Actually I am Thai myself but I live in America. When I went to a trip to Thailand, the tourists guides told us that the Ankgor Wat in Cambodia originally belongs to Thailand. Is that true, 'cause I know that Cambodian and Thai are not very friendly, and when I went to Cambodia, the tourist guides told us that the ancient form of Muay Thai (Muay Boran) originally belongs to Cambodia many centuries ago and they said that the proof are in the Angkor Temple and "we" Thai people were trying to erase these proofs! Is that true?

I do really like asians history, plz tell me!!!

urghh..no offense man, but i think all of us here don't really wanna talk about these issues, it's very sensitive, u know.

Two coutries torn to be a war on the verge of breaking out last year caused for this panic issue ;)

yepp. and it started because of some soap tv actress's inappropriate comment.

yepp. and it started because of some soap tv actress's inappropriate comment.


but she denied it, didn't she?
I'm wondering why this kinds of evants happen so much often!!
Are Thai stars so stupid saying so? Is that true?
....yeah...this is a very sensitive issue. We should beware of our comments!

well i dont really know much about it..........
but i know that thai has lost many things to our neighbour............

yepp. and it started because of some soap tv actress's inappropriate comment.

No Pas, actually it started because Cambodian press made up the story to created a wave.

No Pas, actually it started because Cambodian press made up the story to created a wave.

I totally agree!!

they recked our embassy............. :(

^^ what happened?

These same old $hit again and again :nono:

I've been through some Khmer websites for years.
It seems like this kind of :bash: will never end.

SOME Khmers (I say some na, not all) always try to accuse us Thai with this bull$hit crap.
"Thais claim Angkor wat as theirs."
"Thais teach their children in school that Angkor wat belongs to them."
Blah Blah....

Can I ask you sth, have you ever met any thais who said that!
For me, NO!
but if yes. They are an IDIOTS.

We all know that Angkor Wat belong to Cambodia.

Just one period of time in the history that we conquered some Khmer provinces (including Angkor wat) but we are forced to return it after WWII.
^
^
^
It's written in my school book.

Errr Thai forumers, please ignore this guy. He's not really interested in knowing this, just wanting to test our opinions towards Khmer people and stirring things up. I am suspecting that he's a Khmer who lives in the USA. I am kinda familiar with his alias and his attitudes.Please note that this is his first post and it's not very relevant to ask about these issues in skyscrapers forum like this. Don't be fooled by this guy. I used to visit Khmer forum and I can tell you that their hatred and misunderstanding towards Thailand and Thai people are very strong. Most of these people still live with the past.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't hate them at all. I just don't like it when someone is trying to manipulate people and use their opinions to stir things up in a bad way.

I don't think an average Thai in his right mind could ever come up with such questions in public.

well i dont really know much about it..........
but i know that thai has lost many things to our neighbour............


Yes, that's true.
but don't let it makes us hate our neighbours.

You should know that our neighbours have also lost many things to Thailand.
Just what we did to our neighbours in the past (esp. Khmer and Laos) has and will never be written in our histery books.

Errr Thai forumers, please ignore this guy. He's not really interested in knowing this, just wanting to test our opinions towards Khmer people and stirring things up. I am suspecting that he's a Khmer who lives in the USA. I am kinda familiar with his alias and his attitudes.Please note that this is his first post and it's not very relevant to ask about these issues in skyscrapers forum like this. Don't be fooled by this guy. I used to visit Khmer forum and I can tell you that their hatred and misunderstanding towards Thailand and Thai people are very strong. Most of these people still live with the past.

Please don't get me wrong, I don't hate them at all. I just don't like it when someone is trying to manipulate people and use their opinions to stir things up in a bad way.

I don't think an average Thai in his right mind could ever come up with such questions in public.


Totally agree krub.
now i am calm down. :)

I'm also quite familiar of this kind of thing from some khmers who always live in the past and don't try to open their minds.


And yes, I believe he "panomyeerum" is Khmer not Thai as he try to tell.

Don't you guys remember him started a thread asking "Tony Jaa is Thai or Khmer?". (I think this topic is deleted cos his post count is still 1.)
He just started the topic and gone, not any more posts from him after that.
I think not any Thai would ask these questions about khmer on Thai forum. :weird:


Anyway, I don't hate Khmer people na, just tired of some people. :drunk:
And i hope i will have a chance to visit Cambodia soon. :)

Totally agree krub.
now i am calm down. :)

I'm also quite familiar of this kind of thing from some khmers who always live in the past and don't try to open their minds.


And yes, I believe he "panomyeerum" is Khmer not Thai as he try to tell.

Don't you guys remember him started a thread asking "Tony Jaa is Thai or Khmer?". (I think this topic is deleted cos his post count is still 1.)
He just started the topic and gone, not any more posts from him after that.
I think not any Thai would ask these questions about khmer on Thai forum. :weird:


Anyway, I don't hate Khmer people na, just tired of some people. :drunk:
And i hope i will have a chance to visit Cambodia soon. :)


Yeah...you are absolutely right!!
We, Thai people never talk about this kind of things at all.
Why should we be stucked with the past which is totally useless.
....I personally think this thread should be close (b4 some stupid press will get to this thread and start making up the wave... :) )

euh... yes I am Thai but I live in a Khmer town in USA since I was 2 years old, now I'm 12, so that's why I have many khmer friends and that's what they told me...you can say that I'm khmer, I don't mind but I'm originally from Thailand and I have never a chance to live there, so I was just wondering how was Thailand relation to Cambodia, that's all!

Great!, then dont make such a sensitive issue such a topic of arguement and may leads to any kind of further fights. Otherwise you will not beable to post in the future.

well, what's wrong with it? I just ask a question, I don't care if I can't post here anymore, there's a lot of forum so I could discuss, it's weird that you're shocked about it...

well, what's wrong with it? I just ask a question, I don't care if I can't post here anymore, there's a lot of forum so I could discuss, it's weird that you're shocked about it...
Your attitude didn't come to me as how gracious Thai people are. I am sure people here are more than happy that you take your subject elsewhere where you can find more like-mindeds to discuss with.

Don't be felt frustrated even upset, if you're Thais-oversea - khun panomyeerum that just K Kalix told U b4 it's kind of taboo for both nation since several century ago ;)

Khmer & Siam, both of despises and contemptuous of even animosity against to each other, were long a feud

urghh..no offense man, but i think all of us here don't really wanna talk about these issues, it's very sensitive, u know.

And so, we're still be hostile and poke at both side till nowadays as simple as a piece of rumors and slanders :)


Two coutries torn to be a war on the verge of breaking out last year caused for this panic issue ;)

yepp. and it started because of some soap tv actress's inappropriate comment.

If you are interested for Siam history why not to check at website that easily be tracking out more

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

See? This guy "Isan" can awnser me correctly, he already gave me something!

Thanx!

I think that the moderator of this forum should close this thread. I am against censorship, but the fact that we discuss whether Angkor Wat belongs to Thailand or Cambodia cannot change the ownership that the Cambodians have over it. I mean, why discuss such a sensitive topic when we cannot change its current status?

I will not close it, yet.

well, what's wrong with it? I just ask a question, I don't care if I can't post here anymore, there's a lot of forum so I could discuss, it's weird that you're shocked about it...

Keep it a reminder. This is a forum about Urban developments.

I really really really fickued up with new member that comes with an attitude.

I think this thread should not be closed na krub.

panomyeerum ---> If you are really Thai, I apologise for my prejudice.

but you should understand that not any single Thai will come with these kind of topics na. :)

I think now you already have your answer na krub. Let me say it again...

Nowadays, no Thai people claim that Angkor wat belong to us, even before the riot in 2003. We all are acknowledged that Angkor wat is in Cambodia and Khmer people have all the rights over it.
(Ignore some Thai IDIOTS)

I can speak for Thai in my generation but not for ones in the past, esp who lived during WWII. As I told you before, we are taught in our school that we once conquered siem reap.

I quess some Khmers misunderstand us because of this.

If you still suspect...
1. come to Thailand, call me, I will show you my school book what is written in it.
2. come to Thailand, ask any people on the street, you will get your answer.
3. If we think Angkor wat in ours, why we call Pimai & Phnom Rung "Ancient Khmer Temple" huh.

enough said!

I hope you understand na and I will be appreciated if you transfer this to your khmer friends. :cheers:

No Pas, actually it started because Cambodian press made up the story to created a wave.

yes coming to think of it that's what happened. 'Lost in translation'

yepp. and it started because of some soap tv actress's inappropriate comment.

I. A Brief Chronology

In the days prior to January 29, Cambodians became increasingly incensed over alleged remarks by a Thai actress, Suwanan Kongying, who had supposedly commented in a cable television interview that she would perform in Cambodia only after Cambodia returned the Angkor Wat temples to Thailand. Circulated by word-of-mouth through Cambodia for months, her alleged remarks were first reported by the Cambodian media on January 18 in a small pro-government newspaper, Reaksmei Angkor. We have seen no independent confirmation of these remarks, and she denied making them. On January 27, Prime Minister Hun Sen commented in a widely televised public ceremony that Suwanan was not even worth the "blades of grass" at Angkor Wat. Student demonstrators later quoted Hun Sen's remarks as justification for their activities. Anti-Thai leaflets were distributed to students in the days prior to the demonstrations. These actions exploited long-standing Cambodian wariness of the Thai, based on a widespread perception that Thais look down on Cambodians..................................................



http://www.state.gov/images/i_logo04.jpg

Full Report (http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rpt/20565.htm) >>>>>> Report to the Congress on the Anti-Thai Riots in Cambodia on January 29, 2003

Well said Chemon.
We all know those monuments were khmer temples and were built by khmer and belongs to the khmer. It's in the text book. I've never come across a Thai person (someone I know personally ) who said otherwise.

I. A Brief Chronology

In the days prior to January 29, Cambodians became increasingly incensed over alleged remarks by a Thai actress, Suwanan Kongying, who had supposedly commented in a cable television interview that she would perform in Cambodia only after Cambodia returned the Angkor Wat temples to Thailand. Circulated by word-of-mouth through Cambodia for months, her alleged remarks were first reported by the Cambodian media on January 18 in a small pro-government newspaper, Reaksmei Angkor. We have seen no independent confirmation of these remarks, and she denied making them. On January 27, Prime Minister Hun Sen commented in a widely televised public ceremony that Suwanan was not even worth the "blades of grass" at Angkor Wat. Student demonstrators later quoted Hun Sen's remarks as justification for their activities. Anti-Thai leaflets were distributed to students in the days prior to the demonstrations. These actions exploited long-standing Cambodian wariness of the Thai, based on a widespread perception that Thais look down on Cambodians.

Students made up the bulk of demonstrators at the Thai Embassy during the daylight hours of January 29, when the demonstration was peaceful. However, in the late afternoon, according to eyewitnesses, the demonstration was taken over by the "Pagoda Boys," ostensibly an organization of male students in their twenties from the provinces, that the municipal authorities had previously used to break up anti-government demonstrations. Throughout the day, Thai Embassy officers, including the Ambassador, appealed to their RGC contacts to provide additional security to the embassy. Eventually, Prime Minister Thaksin contacted Prime Minister Hun Sen to request protection for the embassy and Thai businesses. Between 5:00 and 6:00 p.m. the demonstrators burned a Thai flag and then automobile tires. Unfounded rumors that the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok had been burned and Cambodian diplomats killed by Thai protesters exacerbated the situation. At about 6:00 p.m., approximately 50 demonstrators scaled the embassy fence and entered the embassy compound. There were only around ten national police officers present at that time, who took no action. They were subsequently reinforced by 10 to 20 additional policemen. Within minutes, more demonstrators entered the compound and at about 6:30 p.m., the mob entered the chancery, looting and setting fires. These fires gutted the embassy and ambassador's residence. Most of the embassy staff, including the ambassador escaped out the back of the embassy, climbing over a fence at the rear of the building. Only one embassy staffer was hurt, in a fall from the fence, although several diplomats narrowly escaped injury as they sought refuge in the Royal Phnom Penh Hotel and elsewhere. Reports indicate some attempted assaults against Thais, but none resulting in serious harm.

Following the burning of the embassy, the demonstrators systematically moved from one Thai-owned business to another, joined by motorcyclists, looting some businesses, burning others. At about 8:30 p.m., two hours after the demonstrators burned the Thai Embassy, Military Police appeared on the streets and began to suppress the demonstrations, firing their weapons in the air to intimidate the mobs and deploying armored personnel carriers. Sporadic fighting and gunshots took place throughout the night. A few demonstrators appeared to have sustained gunshot wounds, but no deaths were reported.

http://www.state.gov/images/i_logo04.jpg

Full Report (http://www.state.gov/p/eap/rls/rpt/20565.htm) >>>>>> Report to the Congress on the Anti-Thai Riots in Cambodia on January 29, 2003


Isan, it was also reported that that tv interview was dubbed into Cambodian, and the person who translated it got it wrong. Lost in translation :P

"These actions exploited long-standing Cambodian wariness of the Thai, based on a widespread perception that Thais look down on Cambodians."

It could be said also that is politically motivated, near the time of Cambodian election.. anyway I'll stop it at that. google search is probably better.

For your information na, AQUA :)

This one is good, I like his perspective. He's a foriegner who has Thai wife and work in cambodia. :okay:

http://www.talesofasia.com/cambodia-update-feb03.htm#riots

Riots in Phnom Penh

January 29. An angry mob lay siege to the Royal Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh, setting it afire and looting it thoroughly. Through the course of the night the mob continued to roam the city, trashing whatever lay in its path, and especially anything that bore Thai script. Several Thai businesses, including three hotels, and the Phnom Penh offices of the Shinawatra telecommunications company and Samart, were seriously damaged by rioters. In Siem Reap there were reports of sporadic vandalism against Thai-owned businesses but nothing on the scale seen in Phnom Penh. The Thai government has estimated damages at approximately one billion Thai baht (23.6 million US dollars).

Why?

Because a rumor started that Thai actress Suwanan "Kob" Kongying hated Cambodians, had accused Cambodia of stealing Angkor Wat and that she would never set foot in the country until Cambodia returned the temple to Thailand. The actress denied ever making these statements and no interview tape could be found that supported the allegation. Even the Khmer newspaper, the Koh Santepheap Daily admitted that there was no evidence to back up the rumor. Ultimately, it was revealed that the words she spoke came from a character she portrayed in a television series two years ago!!!!!

How did the rumor get started?

First of all, the actress is known in Cambodia because many Thai serials are dubbed in Khmer and shown on Cambodia television. She is (was) apparently quite popular with many young Khmers and her portrait adorns many homes in Cambodia (or did, anyway).

It was reported in the Koh Santepheap Daily on January 27 that the actress had made the comments on a recent television interview with Thai TV Channel 7. They, and other newspapers, published this report based on information received from three "sources". No attempt was made to verify the statements. They were simply published based on the tips received.

The following day, January 28, PM Hun Sen and Phnom Penh Governor Chea Sophara both called for a ban of Thai television in Cambodia. Hun Sen went further, calling the actress, known to Khmers as "Morning Star", "Thief Star". Hun Sen was quoted in the Koh Santepheap Daily as saying, “Thief Star’s life is not even equal to a patch of grass around Angkor Wat." Hun Sen was also quoted as saying, "Some houses don't even have portraits of Cambodian king, queen or even their own parents. But they hang that girl's picture."

However, on the same day, the local Cambodia news was now reporting that there was nothing to substantiate the quotes attributed to Suwanan Kongying and that it really was all hearsay.

But it was too late. People were stirred up and on the 29th a crowd of protestors gathered in front of the Royal Thai Embassy in Phnom Penh and in short order all hell broke loose when it was reported (falsely) that Thais had damaged the Cambodia Embassy in Bangkok.

Thais did protest outside the Cambodia Embassy in Bangkok but it was on the 30th, after the violence in Phnom Penh, and no violence or damage of any significance took place. And for the first time in a decade, His Majesty the King stepped into a fray, issuing a letter to the protestors urging calm and reason and not to replicate the actions of their Cambodian neighbors. The crowd responded by peacefully dispersing after singing the National and King's Anthems.

The ensuing rampage through Phnom Penh was nothing short of pathetic and the actions of those 1,000 rioters is going to have some serious repercussions for the 12,000,000 Cambodians who did not go on a riot through the streets of the capital. Thailand is seriously and justifiably pissed. Diplomatic relations are at an all-time low. Diplomatic ties have been downgraded to charge d'affaires. The Thai ambassador to Cambodia is back in Bangkok and the Cambodia ambassador to Thailand has been sent home. Trade has been suspended. The land borders are closed to all Thais and Cambodians. Thai pledges of assistance on vital infrastructure projects have been withdrawn.

All because 1,000 idiots went on a nationalistic spree of violence based on an unsubstantiated rumor.

And...

It's an election year in Cambodia and the shit is hitting the fan already. As of today, January 31, it is appearing more and more that this was all a political game. As is being reported in the press locally and internationally, all indications point to political maneuvering, most likely originating from those in opposition to the ruling CPP. Anything that ultimately reflects negatively on a country, and believe me, this reflects very negatively on Cambodia, will reflect negatively on the government in power. Usually it's Vietnam that is dragged into this mess, but now it's Thailand. And Thailand is not going to tolerate being included in Cambodian political squabbling.

What will transpire in the next week, month? Who knows? This is one more episode in a thousand years of neighboring hostilities that ultimately will have to be worked out by the two countries.

I don't care to jump in the middle of what really is not my direct concern, but as one with one foot firmly planted in each of the two countries, I can't help but to at least offer a few observations that might aid in understanding why this happened.

Khmers are very sensitive to a number of issues, most notably the demarcation of their border and real or perceived border encroachment, both by the Thais and by the Vietnamese. There is also a feeling of exploitation by Thailand, who is a much larger, wealthier neighbor. Much of the illegal logging has been for the benefit of Thailand, and Khmers are understandably angered at the continued presence of Angkorian statuary appearing for sale in expensive art and boutique shops in Bangkok. Finally, as Thailand had at one point occupied the northwest section of Cambodia, there is the fear that they'd like to take this area back. The truth is, the Thai government makes no claim to Angkor Wat and I think most Thais feel the same. Granted, there are some Thais who do believe Angkor Wat belongs to them and I'm not shy to say that those folks have their heads firmly up their asses, but I don't believe that is a majority opinion. And I would add, then, that if Angkor belongs to Thailand than seeing as the Khmer empire had once extended into a number of Thai provinces in the Isaan region, couldn't the Cambodians just as legitimately lay claim to that territory? Same logic. But regardless, Cambodians are not secure in their border or in their ability to maintain sovereignty over what they believe is theirs, which is little more than the territory which they have today. This is why it is so easy to whip up such a firestorm as occurred on the 29th of January. But it's also important to note that Cambodians do not seek to extend their borders further. They are content with what they have, they only want to keep it intact. It doesn't matter if this fear is real or not, the fact is, the Cambodians feel it, so that makes it real.

And one last thing to think about. When a Thai complains that all their stolen cars are ending up in Cambodia, consider that it was a Thai who stole the car and a Thai that allowed it to leave the country. And when a Khmer complains about the looting of their temples and these treasures appearing in shops in Thailand, consider that it was a Khmer that broke the head off the statue and a Khmer that allowed the stones to leave the country. Both of you are in this world together as neighbors. Please sort this problem out.

Thailand - please try to understand your smaller neighbor better. While there is no justification for what happened to your embassy and your businesses, do try to see the Cambodian side. You don't have to agree with them or even like them. Just understand why they do what they do.

Cambodia - get your political house in order. What you do internally is your problem. You can squabble and backstab all you want but involving another country in a domestic political issue is reprehensible. If you want any respect as an independent country capable of maintaining legitimate standing in the world - then start acting like it.

Everyone else - this is not about one actress and what she did or didn't say. It's about one thousand years of history.

and some more

Riots in Phnom Penh - the aftermath
http://www.talesofasia.com/cambodia-update-mar03.htm#riots2

Cambodia & Thailand - the riots: the bill is in
http://www.talesofasia.com/riots2.htm

The year in review
http://www.talesofasia.com/cambodia-update-jan04.htm#review

Why do you guys bother to respond to the OP? He's just trolling.

I've never even thought of Ankor Wat as being Thai.
I don't even want it to be Thai.

well.......
the style is CAMBODIAN............
its built by CAMBODIANS........
it was for the knig of KHAMER........
is it belongs to COMBODIA...............
and we have these kind of wat in thailand too.......
like Phimai...........

We know Angkor Wat belongs to Cambodia. This was a politic game.

Ok, lets stop here...atlease I already banned him on his behave.

I've never even thought of Ankor Wat as being Thai.
I don't even want it to be Thai.


Either!!!