Lets discuss the changes in Vietnam today , And whats the future going to be for Vietnam ?

Let this Thread be as a mean to address the current political , social and economic issues of Vietnam . And let this thread be the " Think-Tank " Thread to recognize , to address those issues and to understand in depth of the fundamental problems and to finding solutions solving it .




Corruptions :


I think the should be an independent seperated goverment body , such as anti-corruption unit that is powerful enough to withstand any influence from the political stands , and can yet enforces the law and regulations to fight corruptions . but at first , there should also be an immediate commision panel to investigate and to issue reports of the current crisis from all goverment level .




Economy :


First thing , i dont know if there is any Economic Planning Unit in Vietnam , if there already is one , then they should come up with a detailed plan for shaping the economy sector .

There are certainly many ways the government can revive the economy and create more jobs . i think Vietname should invest more in the CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY !! Building more road systems and constructuring more buildings and basic infrastructures can create a lot of jobs . those can fuel the economy going . Think about highways , airports , rail road systems , ports , new cities and towns . you 'll be suprise of how simple as that can actually helps so much . If you have studied the history of many great nations , the very first thing they invested were the road systems !!


Privatise the national telecom , electricity , and postal services with open bid !! . this way , the goverment can cut expenses , attracting more foreign direct investment , and they can import the latest technology into the country delivering great service and affordable price ( with open bid ) .


Invest more in manufacturing industry !! create " free zones " - tax free areas and provide incentives to lure more foreign investors . create a one-stop center to assist foreign investor to speed up the process rather than having them to go thru the goverment's red tapes , that helps creating a more business-friendly environment .


I also think that Vietname should develop a more electronic and IT-based sector on its own , rather than just depending on foreign companies setting up factories and hiring local cheap labors . They goverment should fund more in technology , research and developing and to provide loans to encourage more SME ( small and medium sized entreprises ) entrepreneurships in the country !!

ha...i have a feeling this thread will also be closed pretty up soon....since we will talk about corruptions..politics...

well unless we all have an open mind, respecful, and have a constructive, critical discussion then im all in ...

if not then we just all basting each other opinion's and this thread will be closed too as with numerous other ones before.

I have to agree with Versalvin. Can we do away corruption in this world? Let alone, Vietnam. If not, please drop the subject.

I think it's good for you guys to evaluate and have constructive views on your country's challenges. There's no necessity for any bashing on each other's since you this discussion is for the future of the nation. Just look at the Philippines forum, Malaysian forum, they're all addressing the challenges of their nation with one vision and together as a nation.

Let's be subjective and discuss the pros and cons of the new and emerging Vietnam.

We may not stop corruption at its root, because it is human nature to be greedy; however, we can reduce it. In my opinion, we need strong multi-parties (check and balance) in the government and free election and speech, which lay the foundations in an effort to reduce corruption. VN lacks all the latter ways because the communist government is the only strong party and free election and speech are scarce.

However, we should keep our hopes up for a free VN. I believe when VN becomes more developed, the people become more informed of how other countries' governments run and treat their people and understand democracy, then the possiblities are limitless.

Today's infants will grow up to lead the country, and they would make major changes such as getting rid of the one party regime and introducing democracy again that the people were not ready for in 1954 to VN. VN is different from the USSR in part that the one party regime will be destroyed when it becomes economically powerful. The same idea where America treated the Vietnam War like the Korean War which was why they failed. So please invest in VN now for a free VN in the future.

I think it's good for you guys to evaluate and have constructive views on your country's challenges. There's no necessity for any bashing on each other's since you this discussion is for the future of the nation. Just look at the Philippines forum, Malaysian forum, they're all addressing the challenges of their nation with one vision and together as a nation.

politics is a normal thing....man, woman and child of all nations have the right to talk about....only in a facist states where opinions and ideas are oppresed and controlled.

the sad thing is politics and economies go hand in hand.......however many want VN to grow, but when it comes to politics they steer the wheel away altogether.

Vietnam is my country.....I have every right to talk about its politics and economy, no way, no way in hell can ya tell me what I can and can't not say.

that's why I see the majority of Vietnamese overseas are trying to stay away from the subject to avoid confrontation....and Vietnamese in the mainland avoid it because it has became habit.........don't talk.......politics in Vietnam only resevered for a certain people to talk and disscuss....those who are not in the communist party have to keep their sillence........if if you want to talk about politics, you can only go 1 path and 1 path only.......that is to praise the government........any ideas or opinions against it will ended up in a guillotine.

that's why acorrding to a 1997 statistic I read .......over 2000 government personels working in offices in the southern mekong area don't know how to read and write..........now ain't that a scary thing or not?.....they rule the people and they don't know what the hell are writen on all those documents.


even priests in Vn have to attend years and years in semitaries and universities and have atleast a degree or two before they can be ordained priest (the shortest time 5-7 yrs).....and the higher the the rank, bishops, arch bishops, cardinals, you have to have more and more degrees and learn new languages.........because why? the people sitting in your church, will be more than the seniors and the faithful, but also doctors, lawyers, scientists from a walks of life......you better be educated and who what the hell you're talking about in church.

as far as economy goes........Vn is not a growing country........it's a changing country.....not a growing country.
the economy in Vn is very fragile, and depends heavily on investments......some people see a few changes and instantly they think Vn is getting richer and stronger.......you are dead wrong......it's just a burst of bubble from the first time you open a champagne bottle.....after so many years closed to the world.......after that if you want to see grow, you have to know how to shake it
and you don't measure a country's wealth based on the number of big buildings or skyscrapers or shopping malls.......NO.
if you want to know a country is rich or not, count the number of poor people on the street, the homeless, the street children.

it's a joke when some people visited big major cities in China like shanghai, beijing see all the glits and glams and they think China is rich and will overtake the USA soon.
you gotta think......China riches is depends on what? investments, once all those investment pulled out, CHina will be a flat tire.
the USA, they are the producers, the manufacturers, the head offices of all things, Hollywood, casino, pop culture, sciences, Microsoft, IBM.......so eventhough they need foreign investments, they can also be healthy and grow despite investments or not.
think people, think
it's great that some people have pride in being Vietnamese and the country,,,,,,,,but VN is not the top of the food chain........and VN leaps 1-2 steps, the world and all those asian countries have gone miles.........I feel so sorry for some people when they compare Vn with the Phillipines in the future...........of course I know Vn has potential......don't don't predict the future........
during the 70s, despite the war, south VN remained a rich and strong state...they said all those countries like Thailand, Indonesia etc will need 10-20yrs to catch up.......but just right after the unification in 75, VN witself will need 10-20 to catch up to those countries.

as far as economy goes........Vn is not a growing country........it's a changing country.....not a growing country.
the economy in Vn is very fragile, and depends heavily on investments......some people see a few changes and instantly they think Vn is getting richer and stronger.......you are dead wrong......it's just a burst of bubble from the first time you open a champagne bottle.....after so many years closed to the world.......after that if you want to see grow, you have to know how to shake it
and you don't measure a country's wealth based on the number of big buildings or skyscrapers or shopping malls.......NO.
if you want to know a country is rich or not, count the number of poor people on the street, the homeless, the street children.

it's a joke when some people visited big major cities in China like shanghai, beijing see all the glits and glams and they think China is rich and will overtake the USA soon.
you gotta think......China riches is depends on what? investments, once all those investment pulled out, CHina will be a flat tire.
the USA, they are the producers, the manufacturers, the head offices of all things, Hollywood, casino, pop culture, sciences, Microsoft, IBM.......so eventhough they need foreign investments, they can also be healthy and grow despite investments or not.
think people, think
it's great that some people have pride in being Vietnamese and the country,,,,,,,,but VN is not the top of the food chain........and VN leaps 1-2 steps, the world and all those asian countries have gone miles.........I feel so sorry for some people when they compare Vn with the Phillipines in the future...........of course I know Vn has potential......don't don't predict the future........
during the 70s, despite the war, south VN remained a rich and strong state...they said all those countries like Thailand, Indonesia etc will need 10-20yrs to catch up.......but just right after the unification in 75, VN witself will need 10-20 to catch up to those countries.


I tried to think what South Vietnam had to be a "rich country" before 75. I'm sorry, I couldn't find any. Did it export food like it does now? I remember "gao My" (American rice) before 75. Did it have the infrastructures like it does now? For the little infrastructure it had, did it built by itself or by Americans and Australians. I have to disagree with the "rich" notion here. Was it rich because of the money from US tax payers? Why couldn't the South fight the VC with its own money since it was "rich." Why waited and begged for the US tax payers' money? It is hard to think the South was a "rich country", even in my dream!

The so-called rich South Vietnam was an illusion, fueled by American aid and spending by the hundreds of thousands of allied GIs looking for some good times with Vietnamese girls.

I'm disgusted with politic threads. Why don't we just stop talking about the "North" and the "South" in the good old days, it's pointless.

"and Vietnamese in the mainland avoid it because it has became habit.........don't talk.......politics in Vietnam only resevered for a certain people to talk and disscuss....those who are not in the communist party have to keep their sillence........if if you want to talk about politics, you can only go 1 path and 1 path only.......that is to praise the government........any ideas or opinions against it will ended up in a guillotine." <---------------+--I agree with you on those facts.

I believe the South had a vigorous market economy and a developed infrastructure (at the time) that was fueled by consumer demand dominated by the inflow of American military and aid. Northern civilians fled to the South in 1954 and an influx of country side civilians to the Sourthern major cities led to rapid urbanization. Pressured from the public here at home, Washington slowly withdrew the troops, and reduced aid to the South. The South fought on for 3 years before they succumbed to the communist North. The North's failed collective economy was disguised by the war, and by annual inflows of about US$1 billion worth of economic aid from the former USSR, China and several East European countries.

again, "rich" compare to the southeast asia region, not the world.
true: parts of the wealth were fueled by the AMerican........but did you know how many Vietnamese millionares we got in Saigon during those time?
and how many of the millionares burned their money after 1975 and commit suicide, escaped overseas?
you know the number of Chinese milllionares in CHolon got big inport n export businesses to other regions of asia?
....back then we didn't export rice coffee and beans, you know what we exported? our musics, movies, movie stars........what happens to the Vietnamese entertainment industry now? what ever music you're singing needs to be approved by the board of crap this and the ministry of crap that.
whatever movie ya making ya need to be censored before shown to the public.
if i were correct, currently they even tried to control what those entertainers wear on stage


before the war, there was no separation between north and south...vietnamese were namese....but after the war, mentally, spiritually we're like 2 freaking countries..

if anything during 1945 back, Hanoi was the country's concentration of elites and wealthy......if you wanted to be with the rich you go to Hanoi, not saigon......if you wanted to attend good universities, you go to Hanoi , not saigon........but after the communist took over guess what.....if you're hanoian comming to saigon they don't treat you like they did before.....but they will call you names...I know because I attended few years of elementary school in VN, and kids spoke in a northern accent will 90% likely to be treated differently by the rest...some of them got beat up during recess too because they spoke with the northern accent.

if you think about it....why is there a line of separation? Vietnamese don't hate vietnamese......but all of those things that I mentioned...caused by the communist government.

this is another problem with the Vietnamese, if there's a problem, sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened......but when the trash piled up until ya can't walk properly on the carpet, and start to trip and fell and hit your head and injure your body....that's when they say "how that happened?"

shike...if you go to any western world or even in asia, countries like Japan, korea etc......grade 6-7 kids will talk to you about politics more fluent than those ruled the VN government now.
that's why ya got to wonder ...how come all the young Vietnamese don't know much about VN politics and VN history......but they know so well the Chinese and Korean histories and their movies stars personal lives.

I believe I've mentioned this newspaper before but only talked parts of it. Kim Van Kieu story"

có 1 em học sinh viết "Thúy Kiều trầm mình ở sông Tiền Giang, nhưng may mắn hôm đó có một chị cán bộ đi ngang qua vớt lên và cứu mang về nhà nuôi coi như chị em"

what the f**k is that?

another story: bài tây tiến
"hôm nay em thấy thầy hiệu trường để tay sau lưng đi qua đi lại trước lớp em...... tướng đi hùng dũng, làm em liến tưởng đến chuyện Tây Tiến, nên hôm nay em tranh thủ lấy giấy làm một bài văn về Tây tiến"

at the ends of some of the student's examination essays
some wrote "Mong thầy cô thương tình em, cho em điểm đở một chúc, nếu không chắc em đành xuôi tay theo định mệnh đã ang bài"

the newspapers were fairly long, that are pretty much what I could remember.
if you don't like something....fine.....you're entitle to your opinion....as I'm to mine......but please, don't ever control other people in any state or form

Where did you get those newspapers' quotations? Were they from a comic page or from the coffee houses' jokes? Who were the Korean and Japanese middle school kids who could talk better politics? When did you meet them?

If you look back closely, many of those who were millionaires before 75 were associated with the war. That meant American tax payers' money. "Rich" comparring to its neighbors? Cambodia and Laos, perhaps! For the others, look to see how they did in 75. Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, Hongkong,
Manila, ... were more developed than Vietnamese cities? Think again. No matter what the older generation said, we have to have our own finding and thinking.

One example, Saigon was called "Hon Ngoc Vien Dong" because it was the "greatest city" in the Far East! Not true. People in Southeast Asia, except for Indochina, did not called Saigon the "Pearl of The Orient". That term was only true during colonial Indochina. Many people, knowingly or unknowingly, twisted this fact. One of my close friend used to live just outside Tan Son Nhut airport's perimeter before 75, he didn't have electricity, nor his neighbors. Well, they were "rich" with lamp oil!

We should do away with the false sense of being rich. We should find out where the money came from. Would you call Mr. Thieu was rich and did well with his tons of gold? If his career was stealing, he did, indeed!

Think, think, think, ...

@bang: i'm in UK right now, fair enough? nothing wrong with discussions on politic, but how we discuss it, and what's the result is the problem. We, as a country, were spilted once, do you want to see VNese community on SCC to be spilted again?

yeah think
after all I said ya still think the term "rich" is like over the hill ....world super power ..oh boy.
back then VN or south VN had a voice a place in the international community

now: if you go overseas and run into troubles....I hope that the first thing you do is run into a Vietnamese embassy or consulate and ask for help.....only then can you know what I'm talking about.

doesn't have to be oversea...take a look at VN, all those Korean and taiwanese bussinessmen.....they came to Vn for cheap labours....some time they refused to pay....and even as far as physically injure Vietnamese employees right on VN soil.....that's a slap in the face alright..........no where..no where on earth do you find a foreigner hitting a local..except for a magical place call VN.

if i remember correctly, just early this year 2 demenstration broke out in the south and central region of VN, because Vietnamese workers were forced to work long hours without pays.....and their monthy salary are only 600.000 dong

middle school students in the free world know the simple facts: communism is bad, communism is filthy, communism is dirty, and oppresive.

VN government: still think communism is the greatest thing on earth...they wasted school children hours and years to preach them communism.....look at russia....they threw away their trash and VN took it it and call it beautiful.

and sorry
I'm not a fan of Diem, Thieu or HO
Diem was a dictator therefore lost to Thieu.....Thieu was a nonsense therefore lost to Ho..and Ho is a facist, that 's why Vn is struggling.

"hon ngoc vien dong" belongs to the French period, when the French wanted to boast their power and image to other British, Dutch, Spanish colonlies in the region.and that tittle only stayed within the perimeter of the French district 1 and 3 ......please don't be confused.

The quotations: Kim van kieu I read in VN during summer of last year........tay Tien I read early this year on a VN newpaper here.
so if you live in VN search for old newspaer of last year or ask people around if they have read it.......I really have no time and the imagination to come up with those wild quotes.....those things only exist in the communist world.

and be thankful your friend used lamp oil .......now in some countries in the middle east and small town in Europe they still use cow dung for lighting.....I mean oil is a luxury :)

shike what are you talking about?

These are a few after thoughts:

1. I didn't know that you can do group demonstration in VN! The people demonstrated to ask for their well-deserved overtime pays. You made it sounds like "force labor." Perception, perception,... For those who chose to use force on their employees, did they get away with it?

2. There weren't that many Vietnamese tourists went on trips before 75. You wouldn't know what was going to happened when you run into trouble then. The ones who were able to make oversea trips were "big guys's" family members to perform the illigal trades, who would want to mess with them?

3. I did not know that the middle school kids in the "free world" have that strong political stand against the Commies. Are they taking political courses, or are being brainwashed like the ones who lives under communists?

4. Any one who is from former colonies of England, Spain or Holland, please speak up! Do you call Saigon the Pearl of the Orient? Or do you call your own Bangkok, Hongkong, Manila, or Jakarta a pearl?

5. For those who lived in a "rich" country and used oil lamp to light your ways as recently as 1975, consider yourself lucky. Stop whinning!


yeah think
after all I said ya still think the term "rich" is like over the hill ....world super power ..oh boy.
back then VN or south VN had a voice a place in the international community

now: if you go overseas and run into troubles....I hope that the first thing you do is run into a Vietnamese embassy or consulate and ask for help.....only then can you know what I'm talking about.

doesn't have to be oversea...take a look at VN, all those Korean and taiwanese bussinessmen.....they came to Vn for cheap labours....some time they refused to pay....and even as far as physically injure Vietnamese employees right on VN soil.....that's a slap in the face alright..........no where..no where on earth do you find a foreigner hitting a local..except for a magical place call VN.

if i remember correctly, just early this year 2 demenstration broke out in the south and central region of VN, because Vietnamese workers were forced to work long hours without pays.....and their monthy salary are only 600.000 dong

middle school students in the free world know the simple facts: communism is bad, communism is filthy, communism is dirty, and oppresive.

VN government: still think communism is the greatest thing on earth...they wasted school children hours and years to preach them communism.....look at russia....they threw away their trash and VN took it it and call it beautiful.

and sorry
I'm not a fan of Diem, Thieu or HO
Diem was a dictator therefore lost to Thieu.....Thieu was a nonsense therefore lost to Ho..and Ho is a facist, that 's why Vn is struggling.

"hon ngoc vien dong" belongs to the French period, when the French wanted to boast their power and image to other British, Dutch, Spanish colonlies in the region.and that tittle only stayed within the perimeter of the French district 1 and 3 ......please don't be confused.

The quotations: Kim van kieu I read in VN during summer of last year........tay Tien I read early this year on a VN newpaper here.
so if you live in VN search for old newspaer of last year or ask people around if they have read it.......I really have no time and the imagination to come up with those wild quotes.....those things only exist in the communist world.

and be thankful your friend used lamp oil .......now in some countries in the middle east and small town in Europe they still use cow dung for lighting.....I mean oil is a luxury :)

These are a few after thoughts:

1. I didn't know that you can do group demonstration in VN! The people demonstrated to ask for their well-deserved overtime pays. You made it sounds like "force labor." Perception, perception,... For those who chose to use force on their employees, did they get away with it?

2. There weren't that many Vietnamese tourists went on trips before 75. You wouldn't know what was going to happened when you run into trouble then. The ones who were able to make oversea trips were "big guys's" family members to perform the illigal trades, who would want to mess with them?

3. I did not know that the middle school kids in the "free world" have that strong political stand against the Commies. Are they taking political courses, or are being brainwashed like the ones who lives under communists?

4. Any one who is from former colonies of England, Spain or Holland, please speak up! Do you call Saigon the Pearl of the Orient? Or do you call your own Bangkok, Hongkong, Manila, or Jakarta a pearl?

5. For those who lived in a "rich" country and used oil lamp to light your ways as recently as 1975, consider yourself lucky. Stop whinning!


yeah think
after all I said ya still think the term "rich" is like over the hill ....world super power ..oh boy.
back then VN or south VN had a voice a place in the international community

now: if you go overseas and run into troubles....I hope that the first thing you do is run into a Vietnamese embassy or consulate and ask for help.....only then can you know what I'm talking about.

doesn't have to be oversea...take a look at VN, all those Korean and taiwanese bussinessmen.....they came to Vn for cheap labours....some time they refused to pay....and even as far as physically injure Vietnamese employees right on VN soil.....that's a slap in the face alright..........no where..no where on earth do you find a foreigner hitting a local..except for a magical place call VN.

if i remember correctly, just early this year 2 demenstration broke out in the south and central region of VN, because Vietnamese workers were forced to work long hours without pays.....and their monthy salary are only 600.000 dong

middle school students in the free world know the simple facts: communism is bad, communism is filthy, communism is dirty, and oppresive.

VN government: still think communism is the greatest thing on earth...they wasted school children hours and years to preach them communism.....look at russia....they threw away their trash and VN took it it and call it beautiful.

and sorry
I'm not a fan of Diem, Thieu or HO
Diem was a dictator therefore lost to Thieu.....Thieu was a nonsense therefore lost to Ho..and Ho is a facist, that 's why Vn is struggling.

"hon ngoc vien dong" belongs to the French period, when the French wanted to boast their power and image to other British, Dutch, Spanish colonlies in the region.and that tittle only stayed within the perimeter of the French district 1 and 3 ......please don't be confused.

The quotations: Kim van kieu I read in VN during summer of last year........tay Tien I read early this year on a VN newpaper here.
so if you live in VN search for old newspaer of last year or ask people around if they have read it.......I really have no time and the imagination to come up with those wild quotes.....those things only exist in the communist world.

and be thankful your friend used lamp oil .......now in some countries in the middle east and small town in Europe they still use cow dung for lighting.....I mean oil is a luxury :)

I cluck, you quack.....I think soon we'll both have the bird flu.

to make long story short...let me cluck for the last time then you can quack, then we'll go and get the vacination shots

your no. 1 point is the stupidest thing I've ever heard

2. air travel only accessible to the majority of the public for the last 20-30yrs......the VN war ended exactly 30yrs.

3 and 4. balonies

5. tell me where your friend located near the Tansonnhat airport......then I'll tell you the story....because I AM the king of Tan son nhat area.
if anyone live in saigon they will tell you tansonnhat is a suburb not the city's center......even that two big and crazy Truong Son and Cong Hoa streets surrounded the airport...used to be very quiet and remote......with hardly any houses....you could drive for 20-30mins and all you see along sides of the streets were fences and trees..even in the 80s......if you driven along those two streets at night you will hear frogs moaning and groaning.......that big maximart mall on Cong Hoa street....my family said in the early 90s that was a landfill. the entire street got no electricity......(last year I'm back they disn't even finish paving the street)
I was growing up in the 80s, and we got electricity and water like 2-3days in a week.....maybe blackout and no water for the entire week.
if ya go to some part of district 2, 4, 7, 8, 9 now (2005) you'lll see there are people still use oil lamps and well water............so what exactly is your point?

For those who are living in the middle of almighty Mekong's islands with electrical wires going into your huts and the TV antenas sticking out of your thatched roofs, consider yourself extremely lucky! People who lived in Saigon's suburbs, the "Pearl of the Orient" of the "rich" nation of South Vietnam did't have what you are having now. Let alone refrigerators, stereos, karaoke systems, paved roads,...

Forgive me, I thought Tan Son Nhut airport was at the corners of Le Loi and Nguyen Hue! And I thought that Saigon's population was ONE, not 8 millions like it actually is, so the other 7,999,999 don't have a clue about Saigon.

You win.

I rest my case.

no win or lose

I just hope that more vietnamese understand the concept of debate verses argument and dispute...they are two different things...totally 2 different things..please understand that.

just like Vn the country and it's government they are 2 different things. Young Vietnamses in Vn are brainwashed to believe that to love your country you have to love the government..this is the phrase I heard too often in VN "bac va dang"...."nho cong on cua Bac va Dang".....sorry..that's not how the real world opperates

you can't say that american traitors are the one voted for the John Kerrry and his democratic party....and american patriots are those who love George W Bush and his Republican party.....the "party" the "leader" the "government" they're all temporary.....the country is infinity...it's forever.

but the sad true is, the communist are rasing young kids to believe if you betray the communist party: you betray VN the country

"I'm not a fan of Diem, Thieu or HO
Diem was a dictator therefore lost to Thieu.....Thieu was a nonsense therefore lost to Ho..and Ho is a facist, that 's why Vn is struggling." "I just hope that more vietnamese understand the concept of debate verses argument and dispute...they are two different things...totally 2 different things..please understand that."
<-------------+- Well said Bang.

Current Event Time.........................................

Vietnam jailed man for 12 years for using Internet

Brief show trial and his number was up


By INQUIRER staff: Thursday 20 October 2005, 14:31

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL said it has launched an appeal for a man sentenced to 12 years in prison for using the Internet.
Nguyen Khac Toan, a maths teacher, was banged into clink in the Communist state for filing articles on the Web about democracy and human rights. Two other "cyber dissidents" are also in jail.

Toan had passed information on the Internet to overseas Vietnamese organisations about farmers demonstrated against official corruption and land confiscation. During a two month period he sent 24 emails and two disks to what the Vietnamese authorities called "exiled reactionary organisations".

Kate Allan, Amnesty's UK director, said: "It is shocking that using the internet in Vietnam can be considered a crime." Amnesty, in conjunction with Silversurfers.net, has launched an online appeal where people can complain online to the Vietnamese authorities. That site is here.

Even when Toac is released, he faces a further three years under house arrest. Amnesty said that he was granted access to lawyers only shortly before the trial started. µ

................................................

Ok, no win, no lose, Bang.

You presented your point, I did mine.

Let's go back to skyscrapers...

The upper class in Vietnam ie the those who are connected with the Party are extremely wealthy. These people all drive brand-new Mercedez, BMW, considering any cars would cost 3 times more expensive in Vietnam than in the U.S while the rest of the population is still using motorbikes. Hopefully the situation is getting better.

When you are party member,you can easily avoid tariffs and taxes on import cars...This is definitely unfair.

Yes..which leading back to the topic...not about for or against the communist party, north vs south....but if there is initially something wrong with this party in the first place...then it must be changed, must be challenged..

there seemed to be a perception that when Vietnamese overseas are objecting and wanted to challenged the party...they are immediatedly labled as looking toward the past too much...(to a small percentage of people yes) but i believe they and i do see the act of challenging the regime is because it is totally corrupted..inside out...top to bottom, it is incapable of utilizing and maximizing the country natural resources and as well as using 'smart people'

frankly speaking...as we all know economy and politic are two things in one...whaterver happening in one will affect the others....and if this is the best form of regime we currently having right now...then sorry we are not going to maximized our potential be be able to catch our neighbors..economically

further more these success we currently have...all the nice tall buildings erecting across Vn..they are good progress..im happy for it too...but heh we need to look at the big picture...these accomplishments are tiny...they are supposed to be reached 30 years ago...our neightbors...they reached these goals 30 years ago....and you tell me that there is nothign wrong and we shouldnt challenge a regime with 30 years of ruling and economically achieved virtually nothing!

yes people lives are getting better...not everyone...not enough..we simply can not measure our success by glamorizing all the time the fact tat we the second highest rate of growing after china.....this wont last long...again..a truely sucessful vietnam will need to be measrure in long term...and with the currently regime..not going to happen

The current regime won't give in their ruling elites power no matter what. It was put under economic sanction by the U.S and U.N for 20 years and nothing could remove it from power. I'm pretty sure this current regime won't hesitate to implement its "Tiannamen Square Policy" if any factions dare to remove them from power.

Versalvin, I agree with you. In fact we don't really need these commercial malls with entertainment hall, video games den, luxury shops....Makati city in the Philippines offers all of these and who can talk of the Philippines as a developped country ? What we need are libraries, universities, sport halls, stadium, green parks, research centres... But we don't see many of these among projects posted in this forum. I wish to participate into the funding of a private university in Dalat, based on the model of Cambridge University in England, with modern architecture though

Yes precisely. A strong Vietnam is not merely measure on how many nice little town buildings we erect. Beside all those nice luxurious shopping malls...tell me how many people can actually use that? Can the general population..avarage hard working citizen walk through that doors? If it takes an avage worker to work a week or even a month to afford a louis vuttion purse...then that is a not a succesful Vietnam.


A strong Vietnam is one with mass-educated public...and yes i wish we could build more universities and related-researched institution....not just any institution...but ones that are allow to think freely...intellectual are the ones who ASK...not obeying and listening to what ever the party says.

Yes precisely. A strong Vietnam is not merely measure on how many nice little town buildings we erect. Beside all those nice luxurious shopping malls...tell me how many people can actually use that? Can the general population..avarage hard working citizen walk through that doors? If it takes an avage worker to work a week or even a month to afford a louis vuttion purse...then that is a not a succesful Vietnam.


A strong Vietnam is one with mass-educated public...and yes i wish we could build more universities and related-researched institution....not just any institution...but ones that are allow to think freely...intellectual are the ones who ASK...not obeying and listening to what ever the party says.


A true university, a place were everybody can discuss about everything, were some talented people could find support for their breaking through ideas..

We also need Art halls, theater..., cultural house. Why should we need Louis Vuitton Purses, ralph LAuren sweaters and BMW sport cars !!!

That makes me laugh to shredding tears when I see those yellow skinned lads in SGN boasting Abercrombie&Fitch shirts...

What's wrong with wearing Abercrombie & Fitch shirts? I happen to like the clothes from the label and own a few A&F polo shirts myself.

this is the thing:
we keep call Vn communism.....and the Vn government , they are so proud calling themselves communists.
but the sad true is.....they don't know what communism is.
true communism are North Korea and Cuba...those are communism, they go by the communist book.

because in true communism there is no intergration of capitalism....those are water and oil...that's what caused corruption in the vn government, because they have the power in a free economy

like president fidel castro said "long live communism......commercialism is the root of all evil, so america will die soon......Cuba is strong and powerful because we don't have commercialism"

so you see.......those old men in the Battle of Dien Bien Phu.....they have never once set foot in universities.....but wanted to rule the country....so they have to use the war, and communism to help them stay in power........and that's what killed Vietnam.

they wanted the capitalist economy for a communist government....it's like the spinx of Egypt, haft man haft beast......or transexual.......my god, no wonder we look like shit in the internation world.

another sad thing.....not just VN but most of the asian countries too.
They keep talking about improving the economies, but their national treasures are being thrown on the street to beg, sell lotteries, postcards, dig garbage. prostitution.

ya know...... if anyone in VN has the "big money" I hope that they invest it in building not just schools or libraries but orphanages too.........bring all those kids out of hell and off the streets, and show them the light of days.

imagine with 10millions ya could build 1 skyscraper.......but with the same amount of money you could build hundreds of orphanages in all regions of VN and put thousands of kids to school......in 10-20yrs those kids will build VN hundreds and thousands of skyscrapers.

another note you have to take into consideration:
street kids understood well the meaning of hard work and education, they will take every opportunity, no matter how big or small you give to them. Try do that with kids growing up in a comfort of home and family....talk to them about education they will laugh in your face

Communist is the common term for the corrupt regime which took power in 1975. Every body know that they have never been communist neither socialist.

and how ironic is that Vietnam is the ONLY country in the world to use the world SOCIALIST in its conventional long form: THE SOCIALIST REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM

strange and unusual thing happened over the weekend.....some person name rambo came here and posted a bunch of things...and all of them were locked before I get to say anything hehehe

I feel so bad for you rambo :)
I just really don't understand why politic is such a touchy subject for VN when middle and highschool kids in America are free to talk and give their opinions.

Vietnam : có tật giật mình?

anyhoo....I hope when you talk about VN, doesn't matter what your belief is, don't be so hardcore...try to keep it neutral.

personally I'm not worry if the current Vn government will collaspe or not...it's just a matter of time.,,,,,,,,what worries me most is.....after the communist then what? another Diem or Thieu?

if he comes back again let us know.

it's our time...........funky techno Japanese-like dictatorship feodal anarchy government

i think good thing is , Vietnam is progressing .

Versalvin, I agree with you. In fact we don't really need these commercial malls with entertainment hall, video games den, luxury shops....Makati city in the Philippines offers all of these and who can talk of the Philippines as a developped country ? What we need are libraries, universities, sport halls, stadium, green parks, research centres... But we don't see many of these among projects posted in this forum. I wish to participate into the funding of a private university in Dalat, based on the model of Cambridge University in England, with modern architecture though

Education is already a given fact and government should focus on that one and I saw the name of one of the city here in Manila (Makati) that was mentioned :lol:, Let me just reitirate that on this side of South China Sea, it is our private sector and not the government who builds huge shopping malls in our metropolis. Shopping malls is part of the development (an alternative recreation for a city who lacks open spaces like huge parks) and it will gonna be constructed whether you like it or not in Vietnam ha ha ha because the biggest mall operator in the Philippines who constructed the Mall of Asia will be investing in Vietnam to construct a shopping mall to cater Vietnamese consumers. Foreign Direct Investment, right?