_ipD3E
Link to download the google KMZ file shown in this video:
http://www.mediafire.com/?oooty22otn862r7
Here's an excel file of the roundabout database used to create the KMZ file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?e3qplbpd51yfdo7
Fargo Wolf February 4th, 2012, 11:16 PM The roundbouts in brazil are very wrong, see
http://i.imgur.com/tofmv.jpg
That's a rotary, which has different rules than a roundabout/traffic circle. In a rotary, you give way to traffic ENTERING the circle. In a roundabout/traffic circle, you give way to traffic already in it.
DanielFigFoz February 5th, 2012, 12:01 AM That's a rotary, which has different rules than a roundabout/traffic circle. In a rotary, you give way to traffic ENTERING the circle. In a roundabout/traffic circle, you give way to traffic already in it.
In British English there's no difference, everything is a roundabout it its round and you drive in a circle
Edit: I realised that I've said this twice in one page :lol:
tradephoric February 5th, 2012, 07:07 PM Here's an example of how heavy pedestrian traffic can create gridlock inside of the roundabout. This is a partial 3-lane roundabout constructed next to a high school in Kitchener, Ontario Canada.
8rMAToz_YgY
For probably 30 minutes out of the day (15 minutes during school let in, and 15 minutes during school let out) the roundabout loses its effectiveness. Here's another video about this particular roundabout dealing with pedestrian safety:
u4BH4XgfJdc
agliati2005 February 5th, 2012, 07:29 PM Roundabouts are not an efficient way to control traffic in big cities. They should be eliminated.
CF221 February 5th, 2012, 07:40 PM ^^ That's a very general comment, my friend... There's actually some roundabouts on or near the City of Miami (Downtown) and they are very good at distributing traffic... another example is the roundobout at the gate to Coral Gables, which works wonders...
Tu comentario es demasiado general... pues hay lugares urbanos en los que si funcionan!
joshsam February 5th, 2012, 07:56 PM Here's an example of how heavy pedestrian traffic can create gridlock inside of the roundabout. This is a partial 3-lane roundabout constructed next to a high school in Kitchener, Ontario Canada.
It's next to a school, they should have thought about that and build a tunnel for bikes and pedestrians. I've never seen such a big roundabout without pedestrian and biketunnels overhere especially not near a school...
Problem solved.
DanielFigFoz February 5th, 2012, 08:29 PM It's next to a school, they should have thought about that and build a tunnel for bikes and pedestrians. I've never seen such a big roundabout without pedestrian and biketunnels overhere especially not near a school...
Problem solved.
Really?!
joshsam February 5th, 2012, 08:42 PM ^^A small one yes when it's a 1+1 road, not a 3 lane roundabout with heavy traffic connecting 2+2 roads no. Never seen that overhere, they always have tunnels.
Few examples in my area: (and all these roads are smaller than the one in the vid above and are not near a school)
http://g.co/maps/z7488
http://g.co/maps/frkgk
http://g.co/maps/6fhsv
Building a new roundabout with pedestrian tunnel:
http://g.co/maps/txgka
RKC February 7th, 2012, 12:32 PM Roundabouts are not an efficient way to control traffic in big cities. They should be eliminated.
that's just simply not true
RKC February 7th, 2012, 12:37 PM Here's an example of how heavy pedestrian traffic can create gridlock inside of the roundabout. This is a partial 3-lane roundabout constructed next to a high school in Kitchener, Ontario Canada.
8rMAToz_YgY
For probably 30 minutes out of the day (15 minutes during school let in, and 15 minutes during school let out) the roundabout loses its effectiveness.
The problem is pedestrians just keep coming, they could have a person (like a lollipop lady) allowing bigger groups to cross at once so they won' hold up traffic forever - I can easily imagine highschool kids just wondering about talking etc. holding up half the town. I've experienced it before.
joshsam February 7th, 2012, 03:33 PM or be smart and build a pedestrian tunnel -.-
DanielFigFoz February 11th, 2012, 03:59 PM cool phenomena on river Kupa in Karlovac :)
http://slobodnadalmacija.hr/Portals/0/images/2012-02-10/PSD/Ledenikrugkarlovac/ledeni_krug4-100212_1_thumb.jpg
Is that a water roundabout? :D
Oh yeaah :banana:
Paddington February 13th, 2012, 12:40 PM There are actually quite a few modern roundabouts that have been constructed in America since 1990. All 50 stats have at least 1 modern roundabout constructed. According to RoundaboutsUSA website there are over 2,600 modern roundabouts operating in the USA, not including the many small neighborhood traffic calming circles or the large 'monster-size' rotaries encountered in the northeastern states.
Here's a short video showing the evolution of modern roundabouts in America:
nGeHi_ipD3E
Link to download the google KMZ file shown in this video:
http://www.mediafire.com/?oooty22otn862r7
Here's an excel file of the roundabout database used to create the KMZ file:
http://www.mediafire.com/?e3qplbpd51yfdo7
:badnews:
poshbakerloo February 13th, 2012, 07:27 PM or be smart and build a pedestrian tunnel -.-
Tunnels are awful! Here in Sheffield, UK the big roundabouts on the Ring Road have tunnels under them and at night its awful! At least have bridges above the roads which are open. A lot of the city centre roundabouts just have surface crossings, but set a bit further down the road away from the roundabout to stop traffic get backed up when ever someone crosses...
joshsam February 14th, 2012, 02:11 PM ^^Well, they need to be wide enough andhave decent lighting to prevent people feeling unsave. They are everywhere in Belgium to yet I rarely feel unsave in them. (see my post on previous page)
poshbakerloo February 14th, 2012, 02:32 PM ^^Well, they need to be wide enough andhave decent lighting to prevent people feeling unsave. They are everywhere in Belgium to yet I rarely feel unsave in them. (see my post on previous page)
I agree that they do need to be well lit, but in reality...they never are lol
joshsam February 14th, 2012, 02:45 PM ^^The ones I know are. Bright tl lamps on both sides always...
poshbakerloo February 14th, 2012, 09:27 PM ^^The ones I know are. Bright tl lamps on both sides always...
Most of the ones built in the 60s-70s when the idea of it came about are awful. I'm sure better things could be done, but any tunnel in an urban area just for people is a bad idea. If you really wanna keep people off a road, I say use bridges...
eskandarany February 15th, 2012, 01:49 AM Britain's pedestrian tunnels are almost always dark and dangerous.
Chilio February 15th, 2012, 09:18 AM I surely will prefer this:
http://www.segabg.com/pic/5246/458209-l.jpg
instead of this:
http://static.bnews.bg/8d519b5785cd.jpg
or this:
http://www.noviiskar.bg/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Podlez-v-Sofia.jpg
or even this:
http://content.marica.bg/news/2012/01/0000024119_w480.JPG
All examples above are from Bulgaria, last one is in Plovdiv, others are in Sofia. Not all pedestrian tunnels and underpasses look so bad, but still that is what happens to most of them in the time in the suburbs etc.
But not to be so offtopic, I there are only same-level pedestrian crossings on bulgarian roundabouts, no tunnels, no bridges. But still, they're also not build at places, where there so much pedestrian traffic.
Examples from Sofia:
Sofia's Ring Road's junction with road to Dragalevtsi - here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.641702,23.312359&z=16&t=h&hl=bg)
Roundabout at 4th km of Tsarigradsko Shaussee boulevard - here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.66905,23.368005&z=16&t=h&hl=bg)
Roundabout at Stochna Gara square (street-light regulated) - here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.705121,23.333156&z=17&t=h&hl=bg)
Roundabout at Nadezhda Overpass (no pedestrian crossings at all) - here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.720681,23.310761&z=16&t=h&hl=bg)
Small roundabout on the older road to Sofia Airport (no pedestrian walkways are drawn, although quite often there are pedestrians) - here (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.67732,23.398693&z=17&t=h&hl=bg)
etc...
RKC February 15th, 2012, 10:06 AM ^^The ones I know are. Bright tl lamps on both sides always...
We have a lot of pedestrian underpasses, subways etc. nowdays where possible they are making new zebra crossings, so people don't have to go underground all the time. In reality no one wants to go up and down lots of stairs to be in a dark, dirty underpass, where you can also get into trouble. It is an obsolate concept used when car traffic had priority in terms of town planning, traffic planning (that's why lots of tramlines and such were demolished all over Europr to make way for roads, etc.).
So in theory they might be the logical solution, in practice no one like's them who actually has to use them...
this is a typical inner city underpass/subway, with metro connection (Blaha Lujza Square). For a long time you had to come down here even if you didn't need the metro, only wanted to cross the street. There are now new zebra crossings overground, which were immediately used by large crowds of people, indicating that lot of the pedestrian traffic didn't need to go down to the subway at all (cars had to stop at the intersection anyway, so the new zebras don't even hold up traffic).
http://criticalmass.hu/files/alaulj.jpg
http://criticalmass.hu/files/alaulj.jpg
new zebras:
http://m.blog.hu/ep/epitos/image/zebra/zebra01.jpg
http://m.blog.hu/ep/epitos/image/zebra/zebra01.jpg
RKC February 15th, 2012, 10:30 AM as you go out of town things get less pretty, lol.
Békásmegyer
http://img1.indafoto.hu/8/7/95807_4267d5d3159b66d6c1ed049cce7da4c7/9168011_e85a967aa8d513e4a4f2671723aee367_m.jpg
http://img1.indafoto.hu/8/7/95807_4267d5d3159b66d6c1ed049cce7da4c7/9168011_e85a967aa8d513e4a4f2671723aee367_m.jpg
http://www.metropol.hu/images/2009/05/1241793160_aluljaro1.jpg
http://www.metropol.hu/images/2009/05/1241793160_aluljaro1.jpg
Örs Vezér Square
http://kep.index.hu/1/0/165/1654/16540/1654061_6a22888eb273fca16c6960346ffa5a21_wm.jpg
http://kep.index.hu/1/0/165/1654/16540/1654061_6a22888eb273fca16c6960346ffa5a21_wm.jpg
Astoria I think:
http://terfigyelokamerarendszerek.hu/kamerarendszer/terfigyelo/aluljaro2-kamerarendszer.jpg
http://terfigyelokamerarendszerek.hu/kamerarendszer/terfigyelo/aluljaro2-kamerarendszer.jpg
Nyugati Station
http://m.blog.hu/vi/vilagvaros/image/DSC03346-1.JPG
http://m.blog.hu/vi/vilagvaros/image/DSC03346-1.JPG
http://fmh.hu/image.aspx?id=8f44a51c-552c-49a3-8264-322da26e3035&view=d687bb3a-509a-49ca-b43e-cbc038e76e5b
http://fmh.hu/image.aspx?id=8f44a51c-552c-49a3-8264-322da26e3035&view=d687bb3a-509a-49ca-b43e-cbc038e76e5b
Erzsébet Királyné útja
http://www.hangfogo.hu/kepek/Budapest_vegyes/ErKirAlGit.JPG
http://www.hangfogo.hu/kepek/Budapest_vegyes/ErKirAlGit.JPG
Petőfi híd
http://img9.indafoto.hu/3/9/28459_afb10ddfce75e4a231f083365f04e08f/6311561_f4f9f9c4fcad1941a1336a35d376b224_m.jpg
http://img9.indafoto.hu/3/9/28459_afb10ddfce75e4a231f083365f04e08f/6311561_f4f9f9c4fcad1941a1336a35d376b224_m.jpg
Hungária körút
http://ideiglenes.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/zsofia-kesz-van.jpg
http://ideiglenes.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/zsofia-kesz-van.jpg
ChrisZwolle February 15th, 2012, 10:35 AM Tunnels tend to be unsafe, although a lot can be mitigated by a decent design. Many pedestrian tunnels fall into neglect, and lack of police enforcement also doesn't help. In the Netherlands we have gazillions of bicycle tunnels, and while they pose some problems here and there, it works great because the newer ones are very well designed. For instance a tunnel should preferrably not have curves, well-lit and wide, so you can always look through the entire thing before you enter it. We also have motorcycle cops who frequently patrol through these tunnels on their way.
italystf February 15th, 2012, 01:07 PM Pedestrian tunnel are fine during daytime when roads are very busy and there are many people crossing them (so less chances to find yourself alone with dangerous people). During night should be closed to avoid crime risks and because lower traffic make easier crossing the road. However, also during daytime, tunnels should be monitored by cameras and police agents.
joshsam February 15th, 2012, 04:29 PM The longest I've walked in the one underneath the Schelde river in Antwerp. It's kinda busy at times and is 572 meters long.
Anyway all new roundabouts on busy roads in Belgium have pedestrain and bike tunnels. They look good, are wide and never made me feel unsave and look like this:
new: (2010)
http://www.appallremove.be/files/imagecache/reference/files/tn_Mol%20fietstunnels%20(14).JPG
old: 1995 (but got a cleanup)
http://www.mobielvlaanderen.be/figs/convenants/MOB6005F02_fietstunnel.jpg
Although I agree they are neglected many times, it's still better than the video posted where pedestrians keep up traffic.
Triple C February 19th, 2012, 05:44 AM A wide roundabout in Ankara with ~200m diameter: http://harita.yandex.com.tr/-/CJew70NB
Chilio February 19th, 2012, 09:58 PM Not radius but diameter... A radius is 1/2 of the diameter.
ChrisZwolle February 24th, 2012, 08:19 PM What's the average cost of a standard roundabout in your area?
This T-intersection will be replaced by a roundabout in the coming months. As you can see no additional right-of-way is necessary (no expropriation). The cost of this one-lane roundabout is € 406.000
http://i.imgur.com/qTb9F.jpg
joshsam February 25th, 2012, 02:43 PM ^^Where is that? looks like BE
Glodenox February 26th, 2012, 06:26 PM Seems to be the Netherlands: http://maps.google.nl/maps?ll=52.278566,6.433544&z=18
I'm afraid I don't have any recent figures about roundabout costs. There's been plans for a roundabout nearby for about 5 years, but one shop seems to be very difficult to expropriate. In the meanwhile, I keep on risking my life each time I drive there on my bicycle, as I need to merge into car traffic to cross the intersection :(
Greetings,
Glodenox
mgk920 February 27th, 2012, 06:03 AM When the local authorities decided to replace a major bridge here in Appleton, WI, USA a few years ago, they had a choice for the irregular intersection at its east end - an upgraded conventional intersection or a two-lane roundabout. The engineering reports on that showed that the roundabout would require the taking ('expropriation') of six fewer houses and cost about a half-million dollars *less* than the intersection.
The wisdom of the decision to go with the roundabout was fully apparent within MINUTES of its opening - traffic was flowing freely and there were none of the backups that the old bridge and that intersection were well known for.
Location:
http://binged.it/yKd3eM
:dance:
Mike
Chilio February 27th, 2012, 08:34 AM Similar price for this roundabout in Varna, although it was previously announced it will cost 4 times cheaper (and it should be - labor cost and materials are quite cheaper in BG). It finally costs about 800 leva which is about 400 euro. this is described as a scandalous scheme for diversion of funds and draining the city budget.
http://media.snimka.bg/9851/025957866-big.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/9851/025957859-big.jpg?r=0
http://media.snimka.bg/9851/025957864-big.jpg?r=0
Road_UK February 27th, 2012, 09:50 AM Does anybody agree that roundabouts in Italy are among the most dangerous in Europe? (for example the one at the end of the A4 coming from Milan going into Turin) The UK I consider the safest, with clear lane markings, apart from the one at South Mimms (A1(M) , M25).
Austria would be ok, if Austrians knew how to use them. But overhere there is no such thing as 3/4 turn (3rd exit) indicating. I'm the only one that does that. Same applies to Germany.
joshsam February 27th, 2012, 10:08 AM I know plenty of big roundabouts in Belgium without any lane marking on them. They don't feel dangerous I guess.
Road_UK February 27th, 2012, 10:20 AM ^^^
Are you sitting comfortably?
Ok, here it goes:
Belgium has pretty good roundabouts, and people use them well.
There, I said it.
joshsam February 27th, 2012, 10:53 AM :D haha ;)
That's being honest I guess.
I have something to say myself: I think some are to small designed on secondary roads for big trucks, while those roads see plenty of big trucks in Belgium.
DanielFigFoz February 27th, 2012, 06:40 PM Does anybody agree that roundabouts in Italy are among the most dangerous in Europe? (for example the one at the end of the A4 coming from Milan going into Turin) The UK I consider the safest, with clear lane markings, apart from the one at South Mimms (A1(M) , M25).
Austria would be ok, if Austrians knew how to use them. But overhere there is no such thing as 3/4 turn (3rd exit) indicating. I'm the only one that does that. Same applies to Germany.
Lack of indicating on roundabouts is the thing that annoyed me the most about drivers, especially on mini-roundabouts
Chilio February 27th, 2012, 09:18 PM It's the biggest problem in Bulgarian roundabouts - drivers who don't know how to use them and almost nobody indicating... And also no matter at what exit they plan to go, they cross all lanes inside the roundabout on the shortest way, not respecting the markings.
It decreases the efficiency much.
geor February 27th, 2012, 09:54 PM It's the biggest problem in Bulgarian roundabouts - drivers who don't know how to use them and almost nobody indicating... And also no matter at what exit they plan to go, they cross all lanes inside the roundabout on the shortest way, not respecting the markings.
It decreases the efficiency much.
What does the police do about that way of driving?? Only watching? In Croatia the police has to control bigining of operating all new rotors
RKC February 28th, 2012, 10:01 AM What does the police do about that way of driving?? Only watching? In Croatia the police has to control bigining of operating all new rotors
you can't have police on every corner, as the saying goes...
anyway, I think in any country we have problems with people that are just not capable of understanding certain theories about driving and it's not just roundabouts.
For example in Hungary we have no problem with normal roundabouts (and we didn't have any of them twenty years ago, so that's no excuse for Americans :D ), but we do have a problem with multi lane roundabouts. People are not sure how they work so most of them just keep to the outside lane, reducing the capacity and preventing others from useing it properly. At least here ignorance makes people go slow and safe and not fast and reckless through lanes as it was described in Bulgaria
Chilio February 28th, 2012, 10:30 AM I wouldn't say they go fast and reckless, but they do not respect lanes - which means almost the same as in Hungary - they may be in the outside lane although they will leave on the 3rd exit, or they may be in the inside lane and leave at the nearest exit... and without indicating. So it makes it work like an one-lane roundabout, because no mater in which lane there is a car, all incoming cars stop and wait, because they don't know where it is going and if they'll cross directions with it...
RKC February 28th, 2012, 02:17 PM i see. yes that's exactly the problem with it.
Jeroen669 February 28th, 2012, 02:27 PM Belgium has pretty good roundabouts, and people use them well
Belgians often lack the use of indicators..
Road_UK February 28th, 2012, 03:31 PM Belgians often lack the use of indicators.. No, Belgians have indicators as well. They may not always use them, but I've definitly seen indicators on Belgian cars.
geor February 28th, 2012, 07:00 PM you can't have police on every corner,
Not at every corner, but very often at new infrastuctures objects like junctions.
The 2nd question is about driving schools. Do they teach about driving at; one, two, three lane rotors?
The 3rd question is about vertical and horizontal signalization. Do they harmonize them and how does it look like? How does the left arrow look like?
snowdog February 28th, 2012, 07:24 PM Proper grade sperated junctions > Normal 4 way junctions ( with the main road having right of way) > Roundabout > Traffic lights > Roundabout with traffic lights ( = pure evil imho, do just traffic lights or a roundabout but not bloody both!).
Purely going on how fast you can traverse em. Safety has far too much influence these days, they should instead focus on what can handle the most traffic and as quick as possible.
Things like this:
http://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.967631,4.455884&spn=0.002826,0.008256&t=k&z=18
Are designed by an imbecile imho, in what way is that thing better than a normal wide junction with traffic lights like this :http://maps.google.nl/?ll=51.95108,4.564294&spn=0.002827,0.008256&t=k&z=18 ?
Morons.
Chilio February 28th, 2012, 07:50 PM Red car on picture is almost surely going out of the roundabout on next exit - http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/51411783.jpg
This is typical case of a roundabout with three lanes, which almost all the time functions like an one-lane roundabout. At least 30-50% of drivers make it so.
geor February 28th, 2012, 08:48 PM Red car on picture is almost surely going out of the roundabout on next exit -
This is typical case of a roundabout with three lanes, which almost all the time functions like an one-lane roundabout. At least 30-50% of drivers make it so.
According to the rotors layout it is clear that it doesn’t have the straight and left arrows on the pavement. Suppose, it is the same with vertical signalisation. What position to take when approaching if you want to go straight on or to the left? This rotor’s design is very dangerous for new drivers and drivers who never drove on this type of junctions. There are a lot of things that could be improved on the showed one.
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1662/chilit.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/chilit.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Vaud February 28th, 2012, 10:08 PM Here's an example of how heavy pedestrian traffic can create gridlock inside of the roundabout. This is a partial 3-lane roundabout constructed next to a high school in Kitchener, Ontario Canada.
For probably 30 minutes out of the day (15 minutes during school let in, and 15 minutes during school let out) the roundabout loses its effectiveness. Here's another video about this particular roundabout dealing with pedestrian safety:
The solution is as easy as placing an on-demand traffic light that turns green for pedestrians once the button is pushed and after waiting several seconds so that more pedestrians pass together.
RKC February 29th, 2012, 11:43 AM No, Belgians have indicators as well. They may not always use them, but I've definitly seen indicators on Belgian cars.
^^:lol::lol::lol:
:D
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly0w2lAmdu1qbplir.png
NCT March 1st, 2012, 09:05 PM Red car on picture is almost surely going out of the roundabout on next exit - http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/51411783.jpg
This is typical case of a roundabout with three lanes, which almost all the time functions like an one-lane roundabout. At least 30-50% of drivers make it so.
This is just lazy roundabout design though. It's more than 2-lanes wide, so the lanes should be spiralling rather than concentric.
poshbakerloo March 2nd, 2012, 09:28 PM Red car on picture is almost surely going out of the roundabout on next exit - http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/51411783.jpg
This is typical case of a roundabout with three lanes, which almost all the time functions like an one-lane roundabout. At least 30-50% of drivers make it so.
Its a bit of a silly design as the roundabout has 3 lanes, but there are only 2 turning lanes from each junction to get onto it...
Sheffield (UK) has several good examples of 3 lane roundabouts...
The junctions have atleast 3 turning lanes, but here you can see that one of the roads has 4 lanes, the ones closest to the left is for left turns only with the other 3 directed for the roundabout only...
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x48/poshbakerloo/SheffieldRingRoad.jpg
tradephoric March 3rd, 2012, 02:45 AM That's a nice 3-lane roundabout in the UK! One thing i don't like about it is that the 4th left turn only lane seems to almost get squeezed out. Wonder if there are a lot of sideswipe accidents especially if there is a lot of large truck traffic. Do you think the left turn only lane adds a lot of capacity to the roundabout?
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/tradephoric/Transportation%20Pictures/Random/SqueezedOut.jpg?t=1330738047
geor March 3rd, 2012, 09:41 PM That's a nice 3-lane roundabout in the UK! One thing i don't like about it is that the 4th left turn only lane seems to almost get squeezed out. Wonder if there are a lot of sideswipe accidents especially if there is a lot of large truck traffic. Do you think the left turn only lane adds a lot of capacity to the roundabout?
The design of arrows on approaching lanes of roundabout is very dangerous and ambiguous. As i said before arrows have to be like this:
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/96/ukrotor.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/ukrotor.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
AtD March 3rd, 2012, 11:41 PM ^ In Australia, and presumably the UK, those arrow designs would do more harm than good. What's already there makes far more sense.
tradephoric March 4th, 2012, 04:45 AM Here's a nifty partial 3-lane roundabout in Metro Detroit:
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/tradephoric/Transportation%20Pictures/Roundabouts/FarmingtonHillsRoundabout.jpg
I agree with Geor that a standard turn arrow is too ambiguous at a roundabout. Here's a closeup of the lane arrows used at this roundabout:
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/tradephoric/Transportation%20Pictures/Roundabouts/LaneMarkings.jpg
i15 March 4th, 2012, 11:06 AM ^^ great roundabout :cheers: I hate those old multiple-lane roundabouts, where nobody uses inner lanes
geor March 4th, 2012, 12:32 PM ^ In Australia, and presumably the UK, those arrow designs would do more harm than good. What's already there makes far more sense.
In continental EU the things are different than in keep to the left countries. In Croatia there are also some old roundabouts with no circle in the middle of the arrows, but we are aware of the negative aspect of that and hope to change them in near future.
geor March 4th, 2012, 12:37 PM Here's a nifty partial 3-lane roundabout in Metro Detroit:
I agree with Geor that a standard turn arrow is too ambiguous at a roundabout. Here's a closeup of the lane arrows used at this roundabout:
These are very nice pictures. That is what i wanted to draw. Thank you very much.
poshbakerloo March 4th, 2012, 01:53 PM That's a nice 3-lane roundabout in the UK! One thing i don't like about it is that the 4th left turn only lane seems to almost get squeezed out. Wonder if there are a lot of sideswipe accidents especially if there is a lot of large truck traffic. Do you think the left turn only lane adds a lot of capacity to the roundabout?
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/tradephoric/Transportation%20Pictures/Random/SqueezedOut.jpg?t=1330738047
I've not really heard of any accidents related to that. I think the 4th lane just adds capacity for traffic that is waiting mostly. That junction does suffer from large ques. But the only thing that would solve that is a free flowing junction. Something that would never happen lol. Those roundabouts are large because the original design was for the ring road to continue under them in an underpass, the A61(M)
AtD March 5th, 2012, 12:24 PM In continental EU the things are different than in keep to the left countries. In Croatia there are also some old roundabouts with no circle in the middle of the arrows, but we are aware of the negative aspect of that and hope to change them in near future.
I think it's because in the left countries we say "continue straight the roundabout" whereas an American GPS would say "take the second exit at the roundabout." I really get confused by the navigation instructions when the second exit is not straight.
NCT March 5th, 2012, 12:38 PM I think arrows are fine at standard 4-way roundabouts. Left, straight and right correspond to first, second and third exits respectively from the current location. Curly arrows add nothing and just look messy. Where the roundabout is more complex lane indications are provided by destinations, like V'RIA and K'DGE at Hyde Park Corner, nice and simple.
poshbakerloo: I don't think the left-most lane on your diagram is that bad - most people would go straight across the junction into the roundabout leaving plenty of room for left-turning traffic I'd imagine.
sirfreelancealot March 5th, 2012, 05:46 PM I've not really heard of any accidents related to that. I think the 4th lane just adds capacity for traffic that is waiting mostly. That junction does suffer from large ques. But the only thing that would solve that is a free flowing junction. Something that would never happen lol. Those roundabouts are large because the original design was for the ring road to continue under them in an underpass, the A61(M)
Lane marking quality is severely lacking in the UK though. Those four approach lanes will be very narrow, barely the width of a car, let alone a truck and its been made worse by providing hatching on the median splitter. The UK has an obsession with hatching - maybe there's a huge volcano spewing naturally occuring white thermoplastic that has to be got rid of somehow - hence the boys from the Stevie Wonder school of white lining are put to work straight away.
I'd much prefer the Detroit style markings - neat and simple. Why does the UK way of doing things have to look like the effort of a 5-year old?
tradephoric March 5th, 2012, 07:33 PM A study was performed back in 2007 entitled "Traffic Control Devices Pooled Fund Study: Lane Restriction Signing and Marking for Double-Lane Roundabouts" which compared fishhook arrows to traditional arrows.
Their conclusion was:
"The results of the present study showed no evidence of the Traditional Arrows inducing wrong way rotation, or of the Fishhook Arrows reducing wrong way rotation. Neither scheme produced any wrong way rotation responses in 324 trials each."
Of course the study also states:
"During training, approximately 450 single-lane roundabouts were driven by the 90 research participants (about 5 roundabouts per participant). These training roundabouts were presented before the main experiment in order to accustom the research participants to navigating through roundabouts in a driving simulator...During training for the simulation, one research participant did initially attempt to drive the circulatory roadway in the wrong direction. This participant quickly recognized the mistake, backed up slightly, and proceeded around the circulatory roadway in the correct direction."
A study of 90 participants who were allowed to practice correctly navigating a roundabouts before the test begin doesn't seem like a significant study.
geor March 5th, 2012, 08:41 PM I think it's because in the left countries we say "continue straight the roundabout" whereas an American GPS would say "take the second exit at the roundabout." I really get confused by the navigation instructions when the second exit is not straight.
IMO it is most important how to get there. As I said, this English example create very dangerous situation for EU Continental drivers as this type of arrows can lead them to wrong direction. On the other hand, the USA arrows have no ambiguous meaning.
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4862/comparisonb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/comparisonb.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]For better understanding it is necessary to have additional similar vertical signs too
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/8436/rotormh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/rotormh.jpg/)
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Aokromes March 5th, 2012, 11:30 PM I am from continental Europe and i don't go to try to do your example.
poshbakerloo March 6th, 2012, 06:15 AM IMO it is most important how to get there. As I said, this English example create very dangerous situation for EU Continental drivers as this type of arrows can lead them to wrong direction. On the other hand, the USA arrows have no ambiguous meaning.
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4862/comparisonb.jpg
I dnt see anyone trying to turn right on a UK roundabout unless they have a problem...
admirer of sir ALEX March 6th, 2012, 08:46 AM I am from continental Europe and i don't go to try to do your example.
You are a special case. This doesn’t apply to you.
Glodenox March 6th, 2012, 12:59 PM When you add lining for the cars coming from outside the roundabout, it visually looks like they have right of way, which they don't (talking about those black lines added on the image). Also, the angle of making that turn to the right is way too sharp for it to be a logical option to a driver. I personally prefer not having any arrows on the "straight" and "right" directions on those lanes, but an overhead sign telling people to use that lane for a certain destination. This is of course only useful for big and complex roundabouts, not the regular ones with 2 lanes.
tradephoric March 6th, 2012, 05:21 PM Here's a short video of a confused motorist traversing a roundabout in the wrong direction.
lomxovlTfUc
joshsam March 7th, 2012, 11:13 AM lol, how do you even do that not on purpose?
shpirtkosova March 8th, 2012, 04:44 AM Maybe its a British pensioner.... or woman.
AtD March 8th, 2012, 09:29 AM For better understanding it is necessary to have additional similar vertical signs too
I think given the number of roundabouts, the size of them and the volumes of traffic many of them carry, that's a bit of overkill.
Really you just need some of these:
http://www.hobbiesplus.com.au/signspotters/P6030002_small.JPG
And some of these:
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQW5jYj3XXUa1MZEe1YdSkNlJzsrHN84tnMpSGJsrjjpj6QWSC4Aw
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTHNri8q6doeGiPNetqUS1Lgk7G8zVQNEnw9gQEip50cqiXAmCT
...and plenty of <<<< signs.
There's plenty of two lane roundabouts in Australia with no advance warning at all - you may not realise its a roundabout until you actually get to the intersection. These definitely need better warning. There's one near where I used to live where the only advance warning that it was a roundabout (and not just a general hazard) was a single direction sign: http://g.co/maps/qa7r8 and then a completely wrong right turn sign! http://g.co/maps/tazpr
joshsam March 17th, 2012, 03:27 PM Roundabout near where I live:
http://www.kumpen.be/new/images/dbimages/pics/thumb_kruispuntstayen.jpg
http://www.kumpen.be/new/images/dbimages/pics/thumb_kruispuntstayen.jpg
Nexis March 19th, 2012, 01:12 PM Washington State has gone mad with rounabouts...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7044/6944837773_6941c74243_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6944837773/)
I-5, D Street roundabouts in Blaine (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6944837773/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6944866039_c93ff76314_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6944866039/)
SR 539, River Road roundabout near Lynden (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6944866039/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6798750728_d688061781_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6798750728/)
SR 539, Ten Mile Road roundabout near Bellingham (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6798750728/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7189/6944850599_c45dce93f7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6944850599/)
I-5, Portal Way roundabout in Ferndale (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6944850599/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7206/6798722716_4d71e5af2b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6798722716/)
SR 542, SR 9 roundabout in Deming (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6798722716/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7177/6944835943_8702d74d67_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6944835943/)
SR 539, SR 544 Roundabout near Lynden (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/6944835943/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5216/5395845135_db25993db3_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/5395845135/)
SR 548 Roundabout - Aerial (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/5395845135/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3508/3950456087_2782e8e68d_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/3950456087/)
10 of 11: Aerial view of truck driving through roundabout (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/3950456087/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2524/3951230720_9c3a62f06c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/3951230720/)
Aerial view of roundabout in Anacortes (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/3951230720/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3461/3951231102_645a751054_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/3951231102/)
Aerial view of roundabout in Anacortes (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/3951231102/) by WSDOT (http://www.flickr.com/people/wsdot/), on Flickr
joshsam March 19th, 2012, 01:16 PM ^^They look good. Fit in well. It will reduce travel time and avoid a lot of collisions :)
joshsam March 19th, 2012, 03:17 PM IKEA, Ličge, Belgium
http://www.eloy.be/media/cms/travaux/realisations/619_web.jpg
http://www.eloy.be/media/cms/travaux/realisations/619_web.jpg
dmjar May 1st, 2012, 02:22 AM This is a good hybrid between a junction/dual carriageway and a roundabout.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=stretford&hl=en&ll=53.464011,-2.283558&spn=0.003596,0.008229&sll=52.608416,-1.643786&sspn=0.014672,0.032916&t=k&gl=uk&hnear=Stretford,+United+Kingdom&z=17
Tom 958 May 1st, 2012, 01:50 PM This is a good hybrid between a junction/dual carriageway and a roundabout.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=stretford&hl=en&ll=53.464011,-2.283558&spn=0.003596,0.008229&sll=52.608416,-1.643786&sspn=0.014672,0.032916&t=k&gl=uk&hnear=Stretford,+United+Kingdom&z=17
Looks more like a dog's breakfast to me. :lol:
Here are some not-very-good photos of the Emory Village roundabout (http://g.co/maps/74raj) near Atlanta. It replaces a notorious traffic light at this five-way intersection, and it seems to be an aesthetic and operational success, combined as it was with a variety of streetscape improvements for this walkable retail/restaurant district.
There are very few roundabouts in Atlanta, but here there are two within a couple of blocks of each other-- I think the western Lullwater roundabout was the first true roundabout in metro Atlanta. When it was first built, the left lane of westbound North Decatur Road was terminated before the roundabout by means of a surprise compulsory left turn into an apartment complex, but the Emory Village roundabout project also restriped that part of North Decatur Road from four lanes to 2 + 2WLT + bike lanes, eliminating the surprise compulsory left turn.
http://www.emoryvillage.org/images/Emory%20Village%20Roundabout%20Rendering%20medium.jpg
http://www.emoryvillage.org/images/crosswalk_small.jpg
http://www.emoryvillage.org/images/Walker%20roundabout%20small.jpg
I saw an 18 wheeler get stuck in the roundabout, though it wasn't a fair test: the truck apron had just been poured and was blocked off from traffic. Fortunately one of the construction workers explained to the truck driver that he could get to where he was going by making a right turn and using a side street to bypass the roundabout.
ChrisZwolle May 1st, 2012, 01:57 PM Atlanta appears to be a somewhat hostile environment for roundabouts. It has a lack of a dense freeway network, which means the arterials are wide and busy, unfavorable for roundabouts. Though metropolitan Atlanta is less dense than nearly all other major U.S. metropolitan areas, which means there could be more space for roundabouts than in say Dallas or Miami. The main problem with fitting roundabouts in an existing road network is acquiring a right-of-way. Roundabouts simply require more space than traffic signals.
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