Now that the new timetable is in place, what do we all think about the changes? Is the timetable more efficient? Are slower services that are on time better than unreliable trains?

See the whinge thread or railpage. Things run on time but the new on time is the old late...

Now that the new timetable is in place, what do we all think about the changes? Is the timetable more efficient? Are slower services that are on time better than unreliable trains?

I use the Illawarra line and that still uses the old timetable, so I cannot comment on it much.

I do use the Western line between Central and Strathfield I'm happy with it so far. Trains are on time and the journey time between Strathfield and the city is pretty much the same as before. I've noticed as well the train travels at a more constant speed. However I'm disappointed with the lack of off peak services. I find myself waiting up to 15 mins just to get a train to Strathfield during the middle of the day :bash:

http://www.cityrail.info/aboutus/our_performance/summary_otr.jsp

According to that, our rail punctuality hasn't improved much.

:? Are we looking at the same page?

I'm looking at the July/Auguest Stat. Not the latest weekly vs monthly stat.

The new timetable only started in September. We'll have to wait till those stats are released before we can draw conclusions.

Are there any announcements when the Bondi Junction turnback will be completed?

The timetable is due for introduction in March if that's what you're getting at. Commissioning is currently set at the weekend of February 25/6. But that could change.

The track is laid in the new tunnel, ancillary works are taking place around it but most work has to do with widening the storage tunnels to allow stabling to take place.

why are trains so expensive in sydney compared to buses? will this change with ITS being introduced soon?

Busfares and Trainfares in Sydney are quite close to each other in cost.

The best example for me would be the trip to uni.
Hurstville to Central (single) $1.50 (Train)
Central to UNSW (single) $1.30 (Bus)

The 20c difference is primarily due to the lesser distance travelled by the bus.

Private bus companies are SO expensive!

Private bus companies are SO expensive!


You're not wrong there, It costs me $2.50 to travel 3km to the Local shopping centre on Busways and $5.00 to get to the nearest station. It's a fucking rip off but it's because the majority of the travellers on Busways are going to and from school.

If you buy T10's etc. for the STA it is cheaper than private buses. But if you pay single fares everytime and travel the same amount of sections, it would cost the same on the STA or a private bus.

http://www.cityrail.info/aboutus/our_performance/summary_otr.jsp

According to that, our rail punctuality hasn't improved much.

On time running is 93.7 %, which is an improvement, comapred to recent times. Even if they defined ontime running as within four mins (as before), id be less than 93.7, but still an improvement from before.

I notice when on the trains between Central and Strathfield that the trains do come on time, if not a minute or two early.

The Illawarra line is now the least reliable line as they still on the old timetable with 89 % of services on time. I bet todays figure for the line will be low with the usual services running late (they just cannot get them on time ie 1102 Hurstville-Bondi) and several cancellations this afternoon ie 1639 Central-Hurstville, the 1633 Central - Waterfall delayed by 15 mins and the 1650 Port Kembla Service departing from the intercity paltforms instead of platform 25.

I cannot wait for the new timetable for the line.

On time running is 93.7 %, which is an improvement, comapred to recent times. Even if they defined ontime running as within four mins (as before), id be less than 93.7, but still an improvement from before.

I notice when on the trains between Central and Strathfield that the trains do come on time, if not a minute or two early.

The Illawarra line is now the least reliable line as they still on the old timetable with 89 % of services on time. I bet todays figure for the line will be low with the usual services running late (they just cannot get them on time ie 1102 Hurstville-Bondi) and several cancellations this afternoon ie 1639 Central-Hurstville, the 1633 Central - Waterfall delayed by 15 mins and the 1650 Port Kembla Service departing from the intercity paltforms instead of platform 25.

I cannot wait for the new timetable for the line.

It probably won't mean much of a change - they haven't done the Cronulla duplication yet!

It probably won't mean much of a change - they haven't done the Cronulla duplication yet!

They are still consulting the public on this.

still consulting the public? a month shutdown for almost the whole of May 2007 is already scheduled to do "real" work on the thing...

The March 2006 Sector 1 (Eastern Suburbs & Illawarra, South Coast Line) timetable is now online

http://www.cityrail.info/news/timetable2006.jsp#view

you'll see a few extra peak services (now 15/16 per hour) and more interurbans running to Bondi Junction. Could have done with an extended PM peak though...

why cant all the lines be like the eastern suburbs

Well that frequency is achieved between Hurstville and Bondi Junction, but the determinant is density mostly.

according to the leader, only 1 more train will run per hour when the bondi junction turnback is done, how crap.

Thats correct. the 7:02am from Waterfall will be the extra service.

Overall, it's a good timetable and I'm happy with it. It's good that current frequencies will be retained. Just a bit of swapping around of the existing pattern.

South Coast commuters are big winners, with more services between Sydney and Kiama and those between Thirroul and Helensburgh getting direct services to and from Bondi Junction during peak periods, with stops at suburban stations.

the Illawarra line will get their new timetable on May 28, with amendments to services on other lines as well. :)

North Shore line services that terminate at North Sydney will be extended to stations such as Lindfield due to the North Sydney Station upgrade.

To be honest the NSW government really has to drop this old 'English mainline' kind of approach to our huge(but far from complete)city wide rail system.

Why not have a metro style timetable.Just run trains every 5 mins during peak times and 10 mins in other times.

The timetable at the station should read like this...

MON - FRI PEAK PERIODS

5am-7am/4pm-7pm Trains run
every 5mins

MON/FRI NON PEAK.WEEKENDS,
PUBLIC HOLIDAYS

Trains run every 10 mins


Simple!!!!!

To be honest the NSW government really has to drop this old 'English mainline' kind of approach to our huge(but far from complete)city wide rail system.

Why not have a metro style timetable.Just run trains every 5 mins during peak times and 10 mins in other times.

The timetable at the station should read like this...

MON - FRI PEAK PERIODS

5am-7am/4pm-7pm Trains run
every 5mins

MON/FRI NON PEAK.WEEKENDS,
PUBLIC HOLIDAYS

Trains run every 10 mins


Simple!!!!!

The Illawarra line will have trains arriving at Central every 4 mins under the new timetable in the morning peak :)

But overall they do stick to your suggested frequencies on that line, except at weekends when it's every 15 minutes (It was 10 mins before that shoddy timetable in 2004).

the Illawarra line will get their new timetable on May 28

Bondi Junction Turnback commissioning is this weekend. It's been rather delayed...

To be honest the NSW government really has to drop this old 'English mainline' kind of approach to our huge(but far from complete)city wide rail system.

Why not have a metro style timetable.Just run trains every 5 mins during peak times and 10 mins in other times.



how would that be possible without massive expenditure into the existing system, let alone any expansions?


The timetable at the station should read like this...

MON - FRI PEAK PERIODS

5am-7am/4pm-7pm Trains run
every 5mins

MON/FRI NON PEAK.WEEKENDS,
PUBLIC HOLIDAYS

Trains run every 10 mins


Simple!!!!!

here is a sample of a hypothetical western line timetable running at absolutely maximum capacity. It is assuming that the richmond line and the stations Blacktown - Westmead are serviced by the cumberland line. It still doesnt reach a train every 5min except at major stations because of constraints.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8571/blm0ah.th.gif (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blm0ah.gif)

Secondly, that timetable takes up 1/4 of the entire cityrail fleet for about 1/8th of the total line useage. That means that the entire cityrail fleet would be needed to double, before you could look at decent frequencies like that, as well as signalling upgrades at core junctions such as Granville, Illawarra Junction, Parramatta & Penrith.

This does not even take into account freight rail access - (although being peak time it is a moot point) - and freight requires large access times to be able to run accross the system.

you also have the problem of shortage of drivers and signallers. It is a cascade effect. And the shortage is Australia wide.

Just like Perth, a train every 10-15 mins. And if they simplified the stopping pattern some more it would make the cattle easier to load and unload.

you also have the problem of shortage of drivers and signallers. It is a cascade effect. And the shortage is Australia wide.

Maybe if they got rid of guards people would be more inclined to become drivers; as I understand it, the pay differential isn't that much and being a guard looks like a far easier job. Could someone explain to me why we need a guard on every single train, yet systems with no guards, such as the MTR in Hong Kong, seem to run far more efficiently without them? Is it a union thing? I expect they're also behind the ridiculously long time it takes to become a driver, too...

The pay difference is potentially significant when you consider a guard can be trained in four weeks and thus there is little opportunity for overtime pay for a guard.

Guards exist still mainly for three practical reasons:
(1) The rear half of an 8 car train cannot access the driver in case of emergency
(2) Not all platforms are staffed so not at all locations can a right of way be given by station staff
(3) The expense of installing CCTV camera for drivers to be able to see down the platform. Some platforms are so curved 8 car V-sets travel with a guards repeater as well as a guard!

And one, bigger, un-practical reason:
(1) the RBTU

You want to get rid of guards? You gotta be prepared to weather a storm as big as that to get rid of bus conductors. Can Sydney run without trains for weeks?

The time to trains a driver is not that long. The 3 year figure or whatever it is is for a CityRail driver traineeship which means you start as station staff, then go off to a signal box, then become a guard and lastly a driver. A lot of those experiences are important for would-be drivers.

Oh well, I guess in 300 years time when Sydney gets a proper metro (with straight platforms and no doors between carriages) my guard-less train dream can finally become a reality. Hey, maybe we can even do without drivers by then!

Just to get back on topic... it's quite disappointing to see that none of the evening trains that start at North Sydney will be starting further up the Shore. I think it might be time to find a new job that doesn't involve train travel...