I wonder who is in charge of representing Manchester (and the North of England in general) to the overseas tourist market. The only reason I ask is that as an ex-pat living in The Netherlands, I ofter visit large European cities for pleasure and business, and I like to browse bookshops in my spare time. However, we seem as a region to be extremely badly represented in terms of tourist books. As an example, last week I was in a big book shop in Cologne and I specifically went on a hunt for tourist guides. I was faced, literally, with rows and rows of specialist books on London, Cambrdgeshire, Oxfordshire, the Cotswolds, Cornwall, and the South East region. There was 1 piddling book on the Lake District!!! :bleep: Of course there were some UK guides like the Lonely Planet series, but

Given that these cities are within a short plane ride away, shouldnt we be selling the delights of the city and region to our European friends?

I wonder who is in charge of representing Manchester (and the North of England in general) to the overseas tourist market. The only reason I ask is that as an ex-pat living in The Netherlands, I ofter visit large European cities for pleasure and business, and I like to browse bookshops in my spare time. However, we seem as a region to be extremely badly represented in terms of tourist books. As an example, last week I was in a big book shop in Cologne and I specifically went on a hunt for tourist guides. I was faced, literally, with rows and rows of specialist books on London, Cambrdgeshire, Oxfordshire, the Cotswolds, Cornwall, and the South East region. There was 1 piddling book on the Lake District!!! :bleep: Of course there were some UK guides like the Lonely Planet series, but

Given that these cities are within a short plane ride away, shouldnt we be selling the delights of the city and region to our European friends?

Guess it would be North West Tourist Board and Marketing Manchester (which markets the whole of Greater Manchester County = 2.6 million). They go over to Brussels enough, but maybe they're not pulling their weight. Gtr Manchester is the 3rd most visited city after London and Edinburgh so it must be doing something right.

Good point Rob, Manchester should be represented in book shops with city guides all over Europe and the rest of the world esp in the cities that have direct links to MAN.

In the summer i was in Waterstones looking at the city guides trying to choose which city to visit next , and after looking in one for Naples i chose that, im going there on the 25th of this month, it is a excellent way of getting tourists to know about your city and come and visit.

There is a organisation called Marketing Manchester which promotes the city around the world, i definatly think this is something for them to address.

I've noticed too that there seem to be far more guides aimed at southern England rather than the north. This is probably because London is the big draw in the UK and intercontinental visitors especially seem to base their trips around 'London plus somewhere else fairly near to London' such as Bath, Oxford, Stratford, Cotswolds etc.

Sadly the Northern English cities still have a rather dour and industrial reputation in many countries and need to be better promoted, although this does appear to be changing especially with regard to European tourists. City breaks to places like Manchester, Leeds and Newcastle are rising rapidly albeit from a small base.

The NorthWest tourist board (http://www.visitenglandsnorthwest.com/) is in charge of promoting the region but there's only so much they can do to influence foreign publishers to produce guides.

In terms of natural beauty at least, anyone visiting the UK who doesn't leave the South East is really missing out as it is probably the least interesting region in that respect.

Guess it would be North West Tourist Board and Marketing Manchester (which markets the whole of Greater Manchester County = 2.6 million). They go over to Brussels enough, but maybe they're not pulling their weight. Gtr Manchester is the 3rd most visited city after London and Edinburgh so it must be doing something right.


Skymann, yes Marketing Manchester and the Tourist Board do a great job , but for me they are not doing enough, when Europeans think of Britain they automatically think London, and rightly so because London is a great city to visit .
But over the last 10 years the rest of the UK as pulled there finger out ,with massive regeneration this is not just for the people of Manchester,Birmingham,Leeds ect its also aimed at pulling in new business and tourists.
I think 2002 (Commonwealth Games) was the turning point for Manchester , since then the city as changed dramatically , so now we should take this opportunity to take it by the scruff of the neck and start showing our city off to the people of Warsaw , Cologne , Amsterdam , and Madrid ect

It's only a matter of time before a Rough Guide/Lonely Planet is published of Manchester and Liverpool (and the greater North West)

Some of the places I've been have them (Melbourne/Victoria and Toronto/Ontario), yet these places are certainly no more interesting or touristy than our two great buzzing cities IMO.

i did work ex at marketing manchester... i can tell you a few things about them if you like...

As other have hinted there is only so much that NWTB, England's North West, Marketing Manchester and others charged with promoting the city/region can do. The publishers of tourist guides such as AA, Berlitz, Lonely Planet, Rough guide and those flashy ones with loads of pictures in them need to decide that a specific guide to Manchester will sell enough.

May be something to do with the lack of hotels in the area. Something which is only being rectified now.

No good promoting a place if there's nowhere to stay.

Melbourne is full of hotels, from cheap B&B's in St Kilda to grand hotels in the CBD.

May be something to do with the lack of hotels in the area. Something which is only being rectified now.

No good promoting a place if there's nowhere to stay.

Melbourne is full of hotels, from cheap B&B's in St Kilda to grand hotels in the CBD.

Or are there not many tourist hotels because there are not many tourists? Which came first, chicken or egg? It's true that most of Manchester's hotels seem to cater for business rather than leisure travellers.

There were no tourists in Benidorm until they built the hotels.

There were no tourists in Benidorm until they built the hotels.

Well, there were some, it used to be a nice little fishing village. I wouldn't want Manchester to become like Benidorm though would you? (not that there's much chance of that :D )

Well, there were some

Link

How do you define a tourist hotel though? Price? Amenities?

Manchester has a full range of hotel accommodation fromn hostels to 5 star luxury and everything in between although as is rightly pointed out there is probably nowhere near enough of each category at the moment despite the huge increase in bedrooms in recent years.

In terms of out-and-out budget tourist hotels and hostels there are a few...

There's a great backpackers hotel in the Northern Quarter called hatters

http://www.hattersgroup.com/

And of course there are the YHA who operate a couple of hostels in / near the city centre.

http://www.yha.org.uk/hostel/hostelpages/194.html

There are a couple of hotels in the gay village and a number of independent boutiqe hotels springing up around the city centre.

Outside of this there are the usual chains of course, together with the high-end 5* stuff such as the Lowry, Raddisson Edwardian and the forthcoming Hilton.

The North West Development Agency also has some responsibility as it is charged with the economic development of the region. Tourism is one of the key sectors of the economy it has identified

I wouldn't spend my hard earned cash in the North West. The only reason I go back now is because I get free bed and board courtesy Ma and Pa.

Tourism isn't the answer for the North West. It needs real industrial jobs, the kind they do in China for 20 pounds a week.

Otherwise it will be a city of people with money and people without and nothing inbetween.

I wouldn't spend my hard earned cash in the North West. The only reason I go back now is because I get free bed and board courtesy Ma and Pa.

Tourism isn't the answer for the North West. It needs real industrial jobs, the kind they do in China for 20 pounds a week.

Otherwise it will be a city of people with money and people without and nothing inbetween.

Mmm yes the Lake District, Peak District, Cheshire villages, the fantastic port of Liverpool and the vibrant cityregion of Gtr Manchester with all it's got for leisure, pleasure, retail, culture etc. Why there's so little you could spend your money on or see or do. Don't be an arse Isaac - NW England can stand it's own with any part of the UK, most of Europe and N America too. Our 7 million in this fairly small region pakc a real punch.

Yeah why would anyone want to come and see the Lakes, the home of the Beatles, the home of Manchester United? I mean, outside the NorthWest, no-one has heared of these.

If Lonely Planet don't come out with a Manchester city guide within the next year, I swear I'm flying my ass down to Melbourne and meeting with them about working on this project. Before you laugh think Milan and Barcelona. Wasn't so long ago that Frommer's or Lonely Planet wouldn't feature those 2nd cities. Manchester is just as great as they are. It's a case of knowing a place and selling it effectively. Manchester has appeal in the tourism market and its not suffering from overexposure like some cities.

Manchester = Renaissance
In the 1992 Lonely Planet England guide, Manchester was effectively referred to as a shithole. I think "Devil's Darkness" was the polite term they used. Either that or I'm quoting Karl Marx's Manchester years. LOL Fast forward to the 2005 England guide, Manchester is proclaimed one of the most vibrant and happening cities in Europe. Manchester's a city on the verge I'd say.

A city guide is going to happen, don't you worry.

ps. And please don't anybody mention "City Life Manchester" - about the only semi-decent travel reference guide I've seen on Manchester. I'm not including coffee table pictorial books or anything as they had a good one of Manchester for the Olympic bid around 93.
Anyway, back to City Life, I searched everywhere to get my hands on a copy. Went to the best travel bookstores in New York and Toronto - stuff on Manchester (outside UK guides) - zero. Time that changed I reckon. I did eventually get the latest City Life Manchester mailed over from an old flatmate living in Manchester. Thank God for him.

If Lonely Planet don't come out with a Manchester city guide within the next year, I swear I'm flying my ass down to Melbourne and meeting with them about working on this project. Before you laugh think Milan and Barcelona. Wasn't so long ago that Frommer's or Lonely Planet wouldn't feature those 2nd cities. Manchester is just as great as they are. It's a case of knowing a place and selling it effectively. Manchester has appeal in the tourism market and its not suffering from overexposure like some cities.



You can't honestly think Manchester is on a par with Barcelona!? Barcelona has over a million people packed into an area with an average of 400 people hectare. It has the superb climate, the sea ports, the beaches, hills with sky cars and more architectural gems than any English city.

Dream on.

Even if were not on par with Barc we still should have a guide. If you talk about Manchesters night life I bet it will easy come near the top. Theres a bar or club for every one.

In the space of ten years, Manchester has played host to the European Championships (soccer), Commonwealth Games, a UEFA Champions League final (soccer), which would have given the city exposure.

Isn't there a Rough Guide or Lonely Planet to Manchester United? I'm sure I've seen one. Perhaps they could combine the two, half for United, half as a guide to the city whilst visiting the shirts.

blabbern-Dublin and Edinburgh don't have the climate, beaches, hills either, but they get the tourists and the guides.

You can't honestly think Manchester is on a par with Barcelona!? Barcelona has over a million people packed into an area with an average of 400 people hectare. It has the superb climate, the sea ports, the beaches, hills with sky cars and more architectural gems than any English city.

Dream on.
We have attractions for a different type of people. Where we have no equivalent to those things in Barca, they have nothing to equal our Quays, our history, our sports or our nightlife. It's horses for courses. Barca is more for couples, whereas Manchester is more for young singles. As for density, what does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me that density makes a city better, or do you think the fact Manchester has the largest urban park in Europe and one of the highest numbers of golf courses in the world (with another 4 under construction right now) could be a factor in our favour?

We have attractions for a different type of people. Where we have no equivalent to those things in Barca, they have nothing to equal our Quays, our history, our sports or our nightlife. It's horses for courses. Barca is more for couples, whereas Manchester is more for young singles. As for density, what does that have to do with anything? Are you telling me that density makes a city better, or do you think the fact Manchester has the largest urban park in Europe and one of the highest numbers of golf courses in the world (with another 4 under construction right now) could be a factor in our favour?

Actually, I think Barcelona's water front and ports more than match the quays (-the best of which is in Salford is it not?) Sports? Try Barcelona football club and the 1992 Olympics. History- Barca has a history at least as interesting as Manchester's- think about the Basque separatist movement for example. Barcelona has the advantage of being the most loved city in Spain- even more so than the state capital. Architecturally- it stands out in the world, never mind Europe- and in this repsect it pisses on all of the UK cities- even Liverpool and London.
Density is significant- if you read Lord Rogers' report, "Towards an Urban Reniassance", density is held to be very significant in the achievement of socio economic and environmental sustainability- in whcih Barcelona was held up as an example that all British cities should attempt to mimic.

Also- when you talk about Manchester, do you mean the city or Greater Manchester? I only refer to the former- the CITY!

I'd agree that Manchester has more of a singles night life. This is the case for all of the British cities and our culture in this respect defines us from the continent. Personally, I find the continental experience far more sophisticated.

:blahblah:

you need a weekend break in manchester blabbs. ;)

Actually, I think Barcelona's water front and ports more than match the quays (-the best of which is in Salford is it not?)
Don't start being a boundary prick in here. Personally I see Manchester's and Barcelona's offering to be completely different in this respect. The Quays isn't just a waterfront and there are basically no ports at all now. It's more of a leisure destination for museums, shopping, watersports and loads of other stuff. Nothing like Barca's waterfront. If you'd been the the Quays, of course, you'd know this.
Sports? Try Barcelona football club and the 1992 Olympics.
Lets look over the past few years shall we... Manchester has had the Commonwealth Games, Champions League Finals, Womens European Championships, World Short Course Swimming, World Action Sports Championships, Super League (including final), Premier League (four teams), world boxing (Amir Khan, Ricky Hatton, Iron Mike), we're the only city outside North America to have staged a televised WWE event, IAAF trials, world squash championships, British squash and tennis championships, world's first paralympic world cup, rugby league, rugby union... need I really continue?

History- Barca has a history at least as interesting as Manchester's- think about the Basque separatist movement for example.
I never said it had less history. The simple fact is that Manchester's history is completely different and offers something unique that can't be experienced anywhere else in the world. It is a major string in our bow.

Barcelona has the advantage of being the most loved city in Spain- even more so than the state capital.

Architecturally- it stands out in the world, never mind Europe- and in this repsect it pisses on all of the UK cities- even Liverpool and London.
I don't know why you included Liverpool. Bar a few nice buildings, a lot of what Liverpool offers is nothing special. Most of Liverpool's listed buildings are listed for their maritime history, not for their architectural value. I think London, Manchester and Glasgow piss all over the rest of the UK's cities in this regard. Of course Barcelona has some great architecture, but it's of a different type. People going to see architecture would not go to Barcelona and think "no point going to Manchester as I already saw it in Barcelona".
Density is significant- if you read Lord Rogers' report, "Towards an Urban Reniassance", density is held to be very significant in the achievement of socio economic and environmental sustainability- in whcih Barcelona was held up as an example that all British cities should attempt to mimic.
Yes, I agree that density can help with urban renaissance, but it is not the only way to create a city. There are plenty of low density cities around the world that have a lot to offer. Look how many people visit LA. Dubai is also rising fast. Density is hardly a string in their bows. Density is not a fix in itself.

Also- when you talk about Manchester, do you mean the city or Greater Manchester? I only refer to the former- the CITY!
No you weren't. You were referring to the local authority. It has been proven time and again that this is not a city. Stop filling the thread with your anti-Manchester rubbish.

I'd agree that Manchester has more of a singles night life. This is the case for all of the British cities and our culture in this respect defines us from the continent. Personally, I find the continental experience far more sophisticated.
Sophisticated in some respects, but then much of their way of life is beginning to find it's way into our cities, what with the wine bar and street cafe cultures, later shopping hours and the like.

Every City is different. If you go to London it will different to Berlin. You go to Athens it will be different to Moscow. If you go to New York if will be different to Miami. Every City has its goods and bads. So if you go to Barca it will be different to Manchester. No point comparing because they both have different things to offer.

Actually, I think Barcelona's water front and ports more than match the quays (-the best of which is in Salford is it not?) Sports? Try Barcelona football club and the 1992 Olympics. History- Barca has a history at least as interesting as Manchester's- think about the Basque separatist movement for example. Barcelona has the advantage of being the most loved city in Spain- even more so than the state capital. Architecturally- it stands out in the world, never mind Europe- and in this repsect it pisses on all of the UK cities- even Liverpool and London.
Density is significant- if you read Lord Rogers' report, "Towards an Urban Reniassance", density is held to be very significant in the achievement of socio economic and environmental sustainability- in whcih Barcelona was held up as an example that all British cities should attempt to mimic.

Also- when you talk about Manchester, do you mean the city or Greater Manchester? I only refer to the former- the CITY!

I'd agree that Manchester has more of a singles night life. This is the case for all of the British cities and our culture in this respect defines us from the continent. Personally, I find the continental experience far more sophisticated.

What an utterly puerile, cynical and antagonistic post.

Could you explain something to me? In what way does Basque separatism concern Barcelona, which is in Catalonia?

It's only a matter of time before a Rough Guide/Lonely Planet is published of Manchester and Liverpool (and the greater North West)

http://nwda-cms.amaze.co.uk/DocumentUploads/RoughGuideMan.pdf

OK it may not be a full length guide to our fair city. But Rough Guide, NWDA and Manchester United got together to publish this pamphlet last year. And best of all, you don't have to pay for it.

I think copies were given to the visiting Italians for the Champions League final last year.

Don't start being a boundary prick in here. Personally I see Manchester's and Barcelona's offering to be completely different in this respect. The Quays isn't just a waterfront and there are basically no ports at all now. It's more of a leisure destination for museums, shopping, watersports and loads of other stuff. Nothing like Barca's waterfront. If you'd been the the Quays, of course, you'd know this.

The Quays area is amazing in itself, being the world's first and only inland port. Which other city has ever turned itself into a port by fuckin digging for 35 miles just to get to the sea?!

The Quays area is amazing in itself, being the world's first and only inland port. Which other city has ever turned itself into a port by fuckin digging for 35 miles just to get to the sea?!
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

A very MANCUNIAN response, Jongeman.......

Could you explain something to me? In what way does Basque separatism concern Barcelona, which is in Catalonia?

I think that might be a little difficult for him to do TBH. He's talking out of his arse. Barcelona does have history, lots of it, being once the capital of the kingdom of Aragon for example.

Something he might actually like to know is that here in Spain, Barcelona is often refered to as "The Manchester of Spain". :D The reason for this I'll let him try to work out for himself. ;)

why, I thank you SMP (bows).

I've heard that too about Barcelona being the Manchester of Spain. Did it have a textile industry, or is it just fuckin A1..?

If Basque/Catalan separatism is you're kind of thing, put "fenian ambush" in google, or look at the M.E.N's archive and type in "slab murphy" or "craven properties". Arf.

Have seen loads of tour guides taking groups of 20+ through town recently.

The Quays area is amazing in itself, being the world's first and only inland port. Which other city has ever turned itself into a port by fuckin digging for 35 miles just to get to the sea?!


I think I love you Jongy lol :lovethem:

Originally Posted by Blabbernsmoke
Architecturally- it stands out in the world, never mind Europe- and in this repsect it pisses on all of the UK cities- even Liverpool and London

Is this bit a joke or what?

More listed buildings than any other provincial city, more georgian buildings than bath in fairness.

More listed buildings than any other provincial city, more georgian buildings than bath in fairness.
More than half of those listed buildings are listed for their maritime history, though, and not for their architectural merit.

http://uk.geocities.com/allertonoak@btinternet.com/merseySights/NorthLiverpoolWF/StanleyDock.jpg

The buildings at Stanley Dock are boring at best, yet they are listed. At the end of the day Britain didn't have a lot of great ports so Liverpool's history as the best of them needs preserving more than Manchester's history as the largest mill town, of which there were many.

I'm not keen on this "my city is better" stuff.

Also- when you talk about Manchester, do you mean the city or Greater Manchester? I only refer to the former- the CITY!



What a thick arsewipe! Of course The Quays (On Manchester Ship Canal) are part of Manchester. Saying that Salford isn't part of Manchester is like saying that Trafalgar Square is not in London, but actually in the City of Westminster, for fuck's sake. The Quays are only one and a half miles from Albert Square (if we take that as the centre of Manchester). Manchester districts come to about 1.3 million, our met county of Gtr Mcr is 2.6 million. You can't argue that Westminster is in London, but Salford is not in Manchester - unless you are retarded. The boundaries in Greater London are the just a daft as those in Greater Manchester, but you have to take the metropolitan view of both of these great cities or it makes no sense.

What difference does it make if Salford Quays is in Salford - do you think that tourists won't go passed G-Mex on the tram as they will be leaving 'Manchester'?

Was in Waterstones today, having a look at some tourist maps, on the Manchester pop up map, the city centre map shows 'Manchester', 'Salford' and 'Trafford' - this is for tourists, and guess what, when they do the tourist stuff it doesn't concern them which council the locals pay their tax to when going around the area, to them, Old Trafford, Salford Quays and the city centre are all in the same city, despite some people insisting they are 3 totally seperate places.

Bladders - whereabouts on this map do you think the tourists stop as they are 'leaving Manhester', or does it not really matter that Salford Quays and Old Trafford don't pay taxes to the town hall in Albert Sq?

http://mc.multimap.com/cs/os50k//X15/Y15/X1532Y1588S25W700H400.gif

p.s. Manchester does not even play the same sport as Barcelona if we are making comparisions for tourism, let alone being in the same league, not a good comparision.

Think the likes of Lyon or Munich are much better comparisions, or targets, we aren't up there yet, but they are much better (and attainable) targets than Barcelona (which in my opinion batters even London for tourist attractions).

Of course Barca batters us and London. They have the better weather and a mint sea front.

Metrolink, seeing as you seem to have an opinion on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:City_of_Manchester

Please help me try to change the way Wikipedia describes our city by voting on my changes.

Will do tomorrow, off to bed soon.

Will do tomorrow, off to bed soon.
The discussion may be over by then. It's knife-edge right now, but others might come in and reach their own consensus.

so how do you reply then?

so how do you reply then?
You click "edit this page" at the top, type the message you want in the position you want and finish it with ~~~~ (this is how you do a signature).

Have done

Have done
Cheers metro. I think getting this wikipedia thing sorted is pretty important. I know lots of people use it, especially when looking at places to go in holiday, so I think we need it to reflect Manchester as well as it can. Also, maybe if a source like Wikipedia takes on this stance then it puts us on an equal footing to London (somewhat) in the eyes of business leaders and the like.

you're pretty committed eb. i know for one that i'd just go 'fuck this' and go eat a crunch corner, or something. :)

you're pretty committed eb. i know for one that i'd just go 'fuck this' and go eat a crunch corner, or something. :)
Quit yapping and help contribute to what people around the world see as Manchester. :tongue2:

The more we make our voice heard, the more likely they'll listen. I've managed to get the ear of a Wikipedia admin with this one so we do actually stand a chance.

I was going to, but then the whole process seemed a bit daunting. I'd probably delete it all.

I was going to, but then the whole process seemed a bit daunting. I'd probably delete it all.
All you do is click to edit, scoll to where you want your message, type it in and add ~~~~ at the end. You put a : before each paragraph to indent. The more : you put, the more it indents.

I posted my comment, but it doens't seem to be showing up. I used the ~~~~ .

I posted my comment, but it doens't seem to be showing up. I used the ~~~~ .
It's there at the bottom of the first section...

Right, i live in salford, i am a mancunian. I have yet to meet one person in my entire existence from salford that doesn't consider them self a resident of Manchester. Please carry out the proposed changes. Thankyou, kids in the riot. 86.1.49.182 22:12, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

ah, so it is.

ok ive done my bit EB lets hope your successful matey

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! U HAVE FAR TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS EARLYBIRD!! OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS I HAVE BEEN READING UR POSTS (IN ALL THE ROOMS U VISIT) - INCITING TRIBAL HATRED AND SIMPLY MAKING URSELF LOOK A PRIZE PRICK!! ARGUING OVER DISTRICT / URBAN / METRO / OFFICE OF NATIONAL STATISTICS / ANY OTHER GOV. / NGO DEFINITION OF A CITY BOUNDARY. CLAIMING THAT MANCHESTER IS SOMEHOW THE WORLD MODEL OF UTOPIA!!!! I HAVE LIVED IN LONDON FOR 12 YEARS - OOPS HANG ON, THE CITY OF WESTMINSTER TO YOU!!! AND HAVE LIVED IN MANCHESTER, LIVERPOOL, GLASGOW, SAN FRAN, NEW YORK AND LA. - WITHOUT ANY DOUBT MANCHESTER IS THE LEAST INSPIRING AND IN WORLD TERMS THE LEAST KNOWN OF THOSE CITIES. I REALLY DO LOVE MANCHESTER, I VISIT 3-4 TIMES A YEAR. IT HAS A FANTASTIC SENSE REBUILDING AND NOUVEAU RICHE DARE I SAY IT??? - BUT NO WHERE NEAR THE PASSION AND SENSE OF PLACE YOU FEEL WHEN U ENTER LIVERPOOL BY FERRY (IMO LIVERPOOL WIPES THE FLOOR WITH MANCHESTER), GLASGOW OVER THE KINGSTON BRIDGE, AND I KNOW IT WASN'T U THAT BROUGHT IT UP, BUT DON'T FOR 1 SECOND TRY TO COMPARE OXFORD ROAD TO LAS RAMBLAS !!!!!!! I COULD GO ON AND ON BUT I ACTUALLY HAVE A LIFE!!!!! MANCHESTER IS "OK" TO LOOK AT AND WILL LOOK BETTER WITH A FEW MORE TALLS, BUT YOU NEED TO SHUT UP AND STOP PISSING ON THE PARADE OF OTHER CITIES DOING AN AMAZING JOB AT REPAIRING THE DAMAGE THAT 18 YEARS OF TORY RULE DID. DON'T EXPECT ANY MORE FROM ME, AS I ONLY COME ON HERE TO CHART THE PROGRESS OF DEVELOPMENTS I AM INTERESTED IN. THIS IS IN FACT MY FIRST MESSAGE POSTED ON SSC. I WISH U WELL EARLYBIRD BUT DO SHUT UP!!!!!!!

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! U HAVE FAR TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS EARLYBIRD!! OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS I HAVE BEEN READING UR POSTS (IN ALL THE ROOMS U VISIT) - INCITING TRIBAL HATRED AND SIMPLY MAKING URSELF LOOK A PRIZE PRICK!! ARGUING OVER DISTRICT / URBAN / METRO / OFFICE OF NATIONAL STATISTICS / ANY OTHER GOV. / NGO DEFINITION OF A CITY BOUNDARY. CLAIMING THAT MANCHESTER IS SOMEHOW THE WORLD MODEL OF UTOPIA!!!! I HAVE LIVED IN LONDON FOR 12 YEARS - OOPS HANG ON, THE CITY OF WESTMINSTER TO YOU!!! AND HAVE LIVED IN MANCHESTER, LIVERPOOL, GLASGOW, SAN FRAN, NEW YORK AND LA. - WITHOUT ANY DOUBT MANCHESTER IS THE LEAST INSPIRING AND IN WORLD TERMS THE LEAST KNOWN OF THOSE CITIES. I REALLY DO LOVE MANCHESTER, I VISIT 3-4 TIMES A YEAR. IT HAS A FANTASTIC SENSE REBUILDING AND NOUVEAU RICHE DARE I SAY IT??? - BUT NO WHERE NEAR THE PASSION AND SENSE OF PLACE YOU FEEL WHEN U ENTER LIVERPOOL BY FERRY (IMO LIVERPOOL WIPES THE FLOOR WITH MANCHESTER), GLASGOW OVER THE KINGSTON BRIDGE, AND I KNOW IT WASN'T U THAT BROUGHT IT UP, BUT DON'T FOR 1 SECOND TRY TO COMPARE OXFORD ROAD TO LAS RAMBLAS !!!!!!! I COULD GO ON AND ON BUT I ACTUALLY HAVE A LIFE!!!!! MANCHESTER IS "OK" TO LOOK AT AND WILL LOOK BETTER WITH A FEW MORE TALLS, BUT YOU NEED TO SHUT UP AND STOP PISSING ON THE PARADE OF OTHER CITIES DOING AN AMAZING JOB AT REPAIRING THE DAMAGE THAT 18 YEARS OF TORY RULE DID. DON'T EXPECT ANY MORE FROM ME, AS I ONLY COME ON HERE TO CHART THE PROGRESS OF DEVELOPMENTS I AM INTERESTED IN. THIS IS IN FACT MY FIRST MESSAGE POSTED ON SSC. I WISH U WELL EARLYBIRD BUT DO SHUT UP!!!!!!!

Oh! the irony.. :weirdo:

Well, you don't have to be Sherlock to suss out yet another professional SCOUSER living in LONDON :|

I guess he uses upper-case letters because he lives in the CAPITAL.

He's been dying to get that off his chest for a while.

Ah well, as long as he's happy I suppose ;)

i'm actually from guernsey, c.i. but grew up in san francisco and l.a.!!! did live in liverpool for 9 months if that makes me some sort of a scouser???? i just thimk this my city is bigger than ur city is very very childish!!!! n.b. all lower case this time round - wouldn't want to upset a knight of the realm!!!!

i'm actually from guernsey, c.i. but grew up in san francisco and l.a.!!! did live in liverpool for 9 months if that makes me some sort of a scouser???? i just thimk this my city is bigger than ur city is very very childish!!!! n.b. all lower case this time round - wouldn't want to upset a knight of the realm!!!!

Just to repeat Terryfied's comment as it clearly didn't sink in last time:

Oh, the irony.

Well, you don't have to be Sherlock to suss out yet another professional SCOUSER living in LONDON :|

I guess he uses upper-case letters because he lives in the CAPITAL.

He's been dying to get that off his chest for a while.

Ah well, as long as he's happy I suppose ;)

I like the way you assume he's a scouser- you vitriolic twat! Believe it or not, people in Manchester hate scousers far more than vice versa, believe me. I have several Mancunion friends who would testify to that- you are an insecure lot on this forum and you just make a show of yourselves. It's a shame there aren't more people like Dgnr8 around here.

Scousers are known NATIONWIDE for being insecure whingers, constantly looking for sympathy, constantly moaning about how hard done by they are as though Liverpool was the ONLY city to suffer in the 80's. I tell you this now: If The Beatles came from Stoke then Liverpool would be NOTHING!! apart from the biggest former Slave Port in the world. If you don't believe that then your living in your own little bubble Blabber, they need to lighten up and stop thinking the world owes them something.

I think you've just proved my point there pal. Making silly, sweeping statements like a brainless moron. God knows what you think about blacks and foreign people when you despise folks who live 30 miles down the M62.

Incidentally, all of the people I have met NATIONWIDE (and I have lived in numeorus British cities), who have been to Liverpool, say they love it. Provincial peasants like you could do with leaving Manchester every now and again.

ROFL here.....are you suggesting that I am in some way prejudice?? Blacks and foreiners?? Hmm well for your info my PARTNER IS BLACK, and as for getting out of Manchester more..ive travelled the world mate, met many different poeple from many different cultures. What the rest of the world thinks of Liverpool is besides the point, they don't live in the UK and don't have to listen to their canstant bleating about how badly they are treated

Time for an Early Bird post demonstrating city de-population figures for regional British Cities!?

Just an observation but London is my least favourite UK city... full of ex-pats from all corners & tourists .....an horrific combination.....have you ever tried walking around say Leciester Square..takes an hour to go 40yrds, swerving on pavements loaded with foreigners (non London folk!!).. yuk

I like the way you assume he's a scouser- you vitriolic twat! Believe it or not, people in Manchester hate scousers far more than vice versa, believe me. I have several Mancunion friends who would testify to that- you are an insecure lot on this forum and you just make a show of yourselves. It's a shame there aren't more people like Dgnr8 around here.

scousers hate Mancunians far more than vice versa, believe me. I have several scouse friends who will testify to that.

Boris Johnson has you lot completely sussed.

Personally I don't think anybody would have bothered writing such a long message about me if they didn't care about the subject I was writing about. The fact they took the time to write the message indicates to me that maybe they feel threatened by the fact that they may soon have no reason whatsoever to use local authority boundaries to define a city. I take it as a compliment that this guy feels so threatened by the Manchester conurbation. :)

scousers hate Mancunians far more than vice versa, believe me. I have several scouse friends who will testify to that.

Boris Johnson has you lot completely sussed.

How can you possibly think that English people living 30 miles apart can be different to one another? Are you stupid or something?

Curly Turd- you sound like Hitler.

I like the way you assume he's a scouser- you vitriolic twat! Believe it or not, people in Manchester hate scousers far more than vice versa, believe me. I have several Mancunion friends who would testify to that- you are an insecure lot on this forum and you just make a show of yourselves. It's a shame there aren't more people like Dgnr8 around here.

I noticed laogacox posted his rant on the Liverpool forum.......

And you replied with a :cheers:

Black Kettle Pot etc.

I noticed laogacox posted his rant on the Liverpool forum.......

And you replied with a :cheers:

Black Kettle Pot etc.

Because on that point I agreed with him. In my subjective opinion Manchester has a long way to go before being the world city that people in this forum always claim it to be. But that is a matter of opinion. I never said anything about disliking Manchester, or people from there- nor was I insulting in the way I put my views across.

Because on that point I agreed with him. In my subjective opinion Manchester has a long way to go before being the world city that people in this forum always claim it to be. But that is a matter of opinion. I never said anything about disliking Manchester, or people from there- nor was I insulting in the way I put my views across.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cities

See "2 points". We're near Dubai and The Hague. :)

final note to earlybird!!! funny language u use in manchester - "threatened by the manchester conurbation" I live between 2 homes: Soho - in the heart of Europe's largest city and Lincoln Plaza in NYC - "THREATENED" by manchester???????? LOL LOL LOL.

Also note to "THEFLY" I live 2 minutes away from Leicester Square, and haven't been there for over 2 years. I avoid it at all costs! There's a reason u don't ever see Londoners there - BECAUSE IT'S CRAP!!! In the same way that Times Sq. and Les Halles is - and no self respecting New Yorker or Parisian would be seen dead there.

I'm sorry but I don't see what that is supposed to prove. It is based on some guys opinion- Bratislava is in the same category and that place is boring after about 3 hours of being there.

I'm sorry but I don't see what that is supposed to prove. It is based on some guys opinion- Bratislava is in the same category and that place is boring after about 3 hours of being there.
No, it's based on an international university study about how connected, and hence important, a city is. That is what a World or Global City is. Nothing in that article is based on opinion. BTW, did you notice that Liverpool didn't make the grade at all? Is that why you are calling it "some guy's opinion" rather than respecting it as the world-renouned international research project it is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cities

See "2 points". We're near Dubai and The Hague. :)

Well, yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. They at least state their criteria that they "ranked cities based on their provision of "advanced producer services" such as accountancy, advertising, banking/finance and law". I'm sure it's a well thought out and researched study, but....

Milan gets 10 pts and Rome (capital of Italy, with nearly 3000 years of important history behind it, and the home of the Catholic Church - hardly an insignificant organisation) gets 5 and becomes a "Gamma" city.......

IMO these sorts of questions (about the relative importance/fame of cities) are so subjective they cannot really be answered objectively, as much as well set out studies, such as this one, try to.

Well, yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice. They at least state their criteria that they "ranked cities based on their provision of "advanced producer services" such as accountancy, advertising, banking/finance and law". I'm sure it's a well thought out and researched study, but....

Milan gets 10 pts and Rome (capital of Italy, with nearly 3000 years of important history behind it, and the home of the Catholic Church - hardly an insignificant organisation) gets 5 and becomes a "Gamma" city.......

IMO these sorts of questions (about the relative importance/fame of cities) are so subjective they cannot really be answered objectively, as much as well set out studies, such as this one, try to.
History has nothing to do with importance though. Name a field that Rome even comes close to Milan in, other than the main ones of Religion and Tourism. Milan blows Rome away in economy, vibrancy, nightlife, sports... you name it, Milan beats it. Seriously, in my opinion the ranking of those two cities is spot on.

Nothing in that article is based on opinion.

Well, except the criteria chosen in the first place!

The point is it aims to show how important a city is financially/economically. It therefore pre-supposes this is synonymous with "importance".

If I chose (because footy is more important to me than world-finance) importance in world football terms as my criterion, my list might very well have Liverpool above Manchester (as a Utd fan it pains me to point out that Liverpool have won 5 European Cups to Man Utd's 2, and more championships.....)

Tokyo and New York wouldn't even make an Omega rating!

History has nothing to do with importance though.

In your opinion.

?

Well, except the criteria chosen in the first place!

The point is it aims to show how important a city is financially/economically. It therefore pre-supposes this is synonymous with "importance".

If I chose (because footy is more important to me than world-finance) importance in world football terms as my criterion, my list might very well have Liverpool above Manchester (as a Utd fan it pains me to point out that Liverpool have won 5 European Cups to Man Utd's 2, and more championships.....)

Tokyo and New York wouldn't even make an Omega rating!

Curly Turd- read the above post very carefully.

Jasper- it is a pleasure to encounter an intelligent and objective poster. On SSC they are few and far between.

Jasper- it is a pleasure to encounter an intelligent and objective poster. On SSC they are few and far between.

Why thank you.

For the record, not all (if many at all) Mancs go for this ridiculous Scouse-Manc hatred thing. I even (a very long time ago) fell in love with a lass from Crosby once (not L'pool I know, but she talked like a proper Scouser) ..... ah memories!

Have a good day sir.

Well, except the criteria chosen in the first place!

The point is it aims to show how important a city is financially/economically. It therefore pre-supposes this is synonymous with "importance".

If I chose (because footy is more important to me than world-finance) importance in world football terms as my criterion, my list might very well have Liverpool above Manchester (as a Utd fan it pains me to point out that Liverpool have won 5 European Cups to Man Utd's 2, and more championships.....)

Tokyo and New York wouldn't even make an Omega rating!

A global city is a city which has a direct and tangible impact on global affairs through socioeconomic, cultural, and/or political means.
They have factored in as many of those things as can be directly measured. As for Liverpool being ahead of Manchester in football terms, remember please that Manchester as defined by GaWC is the urban area. It's very hard to factor in such things as football as they have no fixed value. They are subjective.

I'd contradict your claim about football anyway, though. Manchester has more professional football teams per capita than any other city in the world. It also has the world's largest sports club (by number of supporters, second by profits). We hae the largest club ground in the UK. Also, the formation of the British Football Association in Manchester was the first step in making football a professional sport.

In your opinion.

?
No, in fact. Unless of course you think that the history of many areas of Egypt makes them worthy of World City status? Or Baghdad? History gives you a foundation on which to build importance, but it is not importance in itself.

I've never heard of the British Football Association, please enlighten me.

I've never heard of the British Football Association, please enlighten me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Football_Association

I'd contradict your claim about football anyway, though. Manchester has more professional football teams per capita than any other city in the world. It also has the world's largest sports club (by number of supporters, second by profits). We hae the largest club ground in the UK. Also, the formation of the British Football Association in Manchester was the first step in making football a professional sport.

Perhaps now some of the people around here will begin to see how much of an obsessive/compulsive weirdo you really are.- You need psychiatric help mate. Goodbye.

Liverpool would be NOTHING!! apart from the biggest former Slave Port in the world.
Totally unfactual, historicly speaking. In comparison to the slaves carried on the "Middle Passage" in Liverpool bottoms, very few (comparitively) slaves were ever landed at Liverpool. It is true that the ports merchants accounted for more slaves transported from places like Goree to the "New World" than any other European port and, that those merchants and, by extension, both the Port and City of Liverpool benefited immensely from this most nefarious of commerce. It must, however, also be pointed out that until 1967, the year Rotterdam (Europort Port) surpassed it, the Port of Liverpool was the largest seaport, in area, than any other port in the world. Also, up until 1962, the port of Liverpool registration accounted for slightly more than half of the worlds registered merchant shipping. Further, many corporations that are now considered international fixtures got their start in Liverpool. Tate & Lyle, HKSB, Royal & Sun Alliance, Unilever, Cunard Line, Orient Trading and Shipping Group, et al, ad nauseum.

There is little doubt that The Beatles have given, as of late, Liverpool it's prominance and, in recognition of the groups impact on world wide culture,Variety the music industries principal news outlet, on it's 100 birthday, have just voted The Beatles the most influential entertainment act of the Twentieth Century. This group has helped make Liverpool a brand name as recognisable as that of Coca~Cola, Ford, Rolls Royce, McDonalds, and once again, et al, ad nauseum. The Liverpool brand, I'm sure, is the envy of many of it's sister UK cities, including Manchester and if we are honest, and The Beatles notwithstanding, what city wouldn't want that kind of association and the accompanying world wide recogntion?

EB, I'm not sure you're getting my point?

They have factored in as many of those things as can be directly measured.

I doubt they factored in all the financial/economic data that COULD be measured - they will have made SUBJECTIVE judgements on these too.

There's plenty of other general data they could have factored in... Number of museums in the conurbation? Number of professional orchestras? No. Number of theatres? No. Number of people through the airport(s) No. Number of tourists per annum? No. And so on.

The point is their decisions of what to measure and what not to were SUBJECTIVE.


It's very hard to factor in such things as football as they have no fixed value. They are subjective.

I'd contradict your claim about football anyway, though.

I agree football is a subjective measure - AS WELL AS FINANCE. And if you read my post carefully I said Liverpool might very well appear above Manchester...

You above all people surely realise that to measure these sorts of subjective questions involves making equally subjective judgements on WHAT to measure and HOW to measure it in the first place.

EB did you not read what the study authors said?

they "ranked cities based on their provision of "advanced producer services" such as accountancy, advertising, banking/finance and law".

They didn't include cultural things etc. If they did, there's an argument they should've included football too?!

erm..

is it now a manchester vs liverpool thread?? ;-)

ok, both cities are not my home cities, also i am not british (sorry for bad english).

i am a travelagent and i am working for thomas cook germany. it is true that manchester is still underrated in the german market for example. but wait some years...

i promise you that the city is on a good way. not only for the tourism market also in the economic market. in the beginning of october there was a travel report in the "berliner abendzeitung". ok. that is not the big deal, but 2-3 years ago nobody took notice of the city in germany. the reporter praised manchester in all ways and compared it with london (!!!). ok he wrote it is "a little london". but the whole report was really a commendation for manchester.

last year i was for a workshop in manchester; the british tourist authority invited german travel agents for a tour in the north west area..

for me it wasn´t the first time in manchester, but for all other travel agents it was. and they was really ALL surprised. "lovely, beautiful" were just some words...
nobody expected such a lively city.

we stayed one day in liverpool too. i really loved the waterfront and the mersey, but for me it seems so that liverpool is still 2,3 steps behind manchester in case of redevelopment

Do you follow Schalke

Do you follow Schalke


schalke?? hehe no.. my fav. football team is the "msv duisburg"

schalke?? hehe no.. my fav. football team is the "msv duisburg"

Guten Tag!

ah Duisberg! A veritable giant of Weltfussball! :)

EB, I'm not sure you're getting my point?



I doubt they factored in all the financial/economic data that COULD be measured - they will have made SUBJECTIVE judgements on these too.

There's plenty of other general data they could have factored in... Number of museums in the conurbation? Number of professional orchestras? No. Number of theatres? No. Number of people through the airport(s) No. Number of tourists per annum? No. And so on.

The point is their decisions of what to measure and what not to were SUBJECTIVE.

Maybe you need to do a little more research on GaWC.

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/projects.html

If you actually take note, the initial project on globalisation (project 11) was based on producer services. Since then, however, a number of further studies have fed into the process, including ones that measure transportation, real estate, services, immigration and more. Trust me, they take account of anything that can be quantified.


I agree football is a subjective measure - AS WELL AS FINANCE. And if you read my post carefully I said Liverpool might very well appear above Manchester...

You above all people surely realise that to measure these sorts of subjective questions involves making equally subjective judgements on WHAT to measure and HOW to measure it in the first place.
How can measuring finance be subjective? They measure things like FDI, GDP, turnover, GVA, exchanges in each city, etc. These are hard, fast, quantifiable measures.

EB did you not read what the study authors said?



They didn't include cultural things etc. If they did, there's an argument they should've included football too?!
Indeed, cultural things are excluded. Fortunately, though, any cultural aspects which have a significant impact on a city's status globally also impact significantly on it's economy.

As an outsider Olli (and very good English by the way...) how do British cities feature in Germany? Do certain cities have a reputation (good or bad). Do some cities get mentioned more than others in Germany?

As an aside - I think everyone realises here that Manchester is in the lead in terms of urban regenration in provincial cities (regional cities if anyone is going to get uppity about the fact I said provincial) but I think thing shave to be factored in such as city size, when regeneration started, status in the UK, political affiliation etc etc.

For what my opinion is worth (and not very much, but no more and no LESS than anyone else on here), Liverpool is a more famous city in world terms - probably to do with football, the Beatles and the fact that so many ships have "Liverpool" on the stern. I am not sure about in European terms though.

Is Schalke Essen's team or do the fans only come from Gelsenkirchen ?

Guten Tag!

ah Duisberg! A veritable giant of Weltfussball! :)

Guten Tag zurück :-)

yes a giant of "weltfussball" ;-)
close behind to manchester united ;-) :jk:

Is Schalke Essen's team or do the fans only come from Gelsenkirchen ?

schalke is a part of the city of gelsenkirchen. the most people in essen hate schalke 04. typical local rivalry :-)

Trust me, they take account of anything that can be quantified.

How can measuring finance be subjective? They measure things like FDI, GDP, turnover, GVA, exchanges in each city, etc. These are hard, fast, quantifiable measures.

ANYTHING that can be quantified? Number of condoms used? Number of CDs sold? Number of letters in the city's name?

But you still don't seem to get the point. The DECISION to measure certain things (e.g finance) and not others is SUBJECTIVE. Further, a vast number of possible subjective measures themselves are by definition left out (such as football importance) because they are not easily amenable to objective measures.

This is what I would call pseudo-objectivity - because you find a quantity that you can measure easily (GDP, tourist visitor numbers, etc.) you ascribe it vastly more importance than one you can't easily measure (e.g. fame, cultural importance, historical importance). But the point gets lost - you're trying to answer a SUBJECTIVE question in the first place.

I think history is IMPORTANT, you do not. Who's right?

Guten Tag zurück :-)

yes a giant of "weltfussball" ;-)
close behind to manchester united ;-) :jk:

The way they're playing at the moment I'd have to agree, mein Freund!

:)

As an outsider Olli (and very good English by the way...) how do British cities feature in Germany? Do certain cities have a reputation (good or bad). Do some cities get mentioned more than others in Germany?

As an aside - I think everyone realises here that Manchester is in the lead in terms of urban regenration in provincial cities (regional cities if anyone is going to get uppity about the fact I said provincial) but I think thing shave to be factored in such as city size, when regeneration started, status in the UK, political affiliation etc etc.

For what my opinion is worth (and not very much, but no more and no LESS than anyone else on here), Liverpool is a more famous city in world terms - probably to do with football, the Beatles and the fact that so many ships have "Liverpool" on the stern. I am not sure about in European terms though.

thank you biosonic :-)

i think the names of both cities are very wellknown in germany and the most wellknown british cities with edinburg and london of course

liverpool because of the beatles of course. but also for the titanic and, that is not a compliment for the downfall of british industry :-(

manchester because of manchester united, the airport (!!!), the "manchester capitalsm", for music and the birthplace of the industrical revolution etc etc...

maybe it is crazy, because birmingham is one of the biggest british cities, but it is not as wellknown as liverpool or manchester... dont know why.

ANYTHING that can be quantified? Number of condoms used? Number of CDs sold? Number of letters in the city's name?
Surely the number of condoms/CDs sold reflects more on the importance of the producer market rather than the consumer market? This is why GaWC measure producers, i.e. the places that produce rather than those that merely consume.

But you still don't seem to get the point. The DECISION to measure certain things (e.g finance) and not others is SUBJECTIVE. Further, a vast number of possible subjective measures themselves are by definition left out (such as football importance) because they are not easily amenable to objective measures.
On the contrary, I think that it is you who doesn't get the point. This internationally accepted research, whilst subjective, attempts to be objective in this. Cultural aspects are taken into account in the research, but what it takes account of is purely the producer aspects as it is these that dictate influence.

This is what I would call pseudo-objectivity - because you find a quantity that you can measure easily (GDP, tourist visitor numbers, etc.) you ascribe it vastly more importance than one you can't easily measure (e.g. fame, cultural importance, historical importance). But the point gets lost - you're trying to answer a SUBJECTIVE question in the first place.
I never claimed the result was anything other than subjective, but if you'll pardon the term it is the most objective subjective research we have. It also conforms to general consensus on the issue.

I think history is IMPORTANT, you do not. Who's right?
I never said history isn't important. I said that it doesn't affect the importance of the place whose history it is.

thank you biosonic :-)

i think the names of both cities are very wellknown in germany and the most wellknown british cities with edinburg and london of course

liverpool because of the beatles of course. but also for the titanic and, that is not a compliment for the downfall of british industry :-(

manchester because of manchester united, the airport (!!!), the "manchester capitalsm", for music and the birthplace of the industrical revolution etc etc...

maybe it is crazy, because birmingham is one of the biggest british cities, but it is not as wellknown as liverpool or manchester... dont know why.

Thanks Olli - it is intereting to see things from a different viewpoint. It is also interesting that certain misconceptions are seen not just in the UK but abroad (for example the Industrial Revolution was born in Ironbridge/Blists Hill in Shropshire and not Manchester).

With regard to Birmingham, I think its low profile comes from it being a city that is borne of an unglamorous past - industry and manufacture etc, although historic figures such as James Watt and Matthew Boulton and the Cadbury family lived here. Also for decades Birmingham has been ashamed of its appearance with the concrete that was inflicted in the 1960's and 70's and the roads and motorways running through it. Birmingham seemed to function as a collection of towns and villages rather than an integrated city. I think it is a case of the Ugly Duckling turning into a Beautiful Swan now though :)

What do people think of German cities' profiles? For me the big 3 are Munchen(Munich), Frankfurt and Berlin. I have only visited Frankfurt and thought it a very beautiful (and large!) city. It is odd how Bonn doesn't have such a high profile yet was the seat of government.

No, it's based on an international university study about how connected, and hence important, a city is. That is what a World or Global City is. Nothing in that article is based on opinion. BTW, did you notice that Liverpool didn't make the grade at all? Is that why you are calling it "some guy's opinion" rather than respecting it as the world-renouned international research project it is?
Mmm, given the above post, I think then you should have said
No, it's based on a subjective but yet pseudo-objective international university study about how connected, and hence important (subjectively defined of course), a city is. That is what a World or Global City is. Nothing in that article is based on opinion apart from the choice of economic metrics used. BTW, did you notice that Liverpool didn't make the grade at all? Is that why you are calling it "some guy's opinion" rather than respecting it as the world-renouned international research project it is?

These sorts of studies remind me of these projects to find the world's most beautiful woman by defining parameters such as the "perfect" nose geometry and size, the perfect nose length to lip length ratio, the perfect bust to waist to hip ratios etc. They then find a woman who has all these features perfectly and then claim they've proved that this woman is the world's most beautiful..... crazy.

[QUOTE=Biosonic]Thanks Olli - it is intereting to see things from a different viewpoint. It is also interesting that certain misconceptions are seen not just in the UK but abroad (for example the Industrial Revolution was born in Ironbridge/Blists Hill in Shropshire and not Manchester).

With regard to Birmingham, I think its low profile comes from it being a city that is borne of an unglamorous past - industry and manufacture etc, although historic figures such as James Watt and Matthew Boulton and the Cadbury family lived here. Also for decades Birmingham has been ashamed of its appearance with the concrete that was inflicted in the 1960's and 70's and the roads and motorways running through it. Birmingham seemed to function as a collection of towns and villages rather than an integrated city. I think it is a case of the Ugly Duckling turning into a Beautiful Swan now though :)

What do people think of German cities' profiles? For me the big 3 are Munchen(Munich), Frankfurt and Berlin. I have only visited Frankfurt and thought it a very beautiful (and large!) city. It is odd how Bonn doesn't have such a high profile yet was the seat of government.[/QUOT

i was one time in birmingham, and apart from the new street station i like the city :-)

i wonder that a lot of foreign people think that frankfurt is one of the "big" and most necessary cities in germany. ok. it is our financial centre, but that is all. the city is not large, the city is "high" ;-) a lot of highrisers, thats all IMO.

The most wellknown and most important citites are berlin, hamburg, munich and cologne.

bonn, our former "capital-village" :-) a boring little city :runaway:

Biosonic: I think Hamburg is the second biggest German city. As far as I know Frankfurt has the biggest and best skyscrapers, or used to.

Liverpool is a more famous city in world terms - and the fact that so many ships have "Liverpool" on the stern.
Not any more Biosonic, now more than half the worlds shipping are registered in either Monrovia and Panama with the vast majority of cruise liners being registered in Nassau. However Liverpool does enjoy world wide recognition partly because of it's port and the historic links with the wider world. It was mostly Liverpool seaman who took soccer around the world and more than a few foreign teams carry the name of both Liverpool clubs. But without a doubt, Liverpool's post war recognition comes from it's association with The Beatles, which makes it all the more strange when you consider how under-exploited, by the Liverpool City Council, this connection is. Liverpool also enjoys the "emigrant geneology link" in North America and the antipodes. Most people, in the above mentioned locations, investigating their roots will almost certainly find a mention of Liverpool in their ancestors passed. Remember, it wasn't until the late sixties that the balance shifted from sea transport to aircraft for emigrants leaving Britain and Europe.

Well I'm sorry if my previous posts were a little harshly worded but I was slightly annoyed with Blabbersnake calling people "TWAT" etc.

Yes I forgot that Liverpool is well known globaly for football and should have included that, however, to suggest that Mancunians are somehow jealous of Liverpool because of the Beatles connection is rediculous to say the least.

My American partner and I went for a day trip there about a year ago, he was well keen, I wasn't, but I bit my lip and said "Cool. we can go if you want" We were only there a couple of hours and were struggling to find a decent place to eat, we needed to find a US/UK electric plug current converter thingy, Dixons didnt sell them so we decided it would be worth trying one of the big hotels as thats the sort of thing they often sell at receiptions in hotels, Could we find a decent hotel in Liverpool? NO! We walked around for ages, the place was half empty apart from Mathew St, My partner said we might as well go back to Manchester, he was VERY disappointed,"It's definitely only a day trip sort of place" he said, and i'm inclined to agree. I don't hate Liverpool or its people, what I don't like is the enormous chip some scousers seem to have on their shoulders regarding anything Mancunian, and how they moaned all through the 80's and early 90's that the whole world was somehow conspiring to keep them down, nonsense, and they still moaning and looking for sympathy now if anyone dares to suggest they need to STOP MOANING( Boris etc etc) and get on with it LIKE THE REST OF US DO!!!!

Biosonic: I think Hamburg is the second biggest German city. As far as I know Frankfurt has the biggest and best skyscrapers, or used to.

My point exactly farsight - it is odd how things are perceived :)

I feel for Hamburg ;)

Not any more Biosonic, now more than half the worlds shipping are registered in either Monrovia and Panama with the vast majority of cruise liners being registered in Nassau...

I know more ships are registered abroad Sloyne - but historically they have helped Liverpool achieve fame. Similarly with Southampton. Good point about emigrants too!

My American partner and I went for a day trip there about a year ago, he was well keen, I wasn't, but I bit my lip and said "Cool. we can go if you want" We were only there a couple of hours and were struggling to find a decent place to eat, we needed to find a US/UK electric plug current converter thingy, Dixons didnt sell them so we decided it would be worth trying one of the big hotels as thats the sort of thing they often sell at receiptions in hotels, Could we find a decent hotel in Liverpool? NO! We walked around for ages, the place was half empty apart from Mathew St, My partner said we might as well go back to Manchester, he was VERY disappointed,"It's definitely only a day trip sort of place" he said, and i'm inclined to agree. I don't hate Liverpool or its people, what I don't like is the enormous chip some scousers seem to have on their shoulders regarding anything Mancunian, and how they moaned all through the 80's and early 90's that the whole world was somehow conspiring to keep them down, nonsense, and they still moaning and looking for sympathy now if anyone dares to suggest they need to STOP MOANING( Boris etc etc) and get on with it LIKE THE REST OF US DO!!!!

Funny, you seem to be one of the worst moaners I've come across in a long while! Yet you blame people in the next city (-perhaps you have access to some survey that i've never heard of) of behaving the way you do. Typical arse hole aren't you!

to suggest that Mancunians are somehow jealous of Liverpool because of the Beatles connection is rediculous to say the least.
Sorry, I was just thinking that whenever The Beatles are mentioned on North American TV (and I suspect in other parts of the world) they carry the name of Liverpool with them i.e. "The four mop tops from Liverpool that shook the world" etc. It is free advertising of the best kind. Perhaps your right, Manchester doesn't need this kind of advertising. Lucky them.

My American partner and I went for a day trip there about a year ago, he was well keen, I wasn't, but I bit my lip and said "Cool. we can go if you want" We were only there a couple of hours and were struggling to find a decent place to eat, we needed to find a US/UK electric plug current converter thingy, Dixons didnt sell them so we decided it would be worth trying one of the big hotels as thats the sort of thing they often sell at receiptions in hotels, Could we find a decent hotel in Liverpool? NO! We walked around for ages, the place was half empty apart from Mathew St, My partner said we might as well go back to Manchester, he was VERY disappointed,"It's definitely only a day trip sort of place" he said, and i'm inclined to agree. I don't hate Liverpool or its people, what I don't like is the enormous chip some scousers seem to have on their shoulders regarding anything Mancunian, and how they moaned all through the 80's and early 90's that the whole world was somehow conspiring to keep them down, nonsense, and they still moaning and looking for sympathy now if anyone dares to suggest they need to STOP MOANING( Boris etc etc) and get on with it LIKE THE REST OF US DO!!!!
What can I say, it would seem from the above that Manchester is the epicurian centre of the universe and i'm sure with all the above faults you found with Liverpool, Manchester will certainly be the beneficiary of all, would be, Liverpool bound tourist. I hope you can cope with the influx. :)

so. back to topic :-)

i love manchester very very much, but do you know what i really miss in manchester??? TREES, a park in the city centre.

i think that picadilly gardens was some years ago a little park. but now?? :-( the northern part of picadilly gardens is ok with the beautiful old buildings, but behind the berliner wall it really looks like "alexander place" in east berlin... i dont mean the city tower, i mean the picadilly jarvis hotel.. oh god, the ugliest building in manchester. really a disgrace.

What can I say, it would seem from the above that Manchester is the epicurian centre of the universe

Most UK restaurant guides say that Manchester has the best variety of restaurants outside of London (not neccesarily the top restaurants though, there are probably better places to go if you want Michelin starred haute cuisine).

so. back to topic :-)

i love manchester very very much, but do you know what i really miss in manchester??? TREES, a park in the city centre.

i think that picadilly gardens was some years ago a little park. but now?? :-( the northern part of picadilly gardens is ok with the beautiful old buildings, but behind the berliner wall it really looks like "alexander place" in east berlin... i dont mean the city tower, i mean the picadilly jarvis hotel.. oh god, the ugliest building in manchester. really a disgrace.

A good park is needed in Central Manchester, Piccadilly Gardens was never a good park imo. Fortunately the Piccadilly Hotel/Plaza is getting a reclad so it shouldn't look quite so ugly in a couple of years time

i love manchester very very much, but do you know what i really miss in manchester??? TREES, a park in the city centre.
A park I can understand. I think the reason we don't have a big city centre park is because we have Heaton Park, the largest urban park in Europe, not too far away. Trees, though, has me stumped. We already have quite a lot, 20,000 are currently in the process of being planted around the city core, with a total of 25 million being planted by 2015...

I agree with olli, we need a city centre park. Heaton park is 3 miles out! The perfect spot for a part would be at ponoma. We could have marinas, and promenades. :)

I agree with olli, we need a city centre park. Heaton park is 3 miles out! The perfect spot for a part would be at ponoma. We could have marinas, and promenades. :)
Thats actually an excellent idea KitR... I love it!

i dont mean the city tower, i mean the picadilly jarvis hotel.. oh god, the ugliest building in manchester. really a disgrace.

I agree. The Piccadilly Hotel needs dropping. Horrible building, degrades the whole area.

A park I can understand. I think the reason we don't have a big city centre park is because we have Heaton Park, the largest urban park in Europe, not too far away. Trees, though, has me stumped. We already have quite a lot, 20,000 are currently in the process of being planted around the city core, with a total of 25 million being planted by 2015...
thats a whole lot of trees, also I think the reason we don't have a large central park is because when Manchester was busy making money during the industrial revolution parks were the last thing on their minds, it was literally a scramble to grow and prosper, parks unfortunatley were second in mind if that..

I think I love you Jongy lol

Aaahhh I know you do Roly. It's understandable. Everyone should start thinking about buying new hats I think :lovethem:

ignore

Funny, you seem to be one of the worst moaners I've come across in a long while!!

What was I moaning about? Liverpool having no decent place to eat? Thats not moaning its an observation.




Yet you blame people in the next city (-perhaps you have access to some survey that i've never heard of) of behaving the way you do.![/

What am I supposed to blaming Liverpool for exactly?

Surely you mean "ACCUSING Liverpool of" tut tut


Typical arse hole aren't you![/

Im just me, with my own opinions, get over it!

Aaahhh I know you do Roly. It's understandable. Everyone should start thinking about buying new hats I think :lovethem:

hehe..We could invite Cilla but she's a scouser :runaway:

Because on that point I agreed with him. In my subjective opinion Manchester has a long way to go before being the world city that people in this forum always claim it to be. But that is a matter of opinion. I never said anything about disliking Manchester, or people from there- nor was I insulting in the way I put my views across.

I'm not having a go at you Blabbersmoke, I was just a bit surprised at your reply to an obvious troll.

RB, you're no arsehole. Love your Passion for Manchester. Enjoy your posts. :master:

I agree with olli, we need a city centre park. Heaton park is 3 miles out! The perfect spot for a part would be at ponoma. We could have marinas, and promenades. :)

3 miles out?

Not from here it isn't. :)

I like the way you assume he's a scouser- you vitriolic twat! Believe it or not, people in Manchester hate scousers far more than vice versa, believe me. I have several Mancunion friends who would testify to that- you are an insecure lot on this forum and you just make a show of yourselves. It's a shame there aren't more people like Dgnr8 around here.


Blabber's dont tar everyone with the same brush matey, ive have a few "scouser" friends and i dont hate them.
This Liverpool ,Manchester hate malarky is pathetic , both of our cities are doing fantastic , so stop bitching . :rant:

Personally, i don't hate scousers, i quite like them. The liverpool forumers (most of) are top guys. :cheers:

RB, you're no arsehole. Love your Passion for Manchester. Enjoy your posts.

Haven't got time to read much of what's been going on here, on my way out,
but agreed Pookey.

Why thank you.

For the record, not all (if many at all) Mancs go for this ridiculous Scouse-Manc hatred thing. I even (a very long time ago) fell in love with a lass from Crosby once (not L'pool I know, but she talked like a proper Scouser) ..... ah memories!

Have a good day sir.
FERFUXAKE..........you fucking brown-nosing traitor ! :down: :bash:

i'm actually from guernsey, c.i. but grew up in san francisco and l.a.!!! did live in liverpool for 9 months if that makes me some sort of a scouser???? i just thimk this my city is bigger than ur city is very very childish!!!! n.b. all lower case this time round - wouldn't want to upset a knight of the realm!!!!
I'm sorry logancock but you went downhill muy rapido as soon as you said "LIVERPOOL WIPES THE FLOOR WITH MANCHESTER".
You're a scouser. I don't believe you're from anywhere else. Nothing personal like......

I like the way you assume he's a scouser- you vitriolic twat! Believe it or not, people in Manchester hate scousers far more than vice versa, believe me. I have several Mancunion friends who would testify to that- you are an insecure lot on this forum and you just make a show of yourselves. It's a shame there aren't more people like Dgnr8 around here.
Blabber, lets get a few things straight right off the bat. I have loads of very good friends who originated from the pool. I don't hate scousers or anyone else who doesn't come from my neck of the woods. I agree with you that it can get silly with all the Manc/scouse hate-mongering and unfortunately it's from both sides.

What I do hate however, is when certain 'scousers' claim that Lpl is the 'greatest place on earth' then try to ram it down our throats, usually knocking Mcr in the meantime. I don't know of one Manc on here that disses Lpl or lowers themselves to personal insults like "vitriolic twat".
If you read anything you disagree with just say why and let the person respond before you unload all the insults.

For the record, a lot of my scouse mates also hate the type of scousers I was talking about. If you're honest you'll know the ones I'm referring to. You know the ones who left Liverpool yonks ago and would never live there again but constantly bleat on about the place, usually with a ridiculously awkward 'exaggerated' accent totally oblivious to how fucking stupid they sound, while the 'real' scousers are cringing with embarrassment.

You don't have to agree with this Blabber, and if you don't like what I've said, then do us all a favour and just ignore it.

FERFUXAKE..........you fucking brown-nosing traitor !
Rich, coming from a back stabbing con artist. :)

Rich, coming from a back stabbing con artist. :)
Back-stabbing con-artist? Now unless you are privy to some mis-information Sloyne, can you at least do me the courtesy of explaining your remark?
(via email of course)
If the smilie :) is an indicative that you were merely 'joking', then I'm puzzled as to choice of humorous 'insult'.

I don't hate scousers or anyone else who doesn't come from my neck of the woods.
Well not to their face.

What I do hate however, is when certain 'scousers' claim that Lpl is the 'greatest place on earth' then try to ram it down our throats, usually knocking Mcr in the meantime.
Unlike "curley turd". Maybe he's from Oldham, Wigan, Blackburn or some other none Manchester locale but he does come up with a lot of pro-Manchester bullshit. As to the best city in the world, surely it's a matter of opinion. For me it is New York followed very closely by Hong Kong and rapidly catching them is Shanghai. By the way, the latter city has a waterfront facing the Po, along the Bund, that is the mirror image of Liverpool's Pier Head. The only British city I would include in my top ten is London. But that's just my opinion.

For the record, a lot of my scouse mates also hate the type of scousers I was talking about. If you're honest you'll know the ones I'm referring to. You know the ones who left Liverpool yonks ago and would never live there again but constantly bleat on about the place, usually with a ridiculously awkward 'exaggerated' accent totally oblivious to how fucking stupid they sound, while the 'real' scousers are cringing with embarrassment.
And you, Sir Piles Shitting, would know an "exagerated" accent. I mean being the world travelling jet setter that you are. I doubt you have "mates", let alone Scouse ones. :)

Back-stabbing con-artist? Now unless you are privy to some mis-information Sloyne, can you at least do me the courtesy of explaining your remark?
You pretended to befriend me and side with me (privately) in a discourse I had with curly turd, you then used that confidence to attack me in open forum. I didn't find this very amusing and I still think you are a back stabber. No joke.

If the conversation doesn't quickly move back to something worthwhile this thread is closed.

How about the fact that Manchester/The North hasn't got an internationally recognised publication that you can buy abroad whilst on business/holiday?

Cities whose papers can be bought in Manchester include papers like Frankfurt (FAZ) Zurich (Zuercher Zeitung), Munich (Sueddeutsche Zeitung). i only know/read the german ones.

You pretended to befriend me and side with me (privately) in a discourse I had with curly turd, you then used that confidence to attack me in open forum. I didn't find this very amusing and I still think you are a back stabber. No joke.
Phew! Thank God it was just something I've done/said on this totally inconsequental forum and not of the real world.

I honestly don't recall ever 'stabbing you in the back' Sloyne, again, maybe you could enlighten me (if you want to that is). No problem if you'd rather keep it to yourself and seethe, but if you want to get it off your chest I'm just an email away squire.

'Sir Piles Shitting' and 'Curly Turd' are your obvious attempts at the so-called 'scouse humour'......hilarious.....(cringe).

Never had any probs with Mancs, apart from our little footy tiffs in the 70s/80s.
A few of us used to pop over to the Wigan Casino on the occasional weekend. Liverpool was more heavy funk, but the mancs loved their Northern Soul which meant we were outnumbered 10:1. No probs. Lovely guys.

Have to go. My nurse has just informed me that my incontinence pad needs changing.

'Sir Piles Shitting' and 'Curly Turd' are your obvious attempts at the so-called 'scouse humour'......hilarious.....(cringe).
You know what they say about getting into a pissing match with a skunk. :)
(Canadian humour)

You know what they say about getting into a pissing match with a skunk. :)
(Canadian humour)

And this comes from the man whos advises Canadian tourists not to visit Manchester because theres nothing to see or do!

Canadian humour?

How about the fact that Manchester/The North hasn't got an internationally recognised publication that you can buy abroad whilst on business/holiday?

Cities whose papers can be bought in Manchester include papers like Frankfurt (FAZ) Zurich (Zuercher Zeitung), Munich (Sueddeutsche Zeitung). i only know/read the german ones.

The Guardian Europe's a Manchester publication (and London). Bearing in mind that there's no big regional UK newspaper except this, this is probably why.

If this country wasn't the over-centralised madhouse that it is, then the Guardian would still be the Manchester Guardian. It's a fuckin tragedy really....

^^ Quite so, Jongy. I read recently a mention in the London press of the Guardian's brave decision to move to London in the 60s.

Brave??? Supinely spineless in the face of the London establishment more like.

A bit like when Richard and Judy moved from the Albert Dock to London, but more important (well, a great deal more important).

Well I'm sorry if my previous posts were a little harshly worded
And totally unfactual, among other things. I can recommend some great reading material that will bring you up to pace on the African slave trade and the role of British cities, including Manchester, in that trade. I'm sure you can also find plenty of reference works in your local library. That's always assuming you want to learn the truth about this nefarious trade and the role played by your country in that trade.

And this comes from the man whos advises Canadian tourists not to visit Manchester!
And who also makes a great living out of it. :wink2:

Cities whose papers can be bought in Manchester include papers like Frankfurt (FAZ) Zurich (Zuercher Zeitung), Munich (Sueddeutsche Zeitung). i only know/read the german ones.
And the Liverpool Daily Post . But what I do find strange is, on my last visit to the UK (May 2005), I was unable to spend Euros in the concessions at MAN. I had to change them into local currency (pounds) and then spend them. I have had no trouble spending them in London and (dare I say it) Liverpool. I will accept, if corrected, that Euros can be spent in downtown Manchester but why, in heavens sake, not at the airport?

That's always assuming you want to learn the truth about this nefarious trade and the role played by your country in that trade.

You really don't care who you offend, do you?

I think when you say 'your country', you also mean Canada, by default.

Come on caw, close this garbage mate!

bit like when Richard and Judy moved from the Albert Dock to London, but more important (well, a great deal more important).

This Morning was a huge slap in the face for Liverpool, especially.

I think that the Grauniad can still be considered a Manchester daily. It's just unfortunate that editorially, it's SO NOT!

You really don't care who you offend, do you?
What is offensive about saying that Britain played a role in the African slave trade? Are you denying it? And apart from London, Bristol and Liverpool ship owners profiting from the trade, who do you think picked the cotton for Manchester mills and what do you think Britains manufactured goods were traded for?

I think when you say 'your country', you also mean Canada, by default.
Canada was a haven for slaves escaping bondage in the US and, not unlike Britain, slaves were not a great part of Canada's history. We have enough of our own skeletons without taking yours (Britains) onboard. Further, being a colony of Britain left us (Canada) with no manouverability whatsoever. In effect we were also in bondage with as much independence as present day Iraq.

Yeah, I scoot up and down the UK a lot, and the difference between the northern and southern editions of the Guardian aren't very significant, some news, and sport coverage (I think) being different. The editorial, comment and analysis pages are all pretty much identical. It's a London newspaper that still maintains a Manchester office, and no more, I'm afraid, imo.

Does anyone apart from me remember the short-lived "Northwestern" newspaper of the mid or late eighties? The idea was to restart a north of England-based quality, broadsheet newspaper. It's politics was centrist/liberal (like the old Manchester Guardian) and I remember reading the editorial on its first edition (my dad had bought it) stating that one of the things that it wanted to do was to bring manchester and Liverpool closer together and get over historical animosities between the two big cities, in the way that it would cover both cities in the region in which it is was based.

Still, it lasted into its second week before folding.

the difference between the northern and southern editions of the Guardian aren't very significant.
I find the Guardian the least partisan of all the British daily's and it's reporting of current events far more factual than any other British paper. I wish we had something like it on this side of the ocean. I also enjoy reading the Independant but when given the choice I will pick the Guardian everytime.

The Guardian can be obtained at all major North American airports and I have seen it sold in most European airports.

The Guardian is a good newspaper, Sloyne, although like other newspapers it has gone downmarket somewhat over the last few years. I think that the new design and adoption of a mid-sized format has been accompanied by a furrther decline in its quality.

still, I buy it most days.

That the Guardian still maintains a north of England office, in Manchester, is another of its plus points. Its coverage of the north of England (and Manchester in particular) seems to benefit from this.

What is offensive about saying that Britain played a role in the African slave trade? Are you denying it? And apart from London, Bristol and Liverpool ship owners profiting from the trade, who do you think picked the cotton for Manchester mills and what do you think Britains manufactured goods were traded for?

Of course I'm not denying that, but what I find uncomfortable is that we all know the history of slavery and how (arguably) Britain's wealth and industrialisation when hand-in-hand with its 'colonial ties'. Making reference to this is not entirely dissimilar to me going onto a German skyscraper and development forum and talking about the National Socialist Party. Why would I want to do that?


Canada was a haven for slaves escaping bondage in the US and, not unlike Britain, slaves were not a great part of Canada's history. We have enough of our own skeletons without taking yours (Britains) onboard. Further, being a colony of Britain left us (Canada) with no manouverability whatsoever. In effect we were also in bondage with as much independence as present day Iraq.

Oh come on, stating that Canada was ever in bondage to the UK is a ridiculous statement for a start. If you're arguing that Canada should have achieved independence before 1931, then maybe it should, but this isn't the place for it.

Agree to disagree? :cheers:

Yeah, I scoot up and down the UK a lot, and the difference between the northern and southern editions of the Guardian aren't very significant, some news, and sport coverage (I think) being different. The editorial, comment and analysis pages are all pretty much identical. It's a London newspaper that still maintains a Manchester office, and no more, I'm afraid, imo.

Does anyone apart from me remember the short-lived "Northwestern" newspaper of the mid or late eighties? The idea was to restart a north of England-based quality, broadsheet newspaper. It's politics was centrist/liberal (like the old Manchester Guardian) and I remember reading the editorial on its first edition (my dad had bought it) stating that one of the things that it wanted to do was to bring manchester and Liverpool closer together and get over historical animosities between the two big cities, in the way that it would cover both cities in the region in which it is was based.

Still, it lasted into its second week before folding.

The Guardian still claims to be published in Manchester; it's supposed to have a Manchester editor. As you probably know, many of the others are now just printed here instead. When they stopped being published in Manchester, not to put too fine a point on it, I was about 13 and really pissed off and upset.....lol

The paper you're talking about was the North West Times. It failed because the intention was that people would buy it initially in addition to their morning Times , Telegraph etc.

I've still got about 4 copies of this, including the first edition.... somewhere, think they're in the loft!

Of course I'm not denying that, but what I find uncomfortable is that we all know the history of slavery and how (arguably) Britain's wealth and industrialisation when hand-in-hand with its 'colonial ties'. Making reference to this is not entirely dissimilar to me going onto a German skyscraper and development forum and talking about the National Socialist Party. Why would I want to do that?
But, and I don't know whether or not your being totally disingenious or not, I was replying to a reference by "rolybling" (#66) in which he, incorrectly stated that, "Liverpool was the worlds biggest slave port" , among other things. I will accept your word that you never read his submission hence the umbridge you took with my reply.

The Guardian still claims to be published in Manchester; it's supposed to have a Manchester editor. As you probably know, many of the others are now just printed here instead. When they stopped being published in Manchester, not to put too fine a point on it, I was about 13 and really pissed off and upset.....lol

The paper you're talking about was the North West Times. It failed because the intention was that people would buy it initially in addition to their morning Times , Telegraph etc.

I've still got about 4 copies of this, including the first edition.... somewhere, think they're in the loft!

Thanks for that Jongy. So, "North West Times" it was. Ah, pity.

But, and I don't know whether or not your being totally disingenious or not, I was replying to a reference by "rolybling" (#66) in which he, incorrectly stated that, "Liverpool was the worlds biggest slave port" , among other things. I will accept your word that you never read his submission hence the umbridge you took with my reply.

You'll accept my word? Is that right?

I'm certainly not taking umbridge, and would've much preferred to disagree with you in a civilised manner. To be honest I find you completely fucking unpleasant and offensive, you've got the diplomacy and tact of a fucking brick and you're also extremely arrogant.

The Guardian is a good newspaper, Sloyne, although like other newspapers it has gone downmarket somewhat over the last few years.
That being the case and using the Guardian as a yardstick, I would say that the Times and Telegraph have gone down the toilet in the same time period. I would liken them (Times & Telegraph) to gutter tabloids in broadsheet format.

I'd disagree with you about the Telegraph. My politics concide much more with the Guardian's that the Torygraph's, but I'd maintain that the Telegraph has stayed a little more up market than the Guardian (very comprehensive news coverage, serious arts review, etcs). They've all gone downmarket but I think the Telegraph (maybe because of its geriatric readership) resisted this process more than most.

Murdoch's Times is an insult to the tradition of Britain's former newspaper of record, of course. I'd not wrap chips with it.

Anyway Sloyne, this is off-topic and this thread should be left to those wishing to discuss Manchester's representation in Europe.

Oh for fucks sake SLOYNE, why is it that the only part of my input you can try and pull apart is this bit about Liverpool being the biggest slave port? OK It may not have been the biggest slave port but a slave port it was, and it WAS big (was).

Almost to a man, every single Manc forumer has stated QUITE CLEARLY they DO NOT hate Liverpool or it's people who it has to be said are amongst the friendliest, kindest people in the country, nobody is disputing that!!

What we don't like or appreciate is the constant whinging and whining from certain scousers who seem to think the world owes them something IT DOESN'T.
Why is it we don't here people from say...Southampton or Newcastle or Birmingham or Manchester bleating and whining about how their city was treated during the dark days of the 80's Thatcher Govt? or any other city for that matter?????? come on WHY??? What is it about Liverpool that seems to set them apart in the "OH we're so hard done by" stakes??

SO WHAT if it wasn't the biggest slave port, SO WHAT!!!

Everything else I've stated is correct, whether you like it or not, disagree or not THIS WHOLE COUNTRY is sick and tired of Liverpools inferiority complex and their assumption the world owes them something IT DOESN'T

And you like it so much you live in Canada ....I rest my case

Im really sorry guys for going down this path regarding Liverpool but Sloyne and Blabbermouth really got my blood boiling with thier rufusal to see what the rest of the UK can see. I'm genuinely sorry for stooping to this level.

You'll accept my word? Is that right?

I'm certainly not taking umbridge, and would've much preferred to disagree with you in a civilised manner. To be honest I find you completely fucking unpleasant and offensive, you've got the diplomacy and tact of a fucking brick and you're also extremely arrogant.
So my instincts were right, you were just looking for something to pick a fight over. Tact and diplomacy are what you use with equals, or superiors, I judge you neither. Who was it who said, "Arrogance with reason, is fully justifiable" ? :D

You'll accept my word? Is that right?

I'm certainly not taking umbridge, and would've much preferred to disagree with you in a civilised manner. To be honest I find you completely fucking unpleasant and offensive, you've got the diplomacy and tact of a fucking brick and you're also extremely arrogant.
Couldn't have put it any better meself.... :applause:

Im really sorry guys for going down this path regarding Liverpool but Sloyne and Blabbermouth really got my blood boiling with thier rufusal to see what the rest of the UK can see.
No rolybin, I replied to your incorrect statement that "Liverpool was the worlds biggest slave port". I corrected you, you chose to reply, as all yobs do, with foul laguage. I then concluded that you were not inclined to be educated but chose to continue with your hatred of all things Liverpool. I did not dispute any of your, what I consider racist, opinions of Liverpool and it's inhabitants. They're your opinions and I am not interesterd in them, I am however interested in your jaundiced, unknowledgable, erronious statements on historical fact and I will correct you whenever necessary.

I can, if I may, make an observation in the form of a question; If you hate Liverpudlians so much, and they are your countrymen, born and bred, just what chance do foreign imigrants have with your ilk?

Im really sorry guys for going down this path regarding Liverpool but Sloyne and Blabbermouth really got my blood boiling with thier rufusal to see what the rest of the UK can see. I'm genuinely sorry for stooping to this level.

To the Manchester forumers, don't worry, I'd hope that everyone from the Liverpool forum would not think that this chap's idiocy is in anyway representative of Manchester.

Oh for fucks sake SLOYNE, why is it that the only part of my input you can try and pull apart is this bit about Liverpool being the biggest slave port? OK It may not have been the biggest slave port but a slave port it was, and it WAS big (was).

Almost to a man, every single Manc forumer has stated QUITE CLEARLY they DO NOT hate Liverpool or it's people who it has to be said are amongst the friendliest, kindest people in the country, nobody is disputing that!!

What we don't like or appreciate is the constant whinging and whining from certain scousers who seem to think the world owes them something IT DOESN'T.
Why is it we don't here people from say...Southampton or Newcastle or Birmingham or Manchester bleating and whining about how their city was treated during the dark days of the 80's Thatcher Govt? or any other city for that matter?????? come on WHY??? What is it about Liverpool that seems to set them apart in the "OH we're so hard done by" stakes??

SO WHAT if it wasn't the biggest slave port, SO WHAT!!!

Everything else I've stated is correct, whether you like it or not, disagree or not THIS WHOLE COUNTRY is sick and tired of Liverpools inferiority complex and their assumption the world owes them something IT DOESN'T

And you like it so much you live in Canada ....I rest my case
I knew it couldn't just be me, there is a god after all..... ;) :applause:

Sloyne is being a pain in the arse as well though, I'll add.

DO NOT CALL ME A YOB, CHECK ALL MY POSTS..ALL OF THEM...SEE HOW MANY OF THEM I CURSE IN...HAVE A LOOK!!! PRAT!!

I knew it couldn't just be me, there is a god after all..... ;) :applause:

Platty, you're a turnip, Roly is a turnip, Sloyne is a turnip.

Most members of the the Liverpool and Manchester forums aren't.

Caw, a lock please.

No rolybin, I replied to your incorrect statement that "Liverpool was the worlds biggest slave port". I corrected you, you chose to reply, as all yobs do, with foul laguage. I then concluded that you were not inclined to be educated but chose to continue with your hatred of all things Liverpool. I did not dispute any of your, what I consider racist, opinions of Liverpool and it's inhabitants. They're your opinions and I am not interesterd in them, I am however interested in your jaundiced, unknowledgable, erronious statements on historical fact and I will correct you whenever necessary.

I can, if I may, make an observation in the form of a question; If you hate Liverpudlians so much, and they are your countrymen, born and bred, just what chance do foreign imigrants have with your ilk?


AT WHAT POINT ANYWHERE DO I SAY I HATE LIVERPUDLIANS?? I STATE YET AGAIN QUITE CLEARLY THAT I DO IN FACT NOT...YOUR'E A PRICK MATE


READ MY POST AGAIN MORON!!

So my instincts were right, you were just looking for something to pick a fight over. Tact and diplomacy are what you use with equals, or superiors, I judge you neither. Who was it who said, "Arrogance with reason, is fully justifiable" ? :D
Probably some arrogant one-eyed ****?

Platty, you're a twat, Roly is a twat, Sloyne is a twat.

Most members of the the Liverpool and Manchester forums aren't.

Caw, a lock please.

and who may I ask are you?? Ive never seen you before on here yet your asking Caw to lock the thread because you don't agree with the views and opinions of others, if you don't like it look elsewhere

And you like it so much you live in Canada ....I rest my case
Only between May and November, the other six months I live in Clearwater, Florida. I used to live in Ft. Lauderdale, FL. in the winter months but sold and moved to Clearwater last year. Toronto's climate in the winter is worse than that of Manchester. By the way, my favourite city is New York, my favourite Canadian city is Montreal, my favourite European city is Barcelona. I don't live in any of those either.

The thread has become contaminated. For everyone's sanity please lock it CAW.

Yeah lock it Caw before I lose my rag with these idiots

Only between May and November, the other six months I live in Clearwater, Florida. I used to live in Ft. Lauderdale, FL. in the winter months but sold and moved to Clearwater last year. Toronto's climate in the winter is worse than that of Manchester. By the way, my favourite city is New York, my favourite Canadian city is Montreal, my favourite European city is Barcelona. I don't live in any of those either.
who gives a ****

who gives a ****
But rottenthing, wasn't it you who mentioned my abode? And wasn't it you that was wrong again, well partly wrong. So I corrected you, yet again, by telling you I also live in the USA. :)

PS: I thought it was only females what wore a "rag". Are you trying to tell us something? :rofl:

Your about as funny as lung cancer mate, who cares if you jet set all over the place? Your Location shows as Toronto...a travel agent are you? and your trying to suggest something about my masculinity...you have NO argument, I'm very much a MALE.

I'm very much a MALE.
But of what species? :)

err...what can one possibly say? Travel Agents aren't exactly known for being the most masculine of blokes are they...know what I'm sayin? I think they fall somewhere between Trolly Dolly's and Foo Foo Lamar, how can you question my masculinity? bet you've got a lovely tan

bet you've got a lovely tan
All over :cool:

well that seals it then..your'e family

Travel Agents aren't exactly known for being the most masculine of blokes are they...know what I'm sayin? I think they fall somewhere between Trolly Dolly's and Foo Foo Lamar, how can you question my masculinity?
I have a WIFE, you have a "partner". What's with that?

lol this is way off topic...well I ain't got a wife coz I'm gay, I thought when I mentioned my partner as "HE" that would give you enough of a clue...come on keep up

lol this is way off topic...well I ain't got a wife coz I'm gay, I thought when I mentioned my partner as "HE" that would give you enough of a clue...come on keep up
Oops! sorry, must have been asleep. Have you given any thought to a vacation in Canada and getting married here?

No

Anyway I just want to say I'm really not happy about you suggesting I'm racist and xenophobic because I don't like whinging scousers. My partner is Black and American, a different race from myself and from a different country, I don't think all scousers are like that just some, and I was careful to say SOME in my post, I think Liverpool is a decent city and the people in general are fantastic, I've got nothing against anybody from anywhere, if I came across that way then I apologise.. but it wasn't intended that way at all. I don't have time for hatred in any way shape or form and to suggest to me that I hate people from Liverpool is a real insult, I know the people of Liverpool don't hate Mancunians either. They are our closest neighbours city wise and if it came down to it and they were on the receiving end of some terrorist attack like we were in 96 then I would be very sad indeed because on the whole I think they are great people and the salt of the earth. Please don't call me racist again

B4 this thread gets closed, here's my tuppenceworth.
Liverpool and Manchester have the most cocky arrogant bunch of bastardos in the UK......with good reason. The NW is where it's happening Baby! We have more in common than differences, although I'm sure Earlyskirt will prove me wrong :) :cheers:

B4 this thread gets closed, here's my tuppenceworth.
Liverpool and Manchester have the most cocky arrogant bunch of bastardos in the UK......with good reason. The NW is where it's happening Baby! We have more in common than differences, although I'm sure Earlyskirt will prove me wrong :) :cheers:
Right on, wacker ;) :applause:

B4 this thread gets closed, here's my tuppenceworth.
Liverpool and Manchester have the most cocky arrogant bunch of bastardos in the UK......with good reason. The NW is where it's happening Baby! We have more in common than differences, although I'm sure Earlyskirt will prove me wrong :) :cheers:

Well said Dave. :cheers:

booooooooooooooooooo!!!!

Argh Crap! Everyone's friends again.

A trolling opportunity wasted! :(

Its only a matter of time before they begin fighting again!
http://www.planearium2.de/pics/pics-606-6.jpg