Today's article( Cho sun ilbo )

서울시 "제2 롯데월드 법적문제 없다"

사업 본격 추진 여부 주목
서울=연합뉴스

입력 : 2005.10.30 20:34 47'


112층, 555m 높이의 잠실 제2롯데월드 사업에 대해 서울시가 “법적 문제가 없다”는 내부 결론을 내려 그 추진 여부가 주목된다.
30일 서울시에 따르면 시는 최근 제2롯데월드 사업에 대한 법률 검토를 진행한 결과 “제2롯데월드에 대한 공군의 반대가 법적 구속력이 없다”는 결론을 내렸다.

시 관계자는 “제2롯데월드 지역이 항공기지법상 비행안전구역에 포함되지 않으며, 공군측이 밝힌 초고층화 반대 의견도 ‘법적 효력이 없는 단순 참고사항에 지나지 않는다’는 결론을 내렸다”고 밝혔다.

이에 따라 이르면 다음달 열리는 교통심의위원회에서 제2롯데월드의 교통영향평가가 통과되면, 시는 다음 절차인 도시건축공동위원회에 이같은 의견을 전달할 방침이다.

만약 도시건축공동위원회에서 심의가 통과되면 지구단위계획 변경과 건축 심의등을 거쳐 제2롯데월드의 인허가가 내려지게 된다.

하지만 서울시의 의도대로 제2롯데월드 추진이 가능해질지는 전적으로 도시건축공동위원회 심의 결과에 달려 있어 그 결과가 주목된다.

공군은 “제2롯데월드가 555m까지 올라가면 건물이 군용기 항로보다 훨씬 높은 곳에 위치하게 돼 사고 위험이 있다”며 사업을 반대하고 있으며, 도시건축공동위원회가 공군측 의견을 채택하면 사업 추진은 불가능해진다.

제2롯데월드는 잠실 롯데월드 맞은편에 백화점, 호텔, 사무실 등이 복합된 초고층 건물을 짓는 사업으로, 1994년부터 추진됐으나 공군 등의 반대로 그동안 사업이 지연됐었다.

article (http://www.chosun.com/national/news/200510/200510300227.htmlhttp://)

New Renderings
(Height : unknown- 555m? , carring out foundation work already)

1.
http://dc2.donga.com/zero/data/building/72342_12339_1.jpg

2.
http://dc2.donga.com/zero/data/building/72342_123311_0.jpg

Read this article
한국경제신문 (http://www.hankyung.com/cgi-bin/kisaview.cgi?NewsID=2005103015851&Date=200510&Cid=0&Sid=10140202//)

Is this really a go ahead for this project?
I am VERY VERY happy tht they changed the design....
anything is better than the Eiffel tower look-alike.. !

Wow!! You are the best citypia!

Apart from the futuristic part of design, it looks quite stable too. I love it :cheers:

New Renderings
(Height : unknown- 555m? , carring out foundation work already)

1.
http://dc2.donga.com/zero/data/building/72342_12339_1.jpg

2.
http://dc2.donga.com/zero/data/building/72342_123311_0.jpg

Heck yes! Love the 2nd design looks a bit like the IBC though.

The proposed design looks pretty cool ok. The only thing that bothers me is that there is no other super skyscraper in the area. It'll be the ONLY one..

Citypia if you live in seoul, can you take a picture of the ground work? :)

sounds great :)

Damn. Why don't they build all these super towers in one area? :)

It seems all the tall towers are built spread across the whole area.

i guess it gives them the "landmark" feel :)

and i thaught the residential low-rises in that area were going to be redeveloped..:?

I prefer the first one on the top. What do you guys think?

Now, that's a VAST improvement from the previous Eifel Tower crap!

However, this passage worries me:

롯데는 또 교통량 자체를 줄이기 위해 실내 테마파크 건립을 백지화하고 호텔 객실 수도 700실에서 300실 규모로 줄이는 방안도 추진 중이다. 롯데 관계자는 "건축 연면적을 당초 계획보다 2000여평 이상 줄이고 용적률도 허용치(800%)의 절반인 400% 수준으로 낮췄다"고 말했다.

So does this reduction in vertical area come from cancellation of a theme park, or does would this mean a height reduction?

I prefer the first one on the top. What do you guys think?
^^ I second that. Looks really unique

YESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DESIGN CHANGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
now i can wholeheartedly support this project :)

It would look better if the commie blocks in the Jamsil area are redeveloped into office towers like Gangnam.... still the tower is impressive

I prefer the first one on the top. What do you guys think?
me too :) but id be damn happy if the other one was built too :)

btw, both towers sort of look like the Grollo Tower which was proposed of Melbourne, but couldnt get built..

the whole commie blocks around the planned land are supposed to be under massive redevelopment, BUT this current left wing government simply won't approve it along with many other redevelopment projects along the river because they don't want the real estate market in gangnam/seocho/songpa areas in seoul to over-heat, which is BULLSHIT, we all know.

Citypia if you live in seoul, can you take a picture of the ground work? :)

You mean construction has already started?

You mean construction has already started?
:lol: this projects only been around for a decade :D

the whole commie blocks around the planned land are supposed to be under massive redevelopment, BUT this current left wing government simply won't approve it along with many other redevelopment projects along the river because they don't want the real estate market in gangnam/seocho/songpa areas in seoul to over-heat, which is BULLSHIT, we all know.

Then, who initiated the new town projects? And is Seoul Metropolitan governed by the central government of ROK? Muhyuni-ga Mangbagi?

Gangnam's real estate prices are high because of its better infrastructure such as good roads and schools. Roh's real estate policies were only good as temporary solutions, and it had a lot of adverse side-effects like the exodus of domestic capital to international real estate markets. Myungbak is the one who's truly working to curtail the real estate climbs by making Gangbuk as desirable as Gangnam, if not any better. This means more supply of quality urban environment and less demand for Gangnam, ultimately leading to decrease of Gangnam's real estate prices without socialistic government intervention.

:lol: this projects only been around for a decade :D

I know that... are you telling me the construction of it has already started or it's just one of the many approved/proposed projects?

Someone mentioned that groundwork has started :)

U/C pictures. No progress....yet!

Pictures taken by 섬타임 from Daum Cafe.

http://www.neofoto.co.kr/poto2/puyopuyo/252333/151.jpg
http://www.neofoto.co.kr/poto2/puyopuyo/252333/152.jpg

U/C pictures(6/11/2005), All photos by me

" FOUNDATION WORK ONLY" is carrying out right now(Lotte can lay the foundation work since they already got approved 36-storey tower at that very site)

Carrying out ground-making first,
Get approval afterwards
That's lotte's strategy

Anyway, the standard value of real estate in those area have sky-rocketed

Lotte put blocking fences around construction site,fencing off from outsiders
http://i.photo.empas.com/kimilsik/kimilsik_21/sp/374/%B7%D4%B5%A5%B4%E3%C0%E51.jpg


http://i.photo.empas.com/kimilsik/kimilsik_21/sp/375/%B7%D4%B5%A5%B4%E3%C0%E52.jpg

But I tried to break into Lotte's construction site to see what is happenning there in person, pretending to be lost
But unfortunately, the guard came out to keep a check on me as soon as I was entering the site.
So I couldn't produce much works worth mentioning
On the right side of this picture, there is huge hole that filled with steel frames
http://i.photo.empas.com/kimilsik/kimilsik_21/sp/371/%B7%D4%B5%A5%B0%F8%BB%E71.jpg

Making good my retreat, I took photos secretly, elude the vigilance(I'm sorry Mr. Lotte guard, I had to do this under unavoidable circumstances)
http://i.photo.empas.com/kimilsik/kimilsik_21/sp/373/%B7%D4%B5%A5%B0%F8%BB%E7.jpg

This picture was taken through the crevice of the joint between two fences
Lotte's foundation work is hugely making headway.
http://i.photo.empas.com/kimilsik/kimilsik_21/sp/372/%B7%D4%B5%A5%B0%F8%BB%E72.jpg

i still dont get a clear picture of the situation, but i really appreciate your work :D

seoul has two skylines.. so maybe this building will start the third.. :D!!

Can anyone tell me which one of the 2 designs it will get. I want to draw it for the diagram!

seoul has two skylines.. so maybe this building will start the third.. :D!!
Seoul has alot of skyline, so this will be just one of them :cheers:

Can anyone tell me which one of the 2 designs it will get. I want to draw it for the diagram!
its neither :)

^^ Citypia, you're a hero! :applause:

Are you sure? Where have you heard that?
its neither :)

i heard someone say it b4, but i dont think anyone on this forums really knows..

Are you sure? Where have you heard that?
I am sure and I can't say it

^ how do/would you know?

check pm sunni :)

There was proposal of building lotte world in Tokyo, Japan but the talks was desolved for some reason.. too bad..

Some pics I found (Not sure how old it is)

http://jennyhouse.info/zboard/data/sky_Image/1132204161/DSCN0378.jpg

http://jennyhouse.info/skyline/korea/seoul/11.jpg

anyone who live in Seoul should make construction Photos of the site!!!

Korean government to positively reconsider the Lotte Tower II, and seek an acceptable alternative for both Lotte and the ROK Air Force.

제2롯데월드 `신격호 회장의 꿈` 14년만에 이뤄지다
이데일리

롯데그룹 신격호 회장의 평생 숙원사업이 이뤄졌다.

정부는 18일 제2단계 기업환경 개선 추진계획을 통해 서울 잠실 제2롯데월드 건설을 승인하기 위한 군용기 항로 조정 등의 실현가능한 대안을 적극 검토키로 했다.

구본진 기획재정부 정책조정국장은 "서울공항의 필요성까지 고려해서 양자(롯데그룹-군)가 윈윈할 수 있는 합리적인 대안을 모색하고 있다"고 말했다.

이에 따라 롯데그룹이 1994년부터 추진해온 112층 잠실 제2롯데월드 건설이 결실을 맺게 됐다.

롯데그룹은 오너인 신격호 회장이 "한국에 세계적인 랜드마크 타워를 건설하겠다"는 의지에 따라 지난 1988년 1월 송파구 신천동 29번지 일대 8만7603.7㎡(2만6500평)을 서울시로부터 사들였다.

1994년 비행안전국역 초고층 가능여부 질의로 시작된 이 사업은 지난 1995년 송파구에 최초로 높이 402m, 100층 건립계획안을 제출했으나 성남 서울공항과 교통난 등 반대 여론에 밀려 사업은 좌절됐다. 이후 98년 지하 5층, 지상 36층의 건축허가를 송파구청으로부터 받는 데 그쳤다.

하지만 신격호 회장이 세계 최고층 빌딩을 짓겠다는 방침이 다시 세워지면서 롯데그룹은 2002년 9월 112층 규모의 빌딩 건립안을 송파구에 제출했다.

이후 서울시가 건축허가를 긍정적으로 검토하겠다는 입장을 밝히면서 사업 추진은 급물살을 탔고 결국 작년 2월 서울시 도시건축공동위원회가 지상 112층, 지하5층의 제2 롯데월드 건립계획을 통과시키면서 사업은 본 궤도에 오르는 듯 했다.

당시 롯데그룹은 제2롯데월드가 완공되면 관광객이 20∼30% 증가할 것으로 보고, 연간 150만명 이상의 외국 관광객이 방문하는 기존 롯데월드와 연계해 세계적인 관광 타운으로 만들 수 있다는 논리로 서울시의 허가를 이끌어냈었다.

하지만 공군이 제2롯데월드가 들어설 경우 성남공항 항공기 안전성에 심각한 문제가 발생할 수 있다며 반대, 건설교통부 행정자치부 서울시 국무총리 등이 참석한 행정협의조정위원회로 넘어갔고 결국 작년 7월 26일 최종 불허 방침이 내려졌었다.

그러나 제2롯데월드 건립을 지지해온 이명박대통령이 신축 허용 검토를 시사했고, 군당국과의 협의를 거쳐 최종 허용하는 쪽으로 결론이 내려졌다.

◇제2롯데월드 추진 경과

▲ 1994. 5.26 비행안전구역 바깥에 초고층 가능여부 질의 (롯데 → 서울시)

▲ 1994. 7.21 회신공문 접수 (서울시 → 롯데)

- 비행안전구역 밖에 위치한 부지는 군용항공기지법상 해당사항 없다는 공군 의견 회신

▲ 1995.11.30 도시설계안 송파구 제출 : 100층, 높이 402m

▲ 1996. 7. 4 송파구로부터 유관기관(공군) 협의결과 공문접수

- 비행안전구역 내는 해발 137m, 인접대지는 해발 164.5m 까지 건축에 동의

▲ 1998. 5.19 건축허가 취득 36층, 건물높이 143m

▲ 2001. 3. 3 공군고시 (공군 제3368부대 고시 제 2001-1호)

고시내용 : 서울공항의 비행안전구역 및 각 구역별 건축물 등의 제한높이

▲ 2003. 9 ~ 2004. 1 미연방항공청에 기술 자문

▲ 2004.10.26 지구단위계획 변경(안) 송파구에 제출

- 지상 112층, 지하5층 / 524m(첨탑포함 555m)

▲ 2005. 1 송파구청, 제2롯데월드 지구단위계획 변경안 서울시에 제출

▲ 2005.12 서울시 교통영향 심의위원회 협의 완료 (심의필)

▲ 2006. 2 지구단위계획 변경안 서울시 도시건축공동위원회 심의 가결

▲ 2006. 4. 3 건축계획심의 신청

▲ 2006. 5.22 국방부(공군) 행정협의조정 신청

▲ 2006. 6. 7 건축허가관련 절차 유보 (행정협의조정위원회 요청에 의거)

▲ 2006. 7.27 행정협의조정위원회 개최 (공군요청 비행안전영향평가 용역실시 결정)

▲ 2006.10 ~ 2007. 2 비행안전영향평가 용역 실시

▲ 2007. 5.22 행정협의조정위원회 실무위원회 개최

▲ 2007.7.26 행정협의조정위원회 제2롯데월드 건립 원한 불허

▲ 2008. 4월 서울시 112층 제외한 9개동 신축계획안 조건부 가결

▲ 2008. 9.18 정부 제2롯데월드 건축 사실상 허용

http://news.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/09/18/2008091800865.html

Gangnam's real estate prices are high because of its better infrastructure such as good roads and schools. Roh's real estate policies were only good as temporary solutions, and it had a lot of adverse side-effects like the exodus of domestic capital to international real estate markets. Myungbak is the one who's truly working to curtail the real estate climbs by making Gangbuk as desirable as Gangnam, if not any better. This means more supply of quality urban environment and less demand for Gangnam, ultimately leading to decrease of Gangnam's real estate prices without socialistic government intervention.

Jamsil isn't in Gangnam, it's in Songpa.

I was watching MBC news earlier this evening and there was a segment about talks between Lotte and the Korean air force and it seems that the air force is going to change it's flight path so it doesn't go near Jamsil. ^^
It looks as though there's life in this project after all! (Fingers crossed)

Lotte is pushing for the project with strong backing from the current administration. However, I personally hope that they just build this tower elsewhere, because safety concerns do seem legit.

What exactly are these safety concerns? Are they from the ROK air force? I rarely see air traffic in the area.

What exactly are these safety concerns? Are they from the ROK air force? I rarely see air traffic in the area.

The safety concern is that the new tower will be dangerously close to flight patch entering the airport.

http://file.dailian.co.kr/news/200901/news1232074480_142319_2_m.jpg

The airport is important militarily, especially in time of war.

This is why the ROK air force has agreed to change it's flight path!

This is why the ROK air force has agreed to change it's flight path!

Don't you mean the runway?

BTW, the Seoul mayor just announced plans to lift height restrictions on Jamsil, which means Lotteworld 2 won't be the only skyscraper that the ROK Air Force will have to deal with.

Lotte agreed to pay for the rerouting of the flight path. They've been waiting to build this tower for a long time and they are running out of time.

What not change/repave the runway? That would be a much more feasible plan than removing the highrise plan altogether or changing airpaths

They are changing the direction of the runway at Lotte's expense. Seoul Metropolitan Government just announced plans to allow a bunch of skyscrapers around the area that Lotte World II is getting built, so I guess the ROK Air Force is on the losing side.

Approved today!

From the Korea Times:

"Lotte’s Skyscraper Plan Approved, but Concern Lingers


By Kim Tong-hyung
Staff Reporter

The Lotte Group's plan to erect a 112-story building in southern Seoul was given the final go-ahead Tuesday, inviting criticism from all sides.

Lotte's new trophy tower will be 555 meters in height, according to the plan, which took Lotte's aging Chairman Shin Kyuk-ho 15 years to see through.

Some military and aviation officials have raised concerns that the building will be too close to Seoul Airport in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province, which currently doubles as a military airbase. Residents living in the path of the air route are also up in arms.

The two sites are located about six kilometers apart, and according to the worst-case scenario, aircraft approaching the airport would be in danger of crashing into the skyscraper.

However, in approving the plan, a joint committee of government officials and civilian experts downplayed the safety concerns, saying that the danger could be easily avoided by adjusting the direction of the airport's eastside runway 3 degrees to the east.

The same committee had rejected Lotte's previous request in July 2007.

``On the condition that Lotte honors its agreement with the Air Force on issues over Seoul Airport's operations and aviation safety, we withdraw our 2007 decision,'' said Cho Won-dong, a senior official of the Office of the Prime Minister.

Lotte and the Air Force have recently reached a tentative agreement over financing the reconstruction of the airport's runway and relocating a squadron of KA-1 light fighters to another airbase in Wonju, Gangwon Province.

Construction is to start in the later half of the year for completion by 2014.

The company will spend over one trillion won (about $716 million) over the five-year construction period, with the ambitious plan of creating ``2.5 million'' jobs per year during this period.

Upon completion, ``Lotte World No. 2'' will hire around 23,000 people and attract about 1.5 million foreign tourists, generating a yearly revenue of about $200 million, according to Lotte officials.

``Seoul needs its own landmark as we can't show Namdaemun and Gyeongbok Palace to tourists all the time,'' said a Lotte spokesman.

Aviation experts such as Hanyang University's Cho Jin-soo argue that adjusting the direction of the airport's runway is hardly a fundamental solution to the problem.

Statistics show that most aviation accidents occur shortly after takeoff and before landing, and planes flying into Seoul Airport from the north are about 280 meters above the ground when they pass the area around Lotte's planned skyscraper.

Although times may differ by aircraft type, it would take only 20 to 40 seconds for a plane to reach the 500-meter plus building after leaving Seoul Airport, Cho said.

And pilots flying into the airport will have a window of just 17 to 34 seconds to react if an aircraft wavers off its flight path and moves toward the building, he added.

``The new Lotte building is located as close to 1.2 kilometers from the flight-path for landings, but to ensure air safety, it must be at least three to four kilometers away,'' Cho said.

``Wake turbulence and clear air turbulence could create problems. And a 555-meter building that close to the flight-path would present a psychological threat for any pilot, and should an aircraft move beyond its flight-path due to mechanical problems or other factors, the results could be disastrous.''


Article here. http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2009/03/123_42337.html

any progress? anyone?

Is it already O/C?

and why there's no renders on this thread?

There are plenty of renders out there, so here are a couple. Just for you.

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/Albishton/2002774566127869119_rs.jpg

http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/Albishton/998LotteWorldTowerToBecomeSeoulsTal.jpg

This is an old design by SOM - they are not using this design anymore. Anyone have the new design images?

This is an old design by SOM - they are not using this design anymore. Anyone have the new design images?

Thank God for that. This design seems too simple and mundane. I hope they will come up with something more spectacular, unique and Korean.

This is an old design by SOM - they are not using this design anymore. Anyone have the new design images?

Then have you seen the new renders? The images on the SOM website suggest it is still this design. Also, I've heard no news of a redesign since these renders were released.

According to a Democrat lawmaker, Lotte Group has proposed a height extention to 123 floors to the local government.

http://news.joins.com/article/452/3813452.html?ctg=1104&cloc=home|list|list1


And they changed the design... again.

http://image.chosun.com/sitedata/image/200910/08/2009100801278_1.jpg

Sauron should be interested in renting the penthouse.

I really don't like this one. Blah. Who's the architect?

I really don't like this one. Blah. Who's the architect?

that architect is KPF.
www.kpf.com

This project has now been approved.(finally)

http://biz.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/06/22/2010062202116.html?Dep1=news&Dep2=headline2&Dep3=h2_01

What had happened? Why is it "finally" approved? It's been 2 years since the new design and the competition.

What had happened? Why is it "finally" approved? It's been 2 years since the new design and the competition.

But it hasn't been approved by the local government.

Wow. this is really cool. i didnt know what was going on with this tower so far but it has decided to build finally. this tower will be really coooool but i dont think this will be started in october because its been taking a long time so im worried about the tower. something problem might be able to happen again. i hope it will be built but im pretty not sure. Seoul is sort of changed as nice looking city but many people who just like me in korea, they've been wating for a loooooong time any towers that could be symbol of korea.

Are they going to held bungee jumping at Lotte World tower?

http://blogs.wsj.com/korearealtime/2010/11/25/lotte-begins-building-123-floor-tower-in-seoul/

Lotte Begins Building 123-Floor Tower in Seoul
By Evan Ramstad
For years, South Korean companies and government officials have been talking about building skyscrapers taller than 100 stories. Now, at long last, someone is doing it.

Lotte Group officially began construction on Wednesday of Lotte Super Tower in Seoul’s Jamsil neighborhood.

It’s been a long road to this point. Lotte Group bought the land 20 years ago, and they’ve been digging a big hole for the tower’s foundation for months. The final government approval — from a municipal district office — came two weeks ago. The project earlier required a nod from the national government and military because the big building is close to the landing and takeoff pattern of a small airport.

Lotte Group, which has businesses in packaged food products, retailing and entertainment, says the building will be 555 meters tall, or 1,281 feet, with 123 stories. That will make it the largest building in Korea and second-largest in the world after the Burj Khalifa in Dubai.

The building is one of a handful of 100-story-plus skyscrapers that have been dreamed up by South Korean businesses in recent years. Two others have been proposed for Seoul, one in Incheon and one in Busan.

None has gotten as far along as the Lotte Super Tower, however. The company says it aims to open the building in 2015.

South Korea’s yearning for a 100-story building alarms some people, however. Author Douglas Kim, in his recent book about Korean real estate and the economic downturn, “Vortex of the Korean Financial Crisis,” points out how often 100-story skyscrapers have been associated with financial troubles in a country, starting with the Empire State Building that was built in New York during the Great Depression.

http://online.wsj.com/media/lottesupertower_DV_20101125022246.jpg

^^ attractive, but I wonder what that cube-shaped building is for to the right of the tower.

^^ attractive, but I wonder what that cube-shaped building is for to the right of the tower.

It's a giant marshmallow :lol:

no i'm curious too.. im thinking it could be a shopping place...

anyone got information to this?

It's a giant marshmallow :lol:

no i'm curious too.. im thinking it could be a shopping place...

anyone got information to this?

below Refer to Related Homepage.

www.lottecorp.co.kr

It's a giant marshmallow :lol:

no i'm curious too.. im thinking it could be a shopping place...

anyone got information to this?

It could be a shopping mall or a hotel. BTW, right beside it is a large indoor themepark belonging to Lotte.

wow huge construction...
is it confirmed already?

According to a Democrat lawmaker, Lotte Group has proposed a height extention to 123 floors to the local government.

http://news.joins.com/article/452/3813452.html?ctg=1104&cloc=home|list|list1


And they changed the design... again.

http://image.chosun.com/sitedata/image/200910/08/2009100801278_1.jpg

Sauron should be interested in renting the penthouse.

LOL Would be cool to see the flaming eye staring down at seoulites from above "the tower of Sauron".

waiting for confirmed already. very very nice.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7420/dsc00814sf.jpg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/515/dsc00815zh.jpg

the design not surprise me but very tall that why the government hasn't approve ha ha.

the design not surprise me but very tall that why the government hasn't approve ha ha.

Hasn't approved :lol:?

I think you are new here, check this thread for daily updates:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=88457213

The construction has already started a year ago and the tower is growing now ;).

Can somebody please say what this Korean song is in this video of Seoul 1986?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfG8klnSS6k

Hasn't approved :lol:?

I think you are new here, check this thread for daily updates:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=88457213

The construction has already started a year ago and the tower is growing now ;).

oh sorry. that construction area right ? haha. :X

Yes, exactly mate. :)

Is it just me or are there a few discussions on different threads on this tower?