Here are a couple of pics I took the other day. There are a couple construction sites that are missing (Jasper Properties, U of A area, etc), so this isn't a complete compilation.

Parliament (now started on residential tower)
http://x4.putfile.com/9/25312451315.jpg

http://x4.putfile.com/9/2531245299.jpg

Altavista

http://x4.putfile.com/9/25312460255.jpg

The Imperial (construction started)

http://x4.putfile.com/9/25312462997.jpg

Rivervista

http://x4.putfile.com/9/25312465875.jpg

Illuminada (near completion)

http://x4.putfile.com/9/25312522477.jpg

keep em coming....we should see another 4 cranes in spring

very interesting - specially Illuminada (not used to seeing clear glass used on highrise anymore) Is it stucco or precast?

I believe it's precast.

The other interesting thing about this building is that they originally wanted to build it quite a bit taller (not sure exactly how tall) but the lot turned out to have a height restriction. I've also heard that a similar tower (possibly a different height) is planned right next door. Can anybody confirm that?

^correct....there was/is to be an "illuminada 2"

height restrictions, eh? well that suck

And I thought strategic zoning forcing developers to always re-zone and a strong NIMBY presence were bad


well ... most of the time

^our municipal airport overlay is responsible.

...oh wait...for that site it was zoning i think

A picture of one of the 30-storey Icon towers is up on the website

www.theicon.ca

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/4473icon.jpg

On some other project updates - Illuminada 2 is proposed and another 12-storey condo highrise on Jasper (near the Illuminada) is in the approvals stage.

I also heard that Altavista tower 2 is in pre-sales with construction starting in Spring??

The crane tower is up at the Rivervista site, they just have to install the boom.

This must be going a long way to helping downtown get rid of all those empty parking lots.
Are there still a lot to get rid of?

..What's the chance of that airport ever closing down? What's it used for anyways, I thought EIA would be enough to service the region?

^ Chances are pretty good that the Muni's eventually going to be closed to ALL airline passenger service, if not entirely. (it is currently serving only flights with 10 seats or less, I think)

A third runway is apparently being planned for Edmonton International Airport in the near future. (IATA Airport Code YEG) That could well be the final nail in the coffin for the Muni.

Apart from the limited airline passenger service, the Muni is a major GA airport for the Edmonton Region and is also used for medevacs and other medically related flights because the largest hospital in Edmonton, The Royal Alexandra, lies very close to it. The Muni is also used by business jet charters quite a bit, too. The airport authority is reluctant to allow more GA traffic at YEG because of certain potential problems - there is nothing more aggravating than having a Cessna break down in the middle of a runway while an A320's waiting to take off! A third runway would help greatly.

This must be going a long way to helping downtown get rid of all those empty parking lots.
Are there still a lot to get rid of?


This will take one of the largest in the core away....and yes there are a few, but in the past couple of years i would guess about 1/3 have been taken away.

^Great news. There is nothing worse than a downtown with a whole bunch of parking lots.
Makes the city look ugly and depressing.

^ Chances are pretty good that the Muni's eventually going to be closed to ALL airline passenger service, if not entirely. (it is currently serving only flights with 10 seats or less, I think)

A third runway is apparently being planned for Edmonton International Airport in the near future. (IATA Airport Code YEG) That could well be the final nail in the coffin for the Muni.

Apart from the limited airline passenger service, the Muni is a major GA airport for the Edmonton Region and is also used for medevacs and other medically related flights because the largest hospital in Edmonton, The Royal Alexandra, lies very close to it. The Muni is also used by business jet charters quite a bit, too. The airport authority is reluctant to allow more GA traffic at YEG because of certain potential problems - there is nothing more aggravating than having a Cessna break down in the middle of a runway while an A320's waiting to take off! A third runway would help greatly.


Any chance Edmonton build its own International Airport, instead of using Leduc's? Joking aside, the thing is so darn far that it will only become of reasonable proximity when the city grows to the size of metro New York. Though Calgary and Edmonton are virtually the same size, Calgary's airport has more than double the passenger traffic! [~225% of the traffic at Edmonton International]

Any chance Edmonton build its own International Airport, instead of using Leduc's? Joking aside, the thing is so darn far that it will only become of reasonable proximity when the city grows to the size of metro New York. Though Calgary and Edmonton are virtually the same size, Calgary's airport has more than double the passenger traffic! [~225% of the traffic at Edmonton International]

...and the hits keep on coming.

Two things - Ask the Canadian Armed Forces (Hint: Look at good map of Edmonton and look just north of the city limits east of St. Albert)

Edmonton does NOT have to be the size of Metro NY in order for YEG to be of reasonable proximity, for chrissakes! All you have to do is build an LRT extension to YEG, which is a hell of lot more plausible.

Actually its not far from the city. Of Canada's 6 largest metros only one has the airport within city limits Calgary and I guess Ottawa does now too. Plus in terms of distance its not that far.

not to mention that YYC is an air canada hub which helps just a little....and they "double count" meaning a transfering passenger is counted twice....if edmonton did that we would be likely around 6.5million-7million....

but edmonton's passenger increases have been equal to or higher than calgary this yr.

Any chance Edmonton build its own International Airport, instead of using Leduc's? Joking aside, the thing is so darn far that it will only become of reasonable proximity when the city grows to the size of metro New York. Though Calgary and Edmonton are virtually the same size, Calgary's airport has more than double the passenger traffic! [~225% of the traffic at Edmonton International]
Comparing travel times between Calgary and Edmonton from downtown to airport is actually not that different. It takes approx. 10 min more in Edmonton vs. Calgary. So although the 'physical' distance may be far, the overall travel times aren't.

Secondly, Calgary is the gateway to the Rockies, which is one of the country's largest tourist destinations. Basically, vacation traffic adds alot.

And as mentioned by coldrsx, they do double-count.

I don't think Edmonton's International Airport is that far out. Too expensive to take a cab maybe but the shuttle is pretty standard in cost if I recall. They should close the city airport and do away with those bloody height limits though. Edmonton needs to get all excited and develope a serious stiffy complex. A nice 50 story would be good enough and litter the core with flats galore w/a Chapters downtown of course - couldn't survivie without one of those. It's time Edmonton played urban rather than suburban, especially considering the downtown is so beautifully situated. I think the transition has already started but time for the fast forward button Edmonton. Now if Ralph aka Mr Calgary would only give the city some of that surplus money. Start with a massive transit expansion, not just a couple of stations. It's high time WEM got linked and NOW.

^ I completely agree!

Another airline prepares to serve YEG.

Delta to fly international from SLC
New plan: The airline will make flights to other countries part of its debt recovery because they are more profitable
By Paul Beebe
The Salt Lake Tribune

Delta Air Lines will announce new non-stop service from Salt Lake City to Edmonton, Alberta, next week and may pick up service to Mexico City dropped by AeroMexico when it abruptly pulled out of Salt Lake last month.


http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_3120429

^good to see...SLC is a money maker.

I don't think Edmonton's International Airport is that far out. Too expensive to take a cab maybe but the shuttle is pretty standard in cost if I recall.

Here's a map showing Edmonton and "its" airport. The airport is the grey block West of the town of Nisku near the bottom of the map:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=edmonton,+ab&ll=53.411988,-113.503876&spn=0.461128,1.210693&hl=en

Here's a map showing Calgary and its airport. The airport is well within Calgary city limits - the grey block by the highway 2 icon. Calgary downtown is at where the text "Calgary" is:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=calgary,+ab&spn=0.486445,1.210693&hl=en

NOTE - both maps have the same scale. Edmonton's airport looks to be about 6 times further from Edmonton downtown than Calgary's airport is to its downtown.

Edmonton needs to get all excited and develope a serious stiffy complex. A nice 50 story would be good enough and litter the core with flats galore w/a Chapters downtown of course - couldn't survivie without one of those.

What would Edmonton do with a 50 story tower? Homeless shelter perhaps, or maybe the worlds largest mall in a tower :) Okay, I'm just kidding.

Calgary's largest tenants are banks and energy companies. World HQ for EnCana [most profitable company in Canada], PetroCanada, TransCanada Pipelines, etcetera. Canadian HQ for Imperial/Esso, etcetera. Western Canadian HQ for Royal Bank, CIBC, Bank of Montreal, TD. Who are the Edmonton heavywieghts realtive to these, that might be able to sustain a REAL project?

What would Edmonton do with a 50 story tower? Homeless shelter perhaps, or maybe the worlds largest mall in a tower :) Okay, I'm just kidding.

Calgary's largest tenants are banks and energy companies. World HQ for EnCana [most profitable company in Canada], PetroCanada, TransCanada Pipelines, etcetera. Canadian HQ for Imperial/Esso, etcetera. Western Canadian HQ for Royal Bank, CIBC, Bank of Montreal, TD. Who are the Edmonton heavywieghts realtive to these, that might be able to sustain a REAL project?
Canadian Western Bank, EPCOR, Stantec Consulting, PCL Construction, Bioware, Matrikon, etc.....there are quite a few.

Calgary's office market is primarily driven by the oil and gas sector.

Canadian Western Bank, EPCOR, Stantec Consulting, PCL Construction, Bioware, Matrikon, etc.....there are quite a few.

Most of those are mom & pop operations. In contrast, just EnCana is worth maybe $50 Billion with 2004 net earnings of $3.5 Billion. That's what it takes to build a 2M sqft building complex. You can't expect Bioware, with its 245 employees to compete against that? Or perhaps Canadian Western Bank, with all of its 29 branches?

Calgary's office market is primarily driven by the oil and gas sector.

Calgary's current top ten list is as follows:

1 Petro-Canada Centre - West - ENERGY
2 Bankers Hall - West - BANK (Royal Bank)
3 Bankers Hall - East - BANK (CIBC)
4 Calgary Tower - TOURISM
5 Canterra Tower - ENERGY
6 TransCanada Tower - ENERGY
7 First Canadian Centre - BANK (Bank of Montreal)
8 Western Canadian Place - ENERGY
9 TD Canada Trust Tower - (TD)
10 Scotia Centre - BANK (Scotia Bank)

Now, CLEARLY, the fact that five of the top ten are bank buildings supports my prior post. Calgary's tall buildings are not all oil and gas related.

I tend to agree with Walli.
Edmonton and Calgary are both reliant on oil as their big economic engines but Calgary's is more the white collar end of it resulting in the need for more office space.

Look at Vancouver. It is a decidedly branch plant city compared to other major cities and although there are a lot of buildings downtown most are residential or hotels.

You don't build what you can't fill.

Calgary top fifteen buildings total 8082 feet [average of five hundred thirty plus]
Edmonton top fifteen buildings total 5832 feet [average of three hundred some]

Edmonton's tallest building wouldn't even break Calgary's top ten!
Edmonton's 5th tallest would make Calgary's top 25 by one foot!

Thats a pretty insulting comment. There is no reason for that.

Remember I just mentioned Vancouver? Well if you think Edmonton is bad look at this. I did some research and found that Vancouver doesn't have one , I repeat that, doesn't have one company publically traded headquarters listed in the top 35 in 2004 by revenue. Now that's beyond pathetic.
You think Edmonton is bad?

now , now , Calgary is still the wild west , Where the city sometimes feels more like Montana ,then Canada , no offence. Just an idea from a fur trader .
:)

Most of those are mom & pop operations. In contrast, just EnCana is worth maybe $50 Billion with 2004 net earnings of $3.5 Billion. That's what it takes to build a 2M sqft building complex. You can't expect Bioware, with its 245 employees to compete against that? Or perhaps Canadian Western Bank, with all of its 29 branches?
My point was that Edmonton does have a fair number of companies that have started to gain some momentum and have become larger players.

Using Encana is a poor comparison as there are very few Canadian companies that can compete.


Calgary's current top ten list is as follows:

1 Petro-Canada Centre - West - ENERGY
2 Bankers Hall - West - BANK (Royal Bank)
3 Bankers Hall - East - BANK (CIBC)
4 Calgary Tower - TOURISM
5 Canterra Tower - ENERGY
6 TransCanada Tower - ENERGY
7 First Canadian Centre - BANK (Bank of Montreal)
8 Western Canadian Place - ENERGY
9 TD Canada Trust Tower - (TD)
10 Scotia Centre - BANK (Scotia Bank)

Now, CLEARLY, the fact that five of the top ten are bank buildings supports my prior post. Calgary's tall buildings are not all oil and gas related.
You do realize that these building are only named after the company that purchased the naming rights and does not necessarily mean it is a major tenant.

Read any office market report and it will clearly state the the office market is primarily driven by the Oil & Gas sector. Just take a look and see where the demand for space is coming from.

http://www.avisonyoung.com/library/pdf/Calgary/Research/Q2_Office_Review_1.pdf

http://www.colliersmn.com/prod/cclod.nsf/city/49BCC2622612591C8725704B0059972D/$File/Q2+2005+Downtown+Perspective.pdf

Calgary top fifteen buildings total 8082 feet [average of five hundred thirty plus]
Edmonton top fifteen buildings total 5832 feet [average of three hundred some]

Edmonton's tallest building wouldn't even break Calgary's top ten!
Edmonton's 5th tallest would make Calgary's top 25 by one foot!
That's b/c we have an airport 1 mile NW of downtown and there are height restrictions. This is also why our skyline looks like it has a brushcut.

comparing edm and cal is like comparing NY and boston IMO...both are amazing cities in their own right, but to compare them on anything other than baseball (hockey) is ridiculous

comparing edm and cal is like comparing NY and boston IMO...both are amazing cities in their own right, but to compare them on anything other than baseball (hockey) is ridiculous

Maybe NY and Buffalo.

Maybe NY and Buffalo.
Hahaha....

More like Denver and Minneapolis

Maybe NY and Buffalo.



oh come on....calgary is a slight step up from buffalo.

oh come on....calgary is a slight step up from buffalo.

Its all relative I guess. I didn't mean NY NY, but rather Columbus NY, as representative of Edmonton.

Oilfield construction giant moves north where the action is
Willbros Canada HQ leaves Calgary, opens new plant in Edmonton

Gordon Jaremko
The Edmonton Journal

Friday, October 21, 2005

EDMONTON - Edmonton is now an oil capital in the eyes of a 97-year-old global pipeline and oilfield construction chain about to add a big Alberta link.

"The centre has moved north," Willbros MSI Canada Inc. president Ralph Hesje said as his firm put finishing touches on a new 130,000-square-foot head office and plant in south Edmonton for a ribbon-cutting Nov. 1 ceremony starring Mayor Stephen Mandel.

"The mayor likes to say Edmonton is the gateway to the North -- and in fact it really is," Hesje said in an interview.

An ex-Calgarian, he is moving the Canadian headquarters of Willbros to Edmonton from Calgary after obtaining oilsands project orders expected to fuel sustained corporate and employment growth. "Our operations were in Fort McMurray. Our clients were in Calgary. You have to be close to your clients. But you also have to be close to what's going on in the field," he said.

A "significant presence" will be retained among Calgary office towers of oilsands project owners, he added. But Hesje will live in the field, where he predicts the action will stay hot for years to come. He and wife Carol have moved to Fort McMurray.

The Edmonton event will celebrate re-entry into Canada by an old oil household name akin to Halliburton, Schlumberger and Baker Hughes. Willbros employs up to 4,750 employees in an international network based in Houston and Panama City. Founded in 1908, it has built more than 200,000 kilometres of pipelines in 50 countries and expanded into an array of construction specialties from engineering and project management to fabricating offshore installations in "modular" pieces.

After building big sections of the Canadian oil and gas pipeline grid during the Alberta industry's first growth era following the 1947 Leduc discovery, Willbros pulled out as the action tapered off.

The firm started its return by doing a 2001 takeover of Calgary-based MSI Energy Services, a private specialist in pipeline maintenance inside oilsands complexes.

Canadian operations have since grown about six-fold from initial annual revenues in the range of $10-$15 million, Hesje said.

The new Edmonton plant is a bright spot in the Willbros network. Elsewhere the firm has warned investors its 2002, '03 and '04 earnings will be restated at reduced levels following an investigation into alleged misconduct by a dismissed former executive in Nigeria, Bolivia and Ecuador.

"You feel a bit like a kid in a candy store in Alberta today," Hesje said.

"The opportunities are here and they're huge. The problem is finding the right people with the right skills."

The firm is recruiting scarce trades workers to fill orders from Syncrude Canada and Canadian Natural Resources Ltd.'s $10-billion Horizon oilsands project.

In addition to keeping about 300 employees in the northern oilsands region, Willbros MSI Canada needs to quadruple its Edmonton payroll into a range of 200 to 300 staff, not counting subcontractors.

"We're going to make this the best place for anybody in this field to work in Edmonton," Hesje vowed. Conditions will be suitable for an anticipated new generation of female blue-collar workers, he added.

The firm is converting notoriously rugged outdoor labour on oilsands projects into warm, clean indoor jobs except for final assembly on northern plant sites. The approach adopts methods of making offshore oil and gas platforms in pieces on land. Shop managers include veterans of East Coast shipyards.

"We're not going to do anything outside," Hesje said. "This is closer to an auto assembly plant than a construction site."

With 19 mobile overhead cranes capable of lifting up to 35 tonnes each, six fabrication and assembly bays and mega-doors nine metres tall and nine metres wide, the cavernous 92,570-square-foot factory will make the biggest oilsands plant sections that Alberta allows on trucks bound north to Fort McMurray.

The streamlined production system includes organizing the employees in the oilsands industry's controversial but growing "alternative union," the Christian Labor Association of Canada.

Unlike traditional construction craft unions, CLAC includes all trades, and members do tasks that are not strictly part of their specialties. Welders and pipefitters, for instance, are trained to use the overhead gantries and only have to wait for master crane operators to do the heaviest "engineered lifts," Hesje said.

"It's a manufacturing workforce. It's not a construction workforce."

gjaremko@thejournal.canwest.com

So , its just a plant right ? no new tower yet ? oh well , start small the go for all the glory.

So , its just a plant right ? no new tower yet ? oh well , start small the go for all the glory.
Willbros MSI Canada Inc. president Ralph Hesje said as his firm put finishing touches on a new 130,000-square-foot head office and plant in south Edmonton

Office and plant. All they are doing is moving their accounting and some exec positions.

I always laugh at how Edmonton is protrayed as so terribly poor & blue collar. Yeah, those government employees and science sector guys are seriously underpaid are they not? Maybe Albertans should give all your your civil servants a 20% raise to get over that poor image. lol

And walli sure Calgary has its corporate advantage (though those companies might start to like Edmonton rents, never know lately Sydney has lost HQ back to Melb over CBD rents. $$ is important afterall) but at least you know better than to say Calgary is the arts capital of Alberta. Coming from you it be like Moose Jaw taking the piss out of Toronto citing its lack of culture and fine dining.

Still, the great thing about Alberta is that its really fortunate to have two great and yes, different cities. Both have their advantages and disadvantages in relation to each another. To say one is better than the other is a waste.

ps. I hope its not the presence of all those U of A students that gives Edmonton the blue collar label. You could blame them for the REDmonton label perhaps. lol
U of A isn't as Stephen Harper friendly as U of C or so I've heard.

^hahaha....well said.

Edmonton disposable incomes are on par with toronto...possibly even ahead now. You can make 250,000/yr but if you can only spend 20,000 then DI counts.

Yeah Edmonton is far from a poor city. But everyone forgets that the civil service, engineers and researchers (Capital Health is the largest integrated health region in Canada now) might not be a part of a downtown corporation, they do tend to be professionals with great pay. Plus the fact that there over 100,000 students are in Edmonton tends to be missed in all of this. Students are not blue collar people. These people are educated and tend to find jobs in the city. Plus in terms of Educational institutions and reseach in Alberta, its basically Edmonton for Alberta. The U of A is heads and sholders above anywhere else in the province. Grant Mac and NAIT are miles ahead of their other provincial counterparts. These professors and researchers make good money and this always gets missed. While the corporations may not have the HQ's here guess where they give research dollars? Something to remember. While its true Edmonton has a huge amount of blue collar work, but at the same token there is more than just that. Remember Ontario has the auto industry centred basically in the GTA (Oakville and Oshawa which I consider as Greater Toronto) but you always think downtown Canada as well. This is always missed in Edmonton for some reason.

^hahaha....well said.

Edmonton disposable incomes are on par with toronto...possibly even ahead now. You can make 250,000/yr but if you can only spend 20,000 then DI counts.

Actually I think disposeable income its ahead of Toronto. Toronto is actually 4th as Ottawa and Calgary are also ahead of TO in that capacity.

Actually, Edmonton has the second most diverse economy in Canada, slightly behind Winnipeg. That gives you an indication that Edmonton has a colourful mix of blue, grey and white collar jobs.

I find Edmonton a more well rounded city than Calgary both economically and socially.
Calgary still has much of that rah-rah pro business conservative attitude that can be irratating after a while.
Edmonton, in IMHO, is seen across the country as Alberta's premier health, education, government, cultural, intellectual, and hitech capitol.
When people think of Calgary they think of oil, money, and red-neck cowboys and not much else. Edmonton doesn't suffer from that. When it finally regains a truly vibrant and populated downtown than Edmonton will once again take her place as one of Canda's most important cities.

ssiguy2 its slowly happening. The core is gaining vibrancy all the time.

Guys - relax. You have a very nice city up in Edmonton. No need to get all defensive.

What Edmonton's got going for it:
- UofA ... absolutely the most significant university in Alberta, ranking nationally and internationally on many fronts. In fact, UofC was a campus of the UofA till not that long ago
- Seat of the provincial government. Was decided years ago when Edmonton was a bigger centre. Irrespective of why it happened, fact is, it is the capital.
- It's proximity to the oil-sands, a massive resource, cannot be denied or taken away.
- Absolutely is a great centre of arts, culture and diversity
- Less Harper-esque red necks [and just so you know, I likely vote more like an "Edmontonian" than a "Calgarian"]
- It's the half way stop to the North [okay - just a joke ... relax]

What Calgary's got going for it:
- Geographically more centred in context of Western Canada and the North-West quadrant of North America
- Proximity to the US market
- Gateway to the mountains and related tourist industry attractions
- A good transportation and city frame-work [roads, etcetera]
- A larger GDP [20%-25% more than Edmonton]
- International mind-share [irrespective of if that is from the '88 Olypmics, the Calgary Stampede, the tourism industry in general, International surveys saying it's a top ten city world-wide, or business related items]

Yes, I understand that downtown Edmonton is finally coming back with avengece and that is great news.
Edmonton is often referred to back east as Ed-mono-tone, a label that it earned through stellar examples of bad urban planning. I think that is slowly changing.
People are starting to see it in a more positive light. I think most have always seen Edmonton as a more liberal city than her southern rival.
It will take much more downtown urban development for it to totally lose that image but I think that has finally started.
Keep up the good work Edmonton.

This gives you an indication as to the confidence in the Edmonton economy and market. Building on spec is a risky venture.
$25-million office complex, warehouse going up in southeast

Ron Chalmers
The Edmonton Journal
Thursday, October 27, 2005

EDMONTON - Sun Life Financial will invest up to $25 million in southeast Edmonton, building a warehouse and two office buildings.

"Edmonton is one of the strongest growth markets in Canada," says Sun Life Financial vice-president Phil Gillin. "Southeast Edmonton seems to be one of the strongest areas."

A site now is being cleared for a 64,000-square-foot warehouse northeast of 51st Avenue and 86th Street in the company's Commerce South complex. "We expect to have the building open by July 1, 2006," says Philip Markovich, vice-president of Bentall Real Estate, which will lease and manage the property.

No tenants have been signed, which "could be risky," in a slower economy, he says. "We are confident that the building will be at least one-half leased by opening, and fully leased by the end of next year."

Southeast Edmonton's industrial vacancy rate is below three per cent, Markovich says. "There is a significant demand for new buildings with higher ceilings, more power and deeper bays."

The 24-foot ceilings will allow higher stacking than the 19-foot ceilings in many older buildings, he says. The 2,000-amp electrical service will power almost any equipment.

Darrell Halliwell of Cohos Evamy designed the $5 million structure, with a stone and stucco exterior.

Sun Life Financial also has commissioned a three-storey, 45,000-square-foot office building in its Albrumac Business Centre, southwest of 51st Avenue and 86th Street. The year-long construction project will start next summer.

Again, no tenants are signed but Gillin is not worried. "There has not been a new suburban office building built in Edmonton for some time," he says.

"This is a great location, by the freeway, in a strong neighbourhood."

After the first office building is completed and leased, a second, two-storey, 50,000-square-foot office building will be added.

With 25,000-square-foot floor plates, it will be suitable for large tenants such as engineering companies, Gillin says. The smaller building could hold smaller tenants.

Henry Maisonneuve of Cohos Evamy designed the two clean-lined modern-style buildings, to be clad in metal and stucco.

Their combined cost is estimated at up to $20 million.

Sun Life Financial now has three buildings, totalling 155,000 square feet, on the Albrumac site. They are fully leased.

rchalmers@thejournal.canwest.com

Its wierd how so many people automatically think of Calgary when they think of Alberta.. Edmonton is just as great of a city, if not better in some ways!

"- International mind-share [irrespective of if that is from the '88 Olypmics, the Calgary Stampede, the tourism industry in general, International surveys saying it's a top ten city world-wide, or business related items]"

....WTF? ever hear of IAAF, World Masters, etc. etc....not an olympics, but overall Edmonton has hosted more international events.

"- International mind-share [irrespective of if that is from the '88 Olypmics, the Calgary Stampede, the tourism industry in general, International surveys saying it's a top ten city world-wide, or business related items]"

....WTF? ever hear of IAAF, World Masters, etc. etc....not an olympics, but overall Edmonton has hosted more international events.

I think I was fair in my comments. On the business front, Calgary has more HQ buildings so is more known from that angle. From a tourism front, Calgary is the gateway to the rockies, particularly world famous Banff National Park, among others. Also on the tourism front, Calgary's Stampede celebrations are definitely on the International map. On the sporting events front, though the Olymics out rank most of the Edmonton hosted events, I will rightfully concede that Edmonton has had a larger volume of events [that's why I brought up the Calgary needs a new stadium thread some time ago]. Overall, I'm certain Calgary has better International mind-share. The most recent Economist magazine survey put Calgary as the fifth best city in the world:

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?no=251994&rel_no=1

One more fact to bring to the table. In 2004, Calgary had ~2.5M international and transborder passengers at it's airport. Edmonton, in the same year, had only ~0.66M international and transborder passengers at its airport.

Passenger info details:
http://www.calgaryairport.com/fts/getfile.cfm?FID=6504
http://www.edmontonairports.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=13-68-373

Calgary's Stampede celebrations are definitely on the International map.
Of course they are... :weirdo:

Thats a pretty insulting comment. There is no reason for that.

Remember I just mentioned Vancouver? Well if you think Edmonton is bad look at this. I did some research and found that Vancouver doesn't have one , I repeat that, doesn't have one company publically traded headquarters listed in the top 35 in 2004 by revenue. Now that's beyond pathetic.
You think Edmonton is bad?

Wow, I guess you never quit smoking rock. You need to understand that all city's are not HQ corporate super centres. Vancouver has a very diverse economy based on resources, the flow of goods (eg. containers) and world leading technology industries such as Biotech, media technology and a massive movie industry. Vancouver's economy is booming and it is not just baded on one resource.

Very true but still no head offices at all? In Canada's third largest city that is still bizzare.
Back to Edmonton.
WhenEdmonton hosted the big Track and Field thing {can't remember the name} I don't think it helped the city much.
That was 5 years ago and the international press didn't exactly send ringing endorsements of the city. Some where down right offensive.
I think with the new Edmonton downtown coming back if they were to return in 5 years I think their view would change for the better.

What? Isn't Calgary Canada's 3rd largest? Or is that Ottawa. I'll find out. No, it's calgary.

^calgary is but vancouver is essentially

City of Calgary has more population than city of Vancouver, but metro Vancouver has *way* greater population than metro Calgary.

Below is old data, but it provides the picture ...

By city (2001)
1 Toronto, Ontario 2,481,494
2 Montreal, Quebec 1,812,723
3 Calgary, Alberta 878,866
4 Ottawa, Ontario 774,610
5 Edmonton, Alberta 666,104
...
8 Vancouver, British Columbia 545,671

By metro (2005 est)
1 Toronto CMA (Mississauga), Ontario 5,203,600
2 Montreal CMA (Laval), Québec 3,650,000
3 Vancouver CMA (Surrey), British Columbia 2,150,000
4 Ottawa-Gatineau CMA, Ontario-Québec 1,220,000
5 Calgary CMA, Alberta 1,150,000

Rank by city population:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_cities_in_Canada_by_population

Rank by metropolitan population:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_metropolitan_areas_in_Canada

Very true but still no head offices at all? In Canada's third largest city that is still bizzare.
Back to Edmonton.
WhenEdmonton hosted the big Track and Field thing {can't remember the name} I don't think it helped the city much.
That was 5 years ago and the international press didn't exactly send ringing endorsements of the city. Some where down right offensive.
I think with the new Edmonton downtown coming back if they were to return in 5 years I think their view would change for the better.

That, sir, was the IAAF championships. :bash:

And if anything, I've actually had positive reviews of how Edmonton from others from outside of Canada in other chat rooms, BTW.

Sorry, ya just couldn't remember the name.............D'oh.
I find Calgary a very clean, pleasant, and likeable city but its just a tad sterile.
I've never gotten than impretion of Edmonton. Always thought of it as being a more cultural city.
Edmonton does have one true downfall, its crime/murder rate. It is considerably higher than Calgary's and well over, like all of the West, the national average.

Here's hoping The Icon becomes the next domino in the row for downtown
Stylish condo project on street-smart pedestal fits well with Warehouse District

Paula Simons
The Edmonton Journal

Tuesday, November 08, 2005

More Columns By This Writer
:: Elaborate interchange a new way of building
:: New bridges should cure city's clogged arteries
:: Where's the Alberta beef at American steakhouse?
:: Why in the world did this happen? : Sara Easton's shooting seems senseless, pointless and uniquely stupid
:: LRT expansion on track to put people in right places
:: Downtown comes alive with athletes, spectators ... even Telus pickets

Things on 104th Street are looking up. Way up. (But don't call Rusty.)

Look, instead, for The Icon, the biggest, tallest condominium project ever to hit the downtown core.

Over the last two years, Edmonton's city centre has enjoyed a mini building boom, with loft conversions and new apartment blocks popping up all over. But The Icon, which will rise just north of Jasper Avenue, right behind the current site of the Cecil Hotel, promises to be the most eye-popping, in terms of both size and location.

The Icon is a project of Langham Properties Ltd., a relatively new Edmonton developer. Company president Reza Mostashari and his partner, Medi Nasseri, are planning to build twin towers, each 30 storeys tall.

Mostashari announced plans for the project in June. Now, he has completed his purchase of the property, arranged for all the necessary development permits, and begun his preliminary marketing campaign. Crews are building an on-site sales office right now, and Mostashari intends to begin official pre-sales of condo units next month. Construction is to start early in the new year.

More than 200 people have already registered at the project website, www.theicon.ca, for more information.

"But you never know how many people will actually go and put their money down," laughs Mostashari." Obviously, there is enthusiasm out there. It's a great location, one of the best in the downtown. If we can build a beautiful building, we can transform that enthusiasm into contracts."

The condo towers will sit, recessed from the street, atop a four-storey brick-clad pedestal. The pedestal, designed to blend, as closely as possible, with heritage warehouse lofts that line 104th Street, will hold an enclosed parkade, as well as 540 square metres of retail and office space.

Mostashari says he hopes to attract a good range of commercial tenants: shops, restaurants, perhaps medical or dental offices.

"They will have to meet certain standards," he adds. "They definitely have to be businesses that suit the overall character of the building and the neighbourhood."

The roof of the pedestal, he says, will be landscaped as a private rooftop garden for residential tenants. The south tower, which will have 142 units, will go up first.

Mostashari's marketing strategy is to create a building that suits a wide range of buyers. The smaller one-bedroom units, most on the lower floors, will start at about $175,000. The larger units rise considerably in value, culminating in six $600,000-$700,000 sub-penthouses and two million-dollar penthouse suites. The idea is to target everyone from university students looking for an easy LRT ride to campus to empty-nest boomer and seniors, to downtown professionals, looking for ultimate luxury.

The architect for The Icon is Fraser Brinsmead, who also designed Langham's last major condo project, the blue and white Omega, at 105th Street and 99th Avenue.

The Icon has a similar sleek white look, although the towers are slimmer, and the curtain wall will be tinted charcoal, the better to match the Warehouse Heritage District.

"You have to be careful not to be too trendy, because then, in a few years, you're going to look obsolete," he says. "I wanted the design to be timeless, not too avant-garde. It's a very simple structure. Some people have said, 'Why don't you add more elements?' But I think then you risk looking ridiculous over time."

Assuming that Langham pulls this project off, it will be a considerable vindication for city planners, and for city council, which passed strict new heritage design standards for the Warehouse District last year. Mostashari worked quite happily with the new zoning, and hence, never had to go to council for approval of his design.

Still, I doubt everyone on 104th Street will be happy with this news. The first-generation loft dwellers, the urban pioneers who reclaimed this heritage area, are fiercely proud of their neighbourhood.

For many, any highrises, no matter how upscale, how classy, will ruin its unique historic feel.

I sympathize. The Warehouse District is special, and it is important to respect its esthetic, and the feelings of those whose commitment brought it back to vibrant life.

But while The Icon will be tall, its height will allow it to house hundreds of people in a relatively small urban footprint. We don't usually think of high-density towers as environmentally friendly; but stacking people up like this is, after all, the antithesis of suburban sprawl. Plus, the four-level pedestal should behave more like a smaller building, engaging passersby at street level with its shops and cafes.

We need a critical mass of people in our downtown core if we really, truly want it to take off. There's so much good news happening in and around the Warehouse District.

The derelict Cecil is about to be torn down. The University of Alberta is taking over the Bay building. A new YMCA is under construction. Cafes and shops are popping up. Still, those new businesses need a strong, stable base of customers and clients if they are to stay in business. So too does the new downtown farmers market, especially if it has any hope of becoming a permanent, year-round operation.

Despite all the new growth, there are still far, far too many vacant storefronts and empty lots in and around Jasper Avenue.

If we don't want a downtown that looks derelict, we must have more people to call it home.

Here's hoping The Icon becomes the next domino in the row -- a true tipping point for Edmonton's city centre.

psimons@thejournal.canwest.com

here it is


http://www.kevin-foster.net/hosting/icon.png

KICK ASS!
I wish the city would shut down City Center Air Port and height's were raised . Id like to see OFFICE TOWER OF 45 FOORS IN EDMONTON announced on this thread.

What are the long term plans for that City Centre Airport? I keep hearing its closing, then its staying, its closing, then its staying. I say close it and centralize everything at YEG. The way things are going they'll keep it till 2020 and then go.....humm, maybe this land can be put to better use?

What is the absolute height limit for Edmonton anyway. Would they allow a 40 level tower? Be nice to see the boundries pushed a bit further.

Anyway, good news about the condo developements. Bring em' on. Nice to hear about UofA coming downtown. Anyone know when that Bay building is supposed to open with U of A as tenant? And thank god that YMCA is finding a new home. I remember going into it back in 97 and running out in horror and almost checking into the Sheraton in horror. I think I eventually went for a hotel further away from the seedy YMCA. The Sheraton was way too pricy considering it had that crack whore 'Y' princess as a neighbor.

What are the long term plans for that City Centre Airport? I keep hearing its closing, then its staying, its closing, then its staying. I say close it and centralize everything at YEG. The way things are going they'll keep it till 2020 and then go.....humm, maybe this land can be put to better use?

Trust me, they'll close it one way or another, eventually.

What is the absolute height limit for Edmonton anyway. Would they allow a 40 level tower? Be nice to see the boundries pushed a bit further.

The height limit is up to 150 m, but I don't think they'd be allowed to stick construction cranes any higher than that, but I'm not sure. Manulife Place is 146 m. A 40-storey tower is possible if you shrink the average ceiling height for each floor a bit.

Anyway, good news about the condo developements. Bring em' on. Nice to hear about UofA coming downtown. Anyone know when that Bay building is supposed to open with U of A as tenant? And thank god that YMCA is finding a new home. I remember going into it back in 97 and running out in horror and almost checking into the Sheraton in horror. I think I eventually went for a hotel further away from the seedy YMCA. The Sheraton was way too pricy considering it had that crack whore 'Y' princess as a neighbor.

Interesting. I've never seen any problems near the Y except for one time when I saw some guy come into the Smitty's Restaurant across the street screaming his head off. The guy was literally - and forcibly - hauled out by security guards and staff.

The Cecil was WAY worse. I remember pretty damn well the police having to get there almost every day just because somebody comitted a crime or something else equally stupid. (for that reason, knives and other concealed weapons are banned from low-end taverns like the one at Cecil) And I was harrassed by panhandlers and bums almost every single time I walked by Cecil when it was open.

Its a good thing that the Cecil is being knocked down soon. THe permit to tear is down has already been applied for.

CanadianCentaur
Thanks for the update!

yes...icon + new ymca + new cecil retail and restaurant development will literally change the face of the core....400 new people, new places to eat and shop, and a place for families or individuals alike to socialize and become fit.

only thing missing now is a new office tower which....as we know....is still a wee bit off, but not too far now.

Yes, a nice tower would be a good shot in the arm for Edmonton's skyline and pride.
Its people that make a city, though so I'm glad they are continuing the condos downtown.
I know that the population of downtown has doubled from about 6k to 12k last year in just in a decade, thats great news. I'm wondering how fast the population downtown is actually growing per year. Info?

^last i had heard....there are ~ 1000 units per year being finished in the core...which roughly translates into 1300 new residents per yr.

CanadianCentaur
Thanks for the update!
Actually, there already is a 45 storey building in Edmonton.....The Edmonton House Suite Hotel

http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=194945

Actually, there already is a 45 storey building in Edmonton.....The Edmonton House Suite Hotel

http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=194945

Yeah ... I guess it does. Who knew?

Checking out the link you provided, I see that the building is 121 m or 397 ft distributed over the 45 floors. I didn't think buldings can go much lower than 10 ft per floor, but this one does!

I went into the front lobby of the current YMCA by the Sutton (it ain't the Sheraton anymore!), and decided to just check it out. It's probably nowhere nearly as bad as Tri-City Guy made it out to be. In fact it's a very, very clean place. At least the front lobby is, anyways.

However, I won't be working out there. Instead, I'll be doing so at Grant McEwan - it's actually cheaper there, believe it or not. Go figure.

I noticed that there's also a huge rendering of the future YMCA and a couple of large floor plans on display in the front lobby.

Yeah ... I guess it does. Who knew?

Checking out the link you provided, I see that the building is 121 m or 397 ft distributed over the 45 floors. I didn't think buldings can go much lower than 10 ft per floor, but this one does!
Storeys means nothing, it comes down to overall height.

In residential / hotel buildings, the floor-ceiling is around 9ft with less than a foot between floors. Office buildings are different, typically 10-12ft floor-ceiling.

^last i had heard....there are ~ 1000 units per year being finished in the core...which roughly translates into 1300 new residents per yr.


Thanks for the info.
I have to say with 1000 units, a net pop gain of only 1300 seems a bit low.

Yeah I would guess that the 1000 units would be closer to 1800 people. But there are still more buildings in the works as well that are going to be coming on stream in the next couple years that will add to that total.

if i recall...it is ~ 1.3 persons per household in the downtown core.

I heard they started to sell the apartments that were for rent in Grand Central . I worked with the crew & helped build them and was curious if anyone knew?

I heard they started to sell the apartments that were for rent in Grand Central . I worked with the crew & helped build them and was curious if anyone knew?
One of the towers was converted into condominiums. As far as I know, the other 2 towers are still rentals.

Alright folks, I think its time to update the list of buildings, under construction, proposed and rumoured in Edmonton.

U/C

The Jasper Properties - 22s
Parliament - 17s
AltaVista Tower 1 - 13s
The Illuminada 42 m 12s
Rivervista - 12s
Don Mazankowski Health Centre - 12s
NINT - 8s
HREF- 7s
Robbins Health Centre - 7s?

Approved/Proposed

Tower B [Station Lands] 149 m 37s
Tower A [Station Lands] 149 m 34s
Collins Tower 32s
Hampton House - 30s
Icon (Tower 1) - 30s
Icon (Tower 2) - 30s
Founders Ridge - 23s
Tower D [Station Lands] 69 m 21s
Century Park - Tower 5 [Century Park] 24s
Century Park - Tower 8 [Century Park] 24s
Century Park - Tower 7 [Century Park] 24s
Century Park - Tower 6 [Century Park] 24s
Century Park - Tower 1 [Century Park] 20s
Century Park - Tower 4 [Century Park] 20s
Century Park - Tower 9 [Century Park] 20s
Century Park - Tower 10 [Century Park] 20s
Vivacity Tower 17s
Century Park - Tower 3 [Century Park] 18s
Century Park - Tower 2 [Century Park] 18s
Westcorp Malmo Plains Condo - 17s
AltaVista Tower 2 - 14s
Tower C [Station Lands] 69 m 15s
Landmark Condo (Old McDonald's on Jasper) - 12s
Ambulatory Learning Center - 12s?
Condo on 111 St (North of Jasper) - 10s?

Rumoured

Parliament 2
True North
River Green
WEM Apartment Building [West Edmonton Mall] 12s
WEM Office Building [West Edmonton Mall] 12s
WEM Hotel II [West Edmonton Mall] 38 m

Here is another new condo for downtown.

Founders Ridge - 23 storeys

http://x11.putfile.com/11/32114423612.jpg

Very attractive building. I wish they could have that kind of design in Vancouver. Everything in Vancouver is a glass box and very few have balconeys. They have what they call "enclosed balconeys" which just mean its a place to put chairs. There is no balconey at all. It just sounds good and makes you feel better when you purchase your 500sq ft condo downtown for $225k.

Balconies aren't really sleek or flexible (in terms of design flexibility and versatile) for Vancouver's type of condos...

EDIT: Inappropriate comment. That was a bad joke. Really bad joke. :bash:

^ You're joking right!? :weird:

THE CENTURY is the nasty TNP beast you're thinking of.
Century Park is our lovely TOD where the LRT will be terminating in 2010. It's being built at the old Heritage Mall site. I can't believe you haven't heard of it...so you must be joking...

Looky...not crap!
http://www.centurypark.ca/

EDIT:Another inapropriate comment

I think CenturyPark is a great idea. It gets rid of a ugly commerical site aand instead puts in a well planned TOD. Not everyones wants or can live downtown.
Its similar to Burnaby's MetroTown. If you have to live in the burbs for work or home affordability {especially in Vancouver} then it is the way to go.
Transit usuage in the MetroTown area is very high due to being a real hub of the bus routes and especially because the SkyTrain literally connects to the mall.
There are also two nearby stations, Paterson and RoyalOak which are becoming increasingly busy as room runs out of the direct MetroTown area.
Another excellent example is at Joyce station.
Was nothing but a field but has developed into a very pleasant and attractive high density TOD.
The amount of development that has occured along the ExpoLine has been quite amazing.

Yes, Century is in many ways a lot like Metrotown in Burnaby. But isn't Metrotown on an even bigger scale than Century Park or something, as I remember having gone through that place a couple of times?

Yes, I think it is and CenturyPark seems more along the line of the Joyce Skytrain development.
Remember, however, that one development often brings others. CenturyPark will start more TOD in the area to be close to the amenities and LRT at CenturyPark.
Someone has to break ground and this is CenturyPark OFFICIAL development but it will bring more. Just look at towntown Edmonton. A few year ago there was little going on but it just took a few developers with vision to see the potential and the creek has become a torrent and now downtown Edmonton is in it for the long hall.

Yes, I think it is and CenturyPark seems more along the line of the Joyce Skytrain development.
Remember, however, that one development often brings others. CenturyPark will start more TOD in the area to be close to the amenities and LRT at CenturyPark.
Someone has to break ground and this is CenturyPark OFFICIAL development but it will bring more. Just look at towntown Edmonton. A few year ago there was little going on but it just took a few developers with vision to see the potential and the creek has become a torrent and now downtown Edmonton is in it for the long hall.Very true...one thing leads to another...

Yes, I think it is and CenturyPark seems more along the line of the Joyce Skytrain development.
Remember, however, that one development often brings others. CenturyPark will start more TOD in the area to be close to the amenities and LRT at CenturyPark.
Someone has to break ground and this is CenturyPark OFFICIAL development but it will bring more. Just look at towntown Edmonton. A few year ago there was little going on but it just took a few developers with vision to see the potential and the creek has become a torrent and now downtown Edmonton is in it for the long hall.

very well said ssiguy. you are a very insightful, impartial, and knowledgable forumer... your comments are well appreciated =D

U/C

The Jasper Properties - 22s
Parliament - 17s
AltaVista Tower 1 - 13s
The Illuminada 42 m 12s
Rivervista - 12s
Don Mazankowski Health Centre - 12s
NINT - 8s
HREF- 7s
Robbins Health Centre - 7s?


Thanks for complining all the projects.

Living out in the East and hearing all the hoopla about the oil business creating all this wealth in Alberta, one tends to overexaggerate the growth in Edmonton and Calgary. It is good to see so many projects in the (literally) in the pipeline cause the present day construction for Edomonton is frankly not too impressive for a city of that stature.

very well said ssiguy. you are a very insightful, impartial, and knowledgable forumer... your comments are well appreciated =D

Thank you, I'm glad to be able to add to the conversation.

"the present day construction for Edomonton is frankly not too impressive for a city of that stature."

i would have to agree somewhat...but that list doesnt really dictate the changes in Edmonton. Yes, given the economics here we should see 2 or 3 new office towers, 20 new condo towers...but if you were here 5 yrs ago and now look at the city....there have been MAJOR CHANGES<>

agreed

I have also always thought the boom in Alberta is a bit overdone.
The economy is hot, incomes high, no debt, low taxes. It has everything except one.............people.
Despite all the crap about power shifting to the WEST, it isn't.
Montreal is growing faster than Calgary and Quebec the same rate as Alberta.
The GTA is growing faster than all four western PROVINCES combined.
In terms of population it is losing ground against Ont/Que.

I have also always thought the boom in Alberta is a bit overdone.
The economy is hot, incomes high, no debt, low taxes. It has everything except one.............people.
Despite all the crap about power shifting to the WEST, it isn't.
Montreal is growing faster than Calgary and Quebec the same rate as Alberta.
The GTA is growing faster than all four western PROVINCES combined.
In terms of population it is losing ground against Ont/Que.

Yes, if you take into account absolute numbers.

Quebec's population is growing faster than Alberta's, but only barely.

The GTA's population growth in absolute numbers is indeed staggering to say the least. And like Alberta, its share if the national population is also increasing.

Check this out if you wish....
Population by year, by province and territory
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02.htm

"the present day construction for Edomonton is frankly not too impressive for a city of that stature."

i would have to agree somewhat...but that list doesnt really dictate the changes in Edmonton. Yes, given the economics here we should see 2 or 3 new office towers, 20 new condo towers...but if you were here 5 yrs ago and now look at the city....there have been MAJOR CHANGES<>

I also gotta agree with Cold here, too.

Edmonton's not a major corporate HQ powerhouse like Calgary is, and it's office vacancy rate has been historically so high (although declining nicely, I must add) that leasing rates are very low. So low, that they may not rise enough to warrant construction of any new office towers until at least after 2015 or even 2025.

I also have to add that even to me, it's amazing that Edmonton's got as many skyscrapers as it has today.

Montreal is growing faster than Calgary and Quebec the same rate as Alberta.
The GTA is growing faster than all four western PROVINCES combined.
In terms of population it is losing ground against Ont/Que.

When you say "rate", that implies a normalized measure like a percentage rate. The problem is, you are not comparing rates but rather absolute numbers.

Did I mention that students in Alberta also do better in math?

Alberta posts strong growth
http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050928/d050928a.htm

Probably because of soaring oil prices and employment in the oil patch, Alberta was the province with the fastest population growth between July 1st 2004 and July 1st 2005. By increasing at a rate of 1.62%, the population of Alberta grew by 52,000 to 3,256,800 on July 1st 2005.

During the year, Alberta received 17,400 international immigrants, a level not exceeded since 1993/94 (+18,200). Additionally, the province saw a substantial increase in its net interprovincial migration, which was up 6,000 from the previous year.

Among other provinces and territories which experienced growth rates above that of the country as a whole were British Columbia (+1.25%), Ontario and Nunavut (+1.08%). In contrast, small population losses were recorded in three provinces: Newfoundland and Labrador (-1,300), Saskatchewan (-200), and New Brunswick (-100).

---

Calgary to lead metropolitan economic growth in 2005
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/press/2005/Metro_Spring05_Natl.asp

OTTAWA, April 13, 2005 – Calgary will outpace all Canadian cities in economic growth by a wide margin in 2005, and western cities will boast four of the seven fastest growing economies this year, according to the Conference Board’s Metropolitan Outlook – Spring 2005.

“Surging investment in Alberta’s energy sector remains a boon for the economies of both Calgary and Edmonton,” said Mario Lefebvre, Director, Metropolitan Outlook Service. “This will lead to further employment gains in both cities, allowing them to keep on attracting migrants from other Canadian provinces.”

Calgary’s real gross domestic product (GDP) is forecast to expand by 4.6 per cent in 2005. In addition to strong energy and non-energy investment, continued healthy increases in population will allow retail sales to grow by more than seven per cent.

With growth of 6.2 per cent, Edmonton enjoyed one of the strongest economies in Canada last year. A still-healthy 2.9 per cent expansion is forecast for 2005, thanks to strong activity in the non-residential construction sector.

---

For information about how Alberta students outperform those of other provinces in math, visit:
http://www.pisa.gc.ca/pisa/brochure_e.shtml

"So low, that they may not rise enough to warrant construction of any new office towers until at least after 2015 or even 2025."


dude....we expect one to be started in 2-3yrs max...we have ~5% vacancy and almost nothing with large floor plates left. Also, more companies are looking downtown addresses and lease rates are going up about 3-5% a month i have been told.

"So low, that they may not rise enough to warrant construction of any new office towers until at least after 2015 or even 2025."


dude....we expect one to be started in 2-3yrs max...we have ~5% vacancy and almost nothing with large floor plates left. Also, more companies are looking downtown addresses and lease rates are going up about 3-5% a month i have been told.
@CanadianCentaur - like cold mentioned, rates have increased by $3-4 per square this past year alone and are anticipated to increase more next year.

In fact, if you read the latest office market reports, you'll notice that they talk about developers assembling land for new office towers. More specifically, there are about several sites where developers are preparing for new office developments.

Sorry, maybe I was getting a little too cynical for an Edmontonian. Regarding the chances for a new office tower, I do hope you guys are right.

I had forgotten that we were discussing in SSP of chances of a new office tower about 22 stories to go up (roughly Enbridge-sized). :bash:

procura, qualico, melcor, and a few others have bought prime tower land on jasper etc. to position themselves for towers.

I would be willing to be $100 we see marketing for a new 20-25 storey, 250,000sqft tower in 2006-07.

Yeah I think its coming soon, probably with the province pushing for it. Remember they have 250K of space in Capital Health building and are going to be kicked out in 2007. But then again the Devonian is going to be back on the market.

^do do do doooo....

When you say "rate", that implies a normalized measure like a percentage rate. The problem is, you are not comparing rates but rather absolute numbers.

Did I mention that students in Alberta also do better in math?

how dair yu i are a unevercetey geraguite !!!?!

I know that Alberta is growing more in % than any other province by a good chunk but it will take decades to make any significant change in the power base.

Just look at the stats for 2001-2005:
Alberta grew in % of national population from 9.9% to 10.1%...........0.2% increase.
Ontario grew from 38.4% to 38.9%..............................................0.5% increase.
Against Ontario Alberta is LOSING ground.
If you look at the West {BC,AB,SK,MB} compared to Ont/Que its still the same thing.
West grew from 29.9% to 30.0%...............insignificant 0.1% in 4 years.
Ont/Que grew from 62.2% to 62.4%............just 0.2% in 4 years but the real point is that the West LOST their % of the national population.
The WEST is making gains only from the Atlantic provinces with their zero growth rates.

^^^^ I was just pointing out that you had stated Alberta's growth rate was not higher whereas reality is different. Even using your numbers, it would be 0.2/9.9 > 0.5/38.4.

You're right - from an absolute numbers perspective, Alberta loses ground in the short-term, and for the greater rate to catch up, it would take many, many years.

Problem is, population is one piece of the puzzle. There are also things like debt per person and GDP per person.

http://www.alberta-canada.com/investLocate/economicPerformance/skilledWorkforce.cfm
Productivity
[GDP/Capita]
2004

Alberta $58,535
Ontario $41,767
Canada $40,484
Saskatchewan $40,659
Newfoundland & Labrador $37,839
British Columbia $37,293
Quebec $35,401
Manitoba $34,415
Nova Scotia $32,055
New Brunswick $31,117
Prince Edward Island $28,986 + 3 potatoes

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/041109/d041109b.htm
[1990 to 2003]
Through the 1990s and early 2000s, Alberta's gross domestic product (GDP) per capita accelerated away from the national average. Over the same period, GDP per capita among the remaining provinces began to converge, according to a new study.

Looking across the whole period, Alberta increased its GDP per capita from 117% of the national level to 140%.

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/chapterfiles/Budget%20Performance%20Index,%202002-pp20-24.pdf#

Debt as a percentage of GDP (2001/2 numbers):
Alberta (1.8)%
Ontario 25%

There is probably a MUCH greater different this year.

BTW - did you like Klein announcing yesterday a scholarship for non-Albertans going to any post-secondary (IE any in Canada)?
http://www.gov.ab.ca/home/index.cfm?page=1294

^
"it would be 0.2/9.9 > 0.5/38.4"................????????

Like I said AB grew in 4 years .2% of national pop from 9.9% to 10.1%
WESTERN Canada only grew by 0.1% due to growth in MB being below the national average and SK having no growth at all.

I agree that Alberta has a great future and has , by far, the highest per-capita GDP and standard of living but that won't result in any more seats in the commons as it does now. This is why the Liberals right off Alberta and it means little in the sceme of things. Just look at Calgary. Very wealthy, booming, and 4th largest metro but doesn't even have one seat of the governing party in the country and hasn't had for a decade.
Thus resulting in no cabinet ministers so in some ways Calgary is much worse off in Ottawa than many cities not even a fraction of its size.

BTW, this is a very interesting conversation but we are getting off track of this thread which is unfair to Edmontonians.
Any way of starting a new thread or transferring this page info on to the "Alberta............what to do with all that money" thread?
Is there a way of doing that?

"it would be 0.2/9.9 > 0.5/38.4"................????????

That's how you calculate a rate of growth. 0.2% growth divided by 9.9% of the population (Alberta) is greater than 0.5% growth divided by 38.4% of the Canadian population (Ontario).

Enough of the math lesson ...

... This is why the Liberals right off Alberta and it means little in the sceme of things. Just look at Calgary. Very wealthy, booming, and 4th largest metro but doesn't even have one seat of the governing party in the country and hasn't had for a decade.

We were not talking politics - rather, we were talking variables important to development. You brought up population & population growth rate (I had to explain the rate part to you), and I added variables such as an over-weight GDP contribution and per capita debt. Clearly, these additional variables do impact development [and don't forget that no debt allows for lower corporate tax, which also impacts the development arena].

Lets get back to *development* and leave the politics.