http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Flags/swiss-flag-30.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Flags/swiss-flag-30.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Flags/swiss-flag-30.gifGrüezi, Europe! (http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,723315,00.html)http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Flags/swiss-flag-30.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Flags/swiss-flag-30.gifhttp://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Flags/swiss-flag-30.gif


http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141484-galleryV9-rgkr.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141476-galleryV9-ecqh.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141481-galleryV9-wxlv.jpg


RIP
http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141478-galleryV9-dyyn.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141477-galleryV9-vyqu.jpg


:applause:
http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141485-galleryV9-btsu.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141486-galleryV9-watg.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141501-galleryV9-ahfd.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141492-galleryV9-trpg.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141488-galleryV9-dchf.jpg


27 envious EU transport ministers :D
http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141503-galleryV9-oqwi.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141516-galleryV9-zmdy.jpg


Saint Barbara was the first to be carried to the other side. :bow:
http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141521-galleryV9-okqu.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141533-galleryV9-mkmo.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141518-galleryV9-fwdh.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141514-galleryV9-ugpt.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141519-galleryV9-dcre.jpg



http://www.spiegel.de/images/image-141523-galleryV9-qjvv.jpg

:dance::cheer::cheer::banana2::cheer::cheer::dance:

After hearing about this project back in 2004-2005 through the Discovery series Extreme Engineering, it is great to see that it is now one step closer to reality. Congratulations Switzerland! Now add those last couple track kms to Lotschberg

Why?

Seikan main tunnel was broken through on 10th of March, 1985 (a pilot tunnel had broken through two years earlier). Then it took just 3 years and 3 days to open traffic.


Every tunnel is different. Fitting out the Channel tunnel took four years, but they had the advantage that the tunnel boring machine also installed the lining. At the Gotthard they did it differently. The Seikan tunnel is only one big bore, and a service tunnel, the Gotthard is two bores...
The Gotthard tunnel is expected to be used by 300 trains a day. In principle the schedule calls for 2 high speed passenger trains and 8 freight trains per hour per direction. The tunnel will have advanced signalling and safety equipment, and all that needs thorough testing. From what I read elsewhere the rails could already be installed and ready in 2013. It's all the fiddly stuff that still needs to be done, plus testing, that takes so long.

:applause::applause::applause::applause:
Great. Simply great.

Seeing the boring machine finally emerges is an awesome sight, almost forgot about this project after that Extreme Engineering episode, Congrats!

Xj8-0w7s6qw
LINK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj8-0w7s6qw)

http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?id=329dcac0-806a-4be8-8ad4-53a963d503f5&WT.zugang=front_pb1

Schweizer Fernsehen (Swiss Television): Horizonte

Only until 16.10.2010

Very interesting!

Does anybody know a way to download it?

Congratulations... now let's wait for the Ceneri tunnel southwards, anyway I hope we will be able to travel along the beautiful historical Gotthard line even after new tunnel entry into service.

Does anybody know a way to download it?

You should type into google "download video from sf videoportal" and then you will find maybe a site, where they tell you, how it's possible...

Here is a firefox-addon, which shows you the address of the video, which you need to download the video: https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/6706/ (but it's not compatible with the newest version of Firefox)


An other option is with the VLC player here a german description for it: http://www.fcbforum.ch/forum/showpost.php?p=1194534&postcount=5

Translated for you: Open the VLC player -> click on File in the menu -> click on open network stream -> in the new window you have to type in the address of the video (the address you get with the firefox addon or you find in the source code, not the normal URL)-> choose a destination address -> click on convert

I haven't tested this method by myself, but it should work!

Thank you. Apaprently this (http://www.downloadflv.com/download-flv-video-stream/download-flv-mp4-rtmp-stream-video-audio-videoportal-sf-tv.htm) is working.

Monthly update. :)

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri (http://www.alptransit.ch/en/news/article/2010/11/03/bezeichnung/)

03.11.2010

As of November 1, 2010, of the total of 151.84 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 149.9 km, or 98.7%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in October 2010 was 757 m.

http://www.alptransit.ch/typo3temp/pics/b681d95aa6.gif

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of October 2010, 9962 m, or 25.0%, had been excavated.

Fantastic news.

I hope i'm not a poor student, when the trains starts running through this! :)

It´s just brilliant, it is really moving to see this historical event, all the hard work done the last decades... congrats to the swiss people, makes one feel so proud to be european.

Special page son Herrenknecht's (the manufacturer of the TBMs) webiste: http://www.herrenknecht.com/projects/gotthard-base-tunnel.html

Opened:
- Lötschberg Base, 35 km, Alps, Switzerland (but quite useless regarding gradients as there is still the Simplon ramp)
- Guadarrama, 28 km, Sierra de Guadarrama, pure HSL
- Eurotunnel/Channel Tunnel, 50 km, undersea, United Kingdom-France
- Laerdal, 24.5 km, Scandinavian mountains, Norway, road

Under construction:
- Gotthard Base, 57 km, Alps, Switzerland
- Pajares, 25 km, Cordillera Cantabrica, Spain (+ 20 km of others tunnels, that is 45 km underground out of 50 km of new line)

Advanced planning stage (exploratory tunnels and acces shafts), but construction still uncertain
- Brenner Base, 55 km, Alps, Austria-Italy
- Fréjus Base, 57 km, Alps, France-Italy (also known as Mont Cenis Base, Mont d'Ambin Base, or Lyon-Turin)

Planned
- Semmering Base, 27 km, Alps, Austria
- Koralm, 27 km, Alps, Austria
- Traversée Centrale, around 40 km, Pyrenees, Spain-France (the less likely to be built in the near future)
- Gibraltar tunnel, 40 km, undersea, Spain-Morocco (even less likely but an exploratory tunnel has already been done)

(the adjective "base" is used where there is already a "summit" tunnel, even if on the Brenner there is no summit tunnel, but the new is called "base", and even if there is already a short 3 km tunnel on the Pajares line - but I don't know if this tunnel (called Perruca) is exactly on the summit or if the summit is elsewhere)

To these we have now to add the second Guanjiao tunnel in China, 32.6 km under construction at an altitude of 3.400 metres.

http://www.cwmags.com/November-09/basic/page17.php

http://www.putzmeister.de/cps/rde/xchg/pm_online/hs.xsl/8786_ENU_HTML.htm

To these we have now to add the second Guanjiao tunnel in China, 32.6 km under construction at an altitude of 3.400 metres.

http://www.cwmags.com/November-09/basic/page17.php

http://www.putzmeister.de/cps/rde/xchg/pm_online/hs.xsl/8786_ENU_HTML.htm

And here is the map of the current old Guanjiao Tunnel:

http://osm.org/go/5Thxql5--

Two long articles about the GBT and CBT: http://www.tunnel-online.info/en/issue/tunnel_2009-04_133044.html (in English and German)

The second of a series of three books about the project: http://www.alptransit.ch/de/news/article/2010/12/02/neues-buch-dokumentiert-bau-des-laengsten-tunnels-der-welt/ (I suppose it will published only in German and Italian; the third and last book will be published after the opening)

Finally, the usual monthly update:

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

02.12.2010

As of December 1, 2010, of the total of 151.84 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 150.4 km, or 99%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in November 2010 was 531 m.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of November 2010, 10.46 km, or 26.3%, had been excavated.

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

05.01.2011

As of January 1, 2011, of the total of 151.84 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 150.49 km, or 99.1%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in December 2010 was 113 m.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of December 2010, 10.82 km, or 27.2%, had been excavated.

http://www.alptransit.ch/en/news/article/2011/05/05/bezeichnung/

http://www.alptransit.ch/en/news/article/2011/05/05/bezeichnung/

Where are the 1350 m not dug yet?

Where are the 1350 m not dug yet?
Look at the "State of excavation" drawing in the link.

The west tunnel still has a bit to go until it will have it's breakthrough.

From alptransit.ch:

As of February 1, 2011, of the total of 151.84 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 150.77 km, or 99.3%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in January 2011 was 275 m.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of January 2011, 11.36 km, or 28.6%, had been excavated.

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

02.03.2011

As of March 1, 2011, of the total of 151.84 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 151.256 km, or 99.62%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in February 2011 was 486 m.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of February 2011, 11.89 km, or 29.9%, had been excavated.

And an aerial image of the northern part of this part of the new line (around 70 km in total): http://www.alptransit.ch/en/news/article/2011/03/02/bezeichnung/

The plan is for an entirely new Zürich-Milan railway parallel to the existing one, but the remaining parts will not be built anytime soon.

The 100.000th train crossed the Lötschberg Base Tunnel today, since its opening in June 2007. It carries 80 to 110 trains a day despite its 22 km of single track. As the traffic is higher than that, many trains still run on the old line.

http://www.bls.ch/d/unternehmen/medien-communiques.php

what about the second tube

and while we're at it, what about some other tunnels? bellinzona? zimmerberg 2? etc

what about the second tube

There is definitely lobbying going on to have the Lötschberg tunnel expanded. However there are two problems: a) money and b) what will happen once the Gotthard base tunnel opens...


and while we're at it, what about some other tunnels? bellinzona? zimmerberg 2? etc
Again, that's mostly a money issue. There are a lot of other projects on the wish lists of the railways and the kantons, and some of them will be untertaken first.

If you can cope with German there is a Wikipedia article that lists all projects, with status and what larger project they're part of.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweizer_Eisenbahnprojekte

[...]
If you can cope with German there is a Wikipedia article that lists all projects, with status and what larger project they're part of.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweizer_Eisenbahnprojekte

^^
Wow :uh:! Very interesting article. :popcorn: Thanks. :)

The line between Visp and the bifurcation Lausanne/Lötschberg base tunnel (some 3 km) will soon be extended from 3 to 4 tracks. This will allow retarded northbound trains to wait a slot in the LBT instead of running on the old line (this can cause troubles as some trains have second or third locomotive scheduled only ebtween Domodossola and Brig, and therefore if diverted they have to wait a bank engine).

Together with the extension of some passing loops on the Luino branch it's the only approved AlpTransit project (beside what is already under construction). Also the enlargment of the loading gauge on the Gotthard line may be probable in the next ten years.

The other projects are delayed again and again.

More informations of the new Lötschberg tunnel: http://www.bls.ch/e/unternehmen/download-neatprofil.pdf (changing the URL you can find it in the national languages)

An unofficial website about the LBT made by one of the workers: http://www.ferden.net/

(Ferden is the location of one of the access tunnels)

According to this source: http://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/zentralschweiz/kantone/uri/art97,82638 the final break through in the west tube will be on next Wednesday (23th March)! :)

Beside that there are some cross passages to bore. These will take another few days.

Plan of Faido emergency station: http://www.tat-ti.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Dokumente/Stand_der_Arbeiten_KW29_09_15072009.pdf (2.3 MB)

Gotthard Base Tunnel: Driving complete

23.03.2011

On March 23, 2011, the miners excavated the last metres of rock in the west tube between Faido and Sedrun. Around five months after the final breakthrough in the east tube, both single-track tunnels of the Gotthard Base Tunnel are therefore completely driven over a continuous length of 57 kilometres.

The tunnel boring machine from Faido broke through into the Sedrun section at 12:20 pm. The miners of the two sections could again shake hands. "With the end of excavation under the Gotthard, a further important milestone has been reached in the construction of the world's longest railway tunnel", says Renzo Simoni, CEO of AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd.

Mainly excavated by tunnel boring machine
With this second final breakthrough, a construction phase comes to an end which began in 2001 in the southern section at Bodio and was already prepared from 1996 with the construction of logistical access tunnels at Amsteg, Sedrun, Faido and Bodio, as well as the sinking of two 800 metres-deep shafts at Sedrun. Of the around 152-kilometres-long tunnel system of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, including all passages and shafts, around 56 % were excavated by tunnel boring machine and around 44 % by drilling and blasting. During the excavations, a total of more than 28 million metric tons of rock were transported out from under the mountains.

Railway infrastructure to be installed by 2016
AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd. will hand over the tunnel to Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) in operating condition at the end of May 2016. Until then, the focus of construction work will be on the tunnel lining, infrastructure systems and railway installations. This work has already started in the previously completed sections of tunnel in parallel with the final driving and concrete-shell construction activities.

AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd.
AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd. is the constructor of the Gotthard axis of the New Rail Link through the Alps with base tunnels through the Gotthard and Ceneri. Established in 1998 as a subsidiary of Swiss Federal Railways (SBB), the company now employs around 150 people at its headquarters in Lucerne and its branches in Altdorf, Sedrun, Faido and Bellinzona.

From ATG website: http://www.alptransit.ch/en/news/article/2011/03/23/gotthard-basistunnel-der-vortrieb-ist-beendet/ (the Italian and German versions have some more details and the speeches held during before and after the breakthrough)

To be precise, this is probably not the end of excavation, as there may be some cross tunnels linking the two tubes left, a few dozen metres in total.

The first track in the eastern tube, just a few hundred kilometres long.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5963/gbts.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/i/gbts.jpg/)

The first track in the eastern tube, just a few hundred kilometres long.



Are You sure about this ?

Obviously not! I had initially written "a few hundred meters", later I wanted to change it to "a few kilometres", but I made a mistake. I don't know how much track had already been laid, but it should be around 1,5 to 2 km in the western tube starting from the south. The eastern tube is still being used to supply the workers who are lining the tunnel (the red parts (http://www.alptransit.ch/en/?no_cache=1) in the drawing).

The 30th AlpTransit report has been published: http://www.bav.admin.ch/alptransit/index.html?lang=fr (on the right, only in the three official languages)

Stand der Arbeiten am Gotthard und am Ceneri

04.04.2011

Am 1. April 2011 waren von den insgesamt 151.84 km Tunnel, Schächte und Stollen des Gotthard-Basistunnels 151.70 km oder 99.91 % ausgebrochen. Der Vortrieb im März 2011 betrug 453 m. Die Vortriebsarbeiten im Gotthard-Basistunnel sind bis auf 40m bei einem Querschlag abgeschlossen. Beim Tagbautunnel West in Erstfeld fehlen noch 118 m bis zum Anschluss an das bergmännische Portal.

Beim Ceneri-Basistunnel waren von den insgesamt 39.78 km Ende März 2011 12.345 km oder 31% ausgebrochen.

99.9% of the GBT and 31% of the CBT have been bored.

The 2010 film has been published by ATG, for the second time also in English (other than German and Italian): http://www.alptransit.ch/en/service/dvds-alptransit-gotthard/

The usual monthly update:

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

As of April 1, 2011, of the total of 151.84 km of tunnels, galleries and passages of the Gotthard Base Tunnel, 151.7 km, or 99.91%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in March 2011 was 453 m.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of March 2011, 12.345 km, or 21%, had been excavated.

The 0.09% still to be bored is composed by two cross passages and part of the artificial tunnel section of the northern portal.

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

04.05.2011

Except for 40 metres of a cross-passage in the Faido section, driving work in the Gotthard Base Tunnel is complete. In the west cut-and-cover tunnel at Erstfeld, 77 metres remain until the connection to the underground portal. Lining work in the Erstfeld, Sedrun and Faido sections is progressing according to plan. At Bodio West, installation of the railway infrastructure for the test section is in progress.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of April 2011, 12.66 km, or 31.8%, had been excavated.

http://www.alptransit.ch/en/news/article/2011/05/04/bezeichnung/

On May 20th 500 randomly choosen visitors will travel through the first kilometres of the base tunnel for the first time on the recently laid tracks. Free shuttle bus from Biasca railway station to the work site, then by train until a point somewhere in the mountain.

http://www.alptransit.ch/en/visit-us/construction-site-open-day/ (a more detailed presentation is available only in Italian and German)

http://www.bls.ch/images/content/fotogalerie/neat/02-gr.jpg

http://www.bls.ch/i/unternehmen/fotogalerie-neat.php

^^ why is it going to take until 2017 to put the tunnel in operation? I can understand some time for installing systems, particularly ventilation that is needed for other works/test to proceed, but I can't understand why the need for 6 years for all of that until commercial operations begin - assuming no further delays.

In any case, that the Swiss built 2 single-track transalpine tunnels instead of one transalpine tunnel with double tracks or - even better - one road, one rail tunnel is beyond my ability to understand that small country just north of Milano.

Maybe it has something to do with your abilities rather with the project? :dunno:

And the reason for the time it takes to do the installation is already written some pages ago.

In any case, that the Swiss built 2 single-track transalpine tunnels instead of one transalpine tunnel with double tracks or - even better - one road, one rail tunnel is beyond my ability to understand that small country just north of Milano.

The new Gotthard tunnel is double track, the new Lötschberg tunnel is partly single track, both with two parallel single track tubes for safety and maintenance reasons (in the case of the Lötschberg, one third has two tracks in two tubes, one third has one track in one tube + a parallel rail tube, full profile but without the track, one third has one track in one tube + a parallel small diametre service tunnel).

This is what voters decided to build, just like they rejected a project proposing third lanes on Geneva-Lausanne, Berne-Zürich and a second Gotthard road tunnel, plus some money for urban public transport.

In any case, that the Swiss built 2 single-track transalpine tunnels instead of one transalpine tunnel with double tracks or - even better - one road, one rail tunnel is beyond my ability to understand that small country just north of Milano.

It's probably also beyond your ability to understand why the French and the English built two singne track tunnels under the Channel...

The Swiss want to put more goods on railways to prevent an increase of traffic on their highways. And that is the best solution for the ever increasing heavy truck traffic in Europe. :okay:

Whole Europe should follow this example! :yes:

^^ why is it going to take until 2017 to put the tunnel in operation? I can understand some time for installing systems, particularly ventilation that is needed for other works/test to proceed, but I can't understand why the need for 6 years for all of that until commercial operations begin - assuming no further delays.

The official site states that the tunnel will be handed over to its owners at the end of May 2016 now. So that's an improvement on earlier estimates of late 2017.

If you take a look at progress on the aforementioned official site, you can see that there's still a huge amount of work to do on the tunnel yet: many km of concrete lining left to do, electrics, the catenary, drainage, not to mention testing of all these systems once they're installed.

IMO, this would have to be one of the most complex tunnels ever built because of the sheer number of systems in place due to its extreme length.

Cheers,
StuZealand

(This is my first post as a registered user.) :)

^^ Will that intermediate station, 1000m below ground, be opened at the same time? I still don't get why are they building a station, in the middle of the tunnel, though. I do understand the need for ventilation shafts and service accesses, but opening a station in the middle of the mountains seems a bit over the top.

^^ Will that intermediate station, 1000m below ground, be opened at the same time? I still don't get why are they building a station, in the middle of the tunnel, though. I do understand the need for ventilation shafts and service accesses, but opening a station in the middle of the mountains seems a bit over the top.

Nope, Porta Alpina was put on indefinate hold a few years ago.

The Porta Alpina was the mother of all pipe dreams.

You could even say the people promoting it had tunnel vision. :P

http://www.bls.ch/images/content/fotogalerie/neat/02-gr.jpg

http://www.bls.ch/i/unternehmen/fotogalerie-neat.php

Hi Coccodrillo,
The picture you posted above shows the tunnel with lights lining the walls. Is this typical of modern Swiss tunnels, to have lights on all the time?

Hi Coccodrillo,
The picture you posted above shows the tunnel with lights lining the walls. Is this typical of modern Swiss tunnels, to have lights on all the time?

I guess lights are on because the tunnel is a construction site. It is also an indirect way to test the reliability of the tunnel's emergency lighting system.

There is no point leaving a tunnel well-lit when in use. Bright interior of trains + dark tunnel = less claustrophobic impression on passengers.

Thanks for that. In all the railway tunnels I've been through in New Zealand, none have had any kind of lighting. The few road tunnels we have (if they're modern and lined) have usually had some lighting going 24/7.

Hi Coccodrillo,
The picture you posted above shows the tunnel with lights lining the walls. Is this typical of modern Swiss tunnels, to have lights on all the time?

No, lights are not on normally in a tunnel during operation. There are a few indicator lights, so that the driver can have an idea of his progress.

Thanks for that. In all the railway tunnels I've been through in New Zealand, none have had any kind of lighting. The few road tunnels we have (if they're modern and lined) have usually had some lighting going 24/7.

Sure. Road vehicle drivers need a clear vision of the track they are driving over as there are no passive guidance system (like rails are for trains) for road vehicles - yet.

A modern road tunnel has to have much more stringent and sophisticated lighting, signaling and fire extinguishing capabilities than a rail tunnel because the potential for incidents is greater. 1999-2002 have shown us that with the Mt. Blanc (1999), St. Gotthard (2001) and Fréjus (2002) tunnel fires with many deaths (particularly the first incident).

A few photos taken yesterday, 28 May 2011, during the first public trip by standard gauge train into the GBT. These trains entered the tunnel for about 2 km, while the track continues for about 13 km in the west tube until a point just before Faido station. The east tube is still used to supply the other parts of the construction site, and hosts narrow gauge tracks for the service trains.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2010/01dsc00284.jpg
http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/539/01dsc00300.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8000/01dsc00309.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1379/01dsc00310.jpg

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7342/02dscn1811.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1981/02dscn1815.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1356/02dscn1822.jpg
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6205/02dscn1825.jpg

http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/3026/02dscn1827.jpg
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1489/02dscn1829.jpg
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/4151/02dscn1834.jpg
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7114/02dscn1864.jpg

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/3959/02dscn1885.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5701/02dscn1892.jpg
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1663/03dsc00329.jpg
http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/3967/03dsc00333.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/296/03dsc00345.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9439/03dsc00347.jpg
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4293/04dscn1913.jpg

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2869/04dscn1933.jpg
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8274/04dscn1942.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4787/04dscn1949.jpg

That's the end for now :)

^^ nice pics :cheers:
but exif say they are from 2007 :)

I didn't notice that one of the two cameras I used was set with the wrong time, thank you :)

I have two cameras, one of which (the Sony DSC-WX1) has accumulated dust on the lenses which becomes very visible using the zoom...even if I had not used it in dusty places before. That's why I use it only in these occasions: it's too late to worry about dust now...

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Was it open day?

Yes, every year there are one or two open days. Visits are also possible on other days if there are enough people.

Great pics Coccodrillo. They give a better idea of one of the work sites thank you.

http://www.alptransit.ch/fileadmin/images/Startseite/Amsteg_Querkaverne_Fusspunkt_2011_05.jpg

beautiful

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri
04.06.2011
On May 19, 2011, at 3:03 pm in Cross Gallery 91 in the Faido section, the final blast in the Gotthard Base Tunnel took place. After 18 years, this marks the completion of driving in the Gotthard Base Tunnel.

Lining work in the Erstfeld, Sedrun and Faido sections is progressing according to plan. Of the total of 114.6 km of lining work, 114.6 km (100%) of the invert and 100.86 km (88%) of the vault have now been concreted. At Bodio West, installation of the railway infrastructure for the test section is in progress.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of May 2011, 13.14 km, or 33%, had been excavated. Concreting work continues in both tunnels.

I thought they'd use rigid catenary to lower maintenance costs and increase its lifespan in such a critical tunnel; I don't know if such catenary has been tested for these speeds, though

1/7/2011

[Translated from the German version of AlpTransit, as the English version hasn't been updated).

The interior work in the sections Erstfeld, Sedrun and Faido are progressing according to plan. Bodio-west of the installation of the railway running gear for the test track. [?]

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri base tunnel, 13.58 km or 34.2% has been excavated. The advance rate in June was 468 meters.

Oh BTW, Has anyone else noticed this typo on AlpTransit:

The word's longest railway tunnel is being constructed here.

:lol:

The official translation:

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri

01.07.2011

Lining work in the Erstfeld, Sedrun and Faido sections is progressing according to plan. At Bodio West, installation of the railway infrastructure for the test section is in progress.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of May 2011, 13.58 km, or 34.2%, had been excavated. The total amount driven in June was 468 m.

Most of the tunnel has been lined. Here an image showing progress in Faido section: http://www.tat-ti.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/Dokumente/Wochenbericht_486_KW_29-11_TAT_Bodio-Faido_Uebersicht.pdf

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,775942,00.html

Unfortunately it's true, this line has faced a lot of problems even if technically easy (no relevant tunnels or bridges), except for the 9.4 km Katzenbergtunnel (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katzenbergtunnel) which has already been built.

The situation on the Italian side is even worse, as traffic has either to pass through Milan (full of suburban trains) or via Luino (single track line).

I hope that the target of 650.000 truck limit will really be achieved. This could maybe speed up works.

The situation on the Italian side is even worse, as traffic has either to pass through Milan (full of suburban trains) or via Luino (single track line).

I hope that the target of 650.000 truck limit will really be achieved. This could maybe speed up works.

What are the Italian plans to optimise connections to CH's new high speed line? Bypass Milan? Something else?

* building a new single track line between Bellinzona (near letters C and D in the map below), Luino and Laveno Mombello (there is no space for a parallel second track along the existing line because of mountains)
* doubling the Arona-Oleggio-Vignale-Novara line (I'm not aware of plas for doubling the Laveno-Sesto Calende-Oleggio part, which has no passenger traffic outside 3 rush hour trains, so capacity here is sufficient for the near future)
* quadrupling Chiasso-Seregno (on the mainline to Milano), doubling Seregno-Carnate Usmate (or maybe a new line), building a new line from Carnate Usmate to a point located between Bergamo and Treviglio to bypass Milan

Map: http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/milano-area/milano-area.gif

Well hopefully Germany and Italy will get their acts together and build their respective connections within the next five years.

Otherwise the GBT will not exactly be a white elephant, but be seriously under utilised for its intended purpose. :bash:

Italy should do something also on its own lines, far from the border itself. There are traffics, say, like Rome-Milan by truck, transhipment, Milan-Hamburg by train. Doing the entire trip by train would be better...

Italy should do something also on its own lines, far from the border itself. There are traffics, say, like Rome-Milan by truck, transhipment, Milan-Hamburg by train. Doing the entire trip by train would be better...


I've often wondered why there is no 'strategic plan' in Italy to do this given that, as with Novatrans in France, once upon a time CEMAT intermodal services did carry semi-trailers.

One of the reasons of the road-rail transhipment around Milan (or Verona for the Brenner) is that south of Bologna all railways were (obviously) built to small profile and never enlarged, thus traffic going there requires special and more expensive wagons (like in the UK).

One of the reasons of the road-rail transhipment around Milan (or Verona for the Brenner) is that south of Bologna all railways were (obviously) built to small profile and never enlarged, thus traffic going there requires special and more expensive wagons (like in the UK).


Your point about the profile is true, but not the one about special wagons.

The reason why special wagon designs have been necessary for piggyback services in Britain relates to the width of the loading gauge at the chassis level.

In other words, even if the British loading gauge had the height clearances for 4m-high semi-trailers, standard piggyback wagon designs could not run.

There's a fleet of dark-blue 'mega 3' wagons in use with TX Logistik. Owned by NACCO, they look noticably slimmer than any wagon you'll see on a Hupac or Kombiverkehr train, for example. They were meant for use in Britain, but of course the height problem in Britain effectively rules out any kind of commercial piggyback operation.

In Italy, the rail network only suffers from a height problem - hence why standard piggyback wagons can be seen in some CEMAT trains, even if they are only carrying swap bodies or containers.

Unfortunately it's true, this line has faced a lot of problems even if technically easy (no relevant tunnels or bridges), except for the 9.4 km Katzenbergtunnel (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katzenbergtunnel) which has already been built.

Well, it looks to me like a well-know and oft-seen political ploy: the opponents of Stuttgart-21 declare that "if we have to build that, then there will be no money for the link to Switzerland". They know full well that there will be an international outcry at that threat. DB last year tried something similar with the new Fehmarn railway link to eastern Denmark, telling the politicians that if their investment budget was reduced then they could tear up their state treaty with the Danish government. Creating a stir and relying on the neighbouring country to come to your rescue... :ohno:

That said, there's also an issue on the Swiss side of the border. It's all very good that Gotthard will soon be a reality, and that the Germans (hopefully) will get their act together in the Rhine Valley. But unless the Swiss start moving quickly on the much-discussed Wisenbergtunnel I'm not sure how much will be gained. It looks to me like we then get a new bottleneck - this time in the Jura mountains.

In Italy, the rail network only suffers from a height problem - hence why standard piggyback wagons can be seen in some CEMAT trains, even if they are only carrying swap bodies or containers.

The height south of Bologna forbid also 9'6'' containers and the highest swap bodies on standard flat wagons, not only semitrailers. There wagons with a low floor have to be used, which are something more expensive.

But unless the Swiss start moving quickly on the much-discussed Wisenbergtunnel I'm not sure how much will be gained. It looks to me like we then get a new bottleneck - this time in the Jura mountains.

It will be a problem, but less urgent than bottlenecks around Milan, in my opinion. The existing Basel-Olten line will be upgraded for 500 trains/day, and the Basel-Brugg-Rotkreuz line has still some spare capacity.

01.08.2011

Gotthard Base Tunnel, Sedrun.
On July 8, 2011, in the Erstfeld-Amsteg East section, the technical inspection took place. On July 19, 2011, ATG handed over this section and the associated pre-portal area to the railway infrastructure consortium.

On July 18, 2011, the operational readiness of the Rynächt installations site was officially determined. At Bodio West, installation of the railway infrastructure for the test section is in progress.

In the Gotthard Base Tunnel, lining work in the Erstfeld, Sedrun and Faido sections is progressing according to plan. Installation of the 114.6 km invert is complete. Of the total of 114.6 km of vault, 105.977 km, or 92%, have been concreted.

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of July 2011, 13.96 km, or 35.1%, had been excavated. Concreting work continues in both tubes.



..

Gotthard Base Tunnel to be operational from 2016
22.08.2011

The Federal Office of Transport (FOT), AlpTransit Gotthard Ltd (ATG), and Swiss Federal Railways (SBB AG) will do everything possible to make the Gotthard Base Tunnel (GBT) operational from December 2016. All work in the GBT and on the approach lines will be in support of this goal.

ATG as constructor of the Gotthard Base Tunnel (GBT) and Swiss Federal Railways (SBB) as future operator have coordinated their timetables. They plan to start scheduled train services through the GBT from the end of 2016. Together with FOT as orderer and supervisory authority, a detailed analysis was performed of the advantages and disadvantages that making the GBT operational one year earlier than planned in 2016 would bring. Based on this analysis, FOT regards the start of scheduled train services through the GBT from the end of 2016 as realistic, feasible and appropriate. There are no currently apparent problems that would preclude going into operation at the end of 2016.

By going into operation in 2016 with a still to be defined offering of scheduled train services, benefits from use of the flat route through the GBT will be generated already one year earlier than planned to date. Specific benefits are as follows:

shorter journey times in passenger services between German-speaking Switzerland and the Ticino and Italy;
increased productivity in goods traffic; and, as a result,
a contribution to transferring trans-Alpine goods traffic from road to rail.
Besides these benefits there will be additional operating costs that occur one year earlier. The earlier start of operations also means that time reserves are eliminated and the work of the various parties involved must be coordinated even more precisely. This increases the demands on the project management.

Within the framework of periodic progress reviews, FOT, ATG and SBB will jointly undertake an integral risk analysis of the entire north-south axis through the Gotthard.

Train service offerings from 2016 still to be defined

The extent of the train services for passengers and freight to be offered from December 2016 must still be defined. The date from which the currently planned maximum of seven trains per hour and direction can travel through the GBT depends on completion of the Ceneri Base Tunnel and the status of expansion of the approach lines north and south of the Gotthard. The specific timetable offering will be determined two years ahead of the start of operations as part of the normal two-year timetable planning in 2014. Final confirmation of the starting date for operations will only be possible at that stage.

With the decision by everyone involved to aim for operations to begin at the end of 2016, this construction project of the century enters a crucial phase.

For further information:
Federal Office of Transport, Information, 031 322 36 43, presse@bav.admin.ch

The specific timetable offering will be determined two years ahead of the start of operations as part of the normal two-year timetable planning in 2014. Final confirmation of the starting date for operations will only be possible at that stage.


What a mess! Sure it is good to have the project completed on time, before major renovation on the Gotthard road tunnel begins. However, why in this Earth would someone plan a timetable two years ahead of time? It seems like an overkill, the press release focus too much on timetable and too little in the engineering part of the project.

You can decide on your timetable 2 months ahead of time, even closer provided you have appropriate rolling stock.

^^ No, you can't, unless you are used to waste taxpayer's money like Italy.

In Switzerland only useful things are built. That's why the Minister of Transports firstly plan the needed type of service together with local authorities, secondly the MoT together with the railway company involved plans exactly what infrastructure is needed (up to the position of a single switch in every station), and only at the end of the planning process works can begin.

Careful planification allow to handle 170 trains a day on partially single track lines, or 400 to 500 trains a day on double track lines, saving a lot of our money reducing construction costs. A badly planned timetable can halve the capacity of these kinds of lines to 80 and 250 trains per day respectively.

^^ No, you can't, unless you are used to waste taxpayer's money like Italy.

It is not about wasting public money, but building infrastructure without micro-managing its use.

In Switzerland, a company like NTV would never have any chance to operate because of the oppressive system in which every bit of rail infrastructure is taken by centrally defined scheduled trains. Even hostile competition of International trains is difficult there unless SBB collaborates. Fair enough, Switzerland is not part of EU, but it forces every foreign operator to bend to their rules and priorities. Cisalpino is a good late example of that. They wanted to kill Cisalpino before the new Gotthard tunnel entered operation, to avoid it taking a higher share of a market (Ticino - rest of CH) SBB wants to fierce control as a monopolist.

In Switzerland only useful things are built. That's why the Minister of Transports firstly plan the needed type of service together with local authorities, secondly the MoT together with the railway company involved plans exactly what infrastructure is needed (up to the position of a single switch in every station), and only at the end of the planning process works can begin.

Non-sense! It would be like building a new runway only after careful planning, in a monopolistic way, with airlines interested in operating previously defined routes 2 years in advance of the opening of a new terminal!

Careful planification allow to handle 170 trains a day on partially single track lines, or 400 to 500 trains a day on double track lines, saving a lot of our money reducing construction costs. A badly planned timetable can halve the capacity of these kinds of lines to 80 and 250 trains per day respectively.

They are overstretching the rail lines' capacity. Should a problem, weather or technical, happens, the whole system is bring to a halt because of the use of every single bit of track and path to its maximum.

Anyway, the idea of building infrastructure for previously defined use is keen to communist countries and their centrally planned approaches. It doesn't fit the otherwise business friendly atmosphere of CH.

It is not about wasting public money, but building infrastructure without micro-managing its use.

Building something which is useless 99% of time is a waste of money.

In Switzerland, a company like NTV would never have any chance to operate because of the oppressive system in which every bit of rail infrastructure is taken by centrally defined scheduled trains.

Thankfully. The result is that Swiss use public transport 3 times more than Italians, even if Switzerland has built much less new infrastructure.

Cisalpino is a good late example of that. They wanted to kill Cisalpino before the new Gotthard tunnel entered operation, to avoid it taking a higher share of a market (Ticino - rest of CH) SBB wants to fierce control as a monopolist.

Cisalpino wasn't killed in a normal sense, it was more a sort of euthanasia. Cisalpino did its best to be hated by everyone. But I agree that SBB wanted to make it disappear.

Non-sense! It would be like building a new runway only after careful planning, in a monopolistic way, with airlines interested in operating previously defined routes 2 years in advance of the opening of a new terminal!

If the runway is built with private funds, then no problem. If it is built with my money, then no thank you, think 100 time before spending it.

They are overstretching the rail lines' capacity. Should a problem, weather or technical, happens, the whole system is bring to a halt because of the use of every single bit of track and path to its maximum.

Yes, it would be a problem, but everything is done so as no faults happens (well...this is becoming less true in recent years).

Anyway, the idea of building infrastructure for previously defined use is keen to communist countries and their centrally planned approaches. It doesn't fit the otherwise business friendly atmosphere of CH.

Avoiding waste of taxpayer's money is not communism.

What a mess! Sure it is good to have the project completed on time, before major renovation on the Gotthard road tunnel begins. However, why in this Earth would someone plan a timetable two years ahead of time?

Because you need to decide about things like where you're going to put signals, sidings, switches etc. And these things have lead times.

You don't want to find out after the fact that you could run one train per hour more if only you'd have placed a particular signal somewhere else, or build a siding in a different place...

In Switzerland, a company like NTV would never have any chance to operate because of the oppressive system in which every bit of rail infrastructure is taken by centrally defined scheduled trains. Even hostile competition of International trains is difficult there unless SBB collaborates.

A timetable with fixed slots makes it actually easier for private companies to run trains, as they can just ask for the catalogue, buy a slot for a particular period and be guaranteed that slot. It's probably one of the reason why more privately run trains operate in Switzerland than in most European countries.

Cisalpino is a good late example of that. They wanted to kill Cisalpino before the new Gotthard tunnel entered operation, to avoid it taking a higher share of a market (Ticino - rest of CH)

You don't know what you write about.
There was no competition between Cisalpino and SBB on the Ticino - rest of Switzerland market, as the Cisalpino trains were always integrated with the rest of the offer. Normal domestic tarif applied to trips from Chiasso to points north.
There was no competition. Someone travelling from Lugano to Zürich would just take whatever train was convenient. The Cisalpino brand only mattered in so far as it was a train to avoid, as the trainsets were so unreliable.


Non-sense! It would be like building a new runway only after careful planning, in a monopolistic way, with airlines interested in operating previously defined routes 2 years in advance of the opening of a new terminal!

You really think that airport expansion is not done in a carefully planned way?

Anyway, the idea of building infrastructure for previously defined use is keen to communist countries and their centrally planned approaches. It doesn't fit the otherwise business friendly atmosphere of CH.

So you need a certain amount of communism to avoid problems with runaway national debts, it seems. Is that what you are implying?

SBB plans to run Zürich - Ticino trains half hourly from 2019 onwards (when the Ceneri tunnel opens). To make this possible the capacity of the Zug - Arth Goldau line needs to be increased.
So from 2016 on this line will be closed for two years, to allow it to be reconstructed and partly double tracked.
Long distance trains will be rerouted via the western bank of Lake Zug. Thanks to the opening of the Gotthard Base tunnel in 2016 this will not lead to longer travel times on the Gotthard route. Even though every train will have to reverse in Rotkreuz travel times will already be 20 minutes faster from 2016 onwards. In order to prepare for the closure of Zug - Arth Goldau the last single track section on Zug - Rotkreuz will be double tracked, and an extra track for reversing trains will be installed in Rotkreuz.
http://m.sbb.ch/news.newsdetail.2011-8-2908_45_01.html

^^ Can't they just build the missing part of the T on that line? Looking on Google Earth, it looks like there is a good alignment for the gap to be closed with demolition of fewer than 12-15 houses, and that would also leave a permanent direct connections that could be used by future trains between Cham and Küssnatch.

And why will they make the line only "partly doubled" instead of "entirely doubled"?

^^ Can't they just build the missing part of the T on that line?

It was once planend, but now with the partial "doubling" (only less than 2 km, actually) of the Zug - Arth Goldau line there is no need for it.

And why will they make the line only "partly doubled" instead of "entirely doubled"?

Because it would cost much for a little utility. It is useless to double a line in a point where trains aren't planned to cross each other (except to reduce propagation of delays).

^^ Can't they just build the missing part of the T on that line? Looking on Google Earth, it looks like there is a good alignment for the gap to be closed with demolition of fewer than 12-15 houses, and that would also leave a permanent direct connections that could be used by future trains between Cham and Küssnatch.

Interestingly there was once a chord there. It was removed when Gotthard route was separated from the Zürich - Luzern route.
(For Cham - Küssnacht trains you would also have to build a new chord where the Luzern -Immensee line joins btw...)
I don't think there is enough demand for direct trains on that relation to justify building the chord.
As far as I know building it was once considered. Earlier plans for the northern approach to the Gotthard once considered running southbound trains on the eastern bank, and northbound trains on the western bank of the Zugersee. However the solution now chosen (upgrading and partly doubling the eastern bank route) has the advantage to allow half hourly local service on the eastern bank of the Zugersee too.
To make efficient reversal of the Gotthard ICs in Rotkreuz possible the station will get an extra track, and the last single track section between Zug and Rotkreuz will be eliminated, which will make it possible to run the locals on the west bank of the Zugersee in nice 15 minute intervals in the future. So you see that SBB has choosen to only build stuff that will have utility beyond 2019.
Eliminating the reversal in Rotkreuz would have limited utility anyway, as the train has to meet with the Basel - Gotthard trains in Arth Goldau anyway, so minutes saved there would mostly end up being spend standing in Arth Goldau.


And why will they make the line only "partly doubled" instead of "entirely doubled"?
Because that would cost more and not bring any extra utility.
One advantage of interval timetables is that trains always cross at the same points. So you only need to build double track at those points. That is one of the reason why SBB is already working on the post Gotthard timetable. This way they know exactly how much they need to invest in infrastructure to get the service level they think they can make most money with...

^^ And what happens if a foreign operator, open-access one - say DB - wants to run some 3 daily Milano-Zürich-Basel-Frankfurt trains, for instance? "Not possible because our infrastructure doesn't allow for it"?

"Not possible because our infrastructure doesn't allow for it"?

Basically, yes. But thankfully Switzerland isn´t part of the EU and for the moment is not obliged to allow other operators.

However, in this case, is in interest of DB searching some collaboration with the SBB, as a non integrated operator (if ever permitted) would hardly attract swiss passengers.

Basically, yes. But thankfully Switzerland isn´t part of the EU and for the moment is not obliged to allow other operators.

However, in this case, is in interest of DB searching some collaboration with the SBB, as a non integrated operator (if ever permitted) would hardly attract swiss passengers.

As they already do with through freight traffic, the Swiss are again plotting against foreign traffic, even if they are highly dependent on other European countries from EU's economies.

They want to force international rail operators to "fit" their own schemes for rail schedules and not disrupt any service.

As for an hypothetical Milano-Frankfurt train via Switzerland, I was thinking of international traffic to/from CH. It is possible even to forbid the operator to sell tickets for inta-Swiss relations.

They want to force international rail operators to "fit" their own schemes for rail schedules and not disrupt any service.

Well, it is SBB who's building the infrastructure to cover its own needs. I'm pretty sure that if DB wants to run a service between Milano and Frankfurt via ZH and BS and the company offers to double all single tracks on the route, their investments would be very welcomed.

Well, it is SBB who's building the infrastructure to cover its own needs. I'm pretty sure that if DB wants to run a service between Milano and Frankfurt via ZH and BS and the company offers to double all single tracks on the route, their investments would be very welcomed.

That is the problem of collusion between infrastructure building decisions and service operating decisions. Works like the Gotthard tunnel and its complements should be done to increase capacity.

When they first announced the Gotthard project, I was younger but I already got frustrated that they said they were not planning to carry whole trucks in RO-RO trains, but only piggyback ones. And because infrastructure and service are colluded against free market, it is very unlikely that any private operator could try to run RO-RO trains, let alone because of the tunnel specifications and because the are not implementing safety measures needed to accommodate 100 trucks with tanks full of diesel (= fire hazard) there, but only their trailers.

At the same tame, they don't build the 2nd Gotthard road bore. They are essentially forcing through freight traffic to do transshipment in both Germany and Italy.

They are essentially forcing through freight traffic to do transshipment in both Germany and Italy.


Isn't the promotion of unaccompanied intermodal systems (semi-trailers/swap bodies) a good thing?

As for an hypothetical Milano-Frankfurt train via Switzerland, I was thinking of international traffic to/from CH. It is possible even to forbid the operator to sell tickets for inta-Swiss relations.

I don't think that a Zürich-Milano service could survive with only international passengers (except on very peak days during holidays, the same when the motorway is full of tourists), without considering that a non SBB service would not accept its discoutns, and thats means losing a lot of users.

Isn't the promotion of unaccompanied intermodal systems (semi-trailers/swap bodies) a good thing?

Yes it is, unlike RoRo trains, which cannot cover their costs and are subsidized, also because only a third or so of the train's weight are goods. The problem is not the risk of fires...

The only partial exception is the Eurotunnel, where road vehicles don't have a road alternative, but again, Euroshuttles cannot repay their infrastructure.

^^ And what happens if a foreign operator, open-access one - say DB - wants to run some 3 daily Milano-Zürich-Basel-Frankfurt trains, for instance? "Not possible because our infrastructure doesn't allow for it"?

"not possible because or infra doesn't allow it" is an excuse that RFI will use, even when it's not true (Milano Centrale at capacity? Really?) SBB works differently. I don't know how many paths will be timetabled on the Arth Goldau - Zug line after 2018, but I'm sure it will have some spares, as SBB itself likes to have some operational flexibility too. The paths will likely be bundled at half hour intervals though.
So yes, DB would have to confirm to the timetable. But that is the case everywhere. There is not a single network operator in Europe where you can just request to be allowed to run a train at your own convenience. Everywhere the procedure requires that you buy a path in the current or future timetable.

DB would however not want to run a train. Milano Zürich - Basel - Frankfurt.
Milano - Basel - Frankfurt maybe, but such a train would go via the Simplon.

As they already do with through freight traffic, the Swiss are again plotting against foreign traffic, even if they are highly dependent on other European countries from EU's economies.


There are already today many foreign operators running trains through Switzerland. More than in many other countries. I don't get the impression they are "plotting against" them. It's more like "plotting to make them feal as welcome as possible".
Switzerland has implemented the EU railway directives. Better then some EU countries even.


They want to force international rail operators to "fit" their own schemes for rail schedules and not disrupt any service.

The requirement to make your trains fit a schedule is one that _every_ network operator in Europe makes.


As for an hypothetical Milano-Frankfurt train via Switzerland, I was thinking of international traffic to/from CH. It is possible even to forbid the operator to sell tickets for inta-Swiss relations.

If DB wants to run a Milano-Frankfurt train their biggest problems will be with the Italians, not the Swiss.

That is the problem of collusion between infrastructure building decisions and service operating decisions. Works like the Gotthard tunnel and its complements should be done to increase capacity.

The collusion between service operating secisions and infrastructure building exists everywhere. RFF is forcing SNCF to adopt a fixed interval timetable for example. Timetabling has a lot of influence on capacity, and thus also on how much revenue a line can generate.


When they first announced the Gotthard project, I was younger but I already got frustrated that they said they were not planning to carry whole trucks in RO-RO trains, but only piggyback ones. And because infrastructure and service are colluded against free market, it is very unlikely that any private operator could try to run RO-RO trains, let alone because of the tunnel specifications and because the are not implementing safety measures needed to accommodate 100 trucks with tanks full of diesel (= fire hazard) there, but only their trailers.


I don't know where you have this from, but it is intened to run RoLa trains through the Gotthard base tunnel, just like they already do through the new Lötschberg tunnel.



At the same tame, they don't build the 2nd Gotthard road bore. They are essentially forcing through freight traffic to do transshipment in both Germany and Italy.

A bit like the UK "forces" most freight to be transhipped too... Anyway, Trenitalia/RFI want to turn Italy in to an Island. They should not have a problem with transhipment then...

A bit like the UK "forces" most freight to be transhipped too... Anyway, Trenitalia/RFI want to turn Italy in to an Island. They should not have a problem with transhipment then...

Trenitalia has nothing to do with it. The issue is whether RFI should accelerate ERTMS-2 when countries like French, Germany and Austria are dragging their feet on their "superior" and "time-proven" signaling systems.

But I agree there is still undue influence of Trenitalia on RFI. That is why I favor dismantling Trenitaltia into 17 regional railways for the public service contracts, and having it operate only profitable free market, unsubsidized trains. The regional operators of Piemonte, Lombardia, Trentino and Friuli shall be then forbidden to operate any international train to avoid them becoming international carriers since they are subsidized.

Trenitalia has nothing to do with it.

Trenitalia tried to boycott TILO and DB-ÖBB services, even when they weren't in "competition" with their own service. Not to forget the Cisalpino disaster.

The regional operators of Piemonte, Lombardia, Trentino and Friuli shall be then forbidden to operate any international train to avoid them becoming international carriers since they are subsidized.

Some international services can and have to be subsidized: TILO and Nord-Südtirol services for instance, but also PACA-Liguria or FVG-Slovenia regions may be well suited for this kind of services (these two latter examples are only hypothetical, as Liguria is doing nothing for regional transport, while FVG not much more).

Trenitalia tried to boycott TILO and DB-ÖBB services, even when they weren't in "competition" with their own service. Not to forget the Cisalpino disaster.

TILO operations tried to impose Swiss-like paths on the crowded approaches to Milano, because the Swiss from Ticino wanted it to operate on fixed dumb schedules, even if demand is not evenly spread throughout the day. Why should RFI, in whose tracks 60-70% of train*km traveled over, should confirm to Swiss norms and not the other way around? They just assumed their path allocation system was too good to be messed by Italian demands, not directly in scheduling, but in other related areas like maintenance schedule etc. And there were serious disagreements about revenue share on passengers using Trenitalia trains in Milano area with a TILO tickek. TILO essentially wanted Trenitalia to carry passengers for free in Milano because it was so big and already run the trains, without a proper revenue-share agreement.

TILO operations tried to impose Swiss-like paths on the crowded approaches to Milano, because the Swiss from Ticino wanted it to operate on fixed dumb schedules, even if demand is not evenly spread throughout the day.

Most of Trenords suburban and regional services are on fixed schedules. S11 (Chiasso - Milano) runs exactly every hour. Can you explain how through running this service with S10 in Switzerland as was originally planned, would increase crowding on the Milano network? it would not add trains to Milano Garibaldi (where S11 currently ends).
"fixed dumb schedules" are the best way to deal with a crowded network. Everyone is aksing SMA and Partners to help them develop schedules, because the Swiss have a lot of experience getting the most out of infrastructure.


The aproaches to Milano are however everything but crowded. Looking at the layout around Milano Centrale that station can have five departures and arrivals _simultaneously_. With a modern signalling system that would be possible even every two minutes... It currently has nowere near that traffic level.
The network around Milano is actually extremely over build. As it is in most parts of Italy...


Why should RFI, in whose tracks 60-70% of train*km traveled over, should confirm to Swiss norms and not the other way around?

Why should Trenitalia have a problem with interval timetables when they are already using them of their own volition?


They just assumed their path allocation system was too good to be messed by Italian demands, not directly in scheduling, but in other related areas like maintenance schedule etc.

The disagreements were more about Trenitalia not doing any preventive maintenance. As a regular traveller on the Gotthard I can see with my own eyes the difference between SBB maintained and Trenitalia maintained sets... Swiss trains also regularly get vandalised when overnighting in Italy.


And there were serious disagreements about revenue share on passengers using Trenitalia trains in Milano area with a TILO tickek.

There is no such thing as a "tilo ticket". Why would there be a problem?


TILO essentially wanted Trenitalia to carry passengers for free in Milano because it was so big and already run the trains, without a proper revenue-share agreement.

You are entirely wrong here.
Tickets for cross border trips were (and are) calculated by just adding the Swiss and the Italian parts together. And revenue SBB collects for the Italian part goes to Trenitalia, just like any other international ticket sale.

In fact, by not offering combined commuting passes the whole project is failing its aim, which is to encourage commuters from Italy to Switzerland to use public transport.

It is useless to say that Suburbanist is wrong (as usual...): the whole network north of Milan was reorganized in December 2008, with new timetables. They are obviously coordinated with SBB, but the first imput of this improvement was given by Lombardia region, which is performing well with regional transport (it is still not at a Swiss or German level, but Lomabrdia introduced 15 minutes headway on lines where up to 10 years ago there were no trains between 9 am and noon).

As for TILO, there are three kinds of services:
* the RegioExpress that leave Milan at minute 10, alternating with the EuroCity ex Cisalpino, that were initially planend as a pure internal service Milano-Como (or Milano-Como-Chiasso); but were later extended to Switzerland linking up existing services once separated (Milano-Como-Chiasso and Chiasso-Bellinzona) to give a direct service
* S10 Bellinzona-Como stopping service, totally subsidized by Switzerland also on Italian territory (even if Trenitalia earns money from tickets sold on the short Italian part, it pays anything)
* a single return trip Bellinzona-Luino-Busto Arsizio, which uses the regular interval structure of both countries

http://www.alptransit.ch/fileadmin/images/Stand_der_Arbeiten/GBT-Nordportal-Erstfeld-Ueberdeckung-Tagbautunnel.jpg

That large structure behind the digger looks like some kind of vent. Dunno why they'd need to have a vent so close to the tunnel entrance though. :wtf:

That large structure behind the digger looks like some kind of vent. Dunno why they'd need to have a vent so close to the tunnel entrance though. :wtf:

I would guess it is a pressure relief vent. Trains will enter this portal at 250kph after all.

update :)

Status of Work on the Gotthard and Ceneri (http://www.alptransit.ch/en/news/article/2011/10/05/bezeichnung/)

05.10.2011

In the Gotthard Base Tunnel, lining work in the Erstfeld, Sedrun and Faido sections is progressing according to plan. Installation of the 114.6 km invert is complete. Of the total of 114.6 km of vault, 108.607 km, or 95%, have been concreted.

http://www.alptransit.ch/typo3temp/pics/52c84191cd.jpg
Gotthard Base Tunnel, Bodio

Of the total of 39.78 km of the Ceneri Base Tunnel, at the end of September 2011, 14.78 km, or 37.2%, had been excavated. Concreting work continues in both tubes.

http://www.alptransit.ch/fileadmin/images/Stand_der_Arbeiten/Gesamt_GBT_e.gif
source (http://www.alptransit.ch/en/)

:okay:

The contractors are certainly getting on with the concrete lining work; there are few red (unlined) sections left now. :)

How much of the west tube is left to be lined?

I would say 4 km on the east and 1 km on the west, but probably less.

http://http://www.alptransit.ch/en/news/article/2011/11/03/bezeichnung/

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/11/23/gotthard.base.tunnel/

Not very informative put maybe interesting for those who don't know the project very well yet.

http://www.alptransit.ch/typo3temp/pics/sedrun-e_b42119aca9.gif

--------------------------------------------

http://www.alptransit.ch/typo3temp/pics/faido_e_85ec53ce92.gif

There's very little lining left to do on these sections of the tunnel now. :)

Bottlenecks located mainly in Italy are worrying Hupac, the main intermodal operator on the Gotthard railway.

The Luino line is the main route for unaccompanied combined transport (UCT) through Switzerland and a key element in the Rotterdam-Genoa freight transport corridor. So it is all the more astounding that international infrastructure development is increasingly ignoring it.

The strategic development of combined transport must consider various factors: the suitability of the railway lines to carry freight, the track capacity and quality, as well as the available terminal capacity. In the ongoing coordination process between Switzerland and Italy, a number of important aspects seem to have been disregarded.

The focus on the Chiasso line that can be seen among influential governmental and railway circles today is limiting the development prospects of the existing UCT system and pushing the intended benefits of the NEATinto the far distance. This is devaluing the investments already made in combined transport and calling modal shift policy into question.

Both are needed:
* moderate expansion of the Bellinzona-Luino-Novara line for existing traffic in the first phase
* and the establishment of a freight transport corridor via Chiasso-Seregno-Bergamo for future traffic in the second phase.

http://www.hupac.ch/index.php?node=413&lng=2&rif=3bd357c890&cnt=Cerca

http://www.hupac.ch/downdoc.php?id_doc=589&lng=1&rif=88dc5305b2

^^ what about investments in Germany? are they doing something? last time I checked they too were not doing their own fair share of work to get an efficient use of the new north-south axis.

Part of the new Karsruhe-Basel railway is already built or under construction, but the rest is delayed by NIMBYs who want the line to be built partly underground. Most of the new line is planned along the existing railway or motorway.

Apparently nearly two thirds of the tunnel tracks will be laid from the north.

http://www.alptransit.ch/typo3temp/pics/Einbaufortschritt_Bahntechnik_03_e0192d4f6c.jpg

Offene Strecke denotes the parts of the new or rebuilt line outside the tunnel (around 15 km in total), Temporäre Anlagen means temporary installations, Fahrbahn means tracks, the other are overhead lines, the signalling system, etc.

Apparently nearly two thirds of the tunnel tracks will be laid from the north.

^^ Thanks for your efforts with translation. It's a pity that the English version of that website doesn't have an English version of that graphic. :ohno:

any news on the alternatives going south from lugano to chiasso? heard there were 3 options.. havent heard anything in a while..

No, apparently Italy isn't willing to do anything (neither upgrading existing lines, like increasing clearance on the border-Luino-Novara line).

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_797027.html

The linked article has some good photos of the work in progress.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/339308/20120510/gotthard-base-tunnel-construction-pictures-ceneri.htm

^^
Thank you for the links! :okay: :popcorn: