Factory's Land-Use Changes Nip Ybor

The Tampa Tribune
By SEAN LENGELL slengell@tampatrib.com
Published: Oct 6, 2005


YBOR CITY - Flying sawdust and the din of machinery have filled the air at the S & S Craftsmen millwork factory the past quarter-century.

But the nondescript building at the southern end of Ybor City may go the way of the district's erstwhile cigar factories, thanks to the city's decision to allow for potential residential development on the site.

The Tampa City Council voted Sept. 29 to approve a request by the property's owners to change the land-use designation of the 1.6-acre industrial site at 1307 E. Second Ave. The new designation will allow for residential uses, including high-rise condominiums.

Up to 75 residential units per acre will be permitted. The ratio can expand to 100 units per acre under certain circumstances.

The new designation, called Regional Mixed-Use 100, also allows for large office and commercial buildings, shopping malls, single-family homes and mixed-use developments.

The factory's owners, who have the property for sale, said they requested the change to make it more attractive to prospective buyers.

The company, which will move to another location in the area once the property is sold, has no plans to develop the property itself, co-owner John Rosende said.

Upscale condos have popped up in recent years throughout Ybor City. As the trend continues, residential developers have been eyeing the district's industrial sector between Seventh Avenue and Adamo Drive.

Rosende said it's only a matter of time before Ybor City's industrial area will be transformed by condos, Rosende said.

"The writing's on the wall, and you have to be prepared and be proactive," he said.

Rosende, an Ybor City native, said he doesn't disapprove of the trend, believing housing is a better fit for today's Ybor City than industrial businesses.

"We've just felt like it was best for Channelside and Ybor to go ahead and do this" land-use change, he said. "You wouldn't want [another] industrial site on this property."

But some community activists and council members aren't convinced high-rise condos are a good idea for Ybor City.

Although S & S Craftsmen lies only a few feet outside the Ybor City historical district, any high-rise buildings on the site would cast an unwelcome shadow on the overall area, said Fran Costantino, president of the East Ybor Civic Association.

"When people are coming up from Channelside up 13th Street, [the S & S Craftsmen site] is Ybor to them," she said. "If we start a precedent [at this site] ... the dominoes are going to fall from 13th Street all the way to 22nd Street along the Adamo corridor."

Council members Linda Saul-Sena and John Dingfelder, who cast the only votes against the land-use change, agree that high rises aren't appropriate for the site.

"It's smack up against our national landmark district," Saul-Sena said at the Sept. 29 council meeting.

Added Dingfelder: The property "is still Ybor, it represents Ybor, and I think we're making a mistake if we approve it."

Other commissioners said it isn't fair to impose historical district guidelines on property outside the district, no matter how close it is to the boundary.

"Sometimes we are caught between making a decision that we want as opposed to what we should do," Ferlita said. "This [property] is clearly out of the historic district."

Maybe some low rise or mid rise buildings along Adamo, but there will be a strong vote against high rises.

This would be good for Ybor.and anyone living there,cuz you have a lot to do down there.

Maybe some low rise or mid rise buildings along Adamo, but there will be a strong vote against high rises.

They already approved the zoning. Too late.



I also don't think that area needs true highrises, as in buildings of 300ft+ like the new zoning allows for.

However, I do think that buildings of perhaps 150ft or less are perfectly fine on the west end of Ybor, south of like 4th Ave... With it tailing off to like 75ft or less once over to 22nd Ave. South of Adamo, I don't really give a rat's ass how tall a building is built. This is the middle of the city, and there is minimal land left to develop horizontally, even with brownfield sites considered. So, either we can focus taller development in and around the city center, or we can have Tampa inevitably become a carpet of scattered midrises and highrises all over the damn place. I would rather see the density focussed in the core.


And btw, if the city and Barrio Latino have any hope of making Ybor truly vibrant 18/7, then they're going to need to ease up on the silly hieght restriction within the historic district anyways. 2-3 story development simply isn't going to bring the sort of vibrancy they've been moaning about for years. IMO, 4-6 story buildings (with some reasonable set back requirement for floors over like 3 stories) aren't going to ruin anything down there, but would add a significant boost to density and thus streetlife.

Any development for Ybor is a plus, especially if its replacing a abandoned building or vacant lot.

I hope this isn't the vacant factory accross from the "Quarter at Ybor" on the highway side. If it is, thats a bad location for a high rise. I am hoping they convert that factory into lofts keeping the original facade.

This is the middle of the city

I hope this isn't the vacant factory accross from the "Quarter at Ybor" on the highway side. If it is, thats a bad location for a high rise. I am hoping they convert that factory into lofts keeping the original facade.

They are nowhere near each other. The site being discussed is at 13th St and 2nd Ave (very near Channelsides and Adamo). The Quarter is at Palms and 19th-21st.

Whoops! I didn't read the entire article but I agree with Rose Ferlita on this one. They can build tall around there but I just hope it matches the brick architecture around YBor. It could happen!

Keeping the old Ybor style brick design is a must for any new project in Ybor. Ybor needs these high rises to thrive, but we shouldn't ruin the area's culture and history.

I agree with Jasonhouse. If not in the urban core, then where? It's ridiculous that our elected officials are soo short sighted and insist on having "their" voices heard on these particular projects???

Their responsibility is to encourage sustainable growth in our city center not continue to encourage sprawl! I don't understand where they have issues with building heights and where to draw the line on where the city center begins and ends.

YBOR is within city limits and therefore development should be encouraged not hindered.

Think of how silly we must look to the outside world. Real developers with proven track records such as Jorge Perez's The Related Group of Florida will not consider Tampa anytime soon for a quality project due to our political misfits and infighting between the city and county govt's.

They can't even agree to support local developers with deep pockets (ie. Bishop, Turanchik, and others which proposed Civitas - great project which would have cleaned up Tampa's slums).

I sit back and watch and quite frankly am embarressed when asked what is up with our local politicians? Why they get in the way of progress? And why they were voted in in the first place?

Sorry guys, just venting!

Keeping the old Ybor style brick design is a must for any new project in Ybor. Ybor needs these high rises to thrive, but we shouldn't ruin the area's culture and history.

I agree that it would be reasonable for any development near Ybor to at least take on some styling cues (not massing or scale however) from the Ybor vernacular.

However, it should absolutely NOT be required of developers outside the historic district, but rather be a carrot and stick type thing. As in, the city would swap variances for developers meeting such conditions. (just like how the city let's developers have less setbacks, or build taller or denser for adding a park, or chipping in on nearby infrastructure improvements).

Is there some way we can put more pressure on our government officials beside sending them individual letter or email. Maybe we all can send a group email that represent all of us telling them we are displeased with their action or inaction when certain issues that just piss us off. As a group I think we have more power and influence over these brainless government officials. I was one of many residents that was displeased with the Tampa City Councils when they voted down the Kress Condo project in the summer of this year. Me and several people send emails to the City Councils voicing our displeasured by their action and specifically naming the Council Members that voted "no". I guest it somewhat influenced them to vote "yes" at the next meeting to give a go ahead for the Kress Condo Project.

Group email is difficult. I would suggest that if there is a consensus email, you still send your own - strength in numbers and nagging. For a consensus email you would need a group name, which we do not have.

The emails do work - you should cc the trib and/or times and see if you can get them printed. Always be polite but do not pull punches. IF you think it is bush league say so. And if you support something, let them know. People like being complimented.

^I was just going to say, we would have to form some kind of association or PAC or something.

Besides, I like the concept of spam/flooding the inboxes of the council assistants. They have to respond to all e-mails, from what I gather. Why let them off easy with one response? I suspect that the bitching would be more easily forgotten that way, than if a clerk has to blow a couple hours responding to email after email.

I'm all for it Jason!!! Let flood their email boxes!!! Anybody know how to do it? But I guest we also got to be dilpomatic about it and not use the "F" word.

I'm all for it Jason!!! Let flood their email boxes!!! Anybody know how to do it? But I guest we also got to be dilpomatic about it and not use the "F" word.

Yeah, i'd be fine w/ that. And i think they'd ignore you if you used that word. Remember in their mind their proffessionals.
:runaway:

I'm all for it Jason!!! Let flood their email boxes!!! Anybody know how to do it? But I guest we also got to be dilpomatic about it and not use the "F" word.

Alot of times some of us get tuned up about an issue, so several of us will send e-mails bitching.

I was just pointing out that it takes more work fro them to respond to 5-10 emails than it does to respond to 1. So, the council folks are more likely to remember our bitching when it appears to be a random groundswell of concerned citizens, than if it was one e-mail from some unknown special interest group.

I really like the idea of organizing something and giving it a name. This the birth of grassroots and is proven to be effective!!! Neighborhood associations have a lot of influence...and these are just people who organize in a certain neighborhood. As long as you have some type of goal and the will to recruit members (which this board seems to have a lot of) , I am certain we could accomplish something. I am constantly tired of hearing how projects that would benefit a certain area , like say Ybor, are being rejected/dismissed by officials or board members in organizations like the Barrio Latino or city council. The mentality of some of these members is very small-town whereas there is an ever increasing number of people who want to see Tampa become an urban, dense, vibrant place. The reason why these officials are getting away with it is because they are not hearing complaints!!! Any thoughts???

I think that we should probably have a forum meet before trying to organize folks for something that will inevitably cost some money and time...

And besides, who would lead this rag-tag bunch?

I think that we should probably have a forum meet before trying to organize folks for something that will inevitably cost some money and time...

And besides, who would lead this rag-tag bunch?


I vote for Jasonhouse...

nooooo... Trust me, whenever some folks finally meet me in person, that tune will change plenty fast... I know how to create a decent webforum and run it, but real world stuff is well beyond my abilities at this point in life.

Ouch, Jason! You can't be that bad. . . :cheers:

Maybe we'd be better off just sending very organized letters that we all craft together. :dunno:

yes...


This is me in a nutshell
http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/dork-33464.jpg



But anyways, back to the topic for this thread folks...

I wouldn't mind a Central Park like project on the outskirts of Ybor, but I don't want to see a cluster of 40 story towers there. Just kills the whole vibe you have going there. I'll be okay with one, but not more than 3.

I would definitely have a problem with any true highrise being built north of Adamo in the Ybor area (300ft+)... As I said before, my target would be more like 150ft, maybe up to 225ft if there were appreciable setbacks. And the closer a site was to 7th, the shorter the building would have to be...

I would definitely have a problem with any true highrise being built north of Adamo in the Ybor area (300ft+)... As I said before, my target would be more like 150ft, maybe up to 225ft if there were appreciable setbacks. And the closer a site was to 7th, the shorter the building would have to be...

I agree however I might raise the height a little bit if the building matched the arcitectual style of the neiborhood. In other words a historic looking brick tower that of course, would allow the maximum amount of sunlight to the ground. However the likelyhood of getting a historic looking brick tower is as likely Trump Tower begining construction next week, unfortunatley. I think it would make Ybor look better if it happened though. Eventually I hope Adamo fills in with midrise apartments and brownstones.

I am all for highrises, but in the right places... Cluttering the Ybor streetscape (visible when walking along 7th) with highrises isn't a part of my personal idea of what Ybor could/should become, that's for sure...

I would love to see YBor become an artsy area with many art galleries and clothing shops with a center for clubbing, around 14th street near where Masqerade was.

I wonder what they are planning to do with the old Metropolitan Deluxe store. I hope they do something cool.

I am all for highrises, but in the right places... Cluttering the Ybor streetscape (visible when walking along 7th) with highrises isn't a part of my personal idea of what Ybor could/should become, that's for sure...

Well, Jason, I think it's safe to say that the city council would agree with you. I don't see skyscrapers within that part of town. Tampa follows strict guidelines that will not change any time soon.

Well, Jason, I think it's safe to say that the city council would agree with you. I don't see skyscrapers within that part of town. Tampa follows strict guidelines that will not change any time soon.

Well the city wouldn't allow towers in Ybor at all, probaly not even on Adamo. Heck, only after herassment from newspapers and people like us did they even allow towers in Northern and Central Channelside. :nuts: I'd be like pulling teeth to get any Ybor. Personally I'm fine with midrises on Adamo and few story lofts and apartments everywhere else in Ybor.

^Same here... I do feel that generally, the redevelopment of Ybor hasn't been nearly dense enough thus far... Instead of what is mostly turning out to be 2 story townhouses, the city should be have been STRONGLY encouraging 3-5 story lofts/condos/stacked townhouses north of 4th Ave throughout Ybor, with integrated retail encouraged here and there where property owners are seeking to incorporate it... With western Ybor (like west of 15th) being for office and hotel space, and light industrial where it exists and isn't redeveloped... Of course 3-5 story mixed use with ground floor retail all along 7th and 8th Aves... South of 4th, I would allow progressively taller structures, so long as they are generally out of the sighlines along 7th Ave... And south of Adamo or west of Nuccio, which is out of the historic district, developers could build as tall as the FAA allows for. East of 22nd, is where I would favor lower densities, with it being basically 3 floors or less. Though again, with all redeveloped properties, I would strongly encourage multi-family projects (namely townhouses/brownstones), not single family homes.

Within the historic district there are height limits of 45 feet. The only place you could build anything higher would be on 2nd Ave. and Adamo Dr. I'd rathe the taller buildings stay south of Adamo and in Downtown.

Ybor City development must be historical in nature and however somewhat dense. There are too many vacant lots that need to be filled in with homes. Be that single family homes, townhomes, or lofts. Just let's get more residents in Ybor to help support businesses on 7th Ave, the Steetcar and furthur development of the area through increased TIF funds for the Community Redevelopment Areas.

More residents = more tax revenue = better infrastructure = great attractive neighborhood.

^single family homes and townhouses aren't going to provide that level of density. Not by a long shot... And especially not with the city's killjoy attitude in the district already compelling district regulars to patronize businesses elsewhere...

Like I had said about 3-5 story buildings throughout most of the district... That would simply mean that nothing could be taller than buildings which already exist. Namely the Hampton Inn, and the city's Centro Ybor garage between 15th and 16th... Or in other words, it would add a 'whopping' 15 feet to the current hieght restriction. And since most of Ybor is in fact already built out, it wouldn't exactly have a big impact on the look of the district.

I would love to see YBor behave and look like the Gaslamp Quarter in San Diego. I know in the immediate future it is not practical.

I personally would rather have Ybor, and for that matter Channelside and CBD, fill in some more before Ybor gets towers. We need more people living there, to show that this is a real residential neighborhood (that's right with actual PEOPLE, and not just towers and flippers) before we clutter and abstruct Ybor with towers.

Why is there no talk of making 7th brick again?

dunno... SOunds like a greta idea to me... Hell, I say the city should lookinto re-brick a few streets in Ybor... 8th, 15th, maybe 4th... I think that would be really nice, and keep traffic speeds down... Shit, at least make the intersections brick or something...

I thought I heard Iorio on one of her appearances on CTTV talking about all of the intersections getting brick-like crosswalks.

That's going on in various parts of the city, but that is just little strips of psuedo brick (which I suspect will peel up after a few years of being pounded by commercial trucks and SUVs)... We're talking about the whole intersection being brick, or better yet, the whole road... That would dramatically change the feel of things imo.

That is true. I was actually thinking about talking to the mayor about making 7th all brick and 6th and 4th. The intersection thing is great. I would hate actually hate to see faux-brick in the intersections.

That's a great idea! Go talk to her - I'll bet this would have widespread community support.

Love the sarcasm.

I wasn't being sarcastic.

I am a board member of the Ybor Community Development Corporation (YCDC) and can tell you there are no short term plans to brick 7th Ave. or any other street. The YCDC oversees where the tax money is spent in Ybor and unfortunately we have other priorities right now like financing Centro Ybor ($330,000 annually) and the 15th St. Stormwater project ($450,000). Money for bricking isn't there quite yet but one day could be with an increas in housing units and businesses. It just takes time.

Right now the residential areas are mainly concerned with decorative lighting and brick crosswalks rather than having the whole street bricked in. To brick in a street costs a whole lot of money the area doesn't have and the city isn't willing to pay. You can go talk to the Mayor but it isn't going to get you anywhere.

Visit: www.hynca.com (The official Historic Ybor Neighborhood Civic Association website)

Thanks Tampa610 - I really appreciate you taking the time to clarify the fiscal situation in Ybor right now. I certainly can understand where the priorities are right now. I am a bit surprised that it is not even mentioned as a long term plan (esp. for 7th as the heart of the district). It seems to me that it would be good to set it as a goal even if it is a few years away so at least it's on the radar screen so that it is not forgotten as a priority. Perhaps this would be the type of project that developers could contribute to (along the lines of impact fees or for zoning concessions)? Maybe you could at least get the conversation started...it doesn't hurt to dream! Btw - any chance that hideously ugly gas station at I-4 will get renovated to blend in with the look of the National Historic Landmark District (like McDonald's did and the Interstate is)?

Ybor McDonald's did a Great job. It's almost a must see for anyone visiting the area. The music is perfect and the decor looks historic. Now if they could just do something about the food...

Yeah I think that there is nothing that they could do about it.