Should the five district councils sell Leeds Bradford International airport?

nice effort to keep the thread count up ;)
And yes, I think they should, especially if £100m can be made. What do you think, you have the most knowledge of the airport and probably how it would best benefit!

This is no WUM, but I'm guessing the only two possible buyers would be BAA or Manchester Airport Group (who currently own several other smaller airports such as Humberside and Southampton around the country).

I'd guess some people over there would go mental if the profits that Leeds/Bradford made ended up being ploughed into Greater Manchester (since the 10 councils own the Manc Airports Group).

This is no WUM, but I'm guessing the only two possible buyers would be BAA or Manchester Airport Group (who currently own several other smaller airports such as Humberside and Southampton around the country).

I'd guess some people over there would go mental if the profits that Leeds/Bradford made ended up being ploughed into Greater Manchester (since the 10 councils own the Manc Airports Group).

Very good point there Metrolink People really don't understand what is involved. It is natural to want to 'grab the money and run', but would this really benifit Leeds?

I have mixed fealings on this, I don't believe that the MAG group have the buying power for this. It is expected that the airport could be sold for as much as 100m but the airport needs a ferther 100m spending on new facilities including runway reserfacing, new taxiways to facilitate its growth, more apron space, link roads etc. Any offers MUST include provision for its development.

Although I want to see money put back into the airports development, I don't see why the profits should be used from any sale to do this, it would leave any new private owner to reap the rewards.

If the money were to be used to improve the Leeds Ring Road, incorparating a new link road to the airport. This would help a private company expand there. I feel this would be beneficial to all.

Your new ring road may increase passenger numbers, which in turn could increase profits, which would be of no benifit to the people of Leeds, but would be for the people of Manchester.

Your new ring road may increase passenger numbers, which in turn could increase profits, which would be of no benifit to the people of Leeds, but would be for the people of Manchester.

Metrolink, as I have said in other posts, the Manchester Airport Group have not managed to find the capital to expand its other airports. NEMA needs a new terminal and I understand the MAGroup are not willing to pay for a BRAND NEW terminal and they're trying to patch up the old one? (please correct me if I am wrong)

If the MAGroup did buy the airport and invest in it it would still bring money to Leeds in the way of inward investment. So it would still benefit Leeds in that way.

If it was Manchester Airport taking it over, I'd say don;t do it. If it was BAA I'd say yes. Southampton is owned by BAA btw, not Manchester Airport Group. There is room for 2 large airports in the north, if Leeds got the investment it certainly would be well on its way as it is supported by 2 large cities. I doubt anyone else would look into buying it but then maybe... have to see what happens.

Also, I voted to go to airport development rather than Supertram because I think if the airprot became larger, it would put a stronger case forward for supertram, but on the other hand, maybe it would be better to go to Supertram and just keep getting more flights and fill up the maximum capacity of the airport first...

When you put something up for sale you can hardly say that you'll only sell to one bidder - you'll hardly get a good price for whatever you are saying.

Also, the choice to sell the airport, and then use the money on improving the airport seems very bizarre, surely, if you sel something to someone else, it is up to them to spend the money on the airport - they own it now after all.

The scenario where the money spent on buying the airport would go into developing the airport would simply mean the amount the companies were going to invest in the airport would be in the value that they bid for the company, and in the end, there would be no actual 'profit' by the seller.

Well whatever happens, I don't want Manchester Airprot Group to take it over- all their airports have experienced little growth since they were bought. At least BAA have the money to put into it... Who owns Liverpool John Lennon and Durham Tees Valley?

No question LBIA would be in a much better financial situation to take advantage of major developments if it were sold. Lets not forget that the 5 local authorities would keep 49% of the airports sharing still taking advantage of the airports growth.

The qicker this is done the better the chances of LBIA competing with the other large regional airports, and keep ahead of Robin Hood which is growing at a fast pace.

Liverpool is owned by Peel Holdings (they own loads of land that they develop in the north west, they also own the Trafford Centre).

MAG own Bournemouth (no idea how well they do), Nottingham (doing very well) and Humberside (again, not idea how well they do).

Actually Bournemouth are expecting 100% growth in 2005 - not bad....

http://www.flybournemouth.com/news/article.php?id=31&title=passenger-numbers-set-to-double-in-2005&pageno=1

No1 - I suspect you have more fears over the word Manchester, rather than any fears that they would not make a success of it.

Humberside isn't doing very well at all, neither is Borunemouth. If you ask me, I think we'll see the death of Humberside as Robin Hood grows. Metrolink, read my signature. Before I came here I didnt hate Manchester, and to be honest I still don't but with people saying things like that it brings it on themselves... I like many things in Manchester, just as I do Leeds, I have nothing particularly against it but people seem to complain just because I state a fact that the census says Leeds has 715,402 people and Manchester has 400,000 or whatever... If you want to talk to me bout this please PM me or put it in another thread, I don't wanna mess this thread up. And by the way, Im in a good mood and have been since last sunday :)

Bournemouth isn't doing very well????

100% growth not very well?

Big growth over last 4 years as well...

http://www.bournemouth.gov.uk/Residents/Research_Information/Abstract_of_Statistics/Transport/Abstract_Airport_Data.asp

P.S. Not wanting to start a discussion about your likes and dislikes, but do you remember the poll when you were meant to pick your favorite 5 cities, you picked everyone but Manchester? Strange behaviour.

P.P.S. read any post on this forum and I will not have said 'I hate Manchester' anywhere but some people have said 'you hate Manchester'. In other words you bring it on yourselves

Touche - read other peoples posts, I don't think anyone has ever said you've posted that you hate Manchester, you're much more subtle than that.

If MAG buy LBIA they could re-name it Manchester West Yorkshire International Airport?

Either that or 'Manchester East Airport'.
:)

OK, go to 'Why everyone hates and/or loves Leeds No.1' on the skybar Metrolink.

I don't think any name change is needed for Leeds Bradford, I think it needs to have Leeds in its name somewhere. It could be Leeds Bradford WY Intl. In a smilar way to Doncaster Sheffield RH Airprot...

Never been in the Skybar No1 - you never did explain your actions when you voted for every city but Manchester - now is your chance - fire away.

P.S. We're joking about the name change.

Yes I know!
Well go in the skybar, I'm not ruining this thread.

For the record L No.1, you asked who owned LJLA (a rapidly growing airport btw). Well it's Peel Holdings. I don't think you would want them to buy your airport........it's a Manchester-based company...... :D

I'm not really bothered where they're based but JLA has done well

Looks like the majority of people so far do want the airport to be sold off, but we're all split on what to spend the money on.

I believve there could be many other potential suitors for LBIA. BAA and MAG are obviously up there, but many other airport groups are looking to expand throughout Europe. I would agree that BAA would be the best option due to their agressive approach with the airports they already own. The investments they have made in Southampton and Stansted have been very impressive with great results.

Whoever buys the airport, should look at the space for development. With the right vision the airport could develop exceptionally quickly. Building a brand new termainal 200 yards back would be a start to allow expansion of the apron.

Sell the airport and use the money for a new Motorway linking LBIA to the M62 to the south and the A1 to the East, completing an Orbital Motorway for Leeds, which would attract massive investment and increase passenger numbers, which would also boost the economy. Use the change (if there is any - I've not bought a motorway recently) to put a train station at the Airport...

Motorway costs about £10m / mile - you'll get 4miles worth it you sell the airport for the predicted £40m.

why sell it? if it has the potentail to make a big profit in the future we should hold on to it instead of scraping in money now and selling it off..

Motorway costs about - it will only incres£10m / mile - you'll get 4miles worth it you sell the airport for the predicted £40m.

Maybe, but perhaps a good dual carriageway road would be of tremendous help.
Moreover, any company purchasing the airport may be only too ready to contribute financially to such a road - it could only help to improve business.

Bradford would also get £40Mil I believe - I'm sure they would like a new Motorway to the Airport from the M62 to the South, which would be as beneficial to Bradford as it would Leeds. So thats 8 Miles... How far from the Airport to the M62 South? I'm sure the new owners might chip-in too, not to mention private/public like the A1/M1 link..

Bradford would also get £40Mil I believe - I'm sure they would like a new Motorway to the Airport from the M62 to the South, which would be as beneficial to Bradford as it would Leeds. So thats 8 Miles... How far from the Airport to the M62 South? I'm sure the new owners might chip-in too, not to mention private/public like the A1/M1 link..


I may be wrong but I think £40 million was quoted as the total price (and even at that low price I made my comment eaerlier that it would probably give a better return for the current owners to sell off and to stick the proceeds in the bank) so that Leeds would get less than half of that - not much to set aside Supertram.
Whereas good approach roads will benefit Leeds, Bradford and the other WY towns that currently contribute to the airport.

Sell the airport and use the money for a new Motorway linking LBIA to the M62 to the south and the A1 to the East, completing an Orbital Motorway for Leeds, which would attract massive investment and increase passenger numbers, which would also boost the economy. Use the change (if there is any - I've not bought a motorway recently) to put a train station at the Airport...

A new station is already been looked at. Its estimated cost is said to be as much as 100m.

Interesting to see the 'sell, the total money raised should go to supertram' in the lead. Yet it is probably a fact that the airport would attract far more inward investment to the city and the region than the supertram and yet the airport must be at the top of the underinvestment league. I would love to see the supertram come to Leeds, but supertram is only a small part of what is needed for our city.

*ROADS, Very low grade city ring road.
*AIRPORT, Poor, outdated terminal facilities at the citys airport.
*BUSSES, Lack of high frequency bus routes to the North West of Leeds.
*CARS, No effective park-and-ride schemes.
*CAR PARKS, Lack of car parking at stations in the suburbs.
*RAILWAYS, Insufficiant rolling stock to cope with increases in passengers.
*SUPERTRAM, lack of government commitment.

Why is it that transport system in Leeds is so underfunded?

I have no idea, but I can tell you that West Yorkshire is £200m underfunded in transport by the government, and therefore has the lowest amount of funding of anywhere in the UK. Tbh the only improvements seen are actual building improvements, but the real important stuff like train and bus frequencies are not tackled, and probably not the fault of Metro or First.

No1 - the vast majority of funding to Metro comes through levies on the local councils, if Metro has less money compared to other cities to spend, then other PTA's are setting higher levies on their councils.

Comparing http://www.wypta.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/B9F270DE-364B-4AC3-82EB-E891DCC7F3F7/0/PTAAccts200304.pdf

and http://www.gmpte.com/content.cfm?subcategory_id=103081

although they are different years, the numbers (per head of population) seem very similar in terms of rail and bus grants from central goevrnment.

Maybe the WYPTA don't set high enough levies on their local tax payers?

In fact, reading that, the levy on the GM councils raised £113.62 (year ending March 2005), the previous year, the levy on the WY councils was £60m (I cannot find figures for the same year).

I'd suggest the gap in funding is not from central government, but rather your local councils are not raising as much from local tax payers.

No1 - out of interest, where did you get the figure of WY being underfunded by £200m (per year????), I'd like to see where on earth this fugure has come from.

Its a well known fact that is stated in practically every article that is about the supertram.

It may be a well known fact, but I think it is totally wrong.

The total budget for the whole of Greater Manchester is only £192.18m for 2005/06.

Does it refer to £200m a year??? Ever???

Compared to what, the national average? The average public transport spend in Switzerland?

Personally, I don't just believe the spin provided by any organisation trying to make a specific point, I'd suggest this is just that, spin.

Have you read those links I posted? They show the extra spend on public transport in Greater Manchester is down to the higher levies placed on the local councils, do your Supertram articles refer to this in the funding gap?


Could you post a link (direct to a specific article) so I can have a read of what context it is being written, I think you may have been suckered into some very badly done spin.

No1 - I presume you mean the http://www.wymetro.com/ProjectsAndPlans/Supertram.htm page.

Firstly, it says

As recently reported by Yorkshire & Humber Regional Assembly, this region already suffers, annually, from £200m of underfunding on transport,

This does not say Leeds, or even West Yorkshire is underfunded, but the whole of Yorkshire and Humberside.

It continues

making it the most poorly financed region in the country and the poor relation of the London area,

It does not mention where this funding is coming from to cause the differential in funding.

I'd suggest they are being extremely liberal with the truth here, as my links show, the funding difference between Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire it totally down to local decisions by local authorities.

The last line...

poor relation of the London area, where average annual Government spending on transport is over £1.2bn.

is very misleading, at no point have they described how much Leeds (or WY or Yorks) gets in funding from central government.

This is a terrible article, it does nothing to inform the reader how local transport in Yorks is funded compared to other regions, it simply gives 'spin' that quite frankly doesn't represent the whole truth.

P.S. I see where you get the Leeds is the largest city in Europe without a light rail or Metro system. line from now, again spin, read between the lines No1.

P.P.S. If you ever want an example of how 'political boundaries' are pointless when comparing a cities infrastructure needs have a look at the bottom of that page.

P.P.P.S. From reading some peoples responses I'm starting to get the impression that the local media in Leeds (YP especially) often has a similar 'spin', i.e. not always comparing like with like, and putting a totally pro-Leeds spin on something, that when you delve a little deeper you realise is not as was first presented.

I'd suggest (although it is very long and you may say boring - it is highly informative) a read of http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/09.htm the commision for integrated transports report on medium sized european cities funding of public transport.

It is much more 'reliable' than the source that you had supplied.

Table 9.5 does indeed show Leeds to be very low on public transport and road funding, however, I'd suggest this difference is due to the lower taxes levied by the local councils.

If you want the 'world cities' are compared http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/07.htm

Large cities at
http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/08.htm

Medium cities at
http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/09.htm

Small cities at
http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/10.htm

In fact, if you want to compare table 9.12 in http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/09.htm

Leeds 34%
Edinburgh 20%
Bristol 18%
Newcastle 14%

with 7.15 in http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/07.htm

London 25%

and 8.13 in http://www.cfit.gov.uk/research/ebp/stage1/08.htm

Glasgow 27%
Manchester 22%


it could be argued that the people of Leeds are getting a very good deal since the public transport is being subsidised to a much greater expent than elsewhere, where the money has to come from commercial revenue.

(Not saying I agree with that, but if it were the other way around I'm sure there would be an article on leedssupertram.co.uk bemoaning the fact).

TAKEN FROM THE LETTERS TO THE EDITOR YEP 11 NOVEMBER 2005

LET'S CELEBRATE OUR AIRPORT SUCCESS STORY

I and my colleagues at Jet2.com have followed with interest the ongoing debate in the YEP over the current and future ownership of Leeds Bradford Airport.

We believe Leeds Bradford Airport is a Yorkshire success story and that success is very much down to the airport's management team and the support they receive from the owning councils. When we first considered launching Jet2.com, we spent a great deal of time assessing various airports throughout Europe in the search for our first base. We chose Leeds Bradford because it was already a growing regional airport, with a great catchment area and above all a management team, led by Ed Anderson, who very much wanted to support and encourage airlines to start services and base aircraft at their airport.

Three years after the launch of Jet2.com, we now offer frequent services to 18 destinations, from our new, dedicated check-in facility and we will shortly be announcing more, including Milan. Other airlines, such as British Midland, Eastern Airways and Air South West, also continue to grow at Leeds Bradford and the airport is now able to offer the people of Yorkshire over 50 business and leisure destinations that many other regional airports would relish.

At Jet2.com, we think the airport's in pretty good shape and has the fecilities to rival any other regional airport in Europe. What's needed to encourage airlines to launch further services is not only investment in the airport itself, but investment in promoting the region. Whilst flights to Alicante or Malaga can be operated successfully with UK-based passengers, services to destinations in countries such as Germany or Scandinavia are very much reliant on bringing an equal number of overseas passengers to the UK.

If the people of Yorkshire want more air services, then there's a definate need to raise the national and international profile of the region. New initiatives such as Marketing Leeds and Bradford Centre Regeneration are a start, but much more needs to be done, and quickly.

Let's stop knocking Leeds Bradford and celebrate it for what it is, a great regional airport.

Whatever the future ownership of the airport may be, let's not waste our energy on debating what private investment may or may not bring, let's use all our energy in shouting about Yorkshire and encouraging people to fly here! This is the real basis for expansion.

Philip Meeson, Chief Executive, Jet2.com

...apparently Friday 18th Nov is decider day for Leeds City Council. So hopefully we'll know more about the fate of the airport later today possibly.

Living in the future there, its still yesterday! I really don't know which would be better, just hope the council pick which would be the most succesful!

So is looks like most people would prefer any money raised from the potential sale of the airport to fund a supertram option. Is this really still an option or is it too late?

Council considers airport sale
Members of Leeds City Council are to discuss a plan to sell all or part of their 40% stake in Leeds-Bradford Airport on Friday.
The move could net the city millions of pounds.

The airport is currently owned by five local authorities including Leeds - Bradford, Wakefield, Calderdale and Kirklees councils.

Andrew Carter, leader of Leeds City Council, said the other councils will reveal their position shortly.

'Successful airport'

A spokesman for the airport said: "The sale of the airport is purely a matter for the shareholders.

"Leeds-Bradford is an extremely successful airport, with seven new scheduled services and six new charter services due to commence this year.

"Our success will continue whatever the future ownership."

The airport currently serves 60 direct destinations and was used by more than 2.5 million passengers in 2005.