View Full Version : Planned high-rises and motorway on Karl Johan(mostly norwegian)


kjetilab
October 12th, 2005, 03:20 PM
Found a funny article on Dagbladet Magasinet today.
In the sixties there were people who totally seriously wanted to build Karl Johans gate(main street in Oslo) into a 72 metre wide, and 3 story high motorway. This would make Oslo into the most modern city in Europe the people behind the proposal argued.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/717/karlx20johan3art4vp.jpg
The renovned architect Håkon Mjelva(Økernsenteret) proposed to build the national theatre into a high-rise with 25 stories. The plans where not very popular naturally.

Read entire article on http://www.dagbladet.no/magasinet/2005/06/07/434022.html (norwegian)

NorthStar77
October 12th, 2005, 03:32 PM
I've read it before. Most interesting. And it is a reminder of the fact that ideas that are presented as modern and a sign of progress, is not always good. Infact they can be horrible!

Gatis
October 12th, 2005, 03:36 PM
Just like the proposals with Dzirnavu Street here in late 1960ies (that was 2-story street though). Brrr, nightmare.

sander
October 12th, 2005, 08:54 PM
These plans were really horrible, because why to destroy some valuable architecture and build some modern crap instead of it. I love progress and modernity, but everything must be in a right place.

NiceGuy
October 12th, 2005, 10:38 PM
If they had implemented this plan then the high-way that blocks Oslo from the sea would never have been built. I honestly believe that would have made Oslo a better city. Karl Johan is now the most attractive area in Oslo, but other areas could have taken over this role instead. I would be against it if it was proposed again, but I think this would have been better than separating Oslo from the sea by the most ugly high-way in Europe.

NorthStar77
October 12th, 2005, 11:31 PM
Separating the historical downtown of Norway's capital with an ugly highway would have been much worse imo. It would have done irreversably damage to the area by destroying lots of historical buildings. And we would have had even more ugly 60'ies arhcitecture, and that even in the middle of the city:
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/4/43/434/434022/karljohan3.jpg

Instead, we get a motorway-tunnel in a few years, and the whole highway-separating-city-and-sea problem is then solved.

Þróndeimr
October 12th, 2005, 11:37 PM
Yeah, i've read it before, though i misunderstood it to be in the 30s. Horrible proposal of course, but i can imagine it that the view on these kind of developments was a bit different in the 60s, when Norway really needed to copy richer and more powerful western countries.

NiceGuy
October 12th, 2005, 11:42 PM
Separating the historical downtown of Norway's capital with an ugly highway would have been much worse imo. It would have done irreversably damage to the area by destroying lots of historical buildings. And we would have had even more ugly 60'ies arhcitecture, and that even in the middle of the city:

Instead, we get a motorway-tunnel in a few years, and the whole highway-separating-city-and-sea problem is then solved.

The high-way separating Oslo from the sea destroyed just as many historical buildings, and also triggered massive construction of ugly 60s buildings (especially in Vika). Oslo currently doesn't have a single old building by the sea except for the Akershus castle, and this makes Oslo one of the strangest sea-side cities in Europe. The huge Fjordby-project will repair some of the damage, but Oslo will forever be deprived of its old historical center. You think the old Hansa-architecture in Bergen is great? We had it too, just bigger and better! You want to know where? Just in front our current city hall, and in Bjørvika.

Sideshow_Bob
October 13th, 2005, 12:23 AM
/\ That's so incredibly sad!

NorthStar77
October 13th, 2005, 12:27 AM
You think the old Hansa-architecture in Bergen is great? We had it too, just bigger and better! You want to know where? Just in front our current city hall, and in Bjørvika.

Okay I didn't know that. And yeah, Vika is quite an ugly place really. From what I've read before it was just a slum prior to the construction of the city hall, but I guess that view depends on who writes the history...

NiceGuy
October 13th, 2005, 01:23 AM
There has been many other great plans for Oslo as well. Just take a look at this 1915 version of the city hall!
http://www.byarkivet.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/byarkivet%20%28BAR%29/Internett%20%28BAR%29/Bilder/havn_raadhus%20MTEyNTA2NTQ4MzM5OTg4MTY3Nw.jpg

They also wanted a train out to the islands:
http://www.byarkivet.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/byarkivet%20%28BAR%29/Internett%20%28BAR%29/Bilder/havn%20MTEyNTA2NDk3MzEzODY0NDM1Mj.jpg

I like this bridge!
http://www.byarkivet.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/byarkivet%20%28BAR%29/Internett%20%28BAR%29/Bilder/havn_senkebro%20MTEyNTA2NTUzMTIxNTc2NjE1NA%20%28600x734%29.jpg

Edit: This building looks familiar!
http://www.byarkivet.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/byarkivet%20%28BAR%29/Internett%20%28BAR%29/Bilder/havn_tollhus%20MTEyNTA2NTQ1MzU5NzU4MjI2MQ.jpg

kjetilab
October 13th, 2005, 02:16 AM
There has been many other great plans for Oslo as well.

But these plans weren't great. A 3 storey motorway 72 metres wide right through central parts of Oslo is in no manner great. A 25 five storey tower, as Håkon Mjelva proposed, with the sixties style architecture would have made construction high-rises in the future impossible.

But, of course, Oslo was not the only city where kinda comical ideas was proposed. In Drammen there was proposals of building lots of "Skistadbygget" (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=211931) like building all over central Strømsø, something that would have ruined that part of town forever.

Some high-rise plans we can be very grateful never was realized...

The railway brigde looked nice though..

Spearman
October 13th, 2005, 02:49 AM
That city hall is one I could have loved. Also the bridge. But I guess the really great projects never come cheap.

Btw someone mentioned 60 architecture. I kinda think we still are there in a way. I SimCity they call it "European contemporary". It's really rare for a building to turn out special with that kind of architecture, and I think that lies at the core of the anti-highrise movement in Oslo today. If someone could just come up with a graceful and friendly skyscraper design, I think it would be very possible to get the general public along...

NorthStar77
October 13th, 2005, 09:34 AM
^Perhaps something like Turning torso, Swiss Re, or Saules Akmens?

Turning torso, Malmø
http://www.bizzbook.com/hamnen/bilder/TurningTorso/torsoLights14.jpg

Swiss Re, London
http://www.willfox.com/images/upc/8.jpg

Saules Akmens, Riga
http://img157.exs.cx/img157/7986/saulesakmens4oo.jpg
@NiceGuy: Interesting plans. I would have liked that city hall!

Spearman
October 13th, 2005, 03:55 PM
:cheers2: Perhaps something like those!

NiceGuy
October 13th, 2005, 04:04 PM
In Drammen there was proposals of building lots of "Skistadbygget" (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=211931) like building all over central Strømsø, something that would have ruined that part of town forever.
"Skistadbygget" is not that bad. All it needs is a bright color like red, orange, lime or yellow.