I've seen the renders for the Penn tower. It's in the "Chicago School" classic skyscraper design, like the Century building across the street so there's not a lot of room for the type of lighting you're talking about.

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=196829 The lower pic on Emporis was taken while standing on the Penn tower site.

The design has been essentially completed, although we're not sure about the number of stories yet. It will please all though. It probably will be considered the classiest of all the really tall towers downtown.

The Bail Bonds place is privately owned and has a sale price I'm sure. It's ugly, but I'm not worried about it. They're just waiting for the right offer.


OOOHHH....very exciting. I am a huge fan of "classic." Are the tenants wrapped up yet? Any word on when this is going to go public? Man, with MSA and this, an additional 60+ floors of highrise will be great.

Indy has a good "base" for a skyline. It is quite possible that these 2 towers will make us much more on par with other cities our size, like KC, Cincy, and even Charlotte. We good density and good height, just some holes. These 2 will go a long way in changing that.

moochie, i was more concerned with lighting than the desing. the GLG Grand is a classic design, I like it; does the rendering somewhat mimic that (the GLG Grand Four seasons). If not please describe it as much as possible; you've got me on the edge of my seat!!! can you sneak a pic in?

cwilson, Cincy has nothing on Indy unless you are just referring to clustering (haven't actually seen it w/ my own eyes in many years). KC's reminds me of atlanta's with one group of bldgs in one location and another 4 miles away (CBD vs. Midtown). I think Indy is ahead of KC too b/c KC's bldg are kind of bulky and just there.

sorry moochie, i re-read your comment and you did mention the lighting. so it is a box and you are saying it will please all? prove your case! (LOL)

I just hope its something that makes people envious of an Indianapolis building for once.

You went to Tech? So did I. Part time anyway. Did you ever have Ms. Parker for English? "Read, Read, Read and Read some more"...

I think the neighborhood will take off like a rocket when the Market street ramps come down. The woman who owns "New Again" recently moved in to a rehab a stones throw from Holy Cross church if that tells you anything about the viability of the neighborhood... That "mess on New York Street" says quite a bit as well. It's part of a "mammoth drainage initiative" for the entire neighborhood. In other words, all of the Holy Cross neighborhood is finally getting working street sewers. Highland Park has been excavated and will be on top of a huge drainage basin. rainwater will be diverted from the Holy Cross Neighborhood to the basin under Highland Park and from there will be (slowly) drained into pogues run where it goes underground at New York street... and eventually empties into white river. It will be finished this spring.

The following is from e-mails between myself and a DPW representative on 3/25/2005. I have his e-mail address and phone number if you want it.

"DPW and its contractors are embarking on a mammoth drainage
initiative over a significant portion of Highland Park. The work is expected to
take between 11 to 13 months to complete. Temporary construction fencing has been put up in place of some permanent fencing around and/or in the park."

"The drainage initiative will help relieve the current sewer system situation in the neighborhood. If you have any further questions, please feel free to give us a call or you're more than welcome to e-mail me back (if you like). Thanks for your inquiry! :-)"

Yes, I went to Tech High School. I still have a younger sister there today. I have heard mixed stories about pogues run and the sewer system. Do they plan to cover it completely including the part which runs next to the high school and middle school? Work is apparent in the area, a section of the campus on the west side is fenced off with construction equiptment including into the student parking lot.

Welcome to the forum GT!

A.what type of design would you like to see:
1. a simple but classy design like the Aon Center (formerly Standard Oil bldg) in Chicago
Maybe thirty years ago, I'm a huge fan of the Aon Center because of it's shear height, if you translate that into a 500 footer, it doesn't stand out oo much.

2. work by Pickard Chilton architecture firm: here is the website---http://www.pickardchilton.com/proj_calpers_01.html. Click on the corporate link. 1180 Peachtree in Atlanta and a similar one in Houston are nice. I've seen 1180 Peachtreein person and it looks great during the day b/c the sun hits it at different angles and the curved top allows for a good gradient effect. However, the lighting at night in the drawing is better than the actual; at night it looks like a rectangular bldg with a big lighted square on top, no gradient effect.
I like 1180 Peachtree, something like it would definatly have a good effect on the skyline. It does a good job at adding some flair to what would be a boring building.

3. something funky like the Asian/Hong Kong bldgs
I'm not a big fan of Asian skyscrapers. If it looked like Highcliff or the Center in Hong Kong, that would be fine, not something too gaudy.

4.Skidmore Owens & Merrill design
SOM's work on OneAmerica was nothing too spectacular, an interesting shape with a boring facade. I would be hoping for more of a Burj Dubai or Freedom Tower look.


5. do any of the local architecture firms design high-rise bldgs?

Ratio is doing the Simon Building, I wonder if Michael Graves would design a skyscraper here.


6. the glass diamond-pointed bldg in Dallas
I think Fountain Place, while beautiful, is too 80's.


7. something so weird/unique/abstract that it could be deemed as ugly
Back to Michael Graves, I think the Humana Building is an ugly piece of shit, and most of his buildings don't do anything for me, however many architectural critics view his work as brilliant. I think he could design something here that would fit your description.


8. something that deals more with different shapes.
Possibly.

Where is the exact location of this hotel going to be? I thought that they were building a parking garage across the street from Conseco.

-a developer by the name of James Shively (sp?) wanted to put a bowling alley/movie/mianature golfing/entertainment complex in the Lafayette Square area (and somewhere in Fishers or Noblesville). However, I think the Lafayette Sq area needs more residential--mixed-use type stuff. the entertaiment complex can be good but the big box stuff shouldn't go overboard. anybody remember anything about this? I think I aslo read that he was going to put a restaurant on the canal or river but the deal fell through.
I don't know what to do with Lafayette Square, it's hard to believe just how many parking lots there are in that area, I don't how desirable of an area it is in terms of infill.

However, I think that if the city were to put in some new urbanism developments around Keystone it would be a fit (fuck the NIMBYs). Here's an old post I made on the subject: http://skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=5026578&postcount=395

Conrad: Indy's Conrad looks like a modern version of Chicago's: http://conradhotels1.hilton.com/en/ch/hotels/index.do?ctyhocn=CHICICI
the renderings of Indy' bldg show the bldg with good night lightning, I hope that is what will actually happen

Keystone @ Crossing: Naptown, I think your idea will only happen if more jobs bring more folk to Indy or an URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARY (UGB) is created; i only say that b/c of single family housing prices/size and traffic is not horrible (plus, i would like to see more downtown first). sprawl is good to an extent and I think what exists is enough. are condos in Keystone definitley a no-go? the developer could build in the office park??? anyone pro UGB?

Classic design/Penn tower: so if a tower is built in the midst of older bldgs/classical bldgs is there no chance for a contemporary bldg? look at this link, scroll down to look @ some of the examples, I hope the bldg is more modern than those: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_%28architecture%29
moochie, do you think the renderings could be changed or is the engineering & final stuff being done at the same time?

moochie, you have all the good info...keep it coming!!! :)

good shot of downtown: http://www.kibi.org/

Glendale courts Target
If retailer joins mall, it could offset loss of 2 stores

Retailers and frequent shoppers at Glendale Mall are buzzing about one thing: the possible arrival of Target.

Commercial real estate brokers say the discount retailer could be just what's needed to bring the mall out of its doldrums as it braces for the departure this month of Old Navy and Casual Corner.

Kite Realty Group, the mall's owner, says the talk is premature. But Tom McGowan, Kite's executive vice president of development and chief operating officer, acknowledged that Target likely will be among the retailers it approaches as it decides how to revamp the struggling property.

"It's premature to say there's any conversation (with Target) at this point," he added. "Before we focus on tenants, we need to focus on a redevelopment plan for the site to maximize the value of the asset."

Target officials did not return phone calls seeking comment about a possible move to Glendale.

But the retailer already has a working relationship with Indianapolis-based Kite. Several Target stores are located at Kite-owned shopping centers, including in South Bend and Vero Beach, Fla. This month, Target began construction at a Kite location in Naples, Fla.

For months, Glendale retailers say they have been hearing that Target might come -- a development they consider to be good news.

"It gives us hope," said Delores Epps, who owns The Tea Cozy kiosk.

Others agreed.

"Customers are here, we just need the merchants to come in," said Gail Johnson, owner of B Jay's Enterprises, a cosmetic and fragrance shop that grew from a kiosk into a full-fledged store in six weeks.

Kite may feel some pressure to make a decision soon because its contract with Glendale's manager, General Growth Properties, expired at the end of 2005. Neither company would discuss what led them to part ways.

Luring Target could be one of the single best things done by Kite to bump up sales and activity at the 48-year-old shopping center, said Bill French, a vice president at Colliers Turley Martin Tucker. The mall over the years has lost a number of retailers to the Castleton and Washington Square malls.

"Target is a tremendous advertiser. They have a fantastic reputation, and they generate a lot of traffic," French said.

Such a move also could help Glendale maintain its one true anchor, L.S. Ayres. Its future has been uncertain since Federated Department Stores bought the Ayres chain last year and said it planned to close underperforming stores this year.

The population density in the Glendale area and the residents' available disposable income could make it an attractive location for Target, French said. Glendale serves an immediate market area of more than 238,000 people with average annual household income of $64,546 -- well above Central Indiana's average of $45,574.

Target doesn't have a strategy that favors or dismisses a mall location, said Edward Weller, a Thinkequity Partners analyst who follows the company.

"They take the locations that are desirable . . . that they can get," Weller said in an e-mail.

City leaders say they wouldn't be surprised if the retailer is in discussions with Kite. Just a few years ago, the discount giant was considering a site across the street from Glendale Mall after it shuttered its location at 52nd Street and Keystone Avenue.

"We would love to see them bring their presence back," said Gordon Hendry, director of economic development for the mayor's office.

And Target has proven its might in the enclosed mall landscape, industry experts say. Indianapolis-based mall owner Simon Property Group landed the retailer to help restore Washington Square Mall.

"They are a good tenant, one of our top 10 anchors now," said Simon spokesman Les Morris. "They draw people to our properties."

At Washington Square, a new Target store was built and attached to the shopping center -- an approach real estate brokers say could occur at Glendale.

That concerns longtime shoppers such as Hazel Keith.

Six days a week, the 80-year-old, her husband, Francis, and their circle of friends meet, eat and walk at Glendale Mall.

Keith fears their indoor walking trail and favorite mall gathering spots could be substantially altered by Target.

While many are quietly celebrating a possible Target at Glendale, Keith has other ideas.

"I am praying for a casino," she said. "That would help Kite, the state and me, too."

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20060113&Kategori=BUSINESS&Lopenr=601130427&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0
Mall savior? Glendale Mall tenants and shoppers are abuzz with rumors a Target store may arrive soon. The mall serves a market of 238,000 people with an average annual household income of $64,546, but it is losing an Old Navy and Casual Corner store this month.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601130427

It would be nice to get this store in downtown Indy. The one in Broad Ripple looks pretty nice from the outside...



Sunflower Market in bloom

Guests at the sneak-peek opening of Sunflower Market in Broad Ripple were just beginning to devour the organic sushi and full-bodied cheeses before John Strum started soliciting suggestions. Where would be a good spot for the next Indianapolis-area market?

Strum, a compact, wiry guy with lots of energy, heads Supervalu's Sunflower Market initiative. Despite the field greens for sale in the chilled produce room, the corporation isn't letting any grass grow under its expansion plans. Three stores will open in nearby states this spring, but Indiana will get at least another store soon, Strum said.

Carmel didn't seem to interest him, but Strum asked about Zionsville and wondered where an organic market might find happiness and an audience in Downtown Indianapolis.

After about five or 10 stores are open and operating, the company will take a step back and look over the operation before any major expansion begins. Clearly, parent company Supervalu sees organic grocery shopping as a new trend that won't fade away, provided the price is right.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601130517

A little more info from the IBJ about the new Sony store at the Fashion Mall...


Locally based Boyle Construction Inc. was awarded a contract to build the first Sony Style retail store in Indiana. The 5,200 square-foot store will be located in the former Limited Stores space at the Fashion Mall at Keystone. Construction is slated to start at the end of January and be completed by the end of March. Sony Style stores sell audio and video electronics. Allen Galloway, vice president of Boyle Construction, said the store will have a modern, sleek look and a unique scenting system "to make customers leave with an unforgettable sensory experience."

http://64.255.242.145/rew/

Yes, I went to Tech High School. I still have a younger sister there today. I have heard mixed stories about pogues run and the sewer system. Do they plan to cover it completely including the part which runs next to the high school and middle school? Work is apparent in the area, a section of the campus on the west side is fenced off with construction equiptment including into the student parking lot.
A couple hundred posts ago, someone here posted an Indystar article concerning pogues run at Tech. No, they' aren't covering it, just making it safer and more accessible so that science/nature classes can be held down there from time to time. The other schools will use it too.

As far as I know, they won't make any more of pogues run underground that already is. (it goes underground at New Yorks street and empties into white river)

Conrad: Indy's Conrad looks like a modern version of Chicago's: http://conradhotels1.hilton.com/en/ch/hotels/index.do?ctyhocn=CHICICI
the renderings of Indy' bldg show the bldg with good night lightning, I hope that is what will actually happen

Keystone @ Crossing: Naptown, I think your idea will only happen if more jobs bring more folk to Indy or an URBAN GROWTH BOUNDARY (UGB) is created; i only say that b/c of single family housing prices/size and traffic is not horrible (plus, i would like to see more downtown first). sprawl is good to an extent and I think what exists is enough. are condos in Keystone definitley a no-go? the developer could build in the office park??? anyone pro UGB?

Classic design/Penn tower: so if a tower is built in the midst of older bldgs/classical bldgs is there no chance for a contemporary bldg? look at this link, scroll down to look @ some of the examples, I hope the bldg is more modern than those: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_school_%28architecture%29
moochie, do you think the renderings could be changed or is the engineering & final stuff being done at the same time?

moochie, you have all the good info...keep it coming!!! :)

The Penn tower is in an historic area, and design choices are extremely limited. While I prefer postmodern buildings (when they're done well) it simply wouldn't be allowed or appropriate in that area. That neighborhood needs to retain it's early 1900's feel.

The Penn tower will be a refreshing change from the mostly lackluster post modern 30+ story buildings downtown, But I regret to say that it isn't likely to make other cities "envious" of us. It is however a very handsome, classy tower that most everyone will find agreeable. I don't know anything about the lighting, but I do know that the designs are not final, so I'm sure that your suggestion aren't unwelcome.

Corey, the plan is to have this anchored by a specific large law firm, who have committed, and most of the office space has been spoken for. There will be street level retail and restaurant/bar along Pennsylvania st. and the Hotel and office entrances will be on Maryland.The Southern part of the property and several floors of the main tower will be parking levels... which are sorely needed in the area. I doubt any of the residences are spoken for, but count on a lot of them to be purchased by NBA and NFL athletes, coaches and other VIP's.

Of course, a lot can change.

If anyone's interested, the same company that's building this tower is breaking ground in March on a new parking garage at 120 E. Washington st. I've been trying to get info on the Jefferson project, but no one's talking about that one...

Has anyone else noticed that One Market Square has taken down most of their outdoor advertising on the site? What does this mean?

Express store closing at Fashion Mall

INDIANAPOLIS -- The 5,234-square-foot Express store at the Fashion Mall is closing Thursday, mall owner Simon Property Group confirmed. Electronics retailer Sony will move into the apparel store's site, Simon said. (Star report)

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060111/BUSINESS/601110383/1003

Glenbrooke mall in Fort Wayne has 11 stores leaving! Including Express...good thing my Banana Republic or Abercrombie isnt leaving...whew

re: advertising @ One market (not sure of the exact reason); i inquired about pricing in high $100s and the rep said that they will start promos soon. also, i've only seen one sign & it was on the SW corner

moochie, is s.c. devcon still a part of the Penn tower developmnt (that is who i e-mailed a while back)? could this be a LEED bldg? also, when do you thnk we will know more about a large financial firm coming to Indy (i tried to find your previous post but couldn't)?

Designers sought for gateway

Rotary Club of Indianapolis is leading a campaign to build a gateway at Interstate 65 and West Street that would further the city’s mission of becoming a major cultural destination.

The organization is accepting requests for qualifications due Feb. 26. Teams that include architects, landscape architects, engineering firms, urban designers and artists should answer the call, said Carole Darst, co-chair of Rotary’s environment and beautification committee.

Five finalists will receive $7,500 from Rotary Foundation of Indianapolis to submit a detailed proposal for a landmark that is expected to cost $5 million to $10 million. Rotary is searching for funding partners to cover construction costs, Darst said.

The project is part of Mayor Peterson’s gateways initiative to promote tourism, attract new business and enhance neighborhoods. Last year, the mayor and Rotary identified locations that serve as gateways to major points of entry for the city. I-65 and West Street was chosen from 15 locations.

The gateway project is part of the local Rotary’s effort to help celebrate the 100th anniversary of Rotary International. For more information, visit www.indygateways.org.

Bike Line, Broad Ripple firm plan Mass Ave purchases
Two sales would be latest in owner-occupant trend

Two buildings on Massachusetts Avenue downtown are slated to change hands in coming weeks as two Broad Ripple businesses stake their claims on the resurging corridor.

The first deal scheduled to close is the sale of 409 Massachusetts Ave., owned for the last 15 years by advertising firm Young & Laramore. Elizabeth Dillon, owner of RN Specialties, plans to move her growing 10-year-old company and its 21 employees into the 17,000-square-foot building after minor renovations to the ad agency’s former space.

That deal could close as early as Jan. 20, with RN Specialties moving in as soon as late February, Dillon said. Y&L planned to move to its new home, a former school on Fulton Street in Lockerbie Square, Jan. 13.

RN Specialties will occupy about 10,000 square feet on the second and third floors of the building, with a reception area on the first floor. Dillon said she hopes to find a retail tenant to take over the remaining first-floor space.

Dillon will retain ownership of RN Specialties’ current building at 6060 N. College Ave., which will be leased to Noble of Indiana for its adult day programs.

The contract price for the Y&L building was not disclosed. Y&L listed the building in March for $1.6 million, and local real estate sources said initial offers met or exceeded the asking price.

In a second deal, the Revard brothers, owners of Bike Line shops in Broad Ripple and Carmel, have a three-story building at 911 Massachusetts Ave. under contract with plans to open a bicycle shop in time for the spring riding season.

The sale is scheduled to close in late February, but Bike Line has signed a lease with the current owner, Jim Blankenbaker, for the 3,000-square-foot first floor and is currently renovating the space, said Bike Line co-owner Jimmy Revard. Regardless of whether the sale closes in February, the retail shop will open in early March, he said.

The shop will give Bike Line its third location on or near the Monon Trail. The terminus of the trail, extended downtown in 2003, is around the corner from the building on Mass Ave. The building, next to interstates 65/70, gained notoriety several years ago for a wall mural of local radio personalities Bob Kevoian and Tom Griswold that was eventually ordered removed because local authorities said it violated the city’s sign ordinance.

Assuming the purchase closes, Revard said, he and his brothers will continue to rent out the top two floors of the building as one-bedroom apartments, at least for the near future. In addition to the retail store, Bike Line also plans to take over the basement of the building for storage. The owners are evaluating several longterm plans for that space, Revard said, including using the basement for bicycle storage and locker rooms for those commuting to downtown via bike.

Both deals are indicative of a trend of small businesses’ purchasing, rather than renting, their own space downtown, said Philo Lange and Matt Langfeldt, with NAI Olympia Partners.

Such arrangements allow businesses to take advantage of low interest rates and to recoup some of the costs of owning a building through renting space to other tenants, they said.

Lange and Langfeldt in the past couple of years have worked on several such deals, including the sale of the Wulsin building at 222 E. Ohio St. Langfeldt and NAI Olympia principal Gus Miller also brokered the deal for Y&L to purchase its new home on Fulton Street from locally based International Medical Group, which bought and moved to the former Indianapolis Life campus at 30th and Meridian streets.

NAI Olympia is currently working on a deal for the sale of the Marott Center at 342 Massachusetts Ave. to a buyer Lange and Langfeldt declined to identify.

That building will soon have a firstfloor vacancy when the Health Foundation of Greater Indianapolis moves to the Academy Building on Vermont Street in Lockerbie Square, which it purchased last year. The not-for-profit will occupy about 5,000 square feet of the 35,000-squarefoot building and continue to rent the rest to various tenants, said Chuck Cagann, president of Mansur Real Estate Services, which brokered the deal.

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/01/16/5/Img/Pc0050300.jpg
Nurse staffing firm RN Specialties plans a move to Young & Laramore’s building at 409 Massachusetts Ave. The fate of the fish in the window has yet to be determined.

The Penn tower will be a refreshing change from the mostly lackluster post modern 30+ story buildings downtown, But I regret to say that it isn't likely to make other cities "envious" of us. It is however a very handsome, classy tower that most everyone will find agreeable. I don't know anything about the lighting, but I do know that the designs are not final, so I'm sure that your suggestion aren't unwelcome.

Corey, the plan is to have this anchored by a specific large law firm, who have committed, and most of the office space has been spoken for. There will be street level retail and restaurant/bar along Pennsylvania st. and the Hotel and office entrances will be on Maryland.The Southern part of the property and several floors of the main tower will be parking levels... which are sorely needed in the area. I doubt any of the residences are spoken for, but count on a lot of them to be purchased by NBA and NFL athletes, coaches and other VIP's.

Of course, a lot can change.

If anyone's interested, the same company that's building this tower is breaking ground in March on a new parking garage at 120 E. Washington st. I've been trying to get info on the Jefferson project, but no one's talking about that one...


Is the hieght around 500-600'? This is what I was hearing from the IHPC, which if it is, will put it inside the top 4!!! This will be the first mulit-tenant office tower since Chase was built in 1990...and its about time. VERY EXCITING.
Bose-McKinney is the law frim, correct?

Is the hieght around 500-600'? This is what I was hearing from the IHPC, which if it is, will put it inside the top 4!!! This will be the first mulit-tenant office tower since Chase was built in 1990...and its about time. VERY EXCITING.
Bose-McKinney is the law frim, correct?

I cant wait to see a rendering. Where is Bose-McKinney currently located?

Is the hieght around 500-600'? This is what I was hearing from the IHPC, which if it is, will put it inside the top 4!!! This will be the first mulit-tenant office tower since Chase was built in 1990...and its about time. VERY EXCITING.
Bose-McKinney is the law frim, correct?
From what I understand, the actual height of the tower will be determined by the hotel element. So, 30+ stories to 40+ stories. 400 to 600 feet. Bose Mckinney is to be the anchor tenant.

I've got to think that because of high demand, the hotel should make the tower go very high, but there's a slight hitch... The Hampton Inn, which holds a lien on part of the property, may not want that much competition... so a lot is still up in the air.

Also, I still don't know if the Omega building is coming down or not. I think it is. Shawn and Greg will have to put up a pretty spectacular tower if the city lets them tear down that historic property... It's only 3 stories and painted brick, but still...

I cant wait to see a rendering. Where is Bose-McKinney currently located?

Bose is in First Indiana Plaza
B&D is in 300 N Meridian
B&T is in an old building at like Meridian/Washington
Ice Miller is (I think) in OneAmerica tower

I'm excited to see how this plays out, given that I have an interest in one of the "big 4" firms in town!!

is demand really that high moochie?

From what I understand, the actual height of the tower will be determined by the hotel element. So, 30+ stories to 40+ stories. 400 to 600 feet. Bose Mckinney is to be the anchor tenant.

I've got to think that because of high demand, the hotel should make the tower go very high, but there's a slight hitch... The Hampton Inn, which holds a lean on part of the property, may not want that much competition... so a lot is still up in the air.

Also, I still don't know if the Omega building is coming down or not. I think it is. Shawn and Greg will have to put up a pretty spectacular tower if the city lets them tear down that historic property... It's only 3 stories and painted brick, but still...

Do you know how many floors Bose McKinney will take in the new building? Hopefully First Indiana will be able to fill the space they will vacate.

I hope a deal can be worked out with the Hampton Inn to allow a hotel in the building. Do you know what type of hotel they are planning for or attempting to bring to the building? I would think as long as it isnt in the same price range as rooms in the Hampton, they shouldnt have a problem with it.

is demand really that high moochie?
Well, yes. The city has requested an additional 2000 hotel rooms in the general area of the expanded convention center. This will be a couple hundred rooms tops.

Do you know how many floors Bose McKinney will take in the new building? Hopefully First Indiana will be able to fill the space they will vacate.

I hope a deal can be worked out with the Hampton Inn to allow a hotel in the building. Do you know what type of hotel they are planning for or attempting to bring to the building? I would think as long as it isnt in the same price range as rooms in the Hampton, they shouldnt have a problem with it.
To answer both your questions: I don't know.

Currently downtown vacancy rates are under 10%. Normal vacancy rates are 20-25%. There is a real need for more office space downtown. First Indiana will be just fine. imho, currently downtown could support 3 to 4 more really tall mixed use buildings. Corey would know better than I about this though.

Sorry I am an out-of-towner and not that familiar with the project, but from the renderings I have seen, I must say I am not that impressed with the new Colts stadium. If you are going to build a new dome, why not build something cool like Ford Field? It looks bland and like that ugly Houston stadium. I have nothing against Indianapolis, so please enlighten me. But it just seems like a waste if you are going to build a stadium like that.

the public had no say and everything was done in secret--it's kind of a complex issue since the Colts were threatening to leave w/o a new stadium. many citzens & design professionals were upset.
In the Indianapolis Star in Oct. or Nov. they showed the three design proposals: one was a modern box (the worst of the three IMO), another was in the shape of a quasi-horseshoe (very contemporary--best), and the other is what was chosen (2nd best). There is some sort of creek that runs under the southern portion of the site and that costs money to deal with (from what I understand). The decision makers didn't want it to look like a horseshoe b/c other events will use the facility; therefore, the third was chosen--it is angled to provide a view of the skyline. If a more contemporary design did that then there would have been a better design chosen. Plus, I don't think it is as bad as it seems. One probelm I think is that none of the local firms are involved (not sure who did Conseco). due to time constraints with the Colts theatening to leave, there was no time to redesign anything..otherwise, i think it could have been possible. that is probably why the public wasn't involved.
i'm no expert but just making assumptions.

moochie, i had no idea vacancy rates were that low...that's good. according to IBJ, first week of the year edition, the rates were higher than that...I think (i'll double check). when do you think we'll know more about a financial firm moving to Indy (or downtown)? I tried to find your previous post but couldn't.

if the mixed-use tower will be 30-40 stories, it will have to stand out at night somehow. homework assignment for someone (please :) ): find an example of a contemporary "chicago school"/classical design in any city.

does anyone have an opinion if the bldg should have a triangular top/tapered top or not--that maybe lights up?

Sorry I am an out-of-towner and not that familiar with the project, but from the renderings I have seen, I must say I am not that impressed with the new Colts stadium. If you are going to build a new dome, why not build something cool like Ford Field? It looks bland and like that ugly Houston stadium. I have nothing against Indianapolis, so please enlighten me. But it just seems like a waste if you are going to build a stadium like that.Ford Field is cool... are you completely insane? This is cool???
http://www.photography-plus.com/images/Detroit/FordField072803_10.jpg
"Indiana Stadium" is designed as an old Hoosier Fieldhouse. It's historically correct, and unique to the NFL. Are we supposed to build another craphouse that resembles a 1970's idea of a space station like most NFL domes?

First off, I said cool. The cookie cutter stadiums of the 1960s looked good from the air too, but lets face it, after a few years they get old and then suck. I was at Ford Field about a month ago when my Memphis Tigers played in the Motor City bowl, and it was pretty sweet.

I have been to a lot of dome stadiums, for baseball and football, and it was by far the best dome stadium I have ever been to. And thats saying something too, because baseball stadiums are generally better done than football.

I understand why Indy wants a dome, and thats cool. Its just why couldnt they have done something in the lines of Conseco or Ford Field, which lets face it, everyone raves about after they have been there. It just sickens me to see another Reliant Stadium, which although new, from experience isnt that great.

First off, I said cool. The cookie cutter stadiums of the 1960s looked good from the air too, but lets face it, after a few years they get old and then suck. I was at Ford Field about a month ago when my Memphis Tigers played in the Motor City bowl, and it was pretty sweet.

I have been to a lot of dome stadiums, for baseball and football, and it was by far the best dome stadium I have ever been to. And thats saying something too, because baseball stadiums are generally better done than football.

I understand why Indy wants a dome, and thats cool. Its just why couldnt they have done something in the lines of Conseco or Ford Field, which lets face it, everyone raves about after they have been there. It just sickens me to see another Reliant Stadium, which although new, from experience isnt that great.
Okay, I'll bite. how does this:

http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/future/coltsmain.jpg
http://www.nuvo.net/archive/images/12.22.04/dis_Stadium_sp.jpg



look like Reliant stadium...

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/texas/houston_reliant1.jpg
http://www.photohome.com/pictures/texas-pictures/houston/reliant-stadium-2a.jpg

in any way shape or form? And for chrissakes... as I stated before, Indiana Stadium was designed after Conseco Fieldhouse, and the old classic fieldhouses....

Ever since the Real World located in Austin, I fell in love with the Frost Bank Tower. I'd love to see something like this for Penn Tower. What I love is the top of the building. It is uniquely tapered and lights up brightly at night. It's height is 515'. Though I doubt this is Chicago-school, this is still an impressive building with great lighting.

http://www.inlumino.com/blog/images/_MG_4517_frost_tower01-thumb.jpg

At night:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/downtown/images/cong-4th-night.jpg

moochie, are you not able to answer when we will know about a financial firm moving to Indy (or dnwntn)--sorry to be a pest just curious?
do you have any power of influence on Penn tower since you saw the renders already?
what kind of material did the facade look like (please not limestone)?

click on this link @ look at the bldg in Boston; is this close--hope not? http://www.ramsa.com/office.htm

i think it would be feasible to do a classical design on the street level or first five floor and then have a tower that is more contemporary, don't you all? that way it still fits within the context.

or what about this bldg: http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=117100

Forgive me for writing about a suburban development, but this is pretty big:


New look for core
Urban Gramercy would replace Mohawk Hills Apartments/Golf Course


By Bruce C. Smith
bruce.smith@indystar.com
The tired and aging Mohawk Hills apartments and golf course, a 1960s-era complex in the core of Carmel, could give way over the next few years to one of the biggest makeovers in the city's history.

Complex of 116 acres: Planned for land currently occupied by the 40-year-old Mohawk Hills apartment complex, Gramercy would feature an urban design with a clock tower, as in this sketch. In the business areas, there would be small businesses on the ground floors, with apartments on the upper levels. - Artist rendering provided by Buckingham Companies

Real estate developer Buckingham Properties has filed plans for city approval that would mean demolishing the 564-unit apartment complex and nine-hole course in the next few years.
The 2006 season could be the last for Mohawk Hills Golf Club, with its nine fairways and greens that weave among the apartment buildings.
The 116-acre site at 126th Street and Keystone Avenue in the city's core would be transformed into a new urbanist-style development of upscale townhomes, apartments, hotels, offices, senior living units, cafes, parks, plazas and a central business district. A clock tower would be an icon of the development.
Buckingham calls it Gramercy, an expression derived from French, reflecting thanks, gratitude and surprise.
The traditional urban neighborhood design, with its ornate business buildings around a plaza and brownstone apartment buildings, is modeled on 100-year-old architecture in city centers around the world. The name borrows from the upscale and historic Gramercy in Manhattan that dates from the 1830s.
"It's almost like they are planning to build a small city within the city," said Carmel redevelopment director Les Olds, referring to the Buckingham project.
Real estate experts said it could easily cost hundreds of millions of dollars to turn the Gramercy concepts into reality during the next seven to 10 years. It would dramatically change the 126th Street, off of Keystone, gateway into downtown Carmel.
The architectural and land use philosophy of Gramercy would mesh with city officials' plans for reshaping the City Center and Old Town with a Performing Arts Center and an Arts & Design District.
"This should fit well with what the city is already doing nearby. I think people will like the feel of this place," said David Leazenby, vice president of land development for Buckingham.
Gramercy, he said, will be pedestrian-friendly. And it will have a higher density of housing than the four units per acre that city planners enforced 40 years ago when Mohawk Hills was built.
Buckingham's plans will be introduced at a city Plan Commission meeting Feb. 21 and begin a review process that typically takes months. The designs are mostly conceptual and don't have great detail, including the number of housing units.
However, city officials said there could be 1,200 to 2,000 units for sale and rent, or several times more than currently in Mohawk Hills.
It is a project conceived to fight suburban sprawl that absorbs farm land and wildlife habitat.
"This is growing smarter," Leazenby said.
Carmel Plan Director Mike Hollibaugh agreed that today's design trends are much different than the 1960s Tudor style of Mohawk Hills.
"This is changing the face. It is a huge project. It is a key location in the core of Carmel, and it fits exactly with our civic design process. Look at a map of future neighborhoods, and you'll see a project just like this.
"We're trying not to use density of housing to measure some projects these days but rather to make sure the development is first class and very high quality. We want to make sure the details will be consistent with the City Center," Hollibaugh said.
"Of course, we don't take the loss of the green space lightly," he said. "You won't see the wide open vistas of the golf course, but there will be green spaces and parks within two or three minutes' walk."
Traffic engineers have been looking at the possible effect of more people living, working and visiting the area.
While Mohawk Hills has just one driveway, which is off 126th, Gramercy will have two on 126th plus an extension of AAA Way or another road off East Carmel Drive on the south side. At least four new drives are planned on the west side connecting to the Auman subdivision.
Buckingham is a real estate development and apartment ownership company with at least a dozen projects in Indiana and neighboring states, including several in Carmel.
It bought Mohawk Hills in 2004 for a reported $30 million from Chicago-based Executive Capital Corp, which had owned it since 1980. Buckingham has updated the clubhouse and made other improvements.
Leazenby said residents' leases remain in effect and any moves would occur over several years . The complex averages about 86 percent occupancy. Up to 50 percent of residents move annually.
Mohawk Hills was built by the late Robert Bodner, an Indianapolis developer, who flew a plane over then-remote areas around Indianapolis looking for farm fields with potential.
One of his sons, Steve Bodner, said Mohawk Hills was built on such a farm, divided by construction of Keystone Avenue.
The golf course was added in 1973, according to Steve Shanks, who has worked at the course nearly 32 years, including the past 26 years as the pro.
He sent a letter to members saying the course is to remain open through this year, but the future is uncertain. About 22,000 rounds of golf were played there last year, down about 35 percent from 10 years ago.

Link to see the rendering:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060112/ZONES01/601120329&SearchID=73232658978136

moochie, are you not able to answer when we will know about a financial firm moving to Indy (or dnwntn)--sorry to be a pest just curious?
do you have any power of influence on Penn tower since you saw the renders already?
what kind of material did the facade look like (please not limestone)?

click on this link @ look at the bldg in Boston; is this close--hope not? http://www.ramsa.com/office.htm

i think it would be feasible to do a classical design on the street level or first five floor and then have a tower that is more contemporary, don't you all? that way it still fits within the context.
I don't know anything about a financial firm.

I have zero influence on the design. I just know the principal guys putting it together on purely a personal level. This is their first tower, and they want very badly to make a real splash as far as the design, but really, the city and the historical society makes the real decisions in that neighborhood.

The exterior is currently planned to be mostly reddish brown brick.

Why are you so stuck on a contemporary design? There will be plenty of other towers going up in the next 5 to 10 years. It's important that this tower fit in with it's surroundings.. This is the warehouse district after all. Even if I can find a pic, much can and will change before they break ground.

Look, just think of the Barnes and Thornburgh building, and double the height. It's attractive and appropriate.
http://www.emporis.com/files/transfer/sixwm/2005/12/419848.jpg
http://www.emporis.com/files/transfer/sixwm/2005/12/419848.jpg

I am fine with that. Something similar to the Conrad design in terms of style is very appropriate in that area. A tower there will really add some depth to the skyline. With the Stadium, there will be a lot of "bulk" south of Washington.

thanx moochie. it's not that i am so stuck on contemporary as hoping that they will be as creative as possible. i just don't want 95% of the designs of new bldgs to be under some historic mandate.

I want to see something like the Frost Bank Tower, that is awesome, during the day and at night. I just am not seeing a "real splash" with brick, I find it "real depressing"?

Oh ya, I would love to see a large financial firm locate here, but i have not heard of any such developments.

I want to see something like the Frost Bank Tower, that is awesome, during the day and at night. I just am not seeing a "real splash" with brick, I find it "real depressing"?

I too would like to see a contemporary tower, but that type of building would be out of character in that location in the wholesale district.

I want to see something like the Frost Bank Tower, that is awesome, during the day and at night. I just am not seeing a "real splash" with brick, I find it "real depressing"?
Again, the phrase "Historic Wholesale District" comes to mind. We can put flashy postmodern buildings lots of places downtown.

Again, the phrase "Historic Wholesale District" comes to mind. We can put flashy postmodern buildings lots of places downtown.

You heard anything from your friends about when they're hoping to make the project public?

You heard anything from your friends about when they're hoping to make the project public?
The project was announced to the press in October. Groundbreaking is set for late this year. You can look it up on emporis.com and skyscraperpage.com The details are still being worked out.

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=249967

cwilson, was it you that mentioned Wells Fargo (or the like) or someone else or was I seeing things? unfortunately, i can't find the posting.

Yes I agree I would actually like a historic looking building, especially in that area. I am excited to hear more about this tower project.

Wow is it just me or is this entire region seeing a huge boom? I cant wait to hear more about the Penn Tower. Indy is doing well, Louisville has awakened from its slumber, and even Cincy is waking up (Louisville has several proposed towers all over now, including one at the new arena!). I think this region is really going to start attracting more people tired of the rediculous prices on the coasts and wanting to downsize, while still living in a cool city.

As much as we argue on here, this region doing well only means one thing--that something around here is going right, and the entire OH-KY-IN-TN, hell MO whatever is not a bad place to live.

I think you're exactly right, Gych. People are starting to realize that cost of living and quality of life can be found in many of the midwest cities without sacraficing the enjoyment of downtown living.

I have a question for anyone who would like to give their advice. I am interviewing this week for a position that is located downtown. If everything goes well, I will soon be looking to live downtown. What places would you recommend I check out? And keep in mind that this is not a CEO position, so preferably something mid-range in price that wouldn't break my bank account. I'd appreciate any input.

I wouldn't worry about the Penn tower being "depressing". With the right accents and lighting, it could end up being Indy's classiest tower.

I think you're exactly right, Gych. People are starting to realize that cost of living and quality of life can be found in many of the midwest cities without sacraficing the enjoyment of downtown living.

I have a question for anyone who would like to give their advice. I am interviewing this week for a position that is located downtown. If everything goes well, I will soon be looking to live downtown. What places would you recommend I check out? And keep in mind that this is not a CEO position, so preferably something mid-range in price that wouldn't break my bank account. I'd appreciate any input.
"mid-range" is a relative term. Would you please give an actual dollar amount? Also, info like whether you want to buy a fixer upper, or move into an established neighborhood would be helpful. Are you comfortable being an "urban pioneer"? If so, Holy Cross and some near northside neighborhoods would be good, as well as Fountain Square. If not, the choices become signifigantly easier but far more expensive.

Start your research at www.mibor.com

indyfiend, One Market Square is the obvious choice!!!! :)

has anyone ever been to the Eiteljorg (sp?) or State Museum? opinions?

i know indy is not in the top 10 of # of conventions, but is it in the top 15 or 20?

Thanks for the website, moochie. I'm actually looking to rent instead of buy, so I need to do some research on prices.

GT - I've been to the state museum, but haven't made it to the Eiteljorg yet. I enjoyed the state museum very much. It's also great having the IMAX connected to it. Any new updates on the proposed African American History Museum? That would be a great addition to the canal.

According to Brookings, Indy has seen a substantial decline in Conventions since 2000:

http://www.brookings.edu/metro/pubs/20050117_conventioncenters.pdf

Notice especially page 13 of 36. I am still up in the air on whether conventions are overrated when every city is in an arms race to build more convention space.

Report: Tourism is Growing in Indianapolis

InsideIndianaBusiness.com Report

12/8/2005 12:03:49 PM

ICVA Spokesman Bob Schultz says the top 20 conventions for next year are expected to pump $241 million into the central Indiana economy.

The Indianapolis Convention and Visitors Association (ICVA) is this morning announcing that tourism is on the rise in the Circle City.

The ICVA says its most recent tourism figures for 2004 show that the city increased its visitors by 2 million and provided more than 76,000 jobs. The association says getting the Indiana Stadium and convention center expansion project approved was one of the highlights for the city this year.

For 2006, ICVA says its top conventions will include the National FFA Convention and the NCAA Men's Final Four basketball tournament.

Source: Inside INdiana Business

Tourism in Indianapolis

In 2004, tourism in Indianapolis contributed

* 20 million visitors -- up from 18 million in 2003
* $3.27 billion in total spending -- up from $3.07 billion in 2003
* $1.86 billion in wages
* 76,246 jobs -- up from 73,800 in 2003
* $819 million in tax revenue

2006 Indianapolis Conventions

The National FFA Convention and the NCAA Men’s Final Four lead the list of top 20 conventions and special events coming to Indianapolis in 2006, based on direct visitor spending, booked by the Indianapolis Convention & Visitors Association, ICVA officials announced today.

These top 20 conventions and events will account for nearly 280,000 hotel room nights, draw 432,700 visitors and produce an estimated $241 million in direct visitor spending. In addition to the National FFA Convention in October and the Final Four in April, other highlights include the return of the Fire Department Instructors Conference, the Church of God’s 71st International General Assembly and Gen Con Gaming Fair.

Combined with leisure travelers, special and sporting events attendees and visiting friends and relatives, Indianapolis expects to attract more than 20 million visitors in 2006, keeping pace with recent visitor numbers provided by industry analyst DK Shifflet and Associates.

“The tourism industry continues to thrive in Indianapolis because we are able to offer the complete package: convenience, accessibility, great service and outstanding amenities,” said Bob Bedell, President and CEO of the ICVA. “Convention and meeting planners love coming to Indianapolis and we continue to draw leisure travelers in greater numbers in part because of our outstanding attractions, which continue to expand and improve. The result is significant benefit for the region and our 76,000 hospitality industry employees.”

Highlights of the 2006 convention and special events calendar include:

· The National FFA Convention, which had been in Louisville, Ky., begins the first of a seven-year stay in Indianapolis. The national convention will attract approximately 54,000 high school students and their adult leaders. The students are preparing for careers in the science, business and technology of agriculture. The convention also draws national leaders from the corporate, agribusiness and education sectors. It will generate an estimated $30 million in direct visitor spending.

· The NCAA Men’s Final Four is no stranger to Indianapolis, coming to the city for the fifth time overall and fourth time in the last 15 years. Although the National Semifinal and Championship games in the RCA Dome are sold out, fans and visitors can participate in a number of ancillary activities, including the interactive Hoop City at the Indiana Convention Center.

· The Fire Department Instructors Conference (FDIC) in April brings 25,000 fire and emergency services personnel to Indianapolis for advanced training. More than 700 exhibitors will demonstrate the latest products and services.

· The Church of God’s 71st International General Assembly is expected to attract 25,000 attendees in July. Ministers, laymen and their families will convene and leaders will be nominated for executive and departmental leadership posts. The biannual convention last took place in Indianapolis in 2002.

· Gen Con LLC, billed as the “best four days in gaming,” comes to Indianapolis for the fourth consecutive year in August. Now in its 239th year, Gen Con is the largest annual consumer sci-fi and adventure game convention in North America, attracting 25,000 enthusiasts who participate in inter-active game play, hobby-related events and meet celebrity guests.

· Dealer Expo 2006, which will be here in February, is the largest and most comprehensive trade-only event in the world for the aftermarket powersports industry. More than 21,000 are expected to attend the show which has been in Indianapolis annually since 1998.

To calculate the anticipated direct visitor spending figures for each convention, the ICVA utilizes the online calculator developed by the Destination Management Association International (DMAI) as a result of its Convention Expenditure and Impact Study. Dubbed "ExPact", short for "Expenditure Impact", the study surveyed 86 convention and visitor bureaus in the United States and Canada, event organizers from more than 1,000 events across the country, 12,920 convention delegates and 1,286 exhibiting companies. The figures gleaned from this survey produced expenditure averages for food and beverage, accommodations, sightseeing, merchandising purchasing and transportation used while in the host city, plus incidental costs accrued by convention delegates during their visit.

The ICVA’s mission is to advance Indianapolis tourism and economic growth. The total annual economic impact of tourism on the Indianapolis economy is $3.2 billion, which leads the way to 76,000 full-time equivalent positions in the hospitality industry*. For more information about Indianapolis and the ICVA, go to www.indy.org.

* Source: Economic Impact of Travel & Tourism in Indianapolis prepared by Global Insight in partnership with D.K. Shifflett & Associates, Ltd.

Source: Indianapolis Convention and Visitors Association


http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=16078

Hmm too seemingly contradictory reports....check out the Brookings study and you will see.

Does Indy have a good art museum? I am a big fan of art (all kinds) and will be in many of the midwest cities for business over the comming months. I always hear about the Chicago and Detroit museums, but never hear about art museums in other midwestern cities. Didnt know if other cities didnt have them, if they were small, or what the deal was. Anyway, just curious what Indianapolis had, as I would love to make a visit if you guys recommend it.

Does Indy have a good art museum?

Absolutely. In my travels I've been very impressed with the Indianapolis Museum of Art, especially since their massive expansion and renovation completed last year. Beautiful museum inside and out with a large and fairly high quality collection. And even if the collection isn't to your liking the museum grounds are magnificent.

My two hidden gems in terms of art museums in the midwest are Indianapolis and Cincinnati. They're the two that people haven't really heard of so you just get an idea based upon their city's size as to what they'll be like and then when you get there you're totally surprised and think to yourself that they should be more well known and/or be located in a larger city, if you know what I mean.

i am a little skeptical about the african american history museum b/c many, from what i hear, are not profitable. i think the one they are building in D.C., if it's not there already, should be it. they have enough high volume tourists, who are already in a history/museum mindset, to support it on a regular basis. cincinnati has a new one...not sure how it is doing. also it just seems like every city is thinking about building one.

Indy is already prominent in the African American community due to the success of Black Expo, so I think with that and the location, it would be a success. I, for one, hope it happens.

I cant wait to see a rendering. Where is Bose-McKinney currently located?

Wow...this is great :)

I quickly scanned a bunch of posts made earlier but I didn't read about a rendering of Penn. When is this expected? I just looked quick so I don't really know.

i am a little skeptical about the african american history museum b/c many, from what i hear, are not profitable. i think the one they are building in D.C., if it's not there already, should be it. they have enough high volume tourists, who are already in a history/museum mindset, to support it on a regular basis. cincinnati has a new one...not sure how it is doing. also it just seems like every city is thinking about building one.


Yeah, Louisville's African American History museum is set to open soon, in the historically black neighborhood of Russell just minutes west of downtown. I think they should be able to do fine, although I know they have had financing troubles.

It seems every city is building one, but i definitely think any city with over 100,000 blacks should build one, and Indy qualifies.

I go to Black Expo about every year, and the Black community in Indianapolis is definitely prominent. I was very excited to hear about the African American histoty museum in White River State Park, its location downtown is ideal, and as a city of 250,000 Blacks, we will be making a significant step. And actually there already is an African American history museum in Indianapolis, its at my old middle school :). Its adjacent to the Gym at Crispus Attucks Middle School, 1140 North Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Street downtown.

don't get me wrong, i would like to see it too but not just because

here is an article i found online from 2001: http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/08/04/loc_black_museums_gain.html

not sure where they are with the feasibility study 4-5 years later; nothing much came up when i did a search under AA history museums

random questions:

-is there a good pizza place downtown?

-rapid transit planning: does anyone think that Keystone @ the crossing should be the end of the line or at least the path for one of the north lines? i understand I-69 but they can add a HOV lane and call it a day.

is there a good pizza place downtown?

Oh my God yes! There is a place on Mass Ave that has the best pizza I've ever tasted. My friends in Indy have taken me there a few times (of course after the first time it has been at my request). Bazbeaux Pizza! (it's spelled something like that - it's pronounced bazbo).

Starve yourself before you go because you're going to need every inch of stomach space. A five topping thin crust medium pizza will weigh about fifteen pounds.

^^Blah, whats the obsession with Bazbeaux? That shit is way overrated. I never found a great pizza in Indy. Not many good trattorias either.

Never had Bazbeaux...It's hard to screw up pizza. I'd suggest a nice little trattoria by the name of Papa John's...exquisit. So is the Penn Tower pretty much a done deal? Are they just getting everything finalized? If someone with good sources like Moochie could give a percentage representing the actuality of this project happening, that'd be helpful. Also, how is One Market Square coming along? It's been a while since I've heard anything on that project. I believe someone mentioned they closed down their sales office which scared me.

Bringing up the African-American Museum in White (ironic) River Park, I think it'd be better suited near or on the Indiana Avenue (Ransom Place) corridor which is a historically black area. Isn't there something like a museum in the old Crispus Attucks high school? Off on a tangent now, I'm not sure how I feel about White River Park. I think it's a great park and offers a ton of cultural stuff to do, but I'm not sure about it's placement so close to the downtown core. It's like a suburban park and totally does not fit into Indy's street grid system. I thought they could have incorporated the city streets a little more into its design, or made it hug the White River closer and extend it south rather than extending out to the Indiana Government Center. Maybe I'd be convinced if dense development started to pop up around it so that it became more of an urban oasis. Any one else have thoughts on this?

Penn Tower is coming along nicely. Since it is proposed for the Wholesale District, I was able to ask some of my preservation planner friends about it (who work for IHPC) and they think it will happen, though I don't have the inside knowledge that Moochie has.

I have to agree about Bazbeaux being excellent...the quatro formaggio is superb. There used to be a place at the Harness Factory called Ah! Formaggio. It just up and closed one day, but I guess they have relocated somewhere on the north side. There food is EXCELLENT.

As for the Indy restaurant scene, there is a HUGE myth that we don't have good restaurants here. That's a load of crap. We may not have a 5-star (YET), but there are great local establishments, just not located at Circle Centre. You can't spend a weekend, a week, or even a month in the City and claim to "know" the restaurants. I discover hidden gems all the time.

since there are many pharmaceutical companies in Indy, what do you speculate it will do to Indy in 5-10 years? do you see the companies growing a lot, a little, etc.--they will need more admin./operations support? maybe one will grow so big that they need a 90-story bldg...LOL (just kidding).

Never had Bazbeaux...It's hard to screw up pizza. I'd suggest a nice little trattoria by the name of Papa John's...exquisit. So is the Penn Tower pretty much a done deal? Are they just getting everything finalized? If someone with good sources like Moochie could give a percentage representing the actuality of this project happening, that'd be helpful. Also, how is One Market Square coming along? It's been a while since I've heard anything on that project. I believe someone mentioned they closed down their sales office which scared me.

Bringing up the African-American Museum in White (ironic) River Park, I think it'd be better suited near or on the Indiana Avenue (Ransom Place) corridor which is a historically black area. Isn't there something like a museum in the old Crispus Attucks high school? Off on a tangent now, I'm not sure how I feel about White River Park. I think it's a great park and offers a ton of cultural stuff to do, but I'm not sure about it's placement so close to the downtown core. It's like a suburban park and totally does not fit into Indy's street grid system. I thought they could have incorporated the city streets a little more into its design, or made it hug the White River closer and extend it south rather than extending out to the Indiana Government Center. Maybe I'd be convinced if dense development started to pop up around it so that it became more of an urban oasis. Any one else have thoughts on this?

True, but I had several people in Indy tell me Bazbeuax (cant spell it) was among the best in the country, right up there with the best in the Chicago places. Then I tried it...it was about as good as Pizza Hut.

And Papa John. Yeah I hate that guy. He is anti downtown development in Louisville and keeps speaking against our arena. In the meantime, he has a sprawling corporate campus in the suburbs, and owns a $15 million Italian Villa complete with a lake and a 30 car garage in the Louisville suburb of Anchorage, KY. And he also owns about half the town of Anchorage too. Ive never seen such a good businessman serving such terrible food and being so anti development in the city (or core city) in which he resides.

Penn Tower is coming along nicely. Since it is proposed for the Wholesale District, I was able to ask some of my preservation planner friends about it (who work for IHPC) and they think it will happen, though I don't have the inside knowledge that Moochie has.

I have just a couple more tidbits of information. the Omega Building, pictured here next to the Hampton in the lower picture:

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=138129

Will be torn down except for the front part and the facade, which will be restored (and sandblasted hopefully) and used as the entrance for the Office portion of the building. This should satisfy the Historical concerns.

The hotel is planned to have a minimum of 250 rooms. This number will expand depending on demand. The city has stated it needs an additional 2000 rooms in the area because of the Convention Center expansion, so this could increase dramatically if no other large hotels are planned before construction begins.

So.. either this tower gets taller, or more hotel towers will be built I assume... Space is limited, so I'd think they'd have to build high right? Pure speculation on my part.

I'm sure that what the Hyatt does after Simon vacates it's offices plays into this. As far as I know, they haven't decided whether to make that space hotel rooms, or continue using it as office space... Anyone have any idea?

The original date for breaking ground was set for this October/November. This may have been wishful thinking. Groundbreaking will probably be pushed into early 2007. Not exactly surprising to have delays on a project of this complexity.

^^Blah, whats the obsession with Bazbeaux? That shit is way overrated. I never found a great pizza in Indy. Not many good trattorias either.

In six years neither have I.

I guess old "Papa John" never took any urban planning classes during his years at Ball State. :laugh: He did, however, work at Greeks in the BSU Village. Their pizza is the best I have ever had. Check it out if you're ever in good old Muncie, IN.

I love the idea of preserving the Omega building's facade. A good way of holding on to the past but still allowing progress.

I think pharmaceutical companies will always be important to Indy, especially with the new emphasis on life sciences. I only wish Lilly would have built their headquarters more vertical.

Hey I have a favor. On SSP can somebody request that One Market Square be drawn. I would but my account on there is having trouble. I'm sure everyone on this forum would like to see it added to the diagram. Thanks

since there are many pharmaceutical companies in Indy, what do you speculate it will do to Indy in 5-10 years? do you see the companies growing a lot, a little, etc.--they will need more admin./operations support? maybe one will grow so big that they need a 90-story bldg...LOL (just kidding).

What pharmaceutical company is in indy besides Lilly?

I guess old "Papa John" never took any urban planning classes during his years at Ball State. :laugh: He did, however, work at Greeks in the BSU Village. Their pizza is the best I have ever had. Check it out if you're ever in good old Muncie, IN.

I love the idea of preserving the Omega building's facade. A good way of holding on to the past but still allowing progress.

I think pharmaceutical companies will always be important to Indy, especially with the new emphasis on life sciences. I only wish Lilly would have built their headquarters more vertical.


Haha. Some of my friends from North Vernon went to school at BSU. I visited many times and had drunk pizza there often, and it was damn good. Maybe that was the place? Or maybe it was horrible pizza and I was just drunk.

Whole Foods Market in development OK'd for Nora location

INDIANAPOLIS -- Indiana soon may have its first Whole Foods Market, the upscale organic food store, following action Wednesday by the Metropolitan Development Commission. The 60,000-square-foot store is part of a development proposed by PK Capital on the northeast corner of 86th Street and Haverstick Road that also includes 31 townhomes, said Sylvia Trotter, commission president.

Whole Foods and developer Paul Kite of PK Capital could not be reached for comment.

The project was approved by a commission hearing examiner in December but ended up in front of the full commission after area residents appealed the decision.

"In our opinion, this is a total disrespect for the comprehensive plan and zoning ordinances," said Ruth Hayes of the Nora Northside Community Council, citing the area's residential nature. The group may appeal to the City-County Council, she said, adding that the group would welcome the store if it locates in a commercial area.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601190395


I'm so happy those idiot Nora Nimbys were defeated. I love how they don't consider 86th street a commercial area.

to respond to moochie's post: the stage is set for something (dary I say) 'visionary'...let's see what's next....


km1410, i didn't say all Fortune 500...there are several others like Elan, Covance, Integrity, Biogel, etc.

INDIANAPOLIS' NEW AIRPORT TERMINAL
Sights for soaring eyes
Airport to settle Friday on 16 works of art

One of the largest artworks that will grace the new terminal at Indianapolis International Airport was conceived on a farm in the remote mountains of central Pennsylvania.

At a mill-turned-studio along the banks of the Susquehanna River, artist Rob Fisher, Bellefonte, Pa., sketched out "JetStream," a floating series of aluminum sculptures that mimic a school of fish in the air.

Fisher's creation anchors a collection of 16 works -- winnowed from 550 entries -- that airport officials are expected to approve Friday to adorn the interior and exterior of the yet-to-be-built airport terminal and the parking garage.

The $3.8 million project would put Indianapolis in the company of other cities across the nation that are advancing their reputations in arts and culture by using their most visible gateways as showcases.

"This is one of the most impressive, organized and defined art programs I've seen," said the 66-year-old Fisher, whose artwork resides at Philadelphia International Airport and other public spaces. "They're going to get one magnificent airport out of this. I think it's going to set the standard."

The airport art will reside inside and outside the $1.07 billion midfield terminal, which is scheduled to be completed in 2008, and will be seen by millions of air travelers each year.

Bronze benches shaped and painted like luggage. Large murals made of colored glass. Glass tiles depicting the Indiana landscape, and terrazzo floors representing Indiana's state song and its rich tradition in amateur sports.

"We haven't really had a true art program up to now," said Lacy M. Johnson, president of the Indianapolis Airport Authority. "We've tried to incorporate as much of an Indiana theme as possible."

Officials working on the terminal project point out that airport terminals serve as prime vehicles for public art given their immense square footage and foot traffic. The new terminal will incorporate nearly 22 football fields of space and is expected to serve more than 10 million passengers annually.

And travelers -- especially in this era of long security lines -- often spend large chunks of time lingering in airport terminals.

Airport officials from Denver to Orlando, Fla., have sought to boost their cities' reputations in arts and culture by using their most visible gateways as permanent showcases.

Airport planners in Indianapolis expect to spread the works throughout the terminal so travelers are offered a jolt of creativity at each stage of their journey, said designers Julia Moore and Ted Givens of Blackburn Architects in Indianapolis, which has coordinated the art effort.

"We're trying to think in advance where people are going to be spending their time," Moore said. "Then we're asking, 'What are they going to be looking at?' "

Among the works:
• On the pedestrian bridge from the terminal's parking lot, travelers will walk under a field of interactive lights called "Electroland" that will follow them as they go. The piece is by artists Cameron McNall and Damon Seeley, Los Angeles.

• In the ticketing hall, patrons will see two large limestone carvings by Bloomington artist Dale Enochs that represent the four elements: air, earth, fire and water.

• At the terminal's central meeting area, passengers will gaze up at Fisher's abstract "JetStream" piece and down at a circle design made of tile that conveys the phases of the moon by Lynn Basa, Chicago.

• Separate murals by two artists -- Nhat Tran, Indianapolis, and Dixie Friend Gay, Houston -- will hang for viewing by passengers waiting at security checkpoints.

The 42-year-old Tran plans to use a special Asian lacquer to create a mural that will depict various forces of nature.

"Each person has a personal voice," she said. "This is my voice, and I hope that is my contribution to our community."

Other works include large glass murals in the concourses by Martin Donlin, East Sussex, England; a three-dimensional abstract mural by noted Indianapolis artist James Wille Faust near the escalators; and bronze luggagelike sculptures in the baggage claim area by Ron Baron, New York.

Planners also are hashing out separate artworks for the parking garage and the approach to the terminal. Display cases in the ticketing hall will show temporary exhibits.

"We're hoping this is an art program that will both be appreciated and coordinated with the structure," said John Kish, director of the terminal project.

Indianapolis' push is one of the latest among airports both large and small that have sought to add a creative flair to their terminals by housing rotating exhibits or spending millions on bigger pieces.

Denver International, for instance, keeps large, temporary exhibits in three of its concourses. Kansas City International recently spent $270,000 to install a 35-foot-high aluminum sculpture near the airport's economy parking lot.

Orlando International is adorned with more than 40 paintings, sculptures and other works, while the airport in Albany, N.Y., has a 2,500-square-foot art gallery.

Attempts to place art in the terminal here have taken more than a year to come to fruition.

A panel of national and local art experts whittled about 550 entries from around the world to about three dozen. Out of that smaller group came the 15 final artists. Hammond artist Tom Torluemke was the lone winner with two works: separate terrazzo floors.

Fisher, who spent months working on his "JetStream" concept, said his inclusion in the terminal project is a privilege.

"It's exhilarating to think of the millions of people that are going to look at it," he said. "At the same time, it also can weigh on you like a pyramid.

"Airports are about transportation. I hope my piece also transports people."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601180427

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20060118&Kategori=NEWS01&Lopenr=601180396&Ref=AR&Q=80&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&Site=BG&Q=80&Border=0&Title=0



Varied works celebrate Indiana, flight

"Baggage Claim"
Bronze benches molded and painted in the form of vintage luggage. Located in baggage claim.

Artist: Ron Baron, New York.

Estimated cost: $150,500.

"The Great Circle Route"
Stone and glass floor that depicts the phases of the moon and other designs. Located in Civic Plaza.

Artist: Lynn Basa, Chicago (formerly of Bloomington).

Estimated cost: $235,000.

"Flight Wave"
Glass chevrons that will mimic birds in flight and emit different colors of light when the sun shines through them. Located just past the security checkpoints.

Artist: Arlon Bayliss, Anderson.

Estimated cost: $100,500.

"People/Land/Sky Dream Windows"
Abstract glass murals that depict poetry and other inspirational musings. Located in the terminal concourses.

Artist: Martin Donlin, East Sussex, England.

Estimated cost: $572,000.

"Electroland"
An interactive field of lights on the ceiling that follow pedestrians as they walk. Located on the pedestrian bridge between the parking garage and terminal.

Artists: Cameron McNall and Damon Seeley, Los Angeles.

Estimated cost: $401,000.

"Elemental Indiana"
Limestone carvings that show the four elements: air, earth, fire and water. Located in the ticketing hall.

Artist: Dale Enochs, Bloomington.

Estimated cost: $96,000.

Untitled
Abstract three-dimensional mural depicting many shapes and colors. Located above the escalators leading from the gates to baggage claim.

Artist: James Wille Faust, Indianapolis.

Estimated cost: $145,500.

"JetStream"
Collection of floating aluminum sculptures meant to mimic a school of fish, or clouds.

Artist: Rob Fisher, Bellefonte, Pa.

Estimated cost: $250,500.

"Fields in Season"
Six mosaics made up of tiny glass tiles that show different Indiana landscapes. Located in the terminal concourses.

Artist: Ann Gardner, Seattle.

Estimated cost: $120,000.

"Autumn Prairie Morning"
Mosaic mural depicting Indiana's native prairie. Located at the security checkpoints.

Artist: Dixie Friend Gay, Houston.

Estimated cost: $101,500.

"The Cardinal Points"
Glass wall showing images of a cardinal, Indiana's state bird, as well as the grid layout of Indianapolis. Located just after the security checkpoints.

Artists: Stuart Keeler and Michael Machnic, Chicago.

Estimated cost: $105,500.

"On the Tip of Our Wings"
Lacquer panels that portray various forces in nature. Located at the security checkpoints.

Artist: Nhat Tran, Indianapolis.

Estimated cost: $97,000.

"The Glory of Sports in Indianapolis" and "A Work of Heart"
Two terrazzo floors: One depicts Indianapolis' sports traditions; the other combines references of Indiana's state song, "On the Banks of the Wabash, Far Away," with the book "The Little Prince." Both are located in the plazas that join the terminal and concourses.

Artist: Tom Torluemke, Hammond.

Estimated cost: $149,500 (total for both works).

"Cardinalis"
A freestanding sculpture made out of a real airplane wing that serves as an homage to Orville and Wilbur Wright (Wilbur was born near Millville.). Located in the South Terminal Garden.

Artist: John van Alstine, Wells, N.Y.

Estimated cost: $170,500.

"Baggage Follies"
Train-station-style flip signs that show animations of passengers engaging in typical travel activities. Located in baggage claim.

Artist: Janet Zweig, New York.

Estimated cost: $150,500.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006601180396

km1410, i didn't say all Fortune 500...there are several others like Elan, Covance, Integrity, Biogel, etc.

sorry, thought you meant that were headquartered here.

What is going on with the Block?

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=176017

"In February 2003 the city of Indianapolis approved the developer's petition to add a 14-floor tower above the existing building. This addition is contingent on demand, and no construction plans have been released."

Wow.. another 24 story residential just off the circle.. I had no idea. Does anyone what the status of this project is?

What is going on with the Block?

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=176017

"In February 2003 the city of Indianapolis approved the developer's petition to add a 14-floor tower above the existing building. This addition is contingent on demand, and no construction plans have been released."

Wow.. another 24 story residential just off the circle.. I had no idea. Does anyone what the status of this project is?

I found this post from cwilson from last March...

"The Block is full (but with nearly all apartments, people come and go often), but the Tower portion was denied by the City. It wouldn't have matched architecturally with the existing building."

I found this post from cwilson from last March...

"The Block is full (but with nearly all apartments, people come and go often), but the Tower portion was denied by the City. It wouldn't have matched architecturally with the existing building."
Hmm.. I'm surprised they didn't just redesign it then.

I'm all for historic preservation, but can somebody tell me if the Omega Building is actually worth saving? If so, why are we saving only the facade? As far as I know, this practice is called facadism and is generally frowned upon in the historic preservation and planning fields.

In my opinion, Indianapolis needs a few modern buildings that are pure, unencumbered architectural expressions. The Emmis Building is the worst example of an impure expression. The building integrates the historic Indianapolis News Building and is supposed to look like three or four separate buildings. This building is totally confused and has no identity of its own. Now the News Building’s facade was certainly worth saving, but the modern section of the building should have had unified massing and a cohesive facade. The worst part of the Emmis building is that it detracts from Circle's collection of ten-story, City Beautiful era buildings.

I'm all for historic preservation, but can somebody tell me if the Omega Building is actually worth saving? If so, why are we saving only the facade? As far as I know, this practice is called facadism and is generally frowned upon in the historic preservation and planning fields.

In my opinion, Indianapolis needs a few modern buildings that are pure, unencumbered architectural expressions. The Emmis Building is the worst example of an impure expression. The building integrates the historic Indianapolis News Building and is supposed to look like three or four separate buildings. This building is totally confused and has no identity of its own. Now the News Building’s facade was certainly worth saving, but the modern section of the building should have had unified massing and a cohesive facade. The worst part of the Emmis building is that it detracts from Circle's collection of ten-story, City Beautiful era buildings.

The Omega building is a 3 story structure. The first 50 feet deep are suitable for office or retail, and the remainder is a squat brick box that stretches for half a city clock, has no windows, and has never been used for more than storage and warehousing. I think the Omega building is actually considered to be two buildings, the front part, and the warehouse.

So really, the Omega building has never been much more than a nice facade with a large storage area attached. Simon tried to build on this property, and was turned down because they wanted to demolish the Omega building. We all know what happened with that. http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=200976

At any rate, I don't think this will be "facadism". This won't be like Circle Center Mall where just the facade is implanted onto a different structure. The Omega building will remain a three story with nothing towering above it. there will be some structure behind it, but the integrity of the building will remain intact. Kind of like the shorter part of the Conrad on Washington street. http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=163137
Zoom in on the top picture, and look at the 4 story structure with the overhang.

Frankly, I don't know what criteria has been used to preserve the Omega building. Perhaps it has historical signifigance, or perhaps it's just old. At any rate, Indy has such a horrible history of destroying it's historic structures that I'm glad that perhaps things are a little stricter than is necessary now. We've lost so much...

Am I the only one who could give a rats ass about Whole Foods? We arleady have Trader Joes, Wild Oats, and host of other independent "specialty grocers" on the northside that are identical to this. Why not bring in something...unique? As for NORA, they are Nazis I tell you :) Seriously, I have have just been floored by their response and inability to work with the developers for this site. It is across the street from Keystone at the Crossing, for crying out-loud!

As for the reference to the Comprehensive Plan, well, if the neighborhood groups would stop hijacking the 2000 update (yes, now already 6 years old and not approved) they would see that the new recommendation matches what was originally approved. However, McANA (Marion County Alliance of Neighborhood Associations) was given an inch of authority and they took a mile. The whole comp plan process in Indy is a joke. Hence the reason why the Mayor stopped meeting with them on a regular basis.

The Airport is coming along nicely. A billion dollar project that is quietly being constructed, with not too much fanfare!

I am all for saving facades of buildings. I think that it does a lot for the downtown.

Hotels expanding with convention center

Mary Milz/Eyewitness News

Indianapolis, January 19 - With construction of the new stadium well underway, plans for the convention center expansion will soon take shape. The plan includes up to 1,000 more hotel rooms, either through expanding an existing hotel, or building a new one. The city's leaving that decision to developers.

"We're not running around flashing cash and saying build a hotel, we're waiting for people to come to us and say, this is what we'd like to do," said Mayor Bart Peterson.

The Omni's Phil Ray says his hotel is definitely game and exploring its options.

"It's millions and millions of dollars. We know there's a lot of interest, it's just a matter of will it work out and for who," said Bob Schulz of the Convention and Visitors Association.

When it comes to location, Pan Am Plaza is often referred to as the most logical choice since it sits right across the street from the future expansion. The space includes two skating rinks and a 12-story office building, which houses the Indiana Sports Corporation among others.

Convention officials say proximity is key that the hotel must be part of the larger package. "All development is deliberate. It's not just the hotel rooms, but the meeting space, the food and beverage area and the parking," said Schulz.

But with the property divided among three separate owners it gets complicated.

The state parking garage to the northwest of the convention center is another option mentioned by developers.


This was on the news last night. The piece on the news was better than this article, but you get the point. Again, as we have discussed numerous times, the new hotel would have to go up, instead of out on Pan Am Plaza. I am sure the Hyatt will expand into vacated Simon space, but a hotel at Pan Am is almost a fore-gone conclusion. For it to be 1,000 rooms, on a site similar in size to the Conrad, it would have to be quite tall. The Conrad is at 23 stories with 240 rooms. I am guessing that this 1,000-roomer would be 40-50 stories, when you include parking, meeting space, etc.

I am pleased that Penn Tower is coming along. By 2010, Indy will have at least 3 new towers over 30 stories, which can equate to roughly 400 feet. For us, since we only have about 5 towers above that height, that is good.

I have to agree about Bazbeaux being excellent...the quatro formaggio is superb. There used to be a place at the Harness Factory called Ah! Formaggio. It just up and closed one day, but I guess they have relocated somewhere on the north side. There food is EXCELLENT.

As for the Indy restaurant scene, there is a HUGE myth that we don't have good restaurants here. That's a load of crap. We may not have a 5-star (YET), but there are great local establishments, just not located at Circle Centre. You can't spend a weekend, a week, or even a month in the City and claim to "know" the restaurants. I discover hidden gems all the time.

I'm going to go ahead and agree with gych that Bazbeaux is extremely overrated. Eh! Formaggio was excellent -- certainly the closest to true New York style pizza in Indianapolis -- and I was very sad to see it go. I didn't realize they had relocated, but it looks like they're at 5510 Lafayette Rd. now. I'll have to head up there to see if it's as good as it was when they were on Georgia. Seems like that location should have been a gold mine for a pizza place, right across the street from Conseco for pre- and post-Pacer game eats as well as late-night night food for bar-hoppers.

There's a relatively new (<6mo) pizza place on Pennsylvania across from the library construction called Datsa Pizza. I've heard good things but haven't checked it out myself.

http://www.datsapizza.com/

Again, as we have discussed numerous times, the new hotel would have to go up, instead of out on Pan Am Plaza. I am sure the Hyatt will expand into vacated Simon space, but a hotel at Pan Am is almost a fore-gone conclusion. For it to be 1,000 rooms, on a site similar in size to the Conrad, it would have to be quite tall. The Conrad is at 23 stories with 240 rooms. I am guessing that this 1,000-roomer would be 40-50 stories, when you include parking, meeting space, etc.
If I'm not mistaken, this would also be in an historic area right? What type of tower would be permissable there?

Am I the only one who could give a rats ass about Whole Foods? We arleady have Trader Joes, Wild Oats, and host of other independent "specialty grocers" on the northside that are identical to this. Why not bring in something...unique? As for NORA, they are Nazis I tell you :) Seriously, I have have just been floored by their response and inability to work with the developers for this site. It is across the street from Keystone at the Crossing, for crying out-loud!

As for the reference to the Comprehensive Plan, well, if the neighborhood groups would stop hijacking the 2000 update (yes, now already 6 years old and not approved) they would see that the new recommendation matches what was originally approved. However, McANA (Marion County Alliance of Neighborhood Associations) was given an inch of authority and they took a mile. The whole comp plan process in Indy is a joke. Hence the reason why the Mayor stopped meeting with them on a regular basis.

The Airport is coming along nicely. A billion dollar project that is quietly being constructed, with not too much fanfare!

I am all for saving facades of buildings. I think that it does a lot for the downtown.

IMO Whole Foods is miles better than Trader Joe's. And certainly much better than Wild Oats. I am a regular at Whole Foods and couldnt do without it. Whole Foods must be having leasing problems or else are overloooking the Indy market. I would expect to see one somewhere in Carmel at the very least sometime soon.

In the few months I lived there, I cant tell you how much NORA pissed me off. What a group of losers. If these poeple want peace and quiet and no "traffic" why dont they move way out to Noblesville or something. Keystone at the Crossing is a major suburban office and retail strip. Midrise or even dense low rise condos should be a NO BRAINER for that area.

One thing I will say about groups like NORA though...they do actually a decent job of neighborhood preservation and keeping developers from destroying area. But they must realize the difference between a good plan and a bad one. One thing that irked me while living in Chicago was the amount of historic structures they just flat out bulldozed for newer condo buildings, without anyone saying a word. I like the more preserveation minded folks in Indy, and here in Louisville, but I also hate when they go against good, urban projects.

Am I the only one who could give a rats ass about Whole Foods? We arleady have Trader Joes, Wild Oats, and host of other independent "specialty grocers" on the northside that are identical to this. Why not bring in something...unique? As for NORA, they are Nazis I tell you :) Seriously, I have have just been floored by their response and inability to work with the developers for this site. It is across the street from Keystone at the Crossing, for crying out-loud!

As for the reference to the Comprehensive Plan, well, if the neighborhood groups would stop hijacking the 2000 update (yes, now already 6 years old and not approved) they would see that the new recommendation matches what was originally approved. However, McANA (Marion County Alliance of Neighborhood Associations) was given an inch of authority and they took a mile. The whole comp plan process in Indy is a joke. Hence the reason why the Mayor stopped meeting with them on a regular basis.

The Airport is coming along nicely. A billion dollar project that is quietly being constructed, with not too much fanfare!

I am all for saving facades of buildings. I think that it does a lot for the downtown.
Been to Whole foods. Been to Trader Joes. Been to Wild Oats. Don't give a flying fuck about any of them.

indianapolis is really becoming a regional hub for these natural health supermarkets. i was reading the indianapolis business journal online and came across this


Sunflower Market eyes downtown

The team that flew down from Minneapolis to open the new Sunflower Market in Broad Ripple may end up getting to know the city pretty well.

The grand opening has gone so well that Minneapolis-based Supervalu, the store’s parent company, would like to open as many as four additional stores here in the next two years.

“We have far exceeded what we thought we were going to be doing in terms of volume and customers,” said John Sturm, director of Sunflower Market. “Because of the early success here … the company is interested in new sites here and elsewhere.”

He thinks the store’s focus on affordable organic produce fills a niche left wide open in Indianapolis and across the Midwest. That’s why local shoppers soon won’t be the only ones testing the firmness of the company’s tomatoes.

Although the Broad Ripple location is the first nationwide, Sunflower Markets will soon open stores in Chicago and Columbus, Ohio. Sturm hasn’t narrowed down where the new Indianapolis stores will be, but patrons have resoundingly asked him to consider downtown. An urban store fits with the company’s blueprint, Sturm said, but he’s worried there might not be enough people downtown to keep the lettuce from going bad. “The only concern with downtown is whether there are enough people [living downtown to shop at it],” Sturm said. The company is also looking for locations on the north side, he said.

African-American museum pushes back opening date
Group starts public fund-raising campaign Feb. 4

Civic leaders announced in 2004 they hoped to raise $50 million to build the Indiana Museum of African American History in White River State Park by 2008.

On the eve of the museum’s first public fund-raiser—a black-tie dinner at the downtown Westin Hotel on Feb. 4—officials acknowledge plans have changed for the 120,000-square-foot building.

In 2004, a feasibility study, paid for with $800,000 in seed money raised from groups including Lilly Endowment Inc., showed the aggressive fund-raising and construction schedule was achievable.

“We’re not certain that information is accurate today,” said Rita Organ, the museum’s executive director. “We’re … trying to figure out what’s realistic.”

Organ said the museum got ahead of itself partly out of respect for Rev. Charles Williams, who passed away in 2004 and co-founded the project with Rep. William Crawford, D–Indianapolis.

“When Rev. Williams was diagnosed with prostate cancer, [organizers] rushed so he could see something tangible before he died,” Organ said.

Organ said it’s too early to tell if the original vision for the project might change. What’s certain is that the doors won’t be open before 2010 and earthmovers won’t be tilling dirt sooner than 2008. And the price tag is now $60 million. The original estimate didn’t include a parking garage.

Nonetheless, Organ is optimistic.

“It’s a very ambitious plan,” she said, “but I believe it’s going to happen.”

She doesn’t make the statement lightly.

Organ previously served as director of exhibits and collections at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center in Cincinnati, a museum that undertook a massive, five-year, $110 million capital campaign before opening its doors in 2004.

Some predict her job here will be at least as tough. Local fund-raising consultant Mike Laudick, principal of Laudick Brown & Associates, said Organ will need three to five years to reach her $60 million goal here.

And it won’t be easy.

“There have been a lot of capital campaigns in Indianapolis recently,” he said. “The [Indianapolis Museum of Art] had a large one. The Indianapolis library had one; several other arts groups in town have had multimillion-dollar campaigns.” The key for Organ, Laudick said, is educating the public about the value of the museum—something that takes years. Dr. Lawrence Pijeaux, president of the Association of African American Museums, agreed.
Pijeaux is also president of the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute, an organization he said has found it “a little easier to find broad-based funding” now that it’s been around 13 years.

Broad-based funding in Indianapolis may be difficult. The Freedom Center got 40 percent of its funding from public sources, but the mayor and governor here have yet to get out the checkbook.

“There is at least the expectation that we will have support from the public sector,” said Alpha Blackburn, who leads the museum’s board of directors.

The museum has exclusive rights to develop the parcel between the NCAA Hall of Champions and National Institute for Fitness and Sports until May 2008. If it hasn’t shown “clear intent” to develop the property by then, White River State Park officials can find a new developer for the tract, which is the last piece of the park open for development.

Park officials, however, are in no hurry to find a new developer, said Bob Whitt, the park’s executive director. They remain hopeful the museum will be a success.

So does Blackburn.

“A project of this size takes a while to gather the momentum that is certainly going to be required for the project to continue.”

Call the museum at 636-9200 for dinner reservations.

http://tampa.ibj.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=IBJ/2006/01/23/9/Img/Pc0090200.jpg

Sunflower Market, just in case people aren't aware, is owned by SuperValue of Eden Prairie, MN, the owners of Cub Foods who left our market a few years ago. Minneapolis-St Paul is the land of urban organic grocery co-ops. Indy hardly has any. It always seems to be a bit behind in the progressive movements.

By the way, an acquaintance of mine works for SuperValue and he says that they are so big that Wal-Mart orders their Campbell's soup (and other Campbell's products) from SuperValue rather than from Campbells themselves because SuperValue gets the best wholesale prices of anybody and it is more cost-effective to buy Campbells from SuperValue than from Campbells themselves. It shows you how giant and powerful they are!

Anyway, I'm glad Indy is their first market. Do we get a medal for that? Do we get to keep Marsh?

The piece on the news was better than this article, but you get the point. Again, as we have discussed numerous times, the new hotel would have to go up, instead of out on Pan Am Plaza. I am sure the Hyatt will expand into vacated Simon space, but a hotel at Pan Am is almost a fore-gone conclusion. For it to be 1,000 rooms, on a site similar in size to the Conrad, it would have to be quite tall. The Conrad is at 23 stories with 240 rooms. I am guessing that this 1,000-roomer would be 40-50 stories, when you include parking, meeting space, etc.

My question is where on the Pan Am Plaza would the footprint of this tower most likely be? The skating rinks will have to stay to keep the academy there. How much of that nice plaza would have to be sacrificed I wonder? I imagine that the good sitelines of Union Station will need to be preserved.... so I'd guess this tower would have a very small footprint on the south central part of the block, possibly with parking entrance from the west to the south of the skating rink. Such a small footprint would make a very tall tower indeed.

Anyone else care to speculate?

http://www.oingyboingy.com/images/panam.JPG

I think something would have to be done with the street to the south of the plaza. Either building over it, or cutting into the public space in front of the Holiday Inn-Union Station. It should be built even with Union Station to the right(east), and keep the bulk of Pan Am Plaza intact. I havent visited the Plaza too often, but it is one of my favorite spaces downtown. With an expanded convention center and a new hotel there, I hope it can be reconstructed to be a little more inviting.

so a bldg on Pennsylvania is out of the question for J. Allen et al or another developer is looking @ Pan Am site?

no one in particular, just the City pushing this site for a 1,000+ room hotel as it is across form the Convention Center.

so a bldg on Pennsylvania is out of the question for J. Allen et al or another developer is looking @ Pan Am site?
The Penn tower is not in jeopardy. However, it's eventual height will be affected by the projected number of available hotel rooms in the area by the time ground is broken late this year to early next year.

From what I gather, the city has basically asked any hotel who's interested to build a thousand room hotel as close as possible to the Convention Center expansion. The most likely place would be on or near Pan Am Plaza. With such strict space limitations, a hotel that large would have to build very high, possibly 40-60 stories.

The Penn tower is not in jeopardy. However, it's eventual height will be affected by the projected number of available hotel rooms in the area by the time ground is broken late this year to early next year.

From what I gather, the city has basically asked any hotel who's interested to build a thousand room hotel as close as possible to the Convention Center expansion. The most likely place would be on or near Pan Am Plaza. With such strict space limitations, a hotel that large would have to build very high, possibly 40-60 stories.
Yes, it will have some bearing, but in the convention business, a top-tier city is required to have at least one hotel that has 1,000 rooms. So, we could see 5 hotels go up before this one, and the city would still need a single hotel with 1,000 rooms.

Indianapolis, January 24 - By now most of us have seen the layout of the new stadium in terms of football games. But the new facility will also be a basketball venue.

In essence, the new stadium can be turned into a 70,000 seat basketball arena.

From football to conventions to the Final Four, the new Indiana Stadium is designed to be versatile.

The Stadium Authority, during Tuesday's meeting, saw how the building will look when set up for NCAA basketball.

Sue Donohoe of the NCAA says it can become one of the largest arena's in the country. "We can take building from 70,000 seat stadium to 35,000 seat stadium. That's not just important for men and women's basketball, it is important for all NCAA championships."

There is another key factor. The design puts center court in the center of the floor making the Indiana Stadium the first multi-use venue to do so.

Bryan Trubey with HKS Architects says that's good news for fans. "With the center court arrangement all seating stays focused on the same point."

And seating in the bowl will be steeper than any other venue. Trubey says the stadium also features large state of the art video boards in two corners "that really puts all the seats in close proximity to the huge video messages."

There is another important plus to the NCAA and stadium operator. There is a large amount of backstage space for loading, storage, media staging and team lockers.

And unlike the RCA Dome, the new stadium, set on a diagonal, will have four main entrances, plus plazas at each corner for collegiate fans to gather and show their pride.

There are some new figures in on the stadium tax. The new food and beverage tax implemented to help pay for the new stadium is not bringing in as much revenue as expected, at least not in Marion County.

State finance officials say in the four months since the tax took effect, Marion County is $800,000 short of projections.

Marion County and six other counties adopted the one-percent tax last summer. While the tax is new to the doughnut counties, Marion County has had a food and beverage tax on the books for 20 years. In July it went from one to two percent to help with the stadium.

While the Marion County tax is falling short of projections, most of the other counties brought in significantly more than projected. The state has also locked in long-term financing at a rate of 4.23 percent, less than expected and already saving the state roughly a million dollars in interest.

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The basketball court will be in the center of the stadium floor, a first for multi-use venues.



I must say that Indy does not "screw" around when it comes to big-ticket sports venues. With the Fieldhouse the top-ranked baskeball arena in the US, could the Stadium be a best of the best when completed?

Yes, it will have some bearing, but in the convention business, a top-tier city is required to have at least one hotel that has 1,000 rooms. So, we could see 5 hotels go up before this one, and the city would still need a single hotel with 1,000 rooms.

Indy was supposed to get a 1,000 room hotel back in the 90s, but good ol Steve Goldsmith picked the Mariott project over the others because if you added up all the Mariott rooms in downtown they added up to over 1,000 rooms and he thought that would be the same as a single 1,000 room hotel. :weird:

With Simon leaving National City Center, I'm sure Hyatt will expand into the vacated space. That will probably take the Hyatt close to 1,000 rooms. As for the new 1,000 room hotel, I wonder what brand it would be? The only name I can think of thats not downtown is Sheraton. Or maybe Mariott might change their current hotel to a Renaissance and build a new hotel.

As for the location of the new hotel, I always thought they would demolish the tower at Pan Am Plaza and build the hotel there.

I wanted to share a few renderings that I created with the 3D design program, Sketch Up soon after Market Square Partners were chosen to redevelop the Market Square site. I created this model mainly to experiment with the software, but also to communicate some of my ideas to the planners and developers. I updated the towers in the model to match the official plans with the second revision of the developers plans.

There were six main ideas that I wanted to communicate with this model. The first idea was that the downtown core should be stretched toward East Street. The second idea was that all of Alexander Ralstons original streets and alleys should be respected. The third idea was that a traffic circle should be created at the intersection of Market and East Streets. The fourth was that retail should be focused on Market Street, not a galleria or pedestrian mall. The fifth was that a minimum height and setback requirement be set up between the 8th and 12th floors to allow for visual continuity. The sixth was that the second tower should be moved to the east in order provide for better views and a better skyline impact.

http://static.flickr.com/20/70622469_c75755d6e9_o.jpg
Possible traffic circles on Market at the East and West Street intersections

http://static.flickr.com/20/70622470_ad02e1adde_o.jpg
Close up of Market Square redevelopment area and traffic circle

http://static.flickr.com/31/91318013_7809fcbfcd_o.jpg
My Photo Paint revision of MSPs original site plan. This type of plan would have allowed multiple developers to participate within a set of design guidelines rather than one developer controlling the entire site.

http://static.flickr.com/34/70622467_7fad17796f_o.jpg
Arial view from East St. looking toward Monument Circle and West St.

http://static.flickr.com/34/91316602_9017310d68_o.jpg
Viewing the redevelopment area from the south, looking north


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Figure describing minimum height and setback requirements

http://static.flickr.com/35/70619995_4404eb0fe4_o.jpg
A 30 story building with a setback at the ninth floor& Go easy on me, Im not an architect... I like the final MSP tower better than mine. The height of the finished tower will be very close to the one that I envisioned, however, its lowest setback on Market Street will be on the 3rd or 4th floor, not between the 8th or 12th floor.

http://static.flickr.com/20/70619997_697a2bee17_o.jpg
Street lamps surrounding redevelopment, to be used later in a comprehensive lighting project

http://static.flickr.com/20/70619994_104d520d5c_o.jpg
Another view of the redevelopment area.

I would love to hear any comments.

I thank Indy is a great city much better than anything in the shit belt (I mean rust belt) Thanks for the thread guys.

I wanted to share a few renderings that I created with the 3D design program, Sketch Up soon after Market Square Partners were chosen to redevelop the Market Square site. I created this model mainly to experiment with the software, but also to communicate some of my ideas to the planners and developers. I updated the towers in the model to match the official plans with the second revision of the developers plans.

There were six main ideas that I wanted to communicate with this model. The first idea was that the downtown core should be stretched toward East Street. The second idea was that all of Alexander Ralstons original streets and alleys should be respected. The third idea was that a traffic circle should be created at the intersection of Market and East Streets. The fourth was that retail should be focused on Market Street, not a galleria or pedestrian mall. The fifth was that a minimum height and setback requirement be set up between the 8th and 12th floors to allow for visual continuity. The sixth was that the second tower should be moved to the east in order provide for better views and a better skyline impact.


I'm not sure I understand the need for the roundabout at East street.. Why not do as originally proposed and stretch the core all the way to College ave and the railroad underpass? Putting a roundabout at East street may have the effect of being a psychological barrier for the rest of East Market street, which is why the ramps are being moved to Washington this September in the first place. Why not have a nice roundabout with landscaping at College?

Also, the land that you've got tower 2 located is not actually owned by Market Square... partners... or whoever it is that is building One Market square. they own the parking garage to the north, and the vacant former Bank One 2 story adjacent to the parking lot, but they do not own the parking lot.

closed, continue here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=7156411#post7156411