http://www.ersys.com/images/scle_eth.gif

http://www.ersys.com/usa/12/images/eth1245000a.png

I guess judging by that map Cuban is considered "white" rather than "hispanic".

"Where Blacks Live" -- http://www.miamidade.gov/planzone/Library/Census/Maps/where_black_live.pdf

"Where Hispanics Live" -- http://www.miamidade.gov/planzone/Library/Census/Maps/where_hisp_live.pdf

"Where Whites Live" -- http://www.miamidade.gov/planzone/Library/Census/Maps/where_white_live.pdf

I think Dave is right. Unless there has been a massive influx of non-hispanic whites that no one has noticed lately.

Ummm.... where the asians at?

lol all of the beaches are mostly white? maybe they mixed up da colors or somethin

Follow the money and you'll find the white people. Miami-Dade is one of the most economically and racially segregated places in the country.

There is no white middle class anymore in Miami-Dade. They all moved to Broward in the 70's, 80's and early 90's in a massive white flight.

The white non-hispanics left in Dade are largely upper middle class and rich and are clustered along the coasts in Miami Beach, Sunny Isles, Aventura, Brickell, Coral Gables, Pinecrest and parts of Kendall. It takes money to live in those parts of the county.

Whats left of the white middle class lives in Cutler Ridge/Homestead.

Im with Logy, the only areas in the city of Miami that have any numbers of whites is Coconut grove, brickell, the islands and around bay point/northeast miami. Outside they are pretty much in select areas if your looking for larger numbers. I would say Aventura and Pinecrest.

This is a racist thread. Those are graphics from the point of view of an ignorant,

Whites, most of the whites in Dade county are hispanic

What a shame !!!

Hispanics is not a race, and most of the hispanics are white

So whats the point of this useless, ignorant and racist thread ?

that map is full of shit... spending the vast majority of my time in the areas that it shows are 75% white... i can assure u... yet arent

lol i still wanna know where the asians are... :hm:

lol i still wanna know where the asians are...
I think they're having a barbecue with their neighbors... the gringo family in Hialeah :hilarious

Don't feel bad... in my neighborhood (West Miami), they don't even bother putting English ads in the free newspapers they stuff in the mailbox... at the apartment I lived in for a year out by where the Turnpike meets 836, the people in the office referred to me as el gringo. Not "uno de los gringos". El gringo. And this was a big complex with more than 150 apartments....

Even Broward now is becoming non-white, when I lived in North Miami Beach in the 90's Broward county was the white bastion for South Florida, now it seems that title is moving even further north to Palm Beach county.

I ran across this table on the Beacon Council website. From these stats it looks like the "whitest" cities are Aventura, Bal Harbour, Pinecrest and Golden Beach. The most Hispanic are Miami, Hialeah, Hialeah Gardens, Sweetwater, and the Unincorporated areas (i.e. Kendall, Westchester, & Fontainebleau). The most heavily Black cities are Opa-Locka, El Portal, Florida City and North Miami. It looks like the most integrated in South Miami: 35% White, 34% Hispanic, 25% Black.

http://www.beaconcouncil.com/010203.asp

Percent White Percent Black Percent Other Race Percent Hispanic
Miami-Dade County 69.7 20.3 10 57.3
Avenutra 93.8 1.7 4.5 20.7
Bal Harbour 94.5 1.6 3.9 23
Bay Harbor Islands 91.2 1.8 7 35.3
Biscayne Park 72.2 18.5 9.3 26.5
Coral Gables 91.8 3.3 5 46.6
El Portal 28.4 61.4 10.2 19.2
Florida City 29 58.7 12.3 32.1
Golden Beach 95.4 0.3 4.3 21.8
Hialeah 88 2.4 9.6 90.3
Hialeah Gardens 88.4 1.8 9.8 89.8
Homestead 61 22.5 16.5 51.8
Indian Creek Village 100 0 0 12.1
Islandia 100 0 0 0
Key Biscayne 95.5 0.5 4 40.8
Medley 84.2 7.3 8.5 72.6
Miami 66.6 22.3 10.1 65.8
Miami Beach 88.7 4 7.3 53.4
Miami Shores 65.1 24.5 10.4 21.7
Miami Springs 90.8 2 7.2 59.6
North Bay Village 81.1 5.1 13.8 49
North Miami 34.8 54.9 10.3 23.2
North Miami Beach 48.7 39 12.3 30
Opa-locka 22.8 60.6 6.6 28.5
Pinecrest 90.3 1.7 8 29.7
South Miami 69.8 24.7 6.5 34.4
Sunny Isles Beach 91.9 2 6.1 36.6
Surfside 93.5 5.1 5.2 43.5
Sweetwater 87.2 54.9 11.9 93.2
Virginia Gardens 85.3 2.3 12.6 67.2
West Miami 92 0.8 7.2 84
Unicorporated Miami-Dade 70.7 23.2 6.1 41.5


Note: Persons of Hispanic origin can be of any race.
Source: U.S. Department of Commerce, Bureau of the Census, and Miami-Dade County, Department of Planning and Zoning 2000

This is a racist thread. Those are graphics from the point of view of an ignorant,

Whites, most of the whites in Dade county are hispanic

What a shame !!!

Hispanics is not a race, and most of the hispanics are white

So whats the point of this useless, ignorant and racist thread ?

I agree 100%, Hispanic is not a race, in Latin America you have white, blacks, natives and mixed, so how can all of them be "Hispanic", the only thing they have in common is the language...its like saying that because you speak english you are Anglo...thats stupid...we don't need more racial divisions... :bash:

Even Broward now is becoming non-white, when I lived in North Miami Beach in the 90's Broward county was the white bastion for South Florida, now it seems that title is moving even further north to Palm Beach county.

I don't get this Broward now is becoming non-white...

Is this another racist comment ? :down:

I don't thing Broward is becoming a black or oriental county.

Keep in mind that most hispanics are of white race in case you need to be educated.

Apparently these comments are made by an ignorant that probably didn't even finish high school !!



:lock: :lock: Some Moderator please close this racist thread !!! :lock: :lock:

:deadthrea :deadthrea :deadthrea :deadthrea :deadthrea

^^^ careful.
Some asian people take offence to being called oriental (asian=people oriental=rugs). The graphic divides the region by ethnicity not race. So I would say that hispanics could be separated from whites because of cultural differences. I think this graphic shows that better efforts to integrate populations should be made. To exclaim that the thread is racist is to ignore obvious problems with our city just to be PC. We're all adults and can talk about issues like this, hopefully. Anyhow my favorite method of integration is magnet schools. Theyre the only public schools worth going to and draw together people from all over the county. Im sure there are other solutions. On that note I'm curious as to whether you guys think this is a problem or not.

Here's a novel idea....if you pay taxes to the US government, drive on US roads, go to US schools, and watch tv on US airwaves...you are an American! Eliminate the hyphen _________-American...you are an American. If you aren't legal yet...do what you have to do, we want you in! Come on, let's live dreams and build tall buildings, and make great schools, and put men and women on the moon!
Chuck...cue the record!!!
"Puerto Rican, Black, White, Chinese...c'mon y'all let's rock in peace!"

That would be great if only everyone despite race or ethnicity were always considered Americans. Unfortunately that isn't true. Slavery, Racism and Segregation have created many social problems that are still evident today. African-Americans still haven't reached equal socio-economic status to White Americans. Because of this it is important to address issues of socio-economic divisions that are dramatically obvious in this graphic.

That would be great if only everyone despite race or ethnicity were always considered Americans. Unfortunately that isn't true.Sorry that you don't feel that way.
I'll say it again, if you live in America, drive on the streets, etc etc...you are an American.
DGM, it's a shame that you don't think so.

I'm well aware of the fact that people of American citizenship are considered Americans. I was making a reference to slavery and times when African-Americans weren't given the right to vote. You argue that there should be no distinctions between race. But here we are discussing issues of race and ethnicity. It is impossible to do that without distinguishing between races. Really what we should be discussing is whether we think there are deep seeded race related socio-economic problems with the United States. It is my belief that there are. What is your opinion? You don't have to use hyphens if you don't want to. By the way the Mark Erikson analogy is flawed because the African-American population hasn't fully recovered. Yes it has been a long time since slavery. But, the Civil Rights Act was relatively recent.

Hey Pacho, it sounds like you are the racist one. Why are you so obsessed with hispanics being considered white, because if they aren't white then hispanics must be some trash race. Get over it dude, doesn't matter what the label is, it's your mind that gives definition to it. Even some hispanics that look pretty damn close to white, most of them are mixed with different races by some degree, it's just that many of them would never admit it, now that shit is as racist as you can get. Being racist against your self.

Hey Pacho, it sounds like you are the racist one. Why are you so obsessed with hispanics being considered white, because if they aren't white then hispanics must be some trash race. Get over it dude, doesn't matter what the label is, it's your mind that gives definition to it. Even some hispanics that look pretty damn close to white, most of them are mixed with different races by some degree, it's just that many of them would never admit it, now that shit is as racist as you can get. Being racist against your self.


Get a life !!!

Your comments are typical of a ignorant kid that needs to be educated and is posible that never went to even high school.
My family is Spanish who moved to Colombia where I was born then moved to Florida in the 50's, so I am white and also hispanic, which is not a race, because is one of the languages I speak.

Get it ? Go to school and get an education !! That where they will teach you that most hispanics are white.

I'm well aware of the fact that people of American citizenship are considered Americans. I was making a reference to slavery and times when African-Americans weren't given the right to vote.Okay...Maybe I should post this in the "Breaking News" section but...it isn't slavery times anymore. Slaves weren't African hyphen Americans, they were Africans. They didn't "drive on American roads, pay American taxes, etc" (are you reading anything that I'm writing here?)

You argue that there should be no distinctions between race.Not exactly...I argue that by making distinctions by race it perpetuates stereotypes and inequalities, and when we begin to eliminate that thinking things get better. I say make things better immediately. You say, keep labeling people so we can keep on with the same old discussion. But here we are discussing issues of race and ethnicity. It is impossible to do that without distinguishing between races.Okay, why are we still discussing this?? Over and over and over and over...try my idea for a couple years...treat people as Americans as opposed to "African-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Gay Americans, Democrats, Republicans, etc" I garuntee that once you can do that, you (and I do mean you individually) will be able to focus on ideas more easily.
When enough individuals think this way there will be a tipping point where it spreads like an epidemic. Sometimes it seems that we only band together when there is natural disaster or terrorist attack.
Really what we should be discussing is whether we think there are deep seeded race related socio-economic problems with the United States. It is my belief that there are. What is your opinion?Okay, we've been doing that over and over and over and we make a little progress...fine if you are into little changes...I'm talking about drastic change.
You don't have to use hyphens if you don't want to. By the way the Mark Erikson analogy is flawed because the African-American population hasn't fully recovered. I'll bet that anyone who has not credited the situation that their great, great, great Grandfather was in with their success or failure and has tried to take advantage of opportunities available in the United States is doing fine. Whether their ancestor was taken against their will from African, chased from England because of their religion, or if they were farmers from Switzerland. Yes it has been a long time since slavery. But, the Civil Rights Act was relatively recent.By the way, the Erikson beating occured more recently than 1965...I haven't fully recovered, there are still scars, but I had to get over it and move on, or I'd be trapped in misery and dispair.

People sure are being touchy about this. I dont make any distinctions about the people who live around me. They are my neighbors, some are friends, some are not but race doesnt determin which group they fall into. Calling each other ignorant because they see hispanics as another group isnt racist in my opinion (you yourself say it isnt a race, so how can it be racist?). In years to come immigrants will act like the rest of the contry and will have festivals to celebrate a heritage they probably dont remember.

Ok... uh... can we just forget about this thread and continue talking about skyscrapers...

in the great words of Rodney King.... "Can't we all just get along?"

Someone could also point out that ultimately, everyone's money is the same color... moreso when they're spending lots of it.

Ultimately, it's lower-class neighborhoods that make the most noise about the presence of people who are of a different race or ethnicity. A black family buying a $680,000 house in Miami Lakes barely raises an eyebrow. A black family buying a $360,000 house a half mile south in Hialeah sends waves of panic throughout the neighborhood. Twenty years ago, a Cuban family buying a $360,000 house in Plantation would have been equally unnoticed... but two miles further south, in (then) quite thoroughly redneck Davie, that same family would have had the neighbors foaming at the mouth.

In nice neighborhoods, people are secure enough in their property values to realize the family must obviously be doing something right if they can afford to live there... and if, by some chance, they get an insatiable urge to paint their house hot pink or electric blue... well... the homeowner's association's lawyers will see to it that it's quickly restored to one of the six approved shades of off-white or beige.

Ultimately, it's lower-class neighborhoods that make the most noise about the presence of people who are of a different race or ethnicity.
In nice neighborhoods, people are secure enough in their property values to realize the family must obviously be doing something right if they can afford to live there... and if, by some chance, they get an insatiable urge to paint their house hot pink or electric blue... well... the homeowner's association's lawyers will see to it that it's quickly restored to one of the six approved shades of off-white or beige.Hillarious, and true. You don't even have to be black or hispanic to be annoyed by home owner's associations!!!!

Hillarious, and true. You don't even have to be black or hispanic to be annoyed by home owner's associations!!!!

OMG Roark I hate those fucking people. I will never live in an area with a home owners association again. Those fools get high on the though of telling others what to do. Anyway they may be found to be illegal soon..hopefully.

What?,
I bet when people here you are Columbian, you very quickly intercede that you are pure Spanish though, because all of your relatives are from Spain. This is done just in case the person you are talking to might (even though they could probably care less) think you are not white. Who the fuck cares, I don't care if you think your white, you can think your purple and name yourself Barney all I care. Oh and in an attempt to burst your bubble, I must add in that most Spaniards have northern african/moorish blood which is not white from the time Spain was ruled by the Moors for many centuries. Now watch everybody, this guy pacho will flip out and say, his family was never touched during the time the Moors ruled Spain and his family is pure European, therefore "WHITE ". Dumb-ass

Ok... uh... can we just forget about this thread and continue talking about skyscrapers...

in the great words of Rodney King.... "Can't we all just get along?"


I second this opinion!

Now....A little levity for the forum.....

Ever had the Cuban dish Moros y Cristianos --Moors & Christians

White Rice mixed with Black beans cooked together, delicious.

That's what America is all about, a delicious stew of races, cultures and languages. North, South and Central.

"Can't we all just get along???

Now let's get back to skyscrapers and urbanity, please!!!!

Might this be a good time to cite Paul Alexander's "Tapestry of Subcultures"?

liat91 please refrain from calling people idiots, it only proves one thing that those that resort to name calling are usually hot thick headed fools...

In reference to the race issue who could actaully point out that they are 100% any race or color nowadays? its silly to even think that way.

i myself am cuban a direct decendant of ponce de leon. while my family ancestors consist of one white british great grandmother, one African Great Grandfather, One Cuban Indian Great Grandmother and one Spainaird Great Grandfather...

ask me what my nationality is i will tell you cuban ask me what my race is i will tell you i have no freaking clue asides to say that i am white in everyone elses eyes Because that is the color of my skin. does it matter?

not sure if it does i have black cuban in my family and chinnesse cuban and russian and french so while my cousins are all diverse it seems we all came from the same source when you trace it down the line...

liat91 please refrain from calling people idiots, it only proves one thing that those that resort to name calling are usually hot thick headed fools...
Very true. Even if it is a bit contradictory. I wonder if other cities out there are as divided ethnically as Miami.

I wonder if other cities out there are as divided ethnically as Miami.I don't think Miami isn't divided ethnically to it's detriment. Overwhelmingly, we are very much together.

Broward is still a very white county. It is quickly becoming more Hispanic, but most of those Hispanics are white. As for Asians, they are virtually nonexistant in Miami-Dade (they have a small presence in Kendall and Doral) but are found in much greater numbers in the newer communities of Broward. Broward still has a large white, non-Hispanic middle class. However, some of you are right that there is not a large, white non-Hispanic middle class in Miami-Dade. Although I suppose you could consider many older retirees in the beaches to be middle class, most white, non-Hispanic families do tend to live in upper-middle class and upper class areas in Coral Gables, Pinecrest, East Kendall, Palmetto Bay, and Key Biscayne. However, there are some white, non-Hispanic lower-middle class and middle class families living in Homestead, West Kendall (Country Walk area and The Hammocks), and Cutler Ridge.

Although many people reference "white flight" out of Miami-Dade over the last thirty years, it is certainly NOT the traditional white flight of middle class whites leaving communities that are newly populated by blacks and non-white Hispanics. The average American family moves about every six years, and because of that, homes are constantly for sale. In Miami-Dade, the massive influx of Cuban immigrants (and later Venezuelan and Colombian immigrants) quickly became part of the middle class and bought the homes those white non-Hispanics were selling. There really wasn't a major situation of whites selling their homes to "escape" minorities moving in: the "minorities" moving into their neighborhoods were overwhelmingly white (but of Hispanic descent) and middle class. White, non-Hispanics in these area live in areas very well "integrated" with Hispanics. Blacks, on the other hand, do live in fairly segregated areas here. In many areas, a feature such as a highway or canal will quite literally divide white areas from black areas. One of the most extreme occurs where a canal divides The Falls (upper-middle class white neighborhood) from Richmond Heights (lower-middle class black neighborhood) around 152nd street to the east of the Turnpike. However, there are a few areas with both white and black middle class presence, such as the Country Club neighborhood in extreme northwest Miami-Dade.

OMG, I lived in North Miami Beach from 89 to 97 and I can tell you that non-hispanic whites did leave because of hispanics, white or not. Maybe it's a cultural thing. I could easily tell the difference between a so called hispanic white from a non-hispanic white. Very easy to differentiate. You can even tell the difference between an Italian-american from a so called hispanic white. Having many, Cuban, Puerto Rican, and Honduran friends I can tell you a very small minority really truly look white, white to the point where they could go to Osh kosh Wisconsin and no one could tell the difference.

Oh yeah, I apologize to the level headed forumers for the idiot comment, I changed it anyway, because I think I was more baffled than angry.

Let's make this easier...

Refrain from saying "Whites" and instead use "Anglo-Saxon" cuz a "white" race does not exist, technically speaking. "White" has also been synonymous with Caucasian many times in the past -- and many Europeans and South Americans fit this mold. At least 25% of South America -- while it may be the minority, it is a sizeable chunk. So for the sake of the argument, White Hispanics do exist especially in Miami, but to make a better distinction, the Whites that are often referred to should be called "Anglo-Saxons" because there's hardly any Hispanic that is Anglo-Saxon (I'm sure there may be a few exceptions).

As for the "Anglo-Saxons" that left Miami-Dade for Broward simply because they felt insecure, let's call them "Gringos" to insult their pride. Actually, "stupid" or "mutt" would do it too.

Makes me wonder what the ethnical makeup of the forumers here.
Close this thread.

Let's make this easier...

Refrain from saying "Whites" and instead use "Anglo-Saxon" cuz a "white" race does not exist, technically speaking. "White" has also been synonymous with Caucasian many times in the past -- and many Europeans and South Americans fit this mold. At least 25% of South America -- while it may be the minority, it is a sizeable chunk. So for the sake of the argument, White Hispanics do exist especially in Miami, but to make a better distinction, the Whites that are often referred to should be called "Anglo-Saxons" because there's hardly any Hispanic that is Anglo-Saxon (I'm sure there may be a few exceptions).

As for the "Anglo-Saxons" that left Miami-Dade for Broward simply because they felt insecure, let's call them "Gringos" to insult their pride. Actually, "stupid" or "mutt" would do it too.

Makes me wonder what the ethnical makeup of the forumers here.
Close this thread.

I agree that we should probably close this thread.

Now that you've just dropped your drawers and taken a dump on it.

Let's make this easier...

Refrain from saying "Whites" and instead use "Anglo-Saxon" cuz a "white" race does not exist, technically speaking. "White" has also been synonymous with Caucasian many times in the past -- and many Europeans and South Americans fit this mold. At least 25% of South America -- while it may be the minority, it is a sizeable chunk. So for the sake of the argument, White Hispanics do exist especially in Miami, but to make a better distinction, the Whites that are often referred to should be called "Anglo-Saxons" because there's hardly any Hispanic that is Anglo-Saxon (I'm sure there may be a few exceptions).

As for the "Anglo-Saxons" that left Miami-Dade for Broward simply because they felt insecure, let's call them "Gringos" to insult their pride. Actually, "stupid" or "mutt" would do it too.

Makes me wonder what the ethnical makeup of the forumers here.
Close this thread.

Actually according to Websters Anglo saxon means: a member of the Germanic peoples conquering England in the 5th century A.D. and forming the ruling class until the Norman conquest, or ENGLISHMAN; specifically : a person descended from the Anglo-Saxons b : a white gentile of an English-speaking nation

As I am only one quarter English I do not fit into that definition. My employers wife in Miami always wanted to call us that too, funny. I told her the same thing I am telling you. I am only part Anglo Saxon and it would be an insult to the rest of my heritage to call myself that. I really doubt there are many anglos in South America or Miami.
As for why people left Miami I can only speak for my family. It had nothing to do with feeling insecure, but safe. That lone white face in a poor mostly black area wasnt very safe in Miami as the riots of the 80's should give hent to. Moving from Miami was the BEST thing my parents ever did for me and my siblings. It probably saved our lives.
I also agree that this thread should be closed.

I, on the other hand, am pure-blooded Anglo-Saxon, and am proud of all the carnage my forebears have wrought through the ages. :)

Lets keep this thread alive. It seems we can all learn about what is truly PC and what is not. I consider myself white-hispanic. Not because I am hispanic with light skin, but because my father is from texas and my mother is from cuba. My father's side of the family is purely american until the 1700s where it branches off to all parts of Europe. So anglo-saxon doesnt describe his ancestry well. My mothers side goes back to Spain. I think the term white hispanic came about partially to describe people like me that are half white and half hispanic.

I've heard lots of Cubans describe themselves as 'White-Cubans'.

That's true. I have also heard the term Afro-Cuban quite frequently.

First of all, this is not a negatively "racist" thread. I am not saying anything negative, prejudiced, or discriminatory regarding anyone of a certain race or ethnicity. I think this thread should could continue because some people seriously need to learn what constitutes a "race" or "ethnicity."

If you want to be completely and totally correct about race, we can agree that race is a social construct and that "races" were created by humans in effort to differentiate between groups, something that we all almost naturally do. However, in the real world, the concept of "race" is alive and well. The United Nations identifies three races: Caucasoid ("white" - although most people from the Middle East and some people in India are Caucasian.. which is another discussion), Negroid (black), and Mongoloid (Asiatic). Most countries in the world use these guidelines when classifying race, and in addition to that, differentiate certain ethnic groups WITHIN each race. For instance, the people native to most of Africa are black, but there are hundreds of distinct ethnic groups present, with different cultures and traditions within each.

The ways "Hispanic" and "Latino" are used in this country are absolutely insane. The people originally from the "Hispanic" country of Spain are white, along with the native populations of Portugal, Spain, Andorra, France, Italy, and Romania - the "Latin" countries. Before colonization of the New World (the Americas), the only people here were native Americans (who are part of the Asiatic race - they migrated across the Bering Straits of Alaska and evolved to look distinct from the people we call "Asian" today). Racial mixing in Latin America did not begin until Caucasian colonizers and Black (can be used almost interchangebly with "Negroid") slaves arrived. Because of that mixture, many countries in Latin America have very large mixed-race populations.

However, not everyone mixed. Take for instance, Argentina: its population is estimated to be approximately 97% Caucasian. Bolivia and Guatemala, both on the opposite end of the spectrum, are overwhelmingly indigenous American. Countries such as Venezuela, Colombia, and Brazil are in between: all feature large white, black, indigenous American, and mixed-raced populations. Latin American people are tremendously diverse. Don't people in the US distinguish blonde haired, green eyed Miss Universe contestants and telenovela stars from the short, dark, indigenous-looking people living in mountain villages in Bolivia and Mexico? Since the meaning of "Hispanic" has been warped so far from its original definition and now means "a person either from or tracing descent to either Spain or the Spanish-speaking countries of Latin America," ANYONE of ANY RACE that has any ties with Latin America or Spain can be considered Hispanic. Unlike here, "Hispanic" still retains its original meaning in many Latin American countries, meaning a Caucasian person who can trace his roots to Spain.

It is an undisputable FACT that most Hispanics in Miami are Caucasian. I just don't understand why people in this country are so defiant against admitting that Hispanics are not a race. Yes, some Hispanics here are partially mixed race, yet still indicate "white" on government forms asking for data on race. However, the majority of Hispanics here are 100% or nearly 100% Caucasian. It is just not uncommon for a Hispanic person here to have light skin, light hair, and blue, green, or hazel eyes. Many "Hispanics" are indistinguishable from non-Hispanic whites. In my experience, this is evident in Miami and South Florida in general more than any other metropolitan area in the US.

The use of "Anglo-Saxon" to describe "whites" is not completely accurate. Anglo-Saxon is a macroethnic group within the Caucasian race. "Latins" (I am strictly using the original meaning - people and descendants of the Latin countries in Europe) are also a giant macroethnic group. It would be completely incorrect to refer to an Caucasian Italian as Anglo-Saxon. I am 100% Caucasian. However, I am a mix of both Anglo-Saxon and Latin. In this country, my mother is referred to as white, non Hispanic (she is part British, Norwegian, and Italian - so she is not only Anglo-Saxon, but Latin as well) and my father is referred to as white, Hispanic (he is of Spanish and Italian descent, and is therefore Latin). My race is white and I also identify (ethnically) with being "Latin," "Hispanic," AND "Anglo-Saxon." To throw me into a group of "Hispanic" persons in the United States without regard to our different races, cultures, and ethnicities would be absolutely preposterous. THIS is the reason many Cuban-Americans here are very offended at being anyway associated with Mexicans (mostly of different racial origins and of a very, very different culture) or other Hispanic groups.

I am stunned at how very little people in this country know about race and ethnicity. Most people with whom I have spoken can barely tell me the difference between the two concepts! If there is one thing I ask of you, NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES refer to "Hispanic" as a race, and never assume that a white, non-Hispanic person is Anglo-Saxon.

What are the chances that two people would post simultaneously at 1:53 in the morning. I totally agree with you crisp. It would be a shame if this thread was shut down. And "Hispanic" is definately not a race but is an ethnicity. Anyhow good job crisp. Im going to go back to studying now.

O.K. for all the fringe caucasian groups out there, Osama Bin Laden is caucasian, because all countries as far east as Afghanistan are considered white/caucasian race. I dated a cuban girl that had very light skin, maybe lighter than many non-hispanic white people I have known, but she was distinguishable due to her features. There are Japanese from the north of the country in Sapporo which are extremely light and actually exhibit caucasian like features, who to me would be alot closer to caucasian looking than good ol Osama. There are also groups in India and the Pacific islands whom have skin blacker than many sub-saharan Africans as well. I agree with the basic three race classification, but this claim from many people hailing from Latin America that they are 100% white is bull. There was essentially way to much mixing that occured in Latin America for this to be true. Also unlike the British and French colonizers, the Spanish did not bring women with them in any large measure. This means that the Spanish conquistadors mixed in with the indiginous population considerably. Now there was some late European migration to South America, mainly Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay, many of these people never mixed in with the indigenous population. And this group isn't a majority of these countries although they are a large group. There are a large portion of hispanics (lets say about 20% of latin america) as a whole whom I would consider caucasian or majority caucasian. Then maybe 50% as less than 75% of any one race and the rest pure Sub-saharan African or indigenous american. And again, for Spain you have gotta consider North Africans as caucasians, many of whom look like good ol Osama, due to the fact there was centuries of moorish control of Spain and even Italy. So Spaniards in my opinion are majority caucasian although not pure. Between Central Africa and Northern Europe there is a continuum of racial melding, the mediterranean is really the only place where there is a significant change in looks. Yeah keep this thread open, it's good that we can all educate each other.

I am an American.

I`m here, and that's all that counts...

I`m here, and that's all that counts... So I don't count? :cry:

Touche', thank you, that's all that matters in the end. :)

I got some very subtle highlights in my hair, just the other day.

I could easily tell the difference between a so called hispanic white from a non-hispanic white. Very easy to differentiate.

Well you're not entirely right. A recently arrived white american, or one that didn't grow up in miami is very easy to differentiate. But otherwise, they can get pretty hard to differentiate. (They're many exceptions ofcourse).

Maybe you think you can tell them apart because you speak in english and they answer you in english, but when you least expect it someone else comes in, and they start speaking spanish.

Well you're not entirely right. A recently arrived white american, or one that didn't grow up in miami is very easy to differentiate.Yeah, only because they use their turn signals when they drive and use the crosswalks when pedestrians.

It seems there is a bad driving stereotype for everyone but white males.

It seems there is a bad driving stereotype for everyone but white males.

^ Won't stop to ask for directions when lost ?

I stand corrected.

I stand corrected.Like George Carlin said, "Anyone driving slower than you is an asshole, and anyone driving faster than you is a jerk!"

^ Won't stop to ask for directions when lost ?

I actually did that once :cheers:

Like George Carlin said, "Anyone driving slower than you is an asshole, and anyone driving faster than you is a jerk!"
didn't he say anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?

I actually did that once :cheers:

Well, that's because you're a metrosexual. :)

didn't he say anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?Oh yeah...I think you are right!!

Well, that's because you're a metrosexual. :)

Haha..uh wait a minute :weirdo:

While on the topic of ethnicity... has anyone else noticed that the lines at any Publix in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood are at least twice as long and four times as slow as the lines at a Publix somewhere like Homestead, Aventura, or just about anywhere in Broward? It seems like going to Publix just about anywhere in Miami inevitably turns into a half-hour+ ordeal, and I keep feeling shocked when I go to Publix up in Broward when visiting friends and driving home and just walk up to a cashier and never have to wait more than maybe a minute or so. Go to Publix in Dade, and there are INEVITABLY 3 or 4 people ahead. If it's the express lane, there will always be at least one old lady in line with an overflowing cart (and if you DARE to confront her and tell her she has too many items in her cart and has to get in another line (" '10 items or less' se dice, "diez cosas son el maximo para esta linea. Tu tienes viente y seis cosas, pues tu tienes que usar una otra linea.", the manager will come running over and bitch at you).

I hate going grocery shopping in Miami. Oh, and god forbid you might actually want to buy baked beans from the deli...

Wait... I almost forgot. CARTS. You know... the things Dade County grocery stores make you scavenge from the parking lot on your own, even though the American norm is to walk into the store and find hundreds of carts neatly lined up waiting for customers. I think that was the hardest thing to get used to after spending a summer in North Dallas (Plano) a few summers ago... god, it was nice finding carts in the stores ;-)

^ are you implying that hispanics take longer to shop or are slow?...because that's what it sounds like. Ever think that Miami Dade has 600,000 more people than Broward too? Just about every Publix I ever go to is usually packed no matter where it is..your comments sound somewhat racist.

As a group, Hispanic customers are noticeably more tolerant of slow service and people getting in their way. There are exceptions, of course... but in Hispanic culture it IS considered acceptable for an old lady with 21 items in her cart to ignore the sign that says "10 items or less" -- knowing fully well what it means. In Aventura, if a little old lady pushes an overflowing cart into the express line, another equally old lady will quickly whack her with her cane and tell her to get the **** out of her way. And the manager WILL make the lady with more than 10 items get into another line.

There's also the matter of tolerance towards children's misbehavior. How many times have you been at a restaurant or public place in Miami and had to endure one or more kids running around the place, SCREAMING their lungs out, while their parents sat by and smiled? In the midwest, their mom would drag them out to the parking lot and beat them within an inch of their lives, then explain the concept of "inside voice vs outside voice", and why screaming and annoying other adults is simply Not Acceptable.

Want to see examples of both tolerance towards delay and misbehaving kids? OK, go to the McDonalds on SW 8th Street by 72 ave at, say, 3pm. If you're lucky, you'll get your food within 15 minutes of arriving... IF nobody's in line ahead of you. The next day, go to a McDonalds in Homestead, Aventura, or Broward at the same time, and compare the service. It's night-and-day. Need more proof? OK, go to the McDonalds at the corner of Flagler Street and 107th Avenue, same time. Now go to another McDonalds in Homestead, Aventura, or Broward, and compare the speed of service and behavior of the kids. Oh, you're REALLY a glutton for punishment? OK, go to the McDonalds at Coral Way and 87th Avenue, then compare it to a third McDonalds in, say, Weston. Or Plantation. The difference is so obvious it hurts.

It's purely a culturally-reinforced behavior. Away from Miami, Hispanic parents quickly learn that letting their kids act the way they do in Miami will get them unceremoniously thrown out of a TGI Fridays or Pizza Hut in Atlanta, Seattle, or Pittsburgh, and learn to beat their kids into silence like everyone else. In Miami, acceptance of misbehavior by small children is so pervasive, even Anglo parents feel pressured to let their kids act the same way, lest others think they're bad, evil, abusive parents for beating their kids in the parking lot for doing what THEY view as normal, acceptable behavior for children.

Are you guys sure Miami is over the race issue? I sure here the phrase racist a lot in this thread when people make an observation. I shop in my own town and the town down the road (which is 5 times larger) and they have longer lines. Both have carts in the store though.

[QUOTE=miamicanes]There's also the matter of tolerance towards children's misbehavior. How many times have you been at a restaurant or public place in Miami and had to endure one or more kids running around the place, SCREAMING their lungs out, while their parents sat by and smiled? In the midwest, their mom would drag them out to the parking lot and beat them within an inch of their lives, then explain the concept of "inside voice vs outside voice", and why screaming and annoying other adults is simply Not Acceptable.QUOTE]

Whoa there cheif, not to fond of the statement that people int the midwest beat there kids in the parking lot. Child abuse is frowned on here, and hopefully everywhere. People do not openly hit there children where I live, that is not kosher. Are they tougher on there kids? Maybe, probably and that explanes why we have lower crime and higher rates of graduation. I grew up im Miami, I dont let my kids run around and bother other people at a restaurant. Its a personal thing I guess and a cultural one too. I do notice that Mexicans here seem to expect there children to be calm in a restaurant too though. Maybe its because other do, and mabye its because their culture is different than Cuban-American culture. Who knows.

Well, ok, maybe "beating to within an inch of their lives" is exaggerating things a bit... but I definitely got spanked a few times by my parents for screaming in restaurants and public places when I was ~3-5 (in Ohio). Eventually, I got the message: screaming in restaurants is not allowed, and will result in immediate corporal punishment. And when I was in high school (in Florida), I had a friend who was from Youngstown who used to joke about how funny it was to be walking through K-Mart and see some big, fat lady with a halter top beating the crap out of her kid with one of her flip-flops because he touched a bag of candy or something. That's obviously an exaggeration, but one that probably has more than a grain of truth to it, because the whole image resonated instantly. There was no need to fill in more detail, because it just seemed obvious that a big fat lady with a halter top shopping at K-Mart would take off one of her flip-flops and whack her kid with it a few times for doing something forbidden...

I'm not sure if it's good or bad...but I've noticed that when at a Publix there is mucho social interaction between the customers from spanish speaking places and spanish speaking cashiers. It goes a bit beyond "How are you, have a nice day".
Of course, this doesn't happen on Miami Beach, but if I stop by the Brickell Publix it happens all the time.
I think it's pretty cool that people spend a little time being social at the grocery store. Even though I have a cell phone planted in my ear and I might think I have a crucial thing to do, it's nice to see neighbors interacting.
Canes...loved the "Work up a number six on 'em" reference. Born and raised in Michigan my folks wouldn't have any misbehavin' in public...never hit me (hard), but it was understood that people shouldn't get loud in public, and my parents treated their children like young people.

First of all, this is not a negatively "racist" thread. I am not saying anything negative, prejudiced, or discriminatory regarding anyone of a certain race or ethnicity. I think this thread should could continue because some people seriously need to learn what constitutes a "race" or "ethnicity."

If you want to be completely and totally correct about race, we can agree that race is a social construct and that "races" were created by humans in effort to differentiate between groups, something that we all almost naturally do. However, in the real world, the concept of "race" is alive and well. The United Nations identifies three races: Caucasoid ("white" - although most people from the Middle East and some people in India are Caucasian.. which is another discussion), Negroid (black), and Mongoloid (Asiatic). Most countries in the world use these guidelines when classifying race, and in addition to that, differentiate certain ethnic groups WITHIN each race. For instance, the people native to most of Africa are black, but there are hundreds of distinct ethnic groups present, with different cultures and traditions within each.

The ways "Hispanic" and "Latino" are used in this country are absolutely insane. The people originally from the "Hispanic" country of Spain are white, along with the native populations of Portugal, Spain, Andorra, France, Italy, and Romania - the "Latin" countries. Before colonization of the New World (the Americas), the only people here were native Americans (who are part of the Asiatic race - they migrated across the Bering Straits of Alaska and evolved to look distinct from the people we call "Asian" today). Racial mixing in Latin America did not begin until Caucasian colonizers and Black (can be used almost interchangebly with "Negroid") slaves arrived. Because of that mixture, many countries in Latin America have very large mixed-race populations.

However, not everyone mixed. Take for instance, Argentina: its population is estimated to be approximately 97% Caucasian. Bolivia and Guatemala, both on the opposite end of the spectrum, are overwhelmingly indigenous American. Countries such as Venezuela, Colombia, and Brazil are in between: all feature large white, black, indigenous American, and mixed-raced populations. Latin American people are tremendously diverse. Don't people in the US distinguish blonde haired, green eyed Miss Universe contestants and telenovela stars from the short, dark, indigenous-looking people living in mountain villages in Bolivia and Mexico? Since the meaning of "Hispanic" has been warped so far from its original definition and now means "a person either from or tracing descent to either Spain or the Spanish-speaking countries of Latin America," ANYONE of ANY RACE that has any ties with Latin America or Spain can be considered Hispanic. Unlike here, "Hispanic" still retains its original meaning in many Latin American countries, meaning a Caucasian person who can trace his roots to Spain.

It is an undisputable FACT that most Hispanics in Miami are Caucasian. I just don't understand why people in this country are so defiant against admitting that Hispanics are not a race. Yes, some Hispanics here are partially mixed race, yet still indicate "white" on government forms asking for data on race. However, the majority of Hispanics here are 100% or nearly 100% Caucasian. It is just not uncommon for a Hispanic person here to have light skin, light hair, and blue, green, or hazel eyes. Many "Hispanics" are indistinguishable from non-Hispanic whites. In my experience, this is evident in Miami and South Florida in general more than any other metropolitan area in the US.

The use of "Anglo-Saxon" to describe "whites" is not completely accurate. Anglo-Saxon is a macroethnic group within the Caucasian race. "Latins" (I am strictly using the original meaning - people and descendants of the Latin countries in Europe) are also a giant macroethnic group. It would be completely incorrect to refer to an Caucasian Italian as Anglo-Saxon. I am 100% Caucasian. However, I am a mix of both Anglo-Saxon and Latin. In this country, my mother is referred to as white, non Hispanic (she is part British, Norwegian, and Italian - so she is not only Anglo-Saxon, but Latin as well) and my father is referred to as white, Hispanic (he is of Spanish and Italian descent, and is therefore Latin). My race is white and I also identify (ethnically) with being "Latin," "Hispanic," AND "Anglo-Saxon." To throw me into a group of "Hispanic" persons in the United States without regard to our different races, cultures, and ethnicities would be absolutely preposterous. THIS is the reason many Cuban-Americans here are very offended at being anyway associated with Mexicans (mostly of different racial origins and of a very, very different culture) or other Hispanic groups.

I am stunned at how very little people in this country know about race and ethnicity. Most people with whom I have spoken can barely tell me the difference between the two concepts! If there is one thing I ask of you, NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES refer to "Hispanic" as a race, and never assume that a white, non-Hispanic person is Anglo-Saxon.

:applause: cheers from a white hispanic with black hispanic relatives. :cheers:

OI agree with the basic three race classification, but this claim from many people hailing from Latin America that they are 100% white is bull. There was essentially way to much mixing that occured in Latin America for this to be true.

Go to the central parts of this country and native blood courses through more people's veins than you think

And again, for Spain you have gotta consider North Africans as caucasians, many of whom look like good ol Osama, due to the fact there was centuries of moorish control of Spain and even Italy. So Spaniards in my opinion are majority caucasian although not pure.

very very debatable. the moors in spain kept a VERY VERY VERY strict separation between the muslim and christian communities. and in 1492, everyone not professing the catholic faith was kicked out. so, no, there was not any significant moorish contribution to spain.

People in this country just have a f*cked up impression that you have to be lilly white with blond hair and blue eyes to be considered white, when in reality, look at southern europe, you will find europeans who do not come anywhere close to meeting this stereotype. in fact they probably look more like the civilized romans did, as being lily white is more of a barbarian trait. your average sophisticated roman woman with olive skin and curly dark hair had more in common with a white latina you are so quickly labeling as not being white than a pale barbarian

Hispanic parents don't let their children run wild. Remember that one of the oldest stereotypes of hispanic parents is that they chaperone dates. Watch a few episodes of Que Pasa USA and you'll see how much the show emphasized the sometimes overbearing nature of hispanic parents.

As a group, Hispanic customers are noticeably more tolerant of slow service and people getting in their way. There are exceptions, of course... but in Hispanic culture it IS considered acceptable for an old lady with 21 items in her cart to ignore the sign that says "10 items or less" -- knowing fully well what it means. In Aventura, if a little old lady pushes an overflowing cart into the express line, another equally old lady will quickly whack her with her cane and tell her to get the **** out of her way. And the manager WILL make the lady with more than 10 items get into another line.

There's also the matter of tolerance towards children's misbehavior. How many times have you been at a restaurant or public place in Miami and had to endure one or more kids running around the place, SCREAMING their lungs out, while their parents sat by and smiled? In the midwest, their mom would drag them out to the parking lot and beat them within an inch of their lives, then explain the concept of "inside voice vs outside voice", and why screaming and annoying other adults is simply Not Acceptable.

Want to see examples of both tolerance towards delay and misbehaving kids? OK, go to the McDonalds on SW 8th Street by 72 ave at, say, 3pm. If you're lucky, you'll get your food within 15 minutes of arriving... IF nobody's in line ahead of you. The next day, go to a McDonalds in Homestead, Aventura, or Broward at the same time, and compare the service. It's night-and-day. Need more proof? OK, go to the McDonalds at the corner of Flagler Street and 107th Avenue, same time. Now go to another McDonalds in Homestead, Aventura, or Broward, and compare the speed of service and behavior of the kids. Oh, you're REALLY a glutton for punishment? OK, go to the McDonalds at Coral Way and 87th Avenue, then compare it to a third McDonalds in, say, Weston. Or Plantation. The difference is so obvious it hurts.

It's purely a culturally-reinforced behavior. Away from Miami, Hispanic parents quickly learn that letting their kids act the way they do in Miami will get them unceremoniously thrown out of a TGI Fridays or Pizza Hut in Atlanta, Seattle, or Pittsburgh, and learn to beat their kids into silence like everyone else. In Miami, acceptance of misbehavior by small children is so pervasive, even Anglo parents feel pressured to let their kids act the same way, lest others think they're bad, evil, abusive parents for beating their kids in the parking lot for doing what THEY view as normal, acceptable behavior for children.

Hm. That's wrong. I agree with DGM. American kids are the ones that scream even in the bookstores as it happened recently in Borders. Usually the Hispanic kids are better behaved than the American ones because of closer parental supervision. But I do agree with you about the tolerance for the wait -- after all, the wait in Latin America is worse than in Miami (except for the airport).

Wow. What a thread. Its a shame that race is such a taboo issue, ESPECIALLY here in Florida. While miamicanes made a few generalizations, I can't help but agree with him for the most part. Sure, there are variances between races, but Hispanics are generally more social, relaxed, loud people- and I mean that in a good way, most of the time. As for the McDonald's commentary, it's pretty much true. I live in a very white area south of Tampa where the children are typically much more mannered in restaurants and in Publix than in the KnK down the road in predominantly Mexican part of town. It's a cultural difference that seems to be pretty typical in Florida, and I don't see it as that big of a deal. Sure, I might wait in line three minutes longer if I shop in the Mexican town (That was NOT meant to be a racist remark... I'm just trying to differentiate), but I see a different, appreciable type of social interaction. It's all good. :)

im white, but im peruvian.
do I get counted as white or hispanic?

YOU KNOW HOW AUTHORITIES ARE ALWAYS BLASTING LOUD, BAD MUSIC AGAINST PEOPLE WHO THEY ARE TRYING TO GET TO COME OUT AND GIVE UP....??

WELL THEY SHOULD READ THESE POSTS TO TORTURE PEOPLE!! I CAN SEE AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL GETTING INVOLVED.....

THE EMBARCADERO

PS....WHY DON'T YOU ALL JUST WHIP OUT YOUR VERGAS AND SEE WHO IS THE BEST !!

Hm. That's wrong. I agree with DGM. American kids are the ones that scream even in the bookstores as it happened recently in Borders. Usually the Hispanic kids are better behaved than the American ones because of closer parental supervision. But I do agree with you about the tolerance for the wait -- after all, the wait in Latin America is worse than in Miami (except for the airport).

It seems your making a distinction between hispanics and Americans.

Remember that one of the oldest stereotypes of hispanic parents is that they chaperone dates.
Well, I was specifically referring to ultra-young children, as in 8 or under. I agree that for girls at least, the positions flip radically once they reach their teens. Anglo parents tend to throw up their arms in despair and simply delude themselves into believing their daughters are pure and innocent, while Hispanic parents tend to become positively neurotic about protecting their daughters' virginity (or at least their reputations).

Confession: I'd never even heard of a "technical virgin" until my freshman year at FIU... and when someone first told me what a "technical virgin" was, the criteria for classification as one, and why girls from Lourdes and Belen were notorious for fitting into that category, I laughed so hard I couldn't breathe for about 5 minutes. The freakiest part was that guys who graduated from Columbus and other private schools actually bought into it and were adamant that they wouldn't marry a girl who wasn't a virgin, but wouldn't date a girl who wasn't a technical virgin.

Hispanic children behaving worse than little american kids? How do you even know that the ones behaving well are not hispanic? Because they're white? You think that because they're white and speak english they're not hispanic? :nono:
Also, you talk about publix at weston... well let me tell you, it is FILLED with hispanics. Don't believe me? Ask 10 people the time in spanish, and see how many answer you. I think your issue is that you don't know how to tell americans, from miami hispanics apart.I understand if you're somewhere in the midwest - that's another story, but in miami, things are so very different, common, you should know that...

Ps: Sorry if I sounded defensive, I do not mean to, it's not like if you insulted anyone. :)

Hispanic children behaving worse than little american kids? How do you even know that the ones behaving well are not hispanic? Because they're white? You think that because they're white and speak english they're not hispanic? :nono:
Also, you talk about publix at weston... well let me tell you, it is FILLED with hispanics. Don't believe me? Ask 10 people the time in spanish, and see how many answer you. I think your issue is that you don't know how to tell americans, from miami hispanics apart.I understand if you're somewhere in the midwest - that's another story, but in miami, things are so very different, common, you should know that...

Ps: Sorry if I sounded defensive, I do not mean to, it's not like if you insulted anyone. :)

Can we assume that hispanics can be Americans? Ive met a few, they hang out with us metrosexuals.

Can we assume that hispanics can be Americans? Ive met a few, they hang out with us metrosexuals.

I was afraid of something like this happening. ;)

:D

Also, you talk about publix at weston... well let me tell you, it is FILLED with hispanics. My room mate is from Weston. He was born and raised in Colombia (Not Columbia... My bad).

Edited.