I'm interested in Metrorail. Is it all above ground like I believe it is, and if so, why? Was it too expensive for tunnelling at the time? Are there any sections planned to be built that are underground?

Metrorail was built above ground, because Miami is at sea level. If you were to dig just a few feet in the ground, you'd hit water. It took about four years to build it (1980-1984) and it cost over $1 billion. It has since been a complete financial failure and has been criticized for its high cost and the way the system was designed out of the major population centers. At the moment, a underground section is planned from the Government Center station which is the the main terminal to Miami International Airport.

Metrorail was built above ground, because Miami is at sea level
Not quite... Metrorail was built above ground because it didn't go through any areas that were sufficiently dense and expensive to merit the cost of tunneling. Remember... beneath the concrete, most big cities are muddy swamps. That includes New York, Chicago, Washington, London, Hamburg, and just about every other major city in the world built next to an ocean or major river. Groundwater is a problem that all tunnels have to deal with, regardless of where they're built. Geologically, Miami is no better, and no worse, than any of those other cities -- all of which have major underground construction. In Boston, they dealt with it by sticking rods into the ground to freeze the water and turn it to ice when building the "Big Dig". In other areas, where the ground was mushy, they dug pits, lowered precast tunnel segments into them, and used hydraulic rams to push them into the mud (scooping out the mud that got squeezed into the tunnel after a few pushes). I don't know offhand how they dealt with it when building the World Trade Center's "bathtub", but I know it was regarded as an engineering nightmare because the ground was so wet and unstable. The only thing that makes Miami different is that it's a newer city, only slightly more than a hundred years old, so it's only recently become dense and expensive enough to start meriting the added cost of underground construction.

If Metrorail were run to South Beach as a real subway, the biggest real problem they'd have is designing the stations with watertight vault-like doors at the surface that could be closed and sealed during hurricanes to keep the stations from getting flooded from storm surge above (insert image of water pouring down the stairs from above). A station beneath South Pointe would probably have to be mined out since the tunnels would be at least 50 feet underground at that point, but the rest of the stations could all be built by traditional "cut 'n cover" techniques. The tunnels themselves might as well be bored all the way to Lincoln Road, though, since the tunnel boring machine would already be there (the most expensive part is getting it to the staging area in the first place and assembling it) and would be less disruptive to everyone. For the record, I think that's how Toronto's newest line was built... they excavated out the stations from above, but bored out the tunnels in between, using one of the future stations as the staging ground for assembling the TBM and removing it after all the tunnels were done.

The only other section that might make sense as a subway would be a future line between the airport and coconut grove... but even that would only make sense as a subway if they actually ran it all the way to Cocowalk and City Hall, because running metrorail aboveground south of US-1 through the Grove will never, ever happen (the Grove IS expensive enough to justify the cost). North of US-1, it would be kind of pointless to continue it as a subway, because Douglas Road isn't expensive enough to justify the cost building it as a subway (a route directly through Coral Gables, below Ponce de Leon, might be justifiable as a subway, because there's no other way Coral Gables would allow it to be built.

Personally, I think the proposed line from the airport to the grove should be built using MetroMover trains and track. Then they could run it aboveground, even through the heart of Coral Gables and Coconut Grove, because the trains themselves are almost silent. It would be more useful, because they could put the stops 1/3 to 1/2 mile apart, and directly serve the Coconut Grove convention center/City Hall, Cocowalk, McDonald Street at Bird Road, Douglas Road Station, then every half-mile or so heading north along Ponce, with final stops at Ponce & SW 8th Street, 37th & Flagler, NW 7th & Flagler, and MIC... maybe someday extending it further north and west to downtown Hialeah, or even Hialeah Station (providing a direct north-south route to Coral Gables and the Grove from Metrorail for riders getting on at the new station in north Doral by the Palmetto. Of course, the new 'mover-type line would definitely NOT be free (it would be priced the same as the rest of Metrorail).

^ Damn...


.....that was deep :sleepy: lol

Great explanations, thanks. So why is there suddenly so much talk about expansion after so long? Here's a map of expansion plans from another Metrorail thread. What's MIC, and why not just a single line from FIU to the existing Metrorail? It seems strange to have one line, have to get off to change to another line just for one station (does it use the same technology as the Metrorail?). And why not connect it with the other new line, the North Corridor?

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4307/metroexpansion7ay.gif

So is there an underground line going to MIA?

The proporsed underground segment is the second segment of the East-West Multimodal Corrdior, which is proposed to be completed in 2016 (the first segment is on track for a 2014 opening). I have a picture of the segment somewhere, I'll have to find it...

Speaking of flooding stations, that is a big problem in Boston whenever they get heavy rains. Especially in the areas where it goes from being above ground to below ground (just west of Kenmore Square if you know the area). The water just flows down the subway line like a river.

Dave is there anyway to drain that, or do they have to close down the line and use pumps?

I think they just pump it out. I remember after one flood in 1997 (could have been 1998) the green line was out for like a week.

In all honesty, I don't think the east-west line between the airport and downtown/port will EVER get built unless they ultimately decide to extend it all the way to south beach. That portion, if built as a subway, will be astronomically expensive, and will maybe serve 2 or 3 areas that are more than a half mile away from an existing station.

The Orange Bowl? 20 years ago, when the area was a hardcore, dangerous ghetto, having to walk a half mile from the station to the stadium was a big deal. Now... well, let's just say I don't even bother with the shuttle bus when I go to UM games. I just walk. It's what, maybe 10 minutes max?

Now... if the line WERE to go to the port and continue to South Beach, I guess it woudl be worthwhile, because it would enable someone getting on at the airport to take a single train to the port or beach without having to transfer (a big deal, when you're dealing with tourists who get scared and confused when they have to change trains).

OK, I'll admit it... I hope Baylink never sees the light of day. I think it's an ill-conceived attempt to be penny-wise and pound-foolish by spending $700 million on a line that few tourists will use because it'll be an hour trip or more from the airport to Lincoln Road. And even fewer residents will use, because it'll be intolerably slow for anyone who needs to travel between the beach and the mainland on a regular basis. Let's be honest... add in time waiting for trains, and it's not going to be a short trip. Along the way, it'll screw up traffic, and NOBODY who lives in South Beach will use it to get to work, because it'll likely take a half hour just to get to Government Center. Running Metrorail as a real subway might cost $2 billion or more, but at least THEN we'd have a real solution that would be fast and convenient enough for even locals to use. And dammit... we're the ones who are going to be paying for it for the next 50 years, so it better be convenient for us to use, too... It's like buying clothes... a $45 shirt you wear once is extravagant... a $90 shirt you wear almost weekly for two years is a bargain.

By the way, for those who haven't heard, one of the rails (the the steel things the wheels ride on) was blown down from a section of Metrorail near Jackson. I personally think the Herald's headline (calling it a "collapse") went overboard to the point of silly hype. It's the kind of thing that takes longer to fill out the paperwork and get permission to actually hire someone to fix than it actually takes to fix. Unless the unions or some agency decide to be petty, I expect it to be repaired by next Monday at the absolute latest.

Speaking of rails blowing down, how much damage is the Metrorail built to withstand, with all the hurricanes in the area?

Plans take Tri-Rail south, west
Citing existing traffic woes -- not future needs -- officials are pushing for a no-frills commuter rail line into southwest Miami-Dade that would open next year.
BY LARRY LEBOWITZ
llebowitz@MiamiHerald.com

Local transportation officials are pushing to build a new Tri-Rail extension 20 miles into the heart of southwestern Miami-Dade County -- a line that would provide a new commuting option for hundreds of thousands of suburbanites.

Dozens of critical details are still in flux. For one, nobody has approached CSX Transportation to see if the company would be willing to lease or sell a freight line that runs through the heavily populated area. But proponents hope to start running a bare-bones system, with the next generation of diesel-powered trains, as soon as April 2007.

The line would run from Kendall-Tamiami Executive Airport, past Metrozoo, the Snapper Creek rest area on Florida's Turnpike and the Miami Dade College-Kendall campus en route to Tri-Rail's Miami Airport station.

Commuters could ride two stops beyond MIA and transfer to Metrorail to complete the journey downtown, according to plans being developed by the South Florida Regional Transportation Authority and Miami-Dade Transit.

''I really think it's doable -- and doable in short order,'' SFRTA executive director Joseph Giulietti said. ``I think we'll draw ridership out there from Day One.''

Miami-Dade Transit would be responsible for maintaining the tracks and constructing concrete slab platforms on property already controlled by the county.

''We're not talking about a lot of creature comforts,'' said Transit Director Roosevelt Bradley. ``We just want to get the service out there, get it up and running. We think the ridership will be there.''

The project is being pushed by County Commission Chairman Joe Martinez, who represents the west Kendall area.

HELP FOR COMMUTERS

'I've always called Metrorail `Metrofail' because it doesn't go where people actually live,'' Martinez said. ``This line we're talking about here would run right through the Kendall suburbs. And these people need help right now.''

Martinez knows firsthand.

If he leaves his home in the Hammocks by 7:30 a.m., he's lucky to make it downtown by 9:20 most mornings. The return trip isn't much better for hundreds of thousands who live in Country Walk, Richmond Heights, Kendale Lakes and other densely populated areas on both sides of the Don Shula Expressway and Florida's Turnpike.

Preliminary engineering studies on the tracks and possible platform locations are underway. A price tag is forthcoming, Transit Deputy Director Albert Hernandez said.

Unlike the busy 71-mile corridor that Tri-Rail shares with CSX and Amtrak from Jupiter to Miami, the single-track line under consideration is comparatively quiet. CSX runs, at most, one or two trains a day down to a lumberyard and building-supply wholesaler in Homestead.

CSX spokesman Gary Sease said neither Tri-Rail nor Miami-Dade has approached the rail company to open talks for a possible short-term lease or purchase of the line.

Martinez is pushing for trains that would depart every half-hour during the weekday rush.

That might be an overly optimistic goal unless the county and Tri-Rail are willing to spend an unknown sum to upgrade the existing freight tracks so they would meet minimum federal safety standards for passenger service that would move fast enough to meet Martinez's wish.

The new rail line is far from a done deal, especially given the complicated political history of competing commuter rail and mass-transit dreams in South Florida.

Martinez has been pushing for a Tri-Rail expansion into Miami-Dade on a different set of freight tracks since he was elected to the commission in 2002. But he, Giulietti and others have been repeatedly thwarted in their attempts to win support for an extension parallel to the Dolphin Expressway from the airport to west of the Turnpike.

County managers and transit boosters feared that even a bare-bones Tri-Rail operation in that area would siphon away riders needed to secure hundreds of millions in matching federal construction funds for Metrorail's long-planned East-West expansion.

That Metrorail line -- from the airport to Florida International University -- would cost $1.3 billion and could open in 2014 at the earliest.

Martinez wants something that can happen faster and cost less. ''My attitude is, the traffic's bad now. People are stuck now,'' Martinez said. ``We can't wait five or 10 years to see if we can qualify for federal funds and then build [the Metrorail East-West line]. We can get thousands of cars off the road right now. And we can do this a lot cheaper than Metrorail.''

Tri-Rail is slated to receive the first two trains for the new service -- known as Diesel Multiple Units, or DMUs -- from the Colorado Railcar Co. in early February.

A DRY RUN

To build support, Martinez is hoping to invite a large number of elected leaders and transportation officials to take a dry run on the new trains in late February or early March. Three more trains are slated for delivery in July.

The double-decker DMUs are the wave of the commuter-rail future, Brad Barkman, Tri-Rail director of operations, said. Tri-Rail currently runs a series of 130-to-150-seat passenger coaches behind a 3,000-horsepower locomotive with no seating capacity.

By comparison, the DMUs are 1,200-horsepower vehicles that can carry 188 passengers. That means a typical three-car DMU train -- one 218-seat passenger coach sandwiched between two power units -- could carry up to 494.

The trains are ultimately destined for Central Florida, where state officials are trying to kick-start a 61-mile, four-county commuter rail service tentatively slated to start in the fall of 2009.

The state purchased the five trains for $22.9 million, the vast bulk of the funding earmarked by Rep. John Mica, a Central Florida Republican who chairs an influential transportation subcommittee.

Giulietti said Tri-Rail has permission to keep using the trains if the Central Florida rail line isn't ready by then.

And if the Kendall area rail line draws riders, Tri-Rail and Miami-Dade Transit would both apply for federal funds to purchase additional cars and make track and station improvements.

Posted on Wed, Feb. 08, 2006

TRANSPORTATION: 'A big step' forward for rail project.
A proposed Metrorail extension from Liberty City to Dolphins Stadium clears a major bureaucratic hurdle. But several key steps lie ahead.
BY LARRY LEBOWITZllebowitz@MiamiHerald.com

The Metrorail North Corridor extension took a bureaucratic leap forward Tuesday when federal officials gave the $914.7 million project a positive rating for the first time since Miami-Dade voters passed a half-cent sales tax in 2002 to help pay for it.
Despite the overall ''medium'' rating from the Federal Transit Administration, the North Corridor is far from a done deal.

''It's a big step,'' Miami-Dade Transit Director Roosevelt Bradley said.
''But we're not there yet,'' Bradley said.
The county hopes to build the 9.5-mile project along Northwest 27th Avenue, from the Martin Luther King Jr. station with stops proposed at Northwest 82nd Street, Miami Dade College North, Opa-locka, just north of the Palmetto Expressway, Miami Gardens Drive, Dolphins Stadium and County Line Road.

The plan calls for this division of funds: 50 percent federal, 25 percent state and 25 percent from the local sales tax. Tuesday's federal rating was a huge victory because it locks in a guarantee that Florida will finance its $228 million share of the project, Transit lobbyist Lyn Harris said.

The sales tax clearly boosted the project's rating in several financial sub-categories. FTA analysts gave the project its lowest marks for a comparatively meager population density within a half-mile of the corridor and transit's debt load.

The next hurdle in the complicated federal funding process is the highest. Transit will submit another application in November asking the FTA for permission to enter into final design.
A final design commitment from the FTA means the federal agency is prepared to negotiate a long-term financial package to cover its $547 million share of the land-acquisition, construction and capital start-up costs for the rail line.

If Miami-Dade wins final design approval next February, transit officials optimistically estimate the North Corridor could be open for business in 2012.
But the competition is incredibly steep. Miami-Dade is competing with dozens of other cities harboring multibillion-dollar mass-transit dreams, and the funds are limited.

The 2007 federal budget includes $1.5 billion for 23 mass-transit rail projects that previously have been selected and five new ones announced Tuesday in Washington.

The latest winners include two rail projects in metropolitan Portland, Ore., and one each in Dallas, Denver and Salt Lake City.
All five received overall ''medium'' ratings just like the North Corridor.

step in the right direction...

Neither the East-West or North-South corridors are underground right? And do they have names/colours or are the just named E-W, N-S, becuase that's tacky?

neither are underground and no official colors assigned yet... tho i have seen the north as orange and the east-west as green in a few things... the color will probably be the name when theyr done..

It'll be interesting to see whether they build the connection between the MIC line and the northern extension as crossovers (like New York and Chicago) or flyovers (like Atlanta and DC), and whether they'll build them to only support nonstop travel over one route (merging from mic to eastbound towards downtown, breaking away to mic from westbound from downtown) or both possible directions (also merging from mic into northbound and breaking away towards mic from southbound, kind of like the interchange at NW 138th Street and I-75). Ditto for the northern part... whether they'll build it to allow uninterrupted travel by an east/southbound train coming from Doral/Hialeah to merge and continue north to the stadium, and for a train coming south from the stadium to merge and continue west towards Hialeah, or whether they'll only support northbound trains breaking off and continuing north to the stadium, and trains coming south from the stadium only merging and continuing south.

My guess is that if the feds pay, they'll go the whole 9 yards and build flyovers for the track itself allowing total mobility in all directions at merge points... but if the feds bail, they'll probably still go with track flyovers, but only support uninterrupted movements in one specific direction (leaving the door open for a future project to build two more flyovers).

I remember seeing the plans that showed full options of going east/north/west from the MIC/West line.

We should be able to have 3 trains leaving from Dadeland - one to FIU, one to County Line and one to the Palmetto.

I don't recall where I saw this and whether it was just a proposal or not. So take it with whatever grains of salt you'd like.

Here's the pictures I saw that AessoTariq posted in this Urbanplanet thread: http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7751&st=160

I hope he doesn't mind me reposting them.

http://img231.echo.cx/img231/9171/micehover27thavenue2wk.jpg

http://img28.echo.cx/img28/968/micehover32ndave6lz.jpg

http://img296.echo.cx/img296/7369/earlingtonheights16ks.jpg

http://img296.echo.cx/img296/309/earlingtonheights20hs.jpg

What ever happened to AessoTariq?

So you're going to have to switch from the northern line onto the central line right? Or western line onto the central line? And the E-W corridor will continue until reaching Earlington Heights station right? You're not going to have to switch trains at the MIC. Because the drawings that samsonyuen posted, shows them as two seperate lines.

and looks like theyre employing the medians of streets alot...