Construction will start within the month of December

La compagnia è avviata a una gestione positiva grazie a imprenditori coraggiosi»
«Al via a dicembre i lavori per il Ponte»
L'annuncio di Berlusconi a margine del piano di rilancio degli aeroporti. E su Alitalia: «Una sfida quasi vinta»

ROMA - «A dicembre, massimo gennaio, inizieremo la realizzazione del Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina». Lo ha confermato il presidente del Consiglio, Silvio Berlusconi partecipando all’iniziativa «Due hub», ovvero i piani di investimento per Malpensa e Fiumicino, presentata oggi a Villa Madama dalle società che gestiscono i due scali, Sea e Adr.

«ALITALIA VERSO GESTIONE POSITIVA» -Quanto allo sviluppo del sistema aeroproturale italiano, Berlusconi ha sottolineato che «da parte del governo c'è l'impegno a garantire le infrastrutture di collegamento con gli aeroporti». Inoltre, «c'è l'impegno per Milano affinchè le infrastrutture siano pronte per il 2015 quando sarà la vetrina dell'Italia in tutto il mondo». Il capo del governo ha poi commentato la situazione di Alitalia, definendola una compagnia «sicuramente avviata verso una gestione positiva che premia il coraggio di imprenditori che hanno saputo rischiare». «Siamo riusciti - ha sottolineato in particolare - a far restare l'Alitalia nelle nostre mani. La sfida sta per essere vinta, ho visto i risultati di Alitalia a ottobre e ci stiamo avviando verso una gestione positiva, che conferma la giustezza del progetto e premia il coraggio degli imprenditori che hanno saputo rischiare».

DEBITO PUBBLICO E INVESTIMENTI - Dobbiamo «fare i conti» con il debito pubblico che abbiamo «ereditato» ha detto ancora il premier, «ma questa eredità non deve impedirci di innovare e di rimuovere e gli ostacoli» che si frappongono alla realizzazione di infrastrutture «e non deve impedirci di stimolare investimenti pubblici e privati verso ciò che è più urgente».



14 ottobre 2009



http://www.corriere.it/politica/09_ottobre_14/berlusconi-alitalia-ponte-messina_62b17482-b8b6-11de-9ba8-00144f02aabc.shtml

well i'll be damned
this will be a great achievement not just for italy but for europe and mankind!, more than a km longer than the akashi-kaikyo

Unbelievable.
So they're really going to build this bridge? It's really official now?

Unbelievable.
So they're really going to build this bridge? It's really official now?

As official as Berlusconi can be :lol:

As official as Berlusconi can be :lol:

:lol: Amazing!
I must say it's pretty alien to me - to first build a 6 billion euro bridge and then update the infrastructure that could profit from it, but if that's the way that works for them: why not?

And it's a smashing project of course.

:lol: Amazing!
I must say it's pretty alien to me - to first build a 6 billion euro bridge and then update the infrastructure that could profit from it, but if that's the way that works for them: why not?

And it's a smashing project of course.

Undoubtedly an amazing projetc!

on the "why not?" there could be a long list of reasons of why not built this bridge
but as you can see Berlusconi & Co. wont listen (somehow this guy needs to deal with his issues and release his megalomania :lol:).

I just hope that the rest of the desperately nedded "now" infrastructures on Sicily and Calabria get some help,
because so far they are still stuck in the '70 (motorways) if not worse (railway lines designed in 1800)!

Just yesterday I was reading that "Trenitalia" is asking to the "Regional Govment of Sicily"
to get its 120 millions contract signed or they are threatening to cut 17% of the trains.
That makes sense, spend 6 billions on a 3km bridge but pennies on over 1000km of railways :lol: :bash:

In an interview Altero Matteoli, Minister of public infrastructures, just said works will start on December 23rd and conclude within 2016
«Le Polemiche sulle risorse sono sciocchezza madornale»
Ponte sullo Stretto, Matteoli dà le date
«I lavori inizieranno il 23 dicembre»
Il ministro delle Infrastrutture e dei trasporti a Sky Tg24: «I cantieri termineranno nel 2016. In tutto sei anni»

ROMA - «I lavori del Ponte sullo Stretto di Messina inizieranno il 23 dicembre di quest’anno e termineranno nel 2016». Parola del ministro delle Infrastrutture e dei trasporti, Altero Matteoli. Il ministro ha dato la data precisa dell'inizio dei cantieri intervenendo a SkyTg 24. Durata dei lavori sei anni, dunque. Si tratta, come ha spiegato, mercoledì, l'amministratore delegato della società concessionaria Stretto di Messina e commissario per il Ponte sullo Stretto, Pietro Ciucci, dei lavori propedeutici cioè con lo spostamento della linea ferroviaria che passa per Villa San Giovanni.

I SOLDI - «Dei 27,6 miliardi che il Cipe ha approvato, solo 2,8 miliardi sono della legge Obiettivo, soldi dello Stato», ha detto il ministro spiegando a Sky come verrà finanziato il ponte. Altri 7,3 miliardi, continua, «vengono da fondi Fas europei per realizzare infrastrutture, nel Meridione per un 85% e un 15% nel Centro Nord, e oltre 8 miliardi vengono da project financing», ossia «dai privati». Questi ultimi, sottolinea Matteoli, «hanno partecipato attraverso un tavolo in cui abbiamo raggiunto questa cifra».

L'ALLUVIONE - Matteoli ha poi fatto riferimento alle recenti polemiche sulle risorse dopo l’alluvione che ha colpito la provincia di Messina. «Si può essere favorevoli o contrari - ha affermato il ministro - ma sostenere che soldi vanno spesi per mettere in sicurezza le coste di Sicilia e Calabria è una sciocchezza madornale. Non è che il ministero o il governo ha oltre 5 miliardi per costruire Ponte che invece verrà costruito attraverso il project financing. Se non si fa il Ponte questi soldi non ci sono. Il Ponte a caduta riuscirà a migliorare le infrastrutture in Sicilia e Calabria». Ieri il presidente della società Stretto di Messina e commissario per la realizzazione dell’opera, Pietro Ciucci, aveva detto che il cantiere principale si aprirà entro il 2010 e che entro fine 2009 con lo spostamento della linea ferroviaria che passa per villa San partiranno i lavori propedeutici.

LA MAFIA - Rispondendo a chi solleva il problema della presenza della criminalità organizzata nell'area dove si vuol realizzare l'opera il ministro ha sottolineato che «il governo non può fermarsi per la criminalità organizzata, perché questo significherebbe arrendersi». «In questi mesi di governo- aggiunge Matteoli- il ministro Maroni è stato più volte in Calabria per dare il proprio contributo per lo svolgimento dei lavori».


15 ottobre 2009



http://www.corriere.it/politica/09_ottobre_15/matteoli-ponte-stretto_bb36912c-b998-11de-880c-00144f02aabc.shtml

m'kay, when will the next elections be?

^^
On Spring 2010... but they are Regional polls and Sicily is not on the list of the Regions are going to vote (while Calabria is)

how can they start with the constructions when according to eu law you need an open competition for such a huge project?

^^Open competition for what...?

^^ the construction of the bridge itself.

There was an open competition in 2001 I believe.

Whe competition was won by a consortium lead by Impregilo - the largest construction company of Italy and one of the largest of the world - together with several other partners from all over the world

There were other european competitions - the company supervising construction and so on.

Contracts were signed in 2005 if I am not mistaken, months before the elections which unseated Berlusconi government freazing this project

In 2007 the center-left coalition tried to delete the contracts but Antonio Di Pietro - than minister of infrastructures - fought to keep them alive. When Berlusconi swept back to power in 2008 all he had to do was to "reactivate" them. If Italy did not so - by the way - it would have had to pay Impregilo a huge fine (200 million € I think)

Nepotismo...

There was an open competition in 2001 I believe.

Whe competition was won by a consortium lead by Impregilo - the largest construction company of Italy and one of the largest of the world - together with several other partners from all over the world

There were other european competitions - the company supervising construction and so on.

Contracts were signed in 2005 if I am not mistaken, months before the elections which unseated Berlusconi government freazing this project

In 2007 the center-left coalition tried to delete the contracts but Antonio Di Pietro - than minister of infrastructures - fought to keep them alive. When Berlusconi swept back to power in 2008 all he had to do was to "reactivate" them. If Italy did not so - by the way - it would have had to pay Impregilo a huge fine (200 million € I think)
impreglio is a construction firm, if i'not mistaken and can't propose an actual design.
so a construction firm can only offer a bill of quantities for the construction on the basis of detailed drawings of the bridge. those drawings are the result of an eu wide architecture competition which is in the best case won by the most intelligent design/construction and the following plannings.

so if the basis for the project are 8 or 9 year old plans and a similar old bill of quantities ... i'd be a bit suspicious. since 2001 a lot of things have changed. for example the prices of the materials ...

http://www.pacaweb.org/files/Producer%20Price%20Index%20April.jpg

... but also the technology has moved on.
and normally a building licence loses it's validitiy after such a long time of not starting with the construction.
so do you actually know who the architect/engineer of the bridge is, and when the actual design of the bridge was done?

Nepotismo...

:?

Translates as "nepotism"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepotism

impreglio is a construction firm, if i'not mistaken and can't propose an actual design.
so a construction firm can only offer a bill of quantities for the construction on the basis of detailed drawings of the bridge. those drawings are the result of an eu wide architecture competition which is in the best case won by the most intelligent design/construction and the following plannings.

so if the basis for the project are 8 or 9 year old plans and a similar old bill of quantities ... i'd be a bit suspicious. since 2001 a lot of things have changed. for example the prices of the materials ...

http://www.pacaweb.org/files/Producer%20Price%20Index%20April.jpg

... but also the technology has moved on.
and normally a building licence loses it's validitiy after such a long time of not starting with the construction.
so do you actually know who the architect/engineer of the bridge is, and when the actual design of the bridge was done?

the contract as I said was won in 2005, less than 4 years ago and the project was not "executive" at the time. They won a bill to build it as General Contractors. The "executive" project is being made now, that's why the real beginning of the construction of the bridge (not the accessory works which will start in december) will start at the end of 2010.

Impregilo is only the leader of a consortium, and they do not just build stuff, they also make the projects for them

how can a general contractor win a tender without the knowledge of the executive project?
what were they doing back then? guessing the costs on the basis of some preliminary drawings about the most complicate bridge of the world?

look, projects which are financed with public money and cost more than i think something like 150.000 € have to be made puplic in the official journal of the european union to advertised the project for tenders. eu - wide, anonymous and accesible for all architects + structural engineers of the eu. those civil engineers will create a preliminary dwarft. preliminary dwarts are not valid and you can't base a tender on those plans. they are only images which show some basic decissions.

http://europa.eu/policies-activities/tenders-contracts/index_en.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Procurement

a neutral jury will then choose the best, most intelligent, cheapest project and the commissioner of the project will then authorize the winning civil engineer with the plannings.
the project will then be planned in detail. together with the authorities and all the existing construction laws, structural engineers, traffic planners, with neighbours who can request changes, enviromental testings, structural physicians, ...
at the end of this process you get detailed drawings.

the (neutral) office which then creates the bill of quantities based on the detailed drawings can than make the tender. in this bill of quantities 100% of the materials, parts, and labor (and their costs) are itemized and are part of the contract.
every single bolt, it's material, it's length and it's diameter and it's other characteristics is specified in this bill. every single handgrip and it's costs.

the employee only has to fill in the price for every position and return it to the office which created the tender. they will then analyse all the different offers.

all of this is made to create competition, to search for the best, most intelligent and cheapest project and to avoid nepotism.

in this case ... someone made a preliminary dwarft, then someone creatred miraculously a tender out of that and someone then gave a contract for a general contractor to impreglio.

in the italian forum it was said that the preliminary dwarft is from 1993. in those 16 years of course a lot of things have changed. but anyway ... as i got to know the contract for the planning of the most complicated bridge on earth was directly given to some planner and with those 16 years old preliminary dwarft drawings a tender was somehow made which was somehow won by impreglio.

what i'm still interested in is how this project is financed, how much money they already invested for the bridge and whether the executive project, which you say is finished, has been made puplic by now?

^^Can you read the posts or not?

Impregilo is only the leader of a consortium, and they do not just build stuff, they also make the projects for them.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_contractor

It's probably a design-build contract instead of only a "build" contract. They do that with several motorways in Poland too... It's faster.

^^Can you read the posts or not?

Impregilo is only the leader of a consortium, and they do not just build stuff, they also make the projects for them.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_contractor
as i already posted several times. that's according to eu-law in building construction with public money not legal.
+ a general contractor (in german general unternehmer) doesn't plan or design the buildings. in german that's called "total unternehmer". i don't know the english word for that, probably "total contractor", but there are specific laws for general contractors and different types of relationships between commissioner and employee.

i will quote for you the wikipedia article from your response:

A general contractor is responsible for the means and methods to be used in the construction execution of the project in accordance with the contract documents. Said contract documents usually include the contract agreement including budget, the general and special conditions and the plans and specification of the project that are prepared by a design professional such as an architect.

if you would have read the eu law or the wikipedia article you quoted you would know that.

^^You continue to misunderstand. Impregilo will prepare also the executive project. So, I don't think that Impregilo is a "general contractor" but a "total contractor" as you said in your post. However, I don't give a s..t to this project because it's totally useless.

^^You continue to misunderstand. Impregilo will prepare also the executive project. So, I don't think that Impregilo is a "general contractor" but a "total contractor" as you said in your post. However, I don't give a s..t to this project because it's totally useless.
no, i don't misunderstand you. as i said. a total contractor deal is completely against the eu laws.
it would eliminate competition and transparence.

The GC (general contractor) by italian law - which was passed in 2004 according to EU regulations - is responsible for the executive project and the construction - with all means without the state intervention - of the work

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_contractor

Of course there is already a "progetto preliminare" which has been already approved and was used as the base of the competition that Impregilo won

Now the consortium has to make the executive project which will be approved by our CIPE (the state organ which approves the great projects in Italy). Only after that the construction will be able to begin

About impregilo and the competition, please scroll to the bottom

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impregilo

As a suggestion please be less "fundamentalist" in your ideas. The EU doesn't allow big breaches of the law as this would be, at least complains would have been filed.

relax

i quote your wikipedia link:
Un general contractor è il responsabile dei modi e dei metodi utilizzati o che saranno utilizzati in fase di progettazione ed esecuzione dell’opera in accordo con il contratto firmato. I documenti contrattuali includono, solitamente, gli accordi riguardanti il budget, le condizioni generali e speciali e le specifiche del progetto preparate da un progettista professionale quale ad esempio un architetto.
that's the same sentence in italian.

everythin i said is still unanswered. and i don't speak of ideas, i speak of laws and regulations which are imposed by the eu to guarantee competition and transparence.
alone the fact, that the contracts are signed and the project is still not known is breaking those rules. all of that is completely intransparent.
and we are talking here of at least 6 billion €. in reality it will be a lot more. and a part will be payed with eu money.

i quote your wikipedia link:

that's the same sentence in italian.

everythin i said is still unanswered. and i don't speak of ideas, i speak of laws and regulations which are imposed by the eu to guarantee competition and transparence.
alone the fact, that the contracts are signed and the project is still not known is breaking those rules. all of that is completely intransparent.
and we are talking here of at least 6 billion €. in reality it will be a lot more. and a part will be payed with eu money.

The "progetto preliminare" (preliminary project) with all the specifications for the competition - as I repeated over and over again - was not made by Impregilo

In my link it's written that the GC can make the executive project, which is what is gonna happen

Relax, no EU rule was broken.

The "progetto preliminare" (preliminary project) with all the specifications for the competition - as I repeated over and over again - was not made by Impregilo

In my link it's written that the GC can make the executive project, which is what is gonna happen

Relax, no EU rule was broken.
i just think you don't understand what i was writing about and i wont repeat it.
and as long as they use eu tax money for this parody i wont relax.

i just think you don't understand what i was writing about and i wont repeat it.
and as long as they use eu tax money for this parody i wont relax.

good (about repeating yourself) bad (about relaxing) ugly (your comment about my country)

L’INTERVISTA Convegno sindacale a Catania sul futuro del trasporto regionale su ferro........Interview with the Unions
«Le ferrovie agiscono contro il Ponte»......................."The railways are acting against the bridge"
Bernava, segretario Cisl siciliana: «Stanno tagliando treni e traghettamenti».......... "they are cutting trains and ferry crossing"

TONY ZERMO
CATANIA. L’accusa è pesante: «Le Ferrovie........The railways
dello Stato sono contrarie al Ponte..................are against the bridge
sullo Stretto». La lancia il segretario generale
della Cisl Sicilia, Maurizio Bernava
che incontriamo al convegno del
sindacato allo Sheraton dal titolo «Quale
futuro per le ferrovie siciliane». Dice
Bernava: «C’è il problema tragico della
continuità territoriale dello Stretto di
Messina, nel senso che le ferrovie stanno........the railways are
smantellando tutta la loro capacità...............getting rid of their means
di traghettamento e di manovra sullo...................of ferry crossing
Stretto».

Forse pensano che tanto prima o poi si farà il Ponte.........Maybe they are thinking that sooner or later they can use the bridge.

«No, lo fanno perché le ferrovie il ponte......................«No, they are doing it because the railways
non lo vogliono. Quello che stanno...................don't want it. What they are doing
facendo le ferrovie è esattamente il.......................is exactly the
contrario di quel che dovrebbero fare in.........opposite of what they should do in
previsione del Ponte. Il Ponte è un’opera............prevision of the bridge.
ferroviaria. Se una grande azienda di........If a big company
Stato non investe sul traghettamento.........isn't investing on ferry crossing
vuol dire che vuole perdere il mercato................means they want to loose this market
dell’attraversamento. C’è una grande
bugia: o Moretti sul Ponte dice cose
false, o le dice il governo. Noi vogliamo
che si mantenga la continuità territoriale
sullo Stretto, il che vuol dire treni
a lunga e media percorrenza, investimenti
strutturali. Lombardo lo sa e deve
imporre un piano decennale di investimenti
per l’ammodernamento del
sistema per il Nord e dal Nord».

A che punto è la vecchia intesa secondo cui le ferrovie pagherebbero 100 milioni
l’anno per 30 anni per avere il diritto all’attraversamento dei treni sul Ponte?

Railways should pay € 100 millions a year for the next 30 for crossing-rights over the bridge?

«Bisogna vedere cosa è previsto nei
nuovi accordi, ma questo conferma che
il Ponte è essenzialmente ferroviario e
quindi è giusto che le ferrovie, il governo
nazionale e quello regionale, sin da
ora, nella prospettiva del Ponte, facciano
un accordo di programma che modernizzi
nei prossimi dieci anni il sistema
ferroviario in modo da portare in Sicilia
i treni ad alta velocità e ad alta capacità
».
..........................................

I know that I'm a crap translator but hope it helps for those that doesn't speak italian :lol:

With only 5 daily trains left crossing the strait and with more cuts from railways comming in the next years (trains Sicily-Milan/Turin/Venice will go leaving only the train Sicily-Rome) this bridge has even less sense.....

I truly hope this bridge gets to be built!

I know that I'm a crap translator but hope it helps for those that doesn't speak italian :lol:

With only 5 daily trains left crossing the strait and with more cuts from railways comming in the next years (trains Sicily-Milan/Turin/Venice will go leaving only the train Sicily-Rome) this bridge has even less sense.....

From a railways point of view it makes almost no sense, it's true. The demand of travel by train is only between Rome and Sicily, and even that will be a hard sell compared to airplanes

Trains Milan-Sicily make no sense at all, good thing they are scrapping them.

The bridge makes (some) sense only for cars honestly (or mostly for them) and even that is not so necessary, given that there are many means to reach Sicily (airplane, ferry in messina, ferry from naples and so on) which are more convenient or as convenient

But we chose to build it. It's a engineering marvel. It will be a marvel. Let's just build it and worry about it's usage later. I still hope one day Sicily will become a developed region with a much higher demand for transport making the bridge useful

LETS DO THIS THING!

LETS DO THIS THING!

at this point unless Berlusconi is unseated in the next year I think it will happen

But we chose to build it. It's a engineering marvel. It will be a marvel. Let's just build it and worry about it's usage later. I still hope one day Sicily will become a developed region with a much higher demand for transport making the bridge useful

at this point unless Berlusconi is unseated in the next year I think it will happen

Sorry Eddard, but when you say "we" who do you mean?

As far as I know the Sicilians don't put the bridge between the priorities of the island (including me, am Sicilian), so it's not them.

Do you mean Berlusconi and you?
because if this bridge is getting built it's only for the megalomania of Berlusconi,
just a 6 billions penis-extension for a little guy who has lots of unresolt issues!

Sorry Eddard but you can't just say "Let's just build it and worry about it's usage later"
because something like this bridge needs planning, from today to the next 100 years.

What's the point to spend 6 bln for an infrastructure that "maybe" wont be used, or wont be used to its full potential?
what's the point of re-directing billions of money (whereever they are from) from vital/essential infrastructures of the island
and concentrating them on something unessential?

Yes, the project is marvelous,
is it worth the price that Sicily will pay? I don't think so...

What's the point to spend 6 bln for an infrastructure that "maybe" wont be used, or wont be used to its full potential?
what's the point of re-directing billions of money (whereever they are from) from vital/essential infrastructures of the island
and concentrating them on something unessential?

Yes, the project is marvelous,
is it worth the price that Sicily will pay? I don't think so...

what's the point of the millau bridge? they could have built a smaller one, they could have built the highway on an alternate route

what's the point of building an 800 m high tower in the DESERT where there is plenty of space available for free

i tell you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAz7zQ5yKA
(from 4:30)

every once in a while you gotta take a f.in chance, you gotta LIVE a little
we are humans and what makes us human is that we challenge ourselves, we do what is undoable

even if it costs some money...

i'd hate to live in a world of accountants

^^Totally agreed! Great video gramercy!

I really hope Berlusconi wont be unseated...

Sorry Eddard, but when you say "we" who do you mean?

As far as I know the Sicilians don't put the bridge between the priorities of the island (including me, am Sicilian), so it's not them.

Do you mean Berlusconi and you?
because if this bridge is getting built it's only for the megalomania of Berlusconi,
just a 6 billions penis-extension for a little guy who has lots of unresolt issues!

Sorry Eddard but you can't just say "Let's just build it and worry about it's usage later"
because something like this bridge needs planning, from today to the next 100 years.

What's the point to spend 6 bln for an infrastructure that "maybe" wont be used, or wont be used to its full potential?
what's the point of re-directing billions of money (whereever they are from) from vital/essential infrastructures of the island
and concentrating them on something unessential?

Yes, the project is marvelous,
is it worth the price that Sicily will pay? I don't think so...

We as we italians. I am not sicilian and I never voted for Berlusconi (i am left-wing). However my government chose to build it, at this point it's pointless to be against it. By the way...Sicily will not pay for it (almost nothing). Italy will pay as a whole (and europe too...20% of the bill)


Overdimensioned---today

The sense of my post is that - as it is - the bridge is surely overdimensioned for Sicily and it's demand of railway/street traffic. However hopefully one day Sicily will not be poor as it is now, the bridge will become "efficient" than. In Dubai surely 20 years ago did not need the infrastructures they built...they did it anyway.

A symbol

I may agree there were better priorities but peoples live also for symbols. Italy needs a symbol for a new path for growth. The italian south needs to demonstrate it can do world-class adventures.

And so be it. Let's start on this difficult road and see what lies in front of us. Better the ones that dare to build than the ones that dare not.

what the italian south needs is a perfect transport system.
up until now most of the region is heavily car dependent, which already costs now a lot of money and will get even more expensive as for example the costs for the raw materials will increase.
and all this in a region where a lot of people struggle to make it through the month with their wages.
one of the arguments pro-bridge i constantly here is that you might gain 1-2 hours because you don't have to wait for the ferrys any more. and i'm not even mentioning that the ferrys are up to 40 years old and it might be enough just to buy new and faster ones. don't know if they even need bigger ones.
but those 1-2 hours you gain because of the bridge you'll lose in sicily or calabria because neither the train net nor the other transport networks are sufficient. in my opinion the mobility has to be increased within the cities palermo, catania, messina, ... and between those cities and not between messina and reggio.
now that would really effect the lives and the economy of the region and would save some money for those who have to pay attention to their spendings.
the bridge instead ... as i read and i'm not sure whether that is true or not ... will be funded with private money and than the state will rebuy the bridge over some timespan. now if that's true and i put this together with the other things my scepticism is even growing.

no, i don't misunderstand you. as i said. a total contractor deal is completely against the eu laws.
it would eliminate competition and transparence.

Ah, O.K. my fault...got it. However, this is a useless project, in my opinion. There are more useful projects to do in Italy.

what the italian south needs is a perfect transport system.
up until now most of the region is heavily car dependent, which already costs now a lot of money and will get even more expensive as for example the costs for the raw materials will increase.
and all this in a region where a lot of people struggle to make it through the month with their wages.
one of the arguments pro-bridge i constantly here is that you might gain 1-2 hours because you don't have to wait for the ferrys any more. and i'm not even mentioning that the ferrys are up to 40 years old and it might be enough just to buy new and faster ones. don't know if they even need bigger ones.
but those 1-2 hours you gain because of the bridge you'll lose in sicily or calabria because neither the train net nor the other transport networks are sufficient. in my opinion the mobility has to be increased within the cities palermo, catania, messina, ... and between those cities and not between messina and reggio.
now that would really effect the lives and the economy of the region and would save some money for those who have to pay attention to their spendings.
the bridge instead ... as i read and i'm not sure whether that is true or not ... will be funded with private money and than the state will rebuy the bridge over some timespan. now if that's true and i put this together with the other things my scepticism is even growing.

I absolutely agree.

Ah, O.K. my fault...got it. However, this is a useless project, in my opinion. There are more useful projects to do in Italy.

I absolutely agree.

sorry guys, but this is the kind of cant-do attitude that is pulling europe back with the exception of switzerland, spain and france

look at the germans and the austrians: they have OODLES of cash yet they will NOT build 300-360 kph rail, no...it takes them 20 goddamn years to build 1-200 kms of 250 kph (i'm referring to the karlsruhe-wien connection)

look at the british who havent been able to put together a high-speed rail network in 40 years

this is exactly why europe will fall behind asia, we are just too tight-fisted


i mean, italy is a ~2300 billion dollar / year economy
and you are telling me that a 6 billion bridge that will be built over 6 years (1 bn a year) and will stand there for HUNDREDS of years is too costly?

lets say 1 or 2 bn euros of those 6 will never be returned

so what????? italy is a 2300 bn dollar economy a YEAR

sorry guys, but this is the kind of cant-do attitude that is pulling europe back with the exception of switzerland, spain and france

look at the germans and the austrians: they have OODLES of cash yet they will NOT build 300-360 kph rail, no...it takes them 20 goddamn years to build 1-200 kms of 250 kph (i'm referring to the karlsruhe-wien connection)

this is exactly why europe will fall behind asia, we are just too tight-fisted


i mean, italy is a ~2300 billion dollar / year economy
and you are telling me that a 6 billion bridge that will be built over 6 years (1 bn a year) and will stand there for HUNDREDS of years is too costly?

lets say 1 or 2 bn euros of those 6 will never be returned

so what????? italy is a 2300 bn dollar economy a YEAR

Do you live in Italy?
Have you tryied to cross Sicily?
or go from Naples to Messina?
any idea what is public transport in southern Italy?

Italy maybe on paper looks like has a healthy economy, the reality is that in Italy families are struggling to get o the end of the month because a shit economy that pushed italian wages to the lowest in Europe but pushed prices to the highest. I live in the UK and earn twice as much as I would earn in Italy and spend 30% less of what I would pay in Italy.

I visit Sicily few times a year and I can assure you that without a car in Sicily you are quite fxxked because the public transport is limited to a parassitic system of bus-lines that live on regional founding.

The motorways that get used daily from Messina to Catania, Messina to Palermo, Reggio to Naples were all designed and built (mostly) in the 1970s and are in a ridiculous state. Will they complete the owned maintenace on these roads by 2016? hehehe no chance :lol:

Will they compete the missing roads in Sicily by 2016? Catania-Ragusa, Caltanissetta-Agrigento, Sciacca-Palermo, Siracusa-Gela? again, no chance :lol:

Will they complete the double-track railway from Messina to Palermo and from Messina to Catania? Hehehe no chance :lol::lol::lol:

All the above infrastructures are needed now, well before the bridge, they are already late for this roads and railways.

Can Italy afford this bridge?...definietly NOT.

what's the point of the millau bridge? they could have built a smaller one, they could have built the highway on an alternate route

Have you seen the region? I personally haven't, but I can easily see on Google Earth that within at least 19 kilometres there's no alternative to place the bridge... There are some spaces where the length of the bridge would've been much shorter, but I assume those were just too windy or didn't have the proper soil for a bridge.

The point of the Millau bridge is quite obvious: alleviate the serious and dangerous traffic problems in Millau and fix the only gap within "La Méridienne" (that's the name of the highway).

Greetings,
Glodenox

and you are telling me that a 6 billion bridge that will be built over 6 years (1 bn a year) and will stand there for HUNDREDS of years is too costly?


We also need to add that the cost for the Millau bridge, as far as I know, was less than € 500 mlns......not € 6 billions.

Having lived in Italy for over 18 years I seriously dout that this bridge will be built in 6 years,
we don't even know when they will start, and overall, if 6 billions will be enough.

Central France is not at risk of earthquakes as it is the "Strait of Messina", stand there for HUNDREDS of years....
will see, we will talk after the first earthquake.
Sicily has regular small earthquakes every year, and big earthquakes (5 to 7 Richter) every 5-8 yeras, it might survive the first 2 or 3...

what's the point of the millau bridge? they could have built a smaller one, they could have built the highway on an alternate route


Nope, there used to be an alternate route, going down the city of Millau, and it was disastrous. The whole area is canyons and gorges so if you want a straight and quick way a tall viaduct is the only solution.

As a matter of fact, the viaduct is a high commercial success enjoying a bigger use rate than first anticipated.

Nope, there used to be an alternate route, going down the city of Millau, and it was disastrous. The whole area is canyons and gorges so if you want a straight and quick way a tall viaduct is the only solution.

i realize all that, but as J/C says in the video, they could have built the highway elsewhere, lower down with tunnels or several dozen kms away
i'm sure the bridge wasnt the only alternative considered



As a matter of fact, the viaduct is a high commercial success enjoying a bigger use rate than first anticipated.

i never said it wasnt

We also need to add that the cost for the Millau bridge, as far as I know, was less than € 500 mlns......not € 6 billions.

fine, now take a look at the cost of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, the Channel Tunnel or the proposed Brenner Base Tunnel (incidentally, also 6bn)
so you see there ARE plenty of projects in this price range


Having lived in Italy for over 18 years I seriously dout that this bridge will be built in 6 years,
we don't even know when they will start, and overall, if 6 billions will be enough.


i dont doubt this, i will just add, that the longer it takes, the less money / year..., or if the cost increases with it, the money/year may remain the same



Central France is not at risk of earthquakes as it is the "Strait of Messina", stand there for HUNDREDS of years....
will see, we will talk after the first earthquake.
Sicily has regular small earthquakes every year, and big earthquakes (5 to 7 Richter) every 5-8 yeras, it might survive the first 2 or 3...

fine, now look at Akashi-Kaikyo and the earthquake that shifted the bridge while it was under construction


naysayers and nimbys always find excuses

i seriously doubt (even in italy) that they would build the bridge without sufficiently planning for the earthquakes and the possible effects over hundred(s) of years

it will be very tough, sure
but i refuse to believe for a second that it is impossible

so you would do it because it is technically possible and because it's big and spectacular and bling bling with a lot of superlatives?
or do you wanna do it because you have enough money to spend and you think with this investment you have done the best for the majority of the people and the society?
in other words: is this about satisfying your need for bling bling and to impress the asians with our new european superbridge or do you wanna solve the daily problems of the local people?

in other words: is this about satisfying your need for bling bling and to impress the asians with our new european superbridge or do you wanna solve the daily problems of the local people?

If the second happens, what do you have against the first? We are just men, in one way or another, we all want to shine...
"Vanity, definitely my favorite sin..." - The Devil's Advocate

qGXvj2BjZLA

fine, now take a look at the cost of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, the Channel Tunnel or the proposed Brenner Base Tunnel (incidentally, also 6bn)
so you see there ARE plenty of projects in this price range

Again, you are talking about areas of Europe that:
1. Have already the infrastructures to support/complete those tunnels
2. Have a population/users that justify those projects.
3. Have an economy that can afford to invest in something that in the long run will pay back the effort.

Gotthard Base Tunnel: Switzerland-(Northern Italy)
Channel Tunnel: France-Great Brittain
Brenner Base Tunnel: Northern Italy-Austria-(Germany)

Messina Bridge: Sicily-Calabria..........= Southern Italy

I think the names of the countries above speak for themselves.

i dont doubt this, i will just add, that the longer it takes, the less money / year..., or if the cost increases with it, the money/year may remain the same

History is teaching us that every single engineering project in Italy,
1. Was completed after the programmed finishing date.
2. Every time ratio money/year has increased.
3. Even if it stays the same (no chance to decrease), it is still suicidal (economically).

fine, now look at Akashi-Kaikyo and the earthquake that shifted the bridge while it was under construction

This bridge has a span of 3.300m, not 1.990m. This mens that it has a span 65% longer than the Akashi-Kaikyo....... + 65%
The Akashi-Kaikyo has only 3 road lanes (it's still a great bridge), this bridge will have 6 road lanes (4+2) and 2 railway tracks!

i seriously doubt (even in italy) that they would build the bridge without sufficiently planning for the earthquakes and the possible effects over hundred(s) of years

it will be very tough, sure
but i refuse to believe for a second that it is impossible

I'm sure that on paper the project will be possible...I never said it's impossible,
I always said: Sicily/Italy CAN NOT AFFORD IT.

so you would do it because it is technically possible and because it's big and spectacular and bling bling with a lot of superlatives?
or do you wanna do it because you have enough money to spend and you think with this investment you have done the best for the majority of the people and the society?
in other words: is this about satisfying your need for bling bling and to impress the asians with our new european superbridge or do you wanna solve the daily problems of the local people?

yes

3. Even if it stays the same (no chance to decrease), it is still suicidal (economically).

i refuese to believe that 1 bn in a 2300 bn / year economy is "suicide"




This bridge has a span of 3.300m, not 1.990m. This mens that it has a span 65% longer than the Akashi-Kaikyo....... + 65%


what of it?


The Akashi-Kaikyo has only 3 road lanes (it's still a great bridge), this bridge will have 6 road lanes (4+2) and 2 railway tracks!

the akashi has 2x(3+1)=8 lanes, this one would have 2x(2+1) + 2 railway = 8 "lanes"



I always said: Sicily/Italy CAN NOT AFFORD IT.
ok

i realize all that, but as J/C says in the video, they could have built the highway elsewhere, lower down with tunnels or several dozen kms away
i'm sure the bridge wasnt the only alternative considered

The massif central is a piece of shit though, if they take a different way they would end up with a serpentine looking motorway. Actually, not so far from Millau's Viaduct, there's another big viaduct which has a 144m high road deck (in Verrieres), so as you can imagine the whole area is messy.

http://www.aveyronweb.com/images/viaducverrieres.jpg

yes
ah ok. so it's like you wanna buy a big fat ferrari you can't afford to impress your new neighbours.
and after you showed it to the neighbours you tell yourself to have had a good time ... and then? what comes then? is that your concept?

ah ok. so it's like you wanna buy a big fat ferrari you can't afford to impress your new neighbours.
and after you showed it to the neighbours you tell yourself to have had a good time ... and then? what comes then? is that your concept?

it is your (and the oppositons) opinion, that italy cant afford this bridge

i think it can

it is your (and the oppositons) opinion, that italy cant afford this bridge

i think it can

It actually can afford it

By the way part of the cost will be covered by the private consortium (I think 40%) which will repay the investment through the bridge transit payments

So the state and the community will spend less than 6 billion €...which is anyway a fraction of what we spent in 10 years over the HSR lines (we spent 35 billion € in little more than 10 years)

The question is: those billions are best spent on the bridge? maybe not. But it is a fascinating project...at this point I am for it

it is your (and the oppositons) opinion, that italy cant afford this bridge

i think it can
so show me where the money comes from.
and show me where then the money is coming from for the necessary public traffic infrastructure in sicily and calabria. those investments are urgent.
and then show me which business man will be mad enough to invest hundrets of millions of € or even billions in a bridge which will according to official announcments repay itself over the next 60 years.
and those are the official figures. so in reality it will take even more than that.
which means that the investors most probably wont even see their money back within their lifetime.
well, i can only guess which sort of private investors will thankfully invest in that bridge...

so show me where the money comes from.
and show me where then the money is coming from for the necessary public traffic infrastructure in sicily and calabria. those investments are urgent.
and then show me which business man will be mad enough to invest hundrets of millions of € or even billions in a bridge which will according to official announcments repay itself over the next 60 years.
and those are the official figures. so in reality it will take even more than that.
which means that the investors most probably wont even see their money back within their lifetime.
well, i can only guess which sort of private investors will thankfully invest in that bridge...

there are already the business man and investors, it's Impregilo which won the competition and will build part of the infrastructure without public money and getting back it through the payments of the bridge.

It's called Project Financing

there are already the business man and investors, it's Impregilo which won the competition and will build part of the infrastructure without public money and getting back it through the payments of the bridge.

It's called Project Financing
what? so impreglio is practically doing everything ... they are designing, building and even financing this bridge? :lol:
how believable is that? no construction firm on this planet has the cash, especially within this economic enviroment with this severe real estate crises, to invest billions of euros into a bridge which repay itself over 60 years.

what? so impreglio is practically doing everything ... they are designing, building and even financing this bridge? :lol:
how believable is that? no construction firm on this planet has the cash, especially within this economic enviroment with this severe real estate crises, to invest billions of euros into a bridge which repay itself over 60 years.

Well, then pick up the phone and tell them they are wrong. It's their investment...

Well, then pick up the phone and tell them they are wrong. It's their investment...
impreglio this year made a nine month net profit of 37.3 million euros.
they wont finance a more than 6 billion € bridge which officially refinance itself within 60 years.

in my opinion this is a story the politicians told the public to keep them quiet. this bridge is a political present for whoever ... i don't know, i can only guess. but i would bet some of my money that in the end tax money will flow and pay the bills.

what? so impreglio is practically doing everything ... they are designing, building and even financing this bridge? :lol:
how believable is that? no construction firm on this planet has the cash, especially within this economic enviroment with this severe real estate crises, to invest billions of euros into a bridge which repay itself over 60 years.

It's PF, used all over the world. In reality they do not pay in "cash" the construction but in "nature": ie their own construction works.

It is not of course the total cost of the bridge, I do not remember the exact amount but it shall be about 40% of the total cost which will be sustained by Impregilo and the other parters

Than after the bridge is built they start getting payments for 60 years...no one said it will take that long to return of the investment of 40% of the cost (which includes their margins). It may take much less, depending on the traffic.

It's just financial stuff

impreglio this year made a nine month net profit of 37.3 million euros.
they wont finance a more than 6 billion € bridge which officially refinance itself within 60 years.

in my opinion this is a story the politicians told the public to keep them quiet. this bridge is a political present for whoever ... i don't know, i can only guess. but i would bet some of my money that in the end tax money will flow and pay the bills.

do not confuse profit with investment. you can make billion € investment using levy (ie debts) and without using at all the previous years profit...actually companies never invest using profits

again, it's the wonderful world of finance

It's PF, used all over the world. In reality they do not pay in "cash" the construction but in "nature": ie their own construction works.

It is not of course the total cost of the bridge, I do not remember the exact amount but it shall be about 40% of the total cost which will be sustained by Impregilo and the other parters

Than after the bridge is built they start getting payments for 60 years...no one said it will take that long to return of the investment of 40% of the cost (which includes their margins). It may take much less, depending on the traffic.

It's just financial stuff
if i see it i will believe it. but before i don't see it with my own eyes i think this story is a fairytale and i refuse to believe it.
so 40% of the costs will be about 3 billion euros, maybe more. so if you cut the profit they calculated they will have to spend at least 2 billion probably a lot more. to pay in nature is something which doesn't work if you have to pay for your staff and your materials and all the rest.
before the first car can cross that bridge years and years will pass. and when the bridge will finally be ready the running costs of this highly fragile and complicated bridge will be very high.
the traffic volume south of naples isn't very high. the economic strength neither. so it will take decades to refinance those investmens. already the ferry's produce debts. and official sources assume a break even 60 years from now. 60 years! and that's only a guess. noone knows what will happen in those 60 years and how the traffic will change. so that's nothing more than a number. nothing to base an investment on.

so in a situation where the real estate market implodes (impregilo lost more than the half of their profits. 70% if i remember it right.) and the construction business struggles to survive ... impregilo leaves it's basic workfield to spend their whole annual revenue into a project of a notoriously unprofitable business sector which will be finished years from now and maybe will make some small profit if they are lucky 10 years from now. which infrastructure project is a cash cow anyway? the tunnel between england and france for example wasn't. and a bridge between reggio and messina doesn't sound like one too.

my guess is that a lot of "private business man" will discharge their offshore accounts and use their money of unknown origin to white wash it with this bridge. and the law which was recently passed or will be passed by the berlusconi government which gives in some ways amnesia to money of unknown origin fits quite well into this picture.
you know that sometimes politicians have to give a favour to the people who will repay it them with votes and other favours. and actually it was only berlusconi who wanted this bridge. and actually it is berlusconi who is notoriously linked with some of those local "private business men" with a lot of cash, probably bunkered on offshore accounts waiting to whitewash it.
and the state will repay them their investments via trenitalia or something else.

As an Italian citizen, I ought to say that majority of people support this project, which have been on the table for decades! We don't want to be separated by a creepy and slow ferry service from our loved island.

Like always, opposition to big infrastructure projects (the HS rail main axis which will open Dec 13th being a quintessential example) come from:

1. People directly negatively affected by the project, like unions from ferry companies.

2. BANANAs and NIMBYS who wish Southern Italy were still a malaria-plagued, no running-water, widespread malnoursihd children (like in the aftermath of WW2) place so it would look more "natural" or "sustainable".

3. Vested interests in ferry transport.

Technically speaking there have been, elsewhere, a lot of bridge construction over fault earthquake zone. Japan was an example, Lisbon would be another. The cost is a fraction of what has been spent in building the Torino-Salerno high speed rail. Together with retification and modernization of A3 highway (which, albeit slow, is progressing - so far more than 61% of it have already been renovated and opened for traffic), it will be a major accomplishment not only for Italy, but also for Europe.

For those who argue that Italy cannot afford any major infrastructure project before all urban problems are solved, I'd like to aks how would you like our country to look like? No freeways, no high speed rail, no new urban development, no new seaports... anything? Should we still been using the Roman-age roads? Italy has its fair share of "local" problems eveywhere (as most Western European countries have also), but it should not stop us for building the things that generates jobs, income, and growht.

Indeed, it is a SHAME that such a close island is still detached from mainland! 5,6 million people live in Sicily, and they will be hugely benefited by this bridge - just look at what happened at Prince Edward Island, a much less populated and further into the ocean island in Canada which was finally linked to mainland in 1993.

We, Italians, built a freeway network that was the most impressive in Europe until the 1970's. When NATM or shields were on their early ages, we were digging through Autostrada dei Fiori (Genova - Nice) or the Appenines (A1). Then (I cannot yet believe it), some leftist politicians vowed to pass a law forbiding any new freeway construction in 1974 (improvements, bypasses, conclusion of already scheduled works and lane expansion were not prohibited), which was repaled only en 1992. Together with France and Switzerland, we escavated Frejus, Monte Bianco (Mont Blanc) and St. Bernard Tunnels!

The Ponte sul Stretto is our opportunity to catch up with impressive viaducts French are building, expansion of Autobahns, massive Swiss tunnels and so on.

by italian forum:

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the italian thread:
PONTE SULLO STRETTO DI MESSINA - IX

:okay:

on 23th Dicember will start the propedeutic works in Calabria coast. (Cannitello)

Vitrual trip on the strait of messina bridge:

HVS-n_LvoHY&feature=related

good (about repeating yourself) bad (about relaxing) ugly (your comment about my country)

michaelII has a racist complex against Italy and italians but he is substantially right. So, if in the EU tax money there is a big part which is italian money i worry about the future use of MY money, also.

Which lanes are for pedestrians and cycles?

This is not an urban bridge... I think nobody would ever make it by foot or bike! ;)

If someone wants to go to sicily by foot/bike he will take a ferry! :)

This is not an urban bridge...

What is the town of Villa S. G. like? And what is now in Cannitello where the bridge ends?

The project of Strait of Messina Bridge loooking great; i hope they will start built it soon

What is the town of Villa S. G. like? And what is now in Cannitello where the bridge ends?

Villa San Giovanni is just the nearest little city between Sicily & Calabria (and so italian peninsula) where start and arrive the ferry actually.
Cannitello is a fraction where will moved the railway to starts with propedeutic works.

http://maps.google.it/maps?hl=it&tab=wl

Cannitello:
http://maps.google.it/maps?hl=it&tab=wl

The project of Strait of Messina Bridge loooking great; i hope they will start built it soon

:okay:

Villa San Giovanni is just the nearest little city between Sicily & Calabria (and so italian peninsula) where start and arrive the ferry actually.
Cannitello is a fraction where will moved the railway to starts with propedeutic works.


What is now the preferred terminal station for trains to Sicily - Villa San Giovanni, or Reggio di Calabria?

I see that the railway shall branch at Scylla between the line to Reggio di Calabria and the line to Sicily. What will be the last major station before Scylla?

What is now the preferred terminal station for trains to Sicily - Villa San Giovanni, or Reggio di Calabria?

I see that the railway shall branch at Scylla between the line to Reggio di Calabria and the line to Sicily. What will be the last major station before Scylla?

At the moment ALL trains ferring across to Sicily leave from Villa San Giovanni.

The last "major" station before Scilla will be Lamezia Terme, over 100km north.

At the moment ALL trains ferring across to Sicily leave from Villa San Giovanni.

The last "major" station before Scilla will be Lamezia Terme, over 100km north.

Thank you for the answer and sorry for my english
:)

P.S.
(parramuci a rausana ca' ni capisciunu u' stissu! :lol: :lol:)

At the moment ALL trains ferring across to Sicily leave from Villa San Giovanni.

The last "major" station before Scilla will be Lamezia Terme, over 100km north.

Do any trains go to Reggio?

I see that on Sicilian side, the railway shall go through Messina central city and only then branch to Palermo and Syracuse, so people who actually want to go to Messina may travel on either trains to Palermo or trains to Syracuse. But how will Reggio be served with trains? Trains between Messina and Reggio would presumably have to change direction at Scylla?

Do any trains go to Reggio?

I see that on Sicilian side, the railway shall go through Messina central city and only then branch to Palermo and Syracuse, so people who actually want to go to Messina may travel on either trains to Palermo or trains to Syracuse. But how will Reggio be served with trains? Trains between Messina and Reggio would presumably have to change direction at Scylla?

As far as I know there are no direct trains between Messina and Reggio Calabria, all have to change in Villa.
And Yes, any train that should go from Messina to Reggio will have to change direction in Scilla.

There are many plans about...erm...citytrains?....I mean...there is alot of talking bla bla bla but nothing real.

It is more likely than the proposed project of the <<Metro of the Sea>> , marked with Ps
hydrofoils running between the two cities, touching several piers on either side,
will be the main connection between Messina and Reggio.

I also found this map that shows a different route of the railwayline in Messina,
Red and Pink line shold be railway, Pink also marks the existing <<Tunnel of the Peloritani>>.
No idea if is rubbish or the planned route

http://i47.tinypic.com/2w20wm1.jpg

Thank you for the answer and sorry for my english
:)

P.S.
(parramuci a rausana ca' ni capisciunu u' stissu! :lol: :lol:)

Internazionali! :lol:

In the end, is construction going to start this December?

In the end, is construction going to start this December?

Confirm,
are about to leave work (Wednesday, 23 Dicmebre :banana: ) preparatory to the construction of the bridge. In practice this is to move the railroad tracks to Cannitello (Calabria) to make room for future piers.
In January (or so they said) leave those on shore of Sicily.
No official ceremony.

:okay: :cheers2:

No official ceremony.

:okay: :cheers2:

The ceremony has been cancelled because the His Highness Emperor MiniMussolini Berlusconi (also know as the 8th dwarf) has lost his denture in an accident whilst showing off as usual and therefore wont be able to smile for the next few weeks. Plastic surgeons and ortodontist are already at work to give us all back the smile of the Fürer of Italy to have ceremony in the very near future:

E4s_hRMib30

The ceremony has been cancelled because the His Highness Emperor MiniMussolini Berlusconi (also know as the 8th dwarf) has lost his denture in an accident whilst showing off as usual and therefore wont be able to smile for the next few weeks. Plastic surgeons and ortodontist are already at work to give us all back the smile of the Fürer of Italy to have ceremony in the very near future:


Please do likewise here to leave aside policies on issues that affect anyone.We speak only of the bridge! In matters of national and international policies are appropriate thread.On 23 December, work will begin: with or without Berlusconi or any other political formation.
:)

Records Technicians

The bridge over the Strait of Messina is one the most impressive and technologically advanced ever created by man.

Record the span of the Bridge of Messina, for example, topped with its 3300 meters, the longest light, only road that was never built so far in the world (1,991 meters Akashi Bridge) of the 65.74% while compared to the largest road bridge and rail far achieved (1,377 meters Tsing Ma Bridge) it would record more than double.

The final draft of the Messina Bridge provides the slaughter of a large length of many technical records held by similar operations. Each element of Italian opera, in fact, is unique and totally unprecedented:


Record Technicians:

3,300 m central span - 1991 meters Akashi Bridge (Japan)
Dell'impalcato width of 60.4 meters - 41 meters Tsing Ma Bridge (Hong Kong)
382.60 meters high tower - 297 meters Akashi Bridge (Japan)
4 cables in the suspension system - 2 wires Akashi Bridge (Japan)
1.24 meters diameter of the suspension cables - 1.12 meters Akashi Bridge (Japan)
44,352 strands of steel cable - 36,830 Akashi Bridge (Japan)

Challengers:

Akashi Bridge (Japan) - Bridge Street with only three lanes for each direction. Is the main challenger of the Messina Bridge.
The seat was abolished railway project under construction for the long span suspended may be subject to fluctuations as a result of strong cross winds to the structure (galloping) limiting the safety rails.

Total length 3911 m with a central span of 1991 m (representing 60.33% of that for the bridge of Messina), height of 283 m.
Tsing Ma Bridge (Hong Kong) - Suspension Bridge, which boasts the current world record for the longest road and rail-based scaffolds, supported by a central span of 1377 meters (42% of that planned for the Bridge of Messina) and with tall masts 206 meters.

The Tsing Ma Bridge (Hong Kong) is the seventh for free span suspension bridge in the world but is the first capable of handling six lanes of road traffic and two rail tracks.

Environment


25% of minor environmental impact and landscaping, compared to the 1992 Draft
21 km of railway tunnels eliminated
2,000 meters of bridges eliminated value Paths
12,750,000 tons of wood saved in 30 years compared to the ferry (an indicator of energy balance and emissions of exhaust gases)
environmental monitoring activities during the final design and throughout construction and management work


http://www.pontedimessina.it/it/ambiente-ponte-di-messina.html

Environment


25% of minor environmental impact and landscaping, compared to the 1992 Draft
21 km of railway tunnels eliminated
2,000 meters of bridges eliminated value Paths
12,750,000 tons of wood saved in 30 years compared to the ferry (an indicator of energy balance and emissions of exhaust gases)
environmental monitoring activities during the final design and throughout construction and management work


http://www.pontedimessina.it/it/ambiente-ponte-di-messina.html...One should rather point out that these data are coming from the joint-venture that is supposed to build the bridge... ("Ponte di Messina S.P.A.") and as such are heavily biased... opposition to the bridge is as strong as ever.

...One should rather point out that these data are coming from the joint-venture that is supposed to build the bridge... ("Ponte di Messina S.P.A.") and as such are heavily biased... opposition to the bridge is as strong as ever.

Absolutely right!
and just today there was an other demostration against this bridge hold in Villa San Giovanni with some mayors of the local councils joining in to protest and demanding that priority should be given to other infrastructure.

I think that sais it all................

Confirm,
are about to leave work (Wednesday, 23 Dicmebre :banana: ) preparatory to the construction of the bridge. In practice this is to move the railroad tracks to Cannitello (Calabria) to make room for future piers.
In January (or so they said) leave those on shore of Sicily.
No official ceremony.

:okay: :cheers2:

Is the project UNDER CONSTRUCTION now ?!


I hope so...

December start for Messina bridge.

16 October, 2009

http://www.nce.co.uk/pictures/550x400fitpad[150]/5/1/5/1213515_messina_crossing_New_2.jpg

Work on a long-envisioned and bitterly contested bridge connecting Sicily to mainland Italy will begin in December, the infrastructure minister said Thursday.


Construction on the €5 bn (£4.6bn) project will begin December 23 and will last until 2016, employing some 40,000 people, Altero Matteoli told Italy’s Sky TG24 TV.

The initial work will prepare the ground for the 3,690m (12,000 ft) long bridge by moving a railroad on the mainland and building roads near the Sicilian city of Messina, he said.

The concept of a bridge spanning the Strait of Messina has been debated in Italy since the 19th century.

Government after government has promised to embark on one of the biggest public works projects in Italy’s history only to back down in the face of the high costs and risks tied to what would be one of the world’s longest suspension bridges.

Critics maintain the money would be better spent on improving infrastructure in Italy’s underdeveloped south, saying the mammoth bridge, with six main traffic lanes, would be of little use in an area that has few and narrow highways.

Matteoli told Sky that much of the money would come from private funding tied to project, so the bridge would not take up resources that could be used elsewhere.

Environmental groups have said the bridge will damage the environment, in particular bird migrations, and poses a danger because of the risk of earthquakes in the highly seismic area.

In 2001, a government commissioned study also acknowledged there was a risk of mob infiltration in the project, mainly due to the huge sums of money involved.

Link: http://www.nce.co.uk/news/structures/december-start-for-messina-bridge/5209578.article

Narrow bridge, via the work of the first building


Roma, 23 dic (Velino) - They started the work today of the first building for the construction of the bridge on the Messina Strait. This is the diversion of the existing railway line next to the Tyrrhenian Cannitello to resolve the interference with the future construction of the tower of the bridge, side Calabria. Has a value of around 26 million euros and also represents the first phase of a larger project to move ahead of Battipaglia-Reggio Calabria railway line, which will make available approximately 4 miles of waterfront between Villa San Giovanni and Santa Trada. The work assigned to the Contractor General Eurolink - awarded the international tender for the construction of the bridge over the Strait of Messina - the first phase will cover the preliminary activities relating to authorization for the occupation of areas remediation activities with weapons, to securing and clearing the area of the yard, and on activities of investigation for the identification of possible areas to be reclaimed or waste to be allocated at landfills planned.

The business of building a new railway line will last 18 months and will participate mainly local companies. "We are respecting the times that we had allocated for the re-start public works - said Minister of Infrastructure and Transport, Altero Matteoli -. Today depart on time even the first preparatory work Strait Bridge will continue next year and also on Sicilian coast. It is essential for work to start building the artifact, but necessary, regardless of the bridge. A work that the Government considers a priority and for which they were made all the necessary steps and not easy to achieve it. The bridge is not will be a white elephant, like the opera critics argue, will instead be an infrastructure unique in the world, that will generate growth, employment and economic growth and that a cascade result in the realization of other infrastructure work necessary to Calabria and Sicily . I refer to roads, rail, other departments so lacking in this beautiful area. The start of today's proceedings demonstrates the ability of this government to maintain its commitments in the program presented to citizens and is a concrete example of policy of making that characterizes our work.

"It 'was a decisive year for the restart of the bridge over the Straits of Messina," said the CEO of Stretto di Messina, Pietro Ciucci. "We passed, with the constant support of the Government and in particular the Minister of Infrastructure, all problems due to the work of the 2006 block. We signed agreements with companies, updated and signed by the grantor Ministry of Equipment, the Convention will annex the new business plan, approved two days ago was the capital increase the Company's Strait of Messina to 900 million euros. These amount to 2.5 billion euros the resources allocated to the Company for the construction of the bridge over the Straits of Messina, while the remaining amount will be raised on financial markets in the manner typical of project finance. Today, with the opening of the first construction, we are in full realization phase, it remains the regret of having lost 3 years which would have allowed a decisive progress on the contrary the project with economic benefits that would have been even more important to accelerate the exit from the crisis economic areas directly affected by the works. Soon we will be able to start even the first preparatory works on the Sicilian. Meanwhile, activities are underway for the drafting of the final draft which will be in the second half of 2010 subject to regulatory approvals. In a few days also take away even the activities of environmental monitoring, including monitoring and careful studies on water, air, fauna, flora. These are actions that will affect an area over 36 square kilometers, equivalent to ten times the area of construction of the bridge.

http://www.ilvelino.it/articolo.php?Id=1028857

EDIT

(double post :bash:)

...One should rather point out that these data are coming from the joint-venture that is supposed to build the bridge... ("Ponte di Messina S.P.A.") and as such are heavily biased... opposition to the bridge is as strong as ever.

:|
Already! But who better than they can tell us what they are producing?
:nuts:

Absolutely right!
and just today there was an other demostration against this bridge hold in Villa San Giovanni with some mayors of the local councils joining in to protest and demanding that priority should be given to other infrastructure.

I think that sais it all................

^^
those (infrastructure) should be made as well. Whatever.
And then only the Calabrian right to protest .... they give a shit so fuck the bridge?!

Boys, more science and less ideology, and future!

Is the project UNDER CONSTRUCTION now ?!


I hope so...

^^
Exactly! The final draft (or executive), what will the real building site infrastructure, will be ready by June 2010.
So we were assured by the CEO of Stretto di Messina SpA, Pietro Ciucci.

Do not forget that these are the preparatory work (or side) of the bridge over the Strait. To make room for construction sites. The work of the Bridge (piers, etc..) Starting next fall. : cheers:
(some say the first of 2011)

For information and more detailed information and comprehensive advice to follow the Italian thread every day! ;)

PONTE SULLO STRETTO DI MESSINA - IX

:hi:

^^
Most of sicilians don't want the bridge! let's stay real.....

^^
Most of sicilians don't want the bridge! let's stay real.....

I know. You're right.
But now, after decades of debate and controversy, we pass from words to deeds.
The real problem of the bridge was ideological-political. We discussed at length.
Now it's serious.

Hope there are no hitches and that by the end of next year (they say autumn) to see the hoist slowly towers nearly 400 meters of the piers of the bridge.

Finally, I remind you that every great work, anywhere, creates dissenzi, skepticism and strong opposition. Whatever it is.

Bridge, open yards. Raining criticism from the center / left
Wednesday, December 23, 2009 18:22

Peppe Caridi (jornalist)- began this morning the work of the first building for the construction of the bridge over the Strait: This is the relocation of the station and railway line Cannitello to address interference with construction of the future work pier side Calabro, who arise just where the railroad now passes.

Just today, while Cannitello was laid the foundation stone for the bridge over the Strait, in Villa San Giovanni are heavy inconvenience to the ferry: the jetties for Sicily, the wait time to board the ferry was 60-80 minutes throughout the day from the early morning hours. The police initiated the plan to 'Step One' to avoid further queues, but crossing the Strait continues to be an epic without an efficient service collegmento stable and continued in fact, is not guaranteed the right to Mobilt and, between Calabria and Sicily, there is the much-coveted territorial continuity.

Are problems that will vanish with the completion of the bridge, whose construction began today, the shift of variant Cannitello a song worth about € 26 million which represents the first phase of a larger project to move ahead of the railway line Battipaglia-Reggio Calabria, which will make available approximately 4 miles of waterfront currently exist between Villa San Giovanni and Santa Trada.

The work entrusted to the general contractor Eurolink, awarded the international tender for the construction of the bridge over the Straits of Messina, in the first phase will cover the preliminary activities relating to authorization for the occupation of areas remediation activities with weapons, to securing and clearing the area of the yard, and on activities of investigation for the identification of possible areas to be reclaimed or waste to be allocated at landfills planned.

The business of building a new railway line will last 18 months and will participate mainly local companies.

"We are respecting the times that we had allocated for the re-start public works - said Minister of Infrastructure and Transport, Altero Matteoli, adding that" today depart on time the first preparatory work Strait Bridge and continue into next year Sicilian coast. It is necessary to start construction work of the artefact, but still needed regardless of the bridge, which is a work that the Government considers a priority and for which they were made all the necessary steps and not easy to achieve it. The bridge will not be a white elephant, as critics argue the work. Will instead be an infrastructure unique in the world, that will generate growth, employment and economic growth and that a cascade result in the realization of other infrastructure work necessary to Calabria and Sicily. I refer to roads, rail, other departments so lacking in this beautiful area. The commencement of work today - concluded the Minister - demonstrates the ability of this government to maintain its commitments in the program presented to citizens and is a concrete example of the politics of doing that characterizes our work. "

"It 'was an important year for the restart of the bridge over the Straits of Messina," said the CEO of the company Stretto di Messina, Pietro Ciucci, explaining that "we have overcome, with the continued support of the Government and Minister in particular Infrastructure, all problems due to blockage of the work of 2006. We have signed agreements with companies, updated and signed by the grantor Ministry of Equipment, the Convention will annex the new business plan, two days ago has been endorsed 'capital increase the Company's Strait of Messina to 900 million euros. These amount to 2.5 billion euros the resources allocated to the Company for the construction of the bridge over the Straits of Messina, while the remaining amount will be collected according to the financial markets typical methods of project financing. Today, with the opening of the first construction, we are in full realization phase, it remains the regret of having lost 3 years which would have allowed a decisive progress on the contrary the project with economic benefits that would have been even more striking accelerate the exit from the economic crisis of the areas directly affected by the works. Presto - said Ciucci yet - we will be able to start even the first preparatory works on the Sicilian side. Meanwhile, activities are underway for the drafting of the final draft that will be in the second half of 2010 subject to regulatory approvals. In a few days also take away even the activities of environmental monitoring, including monitoring and careful studies on water, air, fauna and flora. This is action that will affect an area of over 36 square kilometers, equivalent to ten times the area of construction of the bridge. "

http://www.strill.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57085

:cheers::cheers:

The final draft

The final plans for the construction of the Bridge of Messina was contracted at a cost of around 3.88 billion euros from the General Contractor Eurolink, (Temporary Association of Enterprises) which has won the tender for the construction of the Messina Bridge.

The project to its importance beats all previous records, provides the link between Cannitello Ganzirri in Calabria and in Sicily by a single-span suspension bridge (3,300 m) with six lanes of road traffic and two tracks of rail traffic in 3666 m overall length, supported by two pylons 398 m high (376 m asl) located on the shores of Calabria and Sicily.

Work on building the bridge also includes the establishment of links with the existing road and railway structures, and specifically the motorway Salerno-Reggio Calabria, Messina-Catania, Palermo and Messina-rail High Capacity should connect in the future, Naples and Reggio C. with an extension to Palermo (Hall 1 Berlin-Palermo)

The bridge structure will consist of three steel caissons independent of each other, linked by cross-beams suspended from aerodynamic profile with an average altitude of about 70 m by four steel cables with a diameter of 1.24 meters and a length of 5,300 meters .

The deck off host a total of 60 m for each direction of travel semicarreggiata a two-lane highway with emergency lane, two-lane service road and a railway track. This structure will allow the transit of 140,000 vehicles and 200 trains a day.

Features

Towers - Two pylons 398 m high (376 m asl) located on the shores of Calabria and Sicily.

Cables - The deck will be suspended by four huge cables with a diameter of 1.24 m, each composed of thousands of steel wire with a diameter of few millimeters. The cables will run parallel to each other on two pairs of transversely spaced 52 m apart.
The cables will be 5300 m long each, and stretched between two powerful anchors on land in Sicily and Calabria, and loops on top of two towers 382 m high steel site on both sides of the Strait of Messina.


Height - The deck will be suspended on the sea surface to a height of about 70 m, to allow the transit of vessels of all sizes.

Winds - The work is designed to deal with winds with speeds up to 60 m / s.

Magnitude - The project requires the work to withstand stress without structural damage to the seismic magnitude of 7.1 on the Richter scale (which is exactly equal to the Messina earthquake of 1908).

Access - The entrances to the bridge will be located on the northern outskirts of the city of Messina and Villa San Giovanni. Road and rail connections will be made open and in tunnels for a total of about 20 km between both sides.

Traffic - The disposal capacity of the traffic has been calculated at about 6000 to 9000 vehicles per hour and 200 trains a day.

Duration - The life of the bridge is scheduled for at least 200 years.

Record-The Messina Bridge project would exceed its current all the world records for suspension bridges.




The numbers of the final draft

• 3,300 m length of the central span - Record

• 3666 meters total length of the bridge with side spans

• 60.4 meter width dell'impalcato - Record

• 382.60 meter height of the towers - Record

• 2 pairs of wires for the suspension system

• 5,300 meters total length of cables

• 1.24 meter diameter of the suspension cables - Record

• 44,352 steel wire cable

• 65 meters high by 600 wide fairway Central

• 50 meters high by 1000 wide by each of the lateral canals
_______________________________________________________________

The Map:

http://www.pontedimessina.it/it/coordinate-geografiche-ponte-di-messina.html

:|
Already! But who better than they can tell us what they are producing?
:nuts:

^^
those (infrastructure) should be made as well. Whatever.
And then only the Calabrian right to protest .... they give a shit so fuck the bridge?!

Boys, more science and less ideology, and future!

^^
Exactly! The final draft (or executive), what will the real building site infrastructure, will be ready by June 2010.
So we were assured by the CEO of Stretto di Messina SpA, Pietro Ciucci.

Do not forget that these are the preparatory work (or side) of the bridge over the Strait. To make room for construction sites. The work of the Bridge (piers, etc..) Starting next fall. : cheers:
(some say the first of 2011)

For information and more detailed information and comprehensive advice to follow the Italian thread every day! ;)

PONTE SULLO STRETTO DI MESSINA - IX

:hi:"As thick as a brick", no wonder they say so. Macaroni at its best.

Seven people for three hours of work and authorities absent. Has the work for the Strait of Messina bridge really started?


They still haven’t started and they’re already on holidays. But has the work for the Strait of Messina bridge really started? Today was to be the day of the first stone, the official inauguration with the Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, with the Infrastructures Minister, Altero Matteoli and the managing director of the company Strait of Messina, Pietro Ciucci.
But nothing happened. There were only Paolo Brogani, a Eurolink executive, seven workers, a bulldozer, for just 3 hours of work. The appointment with the authorities has been postponed to January. Today an area of around one hundred squared metres has been cleaned up. Yesterday an extraordinary assembly of the shareholders of the company Strait of Messina passed the increase of the capital reaching 900 million Euros. “The work has officially begun” said Anas. “Today a part of the area interested was acquired – said Paolo Brogani – for clearance”. This phase will last sixty days while the railway line in Cannitello will be completed in eighteen months. The cost will be of around 26 million Euros. This work is necessary to solve the interference with the future tower of the bridge, in Calabria. The tower will be 382.6 metres high.
Advertise with ItalianNews
The same tower on the Sicilian side will be built between Ganzirri and Torre Faro, but work still has to be defined and expropriations still have to start. Today near the construction sites, where last Saturday some five thousand people manifested against the bridge, there is just silence, as if nothing is happening. Maybe because the authorities were not present and the site was closed at 11 in the morning because of the Christmas holidays.

Nah, that happens all the time. About 1 - 2 months ago, the official construction of the Bar - Beograd motorway started in Montenegro. It's more like a gathering of officials and show bulldozers than that construction really begins. It's not uncommon for the actual construction to start a few months after the official start of the project.

Exaclty. They are now taking possession of construction/dumping sites etc.

About the question of wether it should be built, I prefer to refrain from the quixotesc ideology-tainted opinion war it has turned into. Opinion polls promoted by both camps (Sì, Ponte e No Ponte) are usually tainted by the very way questions are formulated. Example: "would you preffer a bridge to be built in Messina or that fast rail services were put in place all over Sicily, with reduced fares for low-income people?" - never mind faster trains cannot access Sicily on ferry-boats (!).

Opinion polls promoted by both camps (Sì, Ponte e No Ponte) are usually tainted by the very way questions are formulated. Example: "would you preffer a bridge to be built in Messina or that fast rail services were put in place all over Sicily, with reduced fares for low-income people?" - never mind faster trains cannot access Sicily on ferry-boats (!).Now this is interesting. What on earth prevents fast trains from travelling on ferry boats? Sounds like c**p to me.

Seven people for three hours of work and authorities absent. Has the work for the Strait of Messina bridge really started?


They still haven’t started and they’re already on holidays. But has the work for the Strait of Messina bridge really started? Today was to be the day of the first stone, the official inauguration with the Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, with the Infrastructures Minister, Altero Matteoli and the managing director of the company Strait of Messina, Pietro Ciucci.
But nothing happened. There were only Paolo Brogani, a Eurolink executive, seven workers, a bulldozer, for just 3 hours of work. The appointment with the authorities has been postponed to January. Today an area of around one hundred squared metres has been cleaned up. Yesterday an extraordinary assembly of the shareholders of the company Strait of Messina passed the increase of the capital reaching 900 million Euros. “The work has officially begun” said Anas. “Today a part of the area interested was acquired – said Paolo Brogani – for clearance”. This phase will last sixty days while the railway line in Cannitello will be completed in eighteen months. The cost will be of around 26 million Euros. This work is necessary to solve the interference with the future tower of the bridge, in Calabria. The tower will be 382.6 metres high.
Advertise with ItalianNews
The same tower on the Sicilian side will be built between Ganzirri and Torre Faro, but work still has to be defined and expropriations still have to start. Today near the construction sites, where last Saturday some five thousand people manifested against the bridge, there is just silence, as if nothing is happening. Maybe because the authorities were not present and the site was closed at 11 in the morning because of the Christmas holidays.

This news is full of lies. Obviously behind behind the arrogance of those who wrote it is in fact hides one of the usual "NO-Bridge" ...
First of all we knew that there were no official ceremonies and Prime Minister (Berlusconi) to Inaug nothing, because he is convalescing.
According to the expropriations began long ago and procedenono (see Italian thread).

As regards the timing of start of work, you who know why it was decided to start its December 23? There are valid reasons or not! We see that the time schedule provides X days, including this one before the holidays: dunno:
IMHO.

"As thick as a brick", no wonder they say so. Macaroni at its best.

Who says? Is there anyone who secretly speaks ill of me? :)
:lol:

I am not a "fundamentalist" Bridge over the Strait. Believe that only the infrastructure and try to make people understand that certain things, purely ideological, are false.

People have the right to know how things are in Italy and especially in Sicily.

Nah, that happens all the time. About 1 - 2 months ago, the official construction of the Bar - Beograd motorway started in Montenegro. It's more like a gathering of officials and show bulldozers than that construction really begins. It's not uncommon for the actual construction to start a few months after the official start of the project.

See,
probably this date (December 23, ie 2 days before the holiday season) has only a symbolic value. But no matter. And then I repeated several times that it is the preparation for construction of the bridge itself. In practice began Afar area shipyards started to move the railroad Canniello (Calabria).
Work on the bridge will begin next fall.

Seven people for three hours of work and authorities absent. Has the work for the Strait of Messina bridge really started?


They still haven’t started and they’re already on holidays. But has the work for the Strait of Messina bridge really started? Today was to be the day of the first stone, the official inauguration with the Prime Minister, Silvio Berlusconi, with the Infrastructures Minister, Altero Matteoli and the managing director of the company Strait of Messina, Pietro Ciucci.
But nothing happened. There were only Paolo Brogani, a Eurolink executive, seven workers, a bulldozer, for just 3 hours of work. The appointment with the authorities has been postponed to January. Today an area of around one hundred squared metres has been cleaned up. Yesterday an extraordinary assembly of the shareholders of the company Strait of Messina passed the increase of the capital reaching 900 million Euros. “The work has officially begun” said Anas. “Today a part of the area interested was acquired – said Paolo Brogani – for clearance”. This phase will last sixty days while the railway line in Cannitello will be completed in eighteen months. The cost will be of around 26 million Euros. This work is necessary to solve the interference with the future tower of the bridge, in Calabria. The tower will be 382.6 metres high.
Advertise with ItalianNews
The same tower on the Sicilian side will be built between Ganzirri and Torre Faro, but work still has to be defined and expropriations still have to start. Today near the construction sites, where last Saturday some five thousand people manifested against the bridge, there is just silence, as if nothing is happening. Maybe because the authorities were not present and the site was closed at 11 in the morning because of the Christmas holidays.

Interview on the newspaper La Sicilia on 24 December through Massimo Ponzellini, President Impregilo:

"It starts the great adventure"
Ponzellini, President Impregilo: "It will be the work of a generation." It will also Tav

http://i45.tinypic.com/2qal5oh.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2n6amaq.jpg

^^
Bulldozers in action yesterday in Cannitello
REGGIO CALABRIA.
They left yesterday for the work of the first building
construction of the bridge on the Messina Strait. This is the
divert the existing railway line at the Tyrrhenian
of Cannitello to resolve the interference with the future construction site of
tower of the bridge, side Calabria. The work has a value of approximately 26 million
Euro and represents the first phase of the broader project
move upstream of the railway line Battipaglia-Reggio
Calabria, which will make available approximately 4 miles of waterfront betweenVilla San Giovanni and Santa Trada. "We are respecting the times that wewere allocated and the preparatory work Strait Bridge
continue even on the Sicilian coast, "said the minister
Infrastructure and Transport, Altero Matteoli.

Bridge over the Strait, is the first stone

Departure begins in the preparatory work for construction on the coast of Calabria Matteoli: we are on time for the construction dell'opera.

The bridge over the Strait of Messina still not there. But it is no longer just a dream. As of yesterday, laying the foundation stone has become a reality with the works for the diversion of the railway line next to the Tyrrhenian Cannitello, in Calabria. "We are respecting the times that we had allocated for the re-start public works. Today (NDR) said the minister of infrastructure, Altero Matteoli - depart on time even the early preparatory work to the bridge over the Straits and in the coming year will continue even on the coast of Sicily. It is essential work to start building the artifact, but necessary, regardless of the bridge. Work that the Government considers a priority and for which they were completed all the necessary steps and not easy to achieve. " Work on the railway line have a value of around 26 million euros and is the first phase of a larger project to move ahead of Battipaglia-Reggio Calabria railway line, which will make available approximately 4 miles of waterfront between Villa San Giovanni and Santa Trada. The work was entrusted to the general contractor Eurolink. The business of building a new railway line will last 18 months and will participate mainly local companies. The bridge, according to Matteoli, "there will be a white elephant, like the opera critics argue, will instead be an infrastructure unique in the world, that will generate growth, employment and economic growth and that a cascade result in the achievement of other infrastructure work needed to Calabria and Sicily. According to the Straits of Messina, Pietro Ciucci, 2009, "was a critical year. We have overcome all the problems due to blockage of the work of 2006. Soon we will be able to start even the first preparatory works on the Sicilian. "

http://iltempo.ilsole24ore.com/economia/2009/12/24/1108153-ponte_sullo_stretto_prima_pietra.shtml?refresh_ce

The numbers of the final draft

• 3,300 m length of the central span - Record

• 3666 meters total length of the bridge with side spans

• 60.4 meter width dell'impalcato - Record

• 382.60 meter height of the towers - Record

• 2 pairs of wires for the suspension system

• 5,300 meters total length of cables

• 1.24 meter diameter of the suspension cables - Record

• 44,352 steel wire cable

• 65 meters high by 600 wide fairway Central

• 50 meters high by 1000 wide by each of the lateral canals


:applause::applause::applause::okay::okay::okay::applause::applause::applause:

Now this is interesting. What on earth prevents fast trains from travelling on ferry boats? Sounds like c**p to me.

Even if the trains could board a ferry, what is the point to invest billions of an improved (say, up to 220 km/h) railway down from Salerno if the trains are to be sutck at a ferry operation that takes no less than 1h30 (deccelerating, boarding, crossing, unboarding, accelerating)?

Even if the trains could board a ferry, what is the point to invest billions of an improved (say, up to 220 km/h) railway down from Salerno if the trains are to be sutck at a ferry operation that takes no less than 1h30 (deccelerating, boarding, crossing, unboarding, accelerating)?

^^
Exactly.
What sense would invest billions in a high-speed line from Salerno to Reggio Calabria, saving hours and then losing them to cross the Strait.

... at least that there are no trains "amphibian ".... :lol: :lol:

(ironically)

Even if the trains could board a ferry, what is the point to invest billions of an improved (say, up to 220 km/h) railway down from Salerno if the trains are to be sutck at a ferry operation that takes no less than 1h30 (deccelerating, boarding, crossing, unboarding, accelerating)?

Does anyone thinks that the trains will fly across this bridge?
1. It is has been calculated that with the bridge the crossing from Scilla (Calabria) to Messina Central station (Sicily) it will take about 30 mins
.....1 hour less of what it takes today.
2. Has anyone any idea of how many trains will cross this bridge? so far it looks about 5 trains a day :lol:

^^
Exactly.
What sense would invest billions in a high-speed line from Salerno to Reggio Calabria, saving hours and then losing them to cross the Strait.

Even if, and I'm saying "Even if", the will complete the high-speed line from Salerno to Reggio (who knows in which year)
what's the point to have reduced the times for the crossing when once in Messina
the whole sicilian railway-system is still stuck on paper projects (it wont be ready before 2030, if we are lucky).

Let's work out some numbers:

With bridge in 2018:
Salerno-Scilla 4 hours
Bridge crossing 30mins
Messina-Palermo 3 hours
===================
Total.......7 hours 30 mins

.................................................With decent railways and NO bridge (2018)
.................................................Salerno-Villa San Giovanni 2 hours
.................................................Ferry crossing 1 hour 30 mins
.................................................Messina-Palermo 1 hours 30 mins
.................................................=========================
.................................................Total....................5 hours

Upgraded railways + bridge 2030:
Salerno-Scilla 2 hours
Bridge crossing 30 minutes
Messina-Palermo 1h 30min
====================
Total..................4 hours..............................................6 Billinons for 1 hour :lol:

Your argument is somehow misleading. Rebuffing other "no-ponte" arguments also, I'd point:

1. Train traffic is not even the major reason for building the bridge.

2. € 6 billions budget includes improvements in both rail an highway traffic in Messina-Reggio Calabria area, which will improve traffic times also.

3. Building fix links have been proved to increase economic dinamism in islands all over the World. For instance, it is now feasible to commute between Denmark and Sweden, or in Prince Edward's Island (Canada).

4. There is nothing really special with engineering "never faced before" challenges in relate to seismic risk, winds etc. Unfortunately for us, Italians, the time in which we could have built the Messina Strait bridge as something totally inovative is past us 20/25 years at least. It is a shame that an island where 5 million people live, less than 4.000m far from the continent, is still relegated to be a second class, isolated place. There is no other such populated and close-to-mainland island still without a fixed link in the developed World!

5. There is a lot of beggy-thy-neighbor playing on the "no-ponte" camp. When completed, the bridge will span new development across the highay axes in Sicilia and Southermost Calabria. Some cities that will inevitably lose some relative economic importance with its completion are fighting to death.

Now, the most misleading assumption is that money avaiable to be invested in the bridge could be easily re(mis)located to other purposes, like highway construction in Sicilia.. Most of the bridge will be financed through private capital, which will not be available in money-losing regional railways, for instance.

Sicilia needs a lot of investment to bring the island up to European standards. However, it is not the € 2,3 billion of public money being set aside for the project that are going to make the difference. However, bringing and end to the physical isolation of Sicilia is a worthwhile goal for itself. Just think of what freeway construction in the 60's and 70's did to Puglia and Vale d'Aosta, for instance. This bridge will not me miraculous, but will give a much-needed push in the area.

Now, Italians could use this project to put an end in rackteering and other odious practices that plague public projects in the area. Bring international supervision, bring EU officials, impose dracionianian accounting controls, bring the army to the region again (as in 1992), but let's not let the maffiosi deter or hamper, again, the development of the region.

4. ...........It is a shame that an island where 5 million people live, less than 4.000m far from the continent, is still relegated to be a second class, isolated place. There is no other such populated and close-to-mainland island still without a fixed link in the developed World!

1. Would you explain to us all this sentence please? What do you mean by second class?

Sicily is the 8th most productive region in Italy.
Has 4 universities with the first established in 1434 (the 2nd in 1548)
Has 5 airports and 15 ports and doesn't need a bridge to be connected to the developed World.

If the developed World really needs to reach to Sicily there are plenty of means of transport to get to the centre of the Med.

Careful as you speak, someone could get offended.

Now lets answer your post:

1. Train traffic is not even the major reason for building the bridge.

I only answerd your question: Even if the trains could board a ferry, what is the point to invest billions of an improved (say, up to 220 km/h) railway down from Salerno if the trains are to be sutck at a ferry operation that takes no less than 1h30

The answer is still: whats the point to have a railway bridge for a 1h saving on time on 5 trains a day?....:lol:

2. € 6 billions budget includes improvements in both rail an highway traffic in Messina-Reggio Calabria area, which will improve traffic times also.

€6 billinons budget is to connect the existing motorway and railway to the bridge.
Once crossed the bridge NO traffic will improuve on either side....happy days!

3. Building fix links have been proved to increase economic dinamism in islands all over the World. For instance, it is now feasible to commute between Denmark and Sweden, or in Prince Edward's Island (Canada).

You can't compare the Oresund Bridge that links two countries like Sweden and Denemark with
two regions like Sicily and Calabria.
The Confederation Bridge of Prince Edward's Island has improuved only tourism,
that's what will happen to this Messina bridge, it will be just a big tourist attraction like the "Eiffel Tower"....happy days!

5. There is a lot of beggy-thy-neighbor playing on the "no-ponte" camp. When completed, the bridge will span new development across the highay axes in Sicilia and Southermost Calabria. Some cities that will inevitably lose some relative economic importance with its completion are fighting to death.

This is one of the many reason why not to build the bridge.
Over all the payback from the structure will not compensate for the loss of the locals....happy days!

Now, the most misleading assumption is that money avaiable to be invested in the bridge could be easily re(mis)located to other purposes, like highway construction in Sicilia.. Most of the bridge will be financed through private capital, which will not be available in money-losing regional railways, for instance.

Your sentence: Most of the bridge will be financed through private capital says it all,
because the rest of the public money (European and Italian) should go to the necessary infrastructures of the island and not to this penis extension (because that's all it is) of a little man with many issues that at the age of 73 still dyes his hair, wears shoes with hidden heels and goes on the sun-bed more often than a 16 year old girl :lol:

The railways have no future in Sicily but
the south coast of the island still needs its motorways that could be built with this "public" money.

Sicilia needs a lot of investment to bring the island up to European standards. However, it is not the € 2,3 billion of public money being set aside for the project that are going to make the difference. However, bringing and end to the physical isolation of Sicilia is a worthwhile goal for itself. Just think of what freeway construction in the 60's and 70's did to Puglia and Vale d'Aosta, for instance. This bridge will not me miraculous, but will give a much-needed push in the area.

As I said before, this bridge will be onbly a tourist attraction because for someone living in
Trapani, Agrigento, Caltanissetta, Enna, Ragusa, Siracusa, Gela, Marsala, Caltagirone, Mazara del Vallo, Vittoria, Modica
this bridge wont make any difference at all..........

You can't compare the Oresund Bridge that links two countries like Sweden and Denemark with
two regions like Sicily and Calabria.
The Confederation Bridge of Prince Edward's Island has improuved only tourism,
that's what will happen to this Messina bridge, it will be just a big tourist attraction like the "Eiffel Tower"....happy days!


I may agree on many of the things you said but I remind you that Sicily has the same population of Denmark and the rest of Italy far more than Sweden 8 million. Only the italian south has 20 million people living in. So the two bridges are definetely comparable, maybe Messina is more important if anything as travels WITHIN a country are alwasy MORE than travels between countries

It is not true that the government is not investing in highways in Sicilia's south coast. The works on the Siracusa-Gela freeway are going, albeit a little slow. Agrigento and its surroundings, though, remain quite isolated.

However, it drive me nuts that Sicilia's freeways have not yet been put under private operation. Tolls are cheap or non-existent, for sure, but quality suffers. With the traffic increase broght by the bridge, I hope that all freeways in Sicilia become private operated with fair tolls and good quality (same for the A3 freeway when its modernization works will be completed in 2013).

It is not true that the government is not investing in highways in Sicilia's south coast. The works on the Siracusa-Gela freeway are going, albeit a little slow. Agrigento and its surroundings, though, remain quite isolated.

However, it drive me nuts that Sicilia's freeways have not yet been put under private operation. Tolls are cheap or non-existent, for sure, but quality suffers. With the traffic increase broght by the bridge, I hope that all freeways in Sicilia become private operated with fair tolls and good quality (same for the A3 freeway when its modernization works will be completed in 2013).

Suburbanist, I have family in Ragusa and have followed the story of the Siracusa-Gela motorway from start (1983) to finish (???).

Siracusa-Cassibile (9.5km) completed in 83, Cassibile-Rosolini (30.5km) comleted in 2008
next is Rosolini-Modica (19km), if all goes well and we are lucky it will be ready by 2018.
2018 and we will be 70 km short from Gela............., works are not going at all....

Just last July (2009) I drove up-down the A3.....there is no way that it will be ready for 2013.

I may agree on many of the things you said but I remind you that Sicily has the same population of Denmark and the rest of Italy far more than Sweden 8 million. Only the italian south has 20 million people living in. So the two bridges are definetely comparable, maybe Messina is more important if anything as travels WITHIN a country are alwasy MORE than travels between countries

If we look at the population there are no doubts that we could "consider" building a bridge between Sicily (5M) and South-Italy (15M) but
if we look at the economical side (Gross domestic product) we are comparing:

Sicily € 83 billion - € 205 billion Calabria-Campania-Apulia-Basilicata
Denmark $ 204 billion - € 341 billion Sweden

The Scandinavian countries work togheter alot more than what happen between Sicily and the south of Italy.
This bridge will be speed up the export of Sicilian tomatoes/vegetables to the markets of centre/north Italy
but not between inexistent industries of south Italy. What travels between Sicily and south-Italy???

I'm confident that a tomato can travel on fridge-lorry for 15 hours as well as 16 ...

Sadly, it takes an Italian who lives abroad to get a comprehensive and sensible outlook on the predicament we're in...

Does anyone thinks that the trains will fly across this bridge?
1. It is has been calculated that with the bridge the crossing from Scilla (Calabria) to Messina Central station (Sicily) it will take about 30 mins
.....1 hour less of what it takes today.
2. Has anyone any idea of how many trains will cross this bridge? so far it looks about 5 trains a day :lol:

Even if, and I'm saying "Even if", the will complete the high-speed line from Salerno to Reggio (who knows in which year)
what's the point to have reduced the times for the crossing when once in Messina
the whole sicilian railway-system is still stuck on paper projects (it wont be ready before 2030, if we are lucky).


Yet these speeches make me, Sal! :|
You should be quite familiar with all the reasons we mentioned in the thread Italian.
:dunno:

Your argument is somehow misleading. Rebuffing other "no-ponte" arguments also, I'd point:

1. Train traffic is not even the major reason for building the bridge.

2. € 6 billions budget includes improvements in both rail an highway traffic in Messina-Reggio Calabria area, which will improve traffic times also.

3. Building fix links have been proved to increase economic dinamism in islands all over the World. For instance, it is now feasible to commute between Denmark and Sweden, or in Prince Edward's Island (Canada).

4. There is nothing really special with engineering "never faced before" challenges in relate to seismic risk, winds etc. Unfortunately for us, Italians, the time in which we could have built the Messina Strait bridge as something totally inovative is past us 20/25 years at least. It is a shame that an island where 5 million people live, less than 4.000m far from the continent, is still relegated to be a second class, isolated place. There is no other such populated and close-to-mainland island still without a fixed link in the developed World!

5. There is a lot of beggy-thy-neighbor playing on the "no-ponte" camp. When completed, the bridge will span new development across the highay axes in Sicilia and Southermost Calabria. Some cities that will inevitably lose some relative economic importance with its completion are fighting to death.

Now, the most misleading assumption is that money avaiable to be invested in the bridge could be easily re(mis)located to other purposes, like highway construction in Sicilia.. Most of the bridge will be financed through private capital, which will not be available in money-losing regional railways, for instance.

Sicilia needs a lot of investment to bring the island up to European standards. However, it is not the € 2,3 billion of public money being set aside for the project that are going to make the difference. However, bringing and end to the physical isolation of Sicilia is a worthwhile goal for itself. Just think of what freeway construction in the 60's and 70's did to Puglia and Vale d'Aosta, for instance. This bridge will not me miraculous, but will give a much-needed push in the area.

Now, Italians could use this project to put an end in rackteering and other odious practices that plague public projects in the area. Bring international supervision, bring EU officials, impose dracionianian accounting controls, bring the army to the region again (as in 1992), but let's not let the maffiosi deter or hamper, again, the development of the region.

Concordo.
:applause:


Suburbanist, I have family in Ragusa and have followed the story of the Siracusa-Gela motorway from start (1983) to finish (???).

Siracusa-Cassibile (9.5km) completed in 83, Cassibile-Rosolini (30.5km) comleted in 2008
next is Rosolini-Modica (19km), if all goes well and we are lucky it will be ready by 2018.
2018 and we will be 70 km short from Gela............., works are not going at all....

Just last July (2009) I drove up-down the A3.....there is no way that it will be ready for 2013.

In Sicily we have more miles of highways in the rest of Italy.
The Syracuse-Gela is an anomaly in the sea of "anomalies" of the infrastructure system in particular Italian and Sicilian.
The situation is this:
The next batch ( "Modica" and "Scicli) of the Siracusa-Gela have almost all the funding; are subject to review of project however, is definitive (the projects).

For the Caltanissetta-Agrigento, work is progressing and will be delivered in 2013 if I remember correctly.

I wonder that my friend Sal Consider the Siracusa-Gela. Himself who has repeatedly questioned the utility. : bash:

Sal is not true?? : ol: :lol:

Sadly, it takes an Italian who lives abroad to get a comprehensive and sensible outlook on the predicament we're in...

Not likely.


I could say:
And what in the hell do you know the needs and urgencies of Sicily even though we live in Sicily?

^^
Now: (2010)

autostrade:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2z5rtqu.jpg

I could say:
And what in the hell do you know the needs and urgencies of Sicily even though we live in Sicily?Going by this reasoning (if I get what you mean because your command of English is close to nil), a mafioso who lives in Sicily knows "the needs" of that land better than a progressive Sicilian who lives in England. Listen, I give up. You're hopeless. :lol:
Indeed, I'm afraid that since "bricks" (a.k.a. "macaroni") are currently the majority in Sicily as well as in the whole of Italy, our country doesn't stand a chance.

^^
Now: (2010)

autostrade:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2z5rtqu.jpg

That's pretty good, right? Only Palermo might need a good bypass, and some connections to the south. According to recent pictures, some Autostrada are in pretty bad condition in Sicily.

Going by this reasoning (if I get what you mean because your command of English is close to nil), a mafioso who lives in Sicily knows "the needs" of that land better than a progressive Sicilian who lives in England. Listen, I give up. You're hopeless. :lol:
Indeed, I'm afraid that since "bricks" (a.k.a. "macaroni") are currently the majority in Sicily as well as in the whole of Italy, our country doesn't stand a chance.

So I'm a Sicilian Mafia only because I? And I would also hopeless as Italian?
You mean this? If so, the moderators should take action soon, IMHO.
:sly:

P.S.
I know that my English is not good. The important thing is to know what we speak!
:lol:


That's pretty good, right? Only Palermo might need a good bypass, and some connections to the south. According to recent pictures, some Autostrada are in pretty bad condition in Sicily.

You are absolutely right.
1) we talk a long time (decades) to do the bypass in Palermo, but still nothing concrete;
2) Palermo and Agrigento are connected by a very dangerous State but is subject to modernization;
3) The highways in poor condition are Siracusa-Gela (Syracuse-Rosolini), the Messina-Catania and Messina-Palermo.
This is because they are managed by a bad body (consortium Sicilian highways) which takes the money from tolls and does not properly:
- Maintenance;
- Investments and more.
:ohno:

(The Catania-Siracusa, however, recently opened (26 km Villasmundo-ring road of Catania) say the highway is currently the most modern in Europe.
:cheers2:

Italian in the thread:
Autostrada Catania-Siracusa

^^
there's also some videos ;) )

We are always complaining of that unit Useless.
(to be specified at some points is not that bad though ..:bash:)

Bridge, "we are on time "
Even the minister in Varapodio Matteoli, in the province of Reggio Calabria, for the presentation of the project: "It 'a work of high international engineering that will employ 40 thousand people." Ciucci: "There will be large positive effects for South

VARAPODIO (REGGIO CALABRIA) - "If you do not realize the bridge will disappear in a commitment made during the election campaign. In the program we presented one of the priorities was the bridge." There was also the minister in Varapodio Altero Matteoli, in the province of Reggio Calabria, to present the design of the bridge on the Messina Strait.

"We are on time - added -. linking Berlin with Palermo is one of the most important things that could happen to regions such as Calabria and Sicily. It 'an international operation that will employ 40 thousand people during the construction, which will attract tourists because it is a work of high engineering designed by Italian engineers. I do not understand those who are against democracy, even if it is legitimate to think differently. "

For the minister the bridge "will not, as claimed by his detractors, a cathedral in the desert. It 'obvious that lead to a cascade in the years of its construction, the construction of other infrastructure work in Calabria and Sicily required for large reference area, essential for the entire work can express all its strategic potential. Among them, and not least the fact that it will make possible the realization of the largest subway system in the Mediterranean. Catania, Messina, Reggio Calabria, Villa San Giovanni, Gioia Tauro become urban nodes of an integrated system capable of optimizing all the added values generated from the fluidity of connections.

The conference, organized by the Municipality of Varapodio, was also the chairman and CEO of the Company Anas Strait of Messina, Pietro Ciucci. "total - he said -the economic impact of direct, indirect and induced the phase of construction is equal to the significant amount of around EUR 6 billion of these children, over 50% is concentrated in Calabria and Sicily and about 75% in southern Italy ".

As for communities directly affected by the construction of the Opera, announced Ciucci, "soon we will launch a series of institutional meetings to present the complex organization that has the task of putting the bridge: the scrutiny of the Strait of Messina, the Contractor Overall, the Project Management Consultant, the Environmental Monitor. The goal is to secure the territory, immediately and sustained over time, a continuous flow of information on all major activities related to the work. "

11/01/2010

lasiciliaweb.it

http://i48.tinypic.com/2e2kw48.jpg

Bridge, "we are on time "
Even the minister in Varapodio Matteoli, in the province of Reggio Calabria, for the presentation of the project: "It 'a work of high international engineering that will employ 40 thousand people." Ciucci: "There will be large positive effects for South

.........................................."We are on time - added -. linking Berlin with Palermo is one of the most important things that could happen to regions such as Calabria and Sicily. It 'an international operation that will employ 40 thousand people during the construction, which will attract tourists because it is a work of high engineering designed by Italian engineers. I do not understand those who are against democracy, even if it is legitimate to think differently. "..................................................................

They are on time?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

It started only 3 weeks ago!
It would be a world wide record to be already late :lol:

and he doesn't understand those who are against democracy?
even if the Bridge was a unilateral decision of the Goverment/Dictatorship
that is imposing its plans to two regions without holding a referendum that would have said "No Bridge".

:lol: I'm not so sure Who is the one to be against democracy :lol:

because the Calabrians and Sicilians would have happily voted..........

calabrians and sicilians are against the bridge?

calabrians and sicilians are against the bridge?

Recent surveys have shown that the majority of Calabrians and Sicilians are against the bridge.
Of course goverment and goverment-friendly media have kept hidden away any negative survey that has come out so far.

It is easy to understand why Calabrians are not intrested in the bridge,
95% of them wont never need to use it, and rather have this money moved to more usefull projects.

Believe it or not, but the majority of Sicilians wont never use it :lol:
why? because connections to Naples/Rome/Milan are much cheaper by airplain than train or car.

The Italian railways are cutting every year on trains haeding to Sicily,
and am not so sure they fancy pay their (huge) toll on the bridge for about 5 daily trains that are getting emptier.

The only one that will gain from this bridge will be the Sicilians truckdrivers,
drivers that have to stop every 2h 30mins, something they used to do on the ferries with the 20 mins crossing :lol:

As for the Calabrians, Sicilians would rather have this money moved to more usefull projects.

calabrians and sicilians are against the bridge?

The Sicilians, in large part, are favorable. Calabrian I do not know.


Recent surveys have shown that the majority of Calabrians and Sicilians are against the bridge.


Is not true and you know it. :nono:
:D :D

(If you want to speak Italian in the thread that is easier and involves more Italians, Sicilians and Calabrese ;))
:cheers1:

I will disagree. Maybe you are one of those who wear "no ponte" t-shirts.

First of all, our Italian constitution and our laws don't say, anywhere, that infrastructure projects require referendum approval to go on. Irrespective of our opinion on the sitting government, it is just dishonest to claim that the project is "dictatorial". Affected people will be properly compensated with indeminities for property taken through eminent domain, as in every other project in Italy.

In second place, an infrastructure project usefullness is not adequately measurable only in terms of % of people who will use it. How many Italians have ever set foot on Gioia Tauro's seaport? Not many, probably, but this doesn't mean that it is "useless". How many Italians have ever visited the hidroelectric powerplants near the Alps? Again, not that many, but this doesn't render the project useless. What about the Alpine tunnels (Fréjus, Monte Bianco, San Bernardo). A dozen thousand Italians use them daily, but they are nonetheless vital to our links with France and Switzerland. Even in the acclaimed TAV high-speed tunneled segment between Firenze and Bologna not so many Italians (as a share of total population) will travel there, nonetheless it is a crucial piece in our high-speed, high-capacity network.

Morevore, who says that residents in Calabria and Sicilia would be the only ones concerned? Why not just those who live in the neighour provinces of Messina and Reggio Calabria? Why not all Italians? Why not just those living the cities of Messina and Villa San Giovanni?

One of the greatest misconceptions about this project is that not building the bridge would meand public investment elsewhere, which is not the case. Public budgeting in Italy has never worked in the way of "oh, ueseless highway, let's divert money to improve our building to seismic-proof standards." In Italy, as much as in the whole EU, when a big project is shut down in name of "other local priorities" money just vanish away.

Finally, a lot of public funds for the bridge are earmarked, both from Italy treasury and EU coffers. This bridge has been under discussion since, at least, 1974! Aren't 36 years enough of endeless discussions about what could have been done with the bridge funds?

I'm proud to be Italian and to see that the project will go on no matter what.

^^That's very correct! If we would think as the oponents of the bridge, nothing will be constructed, nowhere.

I will disagree. Maybe you are one of those who wear "no ponte" t-shirts.

First of all, our Italian constitution and our laws don't say, anywhere, that infrastructure projects requires referendum approval to go on. Irrespective of our opinion on the sitting government, it is just dishonest to claim that the project is "dictatorial". Affected people will be properly compensated with indeminities for property taken through eminent domain, as in every other project in Italy.

In second place, an infrastructure project usefullness is not adequately measurable only in terms of % of people who will use it. ...................................................................................................................................................

Finally, a lof of public funds for the bridge are earmarked, both from Italy treasury and EU coffers. This bridge has been under discussion since, at least, 1974! Aren't 36 years enough of endeless discussions about what could have been done with the bridge funds?

I'm proud to be Italian and to see that the project will go on no matter what.

Sorry Suburbanist but I don't wear nobody's t-shirt and don't carry any flags, but would like to answer your points.

First of all, paying compensation to few thousands people affected directly by this bridge doesn't mean that all the rest of the "local" population are sorted and happy. This bridge will affect thousands more than those few that have lost some property.
Ignore people's will is "dictatorial". Saying how things are is honest.

Second, you can be right in saying that not all infrastructure project usefullness can be adequately measurable in terms of % of people who will use it. But you can't compare it with Gioia Tauro's Port or an hidroelectric powerplants near the Alps. These are two structures not open to the pubblic. Do you want to compare?, the "San Gottardo Tunnel" cost less than € 600M and has a traffic of 5.000.000 vehicles a year. This bridge will cost not less than € 6 Billions and the current vehicolar traffic doesn't reach the 3.7M. All the above tunnels connect two countries, not two regions and we wont see any high-speed trains crossing this bridge.

The money that will be wasted on this bridge is not the only issue.

The last 36 years weren't spent discussing what could have been done with the bridge funds,
maybe the last 6...
the first 30 years were spent discussing if it was worth to build this bridge, and the outcome was always "No",
and for several reason.
Are 30 years not enough to discuss what to do? Looks like that for Berlusconi the answer is "no" :lol:

Explain me, please, how someone living in you city, Ragusa (by the way, Southeast Sicilia is the most beuatiful region in Europe), would be affected by the bridge construction in a meaningful way.

Explain me, please, how someone living in you city, Ragusa (by the way, Southeast Sicilia is the most beuatiful region in Europe), would be affected by the bridge construction in a meaningful way.

Thanks for the compliment, and I agree with you
Southeast Sicilia is the most beuatiful region in Europe

Ragusa is 200km south of Messina, and I don't think (IMHO) it wont be affected by this bridge,
Even if it sould become a "Tourist attraction" tourists would fly to Catania or Reggio Calabria,
and may be some few thousands tourists would go out of their way to visit the southeast.

For the truck-drivers of the province of Ragusa heading for the continent it will change in about 30mins shorter journeys (1h in summer),
30mins that will be lost again when they have to stop for their break after 2h 30mins drive.
Accidentaly Ragusa-Messina takes 2h 30mins and the truckdrivers used to have their break during the 20mins crossing
....so after all, no gain in time for them.

Sorry Suburbanist but I don't wear nobody's t-shirt and don't carry any flags, but would like to answer your points.

First of all, paying compensation to few thousands people affected directly by this bridge doesn't mean that all the rest of the "local" population are sorted and happy. This bridge will affect thousands more than those few that have lost some property.
Ignore people's will is "dictatorial". Saying how things are is honest.

Second, you can be right in saying that not all infrastructure project usefullness can be adequately measurable in terms of % of people who will use it. But you can't compare it with Gioia Tauro's Port or an hidroelectric powerplants near the Alps. These are two structures not open to the pubblic. Do you want to compare?, the "San Gottardo Tunnel" cost less than € 600M and has a traffic of 5.000.000 vehicles a year. This bridge will cost not less than € 6 Billions and the current vehicolar traffic doesn't reach the 3.7M. All the above tunnels connect two countries, not two regions and we wont see any high-speed trains crossing this bridge.

The money that will be wasted on this bridge is not the only issue.

The last 36 years weren't spent discussing what could have been done with the bridge funds,
maybe the last 6...
the first 30 years were spent discussing if it was worth to build this bridge, and the outcome was always "No",
and for several reason.
Are 30 years not enough to discuss what to do? Looks like that for Berlusconi the answer is "no" :lol:

San Gottardo (railway) tunnel will cost at the end some 10-12 billion euros

San Gottardo (railway) tunnel will cost at the end some 10-12 billion euros

That's for 114km of railway tunnels.
We talking about 2 tunnels long 57km each.

I meant the "Gotthard Road Tunnel"...very good value for money :lol:

When we are talking about past roadworks and projects, we need to take inflation into account. € 600 mln. in the 70's is equivalent at roughly € 1,6 bln. in today prices, without taking into account increased safety and environmental compensation measures that add up to these costs.

When we are talking about past roadworks and projects, we need to take inflation into account. € 600 mln. in the 70's is equivalent at roughly € 1,6 bln. in today prices, without taking into account increased safety and environmental compensation measures that add up to these costs.

Fair enough
but the "Gotthard Road Tunnel" (€ 1.6 Bln for 5M vehicles/year)
is still miles better investment than € 6.0 Bln for 3.7M vehicles/year.

By the way the estimate of the cost was 4.6 Blns in 2002,
with inflation and finacial expenses it went up to € 6.0 Bln 2004,
what's the equivalent of € 6.0 Bln in 2004 in today prices? 6 years later, 2010.

Explain me, please, how someone living in you city, Ragusa (by the way, Southeast Sicilia is the most beuatiful region in Europe), would be affected by the bridge construction in a meaningful way.

Since I'm not able to answer your question could you explain to me, please,
how someone living in my city, Ragusa, would be affected by the bridge construction in a meaningful way?

Explain me, please, how someone living in you city, Ragusa (by the way, Southeast Sicilia is the most beuatiful region in Europe), would be affected by the bridge construction in a meaningful way.

Thank you very much! :)
(I'm from Pozzallo in province of Ragusa)

Since I'm not able to answer your question could you explain to me, please,
how someone living in my city, Ragusa, would be affected by the bridge construction in a meaningful way?

The bridge over the Strait of Messina is an infrastructure that will benefit and will revolutionize travel between Sicily and Calabria, southern Italy and for the full-South Europe.

All sicliani will benefit, we Ragusa (think of the many farms in our area).
;)

The bridge over the Strait of Messina is an infrastructure that will benefit and will revolutionize travel between Sicily and Calabria, southern Italy and for the full-South Europe.

All sicliani will benefit, we Ragusa (think of the many farms in our area).
;)

What trades are there between Sicily and Southern Italy?
How will the "Cattle industry" and farming be affected by this bridge?

30mins shorter journey for the cows? :lol:

There wont be nay benefits for the province of Ragusa,
and so is for the provinces of Agrigento, Caltanissetta, Syracuse, Enna, Trapani, Catania......

When are the piling works scheduled to start?

When are the piling works scheduled to start?

Some say July-August, others say October-November.

Some say July-August, others say October-November.

Let's hope for the best...

What trades are there between Sicily and Southern Italy?
How will the "Cattle industry" and farming be affected by this bridge?

30mins shorter journey for the cows? :lol:

There wont be nay benefits for the province of Ragusa,
and so is for the provinces of Agrigento, Caltanissetta, Syracuse, Enna, Trapani, Catania......



Pretend not to know, right? :lol:

Then:
- Reducing time to import / export value, increased intermodality between the infrastructure (ports, highways, inland etc.).
- Other infrastructure is being made (or are already) in Sicily and Italy and the bridge will most likely investors in Sicily and Calabria;
- Creation of 40,000 jobs, including direct and induced;
- Benefits for Tourism (70% of holidaymakers arrived in Sicily by car or RV), tourists from around the world to see the bridge (and also the extraordinary artistic and cultural heritage and landscape of Sicily: okay:);
- Ferries are slow, with accounts in red dirt and pollutants;
- 16200 firms autotraporto in Sicily;

And these are just some of the reasons for the creation, immediate, on the Strait of Messina Bridge. :D
(The first time he spoke was in 1870!)

from italian forum about The strait of Messina bridge:

da notare il traffico merci su strada (aggiornato al 2005)

http://i48.tinypic.com/4e25c.jpg

Per chi avesse ancora qualche dubbio sull'utilità/convenzienza del Ponte e dei mezzi pesanti che vi transiteranno:

http://i48.tinypic.com/28koc90.jpg

:cheers:

this table clears some points ;)

Are there any toll rates publicized yet?

Pretend not to know, right? :lol:

Then:
- Reducing time to import / export value, increased intermodality between the infrastructure (ports, highways, inland etc.).
- Other infrastructure is being made (or are already) in Sicily and Italy and the bridge will most likely investors in Sicily and Calabria;
- Creation of 40,000 jobs, including direct and induced;
- Benefits for Tourism (70% of holidaymakers arrived in Sicily by car or RV), tourists from around the world to see the bridge (and also the extraordinary artistic and cultural heritage and landscape of Sicily: okay:);
- Ferries are slow, with accounts in red dirt and pollutants;
- 16200 firms autotraporto in Sicily;

And these are just some of the reasons for the creation, immediate, on the Strait of Messina Bridge.

:hilarious

Keep avoiding answer the questions :lol:
Reducing time to import / export of what??? :lol:
intermodality between the infrastructure...ehm....which infrastructure??? :lol:
40.000 very short term jobs? and how amny are being lost immediatly? :bash:
Benefits for Tourism? You got it very wrong my dear, only 35% of tourist get to Sicily by car, all the rest travells by airplain or hydrofoil.
Ferries are polluting??? :lol: absolutely speechless :lol:
and we already discuss the benefits for truckdrivers :lol:
and still no ufficial figures for the tolls rates for this bridge.

this table clears some points ;)

I agree with Shezan,
this table clears some points,

The main traffic route is the sea.

http://i48.tinypic.com/s0yck9.jpg

and again,
most Sicilians don't want the bridge.

:hilarious

and again,
most Sicilians don't want the bridge.

I haven't seen any statistics or reliable polls (University of Catania ideologically charged polls don't count) showing that. Even if it were nominally true, there is a misinformation campaing suggeting that if the bridge were not to be built, their cities would receive a good share of the bridge's money - never mind the total budget for projects suggested by "anti-bridge" radicals in their anti-progress hate campaing far exceeds the total building cost of the bridge :nuts:

As for traffic in the Strait, I'd appreciate to see some figures. Maybe Bluvia is carrying less vehicles because their ferry service is crap and now there is an alternative truck-ferry service from Messina Maritima to Reggio Calabria.

I haven't seen any statistics or reliable polls (University of Catania ideologically charged polls don't count) showing that.It is typical of Macaronis to cry out "Ideology! Ideology!" when data don't match their (highly ideological) vision of the world. So tell me, who's in charge to decide what's "ideological" and what is not?

wait, this hasnt even started yet? man i heard about this 3 years ago, i would have thought they at least had towers built!

I haven't seen any statistics or reliable polls.

Suburbanist I appreciate your questions
and agree that most polls are not reliable, the problem is which polls to believe.

I think that we all understand that the Calabrian are not bothered about this bridge,
and the regional goverment of Calabria last December has made it clear by pulling out from the project.

As I spend almost 3 months every year in Sicily I also get the chance to talk to who lives in Sicily,
and on my experiece most of Sicilians dont want the bridge,
most of them answer my question with a simple "and what should we to do with it?"
the commuters between Messina and Reggio use the Hydrofoil, they dont need a bridge.
since hardly any needs to go to Southern Italy, they dont need a bridge,
everyone that is going to Rome or further north use the airplain, and they dont need a bridge,
the figuers for container/goods travelling on ships with the "autostrada del mare" / "motorway of the sea" is constanly increasing,
and they dont need a bridge.
There is NO misinformation campaing suggeting that if the bridge were not to be built, their cities would receive a good share of the bridge's money.
It is much simplier, Sicilians dont want the bridge because it is of very little use to them.

Now if you really want some polls:

The Italian website of the bridge: http://www.pontedimessina.it/

http://i50.tinypic.com/ippeuw.jpg

Somewhere I found the polls from the Sole24ore (best financial newspaper of Italy), polls that said No,
that even if not voted by Sicilians was still voted by people that (we hope) undertsand something about economy :nuts:

Last and best the polls from the Sicilian Regional Goverment website
Polls started the 07/01/2007 and on the 16 Jannuary 2007 - Votes n. 16.707

NO 57 %
YES 34 %
It's not a priority 8 % (that I would count as a No)

So in only 10 days the score was 65% NO and only 35% YES
but all the sudden a miracle occurred :lol:
slowly but surely from that day on the Yeses started increasing with an amazing constant,
the polls ended the 07/07/2007 with 54% yes and 46% no
just to finish the credibility of the Regional Goverment :lol:

As for traffic in the Strait, I'd appreciate to see some figures. Maybe Bluvia is carrying less vehicles because their ferry service is crap and now there is an alternative truck-ferry service from Messina Maritima to Reggio Calabria.

As for traffic across the strait I guess some local knowledge always helps,

From Messina-Marittima yes you can find Bluvia/FS and the alternative truck-ferry service that you mentioned is based in Messina-Tremestieri,
great infrastructure that freed the city from the traffic of the heavygoods,
and the operator from Tremestieri is still Caronte like for Messina-Boccetta.
My figures were the sum from Boccetta and Tremestieri of the Caronte service, I cant find the figures (if I could I would) but I can assure you that only few truck drivers would drive past the Tremestieri piers (just off the motorway, about 300m) to drive into the city centre to ferry from Messina-Marittima.

If I find the figures I will be happy to post them :D

Are there any toll rates publicized yet?

Not yet. But the company STRAIT OF MESSINA S.P.A. have ensured that the toll will be higher than the current one for crossing with the ferries.
This is almost certain. :)

:hilarious

Keep avoiding answer the questions :lol:
Reducing time to import / export of what??? :lol:
intermodality between the infrastructure...ehm....which infrastructure??? :lol:
40.000 very short term jobs? and how amny are being lost immediatly? :bash:
Benefits for Tourism? You got it very wrong my dear, only 35% of tourist get to Sicily by car, all the rest travells by airplain or hydrofoil.
Ferries are polluting??? :lol: absolutely speechless :lol:
and we already discuss the benefits for truckdrivers :lol:
and still no ufficial figures for the tolls rates for this bridge.

I agree with Shezan,
this table clears some points,

The main traffic route is the sea.

and again,
most Sicilians don't want the bridge.

Suburbanist I appreciate your questions
and agree that most polls are not reliable, the problem is which polls to believe.

I think that we all understand that the Calabrian are not bothered about this bridge,
and the regional goverment of Calabria last December has made it clear by pulling out from the project.

As I spend almost 3 months every year in Sicily I also get the chance to talk to who lives in Sicily,
and on my experiece most of Sicilians dont want the bridge,
most of them answer my question with a simple "and what should we to do with it?"
the commuters between Messina and Reggio use the Hydrofoil, they dont need a bridge.
since hardly any needs to go to Southern Italy, they dont need a bridge,
everyone that is going to Rome or further north use the airplain, and they dont need a bridge,
the figuers for container/goods travelling on ships with the "autostrada del mare" / "motorway of the sea" is constanly increasing,
and they dont need a bridge.
There is NO misinformation campaing suggeting that if the bridge were not to be built, their cities would receive a good share of the bridge's money.
It is much simplier, Sicilians dont want the bridge because it is of very little use to them.

Now if you really want some polls:

The Italian website of the bridge: http://www.pontedimessina.it/

http://i50.tinypic.com/ippeuw.jpg

Somewhere I found the polls from the Sole24ore (best financial newspaper of Italy), polls that said No,
that even if not voted by Sicilians was still voted by people that (we hope) undertsand something about economy :nuts:

Last and best the polls from the Sicilian Regional Goverment website
Polls started the 07/01/2007 and on the 16 Jannuary 2007 - Votes n. 16.707

NO 57 %
YES 34 %
It's not a priority 8 % (that I would count as a No)

So in only 10 days the score was 65% NO and only 35% YES
but all the sudden a miracle occurred :lol:
slowly but surely from that day on the Yeses started increasing with an amazing constant,
the polls ended the 07/07/2007 with 54% yes and 46% no
just to finish the credibility of the Regional Goverment :lol:

Now I understand why you write here in the thread on the international bridge over the Strait.
Because you know that your statements in the forum would be categorically assessed Italian crap! :lol:

On many things you've written, you yourself know the answer because we have spoken hundreds of times:)

Patience... :dunno:

wait, this hasnt even started yet? man i heard about this 3 years ago, i would have thought they at least had towers built!

Well, in reality the work would have to start in 2006, then everything was blocked by the policy which opposed the bridge. :bash:
Since 2008 have once again started all the paperwork and finally began on 23 December last year, preparatory work (to make room for the pylon on the Calabrian coast) of the bridge. In short, they assured those on hand will begin Sicily. In the meantime, is proceeding with the drafting of the executive plan / final (starting from 1 February - news a few days ago:okay:) and this year the papers to the Bridge itself.

Negative note: (recent news):

The Region of Calabria is out with its share, the company Stretto di Messina SpA (political move - to put a spoke in the wheels on the bridge who wants it), but the company gave assurances that there is no problem in continuing 'bureaucratic process to the creation of infrastructure. (possibly also because the region of Sicily, which also share, will play its part!;))
BECAUSE SICILY WANTS THE MESSINA STRAITS BRIDGE!
:cheers:

P.S.
If you want to keep up to date, follow the discussion on the thread also Italian! ;)
:hi:

p

The Prodi government was a dark age in Italian infrastructure. I'm not a fan of seated government and its histrionic allies, but Prodi's tenure marked cancellation or mishaps in many important infrastructure projects, from high-speed lines to bridges and freeways.

Does this development has an official website?

Does this development has an official website?Here it is: http://projectdisaster.com/

^^What a stupid joke.:ohno:

Does this development has an official website?

What about this:

The Italian website of the bridge: http://www.pontedimessina.it/

http://i50.tinypic.com/ippeuw.jpg

^^What a stupid joke.:ohno:It is no joke at all, you fool. For your information, no feasibility and detailed technical study has been released yet. And we are talking about a zone that, beside being highly seismic, is geologically unstable, see the Messina mudslide of just three months ago that killed 18.

Peloso, don't be misleading, please. Japan is far more seismic acitve and have a hadunful of those long bridges. So is Lisbon (11km bridge). So is San Francisco (Golden Gate, Oakland Bay bridges).

The mudslides had to do with improper developemt of steep zones, not with any seismic activity. All the studies have been done, and the project IS going on.

It is no joke at all, you fool. For your information, no feasibility and detailed technical study has been released yet. And we are talking about a zone that, beside being highly seismic, is geologically unstable, see the Messina mudslide of just three months ago that killed 18.

It was a bad joke because he asked for a website of the project and you posted that link about the earthquake from Haiti? So what do you suggest, if there is a seismic zone, we shouldnt build anything? There were many studies made for the bridge, as talking about it lasts for many years...But you choose to ignore them and mislead the other forumers...

What about this:

Thanx Sal73x! :cheers:

Peloso, don't be misleading, please. Japan is far more seismic acitve and have a hadunful of those long bridges. So is Lisbon (11km bridge). So is San Francisco (Golden Gate, Oakland Bay bridges).

The mudslides had to do with improper developemt of steep zones, not with any seismic activity. All the studies have been done, and the project IS going on.Ok, I see we're deep in Macaroni territory here.
First off, Lisbon bridge (Vasco de Gama bridge) is 11 kms long, but it has a main span of 420 meters, not 3300, so it's not even remotely comparable. The Oakland Bay bridge has a longest span of 430 meters. Golden Gate has a main span of 1280 meters, but it is NOT quakeproof, so they are trying to retrofit it against quakes but this plan has not been carried out yet so its success is theoretical. Also notice that the Golden Gate is a road-only bridge, whereas the fabled Strait of Messina bridge is supposed to carry a railway deck too and thus the loads would be way bigger. The longest Japanese bridge is the Akashi Kaikyo, its main span is 1991 meters long, meaning it's more than one third shorter than the mythical Strait bridge. Again, the Akashi was initially planned to be a mixed railway-road bridge, but the Japanese thought again, and finalized it as road-only. Maybe the Japanese are not as experienced with anti-quake technology as we Italians :lol: Just take a look at what happened in L'Aquila, a 6 degree Richter quake left 230 victims, and this in a very low-density area. In july '09, a 6 degree Richter jolt hit very close to Tokyo itself, as a result 18 people got injured. The mudslide in Messina hasn't got to do with "improper development of steep zones", as you would have it, it has to do with improper development, period. The only one we're capable of in Italy, something the legendary Strait bridge would be a brilliant example thereof. The studies "have been done"? So where are they available to read? On the pontedimessina.it home site, under "tech data", a bunch of useless stuff is listed like the number of steel threads or the number of projected vehicles to use the bridge. Where is the hard stuff? I mean things like projected structural loads for the different components, or safety load margins, you know, this kind of stuff. Show me the data and I'll shut up, before that... "Sub, don't be misleading, please".It was a bad joke because he asked for a website of the project and you posted that link about the earthquake from Haiti? So what do you suggest, if there is a seismic zone, we shouldnt build anything? There were many studies made for the bridge, as talking about it lasts for many years...But you choose to ignore them and mislead the other forumers...I mean not many people would follow the link for real... it was a joke meaning it's bound to be a disaster if it gets built, one could tell at first sight, ok, maybe not everyone :lol:
It's not that we "shouldn't build anything", it's that we should build what is necessary and use some neurons and a proper planning before doing so, instead of blindly following political interests. Again, please show me these "many studies", or stop parroting and performing your pitiful theatrics.

Italy has dozens of tunnels and high viaducts, we never had a fatality due to improper construction of them. Indeed, our geological problems are more related to dams (Stavo, for instance...) I'd say.

What about this:


These surveys are worth very little. Not all sicilani is expressed through the Internet and / or through the site.
The Sicilians have chosen a provincial government, regional and national level which has among its priorities the creation of the work (of course not everyone who voted agree), but the will of the people have spoken so.
Period.
Resignation. The bridge over the Strait will be a reality! ;)

:hi:

Strait bridge: Summit at MIT on works related costs Messina

(AGI) - Rome, Jan. 21 - Summoned by the Minister of Infrastructure and Transport, Altero Matteoli, held a summit to examine the institutional and environmental aspects related to the spatial construction of the bridge over the Strait of Messina on the Sicilian coast. He reads a note from the department
Besides the Minister, was attended by Undersecretary Giuseppe Reina, the mayor of Messina, Giuseppe Buzzanca, president? Stretto di Messina ', Giuseppe Zamberletti, the amininistratore director, Pietro Ciucci, CEO of RFI, Michele Elia . For the Region of Sicily was attended by Eng. Salvatore D'Urso. The president of the province of Messina, John receives, unable to attend, is back on the assessments of the mayor Buzzanca with whom he had agreed the proposals forward.

Ciucci confirmed that the preparatory works to the bridge, already launched on the Calabrian coast on 23 December, will start on the Sicilian one in 2010 highlighting the need to share with local institutions in the various territorial and infrastructural issues. Ciucci also stated that the general contractor of the bridge will begin final design work the next prime February.

Buzzanca the mayor, thanking the Minister Matteoli for opening the technical board since 2008, has submitted proposals to be included in operational planning variants: the displacement of the central railway station to rid the waterfront of Messina in a small town south of choice between Gazza and Countess. In this respect there is a preferred technique for RFI Gazzi. Buzzanca has proposed the creation of three more stations to connect Papardo, Joust-Annunziata and Europe (city center) and, finally, a technical solution to avoid this in the cemetery of the ossuary Granatari. Regarding the location of the new central station Buzzanca give a definitive indication after the meeting of the City Council scheduled for tomorrow at Messina. "It was a very productive meeting - said Matteoli - which shows how to create a large work as the bridge by sharing with local institutions, not just the technical aspects and avoid straining that could cause adverse effects on the territory The bridge is Indeed, a European-level infrastructure that must be primarily for the cities of the Straits of Messina, Messina and Reggio Calabria, an opportunity for growth and development. messinesi I thank the institutions for their cooperation. "

http://finanza.repubblica.it/News_Dettaglio.aspx?del=20100121&fonte=TLB&codnews=720

Hi Everyone

Although I agree with some of the points the anti-Messina bridge people make, all of the points regarding earthquakes, landslides and any other disaster scenarios are all unfounded.

When was the last time in world history a large suspension bridge was extensively damaged by earthquakes, slides or strong winds? Suspension bridge decks and cables are designed to move several meters from any of the above scenarios and it is a known fact that extreme temperature changes throughout the year cause the Verrazano Narrows bridge deck to rise and fall by as much as 12 feet during different times of the year. The landslide scenario is simply absurd and yet another insult to the bridge engineers who would be building two of the world's most massive and deepest foundations. Surface ground movements cause damage in earthquakes, not the ground hundreds of feet down. Don't you wonder why there are never any stalagmites and stalactites smashed all over Italy's underground caves despite thousands of years of quakes? Don't you wonder why highway tunnels all over Italy never collapse after a major quake?

Despite mother nature nearly flipping the Tacoma Narrows deck almost sideways hundreds of times in a row, it still took hours for the bridge to collapse and neither tower nor cable ever collapsed or broke. It would be an insult to the engineers and contractors to say that the Messina bridge is somehow less safe then a "normal" sized span of 1,000 meters during a quake. That deck and those towers will have no problem shuffling, shaking and shimmying several meters for 30 seconds or so.

So the real reason to build or not build Messina relates only to money and prestige. The locals saying they don't want the bridge is simply not true. The locals just don't care for it since the cost will be huge with seemingly little benefit.

The real reason to build Messina is prestige. Italy will have the longest bridge span on earth - a record that is unlikely to ever be undone as the proposed 4,000 meter span Gibraltar and Japanese Hokkaido crossings are ridiculous fantasy bridges whose cost would make Messina look like pocket change with no benefit to their regions to offset such an unbelievable cost.

So maybe the cost of Messina is huge and I doubt there would be many tourism related benefits and little economic benefit in the short term. But tax dollars get wasted all over Italy anyway as they do in any large country. But who can ever put a value on the psychological and prideful boost the Messina bridge will give to Italy in the century that follows.

I would also like to use this moment to announce that China just opened the world's 2 highest bridges in November and December. China now has fully one half of the world's 100 highest bridges. Italy ranks second as the country in the world with the most number of high bridges. Italy's A3 had the greatest number of 100+ meter high bridges for more than a quarter century before China just opened 2 new highways that each have roughly twice as many 100+ meter high bridges.

In the U.S., the Royal Gorge Bridge in Colorado will soon be off the top 10 list of highest bridges. You can see all of the World's 500 Highest Bridges at my new website below. Nearly all of these bridges exceed 100 meters in height from deck to water.

Again you will see how amazing it is that China has more high bridges than every country in Europe combined plus North and South America and the rest of Asia. And there is more to come!

Thanks,

Eric Sakowski

www.highestbridges.com

Check out Italy's highest bridges directly here:

http://www.highestbridges.com/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Bridges_in_Italy

Have I missed any Italian high bridge spans?

I absolutely agree with Peloso statements. It's incredible how ridiculous certain argumnents are. Italy has very big problems about aging infrastructures and buildings not properly builte especially the building of the '50-'60-'70. The Aquila quake is a proof of these problems.

BRIDGE MESSINA: Ciucci, AS WE GO FORWARD WITH OPTIMISM TO PROGRAM

(ASCA) - Roma, Jan. 26 -''Let us go forward from calendar with the optimism of those who do.'' President Anas, Pietro Ciucci confirms that the bridge over the Strait of Messina there are no hitches.

Speaking with journalists on the sidelines of a conference AC, Ciucci explained that the bridge''it goes on as scheduled. In the next few days will start 'the program will begin as planned Eurolink that' the first febbraio although many activities' have been launched in advance.''


http://www.asca.it/news-PONTE_MESSINA__CIUCCI__ANDIAMO_AVANTI_COME_DA_PROGRAMMA_CON_OTTIMISMO-889522-ORA-.html

_________________________________________________________________________


MF Dow Jones - Economic Indicator
Strait Bridge: Ciucci, beginning work on early February

ROME (MF-DJ )--" In the coming days by the final design by Eurolink, which will begin as planned 'work in early February, although some activities' have been activated in advance . This was stated by the president of Anas, Pietro Ciucci, on the construction of the bridge on the Messina Strait.

President Anas, at the presentation of a book, has commented positively "the decision of the City of Messina, which yesterday approved new works, including a railway station. In short, he concluded, "we go forward with the enthusiasm of someone who does."

http://www.borsaitaliana.it/borsa/area-news/news/mf-dow-jones/italia-dettaglio.html?newsId=693856&lang=it

Waiting for the first pictures to come.

Waiting for the first pictures to come.

Double that...

It is possible that this project could be delayed due to Italy's current debt crisis?

:ohno:

Mike

Hopefully not.:ohno:

Waiting for the first pictures to come.

Double that...

http://i48.tinypic.com/290zb81.jpg

^^
The journal is of the 24th December 2009, the day after the works starting.

It is possible that this project could be delayed due to Italy's current debt crisis?

:ohno:

Mike

No. In fact the contrary. :) In a capitalist country like Italy, the government "can not" directly intervene with public money to help the economy in crisis. But indirectly, ie through substantial investment in public works and energy, just as it is doing (or say they do). So the money for infrastructure in Italy are invested specifically including the bridge over the Messina Strait. (which, remember, will create between direct and induced 40,000 jobs).
;)

Italy is not in a debt crisis. Uninformed journalists are putting Italy together with Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Greece, but, no, Italy is not on the verge of bankruptcy.

STRAITS BRIDGE: 3 DAYS TO KNOW ABOUT THE PROJECT


08/02/2010 - There are almost 3 days the most wanted event for finding out about the project construction of the bridge on the Messina Strait. Friday, February 12th at 14.30, in fact, the Minister Matteoli and the president Anas Ciucci, at the Palace of Culture "Antonello da Messina, Messina,
present the bridge project that will, in particular, the complex structure of the organization development and major companies engaged in the work, in the Sicilian side.

http://parcodeinebrodi.blogspot.com/2010/02/ponte-sullo-stretto-fra-3-giorni.html

I'm so happy to see the works taking place!!! Even if I will be leaving in the other side of the Atlantic by the time it the bridge is commissioned, I'll take a plane back to Italy to drive by on the first available opportunity :D

Palacultura At first light on the bridge. But expects the proceedings of the TAR of Lazio
At 14.30 the presentation of the project: there will be the Minister Matteoli, Ciucci and chief executive of Fs Moretti. Next Wednesday the Court's decision on the appeal of the Calabria Region inherent variant Cannitello

There will be a foundation stone, and it should be clarified, there is even an inauguration of Palacultura. But in the structure that seemed destined to become one of the great unfinished business of our city this afternoon, at 14.30, with freshly cooked on the plates of Messina, will be lit the first light of the "official" Bridge over the Straits. At the palace recently dubbed "Antonello da Messina" in fact, reach the Minister of Infrastructure and Transport Altero Matteoli, Anas president and CEO of Stretto di Messina Pietro Ciucci and the CEO of Ferrovie dello Stato Mauro Moretti for present the project, the organization of work el'iter the bridge. To introduce the work will be the president of the region, Raffaele Lombardo, that of the province, Nanni Received , and the mayor, Giuseppe Buzzanca. to illustrate the details of the project and the organization of the great machine, however, will be: Alberto Rubegni, CEO of Impregilo, and Carlo Silva, chairman of Eurolink, or individuals who represent the "General contractor" James R. Shappell, group executive of the Parsons Corporation, and Ettore Morelli, Country Manager, Parsons Transportation Group; Steardo Marco, Executive Director of the Environment Directorate Phoenix, and Edoardo Lozza , director of research GfK Eurisko, as regards the "Environment Monitor". All this, with some variations on these institutional players, will be repeated tomorrow morning at Villa St. John.

http://i45.tinypic.com/rrr154.jpg
work at Cannitello
(works without fault of the appeal to the TAR region of Calabria):bash:

While the spotlight to illuminate Palacultura (at 13 also provided a sit-in protest),the Strait of Messina'll be holding my breath until next Wednesday, when will the decision of the Tar Lazio on the action with which the region of Calabria has challenged the CIPE decision that authorized the creation of variant train Cannitello Villa San Giovanni , operates on the Calabrian coast is necessary for completion of the Messina Strait Bridge. The appeal was discussed at the first section of the Administrative Court and that 'confidential mechanism to decide sentence. In particular the region of Calabria contest the decision in which the CIPE, on July 31, identified in the company Stretto di Messina SpA, the new entity awarded the contract (26 million) instead of the Italian Railway Network (RFI) in the grounds that "the intervention is logged on and complements the design of the bridge over the Strait." According to the Region would be violated statutory procedures to approve the design and the principle of loyal cooperation between State and Regions. The Region of Calabria, in fact, had made a condition of its recommendation for the independence between the variant and the project Cannitello Ponte, who instead with the Strait of Messina contractor is inevitably subject to fall.

Sebastian Caspanello

http://www.tempostretto.it/8/index.php?location=articolo&id_articolo=24793

That's why no one has had more information about the work at Cannitello.
:ohno:

However they left as you can see from the photo.

13/02/2010
CALABRIA: MATTEOLI PRESENTS THE STRAITS BRIDGE PROJECT

http://i49.tinypic.com/2liht3s.jpg

(AGI) - Reggio Calabria, Feb. 13 - Present Minister of Infrastructures and Transport, Altero Matteoli, and 'presentation was made in Calabria, the design of the bridge over the Straits of Messina and organizational development for its realization. Attended the meeting, the President of the Province of Reggio Calabria, Giuseppe Morabito, the special commissioner of the municipality of Villa San Giovanni, Mario Rosario Ruffo, Anas President and CEO of Stretto di Messina, Pietro Ciucci, CEO and RFI, Michele Mario Elia.

The major companies engaged in the work, the Contractor General, Project Management Consultant and the Environmental Monitor, a partner of the Strait of Messina and Anas, explained the activities 'in progress and will shortly be launched, the process and the ways' of building bridge and its road and rail, shipbuilding, logistics and material handling, the environmental monitoring plan, the activities 'high surveillance, organization of offices in the territory, training programs, employment and l' induced. The speakers were among others the CEO Impregilo Alberto Rubegni, the President of Eurolink Charles Silva, the group executive, James R. Parsons Corporation Shappell and head designer of the Environmental Monitor Marco Scarrone. During the meeting, and 'was also explained the inclusion of the bridge, road and rail operators, under the Italian rail system.

''Even with today's presentation of the Strait bridge project - said Minister Matteoli - and it 'was clear proof that the work is' necessary not only to Sicily and Calabria, but for the whole country and Europe. Must never forget that the bridge is 'a small section of the Berlin-Palermo corridor, axle that will unite' Europe to the Mediterranean. The government, of which I am privileged to be part of, the bridge as priority works included in this European context, and believes that the realization of the artifact will determine 'drop other infrastructure work necessary to reference areas.''

http://www.asca.it/regioni-CALABRIA__MATTEOLI_PRESENTA_IL_PROGETTO_DEL_PONTE_SULLO_STRETTO-470283-calabria-4.html

:cheers: :cheers:

Italy is not in a debt crisis. Uninformed journalists are putting Italy together with Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Greece, but, no, Italy is not on the verge of bankruptcy.No, it's not on the verge. It's already in mid fall. Take a look at the GDP-debt ratio, it's more than that of Greece and waaay more than Spain's.

No, it's not on the verge. It's already in mid fall. Take a look at the GDP-debt ratio, it's more than that of Greece and waaay more than Spain's.

Debt/GDP ratio is not the only thing that matters. Japan, for instance, has a 214% ratio, and it is not on free fall. Interest paid, budget deficits and so on counts more.

Finally, Italian banks and real estate didn't suffer as near as much in those other countries, because some assets bubbles didn't gain so much traction in Italy too.

23 Dec 2009

GA_vKP7iC0o&feature=related

Documentary and design of the bridge over the Strait of Messina:

04c6zHeoe3A

:cheers:

Debt/GDP ratio is not the only thing that matters. Japan, for instance, has a 214% ratio, and it is not on free fall. Interest paid, budget deficits and so on counts more.

Finally, Italian banks and real estate didn't suffer as near as much in those other countries, because some assets bubbles didn't gain so much traction in Italy too.

So that means, the construction of this bridge will only met very few opposition. Well, in my opinion, the construction of this bridge is worthy enough to make the economy grow and put a pride to the country. It will be iconic once the construction is over.

So that means, the construction of this bridge will only met very few opposition. Well, in my opinion, the construction of this bridge is worthy enough to make the economy grow and put a pride to the country. It will be iconic once the construction is over.

:yes:

:okay:

So that means, the construction of this bridge will only met very few opposition.............

The reality is much different,
in Sicily and Calabria there is a huge opposition to this bridge,
from local coucils (that are currently not giving some of the planning permission needed),
from environmental organizations (of because all the unrepareable damage that will be done),
from local businesses (that live thanks to the commuting traffic),
from the commuters (that use the ferries/hydrofoils because they will carryon using the sea and not the bridge)
from local citizens (that will see their lives completely changed),
and many Sicilians and Calabrians that can't give a toss about this bridge because it wont change anything for them,
and over all, by all those Sicilians and Calabrians that have a "Penis" big enough to not need a bridge as penisextension to feel big,
like the "Italian" prime minister that decided for all this people.

Said that, that doesn't take away the fact that "It will be iconic once the construction is over",
...........if they will ever finish it.

Messina Strait Bridge: Ciucci, the first of April to final design by

Rome, March 3 (Adnkronos) - It will depart ', the first next April, the final design, from tower to tower, the Strait of Messina Bridge. E 'deadline confirmed by the President Anas Pietro Ciucci. ''We continue to respect the time schedule, from the first April he leaves the design of the bridge itself, from tower to tower, whose term and 'set 30 September ,''he said Ciucci, speaking on margin of a hearing at the Environment Committee of the Chamber.

"On February - recalled Ciucci - and 'playing the final design of the works on land that are about one third of total investment amounting to 6.3 billion . We hope to anticipate some works by the year working on the 'bankability''of the financial plan. have already been' earmarked 2.5 billion of public resources between contributions and recapitalization of the company '. During the year we put together the rest formed by private funding.

http://www.libero-news.it/regioneespanso.jsp?id=362165

:cheers:

Messina Strait Bridge: Ciucci, the first of April to final design by

Rome, March 3 (Adnkronos) - It will depart ', the first next April, the final design, from tower to tower, the Strait of Messina Bridge. E 'deadline confirmed by the President Anas Pietro Ciucci. ''We continue to respect the time schedule, from the first April he leaves the design of the bridge itself, from tower to tower, whose term and 'set 30 September ,''he said Ciucci, speaking on margin of a hearing at the Environment Committee of the Chamber.

"On February - recalled Ciucci - and 'playing the final design of the works on land that are about one third of total investment amounting to 6.3 billion . We hope to anticipate some works by the year working on the 'bankability''of the financial plan. have already been' earmarked 2.5 billion of public resources between contributions and recapitalization of the company '. During the year we put together the rest formed by private funding.

http://www.libero-news.it/regioneespanso.jsp?id=362165

:cheers:


I'm a little confused about when this bridge's proper construction will start. From the news video it sounded like they started work at Cannitello to relocate the railway away from the eastern pylon proposed location in December 09. They worked for 3 hours and then the work stopped? Why? Have they re-commenced at Cannitello since?

From the above post I understand that the detailed design will take from April 2010 to Septemeber 2010. Is this correct?

Strait of Messina Bridge - Video Progetto Costruttivo
by IMPREGILO S.p.A.

I3-hKaDyGVI

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Fantastico! Bellissima ricostruzione. :cheers1:

:banana:

^^^^

This video is not just a rendering but a video on how the bridge will be built. DO NOT MISS!

So that means, the construction of this bridge will only met very few opposition. Well, in my opinion, the construction of this bridge is worthy enough to make the economy grow and put a pride to the country. It will be iconic once the construction is over.

:cheers: Surely. Moreover, the immediate vicinity is somewhat poorer than average, hence their NIMBYs wackos have less leverage*

Of course, there are always people who think in terms of taking from Paul to give Peter... couple weeks ago there was an air pollution emergency in Milano and vicinity, and local politicians from various regions went to newspaper to said that "the Messina Bridge funds could build 400km of clean and green tramways or build 5 new subway lines".


*note: I'm Italian, have been in Messina dozen times, love the region... I'm just pointing out a political fact rather than trying to start any "you hate my hometown" turf).

THIS IS THE SYSTEM WHICH WILL BE BUILT ON THE CALABRIA YARD SIDE!
http://i41.tinypic.com/wbw9r6.jpg

THIS IS THE SYSTEM WHICH WILL BE BUILT ON THE SICILY YARD SIDE!
http://i42.tinypic.com/iyiibd.jpg

HERE IS THE METHOD OF CONSTRUCTION OF THE TOWERS, THE PORTS FOR THE TRANSPORT OF MATERIAL EXCAVATION AND SIDE YARD AREA OF SICILY!

http://i39.tinypic.com/15rh5ec.jpg

VIADUCTS, ROAD AND RAIL LINKS SICILY SIDE!

http://i41.tinypic.com/5tta1c.jpg

ENVIROMENTAL MITIGATION AND LANDSCAPE RENOVATION!

http://i40.tinypic.com/2n9bly.jpg

Are the towers going to be steel or concrete?

It has been my understanding that the towers are to be steel. Upon watching the video I'm still under the impression they will be steel due to the "shine" of the towers starting at the 1:36 mark of the video and further evidenced at the 1:44 mark. Certainly the lifting of the segments as demonstrated in the video reminds me of the Akashi Kaikyo Bridge's steel towers being constructed. I just never seen it done with pre-cast concrete segments in a suspension bridge.

Are the towers going to be steel or concrete?

It has been my understanding that the towers are to be steel. Upon watching the video I'm still under the impression they will be steel due to the "shine" of the towers starting at the 1:36 mark of the video and further evidenced at the 1:44 mark. Certainly the lifting of the segments as demonstrated in the video reminds me of the Akashi Kaikyo Bridge's steel towers being constructed. I just never seen it done with pre-cast concrete segments in a suspension bridge.



The two legs that are glued each tower section has a diamond 16x12 m, optimized in the wind tunnel for the effects of thrust and aerodynamic lift and the phenomenon of separation of vortices. The legs and the four horizontal beams connecting S 420 are made of steel with thicknesses from 40 to 65 mm, weighing a total of about 54,000 t.

The towers are founded on concrete plinths circular (diameter 55 m and 48 m in Sicily, in Calabria) deep about 20 m from the countryside. The plinths are contained by bulkheads perimeter 47.5 m deep and complemented by internal baffles down to -60 m connecting the structures with the deepest layers. The ground under and around it foundation is consolidated with jet-grouting.

Strait of Messina Bridge - Video Progetto Costruttivo
by IMPREGILO S.p.A.

I3-hKaDyGVI

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Fantastico! Bellissima ricostruzione. :cheers1:

:banana:

^^IT DOESN´T WORK!!!!!!111

"This video has some Sony Music Content and is therefore not available in your country". :bash:

:badnews:


P.S.: Thank you very much for the maps posted above! :applause: :bow: :applause:

^^IT DOESN´T WORK!!!!!!111

"This video has some Sony Music Content and is therefore not available in your country". :bash:

Try this page:

http://www.impregilo.it/impregilo/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=88&lang=it

Strait of Messina Bridge - Video Progetto Costruttivo
by IMPREGILO S.p.A.



:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Fantastico! Bellissima ricostruzione. :cheers1:

:banana:

This video is spectacular :cheers:

Finally something we can marvel at. I love the helicopter - it makes an appearnce on all the videos of the Bridge in the past, but this time it is actually working to bring the first strand across the strait.

This unbelievable brick.:nuts: Impreglio is finally using it for some publicity, which is a good sign that this project is definately going ahead this time. Impreglio has shyed away in the past.

[QUOTE=TRINACRIA FELIX;53406647]THIS IS THE SYSTEM WHICH WILL BE BUILT ON THE CALABRIA YARD SIDE!


THIS IS THE SYSTEM WHICH WILL BE BUILT ON THE SICILY YARD SIDE!
QUOTE]

This is great :nuts: The amount of work in the viaducts alone (on the sicilian side) is enough to be a mega project. :cheers:

My question is: Will the old lattice towers be dismantled once the bridge is built? I know they are a heritage item and the bridge will dwarf them, but they need to be removed.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Pilone_di_Torre_Faro_Messina_1.jpg/509px-Pilone_di_Torre_Faro_Messina_1.jpg

http://meclublaloggia.tifonet.it/Torre%20Faro%20di%20notte1.jpg

They really need to go.:ohno:

[QUOTE=TRINACRIA FELIX;53406647]THIS IS THE SYSTEM WHICH WILL BE BUILT ON THE CALABRIA YARD SIDE!


THIS IS THE SYSTEM WHICH WILL BE BUILT ON THE SICILY YARD SIDE!
QUOTE]

This is great :nuts: The amount of work in the viaducts alone (on the sicilian side) is enough to be a mega project. :cheers:

My question is: Will the old lattice towers be dismantled once the bridge is built? I know they are a heritage item and the bridge will dwarf them, but they need to be removed.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Pilone_di_Torre_Faro_Messina_1.jpg/509px-Pilone_di_Torre_Faro_Messina_1.jpg

http://meclublaloggia.tifonet.it/Torre%20Faro%20di%20notte1.jpg

They really need to go.:ohno:

Do not worry, the two towers and all adjacent areas are not covered by the work of building the bridge. The entire area will be reclassified and there is a project that has won a couple of years ago, an international project proposals.

Look at the aerial map and you will see that the towers are very far from where it will build the bridge.

Those towers are not bad at all...

The distance between the two exsiting steel towers is about 3640m.....

http://i44.tinypic.com/25hg5zm.jpg

While we wait for news...

Some photos of the towers,
the power lines have been removed in 1994,
the Sicilian tower is 232m tall, the Calabrian tower is 224m...

http://i41.tinypic.com/dxifyd.jpg

While we wait for news...

Some photos of the towers,
the power lines have been removed in 1994,
the Sicilian tower is 232m tall, the Calabrian tower is 224m...


Out of curiosity: do they now use submarine cables to connect the continent with Sicilia?

Out of curiosity: do they now use submarine cables to connect the continent with Sicilia?

Yes, and according to wikipedia since it's 2006 possible to visit the pylon on the Sicilian shore, however, one has to use a stairway with 1250 steps to get to its top.

Yes, and according to wikipedia since it's 2006 possible to visit the pylon on the Sicilian shore, however, one has to use a stairway with 1250 steps to get to its top.

No, thanks. Maybe if they put a scenic elevator and build a skyway up there :nuts:

I think they will be in the way of a good view from the north looking south. :puke:

http://www.maridelsud.com/Stretto%20Messina/Index/Fk01g_Stretto.jpg


http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/23802647.jpg

FOR ALL THOSE WHO WANT TO BE A THOROUGH KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THAT CONCERNS THE STRAITS BRIDGE YOU ARE CORDIALLY INVITED TO JOIN MY FAN PAGE ON FACEBOOK!!

TAKE IN MANY!

HELP ME TO GROW THIS PAGE TO BECOMING FAN'S AND SUGGEST TO YOURS FRIENDS .... THANKS!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/STROM-...7272366?ref=ts

CREATION OF ROAD AND RAILWAY TUNNELS

http://i42.tinypic.com/2dmbbk6.jpg

ROAD AND RAILWAY TUNNEL ENTRACES[IMG]

http://i41.tinypic.com/28vxgso.jpg

CANNITELLO VARIANT

http://i39.tinypic.com/b5k4k4.jpg

SECTION SCAFFOLDING

http://i42.tinypic.com/2rwulau.png

^^ Thanks Felix. These are some great renders. So what is the scheme blue for Sicily and Red for Calabria? I guess it helps, just in case you get lost. :nuts:

Also, what is the go with the Tunnel section for Canitello? Why is a section covered? :ohno: Seems like a little over the top.

Messina. Strait Bridge, by 30 September the final draft. The way to work next year

MESSINA - Start from April to the final design of the suspended part of the bridge on the Messina Strait. Will have 'to be completed by September 30 when, with the final draft, will be' submitted to CIPE also a financial plan updated. So 'Pietro Ciucci, CEO of Stretto di Messina SpA, adding that they are also being updated forecasts on traffic flows. The commencement of construction will occur in 2011, opening in 2017.

http://www.tele90.it/news/2010/03/26/messina-ponte-sullo-stretto-entro-il-30-settembre-il-progetto-definitivo-il-via-ai-lavori-il-prossimo-anno/8396/

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-15745.gifhttp://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-15745.gifhttp://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-15747.gif:dj:http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-15747.gifhttp://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-15745.gifhttp://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-15745.gif

...and when are the next National Elections in Italy? :blahblah:

Dont want to put a downer on the good news, but what are the chances that Berlusconi gets the ass next election and some wanker like Prodi cancells it again? Surely there must be a safety net, otherwise Impreglio will sue the government.

...and when are the next National Elections in Italy? :blahblah:

Dont want to put a downer on the good news, but what are the chances that Berlusconi gets the ass next election and some wanker like Prodi cancells it again? Surely there must be a safety net, otherwise Impreglio will sue the government.

Do not worry! The law called "Objective" built by Berlusconi is clear. Once that work is a priority for the Government no one can stop it!
From April 1 will start the final design which is virtually the start of the bridge.

If you are interested I invite you to become a fan of my page on Facebook where you can find everything related to the Bridge!

Do not worry! The law called "Objective" built by Berlusconi is clear. Once that work is a priority for the Government no one can stop it!
From April 1 will start the final design which is virtually the start of the bridge.

If you are interested I invite you to become a fan of my page on Facebook where you can find everything related to the Bridge!

Thanks Felix, but I dont have facebook (...I've resisted for so long).:)

Tell me something though, where has Impreglio's You Tube Video gone? I tried to show it to a friend the other night and it said it was taken off for copyright laws or something.

Thanks Felix, but I dont have facebook (...I've resisted for so long).:)

Tell me something though, where has Impreglio's You Tube Video gone? I tried to show it to a friend the other night and it said it was taken off for copyright laws or something.

I am sorry that you don't have Facebook (sign up soon) becouse my page is full of news and anything related to the bridge. On this page i will insert the pictures of the bridge construction sites and stages of progress!
This is the link where you can watch the video.

http://www.impregilo.it/impregilo/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=88&lang=it

MODEL USED FOR TESTING AT THE DANISH MARITIME INSTITUTE IN 1993!

http://i41.tinypic.com/znsivc.jpg

Thanks Felix. I found a real good power point presentation on the same site.:)

http://social.bioware.com/brc/933397

^^

I can't see it.

Pictures taken this morning in the affected areas to shift the viaduct Pantano and anchor block.
Shortly Iwill publish all areas to pass the bridge and building sites.
Sorry if the proportions are not exact but I think it makes equally good idea.

http://i43.tinypic.com/20rmlu0.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/fvikjn.jpg

^^

How many houses will need to be aquired and demolished?

Do you have any images for the Calabrian side?

Geez! The Sicily anchor block is almost reaching over to the other side of the peninsual!

For those who want to deepen knowledge on the subject, here is a manual of engineering construction of bridges (735 pages!). The chapter on suspension bridges is on page 390. Happy reading!

http://www.scribd.com/full/23365962?access_key=key-1i0m649ydvglr2fmiewg

Bridge: Catania experts enhance the project and engineers welcome the challenge
Friday, May 21, 2010 22:50

Peppe Caridi -
She concluded, in Catania, the conference 'The Bridge on the Strait, the Engineering Challenge': he was one of the biggest events ever produced great work on the Strait.

The Order of Engineers of the Province of Catania, which has promoted the event with support of highly qualified scientific committee composed by Enzo Siviero, Luigi Bosco, Vincenzo La Manna, Marco Mason, Joseph Puglisi and Andrea Santangelo (undisputed elite of the area ) has condensed into a day of top international experts in bridges. And talking about scientists, technicians who were the backdrop all the representatives of the main institutional bodies, political, administrative, academic, academics and unions.

The message issued by the organizers from the outset was clear: "Let us put aside ideologies and political affiliations, talking about the bridge itself. Also because works of this kind have no color type party. " So He's definitely developed a very interesting discussion unpublished until now: we talked about the bridge for over 14 hours without ever saying the word 'Berlusconi'. O 'Prodi' and so on.
:applause:

Main protagonists of the day were two foreign guests (see photo at the bottom article): the Dane Klaus H. Ostenfeld, COWI Honorary President of the company that designed the bridge over the Straits and the Chinese Man-Chung Tang, chairman of TY Lin International.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2jdp5i8.jpg
:cheers:

Ostenfeld with a long and fascinating report explains all the details of the bridge project, explaining the origins, motivations, methods of study, points of arrival and alighting numbers, technical data and scientific guarantees many of the reasons that have fueled battles no-pontiste. According Ostenfeld Bridge "will have no problems nor for earthquakes, or the winds, or other events. It 's designed to withstand natural disasters far more shocking than those that until now, the thousand-year history of the Strait, they hit this place. Even in Denmark - said - during the design of the Øresund Bridge, that connects my country Sweden, public opinion was skeptical and contrary. Over 50% of people did not want that bridge. From the day that was opened, no one can repeat that kind of position but they are all happy and content. "
Denmark, after all, is known as the 'homeland' of the Bridges. Here was formed the greatest engineers, architects and technical experts on pontistica. It 'a country which has always been leaders in building bridges: in addition to the Øresund, there is also the Storebæltsbroen, another large bridge that connects the two main Danish islands. I design two gigantic bridges: one in Germany and Denmark since another extension of two Danish banks.
The COWI, a Danish company the world leader now part dell'Eurolink, the consortium of companies, General Contractor for the design and construction of the Strait of Messina, is the most authoritative voice and certified to ensure the project Strait Bridge.

Immediately after Ostenfeld spoke Chinese Man-Chung Tang, chairman of TY Lin International (http://www.tylin.com/), a company founded in 1954 by Tung-Yen Lin and headquartered in San Francisco. It 's a prestigious consulting firm that provides full service engineering, technical and architectural design of the bridges most complex, difficult and special structures. The company carries out the planning, design and construction support for airports, buildings, bridges, roads, highways, ports, railways and much more. With offices in many U.S. states and in several Asian countries, the company has a professional staff of over a thousand engineers, designers, architects and scientists. Man-Chung Tang is their president and, in Catania, spoke for over an hour following the fascinating history of bridges in the world, illustrating the different types and, above all, recalling the various records that "competition in our industry is a underlying principle that drives innovation and the creation of wonderful works. " Man-Chung Tang explained the reality of China, showing a country that in recent years is growing so much that it becomes a paradise for engineers pontisti, for the quantity and quality of bridges that are requested and funded. Ponti, very often, "are made of natural areas much more complicated and difficult than the Straits of Messina, and in some cases require technical efforts abnormal, that the Straits have already been exceeded by the design work currently being drafted Final by Eurolink.

Actions already reported in the previous article, Siviero, Fiammenghi and other technical matters worse Italians go to and reiterate the guidelines expressed by Klaus H. Ostenfeld and Man-Chung Tang.

It, in connection with the conference title ('The Bridge on the Strait, the Engineering Challenge'), so that the intervention has provided a most fitting response to provocation is to Cirianni Francis, President Order of Engineers Province of Reggio Calabria. Cirianni has held high the flag and emphasized vocational skills of the class replying that "the engineers of Reggio, Messina and Catania are ready to accept the challenge of the Bridge." But, just arrived from Cirianni some notes which should make us reflect not so much on the technical feasibility (never in question, at least in the light of what emerged in this meeting) nor on the strategic work and its value (is out from doubt, no one can dispute the importance of the bridge, "said the same Cirianni) but rather the intentions political / economic in respect of such territory. "The Bridge - said it Cirianni - is strategic and important as a work of art, but can take a real meaning only within a system infrastructure. Bridge and other works are not alternatives, we must do everything together and for this I ask those of competence, Anas, to RFI, and even political forces and the Ministry of Government intentions that have infrastructure as well as the Calabria and Sicily Bridge, work on which we all agree. I refer, in particular, the high speed railway and the completion of roads and highways are essential for the development and enhancement of these two regions. Traced after a warning by Rodolfo De Dominicis, President of the Society of Freight Sicilians.
But in that sense, the responses of the representatives of RFI and Anas, who took the floor immediately after, were quite vague.

We are at the end credits of an article that will tell an important day, that if we are in some ways marks a thematic approach to the bridge, not by political or ideological point of view but rather, finally, Scientific and technical aspects.

A final reflection is required on the fact that an event so important and prestigious on the bridge of the Strait will be held in Catania. Not by Messina. Or at Reggio, Villa or Cannitello. In Catania. A city that has done its enterprising and entrepreneurial spirit of a horse battle to succeed in the market and the economy much more than they are able to do in recent decades, the two cities 'sister' of the Strait.
And we talked about in Catania Strait leaving no stone unturned. With full knowledge of the economic, infrastructural, social, natural, geological and cultural territory of Messina and Reggio.

While Strait was down several times to the streets to say 'No' to the great work, a few miles to the south but there are those who felt it is an opportunity to grasp.
One is reminded of a Serie A Reggina-Catania: it was November 4, 2006. Stadio Granillo Etnei the red and blue won the game 1-0 and the fans went home singing "we are, we are, we are the masters of the Straits."
Ironically, of course.
But not so ...

source: http://www.strill.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69215

:banana: :banana2: :banana: :banana2: :banana:

:cheers1: :okay:

When are the real works due start?

When are the real works due start?

Situation the 27 of May 2010:

No final project.

No money given.

Next elections in 2013.

Is actually anybody (outside Italy) believing Berlusconi????

stop politician fights...the works will start very soon, don't be liar..

stop politician fights...the works will start very soon, don't be liar..Exactly, in which one of his propositions he's supposed to be lying?

stop politician fights...the works will start very soon, don't be liar..

Ok lets leave politics out of this (a bit hard but we'll try :lol:)

What's very soon for you???
since there is no final project I find it difficult to believe
that works for the bridge will start before an other 3 years.

If 2013 means for you "Very Soon"....we have "Very Different" opinions.

Exactly, in which one of his propositions he's supposed to be lying?

Do you want to ask me the same question in 2016?
2016, year in which the bridge is supposed to be ready.

or would you like to talk about how anti-economical it will be?
or would you like to talk about from where is the money comming from?

or if the truth is that this bridge is only a "Penisextension" for someone that has unresolved "issues" :lol:

Do you want to ask me the same question in 2016?
2016, year in which the bridge is supposed to be ready.

or would you like to talk about how anti-economical it will be?
or would you like to talk about from where is the money comming from?

or if the truth is that this bridge is only a "Penisextension" for someone that has unresolved "issues" :lol:Maybe you didn't get the point of my question...

When are the real works due start?

They say 2011 (the works on bridge)
The propedeutic works started the last December, and some works started on the Messina side.

Look here: MESSINA | Tangenziale - Uscita V.le Giostra / Annunziata (Futuro svincolo Ponte di Messina)

;)

Situation the 27 of May 2010:

No final project.

No money given.

Next elections in 2013.

Is actually anybody (outside Italy) believing Berlusconi????

We do not care about political issues.
We think the bridge.

P.S.
You have been denied several times over your statements, SAL ;)

:)

They say 2011 (the works on bridge)
The propedeutic works started the last December, and some works started on the Messina side.

There is "no final" project,
there are no works and there wont be any till, at least, 2013.


P.S.
You have been denied several times over your statements, SAL ;)

:)

No project...no bridge
No money...no bridge.

We want "facts", we dont want to hear bullshit.

^^

Your NO is ideological and demagogic. Now, or you do not want the bridge to do.

You know very well that the final project will be ready by next September 30.
;)

The preliminary draft (and some of the NO-Bridge said that there is not even that) has existed since 2003.


News of 2003:

Today is presented: it takes 30 trunks to bring
Strait Bridge, the project only weighs 150 pounds
Introduced new changes: less tunnels and viaducts, the cost drops to 4.6 billion.


ROME - Every copy of the preliminary draft of the Strait of Messina Bridge's beauty weighs 150 pounds. To the already numerous drawings (347) must be added as many as 48 voluminous technical reports. And today, after the board of the Strait of Messina, which is the majority shareholder Fintecna, the company that has recently absorbed IRI in liquidation, has been approved, that project will be delivered to relevant ministries, the regions Calabria and Sicily, Anas and railways. The agency Ansa has estimated that 30 trunks will "like Grandma's" to bring all that stuff at your destination. The latest project is a bit 'different from that known so far.

THE NEW '- Similar sizes: a single span of 3,300 meters suspended 65 meters from water surface and supported by two huge concrete pillars, 380 meters high. But in the Strait of Messina said that the changes would have allowed "to improve by 25% 'environmental impact' than the 1992 version.
How? First, the proportion of arrival of the Sicilian shore span was lowered by 11 meters. This result, obtained by slightly increasing the slope from the center of the bridge to Messina, will save 20 km of tunnels and two viaducts. Consequently, expenditures should be lower.

SAVINGS - The concession company, chaired by the Minister of Civil Defence and managed by Giuseppe Zamberletti Pietro Ciucci, calculated a financial commitment of 4.6 billion euros. While the previous estimate was around 4.8 billion euros, rising to 5.4 billion if we consider the updating legislation. Taking good for these sums, the savings would be around then around 15%.

Funding - But today the company's Board of Messina Strait will be on the table also various options for funding the Bridge, with the court on each of these, the advisor PriceWaterhouseCoopers.
And next to a set of proposals more 'traditional', there is also not expected that the direct contribution of the state that has always been considered necessary by all the experts consulted.
Starting from the study of central Mediocredito in 1998 when the presidency was Gianfranco Emperors, produced the first outline of project financing for its development. And to continue with the bankers that more than a year ago were viewed by Infrastructure Minister Pietro Lunardi to verify the eligibility of the bridge, and that raised concerns about the financial return of an investment so impressive, especially because of traffic forecasts.
The idea is to use some funds IRI in liquidation, now in the pockets of Fintecna. Around 3 billion euros, which are nevertheless bound by the outcome of many disputes still pending. Of these, approximately 2 billion (40-45% of investment) would be used to recapitalize the company Straits of Messina, for the remaining 55-60% would resort to the market. According to the authors, this solution would have the advantage of not burdened the state budget. In a future perspective the Strait of Messina may also be quoted, following a pattern already implemented in the past with Autostrade.

Protests - The fateful day deadline did not leave indifferent environmental organizations. The presidents of Italy Nostra, WWF and Legambiente have asked Brussels to intervene to "restore law and demanded an international tender for the Bridge." According to environmentalists' the Stretto di Messina SpA can not be promoted on the field concession by law for the construction and management of the bridge, on pain of breach of the principles laid down by European law. " Statements Ciucci has called "outdated, why not consider that the company is classified as a public body, and is obliged to make international calls.

Sergio Rizzo

January 14, 2003

^^^^

Source: http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2003/01_Gennaio/14/ponte.shtml
(Corriere della Sera - most important italian journal)

:hi:

What the national media do not say:

Strait Bridge, the Community Foundation of the real key to trigger final
Tuesday, June 1, 2010

Ponte, bridge no. It 's amazing that after almost forty years the approval of Law No. 1159 (17 December 1971, under the Colombian government), by which it authorized the creation of a
private company with public capital, concessionaire for the design, implementation and management of road and rail fixed link between the Sicilian and the Calabrian side of the Straits of Messina (the company actually only established in 1981, called the Strait of Messina SpA), yet we continue to question the feasibility of the bridge, among other reasons with the most varied, most dating experts more or less credible, derived also internationally.

The weak point of the matter - according to various members of the "no" - is certainly the technical feasibility, being a single-span bridge of 3,300 feet, until recently the only example in the history of bridges.
Last Friday in Catania, at the Hotel Excelsior, the Conference "The Bridge on the Strait. Engineering Challenge, coordinated by Enzo Siviero (Vice President of CUN - National University Council) and Luigi Bosco (Component Monitoring Commission technical standards High Council Public Works - Rome), organized by the Order of Engineers of the Province of Catania WYLFORD collaboration with the Consortium of Milan, was given "blessing" to the final technical and scientific project.

A parade of academics and professionals of the highest importance, even internationally, including Man-Chung Tang (President TY Lin International - USA) and Klaus H. Ostenfeld (Honorary President of COWI - Denmark), Alexander Biddau (Vice President National Council of Engineers), Salvo Ando (Rector University of Enna KORE), Massimo Giovannini (Rector University of Reggio Calabria) Marco Eugenio Di Giandomenico (Professor POLIMI).

http://i46.tinypic.com/34j85xj.jpg

Also present Joseph Fiammenghi (General Company "Strait of Messina) and Mario Lampito (President Eurolink SCPA) and Mario Ciaccia ( Managing Director and General Bank Infrastructure Innovation and Development - BIIS Spa - Gruppo Intesa Sanpaolo bank ), who very clearly states: "The money is there and long overdue. The world bank operational needs only certainties that only politics can make ".

In short, no critical voice, perhaps a few less powerful voice tones or less defined, but the outcome of the scientific-technical conference was a clear "yes" to the bridge, a "yes" strong, mature, shared.

So? What is the problem? The problem remains the same: politics . Except the mayor of Catania, Raffaele Stancanelli, who opened the proceedings, all other appearances have announced the top end package: Raffaele Lombardo (President of Sicily Region), Giuseppe Scopelliti (President Calabria), Giuseppe Castiglione (President Province of Catania). The single incident in question came Mr. Goofy Reina, Secretary of Transportation, even the list of speakers, who in an outside program exception, affirmed the importance of the bridge and the need for its implementation without delay.

Marco Eugenio Di Giandomenico says well thatreal problem of Messina Bridge is the lack of a proper ethical and social communication with only one body so commissioned - and the Community Foundation, owned by all stakeholders of reference would be the best -could have been and can sensitize all stakeholders on the issue, trying to understand the legitimate expectations and trying to satisfy a work (the bridge in fact) that represents the revival of an important part of the south .The Foundation catalyze the popular consensus on objective data, consensus that the policy could not ignore.
ByPaul Mazzolari

Source: corriereinformazione.it
______________________________________________________________


Ecopass Strait of Messina

http://i50.tinypic.com/t9e728.jpg

For several days those arriving on the Sicilian coast of the Strait of Messina will have to pay a ticket. They range from € 1.50 for a carto 5.00 € for trucks and buses, up to € 8.00 for an articulated vehicle . The measure was taken from the Sicilian town mayor in his capacity as commissioner for the emergency caused by ferry traffic through the strait and will be used, are his words,"to improve traffic as a whole. " Excluded from the heavy tax the night and holidays, when traffic crossing causes less disruption to city traffic.

Data on the traffic between Sicily and the Continent are not listed on the website of the Port of Messina,,which merely indicates the number of passenger ferries, close tonine million year.The last data in the possession of your reporter back year 2000 , when the private ferry company has ferried approximately 2,640,000 cars and 627,000 commercial vehicles , while State Railways have approximately 510,000 Ferry. So on average a total of over ten thousand daily ferry a considerable volume of traffic and then crushed and oppressed the land crossing, the town of Messina. Today, the discomfort is definitely lower because most of the commercial vehicle passes through the port of Tremestieri directly connected with the motorway traffic. It remains, however, still a heavy burden for Messina, where there are also self-critical situations due to a careless use of their buildable land.

Over time you can determine whether the use of the proceeds will dell'ecopass or less virtuous, or whether it will be fully utilized for maintenance and integrating the city streets used by the still massive flow of vehicular crossing, or if it is destined to another, such example to increase current spending municipal, raising even more what Luke calls Ricolfi rate σ waste, including Sicily, Calabria and Campania have the unenviable national record.

How many things of this world, even the Ecopass is not good or bad in itself: that its use will be to decide.

Source: http://www.agoravox.it/Ecopass-nello-stretto-di-Messina.html

Aconex supports the construction of the world's longest suspension bridge

June 17,

aconex link: http://www.aconex.com/Software/Proje...aboration.html

Aconex, a company operating in construction, was chosen by the Eurolink consortium to provide its online collaboration solution design to project worth 6.1 billion euro for the construction of the bridge over the Messina strait. Aconex will manage the information and communication among international organizations involved in infrastructure works of the project.

Aconex to ensure all staff draft a common Web-based platform for managing information including drawings, documents and correspondence. With such a system, Eurolink and the other shareholders (Here! Eurolink is a private!) Can access, distribute and track information in real time, from anywhere, anytime.

Pietro Paolo Marcheselli, Project Manager at Eurolink, said: "A key challenge is to compare ourselves with communication between our project staff including Italian companies, Danish and Japanese. The progress of the project will generate a growing body of information to manage and control. Therefore important to rely on a central platform for information management and communications concerning the project be accessible to all parties authorized. "

3.7 km long and 60 meters wide, the bridge over the Strait of Messina connects eastern Sicily Italy. Will be supported by two pylons 382 feet high placed on each end and will include three highway lanes for each direction, a double track railway and two emergency lanes. The bridge, whose completion is planned for 2016, will be 3.3 km long main span, which is almost double the world record currently held by the Akashi-Kaikyo bridge in Japan.

Marcheselli added: "Aconex provides a substantial value to large-scale and complex projects such as the present. Our staff will be made in global terms to collaborate quickly and easily. Furthermore, the autonomy of the system by any member involved in this project and will encourage use and increase understanding. Aconex will also train and support each participant in the project, thus enabling us to achieve maximum value from the system. "

Designated by the Strait of Messina SpA, the company set up by the Italian Government in order to oversee the construction and installation of the bridge, the Eurolink consortium consists of: Impregilo Italian Society Pipelines SpA, Cooperativa CMC and Consorzio Stabile ACI (Italy ) Sacyr SA (Spain), Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries (Japan). The Danish civil engineering company COWI Group is the principal design consultant and Parsons Transportation Group provides consulting services for project management.

Aconex, www.aconex.com, is the world's largest provider of online solutions for design collaboration aimed at the construction and infrastructure. High of 35 offices worldwide, the company provides projects worth 220 billion dollars in 65 countries. Among his clients: AECOM, Parsons Brinckerhoff, Las Vegas Sands, IKEA and McDonald's Restaurants.

The original text of this announcement in the language of departure is the official version prevails. The translations are provided solely for the convenience of the reader and should refer to the original text, which is the only legally valid.

Source: ANSA.it

Aconex
Will Turbet, Aconex Marketing Communications, +44 20 7520 5470
Permalink: http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20100617006776/it

I have officially decided to reinstate my support of the Messina Strait Bridge Project. After the project was initially cancelled, I opted to support a tunnel instead. But since the Prime Minister decided to revive this project, i decided "Forget about a Messina Strait Tunnel". This project will be able to overcome any obstacles so that we can start construction on this bridge in the early 2010s.

Tuesday, June 1, 2010

Ponte, bridge no. It 's amazing that after almost forty years the approval of Law No. 1159 (17 December 1971, under the Colombian government), by which it authorized the creation of a
private company with public capital, concessionaire for the design, implementation and management of road and rail fixed link between the Sicilian and the Calabrian side of the Straits of MessinaThis is really a world-level project, even the Colombian government took part in it!!
So? What is the problem? The problem remains the same: politics . Except the mayor of Catania, Raffaele Stancanelli, who opened the proceedings, all other appearances have announced the top end package: Raffaele Lombardo (President of Sicily Region), Giuseppe Scopelliti (President Calabria), Giuseppe Castiglione (President Province of Catania). The single incident in question came Mr. Goofy Reina, Secretary of Transportation, even the list of speakers, who in an outside program exception, affirmed the importance of the bridge and the need for its implementation without delay. Now that Mr. Goofy Reina, secretary of transportation, made his voice heard, we can be sure the bridge construction will go on without a hitch!

I have officially decided to reinstate my support of the Messina Strait Bridge Project. After the project was initially cancelled, I opted to support a tunnel instead. But since the Prime Minister decided to revive this project, i decided "Forget about a Messina Strait Tunnel". This project will be able to overcome any obstacles so that we can start construction on this bridge in the early 2010s.

The tunnel project was put aside for various reasons, not only technical but also on the price.

The seabed in the Strait, also reaches its peak in the 200 m. And for this reason it was decided the single-span suspension bridge. :)

The die is cast! :D

Some news by italians thread:
PONTE SULLO STRETTO DI MESSINA - XII



Amenities: Ciucci, Anas investment in Sicily for 6.5 billion euros
(Ciucci, president of ANAS)

Palermo, July 12 - (Adnkronos) -''Sicily has all the potential 'to become a key plate logistics in the Mediterranean, has the capacity' to attract business and forces to intercept the important economic flows related to international transport. But to do this 'and' necessary to continue and bring to a conclusion the modernization of its main roads and highways. Only through modern roads safe and we can guarantee fast 'movement of people and goods.'' And 'what the president said Anas, Pietro Ciucci, at the opening today in the presence of the President of the Senate, Renato Schifani, a new upgraded 6-km stretch of highway 118' Corleonese-Agrigento ', specifying Anas that the investments being made in Sicily for more than 6.5 billion.

Sicily, with a road and motorway network of over 4,000 km, 20% of the network of national interest, and 'one of the regions in which Anas being greater investment, both new buildings dedicated to the activities' of operation and maintenance. Among the works completed and there 'motorway Catania-Siracusa, built in record time, with a total investment of over 700 million. It is technologically more highway 'modern Europe, which stands as a continuation of the Messina-Catania and constitutes an important branch of the Berlin-Palermo corridor - with the construction of the bridge over the Straits - will link' in a stable Sicily , projecting the center of Mediterranean trade.

Anas currently in Sicily, including work in progress, the next scheduled start and has investments totaling over 6.5 billion euros, of which approximately 5.8 billion relating to the work of direct responsibility Anas (including unplanned maintenance ) and almost 760 million euro investment for the expansion of the motorway network under concession (in particular the completion of the Syracuse-Gela). The amount does not account, however, share responsibility for implementing the Strait of Messina and its road links.




interventions Battipaglia-Reggio Calabria - in design


http://i32.tinypic.com/2unuhlg.jpg


Preparatory studies for the design of continuing the AV / AC up to Reggio Calabria consider various options and modes of circuit realization.

Among the hypotheses to the study, the joint intervention in functional phases, the first of which aimed at creating and activating a new line segment between Ogliastro Sapri (over 90 km), entirely variant to the existing line, the more bumpy the whole route. On the rest of the track from Battipaglia Ogliastro Sapri in Reggio Calabria, the assumptions in the study provide assistance with characteristics HS / upgrading and speeding up the existing line.

Overall assistance would reduce the time between Rome and Reggio Calabria percorenza just over 4 hours.

June 2010 is starting the preliminary design of variant-Ogliastro Sapri and is in the feasibility study for the rest of Battipaglia-Reggio Calabria.

***********************



quadrupling Salerno Battipaglia: project approval



Extending the AV / AC current activities to Salerno, is expected to be achieved through the quadrupling of the Salerno Battipaglia, about 25 km long.

In June 2010 during the process of approving the preliminary draft in the manner provided by law objective.


^^

Strait of Messina bridge: APPOINTED SCIENTIFIC COMMITTEE, Ballia COORDINATOR

(07/14/2010) - The Strait of Messina has done so in consultation with the Minister for Infrastructure and Transport, the appointment of the Scientific Board. The Scientific Committee has the task of technical advice for the monitoring of activities and address design techniques. In particular, the function to advise the Board of Directors of the Company as to the final draft and executive of the bridge over the Straits of Messina and its connections to the ground. The Coordinator is Professor Julius Ballio, Rector of the Polytechnic of Milan, specializing in the design of structures and consists of the following members:

Prof. Claudio Borri, Director of the Interuniversity Center of Aerodynamics of Wind Engineering and Construction, Civil and Environmental Engineering Professor at the University of Florence, specializing in aerodynamics and structures; Casciaro Professor Raphael, Professor of Structural Mechanics at the University ' Calabria, with a specialization in structure; Prof. Alberto Castellani, Professor of Earthquake Engineering at the Polytechnic of Milan, specializing in earthquake engineering, Professor Piero D'ASDI, Deputy Rector of the University of Pescara, Professor of Structural Engineering structures specializing in structures and suspension bridges; Professor Joseph Muscolino, Professor of Structural Mechanics at the University? Messina, specializing in structures; PRESTININZI Professor Albert, Professor of Earth Engineering at the University of Rome "La Sapienza", specializing in geology, Professor Joseph Ricceri, Professor of Geotechnical Engineering at the University of Padua, with a specialization in Environment and galleries; Professor Giovanni Solari, Professor of Civil Engineering and Architecture at the University of Genoa, with a specialization in structures and wind engineering. Scientific Committee are also participating: the engineer Joseph Fiammenghi, Director General of the Straits of Messina; engineer Fulvio Maria Soccodato of the Central Planning Anas; engineer Joseph Traini, Scientific Director of Italferr representing RFI]

Source: http://www.imgpress.it/notizia.asp?i...13&idSezione=2

:cheers:

P.S.
Sorry for my english (using Google Translate) :|

Brick how is the work progressing at the Canitello diversion?

Brick how is the work progressing at the Canitello diversion?

I don't know. The President of ANAS Pietro Ciucci reassured that the works are progressing in Cannitello schedule.

I also look forward to news and photos. :)

Have they considered a tunnel instead of a bridge? I'd have thought something similar to the Channel Tunnel would be more sensible.... 3300m sounds like a ridiculous long span - how high would the 2 towers have to be?