High speed rail Montreal to NYC

[goravens]

High-speed rail link between Montreal and New York a possibility, Charest

Canadian Press

October 5, 2005
ALBANY, N.Y. (CP) - The dream of a high-speed rail link between Montreal and New York City could become a reality by 2008, Quebec Premier Jean Charest said Wednesday.

Charest made the comments after meeting with New York Gov. George Pataki at a summit aimed at improving economic ties between Quebec and New York state. Charest will now try to get Ottawa on board because rail transportation is federal jurisdiction.

As early as Tuesday, Charest called the idea of a high-speed rail link between the two cities a "nice dream." But after meeting with Pataki on Wednesday he changed his tune, calling it a "project."

Pataki also said he would try to get Washington interested in the idea. Speaking with Charest at a news conference Wednesday, the governor pointed out that President George Bush has promised to set aside $10 billion for public transportation.

Pataki said he was willing to do what it takes to "ensure this (rail link) becomes a reality."

Charest said the rail link would be a "strong and powerful symbol" of the relationship between Quebec and New York.

The premier also said that factors like the Kyoto Protocol and the high price of gas contributed to the project's plausibility.

The idea of a high-speed rail link between Montreal and New York City has been around for years, but never went much further than the drawing board as governments on either side of the border weren't willing to put up the money.
© The Canadian Press 2005

[.affed]

Before linking Montreal with the Americans we should concentrate on linking some of the greatest cities in our country.

For when the Quebec-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor high-speed train?

[Nouvellecosse]

^Agreed.

[rt_0891]

I not that keen on the feds funding yet another project in Quebec. If most of the costs (at least 80%) was to be covered by the Quebec government, that would be a different story.

[Ashok]

Before linking Montreal with the Americans we should concentrate on linking some of the greatest cities in our country.

For when the Quebec-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor high-speed train?

I agree, but this is a cool project too.

[addisonwesley]

"Quebec-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor" Cool, I agree.

[oberon]

Yeah, the Americans don't seem to be very keen on building high-speed rail after the Acela debacle. I must say service on the Québec-Windsor corridor is pretty decent though. It takes only a little over four hours to get from Montréal/Ottawa to Toronto, downtown to downtown in the case of Mtl to TO. The trains now run at 160 km/h. To get faster than this speed, we'll need a lot of investments to eliminate railway crossings and freight trains (or build another set of dedicated tracks). This would only cut travel time down to around three hours... I'd rather see the money used to improve PT in cities, like replacing our 40 year old métro cars. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just want to give you guys some perspectives.

[eomer]

Yeah, the Americans don't seem to be very keen on building high-speed rail after the Acela debacle. I must say service on the Québec-Windsor corridor is pretty decent though.
I agree with you: it would be a better way to start by Quebec-Windsor (Detroit) and then go further until Chicago. Montreal-Boston-NYC-Washington and Toronto-Buffalo-NYC could follow.

[Canadian Admiral]

what do they mean when they say high speed though? cause sometimes these politicians say high speed and its not really high speed. High speed at the least should be as fast as TGV, and if it is like a shinkansen bullet train network it would really be nice (though massively unaffordable).

[habsfan]

Before linking Montreal with the Americans we should concentrate on linking some of the greatest cities in our country.

For when the Quebec-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor high-speed train?

First of all, there already is a network linking Phily, NYC and Boston. MOntreal would be connected to that link. Secondly, the amount population in that area is huge.

[habsfan]

I would also like to point out that Québec and New-York State trade for 10 to 15 billion$ worth of stuff every year. With a high spped link(Mtl to NYC in under 4 hours) would only go to increase the amount of trade between our two territories.

[eomer]

what do they mean when they say high speed though? cause sometimes these politicians say high speed and its not really high speed. High speed at the least should be as fast as TGV, and if it is like a shinkansen bullet train network it would really be nice (though massively unaffordable).
According to UIC, "HSR" means 250 km/h at least. Acela is not so far with 240 km/h "only" but it use Diesel and not Electricity: that's not so bad.
An HSR network is affordable for USA and Canada: it means less short-haul flights. And costs are only about 10 M € / km (5 M € / km for a 2x2 lanes motorway)

[samsonyuen]

The Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa should be first priority, and then fan out to Québec and Windsor/Detroit. A massive North American network would be great, though.

[eomer]

The Toronto/Montreal/Ottawa should be first priority,
I guess you talk about Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal....
I agree with you about priorities. There is at least an other possibility for HSR: Vancouver-Seattle-Portland and maybe Portland-Sacremento-San Francisco-Los Angeles-San Diego/Las Vegas.

[malek]

most of you guys don't get it i think.

when you say that the federal is asked to fund this project, what is really asked is not even 10% (maybe less) of the total bill.

Why? because most of the link between NYC/MTL is in the US.

Central station in Montreal to the US border is 70 km far, there's 580kms left to NYC.

Moreover, the exisiting rails on the Canadian side need little to no upgrade, thus reducing the costs even more.

So when you take all this into account, you realize that its the US and NY state that really has the final word because they will pay almost all of the bill.

By high speed, it means 260kmh.

Also, please cut the jealousy and "lets do this instead" crap, the Quebec-Windsor corridor also needs a high speed train but both projects aren't mutualy exclusive.

[officedweller]

The Amtrak Cascades train (Vancouver - Seattle - Portland - Eugene) already uses Spanish Talgo tilting trains - but the Canadian side of the tracks are so poor that they can't reach full speed (which is a modest 115mph).

http://www.amtrakcascades.com/

***********
Amtrak Cascades Quick Facts

In 2004, more than 603,000 passengers rode Amtrak Cascades a 2.3 percent increase compared to the previous year. This is the tenth consecutive year of increased ridership aboard Amtrak Cascades.

Built by Talgo, General Motors, and Pacifica Marine, the European-style trains are sleek, modern, and feature distinctive evergreen and cappuccino hues on a cream background.

Hidden beneath the 7-foot-tall tail fins at both ends of the train are baggage and service cars (they supply the air conditioning, electricity and lights).

Each train car contains power generators that support video, music, air conditioning, lights and kitchen equipment.

Panoramic windows and natural tones inside the train are designed to showcase the spectacular Pacific Northwest views.

Amtrak Cascades trains are designed for high-speed rail service (current track and safety systems limit the trains to a top speed of 79 mph).

Each Amtrak Cascades train typically consists of 12 cars and seats up to 244 passengers, with space for four mobility-impaired passengers.

The unique style of locomotive can push or pull Amtrak Cascades trains. When trains reach the end of their route, crews turn passenger seats around and the train heads back the way it came.

Amtrak Cascades locomotives feature low-emission production, computer-controlled fuel injection, an aerodynamic body style for low drag, and a specially designed cab to insulate the crew from noise and vibration.

Amtrak Cascades trains feature a special technology that utilizes gravity to tilt through curves while speed is maintained. This technology shortens the trip between Seattle, WA and Portland, OR by 25 minutes.

**********
Here's info from the Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) website:

Second Amtrak Cascades Train to Canada

Amtrak Cascades service continues to grow in popularity with Pacific Northwest travelers. Based on feedback from rail passengers and communities served by Amtrak Cascades, faster, more frequent service to Canada is something many people would like to take advantage of. This interest has grown even stronger since Vancouver/Whistler, British Columbia won the bid to host the 2010 Winter Olympics.

How many Amtrak Cascades trains go to Canada today?
One. Since 1995 the Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) and Amtrak have offered daily round-trip Amtrak Cascades service between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C. The train departs from Seattle each morning and stops in Edmonds, Everett, Mount Vernon, and Bellingham, with a return trip departing Vancouver, B.C. each evening. In 2004, 94,500 riders traveled on this train, making it one of the most popular Amtrak Cascades routes.

In 1999 Amtrak and WSDOT launched a second daily Amtrak Cascades round trip between Seattle, Edmonds, Everett, Mount Vernon, and Bellingham. In 2004 ridership on this second train totaled just over 62,000. The additional Amtrak Cascades train north of Seattle was originally intended to continue through to Vancouver, B.C., after rail line improvements in Canada were completed. To date, these improvements have not been made.

When will there be a second Amtrak Cascades train to Canada?
Before this can happen, a new set of tracks must be added in British Columbia so that Amtrak Cascades trains do not interfere with freight trains operating in the region. Since 1994 WSDOT has made track and signal improvements to the rail line owned by the BNSF Railway Company (BNSF) so that both freight trains and Amtrak Cascades passenger trains can operate efficiently within the shared rail corridor that stretches from the Columbia River to the Canadian border. Funding for the rail improvements in British Columbia must come from either the Province of British Columbia or the Canadian federal government, since state funds cannot be spent for transportation projects outside of the state of Washington. It is uncertain if, or when, these funds will be made available.

How much will the improvements in British Columbia cost?
The most recent cost estimate for these improvements is $15 million (United States dollars). It is also estimated that it will take up to two years to obtain construction permits and complete the work that must be done before the second Amtrak Cascades train can begin service between Vancouver, B.C. and Seattle.

Is Amtrak Cascades service included in the 2010 Winter Olympics transportation plan?
No. The regional transportation plan developed for the International Olympic Committee by Canadian officials does not currently include any rail improvements between downtown Vancouver, B.C. and the international border. Funding to support international passenger rail transportation has not been included in any of the budgets developed by Canadian transportation officials thus far.

How would a second Amtrak Cascades train to Canada benefit the people of the Pacific Northwest?
Amtrak Cascades service connects 17 cities in the Pacific Northwest region; five are in Oregon, 11 are in Washington, and one is in British Columbia. The current Amtrak Cascades schedule does not allow for travel between cities south of Seattle and Vancouver, B.C. without an overnight layover in Seattle. A second daily Amtrak Cascades round trip between Seattle and Vancouver, B.C. would eliminate this layover and give travelers heading south from Vancouver, B.C. a new morning departure as well as the existing evening departure. WSDOT anticipates that this second daily round trip would increase ridership and greatly improve travel options.

What is WSDOT doing to make this happen?
WSDOT, Amtrak, and other organizations are continuing to work with Canadian officials and BNSF to secure funding for the rail line improvements in British Columbia that will allow the second Amtrak Cascades train to Canada to begin as soon as possible.

[sargeantcm]

I've heard alot about a Boston-Montreal connection, especially when I worked at NHDOT. Given most of it would go through NH, it's a pretty big concern for corridor preservation, etc.

[samsonyuen]

Is the Canadian side of the Amtrak Cascades really that much worse than the US side?

[elkram]

25 years on, it's astounding to still hear this NYC-Mtl highspeed train line being promoted. I think the QC-Wins corridor is too big a project for Canadians to take on -- I reckon they ought to start out by linking up just Montreal and Ottawa with high speed, and see how that pans out before proceeding with larger ambitions. For the past few years I've heard more about the Mtl-Boston proposal than the -NYC one.

Cheers,
Chris

[Black Cat]

What is badly needed to get a rail corridor really working in eastern Canada (or at least between Ottawa and Montreal) is a regular service all day, ideally trains running hourly or so at peak times and 2-hourly till late in the evening.

Also, there should be plenty of seats/capacity on trains so booking is not necessary and there should be a quick ticket office and/or ticket machines - you should not have to wait in the slow line for tickets where the ticket seller can frequently spend 5-10 minutes per customer. A few more doors on trains may also help speed up trains when they stop at stations.

[Taller, Better]

High speed rail links are enormously expensive. It is highly unlikely there is enough
rail traffic between Montreal and New York to justify such an expenditure of funds.
It will remain "a nice dream".