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Nice job !

Thanks a lot Kuvacci :)

Thessaloniki used to llok very nice but during the 50s 60s and 70s a lot of its beatiful buildings have been demolished in order to build high rise flats to accomodate the rural population and the refugees from Asia Minor that flocked into the city.....this has been the case with Athens as well....

OUr cities could have been so much nicer....

I hate us for what we did to our cities....

Anyway, in my opinion Greek cities are still quite charming and they are getting better....

Indeed exceptionally beautiful, great pictures Kuvvaci. Shame it was burnt.

Very cool pics :okay: Thanks for posting them here.

There were hardly any greeks in salonika back then.

^^
Go back to whatever hole you climbed out of you worthless trole!

Thessaloniki has always been Greek. Hence the name "Thessaloniki" which is Greek. Do you know how many quotes call Athenians, Spartans, Greeks of Asia minor as seprate people than regular Greeks. There are tons, so your quote means nothing.

There are no "Macedonians" and Macedonia is Greek. Your arguments are completly ridiculous, and before you go keep on bashing Greece the only reason your country is still alive today is because of all the Aid Greece gives to it. It probably wont last another 15 years anyways.

Also you need to learn to analyze bias. I cannot believe you actually used a qutoe from Demosthenes to back up your argument. Anybody who knows anything about Ancient Macedonia knows that he was Philips greatest enemy, and would constantly refer to the Macedonians as "not Greek" because he hated Philip. Everybody did that. There were times where Athenians called Spartans not Greek, etc..............

There were hardly any greeks in salonika back then.

stop trolling in this Forum......
you know skopjane my family tree goes back more then 400 years in that region.... and all my ancestors where greeks....
you see I had relatives (my granny) that lived in that time refered to your kind as Bulgarians (or slavs) ... I wonder why....ah....yes know ...I now because you are slavs maybe??

your guys are good at twisting history, heck thats one thing greeks are SUPER experts at. Cya later-from 'trole' ;)

^^
Go back to whatever hole you climbed out of you worthless trole!

Thessaloniki has always been Greek. Hence the name "Thessaloniki" which is Greek. Do you know how many quotes call Athenians, Spartans, Greeks of Asia minor as seprate people than regular Greeks. There are tons, so your quote means nothing.

There are no "Macedonians" and Macedonia is Greek. Your arguments are completly ridiculous, and before you go keep on bashing Greece the only reason your country is still alive today is because of all the Aid Greece gives to it. It probably wont last another 15 years anyways.


Zorba, leave him alone....don't stress over it...he is in denial. When people are insecure of their own history that they have to hijack other cultures' history, then there is a severe case of mental problems that need to be addressed.

One only needs to look in the Holy Bible where there is a whole section called Thessalonians. Back then, GreatMakedonvski's people were living in caves and discovering fire.....

Go to the town of Florina... listen to the language people wisper between themselves. Its not bulgarian and its certainly not greek... why do they WISPER in that language? Your government knows very well why.

They speak Greek, some of the older ones speak Bulgarian (which they call "Slavika"), which is what you speak although you love to call it sometting else. Go ask them what they are though, and except for those rainbow fags they will reply Greek.


Funny enough the city is changed from Thessaloniki to Florina now.


Thessaloniki back then was a multi-cultuaral city. Greeks, Jews (almost half the cities population), Turks, Albanians, Slavs etc

The ones hurt the most from the fire were the Jews. Not a suprise you people claim that it was some elaborate scheem to wipe out "Macedonians", which is just as rediculous as the rest of your crap. Because as I said, Jews were the hardest hit by the fire, as well as all the others living in Thessaloniki.


I got one for you, go back and read the original scrolls/scripts of Ancient Macedonia. And you tell me what language was spoken by Alexandros and his people?


- http://www.saloniki.org/images/catalog/history/hellenic_macedonia.gif -

"Both Herodotus and Thucydides describe the Macedonians as foreigners, a distinct people living outside of the frontiers of the Greek city-states" – Eugene Borza, In the Shadow of Olympus p. 96


Herodotus confirms that the Macedonians were people of Greek origin (Histories of Herodotus Book 5, paragraph 22.1)

"Now that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know and will prove it in the later part of my history.That they are so has been already adjudged by those who manage the Pan-Hellenic contest at Olympia. "


Thoukididis also verifies that the Macedonian kings' origin was from the Greek town of Argos (Book 2, 99.3):

"The country on the sea coast, now called Macedonia, was first acquired by Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his ancestors, originally Temenids from Argos."


Aristotelis, the teacher of Alexander the Great says about the rivers in Macedonia (Meteorologika, Book I, Par. 13):


"Of the rivers in the Greek world, the Achelous flows from Pindus, the Inachus from the same mountain; the Strymon, the Nestus, and the Hebrus all three from Scombrus; many rivers, too, flow from Rhodope."


And from Flavious Josephus (11.8.5) we have the following incident where Alexander clearly considers himself a Greek:

"And when the book of Daniel was showed to him (Alexander the Great) wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended" [/QUOTE]


In Herodotus (Book 9, paragraph 45.2) Alexander I , king of Macedonia says:

"... I myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery ..."

http://www.saloniki.org/images/catalog/history/hellenic_macedonia.gif

@GreatSkopjian: Your signature proves notinhg. Here are various quotes in which many Greek tribes such as the Athenians, Spartans, Greeks of Asia Minor were referd to as different from Greeks. Thus completly defeating your theory.

Here are ancient quotes that put other obvious Greek people seperate from the whole...

Athenians:

"When the estrangement which had arisen between the Athenians and the Hellenes became noised abroad, there came to Athens ambassadors from the Persians and from the Hellenes. [Diodoros of Sicily 11.28.1]
"...the Hellenes gathered in congress decreed to make common cause with the Athenians and advanced to Plataia in a body..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.29.1]

"He soothed the Athenians' pride by promising them... that the Hellenes would accept their leadership..." [Plutarch, Themistokles 7]

"...the Athenians, because of their policy of occupying with colonists the lands of those whom they subdued, had a bad reputation with the Hellenes;..." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.23.4]

"And we decided upon a twofold revolt, from the Hellenes and the Athenians, not to aid the latter in harming the former... " [Thukydides, 3.13; Oration of the Mytilenaians]

"When the Athenians attacked the Hellenes, they, the Plataians... Atticized. [Thukydides, 3.62; Theban Accusations]

"The Athenians... by this denerous act they recovered the goodwill of the Hellenes and made their own leadership more secure." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.29.8]

"And this was the first naval victory that the city [Athens] had against the Hellenes, after the destruction." [Plutarch, Phokion 6]


Spartans/Lakedaimonians:

"...the Lakedaimonians, fearful lest Themistokles should devise some great evil against them and the Hellenes, honoured him with double the numbers of gifts..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.27.3]

"In this year [475 BCE] the Lakedaimonians... were resentful; consequently they were incensed at the Hellenes who had fallen away from them and continued to threaten them with the appropriate punishment." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.50.1]

"In a single battle the Peloponnesians and their allies may be able to defy all the Hellenes, but they can not carry a whole war..." [Thukydides 1.141; Oration of Pericles]

"When the Eleians not only paid no heed to them [the Lakedaimonians] but even accused them besides of enslaving the Hellenes, they dispatched Pausanias, the other of the two kings, against them with 4,000 soldiers." [Diodoros of Sicily 14.17.6]

"But Pausanias, the king of the Lakedaimonians, being jealous of Lysandros and observing that Sparta was in ill repute among the Hellenes, marched forth with a strong army and on his arrival in Athens brought about a reconciliation between the men of the city and the exiles. [Diodoros of Sicily 14.33.6]

"He says... the Lakedaimonians... gave to the Hellenes to taste the sweet drink of freedom..." [Plutarch, Lysandros 13]

"Agesilaos was accused... that he exposed the city [Sparta] as an accomplice in the crimes against the Hellenes." [Plutarch, Agesilaos 26]

"...the Lakedaimonians, who were hard put to it by the double war, that against the Hellenes and that against the Persians, dispatched their admiral Antalkidas to Artaxerxes to treat for peace." [Diodoros of Sicily 14.110.2]

"The Lakedaimonians... used their allies roughly and harshly, stirring up, besides, unjust and insolent wars against the Hellenes,..." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.1.3]

"At this time the kings of the Lakedaimonians were at variance with each other on matters of policy. Agesipolis, who was a peaceful and just man and, furthermore, excelled in wisdom, declared that they should abide by their oaths and not enslave the Hellenes contrary to the common agreements." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.16.4]

"Thus, the Hellenes were wondering what the state of the Lakedaimonian army would be had it been commanded by Agesilaos or... the old Leonidas." [Plutarch, Agis 14]

"Even though the Lakedaimonians had combated the Hellenes many times only one of their kings had ever died in action..." [Plutarch, Agis 21]



Greeks of Asia Minor, the Aegean islands, Krete, Cyprus, Central Greece, the Ionian Sea and the West:

"The Athenians... reasoned that, if the Ionians were given new homes by the Hellenes acting in common they would no longer look upon Athens as their mother-city." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.37.3]

"...and as for the Hellenes, they were emboldened by the promise of the Ionians, and... came down eagerly in a body from Salamis to the shore in preparation for the sea- battle." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.17.4]

"Now the Samians and Milesians had decided unanimously beforehand to support the Hellenes..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.36.2]

"...although the Ionians thought that the Hellenes would be encouraged, the result was the very opposite." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.36.2]

"When the Samians and Milesians put in their appearance, the Hellenes plucked up courage,... and Aiolians participated in the battle,..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.36.4-5]

"When the Aiolians and Ionians had heard these promises, they resolved to take the advice of the Hellenes..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.37.2]

"The Kretans, when the Hellenes sent to ask aid from them... acted as follows..." [Herodotos 7.169]

"The King [of Persia], now that his difference with the Hellenes was settled, made ready his armament for the war against Cyprus. For Evagoras had got possession of almost the whole of Cyprus and gathered strong armaments, because [king] Artaxerxes was distracted by the war against the Hellenes." [Diodoros of Sicily 14.110.5]

"The Lokrians... when they learned that Leonidas had arrived at Thermopylai, changed their minds and went over to the Hellenes." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.4.6]

"Now the Phokians had chosen the cause of the Hellenes, but seeing that they were unable to offer resistance... fled for safety to the rugged regions about Mount Parnassos." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.14.1]

"The Thebans, anticipating the arrival of a large army from Hellas to aid the Lakedaimonians [controlling the citadel of Thebes, the Kadmeia], dispatched envoys to Athens to remind them... and to request them to come with all their forces and assist them in reducing the Kadmeia before the arrival of the Lakedaimonians." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.25.4]

"All the Hellenes gladly received the proposal [of Artaxerxes, the Persian King], and all the cities agreed to a general peace except Thebes; for the Thebans alone, being engaged in bringing Boiotia under a single confederacy, were not admitted by the Hellenes because of the general determination to have the oaths and treaties made city by city." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.50.4]

"Since the Lakedaimonians made peace with all the Hellenes, they were in war only with the Thebans..." [Plutarch, Pelopidas 20]

"... the recorders of the Amphictyons [the hieromnemones] brought charges against the Phokians and... if they did not obey, they should incur the common hatred of the Hellenes." [Diodoros of Sicily 16.23.3]

"And Gelon replied with vehemence: `Hellenes,... you exhort me to join in league with you against the barbarian...' [Herodotos, 7.157]

"Gelon [the ruler of the Greek city of Syrakousai]... was making ready... to join the Hellenes in the war against the Persians." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.26.4]

"This is how they (the Kerkyraians) eluded the reproaches of the Hellenes. [Herodotos, 7.168]


Hellas 1-0 Skopjia :banana: :banana:

*Quotes from Chicagogeorge

If you guys are happy to debate the 'macedonian issue' with me on this forum then ill continue!? .. if not, i dont wanna be accused of causing problems again.

Ive talked enough in previous threads about ancient history... by the way, ill come back with my quotes of proof that support the none-greeknes of ancient macedonians, but ill leave that for tommorow. For now i want to reply to this:

Quote Christos7: They speak Greek, some of the older ones speak Bulgarian (which they call "Slavika"), which is what you speak although you love to call it sometting else. Go ask them what they are though, and except for those rainbow fags they will reply Greek.

Funny enough the city is changed from Thessaloniki to Florina now.
-------------------------------------------------------------

First of All, i mentioned Florina, because it has an 80% ethnic macedonian ("slav"macedonian) population. Salonika only has about 10% nowdays since you kicked them out and replaced them with people from asia minor, who ironically think they have more in common with alexander the great! hahaha!

Anyways.. back to Florina.. you said the older ones speak "bulgarian" or "slavic" and apparently they call it "slavika"???? load of shit!

The older ones speak what is INTERNATIONALLY recognised as the MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE. Why do the younger ones speak greek?? hehe, id have to write for ten hours to explain to you everything-which by the way you should know, as to why they speak greek. BECAUSE, they have to speak greek! they learn greek from the first grade! they are denyed the right to speak their native macedonian language! thats why i said they WISPER this language.

If any of you dont believe me... go to Florina, go to the local market and say 'kako si' to a shop keeper... most will reply in a language you wont understand (macedonian).
Ask them what is their ethnic nationality, they will hesitate.. they will be scared to admit... because incase your from the greek authorities. If they assume your one of them they will say that they are a 'makedonec' or 'makedonka'. Go to Florina.. then come back on this forum and tell me what you witnessed, any of you.. I DARE YOU!

as for the rainbow party... it scares you that there exists a macedonian minority which claims to be of none-greek origin inside greece, thats what scares you.. thats why you call them fags.

Skopian, get your Bulgarian speaking butt the hell out of here.

Damn Skopians.

This thread is not about Paeonia and Shkupi so oust.

Hellas=Makedonia
Shkupi=Paeonia

Go it?

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/c3122a.jpg
Hamidye Boulevard in Thessaloniki
Early 20th century picture postcard with Hamidye Boulevard in Thessaloniki, 1890-1917, Thessaloniki, G. Megas archive.

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/d39j.jpg
Welcoming the Greek army at Thessaloniki station
Picture postcard with the occupation of Thessaloniki railway station in order to welcome the Greek army, 1912, Thessaloniki, G. Megas archive.

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/d54c.jpg
Venizelou Avenue and Eleftherias Square
Early 20th century picture postcard with Venizelou Avenue and Eleftherias Square, 1800-1917, Thessaloniki, Th. Tsinopoulos archive.

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/d55a.jpg
Thessaloniki, Egnatia Avenue and the Kamara
Picture postcard of the first half of the 20th century with Egnatia Avenue and the Kamara in Thessaloniki, 1700-1994, Thessaloniki, G. Megas archive.

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/d5ac.jpg
The 'Cafe Crystal' in Thessaloniki
Picture postcard of about 1900 with 'Cafe Crystal' in Thessaloniki, 1850-1910, Thessaloniki, G. Megas archive.

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/d5bd.jpg
The arrival of George I in Thessaloniki
Picture postcard with the arrival of King George I in Thessaloniki, 1912, Thessaloniki, G. Megas archive.

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/d5bc.jpg
The entry of the Greek army into Thessaloniki
Picture postcard with the entry of the Greek army into Thessaloniki on 27-10-1912, 1912, Thessaloniki, G. Megas archive.

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/d5bk.jpg
Corps of Cretan gendarmes in Thessaloniki
Picture postcard with a corps of Cretan gendarmes in Thessaloniki, 1912-1913, Thessaloniki, G. Megas archive.

First of All, i mentioned Florina, because it has an 80% ethnic macedonian ("slav"macedonian) population.

I don't disagree. There are a minority in this area who are of Slavic origin. I have no problem admitting it...


Salonika only has about 10% nowdays since you kicked them out and replaced them with people from asia minor, who ironically think they have more in common with alexander the great! hahaha!

Most were dispered in population exchanges with Bulgaria (suprise, suprise) most of which were voluntary exchanges. Others fled the area because of hardships. This is the Balkans. Same happened to Greeks in Bulgaria and Greeks in Turkey, and visaversa. Thats why there are very little people of Slavic origin left. Any who stayed in Greece identified themselves as Greeks. That was the whole point of the population exchanges.


Anyways.. back to Florina.. you said the older ones speak "bulgarian" or "slavic" and apparently they call it "slavika"???? load of shit!

The only one speaking shit is you.

GO TO FLORINA AND ASK THEM. I have two good friends, one from Kastoria and the other from Florina. Both have said the same thing. As much as you would hate to admit it, that Slavic minority were Hellenized long ago and are now proud Greeks in nationality. Go ask them yourself instead of reading hours of propaganda on the net.


The older ones speak what is INTERNATIONALLY recognised as the MACEDONIAN LANGUAGE.

It may very well be internationaly recognised, but you know, I know, and anybody else who is familiar with it knows it's a form of Bulgarian and is a Slavic language. You can call it whatever you like until you are blue in the face, there is no Macedonian language.


Why do the younger ones speak greek?? hehe, id have to write for ten hours to explain to you everything-which by the way you should know, as to why they speak greek. BECAUSE, they have to speak greek! they learn greek from the first grade! they are denyed the right to speak their native macedonian language! thats why i said they WISPER this language.


Good. This is Greece. They should be speaking Greek. They can't be speaking Macedonian, there is no such language.



If any of you dont believe me... go to Florina, go to the local market and say 'kako si' to a shop keeper... most will reply in a language you wont understand (macedonian).
Ask them what is their ethnic nationality, they will hesitate.. they will be scared to admit... because incase your from the greek authorities. If they assume your one of them they will say that they are a 'makedonec' or 'makedonka'. Go to Florina.. then come back on this forum and tell me what you witnessed, any of you.. I DARE YOU!

:lol: Propaganda at it's best.....

As I already said, I have two close friends from Macedonia. I know alot about it. Incidently, one of them is actually most likely Slavic in origin but Greek in nationality. No matter how much propaganda they pump into your head, no matter how much internet education you get from your little sites, you have no clue about the actual ongoings. If you told my friend, or any of his family that they were not Greek, they would probably beat you to within an inch of your life. :) And I do plan to visit Florina, and Kastoria and Thessaloniki and many places in Macedonia. I plan to stay with my friends families. I'll let you know how it goes.

PS I wont need a passport to enter the REAL Makedonia. :D


as for the rainbow party... it scares you that there exists a macedonian minority which claims to be of none-greek origin inside greece, thats what scares you.. thats why you call them fags.

Doesn't scare me at all. It pisses me off, just like the likes of you do, falsifying history and speaking out of your asses. But in all honesty, nobody gives two shits about them. And doesn't there very presence comepltely contradict your whole "Greek authorites scaring/stoping Macedonians" bullcrap? :cheers:


btw, you know what I love? In 1996, in the parliament elections in Greece the political party of the people who claim to be a "Macedonian minority" gained 3.485 votes (official result, Greece a EU member). In the 2000 parliament elections they didn't take up part at all.

So much for all the nonsense.... you can take all your propaganda, the rainbow boys, and have yourself a nice little gay party.

IIn 1996, in the parliament elections in Greece the political party of the people who claim to be a "Macedonian minority" gained 3.485 votes (official result, Greece a EU member). In the 2000 parliament elections they didn't take up part at all.


What's funny is that most of those votes came from Athens and were probably the result of older voters confusing them for a "green party". :hahaha: :hahaha:

The fact is there is no support for this meaningless organization which has been unable to gain party status in free and open elections.

It's all really good for a laugh. Except that GreatSkopian and co believe this 'rainbow' to be something special. So in reality it's about 3,485 times more pathetic than funny.