View Full Version : Tab for Med School Quadruples, Law-school Triples


rt_0891
September 28th, 2005, 12:50 AM
It's hard being a middle-class citizen in Ontario...

Is there a doctor in the province?

By TERRY WEBER

Tuesday, September 27, 2005 Posted at 3:17 PM EDT

Globe and Mail Update

The cost of getting a professional degree in Ontario soared in the wake of deregulation, with the tab for medical school quadrupling and law-school fees nearly tripling, Statistics Canada said Tuesday.

In a new study looking at the impact of rising tuition fees, the government agency also said the sharp increase also went hand-in-hand with changes in who was attending professional schools during the period, with students from families in the middle of the socio-economic spectrum less likely to pursue those career paths.

According to the findings, tuition fees in undergraduate programs across Canada rose by 50 per cent on average between 1995-96 and 2001-02.

In law, however, tuition fees surged 80 per cent, while costs associated with medical school jumped 160 per cent.

The agency also said the increases were not shared evenly by all provinces, with some provinces even seeing declines in some costs during the period in question.

"These increases were largely the product of trends in Ontario, where fees in professional programs were deregulated in 1998," Statscan said.

That policy change meant universities in the province could set whatever fees they wanted for all graduate programs and some undergraduate professional programs.

By comparison, in British Columbia — where fees continued to be regulated during the study period — tuition costs fell moderately. In B.C., the cost of attending medical school fell 3 per cent, while law-school fees fell 5 per cent.

In Quebec, which also regulated fees, tuition costs increased by about 44 per cent in medicine and 27 per cent in dentistry, Statscan said.

"Other provinces had already deregulated fees, or experimented with deregulation to varying degrees." Statscan said.

"This resulted in fee increases for Nova Scotia, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta, that lay somewhere between the two extremes of Ontario on the one end, and Quebec and British Columbia on the other."

Tuesday's report also found that during the period of rapidly rising tuition fees in Ontario, recent university graduates from the most well-educated families — those with parents holding either graduate or professional degrees — became much more likely to pursue professional degrees.

Before the jump in fees, 2.4 per cent of those students pursued professional degrees, Statscan said. That percentage increased to 5.2 per cent afterward.

The study also found a similar increase in Ontario students from the least-educated families — those with parents who had no post-secondary qualifications.

The likelihood of enrolment for those students rose to 1.2 per cent from 0.5 per cent, Statscan said.

"Although the study did not determine the reason for this increase, it is possible that increased access to student aid may have played a role," the agency said.

Students from families in the middle — those with parents who had post-secondary education below a graduate degree — saw their likelihood of enrolment drop to 1 per cent after the fee increase, from 2 per cent before.

"It is possible that some students in this group either could not afford or chose not to pay the higher fees, and did not qualify for as much student aid as students from less educated families," Statscan said.

In Quebec and British Columbia, where fees stayed relatively stable, there were no changes in enrolment patterns. No declines in enrolment were registered among students in these provinces from middle educated parents, the agency said.

Student groups said Tuesday the study backs up their arguments that climbing tuition fees erode access to education.

"We've been saying all along that rising tuition fees aren't just an ongoing concern for low- income families, rising fees will steadily impede access for more and more modest-income families," Jesse Greener of the Canadian Federation of Students said in a statement issued in response to the study.

snoopy
September 28th, 2005, 12:52 AM
so what are the actual tuition fee numbers for law/medical school in Ontario and BC? this is bad since I was planning on being a lawyer... but in the end I probably will be unable to afford it.

rt_0891
September 28th, 2005, 01:03 AM
so what are the actual tuition fee numbers for law/medical school in Ontario and BC? this is bad since I was planning on being a lawyer... but in the end I probably will be unable to afford it.

For UBC, it's:

Law School: $9,180
Medicine: $ 14,000

http://students.ubc.ca/welcome/finance.cfm?page=tuition

For UT, it's:

Law: $16,000
Medicine: $17,018

http://www.fees.utoronto.ca/English/page-2-14919-1.html

In Quebec, Quebec residents only pay about half of what other Canadian residents have to pay when entering its universities.

Homer J. Simpson
September 28th, 2005, 02:01 AM
As I have pointed out many times, Ontarians have one of the poorest funded education systems in all of Canada which is ironic considering that Ontario funds this nation (minus Alberta).

addisonwesley
September 28th, 2005, 02:57 AM
...hmm, have to med school still, Ontario is short of doctors.

snoopy
September 28th, 2005, 02:59 AM
i heard the UT law and medical school increases are due to the university wanting to look just as prestigous and on par as American universities... so in order to do that... they raised their fees. =_='' i would have thought allowing people who have worked hard to get their place in law and medical school would be more prestigious than people getting in just because they can pay for it...

sigh... my hopes and dreams have once again gone down the crapper. oh well, its not the first time.
i thought canadian/ontarian universities were publically funded?

salvius
September 28th, 2005, 05:17 AM
^ no, UofT law tuitions are not completely out of sync. Let's take a look here:

Ottawa: $9000

Windsor: $9500

UWO: $10,500

Queen's: $13,000

Osgoode Hall: $13,000

And if it wasn't for the freeze this year, the tuition would go up substantially. A law degree is an expensive piece of paper.

snoopy
September 28th, 2005, 05:38 AM
And if it wasn't for the freeze this year, the tuition would go up substantially. A law degree is an expensive piece of paper.

thanks for the numbers salvius and rt...
i just wanted to ask since i've heard it from many speakers that the price of tuition for univerities is set based on the expectation of how much you will earn in the future with that degree? or is that just fuddle duddle?

touraccuracy
September 28th, 2005, 06:56 AM
As I have pointed out many times, Ontarians have one of the poorest funded education systems in all of Canada which is ironic considering that Ontario funds this nation (minus Alberta).

Ontario doesn't support all of Canada, despite what you would like to think. I don't think Ontario is in a position to complain about the way things are run in this country, they are the only ones with the power to change since they control which federal party is in power.

rt_0891
September 28th, 2005, 07:13 AM
they are the only ones with the power to change since they control which federal party is in power.

Unfortunately, every party Ontario can vote to power is against Ontario. With the exception of the NDP, most parties are anti-Ontario. And course, the NDP will likely never form a government. The fiscal situation's quite bad over here. I've been here for a couple of years, and it shocked me how strapped for cash the Ontario government is.

I reckon that Ontario's current fiscal situation is similiar to the BC-NDP fiscal fiasco in the 90s. The only difference is that the BC NDP party actually had a choice not to screw up, but they did. Ontario on the other hand seems to be suffering from the full burden of equalization payments, and it can't optout of this fiscal strap.

Steeltown
September 28th, 2005, 07:37 PM
McMaster University which is a big medical University cost

$15,002.86 a year for three years (medical)

It has gone up from $13,500 in 2001.

rbt
September 28th, 2005, 09:00 PM
I reckon that Ontario's current fiscal situation is similiar to the BC-NDP fiscal fiasco in the 90s. The only difference is that the BC NDP party actually had a choice not to screw up, but they did. Ontario on the other hand seems to be suffering from the full burden of equalization payments, and it can't optout of this fiscal strap.Ontario is suffering from tax cuts.

Most provinces were heavily slashing taxes at the same time as the feds have been downloading services to them. Ontario cut taxes a little futher than the rest of them and went through a few dumb manouvers (electrical system prices and infrastructure, and the highway 407 deal). We also had a little bad luck with SARs and the like.

Equilization payments are painful as a result of our own mismanagement through the late 90's. If we didn't do silly things during that timeframe, the equilization payment discrepencies would never have come up.

rt_0891
September 29th, 2005, 02:30 AM
Ontario is suffering from tax cuts.

Most provinces were heavily slashing taxes at the same time as the feds have been downloading services to them. Ontario cut taxes a little futher than the rest of them and went through a few dumb manouvers (electrical system prices and infrastructure, and the highway 407 deal). We also had a little bad luck with SARs and the like.

Equilization payments are painful as a result of our own mismanagement through the late 90's. If we didn't do silly things during that timeframe, the equilization payment discrepencies would never have come up.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm surprised, since Ontario's taxes don't seem much lower than BC or Alberta. Auto insurance, tuition and now the health premium adds up to be quite a heavy load. It was kind of my shocking that my car cost 75% more to insure here in Ontario than in BC.

addisonwesley
September 29th, 2005, 02:38 AM
Yes, Ontario, the crap province.

rt_0891
October 11th, 2005, 04:38 PM
University enrolment hits record high: Statscan

By TERRY WEBER

Tuesday, October 11, 2005 Posted at 9:28 AM EDT

Globe and Mail Update

Canadian university enrolment touched record levels in 2003-2004, with the impact of Ontario's double-cohort year, a sharp increase in foreign students and a shift in the country's economy helping trigger the biggest year-over-year increase in more than a quarter of a century, Statistics Canada said Tuesday.

During the academic year, the total number of students enrolled in university hit a record 990,400, up 6.1 per cent from the year before and 20.4 per cent from 1997-1998.

The 2003-2004 increase was the biggest in 28 years and marked the sixth consecutive year in which enrolment set a new high.

Outlining recent trends, Statscan noted that enrolment among Canadians aged 18 to 24 has risen faster than overall university recruitment.

Since 1995, university registrations by students in that age group has risen by 27.5 per cent, reflecting the maturation of the so-called echo-boom generation — people born between 1980 and 1995 — and the increased demand for a university education.

“The restructuring of the Canadian economy over the past quarter century appears to have had an impact on demand for university education and the expectation of students on labour market requirements,” Statscan said.

“Many more entry-level jobs in today's economy require higher postsecondary qualifications than in the past.”

In 2003-2004, another big factor in the enrolment increase was the arrival of Ontario's double-cohort year, which saw students from two levels of high school head off to university at the same time because of the province's elimination of Grade 13.

Tuesday's report didn't say specifically how many students left Ontario's high schools for university that year, but it did note that enrolment growth at Ontario's universities was the highest of all provinces at 9.6 per cent. A total of 394,700 students enrolled in Ontario universities that year.

Also contributing to the 2003-2004 overall increase was an influx of foreign students. A record 70,000 students from other countries enrolled in Canadian universities in 2003-2004, up 16.8 per cent from the previous year.

Half of all foreign students were from Asia. China accounted for nearly 44 per cent of all Asian students.

Foreign students accounted for about 7 per cent of the university population in 2003-2004, nearly double the proportion seen a decade earlier.

By sex, women accounted for 59 per cent of all undergraduate registrations and 51 per cent of all graduate students.

In 2003-2004, the number of female undergraduate students increased by 7.5 per cent, while the number of male undergrads was up 6 per cent.

Enrolment was also up in nearly every field of study, Statscan said.

The only major field to register a decline in 2003-2004 was mathematics, computer and information sciences, where total enrolment fell by 3.2 per cent.

The biggest gain was seen in the field of business, management and public administration, which recorded an increase of 11.6 per cent. That field has led enrolment at Canadian universities since 1999-2000, the government agency noted.