Just thought I'd share my vision for Copenhagen.

The old B & W shipyard would be the prime location for a supertall in Copenhagen. Located by the entrance of the harbour and away from the old city this would be a stunning place to build a tall and beautiful skyscraper. The infrastructure would definately need a lift, but I think that this would be THE place to do it.

Furthermore, it would look good with one tall and beautiful building on each side of Oresund (TT being the other one). They would compliment eachother like 2IFC (Central District) and the future International Commerce Centre (Kowloon) in Hong Kong.

What do you think and what are your visions for our capital?

Peter K

Just thought I'd share my vision for Copenhagen.

What do you think and what are your visions for our capital?

Peter K
Okay, here is a few of my thoughts...Sorry it gets a bit long, but we are on a topic, near and dear to my heart....

Building tall

I have heard the idea before, and i know some politicians like the idea of building several tall buildings on places like Refshaleøen, and places like that. It seams like a perfect fit, as the place is pretty empty, and the only company out there is the worlds largest indoor golfcourse....
Idd also like to see more tall building go up in other parts of the city...Outer øster or vesterbro, the harbour areas, or Valby...And of couse Ørestad. Drop the stupid limmitation.

Infrastructure
Infrastructure, sure. But if they ever get around to building the new harbourtunnel -- and more and more politicians are saying its a good idea, even the rich once from Østerbro -- it might feature a stop at Refshaleøen, to allow for cars to get on and off.

The harbour tunnel is in my mind a great idea. especialy, if you do it right. That means building it long enough, to make sure it goes from outer Østerbro, and almost to Avedøre, with plenty of stops in between. It also like to see that combined with a tunnel under outer Østerbro, all the way out to Ryesparken, as some have suggested...The trafical problems on Østerbro, would go away, and turn the city into a almost relaxing car-free zone....

Speaking of tunnels, there is another tunnel, id like to see done in the city. A smaller tunnel, from nyhavn and the new royal therter, and just over to the New operahouse. The roads out there are still pretty bad, and people dont wanna take the bus...At the moment, the best bet is to take the harbour busses/boats, but they dnt run all the time, and capasity is limmeted. People have talked about another bridge, but i thinks thats a bad idea. People wanna look good when the go out, and they dont wanna leave their cars, to cross a bridge, and the weather we normaly have in Denmark. So i say put it under ground. I know it may conflict with the harbourtunnel, but any harbourtunnel would also come with hefty parkingspace, right around that point, so something is bound to happend there also. Someone has suggested, combinng the samll nyhavn tunnel, with a arkade, with small shops, rastaurents and cafees, for people to enjoy before and after the opera...I think that would be an amazing idea.

Car-free zones

The latest fad, among the local politicians, is the idea to make to inner city car-free. I think that might be a great idea, as long as 2 things are in order.

1 – this is to have no effect on the people living there, or the businesses in tearms of dilevery. That also means cabs.

2 – no disision will be made before a harbour tunnel and a metro cityring is in place. In other words, forget about it for the next many years.

I would also, before anything has been desided, like a studdy to be made, looking at the consequenses for the businesses, public offices and turristatractions...

Parking

After stalling for almost 4 years, the city finally made a new agreement on parking, bringing some 1500 new parking spaces to the city. Gret, that should last for about a month, them what?

I wich the politicians would understand, that building 1500 parkingspaces, in the city center, is not going to solve the problem for the normal copenhagen inhabitant. For them, the problem is where they live, most highly on Østerbro, where is impossible to find a parking space after 16.00. Do thay think that people are gonna park in the city, and them walk 2-3 km back to their apartments? Not likely. That why i would have liked to see the city, accept the offer, it was given by the private real estate company, Nordicom. They offerd to build 200 parking spaces, not in big cellers, but in small automatic siloes, right where the problems was biggest, in the bridge areas, and the old city. It would have, once and for all, solved the problem for a lot of people....

Merto cityring
The more the better

Mandetory filter on diesel cars in the city
Yes

A toll to drive in the city
Yes

A brand new 65.000 stadium in Ørestad
oh, sweat mother of god, yes....

I'd like for Copenhagen to establish some "free-zones", kind of inspired by the free trade zones you saw in South Korea, for instance. The Copenhagen free zones though, would be about architecture, not trade and economy.

I'd like for these zones to be designated areas, where architects could experiment with designs on buildings, and where the height limitations that cripple the rest of the city, didn't apply.

We have a lot of talented people. We have a lot of creative people. We also have many people who are forward thinking. I'd like for these values to be put to use, without all the hassle that we see today, when new types of designs are tried incorporated, into the city.

Oh, and a 65.000 seater stadium sounds great (Y).

and noone gives a fuck what you freakin danes erhm called humar ^^ are thinkin so shut the fuck up

and noone gives a fuck what you freakin danes erhm called humar ^^ are thinkin so shut the fuck up
Please. You are a shame to my country. :bash:

he must really want to get banned...

and noone gives a fuck what you freakin danes erhm called humar ^^ are thinkin so shut the fuck up
And noone gives a f*ck that you are to be banned soon :banned:

/\ thank you :D

Isn't it easier that we just agree that everything that this brainless piece of shit writes gets ignored from now.

That should kill the kick he gets out of it...

Peter K

CPH-dude:

Your suggestions sound good put I doubt two of them.

First of all, the Nyhavn-tunnel wont get build because it will create a lot of traffic in an area that is very unique in Copenhagen.

Secondly, a 65.000 seat stadium will NEVER happen, unless we get the Olympics. The soccergames only attract 40.000 when FCK and BIF are playing and the national side has seen a serious decline in attendence.

Peter K

The nyhavn tunnel would be walking only, i guess i should have pointed that out...strictly for walking over to the opera house....so it wont create more trafic...

I think i bigger stadium could work. Not only for danish superleague games, but also for hosting some other international games, and concert...It could be some sort of multipurpose stadium. At the last U2 concert, over 400.000 people tried to get tickets. A bigger stadium, would also help with that...

Secondly, a 65.000 seat stadium will NEVER happen, unless we get the Olympics. The soccergames only attract 40.000 when FCK and BIF are playing and the national side has seen a serious decline in attendence.

Peter K

Hold your horses.

During the last U2 concert in Parken, it was said that as many as 400,000 people wanted a ticket for the concert.
Furthermore, during finals and important matches, people easilly fills up the total capacity of the 42,000 all-seater stadium, Parken.

Plus parken could in theory host a lot more international events, but cant today, because it is located in a resedential area, and has strict rules to follow...In ørestaden, you could avoid that...

I think i bigger stadium could work. Not only for danish superleague games, but also for hosting some other international games, and concert...It could be some sort of multipurpose stadium. At the last U2 concert, over 400.000 people tried to get tickets. A bigger stadium, would also help with that...
65.000 is still too big in my opinion. The only times it would get filled is at huge concerts and national team games. I think FCK and Brøndby like their respective stadium situation today (they have the best stadiums in the Nordics). The new 65.000 stadium would stand empty most time of the year, and that's not economically defendable.

My answer is no. :)

Who want's to play football matches in a half- or even 1/3 empty stadium?

65.000 is still too big in my opinion. The only times it would get filled is at huge concerts and national team games. I think FCK and Brøndby like their respective stadium situation today (they have the best stadiums in the Nordics). The new 65.000 stadium would stand empty most time of the year, and that's not economically defendable.

My answer is no. :)

But...

:cry: :cry: :cry:

65.000 is still too big in my opinion. The only times it would get filled is at huge concerts and national team games. I think FCK and Brøndby like their respective stadium situation today (they have the best stadiums in the Nordics). The new 65.000 stadium would stand empty most time of the year, and that's not economically defendable.

My answer is no. :)

Who want's to play football matches in a half- or even 1/3 empty stadium?
Well, you wouldnt use it if the games only sold a few tickest...Also, there are ways to do it, so that you an remove some stands, they have that in parken already, and i still say, thare will be a lot of both games, and concerts and international events, where it might be used....maybe used for other things...

I still don't think there's enough demand for it.

Copenhagen is nearly over-served with good stadiums, having the best and second best stadiums in the Nordics, both with pretty high capacity (by our measures). Stockholm is underserved with only one real stadium (approx. same capacity as Vilfort Park). Parken is an extremely dynamic and spectacular stadium - Copenhagen doesn't need more than that!

Consider yourself lucky instead of asking for more. ;)

CPH-dude:

Your suggestions sound good put I doubt two of them.

First of all, the Nyhavn-tunnel wont get build because it will create a lot of traffic in an area that is very unique in Copenhagen.

Secondly, a 65.000 seat stadium will NEVER happen, unless we get the Olympics. The soccergames only attract 40.000 when FCK and BIF are playing and the national side has seen a serious decline in attendence.

Peter K
Don't be so sure about that. of course I don't live in Copenhagen but I guess u have the similiar situation as Stockholm. Many concerts can attract almost 100.000 and even some soccer games I'm sure.

Stockholm will hopefully get a new stadium for about 60.000 attendence next year. It's only a football though.

It will never happen. I would love to see it happen but it's not realistic at all. FCK would never move out of Parken and the other stadium would be empty most of the time.

They are planning to tear down the Coca Cola stand and build a new one including a hotel. Hope it will be like SkyDome in Toronto where you can watch the games from the hotel room.

Peter K

Don't be so sure about that. of course I don't live in Copenhagen but I guess u have the similiar situation as Stockholm. Many concerts can attract almost 100.000 and even some soccer games I'm sure.

Stockholm will hopefully get a new stadium for about 60.000 attendence next year. It's only a football though.
And dont forget, if you build it, they will come... :cool: :rock:

A stadium with many porouses for sports, confrenses and international concerts and events could work...

It will never happen. I would love to see it happen but it's not realistic at all. FCK would never move out of Parken and the other stadium would be empty most of the time.

They are planning to tear down the Coca Cola stand and build a new one including a hotel. Hope it will be like SkyDome in Toronto where you can watch the games from the hotel room.

Peter K
Who is talking about FCK...In most places around europe, stadiums are not owned by the clubs...Im talking about a stadium that anyone in theory could use....Brøndby, FCK, Malmø....International events, boxing, Hockey, Tennis, concerts UEFA, or CL cup finals...

Who is talking about FCK...In most places around europe, stadiums are not owned by the clubs...Im talking about a stadium that anyone in theory could use....Brøndby, FCK, Malmø....International events, boxing, Hockey, Tennis, concerts UEFA, or CL cup finals...

I absolutely agree.
A multi-level stadium that can be shared and used by everyone.

right, and give a lot bigger chance for it to work...

But it won't be used enough anyway. A team have to play there all year to make it profitable. I'm sorry to say that, because I really would like to see it happen. But like TOCO said - it is not realistic.

Stockholm should build a 40-45000 stadium - not a 60.000, it is too big (especially since the average attendances in Stockholm is much lower than those in Copenhagen).

But we also dont know the situation in the future...FCK audience is increasing every year, and one day they will play in the UEFA or CL....Play the royal league is growing, and there is still talk about a euro leage...Plus all the other things...For every team to use...I think it could work...I might not be profiteble at first, but neither was parken for a long time, untill the right people came along, and a a few years went by...

So i think it would be a great idea...

Stockholm should build a 40-45000 stadium - not a 60.000, it is too big (especially since the average attendances in Stockholm is much lower than those in Copenhagen).Yes, because we don't have enough big stadiums ;)

Since none of the Stockholm clubs are filling out their stadiums, I don't think that's the problem. ;)

I do agree that Sweden needs a new national stadium though, but I think renovating Råsunda and increase capacity to around 40.000 would be quite enough actually.

60000 is overkill in Stockholm, and even in Copenhagen.

I'm not gonna discuss the stadium since I really don't care. However it should be a private endeavour with all the risks associated with such. Taxes shouldn't be wasted on this. Instead we really ought to fix our serious traffic problems. I find the idea of a large tram system interesting (www.letbaner.dk). This alongside a metro ring would be a start. I wonder if they'll get their act together at Parliament and pay up.

taxes? why would you even say that? Nobody has talked about this being somehow funded by taxes....

CPH-dude:

The thing about Parken is that it is already a multifunctional stadium. You can house any event imaginable in this place. It will be even more up to scale when they tear down the Coca-Cola grandstand and replace with a new one.

Copenhagen will only get a larger stadium if we get the Olympics.

With Parken and Brøndby Stadium we have two medium-sized to large stadiums. A city of our size don't need more than that.

Peter K

yea but, and im sorry to repeat myself again, there is a very strick limit to what Parken can do today, because of its location...I ørestad that would not be a problem....And make for more events, that we cant do right now in parken....

yea but, and im sorry to repeat myself again, there is a very strick limit to what Parken can do today, because of its location...I ørestad that would not be a problem....And make for more events, that we cant do right now in parken....
It is still not worth it. :)

Build skyscrapers or mass transit extensions instead... Or a new A380 compatible runway at CPH, out in Öresund - parallell with the bridge. ;)

It is actually not THAT limited what can be done in Parken. Furthermore, the arrival of one or two new indoor arenas will certainly minimize the demand for another large stadium.

A380-runway would be nice and it is just a matter of time. How long, I do not know, but it will come.

Peter K

A380-runway would be nice and it is just a matter of time. How long, I do not know, but it will come.
I hope you're right - though I remember reading on cph.dk that they had decided NOT to be able to handle the A380 (don't know if it was a permanent decision though).

okay, i fell the whole stadium idea is taking up way to much space, lets just agree to disagree, and let try an focus on some other things for copenhagen....I mentioned some things in my opening, but here must be other ideas, or people who dont agree with what i said...Lets start the talking...

A twin for TT on refshaleøen with several clusters of 30-40 stories?

I would like to see a cluster on each side of Öresund, but that's not likely going to happen. Even though Malmö had the guts to build a tall one, I think Copenhagen will build tall before Malmö does next time.

CPH will be able to handle the A380 eventually. Cannot say anything about the time-span.

Basically, Airbus and Boeing believe in two different concepts of the future of aviation.

Boeing believes that people will be more interested in going straight from destination to destination without any flight changes. Hence, they develop the 787 Dreamliner, which emphasizes comfort and is of medium size.

Airbus believes that regional hubs will be the future of aviation and hence they develop the largest aircraft ever made. People will fly huge aircrafts from Frankfurt to Atlanta and then embark on smaller airplanes towards their final destination just to give an example.

Judging by the number of orders, Airbus is likely to win this race, however I'm not saying the two visions cannot co-exist.

If Copenhagen wants to maintain it's position as the hub of Northern Europe they have to be able to accomodate the Airbus A380 eventually.

Peter K

^^^that makes sence...

If Copenhagen wants to maintain it's position as the hub of Northern Europe they have to be able to accomodate the Airbus A380 eventually.
Yep, that's the question. Ether they want to stay a hub, and invest the money - or they accept the fact that it (and SAS) will become a feeder to Frankfurt and Lufthansa.

I know what I'm hoping..

@cphdude: Not to bring up the topic again but the tax money comes from the fact that I can't see that a new stadium can be built in Ørestad without some sort of tax break. Parken as it is now, has never paid for the real cost of building it (as far as I'm aware).

Now what do people think of having a tram system in CPH? Had a look at www.letbaner.dk ?

Now what do people think of having a tram system in CPH?
I think it is a great idea.

Trams are an outdated technology, they look ugly, and i imagine it is very expensive to build.
Today we have buses and cars. Perfectly fine.

Trams are an outdated technology
:eek::eek:

It is a very modern mass transit system! What trams are you referring to - Göteborg's? :lol:

Haha yea i suppose... no, just looking to troll a bit :tongue2:

Actually, I happen to agree with lofgren.
I, too, dislike trams and think of them as rather old and expensive.

We have talked about this before, on another thread, and trams would not work in a city like cph. To old and the streets are to narrow and short...It would take away parking and walkingspace, and create major traffic jam. At most, it might work on long roads like nørrebrogade, as someone, i think it was Morten M suplyed us a report on. And that is already covered by busses...Metro cityring and maybe more busses, are the way to go...

We have talked about this before, on another thread, and trams would not work in a city like cph. To old and the streets are to narrow and short...It would take away parking and walkingspace, and create major traffic jam. At most, it might work on long roads like nørrebrogade, as someone, i think it was Morten M suplyed us a report on. And that is already covered by busses...Metro cityring and maybe more busses, are the way to go...

I absolutely agree.

You're all crazy. What's going on up there in your heads? :D

Trams don't necessarily go on the streets. On some distances they can go on completely separate tracks, or even in tunnels.

Athens
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/trams/P7190028.jpg

Milan
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/it/trams/Milano/7100-Sirio/7101-giambellino.jpg

Bonn
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/beta29/28965.jpg

Duisburg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/beta29/16.jpg

Nancy. These are called TRV:s, and have rubber wheels so that they can veer off the track and run like a bus as well.
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/caen/images/2894.5.jpg

Montpellier
http://tramateurs.free.fr/tram_montpellier/Images/7.jpg

Lyon
http://images.nycsubway.org//i22000/img_22282.jpg

Bordeaux (electricity integrated in the rail)
http://thetransitcoalition.us/PicturesWeb/BordeauxTramOpening/images/BTO05.jpg

Barcelona
http://www.tramvia.org/galeria/040212-trambaix/dscf0051.jpg

These tram systems are neither outdated nor old - they are one of the most hyper modern forms off public transportation. More environmental friendly, more quite, more good looking and definately cooler than the buses in Copenhagen.

The tram trains has the same capacity as the small Metro trains in CPH, but they are way more flexible. The can run on the streets (on tracks or even on the asphalt) and they can borrow tracks of the S-tog and even of the Metro system. They can replace large parts of the main bus network, plus be a great complement to the existing rail network in Copenhagen.

Get rid of the buses (except for the double deckers which are cool) and invest in trams.

Now!

You're all crazy. What's going on up there in your heads? :D

Trams don't necessarily go on the streets. On some distances they can go on completely separate tracks, or even in tunnels.

These tram systems are neither outdated nor old - they are one of the most hyper modern forms off public transportation. More environmental friendly, more quite, more good looking and definately cooler than the buses in Copenhagen.

The tram trains has the same capacity as the small Metro trains in CPH, but they are way more flexible. The can run on the streets (on tracks or even on the asphalt) and they can borrow tracks of the S-tog and even of the Metro system. They can replace large parts of the main bus network, plus be a great complement to the existing rail network in Copenhagen.

Get rid of the buses (except for the double deckers which are cool) and invest in trams.

Now!

Been on most of those trams, and they were nice indeed.
Yet, I can't quite picture Copenhagen with no buses. It would be awkward and wrong. I absolutely love the CPH buses.

Having said that, I do feel we will need a metro network much bigger than what we have now.
Though going in the right direction, the metro network of Copenhagen will need many more lines than the current ones and M4.

Been on most of those trams, and they were nice indeed.
Yet, I can't quite picture Copenhagen with no buses. It would be awkward and wrong. I absolutely love the CPH buses.

Having said that, I do feel we will need a metro network much bigger than what we have now.
Though going in the right direction, the metro network of Copenhagen will need many more lines than the current ones and M4.
Well, of course I haven't taken the "personal feelings" (for the buses) into my plan. ;) As a Malmö citizen I hate buses, since it is virtually the only form of transportation we got (except for commuter trains, which I never use since I live in the city).

Copenhagen's double deckers are very cool and unique though. I don't think it is that many cities that have double deckers actually (I know London and Hong Kong got them, and there are probably numerous other cities).

Trams being obsolete? How come they're being built at a greater rate than ever throughout the world? They're A LOT cheaper per km than metro and they can transport almost as much trafic as a metro line. In any case a lot more than the same space filled by cars or even busses. Trams are faster, more energy efficient and the price isn't bad at all. I hope both the metro ring and the tram ring will be built. With them CPH will have the capacity to transport people around CPH without everyone having to go to the center before returning out. Designing the public transportation system after a hand with fingers was an awful idea considering the demands of today. As it is now, you cannot go from one finger to another without making a visit to the hand. Except for the busses of course, which are drowning in traffic, ever smaller budgets and passenger numbers.

Building a single tram line won't cost much and then we'll be able to see if it's a good idea or not.

Ørestad in 2030?

http://www.cgarchitect.com/news/Images/3DA2004/archstill_875_sm.jpg

/\ not bad... not bad at all! :)

agreed....i love it....

Where are the people and the vibrancy? :)

tictac...did you make the pic? or find it somewhere?

there is an article in the paper today, saying that a decission on a harbour tunnel could be taken as early as this fall/winter...The city was last year given the ownership of the harbour, vallued at 3 billion kroner, and part of the deal was, that they needed to use some of that money on a harbour tunnel, and the rest on a metro cityring...And as the decission on the metro cityring grows closer, so does the harbour tunnel...

I guess that you all know the area around Domus Vista in Frederiksberg just outside downtown Copenhagen.

Domus Vista is literally surrounded by parking lots. These should be full of highrise apartment buildings.

Peter K