Hello Israeli friends! :hi:

I was just doing a little bit of research on Ladino, the Jewish-Spanish hybrid, and this got me interested in figuring out how long both of these (Ladino and Yiddish) have left to live.

Ladino is of course interesting for many linguists because it maintaining medieval Spanish grammar and pronunciation (because of when the Jews were expelled from Spain :( ). And Yiddish has enriched the lexicon of New York English, where many Eastern European Jews settled. I as a Hispanic Catholic say "schlep my books" "you've got some shmutz on your cheek" and "stop being such a putz."

Obviously, modern Hebrew is the version of Hebrew official in Israel, but I was wondering about the presence of Ladino and Yiddish in Israel today.

Thanks!

yiddish and ladino are very different.
Ladino is much older and evolved much slower. It is still taught in one or two schools in jerusalem and a very tiny community still speaks ladino. There are 2 newspapers and
radio shows in Ladino. Most noted is Ladino music, still sung in synagogues. A lot of the language was lost over centuries, but books in Ladino + small communities remain, but you cant call it a living language.

Yiddish on the other hand evolved out of having to speak in Eastern Europe, and its a really unique language because it was made as simplified as possible so that it could be wide spoken, first by german-polish jews and later also in russia. It is still widely spoken by many, and has had a revival over the past few years as our generation understands our grandparents generation will be the last if we dont keep learning it so many do. Of course it nearly was lost when 6 million jews were killed in the holocaust, the main bulk of Yiddish speakers.
Its nice to speak in Yiddish when around you most people dont understand it :) maybe thats why Stalin outlawed it in the USSR. \
But it still is evolving.

One example is the American Yiddish (much more expressions, almost over-doing it
with a clear fettish for "sh" like shmooz, shlep, shiksa, shmuk, smutz, goal shmoal etc..
you almost get certain variations of yiddish, like the "lach" enders - kinderlach, beigalach, mamalech.. etc but the nice thing everyone understands everyone no matter how you speak yiddish. Legend goes it evolved so much germans thought jews were speaking german, dutch thought it was dutch, polish thought it was polish etc, but couldnt understand a word because even the syntax had been altered into a unique language over time.

there are many websites dealing with both ladino and yiddish.
Spanish are actually rediscovering ladino as it has many old spanish words and syntax lost over the 500 years so they have programs to study and save ladino
Yiddish is recognized as sort of a european heritage, and I know many non jews for example in east europe used to speak yiddish so as not to be understood by the police etc. Also in a twist of fait, even German linguists of are today learning Yiddish, because the development of German in medieval versions is like Ladino and Spanish - found only in Yiddish..

Both languages are of course in decline, modern hebrew has encorporated lots of words from yidish (like american english) but only as single words, mostly quaint and funny like shlep etc..

Yiddish has another advantage: many religous orthodox communities preffer speaking yiddish in israel as their language. Its funny but they use hebrew letters to wtite in yiddish so for the near future at least it looks like yiddish is going to still be around for some time, at least in those communities.

The history and development of Yiddish:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/yiddish.html

But hebrew letters were always used in yidish, this is an interesting fact too.

Some Yiddish words:
(and did I mention its a built-in funny and neurotic language?)

Voden ? = What else would you expect ?
Shmutz = dirt
Kishkes = guts, intestines
Ukh un vey = Tough luck, too bad
Tokhis oyfin tish = Put up or shut up
Shvayg = Shut up
Sha shtil, shush = Be quiet
Yenna veld = In the next world
Oy gevald ! = Oh, No !
Nu ? = So? Well ? (Nu! = come on!) (Nu shoin = oh well, nevermind)
Nisht geferlich = I've seen worse
Nebech = Unfortunate person, good for nothing
Loch in kop = Like a hole in the head
Ke nignehore (ke nayne hore)= Not tempt the evil eye,
Goot gezugt = Well said
Gevald = Help
Gay red tsu der vant = Go talk to the wall
Ek velt = who knows, The boondocks
Fartik = That's final !
Shmek = smell
Shmuk (shmok) = idiot, lame
Shvitz = steam bath
Shnapps = booze
Alivay = It should only happen, I wish..
Abi gezunt = As long as you are healthy
Geld = Money
Glitch = a minor malfunction
Hameshe Kurve = home type whore
Gatkes = long underwear
Cokamammie (kakamayka) = fake, outrageous, ridiculous
Metzia = a bargain, prize package
Pushke = charity box
Shmontzes = gadgets
Bobe mayses = old wives tale, nonsense story
Tsatske = gadget, knickknack, messy woman
Pupik = belly button
Shmekel = a small penis
Bopkis = something of little or no value
Chazeray = garbage, junk
Dreck = crap
Ut azoy = Just like that
Tsedreyt in kop = Disoriented (in the head)
Gerativet = Saved
Shoyn tsayt = It's about time
Vey is mire, oy vey = Agony, distress, misery, pain
Oyf tsleuchis = Wouldn't you know it, unfortunately
Oy ! = Expression of dismay, pain, grief.
Nisht ahir un nish aher = Neither here nor there, in limbo
Nechtiger tog = An impossible occurrence
Moyshe kapoyer = All mixed up
Shitarayn = pour it in into a bowl
Shmate = rag
Shprits = spray
Lomir geyn = Let me go
In mitndrinen = Right in the middle of everything
Halt din zoken = Hold your socks
Gornish helfn = Beyond help
Genug shoyn = Enough already
Epes = Something, somewhat
Emmes = The truth
Gey gezunterheyt = Go in good health
Azoy geyt dos = That's how it goes
Ale montik un donershtik = Every Monday and Thursday, every time you turn around
Gornisht = Nothing
Megila = long drawn out story
Nosheray = snacks, junk food
Mish Mash = Combination, mess, hodgepodge

But hebrew letters were always used in yidish, this is an interesting fact too.

Ladino as well traditionally, but I think some point in the last century or the one previous, there was a shift to use the latin alphabet.

shohad the religious used hebrew letters, or even rashi, the secular german jews wrote yiddish in latin letters..

oh and how can you forget the famed yiddish spicy curses:
Kush meer in toches, farshtinkener.. (American Yiddish: Kiss mein tuches)
(kiss my behind, you rotten person..)
:)

My roomate told me about one Yiddish curse that translated as follows.

"May you be like a chandelier, hanging by day and burning by night."

:rofl:

A Selection of Curses
from Nahum Stutchkoff's Thesaurus of the Yiddish Language

Ale tsores vos ikh hob oyf mayn hartsn, zoln oysgeyn tsu zayn kop.
All problems I have in my heart, should go to his head.

Zol es im onkumn vos ikh vintsh im (khotsh a helft, khotsh halb, khotsh a tsent kheylik).
Let what I wish on him come true (most, even half, even just 10%).

Eyn imglik iz far im veynik.
One misfortune is too few for him.

Finstere leyd zol nor di mama oyf im zen.
Black sorrow is all that his mother should see of him.

Khasene hobn zol er mit di malekh hamoves tokhter.
He should marry the daughter of the Angel of Death.

Shteyner zol zi hobn, nit kayn kinder.
She should have stones and not children.

Azoy fil ritzinoyl zol er oystrinkn.
He should drink too much castor oil.

Oyskrenkn zol er dus mame’s milakh.
He should get so sick as to cough up his mother’s milk.

Oyf doktoyrim zol er dos avekgebn.
He should give it all away to doctors.

Zol er krenken un gedenken.
Let him suffer and remember.

Zalts im in di oygen, feffer im in di noz.
Throw salt in his eyes, pepper in his nose.

Shteyner af zayne beyner.
Stones on his bones.

A kramp (a kram, a kortsh) im in layb (in boyakh, in di kishkes, in di gederem, in di finger).
A cramp in his body (in his stomach, in his guts, in his bowels, in his fingers and toes).

Trinkn zoln im piavkes.
Leeches should drink him dry.

Lakhn zol er mit yashtherkes.
He should laugh with lizards.

Meshuga zol er vern un arumloyfn (iber di gasn).
He should go nuts and run around (through the streets).

A meshugener zol men oyshraybn, un im araynshraybn.
They should free a madman, and lock him up.

A hiltsener tsung zol er bakumn.
He should grow a wooden tongue.

Krugn zol er di (town name here) brokh.
He should get the (town name here) hernia.

Gut zol oyf im onshikn fin di tsen makes di beste.
God should visit upon him the best of the Ten Plagues.

Fransn zol esn zayn layb.
Venereal disease should consume his body.

Farshporn zol er oyf(tsu)shteyn?
Why bother getting up alive?

A kleyn kind zol nokh im heysn.
A young child should be named after him.

Vi tsu derleb ikh im shoyn tsu bagrobn.
I should outlive him long enough to bury him.

Er zol altsting zen, un nit hobn farvos (mit vos) tsu koyfn.
He should see everything, but have no reason (with what) to buy it.

Got zol im bentshn mit dray mentshn: eyner zol im haltn, der tsveyter zol im shpaltn un der driter zol im ba’haltn.
God should bless him with three people: one should grab him, the second should stab him and the third should hide him.

Vifil yor er iz gegangn oyf di fis zol er geyn af di hent un di iberike zol er zikh sharn oyf di hintn.
As many years as he’s walked on his feet, let him walk on his hands, and for the rest of the time he should crawl along on his ass.

Tsen shifn mit gold zol er farmorgn, un dos gantse gelt zol er farkrenkn.
Ten ships of gold should be his and the money should only make him sick.

A groys gesheft zol er hobn mit shroyre: vus er hot, zol men bay im nit fregn, un vos men fregt zol er nisht hobn.
He should have a large store, and whatever people ask for he shouldn’t have, and what he does have shouldn’t be requested.

Hindert hayzer zol er hobn, in yeder hoyz a hindert tsimern, in yeder tsimer tsvonsik betn un kadukhes zol im varfn fin eyn bet in der tsveyter.
A hundred houses shall he have, in every house a hundred rooms and in every room twenty beds, and a delirious fever should drive him from bed to bed.

Ale tseyn zoln bay im aroysfaln, not eyner zol im blaybn oyf tsonveytung.
All his teeth should fall out except one to make him suffer.

In di zumerdike teg zol er zitsn shive, un in di vinterdike nekht zikh raysn af di tseyn.
On summer days he should mourn, and on wintry nights, he should torture himself.

Got zol gebn, er zol hobn altsding vos zayn harts glist, nor er zol zayn geleymt oyf ale ayvers un nit kenen rirn mit der tsung.
God should bestow him with everything his heart desires, but he should be a quadriplegic and not be able to use his tongue.

Migulgl zol er vern in a henglayhter, by tog zol er hengen, un bay nakht zol er brenen.
He should be transformed into a chandelier, to hang by day and to burn by night.

Zayn mazl zol im layhtn vi di levone in sof khoydesh.
His luck should be as bright as a new moon.

Er zol hobn paroys makes bashotn mit oybes krets.
He should have Pharaoh’s plagues sprinkled with Job’s scabies.

Er zol kakn mit blit un mit ayter.
He should crap blood and pus.

Heng dikh oyf a tsikershtrikl vestu hobn a zisn toyt.
Hang yourself with a sugar rope and you’ll have a sweet death.

Es zol dir dunern in boykh, vestu meyen az s’iz a homon klaper.
Your stomach will rumble so badly, you'll think it was Purim noisemaker

Listen to Yiddish,

http://www.yiddishradioproject.org/


"All that survives from the "golden age" of Yiddish radio in the 1930s to '50s are a thousand fragile discs, rescued from storerooms, attics, and even dumpsters. But what a story they tell! The Yiddish Radio Project is a celebration of these recordings and of the forgotten geniuses and dreamers who created them. The exhibits on this site feature the Yiddish Radio Project radio documentaries that were first broadcast on NPR's "All Things Considered," rare Yiddish radio clips, archival photographs, and various ephemera from a forgotten radio universe".

Just want to let all of you in their forum know that I have started a similar thread focusing on Ladino in the Spanish forums, and there seems to be a good chunk of interest in the language.

And those curses, :hilarious. It has always amazed how strikingly similar the Catholic and Jewish senses of humor are to each other. :yes:

oh this is interesting I am coming to see that thread I know too little about Ladino
but I know yiddish :)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=259997

Here is the link. However, it is entirely in Spanish (you will see some of the forumers rib me for my incorrect Spanish. But there is a written comparison between Castellano (Spanish) and Ladino, as well as an mp3 of Ladino.

Great thread! (Nisht geferlich ) :)

yiddish sounds like german....

16% of hebrew slang came from yiddish...

Yiddish sounds different then German (the sound is kind of longer), but it is based on it. many words are the same and German speaking people understand much of it (and vise versa).

The sitcom "The Nanny" introduced the greater US population to a crapload of Yiddish phrases. "Oy Genug already ma!" was a classic line. :laugh:

Yiddish is very vibrant in Montreal, the city in the world with the highest concentration of Hasidic Jews (outside of Israel).

Yiddish is very vibrant in Montreal, the city in the world with the highest concentration of Hasidic Jews (outside of Israel).

Are you sure, because Jews make up around a quarter of the population in New York City, at 2 million.

http://www.ardmoreite.com/images/051803/religionLR.jpg

Hasidic Jews, not Jews in general.

Hasidic Jews are so self-seggregated most of them don't speak a word of French of English but communicate solely in Yiddish. Hebrew being too holy a language for day to day use.

http://www.ardmoreite.com/images/051803/religionLR.jpg

Hasidic Jews, not Jews in general.

Hasidic Jews are so self-seggregated most of them don't speak a word of French of English but communicate solely in Yiddish. Hebrew being too holy a language for day to day use.

ahhh, ok, did not know that.

they are also jews.......

they are also jews.......

of course, but they maintain a very specialized identity within the larger Jewish community.

ahhh, ok, did not know that.
I still think that Brooklyn has a higher concentration.

sorry to sound racist but I think with what is happening with these
people most secular people will agree with me - I preffer living
with moderate christian or muslim arabs as neighbors than with these
people that are totally segregated and zombied.

agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee:)))))

sorry to sound racist but I think with what is happening with these
people most secular people will agree with me - I preffer living
with moderate christian or muslim arabs as neighbors than with these
people that are totally segregated and zombied.
They are not 'zombied' at all. Nor are they 'totally segregated'.

And although you may not care, which is your loss to be sure, they are great people and you will not find more helpful people.

helpful yes, when it comes to helping each other in their communities.
zombied.. well maybe not overseas where they have to work and socialize to get along but here they sure are!

helpful yes, when it comes to helping each other in their communities.
zombied.. well maybe not overseas where they have to work and socialize to get along but here they sure are!
No, not even in Israel.

You simply do not understand them. Of course, they might not understand you very well either. I do not know. And they are not any more segregated than some other groups in Israel. They just happen to not be 'your' group.

But what do you want them to do? Their daily events involve their community. They have their own interests. They have no interest in movies or clubbing or football or other nonsense. So they don't go where you go. There can people who go out and still be very segregated if they only interact with their own groups or types of people. Maybe it is you who is also segregated? Is that possible?

Yiddish is very vibrant in Montreal, the city in the world with the highest concentration of Hasidic Jews (outside of Israel).



No, actually you're wrong. New York City has the highest population of Hasidic Jews outside of Israel at 250,000 (150,000 of them live in Brooklyn alone) followed by Antwerp, Belgium. There are about 20,000 Hasidic Jews in all of Canada. Antwerp alone has 15,000.

^^

Source?