With Delphi filing for bankruptcy and possibly going out of business, it will be another blow to the Buffalo area, and an even worse one for Lockport. How will job loss affect the area, and should the workers accept a pay cut or should they fight with the union?

My opinion is that they should take the $10 per hour. Many of them say $10 is not enough for the work they do, and that they could lose their homes if they take that. Then they should just move into a cheaper house. After all, it is a blue collar job, and they have been getting above average pay for a job like that.

Also, think about it. Delphi can't afford to pay them as much as they do. If the union strikes, it will probably result in Delphi leaving the area completley, and then they would lose their jobs.
Simply put, I would say it's either accept pay cut, or fight for nothing and lose your job.

I think the best idea is to take the cut, I mean...it's that or goodbye.

unions are greedy...why would a manufacturing laborer need 29.00 / hr? thats why china is so appealing now. :sleepy:

Just watch, in 10 years there will be no American auto industry any more. You'll have to buy foreign. They need to seriously get their acts in gear, and I think they're too politically connected in many areas to ever make a clean break.

If that's the case, who cares what happens to Buffalo. We'll actually gain ranking because we'll surpass Detroit.

Bethlehem threatened the same think in Lackawanna- reduce your pay or we're outta here. The union called their bluff and away they went! These workers are caught in a bind- how many could afford to take a 20 percent cut? 30 percent? 50 percent??? Few to none. So their options are limited.

It doesn't look good for the plant and the workers at GM and Ford have to be getting a little nervous also. The painful transition to a post-industrial economy is going to continue locally. And when these jobs go, it will be another round of folks leaving the area as in the 1980's. It looks like the population isn't going to stabilize anytime soon. But keep your fingers crossed the unions and company meet half-way.

somehow I think it will be business as usual for the unions...it's either go from $27/hr to $10/hr and keep the jobs here, or get $0/hr and be unemployed...I get the feeling the unions are going to take $0/hr and unemployment. History has proved that.

Either way there will be profound impacts on the region...if they choose unemployment, I can see Lockport's population being cut in half and property values plummeting, along with bankruptcies.

Going from $27hr to $10 hr is absolutely ludicrous.

Do any of you actually own a home of your own and have to support children?

Hell, I live with my finances in EXTREMELY good order, with the bills quite literally as low as they can possibly be (I am a seriously cheap SOB), and there's no way in hell that I could live off of $10hr. A salary in the range of $15-18hr would be much, much more reasonable.

If Delphi can't survive and still pay its workers a living wage, then Delphi should go under, and the investors and management should lose every penny. Something nobody bothers to question, is the millions a year being paid to the executive fat cats that are nowhere near deserving of it.

^ Apparently in the new GM/UAW contract, they made sure the fat cats didn't lose anything. Think of it - you have to feel bad when these guys can't live the life of luxury that should be theirs.

:bash:

In theory I'd say to the workers: take the cut and be grateful for a job. But it's tough to ask them to sacrifice when the executives have already lined their pockets and covered their parachutes in gold.

How come nobody asked them to take the loss?

The Delphi bankruptcy goes far beyond one lone plant in Lockport. This is going hit Michigan like a bombshell, where they're HQ'd and have multiple factories. This is just another chapter in the phasing out of old school, high paying union labor in the US which should come as no suprise to anyone in todays global economy.

These guys who would be suffering a huge pay cut are the ones who have worked at that factory (and who've been overpaind IMO) for around 30 years. That means they're mostly in their mid 50s. I would think that most people at that age would have other sources of income, or perhaps some savings. $29/hr works out to over $60K per year. That's not even counting overtime pay. If people were making that kind of money in dumpy (and cheap) Lockport for several years and they didn't save anything, then the rich phat cats aren't the only ones to blame here. My salary is somewhere in that neighborhood, and I am considerably younger. Yet somehow I have managed to put something away for "just in case." And, yes, I do own my home and support one child. I just think responsibility should be placed on more than just the obvious places.

P.S.- I also think people are overestimating the impact Delphi's troubles will have on Buffalo. The factory is in Lockport (Niagara County) not even the same county as Buffalo. I would be a lot more concerned if I lived in the City of Niagara Falls or maybe North Tonawanda. I myslef have only been to Lockport once in my life, and I only know one person from there. It isn't very often that you meet someone from Lockport while going about your daily business in downtown Buffalo. I would guess that the people in Lockport don't even feel like Buffalonians, since my friends who live in Niagara Falls don't consider themselves to be from Buffalo. So I don't think it's precisely the same thing to Buffalo as losing Bethlehem Steel. Let's not be so dramatic.

...OK, this is the last I'll say on the topic before someone else posts something (LOL). But for anyone who thinks "the little people" are the only ones who will have to tighten their belts and change their spending habbits, here's a little something from Business First of Buffalo showing that the phat cats are making adjustments too:

Delphi CEO to work for a buck


Delphi Corp. CEO Robert "Steve" Miller will work for a salary of $1 per year and other executives of the bankrupt auto parts supplier will take pay cuts of 10 to 20 percent as well.

Miller said the reduction in executive compensation, which will take effect Jan. 1, 2006, was necessary as the company works toward emerging from Chapter 11 bankruptcy and as it negotiates compensation changes with its rank-and-file workforce, specifically those represented by the United Auto Workers.

"In the months ahead I'm going to have to be explaining to thousands of our dedicated workers why they are going to have to take significant reductions in wages and benefits in order for us to become globally competitive," Miller said in a conference call with reporters.

Officers who were at Delphi at the time when Miller joined the company have volunteered to waive 10 percent of their base pay, 20 percent in the case of Rodney O'Neal, president of the Troy, Mich.-based company.

Miller, who said he will retain a $3 million signing bonus he received when he joined Delphi, also said he will not receive a bonus, severance, pension plan, or any other entitlements whatsoever.

Delphi is the parent of Lockport-based Delphi Thermal and Interior, which employs 4,000 workers and is the largest manufacturing operation in the area.

^^ Good point about the effects on Buffalo. That's something that has crossed my mind as well. It certainly doesn't look good for the region as a whole, but I do think the effects could be somewhat overstated.

Even if the entire city of Lockport up and moved to Raleigh, that's still only chump change as for what we've lost, particularly in the last 20 years. This is bad, make no mistake, but there are far bigger fish to fry.

As for the CEO taking a pay cut. That's great symbolically, but I don't think it's going to provide much consolation to many people. Forgoing pay and pension is not going to hurt him. It's the average Joe who'll still be hurt, poor financial planning or not.

^I like how the article mentions that the CEO has already pocketed millions... So what's losing one year's pay going to do for his family's longterm viability? Jack shit, that's what.

However, some kudos must be given to the guy anyways, because the minute the company declared bankruptcy, he probably could have jumped ship and left the mess to someone else, and instead taken an executive job somewhere else, making a few hundred grand a year... or maybe he can't quit without giving back the signing bonus, and knows that his pension and stock options are worthless unless the company can come out of bankruptcy.

^^ That was the one thing I just read which may make the average Joe's plight a little more serious. Suppose he has saved and invested over his lifetime. But it's tied up in Delphi stock.

we need Galisano here now...ease this process for lockport and WNY...we need a business friendly governor, mayor (Buffalo) and (Rochester) to see the area hold steady, I'm sorry but NY Democrats are very dangerous people, and history proves this.

I'm being serious, we need some republicans to run WNY for a while, they are more business friendly, we needed them 30 years ago.

Just like how Kodak just made recent cuts in Rochester.... it will make it. It may be another blow, but Buffalo can handle it a lot more now than it would have a few years ago.

Buffcity...Republicans don't give a rat's ass about you or me (unless it's election year, then they make up some cute social wedge issues). All they care about are the folks funding their campaigns, and giving their relatives cake 'consulting' jobs. The first thing Reps would do if they could would be to totally outlaw unions and eliminate corporate taxes. All that will do is boost profits and further enrich people who are already rich. it won't help the average Joe one iota in the long run.

My opinion is both democrates and republicans are full of problems. Not to stray off topic, but I prefer to be part of an independant or lesser known party. This country will make a big turn around if we are able to get a president of a different party in office for once, heck even possibly a mayor, or county executive.

Buffcity...Republicans don't give a rat's ass about you or me (unless it's election year, then they make up some cute social wedge issues). All they care about are the folks funding their campaigns, and giving their relatives cake 'consulting' jobs. The first thing Reps would do if they could would be to totally outlaw unions and eliminate corporate taxes. All that will do is boost profits and further enrich people who are already rich. it won't help the average Joe one iota in the long run.

well if the democrats have been running NYS into the ground for years...who should I blame? look at business friendly republicans and what they are doing in states like Arizona, Texas, Colorado or Florida...growth. Pataki is on to something with this Empire Zone, but it's too limited. Guiliani cleaned up NYC, he was a Republican.

Just saying, the NYS Democrats need to step aside for a bit

The Reps aren't growing those states, the climate is.

I can't believe you volunteered Pataki's name in this debate. He's a Republican, and he's been our Governor for most of my life. Do you think he's been good for WNY? During the '90s, the United States experienced unprecedented prosperity, but somehow it never trickled into Buffalo. I'd stick witn the Dems--Elliot Spitzer for Governor, and Byron Brown for Mayor of Buffalo.

P.S.- I also think people are overestimating the impact Delphi's troubles will have on Buffalo. The factory is in Lockport (Niagara County) not even the same county as Buffalo. I would be a lot more concerned if I lived in the City of Niagara Falls or maybe North Tonawanda. I myslef have only been to Lockport once in my life, and I only know one person from there. It isn't very often that you meet someone from Lockport while going about your daily business in downtown Buffalo. I would guess that the people in Lockport don't even feel like Buffalonians, since my friends who live in Niagara Falls don't consider themselves to be from Buffalo. So I don't think it's precisely the same thing to Buffalo as losing Bethlehem Steel. Let's not be so dramatic.


According to Delphi approximately 40% of their employees live in Erie County compared to 15% that live in the combined City and Town of Lockport. The remainder live elsewhere in Niagara County as well as in Orleans and Genesee Counties. The closing would not have a devastaing efffect on the City or Town of Lockport. Since 1990 the company has eliminated over 8,000 positions in Lockport. During that same time frame the population of the City and Town of Lockport grew by 7.3% according to the US Census Bureau. Over the past ten years or so Lockport has become the bedroom community of choice for the booming Amherst job base. Many of the Geico workers that have relocated to WNY live in Lockport.

Regarding chump change the combined Lockport City/Town population has surpassed 44,000 according to the latest US census estimates. In fact the town itself has grown from less than 2,000 in 1960 to the current 22,000 plus and is expected to surpass 25,000 by the next census.

Perhaps the Delphi employees live in the hinterlands, or Northern reaches of Erie County, but I doubt they're in downtown Buffalo. The commute between Buffalo and Lockport would not be a short one. And I have never once met a single person who ever said he or she works for Delphi. (I live in downtown Buffalo.) In fact, I didn't even know there was a Delphi plant in Niagara County until the local media decided to run with this story. They're always hyping something up to scare everyone into tuning into the evening news or buying their crappy papers. All summer long, for example, it was the Air Force base in the Falls that was closing. Or it's the Erie County budget "crisis." Well, it turns out the base is still open, and I although I keep hearing about the county budget problems, I have yet to feel the pain from it. Do you know that my daily life has not changed one single bit since the ominous sounding "Red Budget" was implemented? The only difference is now I have to hear the news media constantly telling me how much my life, as an Erie County resident, should be sucking...and it doesn't. Don't get me wrong--any loss of jobs hurts the area, and I do feel (some) sympathy for the people affected by this. My only point, which you quoted, was that comparing this to the closing of Bethlehem Steel is a bit overstated and dramatic. I think we're agreeing on that point.

Perhaps the Delphi employees live in the hinterlands, or Northern reaches of Erie County, but I doubt they're in downtown Buffalo. The commute between Buffalo and Lockport would not be a short one. And I have never once met a single person who ever said he or she works for Delphi. (I live in downtown Buffalo.) In fact, I didn't even know there was a Delphi plant in Niagara County until the local media decided to run with this story. They're always hyping something up to scare everyone into tuning into the evening news or buying their crappy papers. All summer long, for example, it was the Air Force base in the Falls that was closing. Or it's the Erie County budget "crisis." Well, it turns out the base is still open, and I although I keep hearing about the county budget problems, I have yet to feel the pain from it. Do you know that my daily life has not changed one single bit since the ominous sounding "Red Budget" was implemented? The only difference is now I have to hear the news media constantly telling me how much my life, as an Erie County resident, should be sucking...and it doesn't. Don't get me wrong--any loss of jobs hurts the area, and I do feel (some) sympathy for the people affected by this. My only point, which you quoted, was that comparing this to the closing of Bethlehem Steel is a bit overstated and dramatic. I think we're agreeing on that point.


Actually a large number of the Delphi employees live within the City of Buffalo. When the Clyde Ave Buffalo plant closed in the mid- 1990's over 500 employees from that plant with seniority rights transferred to the Lockport plant. The fact that you do not know any of them is probably because they are largely African Americans. The commute from Lockport to Downtown Buffalo is 30 minutes or less depending upon where in the Town or City of Lockport you live. Delphi is approximately a 30 minute drive from the HSBC Arena.

The fact that you were not aware of the Delphi Plant is if I am guessing correctly that you are quite young, your posts would seem to indicate that you are probably no older than 28.

Yes we are very much in agreement regarding the Steel Plant. The Steel Plant employed 22,000 out of a total 2 county job total of 452,000 in 1982. Delphi employs 3,800 out of a total 2 county job base of 545,600 as of August 2005.

fact is these jobs can not be lost.

fact is these jobs can not be lost.

They are already gone! Per the President of Delphi "even if we cut the wages to $10.00 the Lockport Plant would still not be viable" It will take 18 months for the phase out. The only hope is that the 600+ employee R&D Center will stay.

double post

damn it.

The President's comment was during last weeks press conference. He went on to say that the items produced at Lockport are commodity items which are almost always cheaper to produce off shore. There is a chance he was just posturing but he does not seem like a poser. The Rochester Plant is also likely to close but the Henrietta Facility is safe.

Democrat or Republcian who cars... Pataki is a Republican and he is one of the shittiest governeres the state has ever had... now, if Guliani was running for governer, that'd be a different story.

The lasted Upstate economic data:

Albany-Schenectady-Troy: Since September 2004, the of private sector jobs has increased by 5,100 or 1.5 percent.
Buffalo-Niagara Falls: Since September 2004, the number of private sector jobs has increased by 1,900 or 0.4 percent.

Rochester: Since September 2004, the number of private sector jobs has DECREASED by 4,100 or 1.0 percent.

Syracuse: Since September 2004, the number of private sector jobs has increased by 3,500 or 1.3 percent.

Utica-Rome: Since September 2004, the number of private sector jobs DECREASED by 500 or 0.5 percent.

Note: The unemployment rate for New York and every other state is based on regression models specified by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The Democrat/Republican arguing is off topic. Neither party has produced any true leaders in NY. But to come out frothing about evil Republicans is ignorant of NY history which is very much largely democrat. Even if pataki was a failure (which i think he IS), the state was declining just as fast during Cuomo.

Anyway, Delphi is not as big as Bethlehem, but it will impact the area. Delphi employees are not all segregated to Lockport, they live all over the WNY metros. However the unions should have seen this coming and I think it is inevitable.

My big frustration is that I think we all assume the area has hit rock bottom and is finally turning around. But the turnaround can be slowed if there are constant mass layoffs. Many people lost jobs from the county last year. next year could be Delphi. Next it could be Ford and GM. Fact is that there are still 10's of thousands that still depend on unions or manufacturing around here. 25 years after Bethlehem closed down we are still a manufacturing city is very frustrating to me. Those bloated union wages need correction, but much or our community is also propped up by those wages. Pull the plug on it and the metro will have more problems for the near-term.